WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.480 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.199 you know. This is a compiletion episode. So every episode 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:09.440 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.280 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.800 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:17.759 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:19.959 there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.720 can make your own decisions. You crack open a doctor pepper. 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.040 You know it'll only make you more thirsty in the 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.160 long run, but you need some liquid in your mouth, 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.400 and you're saving your remaining fifteen gallons for a quick shower. 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.400 The U haul is finally almost packed up. You may 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.760 be able to make it down to San Francisco in time. 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.280 Living in Redwood Valley has been nice the last few years. 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.400 It's a beautiful place, but in August of two, the 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:47.120 drought became too much. Late last year, California's new far 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.800 right governor lifted all water restrictions on farmers. This sparked 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.479 a new statewide race to use what water was available 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.880 before it ran out. Lake Mendesino was already low at 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:58.800 the beginning of the year and for the first time 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.040 in your memory. It is now completely empty. San Francisco 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:04.240 isn't doing great either, but it's much better off than 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.880 where you live. The Russian River Watershed relies almost entirely 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.160 on rainfall and is isolated from state and federal aqueducts. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.520 After the governor lifted water restrictions, new almond and pot 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.039 farms started sucking up ground water, and by the end 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.240 of the summer they started pumping from the river to 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.920 feed their thirsty crops. By mid July, your town implemented 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.120 a twenty five gallon limit per person per day. That's 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:28.039 about as much water as you go through during a 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.399 five minute shower. The first thing you sacrificed was your garden. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.440 Then you stopped flushing after you peid. These tweaks added up, though, 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.120 and without water, the lifestyle you'd love to just stopped 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.240 being possible. Your brother in San Francisco offered to let 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.360 you move in with him. You weren't a fan of 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.120 the big city, but at least you'd be able to 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.200 shower again. And so you find yourself sipping an empty 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.640 soda can and loading up your last few boxes into 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.000 the U haul. You give your brother a quick call, 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.280 saying you're all packed up and about to head out. 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.559 He sounds worried and mentioned something about his school letting 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.360 new teachers go to to budget cuts. You can't really 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.880 afford to think about that. Now. You just need to leave, 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.520 since you're all sweaty from loading the U hall the 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.840 last few days. You decided to hop into the shower 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.560 one last time. You knew it wouldn't last long, but 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.160 you still seem surprised when the water turned off after 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.119 what felt like only two minutes. You quickly dry off 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.480 and grab some clean clothes from your backpack and throw 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:21.799 your damp towel into the passenger seat of the truck. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.200 You say goodbye to your home of ten years and 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:27.079 to your old succulent plants, and begin the three hour 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:35.360 drive down to San Francisco. Water scarcity is a problem 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.040 you're probably already familiar with, especially if you live in 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.760 the Southwest. California has dealt with particularly brutal droughts over 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.800 the last twenty years, and the Golden States water problems 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.440 could be about to get much much worse, because in 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.360 just a few days, California might find itself helmed by 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.840 a far right governor with a near religious hatred of 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:57.240 water conservation. Electoral politics are not generally a big focus 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.399 on this show, but what's going on in the state 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.359 of California could have serious implications for many people, including 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.240 those outside the West Coast. The ongoing recall campaign against 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.200 Governor Gavin Newsom started out in June of twenty with 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.800 Republican politicians and activists unhappy with Newsom's handling of the pandemic. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.880 Newsom's opposition to President Trump's cracked down on undocumented immigrants 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.960 also played a role. This is actually the fifth recall 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.840 attempt against Newsom since he took office in twenty nineteen, 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.919 but it's the first one to gain traction. It's fueled 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.280 in part by Newsom's own hypocrisy and hubris. On November six, 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.880 the recall effort gained court approval for a signature gathering extension, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.000 and later that night, Governor Newsom went to a birthday 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.000 party for a Sacramento lobbyist and friend at French Laundry, 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.880 a pricing Napa Valley restaurant. Soon after, photo surface of 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.320 Newsom mingling massless at the packed restaurant. He faced heavy 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:53.720 criticism and apologized, but the damage was done. Republicans latched 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.360 onto this as an opportunity to finally push the recall 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.520 effort through. The recall petition, which had only fifty five 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.360 thousand of five signatures on the day of the dinner, 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.920 had nearly half a million a month after the November 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:09.760 sixth incident. California's recall process is probably the least democratic 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.480 one in the United States. Gathering signatures to authorize a 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.520 recall election is a pretty standard thing, but California has 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.440 among the lowest signature requirements and states that allow for 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.400 the recall of an official. Most states require that the 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.960 recall campaign must gather signatures equal to of the votes 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.599 cast in the last election. California requires just twelve percent 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.520 for executive officials. The l A Times notes quote that 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.600 might have been a high bar in nineteen eleven when 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.400 the population was scattered across the seven hundred and seventy 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.560 mile length of the state, But is it too low 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.520 in one when petitions for ballot measures are gathered and 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.400 moss by paid staff and parking lots. And That's not 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:51.039 the only questionable aspect of California's recall process. On recall 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.520 election day, voters will face two questions on the ballot, first, 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.400 yes or no on whether to recall Governor Gavin Newsom 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.040 from office. Second, and this one is technically option And 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.159 if so, who among the forty six candidates do you 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.320 want to take his place? The first question is decided 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.200 by a simple majority, just like other ballot measures, but 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.600 when it comes to the second question, the percentage requirements change. 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.880 The replacement candidate doesn't need more than fifty percent to win, 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:18.680 so if more than fifty percent of the voters say 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.039 yes on the recall question, Governor Newsom must step down, 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.880 even if he has more overall support than any other 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.960 individual challenger on the ballot. The replacement question is determined 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.080 by who gets the most votes among the challengers on 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.200 the ballot, which Newsom cannot be on. So forty nine 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.680 point nine percent of the voters can back Mr Newsom, 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:38.600 and he can still lose to someone who is supported 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.440 by only, say, twenty percent of the electorate, or even 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:46.000 a smaller fraction. For other California elections, including special elections 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.719 triggered by the death or resignation of an official, a 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.760 candidate cannot win without the support of a majority of voters. 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.960 If a candidate doesn't win over fifty percent outright then 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.680 the top to compete in a runoff election, not the 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.800 case for California's recall process. Organizers of the recall campaign 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.760 submitted two point one million signatures by the March seventeenth 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.880 filing deadline. One million, seven hundred nineteen thousand, nine hundred 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.680 signatures were ultimately determined to have been valid, which was 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.200 enough to trigger the recall. The deadline for casting your 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.479 vote is September fourteenth. If the recall succeeds, the new 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.600 governor would be in office for the remainder of mister 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:24.440 Newsom's term through January second, twenty twenty three, and that 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.440 leaves a lot of time for Executive Fuccory, especially considering 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.840 the new front runner. Far right radio talk show host 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.600 and frequent Fox guest Larry Elder, has emerged as the 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.279 likely candidate to replace Newsom in the event the recall 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.480 goes through. Elder, who was sixty nine, jumped into the 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.000 race relatively late in the game during mid July. At 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.720 that time, it was more of a toss up between 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.479 Republican candidates Kevin Falconer, a former San Diego mayre, and 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.360 businessman John Cox, who lost badly to Newsom. In the 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:57.080 twenty eighteen gubernatorial election, Assemblyman Kevin Kiley and former athlete 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.800 in media personality Caton Jinner pulled less well, but as 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.560 Larry Elder entered the race, he almost immediately became the 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.120 front runner in polls and raised lots of money from 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.359 small donors. In the three weeks after he announced his campaign, 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.000 he raised nearly four and a half million dollars, according 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:16.280 to fundraising disclosures. That's more than every other Republican challenger, 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.840 Sand's multi millionaire businessman John Cox, who's largely funding his 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.000 own campaign. Elder has been a central figurehead of the 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.520 right wing radio talk show scene since the nineties, but 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.480 has always been hesitant to run for public office, deeming 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:32.480 the state of California ungovernable due to its liberal supermajority. 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.679 But after talking with his friend and mentor Dennis Praeger 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.240 of the neo fascist propaganda outlet Praeger You, he figured 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.520 it might be worth a shot, and has expressed desire 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:43.960 to use the emergency powers of the governor to push 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.360 the state right words. Elder was born in Los Angeles, 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.920 but moved to Cleveland to attend law school and opened 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.280 his own firm in nineteen eighty. Elder's career began as 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.400 a bit of an accident. He'd been invited on a 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.120 Cleveland station as a guest. He did so well on 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.520 air that when the regular host went on accation the 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.680 following week, the program director asked Elder to fill in. 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.400 Soon enough, Elder had his own weekly time slot on 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.640 the Cleveland station. In the early nineties, a guest host 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:13.800 from Los Angeles, Dennis Prager, visited Cleveland. Elder quickly impressed 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.080 Praeger with his on air wit and talent, coupled with 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:20.000 the uniqueness of a black man openly expressing extreme conservative views. 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.040 Praeger persuaded his home station KBC in Los Angeles to 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.160 give Elder a shot. Quoting the l A Times, Elder 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.440 returned to his hometown in nine four, two years after 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.960 the civil unrest following the acquittal of the officers who 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.280 beat Rodney King and in the midst of the O. J. 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.640 Simpson murder case. The program director at rival KFI, David G. Hall, 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:43.160 felt KBC made a creative move bringing on this guy 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.640 from South Central who swung the other way on race. 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.480 Almost from the beginning. The self proclaimed sage from South 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.240 Central whipped up a fewer. He mixed soundbites from Representative 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.440 Maxine Waters with a recording of a barking dog. He said, 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.720 blacks exaggerate the significance of racism, while women did the 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.240 same in regards to sexism. For nearly four years, Elder 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.280 has slapped many members of his own race in the 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.960 face on radio, belittling them as whiners or losers, holding 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.320 himself up as a model of African American excellence. He's 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:14.800 become a darling of white listeners, who seemed to almost 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.720 gush when they telephone him on k ABC Talk radio. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.200 They are astonished to find a black man who not 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.960 only isn't going to chastise them, but who also often 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.440 agreed with them, a black man who declared that race 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.920 was no longer a significant factor in American society. Elder 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.640 also doesn't believe that racial profiling exists. This is despite 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.199 telling The Times editorial Board that police pulled him over 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.800 between seventy five and a hundred times the first year 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:43.240 he had his driver's license. Elder's regressive, provocative content angered 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.720 Mine Angelinos and black citizens of California led a boycott 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.439 of advertisers on the show. It worked, and by the 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.640 late nineties the show had begun losing millions in AD revenue, 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.800 But thanks to syndication, changing networks, podcasts, and TV appearances, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.120 Elder has been able to remain a central figure of 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.120 the right wing cont and sphere. He most recently starred 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.040 in a video series for far right propaganda organization and 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.400 literal cult, The Epoch Times. According to Elder's campaign, the 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.840 Central recall issues, He's focusing on our rampant crime, rising homelessness, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.840 out of control costs of living, water shortages, disastrous wildfires, 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.680 rolling brown outs, and repressive COVID restrictions. For this show, 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:23.880 we'll be focusing on the last three as they relate 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.240 to the rapidly shifting and hostile climate. For the past 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.559 thirty years, Elder has been a classic conservative climate denier. 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:32.880 He had a whole section of his website devoted to 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:37.480 debunking the Gore bull warming myth. Like Al Gore bullshit 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.640 warming myth, Yeah, it's a bad pun. In a CNN 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.080 interview prior to the two thousand eight election, Elder called 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.440 global warming a false myth, while disparaging and making fun 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.040 of both John McCain and George W. Bush for discussing 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.559 global warming is a serious issue. However, more recently, Elder 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.679 has shifted his rhetoric around the climate. In an interview 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.840 last month, he expressed belief that some warming is taking place, 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.120 but by using old soft denialist talking points. Climate is 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.360 always changing. Of course, the climate is changing. The question 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:05.679 is what do we do about it? Do we deal 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.240 with the effects of it, or do we force feed 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.000 renewables based economy down the throats of people, jacking up 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.319 the price of energy a disproportionate pain for poor people. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.600 But of course there's climate change, and the climate is 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.480 getting warmer, and maybe about a degree or so in 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.680 the last several years, and it will likely continue. He adds, 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.880 what I don't believe in is climate change alarmism. He 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.520 also said that he was not sure whether climate change 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.760 is making wildfires worse. Quote fires have gotten worse because 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.800 the failure of this governor to engage in sensible fire suppression. 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:36.359 Elder also blames California's rising housing costs on environmental extremists 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.600 that jack up the cost of housing so that developers 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.600 have to wait and wait and get sued over and over. 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.560 Agains that finally, when the home is built it's way 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.120 more expensive than otherwise it would be without these environmental 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.880 rules and regulations. Despite the slight back pedaling on climate 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.720 for better media optics, his potential policies on the topic 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.280 are just as horrendous as one might assume. In a 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.920 recent video news conference, Elder declared that he would in 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.160 the war on oil and gas and the attack on 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.520 the logging industry, while also reducing regulation on fracking and 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.000 stopping California's growing efforts to expand wind and solar power, 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.600 which he calls not very efficient. Elder did not mention 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.760 climate change during his news conference. Water scarcity will be 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.920 an increasingly severe concern for California in the coming years. 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.320 Drought is already a major political talking point among voters 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.120 and politicians, and it creates another rift between city folk 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.160 and rural farmers. Farmers are having a harder time growing 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.360 crops and feel threatened by water rationing. They're frustrated by 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.280 the thought that the Democrats running cities will always prioritize 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.280 pumping extra water into population dense areas. Meanwhile, people in 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.360 cities are concerned they will be forced to cut back 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.200 on personal water use as almond farmers suck up tons 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.600 of water to feed their droops. Just building more dams 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.280 and water catchment systems or aquifers may seem like a 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.360 solution and have done property. Some of those things might help, 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.640 but they can't make up for a lack of rainfall 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.200 and snow melt. Relying on river water has its own problems. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.880 Pulling too much from fresh water that flows through rivers 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.280 allows for extra salt water to intrude from the bay, 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.319 and ocean salinity in the water negatively impacts local ecosystems 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.760 and dirties what is supposed to be a freshwater source. 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:12.120 Drought is simultaneously pushing migratory fish species like chinook salmon 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.720 and steelhead trout closer to the brink of extinction. Large 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.240 numbers of fish are dying off because the rivers they 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.240 rely on as spawning habitats are too warm or too low. 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.400 Anxiety around water, droughts, and crops as among the issues 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.240 driving some people to vote yes on the recall. A 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.199 poll conducted last July by the Public Policy Institute of 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.360 California found that residents sited drought and water supply as 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.160 their top environmental concern, with about twenty calling it their 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.199 chief concern. Which makes it pull well above the related 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:46.199 problems of wildfires, air pollution, and climate change. Republican politicians 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.760 have been using anxiety around drought to drum up support 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.040 for the recall by blaming the current situation on Newsom. 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.559 The original recall petition against Newsom from early warned that 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.720 the governor quote seeks to impose additional burdens on our state, 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:03.240 including rationing our water use. Last April, Governor Newsom did 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:07.640 declare a drought emergency into northwest California counties. The order 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.480 allowed state officials to restrict the amount of water diverted 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.560 from the Russian River and authorized the relocation of fish 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.560 stranded in drying puddles. The local county government asked residents 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.400 to use no more than fifty gallons per day per person, 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.880 but Newsom himself hasn't mandated water rationing for individual consumers, 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.320 though he has asked Californians to voluntarily cut consumption by 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.520 fifteen percent and has suggested that statewide restrictions could be 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.240 on the table if conditions worsened. Heading into the fall, 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.280 Newsom in the Department of Water Resources as a whole 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:41.000 do have ideas in mind for tackling this issue. Last year, 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:45.120 Newsom authorized an eleven billion dollar water infrastructure project building 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.080 a single thirty mile tunnel under the Sacramento, San Joaque 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.480 and River Delta. The project, which has been discussed for years, 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.800 is being pushed forward in hopes that it will protect 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.240 the Delta's existing wetland ecosystem and supply enough fresh clean 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.520 water to be diverted south for the rest of the state. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.000 But the tunnel concept has faced opposition both locally and 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.680 from conservation minded folks. Some residents in the Delta regency 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.760 it is just a water grab to meet the demands 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.000 of southern California and the agriculture industry while the needs 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.600 of those up north are being ignored. Ecologically focused critics 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.200 say it could still increase salinity in the Delta and 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.480 result in notable harm for the ecosystem. Newsom has more 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.640 recently discussed other action and legislation to help mitigate the 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:29.000 continued drought, quoting the San Francisco Chronicle. In July, the 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.600 governor signed a state budget that includes five point one 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.320 billion dollars over four years for new water infrastructure and 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.840 drought preparation projects, including money to repair delivery canals help 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:42.280 farmers irrigrate crops more efficiently in start water recycling projects. Still, 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.160 Newsom's recent actions have done little to quell anger among 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.320 many farmers, who say the state's failure to plan for 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:49.720 another major drought just a few years after it exited 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:51.880 the last one has put them on the brink of ruin. 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.760 Ernest Buddy Mendez, a lifelong farmer in Fresno County and 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.960 Republican county supervisor, said he was forced to let hundreds 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.800 of acres where he used to o cotton and wheat 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.080 dry up this year after his allotment of river water 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.360 was slashed to zero. He's relying on groundwater pumped from 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.480 wells to keep his grove of almond trees alive. Mendez 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.640 said he hasn't decided whom to support as a replacement candidate, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.160 and the recall just that he will vote Hell Yeah 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.280 to remove Newsom. Let's face at Newsom. Damn is a 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.320 four letter word, Mendez said, we haven't done anything in 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.320 twenty years about building storage. California already does have one 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.680 of the most extensive damn systems in the country, with 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.440 nearly fifteen hundred reservoirs. Building new on river dams would 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:35.160 cost billions of dollars if such efforts even survive legal challenges, 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.440 which are all but guaranteed amid the struggle to save 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.600 endangered fish species, there are not many areas left that 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:42.880 would make sense or be sustainable to build a new 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.680 large reservoir. One other, more cost effective solution could be 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.160 to store more water collected during wet years and underground aquifers. 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.440 One of the solutions to this problem is the same 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.040 as the solution to a number of other climate related problems, 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.160 which is that we simply have to cut the amount 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.000 of resources we're consuming, whether that means reducing our inner 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.760 ge use or cutting down on wasteful water use. You 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.520 can only build so many dams. The trend of California 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.600 farmers growing thirstier crops has made an existing problem much worse. Today, 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.119 the state produces three times as many acres of almonds 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.160 as it did twenty five years ago. With California most 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.159 likely entering a third straight year of disappointing rainfall and 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.480 snow melt, anxiety around drought and increased severity of water 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.120 restrictions won't get any better, And if the Lenina weather 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.399 pattern hits the West coast as it's poised to That 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.600 would mean the western US will have a drier and 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.439 hotter winter than average. Last August, water regulators made an 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.320 unprecedented move to begin cracking down on water use in 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:42.719 the sprawling Sacramento River in San Joaquin River watersheds, ordering farmers, 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.119 water districts, and other landowners, including the City of San Francisco, 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.400 to stop drawing water from the basins of the river 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.200 or face penalties of up to ten thousand dollars a day. 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.120 The city has enough water in its reservoirs to meet 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.439 demand for at least a couple of years, and stored 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.880 water is not affected by the state restrictions. Water agencies 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.720 also can seek an exemption from curtailments of human health 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.200 or safety or compromised. This does hit rural areas and 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.679 agriculture the hardest, because most cities have alternative supplies and 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.359 stored water to tap into. Looking to attract voters, Larry 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.960 Elder and other Republican challengers to Newsom have made it 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.639 a recurring point to say that farmers should not have 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.320 to endure such cuts, but they don't really give any 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.160 perspective solutions to prevent rationing. When water levels at reservoirs, lakes, 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.560 and wells are all plummeting. Larry Elder said drought is 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.359 not inevitable and said he supports building more reservoirs and 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.199 dams to store runoff, but he has also voice support 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:39.560 for permitting to salinization projects. The salinization devastates ocean life, 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.520 costs much more than other alternatives, and uses tons of energy. Also, 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.399 soon it will be made obsolete by increasing focus on 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:50.920 water recycling. Explaining to salonization quickly, ocean water is collected 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.240 and run through pipes to remove the largest solids, and 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.320 then pump through reverse osmosis filters to remove salt, while 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.760 fish and other creatures die upon being sucked in or 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:00.919 just from the force of the water flow. In a 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.280 report studying it is salinization plant in the early two thousands, 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:06.959 it was found that on average over a five year period, 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.040 nineteen point four billion larva were caught up at intakes 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.560 and about two point seven million fish, along with marine 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.720 mammals and sea turtles were killed by intake equipment. For 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.879 every gallon of drinking water to salinization leaves another gallon 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.159 of salty brine behind. The plants then just mix that 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.720 with two parts ocean water before pumping it back into 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.199 the ocean. These measures can negatively impact the environment for 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.440 this generation and generations to come. This type of resource 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.240 extract of thinking reflects how we got into the problem 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.520 in the first place. Battling over water allotments will only 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.720 get us so far when dealing with lackluster rainfall. What 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.880 can help is permaculture programs to help farmers learn ways 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.440 to irrigate more effectively and cultivate healthier soils that retain water. 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.560 Moving away from water heavy crops like almonds and towards 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.440 more sustainable and moisture efficient crops must also be done 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.200 if we want to stave off the worst effects. Putting 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.399 Larry Elder in office won't make it rain, but it 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.840 will put the state at least another year further behind 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.280 on taking the kind of action necessary to ensure California 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:16.359 remains habitable. The last few months in San Francisco have 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:20.000 been honestly better than you expected. Still hot and dry, 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.359 but now that you're in fall, the heat has become manageable. 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.920 In the Bay Area, at least, staying with your brother 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.200 has been actually really nice. The first few showers felt 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:34.119 like luxury, recently, he's had less of a good time. 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.640 He found out he was getting laid off right before 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:40.160 the school year started. He told me. Over fifteen thousand 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.119 other teachers have been fired as a part of the 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:47.000 governor's new reform schools program. The teacher's union is fighting it, 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.680 but your brother isn't too optimistic of regarding the outcome. 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:52.800 He's been looking for new work, and meanwhile, you've gotten 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.639 a shitty retail job to help with bills while you 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.919 decide on what hospitals you want to apply to. You 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.200 don't really miss your old MS job in Redwood Valley. 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.600 When you finally do get back into medical care, you 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.600 really prefer something in a hospital or clinic setting as 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:12.000 opposed to the extra stress inherent in emergency services. The 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.280 one chance you have had to use your medical skills 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.919 since moving was during the fires last September and October 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.359 back up north. They got really bad and hundreds of 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:26.160 thousands of people evacuated. Down South, some old activist friends 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.159 of yours from college made their own fire relief slash 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:31.840 Mutual Aid, set up to give out clothes and food 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:35.520 and to help people displaced by the fires. You haven't 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.640 talked much with your old college buddies in the past 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.760 few years, but upon hearing of the relief effort, you 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.560 happily offered up your skills to help with minor medical 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.439 issues in a smell medic tent they set up. It 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:48.480 was the first time you've helped with anything related to 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.360 protests organizing since you moved up to Redwood Valley ten 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:55.800 years ago. It was oddly refreshing. Politics hasn't been a 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:59.280 major part of your life since college. But speaking of politics, 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.280 mid term ms are finally this month. The past year 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:05.679 has felt like it stretched on forever. Your brother and 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.000 his union buddies have been doing canvassing for a few 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:12.399 progressive city council candidates that might actually get a shot 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:15.280 at getting in. You haven't had time to adjust to 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.720 San Francisco's local political scene, and honestly, you're not sure 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.680 if you really care to. You have been keeping half 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.800 an eye on the big state electoral races, though, which 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:27.520 feels kind of weird. You know, there's no way the 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:31.840 Republican governor will get reelected, not here in California. One 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.439 thing that has gotten you worried is the weekly anti 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:37.159 election fraud rallies that have been happening in l A. 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:41.120 Ever since October, the governor, surrounded by state troopers, has 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.199 made it down himself a few times to drop up 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:47.040 support from his fan base, and after the rallies, roving 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.480 gangs of far right extremists have gone around randomly attacking 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:54.080 homeless encampments. You heard that just last week after a 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:56.879 Sunday rally, three people had to be rushed to the 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:00.800 emergency room. It's now just a week before Action Day. 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:02.639 You're on the bus home from your job at the 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:05.320 vintage clothing store when you receive a message on signal 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:07.679 from one of your old college mutual aid buddies you 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:10.760 met up with again during the fire relief effort. The 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:14.840 message reads, hey, are you free on election Day? You 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:18.800 hadn't really thought about the day itself, You respond, maybe 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:23.080 nothing really planned yet. Your friend replies with a fat 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.480 wall of text. My affinity group and I are heading 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:29.440 down to l A on Tuesday. There's a big stop 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.520 the steel type rally happening, and where it is, lots 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:35.280 of proud boys are gonna show up. Comrades in l 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:37.560 A have put out some calls for support, so my 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:39.960 crew is going to go down and probably bring some 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:42.320 medical stuff. If you want to come, we got an 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:46.000 extra seat in the van. The thought of driving down 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:49.399 to Los Angeles to deal with proud boys doesn't excite you, 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:53.480 especially on an already stressful day. You think about it 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:56.560 for a few minutes. Images of the people maimed during 0:23:56.600 --> 0:24:00.680 and after the recent rallies floods your mind. Your buddies 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:03.800 know more about organizing and protests than you do, but 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:07.240 you have more medical training. You decide you'll do it. 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:11.879 You reply, I'll come with and pack some extra effects 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:20.639 and tourniquets. Among the issues of Republican recall, challengers have 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:24.640 raised to attack newsom, forced mismanagement has leomed large among 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:27.960 the recent complaints. This type of thing hearkens back to 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:30.840 Trump's old habit of blaming the governor and not raking 0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:35.520 enough leaves for California's fiery plight. On a larger scale, 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:37.199 this can be seen as part of an effort to 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:40.959 push all the blame of wildfires off of oil gas 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:43.879 and our transformation of the climate and onto a simple 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:47.400 lack of fire prevention measures. This narrative, of course, makes 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:51.560 the fossil fuel industry more happy. The thing is, all 0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:55.960 of these things are contributing factors for California's wildfire problem. 0:24:56.080 --> 0:25:00.000 Climate changed caused hotter temperatures and droughts makes fires easier 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:04.399 to catch and spread, and inadequate forest management, plus above 0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:08.240 ground power lines do the same. Just because there are 0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:11.840 bad faith attacks on Newsom doesn't mean there aren't actual 0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:15.560 failures he's made as governor, especially in relation to the forests. 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:21.040 An investigation from CAP Radio and California MPR published last 0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:25.240 June found out Newsom had grossly misrepresented and fled out 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:30.120 lied about his promises of new wildfire prevention efforts. Elements 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:32.240 of the piece were, of course, used by Larry Elder 0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:34.720 and the Right to push for support of the recall, 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:39.000 but the article itself is a very fine piece of journalism. 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:42.040 Back when Newsom first took office in January twenty nine, 0:25:42.440 --> 0:25:44.159 one of the first things he did was signed on 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:49.639 executive order overhauling how California handles wildfire prevention and forest management. 0:25:50.320 --> 0:25:54.640 The measures included removal of hazardous dead trees, vegetation clearing, 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:58.920 creation of fuel breaks and community defensible spaces, and creation 0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:03.359 of ingress and e dressed corridors. In January twenty a 0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:06.879 year after Newsom's initial announcement. The Governor's office claimed in 0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:10.040 a press release that under the Executive Orders Priority Projects, 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:15.000 ninety acres got treated with these fire prevention measures, but 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.600 according to data attained by CAP Radio and MPR, the 0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:21.919 actual number of acres treated by these priority projects was 0:26:22.000 --> 0:26:25.840 only eleven thousand, three hundred and ninety nine, just thirteen 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:29.440 percent of the number Newsome boasted about, quoting the piece 0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:33.480 by CAP Radio quote data shows cal Fire's fuel reduction 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:37.040 output dropped by half and twenty twenty two, levels below 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:40.760 Governor Jerry Brown's final year in office. At the same time, 0:26:41.119 --> 0:26:44.480 Newsom slashed roughly one hundred and fifty million dollars from 0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:49.520 cow Fire's wildfire prevention budget. In four point three million 0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:53.879 acres burned, the most in California's recorded history. That was 0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:56.960 more than double the previous record set in eighteen when 0:26:57.000 --> 0:27:00.359 the Camp fire destroyed the town of Paradise, ultimately killing 0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:03.760 eighty five people. A decade ago, cal Fire was treating 0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:08.600 a poultry seventeen thousand acres annually. That number has steadily climbed. 0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:11.600 Though Newso misrepresented the number of acres treated in his 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:15.840 priority projects. The overall amount of wildfire mitigation work carried 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:18.399 out by cal Fire spiked in his first year of 0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:23.040 office to sixty four thousand acres, but in fuel reduction 0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:26.520 totals plummeted to less than thirty two acres, a roughly 0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:32.280 fifty drop unquote. Multiple factors contributed to twenty twenties subpar 0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:36.480 fire prevention and reduction efforts in the year, with the 0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:39.440 large number of acres treated in recent history. The state 0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:43.000 budget allotted for three hundred and fifty five million dollars 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:47.680 for wildfire prevention and resource management, but after the COVID 0:27:47.720 --> 0:27:52.000 nineteen pandemic hit California in early Newsom cut the budget 0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:56.879 down to two hundred and three million. On top of 0:27:56.920 --> 0:28:00.639 the budget cuts, the fires themselves made prevention work more challenging. 0:28:01.119 --> 0:28:05.160 Twenties wildfire season started out early, which resulted in less 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:08.280 time to do prescribed burns and thinnings because the same 0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:11.679 teams that are tasked with prevention and fuel reduction often 0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:16.000 also serve as firefighters once the fires break out. As 0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:19.840 of MAE, cal Fire has treated over twenty three thod 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:23.359 acres throughout the year. This puts California on a trajectory 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:26.080 better than last year's total, but not as high as 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:31.080 the sixty thousand plus acres treated in Newsom has been 0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:34.400 trying to make up for his missteps and gross exaggerations. 0:28:35.200 --> 0:28:38.880 Quoting the Cap Radio report again, quote, Newsom is trying 0:28:38.880 --> 0:28:42.600 to play catch up with the state enjoying an unexpected surplus. 0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:48.160 Newsome proposed two billion in spending on wildfires and emergency preparedness, 0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:52.560 with one point two billion going towards wildfire resiliency in 0:28:52.600 --> 0:28:56.880 the upcoming budget. Experts say the increase in prevention spending 0:28:57.000 --> 0:28:59.880 could help the state get closer to a less day 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:04.320 DRISS wildfire season over time, but they also expressed concern 0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:08.000 over whether the state will sustain that commitment for years 0:29:08.000 --> 0:29:12.960 to come. Unquote. Revelations about Newsom's and cow fires lies 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:16.680 and lackluster force management were quickly jumped on by Larry 0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:19.840 Elder and other Republican challengers as an easy way to 0:29:19.840 --> 0:29:23.760 attack Newsom and to move the conversation about wildfires away 0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:26.920 from climate change. Elder has said he has quote unquote 0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:30.520 no idea why more prevention and reduction measures aren't being done, 0:29:31.240 --> 0:29:34.400 and when he becomes governor, he'll be a quote implementing 0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:36.800 these common sensical kinds of plans so that we can 0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:40.760 reduce the severity of these fires unquote. Elder has given 0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:44.360 no concrete plans on what measures he'll be shooting to implement, 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:47.400 or any indication on how much money will be directed 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:51.360 to prevent or fight fires on the noted budgets. Elder 0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:54.240 has said that the more recent spending on wind and 0:29:54.320 --> 0:29:58.000 solar power has left quote less money for removing trees 0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:00.880 and putting power lines underground, the kind of things that 0:30:00.920 --> 0:30:04.520 would make these fires less intense unquote, And he promises 0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:08.600 to drastically cut spending on renewables while also investing more 0:30:08.800 --> 0:30:12.760 in oil and gas. To be clear, Newsom's upcoming budget 0:30:12.840 --> 0:30:16.880 contains billions for both fire prevention, slash fuel reduction, and 0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:21.840 renewable energy such as wind and solar. Whoever ends up 0:30:21.840 --> 0:30:25.040 governing California is not only in charge of local politics. 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:29.120 Like governors at other states. What happens in California affects 0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:33.480 people across the country and even globally, whether that's wildfire 0:30:33.480 --> 0:30:37.120 smoke traveling across continents, or changes to supply chains and 0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:41.000 industry rippling across the world. California is, after all, the 0:30:41.040 --> 0:30:45.960 world's fifth largest economy. There are also political ramifications that 0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:48.800 could affect the States as a whole. If Elder gets 0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:52.520 in office, the Senate is currently a fifty fifty split 0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:56.720 between Republicans and Democrats, with Vice President Kamala Harris getting 0:30:56.760 --> 0:31:01.000 the tie breaking vote. One of California's senators is eighty 0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:05.480 eight year old Diane Feinstein, the oldest active Senator. If 0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:07.920 she dies in office or has to step down due 0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:11.240 to medical reasons before her term is over, the governor 0:31:11.280 --> 0:31:15.520 of California gets to appoint her replacement. If Elder appoints 0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:18.719 a Republican, then the Senate will be back under geop 0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:21.680 control and give it his connections to the far right 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:25.080 media sphere. The list of potentials that Elder could appoint 0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:29.680 is frightening. This is by no means inevitable even if 0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:33.280 Elder gets into office. If he does, Finstein does have 0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.960 the brief opportunity to step down and put a replacement 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:39.800 in before the new governor has sworn into office. However, 0:31:40.080 --> 0:31:42.960 Feinstein has said she has no plans of doing so. 0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.560 Reports of her declining health have become only more common 0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:50.120 in recent years, but like many politicians and judges, she's 0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:53.560 not keen on stepping aside, even to possibly help prevent 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.240 a disastrous outcome. Changes in the Senate are not required 0:31:57.280 --> 0:31:59.920 for horrible outcomes. In the wake of an even brief 0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:04.720 Elder governorship, his anti VAX sentiments and planned to open 0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:07.920 up the state and remove basically all COVID restrictions will 0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:11.719 result in hospitals being pushed to max capacity. Elder has 0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:14.760 said he has plans to appoint education officials similar to 0:32:14.800 --> 0:32:19.520 former Secretary Betsy Divas, and judicial appointees like Conservative Supreme 0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:23.719 Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Elder has stated his intention of 0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:27.320 declaring states of emergency and using executive orders to push 0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:31.880 through otherwise unpopular legislation. He has discussed plans to declare 0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:35.320 an education emergency in order to fire upwards of twenty 0:32:35.360 --> 0:32:41.040 one quote unquote bad teachers. Elder blames teacher unions for 0:32:41.200 --> 0:32:44.959 quote protecting bad teachers, and in a recent interview stated, 0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:48.280 quote someone told me that between five percent and seven 0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:51.239 percent of public school teachers need to be fired. An 0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:53.840 emergency declaration would give the power to get rid of 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:58.160 bad teachers faster than the system allows. Once you did that, automatically, 0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:03.640 education would improve overnight unquote. Now, Elder is not specified 0:33:03.760 --> 0:33:06.600 who had advised him on teacher terminations or how he 0:33:06.640 --> 0:33:09.480 plans to weed out the so called bad teachers out 0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:12.840 of the three thousand in the school system. He's also 0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:17.040 touted plans to declare a homeless emergency, but his solutions 0:33:17.080 --> 0:33:20.560 have nothing to do with actually helping homeless people. His 0:33:20.640 --> 0:33:25.280 homeless emergency declaration would allow him to suspend the California 0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:30.200 Environmental Quality Act, the long requiring environmental review of building projects. 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:35.920 Elders stated goal is to unleash developers and contractors without 0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:39.920 environmental regulation, which he claims to quote tries developers and 0:33:39.960 --> 0:33:44.080 contractors like criminals, unquote, and allows building projects to get 0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:48.480 suspended indefinitely, ultimately raising the cost of housing in his opinion. 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:51.880 One of the more frightening aspects of Larry Elder is 0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:56.280 his close ties to many far right propagandists. He's done 0:33:56.280 --> 0:33:59.280 work for Praker You Epic times, and has been a 0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:02.040 guest on Fox News at least two hundred and twenty 0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:05.320 times in the past five years. In the last episode, 0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:08.600 we discussed his friendship with Dennis Prager. Also Dave Reuben 0:34:08.760 --> 0:34:11.920 just recently campaigned for Elder at a recent rally, and 0:34:12.000 --> 0:34:14.080 a month and a half ago, Elder was on Candice 0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:18.680 Owens Show discussing how the descendants of slave owners deserve 0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:23.080 reparations for having their property i e. Black people stolen 0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:25.880 from them when the slaves were freed. Those are his words, 0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:30.759 not mine. What's probably most concerning is Elder's connection to 0:34:30.880 --> 0:34:35.040 Stephen Miller. In fact, we wouldn't have Stephen Miller if 0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:38.760 it were not for Larry Elder. Back in the late nineties, 0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:42.160 a conservative student from Santa Monica High School would call 0:34:42.239 --> 0:34:47.600 into Larry Elder's show to rant about his school's liberal culture. Reportedly, 0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:50.800 the student would go around demanding staff and fellow students 0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:55.400 regularly recite the Pledge of Allegiance. He railed against condom 0:34:55.440 --> 0:35:00.640 giveaways and called Spanish language announcements quote a crup preventing 0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:05.720 Spanish speakers from standing on their own unquote. Young Californians 0:35:05.760 --> 0:35:08.760 calling into Elder's show and agreeing with him wasn't very common, 0:35:08.920 --> 0:35:11.719 and Elder ate it up. He loved talking with the 0:35:11.760 --> 0:35:14.440 students so much that he let the kid on basically 0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:17.080 any time he wanted a platform to rant and rave. 0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:21.200 You know where this is going. That student was Stephen Miller. 0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:25.640 According to Miller, he appeared on Elder's show sixty nine times. 0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:28.920 Throughout his time in high school and university, and calls 0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:33.320 Elder quote the one true guide I've always had unquote. 0:35:34.800 --> 0:35:38.839 Miller's appearances on Elder's radio show made him a recognizable 0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:42.760 figure in the larger conservative media world, helping him connect 0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:47.640 with Steve Bannon and eventually President Trump. By extension, Elder 0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:50.840 was Stephen Miller's on ramp to the White House. In 0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:54.680 an email to Miller in twenty sixteen, Elder told him quote, 0:35:54.880 --> 0:35:56.719 I hope to live to see the day when you 0:35:56.840 --> 0:36:00.759 become president. When media has brought up his friendship with 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:04.640 Stephen Miller, Elder tries very quickly to change the subject 0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.400 when pushed on the topic. In a recent interview, Elder 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:11.000 shot back with quote, why would you bring up Stephen Miller? 0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:14.240 I'm just wondering what the agenda here is? What's the point? 0:36:14.360 --> 0:36:19.560 Am I somehow what a Nazi? A fascist? Unquote? I 0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:23.080 think that says enough. The reason we haven't discussed the 0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:26.600 other candidates in the recall election is because at this point, 0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:29.919 if Newsom is recalled, it's absolutely certain that Elder will 0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:32.440 be the one to succeed him. He has a twenty 0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:36.040 point lead ahead other challengers, but that lead is still 0:36:36.080 --> 0:36:39.600 only a tiny fraction of the total electorate, which demonstrates 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:43.879 the part of the problem in California's recall process. There 0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:47.879 are other Republican challengers with concerning pasts and beliefs, lots 0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:52.160 of anti mask, anti trans, anti vax, total disbelief, and 0:36:52.239 --> 0:36:55.880 climate change people spouting q and on originated conspiracy claims 0:36:56.320 --> 0:36:59.600 advocating the lie that the presidential election was stolen. And 0:36:59.760 --> 0:37:02.200 there's even a Democrat challenger that plans to use the 0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:05.480 National Guard to round up all homeless people and put 0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:09.680 them in concentration camps. But Elder himself shares a lot 0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:12.640 of those views and uses the fact that he's black 0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:16.480 as a shield for criticism against his racist and nationalist 0:37:16.520 --> 0:37:20.560 policies and ideas. We haven't even mentioned that last month 0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:23.759 Elder's ex fiance came out and said that Elder was 0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:27.040 extremely abusive and had threatened her with a loaded gun. 0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:30.400 In early August, polls were showing pretty much neck and 0:37:30.480 --> 0:37:32.920 neck for the first question on the ballot, yes or 0:37:32.960 --> 0:37:36.279 no on the recall itself. A survey USA pull from 0:37:36.320 --> 0:37:40.200 that time even had respondents vote no on the recall 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:44.360 and fifty one percent vote yes to remove Newsom Throughout 0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:47.840 August and September, results started to flip the other direction 0:37:48.000 --> 0:37:51.040 as ads against the recall hit the airwaves and internet. 0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:55.040 The latest Survey USA poll has fifty four percent voting 0:37:55.040 --> 0:37:59.560 No one the recall and voting yes. Other polls hover 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:03.160 around same ten to fifteen point lead for Newsome staying 0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:07.680 in office. Now, with pools not going the way Elder 0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:10.680 in the GOP would like, we're starting to see a new, 0:38:11.000 --> 0:38:16.480 yet familiar narrative being prepared on on my on my website, 0:38:16.520 --> 0:38:19.400 elect elder dot com. We have voter Integrity Project. We 0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:21.520 have lawyers all set up, all ready to go to 0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:25.200 foul lawsuits in a timely fashion. The reason the lawsuits 0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:27.640 did not did not work in the election. We know 0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:30.200 what happened there is because the lawsuits were filed too 0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:32.520 late and many of them were dismissed one procedural grounds. 0:38:32.880 --> 0:38:35.319 Of course, don't like to overturn an election. So when 0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:37.680 did you hear of anything suspicious? We've heard a lot 0:38:37.719 --> 0:38:39.680 of things that have been suspicious so far. Go to 0:38:39.760 --> 0:38:42.120 elect Goda dot com. We're gonna sick our lawyers on 0:38:42.160 --> 0:38:44.400 them foul lawsuits right away. They're gonna cheat. We know that. 0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:47.960 Can I tell you what. So many people are angry 0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:50.680 about the crime, about the homelessness, about the way he 0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:53.080 shut down this state, About the fact that one third 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:55.160 of all small businesses, many of them are owned by 0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:57.919 black and brown and Easian American people, that they hear about. 0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:00.399 But the declining call of the schools, but the fact 0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:03.480 that people are leaving, rolling BrownHouse, lack of water. So 0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:06.080 many people are angry. The number of people that are 0:39:06.080 --> 0:39:08.000 going to vote to recall this man is going to 0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:10.399 be so overwhelming, So then even when they cheat, they're 0:39:10.400 --> 0:39:14.759 still gonna lose. That's Larry Elder saying that if he 0:39:14.840 --> 0:39:18.280 doesn't win, that means the election must have been stolen. 0:39:18.960 --> 0:39:22.160 Fox News has been promoting the same idea the past month. 0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:25.960 All of it is in the vein of the Stop 0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:30.720 the Steel movement post presdential election, culminating with the attempted 0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:35.120 insurrection on January six. Here's Elder again on Fox News 0:39:35.200 --> 0:39:38.000 in early September. But you're right, I am concerned about 0:39:38.080 --> 0:39:40.719 voter fraud, and that's why I'm asking people to go 0:39:40.760 --> 0:39:44.160 to elect Elder dot com. That's my website. We have 0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:46.440 a voter integrity project set up with a bunch of 0:39:46.560 --> 0:39:49.840 lawyers ready to foul lawsuits if anybody sees anything suspicious. 0:39:50.120 --> 0:39:55.080 Big election fraud conspiracy proponent and former House Speaker Newt 0:39:55.200 --> 0:39:58.120 Gingrich was one of the first people to chime in 0:39:58.520 --> 0:40:01.880 to stoke disinformation of at the recall election. And I 0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:05.680 think this may well be the most rigged stay wide 0:40:05.719 --> 0:40:09.600 election we've seen probably at least a half century. And 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:12.000 I think people should look carefully of this because it's 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:14.760 pretty good evidence that if Newsom is in a straight, 0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:17.840 honest count, he probably has a good chance of losing. 0:40:18.360 --> 0:40:21.359 But if they can stuff every ballot box in California 0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:24.640 and they can cheat in every way possible, and of 0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:27.040 course this type of propaganda has made it onto the 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:31.480 most watched cable news show on air, Tucker Carlson, California 0:40:31.520 --> 0:40:33.560 does not get the credit it deserves for the corruption 0:40:33.680 --> 0:40:36.200 that's endemic there. It's a one party state and they 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:38.879 act like it. And you've got to have concerns about 0:40:38.880 --> 0:40:41.359 whether this recall election will be free and fair. Are 0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:45.480 you concerned? Well, of course I'm concerned, Tucker. I'm involved 0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:48.319 in election integrity efforts throughout the United States, and I'm 0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:51.000 also member of the Republican National Committee, so we have 0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:53.400 a team of lawyers that is ready to deploy throughout 0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:56.520 the state here, and we are monitoring things every single day. 0:40:56.600 --> 0:40:58.640 Just a couple of hours ago, I filed a lawsuit 0:40:58.680 --> 0:41:02.520 to intervene a challenge to the constitutionality of the recall 0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:05.239 statute because frankly, I don't trust the Secretary of State 0:41:05.360 --> 0:41:08.320 or the Attorney General, who are both appointed by the governor, 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:11.319 to defend him in this regard, and so we are 0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:14.239 going to be jumping on every potential opportunity to do 0:41:14.280 --> 0:41:16.440 that and fight back against the Democrats. Of course, they 0:41:16.440 --> 0:41:19.360 are playing fast and loose. We've seen some very alarming 0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:23.400 scenes of three ballots bundled together in the car of 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:25.560 a person with a gun and some drugs, and so 0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:28.400 we are definitely looking into all of these issues. But Tucker, 0:41:28.480 --> 0:41:30.680 ultimately it's going to come down to how much do 0:41:30.719 --> 0:41:32.719 people want to change in California. And I can tell 0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:36.600 you even living in my latte sipping avocado toast, eating, 0:41:37.120 --> 0:41:40.359 you know, Lululemon wearing neighborhood in San Francisco, people are 0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:43.160 fed up with the crime, the drugs, the homelessness, the 0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:47.600 intermittent electricity, and everything else that is wrong with California, 0:41:47.680 --> 0:41:50.480 So people want to change here. It's just not working. 0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:53.760 And this really is a test of whether our system works. 0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:56.799 I mean, can people get better leadership? That's kind of 0:41:56.800 --> 0:42:00.480 the question. Will there be election observers on a scene 0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:03.880 so the rest of us can know this was fair? Well, 0:42:04.920 --> 0:42:08.080 the problem in California is that the voting doesn't just 0:42:08.120 --> 0:42:10.239 take place on election day like it would in a 0:42:10.320 --> 0:42:13.120 normal place. It takes it's taking place now on a 0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:15.680 rolling basis through mail in voting. It's a hundred percent 0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:18.600 mail in ballots this time around, and it is going 0:42:18.640 --> 0:42:20.759 to take place for thirty days after the election if 0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:22.879 it's close, because they have thirty days to count the vote. 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:25.319 That's sixty days of voting. And of course a lot 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:28.680 of shenanigans can occur and ballots can disappear. So we 0:42:28.719 --> 0:42:30.880 are going to be observing it very closely and demanding 0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:34.040 accountability and filing lawsuits wherever we need to to hold 0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:38.120 the Democrats accountable because we cannot trust them. Yeah, I hope. 0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:40.160 So people want to believe the system works, that it's 0:42:40.160 --> 0:42:42.520 real that they have powered their vote matters. So I 0:42:42.560 --> 0:42:45.440 appreciate what you're doing, Harmydale. Thank you a lot of 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:48.680 what's said in that last clip is either extremely misrepresented 0:42:48.840 --> 0:42:52.560 or just flat outlines. Those three ballots found in a car, 0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:56.400 we're actually part of a larger mail theft thing not 0:42:56.520 --> 0:43:00.720 related to the election at all. Voters have received new ballots, 0:43:01.800 --> 0:43:04.839 and for this election, just like the last one, Californians 0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:08.040 have the option to vote in person, to mail in ballots, 0:43:08.160 --> 0:43:11.319 or deliver them in a dropbox. The deadline to drop 0:43:11.360 --> 0:43:17.000 off mail or place your vote is September. Counting cannot 0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:20.560 start till the fourteenth either, and like every election, there 0:43:20.600 --> 0:43:24.680 will be observers throughout the entire counting process. Obviously, this 0:43:24.719 --> 0:43:28.320 isn't the first time conservative media has hyped up election fraud, 0:43:28.880 --> 0:43:31.919 the last presidential election being the biggest instance to date. 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:35.200 But what is concerning here is that they're setting up 0:43:35.239 --> 0:43:40.440 a template to use for all future elections whenever Republicans lose. 0:43:41.200 --> 0:43:44.759 Here's a Fox clip from September seven. The only thing 0:43:44.800 --> 0:43:47.480 that will save Gavin Newsom is voter fraud. So, as 0:43:47.520 --> 0:43:50.480 they say, stay woke, pay attention to the voter fraud 0:43:50.520 --> 0:43:53.080 going on in California because it's going to have big 0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:56.520 consequences not only for that state, but for upcoming elections. 0:43:56.640 --> 0:43:59.520 It's safe to assume that stop the steal esque strategies 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:02.640 will be us almost every time a Republican loses in 0:44:02.680 --> 0:44:06.719 an election going forward. We've seen exactly what this type 0:44:06.760 --> 0:44:10.160 of rhetoric and propaganda leads to, and it ends in blood. 0:44:11.160 --> 0:44:14.240 There were multiple attacks on state capitals during the Stop 0:44:14.320 --> 0:44:18.000 to Steel rallies prior to January six. In some places 0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:21.760 like Salem, Oregon, they succeeded in getting inside the capital. 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:25.520 Even if Newsom gets to stay in office, there will 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:30.160 still be many problems, electric conspiracies, and the possibility of violence, 0:44:30.200 --> 0:44:34.040 like January six, just being one. We haven't wanted to 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:38.120 righteously defend Newsom here. He's a politician and inept in 0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:42.040 many ways. He deserves plenty of criticism, especially on the 0:44:42.040 --> 0:44:45.960 issues of climate change, but the criticism levied at Newsom 0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:48.720 from the likes of Elder in the GOP are based 0:44:48.760 --> 0:44:53.239 on bigotry, nationalism, and climate denial. Newsom should be our 0:44:53.320 --> 0:45:07.959 punching bag, not theirs. Greetings and welcome to it could 0:45:07.960 --> 0:45:11.080 happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I am a researcher and 0:45:11.200 --> 0:45:15.600 writer on the podcast team. Today we have a roundtable 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:20.440 discussion with a group of researchers who look into extremism 0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:25.080 and political political violence that's usually stemming from far right 0:45:25.120 --> 0:45:29.560 propagandists and people in that kind of whole sphere. So 0:45:29.880 --> 0:45:33.120 we have a discussion relating to climate change and all 0:45:33.160 --> 0:45:35.200 these other things. So that I was able to record 0:45:35.320 --> 0:45:37.960 these fine people. It's split up into two sections, So 0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:40.040 part one is coming out today, Part two is coming 0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:43.520 out to tomorrow. Highly recommend you listen to both, maybe 0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:45.920 maybe even back to back at some point because it 0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:49.719 does really give a nice rounded out um view of 0:45:49.719 --> 0:45:52.399 what we were talking about. So, without further ado, here 0:45:52.640 --> 0:45:56.719 is my discussion with I kind of know, well not 0:45:56.719 --> 0:45:59.520 not a dozen, but of a lot a large amount 0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:03.680 of some researchers. As we are all uh in the woods. 0:46:03.719 --> 0:46:10.719 As you will soon find out, welcome to it can 0:46:10.840 --> 0:46:14.680 happened here the Daily Show. I am Garrison Davis, and 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:17.360 I am recording in an undisclosed location in the woods. 0:46:18.120 --> 0:46:21.600 Um we are me and a few a few Internet 0:46:21.680 --> 0:46:24.560 colleagues are all hiding from the world for a week 0:46:24.640 --> 0:46:28.520 to reset our poisoned brains. But I'm gonna slightly re 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:31.200 poison us here for about an hour to have a 0:46:31.239 --> 0:46:36.960 discussion about climate change and terrorism because all we have 0:46:36.960 --> 0:46:40.320 a group of people here who are all well research 0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:43.360 the bad thing online a lot. So I'm going to 0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:46.600 try to try to use to take advantage of having 0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:49.760 this uh unique group of people all in one location 0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:53.160 to have this nice discussion for you guys. But yeah, specifically, 0:46:53.200 --> 0:46:55.279 we want to we want to talk about how we 0:46:55.600 --> 0:46:58.200 how each of us has an you know, quote unquote 0:46:58.239 --> 0:47:03.960 expert in certain fields. Um see climate change impacting impacting 0:47:04.480 --> 0:47:09.400 extremism and terrorism in the next in the next few decades. Um. 0:47:09.440 --> 0:47:11.000 And yes, we are recording in the forest. So if 0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:13.080 you hear sounds like we're in the forest, that's because 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:16.000 we are. Um. You you guys already know me, or 0:47:16.080 --> 0:47:18.319 you probably do. But I'm gonna we're gonna go around 0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:21.600 a circle, probably starting on my left, um, introducing the people. 0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:25.040 And yeah, just give a brief a brief brief bio. 0:47:25.560 --> 0:47:28.680 However detail do you want to get into. My name's 0:47:28.719 --> 0:47:33.839 Matt Taylor. I'm a journalist and researcher focusing on cults, um, 0:47:33.960 --> 0:47:39.200 conspiracy theories, and extremism. And to day is my birthday. 0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:44.000 Happy birthday, Matt. In the in the past, my name's THEO. 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:47.160 I am a journalist and researcher as well. I mostly 0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:52.759 focused on the American militia movement and paramilitary groups. I'm 0:47:52.800 --> 0:47:58.920 toothpick Um with THEO Matt Emmy and Big New Houses. 0:47:59.000 --> 0:48:02.880 Isn't here on terrorism bad? That's that's a that's a podcast, 0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:08.440 by the way, self plug um. My research and reporting 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:12.200 focuses on mainly on conspiracy theories and where that overlaps 0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:18.239 with political extremism and the focus on connections between US 0:48:18.280 --> 0:48:23.680 in Europe, especially Germany. I'm Peter Smith. I'm a journalist 0:48:23.680 --> 0:48:26.080 with the Canadian Anti Hate Network and the host of 0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:33.160 the Unusual Show podcast. I'm Lily and I focus on 0:48:33.760 --> 0:48:39.600 experimism and kind of terrorism and data analysis. And I'm Emmy. 0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:45.360 I do digital propaganda and rhetoric. That that that is 0:48:45.400 --> 0:48:50.160 our little crew. Um. Yeah, let's see what the first 0:48:50.160 --> 0:48:52.640 thing we kind of want to talk about, I'm guessing 0:48:53.280 --> 0:48:57.640 is how we see like small because like the podcast 0:48:57.719 --> 0:49:00.719 is more about like smaller local collapses, So we don't 0:49:00.880 --> 0:49:03.239 there's not gonna be one big collaps. We're just see 0:49:03.280 --> 0:49:05.800 small things start to fall apart. And how we see 0:49:06.040 --> 0:49:08.439 when small things all apart, what we do we see 0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:10.839 filling in those gaps? Specifically, I think this will tie 0:49:10.880 --> 0:49:14.280 into the militia movement a lot in a lot of ways. UM. 0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:19.520 So yeah, you guys can start sprouting off your your knowledge. Yeah. 0:49:19.640 --> 0:49:21.319 So one of the things that I've been thinking of 0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:23.839 and following it. I don't know if this has made 0:49:23.840 --> 0:49:27.080 as much of an impact in US media UM, but 0:49:27.320 --> 0:49:30.239 in the last month UM, parts of Germany and the 0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:36.040 Netherlands experienced UM really bad flooding UM that that literally 0:49:36.160 --> 0:49:41.759 wiped out some villages in some towns UM. And one 0:49:41.800 --> 0:49:45.160 of the things that we've seen in Germany is you know, 0:49:45.239 --> 0:49:49.520 far right groups UM. There isn't really a militia movement 0:49:49.520 --> 0:49:51.399 because of the law is there, but but far right 0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:55.000 groups rushing in UM and collecting aid and going for 0:49:55.080 --> 0:49:59.520 photo ops UH in those catastrophe areas UM. And what 0:49:59.600 --> 0:50:02.239 that does make me think of And maybe THEO can 0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:04.960 talk more about this as we've seen similar stuff in 0:50:04.960 --> 0:50:08.719 the US with the militia moving marking themselves as you know, 0:50:08.760 --> 0:50:13.279 emergency preparedness UM or marking them selves in that way 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:17.799 and positioning themselves where when you know the government is 0:50:17.880 --> 0:50:20.919 unable to respond, that these groups are able to come 0:50:20.920 --> 0:50:23.799 in UM and also using that for their messaging and 0:50:23.800 --> 0:50:27.120 for their rhetoric. Yeah, so, I mean that is something 0:50:27.120 --> 0:50:30.960 that you see in the US. The biggest example, Garrison 0:50:30.960 --> 0:50:34.400 and I talked about this earlier, but during the wildfires 0:50:34.400 --> 0:50:38.520 in Oregon last year, you saw checkpoints being established by 0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:42.200 militia groups, whether are already formed militia groups are kind 0:50:42.200 --> 0:50:47.080 of impromptu armed bands. And you also see that as 0:50:47.080 --> 0:50:49.239 like a big marketing thing. I know a lot of 0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:53.840 the Virginia based militias that I follow went out to 0:50:53.960 --> 0:50:59.520 Tennessee two one or two years ago when the tornadoes happened. 0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:01.920 I was gonna mentioned that, Yeah, they did a bunch 0:51:02.239 --> 0:51:08.120 of kind of aid and photo ops. Yeah. So just 0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:11.359 not to docks myself, but I'm from Nashville, and and uh, 0:51:11.800 --> 0:51:16.040 the beginning of in March, right before someone just dropped 0:51:16.040 --> 0:51:18.520 a toy gun. Great job, guys. Yeah. So in the 0:51:18.520 --> 0:51:23.440 beginning of March of last year, right before COVID hit Nashville, 0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:26.799 we had a huge tornado go through Nashville itself and 0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:31.760 wipe out like two different neighborhoods and then a rural 0:51:31.800 --> 0:51:34.920 town right outside of Nashville. But you saw a lot 0:51:35.000 --> 0:51:37.800 of like so the community comes together in this really 0:51:37.880 --> 0:51:40.920 nice display mutual aid to do all the cleanup basically 0:51:40.960 --> 0:51:43.680 before any official cruise could get there. But with that 0:51:43.760 --> 0:51:45.759 you also sell like these far right groups coming in 0:51:45.800 --> 0:51:49.160 for photo ops and it just it normalizes their presence 0:51:49.280 --> 0:51:55.480 in heavily impacted areas. And it was not not ideal. Yeah, 0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:58.920 a lot of the American militia movement, especially the modern 0:51:59.160 --> 0:52:03.120 kind of post tooth was an eight strain of it 0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:06.799 is predicated on this idea of a complete breakdown of 0:52:06.920 --> 0:52:10.720 order or a loss of civil order. However you conceive 0:52:10.760 --> 0:52:15.520 of that. And um, these like climate disasters that are 0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:17.920 going to hit areas are going to kind of provide 0:52:17.960 --> 0:52:20.880 a self fulfilling prophecy for these people to step in 0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:22.799 and say like, oh no, you need some sort of 0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:25.120 armed force, You need some sort of group of people 0:52:25.120 --> 0:52:28.440 to keep order and to keep law in whatever way 0:52:28.480 --> 0:52:30.800 they conceive of that. I do think it's interesting you 0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:32.680 guys talking about kind of like the photo op thing 0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:35.360 that they do, because when the wildfire has happened in Oregon, 0:52:35.920 --> 0:52:38.719 all of the the actual like relief work was done 0:52:38.719 --> 0:52:41.239 by anti fascists. Like we like people in Portland, we 0:52:41.280 --> 0:52:43.640 set up, you know, these these massive camps to help. 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:45.520 We know all these like you know, much more conservative 0:52:45.520 --> 0:52:47.319 people who who have who ad to that wait their 0:52:47.480 --> 0:52:49.839 back to their homes and they were all getting fed 0:52:49.920 --> 0:52:52.560 and all like their closes that were coming from anti fascists, 0:52:52.680 --> 0:52:54.719 and the all the right did was do the arm 0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:57.680 checkpoints thing. But interesting that like in the South, where 0:52:57.680 --> 0:53:00.600 there's less anti fascists, like you know, compared to the generals, 0:53:00.640 --> 0:53:03.360 compared to the Portland Right, how some of those groups 0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:06.160 actually do do some of the relief effort um and 0:53:06.200 --> 0:53:08.360 that that's definitely not the case up here in the 0:53:08.200 --> 0:53:11.200 in the West coast. Oh yeah, I mean last year, 0:53:11.480 --> 0:53:15.040 I remember a few county level militias that I follow 0:53:15.280 --> 0:53:20.239 in Virginia. We're like seriously doing relief work, Like they 0:53:20.239 --> 0:53:22.920 were gathering food, they were taking out places affected by 0:53:23.040 --> 0:53:27.319 flooding in North Carolina, but tornadoes and Tennessee. It's not 0:53:27.640 --> 0:53:29.600 I wouldn't go so far as to call it mutual 0:53:29.680 --> 0:53:32.359 aid because it lacks the kind of ideological framework for that. 0:53:32.400 --> 0:53:36.360 But they are providing some sort of infrastructure for their guys. 0:53:36.960 --> 0:53:39.960 Yeah yeah, with yeah, with with less of like the 0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:42.120 theory side of mutually but like, and I'm sure there's 0:53:42.120 --> 0:53:43.680 someone else who can speak more on this, but like 0:53:44.880 --> 0:53:47.520 from my perspective growing up in a super weird church, 0:53:47.600 --> 0:53:50.239 I see this in interacting, they see this like combining 0:53:50.280 --> 0:53:52.880 with local churches a lot as well. Um, I'm not 0:53:52.920 --> 0:53:55.960 sure there's anyone else here who could say something more 0:53:56.000 --> 0:54:00.239 intelligently than me about how like religion will come line 0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:04.520 with these like kind of militia efforts. Well, I would 0:54:04.600 --> 0:54:07.960 like eco eco extremists, like on the far right, on 0:54:08.000 --> 0:54:11.719 the very very fringe far right, can start to like 0:54:12.080 --> 0:54:18.360 be very esoteric about there, you know, belief in climate change, 0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:21.960 and they start to sort of frame it as like 0:54:22.840 --> 0:54:26.640 a reason for the collapse. Um, that we need collapse, 0:54:27.000 --> 0:54:32.760 are attacking infrastructure, like for the purpose of somehow saving 0:54:32.840 --> 0:54:35.560 the planet, even though it's really not going to get 0:54:35.640 --> 0:54:38.200 anywhere we really need to. We have to do with 0:54:38.320 --> 0:54:40.239 a lot of our own work on the planet. We 0:54:40.239 --> 0:54:43.000 can't just destroy everything and see if it working. Yeah, 0:54:43.160 --> 0:54:48.879 we can definitely bring up accelerationists and accelerationism as a 0:54:48.880 --> 0:54:51.640 as an over overarching thing that is, you know, not 0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:55.600 just it not to be like horseshoe theory about it, 0:54:55.640 --> 0:54:58.000 but the accelation is that pops up a whole whole 0:54:58.040 --> 0:55:00.239 lot of areas, including areas of the left to where 0:55:00.239 --> 0:55:03.120 it becomes very unuseful, um and it can lead to 0:55:03.360 --> 0:55:06.560 like a lot of wasted time and some destructive tendencies. 0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:09.520 I mean, I think that point kind of also provides 0:55:09.520 --> 0:55:13.399 an interesting through line between more mainstream militias and like 0:55:13.520 --> 0:55:20.520 the really esoteric brands of eco fascism or ecologically based extremism. 0:55:20.680 --> 0:55:24.759 Is that, like they're both very influenced by like colonial 0:55:25.080 --> 0:55:28.560 schools of thought, like eco fascism and all that is 0:55:28.840 --> 0:55:31.280 kind of predicated on this idea of like Tera Noli's 0:55:31.920 --> 0:55:34.960 like there is this perfect empty wild land that we 0:55:35.000 --> 0:55:38.799 can have manifest destiny exactly, And like so much of 0:55:38.840 --> 0:55:42.719 the ideas of order and um like peacekeeping that you 0:55:42.800 --> 0:55:46.560 find within more mainstream militia movements come from this exact 0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:49.880 same type of thinking, where it's like a colonial order 0:55:49.960 --> 0:55:51.880 that you need to keep. Yeah. I know, there's a 0:55:51.960 --> 0:55:53.919 lot of a lot of people on the left who 0:55:53.920 --> 0:55:59.080 are in like the kind of like you know, green green, 0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:02.040 like like ecosocialist or like green anarchists. Kind of strains 0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:04.160 to get very frustrated when people talk about eco fascism, 0:56:04.160 --> 0:56:06.680 which I can understand because no one really means the 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:08.480 same thing when they talk about it. Sometimes they just 0:56:08.560 --> 0:56:12.919 mean any like any like quote unquote terrorism that has 0:56:13.040 --> 0:56:16.520 like has like an environmental purpose. Some people, you know, 0:56:16.680 --> 0:56:20.000 when they think of eco fascists, we think of like overpopulation. Um. 0:56:20.000 --> 0:56:21.480 You know, there's a lot of different things they mean 0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:23.080 mean by it. But I know we we've all had 0:56:23.160 --> 0:56:26.800 talks about like what we personally view as like eco fascism, 0:56:26.840 --> 0:56:30.040 because it's's it's it's not just eco streamism, like eco 0:56:30.080 --> 0:56:31.960 streamism does not equal fascism. Like there is there's a 0:56:31.960 --> 0:56:35.879 whole bunch of eco extremists who are very anti fascist, um. 0:56:35.920 --> 0:56:38.759 And there is some who kind of bridge bridge the gap, 0:56:38.840 --> 0:56:40.799 you know, like like like id S has some more 0:56:40.840 --> 0:56:45.080 fascist tendencies, But I would not accurately call them fascist 0:56:45.120 --> 0:56:47.000 based on the type of stuff they do with type 0:56:47.000 --> 0:56:48.800 of right and they do. They do not have they 0:56:48.840 --> 0:56:51.520 do not check all of the boxes. Um. But then 0:56:51.560 --> 0:56:53.800 then we do have people who I would accurately describe 0:56:53.800 --> 0:56:56.040 as eco fascists who have done who've done you know, 0:56:56.040 --> 0:56:57.799 mass shootings, who have a lot of eco who have 0:56:57.880 --> 0:57:00.920 eco fascist stuff either in the writing that they like 0:57:01.080 --> 0:57:03.719 or their own manifestos. They bring up enough points it's like, yeah, 0:57:03.880 --> 0:57:06.839 you kind of fall into this broad category. Just someone 0:57:06.880 --> 0:57:09.960 here want to give their personal definition of ego fascism. 0:57:09.960 --> 0:57:12.560 This isn't this not necessarily exactly what we use for 0:57:12.600 --> 0:57:14.600 the pod, but I just I'm interested to here is 0:57:14.600 --> 0:57:17.040 a lot of people with various backgrounds. Everyone has their 0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:19.760 own specialized knowledge. What kind of when people say that, what, 0:57:19.760 --> 0:57:21.800 what do you kind of put into that category? People 0:57:21.960 --> 0:57:25.600 believe in like this organic law and like natural order, 0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:28.440 and they believe that like there is a natural hierarchy 0:57:28.840 --> 0:57:35.360 ingrained in everything. And I think that generally, like if 0:57:35.400 --> 0:57:40.120 we return to like some kind of primitive society or like, 0:57:41.840 --> 0:57:48.640 you know, they'll assume that like everything has uh its 0:57:48.680 --> 0:57:50.280 own structure, and that there's going to be people who 0:57:50.400 --> 0:57:55.600 rise to the top, people who just you know, uh 0:57:55.920 --> 0:57:57.920 don't belong in that kind of society. It's going to 0:57:57.960 --> 0:58:01.520 be really damaging for like the elder, for disabled people. 0:58:02.000 --> 0:58:05.520 And they just sort of see it as like survival 0:58:05.520 --> 0:58:07.640 of the fist um. And I think that's like a 0:58:07.720 --> 0:58:10.680 much more eco fascist point of view rather than like 0:58:10.720 --> 0:58:13.880 a more green anarchist point of view where things would 0:58:13.880 --> 0:58:19.280 sort of even out um rather than become a hierarchical Yeah. Yeah, 0:58:19.280 --> 0:58:21.640 I think hierarchy is an important part of that. And 0:58:21.680 --> 0:58:22.960 how we you know, there is like a lot of 0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:25.439 green anarchist who are focusing on like making their own 0:58:25.440 --> 0:58:28.240 medication for for you know, people with diabetes and stuff, 0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:29.680 and that'skind of stuff that is like really interesting to 0:58:29.680 --> 0:58:32.000 look at and stuff that we should absolutely pursue because 0:58:32.000 --> 0:58:34.560 will become less relianced with apply chains. And we don't 0:58:34.560 --> 0:58:38.080 really see ego fascists doing that. We do not see 0:58:38.120 --> 0:58:42.440 them focusing on making medication for people. Oh no, maybe 0:58:42.480 --> 0:58:45.280 I can kind of set some people have to say 0:58:45.280 --> 0:58:46.640 more stuff if I say, was real quickly. But one 0:58:46.640 --> 0:58:48.840 of things that I always or that that is a 0:58:48.840 --> 0:58:51.400 red flag for me is is just you know, bring 0:58:51.400 --> 0:58:55.480 in this very traditional discussions of gender roles and and 0:58:55.600 --> 0:58:59.840 relating that to the environment. Yeay of our rhetoric an example, 0:59:01.200 --> 0:59:03.240 I mean, I don't we don't need to say names 0:59:03.240 --> 0:59:08.240 of specific like writers are people, but there's definitely describe 0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:11.840 the general sure, yeah, stop playing with the toy gun. 0:59:11.880 --> 0:59:18.040 Oh my god. Um, just just like establishing and it 0:59:18.200 --> 0:59:20.120 is kind of it can be kind of like an 0:59:20.160 --> 0:59:25.680 older left thing too, but establishing you know, ecological discussions 0:59:25.680 --> 0:59:30.040 within framework of traditional gender roles. Um. And kind of 0:59:30.080 --> 0:59:35.440 like what is expected of people based on their sex. Yeah, 0:59:35.480 --> 0:59:37.160 this is this is this is the dark side of 0:59:37.160 --> 0:59:41.640 cottage core. That's one way to put Yeah, I mean 0:59:41.640 --> 0:59:47.080 you want to get in here, Oh boy, Yeah, I 0:59:47.160 --> 0:59:49.480 like parts of cottage courts not want intersect with a 0:59:49.480 --> 0:59:54.360 certain strain of politics, like queer. Cottage core is extremely 0:59:54.400 --> 0:59:59.680 cute until yeah, well until you're not queer, and listen, 0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:04.640 you know, sometimes they still are. Now Here's the thing. 1:00:05.240 --> 1:00:08.800 When we're when we're dealing with like traditional gender role stuff, 1:00:08.840 --> 1:00:16.320 it's a really like slippery slope into more aggressive strains 1:00:16.360 --> 1:00:19.120 of thought. So when we're when we're talking about the 1:00:19.120 --> 1:00:30.840 the idea of of the class will it's mass birthday. 1:00:30.920 --> 1:00:37.600 You asked to apologize. Yeah, yeah, ripped to the editor. 1:00:37.640 --> 1:00:42.680 I wouldn't know. That's so good. So when they're talking 1:00:42.680 --> 1:00:45.040 about the class and they want, you know, they think 1:00:45.640 --> 1:00:48.200 the rod of modernity will be gone, society will be ended. 1:00:48.200 --> 1:00:50.000 They can they can you know, rebuild from the ground 1:00:50.080 --> 1:00:53.360 up smaller communities and uh, they can. They can build 1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:56.880 the society they want, which is largely no nationalists. It's 1:00:56.920 --> 1:00:59.920 not great. The the idea that there will be this 1:01:00.160 --> 1:01:04.560 this supertraditional family structure you're going to have your this 1:01:04.720 --> 1:01:10.560 combined strong warrior also homesteading man and your cool trad 1:01:10.600 --> 1:01:14.440 life who never ages above thirty in this society. Like 1:01:17.800 --> 1:01:20.720 I'm being generous here, assuming that at least like some 1:01:20.800 --> 1:01:24.960 of these people have a little bit of like pre planning, 1:01:25.000 --> 1:01:31.200 but they don't. They don't um, and they step on 1:01:31.200 --> 1:01:34.840 each other a lot, right because they have this this 1:01:34.920 --> 1:01:40.880 whole plan for this uh, this society free of industry um, 1:01:40.920 --> 1:01:44.480 and they can't stop posting about it on the Internet. 1:01:44.840 --> 1:01:47.600 It's really funny, right, Like they're not they're not good 1:01:47.640 --> 1:01:49.720 at it. Yeah, they're like way too addicted to posting 1:01:49.760 --> 1:01:53.120 to like actually commit to like the true off the 1:01:53.160 --> 1:01:55.520 grid trad life. At least at least ten k was 1:01:55.560 --> 1:02:00.439 off the grid. We don't gotta hand it. We don't 1:02:00.440 --> 1:02:02.480 got a handed to it. You got ahead, do you? 1:02:02.560 --> 1:02:06.440 Under circumstances? Got hit pod divided on how much we've 1:02:06.440 --> 1:02:09.720 gotta hand it? Said, Kay. The official stands of terrorism 1:02:09.720 --> 1:02:11.720 bad is a terrorism is bad When we just bring 1:02:11.720 --> 1:02:14.200 them on, it is kind of a concern when they 1:02:14.200 --> 1:02:17.280 do end up when they stop posting. I mean, yeah, 1:02:18.080 --> 1:02:21.760 when they're posting, but it's kind of more concerning post 1:02:22.120 --> 1:02:24.960 sometimes yeah. Yeah, if the same as like looking at 1:02:25.000 --> 1:02:27.640 a kid that wants to be a firefighter or something 1:02:27.760 --> 1:02:30.160 like they're just talking. They're not going to do it, 1:02:30.280 --> 1:02:32.320 but you see something, I'm doing it, and when they're 1:02:32.320 --> 1:02:37.400 doing the thing, the lifestyle influencer version of fascism. Yeah, 1:02:37.760 --> 1:02:39.800 do you think that it's going to affect kind of 1:02:39.840 --> 1:02:44.360 like laws about living off grid and laws about like 1:02:44.920 --> 1:02:47.880 for for normal people. I just want to get the 1:02:47.880 --> 1:02:50.160 funk out, Like I actually just read something about this. 1:02:50.200 --> 1:02:52.520 There's some guys who've been living off gride in Pennsylvania 1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:55.000 for like thirty years and I don't remember the details 1:02:55.040 --> 1:02:59.200 of this, and we don't have internet out here. Burn 1:02:59.280 --> 1:03:02.400 his house down. Yeah, he's in jail now. He's probably 1:03:02.440 --> 1:03:03.880 gonna be in jail for the rest of his life. 1:03:03.880 --> 1:03:06.560 And I think part of whether it comes from left 1:03:06.600 --> 1:03:09.200 through the right, as people kind of start to try 1:03:09.200 --> 1:03:12.400 to build resiliency within communities for disasters that are coming 1:03:12.520 --> 1:03:14.920 and start to seek ways of living that do not 1:03:15.000 --> 1:03:17.320 rely on supply chains and do not rely on the state, 1:03:17.720 --> 1:03:20.840 the state will strike back against that as a consolidation 1:03:20.880 --> 1:03:24.080 of power, because the more that people move away from it, 1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:26.520 whether on the left or right, the less power the 1:03:26.560 --> 1:03:30.360 state has, I mean, and utilizing counter terrorism an excuse 1:03:30.440 --> 1:03:33.760 to do so. Yeah, because they're giving reasons and it's 1:03:33.800 --> 1:03:38.280 not it's not going to get enforced equally. I'm sure's 1:03:38.320 --> 1:03:42.160 gonna gonna focus uncertain people doing this and be slightly 1:03:42.160 --> 1:03:46.479 more okay with other people doing it. Um. Yeah, what's so? 1:03:47.480 --> 1:03:49.400 I would like to talk about Canada a little bit 1:03:49.520 --> 1:03:54.200 because specifically climate change affecting Canada's can be veried. It's 1:03:54.200 --> 1:03:56.040 going to be slightly different, and most of it to 1:03:56.160 --> 1:03:58.680 go to the States because I've been I've been I've 1:03:58.680 --> 1:04:01.880 been having my like waist deep in climate science books 1:04:01.880 --> 1:04:07.080 for most of UM. And Canada's gonna probably see economic 1:04:07.080 --> 1:04:10.680 boosts um. And they're probably the state's probably just gonna 1:04:10.720 --> 1:04:13.280 a gap to get actually stronger because of how the 1:04:13.520 --> 1:04:16.200 same thing with Russia. Both Canada and Russia are going 1:04:16.240 --> 1:04:18.960 to get more economically powerful under climate change because of 1:04:19.000 --> 1:04:21.680 how much more props are gonna get moved up. How 1:04:22.480 --> 1:04:24.760 give me your thoughts to Canada, because Canada's my backup plan. 1:04:24.800 --> 1:04:26.920 It's gonna gets too spicy in the States. I'm I'm 1:04:26.920 --> 1:04:30.360 taking my Canadian passport and hiding in the woods. Um. 1:04:30.440 --> 1:04:35.040 How How it's it's interesting to hear you guys talk 1:04:35.080 --> 1:04:39.000 about American millistic culture because we we definitely are. Rhetoric 1:04:39.200 --> 1:04:42.040 and propaganda that we see in Canada gets borrowed a 1:04:42.040 --> 1:04:45.320 lot the talking points for the States, like the concepts, 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:50.160 but what we don't have are these strong organized militia groups. 1:04:50.200 --> 1:04:52.800 We had three per centers for a while um and 1:04:52.800 --> 1:04:55.920 who still exists, but they were they were big about 1:04:55.920 --> 1:04:57.960 being off right, like they were the ones who weren't 1:04:58.000 --> 1:05:01.360 posting for a long time. UM and it seems like 1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:03.439 as much as all these people are still around, they've 1:05:03.640 --> 1:05:08.160 largely deflated. Doubt his. Canada has made some some efforts 1:05:08.200 --> 1:05:11.560 to call them terrorists right right. Very recently, we designated 1:05:11.560 --> 1:05:16.240 them as a terrorist organization, which doesn't carry a criminal charge. 1:05:16.240 --> 1:05:19.320 But if you if you do something involved with them, 1:05:19.320 --> 1:05:21.960 you send them money like there is there are consequences 1:05:21.960 --> 1:05:27.080 of that legal enhancements, UM. But are are kind of 1:05:27.080 --> 1:05:31.800 militia culture focuses on the illegitimacy of the state that 1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:36.320 Canada is founded. It's very kind of soft sit type rhetoric, 1:05:36.400 --> 1:05:40.320 but that Canada's establishment, it's it's rules and especially with 1:05:40.400 --> 1:05:44.120 all the public health measures, it's this growing Uh, this 1:05:44.280 --> 1:05:48.200 growing kind of tired of thought in both the prairies 1:05:48.320 --> 1:05:52.160 and largely out west. I grew up in Saskatchewan. Um, 1:05:52.800 --> 1:05:55.120 most of my families in Alberta. I know when when 1:05:55.160 --> 1:05:57.080 I look at when I because I keep a soft 1:05:57.120 --> 1:05:59.520 eye on some Canadian hate groups just because I'm Canadian 1:06:00.040 --> 1:06:02.560 to them popped up around Alberta. Um, where do you 1:06:02.560 --> 1:06:04.080 see this stuff kind of like happening? Like do you 1:06:04.120 --> 1:06:05.880 see any of this on the East coast? If those 1:06:05.920 --> 1:06:08.160 it's smaller or is this mostly on the West coast? 1:06:08.160 --> 1:06:12.400 Candrather thing? Well that like that conspiratory thought we've seen 1:06:12.480 --> 1:06:14.600 kind of across the country, like on the East coast. 1:06:14.640 --> 1:06:17.160 You know, just recently we had people setting up their 1:06:17.200 --> 1:06:21.720 own version of checkpoints um as like a protest against 1:06:21.800 --> 1:06:26.320 the the public health measures and like the whole eastern 1:06:26.360 --> 1:06:30.120 part of Canada is in its own bubble right now. Um. 1:06:30.240 --> 1:06:34.760 But yeah, you had this the conspiracy based movement forming 1:06:34.760 --> 1:06:38.400 these actual checkpoints. And then the main part of it though, 1:06:38.560 --> 1:06:41.440 is probably going to be out west. That is where 1:06:41.480 --> 1:06:44.280 these ideas are the most popular or the most popular. 1:06:44.440 --> 1:06:48.840 That makes sense where mainstream politicians are moving towards, you know, 1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:52.400 amplify these type of talking points is do you see 1:06:52.440 --> 1:06:55.200 that like is that is it? Is that a mostly 1:06:55.240 --> 1:07:00.400 Alberta thing. It's mostly like Prairies Alberta the online. The 1:07:00.440 --> 1:07:02.360 interesting part is that when you talk about groups, is 1:07:02.400 --> 1:07:05.360 like in Canada, groups are an urban phenomenon. For the 1:07:05.400 --> 1:07:09.320 most part, most of our organization takes place around the 1:07:09.320 --> 1:07:12.360 city centers, and that is very different from the States. 1:07:12.400 --> 1:07:15.080 With the States, that's it's usually the usually the opposite 1:07:16.280 --> 1:07:19.000 in some there's there's always exceptions of two minament people live, 1:07:19.040 --> 1:07:20.640 but generally we see it as more of as more 1:07:20.640 --> 1:07:23.240 of a rule thing which troops organized, whereas cities are 1:07:23.280 --> 1:07:25.840 more like liberal and that's what the anti fascist groups 1:07:25.840 --> 1:07:28.960 are based UM. But it's kind of these like these 1:07:28.960 --> 1:07:31.920 little ideological pockets that exist all over and certainly that 1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:36.880 sentiment is probably shared, but the need to mobilize seems 1:07:36.920 --> 1:07:39.919 to mostly focus on the urban centers. And then we'd 1:07:40.000 --> 1:07:42.960 never have our groups. They don't providing any conveyed to 1:07:44.000 --> 1:07:47.160 that's just or even checkpoints like that's beyond these like 1:07:47.320 --> 1:07:50.160 very recent protest movements. You know, there has been no 1:07:50.360 --> 1:07:54.840 more forest fires around bc UM, around you know what 1:07:55.320 --> 1:07:59.160 Western Alberta UM. How do you see the government's was 1:07:59.240 --> 1:08:01.680 sponse as to things right now and it can do 1:08:01.720 --> 1:08:05.240 isn't in a particular situation with um, the Liberals having 1:08:05.240 --> 1:08:09.240 a minority control. M you know, the Canadian poems parliamentary 1:08:09.280 --> 1:08:11.080 system is probably confusing to let Americans that they don't 1:08:11.160 --> 1:08:14.280 understand it already. Um. But yeah, how how what do 1:08:14.320 --> 1:08:16.559 you what do you see on on that front? You know, 1:08:16.680 --> 1:08:18.960 you know, trust and true both both true down Biden 1:08:19.040 --> 1:08:21.360 talk the talk around like pipelines and stuff, but then 1:08:21.360 --> 1:08:23.840 do the complete opposite. Um, how do you could have 1:08:23.880 --> 1:08:25.640 seen this kind of stuff working right now? For for 1:08:25.720 --> 1:08:28.320 like on the on the climate side of things, Well, yeah, 1:08:28.320 --> 1:08:31.439 our our reaction to the firefighters or a reaction to 1:08:31.439 --> 1:08:34.639 the wildfires. Um. I mean the government response has always 1:08:34.640 --> 1:08:37.960 looked at on like, it's always looked at poorly. Um. 1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:39.760 But none of these people are taking this as an 1:08:39.760 --> 1:08:44.160 opportunity to kind of change minds and of do pr Um. 1:08:44.200 --> 1:08:48.360 There's much less reaction to it. Most like the West. Also, 1:08:48.520 --> 1:08:51.880 there's this incredible feeling of alienation because of the way 1:08:51.960 --> 1:08:56.760 that government is set up. They have substantially less they 1:08:56.760 --> 1:08:59.840 have substantially less voting power. Yeah, the same way the States. 1:08:59.840 --> 1:09:01.760 How you know, there's like there's accelering states or states 1:09:01.760 --> 1:09:03.160 in the Midwest, you feel like they don't really have 1:09:03.280 --> 1:09:06.040 any power politically. Same things for almost the entire East, 1:09:06.240 --> 1:09:09.000 entire West Coast of Canada, everything from like Manitoba to 1:09:09.000 --> 1:09:13.680 Alberta and parts of BC. Everyone is very frustrated at 1:09:14.080 --> 1:09:17.920 at at the at the federalise um and how they 1:09:18.000 --> 1:09:20.559 really don't have control for what's happening. Like, yeah, people 1:09:20.600 --> 1:09:23.200 in the East Coast are controlling and what what our 1:09:23.479 --> 1:09:25.680 what our pipelines are, what our minds are doing, and 1:09:25.720 --> 1:09:27.880 that does not fair to our workers, because yeah it is. 1:09:27.920 --> 1:09:30.840 It does suck when you know, a mind closes and 1:09:30.840 --> 1:09:32.920 then everyone in a small town is out of business, 1:09:32.960 --> 1:09:35.639 like the part the part right in Canada, Almoight, Stanley 1:09:35.680 --> 1:09:37.479 around them, you know, used to be you know, bustling 1:09:37.479 --> 1:09:40.320 small towns that are basically all all the ghost towns 1:09:40.680 --> 1:09:43.120 because stuff to close, people have to move to either 1:09:43.200 --> 1:09:48.160 like Calgary, Edmonton, Regina. Don't laugh, um, so you know 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:50.679 all all these specific things, you know, and we see 1:09:50.680 --> 1:09:55.640 pockets of this, we see pockets, we see pockets of this, 1:09:55.800 --> 1:10:01.080 and like the good Western the States definately. I also 1:10:01.280 --> 1:10:04.840 like manifest Destination because like they are a lot of 1:10:04.880 --> 1:10:07.800 it started with people kind of moving outward to try 1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:12.920 and gain more land and make their borders um larger 1:10:12.960 --> 1:10:17.360 and like live further out to like try and uh, 1:10:17.479 --> 1:10:20.120 I don't know, tom more territory um. And with the 1:10:21.640 --> 1:10:25.439 like Canadian big surgeon like indigenous riots and the big 1:10:25.479 --> 1:10:29.680 focus and shift to like sort of give them landback 1:10:29.800 --> 1:10:32.320 or something. I'm not exactly clear on what the Canadian 1:10:32.360 --> 1:10:35.720 stances are on that. Oh, just like I mean we 1:10:35.760 --> 1:10:39.040 have a big movement from indigenous populations to they seem 1:10:39.160 --> 1:10:42.120 very like the economent like, well, there's so many different 1:10:42.120 --> 1:10:45.160 bands and tribes in different types of nations, um, like 1:10:45.200 --> 1:10:47.920 we have unseated territory, and the dynamics with which the 1:10:47.960 --> 1:10:50.040 government is supposed to deal with and has agreed to 1:10:50.040 --> 1:10:52.960 deal with it actually does deal with them is all 1:10:53.120 --> 1:10:57.800 vastly different. Um. But yeah, that that idea of this 1:10:57.920 --> 1:11:01.640 focus on these particular issues, like indigenous issues, even our 1:11:01.640 --> 1:11:04.920 attempts to you know, have a greener economy you know 1:11:05.040 --> 1:11:07.400 for a place that for a long time and still 1:11:07.560 --> 1:11:11.960 is an extraction economy. Yes, Um, how does that like 1:11:12.280 --> 1:11:16.680 a fact an oil company with healthcare? More like extremist 1:11:16.720 --> 1:11:19.840 far right groups who want to move out that way, um, 1:11:19.880 --> 1:11:23.080 for the purpose of organizing. And you also have the 1:11:23.120 --> 1:11:26.680 indigenous focus within the liberal government. So like, how do 1:11:26.800 --> 1:11:31.600 those two groups do you think like interact? Uh? Like 1:11:31.640 --> 1:11:35.479 the general conception is that the push for indigenous rights, 1:11:35.720 --> 1:11:39.519 especially on the farther right is is for the dishent 1:11:39.520 --> 1:11:45.960 franchiisement of white Europeans like it is um. And then yeah, 1:11:45.960 --> 1:11:48.840 you do have this Western exodus where we have very 1:11:48.880 --> 1:11:52.840 popular figures who are moving further west because they are 1:11:52.880 --> 1:11:57.120 these stronger ideas of sovereignty. UM. I forget what exactly 1:11:57.240 --> 1:12:02.040 was pulling, but when the Western Eggs it was started, 1:12:02.479 --> 1:12:06.280 you know, there was a significant amount of popular or 1:12:06.320 --> 1:12:09.799 at least like not strong support, but like existing support 1:12:09.880 --> 1:12:11.600 there was there was there was a it was a 1:12:11.680 --> 1:12:14.840 large amount of support. Yeah. Absolutely, It'll be interesting to 1:12:14.880 --> 1:12:18.200 see what happens though, talking about collapse, like you know 1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:23.240 in these small towns, in like cloistered communities, um, you know, 1:12:23.280 --> 1:12:25.799 they already feel cut off from the government and not represented, 1:12:25.880 --> 1:12:28.600 and then if you have a breakdown of infrastructure, you 1:12:28.600 --> 1:12:30.599 know that will create why do we even have them 1:12:30.600 --> 1:12:32.679 in the first place if they're not helping us? Which 1:12:32.680 --> 1:12:34.519 is which which is true? Which is like a well, 1:12:34.600 --> 1:12:37.240 real thing to think about what their solutions are wildly 1:12:37.280 --> 1:12:40.360 different than the actual solutions to help people. And we've 1:12:40.360 --> 1:12:42.160 already see how this plays out in the past as 1:12:42.200 --> 1:12:47.760 well with UM, you know, places where uh, the infrastructure 1:12:47.760 --> 1:12:51.560 starts to break down and then people who have weapons 1:12:51.880 --> 1:12:55.040 kind of become the authority just based on the fact 1:12:55.120 --> 1:12:59.040 that they have more power. Yeah. So one of the 1:12:59.040 --> 1:13:01.360 things that I follow is a lot of kind of 1:13:01.400 --> 1:13:05.160 like the more let's characterize it as boom Er esque 1:13:05.160 --> 1:13:11.200 conspiracy theories, UM, especially with anti vax, anti public health 1:13:11.240 --> 1:13:15.840 measures type thing UM. And one of the things that 1:13:15.840 --> 1:13:20.479 that that really is noticeable to me is how much 1:13:20.479 --> 1:13:25.600 more sovereign citizen stuff is creeping up into those areas 1:13:26.240 --> 1:13:30.000 UM and especially you know, they're they're two really big 1:13:30.000 --> 1:13:33.080 examples of you know, if there's an anti vax protest 1:13:33.120 --> 1:13:35.720 in your city, it's probably one of these two networks 1:13:35.760 --> 1:13:38.599 that both come from Europe UM that I'm not going 1:13:38.640 --> 1:13:43.400 to name right now. UM. And those two networks also 1:13:44.000 --> 1:13:48.360 you know, love to organize over the messaging app Telegram UM, 1:13:48.400 --> 1:13:51.080 and Telegram is tell me if I'm stepping in it. 1:13:51.120 --> 1:13:54.280 I mean, Telegram is where you know, so much of 1:13:54.320 --> 1:13:57.679 this ideology this far right ideology is able to cross 1:13:57.680 --> 1:14:00.760 mix and co mingle um. You know, I we we 1:14:00.800 --> 1:14:04.000 talked about telegram from the pods. Okay, but people are familiar. Yeah, 1:14:04.000 --> 1:14:06.160 I have been stepped in it yet keep going, Yeah, 1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:11.439 adjacent to sting, but it's yeah, so so I mean, my, my, 1:14:12.240 --> 1:14:13.720 the biggest frame we're going to talk about this a 1:14:13.760 --> 1:14:16.519 lot is is telegram as kind of this technological body 1:14:16.600 --> 1:14:20.679 of the cultic milieum because there is so like basically 1:14:20.840 --> 1:14:24.800 no enforcement close to no enforcement on telegram and so 1:14:26.360 --> 1:14:28.519 you know, these these more malicious actors know that, and 1:14:28.520 --> 1:14:30.240 they know that they can find an audience who is 1:14:30.280 --> 1:14:34.280 interested in, you know, opposing the mainstream conspiratorial thought in 1:14:34.320 --> 1:14:37.680 these kind of like boomer tell boomers on Telegram and 1:14:37.720 --> 1:14:41.000 conspiracy groups, and there are you know, militious actors planning 1:14:41.040 --> 1:14:44.120 to go in and when these people over and you 1:14:44.160 --> 1:14:46.880 know a lot of these militious actors are younger people 1:14:46.920 --> 1:14:48.840 who don't have those resources, but they know that they 1:14:48.840 --> 1:14:51.400 can win over these people who do have resources, who 1:14:51.439 --> 1:14:54.120 own land, who have savings to kind of like fund 1:14:54.160 --> 1:14:56.840 that movement. If yeah, oh, I was just gonna say, 1:14:56.880 --> 1:14:58.960 I do think that the cultic miliuse like a really 1:14:59.000 --> 1:15:03.559 important here stick for these kind of collapse scenarios because 1:15:04.080 --> 1:15:07.559 the question of what happens when kind of infrastructure and 1:15:07.640 --> 1:15:10.800 any sort of political guidance falls away is governed a 1:15:10.920 --> 1:15:14.320 lot by that. And like this idea that there's there 1:15:14.320 --> 1:15:16.880 are these ideas floating around in our society and once 1:15:16.880 --> 1:15:20.120 people have nothing else turned to, these malicious actors will 1:15:20.160 --> 1:15:24.639 bring this stuff in and uh yeah, to put it simply, 1:15:24.680 --> 1:15:29.200 then we're pretty fucked. Yeah. Telegram also has recently started 1:15:29.520 --> 1:15:33.120 to have to crack down people and um because of that, 1:15:33.200 --> 1:15:35.800 you have this really interesting dichotomy of people who are saying, 1:15:35.840 --> 1:15:38.800 like this means like get ready, get prepared, go off, 1:15:38.840 --> 1:15:41.080 grig g gone, And you also have on the other 1:15:41.240 --> 1:15:43.880 end people who are saying, you know, create all type 1:15:43.920 --> 1:15:49.479 platforms and like create um more like self encryption and 1:15:50.800 --> 1:15:55.880 like hello, I'm trying not to step in right now. Yeah, 1:15:55.920 --> 1:16:00.519 I'm but to be able to to speak more peer 1:16:00.640 --> 1:16:05.840 like peer to peer resources. And that wraps up Part 1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:10.519 one of the Terrorism round Table discussion. Thanks so much 1:16:10.560 --> 1:16:13.080 for listening. You can find us at happen here, pod 1:16:13.200 --> 1:16:16.920 and cool Zone Media on all of the socials. Um, 1:16:16.960 --> 1:16:19.840 you can find me at Hungry bow Tie Um, and 1:16:19.880 --> 1:16:22.800 you can follow a decent amount of the researchers on 1:16:22.840 --> 1:16:26.200 their podcast at Terrorism Bad. The podcast I think. I 1:16:26.200 --> 1:16:29.960 think it's just at Terrorism Bad. Anyway, Thanks for listening 1:16:29.960 --> 1:16:37.439 to Part one. Part two drops tomorrow, Stay tuned, m 1:16:45.080 --> 1:16:48.120 Welcome to it could Happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. This 1:16:48.240 --> 1:16:52.360 is part two of our terrorism round table discussion. If 1:16:52.360 --> 1:16:54.400 you haven't listened to part one already, I would recommend 1:16:54.439 --> 1:16:57.280 you scroll back, listen to the previous episode and then 1:16:57.320 --> 1:17:00.120 continue on from here so you have kind of context 1:16:59.600 --> 1:17:02.920 to exactly we're talking about. Anyway, this is part two 1:17:03.080 --> 1:17:06.400 of our discussion in the Woods. I hope you enjoy. 1:17:08.040 --> 1:17:10.760 Something that we've talked about earlier this year after January six, 1:17:11.160 --> 1:17:14.519 was like should the government ban telegram? Right? That was 1:17:14.560 --> 1:17:16.080 the thing, And there's a lot of a lot of 1:17:16.200 --> 1:17:21.040 arguments are like no, absolutely not, and there's does it? 1:17:21.080 --> 1:17:22.320 Does anyone want to speak on that? Because you know, 1:17:22.360 --> 1:17:24.519 because like if I want to talk about the government's 1:17:24.560 --> 1:17:26.759 response to these things, you know that's a very government 1:17:26.880 --> 1:17:29.559 thing to do. Be like, oh, people are organizing this platform, 1:17:29.600 --> 1:17:32.479 get out of the platform problem gone, and that's not 1:17:32.479 --> 1:17:34.800 how that works. I mean one was talking that a 1:17:34.840 --> 1:17:39.000 little bit. Sure. Um, yeah, so they're getting rid of 1:17:39.040 --> 1:17:43.519 the platform doesn't necessarily help, especially when it's something that 1:17:43.640 --> 1:17:46.960 is important such as like you know, encrypted communication, which 1:17:46.960 --> 1:17:50.639 is something that more people than just Nazis need, um, 1:17:50.680 --> 1:17:53.240 and that resource should not be cut off. And there's 1:17:53.280 --> 1:17:55.519 also kind of a bad precedent to be said if 1:17:55.600 --> 1:17:59.200 the if the government is deciding which uh forms of 1:17:59.240 --> 1:18:01.719 speech it needs to have complete access to. I don't 1:18:01.880 --> 1:18:05.519 love that. Um. The other thing is that if we 1:18:05.600 --> 1:18:09.759 knew telegram, right, they don't disappear, they formed a networks. 1:18:09.800 --> 1:18:12.439 They're still there. Still, they have to do more things 1:18:12.479 --> 1:18:17.280 in person, still there, they're just harder to hard. People 1:18:17.320 --> 1:18:20.439 are absolutely corrected when they say D platforming works because 1:18:20.479 --> 1:18:22.639 it works for the platform, and a lot of people 1:18:22.760 --> 1:18:24.559 just want that. A lot of people just don't want 1:18:24.600 --> 1:18:26.519 to see Nazi ship and they're fine with you know, 1:18:26.640 --> 1:18:28.960 D platform and they say this works, and they have 1:18:29.040 --> 1:18:31.639 data to backup that it does work. But it works 1:18:31.800 --> 1:18:34.639 for the platform. But the people still exist, yeah, still 1:18:35.120 --> 1:18:38.759 boosting their own ship. And when they bring up building 1:18:38.800 --> 1:18:44.160 their own all tech platforms, it only works there early yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:18:44.280 --> 1:18:46.840 And there is elements that yeah, d platform is a 1:18:46.880 --> 1:18:49.240 wider thing can were especially for like in person stuff, 1:18:49.920 --> 1:18:52.080 but yeah, for your sort of the thing you're mentioning, yes, 1:18:52.160 --> 1:18:55.360 it is. It is definitely not not that cut and dry, 1:18:55.520 --> 1:18:58.360 you know. And telegrams really interesting because it is kind 1:18:58.360 --> 1:19:00.600 of this middle space between social media and just a 1:19:00.640 --> 1:19:04.599 messaging appease. The thing about it too, is that anybody 1:19:04.680 --> 1:19:07.080 can look at these you know, the public channels, so 1:19:07.240 --> 1:19:09.800 without without saying anything in the chat. So people could 1:19:09.800 --> 1:19:13.280 be kind of completely invisible. Nobody, like nobody knows that 1:19:13.360 --> 1:19:15.759 they're there. They're watching this stuff, and they're still getting 1:19:16.320 --> 1:19:20.040 the same messaging, they're still getting the same dates for protests, 1:19:20.080 --> 1:19:23.720 they're still like organizing. But they can be uh, sort 1:19:23.800 --> 1:19:26.800 of just subscribe to a channel and you don't even 1:19:26.800 --> 1:19:29.639 need to be subscribed, you can, yeah, just looking into 1:19:29.840 --> 1:19:33.360 and getting that flow of information without ever having like 1:19:33.560 --> 1:19:36.840 formal organizing so to speak. So it's really hard to 1:19:36.960 --> 1:19:41.280 say that, like, you know, these people planned this because 1:19:41.680 --> 1:19:45.120 there's a lot of plausible deniability and there's anybody was involved. 1:19:45.240 --> 1:19:47.639 There's so much easy hyper linking between groups and channels 1:19:47.920 --> 1:19:49.760 and everything, so it's so easy for someone to move 1:19:50.600 --> 1:19:53.280 between ideology and to go from kind of like the 1:19:53.360 --> 1:19:57.920 base level ship into the much deeper stuff extremely quick, 1:19:58.920 --> 1:20:01.800 very quick. Yeah, Actually, like well that's like that's good, 1:20:02.280 --> 1:20:04.840 and that's good for them. About Telegram is that you 1:20:05.000 --> 1:20:08.479 have all of the people that are vulnerable to let's say, 1:20:08.600 --> 1:20:14.400 new ideas in one place. Exactly, if you're trying to 1:20:14.439 --> 1:20:15.960 plan a collapse, you're going to need a lot more 1:20:16.040 --> 1:20:18.800 people than the numbers that the people who want the 1:20:18.840 --> 1:20:21.479 collapse actually have. So the easiest way to kind of 1:20:21.840 --> 1:20:24.960 move things along is desert inserting their ideas and their 1:20:25.040 --> 1:20:29.080 discourses and kind of altering the vibe of certain digital 1:20:29.200 --> 1:20:34.439 environments manually until they have um what we can kindly 1:20:34.520 --> 1:20:39.000 call cannon fodder, yeah, or even starting their own and 1:20:39.160 --> 1:20:42.680 saying like, you know, this is a mega platform and 1:20:42.880 --> 1:20:45.600 it's actually just you know, a bunch of bunch of 1:20:45.680 --> 1:20:49.759 acceleration ast Tomdad to recruit them because they saw attempts 1:20:49.800 --> 1:20:51.479 of this with like Q and on. It's people who 1:20:51.520 --> 1:20:55.479 are way more excelation is trying to use extreme It 1:20:55.600 --> 1:21:01.599 was successful. People die, You're mean that. And then also 1:21:01.640 --> 1:21:03.840 you've got like like the idea of the boogaloo, right 1:21:03.920 --> 1:21:07.400 that's being co opted to try to appeal to leftists, 1:21:07.520 --> 1:21:09.400 And I mean there's a really good article by Left 1:21:09.439 --> 1:21:11.599 Coast Right Watch that goes into one of those chats 1:21:11.640 --> 1:21:13.760 and they're basically like, yeah, really try to push these 1:21:13.840 --> 1:21:16.559 ideas of really try to push talking points like black 1:21:16.640 --> 1:21:18.400 lives matter and all this. We want to get these 1:21:18.640 --> 1:21:22.439 protesters on our side. And then you also have um, 1:21:22.720 --> 1:21:26.760 some blatant like white supremacist groups who are all using 1:21:26.760 --> 1:21:28.920 the boogaloos, And how much of that too is like 1:21:29.160 --> 1:21:33.640 how much that is sort of real genuine like I 1:21:33.760 --> 1:21:36.120 am not racist, I believe in black lives matter, Like 1:21:36.320 --> 1:21:38.880 I want to be part of this even though I'm 1:21:38.880 --> 1:21:41.920 a bog or Like how much of it also is 1:21:42.200 --> 1:21:44.240 um kind of reminiscent of what we were talking about 1:21:44.280 --> 1:21:45.600 us and I also don't want stuff in it. But 1:21:45.760 --> 1:21:49.200 like with you know, the idea of from Anson of 1:21:49.320 --> 1:21:52.639 like Helter Skelter and like causing that race where it's 1:21:52.680 --> 1:21:54.800 like they what they would do is like try and 1:21:54.960 --> 1:21:57.240 frame black people for it and say like this was 1:21:57.479 --> 1:22:00.560 you know, yeah, I like that. How much of it 1:22:00.760 --> 1:22:03.720 is saying like this is black lives matter and they 1:22:03.760 --> 1:22:07.040 want people to see that after they do the boogleoo 1:22:07.040 --> 1:22:09.439 groups that showed up in Portland in January in July 1:22:10.960 --> 1:22:13.679 when the particular heads were happening. Now that they showed 1:22:13.760 --> 1:22:15.599 up and we're all like, yeah, we're here to support 1:22:15.640 --> 1:22:18.400 black Lives matter and stand against the federal government and stuff. Um. 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:22.120 And they had some very suspicious patches that it took me, 1:22:22.479 --> 1:22:24.400 took me about a year to figure out what they were. 1:22:24.680 --> 1:22:28.040 And it's like this accelerationist like, um, it ties into 1:22:28.040 --> 1:22:30.639 a whole bunch of like eco fascist propaganda stuff. Um. 1:22:30.920 --> 1:22:33.679 And yeah, it's like they're they're saying these things, well 1:22:33.720 --> 1:22:37.360 they have these very obscure patches, um. And yeah, this 1:22:37.439 --> 1:22:41.000 is an important reason why we need people who are 1:22:41.200 --> 1:22:43.720 not very smart, like I will say, Jimmy dor who 1:22:43.760 --> 1:22:46.400 puts these gives these people platforms are some of the 1:22:46.520 --> 1:22:48.400 worst and are going to cause a lot of problems 1:22:48.800 --> 1:22:50.720 because they have no idea what they're doing or they 1:22:50.760 --> 1:22:53.400 know what they're doing, and they're just bad. And like 1:22:53.720 --> 1:22:56.360 that Boogle who think kind of serves a twofold purpose 1:22:56.560 --> 1:23:00.240 in that you can bring people who stud to defy 1:23:00.280 --> 1:23:02.920 his leftists into the movement, but you also have a 1:23:03.040 --> 1:23:06.840 really good scapegoat for like actual Actually that was a 1:23:06.880 --> 1:23:09.719 big thing that we saw in Minneapolis when things first 1:23:09.800 --> 1:23:13.360 popped off and like precently was getting burned down, and 1:23:13.680 --> 1:23:16.200 suddenly people on the internet start losing their minds about 1:23:16.280 --> 1:23:23.880 the Umbrella guys. And there was a guy who was indicted. 1:23:24.040 --> 1:23:25.920 He was a boo boo boy who was indicted for 1:23:26.920 --> 1:23:29.479 um like headlines said, burning down the precinct. He fired 1:23:29.520 --> 1:23:32.080 a weapon and he fired a gun on like near 1:23:32.200 --> 1:23:35.479 the wall exactly, And so that at the same time 1:23:35.560 --> 1:23:38.679 takes away agency from left wing movement and the States 1:23:38.720 --> 1:23:41.000 able to be like, look, see, it's just it's okay 1:23:41.040 --> 1:23:42.960 to crack down on them because they're all, you know, 1:23:43.520 --> 1:23:46.560 wild white supremacists exactly. Just from any autonomous movie with 1:23:46.600 --> 1:23:48.400 the forms of the people in the community that isn't 1:23:48.680 --> 1:23:51.120 that we wouldn't necessarily for to his leftists just piste 1:23:51.120 --> 1:23:52.840 off people. I mean, that's what we saw in every 1:23:52.880 --> 1:23:56.519 single you know, everybody, the young kids who are fucking 1:23:56.560 --> 1:23:58.600 piste off and are going to go smash it. And 1:23:58.680 --> 1:24:01.040 it's like saying all of people from outside of the 1:24:01.080 --> 1:24:04.920 town where it's like, yeah, it's a tale as old 1:24:04.960 --> 1:24:07.760 as time, Like outside agitator has been used since before this. 1:24:07.920 --> 1:24:10.960 It's a very old state talking point. Yeah, are you 1:24:10.960 --> 1:24:14.320 going to say that, Um yeah, I was gonna say Also, 1:24:15.160 --> 1:24:17.320 it's somewhat related to that we're talking about using like 1:24:17.439 --> 1:24:20.040 human on his cannon fodder and also ties into the 1:24:20.320 --> 1:24:23.920 sab sit conversation we're having. So my research I special 1:24:24.040 --> 1:24:27.800 are not specialized. I focus on Christian identity, this white 1:24:27.840 --> 1:24:31.600 supremacist ideology and how specifically how it's grown since the 1:24:31.720 --> 1:24:34.920 nineties until now through like the Internet and all that 1:24:35.000 --> 1:24:38.720 fun stuff. This whole point they've been pushing lately is 1:24:38.880 --> 1:24:43.360 to like there this with Christian identity. The whole thing 1:24:43.479 --> 1:24:46.519 is they are preparing for the apocalypse, which they call 1:24:46.560 --> 1:24:51.200 the tribulations, and they see modern see I folks see 1:24:51.240 --> 1:24:53.880 the boogaloo as like the tribulation that's coming. So what 1:24:53.960 --> 1:24:56.880 they're trying to do is go off grid and really 1:24:56.920 --> 1:25:00.200 try to like establish this new land or like to 1:25:00.240 --> 1:25:02.320 protect their kids and everything from like pollution and all 1:25:02.320 --> 1:25:05.719 that ship but also to be away from the collapse 1:25:05.760 --> 1:25:08.639 and be able to start buy it. And then while 1:25:08.680 --> 1:25:11.479 they're doing all that, like prepping homesteads and the compounds 1:25:11.479 --> 1:25:16.680 and stuff, they're also like pushing like election fraud conspiracies 1:25:17.280 --> 1:25:18.720 and all that on like Q and on in the 1:25:18.760 --> 1:25:21.559 maggot crowd, not because they believe it, not because yeah right, 1:25:21.560 --> 1:25:23.200 they don't believe it. They know it's bullshit, but they 1:25:23.439 --> 1:25:27.240 can use it to accelerate collapse, just like January say, yes, 1:25:27.479 --> 1:25:29.719 so exactly, I mean when I mean, there are groups 1:25:29.840 --> 1:25:34.120 when Joe Biden won the presidency or won the election, whatever, 1:25:35.720 --> 1:25:37.920 some groups being like, yeah, I really try to push 1:25:38.000 --> 1:25:40.960 this theory of this conspiracy about election fraud, even if 1:25:41.000 --> 1:25:42.519 you even if you don't believe in it, just push 1:25:42.600 --> 1:25:46.360 it because that helps our cause. And that's that's something 1:25:46.400 --> 1:25:50.559 to be really mindful of too. I forgot where else 1:25:50.560 --> 1:25:52.160 I was going with that. Well, yeah, a lot of 1:25:52.240 --> 1:25:54.920 them don't mean what they say. They'll say things that 1:25:55.040 --> 1:25:59.519 will push other people to do something that they don't 1:25:59.560 --> 1:26:01.320 necessary really want to do. And that's a lot of 1:26:01.479 --> 1:26:05.360 a lot of like during January six, so much excitement 1:26:05.400 --> 1:26:07.720 because they could see that the Q and on crowd 1:26:07.760 --> 1:26:11.000 are actually mobilizing, and so they said to them, like 1:26:11.160 --> 1:26:16.280 to themselves, like, you know, get them, get the mobilizing 1:26:16.920 --> 1:26:19.640 for the white race, get the mobilizing for you know, 1:26:20.120 --> 1:26:26.360 our cause. And they've really successfully been able to infiltrate 1:26:26.479 --> 1:26:30.599 that and be able to get some people on board 1:26:30.640 --> 1:26:33.799 with some of it just based on using their rhetoric. Yeah, 1:26:33.920 --> 1:26:36.680 I know, I talked about this on our podcast, but 1:26:37.200 --> 1:26:40.080 you could see it, like I reported on January six 1:26:40.200 --> 1:26:43.040 in person, and like you could watch it happen. Someone 1:26:43.080 --> 1:26:46.479 with a skull mask on or proud boy or an 1:26:46.479 --> 1:26:50.880 oathkeeper would literally come back from the police line, grab 1:26:50.920 --> 1:26:53.760 a group of people, yell something at them about que 1:26:53.800 --> 1:26:56.080 and On or the storms upon us, and throw them 1:26:56.160 --> 1:26:58.439 up to that riot line until they got did a 1:26:58.479 --> 1:27:01.320 really good did really good vision investigation of how those 1:27:01.360 --> 1:27:04.160 extremist cubes used mega people in q and On people 1:27:04.479 --> 1:27:07.800 as their foot soldiers. Qua a folk que didn't really 1:27:07.800 --> 1:27:11.960 can break down their mus podcast. Yeah, but it's also 1:27:12.439 --> 1:27:15.160 with I mean not to link everything the Christian identity, 1:27:15.200 --> 1:27:17.439 which I have a tendency to do, but it's it's 1:27:17.600 --> 1:27:21.200 very ideologically similar to Q and On, like from a 1:27:21.640 --> 1:27:23.960 Christianity point of view, like that's quan On is like 1:27:24.640 --> 1:27:28.000 so close to the edge of Christian identity. It's very scary. Actually, 1:27:28.000 --> 1:27:31.559 I talked about it on Jake hammer Hens Q Clarence podcast. 1:27:31.680 --> 1:27:36.240 But it there's also like not only trying to accelerate 1:27:36.320 --> 1:27:39.080 things through them, but also trying to recruit them through 1:27:39.200 --> 1:27:41.600 these like very very similar talking points about like the 1:27:41.640 --> 1:27:44.679 Synagogue of Satan and all that, saying that Christian identity 1:27:44.800 --> 1:27:46.439 is an entry point for some of them. Some of 1:27:46.479 --> 1:27:50.800 them bring it up as an entry point into further 1:27:51.000 --> 1:27:55.640 like accelerationist Nazi ship. But like they will start with 1:27:56.080 --> 1:27:58.800 Christian identity because I think that it's more pactual to 1:27:59.000 --> 1:28:01.960 people who already believe and on. Yeah exactly. I mean, 1:28:02.240 --> 1:28:04.280 like Will was saying, these there's a lot of this 1:28:04.360 --> 1:28:08.040 comes from these kind of boomer conspiracies and anti vax groups, 1:28:08.040 --> 1:28:09.680 and you're not going to be able to get you know, 1:28:10.040 --> 1:28:12.880 memon pap pap into like wotonism or something like that, 1:28:13.200 --> 1:28:16.880 if you try hard enough, you can't. But like Christianity 1:28:16.920 --> 1:28:18.920 is something that's palatable, it's something that's normal to them, 1:28:19.040 --> 1:28:21.479 and as you can kind of slowly tweak it through 1:28:21.520 --> 1:28:23.280 to it on, you can get them to this much 1:28:23.320 --> 1:28:25.640 wark stream. Oh yeah, talk about Christian identity. I think 1:28:25.680 --> 1:28:29.679 we should, like maybe Matt, you could define it Christian identity. 1:28:29.760 --> 1:28:33.160 It's this radical offshoot of Christianity that sees all white 1:28:33.240 --> 1:28:36.680 people as the true Israelites from the Bible um. And 1:28:36.800 --> 1:28:40.679 they also think Jewish people are all literally the spawn 1:28:40.720 --> 1:28:44.280 of Satan. There's this really dumb theory they came up 1:28:44.320 --> 1:28:46.280 with and like kind of rewrote the whole Bible off 1:28:46.360 --> 1:28:50.439 of called can I name n z okay okay dual 1:28:50.520 --> 1:28:52.840 seed line theory where they say, like the story if 1:28:52.880 --> 1:28:56.479 you know about uh, like Adam and even all that 1:28:57.200 --> 1:29:01.519 they had can enabled. Right, So they see, um Kane 1:29:02.439 --> 1:29:05.479 was the offspring of Eve and the devil and he 1:29:05.760 --> 1:29:08.240 was literally the spawn of Satan and then he intermingled 1:29:08.280 --> 1:29:10.720 with all these races that were there before Adam and 1:29:10.800 --> 1:29:14.360 Eve and created this demonic race. And it's really really 1:29:14.640 --> 1:29:18.640 fucking dumb, but it's still here. It's been here for 1:29:19.160 --> 1:29:23.759 tone's probably gonna keep going. It's gonna get worse calling 1:29:23.840 --> 1:29:27.760 it now, it's gonna get worse. Yeah, but uh, And 1:29:27.960 --> 1:29:30.600 the whole thing is they essentially like worship like a 1:29:30.680 --> 1:29:35.599 Nazi Jesus. They see Jesus only was really only talking 1:29:35.640 --> 1:29:38.679 to the white race, and that Christianity and like God 1:29:38.800 --> 1:29:42.080 only is able to be perceived by the white race. 1:29:42.200 --> 1:29:44.479 And before you start laughing at people, because yes it 1:29:44.560 --> 1:29:46.840 does sound very silly, keep in mind that these are 1:29:46.920 --> 1:29:50.559 extremely dangerous, Like, right, this is this is one problem 1:29:50.560 --> 1:29:52.519 with two and on when liberals just start laughing about 1:29:52.560 --> 1:29:54.320 how crazy it is, and then they're so surprised at 1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:58.400 January six, we're like no, no, like it's yeah, like 1:29:58.479 --> 1:30:03.720 they're actually dangerous. Yeah, he's mentioned in a lot and 1:30:03.800 --> 1:30:07.000 he's chricially that has been mentioned in various manifestoes linked 1:30:07.040 --> 1:30:13.439 to you has warned very like organized, like I mean 1:30:14.280 --> 1:30:18.160 historically a big part of like with Christian identity with 1:30:18.200 --> 1:30:20.519 a lot of these kind of like a lot of 1:30:20.600 --> 1:30:24.800 them based their like whole historical context of like arianism 1:30:25.320 --> 1:30:30.000 on this rewriting of history based on UM a fake 1:30:30.120 --> 1:30:35.439 study that was done in Nazi Germany about uh where 1:30:35.920 --> 1:30:39.920 some proto Indo European languages came from. And so they 1:30:40.000 --> 1:30:44.120 believe that like white people came from uh an area 1:30:44.240 --> 1:30:47.080 that's you know, you could generally say it's sort of 1:30:47.200 --> 1:30:51.680 near the Black Sea. UM, and that it's based on 1:30:51.760 --> 1:30:57.240 this like strange idea that like Sanskrit is not the 1:30:57.479 --> 1:31:03.120 oldest language, but like are you pointing the gun at 1:31:03.160 --> 1:31:11.719 me because I'm stepping in you, I think it actually 1:31:11.760 --> 1:31:18.200 is useful and yeah, there there is actual They really 1:31:18.280 --> 1:31:20.880 tried to push this. They made UM a lot of 1:31:21.120 --> 1:31:24.080 fake studies that you could spend a lot of time 1:31:24.320 --> 1:31:28.120 researching this and believe that it's true, um, because there's 1:31:28.320 --> 1:31:30.680 just so much written about it. And I think this 1:31:30.840 --> 1:31:32.600 is like a tactic that they really tend to do 1:31:32.680 --> 1:31:37.439 with historical revisionism allat is just crank out essay after essay, 1:31:37.600 --> 1:31:40.759 even if it's wrong, even if it's totally like based 1:31:40.840 --> 1:31:45.040 on false data or just skew data. If they don't care, 1:31:45.120 --> 1:31:47.400 they just write about it, and that they think that 1:31:47.520 --> 1:31:50.639 like having more written about it makes it more legitimate. 1:31:50.800 --> 1:31:52.840 And if that's what we are talking have been talking 1:31:52.880 --> 1:31:57.240 about this this whole time we've been not recording, is 1:31:57.680 --> 1:32:00.240 there's just an overflow of content that is so easy 1:32:01.040 --> 1:32:04.599 to access, you know, not necessarily from these specificers they're 1:32:04.600 --> 1:32:10.000 talking about, just from the further right. In general, I 1:32:10.200 --> 1:32:12.720 just overflow the content. It's like always the top ship 1:32:12.840 --> 1:32:16.320 on Facebook. To give an idea of how pervasive even 1:32:16.479 --> 1:32:19.360 that idea of like where Indo European languages came from, 1:32:19.560 --> 1:32:21.479 Like when I still went to college, I took the 1:32:21.520 --> 1:32:23.920 Religions of South Asia course and we had to spend 1:32:24.040 --> 1:32:27.880 like multiple days where a professor went through these myths 1:32:28.000 --> 1:32:32.840 about like what was the Arian invasion, which like was 1:32:33.800 --> 1:32:38.080 there are arian people that that is a thing historically, Yes, 1:32:38.240 --> 1:32:41.439 they're not white people, but like going through a definition 1:32:41.439 --> 1:32:44.920 of white people. Sure, based on language, they think of 1:32:45.040 --> 1:32:51.000 arianism as like referring to a linguistic pattern. Yeah, but 1:32:51.120 --> 1:32:53.680 like in a university course, we still had to go 1:32:53.880 --> 1:32:56.920 through and like debunk these myths because they've gotten so 1:32:57.160 --> 1:33:00.599 pervasive within the culture. Yeah. And another thing I want 1:33:00.640 --> 1:33:05.360 to say is that kind of these more entry level 1:33:05.760 --> 1:33:11.439 conspiracy ideas, it is hard to over emphasize how small 1:33:11.600 --> 1:33:14.680 the spaces between the entry level stuff and the much 1:33:14.720 --> 1:33:18.599 harder stuff. It can happen extremely extremely you know, I'll 1:33:18.600 --> 1:33:20.439 give I'll give an example. I went to you know, 1:33:20.520 --> 1:33:24.720 I was reporting on an anti vax protest and they 1:33:24.880 --> 1:33:28.080 went straight into talking about New World Order and and 1:33:28.400 --> 1:33:31.080 Project locks, Lockstep and and the raw Childs and the 1:33:31.120 --> 1:33:34.479 Builderers and like the Sabbatines and David Ice ship just 1:33:34.720 --> 1:33:36.479 me and this is this is the middle of the day, 1:33:36.640 --> 1:33:39.080 and like a metropolitan area with a bunch of boomers 1:33:39.120 --> 1:33:43.120 and trump Paths who are getting this like hardcore ship 1:33:43.560 --> 1:33:46.240 pumped at them where you uh, we shall sell that 1:33:46.320 --> 1:33:48.519 a lot with the national bombing too, like immediately it 1:33:48.640 --> 1:33:50.959 was like, oh, it was actually an attack on dominion, 1:33:51.240 --> 1:33:55.560 and also it was orchestrated by the roths Childs to 1:33:55.880 --> 1:33:58.840 destroy evidence of voter I forgot that that and then 1:33:58.840 --> 1:34:00.320 also there as a whole like there a bunch of 1:34:00.320 --> 1:34:02.160 stuff that came up later is a big conspiracy that 1:34:02.160 --> 1:34:03.880 it was actually a missile strike. I had to talk 1:34:04.040 --> 1:34:08.680 my grandpa down from that. There was a video that 1:34:08.720 --> 1:34:11.040 circulated for a while about that. I had to get 1:34:11.120 --> 1:34:13.760 into a conversation with my grandpa, but at the time 1:34:13.880 --> 1:34:19.120 was super isolated because of COVID and that's a whole yeah, 1:34:19.160 --> 1:34:20.920 And I had to like talk him down and show 1:34:21.040 --> 1:34:23.840 him like, no, here's uh, here's a video from somebody 1:34:23.840 --> 1:34:25.479 I knew who was like somewhat in the area and 1:34:25.560 --> 1:34:28.120 saw the explosion and like, and there was not a 1:34:28.280 --> 1:34:32.720 missile anywhere. They One of the data studies that I've 1:34:32.800 --> 1:34:36.719 done is UM and worked on is using big pool 1:34:36.760 --> 1:34:41.320 and small pool discord servers of far right extremists UM, 1:34:41.600 --> 1:34:46.639 far right militia groups and UM very very accelerationist skull 1:34:46.760 --> 1:34:50.719 mass that network UM and looking at the big pools 1:34:50.720 --> 1:34:55.000 and the small pools and seeing the app mentioned between them. Yeah, 1:34:55.840 --> 1:34:59.840 and there was not one person who was more than 1:35:00.040 --> 1:35:04.000 three nodes away from anybody else. So it's very it 1:35:04.120 --> 1:35:07.800 can't be overstated how close people are from entry to 1:35:08.960 --> 1:35:16.439 very very very extreme h types of goals and andy 1:35:16.520 --> 1:35:20.360 explicit ideologies that explicitly pushed violence. And you know, another 1:35:20.400 --> 1:35:23.479 point I want to bring up is um like, yeah, 1:35:23.720 --> 1:35:26.200 there's been much said about Qunan isn't going away, It's 1:35:26.200 --> 1:35:28.920 just not called qun On anymore. Um with with these 1:35:28.960 --> 1:35:34.519 anti vax mobilizations, those mobilizations and groups aren't going away. 1:35:34.560 --> 1:35:36.920 They're just going to continue to shift in evolve their focus. 1:35:37.160 --> 1:35:41.679 And the networks say they're planning for it like they've 1:35:42.439 --> 1:35:47.120 they've they've they've designed it that way. So I sometimes 1:35:47.160 --> 1:35:49.479 I find the normal stuff first, sometimes I find the 1:35:49.560 --> 1:35:53.120 crazy stuff first. But I mean, not even that long ago, 1:35:53.360 --> 1:35:56.160 I came across a particular social media profile but was 1:35:56.400 --> 1:35:58.960 explicitly calling for acts of terror and attempting to organize 1:35:58.960 --> 1:36:01.040 act of terror, displaying ACCEP tear, which is like an 1:36:01.080 --> 1:36:04.240 immediate problem that needs to be dealt with. However, they 1:36:04.280 --> 1:36:08.040 had multiple alternate accounts that you follow that path, and 1:36:08.160 --> 1:36:11.439 on their other accounts they're sharing like Tucker Carlson stuff 1:36:11.840 --> 1:36:14.640 like things that your grandparents are going to watch right like, 1:36:14.880 --> 1:36:17.439 and that is done on purpose to try to like 1:36:17.720 --> 1:36:23.040 siphon people out of um more quote unquote mainstream versions 1:36:23.160 --> 1:36:27.360 of like conspiratorial thinking directly into like you should start 1:36:27.439 --> 1:36:30.720 exploding things, and even even more even more let's say, 1:36:30.760 --> 1:36:34.599 left of center conspiracy thinking ties into this what does 1:36:34.880 --> 1:36:38.400 and it's not. You know, conspiracy theories are not solely 1:36:38.439 --> 1:36:41.519 a thing of the right, which which pass me off 1:36:41.560 --> 1:36:44.680 to no end. No, I just want to back you 1:36:44.760 --> 1:36:46.600 up on that, Like I think there's this maybe this 1:36:46.720 --> 1:36:50.280 like implicit idea that the left is immune to conspiracy theories, 1:36:50.320 --> 1:36:58.080 when it very much is. Yeah, I just wanted to 1:36:58.160 --> 1:37:01.320 emphasize that point that I yet though of like never 1:37:01.439 --> 1:37:04.800 being that far from the serious stuff is something that's 1:37:05.120 --> 1:37:09.760 really really observable, even beyond like a data level. I 1:37:09.960 --> 1:37:12.640 I used to like consult with local newsrooms on how 1:37:12.720 --> 1:37:15.240 to report on things, and one of the big points 1:37:15.240 --> 1:37:17.320 I always tried to drill in was like, if you 1:37:17.680 --> 1:37:20.679 fuck this up and you frame this the wrong way, 1:37:21.080 --> 1:37:24.519 it will have consequences. And if this is stepping in 1:37:24.600 --> 1:37:30.040 it too much, we can cut But like the um 1:37:31.160 --> 1:37:35.519 Dylan Roof Dylan Roof started his journey to radicalization by 1:37:36.000 --> 1:37:42.240 reading about Trayvon Martin in local news websites and local 1:37:42.280 --> 1:37:46.760 newspapers and then googling black on white crime and his 1:37:46.880 --> 1:37:53.360 first result comes up exactly and like it does not. 1:37:53.680 --> 1:37:57.280 It did not take long for him to go from 1:37:57.680 --> 1:38:00.479 I am reading local news articles that are framed this 1:38:00.600 --> 1:38:06.400 specific way to I am killing people. That's not normal, 1:38:06.600 --> 1:38:08.240 of course, like a lot of people are not going 1:38:08.320 --> 1:38:10.880 to be reading local news and then suddenly start to 1:38:10.920 --> 1:38:13.799 think this way, but like there is a concerted effort 1:38:14.240 --> 1:38:20.559 by some very specific people who would like to make 1:38:20.680 --> 1:38:27.200 that pathway easier. It's well, it's interesting because we don't 1:38:27.680 --> 1:38:30.040 we can't like define it really as terrorism. What are 1:38:30.040 --> 1:38:33.200 they doing. They're really just they're just saying things. They're 1:38:33.240 --> 1:38:36.040 just encouraging people to do things, and like they're not, 1:38:37.439 --> 1:38:40.080 like they're not doing anything wrong. We can't really call 1:38:40.160 --> 1:38:43.280 it terrorism. The most dangerous people in this game are 1:38:43.400 --> 1:38:47.160 usually not the ones doing the shooting, people behind the 1:38:47.200 --> 1:38:49.559 scenes trying to go on these paths in the first 1:38:49.720 --> 1:38:51.680 looking for people who are willing and then so they 1:38:51.760 --> 1:38:55.320 see somebody reading local news maybe and they want to 1:38:55.360 --> 1:38:57.760 make that pathway easier. For to go from local news 1:38:57.840 --> 1:39:01.040 and Dylan Roof like because that's not a normal jump. 1:39:01.720 --> 1:39:05.439 But they really want to find people who are looking 1:39:05.479 --> 1:39:08.400 at local news like that and then say to them like, well, okay, 1:39:08.479 --> 1:39:10.280 you look at this, now look at that trying to 1:39:10.320 --> 1:39:12.600 try respect to climate change. How do you see do 1:39:12.680 --> 1:39:15.000 you see a similar pathway instead of instead of someone 1:39:15.080 --> 1:39:18.599 googling no black white crime, like googling stuff about collapse 1:39:18.640 --> 1:39:23.280 and and like modern motion. Eric Stryker, I don't know. 1:39:23.640 --> 1:39:26.000 Eric Striker has been on about this, and I think 1:39:26.040 --> 1:39:30.680 that he's a i mean relatively like middle point that 1:39:30.760 --> 1:39:36.080 people get to like fairly like average people do listen 1:39:36.360 --> 1:39:41.559 to things like Eric Stryker entry level explicit Nazi. Yeah. 1:39:42.160 --> 1:39:45.120 And another thing, cut me off if we don't want 1:39:45.120 --> 1:39:48.280 to go in this direction. But you know, one of 1:39:48.360 --> 1:39:51.360 the biggest places where we see young people getting into 1:39:51.360 --> 1:40:03.000 conspiracy theories is TikTok alright, TikTok cut that cut that 1:40:03.160 --> 1:40:05.200 cut that we're not we're not cutting that. That is 1:40:05.479 --> 1:40:08.719 that is with the pod. Yeah. I mean, the biggest 1:40:08.840 --> 1:40:12.960 entry points I've seen for a lot of things remains crisis. Yeah. 1:40:14.360 --> 1:40:18.080 And the thing is this, our upcoming climate scenario is 1:40:18.080 --> 1:40:21.439 going to give people an easier jumping on point. Well, yeah, 1:40:21.520 --> 1:40:23.240 that's so. I mean we were talking about how like 1:40:23.800 --> 1:40:27.240 the mythology of like like black on white crime and 1:40:27.280 --> 1:40:30.120 all this stuff. They're trying to create a situation that, 1:40:30.400 --> 1:40:33.880 you know, with the urgency that justifies fascism, which on 1:40:33.960 --> 1:40:38.000 its own is unjustifiable and ridiculous. But when there's a crisis, 1:40:38.960 --> 1:40:41.960 climate change is the existential threat that they've been trying 1:40:42.000 --> 1:40:44.559 to artificially create, and they no longer have to. They 1:40:44.600 --> 1:40:46.439 now get to skip a lot of steps and save 1:40:46.439 --> 1:40:48.200 a lot of energy by just planting at the fact 1:40:48.240 --> 1:40:52.720 that everything is literally on fire and that like that 1:40:53.240 --> 1:40:55.680 that makes it so much quicker. State, we have to 1:40:55.800 --> 1:40:59.920 do something. We have all the guns. Now would be 1:41:00.200 --> 1:41:03.240 great time to join it in our power. This kid, 1:41:03.479 --> 1:41:06.479 this this is our Mr Era hyper inflation type ship. 1:41:06.920 --> 1:41:10.639 I mean, this is like when you're when you can't 1:41:10.920 --> 1:41:14.200 get food from the grocery store anymore because of supply 1:41:14.320 --> 1:41:16.559 chain problems, or when everything around you is on fire. 1:41:16.920 --> 1:41:18.680 You don't need like a grace, you don't need a 1:41:18.720 --> 1:41:21.120 great replacement theory. No, you don't need anything. You don't 1:41:21.160 --> 1:41:25.160 need to say that the Rothchilds are behind you. You 1:41:25.280 --> 1:41:27.320 haven't just need to wait, you have you have enough 1:41:27.400 --> 1:41:31.000 things that you experience yourself, and it's much scarier when 1:41:31.240 --> 1:41:33.920 you can't because I can't, Like like how do we 1:41:34.000 --> 1:41:37.800 how do we stop? Yeah? I can't. It's hard. It's 1:41:37.880 --> 1:41:40.720 literally on fire. It's it's a problem and something needs 1:41:40.720 --> 1:41:42.639 to be done about it. I don't like your solution, 1:41:43.160 --> 1:41:46.120 but something needs to happen. So what what what do 1:41:46.160 --> 1:41:48.120 you think on this path? And this is gonna get 1:41:48.120 --> 1:41:50.280 a whole lot more speculative, but like, what can we 1:41:50.320 --> 1:41:54.000 do to make people falling down those pathways less often? 1:41:54.080 --> 1:41:58.519 Like like, yes, that is that, that's that's one of 1:41:58.520 --> 1:41:59.880 the things that we're trying to do on the PA 1:42:00.240 --> 1:42:02.439 is making sure that people do not fall full down 1:42:02.560 --> 1:42:05.519 the the doom or path because yeah, this that that 1:42:05.640 --> 1:42:11.760 does get people along down em like against like like 1:42:11.880 --> 1:42:16.080 against most types of extremism. Eco extremism is mostly logical. 1:42:16.240 --> 1:42:17.760 Like you look at it and you say, we need 1:42:17.840 --> 1:42:23.400 a radical change right now, and that's correct. Um, it's 1:42:23.439 --> 1:42:25.280 just the way that they go about it is very 1:42:25.400 --> 1:42:27.760 very different, and that's why, like you know, eco fascism 1:42:27.880 --> 1:42:30.440 is very different. It's its own type of eco extremism, 1:42:30.560 --> 1:42:33.479 and there's in green anarchy, that's a very different type 1:42:33.520 --> 1:42:37.840 of eco extremism. Like these are all different parts of 1:42:38.680 --> 1:42:41.640 something that almost has the same goals but wants to 1:42:41.720 --> 1:42:44.560 go about them very very very differently. And it's so 1:42:44.720 --> 1:42:47.000 easy to just look around and see how everything's on 1:42:47.120 --> 1:42:49.880 fire and think like the government's doing nothing about it. 1:42:50.000 --> 1:42:52.200 The government starts doing something about it, and then suddenly 1:42:52.240 --> 1:42:55.080 it's the state's two bigs were in communism, you know. 1:42:55.439 --> 1:42:58.320 So they all of like different goals and it's very 1:42:58.400 --> 1:43:00.560 conflicting on how to how to deal with and like 1:43:01.160 --> 1:43:05.519 even the very different tactics between green anarchy and like 1:43:05.600 --> 1:43:09.280 fascistic you extremism, they also will get two different endicals, right, 1:43:09.360 --> 1:43:12.800 like you like your your basic amprim what's a very 1:43:12.880 --> 1:43:16.120 different life than you're you know, very you know, very 1:43:16.560 --> 1:43:20.120 stepping in it pilled fascist? Right. A collapse can only 1:43:21.000 --> 1:43:25.000 benefit the right. A collapse can only benefit the people 1:43:25.080 --> 1:43:28.679 who already have power, who already able bodied, who already 1:43:29.680 --> 1:43:34.080 stocked up on guns, who already like, yeah, that does 1:43:34.200 --> 1:43:36.719 frustrate me with their being anarchists who are like rooting 1:43:36.760 --> 1:43:39.600 for the e collapse because you're not gonna win, like 1:43:40.000 --> 1:43:45.800 you're just going somewhere, Yeah, well, they have very strict 1:43:45.840 --> 1:43:48.000 ideas of which people count as human and the goal 1:43:48.080 --> 1:43:50.720 of the majority of fascist movements is to you know, 1:43:50.840 --> 1:43:52.920 purge the ranks of the people they see is lesser, 1:43:53.320 --> 1:43:56.599 and they have they have they have very precise ideas 1:43:56.640 --> 1:43:59.320 about who they plan on letting to survive the collapse. 1:44:01.479 --> 1:44:03.599 So let's let's I think it's time to start talking 1:44:03.600 --> 1:44:05.120 about and tell me if I'm taking this in the 1:44:05.160 --> 1:44:07.920 long direction. You know what the funding someone who's listening 1:44:07.960 --> 1:44:15.000 to this, Yeah, no, stop recycling, it's it's all getting 1:44:15.000 --> 1:44:21.840 buried in the Oregan force. Just vote. Let mean, like, 1:44:22.040 --> 1:44:25.080 what made you start local? Find a local group, find 1:44:25.120 --> 1:44:29.840 a local direct action group. Investigate that group and see 1:44:30.720 --> 1:44:33.080 who is behind it. But find start locally. It has 1:44:33.160 --> 1:44:37.680 to start at the local level. Because when I'm t say, 1:44:37.720 --> 1:44:40.600 I'm gonna say, if the collapse comes or like or 1:44:41.280 --> 1:44:46.360 the collapse like local local collapses, disasters, confusis disasters are 1:44:46.400 --> 1:44:48.880 gonna affect at the local level. No, talk to your 1:44:48.960 --> 1:44:51.560 talk to your neighbors, neber talk to your family, Like, 1:44:51.760 --> 1:44:55.040 let's try to get your family on these paths that 1:44:55.200 --> 1:44:58.400 lead to helping your neighbors instead of you know, making 1:44:58.520 --> 1:45:00.880 friends with the church. Militia. Before you buy a gun, 1:45:00.960 --> 1:45:04.360 learn how to fucking garden. Yes, but buying a gun 1:45:04.800 --> 1:45:08.120 and that sort of thing is is good. It's good 1:45:08.160 --> 1:45:11.360 to know how to use firearms. Basic preparedness, yes, but 1:45:11.640 --> 1:45:13.400 learn learn how to put on our turn to learn 1:45:13.400 --> 1:45:16.519 how to feed yourself. Learn how to grow some fucking food. 1:45:16.720 --> 1:45:19.240 Learn how to cook that fucking food. Get an effect. 1:45:19.280 --> 1:45:21.720 All that comes before, like you get to be a 1:45:21.840 --> 1:45:28.479 follow up character. Yeah, oh yeah, an individual first aid kit. 1:45:28.600 --> 1:45:32.760 You can buy them on the stores. You can. You 1:45:32.760 --> 1:45:34.519 can buy them in like some pawn shops. Yeah, I 1:45:34.600 --> 1:45:37.400 like North American Rescue or North River Rescue. I'm sure 1:45:37.439 --> 1:45:40.599 we'll find what I attacks more on the poduct. Well there, Look, 1:45:40.640 --> 1:45:42.600 there are two big things. One, we all have a 1:45:42.760 --> 1:45:46.840 moral obligation to consistently counter the black pill doom er ship. 1:45:47.320 --> 1:45:50.280 Everything is coming to an end, like it doesn't have to. 1:45:50.640 --> 1:45:53.720 That's optional. Like weed. Things are going to get bad, 1:45:53.840 --> 1:45:57.400 but there's degrees of that. We can stop it from being. 1:45:57.479 --> 1:46:00.320 And you don't need civilizational We don't need civilizytion to 1:46:00.439 --> 1:46:03.120 end like that can be done. Step two. We also 1:46:03.200 --> 1:46:06.120 have an obligation to counter the individualist stuff and and 1:46:06.400 --> 1:46:11.040 and focus our efforts more towards towards community and relationships. 1:46:11.479 --> 1:46:13.599 That is so so important because every idiot that's gonna 1:46:13.600 --> 1:46:15.640 buy a gonna have a bunker not only is not 1:46:15.640 --> 1:46:17.320 gonna make it, it's gonna screw the rest of us. 1:46:17.360 --> 1:46:18.920 Like this has to be a communal effort and a 1:46:19.120 --> 1:46:22.280 civilization thing, Like we do need the civilization to change, 1:46:22.840 --> 1:46:24.800 like we need human society, as we lay out, we 1:46:24.840 --> 1:46:27.320 as has a lot of problems. I understand people's critiques 1:46:27.360 --> 1:46:30.280 of human civilization. We still need a society, but yeah, 1:46:30.320 --> 1:46:32.880 we we need we need places that you know, people 1:46:32.920 --> 1:46:35.760 are going to Catherine and people, you know, provide the 1:46:35.800 --> 1:46:37.599 things that we have. Um. I noticed that that can 1:46:37.640 --> 1:46:41.000 be a loaded word on certain political circles. So I'm 1:46:41.040 --> 1:46:43.280 not you know, we're not getting into like civilization theory 1:46:43.320 --> 1:46:45.479 and that kind of anything. I was gonna say, I 1:46:45.520 --> 1:46:49.439 would argue any ideology or ideas just the boogaloo that 1:46:50.280 --> 1:46:53.519 uh kind of hypes up a collapse is generally one. 1:46:53.560 --> 1:46:55.599 You should stay away from anything that makes the collapse 1:46:55.640 --> 1:46:59.599 sound like it makes it sound sexy and personal story. 1:46:59.720 --> 1:47:01.519 As think it's important to remember, like if there was 1:47:01.600 --> 1:47:04.479 some massive civil conflict that happened, I think the people 1:47:04.479 --> 1:47:07.559 who would suffer the most or the noncombatants talk about 1:47:07.880 --> 1:47:10.719 to deal with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll talk about 1:47:11.000 --> 1:47:13.400 kind of episode of terrorism. Bad. Um, well we'll do 1:47:13.479 --> 1:47:15.920 plugs of the end. Hold put the gun back in 1:47:15.960 --> 1:47:19.519 your pants together. I was talking about historical precedent earlier, 1:47:19.640 --> 1:47:22.600 about things we've seen in the past with collapses and 1:47:22.680 --> 1:47:25.840 how people with guns and people who with training end 1:47:25.920 --> 1:47:28.880 up being the ones who gained power. Um. Something that 1:47:29.000 --> 1:47:32.160 like I was specifically reading about that was, um, like 1:47:32.320 --> 1:47:36.200 the Rwandan genocide. If you know, it was just three 1:47:36.280 --> 1:47:40.880 months where most of the Fusie people were wiped out. Um. 1:47:41.360 --> 1:47:45.000 There are conflicting numbers, so I'm not gonna specifically say 1:47:45.040 --> 1:47:49.200 any but um, you know the more recently like this year. 1:47:49.280 --> 1:47:53.120 Earlier this year, Um was only when Rwanda admitted what 1:47:53.240 --> 1:47:57.240 it was, that it was a genocide. And um, the people, 1:47:57.320 --> 1:48:02.280 the armed forces were the ones who came like the 1:48:02.800 --> 1:48:05.400 leaders and then they were backed by the government. That 1:48:05.560 --> 1:48:13.000 can't happen in America. Yeah, and it's like it can't 1:48:13.000 --> 1:48:16.360 happen here though we are we are immune to this 1:48:16.680 --> 1:48:19.000 in our spot of the world called it will not 1:48:19.200 --> 1:48:23.160 happen here. And the other thing is look at where 1:48:23.200 --> 1:48:26.200 you get your information from. Seriously, no matter who you are, 1:48:26.720 --> 1:48:29.000 take a long, hard look at who you get your information, 1:48:29.040 --> 1:48:31.880 even if you're on the left, especially if you're you're 1:48:31.920 --> 1:48:33.120 on the left. You know, if you want to hear 1:48:33.160 --> 1:48:36.479 about something that's happening in an area, look at the 1:48:36.479 --> 1:48:39.080 people who are actually on the ground reporting. People don't 1:48:39.120 --> 1:48:44.840 just rely on like news aggregators. Especially on Twitter. There's 1:48:44.880 --> 1:48:48.200 been a lot of bad, very bad faith news agreators 1:48:48.240 --> 1:48:50.000 on Twitter who are posing a leftist. This has been 1:48:50.040 --> 1:48:53.519 a huge problem. Even leftists who just don't do that 1:48:54.200 --> 1:48:57.200 just do a very bad job. People call themselves like 1:48:57.240 --> 1:49:02.000 car extremism or counter terms and researchers, and they are 1:49:02.120 --> 1:49:06.280 really talking about anti They say that they are counter 1:49:06.360 --> 1:49:10.000 extremism researchers, and they pose that way, and they look 1:49:10.840 --> 1:49:13.840 sometimes like they could be Sometimes I think not they're not, 1:49:14.080 --> 1:49:17.760 but like you know, vary varying degrees of life, legitimacy, 1:49:17.840 --> 1:49:24.920 but like they focus only on like the left wing stuff. 1:49:25.040 --> 1:49:29.960 They don't think they don't it has to be this 1:49:30.080 --> 1:49:32.400 idea of like keeping it balanced right, like not making 1:49:32.479 --> 1:49:35.439 it just like a far right issue, which I would argue. 1:49:35.720 --> 1:49:37.560 I think a lot of other people would that this 1:49:37.680 --> 1:49:44.040 kind of stuff is more concerning issue and there is 1:49:44.160 --> 1:49:50.000 like merit definitely to looking at left acceleration which is 1:49:50.080 --> 1:49:55.040 not for the record, like left accelerationism is not talking 1:49:55.080 --> 1:50:00.760 about anti fascists. But um, that's out time to get 1:50:00.760 --> 1:50:05.920 like we left accelerations and will will be its own episode. 1:50:05.960 --> 1:50:11.280 But what what some people do posing as um, you know, 1:50:11.439 --> 1:50:17.120 people who have credibility and are able to um kind 1:50:17.160 --> 1:50:22.600 of sway opinion, They are not really doing what they 1:50:22.640 --> 1:50:25.719 say that they're doing. They're really just trying to shift 1:50:25.760 --> 1:50:30.640 the narrative form of racially motivated violent extremism, which is 1:50:30.680 --> 1:50:36.200 a big obviously having to being like BLM is racially 1:50:36.280 --> 1:50:39.200 motivated violent extremism, and they want to push that narrative 1:50:39.280 --> 1:50:41.960 further and further. I think let's let's let' let's go, 1:50:42.000 --> 1:50:44.600 let's kind of price start to like wrap up and 1:50:44.640 --> 1:50:46.720 say our final thoughts on you know, this whole this 1:50:46.840 --> 1:50:49.559 whole topic. Um, I know, we we didn't. We didn't 1:50:49.600 --> 1:50:52.000 we did, we did We did not get to talk 1:50:52.080 --> 1:50:55.160 about like eco defense very much. Anyone has any final 1:50:55.200 --> 1:50:56.720 thoughts on that and how they see it kind of 1:50:56.760 --> 1:51:00.200 growing and how they see the state's response to it. Um, 1:51:00.520 --> 1:51:02.640 that might be worth briefly mentioning. But yeah, let's kind 1:51:02.640 --> 1:51:04.080 of let's just kind of go around in a circle 1:51:04.120 --> 1:51:06.200 and give kind of everyone's you know, final thoughts on 1:51:06.240 --> 1:51:11.600 the on the subjects. Um, I think collapse is is 1:51:11.720 --> 1:51:17.280 bad and I think that well, I mean that's my 1:51:17.360 --> 1:51:20.840 main my main thing. But anything that's appealing to you 1:51:22.479 --> 1:51:25.560 and on like an ecological level that's collapse related to 1:51:25.640 --> 1:51:27.519 something you should be very wary of. And I think 1:51:27.560 --> 1:51:30.439 you should be ware very wary of, like generally everything. 1:51:30.640 --> 1:51:33.200 I feel like it's kind of like a butchered be 1:51:33.280 --> 1:51:38.400 careful about everything. Um. Yeah, I guess in my opinion, 1:51:38.439 --> 1:51:42.559 the idea of total collapse is very misleading because it's 1:51:42.640 --> 1:51:46.760 easy and disasters don't work like that. You're not gonna 1:51:46.800 --> 1:51:50.800 suddenly reset one day. Um, everything is going to suck 1:51:51.120 --> 1:51:54.360 and you're going to need to fight for whatever semblance 1:51:54.439 --> 1:51:56.439 of a society that you want to see in the world. 1:51:57.160 --> 1:51:59.040 Talk to you fucking neighbors, that kind of people in 1:51:59.120 --> 1:52:02.240 your city, in your nighborhood. There are people doing good 1:52:02.280 --> 1:52:05.080 ship in whatever city town you live in. Most likely, 1:52:05.120 --> 1:52:07.360 if not, you can start it. Look at your local 1:52:07.479 --> 1:52:10.320 mutual aid network, Look at the people who are taking 1:52:10.360 --> 1:52:13.800 action around and get involved seriously. You know it could 1:52:13.840 --> 1:52:16.120 be going out into a park Saturday mornings and just 1:52:16.320 --> 1:52:19.680 like giving out food, talking to the people who are 1:52:19.720 --> 1:52:22.840 most affective people. Seriously, if every once a person you 1:52:22.880 --> 1:52:26.559 need to talk to touch grass people. If you need, 1:52:26.640 --> 1:52:29.160 like the most basic thing to start on any sort 1:52:29.160 --> 1:52:30.800 of mutual aid work trying to find a food not 1:52:30.880 --> 1:52:34.760 ball chapter. And they're well organized, they're easy to join. 1:52:35.439 --> 1:52:37.559 You don't have to put on block and fight a cop. 1:52:38.000 --> 1:52:41.200 It's yeah, it's a good entry point and it's it's great. 1:52:41.280 --> 1:52:44.160 It's great training for for disaster relief. If you have 1:52:44.320 --> 1:52:47.479 money and you want to help, seriously, just give pass 1:52:47.560 --> 1:52:49.920 to on house, people on the street, give money, give 1:52:49.960 --> 1:52:54.280 money to people, give money directly to people. Yep. Uh. 1:52:54.560 --> 1:52:57.160 My last thoughts are just that I think the idea 1:52:57.200 --> 1:53:00.759 of collapse or whether actual collapse themselves and mental or otherwise, 1:53:00.920 --> 1:53:03.840 will always be something to rally behind, Like it is 1:53:03.880 --> 1:53:06.880 always an entry points as well as motivator from from 1:53:06.920 --> 1:53:10.040 all for all sides, from all sides. Um. But it's 1:53:10.080 --> 1:53:12.439 like when these things become very silent, like was mentioned before, 1:53:12.479 --> 1:53:15.800 when they're outside of your door, that's when you know 1:53:17.400 --> 1:53:19.479 that's when like the ideology kind of hits the pavement, 1:53:19.560 --> 1:53:22.040 like what is actually going to play out, what is 1:53:22.040 --> 1:53:24.800 actually gonna happen, and how that's gonna affect People's very real. 1:53:24.920 --> 1:53:29.439 So building community, you know, building connections, um, and just 1:53:29.600 --> 1:53:32.559 understanding you know, who is in your community. It's probably 1:53:32.560 --> 1:53:36.439 one of the most important things. Yeah, the idea of 1:53:36.560 --> 1:53:41.240 collapse is a romantic and ridiculous notion. Uh, come up 1:53:41.280 --> 1:53:44.639 with people who are like really into like apocalyptic thinking 1:53:44.760 --> 1:53:46.760 and the version of themselves if they get to be 1:53:46.880 --> 1:53:50.240 the main character. So first and foremost, take care of 1:53:50.320 --> 1:53:52.000 each other. There are a lot of people out there 1:53:52.040 --> 1:53:54.080 who want to manipulate you and want to change the 1:53:54.120 --> 1:53:56.320 way you think about things, and they really really want 1:53:56.360 --> 1:53:58.680 you to buy in to the end times and you 1:53:58.720 --> 1:54:03.400 don't have to because you're smarter than that. Yeah, it's 1:54:03.560 --> 1:54:05.800 it's not hopeless. We really have to move away from 1:54:06.439 --> 1:54:11.559 hierarchical thinking. Our society really incentivized this hierarchical thinking and thinking. 1:54:11.600 --> 1:54:15.240 You're saying to a sac like we, um, we really 1:54:15.280 --> 1:54:17.679 need to just be focusing on people, like if things 1:54:17.800 --> 1:54:22.519 people because you know, somebody doesn't have to you know, 1:54:23.680 --> 1:54:28.120 earn you know, respect and earn humanity. For some reason, 1:54:28.200 --> 1:54:31.719 we try and make it seem like that. But people 1:54:31.760 --> 1:54:35.360 are people. Um, people are in different circumstances because of 1:54:36.480 --> 1:54:38.600 usually because of just the way that the world is. 1:54:38.760 --> 1:54:41.720 And um, yeah, you need to just you need to 1:54:41.840 --> 1:54:43.800 organize locally. You need to help your own people, and 1:54:46.400 --> 1:54:52.000 stay away from the internet. Ship stop posting. Don't stop 1:54:52.080 --> 1:54:55.520 posting a stop posting, even though I We'll keep doing 1:54:55.560 --> 1:54:58.880 it because because I'm the good poster who wants who 1:54:58.920 --> 1:55:05.080 wants to pluck the pot your product? Follow terrorism bad? 1:55:05.840 --> 1:55:09.960 We're on that s What is the plot? Like? What what? 1:55:10.280 --> 1:55:15.080 What do you? Yeah? We go through, um, portrayals of 1:55:15.280 --> 1:55:19.320 terrorism and extremism and conspiracies and conspiracies in popular media, 1:55:19.680 --> 1:55:22.200 and we look at it from the perspective of people 1:55:22.200 --> 1:55:25.800 who studied this and say, did this succeed in portraying 1:55:25.880 --> 1:55:28.280 these things or did it as it more often does 1:55:28.720 --> 1:55:32.760 problems completely fail and cause us all personal problems become propaganda? 1:55:32.960 --> 1:55:35.320 And like, did you make terror propaganda? Or did you 1:55:35.400 --> 1:55:39.240 make good media about that is a thin line? Such 1:55:39.280 --> 1:55:41.760 a thin line made a career out? That is that 1:55:41.920 --> 1:55:44.640 is the thin terror line? Yeah, do you want to 1:55:44.800 --> 1:55:48.520 plug your fantastic group? Yeah? Absolutely with you can read 1:55:48.520 --> 1:55:50.800 anything I write at Anti Hate dot c A. And 1:55:51.240 --> 1:55:55.480 we do just general reporting on h far right extremism 1:55:55.560 --> 1:56:00.720 in Canada as well as infiltration if I oh, and 1:56:00.800 --> 1:56:04.040 I also host a podcast called The Unusual Show. Yeah, 1:56:04.480 --> 1:56:06.440 if you want to keep up to date on extremism 1:56:06.560 --> 1:56:08.720 in Canada. Their group is one of is probably the 1:56:08.760 --> 1:56:12.400 best one around right now in my opinions. And yeah, 1:56:12.400 --> 1:56:14.480 and you do, you do, you do very good work. 1:56:14.600 --> 1:56:17.200 You keep your eye on my home country where my 1:56:17.240 --> 1:56:19.760 family lives. So thank you for that. Um, and I'm 1:56:19.880 --> 1:56:22.880 very happy to be talking with you guys in the 1:56:22.920 --> 1:56:25.760 beautiful woods where we have no cell service. We can't 1:56:25.840 --> 1:56:29.320 post um and that's good and we're gonna continue doing 1:56:29.360 --> 1:56:33.440 that and stop using this microphone. So goodbye. UM. Yeah 1:56:33.680 --> 1:56:40.360 and Terrorism Fat the podcast with that that wraps up 1:56:40.520 --> 1:56:46.320 the Terrorism round Table Forest Discussion episodes. Thanks for listening 1:56:46.400 --> 1:56:50.960 to all of us rant about our specific weird niche 1:56:51.200 --> 1:56:55.160 focuses and hopefully trying to have it within the useful 1:56:55.240 --> 1:56:58.640 context of climate change. You can follow me at Hungry 1:56:58.680 --> 1:57:02.200 bow Tie. You can follow the podcast Happen Here pod 1:57:02.280 --> 1:57:06.160 and cool Zone Media on Twitter and I believe Instagram, 1:57:06.480 --> 1:57:08.920 you can follow some of the researchers I interviewed UM 1:57:09.000 --> 1:57:12.720 on their podcast at Terrorism Bad. So that wraps up 1:57:12.760 --> 1:57:16.720 this discussion. Thanks for listening, See you later in the 1:57:17.000 --> 1:57:34.520 podcasting verse, the pod verse. Okay, goodbye. What's a problem 1:57:38.160 --> 1:57:42.480 here the show where I'm a problem. I'm on vacation legally, 1:57:43.120 --> 1:57:48.560 You're not on vacation allegedly legally, But okay in Shelah, 1:57:48.840 --> 1:57:54.800 I'm drunk. Garrison, you're in charge, now figure it out. Great, Hi, 1:57:55.600 --> 1:58:00.560 it could happen here today. We are talking with somebody. 1:58:00.680 --> 1:58:02.640 If you've listened to the past two episodes, you should 1:58:02.640 --> 1:58:07.080 actually know, uh, THEO who is a journalist and researcher, 1:58:07.640 --> 1:58:11.680 and we are going to be discussing plans for an 1:58:12.000 --> 1:58:16.800 upcoming rally in Washington, d C. That's has a lot 1:58:16.840 --> 1:58:21.640 of that seems good. Yeah, this is Uh. Things never happened? When? 1:58:22.120 --> 1:58:26.320 What happened? What happened last time? But half the last time, 1:58:26.320 --> 1:58:30.040 I don't I I historically only pay attention to things 1:58:30.120 --> 1:58:35.080 that happened after May and before December. So I'm unaware 1:58:35.080 --> 1:58:37.960 of anything bad ever happening in d C. Well, something 1:58:38.000 --> 1:58:42.000 bad stuff happened there last time. It got it got 1:58:42.080 --> 1:58:46.640 a little spicy, um, okay, spicy, but it's not like 1:58:46.760 --> 1:58:49.600 they tried to overthrow the government murder elected leaders, right, 1:58:49.960 --> 1:58:53.320 that is what they are actually having too much fun. Yeah, 1:58:53.520 --> 1:58:56.160 they're just boys. They were just proud of their boys. 1:58:56.440 --> 1:59:00.240 A little carried away building. All of the build that 1:59:00.400 --> 1:59:05.160 big hanging contraption whatever it's called gallows gallows. Yeah. Anyway, 1:59:05.600 --> 1:59:07.240 we're talking THEO. Do you want to do? You want 1:59:07.240 --> 1:59:12.600 to introduce yourself? Yeah, Hey, guys, I'm theo UM idealist 1:59:13.040 --> 1:59:19.160 and a researcher. I'm based out of Virginia. Allegedly I 1:59:19.320 --> 1:59:22.120 end up covering a lot of events in DC because 1:59:22.160 --> 1:59:26.920 of that, and that's my plans for this weekend. Yeah, 1:59:27.560 --> 1:59:29.160 do you want to do? You want to give us 1:59:29.240 --> 1:59:33.040 like an overview of what rallies in DC have been 1:59:33.160 --> 1:59:35.880 like the past, Let's say like the past year. Um 1:59:36.120 --> 1:59:42.560 oh boy do I yeah? Let's just for background. Yeah, so, 1:59:43.680 --> 1:59:47.160 like pretty much immediately post election, as the whole kind 1:59:47.200 --> 1:59:51.400 of stop the Steel thing got kicked into gear. Um, 1:59:51.480 --> 1:59:54.720 November fourteen, there was a rally in d c um 1:59:55.920 --> 1:59:58.360 and then there was one December twelve, and then there 1:59:58.440 --> 2:00:02.400 is finally one as most are probably aware, on January six. 2:00:04.320 --> 2:00:06.640 January six, you know, obviously got the bulk of the 2:00:06.720 --> 2:00:10.680 media coverage. UM, but November fourteenth and especially December twelve 2:00:10.960 --> 2:00:19.520 were very violent situations in general. UM proud boys, General 2:00:20.240 --> 2:00:27.360 Chud's a bunch of oathkeepers, bunch of people's confused memas 2:00:27.400 --> 2:00:31.440 and pat paps showed up. UM would kind of wander 2:00:31.520 --> 2:00:39.200 around the Yeah yeah they did, Yeah, pretty pretty fucked up. 2:00:39.320 --> 2:00:41.280 I know some people who were there when they did, 2:00:41.400 --> 2:00:47.760 and it's I don't know, it's sad, like it's really bleak. 2:00:47.920 --> 2:00:51.000 I was there with the people that you know Ubert, 2:00:52.280 --> 2:00:55.800 Oh good, yeah, so you I mean, it's just it's 2:00:55.840 --> 2:01:00.280 so fucking um. I don't know the extent of the disinformation, right, 2:01:00.360 --> 2:01:02.560 It's hard when you're talking about this to like express 2:01:02.560 --> 2:01:04.960 a lot of sympathy for some of these people. And 2:01:05.040 --> 2:01:07.200 I'm not sympathetic towards their aims. I'm not trying to 2:01:07.240 --> 2:01:09.120 do the New York Times like let's talk to the 2:01:09.160 --> 2:01:12.800 Trump voter down the street. But like a lot of 2:01:12.880 --> 2:01:15.720 them are just like they're fucking dumb people who bought 2:01:15.800 --> 2:01:19.320 into some bullshit and it it destroyed them and their 2:01:19.360 --> 2:01:21.960 relationships with their families and in some cases cost them 2:01:22.000 --> 2:01:25.880 their lives and like you don't have to sympathize with 2:01:26.000 --> 2:01:29.440 them to be like, yeah, that's bleak as ship, you know. Yeah, 2:01:29.600 --> 2:01:32.360 And I think you see that with the dc rallies 2:01:32.800 --> 2:01:36.640 really more so than like, uh, Portland's Proud Boy event 2:01:36.760 --> 2:01:40.040 for example, that is not at all a gathering of 2:01:40.200 --> 2:01:42.840 like the masses. That's that's a specific group of pieces 2:01:42.880 --> 2:01:46.720 of ship. Yeah. Yeah, And like you'd have absolutely like 2:01:47.000 --> 2:01:49.920 units of Proud Boys or oath keepers. We had three 2:01:49.960 --> 2:01:52.720 per centers some local Virginia militias and they'd kind of 2:01:52.720 --> 2:01:55.960 be wandering around. But during the day itself you'd normally 2:01:56.040 --> 2:02:00.720 see like speakers. Alex Jones was there, Um to meet him. 2:02:00.960 --> 2:02:07.440 That was fun. Um, that's always a meeting Alex. He's 2:02:07.480 --> 2:02:13.520 a great guy. It was really fun. He's his neck. 2:02:14.440 --> 2:02:16.920 It's hard to exaggerate how how he is just as 2:02:17.000 --> 2:02:20.680 red in person. He's so red. And as a guy 2:02:20.720 --> 2:02:23.480 who's good at strangling, it seems like he would be 2:02:23.520 --> 2:02:28.640 hard to strangle. Oh, nearly impossible. Like that's so big, 2:02:28.760 --> 2:02:32.240 it's such like it's like a fucking train car. Like 2:02:32.360 --> 2:02:35.920 it's ridiculous how big that man's neck is. Look, most 2:02:35.960 --> 2:02:38.520 people aren't hard to strangle. Alex Jones would be that's 2:02:38.560 --> 2:02:42.480 not praising him, that's just being honest. So during the 2:02:42.640 --> 2:02:45.280 day there would be speakers, you know, Alex Jones, and 2:02:45.440 --> 2:02:48.680 you kind of see people split up into whatever they're 2:02:48.720 --> 2:02:51.720 specific brand of fucker he is. There's like groups of 2:02:51.840 --> 2:02:56.560 nerdy looking gropers. Um, there were some trad cats wearing 2:02:56.720 --> 2:03:01.160 road Those guys were fun meant, but yeah, a lot 2:03:01.240 --> 2:03:04.680 of it's you know, confused, like boomers on Facebook and 2:03:04.760 --> 2:03:08.360 kind of to Roberts point, like I normally didn't go, 2:03:08.560 --> 2:03:11.880 you know, wearing press credentials because I value knives being 2:03:11.920 --> 2:03:14.280 outside of me and not inside of it. Yeah, it's 2:03:14.360 --> 2:03:17.680 it's good to not get stabbed. Most people appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, 2:03:17.920 --> 2:03:21.120 it's one of my favorite things. And so I'd get 2:03:21.160 --> 2:03:23.160 to like talking to these people, especially the older ones, 2:03:23.160 --> 2:03:25.000 because I take the Metro into the city and they 2:03:25.080 --> 2:03:30.160 are they're just confused, old people who have gotten in 2:03:30.280 --> 2:03:33.160 over their heads. But yeah, then like the sun would 2:03:33.200 --> 2:03:37.400 set and that's when the Proud Boys would really start 2:03:38.680 --> 2:03:44.200 getting into ship. November they stabbed. I don't know if 2:03:44.200 --> 2:03:46.960 I'm remembering this correctly, so feel free to fact check me, 2:03:47.080 --> 2:03:50.920 but I believe there was two people on the Uh, 2:03:51.120 --> 2:03:55.680 they cracked a girl's skull and then on December twelve, 2:03:57.360 --> 2:04:02.080 they stabbed one other person and Jeremy Burtino got blayed 2:04:02.480 --> 2:04:05.040 on the street. He shared it, he shared it, and 2:04:05.120 --> 2:04:08.280 the fucking d A elected not to prosecute because that 2:04:08.440 --> 2:04:10.880 was the clearest case of self defense I have ever 2:04:10.960 --> 2:04:14.640 seen in my life. Um. Yeah, so like, like the 2:04:14.760 --> 2:04:17.560 dude literally tried to flee three times, he drew his 2:04:17.640 --> 2:04:20.120 knife after by the third time he was blinded by 2:04:20.160 --> 2:04:22.560 having a shirt puld and assaulted by a group he 2:04:22.680 --> 2:04:25.640 had no other choice. Yeah, he did exactly what you're 2:04:25.640 --> 2:04:29.480 supposed to do in that situation and repeatedly tried to 2:04:29.520 --> 2:04:31.560 flee and when he did, and he stabbed a motherfucker. 2:04:31.680 --> 2:04:34.640 And you can't, I I can't. He did nothing wrong 2:04:34.840 --> 2:04:37.600 in my in my opinion, all the d a's opinion. Yeah, 2:04:38.320 --> 2:04:40.320 we're all probably better off for it. But yeah, there's 2:04:40.320 --> 2:04:44.280 this kind of established Uh, there was this established sort 2:04:44.320 --> 2:04:48.520 of cycle of show up, a bunch of weird Republican 2:04:48.600 --> 2:04:53.200 politicians that you've never heard of before, give speeches. Uh, 2:04:53.640 --> 2:04:57.320 you go and kind of wander around, and then the 2:04:57.400 --> 2:05:00.760 proud Boys come out and they funk around and sometimes 2:05:00.800 --> 2:05:04.960 other groups too, Like January the night before January six, 2:05:05.440 --> 2:05:10.480 there were people from NSC one one who were hanging 2:05:10.520 --> 2:05:14.480 out trying to cause trouble, getting in altercations all their 2:05:14.560 --> 2:05:17.520 normal ship and so yeah, there's this kind of like 2:05:17.760 --> 2:05:22.840 general mix of groups. January six shifted the paradigm on 2:05:23.000 --> 2:05:24.880 that a lot. And I think that's the big thing 2:05:24.960 --> 2:05:29.160 for this weekend is we don't really know what it's 2:05:29.200 --> 2:05:31.600 gonna look like. Yeah, can you talk about kind of 2:05:31.840 --> 2:05:36.000 what has kind of the event promotion looked like from 2:05:36.040 --> 2:05:38.280 the right, Like what have they what messages have they 2:05:38.320 --> 2:05:42.240 been putting out to promote this event with? So yeah, 2:05:42.280 --> 2:05:46.240 a lot of like the bigger groups have been fairly 2:05:46.360 --> 2:05:52.520 explicitly saying like don't go officially. Unofficially is a bit 2:05:52.560 --> 2:05:56.120 of a different story and fairness, It's worth noting that 2:05:56.280 --> 2:06:00.280 prior to UM the United Rally and Charlote, so the 2:06:00.280 --> 2:06:03.000 Proud Boys were saying don't go, and an awful lot 2:06:03.040 --> 2:06:05.800 of their most violent members were at Unite the Right 2:06:05.840 --> 2:06:08.600 in Charlottesville. You know, it's some some of this is 2:06:08.640 --> 2:06:12.440 a plausible deniability game. Yeah, So like the official Proud 2:06:12.520 --> 2:06:15.320 Boys telegram channel was like, oh, this is I mean 2:06:15.360 --> 2:06:17.360 in different words, but we're pretty much like this is 2:06:17.840 --> 2:06:20.120 a honeypot, this is a trap, this is an op 2:06:20.720 --> 2:06:24.880 don't go. Um. But also like we've seen activity that 2:06:25.920 --> 2:06:30.960 really suggests otherwise. UM, whether it's like smaller, more local 2:06:31.040 --> 2:06:35.520 groups saying that they want to go or UH streamers 2:06:35.640 --> 2:06:41.200 and journalists using the word lightly to UH who have 2:06:41.320 --> 2:06:45.360 pretty close relationships with these groups, hiring extra stringers for 2:06:45.480 --> 2:06:48.440 the weekend, or looking like they're preparing to report on 2:06:48.560 --> 2:06:52.840 something big. Yeah, the kind of the I know, we've 2:06:53.440 --> 2:06:57.120 talked a little bit um online with some of our 2:06:57.240 --> 2:07:01.720 colleagues and there's definitely a mixed a mixed, a mixed 2:07:01.720 --> 2:07:04.280 opinion on how big the event is going to be 2:07:04.840 --> 2:07:06.640 and who's all going to be there and what kind 2:07:06.680 --> 2:07:09.760 of their goal is, which makes kind of everything all 2:07:09.840 --> 2:07:11.960 the more tense because you know, it's almost easier to 2:07:12.240 --> 2:07:13.880 when we know what it's going to be, like we 2:07:14.080 --> 2:07:16.320 like we have a good grasp and what's gonna happen, 2:07:16.800 --> 2:07:19.840 and this we're not really sure? Um do you do 2:07:19.960 --> 2:07:22.360 you know, has there been any kind of response from 2:07:22.400 --> 2:07:25.160 like local DC officials, like like law enforcement or anything 2:07:25.320 --> 2:07:29.760 about what they're gonna do at this gathering? So I 2:07:29.840 --> 2:07:32.440 did see Capital Police is planning to put the fence 2:07:32.520 --> 2:07:36.960 back up. Um. Probably a good idea, yeah, which like 2:07:37.240 --> 2:07:39.800 will cover the capital. But there's also a problem with 2:07:39.880 --> 2:07:41.720 the fence going up, which is the back of the 2:07:41.840 --> 2:07:46.800 fence goes right up to the end of the Black 2:07:46.920 --> 2:07:50.560 Lives Matter Plaza in d C, which has been used 2:07:50.560 --> 2:07:55.640 as kind of a rallying point for uh anti fascist activists, 2:07:55.880 --> 2:08:01.080 and when that fence is up, it's just it's a funnel. 2:08:02.440 --> 2:08:06.040 The so it goes like this is an of visual medium. 2:08:06.080 --> 2:08:09.120 There's a street, uh, and that's where Black Lives Matter 2:08:09.200 --> 2:08:13.280 plause is and there's only two exits, and both those 2:08:13.360 --> 2:08:16.720 exits lead to hotels that Proud Boys and Chud's love 2:08:16.800 --> 2:08:21.320 to stay in. So what happens almost without fail is 2:08:21.360 --> 2:08:23.880 people go and hang out in the plaza. You know, 2:08:24.000 --> 2:08:26.520 Chud's come down the streets. Police form a line, and 2:08:26.560 --> 2:08:31.080 it's pretty much a pre made kettle, right. So that's 2:08:31.120 --> 2:08:35.400 like not good. Uh, it's good for the capital, but 2:08:35.640 --> 2:08:37.120 it's not good for the people that will be on 2:08:37.200 --> 2:08:40.760 the ground, yeah, because they're also as is most of 2:08:40.800 --> 2:08:44.960 these events, UM, there has been some organizing locally and 2:08:45.080 --> 2:08:48.360 even you know UH anti fashions from around kind of 2:08:48.400 --> 2:08:51.879 the country. Trying to like put out advice and feelers 2:08:51.920 --> 2:08:54.800 and like what to do for the specific gathering. UM. 2:08:55.280 --> 2:08:57.560 And I know there's been there's been a decent amount 2:08:57.680 --> 2:09:00.839 of you know, there's there's always like debate eighteen conflict 2:09:00.920 --> 2:09:04.520 of around how much to show up, where to show up, 2:09:04.640 --> 2:09:08.520 you know, how proact people should be. Um. But because 2:09:08.600 --> 2:09:10.840 this is the first big rally since J six, I 2:09:10.880 --> 2:09:13.800 feel like there's a lot of people. I feel it's 2:09:13.960 --> 2:09:16.560 much more important and like the people have like you know, 2:09:16.600 --> 2:09:19.200 there's there's there's like there's like a heightened sense around 2:09:19.240 --> 2:09:22.320 the specific thing. Um. Do you know, like how many 2:09:22.360 --> 2:09:25.200 people are kind of roughly planning to show up on 2:09:25.320 --> 2:09:28.880 like the anti fascist side. It's really hard to tell, 2:09:29.560 --> 2:09:33.280 um d c anti fascist actions. I've seen you know, 2:09:34.480 --> 2:09:39.839 a couple dozen people in block towards close to a hundred. 2:09:40.080 --> 2:09:42.800 I would um, from what I've heard, the kind of 2:09:42.880 --> 2:09:48.400 main counter demo that's happening is uh definitely less radical 2:09:50.120 --> 2:09:51.880 and it's kind of trying to establish sort of a 2:09:51.960 --> 2:09:57.040 community space thing. Uh. So I would say, I don't know, 2:09:57.720 --> 2:10:03.040 expect around forty to fifty like people who are there 2:10:03.120 --> 2:10:08.280 to throw hands, Yeah, and a lot more people who 2:10:08.320 --> 2:10:11.640 are just kind of there. I mean, it's it's this uh, 2:10:12.120 --> 2:10:15.200 it's this thing we saw. I was in d C 2:10:15.480 --> 2:10:18.960 for Unite the Right too, you know, the second rally, 2:10:19.960 --> 2:10:21.960 and it it didn't turn into much of a thing, 2:10:22.400 --> 2:10:25.480 you know. I think because of the preparation, the expectation, 2:10:25.680 --> 2:10:28.760 and I guess I'm interested in if you think I'm 2:10:28.800 --> 2:10:31.840 wrong on this, but my current expectation is that maybe 2:10:32.640 --> 2:10:35.400 that might be the most likely outcome because because of 2:10:35.480 --> 2:10:39.480 the degree of and the unexpected event already occurred and 2:10:39.680 --> 2:10:44.200 was awful, I'm not expecting anyone will be given free leash, 2:10:45.520 --> 2:10:48.640 you know. Yeah, I could definitely see that sort of 2:10:48.800 --> 2:10:51.640 Unite the Right to scenario playing out, especially because it 2:10:51.840 --> 2:10:55.840 is very similar, like there was this massive shocking event 2:10:56.120 --> 2:11:01.840 that kind of yeah Lee's attention, Yeah, and so then 2:11:02.040 --> 2:11:04.520 people will I think the only big difference is, like 2:11:05.200 --> 2:11:08.720 in the aftermath of Unite the Right, you kind of 2:11:08.840 --> 2:11:13.040 saw at times of misguided media focus, but still a 2:11:13.120 --> 2:11:19.120 media focus on anti fascist activists as playing a unique 2:11:19.320 --> 2:11:21.920 role when you didn't have that for January six, And 2:11:22.000 --> 2:11:25.760 I think that's that's really one of my bigger worries 2:11:26.040 --> 2:11:31.320 is less so kind of clashes between Chud's and uh 2:11:31.440 --> 2:11:33.560 anti fascists, which is still I mean, you know that's 2:11:33.640 --> 2:11:37.040 always a thing that may happen. But also like you 2:11:37.120 --> 2:11:40.560 have to think these chuds that are coming. When they 2:11:40.640 --> 2:11:43.880 look at DC police, they see someone, they see the 2:11:43.920 --> 2:11:48.640 people who killed Ashley Babbitt. When the DC police look 2:11:49.120 --> 2:11:57.360 at these chudd's, they're the people who beat someone, beat 2:11:57.400 --> 2:12:00.720 one of their co workers to death. And you know, 2:12:00.800 --> 2:12:04.040 like there's Capital Police not same as DC Metro Police, 2:12:04.440 --> 2:12:08.680 but like in the minds of both these groups, that 2:12:08.840 --> 2:12:13.960 doesn't really matter. And I worry about the tension there. 2:12:15.480 --> 2:12:17.520 I like, I don't care if they mace each other. 2:12:17.680 --> 2:12:20.200 You know, if the Proud Boys and cops mace each other, 2:12:20.320 --> 2:12:24.640 then that's a great day for me. But if it 2:12:24.880 --> 2:12:30.040 escalates further, and you know, we're seeing that more and 2:12:30.160 --> 2:12:35.040 more the past, was it past two kind of major 2:12:35.920 --> 2:12:41.160 right wing rallies in the Pacific Northwest have had shots fired. Yep, yep, ye. 2:12:42.640 --> 2:12:47.080 Every every reason PW protest has involved gun fire. Yeah, 2:12:47.280 --> 2:12:53.240 and like the one, the August two one had, I guess, 2:12:53.800 --> 2:12:58.560 I guess you could call it a legitimate change, Yeah, 2:12:58.840 --> 2:13:02.520 a casual gunfight. I mean, the the start of it 2:13:02.640 --> 2:13:05.920 was not legitimate. The right winger who fired was not legitimate. Um, 2:13:06.360 --> 2:13:09.240 but the two people on the left who responded, we're 2:13:09.280 --> 2:13:12.280 doing so in self defense. Now, what happened a couple 2:13:12.320 --> 2:13:15.200 of weeks later, from the video that's come out was 2:13:15.280 --> 2:13:18.160 not self defense. It was a guy shooting at somebody 2:13:18.240 --> 2:13:21.200 pursuing them from like fifty feet back, you know. It 2:13:21.280 --> 2:13:23.440 was not legally what you would call self defense for 2:13:23.560 --> 2:13:27.520 certain Yeah, and that kind of the precedent that that's set, 2:13:28.960 --> 2:13:31.600 which I think it's happened a few enough times that 2:13:31.680 --> 2:13:34.880 we can't really say that it's it's the norm or 2:13:34.920 --> 2:13:39.400 anything like that, but it's still it's an escalation. It's 2:13:39.880 --> 2:13:44.440 something absolutely did Like if that, if that had happened 2:13:44.480 --> 2:13:49.160 in when Unite the Right happened like that would have 2:13:49.240 --> 2:13:53.880 been unprecedented. It's very frightening, you know, and it it 2:13:54.000 --> 2:13:56.120 should be. It doesn't matter what you think about the 2:13:56.160 --> 2:14:02.120 morality of shooting tiny you know, or what ever. Exchanges 2:14:02.160 --> 2:14:07.400 of fire becoming more common is a threat to everybody, 2:14:07.640 --> 2:14:11.160 and it is something that should concern everybody. Yeah, I mean, 2:14:11.200 --> 2:14:13.320 it reminds me a lot of and this was kind 2:14:13.360 --> 2:14:16.840 of the impetus of the first season of It could 2:14:16.880 --> 2:14:20.600 happen here but like the early days of something like 2:14:20.880 --> 2:14:23.880 the Syrians of Award where it went from protests to 2:14:25.360 --> 2:14:29.400 exchanges of gunfire too, you know what it is Now? 2:14:31.240 --> 2:14:35.800 Do you think DC specific gun laws um will make 2:14:36.160 --> 2:14:38.600 gunfire in DC a little bit less likely? Do you think? 2:14:39.000 --> 2:14:41.120 I don't? Like? Still like the police always have that 2:14:41.200 --> 2:14:44.240 capacity if they feel, um, you know, if if they 2:14:44.320 --> 2:14:47.400 choose to. But more specific on like the right between people. 2:14:47.440 --> 2:14:49.120 I don't know, it's like no boogs are going to 2:14:49.160 --> 2:14:52.320 show up or whatever. Um, what kind of talk do 2:14:52.360 --> 2:14:57.240 you see around firearms? So yeah, kind of just from experience, 2:14:57.320 --> 2:15:01.320 I think my worry with DC's gun laws is only 2:15:01.480 --> 2:15:05.320 one side will be armed. Every time that Ched has 2:15:05.360 --> 2:15:08.640 come to d C. I mean they are obviously carrying. 2:15:08.800 --> 2:15:11.720 I mean, every single one of them is print is printing. 2:15:12.600 --> 2:15:16.320 You can tell that they have firearms on them. They 2:15:16.360 --> 2:15:19.480 don't really try to hide it, and none of them 2:15:19.560 --> 2:15:23.160 have ever I mean, I guess apart from Tario getting 2:15:23.240 --> 2:15:27.720 arrested for illegal magazines, like, none of them have really 2:15:27.800 --> 2:15:33.480 faced any consequences for that. And the general fear among 2:15:33.600 --> 2:15:36.200 people on the left is well, even if I do 2:15:37.600 --> 2:15:41.120 come and I carry for self defense, if I get arrested, 2:15:41.160 --> 2:15:47.320 for something unrelated that will enhance whatever charges I get. Yeah, No, 2:15:47.480 --> 2:15:52.040 it's sketchy and it's um. I don't I'm not convinced 2:15:52.200 --> 2:15:55.400 in the situation d C is in specifically, that showing 2:15:55.560 --> 2:15:58.680 up with a fucking firearm is the right call. You know. 2:15:58.920 --> 2:16:00.920 I'm not in this business to lecture people, but I'm 2:16:00.960 --> 2:16:04.240 not convinced that's going to help. In the Pacific Northwest, 2:16:04.280 --> 2:16:07.000 we've seen situations where people with weapons, as on the 2:16:07.040 --> 2:16:11.520 twenty two, defended themselves and others. And we've seen situations 2:16:11.560 --> 2:16:13.560 in which people on the web with weapons on the 2:16:13.680 --> 2:16:16.400 left escalated things. So it's not a it's never a 2:16:16.520 --> 2:16:18.720 zero sum game, you know, it's not. It's not a 2:16:18.800 --> 2:16:24.000 simple issue. Is a neutral tool, you know. Yeah. And 2:16:24.080 --> 2:16:26.120 I don't want to, like, I don't want it to 2:16:26.200 --> 2:16:29.280 come off like I'm encouraging, you know, every person in 2:16:29.400 --> 2:16:32.440 block to show up with a long gun like that, 2:16:33.600 --> 2:16:37.720 because that would be a fucking disaster most likely. But 2:16:37.959 --> 2:16:42.440 also like, I don't like the idea of, you know, 2:16:42.640 --> 2:16:45.280 looking at a line of Proud Boys or something and 2:16:45.360 --> 2:16:47.680 knowing every single one of these people has a gun, 2:16:48.560 --> 2:16:54.000 and I do not. That's an imbalance of force that 2:16:54.120 --> 2:16:57.920 I don't like when things if things do escalate. No, 2:16:58.160 --> 2:17:02.920 that that's completely reasonable in my opinion. But yeah, I 2:17:02.959 --> 2:17:05.560 mean I think the big thing is just there's so 2:17:05.720 --> 2:17:12.120 many unknowns. Uh, you know, we've never really there's not 2:17:12.280 --> 2:17:15.480 much of a historical precedent for group tries to overthrow 2:17:15.600 --> 2:17:20.960 the government, group shows back up in d C months later, 2:17:21.920 --> 2:17:26.160 or elements of the same kind of ideology, and yeah, 2:17:26.480 --> 2:17:29.440 we just don't know. I mean even like I think 2:17:29.520 --> 2:17:35.160 that Unite the Right to example, is similar but also 2:17:35.400 --> 2:17:39.560 like markedly different enough that I don't know if it's 2:17:40.320 --> 2:17:43.760 an all encompassing tool for like this is what it's 2:17:43.800 --> 2:17:47.320 gonna look like. Yeah, is there any like specific players 2:17:47.800 --> 2:17:50.440 that you know is going to show up or or 2:17:50.560 --> 2:17:53.080 have like said that they're going to show up. So 2:17:53.920 --> 2:17:58.080 one that I kind of worry about is um, oh 2:17:58.160 --> 2:18:01.400 I'm gonna get fucking tweets or this God damnit. Um. 2:18:02.040 --> 2:18:04.360 So there's a group in Virginia that you may have 2:18:04.480 --> 2:18:10.240 heard of, b LM seven five seven. Yeah, I know 2:18:10.400 --> 2:18:13.920 you're talking about. Yeah. Uh. They are based out of 2:18:14.120 --> 2:18:17.680 the Virginia Beach area and they're the biggest pain in 2:18:17.760 --> 2:18:22.160 the ass ever um they work with. They claim to 2:18:22.200 --> 2:18:26.080 be a Black Lives Matter organization. The local Black Lives 2:18:26.120 --> 2:18:30.160 Matter organizations have denounced them. They work with Boogloo boys. 2:18:30.240 --> 2:18:33.600 They were very tight with Mike Dunn before he uh 2:18:34.080 --> 2:18:38.800 snitched and off the face of the earth. Yeah. Um, 2:18:39.160 --> 2:18:43.680 And then yeah, they come And I don't like the 2:18:43.760 --> 2:18:45.720 idea of them coming to a town that is not 2:18:45.800 --> 2:18:48.400 familiar with them, because like they come to Richmond, for example, 2:18:49.360 --> 2:18:52.760 and people are like, oh, there's b l M seven seven. 2:18:53.040 --> 2:18:56.280 We don't funk with them, but they come, you know, 2:18:56.360 --> 2:18:58.480 they come to a town or groups like this, like 2:18:58.800 --> 2:19:01.440 uh n f a C. The Not Not Fucking Around 2:19:01.520 --> 2:19:06.039 Coalition tried to come to d C. And I these 2:19:06.120 --> 2:19:09.120 groups that are gonna be armed, are gonna want to 2:19:09.280 --> 2:19:12.600 escalate and are gonna kind of try to slide in 2:19:13.840 --> 2:19:19.080 to like a counter demo or stick around like the 2:19:19.200 --> 2:19:22.360 more left leaning parts of the crowd, and then could 2:19:22.600 --> 2:19:26.280 very quickly escalate things. So they're one that I'm worried about. 2:19:27.800 --> 2:19:35.520 Some local Virginia militia movement players have been chatting about it. 2:19:35.600 --> 2:19:37.360 I haven't seen really that much in the way of 2:19:37.440 --> 2:19:43.240 like definitive statements that they're gonna go. Um, and those 2:19:43.240 --> 2:19:46.600 guys don't really worry me, there a bunch of nerds 2:19:46.800 --> 2:19:49.240 who like to play dress up in the woods mostly, 2:19:50.360 --> 2:19:54.240 but yeah, it's again it's just like these kind of unknowns. Yeah, 2:19:54.360 --> 2:19:56.320 so just like not knowing who's going to show up 2:19:56.360 --> 2:19:58.920 and what they're gonna do and where'll they're be and yeah, 2:19:59.680 --> 2:20:04.280 well yeah, like and this was a thing. Definitely. It 2:20:04.400 --> 2:20:07.080 reminds me a lot of the first stop, the Steel Rally, 2:20:07.200 --> 2:20:12.879 where we had more concrete groups saying we're gonna be there. 2:20:13.360 --> 2:20:15.560 There's a lot more chatter about it on social media, 2:20:15.640 --> 2:20:18.040 but it was still kind of like I don't know, 2:20:18.320 --> 2:20:21.920 like what range of the sort of right wing ideological 2:20:22.000 --> 2:20:24.400 spectrum will be here, Like I know, you know Q 2:20:24.600 --> 2:20:26.760 and on your Q and on uncle will be there. 2:20:27.920 --> 2:20:33.480 But like, for example, on November four, uh, Jason Kessler 2:20:33.600 --> 2:20:36.400 was there, the organizer of Unite the Right. I literally 2:20:36.560 --> 2:20:41.520 bumped into Jason Kessler, like I was walking and my 2:20:41.600 --> 2:20:43.720 shoulder hit him and I looked up and I was like, 2:20:43.879 --> 2:20:46.760 oh sorry, dude, and then I just kind of stopped 2:20:46.800 --> 2:20:50.560 and I was like, oh, ship, I recognize you. Yeah, 2:20:50.920 --> 2:20:55.320 you're that famous piece of ship. Yeah. But yeah, so 2:20:55.480 --> 2:20:57.320 like it's kind of that same thing where we don't 2:20:57.959 --> 2:21:03.000 we really just don't have that much intel, and it 2:21:03.080 --> 2:21:07.760 seems like, you know, people with access to more streams 2:21:07.800 --> 2:21:10.800 of information than us, like the FEDS have been saying 2:21:11.720 --> 2:21:14.680 for I guess a couple of months now, like we're 2:21:14.760 --> 2:21:21.560 monitoring this situation where like preparing to stop another January six, 2:21:21.720 --> 2:21:23.960 which take it with a grain of salt. It is 2:21:24.040 --> 2:21:28.960 the FEDS, but also like part of me, A lot 2:21:29.080 --> 2:21:32.160 of the worry I get from this is people that 2:21:32.879 --> 2:21:37.440 I know no more than I do, reacting to it, 2:21:37.600 --> 2:21:42.560 like chud streamers hiring stringers, FEDS saying like announcing months 2:21:42.640 --> 2:21:47.760 before that it's a situation that they're preparing for a 2:21:47.800 --> 2:21:49.760 lot of people are very interested in what's going to happen. 2:21:49.920 --> 2:21:51.920 I think people are definitely preparing for a lot of 2:21:52.000 --> 2:21:56.120 different different outcomes, and that makes any kind of resistance 2:21:56.160 --> 2:21:58.320 to it hard because you don't know if you're over, 2:21:58.680 --> 2:22:01.160 if you're overpreparing, underprepared, ring, you don't know if you'll 2:22:01.200 --> 2:22:04.120 have what you'll do. Your preparations too aggressive and not 2:22:04.240 --> 2:22:07.640 aggressive enough, yeah, yeah, and always trying to like you know, 2:22:07.840 --> 2:22:10.480 feel it out. Once you're there is more scary because 2:22:10.560 --> 2:22:14.039 once you're there in person, a lot of communications breakdown 2:22:14.120 --> 2:22:16.520 between other you know other activists that that's what happened 2:22:16.560 --> 2:22:18.920 in like the last big rally in Portland is people 2:22:18.959 --> 2:22:20.960 try to know, change up plans once they got to 2:22:21.000 --> 2:22:23.800 the spot, and it kind of made everything a lot 2:22:23.920 --> 2:22:26.080 a lot more challenging because it's hard to a lot 2:22:26.160 --> 2:22:27.560 of a lot of people in block don't have their 2:22:27.600 --> 2:22:30.000 phone on them. It's just it's hard to get ride. 2:22:30.000 --> 2:22:32.080 It's you know, any kind of any kind of impromptu 2:22:32.280 --> 2:22:34.840 organizing at the site, it's always gonna be way more 2:22:34.920 --> 2:22:37.200 challenged than trying to figure this stuff out at home. 2:22:38.200 --> 2:22:40.800 And yeah, that's just kind of I don't know, it's 2:22:40.840 --> 2:22:42.720 it's I think I think the United the right to 2:22:43.760 --> 2:22:47.000 background is useful for like a big event after you know, 2:22:47.280 --> 2:22:50.840 a previous event that had a lot of coverage and 2:22:50.879 --> 2:22:53.080 had a lot of talk about it because it had, 2:22:53.160 --> 2:22:56.520 you know, a disastrous outcome. And then I think looking 2:22:56.560 --> 2:22:59.840 at you know, looking at November fourteen in December ten, 2:23:00.680 --> 2:23:03.640 um are also they are also kind of valuable indicators. 2:23:04.320 --> 2:23:06.800 Has there been any have you seen anything around the 2:23:06.879 --> 2:23:10.520 grapers or like any of the Fuentes crew showing up 2:23:10.520 --> 2:23:12.360 to this or they are they trying to just are 2:23:12.400 --> 2:23:14.880 they are they trying to like keep good optics. I 2:23:14.959 --> 2:23:18.560 guess I've as far as I've seen, they're mostly trying 2:23:18.640 --> 2:23:23.039 to keep good optics around us. Um they as They 2:23:23.160 --> 2:23:26.640 also kind of fall in through the category of like people, 2:23:26.760 --> 2:23:32.879 I'm not super worried about like some of them. Yeah, 2:23:33.000 --> 2:23:35.800 but in like a street fight situation, in a street 2:23:35.879 --> 2:23:40.720 fight less so I'm not worried about a groper. Yeah. 2:23:40.800 --> 2:23:43.960 The most violent encounter I've ever had with a groper 2:23:44.240 --> 2:23:47.760 was one that was probably five ft tall, following me 2:23:47.879 --> 2:23:50.760 around and calling me a soy boy for thirty minutes. Yeah. 2:23:50.840 --> 2:23:53.160 What I'm more concerned about is is Graper is kind 2:23:53.200 --> 2:23:58.119 of following the insal terrorism tradition of you know, skinny 2:23:58.440 --> 2:24:01.320 of skinny white guys get access to weapons and than 2:24:01.560 --> 2:24:06.280 than doing something with the gun is dangerous. Yeah. Yeah, 2:24:06.600 --> 2:24:12.000 and they're not going yeah, here finished what you were saying. Yeah, 2:24:12.000 --> 2:24:14.640 I'm just saying, like, you know, all all of the 2:24:14.680 --> 2:24:16.480 grapers I've seen, they're not going to beat me in 2:24:16.480 --> 2:24:20.360 a fist fight because they're all even even more not 2:24:20.840 --> 2:24:23.880 even more like because your fastest ship. But yeah and 2:24:24.120 --> 2:24:27.520 and that and that. Yeah, Yeah, I think that's kind 2:24:27.520 --> 2:24:31.519 of another thing that's you know, it's always a possibility 2:24:31.520 --> 2:24:34.600 of these things. Like I always say, like the worst 2:24:34.680 --> 2:24:38.840 possible outcome is someone someone starts shooting, like a firefight 2:24:39.000 --> 2:24:42.120 is always the worst way this could go. But with 2:24:42.480 --> 2:24:49.400 the sort of optics surrounding this, I I think there's 2:24:49.480 --> 2:24:58.199 definitely space for more extreme people, uh, specifically more accelerationist 2:24:58.320 --> 2:25:02.400 minded people who try to start something to try to 2:25:02.480 --> 2:25:05.520 cause some ship. I mean, uh, like I said, I'm 2:25:05.600 --> 2:25:11.640 in Virginia. I think of the Richmond gun rally in 2:25:11.920 --> 2:25:17.520 the lobby day in what was that twenty nineteen beginning 2:25:17.520 --> 2:25:22.440 of I Forget All Time is a flat circle to 2:25:22.520 --> 2:25:25.640 me now, But um, the members of the base that 2:25:25.720 --> 2:25:29.760 we're intercepted on their way to Richmond, Uh, I think 2:25:29.800 --> 2:25:36.520 about that situation and how other people and other groups 2:25:37.160 --> 2:25:42.320 that we will not talk about on pod could see 2:25:42.360 --> 2:25:45.360 an opportunity here. Yeah, and I think that's I think 2:25:45.400 --> 2:25:48.280 that's more likely happening in somewhere like DC than it 2:25:48.440 --> 2:25:50.440 is in Portland's right, because in Portland we have a 2:25:50.480 --> 2:25:54.520 pretty good grip on who shows up and why they 2:25:54.600 --> 2:26:00.280 show up. The East Coast, the south um northeast, south East, 2:26:00.600 --> 2:26:04.040 they have a lot more groups with interest with you know, 2:26:04.160 --> 2:26:08.120 obscure ideologies that are more think more prone to those 2:26:08.200 --> 2:26:11.640 types of to those types of like, um, more insurgent attacks. 2:26:11.720 --> 2:26:14.520 And I think people are on the West coast. Yeah, 2:26:14.680 --> 2:26:17.720 And I think another thing that kind of amplifies that is, 2:26:18.560 --> 2:26:23.160 like you said, like Portland has kind of an established 2:26:23.280 --> 2:26:31.120 infrastructure of chud fuckery, you know. I mean, I'm on 2:26:31.200 --> 2:26:33.280 the other side of the country, and I know the 2:26:33.440 --> 2:26:39.680 familiar faces of Portland's bullshit, and we we do have 2:26:39.800 --> 2:26:43.760 that to an extent. But d C brings people from 2:26:43.840 --> 2:26:47.600 all across the country. I was meeting people on the 2:26:47.680 --> 2:26:53.920 metro from everywhere from Tennessee to Kansas to California. And 2:26:54.120 --> 2:26:57.600 when people are coming in from such a broad range 2:26:57.640 --> 2:27:03.600 of places, there's a lot more uncertainty. Yeah, well, I'm 2:27:03.640 --> 2:27:06.200 not sure and anything else you want to mention about 2:27:06.280 --> 2:27:08.560 kind of what you expect at this rally and any 2:27:08.560 --> 2:27:10.800 I don't know, general advice has since you've been at 2:27:10.840 --> 2:27:14.640 the past three versions. Yeah, so, I mean, if you're 2:27:15.000 --> 2:27:19.199 in the DC area or you're nearby, and you're comfortable 2:27:19.280 --> 2:27:24.760 with it and physically able to do so, I show up. Um. 2:27:25.920 --> 2:27:29.000 The one thing that we do know for sure about 2:27:29.080 --> 2:27:33.800 these events is that the more bodies we have, the 2:27:34.040 --> 2:27:37.720 less likely it is for people to be able to 2:27:37.840 --> 2:27:43.360 pray on someone walking home from work or houseless person 2:27:43.560 --> 2:27:47.920 just trying to sleep. Yeah, the more bodies that we have, 2:27:48.120 --> 2:27:53.480 the better it is. Um, if you are either unable 2:27:53.520 --> 2:27:57.600 to come or you don't feel comfortable coming, I know 2:27:57.800 --> 2:28:02.480 that there will be jail support, mutual aid efforts UH 2:28:02.879 --> 2:28:06.080 and Garrison. I can send you to some links to 2:28:06.280 --> 2:28:10.400 local d C orgs. If you want to throw it 2:28:10.440 --> 2:28:15.600 in the show notes, sure, um, but yeah, just and 2:28:15.720 --> 2:28:20.800 if you're gonna go, be prepared, have have a buddy, UH, 2:28:21.320 --> 2:28:25.960 lock up, bring UH, bringing I fac and get ready 2:28:26.040 --> 2:28:29.200 to party. Yeah. I think that's one of the things 2:28:29.280 --> 2:28:32.320 you mentioned is like more numbers helps in the case 2:28:32.440 --> 2:28:36.160 of it's less likely they'll be like roaming attacks, because 2:28:36.160 --> 2:28:38.080 that's what we've seen at a lot of these rallies 2:28:38.200 --> 2:28:41.760 is that sometimes they don't ever like actually cause trouble 2:28:42.040 --> 2:28:44.640 at where people are, you know, like where the where 2:28:44.680 --> 2:28:47.119 the people are. They wait until people are walking away 2:28:47.240 --> 2:28:49.400 or going back to their car, or if there's no 2:28:49.440 --> 2:28:51.680 one like that, they just find some random person on 2:28:51.720 --> 2:28:53.200 the street. You know. We saw a lot of that 2:28:53.280 --> 2:28:56.360 in d C of of Proud Boys just finding kind 2:28:56.400 --> 2:28:58.760 of people in the area that they thought looked like 2:28:58.840 --> 2:29:02.000 Antifa quote unquot out and then just attacking them. Um. 2:29:02.520 --> 2:29:06.320 So you know, the less scattered people are, um, the 2:29:06.440 --> 2:29:10.520 less likely to get kind of those roaming attacks. Yeah, 2:29:10.680 --> 2:29:13.040 I think. I mean, it's it's always hard to speculate 2:29:13.080 --> 2:29:14.920 on the event, on an event that hasn't happened yet. 2:29:15.080 --> 2:29:17.720 But um, I believe by the time, by the time 2:29:17.800 --> 2:29:21.840 they see airs, it will be happening tomorrow. So as Saturday, 2:29:22.520 --> 2:29:25.240 THEO do you want to plug anything? Yeah, you can 2:29:25.400 --> 2:29:29.360 find me on Twitter, um at THEO Hansen THEO with 2:29:29.440 --> 2:29:35.360 a zero. Uh. Listen to my podcast Terrorism Bad. We 2:29:36.320 --> 2:29:40.480 look through portrayals of terrorism and extremism in popular media. 2:29:41.120 --> 2:29:43.520 See how it holds up to the real world. Um. 2:29:44.879 --> 2:29:47.600 Trying to think of anything else. I'll be there on Saturday. 2:29:47.640 --> 2:29:51.080 I'll be live tweeting the event. I'm not live tweeting 2:29:52.200 --> 2:29:56.800 that dead or otherwise incapacitated or I don't have cell service. 2:29:57.840 --> 2:30:01.320 Service is always horrible at these things. Oh it's awesome. Yeah, 2:30:01.400 --> 2:30:05.520 it's a constant problem. Yeah. They were blocking signals on 2:30:05.680 --> 2:30:08.119 January six on the Capitol lawn and when I stepped off, 2:30:08.200 --> 2:30:11.040 I had like thirteen texts from all my friends that 2:30:11.120 --> 2:30:14.760 were like, hey, text me if you're still alive. It's 2:30:14.800 --> 2:30:17.760 really hard to tell what's going on, you know, when 2:30:17.800 --> 2:30:19.480 you're when you're like whether or not it's like a 2:30:19.560 --> 2:30:21.960 cell signal problem, or if it's somebody like targeting you 2:30:22.040 --> 2:30:27.600 in particular, it's frustrating. Yeah, all right, well, thank you, Cel, 2:30:27.840 --> 2:30:33.280 thank you for giving us the rundown on Saturday's activities. Um, 2:30:33.440 --> 2:30:36.119 I hope you don't get shot. Thank you. I hope 2:30:36.120 --> 2:30:39.160 I do not as well. That's my general feeling towards 2:30:39.200 --> 2:30:42.640 anyone who shows up on uh, you know, on the 2:30:42.760 --> 2:30:45.440 eighteenth in d C. I hope you don't get shot. 2:30:46.400 --> 2:30:48.800 Do your best. Yeah, and if you do get shot, 2:30:49.280 --> 2:30:51.640 you know what to do about it? Well? Yeah, I 2:30:51.680 --> 2:30:56.040 have a have a care a minute, you know, have 2:30:56.240 --> 2:30:59.360 some cell locks. Yeah, that's ideal, but not getting shot 2:30:59.520 --> 2:31:03.520 is better. So you cannot remember what try not to 2:31:03.600 --> 2:31:06.680 get shot? All right, Thanks for having me on guys. 2:31:07.560 --> 2:31:10.480 Nice to meet you, Robert and Sophie. Thanks to meet you. 2:31:11.560 --> 2:31:14.760 You can follow us that Happened here pod on Twitter, 2:31:14.800 --> 2:31:16.840 Instagram and at cool Zone Media for all the things. 2:31:16.879 --> 2:31:23.920 And we'll be back on Monday. Hey, we'll be back Monday, 2:31:24.080 --> 2:31:27.000 with more episodes every week from now until the heat 2:31:27.040 --> 2:31:29.400 death of the universe. 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