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Speaker 1: King Slime is a production of iHeart Polocasts and Heirloom Media.

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Speaker 1: I'm Christina Lee and I'm George Cheedy and this is

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Speaker 1: King Slime.

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Speaker 2: We're coming to you with our last episode, right, and

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Speaker 2: it's a bittersweet, but we're gonna make it good because

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Speaker 2: we're here with the whys and powerful Joe Coscarelli, who

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Speaker 2: writes about hip hop for The New York Times, Joe,

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Speaker 2: how are you?

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Speaker 3: Hey?

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. I don't think I've ever been

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Speaker 4: described as powerful, but I'll take it. No.

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Speaker 1: I mean here, we're all about first, we're all about reporting.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's really evergreen. And of course we're joined

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Speaker 1: by executive producer Tommy Andres. We'd be remiss not to

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Speaker 1: introduce it.

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Speaker 3: Hey, guys, cheers to the last one. Huh yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean this is I mean, this is such an interesting conundrum,

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Speaker 1: right because there is still so much trial left. I

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Speaker 1: would say when I hear first gave us this deal,

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Speaker 1: they maybe didn't anticipate how much trial there would still

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Speaker 1: be by the end of all this. But you know,

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Speaker 1: long story short, there's no end in sight, and so

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Speaker 1: the financials didn't really work out and to where our

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Speaker 1: ongoing coverage can't keep going on forever. So our goal

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Speaker 1: with this episode is to not only just bring you

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Speaker 1: up to speed of what's been happening, do a quick

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Speaker 1: touch on that, but then also just to like, you know,

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Speaker 1: take a bigger picture perspective on what the overall effects

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Speaker 1: are going to be. And so Joe obviously is a

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Speaker 1: perfect guest for that being Culture reported The New York Times.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, George, he wrote an entire book on

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Speaker 1: Atlanta's hip hop scene, Rap Capital, and Atlanta Story. And

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Speaker 1: if you remember, in the very beginning of this show,

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Speaker 1: you were one of our very first guests, so we're

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Speaker 1: so honored to have you once again.

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Speaker 4: Thanks. I mean, it's sort of sadly the podcast is

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Speaker 4: like a microcosm for the trial in itself, and that

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Speaker 4: it's taking so long, that all these things are happening

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Speaker 4: and following by the wayside, and like you know, it

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Speaker 4: could be like the longest trial podcast ever if you

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Speaker 4: guys have covered through the burden, so you might you

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Speaker 4: might be here in like twenty twenty six doing the

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Speaker 4: same thing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we started making the show two years ago,

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Speaker 3: like it's been two years already, and the trial could

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Speaker 3: go till they said twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 4: I think did we I think we might have taped

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Speaker 4: our first interview for the first episode in which it

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Speaker 4: would have been January twenty three or February.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I think so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's wild.

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Speaker 2: I note in passing the passing of OJ Simpson, Oh

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Speaker 2: my god. And I'm mentioning that because it was a

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Speaker 2: lengthy trial that had a lot of media attention, and

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Speaker 2: from time to time this trial gets compared.

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Speaker 3: To that Trial of the Century. Well it was nine months.

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Speaker 3: We talked about that. Actually they might hit the cutting

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Speaker 3: room floor. But that trial is only nine months long.

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Speaker 3: Now the trial is Century is only nie months long.

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Speaker 3: And here we are.

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Speaker 2: This trial is going to be longer than the O. J.

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Speaker 2: Simpson trial. And the media ronment then, like the OJ

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Speaker 2: Simpson trial launched sort of cable news law stuff, like

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Speaker 2: the twenty four hour news cycle hit with the OJ

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Speaker 2: Simpson case. And I've mentioned this before, this trial has

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Speaker 2: been this social media kind of thing where clips circulate

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Speaker 2: on Instagram, you know, and it's it's become the most

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Speaker 2: important trial of all of these other sort of wrap

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Speaker 2: trials that have been happening, partly because it's nuts and

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Speaker 2: partly because it's a it reflects this the media environment

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Speaker 2: that we're in.

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Speaker 1: I know, trying to keep up with the demand has

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Speaker 1: been an absolute doozy. I've definitely felt susceptible to I

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Speaker 1: don't even want to call it like the twenty four

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Speaker 1: hour news cycle anymore because somehow that doesn't accurately capture

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Speaker 1: the pacing of everything, but it certainly we certainly, I

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Speaker 1: guess on my end, I should say I don't want

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Speaker 1: to speak on behalf of just Tommy and George, but

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Speaker 1: I certainly felt press to like meet the demand for

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Speaker 1: any sort of insight, any sort of clip, any sort

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Speaker 1: of like takeaway that was going to catch people's attention

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Speaker 1: of this trial.

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Speaker 4: And yet, on the flip side, like I would say,

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Speaker 4: this trial also represents its media moment, like as a

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Speaker 4: counter to something like the O. J. Simpson trial, which

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Speaker 4: was such a like monocultures like geist thing where everybody

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Speaker 4: was paying attention to the same thing. Whereas I feel

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Speaker 4: like this trial, both because of its length and because

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Speaker 4: of the sort of fractured nature of media and music

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Speaker 4: and popular culture, is like a little bit underrated in

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Speaker 4: terms of how crazy it is. Like the people like

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Speaker 4: us who have been following it from since the indictment

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Speaker 4: or before we're all in. But then most people, I

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Speaker 4: feel like, just have like a passing like, oh, like

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Speaker 4: even someone like Young Thug isn't as famous as you

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Speaker 4: would have been if he was Young Thug in the nineties,

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Speaker 4: you know, and so they're sort of like, oh, I

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Speaker 4: know vaguely there's a rap around trial. It's like both

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Speaker 4: such a complicated and long lasting case that I feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's like it's you know, there's there's a chance people

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Speaker 4: gather back around for the verdict whenever that is. But

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Speaker 4: I do feel like it's sort of like most things

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Speaker 4: in news and media, just like floats by most people

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Speaker 4: whenever that is.

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Speaker 3: It is crazy how people like I people will ask

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Speaker 3: me what I do these days or whatever. I'll meet

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Speaker 3: somebody to party, whatever, And it's amazing the percentage of

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Speaker 3: people that still have no idea who Young Thug is.

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Speaker 3: When I started like, oh, it sort of sounds familiar

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Speaker 3: or whatever. You haven't heard of this person? I mean,

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Speaker 3: obviously that strikes me as strange because we've been focusing

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Speaker 3: on it so intensely for two years. But I, you know,

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Speaker 3: I think you're right, like the hip hop spotlight is

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Speaker 3: very bright, but the broader sort of news cycle is

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Speaker 3: so swallowed up with all these other huge stories. I

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Speaker 3: do feel like this one is sort of getting like

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Speaker 3: cast aside in a lot of ways. Even it's not

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Speaker 3: even the most you know, focused on Rico trial right now,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's like, yeah, there's a lot going on.

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Speaker 1: Well, speaking of a lot going on, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: try to make this as succinct as possible because it's

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Speaker 1: been a couple of weeks since we last caught up

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Speaker 1: with you guys, and I'm going to do my best

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Speaker 1: to very sinkly talk about what's been going on since

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Speaker 1: we lasted a court report. So we, I think have

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Speaker 1: finally heard an end to testimony regarding the Red Nissan

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Speaker 1: incident that happened in May twenty thirteen, or not only

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Speaker 1: Adrian Bean completed his testimony, but we finally heard from

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Speaker 1: investigator David Quinn. I would say that was one takeaway.

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Speaker 1: The other takeaway is regarding an incident that isn't even

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Speaker 1: part of the indictment. It was a part of what

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Speaker 1: has been called a robbery where essentially there's so much

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Speaker 1: we could get into this, but a woman who was

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Speaker 1: identified as a Bennett says that she heard a knock

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Speaker 1: on her door one night, looked and saw that it

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Speaker 1: was friends of her baby's father, Young Thug Walter DK Murphy,

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Speaker 1: and then Young Thug's brother let him in, but then

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden gets a gun held to her

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Speaker 1: head and she gets robbed of a couple possessions.

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Speaker 5: Do you recall telling the police that you opened the

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Speaker 5: door and let thug inside your home? And do you

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Speaker 5: call telling the police that you turned your back on

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Speaker 5: Thug Thug's brother and a person you call DKA to

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Speaker 5: walk into the kitchen to make your baby a bottle?

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Speaker 5: Do you recall telling the police that when you went

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Speaker 5: to the kitchen, Thug's brother put a silver nine millimeter

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Speaker 5: to the back of your head.

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Speaker 1: And then on top of that, there has been some

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Speaker 1: I guess admonishing on Judge Glanville's and where he's talking

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Speaker 1: about like, hey, this trial is going on for way

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Speaker 1: too long. We need to take some hardcore measures to

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Speaker 1: make sure that this trial is expeding as possible for

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Speaker 1: the sake of the jury. So he's talked about earlier

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Speaker 1: star times. He's also addressed timely discovery and the need

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Speaker 1: for all of that. And then finally, the person who's

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Speaker 1: currently taken the stand is someone who is one of

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Speaker 1: the co founders of YSL, and that will be Walter

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Speaker 1: DK Murphy. He's expected to continue taking the stand after

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Speaker 1: we record this episode, so potentially days after. So it's

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Speaker 1: a lot, George, as you're paying attention to all this,

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Speaker 1: like what's sticking out to you?

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Speaker 2: So let's start with this the judge. It has become

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Speaker 2: entirely clear to everybody, including apparently the judge now that

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Speaker 2: this is taking too long.

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Speaker 1: We can't be talking about like multiple super Bowls, like

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Speaker 1: that's just crossing a line madness.

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Speaker 2: And I So he's issued an order and a fairly

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Speaker 2: stern order, and the questions whether or not he's actually

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Speaker 2: going to hold to the order to try to speed

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Speaker 2: things up, he's essentially limiting the kind of objections and

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Speaker 2: how those objections are going to be held, and when

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Speaker 2: a jury will be brought in or taken away, and

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Speaker 2: how much time will be taken from the from the

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Speaker 2: court for extraneous stuff, and to hold court on Saturdays

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Speaker 2: and Sundays if necessary, which is extraordinary and difficult defensive

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Speaker 2: because you've got to have sheriff's deputies, a bunch of

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Speaker 2: sheriff deputies in the courtroom. You're committing ten other people

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Speaker 2: to over time in a sheriff's office that doesn't have

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Speaker 2: extra bodies to give to it. So he issues this

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Speaker 2: order and then still continues with the daily delays, like

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Speaker 2: court was supposed to be starting at eight thirty on

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Speaker 2: the dot, and it's not. It's nine. It's nine thirty.

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Speaker 2: Comfort breaks that are supposed to be ten minutes turned

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Speaker 2: into half an hour or longer. And the objections that

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Speaker 2: he'sbjecting to are still flowing more or less in the

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Speaker 2: same way, and he's getting testy about that.

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Speaker 6: All right, and I guess you'll all be working this

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Speaker 6: weekend then, because this is exactly what I told you

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Speaker 6: was going to be a problem.

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Speaker 4: You bring this stuff up.

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Speaker 6: I got a jury sitting in the box, and you

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Speaker 6: got a witness you're probably gonna have days of examination with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he and Steel have had some really harsh back

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Speaker 3: and forths. That's been Uh, it's been tense.

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Speaker 7: You tell in front of the jury how I'm prepared.

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Speaker 7: I am, And let me tell you something, I am

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Speaker 7: not unprepared. I don't appreciate the court telling me that,

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Speaker 7: and you don't. And I asked you tell the jury

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Speaker 7: that you were wrong when you when you admonished me

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Speaker 7: last time, you said you wouldn't do that.

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Speaker 4: This is the second time. And you know what it

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Speaker 4: does to me. I don't care.

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Speaker 7: I'm hurt because you're a court but I really don't care.

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Speaker 2: But what does it do to mister Williams, mister Steele.

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Speaker 6: I'm not trying to personally insult you or hurt your feelings?

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Speaker 4: Okay again, who are you?

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Speaker 3: Are?

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Speaker 2: A grown professional advocate?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's adding to I guess, like, thanks for

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Speaker 1: reminding me, Tommy. There was a motion to disqualify Daadan

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Speaker 1: Love from the whole proceedings. That's how testing things have

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Speaker 1: just got in court in general. And of course like

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Speaker 1: that was denied, but still that kind of speaks to

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Speaker 1: like the acrimonious nature that has really been bogging down

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Speaker 1: the trial.

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Speaker 2: Right, And I don't see that changing until Fanni Willis

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Speaker 2: puts the hammer down. And I think that moment is

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Speaker 2: coming if this is still going on in the way

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Speaker 2: it is when the Trump case is also absorbing the

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Speaker 2: attention of the court and of the Sheriff's office and

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Speaker 2: everybody else. I think she's going to make a trioge decision.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been interesting to see. I mean, with Glanville

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Speaker 3: getting so frustrated. We've talked about this a little bit

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Speaker 3: in our preparation for this episode. It's just like, he's

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Speaker 3: really where the buck stops, right, I mean, he's the

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Speaker 3: conductor of the orchestra here, So for him to get

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Speaker 3: so mad at how slow things are, it's like, bro, like,

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Speaker 3: what are you doing here? This is your show. You're

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Speaker 3: the one running this. So if I'm a jur and

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Speaker 3: I'm sitting in there and this is happening, and I'm

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Speaker 3: just like, oh great, I get to give up my

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Speaker 3: weekends now too, Awesome. I'm gonna be here till super

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Speaker 3: Bowl twenty six, twenty seven or whatever the hell of

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Speaker 3: a date is that they can keep saying this thing

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Speaker 3: is going to go too and I got to come

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Speaker 3: in on weekends, Like get out of here.

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Speaker 2: That number for like twenty twenty seven didn't come out

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Speaker 2: of nowhere. It's simply taking a look at how many

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Speaker 2: witnesses have been heard and how long each witnesses take,

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Speaker 2: and then looking at the one hundred and sixty more

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Speaker 2: witnesses to go in that order. Judge Gladville also like

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Speaker 2: there was an attachment for all of the witnesses yet

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Speaker 2: to come, and we're actually starting to edge into the

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Speaker 2: evidence that if you've been a listener to this podcast,

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Speaker 2: would be very interesting to you. Kenneth Copeland is on

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Speaker 2: the witness list, probably fifteen or twenty names down. He's

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Speaker 2: only listed by initials KC, but it's got to be him.

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Speaker 2: Some of the investigators that we've spoken with on like

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Speaker 2: Investigator Gaither is coming.

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Speaker 1: Up, Marsa riverto Marsa.

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Speaker 2: Viverrito is coming up that we've spoken to that are

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Speaker 2: coming up soon. And when you do, when they come in,

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Speaker 2: you're going to start hearing some more of the evidence

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Speaker 2: that's much more substantial and much more relevant than a

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Speaker 2: twenty thirteen car chase.

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Speaker 3: Then, yeah, than nine weeks of red Nissan testimony, right exactly.

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Speaker 4: But I was going to say, like, no matter how

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Speaker 4: many thirty minute breaks get shortened to ten minutes, or

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Speaker 4: even how many weekends you come in, like the amount

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Speaker 4: of time we've spent so far on essentially witnesses sort

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Speaker 4: of superfluous to the main facts of the case. Plus however,

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Speaker 4: many witnesses are to come, you know, one hundred and

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Speaker 4: fifty plus. As George said, like, this trial is going

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Speaker 4: to take forever, no matter how many how much fat

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Speaker 4: is cut from it, you know what I mean, like

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Speaker 4: or this jury is in for many many more months realistically.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the pipeline for the rest of Fulton County

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Speaker 3: is getting clogged like crazy. I mean there was another

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Speaker 3: and Matthews has another client I read about this a

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Speaker 3: few weeks ago who is a waiting trial and will

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Speaker 3: not go to trial because he's defended by Carton Matthews

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Speaker 3: and you know, so they've made special accommodations so he

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Speaker 3: won't go to trial for another year at least. I mean,

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Speaker 3: whenever this thing wraps is basically when this guy's going

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Speaker 3: to go to trial. They're just waiting for that, which

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Speaker 3: seems crazy. I mean it's it's like, so you've got

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Speaker 3: this family who's relative was allegedly murdered by this guy,

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Speaker 3: who has to wait for justice for that long. Plus

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Speaker 3: you've got this guy who has to sit in jail

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Speaker 3: and await his time because of something that has nothing

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Speaker 3: to do with him. So in addition to you know,

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Speaker 3: young thug and you know, all the all of his

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Speaker 3: co defendants being caught in this system for so long,

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Speaker 3: you have this trickle down effect that's really crazy, and

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Speaker 3: I think we'll be I think we'll start hearing a

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Speaker 3: lot more about that soon.

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Speaker 2: Name that wasn't on the witness list, Ghana.

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Speaker 4: Is what do you make of that?

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Speaker 2: George just this that our sort of initial law at

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Speaker 2: what Gunda was charged with, and the evidence that they

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Speaker 2: might have was probably on the spot, that they didn't

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Speaker 2: have a lot, and that they wrapped him in because

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Speaker 2: he had money and they wanted to take him off

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Speaker 2: the table for a little while, Like that's the only

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Speaker 2: plausible explanation for why they would have bothered with him

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Speaker 2: in the first place.

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Speaker 4: What do you think, Joe, Yeah, I mean his charges.

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Speaker 4: As George said, we're so far from again the main

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Speaker 4: crux of this case, specifically, you know, the murder of

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Speaker 4: donovand Thomas and some of the more intense weapons charges

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Speaker 4: that came later. And there was a lot made about

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Speaker 4: the nature of gunns plea, you know, whether the Alfred

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Speaker 4: plea actually differentiated him from some of the people who

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Speaker 4: took deals. The DA's office was very adamant that if

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Speaker 4: called to testify, he would in fact be required to

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Speaker 4: testify as the other people who took please and yeah,

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Speaker 4: and then Gunner's lawyer was a very adamant on the

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Speaker 4: other side. I'm sure you know, multiple people on this

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Speaker 4: podcast have had unpleasant phone calls regarding these issues, potentially

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Speaker 4: that that Ghana was would never be asked to testify.

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Speaker 4: So I think it's possible there was a little bit

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Speaker 4: of you know, a wink wink, like, we don't really

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Speaker 4: need the guy because whatever he's copying to in his

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Speaker 4: plea is going to be proven ten times over by

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Speaker 4: the time we get to trial. And yeah, the facts

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Speaker 4: of the of the you know, the counts that he

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Speaker 4: was in first hand, I just don't think I don't

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Speaker 4: think would require him, especially if he was going to

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Speaker 4: be the sort of difficult states witness that we've seen

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Speaker 4: thus far in which people even people have taken pleaser,

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Speaker 4: trying to say as a little as possible to fulfill

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Speaker 4: their their duties.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we've talked so much about like how this

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Speaker 1: trial might be perceived in the eyes of the jury,

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Speaker 1: right because they are the ones who are ultimately going

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Speaker 1: to roll on this. But one thing we wanted to

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Speaker 1: ask you about, Joe is how this trial is being

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Speaker 1: looked at at the eyes of other artists, you know,

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Speaker 1: the sort who might have been afraid that rap music

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Speaker 1: was really going to be put on trial in regards

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Speaker 1: to why I sell, Could you give us some insight

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Speaker 1: into that reaction and how that's evolved as it's continued

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Speaker 1: to stretch on and on in ways that we've talked about, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, I would say overall, my main surprise, sense of

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Speaker 4: surprise is how quiet the music industry has been about

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Speaker 4: this trial. I think, you know, you have your free

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Speaker 4: Thugs here and there, you have songs on albums that

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Speaker 4: seem to allude to him, which maybe we'll get to

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Speaker 4: you later in this conversation, But at the same time,

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Speaker 4: there's not a huge galvanized effort, you know, like there

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Speaker 4: may have been in past hip hop trials. And I

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Speaker 4: think part of that has to do with, as we've

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Speaker 4: alluded to, both the fractured state of media and news

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Speaker 4: like even Trump news comes and goes like multiple times

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Speaker 4: a week at this point, and Trump is, you know,

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Speaker 4: degrees more famous and potentially consequential compared to Young Thug,

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Speaker 4: But also the facts of the case are unwieldy. I

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Speaker 4: think people don't exactly know what to make of it

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Speaker 4: and where THUG fits in. I think people see, you know, artists,

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Speaker 4: industry people, local Atlanta music seeing people you know, they

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Speaker 4: have a deeper understanding both of the facts of the case,

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Speaker 4: but then a surface level understanding. I think as most

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Speaker 4: people who have lives and fast paced careers, like rappers

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Speaker 4: or musicians or managers or label people like, I think,

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Speaker 4: their understanding of the facts of the case itself are quick, cursory,

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Speaker 4: and you might you know that you see you see

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Speaker 4: headlines on social media, you get the viral moments when

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Speaker 4: someone's testimony goes above and beyond. I think people know.

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Speaker 4: I think the overarching feeling is that this case is

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Speaker 4: a mess, and maybe that's going to help THUG in

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Speaker 4: the long term, I think, But I think most people

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Speaker 4: are just sort of going to wait and see, and

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Speaker 4: we may see, you know, like I said earlier, a

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Speaker 4: rise in the profile of the case as we get

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Speaker 4: closer to jury deliberations and a verdict, and then I

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Speaker 4: think is when we'll see people really come out of

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Speaker 4: the woodwork and respond. But I do think overall the

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Speaker 4: reaction has been fairly muted.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, do you agree, Yeah, I feel like

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen a whole lot. I guess. First, as

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Speaker 1: we were reporting this podcast, we did speak with profit

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Speaker 1: with Black Music Action Coalition and who positive that maybe

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Speaker 1: there is fear in the music industry from wanting to

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Speaker 1: speak out, especially given the strong reaction toward gonna one

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Speaker 1: way or the other. It just seemed like they would

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Speaker 1: rather just not be involved in something like that whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: and so that they don't get bogged bogged down by

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Speaker 1: that as well. But so he was alluding to the

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Speaker 1: fact that there might be fear in people speak out.

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Speaker 1: But then on the other hand, it's like, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: had a lot of trouble I think reporting the podcast,

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Speaker 1: even just getting people to comment on the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: It seemed like even from three hundred's perspective, like so,

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Speaker 1: like one person that I really really wanted to feature

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Speaker 1: on the podcast was anybody from three hundred Entertainment, especially

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Speaker 1: as they were like ramping up, you know, the rap

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Speaker 1: on Trial campaign and everything and wanting to get people

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Speaker 1: to sign a petition. I thought that would actually be

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Speaker 1: the easiest thing in the world on our behalf, But

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Speaker 1: I was shocked by how much I was like, shut down,

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Speaker 1: shut down, shutdown. So I wonder if they've even sort

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Speaker 1: of like tammed down on the response, you know, just

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Speaker 1: to not make such a big deal out of it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it was. It's been really challenging. I feel

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Speaker 1: like in one way or the other, it's been really

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Speaker 1: hard to hear, like from any sort of artist's perspective

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Speaker 1: on what this is. Like, Like the studios didn't want

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Speaker 1: to touch the news, Like none of the artists who

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Speaker 1: maybe even have a tangential relationship to Young Thug wanted

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Speaker 1: to comment on it. I thought it was really interesting.

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Speaker 3: So we're not seeing a ton of people like comment

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Speaker 3: on it directly or I mean occasionally, I guess we've

403
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Speaker 3: seen a few, like Drake obviously wide in when that

404
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 3: phone call was the jail phone call was leaked with

405
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Speaker 3: Mariah scientists, he was pretty pissed off about that.

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Speaker 2: He also did a video early like which was like

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Speaker 2: where he flashed freewise.

408
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Speaker 3: Well, so this is what I was going to say.

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Speaker 3: So the freehy I sell stuff'sbviously been out there quite

410
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Speaker 3: a bit. But Joe, I'm wondering we have seen Young

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Speaker 3: Thug featured in a bunch of songs since his arrest

412
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Speaker 3: came out of the full album has been featured in

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Speaker 3: a bunch of songs, and I'm wondering what that shows.

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Speaker 3: Like that's obviously I would think some level of support too, right,

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Speaker 3: like continuing to put Young Thug in your music.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's two levels of it. There's the

417
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 4: implicit or explicit show of solidarity of either appearing on

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Speaker 4: Thug's album, which seems to have been mostly put together

419
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Speaker 4: from stuff he'd recorded previously. If we know anything about

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Speaker 4: Young Thug as an artist, it's that he's extremely extremely

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Speaker 4: prolific and recording at all times, you know, in the

422
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Speaker 4: mold of his idols like Gucci Man or Lol Wayne,

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Speaker 4: both of whom had stints in prison. We're also very

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Speaker 4: uh you know, ultimately very productive for them musically and creatively.

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Speaker 4: So I think I think there's that, And then I

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Speaker 4: think there's probably a business reality of it too, which

427
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Speaker 4: is if you're either buying paying for, you know, a

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Speaker 4: Young Thug verse or contributing to his his eventual royalty

429
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Speaker 4: statements by featuring him on you know, a big album

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Speaker 4: or two, you know, that's a that's a form of

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Speaker 4: of of material support, uh for somebody who you know,

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Speaker 4: has had most of his avenues for making money frozen

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Speaker 4: by sitting in copp County jail for you know, going

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Speaker 4: on going on two years now.

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Speaker 3: So you think that most of the music that has

436
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,719
Speaker 3: been released since then was stuff that Young Thug had

437
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 3: already recorded.

438
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 4: Uh, that that's my assumption, you know, I think there hasn't.

439
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 4: There's been a little whispers here and there, you know,

440
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 4: going back to the first song on the original release

441
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 4: of Business Business, uh, which features Drake and has a

442
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 4: call between Drake and Young Thug on the jail.

443
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 8: Phone, y'all's brother brother taught to me, what's the word? Oh,

444
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,959
Speaker 8: I ain't going ship man, just pushing more, Peter more sweeter,

445
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 8: welcompleter Amy, Peter pushing around.

446
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 4: And then when Thugs verse comes in, it sounds to

447
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 4: me to my ear as somebody who uses voice memos

448
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 4: a lot to record interviews. It sounds like it could

449
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 4: have been recorded on an iPhone and it seems to

450
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 4: refer to being in jail or something about his his

451
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 4: current situation. Uh. So that may be a new or

452
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 4: newer or newish verse since the since the arrest, most

453
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 4: of the other stuff, you know, seems a bit evergreen.

454
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: Uh.

455
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 4: And again like there are countless producers, engineers, I'm sure,

456
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 4: with hard drive upon hard drive upon hard drive of

457
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 4: unreleased Thug music. You know, there's a real history of

458
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 4: this in rap, you know, Gucci being the best example.

459
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 4: But even this past week, Uh Thug put out a

460
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 4: song with Lil Wayne, which to me was like, was

461
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 4: extremely noteworthy because Wayne is in this in the details

462
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 4: of this case, in between the lines as somebody who

463
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 4: may have had, you know, potentially almost fatal static with

464
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 4: Thug and his allies at some point. You know, I

465
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 4: think they've only done one one song together previously, maybe two,

466
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 4: So I felt like Wayne putting something out with at

467
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 4: this moment that's like a real that's a real show

468
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 4: of like sort of almost reaching across the aisle to

469
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 4: say like we may have had our differences in the past,

470
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 4: but with you against the criminal justice system, like I'm

471
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 4: with you.

472
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going back to what you said, Joe,

473
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts because

474
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: you kept alluding to Gucci Maine. I think what I

475
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: remember from those Gucci Maine days, especially when he was

476
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: dropping tape after tape and then just prefacing it with

477
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: like jailhouse calls after the other. You would get like

478
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: the long, extended, like two minute intro like call from

479
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: Fulton County Jail, and then it's just like completely garbled

480
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: on the other end. I feel like there was so

481
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: much more mystique around how that was possible, and Gucci

482
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: wasn't even the first. He was just the most prolific

483
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: and the most brazen about it, Whereas I think now

484
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: fans have such a bigger understanding of the fact that

485
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: artists are just constantly producing and therefore had this backlock

486
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: to be able to produce even when they are being jail.

487
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: So maybe now I think maybe the muted fan response

488
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: toward all this comes from just fans like understanding, like

489
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, like this isn't new, Like it's not all

490
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: that interesting to hear from Thug at this point in time,

491
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: just because we've seen how this has happened before.

492
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there are also rappers who have taken it

493
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 4: to an even greater level, like someone like Draco the

494
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: Ruler who's since passed, but when he was when he

495
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 4: was in jail in LA he recorded an entire album

496
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 4: using the jail phone and it was called Thank You

497
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 4: for Using GTL, which is like the message that comes

498
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 4: up when you're on the phone, so he recorded you know,

499
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 4: entire versus through that. So you know, we could still

500
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 4: see something like that from Thug. You know, there's also,

501
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 4: as we know from this trial and many others, like

502
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 4: a ton of illegal phones going around in in jails

503
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 4: across the country. So there there are ways that I think, like,

504
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 4: you know, who knows how long this thing goes on,

505
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 4: and at some point he maybe he might be itchy

506
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 4: to put something out, So there are you know, there

507
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 4: are stunts. I think there are a lot of eyes

508
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 4: on him, so that probably limits what he can and

509
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 4: can't do. But at a certain point you could see

510
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 4: someone like Thug rebelling against.

511
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 3: Those strictures in terms of support and just sort of

512
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 3: like a view on perspective on young Thug Joe. You've

513
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 3: got sort of an interesting viewpoint because you obviously have

514
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time on the streets in Atlanta

515
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 3: and in the studios to write your book, and just

516
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: somebody who can't come to Atlanta for I mean, you're

517
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 3: basically living here for a couple of years I would

518
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 3: assume writing that book, and but you also obviously work

519
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 3: for the National Record and so you've got this this

520
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 3: wide lens view as well. Do you think there's a

521
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: difference between how people in Atlanta see Young Thug in

522
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 3: this trial and how people nationwide sea Young Thug in

523
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: this trial?

524
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 4: Definitely? I think to the extent that Thug is known nationally.

525
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 4: You know, he played the Grammys with Camilla Cabeo, he

526
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 4: played SNL with you know, the guy from Fun and Gunna,

527
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 4: like right before the indictment. I think Thug is known

528
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 4: as this sort of like uh outray mystical creature. Right.

529
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 4: People know the dress from early on, you know, the

530
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 4: couple dresses, you know, the cover of the mixtape and

531
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 4: and the fashion shoots he did. You know, they know

532
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 4: him as as this sort of whimsical guy with the

533
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 4: crazy voice and you never quite know what he's saying.

534
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 4: You know, it comes on the radio and you know, like,

535
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 4: who's this guy? And you know he played he played

536
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 4: with Travis Barker, you know, on NPR like he's he's

537
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: he has this you know, chameleon like persona and is

538
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 4: almost like funny and playful in this way. But there's

539
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 4: another side of Thug that I think the prosecution is

540
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 4: trying to paint in this and that also people who

541
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 4: may have known him longer or seen him on a

542
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 4: more street level are familiar with which is like, you know,

543
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 4: and it's there in the music if you're really listening.

544
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 5: Uh.

545
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 4: Whether or not that's that's true or not is obviously

546
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 4: what's what's at stake in this trial. But that's like

547
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 4: the you know, the tough guy thug that's uh, a

548
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 4: thug who's like not to be messed with. And he

549
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 4: he built up that persona you know, both himself and

550
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 4: with the people he was around. You know, you have

551
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 4: characters in this trial. You know, someone someone like Pee

552
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: like uh, like Peelie Roscoe, who was convicted in the

553
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 4: Little Wing tour bus shooting that I alluded to earlier

554
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 4: and who's once again wrapped up in this rico. You know,

555
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 4: people people testifying now who have been in and out

556
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 4: of prison, or people you know, indicted alongside Doug who

557
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 4: were already incarcerated. Like there is there's a sense that

558
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 4: you know, there's there's a street level lore about him

559
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 4: that I think Atlanta knows that didn't really trickle up

560
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 4: into the mainstream.

561
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that even came up in a reporting so

562
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: like as you were talking Joe. I was thinking about

563
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: a comment that Bain Joiner gave us that, unfortunately I

564
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: don't think actually made the episode. I don't know how

565
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: I let this slip, but I.

566
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: Might have cut it.

567
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: Sorry, No, you're you know you're good. Those So Bain Joiner,

568
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: for those who don't remember, he is one third of

569
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: a creative consultancy that created like this unofficial slogan for Atlanta,

570
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: which is that Atlanta influences everything, and he's an Atlanta native.

571
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: He was talking about how a whole decade ago, like

572
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: specifically around the Little Waned tour bus incident, how there

573
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: was that lore that you were talking about, Joe, and

574
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: that really it was from people like you had to

575
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: be on the pavement. You're not driving your car through

576
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 1: seventy five eighty five traffic, if you were going through Marta,

577
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: if you're going to the public library. That's where people

578
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: were having these conversations about young Thug and this outsized

579
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: reputation of his, not necessarily for music, but for what

580
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: was supposedly like happening in the streets. So it's interesting.

581
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: It feels like you're our sources check.

582
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: So they say we'll be back to have the break.

583
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: So I'm sort of sitting here thinking and I want

584
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 2: to I'm sorry to take this in a random direction,

585
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: but I've I've been thinking a lot about the cost

586
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: of all of this. The uh. I'm sort of as

587
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 2: we're talking, I'm going through the numbers for what the

588
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: judge makes, what the what every sheriff's deputy makes, whatevery.

589
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: Some of the defense attorneys are on the you know,

590
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 3: on the Fulton County YEP tab.

591
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: The number that I keep coming up in my head

592
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: is five thousand dollars a day.

593
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: That's seems low, though you think it's only five thousand

594
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 3: dollars a day.

595
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: I'm being generous, but still.

596
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: You multiply five thousand a day times times that's the

597
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 3: lowest it could possibly be. Yeah, times, you know, times

598
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 3: four years or whatever. This could be every day.

599
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: Like, it's a minimum cost for ten sheriffs deputies making

600
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: fifty five grand a year, plus a judge, we had

601
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty plus a court reporter or the

602
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: court administrator making you know, eighty, and another like the

603
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: person taking the notes making fifty you know, plus two

604
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: prosecutors sitting at the table. A minimum of five thousand

605
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: a day, So five thousand a day and they've been

606
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: in court I want to say, about three hundred days

607
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: since the start of.

608
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: The trial, including the jury selection. Yeah, and I.

609
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: Can't like to your point, Tommy about stuff being delayed.

610
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: As you're talking about that cost, I'm wondering about how

611
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: that costs multiplies the more cases get delayed. Right because

612
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: as I'm watching this trial specifically with testimony regarding I mean,

613
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: it could have been anybody, investigator David Quinn, Miss Bennett,

614
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: all these Walter Murphy, Everybody's talking about how like it's

615
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: been ten years since like this happened, and when they

616
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: say they don't remember, like honestly, it sounds believable in

617
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: that moment, no matter how much you know, we may

618
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: think that they're trying to dodge like giving the truth.

619
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: So I wonder how that effect multiplies, like over time. So,

620
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: if for example, a trial gets delayed by an entire year,

621
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: how does that affect the justice system from being able

622
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: to deliver a speedy trial. Where if the more time passes,

623
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: the more their memory continues to fade. And so like,

624
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: I wonder how much longer trials after this, even the

625
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: ones that are supposed to be expedient, just like grow

626
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: to where like I don't know, I just feel like

627
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: there's probably some horrifying looking graph that's gonna, you know,

628
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: come up over the next couple of years about like

629
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: how much the justice system is just costing us pero.

630
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: And it's why I keep coming back to this idea

631
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: that because Fannie Willis said at the start of Oliver

632
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: of her term, I'm going to be doing a lot

633
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: of ricos on gangs in Atlanta, and I don't care.

634
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: The papers were going to be clear from the office.

635
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: That's what she told us.

636
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so here we are. And there have been

637
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: a couple of other racketeering cases and gang cases that

638
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: have come through office, but mostly it's not her, Like

639
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: I'm seeing stuff into cab County and Gwynad like one

640
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: in Cobb, a bunch of stuff around the state, none

641
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: involving marquee name rappers, like no bear in mind, like

642
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: I am unaware of any meaningful accusation.

643
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: George.

644
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, well you even think of yf and Lucci like

645
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 4: he was sitting from a year before the YSL case

646
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 4: and then he got a plea deal. You know, is

647
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 4: that plea related to how long the YSL trial was

648
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 4: obviously they were waiting for that to to clear up

649
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: before they they tried Lucci and his crew for what

650
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 4: is basically the flip side of the beef that at

651
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 4: the center of this thing. So even that you know

652
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 4: it's been it's been years and years.

653
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like my thumbnail, guess is from the first indictment

654
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: on the y A cell case. Sitting here, I'm saying

655
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: it's about two million.

656
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 3: Oh man, I think you're low. I think that's low.

657
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 4: Yeah. Also, and think of the incarceration costs on top

658
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 4: of it.

659
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 3: I did not They've been investigating this through twelve years too, so.

660
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: You just from the arrest it would.

661
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: Be fascinating to sit down and figure out magic Lulu that.

662
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think you got to charge that to

663
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 3: the court. They had to pay for that out of pocket.

664
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 2: So the cost per inmate at Fulton County is about

665
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 2: eighteen grand a year, so six left but six times. Yeah,

666
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: Like that's another you're right, that's another.

667
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

668
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 3: I think it's it's going to be tens of millions

669
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 3: at least.

670
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: So I don't think it's going to be tens of millions,

671
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 2: but it doesn't have to be to throw the whole

672
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: system into chaos.

673
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 3: You really don't think it's going to be tens of

674
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 3: millions for like, if you've taken all the total costs

675
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 3: of this, I don't know. It's it seems like it's

676
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 3: going to be a ton well, and.

677
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 4: There's one person who really has is going to have

678
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 4: to answer for this on the ballot.

679
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: Right, and that and that's fine, funny, Yeah, I mean

680
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: this is all for the sake of crime, right, targeting.

681
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: Crime, targeting crime, And that's the thing. I mean they'll

682
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 3: point to the numbers and they'll say crime is down,

683
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: and we've talked about this a million times, and right, like,

684
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 3: the numbers basically show that, yeah, crime's fall in a bunch.

685
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 3: But also the numbers they're pointing back to, and they

686
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 3: did this in our interviews are were artificially spiked because

687
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 3: of COVID. I mean, there was a big rise in crime,

688
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 3: violent crime during COVID.

689
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: I want to put that couple of million dollar number

690
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: in perspective. The District Attorney's office has a budget of

691
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 2: about forty one million dollars, and so one case, one

692
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 2: trial is taking.

693
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 3: Up you know, a significant portion.

694
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,959
Speaker 2: Two and a half percent of the entire budget, which

695
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: is to say they could only do twenty of these

696
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 2: and nothing else, not to.

697
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 4: Mention the other blockbuster case leaving yeah.

698
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: Right, And so I mean we're not talking about insignificant

699
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: amounts of staff, attention and the resources of the the agency.

700
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, it really is. It's like there's

701
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 2: nothing left. Like once you start getting at all of

702
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: the essential necessary doesn't matter what's going on expenses that

703
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: the District Attorney's office is going to rack up just

704
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: at the cost of doing business. They don't have forty

705
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: one million dollars to spend on cases they've got like twenty.

706
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 3: Well, and what what happens if young Thug either gets

707
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 3: off or negotiates a settlement like you know, Wife and

708
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,919
Speaker 3: Luci did where he's time served or something like that.

709
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: I mean, what happens to his reputation? It seems like

710
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 3: as a figure, and Joe, I want to actually ask

711
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 3: you this, but it seems to me that that would

712
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 3: potentially embolden him and make him even even a stronger

713
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 3: player if they think he's in this like allegedly in

714
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 3: this street gang stuff, but also in the music scene,

715
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 3: just like a bigger presence overall right, I mean we

716
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 3: saw we've seen this happen with artists who have have

717
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: beaten the system.

718
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 4: You know, Oh, I mean America loves an outlaw, and

719
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 4: hip hop loves an outlaw. And that's behind these personas

720
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 4: real or fictional in the first place. Right the you know,

721
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 4: think back to Tupac or you know, Snoop beating beating

722
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 4: a murder trial early on in his career. You know,

723
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 4: you know jay Z sort of being tough on in

724
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 4: his way. You know this this only adds. Like this

725
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 4: is if if Thug gets off, you know, and think

726
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 4: of the peak he was at. You know, even when

727
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 4: he was arrested, people thought Thug's career was over five

728
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 4: years before that and he'd hit like a whole new level.

729
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 4: If he gets out again, you know, it's it's like

730
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 4: it's John Gotti the first few times when when when

731
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 4: you get a you get a hung jury or not guilty,

732
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 4: like you know, then then his his his persona. Yeah,

733
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 4: it only grows. And I think the interests that people

734
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 4: will have in whatever he does next. I mean, even

735
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 4: look at Gunna, people said by taking this plea deal,

736
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 4: Gunna was gonna was dead and gone in hip hop

737
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 4: and he's bigger than he's ever been. Uh, not only musically,

738
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 4: but sort of like persona wise. People want to know

739
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 4: what's going on with this guy, how he how he

740
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 4: sort of slithered his way out of this, even if

741
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 4: it was in a way that people initially thought was

742
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 4: going to harm his credibility. I think you know, we've

743
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 4: seen now that people's memories are short, and this trial

744
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 4: is long. It's so long that Ghanna has been both

745
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 4: dead and reincarnated at the top of the charts before

746
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 4: before we being even gotten to the good witnesses.

747
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: Georgia, I thought this would interest you because I guess

748
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: prior to young Duggud and friends being being arrested, there

749
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: was a show at Stave Farm Arena, right, you were

750
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: closely monitoring it. You were closely monitoring it trying to

751
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: see whether the show would still go on in the

752
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: aftermath of everything. Ghana is going on tour in May.

753
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: It wraps in June in Atlanta at State Farm Arena.

754
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 3: Oh my word, that is all.

755
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: I just wanted to point out the irony too.

756
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 3: Circle.

757
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and nobody is saying, oh God, we can't have this.

758
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, we need to foil the extra security costs paid

759
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 4: by the county for that one.

760
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: There you go, Oh, I would love to see paid

761
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: for by the county. So that's the thing. I doubt it.

762
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 2: I think state farm folks would be like, no, like

763
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 2: write a check, like just raise the ticket price by

764
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: a dollar and hire all the off duty sheriff's deputies

765
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: in town all.

766
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 4: But it would be interesting to see how Atlanta hip

767
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 4: hop responds to that. I assume it's It's goin his

768
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 4: first rail show in the city since since his plea.

769
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 4: But he's but people are slowly coming back to his side.

770
00:39:59,120 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 3: You know.

771
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 4: He's as a video with offset from Egos that came

772
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 4: out a couple of weeks ago. They appeared together live.

773
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 3: You know.

774
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 4: I think you got to imagine people are starting to

775
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 4: come out of the wings and think like, okay, Like

776
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 4: is it is it cool to collaborate with Ghanna again?

777
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: Like that?

778
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 4: You know it? Only it only takes one and then

779
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 4: two and then three and then and then people forget.

780
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: It's like a domino effect. So that's so interesting because

781
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: we've been wondering this entire time and making the podcast one,

782
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: what sort of chill effect this trial would have on

783
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: crime in Atlanta? And then two, what sort of chill

784
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: effect this might have on music that is coming out

785
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: of Atlanta. So, I mean, Joe, I've kind of had

786
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: my head buried under the sand and trying to keep

787
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: up with all the trial proceedings. So I'm mostly steeped

788
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: in Alanta trapp nostalgia at the moment. But what's been

789
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: going on in Atlanta. It seems like shit's more breezing

790
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: than it's ever been.

791
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the idea that you know, rap lyrics

792
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 4: would be would come from a come from a more

793
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 4: guarded place now that they were being used in criminal indictments,

794
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 4: like the issue is, And I think this goes to

795
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 4: the broader question of crime. One Rico case against one

796
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 4: alleged gang and one part of Atlanta does not rid

797
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 4: the city of the circumstances that birth this kind of music.

798
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 4: There are always going to be kids from nothing who

799
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 4: feel like they have nothing to lose, who want to

800
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 4: let out, you know, the basest, you know, most vicious

801
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 4: emotions over a beat. That's what hip hop is. That's

802
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 4: what Atlanta rap is. And if you pay attention at

803
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 4: all to the underground, to the unsigned talent coming out

804
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 4: of Atlanta, as Christina said, like it is. It is

805
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 4: as vicious as you know, lyrically and sonically violent as

806
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 4: it's ever been. I think the drill effect around the country,

807
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 4: you know, ten years on from Chief Keef in Chicago,

808
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 4: Like is that sound and that super hyper local, nihilistic

809
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 4: violent subject matter is like still what is extremely popular?

810
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 4: I thought, you know, maybe we were coming out the

811
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 4: other side of it, probably unrelated to the thug trial,

812
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 4: but you think of someone. You know, there's a buzzing

813
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 4: artist out of out of Atlanta right now called Baby

814
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 4: Kia and his viral song is called crash Him.

815
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, qualking down?

816
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 3: What that says?

817
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: Ask a bullet said, so I can't white it.

818
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 4: Let a hate please put up walking down?

819
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: Ask do you love that being type?

820
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: Put off mask and sud and tell him not Dan

821
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: walk them down.

822
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 7: On what happened?

823
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 4: And the first line in the song is like I'm

824
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 4: walking on Cleveland with that stick like it's straight out

825
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 4: of this trial, you know, And he's naming names, you

826
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 4: know there there's there's specifics in this song. I don't know,

827
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 4: you know, if they do or don't refer to to

828
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 4: real situations. But but the idea that a song like

829
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 4: this exists with the thug indictment as headline news in

830
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 4: the city. Like, I think that's a that's as much

831
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 4: of a middle finger to the system as you could imagine.

832
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 2: Let me tell you. I like, so, I guess I've

833
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: got to like the folks who care about what I

834
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 2: think come from a particular demographic. Like they are older

835
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: black guys who can shout at clouds and get off

836
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: my lawn a little bit, a little bit, not all

837
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: of them, not most of them, but enough enough that

838
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: they will come up to me and say, this drill music.

839
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: I am worried about this drill music, and to some degree,

840
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: to the degree that the street is talking to me.

841
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: And please don't assume that the street is talking to me.

842
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: But like, I think there's a disconnect between the industry,

843
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 2: the music industry, and the underground music that you're talking about.

844
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 2: You don't have to have a label to make music

845
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: like baby Kia, Like anybody can put that up and

846
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 2: so like, even though the labels in the industry may

847
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 2: be like whatever I would, I would here.

848
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 4: So I wouldn't be so sure about that. Though, I

849
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 4: think the amount of the amount of Atlanta rappers, you know,

850
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 4: with one hundred thousand YouTube views, who I see on Instagram,

851
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 4: in in label offices, taking meetings. You know, there's there's

852
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 4: there's never going to be a shortage of business people

853
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 4: who want to make money off of street level talent.

854
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 4: I think, you know, you might be quieter than it

855
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 4: used to be. You know, you're not gonna You're not

856
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 4: gonna They're not going to pop a bottle of champagne

857
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 4: and post it to Sony Corporate Instagram. Maybe it's done

858
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 4: through an imprint or you know, a JV label or whatever,

859
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 4: or it's a distribution deal, you know, with a company

860
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 4: like Empire. You know, like there there are there are

861
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 4: a lot of different ways to do this more creatively

862
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 4: I think than there.

863
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: Used to be.

864
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 4: But also, the labels have never really been held responsible

865
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 4: for for any role that they have in this Uh

866
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 4: you know, we've we've heard from the beginning of this

867
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 4: trial people saying, well, you know, why isn't anyone holding

868
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 4: the white executives responsible? And that continued. I was one

869
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 4: of those mostly mostly that's a mostly rhetorical questions.

870
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 3: You know, Well, it's interesting because HYSL, you know, is

871
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 3: obviously a label and I signed up a long time

872
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 3: ago for these text messages, it would like update you

873
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 3: and they had new YSL things, and I get those still,

874
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 3: and it's kind of weird to get like a regular

875
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 3: marketing text about whysl's stuff when all this stuff's going on,

876
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 3: And I wonder, like, is the label still basically functioning

877
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 3: the same way or has it been impacted dramatically by this?

878
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 3: Do you know?

879
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 4: I think a label like YSL is so dependent on

880
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 4: its principle on young Thug basically, you know, it's like

881
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 4: it's basically a miracle when you can get a second

882
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 4: artist on an artist's imprint to pop at the level

883
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 4: of Gunna, you know, and the fact that they got

884
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 4: gonna to be as big as he is and continue

885
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 4: to be, you know, presumably he still has some sort

886
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 4: of contractual relationship with YSL despite the whatever distance there

887
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 4: there there may be personally, but between the people involved.

888
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 4: So I think, like often, you know, you think of

889
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 4: someone like Unfun Thug's brother who who who was involved

890
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 4: in this case, and I think as back in back

891
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 4: in prison, having violated his probation. You know, most of

892
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 4: the artists under HYSL, other than Gunn, are Thug's closest friends.

893
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 4: And collaborators. You know, there are people who are attached

894
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 4: directly to him and who he was giving a chance

895
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 4: to directly, you know. So I think it's very hard

896
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: for a label that exists because of one man to

897
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 4: succeed without that man. But that doesn't mean there aren't

898
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 4: artists trying, you know. You think of someone like Strick

899
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 4: who's out here, I think, trying to carry the torch.

900
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 4: You know, there are people, there are always people like that.

901
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 4: But I think thug was was the engine and HYSL

902
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 4: only exists. You know, a label gives Thug YSL as

903
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 4: basically like a bonus to say not only do we

904
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 4: want you, but we want your friends and family too.

905
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 3: And I guess on that same note, George, is why

906
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 3: sell the gang leged gang? Is that still functioning if

907
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 3: they believe it's out there?

908
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: From what folks have told me, And again take this

909
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: with a grain of salt, like YSL is a function

910
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: of Cleveland Avenue. Like as long as Cleveland Avenue exists,

911
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 2: a kid who's growing up there is going to call

912
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: himself a YSL gang member if they're going to be

913
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: ganging at all.

914
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 3: So it's just like saying where you're from basically, but

915
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 3: that's that runs counter to everything that the proces.

916
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 4: But that's why this is such a tricky case because

917
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 4: these hybrid these hybrid gangs, these these clicks, you know,

918
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 4: the way the way this culture works in Atlanta. It

919
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 4: is not the typical way that people think of, you know,

920
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 4: a top down organization, a mafia style organization. That is

921
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 4: not what this is. And I think that's the struggle

922
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 4: that the prosecutor's office has here, is explaining this sort

923
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 4: of amorphous thing in a way that tracks for a

924
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 4: jury while also saying that thug is at the top

925
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 4: of this pyramid.

926
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be really interesting to see how the

927
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: jury responds to DK's testimony, in particular, because he did

928
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: touch on this right so so much of that testimony

929
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: was about, okay, so like how many of these defendants

930
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: are YSL? How do they become part of YSL? And

931
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 1: how does this how does all this shit work? First

932
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: he looks around the courtroom and he's like, Okay, I

933
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: know maybe like two or three people here. The rest

934
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: of them, I have no clue. And like, literally, let's

935
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: see Dae Simone Hilton, She's going through she's going through

936
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: the list. She's like, Okay, well, how do you know

937
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: this person? Well? I know them from the studio versus

938
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: Cleveland Avenue versus. Like if somebody was on the west side,

939
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: like DK like would scrunch up his face and be like,

940
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: I have no fucking clue. I never go to that

941
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: side of town. And then meanwhile, is this amazing quote

942
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: about how like how do you like? I guess the

943
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: question was how do you become part of YSL? And

944
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 1: dude was like, I don't know, Like you could literally

945
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: just go and say it. You know, you could say

946
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: your WHI sold as much as much as you could

947
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: say that you were like Muslim or Christian? Was why

948
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: sell affiliated with any national monkeys?

949
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: Yeah?

950
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 4: Who or what?

951
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 8: I don't think it's just blood. I don't think it's

952
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 8: like no particular individual.

953
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 4: So you said it was just blood.

954
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 3: It was blood. Cryops.

955
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 8: You could be anything. Wise, you could be Muslim, Christian?

956
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 8: Why I say it wasn't no you gotta be the

957
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 8: to be wise. No, it was just you want to

958
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 8: be wise, be wise here.

959
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 4: Nobody said you can't be wise here.

960
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: And I'm just thinking about like how the jury's going

961
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: to receive all that now, Granted, they don't have to

962
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: take his word on it. But if that's going to

963
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: be coupled with all these explanations about what a hybrid

964
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: gang is, like that's a really tall order.

965
00:49:58,280 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

966
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 3: I mean we talked about that when we were looking it,

967
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 3: like we were listening to these witnesses describe what a

968
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 3: hybrid gang is, you know, these police officials and these detectives,

969
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 3: and it sounded really squishy. It was like, Oh, it's this,

970
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 3: it's also this, it's also this, it's it felt like

971
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 3: a very convenient, you know, hole that you could basically

972
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 3: put any type of peg into. And I feel like

973
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 3: that if I was a jur I mean, we've talked

974
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: about this already, but if I was a juror, I

975
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 3: would be like, reasonable doubt is what I'm holding this too.

976
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 3: And I don't know forgetting there.

977
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 2: Right, I want to come back to something really quick.

978
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 2: So you referenced baby Kia and Strict and you are, again,

979
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: a mighty journalist with the mighty New York Times, and

980
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 2: you were referencing street rappers who like I mean, you'd

981
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: have to google, Like I mean, if you were like

982
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 2: Joe Listener from Marietta.

983
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, I'm saying, I'm like, I might as well

984
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 4: be making these guys.

985
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: Up like three million views on YouTube though. That is

986
00:50:59,080 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 3: what I saw that.

987
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 2: It's just like this distance between a signed member of

988
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: the label YSL who's got a distribution deal and is

989
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: getting pushed by like Sony Records or something like that,

990
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 2: and a baby Kia who's got you know, a bunch

991
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 2: of YouTube views like is small if they can, if

992
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 2: they're both capable, if you are a person who is

993
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 2: capable of registering that they are culturally relevant, and somebody

994
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 2: that a New York Times news reporter could talk about

995
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: like baby like this, the distance between the street and

996
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 2: some boardroom in New York is not is not great anymore.

997
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 4: And that's wrapped today. That's impot today. That's and specifically

998
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 4: in the streaming era, in the digital in the digital time,

999
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 4: like this is. And this is why I think we've

1000
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 4: seen so much death and violence and court cases and

1001
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 4: indictments within him. It's like the bar has fallen to

1002
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 4: where you can call yourself a rapper, you know, and

1003
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 4: and you can have a viable career with no guidance

1004
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 4: and no chance to move out of your bad neighborhood,

1005
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 4: and you know, like this is this is what I

1006
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 4: wanted to document in my book Rap Capital, Like this,

1007
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 4: this stuff happens, and especially in a city like Atlanta,

1008
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 4: which is known for creating stars over and over again,

1009
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 4: there was this gold rush when all of a sudden

1010
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 4: the music business was booming again, and any kid on

1011
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,479
Speaker 4: the street who appears in the background of a little

1012
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 4: baby video could get a deal for a couple tens

1013
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 4: of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and

1014
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 4: even more. You know, you get a verse from young

1015
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 4: thug and all of a sudden, you're you're signing for

1016
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 4: a million bucks. But a million bucks is not a

1017
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 4: lifetime is worth of money, you know, And these things,

1018
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 4: these things grow quickly, but they crumble just as quickly.

1019
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 4: And I think that's a lot of the that's a

1020
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 4: lot of the tension that we see here, especially when

1021
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 4: you pair that with the lifestyle that you know, people

1022
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,240
Speaker 4: want to see in this kind of music, the od

1023
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 4: crash and lifestyle.

1024
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 3: So it's less that more rappers are alleged gangsters and

1025
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 3: more that alleged gangsters are getting into rap.

1026
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 4: That's definitely what the what the Prosecutor's office says you

1027
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 4: know that that increasingly these hybrid gangs are driven by rappers.

1028
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 4: You know, I have you know, we had my colleague

1029
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 4: Richard Fosson and I and in the piece we did

1030
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 4: you know the Marissa you guys mentioned earlier? Gang investigators

1031
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 4: said the new color way, the new colors are are

1032
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 4: the rappers and people line up behind them. So that's

1033
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 4: the case that they are trying to make. But it's

1034
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 4: not so simple, you know, you think of you know,

1035
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,879
Speaker 4: even trying to explain to the jury what the DA

1036
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 4: has done here that like some of y s l

1037
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 4: or bloods and some of them are crips, Like that

1038
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 4: doesn't compute to people whose version who's you know, who's

1039
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 4: whose understanding of gangs comes from nineties or early two

1040
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 4: thousand's popular culture. It's like it's completely at odds. So

1041
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 4: there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in trying to tell

1042
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 4: a linear story here.

1043
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 3: More on the way stay with us. I feel like

1044
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:22,959
Speaker 3: we're wrapping it up right, guys. It feels like we're

1045
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,879
Speaker 3: taking our final lap here. How do we finish this thing?

1046
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 3: Two years?

1047
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: What do we do?

1048
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do at the end.

1049
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: Here, Let's start with this like I will still be

1050
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 2: writing from time to time for Rolling Stone about this case.

1051
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 2: I've I've taken a long term, long term like a year.

1052
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 2: I have a one year contract writing about democracy for

1053
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 2: The Guardian, and I'm covering the South. That doesn't mean

1054
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,240
Speaker 2: that I'm walking entirely away from watching the Young Thug trial.

1055
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 2: I'm just not going to be there every day, sitting

1056
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: there listening to testimony. I'm going to catch up, like

1057
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 2: and as the real the important things come in, like

1058
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 2: like you know, when Little Duke testifies or if Kenneth

1059
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 2: Copelnch takes the stand, like I'll know to come in

1060
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 2: and I'll write something and I hopefully listener you can

1061
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 2: find that. And like, I'm not sure what Christina's plans are.

1062
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 1: George, we talked about this. I have no idea.

1063
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 3: All right, your roll twenty two is still valid. You

1064
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 3: know you're still going to just hang out for fun in.

1065
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 4: Court, Christina. I know, I know you'll stay at it too.

1066
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, however you can, however I can. I mean,

1067
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: this case has just proven to be so much more

1068
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: than I could have anticipated for when Young Thug was

1069
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: arrested and when Gunna was arrested, I you know, I

1070
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: had this perception of how like this was almost sort

1071
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: of like a this was a trial concerning like a

1072
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 1: rap superstar and that his music was being scrutinized and that,

1073
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 1: and like part of that is true, but so much

1074
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: of what this trial is and compass it's been like

1075
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,280
Speaker 1: the most complicated local story in Atlanta that I've certainly

1076
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 1: tried to follow. Like it covers, like, you know, just

1077
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: a decade's worth of the city trying to wrap its

1078
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: mind around how the city is changing in general, and

1079
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: like who gets left behind as a result, and how

1080
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: the grind dynamics sort of reflect that. I think, you know,

1081
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: my mind is just like completely scrambled up on this

1082
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: whole thing. So I feel like I have no choice

1083
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: in a way than other to keep up with this

1084
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: trial because I literally don't know anything at this point.

1085
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 4: Is I Yeah, I'll say I took I took parental

1086
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 4: leave recently in the middle of this trial, and you know,

1087
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 4: from covering it at the times, which I wasn't doing

1088
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 4: in the way that you guys are. You know, some

1089
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 4: of you guys are day in and day out. But

1090
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 4: I was swooping in and I and you know, I

1091
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 4: was thinking like, oh, maybe it'll be over by the

1092
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 4: time I get back, like I'm going to miss writing

1093
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 4: the Verdict story for the New York Times. And yet

1094
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 4: here we are. I'm about about ready to come back

1095
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 4: back to work and we're not even close. But I

1096
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 4: do just want to shout out the people like you guys,

1097
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 4: George Christina, you know been covering this at at the

1098
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 4: ground level. All the local reporters who are doing such

1099
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 4: a great job. You know, Michael Siden at WSP, you

1100
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 4: know Joseph Papp and Shaddy Abuse at AJAC, you know

1101
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 4: Jewel Wicker covering for national outlets, you know, and then

1102
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 4: people people coming in and out, you know Kathy and

1103
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 4: Megan who you guys have had on the show, and

1104
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 4: you know it's there's really I think gonna be a

1105
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 4: cohort of people who stuck this out and documented it

1106
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 4: for history, and I do think it is important on

1107
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 4: multiple levels. So just shout out to you guys for

1108
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 4: this show, and to everybody else sort of in the

1109
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 4: courtroom and on the live stream every day, Well.

1110
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 3: Thank you so much that I mean, you can't really

1111
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 3: end better than that, right, And I will say we

1112
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 3: were rewarded for this We really appreciate the listeners because

1113
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 3: you know this this show. We haven't even mentioned this,

1114
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 3: but this show is nominated for an amb for Best

1115
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 3: Documentary Podcast for the year. We just got back. That's

1116
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,479
Speaker 3: why we missed us. That's why we missed a week

1117
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 3: for the show is because we were out at the

1118
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 3: ceremony that we lost, of course, but hey, it felt

1119
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 3: really good to be nominated. And so I think the

1120
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 3: response to this show, you know, has surprised us as well.

1121
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 3: We're just three fools that started sitting behind microphones and

1122
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 3: making something and so we've been really thrilled with everything

1123
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 3: that we were.

1124
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think people, to Joe's point, might not

1125
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: even fully understand the repercussions of everything that's happening now.

1126
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: But like, I'm confident that a couple of years removed,

1127
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: like we're really gonna like come to terms, which is

1128
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,439
Speaker 1: how much this trial actually means. And then maybe that's

1129
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: when we'll actually win Best Documentary Podcast, once people realize

1130
00:58:44,840 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: how important we actually are. King Slime is a production

1131
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: of iHeart Podcasts and Heirloom Media.

1132
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 2: It's written and produced by George Cheaty, Christina Lee, and

1133
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 2: Tommy Andres.

1134
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: Mixing sound design and original music by Evan Tyre and

1135
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: Taylor Chakoi.

1136
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: The executive producer and editor is Tommy Andres.

1137
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:21,959
Speaker 1: Our theme music is by Doune Deal.

1138
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 2: For more shows from iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1139
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.