WEBVTT - #558 Jason Flom with Antoine Day

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<v Speaker 1>I think we have the best legal system.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just the people that implement they get lost along

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<v Speaker 2>the way and forget.

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<v Speaker 1>What their job really is.

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<v Speaker 3>He just kept on trying to remind me that who

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<v Speaker 3>was in authority, who was in control, and how easy

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<v Speaker 3>it was for my body to be found in any

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<v Speaker 3>alley of New York City.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a tough prison when you have the guards going

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<v Speaker 4>against you because they are the biggest gang in the prison.

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<v Speaker 1>They do that.

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<v Speaker 2>They'll give a guy a life sentence and go home

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<v Speaker 2>in eat spaghetti like it was nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>And anybody that said, well, why would you confess to

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<v Speaker 3>something that you didn't do? My question to them will

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<v Speaker 3>be why wouldn't you confess when somebody's threatening to kill

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<v Speaker 3>your life?

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<v Speaker 2>The judge, he said, how you feel? I said, I'm okay.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, well, the days you're lucky day you're going home.

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<v Speaker 4>This is wrongful Conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with

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<v Speaker 4>Jason Flamm.

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<v Speaker 5>Today we have two guests and I feel really excited

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<v Speaker 5>about today's episode.

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<v Speaker 4>We have Antoine Day.

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<v Speaker 5>Antoine Day sixty years for murder, twenty five years for

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<v Speaker 5>attempted murder.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety two, Antoine Day was found guilty of

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<v Speaker 1>the murder of one man and attempted murder of another

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<v Speaker 1>outside a liquor store on Chicago's West Side.

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<v Speaker 4>Convicted in nineteen ninety two, exonerated in two thousand and two.

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<v Speaker 4>Antoine Welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, thanks for having me, And with Antoine, he brought

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<v Speaker 5>a luminary in the criminal justice reform movement. Laura Caldwell

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<v Speaker 5>and Laura is an accomplished author of many many books novels,

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<v Speaker 5>also professor at Loyola in Chicago and the found of

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<v Speaker 5>the Life After Innocence.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, Lai at Loyola University Chicago School of Law.

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<v Speaker 4>Got it.

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<v Speaker 5>But let's go back to the beginning. You came from Illinois, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, West side of Chicago.

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<v Speaker 5>And you were a musician, and you had some stuff

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<v Speaker 5>going on at the time that everything went haywire.

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<v Speaker 4>Right.

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<v Speaker 5>It was a murder that happened at a craps game,

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<v Speaker 5>right right. Two people shot Thomas Peters and James Coleman,

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<v Speaker 5>and Peters died and Coleman was wounded, and they're out

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<v Speaker 5>looking for the suspects.

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<v Speaker 4>How'd you get mixed up?

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<v Speaker 1>Well?

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<v Speaker 2>I got mixed up because you know, I didn't come

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<v Speaker 2>from that real cush community. You know, I come from

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<v Speaker 2>a very hard heart community, you know, the West side

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<v Speaker 2>of Chicago. Even right now, it's the top murder has

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<v Speaker 2>the top murder rate in.

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<v Speaker 4>The state and one of the top of the country.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, in the country. Yeah it is.

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<v Speaker 2>So I lived, as I live now in its same community,

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<v Speaker 2>and I also I work in the second largest murder

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<v Speaker 2>rate in the country in Lindale. So how it happened

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<v Speaker 2>was I was known in the community because I was

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<v Speaker 2>in the street. You know, I did some things in

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<v Speaker 2>the street. Today I wouldn't be so proud of. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, young kid, you know, you did some things,

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<v Speaker 2>and so you meet.

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<v Speaker 4>People, but not necessarily violent thing.

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<v Speaker 2>No, nothing violent, had nothing to do with violence. I

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<v Speaker 2>sold drugs, you know, I sold marijuana. I did what

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<v Speaker 2>most young guys my age do.

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<v Speaker 4>So okay, So you were I was known.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I was a musician.

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<v Speaker 2>We played all the community of fast concerts. We did

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of things. And I lived in the community,

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<v Speaker 2>but in this particular community I lived in. The guys

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<v Speaker 2>that actually got killed stayed only a block away from

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<v Speaker 2>my home from where I lived. He stayed the next

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<v Speaker 2>block over, and I didn't know them. They didn't know me,

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<v Speaker 2>so when the incident occurred, they said that it was

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<v Speaker 2>a black vehicle, so right away they tagged all the

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<v Speaker 2>black vehicles in the area. I had two black vehicles.

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<v Speaker 2>I had a station Wagon. I'm a car man, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I love cars. So I had a station Wagon that

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<v Speaker 2>was fixed up, and I had a Chevy Blazer that

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<v Speaker 2>was also fixed up. So these two cars stay parked

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<v Speaker 2>in front of my home. So when the police ran

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<v Speaker 2>an icing plate, they had my name. We had played

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<v Speaker 2>in New Orleans. It was raining really hard, so when

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<v Speaker 2>we came back that morning, it was a car to

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<v Speaker 2>my door. So I took the car to investigator's car,

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<v Speaker 2>Detective Connley, I think it was.

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<v Speaker 1>I called him. I said, you left a car to

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<v Speaker 1>my door for what.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, well, I want you to come in and

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<v Speaker 2>talk to me about some things that took place over

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<v Speaker 2>the weekend. I said, well, I wasn't here for the weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>So he had the conversay. He said, well, just come in.

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<v Speaker 2>He asked me what did I look like? I said,

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<v Speaker 2>what you mean, when do I look like? He said, so,

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<v Speaker 2>what are your features? Are you a big guy? Your

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<v Speaker 2>little guy? I'm like, why would you ask me that?

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<v Speaker 2>Shouldn't you be telling me you're looking for me. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not looking for you. Then he said, well, the story

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<v Speaker 2>was that you were, you know, about six' to two like.

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<v Speaker 2>Complex THEN i, said, no that's not. Me he, said

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<v Speaker 2>so you shouldn't have no.

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<v Speaker 4>Problem how tall are?

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<v Speaker 1>YOU i gotta be about five, ten probably used to be.

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<v Speaker 5>Taller you were number six, too and like, complected you

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<v Speaker 5>KNOW i like complected and, yeah so you didn't fit the.

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<v Speaker 2>DESCRIPTION i, didn't SO i thought maybe they just got my,

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<v Speaker 2>name so let me go. In so WHEN i went,

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<v Speaker 2>in he started asking me about my, car, said WHY

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<v Speaker 2>i have two? Vehicles is? Black so he went over

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<v Speaker 2>the thing with the. Car he asked, me had anybody

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<v Speaker 2>been driving the? Car?

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<v Speaker 1>Stant, no my cars haven't, moved been sitting all.

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<v Speaker 2>Week so you begin to ask me about DID i

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<v Speaker 2>know these particular.

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<v Speaker 1>People i'm saying, NO i don't. Know don't. FORGET i

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<v Speaker 1>took a lawyer in with.

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<v Speaker 4>ME i, mean let's adaly. This you were a thousand

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<v Speaker 4>miles away right when the thing.

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<v Speaker 5>Happened, right you didn't fit the description, Right but, still

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<v Speaker 5>growing up in that type of, environment you know that

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<v Speaker 5>the police are capable of pulling some thirty tricks, right And, chicago,

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<v Speaker 5>unfortunately is as infamous as, anywhere with all the scandals

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<v Speaker 5>that have happened, there very well.

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<v Speaker 4>Known so you.

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<v Speaker 5>Hired to learn, though because you're, thinking you, KNOW i

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<v Speaker 5>better BE i better just take every say. Exactly so

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<v Speaker 5>you hired this lawyer and then tell us the.

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<v Speaker 2>Story i've never been one to trust the police, anyway

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<v Speaker 2>because they've done a lot of things in the. Past

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<v Speaker 2>SO i KNEW i should maybe take this lawyer in with.

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<v Speaker 1>Me SO i called.

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<v Speaker 2>Him he, said, SURE i, come and you, KNOW i, said,

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<v Speaker 2>MAN i just to make sure this go. Right you,

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<v Speaker 2>KNOW i KNOW i haven't done, anything SO i want

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure this goes. Right he, said, okay he comes.

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<v Speaker 2>In he came to my mom's, house met me at

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<v Speaker 2>my mother's, house and we went to the police.

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<v Speaker 4>Stay how far is that maybe two.

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<v Speaker 2>Miles So i'm sitting in the interview, room, well not

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<v Speaker 2>an interview. Room it's just a, room, big, big open,

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<v Speaker 2>space maybe sixty seventy chairs in this.

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<v Speaker 1>Room i'm sitting in a.

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<v Speaker 2>Chair it's another guy sitting in a, chair you, know

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<v Speaker 2>maybe ten feet away from. Me you, know we're just.

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<v Speaker 2>Talking we've been sitting there so. Long so now we

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<v Speaker 2>begin to. Talk i'm, like, MAN i don't know why

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<v Speaker 2>they got me. Here he said me.

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<v Speaker 1>Either. Man they brought me in here and just made,

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<v Speaker 1>me you, know sit.

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<v Speaker 2>Here i've been sitting there for the longest because he

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<v Speaker 2>was actually here BEFORE i, here and we were just

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<v Speaker 2>sitting there. Talking then the detective came. In he, said,

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<v Speaker 2>look are you willing to stand the? LINEUP i sent a?

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<v Speaker 2>Lineup so Now i'm looking for my. Lawyer, logical where's my?

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<v Speaker 2>Lawyer where was it for this?

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<v Speaker 1>Lineup? Right he was.

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<v Speaker 2>Gone he had left a message that he was going

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<v Speaker 2>to his daughter's birthday.

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<v Speaker 1>Party so he left me in the police.

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<v Speaker 4>Station and you paid him five thousand.

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<v Speaker 1>Dollars he got five grand out of me.

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<v Speaker 5>To drive you two. Miles that's like twenty five hundred.

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<v Speaker 5>Miles that's not not it's not bad, man that's, incredible you.

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<v Speaker 5>Know SO i Just i'm, SORRY i. Can't that's. CRAZY

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<v Speaker 5>i got to take him.

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<v Speaker 2>Pause how he got five thousand in the. Beginning let

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<v Speaker 2>me just MAKE i gave him twenty five. Hundred that

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<v Speaker 2>was going to the police, station, right and if anything

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<v Speaker 2>else had, occurred THEN i would have gave him the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of, it so and it. DID i guess that

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<v Speaker 2>was the part of the. Setup so now he gets

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<v Speaker 2>all his money if he leave and THEN i get.

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<v Speaker 2>Arrested SO i felt like it was from the beginning

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<v Speaker 2>it was a.

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<v Speaker 5>Setup so he had an incentive to get you, ARRESTED i. Believe,

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<v Speaker 5>so oh my, God, well, OKAY i mean that's because what.

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<v Speaker 1>Else could it.

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<v Speaker 2>Be he, Left he didn't even start his job to finish.

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<v Speaker 2>It so the start was to be there for questioning if,

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<v Speaker 2>anything the whole, conversation he wasn't, There.

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<v Speaker 4>So you're on your, own, right and then what.

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<v Speaker 5>HAPPENS i want to Bring laura into this conversation because

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<v Speaker 5>she's so familiar with all this kind of nons she

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<v Speaker 5>know better than. THAT i Think antoine's case is a

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<v Speaker 5>roadmap how not to do.

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<v Speaker 6>Things it's also a roadmap in a sense of what

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<v Speaker 6>happens when you're. Innocent when you're, innocent you're always happy

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<v Speaker 6>to talk to someone because, frankly you know you didn't do.

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<v Speaker 6>It but how smart to get a lawyer at least

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<v Speaker 6>before you do talk to someone on something you don't.

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<v Speaker 6>Know so that was such a smart. Move we usually

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<v Speaker 6>hear people go into the station all the. Time not

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<v Speaker 6>everybody's smart enough to bring a. Lawyer unfortunately for, him

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<v Speaker 6>the lawyer was very negligent and left and didn't come.

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<v Speaker 1>Back they then put.

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<v Speaker 6>Him in a lineup and the two gentlemen he was

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<v Speaker 6>sitting with the cops actually we now, know said go

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<v Speaker 6>ahead and pick that gentleman. Out later one of them quickly,

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<v Speaker 6>recanted so its not that, guy but it was too.

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<v Speaker 6>Late they've been identified and Off antoine.

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<v Speaker 2>Was so you got to remember these two. Guys both

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<v Speaker 2>of these guys was heroin, addicts you. Know and the

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<v Speaker 2>one GUY i think Was coleman who said he, said,

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<v Speaker 2>man they KNEW i was a dope thing when they arrested.

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<v Speaker 1>Me he, SAID i would.

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<v Speaker 2>Say my mother Killed kennedy if they had made me do.

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<v Speaker 2>It you, know he said. That because this guy came

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<v Speaker 2>to court and he. Apologized coleman is the only one who. Apologized,

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<v Speaker 2>well both of them came to court and admitted why

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<v Speaker 2>they lied because the police had arrested, them these same

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<v Speaker 2>two guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Before, see they had a history with these same.

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<v Speaker 2>Detectives so it kind of weigh, out you, know once

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<v Speaker 2>you start your investigation and you really get to see

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<v Speaker 2>how they're.

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<v Speaker 5>Connected there's a really important thing that, happens or actually

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<v Speaker 5>doesn't happen during the, trial, right which is that now

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<v Speaker 5>that you've already been screwed over by the first, lawyer

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<v Speaker 5>now you get a second.

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<v Speaker 4>Lawyer the second one really, yea fucked you.

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<v Speaker 1>Over i'm also paid FOR i like what you said

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<v Speaker 1>that he really.

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<v Speaker 5>Did your attorney neglected to do things that a third

0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.720
<v Speaker 5>grader would have, done, right which, is he neglected to

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<v Speaker 5>call the witnesses who would have placed you elsewhere at

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<v Speaker 5>the time of the. Crime and he neglected to call the.

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<v Speaker 5>Victim there were two. Victims one of them was a.

0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:33.760
<v Speaker 5>Lie he couldn't call the dead, guy, right but the

0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:34.440
<v Speaker 5>living Guy.

0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:35.439
<v Speaker 4>Coleman.

0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:39.800
<v Speaker 5>Right he wanted to, testify, Right and sometimes guys don't

0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:43.280
<v Speaker 5>want to. Testify he wanted to. Testify so all this

0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.600
<v Speaker 5>idiot that was representing, you AND i say that in

0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.000
<v Speaker 5>the nicest possible.

0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Way don't be.

0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.000
<v Speaker 5>Nice all this guy would have had to do is

0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.360
<v Speaker 5>say your, honor like IN. Tv i'd like to bring

0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:59.719
<v Speaker 5>to the Stands James, coleman and Then, coleman who got

0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.360
<v Speaker 5>shot would have said that you weren't the, guy and

0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:03.959
<v Speaker 5>then you would have gone home and.

0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:04.719
<v Speaker 4>Let's talk about that for a.

0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.559
<v Speaker 5>Second so were you not able to say to your,

0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.160
<v Speaker 5>attorney hey, man call THE i.

0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:16.079
<v Speaker 2>DID i said, it AND i had people getting and

0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.520
<v Speaker 2>gathering the witnesses. People that was actually that he goes

0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.840
<v Speaker 2>to a crime scene so long after the incident and

0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.880
<v Speaker 2>couldn't find. Anybody he went into the liquor store asking

0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.600
<v Speaker 2>questions about inside of a liquor. Store now keep in

0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.440
<v Speaker 2>mind that they said that this was actually going to

0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.840
<v Speaker 2>be a stick up. Murder they said THAT i was

0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:40.480
<v Speaker 2>robbing a dice game AND i saw these two guys

0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.160
<v Speaker 2>WHO i had some issues, with and begin to.

0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:44.959
<v Speaker 1>Shoot this is what they.

0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Said my intention was to rob a dice, game a

0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:52.400
<v Speaker 2>two dollars dice, game which was a, JOKE a.

0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.760
<v Speaker 4>Two dollar dice. Game, yeah and you had two.

0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.640
<v Speaker 2>CARS i had two, cars, buildings and a lot of other.

0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Stuff so these people say.

0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.040
<v Speaker 2>They really didn't need four, hours, RIGHT i really didn't

0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.199
<v Speaker 2>a two dollars dice. Game so he said that this

0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:10.680
<v Speaker 2>was the reason for the. Shooting so when they came

0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.680
<v Speaker 2>back to me with the explanation of WHY i supposed

0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.680
<v Speaker 2>to shot these two, Guys James coleman had always, said

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.640
<v Speaker 2>you wasn't the, guy he, said AND i told him.

0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:22.840
<v Speaker 1>That he, said but, MAN i was. Sick you.

0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.360
<v Speaker 2>KNOW i had a conversation with, him and he said

0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:27.640
<v Speaker 2>THAT i was. SICK i talked to this man on the,

0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:31.800
<v Speaker 2>phone you, know a whole lot of. Times and he

0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.600
<v Speaker 2>even went to my, mother's to my parents' house and

0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.040
<v Speaker 2>told my mom THAT i lied on. Him for that,

0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.760
<v Speaker 2>reason he, said AND i need to straighten it. Out

0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:42.880
<v Speaker 2>he just couldn't get hisself, together and he said it

0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.839
<v Speaker 2>also in, court say his life had really fell apart

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.640
<v Speaker 2>because he knew he lied on. Me but then the other,

0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:53.520
<v Speaker 2>guy the real, girly his intention was. Money his family

0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.480
<v Speaker 2>wanted me to pay. Them if you give us THIS x.

0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 1>Amount of, dollars we'll walk. Away we won't even show up.

0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.959
<v Speaker 5>In court because was originally a witness against, you, Right

0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 5>and then he was ready to testify at the, trial

0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.040
<v Speaker 5>and he had, lied.

0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.040
<v Speaker 4>RIGHT i just want to make that clear to the.

0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.800
<v Speaker 5>Audience so ultimately you had an, option WHICH i find

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.120
<v Speaker 5>is an interesting. Thing, Right so your co defendant chose

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.440
<v Speaker 5>to be tried by a jury and you chose to

0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:17.000
<v Speaker 5>be tried by a.

0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Judge let's talk about, that because when we went into the.

0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:22.679
<v Speaker 1>COURTROOM i kind.

0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Of felt that this judge wasn't the JUDGE i. WANTED

0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.959
<v Speaker 2>i didn't want a bench. TRIAL i never wanted a bench.

0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Trial the attorney wanted a bench. TRIAL i wanted to pick,

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.640
<v Speaker 2>twelve but he denied me a jury. Trial he told

0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.199
<v Speaker 2>me THAT i waited too late to.

0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Pick a jury. Trial the judge tell you the judge.

0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.040
<v Speaker 2>Did he, said we waited too late to pick a jury,

0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:45.880
<v Speaker 2>trial AND i wanted.

0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:47.679
<v Speaker 1>TWELVE i never trusted the.

0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.120
<v Speaker 4>Judge or is that a?

0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.520
<v Speaker 6>Thing you are supposed to demand trial by jury when

0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.920
<v Speaker 6>you file your answer when you. APPEAR i don't know

0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:57.880
<v Speaker 6>if he failed to do. That if he did that

0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.200
<v Speaker 6>alone is. Malpractice but what you do is you routinely

0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:03.839
<v Speaker 6>ask for a jury and then if later you want

0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.000
<v Speaker 6>to switch to a bench you can. So either he

0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.080
<v Speaker 6>didn't ask for it early on we never.

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Could seess that.

0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.760
<v Speaker 6>Out or he thought the judge would be good for

0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.320
<v Speaker 6>them and then counseled him. Incorrectly but in any, event

0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.120
<v Speaker 6>he counseled him against his wishes and against what would

0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 6>have been hopefully a much better outcome with twelve people

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:23.320
<v Speaker 6>and minds.

0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 2>YOU i walked into the police. Station they had to

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.880
<v Speaker 2>run this guy. Down the guy is inconcrated right now

0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 2>for the. Murder they had to run him. Down they found.

0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Him which guy you talking? About my co, defendant, Right?

0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay who they made my co. DEFENDED i don't like

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.040
<v Speaker 2>claiming him BECAUSE i didn't even know this.

0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Guy but they found him.

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Later he found him later on and arrested him and

0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.480
<v Speaker 2>brought him. In so Now i'm demanding a separate. Trial

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.400
<v Speaker 2>but they tried us just the same. Time SO i

0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:55.040
<v Speaker 2>felt my rights was BECAUSE i almost took. OVER i

0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Know i'm not an, attorney BUT i got good common.

0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 2>SENSE i don't want to sit at the table with this,

0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.200
<v Speaker 2>guy and he is the. Shooter so Now i'm sitting

0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.880
<v Speaker 2>at the. Table so what he Did he simultaneously tried

0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.720
<v Speaker 2>us in the same, day the same court with the same.

0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.680
<v Speaker 4>People, yeah that seems.

0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 5>Crazy so you end up getting convicted and being sent

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 5>to a really scary.

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Place oh, Yeah pontiac prison guards to tell you welcome To.

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.160
<v Speaker 2>Pontiac in fifteen, minutes you had your own personal.

0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 4>Shak your own personal, Shak, yeah.

0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 1>And you had.

0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.520
<v Speaker 2>It place was full of blood already when you walked

0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.960
<v Speaker 2>through those big doors slide, open AND i ain't never

0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>been in prison.

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.120
<v Speaker 1>Before, man it was it was.

0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 5>SHOCKING i read that there were three hundred and sixty

0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.080
<v Speaker 5>incarcerated men in the prison at that time in five.

0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Guards, yeah in one, building.

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 4>In one, building yeah.

0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 5>YEAH i mean that doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.120
<v Speaker 5>EITHER i mean one building and the guards had automatic,

0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 5>weapons and there were bullet, holes and there was a

0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.840
<v Speaker 5>sign that said gud rapped to the ground if bullets are.

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 5>Fired whee that sign where you, like AM i in a?

0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:03.200
<v Speaker 4>War?

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that's What that's what it. Was you can be

0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 2>on the yard in five seconds and watch somebody get.

0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.840
<v Speaker 2>Stabbed that's the reason they tell you if you go,

0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:12.400
<v Speaker 2>down drop to the, ground.

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.800
<v Speaker 5>Because then they're gonna start to. Shoot being vastly outnumbered

0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.240
<v Speaker 5>as the guards, were that's their last, recourse. RIGHT i

0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.520
<v Speaker 5>mean that's a tough job. TOO i, MEAN i, mean just.

0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.440
<v Speaker 2>For the sake of knowing what exactly, happens you, know

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.600
<v Speaker 2>BECAUSE i know they. Exaggerated so those guards are not

0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.720
<v Speaker 2>moving three hundred guys at one. Time in the, salehouse

0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.120
<v Speaker 2>you move only a section at a, Time so you

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.120
<v Speaker 2>might see thirty, guys two, guards one in the, front

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.440
<v Speaker 2>one in the, back and then the guy own with

0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 2>the rifle that's gonna knock your brains, out And pontiac is.

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 5>Held, well you were in lockdown sometimes twenty four hours a.

0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.280
<v Speaker 5>Day yeah, RIGHT i mean there was a. Month there

0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:49.920
<v Speaker 5>was a month where you were never let out of your.

0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:53.240
<v Speaker 5>CELL i, mean it's incredible that you have any mental,

0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 5>faculties you, know preserved after.

0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 2>That it was more than a. Month they used to

0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.920
<v Speaker 2>lock us, down The pontiac for a. Year lock you, down.

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:02.160
<v Speaker 4>So no, shower no.

0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.120
<v Speaker 5>Nothing you get a shower once a, week and other

0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:06.399
<v Speaker 5>than that you're locked down twenty a.

0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.800
<v Speaker 4>Week, yeah twenty four seven in yourself with someone, else.

0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.000
<v Speaker 2>With someone else and the, toilet and EVERY i mean

0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.280
<v Speaker 2>every day they would lock you. Down if an incident,

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.399
<v Speaker 2>occurred somebody got, stabbed they lock you.

0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Down you'd be locked up six.

0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Months they let you off two, days somebody else get,

0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 2>hit they lock you up another six.

0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Months And i'm talking about complete.

0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Lockup pontiac was held because it was like it was

0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.800
<v Speaker 2>almost like a, supermax but it was one of the

0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 2>roughest max joints In. Illinois and every day you see

0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:43.000
<v Speaker 2>either someone getting, raped somebody getting, stabbed somebody getting beat

0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.560
<v Speaker 2>half to death or somebody getting shot by the. Guards that's,

0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Insane and then you talk about the. TRAUMA i watched

0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:51.240
<v Speaker 2>the man in front of my. CELL i had just

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.439
<v Speaker 2>finished working. OUT i came in to get in the

0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.480
<v Speaker 2>shower and the guard was telling him to put his hands,

0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.080
<v Speaker 2>down and he was talking with his, hands and he

0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.280
<v Speaker 2>shot him so. Fast you just see the blood, jump

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.359
<v Speaker 2>like from the first floor to the third.

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Floor he hit him so fast and.

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.080
<v Speaker 4>Killed the man instantly because he was talking on his.

0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.919
<v Speaker 2>Hands, yeah you, know because potential. Violence you, know guys

0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.360
<v Speaker 2>do that when they're getting ready to do. Something so

0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.240
<v Speaker 2>these are the. SIGNS i guess he blew his brains.

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Out but this place is what you saw every. Day

0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:26.680
<v Speaker 2>either you, came you got up to go to work

0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.399
<v Speaker 2>in the. MORNING i used to leave out five in the.

0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.560
<v Speaker 2>MORNING i had an institutional, job SO i work all

0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 2>over the, penitentiary death, row protect the.

0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:34.919
<v Speaker 1>CUSTODY i work all over the.

0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Joint SO i get ready to leave out in the

0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.920
<v Speaker 2>morning AND i walk past the guy's sell he's hanging, there.

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:42.199
<v Speaker 1>Just hanging. There you.

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 2>KNOW i used to see so much of it you

0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:46.960
<v Speaker 2>become numb to. It and that's a shame.

0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.280
<v Speaker 5>And the scene you're describing Makes Shaw Shank redemptions sound

0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:50.960
<v Speaker 5>like A disney.

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 4>MOVIE i, mean it's just it. Was, yeah it's as

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:55.040
<v Speaker 4>bad as it.

0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 5>Gets, yeah it's so bizarre that we have it absolutely,

0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:05.879
<v Speaker 5>wrong absolutely. Backwards and In Western european countries and In

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:07.240
<v Speaker 5>scandinavian countries and.

0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 4>All over the world they take the opposite.

0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.119
<v Speaker 5>Approach their thing is when you get, out you're going

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.520
<v Speaker 5>to have to live next door to, somebody maybe. Me,

0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.440
<v Speaker 5>Right so at one point a couple of good things. Happen,

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 5>Right you found sort of hope and sanity and music, again,

0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.760
<v Speaker 5>Right AND i thought that was a brave thing that you,

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.520
<v Speaker 5>did because there were at the time no musical instruments

0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.399
<v Speaker 5>in this prison hell whatever you want to call, it,

0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.480
<v Speaker 5>right and you were able to convince the, warden.

0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Superintendent kelly it was my, buddy.

0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.360
<v Speaker 5>Right so he at your behas he ordered some, instruments

0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.439
<v Speaker 5>and you got to put together a little band and

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.199
<v Speaker 5>get a little some kind of, JOY i, guess.

0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah because we had been on lockdown so much and

0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.159
<v Speaker 2>they had had some instruments they had it was.

0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.120
<v Speaker 1>Garbage So kelly.

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Had decided that if that would keep us peaceful around

0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:00.479
<v Speaker 2>a joint well ordered some more.

0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Instruments so he ordered some more.

0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Drums and guitars and, amps and it was called The

0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:10.199
<v Speaker 2>Power Soul, Band Our Soul Power Soul, Band and so

0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:12.399
<v Speaker 2>we played and most of the guys was in the

0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.240
<v Speaker 2>band had natural. Life so those guys are still locked.

0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.600
<v Speaker 2>Up so we had A we had a nice band,

0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.240
<v Speaker 2>man and the unit was good and it kept things kind.

0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 2>OF i, mean we didn't go on lock down for

0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:24.160
<v Speaker 2>like maybe a year and a.

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:25.439
<v Speaker 1>Half you, know it.

0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Was because guys wanted to get out when we. Performed

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.199
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to be, there they wanted to see. It you,

0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.840
<v Speaker 2>know it's like you going to a, party.

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.160
<v Speaker 5>Right so they had a reason and right to not

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.280
<v Speaker 5>want to be violent because if they, did they would

0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.919
<v Speaker 5>be depriving this little bit of, hope joy, music you,

0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.240
<v Speaker 5>know life distraction everyone to call. It it is important

0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:48.120
<v Speaker 5>for people to recognize we need to improve the, conditions

0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:52.439
<v Speaker 5>but also bring arts and bring education into the, prison

0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.040
<v Speaker 5>recognizing that ninety five plus percent of people in prison

0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:57.840
<v Speaker 5>are going to get out at some point and have

0:20:57.880 --> 0:20:58.439
<v Speaker 5>to rejoin the.

0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.800
<v Speaker 2>Community WHEN i was, LIKE i heard a politician, saying

0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:05.760
<v Speaker 2>why SHOULD i spend twenty thousand dollars on a convict

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:07.840
<v Speaker 2>to get an education WHEN i have to pay for

0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.160
<v Speaker 2>my sons and daughters to go to. School and they took,

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.320
<v Speaker 2>school they took the college because you suhould get a

0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.960
<v Speaker 2>bachelor's associated all kind of degrees in, prison and guys

0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.520
<v Speaker 2>come out and make a difference in their. Lives they'd

0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.200
<v Speaker 2>come out and do better than what they did when

0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 2>they went in because they was able to get a,

0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.919
<v Speaker 2>job come employed. Today it's not you come, out you just.

0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.199
<v Speaker 5>Out that's an extremely ignorant thing for the guy to,

0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.880
<v Speaker 5>say because if he had done any studying at, all

0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 5>he would know that in places where those kind of programs,

0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:42.040
<v Speaker 5>exist the people coming out have a tremendous rate of,

0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 5>success staying crime, free paying, taxes contributing to the, community

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:48.520
<v Speaker 5>reconnecting with, family.

0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 4>All those positive aspects of.

0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 5>Society so even if you're not looking at it from

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:53.040
<v Speaker 5>a human point of, view just looking at it from

0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.320
<v Speaker 5>a protecting and improving society point of, view the benefits

0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:01.560
<v Speaker 5>are immense and only the most maya pick and closed

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 5>minded individuals can see it any other. Way so music

0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:08.560
<v Speaker 5>came in to give a little something back to your, soul,

0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:10.879
<v Speaker 5>right give you a little bit of. Hope and then

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 5>you had sort of the guy you would call your, angel,

0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.199
<v Speaker 5>right sort of appear In, miraculous who was actually a

0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:18.960
<v Speaker 5>real estate.

0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:20.919
<v Speaker 1>Lawyer, right and he was an angel for.

0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:23.320
<v Speaker 4>Real so let's talk about. Him his name what was

0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.600
<v Speaker 4>his name of This Joseph howard Or Howard, Joseph Howard, Joseph,

0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.800
<v Speaker 4>right tell me about this, Guy Howard.

0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Joseph first of, all let me tell YOU i never

0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 2>admitted to ever being in love with a, man BUT

0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.440
<v Speaker 2>i love this, man. Right this is my Little jewish.

0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:41.520
<v Speaker 2>Love this is my. Man Howard joseph was an, angel you.

0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Know he came in and WHAT i liked about him

0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:46.879
<v Speaker 2>was he was, Bossy Like, lord he's, bossy, Right and

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.920
<v Speaker 2>he came in and one DAY i was working out

0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.520
<v Speaker 2>on the yard and he, said, man you got a,

0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:57.360
<v Speaker 2>visit so you gotta. VISIT i said a? Visit he, said,

0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 2>yeah your. ATTORNEY i ain't got no, attorney so, yeah

0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:03.359
<v Speaker 2>you got an. Attorney SO i. GO i go to

0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:06.160
<v Speaker 2>the front to the visiting, room and there he. Is

0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.960
<v Speaker 2>he's standing. There The jewish guy had on lorraine, coat

0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.639
<v Speaker 2>little flip, flops looking Like, colombo Remember.

0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Colombo and they come in and that's who he remind me.

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Of So i'm looking at him and so he, said

0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:22.320
<v Speaker 2>say that. Wine he, said, okay he's sitting. Down SO

0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:24.320
<v Speaker 2>i sat. Down i'm, like what's.

0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.000
<v Speaker 1>This old man telling me to? Say? Boston me?

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Around and he said sit, Down SO i sat. Down

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.680
<v Speaker 2>he Said i'm your. ATTORNEY i, said you my. Attorney

0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:34.560
<v Speaker 2>SO i was, like, yeah so this is a, joke,

0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Right i'm thinking it's a. Joke he, said, No i'm your.

0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Attorney he, said your sister and my son had been

0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 2>talking AND i read your, case he, said AND i

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 2>just need you to be. Patient we're going to get

0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:48.400
<v Speaker 2>you out of, here you. Know AND i just looked

0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:50.000
<v Speaker 2>at him like, this this has got to be a.

0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:55.640
<v Speaker 2>Joke so he drove three hours one way to come see,

0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 2>me and he was about seventy two, then and he

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:02.359
<v Speaker 2>drove back, home and he drove. Again he came again

0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:05.120
<v Speaker 2>AND i, said are you driving away down by? Yourself

0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:08.280
<v Speaker 2>he said, yeah give me a chance to. Think so

0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:10.880
<v Speaker 2>he would. Come people would laugh at. Him he, said

0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:12.440
<v Speaker 2>get you out of. Here SO i PUT i put

0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:15.080
<v Speaker 2>faith in that he'd ask for. Nothing he'dn't ask for,

0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:18.480
<v Speaker 2>anything you. KNOW i tried to pay for his gas

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:20.000
<v Speaker 2>and buying food and he's.

0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 4>Well he had a he had a phrase that he

0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:23.000
<v Speaker 4>would repeat to, you, right which.

0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:24.800
<v Speaker 1>Was that's when we made it to the county.

0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Jail oh, yeah he would every day he would, say

0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:28.080
<v Speaker 2>so you're ready to go.

0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:31.040
<v Speaker 1>HOME i, said of, Course i'm ready to go. Home he,

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:32.399
<v Speaker 1>said are you ready to go? Home you got some?

0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Clothes your mama bring you some. CLOTHES i said. No

0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:38.439
<v Speaker 1>so it went on for like two, years almost to that.

0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:40.639
<v Speaker 4>Day you guys had like a routine on.

0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Him, yeah we had a, routine.

0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.879
<v Speaker 2>MAN i MEAN i loved his heart because he was.

0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Consistent you, know he was a, man had no greed.

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Involved he didn't ask for. Anything he always told, me he,

0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 2>said nobody know your case better than you.

0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:55.199
<v Speaker 1>Do attention to.

0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.600
<v Speaker 4>It he was a real estate, lawyer, right actually he was.

0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:02.639
<v Speaker 2>A criminal attorney higher then he just did real. Estate got,

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:06.040
<v Speaker 2>it just did real estate for, years and so when

0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:08.240
<v Speaker 2>he saw my, case he wanted to get back in the.

0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:10.879
<v Speaker 2>Game he, said you would be my last, case AND i.

0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:12.440
<v Speaker 2>WAS i was actually his last.

0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:15.160
<v Speaker 5>Case it's kind of a, miracle, yeah actually, Right, yeah

0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:16.520
<v Speaker 5>he would just pop up out of nowhere AND i

0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:19.920
<v Speaker 5>could see why you thought you were being, punked so to, speak, right.

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:21.720
<v Speaker 1>He did punk, me he. Did he made me sit.

0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:26.080
<v Speaker 5>Down so ultimately your Little Jewish stardian angel appears on

0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:27.120
<v Speaker 5>the scene and.

0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:28.480
<v Speaker 4>He did what he said he was going to.

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:30.760
<v Speaker 5>Do he did because otherwise you wouldn't be sitting here

0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:34.360
<v Speaker 5>because you had your sentence was you had two sentences,

0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:36.440
<v Speaker 5>right for two different, crimes because.

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Murder temp, murder and they charged me with this arm

0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:44.840
<v Speaker 2>and the farm within the city limits by, felon they

0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:45.960
<v Speaker 2>gave me a temp.

0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:49.000
<v Speaker 5>Murder this was nineteen ninety, Two, antoine and you were

0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:51.720
<v Speaker 5>send sixty years for murder and twenty five years for attempted.

0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:54.640
<v Speaker 5>Murder so he came along just in the nicked time

0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:56.399
<v Speaker 5>because you weren't going to spend the rest of your

0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:58.159
<v Speaker 5>life in. Prison, yeah there was no doubt about. It

0:25:58.160 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 5>so ultimately he. Won and what did judge say when

0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:03.080
<v Speaker 5>when he vacated your?

0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 4>Conviction?

0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh, man the judge was, like, uh he asked me

0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:08.800
<v Speaker 2>IF i had any last, words you, know DID i

0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:09.280
<v Speaker 2>want to say?

0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Anything?

0:26:10.320 --> 0:26:12.320
<v Speaker 2>MAN i kind of went off in the courtroom BECAUSE

0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:15.080
<v Speaker 2>i told the, JUDGE i said the state's attorney knew

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:17.200
<v Speaker 2>all the time that they were lying on. Me he

0:26:17.280 --> 0:26:20.000
<v Speaker 2>knew all the time because he kept telling, me you

0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:22.440
<v Speaker 2>give us what we, want you can go. Home he

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:25.199
<v Speaker 2>knew all the. Time So judge, said miss. Day he,

0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:29.240
<v Speaker 2>said he, said how you. FEEL i, Said i'm. Okay he,

0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:33.080
<v Speaker 2>said well the days you're. Lucky day you're going. Home and,

0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:34.000
<v Speaker 2>MAN i, MEAN.

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:36.439
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't even, shocked you, know it was just LIKE

0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:37.639
<v Speaker 1>i was just standing.

0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:40.119
<v Speaker 5>There and what was what was YOUR i, Mean i'm

0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:42.480
<v Speaker 5>just trying to have this beautiful picture in my mind

0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 5>of you And.

0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:47.879
<v Speaker 2>Howard Mister, howard he just reachtove and hugged. Me you, know,

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:50.320
<v Speaker 2>well let me tell you this part before we get

0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:52.040
<v Speaker 2>to that good. Part let me tell you how the

0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:54.959
<v Speaker 2>state's attorneys treated. Him they used to laugh at. Him

0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:57.920
<v Speaker 2>state's attorney used to look at me while we're sitting

0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:00.440
<v Speaker 2>in the courtroom in his fancy. Suit mister how would

0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:02.880
<v Speaker 2>have on flip flops and they would laugh.

0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:03.439
<v Speaker 1>At him like he was a.

0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:06.280
<v Speaker 2>Joke they would laugh at him like, so the state's

0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:08.280
<v Speaker 2>attorney would sit back in his chair do this to.

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:11.040
<v Speaker 4>Me he's pulling his finger across his throat like you, know.

0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Like he's slashing my throat Like i'm, Dead ali, said

0:27:15.320 --> 0:27:15.920
<v Speaker 2>don't worry about.

0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:19.680
<v Speaker 1>HIM i got. Him he, Said i'm good with bullies

0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:20.400
<v Speaker 1>because they're.

0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Bullies at that, day you should have seen the expressions

0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:26.720
<v Speaker 2>on these guys. Faces they just couldn't believe that this

0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:28.240
<v Speaker 2>little man just beat them, up this.

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:29.159
<v Speaker 1>Bad the.

0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Wrong little, jew you, know and he cursed like a.

0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Seller so he was cursing all the while we were in.

0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:40.240
<v Speaker 2>Court he was mfing and all kinds of. Stuff he

0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:43.480
<v Speaker 2>just didn't play no. Games and this judge told, me you,

0:27:43.480 --> 0:27:46.840
<v Speaker 2>know he was, saying you've been blessed because this man

0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:47.520
<v Speaker 2>did his due.

0:27:47.560 --> 0:27:49.040
<v Speaker 1>Diligence he got me out of.

0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:51.679
<v Speaker 5>There i'm getting a chill right. Now so he's become

0:27:52.000 --> 0:27:55.680
<v Speaker 5>sort of a mythical. Figure he has a program named after,

0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:57.199
<v Speaker 5>Him oh, yeah In illinois and.

0:27:57.240 --> 0:27:59.120
<v Speaker 4>Stuff he's not around, anymore.

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Yes because his work is my.

0:28:02.359 --> 0:28:05.600
<v Speaker 5>Work his spirit lives on in you and also in

0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:23.920
<v Speaker 5>the program that's named after. Him, So, antoine the way

0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:28.399
<v Speaker 5>that you found out about your conviction being vacated is

0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:32.600
<v Speaker 5>a very. Unusual in, Fact i've never heard anything quite like.

0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:34.960
<v Speaker 4>It can you share that? Story me and a.

0:28:34.920 --> 0:28:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Guy Kenny.

0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Williams we were on the yard at In stateville actually

0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:41.800
<v Speaker 2>when he transferred me To stateville who was working out

0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 2>on the. Yard he was reading the newspaper that we're

0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:45.240
<v Speaker 2>not supposed to.

0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Have in the.

0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:49.719
<v Speaker 2>Newspaper it had my case had been. Overturned so this

0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:52.000
<v Speaker 2>guy Had he had called my name. OUT i thought

0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:54.480
<v Speaker 2>he was just. Joking he called my name out. Again

0:28:54.560 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 2>he was, like, man so you got to come see.

0:28:56.320 --> 0:28:58.480
<v Speaker 2>This SO i walked over and looked in the. Newspaper

0:28:59.120 --> 0:28:59.480
<v Speaker 2>it was like.

0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Wow SO i called my.

0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:04.040
<v Speaker 2>Attorney my attorney THOUGHT i was joking and he didn't

0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:06.280
<v Speaker 2>believe it because he didn't know anything about.

0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:07.640
<v Speaker 4>It was It April fools or.

0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Something it felt like.

0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:12.040
<v Speaker 2>It, Yeah so WHEN i told, him he went, crazy you,

0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 2>know he was like cursing me, out Thinking i'm.

0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:15.520
<v Speaker 1>Joking so he went and got the.

0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Paper he ran out of his, office walked and got the,

0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 2>paper came, back AND i called him.

0:29:19.680 --> 0:29:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Back he was, like it is they overturned the.

0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Case so he was trying to figure out how could

0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:29.080
<v Speaker 2>they possibly do this because time run at that moment

0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:32.239
<v Speaker 2>and you only have a certain amount of time to

0:29:32.280 --> 0:29:35.840
<v Speaker 2>meet it before you probably miss it and miss all

0:29:36.080 --> 0:29:39.680
<v Speaker 2>the pill. Processes so he went and got right on

0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:42.280
<v Speaker 2>top of it and then maybe like a year, later

0:29:42.360 --> 0:29:43.920
<v Speaker 2>they moved me back to the county.

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:47.440
<v Speaker 5>Jail now that's another, thing, Right so anyone listening would, Say,

0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:50.440
<v Speaker 5>okay well it's in the. Newspaper your conviction has been.

0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:54.160
<v Speaker 5>Overturned so wouldn't they want to send you home at that? Point,

0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:57.080
<v Speaker 5>no not exactly, right not In, chicago not at.

0:29:56.960 --> 0:30:00.880
<v Speaker 2>That, time not the processes of. Politics back to the county.

0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Jail so now you go, back and you go back

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:05.640
<v Speaker 2>in front of the. Judge he listened to the new,

0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:08.560
<v Speaker 2>evidence he listened to all this stuff that went. On

0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:11.600
<v Speaker 2>SO i was in the county jail for maybe a

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:14.280
<v Speaker 2>little over two. YEARS i was a. BARBER i was

0:30:14.280 --> 0:30:16.160
<v Speaker 2>cutting the hand in the county and working in a.

0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:20.960
<v Speaker 2>BARBERSHOP i was In division, eleven pretty, good, clean pretty white.

0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:22.920
<v Speaker 1>Building it was real neat and clean over.

0:30:22.960 --> 0:30:25.360
<v Speaker 2>There and they moved me one, night maybe like four

0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:30.000
<v Speaker 2>in the morning or am moved me To division. ONE

0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:32.480
<v Speaker 2>i didn't know. WHY i hadn't done, anything hadn't been

0:30:32.480 --> 0:30:35.960
<v Speaker 2>in no, trouble straight and narrow so far put me

0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:37.959
<v Speaker 2>in the cell with a. GUY i didn't know who

0:30:38.040 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 2>he was at the, time but my son was. Killed

0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:44.720
<v Speaker 2>he got killed in two. THOUSAND i came home two

0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:47.840
<v Speaker 2>thousand and. Two he was seventeen when they moved me

0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:51.040
<v Speaker 2>From division. Eleven they moved me To division, one and

0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 2>they put me in the cell with the guy that

0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:53.400
<v Speaker 2>actually killed.

0:30:53.440 --> 0:30:56.480
<v Speaker 4>Him they put you in the, cell, yeah putting the

0:30:56.520 --> 0:30:57.480
<v Speaker 4>guy who killed your.

0:30:57.520 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 5>Son and it wasn't a long. Time but this is re,

0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:06.120
<v Speaker 5>right press, right AND i mean my head is, exploding,

0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:09.280
<v Speaker 5>Right and they did this.

0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:12.440
<v Speaker 4>On, purpose, right because it was not a.

0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:15.200
<v Speaker 5>Coincidence and it's also strange that they did it at

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:17.360
<v Speaker 5>four in the, morning, right it's not the typical time

0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:19.360
<v Speaker 5>that they move. You and they've been moved for no

0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:23.600
<v Speaker 5>reason except there was a reason because from WHAT i

0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:26.080
<v Speaker 5>can figure, out they didn't like the fact that you

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 5>were going to get out and that you had proven them.

0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:33.560
<v Speaker 5>Wrong you and with the help of this magical seventy

0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:38.120
<v Speaker 5>something year old attorney who didn't dress right and was

0:31:38.160 --> 0:31:39.080
<v Speaker 5>being made by the.

0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:41.200
<v Speaker 4>Prosecutor so they didn't like.

0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:43.480
<v Speaker 5>That so that it sounds to me AND i hate

0:31:43.480 --> 0:31:47.080
<v Speaker 5>to think in terms that are so. Sinister but you

0:31:47.160 --> 0:31:49.840
<v Speaker 5>were a big guy back, then, Right you were bench

0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 5>pressing five hundred.

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:52.880
<v Speaker 1>POUNDS i was in the fire. Club we just called

0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:53.600
<v Speaker 1>the five hundred.

0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:56.960
<v Speaker 5>Club so they moved you to this, cell thinking this

0:31:57.040 --> 0:32:00.800
<v Speaker 5>guy meaning, you you're going to kill this other, guy BECAUSE.

0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 4>I mean it SEEMED i, mean of, course like.

0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:07.920
<v Speaker 2>WHAT i did recognize WAS i went back in my

0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:11.920
<v Speaker 2>head for a little while BECAUSE i remember WHEN i

0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:16.160
<v Speaker 2>was In, pontiac how the state's attorney had came and investigated,

0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:19.600
<v Speaker 2>me was asking all these questions around, me AND i

0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:21.960
<v Speaker 2>was never supposed to know that they were even, there

0:32:22.320 --> 0:32:25.760
<v Speaker 2>BUT i found, out and it was kind of this

0:32:25.840 --> 0:32:28.640
<v Speaker 2>made a little bit more familiar to what the process

0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:31.560
<v Speaker 2>was of them keeping me. Incocerated IF i catch another,

0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:34.760
<v Speaker 2>case then my appeal is non and. Void it's just

0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:38.800
<v Speaker 2>not gonna. Happen so they put me in this predicament

0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:40.920
<v Speaker 2>with this. Guy either he was going to kill me

0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:43.200
<v Speaker 2>OR i was gonna kill. Him it would have been

0:32:43.200 --> 0:32:46.280
<v Speaker 2>a lose lose situation for me to do something or

0:32:46.320 --> 0:32:49.160
<v Speaker 2>have something done to. Me, SO i, mean it's a chess.

0:32:49.200 --> 0:32:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Game they made their, moves SO i had to make.

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Mine my move was to call the guard and tell

0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:56.600
<v Speaker 2>THEM i refuse housing SO i can be taken out

0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:59.520
<v Speaker 2>of this. Situation you, know because at this, POINT i,

0:32:59.560 --> 0:33:00.720
<v Speaker 2>MEAN i got great common.

0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Sense i'm this close to. Home i'm not going to blow.

0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:06.840
<v Speaker 5>It even for the literally the most extreme situation you

0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:07.760
<v Speaker 5>can possibly find.

0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Yourself it wouldn't have did. Anything it wouldn't have brought them. Back,

0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:13.120
<v Speaker 2>no IF i had to beat them to a, pope

0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:16.200
<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't have brought him. Back so man of the,

0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.400
<v Speaker 2>matter you, know it's just at a point you just

0:33:18.440 --> 0:33:20.240
<v Speaker 2>have to think about the future.

0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:23.760
<v Speaker 5>Now that that's an incredible it's a mind blowing. Story

0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:25.080
<v Speaker 5>AND i never shared this.

0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Story so if people don't even know about, this you

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:29.760
<v Speaker 2>seem to get all getting it all out of me.

0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Today know what going on around?

0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:34.240
<v Speaker 4>Here none of us could possibly. Understand nobody that hasn't

0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:34.520
<v Speaker 4>been doing that.

0:33:34.760 --> 0:33:37.360
<v Speaker 5>Understand but it's a miracle that you were able to

0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 5>resist an impulse that must have been as powerful as

0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:42.720
<v Speaker 5>any that anybody could.

0:33:42.720 --> 0:33:43.880
<v Speaker 4>Imagine but it, IS.

0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:46.000
<v Speaker 1>I, mean it's it's a. Thing you, Know.

0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:51.640
<v Speaker 2>I've always heard the term of feeling your blood. Boil you,

0:33:51.680 --> 0:33:53.080
<v Speaker 2>know how you just feel your body go to a

0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:55.920
<v Speaker 2>whole nother temperature that would be. It your ethers get

0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:59.959
<v Speaker 2>the rise and you get the. Sweating and that's WHY

0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:04.160
<v Speaker 2>i was going through BECAUSE i have told myself.

0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Over and over and over and over and over. Again

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:07.800
<v Speaker 1>IF i ever see, them What i'm going to do to?

0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:08.120
<v Speaker 4>Them?

0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:11.359
<v Speaker 2>Right you, know IF i ever because you always, talk

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:14.160
<v Speaker 2>you avenge your family and stand up for your, family

0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:18.000
<v Speaker 2>and when you put in these situations in this, circumstance you,

0:34:18.040 --> 0:34:20.480
<v Speaker 2>KNOW i always said that to, myself SO i had

0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:21.840
<v Speaker 2>to escalate.

0:34:22.400 --> 0:34:23.160
<v Speaker 1>Immediately you.

0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:25.960
<v Speaker 4>Know it's almost like who could blame? You you're in

0:34:26.160 --> 0:34:28.360
<v Speaker 4>year eight or nine of your wrongful.

0:34:28.640 --> 0:34:32.319
<v Speaker 5>Incarceration you've been through everything that they can throw at,

0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:35.160
<v Speaker 5>you and now you just lived through the worst thing

0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:36.600
<v Speaker 5>that a parent can go through is to lose a

0:34:36.680 --> 0:34:39.280
<v Speaker 5>child and then to be put in a tiny cell

0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:42.640
<v Speaker 5>with a. Guy but you're, right it wouldn't accomplish. Anything

0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:44.400
<v Speaker 5>but it's easy to say from here you didn't. Here

0:34:44.440 --> 0:34:47.280
<v Speaker 5>it's easy to. Say so this is SOMETHING i really

0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:51.560
<v Speaker 5>want to highlight because in twenty five years of doing,

0:34:51.600 --> 0:34:55.720
<v Speaker 5>this the first thing that people ask me almost every

0:34:55.800 --> 0:34:59.120
<v Speaker 5>TIME i tell a story like yours is do they get?

0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:02.080
<v Speaker 4>Compensated this? Man did this? Woman tell? Me they get?

0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:04.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah and you should see like the eyes are bugging,

0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:05.840
<v Speaker 5>out like you, know because if you if you're not

0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:07.960
<v Speaker 5>familiar with, this and a lot of people, aren't when

0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:10.360
<v Speaker 5>you first hear one of these, stories you get so. Shook,

0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:12.919
<v Speaker 5>right tell me they get, Paid tell me they get

0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:15.319
<v Speaker 5>something when they get. Out and you, KNOW i think

0:35:15.360 --> 0:35:17.799
<v Speaker 5>it's shocking to a lot of people to learn that

0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:22.400
<v Speaker 5>a lot of exgneries get, nothing, period full, stop end of. Story,

0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:25.319
<v Speaker 5>right they just have to go figure it out with

0:35:25.480 --> 0:35:28.920
<v Speaker 5>this twenty year gap or whatever it might. Be but

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:31.560
<v Speaker 5>even if you do get, paid because people see the

0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:34.680
<v Speaker 5>stories in the, paper sometimes somebody successfully sues for civil

0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:37.040
<v Speaker 5>rights violation or whatever it is and gets millions of,

0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:40.600
<v Speaker 5>dollars which they, deserve and still DOESN'T i don't know

0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:42.320
<v Speaker 5>too many people that would, say, OH.

0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:43.640
<v Speaker 4>I GOT i got a deal for.

0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:47.640
<v Speaker 5>You you're gonna do ten twenty years in the most dangerous,

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:50.400
<v Speaker 5>place one of the most dangerous places on, Earth like

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.080
<v Speaker 5>you literally be better off trying to find diamonds in

0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:57.080
<v Speaker 5>a river In africa with with crocodiles and, hippos then

0:35:57.120 --> 0:35:59.160
<v Speaker 5>you would be In pontiac. PRISON i don't know too

0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:00.759
<v Speaker 5>many people that would, say, Ye i'll take that. Deal,

0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 5>Yeah i'm gonna go do that ten years and give

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:03.840
<v Speaker 5>me the money at the.

0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:04.880
<v Speaker 4>End so that's out the.

0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:07.879
<v Speaker 5>Window but the fact is that even the people who

0:36:07.960 --> 0:36:11.839
<v Speaker 5>do get compensated have to wait an incredibly long, time

0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:14.239
<v Speaker 5>years and years to get their, money and in the

0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 5>meantime they're stuck in sort of a twilight. Zone, Right

0:36:18.400 --> 0:36:20.800
<v Speaker 5>and there's no better example than. YOURS i want to

0:36:20.840 --> 0:36:22.200
<v Speaker 5>talk about. THAT i want to hear it in your own.

0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:25.560
<v Speaker 5>Words the judge has just, said today's your lucky. Day

0:36:26.280 --> 0:36:29.400
<v Speaker 5>do you want to go? Home you And howard are, hugging,

0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:34.200
<v Speaker 5>right Mister. Howard and you didn't just walk out the. Door, No,

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:34.719
<v Speaker 5>no there was a.

0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Process, oh the process is.

0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Terrible so after The sokar, release it took me almost

0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:43.160
<v Speaker 2>eight hours to get out of, that if not more,

0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:46.120
<v Speaker 2>so they run you right back through the. Process SO

0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:49.680
<v Speaker 2>i had to go back down in this dungeon in

0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:52.480
<v Speaker 2>the bottom of the county. Jail in the, bottom it's

0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:55.840
<v Speaker 2>the last basement in the county. Jail so it's really

0:36:56.440 --> 0:37:00.560
<v Speaker 2>pipes and plumbing and rats and everything just in this, place,

0:37:00.640 --> 0:37:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Right and it's a room a little bigger than this,

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:07.520
<v Speaker 2>room and it's a pile of. Clothes so in these

0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:10.040
<v Speaker 2>pile of clothes used to close. Guys it's took off

0:37:10.200 --> 0:37:13.360
<v Speaker 2>coming in who slept in them maybe a week inside

0:37:13.400 --> 0:37:15.960
<v Speaker 2>one of these jails on the street and they make

0:37:16.040 --> 0:37:19.400
<v Speaker 2>you pick out some clothes out of this powder in order.

0:37:19.280 --> 0:37:20.880
<v Speaker 4>To walk out of, here and they haven't been.

0:37:21.040 --> 0:37:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Washed haven't been.

0:37:22.239 --> 0:37:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Washed oh, MAN i picked the biggest PIECE i could

0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:27.560
<v Speaker 2>so it wouldn't really be attached to. Me SO i

0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:30.480
<v Speaker 2>picked out a jigging, suit a black jigging suit with

0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:34.040
<v Speaker 2>a hood because the guard says raining outside real. Bad

0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:37.080
<v Speaker 2>SO i picked out it had a hood on. It

0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:40.920
<v Speaker 2>the suit LIKE i would extra. Large this suit had

0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:42.040
<v Speaker 2>to be a three x of four.

0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:44.880
<v Speaker 1>X it was so. Big the sleeves was hanging and

0:37:44.880 --> 0:37:45.600
<v Speaker 1>it stinks so.

0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:49.920
<v Speaker 2>BAD i mean reek of just, urine and you, know

0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 2>BUT i had no choice IF i wanted to stay

0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:56.319
<v Speaker 2>another day in the county, jail another two days in

0:37:56.360 --> 0:37:58.799
<v Speaker 2>the county, jail because you get lost in that system so.

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:02.239
<v Speaker 2>Easily SO i, said, No i'm gonna grab. Something SO

0:38:02.280 --> 0:38:04.319
<v Speaker 2>i grabbed that in the jigging pants.

0:38:04.719 --> 0:38:06.759
<v Speaker 4>And it held your nose, basically.

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Yes and just got used to. It you, KNOW i

0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:09.279
<v Speaker 1>just lived in.

0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:13.360
<v Speaker 5>Filth and the issue was that because it took hours

0:38:13.360 --> 0:38:17.040
<v Speaker 5>and hours for this process to, happen Mister, howard COULDN'T

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:21.400
<v Speaker 5>i like calling it Mister howard a legendary, too So

0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:24.320
<v Speaker 5>i'm picking up after. You so he wasn't able to, stay,

0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:26.840
<v Speaker 5>right he had another obligation of something he had to.

0:38:26.840 --> 0:38:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Go i'm, right so he went home to take care

0:38:30.600 --> 0:38:33.799
<v Speaker 2>of his. Wife but then we never know how long

0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:37.360
<v Speaker 2>you'll be. There he's not coming out in thirty, minutes twenty,

0:38:37.400 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 2>minutes you, know it's a. Process so, NO i didn't

0:38:40.640 --> 0:38:42.319
<v Speaker 2>want to make him, stay so he. Went he went,

0:38:42.360 --> 0:38:45.120
<v Speaker 2>home and at this, point nobody knew that this was

0:38:45.160 --> 0:38:47.319
<v Speaker 2>going to happen this, day so my family wasn't even,

0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:50.680
<v Speaker 2>there SO i just ended up just coming.

0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:54.120
<v Speaker 1>Out they FINALLY i put the clothes, on they put me.

0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Out they kept my forty three dollars and some eye.

0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:59.400
<v Speaker 5>Change, well your forty three dollars wasn't even. There it

0:38:59.440 --> 0:39:01.600
<v Speaker 5>was in a different, right so you had no ability

0:39:01.600 --> 0:39:04.880
<v Speaker 5>to access, that and they send you. Out what the

0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:08.040
<v Speaker 5>date of the release Was? May, right it Was may,

0:39:08.160 --> 0:39:10.719
<v Speaker 5>ninth But may is not. Exactly it's not warm at

0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:14.000
<v Speaker 5>night In may In, chicago so it's cold and, rainy.

0:39:13.840 --> 0:39:16.439
<v Speaker 1>Rainy, yeah and it's, Dark, yeah it's.

0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:19.279
<v Speaker 2>Dark AND i stood in the rain man for about three,

0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:22.279
<v Speaker 2>hours just, wondering trying to figure it. OUT i had

0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:26.120
<v Speaker 2>no money to get. HOME i had, nothing absolutely. Nothing

0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:29.439
<v Speaker 2>SO i was just standing, there soaking with freaking of

0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Old i've never experienced in my life until somebody pulled

0:39:33.840 --> 0:39:36.759
<v Speaker 2>up on me and, SAID i got one of my.

0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Buddies you, know he didn't even. Know he, Says so

0:39:39.920 --> 0:39:42.360
<v Speaker 2>what you're doing out? HERE i just broke? Out he,

0:39:42.400 --> 0:39:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Said so you need a, Ride so you, know guys

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:47.360
<v Speaker 2>quick to help you if you committed a, CROWN i.

0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:51.040
<v Speaker 6>Guess and this isn't just any street. Corner it's twenty

0:39:51.080 --> 0:39:54.640
<v Speaker 6>six in Cow so that is the hub of The

0:39:54.760 --> 0:39:57.840
<v Speaker 6>chicago criminal court. System it's the busiest court system in the.

0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:01.600
<v Speaker 6>World it's not in a great. Neighborhood during the, day everyone's,

0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:03.680
<v Speaker 6>saying be, careful be, careful be careful when you go out.

0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:06.640
<v Speaker 6>There he has not been in society for over a,

0:40:06.760 --> 0:40:10.200
<v Speaker 6>decade and he has walked out onto this dangerous street

0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:13.560
<v Speaker 6>corner without a bus, cart without AN, id without a,

0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:16.759
<v Speaker 6>phone without frankly much of an, identity and just there you.

0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Go will people get killed right in front of the.

0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:20.919
<v Speaker 2>Building he just had an incident a couple of weeks,

0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:23.720
<v Speaker 2>ago a guy got. Killed right with all this police

0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:25.680
<v Speaker 2>activity he gets murdered right on the.

0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:29.560
<v Speaker 5>Street it's so interesting and it's uplifting because at the

0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:32.480
<v Speaker 5>end of the, day randomly in the city the size Of,

0:40:32.560 --> 0:40:36.080
<v Speaker 5>chicago your friend happened to be driving, by, like, yo

0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:38.560
<v Speaker 5>what are you doing? Here and, LIKE i, mean that's

0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:40.359
<v Speaker 5>another little, miracle, Right but.

0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Well i'm, BLESSED i know.

0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:44.239
<v Speaker 5>That, Yeah, well that's an amazing thing for somebody to

0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:48.720
<v Speaker 5>say that's been through ten years inside the most horrific prison,

0:40:48.760 --> 0:40:50.800
<v Speaker 5>system nightmare for something he didn't.

0:40:50.800 --> 0:40:52.279
<v Speaker 4>Do but it's a great way to look at.

0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:54.720
<v Speaker 5>It and the fact, is it's almost like the energy

0:40:54.760 --> 0:40:57.640
<v Speaker 5>feel that Mister howard, created and then this guy was

0:40:57.840 --> 0:40:59.680
<v Speaker 5>sort of an extension of, that like your other guardian.

0:40:59.680 --> 0:41:05.040
<v Speaker 5>Angels but there's no planet on which we should allow

0:41:05.440 --> 0:41:09.360
<v Speaker 5>somebody to emerge from this what sort of an extra

0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:13.160
<v Speaker 5>fuck you right, here get out of, here smelling like

0:41:13.200 --> 0:41:16.279
<v Speaker 5>you just rolled around in the you, know in the,

0:41:16.320 --> 0:41:18.200
<v Speaker 5>gutter and then good luck not.

0:41:18.719 --> 0:41:20.319
<v Speaker 4>Even like not even good.

0:41:20.400 --> 0:41:22.279
<v Speaker 5>Luck, NO i, Mean i'll get the hell out right

0:41:22.320 --> 0:41:24.160
<v Speaker 5>and if you get, killed you because we don't care

0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:25.879
<v Speaker 5>about you before and we don't care about you. Now

0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:29.240
<v Speaker 5>i'm not saying they necessarily have to have a chariot

0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:32.800
<v Speaker 5>waiting for you with white horses or a golden thing or.

0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:34.239
<v Speaker 4>Whatever but a.

0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:37.399
<v Speaker 1>Bus ticket would have been. FINE a bus, TICKET a.

0:41:37.360 --> 0:41:38.719
<v Speaker 4>Phone, call, yeah that would have been.

0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Fun about a phone, call can somebody come give? Me

0:41:40.880 --> 0:41:43.600
<v Speaker 1>they don't give you any of, it they're not. RESPONSIBLE

0:41:44.480 --> 0:41:47.160
<v Speaker 1>a phone call would have been. Good phone, call, Great.

0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:03.839
<v Speaker 5>LAURA i want to turn to you because you have

0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:07.040
<v Speaker 5>a new book out WHICH i read AND i.

0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:10.040
<v Speaker 4>Love it's Called anatomy Of, Innocence thank.

0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:10.160
<v Speaker 1>You.

0:42:10.400 --> 0:42:15.320
<v Speaker 5>Yeah and in the, book you paired, exoneries Including, antoine

0:42:15.480 --> 0:42:19.719
<v Speaker 5>with legendary authors in order to tell their story in

0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:25.200
<v Speaker 5>a way that is particularly poignant and also really sort of.

0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:27.880
<v Speaker 5>Succinct so can you talk about that process BECAUSE i

0:42:27.920 --> 0:42:29.400
<v Speaker 5>love the book AND i hope everybody will check it.

0:42:29.400 --> 0:42:31.000
<v Speaker 4>Out anatomy Of, Innocence thank.

0:42:31.040 --> 0:42:31.160
<v Speaker 3>You.

0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:35.080
<v Speaker 6>Yeah it's Called anatomy Of, Innocence and we basically are trying,

0:42:35.120 --> 0:42:38.520
<v Speaker 6>to in, fact do what you're. Doing we're trying to

0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:42.200
<v Speaker 6>get inside the, mind inside the, soul behind the eyes

0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:46.640
<v Speaker 6>of someone who went through a wrongful. Conviction so we've

0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:50.880
<v Speaker 6>broken it down into. Stages the knock on the, door you,

0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:53.399
<v Speaker 6>know the first time you When antoine heard his, name

0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:56.399
<v Speaker 6>was getting batted. Around what do you do when you hear?

0:42:56.960 --> 0:43:01.319
<v Speaker 6>Guilty because every xonary thinks they'll here not guilty because

0:43:01.320 --> 0:43:04.520
<v Speaker 6>they can tell that the criminal justice system is not

0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:07.319
<v Speaker 6>working well because they're in it and they're. Innocent but

0:43:07.440 --> 0:43:09.719
<v Speaker 6>they all think they're hill not, guilty all of, them

0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:13.320
<v Speaker 6>and they hear. Guilty there's hearing all sorts of testimony

0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:16.880
<v Speaker 6>about yourself at, trial which isn't. True there's the walking

0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:20.000
<v Speaker 6>into prison for the first, time dealing with the crazies

0:43:20.000 --> 0:43:23.400
<v Speaker 6>that are in, there finding someone to get you, out

0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:26.960
<v Speaker 6>and then the fact that freedom is just the. Beginning

0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:29.759
<v Speaker 6>we wanted to show that sometimes they happen like, This

0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:31.840
<v Speaker 6>sometimes they happen like you see ON tv where you

0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:36.120
<v Speaker 6>see people outside holding up the, arms and other, Times

0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:38.719
<v Speaker 6>And antoine's is not the only Case i've heard of

0:43:38.880 --> 0:43:41.520
<v Speaker 6>about being released onto the street with. NOTHING i, mean

0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:42.879
<v Speaker 6>it's more frequent than.

0:43:42.920 --> 0:43:45.600
<v Speaker 4>Not it's just another bizarre aspect of the whole. Thing

0:43:45.800 --> 0:43:46.640
<v Speaker 4>so it is a bizarre.

0:43:46.719 --> 0:43:50.120
<v Speaker 6>Aspect and, frankly so many of these things are so.

0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:53.719
<v Speaker 6>Fortuitous and he said he feels. Lucky antoine, SAID i feel,

0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:56.399
<v Speaker 6>lucky AND i, think you, Know i've heard people say

0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:58.520
<v Speaker 6>that exoneries are the luckiest unlucky.

0:43:58.560 --> 0:43:59.560
<v Speaker 1>People AND i mean it was.

0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:03.160
<v Speaker 6>Strangey even WHEN i Met, ANTOINE i had taken another ex.

0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:06.040
<v Speaker 6>Hoonery antoine has been working in re entry since he got,

0:44:06.040 --> 0:44:10.360
<v Speaker 6>out AND i took another exonery to get services he

0:44:10.480 --> 0:44:13.960
<v Speaker 6>ran Into. Antoine antoine did not know he was an ex.

0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:17.400
<v Speaker 6>Hoonery Howard joseph had, died and he also didn't know

0:44:17.440 --> 0:44:20.040
<v Speaker 6>That illinois was one of the states that had, compensation

0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:23.000
<v Speaker 6>and he had about twenty eight days from the TIME

0:44:23.040 --> 0:44:26.240
<v Speaker 6>i met him to file or. Forever it's gone.

0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:27.160
<v Speaker 4>Forever hold your.

0:44:27.160 --> 0:44:30.359
<v Speaker 5>Piece so WHAT i took from the book also each

0:44:30.400 --> 0:44:33.040
<v Speaker 5>of those. Stories it's so. Fascinating, Again i'm getting the.

0:44:33.120 --> 0:44:36.399
<v Speaker 5>Chills you can't make these stories. Up and when you read,

0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:39.000
<v Speaker 5>them and when you read them written so beautifully by

0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:43.760
<v Speaker 5>such important literary figures as you have put together In

0:44:44.160 --> 0:44:47.239
<v Speaker 5>anatomy Of, NICs it's really it's a great experience reading the.

0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:50.160
<v Speaker 5>Book so tell us About life After, innocence because that's

0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:52.240
<v Speaker 5>a program you run At, loyola Right.

0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:55.719
<v Speaker 6>Life After innocence is a clinic At Loyola Chicago school Of,

0:44:55.800 --> 0:44:58.800
<v Speaker 6>law and we in fact have The Howard Joseph award

0:44:58.840 --> 0:45:03.000
<v Speaker 6>that we give every year in Mister howard's honor for

0:45:03.239 --> 0:45:07.600
<v Speaker 6>people who help the innocent without basically seeking compensation or.

0:45:07.640 --> 0:45:11.080
<v Speaker 6>Recognition so my law students AND i since two thousand

0:45:11.120 --> 0:45:14.279
<v Speaker 6>and nine have been representing x houneries to help them start. Over,

0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:18.520
<v Speaker 6>previously we did a lot. More when we started in

0:45:18.520 --> 0:45:20.680
<v Speaker 6>two thousand and, nine one or two people got out

0:45:20.680 --> 0:45:23.160
<v Speaker 6>a year in THE. Us now it's three a. Week

0:45:23.440 --> 0:45:26.720
<v Speaker 6>so now we're focusing primarily on criminal records, relief getting

0:45:26.760 --> 0:45:29.160
<v Speaker 6>their records, cleared because what most people don't know is

0:45:29.200 --> 0:45:31.880
<v Speaker 6>that When antoine walked, out even though his case had been,

0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:34.480
<v Speaker 6>overturned when he got pulled over by the, cops it's

0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:37.960
<v Speaker 6>still a convicted. Murderer so till someone goes in and

0:45:38.040 --> 0:45:40.640
<v Speaker 6>gets your record cleaned, up it's still on your. Record

0:45:40.840 --> 0:45:43.080
<v Speaker 6>doesn't matter even IF dna showed who it really, was

0:45:43.560 --> 0:45:46.080
<v Speaker 6>still on your. Record so we get that cleaned up

0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:49.200
<v Speaker 6>and then we push for, legislation which we've been successful

0:45:49.239 --> 0:45:52.440
<v Speaker 6>on so slowly we're adding to the services that ex

0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:53.200
<v Speaker 6>houneries get In.

0:45:53.239 --> 0:45:54.799
<v Speaker 4>Illinois that's incredible.

0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:58.240
<v Speaker 5>Work AND i also want to just touch on Briefly Joseph,

0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:00.719
<v Speaker 5>howard who now has the award made. Death you can't

0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:02.440
<v Speaker 5>see it on the, radio AS i always, say But

0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:05.399
<v Speaker 5>i've been Watching antoine's body, language and every time this

0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:08.640
<v Speaker 5>man's name comes, up he sort of sits up straight

0:46:08.760 --> 0:46:13.279
<v Speaker 5>and starts smiling. Uncontrollably and for those of you.

0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Trying to start from, Crying i'm telling you, something, man

0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:19.919
<v Speaker 2>is this Is it always seemed to, Happen but this

0:46:19.960 --> 0:46:23.239
<v Speaker 2>guy has really touched my soul in the way that

0:46:23.320 --> 0:46:27.080
<v Speaker 2>he operated and what he did for, me BECAUSE i

0:46:27.120 --> 0:46:31.439
<v Speaker 2>only pay it forward and because of. Him because of, him,

0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:33.920
<v Speaker 2>MAN i, mean it means a. Lot so, YEAH i

0:46:34.000 --> 0:46:35.480
<v Speaker 2>carry him very, high you.

0:46:35.480 --> 0:46:37.839
<v Speaker 5>Know AND i want to give a shout out to

0:46:38.080 --> 0:46:40.680
<v Speaker 5>all THE i know there's a lot of attorneys that

0:46:40.760 --> 0:46:43.920
<v Speaker 5>listen to the show who do incredible amounts of pro

0:46:44.000 --> 0:46:48.319
<v Speaker 5>bono work on behalf of people like, yourself and to

0:46:48.480 --> 0:46:50.680
<v Speaker 5>all of, THEM i just want to say that you

0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:53.000
<v Speaker 5>have all of our respect.

0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:54.840
<v Speaker 4>And appreciation because we couldn't do it without.

0:46:54.880 --> 0:46:58.720
<v Speaker 5>You and if anybody is considering getting into the, WORK

0:46:59.000 --> 0:47:02.120
<v Speaker 5>i encourage you to to meet somebody Like antoine and

0:47:02.200 --> 0:47:05.640
<v Speaker 5>see what it's meant in a very personal and magical.

0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:09.839
<v Speaker 5>Way so we will continue to Honor Joseph howard by

0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:13.400
<v Speaker 5>continuing to support the work. Now as is a tradition

0:47:13.719 --> 0:47:17.719
<v Speaker 5>on wrong for, conviction we always like to give you

0:47:18.239 --> 0:47:22.279
<v Speaker 5>the exgnery the last, word so we'll turn it over to.

0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:23.840
<v Speaker 1>You, Okay, well thank you so.

0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:26.799
<v Speaker 2>MUCH i do appreciate being, here getting an opportunity to

0:47:26.960 --> 0:47:31.160
<v Speaker 2>share and to enlighten people of what really goes on

0:47:31.280 --> 0:47:34.920
<v Speaker 2>outside of just the, media and to thank people Like

0:47:35.000 --> 0:47:39.640
<v Speaker 2>laura and yourself for having this. Platform but most of,

0:47:39.680 --> 0:47:42.400
<v Speaker 2>ALL i like to say WHERE i am today is

0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:43.520
<v Speaker 2>because of somebody's.

0:47:43.560 --> 0:47:45.279
<v Speaker 1>Help the things THAT i do.

0:47:45.320 --> 0:47:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Today i'm a court advocate for juvenile youth In chicago

0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:51.840
<v Speaker 2>when they go to court.

0:47:51.640 --> 0:47:53.880
<v Speaker 1>To make sure they're not wronged LIKE i.

0:47:53.920 --> 0:47:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Was so when they get, ARRESTED i get a phone

0:47:56.520 --> 0:48:00.360
<v Speaker 2>call and we appear in. COURT i support them also

0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:02.640
<v Speaker 2>with the Family, AGAIN i work in one of the

0:48:02.719 --> 0:48:06.240
<v Speaker 2>most harshest communities in the city Of chicago and throughout

0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:10.520
<v Speaker 2>the state AT Bbf Family, services Where i'm able to

0:48:10.680 --> 0:48:13.360
<v Speaker 2>give back to the community with Mister joe gave to

0:48:13.400 --> 0:48:17.479
<v Speaker 2>me Through loyola and working With laura and the things

0:48:17.480 --> 0:48:20.080
<v Speaker 2>she did for me helped me. Create, also me And

0:48:20.160 --> 0:48:22.879
<v Speaker 2>Jared adams helped me create life after.

0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Justice even after.

0:48:24.160 --> 0:48:26.239
<v Speaker 2>Her, work we continue to do, it so we are

0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:29.439
<v Speaker 2>springboard off of what she. Did so what she has

0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:32.000
<v Speaker 2>done for me is also paying it for it again

0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:35.479
<v Speaker 2>and making things happen when you can help somebody, Else

0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:38.160
<v Speaker 2>and that's what we don't do enough of in this,

0:48:38.280 --> 0:48:41.880
<v Speaker 2>country in this. World were more worried about other activities

0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:42.920
<v Speaker 2>around the world when.

0:48:42.760 --> 0:48:44.399
<v Speaker 1>We really flat on our back right.

0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:48.879
<v Speaker 2>Here SO i just really appreciate the opportunity to say

0:48:48.920 --> 0:48:50.000
<v Speaker 2>thank you.

0:48:49.680 --> 0:48:51.560
<v Speaker 1>And keep it going and keep calling me BECAUSE i

0:48:51.560 --> 0:48:52.080
<v Speaker 1>don't mind.

0:48:52.080 --> 0:48:56.040
<v Speaker 2>COMING i believe in the, work and this is WHAT i,

0:48:56.080 --> 0:48:58.560
<v Speaker 2>love you, KNOW i love giving it. Back like you,

0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:00.919
<v Speaker 2>said you, Know i'm. Inspired you KNOW i had a great.

0:49:01.000 --> 0:49:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Mom i'm inspired by my, sister who you, KNOW i

0:49:04.680 --> 0:49:07.600
<v Speaker 2>always say she talked too, much but then that particular

0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:10.279
<v Speaker 2>time she talked at the right time in order to

0:49:10.280 --> 0:49:13.239
<v Speaker 2>meet Mister joe's, son WHO i think not enough but

0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:14.600
<v Speaker 2>as much AS i possibly.

0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Can i'm very, grateful and LIKE i, Said i'm. Blessed

0:49:17.320 --> 0:49:20.120
<v Speaker 1>i'm blessed to be in this in this particular position

0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:22.279
<v Speaker 1>Where i'm able to help other. People that's HOW i help.

0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:25.000
<v Speaker 2>MYSELF i need to be an Angel i'm trying to learn,

0:49:25.040 --> 0:49:28.399
<v Speaker 2>it you, know, so Mister, Joe i'm trying to learn

0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:30.960
<v Speaker 2>how to be that example he would be proud of

0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:31.200
<v Speaker 2>me to.

0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:35.520
<v Speaker 5>Be, WELL i THINK i can say that he would,

0:49:35.520 --> 0:49:38.640
<v Speaker 5>be And i'm sure he. Is and you are a

0:49:38.680 --> 0:49:43.840
<v Speaker 5>great example of everything that's good and right about this.

0:49:44.040 --> 0:49:47.759
<v Speaker 5>Cause and people like you are the strongest forces we

0:49:47.920 --> 0:49:51.799
<v Speaker 5>have because the stories are just so incredible and so,

0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:55.840
<v Speaker 5>powerful and SO i appreciate you being here and sharing.

0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:58.120
<v Speaker 5>THAT i KNEW i was going to learn something. That

0:50:04.400 --> 0:50:07.000
<v Speaker 5>don't forget to give us a fantastic Review wherever you

0:50:07.080 --> 0:50:10.760
<v Speaker 5>get your, podcasts it really. Helps And i'm a proud

0:50:10.800 --> 0:50:13.359
<v Speaker 5>donor to The Innocence, project AND i really hope you'll

0:50:13.440 --> 0:50:16.840
<v Speaker 5>join me in supporting this very important cause and helping

0:50:16.960 --> 0:50:20.880
<v Speaker 5>to prevent future wrongful. Convictions go To innocenceproject dot org

0:50:21.000 --> 0:50:23.759
<v Speaker 5>to learn how to donate and get. Involved i'd like

0:50:23.800 --> 0:50:26.800
<v Speaker 5>to thank our production, Team Connor hall And Kevin. Wortis

0:50:27.120 --> 0:50:29.400
<v Speaker 5>the music in the show is by three TIME oscar

0:50:29.440 --> 0:50:32.480
<v Speaker 5>nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us On

0:50:32.520 --> 0:50:36.640
<v Speaker 5>instagram At Wrongful conviction and On facebook At Wrongful Conviction.

0:50:36.800 --> 0:50:40.360
<v Speaker 5>Podcast Wrongful conviction With Jason flahm is a production Of

0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:44.160
<v Speaker 5>lava For good podcasts and association with Signal Company number

0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:50.319
<v Speaker 5>one