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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: Let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: All right, good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. The Hunter

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Speaker 4: Biden fallout continues. We're going to start with that. We're

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Speaker 4: going to talk a little bit today about what Barack

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Speaker 4: Obama has to say.

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Speaker 5: Ryan, I think you have some thoughts on this.

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Speaker 6: He said wealth got concentrated and it just caused to

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Speaker 6: promise him that wealth.

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Speaker 3: It just got concentrated.

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Speaker 4: We'll see Brian's been spending some time with Sager this week,

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Speaker 4: so I'm curious to see if he's been radicalized in.

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Speaker 5: The other directions.

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Speaker 3: We'll see.

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Speaker 5: Maybe I'll be on the left in that one and Ryan.

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Speaker 3: Will be on the right. Maybe.

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Speaker 4: And then we're going to get to Donald Trump. There's

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Speaker 4: a court date that was announced for his documents trial

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Speaker 4: and all kinds of stuff continues to happen in the

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty four campaign because he sat down with Brett

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Speaker 4: Baer for a pretty interesting interview.

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Speaker 5: So that is coming up.

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Speaker 4: We're going to talk about the ruling that is expected

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Speaker 4: on student debt from the Supreme Court next week. We're

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Speaker 4: gonna talk about Andrew Taits case. Ryan has a great

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Speaker 4: monologue prepared for everyone on Venezuela. I'm going to talk

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Speaker 4: a little bit about the tragedy unfolding at sea right

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Speaker 4: now as the Titanic rescue efforts continue, and we're super

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Speaker 4: excited to be joined once again by Justin Goodman from

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Speaker 4: Whitecoat Waste, who's going to talk to us about more

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Speaker 4: lablaque evidence that Whitecoat Waiste and others have been uncovering.

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Speaker 5: Ryan, that's a lot. That's a lot for one.

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Speaker 6: Day, but the news doesn't and the Supreme Court is

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Speaker 6: possibly a gut the administrative state. Yes, make sure you

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Speaker 6: don't get student debt relief and eliminate affirmative action.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk about their upcoming cases.

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Speaker 4: Yes, we're expecting Supreme Court cases next Thursday, I believe

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Speaker 4: starting next Thursday, and that'll all be going on next week.

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Speaker 4: So but some big changes could be happening to the

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Speaker 4: country in the next week or so. You wanted to

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Speaker 4: mention a little bit about Virginia at the top here.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, real quickly. And so in Virginia, there were

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Speaker 6: primaries last night. The Working Families Party endorsed seven candidates,

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Speaker 6: which is a pretty decent proxy for kind of the

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Speaker 6: progressive verse, kind of centrist, moderate pro business wing of

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Speaker 6: the party. And of those seven, five of them swept,

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Speaker 6: including knocking out a couple incumbents who had been there

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Speaker 6: for a very long time. One of them called himself

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Speaker 6: a Joe Manchin Democrat, and other of whom have been

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Speaker 6: pretty right wing Democrat. The Virginia Senate Virginia House are

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Speaker 6: going to be much different than they were before. Dick Saslaw,

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Speaker 6: who's the I think has been Senate President since Thomas

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Speaker 6: Jefferson founded that state, probably even before that, is retiring.

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Speaker 3: He had this amazing quote in the Washington.

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Speaker 6: Post where he said, why do you want to run

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Speaker 6: these people out of office? He's talking to the voters

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Speaker 6: about these incumbents that are getting beaten, and he says,

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Speaker 6: vote for me.

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Speaker 3: I'm different their whole thing.

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Speaker 6: So he's angry that these candidates ran saying that they're

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Speaker 6: going to do something different and that voters elected them

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Speaker 6: on that platform.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's confounding, really why people want something new.

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Speaker 3: It's so crazy. It just might work.

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Speaker 5: I think Barack Obama might have an answer for him.

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Speaker 4: Yes, we'll get to that in the next segment, but

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Speaker 4: for now, the fallout from Hunter Biden. Again, Ryan and

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Speaker 4: Sager covered this yesterday, but he is going to plead

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Speaker 4: guilty to two tax misdemeanors. He struck a deal with

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Speaker 4: federal prosecutors where they are resolving that felony firearm charge

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Speaker 4: and that was all announced by the DOJ yesterday. They're

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Speaker 4: going to recommend a sentence, just a probation for those

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Speaker 4: tax charges that was in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 4: He owed like some hundred thousand dollars in federal taxes

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Speaker 4: in twenty seventeen and then yeah, at least one hundred

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Speaker 4: thy in twenty eighteen as well. So this is you

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Speaker 4: know that you have right off the bat, Tucker Carlson,

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Speaker 4: He's got his new show on Twitter, comes out swinging

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Speaker 4: with an episode, and we have some sound from that.

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Speaker 7: Here this morning. Hunter Biden pleaded guilty to pretty much nothing.

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Speaker 7: Biden pled to two misdemeanor tax evasion charges, then entered

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Speaker 7: a diversion on a federal gun charge.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 7: As far as Merrick Garland's Justice Department is concerned, Hunter

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Speaker 7: Biden is done. There was no pre dawn raid carried

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Speaker 7: live simultaneously on CNN. There was no purp walk, no handcuffs,

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Speaker 7: no press conference. Above all, there was no felony. Hunter Biden,

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Speaker 7: who broke federal gun laws can still carry a gun.

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Speaker 7: It's like it all never happened. In fact, the Justice

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Speaker 7: Department just baptized Hunter Biden. A lifetime of sins washed

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Speaker 7: away in an instant. It was a secular miracle. Most

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Speaker 7: miraculous of all, Hunter Biden somehow escaped a farret charge.

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Speaker 7: Farah is the Foreign Agent Registration Act, and it is

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Speaker 7: exactly what its name suggests. Under federal law, if you

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Speaker 7: are acting as an agent of a foreign nation in Washington,

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Speaker 7: you were required to register with our government to let

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Speaker 7: everybody know.

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Speaker 8: So.

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Speaker 4: Paul Maniford was locked up on a fair charge not

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Speaker 4: too long ago. On the other side of the aisle,

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Speaker 4: I think Tony Podesta was hit with one but didn't

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Speaker 4: get any time, and I want to say Gates did

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think somebody else he mentioned somebody else

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Speaker 6: from the Trump campaign who wound up getting hit with

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Speaker 6: one as well. Oh, Elliott Broydy. It was kind of

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Speaker 6: Trump Trump fundraiser.

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Speaker 5: Entirely fair, fair charge and all.

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Speaker 6: Yes, okay, some of these some of these folks are right.

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Speaker 6: And it raises the question, then, well, what was Hunter

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Speaker 6: Biden doing other than kind of lobbying. The only possible

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Speaker 6: defense I could imagine consultant for him would be that

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Speaker 6: he was such a bad lobbyist that he actually never

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Speaker 6: did any lobbying, and that prosecutors looked for any contact

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Speaker 6: that he made between himself and anybody in the government

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Speaker 6: to actually do the things that he told his clients

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Speaker 6: he was going to do and maybe couldn't find it,

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Speaker 6: because you do find you do see a lot of

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Speaker 6: emails where he's sending notes to his colleagues saying, Hey,

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Speaker 6: get this meeting for this guy, get this meeting for

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Speaker 6: that guy. It would be funny if the reason they

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Speaker 6: didn't charge him was because he just shirked his job.

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Speaker 6: Like I mean, we know that he was on a

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Speaker 6: year's long bender at this time, that he was supposed

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Speaker 6: to be doing foreign agent work, but literally he was

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Speaker 6: doing work for foreign governments, and not just foreign governments,

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Speaker 6: but like Burisman is not a foreign government, but it's

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Speaker 6: linked to the government, and it is.

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Speaker 3: You still have to register as a foreign agent.

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Speaker 6: If you're just serving on the board and giving them

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Speaker 6: advice on how to build a pipeline in Ukraine, then

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Speaker 6: you don't actually have to register. But that's not what

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Speaker 6: he's doing. He's not like an expert when it comes

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Speaker 6: to natural guests. His whole thing is influence. Maybe it's

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Speaker 6: just look, we got his name, he doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Have to do anything.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's an interesting point because he obviously was incompetent.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time, there are photos of his

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Speaker 4: clients on the golf course with his dad.

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Speaker 3: Or they got there. They clearly got there somehow and

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Speaker 3: they paid him and got there. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And we have evidence of him email wise setting

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Speaker 4: up meetings the Cafe Milano meeting for instance, which is

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Speaker 4: a super swanky restaurant in Georgetown, that his dad was

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Speaker 4: at the same place with his client. So I just

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Speaker 4: have a really hard time believing they didn't find any

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Speaker 4: reason to charge him with a fair violation they claim,

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Speaker 4: by the way, that the investigation is ongoing, so we'll

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Speaker 4: see if anything else comes of that. I also think

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Speaker 4: Tucker raises an interesting point of tension with the lefts

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Speaker 4: I guess stance on gun controls and gun control laws

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Speaker 4: and drug violations where it puts Hunter Biden right now.

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Speaker 5: For instance, Joe Biden himself has lobbied.

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Speaker 4: For people to have more to have more of a

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Speaker 4: stringent approach to if you are charged with a drug

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Speaker 4: and a firearm violation, that's actually a huge swath of

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Speaker 4: you know, of problems in the country, a huge swath

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Speaker 4: of crime. Is that combination of violating both a weapons

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Speaker 4: law and druggle at the same time. It's a combination

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Speaker 4: that Democrats and a lot of Republicans as well would

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Speaker 4: say should be a very big problem for someone who's

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Speaker 4: being charged in court and he's basically getting.

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Speaker 5: A slap on the wrist there.

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Speaker 3: And if we can actually put up a four on this.

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Speaker 6: You heard from Kodak Blacks lawyer, and you heard it

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Speaker 6: from a lot of different people. Wesley's you know people

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Speaker 6: we've mentioned Wesley Snipes on the show yesterday who went

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Speaker 6: to jail for not paying taxes, but here's Kodak Blacks

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Speaker 6: lawyer saying, look, you commit this crime, you're looking at

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Speaker 6: several years in jail, in federal prison.

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Speaker 3: Like that's it is extremely unusual.

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Speaker 6: Now, I think that on the left, at least now

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Speaker 6: maybe among the kind of democratic party, there's a lot

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Speaker 6: of resistance to seeing Hunter go to jail. I think

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Speaker 6: on the left, if you locked Hunter Biden up for

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Speaker 6: a gun charge or for foreign agent, you know, not

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Speaker 6: registering as a foreign agent. Okay, good, you got him,

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Speaker 6: try it, try lock him up.

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Speaker 4: The real life is not our boy, not the establishment democrat. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 4: of course, this is actually from the federalists. In twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty one, fewer than one percent of cases filed by

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Speaker 4: US attorneys and federal court resulted in the kind of

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Speaker 4: pre trial diversion offered to Hunters. So fewer than one

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Speaker 4: percent of cases. This is from Brett Tolman. He says,

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Speaker 4: if Hunters were a typical case, we would have expected

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Speaker 4: a much more aggressive deo j response. Mixing illegal drugs

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Speaker 4: and firearms is usually a quick trip to the land

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Speaker 4: of five or seven year mandatory minimum sentences. And again,

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Speaker 4: Hunter Biden is looking at probation essentially.

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Speaker 6: And I think the real story is that normally they

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Speaker 6: wouldn't have prosecuted it at all. They're only going after this,

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Speaker 6: They're only going after Kodak because.

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Speaker 3: It's like a famous rapper.

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Speaker 6: And if Biden hadn't run for president in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 6: they probably never looked at this even at all, and

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Speaker 6: so then when they finally had to look at it,

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Speaker 6: they're so reluctant to bring charges that they get this thing,

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Speaker 6: like you said, less than one percent. Just absolutely appalling

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Speaker 6: for anybody who thinks that there's kind of equal protection

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Speaker 6: under the laws. Joe Biden, who has consistently said my

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Speaker 6: son has done nothing wrong.

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Speaker 5: Which is now at odds with Hunter saying.

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Speaker 6: It felt like a lie, so brazen that it wasn't

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Speaker 6: a lie. It's like, it's like we have photos of

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Speaker 6: him doing things wrong all the time. And so for

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Speaker 6: you then say he wrote about it in his book,

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Speaker 6: for you to tell us to our faces that he

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Speaker 6: did nothing wrong, we know that you're either completely delusional

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Speaker 6: or you're just saying this because it's because your son. Anyway,

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Speaker 6: he was asked about it at an event about artificial

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Speaker 6: intelligence yesterday, and here here's what he said, real quickly

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Speaker 6: to day two.

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Speaker 5: I'm very proud of my song.

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump had a slightly different reaction. We can put

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Speaker 3: up a three.

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Speaker 6: Here's the Trump's truth social mostly all caps. The Hunter

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Speaker 6: Joe Biden settlement is a massive cover up and full

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Speaker 6: scale election interference scam in quotes the likes of which

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Speaker 6: has never been seen in our country before, a quote

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Speaker 6: traffic ticket, and Joe is all cleaned up and ready

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Speaker 6: to go into the twenty twenty four presidential election. And

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Speaker 6: this as crooked DOJ state and city prosecutors, Marxists and

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Speaker 6: communists all hit me from all sides and angels with bull.

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Speaker 4: Angels with bull he means angles with bullshit, but he

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Speaker 4: said angels with.

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Speaker 6: Bulls all sides and angles with bull bleep. I see

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Speaker 6: America great again.

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Speaker 4: I would listen to like asmr Ryan Grim reading Trump

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Speaker 4: social media boks.

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Speaker 6: I just accepted truth socials cookies. I wonder what I

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Speaker 6: don't wonder what weird virus. I'm going to wind up

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Speaker 6: on my luck on my laptop here. I mean, this

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Speaker 6: is bonker stuff. But he's not wrong that this is

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Speaker 6: not the kind of proportionate response a Department of Justice

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Speaker 6: is normally going to give to a defendant, but like Trump.

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Speaker 4: Also wants two tiers of justice for I'm sure Jared

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Speaker 4: Kushner and I'm sure himself in different cases and people

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Speaker 4: associated with him in different cases. And by the way,

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Speaker 4: there are two tiers of justice in the sense that

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Speaker 4: we've talked about this last week. There are charges in

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Speaker 4: you know, violations of the Espionage Act that Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: is being hit with that you could technically also probably

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Speaker 4: get Joe Biden with. Whether the case would have been

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Speaker 4: brought without the obstruction is another question. So in that sense, yes,

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Speaker 4: sometimes there are two tiers of justice. The entire Russia

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Speaker 4: collusion narrative.

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Speaker 5: Was spun up. The pis a warrant.

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Speaker 4: The lack of punishment for people, you know, you basically

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Speaker 4: just have Kevin Klinsmith getting in trouble. But that's sure,

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Speaker 4: we can all agree that's wrong. But that doesn't mean

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Speaker 4: that people in positions of power who are hit with

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Speaker 4: partisan justice really want there to be one.

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Speaker 5: Tier of just right.

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Speaker 3: Everybody wants there to be two tiers.

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Speaker 6: They just disagree on who belongs in which tier, and

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Speaker 6: they all agree that they don't belong in jail.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yeah, that's true. The New York Posts I

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Speaker 4: think raised a good question. They actually wrote an editorial

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Speaker 4: and they raised a question about the timing. So they say, again,

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Speaker 4: this investigation began back in twenty eighteen, and we know the.

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Speaker 5: Fed soon had enough evidence to convict them.

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Speaker 4: The chargers finally brought perhaps before and surely soon after

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Speaker 4: the twenty twenty election. Are we supposed to believe they

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Speaker 4: held off so long because they were looking into more

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Speaker 4: consequential crimes, only to suddenly decide that they couldn't prove

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Speaker 4: anything else. I think this coming a week after the

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Speaker 4: Trump charges down from Jack Smith, it is you know,

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Speaker 4: you were in the new election cycle.

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Speaker 5: It eerily.

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Speaker 4: Jonathan Turley predicted last August, so August of twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: two that the Hunter Biden chargers would end in quote

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Speaker 4: controlled demolition.

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Speaker 5: That's exactly what this feels saying.

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Speaker 6: What's so frustrating is that their added statement that the

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Speaker 6: investigation remains ongoing, because I don't really believe that it's ongoing.

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Speaker 3: If it were ongoing, great, can you know, continue.

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Speaker 6: To prosecute because there's a lot of stuff, like you

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Speaker 6: said the Cafe Milano meeting, like check that one out.

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Speaker 3: Did he arranged for that? If he did?

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Speaker 6: If you can prove it foreign Agent Registration Act violation.

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Speaker 6: But by saying that the investigation is still ongoing, what

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Speaker 6: it allows them to do is not comment on that

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Speaker 6: ten twenty three, that Comer is all Comber and Grass

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Speaker 6: are all fired up about, and anything else that involves

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Speaker 6: the case, well, we can't comment because.

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Speaker 3: Ongoing investigation. What can I do?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And on that note, that's another interesting point because

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Speaker 4: it's this entire, this entire question about Joe Biden twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty four election, Hunter Biden, the controlled demolition question, Like

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Speaker 4: all of this.

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Speaker 5: Is not improving anybody's.

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Speaker 4: Faith in our institutions, in our law enforcement, in the FBI.

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Speaker 4: And so now you have the very obvious controlled demolition

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Speaker 4: of Hunter Biden and the real question over and over again,

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Speaker 4: and Republicans that are sort of thirsty for, you know,

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Speaker 4: the bloodlust for the Biden family. They're not even great

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Speaker 4: at doing this themselves. This is about Joe Biden at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day. And right now all we're

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Speaker 4: talking about is Hunter Biden. And that's fine because there's

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Speaker 4: a good reason to talk about Hunter Biden. But the

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Speaker 4: Cafe Milano meeting, all of these different things that tend

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Speaker 4: for the big guy that's about the sitting president of

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Speaker 4: the United States, and all of that is first.

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Speaker 5: And foot and should be first and foremost on our mind.

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Speaker 4: But Hunter is such an easy side show because we

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Speaker 4: have the pictures from the laptop, and it's much easier

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Speaker 4: for the media to talk about Hunter Biden and for

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Speaker 4: Joe Biden to say he's proud of his.

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Speaker 5: Son and that's fine, he's a father.

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Speaker 4: Then actually focusing on what the sitting president of the United.

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Speaker 5: States might have been doing, it's a sideshow.

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Speaker 6: I think the silver lining from all this, though, is

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Speaker 6: that all of the existential angst of an anxiety of

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Speaker 6: going through this process is going to help Hunter produce

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Speaker 6: some of the greatest artwork that he's made in his career.

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Speaker 5: Maybe, so, let's hope.

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Speaker 6: And then again, those prints will be available for sale

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Speaker 6: for the low price of seventy five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 5: We should get one for the seven.

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Speaker 6: We're to a fundraiser from the audience. We're we try

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Speaker 6: to raise seventy five thousand dollars so that we can

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Speaker 6: get at least one Hunter print.

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Speaker 5: And maybe some access to Ukrainian oligarchs.

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Speaker 6: That's right, Oh, it'll pay for itself many times over.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's help absolutely.

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Speaker 4: Let's move on to his new comments made by former

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Speaker 4: President Barack Obama, who is on obviously the podcast circuit

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Speaker 4: right now, because what else.

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Speaker 5: Do you do?

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Speaker 3: Which is slaying in Netflix? His Netflix documentary?

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Speaker 4: I don't even know, so he's obviously not doing a

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Speaker 4: good enough job pedaling it.

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Speaker 3: Why isn't he here?

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Speaker 5: He can't be far. He must be in DC. He's

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Speaker 5: certainly close.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure he's doing by zoom.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's well, I guess yeah, you're probably right.

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Speaker 4: So on that note, speaking of which, if he is

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Speaker 4: doing it by zoom, his audio is fantastic. Let's listen

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Speaker 4: to this sound by a former president Barack Obama on

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Speaker 4: David Axterrod's podcast.

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Speaker 9: The crisis in democracy that you're seeing not just in

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Speaker 9: the United States but around the world is not solely

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Speaker 9: an issue of economics, but it is partially. These huge

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Speaker 9: economic disruptions. The speed with which wealth got concentrated, the

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Speaker 9: speed with which people's lives were disrupted, made people worried

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Speaker 9: and scared. And when people are worried and scared about

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Speaker 9: not just their future but their kids' futures, then the

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Speaker 9: appeal of right wing populism, the appeal of sort of

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Speaker 9: a more cynical view of the social order, and it's

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Speaker 9: dog eat dog, and you've got to kind of choose

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Speaker 9: up your tribe because it's a zero sum game. All

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Speaker 9: that stuff accelerates and expresses itself in our politics.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So he just said right wing populism there by

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Speaker 4: the way, which is really interesting from the man who

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Speaker 4: when he was leaving office his own.

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Speaker 5: Party rigged a primary.

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Speaker 4: And still you have the surge of a populist like

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Speaker 4: Bernie Sanders that is able to nip at the heels

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Speaker 4: of the former Secretary of State, former first Lady who

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Speaker 4: has basically the entire apparatus of the party behind her.

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Speaker 4: And he's just talking there about the concentration of wealth

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Speaker 4: accelerating a rise of right wing as he says, populism,

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Speaker 4: and not looking at the other side of the coin

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Speaker 4: in that analysis at all, which I actually think is

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Speaker 4: pretty interesting.

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Speaker 6: And what's interesting too is that, and I cover this

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Speaker 6: moment in my last book, is that he sounds a

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Speaker 6: lot like Elizabeth Warren in of twenty eleven talking to

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Speaker 6: Barack Obama.

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Speaker 5: Right, So, Occupy Wall Street is happening at that.

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Speaker 3: Docum Wall Street.

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Speaker 6: He brought her in to set up the Consumer Financial

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Speaker 6: Protection Bureau, and then she left to go after it

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Speaker 6: was set up to go run for Senate in Massachusetts.

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Speaker 6: And so Obama and Warren had kind of an exit interview,

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Speaker 6: first time really that she gets some actual time with Obama,

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Speaker 6: and she says, basically this to him, that wealth, the

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Speaker 6: wealth concentration, wealth got concentrated, the concentration of wealth that

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Speaker 6: he's allowing and engineering to happen is going to produce

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Speaker 6: an inequality that is itself then going to express itself

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Speaker 6: in our politics in the form of right wing popular

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Speaker 6: and that's the kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: She was saying. And she zeroed in on housing because this.

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Speaker 6: Is at the height of the eviction crisis, of foreclosure crisis,

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Speaker 6: and that has been the thing that has ripped.

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Speaker 3: The fabric of our society, you know, the.

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Speaker 6: Most completely, is the inability of people to live that

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Speaker 6: American dream. The social contract is always involved being able

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Speaker 6: to own a home and grow your wealth through that home,

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Speaker 6: and then the American people then, you know, look the

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Speaker 6: other way on all of the other terrible things that

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Speaker 6: are happening, because that's the thing that is kind of

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Speaker 6: the promise in return, you're going to be able to

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Speaker 6: retire on that you can pass it down to your

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Speaker 6: kids whatever. Now you can't even afford rent. Ten years

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Speaker 6: on from her warning after that meeting, and she said,

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Speaker 6: you've got to do something policy wise about about where

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Speaker 6: this is headed.

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Speaker 3: And he's like, I love to hear your ideas are

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Speaker 3: out of time here.

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Speaker 6: Email me and and we'll talk, you know, and you know,

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Speaker 6: my secretary will give you my personal email. As she

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Speaker 6: as she leaves, she tells the secretary what he said.

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Speaker 6: She's like, yeah, just just email me. I'll make sure

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Speaker 6: he gets it. And they basically never talked about that

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Speaker 6: ever again.

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Speaker 3: But it's so it's.

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Speaker 6: Funny to hear him say it now. But I'm curious

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Speaker 6: for your take on this, because I think feel like

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Speaker 6: you somewhat disagree with what he's saying here. There are

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Speaker 6: a lot of Democrats who also disagree and feel like

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Speaker 6: he is downplaying the role of kind of racism and

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Speaker 6: hostility to immigrants and migrants that fueled right wing populism

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Speaker 6: around this time. And I get beat up every time

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Speaker 6: I point to, you know, economic cataclysms as producing some

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Speaker 6: of these anxieties that, as he says, express themselves in

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Speaker 6: our politics.

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Speaker 3: So curious where you come down on that.

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Speaker 4: I think it's definitely the combination. I think you would

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Speaker 4: still have it. Without one, you would still have the other,

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Speaker 4: and you would still have.

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Speaker 6: I think without without the economic crisis, you'd still have

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Speaker 6: right wing populism, and.

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Speaker 4: Without the cultural changes you would still have populism, because

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Speaker 4: both are pretty severe. I see, because the rapid concentration

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Speaker 4: of wealth happened very quickly and especially hit certain era

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Speaker 4: is in the Ross Belt, for instance, and Obama actually

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Speaker 4: was reacting to that in two thousand and I actually

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Speaker 4: thought in this clip he was going to go into

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Speaker 4: clinging to guns and religion, one of the most famous

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Speaker 4: quotes that he had based the same thing, almost exactly

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Speaker 4: the same.

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Speaker 3: He's on the same theme, Yeah, almost.

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Speaker 5: Exactly the same thing.

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00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 4: And interestingly enough, he was the other side of that

444
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 4: coin back in two thousand and eight when he was

445
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 4: sort of casting aspersions at right wing populism. He was

446
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 4: doing this populism that was left wing but really more

447
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 4: palatable to everybody kind of across the board, like a

448
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 4: very sort of centrist hope and change type populism, talking

449
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 4: about any of the war things that everyone was in

450
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 4: agreement with.

451
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 5: At the time.

452
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 4: And then on the other side of this, he you

453
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 4: could just look at the mergers that were allowed to

454
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 4: happen under his watch that as Matt Stoller I think

455
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 4: really appropriately points out, this was not just an economic

456
00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 4: disruption to borrow the president's word, this was also cultural disruption.

457
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 4: So as you have wealth concentrating via these mergers, you

458
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 4: also have power over speech concentrating, and you create ideological monopolies.

459
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 4: So both are happening at the same time. You know,

460
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 4: when you create economic concentration, you're also when you create

461
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 4: wealth concentration, or you allow it to happen just sort

462
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 4: of passively, as he says, it just it just happened.

463
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 5: I wouldn't have had anything to do with that.

464
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 4: When you do that, you're also concentrating power. And I

465
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 4: think when I look at the Culture War, for instance,

466
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 4: those Dear Colleague Letters on Title nine that created basically

467
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 4: kangaroo courts on college campuses, that were these he I mean,

468
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 4: those were sparks of the culture War flame.

469
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 5: That's where you end up hurdling into gamer Gate.

470
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 4: That's where you end up hurtling into the Dear Colleague

471
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 4: letters on Title nines that said gender identity would be

472
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 4: conflated legally with biological sex. And that was just via

473
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 4: a letter from the Department of Education under Barack Obama,

474
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 4: that was his policy.

475
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 5: Kimiopolia at the.

476
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 4: Time said she was like, that's when I knew that

477
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 4: Hillary Clinton was losing the election. I saw the Obama

478
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 4: administration did that.

479
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 5: Because it's just so divisive.

480
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 4: There was his immigration policy, where he basically just waived

481
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 4: a magic wand and used executive powers in a way

482
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 4: that a lot of people on the left encouraged him

483
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 4: to that.

484
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 5: I mean, I would argue, you probably just agree with

485
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 5: this created de facto open borders.

486
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 4: The Beer Summit, which was I think a way that

487
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 4: handled the skip gates, the Henry Lewis Kates thing an

488
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 4: incredibly divisive way. I think he really fanned the flames

489
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 4: on a culture.

490
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 3: Though it's like the Summit bringing people together over beer.

491
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 5: He didn't have to weigh in on it.

492
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that's why the entire weighing in

493
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 3: on right.

494
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 4: But it wasn't an easy position for him to be in.

495
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 4: I like, actually was just talking about this yesterday. He

496
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 4: was in one of the least enviable positions as the

497
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 4: first black president, and there was never going to be

498
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 4: an easy way to sort of weigh in on those issues.

499
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 4: I think a lot of what he did was counter productive,

500
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 4: But you know, I don't begrudge him.

501
00:24:59,200 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 5: I don't.

502
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 4: I think those pretty difficult position to be in. But

503
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 4: on a lot of different levels, he fanned the flames

504
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 4: of both I think wealth concentration and that sort of

505
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 4: ideological monopolization that came to dominate elite circles by the

506
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 4: end of his presidency. And you have both Bernie Sanders

507
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 4: and Donald Trump as a reaction to both of those things.

508
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 4: You know, Bernie Sanders did not go on Broad City

509
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 4: like Hillary, but that would be mine takeaway.

510
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 6: And I don't want to defend Barack Obama, but on

511
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 6: the on the question of kind of black lives matter

512
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 6: and racial justice and the way that he interacted with

513
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 6: that rising energy, I feel like he gets a bump.

514
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 6: You're giving him a bum rap there in the sense

515
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 6: that for the first like four or five years of

516
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 6: his administration. And I was critical of him at the

517
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 6: time for not saying enough, for being somebody who and

518
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 6: as he's talked about since, because he was the first

519
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 6: black president, he felt like he couldn't say things that

520
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 6: perhaps even Joe Biden would have said. And then some

521
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 6: things just get to a point where you're just being

522
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 6: irresponsible if you don't weigh in on it, or or

523
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 6: you get asked about it.

524
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 3: And you answer the question like this.

525
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 6: You know, there was this famous case if people want

526
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 6: to go back and look it up, where Henry Louis

527
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 6: Gates as Harvard professor's in Cambridge. He's coming back from

528
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 6: a trip, He's got his luggage on his porch and

529
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 6: he locked himself out and the Cambridge police arrest him.

530
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 6: Which two people like Barack Obama who have been followed through,

531
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 6: you know, a Macy's for no doing nothing different than

532
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 6: white people walking through a Macy's. They hear that and

533
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 6: like enough of this, Like let's let's let's say something

534
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 6: about this. Maybe we maybe we're at a place where

535
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 6: we can actually talk about this and move beyond it.

536
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 6: And a lot of people on the left like ridiculed

537
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 6: the whole idea of a beer summit like that, it

538
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 6: didn't even deserve that level of like why are you

539
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 6: coddling this kind of attitude rather than just denouncing it.

540
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 6: But yet, and it shows how intractable this stuff is

541
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 6: that that if it's if it's the case that from

542
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 6: the right, that was viewed as like, how dare you, like,

543
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 6: why are you instigating?

544
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 4: Uh?

545
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 3: Why just just leave just leave well enough alone.

546
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,239
Speaker 4: No, I mean I think so we definitely don't need

547
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 4: to religate the beer some myself probably.

548
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 3: That I remember it was the cop got a blue moon.

549
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 6: I respected that because it's like that's like oftentimes a

550
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 6: politician who is like trying to be working class but

551
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 6: really wants a blue moon isn't going to.

552
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 3: Do It's not gonna put fruit in their beer. But

553
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 3: you're confident about your your social status and your working

554
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 3: class status, and give me the blue moons. It's paid

555
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 3: for by the White House. I'm getting the blue moon. Yeah,

556
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 3: you have the bud light enjoy you can't have the

557
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 3: bud light anymore.

558
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 4: Though I thought, I don't like indulging. I don't think

559
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 4: that there was I think what we learned, I think

560
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 4: was that basically there was no racial animus in that situation,

561
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 4: as entirely understandable as you said for people who have

562
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 4: been followed through Macy's, Henry Lews Skates or Barack Obama.

563
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 5: As entirely understandable as that is.

564
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 4: I think having the commander in chief indulge charges of

565
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 4: racism for a cop who was just doing his job

566
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 4: as representative as that actually is that you have sensitivities

567
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 4: on both sides, from people that were defending the police

568
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,239
Speaker 4: and people who were defending skip Gates. I completely get it,

569
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 4: but I think elevating that to the level of the

570
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 4: White House was a telling mistake that Obama made early

571
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 4: in his presidency. And again I don't envy him at all.

572
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 4: That was an incredibly difficult position to be in, but

573
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 4: when I look back on that, I think there was

574
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 4: sort of indulging the language that has come to be

575
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 4: really divisive.

576
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 5: Not an easy thing for him to do, though I

577
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 5: don't know.

578
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 3: It just doesn't seem fair to say you just can't

579
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 3: talk about this that It's like.

580
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 4: I think the way he talked about on the campaign

581
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 4: in two thousand and eight was really unifying, and then

582
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 4: I think something shifted after he was in office and

583
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 4: he was being forced to respond to cultural things that

584
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 4: were happening the people that he wasn't in charge of

585
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 4: in the media, for instance, who spread abject lies about

586
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 4: what happened in Ferguson for a really long time. He

587
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 4: was then forced to grapple with that in a way

588
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 4: that was unfair to him, But I think he made

589
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 4: some tactical errors that did inflame tensions.

590
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 6: It's also the case that the country is often willing

591
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 6: to speak about kind of racial harmony in general terms,

592
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 6: but then when it gets to specifics, everyone's like, huh, yeah,

593
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 6: I'm not so sure about in this case, but generally speaking.

594
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 6: I was listening to that actle Rod interview, and one

595
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 6: thing that struck me about it was they start the

596
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 6: conversation going back over his two thousand and four convention

597
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 6: speech with the famous lines, you know, there's no liberal

598
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 6: or American conservative America, or no red states and blue states.

599
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: There's the United Dates we all worship blah bla blah.

600
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 6: Today on the left, you would get canceled for yes,

601
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 6: for saying that. To say that there's no white American,

602
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 6: no black American, no brown America, no like that, that

603
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 6: would be erasing identities.

604
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 3: And it reminded me.

605
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 6: Of how close to the nineties Obama's kind of rise was,

606
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 6: Like Obama's a very is a creature of the nineties,

607
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 6: which very much did have that attitude. This two thousand

608
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 6: and four that he's given his speech. But you wouldn't

609
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 6: have a presidential candidate talk that way on the Democratic

610
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 6: side anymore. Now, that would be much more kind of

611
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 6: Republican rhetoric, cynically, kind of weaponizing that Martin Luther King

612
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 6: same as Martin Luther King line.

613
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 4: Yes, well, Martin Luther King has some lines that would

614
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 4: get him canceled from the left as.

615
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 6: Well, and probably probably also had some lines that gotten killed. Yes,

616
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 6: But anyway, Supreme Court, or do we have Trump that.

617
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 4: We've got Trump next, because we have to keep talking

618
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 4: about Trump.

619
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 5: Otherwise we as people in the media, we shriple up

620
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 5: and die. We don't get our Trump picks.

621
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 4: Speaking of which, Donald Trump has a court date August August,

622
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 4: Judge Eileen Cannon, I'm mean from the Washington Examiner.

623
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 5: Right now, we can put that element up on the screen.

624
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 5: Set the date.

625
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 4: The first court date for the former presidents classified documents

626
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: trial a little over a week before the first GOP

627
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 4: primary debate. It's in the US District Court for the

628
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 4: Southern District of Florida. That is going to begin on

629
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 4: August fourteenth, twenty twenty three, per a court filing that

630
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 4: hit on Tuesday. She said, in the filing that the

631
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 4: deadline for both parties to submit pre trial motions and

632
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 4: motions in le mean, am I saying my Latin correctly,

633
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 4: That means in the beginning is July twenty fourth, twenty

634
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 4: twenty three. Now, CBS News makes a really good point

635
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 4: and says, quote that date is likely to change as

636
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 4: Trump's legal team files requests with the court that could

637
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 4: result in the trials. So that July twenty fourth pre

638
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 4: trial motion deadline is really important because they are expected

639
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 4: to file before that. There's expected a file motion before that,

640
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 4: which would change the date from that week before the

641
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: first debate. So the trial date is August fourteenth. This

642
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 4: is actually it sounds counterintuitive, but this is a if

643
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 4: you're Donald Trump, this is a blessing going into the

644
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 4: first debate.

645
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 5: This is such a gift.

646
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 4: You're like, I'm going to be in court a week

647
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 4: before the first debate.

648
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 5: Bring it on.

649
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 4: That puts me front and center in the conversation. Nobody

650
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 4: else will be able to get any oxygen. And I

651
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 4: am going to be once again the avatar of normal Americans.

652
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 4: As he says, They're not coming after me, I'm just

653
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 4: they're coming after you.

654
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 5: I'm just in the.

655
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 4: Way what gives them a better platform to make that

656
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 4: message then coming out of court and into the debate.

657
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 4: But it actually looks like that debate that date before

658
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 4: the debate probably won't happen because they'll probably be submiting

659
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 4: pretrial motions.

660
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 3: Right.

661
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 6: And also, the process for these cases is first of all,

662
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 6: wildly unconstitutional but has never been tested at the Supreme

663
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 6: Court because it is so slanted against defendants that defendants

664
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 6: always take plea deals in these situations. But basically, because

665
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 6: there are classified documents involved, the jury is restricted on

666
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 6: what it's able to see, even though the jury has

667
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 6: to then make its decision based on what it's not

668
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 6: able to see. And so the process to allow attorneys

669
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 6: to view the documents, to allow the judge to see

670
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 6: the documents to then write their briefs from secure areas

671
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 6: ends up adding exponential complications to this process, which is

672
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 6: another reason that this could get punted well into the future,

673
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 6: particularly since this judge, Judge Cannon, doesn't have much experience

674
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 6: doing trials period I think like five days or something

675
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 6: of criminal like trials. Right, Trump appointing at the very

676
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 6: end of his term, so therefore has very little experience

677
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 6: with criminal trials and none with these kinds of trials.

678
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 4: So Donald Trump has been The foctions has been airing

679
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 4: in two parts. Donald Trump's interview with Brett Baerr. He

680
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 4: sat down with Brett Bearer for a pretty long interview

681
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 4: and some new clips came out last night. Hard to

682
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 4: pick from the best, it really is, because one we're

683
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 4: going to play in a minute is almost unbelievable.

684
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 3: But oh, the death penalty for the drug dealers. That's

685
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 3: a fun one, right.

686
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, he weighs in on Alice Marie Johnson and Brett

687
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 4: Baarer pushes him a little bit. But let's start with

688
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 4: Donald Trump being pushed on the nickname d sanctimonious.

689
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 5: You can roll that.

690
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 8: Because he has bet apr than other governors. But other

691
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 8: governors did a better job than run to Sanctimonious. So look,

692
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 8: why did you use that name? Because I got him

693
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 8: elected and I thought it was very disloyal, And he said, yes,

694
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 8: I got him past two racist, I got him past

695
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 8: the primary because he was losing by thirty points or more.

696
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 5: So, he's a soyalty question. Yeah, I'm a big loyalist.

697
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 8: Yes, some people say, some people right here in this

698
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 8: room have told me, sure, don't worry about loyalty. Loyalty

699
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 8: doesn't mean anything in politics. I said to me, it does.

700
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 5: I got the guy elected.

701
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 8: He came to see me, let's say, weeping, because he

702
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 8: was dead.

703
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 5: He was getting out of the race.

704
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 8: He was looking for jobs already, probably at law firms

705
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 8: or wherever he's going to look. He was totally dead.

706
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 8: He ran a horrible campaign. He was running against Adam Putnam,

707
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 8: the Agriculture commissioner, who was running for that position for

708
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 8: eight years. Putnham at thirty eight million dollars. Ron had

709
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 8: nothing zero. Putnam was at forty percent. Ron was at

710
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 8: three percent. It was like a white pant. The election

711
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 8: was going to be very soon. I said, you're dead.

712
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 8: If George Washington endorsed you, you're not going to win.

713
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 8: He said, sir, if you endorse me, I think I

714
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 8: could win. And he fought for me, along with Jim

715
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 8: Jordan and hundreds of other people. In all fairness, he

716
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 8: was fine, but he fought. But I would see him

717
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 8: everyone sort of fighting on the impeachment oaks. So I

718
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 8: didn't know Adam Putnam, so I said, let's give it

719
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 8: a shot. I endorsed him, and it was like a

720
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 8: bomb went off. As soon as I endorsed him. He

721
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 8: won the primary.

722
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 7: It was over.

723
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 8: He won by a landslide. But then I had him

724
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 8: to get him past gilm who is a rock star.

725
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 8: He was going to be the next president of the

726
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 8: United States. He was the biggest guy in the party.

727
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 8: Him and female very Stacy Abrams. Right, these are the

728
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 8: two hottest politicians and the Democrat Party. And Ron said,

729
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 8: there's no way I can beat him. I said, you're

730
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 8: going to beat him. I did three rallies.

731
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 3: God bless you, thank you so much.

732
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 8: So we had big, messive rallies for three of them.

733
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 8: I said, you're gonna win. He ended up winning. He

734
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 8: ended up winning by and the three years later they

735
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 8: say to him, then, I didn't do it.

736
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 3: I didn't know him that well three years later, but

737
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 3: I got him elected.

738
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 8: But I did that with other people too. But you

739
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 8: know what, just out of respect, So I said, three

740
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 8: years later, they asked him, are you going to run

741
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 8: against the president? He said, I have no comment.

742
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 5: I said, no comment. No comment means he's going to run.

743
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 5: I said, this guy's gonna run.

744
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 4: So Donald Trump is actually one hundred percent accurate in

745
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 4: saying that his endorsement was crucial to Ronda Santas and.

746
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 3: Be off on the numbers slightly, but maybe slightly.

747
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 4: But Ron de Santis knows that because he ran ads

748
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 4: at the time emphasizing over and over again how close

749
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 4: he was and how Maggie he was. Basically, there's that

750
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 4: famous out of him with his kids in his living room.

751
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 5: Where isn't the.

752
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 3: Kid building a wall with blocks building a wall?

753
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very clearly Ron de Santas endorsing the argument

754
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 4: that Donald Trump just made about the Trump endorsement being

755
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 4: absolutely critical. The loyalty part is really interesting because I

756
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 4: would say Trump doesn't hold up his end.

757
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 5: Of the bargain.

758
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 4: I'm a loyalty question of people in Republican politics learned

759
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 4: that lesson the hard way that when Donald Trump says

760
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 4: loyalty is really important to him, he does think it's

761
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 4: important to him. I think very clearly Donald Trump thinks

762
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 4: loyalty is important to him, but it seems like a

763
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 4: one way street when you look back on his history

764
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 4: with certain advisors.

765
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 5: What did you make of that clib.

766
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 6: One quick ironic interlude here, which is that the DeSantis

767
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 6: and Gillham election one of the great hingch points in

768
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 6: American politics because this came down to just thirty thousand votes,

769
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 6: like an extremely close race. The only reason that DeSantis

770
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 6: ends up winning this election is because of FBI election interference.

771
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 6: There's your iron there's your irony, and where's Trump and

772
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 6: denouncing this. FBI came in and leaked that there's an

773
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 6: investigation into Tallahassee, but that it was focusing on Gilham

774
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 6: because Gillam got some Hamilton tickets through his brother, and

775
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 6: that Gilliam said he thought his brother had reimbursed the

776
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 6: person that he got the Hamilton tickets from, but apparently

777
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 6: his brother did not or cousin or whoever did not reimburse,

778
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 6: so they went to Hamilton and they didn't pay for

779
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 6: their tickets.

780
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 3: And this became a gigantic.

781
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 6: Scandal in like a week or two before the election,

782
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 6: and you can and you can see his momentum kind

783
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 6: of dampen, and you can imagine that the tiny margin

784
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 6: point four percent that Desanta's won by was made up

785
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 6: entirely by the FBI creeping in and flipping that election

786
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 6: to the Santa. Now later, Gilim has had a lot

787
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 6: of personal problems.

788
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 3: We wish, we wish him well, and those you can google. Those,

789
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 3: we don't. We don't need to get you need to

790
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 3: get into all that.

791
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 6: But Trump is right that he was next president of

792
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 6: the United States level level rock star, and that if

793
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 6: not for that uh last minute FBI election interference, he

794
00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 6: probably wins. But broadly speaking, yeah, Trump is just he's

795
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 6: just shocked that somebody would challenge him.

796
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 3: How dare he right?

797
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 4: Well, and it's not even so much a lack of

798
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 4: loyalty as it is in politics. People obviously have different

799
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 4: reasons for I mean, running against someone I guess.

800
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 5: Is a breach of loyalty.

801
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 4: But people believe in their own careers and their own missions,

802
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 4: and that's obviously baked into politics, and Trump is sort

803
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 4: of rejecting that when it comes to him. Interesting enough,

804
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 4: Now this next clip we teased it.

805
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 5: You're going to enjoy it.

806
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 3: It's wild, it's wild. So this is so just to

807
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 3: set this up, because the.

808
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 6: Whole exchange with between Bear and Trump on the question

809
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 6: of capital punishment for drug dealers is worth watching.

810
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 3: It's way too long to play the entire thing. So

811
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 3: to set it up, Bear is they're into it a

812
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: little bit.

813
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 6: Trump earlier had been talking about Alex Johnson, who he

814
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 6: loves to bring up because, you know, helping get her free.

815
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 6: She was facing a fifty year sentence for drug dealing.

816
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 4: Kim Kardashian, Jared Kushner, UNKA Trump all team up, get

817
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 4: the First Step Back.

818
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 3: First Step Act.

819
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 6: And so it's this weird exchange between Baron Trump where

820
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 6: Bear is pointing out to him that he's getting criticized

821
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 6: from the right for being too soft on criminal justice

822
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 6: because of the First Step Act. Well, meanwhile, he's sitting

823
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 6: there calling for the people that he freed to be executed.

824
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 6: And so let's see how he sorts this out in

825
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 6: his mind.

826
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 5: So even Al Shotson in that ad, she can't do it.

827
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 8: Okay, by the way, if that was there, no, she

828
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 8: wouldn't be killed. It would start as of now, so

829
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 8: you wouldn't go.

830
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:30,959
Speaker 5: To the head.

831
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 8: But your policy, no, I'm starting now. Yeah, But she

832
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 8: wouldn't have done it if it was death penalty. In

833
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 8: other words, if it was death penalty, she wouldn't have

834
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 8: been on that phone call. She wouldn't have been a dealer. Now,

835
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 8: she wasn't much of a dealer because she was sort

836
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 8: of like I mean, honestly, she got treated terribly she

837
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 8: was treated. She was treated sort of like I get treated,

838
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 8: but Bret, she was treated very unfairly. But she got

839
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 8: forty eight years and that was Ben. Now today, if

840
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 8: I did what I say that you have to do,

841
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 8: and again, I'm not sure the country is ready for it.

842
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 8: You know, China was hugely one hundred and fifty years ago.

843
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 8: China was taken over by much lesser countries because they

844
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 8: were all drugged out on the opium and.

845
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 5: All the problems Communist regime. They well, they drove the hammer.

846
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 8: They were all drugged out and they were totally they

847
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 8: were a disaster. They were taken over by other smaller countries,

848
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 8: large sections of China, and then things happened and they

849
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 8: had strong leadership and they put in the death penalty

850
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 8: and they've become they've been able to build. But if

851
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 8: you speak to the president, he will tell you without

852
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 8: the death penalty, we would have a non functioning country.

853
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 6: So the earlier part is wild, where he's talking about

854
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 6: capital punts for the drug dealers and Brett bears like

855
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 6: even Alice Johns.

856
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: He's like hmm.

857
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 6: He starts to think like they said, well, she wouldn't

858
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 6: because she'd be so scared of me that she wouldn't

859
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 6: deal the drugs in the first place. And then as

860
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 6: you see, he transitions into the most praise that anyone

861
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 6: has given Chairman Mao from either party since the founding

862
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 6: of the Chinese Communist Party.

863
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 3: I would suspect, say what you will about Mao.

864
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 5: He had control, he did, he.

865
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 3: Did have controls.

866
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 5: Basically, yeah.

867
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 6: And it's funny because she she uses this phrase change

868
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 6: is not seen in one hundred years, changed in one

869
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 6: hundred hundred and fifty years. And what he is saying there,

870
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 6: what she has pointed to the exact same thing.

871
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 3: Yes, that that China.

872
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 6: Was getting beaten down by the by the world stage,

873
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 6: pieces is getting taken by Japan, and this.

874
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 5: That, and then everyone's high.

875
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 6: Everyone's high because because the British forced opium onto the population,

876
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 6: and when the Chinese resisted it, the British went to

877
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 6: war Low opium war to force them to continue to

878
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 6: buy opium to fund the kind of British imperialism, British colonialism.

879
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 6: And so then Mao takes over and they become they

880
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 6: you know, they return to the place and they're on

881
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 6: their way to return to the place that they feel

882
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 6: like they've always belonged on the stage. So to hear

883
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 6: Trump kind of celebrating that all the way through and

884
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 6: linking it to the death penalty for drug use just

885
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 6: kind of wild. And so I'm curious. On the Republican side,

886
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 6: we're what eight years into Trump on the national political stage,

887
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 6: so we're used to this sort of stuff, but this

888
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 6: is whiplash of kind of an even greater degree. Does

889
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 6: or does it not matter?

890
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 3: How does it?

891
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 6: Does it matter that he's on the one hand defending

892
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 6: the First Step Act and on the other hand saying

893
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 6: that maybe if the country's ready for it, but they're

894
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 6: probably not ready for it, but if they are, maybe

895
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 6: we should execute drug dealers.

896
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 5: I think it matters only on the margins.

897
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 4: So I think there's a chance that seeing Donald Trump

898
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 4: look so unfamiliar with his own legislation and touting Alice

899
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 4: Johnson's story and Brett Bair, who I think conducted a

900
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 4: great interview pushing back and saying she was running a

901
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 4: cocaine ring essentially, and that doesn't reflect on my stance

902
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 4: about her sentence, But that's what Donald Trump is being

903
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 4: confronted with, right, and that might not have been what

904
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 4: Jared was telling him but or what Kim Kardashian was

905
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 4: telling him, but by his own sort of standards of

906
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 4: death penalty or not. It just made him look like

907
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 4: he lacked leadership skills because he didn't He wasn't even

908
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 4: familiar with his own laws and how they would be applied.

909
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 4: And then got you know, really, and that's when people

910
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 4: do interviews with Donald Trump that aren't policy focused.

911
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 5: It's such a disservice to.

912
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 4: The public because you can really learn so much about

913
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 4: Donald Trump when you ask him specific questions about policies.

914
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 4: And that's what Brett Bair does in this interview, like

915
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 4: I think really gets to the bottom of the way

916
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 4: Trump sees drug policy, for instance, and that's very useful.

917
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 4: The DeSantis team definitely thinks that the First Step Act

918
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 4: is of vulnerability for Donald Trump. Now I believe Desanta

919
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 4: has actually voted for the First Step Act he was

920
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 4: still in Congress.

921
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 5: But because Donald Trump.

922
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 4: Made a big deal of it, and did you know,

923
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 4: head Kim Kardashian there and has touted it for a

924
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 4: long time and was really the person who is his administration.

925
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 4: You know, shepherded this through Congress. Because crime has become

926
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 4: a really huge hot topic for Republican voters. They believe

927
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 4: this is a vulnerability for Donald Trump that if they

928
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 4: can get him to talk about the First Step back,

929
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 4: this is Pedro Gonzalez talking about this is someone who

930
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 4: is he's with the Claremont Institute, I believe, and he says, quote,

931
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 4: this is someone Trump who has no idea how government

932
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 4: cannot accept the fact that he made mistakes.

933
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 5: And if Trump cannot admit fall on.

934
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 4: Something like the First Step Act, he is completely incapable

935
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,479
Speaker 4: of leading. And so Trump critics see the First Step

936
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 4: Act in particular as vulnerability. I would say expect it

937
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 4: to come up more often during the primaries.

938
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 6: Right, and because it freed what a thousand, it barely

939
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 6: freed anybody. Like the frustration among criminal justice reformers was

940
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 6: that all of the energy that went into passing this

941
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 6: act could have just been spent on commuting sentences of

942
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 6: individual people one by one, because it freed so many people.

943
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 6: But it sounds like that somebody who got freed was

944
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 6: in the Latin Kings or something and went on and

945
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 6: committed a crime, killed somebody in a bar.

946
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 3: But he had he had been in for drugs.

947
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 6: Because like, if you free several thousand people from prison statistically,

948
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 6: Statistically like some out of thousands of people, some people

949
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 6: are going to commit crimes in the future, whether they

950
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 6: were in prison before or not. If they were in prison,

951
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 6: they're probably slightly more likely to commit crimes, not necessarily

952
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 6: because they are criminals, but because they have just spent

953
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 6: years in an institution surrounded by criminals. And so yeah,

954
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 6: so I guess you're going to see like Willie Horton's

955
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 6: style stuff of like, look, individual crime happened the criminal

956
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 6: was in jail, wouldn't have happened if he was still

957
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 6: in jail. Therefore Trump is responsible for this like that

958
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 6: that'll kind of be the argument.

959
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, so here's Pere should he's with the Charlomagne Institute

960
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 4: and Chronicles magazine, not Clermont, but he said he brings

961
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 4: up this old Tucker Carlson report. In twenty nineteen. Of

962
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 4: the twenty two one hundred roughly inmates twenty two hundred

963
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 4: and forty three inmates released under for as Step, only

964
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 4: nine hundred and sixty were incarcerated for drug related offenses.

965
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 4: On the other hand, four hundred ninety six were in

966
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 4: prison for weapons and explosive related crimes. Two hundred and

967
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 4: thirty nine for sex offenses, one seventy eight for fraud,

968
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 4: bribery and extortion, one hundred and eighteen for burglary, larcenary larceny,

969
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 4: and one hundred and six for robbery. According to the data,

970
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 4: another fifty nine were imprisoned over homicide aggravated assault, forty

971
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 4: six for immigration related defenses, nine for counterfeiting embezzlement, and.

972
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 5: Two for national security reasons.

973
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 4: So that is again like expect to hear more of that,

974
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 4: for sure, because I think Trump opponents see that in

975
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 4: particular as crime has risen in some cities unevenly of course,

976
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 4: but as that has happened, and as you have had

977
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 4: you know, the sort of left wing prosecutors respond to

978
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 4: it in a way that you see maybe a cause

979
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 4: and effect in places like San Francisco and the pivot

980
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 4: from London breed. That's where folks that are running against

981
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, I think see a.

982
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 6: Real soft spot, and he thinks he can harden that

983
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 6: up by saying, well, kill him.

984
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 3: I'm just going to kill them all.

985
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 10: Yeah.

986
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh.

987
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 6: By the way, I forgot to mention, at the very

988
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 6: top of the show in Fairfax, they went after the

989
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 6: reformist prosecutor and lost. So another case of the media

990
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 6: kind of blaming criminal justice reformer prosecutors for you know,

991
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 6: people being anxious about crime and then voters going to

992
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 6: the polls and reelecting those very same people in blue areas.

993
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 4: Exactly in blue areas. It's not always the golden ticket

994
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 4: that I think people on the right believe it to be,

995
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 4: depending on the location and depending on the messaging. Obviously,

996
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 4: speaking of crime, let's move on to the news about

997
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 4: Andrew Oh.

998
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Supreme Court Court.

999
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 4: We're going to get to crime and entertain in just

1000
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 4: a moment. But the Supreme Court as.

1001
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 5: Riots then on a crime spree.

1002
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,959
Speaker 4: From a conservative perspective, this is why it Ryan says

1003
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 4: crime spree. There are a lot of decisions that could

1004
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 4: be coming out of the Supreme Court basically the next week,

1005
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 4: on student loan debt, on the Chevron doctrine, which is

1006
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 4: something you'll hear tossed about in beltway circles or ivory towers,

1007
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 4: but is hugely consequential for the executive branch, and on

1008
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 4: affirmative action. So when Supreme Court decisions from this last

1009
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 4: term are announced in the coming days, this is a

1010
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 4: hugely consequential moment for people, obviously who have outstanding student

1011
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 4: loan debt. It will be a big deal for the

1012
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 4: executive branch and probably a very big deal for people

1013
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 4: in college admissions offices and students around the country.

1014
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 5: Start with student loan debt. We can put up the

1015
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 5: tear sheets.

1016
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 3: C one.

1017
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 4: This is from CBS News. The finances of about forty

1018
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 4: million Americans with college loans are hanging in the balance

1019
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 4: as borrowers await the Supreme Court's ruling on the legality

1020
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 4: of President Biden's plan to forgive up to twenty thousand

1021
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 4: dollars in student loan debt. Borrowers could face a double

1022
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 4: whammy the summer Supreme Court rules against the debt forgiveness plan.

1023
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 4: As the Court's decision is likely to land just before

1024
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 4: the pause on debt repayment lifts in September, the Court

1025
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 4: is scheduled to release its next decisions on Thursday morning.

1026
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 4: In the worst case scenario, CBS continues, borrowers will face

1027
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 4: restarting their loan payments in September without any debt release.

1028
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 4: This is being challenged in a couple of different ways.

1029
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 4: And you'll remember back when Oral arguments happened in the winter.

1030
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 4: The Supreme Court was very hostile to what the Biden

1031
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 4: administration did. As far as you can read the tea

1032
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 4: leaves from the questionings in the hearing, it was pretty favorable.

1033
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 5: It seemed to be.

1034
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 4: Pretty unfavorable to the Biden administration. But they're being challenged

1035
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 4: on basically this question of you're using an emergency declaration

1036
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 4: to pass the student debt forgiveness and to sort of

1037
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 4: waive the wan and say it was going away. And

1038
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 4: you have states Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, and South Carolina.

1039
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 4: You have a lawsuit from the Job Creators Network Foundation

1040
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 4: or Conservative group. They're saying basically this was illegal, this

1041
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 4: was Actura constitutional, and those Republican states were saying it

1042
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 4: was a financial setback for them because you're going to

1043
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 4: get quota reduction in business. This from CNBC among the

1044
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 4: companies that service federal student loan debts in their states,

1045
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 4: So that would be, for instance, the Missouri Higher Education

1046
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 4: Loan Authority couldn't meet its financial obligations to the state,

1047
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 4: is the argument because of that decreased revenue.

1048
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 5: And there's also a question of standing that.

1049
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 3: Could hurt as related to that right.

1050
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 4: Yes, So this is there's a lot on the line basically,

1051
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 4: and the Supreme Court decision is imminent.

1052
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 6: And what this really shows is how bs all of

1053
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 6: the kind of legal arguments are on both sides. Because

1054
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 6: to me, just objectively speaking, if you step back and

1055
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 6: look at the Heroes Act that this was written under,

1056
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 6: this was a kind of post nine to eleven law

1057
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 6: that said, in the event of a national emergency, the

1058
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 6: Department of Education has the ability to pause, suspend, or

1059
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 6: cancel student debts. And so we had a national emergency COVID,

1060
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 6: it was declared as a national emergency and as a result,

1061
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 6: as a policy response to Department of Education under Trump

1062
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 6: paused the student debt, and then the Department of Education

1063
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 6: under Biden determined that the smartest policy would be to

1064
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 6: cancel a certain amount of it using the authority that

1065
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 6: was created in two thousand and one or after the

1066
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 6: two thousand and one attacks, and to invalidate that to me,

1067
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 6: says that you're requiring then Congress. You're basically telling Congress

1068
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 6: that they're not allowed to anticipate future events and put

1069
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 6: laws in place to allow a government to react to

1070
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 6: those events. If you can't say in the event of

1071
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 6: an emergency, you have this authority because you have to

1072
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 6: come back twenty.

1073
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 3: Years later and say no, no, no.

1074
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 6: When we said emergency, we actually meant all emergencies, like

1075
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 6: not just this emergency, but other declared emergency, even though

1076
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 6: the law says, you know, declared emergenci. It's like, it's

1077
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 6: very clear, but I don't think it matters the Supreme

1078
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 6: Court if they don't want to allow it, they're just

1079
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 6: gonna not go ahead and allow it. To your point

1080
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 6: on standing, there's been this fun whack a mole between

1081
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 6: people who are trying to strike down the law or

1082
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 6: the executive action for political purposes because they don't like it,

1083
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 6: and the problem that they need to find somebody who's

1084
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,760
Speaker 6: harmed by it. It's exactly how do you find somebody

1085
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 6: who's harmed by other people just not having to pay

1086
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 6: their debts. And so at first they found somebody who

1087
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 6: because they got their debt.

1088
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 3: Waived, now they owed some taxes.

1089
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 6: They're like, oh, I hate taxes, so I'm suing, so

1090
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 6: I don't so I can pay the debts instead of

1091
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 6: the taxes. And the Biden administration quickly said, Nope, that's moot,

1092
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 6: because now it's optional.

1093
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 3: You don't have to take this free money that we're

1094
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 3: giving you.

1095
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 6: Therefore you have no tax obligations like ah dang and

1096
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 6: I forget. There was another one and then they and

1097
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 6: then they wound up with this one where they went

1098
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 6: to this Missouri company which has not paid its quote

1099
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 6: unquote obligations to the state of Missouri for fifteen years.

1100
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 6: And so the state of Missouri is saying, well, now

1101
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 6: it's not going to be able to pay its obligations

1102
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 6: to the state to us, but they haven't paid for

1103
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 6: fifteen years and you haven't cared. And the company itself,

1104
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 6: there's a great story if you can put up the

1105
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 6: second tear sheet here. Employees at this company are all

1106
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 6: furious that they've been roped into this. Mohila itself is

1107
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 6: not participating at all. Amy Cony Barrett said during the trial,

1108
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 6: or said during the oral arguments, if Mohila was here,

1109
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 6: they would have standing. Mohila is very conspicuously not here,

1110
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 6: like they're not interested in this. One of the employees

1111
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 6: is probably in their slack or whatever, said are we

1112
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 6: the bad guys? Like how on earth are we being used?

1113
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 6: And so basically Missouri's argument this triple Bank. Shot is

1114
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 6: that Mohila would have more business if you keep more

1115
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 6: people burned with debt. And if Mohila has more business,

1116
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 6: then there's a better chance that Mohila then kicks money

1117
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 6: over to Missouri, even though Mohila has not kicked money

1118
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 6: to Missouri for fifteen years. So it's all commpletely fake

1119
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 6: and just political.

1120
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 4: So what's actually really interesting about that is it's not

1121
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 4: entirely dissimilar from what's on the table with Chevron, and

1122
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 4: the Chevron doctrine.

1123
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 3: Is a explain that.

1124
00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 5: So Chevron.

1125
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 4: With Chevron, this is a huge, huge, First of all,

1126
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 4: it was a huge boon to the left, like this

1127
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 4: was a really big gift to and I don't mean

1128
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 4: that in a sort of pejorative sense, like this basically

1129
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:13,280
Speaker 4: created the administrative state. This basically allows the administrative state

1130
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 4: to use executive powers in a very broad scope to

1131
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 4: do some really everyday governing at for instance, the EPA

1132
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 4: or the Department of Education. Because this I'm reading from

1133
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 4: Cornell Law School, which has a lot of really helpful

1134
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 4: legal information, but just so we have a precise definition

1135
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 4: from them. In Chevron, the Supreme Court set forth a

1136
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 4: legal test as to when the court should refer to

1137
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 4: the agency's answer or interpretation, holding that such judicial deference

1138
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 4: is appropriate where the agency's answer was not unreasonable. And

1139
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 4: here's the key part, so long as Congress had not

1140
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 4: spoken directly to the precise issue at question, this is

1141
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 4: where the Heroes Act is actually pretty interesting as well.

1142
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 5: From the student debt question, you see the executive.

1143
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 4: Branch using that deference, that question of deference to the

1144
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 4: Secretary of Education that was granted in the hero Act,

1145
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 4: and you see people on the right saying, well, this

1146
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 4: is clearly extra constitutional.

1147
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 5: This was never a constitutional.

1148
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 4: Power that should have been delegated to the Education secretary,

1149
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 4: and this is an inappropriate use of it anyway. But

1150
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 4: because we have, for instance, we've talked about this a lot,

1151
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 4: the vaccine mandate requirement that Joe Biden implemented was he

1152
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 4: used an obscure provision from the OSHA legislation, the legislation

1153
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 4: that Richard Nixon pass that essentially created OSHA. You can

1154
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,919
Speaker 4: sort of pull out from these things and stretch them

1155
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 4: to meet different authorities from the executive and on the

1156
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 4: left mint the coin for instance, like there's all of

1157
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 4: this sort of creative ways that you can get from

1158
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 4: point A to B with executive power and actually do

1159
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 4: things in the absence of Congress's ability to do anything

1160
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 4: anymore because of tribalism and partisanship. That has a deadlock,

1161
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 4: maybe a Madisonian deadlock, but a deadlock nonetheless. And so

1162
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 4: that's why Chevron is, I would say, in terms of

1163
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:03,919
Speaker 4: conservative efforts target the administrative state, that is like number one,

1164
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 4: Chevron is, this is like a gift, like you're putting

1165
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 4: Chevron on a silver platter for the Supreme Court or

1166
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 4: the with the divide that's at that it has right now,

1167
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 4: the division between conservative and liberal justices.

1168
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 5: This is a really big deal.

1169
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 4: It's a very big deal for agencies that have been

1170
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 4: doing sort of business as usual for a long time,

1171
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 4: taking these authorities where Congress, to borrow the fresh from Cornell,

1172
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 4: had not spoken directly to the precise issue at question.

1173
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 4: They'd been taking that authority upon themselves could be tied

1174
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 4: up in tons of legal battles. That every day functioning

1175
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 4: of these agencies is on the table in a way

1176
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 4: that you know, I think we've dramatically expanded the scope

1177
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 4: of regulatory power of the administrative state in ways that

1178
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 4: why we're talking about gas stove bands. Why we're talking

1179
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 4: about you know, the way Title nine functions in very

1180
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 4: specific ways and very specific schools has been harmful.

1181
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 5: But the way this is on the table is vast.

1182
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 3: I think they're going to do it.

1183
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 5: Yes, I guess would be Yes.

1184
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 3: They're going for it.

1185
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 5: There's a question as to whether they.

1186
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 4: Go all the way or they just sort of nibble

1187
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 4: around the edges of Chevron as.

1188
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 6: We know it, whether they want war or they want

1189
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 6: guerrilla war against the state. I think they want war

1190
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 6: against the state, but I think that they're not sure

1191
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 6: if they have the troops for it.

1192
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's this would be a big change

1193
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 4: to the everyday function of Washington, DC. I mean, these administrations,

1194
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 4: these administrative agencies have exploded really because of Chevrone deference, and.

1195
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 6: It would hasten I think the constitutional conflict with the Court.

1196
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 6: I'm like, yeah, like the Court is already teetering on

1197
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 6: it's on the authority that it that it kind of

1198
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 6: spent on overturning Roe v.

1199
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 3: Wade.

1200
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 6: Yes, And so if they then say, oh, and also,

1201
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 6: by the way, the EPA is not allowed to function,

1202
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 6: You're going to take Democrats who are just normally rank

1203
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 6: and file folks, We're like, you know what for at

1204
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 6: the Supreme Court? Ignore it. We're done with the Supreme Court.

1205
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 6: And I'm reading what's the line he's made for that?

1206
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 6: Andrew Jackson said, he made his ruling, I'll let him

1207
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 6: enforce it.

1208
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 5: Let him enforce it.

1209
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 4: Well, I'm reading here from a Federal Society block where

1210
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 4: they they call Chevron quote the most notorious decision in

1211
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 4: administrative law. And this is Remember, the Federal Society had

1212
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 4: a lot of say in the judges that court. And

1213
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 4: I don't mean that in a Sheldon white House sense

1214
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 4: where it's like, you know, he's doing the Charlie Kelly

1215
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 4: on the whiteboard, like this is all a grand conspiracy

1216
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 4: of Federal Society money going to the Supreme Court. It's

1217
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 4: this idiological miliu that, you know, the Federal Society I

1218
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 4: think has the right stance on Chrevron. But I imagine

1219
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 4: if we're trying to guess where the Supreme Court is

1220
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 4: going to land on Chrevron, I imagine it's it's going

1221
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 4: to go in one very particular direction. And that ideological

1222
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 4: milieu is basically at a consensus on affirmative action, and

1223
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 4: that's on the table as well.

1224
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 3: So some really kind they'll win that one.

1225
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely, because Santra de O Connor herself, in a

1226
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 4: pretty important decision on this question, said it is a

1227
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 4: temporary It's meant as a temporary measure to achieve, you know,

1228
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 4: to get from A to B. And so when you

1229
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 4: have that as precedent, yeah, I think it's very vulnerable.

1230
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 4: And again they're coming from an ideological milieu where there's

1231
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 4: basically a consensus on Chevron Chevron and affirmative action.

1232
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 3: And there's an interesting argument made on the left. I

1233
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 3: think it's by Richard Collenberg.

1234
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 6: People can search that up that that argues that if

1235
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 6: affirmative action is overturned, because it is still a value

1236
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 6: held by so many institutions and universities, the value diversity,

1237
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 6: that they will that they will be forced to rely

1238
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 6: on class diversity in order to achieve identity diversity because

1239
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 6: we are so far away from an equitable society that

1240
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 6: it is the case that black students are much more

1241
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 6: likely to be poor in working class than white students.

1242
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 6: And so if you then use a class lens, which

1243
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 6: is constitutional and legal, in order to increase the number

1244
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 6: of working class and poor people, that you have in

1245
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 6: your institution. You will also, as a function of that,

1246
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 6: increase the number of black students that you have as well.

1247
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 4: Some more just mechanism to get to the point anyway

1248
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 4: from my perspective, but.

1249
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 6: A lot of these institutions don't want poor in working

1250
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 6: class people, so it will be the values that they

1251
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 6: have intention and we'll see how they sort that out.

1252
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, they meet their quotas through for instance, boarding schools.

1253
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 4: We're going to take you know, people from the spoorting school,

1254
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 4: but we're going to make it diverse.

1255
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 3: Matthew Iglesias jokes that he like, he went to.

1256
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 6: Harvard and one or both of his parents are like

1257
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 6: Cuban descended, and so he's like they were able to

1258
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 6: check a box because of Matthew Iglesias, and nobody, as

1259
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 6: he would acknowledge, nobody pretends that like that is the goal, right, Yeah.

1260
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 4: No, that's absolutely true. So I am looking forward to it,

1261
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 4: but you may not be.

1262
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 5: Moving on.

1263
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 4: We're going to talk right now about Andrew Tate. There's

1264
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 4: been some developments in Andrew Tate situation. This is from

1265
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 4: the last of post Romanian prosecutors announced Tuesday that Internet

1266
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 4: personality and self described misogynist Andrew Tate and his brother

1267
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 4: have been indicted on charges of human trafficking, rape, and

1268
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 4: forming an organized crime group. I'm going to keep reading

1269
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 4: from the post here because it's very specific and it's

1270
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 4: useful to be precise. The indictment marks the end of

1271
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 4: a criminal investigation into Tate and two Romanian associates, as prosecutors.

1272
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 5: Referred the case for trial.

1273
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 4: The prosecutor statement said the injured parties were quote sexually

1274
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 4: exploited by group members and forced to produce online pornography

1275
01:03:55,280 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 4: through acts of quote violence and mental coersion. The legal

1276
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 4: team for the Tape brothers described the move as quote

1277
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 4: undoubtedly predictable. They're putting forward this basically stance that they're

1278
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 4: kind of excited and eager to confront these charges because

1279
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 4: quote it will undoubtedly substantiate the brothers claims of innocence.

1280
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 4: To remember, they were arrested in Romania in December. They

1281
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 4: do have dual British and American citizenship. They were moved

1282
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 4: to house arrest back in March. Prosecutors are saying that

1283
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 4: they these four Tait and his brother and the other

1284
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 4: two formed a crime group for human trafficking in Romania

1285
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 4: Britain and the United States.

1286
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 5: Here's more from the prosecutors.

1287
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 4: The injured persons were recruited by the foreign nationals by

1288
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 4: misleading them about the intention to establish a marriage slash

1289
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 4: cohabitation relationship and the existence of real feelings of love.

1290
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 4: That one of the suspects charged with rape in relation

1291
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 4: to two incidents back in March of twenty twenty.

1292
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 5: Two, so over a year ago, according to prosecutors. What

1293
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 5: do you make of it?

1294
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 6: Ryan, You know, it's important to keep in find the

1295
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 6: whole idea of innocent until proven guilty. But these guys

1296
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 6: look guiltier than Trump, even on the classified documents charge.

1297
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 3: You know, we'll see what evidence comes up. But we have.

1298
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 6: Their own testimony kind of through their videos that they

1299
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 6: do where they talk about ways that they groom young

1300
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 6: women and traffic them basically over to Romania and then

1301
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 6: persuade them into into staying and becoming basically sex slaves.

1302
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 6: Now they're arguing that that is all done consensually. They

1303
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 6: prosecutors also have what at least seven witnesses, and so

1304
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 6: depending on what you hear from those witnesses, if they

1305
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 6: can add even one notch to what they have already

1306
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 6: said publicly. They then you have a pretty slam pretty

1307
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 6: slam dunk case.

1308
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 4: So there are messages where tit has explained to one

1309
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 4: of the women that he used a webcam business to

1310
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 4: quote launder money, and that he'd been teaching men to

1311
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 4: start their own quote. It's all a cover, he wrote,

1312
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 4: Washington Post said, assuring her she could trust him. He

1313
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:14,919
Speaker 4: told the victim that he'd meet her in Romania after

1314
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 4: taking care of some work in Prague, and spoke about

1315
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 4: the prospect of marriage.

1316
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 5: This is from a tape message.

1317
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 4: I want to know that you are determined serious about marriage.

1318
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 5: So all of that is very is obviously very critical

1319
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 5: to the case.

1320
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 3: The boyfriend method.

1321
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 6: Yes, there's some question about if that's all it is,

1322
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 6: if it's just hideous and disgusting, or if it's a crime.

1323
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 6: I'm fine these guys getting locked up for even just

1324
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 6: what they've been saying publicly, But it does appear that

1325
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 6: it goes even beyond that. That there's you know, the

1326
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 6: charges talk about you know, violence, it's not just mental

1327
01:06:58,080 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 6: COORDI but also violence.

1328
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 4: And you know this is this is going to be

1329
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 4: a real going forward and already we've already seen it happen.

1330
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 4: But the proliferation of hardcore pornography has made this a

1331
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 4: real problem for the coast. So both the proliferation of

1332
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 4: hardcore pornography and the proliferation of sort of text message

1333
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 4: based sexual relationships and relationships in general brings this evidence

1334
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 4: in and then the tape brothers can claim this is

1335
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 4: consensual and that in some sense it was part of

1336
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 4: the sexual relationship to if the women claim otherwise, there

1337
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 4: and they're in a lot of trouble and it appears

1338
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 4: like that's likely that the women will claim otherwise. Well,

1339
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 4: and that's what's so I think disturbing is that you

1340
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 4: can have evidence of something being on its face problematic,

1341
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 4: and people can claim that it's consensual, and you know,

1342
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 4: if that is popularized and becomes sort of normalized, it's

1343
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 4: it's a very serious problem for both men and women

1344
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 4: as that kind of stuff happens in the future. It's

1345
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 4: a big problem for courts in our legal system. It's

1346
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 4: a big challenge for courts in the legal system. But

1347
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 4: it's not great for men or for women because it

1348
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 4: makes it really really hard to get justice.

1349
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 3: Related to this. I wanted to get your thoughts on

1350
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 3: a new piece.

1351
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 6: If you can put up this second element here as

1352
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 6: a tweet from my colleague Martaza Hussein, who's sharing a

1353
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 6: new article in New Lines magazine which is headlined how

1354
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:36,600
Speaker 6: Andrew Tate and the far right made common cause with Islamists.

1355
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 6: Subhead Western groups find in Muslim communities what they believe

1356
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 6: is a prototype for a social contract free of wokeism

1357
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 6: and women's liberation. Story by Rassha al Akadi and Lydia Wilson.

1358
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:54,600
Speaker 6: I suggest people check it out, but it opens with

1359
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 6: a couple examples of things that we've probably all we've

1360
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 6: all seen kind of as we've watched watched online culture evolve,

1361
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 6: which is dudes who started out as like proud islamophobes,

1362
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 6: whether in post nine to eleven or more recently burning

1363
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 6: the Qouran, you know, warning of the kind of the

1364
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 6: Muslim hordes are going to take over Europe in the

1365
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 6: United States and the Hamas is coming through the southern border,

1366
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 6: and those same not just that, not just that political tendency,

1367
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 6: but that too, but those same dudes now completely lining

1368
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,440
Speaker 6: up with a kind of much with a very conservative

1369
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 6: interpretation of Islam and going to protests where o Kurana

1370
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 6: is being burned and protesting that saying how dare you

1371
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 6: and seeing in their warped vision a like based like

1372
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 6: as they describe a prototype of a society that's free

1373
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 6: of Wolchism and the dudes over at Chopo trap house.

1374
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 3: Since elsewhere I have been like, have been predicting this arc.

1375
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, that a lot of these right wing influencers are like,

1376
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 6: why don't they just just cut out the middleman and

1377
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 6: go straight to kind of far right Islam?

1378
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 3: And here we here, we're seeing it develop.

1379
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1380
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 4: Well, this is another really interesting tweet from Martaza. He says,

1381
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 4: when I first moved to the US, I was actually

1382
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 4: surprised how many Muslims were sympathetic to the GOP, even

1383
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:29,560
Speaker 4: in post nine to eleven years, and in places like

1384
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 4: Chicago and Michigan suburbs, they were just waiting for a

1385
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 4: moment they became ten percent less hostile to return. And

1386
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 4: the Michigan suburbs have been interesting Deerporn area because we've

1387
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 4: seen the conservative Muslim communities in the Dearborn area make

1388
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 4: common cause with They.

1389
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 3: Had that Pride fight recently.

1390
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 4: Recently Pride fight, but also the books and schools like

1391
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 4: it was in the fall around an election coming together

1392
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 4: and making a very robust protests, and I think a

1393
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 4: morally correct protests would probably disagree on that against books

1394
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 4: in schools, And then you had the American Federation of

1395
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:11,679
Speaker 4: Teachers on the other side of it, siding with the schools,

1396
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 4: and it's just like, Yeah, these things getting mixed up

1397
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,639
Speaker 4: is completely fat, fascinating and blended together.

1398
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 5: There's some talk in sort of conservative circles.

1399
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 4: About the phenomenon of young men following Andrew Tait. I

1400
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 4: don't think it's Tate specific. I don't think it's Islam specific.

1401
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 4: I do think you're going to see healthier this kind

1402
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:38,919
Speaker 4: of two sides of the coin, like people's angs, especially

1403
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 4: young men's angs, and anguish in this world where it's actually.

1404
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 5: Very difficult for young men and young women too.

1405
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 4: If we're seeing depression rates increase, we're seeing all kinds

1406
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 4: of really bad metrics increase when it comes to mental

1407
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 4: health and physical health. Some people are going to take

1408
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 4: that out in a healthy way. Some people are going

1409
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 4: to find really unhealthy ways to channel it, and misogyny

1410
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 4: is going to be one of those ways. And I'm

1411
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 4: not saying that's affiliated with religion at all. I'm saying

1412
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 4: it's affiliated with in this case entertate, and that that

1413
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 4: sort of version of masculinity that's less less than healthy.

1414
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 4: We'll say, toxic masculinity is a real thing. It's not

1415
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 4: masculinity itself. And I think that's a mistake the left

1416
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 4: off and makes when they talk about mass toxic masculinity.

1417
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 4: They act as though masculinity is necessarily toxic. There are,

1418
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 4: of course, expressions of masculinity and femininity that can be toxic.

1419
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,880
Speaker 4: And I think the more we see people try to

1420
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 4: find relief from the pains of living modern life, they're

1421
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 4: going to go in both unhealthy and healthy places, and

1422
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 4: entertate would be an unhealthy place right.

1423
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 6: And Islam, just like Christianity, you know, lives on a

1424
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:54,600
Speaker 6: spectrum from you know, liberal to almost secular, all the

1425
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 6: way over to the far to the far right. And

1426
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 6: I'm curious if the kind of Republicans are seeing a

1427
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:07,679
Speaker 6: real opening here because it has always struck me as

1428
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 6: an odd alliance that you had so many kind of secular,

1429
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:19,839
Speaker 6: borderline atheist liberals allying with explicitly conservative Muslims in ways

1430
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 6: that they would not align with.

1431
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 3: Explicitly conservative Christians.

1432
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 6: And I feel like maybe they felt comfortable making that

1433
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 6: alliance because the numbers were so.

1434
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:36,440
Speaker 3: Small because it was politically convenient, right, and they weren't.

1435
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 6: They could be for pluralism as long as the conservative

1436
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 6: Muslim portion of their coalition stayed below twenty percent or

1437
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 6: something like that. And pluralism's fine if they're fifty plus

1438
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 6: percent and have voting power. And you saw some liberals

1439
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 6: in that Michigan town saying, wait a minute. When we

1440
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 6: were in power, you know, we were pluralistic. You know,

1441
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 6: we made sure that there were ordinances that allowed for

1442
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 6: the call to prayer to happen five times a day.

1443
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 6: Now you're in power and you're not operating in a

1444
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 6: pluralistic way.

1445
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 5: But what is pluralism.

1446
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 3: Well, I think pluralism is fairly Polarism is kind of like, I.

1447
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 4: Don't know, because you can't have pluralism if you're saying

1448
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 4: that it's hate speech to refuse to use compelled speech

1449
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 4: so like preferred pronouns for instance, and you disagree on.

1450
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 3: What it is that wouldn't be pluralistic intolerant.

1451
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, based on like our interpretation of civil rights law

1452
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 4: and where that conversation is going. So it's almost like

1453
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 4: you can't have this concept of pluralism that in the

1454
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 4: aughts made a little bit more sense. The formula made

1455
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 4: a little bit more sense when you start to have

1456
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:50,799
Speaker 4: what I would argue is sort of an intolerant approach

1457
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 4: to religion, or an intolerant approach she's more tribal.

1458
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:55,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you try to have a coalition of tribes,

1459
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:57,759
Speaker 6: which is those are not very stable.

1460
01:14:57,840 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 5: This is like the biggest, deepest coalition.

1461
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 6: Of interest groups is one thing, coalition of tribes. It's

1462
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 6: only going to last so long.

1463
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 5: Well, Ryan, what is on what's your point.

1464
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,519
Speaker 3: To michaelas is on here? Read my point.

1465
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 6: There's long been a saying in American politics that our

1466
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:18,920
Speaker 6: elections begin in Iowa and end in Florida, and the

1467
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 6: result was that our political system disproportionately handed out goodies

1468
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,040
Speaker 6: to just those two states. It didn't make much sense,

1469
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,680
Speaker 6: but it did make us obese, with massive corn subsidies

1470
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 6: for Iowa and sugar subsidies for Florida, and of course,

1471
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 6: whatever the bloodthirsty diaspora in Miami wanted was theirs from

1472
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 6: both parties, with no questions asked about whether it was

1473
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 6: actually in our regional or national interest. How else can

1474
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 6: you get a counterproductive embargo of Cuba to last this long,

1475
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 6: but Iowa and Florida are now both solidly Republican states.

1476
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:53,560
Speaker 6: The silver lining for the rest of the country is

1477
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 6: that we can now start to make policy decisions based

1478
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:58,639
Speaker 6: on whether or not something is a good idea, rather

1479
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 6: than pandering to a few vote in South Florida. Now,

1480
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 6: if you remember, back to the last State of the Union,

1481
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:06,719
Speaker 6: Joe Biden was caught on a hot mic button holing

1482
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 6: Bob Menendez, who's the Cuban American chair of the Senate

1483
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 6: Foreign Relations Committee and the chambers most aggressive Cuba hawk

1484
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:13,799
Speaker 6: on the Democratic side.

1485
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 3: He said, he wanted to talk.

1486
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 11: To talk to you about Cuba.

1487
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 6: I'm now there's movement in Venezuela too. Late last month,

1488
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,640
Speaker 6: the newly restored Brazilian President Lula de Silva made a

1489
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 6: big shift in foreign policy toward the South American country.

1490
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,679
Speaker 6: Instead of recognizing this guy Wangguido, the man the US

1491
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 6: sort of pretends as president of Venezuela, he invited the

1492
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,439
Speaker 6: guy who actually governs the country, whether we like it

1493
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:43,880
Speaker 6: or not, Hugo Chavez successor Nicholas Mandoro. Yet, Venezuela hit

1494
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 6: with some of the toughest sanctions in the world remains

1495
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 6: an economic basket case. The result has been a staggering

1496
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 6: outflow of refugees, with nearly two hundred thousand winding up

1497
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 6: at our southern border last year. Former Obama National Security

1498
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 6: advisor Ben Rhodes, now with PODSEV of America, responded to

1499
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 6: Lou's recognition of Maduro.

1500
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:02,599
Speaker 3: Recently and when it.

1501
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 6: Comes to sanctions on Venezuela, the Biden administration has clearly

1502
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 6: lost the Podsave bros.

1503
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 3: Take a listen.

1504
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 10: Clearly, the US has to make a pretty big shift

1505
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 10: in its Venezuelan policy because the idea of like just

1506
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 10: not recognizing this guy's president doesn't work. And meanwhile, we've

1507
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 10: exacerbated humanitarian crisis there their sanctions that has contributed significantly

1508
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:25,679
Speaker 10: to people coming to our border.

1509
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:28,719
Speaker 3: A quarter of the population has left the country.

1510
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:32,840
Speaker 10: We need some agreement that lifts a whole bunch of sanctions,

1511
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 10: that sets an election that we promised to actually respect

1512
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 10: the result of, you know, even if we don't like

1513
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 10: the results, and hopefully we do like the results, you know,

1514
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 10: but that allows for kind of a reset of what's

1515
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:50,560
Speaker 10: happening between the US and Latin America. Generally, Venezuela specifically,

1516
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 10: I would hope again that Cuba is a part of this.

1517
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,719
Speaker 10: Lula also I think could be a source of useful tension.

1518
01:17:57,080 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 10: But keep in mind a lot of people want to say, oh,

1519
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:00,599
Speaker 10: this is just Lula.

1520
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 6: Ben also made the point that the US isn't just

1521
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 6: out of step with one leftist leader in Brazil, but

1522
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:07,679
Speaker 6: we're basically losing the entire region.

1523
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 10: A lot of people want to say, oh, this is

1524
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 10: just Lula.

1525
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 3: It's not.

1526
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 10: It's Lula in Brazil, it's Borech in Chile, it's Petro

1527
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 10: and Colombia, it's Amlo in Mexico, it's all the major

1528
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 10: Latin American countries. There is nobody with us in this

1529
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 10: kind of weird, Miami driven hardline policy.

1530
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 3: So this.

1531
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 10: Meeting somewhere in the middle between where we currently are

1532
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:33,479
Speaker 10: in Merlula is is I think the smart way to go.

1533
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 10: And honestly, this kind of pressure is not the worst

1534
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 10: thing to try to shake that loose.

1535
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 6: So in Congress, four Democrats are circulating a letter that

1536
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:44,040
Speaker 6: I obtained that sort of calls on the Biden administration

1537
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 6: to lift sanctions on Venezuela. The letter is written by

1538
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 6: Jim McGovern. Greg Meek's Joaquin Castro and Barbara Lee, and

1539
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 6: it reads because we share your view that human rights

1540
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 6: should be at the center of US foreign policy. We

1541
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:58,640
Speaker 6: have been deeply troubled by the extens of reporting on

1542
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 6: the indiscriminate and counterpardductive impacts on the Venezuelan people of

1543
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:05,560
Speaker 6: the secondary and sectoral sanctions imposed by the Trump administration.

1544
01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 3: These kinds of sanctions.

1545
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 6: Have often been found to be ineffective in achieving their

1546
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 6: objectives and are profoundly incoherent from a human rights perspective.

1547
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 6: In our view, to purposely continue contributing to economic hardship

1548
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:21,040
Speaker 6: experienced by an entire population is immoral and unworthy of

1549
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 6: the United States. That is why many of us have

1550
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 6: previously called on your administration to pursue a better strategy

1551
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:29,520
Speaker 6: to address the rollback of democracy and the severe violations

1552
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:33,320
Speaker 6: of fundamental rights committed by the Maduro government. Now all

1553
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:35,280
Speaker 6: that is good, and it makes a strong case to

1554
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 6: immediately and unilaterally lift the sanctions, which makes a line

1555
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 6: in the last paragraph of the letter strange when it

1556
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 6: adds quote overcoming Venezuela's multifaceted political and human rights crisis

1557
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 6: and facilitating the country's desperately needed economic recovery must go

1558
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:54,600
Speaker 6: hand in hand unquote. Now, typically what a sentence like

1559
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:57,559
Speaker 6: that means is that sanctions will only be lifted if

1560
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:02,320
Speaker 6: Venezuela makes political concessions. Yet the lawmakers just acknowledge in

1561
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:05,839
Speaker 6: the same letter that sanctions are inhumane and don't actually

1562
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:09,120
Speaker 6: work to pressure political change anyway. It's a measure of

1563
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:11,840
Speaker 6: how addicted to sanctions the US is that language like

1564
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:14,599
Speaker 6: this shows up even in a letter designed to move

1565
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 6: in the right direction, and one signed by people like

1566
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 6: Barbara Lee and Jim McGovern who've spoken eloquently about the

1567
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 6: cruelty of sanctions. Now, the letter appears to be something

1568
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 6: of a response to pressure that McGovern has been getting

1569
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 6: from anti war activists back home, and.

1570
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:35,360
Speaker 1: He has not taken action. He has not signed this

1571
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:38,679
Speaker 1: letter calling up for an end to the sanctions, after

1572
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 1: telling us for years he's committed to stopping endless and

1573
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: needless deaths in Venezuela. Again, this is confusing and it's

1574
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 1: also inexcusable.

1575
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 6: So emily, these activists have been calling on him to

1576
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 6: sign on to a what point are you looking at all?

1577
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:00,640
Speaker 4: Right, Well, we're going to talk about the tragedy unfolding

1578
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 4: at sea because there's I think maybe an interesting lesson

1579
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 4: in all of it. And to be clear, this is

1580
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:10,679
Speaker 4: a story that's changing minute by minute, and as we're

1581
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 4: recording this, the latest is that some of the folks

1582
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:16,720
Speaker 4: on the rescue mission have heard sounds that are like

1583
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 4: a banging noise coming from the area that they're searching.

1584
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 4: The actually efforts to sort of pinpoint target the location

1585
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 4: of that sound have been unsuccessful.

1586
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 5: And this is the.

1587
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 4: Story of five people being lost at sea in the

1588
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:35,519
Speaker 4: titan submersible that was on a tourist expedition to view

1589
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:39,639
Speaker 4: the Titanic costs about two hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

1590
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:43,719
Speaker 4: and these folks right now are entirely lost at see.

1591
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 5: They have about from what.

1592
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 4: We know, twenty four hours at most until about Thursday morning.

1593
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:52,960
Speaker 4: We're here on Wednesday until about Thursday morning, with the

1594
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:57,240
Speaker 4: amount of oxygen that people estimate is in that submersible

1595
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:01,759
Speaker 4: before they run out and are not able to survive,

1596
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:05,559
Speaker 4: So the window is narrowing. Experts say the longer it

1597
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,760
Speaker 4: takes to locate people, the less chance that they have

1598
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:13,559
Speaker 4: of survival, which is tragically logic, but it's not really

1599
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 4: a good time to play. You know, armchair scientists from

1600
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 4: inside a news studio or pile on the decision to

1601
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:21,719
Speaker 4: sort of.

1602
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 5: Go on this expedition, but you know, it's a good.

1603
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 4: Time to pray for their safe return and an unfortunate

1604
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 4: i would say, opportunity to reflect on humans evolving, ever

1605
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 4: evolving relationship with risk itself. So just again some quick

1606
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:42,080
Speaker 4: facts from what we know right now. Within about two hours,

1607
01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:46,440
Speaker 4: Ocean Gate Expeditions, that's the company that puts together these excursions,

1608
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 4: they lost contact with the Titan.

1609
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:52,719
Speaker 5: It's a twenty one foot submersible vessel.

1610
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 4: As far as we know, it's about nine hundred miles

1611
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 4: east of Cape CODs. They're searching an area that's roughly

1612
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 4: the size of Kinetic, about nine hundred miles off east

1613
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 4: off the coast of case Cape Cod and about thirteen

1614
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 4: thousand feet deep. You have four passengers that were on

1615
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 4: board and the pilot that are now lost. The New

1616
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:16,000
Speaker 4: York Post says that this rescue, if it is successful,

1617
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 4: would be the deepest recovery mission in history, the deepest

1618
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:22,519
Speaker 4: recovery mission in history. So they're about twelve thousand, five

1619
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 4: hundred feet below the surface, and that's obviously an incredible task.

1620
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,960
Speaker 4: Not only to take people down to that level for

1621
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:34,679
Speaker 4: the viewing of the Titanic, but to then have search

1622
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,479
Speaker 4: and rescue crews basically trying to find a needle in

1623
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 4: a haystack in this vast expanse of the ocean. It

1624
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 4: seems maybe like it should be very easy because we

1625
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:47,840
Speaker 4: know where the submersible went down, we know when it

1626
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 4: went down, and that seems like it should be easy

1627
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:54,720
Speaker 4: to kind of pinpoint the location. But of course it's not,

1628
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,920
Speaker 4: and people have at this point been running or have

1629
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 4: been trying to find it for days. Safety concerns had

1630
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 4: been raised in the past. This is CNN, they write.

1631
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:07,519
Speaker 4: In twenty eighteen, de Manned Underwater Vehicles Committee of the

1632
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 4: Marine Technology Society penned a letter expressing concern over what

1633
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 4: they referred to as ocean Gate.

1634
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:13,360
Speaker 5: Again that's the company.

1635
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:17,519
Speaker 4: Their quote experimental approach with the titan the vessel that's

1636
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 4: now lost, and its planned expedition to the side of

1637
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 4: the Titanic wreckage quote. Our apprehension is that the current

1638
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:27,000
Speaker 4: experimental approach adopted by ocean Gate could result in negative

1639
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 4: outcomes from minor to catastrophic that would have serious consequences.

1640
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 5: For everyone in the industry.

1641
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,080
Speaker 4: That's a quote from the letter, and of course, tragically

1642
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 4: that seems to have been pressient. We're going to find

1643
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:39,920
Speaker 4: out more and more in the days ahead, and this

1644
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 4: story is evolving again very much. But if we put

1645
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:46,320
Speaker 4: up an archived version of the website again, I think

1646
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:49,599
Speaker 4: this is at the very at least as of now,

1647
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 4: an opportunity to reflect on our as human beings, our

1648
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:54,599
Speaker 4: relationship with risk.

1649
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:57,400
Speaker 5: That's from the archive version of the website.

1650
01:24:57,439 --> 01:24:59,880
Speaker 4: You can go now and actually look at how they

1651
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 4: advertised this Titanic expedition. There they say right there, explore

1652
01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 4: the Titanic, and it costs. In their FAQ they say

1653
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 4: it costs two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

1654
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:12,479
Speaker 5: We can also roll some.

1655
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:16,599
Speaker 4: Footage from an ad that was on their website as well.

1656
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:19,559
Speaker 4: You hear them say quotes like this is not a

1657
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:21,200
Speaker 4: thrill ride for tourists.

1658
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 5: Quote, it's not a ride at.

1659
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:27,679
Speaker 4: Disney and quote it's very engineered and very safe. Again,

1660
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:30,720
Speaker 4: it's eerie to reflect on all of this now, and

1661
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:33,679
Speaker 4: no matter you can be the safest thing in the world,

1662
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 4: there's always some risk involved in even driving a car

1663
01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 4: or taking a bike.

1664
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 5: There's always risk.

1665
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:41,520
Speaker 4: That's going to be involved, and so you know when

1666
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:45,680
Speaker 4: you're taking when you're viewing something like the Titanic some

1667
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:49,839
Speaker 4: thirteen thousand feet under the sea, of course, you're always

1668
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 4: going to have to accept that there's a level of danger,

1669
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:55,680
Speaker 4: and we do that every single day with everything that

1670
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 4: we do. You can never fully eliminate risk. But this

1671
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 4: is a lot of to take, and it's a lot

1672
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 4: of money.

1673
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 5: To spend on a risk. So it's more.

1674
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:07,479
Speaker 4: Than what an average American makes in a year, by far,

1675
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 4: much much more than what an average American makes in

1676
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:12,679
Speaker 4: a year, and just for a brief window of time.

1677
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:15,000
Speaker 4: So out of curiosity, after I saw that two hundred

1678
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:17,559
Speaker 4: and fifty thousand dollars price tag, I looked up what

1679
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:21,120
Speaker 4: the most expensive ticket was on the Titanic itself, and this.

1680
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:21,719
Speaker 5: Is really interesting.

1681
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 4: It's kind of hard to nail down an inflation adjusted

1682
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 4: price for that most expensive ticket, but none of the

1683
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 4: estimates that I saw put it very far north of

1684
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:35,080
Speaker 4: one hundred thousand dollars. So in twenty twenty three, people

1685
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:38,639
Speaker 4: are paying more than double the price of the people

1686
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:44,040
Speaker 4: who perish in the Titanic to tour their graveyard. It's

1687
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 4: a really strange arc of history right there, They're paying

1688
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 4: more than twice the price to see something that is broken,

1689
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 4: to see something that has failed.

1690
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:56,839
Speaker 5: It's like an inverse, a weird inverse.

1691
01:26:56,960 --> 01:26:59,760
Speaker 4: And it's especially interesting when you consider what one economist

1692
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 4: related back in twenty twenty one. Yahoo Finance reported at

1693
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:06,200
Speaker 4: the time on those numbers. I'm reading from this report

1694
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 4: in nineteen thirteen, so that's at the end of the

1695
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 4: Gilded Age, and the year after the Titanic sank. In

1696
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 4: nineteen twelve, the Rockefeller, Frick, Carnegie, and Baker families names

1697
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 4: all tied to monopolistic power, held point eight five percent

1698
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:20,400
Speaker 4: of the country's total wealth.

1699
01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:21,799
Speaker 5: The richest point zero.

1700
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:25,080
Speaker 4: One percent around eighteen thousand US families have also surpassed

1701
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 4: now the wealth levels reached in the Gilded Age. These

1702
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:30,440
Speaker 4: families hold ten percent of the country's wealth today. By comparison,

1703
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 4: in nineteen thirteen, the top point zero one percent held

1704
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 4: nine percent of US wealth and a mere two percent

1705
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,840
Speaker 4: in the late nineteen seventies, two percent in the late

1706
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:41,240
Speaker 4: nineteen seventies. So that's a swing from the Gilded Age

1707
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:43,920
Speaker 4: to the late seventies, and then a swing from then

1708
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 4: until now. Now. Ryan and I would probably disagree on

1709
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:50,200
Speaker 4: the morality of these different levels, these varying levels of

1710
01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:55,600
Speaker 4: income inequality. But compared with nineteen twelve, financialization completely dominates

1711
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:57,600
Speaker 4: our economy at this point, and so so much of

1712
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:00,639
Speaker 4: that wealth isn't even tied up in industries that actually

1713
01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:04,719
Speaker 4: build and create, but industries that sort of shuffle data

1714
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:08,680
Speaker 4: and shuffle money around. Now, morbid curiosity is a very

1715
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 4: real thing. It's inevitable and sort of understandably so whenever

1716
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:14,920
Speaker 4: it's monetized, it can be really gross, but it's not

1717
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 4: sort of categorically bad or new. What's different now is

1718
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 4: our daily levels of comfort here in the West. That's

1719
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:25,000
Speaker 4: different in the history of human existence. I don't mean

1720
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 4: that psychologically either. I think it's pretty clear, as Arthur

1721
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 4: Brooks has calculated that as we have gotten more materially

1722
01:28:31,240 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 4: comfortable over the last half century or so, we've actually

1723
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 4: gotten increasingly less happy. But we need certain things that

1724
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 4: we're now rich enough to avoid in many many cases,

1725
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:46,000
Speaker 4: so physical labor, natural sunlight, fresh food that we grow ourselves.

1726
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 4: We labor to grow ourselves, and losing these things is

1727
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:52,240
Speaker 4: driving us crazy in some respects, and we're so desperate

1728
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:54,799
Speaker 4: for relief. We're so desperate for meaning and for purpose,

1729
01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 4: that we're looking to really unhealthy solutions. Speaking about risk,

1730
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:01,360
Speaker 4: my colleague Malli I'm away almost ten years ago now,

1731
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 4: back in twenty fourteen, wrote a column with this very

1732
01:29:04,280 --> 01:29:07,320
Speaker 4: arresting headline quote, we need to get more comfortable with

1733
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 4: people dying in space.

1734
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:09,879
Speaker 5: I'm going to read this quote.

1735
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:11,760
Speaker 4: Part of the reason why the American public was so

1736
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:13,680
Speaker 4: upset by the loss of the Columbia crew back in

1737
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:15,600
Speaker 4: two thousand and three is because they were perceived to

1738
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:17,800
Speaker 4: have died for something trivial. The trip was mostly known

1739
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 4: for performing children's science fair experiments. She wrote a private

1740
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 4: or public exploration and settlement program based on larger ideals

1741
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 4: national security, advancing the human condition, fleeing from religious persecution,

1742
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:31,040
Speaker 4: or even just to test the limits of human accomplishments

1743
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,880
Speaker 4: would change the risk calculus. Now, she was clear that

1744
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 4: that wasn't to downpla any the tragedy is involved, and

1745
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 4: that it would be absolutely wonderful if we made every

1746
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:41,559
Speaker 4: new discovery, not just in space, but here on Earth

1747
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:46,080
Speaker 4: without losing anybody. It's obviously unrealistic. We need bravery, we

1748
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:49,120
Speaker 4: need a thirst for adventure. We need a healthy relationship

1749
01:29:49,160 --> 01:29:52,599
Speaker 4: with risk to advance forward we always have. But our

1750
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:56,320
Speaker 4: comfortable current risk averse society could very quickly become a

1751
01:29:56,439 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 4: risk hungry society, and that can go in very different directs.

1752
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 4: So the ultra wealthy elites who shelled out two hundred

1753
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 4: and fifty thousand dollars to take part in an experimental

1754
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:12,840
Speaker 4: excursion to the mass grave of prior adventurers, that could

1755
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:15,680
Speaker 4: be a sign that we're not prepared to channel the

1756
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:19,400
Speaker 4: restlessness of modern life here in the West in a

1757
01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:21,160
Speaker 4: way that is healthy at all.

1758
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 6: We are now four days after a deadline has passed

1759
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 6: in which Congress had statutorily required the Biden administration to

1760
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 6: declassify all information that it has related to COVID origins,

1761
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:41,519
Speaker 6: and specifically the Wuhan Institute of Virology. We're joined today

1762
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:45,600
Speaker 6: by Justin Goodman of the White Coast Whitecoat Waste Project

1763
01:30:46,160 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 6: to talk about the reporting that his organization has been

1764
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:52,559
Speaker 6: able to do over the last couple of weeks related

1765
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:57,439
Speaker 6: to COVID origins, and also this surprising delay on the

1766
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:00,960
Speaker 6: part of the Biden administration and what that mean given

1767
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:03,280
Speaker 6: the fact that it is that he is in as

1768
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:05,520
Speaker 6: we sit here, in violation of a statute.

1769
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 3: So justin thank you for joining us.

1770
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:08,840
Speaker 11: Pleasure to be here.

1771
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 6: As viewers of this show know, Matt Taibi and Mike

1772
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:16,519
Speaker 6: Schallenberger maybe a week and a half ago. At this point,

1773
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:22,800
Speaker 6: we're able to identify the names of three researchers at

1774
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:29,080
Speaker 6: the Wuhan Lab who US Intelligence believe were hospitalized with

1775
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 6: COVID like symptoms in November twenty nineteen, which not only

1776
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:38,040
Speaker 6: kind of upends the timeline of the Hunan seafood market

1777
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:41,840
Speaker 6: argument that it's spilled over from some type of a

1778
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:46,880
Speaker 6: pandulin or pangolin or bat or something else, that whatever

1779
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:49,679
Speaker 6: the claim was at the time, that would require there

1780
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:52,720
Speaker 6: to be a time machine involved, and so pushing it

1781
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 6: back to November, if that's confirmed, eliminates that possibility, and

1782
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 6: if if these workers themselves were the one second, that

1783
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 6: also increases the circumstantial evidence that it had something to

1784
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:10,439
Speaker 6: do this lab and the specific identity of one of

1785
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 6: the researchers, Ben who has been the focus of subsequent

1786
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:17,519
Speaker 6: reporting both by me over at the Intercept and also

1787
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:19,639
Speaker 6: at the Wall Street Journal since then, because Ben who

1788
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:27,200
Speaker 6: was a researcher on projects that involved manipulating coronaviruses so

1789
01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:30,240
Speaker 6: that they would be more infectious toward humans, And so

1790
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:32,719
Speaker 6: can you talk a little bit about what you found

1791
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 6: in the paperwork that you had gotten from the federal

1792
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 6: government through foul work, and how that became much more

1793
01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 6: important given the revelations of the names of these researchers.

1794
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 12: Absolutely, you know, the wet market proponents who have been

1795
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 12: pushing that fake news for three years have been saying

1796
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:55,080
Speaker 12: to follow the science. But what we've been doing since

1797
01:32:55,240 --> 01:32:58,400
Speaker 12: late twenty nineteen is following the money. We followed the

1798
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:01,400
Speaker 12: money from the NIH to the lab. We followed the

1799
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:03,480
Speaker 12: money from the NIH to gain a function.

1800
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:05,160
Speaker 11: Of the Wuhan lab, and now we followed the money

1801
01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:07,479
Speaker 11: from NIH to possible patients zero.

1802
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:10,479
Speaker 12: Ben Who Who, if you look at the preceding years

1803
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 12: leading up to the pandemic, basically had laid out the

1804
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:19,839
Speaker 12: blueprint for starscov two. The documents we have directly tied

1805
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:23,400
Speaker 12: Ben Who to two different US grants that we know

1806
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:26,759
Speaker 12: we're funding gain of function experiments at the Wuhan Institute

1807
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:31,120
Speaker 12: of Brology, one from doctor Fauci's National Institutes of Allergy

1808
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 12: and Infectious Diseases and one from USAID's PREDICT program. Ben

1809
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 12: Who was a co listed as a co investigator on

1810
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:43,480
Speaker 12: those grants. Paperwork that Peter Dasher personally filled out describing

1811
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 12: his collaboration with the Wuhan Lab, identifying Ben Who as

1812
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:51,439
Speaker 12: a co investigator on those two US grants that totaled

1813
01:33:51,479 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 12: forty one million dollars in Pact payer funds. Now, a

1814
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:59,799
Speaker 12: Government Accountability Office report that came out last week detailed

1815
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 12: that about one point four million dollars of that forty

1816
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 12: one million dollars in tax tailer money went to the

1817
01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 12: Wuhan Institute. We're trying to figure out exactly how much

1818
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:12,200
Speaker 12: went to Ben Who specifically. But if Ben Who is

1819
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:15,800
Speaker 12: determined to be patient zero, then our documents are the

1820
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:16,519
Speaker 12: smoking gun.

1821
01:34:17,360 --> 01:34:19,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, absolutely, it sounds like that. And there are

1822
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:23,840
Speaker 4: critics who would say, for instance, this money, even if

1823
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,200
Speaker 4: this money was going to Ben Who, Ben Whose research

1824
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:29,519
Speaker 4: couldn't have possibly created a lab link that spreads COVID

1825
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:32,439
Speaker 4: and Justin you study this very closely, and you have

1826
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:33,360
Speaker 4: been now for years.

1827
01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 5: What do you say to that argument?

1828
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:38,200
Speaker 12: So, actually, the thing that first tipped us off to

1829
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 12: the Wuhan labs relationship with the National Institutes of Health

1830
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:44,880
Speaker 12: back in late twenty nineteen, and remember we met with

1831
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:48,320
Speaker 12: the Trump administration in January twenty twenty, before there was

1832
01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 12: even a pandemic, declared to point out that there was

1833
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:54,080
Speaker 12: this relationship between the NIH and the Wuhan Lab and

1834
01:34:54,080 --> 01:34:55,960
Speaker 12: that they should look into it. There were crickets at

1835
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:59,519
Speaker 12: that time from the administration just for the record. So

1836
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:02,439
Speaker 12: we were first tipped off by a twenty seventeen paper

1837
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 12: that Ben Who was the lead author on with Peter

1838
01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:10,000
Speaker 12: Dashik and others, detailing how they were captured. They were

1839
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:13,680
Speaker 12: collecting wild back coronaviruses around China in remote parts of

1840
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:15,000
Speaker 12: the country and then.

1841
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:17,479
Speaker 11: Bringing them back to the lab and engineering them. But

1842
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:19,200
Speaker 11: not only that, not only.

1843
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:22,440
Speaker 12: Is there this published paper trail of Ben Who's involvement

1844
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:27,760
Speaker 12: in back coronavirus experimentation and creating these superviruses, these chimeric superviruses.

1845
01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 12: He was one of the people involved in the infamous

1846
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:34,760
Speaker 12: diffuse proposal that was denied by the Defense Department in

1847
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:38,719
Speaker 12: twenty eighteen, which was a blueprint for exactly but creating

1848
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 12: the exact virus that caused the covid pandemic stars Kobe

1849
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:47,560
Speaker 12: too by inserting the spike protein onto the wild back coronavirus.

1850
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:54,240
Speaker 12: Ben who was involved in the creation and conception of

1851
01:35:54,280 --> 01:35:57,679
Speaker 12: that virus got denied by the Defense Department, gets sick

1852
01:35:57,720 --> 01:36:00,559
Speaker 12: a couple of years later, and then of virus is

1853
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:03,600
Speaker 12: unleashed in the city of Ulan at his doorstep. That

1854
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:07,160
Speaker 12: resembles exactly the virus he described in this proposal that

1855
01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:10,559
Speaker 12: you wanted to create with US tax dollars. So, I mean,

1856
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:12,360
Speaker 12: at this point, there is not a doubt in my

1857
01:36:12,479 --> 01:36:14,840
Speaker 12: mind that a lab late is the cause of this pandemic.

1858
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:17,439
Speaker 12: I mean, there's literally no evidence to support a web

1859
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:20,920
Speaker 12: market theory, unless, as Ryan suggests, there was a time machine,

1860
01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:24,759
Speaker 12: because all the wet market theories propose that the virus

1861
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:27,639
Speaker 12: broke out in December twenty nineteen. Here we have been

1862
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:31,200
Speaker 12: who and others sick in November twenty nineteen, possibly before that.

1863
01:36:32,200 --> 01:36:35,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it's worth lingering on the diffuse proposal

1864
01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:41,280
Speaker 6: for a moment, because as we await the declassified information

1865
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:42,760
Speaker 6: that we're hopefully going to get, and we're going to

1866
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:46,000
Speaker 6: continue to put pressure on the administration until they release

1867
01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 6: this information, you're going to start seeing kind of a

1868
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:54,640
Speaker 6: battle royale, I think between multiple different camps within the

1869
01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:58,000
Speaker 6: United States, but then also camps within China, each trying

1870
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 6: to blame each other for the research that ended.

1871
01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:02,800
Speaker 3: Up leading to this league.

1872
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:06,479
Speaker 6: Let's let's say everybody eventually stipulates that, Okay, it was

1873
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:09,160
Speaker 6: actually research that we were doing over in this lab.

1874
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:13,559
Speaker 6: Uh You're going to see Americans, I think, saying well,

1875
01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:17,800
Speaker 6: this was a Chinese kind of military project and that

1876
01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:20,439
Speaker 6: there was Chinese and and it is the case that

1877
01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 6: there were you know, there was Chinese military funding of

1878
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:26,439
Speaker 6: Uhan lab, and so there's some evidence, you know that

1879
01:37:26,720 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 6: there's some plausibility to that argument. At the same time,

1880
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 6: you have you have been who you have Peter Dashik

1881
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:38,519
Speaker 6: others applying to the Pentagon for for money. So I'm

1882
01:37:38,560 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 6: already I'm already kind of finding it rich that we're

1883
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:43,920
Speaker 6: going to see the arguments that, well, this is kind

1884
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:48,599
Speaker 6: of this was military funding. How dare you when they

1885
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:51,880
Speaker 6: were actually trying to get US military funding and did

1886
01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:55,160
Speaker 6: get US AID funding, which is kind of the kind

1887
01:37:55,160 --> 01:37:59,120
Speaker 6: of sketchy agency that is always involved when when you

1888
01:37:59,200 --> 01:38:01,880
Speaker 6: sort of want to layer between what's going on and

1889
01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:04,160
Speaker 6: what's actually going on, and so can you talk a

1890
01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:07,479
Speaker 6: little bit about this this DARPA U this attempt to

1891
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:08,479
Speaker 6: get DARPA funding.

1892
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:11,479
Speaker 12: Sure, I mean, I'll start by saying I mean, shipping

1893
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:14,800
Speaker 12: tax dollars to a military linked animal laboratory run by

1894
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:17,600
Speaker 12: a foreign adversary was a recipe for disaster from the

1895
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:19,560
Speaker 12: very thoughts.

1896
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:22,480
Speaker 11: Yeah, whether the money was coming from the DoD.

1897
01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:25,439
Speaker 12: The State Department, or the NIH or anybody else for

1898
01:38:25,479 --> 01:38:25,960
Speaker 12: that matter.

1899
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:28,479
Speaker 5: I think you guys just questioned the science.

1900
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:31,640
Speaker 3: The scientists, question the scientists.

1901
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:34,200
Speaker 11: Yes, yeah, that's right, that's right.

1902
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:37,080
Speaker 12: So I mean, going back to the diffuse proposal, I mean,

1903
01:38:37,120 --> 01:38:40,880
Speaker 12: this is to me, this is just these these experimenters

1904
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 12: kind of being honest about what their intentions were was

1905
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:47,760
Speaker 12: to create the supervirus. And I think you know, the

1906
01:38:47,760 --> 01:38:50,759
Speaker 12: the fact that they did apply to the United States

1907
01:38:50,840 --> 01:38:54,439
Speaker 12: Department of Defense to create, depending on what your point

1908
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:58,639
Speaker 12: of view, is a bio weapon gives some insight into

1909
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:01,479
Speaker 12: the nature of these programs. I mean, ultimately, we're looking

1910
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:04,360
Speaker 12: at a situation where, you know, the Chinese and the

1911
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:07,400
Speaker 12: American government might agree that, okay, let's do this together,

1912
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:09,840
Speaker 12: because if there's something goes wrong, there's mutually a short

1913
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:16,240
Speaker 12: destruction and also mutually uh mutual mutually distribute a blame.

1914
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:19,920
Speaker 12: You know what I mean exactly, because right now US

1915
01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:21,720
Speaker 12: and China are going to be equally to blame if

1916
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:24,360
Speaker 12: it's a lab lead, and you're not really going to

1917
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:26,519
Speaker 12: be able to hold anybody accountable. And I think that's

1918
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:29,559
Speaker 12: exactly why the Diviiden the administration is dragging its feet

1919
01:39:29,640 --> 01:39:31,519
Speaker 12: right now. I mean, all signs point to a lab

1920
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:34,800
Speaker 12: league and if it's true, it's their fault and they're not.

1921
01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:36,599
Speaker 11: And they don't, you know, so they don't.

1922
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 12: And the fact that Democrats are in the White House

1923
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:40,720
Speaker 12: and running the center right now, I mean, no one

1924
01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:41,920
Speaker 12: really has an appetite for.

1925
01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:44,760
Speaker 11: Beating up on the NIH or the State Department in

1926
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:45,519
Speaker 11: terms of you know.

1927
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:49,000
Speaker 12: So, I think that the timing of this is unfortunate,

1928
01:39:49,080 --> 01:39:51,000
Speaker 12: but I think the timing of this is also it

1929
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:53,880
Speaker 12: was designed to be this way, that this information came

1930
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:56,320
Speaker 12: out at a time where it really doesn't benefit anybody

1931
01:39:56,360 --> 01:39:56,960
Speaker 12: at this point.

1932
01:39:57,640 --> 01:39:58,839
Speaker 11: It's only going to cause.

1933
01:39:58,600 --> 01:40:01,599
Speaker 12: Harm to China US relate, and that's again I think

1934
01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:02,760
Speaker 12: part of the point of all this.

1935
01:40:03,280 --> 01:40:05,800
Speaker 4: And I think it looks like increasingly the Trump administration

1936
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,040
Speaker 4: was dragging their feet as well because they had information

1937
01:40:08,120 --> 01:40:10,720
Speaker 4: implicating our government and we didn't get any of this

1938
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:13,680
Speaker 4: information as much as Republicans are posturing now back then,

1939
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:16,960
Speaker 4: probably because their intelligence agencies were aware of some of this.

1940
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:22,040
Speaker 4: Justin over at Whitecoat Waste, you guys are tracking sort

1941
01:40:22,080 --> 01:40:27,120
Speaker 4: of money being sent with no accountability for crazy projects.

1942
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:27,719
Speaker 5: And labs around the world.

1943
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:29,559
Speaker 4: And on that note, I want to ask what we

1944
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,559
Speaker 4: know about gain of function right now? The state of

1945
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:36,040
Speaker 4: US funding for gain of function research, especially in places

1946
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:39,360
Speaker 4: like the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where we don't really

1947
01:40:39,360 --> 01:40:42,280
Speaker 4: have a lot of oversight, We're not seemingly even interested

1948
01:40:42,439 --> 01:40:46,599
Speaker 4: in providing oversight after all of this, Where does this

1949
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:49,320
Speaker 4: where is this money going right now? If anywhere?

1950
01:40:50,280 --> 01:40:50,439
Speaker 8: Right?

1951
01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:52,160
Speaker 12: Great question, Lee, And I just want to start by

1952
01:40:52,160 --> 01:40:55,639
Speaker 12: saying one more thing that I forgot. We have emails. Actually,

1953
01:40:56,120 --> 01:40:59,000
Speaker 12: the same trands of emails that gave us the ben

1954
01:40:59,120 --> 01:41:02,000
Speaker 12: who records him to these brands were also the original

1955
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:06,240
Speaker 12: emails showing that Fauci's division at the NIH were actively

1956
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:10,240
Speaker 12: conspiring with Peter Dashchik and the Wan Institute in writing

1957
01:41:10,240 --> 01:41:12,840
Speaker 12: in twenty sixteen to bypass the gain of Function band

1958
01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:17,840
Speaker 12: that was in place by the Obama Biden administration. So

1959
01:41:18,240 --> 01:41:20,599
Speaker 12: again there's a lot of evidence that we were very

1960
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 12: intentionally trying to make this project happen in China, bending

1961
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:26,720
Speaker 12: over backwards to send money there and get approvals to

1962
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:29,720
Speaker 12: do this dangerous animal experimentation at the Wan Institute. In

1963
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:32,320
Speaker 12: terms of where things stand now, there's lots of legislation

1964
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:35,200
Speaker 12: out there looking to crack down or outright band gain.

1965
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:37,000
Speaker 11: Of function research. Here's what we've done to date.

1966
01:41:37,040 --> 01:41:40,639
Speaker 12: We've spent the last three years trying to find exposed

1967
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:44,759
Speaker 12: defund these foreign labs China and otherwise. In the federal

1968
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:47,719
Speaker 12: spending bill last year, we were able to cut funding

1969
01:41:47,920 --> 01:41:50,759
Speaker 12: for gain of function research in what they call countries

1970
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:55,760
Speaker 12: of concern also known as foreign adversaries Russia, Russia, China.

1971
01:41:56,360 --> 01:41:58,599
Speaker 12: Really those were the only countries that were receiving money

1972
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:02,759
Speaker 12: at that time. So we've also now disqualified the Wuhan

1973
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:07,000
Speaker 12: Institute from getting any future funding from the NIH. We're

1974
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:10,160
Speaker 12: hoping to make that permanent, so Wuhan is disqualified, the

1975
01:42:10,160 --> 01:42:13,479
Speaker 12: Wuhan Lab itself is disqualified from future taxpayer funding. No

1976
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:16,719
Speaker 12: gain of function funding is going to go to foreign

1977
01:42:16,840 --> 01:42:20,800
Speaker 12: enemy laboratories. However, there are still twenty seven other laboratories,

1978
01:42:20,840 --> 01:42:25,439
Speaker 12: including other CCP run laboratories animal laboratories in China that

1979
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:28,240
Speaker 12: are eligible to receive money from the NIH and that

1980
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:31,960
Speaker 12: are receiving money from the NIH We also just finally

1981
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:35,320
Speaker 12: cut off money to Russian laboratories. Until recently, taxpayers were

1982
01:42:35,320 --> 01:42:38,760
Speaker 12: funding laboratories in Russia as well. So we've cut the

1983
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:41,559
Speaker 12: money for gain of function in foreign countries, but there's

1984
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:43,960
Speaker 12: no restrictions on gain of function here in the United

1985
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:47,520
Speaker 12: States beyond what existed already that allowed some of these projects.

1986
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:47,719
Speaker 11: To go forward.

1987
01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:53,799
Speaker 12: So we're working with Congress to permanently defund all animal

1988
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:57,680
Speaker 12: experimentation in countries are concern like Russia and China. Obviously,

1989
01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:00,439
Speaker 12: we know what happened in the Wuhan Institute should be

1990
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:02,920
Speaker 12: a signal that this is a bad idea. And we're

1991
01:43:02,920 --> 01:43:04,720
Speaker 12: also trying to crack down on gain to function in

1992
01:43:04,720 --> 01:43:08,160
Speaker 12: the United States because some people are arguing that we

1993
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:10,760
Speaker 12: instead of offshoring it, we should bring in here where

1994
01:43:10,760 --> 01:43:12,160
Speaker 12: we have better oversight.

1995
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:14,320
Speaker 11: But again that's just as bad.

1996
01:43:14,360 --> 01:43:17,040
Speaker 12: I mean, that's basically looking to create a WU arm

1997
01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:18,760
Speaker 12: the West out here in the United States, and it's

1998
01:43:18,800 --> 01:43:19,760
Speaker 12: going to happen, it's just a.

1999
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 11: Matter of time.

2000
01:43:20,520 --> 01:43:22,720
Speaker 12: So we're doing everything we can to make sure that

2001
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:25,720
Speaker 12: taxpayer funding is not going to these foreign countries that

2002
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:28,200
Speaker 12: don't have our best interest in mind and for dangerous

2003
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:30,719
Speaker 12: fermentation that can cause a pandemic on our shores.

2004
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:34,840
Speaker 6: And it's good that NIH funding to the Wuhan Lab

2005
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:37,960
Speaker 6: is being cut off, and it's good that there's kind

2006
01:43:37,960 --> 01:43:41,720
Speaker 6: of being pressure being applied, But I'm curious are those

2007
01:43:41,800 --> 01:43:43,080
Speaker 6: labs going to keep running?

2008
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:44,639
Speaker 3: Because let's say.

2009
01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:48,080
Speaker 6: That the NIH doesn't fund the Wuhan Lab anymore. But

2010
01:43:48,160 --> 01:43:50,360
Speaker 6: if the CCP is like, you know what, we actually

2011
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 6: kind of think that that research is still useful to

2012
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:58,839
Speaker 6: us for whatever reason, like as people who have respiratory systems,

2013
01:43:59,240 --> 01:44:02,479
Speaker 6: like we're we don't really care. I mean, we want

2014
01:44:02,479 --> 01:44:05,400
Speaker 6: to know the answer to who funded this, and we

2015
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:07,000
Speaker 6: want one reason. We want to notice so that we

2016
01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:09,600
Speaker 6: can kind of target it and there can be accountability,

2017
01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:12,519
Speaker 6: But we also don't want there to be pandemics, Like

2018
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:13,439
Speaker 6: we don't.

2019
01:44:13,680 --> 01:44:15,520
Speaker 3: It doesn't really matter.

2020
01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:18,759
Speaker 6: You know, who paid for that day's work of labor

2021
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:23,880
Speaker 6: for the lab worker who then you know, sneeze at

2022
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:27,519
Speaker 6: the wet market or whatever and ended up with you know,

2023
01:44:27,560 --> 01:44:30,040
Speaker 6: twenty plus million people dead and lives up ended and

2024
01:44:30,439 --> 01:44:32,120
Speaker 6: immense trauma and the world changed.

2025
01:44:32,160 --> 01:44:36,000
Speaker 3: Like so what what are are what's the.

2026
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:41,120
Speaker 6: Path toward just stopping that research globally, because you know,

2027
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 6: we have to be lucky every single time.

2028
01:44:42,960 --> 01:44:44,800
Speaker 3: The virus only has to be lucky once.

2029
01:44:45,920 --> 01:44:46,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's right.

2030
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:50,160
Speaker 12: I mean, I think there's been conversations about weapons conventions

2031
01:44:50,200 --> 01:44:53,120
Speaker 12: and things like that, carvering these type of uh you

2032
01:44:53,120 --> 01:44:54,080
Speaker 12: know this.

2033
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 11: I mean, I would argue that.

2034
01:44:55,840 --> 01:44:59,960
Speaker 12: This, you know, crosses the line into buyer weapons research. Again,

2035
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:03,040
Speaker 12: it's all in the ivy beholder and what their intentions are,

2036
01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:05,560
Speaker 12: and I think we need stricter rules. Certainly in the

2037
01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:08,000
Speaker 12: United States we shouldn't be funding this stuff, but certainly

2038
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 12: globally we should probably agree that this is bad for everybody.

2039
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:15,240
Speaker 11: But if you have ill intentions.

2040
01:45:14,760 --> 01:45:16,760
Speaker 12: And you want to create a bio weapon, there's going

2041
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:18,800
Speaker 12: to be plenty of opportunities to do it. It's very

2042
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:21,400
Speaker 12: inexpensive to do you can do it very secretively, and

2043
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:23,840
Speaker 12: to be totally honest, I wouldn't be shocked at the

2044
01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:26,400
Speaker 12: US's secretively trying to figure out ways to fund this

2045
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:31,520
Speaker 12: stuff overseas. There's already dangerous loopholes that don't track subgrants.

2046
01:45:31,680 --> 01:45:35,240
Speaker 12: So after Eco Health gives money to Wuhan, Wuhan can

2047
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:37,639
Speaker 12: rebrant that money somewhere else and we would have no idea.

2048
01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:41,200
Speaker 11: So I think there's also a lot of spending.

2049
01:45:40,880 --> 01:45:43,599
Speaker 12: Accountability and transparency that has to happen in the United

2050
01:45:43,600 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 12: States to make sure we can follow the money where

2051
01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:48,360
Speaker 12: it's going and ensure we're not funding these projects life

2052
01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:50,920
Speaker 12: Fauci did secretively and Wuhan in the first place that

2053
01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:53,400
Speaker 12: brought us this pandemic that we're still dealing with.

2054
01:45:54,120 --> 01:45:56,639
Speaker 4: Ryan reported a great story out over at the Intercept

2055
01:45:56,680 --> 01:46:00,639
Speaker 4: on all of this. Justin, we really appreciate you coming

2056
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:04,120
Speaker 4: on as well, Senior vice president over at Whitecoat Waste.

2057
01:46:04,160 --> 01:46:06,960
Speaker 4: Your insight is always so appreciated, and so is your

2058
01:46:07,200 --> 01:46:08,160
Speaker 4: FOYA acumen.

2059
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:09,360
Speaker 5: You guys get everything.

2060
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:14,120
Speaker 12: We've gotten a good attorney on retainer.

2061
01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:15,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2062
01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:17,960
Speaker 6: Without without an attorney nowadays you get zero from Foyle.

2063
01:46:18,080 --> 01:46:20,280
Speaker 6: Yeah that's nothing, absolutely nothing.

2064
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:23,400
Speaker 5: Unfortunately, Well, justin, thank you so much. We always appreciate it.

2065
01:46:24,600 --> 01:46:25,200
Speaker 11: Thank you both.

2066
01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:26,439
Speaker 5: That does it for us.

2067
01:46:26,479 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 4: On today's edition of Counterpoints, the second edition of the

2068
01:46:29,880 --> 01:46:33,520
Speaker 4: show in the new Studio, again, big thanks to McGriffin.

2069
01:46:33,560 --> 01:46:35,400
Speaker 4: I heard someone in the comments refer to mac and

2070
01:46:35,400 --> 01:46:38,760
Speaker 4: Griffin as McGriffin, and I think that's really beautiful and adorable.

2071
01:46:38,840 --> 01:46:40,200
Speaker 5: So they are McGriffin from now on.

2072
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:42,479
Speaker 4: And we are very grateful to them, and very grateful

2073
01:46:42,479 --> 01:46:45,160
Speaker 4: to all of you for your help and for watching

2074
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:46,560
Speaker 4: every week programming.

2075
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:48,240
Speaker 3: Note I'll be gone next week. That's why I was

2076
01:46:48,240 --> 01:46:48,799
Speaker 3: here yesterday.

2077
01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:50,440
Speaker 5: He's just never here anymore.

2078
01:46:50,680 --> 01:46:52,559
Speaker 4: You should see his notebook right now, by the way,

2079
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:55,160
Speaker 4: if you've ever wanted a glance and said Ryan Grimm's

2080
01:46:55,479 --> 01:46:57,960
Speaker 4: fame notebook, it just says.

2081
01:46:57,560 --> 01:47:01,799
Speaker 5: Obama coming to Obama.

2082
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:03,040
Speaker 3: What was I going to say about Obama?

2083
01:47:03,080 --> 01:47:03,400
Speaker 5: Nobody?

2084
01:47:03,400 --> 01:47:03,960
Speaker 3: I don't remember.

2085
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:04,799
Speaker 5: It's not important.

2086
01:47:05,439 --> 01:47:07,240
Speaker 3: But anyway, Crystal will be here, so you'll have a

2087
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:08,320
Speaker 3: ladies day on Wednesday.

2088
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:09,679
Speaker 5: That's right, sounds fun.

2089
01:47:10,160 --> 01:47:13,479
Speaker 4: We'll do the Today's Show fourth hour thing with two

2090
01:47:13,479 --> 01:47:17,360
Speaker 4: glass of white wine on excellent. All right, well, Ran,

2091
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:20,839
Speaker 4: we'll see the week after that, and we'll see everybody

2092
01:47:20,960 --> 01:47:21,360
Speaker 4: next week.

2093
01:47:21,400 --> 01:47:22,440
Speaker 5: Back here for counterpoints