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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this spinoff episode of

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Speaker 1: Dirt Ailly Zai Geis. What's On is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: This one we're calling the iconographs. Instead of looking at

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Speaker 1: the Zeitgeys through the current events on Monday mornings, we're

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Speaker 1: looking at the Zeikeeys through the powerful pop culture hork truxes.

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Speaker 2: That are our icons.

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Speaker 1: Uh. We use these figures, these characters, to create meaning,

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Speaker 1: to build identity, to learn what a double album is.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize this was that that was the first

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Speaker 2: rap double album. How to picture.

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Speaker 1: Someone rolling is something we learn, and we learned that

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Speaker 1: while it is objectively stupid and hilarious that some people

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Speaker 1: think Elvis is still alive, some icons really do fake

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Speaker 1: their own deaths and leave behind a trail of clues

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Speaker 1: for reasons that are unclear.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Today we're talking about Tupac Shakor, probably the icon that

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Speaker 1: meant the most to me of anyone we've covered so far,

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Speaker 1: with the obvious exception of Arkle. I'm thrilled to be

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Speaker 1: joined as always by my co host, mister Miles Gret.

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Speaker 2: Great to be.

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Speaker 3: Here, great to be here, great to talk about somebody.

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Speaker 3: Also very very important to my life and my love

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Speaker 3: of hip hop.

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Speaker 2: For sure, for sure, for sure.

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Speaker 1: And in our third seat at resident California, La Valley historian,

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Speaker 1: the creator of Heidi World and Jenna World, it's mom Lamb.

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Speaker 2: Was that up?

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Speaker 4: Bring it, bring it, don't sing it? Sing it?

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Speaker 2: There you go?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly why did this guy like the West Side

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Speaker 1: of La so much? He just really loved like Westwood,

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Speaker 1: Santa Monica, Venice Wood.

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Speaker 2: Is that what he was talking about?

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Speaker 3: Uh, Saint Martin of Tours School, Yes, all of this,

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Speaker 3: all of the.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the part of the episode usually where

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Speaker 1: up top we're like, Okay, here are the things that

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Speaker 1: make this person like a bona fide icon, Like they

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Speaker 1: appear on a lot of dorm room walls or T

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Speaker 1: shirts or I don't think we need to do that

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Speaker 1: with Tupac. It's just everything, you know, everything about him

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Speaker 1: is iconic. I do want to just like kind of

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Speaker 1: get into two of the central they're almost like optical

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Speaker 1: illusions about his life in the documentary Did you guys

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Speaker 1: watch Dear Mama, The documentary by the very Hughes brother

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Speaker 1: whose ass Tupac kicked when his role a menaced to

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Speaker 1: society fell apart.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I didn't see that one, okay, But.

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Speaker 1: One of his friends in that documentary says that Tupac

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Speaker 1: lived like three full lives every eight months, basically, and

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Speaker 1: that's why his life feels so long, and it is

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Speaker 1: like the central illusion of his life, like he did

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Speaker 1: so much stuff in such a short time, recorded so much,

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Speaker 1: got into so much trouble, we filmed so many movies.

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Speaker 1: There are these moments in this research where it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he like came from this concert that has like

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Speaker 1: a famous bootleg recording of one of his songs, goes out,

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Speaker 1: shoots two off duty cops, goes up to his hotel room,

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Speaker 1: throws a party, and like debuts Dear Mama to his friend.

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Speaker 2: And it's only like a two hour span. It's just

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Speaker 2: like a fuck, Yeah, he had a lot.

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Speaker 4: Yes, look, we all have twenty four hours each day.

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Speaker 2: He exactly.

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Speaker 1: He does have the thing that I've noticed a lot

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Speaker 1: of our icons have, which is that I think he

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Speaker 1: needs less sleep, Like he's everybody's like he he's up

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Speaker 1: way later than us, and we wake up and he's

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Speaker 1: been up for two hours, like smoking blunts and like

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Speaker 1: filling notebooks, like he's just got an insane motor.

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Speaker 4: Miles Gray channeling the spirit today.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly me prolific with podcasting. Even when I die,

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Speaker 3: there will be podcast episodes. They will onner Oh my god.

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Speaker 4: Well double podcast album, I'll say.

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Speaker 1: The other optical illusion from this research is that he

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Speaker 1: appears to be different people in different moments. Like there's

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Speaker 1: interviews from early in his life where he just seems

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Speaker 1: like a very sensitive theater kid. There's interview where he's

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Speaker 1: in jail or like spending a lot of time with

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Speaker 1: the Black Panthers, and he's like very sober and focused

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Speaker 1: and seems almost like a consciousness rapper. And then there

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Speaker 1: are the times when he's the guy from his most

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Speaker 1: popular songs and like, I just think that's like what

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Speaker 1: he has, this insane motor that won't quit. And then

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Speaker 1: he seems to absorb whatever energy is around him and

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Speaker 1: just be the most like a lot of his friends are, like,

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Speaker 1: he will just take whatever is going on around him

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Speaker 1: and become like the most charismatic, impelling version of that

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Speaker 1: thing that he's channeling, and those seem to be some

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Speaker 1: of his superpowers. But there's again he just packs in

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Speaker 1: so much like other people talk about seizing the day,

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Speaker 1: and by the time they've finished that sentence, Tupac has

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Speaker 1: fucked Madonna, shot two off duty cops, and written an album.

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Speaker 1: It's just so crazy how much he did. But I

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Speaker 1: will also say it, I want to just like put

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Speaker 1: these two questions to you guys. One, he does seem

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Speaker 1: to be the one person, after like going through this

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Speaker 1: research whose fame was not well served by dying young.

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Speaker 1: Like most people, it's like, well, the attention for dying young,

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Speaker 1: the romance of like dying young, outweighs what they would

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Speaker 1: have gone on to do or at least like it could.

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Speaker 1: But with him, I'm like absolutely convinced he would have

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Speaker 1: gotten bigger and more important if he had been allowed

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Speaker 1: to live an Oscar. Yeah, I think he would have.

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Speaker 1: He got it, like he is fucking.

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Speaker 3: So prize too, Yeah, like because he was so idiotly

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Speaker 3: he was focused towards the end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Politically he was ahead of his time, and then

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Speaker 1: like artistically he was just you know, burning so fast

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Speaker 1: and bright and uh just every everything he put himself too.

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Speaker 1: He was really good at it. It's not like a

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Speaker 1: simple what if where I mean, there are like some

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Speaker 1: aspects of his death where it's like really bad luck,

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Speaker 1: like the killer just happening to like find them stopped

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Speaker 1: at that red light is like kind of like the

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Speaker 1: Franz Ferdinand thing, where like Franz Ferdinand's car just happened

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Speaker 1: to break down right in front of a guy who

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Speaker 1: had been like looking to assassinate him all day. The

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Speaker 1: guy had like given up on finded. Yeah, the guy

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Speaker 1: Gabriel Prinzip was trying to assassinate him all day, gave

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Speaker 1: up because he couldn't like find him. Was ordering a

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Speaker 1: sandwich and Franz Ferdinand pulled up and his car broke

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Speaker 1: down outside of the sandwich shops that he was at,

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Speaker 1: and so he just like turned around, and that like

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Speaker 1: kind of happened in the sense that like the people

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Speaker 1: who killed him like happened to be able to like

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Speaker 1: pull up right next to him.

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Speaker 4: Jack, do you think this is Franz Ferdinand icons I'm

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Speaker 4: saying this is a touchstone everybody knows. But he also

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Speaker 4: just lived like he had the invincibility star of Mario

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Speaker 4: Tupac did, like towards towards the end of his life.

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Speaker 4: Like it was so it's it's like if he hadn't

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Speaker 4: died in the Vegas shooting. Who knows what would have

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Speaker 4: happened the next day.

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Speaker 1: But I do think had he continued to live and

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Speaker 1: create and like what were he working today, I think

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Speaker 1: he would have done incredible things, both politically and artistically. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's the one reason that I don't believe he's

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Speaker 1: still alive is because he would have made too much shit,

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Speaker 1: Like you couldn't. You couldn't, like he had no off button.

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Speaker 1: That was another kind of hypothetical I wanted to pose

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Speaker 1: up top. Is why I like Tupac and Elvis get

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Speaker 1: the no they're definitely not dead thing from the zeitgeist,

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Speaker 1: whereas like Biggie doesn't get it. Other I don't know who.

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Speaker 4: The Yeah, what if Biggie's alive? Come on, guys, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'll be so fucked up.

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Speaker 3: Christopher Wallace is out there, He's like, man, I'm actually

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Speaker 3: out here.

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Speaker 2: He abody cares. They just think I'm jamazing guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think with Elvis is more curious to

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Speaker 3: me because, like with Tupac, he was only twenty five

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Speaker 3: and you're like, okay, what else is coming out of

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Speaker 3: this person? Like it seems like you are just getting started,

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Speaker 3: even though this beginning part of your career was already

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Speaker 3: so legendary, and I think there's at least for me,

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Speaker 3: it was like, there's so much unfinished business. I was

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Speaker 3: so in on Tupac being alive because I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 3: there's no way. Guy, like in my mind, like twenty

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Speaker 3: five and you're dead.

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Speaker 2: No, dude, you're.

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Speaker 1: Many songs are like predicting his own death or being

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Speaker 1: like you can't kill me. And then he released an

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Speaker 1: album called Macavelly posthumously, where like Macavelli had talked about

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Speaker 1: or written about faking your own death, and everybody figured

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Speaker 1: out that Macavelli is an anagram for m alive k.

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Speaker 2: So for some reason, he hit the truth.

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Speaker 1: He hid the truth in a clue where he talks

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Speaker 1: like mister mackew from South Barky am alive.

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Speaker 3: Dude, Elvis Presley, Presley lives, Thank you, dude.

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Speaker 2: You see it's all right there.

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Speaker 3: But that's the thing with like Elvis, I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 3: this guy was so like unhealthy. Towards the end, it

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Speaker 3: makes sense, that's right, I asked away, so, but I

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Speaker 3: guess I'm sure for people of that generation they also

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Speaker 3: felt like there's still so much more that I want

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Speaker 3: from you.

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Speaker 4: Well Jesus energy as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, like the like a spiritual connection to their

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Speaker 1: fans where their fans like, it's clearly more than that wearing.

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Speaker 4: They both wear leather.

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Speaker 1: They both wear leather. But like I mean, there is

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Speaker 1: like a weird similarity to black music. They both very

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Speaker 1: influenced by black music.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait to this section we talk about how

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Speaker 3: much Tupac stole from black artists.

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Speaker 1: I know, oh man, it's not good, guys, not good.

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Speaker 1: They both also had movie crew. I mean, Elvis's movie

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Speaker 1: career was just basically like stand here Elvis and then

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Speaker 1: sing this song of the some of them are good,

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Speaker 1: like actually had a movie crew.

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Speaker 4: Elvis also could have been a good actor if the

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Speaker 4: Colonel hadn't ye done what he did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, mismanaged careers at least with Tupac towards the

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Speaker 1: end when Shug was his manager.

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Speaker 4: We're not saying anything bad about Shug Knight here, guys,

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Speaker 4: he's got nope, they got podcasts in prison.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, he's coming out and he's a genius,

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Speaker 1: and yeah he's nothing wrong and nothing wrong. I did

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Speaker 1: realize that he's basically believed that he arranged the killing

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Speaker 1: of Biggie.

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Speaker 4: Well, guys, I was going to watch some TUPAC documentaries,

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Speaker 4: but then I ended up only watching one TUPAC documentary

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Speaker 4: called Murder Rap Oh Yeah on two b A, which

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Speaker 4: I recommend because it is this cop, this LAPD cop.

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Speaker 4: Basically it was like the retired right well, it was

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Speaker 4: like the one guy Russell Poole. This one cop claimed

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Speaker 4: to have solved the case and put forward this theory

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Speaker 4: that was kind of everybody said was definitely false. That.

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Speaker 4: But then they were like, case closed, and that's the

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Speaker 4: theory that's in Biggie and Tupac, the Nick Groomfield doc

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Speaker 4: and he wrote this book Labyrinth with the La Labyrinth.

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Speaker 2: Hell yeah, dude.

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Speaker 4: And then this other cop reopened the case because he

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Speaker 4: was like, that's not that wasn't it. This one guy

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Speaker 4: they said did it was like a real turt in

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Speaker 4: San Diego who clearly had nothing to do with it

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Speaker 4: and had been cleared. And so this other cop reopened

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Speaker 4: the case, basically solved the case. Yeah, and then brought

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Speaker 4: you know, brought his results to the LPD and the

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Speaker 4: LPD was like, okay, great, you're off the case case closed.

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Speaker 2: Mm hm you know, we don't want to solve this

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Speaker 2: right well, yeah, and.

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Speaker 4: This cop was also he was like very you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to exonerate the LAPD in the case because

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Speaker 4: they had been, you know, rumored to be involved. There

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Speaker 4: were a lot of RIPD officers maybe working as a.

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Speaker 2: Big pry sued the LAPD for involvement in that.

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Speaker 4: That's what. That's what. Like the LAPD were like, we

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Speaker 4: we want just enough information so that we don't have

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Speaker 4: to pay off the lawsuit. But then we're closing the

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Speaker 4: case and no one's ever gonna get yeah, get arrested

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Speaker 4: or anything, even though we know who did it.

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Speaker 3: Right, yes we call that justice and yes, yes we

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Speaker 3: don't do this here. Oh we know who did it.

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Speaker 4: But the doc is crazy because it's just this one

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Speaker 4: copying like I figured it out and nobody cares.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, So we'll get to that. I'm interested

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Speaker 1: to hear more about that. I think I think it's

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Speaker 1: the one that I read up on to the theory

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Speaker 1: that I read up on. Butt's let's get into the beginning.

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Speaker 1: We're going to start with Tupac's mom, A Fenni Shakur,

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Speaker 1: prominent member of the Black Panther Parties Harlem Chapter, and

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine she was arrested in the famous

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Speaker 1: Panther twenty one case, in which twenty one twenty one

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Speaker 1: twenty one Black Panther Party members were charged with conspiring

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Speaker 1: the bomb buildings in New York City. The police and

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Speaker 1: FBI used a tactic we saw after nine to eleven

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Speaker 1: where they, you know, infiltrated them with undercover operatives who

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Speaker 1: would suggest doing crazy shit and then use those suggestions,

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Speaker 1: like from the undercover cops to like build a case.

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Speaker 1: One of the undercover cops had also infiltrated Malcolm X's

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Speaker 1: inner circle. When Malcolm X was shot, the person who's

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Speaker 1: giving him CPR and mouth to mouth is this guy

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Speaker 1: who was actually an undercover cop who also worked and

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Speaker 1: like helped them build the case against the Panther twenty one.

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Speaker 2: Where's that? How's that guy doing? He must know?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great.

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Speaker 1: They didn't know it at the time, but they were

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Speaker 1: being targeted by co intel pro which is basically the

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Speaker 1: full might of the US government intelligence community. You know,

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Speaker 1: the same US intelligence that like spent the twentieth century

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Speaker 1: toppling entire nations was being turned on the Black Panther Party.

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Speaker 1: The only reason we know about it now is that

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Speaker 1: a group of radicals like literally broke into an FBI

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Speaker 1: office and like found a cash of documents revealing that

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Speaker 1: there was this massive intelligence operation that was targeting them.

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Speaker 1: But her court case was ongoing. When she learned she

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Speaker 1: was pregnant with Tupac, she represented herself had like this

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Speaker 1: heroic moment at the trial where she cross examined one

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Speaker 1: of the undercover cops and she's like, so, when you

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Speaker 1: were sleeping with women in the Black Panther Party, were

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Speaker 1: you a copper a panther? And when you would like

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Speaker 1: stand up in the meetings wild eyed saying let's go

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Speaker 1: kill someone?

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Speaker 2: Were you a copper a panther?

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Speaker 4: Then?

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Speaker 1: And then and then like she was also like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so did you ever see me carry a gun?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: Did you ever see me deal drugs? Do you ever

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Speaker 1: see me like plan a bomb or work with bombs? No?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 1: Did you ever see me like advocate on behalf of

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Speaker 1: the sick, work a food bank, like all these things

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Speaker 1: that they were doing, And like got this under cover

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Speaker 1: cop who was also like furious, you know, was probably

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Speaker 1: like going through some internal struggle at the time, was

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Speaker 1: probably doing a lot of like the end of the

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Speaker 1: Jinx burping at the like up on the stage. They said,

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Speaker 1: he was like so angry that he was like fucking

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Speaker 1: spitting like as he spoke, but like basically like backed

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Speaker 1: him into a corner. Just the courage of this moment

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Speaker 1: for she represented herself despite the fact that like other

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Speaker 1: members of the party were like this, this is a

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Speaker 1: bad idea. Also, this is like right after her her

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Speaker 1: trial starts, right after the FBI like murders Fred Hampton,

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Speaker 1: Like there's it's at the height of them being targeted

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Speaker 1: and just horrific shit happening to the Black Panther parties,

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Speaker 1: she represents herself. She does an amazing job. They also

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Speaker 1: note that, like the CoP's case is just wildly full

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Speaker 1: of shit. They used like their members of the Black

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Speaker 1: Panther Party at the time, who were like I would

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Speaker 1: say dynamite like as a like saying cool, like that's

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Speaker 1: a that's a cool thing, which was a slang that

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Speaker 1: we used at the time. They would be like they're

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Speaker 1: planning dynamite. They also had they had a slang for

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Speaker 1: weed called brother Rugi, and the FBI had Brother Rugi

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Speaker 1: as a co conspirator in the case.

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Speaker 2: They also like, did they have Jimmy Walker on charge?

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Speaker 2: I don't mind.

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Speaker 1: I just used that phrase to mean things are cool,

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Speaker 1: things are all right. But yeah, they were doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of work, like if any was like really a

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Speaker 1: strong proponent, Like behind the first patient Bill of Rights

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Speaker 1: there a kid had gone to a local hospital with

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Speaker 1: sickle cell and they turned him away and we're like, here,

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Speaker 1: take some aspirin, You're probably fine, And she just took

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Speaker 1: the kid back to the hospital and was like, we're

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Speaker 1: not leaving here until you deliver healthcare.

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Speaker 2: And then like stayed.

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Speaker 1: Got to know the doctors worked with them to create

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Speaker 1: this patient Bill of Rights until there was like a

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Speaker 1: healthcare system that wouldn't require an advocate for every single

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Speaker 1: black patient to be treated like a human. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: just like a lot of the progressive shit that like

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Speaker 1: she all are still looking for and talking about, She's

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Speaker 1: just incredible. She's like really amazing. Tupac is born June sixteenth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, less than a month after a Fanny

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Speaker 1: and her co defendants are acquitted of all one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty six charges, so she successfully defends them it's

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Speaker 1: this huge news story everybody's celebrating, and less than a

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Speaker 1: month later, Tupac is born. She names him Tupac Amarusha Kor.

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Speaker 1: According to her, the nickname was in honor of the

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Speaker 1: last Inca chief to be torture, brutalized and murdered by

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Speaker 1: Spanish conquistadors. And she said she wanted him to know

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Speaker 1: that African Americans aren't the first people this has happened too,

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Speaker 1: so like giving some like broad historical.

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Speaker 3: Because his real name was like Masani, right and then

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00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,199
Speaker 3: it changed it after Karishlsane Crooks is his name on

343
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 3: his birth certificate, right, right, right, but he's immediately.

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Speaker 2: Like Tupac Amarusha Kor right.

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Speaker 1: And in nineteen seventy five, she marries Matulushakur, who's a

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Speaker 1: prominent black liberation activist with a degree an acupuncturer who

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Speaker 1: provided holistic health care to the local black community and

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Speaker 1: eventually is one of the FBI's ten most wanted for

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Speaker 1: his potential involvement in a robbery in which two police

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Speaker 1: officers and a guard were killed. But everything around this

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Speaker 1: time is really hard to know what actually happened because

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00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 1: of co intel pro.

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Speaker 3: His levy accusations against anyone that were like, dude, I

354
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Speaker 3: hate this acupuncturist, Yes, exactly from him for some shit.

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Speaker 1: But so Tupac grows up like having FBI agents come

356
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Speaker 1: to his middle school lunch room to ask if he'd

357
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Speaker 1: seen his mom's husband, you know, because he's like a

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Speaker 1: ten most wanted person, and then a lot of people

359
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Speaker 1: who are His godfather was elmer Geronimo Pratt, who spent

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Speaker 1: twenty seven years in prison for the robbery and murder

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Speaker 1: of a teacher in nineteen ninety one. It was ruled

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Speaker 1: that the DA's office and LAPD withheld evidence denying him

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Speaker 1: of a fair trial. So yeah, co intel pro's all

364
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: over the place. It's like impossible to tell what wastually happening.

365
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: But a lot of the people who are convicted of

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Speaker 1: various crimes at this time for being part of the

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00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:10,239
Speaker 1: Black Panther Party were later acquitted, but they were just

368
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: set up and assassinated ceaselessly. So Tupac is growing up.

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Speaker 1: He's writing poetry, He's there's a lot of stuff like

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Speaker 1: later in his rhymes where he just like talks about

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Speaker 1: being like having a really like unhappy childhood and like

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Speaker 1: being really like everybody around him is like he's a

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Speaker 1: ray of sunshine. But he talks about just like not

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Speaker 1: really being able to cope and like being extremely unhappy

375
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: and being in hell, like inside his own head when

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Speaker 1: he's a when he's a child, after his mom successfully

377
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 1: defends herself, there's like a lot of money from well

378
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: wishers and like people are like putting the family up.

379
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 1: But then the eighties happens and suddenly the political tides

380
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: turned and they fall into poverty. And he estimates that

381
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: he like moved eighteen times by the time he got

382
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: to middle school. Around high school, they moved to Baltimore.

383
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: He transfers to Baltimore School for the Arts and described

384
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 1: it as heaven. I learned ballet, poetry, jazz, music, everything, Shakespeare, acting, everything,

385
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Speaker 1: as well as academics. He played the mouse King and

386
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: the Nutcracker, and once when he was being interrogated mouse.

387
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 4: King, Yeah, that's amazing.

388
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

389
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: Once when he was interrogated by the police in a deposition,

390
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: they asked if he was gang affiliated, and he was like,

391
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Speaker 1: I'm the head of the mouse gang and the Nutcracker

392
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 1: and basically was like, I'm a I'm a theater kid man,

393
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Speaker 1: like essentially, Yeah.

394
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Speaker 4: The mouse King runs run some shit. Yeah.

395
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's interesting to get because Baltimore too

396
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 3: is kind of a real early formative experience from like

397
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 3: his writing about it too, and like the schools that

398
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 3: he went to. I think that's when a lot obviously

399
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 3: through his upbringing and his parents, like he learned a

400
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 3: lot about the racial disparity. But in Baltimore it was

401
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 3: very clear there were like two Baltimore's that you could

402
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 3: live in White Baltimore or Black Baltimore.

403
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's like it's.

404
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 3: Funny because every with his music, like he contains all

405
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 3: these multitudes, but you can track all of these experiences

406
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 3: along his way. They're like, yep, he's authentically understanding all

407
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 3: of these experiences that allow him to sort of express

408
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 3: all that yeah in his lyrics.

409
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like the movie Hairspray.

410
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just going to say that his life's

411
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: a lot like the movie Hairspray.

412
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: I can't wait for Nicky Blonski to play him in.

413
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: The one scene from his childhood that he's talked about

414
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: a couple of times is he used to sit outside

415
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: by the street lights and read the autobiography of Malcolm

416
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: X because they didn't have lights inside their house and

417
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: that his mom always raised him to think that he

418
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 1: was the Black Prince of the Revolution. At the Baltimore

419
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: School for the Performing Arts, he befriended a classmate named

420
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: Jada Pinkett. She's said, like, when she talks about their relationship,

421
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: I feel bad for Will Smith. Yeah, it's like it's

422
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: like someone being like that was my real, my true love.

423
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 4: She loves to do that to Will Smith for some reason.

424
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: And he must be into it too.

425
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 3: Will Smith, though she's been pretty consistent about how she

426
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 3: talks about it because she's like he was.

427
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: Like a brother.

428
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the friendship we had, it's unlike anything

429
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 3: you could ever experience, something you only get once in

430
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 3: a life.

431
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: Whenever I read those, I'm like, I think some relationships

432
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: you just can't really give a hit too.

433
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 4: He encompasses so much an incredible rapper.

434
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, it's so funny just to be like,

435
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: put and Will Smith on a just next to each

436
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:01,719
Speaker 3: other as rappers.

437
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, who if he does live, whose career

438
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: is like doesn't exist in the same way.

439
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 2: I don't know. I wonder if they would have just

440
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: had beef over Jada.

441
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe, and then Will would have been absolutely ethered

442
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 3: in a rap battle if.

443
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: It went there, because then Will Smith would have been like,

444
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: h you want me to get me and You're like, buddy, buddy, buddy, buddy, buddy,

445
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: you're a guy. You should have gone to MIT and

446
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 2: been an engineer.

447
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: He moves to California in nineteen eighty eight, does not

448
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: immediately click with the California scene despite all this West

449
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: Side business. He says, I was the outsider. I dressed

450
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: like a hippie. They teased me all the time. His friend,

451
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: it's kind of cute, like he had this friend at

452
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,959
Speaker 1: the Performing Art School in Baltimore who is just this

453
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: like nerdy white dude who like made all his clothes

454
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: for him. Like he was like made like weird kind

455
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: of like handmade clothes for Tupac, and Tupac like was

456
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, like jeans with like little designs and

457
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: stuff on it. And then he like comes out to

458
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: California wearing that ship.

459
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: Now, I was like.

460
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 3: Yo, especially in the eighties because he went but he

461
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 3: was in Mill Valley right when he met to.

462
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 4: So you can wear jeans with little designs in norcl yeah, yeah,

463
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 4: Mill Valley, you know, on their jeans and.

464
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, so at first he he does eventually go to

465
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: a performing arts school in uh NorCal but he said

466
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: that when he first came out, I was the outsider.

467
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: I dressed like a hippie. They teased me all the time.

468
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: I couldn't play basketball. I didn't know who basketball players were.

469
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: I was the triumph for the street gangs. They used

470
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: to jump me things like that. I thought I was

471
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: weird because I was writing the poetry and I hate

472
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: it myself again, Like that really seems to be a

473
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: lot of his childhood is like he's very uncomfortable in

474
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: his own skin. I used to keep it a secret.

475
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: I was really a nerd.

476
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 3: This man if he was alive and still saying this

477
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 3: would be so important for like young black kids. You

478
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 3: care about that, Yeah, like him truly be like I

479
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 3: didn't know who athletes were. I was so in the

480
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 3: arts and like philosophy and things like that. I fit

481
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 3: in Yet here I am.

482
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: So he starts rapping.

483
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: He does like kind of a lot of his early

484
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: stuff is like he'll talk about the violence cit he's

485
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,479
Speaker 1: witnessing around him, but there will still be like he

486
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: has An early song is called get the Gauge, but

487
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 1: he writes a disclaimer at the top composer's note, in

488
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: no way is this song meant to stir up violence.

489
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: So he's like still. You know.

490
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: This is when he goes to this performing art school

491
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: in northern California where there there's this like really long

492
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: interview with him at this time where he just like

493
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: seems like a totally different kid, and he's like working

494
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: at Roundtable Pizza and like working as a grocery bagger,

495
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: and like he's like annoyed that.

496
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: He has to.

497
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: He's like, they said, they send us to school, but

498
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: they don't pay, you know, like it it's almost like

499
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: some of his complaints at that time are like like

500
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: reminiscent of like high school class president things. They just

501
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: send us here to give us something to do while

502
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: they're working, and uh, stuff like that. But around this

503
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: time he also writes his poem that is fucking awesome

504
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: called government Assistance or My Soul. It says it would

505
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: be like a panther asking a panther hunter for some meat.

506
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: All high school dropouts are not dumb, All unemployed aren't lazy,

507
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: and there are many days I hunger, but I would

508
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: go hungry and homeless before the American government gets my soul. Yeah, yeah,

509
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: fucking rules like his politics are so fucking like on

510
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: point and like ahead of their time.

511
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 2: You know.

512
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 3: Also shows like you know, like I think we all

513
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: were all products of like the homes we come from too,

514
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: and like what you hear ambiently, the discussions, the kinds

515
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 3: of discussions you hear, and it's clear like comes from

516
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: a revolutionary home. And then I just again, I keep

517
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 3: thinking about Jada and will and like Jaden Smith, like

518
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 3: remember those early interviews him and Willow would do and

519
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: they're like the thing about.

520
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: Molecules is yeah, like the fuck up?

521
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: Yeah child, you know what I mean in tubax like

522
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: I will never give my soul to the fucking American

523
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: government that needs me.

524
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, very different kinds of conversation happening.

525
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: So he uses his connections of this time to get

526
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: in touch with the manager of the rap group Digital Underground.

527
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: He auditions for Shock G with a rap called The

528
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: Case of the Misplaced Mike that feels very like nursery rhyme.

529
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: It's like they finally did it, they stole the mic.

530
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: I grip.

531
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: Now that it's gone, I'm feeling tired and sick. Yes,

532
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 1: but he joins the group. They're like, this guy's definitely

533
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: got something you can like see, like his wrapping is

534
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: like still eighty, like a little in the eighties, but

535
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: like he's just so fucking like his stage presence and

536
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: like even just you know, he's got I think, one

537
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: of the best voices in the history of rap, even then,

538
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: even when it's like kind of singsongy nursery rhyme. So

539
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: he joins Digital Underground, starts recording his own demo, the

540
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: nineties hit. He's touring with Digital Underground, he becomes friends

541
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: with Rosie Perez, then a dancer for Heavy d. There's

542
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: a good section in the Dear Mama documentary where there's

543
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: just like footage from these this era when he's touring

544
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,959
Speaker 1: with Digital Underground, and this is when he's like up

545
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: all night smoking blunts, and then like they wake up

546
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: in the morning, he's like already filled like three notebooks

547
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: with like rhymes and poetry. And then they get on

548
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: the tour bus and he makes them listen to Mariah

549
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: Carry because he like always wanted to have like emotion

550
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: in his music, and he was like he would just

551
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: like listen to everything he was. It was early Mariah

552
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: So nineteen ninety Mariah Carey. I think it was like

553
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: the emotions. Yeah, yeah, you gotta say feeling emotions.

554
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, guys, we need more emotion and or check

555
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 3: this track out by Mariah.

556
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 4: Carey and while Mariah's like, guys, we need rap on

557
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 4: my song exactly.

558
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: In February of nineteen ninety one, he makes his film

559
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: debut with Digital Underground in the movie I always remember

560
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: Juice as his film debut, but it was.

561
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 4: Actually Nothing but Trouble.

562
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: Nothing but Trouble Danfroid's directorial debut and also his final

563
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: film as a director.

564
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 2: You guys have seen that movie, right, I have. It's

565
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: the serious movie, way.

566
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 4: Serious movie ever made.

567
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: It is like so grotesque.

568
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 4: It is a nightmare. I mean, I know some people

569
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 4: who love it because it's so scary.

570
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: But it is it's like such a specific nightmarish vision.

571
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 4: It's kind of like long eighties too, where it's like

572
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 4: it's gonna be the nineties in a minute. But some

573
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 4: people don't know that.

574
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: You know, but what first time one of his verses

575
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: appears on a Digital Underground track is same song, which

576
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: is like the theme song for Nothing but Trouble.

577
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: Uh.

578
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: He appears there's like you can watch his first scene

579
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: in Nothing but Trouble, and he is the best actor

580
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: like in the scene, even though all he has to

581
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: do is at one point, dan Aykroyd starts like riffing

582
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: on an organ and like Tupac just has to like

583
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: look and be like, damn, that's pretty good, and he

584
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: like just does does a great job.

585
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 4: So Mike, you dan Akwroyd is riffing on an organ

586
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 4: and like the scariest process monster making ever seen.

587
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: Chevy Chase, meanwhile, is just like doing like he looks

588
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: so fucked up and bloated and like unhappy, and.

589
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: I think its some racist shit in his mind exactly.

590
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: You can see the racist thoughts reading across the space.

591
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:00,239
Speaker 4: Uh.

592
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, a lot a lot of the music video

593
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: features a lot of straight to camera mugging. But chevy

594
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: Chase and then his verse doesn't make it into the movie.

595
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: But you know, in the music video, it's the whole

596
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: song and his Yeah, chevy Chase's verse doesn't make it

597
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: out of the back what they said it around this time.

598
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: Music executive Tom Wally brought one of Tupac's demo tapes

599
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: to work at Innerscope, which is at this time a

600
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: small record company founded by Jimmy Iving and Ted Field. Uh,

601
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: and Ted Field gives the demo to his daughter, who

602
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: is like, this is fucking awesome, and so they signed Tupac.

603
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: It's so weird how often it's just like the children

604
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: of entertainment.

605
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 4: Executives like I'm out of touch.

606
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm out of touch.

607
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 4: Hey you tell me, Yeah, what do you think of this?

608
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 4: And they're like, hey, this any good kid? Yeah, So

609
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 4: they signed him. He records an album in like fifteen minutes,

610
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 4: and in October nineteen ninety one, just weeks before his

611
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 4: first album, tw Apocalypse Now, is coming out, he's stopped

612
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 4: by two Oakland police officers for jaywalking, as we now know,

613
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 4: a very racist crime in terms of how they choose

614
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 4: to implement it. They goed him, beat him unconscious. He

615
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 4: sues the Oakland Police Department for ten million dollars. The

616
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 4: case was settled for forty two thousand, and yeah, forty

617
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 4: two thousand. This is, by the way, the first thing

618
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 4: I ever hear about Tupac shakor Is is this this

619
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 4: story on MTV news, local rapper Tupac jacts like, that's

620
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 4: my favorite Jaywalker.

621
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 2: It was your favorite Jaywalker?

622
00:34:54,160 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: He raps it's but I do remember like seeing him

623
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: talk about this prime like on MTV News, and you

624
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 1: know that they were like making fun of his name.

625
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: They're also like mocking him for saying I can't breathe.

626
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: Like a lot of there's a lot of shit throughout

627
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: this where his like interaction and like abuse of the

628
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: hands of police is like you know, rhymes with a

629
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that has since become very famous

630
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: for horrifying reasons. They're mocking him for saying he can't breathe.

631
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: Later on, like what a cop says that he was

632
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: like going to run him down with his car, which,

633
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,879
Speaker 1: as we've seen, the police love to use that as

634
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: an excuse for just murdering someone in their car, and like, well,

635
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: he was basically using a weapon because he was driving

636
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 1: a car. But he talks in the documentary about how

637
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 1: when he goes to sleep at night, he like those

638
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: cops are on him again and again, and like he's

639
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: just like think about what he's already experienced at this

640
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: age at the hands of cops. Like being questioned in

641
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: middle school being you know, having your.

642
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: Basically like father figure.

643
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: You know, you're the guy who is your mom's husband,

644
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: who's always around, like have to go on the lamb

645
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: because Cohen Telpro is like putting him on the FBI

646
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: Top ten list and then being beaten so bad. This

647
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: is actually at a time when like the stress from this.

648
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: Jada Pinkett says that like he kept it quiet, but

649
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,439
Speaker 1: like he developed alopecia from this, and this is when

650
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: he starts shaving his head. And it's not like a

651
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: fashion choice. It's because, like Hess, the stress was like

652
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 1: giving him like bald spots.

653
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 3: Damn, And here I am just with male powder of baldness.

654
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: I wish I could lie about some shit.

655
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: Okay, Jada also have alopecia, Yeah, Jada, she was like

656
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: his was even worse than mine.

657
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 3: So Will Smith is always like, damn, who am I

658
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 3: even to this woman?

659
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 2: Fucking nothing? Yeah, a sperm donor.

660
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: One of the themes that gets a lot of attention

661
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: from his first album is killing of police officers, but

662
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: he points out it's always in the context of self

663
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: defense on on these early tracks.

664
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, because there's a guy who like shot a cop

665
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: and did his lawyer try and be like he was

666
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 3: inspired by Tupac Your Honor?

667
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, that comes a little bit later, but yeah,

668
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 1: there's they basically try to do the you know, backmasking

669
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: like Py Meddle thing with him where they like blame

670
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: him specifically music.

671
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, the music made him do it.

672
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: Rend Has Got a Baby is the big song from

673
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: the first album, which is inspired by a newspaper story

674
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: he read about a twelve year old who was impregnated

675
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: by her own cousin through the baby into an incinerator.

676
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: When he was growing up, one of his punishments was

677
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: to have to read the New York Times.

678
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 2: His mom was, Yeah, she.

679
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: Was like, you specifically go over there and read about

680
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: how you're evil for defending Palestine. But he got exposed

681
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 1: to reading the news, and then that became a lifelong habit,

682
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: and he's a voracious reader. When he's in prison, he's

683
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: like taking down two books a day, which is when

684
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: he reads Machabelli and decides to fake his own death.

685
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: Is my version of things. He does like have a

686
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: lot of sort of black power movement messaging in his

687
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 1: early tracks and kind of throughout he'll always like name

688
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: drop different people like from the Black Panther Party who

689
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: are on the run. He frequently referenced Latasha Harlan's, who

690
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 1: was the fifteen year old black girl who was shot

691
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: in La and her murder received a particularly light sentence.

692
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: Keep your Head Up opens with the text dedicated to

693
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: the memory of Latasha Harlan's. It's still on. So she

694
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: was a fifteen year old girl who was in a

695
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: grocery store in a Korean like shop owner shot her

696
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: in the head, and the police like convicted her and

697
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: then the judge was like, yeah, we're gonna put her

698
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: on probation, and like Tupac would talk about how the

699
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: punishment was on par with like what is given two

700
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 1: people for harming a dog, you know, right, And yeah,

701
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: he was just like always aware of how completely fucked

702
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: the situation was and the wrongs that were being done.

703
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just think the resistance of the of

704
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: the past couple decades looks looks a lot different if

705
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: he's still around. But for instance, that crime, I hadn't

706
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: realized like they upheld that sentencing like a week before

707
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: the La riot. So that was like in concert with the.

708
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 2: Simmering tensions, as they would say in the La Times.

709
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: That's right.

710
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: So in January nineteen ninety two, Ernest Dickinson's Juice was released,

711
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: marking Tupac's movie star debut. Played the role of Bishop.

712
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: The film is successful, gross is over twenty million dollars

713
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 1: in The New York Times says he's the film's most

714
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: magnetic figure. As we mentioned already, like I think he

715
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: would definitely have an oscar if he had survived. Did

716
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: you know he he read for the part of Bubba Gump, which,

717
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: like that's crazy to me even then, Like he was

718
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: like for that, yeah, hee, like.

719
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 4: A Forrest Gump type figure.

720
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, had a depiction of like when Forrest

721
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 3: was at that Black Panther meeting, there's like a little

722
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 3: baby Tupac somewhere in the background.

723
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 4: So Forrest Gump goes to a Black Panther meeting. I'm

724
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 4: only at once. Oh my god, it is the one

725
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 4: time I saw it. I think I the whole time,

726
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 4: I was just going what.

727
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's a very intentionally dismissive. Yeah. So when

728
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: he goes when Forrest goes to Washington, d C.

729
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: First of all, he like gets off the bus and

730
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,439
Speaker 1: there's just all these lines of protesters, Like the way

731
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: they represent the counterculture movement is like a bunch of

732
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: lines of protesters just getting in lines and moving around

733
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: for the sake of moving around, just kind of aimlessly.

734
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: But when he goes to the Black Panther Party headquarters,

735
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: there's like this guy who's playing one of the leaders

736
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: who's like speaking angrily at him, just is just like

737
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: speechifying in his direction, and Forrest Gump sees like Jenny

738
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 1: get hit her or whatever, and is like, I'm gonna

739
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: go beat up the guy hit her, and he walks

740
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: away and the guy keeps yelling at the same spot

741
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: Forrest Gump was in like he's an anger robot and

742
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: like that he he like doesn't even notice that Forrest

743
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: Gump has gone, and it's it's just such a fucking

744
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: It just reveals such a deep unwillingness to uh view

745
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: black the Black Panther Party as like actual people who

746
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 1: have actual complaints and instead is just like they're just

747
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: like being angry for the sake of being angry.

748
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: There NPCs was was he was, yeah, were they willing

749
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 3: to confront what society had to reckon with there? And

750
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 3: the depiction is like, we get it. Remember these people

751
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 3: they were what were they mad about? Yeah, it's sort

752
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 3: of like what that whole scene feels like, that's so crazy.

753
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 4: That movie won so many Oscars.

754
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, if Tupac had.

755
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 4: Been Bubba Gump, it would have been different.

756
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 2: If things would have been different. Tom Hanks's crew would

757
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 2: be over.

758
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, acted off the screen so hard, the whole shrimp

759
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 3: shrimp stew, but like with more fucking anger, like shrimp

760
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 3: gumbo a little more.

761
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: I don't think he had range. I think Robert z

762
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 2: Vegas would would not have been able to deal with

763
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 2: Tupac's real mines.

764
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 3: You know, he had like fifteen minutes but to prep

765
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 3: for that juice audition.

766
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, everything about like he just does things so quick.

767
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: It also put shed some light because I was going

768
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: back and listened to all eyes on me and like

769
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: some of the guest verses that I've always I've always

770
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: been like, yeah, this is like not that great like

771
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: the other people. Apparently he would make people write their

772
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 1: verse and perform it in like fifteen minutes. He would

773
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: just be like, come on, come on, go go go,

774
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: like you can kind of tell what's your problem.

775
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 4: It doesn't everyone have just an endless well of inspiration.

776
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, endless well of inspiration that you're just constantly in

777
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: touch with and ready to go. Like he recorded like

778
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: two of the best songs on that album, uh like

779
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,240
Speaker 1: fifth within fifteen minutes of getting to the Judeo less

780
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: than twelve hours after still being in prison.

781
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 4: Like he was just like he had a lot, He

782
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 4: had a lot to say, He had.

783
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: A lot to say.

784
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: So in nineteen ninety two, he moves to Los Angeles

785
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: and starts hanging out with gangsters and you know, people

786
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: in the bloods and crips and draws a lot of

787
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: inspiration from them. His road manager Man Man later said

788
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: he started hanging around thugs he would suck it out

789
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: of them and then use that in his music and

790
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 1: his acting. And yes, but like he that's just how

791
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: I feel like he exists. Like he's just pulling whatever

792
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 1: is around him out out of it and like he's

793
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about that with like Marilyn Monroe

794
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: and like the borgeous story about that theorizes that Shakespeare

795
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: is like this empty vessel for like different characters and

796
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: stories to flow through, and like feels like he he

797
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: kind of had a bit of that, but he can do.

798
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 3: It in such a way that like you'd think you

799
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 3: were like you were a little artchy kid and now

800
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 3: you're a thug. It's like, but his upbringing is identical

801
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 3: to all just terribly oppressed black people in this country.

802
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 3: So it's like it's not that far of a jump

803
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 3: to connect to that anger and rage that maybe would

804
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: have you would have been in a gang, but he

805
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 3: was just more in the book. So I think that's

806
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 3: I remember always being like that was like one of

807
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 3: the first sort of like myths people would tear down

808
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 3: about Tupac when I was younger.

809
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: It was like, you know, he's like from the East

810
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,439
Speaker 2: cost he's not even from the West coast.

811
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 3: Also, he's like he did ballet, yeah, And I'm like, yeah,

812
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 3: but even everything I see this is so authentic, Like

813
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 3: is the mouse king King the mouse King bro.

814
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: So he around this time, buys a gun, starts gaining muscle,

815
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: starts getting tattoos. This is when he gets the thug

816
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: life tattoo.

817
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 4: Well, so you got to remember he's like in his

818
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 4: early twenties. People are changing rapidly. Oh well, like, oh

819
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 4: yeahart acting a different way. It's like, yeah, so do.

820
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: A lot everyone. Yeah, the fifteen lives he leads are

821
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: like the ten different careers that he spawns, like are

822
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 1: all happening in a three year period, like from twenty

823
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: one to twenty four when he dies.

824
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 4: He has so many goes in that short period of time.

825
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: But shout out a Daggo's tattoo in Houston, Texas where

826
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 1: he gets the thug life tattoo.

827
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 2: So this is what I means, right, Was that what

828
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: thug life stands for? Yeah? The hate you give little

829
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: infants fucks everyone.

830
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 4: I did not know.

831
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: And that's why the book The Hate You Give is

832
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 3: name The Hate You Give after Tupac's tattoo, because this

833
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 3: was a huge part of his worldview was that the

834
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: criminalization and you know, inhumane treatment of young black children

835
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 3: manifests in creating people like it has a boomerang effect

836
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 3: on society that affects everyone. And so he was really

837
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: that was like, you know, towards the end of his career,

838
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 3: that's when he was really really get like leaning into

839
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 3: some real societal change type shit. It was like he

840
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 3: was like, no, I really want to make thug life

841
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 3: this philosophy. I want to mainstream this for society because

842
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 3: now I have the platform with my with my fame

843
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 3: and my rapping to really also go after something I

844
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 3: really believe in, which is equity. And yeah, like the

845
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: you know, the author of The Hate You Give talks

846
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 3: about that a lot about how she was inspired just

847
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 3: by hearing him talk about that tattoo, and it was like,

848
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 3: holy shit, Like what a fucking have you no idea?

849
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, off the Dome is always ready to like give

850
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 1: a treatise on like you know, shit like that that

851
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: is you know, really deep and well thought out.

852
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 2: And you know, there's footage of him because.

853
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: They there are points at this time where the Black

854
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: Panther Party or you know, similar movements are like we

855
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 1: should bring him into the movement, like make him the

856
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 1: new leader of the new Black Panther Party. And he's

857
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: like going to these speeches with like all these older

858
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: people and he's just like, look, I'm gonna say fuck.

859
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: Sorry, just I apologize. I'm going to say fuck, but

860
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: I can'not say fuck.

861
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: They're just like giving these extemporaneous speeches that are like

862
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: fucking amazing.

863
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 4: And they're like dynamite. Yeah, They're like, hey, this guy's dynamite.

864
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 4: And then Brad's fielding this is when Ronald Ray Howard,

865
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 4: the teenager kills the Texas State trooper and dan Quayle

866
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 4: says that the album to Apocalypse Now must be withdrawn,

867
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 4: saying it has no place in our society. And at

868
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 4: this time Tupac says this about his family and my family.

869
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 4: Every Blackmail with the last name of Shakur that ever

870
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 4: passed the age of fifteen has either been killed or

871
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 4: put in jail. There are no Blackmail Chakors out right now,

872
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 4: free breathing, without bullet holes on them or cuffs on

873
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 4: his hands.

874
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 2: None.

875
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: And then from the New Yorker article about that used

876
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: that following that quote, the leaders of the black nationalist

877
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: movement to which the other Chaquors belonged, had been virtually eliminated,

878
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: largely through the efforts.

879
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: Of the FBI.

880
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: Hey, the FBI always always the villain in these stories,

881
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: whether it be Marilyn Monroe.

882
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 3: Or It's going to be such a hard rebrand for them.

883
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 3: I don't know what they're gonna do, but.

884
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 2: It's like also wild just to think too.

885
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 3: Like with that dan Quayle's statement, like Tupac's whole inspiration

886
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 3: for two Apocalypse Now was like I'm trying to I'm

887
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 3: just expressing what the experiences for young black men. That's

888
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: what it is. This isn't me inciting anything. This is

889
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 3: me just accurately trying to depict what my life is like.

890
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 4: Also to call it two apocalypse now, yeah, like apocalypse now,

891
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 4: which is also you know, the FBI was mad about

892
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 4: Apocalypse Now too because it showed that war sucks.

893
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 2: Right Yeah.

894
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: And then to have like will be like this place

895
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 3: has a place in society, I think it's just still

896
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 3: sort of indicative of where we still are in terms

897
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 3: of our reckoning with just people of color, especially Black

898
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 3: American people, to be like this thing that is them

899
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 3: expressing the oppression that they're experiencing.

900
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: This has no place, like, this is no place in

901
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 2: society exactly to.

902
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 3: Sugar Paw, honey Bunch, you know that I love you,

903
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like that's and I think

904
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,439
Speaker 3: that's what really important too about him because he also

905
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 3: felt that responsibility and he's like, man, fuck it, if

906
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: the entire media is going to just come at me

907
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 3: for saying this, then it is what it is.

908
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 2: But I'm not going to stop.

909
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: He There are multiple times throughout this where I'm like,

910
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: I guess the US government wasn't directly responsible for killing Tupac,

911
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: but they must have been so glad that he was

912
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: dead because there's so much about him that is so

913
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: powerful and in a way that is everything they feared,

914
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: like all at work they put into fucking co intel

915
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: pro and like holding down the Black Panther Party like that.

916
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: He must have scared the shit out of them.

917
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, they can never make the US government

918
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 4: look cool.

919
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 2: No, they definitely can't.

920
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 4: They certainly try, but they.

921
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: So this was something I knew, that he was cast

922
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: a menace to society and fired during pre production, and

923
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: that he then assaulted Alan Hughes, one of the Hughes

924
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: brothers who directed that movie and who directs the Dear

925
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: Mama documentary. There's like a fun part where they're like,

926
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna turn the cameras around and now

927
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: we're going to ask you about the time that Tupac

928
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: beat the shit.

929
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 2: Out of you.

930
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 4: But he he was like it was an honor.

931
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

932
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 1: He was also right because you guys have seen menaster society. Yeah,

933
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: they cast him, They cast Tupac as the mild mannered

934
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: nation of Islam friend.

935
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, though I.

936
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 4: Could see him doing it because he is such a

937
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 4: good actor.

938
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 2: He is a good actor.

939
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,760
Speaker 1: But like dog, like I feel like he's playing oh dog,

940
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: it's a I don't know. I like that was my

941
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: favorite movie for many years of my life, but like

942
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: it's a move like such a like I feel like

943
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: Lorenz Tate does a great job in that movie. He's

944
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: playing Tupac essentially, Like if Tupac is the Lorenz Tate character,

945
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if we would have been able to

946
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: handle it, but at the very least he is. I

947
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: think his frustration was like he didn't like that character

948
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: and was like, give me another character that is like

949
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: more in line with my vibe and they would do it.

950
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

951
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: So ninety three, his second album comes out strictly or

952
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: strictly for my never ignorant getting goals accomplished Zee. That's

953
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 1: the acronym that he loves.

954
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 2: He loves an acronym.

955
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but this has I get around on it.

956
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: Keep your head up. Some of some of his you know, classics,

957
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: I get around still so good.

958
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm shot the one who put the satin

959
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: on your pan.

960
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 4: He's a magician.

961
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:28,959
Speaker 1: He is the looms the best talking head in the documentary,

962
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: and it's so sad that he passed.

963
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 2: Uh.

964
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: He's he's great and like really really just cool to

965
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: hear you talk about early tupac. Uh. Around this time,

966
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: he starts wearing red around crips and blue around bloods.

967
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: And there are like a couple of times where like

968
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: the people like man Man are like the people who

969
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:53,399
Speaker 1: he keeps around him to like advise him, uh and

970
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: who are like kind of understand the streets a little

971
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: bit more, are like and that was stupid, like just

972
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: to wear right around crips and vice versa. The other

973
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: one is hanging out with this guy Haitian Jack, who

974
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: were about to get to and then the other one

975
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: was trying to leave death row. He fired the lawyer

976
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: who was his like basically his legal representation right before

977
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: he went to Las Vegas, and people were like, that's

978
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 1: not You're not going to survive that very long. So

979
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 1: in March, he's arrested for allegedly attacking a limo driver.

980
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: He attempts to hit rapper Chauncey Winn with a baseball

981
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: bat during a Michigan concert, charged with felonious assault, pleads

982
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: guilty to a lesser case. But this is kind of

983
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: what you were talking about, Miles, Like people would test

984
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: him because they heard the thing about like he used

985
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: to do ballet, and so he felt like he had

986
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: to prove how hard he was. This is when he

987
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: becomes a real, a real point of fascination for the

988
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,919
Speaker 1: white media. There's this talking head at this time from

989
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: the Documentary's like, Tupac Shacker is a one man crime wave,

990
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: and I do I just always remember them calling him

991
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 1: Tupac Shacker, you know, one man crime wave. One man

992
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: crime wave is like a fucking coolest thing to say.

993
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 4: Away, You're just one guy and you're a wave.

994
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: March nineteen ninety three, he attends the Soul Train Music Awards,

995
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: where Rosie pres introduces him to Madonna and they have

996
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: a brief affair. July ninety three, Poetic Justice is released

997
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: and John Singleton cast Tupac after seeing one of his

998
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: interviews on TV. It's not his like previous film work,

999
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: but it's just like, god damn, like every time this

1000
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 1: guy appears on camera, he's so fascinating.

1001
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 3: He was going to be of higher learning too. Yeah,

1002
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 3: and then they well then went all the arrest shit.

1003
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,439
Speaker 3: They were like okay no, and he was also John

1004
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 3: Singleton was alther saying he wanted him to be in

1005
00:55:59,239 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 3: Baby Boy.

1006
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: Yea yeah when he first sought that up.

1007
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 3: But then it was tight guy, Like so many things,

1008
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 3: You're like, what would that have fucking what would any

1009
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 3: of these things have looked?

1010
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 4: Like?

1011
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: So many what ifs? Of Like man, he would have

1012
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: been so good in that. He meets Snoop at the

1013
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 1: Poetic Justice premiere. They become close friends. His performance is

1014
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 1: generally praised. He's convicted of possessing a loaded and concealed

1015
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: weapon in la around this time, sends to forty five

1016
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 1: days on a work crew. October nineteen ninety three, he's

1017
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 1: arrested for shooting two off duty police officers in Atlanta

1018
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: after he witnesses them harassing a black man who, like

1019
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: he pulls up so he's coming from a concert, pulls up.

1020
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: There's these two plain clothes white guys beating up this

1021
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: black guy on the street. They have a gun. Like

1022
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: he starts yelling at them. They use their gun to

1023
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: like smash his window, the window of his car, and

1024
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: then I just want to read from this biography. He

1025
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,479
Speaker 1: turned to everyone in his car, all the while keeping

1026
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: his eyes on the man and his gun, saying, someone

1027
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: give me the gun. No one moved. He yelled again,

1028
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: someone gave me my gun. Suddenly, one of the men

1029
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: used the butt of his gun to smash one of

1030
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: the windows in Tupac's car, before both took off running

1031
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: the victim, the black man, who had been punched to

1032
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: the ground moments before, crawled to his car and drove away.

1033
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: Hupac reached into his car so he gets out, walks

1034
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: around to the passenger side where his gun is. Gets

1035
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: his gun, quickly scanned the street, saw the two men,

1036
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: took a knee in a military stance, and aimed his gun. Everybody,

1037
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: get the fuck down, he called out. Then he fired.

1038
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: According to The New York Times, two bullets found their

1039
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: way into his targets. Both men were knocked to the ground.

1040
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: One was struck in the buttocks, the other in the abdomen. Then,

1041
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: as if none of it had just happened, Tupac invited

1042
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 1: his entourage up to his hotel room and starts rolling

1043
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: blunts and smoking weed and like having a party. As

1044
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: his friend is like, I think those two men you

1045
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: shot were cops. I'm like watch I'm out here in

1046
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: the whole street is like crawling with cops, and he's

1047
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: just like, all right, yeah, no, that's whatever.

1048
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 2: You shouldn't have been there. Yeah.

1049
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: This is another one of those moments where just like

1050
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: everything happens at the same time, because later in the chapter,

1051
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: Tupac yelled out to the room, Yo, wait a minute, everybody,

1052
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: I want everybody to hear my new song. Within seconds,

1053
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: Tupac's voice filled the room as Dear Mama began to play.

1054
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: Dante recounted the moment, He's over there, rolling up weed,

1055
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: laughing and playing music like he didn't just shoot two people. Shortly,

1056
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: a knock at the door started everyone in the room

1057
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: except Tupac, who was calmly rolling a blunt. Someone looked

1058
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: through the peep hole and announced it's the police, and

1059
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: he said, okay, fine, let him in. He recalled, I said,

1060
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 1: what what do you mean, let him in? You just

1061
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: killed two people outside the moment the police entered the suite,

1062
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: they looked right at Tupac and they said, you come on.

1063
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,439
Speaker 1: Popoc got up and made no bones about it. He said,

1064
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: I did it, Yeah, I did it. He was arrested

1065
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: and released on fifty five thousand dollars bond. There's also

1066
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: in the documentary talks about the shooting. He drops to

1067
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: one knee, took aim and like the guy who is

1068
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: in the car is like, dude, what are you doing?

1069
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: Like you can't hit them from there. They're like forty

1070
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: five feet away and they're like running away. But his

1071
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: mom had just gotten sober and moved down to Atlanta

1072
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: with him and they had a shooting range in the backyard,

1073
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: so he had been working on it. He like pulled

1074
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: up from the logo and just like nailed these guys

1075
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: in the ass. He seems like he's going to be

1076
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: in a lot of trouble for this, but then it

1077
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: turns out that they're off duty, they're drunk, and the

1078
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: gun that they used to yeah, it was stolen from

1079
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,919
Speaker 1: the evidence locker, so they can't do shit to him.

1080
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: And it's almost like he knew that. He's just like, yeah,

1081
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: fuck you.

1082
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1083
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: So this is when he meets Biggie for the first time.

1084
00:59:55,320 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: An LA drug dealer introduced them and he whenever he

1085
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 1: was out in LA he would sleep on Tupac's couch.

1086
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: But like Biggie was a huge Tupac fan. He they

1087
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: would like play with unloaded guns in his backyard, because again,

1088
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: they're like kids essentially, right.

1089
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 2: You're want to play with my guns in my backyard?

1090
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: Guns? Yeah, guns. And around this time, Biggie asks Tupac

1091
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: to be his manager. He's like, I don't really like

1092
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: puff like he whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa.

1093
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I'm getting a little bit of a sinister

1094
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 4: vibe from.

1095
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:33,439
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah.

1096
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: But is like, that guy is going to make you

1097
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: a star. You should actually stick with him, which he

1098
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: was right, but to a point. Unfortunately, Yeah, inflection point.

1099
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: What this is? This is a big inflection point. In

1100
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, he temporarily moves to New York City

1101
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: to film Above the Rim. As he's preparing for the role,

1102
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 1: he starts hanging out with Jahcasian Jack Agnant, who is

1103
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: a music promoter who everybody who's from New York is like.

1104
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: Biggie is like, dude, you should not be hanging around

1105
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,439
Speaker 1: that guy. He's like, really fucked up?

1106
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 2: What's the worst? Yeah?

1107
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: And then that November, So this is from a New

1108
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: Yorker article on Tupac on November fourteenth, nineteen ninety three,

1109
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 1: jack Agnant and Tupac went to Nell's, the downtown New

1110
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: York club. A friend of Egnant's identified only as Tim,

1111
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: introduced Tupac to a nineteen year old woman named Ayana Jackson.

1112
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: She expressed her interest in him. They danced together, she

1113
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 1: performed oral sex on the corner of the dance floor.

1114
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 1: They went to his hotel room, where they had intercourse.

1115
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: The next day, she called and left many messages on

1116
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: his voicemail, saying, among other things, how much she'd enjoyed

1117
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: his prow with. Four days later, on November eighteenth, she

1118
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: returned to his hotel suite. There she found Tupac, man

1119
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 1: man Agnot, and an unidentified friend of Egnant's. They all

1120
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: watched television in the living room, and then she and

1121
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 1: Tupac went into the bedroom. Later, the three other men

1122
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: entered the room. What ensued as disputed Jackson claims that

1123
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: she was forced to perform oral sex on Tupac while

1124
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: Ignot partly undressed her and grabbed her from behind, and

1125
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: that they then made her perform oral sex on Egnant's

1126
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: friend while Tupac held her. Tupac claimed that he left

1127
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: the room when the other men entered and did not

1128
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: witness whatever happened in any case. Jackson testified that she

1129
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 1: left the suite and tears and that Egnot told her

1130
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: to calm down. Thing that he would hate to see

1131
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: what happened to Mike Tyson happened to Tupac. That is

1132
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: a woman charging homosexual assault, which is what Jackson promptly did.

1133
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 1: She's some of the hotel security officers who called the police. Tupac, Manman,

1134
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 1: and Egnot were arrested, So he at the very least says,

1135
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't do it, but I was responsible

1136
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: for not stopping happened essentially, and there's a lot of

1137
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: weird shit with Egnot. So his lawyer is somebody from

1138
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: the patrolman's Benevolent Association, so he's like a cop. Lawyer

1139
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: moved that his client's case be severed from Tupac's on

1140
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: the ground that only Tupac had been charged with the

1141
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 1: weapons offenses and that therefore the indictment was improperly joined

1142
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 1: and the prosecutor did not oppose the motion, which Tupac's

1143
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: lawyer says is highly unusual, and the judge granted it.

1144
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: So it's there are some questions about like whether this

1145
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: was a setup, but you know, the victim has always

1146
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: said like I was not part of a setup, and

1147
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: like this is what happened, and you know, I think

1148
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: we believe her that, you know, she was she was assaulted.

1149
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there was like a huge settlement too after

1150
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 3: that too, because yeah, yeah, were yeah, some of the

1151
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 3: charges were dropped. And I remember Tupac went on like

1152
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 3: Darcinio Hall Show after that, and you know it was

1153
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 3: like he said, quote I like, I was hurt that

1154
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 3: a woman would accuse me of taking something from her

1155
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 3: because you know, then he did this thing.

1156
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 2: I was like, I was raised in a house full

1157
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 2: of females.

1158
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 3: But it's like, dude, yeah, you like, at worst, you're

1159
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 3: a fucking predator.

1160
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 2: At best, you're an ain't ship man. Yeah, yeah exactly.

1161
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 4: So he was like, hey, I just put up dear Mama.

1162
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 2: Listen to this, Yes, yeah, listen to a.

1163
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 3: Man who wrote dear mama do such a thing. And

1164
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 3: it's like, well, sir, this.

1165
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, as he is waiting to go on trial,

1166
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: he is filming Bullet with Mickey Rourke and Mickey Rourke

1167
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 1: become friends. I start wrecking shiite. Mickey Rourke recalled, we'd

1168
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: be crossing the street to go to a club, you'd

1169
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: already hear the bouncers say, they're here together. What are

1170
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: we supposed to do us? Mickey Rourke and Tupa apparent.

1171
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 3: Like they when Tupac was in jail, him and Mickey

1172
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 3: Rourke were like regularly writing letters, and Mickey Rourke's always like, man,

1173
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 3: Tupac was there for me when I was really down.

1174
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 2: This guy have my back. You're like, what a fucking

1175
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 2: wild crew. Yeah. He also received letters from Jim Carrey

1176
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 2: and the one that meant the most for some reason

1177
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 2: is Tony Danza wrote him a letter.

1178
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,959
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, I really liked your album Keep

1179
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 1: your head up.

1180
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 4: To He's a seventies kid. He probably watched Who's the Boss,

1181
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 4: you know.

1182
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 2: He's also He was also close with the Lanis Morisset.

1183
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, he and Alanis Morisset were going to open a

1184
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: restaurant together.

1185
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 4: Yeah wow, what kind of food would they have at

1186
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 4: the restaurant? I wonder Canadian California and California and yeah, salad.

1187
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: So this is around the time. Because of his multiple

1188
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: court cases, he also has many family members relying on

1189
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: him financially. His bank account is shrinking, and during jury

1190
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: deliberation for his sexual assault trial. He is recording a

1191
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 1: guest for a rapper named Little Sean. Yeah, and a

1192
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: Little Sean's a friend of Diddy and Biggie. He's going

1193
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: to Quad Studios. Little Sean's manager is Jimmy Henchman Rosemand,

1194
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: who knew Tupac through Haitian Jack and he's the one

1195
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 1: who made the offer. Around this time, Tupac is openly

1196
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: in the media being like, weird that Haitian Jack is

1197
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: like being treated so well, almost like he's a government operative.

1198
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: And this is the guy who's like so dangerous. Everyone's like,

1199
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 1: don't don't fucking hang out with that guy. He's like

1200
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 1: openly being like, guy's a cop and to anyone who

1201
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: will listen. So he comes to the studio. At first,

1202
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 1: he has some hesitation because there's a bunch of dudes

1203
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: in the lobby wearing army fatigues. But rapper Litlsey's yells

1204
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 1: down to him that biggie's upstairs and that Diddy's there

1205
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: as well. So he goes in. The guy's pull guns

1206
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 1: on him and there's a shooting. There's like some question

1207
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: over like how many times he was shot. Some people

1208
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 1: say that he accidentally shot himself and everything else was

1209
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 1: like getting pistol whipped and beat down, but he was shot.

1210
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: Still went up upstairs to the recording studio after being

1211
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: shot and was like everyone was really weird, Like nobody

1212
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: would kind of look at me. Everybody seemed really surprised

1213
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: to see me. This is where he starts to suspect

1214
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:59,479
Speaker 1: that it was Biggie and Puff who had set him up. Right,

1215
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: So he goes to the hospital and then checks himself

1216
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: out within a few hours.

1217
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 2: Yep, it's just like I'm out to go to the

1218
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 2: home girl's house.

1219
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jasmine Guy goes and goes to the house of

1220
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 1: Jasmine Guy. Immediately after this, like he goes to the

1221
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 1: courthouse with like massive bandages around his head and you know,

1222
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: all fucked up in a wheelchair. He's acquitted of the

1223
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 1: three sodomy counts in the chart for legal possession of

1224
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 1: a firearm, convicted of two counts of sexual abuse. His

1225
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: bail was set at three million dollars. As time goes on,

1226
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 1: he came to believe the Biggie new the shooting at

1227
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: Quad Recording Studio is going to happen, and he starts

1228
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: receiving a lot of letters in the mail, being like, Hey,

1229
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: this is what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that they knew

1230
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 1: what happened. He's also certain that the song Hushatcha is

1231
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: about him, but that song was actually recorded before the

1232
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: shooting actually happened, so I don't know. It's knowing what

1233
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:06,600
Speaker 1: we know about Puff, it seems like anything's possible. It

1234
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: also seems very plausible that Haitian Jack was not thrilled

1235
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: with him, saying that he was an FBI informant and

1236
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: like the person who invited him to do the verse

1237
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 1: was someone who's in the name as literal henchman, and

1238
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 1: he is an associate of Haitian Jack, and it would

1239
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 1: have been easy for him to organize it as well.

1240
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 3: It is well though, too, like knowing who Shatcha wasn't

1241
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 3: about that, and Trump was like, oh, okay, well, I

1242
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 3: guess I'm just gonna have to record hit him up

1243
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 3: now right and fully blow the fucking lid off this

1244
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:42,639
Speaker 3: thing too.

1245
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, did you say Trump was like, did I

1246
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 2: say that? Yeah?

1247
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 3: He said, well, yeah, Jesus Tupac, Yeah, I don't think

1248
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 3: Trump has a hit him up first.

1249
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 4: You're getting your New York rappers confused.

1250
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 1: They Trump did sue Mickey Rourick and Tupac for like

1251
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars for damages they did to his

1252
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: hotel at the time.

1253
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 2: Really they were on a tear and realize he factored

1254
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 2: into this. Yeah, he always does. Unfortunately he's for us.

1255
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:15,759
Speaker 2: Come yeah seriously.

1256
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: February seventh, nineteen ninety five, he sentenced to one and

1257
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 1: a half to four and a half years in prison.

1258
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: A few months later, the indictment against Haitian Jack is

1259
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 1: dropped and he pleads guilty to two misdemeanors. So Tupacs

1260
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 1: maintained his innocence in an interview, but said he should

1261
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,760
Speaker 1: have intervened. Even though I'm innocent of the charge they

1262
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 1: gave me, I'm not innocent in terms of the way

1263
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: I was acting. I'm just as guilty for not doing

1264
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 1: nothing as I am for doing things. He's incarcerated the

1265
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 1: Clinton Correctional Facility Dana Mora, Yeah, you know from Escape

1266
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: from Danamora, and there's just like the guards are fucking

1267
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 1: horrible to him. There's an anecdote from somebody who goes

1268
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: to visit him and they like do a cavity check,

1269
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,920
Speaker 1: go on Tupac before he goes into the room, and

1270
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 1: then also afterday he comes out and like at the

1271
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: end of the thing, like as his time's running out,

1272
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 1: they're like, oh Tupac and like waving the gloves at him.

1273
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: So it's just like fucking horrific shit. Yeah, evil, evil

1274
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 1: shit that you know. They hated him for a very

1275
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 1: long time, telling me these CEOs are bad people.

1276
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 2: I know, you believe it. I thought all the rappers

1277
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 2: were lying when they mentioned CEOs.

1278
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: But this is when Me Against the World was released,

1279
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 1: and this is his first album that just goes directly

1280
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 1: to number one and stays there for four weeks. This

1281
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 1: is one of one of my favorite albums. And yeah,

1282
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 1: he recorded all ahead of going to jail. I always

1283
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: assumed it was like partially like his prison album, but

1284
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,680
Speaker 1: it just because it came out while he was in prison, right,

1285
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:53,760
Speaker 1: But you know it wasn't.

1286
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:55,720
Speaker 4: It's crazy to be like, Okay, I gotta get this

1287
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 4: done before I go to jail, and.

1288
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 2: Then just album's doing well, Oh, oh cool, good to hear.

1289
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 3: Oh they like so many tears, great, great, so many tears.

1290
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:09,799
Speaker 4: It's crazy though, too, Like the more adversity he faces,

1291
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 4: the more creatively productive, he becomes.

1292
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, he just and like that's just always how

1293
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: he like he is activated by bullshit, Like he's activated

1294
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 1: by anybody pushing back against him or anything that like

1295
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 1: doesn't want him to be who he is, you know.

1296
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 1: So because he has a lot of people depending on

1297
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: him financially, you know, he gets six hundred thousand dollars

1298
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:38,719
Speaker 1: in advances for me against the World, but it's not enough.

1299
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 1: And this is when Sug Knight starts visiting him, along

1300
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 1: with the lawyer David Kenner. So Sug did not like

1301
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 1: Tupac as an artist at first. He was like, oh,

1302
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: he's liking to his like artsy shit, you know. But

1303
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,600
Speaker 1: then once Tupac started committing crimes, he was like, oh

1304
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: wait a second, like the he started doing the kombucha

1305
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 1: face Britney bro Britney Breski k So he starts courting

1306
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,800
Speaker 1: Tupac at a time when Dre is thinking about leaving

1307
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: death Row and Snoop is on trial for murder that

1308
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 1: I remember at the time.

1309
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 4: They gave him.

1310
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, murder had of course been the case that they

1311
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 1: gave him, and I just remember everybody.

1312
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 2: Being like Snoop going away for life, yeah, this is yeah, he's.

1313
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 3: And I remember like everyone's like, did you know his

1314
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 3: name is Calvin Brotus. That's such a dorky fucking name.

1315
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 3: I remember that was like fucking nerd. I think as

1316
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 3: in the Murder is the Case video it had his

1317
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 3: headstone with his with his government name on. Everyone's like

1318
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 3: what the few I don't even know if this is

1319
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 3: like pre internet where you just figured I don't know

1320
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 3: his name is Snoop doggie dog.

1321
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then like it's Calvin Brods Okay.

1322
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:49,679
Speaker 1: So he gives him a three page contract that's basically

1323
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 1: like we'll advance you a million dollars, always advancing, never

1324
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 1: get anything, paying plus one hundred and twenty five thousand

1325
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 1: dollars for a purchase of a car, one hundred and

1326
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:03,799
Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars for expenses over a year, an additional

1327
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for legal fees. Should

1328
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:11,680
Speaker 1: becomes your manager, Kenner is your attorney. Just all these

1329
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,720
Speaker 1: things that are like conflicts of interest, and people, you know,

1330
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 1: legal analysts have like come back and been like this

1331
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: could not hold up in a court of a lot

1332
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 1: because he's like obviously doing these things under duress, but

1333
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 1: he tells his friends, I know I'm selling my soul

1334
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 1: to the devil. And it really it's crazy, Like within

1335
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: a week of signing the deal, he's granted leave to

1336
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:36,439
Speaker 1: post bail, which the New Yorker is even like, what,

1337
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: how the fuck do they do that? They're like, what

1338
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:43,759
Speaker 1: a stunning coincidence that they're just like it is truly

1339
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,960
Speaker 1: like signing a deal with the devil. Like all of

1340
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 1: a sudden, just like the court system starts moving and

1341
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 1: like the door's open on the jail that you've been

1342
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: held in. You're like, yeah, well, welcome, You're free. He

1343
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 1: gets out immediately, like gets in a rolls. Royce is on

1344
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 1: a private jet to La on October thirteenth, nineteen ninety five.

1345
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 1: He lands in La, goes straight to Canam Recorders, which

1346
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:14,799
Speaker 1: is Death Row Record San Fernando Valley Studio. Within forty

1347
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 1: five minutes, he'd laid down a verse of ambitions as

1348
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 1: a ride to finished the track that day. Plus, I

1349
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: ain't mad at you, like I'll call the first day you.

1350
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:26,559
Speaker 2: Doing ambitions at the right straight out of jail, just

1351
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 2: right out of jail. Wow.

1352
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: He starts working for nineteen hour days just recording the

1353
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: whole album, and like a flurry.

1354
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 4: You had a lot to say.

1355
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

1356
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 1: Between his release from prison and his death less than

1357
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:44,479
Speaker 1: a year later, he cut hundreds of songs. I didn't

1358
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 1: realize he was dead less than a year after he

1359
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 1: left jail again, like yeah, three life till like seven years. Yeah,

1360
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: laid down a career's worth of tracks and literally like

1361
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 1: eight months. People are like, oh, so you like wrote

1362
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:59,720
Speaker 1: all these songs in jail, because how do you have

1363
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: some any songs ready to go? He's like, I wrote

1364
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: one song in there. I've been in the studio every

1365
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 1: waking hour since I got out. We just keep coming

1366
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 1: up with new songs till people start passing out. Then

1367
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 1: we come back early in the morning and start over.

1368
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 2: Canam Is in North Hollywood.

1369
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:16,680
Speaker 4: I think also, that's too yeah, like many of the

1370
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 4: great recording studios.

1371
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 3: Shout out, shout out our lovely North Hollywood, look at us.

1372
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 3: The other thing is the way people talk about it.

1373
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 3: I would have loved to see a Chris Farley Show

1374
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 3: interview with Tupac. So you like write all your songs

1375
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 3: in jail or you just got a notebook? It's like,

1376
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:38,879
Speaker 3: because everyone's just so baffled by his output, his prowess,

1377
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 3: and just like how much I feel.

1378
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 2: Like I would even ask a question like that.

1379
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:45,120
Speaker 3: Way, So you you got a lot of notebooks and stuff.

1380
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 2: Cool cool.

1381
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes when you're just impressed by somebody, it is

1382
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 4: just like wow, that's crazy.

1383
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:55,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all you honestly like that's kind

1384
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 1: of the experience of doing this research.

1385
01:16:57,640 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 2: It's so you do that. What the fuck?

1386
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 1: So sug would often be working, would just like kind

1387
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:08,120
Speaker 1: of always be where Tupac was, Like while Tupac was working,

1388
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 1: he'd be close by also working. Then they would hang

1389
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 1: out afterwards. He would just hand Tupac stacks of one

1390
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 1: hundred dollars bills and they were just always together. At

1391
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 1: one point around this time, he saves Tupac from drowning

1392
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:27,479
Speaker 1: in Cabo because the current in Cabo's like super dangerous

1393
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 1: and Tupac decided to try swimming and shug dove in

1394
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:32,120
Speaker 1: and sit them.

1395
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:33,879
Speaker 2: So like you as got pulled up by a riptide

1396
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 2: or something.

1397
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's Have you ever been to Cabo, Like

1398
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 1: they won't let you swim down there?

1399
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:40,759
Speaker 3: No, yeah, I know, there's only like the I remember

1400
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 3: one of the first times I went, I'm like, let's

1401
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 3: go to the beach. You're like, oh no, you can

1402
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:46,519
Speaker 3: sit on the sand. Yeah, that's right, And I was like,

1403
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 3: what the fuck. Okay yeah, Brian de Edd Yeah, Malcolm

1404
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 3: Jamal Warner, Yeah, in Costa Rica was a riptide.

1405
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm the mental image of Shug saving someone from drowning.

1406
01:17:58,640 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1407
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:05,680
Speaker 3: Well he's apparently if you were like, yeah, hold on,

1408
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 3: I'm coming.

1409
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, just like Sugar, like swimming out.

1410
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 1: So Sugar was a football player, then he was a

1411
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: security guard and swimming is hard. Yeah, I know exactly.

1412
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 1: But this is again. People are like, Tupac is a chameleon.

1413
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:28,760
Speaker 1: Whatever he's around, that's what he turned into. And when

1414
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 1: he got around death Row, he became that with this

1415
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: like soldier mentality. They go on a fucking tear. Death

1416
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 1: Row does take care of his family better than Interscope did.

1417
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 1: They put him up with the Westwood Marquis Fenn. He said,

1418
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 1: death Row in the beginning treated us much better than innerscopeet.

1419
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 1: But November nineteen ninety five, a wrongful death lawsuit against

1420
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 1: Tupac was settled out of court. This one was like,

1421
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 1: this was one of the early things. It was really

1422
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:59,559
Speaker 1: fucked up. So they were doing an event and like

1423
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 1: the fan like started talking shit and Tupac reached for

1424
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:07,679
Speaker 1: his gun and dropped it, and then his brother picked

1425
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:10,800
Speaker 1: it up and started firing shots over the head of

1426
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:14,280
Speaker 1: the crowd to like get people back. But it like

1427
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 1: struck a child, a six year old and killed him

1428
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 1: in the Bay area. So this is when he settles

1429
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 1: that out of court.

1430
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 2: I remember that was something too.

1431
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 3: They really tried to not have get out or like

1432
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:29,559
Speaker 3: was talked about very little because like the headlines were

1433
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 3: just like Jesus.

1434
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, this is when the East coast West

1435
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 1: coast shit starts to like really pop off. So Tupac

1436
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 1: while he's in jail is being told like it was big,

1437
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 1: it was puff. And in September of this year, a

1438
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 1: bodyguard and friend of Suge Knight was killed after a

1439
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 1: confrontation with Ditty December at a Christmas party, an associate

1440
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:59,639
Speaker 1: of Diddy mark Anthony Bell. It comes to a death

1441
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 1: row Christmas party and Suge Knight is like, hey, why

1442
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 1: don't you come back here me, me and Tupac and

1443
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:10,000
Speaker 1: you know, some other people are smoking weed back there,

1444
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 1: and is tortured by Suge Knight who is basically like,

1445
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 1: I want to know who killed my friend, and I

1446
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 1: want the address of Diddy and his mother, which Suge

1447
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 1: Knight would often like negotiate either by just like showing

1448
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 1: you his gun like while not saying anything, or showing

1449
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:35,840
Speaker 1: you your mother's address like that was one of his

1450
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 1: favorite negotiation tactics. So what they do in this like

1451
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 1: back room at this Christmas party results in death Row

1452
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,839
Speaker 1: having to pay this guy six hundred thousand dollars settlement.

1453
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 1: And so this is when Tupac starts saying that he

1454
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 1: slept with Faith Evans. They work together on a song.

1455
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 1: She denies that they ever hooked up, and by February,

1456
01:20:57,200 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 1: he's already planning to leave death Row. Tupac's starting plans

1457
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:05,679
Speaker 1: for a production company called Euphanasia, and he's making steps

1458
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: to separate his business from death Row. And then All

1459
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 1: Eyes on Me Is released twenty seven tracks, first ever

1460
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,679
Speaker 1: double CD by rap artists, debuted at number one. Because

1461
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: of it being two discs, it became it was like

1462
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 1: extra profitable. It earned ten million dollars in revenue in

1463
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 1: its first week, putting it only behind the Beatles Anthology

1464
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 1: on the list of the most successful openings in the

1465
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 1: history of music at that time certified Diamond with ten

1466
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:34,599
Speaker 1: million copies sold. This is when the Vibe magazine cover

1467
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 1: story with sug Snoop Dre and Tupac posed like goodfellows

1468
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 1: comes out.

1469
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 2: All yeah.

1470
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 1: This is when Tupac and Biggie encounter each other at

1471
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 1: the Soul Train Awards and Biggie like, there's reports that

1472
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: Tupac pulled a gun on him. Biggie says, Nah, pock

1473
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:55,880
Speaker 1: didn't pull steel on me. He was on some tough shit.

1474
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 2: Though.

1475
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:58,519
Speaker 1: I can't knock them dudes for the way they go

1476
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 1: about their biz. They made everything seem so dramatic. I

1477
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 1: felt the darkness when he rolled up that night.

1478
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 2: Damn.

1479
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 1: He still seems like he's just a fan. He's like, man,

1480
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:08,640
Speaker 1: I can't knock him.

1481
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 3: Though.

1482
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:11,640
Speaker 2: They've really got like pretty charismatic.

1483
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 3: The baseline was that they were friends, like they really

1484
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:18,320
Speaker 3: admire each other, so like, yeah, it's yeah, like, I mean,

1485
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 3: I can totally see how even despite that, You're.

1486
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,520
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I mean I get it. Yeah.

1487
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,800
Speaker 1: During that spring, he films Gridlocked, and he's just like

1488
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,760
Speaker 1: making movies as he's like doing so much. He's doing

1489
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 1: so much time Gridlocked is the one with uh with

1490
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 1: Tim ro Roth where they played drug addicts. There's an

1491
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: interview with Tim Roth where he's like and I was like,

1492
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 1: oh fuck, I gotta like act it across from this musician,

1493
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 1: and I was so bummed. And then I'm of course

1494
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:50,599
Speaker 1: bummed when I realized he's also a much better actor

1495
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:54,360
Speaker 1: than me. And then he's spending most of the summer

1496
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety six filming Gang Related with Jim Belushi. Yeah, Jesus,

1497
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 1: but that's that's one we could have not used one

1498
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:03,759
Speaker 1: of the last months.

1499
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, to be filming goodlock is great though, yeah, uh yeah.

1500
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:13,080
Speaker 1: All of his performances around this time are getting like ravees.

1501
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 1: He's also dating Kidada Jones, Quincy Jones's daughter at this time. Yeah,

1502
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 1: so he said some wild ship, I know. So the

1503
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:29,679
Speaker 1: reason that he even meets up with her is that

1504
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:35,240
Speaker 1: Rashida Jones, famous from Many Things, wrote an open letter

1505
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:38,559
Speaker 1: to Tupac and the Source about something Tupac had said

1506
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:43,839
Speaker 1: about her father. Basically, he said that like, he's always

1507
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: like marrying white women and then having these fucked up children.

1508
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 2: With him, was so against the interracial marriage shit. Yeah.

1509
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even when when he was like talking to

1510
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:57,680
Speaker 1: there's like letters between him and Madonna where he's like,

1511
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:01,439
Speaker 1: for you, it's cool that you're like fucking me. For me,

1512
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 1: I don't like when it says that I'm like fucking yeah.

1513
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:09,320
Speaker 1: So but yeah, he approached that Kidada thinking she was

1514
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 1: Rashida to apologize and the two headed off. And this

1515
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 1: is also there's a weird rumor that around this time

1516
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 1: he called Kadata a bitch and Michael Jackson overheard him

1517
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 1: and fought Tupac.

1518
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:24,880
Speaker 2: I don't know how.

1519
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that Michael jackscratch sound. Yeah, there's somebody who like

1520
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:31,680
Speaker 1: went on a radio show and was basically like and

1521
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson whooped his ast too and.

1522
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 3: Walked on him, all over him. Then he did that

1523
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 3: thing where he's on his toes but on Tupac's eyes.

1524
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:44,719
Speaker 2: He was never right.

1525
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 4: After that, that all eyes on me.

1526
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:47,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1527
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:50,120
Speaker 3: I tried to swing and then Michael did the lean

1528
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 3: from the Moonwalker, Yeah yeah, from Smooth Criminal.

1529
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:53,680
Speaker 2: Just ducked it.

1530
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,040
Speaker 4: You know when people talk about Michael Jackson using his

1531
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:58,559
Speaker 4: real voice though, when they're like, oh, when you would

1532
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:02,559
Speaker 4: be with him, he'd be like, yeah, what's up?

1533
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:05,479
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, oh you thought that was real?

1534
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, like he's like a different person here.

1535
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 1: I do have this quote. I just in the tradition

1536
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 1: of the Daily's like I said, you just need you

1537
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 1: to read this quote from Quincy Jones. I'm potentially having

1538
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: Tupac as his son in law twenty twelve quote.

1539
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 2: I wasn't happy at first.

1540
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 3: He'd attacked me for having all these white wives, and

1541
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:27,160
Speaker 3: my daughter Rashida, who was at Harvard, wrote a letter

1542
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:30,559
Speaker 3: to the source taking him apart. I remember one night

1543
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 3: I was dropping Rashida at Jerry's Delicate testen such a

1544
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:41,680
Speaker 3: deep cut for la people. Bro Jerry's Jerry's like bro.

1545
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:45,200
Speaker 3: I was elude, okay, shout out Jerry's delicate. I was

1546
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:48,200
Speaker 3: dropping Rashida at Jerry's Delicate testing and Tupac was talking

1547
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:49,480
Speaker 3: to Cadata because.

1548
01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 2: He was falling in love with her.

1549
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:53,040
Speaker 3: Then, like an idiot, I went over to him, put

1550
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 3: two arms on his shoulders and said, pop, we.

1551
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 2: Gotta sit down and talk. Man.

1552
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:58,599
Speaker 3: If he had a gun, I would have been done,

1553
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 3: but we talked. He aboulo. We became very close after that.

1554
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:04,720
Speaker 3: Once I was having a date at the Hotel Bell

1555
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 3: there and he came by and told the waiter that

1556
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:08,040
Speaker 3: he would be back.

1557
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 2: He was going home to put on a tie, you

1558
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:13,640
Speaker 2: like lobster bisk.

1559
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,360
Speaker 3: Just what yes, some of those, he said, he'd be

1560
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:19,719
Speaker 3: What a weird way to end that, I know, such

1561
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 3: a weird he was going on to put.

1562
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 2: On a tie. The end, Tupac's out wearing a fuck like.

1563
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:26,680
Speaker 1: I had a man to man talk with him. If

1564
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:29,519
Speaker 1: he had a gun, I would have been dead. It's like, no,

1565
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:32,200
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have. You would he would have just continued

1566
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:35,480
Speaker 1: talking to you music legends, Quincy Jones.

1567
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:38,879
Speaker 3: Unless he's trying to be like he was tough talking Tupac,

1568
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:40,640
Speaker 3: and so he said, if he had a gun on him,

1569
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:41,799
Speaker 3: maybe I would have he would.

1570
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:43,439
Speaker 2: Have lasted me or some shit.

1571
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:47,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, Quincy, We'll never know what's real with you.

1572
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:48,719
Speaker 2: But it doesn't matter.

1573
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 1: So August twenty seventh, he directs one of his longtime

1574
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 1: friends who's helping him with his business, to write a

1575
01:26:57,200 --> 01:27:01,519
Speaker 1: letter firing Kenner, the lawyer who came in and was

1576
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:05,200
Speaker 1: like given power of attorney with the death row contract.

1577
01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:09,639
Speaker 1: Then they go to New York for the VMAs and

1578
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:13,639
Speaker 1: around this time Snoop like goes on a radio show

1579
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:16,080
Speaker 1: and is like, yeah, you know, like I would still

1580
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:19,040
Speaker 1: work with like big Er like Puff like because they

1581
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:23,519
Speaker 1: make good music, and Chupac like won't talk to Snoop

1582
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:28,240
Speaker 1: after that and should won't let Snoop bring his security

1583
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 1: on the flight home from New York. So Snoop like

1584
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 1: when he's on the plane, like puts a blanket up

1585
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,679
Speaker 1: to his neck, but then is holding like his knife

1586
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 1: and fork under his thing, like in case they attack him,

1587
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:43,639
Speaker 1: and like pretending to sleep, and he's like, they're going

1588
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: to fucking kill me.

1589
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:46,640
Speaker 2: Holy shit, I didn't know that.

1590
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:50,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's why Snoop is not in Vegas.

1591
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:55,400
Speaker 1: When they go to Vegas on September seventh, they're there

1592
01:27:55,439 --> 01:27:59,000
Speaker 1: for the Mike Tyson Bruce Selden fight. After the fight,

1593
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: Sugars throwing a party at his Las Vegas club six six'

1594
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:08,800
Speaker 1: to two mob on a phone, keypad And tupac wanted

1595
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:12,040
Speaker 1: to go To, atlanta but should convince him to go To.

1596
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 1: Vegas Kadata jones is there. Now tupac's fiance is also In,

1597
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:21,680
Speaker 1: vegas so it takes at a hotel or, something right

1598
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,759
Speaker 1: like waiting for, yeah, yeah. Right Takes tyson two minutes

1599
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:28,200
Speaker 1: to knock Out. Selden the fight's, over by eight. Forty

1600
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 1: tupac Hugs. Tyson they're very close.

1601
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 4: Friends he wrote a song and he wrote an entry.

1602
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:38,320
Speaker 1: Song. Yeah in the, documentary some Of tupac's friends kind

1603
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 1: of Blame Bruce selden for what happens, next because they're, like,

1604
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:43,759
Speaker 1: well you, see like we went there for a fight

1605
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 1: and then like we barely got a, fight so we were,

1606
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:52,880
Speaker 1: like look, really, now after the fight is, over Fucking Bruce.

1607
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:58,240
Speaker 1: Selden so, Night tupac and their entourage leave the fight

1608
01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:01,760
Speaker 1: and they See Orlando Baby Lane, anderson who is a

1609
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 1: member of The Southside Compton Crips shook's affiliated with The

1610
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:12,960
Speaker 1: bloods The. Piru So anderson's, Uncle Dwayne keefe D davis

1611
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:16,559
Speaker 1: is also. There about a month, before member of The

1612
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:21,840
Speaker 1: crips had Robbed Trayvon lane from death row of his,

1613
01:29:22,160 --> 01:29:26,800
Speaker 1: chain and So laye Tells tupac That anderson was the

1614
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:30,000
Speaker 1: person who robbed. Him they run After, anderson beat him,

1615
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:33,639
Speaker 1: up stomp. Him security guards come break it. Up tupac

1616
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 1: goes back to his hotel, room tells people, like, WELL

1617
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 1: i just beat the ship out of the. Sky hangs

1618
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:41,519
Speaker 1: out there for a little. Bit check out my new

1619
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:42,840
Speaker 1: video For California.

1620
01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:50,120
Speaker 3: Love it feels like also like, also how about This california?

1621
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:51,200
Speaker 2: Love do we feel like? That?

1622
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:56,000
Speaker 1: Okay but the guy that they had beat Up anderson

1623
01:29:56,400 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 1: was like a murderer with like many bodies on his,

1624
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:01,559
Speaker 1: Name like they kind of picked the wrong. ONE a

1625
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:06,080
Speaker 1: little bit before, Nine, Shug tupac and their crew leave

1626
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:09,439
Speaker 1: THE Mgm grand there's two hours WHERE i think he's

1627
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 1: like back in his room getting, ready and then this

1628
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:16,880
Speaker 1: is when Kepd davis goes and gets a. Gun they're

1629
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 1: in a lineup of cars set to depart for the

1630
01:30:20,200 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 1: club night gets in the driver's seat of his BLACK.

1631
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 1: Bmw tupac sits next to him in the passenger seat

1632
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:29,920
Speaker 1: with the window. Down normally they would have had armed

1633
01:30:29,960 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 1: bodyguards riding with, them so it's unusual that they're. Alone

1634
01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 1: the outlaws are in the car behind, them AND i don't,

1635
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 1: know it's like a little. Weird sugar was LIKE i feel.

1636
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 1: Like sugar was, like you need to ride with, me

1637
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:50,679
Speaker 1: and is kind OF i don't know if he wanted

1638
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:52,360
Speaker 1: to talk to him about firing.

1639
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:53,320
Speaker 2: The lawyer or.

1640
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 1: What at around, eleven the police pull Over sugar And

1641
01:30:56,479 --> 01:30:59,200
Speaker 1: tupac because their music is too, loud and they don't

1642
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:01,400
Speaker 1: have license, plates but they just like kind of let

1643
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:04,599
Speaker 1: them go without giving a. Ticket and then eleven, fifteen

1644
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:08,639
Speaker 1: they're stopped at a red light talking to girls in

1645
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 1: a car next to, them and then the women pull.

1646
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:14,840
Speaker 1: AWAY a White cadillac pulls up next to them and

1647
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:18,559
Speaker 1: starts firing on them thirteen shots from a forty caliber

1648
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:21,639
Speaker 1: a glock. Pistol tupac tried to crawl into the back

1649
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 1: seat And shug pulls them. Down four bullets Hit. Tupac

1650
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:29,880
Speaker 1: shug's forehead gets grazed by a bullet. Fragment there's a

1651
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 1: story like he's awake for a while after he got.

1652
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 1: Shot shug told him to hang on and he, said

1653
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 1: you're the one who got shot in the. Head that's

1654
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:41,240
Speaker 1: according To. Shug that could just be a story Of

1655
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:44,280
Speaker 1: shug's making up to be like me And Tupac butch

1656
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,040
Speaker 1: And sun dance And tupac's like kind of marveling at

1657
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:50,920
Speaker 1: how tough he. Is but the police and paramedics are

1658
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:53,200
Speaker 1: on the scene by around eleven. Twenty he's rushed to

1659
01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 1: The University Medical center goes into emergency. SURGERY i think

1660
01:31:57,439 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 1: his ring finger had been shot off and they have

1661
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:04,320
Speaker 1: to remove his right, lung and he stays in critical

1662
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:08,440
Speaker 1: condition for several days and then dies On september, thirteenth

1663
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 1: right of the, thirteenth at age twenty. Five and, YEAH i,

1664
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:17,280
Speaker 1: mean even, so there's This New yorker article, about like

1665
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:20,559
Speaker 1: from a couple of years, after where they're, like The

1666
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:23,760
Speaker 1: Las vegas police would appear to have been almost lackadaisical

1667
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:28,160
Speaker 1: in their approach To tupac's. Murder they made only perfunctory

1668
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:31,000
Speaker 1: attempt to Question tupac's cousins who are riding in the

1669
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 1: car behind, nights for. Example but then it's also you,

1670
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:38,400
Speaker 1: Know sugar is not. Cooperating, yeah someone asks, him if

1671
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 1: you knew who Killed, tupac would you tell the, Police

1672
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 1: and he said absolutely. NOT i don't get paid to solve.

1673
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:47,240
Speaker 1: Homicides But Orlando anderson was suspected by authorities of being.

1674
01:32:47,280 --> 01:32:50,960
Speaker 1: Involved he denied involvement and died in nineteen ninety. Eight

1675
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:55,200
Speaker 1: but according to his uncle later his uncle later wrote

1676
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 1: a book and was, like, yeah, no SO i bought the,

1677
01:32:58,080 --> 01:32:59,640
Speaker 1: gun handed it to, him he.

1678
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 4: Shot so they're really like telling everybody for years.

1679
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:05,799
Speaker 1: After, yeah it was kind of like an open secret

1680
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:12,240
Speaker 1: at this. Time puffy had like had meetings with crips

1681
01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:15,559
Speaker 1: where he was, like, MAN i would pay a million

1682
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 1: dollars for someone to Murder sugar In, tupac like that

1683
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:21,400
Speaker 1: was kind of a known. Thing so he never he

1684
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:27,040
Speaker 1: never paid out on. It but it is interesting, that like.

1685
01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 4: So many fucked up THINGS i learned From Murder Rap

1686
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:34,000
Speaker 4: yeah DOCUMENTARY i keep talking, about which is yeah that

1687
01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:36,640
Speaker 4: uh it was like one of the guys like the

1688
01:33:37,160 --> 01:33:38,920
Speaker 4: not only did they not did he not pay? Them

1689
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:42,120
Speaker 4: it was LIKE kivd was told that like the other

1690
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 4: guy had gotten the money and not him or, something

1691
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:48,320
Speaker 4: but it was like that was unprovable. Too so it's

1692
01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:52,800
Speaker 4: just all such a like a senseless, TRAGEDY i.

1693
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:57,600
Speaker 1: Know and, then, Uh march nineteen ninety, Seven bigie is

1694
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:01,640
Speaker 1: murdered In Los, angeles And i'm pretty sure like that

1695
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:04,599
Speaker 1: same guy who solved The tupac crime or like kind

1696
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 1: of figured out what happened, there believes that that one,

1697
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 1: was you, Know shoug was in prison and like kind

1698
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:16,760
Speaker 1: of had his, girlfriend you, know contact this guy who

1699
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:22,440
Speaker 1: was like a known blood like, uh you know assassin

1700
01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 1: who liked did the, killing right is essentially what it.

1701
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:30,160
Speaker 4: Is, Yeah, yeah and uh and maybe some cops are,

1702
01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 4: involved but will never, know never.

1703
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:34,920
Speaker 3: Know but, yeah LIKE i remember that in The didty, documentary,

1704
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:37,040
Speaker 3: right Like biggy didn't want to, go didn't want to

1705
01:34:37,080 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 3: be there In.

1706
01:34:37,560 --> 01:34:39,479
Speaker 4: La, well that's like one of the fucked up things

1707
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:41,479
Speaker 4: Did he was, like you got to go TO La

1708
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:43,000
Speaker 4: and he was, LIKE i don't THINK i should go

1709
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:44,639
Speaker 4: TO la seems like a bad, Ice.

1710
01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:46,519
Speaker 2: LIKE i want to go To london in it and

1711
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:51,040
Speaker 2: he's like, No, yeah it's.

1712
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 4: Crazy both of the murders were done kind of like

1713
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:55,800
Speaker 4: in front of. Everybody that's what's so crazy is they

1714
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:59,040
Speaker 4: were both like you, know The Las Vegas strip And

1715
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:03,040
Speaker 4: Miracle mile largest like such public, places, Right, yeah for

1716
01:35:03,120 --> 01:35:04,559
Speaker 4: all that to, happen so there was just a lot

1717
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:10,400
Speaker 4: of like unfortunate coincidence type stuff of like, yeah if

1718
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:12,679
Speaker 4: they hadn't the car hadn't pulled, up if those girls

1719
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:15,000
Speaker 4: hadn't pulled up in the car because they said they

1720
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 4: figured out where two pockinshit, were because those girls were

1721
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:23,080
Speaker 4: like it's tupa, yeah, yeah yeah it.

1722
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:26,720
Speaker 2: Sucks, yeah that was wild. TOO i remember when he.

1723
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 2: DIED i JUST i remember it so.

1724
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:33,200
Speaker 3: VIVIDLY i had this like weird little TINY tv in

1725
01:35:33,240 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 3: my room and like the news came up AND i

1726
01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:41,880
Speaker 3: was so that was like one of the first, times

1727
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:44,040
Speaker 3: actually the first When Miles davis. Died that was the

1728
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 3: first CELEBRITY i felt bad about BECAUSE i was, LIKE

1729
01:35:46,200 --> 01:35:49,680
Speaker 3: i was named after this. Person were named After Miles. David, yeah,

1730
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:51,680
Speaker 3: Yeah BUT i didn't know much About Miles davis's career

1731
01:35:51,760 --> 01:35:53,320
Speaker 3: UNTIL i got much, older AND i was, like, oh

1732
01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:55,640
Speaker 3: this like the furthest it got from. ME i was,

1733
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:57,320
Speaker 3: LIKE i started playing trumpet BECAUSE i was, like, WELL

1734
01:35:57,320 --> 01:35:58,160
Speaker 3: i was named After Miles.

1735
01:35:58,240 --> 01:35:59,040
Speaker 2: DAVIS i play the.

1736
01:35:59,080 --> 01:36:04,000
Speaker 3: Trumpet but With, TUPAC i just remember so much like,

1737
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:07,040
Speaker 3: that like you were, Saying, molly before we were. Recording

1738
01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:10,920
Speaker 3: it was A, Friday my birthday was that, weekend AND

1739
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:15,280
Speaker 3: i was just, LIKE i was, like, man nothing Matters tupac's.

1740
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:21,000
Speaker 4: Dad, yeah first first dance with the world might be

1741
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:23,560
Speaker 4: not that creat actually.

1742
01:36:23,320 --> 01:36:25,960
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah it's just a AND i think

1743
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:28,200
Speaker 3: there's just you, know so much of his music is

1744
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:30,640
Speaker 3: so powerful, too because like you, know of all the

1745
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 3: people you have more like you have the Real West

1746
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 3: coast gangster rap that wasn't really talking about like your

1747
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:38,640
Speaker 3: own vulnerabilities or your own trump you're, like you're describing

1748
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:41,680
Speaker 3: really dark. Shit but With tupac's you, know, lyrics the

1749
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:44,439
Speaker 3: pros of it really opened the door to really let

1750
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:47,280
Speaker 3: a lot more emotion out and wrap AND, i you,

1751
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:49,280
Speaker 3: know credit so much of like what we. See, like you,

1752
01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:51,000
Speaker 3: KNOW i don't, KNOW i don't know WHAT dmx if

1753
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:53,920
Speaker 3: his career exists in the same way Without, tupac Because

1754
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 3: tupac had that sort of same and like has that

1755
01:36:56,040 --> 01:36:57,520
Speaker 3: intensity to talk about.

1756
01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:00,479
Speaker 2: It's, like, yeah.

1757
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:04,719
Speaker 4: Doing like intersectional politics and his which is you.

1758
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:06,080
Speaker 2: Know yeah full of.

1759
01:37:06,120 --> 01:37:10,599
Speaker 4: Contradictions, Yeah LIKE i was obviously like very into him

1760
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 4: as A california, person but also BECAUSE i was, like,

1761
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 4: wow he's like women are, oppressed, RIGHT i know you are,

1762
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 4: oppressed and it's, tied.

1763
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:23,040
Speaker 2: Right, Okay.

1764
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:25,639
Speaker 3: Okay did you know That jada was going to direct

1765
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:29,360
Speaker 3: The California love. Video it's another interesting Tipt. Yeah, yeah,

1766
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:33,280
Speaker 3: yeah she She i'm pretty sure she Gave she's really

1767
01:37:33,320 --> 01:37:36,679
Speaker 3: all over the. Right she had the concept for the, video,

1768
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 3: yeah and then she was going to direct, it but

1769
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:42,839
Speaker 3: for whatever, reason just didn't end up directing.

1770
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 1: It that's such a weird direction for that. Video it's

1771
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:48,160
Speaker 1: a great, video but it's like a song that you

1772
01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:50,960
Speaker 1: would expect to be, like you, know celebrating.

1773
01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:53,720
Speaker 2: Things a, second.

1774
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 4: There's the part two video where it's like more of

1775
01:37:56,080 --> 01:37:59,840
Speaker 4: a traditional full party in a mansion. Video, yeah, yeah

1776
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:04,720
Speaker 4: but yeah it makes. Sense it's kind of. Burning it's The,

1777
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:09,960
Speaker 4: THUNDERDOME i will, say like to be In Los angeles

1778
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 4: when that came.

1779
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:13,840
Speaker 2: Out like like nothing like.

1780
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:16,040
Speaker 4: It, Yeah like, Honestly i'm, like, wow we grew up

1781
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:16,719
Speaker 4: in an amazing.

1782
01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:19,680
Speaker 3: Time, actually maybe like the closest thing was like When

1783
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:20,479
Speaker 3: Not Like us came?

1784
01:38:20,479 --> 01:38:21,640
Speaker 2: Out yeah that.

1785
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:23,800
Speaker 4: Too, no it is LIKE i was like wow When

1786
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:25,680
Speaker 4: Not Like us came, out it was like everywhere you

1787
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:28,120
Speaker 4: went In california you had to listen to people were

1788
01:38:28,120 --> 01:38:29,320
Speaker 4: playing it every.

1789
01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 2: Car aren't you? Listening this is this is our? Song?

1790
01:38:32,479 --> 01:38:34,519
Speaker 2: Yeah that one man In.

1791
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:36,680
Speaker 4: California it's like if a song is, good it has

1792
01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:38,080
Speaker 4: to sound good coming out of.

1793
01:38:38,040 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 2: A, car right. Yeah.

1794
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:42,840
Speaker 3: Yeah and then to live In dianela because when When

1795
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 3: macavelly came, out that was another one you had to

1796
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 3: blast out of your.

1797
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:47,719
Speaker 2: Car was to live In dianel with.

1798
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:49,799
Speaker 4: Me it's just funny. Too it's like all these songs

1799
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:53,120
Speaker 4: that are so kind of serious in a, way but

1800
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:57,920
Speaker 4: they're all just like fun to listen. To, yea all

1801
01:38:57,960 --> 01:39:01,320
Speaker 4: of those songs have great production and just great you,

1802
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:03,439
Speaker 4: know all little bouncy. Yeah.

1803
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1804
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:08,759
Speaker 1: Yeah LIKE i, said like the historic you, know tradition

1805
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:12,080
Speaker 1: that he was born into of like you, know systemic

1806
01:39:12,080 --> 01:39:15,559
Speaker 1: white supremacy and like violent oppression of The Black Panther,

1807
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:18,800
Speaker 1: party and just the fact, that, yeah it is such

1808
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:23,000
Speaker 1: a tragedy that even without like THE fbi actively being

1809
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:25,759
Speaker 1: the ones who pulled the, TRIGGER i think they must

1810
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:30,719
Speaker 1: have been very relieved when he went. Away and that fucking,

1811
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:33,439
Speaker 1: sucks you, know, well because he could have been so.

1812
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 3: POWERFUL i REMEMBER i had a meeting with his brother,

1813
01:39:37,680 --> 01:39:42,599
Speaker 3: briefly his half, Brother, yeah and he talked about really

1814
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:46,719
Speaker 3: what the most interesting thing to him was that the

1815
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 3: beginnings of what thug life was going to, Be, yeah

1816
01:39:50,439 --> 01:39:57,000
Speaker 3: and really trying to like mainstream this outrage over inequality

1817
01:39:57,040 --> 01:40:00,920
Speaker 3: and systemic racism BECAUSE i was, like was always on

1818
01:40:01,080 --> 01:40:03,559
Speaker 3: like the vision board For tupac of like what he

1819
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:05,639
Speaker 3: could be doing, Too AND i, know and it is

1820
01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:06,559
Speaker 3: it is.

1821
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:09,720
Speaker 4: Like after he, died you did have the sort of

1822
01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:13,960
Speaker 4: the big suits rap, era right exactly like conscious rap

1823
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:15,519
Speaker 4: we're mad about because they were like.

1824
01:40:16,040 --> 01:40:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeah the bling bling era came, Through, yeah, exactly and

1825
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:21,120
Speaker 3: the bling bling era definitely changed the course of.

1826
01:40:21,160 --> 01:40:23,640
Speaker 2: It BUT i Think i'm ignoring the.

1827
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:28,120
Speaker 1: PROBLEMS i acknowledge that there are problems that come from.

1828
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:30,719
Speaker 2: Me having so much fucking, money.

1829
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 3: BECAUSE i, mean you look at it, too like That's

1830
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:35,760
Speaker 3: diddy resting control of the hip hop narrative too at that.

1831
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:38,120
Speaker 4: Time, yeah being, like, hey just make a lot of,

1832
01:40:38,160 --> 01:40:44,400
Speaker 4: money don't worry about systematic, oppression, right just bootstrap your

1833
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:48,360
Speaker 4: way out of, it bling Blank nolan in The. Sky,

1834
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:52,360
Speaker 4: YEAH i think Cash money is it's in no. Limit

1835
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:56,720
Speaker 4: are their own their own episode will have to do, sometime, yeah, yeah.

1836
01:40:56,800 --> 01:40:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah but such a different style though, too you know

1837
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:00,479
Speaker 2: WHAT i. Mean That's.

1838
01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:02,360
Speaker 4: New.

1839
01:41:02,439 --> 01:41:06,560
Speaker 3: York, yeah, yeah like that's still, projects still have a

1840
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:09,120
Speaker 3: little bit of grime to. It whereas like The Puff

1841
01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:13,040
Speaker 3: daddy were In Times, square we're wearing batting gloves and weird,

1842
01:41:13,280 --> 01:41:13,639
Speaker 3: yeah and.

1843
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:18,080
Speaker 4: We're like we purchased a really expensive. Sample Whereas Cash

1844
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 4: money it sounds like you're driving the.

1845
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:23,559
Speaker 2: Worst warriors click you know yeah yeah yeah.

1846
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:26,200
Speaker 4: Yeah Cash money song call sound like you're like driving

1847
01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:30,439
Speaker 4: a clown car over a street full of thumb. Tacks

1848
01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:30,920
Speaker 4: kind of.

1849
01:41:32,200 --> 01:41:34,720
Speaker 3: More, yeah, exactly like it was such a less. POLICY i, mean,

1850
01:41:34,800 --> 01:41:36,720
Speaker 3: yeah no Limit soldier.

1851
01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:41,960
Speaker 5: Episode SOON i, Love, YEAH i, think, yeah good, god it's,

1852
01:41:42,120 --> 01:41:45,080
Speaker 5: UH i really do think like there was just so

1853
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:48,200
Speaker 5: much unfinished business and like the amount of question marks

1854
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:49,679
Speaker 5: over what that trajectory looks.

1855
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:52,479
Speaker 4: Like that's what's. Crazy WHEN i Watched Murder, wrap it

1856
01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:54,640
Speaker 4: is LIKE i was, like this is like just So

1857
01:41:55,000 --> 01:41:59,080
Speaker 4: shakespearean in. It, yeah like everybody is dead at the

1858
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:02,800
Speaker 4: end and and it's. Horrible it's just.

1859
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:04,360
Speaker 2: It's just it's a.

1860
01:42:04,360 --> 01:42:08,439
Speaker 1: Bummer it is an incredible story, There like there's been

1861
01:42:08,479 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 1: lots of articles written about. IT i will say the

1862
01:42:11,080 --> 01:42:17,000
Speaker 1: lack of like, definitive rigorous biographies Of, tupac like having

1863
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:19,160
Speaker 1: like done this research and being, like, oh this is

1864
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:22,280
Speaker 1: the best story Like i've ever, Heard like the lack

1865
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:26,880
Speaker 1: of like movies like. That there are plenty of documentaries

1866
01:42:26,920 --> 01:42:29,599
Speaker 1: and stuff like, that but it's, like, WELL i does.

1867
01:42:29,479 --> 01:42:31,720
Speaker 4: Make you think, too like if he had lived and

1868
01:42:31,720 --> 01:42:35,320
Speaker 4: he had continued to become more political and more famous

1869
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:39,559
Speaker 4: and more, influential Like i'm sure they would have picked

1870
01:42:39,840 --> 01:42:40,640
Speaker 4: co intel pro on.

1871
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:43,800
Speaker 1: Him oh, YEAH i get you, know they knew what

1872
01:42:43,880 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 1: Co Intel pro was WHEREAS i feel like a lot

1873
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:48,439
Speaker 1: of people who you know WHAT i mean he was

1874
01:42:48,520 --> 01:42:50,880
Speaker 1: talking about co intel pro in middle.

1875
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:51,600
Speaker 2: School you.

1876
01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:55,439
Speaker 1: Know, yeah not that that makes it any easier to deal,

1877
01:42:55,479 --> 01:42:56,040
Speaker 1: with but.

1878
01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:58,240
Speaker 4: It was, like you, know to bring a bunch of

1879
01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:03,080
Speaker 4: get introduced all these kids such As miles AND i

1880
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:07,559
Speaker 4: to like The Black panther, ideologies, yeah through through music

1881
01:43:07,720 --> 01:43:11,600
Speaker 4: after The american government had tried to completely stamping out you,

1882
01:43:11,600 --> 01:43:13,400
Speaker 4: KNOW i think about that a lot because it was,

1883
01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:17,400
Speaker 4: like you, know you Had tupac reviving all These Black panther,

1884
01:43:17,840 --> 01:43:20,519
Speaker 4: concepts and then we also had Like rage against The

1885
01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:23,760
Speaker 4: machine sort of you, know mainstreaming all these kind of

1886
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:26,320
Speaker 4: Like chicano rights. Things it was very just, like, well

1887
01:43:26,400 --> 01:43:29,680
Speaker 4: the sixties are not. Over, yeah didn't fix, it and

1888
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:31,880
Speaker 4: so it's going to keep coming.

1889
01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:34,599
Speaker 3: BACK i remember When Geronimo pratt got out of, jail

1890
01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:36,960
Speaker 3: my dad took a portrait for him for a, magazine

1891
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:38,960
Speaker 3: and he went up To oakland.

1892
01:43:38,640 --> 01:43:41,000
Speaker 2: To take the, picture AND i was, like what's what is?

1893
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:44,400
Speaker 2: This and then THEN i was, like He's tupac's.

1894
01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:47,639
Speaker 3: Godfather, Yeah and THEN i was like THEN i became

1895
01:43:47,680 --> 01:43:51,639
Speaker 3: interested In Geronimo. Pratt, Yeah and it's just interesting how

1896
01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:55,120
Speaker 3: you kind of sometimes need a person to co sign

1897
01:43:55,200 --> 01:43:57,719
Speaker 3: a thing and you're, Like, okay Now i'm really into,

1898
01:43:57,760 --> 01:44:01,600
Speaker 3: it WHICH i wouldn't have been. Before and, yeah IT'S

1899
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:05,479
Speaker 3: i think a very underrated aspect of his career THAT

1900
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:07,360
Speaker 3: i think most people don't realize too that as it

1901
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:10,880
Speaker 3: resonates into now and the way people talk about civil rights.

1902
01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:12,160
Speaker 2: Now, yeah and it was.

1903
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:15,360
Speaker 4: Cool to me that his mother was like the civil rights, activists.

1904
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah like the center of, it you, know like the

1905
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:22,280
Speaker 1: probably the most successful of anybody of like pushing back

1906
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:26,559
Speaker 1: against Cointelpro. Yeah all, right, well thank. YOU i know

1907
01:44:26,600 --> 01:44:28,920
Speaker 1: that was a long, one but there's a lot to

1908
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:35,080
Speaker 1: say About Tupac. Shacker Rapper Tupac. SHACKER i still like

1909
01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:37,760
Speaker 1: have that burned in my, brain just like all those

1910
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:41,080
Speaker 1: early news. Reports, molly where can people find? You follow

1911
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:41,639
Speaker 1: you all that good?

1912
01:44:41,640 --> 01:44:45,960
Speaker 4: Stuff you can find me On instagram At Molly Underscore

1913
01:44:46,080 --> 01:44:50,760
Speaker 4: lambert and you should check Out Jena, world where there

1914
01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:54,160
Speaker 4: is one Episode tupac shows up in in The Heather

1915
01:44:54,280 --> 01:44:59,639
Speaker 4: hunter episode episode. Ten Because Heather, hunter a famous lack vivid,

1916
01:44:59,640 --> 01:45:02,640
Speaker 4: girl first black vivid, girl was in the how Do

1917
01:45:02,680 --> 01:45:06,559
Speaker 4: You Want? It, video which was directed by a porn

1918
01:45:06,600 --> 01:45:08,920
Speaker 4: director Named ron High.

1919
01:45:08,920 --> 01:45:09,960
Speaker 2: Tower yeah makes.

1920
01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:13,760
Speaker 4: Sense, yeah a lot of a lot of overlap between those.

1921
01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 4: Worlds so check Out it's it is, like there's all

1922
01:45:17,320 --> 01:45:20,400
Speaker 4: these funny outtakes from the video Of Heather hunter sitting

1923
01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:23,519
Speaker 4: On tupac's lap and both of them trying to not

1924
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:27,599
Speaker 4: laugh really, well you, know you're trying to look, sexy

1925
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:32,559
Speaker 4: but you're kind of, yeah shooting a music, video, Right so,

1926
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 4: yeah check Out Jena world and more to come from

1927
01:45:36,240 --> 01:45:39,519
Speaker 4: The Molly Lambert, Universe Miley time, Soon.

1928
01:45:39,439 --> 01:45:45,559
Speaker 2: Yeah Mu Molly Cinematic. Universe, yeah That's Miles sorry Meet,

1929
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:47,719
Speaker 2: yeah where can people? Find? You find?

1930
01:45:47,720 --> 01:45:47,800
Speaker 1: Me?

1931
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:50,880
Speaker 3: Everywhere miles Of gray and check Out ain't A Foot

1932
01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:53,680
Speaker 3: it's the new Show i'm doing talking about. Soccer but

1933
01:45:53,760 --> 01:45:55,280
Speaker 3: you already know because if you listen to this, ship

1934
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:57,120
Speaker 3: you already heard me say this three thousand, times so

1935
01:45:57,200 --> 01:45:57,680
Speaker 3: please join.

1936
01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:00,400
Speaker 2: Me there you. Go all, right that's going to do

1937
01:46:00,439 --> 01:46:01,519
Speaker 2: it for this part of the.

1938
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:04,640
Speaker 1: EPISODE i will be back in a moment to do

1939
01:46:04,760 --> 01:46:08,720
Speaker 1: the notebook, dump WHERE i talk about stuff THAT i

1940
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:11,680
Speaker 1: realize an hour after we record this THAT i forgot to,

1941
01:46:11,760 --> 01:46:13,519
Speaker 1: say and THEN i say it.

1942
01:46:13,400 --> 01:46:16,599
Speaker 2: To you guys a little bit. Later all, Right thanks, guy.

1943
01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:33,280
Speaker 1: All. Right that was Our tupac, conversation thanks To, miles

1944
01:46:33,760 --> 01:46:37,080
Speaker 1: thanks To Molly lambert, obviously and our Researcher Meredith. Danko

1945
01:46:37,800 --> 01:46:41,040
Speaker 1: this is The No, No No no note Book Don't Don't,

1946
01:46:41,160 --> 01:46:44,040
Speaker 1: don't WHERE i go through and talk about the Stuff

1947
01:46:44,080 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 1: i'd Wish i'd spend more time. ON i Wish i'd

1948
01:46:46,280 --> 01:46:49,840
Speaker 1: spend more time on just what it felt like to

1949
01:46:49,880 --> 01:46:53,000
Speaker 1: be alive When tupac was, alive being a fan Of,

1950
01:46:53,040 --> 01:46:57,519
Speaker 1: tupac while he was making, music while he was starring in.

1951
01:46:57,560 --> 01:47:00,360
Speaker 1: Movies there's this. THING i talk about it every once

1952
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:03,880
Speaker 1: in a while on A tdz and definitely on our

1953
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:06,840
Speaker 1: OLD nba. Show there's this thing that happens every once

1954
01:47:06,840 --> 01:47:11,680
Speaker 1: in a while where in sports it will feel like

1955
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:15,519
Speaker 1: a movie is being, written like a player reaches such

1956
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:19,400
Speaker 1: a level of greatness that it's not just that they're,

1957
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:25,400
Speaker 1: dominating it's that they're scripting the outcome of a series

1958
01:47:25,479 --> 01:47:28,719
Speaker 1: or a game in the way that like the best

1959
01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:33,000
Speaker 1: possible writer would script reality like. It it's not just,

1960
01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:36,400
Speaker 1: winning it's like winning in the most dramatic, Way LIKE

1961
01:47:36,479 --> 01:47:39,760
Speaker 1: i remember it happening With jordan when he like his

1962
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:44,080
Speaker 1: last title with The. Bulls it wasn't enough to you,

1963
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:48,320
Speaker 1: know beat The jazz. Again he had this amazing what's

1964
01:47:48,360 --> 01:47:51,160
Speaker 1: called The flu game where he was like clearly very

1965
01:47:51,240 --> 01:47:53,559
Speaker 1: sick and came out and just like still played one

1966
01:47:53,560 --> 01:47:56,120
Speaker 1: of the best games of his career and then came

1967
01:47:56,120 --> 01:47:59,280
Speaker 1: out the next game and hit the game winning shot

1968
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:02,559
Speaker 1: and like stole the, ball just like the most dramatic

1969
01:48:02,560 --> 01:48:06,559
Speaker 1: SHIT i would, Say, lebron you, know coming back from

1970
01:48:06,600 --> 01:48:10,040
Speaker 1: three to one and beating the seventy Win. Warriors it

1971
01:48:10,160 --> 01:48:13,599
Speaker 1: just like it feels like they have entered a new

1972
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:20,440
Speaker 1: level of control where everything's being done to create the best,

1973
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:23,599
Speaker 1: movie the best, story to tell the best. Story AND

1974
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:26,040
Speaker 1: i bring that up here just because it feels like

1975
01:48:26,240 --> 01:48:30,679
Speaker 1: that's What tupac's entire life was, like just at every,

1976
01:48:30,760 --> 01:48:35,000
Speaker 1: turn doing the most, interesting the most, dramatic the most,

1977
01:48:35,040 --> 01:48:39,439
Speaker 1: scary the most funny, thing just doing research for. This

1978
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:43,200
Speaker 1: but even at the, time it was just like twists

1979
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:49,000
Speaker 1: and turns and you, know dramatic shit happening every other.

1980
01:48:49,160 --> 01:48:51,720
Speaker 1: Week in a way that like it feels like reality

1981
01:48:51,760 --> 01:48:56,760
Speaker 1: is cooperating with him to write the Great american novel

1982
01:48:57,000 --> 01:48:59,920
Speaker 1: into his. Life like from the time he's in his

1983
01:49:00,120 --> 01:49:04,960
Speaker 1: mother's belly and she's defending herself Against Cohen telpro and

1984
01:49:05,080 --> 01:49:08,800
Speaker 1: successfully doing. It like, like you could not write that,

1985
01:49:08,840 --> 01:49:12,800
Speaker 1: shit it would be too far Fet so, ANYWAYS i

1986
01:49:12,880 --> 01:49:16,400
Speaker 1: just wanted, to you, know as a, fan like this

1987
01:49:16,479 --> 01:49:19,120
Speaker 1: is WHAT i fell in love with about his career

1988
01:49:19,200 --> 01:49:22,040
Speaker 1: as a as a, teenager you, know as A i

1989
01:49:22,040 --> 01:49:25,000
Speaker 1: GUESS i was twelve or thirteen when he. Passed was

1990
01:49:25,120 --> 01:49:28,240
Speaker 1: very sad to learn speaking of people passing during the

1991
01:49:28,240 --> 01:49:31,519
Speaker 1: research of this, episode the shock g the one who

1992
01:49:31,600 --> 01:49:33,920
Speaker 1: put the satin on your, panties the man who gave Us,

1993
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:37,800
Speaker 1: humpty and the person who really like in doing research for,

1994
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:40,800
Speaker 1: this seems like you really Loved, tupac Gave tupac a

1995
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:46,120
Speaker 1: lot of like artistic support that he shokg recently died

1996
01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:48,400
Speaker 1: of a drug overdose a few years back In, Florida

1997
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:51,920
Speaker 1: so rip to one of the. Greats we do end

1998
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:54,439
Speaker 1: up talking a lot about drugs on These icon, episodes

1999
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:58,200
Speaker 1: BUT i don't mean to glorify them in any. WAY

2000
01:49:58,240 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 1: i find, it you, Know I'M I i'm ten years.

2001
01:50:01,400 --> 01:50:06,400
Speaker 1: SOBER i do find it interesting because it's a part

2002
01:50:06,439 --> 01:50:10,120
Speaker 1: of these people's stories that usually gets written out of

2003
01:50:10,479 --> 01:50:14,080
Speaker 1: the official. ACCOUNT a lot of the, time especially in

2004
01:50:14,240 --> 01:50:17,799
Speaker 1: The United, states but, yes they can have, horrible horrible.

2005
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:21,320
Speaker 1: Consequences one detail that had always gotten left out of his,

2006
01:50:21,400 --> 01:50:25,680
Speaker 1: story his mom goes from being this, massive you, know

2007
01:50:25,800 --> 01:50:30,400
Speaker 1: celebrity for defending herself and getting you, know the panthers,

2008
01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:33,639
Speaker 1: off to their family being out on the. Street tupac

2009
01:50:33,720 --> 01:50:39,320
Speaker 1: basically described that as like polite society moving on in the, eighties,

2010
01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:43,679
Speaker 1: essentially like he was just like the political tides, turned

2011
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:47,080
Speaker 1: and you, know we're In Reagan's america and nobody wants

2012
01:50:47,120 --> 01:50:52,200
Speaker 1: to have a black panther speaking at their event or you,

2013
01:50:52,240 --> 01:50:56,240
Speaker 1: know sleeping on their couch. Anymore AND i do think

2014
01:50:56,280 --> 01:51:01,160
Speaker 1: that that's important context for why he is and impressed by,

2015
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:04,160
Speaker 1: celebrity or at least he wasn't going to you, know

2016
01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:08,479
Speaker 1: change who he was or what he, said because you,

2017
01:51:08,479 --> 01:51:11,080
Speaker 1: know he had this fame and he was afraid of losing.

2018
01:51:11,120 --> 01:51:14,400
Speaker 1: It like that didn't impress him. Much to Quote Shania,

2019
01:51:14,479 --> 01:51:16,679
Speaker 1: twain AND i feel like that gave him the ability

2020
01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 1: to have political takes that now seem decades ahead of their.

2021
01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:24,320
Speaker 1: Time during the research for, THIS i just again kept

2022
01:51:24,360 --> 01:51:27,840
Speaker 1: imagining a version of history where he's still alive for

2023
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:31,599
Speaker 1: the past ken fifteen. YEARS i really think he would

2024
01:51:31,640 --> 01:51:35,880
Speaker 1: have become important. Politically he was already making the points

2025
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:39,240
Speaker 1: everyone was making in twenty, twenty but he was making

2026
01:51:39,240 --> 01:51:43,479
Speaker 1: them in the early. Nineties you. Know he said his

2027
01:51:43,560 --> 01:51:45,479
Speaker 1: mom raised him to believe he was the Black prince

2028
01:51:45,479 --> 01:51:49,760
Speaker 1: of The, revolution and that's how he lived his. Life

2029
01:51:50,439 --> 01:51:54,599
Speaker 1: not a detail but a joke THAT i had WHEN

2030
01:51:54,760 --> 01:51:58,520
Speaker 1: i was talking About shug Saving tupac from the riptide

2031
01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:02,880
Speaker 1: In cabo and everyone was having a hard time imagining.

2032
01:52:03,600 --> 01:52:07,960
Speaker 1: That imagining sugar, Swimming brian The editor wrote in the

2033
01:52:08,040 --> 01:52:10,880
Speaker 1: chat that it was probably like if you've ever seen

2034
01:52:10,920 --> 01:52:14,439
Speaker 1: a hippo kind of run swim through a river where

2035
01:52:14,439 --> 01:52:17,320
Speaker 1: they're just like kind of bouncing off the. BOTTOM i

2036
01:52:17,400 --> 01:52:20,320
Speaker 1: did not see that in the chat until we had stopped,

2037
01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:23,000
Speaker 1: recording but that was very. Funny AND i do feel

2038
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:26,800
Speaker 1: Like Suge knight is probably like incredibly dense and like

2039
01:52:26,840 --> 01:52:29,599
Speaker 1: that's how he makes his way through the. Water and

2040
01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:33,080
Speaker 1: THEN i do just want to put it to the.

2041
01:52:33,160 --> 01:52:37,320
Speaker 1: LISTENER i want to hear from you. Guys so we

2042
01:52:37,400 --> 01:52:39,719
Speaker 1: talked about how the role OF O doug And menace

2043
01:52:39,720 --> 01:52:43,720
Speaker 1: to society was not written for, him BUT i think

2044
01:52:43,800 --> 01:52:46,880
Speaker 1: that was, like what the conflict was? Like tupac was, like,

2045
01:52:46,920 --> 01:52:50,720
Speaker 1: well don't put me in here as this less interesting.

2046
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:54,080
Speaker 1: Character AND i do really think like as good As

2047
01:52:54,160 --> 01:52:57,559
Speaker 1: Lauren's tate is In menace To, society Like tupac would

2048
01:52:57,600 --> 01:53:01,600
Speaker 1: have been. Transcendent but that does that did get me

2049
01:53:01,680 --> 01:53:04,400
Speaker 1: thinking because we also kept saying that he probably wins

2050
01:53:04,439 --> 01:53:07,439
Speaker 1: An oscar if he doesn't, die what movie would it

2051
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:12,720
Speaker 1: have been? FOR i put that to you the, listener you, know,

2052
01:53:13,240 --> 01:53:16,600
Speaker 1: like Could Training day in two thousand and one have

2053
01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:21,320
Speaker 1: made sense either? Role you, know BECAUSE i Think Ethan

2054
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:26,400
Speaker 1: hawk was nominated for his role as. WELL i think

2055
01:53:26,439 --> 01:53:29,639
Speaker 1: he would have been awesome in either, role which says

2056
01:53:29,640 --> 01:53:32,280
Speaker 1: something about his. Range BUT i, yeah pitch me your

2057
01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:36,160
Speaker 1: Best tupac role we missed out on because he. DIED i,

2058
01:53:36,160 --> 01:53:39,920
Speaker 1: mean one that ties into his story really well Is

2059
01:53:39,960 --> 01:53:43,599
Speaker 1: Fred hampton And judas and The Black messiah or maybe

2060
01:53:43,920 --> 01:53:47,880
Speaker 1: The judas. Character one that like popped into my head

2061
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:50,840
Speaker 1: Was leo in One battle after another as like sort

2062
01:53:50,880 --> 01:53:53,120
Speaker 1: of a washed up. REVOLUTIONARY i feel like they're about

2063
01:53:53,160 --> 01:53:55,519
Speaker 1: the same. Age SO i don't. KNOW i want to

2064
01:53:55,560 --> 01:53:57,840
Speaker 1: hear your. PITCHES i feel LIKE i haven't landed on

2065
01:53:57,880 --> 01:54:00,880
Speaker 1: the right one just. Yet but let me, know what's

2066
01:54:00,960 --> 01:54:04,759
Speaker 1: the movie That tupac would have won his oscar For Hetty.

2067
01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:09,719
Speaker 1: Survive that's gonna do it for The tupac. Episode we're

2068
01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:15,160
Speaker 1: back next week with another, icon another one who went

2069
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:21,560
Speaker 1: on an incredible tear of just making drug fueled classics

2070
01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:25,960
Speaker 1: despite being probably maybe the nerdiest person that we've covered

2071
01:54:26,040 --> 01:54:28,479
Speaker 1: yet on this, show and that's saying something because we

2072
01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:32,400
Speaker 1: have Covered. Erkele we're back next week With Stephen, king

2073
01:54:32,640 --> 01:54:33,600
Speaker 1: and we will talk to you all.

2074
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:37,280
Speaker 2: Then, bye