Speaker 1: When the vision itself came to me was the culmination
Speaker 1: of an accumulation of learnings over my lifetime. You might say,
Speaker 1: at first, I thought, why am I being given this vision?
Speaker 1: Surely there are others more worthy of being burdened with
Speaker 1: the gift of child honoring as a philosophy. I'm Chris Garcia,
Speaker 1: and this is Finding Raffie, a ten part series from
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio and Fatherly in partnership with The Rococo
Speaker 1: Punch about the life, philosophy, and the work of Raffie,
Speaker 1: the man behind the music. One morning in Raphie says
Speaker 1: he woke up from a deep sleep with a vision
Speaker 1: two words suspended in mid air, char honoring. I knew
Speaker 1: in that luminous moment that I was being given something
Speaker 1: that would be the work of the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: I knew in that moment that it was a unique
Speaker 1: social change revolution that connects personal, culture and planet, an
Speaker 1: integrated philosophy for restoring communities and restoring the earth. Everything
Speaker 1: in Ralphie's mind seems to come down to child honoring.
Speaker 1: It came up over and over again in our conversations. Basically,
Speaker 1: it's his philosophy for saving the planet by putting children first.
Speaker 1: It eventually became a book and an online course, and
Speaker 1: Ralphie was selling it to me pretty hard and one
Speaker 1: way you can deepen your connection with the beautiful words
Speaker 1: that you might read and wonder how might I practice
Speaker 1: this in my own family, as you would take the
Speaker 1: online course in child hon ring that my Raffie Foundation
Speaker 1: offers for a very reasonable price. On my dad, I
Speaker 1: took the bait. Raphie's philosophy covers a lot. He asked
Speaker 1: us to consider so many different concepts with children in mind,
Speaker 1: from the way we grow our food to how we
Speaker 1: measure economic progress. He paints a picture of a utopian
Speaker 1: world full of farmers, markets, parents volunteering with their kids,
Speaker 1: and pesticide free parks. I found it hard to know
Speaker 1: where I'm supposed to step in, both as a person
Speaker 1: and as a parent. See and reading it, it made
Speaker 1: me think a lot about privilege, because it's there's so
Speaker 1: much pressure on parents to make sure they're doing everything
Speaker 1: just perfectly, reading the right books, having the right toys.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's about survival
Speaker 1: and love, and not everyone has the means to curate
Speaker 1: the perfect bubble for their child. There's no such thing
Speaker 1: as perfect parenting. So let's just put that out of
Speaker 1: our minds. All parents, in their various situations, sum are
Speaker 1: having a tough time month after month making ends meet.
Speaker 1: You know. Everybody's got different pressures, different challenges, and also
Speaker 1: different rewards, you know, but we're all doing our best.
Speaker 1: And the point of conscious parenting is to be conscious
Speaker 1: of how we are parenting, how we were parented, what
Speaker 1: that instilled in us that might be passed on to
Speaker 1: our children. So it's a call to conscious living. Raphae's
Speaker 1: child honoring vision might sound a little esoteric, but I
Speaker 1: have to give the guy credit. He knows when and
Speaker 1: who to ask for help. He called up the top
Speaker 1: thinkers and environmental health education, business, in psychology, you name it,
Speaker 1: to test his ideas and shape his philosophy. I would
Speaker 1: like to think that before I met Rafiel, I was
Speaker 1: doing child honoring work. This is Dr Sharna Olfman, a
Speaker 1: Canadian expat living in Pittsburgh. She co wrote Raphael's Child
Speaker 1: Honoring book and happens to be a leading expert in
Speaker 1: developmental psychology. One of the many reasons I'm excited to
Speaker 1: talk to you um today is because you're an expert
Speaker 1: in all of this and I am a sponge that
Speaker 1: wants to soak in all this knowledge with you. Well,
Speaker 1: I want to be really clear that the child honoring
Speaker 1: philosophy is Raphael's philosophy, but we're part of this community.
Speaker 1: The solutions require the work and the ideas of people
Speaker 1: in many, many different professions. In her book series called
Speaker 1: Childhood in America, Sharna writes about some controversial educational reforms
Speaker 1: that she believed were harming our children, and Raffie was
Speaker 1: all about it. What were you trying to communicate to
Speaker 1: the world at that time? There were kind of a
Speaker 1: confluence events that led to the creation of that book,
Speaker 1: So maybe it would help to unpack that a little bit.
Speaker 1: If you were in preschool in the nineties, you most
Speaker 1: likely spent your days playing with ghak and sitting on
Speaker 1: a carpet square singing Barney songs. It was pretty chill.
Speaker 1: Playtime was the popular curriculum. Then flash forwards two thousand
Speaker 1: and two, Former President George W. Bush had just passed
Speaker 1: the highly criticized No Child Left Behind Act, and suddenly
Speaker 1: schools became very test driven, meaning preschool kids spent more
Speaker 1: time sitting at their desk taking tests than they did
Speaker 1: outside learning how to play. As a clinical psychologist, I
Speaker 1: was aware of this very big up surge in the
Speaker 1: number of children who are being diagnosed with attention deficit
Speaker 1: disorder and who are also being prescribed stimulants. So there
Speaker 1: were like one in ten kids being prescribed riddle in
Speaker 1: there are these kind of formal preschool settings, and also
Speaker 1: there was this uptick in play getting translated to screen time.
Speaker 1: At the time, my son had just lost a person
Speaker 1: that was very, very important to him, and it was
Speaker 1: a very very traumatic event for my son. So I'm
Speaker 1: looking at all of these different trends and I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about my child, and I'm thinking that these preschool settings
Speaker 1: don't feel right for him. This was how I felt
Speaker 1: as a parent, but it is also how I felt
Speaker 1: as a developmental psychologist. If you take a bunch of
Speaker 1: kids and you sit them at desks when they're meant
Speaker 1: to be playing creatively, and then you know they spend
Speaker 1: their leisure time in front of screens, it's going to
Speaker 1: create some developmental issues. I look back and I think
Speaker 1: about my childhood and I was a very energetic boy
Speaker 1: that sat in a desk in a Catholic school all
Speaker 1: day and then watched TV at night, and I think
Speaker 1: my teachers and then my parents thought that I was
Speaker 1: just a bad student or incapable of learning. I ended
Speaker 1: up going to UC Berkeley, one of the best colleges
Speaker 1: in the world, but I stumbled out of the gates
Speaker 1: because I don't think I was meant to sit in
Speaker 1: a chair and then watch The Simpsons all night. Afterwards,
Speaker 1: in my own head, I almost saw myself as a
Speaker 1: bad student, even though I wasn't, because I just couldn't
Speaker 1: participate in that environment absolutely, And then those labels risks
Speaker 1: sort of becoming self fulfilling prophecies. You know. The the
Speaker 1: issue isn't that you can't get there from a lesson
Speaker 1: optimal beginning, but why make it so hard? Um? Should
Speaker 1: I be paying you for this session? And is this
Speaker 1: become a therapy session? Now? I feel like I feel
Speaker 1: so much. I'm like, you're right, and you know it
Speaker 1: wasn't my fault and if only that would have happened,
Speaker 1: I figured it out, But you know I shouldn't. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't have had to. Um. Can you tell me about
Speaker 1: the first time you met Raffie? So you know, Raffie
Speaker 1: heard about my work and Ralphie was kind enough to
Speaker 1: fly out to Pittsburgh and he uh met me at
Speaker 1: my home. At the time, Sharna's kids were six and
Speaker 1: nine years old, prime Raffie years. So when we finished
Speaker 1: our meeting, Raffie grabbed a banana from my kitchen, put
Speaker 1: it to his ear and his mouth like he was
Speaker 1: holding a banana phone from just like the cover art
Speaker 1: on his famous Banana Phone album, and he greeted the
Speaker 1: kids and he talked to them through the banana. It
Speaker 1: was just a really wonderful a first meeting, and my
Speaker 1: kids just were enthralled. Ring ring ring, ring, ring ring ring.
Speaker 1: Banana phone Ying Yang Yin Yang Yin Yang ying yan fool.
Speaker 1: It's a real live mama and Papa phone, a brother
Speaker 1: and sister and a doga phone, a grandpa phone, and
Speaker 1: a Granma phone to oh yeah, my cell learn Ralph
Speaker 1: he saw something in Sharna's work that he'd been trying
Speaker 1: to articulate for the last several years. How we treat
Speaker 1: our children is the key to building a sustainable world.
Speaker 1: A few months after their first meeting, Ralfie flies Sharna,
Speaker 1: her husband Dan, and their two young children out to
Speaker 1: his home on a small island off the coast of Vancouver,
Speaker 1: and I like to say we were living the child
Speaker 1: honoring life. You know, it really was a beautiful, idyllic
Speaker 1: two weeks. Main Island is this beautiful island off the
Speaker 1: coast of British Columbia, surrounded by the Pacific Ocean. We
Speaker 1: timed the visit to coincide with this amazing nature camp
Speaker 1: that was taking place that my kids were able to
Speaker 1: participate in. And it was such a magical camp, wooded, beautiful,
Speaker 1: and the kids spent all day every day in nature,
Speaker 1: tramping around the woods, splashing around in the ocean, collecting shells,
Speaker 1: and putting on little plays, et cetera. Evenings, he would
Speaker 1: often join us for dinner and we would spend hours
Speaker 1: talking about how how to make the world a better
Speaker 1: place for children. I think that Ralphie took me more
Speaker 1: deeply into my awareness of you know, issues like global
Speaker 1: warming and soil health, etcetera. Yeah, it was absolutely a
Speaker 1: pivotal experience for me, and it was just a wonderful
Speaker 1: way to kind of launch the work that we did
Speaker 1: together over the course of the next couple of years
Speaker 1: bringing the book to fruition. What would you say is
Speaker 1: was the vision or the goal for this book. So
Speaker 1: the Child Honoring Philosophy is both profound and elegant, I
Speaker 1: would say, in its simplicity. But I would say that
Speaker 1: probably the first impulse for Rafie in creating The Child
Speaker 1: Honoring Philosophy was his concern about the health the physical planet.
Speaker 1: You know, his concern about global warming, his concern about water, air, soil.
Speaker 1: You know, at the core, we're literally killing our children's home,
Speaker 1: We're killing their planet. And if we want to turn
Speaker 1: this ship around and we want to create a healthy
Speaker 1: planet and a healthy world, not in which children can survive,
Speaker 1: but in which they can fully thrive and fully self actualize,
Speaker 1: then all of us need to lead with the question
Speaker 1: is what I'm doing, what I'm saying, how I'm acting
Speaker 1: in the best interests of the young child. So I
Speaker 1: would like to say that the child Honoring Philosophy could
Speaker 1: also be thought of as a value. When we lead
Speaker 1: with that value, then we create a world that is
Speaker 1: fit for children. When we don't, we end up with
Speaker 1: the dying planet and kids who are eating junk food
Speaker 1: and getting sick and not thriving and feeling like they
Speaker 1: can't find a place for themselves in the world. It's
Speaker 1: putting kids first and their well being, and by doing that,
Speaker 1: everything will fall in place exactly. So sometimes we get
Speaker 1: like blinders even when we're working. Oh, it's all about
Speaker 1: the soil health, it's all about legislation, it's all about education,
Speaker 1: it's all about mental health. Now, it's all about all
Speaker 1: of these things because they all are integrated and they're
Speaker 1: all interdependent. And that's the child honoring philosophy, understanding that
Speaker 1: it's not just one issue, but it's all of the above.
Speaker 1: I mean it it's where, Yeah, I'm just taking a
Speaker 1: moment to absorb all this. It's a lot. If I
Speaker 1: sound hesitant, it's not that I disagree with the one
Speaker 1: aspect of this philosophy or what it hopes to do,
Speaker 1: but like, how am I supposed to meet a tiny
Speaker 1: humans most basic needs twenty four hours a day while
Speaker 1: also considering how my every action impacts the world she's inheriting.
Speaker 1: I mean, from my vantage point, it's a lot for
Speaker 1: a new parent to take in because you're talking about
Speaker 1: humongous systemic issues. Because I have to admit, doctor, I
Speaker 1: started when we knew we were having a child. I
Speaker 1: jumped in. I was I was reading so much and
Speaker 1: then you have a child, and you become a zombie
Speaker 1: for about three months, and then you crawl out. You
Speaker 1: you come out of the thaw, and then you no
Speaker 1: longer have time to read or understand anything. How do
Speaker 1: I take this in? Where do I step in? Help
Speaker 1: me out here? That's a really really good question. Ironically,
Speaker 1: in the effort to curate that perfect bubble, sometimes parents
Speaker 1: are moving their kids away from what they need most.
Speaker 1: We want children's create civity to come from within, like
Speaker 1: go on a nature trail. It's free, there's nothing better,
Speaker 1: you know. But at the end of the day, what
Speaker 1: your child needs from you is your love and your time,
Speaker 1: and everything else is optional. I love allowing that space
Speaker 1: for leniency because so many of his philosophies are incredible
Speaker 1: in theory, but in practical application are they even possible? Right? So,
Speaker 1: I think the idea is they're aspirational, but we do
Speaker 1: what is healthiest for the family system. I don't know
Speaker 1: if we have a system. It's more of a putting
Speaker 1: out fires than saving the world kind of thing. Honestly,
Speaker 1: we're just trying to make it to bedtime. And my
Speaker 1: parents didn't have much of a system either. As I've
Speaker 1: said before, or they both had difficult upbringings, lived under
Speaker 1: an oppressive regime, and as immigrants moved to an unfamiliar
Speaker 1: country where they didn't speak the language or have much support.
Speaker 1: One of the unintended consequences that affected how they raised
Speaker 1: me was anxiety. For example, my parents food insecurity growing
Speaker 1: up poor in Cuba translated to over feeding me and
Speaker 1: rushing through meal times. I still eat like the secret
Speaker 1: police is going to take my plate away. And though
Speaker 1: I've been fortunate enough to not have to flee my homeland,
Speaker 1: I don't want to mirror my anxieties about the world
Speaker 1: directly onto Sunny. You know, while I have you here.
Speaker 1: Um I just something I think about a lot recently.
Speaker 1: I'm the first American born son of Cuban refugees, and
Speaker 1: um so one thing I think about a lot is
Speaker 1: inherited family trauma, generational trauma. As people talk about these days,
Speaker 1: how something that happened to, say, my great great grandpa,
Speaker 1: affects me today and how it may have affected my
Speaker 1: the rest of my family, either physically or emotionally or
Speaker 1: something like that. How do I avoid passing that trauma
Speaker 1: down to my daughter, to Sunny, I think a common
Speaker 1: mistake is for the pendulum to swing so far the
Speaker 1: other way, like, I'm not going to do it that
Speaker 1: way because that's you know, or I'm working from a
Speaker 1: place of fear, and so I'm going to do the
Speaker 1: diametric opposite, which is also not always the best way
Speaker 1: to go about it. So first is consciousness, so that
Speaker 1: we can think through our choices and how they affect
Speaker 1: us and what triggers us. And knowing that your daughter
Speaker 1: will carry less of that trauma and will have other
Speaker 1: opportunities because you are doing the work of trying to understand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone in my family's ever had
Speaker 1: almost the privilege to think about this. You know, they've
Speaker 1: they've just been trying to survive and then, um, you
Speaker 1: know these cycles they're vicious and they just almost automatically
Speaker 1: happen unless you take a moment to acknowledge it, become aware. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. And you know, a conversation
Speaker 1: that Raphie and I had on more than one occasion was,
Speaker 1: you know the difference between being child centered and always
Speaker 1: putting child at the center of everything. You want to
Speaker 1: give your children to the best of your ability with
Speaker 1: the means at hand, living in this very imperfect world
Speaker 1: that we live in the best opportunity to meet their
Speaker 1: developmental needs. But at the same time, you don't want
Speaker 1: to raise a child who feels that they are at
Speaker 1: the center of the universe and only their needs matter.
Speaker 1: So part of being a child honoring parent is honoring
Speaker 1: yourself and honoring your needs and honoring your wellness so
Speaker 1: that children also grow up to understand that they are
Speaker 1: part of a family system. Well, dr, this has been
Speaker 1: so helpful. Um, should we just pencil in one of
Speaker 1: these for next week as well? And then uh, we
Speaker 1: could just make this a regular thing because it's just
Speaker 1: been so lovely and h yeah, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for talking to me today. You're very very welcome, and
Speaker 1: I can see with great clarity that you are a
Speaker 1: child honoring parent and that Sonny is very lucky to
Speaker 1: have you as a father. And it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Um speaking with you. Has developing the child honoring philosophy
Speaker 1: been healing to you in a similar way, like do
Speaker 1: you feel like it allows you to kind of break
Speaker 1: the cycle of past traumas or hell part of you? Well,
Speaker 1: I imagine it has been that way for me. I
Speaker 1: think what child honoring has also given me is a
Speaker 1: window into the truth of how we live and how
Speaker 1: we become our true selves. It's like when you discover,
Speaker 1: you know, the foundational experience of what it feels to
Speaker 1: be human as being in those early years. Well, you
Speaker 1: want to shout it from the rooftops. You want to say, Hey,
Speaker 1: it's not just the university degree. In fact, more important,
Speaker 1: it's how we raise these impressionable, vulnerable, susceptible people. We
Speaker 1: just want to co create a world that doesn't inflict
Speaker 1: so much trauma. Honest children, that's what we want. We
Speaker 1: want to create a child honoring world, and that is
Speaker 1: my deepest passion. Next time, on Finding Raffie, we dive
Speaker 1: into how one family made sure their daughter was always
Speaker 1: seen and heard for who she really was. Their parenting
Speaker 1: journey is Raffie's philosophy come to life, radical, disruptive, and
Speaker 1: child rearing like few in the West have experienced. This
Speaker 1: is what child honoring really looks like. But does it work?
Speaker 1: My parents did this crazy thing. They sacrifice so much financially, emotionally, whatever,
Speaker 1: They made this amazing thing, and oh boy, I better
Speaker 1: turn out well I'm the one. As an example of
Speaker 1: look I turned out like this, so that means it works.
Speaker 1: Finding Raffie is a production of My Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Fatherly in partnership with Rococo Punch. It's produced by Catherine Findalosa,
Speaker 1: Meredith Hanig, and James Trout. Production assistance from Charlotte Livingston.
Speaker 1: Alex French is our story consultant. Our senior producer is
Speaker 1: Andrea swahe Emily Forman is our editor. Fact checking by
Speaker 1: Andrea Lopez Crusado. Raphae's music is courtesy of Troubadour Music
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Kim Layton at Troubadour. Our executive producers
Speaker 1: are Jessica Albert and John parad at Rococo Punch, Ty Trimble,
Speaker 1: Mike Rothman and Jeff Eisenman at Fatherly and Me Chris
Speaker 1: Garcia thank you for listening.