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Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace, get up, got us, don't

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Speaker 1: run if his carnal or share hard dressing. All right,

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Speaker 1: this is all through the officer. Um, can I get

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Speaker 1: any amos um u? I'm in number um had a

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Speaker 1: duty police? Yes, you both okay? What's the address? I'm

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Speaker 1: at apartment number fourteen seventy eight. I'm in fourteen seventy eight.

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Speaker 1: And what's the address there? Um it's twelve ten off

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Speaker 1: Lamar four ten seventy eight. Yeah, I'm in. All through

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Speaker 1: the officer. I thought it was in my apartment, and

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Speaker 1: I shot a guy thinking that he was thinking it

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Speaker 1: was my apartment. He's awesomeone, Yes, I thought it was

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Speaker 1: my apartment. UM, oh my god, I'm sorry. And where

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Speaker 1: are you at right now? I'm in What do you

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Speaker 1: mean I'm inside the apartment with him. Come on, what's

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Speaker 1: your name? I'm Amber Geiger. I mean see Grace, this

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us right

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Speaker 1: now in a court of law. This trial is unfolding

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Speaker 1: the trial of a cop. Amber Geiger, age thirty one.

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Speaker 1: And you hear the first thing she says on the

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Speaker 1: nine one one call, I'm an off duty officer. That's

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Speaker 1: the first thing she says. Thirty one year old Geiger

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Speaker 1: says her defense is I'm in the wrong apartment. But

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Speaker 1: whatever her defense may be, she is charged with murder

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Speaker 1: in the shooting death of a young twenty six year

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Speaker 1: old male executive Botham Jean, who was in his own apartment.

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Speaker 1: She'll act sing and bam he gets shot dead. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a listen to more of that nine one one call.

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Speaker 1: I've already got a ton of observations and an all

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Speaker 1: star panel to tell me how wrong I am. Listen.

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Speaker 1: I'm Amber Geiger. I need to get me. I'm I'm okay.

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Speaker 1: We have hoop on the way. I know, but I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna lose my job. I thought it was my apartment, Okay, man,

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Speaker 1: hold on, okay, stay with me. Okay, I am, I am,

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Speaker 1: I need, I need a need to supervid me. Hey bud,

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Speaker 1: hey body. I thought it was my apartment. I understand.

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Speaker 1: We have helped out. Hurry please, they're on their way.

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Speaker 1: I I thought it was my apartment. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was my apartment, just one apart on the first word. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I understand, No, it was my apartment, but my apartment.

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Speaker 1: You were hearing more of that nine on one call.

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Speaker 1: Will play a little bit more in just a moment.

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Speaker 1: But let's introduce our panel this morning, and newcomer joining us.

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Speaker 1: Let the hazing begin. New York defense attorney Julie randallmine

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Speaker 1: no stranger to a courtroom, forensics expert, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville

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Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet that makes

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Speaker 1: me want to read it immediately, Blood Beneath my Feet

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Speaker 1: on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan another newcomer, twenty seven years

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Metro major case detective, SWAT officer, retired lawyer, municipal judge.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what has this man not done? James shell

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Speaker 1: Nutt with me and renowned psychologists joining me out of Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: and boy, she never has like a business out there,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. But first to Dave mac Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, and before I go one more minute,

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Speaker 1: yesterday I got onto Crime online dot Com where you

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Speaker 1: can watch this trial live, and I got sucked into it.

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Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be working on my book manuscript. I

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Speaker 1: got nowhere because every time they would say something, I

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Speaker 1: had to hear what they were going to say next.

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Let's just

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Speaker 1: start at the beginning with the night of the incident. Now,

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Speaker 1: this Amber Geiger I noticed in a nine one one call.

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Speaker 1: The first thing she says is, sorry, Dave, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: have to go the shrink on this doctor Bethany Marshall.

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Speaker 1: The first thing she says is I'm gonna lose my job.

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Speaker 1: What about the dead guy? Well, it's obviously very self referential, right,

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Speaker 1: She's thinking about herself and she's not thinking about him,

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Speaker 1: which tells me something about her frame of mind when

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Speaker 1: she was heading to his apartment, that she may have

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Speaker 1: been in some kind of a frenzied state having to

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Speaker 1: do with something that was going on internally for her.

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Speaker 1: About Dame Intersex. Wait wait, wait, you mean hersex saying

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Speaker 1: Dave mac didn't come out in court. She was sexting

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Speaker 1: with her partner. Did that mean her her police officer

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Speaker 1: partner or her boyfriend or her girlfriend? Who? Well, never mind,

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Speaker 1: Jackie's her head is spinning off her neck. She's saying

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Speaker 1: it was her police officer that she's sexting with. Martin

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Speaker 1: Rivera has actually been her partner on the police force

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Speaker 1: for a long time, and they were involved in an

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Speaker 1: intimate sexual relationship and in fact, you know she gave

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Speaker 1: Matt Dave, Matt, you know, why do you have to

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Speaker 1: say it like that? Why can't you just say they're dating?

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Speaker 1: Why is everything about sex with you? But you know

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Speaker 1: the texting dirty Matt, Sex is not dirty? Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: I hope you haven't told your children anything different. Are

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Speaker 1: they gonna grow up and have to get lyned to

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Speaker 1: see doctor Bethany Marshall? But I agree with you sexy

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Speaker 1: first of all, doctor Bethany Marshall. Having a relationship a

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Speaker 1: romantic take a cue from this, Dave mac A romantic

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Speaker 1: relationship with a co worker is a bad idea. It's

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Speaker 1: a bad idea, very bad because it leaves out of

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Speaker 1: it your role as a police officer, the need to

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Speaker 1: be alert, the need to be on guard. And this

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Speaker 1: could be a cue yet another clue as to her

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Speaker 1: state of mind when she went to the wrong apartment.

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Speaker 1: That this is not a woman who was very clear

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Speaker 1: or clean in her relationships and her motivations. Her relationship

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Speaker 1: are a little messy, right, and so what happened in

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Speaker 1: her feelings towards Baltham If she had a neighbor complaint

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Speaker 1: or she was upset with him about something. That This

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Speaker 1: was not a woman who was clear and direct in

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Speaker 1: her roles and motivations. Jelie Ndelman, somewhat of a newcomer today,

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Speaker 1: has joined us once before Jelie Randelman as doctor Bethany

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Speaker 1: Marshall was saying, keep your mind clear, especially as a cop,

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Speaker 1: and not be sexting. That that was the problem. You know,

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Speaker 1: that reminds me of Jelie. I'm sure you remember the

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Speaker 1: hot card baby keeper. Ye. Justin Ross Harris, you read

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Speaker 1: my mind. That's scaring me. I don't like that when

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Speaker 1: the defense attorney can read what I'm thinking. But you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right. He was sexting I think six or eight.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I was just writing about him from my book.

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Speaker 1: I was talking about PS Don't Be a Victim comes

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Speaker 1: out in February. But he was sexting I think six

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Speaker 1: to eight women at the same time. Well, of course,

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Speaker 1: married to a beautiful young lady. But that aside sexting

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Speaker 1: while you're walking or getting out of your car or working.

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Speaker 1: It gets you nowhere, Julie, and correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: But when I attended law school and throughout my trial career.

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Speaker 1: Mistake of fact is not a defense. For instance, if

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Speaker 1: I crossed the state line with a truckload of cocaine

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Speaker 1: and when they stopped me, I say, oh, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was turnip roots, Mistake of fact is not a

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Speaker 1: defense under the law. If for a defense is I

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Speaker 1: thought I was in my apartment, that's not gonna work.

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Speaker 1: But I think it is a defense in that state.

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Speaker 1: I think there is an exception. But keep it. Mind

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Speaker 1: one thing. So if I'm not telling you I sexed,

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Speaker 1: but if I was sexing, I wouldn't have a gun

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Speaker 1: on me, so I wouldn't have the risk. I think

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Speaker 1: you do. I think you do. I think you do,

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Speaker 1: or you would not have even said that. But okay,

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Speaker 1: not judging, not judging at all. But what did you say, Jackie?

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Speaker 1: And I got so carried away by the fact that

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Speaker 1: you just confessed it sexting, But go ahead, what were

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Speaker 1: you saying? The differences is I'm not carrying a gun

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Speaker 1: with me, so she has a loaded weapon when she's

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Speaker 1: not paying attention to where she's going. And so if

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Speaker 1: I come to my door and there's a burglar, or

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Speaker 1: I think there's a burglar, I'm going to run away.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to have a gun and start shooting

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Speaker 1: someone and still be distracted by the fact that I'm

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Speaker 1: sexting with my boyfriend. There's a difference. You just made

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Speaker 1: me think of something, Julie Rendelman. Everybody, I'm giving Julie

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Speaker 1: Rendelman a hard time, but she but she is a

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Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyer. Okay, she she knows what she's talking about.

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Speaker 1: To James shell Nutt, twenty seven years with Atlanta Metro

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Speaker 1: Major Case Detectives Squat officer. It goes on and on

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Speaker 1: and on. James, thank you for being with us. What

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Speaker 1: Julie said just brought something to mind. I'm want to

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Speaker 1: follow up with you, Joe Scott on this. But she

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Speaker 1: sees she realizes her door I guess is unlocked or

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Speaker 1: a jar. Something is different. I guess she didn't notice

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Speaker 1: she was standing on a bright red doormat that Jane

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Speaker 1: bought to make his apartment entrance look different from everybody else's.

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Speaker 1: She did not have that. The number is displayed near

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Speaker 1: the door. But she had to stop James shell Nutt

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Speaker 1: and pull her gun. Now, wouldn't that be enough time

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Speaker 1: right there to notice she was not in her apartment.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know about that. You know, supposedly

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Speaker 1: this was at night. It was not done in the daylight.

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Speaker 1: She is tired coming home from work. You know, officers

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Speaker 1: also experienced a lot of times what is called tactically

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Speaker 1: his tunnel vision. You walk into an unexpected situation, you

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Speaker 1: perceived an immediate serious threat. She believed, truly that she

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Speaker 1: was going into her own apartment. She logically believed that

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Speaker 1: someone was in there and lawfully burglarizing it. She probably

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Speaker 1: locked in a tunnel vision and excluded other factors. That's

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Speaker 1: the common danger that occurs to police officers they're in

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Speaker 1: a tactical situation like that. It sounds like a lot

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Speaker 1: of cop talk. You know how hard it was for

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Speaker 1: me to get police officers to talk like regular people.

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Speaker 1: Had the same problem with medical examiner's crime lab people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you go into warp four, I assume you're

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Speaker 1: a Star Trek fan and nobody knows what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have to break that down, but first take

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Speaker 1: a listen to k x as anchor Meredith Land. Prosecutors

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Speaker 1: focused on text messages exchanged between Geiger and Rivera, including

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Speaker 1: some that happened while Geiger was on the phone with

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Speaker 1: nine one one the night of the shooting. Geiger and

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Speaker 1: Rivera they deleted them they were recovered, but when asked

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Speaker 1: on the stand why Rivera deleted them, he said that

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Speaker 1: he did so because he didn't want to relive what

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Speaker 1: happened that night. But some civil rights attorneys are calling

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Speaker 1: for him to be investigated. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: As she's leaving the substation at nine thirty pm, she

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Speaker 1: sends a message, a text message actually it's a Snapchat

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Speaker 1: message with a text associated with it to her partner,

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Speaker 1: Martin Rivera, and she says, want to touch So I

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Speaker 1: think it's important for me to take a moment and

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Speaker 1: let you know something else. Amber Geiger had been with

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Speaker 1: CRT about a year and a half. Most of that

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Speaker 1: time she worked with Martin Rivera. Their relationship was more

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Speaker 1: than just professional. For about the last year they had

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Speaker 1: been intimate, and that relationship kind of ebbed and flow.

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Speaker 1: Coming upon more recently into September, it looks like that

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Speaker 1: intimate part of their relationship was kind of ramping back up.

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Speaker 1: But we know from the text messages. Starting at about

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Speaker 1: five fifty five pm, Martina Doherty left. Remember I told

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Speaker 1: you had an event to go to. Starting about five pm,

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Speaker 1: they begin a text exchange. She's sitting on the prisoner

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Speaker 1: at headquarters. He's wherever it is that he is, and

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Speaker 1: a text exchange begins. This is just a sample. I

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Speaker 1: need you to know this. They were talking multiple times

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Speaker 1: throughout the evening, by text, by snapchat, and by MMS messages.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing opening statements. Guys, it's happening right now

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Speaker 1: in a court of law. This female cop on trial

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Speaker 1: for the shooting death of a guy, a young executive,

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Speaker 1: twenty six year old Botham Jane thank you with accounting firm.

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Speaker 1: And he's in his apartment just chilling, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden he gets shot dead. Joining me in all

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Speaker 1: our panel Julie Rendelman, Joe Scott Morgan, James shell Nutt,

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, and Dave Matt Crime online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter. And you can watch the trial along with

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Speaker 1: us at crime online dot Com. We put a big

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Speaker 1: banner across the top. Click here to watch the trial live.

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Speaker 1: You know, um, Dave Mack, what else were they saying

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Speaker 1: on their texts? It was very very direct, actually, Nancy

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Speaker 1: and they were trying to set up a meet at

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Speaker 1: sex opportunity to hook up. They both in these text

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Speaker 1: messages said they were horny. That was a term. Oh

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, well what They both actually texted back

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Speaker 1: and forth saying, I am horney, Okay, Dave Matt. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that I needed you to be that blunt,

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Speaker 1: but the reality is that's what the jury is hearing.

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Speaker 1: And you know, to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, jacksonvill

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Speaker 1: State University, You've been in front of a lot of juries,

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Speaker 1: and I remember, I remember distinctly the first time I

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Speaker 1: had a stand in front of a jury and I

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Speaker 1: was I had to tell the jury what a defendant

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Speaker 1: said in a statement. It had every curse word, every

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Speaker 1: derogatory slur you could think of, every single word, the

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Speaker 1: P word, the C word, the N word, the F word,

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Speaker 1: using the lord's name in vain. I set them all

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Speaker 1: except for the N word. I can bring myself to

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Speaker 1: spit that out. But long story short, what was bad

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Speaker 1: about it was the next time I had to stand

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Speaker 1: in front of the jury, just tripped off my tongue, like,

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Speaker 1: no problem in this case. The jury is going to

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Speaker 1: hear a lot that they're not ready for. But when

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Speaker 1: they see the autopsy report and they see that should

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Speaker 1: be a sobering experience and all the talk of being

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Speaker 1: horny aside. That's what this case is about. Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 1: What were the injuries to Botham Jean Well. He sustained

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Speaker 1: a gunshot wounds to his body. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that is significant here is determining, uh, first off,

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Speaker 1: the range of fire, how far away he was from

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Speaker 1: the end of the muzzle when she actually fired into

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Speaker 1: his body, and also the angle at which she fired.

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Speaker 1: And I think this has already come into question, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Was he posturing in a position like in an attack

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Speaker 1: position where he's upright, he's got his hands maybe cast forward.

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Speaker 1: Is he ducking like looking for cover? Is she firing

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Speaker 1: down from a from a higher angle that's striking him?

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Speaker 1: And this is going to because listen, the only the

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Speaker 1: only person that we have that can bear witness to

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Speaker 1: this is her, and of course we don't know she's

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Speaker 1: actually going to testify, probably not and her statement, uh,

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Speaker 1: did she fired down into his body or was he

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Speaker 1: over her when she fired? And that's going to be

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Speaker 1: the question that both the prosecution and the defense are

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Speaker 1: going to have to dig into relative to this case. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the trajectory path of that bullet. To Julie Randelman, veteran

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Speaker 1: New York defense lawyer, I hear what Joe Scott is saying,

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Speaker 1: and I believe that if she were over him firing,

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Speaker 1: depending on the trajectory path of the bullet, it will

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Speaker 1: exacerbate the facts. But in my mind, the issue is

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Speaker 1: the defense of mistake of fact. You just can't argue, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I thought so and so was an intruder in my apartment,

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Speaker 1: so I shot him dead. I thought I was in

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Speaker 1: my mistake a fact is never a defense under the law. Now,

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Speaker 1: it may be that the jury buys into it and

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Speaker 1: gives her a lesser charge, but there's it's not like accident,

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Speaker 1: where an accident is a complete defense. Yeah, self defense,

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Speaker 1: if it can be proven, is a defense. Mistake of fact,

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Speaker 1: it's not a defense. I think it is, though in

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Speaker 1: that state. I think there is an exception because there's

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Speaker 1: no question. I think anyone looking at this case accepts

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Speaker 1: the fact that she intended to shoot and kill this individual.

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Speaker 1: The issue for the jury, at least in my mind,

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Speaker 1: is whether or not she believes it was her apartment

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Speaker 1: or not, and whether or not she acted reasonably throughout

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Speaker 1: this entire period of time. And I think all the

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Speaker 1: factors we talk about about her sex, thing, about her

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Speaker 1: carrying a loaded weapon, about her not paying attention, about

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Speaker 1: the red you know, the front red floormat, all those

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Speaker 1: things that are going to be something the jury takes

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Speaker 1: into consideration and they're deciding whether is this a murder,

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Speaker 1: is this a man thought, or is this reckless? But

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Speaker 1: I think mistake of fact is going to be a

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Speaker 1: huge factor in determining kind of what the end result is.

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Speaker 1: I think also it will depend on whether the mistake

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Speaker 1: was reasonable. And in my mind, I mean, James shell Nutt,

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Speaker 1: you've been a SWAT officer and major case detective in

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Speaker 1: the business for twenty seven years, plus law school at Carmerland,

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Speaker 1: plus a municipal judge. The reality is, you know the

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Speaker 1: training that cops have to go through. I mean, to

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Speaker 1: be an assistant DA in Inner City Atlanta, I had

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Speaker 1: to train about every six months at the firing range.

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Speaker 1: And I hate guns. I'm a gun violence victim. I

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Speaker 1: don't like guns. I don't like holding them. Long story short,

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Speaker 1: She's got training in ballistics at the firing range. She's

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Speaker 1: trained to handle a weapon and then pulling it on

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Speaker 1: an unarmed demand. How could she miss that red doormat?

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Speaker 1: Nobody else had one. She didn't have one, so how

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Speaker 1: could she step over that? I mean, she's supposed to

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Speaker 1: be trained observer for Pete's sake. Well, I think she

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Speaker 1: missed it because she was too worried about having a

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Speaker 1: hook up after work. That's all. I think she missed it.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Do you hear them? Do

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Speaker 1: you hear them? No? No? I I t h Are

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Speaker 1: you here or here? Okay, go ahead, I'm talking to you. No,

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Speaker 1: it's me. It's I'm all duty. I'm all duty. I

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Speaker 1: thought they were in my apartment. I thought this was

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Speaker 1: my sport. You're hearing more of that nine one one

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Speaker 1: call that's been played in court. You can watch it

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Speaker 1: yourself live Hey, Crime online dot com. I've been watching

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Speaker 1: it throughout the day with me an all star panel.

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Speaker 1: I want to go to doctor Bethany Marshall. You know

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Speaker 1: the jury did not like it. As Julie Rendelman pointed out,

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Speaker 1: it was just Ross Harris who left his child, baby Cooper,

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Speaker 1: in the car while he was sexting about six to

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Speaker 1: eight women, some of them miners, by the way, and

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Speaker 1: left his baby in the car. Now we've got another death.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of it? I just don't understand it.

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Speaker 1: Get in the door, she had to step over that

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Speaker 1: red doormat. Well, the issue of the sexting is so

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Speaker 1: important to me because it tells me that she is

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Speaker 1: fusing and confusing her job, carrying a gun, being in

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Speaker 1: an intense emotional situation, her sexuality, her femininity, and you

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Speaker 1: put all that together, and this is a narcissisting individual

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Speaker 1: who's not taking her job very seriously. It's all about

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Speaker 1: her and getting late pardon my French. It's about her

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Speaker 1: sexual excitement throughout the day. And wasn't she also looking

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Speaker 1: at Pinterest reading a Pinterest article. So it's her apartment,

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Speaker 1: it's her sexuality, and you put that behavioral evidence together,

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Speaker 1: and what I want if this isn't the sort of

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Speaker 1: individual where if she has a fight or a spat

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Speaker 1: or a beef with a neighbor, if she's so preoccupied

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Speaker 1: with her own rights and getting her own way, that

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Speaker 1: that same unboundaried quality leads her to go to his

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Speaker 1: apartment to confront him because hadn't she written a complaint

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Speaker 1: about him a week earlier, saying that he had been

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Speaker 1: too noisy, and here she'd only been at the apartment

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Speaker 1: for a month. Nancy, I'm going to tell you the

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Speaker 1: biggest fights that I see. My husband's a judge and

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Speaker 1: he sees spats and courts all over all the time

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Speaker 1: between neighbors. Neighbors become extraordinarily enraged at each other over

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Speaker 1: those most minor of things. And it could be that

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Speaker 1: she was so upset at the noise that she made

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Speaker 1: a bee line for his apartment to punish him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what. Following up on that, Doctor Bethany, familiarity

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Speaker 1: breeds contempt, and neighbors are very contemptious against each other.

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Speaker 1: Dave mac Crime online dot Com in reporter, can you

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Speaker 1: tell me about a previous noise complaints? Well, actually, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: according to the Jean family attorney your buddy Benjamin Crump

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Speaker 1: and Merrick in Dallas, they actually said there were some

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Speaker 1: complaints about noise coming from Botham's apartment, but they never

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Speaker 1: specifically claimed that it was actually Amber Geiger. She lived

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Speaker 1: directly below him, but she'd only been there for a

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Speaker 1: couple of months. Again, there were complaints made but according

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Speaker 1: to the family attorney, it wasn't Geiger that made those complaints. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's something we're gonna have to get to the bottom of.

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Speaker 1: And if Bethany is right, that is significant, a significant

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Speaker 1: in fact, guys, I'm looking right now at a photo

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Speaker 1: that we have on crime Online of the prosecutor, Jason Hermus,

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Speaker 1: holding up Botham Jean's red doormat. And you may wonder

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Speaker 1: why I keep talking about that, James Shellnutt twenty seven

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Speaker 1: years on Atlanta Metro Major Case Division. Why is that

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Speaker 1: so significant? What significant? Because it was a bright line

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Speaker 1: wife for her to no, this should have been a

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Speaker 1: final warning flag you're not in the right place. Something

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Speaker 1: is different. Yeah, I mean a red doormat. I think

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Speaker 1: I would have noticed that. Guys. Let's take a listen

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Speaker 1: to what is going on in the courtroom. Whatever his arm,

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Speaker 1: her mind, after that conversation has consumed her attention entirely,

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Speaker 1: and she's missing obvious things. She then goes down the

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Speaker 1: rest of the hallway, because then she turns left and

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Speaker 1: she's walking up on Bo's apartment fourteen seventy. And this

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Speaker 1: is the one I really want you all to hear.

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Speaker 1: Amber Geiger has no floor mat in front of her door.

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Speaker 1: Amber Geiger has nothing but the concrete floor. Gray concrete

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Speaker 1: concrete floor that looks like the rest of the floor.

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Speaker 1: Both of Jean wanted his apartment to be very noticeable,

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Speaker 1: and he took steps to make sure that happened in

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Speaker 1: front of botha's apartments. Is this extremely obvious, bright red

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Speaker 1: floormat right in front of his door? I want to reiterate,

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Speaker 1: Amber driver had no floormat. She walked right up and

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Speaker 1: stepped on top of this as she entered and placed

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Speaker 1: her key fob into the dead boat lock of both

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Speaker 1: both of gen com I mean Jess goot Morgan, forensics

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Speaker 1: expert author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Jesscott

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Speaker 1: not only that, what about evidence the door the front

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Speaker 1: door was a jar. Didn't the doors have magnetic locks? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: They did, And you know, in my lifetime, I've never

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Speaker 1: lived in any place that fancy. But apparently you can

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Speaker 1: wave a key fob over the thing and it disengages.

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Speaker 1: And from what reports are coming in, you know, his

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Speaker 1: the facing on the thing was not installed correctly, so

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Speaker 1: his or would be slightly a jar many times, as

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Speaker 1: if it wouldn't click into place. And so when she

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Speaker 1: bumped this thing with her with her fob, that it

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Speaker 1: kind of nudged the door open well automatically. As a

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Speaker 1: police officer, I can only imagine her senses are heightened automatically,

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Speaker 1: you know, because her perception, not the reality, but her

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Speaker 1: perception was at that time, was that this is her

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Speaker 1: door she's walking in. She becomes tunnel focused, as judge

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Speaker 1: just mentioned just a moment ago, and she takes her

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Speaker 1: weapon out, and so you've got you've got this kind

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Speaker 1: of collision that's that's on course. And you know, let

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Speaker 1: me let me tell you one other thing. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we've talked about how maybe there was a disturbance

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Speaker 1: in the past, and uh, you know, she goes down

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Speaker 1: to confront this guy. I gotta tell you, I take

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Speaker 1: I take exception to this idea that this case is

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Speaker 1: being painted as if she went down or went to

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Speaker 1: this gentleman's apartment and essentially executed him. That's that's not

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Speaker 1: what's happening here. One thing that has not been brought

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Speaker 1: out is that she is on a high speed team

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Speaker 1: with Dallas Police Department, where she's going out, she's interdicting

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Speaker 1: street crimes on a regular basis, she's already been working

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Speaker 1: Nancy for thirteen hours. I spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: on the street over the course of my career with

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Speaker 1: a Corner in New Orleans, with the Emmy in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: as an investigator. I've worked these shifts. And let me

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Speaker 1: tell you something. You get off work and you come

425
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: off of a thirteen hour watch, and your brain is

426
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: mush at that time. The only thing you can think

427
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: about is trying to get to bed. And hey, she's

428
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: trying to get to bed with her lover. Yeah, God

429
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: bless her. Yeah, well we because I'm a horny can

430
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: we touch? Does not suggest to me that she is

431
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: a human being. She's got needs just like everybody else does.

432
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: She's not on duty at this point in time. Maybe

433
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: she is texted him, so what. I don't care if

434
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: she's texting him. She's got to live her life. She

435
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: is a human being, she has needs just like everybody else.

436
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: It's a comedy of errors at this point in time,

437
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: and it's horrible that it wound up this way. But

438
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: you know, you can't you can't extract the fact that

439
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: she has been working. She's distracted. Hey, maybe life is

440
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: so bad on the street she needs to be comforted,

441
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: and by God, there's a lot of cops out there

442
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: that need comforting. She's looking to be in the arms

443
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: of her lover at that point in time. You three

444
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: Joe Scott because that was a hell of a sermon.

445
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: But I got news for you. You can go ahead

446
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: and cut his mic right now in case he chums

447
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: back up. I'm tired is not a defense. Botham Jean

448
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: was sitting on his sofa eating ice cream when he

449
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: was shot dead. That's what he was doing before she

450
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: came into his apartment. I'm tired. It's not a defense. FYI.

451
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: A lot of us work long hours. Yesterday I logged

452
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: fifteen hours straight and that it's not an excuse for

453
00:27:54,760 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: murder crime stories with Nancy Grace. The Jean family left

454
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: the courtroom arm in arm after facing both of Jehan's

455
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: killer for the first time. This is Botham Samjan. In

456
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: opening arguments, prosecutors said the twenty six year old was

457
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: watching TV eating vanilla ice cream in his apartment when

458
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: former Dallas officer Amber Geiger walked in and shot him

459
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: in the chest. No opportunity for him, Baba rapper, double tap,

460
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: prosecutors maintained Geiger was so consumed with a phone conversation

461
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: she just had with Martin Rivera, her police partner turned

462
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: love interest, that she didn't realize she entered the wrong apartment,

463
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: despite Jean having a red doormat. On the stand, Rivera

464
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: testified the two exchanged explicit messages the day of the

465
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: shooting while Geiger worked a thirteen and a half hour shifting,

466
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: Gila having any kind of undue stressing the line no.

467
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: The defense maintains Geiger was fatigued because she worked forty

468
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: hours in four days. What you will see and hear

469
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: and experience is the perfect store of innocent circumstances. Also

470
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: on the stand, John's sister, Elissa Findley, who told jurors

471
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: she hasn't accepted her brother was gone and still calls

472
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: his phone hoping he answers A miss him every single day.

473
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: Being in Dallas is hard that he's not here. You

474
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: are hearing k X AS anchor Meredith land and testimony

475
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: from the courtroom, which you can watch live at Crime

476
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: online dot Com. As much as I was giving him

477
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: a hard time, I do agree with Joseph Scott Morgan

478
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: on one issue. I do not believe that Amber Geiger

479
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: went to this apartment with the intent of executing someone.

480
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: I don't think that's what happened if you look at

481
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: the evidence in the light most favorable to the defendant.

482
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,239
Speaker 1: To me, Doctor Bethany Marshall, she was sexting, she had

483
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: had a long night. She went to this apartment, she

484
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: opened the door and opened fire. The fact that she

485
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: thought was she was in her apartment is in my mind,

486
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: not going to be a defense. But I do agree

487
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: with Joe Scott Morgan that this was not a planned execution,

488
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: that she was going to use the defense that she

489
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: got the wrong apartment. I don't think it was planned

490
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: out that way, but premeditation can be formed in the

491
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: twinkling of an eye from the time it takes you

492
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: to raise the gun and pull the trigger. So still

493
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: a long shift, I'm tired is not a defense, but

494
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a long thought out plan.

495
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, Well, I'm glad you went to me on

496
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: this because I've devoted a lot of thought to this

497
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: case and it's analogous to me with situations I have

498
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: in my private cline he practice in Beverly Hills. I

499
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: treat a lot of pro athletes and what happens, especially

500
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: with the football players. They go out on the field,

501
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: they get a lot of injuries. They start to substance abuse.

502
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: They have concussive injuries, like traumatic brain injuries. That makes

503
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: them impulsive, even more aggressive. They think that they're God

504
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: because they get their way. Everywhere they go out, they

505
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: sort of throw their weight around. They come home, they

506
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: get in a minor altercation with the wife, and all

507
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: of a sudden they beat the wife up. And it's

508
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: not as simple, ever that they went home wanting to

509
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: abuse the wife. It's a confluence of factors, and I

510
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: wish I knew more about the mindset of the policewoman.

511
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan spoke beautifully to it, But there are factors

512
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: for which we cannot assess. We do not know. Was

513
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: she impulsive? Was she self centered? Was she paranoid? Did

514
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: she have a trauma history? Was she always afraid of

515
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: losing her life? Did she use sexuality to keep herself

516
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: in a state of heightened excitement in order to avoid

517
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: frightening feelings that she had at work? So certainly, no,

518
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: it's not as simple as she went to his apartment

519
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: to execute him. In a sense, it was a perfect storm.

520
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: We just don't know what elements at this point comprised

521
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: the storm. Now, Joseph Scott Morgan has pointed out accurately

522
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: that she had a very long shift and was tired.

523
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: He also says she just wanted to go home and

524
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: got a sleep. But listen to this. I think it's

525
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: very important for you folks to know that after a

526
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: thirteen and a half hour shift, Amber Diver did not

527
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: have plans just to go home and crash or take

528
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: it easy. There were plans of that, particularly evement plans

529
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: that were hatched about five fifty five between her and marketing.

530
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: There he writes to her, when can I come over?

531
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: She replies, you can come over. After this, referring to

532
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: an image that had come across earlier, she indicates him

533
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: super horny today too. He replies to me too. Then

534
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of other conversations going on throughout

535
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: the night. He was checking in with her every hour

536
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,719
Speaker 1: and a half, and then she lets him know at

537
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: twenty nine oh six she said them a text letting

538
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: him know that she's barely walking out of the police station,

539
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: followed by this indication of her want to touch all

540
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: right by implication. Clearly, we believe that there was some event,

541
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: some date, whatever you want to call it, planned for

542
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: after this call was over. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, go

543
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: on preach to me. No, it just seems mighty thin.

544
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: What she's supposed to go home and be like RoboCop

545
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: and just like plug into her battery, you know, and

546
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: so she can be recharged for the use of the

547
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: city the next day. Is that what happens She's no

548
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: longer a human being that you know, This is mighty thin.

549
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: This is mighty thin for the prosecution. I gotta tell you,

550
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you know what the reality is. Your theory

551
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: that you want to go home and crash is incorrect.

552
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: So you know what, you need to accept that and

553
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: quit beating the dead horse, and you can quit projecting

554
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: about how tired you were when you were a cop,

555
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: because there are several people on the panel right now

556
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: that have been in law enforcement, me for one and

557
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: Shelton up for two. And we worked really long hours,

558
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: going to bed at twelve, getting up at three to

559
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: go roused up witnesses. We've been there and we didn't

560
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: shoot anybody dead. And as a matter of fact, she

561
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: missed several during her sexting and her prep for a

562
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: night of sex with her partner. She missed many many

563
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: signs this was not her apartment, such as the fourth

564
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: floor of the garage where she parked after her shift

565
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: was open air, unlike her parking area which was on

566
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: the third floor. She didn't notice a skylight, a neighbor's

567
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: decorative planter, Jean's red doormat, the hallways were different. Once

568
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: she opened the door to her neighbor's apartment, she didn't

569
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: notice other differences like a missing table, a counter covered

570
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: in clutter, a distinct aroma that would not have been

571
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: in her apartment. Just so many issues. So being on

572
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: autopilot James Shellnutt, twenty seven years on a force. Being

573
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: on autopilot it is not an excuse. That's just like

574
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: and look, I'm on the cop side in almost every situation.

575
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: But when a copet on the street says, oh, I

576
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: shot him Jack because I thought he had a gun

577
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: and he doesn't have a gun. That's not gonna fly.

578
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: That is not going to work, and it shouldn't. So

579
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: her saying I thought this is my apartment. I don't

580
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: care how long she had been working that's not a defense, James, No,

581
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: I agree. As a police officer, you work long shifts

582
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: all the time. It's not uncommon work a double shift,

583
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: which is actually longer than what she had been working

584
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: on double shi sixteen hours. This is something that happens

585
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: all the time. You know, if I'm a detective taken

586
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,439
Speaker 1: a look at this. The one factor that I can't

587
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: get over after I look at all the evidence in

588
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: this case is that she's standing on another man's red

589
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: doormat while she's sexted four hook up instead of paying

590
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: attention to where she's at. That's a problem. Well, we'll

591
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: see if a jury agrees. The trial happening right now,

592
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: and when I hear Botham Jane's mom break down crying,

593
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: I can hardly stand it because you all know by

594
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: now this word happened to my twins. Oh hell would

595
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: have no fury like mommy. Nancy Grace crime Story signing off,

596
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,