1
00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,119
Speaker 1: today's best minds. And the White House has deleted the

4
00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:17,439
Speaker 1: COVID resource website and replaced it with a lab Leak

5
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:24,079
Speaker 1: promotion page, which makes Fox News look like the New Yorker.

6
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,040
Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. MSNBC's

7
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:34,239
Speaker 1: own Ellie Vitelli stops by to talk about democratic politics.

8
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:40,040
Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel about

9
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,560
Speaker 1: how democratic ags are fighting back against the Trump administration.

10
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 1: But first the news.

11
00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 2: So May yesterday, it was quite shocking to see Senator

12
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,559
Speaker 2: Chris van Holland from the great state of Maryland go

13
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 2: down to El Salvador and meet with Kilmar Abrigo Garcia.

14
00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,959
Speaker 1: So all people want, all they want is for their

15
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,720
Speaker 1: electeds to stand up and fight for them. And what's

16
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 1: really cool is that Maryland Senator Chris van Holland did that.

17
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,959
Speaker 1: He got on a plane, he flew down to El Salvador,

18
00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: he met with the Vice president. The vice president told

19
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,800
Speaker 1: him no, and then he sort of fought with him,

20
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,679
Speaker 1: and then he got to sit down and make sure

21
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,560
Speaker 1: that Garcia was okay, And look, here's the thing. You

22
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 1: don't have to like Garcia. You don't have to believe

23
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 1: in him. You don't have to believe that he's a

24
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,120
Speaker 1: good guy. You don't have to believe in any of that.

25
00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,160
Speaker 1: You just have to believe that he is entitled to

26
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,880
Speaker 1: do process, just like the Supreme Court, the wildly leftist

27
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:46,040
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, who said nine zero that Garcia is entitled

28
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,800
Speaker 1: to do process, that even though you know, he's not

29
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 1: a United States citizen, he's still entitled to due process.

30
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,200
Speaker 1: And by the way, that's like what our democracy has

31
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 1: founded on. Good for him. I think Republicans see what

32
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,800
Speaker 1: a loser this issue is for Trump. By the way,

33
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 1: the fact that they're like, you know, they said they

34
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,320
Speaker 1: were going to deport like one hundred million people. Ten

35
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 1: million people right there, barely can deport as many people

36
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 1: as Biden did, so that which is sort of popular.

37
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,800
Speaker 1: Deporting people. I don't know why it's popular, because I

38
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,639
Speaker 1: think it's gross. And by the way, we need those

39
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 1: people to work because we have a very tight labor market.

40
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:24,080
Speaker 1: But even that is not popular. It is popular. Trump

41
00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,200
Speaker 1: world can't figure out how to do it because they're

42
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,359
Speaker 1: super incomfident Trump World thinks they're going to win on

43
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,600
Speaker 1: Van Holland going down to meet with this guy to

44
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 1: make sure he's okay. And you know what, they're wrong.

45
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,640
Speaker 1: People hate this. People don't like you know, they don't

46
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:44,280
Speaker 1: like America sending whoever to El Salvadoran prisons. This is

47
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,160
Speaker 1: a loser for them, and they think the optics of

48
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,760
Speaker 1: it make them look good. They're wrong. I think they're

49
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,760
Speaker 1: really wrong on this, and I'm glad they're wrong on

50
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,079
Speaker 1: this because it's horrifying.

51
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,960
Speaker 2: I think one of the funniest things is that, you know,

52
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,880
Speaker 2: for years we were told, you know, nine thousand dollars

53
00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,440
Speaker 2: hammers in the government could easily find all these things

54
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,839
Speaker 2: to cut. You could easily find all these immigrants. And

55
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,400
Speaker 2: I don't even doubt that that's true, but they say

56
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 2: it can't seem to do it.

57
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 3: No.

58
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,640
Speaker 1: And also it's why we don't put a ton of

59
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 1: people at GIMO. It's really expensive, Like it's cheaper to

60
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 1: put them in private prisons in America. I mean, like

61
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,240
Speaker 1: the reason they're doing this is because they think that

62
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,840
Speaker 1: it's like good for the brand or whatever. But like

63
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,840
Speaker 1: you're flying people, tell Salvador, you're putting them in Seacott.

64
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,640
Speaker 1: You're being built by the El Salvadorian government. I mean

65
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 1: it's just very expensive. It's also just crazy and stupid

66
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 1: and a huge I mean waste of money, waste of time,

67
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,360
Speaker 1: waste of everything. Just to sort of like make a

68
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,440
Speaker 1: point that they think will be good. On Fox News

69
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: sixty Minutes report, they write, the administration hates sixty minutes

70
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,520
Speaker 1: because Donald Trump like lives in nineteen ninety seven, so

71
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 1: he's like obsessed with sixty. I also sixty, right, I mean,

72
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 1: like there are nine people watching sixty minutes, of one

73
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,160
Speaker 1: of them is Donald Trump. I mean that's not true.

74
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,080
Speaker 1: A lot of people watch sixty minutes, but ultimately all

75
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 1: traditional media is in decline. A sixty Minutes report found

76
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 1: most of the two hundred and thirty at Venezuelan and

77
00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 1: sent to Seacott on several planes last month and no

78
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 1: apparent criminal record. So you're sending people to jail who

79
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 1: may not have even done crimes, some of whom were

80
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,080
Speaker 1: protected by the federal government until Donald Trump became president.

81
00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,560
Speaker 1: So I don't know how you square this circle. Stration

82
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,240
Speaker 1: has defended its use of the law arguing gang violence,

83
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:33,479
Speaker 1: because why wouldn't they.

84
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,159
Speaker 2: So Bally in reaction to Trump defying the Supreme Court

85
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 2: and thinking that just because they ship people to Salvador,

86
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 2: they don't have to listen to our courts. We've started

87
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,040
Speaker 2: to see some calls for impeachment and.

88
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 1: Fucking impeach the guy. I mean, come on, he's you know,

89
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,080
Speaker 1: he's ignoring the Supreme Court, he's ignoring the courts. We

90
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,120
Speaker 1: are like beyond constitutional crisis. Now. Look, you know, the

91
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,840
Speaker 1: Republicans in Congress have been unbelievably cowardly and craven. And

92
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,640
Speaker 1: in fact, one of the things so we saw this

93
00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 1: week was Lisa Murkowski saying what all of us knew

94
00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 1: but we hadn't heard any Republicans say, which is the

95
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,359
Speaker 1: Republicans are scared. And I think that was really important

96
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,599
Speaker 1: because that's how we got here, is these people, Republicans Democrats,

97
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 1: all scared of Trump, scared of the administration, scared of

98
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 1: the mean phone calls, the mean tweets. So they're just

99
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 1: rolling over and I'm glad to see Democrats doing this.

100
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 1: By the way, public polling is with the Democrats. People

101
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,040
Speaker 1: don't like this. This is We've been a democracy for

102
00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,800
Speaker 1: a long time, and people don't Autocracy is actually just

103
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,960
Speaker 1: not that popular, and it's happening so quickly, and that

104
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,479
Speaker 1: is also a big problem. So we got Boseberg saying again,

105
00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,360
Speaker 1: I just want to point out one last thing. In

106
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 1: order to impeach Trump, you need to have the House.

107
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,600
Speaker 1: Democrats don't have the House yet. There is the three

108
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,120
Speaker 1: vote majority of Republicans have. There are some Democrats who

109
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 1: are old and sick. There are two who died. Their

110
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,359
Speaker 1: seats are not being allowed to be filled because they're

111
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,200
Speaker 1: in red states, and the red state governors are doing

112
00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 1: things that are pretty craven on lawless. Now that said

113
00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,160
Speaker 1: pretty sure, Kathy Hogel did the same thing, you know,

114
00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,920
Speaker 1: made sure that that other seat wasn't filled either. So

115
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,520
Speaker 1: we're really sort of in an impass here. And until

116
00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,120
Speaker 1: Democrats win the House, I think it's going to be

117
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,440
Speaker 1: hard to impeach Trump. But they should try, like they

118
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,080
Speaker 1: should put pressure. And by the way, keep calling your representatives,

119
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 1: call your congressman, call your senators, Blue states, red states,

120
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,839
Speaker 1: remind them that you don't like any of those.

121
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 2: So my David Hogg, previous guest of this podcast, was

122
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:41,520
Speaker 2: elected vice chair of the DNC and he has really

123
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,600
Speaker 2: pissed off the establishment dons here yeh.

124
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 1: Yes, actually such an interesting story. So David from David

125
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 1: from David Hogg, not to be confused with David from

126
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,600
Speaker 1: We Love You. David from David Hogg is a vice

127
00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,839
Speaker 1: chair of the Democratic National Committe, got this job this year.

128
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,120
Speaker 1: They're a couple of vice chairs. It was pretty contentious,

129
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,440
Speaker 1: these plans to spend twenty million dollars to primary older

130
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 1: Democratic incumbents. This is something that a lot of us

131
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,920
Speaker 1: think is probably the right thing. We have people in leadership,

132
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,440
Speaker 1: and not just in leadership, just you know, we have

133
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 1: people in the Democratic Party, the Republican Party too, but

134
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,880
Speaker 1: you know, there's nothing we can do there who are

135
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,400
Speaker 1: in their eighties or some of them are in their

136
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,440
Speaker 1: high seventies, and they rank for another six year term

137
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 1: which will get them somewhere in their eighties. It is

138
00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 1: probably the moment, especially right now, when so much is

139
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,120
Speaker 1: on the table, and like what I just said about

140
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,680
Speaker 1: these two Democrats who died in office, it really is

141
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 1: a sense that is the right time for this. That

142
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 1: said Democrats are passed. So since they were pissed, and

143
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,440
Speaker 1: since they're so brave, they all spoke anonymously, because why

144
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't they a smear campaign against me to destroy my

145
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,120
Speaker 1: Repi Tach and forced me to stop doing this. They're

146
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,640
Speaker 1: just not happy. Axios did not receive a response. So

147
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,800
Speaker 1: leaders we deserve is this group. There's some infighting here

148
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:17,200
Speaker 1: and a lot of good Anonymous angry octagenarians complaining about

149
00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,400
Speaker 1: David probably a good sign for.

150
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,120
Speaker 2: David my In more disturbing news, Trump has revamped Schedule Left,

151
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,440
Speaker 2: making it easier to cut federal workers, which we knew

152
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,320
Speaker 2: was going to happen because we've read Project twenty twenty five.

153
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we read it. We did a video series on it,

154
00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,720
Speaker 1: and then Americans just decided to go for them anyway

155
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,199
Speaker 1: because they like the sneakers and the NFTs. So Schedule

156
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,760
Speaker 1: app will make it easier to cut federal workers. We

157
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,720
Speaker 1: knew this was coming. The idea here is stripping civil

158
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,160
Speaker 1: protections from about fifty thousand people, two percent of the

159
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:58,560
Speaker 1: federal workforce. This will make it easier to fire people.

160
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 1: A nonpartisan role is traditionally that you know, they're not political,

161
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,920
Speaker 1: but Trump wants to replace them with loyalists. Of course,

162
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,480
Speaker 1: this is what he wants to do because remember Trump

163
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 1: felt that he was not able to enact his craziest

164
00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 1: stuff because he felt the deep state was against him.

165
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:24,200
Speaker 1: So now he'll be able to cut people who are

166
00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 1: working on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. Some of them will

167
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:35,000
Speaker 1: be working on whatever the coding or the you know,

168
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 1: things that are not partisan one way or the other.

169
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,400
Speaker 1: But he'll replace them with people where he can fire

170
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,280
Speaker 1: them or do whatever he wants. And it's going to

171
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 1: be totally It's just exactly what we knew was coming,

172
00:09:49,000 --> 00:10:00,400
Speaker 1: and it's very annoying and also super upset. Ali is

173
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,720
Speaker 1: an NBC News correspondent and the author of Electable, Why

174
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,720
Speaker 1: America hasn't put a woman in the White House yet.

175
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Ali.

176
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,280
Speaker 4: Vitally real to be back, Molly John Fass.

177
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,080
Speaker 1: You and I are in the salt mines mining the content.

178
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,440
Speaker 1: Can we just talk about the Congress and what the

179
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,600
Speaker 1: fuck they're doing right now? Because like, we have a

180
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,120
Speaker 1: wrongly deported guy. We have Senator Chris van Holland he's

181
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 1: wrongly deported. The Supreme Court said nine to zero, you

182
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,560
Speaker 1: have to bring him back. Okay, we don't know anything

183
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 1: except you have to bring him back. Right, It's pretty

184
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 1: big deal.

185
00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 4: Despite the White House wanting to will fully misread that decision,

186
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 4: in part the Supreme Court gave them some loopholes, right right.

187
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,400
Speaker 1: No, No, it's a Supreme court. They suck. I mean,

188
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,080
Speaker 1: you don't have to say they suck. I'll say they

189
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 1: suck because I'm on the opinion side. But they were like,

190
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,520
Speaker 1: you need to bring him back. Okay, So Chris van

191
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,120
Speaker 1: Holland goes to see him, make sure he's not dead

192
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,439
Speaker 1: because he's been in elcot So there's a real chance,

193
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's not impossible. This is not

194
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 1: a prison known for it's you know, it's not known

195
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:12,360
Speaker 1: for the.

196
00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:13,800
Speaker 4: Spa luffy pillows.

197
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:19,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so explain to me what Congress is doing. They're out,

198
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,640
Speaker 1: they're out for two weeks.

199
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,240
Speaker 4: Ago, they're out for two weeks. But recess is just

200
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 4: another it's it's a different now to lose. There's two

201
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,800
Speaker 4: pieces of this that I think are really important. There's

202
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 4: the way that Senator Van Holland is going to check

203
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,160
Speaker 4: on his constituent, which I've seen competing ideas on whether

204
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,640
Speaker 4: or not this was a good idea about idea like

205
00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:46,079
Speaker 4: the basis clamoring for fight nothing, he says, fight, but

206
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,720
Speaker 4: getting on a plane going to El Salvador and being

207
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,320
Speaker 4: like knock knock, I'm here, let me see my guy.

208
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,720
Speaker 4: The other pieces of this is the way that it's

209
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,080
Speaker 4: percolating among voters, and I think that there is a

210
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,200
Speaker 4: nuance to this that is intant. Right, Like, I spend

211
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,040
Speaker 4: a lot of time in Iowa because I'm sick and

212
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,320
Speaker 4: I love campaigns, and so every three years I spend

213
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,000
Speaker 4: of Iowa exactly in Des Moines. I love this place.

214
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:10,600
Speaker 4: As a New Yorker, those are words I never thought

215
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 4: I would say.

216
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,560
Speaker 1: But you live in DC, so the bar is pretty low.

217
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,240
Speaker 1: Go on, yes, that's true.

218
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,360
Speaker 4: The veteran senior Republican Senator Chuck Grassley is hearing from

219
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,400
Speaker 4: his elderly more older constituents. You see it in that video.

220
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 4: Why can't you bring this guy back? It's not the

221
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,440
Speaker 4: job of commerce. Okay, that's true. There's no like congressional

222
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,079
Speaker 4: right to bring back a deported person. And that's fine.

223
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 4: It's not an impoundment, which they do have rights on, right.

224
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 1: Right, right, I mean, god forbid, though didn't want to

225
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 1: use them, but yes, didn't want to make trumpt.

226
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:40,520
Speaker 3: Correct, right.

227
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 4: But the fact that you're being asked about it there

228
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 4: in Iowa, in a red state, really struck me as notable,

229
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 4: and I think that the White House was struck by

230
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,120
Speaker 4: that too, Maybe not the Iowa specifically of it, but

231
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,360
Speaker 4: broadly because we've forged to go on offense this week,

232
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,880
Speaker 4: showing the work that we've all been asking them to show,

233
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,720
Speaker 4: why do you debort this guy in the first place,

234
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 4: and then also trying to shift the narrative not to

235
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,080
Speaker 4: the central question here of due process, the constitution, and

236
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,920
Speaker 4: how we do legal justice in this country, but instead

237
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:16,920
Speaker 4: shifting it to unrelated though tragic conflicts and tragedies between migrants,

238
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,920
Speaker 4: undocumented migrants, and American citizens. In this case, they're pointing

239
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,440
Speaker 4: to a Maryland case with Rachel Morin, but they're trying

240
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 4: to shift the narrative, and I think that it's a

241
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,439
Speaker 4: sign from them that they're not going to back down.

242
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 4: They want to have this fight, but they needed to

243
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,520
Speaker 4: do more, and we watched them change this week.

244
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,920
Speaker 1: I think one of the big problems we saw with

245
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,280
Speaker 1: the trade stuff was that it's very hard for an

246
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,080
Speaker 1: administration that is makes George W. Bush look like Lincoln.

247
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 1: A good example of trade wars. You can't have a

248
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,480
Speaker 1: trade war with China when you're also having a trade

249
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,320
Speaker 1: war with everyone else.

250
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,559
Speaker 4: Discuss well, I've been covering Trump for a really long time, right.

251
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,199
Speaker 4: I started covering him during the twenty fifteen campaign. I

252
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 4: think I got their two week's post escalator, and every

253
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,240
Speaker 4: single time you were eleven, I was eleven years old,

254
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 4: very eager to get started, right exactly. But every time

255
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,680
Speaker 4: from that moment all the way through now, when he

256
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,120
Speaker 4: finds himself in hot water on anything, he pivots hard

257
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,679
Speaker 4: back into immigration. And that is why I think you're

258
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,600
Speaker 4: right to tie tariffs and the way that polling shows

259
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,360
Speaker 4: he's losing steam on confidence from Americans in his economic

260
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,480
Speaker 4: handling to pivot back to something where the polling actually

261
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 4: shows that this is probably where the bulk of his

262
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,560
Speaker 4: power lies, not just with MAGA, because I think that's

263
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,920
Speaker 4: more integrated with cultural issues and everything else, including immigration,

264
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,360
Speaker 4: but with Independence and others who voted for him in

265
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,760
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. Immigration is where they feel like they

266
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,920
Speaker 4: can really flex their muscle and maybe distract from the

267
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 4: tariff news, which is hard for even Republicans on Capitol

268
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,560
Speaker 4: Hill to stomach, who seem to have a bottomless amount

269
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 4: of goodwill towards the president, or at least fear of

270
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 4: stepping out of line from him, so I think you're

271
00:14:58,440 --> 00:14:59,520
Speaker 4: right to tie those.

272
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 1: We had Lisa Murkowski yesterday. I say people are scared

273
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 1: to speak at against him, something we had known. But

274
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,480
Speaker 1: to have Lisa Murkowski say it, and even not to

275
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 1: have Susan Collins say it, who is up for reelection

276
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,560
Speaker 1: in twenty six, I think is meaningful. You tell me

277
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:16,720
Speaker 1: why you think it's meaningful.

278
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,720
Speaker 4: The dynamics are different between Alaska and Maine, but we

279
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,920
Speaker 4: talk about both of these women a lot because they

280
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 4: are the consistent Republicans that are willing to stand up

281
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,960
Speaker 4: and say, actually I disagree, which should not be notable.

282
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,440
Speaker 4: But is I think two fold right. The fact that

283
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,280
Speaker 4: Murkowski is willing to just say politically in my party

284
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 4: right now, I am afraid in a safety sense. Not

285
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,440
Speaker 4: afraid politically, though that's swirling too. I'm afraid in a

286
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,600
Speaker 4: safety sense for what it might look like to speak

287
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,240
Speaker 4: out against the president who I have policy disagreements with.

288
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 4: I think that is just such a stunning commentary on

289
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,520
Speaker 4: where our politics are right now. And I always check

290
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,520
Speaker 4: in with the Capitol Police on where the numbers are.

291
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,680
Speaker 4: Threat levels towards members of Congress have only been rising

292
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,280
Speaker 4: since the start of the first Trump administration, and I

293
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 4: think Murkowski saying that is really an important sign post

294
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,360
Speaker 4: to us that it's not just political disagreement anymore. There

295
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:21,280
Speaker 4: are really tangible, scary threats attached to this for lawmakers

296
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 4: and their family. Tom Tillis is another one. His office

297
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 4: has sent to us examples of the kinds of calls

298
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 4: and threats that he and his office are getting. He's

299
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 4: someone who's even just toyed with stepping out of line

300
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 4: with the administration, and he's in and on year. He's

301
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,200
Speaker 4: a twenty twenty six guy. It's scary. It's a scary

302
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,560
Speaker 4: commentary on our politics.

303
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 1: So let's talk for a minute about what the landscape

304
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 1: looks like here. I talked to Anne Applebaum yesterday. Anne

305
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 1: Applebaum said, there is nothing more important than this next election.

306
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,400
Speaker 1: The democracy literally hinges on this next election in twenty six.

307
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 1: So Democrats need to win back the House. That is

308
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,240
Speaker 1: pretty likely. I think, talk me through why you think

309
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 1: it might not be likely.

310
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 3: I don't know.

311
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:09,359
Speaker 4: I mean I covered ceaselessly the prior to years of

312
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 4: a Republican controlled Congress, and it was absolute dysfunctional cast.

313
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 4: And when I say dysfunctional, I mean it was not

314
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,360
Speaker 4: functioning for like literally weeks because they ousted their own speaker,

315
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 4: and all the Democrats to do is stand back and watch.

316
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 4: And I remember the conversations I had the sources then saying,

317
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,320
Speaker 4: if you don't flip the House in twenty twenty four,

318
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know what we're doing here, and

319
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,159
Speaker 4: obviously you know they didn't. And you can make a

320
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 4: redistricting argument for that, losing three seats in North Carolina.

321
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 4: The three seat margin is what you've got right now. Fine,

322
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,640
Speaker 4: I hear that as an argument, but no one really

323
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 4: cares when you're arguing technicalities. They just care about what

324
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,639
Speaker 4: the actual circumstances. And you have a Republican majority now, however,

325
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:50,359
Speaker 4: thin it is.

326
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,399
Speaker 1: Right, So okay, So Democrats need to win the House,

327
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 1: and then the senatemap is really hard. So I mean,

328
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: the House is hard, but the setamap is really fucking hard.

329
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,760
Speaker 1: So let's talk about this Senate map. In twenty six

330
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:09,439
Speaker 1: we have Maine, tell mey, Maine, North Carolina, we have

331
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 1: maybe Nebraska, we have New Hampshire which is already blue.

332
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,320
Speaker 1: For Democrats to do this, they have to run the

333
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,680
Speaker 1: fucking tables.

334
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,919
Speaker 4: Yes, And I also think I brought up New Hampshire

335
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,159
Speaker 4: and I brought up Georgia, which are currently blue, but

336
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 4: they are also in cycle. And I think those are

337
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 4: actually going to be stories of candidate recruitment on the

338
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 4: Republican side, because perhaps the strongest person who could have

339
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 4: flipped the New Hampshire seat would have been the former

340
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,120
Speaker 4: governor Chris Nunu, and he said no, thank you, even

341
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,199
Speaker 4: after trump pit said I would back him, which was

342
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 4: definitely a brush off of Tim Scott at the NRSC. Also,

343
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 4: if they don't get Brian Kemp to run in Georgia,

344
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,240
Speaker 4: that's also going to be a really tough slog for Republicans,

345
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 4: but those were their two seats for expansion. Then you

346
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 4: start getting into places like Maine and Nebraska. Nebraska, the

347
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 4: guy is running as an independent. It's the same guy

348
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 4: who challenged deb Fisher, and so yeah, like.

349
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,160
Speaker 1: I fucking rules, So I mean he is amazing.

350
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 4: We'll see, right, and then we're starting to see the

351
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 4: field take shape up in Maine at this early point.

352
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 4: But Democrats threw tens of millions of dollars at that

353
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 4: race the last time that Susan Collins was up with

354
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,200
Speaker 4: Sarah Gideon, and it didn't ultimately work out. I mean,

355
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 4: the thing that people have to remember is it's really

356
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 4: hard to take on incumbents, and there is such a

357
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 4: muscle memory for voters who might not see it as

358
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 4: partisan ly and that could be in this world here.

359
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,200
Speaker 1: There are other seats that seem less likely, but for example,

360
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 1: if you were to have share a Brown run in Ohio,

361
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: that could work.

362
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

363
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,399
Speaker 4: I mean, I am also someone I've covered all of

364
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 4: Shared Brown's re elections, and I think that he was

365
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 4: the tough recipient this cycle of how much sway Trump has,

366
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 4: but he regularly outperforms Democrats in the Obama years. This

367
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,640
Speaker 4: was true, So there's a potential there, especially that there's

368
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,360
Speaker 4: no presidential when he would go back up in cycle.

369
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 4: He is a singular figure I think in democratic Ohio politics.

370
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 4: That's really fascinating. Tim Ryan, I think, is also similarly

371
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 4: situated and would be interesting there, but has seemingly resisted

372
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 4: those calls, at least for now. I think he's got

373
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 4: his eye on something else that he's also run for

374
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 4: in the past.

375
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 3: Potentially president president.

376
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 1: Tim Ryan is going to run for president.

377
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 3: I don't know that.

378
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 4: I'm just looking at the landscape and I think that

379
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 4: anyone who saw a fertile ground in twenty twenty and thought, sure,

380
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 4: let me join the pack. That's the Seth Multon's, the

381
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 4: Eric Swalwells, the Tim Ryans. Right, there is way more

382
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 4: of a case to be made for running on the

383
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,919
Speaker 4: twenty twenty eight fertile soil of there is literally no

384
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,399
Speaker 4: leader of this party right now. I couldn't tell you

385
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 4: who the front runner would be, Like why wouldn't you

386
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,959
Speaker 4: make a second go of it, especially now that your

387
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 4: national profile in your donor base is that much bigger.

388
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 4: But I mean, I don't capital ka know that. But

389
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 4: if I'm musing and putting together the loose list of

390
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 4: presidentials that I always put together, like, yeah, he'd be

391
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 4: on it.

392
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: Somebody has me this at breakfast today. Who is the

393
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: leader of the Democratic part It's like the worst thing

394
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 1: ever When people ask you that at a cocktail party,

395
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 1: You're like, fuck you, I.

396
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 4: Need to go to a different party. That's the question

397
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 4: of the cocco.

398
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,160
Speaker 1: So who is the leader of the Democratic perkat.

399
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 4: Oh, there's like the technical answer that I actually give

400
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 4: at cocktail parties, which is like you've got Senator Schumer

401
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 4: and you've got leader Jeffreys, and those are your two

402
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 4: Democratic leaders.

403
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 1: That gets people really mad, right, I know it does.

404
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I ask this actually to every Democratic elected

405
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 4: that I interview, and all of them sort of pivot

406
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 4: to that answer too. But I think that the more

407
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,360
Speaker 4: honest answer and the less technical one is like there

408
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 4: is not one, and like that's just the reality of

409
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 4: the situation. I think that it leaves governors, though, in

410
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 4: a very interesting position to try to figure out what

411
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 4: it looks like to lead in this environment. Is it

412
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom trying to understand and make sense of the

413
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 4: MAGA movement while trying to preserve progressive credentials? I don't

414
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 4: know with the podcast. Is it Gretchen Whitmer, who's trying

415
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 4: to get stuff done for her state because she's in

416
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 4: a very purple state. Maybe yeah?

417
00:21:59,200 --> 00:21:59,439
Speaker 1: Is it?

418
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 4: You know Andy Basheer is trying to do some mix

419
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 4: of those two things in Kentucky. I think governors have

420
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 4: a real opportunity because they're not tied to the mess

421
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 4: of Washington. They are their own executives, and so I

422
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 4: think any name is a good name to throw out

423
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 4: there right now, and that's probably why the field is

424
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 4: going to be absolutely massive.

425
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: I want you to talk about Gretchen Whitmer because I

426
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: talked to another smart analyst who is in our business,

427
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 1: who's a friend of ours, and she was like, Whitmer

428
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: did the right thing. And I was like, Whitmer was

429
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: hiding behind a fucking envelope. Like, if your life gets

430
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: you to a place where you're hiding behind an envelope,

431
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 1: something has gone horribly wrong.

432
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 4: Discuss there are so many moments I've wanted to hide

433
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 4: behind an aye, Like, honestly, I felt.

434
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: That who we even knew that was available.

435
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 4: I did not know that was available, but I felt

436
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 4: I felt that when I saw those pictures of her.

437
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: Look.

438
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 4: I mean, on the one hand, you've got to expect

439
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 4: that if you're going to the White House to meet

440
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 4: with Trump as she has done, and I get why

441
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 4: she's trying to do that.

442
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 1: I think I get it.

443
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 4: Typically for her job. She is doing the right thing

444
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 4: for Michigan when they needed FEMA funds, they needed emergency relief.

445
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 4: She has a lot of red coalitions in her state,

446
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 4: Like this makes sense from a Michigan perspective, And I

447
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 4: think we can't expect people to do their current jobs

448
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 4: while looking ahead to potentially maybe one day wanting to

449
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 4: run for present. I don't think we can ask people

450
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 4: to do that, But I think you also have to

451
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 4: go in with a plan expecting that the president who

452
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,959
Speaker 4: loves to pull one over on Democrats and anyone else. Frankly,

453
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 4: Democrats are Republicans, Like, you got to go in with

454
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 4: a plan for that, and the plan is not a

455
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 4: Manilla folder.

456
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: Well was blue?

457
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 3: Oh?

458
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: Sure. The thing that is interesting though is I have

459
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: seen people and I want to talk about this, Like,

460
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: for example, a really great example is the mayor of Washington,

461
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: d C, Mariyo Baussar. She has had very good success.

462
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: Washington DC was in this terrible situation where they were

463
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: about to lose all their money and end up as

464
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: like a principal of you know nothing, I'm.

465
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 4: A DC resident, I was walking closely.

466
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she ended up being able to manipulate Trump

467
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: into doing what she wanted. Now, there is a thin

468
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: line between manipulating Trump and just going along with him.

469
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: Maybe many an institution has cratered on the thought that

470
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: they were manipulating Trump when really Trump was just running

471
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: all over them. So explain to me what the difference

472
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: here is.

473
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 4: I think Pelosi is a good case study in this

474
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 4: from the first term. Right understood her leverage her power

475
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 4: the ways that she could as someone who have at

476
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 4: least some understanding of a relationship with Trump before right,

477
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 4: you can gain wins and notch wins. I just think

478
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 4: that this version of the administration is so different because

479
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 4: he is unencumbered it used to be in the last administration.

480
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 4: You have competing views there, and that's why Democrats like

481
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 4: Pelosi or even Schumer could make inroads in some of

482
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 4: the those meetings. I remember, you know them sitting around

483
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 4: and seeing them be able to pull leverage points. I

484
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 4: think those days are gone though, because this administration is

485
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 4: so into the red meat. They're like died in the wool.

486
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 4: Everyone in there is marching to the same beat in

487
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 4: the same direction. You're not having dissension in the ranks

488
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 4: this time, and I think it leaves very little room

489
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 4: and input for Democrats except in the rare instances like

490
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 4: what we've talked about. I mean, Whitmer had a targeted goal.

491
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 4: She went in there. She wants to make inroads on

492
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 4: tariffs because autos in Detroit are going to be heavily

493
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 4: hit by that. You've got the same thing from Maria Bowser.

494
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 4: You can't have the entire district of Columbia decimated because

495
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 4: of conservative budget priorities taking precedence. I mean, like that

496
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 4: can't work, But I think the opportunities are limited, and

497
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 4: Democrats are now really stuck between their base, absolutely hating

498
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 4: any idea of going to Trump for anything, even though

499
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 4: the reality sometimes demands that where are you going to

500
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 4: get the FEMA funding from? If it's not from the

501
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 4: federal government and you're a governor whose state just got hit.

502
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 4: I mean politics has to be put aside there, even

503
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 4: though I know Trump never does that like other people

504
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 4: have to.

505
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: So this is a real thing. You can't be seen

506
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: with him, but you desperately need him.

507
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 4: To the extent that anyone needs a president.

508
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 1: Yeah right, I mean they control the whole federal government.

509
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: When people say they need to do something, Democrats need

510
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 1: to do something, what's available for them to do?

511
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 4: This is like the central question, and I fully feel

512
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 4: the visceral angst at all of these town halls. I've

513
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 4: been to several of them for Democrats who are like, please,

514
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 4: Dear God, just do something, And I ask voters, what

515
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 4: do you think they should do?

516
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: What are your ideas.

517
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 4: I mean, what would you tell your lawmaker if they said,

518
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 4: I'll do whatever you want me to do, just tell

519
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 4: me what it is. And many of them don't know.

520
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 4: They just want to see the fight, and so actually

521
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 4: to bring it back to where we started, like someone

522
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 4: like Chris van Holland physically going like it shows an

523
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 4: out of the box way of trying to show that

524
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 4: something is being done, when the reality of at least

525
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 4: Congress is that if you're in the minority, you're just

526
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 4: not afforded a lot of room to flex muscle. You

527
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 4: can gum up nominations. Brian Schatz is doing that, Reuben

528
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 4: Gaego is doing that, some others are trying to do that. Okay,

529
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 4: that's an option, but there's really not much that you

530
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 4: can do other than voting no and viscerally explaining why

531
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 4: this would be bad for the American public. And they're

532
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 4: trying to do that. There's competing views on like should

533
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 4: it just be on the economy, should it just be

534
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 4: on the constitution. Like there's so much debate inside the

535
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 4: party right now about what the fertile ground is to

536
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 4: fight on that it does waste time and it muddles

537
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 4: the message. But like every Republican strategist that I talk

538
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 4: to says that if Democrats can actually get their act

539
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 4: together with a cohesive economic message and the tariff driven

540
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 4: economy that we're seeing right now remains, which is to say, skittish,

541
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 4: erratic all over the place, then Republicans are worried about

542
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 4: what that would look like in the midterms. But there's

543
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 4: just such a long time to sustain between today April eighteenth,

544
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 4: nineteenth twentieth and twenty twenty six November. It's just an eternity.

545
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: Ali Vitally, thank you.

546
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 4: I don't know that I brought humor, but I tried

547
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 4: to bring joy. I brought diet coke, so I definitely

548
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 4: brought joy for myself.

549
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: You spark to joy. Dana Nssel is the Attorney General

550
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: of the Great State of Michigan. Welcome to Fast Context.

551
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: Dana Nassel, thank you so much for having me. So

552
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: you are the Attorney General of the State of Michigan.

553
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: What is going on?

554
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 3: I mean, how many days do we have for this podcast?

555
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 1: How are you doing this? And also how hard is it?

556
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: And also what is the federal government doing? Well, that's

557
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: a lot.

558
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: I will say this, you know, I've taken the position

559
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 3: since not just this term enough, but when I first

560
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 3: frand profits in twenty eighteen that it was really important

561
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: to hold the federal government accountable for trespasses of the

562
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 3: people of our respective states. As attorneys general, that is,

563
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 3: in fact our jobs. And you know, we did that.

564
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: Then the Democratic Ags formed a coalition and we filed

565
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 3: you know, dozens and dozens of laws suits, and I

566
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: look back on it now. We were very successful. We won,

567
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 3: you know, well over eighty percent of our cases. And

568
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 3: sometimes I think maybe we were too successful. Yeah, I

569
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: often think that so many of the worst policies of

570
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 3: the Trump first Trump administration never went into effect because

571
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 3: of the work that the Democratic Ages did and a

572
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: lot of other partner you know, organizations, nonprofits and law

573
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 3: firms who you know, who took on the administration. But

574
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: I think people didn't remember how bad it was in

575
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: the first administration because so many of these policies didn't

576
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: take effect only because of our lawsuits. But it just

577
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: emboldened him to be even more aggressive the second time around.

578
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 3: And I will say this, I was thinking about it

579
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: this morning. Everybody you know of a certain generation remembers

580
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 3: where they are when JFK was murdered or my generation,

581
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: we all remember we were for nine to eleven, you

582
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: know what we were doing. But for me personally, I

583
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: remember what I was doing when the Trump immunity decision

584
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 3: came down from the United States Supreme Court, because I said,

585
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 3: this is going to change America forever if we have

586
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 3: a president who not just has inclinations to be completely

587
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: lawless and disregard federal law and disregard to Constitution and

588
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: disregard people's civil rights, but he now has the legal

589
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 3: authority to do it, as granted to him by the

590
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 3: highest court in the land. And I think so we've

591
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 3: seen that happen repeatedly since day one that he's been

592
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 3: in office this term.

593
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so where are you right now? Would led to

594
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: what's happening?

595
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: Well, when you say with legislation, I mean you know that's.

596
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: I mean with I'm sorry, with litigation, I mean litigation

597
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: and not legislation. God forbid, nobody's legislating, just litigating.

598
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 3: No, we only have two branches of office government right now. Yeah,

599
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: Congress has given up yeah, right, the executive and the

600
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: courts the end. So Michigan at this point, and I

601
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: have to look at like what day of the week

602
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 3: it is to know this. We have either initiated litigation

603
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,479
Speaker 3: or jointed litigation in ten separate cases, and we have

604
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 3: filed a meeky briefs and well over that in supporting

605
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: other parties who have brought suit.

606
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: But you know, I will say.

607
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 3: That generally speaking, our litigation has been pretty successful in

608
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 3: many different fornts, and it especially has been the case

609
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 3: when you have the federal government just flagrantly violating their

610
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 3: contracts with the States to fund all sorts of things,

611
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: and whether it's our most major and important programs like

612
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 3: Medicaid and Headstart and meals on reels, I mean snap programs.

613
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: The list goes on and on, whether it has to

614
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 3: do with NIH funding medical experiments and treatments, whether it

615
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 3: has to do with you know, public education grants or

616
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 3: grants that were to our public health departments. I mean,

617
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 3: the list goes on and on and on. We have

618
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 3: been pretty successful in getting courts to say you have

619
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 3: to reinitiate the funding for this money that was promised

620
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 3: to the states and promised to the grantees from the States.

621
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 3: And of course we've had other cases like you know,

622
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: birthright citizenship, which is now on its way to the

623
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: Supreme Court in a variety of other cases.

624
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: But you know, it's been a lot, so you keep winning, right,

625
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: and that's what we're seeing in the courts, like none

626
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: of this is legal. All of this is not. So

627
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: Harvard's a great example, Like Harvard didn't agree to go

628
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: into receivership because why would they and also because they

629
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: have enough people there to know that it's completely not legal.

630
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: So explain to me why anyone does things this administration

631
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: wants when we know so much of it is not legal.

632
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 3: I'm really glad that you asked this question because I've

633
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 3: been talking to so many different stakeholders and I will

634
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: tell you this and candidly, I was just on the

635
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: phone before, you know, our conversation with somebody from my

636
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: alma mater, the University of Michigan, which I used to

637
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: have great pride in leaders in best But to me,

638
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 3: they have largely capitulated to the administration and many different things.

639
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: But to what end?

640
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 3: Because the next day you find out that more of

641
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: your grants have been terminated there. And if we've learned

642
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 3: anything from for instance, whether it's what's happened at Columbia,

643
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 3: whether it's what's happened with many of the law firms

644
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: that struck agreements with Trump and the administration, it's never enough.

645
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 3: And the very next day, whatever agreement you think you have,

646
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 3: you don't really have an agreement, because Trump is not

647
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 3: a good faith actor. He does not keep his word,

648
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 3: and it doesn't matter what sort of agreement you believe

649
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 3: you have, it will never be enough for him. And

650
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 3: that's why I have been so dead set against those

651
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 3: who have sought to appease the president. And of course,

652
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 3: you know there's that old Churchill quote. An appeuser is

653
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 3: one who feeds the alligator hoping that he will be eaten.

654
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 3: Lath and I might have paraphrased that it might be

655
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 3: a crocodile and not an alligator, right, And they won't

656
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 3: be Eventually, they're going to get eat it's just how

657
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 3: long will it take to get to them? Right? So,

658
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: to me, the only way that we can truly have

659
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 3: any level of six is to have as many stakeholders

660
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 3: as possible, all joining together and saying this is not right,

661
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 3: this is not okay. We are not going to just

662
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 3: accept whether it's the flagrant racism and sexism, and xenophobia,

663
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 3: or the openly violation of court orders over and over again,

664
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 3: or kidnapping legal asylum seekers or student visa holders off

665
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 3: the streets, and all the rest of it. But we

666
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 3: all come together and push back and say this is

667
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 3: not okay. We're going to join forces their strength in numbers,

668
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: and we're not going to look back in this period

669
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 3: of time and say we could have done more to

670
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 3: save our democracy and to save the reputation and the

671
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 3: sanctity of the United States of America.

672
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: We just chose not too. We took another route. So

673
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: let's talk about that. Because there's so many people in

674
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 1: this country who desperately want their electeds to stand up

675
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: for democracy, and there are so few Democrats who are

676
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: actually doing it. Why is that?

677
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 3: You know? I can't speak for anybody else, but I

678
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 3: will say to those Democrats that have not stood up

679
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 3: more strongly, I think we're going to have a limited

680
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 3: period of time where we can still do this. And

681
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: at some point we're going to see the insurrection actor invoked,

682
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 3: which I think is probably going to happen sooner rather

683
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 3: than later, and we're going to see armed military personnel

684
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 3: and National Guards troops in the streets, and we are

685
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 3: going to see the complete erosion of the federal government,

686
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 3: whether it's you know, the Security Administration, the Department of

687
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: Health and Human Services, you know, the list goes on

688
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 3: or on.

689
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: What do you do?

690
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 3: Then, Well, what I think is is this, and this

691
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: is what I've been promoting, is that the only real

692
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 3: way I think that we have a chance at salvaging

693
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 3: the country that we've all grown up to know and

694
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,439
Speaker 3: love is to be as bold as possible in fighting back.

695
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 3: To let us let our neighbors, our friends, you know,

696
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: our co workers, our families understand exactly how bad these

697
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 3: policies are and to not be shy about it. And

698
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 3: for those of us who have some supporters in their

699
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 3: family to really take the time instead of just avoiding

700
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 3: the Papa ball together, take the time to make them

701
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 3: understand what it means when we lose social security, what

702
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 3: it means when the CDC shuts down, and now it's

703
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 3: impossible to fight the next to bola or bird flu,

704
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 3: these erratic tariffs, and what that's going to mean for

705
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 3: our savings and our ability to afford basic necessities of life.

706
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: To have those conversations, but to make people understand why

707
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: we are out there peacefully and lawfully protesting the government,

708
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 3: and candidly for people to talk to their family members

709
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: and their friends that they know who are in active

710
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: military service or who do serve in our state's national guards,

711
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: and so that when we are out in the streets,

712
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 3: and studys have shown it only takes three point five

713
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: percent of a nation's population to peacefully fight back in

714
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 3: order to stop a country that is sliding very quickly

715
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 3: from a democracy into an autocratic regime. You know, on

716
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 3: April fifth, we got like five and a half million

717
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,959
Speaker 3: people out there to do it. It only take maybe

718
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 3: twelve million people in the United States to come out

719
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: till I think we'll see maybe Congress will finally start

720
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 3: to take back their authority, understanding that they have the

721
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: legal right and opportunity, and I would argue the obligation

722
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 3: to actually start taking back their power, and they would

723
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 3: win in the courts if they challenged it. And there

724
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 3: needs to be the threats by Congress against a president

725
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 3: that you will face impeachment if you don't work with us.

726
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 3: And here's the thing that I find to be so

727
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 3: insane about it is, if you look at all the

728
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 3: most important pieces of legislation that have had long time

729
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: impact on our country. And whether it's the you know,

730
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 3: the ACA under Obama, or the Civil Rights Act or

731
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 3: Voting Rights Actor or LBJ or even more recently, you know,

732
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 3: the Inflation Reduction Actor and the Infrastructure Act by Biden.

733
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 3: Could you imagine if any of them tried to do

734
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 3: that by executive fiat, by signing an executive order instead

735
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 3: of negotiating with Congress. So Congress, take back your power

736
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 3: that again Article one, the very first article of the

737
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 3: Constitution that was provided to you, and make sure the

738
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 3: president knows that if he does not abide by that,

739
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 3: then Congress is going to go to the courts for

740
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 3: the certain when on a number of different issues that

741
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 3: you know, the state ags have had to file on

742
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 3: in many other parties. But for civilians, in terms of

743
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: what they can do, they can go out to these

744
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 3: rallies and again not be violent, not be aggressive, not

745
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: just quite law enforcement, because law enforcement they need to

746
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 3: understand this too. Many of them are going to lose

747
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 3: their job. And for members of the military, they need

748
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: to look at how this administration has treated veterans and say,

749
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: you know, don't shoot your grandma in the face. For

750
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 3: this guy. I mean, it's not worth it.

751
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, don't treat your grandma in the face for

752
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: this guy. That's pretty disturbing. So you think we're going

753
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: to need to get to this trades.

754
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 3: I think it's going to be one of the most

755
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 3: important things that we can do, if for no other reason,

756
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 3: to send the message to Congress that we're not okay

757
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 3: with this and that as as Americans, we are going

758
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 3: to fight again, lawfully and peacefully for all the rights

759
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 3: that we cherish in this country and where we are

760
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 3: not okay with becoming an oligarchy or a regime that

761
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 3: is anything other than a democracy.

762
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: It is good news. So and you tell me if

763
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: you think this is true that the tariffs have really

764
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 1: had an effect. People understand that the Emperor has no clothes,

765
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: true or falls?

766
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: Yes, and no, I would say, I think because Trump

767
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 3: keeps rolling things back so quickly. You know, it's always

768
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 3: on the cusp of doing something, and now there's a

769
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 3: nine a day repriet and now there's an exemption you

770
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 3: know for this product or that product or the others.

771
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 3: So I think it's left for people really confused, and

772
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 3: some of the things that I think would be most

773
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: hard hitting. It's not clear that it's making an impact yet,

774
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: but I do think that people see the mass chaos

775
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 3: and disorganization is being bad, and certainly the stock market

776
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 3: has suggested that. So a lot of people have lost

777
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 3: their fur. One ks are a substantial portion of it.

778
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 3: But then again that everybody has a qoro one k.

779
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: So I think there are still a lot of Trump

780
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: supporters out there that haven't been fully impacted by it,

781
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 3: but they will. It's only a matter of time.

782
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: But you don't need all the Trump supporters, you just

783
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: need some, right there are some Trumpers who will never

784
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: ever ever leave him. You know.

785
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 3: If I could use this as an example, I've been

786
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 3: going all around the state of Michigan and talking to

787
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 3: different stakeholders. And I went to southwest Michigan last week

788
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 3: and I talked to a group of farmers out there,

789
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 3: and many of them had their grants or their contracts

790
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 3: with the federal government terminated. Some of them were USAID contracts,

791
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 3: some of them were suppliers to the food banks, some

792
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 3: of them were with USDA, and there were many others.

793
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 3: And so I said to them, I go, what are

794
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 3: you going to do? I mean, you planted crops, you

795
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: purchase supplies, you hired workers, all in anticipation that the

796
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 3: government would keep their end of the deal. Because at

797
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 3: the end of the day, a lot of this is

798
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: just basic contract law. Like if this was a vendor.

799
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 3: If this was you know, a company that you did

800
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 3: business with and they just all of a sudden ghosted

801
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 3: you one day, it'd be pretty mad and you wouldn't

802
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: do business with them again, and you would probably sue

803
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 3: them in court.

804
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: But I had this farmer say to me.

805
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 3: He's like, well, yeah, this has been paused, but what's

806
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 3: to say that's not going to start up again? I said,

807
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 3: how did you How did you find out about it?

808
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 3: I go, did the Trump administration or somebody from us DA?

809
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 3: Did they call you? No?

810
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: Did they email you?

811
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 3: No? Was there any form of communication at all before

812
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 3: you went to the bank and you saw that you

813
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: didn't get paid? Like, did they even tell you about it?

814
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: And he said no.

815
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 3: I go, well, does that sound like a good fad

816
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 3: actor that's probably eventually going to start paying you again,

817
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 3: or does it seem like somebody who doesn't care at

818
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 3: all about the fact that you were literally on the

819
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: cusp of losing your seventh generation family farm and he

820
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 3: got kind of quiet after that. And you know, I

821
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 3: think it's coming to terms with the fact that somebody

822
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 3: that you supported, maybe you went to rallies to support him,

823
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 3: maybe you invested in a you know, make America Great

824
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 3: Again hat that was made in China. Now you get

825
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: to deal with the fact that this guy's not who

826
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 3: you thought he was. And I think it's hard for

827
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 3: some people to come to grips with that. But my

828
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 3: hope is that enough of those folks will say, yeah,

829
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 3: you know, this isn't what we signed up for. This

830
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 3: is not him keeping his end of the deal for me,

831
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 3: for my family, from my community, from my state, for

832
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 3: my country.

833
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 1: Dana Nassau, thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us.

834
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: Thank you for having.

835
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: Me no moment perfectly Jesse Cannon, Somali. Despite Trump's attempts

836
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 2: to fire many, many, many, many federal workers, along with

837
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 2: thoss A, judges blocked them from laying off ninety percent

838
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: of the CFPB.

839
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: This keeps happening, right, Trump keeps losing in court. You

840
00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: know why, because they're trying to do leave legal stuff.

841
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: That is why he keeps losing in court. If you

842
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: are Harvard or Columbia or any of those places. You

843
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 1: can see that this doesn't work, So just ignore them.

844
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: Just keep going fighting in court. Like I think about Maine, right,

845
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: the governor in Maine, Janet Miles. You'll remember she was

846
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: the one who was like, I'll see you in court. Well,

847
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: that governor, you know, she keeps winning in court too, right,

848
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: So don't fucking let this administration bully you. They keep losing.

849
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: It just keeps working out that way. None of this

850
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: is legal, or much of it is not legal. Just

851
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 1: keep fighting back. Do not let them do this stuff.

852
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: It's not legal and they won't get away with it.

853
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: So a little bit of what they're doing to the

854
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: federal government, these state governments can do back. That's it

855
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,

856
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make

857
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

858
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

859
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.