1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and you're listening the stuff mom 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: ever told you. Now, today's episode is a little bit 3 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: of a heavy topic I just want to address right 4 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: up front. It's about death and dying. Today we're talking 5 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: about how you go through the process of grieving when 6 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: you lose a parent or a loved one. Now, there's 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: a ton of research out there about the negative impacts 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: losing a parent hasn't a child, but actually not that 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: much on how it impacts adults. Now. I think that's 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: because losing a parent is kind of considered to be 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: a normal rite of passage for going into adult life. 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: But it almost seems to mean there should be more 13 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: research and for all dealing with this. Not less. One 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: theory for there so little research was posited in by 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: TALCT persons. He basically theorized that when we get married, 16 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: we become less attached to our parents. But this is 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: actually not true, as research in the United States during 18 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: the last forty years pretty much refuted the idea that 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: Americans radically disconnect or abandoned their parents married or not. Now, 20 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: what we do know is that men and women tend 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: to grieve differently. According to Thomas Becker from the Green 22 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: Bay Center for Oncology. Men tend to grieve by picking 23 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: up some new tasks, skill or responsibility, laundry or cooking. 24 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: Men really channel their grief into tasks. Women, on the 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: other hand, tend to be a little more emotional. They 26 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: work out their grief by talking about it. They tell 27 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: their story over and over again because that helps them 28 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: process how they're feeling. He writes that women confide in 29 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: friends outwardly expressed their feelings and emotions to feel their 30 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: way through grief. Furthermore, rather than focusing on fixing it 31 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: or problem solving, women look towards connection and perspective to 32 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,279 Speaker 1: work through their grief. The feminine approach to grief, he writes, 33 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: might find you reaching out the people to share your thoughts, 34 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: stories and feelings. Looking into the research on women and grieving, 35 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: I was really struck by the idea that women work 36 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: through grief by sharing stories and their feelings. That's why 37 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: I was so taken with Molly Guy. Now I always 38 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: bew Molly as it's really cool lady on the Internet. 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,919 Speaker 1: Vogue dot Com contributing editor and the founder and creative 40 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 1: director of Stone Fox Bride, perfect Hair, great clothes, that 41 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: kind of effortlessly cool and y C life I've always wanted. 42 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: When her father passed away, she began sharing intimate images 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: and stories of his life on Instagram, calling it a 44 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: digital diary about life, death, and dad's and as a 45 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: lifelong daddy's girl, I was hooked. I've talked briefly on 46 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: the show about having me a chronically ill parent and 47 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: living in fear that one day he won't be around. 48 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: And when I saw Molly's project on Instagram, it stopped 49 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: me mid scroll. It forced me to confront reality. I 50 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: almost never let myself acknowledge one day I'll be grieving 51 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: my own father. Some of the things Molly shares are 52 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: sweet and mundane. A picture of her and her dad 53 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: having a meal with a touching caption about how much 54 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: he loved Chicago summer, gut wrenching, and unflinchingly honest. In 55 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: one post, she shares an image of her father on 56 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: a hospital bed. The caption recalls that someone else's sick 57 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: father was in the hospital room next to her own. 58 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: She reveals that during her devastation, she asked God why 59 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: her dad had died, and the dad in the next 60 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: room did not. Through this digital archive of her grief. 61 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: Molly is using Instagram to show the world with this 62 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: process really looks like. Sometimes it looks sweet and touching, 63 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: other times it looks like cataloging the odd little things 64 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: about your loved one that you just don't want to forget. 65 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: And sometimes it's just plain angry. We will hear from 66 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: Molly after this quick break. Molly, thank you so much 67 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: for being here today. Thank you so much for having 68 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: me Bridget. I've been touching honor to be a guest 69 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: on your show. I asked up a question for you. Yeah, 70 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: please me start with my question. I'm so sorry to 71 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: hear that your dad is chronically Oh yeah, can you 72 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: tell me about what's going on with your dad? Yeah, 73 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: I'm thank you for asking. Um. I don't talk about 74 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: my dad very often, mostly because it's difficult, and it's 75 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: one of those things where I have not fully let 76 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: myself deal with what it means. I think for a 77 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: lot of heavy emotional reasons. You know. Part of it is, 78 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: I've spent most of my life as a young person 79 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: being a you know, going out and going to school 80 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: and getting a job and moving around, and I feel 81 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: like so much of your twenties are kind of your 82 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: sort of it's sort of encouraged to be a bit narcissistic, 83 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: and I've definitely done that. And when I found out 84 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: my dad was ill, that was the first time that 85 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: I had this sort of think about what that meant 86 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: in a larger sense. I had not even thought about 87 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 1: what that meant, because you just assume that you get 88 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: forever with your parents. You don't even think about it. 89 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: And so my dad has a chronic illness called sarka doosis. 90 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: It's very rare. It's that it's the illness that Bernie Mack, 91 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: the comedian died from. Um And you know, my dad 92 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: is my best friend. He's the reason that I am 93 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: who I am. He so much of me as him, 94 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: we could not be more similar. But also, so, how 95 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: how old were you when you're when he was diagnosed? 96 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: And what are his symptoms? So my dad was diagnosed, 97 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: it's kind of it's kind of a funky story. My 98 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: dad was ill for a while, and you know, I 99 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: kind of as a kid, I kind of knew something 100 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: was up, but it didn't become a real thing that 101 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: we dealt with in an explicit way as a family 102 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: until I was in my mid twenties. And the way 103 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: that the way that we kind of came to terms 104 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: with this was when I was in graduate school at 105 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: the time and we found out that my dad was 106 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: very sick and that in order to save his life 107 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: he needed a liver transplant, and my brother, I have 108 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: an older brother, he offered his liver to my dad. 109 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: And so the way that it came to be like 110 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: a family situation that we were all dealing with was 111 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: through the fact that my brother was going to be 112 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: donating a liver to my dad. And so up until 113 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: that point, my parents sort of quietly held this burden 114 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: away from us because they thought, you know, he'll get better. 115 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: We'll fight this well, we'll we'll deal with we'll we'll 116 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: bring them in. We'll bring the kids into this when 117 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: they need to be brought and so, you know, as 118 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: you know, but this time, I was a teenager for 119 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: a lot of this time I went to college. I 120 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: think I I didn't really I didn't really grapple with it. 121 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: I knew there were signs of like my dad coughed 122 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: a lot. He often would have like intense coughing fits 123 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: when he would travel or work a lot. He would 124 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: be you know, down for the count for a very 125 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: long time, and I always sort of thought like, oh, 126 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: this is normal, this is not unusual. And it wasn't 127 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: until my parents said, you know, he needs this this 128 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: surgery that I realized my my dad is chronically ill. 129 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: And I had not sort of let myself deal with 130 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: that until that moment. And so for me, it was 131 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: this like shattering thing where everything I thought about my parents, 132 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: you know, this idea that your parents are just gonna 133 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: be there forever, I had to kind of accept like, 134 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: this is that's not real, you you know, and there's 135 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: this this this sounds very strange, but there's this um 136 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: website where I mean, it sounds so morbid, but you 137 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: can calculate, you know, if you visit home x times 138 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: a month and your parents are x x years old, 139 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: they can calculate based on you know, the average span 140 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: of life or an adult man an adult woman in America, 141 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: they can say, if you visit home x times a month, 142 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: that means that you'll see your parents this many times 143 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: before they die. And that sounds very morbid. So the 144 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: website is called see your Folks dot Com and you 145 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,679 Speaker 1: put in what country your parents live in on average, 146 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: how many times a year do you see your parents? 147 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: How old is your mom? How old is your dad? 148 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: And it calculates, you know, if you're visiting home this 149 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: time many times a month, this is how many times 150 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: you'll probably see your parents again based on those numbers. Wow, Okay, 151 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: I'm sunny this to my siblings right now. Yeah, it really. 152 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: I mean the tagline on the site says, we're so 153 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: busy growing sometimes that we forget that they're also growing old. 154 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: And I think that really struck me because I just 155 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: I didn't think about it. I did it never even 156 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: It sounds so narcissistic and so dumb, but I didn't 157 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: even think about it. And you know, I was that. 158 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: I was that sibling who, like, I'm the youngest, I'm 159 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: the sibling who like went off to the city to 160 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: go build a cookie life full of cookie characters. And 161 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: that's been a part of my identity. But you kind 162 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: of it's easy to forget those people in your life 163 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: that ground you when you're busy going off building that 164 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: life you know, completely identify with that I am. Your 165 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: story is very similar to mine. My dad got diagnosed 166 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: with um something called poly semia vera in I was 167 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: in college. I was it was the UM, I think 168 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: my junior year in college or my sophomore year in college. 169 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: My dad, I think at the time, was like fifty 170 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: two or fifty three and perfect health as far as 171 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: I'm know, and like a very um a person who 172 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: really like radiated and projected perfect health. He was six six, 173 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: he was like an all star basketball player in college. UM, 174 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: he was a tennis player. He never took six days. 175 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: He was president of his real estate company. He ate 176 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: really well. UM, he'd never complained about his health ever, 177 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: and he started to talk about how his his his 178 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: fingers had were tingling, and like, who wants to hear 179 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: your parents talk complain about their health when you're nineteen 180 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: years old. I wasn't paying a lot of attention, but UM, 181 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: I do remember at some point that summer my mom 182 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: saying that my dad had been diagnosed with this rare 183 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: form of this rare blood disease. And we went to 184 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: New York to visit my sister who was fresh out 185 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: of college, and my mom and I shared a hotel 186 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: room when we woke up one morning, and I remember 187 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: seeing her mascara all over the pillow because she had 188 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: been crying. And UM. The next twenty years my dad 189 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,719 Speaker 1: left his his real estate, his corporate real estate job. 190 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: He started the MPN Foundation, which was dead if there 191 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: was no one really knew very much about the blood 192 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: cancer that he had. He UM in his mid fifties 193 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: devoted his his career to UM, raising money to fund 194 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: scientific research in the name of MPN Milo per per 195 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: Milo perip proliferative neoplasms UM. He ended up raising twenty 196 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: million dollars by the time that he died. And but 197 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: his disease was very much on the periphery of my life. 198 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: He was for the most part pretty asymptomatic, and the 199 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: symptoms that he had I didn't really want to know about. 200 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: I was very much kind of in denial and UM. 201 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: There were some times, you know, he took a range 202 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: of different drugs he had with There were you know, 203 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 1: periods of times where he would have to have lobotomies 204 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: at the hospital, or where he would have to inject himself, 205 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: where he was on interfere on um, where he was 206 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: on different because it had different side effects. But UM, 207 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: I never wanted to know about it very much. I 208 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: was very much UM not a part of my life 209 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: at all. And I mean I I totally identify with 210 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: what you said about like the narcissism of your twenties. 211 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: My life was very much about my life and my drama. 212 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: And I didn't want to ask. I mean, I sort 213 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: of perfunctor released at Dad, how's your health? But I 214 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: didn't really want to know. And um, after I had 215 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: a baby and started my own business, I joined the 216 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: board of my dad's nonprofit. I thought maybe I could 217 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: help him do some marketing work, which I did, and 218 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: but I would always say, you know, I don't know 219 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: anything about the science, and I don't know. I can't 220 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:47,599 Speaker 1: really keep up with the scientific research. It's not my specialty. Um. 221 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: But this summer, my dad's disease progressed really quickly, and 222 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: he asked my sister and my mom and my uncle 223 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: and I had to meet to come with him to 224 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: meet with the stem cell transplant specialist in New York. 225 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: And we did, and he was feeling sick at that time, 226 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: and the specialist said that his disease was on the 227 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: verge of converting to leukemia and he would need a transplant, 228 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: and boom, I mean, he died four months later. And 229 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: in those four months, he went from being you know, 230 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: my super like virile, happy, healthy dad to like a 231 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: really sick, pretty sick guy, and um, it's it didn't 232 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: really hit me. So that was late August when it 233 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: was decided that he would have a Densall transplant, And 234 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: this procedure was really sold to us as being sort 235 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: of fool proof mortality rate due to complications. But I mean, 236 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: who thinks. I mean, that seemed like a complete you know, 237 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: it seemed like a no brainer, like who gets a 238 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: fifteen percent complication? And and two months later, my dad 239 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: will not responding to the chemo and was still really sick. 240 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: And there was this one day we had a doctor's 241 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: appointment where she mentioned something on October where I realized 242 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: that there was a good possibility that he could die. 243 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: And I think that was like probably the worst day 244 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: of my life. It had seriously never occurred to me 245 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: before that my dad could die, and had never really 246 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: like I had never really felt the possibility that he 247 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: could die until then. That was only a few months ago, 248 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: and UM, him and I heard those words together. We 249 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: were in the uber car together. We UM had lunch 250 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: together afterwards, and UM, that night I asked my friend 251 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: Rachel to come over and Mike sit with me. We 252 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: watched my cousin Venet together, just because I felt like 253 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: I needed to. I mean, I was so scared. It 254 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: was like the weirdest feeling I think throughout all of this, 255 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: that was the worst day ever to the stay. Um. 256 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I never had never occurred to 257 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: me that my dad was going to get old and die. 258 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: It sounds so silly. I mean, it's like you could 259 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: have heard I mean, I've heard this line a hundred times, 260 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: like Nicholas Sparkes book or a movie. But um, it 261 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: just didn't seem applicable to anything in my life that 262 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: my dad would that my dad's body would fail him. 263 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: I identify with that so much. I think that you know, 264 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: you look back at these pictures of your loved one, 265 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, for you, your father, and it's it's something 266 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: about it seems like they're going to be there forever. 267 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: It's I mean, I you you posted something on your Instagram. 268 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: It was a picture of your dad when he was 269 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: a bit younger, and how it didn't occur to you 270 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: that you know, he was human in a kind of way. 271 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: And having to confront as our parents get older, get sick, 272 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: get ill, their bodies fail having to confront that this 273 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: image that we've built that they're going to live forever, 274 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: will always have them in our lives. We can take 275 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: them for granted. It's it's just sort of one day 276 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: that that mass comes off and you see it for 277 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: the reality, and it's just think, how could I have 278 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: thought for so long? I mean, I think if we 279 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: were to really grasp that reality when it was presented 280 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: to us, that we we wouldn't go on. So, you know, 281 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: my kids now are very aware of death. I have 282 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: two daughters, their three and six, and ever since my 283 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: dad dies Grandpa be they're sort of fascinated by death. 284 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: And I bought a lot of books off Amazon. I'm 285 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: talking about death with kids, and they love to now 286 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: like pretend they're dead and talk about death all the time. 287 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: And their new favorite thing is to ask me, are 288 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: you going to die? And like when I google what 289 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: to say, that says that you should say I have 290 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: no plans to die. But everyone dies, so I say, 291 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: I have no plans to die anytime soon. And my 292 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: job is I'm going to stay here and protect you 293 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: and keep you safe and we're going to be a family. 294 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: You know, my my job is my plans are to 295 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: stay here and protect you guys and keep us together 296 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: as a family and in our home or whatever. Did 297 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: I say. If my children were to truly grasp in 298 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: this moment that I was going to drop dead one day, 299 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: I mean, whether or not it's going to be today, 300 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: or whether or not, God willing, it's going to be 301 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: fifty eight years from today, there would be I mean, 302 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: they would drop, they would break there, They would implode, 303 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: you know, as would I if I were to. I mean, 304 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: if I were to look at a crystal ball in 305 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: August when this stem cell transplant specialist told me that, 306 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: you know there's a fift mortality rate. Ifight a crystal 307 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: ball and could see what the next four months had 308 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: in store for me, I would have imploded that. I mean, 309 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: I don't think I once heard um a war reporter. 310 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: I think it was the Beast and Younger talk about 311 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: how are we have like a built in forgetter in 312 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: our d n as, and how any time he's gone 313 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: to a war zone to report on a war he 314 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: has always said, I will never do this again, he said, 315 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: he calls his wife. I mean, this was twenty years ago. 316 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: I think when I heard him, and she's crying and saying, 317 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: how can you do this? But you have to come home. 318 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: We can't. I can't do this without you. I don't 319 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: even know you know, come home, come home to the kids. 320 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: And he's I, I will never do this again. But 321 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: six months later he goes back and he reports again. 322 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: And I've also heard from women who give birth. I mean, 323 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: I've done it twice say you know that I will 324 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: never this is so painful. I will never do this again. 325 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: I mean, there's something about our bodies where I don't 326 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: I think we are only able to process, to process 327 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: a little bit of information at a time. Um. The 328 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: same with grief. I mean, after my dad died, I have, 329 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: you know, very strange physical symptoms from stomach aids, sinus infections. 330 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: I couldn't open my mind. I had like my jaw 331 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: locked up for a couple of weeks. I mean, I 332 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: just it's too there's it's too intellectually, it's too hard 333 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: to comprehend. My mom keeps saying she still thinks he's 334 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: coming home, And I said, I think that's great. I 335 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: hope that you think that for the next twenty years. 336 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: God forbid, what you what you know? Your body is 337 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: going to shut down if you stopped thinking that. Yeah, 338 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: I think that when it comes to dealing with grief, 339 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: our bodies just be this vessel, whether it's it's these 340 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: physical symptoms that you never thought would manifest themselves that way, 341 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: or sort of our brains tricking us into thinking that, 342 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: you know, tricking us into forgetting how precious and how 343 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: fragile life is, just so that we can live, because 344 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: who would who would go like you said, who would 345 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: go through a day if you knew that everyone that 346 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: was important to you could Could you know, die tomorrow? 347 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: How could you go to work? How could you feed 348 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: your kids? How do you take a shower? How could 349 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: you live your life? Right? I mean, how could we 350 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, this is a different podcast. How could we 351 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: send our children to school knowing? I mean there's eighteen 352 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: doors on my kids school and none of them lock, 353 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: knowing that at any minute, you know, with a bigger 354 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: school of the main thoroughfare of Brooklyn, New York, that 355 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: someone could burst in with and there's no laws to 356 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: protect them. I mean, we have we we in order 357 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: to exist in the world, we have to put blinders 358 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: on rose tinted glasses twenty four hours of the day, 359 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: you know. So, I mean it's like it's not like 360 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: we're fed a lie when we're kids. But there's no 361 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: I mean, years old, I heard I sat in doctor's 362 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: appointments with my dad for four months while they said 363 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: there's a very good chance, you know, there's a chance 364 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: that you're not going to survive this procedure, Mr Rosa. 365 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: And it never occurred to me until he was very 366 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: close to death that he was going to die. This 367 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: was not on my radar. I could not intellectually process it. 368 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: I couldn't like thematically process it. I couldn't spiritually understand 369 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: it probably until I mean his body was lowered into 370 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,479 Speaker 1: the ground. I mean, that's exactly. I mean, that's one 371 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: of the reasons why I wanted to do this episode, 372 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: because I feel like I'm in that place where, you know, 373 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: even if my dad didn't have an illness, everyone dies. 374 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: But when it's someone that we just rely on, that 375 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: like they're always going to be there, and that's a 376 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: blanket thing. We don't even really feel that until they're 377 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: not there, and it's just it's it's fascinating how our 378 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: brains let us think this thing that is irrational it's like, 379 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: that's that's that's an irrational thought that my dad's gonna 380 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: live forever. Nobody I'm not gonna live forever. Nobody lives forever. 381 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,959 Speaker 1: I genuinely like it took a lot for me to 382 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: accept that my parents won't be there one day. And 383 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: I think, you know, part and I think part of 384 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: it is talking about grief, like when someone is grieving, 385 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's almost I think it was Cheryl Sandberg 386 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: who wrote this that when her husband died, people almost 387 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: seem like they don't want to touch you, as if 388 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: it as if loss and grief is is contagious, and 389 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: we don't talk about grief. You don't see grief. And 390 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: I think that's part of it. It's we we are 391 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: able to live in this fantasy that no one we 392 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: love is going to die and it's not true. And 393 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: I think what you're doing with your projects on Instagram, 394 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: where you're showing what grief looks like. Sometimes it looks 395 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: like anger, sometimes it looks like this, and it looks 396 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 1: like that. Like it's projects like that that help us 397 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: come to terms with reality and in a lot of 398 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: ways put some nice thank you. Last night, I was 399 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: reading to my kid's grief is like a snowflake, and 400 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: it's this like sort of profound book about uh, these 401 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: four Christmas trees and and the little Christmas trees. Dad 402 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: is gets chopped down and he wants to know where 403 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: his dad has gone, and the mom says she gets 404 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: taken away. He's been taken away. And there's all these 405 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: different pictures of like trees with different faces about how 406 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: they feel now that the tree has been taken away. 407 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: My daughter pointed to two different faces and she said, 408 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: this is how I feel now that Grandpa be is dead. 409 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: And there wasn't an angry face and a dad's face. 410 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: And I was like wow, And you know, I was 411 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: thinking to myself, I guess I've done something right if 412 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: she can. First of all, I was like very impressed 413 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: that she pointed out to the faces and she could 414 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: communicate that, but that she like even was able to 415 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: communicate that she was angry. But um, yeah, there are 416 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: so many feelings that come along with this the pain 417 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: of this loss, and one of them is anger. I 418 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: mean I have a lot of anger towards irrational I 419 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,959 Speaker 1: mean rational, irrational, whatever you want to call it. I 420 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: get really angry towards the hospital, towards the nurses, towards 421 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: the doctor. I mean, they're they're easy target. You know, 422 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: it's easy for me to overlook the fact that the 423 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: reason we were there in the first place is because 424 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: my dad was sick. You know, I can get angry 425 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: about the nurse that said to me, you know, as 426 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: I was crying the day before my dad died, stopped crying. 427 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: You need to be strong for him. You know, I'll 428 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: get enraged at the nurse. But like, who am I 429 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: to get in raged? You know that's what that's what 430 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: she believed, And like who cares? Um or a lot 431 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: you know, are angry at my dad, Like angry at 432 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: my dad? Why? Dad? Why did it mean? What did 433 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 1: you have to die? Um? But Um, it just seems 434 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: so this that project on Instagram. I thought it was 435 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: interesting because I looked over your questions and you said, 436 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: what made you want to do the project or share 437 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: the project with other people? And the project actually was 438 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: never really about sharing it with the other people. The 439 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: project is about after my dad died. I have like 440 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: a rabbi that my rabbi, I'm a hilal Livi UM 441 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: was really instrumental in helping my dad and I like 442 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: talk about what would happen if he were to die 443 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: while he was going through this chemo. And after my 444 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: dad died, I sat with him and said like, well, 445 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: what am I supposed to do now? And he said, 446 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: you know, some people cover their mirrors for a year. 447 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: Some people will wear black for a year. Some people 448 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: will wear a black ribbon for a year. Some people 449 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: say cottage for a year. And I was trying to think, like, well, what, 450 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, what can I do for a year? And um, 451 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: like I only in one mirror in my house that 452 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: my kids need, and you know, I don't when we're 453 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: black for a year, because when I would just have 454 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: to end up buying more clothes. And the ribbon thing 455 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 1: was just I don't know, I thought I would forget 456 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: the ribbon. Um During my dad's funeral, it was which 457 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: was a very very warm day in January. While they 458 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: were actually lowering the coffin into the ground, I just 459 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: sort of like crouched down at the coffin and it 460 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: was like weirdly comfortable just to crouch there. And I 461 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: looked up and I saw my brother in law taking 462 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: a picture with his phone. And at the time, I 463 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: thought like that was so weird. You know, I just 464 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: was like, it'll put your phone away. Um. But that 465 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: night he sent me the picture and I just love 466 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: I actually really loved the picture. I knew my dad 467 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: would have loved it to my dad was all about 468 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: like weird candid photographs that captured like family dynamics, and um. 469 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: I put the picture on my personal Instagram account, which 470 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: at the time had like, I don't know, a thousand 471 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: followers on it. There was only pictures of my kids. 472 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: And I said something to my dad and I got 473 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: some responses, and I liked the feeling of having people 474 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: like respond. It was the day that of my dad's 475 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: funeral and I was sitting shove up my mom's house 476 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: and I don't know, it was nice. I mean what 477 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: it was. I had not been on Instagram for three months. 478 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: I shut. I shut. I took it off my phone 479 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: as my dad was dying because I just wanted to 480 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: be present with him and it was nice to like 481 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: have some sort of support on the platform the day 482 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: he died. And then, UM, I had written the speech 483 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: for his funeral that I was really proud about, and 484 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, forty people heard it. And after I came 485 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: back from the funeral. I sent it. I'm a contributing 486 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: editor of Vogue dot Com. I sent it to my 487 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: editor there. I said, would you want to run this speech? 488 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: And she said like, well, it's really nice, but you know, 489 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: it wouldn't really work. Maybe we could do it on 490 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: Father's Day. And so I was like, well, maybe I'll 491 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: just send put like chunks of the speech on the Instagram. 492 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: So I did that for a couple of days, and 493 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: then I put a few pictures of us up, and 494 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: then I thought, well, I'll do this for thirty days 495 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: because it feels kind of nice to honor my dad. 496 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: And people started writing in and saying like, thanks for 497 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: sharing your dad with us. It sounds like a cool guy. 498 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: Sounds like you had an interesting relationship, which in my 499 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: life had never occurred to me that my dad a 500 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: was cool or be that we had an interesting relationship 501 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: ever ever of any person in my life, certainly, my 502 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: dad was the lowest one on the cool tone pole. 503 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: I never thought we had an interesting relationship. But then 504 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: I was like, all right, well, I'll just keep writing. 505 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: And in the beginning it was very just like, you know, 506 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: linear stories about me and my dad, and then I 507 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm going to keep this up for 508 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: sixty days. And then it just started to feel like 509 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: a kind of a painful discipline. And it was painful discipline, 510 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: I think, and probably the same way it's painful to 511 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: wear to cover your mirrors or to wear the black ribbon, 512 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: or to stay cottish every day and or I don't know, 513 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: I've recently read the Marina Abramovich book The Artist is 514 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: President or I don't know if that's the book or 515 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: the movie, but it's actually an amazing book, and she 516 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: talks about sitting at the Mamma for six months and 517 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: just looking people in the eye every day. But anyway, 518 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: there's something it's a pain in the ask and write 519 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: those letters every night to my dad. I do it 520 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: every night between nine and ten. And and but it 521 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: it's a it feels like it feels like an appropriate discipline, 522 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: and it's a way to honor him, and it's a 523 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 1: way that keeps him fresh in my mind all day, 524 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 1: Like today I think like, well, what is it? What 525 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: is it? What do I want to think about? How 526 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: do I want to hold him in my head today 527 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: or in my body today? And it keeps it keeps 528 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: him with me, and I guess there's that added there's 529 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: the added weirdness, and then I get this like this. 530 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 1: It's these instant responses, which if I was writing on 531 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: my own I would never ever ever get. I mean, 532 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: that's the weird thing about social media is the most 533 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: likely I would be still be doing this in the 534 00:27:53,600 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: privacy of my computer. But with Instagram, I get those comments, 535 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: which are gratifying. So that's kind of like the self 536 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: serving part of it. But it's more like, you know, 537 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be hard on myself to keep 538 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: this up for a year and at the end of 539 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: the year, just see what emerges, if anything does. But 540 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: I saw that, you know, my dad would not be 541 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: happy about this at all. He was not. I I 542 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: wanted to write about this on my newsletter for Stone 543 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: Fox Bry about his sickness in September, and he asked 544 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: me not to, and I was not. He was not 545 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: happy with me sharing details of his sickness as anyone. 546 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: I mean, he was a very very private person and 547 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: he and I but it has a lot he did 548 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: not understand, like why it was such an overshare at all, 549 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: and so I know he wouldn't. I mean, I think 550 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: he was like wherever he is, he's like rolling his eyes. 551 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: And a lot of times I have to say, like 552 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: I have to check with him before I pressed them, 553 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: like are you okay with this? And there's a ton 554 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: of stuff I don't put in there that I know 555 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: he wouldn't like. Um, I think the project as a 556 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: whole he would be okay with, but he would not 557 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: be happy with me sharing so many of these personal details. 558 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: But um, that's this, you know, it's it's my story. 559 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: Now we'll hear more from Molly after a quick break 560 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: m hm, and we're back. Do you feel like through 561 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: this project that it's helped you process grief at all, 562 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: that you it sort of even if it's hard or 563 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,959 Speaker 1: it's a pain in the ass or it's it's not 564 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: something that's easy. Do you feel like that you'll be 565 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: able to look back on this and say, this is 566 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: a digital monument how I felt and it insults but 567 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: here it is. I don't know. I mean there are 568 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: times I look back on it even now, like what 569 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: I wrote last month, and I'm like, we'll get choked up. 570 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: I actually have no idea. I like looking back on it. 571 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: I like looking back on the writing and seeing like 572 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: what emerges, Like there's this really interesting thing that's like 573 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: emerging for me about how um like, there's interesting things 574 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: about like love and the body, and like how is 575 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: my dad's body was breaking down? Like we I sort 576 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: of had this different understanding of what love was or 577 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: what it is capable of being, and how it has 578 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: nothing to do with skin and bones and blood. But 579 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: it's like very transcendent and that has never been my 580 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: experience of love. It's always been very much about like 581 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: appearance and and physical presence. Um Like that was news 582 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: to me, and there was this whole like thing. I 583 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: the story that I uncovered last year. I had asked 584 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: my dad if we had any stones in our family. 585 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to make a new I think you mentioned that. 586 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: I said, Dad, I want to make a new ring. 587 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: Do we have any stones, any loose stones? And I 588 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: want to make a new piece of jewelry. And he said, yeah, 589 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: we do. We I do have some loose stones. And 590 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, so excited. And he 591 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: came out from his closet holding the flat rocks from 592 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: the beaches of Lake Michigan. And at the time I 593 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: just was like, you know, and sort of this is 594 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: everything that's wrong with my dad and my family, Like 595 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: we're so Midwestern, we're supervincial. Why can't we vacation in Greece? 596 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: Why don't we have more money? Why don't we more 597 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: of takes just everything where the diamonds and um, it's 598 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: that kind of story that I have now retold in 599 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: his death and sort of rediscovered, and I see like 600 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: that there's a lot of beauty in it, and there's 601 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: like that my dad, but in the red there's a 602 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: lot of retelling in the story of who my dad was, 603 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: or in anecdotes of our time together that in in 604 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: that I have found sort of a different side of 605 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: him that when he was alive. They're parts of our relationship. 606 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time like lulling my eyes about. 607 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: And it was only in the last few years that 608 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: I have come to really like love and respect. That's 609 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: so beautiful. I loved that story about the stones. I 610 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: feel like it says everything about who your dad was, 611 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: and one little kind of mundane anecdote, I thought, oh, 612 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: I know the kind of guy he was from that story, 613 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: and I just I found it to be so so 614 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: touching and pointing. It It's interesting how in death it 615 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: kind of brings you closer to who your loved one was. 616 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: That maybe it was hard to see them in a 617 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: certain way when they were around, because we have all 618 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: these all this baggage from our relationships and from you know, 619 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: trying to exist together and being family and all this weight. 620 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: But when that's all gone, you kind of realize this new, 621 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: this new story of who they were emerges and you 622 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: can sort of let yourself see it more clearly. Yes, 623 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: I mean I was lucky because that story had started 624 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,719 Speaker 1: started to emerge as he was dying, and it had 625 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: started to emerge for him. I mean, he knew he 626 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: was dying, I think more than we do. And so um, 627 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: he spent a lot of time crying these past few 628 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: months and being very nostalgic and talking a lot about 629 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: family and about the future and about the past. And um, 630 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: there was very you know, growing out, my dad was 631 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: like a very tense, angry, hard working guy. He had 632 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: a lot of rage, and he was very hard to 633 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: get close to and we did not have I did 634 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: not have an experience of intimacy with him that in 635 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: the past year and certainly in the past few months 636 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: that we did. I mean, we spent a lot of 637 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: time to get you know, his his health and his 638 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: body was failing him, but his mind and his spirit 639 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: was not so. UM, he did not have a lot 640 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: of like defenses, and we did. We had a lot 641 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: of We talked a lot about you know, love and 642 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: life and death and family and um, I had been 643 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: going through my own uh stuff this past year that 644 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: I needed his help with and luckily it didn't take 645 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: till he was dead. I mean, I was aware that 646 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: I was aware towards the end that these moments together 647 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: were transient, and I started to really like, I started 648 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: to really kind of mind them for all, you know, 649 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: to run with that diamond metaphor, like for all that 650 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: they were worth. So I was like very there was 651 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: like so much like love. There was so much like 652 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: raw emotion and love between us. In the end, Um, 653 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: I guess my brother in law's father like just drop 654 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: dead one night without any warning. And my children's father's father, um, 655 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: I seemed to be ex husband's father is very slowly 656 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 1: deteriorating due to dementia, and um, you know, and now 657 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,439 Speaker 1: there's my father who you know, had sort of four 658 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: months to die, and they're all, you know, death is death, 659 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: and there's sort of like three different versions of death 660 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: right there. But um, I certainly had some time with 661 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: my dad too to make sense of the fact that 662 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: we didn't have all the time left together and to 663 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: use such our advantage. Yeah, I think, Um, I mean, 664 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: I want to get to a place in my own 665 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: personal life where I'm not waiting until my dad is, 666 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: you know, on his deathbed to have to have that 667 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,439 Speaker 1: kind of relationship. I don't want to wait until it's 668 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: I don't have any time. I gotta I gotta start 669 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: doing it. I gotta start doing it. And I think 670 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: it's like I almost I almost want this episode to 671 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: sort of be a personal testament to keep me accountable because, 672 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: like you were saying, it is, I want to acknowledge 673 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 1: that it for myself and for a lot of people, 674 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: it requires sort of like getting out of your own life, 675 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: getting out of this sort of trap of oh, I'm 676 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: so busy, it's so important, blah blah blah, And it 677 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: involves getting over some like grudges and baggage and stuff 678 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: that you thought I'll never get over that I'll always 679 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: hold a grudge about this, Like we'll never be as 680 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: close as we want to because this happened. It involves 681 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: sort of saying like, none of that stuff matters. I 682 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 1: want I want to have the time that I have 683 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: with my with my loved one, and it involves a 684 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: feeling like really vulnerable. So for me, it was a 685 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: lot of saying like it's just a lot of like 686 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: saying really uncomfortable. It was a lot of like real 687 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: and raw intimacy. It was a lot of like my 688 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: dad wanted to celebrate Shabbat. I mean, this is like 689 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: a very specific example. So we're Jewish, and my dad 690 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: wanted to have Shabbat dinner every Friday night. He wanted 691 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: to have it with my kids there, and my kids, 692 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: you know, it was way past their bedtime. And he 693 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: really likes this one Jewish prayer that I used to 694 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: sing at JCC summer camp when I was like nine, 695 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: and it's it's so painful for me to sing. It's 696 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: like so dorky and horrible, and every time I sing it, 697 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: he would get tears in his eyes and I would 698 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: light the candles and sing the prayer, and um, it's 699 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: like that feeling of just like I hate singing that prayer. 700 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I'm a nine year old again. 701 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: But um, I knew how much it meant to him, 702 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 1: just like I knew how much you know, it meant 703 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: to him on Saturdays when I would go sit with 704 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: him at my sister's house and you know, bringing bagels 705 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: and we would look over stuff he had written. But 706 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: sometimes it was just about like getting you know, uncomfortable, 707 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: you know, being uncomfortable, being tired, not wanting to show 708 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: up and saying the thing, singing the thing, you know, 709 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: really getting outside of my comfort zone. And I know 710 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: it was that way for my sister too, So it's 711 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: almost like you can't you have to do you have 712 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: to do it, you can't think it, like you might 713 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: have to say, like Dad, this is going to be 714 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: really awkward and weird. I mean, I remember when my 715 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: dad was done, you know, as he was as he 716 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: lay there dying and I didn't even know if he 717 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: could hear me, and I was talking to him about Dad. 718 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: We're talking about taking off life support. You know, I 719 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: was crying so hard I could barely breathe, and my 720 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: kid's father was like shushing me, like you don't want 721 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: to him to know that we're thinking about taking him 722 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: off life support, like there's no manual for it, and 723 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: I was like, well, I yeah, I think I do 724 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 1: want him to know that it was all was so uncomfortable, 725 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: But um, I think that was the part of it 726 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: that felt really real, you know, we get in my life. 727 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: I'm so used to being sort of comfortable with everything 728 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: and like in my elements, but there was nothing about 729 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: this experience that was comfortable for me at all at all. 730 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: I mean up to like, you know, I had rubber glove. 731 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: I was in like rubber gloves and a paper robe 732 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: and I was trying. I mean, I just was completely 733 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: out of my comfort zone with everything. The only thing 734 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: I had was like my voice and my heart and 735 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: my love to kind of navigate everything. And I guess 736 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,240 Speaker 1: in the end, I mean as cheesy as the sound 737 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: that was enough that makes that makes perfect sense. It 738 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: doesn't sound cheesy at all. It makes perfect sense. And 739 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: I think I'm glad. I hope that this episode can 740 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: really from not just for me personally, but yes, for 741 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: me personally, but also for folks who maybe are dealing 742 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,879 Speaker 1: with coming to terms with their parents and sort of 743 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: you know how how little time we have left and 744 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 1: I want to acknowledge that not everybody has, you know, 745 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: the kind of parents where you can where they where 746 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: they feel comfortable to have a good relationship with them, 747 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: even in death. But I think that for folks who 748 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: want to be able to look back and say, you know, 749 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 1: I didn't wait till we had you know, five months, 750 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: three months, two months left, I made good use of 751 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: the time that I had with my loved one, and 752 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I can feel good about that time, and 753 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: I can look back on that time and feel like 754 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: it was really special and something that we can treasure. 755 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: I often feel like I'm I mean, I see by 756 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: the day, I'm I'm Michael, I'm like when you really 757 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: sort of like we were saying earlier, when you really 758 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: look at it, like by the day, every day that 759 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: I don't spend with my loved ones is a day 760 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: that I could that I that almost becose wasted. It's like, 761 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: when they're not there anymore, will I say like, oh, 762 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: I blew off my dad because I wanted to sleep 763 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: in When my dad's not here, I'll look back on 764 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: that and be like, what were you thinking? And if 765 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: if we really allowed ourselves to be honest about how 766 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: short and how fragile life is. We would make a 767 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: whole slew of different choices, and so I want to 768 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: make those different choices. And I hope that folks out 769 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: there who also want to make those different choices use 770 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: this as a as a springboard to do that. Um. 771 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 1: The last thing I want to say is when my 772 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: dad was actively dying, so he was in he was 773 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,439 Speaker 1: dying from Saturday to Thursday, and there was no I mean, 774 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 1: I've seen people die in the movies where everything is 775 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: beautiful and the angels are streaming in and their sunshine. 776 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: But this was not that. It was horrible. It was bloody, 777 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: it was bloated, It was being awful and it was traumatic. 778 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: And he was like, my brother said, who you know? 779 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: He said, it was like being in the room with 780 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 1: it plus the shining, plus your worst nightmare ever. It 781 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: was horrible thing in that room. He was like so 782 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: swollen and deformed from all of the drugs and from 783 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: the machines. It was not my dad in that room. 784 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: He was a monster. And um, it really was. And 785 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know that's gruesome to say. It was 786 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: like blood and machines and pills and ice. He was 787 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: ice cold, and it was awful, and I really didn't 788 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: want to go in that room ever, and I just 789 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: wanted them to say, like, you don't have to go 790 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: in that room. He doesn't know you're there and it's 791 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: too upsetting, and just stay home with your kids. Everyone said, like, 792 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 1: you know, go to the hospital and you can go, 793 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: and you have to stay in the room all day, 794 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: but you need to go in and out of the room, 795 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: and in going in, and I was a room I 796 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: did find. I mean, as much as I was waiting 797 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: for someone to say, you'd stay home, like he's going 798 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: to die, you don't have to go there, everyone was like, 799 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: you gotta go. And I did find this whole new 800 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: reserve of like straight and going there and being with 801 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: my dad in those last days of his life that 802 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: I did not think I had in me. And um, 803 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, I really had to push myself to go 804 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: in and be with him and talk to him and 805 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: be with my family and have these hard conversations about 806 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,359 Speaker 1: whether or not to take him off life support and 807 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: whether or not to let him die naturally, and you know, 808 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: hold the phone up to his ears as my Rabbi 809 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: was blessing him, you know, and absolving him and you know, 810 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: rubbing his feet that were cold, and all of this stuff, 811 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: and I'm and I mean, I was so taken to 812 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: the edge of the cliff there and all of this 813 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: stuff um brought me so much I don't know closer 814 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 1: to fill in the blank, but definitely life changing. Well, Molly, 815 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for sharing your story with 816 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: with me, with us. It's personally very meaningful, and I 817 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 1: think that a lot of folks are dealing with this 818 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: and I think it's I think it's a really powerful 819 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: and important story for folks to hear. And I'm so 820 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 1: thankful that you that you are okay to talk about 821 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: this in such honest and unflinching ways. Thank you, Bridget 822 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: best of luck to you, please, stan Well Smithy listeners. 823 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: That was a little bit of a tough personal conversation 824 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 1: right there, but I really hope for anybody out there 825 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: who's experienced loss or is grieving the loss of a 826 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: loved one, I hope it can be helpful, And please 827 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: tell me what you think. You can find us on Twitter, 828 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast on Instagram at Stuff I've Never told you, 829 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 1: and I'd love to get an email from you on 830 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 1: this subject at mom Stuff at houseta works dot com.