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Speaker 1: I think we have the best legal system.

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Speaker 2: It's just the people that implement they get lost along

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Speaker 2: the way and forget.

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Speaker 1: What their job really is.

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Speaker 3: He just kept on trying to remind me that who

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Speaker 3: was in authority, who was in control, and how easy

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Speaker 3: it was for my body to be found in any

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Speaker 3: alley of New York City.

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Speaker 4: It's a tough prison when you have the guards going

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Speaker 4: against you because they are the biggest gang in the prison.

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Speaker 1: They do that.

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Speaker 2: They'll give a guy a life sentence and go home

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Speaker 2: in eat spaghetti like it was nothing.

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Speaker 3: And anybody that said, well, why would you confess to

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Speaker 3: something that you didn't do? My question to them will

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Speaker 3: be why wouldn't you confess when somebody's threatening to kill

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Speaker 3: your life?

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Speaker 2: The judge, he said, how you feel? I said, I'm okay.

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Speaker 2: He said, well, the days you're lucky day you're going home.

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Speaker 4: This is wrongful Conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with

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Speaker 4: Jason Flamm.

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Speaker 5: Today we have two guests and I feel really excited

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Speaker 5: about today's episode.

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Speaker 4: We have Antoine Day.

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Speaker 5: Antoine Day sixty years for murder, twenty five years for

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Speaker 5: attempted murder.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety two, Antoine Day was found guilty of

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Speaker 1: the murder of one man and attempted murder of another

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Speaker 1: outside a liquor store on Chicago's West Side.

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Speaker 4: Convicted in nineteen ninety two, exonerated in two thousand and two.

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Speaker 4: Antoine Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 5: Well, thanks for having me, And with Antoine, he brought

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Speaker 5: a luminary in the criminal justice reform movement. Laura Caldwell

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Speaker 5: and Laura is an accomplished author of many many books novels,

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Speaker 5: also professor at Loyola in Chicago and the found of

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Speaker 5: the Life After Innocence.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Lai at Loyola University Chicago School of Law.

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Speaker 4: Got it.

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Speaker 5: But let's go back to the beginning. You came from Illinois, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, West side of Chicago.

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Speaker 5: And you were a musician, and you had some stuff

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Speaker 5: going on at the time that everything went haywire.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: It was a murder that happened at a craps game,

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Speaker 5: right right. Two people shot Thomas Peters and James Coleman,

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Speaker 5: and Peters died and Coleman was wounded, and they're out

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Speaker 5: looking for the suspects.

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Speaker 4: How'd you get mixed up?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: I got mixed up because you know, I didn't come

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Speaker 2: from that real cush community. You know, I come from

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Speaker 2: a very hard heart community, you know, the West side

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Speaker 2: of Chicago. Even right now, it's the top murder has

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Speaker 2: the top murder rate in.

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Speaker 4: The state and one of the top of the country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in the country. Yeah it is.

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Speaker 2: So I lived, as I live now in its same community,

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Speaker 2: and I also I work in the second largest murder

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Speaker 2: rate in the country in Lindale. So how it happened

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Speaker 2: was I was known in the community because I was

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Speaker 2: in the street. You know, I did some things in

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Speaker 2: the street. Today I wouldn't be so proud of. But

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Speaker 2: you know, young kid, you know, you did some things,

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Speaker 2: and so you meet.

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Speaker 4: People, but not necessarily violent thing.

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Speaker 2: No, nothing violent, had nothing to do with violence. I

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Speaker 2: sold drugs, you know, I sold marijuana. I did what

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Speaker 2: most young guys my age do.

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Speaker 4: So okay, So you were I was known.

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Speaker 1: And then I was a musician.

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Speaker 2: We played all the community of fast concerts. We did

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Speaker 2: a lot of things. And I lived in the community,

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Speaker 2: but in this particular community I lived in. The guys

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Speaker 2: that actually got killed stayed only a block away from

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Speaker 2: my home from where I lived. He stayed the next

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Speaker 2: block over, and I didn't know them. They didn't know me,

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Speaker 2: so when the incident occurred, they said that it was

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Speaker 2: a black vehicle, so right away they tagged all the

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Speaker 2: black vehicles in the area. I had two black vehicles.

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Speaker 2: I had a station Wagon. I'm a car man, you know,

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Speaker 2: I love cars. So I had a station Wagon that

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Speaker 2: was fixed up, and I had a Chevy Blazer that

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Speaker 2: was also fixed up. So these two cars stay parked

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Speaker 2: in front of my home. So when the police ran

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Speaker 2: an icing plate, they had my name. We had played

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Speaker 2: in New Orleans. It was raining really hard, so when

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Speaker 2: we came back that morning, it was a car to

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Speaker 2: my door. So I took the car to investigator's car,

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Speaker 2: Detective Connley, I think it was.

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Speaker 1: I called him. I said, you left a car to

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Speaker 1: my door for what.

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Speaker 2: He said, well, I want you to come in and

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Speaker 2: talk to me about some things that took place over

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Speaker 2: the weekend. I said, well, I wasn't here for the weekend.

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Speaker 2: So he had the conversay. He said, well, just come in.

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Speaker 2: He asked me what did I look like? I said,

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Speaker 2: what you mean, when do I look like? He said, so,

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Speaker 2: what are your features? Are you a big guy? Your

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Speaker 2: little guy? I'm like, why would you ask me that?

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Speaker 2: Shouldn't you be telling me you're looking for me. I'm

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Speaker 2: not looking for you. Then he said, well, the story

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Speaker 2: was that you were, you know, about six' to two like.

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Speaker 2: Complex THEN i, said, no that's not. Me he, said

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Speaker 2: so you shouldn't have no.

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Speaker 4: Problem how tall are?

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Speaker 1: YOU i gotta be about five, ten probably used to be.

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Speaker 5: Taller you were number six, too and like, complected you

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Speaker 5: KNOW i like complected and, yeah so you didn't fit the.

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Speaker 2: DESCRIPTION i, didn't SO i thought maybe they just got my,

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Speaker 2: name so let me go. In so WHEN i went,

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Speaker 2: in he started asking me about my, car, said WHY

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Speaker 2: i have two? Vehicles is? Black so he went over

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Speaker 2: the thing with the. Car he asked, me had anybody

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Speaker 2: been driving the? Car?

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Speaker 1: Stant, no my cars haven't, moved been sitting all.

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Speaker 2: Week so you begin to ask me about DID i

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Speaker 2: know these particular.

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Speaker 1: People i'm saying, NO i don't. Know don't. FORGET i

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Speaker 1: took a lawyer in with.

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Speaker 4: ME i, mean let's adaly. This you were a thousand

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Speaker 4: miles away right when the thing.

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Speaker 5: Happened, right you didn't fit the description, Right but, still

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Speaker 5: growing up in that type of, environment you know that

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Speaker 5: the police are capable of pulling some thirty tricks, right And, chicago,

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Speaker 5: unfortunately is as infamous as, anywhere with all the scandals

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Speaker 5: that have happened, there very well.

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Speaker 4: Known so you.

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Speaker 5: Hired to learn, though because you're, thinking you, KNOW i

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Speaker 5: better BE i better just take every say. Exactly so

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Speaker 5: you hired this lawyer and then tell us the.

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Speaker 2: Story i've never been one to trust the police, anyway

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Speaker 2: because they've done a lot of things in the. Past

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Speaker 2: SO i KNEW i should maybe take this lawyer in with.

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Speaker 1: Me SO i called.

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Speaker 2: Him he, said, SURE i, come and you, KNOW i, said,

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Speaker 2: MAN i just to make sure this go. Right you,

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Speaker 2: KNOW i KNOW i haven't done, anything SO i want

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Speaker 2: to make sure this goes. Right he, said, okay he comes.

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Speaker 2: In he came to my mom's, house met me at

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Speaker 2: my mother's, house and we went to the police.

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Speaker 4: Stay how far is that maybe two.

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Speaker 2: Miles So i'm sitting in the interview, room, well not

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Speaker 2: an interview. Room it's just a, room, big, big open,

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Speaker 2: space maybe sixty seventy chairs in this.

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Speaker 1: Room i'm sitting in a.

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Speaker 2: Chair it's another guy sitting in a, chair you, know

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Speaker 2: maybe ten feet away from. Me you, know we're just.

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Speaker 2: Talking we've been sitting there so. Long so now we

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Speaker 2: begin to. Talk i'm, like, MAN i don't know why

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Speaker 2: they got me. Here he said me.

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Speaker 1: Either. Man they brought me in here and just made,

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Speaker 1: me you, know sit.

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Speaker 2: Here i've been sitting there for the longest because he

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Speaker 2: was actually here BEFORE i, here and we were just

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Speaker 2: sitting there. Talking then the detective came. In he, said,

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Speaker 2: look are you willing to stand the? LINEUP i sent a?

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Speaker 2: Lineup so Now i'm looking for my. Lawyer, logical where's my?

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Speaker 2: Lawyer where was it for this?

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Speaker 1: Lineup? Right he was.

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Speaker 2: Gone he had left a message that he was going

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Speaker 2: to his daughter's birthday.

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Speaker 1: Party so he left me in the police.

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Speaker 4: Station and you paid him five thousand.

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Speaker 1: Dollars he got five grand out of me.

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Speaker 5: To drive you two. Miles that's like twenty five hundred.

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Speaker 5: Miles that's not not it's not bad, man that's, incredible you.

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Speaker 5: Know SO i Just i'm, SORRY i. Can't that's. CRAZY

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Speaker 5: i got to take him.

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Speaker 2: Pause how he got five thousand in the. Beginning let

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Speaker 2: me just MAKE i gave him twenty five. Hundred that

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Speaker 2: was going to the police, station, right and if anything

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Speaker 2: else had, occurred THEN i would have gave him the

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Speaker 2: rest of, it so and it. DID i guess that

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Speaker 2: was the part of the. Setup so now he gets

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Speaker 2: all his money if he leave and THEN i get.

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Speaker 2: Arrested SO i felt like it was from the beginning

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Speaker 2: it was a.

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Speaker 5: Setup so he had an incentive to get you, ARRESTED i. Believe,

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Speaker 5: so oh my, God, well, OKAY i mean that's because what.

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Speaker 1: Else could it.

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Speaker 2: Be he, Left he didn't even start his job to finish.

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Speaker 2: It so the start was to be there for questioning if,

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Speaker 2: anything the whole, conversation he wasn't, There.

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Speaker 4: So you're on your, own, right and then what.

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Speaker 5: HAPPENS i want to Bring laura into this conversation because

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Speaker 5: she's so familiar with all this kind of nons she

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Speaker 5: know better than. THAT i Think antoine's case is a

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Speaker 5: roadmap how not to do.

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Speaker 6: Things it's also a roadmap in a sense of what

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Speaker 6: happens when you're. Innocent when you're, innocent you're always happy

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Speaker 6: to talk to someone because, frankly you know you didn't do.

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Speaker 6: It but how smart to get a lawyer at least

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Speaker 6: before you do talk to someone on something you don't.

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Speaker 6: Know so that was such a smart. Move we usually

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Speaker 6: hear people go into the station all the. Time not

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Speaker 6: everybody's smart enough to bring a. Lawyer unfortunately for, him

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Speaker 6: the lawyer was very negligent and left and didn't come.

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Speaker 1: Back they then put.

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Speaker 6: Him in a lineup and the two gentlemen he was

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Speaker 6: sitting with the cops actually we now, know said go

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Speaker 6: ahead and pick that gentleman. Out later one of them quickly,

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Speaker 6: recanted so its not that, guy but it was too.

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Speaker 6: Late they've been identified and Off antoine.

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Speaker 2: Was so you got to remember these two. Guys both

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Speaker 2: of these guys was heroin, addicts you. Know and the

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Speaker 2: one GUY i think Was coleman who said he, said,

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Speaker 2: man they KNEW i was a dope thing when they arrested.

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Speaker 1: Me he, SAID i would.

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Speaker 2: Say my mother Killed kennedy if they had made me do.

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Speaker 2: It you, know he said. That because this guy came

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Speaker 2: to court and he. Apologized coleman is the only one who. Apologized,

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Speaker 2: well both of them came to court and admitted why

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Speaker 2: they lied because the police had arrested, them these same

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Speaker 2: two guys.

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Speaker 1: Before, see they had a history with these same.

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Speaker 2: Detectives so it kind of weigh, out you, know once

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Speaker 2: you start your investigation and you really get to see

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Speaker 2: how they're.

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Speaker 5: Connected there's a really important thing that, happens or actually

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Speaker 5: doesn't happen during the, trial, right which is that now

221
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,520
Speaker 5: that you've already been screwed over by the first, lawyer

222
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:06,880
Speaker 5: now you get a second.

223
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,440
Speaker 4: Lawyer the second one really, yea fucked you.

224
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,600
Speaker 1: Over i'm also paid FOR i like what you said

225
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 1: that he really.

226
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,440
Speaker 5: Did your attorney neglected to do things that a third

227
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 5: grader would have, done, right which, is he neglected to

228
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 5: call the witnesses who would have placed you elsewhere at

229
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 5: the time of the. Crime and he neglected to call the.

230
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:31,840
Speaker 5: Victim there were two. Victims one of them was a.

231
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 5: Lie he couldn't call the dead, guy, right but the

232
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:34,440
Speaker 5: living Guy.

233
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:35,439
Speaker 4: Coleman.

234
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,800
Speaker 5: Right he wanted to, testify, Right and sometimes guys don't

235
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 5: want to. Testify he wanted to. Testify so all this

236
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 5: idiot that was representing, you AND i say that in

237
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,000
Speaker 5: the nicest possible.

238
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:47,800
Speaker 1: Way don't be.

239
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 5: Nice all this guy would have had to do is

240
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 5: say your, honor like IN. Tv i'd like to bring

241
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:59,719
Speaker 5: to the Stands James, coleman and Then, coleman who got

242
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 5: shot would have said that you weren't the, guy and

243
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:03,959
Speaker 5: then you would have gone home and.

244
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:04,719
Speaker 4: Let's talk about that for a.

245
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,559
Speaker 5: Second so were you not able to say to your,

246
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,160
Speaker 5: attorney hey, man call THE i.

247
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,079
Speaker 2: DID i said, it AND i had people getting and

248
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,520
Speaker 2: gathering the witnesses. People that was actually that he goes

249
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,840
Speaker 2: to a crime scene so long after the incident and

250
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,880
Speaker 2: couldn't find. Anybody he went into the liquor store asking

251
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 2: questions about inside of a liquor. Store now keep in

252
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,440
Speaker 2: mind that they said that this was actually going to

253
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,840
Speaker 2: be a stick up. Murder they said THAT i was

254
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,480
Speaker 2: robbing a dice game AND i saw these two guys

255
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 2: WHO i had some issues, with and begin to.

256
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,959
Speaker 1: Shoot this is what they.

257
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,320
Speaker 2: Said my intention was to rob a dice, game a

258
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,400
Speaker 2: two dollars dice, game which was a, JOKE a.

259
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 4: Two dollar dice. Game, yeah and you had two.

260
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,640
Speaker 2: CARS i had two, cars, buildings and a lot of other.

261
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 1: Stuff so these people say.

262
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,040
Speaker 2: They really didn't need four, hours, RIGHT i really didn't

263
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,199
Speaker 2: a two dollars dice. Game so he said that this

264
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,680
Speaker 2: was the reason for the. Shooting so when they came

265
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,680
Speaker 2: back to me with the explanation of WHY i supposed

266
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,680
Speaker 2: to shot these two, Guys James coleman had always, said

267
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,640
Speaker 2: you wasn't the, guy he, said AND i told him.

268
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,840
Speaker 1: That he, said but, MAN i was. Sick you.

269
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,360
Speaker 2: KNOW i had a conversation with, him and he said

270
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,640
Speaker 2: THAT i was. SICK i talked to this man on the,

271
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 2: phone you, know a whole lot of. Times and he

272
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,600
Speaker 2: even went to my, mother's to my parents' house and

273
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,040
Speaker 2: told my mom THAT i lied on. Him for that,

274
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,760
Speaker 2: reason he, said AND i need to straighten it. Out

275
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,880
Speaker 2: he just couldn't get hisself, together and he said it

276
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,839
Speaker 2: also in, court say his life had really fell apart

277
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,640
Speaker 2: because he knew he lied on. Me but then the other,

278
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 2: guy the real, girly his intention was. Money his family

279
00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,480
Speaker 2: wanted me to pay. Them if you give us THIS x.

280
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 1: Amount of, dollars we'll walk. Away we won't even show up.

281
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,959
Speaker 5: In court because was originally a witness against, you, Right

282
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,040
Speaker 5: and then he was ready to testify at the, trial

283
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 5: and he had, lied.

284
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,040
Speaker 4: RIGHT i just want to make that clear to the.

285
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,800
Speaker 5: Audience so ultimately you had an, option WHICH i find

286
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,120
Speaker 5: is an interesting. Thing, Right so your co defendant chose

287
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 5: to be tried by a jury and you chose to

288
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 5: be tried by a.

289
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 2: Judge let's talk about, that because when we went into the.

290
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,679
Speaker 1: COURTROOM i kind.

291
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,280
Speaker 2: Of felt that this judge wasn't the JUDGE i. WANTED

292
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,959
Speaker 2: i didn't want a bench. TRIAL i never wanted a bench.

293
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,440
Speaker 2: Trial the attorney wanted a bench. TRIAL i wanted to pick,

294
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,640
Speaker 2: twelve but he denied me a jury. Trial he told

295
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,199
Speaker 2: me THAT i waited too late to.

296
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,680
Speaker 1: Pick a jury. Trial the judge tell you the judge.

297
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,040
Speaker 2: Did he, said we waited too late to pick a jury,

298
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,880
Speaker 2: trial AND i wanted.

299
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 1: TWELVE i never trusted the.

300
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,120
Speaker 4: Judge or is that a?

301
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 6: Thing you are supposed to demand trial by jury when

302
00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 6: you file your answer when you. APPEAR i don't know

303
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,880
Speaker 6: if he failed to do. That if he did that

304
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,200
Speaker 6: alone is. Malpractice but what you do is you routinely

305
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,839
Speaker 6: ask for a jury and then if later you want

306
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 6: to switch to a bench you can. So either he

307
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,080
Speaker 6: didn't ask for it early on we never.

308
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:08,560
Speaker 1: Could seess that.

309
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 6: Out or he thought the judge would be good for

310
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 6: them and then counseled him. Incorrectly but in any, event

311
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,120
Speaker 6: he counseled him against his wishes and against what would

312
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,640
Speaker 6: have been hopefully a much better outcome with twelve people

313
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:23,320
Speaker 6: and minds.

314
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 2: YOU i walked into the police. Station they had to

315
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,880
Speaker 2: run this guy. Down the guy is inconcrated right now

316
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,560
Speaker 2: for the. Murder they had to run him. Down they found.

317
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,320
Speaker 2: Him which guy you talking? About my co, defendant, Right?

318
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 2: Okay who they made my co. DEFENDED i don't like

319
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,040
Speaker 2: claiming him BECAUSE i didn't even know this.

320
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,480
Speaker 1: Guy but they found him.

321
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,920
Speaker 2: Later he found him later on and arrested him and

322
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,480
Speaker 2: brought him. In so Now i'm demanding a separate. Trial

323
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 2: but they tried us just the same. Time SO i

324
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,040
Speaker 2: felt my rights was BECAUSE i almost took. OVER i

325
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 2: Know i'm not an, attorney BUT i got good common.

326
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 2: SENSE i don't want to sit at the table with this,

327
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,200
Speaker 2: guy and he is the. Shooter so Now i'm sitting

328
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 2: at the. Table so what he Did he simultaneously tried

329
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 2: us in the same, day the same court with the same.

330
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,680
Speaker 4: People, yeah that seems.

331
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 5: Crazy so you end up getting convicted and being sent

332
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,240
Speaker 5: to a really scary.

333
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,160
Speaker 2: Place oh, Yeah pontiac prison guards to tell you welcome To.

334
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,160
Speaker 2: Pontiac in fifteen, minutes you had your own personal.

335
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,600
Speaker 4: Shak your own personal, Shak, yeah.

336
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 1: And you had.

337
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 2: It place was full of blood already when you walked

338
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 2: through those big doors slide, open AND i ain't never

339
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 2: been in prison.

340
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 1: Before, man it was it was.

341
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,920
Speaker 5: SHOCKING i read that there were three hundred and sixty

342
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 5: incarcerated men in the prison at that time in five.

343
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 1: Guards, yeah in one, building.

344
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 4: In one, building yeah.

345
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 5: YEAH i mean that doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

346
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 5: EITHER i mean one building and the guards had automatic,

347
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,040
Speaker 5: weapons and there were bullet, holes and there was a

348
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,840
Speaker 5: sign that said gud rapped to the ground if bullets are.

349
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,400
Speaker 5: Fired whee that sign where you, like AM i in a?

350
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:03,200
Speaker 4: War?

351
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah that's What that's what it. Was you can be

352
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,200
Speaker 2: on the yard in five seconds and watch somebody get.

353
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 2: Stabbed that's the reason they tell you if you go,

354
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,400
Speaker 2: down drop to the, ground.

355
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,800
Speaker 5: Because then they're gonna start to. Shoot being vastly outnumbered

356
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 5: as the guards, were that's their last, recourse. RIGHT i

357
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 5: mean that's a tough job. TOO i, MEAN i, mean just.

358
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,440
Speaker 2: For the sake of knowing what exactly, happens you, know

359
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i know they. Exaggerated so those guards are not

360
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,720
Speaker 2: moving three hundred guys at one. Time in the, salehouse

361
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,120
Speaker 2: you move only a section at a, Time so you

362
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,120
Speaker 2: might see thirty, guys two, guards one in the, front

363
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 2: one in the, back and then the guy own with

364
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,800
Speaker 2: the rifle that's gonna knock your brains, out And pontiac is.

365
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 5: Held, well you were in lockdown sometimes twenty four hours a.

366
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,280
Speaker 5: Day yeah, RIGHT i mean there was a. Month there

367
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:49,920
Speaker 5: was a month where you were never let out of your.

368
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,240
Speaker 5: CELL i, mean it's incredible that you have any mental,

369
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 5: faculties you, know preserved after.

370
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,440
Speaker 2: That it was more than a. Month they used to

371
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,920
Speaker 2: lock us, down The pontiac for a. Year lock you, down.

372
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 4: So no, shower no.

373
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,120
Speaker 5: Nothing you get a shower once a, week and other

374
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:06,399
Speaker 5: than that you're locked down twenty a.

375
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,800
Speaker 4: Week, yeah twenty four seven in yourself with someone, else.

376
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,000
Speaker 2: With someone else and the, toilet and EVERY i mean

377
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 2: every day they would lock you. Down if an incident,

378
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,399
Speaker 2: occurred somebody got, stabbed they lock you.

379
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 1: Down you'd be locked up six.

380
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 2: Months they let you off two, days somebody else get,

381
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,320
Speaker 2: hit they lock you up another six.

382
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 1: Months And i'm talking about complete.

383
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,760
Speaker 2: Lockup pontiac was held because it was like it was

384
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 2: almost like a, supermax but it was one of the

385
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 2: roughest max joints In. Illinois and every day you see

386
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 2: either someone getting, raped somebody getting, stabbed somebody getting beat

387
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,560
Speaker 2: half to death or somebody getting shot by the. Guards that's,

388
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,680
Speaker 2: Insane and then you talk about the. TRAUMA i watched

389
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 2: the man in front of my. CELL i had just

390
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,439
Speaker 2: finished working. OUT i came in to get in the

391
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,480
Speaker 2: shower and the guard was telling him to put his hands,

392
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 2: down and he was talking with his, hands and he

393
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,280
Speaker 2: shot him so. Fast you just see the blood, jump

394
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 2: like from the first floor to the third.

395
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 1: Floor he hit him so fast and.

396
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 4: Killed the man instantly because he was talking on his.

397
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,919
Speaker 2: Hands, yeah you, know because potential. Violence you, know guys

398
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,360
Speaker 2: do that when they're getting ready to do. Something so

399
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 2: these are the. SIGNS i guess he blew his brains.

400
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,440
Speaker 2: Out but this place is what you saw every. Day

401
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 2: either you, came you got up to go to work

402
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,399
Speaker 2: in the. MORNING i used to leave out five in the.

403
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 2: MORNING i had an institutional, job SO i work all

404
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 2: over the, penitentiary death, row protect the.

405
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:34,919
Speaker 1: CUSTODY i work all over the.

406
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 2: Joint SO i get ready to leave out in the

407
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,920
Speaker 2: morning AND i walk past the guy's sell he's hanging, there.

408
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 1: Just hanging. There you.

409
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 2: KNOW i used to see so much of it you

410
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 2: become numb to. It and that's a shame.

411
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 5: And the scene you're describing Makes Shaw Shank redemptions sound

412
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:50,960
Speaker 5: like A disney.

413
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 4: MOVIE i, mean it's just it. Was, yeah it's as

414
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:55,040
Speaker 4: bad as it.

415
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 5: Gets, yeah it's so bizarre that we have it absolutely,

416
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 5: wrong absolutely. Backwards and In Western european countries and In

417
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,240
Speaker 5: scandinavian countries and.

418
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 4: All over the world they take the opposite.

419
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 5: Approach their thing is when you get, out you're going

420
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 5: to have to live next door to, somebody maybe. Me,

421
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 5: Right so at one point a couple of good things. Happen,

422
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 5: Right you found sort of hope and sanity and music, again,

423
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 5: Right AND i thought that was a brave thing that you,

424
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 5: did because there were at the time no musical instruments

425
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 5: in this prison hell whatever you want to call, it,

426
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 5: right and you were able to convince the, warden.

427
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 1: Superintendent kelly it was my, buddy.

428
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,360
Speaker 5: Right so he at your behas he ordered some, instruments

429
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,439
Speaker 5: and you got to put together a little band and

430
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,199
Speaker 5: get a little some kind of, JOY i, guess.

431
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 2: Yeah because we had been on lockdown so much and

432
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,159
Speaker 2: they had had some instruments they had it was.

433
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,120
Speaker 1: Garbage So kelly.

434
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,639
Speaker 2: Had decided that if that would keep us peaceful around

435
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,479
Speaker 2: a joint well ordered some more.

436
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: Instruments so he ordered some more.

437
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 2: Drums and guitars and, amps and it was called The

438
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:10,199
Speaker 2: Power Soul, Band Our Soul Power Soul, Band and so

439
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,399
Speaker 2: we played and most of the guys was in the

440
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 2: band had natural. Life so those guys are still locked.

441
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 2: Up so we had A we had a nice band,

442
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 2: man and the unit was good and it kept things kind.

443
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 2: OF i, mean we didn't go on lock down for

444
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 2: like maybe a year and a.

445
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 1: Half you, know it.

446
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 2: Was because guys wanted to get out when we. Performed

447
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,199
Speaker 2: they wanted to be, there they wanted to see. It you,

448
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 2: know it's like you going to a, party.

449
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 5: Right so they had a reason and right to not

450
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 5: want to be violent because if they, did they would

451
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,919
Speaker 5: be depriving this little bit of, hope joy, music you,

452
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 5: know life distraction everyone to call. It it is important

453
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,120
Speaker 5: for people to recognize we need to improve the, conditions

454
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,439
Speaker 5: but also bring arts and bring education into the, prison

455
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 5: recognizing that ninety five plus percent of people in prison

456
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 5: are going to get out at some point and have

457
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 5: to rejoin the.

458
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 2: Community WHEN i was, LIKE i heard a politician, saying

459
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 2: why SHOULD i spend twenty thousand dollars on a convict

460
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 2: to get an education WHEN i have to pay for

461
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 2: my sons and daughters to go to. School and they took,

462
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 2: school they took the college because you suhould get a

463
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 2: bachelor's associated all kind of degrees in, prison and guys

464
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 2: come out and make a difference in their. Lives they'd

465
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 2: come out and do better than what they did when

466
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: they went in because they was able to get a,

467
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,919
Speaker 2: job come employed. Today it's not you come, out you just.

468
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 5: Out that's an extremely ignorant thing for the guy to,

469
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 5: say because if he had done any studying at, all

470
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 5: he would know that in places where those kind of programs,

471
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 5: exist the people coming out have a tremendous rate of,

472
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 5: success staying crime, free paying, taxes contributing to the, community

473
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 5: reconnecting with, family.

474
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 4: All those positive aspects of.

475
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 5: Society so even if you're not looking at it from

476
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 5: a human point of, view just looking at it from

477
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 5: a protecting and improving society point of, view the benefits

478
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 5: are immense and only the most maya pick and closed

479
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 5: minded individuals can see it any other. Way so music

480
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 5: came in to give a little something back to your, soul,

481
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 5: right give you a little bit of. Hope and then

482
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 5: you had sort of the guy you would call your, angel,

483
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 5: right sort of appear In, miraculous who was actually a

484
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 5: real estate.

485
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 1: Lawyer, right and he was an angel for.

486
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 4: Real so let's talk about. Him his name what was

487
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 4: his name of This Joseph howard Or Howard, Joseph Howard, Joseph,

488
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 4: right tell me about this, Guy Howard.

489
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 2: Joseph first of, all let me tell YOU i never

490
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: admitted to ever being in love with a, man BUT

491
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 2: i love this, man. Right this is my Little jewish.

492
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 2: Love this is my. Man Howard joseph was an, angel you.

493
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: Know he came in and WHAT i liked about him

494
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 2: was he was, Bossy Like, lord he's, bossy, Right and

495
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: he came in and one DAY i was working out

496
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: on the yard and he, said, man you got a,

497
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 2: visit so you gotta. VISIT i said a? Visit he, said,

498
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 2: yeah your. ATTORNEY i ain't got no, attorney so, yeah

499
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: you got an. Attorney SO i. GO i go to

500
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 2: the front to the visiting, room and there he. Is

501
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 2: he's standing. There The jewish guy had on lorraine, coat

502
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 2: little flip, flops looking Like, colombo Remember.

503
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: Colombo and they come in and that's who he remind me.

504
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: Of So i'm looking at him and so he, said

505
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 2: say that. Wine he, said, okay he's sitting. Down SO

506
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: i sat. Down i'm, like what's.

507
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: This old man telling me to? Say? Boston me?

508
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: Around and he said sit, Down SO i sat. Down

509
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 2: he Said i'm your. ATTORNEY i, said you my. Attorney

510
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: SO i was, like, yeah so this is a, joke,

511
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: Right i'm thinking it's a. Joke he, said, No i'm your.

512
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 2: Attorney he, said your sister and my son had been

513
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: talking AND i read your, case he, said AND i

514
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: just need you to be. Patient we're going to get

515
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 2: you out of, here you. Know AND i just looked

516
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 2: at him like, this this has got to be a.

517
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 2: Joke so he drove three hours one way to come see,

518
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: me and he was about seventy two, then and he

519
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 2: drove back, home and he drove. Again he came again

520
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: AND i, said are you driving away down by? Yourself

521
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: he said, yeah give me a chance to. Think so

522
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 2: he would. Come people would laugh at. Him he, said

523
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 2: get you out of. Here SO i PUT i put

524
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: faith in that he'd ask for. Nothing he'dn't ask for,

525
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: anything you. KNOW i tried to pay for his gas

526
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 2: and buying food and he's.

527
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 4: Well he had a he had a phrase that he

528
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 4: would repeat to, you, right which.

529
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: Was that's when we made it to the county.

530
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: Jail oh, yeah he would every day he would, say

531
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: so you're ready to go.

532
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: HOME i, said of, Course i'm ready to go. Home he,

533
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: said are you ready to go? Home you got some?

534
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: Clothes your mama bring you some. CLOTHES i said. No

535
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 1: so it went on for like two, years almost to that.

536
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 4: Day you guys had like a routine on.

537
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: Him, yeah we had a, routine.

538
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 2: MAN i MEAN i loved his heart because he was.

539
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: Consistent you, know he was a, man had no greed.

540
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: Involved he didn't ask for. Anything he always told, me he,

541
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: said nobody know your case better than you.

542
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: Do attention to.

543
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 4: It he was a real estate, lawyer, right actually he was.

544
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 2: A criminal attorney higher then he just did real. Estate got,

545
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: it just did real estate for, years and so when

546
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: he saw my, case he wanted to get back in the.

547
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 2: Game he, said you would be my last, case AND i.

548
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 2: WAS i was actually his last.

549
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 5: Case it's kind of a, miracle, yeah actually, Right, yeah

550
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 5: he would just pop up out of nowhere AND i

551
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 5: could see why you thought you were being, punked so to, speak, right.

552
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: He did punk, me he. Did he made me sit.

553
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 5: Down so ultimately your Little Jewish stardian angel appears on

554
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 5: the scene and.

555
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 4: He did what he said he was going to.

556
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 5: Do he did because otherwise you wouldn't be sitting here

557
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 5: because you had your sentence was you had two sentences,

558
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 5: right for two different, crimes because.

559
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: Murder temp, murder and they charged me with this arm

560
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: and the farm within the city limits by, felon they

561
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: gave me a temp.

562
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 5: Murder this was nineteen ninety, Two, antoine and you were

563
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 5: send sixty years for murder and twenty five years for attempted.

564
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 5: Murder so he came along just in the nicked time

565
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 5: because you weren't going to spend the rest of your

566
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 5: life in. Prison, yeah there was no doubt about. It

567
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 5: so ultimately he. Won and what did judge say when

568
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 5: when he vacated your?

569
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 4: Conviction?

570
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: Oh, man the judge was, like, uh he asked me

571
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: IF i had any last, words you, know DID i

572
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: want to say?

573
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: Anything?

574
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: MAN i kind of went off in the courtroom BECAUSE

575
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: i told the, JUDGE i said the state's attorney knew

576
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: all the time that they were lying on. Me he

577
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 2: knew all the time because he kept telling, me you

578
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: give us what we, want you can go. Home he

579
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 2: knew all the. Time So judge, said miss. Day he,

580
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: said he, said how you. FEEL i, Said i'm. Okay he,

581
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: said well the days you're. Lucky day you're going. Home and,

582
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: MAN i, MEAN.

583
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: I wasn't even, shocked you, know it was just LIKE

584
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: i was just standing.

585
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 5: There and what was what was YOUR i, Mean i'm

586
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 5: just trying to have this beautiful picture in my mind

587
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 5: of you And.

588
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: Howard Mister, howard he just reachtove and hugged. Me you, know,

589
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: well let me tell you this part before we get

590
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: to that good. Part let me tell you how the

591
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,959
Speaker 2: state's attorneys treated. Him they used to laugh at. Him

592
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: state's attorney used to look at me while we're sitting

593
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 2: in the courtroom in his fancy. Suit mister how would

594
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 2: have on flip flops and they would laugh.

595
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: At him like he was a.

596
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: Joke they would laugh at him like, so the state's

597
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: attorney would sit back in his chair do this to.

598
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 4: Me he's pulling his finger across his throat like you, know.

599
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: Like he's slashing my throat Like i'm, Dead ali, said

600
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: don't worry about.

601
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: HIM i got. Him he, Said i'm good with bullies

602
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: because they're.

603
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: Bullies at that, day you should have seen the expressions

604
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: on these guys. Faces they just couldn't believe that this

605
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: little man just beat them, up this.

606
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: Bad the.

607
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: Wrong little, jew you, know and he cursed like a.

608
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: Seller so he was cursing all the while we were in.

609
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: Court he was mfing and all kinds of. Stuff he

610
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: just didn't play no. Games and this judge told, me you,

611
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: know he was, saying you've been blessed because this man

612
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: did his due.

613
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: Diligence he got me out of.

614
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 5: There i'm getting a chill right. Now so he's become

615
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 5: sort of a mythical. Figure he has a program named after,

616
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 5: Him oh, yeah In illinois and.

617
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 4: Stuff he's not around, anymore.

618
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: Yes because his work is my.

619
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 5: Work his spirit lives on in you and also in

620
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 5: the program that's named after. Him, So, antoine the way

621
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 5: that you found out about your conviction being vacated is

622
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 5: a very. Unusual in, Fact i've never heard anything quite like.

623
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 4: It can you share that? Story me and a.

624
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: Guy Kenny.

625
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 2: Williams we were on the yard at In stateville actually

626
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: when he transferred me To stateville who was working out

627
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: on the. Yard he was reading the newspaper that we're

628
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: not supposed to.

629
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: Have in the.

630
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 2: Newspaper it had my case had been. Overturned so this

631
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: guy Had he had called my name. OUT i thought

632
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: he was just. Joking he called my name out. Again

633
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: he was, like, man so you got to come see.

634
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: This SO i walked over and looked in the. Newspaper

635
00:28:59,120 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: it was like.

636
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: Wow SO i called my.

637
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: Attorney my attorney THOUGHT i was joking and he didn't

638
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: believe it because he didn't know anything about.

639
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 4: It was It April fools or.

640
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: Something it felt like.

641
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 2: It, Yeah so WHEN i told, him he went, crazy you,

642
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: know he was like cursing me, out Thinking i'm.

643
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: Joking so he went and got the.

644
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: Paper he ran out of his, office walked and got the,

645
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: paper came, back AND i called him.

646
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: Back he was, like it is they overturned the.

647
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: Case so he was trying to figure out how could

648
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: they possibly do this because time run at that moment

649
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,239
Speaker 2: and you only have a certain amount of time to

650
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 2: meet it before you probably miss it and miss all

651
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: the pill. Processes so he went and got right on

652
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: top of it and then maybe like a year, later

653
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: they moved me back to the county.

654
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 5: Jail now that's another, thing, Right so anyone listening would, Say,

655
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 5: okay well it's in the. Newspaper your conviction has been.

656
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 5: Overturned so wouldn't they want to send you home at that? Point,

657
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 5: no not exactly, right not In, chicago not at.

658
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: That, time not the processes of. Politics back to the county.

659
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: Jail so now you go, back and you go back

660
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: in front of the. Judge he listened to the new,

661
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 2: evidence he listened to all this stuff that went. On

662
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: SO i was in the county jail for maybe a

663
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: little over two. YEARS i was a. BARBER i was

664
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: cutting the hand in the county and working in a.

665
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: BARBERSHOP i was In division, eleven pretty, good, clean pretty white.

666
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: Building it was real neat and clean over.

667
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: There and they moved me one, night maybe like four

668
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: in the morning or am moved me To division. ONE

669
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: i didn't know. WHY i hadn't done, anything hadn't been

670
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: in no, trouble straight and narrow so far put me

671
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,959
Speaker 2: in the cell with a. GUY i didn't know who

672
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: he was at the, time but my son was. Killed

673
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: he got killed in two. THOUSAND i came home two

674
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: thousand and. Two he was seventeen when they moved me

675
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: From division. Eleven they moved me To division, one and

676
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: they put me in the cell with the guy that

677
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: actually killed.

678
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 4: Him they put you in the, cell, yeah putting the

679
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 4: guy who killed your.

680
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 5: Son and it wasn't a long. Time but this is re,

681
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 5: right press, right AND i mean my head is, exploding,

682
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 5: Right and they did this.

683
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 4: On, purpose, right because it was not a.

684
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 5: Coincidence and it's also strange that they did it at

685
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 5: four in the, morning, right it's not the typical time

686
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 5: that they move. You and they've been moved for no

687
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 5: reason except there was a reason because from WHAT i

688
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 5: can figure, out they didn't like the fact that you

689
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 5: were going to get out and that you had proven them.

690
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 5: Wrong you and with the help of this magical seventy

691
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 5: something year old attorney who didn't dress right and was

692
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 5: being made by the.

693
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 4: Prosecutor so they didn't like.

694
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 5: That so that it sounds to me AND i hate

695
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 5: to think in terms that are so. Sinister but you

696
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 5: were a big guy back, then, Right you were bench

697
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 5: pressing five hundred.

698
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: POUNDS i was in the fire. Club we just called

699
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: the five hundred.

700
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 5: Club so they moved you to this, cell thinking this

701
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 5: guy meaning, you you're going to kill this other, guy BECAUSE.

702
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: I mean it SEEMED i, mean of, course like.

703
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: WHAT i did recognize WAS i went back in my

704
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: head for a little while BECAUSE i remember WHEN i

705
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: was In, pontiac how the state's attorney had came and investigated,

706
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: me was asking all these questions around, me AND i

707
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: was never supposed to know that they were even, there

708
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 2: BUT i found, out and it was kind of this

709
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: made a little bit more familiar to what the process

710
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: was of them keeping me. Incocerated IF i catch another,

711
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: case then my appeal is non and. Void it's just

712
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: not gonna. Happen so they put me in this predicament

713
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: with this. Guy either he was going to kill me

714
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: OR i was gonna kill. Him it would have been

715
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: a lose lose situation for me to do something or

716
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: have something done to. Me, SO i, mean it's a chess.

717
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: Game they made their, moves SO i had to make.

718
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: Mine my move was to call the guard and tell

719
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: THEM i refuse housing SO i can be taken out

720
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 2: of this. Situation you, know because at this, POINT i,

721
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: MEAN i got great common.

722
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: Sense i'm this close to. Home i'm not going to blow.

723
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 5: It even for the literally the most extreme situation you

724
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 5: can possibly find.

725
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: Yourself it wouldn't have did. Anything it wouldn't have brought them. Back,

726
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: no IF i had to beat them to a, pope

727
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have brought him. Back so man of the,

728
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: matter you, know it's just at a point you just

729
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: have to think about the future.

730
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 5: Now that that's an incredible it's a mind blowing. Story

731
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 5: AND i never shared this.

732
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: Story so if people don't even know about, this you

733
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: seem to get all getting it all out of me.

734
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: Today know what going on around?

735
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 4: Here none of us could possibly. Understand nobody that hasn't

736
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 4: been doing that.

737
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 5: Understand but it's a miracle that you were able to

738
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 5: resist an impulse that must have been as powerful as

739
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 5: any that anybody could.

740
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 4: Imagine but it, IS.

741
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: I, mean it's it's a. Thing you, Know.

742
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: I've always heard the term of feeling your blood. Boil you,

743
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: know how you just feel your body go to a

744
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: whole nother temperature that would be. It your ethers get

745
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 2: the rise and you get the. Sweating and that's WHY

746
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: i was going through BECAUSE i have told myself.

747
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: Over and over and over and over and over. Again

748
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: IF i ever see, them What i'm going to do to?

749
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 4: Them?

750
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 2: Right you, know IF i ever because you always, talk

751
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 2: you avenge your family and stand up for your, family

752
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: and when you put in these situations in this, circumstance you,

753
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 2: KNOW i always said that to, myself SO i had

754
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 2: to escalate.

755
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: Immediately you.

756
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 4: Know it's almost like who could blame? You you're in

757
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 4: year eight or nine of your wrongful.

758
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 5: Incarceration you've been through everything that they can throw at,

759
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 5: you and now you just lived through the worst thing

760
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 5: that a parent can go through is to lose a

761
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 5: child and then to be put in a tiny cell

762
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 5: with a. Guy but you're, right it wouldn't accomplish. Anything

763
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 5: but it's easy to say from here you didn't. Here

764
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 5: it's easy to. Say so this is SOMETHING i really

765
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 5: want to highlight because in twenty five years of doing,

766
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 5: this the first thing that people ask me almost every

767
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 5: TIME i tell a story like yours is do they get?

768
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 4: Compensated this? Man did this? Woman tell? Me they get?

769
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 5: Yeah and you should see like the eyes are bugging,

770
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 5: out like you, know because if you if you're not

771
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 5: familiar with, this and a lot of people, aren't when

772
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 5: you first hear one of these, stories you get so. Shook,

773
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,919
Speaker 5: right tell me they get, Paid tell me they get

774
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 5: something when they get. Out and you, KNOW i think

775
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 5: it's shocking to a lot of people to learn that

776
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 5: a lot of exgneries get, nothing, period full, stop end of. Story,

777
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 5: right they just have to go figure it out with

778
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 5: this twenty year gap or whatever it might. Be but

779
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 5: even if you do get, paid because people see the

780
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 5: stories in the, paper sometimes somebody successfully sues for civil

781
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 5: rights violation or whatever it is and gets millions of,

782
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 5: dollars which they, deserve and still DOESN'T i don't know

783
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 5: too many people that would, say, OH.

784
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 4: I GOT i got a deal for.

785
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 5: You you're gonna do ten twenty years in the most dangerous,

786
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 5: place one of the most dangerous places on, Earth like

787
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 5: you literally be better off trying to find diamonds in

788
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 5: a river In africa with with crocodiles and, hippos then

789
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 5: you would be In pontiac. PRISON i don't know too

790
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 5: many people that would, say, Ye i'll take that. Deal,

791
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 5: Yeah i'm gonna go do that ten years and give

792
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 5: me the money at the.

793
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 4: End so that's out the.

794
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 5: Window but the fact is that even the people who

795
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 5: do get compensated have to wait an incredibly long, time

796
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 5: years and years to get their, money and in the

797
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 5: meantime they're stuck in sort of a twilight. Zone, Right

798
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 5: and there's no better example than. YOURS i want to

799
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 5: talk about. THAT i want to hear it in your own.

800
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 5: Words the judge has just, said today's your lucky. Day

801
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 5: do you want to go? Home you And howard are, hugging,

802
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 5: right Mister. Howard and you didn't just walk out the. Door, No,

803
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 5: no there was a.

804
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: Process, oh the process is.

805
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: Terrible so after The sokar, release it took me almost

806
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: eight hours to get out of, that if not more,

807
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: so they run you right back through the. Process SO

808
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: i had to go back down in this dungeon in

809
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: the bottom of the county. Jail in the, bottom it's

810
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: the last basement in the county. Jail so it's really

811
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: pipes and plumbing and rats and everything just in this, place,

812
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: Right and it's a room a little bigger than this,

813
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: room and it's a pile of. Clothes so in these

814
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 2: pile of clothes used to close. Guys it's took off

815
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 2: coming in who slept in them maybe a week inside

816
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: one of these jails on the street and they make

817
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: you pick out some clothes out of this powder in order.

818
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 4: To walk out of, here and they haven't been.

819
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: Washed haven't been.

820
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: Washed oh, MAN i picked the biggest PIECE i could

821
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: so it wouldn't really be attached to. Me SO i

822
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: picked out a jigging, suit a black jigging suit with

823
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: a hood because the guard says raining outside real. Bad

824
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: SO i picked out it had a hood on. It

825
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: the suit LIKE i would extra. Large this suit had

826
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: to be a three x of four.

827
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: X it was so. Big the sleeves was hanging and

828
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: it stinks so.

829
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: BAD i mean reek of just, urine and you, know

830
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: BUT i had no choice IF i wanted to stay

831
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: another day in the county, jail another two days in

832
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: the county, jail because you get lost in that system so.

833
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 2: Easily SO i, said, No i'm gonna grab. Something SO

834
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: i grabbed that in the jigging pants.

835
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 4: And it held your nose, basically.

836
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: Yes and just got used to. It you, KNOW i

837
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: just lived in.

838
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 5: Filth and the issue was that because it took hours

839
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 5: and hours for this process to, happen Mister, howard COULDN'T

840
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 5: i like calling it Mister howard a legendary, too So

841
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 5: i'm picking up after. You so he wasn't able to, stay,

842
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 5: right he had another obligation of something he had to.

843
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: Go i'm, right so he went home to take care

844
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: of his. Wife but then we never know how long

845
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 2: you'll be. There he's not coming out in thirty, minutes twenty,

846
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: minutes you, know it's a. Process so, NO i didn't

847
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: want to make him, stay so he. Went he went,

848
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 2: home and at this, point nobody knew that this was

849
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: going to happen this, day so my family wasn't even,

850
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: there SO i just ended up just coming.

851
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: Out they FINALLY i put the clothes, on they put me.

852
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: Out they kept my forty three dollars and some eye.

853
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 5: Change, well your forty three dollars wasn't even. There it

854
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 5: was in a different, right so you had no ability

855
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 5: to access, that and they send you. Out what the

856
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 5: date of the release Was? May, right it Was may,

857
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 5: ninth But may is not. Exactly it's not warm at

858
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 5: night In may In, chicago so it's cold and, rainy.

859
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 1: Rainy, yeah and it's, Dark, yeah it's.

860
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: Dark AND i stood in the rain man for about three,

861
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: hours just, wondering trying to figure it. OUT i had

862
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: no money to get. HOME i had, nothing absolutely. Nothing

863
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 2: SO i was just standing, there soaking with freaking of

864
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 2: Old i've never experienced in my life until somebody pulled

865
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 2: up on me and, SAID i got one of my.

866
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: Buddies you, know he didn't even. Know he, Says so

867
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 2: what you're doing out? HERE i just broke? Out he,

868
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 2: Said so you need a, Ride so you, know guys

869
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 2: quick to help you if you committed a, CROWN i.

870
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 6: Guess and this isn't just any street. Corner it's twenty

871
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 6: six in Cow so that is the hub of The

872
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 6: chicago criminal court. System it's the busiest court system in the.

873
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 6: World it's not in a great. Neighborhood during the, day everyone's,

874
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 6: saying be, careful be, careful be careful when you go out.

875
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 6: There he has not been in society for over a,

876
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 6: decade and he has walked out onto this dangerous street

877
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 6: corner without a bus, cart without AN, id without a,

878
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 6: phone without frankly much of an, identity and just there you.

879
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: Go will people get killed right in front of the.

880
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 2: Building he just had an incident a couple of weeks,

881
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 2: ago a guy got. Killed right with all this police

882
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: activity he gets murdered right on the.

883
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 5: Street it's so interesting and it's uplifting because at the

884
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 5: end of the, day randomly in the city the size Of,

885
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 5: chicago your friend happened to be driving, by, like, yo

886
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 5: what are you doing? Here and, LIKE i, mean that's

887
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 5: another little, miracle, Right but.

888
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: Well i'm, BLESSED i know.

889
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 5: That, Yeah, well that's an amazing thing for somebody to

890
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 5: say that's been through ten years inside the most horrific prison,

891
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 5: system nightmare for something he didn't.

892
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 4: Do but it's a great way to look at.

893
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 5: It and the fact, is it's almost like the energy

894
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 5: feel that Mister howard, created and then this guy was

895
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 5: sort of an extension of, that like your other guardian.

896
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 5: Angels but there's no planet on which we should allow

897
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 5: somebody to emerge from this what sort of an extra

898
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 5: fuck you right, here get out of, here smelling like

899
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 5: you just rolled around in the you, know in the,

900
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 5: gutter and then good luck not.

901
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 4: Even like not even good.

902
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 5: Luck, NO i, Mean i'll get the hell out right

903
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 5: and if you get, killed you because we don't care

904
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,879
Speaker 5: about you before and we don't care about you. Now

905
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 5: i'm not saying they necessarily have to have a chariot

906
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 5: waiting for you with white horses or a golden thing or.

907
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 4: Whatever but a.

908
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: Bus ticket would have been. FINE a bus, TICKET a.

909
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 4: Phone, call, yeah that would have been.

910
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: Fun about a phone, call can somebody come give? Me

911
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: they don't give you any of, it they're not. RESPONSIBLE

912
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: a phone call would have been. Good phone, call, Great.

913
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 5: LAURA i want to turn to you because you have

914
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 5: a new book out WHICH i read AND i.

915
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 4: Love it's Called anatomy Of, Innocence thank.

916
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: You.

917
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 5: Yeah and in the, book you paired, exoneries Including, antoine

918
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 5: with legendary authors in order to tell their story in

919
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 5: a way that is particularly poignant and also really sort of.

920
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 5: Succinct so can you talk about that process BECAUSE i

921
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 5: love the book AND i hope everybody will check it.

922
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 4: Out anatomy Of, Innocence thank.

923
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 3: You.

924
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 6: Yeah it's Called anatomy Of, Innocence and we basically are trying,

925
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 6: to in, fact do what you're. Doing we're trying to

926
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 6: get inside the, mind inside the, soul behind the eyes

927
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 6: of someone who went through a wrongful. Conviction so we've

928
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 6: broken it down into. Stages the knock on the, door you,

929
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 6: know the first time you When antoine heard his, name

930
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 6: was getting batted. Around what do you do when you hear?

931
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 6: Guilty because every xonary thinks they'll here not guilty because

932
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 6: they can tell that the criminal justice system is not

933
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 6: working well because they're in it and they're. Innocent but

934
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 6: they all think they're hill not, guilty all of, them

935
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 6: and they hear. Guilty there's hearing all sorts of testimony

936
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 6: about yourself at, trial which isn't. True there's the walking

937
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 6: into prison for the first, time dealing with the crazies

938
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 6: that are in, there finding someone to get you, out

939
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 6: and then the fact that freedom is just the. Beginning

940
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 6: we wanted to show that sometimes they happen like, This

941
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 6: sometimes they happen like you see ON tv where you

942
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 6: see people outside holding up the, arms and other, Times

943
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 6: And antoine's is not the only Case i've heard of

944
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 6: about being released onto the street with. NOTHING i, mean

945
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 6: it's more frequent than.

946
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 4: Not it's just another bizarre aspect of the whole. Thing

947
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 4: so it is a bizarre.

948
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 6: Aspect and, frankly so many of these things are so.

949
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 6: Fortuitous and he said he feels. Lucky antoine, SAID i feel,

950
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 6: lucky AND i, think you, Know i've heard people say

951
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 6: that exoneries are the luckiest unlucky.

952
00:43:58,560 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: People AND i mean it was.

953
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 6: Strangey even WHEN i Met, ANTOINE i had taken another ex.

954
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 6: Hoonery antoine has been working in re entry since he got,

955
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 6: out AND i took another exonery to get services he

956
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 6: ran Into. Antoine antoine did not know he was an ex.

957
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 6: Hoonery Howard joseph had, died and he also didn't know

958
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 6: That illinois was one of the states that had, compensation

959
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 6: and he had about twenty eight days from the TIME

960
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 6: i met him to file or. Forever it's gone.

961
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 4: Forever hold your.

962
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 5: Piece so WHAT i took from the book also each

963
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 5: of those. Stories it's so. Fascinating, Again i'm getting the.

964
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 5: Chills you can't make these stories. Up and when you read,

965
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 5: them and when you read them written so beautifully by

966
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 5: such important literary figures as you have put together In

967
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 5: anatomy Of, NICs it's really it's a great experience reading the.

968
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 5: Book so tell us About life After, innocence because that's

969
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 5: a program you run At, loyola Right.

970
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 6: Life After innocence is a clinic At Loyola Chicago school Of,

971
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 6: law and we in fact have The Howard Joseph award

972
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 6: that we give every year in Mister howard's honor for

973
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 6: people who help the innocent without basically seeking compensation or.

974
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 6: Recognition so my law students AND i since two thousand

975
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 6: and nine have been representing x houneries to help them start. Over,

976
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 6: previously we did a lot. More when we started in

977
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 6: two thousand and, nine one or two people got out

978
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 6: a year in THE. Us now it's three a. Week

979
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 6: so now we're focusing primarily on criminal records, relief getting

980
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 6: their records, cleared because what most people don't know is

981
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 6: that When antoine walked, out even though his case had been,

982
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 6: overturned when he got pulled over by the, cops it's

983
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 6: still a convicted. Murderer so till someone goes in and

984
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 6: gets your record cleaned, up it's still on your. Record

985
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 6: doesn't matter even IF dna showed who it really, was

986
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 6: still on your. Record so we get that cleaned up

987
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 6: and then we push for, legislation which we've been successful

988
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 6: on so slowly we're adding to the services that ex

989
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 6: houneries get In.

990
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 4: Illinois that's incredible.

991
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,240
Speaker 5: Work AND i also want to just touch on Briefly Joseph,

992
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 5: howard who now has the award made. Death you can't

993
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 5: see it on the, radio AS i always, say But

994
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 5: i've been Watching antoine's body, language and every time this

995
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 5: man's name comes, up he sort of sits up straight

996
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 5: and starts smiling. Uncontrollably and for those of you.

997
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 2: Trying to start from, Crying i'm telling you, something, man

998
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 2: is this Is it always seemed to, Happen but this

999
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 2: guy has really touched my soul in the way that

1000
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: he operated and what he did for, me BECAUSE i

1001
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 2: only pay it forward and because of. Him because of, him,

1002
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: MAN i, mean it means a. Lot so, YEAH i

1003
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: carry him very, high you.

1004
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 5: Know AND i want to give a shout out to

1005
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 5: all THE i know there's a lot of attorneys that

1006
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 5: listen to the show who do incredible amounts of pro

1007
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 5: bono work on behalf of people like, yourself and to

1008
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 5: all of, THEM i just want to say that you

1009
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 5: have all of our respect.

1010
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 4: And appreciation because we couldn't do it without.

1011
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 5: You and if anybody is considering getting into the, WORK

1012
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 5: i encourage you to to meet somebody Like antoine and

1013
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 5: see what it's meant in a very personal and magical.

1014
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 5: Way so we will continue to Honor Joseph howard by

1015
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 5: continuing to support the work. Now as is a tradition

1016
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 5: on wrong for, conviction we always like to give you

1017
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 5: the exgnery the last, word so we'll turn it over to.

1018
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: You, Okay, well thank you so.

1019
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: MUCH i do appreciate being, here getting an opportunity to

1020
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 2: share and to enlighten people of what really goes on

1021
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: outside of just the, media and to thank people Like

1022
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 2: laura and yourself for having this. Platform but most of,

1023
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: ALL i like to say WHERE i am today is

1024
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 2: because of somebody's.

1025
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: Help the things THAT i do.

1026
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: Today i'm a court advocate for juvenile youth In chicago

1027
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: when they go to court.

1028
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: To make sure they're not wronged LIKE i.

1029
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 2: Was so when they get, ARRESTED i get a phone

1030
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 2: call and we appear in. COURT i support them also

1031
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: with the Family, AGAIN i work in one of the

1032
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 2: most harshest communities in the city Of chicago and throughout

1033
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 2: the state AT Bbf Family, services Where i'm able to

1034
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 2: give back to the community with Mister joe gave to

1035
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,479
Speaker 2: me Through loyola and working With laura and the things

1036
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: she did for me helped me. Create, also me And

1037
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 2: Jared adams helped me create life after.

1038
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: Justice even after.

1039
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: Her, work we continue to do, it so we are

1040
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 2: springboard off of what she. Did so what she has

1041
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 2: done for me is also paying it for it again

1042
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,479
Speaker 2: and making things happen when you can help somebody, Else

1043
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 2: and that's what we don't do enough of in this,

1044
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 2: country in this. World were more worried about other activities

1045
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 2: around the world when.

1046
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 1: We really flat on our back right.

1047
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 2: Here SO i just really appreciate the opportunity to say

1048
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: thank you.

1049
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: And keep it going and keep calling me BECAUSE i

1050
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: don't mind.

1051
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 2: COMING i believe in the, work and this is WHAT i,

1052
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 2: love you, KNOW i love giving it. Back like you,

1053
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,919
Speaker 2: said you, Know i'm. Inspired you KNOW i had a great.

1054
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: Mom i'm inspired by my, sister who you, KNOW i

1055
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: always say she talked too, much but then that particular

1056
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 2: time she talked at the right time in order to

1057
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: meet Mister joe's, son WHO i think not enough but

1058
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: as much AS i possibly.

1059
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 1: Can i'm very, grateful and LIKE i, Said i'm. Blessed

1060
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: i'm blessed to be in this in this particular position

1061
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: Where i'm able to help other. People that's HOW i help.

1062
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: MYSELF i need to be an Angel i'm trying to learn,

1063
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 2: it you, know, so Mister, Joe i'm trying to learn

1064
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: how to be that example he would be proud of

1065
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 2: me to.

1066
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 5: Be, WELL i THINK i can say that he would,

1067
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 5: be And i'm sure he. Is and you are a

1068
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 5: great example of everything that's good and right about this.

1069
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 5: Cause and people like you are the strongest forces we

1070
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 5: have because the stories are just so incredible and so,

1071
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 5: powerful and SO i appreciate you being here and sharing.

1072
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 5: THAT i KNEW i was going to learn something. That

1073
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 5: don't forget to give us a fantastic Review wherever you

1074
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 5: get your, podcasts it really. Helps And i'm a proud

1075
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 5: donor to The Innocence, project AND i really hope you'll

1076
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 5: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping

1077
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 5: to prevent future wrongful. Convictions go To innocenceproject dot org

1078
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 5: to learn how to donate and get. Involved i'd like

1079
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 5: to thank our production, Team Connor hall And Kevin. Wortis

1080
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 5: the music in the show is by three TIME oscar

1081
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 5: nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us On

1082
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 5: instagram At Wrongful conviction and On facebook At Wrongful Conviction.

1083
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 5: Podcast Wrongful conviction With Jason flahm is a production Of

1084
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 5: lava For good podcasts and association with Signal Company number

1085
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 5: one