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Speaker 1: The Cubs turn off season to do list. Trick Mooney

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Speaker 1: joining us right now and you can read all of

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Speaker 1: his articles about the Cubs and the athletic and listen

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Speaker 1: to Patrick along with Sahdib Sharma on North Side Territory.

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Speaker 1: Patrick Gate, to see you again, and let's do what

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Speaker 1: we do off season to do list before the Cubs,

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Speaker 1: lay out your three and then we'll ask your follow ups.

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Speaker 2: Sounds good, obviously, besides getting aj to sing the seventh

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Speaker 2: inning stretch at Wrigley Field next year, Yes, the top priority.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that should be number one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Letting show in Managa test the market is clearly a

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Speaker 2: sign that they want to do things differently. Their pitching

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Speaker 2: staff got a little exposed by the second round of

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Speaker 2: the playoffs. It was not good enough to keep advancing.

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Speaker 2: The other part of that is the rest of the

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Speaker 2: pitching staff. The bullpen has to be almost completely rebuilt.

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Speaker 4: That is what the Cubs like to do.

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Speaker 2: Though they don't like putting making huge investments in the

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Speaker 2: back end of the game.

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Speaker 4: They like taking chances.

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Speaker 2: They feel really good about their ability to identify talent.

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Speaker 2: They have an excellent manager in Craig Council. In terms

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Speaker 2: of putting those guys in positions to succeed, and obviously

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Speaker 2: they have Gold Globe defenders all over the field to

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Speaker 2: help those guys out. And then the final thing finding

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Speaker 2: ways to replace Kyle Tucker. Our assumption is that he

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Speaker 2: is likely going somewhere else. The Cubs are going to

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Speaker 2: monitor this, They're going to stay in touch. But if

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Speaker 2: Kyle Tucker gets what we thought was possible at the

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Speaker 2: beginning of the season, a decade long commitment, a contract

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Speaker 2: that begins with whatever three or four, that's just not

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Speaker 2: really how the Cubs operate.

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Speaker 4: So I would look for.

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Speaker 2: Them to kind of internally replace them then find different

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Speaker 2: ways to kind of cobble together that type of production.

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Speaker 5: All right, Patri, We're going to start at the top

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Speaker 5: upgrade the rotation they had showed up. They should get

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Speaker 5: Steel back, right, Tyane is there. Kate Horton was a

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Speaker 5: really nice rookie season, especially after the first game of

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Speaker 5: his career. I called and Craig Council didn't want him

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Speaker 5: to face the top of the Mets order of the start,

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Speaker 5: which I never figured out. Then this they came up

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Speaker 5: and the bases were loaded. He had to get out

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Speaker 5: of it. So but I mean, and then Tian's a

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Speaker 5: nice piece. They have pieces. What I don't understand is

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Speaker 5: why let Show to test the free agent market. He's

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Speaker 5: been good for him, He's you like Chicago, the fans

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Speaker 5: love him there. And then before we get into the

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Speaker 5: bullpen because I'm a hit on this now, well, they

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Speaker 5: spend the money that they need to really Upgary that rotation.

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Speaker 4: We'll start with Shoda, and that.

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Speaker 2: They did not want to make a three year commitment

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Speaker 2: right now. I believe it also would have given Shoda

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Speaker 2: a trade clause. He was just sort of a little

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Speaker 2: lost at the end of this year. I mean, them

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Speaker 2: not using him in a Nation game in Milwaukee kind

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Speaker 2: of told you everything you needed to know about what

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Speaker 2: they thought of him in that moment. I still think,

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Speaker 2: you know, the qualifying offer is a possibility. I also think,

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Speaker 2: like Showda's overall body of work is outstanding, and this.

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Speaker 4: Is something that if you.

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Speaker 2: Mentioned to the Cubs officials will probably cringe or roll

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Speaker 2: their eyes. I still think shoud have brought something in

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Speaker 2: terms of charisma, in terms of entertainment value, just the

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Speaker 2: way he competed, the joy he showed on the mound.

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Speaker 2: That there are and tangible things that you know he

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Speaker 2: can bring. But ultimately it's whatever the model told the

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Speaker 2: Cubs right of they see a guy in his early

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Speaker 2: thirties creeping toward his mid thirties. They love keeping their

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Speaker 2: options open, and they're gonna have There's a good class

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Speaker 2: of free agent pictures out there, and I think they'd

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Speaker 2: rather just sort of maintain flexibility rather than committing to

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Speaker 2: show to write this second.

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Speaker 1: And I would think that Shoda isn't pleased when an

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Speaker 1: option is not picked up. It's not going to help

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Speaker 1: your pause because the team is telling him we don't

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Speaker 1: think you're worth this, Perhaps you're worth less than this.

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Speaker 1: That's usually a tough sell. If I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you this, because we had a good debate the other day.

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Speaker 1: AJ Kratz me about his twenty twenty five season and

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Speaker 1: what you would do. You watched every pitch? Right, We

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Speaker 1: watch a lot, but we don't get every single pitch

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Speaker 1: of Showa Amanaga. What did you see this year versus

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four? Did the league adjust? Did the stuff

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Speaker 1: get worse? We see the peripherals like the home runs

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Speaker 1: up and strikeouts down a lot. So did the Cubs

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Speaker 1: make the right call in your mind to not give

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Speaker 1: him that type of contract and you have to assume

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Speaker 1: at that point that he is gone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I think part of this was.

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Speaker 2: The concerns that the baseball industry had when he was

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Speaker 2: leaving Japan started to and that's what you're alluding to,

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Speaker 2: Scott of the home runs of if he loses a

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Speaker 2: little bit of oomph on that fastball, if he gets

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Speaker 2: a little predictable. I think from showed his side, they

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Speaker 2: can say that he had a a lower half injury

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Speaker 2: that may have disrupted his rhythm, didn't quite get all

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Speaker 2: the way back there, and this was just really his

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Speaker 2: first time dealing with this at the major league level.

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Speaker 2: That he had been so good at staying ahead of

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Speaker 2: hitters that he kept winning that cat and mouse game

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Speaker 2: and just caught up to him at the absolute worst time.

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Speaker 2: Like if he had that bad month in April, maybe

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Speaker 2: the Cubs would have picked that up, that three year commitment,

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Speaker 2: because I do think we go through this all the

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Speaker 2: time of teams say, man, you can never have enough pitching,

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Speaker 2: and then they get to the trade deadline, it's like, wow,

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Speaker 2: those prices are way too expensive to go get a

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Speaker 2: controllable starting pitcher that just didn't makes sense, and then

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Speaker 2: in October, you're pitching gets exposed. But then there's a

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Speaker 2: whole new crop of free agents and then you know,

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Speaker 2: the front offices, their imaginations start working, and then usually

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Speaker 2: by like day three or the GM mating, some crazy

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Speaker 2: pitching deal kind of goes across our Twitter screens. So

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Speaker 2: I'm really interested to see, like where this market goes,

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Speaker 2: not just for Shoda but for the Cubs. Maybe it

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Speaker 2: is a picture who's coming over from Japan. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they've been invested heavily in that market to establish relationships.

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Speaker 2: They have good contacts there. I think Showda kind of

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Speaker 2: falls into that bucket of talented but kind of flawed pictures.

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Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot of maybe there's like a

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Speaker 2: dozen guys like that who had been excellent at times

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Speaker 2: but who are coming off of down moments.

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Speaker 4: And then we'll see, you know, whether they can guess

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Speaker 4: right this time.

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Speaker 6: Is it time to move like they moved with Tucker.

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Speaker 6: But in the rotation, do you see the Cubs saying,

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Speaker 6: you know what, Trek Scoball, wouldn't cost us that much

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Speaker 6: to move from Detroit to Chicago. Do you see them

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Speaker 6: making a big splash to upgrade their rotation.

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Speaker 2: They're definitely gonna check back on the pitching market. I

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Speaker 2: don't see Jed Hoyer and Scott Harris are longtime friends,

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Speaker 2: they work together very closely. They see the game in

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Speaker 2: similar terms. I have a hard time seeing them lining

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Speaker 2: up for a deal. But last summer, I mean, the

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Speaker 2: Cubs were asked about Mackenzie, gor Joe Ryan, the Marlins pitchers.

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Speaker 2: I think they're almost certainly going to circle back in

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Speaker 2: those directions. You know, some of those teams have undergone changes,

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Speaker 2: whether it was you know, the Nationals having a new leader,

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Speaker 2: base operations, the Twins no longer being up for sale.

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Speaker 2: I think kind of what worked against Showdy here was

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Speaker 2: the Cubs have a decent amount of pitching depth. Now,

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Speaker 2: I mean we went through some of those names at

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Speaker 2: the top of this segment, but I think to Eric's

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Speaker 2: point of like, yeah, this is a chance to go

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Speaker 2: go for upside, whatever that is, however you think you

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Speaker 2: can get it, you know, now is the time to

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Speaker 2: at least see rather than locking in three years a showedup.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, then let's go to your next point. The bullpen.

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Speaker 5: They already came out and said they're not going to

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Speaker 5: spend money on any of the top bullpen arms. So

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Speaker 5: they're just hoping and Palencia and some of these other

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Speaker 5: guys can just come through for them, and then at

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Speaker 5: the midway point they'll make trades and see what happens.

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Speaker 5: Are they bargain shopping again. And by the way, this

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Speaker 5: is still the Cubs. They still make a ton of

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Speaker 5: money and they do not spend like a big market team.

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Speaker 5: So please, if you are listening, Ricketts family, spend your

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Speaker 5: money on players.

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Speaker 3: Please. This is coming from a White Sox fan.

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Speaker 2: I would say the Cubs are completely open minded in

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Speaker 2: terms of hunting for good deals. So they are not

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Speaker 2: going to give a reliever like a four year deal

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Speaker 2: around Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 4: That's just not how they operate.

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Speaker 2: They do not think that is a good way to

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Speaker 2: spend their resources, which are ample but maybe not commensurate

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Speaker 2: with the Wrigleyville machine that you see aja every time

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Speaker 2: you come in for a National TV game. So look,

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Speaker 2: I think Devin Williams could make sense. There's a good

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Speaker 2: connection there with Craig Counsel. I think having an established

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Speaker 2: closer yet that if he's looking for a bounce back

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Speaker 2: type deal, a nice platform to go try and save

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Speaker 2: fifty games for playoff contender. Sure, but like you're giving

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Speaker 2: a reliever like a six year, one hundred million dollar deal, that's.

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Speaker 4: That's just not how they operate.

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Speaker 2: And this is an area where I do think they

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Speaker 2: get a little bit of the benefit of the doubt.

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Speaker 2: Like Drew palmeranz was sitting on his couch last year

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Speaker 2: thinking he was done in the game, and he wound up.

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Speaker 4: Being a huge part of their pen.

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Speaker 2: Caleb Steelbar was not a name that really animated people

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Speaker 2: last offseason. He became extremely valuable. A Brad Keller a

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Speaker 2: minor league deal. He's probably gonna get paid pretty well

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Speaker 2: this year. I don't think the Cubs would rule bringing

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Speaker 2: any of those guys out. But they're just gonna have

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Speaker 2: a limit. They're gonna have a strategy and a philosophy

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Speaker 2: that they're not going to waiver from very much.

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Speaker 6: Mhm, just mediocre moves that turned out to be really

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Speaker 6: neat Patrick, right, right, I mean yeah, I mean, so

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Speaker 6: they're not gonna rebuild the bullpen.

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Speaker 3: They're just gonna.

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Speaker 2: They're gonna throw a lot of this stuff against the

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Speaker 2: wall and see what's six.

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Speaker 6: And this is why they spent this is why ownership said,

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Speaker 6: you know, what we will spend on Craig, And I'm

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Speaker 6: sure that was probably one of the big selling points.

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Speaker 6: You look at what Craig's done with the DFA bullpen

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Speaker 6: up North, Well, you know what else that DFA bullpen had.

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Speaker 6: They had four starters that went the seventh inning. They

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Speaker 6: had a closer that was closer of the year, reliever

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Speaker 6: of the year four straight years between Hayter and Devin Williams. Like,

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Speaker 6: they basically had to find Craig counsel up there, had

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Speaker 6: to find two innings. He had to find two innings,

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Speaker 6: and he's like, oh, he's a masterpiece anyway. So if

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Speaker 6: we're not gonna spend money, we're gonna go to AJ's

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Speaker 6: favorite movie and we're gonna go in the aggregate. How

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Speaker 6: are we going to replace Kyle Tucker? Because you don't

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Speaker 6: replace Kyle Tucker. The only way you get Kyle Tucker

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Speaker 6: is because you gave up Esach Paradis, you gave up

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Speaker 6: Cam Smith, and you got a aircraft carrier for your team.

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Speaker 6: Most teams that do this, besides the Orioles and the Cubs.

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Speaker 6: Now you make a big move like that because you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna keep that guy Obviously, the Cubs were never

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Speaker 6: gonna keep Kyle Tucker. He had a great year. Some

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Speaker 6: fans will say, oh, he tailed off at the end, He's.

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Speaker 4: Not worth it.

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Speaker 6: I would say, fuuy on that. How do they replace him?

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Speaker 6: Where do they start?

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Speaker 2: You would start with Saya Suzuki playing right field, which.

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Speaker 4: Isn't a bad place to start.

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Speaker 2: You would have as sort of a floor or as

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Speaker 2: a worst case scenario, you'd have two young hitters and

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Speaker 2: Moistus Biasteros and Owen Casey, two left handed hitters that

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Speaker 2: would give you some flexibility. And then yeah, like if

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Speaker 2: we're gonna keep ruling out ways that the Comes are

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Speaker 2: going to spend money, they have to spend it somewhere,

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Speaker 2: and so maybe that is an interesting position player elsewhere,

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Speaker 2: whether it's circling back to Bregman, whether it's a hitter

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Speaker 2: out of Japan like there are I think this is

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Speaker 2: how they look at It's the Craig Council. I'm using

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Speaker 2: the air quotes here solving for wins, like they have

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Speaker 2: no sort of like core philosophy in terms of like

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Speaker 2: oh we have to get that player, or like we

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Speaker 2: are one piece away.

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Speaker 4: That is just not how they look at it.

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Speaker 2: And we'll see if they can replace first half Kyle Tucker.

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Speaker 2: Second half Kyle Tucker was you know it was you

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Speaker 2: eat to hear the silence in terms of like beginning

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Speaker 2: of the year, the thing you heard, and that really

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Speaker 2: kind of went away. And I don't think there's that

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Speaker 2: sort of pressure on ownership or pressure on front office

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Speaker 2: to sign this guy right.

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Speaker 4: Now to like a ten year deal.

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Speaker 2: And what the Cubs will do is what they've done

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Speaker 2: the last several off seasons, is they'll stay in touch

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Speaker 2: with everyone.

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Speaker 4: They'll see where the.

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Speaker 2: Market goes, they'll react, and then you get to spring

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Speaker 2: training and there's probably gonna be several good players still

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Speaker 2: out there and the Cubs will be one of the

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Speaker 2: few teams left in that mix. That's why we saw

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Speaker 2: with Bregman, we saw with them bringing back Cody Bellinger.

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Speaker 4: We saw it several years ago with you Darvish.

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Speaker 2: Like like it or not, that's just how they run

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Speaker 2: their business.

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Speaker 3: So they're looking for bargains, is what you're Basically what.

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Speaker 5: You're saying is yeah, I mean they're just you just

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Speaker 5: say that, and I understand that, I mean I get it.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's the way some teams do it.

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Speaker 4: But I'm not spending it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, no, I'm not saying you're defending it

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Speaker 5: at all. That's what I'm saying, though, is why trade

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Speaker 5: for Tucker if you're not going to even you know, try.

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Speaker 5: It's like the old Red Sox that we always used

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Speaker 5: to make fun of Lasco.

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Speaker 3: Oh wait, well you were in on this guy.

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Speaker 5: Oh we'll we tried, fans, right, Oh we tried, but

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Speaker 5: oh you know what, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 5: we just don't have enough money. But come get your

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Speaker 5: twenty dollars beer in the bleachers and we'll keep doing

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Speaker 5: that and we'll keep having you know, so and so

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Speaker 5: sing the seventh inning stretch Chris Cellos and Eddie Vedder

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Speaker 5: every day.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 5: But here's the thing for me, the Cubs have the

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Speaker 5: core I feel like to make a deep run in

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Speaker 5: the postseason. Right, they shouldn't be losing in the I know,

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Speaker 5: they won the wildcard round, so I'll give them that.

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Speaker 5: You know, they shouldn't be losing in the DS. Maybe

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Speaker 5: they should be going for it because you know, I know,

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Speaker 5: twenty sixteen is ten years ago now, but they proved

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Speaker 5: when they go out and spend the money correctly and

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Speaker 5: they get a Lackey, and they get a lester, and

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Speaker 5: they get a hay Word, and they get some extra Fowler,

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Speaker 5: and they get some of these guys.

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Speaker 3: It can put you on the next level. And they

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Speaker 3: did that with Swanson, right, But that's really sorry. Excuse me.

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Speaker 3: It makes makes my stomach shirt when I'm talking about this.

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Speaker 5: But when they do these things, it's been proven that

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Speaker 5: it works. So why are they so resistant to going

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Speaker 5: out and making these movie?

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Speaker 3: That's what. That's what.

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Speaker 5: As a baseball fan, I look at this and I,

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Speaker 5: as you mentioned, when I go in to these games,

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Speaker 5: it's packed, right, Every bar and restaurant around Wregleyville is packed.

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Speaker 5: Every rooftop they own is packed, The hotel owns packed,

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Speaker 5: the McDonald's is back. Everything is packed. And then they're like, oh,

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Speaker 5: we can't spend, And I'm like, wait, why not. That's

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Speaker 5: why I think this bothers me so much.

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Speaker 2: For a white Sox guy, I think you absolutely tapped

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Speaker 2: into the frustration of the huge, the vast majority of

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Speaker 2: Cubs fans. And You're right, the lesson in twenty sixteen

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Speaker 2: was not just elite young talent. It was going out

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Speaker 2: and spending for proven veterans and championship caliber players to

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Speaker 2: put you over the top. And if you listen to

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Speaker 2: the Cubs over the years, it seems like a lot

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Speaker 2: of sort of pointing at you know, Jason Hayward's contract,

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Speaker 2: or you know, we're still paying John Lester part of

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Speaker 2: his signing bonus, Like that's like that seems to be

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Speaker 2: they're just so afraid of being kind of hampered by

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Speaker 2: long term contracts in the future. I will say, though,

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Speaker 2: like they're in a better place to make that argument

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Speaker 2: now of building off a ninety ish win team that

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Speaker 2: does not have a ton of huge holes versus them

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Speaker 2: making that argument when they were losing ninety games a year.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they will surprise us otherwise, you know where to go.

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Speaker 1: North Side Territory event, good mailbag segments.

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Speaker 5: Any time you need me as a guest to to,

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Speaker 5: I would love to just you know, I'm always definitely

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Speaker 5: white for Cubs, for Cubs fans, for their they need

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Speaker 5: a counselor I'm here for you Cub fans.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Patrick, great to have you back on. Appreciate

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Speaker 1: the time is always and great work on north Side.

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Speaker 4: You got a guys stick care you too.

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Speaker 1: North Side territory with Patrick and Zaidi Sharma. It is

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Speaker 1: part of the FT Network. Half of the thirty teams

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Speaker 1: are covered on the FT Network these days and you

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Speaker 1: can also read Zadev and Ann Patrick in the Athletic