1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,559 Speaker 1: This episode of News World pretty odd years ago I left. 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: I believe since they and I have seen demonstrated in 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: our own land and in far corners of the earth, 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: on battlefields and around council tables, in schoolhouse, in factory 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: and farming community, the indomitable spirit of Americans from this roster. 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: Looking back on the American record through these years, I 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: gained personal inspiration and renewed devotion to America. There is 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: nothing before us that can affright or defeat of people who, 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: in one man's lifetime have accomplished so much. Ladies and gentlemen, 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: I believe we can have peace with honor, reasonable security, 11 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: with national solids. I believe in the future of the 12 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: United States of American than President. Thank President. President. Every 13 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: how is the time for all good Americans to come 14 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: to the aid of their country. This is new due 15 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: to the virus. I'm recording from home, so you may 16 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: notice a difference in audio quality. This year we marked 17 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: the seventy fifth anniversary of victory in Europe and the 18 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: seventy fifth commemoration of the end of World War Two. Eisenhower, 19 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: or Eke as he was known, was a West Point graduate, 20 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: a five star general in the Army, served as Supreme 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: Commander the Allied Expeditionary Forces in Europe in World War Two, 22 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: and became the thirty fourth President of the United States. 23 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 1: He is an extraordinary person and one well worth studying 24 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: because so much of what he did and what he 25 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: understood can be applied to our own lives, in our 26 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,559 Speaker 1: own situation. This episode is the last in our three 27 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: part The Immortals White David Eisenhower series, and I'm really 28 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: pleased to welcome my guest, Susan Eisenhower, Eisenhower's granddaughter and 29 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: author of How Ike Led The Principles Behind Eisenhower's Biggest Decisions. 30 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: In Part three of The Immortals Dwight David Eisenhower, we 31 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: take you through Eisenhower's presidential campaign and his presidency and 32 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: look at how he made decisions. We're very fortunate at 33 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,679 Speaker 1: a time when the Eisenhower Memorial is being dedicated on 34 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: the Mall, to have as a special guest Susan Eisenhower, 35 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: his granddaughter, who recently wrote a book, How Ike Led 36 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: the Principles Behind Eisenhower's Biggest Decisions, looking at her grandfather's 37 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: leadership style and what we can learn from him that 38 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: we can imply in our lives. Susan, thank you so 39 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: much to take the time to be with us. Well, 40 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: mister speaker, thank you for this wonderful opportunity. And I'm 41 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: very curious. I'm such a huge admirer of your grandfather. 42 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: What was life like growing up with Dwight Eisenhower as 43 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: both a grandfather and president? Looking back, of course, there's 44 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: nothing normal about growing up in an environment like that. 45 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: He was, in retrospect, a phenomenally disciplined person. He did 46 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: not bring his worries home in the evening, and I 47 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: really admire that. It's a challenging thing to do, especially 48 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: in a turbulent time as the late forties and fifties were. 49 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: You know, so much had changed after the war. The 50 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: world's economies were in collapse, and societies were wrecked by 51 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: a war that took sixty five million lives. And he 52 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: played major roles in the post war period as well 53 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: as his wartime leadership. But despite all of these things 54 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: that were royaling around him, he managed to come home 55 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: and be a very regular kind of grandfather, which I 56 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: now look back in retrospect and say, wow, that's a 57 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: high level of discipline. They able to turn it on 58 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: and turn it off, Like though, what led you to 59 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: decide to write how I led the principle behind Eisner's 60 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: biggest decision, And it's a great title. He was one 61 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: of the most principled managers I've ever seen that he 62 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: really thought through over a very long period of time, 63 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: would have worked and what didn't work, And I'm curious 64 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: would have led you to decide that he wanted to 65 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: write that. Well, First of all, a number of things 66 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: were happening, the seventy sith anniversary of the day in 67 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: May and then the end of the entire war, which 68 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: we've just marked. That was an emphasis. The unveiling of 69 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: the Eisenhower memorial was another one. But I guess, mister speaker, 70 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I think Dwight Eisenhower 71 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: still has something to say to us. And I wanted 72 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: to pull together his wartime presidential leadership because only very 73 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: very large books tend to cover both parts of this career. 74 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: And I guess the bottom line as I wanted people 75 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: to take away the fact that Eisenhower the General and 76 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: Eisenhower the President were one and the same person. It's 77 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: kind of a remarkable career. There are very few people 78 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: in our entire history who have had the range he had, 79 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: coming from working at a dairy, then going to West Point, 80 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: rising to five star general, then being drafted, and becoming 81 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: president for two terms. When you look at it that 82 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: for a long period he tried to avoid politics. Is 83 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: he yours sense that those just being coy or that 84 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: he really did not see himself in the political arena. 85 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: I think that's a wonderful question, because there's a lot 86 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: of speculation in the scholarly community, and coi is a 87 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: great word. I really don't think he was being KOI. 88 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: I really think he spent a lot of agonizing time 89 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: trying to decide unquote where his duty lay. And that 90 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: may sound very strange to civilians, but when he was 91 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: at West Point, he took a transformational oath to the 92 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: Constitution of the United States, and as a five star 93 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: army general, they never retire, they are always on call 94 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: to the United States Military, into the president United States. 95 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: To go into political life and to assume the candidacy 96 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: for president would be to take himself out of a 97 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: set of duties. He still retained. And that's why I 98 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: think coyness is not what this was. About now. It's 99 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: interesting both parties wanted him to be their candidate, but 100 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: I think that when he finally became a candidate, he 101 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: did so because he wanted to make sure that the 102 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: Republican Party assumed an internationalist view of American leadership instead 103 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: of some of the forces that wanted to draw us 104 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: back into isolationism. It's amazing how popular he was in 105 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: that ability to be drafted in New Hampshire and emerge 106 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: with such formiddable support. One has always been curious about 107 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: the whole notion of eyelike. Do you know where the 108 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: slogan came from? It's a great campaign slogan, isn't it. 109 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: It was somebody's idea, I think, in the advertising world, 110 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: and it's a good thing because it's hard to imagine 111 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: somebody with a name as long as Eisenhower finding a 112 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: very effective way to campaign. Because something short and sweet 113 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: was required. He already had a nickname Mike, so it 114 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: just seemed like a good catchy thing to advance, and 115 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: whoever came up with it did him a great service. 116 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: Did I go all the way back to his childhood? 117 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: When did he started being called Ike? Well, that's a 118 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: great question. He had an older brother named Edgar, who 119 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: had great star power too. But Edgar was originally known 120 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: as Big Ike. I think probably when he got to 121 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: West Point he started using Ike. It's interesting my great grandmother, 122 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: I'd stover Eisenhower, simply did not like the nickname. So 123 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: Mamie once throwed her and said, Ike and I've gone 124 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: on a road trip. And Ike's mother writes Mamie back 125 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: and says, now, who is this Ike you're traveling with? 126 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: Wo am I I have to confess I'm old enough 127 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: that my first convention in terms of watching it on 128 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: TV was Eisenhower in fifty six, and I actually was 129 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: in four roy My dad was an army officer, and 130 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: so I was actually not far from Mike's home during 131 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: his run in fifty six. So I've always had an 132 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 1: affection which Bob Dolan I have talked about over the 133 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: years that we who were both so shaped by him. 134 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: One of the bold decisions he makes is to announce 135 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: that he will go to Korea. Did you think that 136 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: came from him or was that staff driven? It was 137 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: a remarkable moment when he said that. Well, it was 138 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: a remarkable moment. I remember knowing really quite well. One 139 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: of Adelais Stevenson's speech writers here in Washington, and he 140 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: said to me once, how did that idea emerge? Because 141 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: the minute he said I will go to Korea, this 142 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: chap said, we knew in the Stevenson camp that we 143 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: were done. I really wanted to go there and see 144 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: it for himself, which is what he did. He made 145 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: a secret visit between his election and the inauguration because 146 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: he needed to really get thinking about what to do 147 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: in Korea. It was a very unpopular war and I 148 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: think what sort of sealed it for him was taking 149 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: a helicopter ride over the front, which was probably a 150 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: fairly risky thing to do if you think about it, 151 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: but he realized between the terrain and the position of 152 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: various forces, he concluded it wasn't a winnable war without 153 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: escalating things to really a very dangerous level comparable to 154 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: World War Three. So then he comes back and settles 155 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: down to try and broke her an arm as I remember, 156 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: he actually does imply through the Indians to the Chinese 157 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: that they don't find a way to get to an armistice, 158 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: that he would use tactical nuclear weapons. He was not 159 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: going to let them to sit there and bleet us 160 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: for five or ten years. I suspect that his military 161 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: prestige was such that the Chinese had to take him seriously. 162 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: Do you know, I think that's an excellent point. We 163 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: sort of forget the impact of his credibility left from 164 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 1: the victory in Europe. He was serious about the choice 165 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: and that it wasn't just a bluff. Now, whether it 166 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: was a bluff or not, I don't know. We'll never know, 167 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: but I think it was definitely that credibility that turned 168 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: the tide in those negotiations. My guess is that it 169 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: was not a bluff, just because I remember, very late 170 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: in his life him being interviewed about why we weren't 171 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: winning in Vietnam, and he said, because we're not taking 172 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: it seriously. He said, if we have to be there, 173 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: we have to be there to win, and if we're 174 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: going to be there to win, we have to take 175 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: steps that the current team is not prepared to take. 176 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: So you either get out or you really get in. 177 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: I'm curious it must have been a rare moment, because 178 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: when your grandfather goes to Korea, your father is serving there. 179 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: What is it like to be the son of a 180 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: five star general? And President of the United States serving 181 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: in the army, and inevitably, of course, I'm assuming being 182 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: recognized as Ike's son. Well, I think it was an 183 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: easy position to be in, and my father, as a 184 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: matter of fact, was deprived of a normal commencement from 185 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: West Point. He graduated coincidentally on D Day. He did 186 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: live in his father's shadow. But I'm so glad you 187 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: mentioned this particular conundrum because the new commander in chief, 188 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: right Eisenhower said to my father John, while I'm commander 189 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: in chief now, you should either come home or if 190 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: you choose to stay with your unit, you have to 191 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: commit to me that you will never be taken prisoner. 192 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: And it was known between the two of them, made 193 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: it very clear that he needed to keep a handgun 194 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: with him. And if you decide who was going to 195 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: go back, under certain circumstances, the President United States would 196 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: expect him to take his own life. So I don't 197 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: know how long it took my father and make that decision. 198 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: I suspect no time at all, and he went back 199 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: with his unit. That's a pretty sobering story. Actually, Well, 200 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I've heard of tough love, but this 201 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: is really but you've outlined something that is Some of 202 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: the basis of Ike's own character is that he was 203 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: a clear thinker, and he did not like disorganize thinking. So, 204 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: in other words, he made a very clear choice to 205 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: my father, just as he made a very clear choice 206 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: to the Chinese. My friends, Before I begin the expression 207 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: of those thoughts that I deem appropriate to this moment, 208 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: would you permit me the privilege of uttering a little 209 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: private prayer of my own? And I asked, if you 210 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: bow your heads, Almighty God, as we stand here at 211 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: this moment, my associates in the my future associates, and 212 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: the executive branch of government join me and beseeching that 213 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: thou wilt make full and complete our dedication to the 214 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: service of the people in this throng and their fellow 215 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: citizens everywhere. Give us, we pray, the power to discern 216 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 1: clearly right from wrong, and allow all our words and 217 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: actions to be governed thereby and by the laws of 218 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 1: this land. Especially, we pray that our concerns shall be 219 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: for all the people, regardless of station, race, or calling. 220 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: May cooperation be permitted and be the mutual aim of 221 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: those who, under the concepts of our constitution hold to 222 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: differing political faith, so that all may work for the 223 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: good of our beloved country and Thy glory army. Your grandfather. 224 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: His inaugural starts with a prayer. I think he has 225 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: a significant role in creating the National Prayer Breakfast, and 226 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: I think he approved of heading under God to the 227 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: pledge of Allegiance. I don't know that he was a 228 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: religious person in the way some people might think, but 229 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: it did seem to me that he had a deep 230 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: sense of God and a reverence for the Supreme Being. 231 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: I think that's right, and you're right on all three 232 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: of those. He played a big role in the prayer 233 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: breakfast and started with a prayer, and also added in 234 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: God we trust. I think he was really driven by 235 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: a higher cause, and that again may sound odd to 236 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: civilian years, but he understood his place in the larger 237 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: scheme of things. He committed himself to serving our country 238 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: and to serving a higher cause. I think he gets 239 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: this from his family. He came from a very religious family. 240 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: Though you're completely correct, he did not choose religious denomination 241 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: until after he was elected in nineteen fifty two. He 242 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: did not think that it was useful to be talking 243 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: about his religion all the time. But I think those 244 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: things that he brought to our national life by adding 245 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: the word God in there would be seen as a 246 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: way to unite the country around a higher mission. I 247 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: always thought it was telling that his memoir of the 248 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: war was Crusade in Europe, and I think he saw 249 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: it as a crusade, and he saw the Nazis as 250 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: sufficiently evil that crusade was the right word. Well, that's right. 251 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: I think the word crusade was used more commonly in 252 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: those days. But I think liberating that concentration camp or Driffe, 253 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: which was a subcamp of Buchnvaud, within the last weeks 254 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: of the war, had a profound effect on his feeling. 255 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he says in his memoirs 256 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: that he simply didn't have words. The English language didn't 257 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: have words they were adequate to describe what he felt 258 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: when he saw He used the word beastiality, the savagery 259 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: that was commonplace among these camps that were being liberated 260 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: as the war came to an end. I think it's 261 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: a very dramatic story that tells us a lot about's 262 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: attitude to the Nazis. He did believe in the idea 263 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: of bringing them to justice. And then in my research 264 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: I discovered very interestingly that he had a documentary filmmate 265 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: of the Holocaust, which he insisted to be chronicled, and 266 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: he issued orders to that effect, and he made the 267 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: German population watch this film. He was going to hold 268 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: people accountable. While he had enormous respect for George Marshall 269 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 1: in the fifty two campaign, he doesn't really defend him. 270 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: Did you ever look into that. It's an odd moment. 271 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: It's one of the two places where you see candidateizing 272 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: are not stepping up to the plate, but deliberately sidestepping 273 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: something that knew was wrong. I'm glad you asked that 274 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: question because people still write about it and are still 275 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. First of all, Eisenhower was 276 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: a human being, so he did make mistakes, but this 277 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: was one he not only grasped the minute it happened, 278 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: but he vowed it would happen again. Eisenhower had to 279 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: make a transition from being a military commander to entering 280 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: retail politics, and this was one of the mistakes he 281 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: made during the campaign that he regretted most deeply. And I, 282 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: even as a kid, heard about it long ago and 283 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: that is, he had previous two going to Wisconsin, and 284 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: against his wishes in the presence of Senator Joseph McCarthy, 285 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: he had spoken on at least five occasions about George 286 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: Marshall's patriotism, about indispensable role in World War Two, and 287 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: his gratitude to Marshal and all of that. But when 288 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: he got to Wisconsin, his political advisor felt quite strongly 289 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: that one more recitation of General Marshall would be unnecessary 290 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: and a mistake. And then what happened was that the 291 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: speech draft that had this incruous paragraph about General Marshall 292 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: was prematurely without Eisenhower's authority, released to the press. And 293 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: I can tell you that when he got sandbagged on 294 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: that he was humiliated and infuriated, and you didn't want 295 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: to be on the receiving end of emotions like that 296 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: when he felt them so strongly. It was a mistake. 297 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: But here's the mistakes. A mistake was it never occurred 298 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: to him that he'd be sandbagged by his own campaign staff. 299 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: I use the word humiliated in the book, and some 300 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: people think that's not strong enough. But in eisenhower Land, 301 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: where I come from, saying that Dwight Eisenhower was humiliated 302 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: by his own mistake is pretty strong stuff. He determined 303 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: he would never make a mistake like that again. And 304 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: I can tell it's had an effect because my father 305 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: made it clear at the Eisenhower Library that they were 306 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: not to release speech drafts. I don't know if that's 307 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: ever changed. A speech isn't a speech until Dwight eisenhowerd 308 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: gives it and had that filtered down to the campaign staff. 309 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: No one would have ever known that there had been 310 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: this paragraph that was removed. So you can see the problem. 311 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: But he ran a very tight ship with his speechwriting 312 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: staff after that incident, and I'm happy to say that 313 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: it did not affect his relationship with George Marshall. George 314 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: Marshall came to the White House any number of times 315 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: during Eisenhower's presidency, and I think it's a real measure 316 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: of George Marshall, but also the measure of Eisenhower that 317 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: he could make a mistake and learn from it and 318 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: solve those wounds. They were an amazing team during the war, 319 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: absolutely amazing team, and George is just a phenomenal figure 320 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: in our history. He did one thing, mister Speaker, that 321 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: I think was so incredibly helpful for the war effort 322 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: is that he found a team of people he could 323 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: rely on and trust and he didn't micromanage. That was 324 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: really very helpful. And it was a smart thing too, 325 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: which means that if something had gone terribly wrong, he 326 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: could have replaced his supreme allied commander. But we never 327 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: wanted to see an architect of World War Two be 328 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: put in a position where he couldn't protect his own authority. 329 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: As interesting he was Marshall, and this was I think, 330 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: and I'm a very understudied part of our success. Marshall 331 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: both had a little book of people that he had 332 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: picked up all through the thirties that he wanted to 333 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: make sure he promoted if he was able to position 334 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: to do so. But in addition, Marshall retired an entire 335 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: generation of senior officers, and people don't realize that the 336 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: number of people who were well meaning but over the 337 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: hill or didn't quite get it couldn't move at the 338 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: piece of modern warfare. And these are personal friends of his, 339 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: and he's known for twenty and thirty years, and so 340 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: he's creating the space for a much younger guy like 341 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: Eisenhower to rise because he is wiping out the generation 342 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: of Bob Eisenhower. And it's one of the great management 343 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: achievements because it's so hard to do in a big bureaucracy. 344 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: I think that is such a profound point, and few 345 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: people really realize how tough that might have been. I 346 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: think Marshall was also brilliant in convening what was called 347 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: the Louisiana Maneuvers before the war, and he got his 348 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: military forces out there. It was the largest military war 349 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: game in the history of our country, and they took 350 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: over the state of Louisiana, literally doing an amphibious landings 351 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: on the coast there. And it went on for some time, 352 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: and Eisenhower was the chief of staff to the winning 353 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: side of that set of maneuvers, and that was one 354 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: of the things that cemented him in Marshall's mind. But really, 355 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: I so agree with you. I think that George Marshall 356 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: is really an extraordinary man, and I certainly wish we 357 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: had more about him in our history books. I do 358 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: have to ask you about one thing that is a 359 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: sign of I think his cleverness that you may know 360 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: much more about this than I've ever been able to find. 361 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: One he writes Crusade in Europe, which was a huge 362 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: bestseller because of course everybody who served in Europe wanted 363 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: a copy. The Congress actually passed a special provision that 364 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: the income was not taxable, and I'd read somewhere that 365 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: that was actually the money by which he bought the 366 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: farm at Gettysburg. Talk about planning. That that was a 367 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: very methodical way to do something that was very helpful 368 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: to him, because of course he'd been in the army 369 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: when people were paid virtually nothing. So he came out 370 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: of the war with very very little income. But I've 371 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: never known to what degree he had a hand in 372 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: it and to what had just happened. It's interesting you 373 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: should mention that you're absolutely correct about getting paid very 374 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: little in the army. I came out of World War 375 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: Two and declared that he would not accept any speaking honorariums, 376 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: that he would not join any corporate board, that he 377 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: would not do any consulting. So he literally kept the 378 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: lights on. You might say by his writings, probably not 379 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: dissimilar to Winston Churchill. In any case. He once said 380 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: when he retired from the army and he and my 381 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: grandmother got into their car to drive off. He said 382 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: to her, you do realize that we're driving away in 383 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: our only asset. They'd only ut to that point lived 384 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: in government housing, so they didn't even at that point 385 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: have a house. Did he ever to you what it 386 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: was like in the interim where he was president of Columbia, 387 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: because as so much I always thought that was the 388 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: most unusual period of his career. Well, it is an 389 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: unusual part of his career. I heard lots of references 390 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: to thirty Morningside Drive, which was their residence there, And 391 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: of course it's also at Columbia where he takes up 392 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: oil painting as a way to center his spirit and 393 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: to let his mind rest. But I think what's so 394 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: interesting about is that he came out of the most 395 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: hierarchical situation one could imagine into a totally horizontal management structure. 396 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: And I think he enjoyed his time very much, That's 397 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: always what I heard, But he also missed what he 398 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: thought he might get more of at Columbia, which was 399 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: interaction with the students. I think he survived to the 400 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: extent that he did there with a very integrated approach 401 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: to the indispensability of everybody's jobs. In my book, I 402 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: mentioned a wonderful story where President of Columbia University Eisenhower 403 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: calls to Low Library the maintenance staff at Columbia University. 404 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: They came in their overalls and there they were in 405 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: Low Library, and the President met all of them. He 406 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: looked him in the eye and he said, I want 407 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: you to know that I regard what you do is 408 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: not only indispensable, but part of a community here that 409 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: is interdependent. Now, that's the way he approached the situation 410 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: during the war. It's the way he talked to the GIS. 411 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: And so he made a lot of friends there actually. 412 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: And then mister speaker, if I might make one other 413 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: point about the Columbia period, and I think this is 414 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: critically important for understanding our national security at the time, 415 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: he did meet a group of very influential scientists and 416 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: he brought them into the White House to report directly 417 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: to him after Sputnik, and so he utilized the scientific 418 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: community that had been part of Columbia University. And that 419 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: was very, very beneficial because he was a great believer 420 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: in expertise. You'd have to if you were fighting a war, 421 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: I have to ask you just because I think it's 422 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: such a great example of Eisenhower. Are you familiar with 423 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: the story about his going down to Augusta to see 424 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: if they'll cut down the tree that he hates? Oh God, yeah, 425 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: well this famous tree. Yes, I think Ike had a 426 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: pretty an uneven golf game, shall we put it that way? 427 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: He had apparently a big slice and there was a tree. 428 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: I can't remember which hole it was on, but the 429 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: tree was in a way as far as Ike was concerned, 430 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: so I think here jokingly complained about it once, but 431 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: this became sort of a mantra at every board meeting 432 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: at Augusta. He'd always stand up and with a twinkle 433 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: in his eye and demand from the chairman of the 434 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: directors of Augusta that this tree had to be cut down. 435 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: I must say went an end of the story, because 436 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: the tree actually fell down during an ice storm several 437 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: years ago, and the Augusta community was heartbroken that this 438 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: famous tree was in pieces, and they made some souvenirs 439 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: out of the wood, and they have a conference table 440 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: made out of the Eisenhower tree. So there's some fun 441 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: in that story, there is. You know, I raised the 442 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: only because close that I were down a few years 443 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: ago and we saw the display that they've made out 444 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: of the tree and all the Apparently he actually went 445 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: down while he was in office and goes to the 446 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: board meeting and at the end of the meeting asked 447 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: the head of Augusta, would it be in order to 448 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: move that the tree would be cut down? The Head 449 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: of Augusta says, no, that is not in order. And 450 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: in terms of the rule of law and the idea 451 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: that you're not bigger than the system, I can't think 452 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: of very many personal stories that captured it better than 453 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: I going through that. That's a wonderful way to look 454 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: at it. You'll be amused it. After the presidentcy granddad 455 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: had to get a driver's license because actually a few 456 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: people realize this, but after Eisenhower left office, he had 457 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: no secret service detail because former presidents didn't have secret 458 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: service details at that point, so he had no official 459 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: driver and he had to get a driver's license. So 460 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: talk about rule of law. Frankly speaking, no members of 461 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: the family really wanted to ride in the car with 462 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: him because he had a heavy foot, and he got 463 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: stopped plenty of times on Confederate Avenue and was always 464 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: managing his speeding tickets. It's tough to go twenty five 465 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,479 Speaker 1: miles an hour on Confederate Avenue and get Hissburg too 466 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: much of an open road. There's a great story about 467 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: him to your point, how much the world has changed, 468 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,239 Speaker 1: because nowadays, of course they get Marine one, they get 469 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: Air Force one, and all sorts of things are done 470 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: to get the president as they leave office to wherever 471 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: they're going. But apparently after Kennedy was sworn in, I 472 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: got in like a three car convoy. They drive up 473 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: to the farm and they're sitting there and nothing's happening. Now, 474 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he breaks into a big laugh, 475 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: gets out, walks up, opens the gate and waves the 476 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: group through because of course the person who had been 477 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: at the gate as of noon that day was no 478 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: longer there, and the world had changed, which is under 479 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: our system what it is supposed to do. Exactly what happened. 480 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: And the thing is it was my father drove him 481 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: up to Getsburg because I didn't yet have his driver's license. Okay, Well, 482 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: in terms of the rule of law, he has a 483 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: very powerful but in some ways very self limited approach 484 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: to civil rights, and in many ways he's decisive in 485 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: enforcing the rule of law. On segregation of southers, but 486 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: he does so with a kind of caution. What was 487 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: your sense of his whole approach to dealing with civil 488 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: rights and the kind of challenges were still today facing. 489 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: I think it's an excellent question, and I really appreciate 490 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: you asking it, because I think this is one of 491 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: the areas it is most misunderstood about what was in 492 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: his mind and if I may add, in his heart. 493 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: If you read his early speeches, including during the campaign, 494 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: but most notably in I think it's his first State 495 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: of the Union address, he makes it very clear what 496 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: his strategy is for civil rights. During the war. He 497 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: had desegregated some of the units, especially at the end 498 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: of the war, and he had supported the desegregation of 499 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: the military. But he had actually a plan, and it's 500 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: back to that word you used earlier about planning. He 501 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: really believed that if you were dealing with a long 502 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: term issue as civil rights, is that you have to 503 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: do what you can do in the time you are 504 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: allotted in this case is before or eight years, and 505 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: you would be and this is typical military thinking, you 506 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: would be far and away most successful if you took 507 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: care of the things you could control first, and so 508 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: in that Day of the Union address he announces that 509 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: his strategy for civil rights is to desegregate everything the 510 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: federal government controlled. So in nineteen fifty three he starts 511 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: with the District of Columbia schools, and then of course 512 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: the appointment of Earl Warren to the Supreme Court and 513 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: other federal judgeships, where he was very clear that white 514 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: supremacists need not apply in any case. It's a misunderstood 515 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: approach because he did not ascend what people call the 516 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: bully pulpit. However, he did ascend the bully pulpit around 517 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: the principles of civil rights, but he didn't call people 518 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: out personally. Because of the vote structure, and you'd be 519 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: way more aware of this than almost any other American. 520 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: The vote structure was such that he needed the support 521 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: even of Southerners to pass his nineteen fifty seven Civil 522 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: Rights Act. And by the way, those Southerners, some of 523 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: them segregationists, were actually leaders in the Democrats who held 524 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: six years in Congress to Eisenhower's eight years of presidency. 525 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: So it's a more subtle approach. But today the circumstances, 526 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: I guess require different approaches. But he did meet his objectives. 527 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: By the end, virtually everything that the federal government controlled, 528 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: including contracting and a range of other measures, had been desegregated. 529 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: By the time I left office. His most enduring contribution, 530 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: of course, where the judge ships had continued on. In 531 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: that sight. At the time you were about to be 532 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: at the dedication of the Eisenhower Memorial, I had a 533 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: chance to actually see them in Italy where they were 534 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: being stulted. They're huge, and their impressive, and it's going 535 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: to be quite immemorial. I'm humbled by it. If he 536 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: were alive, he would be humbled by it. I mean, 537 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: as he said during the war and his famous Guildhall address, 538 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: he said, the humility must be the portion of any 539 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: man who earns a claim in the blood of his 540 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: followers and the sacrifices of his friends. And I know 541 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: that's exactly the way he'd feel about this. I have 542 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: to say, mister Speaker, that part of what I really 543 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: love about this new memorial is that he's with other people, 544 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: and that's the way he would have wanted it. He 545 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: always thought in terms of teams. He led teams, but 546 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: the success had to be shared among all of us. 547 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: I always thought that when his knee was injured and 548 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: he couldn't play varsity football, but he ended up being 549 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: the coach for his university, that that experience of team 550 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: building stayed with him for his whole career. It was 551 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: instinct eve and deep in him, and he was as 552 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: good at as anybody in the twentieth century. Well, he 553 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: certainly believed in teamwork, and if you are going to 554 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: empower other people, you have to make sure that they 555 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: know that a leader is standing behind them and defending them. 556 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: He used to say that a commander or a leader's 557 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: job is to accept all of the blame and to 558 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: give all the credit to your subordinates. And he didn't 559 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: say that in a disappointed or cynical way at all. 560 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: On the contrary, he believed in it because this is 561 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: how you motivate a team to help move the cause forward. Well, 562 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: I want to thank you. I think it's wonderful that 563 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: you have done this book, and I think that it 564 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: will be something which people will really learn from. How 565 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: I led the principles behind Eisnower's biggest decisions. It's a 566 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: great thematic for your book, and I think you are 567 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: uniquely positioned to share with us from a very personal level, 568 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: and this has been a wonderful conversation. I'm just very 569 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: honored that you would take some time and chat with 570 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: us about it. Well, mister speaker, let me just thank 571 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: you again for this wonderful opportunity and to say what 572 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: a pleasure it has been to talk to you about 573 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: this subject. I'm very moved in thinking about your views 574 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: on this subject, So thank you very much. Thank you. 575 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: To my guest, Susan Eisenharker. You can read more about 576 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: the dedication of the new eisenhow Memorial and her new 577 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: book How I Led The Principles behind Eisenhower's Biggest Decisions 578 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is 579 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 1: produced by Gingwish through sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer 580 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 1: is Debbie Miers and our producer is Garnsey Slow. The 581 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Fenley. Special 582 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: thanks to the team at Gingwich three sixty. Please email 583 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: me with your questions at Gingwish three sixty dot com 584 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: slash questions. I'll answer a selection of questions in future episodes. 585 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: If you're want to enjoy Newtsworld, I hope you'll go 586 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars 587 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: and give us a review so others can learn what 588 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: it's all about. I'm new language. This is neutral.