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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Law. I'm June Gralso in New

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Speaker 1: York with Greg Store in Washington, d C. The first

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Speaker 1: of President elect Donald Trump's cabinet nominees to get a

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Speaker 1: hearing is someone known to all the Senators, Alabama Senator

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Speaker 1: Jeff Sessions, known as being one of the most conservative members.

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Speaker 1: The seventy year old Sessions appeared before the Judiciary Committee today,

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Speaker 1: the same committee that rejected his bid for a federal

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Speaker 1: judge ship in nine six because of allegations of racist comments.

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Speaker 1: A case at the time in which Sessions prosecuted three

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Speaker 1: African American civil rights activists, accusing them of voter fraud

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Speaker 1: is said to be one reason he failed. Sessions told

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Speaker 1: Democratic Senator Diane Feinstein today that that caricature of him

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Speaker 1: in nine eighty six was not correct, and I do

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Speaker 1: hope this hearing today will show that I conducted myself

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Speaker 1: honorably and properly at that time, and that I am

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Speaker 1: the same person, perhaps wiser and maybe a little better.

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Speaker 1: I hope so the day than I was in. But

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Speaker 1: I did not harbor the kind of animosities and race

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Speaker 1: based discrimination ideas that were um I was accused of

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Speaker 1: I did not. Our guests are Christine Kippens, director of

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Speaker 1: Constitutional Messaging at the Constitutional Accountability Center, and Victoria Tuntsing,

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Speaker 1: an attorney at Genova and Tuntsing Christine. Sessions was asked

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Speaker 1: about his views on civil rights, women's rights, Muslims being

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Speaker 1: barred from entering the country. Did he try to walk

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Speaker 1: back his voting record or positions in any of those

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Speaker 1: areas well? He definitely had a long public record of

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Speaker 1: hostility to the Constitution's protections of liberty and equality for

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Speaker 1: all are particularly in relation to people of color, women, immigrants,

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Speaker 1: voting rights, lgbt Q rights, and equal access to education,

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Speaker 1: which makes him unfit to serve as the chief enforcer

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Speaker 1: of our nation's civil rights laws. You could see he

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Speaker 1: tried to rewrite his civil rights passed when he was

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Speaker 1: in conversation with Senator Frankin and Uh. The Senator did

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Speaker 1: not did not buy it. Uh. The Department of Justice

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Speaker 1: has a extremely important responsibility in defending our country civil rights,

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Speaker 1: and Sessions today proved that he has done nothing uh

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Speaker 1: in his record that would suggest that he would enforce

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Speaker 1: these laws effectively as is required by our Attorney General. Victoria.

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Speaker 1: There there are a number of controversial comments that that

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Speaker 1: Senator Sessions is alleged to have made. Um. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to go into all of them, but let me

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Speaker 1: just mention a couple of them. Uh. And these were

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Speaker 1: all before he was nominated to the judiciary. Um. He

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Speaker 1: uh allegedly said to a white civil rights lawyer that

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Speaker 1: he was ascribed described at white civil rights lawyer as

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Speaker 1: being a disgrace to his race. Incorrected, what do we

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Speaker 1: want to start? I mean, these things, it's so appalling.

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Speaker 1: This good and decent man was well, Victoria, can I

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Speaker 1: finished my question? Victoria, let me finish my question, please, um,

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Speaker 1: he said at his first confirmation hearing back when he

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Speaker 1: was nominated to be a judge. I think he acknowledged

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Speaker 1: that he actually did say that, right. He said, I

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Speaker 1: don't remember saying it. He said sometimes I have a

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Speaker 1: loose tongue, but I certainly don't remember that. Um. And

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Speaker 1: he didn't. He was not even accused of saying it.

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Speaker 1: He was that somebody came in and said, I hear

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Speaker 1: this person's a disgrace to his race, and uh, Jeff

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Speaker 1: Sessions evidently said something about it. Really, he just didn't

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Speaker 1: refute it. Now, I mean these allegations are are are

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Speaker 1: so obnoxious. Let's just talk about the voting fraud case

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Speaker 1: that was talked about at the beginning of the segment. Um,

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Speaker 1: do you know who the victims were? The victims were

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Speaker 1: blacks who had come to his office and begged for

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Speaker 1: help because they thought that there was voter fraud going on.

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Speaker 1: A grand jury had asked him to get involved. The

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Speaker 1: there was surveillance and the person who was indicted was

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Speaker 1: caught mailing ballots that had marked on it showing that

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Speaker 1: the names of the person voted for had been changed,

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Speaker 1: and Blacks were saying, I didn't make those changes on

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Speaker 1: my ballot. That's that case, and the Department of Justice

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Speaker 1: not only sanctioned it but wrote the indictment. And Christine,

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Speaker 1: what's your response to that, because that's a different view,

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Speaker 1: and it's a view that Centator Sessions was talking about today, right. Well,

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Speaker 1: I what I have to say to that is that

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Speaker 1: it's it's interesting that his supporters keep bringing up this

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Speaker 1: one example of Senator Sessions supporting a a possible outcome

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Speaker 1: that would have positive results for the black community. I

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Speaker 1: had to say, it's not enough to be in not racist. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what he has to do is to prove uh that

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Speaker 1: he has done something to defend the civil rights and

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Speaker 1: constitutional principles of equality and fairness. These are these are

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Speaker 1: deep commitments that an attorney general would have to demonstrate.

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Speaker 1: Any qualified nominee must have a history of respecting substantive

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Speaker 1: fundamental rights, and Jeff Sessions with one example that can't

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Speaker 1: be a history of respecting substantive fundamental rights. His rap

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Speaker 1: sheet is much longer for for ways in which he

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Speaker 1: has impeded blacks from voting. Uh. He has also mentioned

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Speaker 1: in great length during his nomination hearing today how he

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Speaker 1: supports law enforcement, which is wonderful, Yet he has said

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Speaker 1: absolutely nothing on the Department of Justice is responsibility to

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Speaker 1: look into h law enforcement that may be targeting the

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Speaker 1: black community. He has said that such procedures are end

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Speaker 1: around the of the Constitution. And that is the type

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Speaker 1: of things that we need to discuss today. Not one

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Speaker 1: instance from so long ago, but his thirty year plus

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Speaker 1: record of being anti civil rights. Well, well, let me

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Speaker 1: ask Victoria to respond to that. And one thing in

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Speaker 1: particularly I want to ask you about is Victoria is uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, he he did during the campaign express some

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Speaker 1: words of support for the idea of banning Muslims from

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Speaker 1: entering the country on the basis of religion. Um, are

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Speaker 1: you are you satisfied that he's going to uh file

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Speaker 1: the Constitution in that regard? Can I respond to fist

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Speaker 1: statement about one example. We're bringing out that one example

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Speaker 1: because that's what he was derided for and it was false.

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Speaker 1: The context stop it, which I just gave you shows

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Speaker 1: that he should not have been criticized for bringing for

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Speaker 1: bringing that case. Now you talked about the question about

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Speaker 1: the Muslims. He's never said Muslims. That was not Jeff sesshions.

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Speaker 1: And what he said is that there are certain countries

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Speaker 1: where there is terrorism and the people from there should

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Speaker 1: be vetted more carefully than for other Uh. But but

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump said Donald Trump said Muslims before changing his position, right,

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Speaker 1: didn't We can't. We're gonna kinda put put somebody else's

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Speaker 1: words in Jeff's session's mouth. Yeah, but he also refused Victoria.

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Speaker 1: He also refused when the when the Senate tried to

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Speaker 1: pass a sense of not having people not allowed into

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Speaker 1: the country because of their religion, he refused to sign

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Speaker 1: on to that. I have no idea what you just

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Speaker 1: said Okay, Well, you'll listen listen to them, You'll listen

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Speaker 1: to the to the testimony today, and you'll hear Senator

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Speaker 1: Patrick Leahy talking to him about that. I mean, you're

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Speaker 1: not you're you're do you do you think that he

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Speaker 1: is going to embrace Muslims coming into this country. That's

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Speaker 1: not that, that's not the issue. He said that people

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Speaker 1: coming from countries that has where there is terrorism should

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Speaker 1: be vetted more strongly. Hillary Clinton said the same thing.

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Speaker 1: You go back and and google her statement from an

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Speaker 1: airport tarmac, and she said, yes, I believe in stronger vetting.

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Speaker 1: That that's not, you know, a controversial statement. We should

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Speaker 1: vet people from countries, people coming in from Syria where

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Speaker 1: they have fake documents. We should be looking at people

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Speaker 1: like that more carefully, of course, to protect the American people.

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Speaker 1: But I just want to go back to the the

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Speaker 1: two people who criticized Jeff Sessions in and that we're

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Speaker 1: basing all this on, both of them have been discredited. Victoria.

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Speaker 1: There has been a lot not just about Jeff Sessions,

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Speaker 1: but about a lot of other Trump nominees that the

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Speaker 1: is are being rushed through. They're being rushed through without

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Speaker 1: the normal background checks that are done by the FBI

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Speaker 1: without some of the nominees even filling out the required forms.

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Speaker 1: Why the rush, Well, as I'm sure we all know

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Speaker 1: that that Senator Obama on the day he was sworn in,

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Speaker 1: had seven of his appointees already voted on by but

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Speaker 1: they had filled out the forms, and so was all

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Speaker 1: the ones that are on this week. So um, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand the issue. They're the ones that are

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Speaker 1: up this week have filled out their forms. June, I'd

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Speaker 1: like to go back to something about but we talked,

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Speaker 1: but we okay, But we don't want to go back

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Speaker 1: to the same case that that was so many years ago.

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Speaker 1: But you can go back to something else. This is

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Speaker 1: about an overarching concept. Um. I was a prosecutor. I

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Speaker 1: was a several prosecutor for five years and then deputies

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Speaker 1: just in a g for four So I developed a

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Speaker 1: philosophy about the criminal law. I know Christine hasn't been

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Speaker 1: there and and so it's not her background, and she

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Speaker 1: has another wonderful background. But I have a philosophy, and

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Speaker 1: that is regarding violent crimes, they should be done by

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Speaker 1: carried out by the state. They should be state prosecutors.

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Speaker 1: And so I marched for the e r A, I

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Speaker 1: marched for pro choice, but when it came to the

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Speaker 1: Violence for Women Act, I opposed it because I thought

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Speaker 1: local prosecutors should be doing it. It does not make

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Speaker 1: me a sexist. For goodness stake. Um. People can have

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Speaker 1: differing views because of a basic legal philosophy, and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't make them whatever is you want to call them

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Speaker 1: that day, Christine. Senator Sessions has said a lot of

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Speaker 1: things today that I would think would reassure you to

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Speaker 1: some degree. He said he would recuse himself from any

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Speaker 1: investigation involving Hillary Clinton. He's talked about how he abhors

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Speaker 1: the KKK, he is, uh, you know, pretty strongly asserted

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Speaker 1: he will be independent from Donald Trump. He has is

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Speaker 1: that he empathizes with the civil rights struggles. Um. Are

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Speaker 1: you reassured is he at least saying saying the right

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Speaker 1: things today? Well? I think saying things and doing things

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Speaker 1: are very different. Um. Senator Cornin today spoke about knowing

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Speaker 1: Jeff Sessions is heart and while that's very nice for

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Speaker 1: the two of them, his heart doesn't really, you know,

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Speaker 1: give us an indication as to what type of attorney

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Speaker 1: general he would be. Um. Now, I do want to

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Speaker 1: go back to the idea of this being a rigged

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Speaker 1: process for a rigged cabinet. UH. Senator Sessions has said

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Speaker 1: in the past during similar Attorney general hearings that you know,

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Speaker 1: you need to present a full record so that we

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Speaker 1: could understand the type of attorney general the nominee would be.

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Speaker 1: And yet Sessions has not provided a full record. He

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Speaker 1: has not provided a questionnaire that is suitable to have

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Speaker 1: a hearing. Not to mention we're only having one day

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Speaker 1: of hearing from Senator Sessions. He has a thirty year

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Speaker 1: plus record that we need to go through, and getting

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Speaker 1: through with it in a single day is not good enough.

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Speaker 1: We're only having an additional day for outside witnesses. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you think back to Attorney general hearings in the past,

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Speaker 1: some of them have been four days long for people

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Speaker 1: who have not had so public a career as Jeff Sessions.

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Speaker 1: So I do believe that, UH, these nominees are being

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Speaker 1: rammed through. Quite a few of them are coming through

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Speaker 1: today and tomorrow, so we're not going to be able

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Speaker 1: to give the American people a full picture of these

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Speaker 1: nominees background and why they are so troubling for maintaining

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Speaker 1: rule of law. Thank you both for being on Bloomberg Law.

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Speaker 1: That's Christine Kippens, director of Constitutional Messaging at the Constitutional

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Speaker 1: Accountability Center, and Victoria Dunsing, an attorney at di Genova

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Speaker 1: and Dunsing