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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know. This is a compiletion episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. You crack open a doctor pepper.

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Speaker 1: You know it'll only make you more thirsty in the

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Speaker 1: long run, but you need some liquid in your mouth,

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Speaker 1: and you're saving your remaining fifteen gallons for a quick shower.

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Speaker 1: The U haul is finally almost packed up. You may

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Speaker 1: be able to make it down to San Francisco in time.

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Speaker 1: Living in Redwood Valley has been nice the last few years.

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Speaker 1: It's a beautiful place, but in August of two, the

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Speaker 1: drought became too much. Late last year, California's new far

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Speaker 1: right governor lifted all water restrictions on farmers. This sparked

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Speaker 1: a new statewide race to use what water was available

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Speaker 1: before it ran out. Lake Mendesino was already low at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the year and for the first time

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Speaker 1: in your memory. It is now completely empty. San Francisco

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Speaker 1: isn't doing great either, but it's much better off than

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Speaker 1: where you live. The Russian River Watershed relies almost entirely

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Speaker 1: on rainfall and is isolated from state and federal aqueducts.

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Speaker 1: After the governor lifted water restrictions, new almond and pot

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Speaker 1: farms started sucking up ground water, and by the end

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Speaker 1: of the summer they started pumping from the river to

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Speaker 1: feed their thirsty crops. By mid July, your town implemented

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Speaker 1: a twenty five gallon limit per person per day. That's

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Speaker 1: about as much water as you go through during a

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Speaker 1: five minute shower. The first thing you sacrificed was your garden.

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Speaker 1: Then you stopped flushing after you peid. These tweaks added up, though,

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Speaker 1: and without water, the lifestyle you'd love to just stopped

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Speaker 1: being possible. Your brother in San Francisco offered to let

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Speaker 1: you move in with him. You weren't a fan of

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Speaker 1: the big city, but at least you'd be able to

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Speaker 1: shower again. And so you find yourself sipping an empty

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Speaker 1: soda can and loading up your last few boxes into

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Speaker 1: the U haul. You give your brother a quick call,

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Speaker 1: saying you're all packed up and about to head out.

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Speaker 1: He sounds worried and mentioned something about his school letting

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Speaker 1: new teachers go to to budget cuts. You can't really

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Speaker 1: afford to think about that. Now. You just need to leave,

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Speaker 1: since you're all sweaty from loading the U hall the

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Speaker 1: last few days. You decided to hop into the shower

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Speaker 1: one last time. You knew it wouldn't last long, but

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Speaker 1: you still seem surprised when the water turned off after

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Speaker 1: what felt like only two minutes. You quickly dry off

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Speaker 1: and grab some clean clothes from your backpack and throw

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Speaker 1: your damp towel into the passenger seat of the truck.

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Speaker 1: You say goodbye to your home of ten years and

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Speaker 1: to your old succulent plants, and begin the three hour

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Speaker 1: drive down to San Francisco. Water scarcity is a problem

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Speaker 1: you're probably already familiar with, especially if you live in

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Speaker 1: the Southwest. California has dealt with particularly brutal droughts over

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Speaker 1: the last twenty years, and the Golden States water problems

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Speaker 1: could be about to get much much worse, because in

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Speaker 1: just a few days, California might find itself helmed by

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Speaker 1: a far right governor with a near religious hatred of

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Speaker 1: water conservation. Electoral politics are not generally a big focus

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Speaker 1: on this show, but what's going on in the state

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Speaker 1: of California could have serious implications for many people, including

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Speaker 1: those outside the West Coast. The ongoing recall campaign against

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Speaker 1: Governor Gavin Newsom started out in June of twenty with

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Speaker 1: Republican politicians and activists unhappy with Newsom's handling of the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Newsom's opposition to President Trump's cracked down on undocumented immigrants

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Speaker 1: also played a role. This is actually the fifth recall

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Speaker 1: attempt against Newsom since he took office in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: but it's the first one to gain traction. It's fueled

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Speaker 1: in part by Newsom's own hypocrisy and hubris. On November six,

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Speaker 1: the recall effort gained court approval for a signature gathering extension,

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Speaker 1: and later that night, Governor Newsom went to a birthday

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Speaker 1: party for a Sacramento lobbyist and friend at French Laundry,

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Speaker 1: a pricing Napa Valley restaurant. Soon after, photo surface of

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Speaker 1: Newsom mingling massless at the packed restaurant. He faced heavy

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Speaker 1: criticism and apologized, but the damage was done. Republicans latched

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Speaker 1: onto this as an opportunity to finally push the recall

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Speaker 1: effort through. The recall petition, which had only fifty five

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Speaker 1: thousand of five signatures on the day of the dinner,

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Speaker 1: had nearly half a million a month after the November

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Speaker 1: sixth incident. California's recall process is probably the least democratic

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Speaker 1: one in the United States. Gathering signatures to authorize a

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Speaker 1: recall election is a pretty standard thing, but California has

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Speaker 1: among the lowest signature requirements and states that allow for

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Speaker 1: the recall of an official. Most states require that the

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Speaker 1: recall campaign must gather signatures equal to of the votes

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Speaker 1: cast in the last election. California requires just twelve percent

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Speaker 1: for executive officials. The l A Times notes quote that

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Speaker 1: might have been a high bar in nineteen eleven when

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Speaker 1: the population was scattered across the seven hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: mile length of the state, But is it too low

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Speaker 1: in one when petitions for ballot measures are gathered and

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Speaker 1: moss by paid staff and parking lots. And That's not

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Speaker 1: the only questionable aspect of California's recall process. On recall

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Speaker 1: election day, voters will face two questions on the ballot, first,

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Speaker 1: yes or no on whether to recall Governor Gavin Newsom

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Speaker 1: from office. Second, and this one is technically option And

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Speaker 1: if so, who among the forty six candidates do you

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Speaker 1: want to take his place? The first question is decided

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Speaker 1: by a simple majority, just like other ballot measures, but

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the second question, the percentage requirements change.

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Speaker 1: The replacement candidate doesn't need more than fifty percent to win,

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Speaker 1: so if more than fifty percent of the voters say

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Speaker 1: yes on the recall question, Governor Newsom must step down,

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Speaker 1: even if he has more overall support than any other

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Speaker 1: individual challenger on the ballot. The replacement question is determined

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Speaker 1: by who gets the most votes among the challengers on

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Speaker 1: the ballot, which Newsom cannot be on. So forty nine

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Speaker 1: point nine percent of the voters can back Mr Newsom,

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Speaker 1: and he can still lose to someone who is supported

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Speaker 1: by only, say, twenty percent of the electorate, or even

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Speaker 1: a smaller fraction. For other California elections, including special elections

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Speaker 1: triggered by the death or resignation of an official, a

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Speaker 1: candidate cannot win without the support of a majority of voters.

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Speaker 1: If a candidate doesn't win over fifty percent outright then

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Speaker 1: the top to compete in a runoff election, not the

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Speaker 1: case for California's recall process. Organizers of the recall campaign

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Speaker 1: submitted two point one million signatures by the March seventeenth

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Speaker 1: filing deadline. One million, seven hundred nineteen thousand, nine hundred

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Speaker 1: signatures were ultimately determined to have been valid, which was

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Speaker 1: enough to trigger the recall. The deadline for casting your

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Speaker 1: vote is September fourteenth. If the recall succeeds, the new

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Speaker 1: governor would be in office for the remainder of mister

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Speaker 1: Newsom's term through January second, twenty twenty three, and that

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Speaker 1: leaves a lot of time for Executive Fuccory, especially considering

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Speaker 1: the new front runner. Far right radio talk show host

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Speaker 1: and frequent Fox guest Larry Elder, has emerged as the

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Speaker 1: likely candidate to replace Newsom in the event the recall

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Speaker 1: goes through. Elder, who was sixty nine, jumped into the

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Speaker 1: race relatively late in the game during mid July. At

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Speaker 1: that time, it was more of a toss up between

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Speaker 1: Republican candidates Kevin Falconer, a former San Diego mayre, and

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Speaker 1: businessman John Cox, who lost badly to Newsom. In the

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen gubernatorial election, Assemblyman Kevin Kiley and former athlete

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Speaker 1: in media personality Caton Jinner pulled less well, but as

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Speaker 1: Larry Elder entered the race, he almost immediately became the

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Speaker 1: front runner in polls and raised lots of money from

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Speaker 1: small donors. In the three weeks after he announced his campaign,

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Speaker 1: he raised nearly four and a half million dollars, according

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Speaker 1: to fundraising disclosures. That's more than every other Republican challenger,

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Speaker 1: Sand's multi millionaire businessman John Cox, who's largely funding his

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Speaker 1: own campaign. Elder has been a central figurehead of the

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Speaker 1: right wing radio talk show scene since the nineties, but

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Speaker 1: has always been hesitant to run for public office, deeming

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Speaker 1: the state of California ungovernable due to its liberal supermajority.

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Speaker 1: But after talking with his friend and mentor Dennis Praeger

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Speaker 1: of the neo fascist propaganda outlet Praeger You, he figured

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Speaker 1: it might be worth a shot, and has expressed desire

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Speaker 1: to use the emergency powers of the governor to push

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Speaker 1: the state right words. Elder was born in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: but moved to Cleveland to attend law school and opened

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Speaker 1: his own firm in nineteen eighty. Elder's career began as

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Speaker 1: a bit of an accident. He'd been invited on a

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Speaker 1: Cleveland station as a guest. He did so well on

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Speaker 1: air that when the regular host went on accation the

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Speaker 1: following week, the program director asked Elder to fill in.

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Speaker 1: Soon enough, Elder had his own weekly time slot on

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Speaker 1: the Cleveland station. In the early nineties, a guest host

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Speaker 1: from Los Angeles, Dennis Prager, visited Cleveland. Elder quickly impressed

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Speaker 1: Praeger with his on air wit and talent, coupled with

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Speaker 1: the uniqueness of a black man openly expressing extreme conservative views.

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Speaker 1: Praeger persuaded his home station KBC in Los Angeles to

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Speaker 1: give Elder a shot. Quoting the l A Times, Elder

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Speaker 1: returned to his hometown in nine four, two years after

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Speaker 1: the civil unrest following the acquittal of the officers who

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Speaker 1: beat Rodney King and in the midst of the O. J.

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Speaker 1: Simpson murder case. The program director at rival KFI, David G. Hall,

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Speaker 1: felt KBC made a creative move bringing on this guy

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Speaker 1: from South Central who swung the other way on race.

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Speaker 1: Almost from the beginning. The self proclaimed sage from South

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Speaker 1: Central whipped up a fewer. He mixed soundbites from Representative

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Speaker 1: Maxine Waters with a recording of a barking dog. He said,

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Speaker 1: blacks exaggerate the significance of racism, while women did the

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Speaker 1: same in regards to sexism. For nearly four years, Elder

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Speaker 1: has slapped many members of his own race in the

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Speaker 1: face on radio, belittling them as whiners or losers, holding

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Speaker 1: himself up as a model of African American excellence. He's

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Speaker 1: become a darling of white listeners, who seemed to almost

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Speaker 1: gush when they telephone him on k ABC Talk radio.

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Speaker 1: They are astonished to find a black man who not

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Speaker 1: only isn't going to chastise them, but who also often

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Speaker 1: agreed with them, a black man who declared that race

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Speaker 1: was no longer a significant factor in American society. Elder

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Speaker 1: also doesn't believe that racial profiling exists. This is despite

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Speaker 1: telling The Times editorial Board that police pulled him over

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Speaker 1: between seventy five and a hundred times the first year

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Speaker 1: he had his driver's license. Elder's regressive, provocative content angered

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Speaker 1: Mine Angelinos and black citizens of California led a boycott

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Speaker 1: of advertisers on the show. It worked, and by the

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Speaker 1: late nineties the show had begun losing millions in AD revenue,

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Speaker 1: But thanks to syndication, changing networks, podcasts, and TV appearances,

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Speaker 1: Elder has been able to remain a central figure of

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Speaker 1: the right wing cont and sphere. He most recently starred

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Speaker 1: in a video series for far right propaganda organization and

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Speaker 1: literal cult, The Epoch Times. According to Elder's campaign, the

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Speaker 1: Central recall issues, He's focusing on our rampant crime, rising homelessness,

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Speaker 1: out of control costs of living, water shortages, disastrous wildfires,

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Speaker 1: rolling brown outs, and repressive COVID restrictions. For this show,

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Speaker 1: we'll be focusing on the last three as they relate

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Speaker 1: to the rapidly shifting and hostile climate. For the past

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Speaker 1: thirty years, Elder has been a classic conservative climate denier.

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Speaker 1: He had a whole section of his website devoted to

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Speaker 1: debunking the Gore bull warming myth. Like Al Gore bullshit

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Speaker 1: warming myth, Yeah, it's a bad pun. In a CNN

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Speaker 1: interview prior to the two thousand eight election, Elder called

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Speaker 1: global warming a false myth, while disparaging and making fun

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Speaker 1: of both John McCain and George W. Bush for discussing

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Speaker 1: global warming is a serious issue. However, more recently, Elder

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Speaker 1: has shifted his rhetoric around the climate. In an interview

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Speaker 1: last month, he expressed belief that some warming is taking place,

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Speaker 1: but by using old soft denialist talking points. Climate is

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Speaker 1: always changing. Of course, the climate is changing. The question

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Speaker 1: is what do we do about it? Do we deal

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Speaker 1: with the effects of it, or do we force feed

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Speaker 1: renewables based economy down the throats of people, jacking up

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Speaker 1: the price of energy a disproportionate pain for poor people.

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Speaker 1: But of course there's climate change, and the climate is

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Speaker 1: getting warmer, and maybe about a degree or so in

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Speaker 1: the last several years, and it will likely continue. He adds,

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Speaker 1: what I don't believe in is climate change alarmism. He

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Speaker 1: also said that he was not sure whether climate change

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Speaker 1: is making wildfires worse. Quote fires have gotten worse because

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Speaker 1: the failure of this governor to engage in sensible fire suppression.

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Speaker 1: Elder also blames California's rising housing costs on environmental extremists

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Speaker 1: that jack up the cost of housing so that developers

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Speaker 1: have to wait and wait and get sued over and over.

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Speaker 1: Agains that finally, when the home is built it's way

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Speaker 1: more expensive than otherwise it would be without these environmental

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Speaker 1: rules and regulations. Despite the slight back pedaling on climate

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Speaker 1: for better media optics, his potential policies on the topic

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Speaker 1: are just as horrendous as one might assume. In a

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Speaker 1: recent video news conference, Elder declared that he would in

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Speaker 1: the war on oil and gas and the attack on

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Speaker 1: the logging industry, while also reducing regulation on fracking and

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Speaker 1: stopping California's growing efforts to expand wind and solar power,

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Speaker 1: which he calls not very efficient. Elder did not mention

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Speaker 1: climate change during his news conference. Water scarcity will be

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Speaker 1: an increasingly severe concern for California in the coming years.

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Speaker 1: Drought is already a major political talking point among voters

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Speaker 1: and politicians, and it creates another rift between city folk

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Speaker 1: and rural farmers. Farmers are having a harder time growing

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Speaker 1: crops and feel threatened by water rationing. They're frustrated by

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Speaker 1: the thought that the Democrats running cities will always prioritize

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Speaker 1: pumping extra water into population dense areas. Meanwhile, people in

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Speaker 1: cities are concerned they will be forced to cut back

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Speaker 1: on personal water use as almond farmers suck up tons

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Speaker 1: of water to feed their droops. Just building more dams

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Speaker 1: and water catchment systems or aquifers may seem like a

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Speaker 1: solution and have done property. Some of those things might help,

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Speaker 1: but they can't make up for a lack of rainfall

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Speaker 1: and snow melt. Relying on river water has its own problems.

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Speaker 1: Pulling too much from fresh water that flows through rivers

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Speaker 1: allows for extra salt water to intrude from the bay,

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Speaker 1: and ocean salinity in the water negatively impacts local ecosystems

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Speaker 1: and dirties what is supposed to be a freshwater source.

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Speaker 1: Drought is simultaneously pushing migratory fish species like chinook salmon

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Speaker 1: and steelhead trout closer to the brink of extinction. Large

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Speaker 1: numbers of fish are dying off because the rivers they

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Speaker 1: rely on as spawning habitats are too warm or too low.

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Speaker 1: Anxiety around water, droughts, and crops as among the issues

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Speaker 1: driving some people to vote yes on the recall. A

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Speaker 1: poll conducted last July by the Public Policy Institute of

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Speaker 1: California found that residents sited drought and water supply as

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Speaker 1: their top environmental concern, with about twenty calling it their

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Speaker 1: chief concern. Which makes it pull well above the related

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Speaker 1: problems of wildfires, air pollution, and climate change. Republican politicians

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Speaker 1: have been using anxiety around drought to drum up support

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Speaker 1: for the recall by blaming the current situation on Newsom.

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Speaker 1: The original recall petition against Newsom from early warned that

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Speaker 1: the governor quote seeks to impose additional burdens on our state,

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Speaker 1: including rationing our water use. Last April, Governor Newsom did

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Speaker 1: declare a drought emergency into northwest California counties. The order

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Speaker 1: allowed state officials to restrict the amount of water diverted

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Speaker 1: from the Russian River and authorized the relocation of fish

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Speaker 1: stranded in drying puddles. The local county government asked residents

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Speaker 1: to use no more than fifty gallons per day per person,

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Speaker 1: but Newsom himself hasn't mandated water rationing for individual consumers,

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Speaker 1: though he has asked Californians to voluntarily cut consumption by

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent and has suggested that statewide restrictions could be

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Speaker 1: on the table if conditions worsened. Heading into the fall,

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Speaker 1: Newsom in the Department of Water Resources as a whole

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Speaker 1: do have ideas in mind for tackling this issue. Last year,

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Speaker 1: Newsom authorized an eleven billion dollar water infrastructure project building

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Speaker 1: a single thirty mile tunnel under the Sacramento, San Joaque

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Speaker 1: and River Delta. The project, which has been discussed for years,

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Speaker 1: is being pushed forward in hopes that it will protect

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Speaker 1: the Delta's existing wetland ecosystem and supply enough fresh clean

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Speaker 1: water to be diverted south for the rest of the state.

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Speaker 1: But the tunnel concept has faced opposition both locally and

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Speaker 1: from conservation minded folks. Some residents in the Delta regency

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Speaker 1: it is just a water grab to meet the demands

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Speaker 1: of southern California and the agriculture industry while the needs

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Speaker 1: of those up north are being ignored. Ecologically focused critics

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Speaker 1: say it could still increase salinity in the Delta and

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Speaker 1: result in notable harm for the ecosystem. Newsom has more

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Speaker 1: recently discussed other action and legislation to help mitigate the

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Speaker 1: continued drought, quoting the San Francisco Chronicle. In July, the

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Speaker 1: governor signed a state budget that includes five point one

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Speaker 1: billion dollars over four years for new water infrastructure and

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Speaker 1: drought preparation projects, including money to repair delivery canals help

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Speaker 1: farmers irrigrate crops more efficiently in start water recycling projects. Still,

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Speaker 1: Newsom's recent actions have done little to quell anger among

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Speaker 1: many farmers, who say the state's failure to plan for

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Speaker 1: another major drought just a few years after it exited

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Speaker 1: the last one has put them on the brink of ruin.

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Speaker 1: Ernest Buddy Mendez, a lifelong farmer in Fresno County and

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Speaker 1: Republican county supervisor, said he was forced to let hundreds

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Speaker 1: of acres where he used to o cotton and wheat

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00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 1: dry up this year after his allotment of river water

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Speaker 1: was slashed to zero. He's relying on groundwater pumped from

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Speaker 1: wells to keep his grove of almond trees alive. Mendez

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Speaker 1: said he hasn't decided whom to support as a replacement candidate,

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Speaker 1: and the recall just that he will vote Hell Yeah

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Speaker 1: to remove Newsom. Let's face at Newsom. Damn is a

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Speaker 1: four letter word, Mendez said, we haven't done anything in

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Speaker 1: twenty years about building storage. California already does have one

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Speaker 1: of the most extensive damn systems in the country, with

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Speaker 1: nearly fifteen hundred reservoirs. Building new on river dams would

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Speaker 1: cost billions of dollars if such efforts even survive legal challenges,

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Speaker 1: which are all but guaranteed amid the struggle to save

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Speaker 1: endangered fish species, there are not many areas left that

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Speaker 1: would make sense or be sustainable to build a new

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Speaker 1: large reservoir. One other, more cost effective solution could be

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Speaker 1: to store more water collected during wet years and underground aquifers.

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Speaker 1: One of the solutions to this problem is the same

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Speaker 1: as the solution to a number of other climate related problems,

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Speaker 1: which is that we simply have to cut the amount

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Speaker 1: of resources we're consuming, whether that means reducing our inner

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Speaker 1: ge use or cutting down on wasteful water use. You

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Speaker 1: can only build so many dams. The trend of California

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Speaker 1: farmers growing thirstier crops has made an existing problem much worse. Today,

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Speaker 1: the state produces three times as many acres of almonds

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Speaker 1: as it did twenty five years ago. With California most

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Speaker 1: likely entering a third straight year of disappointing rainfall and

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Speaker 1: snow melt, anxiety around drought and increased severity of water

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00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,120
Speaker 1: restrictions won't get any better, And if the Lenina weather

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Speaker 1: pattern hits the West coast as it's poised to That

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Speaker 1: would mean the western US will have a drier and

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00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,439
Speaker 1: hotter winter than average. Last August, water regulators made an

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Speaker 1: unprecedented move to begin cracking down on water use in

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Speaker 1: the sprawling Sacramento River in San Joaquin River watersheds, ordering farmers,

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00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,119
Speaker 1: water districts, and other landowners, including the City of San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: to stop drawing water from the basins of the river

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Speaker 1: or face penalties of up to ten thousand dollars a day.

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Speaker 1: The city has enough water in its reservoirs to meet

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Speaker 1: demand for at least a couple of years, and stored

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Speaker 1: water is not affected by the state restrictions. Water agencies

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Speaker 1: also can seek an exemption from curtailments of human health

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Speaker 1: or safety or compromised. This does hit rural areas and

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Speaker 1: agriculture the hardest, because most cities have alternative supplies and

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Speaker 1: stored water to tap into. Looking to attract voters, Larry

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00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,960
Speaker 1: Elder and other Republican challengers to Newsom have made it

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Speaker 1: a recurring point to say that farmers should not have

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Speaker 1: to endure such cuts, but they don't really give any

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Speaker 1: perspective solutions to prevent rationing. When water levels at reservoirs, lakes,

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Speaker 1: and wells are all plummeting. Larry Elder said drought is

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Speaker 1: not inevitable and said he supports building more reservoirs and

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Speaker 1: dams to store runoff, but he has also voice support

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Speaker 1: for permitting to salinization projects. The salinization devastates ocean life,

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Speaker 1: costs much more than other alternatives, and uses tons of energy. Also,

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Speaker 1: soon it will be made obsolete by increasing focus on

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Speaker 1: water recycling. Explaining to salonization quickly, ocean water is collected

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Speaker 1: and run through pipes to remove the largest solids, and

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00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 1: then pump through reverse osmosis filters to remove salt, while

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00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 1: fish and other creatures die upon being sucked in or

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Speaker 1: just from the force of the water flow. In a

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Speaker 1: report studying it is salinization plant in the early two thousands,

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Speaker 1: it was found that on average over a five year period,

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Speaker 1: nineteen point four billion larva were caught up at intakes

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Speaker 1: and about two point seven million fish, along with marine

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Speaker 1: mammals and sea turtles were killed by intake equipment. For

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Speaker 1: every gallon of drinking water to salinization leaves another gallon

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Speaker 1: of salty brine behind. The plants then just mix that

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Speaker 1: with two parts ocean water before pumping it back into

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Speaker 1: the ocean. These measures can negatively impact the environment for

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Speaker 1: this generation and generations to come. This type of resource

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00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 1: extract of thinking reflects how we got into the problem

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Speaker 1: in the first place. Battling over water allotments will only

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00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 1: get us so far when dealing with lackluster rainfall. What

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00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,880
Speaker 1: can help is permaculture programs to help farmers learn ways

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Speaker 1: to irrigate more effectively and cultivate healthier soils that retain water.

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Speaker 1: Moving away from water heavy crops like almonds and towards

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Speaker 1: more sustainable and moisture efficient crops must also be done

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Speaker 1: if we want to stave off the worst effects. Putting

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00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 1: Larry Elder in office won't make it rain, but it

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00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 1: will put the state at least another year further behind

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Speaker 1: on taking the kind of action necessary to ensure California

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00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 1: remains habitable. The last few months in San Francisco have

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Speaker 1: been honestly better than you expected. Still hot and dry,

390
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 1: but now that you're in fall, the heat has become manageable.

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00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 1: In the Bay Area, at least, staying with your brother

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00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 1: has been actually really nice. The first few showers felt

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00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 1: like luxury, recently, he's had less of a good time.

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00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,640
Speaker 1: He found out he was getting laid off right before

395
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 1: the school year started. He told me. Over fifteen thousand

396
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 1: other teachers have been fired as a part of the

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00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: governor's new reform schools program. The teacher's union is fighting it,

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Speaker 1: but your brother isn't too optimistic of regarding the outcome.

399
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 1: He's been looking for new work, and meanwhile, you've gotten

400
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 1: a shitty retail job to help with bills while you

401
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,919
Speaker 1: decide on what hospitals you want to apply to. You

402
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 1: don't really miss your old MS job in Redwood Valley.

403
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: When you finally do get back into medical care, you

404
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: really prefer something in a hospital or clinic setting as

405
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: opposed to the extra stress inherent in emergency services. The

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00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 1: one chance you have had to use your medical skills

407
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 1: since moving was during the fires last September and October

408
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: back up north. They got really bad and hundreds of

409
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 1: thousands of people evacuated. Down South, some old activist friends

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00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 1: of yours from college made their own fire relief slash

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00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: Mutual Aid, set up to give out clothes and food

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00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: and to help people displaced by the fires. You haven't

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00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 1: talked much with your old college buddies in the past

414
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 1: few years, but upon hearing of the relief effort, you

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00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: happily offered up your skills to help with minor medical

416
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 1: issues in a smell medic tent they set up. It

417
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: was the first time you've helped with anything related to

418
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,360
Speaker 1: protests organizing since you moved up to Redwood Valley ten

419
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: years ago. It was oddly refreshing. Politics hasn't been a

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00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 1: major part of your life since college. But speaking of politics,

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00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: mid term ms are finally this month. The past year

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00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 1: has felt like it stretched on forever. Your brother and

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00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: his union buddies have been doing canvassing for a few

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00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: progressive city council candidates that might actually get a shot

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00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: at getting in. You haven't had time to adjust to

426
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: San Francisco's local political scene, and honestly, you're not sure

427
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: if you really care to. You have been keeping half

428
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: an eye on the big state electoral races, though, which

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00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: feels kind of weird. You know, there's no way the

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00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: Republican governor will get reelected, not here in California. One

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00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 1: thing that has gotten you worried is the weekly anti

432
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 1: election fraud rallies that have been happening in l A.

433
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 1: Ever since October, the governor, surrounded by state troopers, has

434
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 1: made it down himself a few times to drop up

435
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: support from his fan base, and after the rallies, roving

436
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: gangs of far right extremists have gone around randomly attacking

437
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: homeless encampments. You heard that just last week after a

438
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 1: Sunday rally, three people had to be rushed to the

439
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: emergency room. It's now just a week before Action Day.

440
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: You're on the bus home from your job at the

441
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: vintage clothing store when you receive a message on signal

442
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: from one of your old college mutual aid buddies you

443
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: met up with again during the fire relief effort. The

444
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: message reads, hey, are you free on election Day? You

445
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: hadn't really thought about the day itself, You respond, maybe

446
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: nothing really planned yet. Your friend replies with a fat

447
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: wall of text. My affinity group and I are heading

448
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: down to l A on Tuesday. There's a big stop

449
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: the steel type rally happening, and where it is, lots

450
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: of proud boys are gonna show up. Comrades in l

451
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: A have put out some calls for support, so my

452
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: crew is going to go down and probably bring some

453
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: medical stuff. If you want to come, we got an

454
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: extra seat in the van. The thought of driving down

455
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles to deal with proud boys doesn't excite you,

456
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: especially on an already stressful day. You think about it

457
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: for a few minutes. Images of the people maimed during

458
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: and after the recent rallies floods your mind. Your buddies

459
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: know more about organizing and protests than you do, but

460
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: you have more medical training. You decide you'll do it.

461
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: You reply, I'll come with and pack some extra effects

462
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: and tourniquets. Among the issues of Republican recall, challengers have

463
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 1: raised to attack newsom, forced mismanagement has leomed large among

464
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: the recent complaints. This type of thing hearkens back to

465
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: Trump's old habit of blaming the governor and not raking

466
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: enough leaves for California's fiery plight. On a larger scale,

467
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: this can be seen as part of an effort to

468
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 1: push all the blame of wildfires off of oil gas

469
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: and our transformation of the climate and onto a simple

470
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: lack of fire prevention measures. This narrative, of course, makes

471
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: the fossil fuel industry more happy. The thing is, all

472
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: of these things are contributing factors for California's wildfire problem.

473
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: Climate changed caused hotter temperatures and droughts makes fires easier

474
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: to catch and spread, and inadequate forest management, plus above

475
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: ground power lines do the same. Just because there are

476
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: bad faith attacks on Newsom doesn't mean there aren't actual

477
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: failures he's made as governor, especially in relation to the forests.

478
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: An investigation from CAP Radio and California MPR published last

479
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: June found out Newsom had grossly misrepresented and fled out

480
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: lied about his promises of new wildfire prevention efforts. Elements

481
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: of the piece were, of course, used by Larry Elder

482
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: and the Right to push for support of the recall,

483
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: but the article itself is a very fine piece of journalism.

484
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: Back when Newsom first took office in January twenty nine,

485
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: one of the first things he did was signed on

486
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: executive order overhauling how California handles wildfire prevention and forest management.

487
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 1: The measures included removal of hazardous dead trees, vegetation clearing,

488
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: creation of fuel breaks and community defensible spaces, and creation

489
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: of ingress and e dressed corridors. In January twenty a

490
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: year after Newsom's initial announcement. The Governor's office claimed in

491
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: a press release that under the Executive Orders Priority Projects,

492
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: ninety acres got treated with these fire prevention measures, but

493
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: according to data attained by CAP Radio and MPR, the

494
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: actual number of acres treated by these priority projects was

495
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: only eleven thousand, three hundred and ninety nine, just thirteen

496
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: percent of the number Newsome boasted about, quoting the piece

497
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: by CAP Radio quote data shows cal Fire's fuel reduction

498
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: output dropped by half and twenty twenty two, levels below

499
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: Governor Jerry Brown's final year in office. At the same time,

500
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: Newsom slashed roughly one hundred and fifty million dollars from

501
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: cow Fire's wildfire prevention budget. In four point three million

502
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: acres burned, the most in California's recorded history. That was

503
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: more than double the previous record set in eighteen when

504
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: the Camp fire destroyed the town of Paradise, ultimately killing

505
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: eighty five people. A decade ago, cal Fire was treating

506
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: a poultry seventeen thousand acres annually. That number has steadily climbed.

507
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: Though Newso misrepresented the number of acres treated in his

508
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: priority projects. The overall amount of wildfire mitigation work carried

509
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: out by cal Fire spiked in his first year of

510
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: office to sixty four thousand acres, but in fuel reduction

511
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: totals plummeted to less than thirty two acres, a roughly

512
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: fifty drop unquote. Multiple factors contributed to twenty twenties subpar

513
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: fire prevention and reduction efforts in the year, with the

514
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: large number of acres treated in recent history. The state

515
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: budget allotted for three hundred and fifty five million dollars

516
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: for wildfire prevention and resource management, but after the COVID

517
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: nineteen pandemic hit California in early Newsom cut the budget

518
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: down to two hundred and three million. On top of

519
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: the budget cuts, the fires themselves made prevention work more challenging.

520
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: Twenties wildfire season started out early, which resulted in less

521
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: time to do prescribed burns and thinnings because the same

522
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: teams that are tasked with prevention and fuel reduction often

523
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: also serve as firefighters once the fires break out. As

524
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: of MAE, cal Fire has treated over twenty three thod

525
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: acres throughout the year. This puts California on a trajectory

526
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: better than last year's total, but not as high as

527
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: the sixty thousand plus acres treated in Newsom has been

528
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: trying to make up for his missteps and gross exaggerations.

529
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: Quoting the Cap Radio report again, quote, Newsom is trying

530
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: to play catch up with the state enjoying an unexpected surplus.

531
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: Newsome proposed two billion in spending on wildfires and emergency preparedness,

532
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: with one point two billion going towards wildfire resiliency in

533
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: the upcoming budget. Experts say the increase in prevention spending

534
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: could help the state get closer to a less day

535
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: DRISS wildfire season over time, but they also expressed concern

536
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: over whether the state will sustain that commitment for years

537
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: to come. Unquote. Revelations about Newsom's and cow fires lies

538
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: and lackluster force management were quickly jumped on by Larry

539
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: Elder and other Republican challengers as an easy way to

540
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: attack Newsom and to move the conversation about wildfires away

541
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: from climate change. Elder has said he has quote unquote

542
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: no idea why more prevention and reduction measures aren't being done,

543
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: and when he becomes governor, he'll be a quote implementing

544
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: these common sensical kinds of plans so that we can

545
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: reduce the severity of these fires unquote. Elder has given

546
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: no concrete plans on what measures he'll be shooting to implement,

547
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: or any indication on how much money will be directed

548
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: to prevent or fight fires on the noted budgets. Elder

549
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: has said that the more recent spending on wind and

550
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: solar power has left quote less money for removing trees

551
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: and putting power lines underground, the kind of things that

552
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: would make these fires less intense unquote, And he promises

553
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: to drastically cut spending on renewables while also investing more

554
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: in oil and gas. To be clear, Newsom's upcoming budget

555
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: contains billions for both fire prevention, slash fuel reduction, and

556
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: renewable energy such as wind and solar. Whoever ends up

557
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: governing California is not only in charge of local politics.

558
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: Like governors at other states. What happens in California affects

559
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: people across the country and even globally, whether that's wildfire

560
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: smoke traveling across continents, or changes to supply chains and

561
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: industry rippling across the world. California is, after all, the

562
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: world's fifth largest economy. There are also political ramifications that

563
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: could affect the States as a whole. If Elder gets

564
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: in office, the Senate is currently a fifty fifty split

565
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: between Republicans and Democrats, with Vice President Kamala Harris getting

566
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: the tie breaking vote. One of California's senators is eighty

567
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: eight year old Diane Feinstein, the oldest active Senator. If

568
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: she dies in office or has to step down due

569
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: to medical reasons before her term is over, the governor

570
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: of California gets to appoint her replacement. If Elder appoints

571
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 1: a Republican, then the Senate will be back under geop

572
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: control and give it his connections to the far right

573
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: media sphere. The list of potentials that Elder could appoint

574
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: is frightening. This is by no means inevitable even if

575
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: Elder gets into office. If he does, Finstein does have

576
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: the brief opportunity to step down and put a replacement

577
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: in before the new governor has sworn into office. However,

578
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: Feinstein has said she has no plans of doing so.

579
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: Reports of her declining health have become only more common

580
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: in recent years, but like many politicians and judges, she's

581
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: not keen on stepping aside, even to possibly help prevent

582
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: a disastrous outcome. Changes in the Senate are not required

583
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: for horrible outcomes. In the wake of an even brief

584
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: Elder governorship, his anti VAX sentiments and planned to open

585
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: up the state and remove basically all COVID restrictions will

586
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,719
Speaker 1: result in hospitals being pushed to max capacity. Elder has

587
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: said he has plans to appoint education officials similar to

588
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: former Secretary Betsy Divas, and judicial appointees like Conservative Supreme

589
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,719
Speaker 1: Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Elder has stated his intention of

590
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: declaring states of emergency and using executive orders to push

591
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: through otherwise unpopular legislation. He has discussed plans to declare

592
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: an education emergency in order to fire upwards of twenty

593
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: one quote unquote bad teachers. Elder blames teacher unions for

594
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 1: quote protecting bad teachers, and in a recent interview stated,

595
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: quote someone told me that between five percent and seven

596
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 1: percent of public school teachers need to be fired. An

597
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: emergency declaration would give the power to get rid of

598
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: bad teachers faster than the system allows. Once you did that, automatically,

599
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: education would improve overnight unquote. Now, Elder is not specified

600
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: who had advised him on teacher terminations or how he

601
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: plans to weed out the so called bad teachers out

602
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: of the three thousand in the school system. He's also

603
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: touted plans to declare a homeless emergency, but his solutions

604
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with actually helping homeless people. His

605
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: homeless emergency declaration would allow him to suspend the California

606
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: Environmental Quality Act, the long requiring environmental review of building projects.

607
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: Elders stated goal is to unleash developers and contractors without

608
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: environmental regulation, which he claims to quote tries developers and

609
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: contractors like criminals, unquote, and allows building projects to get

610
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: suspended indefinitely, ultimately raising the cost of housing in his opinion.

611
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: One of the more frightening aspects of Larry Elder is

612
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: his close ties to many far right propagandists. He's done

613
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: work for Praker You Epic times, and has been a

614
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: guest on Fox News at least two hundred and twenty

615
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: times in the past five years. In the last episode,

616
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: we discussed his friendship with Dennis Prager. Also Dave Reuben

617
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: just recently campaigned for Elder at a recent rally, and

618
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: a month and a half ago, Elder was on Candice

619
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: Owens Show discussing how the descendants of slave owners deserve

620
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: reparations for having their property i e. Black people stolen

621
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: from them when the slaves were freed. Those are his words,

622
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: not mine. What's probably most concerning is Elder's connection to

623
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: Stephen Miller. In fact, we wouldn't have Stephen Miller if

624
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: it were not for Larry Elder. Back in the late nineties,

625
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: a conservative student from Santa Monica High School would call

626
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: into Larry Elder's show to rant about his school's liberal culture. Reportedly,

627
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: the student would go around demanding staff and fellow students

628
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: regularly recite the Pledge of Allegiance. He railed against condom

629
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: giveaways and called Spanish language announcements quote a crup preventing

630
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 1: Spanish speakers from standing on their own unquote. Young Californians

631
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 1: calling into Elder's show and agreeing with him wasn't very common,

632
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: and Elder ate it up. He loved talking with the

633
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: students so much that he let the kid on basically

634
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: any time he wanted a platform to rant and rave.

635
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: You know where this is going. That student was Stephen Miller.

636
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: According to Miller, he appeared on Elder's show sixty nine times.

637
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: Throughout his time in high school and university, and calls

638
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: Elder quote the one true guide I've always had unquote.

639
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: Miller's appearances on Elder's radio show made him a recognizable

640
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 1: figure in the larger conservative media world, helping him connect

641
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: with Steve Bannon and eventually President Trump. By extension, Elder

642
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: was Stephen Miller's on ramp to the White House. In

643
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: an email to Miller in twenty sixteen, Elder told him quote,

644
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: I hope to live to see the day when you

645
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: become president. When media has brought up his friendship with

646
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: Stephen Miller, Elder tries very quickly to change the subject

647
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: when pushed on the topic. In a recent interview, Elder

648
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: shot back with quote, why would you bring up Stephen Miller?

649
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering what the agenda here is? What's the point?

650
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: Am I somehow what a Nazi? A fascist? Unquote? I

651
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: think that says enough. The reason we haven't discussed the

652
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: other candidates in the recall election is because at this point,

653
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 1: if Newsom is recalled, it's absolutely certain that Elder will

654
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: be the one to succeed him. He has a twenty

655
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: point lead ahead other challengers, but that lead is still

656
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: only a tiny fraction of the total electorate, which demonstrates

657
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: the part of the problem in California's recall process. There

658
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: are other Republican challengers with concerning pasts and beliefs, lots

659
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: of anti mask, anti trans, anti vax, total disbelief, and

660
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: climate change people spouting q and on originated conspiracy claims

661
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: advocating the lie that the presidential election was stolen. And

662
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: there's even a Democrat challenger that plans to use the

663
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: National Guard to round up all homeless people and put

664
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: them in concentration camps. But Elder himself shares a lot

665
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: of those views and uses the fact that he's black

666
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: as a shield for criticism against his racist and nationalist

667
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: policies and ideas. We haven't even mentioned that last month

668
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: Elder's ex fiance came out and said that Elder was

669
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: extremely abusive and had threatened her with a loaded gun.

670
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: In early August, polls were showing pretty much neck and

671
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: neck for the first question on the ballot, yes or

672
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: no on the recall itself. A survey USA pull from

673
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: that time even had respondents vote no on the recall

674
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: and fifty one percent vote yes to remove Newsom Throughout

675
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: August and September, results started to flip the other direction

676
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: as ads against the recall hit the airwaves and internet.

677
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: The latest Survey USA poll has fifty four percent voting

678
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: No one the recall and voting yes. Other polls hover

679
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: around same ten to fifteen point lead for Newsome staying

680
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: in office. Now, with pools not going the way Elder

681
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: in the GOP would like, we're starting to see a new,

682
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: yet familiar narrative being prepared on on my on my website,

683
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: elect elder dot com. We have voter Integrity Project. We

684
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: have lawyers all set up, all ready to go to

685
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: foul lawsuits in a timely fashion. The reason the lawsuits

686
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: did not did not work in the election. We know

687
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: what happened there is because the lawsuits were filed too

688
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: late and many of them were dismissed one procedural grounds.

689
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: Of course, don't like to overturn an election. So when

690
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: did you hear of anything suspicious? We've heard a lot

691
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: of things that have been suspicious so far. Go to

692
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: elect Goda dot com. We're gonna sick our lawyers on

693
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: them foul lawsuits right away. They're gonna cheat. We know that.

694
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: Can I tell you what. So many people are angry

695
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: about the crime, about the homelessness, about the way he

696
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: shut down this state, About the fact that one third

697
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: of all small businesses, many of them are owned by

698
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 1: black and brown and Easian American people, that they hear about.

699
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 1: But the declining call of the schools, but the fact

700
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: that people are leaving, rolling BrownHouse, lack of water. So

701
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: many people are angry. The number of people that are

702
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: going to vote to recall this man is going to

703
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 1: be so overwhelming, So then even when they cheat, they're

704
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: still gonna lose. That's Larry Elder saying that if he

705
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 1: doesn't win, that means the election must have been stolen.

706
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: Fox News has been promoting the same idea the past month.

707
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: All of it is in the vein of the Stop

708
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: the Steel movement post presdential election, culminating with the attempted

709
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: insurrection on January six. Here's Elder again on Fox News

710
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: in early September. But you're right, I am concerned about

711
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: voter fraud, and that's why I'm asking people to go

712
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: to elect Elder dot com. That's my website. We have

713
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: a voter integrity project set up with a bunch of

714
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: lawyers ready to foul lawsuits if anybody sees anything suspicious.

715
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: Big election fraud conspiracy proponent and former House Speaker Newt

716
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: Gingrich was one of the first people to chime in

717
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: to stoke disinformation of at the recall election. And I

718
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: think this may well be the most rigged stay wide

719
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: election we've seen probably at least a half century. And

720
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: I think people should look carefully of this because it's

721
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 1: pretty good evidence that if Newsom is in a straight,

722
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: honest count, he probably has a good chance of losing.

723
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: But if they can stuff every ballot box in California

724
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: and they can cheat in every way possible, and of

725
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: course this type of propaganda has made it onto the

726
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: most watched cable news show on air, Tucker Carlson, California

727
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: does not get the credit it deserves for the corruption

728
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: that's endemic there. It's a one party state and they

729
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: act like it. And you've got to have concerns about

730
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 1: whether this recall election will be free and fair. Are

731
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: you concerned? Well, of course I'm concerned, Tucker. I'm involved

732
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: in election integrity efforts throughout the United States, and I'm

733
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: also member of the Republican National Committee, so we have

734
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: a team of lawyers that is ready to deploy throughout

735
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: the state here, and we are monitoring things every single day.

736
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: Just a couple of hours ago, I filed a lawsuit

737
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: to intervene a challenge to the constitutionality of the recall

738
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: statute because frankly, I don't trust the Secretary of State

739
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: or the Attorney General, who are both appointed by the governor,

740
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: to defend him in this regard, and so we are

741
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: going to be jumping on every potential opportunity to do

742
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: that and fight back against the Democrats. Of course, they

743
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: are playing fast and loose. We've seen some very alarming

744
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: scenes of three ballots bundled together in the car of

745
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: a person with a gun and some drugs, and so

746
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: we are definitely looking into all of these issues. But Tucker,

747
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: ultimately it's going to come down to how much do

748
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: people want to change in California. And I can tell

749
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: you even living in my latte sipping avocado toast, eating,

750
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 1: you know, Lululemon wearing neighborhood in San Francisco, people are

751
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: fed up with the crime, the drugs, the homelessness, the

752
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: intermittent electricity, and everything else that is wrong with California,

753
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: So people want to change here. It's just not working.

754
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 1: And this really is a test of whether our system works.

755
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: I mean, can people get better leadership? That's kind of

756
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: the question. Will there be election observers on a scene

757
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: so the rest of us can know this was fair? Well,

758
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: the problem in California is that the voting doesn't just

759
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: take place on election day like it would in a

760
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: normal place. It takes it's taking place now on a

761
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: rolling basis through mail in voting. It's a hundred percent

762
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: mail in ballots this time around, and it is going

763
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: to take place for thirty days after the election if

764
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 1: it's close, because they have thirty days to count the vote.

765
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: That's sixty days of voting. And of course a lot

766
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: of shenanigans can occur and ballots can disappear. So we

767
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: are going to be observing it very closely and demanding

768
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: accountability and filing lawsuits wherever we need to to hold

769
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: the Democrats accountable because we cannot trust them. Yeah, I hope.

770
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: So people want to believe the system works, that it's

771
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: real that they have powered their vote matters. So I

772
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: appreciate what you're doing, Harmydale. Thank you a lot of

773
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: what's said in that last clip is either extremely misrepresented

774
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: or just flat outlines. Those three ballots found in a car,

775
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: we're actually part of a larger mail theft thing not

776
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 1: related to the election at all. Voters have received new ballots,

777
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: and for this election, just like the last one, Californians

778
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: have the option to vote in person, to mail in ballots,

779
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: or deliver them in a dropbox. The deadline to drop

780
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: off mail or place your vote is September. Counting cannot

781
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: start till the fourteenth either, and like every election, there

782
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: will be observers throughout the entire counting process. Obviously, this

783
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: isn't the first time conservative media has hyped up election fraud,

784
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 1: the last presidential election being the biggest instance to date.

785
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: But what is concerning here is that they're setting up

786
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: a template to use for all future elections whenever Republicans lose.

787
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: Here's a Fox clip from September seven. The only thing

788
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: that will save Gavin Newsom is voter fraud. So, as

789
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: they say, stay woke, pay attention to the voter fraud

790
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: going on in California because it's going to have big

791
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: consequences not only for that state, but for upcoming elections.

792
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: It's safe to assume that stop the steal esque strategies

793
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: will be us almost every time a Republican loses in

794
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: an election going forward. We've seen exactly what this type

795
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: of rhetoric and propaganda leads to, and it ends in blood.

796
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 1: There were multiple attacks on state capitals during the Stop

797
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: to Steel rallies prior to January six. In some places

798
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 1: like Salem, Oregon, they succeeded in getting inside the capital.

799
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: Even if Newsom gets to stay in office, there will

800
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: still be many problems, electric conspiracies, and the possibility of violence,

801
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: like January six, just being one. We haven't wanted to

802
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: righteously defend Newsom here. He's a politician and inept in

803
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: many ways. He deserves plenty of criticism, especially on the

804
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: issues of climate change, but the criticism levied at Newsom

805
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 1: from the likes of Elder in the GOP are based

806
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 1: on bigotry, nationalism, and climate denial. Newsom should be our

807
00:44:53,320 --> 00:45:07,959
Speaker 1: punching bag, not theirs. Greetings and welcome to it could

808
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I am a researcher and

809
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: writer on the podcast team. Today we have a roundtable

810
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: discussion with a group of researchers who look into extremism

811
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: and political political violence that's usually stemming from far right

812
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: propagandists and people in that kind of whole sphere. So

813
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: we have a discussion relating to climate change and all

814
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: these other things. So that I was able to record

815
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: these fine people. It's split up into two sections, So

816
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: part one is coming out today, Part two is coming

817
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: out to tomorrow. Highly recommend you listen to both, maybe

818
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: maybe even back to back at some point because it

819
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: does really give a nice rounded out um view of

820
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 1: what we were talking about. So, without further ado, here

821
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: is my discussion with I kind of know, well not

822
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: not a dozen, but of a lot a large amount

823
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: of some researchers. As we are all uh in the woods.

824
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: As you will soon find out, welcome to it can

825
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: happened here the Daily Show. I am Garrison Davis, and

826
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: I am recording in an undisclosed location in the woods.

827
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: Um we are me and a few a few Internet

828
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: colleagues are all hiding from the world for a week

829
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: to reset our poisoned brains. But I'm gonna slightly re

830
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: poison us here for about an hour to have a

831
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: discussion about climate change and terrorism because all we have

832
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 1: a group of people here who are all well research

833
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: the bad thing online a lot. So I'm going to

834
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: try to try to use to take advantage of having

835
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 1: this uh unique group of people all in one location

836
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: to have this nice discussion for you guys. But yeah, specifically,

837
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: we want to we want to talk about how we

838
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: how each of us has an you know, quote unquote

839
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: expert in certain fields. Um see climate change impacting impacting

840
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: extremism and terrorism in the next in the next few decades. Um.

841
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: And yes, we are recording in the forest. So if

842
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: you hear sounds like we're in the forest, that's because

843
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: we are. Um. You you guys already know me, or

844
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: you probably do. But I'm gonna we're gonna go around

845
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: a circle, probably starting on my left, um, introducing the people.

846
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: And yeah, just give a brief a brief brief bio.

847
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: However detail do you want to get into. My name's

848
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: Matt Taylor. I'm a journalist and researcher focusing on cults, um,

849
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, and extremism. And to day is my birthday.

850
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: Happy birthday, Matt. In the in the past, my name's THEO.

851
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: I am a journalist and researcher as well. I mostly

852
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: focused on the American militia movement and paramilitary groups. I'm

853
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: toothpick Um with THEO Matt Emmy and Big New Houses.

854
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: Isn't here on terrorism bad? That's that's a that's a podcast,

855
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: by the way, self plug um. My research and reporting

856
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: focuses on mainly on conspiracy theories and where that overlaps

857
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 1: with political extremism and the focus on connections between US

858
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: in Europe, especially Germany. I'm Peter Smith. I'm a journalist

859
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: with the Canadian Anti Hate Network and the host of

860
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: the Unusual Show podcast. I'm Lily and I focus on

861
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: experimism and kind of terrorism and data analysis. And I'm Emmy.

862
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 1: I do digital propaganda and rhetoric. That that that is

863
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: our little crew. Um. Yeah, let's see what the first

864
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: thing we kind of want to talk about, I'm guessing

865
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: is how we see like small because like the podcast

866
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: is more about like smaller local collapses, So we don't

867
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: there's not gonna be one big collaps. We're just see

868
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 1: small things start to fall apart. And how we see

869
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,439
Speaker 1: when small things all apart, what we do we see

870
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: filling in those gaps? Specifically, I think this will tie

871
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 1: into the militia movement a lot in a lot of ways. UM.

872
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, you guys can start sprouting off your your knowledge. Yeah.

873
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I've been thinking of

874
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: and following it. I don't know if this has made

875
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: as much of an impact in US media UM, but

876
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: in the last month UM, parts of Germany and the

877
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: Netherlands experienced UM really bad flooding UM that that literally

878
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: wiped out some villages in some towns UM. And one

879
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: of the things that we've seen in Germany is you know,

880
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: far right groups UM. There isn't really a militia movement

881
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 1: because of the law is there, but but far right

882
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: groups rushing in UM and collecting aid and going for

883
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: photo ops UH in those catastrophe areas UM. And what

884
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: that does make me think of And maybe THEO can

885
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: talk more about this as we've seen similar stuff in

886
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: the US with the militia moving marking themselves as you know,

887
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: emergency preparedness UM or marking them selves in that way

888
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: and positioning themselves where when you know the government is

889
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 1: unable to respond, that these groups are able to come

890
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: in UM and also using that for their messaging and

891
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: for their rhetoric. Yeah, so, I mean that is something

892
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: that you see in the US. The biggest example, Garrison

893
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: and I talked about this earlier, but during the wildfires

894
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: in Oregon last year, you saw checkpoints being established by

895
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: militia groups, whether are already formed militia groups are kind

896
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: of impromptu armed bands. And you also see that as

897
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: like a big marketing thing. I know a lot of

898
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 1: the Virginia based militias that I follow went out to

899
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: Tennessee two one or two years ago when the tornadoes happened.

900
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: I was gonna mentioned that, Yeah, they did a bunch

901
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: of kind of aid and photo ops. Yeah. So just

902
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: not to docks myself, but I'm from Nashville, and and uh,

903
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: the beginning of in March, right before someone just dropped

904
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: a toy gun. Great job, guys. Yeah. So in the

905
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: beginning of March of last year, right before COVID hit Nashville,

906
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: we had a huge tornado go through Nashville itself and

907
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,760
Speaker 1: wipe out like two different neighborhoods and then a rural

908
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: town right outside of Nashville. But you saw a lot

909
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: of like so the community comes together in this really

910
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: nice display mutual aid to do all the cleanup basically

911
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: before any official cruise could get there. But with that

912
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: you also sell like these far right groups coming in

913
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: for photo ops and it just it normalizes their presence

914
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: in heavily impacted areas. And it was not not ideal. Yeah,

915
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the American militia movement, especially the modern

916
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: kind of post tooth was an eight strain of it

917
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: is predicated on this idea of a complete breakdown of

918
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 1: order or a loss of civil order. However you conceive

919
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: of that. And um, these like climate disasters that are

920
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: going to hit areas are going to kind of provide

921
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 1: a self fulfilling prophecy for these people to step in

922
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: and say like, oh no, you need some sort of

923
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: armed force, You need some sort of group of people

924
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: to keep order and to keep law in whatever way

925
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: they conceive of that. I do think it's interesting you

926
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: guys talking about kind of like the photo op thing

927
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 1: that they do, because when the wildfire has happened in Oregon,

928
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: all of the the actual like relief work was done

929
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: by anti fascists. Like we like people in Portland, we

930
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: set up, you know, these these massive camps to help.

931
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: We know all these like you know, much more conservative

932
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: people who who have who ad to that wait their

933
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: back to their homes and they were all getting fed

934
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: and all like their closes that were coming from anti fascists,

935
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: and the all the right did was do the arm

936
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: checkpoints thing. But interesting that like in the South, where

937
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: there's less anti fascists, like you know, compared to the generals,

938
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: compared to the Portland Right, how some of those groups

939
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: actually do do some of the relief effort um and

940
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: that that's definitely not the case up here in the

941
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: in the West coast. Oh yeah, I mean last year,

942
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: I remember a few county level militias that I follow

943
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: in Virginia. We're like seriously doing relief work, Like they

944
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: were gathering food, they were taking out places affected by

945
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: flooding in North Carolina, but tornadoes and Tennessee. It's not

946
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go so far as to call it mutual

947
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 1: aid because it lacks the kind of ideological framework for that.

948
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 1: But they are providing some sort of infrastructure for their guys.

949
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, with yeah, with with less of like the

950
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: theory side of mutually but like, and I'm sure there's

951
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: someone else who can speak more on this, but like

952
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: from my perspective growing up in a super weird church,

953
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: I see this in interacting, they see this like combining

954
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: with local churches a lot as well. Um, I'm not

955
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: sure there's anyone else here who could say something more

956
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: intelligently than me about how like religion will come line

957
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: with these like kind of militia efforts. Well, I would

958
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: like eco eco extremists, like on the far right, on

959
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: the very very fringe far right, can start to like

960
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: be very esoteric about there, you know, belief in climate change,

961
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: and they start to sort of frame it as like

962
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: a reason for the collapse. Um, that we need collapse,

963
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 1: are attacking infrastructure, like for the purpose of somehow saving

964
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: the planet, even though it's really not going to get

965
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: anywhere we really need to. We have to do with

966
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: a lot of our own work on the planet. We

967
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: can't just destroy everything and see if it working. Yeah,

968
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 1: we can definitely bring up accelerationists and accelerationism as a

969
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: as an over overarching thing that is, you know, not

970
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: just it not to be like horseshoe theory about it,

971
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: but the accelation is that pops up a whole whole

972
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: lot of areas, including areas of the left to where

973
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: it becomes very unuseful, um and it can lead to

974
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: like a lot of wasted time and some destructive tendencies.

975
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that point kind of also provides

976
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 1: an interesting through line between more mainstream militias and like

977
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: the really esoteric brands of eco fascism or ecologically based extremism.

978
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: Is that, like they're both very influenced by like colonial

979
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: schools of thought, like eco fascism and all that is

980
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,280
Speaker 1: kind of predicated on this idea of like Tera Noli's

981
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: like there is this perfect empty wild land that we

982
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 1: can have manifest destiny exactly, And like so much of

983
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: the ideas of order and um like peacekeeping that you

984
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: find within more mainstream militia movements come from this exact

985
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 1: same type of thinking, where it's like a colonial order

986
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: that you need to keep. Yeah. I know, there's a

987
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:53,919
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people on the left who

988
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: are in like the kind of like you know, green green,

989
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: like like ecosocialist or like green anarchists. Kind of strains

990
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: to get very frustrated when people talk about eco fascism,

991
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: which I can understand because no one really means the

992
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: same thing when they talk about it. Sometimes they just

993
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:12,919
Speaker 1: mean any like any like quote unquote terrorism that has

994
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: like has like an environmental purpose. Some people, you know,

995
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: when they think of eco fascists, we think of like overpopulation. Um.

996
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of different things they mean

997
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: mean by it. But I know we we've all had

998
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 1: talks about like what we personally view as like eco fascism,

999
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: because it's's it's it's not just eco streamism, like eco

1000
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: streamism does not equal fascism. Like there is there's a

1001
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 1: whole bunch of eco extremists who are very anti fascist, um.

1002
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: And there is some who kind of bridge bridge the gap,

1003
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 1: you know, like like like id S has some more

1004
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: fascist tendencies, But I would not accurately call them fascist

1005
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: based on the type of stuff they do with type

1006
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: of right and they do. They do not have they

1007
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: do not check all of the boxes. Um. But then

1008
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,800
Speaker 1: then we do have people who I would accurately describe

1009
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: as eco fascists who have done who've done you know,

1010
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 1: mass shootings, who have a lot of eco who have

1011
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: eco fascist stuff either in the writing that they like

1012
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: or their own manifestos. They bring up enough points it's like, yeah,

1013
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 1: you kind of fall into this broad category. Just someone

1014
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: here want to give their personal definition of ego fascism.

1015
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: This isn't this not necessarily exactly what we use for

1016
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: the pod, but I just I'm interested to here is

1017
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people with various backgrounds. Everyone has their

1018
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: own specialized knowledge. What kind of when people say that, what,

1019
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: what do you kind of put into that category? People

1020
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: believe in like this organic law and like natural order,

1021
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: and they believe that like there is a natural hierarchy

1022
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: ingrained in everything. And I think that generally, like if

1023
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: we return to like some kind of primitive society or like,

1024
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, they'll assume that like everything has uh its

1025
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: own structure, and that there's going to be people who

1026
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: rise to the top, people who just you know, uh

1027
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: don't belong in that kind of society. It's going to

1028
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: be really damaging for like the elder, for disabled people.

1029
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: And they just sort of see it as like survival

1030
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: of the fist um. And I think that's like a

1031
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: much more eco fascist point of view rather than like

1032
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: a more green anarchist point of view where things would

1033
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: sort of even out um rather than become a hierarchical Yeah. Yeah,

1034
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: I think hierarchy is an important part of that. And

1035
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: how we you know, there is like a lot of

1036
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,439
Speaker 1: green anarchist who are focusing on like making their own

1037
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: medication for for you know, people with diabetes and stuff,

1038
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: and that'skind of stuff that is like really interesting to

1039
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: look at and stuff that we should absolutely pursue because

1040
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: will become less relianced with apply chains. And we don't

1041
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: really see ego fascists doing that. We do not see

1042
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 1: them focusing on making medication for people. Oh no, maybe

1043
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: I can kind of set some people have to say

1044
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: more stuff if I say, was real quickly. But one

1045
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: of things that I always or that that is a

1046
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: red flag for me is is just you know, bring

1047
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: in this very traditional discussions of gender roles and and

1048
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: relating that to the environment. Yeay of our rhetoric an example,

1049
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't we don't need to say names

1050
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: of specific like writers are people, but there's definitely describe

1051
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: the general sure, yeah, stop playing with the toy gun.

1052
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Um, just just like establishing and it

1053
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: is kind of it can be kind of like an

1054
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: older left thing too, but establishing you know, ecological discussions

1055
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: within framework of traditional gender roles. Um. And kind of

1056
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 1: like what is expected of people based on their sex. Yeah,

1057
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: this is this is this is the dark side of

1058
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: cottage core. That's one way to put Yeah, I mean

1059
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: you want to get in here, Oh boy, Yeah, I

1060
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: like parts of cottage courts not want intersect with a

1061
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: certain strain of politics, like queer. Cottage core is extremely

1062
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: cute until yeah, well until you're not queer, and listen,

1063
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they still are. Now Here's the thing.

1064
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 1: When we're when we're dealing with like traditional gender role stuff,

1065
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: it's a really like slippery slope into more aggressive strains

1066
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: of thought. So when we're when we're talking about the

1067
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: the idea of of the class will it's mass birthday.

1068
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: You asked to apologize. Yeah, yeah, ripped to the editor.

1069
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know. That's so good. So when they're talking

1070
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: about the class and they want, you know, they think

1071
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: the rod of modernity will be gone, society will be ended.

1072
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: They can they can you know, rebuild from the ground

1073
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: up smaller communities and uh, they can. They can build

1074
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: the society they want, which is largely no nationalists. It's

1075
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: not great. The the idea that there will be this

1076
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: this supertraditional family structure you're going to have your this

1077
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 1: combined strong warrior also homesteading man and your cool trad

1078
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 1: life who never ages above thirty in this society. Like

1079
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: I'm being generous here, assuming that at least like some

1080
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: of these people have a little bit of like pre planning,

1081
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: but they don't. They don't um, and they step on

1082
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: each other a lot, right because they have this this

1083
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: whole plan for this uh, this society free of industry um,

1084
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: and they can't stop posting about it on the Internet.

1085
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: It's really funny, right, Like they're not they're not good

1086
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, they're like way too addicted to posting

1087
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: to like actually commit to like the true off the

1088
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: grid trad life. At least at least ten k was

1089
01:01:55,560 --> 01:02:00,439
Speaker 1: off the grid. We don't gotta hand it. We don't

1090
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 1: got a handed to it. You got ahead, do you?

1091
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: Under circumstances? Got hit pod divided on how much we've

1092
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 1: gotta hand it? Said, Kay. The official stands of terrorism

1093
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: bad is a terrorism is bad When we just bring

1094
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: them on, it is kind of a concern when they

1095
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: do end up when they stop posting. I mean, yeah,

1096
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: when they're posting, but it's kind of more concerning post

1097
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: sometimes yeah. Yeah, if the same as like looking at

1098
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: a kid that wants to be a firefighter or something

1099
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 1: like they're just talking. They're not going to do it,

1100
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: but you see something, I'm doing it, and when they're

1101
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: doing the thing, the lifestyle influencer version of fascism. Yeah,

1102
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: do you think that it's going to affect kind of

1103
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 1: like laws about living off grid and laws about like

1104
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: for for normal people. I just want to get the

1105
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: funk out, Like I actually just read something about this.

1106
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: There's some guys who've been living off gride in Pennsylvania

1107
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: for like thirty years and I don't remember the details

1108
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: of this, and we don't have internet out here. Burn

1109
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: his house down. Yeah, he's in jail now. He's probably

1110
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: gonna be in jail for the rest of his life.

1111
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: And I think part of whether it comes from left

1112
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: through the right, as people kind of start to try

1113
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: to build resiliency within communities for disasters that are coming

1114
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: and start to seek ways of living that do not

1115
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 1: rely on supply chains and do not rely on the state,

1116
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: the state will strike back against that as a consolidation

1117
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 1: of power, because the more that people move away from it,

1118
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: whether on the left or right, the less power the

1119
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: state has, I mean, and utilizing counter terrorism an excuse

1120
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 1: to do so. Yeah, because they're giving reasons and it's

1121
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: not it's not going to get enforced equally. I'm sure's

1122
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 1: gonna gonna focus uncertain people doing this and be slightly

1123
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:46,479
Speaker 1: more okay with other people doing it. Um. Yeah, what's so?

1124
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: I would like to talk about Canada a little bit

1125
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: because specifically climate change affecting Canada's can be veried. It's

1126
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: going to be slightly different, and most of it to

1127
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: go to the States because I've been I've been I've

1128
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: been having my like waist deep in climate science books

1129
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: for most of UM. And Canada's gonna probably see economic

1130
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: boosts um. And they're probably the state's probably just gonna

1131
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: a gap to get actually stronger because of how the

1132
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 1: same thing with Russia. Both Canada and Russia are going

1133
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: to get more economically powerful under climate change because of

1134
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: how much more props are gonna get moved up. How

1135
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: give me your thoughts to Canada, because Canada's my backup plan.

1136
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: It's gonna gets too spicy in the States. I'm I'm

1137
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: taking my Canadian passport and hiding in the woods. Um.

1138
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 1: How How it's it's interesting to hear you guys talk

1139
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: about American millistic culture because we we definitely are. Rhetoric

1140
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 1: and propaganda that we see in Canada gets borrowed a

1141
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: lot the talking points for the States, like the concepts,

1142
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: but what we don't have are these strong organized militia groups.

1143
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: We had three per centers for a while um and

1144
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 1: who still exists, but they were they were big about

1145
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: being off right, like they were the ones who weren't

1146
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 1: posting for a long time. UM and it seems like

1147
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,439
Speaker 1: as much as all these people are still around, they've

1148
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: largely deflated. Doubt his. Canada has made some some efforts

1149
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: to call them terrorists right right. Very recently, we designated

1150
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: them as a terrorist organization, which doesn't carry a criminal charge.

1151
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: But if you if you do something involved with them,

1152
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: you send them money like there is there are consequences

1153
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: of that legal enhancements, UM. But are are kind of

1154
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: militia culture focuses on the illegitimacy of the state that

1155
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: Canada is founded. It's very kind of soft sit type rhetoric,

1156
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 1: but that Canada's establishment, it's it's rules and especially with

1157
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 1: all the public health measures, it's this growing Uh, this

1158
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: growing kind of tired of thought in both the prairies

1159
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 1: and largely out west. I grew up in Saskatchewan. Um,

1160
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: most of my families in Alberta. I know when when

1161
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: I look at when I because I keep a soft

1162
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: eye on some Canadian hate groups just because I'm Canadian

1163
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: to them popped up around Alberta. Um, where do you

1164
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: see this stuff kind of like happening? Like do you

1165
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: see any of this on the East coast? If those

1166
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 1: it's smaller or is this mostly on the West coast?

1167
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: Candrather thing? Well that like that conspiratory thought we've seen

1168
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: kind of across the country, like on the East coast.

1169
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: You know, just recently we had people setting up their

1170
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 1: own version of checkpoints um as like a protest against

1171
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: the the public health measures and like the whole eastern

1172
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 1: part of Canada is in its own bubble right now. Um.

1173
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, you had this the conspiracy based movement forming

1174
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: these actual checkpoints. And then the main part of it though,

1175
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: is probably going to be out west. That is where

1176
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: these ideas are the most popular or the most popular.

1177
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: That makes sense where mainstream politicians are moving towards, you know,

1178
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: amplify these type of talking points is do you see

1179
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: that like is that is it? Is that a mostly

1180
01:06:55,240 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: Alberta thing. It's mostly like Prairies Alberta the online. The

1181
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 1: interesting part is that when you talk about groups, is

1182
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 1: like in Canada, groups are an urban phenomenon. For the

1183
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: most part, most of our organization takes place around the

1184
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 1: city centers, and that is very different from the States.

1185
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 1: With the States, that's it's usually the usually the opposite

1186
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: in some there's there's always exceptions of two minament people live,

1187
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: but generally we see it as more of as more

1188
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: of a rule thing which troops organized, whereas cities are

1189
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 1: more like liberal and that's what the anti fascist groups

1190
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 1: are based UM. But it's kind of these like these

1191
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: little ideological pockets that exist all over and certainly that

1192
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 1: sentiment is probably shared, but the need to mobilize seems

1193
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,919
Speaker 1: to mostly focus on the urban centers. And then we'd

1194
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: never have our groups. They don't providing any conveyed to

1195
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 1: that's just or even checkpoints like that's beyond these like

1196
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 1: very recent protest movements. You know, there has been no

1197
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: more forest fires around bc UM, around you know what

1198
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: Western Alberta UM. How do you see the government's was

1199
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 1: sponse as to things right now and it can do

1200
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: isn't in a particular situation with um, the Liberals having

1201
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: a minority control. M you know, the Canadian poems parliamentary

1202
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: system is probably confusing to let Americans that they don't

1203
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 1: understand it already. Um. But yeah, how how what do

1204
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 1: you what do you see on on that front? You know,

1205
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: you know, trust and true both both true down Biden

1206
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 1: talk the talk around like pipelines and stuff, but then

1207
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 1: do the complete opposite. Um, how do you could have

1208
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:25,640
Speaker 1: seen this kind of stuff working right now? For for

1209
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 1: like on the on the climate side of things, Well, yeah,

1210
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 1: our our reaction to the firefighters or a reaction to

1211
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 1: the wildfires. Um. I mean the government response has always

1212
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 1: looked at on like, it's always looked at poorly. Um.

1213
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: But none of these people are taking this as an

1214
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 1: opportunity to kind of change minds and of do pr Um.

1215
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: There's much less reaction to it. Most like the West. Also,

1216
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: there's this incredible feeling of alienation because of the way

1217
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 1: that government is set up. They have substantially less they

1218
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: have substantially less voting power. Yeah, the same way the States.

1219
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 1: How you know, there's like there's accelering states or states

1220
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: in the Midwest, you feel like they don't really have

1221
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 1: any power politically. Same things for almost the entire East,

1222
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 1: entire West Coast of Canada, everything from like Manitoba to

1223
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:13,680
Speaker 1: Alberta and parts of BC. Everyone is very frustrated at

1224
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 1: at at the at the federalise um and how they

1225
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 1: really don't have control for what's happening. Like, yeah, people

1226
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 1: in the East Coast are controlling and what what our

1227
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 1: what our pipelines are, what our minds are doing, and

1228
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: that does not fair to our workers, because yeah it is.

1229
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: It does suck when you know, a mind closes and

1230
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: then everyone in a small town is out of business,

1231
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 1: like the part the part right in Canada, Almoight, Stanley

1232
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: around them, you know, used to be you know, bustling

1233
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: small towns that are basically all all the ghost towns

1234
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: because stuff to close, people have to move to either

1235
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: like Calgary, Edmonton, Regina. Don't laugh, um, so you know

1236
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,679
Speaker 1: all all these specific things, you know, and we see

1237
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 1: pockets of this, we see pockets, we see pockets of this,

1238
01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 1: and like the good Western the States definately. I also

1239
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 1: like manifest Destination because like they are a lot of

1240
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 1: it started with people kind of moving outward to try

1241
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: and gain more land and make their borders um larger

1242
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: and like live further out to like try and uh,

1243
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, tom more territory um. And with the

1244
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:25,439
Speaker 1: like Canadian big surgeon like indigenous riots and the big

1245
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 1: focus and shift to like sort of give them landback

1246
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: or something. I'm not exactly clear on what the Canadian

1247
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 1: stances are on that. Oh, just like I mean we

1248
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 1: have a big movement from indigenous populations to they seem

1249
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: very like the economent like, well, there's so many different

1250
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 1: bands and tribes in different types of nations, um, like

1251
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: we have unseated territory, and the dynamics with which the

1252
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 1: government is supposed to deal with and has agreed to

1253
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 1: deal with it actually does deal with them is all

1254
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 1: vastly different. Um. But yeah, that that idea of this

1255
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:01,640
Speaker 1: focus on these particular issues, like indigenous issues, even our

1256
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 1: attempts to you know, have a greener economy you know

1257
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 1: for a place that for a long time and still

1258
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 1: is an extraction economy. Yes, Um, how does that like

1259
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 1: a fact an oil company with healthcare? More like extremist

1260
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,840
Speaker 1: far right groups who want to move out that way, um,

1261
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: for the purpose of organizing. And you also have the

1262
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:26,680
Speaker 1: indigenous focus within the liberal government. So like, how do

1263
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 1: those two groups do you think like interact? Uh? Like

1264
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: the general conception is that the push for indigenous rights,

1265
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 1: especially on the farther right is is for the dishent

1266
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 1: franchiisement of white Europeans like it is um. And then yeah,

1267
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 1: you do have this Western exodus where we have very

1268
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 1: popular figures who are moving further west because they are

1269
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 1: these stronger ideas of sovereignty. UM. I forget what exactly

1270
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: was pulling, but when the Western Eggs it was started,

1271
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, there was a significant amount of popular or

1272
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:09,799
Speaker 1: at least like not strong support, but like existing support

1273
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:11,600
Speaker 1: there was there was there was a it was a

1274
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:14,840
Speaker 1: large amount of support. Yeah. Absolutely, It'll be interesting to

1275
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 1: see what happens though, talking about collapse, like you know

1276
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 1: in these small towns, in like cloistered communities, um, you know,

1277
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,799
Speaker 1: they already feel cut off from the government and not represented,

1278
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:28,600
Speaker 1: and then if you have a breakdown of infrastructure, you

1279
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 1: know that will create why do we even have them

1280
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:32,679
Speaker 1: in the first place if they're not helping us? Which

1281
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 1: is which which is true? Which is like a well,

1282
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: real thing to think about what their solutions are wildly

1283
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 1: different than the actual solutions to help people. And we've

1284
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 1: already see how this plays out in the past as

1285
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: well with UM, you know, places where uh, the infrastructure

1286
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:51,560
Speaker 1: starts to break down and then people who have weapons

1287
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 1: kind of become the authority just based on the fact

1288
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 1: that they have more power. Yeah. So one of the

1289
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 1: things that I follow is a lot of kind of

1290
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 1: like the more let's characterize it as boom Er esque

1291
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, UM, especially with anti vax, anti public health

1292
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: measures type thing UM. And one of the things that

1293
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 1: that that really is noticeable to me is how much

1294
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:25,600
Speaker 1: more sovereign citizen stuff is creeping up into those areas

1295
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 1: UM and especially you know, they're they're two really big

1296
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: examples of you know, if there's an anti vax protest

1297
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 1: in your city, it's probably one of these two networks

1298
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 1: that both come from Europe UM that I'm not going

1299
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 1: to name right now. UM. And those two networks also

1300
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 1: you know, love to organize over the messaging app Telegram UM,

1301
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 1: and Telegram is tell me if I'm stepping in it.

1302
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 1: I mean, Telegram is where you know, so much of

1303
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:57,679
Speaker 1: this ideology this far right ideology is able to cross

1304
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 1: mix and co mingle um. You know, I we we

1305
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 1: talked about telegram from the pods. Okay, but people are familiar. Yeah,

1306
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: I have been stepped in it yet keep going, Yeah,

1307
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 1: adjacent to sting, but it's yeah, so so I mean, my, my,

1308
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 1: the biggest frame we're going to talk about this a

1309
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,519
Speaker 1: lot is is telegram as kind of this technological body

1310
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:20,679
Speaker 1: of the cultic milieum because there is so like basically

1311
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:24,800
Speaker 1: no enforcement close to no enforcement on telegram and so

1312
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: you know, these these more malicious actors know that, and

1313
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 1: they know that they can find an audience who is

1314
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 1: interested in, you know, opposing the mainstream conspiratorial thought in

1315
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,680
Speaker 1: these kind of like boomer tell boomers on Telegram and

1316
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 1: conspiracy groups, and there are you know, militious actors planning

1317
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 1: to go in and when these people over and you

1318
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 1: know a lot of these militious actors are younger people

1319
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 1: who don't have those resources, but they know that they

1320
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 1: can win over these people who do have resources, who

1321
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 1: own land, who have savings to kind of like fund

1322
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 1: that movement. If yeah, oh, I was just gonna say,

1323
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 1: I do think that the cultic miliuse like a really

1324
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 1: important here stick for these kind of collapse scenarios because

1325
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 1: the question of what happens when kind of infrastructure and

1326
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 1: any sort of political guidance falls away is governed a

1327
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 1: lot by that. And like this idea that there's there

1328
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 1: are these ideas floating around in our society and once

1329
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 1: people have nothing else turned to, these malicious actors will

1330
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 1: bring this stuff in and uh yeah, to put it simply,

1331
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 1: then we're pretty fucked. Yeah. Telegram also has recently started

1332
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: to have to crack down people and um because of that,

1333
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,800
Speaker 1: you have this really interesting dichotomy of people who are saying,

1334
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 1: like this means like get ready, get prepared, go off,

1335
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 1: grig g gone, And you also have on the other

1336
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 1: end people who are saying, you know, create all type

1337
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: platforms and like create um more like self encryption and

1338
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 1: like hello, I'm trying not to step in right now. Yeah,

1339
01:15:55,920 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 1: I'm but to be able to to speak more peer

1340
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 1: like peer to peer resources. And that wraps up Part

1341
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 1: one of the Terrorism round Table discussion. Thanks so much

1342
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: for listening. You can find us at happen here, pod

1343
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 1: and cool Zone Media on all of the socials. Um,

1344
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 1: you can find me at Hungry bow Tie Um, and

1345
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 1: you can follow a decent amount of the researchers on

1346
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 1: their podcast at Terrorism Bad. The podcast I think. I

1347
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 1: think it's just at Terrorism Bad. Anyway, Thanks for listening

1348
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 1: to Part one. Part two drops tomorrow, Stay tuned, m

1349
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 1: Welcome to it could Happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. This

1350
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 1: is part two of our terrorism round table discussion. If

1351
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 1: you haven't listened to part one already, I would recommend

1352
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: you scroll back, listen to the previous episode and then

1353
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 1: continue on from here so you have kind of context

1354
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 1: to exactly we're talking about. Anyway, this is part two

1355
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: of our discussion in the Woods. I hope you enjoy.

1356
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,760
Speaker 1: Something that we've talked about earlier this year after January six,

1357
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: was like should the government ban telegram? Right? That was

1358
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: the thing, And there's a lot of a lot of

1359
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: arguments are like no, absolutely not, and there's does it?

1360
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 1: Does anyone want to speak on that? Because you know,

1361
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 1: because like if I want to talk about the government's

1362
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:26,759
Speaker 1: response to these things, you know that's a very government

1363
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:29,559
Speaker 1: thing to do. Be like, oh, people are organizing this platform,

1364
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 1: get out of the platform problem gone, and that's not

1365
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 1: how that works. I mean one was talking that a

1366
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 1: little bit. Sure. Um, yeah, so they're getting rid of

1367
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: the platform doesn't necessarily help, especially when it's something that

1368
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: is important such as like you know, encrypted communication, which

1369
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:50,639
Speaker 1: is something that more people than just Nazis need, um,

1370
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 1: and that resource should not be cut off. And there's

1371
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: also kind of a bad precedent to be said if

1372
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:59,200
Speaker 1: the if the government is deciding which uh forms of

1373
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:01,719
Speaker 1: speech it needs to have complete access to. I don't

1374
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 1: love that. Um. The other thing is that if we

1375
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:09,759
Speaker 1: knew telegram, right, they don't disappear, they formed a networks.

1376
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 1: They're still there. Still, they have to do more things

1377
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 1: in person, still there, they're just harder to hard. People

1378
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 1: are absolutely corrected when they say D platforming works because

1379
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:22,639
Speaker 1: it works for the platform, and a lot of people

1380
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 1: just want that. A lot of people just don't want

1381
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: to see Nazi ship and they're fine with you know,

1382
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 1: D platform and they say this works, and they have

1383
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:31,639
Speaker 1: data to backup that it does work. But it works

1384
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:34,639
Speaker 1: for the platform. But the people still exist, yeah, still

1385
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,759
Speaker 1: boosting their own ship. And when they bring up building

1386
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 1: their own all tech platforms, it only works there early yeah, yeah, yeah,

1387
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 1: And there is elements that yeah, d platform is a

1388
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 1: wider thing can were especially for like in person stuff,

1389
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 1: but yeah, for your sort of the thing you're mentioning, yes,

1390
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 1: it is. It is definitely not not that cut and dry,

1391
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 1: you know. And telegrams really interesting because it is kind

1392
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:00,600
Speaker 1: of this middle space between social media and just a

1393
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 1: messaging appease. The thing about it too, is that anybody

1394
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: can look at these you know, the public channels, so

1395
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 1: without without saying anything in the chat. So people could

1396
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 1: be kind of completely invisible. Nobody, like nobody knows that

1397
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:15,759
Speaker 1: they're there. They're watching this stuff, and they're still getting

1398
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 1: the same messaging, they're still getting the same dates for protests,

1399
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:23,720
Speaker 1: they're still like organizing. But they can be uh, sort

1400
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:26,800
Speaker 1: of just subscribe to a channel and you don't even

1401
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:29,639
Speaker 1: need to be subscribed, you can, yeah, just looking into

1402
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 1: and getting that flow of information without ever having like

1403
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 1: formal organizing so to speak. So it's really hard to

1404
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:41,280
Speaker 1: say that, like, you know, these people planned this because

1405
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of plausible deniability and there's anybody was involved.

1406
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 1: There's so much easy hyper linking between groups and channels

1407
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 1: and everything, so it's so easy for someone to move

1408
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 1: between ideology and to go from kind of like the

1409
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 1: base level ship into the much deeper stuff extremely quick,

1410
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 1: very quick. Yeah, Actually, like well that's like that's good,

1411
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:04,840
Speaker 1: and that's good for them. About Telegram is that you

1412
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 1: have all of the people that are vulnerable to let's say,

1413
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 1: new ideas in one place. Exactly, if you're trying to

1414
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 1: plan a collapse, you're going to need a lot more

1415
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:18,800
Speaker 1: people than the numbers that the people who want the

1416
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 1: collapse actually have. So the easiest way to kind of

1417
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 1: move things along is desert inserting their ideas and their

1418
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: discourses and kind of altering the vibe of certain digital

1419
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 1: environments manually until they have um what we can kindly

1420
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 1: call cannon fodder, yeah, or even starting their own and

1421
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:42,680
Speaker 1: saying like, you know, this is a mega platform and

1422
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,600
Speaker 1: it's actually just you know, a bunch of bunch of

1423
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:49,759
Speaker 1: acceleration ast Tomdad to recruit them because they saw attempts

1424
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 1: of this with like Q and on. It's people who

1425
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:55,479
Speaker 1: are way more excelation is trying to use extreme It

1426
01:20:55,600 --> 01:21:01,599
Speaker 1: was successful. People die, You're mean that. And then also

1427
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: you've got like like the idea of the boogaloo, right

1428
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: that's being co opted to try to appeal to leftists,

1429
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:09,400
Speaker 1: And I mean there's a really good article by Left

1430
01:21:09,439 --> 01:21:11,599
Speaker 1: Coast Right Watch that goes into one of those chats

1431
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 1: and they're basically like, yeah, really try to push these

1432
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 1: ideas of really try to push talking points like black

1433
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: lives matter and all this. We want to get these

1434
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: protesters on our side. And then you also have um,

1435
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:26,760
Speaker 1: some blatant like white supremacist groups who are all using

1436
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 1: the boogaloos, And how much of that too is like

1437
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:33,640
Speaker 1: how much that is sort of real genuine like I

1438
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 1: am not racist, I believe in black lives matter, Like

1439
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 1: I want to be part of this even though I'm

1440
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 1: a bog or Like how much of it also is

1441
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:44,240
Speaker 1: um kind of reminiscent of what we were talking about

1442
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:45,600
Speaker 1: us and I also don't want stuff in it. But

1443
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 1: like with you know, the idea of from Anson of

1444
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:52,639
Speaker 1: like Helter Skelter and like causing that race where it's

1445
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:54,800
Speaker 1: like they what they would do is like try and

1446
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,240
Speaker 1: frame black people for it and say like this was

1447
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:00,560
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I like that. How much of it

1448
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:03,720
Speaker 1: is saying like this is black lives matter and they

1449
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 1: want people to see that after they do the boogleoo

1450
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:09,439
Speaker 1: groups that showed up in Portland in January in July

1451
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:13,679
Speaker 1: when the particular heads were happening. Now that they showed

1452
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:15,599
Speaker 1: up and we're all like, yeah, we're here to support

1453
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 1: black Lives matter and stand against the federal government and stuff. Um.

1454
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:22,120
Speaker 1: And they had some very suspicious patches that it took me,

1455
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 1: took me about a year to figure out what they were.

1456
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 1: And it's like this accelerationist like, um, it ties into

1457
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:30,639
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of like eco fascist propaganda stuff. Um.

1458
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:33,679
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's like they're they're saying these things, well

1459
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 1: they have these very obscure patches, um. And yeah, this

1460
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 1: is an important reason why we need people who are

1461
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:43,720
Speaker 1: not very smart, like I will say, Jimmy dor who

1462
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 1: puts these gives these people platforms are some of the

1463
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 1: worst and are going to cause a lot of problems

1464
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 1: because they have no idea what they're doing or they

1465
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 1: know what they're doing, and they're just bad. And like

1466
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:56,360
Speaker 1: that Boogle who think kind of serves a twofold purpose

1467
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 1: in that you can bring people who stud to defy

1468
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 1: his leftists into the movement, but you also have a

1469
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 1: really good scapegoat for like actual Actually that was a

1470
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:09,719
Speaker 1: big thing that we saw in Minneapolis when things first

1471
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 1: popped off and like precently was getting burned down, and

1472
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 1: suddenly people on the internet start losing their minds about

1473
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:23,880
Speaker 1: the Umbrella guys. And there was a guy who was indicted.

1474
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:25,920
Speaker 1: He was a boo boo boy who was indicted for

1475
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 1: um like headlines said, burning down the precinct. He fired

1476
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: a weapon and he fired a gun on like near

1477
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:35,479
Speaker 1: the wall exactly, And so that at the same time

1478
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:38,679
Speaker 1: takes away agency from left wing movement and the States

1479
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 1: able to be like, look, see, it's just it's okay

1480
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:42,960
Speaker 1: to crack down on them because they're all, you know,

1481
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:46,560
Speaker 1: wild white supremacists exactly. Just from any autonomous movie with

1482
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 1: the forms of the people in the community that isn't

1483
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 1: that we wouldn't necessarily for to his leftists just piste

1484
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:52,840
Speaker 1: off people. I mean, that's what we saw in every

1485
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 1: single you know, everybody, the young kids who are fucking

1486
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:58,600
Speaker 1: piste off and are going to go smash it. And

1487
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:01,040
Speaker 1: it's like saying all of people from outside of the

1488
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 1: town where it's like, yeah, it's a tale as old

1489
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:07,760
Speaker 1: as time, Like outside agitator has been used since before this.

1490
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 1: It's a very old state talking point. Yeah, are you

1491
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 1: going to say that, Um yeah, I was gonna say Also,

1492
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 1: it's somewhat related to that we're talking about using like

1493
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:20,040
Speaker 1: human on his cannon fodder and also ties into the

1494
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: sab sit conversation we're having. So my research I special

1495
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 1: are not specialized. I focus on Christian identity, this white

1496
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,600
Speaker 1: supremacist ideology and how specifically how it's grown since the

1497
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:34,920
Speaker 1: nineties until now through like the Internet and all that

1498
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 1: fun stuff. This whole point they've been pushing lately is

1499
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 1: to like there this with Christian identity. The whole thing

1500
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 1: is they are preparing for the apocalypse, which they call

1501
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 1: the tribulations, and they see modern see I folks see

1502
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 1: the boogaloo as like the tribulation that's coming. So what

1503
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 1: they're trying to do is go off grid and really

1504
01:24:56,920 --> 01:25:00,200
Speaker 1: try to like establish this new land or like to

1505
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 1: protect their kids and everything from like pollution and all

1506
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:05,719
Speaker 1: that ship but also to be away from the collapse

1507
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:08,639
Speaker 1: and be able to start buy it. And then while

1508
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:11,479
Speaker 1: they're doing all that, like prepping homesteads and the compounds

1509
01:25:11,479 --> 01:25:16,680
Speaker 1: and stuff, they're also like pushing like election fraud conspiracies

1510
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:18,720
Speaker 1: and all that on like Q and on in the

1511
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:21,559
Speaker 1: maggot crowd, not because they believe it, not because yeah right,

1512
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: they don't believe it. They know it's bullshit, but they

1513
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:27,240
Speaker 1: can use it to accelerate collapse, just like January say, yes,

1514
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:29,719
Speaker 1: so exactly, I mean when I mean, there are groups

1515
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 1: when Joe Biden won the presidency or won the election, whatever,

1516
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 1: some groups being like, yeah, I really try to push

1517
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 1: this theory of this conspiracy about election fraud, even if

1518
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:42,519
Speaker 1: you even if you don't believe in it, just push

1519
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:46,360
Speaker 1: it because that helps our cause. And that's that's something

1520
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:50,559
Speaker 1: to be really mindful of too. I forgot where else

1521
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:52,160
Speaker 1: I was going with that. Well, yeah, a lot of

1522
01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:54,920
Speaker 1: them don't mean what they say. They'll say things that

1523
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:59,519
Speaker 1: will push other people to do something that they don't

1524
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:01,320
Speaker 1: necessary really want to do. And that's a lot of

1525
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: a lot of like during January six, so much excitement

1526
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:07,720
Speaker 1: because they could see that the Q and on crowd

1527
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:11,000
Speaker 1: are actually mobilizing, and so they said to them, like

1528
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:16,280
Speaker 1: to themselves, like, you know, get them, get the mobilizing

1529
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,640
Speaker 1: for the white race, get the mobilizing for you know,

1530
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 1: our cause. And they've really successfully been able to infiltrate

1531
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:30,599
Speaker 1: that and be able to get some people on board

1532
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:33,799
Speaker 1: with some of it just based on using their rhetoric. Yeah,

1533
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 1: I know, I talked about this on our podcast, but

1534
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 1: you could see it, like I reported on January six

1535
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 1: in person, and like you could watch it happen. Someone

1536
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:46,479
Speaker 1: with a skull mask on or proud boy or an

1537
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 1: oathkeeper would literally come back from the police line, grab

1538
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:53,760
Speaker 1: a group of people, yell something at them about que

1539
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 1: and On or the storms upon us, and throw them

1540
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: up to that riot line until they got did a

1541
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 1: really good did really good vision investigation of how those

1542
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:04,160
Speaker 1: extremist cubes used mega people in q and On people

1543
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:07,800
Speaker 1: as their foot soldiers. Qua a folk que didn't really

1544
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:11,960
Speaker 1: can break down their mus podcast. Yeah, but it's also

1545
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 1: with I mean not to link everything the Christian identity,

1546
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:17,439
Speaker 1: which I have a tendency to do, but it's it's

1547
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: very ideologically similar to Q and On, like from a

1548
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:23,960
Speaker 1: Christianity point of view, like that's quan On is like

1549
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,000
Speaker 1: so close to the edge of Christian identity. It's very scary. Actually,

1550
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:31,559
Speaker 1: I talked about it on Jake hammer Hens Q Clarence podcast.

1551
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:36,240
Speaker 1: But it there's also like not only trying to accelerate

1552
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 1: things through them, but also trying to recruit them through

1553
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:41,600
Speaker 1: these like very very similar talking points about like the

1554
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:44,679
Speaker 1: Synagogue of Satan and all that, saying that Christian identity

1555
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 1: is an entry point for some of them. Some of

1556
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 1: them bring it up as an entry point into further

1557
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:55,640
Speaker 1: like accelerationist Nazi ship. But like they will start with

1558
01:27:56,080 --> 01:27:58,800
Speaker 1: Christian identity because I think that it's more pactual to

1559
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: people who already believe and on. Yeah exactly. I mean,

1560
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:04,280
Speaker 1: like Will was saying, these there's a lot of this

1561
01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 1: comes from these kind of boomer conspiracies and anti vax groups,

1562
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:09,680
Speaker 1: and you're not going to be able to get you know,

1563
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 1: memon pap pap into like wotonism or something like that,

1564
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 1: if you try hard enough, you can't. But like Christianity

1565
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:18,920
Speaker 1: is something that's palatable, it's something that's normal to them,

1566
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:21,479
Speaker 1: and as you can kind of slowly tweak it through

1567
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:23,280
Speaker 1: to it on, you can get them to this much

1568
01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:25,640
Speaker 1: wark stream. Oh yeah, talk about Christian identity. I think

1569
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:29,679
Speaker 1: we should, like maybe Matt, you could define it Christian identity.

1570
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:33,160
Speaker 1: It's this radical offshoot of Christianity that sees all white

1571
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:36,680
Speaker 1: people as the true Israelites from the Bible um. And

1572
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:40,679
Speaker 1: they also think Jewish people are all literally the spawn

1573
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 1: of Satan. There's this really dumb theory they came up

1574
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 1: with and like kind of rewrote the whole Bible off

1575
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:50,439
Speaker 1: of called can I name n z okay okay dual

1576
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:52,840
Speaker 1: seed line theory where they say, like the story if

1577
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 1: you know about uh, like Adam and even all that

1578
01:28:57,200 --> 01:29:01,519
Speaker 1: they had can enabled. Right, So they see, um Kane

1579
01:29:02,439 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 1: was the offspring of Eve and the devil and he

1580
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:08,240
Speaker 1: was literally the spawn of Satan and then he intermingled

1581
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:10,720
Speaker 1: with all these races that were there before Adam and

1582
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 1: Eve and created this demonic race. And it's really really

1583
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:18,640
Speaker 1: fucking dumb, but it's still here. It's been here for

1584
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:23,759
Speaker 1: tone's probably gonna keep going. It's gonna get worse calling

1585
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:27,760
Speaker 1: it now, it's gonna get worse. Yeah, but uh, And

1586
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:30,600
Speaker 1: the whole thing is they essentially like worship like a

1587
01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:35,599
Speaker 1: Nazi Jesus. They see Jesus only was really only talking

1588
01:29:35,640 --> 01:29:38,679
Speaker 1: to the white race, and that Christianity and like God

1589
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:42,080
Speaker 1: only is able to be perceived by the white race.

1590
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 1: And before you start laughing at people, because yes it

1591
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 1: does sound very silly, keep in mind that these are

1592
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:50,559
Speaker 1: extremely dangerous, Like, right, this is this is one problem

1593
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:52,519
Speaker 1: with two and on when liberals just start laughing about

1594
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 1: how crazy it is, and then they're so surprised at

1595
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:58,400
Speaker 1: January six, we're like no, no, like it's yeah, like

1596
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:03,720
Speaker 1: they're actually dangerous. Yeah, he's mentioned in a lot and

1597
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 1: he's chricially that has been mentioned in various manifestoes linked

1598
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:13,439
Speaker 1: to you has warned very like organized, like I mean

1599
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:18,160
Speaker 1: historically a big part of like with Christian identity with

1600
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:20,519
Speaker 1: a lot of these kind of like a lot of

1601
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 1: them based their like whole historical context of like arianism

1602
01:30:25,320 --> 01:30:30,000
Speaker 1: on this rewriting of history based on UM a fake

1603
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:35,439
Speaker 1: study that was done in Nazi Germany about uh where

1604
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:39,920
Speaker 1: some proto Indo European languages came from. And so they

1605
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 1: believe that like white people came from uh an area

1606
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:47,080
Speaker 1: that's you know, you could generally say it's sort of

1607
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:51,680
Speaker 1: near the Black Sea. UM, and that it's based on

1608
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 1: this like strange idea that like Sanskrit is not the

1609
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:03,120
Speaker 1: oldest language, but like are you pointing the gun at

1610
01:31:03,160 --> 01:31:11,719
Speaker 1: me because I'm stepping in you, I think it actually

1611
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:18,200
Speaker 1: is useful and yeah, there there is actual They really

1612
01:31:18,280 --> 01:31:20,880
Speaker 1: tried to push this. They made UM a lot of

1613
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: fake studies that you could spend a lot of time

1614
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:28,120
Speaker 1: researching this and believe that it's true, um, because there's

1615
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:30,680
Speaker 1: just so much written about it. And I think this

1616
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:32,600
Speaker 1: is like a tactic that they really tend to do

1617
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 1: with historical revisionism allat is just crank out essay after essay,

1618
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,759
Speaker 1: even if it's wrong, even if it's totally like based

1619
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:45,040
Speaker 1: on false data or just skew data. If they don't care,

1620
01:31:45,120 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: they just write about it, and that they think that

1621
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:50,639
Speaker 1: like having more written about it makes it more legitimate.

1622
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 1: And if that's what we are talking have been talking

1623
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:57,240
Speaker 1: about this this whole time we've been not recording, is

1624
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 1: there's just an overflow of content that is so easy

1625
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:04,599
Speaker 1: to access, you know, not necessarily from these specificers they're

1626
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:10,000
Speaker 1: talking about, just from the further right. In general, I

1627
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:12,720
Speaker 1: just overflow the content. It's like always the top ship

1628
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:16,320
Speaker 1: on Facebook. To give an idea of how pervasive even

1629
01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 1: that idea of like where Indo European languages came from,

1630
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:21,479
Speaker 1: Like when I still went to college, I took the

1631
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:23,920
Speaker 1: Religions of South Asia course and we had to spend

1632
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 1: like multiple days where a professor went through these myths

1633
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 1: about like what was the Arian invasion, which like was

1634
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 1: there are arian people that that is a thing historically, Yes,

1635
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:41,439
Speaker 1: they're not white people, but like going through a definition

1636
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:44,920
Speaker 1: of white people. Sure, based on language, they think of

1637
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:51,000
Speaker 1: arianism as like referring to a linguistic pattern. Yeah, but

1638
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:53,680
Speaker 1: like in a university course, we still had to go

1639
01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:56,920
Speaker 1: through and like debunk these myths because they've gotten so

1640
01:32:57,160 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 1: pervasive within the culture. Yeah. And another thing I want

1641
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: to say is that kind of these more entry level

1642
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:11,439
Speaker 1: conspiracy ideas, it is hard to over emphasize how small

1643
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,680
Speaker 1: the spaces between the entry level stuff and the much

1644
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 1: harder stuff. It can happen extremely extremely you know, I'll

1645
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 1: give I'll give an example. I went to you know,

1646
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:24,720
Speaker 1: I was reporting on an anti vax protest and they

1647
01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:28,080
Speaker 1: went straight into talking about New World Order and and

1648
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 1: Project locks, Lockstep and and the raw Childs and the

1649
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:34,479
Speaker 1: Builderers and like the Sabbatines and David Ice ship just

1650
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:36,479
Speaker 1: me and this is this is the middle of the day,

1651
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:39,080
Speaker 1: and like a metropolitan area with a bunch of boomers

1652
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:43,120
Speaker 1: and trump Paths who are getting this like hardcore ship

1653
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:46,240
Speaker 1: pumped at them where you uh, we shall sell that

1654
01:33:46,320 --> 01:33:48,519
Speaker 1: a lot with the national bombing too, like immediately it

1655
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:50,959
Speaker 1: was like, oh, it was actually an attack on dominion,

1656
01:33:51,240 --> 01:33:55,560
Speaker 1: and also it was orchestrated by the roths Childs to

1657
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:58,840
Speaker 1: destroy evidence of voter I forgot that that and then

1658
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 1: also there as a whole like there a bunch of

1659
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:02,160
Speaker 1: stuff that came up later is a big conspiracy that

1660
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:03,880
Speaker 1: it was actually a missile strike. I had to talk

1661
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:08,680
Speaker 1: my grandpa down from that. There was a video that

1662
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 1: circulated for a while about that. I had to get

1663
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:13,760
Speaker 1: into a conversation with my grandpa, but at the time

1664
01:34:13,880 --> 01:34:19,120
Speaker 1: was super isolated because of COVID and that's a whole yeah,

1665
01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:20,920
Speaker 1: And I had to like talk him down and show

1666
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:23,840
Speaker 1: him like, no, here's uh, here's a video from somebody

1667
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:25,479
Speaker 1: I knew who was like somewhat in the area and

1668
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:28,120
Speaker 1: saw the explosion and like, and there was not a

1669
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 1: missile anywhere. They One of the data studies that I've

1670
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,719
Speaker 1: done is UM and worked on is using big pool

1671
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 1: and small pool discord servers of far right extremists UM,

1672
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:46,639
Speaker 1: far right militia groups and UM very very accelerationist skull

1673
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:50,719
Speaker 1: mass that network UM and looking at the big pools

1674
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:55,000
Speaker 1: and the small pools and seeing the app mentioned between them. Yeah,

1675
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:59,840
Speaker 1: and there was not one person who was more than

1676
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:04,000
Speaker 1: three nodes away from anybody else. So it's very it

1677
01:35:04,120 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 1: can't be overstated how close people are from entry to

1678
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:16,439
Speaker 1: very very very extreme h types of goals and andy

1679
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:20,360
Speaker 1: explicit ideologies that explicitly pushed violence. And you know, another

1680
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 1: point I want to bring up is um like, yeah,

1681
01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:26,200
Speaker 1: there's been much said about Qunan isn't going away, It's

1682
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:28,920
Speaker 1: just not called qun On anymore. Um with with these

1683
01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:34,519
Speaker 1: anti vax mobilizations, those mobilizations and groups aren't going away.

1684
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:36,920
Speaker 1: They're just going to continue to shift in evolve their focus.

1685
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:41,679
Speaker 1: And the networks say they're planning for it like they've

1686
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 1: they've they've they've designed it that way. So I sometimes

1687
01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:49,479
Speaker 1: I find the normal stuff first, sometimes I find the

1688
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:53,120
Speaker 1: crazy stuff first. But I mean, not even that long ago,

1689
01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:56,160
Speaker 1: I came across a particular social media profile but was

1690
01:35:56,400 --> 01:35:58,960
Speaker 1: explicitly calling for acts of terror and attempting to organize

1691
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:01,040
Speaker 1: act of terror, displaying ACCEP tear, which is like an

1692
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 1: immediate problem that needs to be dealt with. However, they

1693
01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:08,040
Speaker 1: had multiple alternate accounts that you follow that path, and

1694
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 1: on their other accounts they're sharing like Tucker Carlson stuff

1695
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:14,640
Speaker 1: like things that your grandparents are going to watch right like,

1696
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:17,439
Speaker 1: and that is done on purpose to try to like

1697
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:23,040
Speaker 1: siphon people out of um more quote unquote mainstream versions

1698
01:36:23,160 --> 01:36:27,360
Speaker 1: of like conspiratorial thinking directly into like you should start

1699
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:30,720
Speaker 1: exploding things, and even even more even more let's say,

1700
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:34,599
Speaker 1: left of center conspiracy thinking ties into this what does

1701
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:38,400
Speaker 1: and it's not. You know, conspiracy theories are not solely

1702
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 1: a thing of the right, which which pass me off

1703
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:44,680
Speaker 1: to no end. No, I just want to back you

1704
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:46,600
Speaker 1: up on that, Like I think there's this maybe this

1705
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: like implicit idea that the left is immune to conspiracy theories,

1706
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:58,080
Speaker 1: when it very much is. Yeah, I just wanted to

1707
01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:01,320
Speaker 1: emphasize that point that I yet though of like never

1708
01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:04,800
Speaker 1: being that far from the serious stuff is something that's

1709
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:09,760
Speaker 1: really really observable, even beyond like a data level. I

1710
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:12,640
Speaker 1: I used to like consult with local newsrooms on how

1711
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:15,240
Speaker 1: to report on things, and one of the big points

1712
01:37:15,240 --> 01:37:17,320
Speaker 1: I always tried to drill in was like, if you

1713
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:20,679
Speaker 1: fuck this up and you frame this the wrong way,

1714
01:37:21,080 --> 01:37:24,519
Speaker 1: it will have consequences. And if this is stepping in

1715
01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:30,040
Speaker 1: it too much, we can cut But like the um

1716
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 1: Dylan Roof Dylan Roof started his journey to radicalization by

1717
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:42,240
Speaker 1: reading about Trayvon Martin in local news websites and local

1718
01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:46,760
Speaker 1: newspapers and then googling black on white crime and his

1719
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:53,360
Speaker 1: first result comes up exactly and like it does not.

1720
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 1: It did not take long for him to go from

1721
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 1: I am reading local news articles that are framed this

1722
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 1: specific way to I am killing people. That's not normal,

1723
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:08,240
Speaker 1: of course, like a lot of people are not going

1724
01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:10,880
Speaker 1: to be reading local news and then suddenly start to

1725
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:13,799
Speaker 1: think this way, but like there is a concerted effort

1726
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:20,559
Speaker 1: by some very specific people who would like to make

1727
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:27,200
Speaker 1: that pathway easier. It's well, it's interesting because we don't

1728
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:30,040
Speaker 1: we can't like define it really as terrorism. What are

1729
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:33,200
Speaker 1: they doing. They're really just they're just saying things. They're

1730
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 1: just encouraging people to do things, and like they're not,

1731
01:38:37,439 --> 01:38:40,080
Speaker 1: like they're not doing anything wrong. We can't really call

1732
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 1: it terrorism. The most dangerous people in this game are

1733
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 1: usually not the ones doing the shooting, people behind the

1734
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:49,559
Speaker 1: scenes trying to go on these paths in the first

1735
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:51,680
Speaker 1: looking for people who are willing and then so they

1736
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:55,320
Speaker 1: see somebody reading local news maybe and they want to

1737
01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:57,760
Speaker 1: make that pathway easier. For to go from local news

1738
01:38:57,840 --> 01:39:01,040
Speaker 1: and Dylan Roof like because that's not a normal jump.

1739
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:05,439
Speaker 1: But they really want to find people who are looking

1740
01:39:05,479 --> 01:39:08,400
Speaker 1: at local news like that and then say to them like, well, okay,

1741
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:10,280
Speaker 1: you look at this, now look at that trying to

1742
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:12,600
Speaker 1: try respect to climate change. How do you see do

1743
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:15,000
Speaker 1: you see a similar pathway instead of instead of someone

1744
01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:18,599
Speaker 1: googling no black white crime, like googling stuff about collapse

1745
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:23,280
Speaker 1: and and like modern motion. Eric Stryker, I don't know.

1746
01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:26,000
Speaker 1: Eric Striker has been on about this, and I think

1747
01:39:26,040 --> 01:39:30,680
Speaker 1: that he's a i mean relatively like middle point that

1748
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 1: people get to like fairly like average people do listen

1749
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:41,559
Speaker 1: to things like Eric Stryker entry level explicit Nazi. Yeah.

1750
01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:45,120
Speaker 1: And another thing, cut me off if we don't want

1751
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:48,280
Speaker 1: to go in this direction. But you know, one of

1752
01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:51,360
Speaker 1: the biggest places where we see young people getting into

1753
01:39:51,360 --> 01:40:03,000
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories is TikTok alright, TikTok cut that cut that

1754
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:05,200
Speaker 1: cut that we're not we're not cutting that. That is

1755
01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:08,719
Speaker 1: that is with the pod. Yeah. I mean, the biggest

1756
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 1: entry points I've seen for a lot of things remains crisis. Yeah.

1757
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:18,080
Speaker 1: And the thing is this, our upcoming climate scenario is

1758
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:21,439
Speaker 1: going to give people an easier jumping on point. Well, yeah,

1759
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:23,240
Speaker 1: that's so. I mean we were talking about how like

1760
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:27,240
Speaker 1: the mythology of like like black on white crime and

1761
01:40:27,280 --> 01:40:30,120
Speaker 1: all this stuff. They're trying to create a situation that,

1762
01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 1: you know, with the urgency that justifies fascism, which on

1763
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 1: its own is unjustifiable and ridiculous. But when there's a crisis,

1764
01:40:38,960 --> 01:40:41,960
Speaker 1: climate change is the existential threat that they've been trying

1765
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:44,559
Speaker 1: to artificially create, and they no longer have to. They

1766
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:46,439
Speaker 1: now get to skip a lot of steps and save

1767
01:40:46,439 --> 01:40:48,200
Speaker 1: a lot of energy by just planting at the fact

1768
01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:52,720
Speaker 1: that everything is literally on fire and that like that

1769
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:55,680
Speaker 1: that makes it so much quicker. State, we have to

1770
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:59,920
Speaker 1: do something. We have all the guns. Now would be

1771
01:41:00,200 --> 01:41:03,240
Speaker 1: great time to join it in our power. This kid,

1772
01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:06,479
Speaker 1: this this is our Mr Era hyper inflation type ship.

1773
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:10,639
Speaker 1: I mean, this is like when you're when you can't

1774
01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:14,200
Speaker 1: get food from the grocery store anymore because of supply

1775
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:16,559
Speaker 1: chain problems, or when everything around you is on fire.

1776
01:41:16,920 --> 01:41:18,680
Speaker 1: You don't need like a grace, you don't need a

1777
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:21,120
Speaker 1: great replacement theory. No, you don't need anything. You don't

1778
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:25,160
Speaker 1: need to say that the Rothchilds are behind you. You

1779
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:27,320
Speaker 1: haven't just need to wait, you have you have enough

1780
01:41:27,400 --> 01:41:31,000
Speaker 1: things that you experience yourself, and it's much scarier when

1781
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:33,920
Speaker 1: you can't because I can't, Like like how do we

1782
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:37,800
Speaker 1: how do we stop? Yeah? I can't. It's hard. It's

1783
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:40,720
Speaker 1: literally on fire. It's it's a problem and something needs

1784
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:42,639
Speaker 1: to be done about it. I don't like your solution,

1785
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:46,120
Speaker 1: but something needs to happen. So what what what do

1786
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:48,120
Speaker 1: you think on this path? And this is gonna get

1787
01:41:48,120 --> 01:41:50,280
Speaker 1: a whole lot more speculative, but like, what can we

1788
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:54,000
Speaker 1: do to make people falling down those pathways less often?

1789
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 1: Like like, yes, that is that, that's that's one of

1790
01:41:58,520 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 1: the things that we're trying to do on the PA

1791
01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:02,439
Speaker 1: is making sure that people do not fall full down

1792
01:42:02,560 --> 01:42:05,519
Speaker 1: the the doom or path because yeah, this that that

1793
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:11,760
Speaker 1: does get people along down em like against like like

1794
01:42:11,880 --> 01:42:16,080
Speaker 1: against most types of extremism. Eco extremism is mostly logical.

1795
01:42:16,240 --> 01:42:17,760
Speaker 1: Like you look at it and you say, we need

1796
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:23,400
Speaker 1: a radical change right now, and that's correct. Um, it's

1797
01:42:23,439 --> 01:42:25,280
Speaker 1: just the way that they go about it is very

1798
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:27,760
Speaker 1: very different, and that's why, like you know, eco fascism

1799
01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:30,440
Speaker 1: is very different. It's its own type of eco extremism,

1800
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:33,479
Speaker 1: and there's in green anarchy, that's a very different type

1801
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:37,840
Speaker 1: of eco extremism. Like these are all different parts of

1802
01:42:38,680 --> 01:42:41,640
Speaker 1: something that almost has the same goals but wants to

1803
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:44,560
Speaker 1: go about them very very very differently. And it's so

1804
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:47,000
Speaker 1: easy to just look around and see how everything's on

1805
01:42:47,120 --> 01:42:49,880
Speaker 1: fire and think like the government's doing nothing about it.

1806
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:52,200
Speaker 1: The government starts doing something about it, and then suddenly

1807
01:42:52,240 --> 01:42:55,080
Speaker 1: it's the state's two bigs were in communism, you know.

1808
01:42:55,439 --> 01:42:58,320
Speaker 1: So they all of like different goals and it's very

1809
01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:00,560
Speaker 1: conflicting on how to how to deal with and like

1810
01:43:01,160 --> 01:43:05,519
Speaker 1: even the very different tactics between green anarchy and like

1811
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:09,280
Speaker 1: fascistic you extremism, they also will get two different endicals, right,

1812
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:12,800
Speaker 1: like you like your your basic amprim what's a very

1813
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:16,120
Speaker 1: different life than you're you know, very you know, very

1814
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:20,120
Speaker 1: stepping in it pilled fascist? Right. A collapse can only

1815
01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:25,000
Speaker 1: benefit the right. A collapse can only benefit the people

1816
01:43:25,080 --> 01:43:28,679
Speaker 1: who already have power, who already able bodied, who already

1817
01:43:29,680 --> 01:43:34,080
Speaker 1: stocked up on guns, who already like, yeah, that does

1818
01:43:34,200 --> 01:43:36,719
Speaker 1: frustrate me with their being anarchists who are like rooting

1819
01:43:36,760 --> 01:43:39,600
Speaker 1: for the e collapse because you're not gonna win, like

1820
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:45,800
Speaker 1: you're just going somewhere, Yeah, well, they have very strict

1821
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:48,000
Speaker 1: ideas of which people count as human and the goal

1822
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:50,720
Speaker 1: of the majority of fascist movements is to you know,

1823
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:52,920
Speaker 1: purge the ranks of the people they see is lesser,

1824
01:43:53,320 --> 01:43:56,599
Speaker 1: and they have they have they have very precise ideas

1825
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:59,320
Speaker 1: about who they plan on letting to survive the collapse.

1826
01:44:01,479 --> 01:44:03,599
Speaker 1: So let's let's I think it's time to start talking

1827
01:44:03,600 --> 01:44:05,120
Speaker 1: about and tell me if I'm taking this in the

1828
01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:07,920
Speaker 1: long direction. You know what the funding someone who's listening

1829
01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:15,000
Speaker 1: to this, Yeah, no, stop recycling, it's it's all getting

1830
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:21,840
Speaker 1: buried in the Oregan force. Just vote. Let mean, like,

1831
01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:25,080
Speaker 1: what made you start local? Find a local group, find

1832
01:44:25,120 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 1: a local direct action group. Investigate that group and see

1833
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:33,080
Speaker 1: who is behind it. But find start locally. It has

1834
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:37,680
Speaker 1: to start at the local level. Because when I'm t say,

1835
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, if the collapse comes or like or

1836
01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:46,360
Speaker 1: the collapse like local local collapses, disasters, confusis disasters are

1837
01:44:46,400 --> 01:44:48,880
Speaker 1: gonna affect at the local level. No, talk to your

1838
01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:51,560
Speaker 1: talk to your neighbors, neber talk to your family, Like,

1839
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:55,040
Speaker 1: let's try to get your family on these paths that

1840
01:44:55,200 --> 01:44:58,400
Speaker 1: lead to helping your neighbors instead of you know, making

1841
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:00,880
Speaker 1: friends with the church. Militia. Before you buy a gun,

1842
01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:04,360
Speaker 1: learn how to fucking garden. Yes, but buying a gun

1843
01:45:04,800 --> 01:45:08,120
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing is is good. It's good

1844
01:45:08,160 --> 01:45:11,360
Speaker 1: to know how to use firearms. Basic preparedness, yes, but

1845
01:45:11,640 --> 01:45:13,400
Speaker 1: learn learn how to put on our turn to learn

1846
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:16,519
Speaker 1: how to feed yourself. Learn how to grow some fucking food.

1847
01:45:16,720 --> 01:45:19,240
Speaker 1: Learn how to cook that fucking food. Get an effect.

1848
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:21,720
Speaker 1: All that comes before, like you get to be a

1849
01:45:21,840 --> 01:45:28,479
Speaker 1: follow up character. Yeah, oh yeah, an individual first aid kit.

1850
01:45:28,600 --> 01:45:32,760
Speaker 1: You can buy them on the stores. You can. You

1851
01:45:32,760 --> 01:45:34,519
Speaker 1: can buy them in like some pawn shops. Yeah, I

1852
01:45:34,600 --> 01:45:37,400
Speaker 1: like North American Rescue or North River Rescue. I'm sure

1853
01:45:37,439 --> 01:45:40,599
Speaker 1: we'll find what I attacks more on the poduct. Well there, Look,

1854
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:42,600
Speaker 1: there are two big things. One, we all have a

1855
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:46,840
Speaker 1: moral obligation to consistently counter the black pill doom er ship.

1856
01:45:47,320 --> 01:45:50,280
Speaker 1: Everything is coming to an end, like it doesn't have to.

1857
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:53,720
Speaker 1: That's optional. Like weed. Things are going to get bad,

1858
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:57,400
Speaker 1: but there's degrees of that. We can stop it from being.

1859
01:45:57,479 --> 01:46:00,320
Speaker 1: And you don't need civilizational We don't need civilizytion to

1860
01:46:00,439 --> 01:46:03,120
Speaker 1: end like that can be done. Step two. We also

1861
01:46:03,200 --> 01:46:06,120
Speaker 1: have an obligation to counter the individualist stuff and and

1862
01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 1: and focus our efforts more towards towards community and relationships.

1863
01:46:11,479 --> 01:46:13,599
Speaker 1: That is so so important because every idiot that's gonna

1864
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:15,640
Speaker 1: buy a gonna have a bunker not only is not

1865
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:17,320
Speaker 1: gonna make it, it's gonna screw the rest of us.

1866
01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:18,920
Speaker 1: Like this has to be a communal effort and a

1867
01:46:19,120 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 1: civilization thing, Like we do need the civilization to change,

1868
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:24,800
Speaker 1: like we need human society, as we lay out, we

1869
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:27,320
Speaker 1: as has a lot of problems. I understand people's critiques

1870
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:30,280
Speaker 1: of human civilization. We still need a society, but yeah,

1871
01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:32,880
Speaker 1: we we need we need places that you know, people

1872
01:46:32,920 --> 01:46:35,760
Speaker 1: are going to Catherine and people, you know, provide the

1873
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:37,599
Speaker 1: things that we have. Um. I noticed that that can

1874
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:41,000
Speaker 1: be a loaded word on certain political circles. So I'm

1875
01:46:41,040 --> 01:46:43,280
Speaker 1: not you know, we're not getting into like civilization theory

1876
01:46:43,320 --> 01:46:45,479
Speaker 1: and that kind of anything. I was gonna say, I

1877
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 1: would argue any ideology or ideas just the boogaloo that

1878
01:46:50,280 --> 01:46:53,519
Speaker 1: uh kind of hypes up a collapse is generally one.

1879
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:55,599
Speaker 1: You should stay away from anything that makes the collapse

1880
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:59,599
Speaker 1: sound like it makes it sound sexy and personal story.

1881
01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:01,519
Speaker 1: As think it's important to remember, like if there was

1882
01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:04,479
Speaker 1: some massive civil conflict that happened, I think the people

1883
01:47:04,479 --> 01:47:07,559
Speaker 1: who would suffer the most or the noncombatants talk about

1884
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:10,719
Speaker 1: to deal with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll talk about

1885
01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 1: kind of episode of terrorism. Bad. Um, well we'll do

1886
01:47:13,479 --> 01:47:15,920
Speaker 1: plugs of the end. Hold put the gun back in

1887
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:19,519
Speaker 1: your pants together. I was talking about historical precedent earlier,

1888
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:22,600
Speaker 1: about things we've seen in the past with collapses and

1889
01:47:22,680 --> 01:47:25,840
Speaker 1: how people with guns and people who with training end

1890
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:28,880
Speaker 1: up being the ones who gained power. Um. Something that

1891
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:32,160
Speaker 1: like I was specifically reading about that was, um, like

1892
01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:36,200
Speaker 1: the Rwandan genocide. If you know, it was just three

1893
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:40,880
Speaker 1: months where most of the Fusie people were wiped out. Um.

1894
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:45,000
Speaker 1: There are conflicting numbers, so I'm not gonna specifically say

1895
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:49,200
Speaker 1: any but um, you know the more recently like this year.

1896
01:47:49,280 --> 01:47:53,120
Speaker 1: Earlier this year, Um was only when Rwanda admitted what

1897
01:47:53,240 --> 01:47:57,240
Speaker 1: it was, that it was a genocide. And um, the people,

1898
01:47:57,320 --> 01:48:02,280
Speaker 1: the armed forces were the ones who came like the

1899
01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:05,400
Speaker 1: leaders and then they were backed by the government. That

1900
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 1: can't happen in America. Yeah, and it's like it can't

1901
01:48:13,000 --> 01:48:16,360
Speaker 1: happen here though we are we are immune to this

1902
01:48:16,680 --> 01:48:19,000
Speaker 1: in our spot of the world called it will not

1903
01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:23,160
Speaker 1: happen here. And the other thing is look at where

1904
01:48:23,200 --> 01:48:26,200
Speaker 1: you get your information from. Seriously, no matter who you are,

1905
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:29,000
Speaker 1: take a long, hard look at who you get your information,

1906
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:31,880
Speaker 1: even if you're on the left, especially if you're you're

1907
01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:33,120
Speaker 1: on the left. You know, if you want to hear

1908
01:48:33,160 --> 01:48:36,479
Speaker 1: about something that's happening in an area, look at the

1909
01:48:36,479 --> 01:48:39,080
Speaker 1: people who are actually on the ground reporting. People don't

1910
01:48:39,120 --> 01:48:44,840
Speaker 1: just rely on like news aggregators. Especially on Twitter. There's

1911
01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:48,200
Speaker 1: been a lot of bad, very bad faith news agreators

1912
01:48:48,240 --> 01:48:50,000
Speaker 1: on Twitter who are posing a leftist. This has been

1913
01:48:50,040 --> 01:48:53,519
Speaker 1: a huge problem. Even leftists who just don't do that

1914
01:48:54,200 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 1: just do a very bad job. People call themselves like

1915
01:48:57,240 --> 01:49:02,000
Speaker 1: car extremism or counter terms and researchers, and they are

1916
01:49:02,120 --> 01:49:06,280
Speaker 1: really talking about anti They say that they are counter

1917
01:49:06,360 --> 01:49:10,000
Speaker 1: extremism researchers, and they pose that way, and they look

1918
01:49:10,840 --> 01:49:13,840
Speaker 1: sometimes like they could be Sometimes I think not they're not,

1919
01:49:14,080 --> 01:49:17,760
Speaker 1: but like you know, vary varying degrees of life, legitimacy,

1920
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:24,920
Speaker 1: but like they focus only on like the left wing stuff.

1921
01:49:25,040 --> 01:49:29,960
Speaker 1: They don't think they don't it has to be this

1922
01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:32,400
Speaker 1: idea of like keeping it balanced right, like not making

1923
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:35,439
Speaker 1: it just like a far right issue, which I would argue.

1924
01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:37,560
Speaker 1: I think a lot of other people would that this

1925
01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:44,040
Speaker 1: kind of stuff is more concerning issue and there is

1926
01:49:44,160 --> 01:49:50,000
Speaker 1: like merit definitely to looking at left acceleration which is

1927
01:49:50,080 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 1: not for the record, like left accelerationism is not talking

1928
01:49:55,080 --> 01:50:00,760
Speaker 1: about anti fascists. But um, that's out time to get

1929
01:50:00,760 --> 01:50:05,920
Speaker 1: like we left accelerations and will will be its own episode.

1930
01:50:05,960 --> 01:50:11,280
Speaker 1: But what what some people do posing as um, you know,

1931
01:50:11,439 --> 01:50:17,120
Speaker 1: people who have credibility and are able to um kind

1932
01:50:17,160 --> 01:50:22,600
Speaker 1: of sway opinion, They are not really doing what they

1933
01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:25,719
Speaker 1: say that they're doing. They're really just trying to shift

1934
01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:30,640
Speaker 1: the narrative form of racially motivated violent extremism, which is

1935
01:50:30,680 --> 01:50:36,200
Speaker 1: a big obviously having to being like BLM is racially

1936
01:50:36,280 --> 01:50:39,200
Speaker 1: motivated violent extremism, and they want to push that narrative

1937
01:50:39,280 --> 01:50:41,960
Speaker 1: further and further. I think let's let's let' let's go,

1938
01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:44,600
Speaker 1: let's kind of price start to like wrap up and

1939
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:46,720
Speaker 1: say our final thoughts on you know, this whole this

1940
01:50:46,840 --> 01:50:49,559
Speaker 1: whole topic. Um, I know, we we didn't. We didn't

1941
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:52,000
Speaker 1: we did, we did We did not get to talk

1942
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:55,160
Speaker 1: about like eco defense very much. Anyone has any final

1943
01:50:55,200 --> 01:50:56,720
Speaker 1: thoughts on that and how they see it kind of

1944
01:50:56,760 --> 01:51:00,200
Speaker 1: growing and how they see the state's response to it. Um,

1945
01:51:00,520 --> 01:51:02,640
Speaker 1: that might be worth briefly mentioning. But yeah, let's kind

1946
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:04,080
Speaker 1: of let's just kind of go around in a circle

1947
01:51:04,120 --> 01:51:06,200
Speaker 1: and give kind of everyone's you know, final thoughts on

1948
01:51:06,240 --> 01:51:11,600
Speaker 1: the on the subjects. Um, I think collapse is is

1949
01:51:11,720 --> 01:51:17,280
Speaker 1: bad and I think that well, I mean that's my

1950
01:51:17,360 --> 01:51:20,840
Speaker 1: main my main thing. But anything that's appealing to you

1951
01:51:22,479 --> 01:51:25,560
Speaker 1: and on like an ecological level that's collapse related to

1952
01:51:25,640 --> 01:51:27,519
Speaker 1: something you should be very wary of. And I think

1953
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:30,439
Speaker 1: you should be ware very wary of, like generally everything.

1954
01:51:30,640 --> 01:51:33,200
Speaker 1: I feel like it's kind of like a butchered be

1955
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:38,400
Speaker 1: careful about everything. Um. Yeah, I guess in my opinion,

1956
01:51:38,439 --> 01:51:42,559
Speaker 1: the idea of total collapse is very misleading because it's

1957
01:51:42,640 --> 01:51:46,760
Speaker 1: easy and disasters don't work like that. You're not gonna

1958
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:50,800
Speaker 1: suddenly reset one day. Um, everything is going to suck

1959
01:51:51,120 --> 01:51:54,360
Speaker 1: and you're going to need to fight for whatever semblance

1960
01:51:54,439 --> 01:51:56,439
Speaker 1: of a society that you want to see in the world.

1961
01:51:57,160 --> 01:51:59,040
Speaker 1: Talk to you fucking neighbors, that kind of people in

1962
01:51:59,120 --> 01:52:02,240
Speaker 1: your city, in your nighborhood. There are people doing good

1963
01:52:02,280 --> 01:52:05,080
Speaker 1: ship in whatever city town you live in. Most likely,

1964
01:52:05,120 --> 01:52:07,360
Speaker 1: if not, you can start it. Look at your local

1965
01:52:07,479 --> 01:52:10,320
Speaker 1: mutual aid network, Look at the people who are taking

1966
01:52:10,360 --> 01:52:13,800
Speaker 1: action around and get involved seriously. You know it could

1967
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:16,120
Speaker 1: be going out into a park Saturday mornings and just

1968
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:19,680
Speaker 1: like giving out food, talking to the people who are

1969
01:52:19,720 --> 01:52:22,840
Speaker 1: most affective people. Seriously, if every once a person you

1970
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:26,559
Speaker 1: need to talk to touch grass people. If you need,

1971
01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:29,160
Speaker 1: like the most basic thing to start on any sort

1972
01:52:29,160 --> 01:52:30,800
Speaker 1: of mutual aid work trying to find a food not

1973
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:34,760
Speaker 1: ball chapter. And they're well organized, they're easy to join.

1974
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:37,559
Speaker 1: You don't have to put on block and fight a cop.

1975
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:41,200
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's a good entry point and it's it's great.

1976
01:52:41,280 --> 01:52:44,160
Speaker 1: It's great training for for disaster relief. If you have

1977
01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:47,479
Speaker 1: money and you want to help, seriously, just give pass

1978
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:49,920
Speaker 1: to on house, people on the street, give money, give

1979
01:52:49,960 --> 01:52:54,280
Speaker 1: money to people, give money directly to people. Yep. Uh.

1980
01:52:54,560 --> 01:52:57,160
Speaker 1: My last thoughts are just that I think the idea

1981
01:52:57,200 --> 01:53:00,759
Speaker 1: of collapse or whether actual collapse themselves and mental or otherwise,

1982
01:53:00,920 --> 01:53:03,840
Speaker 1: will always be something to rally behind, Like it is

1983
01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:06,880
Speaker 1: always an entry points as well as motivator from from

1984
01:53:06,920 --> 01:53:10,040
Speaker 1: all for all sides, from all sides. Um. But it's

1985
01:53:10,080 --> 01:53:12,439
Speaker 1: like when these things become very silent, like was mentioned before,

1986
01:53:12,479 --> 01:53:15,800
Speaker 1: when they're outside of your door, that's when you know

1987
01:53:17,400 --> 01:53:19,479
Speaker 1: that's when like the ideology kind of hits the pavement,

1988
01:53:19,560 --> 01:53:22,040
Speaker 1: like what is actually going to play out, what is

1989
01:53:22,040 --> 01:53:24,800
Speaker 1: actually gonna happen, and how that's gonna affect People's very real.

1990
01:53:24,920 --> 01:53:29,439
Speaker 1: So building community, you know, building connections, um, and just

1991
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:32,559
Speaker 1: understanding you know, who is in your community. It's probably

1992
01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:36,439
Speaker 1: one of the most important things. Yeah, the idea of

1993
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:41,240
Speaker 1: collapse is a romantic and ridiculous notion. Uh, come up

1994
01:53:41,280 --> 01:53:44,639
Speaker 1: with people who are like really into like apocalyptic thinking

1995
01:53:44,760 --> 01:53:46,760
Speaker 1: and the version of themselves if they get to be

1996
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:50,240
Speaker 1: the main character. So first and foremost, take care of

1997
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:52,000
Speaker 1: each other. There are a lot of people out there

1998
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:54,080
Speaker 1: who want to manipulate you and want to change the

1999
01:53:54,120 --> 01:53:56,320
Speaker 1: way you think about things, and they really really want

2000
01:53:56,360 --> 01:53:58,680
Speaker 1: you to buy in to the end times and you

2001
01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:03,400
Speaker 1: don't have to because you're smarter than that. Yeah, it's

2002
01:54:03,560 --> 01:54:05,800
Speaker 1: it's not hopeless. We really have to move away from

2003
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:11,559
Speaker 1: hierarchical thinking. Our society really incentivized this hierarchical thinking and thinking.

2004
01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:15,240
Speaker 1: You're saying to a sac like we, um, we really

2005
01:54:15,280 --> 01:54:17,679
Speaker 1: need to just be focusing on people, like if things

2006
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:22,519
Speaker 1: people because you know, somebody doesn't have to you know,

2007
01:54:23,680 --> 01:54:28,120
Speaker 1: earn you know, respect and earn humanity. For some reason,

2008
01:54:28,200 --> 01:54:31,719
Speaker 1: we try and make it seem like that. But people

2009
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:35,360
Speaker 1: are people. Um, people are in different circumstances because of

2010
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:38,600
Speaker 1: usually because of just the way that the world is.

2011
01:54:38,760 --> 01:54:41,720
Speaker 1: And um, yeah, you need to just you need to

2012
01:54:41,840 --> 01:54:43,800
Speaker 1: organize locally. You need to help your own people, and

2013
01:54:46,400 --> 01:54:52,000
Speaker 1: stay away from the internet. Ship stop posting. Don't stop

2014
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:55,520
Speaker 1: posting a stop posting, even though I We'll keep doing

2015
01:54:55,560 --> 01:54:58,880
Speaker 1: it because because I'm the good poster who wants who

2016
01:54:58,920 --> 01:55:05,080
Speaker 1: wants to pluck the pot your product? Follow terrorism bad?

2017
01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:09,960
Speaker 1: We're on that s What is the plot? Like? What what?

2018
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:15,080
Speaker 1: What do you? Yeah? We go through, um, portrayals of

2019
01:55:15,280 --> 01:55:19,320
Speaker 1: terrorism and extremism and conspiracies and conspiracies in popular media,

2020
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:22,200
Speaker 1: and we look at it from the perspective of people

2021
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:25,800
Speaker 1: who studied this and say, did this succeed in portraying

2022
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:28,280
Speaker 1: these things or did it as it more often does

2023
01:55:28,720 --> 01:55:32,760
Speaker 1: problems completely fail and cause us all personal problems become propaganda?

2024
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:35,320
Speaker 1: And like, did you make terror propaganda? Or did you

2025
01:55:35,400 --> 01:55:39,240
Speaker 1: make good media about that is a thin line? Such

2026
01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:41,760
Speaker 1: a thin line made a career out? That is that

2027
01:55:41,920 --> 01:55:44,640
Speaker 1: is the thin terror line? Yeah, do you want to

2028
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:48,520
Speaker 1: plug your fantastic group? Yeah? Absolutely with you can read

2029
01:55:48,520 --> 01:55:50,800
Speaker 1: anything I write at Anti Hate dot c A. And

2030
01:55:51,240 --> 01:55:55,480
Speaker 1: we do just general reporting on h far right extremism

2031
01:55:55,560 --> 01:56:00,720
Speaker 1: in Canada as well as infiltration if I oh, and

2032
01:56:00,800 --> 01:56:04,040
Speaker 1: I also host a podcast called The Unusual Show. Yeah,

2033
01:56:04,480 --> 01:56:06,440
Speaker 1: if you want to keep up to date on extremism

2034
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:08,720
Speaker 1: in Canada. Their group is one of is probably the

2035
01:56:08,760 --> 01:56:12,400
Speaker 1: best one around right now in my opinions. And yeah,

2036
01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:14,480
Speaker 1: and you do, you do, you do very good work.

2037
01:56:14,600 --> 01:56:17,200
Speaker 1: You keep your eye on my home country where my

2038
01:56:17,240 --> 01:56:19,760
Speaker 1: family lives. So thank you for that. Um, and I'm

2039
01:56:19,880 --> 01:56:22,880
Speaker 1: very happy to be talking with you guys in the

2040
01:56:22,920 --> 01:56:25,760
Speaker 1: beautiful woods where we have no cell service. We can't

2041
01:56:25,840 --> 01:56:29,320
Speaker 1: post um and that's good and we're gonna continue doing

2042
01:56:29,360 --> 01:56:33,440
Speaker 1: that and stop using this microphone. So goodbye. UM. Yeah

2043
01:56:33,680 --> 01:56:40,360
Speaker 1: and Terrorism Fat the podcast with that that wraps up

2044
01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:46,320
Speaker 1: the Terrorism round Table Forest Discussion episodes. Thanks for listening

2045
01:56:46,400 --> 01:56:50,960
Speaker 1: to all of us rant about our specific weird niche

2046
01:56:51,200 --> 01:56:55,160
Speaker 1: focuses and hopefully trying to have it within the useful

2047
01:56:55,240 --> 01:56:58,640
Speaker 1: context of climate change. You can follow me at Hungry

2048
01:56:58,680 --> 01:57:02,200
Speaker 1: bow Tie. You can follow the podcast Happen Here pod

2049
01:57:02,280 --> 01:57:06,160
Speaker 1: and cool Zone Media on Twitter and I believe Instagram,

2050
01:57:06,480 --> 01:57:08,920
Speaker 1: you can follow some of the researchers I interviewed UM

2051
01:57:09,000 --> 01:57:12,720
Speaker 1: on their podcast at Terrorism Bad. So that wraps up

2052
01:57:12,760 --> 01:57:16,720
Speaker 1: this discussion. Thanks for listening, See you later in the

2053
01:57:17,000 --> 01:57:34,520
Speaker 1: podcasting verse, the pod verse. Okay, goodbye. What's a problem

2054
01:57:38,160 --> 01:57:42,480
Speaker 1: here the show where I'm a problem. I'm on vacation legally,

2055
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:48,560
Speaker 1: You're not on vacation allegedly legally, But okay in Shelah,

2056
01:57:48,840 --> 01:57:54,800
Speaker 1: I'm drunk. Garrison, you're in charge, now figure it out. Great, Hi,

2057
01:57:55,600 --> 01:58:00,560
Speaker 1: it could happen here today. We are talking with somebody.

2058
01:58:00,680 --> 01:58:02,640
Speaker 1: If you've listened to the past two episodes, you should

2059
01:58:02,640 --> 01:58:07,080
Speaker 1: actually know, uh, THEO who is a journalist and researcher,

2060
01:58:07,640 --> 01:58:11,680
Speaker 1: and we are going to be discussing plans for an

2061
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:16,800
Speaker 1: upcoming rally in Washington, d C. That's has a lot

2062
01:58:16,840 --> 01:58:21,640
Speaker 1: of that seems good. Yeah, this is Uh. Things never happened? When?

2063
01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:26,320
Speaker 1: What happened? What happened last time? But half the last time,

2064
01:58:26,320 --> 01:58:30,040
Speaker 1: I don't I I historically only pay attention to things

2065
01:58:30,120 --> 01:58:35,080
Speaker 1: that happened after May and before December. So I'm unaware

2066
01:58:35,080 --> 01:58:37,960
Speaker 1: of anything bad ever happening in d C. Well, something

2067
01:58:38,000 --> 01:58:42,000
Speaker 1: bad stuff happened there last time. It got it got

2068
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:46,640
Speaker 1: a little spicy, um, okay, spicy, but it's not like

2069
01:58:46,760 --> 01:58:49,600
Speaker 1: they tried to overthrow the government murder elected leaders, right,

2070
01:58:49,960 --> 01:58:53,320
Speaker 1: that is what they are actually having too much fun. Yeah,

2071
01:58:53,520 --> 01:58:56,160
Speaker 1: they're just boys. They were just proud of their boys.

2072
01:58:56,440 --> 01:59:00,240
Speaker 1: A little carried away building. All of the build that

2073
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:05,160
Speaker 1: big hanging contraption whatever it's called gallows gallows. Yeah. Anyway,

2074
01:59:05,600 --> 01:59:07,240
Speaker 1: we're talking THEO. Do you want to do? You want

2075
01:59:07,240 --> 01:59:12,600
Speaker 1: to introduce yourself? Yeah, Hey, guys, I'm theo UM idealist

2076
01:59:13,040 --> 01:59:19,160
Speaker 1: and a researcher. I'm based out of Virginia. Allegedly I

2077
01:59:19,320 --> 01:59:22,120
Speaker 1: end up covering a lot of events in DC because

2078
01:59:22,160 --> 01:59:26,920
Speaker 1: of that, and that's my plans for this weekend. Yeah,

2079
01:59:27,560 --> 01:59:29,160
Speaker 1: do you want to do? You want to give us

2080
01:59:29,240 --> 01:59:33,040
Speaker 1: like an overview of what rallies in DC have been

2081
01:59:33,160 --> 01:59:35,880
Speaker 1: like the past, Let's say like the past year. Um

2082
01:59:36,120 --> 01:59:42,560
Speaker 1: oh boy do I yeah? Let's just for background. Yeah, so,

2083
01:59:43,680 --> 01:59:47,160
Speaker 1: like pretty much immediately post election, as the whole kind

2084
01:59:47,200 --> 01:59:51,400
Speaker 1: of stop the Steel thing got kicked into gear. Um,

2085
01:59:51,480 --> 01:59:54,720
Speaker 1: November fourteen, there was a rally in d c um

2086
01:59:55,920 --> 01:59:58,360
Speaker 1: and then there was one December twelve, and then there

2087
01:59:58,440 --> 02:00:02,400
Speaker 1: is finally one as most are probably aware, on January six.

2088
02:00:04,320 --> 02:00:06,640
Speaker 1: January six, you know, obviously got the bulk of the

2089
02:00:06,720 --> 02:00:10,680
Speaker 1: media coverage. UM, but November fourteenth and especially December twelve

2090
02:00:10,960 --> 02:00:19,520
Speaker 1: were very violent situations in general. UM proud boys, General

2091
02:00:20,240 --> 02:00:27,360
Speaker 1: Chud's a bunch of oathkeepers, bunch of people's confused memas

2092
02:00:27,400 --> 02:00:31,440
Speaker 1: and pat paps showed up. UM would kind of wander

2093
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:39,200
Speaker 1: around the Yeah yeah they did, Yeah, pretty pretty fucked up.

2094
02:00:39,320 --> 02:00:41,280
Speaker 1: I know some people who were there when they did,

2095
02:00:41,400 --> 02:00:47,760
Speaker 1: and it's I don't know, it's sad, like it's really bleak.

2096
02:00:47,920 --> 02:00:51,000
Speaker 1: I was there with the people that you know Ubert,

2097
02:00:52,280 --> 02:00:55,800
Speaker 1: Oh good, yeah, so you I mean, it's just it's

2098
02:00:55,840 --> 02:01:00,280
Speaker 1: so fucking um. I don't know the extent of the disinformation, right,

2099
02:01:00,360 --> 02:01:02,560
Speaker 1: It's hard when you're talking about this to like express

2100
02:01:02,560 --> 02:01:04,960
Speaker 1: a lot of sympathy for some of these people. And

2101
02:01:05,040 --> 02:01:07,200
Speaker 1: I'm not sympathetic towards their aims. I'm not trying to

2102
02:01:07,240 --> 02:01:09,120
Speaker 1: do the New York Times like let's talk to the

2103
02:01:09,160 --> 02:01:12,800
Speaker 1: Trump voter down the street. But like a lot of

2104
02:01:12,880 --> 02:01:15,720
Speaker 1: them are just like they're fucking dumb people who bought

2105
02:01:15,800 --> 02:01:19,320
Speaker 1: into some bullshit and it it destroyed them and their

2106
02:01:19,360 --> 02:01:21,960
Speaker 1: relationships with their families and in some cases cost them

2107
02:01:22,000 --> 02:01:25,880
Speaker 1: their lives and like you don't have to sympathize with

2108
02:01:26,000 --> 02:01:29,440
Speaker 1: them to be like, yeah, that's bleak as ship, you know. Yeah,

2109
02:01:29,600 --> 02:01:32,360
Speaker 1: And I think you see that with the dc rallies

2110
02:01:32,800 --> 02:01:36,640
Speaker 1: really more so than like, uh, Portland's Proud Boy event

2111
02:01:36,760 --> 02:01:40,040
Speaker 1: for example, that is not at all a gathering of

2112
02:01:40,200 --> 02:01:42,840
Speaker 1: like the masses. That's that's a specific group of pieces

2113
02:01:42,880 --> 02:01:46,720
Speaker 1: of ship. Yeah. Yeah, And like you'd have absolutely like

2114
02:01:47,000 --> 02:01:49,920
Speaker 1: units of Proud Boys or oath keepers. We had three

2115
02:01:49,960 --> 02:01:52,720
Speaker 1: per centers some local Virginia militias and they'd kind of

2116
02:01:52,720 --> 02:01:55,960
Speaker 1: be wandering around. But during the day itself you'd normally

2117
02:01:56,040 --> 02:02:00,720
Speaker 1: see like speakers. Alex Jones was there, Um to meet him.

2118
02:02:00,960 --> 02:02:07,440
Speaker 1: That was fun. Um, that's always a meeting Alex. He's

2119
02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:13,520
Speaker 1: a great guy. It was really fun. He's his neck.

2120
02:02:14,440 --> 02:02:16,920
Speaker 1: It's hard to exaggerate how how he is just as

2121
02:02:17,000 --> 02:02:20,680
Speaker 1: red in person. He's so red. And as a guy

2122
02:02:20,720 --> 02:02:23,480
Speaker 1: who's good at strangling, it seems like he would be

2123
02:02:23,520 --> 02:02:28,640
Speaker 1: hard to strangle. Oh, nearly impossible. Like that's so big,

2124
02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:32,240
Speaker 1: it's such like it's like a fucking train car. Like

2125
02:02:32,360 --> 02:02:35,920
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous how big that man's neck is. Look, most

2126
02:02:35,960 --> 02:02:38,520
Speaker 1: people aren't hard to strangle. Alex Jones would be that's

2127
02:02:38,560 --> 02:02:42,480
Speaker 1: not praising him, that's just being honest. So during the

2128
02:02:42,640 --> 02:02:45,280
Speaker 1: day there would be speakers, you know, Alex Jones, and

2129
02:02:45,440 --> 02:02:48,680
Speaker 1: you kind of see people split up into whatever they're

2130
02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:51,720
Speaker 1: specific brand of fucker he is. There's like groups of

2131
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:56,560
Speaker 1: nerdy looking gropers. Um, there were some trad cats wearing

2132
02:02:56,720 --> 02:03:01,160
Speaker 1: road Those guys were fun meant, but yeah, a lot

2133
02:03:01,240 --> 02:03:04,680
Speaker 1: of it's you know, confused, like boomers on Facebook and

2134
02:03:04,760 --> 02:03:08,360
Speaker 1: kind of to Roberts point, like I normally didn't go,

2135
02:03:08,560 --> 02:03:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, wearing press credentials because I value knives being

2136
02:03:11,920 --> 02:03:14,280
Speaker 1: outside of me and not inside of it. Yeah, it's

2137
02:03:14,360 --> 02:03:17,680
Speaker 1: it's good to not get stabbed. Most people appreciate that. Yeah, yeah,

2138
02:03:17,920 --> 02:03:21,120
Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite things. And so I'd get

2139
02:03:21,160 --> 02:03:23,160
Speaker 1: to like talking to these people, especially the older ones,

2140
02:03:23,160 --> 02:03:25,000
Speaker 1: because I take the Metro into the city and they

2141
02:03:25,080 --> 02:03:30,160
Speaker 1: are they're just confused, old people who have gotten in

2142
02:03:30,280 --> 02:03:33,160
Speaker 1: over their heads. But yeah, then like the sun would

2143
02:03:33,200 --> 02:03:37,400
Speaker 1: set and that's when the Proud Boys would really start

2144
02:03:38,680 --> 02:03:44,200
Speaker 1: getting into ship. November they stabbed. I don't know if

2145
02:03:44,200 --> 02:03:46,960
Speaker 1: I'm remembering this correctly, so feel free to fact check me,

2146
02:03:47,080 --> 02:03:50,920
Speaker 1: but I believe there was two people on the Uh,

2147
02:03:51,120 --> 02:03:55,680
Speaker 1: they cracked a girl's skull and then on December twelve,

2148
02:03:57,360 --> 02:04:02,080
Speaker 1: they stabbed one other person and Jeremy Burtino got blayed

2149
02:04:02,480 --> 02:04:05,040
Speaker 1: on the street. He shared it, he shared it, and

2150
02:04:05,120 --> 02:04:08,280
Speaker 1: the fucking d A elected not to prosecute because that

2151
02:04:08,440 --> 02:04:10,880
Speaker 1: was the clearest case of self defense I have ever

2152
02:04:10,960 --> 02:04:14,640
Speaker 1: seen in my life. Um. Yeah, so like, like the

2153
02:04:14,760 --> 02:04:17,560
Speaker 1: dude literally tried to flee three times, he drew his

2154
02:04:17,640 --> 02:04:20,120
Speaker 1: knife after by the third time he was blinded by

2155
02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:22,560
Speaker 1: having a shirt puld and assaulted by a group he

2156
02:04:22,680 --> 02:04:25,640
Speaker 1: had no other choice. Yeah, he did exactly what you're

2157
02:04:25,640 --> 02:04:29,480
Speaker 1: supposed to do in that situation and repeatedly tried to

2158
02:04:29,520 --> 02:04:31,560
Speaker 1: flee and when he did, and he stabbed a motherfucker.

2159
02:04:31,680 --> 02:04:34,640
Speaker 1: And you can't, I I can't. He did nothing wrong

2160
02:04:34,840 --> 02:04:37,600
Speaker 1: in my in my opinion, all the d a's opinion. Yeah,

2161
02:04:38,320 --> 02:04:40,320
Speaker 1: we're all probably better off for it. But yeah, there's

2162
02:04:40,320 --> 02:04:44,280
Speaker 1: this kind of established Uh, there was this established sort

2163
02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:48,520
Speaker 1: of cycle of show up, a bunch of weird Republican

2164
02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:53,200
Speaker 1: politicians that you've never heard of before, give speeches. Uh,

2165
02:04:53,640 --> 02:04:57,320
Speaker 1: you go and kind of wander around, and then the

2166
02:04:57,400 --> 02:05:00,760
Speaker 1: proud Boys come out and they funk around and sometimes

2167
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:04,960
Speaker 1: other groups too, Like January the night before January six,

2168
02:05:05,440 --> 02:05:10,480
Speaker 1: there were people from NSC one one who were hanging

2169
02:05:10,520 --> 02:05:14,480
Speaker 1: out trying to cause trouble, getting in altercations all their

2170
02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:17,520
Speaker 1: normal ship and so yeah, there's this kind of like

2171
02:05:17,760 --> 02:05:22,840
Speaker 1: general mix of groups. January six shifted the paradigm on

2172
02:05:23,000 --> 02:05:24,880
Speaker 1: that a lot. And I think that's the big thing

2173
02:05:24,960 --> 02:05:29,160
Speaker 1: for this weekend is we don't really know what it's

2174
02:05:29,200 --> 02:05:31,600
Speaker 1: gonna look like. Yeah, can you talk about kind of

2175
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:36,000
Speaker 1: what has kind of the event promotion looked like from

2176
02:05:36,040 --> 02:05:38,280
Speaker 1: the right, Like what have they what messages have they

2177
02:05:38,320 --> 02:05:42,240
Speaker 1: been putting out to promote this event with? So yeah,

2178
02:05:42,280 --> 02:05:46,240
Speaker 1: a lot of like the bigger groups have been fairly

2179
02:05:46,360 --> 02:05:52,520
Speaker 1: explicitly saying like don't go officially. Unofficially is a bit

2180
02:05:52,560 --> 02:05:56,120
Speaker 1: of a different story and fairness, It's worth noting that

2181
02:05:56,280 --> 02:06:00,280
Speaker 1: prior to UM the United Rally and Charlote, so the

2182
02:06:00,280 --> 02:06:03,000
Speaker 1: Proud Boys were saying don't go, and an awful lot

2183
02:06:03,040 --> 02:06:05,800
Speaker 1: of their most violent members were at Unite the Right

2184
02:06:05,840 --> 02:06:08,600
Speaker 1: in Charlottesville. You know, it's some some of this is

2185
02:06:08,640 --> 02:06:12,440
Speaker 1: a plausible deniability game. Yeah, So like the official Proud

2186
02:06:12,520 --> 02:06:15,320
Speaker 1: Boys telegram channel was like, oh, this is I mean

2187
02:06:15,360 --> 02:06:17,360
Speaker 1: in different words, but we're pretty much like this is

2188
02:06:17,840 --> 02:06:20,120
Speaker 1: a honeypot, this is a trap, this is an op

2189
02:06:20,720 --> 02:06:24,880
Speaker 1: don't go. Um. But also like we've seen activity that

2190
02:06:25,920 --> 02:06:30,960
Speaker 1: really suggests otherwise. UM, whether it's like smaller, more local

2191
02:06:31,040 --> 02:06:35,520
Speaker 1: groups saying that they want to go or UH streamers

2192
02:06:35,640 --> 02:06:41,200
Speaker 1: and journalists using the word lightly to UH who have

2193
02:06:41,320 --> 02:06:45,360
Speaker 1: pretty close relationships with these groups, hiring extra stringers for

2194
02:06:45,480 --> 02:06:48,440
Speaker 1: the weekend, or looking like they're preparing to report on

2195
02:06:48,560 --> 02:06:52,840
Speaker 1: something big. Yeah, the kind of the I know, we've

2196
02:06:53,440 --> 02:06:57,120
Speaker 1: talked a little bit um online with some of our

2197
02:06:57,240 --> 02:07:01,720
Speaker 1: colleagues and there's definitely a mixed a mixed, a mixed

2198
02:07:01,720 --> 02:07:04,280
Speaker 1: opinion on how big the event is going to be

2199
02:07:04,840 --> 02:07:06,640
Speaker 1: and who's all going to be there and what kind

2200
02:07:06,680 --> 02:07:09,760
Speaker 1: of their goal is, which makes kind of everything all

2201
02:07:09,840 --> 02:07:11,960
Speaker 1: the more tense because you know, it's almost easier to

2202
02:07:12,240 --> 02:07:13,880
Speaker 1: when we know what it's going to be, like we

2203
02:07:14,080 --> 02:07:16,320
Speaker 1: like we have a good grasp and what's gonna happen,

2204
02:07:16,800 --> 02:07:19,840
Speaker 1: and this we're not really sure? Um do you do

2205
02:07:19,960 --> 02:07:22,360
Speaker 1: you know, has there been any kind of response from

2206
02:07:22,400 --> 02:07:25,160
Speaker 1: like local DC officials, like like law enforcement or anything

2207
02:07:25,320 --> 02:07:29,760
Speaker 1: about what they're gonna do at this gathering? So I

2208
02:07:29,840 --> 02:07:32,440
Speaker 1: did see Capital Police is planning to put the fence

2209
02:07:32,520 --> 02:07:36,960
Speaker 1: back up. Um. Probably a good idea, yeah, which like

2210
02:07:37,240 --> 02:07:39,800
Speaker 1: will cover the capital. But there's also a problem with

2211
02:07:39,880 --> 02:07:41,720
Speaker 1: the fence going up, which is the back of the

2212
02:07:41,840 --> 02:07:46,800
Speaker 1: fence goes right up to the end of the Black

2213
02:07:46,920 --> 02:07:50,560
Speaker 1: Lives Matter Plaza in d C, which has been used

2214
02:07:50,560 --> 02:07:55,640
Speaker 1: as kind of a rallying point for uh anti fascist activists,

2215
02:07:55,880 --> 02:08:01,080
Speaker 1: and when that fence is up, it's just it's a funnel.

2216
02:08:02,440 --> 02:08:06,040
Speaker 1: The so it goes like this is an of visual medium.

2217
02:08:06,080 --> 02:08:09,120
Speaker 1: There's a street, uh, and that's where Black Lives Matter

2218
02:08:09,200 --> 02:08:13,280
Speaker 1: plause is and there's only two exits, and both those

2219
02:08:13,360 --> 02:08:16,720
Speaker 1: exits lead to hotels that Proud Boys and Chud's love

2220
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:21,320
Speaker 1: to stay in. So what happens almost without fail is

2221
02:08:21,360 --> 02:08:23,880
Speaker 1: people go and hang out in the plaza. You know,

2222
02:08:24,000 --> 02:08:26,520
Speaker 1: Chud's come down the streets. Police form a line, and

2223
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:31,080
Speaker 1: it's pretty much a pre made kettle, right. So that's

2224
02:08:31,120 --> 02:08:35,400
Speaker 1: like not good. Uh, it's good for the capital, but

2225
02:08:35,640 --> 02:08:37,120
Speaker 1: it's not good for the people that will be on

2226
02:08:37,200 --> 02:08:40,760
Speaker 1: the ground, yeah, because they're also as is most of

2227
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:44,960
Speaker 1: these events, UM, there has been some organizing locally and

2228
02:08:45,080 --> 02:08:48,360
Speaker 1: even you know UH anti fashions from around kind of

2229
02:08:48,400 --> 02:08:51,879
Speaker 1: the country. Trying to like put out advice and feelers

2230
02:08:51,920 --> 02:08:54,800
Speaker 1: and like what to do for the specific gathering. UM.

2231
02:08:55,280 --> 02:08:57,560
Speaker 1: And I know there's been there's been a decent amount

2232
02:08:57,680 --> 02:09:00,839
Speaker 1: of you know, there's there's always like debate eighteen conflict

2233
02:09:00,920 --> 02:09:04,520
Speaker 1: of around how much to show up, where to show up,

2234
02:09:04,640 --> 02:09:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, how proact people should be. Um. But because

2235
02:09:08,600 --> 02:09:10,840
Speaker 1: this is the first big rally since J six, I

2236
02:09:10,880 --> 02:09:13,800
Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot of people. I feel it's

2237
02:09:13,960 --> 02:09:16,560
Speaker 1: much more important and like the people have like you know,

2238
02:09:16,600 --> 02:09:19,200
Speaker 1: there's there's there's like there's like a heightened sense around

2239
02:09:19,240 --> 02:09:22,320
Speaker 1: the specific thing. Um. Do you know, like how many

2240
02:09:22,360 --> 02:09:25,200
Speaker 1: people are kind of roughly planning to show up on

2241
02:09:25,320 --> 02:09:28,880
Speaker 1: like the anti fascist side. It's really hard to tell,

2242
02:09:29,560 --> 02:09:33,280
Speaker 1: um d c anti fascist actions. I've seen you know,

2243
02:09:34,480 --> 02:09:39,839
Speaker 1: a couple dozen people in block towards close to a hundred.

2244
02:09:40,080 --> 02:09:42,800
Speaker 1: I would um, from what I've heard, the kind of

2245
02:09:42,880 --> 02:09:48,400
Speaker 1: main counter demo that's happening is uh definitely less radical

2246
02:09:50,120 --> 02:09:51,880
Speaker 1: and it's kind of trying to establish sort of a

2247
02:09:51,960 --> 02:09:57,040
Speaker 1: community space thing. Uh. So I would say, I don't know,

2248
02:09:57,720 --> 02:10:03,040
Speaker 1: expect around forty to fifty like people who are there

2249
02:10:03,120 --> 02:10:08,280
Speaker 1: to throw hands, Yeah, and a lot more people who

2250
02:10:08,320 --> 02:10:11,640
Speaker 1: are just kind of there. I mean, it's it's this uh,

2251
02:10:12,120 --> 02:10:15,200
Speaker 1: it's this thing we saw. I was in d C

2252
02:10:15,480 --> 02:10:18,960
Speaker 1: for Unite the Right too, you know, the second rally,

2253
02:10:19,960 --> 02:10:21,960
Speaker 1: and it it didn't turn into much of a thing,

2254
02:10:22,400 --> 02:10:25,480
Speaker 1: you know. I think because of the preparation, the expectation,

2255
02:10:25,680 --> 02:10:28,760
Speaker 1: and I guess I'm interested in if you think I'm

2256
02:10:28,800 --> 02:10:31,840
Speaker 1: wrong on this, but my current expectation is that maybe

2257
02:10:32,640 --> 02:10:35,400
Speaker 1: that might be the most likely outcome because because of

2258
02:10:35,480 --> 02:10:39,480
Speaker 1: the degree of and the unexpected event already occurred and

2259
02:10:39,680 --> 02:10:44,200
Speaker 1: was awful, I'm not expecting anyone will be given free leash,

2260
02:10:45,520 --> 02:10:48,640
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I could definitely see that sort of

2261
02:10:48,800 --> 02:10:51,640
Speaker 1: Unite the Right to scenario playing out, especially because it

2262
02:10:51,840 --> 02:10:55,840
Speaker 1: is very similar, like there was this massive shocking event

2263
02:10:56,120 --> 02:11:01,840
Speaker 1: that kind of yeah Lee's attention, Yeah, and so then

2264
02:11:02,040 --> 02:11:04,520
Speaker 1: people will I think the only big difference is, like

2265
02:11:05,200 --> 02:11:08,720
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of Unite the Right, you kind of

2266
02:11:08,840 --> 02:11:13,040
Speaker 1: saw at times of misguided media focus, but still a

2267
02:11:13,120 --> 02:11:19,120
Speaker 1: media focus on anti fascist activists as playing a unique

2268
02:11:19,320 --> 02:11:21,920
Speaker 1: role when you didn't have that for January six, And

2269
02:11:22,000 --> 02:11:25,760
Speaker 1: I think that's that's really one of my bigger worries

2270
02:11:26,040 --> 02:11:31,320
Speaker 1: is less so kind of clashes between Chud's and uh

2271
02:11:31,440 --> 02:11:33,560
Speaker 1: anti fascists, which is still I mean, you know that's

2272
02:11:33,640 --> 02:11:37,040
Speaker 1: always a thing that may happen. But also like you

2273
02:11:37,120 --> 02:11:40,560
Speaker 1: have to think these chuds that are coming. When they

2274
02:11:40,640 --> 02:11:43,880
Speaker 1: look at DC police, they see someone, they see the

2275
02:11:43,920 --> 02:11:48,640
Speaker 1: people who killed Ashley Babbitt. When the DC police look

2276
02:11:49,120 --> 02:11:57,360
Speaker 1: at these chudd's, they're the people who beat someone, beat

2277
02:11:57,400 --> 02:12:00,720
Speaker 1: one of their co workers to death. And you know,

2278
02:12:00,800 --> 02:12:04,040
Speaker 1: like there's Capital Police not same as DC Metro Police,

2279
02:12:04,440 --> 02:12:08,680
Speaker 1: but like in the minds of both these groups, that

2280
02:12:08,840 --> 02:12:13,960
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. And I worry about the tension there.

2281
02:12:15,480 --> 02:12:17,520
Speaker 1: I like, I don't care if they mace each other.

2282
02:12:17,680 --> 02:12:20,200
Speaker 1: You know, if the Proud Boys and cops mace each other,

2283
02:12:20,320 --> 02:12:24,640
Speaker 1: then that's a great day for me. But if it

2284
02:12:24,880 --> 02:12:30,040
Speaker 1: escalates further, and you know, we're seeing that more and

2285
02:12:30,160 --> 02:12:35,040
Speaker 1: more the past, was it past two kind of major

2286
02:12:35,920 --> 02:12:41,160
Speaker 1: right wing rallies in the Pacific Northwest have had shots fired. Yep, yep, ye.

2287
02:12:42,640 --> 02:12:47,080
Speaker 1: Every every reason PW protest has involved gun fire. Yeah,

2288
02:12:47,280 --> 02:12:53,240
Speaker 1: and like the one, the August two one had, I guess,

2289
02:12:53,800 --> 02:12:58,560
Speaker 1: I guess you could call it a legitimate change, Yeah,

2290
02:12:58,840 --> 02:13:02,520
Speaker 1: a casual gunfight. I mean, the the start of it

2291
02:13:02,640 --> 02:13:05,920
Speaker 1: was not legitimate. The right winger who fired was not legitimate. Um,

2292
02:13:06,360 --> 02:13:09,240
Speaker 1: but the two people on the left who responded, we're

2293
02:13:09,280 --> 02:13:12,280
Speaker 1: doing so in self defense. Now, what happened a couple

2294
02:13:12,320 --> 02:13:15,200
Speaker 1: of weeks later, from the video that's come out was

2295
02:13:15,280 --> 02:13:18,160
Speaker 1: not self defense. It was a guy shooting at somebody

2296
02:13:18,240 --> 02:13:21,200
Speaker 1: pursuing them from like fifty feet back, you know. It

2297
02:13:21,280 --> 02:13:23,440
Speaker 1: was not legally what you would call self defense for

2298
02:13:23,560 --> 02:13:27,520
Speaker 1: certain Yeah, and that kind of the precedent that that's set,

2299
02:13:28,960 --> 02:13:31,600
Speaker 1: which I think it's happened a few enough times that

2300
02:13:31,680 --> 02:13:34,880
Speaker 1: we can't really say that it's it's the norm or

2301
02:13:34,920 --> 02:13:39,400
Speaker 1: anything like that, but it's still it's an escalation. It's

2302
02:13:39,880 --> 02:13:44,440
Speaker 1: something absolutely did Like if that, if that had happened

2303
02:13:44,480 --> 02:13:49,160
Speaker 1: in when Unite the Right happened like that would have

2304
02:13:49,240 --> 02:13:53,880
Speaker 1: been unprecedented. It's very frightening, you know, and it it

2305
02:13:54,000 --> 02:13:56,120
Speaker 1: should be. It doesn't matter what you think about the

2306
02:13:56,160 --> 02:14:02,120
Speaker 1: morality of shooting tiny you know, or what ever. Exchanges

2307
02:14:02,160 --> 02:14:07,400
Speaker 1: of fire becoming more common is a threat to everybody,

2308
02:14:07,640 --> 02:14:11,160
Speaker 1: and it is something that should concern everybody. Yeah, I mean,

2309
02:14:11,200 --> 02:14:13,320
Speaker 1: it reminds me a lot of and this was kind

2310
02:14:13,360 --> 02:14:16,840
Speaker 1: of the impetus of the first season of It could

2311
02:14:16,880 --> 02:14:20,600
Speaker 1: happen here but like the early days of something like

2312
02:14:20,880 --> 02:14:23,880
Speaker 1: the Syrians of Award where it went from protests to

2313
02:14:25,360 --> 02:14:29,400
Speaker 1: exchanges of gunfire too, you know what it is Now?

2314
02:14:31,240 --> 02:14:35,800
Speaker 1: Do you think DC specific gun laws um will make

2315
02:14:36,160 --> 02:14:38,600
Speaker 1: gunfire in DC a little bit less likely? Do you think?

2316
02:14:39,000 --> 02:14:41,120
Speaker 1: I don't? Like? Still like the police always have that

2317
02:14:41,200 --> 02:14:44,240
Speaker 1: capacity if they feel, um, you know, if if they

2318
02:14:44,320 --> 02:14:47,400
Speaker 1: choose to. But more specific on like the right between people.

2319
02:14:47,440 --> 02:14:49,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like no boogs are going to

2320
02:14:49,160 --> 02:14:52,320
Speaker 1: show up or whatever. Um, what kind of talk do

2321
02:14:52,360 --> 02:14:57,240
Speaker 1: you see around firearms? So yeah, kind of just from experience,

2322
02:14:57,320 --> 02:15:01,320
Speaker 1: I think my worry with DC's gun laws is only

2323
02:15:01,480 --> 02:15:05,320
Speaker 1: one side will be armed. Every time that Ched has

2324
02:15:05,360 --> 02:15:08,640
Speaker 1: come to d C. I mean they are obviously carrying.

2325
02:15:08,800 --> 02:15:11,720
Speaker 1: I mean, every single one of them is print is printing.

2326
02:15:12,600 --> 02:15:16,320
Speaker 1: You can tell that they have firearms on them. They

2327
02:15:16,360 --> 02:15:19,480
Speaker 1: don't really try to hide it, and none of them

2328
02:15:19,560 --> 02:15:23,160
Speaker 1: have ever I mean, I guess apart from Tario getting

2329
02:15:23,240 --> 02:15:27,720
Speaker 1: arrested for illegal magazines, like, none of them have really

2330
02:15:27,800 --> 02:15:33,480
Speaker 1: faced any consequences for that. And the general fear among

2331
02:15:33,600 --> 02:15:36,200
Speaker 1: people on the left is well, even if I do

2332
02:15:37,600 --> 02:15:41,120
Speaker 1: come and I carry for self defense, if I get arrested,

2333
02:15:41,160 --> 02:15:47,320
Speaker 1: for something unrelated that will enhance whatever charges I get. Yeah, No,

2334
02:15:47,480 --> 02:15:52,040
Speaker 1: it's sketchy and it's um. I don't I'm not convinced

2335
02:15:52,200 --> 02:15:55,400
Speaker 1: in the situation d C is in specifically, that showing

2336
02:15:55,560 --> 02:15:58,680
Speaker 1: up with a fucking firearm is the right call. You know.

2337
02:15:58,920 --> 02:16:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm not in this business to lecture people, but I'm

2338
02:16:00,960 --> 02:16:04,240
Speaker 1: not convinced that's going to help. In the Pacific Northwest,

2339
02:16:04,280 --> 02:16:07,000
Speaker 1: we've seen situations where people with weapons, as on the

2340
02:16:07,040 --> 02:16:11,520
Speaker 1: twenty two, defended themselves and others. And we've seen situations

2341
02:16:11,560 --> 02:16:13,560
Speaker 1: in which people on the web with weapons on the

2342
02:16:13,680 --> 02:16:16,400
Speaker 1: left escalated things. So it's not a it's never a

2343
02:16:16,520 --> 02:16:18,720
Speaker 1: zero sum game, you know, it's not. It's not a

2344
02:16:18,800 --> 02:16:24,000
Speaker 1: simple issue. Is a neutral tool, you know. Yeah. And

2345
02:16:24,080 --> 02:16:26,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to, like, I don't want it to

2346
02:16:26,200 --> 02:16:29,280
Speaker 1: come off like I'm encouraging, you know, every person in

2347
02:16:29,400 --> 02:16:32,440
Speaker 1: block to show up with a long gun like that,

2348
02:16:33,600 --> 02:16:37,720
Speaker 1: because that would be a fucking disaster most likely. But

2349
02:16:37,959 --> 02:16:42,440
Speaker 1: also like, I don't like the idea of, you know,

2350
02:16:42,640 --> 02:16:45,280
Speaker 1: looking at a line of Proud Boys or something and

2351
02:16:45,360 --> 02:16:47,680
Speaker 1: knowing every single one of these people has a gun,

2352
02:16:48,560 --> 02:16:54,000
Speaker 1: and I do not. That's an imbalance of force that

2353
02:16:54,120 --> 02:16:57,920
Speaker 1: I don't like when things if things do escalate. No,

2354
02:16:58,160 --> 02:17:02,920
Speaker 1: that that's completely reasonable in my opinion. But yeah, I

2355
02:17:02,959 --> 02:17:05,560
Speaker 1: mean I think the big thing is just there's so

2356
02:17:05,720 --> 02:17:12,120
Speaker 1: many unknowns. Uh, you know, we've never really there's not

2357
02:17:12,280 --> 02:17:15,480
Speaker 1: much of a historical precedent for group tries to overthrow

2358
02:17:15,600 --> 02:17:20,960
Speaker 1: the government, group shows back up in d C months later,

2359
02:17:21,920 --> 02:17:26,160
Speaker 1: or elements of the same kind of ideology, and yeah,

2360
02:17:26,480 --> 02:17:29,440
Speaker 1: we just don't know. I mean even like I think

2361
02:17:29,520 --> 02:17:35,160
Speaker 1: that Unite the Right to example, is similar but also

2362
02:17:35,400 --> 02:17:39,560
Speaker 1: like markedly different enough that I don't know if it's

2363
02:17:40,320 --> 02:17:43,760
Speaker 1: an all encompassing tool for like this is what it's

2364
02:17:43,800 --> 02:17:47,320
Speaker 1: gonna look like. Yeah, is there any like specific players

2365
02:17:47,800 --> 02:17:50,440
Speaker 1: that you know is going to show up or or

2366
02:17:50,560 --> 02:17:53,080
Speaker 1: have like said that they're going to show up. So

2367
02:17:53,920 --> 02:17:58,080
Speaker 1: one that I kind of worry about is um, oh

2368
02:17:58,160 --> 02:18:01,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get fucking tweets or this God damnit. Um.

2369
02:18:02,040 --> 02:18:04,360
Speaker 1: So there's a group in Virginia that you may have

2370
02:18:04,480 --> 02:18:10,240
Speaker 1: heard of, b LM seven five seven. Yeah, I know

2371
02:18:10,400 --> 02:18:13,920
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Yeah. Uh. They are based out of

2372
02:18:14,120 --> 02:18:17,680
Speaker 1: the Virginia Beach area and they're the biggest pain in

2373
02:18:17,760 --> 02:18:22,160
Speaker 1: the ass ever um they work with. They claim to

2374
02:18:22,200 --> 02:18:26,080
Speaker 1: be a Black Lives Matter organization. The local Black Lives

2375
02:18:26,120 --> 02:18:30,160
Speaker 1: Matter organizations have denounced them. They work with Boogloo boys.

2376
02:18:30,240 --> 02:18:33,600
Speaker 1: They were very tight with Mike Dunn before he uh

2377
02:18:34,080 --> 02:18:38,800
Speaker 1: snitched and off the face of the earth. Yeah. Um,

2378
02:18:39,160 --> 02:18:43,680
Speaker 1: And then yeah, they come And I don't like the

2379
02:18:43,760 --> 02:18:45,720
Speaker 1: idea of them coming to a town that is not

2380
02:18:45,800 --> 02:18:48,400
Speaker 1: familiar with them, because like they come to Richmond, for example,

2381
02:18:49,360 --> 02:18:52,760
Speaker 1: and people are like, oh, there's b l M seven seven.

2382
02:18:53,040 --> 02:18:56,280
Speaker 1: We don't funk with them, but they come, you know,

2383
02:18:56,360 --> 02:18:58,480
Speaker 1: they come to a town or groups like this, like

2384
02:18:58,800 --> 02:19:01,440
Speaker 1: uh n f a C. The Not Not Fucking Around

2385
02:19:01,520 --> 02:19:06,039
Speaker 1: Coalition tried to come to d C. And I these

2386
02:19:06,120 --> 02:19:09,120
Speaker 1: groups that are gonna be armed, are gonna want to

2387
02:19:09,280 --> 02:19:12,600
Speaker 1: escalate and are gonna kind of try to slide in

2388
02:19:13,840 --> 02:19:19,080
Speaker 1: to like a counter demo or stick around like the

2389
02:19:19,200 --> 02:19:22,360
Speaker 1: more left leaning parts of the crowd, and then could

2390
02:19:22,600 --> 02:19:26,280
Speaker 1: very quickly escalate things. So they're one that I'm worried about.

2391
02:19:27,800 --> 02:19:35,520
Speaker 1: Some local Virginia militia movement players have been chatting about it.

2392
02:19:35,600 --> 02:19:37,360
Speaker 1: I haven't seen really that much in the way of

2393
02:19:37,440 --> 02:19:43,240
Speaker 1: like definitive statements that they're gonna go. Um, and those

2394
02:19:43,240 --> 02:19:46,600
Speaker 1: guys don't really worry me, there a bunch of nerds

2395
02:19:46,800 --> 02:19:49,240
Speaker 1: who like to play dress up in the woods mostly,

2396
02:19:50,360 --> 02:19:54,240
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's again it's just like these kind of unknowns. Yeah,

2397
02:19:54,360 --> 02:19:56,320
Speaker 1: so just like not knowing who's going to show up

2398
02:19:56,360 --> 02:19:58,920
Speaker 1: and what they're gonna do and where'll they're be and yeah,

2399
02:19:59,680 --> 02:20:04,280
Speaker 1: well yeah, like and this was a thing. Definitely. It

2400
02:20:04,400 --> 02:20:07,080
Speaker 1: reminds me a lot of the first stop, the Steel Rally,

2401
02:20:07,200 --> 02:20:12,879
Speaker 1: where we had more concrete groups saying we're gonna be there.

2402
02:20:13,360 --> 02:20:15,560
Speaker 1: There's a lot more chatter about it on social media,

2403
02:20:15,640 --> 02:20:18,040
Speaker 1: but it was still kind of like I don't know,

2404
02:20:18,320 --> 02:20:21,920
Speaker 1: like what range of the sort of right wing ideological

2405
02:20:22,000 --> 02:20:24,400
Speaker 1: spectrum will be here, Like I know, you know Q

2406
02:20:24,600 --> 02:20:26,760
Speaker 1: and on your Q and on uncle will be there.

2407
02:20:27,920 --> 02:20:33,480
Speaker 1: But like, for example, on November four, uh, Jason Kessler

2408
02:20:33,600 --> 02:20:36,400
Speaker 1: was there, the organizer of Unite the Right. I literally

2409
02:20:36,560 --> 02:20:41,520
Speaker 1: bumped into Jason Kessler, like I was walking and my

2410
02:20:41,600 --> 02:20:43,720
Speaker 1: shoulder hit him and I looked up and I was like,

2411
02:20:43,879 --> 02:20:46,760
Speaker 1: oh sorry, dude, and then I just kind of stopped

2412
02:20:46,800 --> 02:20:50,560
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, ship, I recognize you. Yeah,

2413
02:20:50,920 --> 02:20:55,320
Speaker 1: you're that famous piece of ship. Yeah. But yeah, so

2414
02:20:55,480 --> 02:20:57,320
Speaker 1: like it's kind of that same thing where we don't

2415
02:20:57,959 --> 02:21:03,000
Speaker 1: we really just don't have that much intel, and it

2416
02:21:03,080 --> 02:21:07,760
Speaker 1: seems like, you know, people with access to more streams

2417
02:21:07,800 --> 02:21:10,800
Speaker 1: of information than us, like the FEDS have been saying

2418
02:21:11,720 --> 02:21:14,680
Speaker 1: for I guess a couple of months now, like we're

2419
02:21:14,760 --> 02:21:21,560
Speaker 1: monitoring this situation where like preparing to stop another January six,

2420
02:21:21,720 --> 02:21:23,960
Speaker 1: which take it with a grain of salt. It is

2421
02:21:24,040 --> 02:21:28,960
Speaker 1: the FEDS, but also like part of me, A lot

2422
02:21:29,080 --> 02:21:32,160
Speaker 1: of the worry I get from this is people that

2423
02:21:32,879 --> 02:21:37,440
Speaker 1: I know no more than I do, reacting to it,

2424
02:21:37,600 --> 02:21:42,560
Speaker 1: like chud streamers hiring stringers, FEDS saying like announcing months

2425
02:21:42,640 --> 02:21:47,760
Speaker 1: before that it's a situation that they're preparing for a

2426
02:21:47,800 --> 02:21:49,760
Speaker 1: lot of people are very interested in what's going to happen.

2427
02:21:49,920 --> 02:21:51,920
Speaker 1: I think people are definitely preparing for a lot of

2428
02:21:52,000 --> 02:21:56,120
Speaker 1: different different outcomes, and that makes any kind of resistance

2429
02:21:56,160 --> 02:21:58,320
Speaker 1: to it hard because you don't know if you're over,

2430
02:21:58,680 --> 02:22:01,160
Speaker 1: if you're overpreparing, underprepared, ring, you don't know if you'll

2431
02:22:01,200 --> 02:22:04,120
Speaker 1: have what you'll do. Your preparations too aggressive and not

2432
02:22:04,240 --> 02:22:07,640
Speaker 1: aggressive enough, yeah, yeah, and always trying to like you know,

2433
02:22:07,840 --> 02:22:10,480
Speaker 1: feel it out. Once you're there is more scary because

2434
02:22:10,560 --> 02:22:14,039
Speaker 1: once you're there in person, a lot of communications breakdown

2435
02:22:14,120 --> 02:22:16,520
Speaker 1: between other you know other activists that that's what happened

2436
02:22:16,560 --> 02:22:18,920
Speaker 1: in like the last big rally in Portland is people

2437
02:22:18,959 --> 02:22:20,960
Speaker 1: try to know, change up plans once they got to

2438
02:22:21,000 --> 02:22:23,800
Speaker 1: the spot, and it kind of made everything a lot

2439
02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:26,080
Speaker 1: a lot more challenging because it's hard to a lot

2440
02:22:26,160 --> 02:22:27,560
Speaker 1: of a lot of people in block don't have their

2441
02:22:27,600 --> 02:22:30,000
Speaker 1: phone on them. It's just it's hard to get ride.

2442
02:22:30,000 --> 02:22:32,080
Speaker 1: It's you know, any kind of any kind of impromptu

2443
02:22:32,280 --> 02:22:34,840
Speaker 1: organizing at the site, it's always gonna be way more

2444
02:22:34,920 --> 02:22:37,200
Speaker 1: challenged than trying to figure this stuff out at home.

2445
02:22:38,200 --> 02:22:40,800
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's just kind of I don't know, it's

2446
02:22:40,840 --> 02:22:42,720
Speaker 1: it's I think I think the United the right to

2447
02:22:43,760 --> 02:22:47,000
Speaker 1: background is useful for like a big event after you know,

2448
02:22:47,280 --> 02:22:50,840
Speaker 1: a previous event that had a lot of coverage and

2449
02:22:50,879 --> 02:22:53,080
Speaker 1: had a lot of talk about it because it had,

2450
02:22:53,160 --> 02:22:56,520
Speaker 1: you know, a disastrous outcome. And then I think looking

2451
02:22:56,560 --> 02:22:59,840
Speaker 1: at you know, looking at November fourteen in December ten,

2452
02:23:00,680 --> 02:23:03,640
Speaker 1: um are also they are also kind of valuable indicators.

2453
02:23:04,320 --> 02:23:06,800
Speaker 1: Has there been any have you seen anything around the

2454
02:23:06,879 --> 02:23:10,520
Speaker 1: grapers or like any of the Fuentes crew showing up

2455
02:23:10,520 --> 02:23:12,360
Speaker 1: to this or they are they trying to just are

2456
02:23:12,400 --> 02:23:14,880
Speaker 1: they are they trying to like keep good optics. I

2457
02:23:14,959 --> 02:23:18,560
Speaker 1: guess I've as far as I've seen, they're mostly trying

2458
02:23:18,640 --> 02:23:23,039
Speaker 1: to keep good optics around us. Um they as They

2459
02:23:23,160 --> 02:23:26,640
Speaker 1: also kind of fall in through the category of like people,

2460
02:23:26,760 --> 02:23:32,879
Speaker 1: I'm not super worried about like some of them. Yeah,

2461
02:23:33,000 --> 02:23:35,800
Speaker 1: but in like a street fight situation, in a street

2462
02:23:35,879 --> 02:23:40,720
Speaker 1: fight less so I'm not worried about a groper. Yeah.

2463
02:23:40,800 --> 02:23:43,960
Speaker 1: The most violent encounter I've ever had with a groper

2464
02:23:44,240 --> 02:23:47,760
Speaker 1: was one that was probably five ft tall, following me

2465
02:23:47,879 --> 02:23:50,760
Speaker 1: around and calling me a soy boy for thirty minutes. Yeah.

2466
02:23:50,840 --> 02:23:53,160
Speaker 1: What I'm more concerned about is is Graper is kind

2467
02:23:53,200 --> 02:23:58,119
Speaker 1: of following the insal terrorism tradition of you know, skinny

2468
02:23:58,440 --> 02:24:01,320
Speaker 1: of skinny white guys get access to weapons and than

2469
02:24:01,560 --> 02:24:06,280
Speaker 1: than doing something with the gun is dangerous. Yeah. Yeah,

2470
02:24:06,600 --> 02:24:12,000
Speaker 1: and they're not going yeah, here finished what you were saying. Yeah,

2471
02:24:12,000 --> 02:24:14,640
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, you know, all all of the

2472
02:24:14,680 --> 02:24:16,480
Speaker 1: grapers I've seen, they're not going to beat me in

2473
02:24:16,480 --> 02:24:20,360
Speaker 1: a fist fight because they're all even even more not

2474
02:24:20,840 --> 02:24:23,880
Speaker 1: even more like because your fastest ship. But yeah and

2475
02:24:24,120 --> 02:24:27,520
Speaker 1: and that and that. Yeah, Yeah, I think that's kind

2476
02:24:27,520 --> 02:24:31,519
Speaker 1: of another thing that's you know, it's always a possibility

2477
02:24:31,520 --> 02:24:34,600
Speaker 1: of these things. Like I always say, like the worst

2478
02:24:34,680 --> 02:24:38,840
Speaker 1: possible outcome is someone someone starts shooting, like a firefight

2479
02:24:39,000 --> 02:24:42,120
Speaker 1: is always the worst way this could go. But with

2480
02:24:42,480 --> 02:24:49,400
Speaker 1: the sort of optics surrounding this, I I think there's

2481
02:24:49,480 --> 02:24:58,199
Speaker 1: definitely space for more extreme people, uh, specifically more accelerationist

2482
02:24:58,320 --> 02:25:02,400
Speaker 1: minded people who try to start something to try to

2483
02:25:02,480 --> 02:25:05,520
Speaker 1: cause some ship. I mean, uh, like I said, I'm

2484
02:25:05,600 --> 02:25:11,640
Speaker 1: in Virginia. I think of the Richmond gun rally in

2485
02:25:11,920 --> 02:25:17,520
Speaker 1: the lobby day in what was that twenty nineteen beginning

2486
02:25:17,520 --> 02:25:22,440
Speaker 1: of I Forget All Time is a flat circle to

2487
02:25:22,520 --> 02:25:25,640
Speaker 1: me now, But um, the members of the base that

2488
02:25:25,720 --> 02:25:29,760
Speaker 1: we're intercepted on their way to Richmond, Uh, I think

2489
02:25:29,800 --> 02:25:36,520
Speaker 1: about that situation and how other people and other groups

2490
02:25:37,160 --> 02:25:42,320
Speaker 1: that we will not talk about on pod could see

2491
02:25:42,360 --> 02:25:45,360
Speaker 1: an opportunity here. Yeah, and I think that's I think

2492
02:25:45,400 --> 02:25:48,280
Speaker 1: that's more likely happening in somewhere like DC than it

2493
02:25:48,440 --> 02:25:50,440
Speaker 1: is in Portland's right, because in Portland we have a

2494
02:25:50,480 --> 02:25:54,520
Speaker 1: pretty good grip on who shows up and why they

2495
02:25:54,600 --> 02:26:00,280
Speaker 1: show up. The East Coast, the south um northeast, south East,

2496
02:26:00,600 --> 02:26:04,040
Speaker 1: they have a lot more groups with interest with you know,

2497
02:26:04,160 --> 02:26:08,120
Speaker 1: obscure ideologies that are more think more prone to those

2498
02:26:08,200 --> 02:26:11,640
Speaker 1: types of to those types of like, um, more insurgent attacks.

2499
02:26:11,720 --> 02:26:14,520
Speaker 1: And I think people are on the West coast. Yeah,

2500
02:26:14,680 --> 02:26:17,720
Speaker 1: And I think another thing that kind of amplifies that is,

2501
02:26:18,560 --> 02:26:23,160
Speaker 1: like you said, like Portland has kind of an established

2502
02:26:23,280 --> 02:26:31,120
Speaker 1: infrastructure of chud fuckery, you know. I mean, I'm on

2503
02:26:31,200 --> 02:26:33,280
Speaker 1: the other side of the country, and I know the

2504
02:26:33,440 --> 02:26:39,680
Speaker 1: familiar faces of Portland's bullshit, and we we do have

2505
02:26:39,800 --> 02:26:43,760
Speaker 1: that to an extent. But d C brings people from

2506
02:26:43,840 --> 02:26:47,600
Speaker 1: all across the country. I was meeting people on the

2507
02:26:47,680 --> 02:26:53,920
Speaker 1: metro from everywhere from Tennessee to Kansas to California. And

2508
02:26:54,120 --> 02:26:57,600
Speaker 1: when people are coming in from such a broad range

2509
02:26:57,640 --> 02:27:03,600
Speaker 1: of places, there's a lot more uncertainty. Yeah, well, I'm

2510
02:27:03,640 --> 02:27:06,200
Speaker 1: not sure and anything else you want to mention about

2511
02:27:06,280 --> 02:27:08,560
Speaker 1: kind of what you expect at this rally and any

2512
02:27:08,560 --> 02:27:10,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, general advice has since you've been at

2513
02:27:10,840 --> 02:27:14,640
Speaker 1: the past three versions. Yeah, so, I mean, if you're

2514
02:27:15,000 --> 02:27:19,199
Speaker 1: in the DC area or you're nearby, and you're comfortable

2515
02:27:19,280 --> 02:27:24,760
Speaker 1: with it and physically able to do so, I show up. Um.

2516
02:27:25,920 --> 02:27:29,000
Speaker 1: The one thing that we do know for sure about

2517
02:27:29,080 --> 02:27:33,800
Speaker 1: these events is that the more bodies we have, the

2518
02:27:34,040 --> 02:27:37,720
Speaker 1: less likely it is for people to be able to

2519
02:27:37,840 --> 02:27:43,360
Speaker 1: pray on someone walking home from work or houseless person

2520
02:27:43,560 --> 02:27:47,920
Speaker 1: just trying to sleep. Yeah, the more bodies that we have,

2521
02:27:48,120 --> 02:27:53,480
Speaker 1: the better it is. Um, if you are either unable

2522
02:27:53,520 --> 02:27:57,600
Speaker 1: to come or you don't feel comfortable coming, I know

2523
02:27:57,800 --> 02:28:02,480
Speaker 1: that there will be jail support, mutual aid efforts UH

2524
02:28:02,879 --> 02:28:06,080
Speaker 1: and Garrison. I can send you to some links to

2525
02:28:06,280 --> 02:28:10,400
Speaker 1: local d C orgs. If you want to throw it

2526
02:28:10,440 --> 02:28:15,600
Speaker 1: in the show notes, sure, um, but yeah, just and

2527
02:28:15,720 --> 02:28:20,800
Speaker 1: if you're gonna go, be prepared, have have a buddy, UH,

2528
02:28:21,320 --> 02:28:25,960
Speaker 1: lock up, bring UH, bringing I fac and get ready

2529
02:28:26,040 --> 02:28:29,200
Speaker 1: to party. Yeah. I think that's one of the things

2530
02:28:29,280 --> 02:28:32,320
Speaker 1: you mentioned is like more numbers helps in the case

2531
02:28:32,440 --> 02:28:36,160
Speaker 1: of it's less likely they'll be like roaming attacks, because

2532
02:28:36,160 --> 02:28:38,080
Speaker 1: that's what we've seen at a lot of these rallies

2533
02:28:38,200 --> 02:28:41,760
Speaker 1: is that sometimes they don't ever like actually cause trouble

2534
02:28:42,040 --> 02:28:44,640
Speaker 1: at where people are, you know, like where the where

2535
02:28:44,680 --> 02:28:47,119
Speaker 1: the people are. They wait until people are walking away

2536
02:28:47,240 --> 02:28:49,400
Speaker 1: or going back to their car, or if there's no

2537
02:28:49,440 --> 02:28:51,680
Speaker 1: one like that, they just find some random person on

2538
02:28:51,720 --> 02:28:53,200
Speaker 1: the street. You know. We saw a lot of that

2539
02:28:53,280 --> 02:28:56,360
Speaker 1: in d C of of Proud Boys just finding kind

2540
02:28:56,400 --> 02:28:58,760
Speaker 1: of people in the area that they thought looked like

2541
02:28:58,840 --> 02:29:02,000
Speaker 1: Antifa quote unquot out and then just attacking them. Um.

2542
02:29:02,520 --> 02:29:06,320
Speaker 1: So you know, the less scattered people are, um, the

2543
02:29:06,440 --> 02:29:10,520
Speaker 1: less likely to get kind of those roaming attacks. Yeah,

2544
02:29:10,680 --> 02:29:13,040
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, it's it's always hard to speculate

2545
02:29:13,080 --> 02:29:14,920
Speaker 1: on the event, on an event that hasn't happened yet.

2546
02:29:15,080 --> 02:29:17,720
Speaker 1: But um, I believe by the time, by the time

2547
02:29:17,800 --> 02:29:21,840
Speaker 1: they see airs, it will be happening tomorrow. So as Saturday,

2548
02:29:22,520 --> 02:29:25,240
Speaker 1: THEO do you want to plug anything? Yeah, you can

2549
02:29:25,400 --> 02:29:29,360
Speaker 1: find me on Twitter, um at THEO Hansen THEO with

2550
02:29:29,440 --> 02:29:35,360
Speaker 1: a zero. Uh. Listen to my podcast Terrorism Bad. We

2551
02:29:36,320 --> 02:29:40,480
Speaker 1: look through portrayals of terrorism and extremism in popular media.

2552
02:29:41,120 --> 02:29:43,520
Speaker 1: See how it holds up to the real world. Um.

2553
02:29:44,879 --> 02:29:47,600
Speaker 1: Trying to think of anything else. I'll be there on Saturday.

2554
02:29:47,640 --> 02:29:51,080
Speaker 1: I'll be live tweeting the event. I'm not live tweeting

2555
02:29:52,200 --> 02:29:56,800
Speaker 1: that dead or otherwise incapacitated or I don't have cell service.

2556
02:29:57,840 --> 02:30:01,320
Speaker 1: Service is always horrible at these things. Oh it's awesome. Yeah,

2557
02:30:01,400 --> 02:30:05,520
Speaker 1: it's a constant problem. Yeah. They were blocking signals on

2558
02:30:05,680 --> 02:30:08,119
Speaker 1: January six on the Capitol lawn and when I stepped off,

2559
02:30:08,200 --> 02:30:11,040
Speaker 1: I had like thirteen texts from all my friends that

2560
02:30:11,120 --> 02:30:14,760
Speaker 1: were like, hey, text me if you're still alive. It's

2561
02:30:14,800 --> 02:30:17,760
Speaker 1: really hard to tell what's going on, you know, when

2562
02:30:17,800 --> 02:30:19,480
Speaker 1: you're when you're like whether or not it's like a

2563
02:30:19,560 --> 02:30:21,960
Speaker 1: cell signal problem, or if it's somebody like targeting you

2564
02:30:22,040 --> 02:30:27,600
Speaker 1: in particular, it's frustrating. Yeah, all right, well, thank you, Cel,

2565
02:30:27,840 --> 02:30:33,280
Speaker 1: thank you for giving us the rundown on Saturday's activities. Um,

2566
02:30:33,440 --> 02:30:36,119
Speaker 1: I hope you don't get shot. Thank you. I hope

2567
02:30:36,120 --> 02:30:39,160
Speaker 1: I do not as well. That's my general feeling towards

2568
02:30:39,200 --> 02:30:42,640
Speaker 1: anyone who shows up on uh, you know, on the

2569
02:30:42,760 --> 02:30:45,440
Speaker 1: eighteenth in d C. I hope you don't get shot.

2570
02:30:46,400 --> 02:30:48,800
Speaker 1: Do your best. Yeah, and if you do get shot,

2571
02:30:49,280 --> 02:30:51,640
Speaker 1: you know what to do about it? Well? Yeah, I

2572
02:30:51,680 --> 02:30:56,040
Speaker 1: have a have a care a minute, you know, have

2573
02:30:56,240 --> 02:30:59,360
Speaker 1: some cell locks. Yeah, that's ideal, but not getting shot

2574
02:30:59,520 --> 02:31:03,520
Speaker 1: is better. So you cannot remember what try not to

2575
02:31:03,600 --> 02:31:06,680
Speaker 1: get shot? All right, Thanks for having me on guys.

2576
02:31:07,560 --> 02:31:10,480
Speaker 1: Nice to meet you, Robert and Sophie. Thanks to meet you.

2577
02:31:11,560 --> 02:31:14,760
Speaker 1: You can follow us that Happened here pod on Twitter,

2578
02:31:14,800 --> 02:31:16,840
Speaker 1: Instagram and at cool Zone Media for all the things.

2579
02:31:16,879 --> 02:31:23,920
Speaker 1: And we'll be back on Monday. Hey, we'll be back Monday,

2580
02:31:24,080 --> 02:31:27,000
Speaker 1: with more episodes every week from now until the heat

2581
02:31:27,040 --> 02:31:29,400
Speaker 1: death of the universe. It Could Happen Here is a

2582
02:31:29,440 --> 02:31:32,320
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool

2583
02:31:32,360 --> 02:31:34,959
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

2584
02:31:35,160 --> 02:31:36,879
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

2585
02:31:36,920 --> 02:31:40,240
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

2586
02:31:40,280 --> 02:31:42,959
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

2587
02:31:43,000 --> 02:31:46,240
Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.