WEBVTT - Reject More Government.  George Will talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>When you're ready to ride Metro, we want you to

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<v Speaker 1>know we're ready for you. Here are just a few

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<v Speaker 1>statist no mask, no Metro need one. We have a

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<v Speaker 1>few extras at Metro. We're doing our part to keep

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<v Speaker 1>the DC area moving. Find out more at Well not

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<v Speaker 1>a dot com slash doing our part. We quoted George

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<v Speaker 1>Well many times over the years, whether it's a book,

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<v Speaker 1>a column in the Washington Post, or something he said

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<v Speaker 1>on one of the many talk shows that I've I've

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<v Speaker 1>watched him on over the years. He's got a new

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<v Speaker 1>book out called The Conservative Sensibility. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>you like a good blurb on your book when you're

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<v Speaker 1>an author, but a pretty good blurb from Jonah Goldberg,

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<v Speaker 1>who we also really like, staggeringly good, easily one of

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<v Speaker 1>the best books on American conservatism ever written. And I

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<v Speaker 1>watched the conversation between George Will and Jonah Goldberg on

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<v Speaker 1>c SPAN the other day and it was fantastic. I

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<v Speaker 1>highly recommend it to anybody that has any interest in it,

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<v Speaker 1>whether you're hate conservatism, is a progressive or your conservative yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>What a great intellectual, easy to understand conversation. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's safe to say this conversation will pale badly

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<v Speaker 1>in comparison problem, So enjoy. It's always a pleasure to

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<v Speaker 1>speak with George Will. How are you, sir? I thrive,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm better than the country. Excellent. Well, given the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that the ideas of limited government and the sacred value

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<v Speaker 1>of the individual have died. Do you want to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about baseball? I know more about baseball. Actually, as we talk,

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<v Speaker 1>I've got the MLB channel on muted in my office

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<v Speaker 1>that I turn it on at seven in the morning

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<v Speaker 1>and I turn it off and I leave it six.

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<v Speaker 1>I could watch baseball highlights all day long. Exactly. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>So listen. Is the way you mentioned that progressives progressive

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<v Speaker 1>should be interested in my book because it explains something

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<v Speaker 1>that should worry them. Nineteen sixty four podcast, My first

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<v Speaker 1>vote for very Goldwater, to whom the book is dedicated.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen sixty four of the American people said they

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<v Speaker 1>trusted the government to do the right thing all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>or almost all the time. Today, that's down to a

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<v Speaker 1>sixty point collapse in the prestige of government. Now, since

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<v Speaker 1>everything progressors want to do depends on a strong state,

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<v Speaker 1>and a strong government depends upon public confidence in it,

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<v Speaker 1>they should be seriously worried about what's happened. That's not

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<v Speaker 1>a minor change, a sixty point collapse in the way

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<v Speaker 1>people look at government. Well, but at the same time, though,

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<v Speaker 1>we have this enormous contempt for government, yet you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the masses of voters want more and more of it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a bit of a disconnect to me. It's called

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<v Speaker 1>the fancy words for that is cognitive dissiplance. That's holding

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<v Speaker 1>in your mind with equal fervor and sincerity, flatly incompatible ideas.

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<v Speaker 1>The political scientists have long argued that the American people

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<v Speaker 1>are rhetorically con servative and operationally liberal, that they talked

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<v Speaker 1>like Jeffersonians that government is best to governs the least

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<v Speaker 1>and all the rest, but they want to be governed

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<v Speaker 1>by Hamiltonians, and they certainly got that. Now. Well, the

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<v Speaker 1>thing I've quoted on you on the most over the

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<v Speaker 1>many years, because you've been saying this for a long

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<v Speaker 1>time and it's just so true. What bothers you most

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<v Speaker 1>is not the gridlock and the polarization and how the

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<v Speaker 1>parties can't get along and get anything done. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>thing they do agree on, that we should have more

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<v Speaker 1>government than we pay for. Both parties seem to be

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<v Speaker 1>an agreement on that. I think the political class is

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<v Speaker 1>far more united by class interests than it is divided

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<v Speaker 1>by ideology. For all to talk about the discord in

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<v Speaker 1>our country, and the Lord knows it's room enough. What

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<v Speaker 1>terrifies me as the consensus, which is that we should

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<v Speaker 1>have a large, omnipresent, omniprovident, ever more generous welfare state

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<v Speaker 1>and not pay for it. The public loves this because

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<v Speaker 1>they get the dollars worth of government and their charged

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<v Speaker 1>to eight cents for it. And we shove a fifth

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<v Speaker 1>of the cost of government off on the unconsenting because

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<v Speaker 1>unborn future taxpayers will have to service this debt. And

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<v Speaker 1>the result is that today, under a Republican government, we're

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<v Speaker 1>running a trillion dollar annual budget deficit at full employment

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<v Speaker 1>and three growth. Now ask yourself this, what is going

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<v Speaker 1>to happen when the next procession begins with a trillion

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<v Speaker 1>dollar budget deficit. Now you may some people say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not gonna have any more recessions. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>if the current president had outlawed the business cycle, his

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<v Speaker 1>native modesty would not have prevented him from mentioning it. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>oh boy, So is this a failure of messaging by

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<v Speaker 1>those of us of a conservative point of view at

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<v Speaker 1>least in terms of the size and function of government? Um?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it a just a failure of humanity that's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>manifest itself over and over again as democracy is mature?

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<v Speaker 1>Is there any avoid the slide towards seeing governments as

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<v Speaker 1>a combination of Mommy and Santa Claus. I think a

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<v Speaker 1>reckoning is coming, and I blame the leadership class. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't expect the American people to closely monitor government. They

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<v Speaker 1>have children to raise, and gutters to claim in the

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<v Speaker 1>screen door to fix, and just getting on with life.

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<v Speaker 1>I blame a leadership class that knows that it benefits

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<v Speaker 1>politically from this constant running of enormous deficites that makes

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<v Speaker 1>big government cheaper than it actually is. And the reckoning,

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes, will not be paid by the political class.

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<v Speaker 1>It will be paid by the people who understandably we're

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<v Speaker 1>not paying chose attention, Well, you brought up something the

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<v Speaker 1>other day in your conversation with Joonah Goldberg that I

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<v Speaker 1>thought was really good about public choice theory and the

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<v Speaker 1>way it applies to government workers in government itself. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you explain that to us? Yes, a public choice theory,

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<v Speaker 1>for which James Buchanan of the University vir Ginuine a

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<v Speaker 1>Nobel Prize as an economist, says simply this. In the

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<v Speaker 1>private sector, we understand that people try to maximize something,

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<v Speaker 1>usually their income their wealth. In the public sector, people

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<v Speaker 1>don't stop behaving like normal interested, aggrandizing people. But in

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<v Speaker 1>the public sector, instead of maximizing their income, they try

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<v Speaker 1>to maximize their power. Which is why government should be

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<v Speaker 1>looked upon, not sentimentally as a disinterested group of of

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<v Speaker 1>social scientists. Rather, government should be looked upon as an

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<v Speaker 1>interested fact in itself. It has its own interests, and

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<v Speaker 1>it should be treated accordingly, as as with weariness, and

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<v Speaker 1>we should avoid the sentimentalizing about government. This is what

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<v Speaker 1>puzzles me about the likes of Elizabeth Warren, who whose

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<v Speaker 1>idea content I'd rather like. I mean, I don't like

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<v Speaker 1>her ideas, but I like the fact that she brings

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<v Speaker 1>ideas to politics. Here's the problem, he says with some

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<v Speaker 1>justification that the government has become the plaything of interests.

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<v Speaker 1>The government is so deeply involved in allocating wealth and

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity in the United States. Uh, there's another not a

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<v Speaker 1>mystery wife. Five of the ten wealthiest counties in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States by per capita incomer in the Washington area.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't have any natural resources, We don't make anything

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<v Speaker 1>except laws and trouble. But so much money slashes through

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<v Speaker 1>Washington and is directed by Washington that it pays for

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<v Speaker 1>people to capture the government. And they do capture it,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's captured by compact, intense, articulate, confident, well lawyered factions.

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<v Speaker 1>So Elizabeth Warren's right about that. But then she says, inexplicably,

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<v Speaker 1>what we need to do is make this difficult government bigger.

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<v Speaker 1>We need to get it more involved in allocating wealth

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<v Speaker 1>and opportunity in society. George will Let George will has

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<v Speaker 1>a brand new book out, The Conservative Sensibility, which is

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<v Speaker 1>getting grave reviews in many different quarters. Uh. We were

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the homeless crisis on the West Coast, or

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<v Speaker 1>the West Coast bomb explosion as we usually describe it,

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<v Speaker 1>and one of our theories is that it's it's the

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<v Speaker 1>natural result of the triumph of emotionalism over realism, the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that if you're just kind and compassionate and give

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<v Speaker 1>people everything they need, they will well, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>that they'll they'll move into apartments and go away, or

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<v Speaker 1>something as opposed to, you know, the more realistic, perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>not compassionate enough past, where a compages run you out

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<v Speaker 1>to the edge of town, say I don't know where

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna go, but you did, it isn't going to

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<v Speaker 1>be here, would you agree. There's been a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>that on the West Coast. Well, the West Coast is

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, it's taken progressive policies, meddling with the

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<v Speaker 1>housing market, trying to achieve various social goals, at least

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<v Speaker 1>the goals that these people have high density living all

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<v Speaker 1>the rest, get people out of cars, all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>As a result, you have a shortage of a four

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<v Speaker 1>sable housing. You do have a good climate, which attracts

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people. But also it simply is the

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<v Speaker 1>case that a welcoming, a well intended, compassionate policy is

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<v Speaker 1>going to attract some of these problems. There's a little

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<v Speaker 1>story in my book by a man named John Cochrane,

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<v Speaker 1>who's up at the Stanford Hoover Institution and he blogs

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<v Speaker 1>as the Grumpy Economist. He tells the story he said,

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<v Speaker 1>a government decided it wanted to get rid of snakes,

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<v Speaker 1>so it put a bounty on snakes. If you brought

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<v Speaker 1>in dead snakes, what could go wrong? Hint, He says,

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<v Speaker 1>snakes are easy to raise, so people went into the

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<v Speaker 1>snake raising business so they could kill the snakes and

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<v Speaker 1>get the bounty. Government when it starts with many of

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<v Speaker 1>these policies, well, we'll just regulate the housing market. All

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<v Speaker 1>of a sudden you learned what I called the fatal conceit,

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<v Speaker 1>the business that government doesn't know as much as the

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<v Speaker 1>market knows. You begin to realize that society is like

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<v Speaker 1>a Caulder mobile, or you jiggle something here, and a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of other things jiggle way over on the other side.

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<v Speaker 1>So government should reject the progressive analysis, which is as follows.

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<v Speaker 1>For us to say the more complex society becomes, the

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<v Speaker 1>more government or to try to regulate it. It's exactly

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<v Speaker 1>the reverse. The more complex society becomes, the more government

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<v Speaker 1>should step aside. Allow market forces to work, because all

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<v Speaker 1>markets are our information aggregating devices. And they know more

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<v Speaker 1>than governments. Now, talking with George will his book The

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<v Speaker 1>Conservative Sensibility, we're trying pretty hard to stay away from

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<v Speaker 1>the T word um uh and and really the politics

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<v Speaker 1>of the day, because once you started on that, people

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<v Speaker 1>immediately go to the side. So I'd like to make

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<v Speaker 1>this more more, a little broader in that power has

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<v Speaker 1>been going to the presidency for several administrations now for

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<v Speaker 1>quite a while. And and and then just the people's

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<v Speaker 1>view of government is the president. The president decides everything.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the only election I care about. The only person

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<v Speaker 1>I pay attention to in the news is are we

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<v Speaker 1>getting the government we deserve? And that effect that you

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<v Speaker 1>blame the media, I mean, what's going on there. I

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<v Speaker 1>blame the media in part and technology in part because

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<v Speaker 1>once radio came along and made mass communication by the

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<v Speaker 1>president possible, television wants to being sort of slave to

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<v Speaker 1>a superficial news gathered an instrument, which the camera is.

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<v Speaker 1>It wants to be able to appoint the camera at something,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's easier to do it at the president than

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<v Speaker 1>five five members of Congress. When Roosevelt gave his first

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<v Speaker 1>Franklin Roosevelt gave his first fireside chat on the radio.

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<v Speaker 1>As president, his first two words were my friends. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>we're used to this kind of talk, but back then, frankly,

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<v Speaker 1>it was revolutionary, and people didn't used to think that

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<v Speaker 1>a president ought to be our friend. The doesn't supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to take care that the laws are faithfally executed and

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<v Speaker 1>their laws made by other people. Presidents were secondary. The

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<v Speaker 1>presidency is Article two of the Constitution for a reason,

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<v Speaker 1>and Congress is Article one for a reason. But there

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<v Speaker 1>you said Congress. Congress has been transferring powers voluntarily and

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<v Speaker 1>recklessly to presidents for several administrations. It's actually about eighty years.

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<v Speaker 1>Goes back even further than that, Freddy Teddy Roosevelt said

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<v Speaker 1>a president should be free to do whatever he wants,

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<v Speaker 1>as long as it's not explicitly forgiven. Then along comes

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<v Speaker 1>from Woodrow Wilson, the first president to criticize the American founding,

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<v Speaker 1>which he did thoroughly. He said, the whole separation of

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<v Speaker 1>powers is a mistake, because now we need a government

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<v Speaker 1>that is nimble and can be wielded by a very

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<v Speaker 1>strong president. Well, progressive said good, we'd like progressive presidents

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<v Speaker 1>wielding our Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt Lyndon Johnson. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think they anticipated the current president occupying this, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>this unleashed office. Hey, by the way, you you've become

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<v Speaker 1>aware of Tim Sandifer, who is a friend of ours,

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<v Speaker 1>personal friend of ours. He used to call into our

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<v Speaker 1>show years ago as Tim the Lawyer and set us

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<v Speaker 1>straight on various things, and then he became a guest.

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<v Speaker 1>So he's terrific. He is fantastic national asset. I agree

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<v Speaker 1>he is, and hilariously funny too, which is underrated. For

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<v Speaker 1>George will is on the line. So what do you

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<v Speaker 1>say to those and this is dovetailing obviously off your

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<v Speaker 1>previous a couple of sentences, But what do you say

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<v Speaker 1>to those who advocate a living constitution that can move

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<v Speaker 1>with the times. I think a living constitution is an oxymoron.

0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.599
<v Speaker 1>I think it's a contradiction in terms. A living constitution

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<v Speaker 1>that takes on the shape of whatever uh, cultural forces

0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 1>and political winds are blowing doesn't constitute anything. A living

0:13:55.600 --> 0:14:00.079
<v Speaker 1>constitution is one that is plastic to the forces of

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<v Speaker 1>the moment. And that's the opposite of what a constitution is. Remember,

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<v Speaker 1>our constitution is a series of prohibitions. There shall be

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<v Speaker 1>even if Congress wants it, even if the public wants it.

0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.840
<v Speaker 1>There shall be no law abridging freedom is the press,

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<v Speaker 1>no unreasonable searches and seizures, no establishment of religion, no

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<v Speaker 1>taking a public property without proper compensation. The Constitution exists

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<v Speaker 1>to say majority rule is fine, but majority rule is

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<v Speaker 1>limited and constrained. George Well, the book is the conservative sensibility.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to dig into it myself, and George,

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<v Speaker 1>you are always welcome here. It's always enjoyable and stimulating

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Thanks for the time. I hope you guys

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 1>are spreading out across the country. We need you now

0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 1>we're doing Thank you very much. All right, thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>When you're ready to ride Metro, we want you to

0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.440
<v Speaker 1>know we're ready for you. Here are just a few

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:08.280
<v Speaker 1>of the people at Metro to tell you how we're

0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.080
<v Speaker 1>doing our part to keep riders safe. We clean, you know,

0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.680
<v Speaker 1>like Neville before Hot to a Great Queen. You'll found

0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 1>hands down at thiuns of statist no mask, no Metro

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 1>needed one. We have a few extras at Metro. We're

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.440
<v Speaker 1>doing our part to keep the DC area moving. Find

0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.800
<v Speaker 1>out more at well Mata dot com slash doing our

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 1>part