1 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. Now, I'm Doug gotlie Been. This is 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: the All Ball Podcast where uh we we have a 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: bunch of different paths that we go down during the 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: hoops season. Most times we talk hoops, but sometimes we 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: talk other sports. Matter of fact, I have a couple 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: of friends who want to join me. I like t 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Josh Manzada did if you missed that one, He's got 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: an amazing life story. It's not bald. Does not also 9 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: also always mean basketball, it just means kind of sport. 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: And though we usually focus on basketball and people's basketball 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: stories or basketball analysis, I like to like I like 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: to I like to get everybody's sports story if you will. Uh. 13 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: Today's guest is Matt Babcott. Now, Matt was a walk 14 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: on at Arizona and their lead eight team in was 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: that oh five right, and they lost that game to 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: Illinois after beating Oakleham State. Crazy. That's now All State Arena. 17 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: That's the old Rosemont Horizon, which I'm gonna share with 18 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: you a quick story on that in a second, and 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: then we'll have Matt come on. Um. One of the 20 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: things I like best about it is the ability to 21 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: tell stories. So here's a here's a good hoop story 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: for you. All Right, I'm working at ESPN and the 23 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: guy who hired me now works for NBC supports named 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: danced here. Dan is a fabulous guy and an unbelievable 25 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: TV production kind of mind. He was like famously, he 26 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: was Vitalis producer when vital was absolutely at his peak. 27 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: And you know, you don't know where vital is going, 28 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: and to be a producer when that's happening is is hard. 29 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: So he was the coordinating producer at ESPN. And some 30 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: of my broadcasting friends, which are listening to this, you're 31 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: you're you're not You're not in because you know how 32 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: Dan works. So the way in which Dan would operate 33 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: when I was there, which is like bro, bro, keep 34 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: me honest, keep me honest. Come in, asked for games, 35 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: don't be afraid. But I may say no, I don't 36 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: have one for you, but but just knock on my door. 37 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: Don't don't be afraid to stop byebro. So that's what 38 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: I would do. That's kind of how I cut my 39 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: teeth in college basketball is you know Barry Sacks as 40 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: a guy, he ran ESPN News. You know, we couldn't 41 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: put you on here. We could put you there. And 42 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: Dan Steer was the CP for college basketball. So Dan 43 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: calls me, uh, one day when I'm driving home, brought 44 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: you need a favor, need a favor? Um Cincinnati de 45 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: Paul And it was like a early February game, and 46 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: I was like, oh man, Paul's terrible, terrible, no problem. 47 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: But I'm I'm everyone's contract is different, and so I 48 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: think that mine at the time was like an all 49 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: and like you could basically throw having every many games. 50 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: There's no overridge, there's no extra fees whatever. So somebody 51 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: says to do the game, you do the game, but 52 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, inside I was like, oh man, that's a 53 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: shitty game. So um. And at the time, I was 54 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: doing in the afternoon or nighttime radio, so that means 55 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: I would have had to take a day off of radio. 56 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: So it doesn't It didn't help me pay wise, and 57 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: in fact, it actually hurts me because I my radio 58 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: contract at the time was based upon the number of 59 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: days I fulfilled, not anything else. And so every day 60 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: I did basketball, that was a day I couldn't do radio, 61 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: which meant it was a day like it it had 62 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: to be something good, but whatever, Like I love calling 63 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: basketball games, so he's like, uh, but I'll make a 64 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: deal with you. You can fly in to do the 65 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: game day of, which generally not allowed at most networks 66 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: to fly in day of, especially a place like Chicago 67 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: or flying out of Hartford where weather can be a factor. 68 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: So uh, Dave Revson and I were I don't know, 69 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: excuse me, boog Shambie and I were calling the game 70 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: and boog Is is out of New York and I'm 71 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: out of the Hartford area, and so we both fly 72 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: in that morning and they're shoot around at like I 73 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: don't know, one's at eleven and once at twelve. So 74 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: I take uh, I mean, it couldn't be any better 75 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: because you get an hour back, Like I get all 76 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: my kids situated, they go to my girls go to 77 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: preschool or whatever. And I had to the airport. You know, 78 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: it's like a nine o'clock flight or nine fifteen flight, 79 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: and you land at like nine fifteen. It's it's amazing. 80 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: So we fly in and you land it I don't 81 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: know what it is, you know, nine fifteen. And if 82 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: you've ever been to the All State Arena, which is 83 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: the old Rosemont Horizon, it's literally right off the runway 84 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: right so I I didn't rent a car because well, 85 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: I just rent a car. And here's the here's the 86 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: thing I did. It's a six o'clock local start. The 87 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: last flight to Hartford was swear to god, eight twenty 88 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: nine pm. Okay, six o'clock. If you know college basketball, 89 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: the window is two hours. Now only Wisconsin Michigan State 90 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: Big Ten games go less than two hours. But as 91 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: I was calculating my brain, I was sitting there going like, 92 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: the Paul's terrible. They're so bad that they're not even 93 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: gonna be fouling late in the game, and I'll end 94 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: up walking out the arena at seven. It is five 95 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: minutes door to door. I can check in for the flight. 96 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: I'm not checking the bags. I'm not even I got 97 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: a backpack with a laptop and that's it, you know, 98 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: like it's like the old Uh, it's sealed, you know. 99 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, we went went to Phoenix to play games 100 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: six of the NBA Finals, Like you only packed one suit. 101 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: I literally wore my suit. So I dropped my kids off, 102 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: I'm taking the flight. I go over there and I'm 103 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: and uh, I'm hanging with Boog and we're watching De 104 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: Paul workout, and um, one of the managers comes over 105 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: and says, uh, uh, do you guys need a well 106 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: actually was the producer. They had a runner, and ESPN 107 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: games don't usually have runners, CBS games do have runners, 108 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: ESPN pretty stripped down crew, but somehow we had a 109 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: runner and we're like, hey, my man, can we get 110 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: a ride to the airport? And a guy waiting? There's 111 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: no we have no postgame interview, like this is just 112 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: a game on and off. So we literally both landed 113 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: go over to the airport and now we did get 114 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: I think one hotel room at something like Dive Hotel 115 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: right next to the arena. So while we're watching shoot around, 116 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: they're like the runner who drove us around all day 117 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: is like, actually, there's a team manager. They have a 118 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: team van and he's going to take you to the airport. 119 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: Cool we meet him, it's great, no problem, and I'm 120 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: gonna meet you at that door. And I was like, listen, um, 121 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: how many people they expecting that? He's like, I don't know, man, 122 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: like maybe four or five thousand. But you know, if 123 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: we're down big late, the law of cleared out traffic 124 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: won't be a problems, like, well, can we be on 125 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: the side of the arena. What's the arena, which is 126 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: the airport side, so we could have the easiest exit, 127 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: no problem. These are the things, by the way, that 128 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: that broadcasters actually really think about. So this guy is 129 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: driving us around and he's kind of driving us crazy. 130 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: He was our runner, drives us to lunch, and he 131 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: like he he doesn't he smokes, but not in the 132 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: car when we're driving, but he had clearly smoked a ton. 133 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: I think he lived in Wisconsin. Is like a college student. 134 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: We're like, this is disgusting. I just remember Boo going, 135 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: thank god, he's not taking us to the airport. So 136 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: we get to do the game and Paul's down like 137 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, eighteen and a half and the thing 138 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: is rolling and no fouls, and it's you know, you 139 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: get to Usually it's three minutes for every minute on 140 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: on the game clock, right, that's usually how you can 141 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: think of it. But the first half only usually takes 142 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, forty to forty five minutes, and I 143 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: mean it felt like the first half might have taken 144 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: thirty minutes. So I'm sitting there elbowing Boog and boogs 145 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: flight is last light to New York is like nine thirties, 146 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: so he's fine, no matter what. So the second half starts, 147 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the Paul starts hitting three 148 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: after three, after three after three, right, and Cincinnati's mc 149 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: cronin's calling time outs, and I'm like, I'm gonna sitting 150 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: there dying, and he's elbow with me because he knows 151 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: if I missed that flight. I either got to fly 152 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: with him in New York and then find a way 153 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: to cab up to can't netiquette, or I gotta stay 154 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: the night. And now it's like, oh god, stay in 155 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: a dive hotel, change my flight. You know, just that 156 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: you want to sleep in your own bed. So the 157 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:16,119 Speaker 1: game ends, and the ball is in the air, and 158 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: the game balls in the air, and DePaul is down three. 159 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: They miss a three at the buzz that could have 160 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: tied it, sent it to overtime. Of course I would 161 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: have missed the flight, misses it, and you get from 162 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,559 Speaker 1: the producer, no post game hit. You guys are clear. 163 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: It's like seven fifty eight. So we start booking it 164 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: to the door we're supposed to with a van is 165 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: supposed to be and there's no van there, and there's 166 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: no manager there. Turns out he moved into the other 167 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: side of the arena, which and the traffic there wasn't 168 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: a little bit of traffic because people did stay because 169 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: it was in fact an inside the basketball game. Get 170 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: in the car, and I'm like, in my mind, dog 171 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,599 Speaker 1: custing this manager who just didn't I just ask you 172 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: to park on one spot to get you there. A 173 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: matter of fact, I'm looking at the game right now, 174 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: and uh, my recollection was pretty good as February eight, 175 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, Cincinnati de Paul, right, classic classics, Sincena 176 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 1: de Paul, and it was and DePaul was shitty. They 177 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: were five and seventeen before the game. Excuse me, six 178 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: and six, six and sixteen before the game, and Cincinnati 179 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: was eighteen and fifteen before the game. Sincinnati up big 180 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: in the first half behind Ibrahima. Thomas started his career 181 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: at Oklahoma State, right Sean Kilpatrick who became a pro 182 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: What a stud player he was, Uh Yancey Gates and 183 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: Larry Davis and Rashad Bishop. That was a that was 184 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: a good since a good like good rugged Cincinnati team 185 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: and uh Cleveland Melvin, who I think it's an l 186 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: a kid and he ended up having a big night. 187 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: He was their league's corre for De Paul and they 188 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: made it close. Anyway, Um, so we get done and 189 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: we race, you know, finally get to find the manager. 190 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: It's like eight oh five and book our way over 191 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: to book our way over to O'Hare, roll into a 192 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: hair like eight oh nine, get out, start running. Nobody 193 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: at the security gate made it to the uh you know, 194 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: running through like o J through the airport right, get 195 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: all the way to the gate and um and it's like, 196 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: you know, eight fourteen or something or maybe eight nineteen, 197 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: and I see the door closed. I remember it's like 198 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: a flight and if you know, Americans start doing this 199 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: thing probably about two thousand and ten. We're like, you know, 200 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: if you're not there for fifteen minutes before we closed 201 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: the door, and you're just so I saw the door closed, like, 202 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: oh man, I missed it, but there's all these people 203 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: like sitting in there. So anyway, the flight was like 204 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: five minutes before boarding. I end up getting to the flight, 205 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: So I do have some That's my greatest Rosemont Horizon 206 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: All State Arena memory, far better than than Matt who's 207 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: going to join us, UM who of course, was sitting 208 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: on the bench for Arizona when they had a huge 209 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: lead against Illinois in the Elite eight before the line. 210 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: I and Bruce Weber end up making that furious comeback, 211 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: winning the game in the Elite eight, crazy home crowd. 212 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: Then they go and play in St. Louis, get all 213 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: the way the national championship game. They played small ball 214 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: before small ball was cool but too much. North Carolina 215 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: end up beating him for a national championship. That's there. 216 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: There's the there's the Old State Arena, Rosemont Horizon, all 217 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: time worst arena. Only good part of that location is 218 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 1: proximity to airport. That's really only it. And they have 219 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: like blue windows and like a blue roof on it. 220 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: It's a I mean, it's fine as an arena, but 221 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what purpose it serves now, I really 222 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: really don't. I have no who how did that thing 223 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: get cleared? How did that thing get to where you're like, yeah, yeah, 224 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: let's let's build arena there right in the middle of 225 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: some office building, some apartment buildings, and and you have 226 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: some high rises in some hotels like that doesn't make 227 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: any sense at all. That's so that's a weird one 228 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: to me. All right, let's get to it. Matt bad 229 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: guys from a basketball family. He's got an interesting story, 230 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: right from being a junior college player to a college 231 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: walk on, to an assistant coach, to UH to an agent, 232 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: and now as a UM as a basketball analyst for 233 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: higher Here's my conversation with him about a myriad of topics, 234 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: including what do we take of LaMelo ball earlier in 235 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: the season. All right, so let's let's let's let's start 236 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: at the beginning for you. Okay, your earliest memories of 237 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: basketball or what? Oh? Boy, Um, I'd probably say I 238 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: was about four or five years old. My dad's the 239 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: head coach at Junior college and Phoenix Phoenix College and 240 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: run around the JO gym or around his practices. Uh. So, 241 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: first and foremost it was a college coach's son. Uh, 242 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: did you have like I wear? For? I always war 243 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: forty four. Um, there's other reasons like pistol Pete work 244 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: forty four, bit Hey Gathers war forty four, Jerry West 245 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: war forty four, my my mom's sides all Syracuse people 246 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: obviously forty four. But one of the real reason I 247 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: work for you for is my dad had a guy 248 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: named Kirk Tashi who was like his favorite player, actually 249 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: stuntry his second favorite player to coach at u W Milwaukee. 250 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: His favorite player, uh uh to to coach was actually 251 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: Dave Webber, Bruce Webber's brother. But I love Kirkkashy. I 252 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: thought he was just the coolest, right, So that's why 253 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: I work forty four. Did you have of the guys 254 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: your dad coach? Was there somebody who you were and 255 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: maybe nobody knows this guy's name, like that was my 256 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: guy when I was a kid. Yeah, you know, um, 257 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: I mean the name that comes to the mind. You know, 258 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: A couple of guys, A couple of guys actually that 259 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: when my dad was coaching at a different junior college, 260 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: Arizona Western. Uh, he had Booger Smith. You know. It 261 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: was the playground legend from from Brooklyn. Cover Sports Illustrated 262 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: sold the whole the whole deal, and uh Booger taught 263 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: me all all his tricks, Baul Haley tricks and whatnot. 264 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: And I thought, I thought that guy just walked on water. 265 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: And I never wore his name. I believe he were 266 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: number four teen for my dad. Which was the only 267 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: time you ever played organized basketball. Uh. The other guy 268 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: was Denmark Reid, whose name is Stdomar's cousin. He's Mr 269 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: Oregon back in the same school, Arizona Western. They played 270 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: to get him and Booger played together. I end up 271 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: being a stand up player in Mexico, staying he was. 272 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: He was probably the best shooter I've ever seen until 273 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: I met his cousin, Seliem Stodhomar when we were teammates 274 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: in Arizona, and those two guys were very influential me 275 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: at at a young age. Slim is an interesting one. 276 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: But by the way, I mean the names are great. 277 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: Booger obviously a nickname, but but Denmark is a great name, 278 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: like E's here. It's it's just something about some dudes 279 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: they just have they go by a nickname. It's a 280 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: great nickname, or they have just a name that just 281 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: kind of you know, like like it's it's really it's 282 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: it's kind of fascinating when when you when you look 283 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: back that way, Um uh, what what was it like? Okay, 284 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: so so the best team in Arizona you're part of 285 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: the roster was Stop Stack. What was what was what 286 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: was your favorite group? I mean I was only there 287 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: for for two years. Uh my first year, I transferd 288 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: from a junior college in Florida, uh and walked on 289 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: a Arizon for Little Olson's team and um oh four 290 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: oh five. I mean I thought we were the best 291 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,359 Speaker 1: team in the country. And our starting lineup was Mustaffish 292 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: and curse Leem Stott, ameyer Son, Adams of von Redenovichi 293 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: and uh Cheney Fry and you know we lost. And 294 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: see we lost in the Elite eight to Darren Williams 295 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: in Illinois were we were up by six team with 296 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: two and a half minutes love to come back, and 297 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: you know, I thought we should have won that game. 298 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: And I thought we would have been North Carolina, you know, 299 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: you know, ultimately if we had gone to the Final 300 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: four and all that, and so I was there, but 301 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: it was it was a great to be part of 302 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: that team. But what was that you beat Upland State 303 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: to get there? I to get the only day. Oh yeah, 304 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: Seem had a huge shot at the end. That that was. 305 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: That was That was a great game. That was That 306 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: was one of the best games I've ever seen. Yeah, 307 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: it's that group is interesting. Mustafa was the most highly 308 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: touted point guard in the country coming out of Philadelphia. UM, 309 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: and it's it. This is kind of the interesting transition 310 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: for me, UM in what you do now. You know, look, 311 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: you've been an agent, you've been around ball your whole life, 312 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: and now you evaluate guys. Why didn't he make Why 313 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: why wasn't I'm always like I have my own and 314 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: we can discuss it, kind of thoughts on it. But 315 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: like he was, Um, what was the guy's name, Shabaz 316 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: Mohammed was like the next version of that where it 317 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: was so good at the au high school level and 318 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: not a bat like like Mastava wasn't a bad college 319 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: but it was a good college player. But to go 320 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: from the number one point guard in the country to 321 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: being out of basketball, you know, not being an NBA 322 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: player really, UM is interesting to me. And it goes 323 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: through Luke's program, which is like point guard you right, 324 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: like that dude one because of the guys who he 325 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: surrounded people with, two because he let you like three, 326 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: because of how they coached you, Like, you know, all 327 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: these other guys made it. But you just mentioned three guys, 328 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: Hassan and Selene and we stop. Let's start with Mustafa. 329 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: Why do you think he wasn't He didn't evolve into 330 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: what some thought he could be, you know. I mean 331 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: he was so hyped up out of high school. I 332 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: mean I think if I remember, he was rad higher 333 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: than Chris Paul and he's number one point guard in 334 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: the country, and you know, goes across across the country 335 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: from Philly. Uh, like you said, point guard, you with 336 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: lud Olsen and expectations, I think we're even higher from 337 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: from that standpoint. And uh. You know, Mustafa is such 338 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: a worker. And I think the combination of the amount 339 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: of pressure he puts on himself and the pressure that 340 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: came with being the number one point guard in the 341 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 1: country and sort of looked at is the next savior 342 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: you know of Arizona and the next big point guard, 343 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: and there's just a lot of pressure, and I think, uh, 344 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: I think it got to him a little bit. Um. Yeah, 345 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: I think he really had a hard time sort of 346 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: loosening up as a player. You know, I think a 347 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: lot of his is I mean in that Illinois games specifically, 348 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: he had a lot of turnovers, and I think a 349 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: lot of it was He's in his head a lot. 350 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of pressure internally, a lot 351 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: of pressure from the outside on him, um, and you know, 352 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: and and and I think, you know, kind of putting 353 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: my agent head on for a second. There's two ways 354 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: looking at too. I mean he did have a successful career, 355 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: play internationally, a couple of couples of coffee in the NBA, 356 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: So I mean he didn't live up to his initial expectations, 357 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: but playing them, you know, played it professionally for a 358 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: long time. And question, I think sometimes it's unfair to 359 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: put such high expectations on these sixteen seventeen year old 360 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: because we don't know what they're gonna be. You know, Yeah, 361 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: I think it's a It's a great point you made. 362 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: It's like I had this conversation. I have a living 363 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: your old son, and I've kind of turned him in, 364 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: you know, because you know he's asking, you know, hey, 365 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: why didn't you If your people walk around, they they 366 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: always say nicer things about you. Think how you really 367 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: were as a player, and people say your dad was 368 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: a great player. He's like, well, how can you even 369 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: play in the NBA. I was like, well, I couldn't 370 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: make a shot. I didn't think I could make a shot. 371 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: And so you know, like it it really really, you know, 372 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: it harmed my career. I was like, but like I 373 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: played in Russia, we want to rush and she ampionship. 374 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: I played in Israel, played in France. I've played in 375 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: all these minor leagues. And it's like I tell kids 376 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: and their parents all the time, like, outside of play 377 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: in the NBA, anything you could ever dream of doing 378 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: in basketball, I've done. And so there is this we 379 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: we we we pollute people's minds. Which you're only successful 380 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: is somehow you're a starter, you're an NBA All Stars. Like, hey, dude, 381 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: there's five hundred thousand high school basketball players. Just to 382 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: play in college, you're the best one percent in college 383 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: in in America. And then to play professionally, forget about 384 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: the NBA, you're like the one percent of that. It's 385 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: really really, really hard, um, And then to play in 386 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: the NBA there's four hundred and fifty jobs. You know, 387 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: a little bit more this year obviously because the rosters 388 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: are deep. But the point is like it's fucking hard, 389 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, and it doesn't make you a failure if 390 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: you don't become Chris Paul. But it is interesting, you know, 391 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: Like we had this conversation last night and uh, and 392 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: he was we got shots up and we have the 393 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: doctor Dish machine. I was like, hey, let's get it. 394 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: Let's get it, like, let's get two more up. He's like, 395 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: I'm just tired my day off, And I just said, listen, 396 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna tell you when you're in your forties, 397 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: like you're gonna look back and they're like, man, was 398 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: it really worth it? Was that video game really worth it? 399 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: You know? So I do. I wonder how much it's 400 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: because I beat myself up over mental constraints and work ethic. 401 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: You know, like I knew I worked hard, but you 402 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: don't realize how hard everybody else is working. When you 403 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: think you've made it and in the journey is only 404 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: become begun. Um okay, So how did you get into 405 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: the field of being an agent? How did that? How 406 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: did that transition from Arizona to being an agent take place? Yeah? 407 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: You know, I never never planned on being an agent. 408 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up my whole life. You know, 409 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: my dad's who uncle's work in the NBA. My dad 410 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: was a college coach before gotten the NBA, and um, 411 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: you know, myself and my two cousins we always plan 412 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: on being coaches or falling our dad's footsteps, and you know, 413 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: I think the ultimate goal was U. So we all 414 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: wanted to play in the NBA, but past that, we 415 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: all wanted to be you know, general managers in the NBA. Uh. 416 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: And so from Arizona, my first job was I drove 417 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: from Tucson, l A I worked for Wasburing Media Group, 418 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: which was a sports agency in the biggest sports agency 419 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: in the world at the time. But my job was 420 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: to assist Dave Vieger, who was a D League coach 421 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: at the time, to the train all of their pre 422 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: draft guys. And they had seven first round picks that year. 423 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: We had. They had LaMarcus Alters but he stayed in 424 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: Austin train but we had Brandon Roy, Sheldon Williams, JJ Reddick, 425 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: Jordan Farmer, Joel Freelance. We had this incredible group and 426 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: it was Dave Yegger and I worked with the guys 427 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: every day and it was just a summer internship and 428 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: that was sort of my uh, you know, my first 429 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: look at the agency business. I never really thought about 430 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: too much. I met some of them, you know, just 431 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: kind of hanging around the NBA with my dad's and 432 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: all that, but never gave it too much thought. And 433 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: from there, I I still wanted to be a coach, 434 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: and I took a job as an assistant coach of 435 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: the twenty three year old with Vercuse Bologna, you know, 436 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: top team in Italy. Did that for did that for 437 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: half a season, got a little homesick um, and I 438 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: got a job opportunity to work for Excel Sports Management 439 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: to be a junior agent, and I jumped at the opportunity. 440 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: I moved back to l A and I just had, 441 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: you know, one opportunity after after another, and the next 442 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: thing I knew, I've been doing it for ten years 443 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: and had my own agency, and uh, you know, after 444 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: you know, five or six years, you know, the real 445 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: negatives in that business started to come to light. And 446 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: it became a sort of a common theme of conversations 447 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: I have with my wife and my family. I'm like, hey, 448 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if I want to do 449 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: this the rest of my life. I don't know if 450 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: this is the you know, the place in the world 451 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: I want to be in. And uh, you know, I 452 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: really missing you know, being quote unquote a true basketball person, 453 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: and uh so I kind of threw out some feelers 454 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: in the NBA. I had some interesting conversations about you 455 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: joining front offices and different scouting positions, and nothing came together. 456 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: After a couple of years of doing that, I asked 457 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: my wife, I was, I do mind if I make 458 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: a drastic move and uh, you know, cash out of 459 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: the agency business as much as I can and kind 460 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: of bet on myself to kind of create recreate myself 461 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: in basketball. And that's what I did. And so I 462 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: started volunteer scouting and and uh, you know, eventually started 463 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: writing for sports Ulcer and then went on to launch 464 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: Babcock Coups. But it was it's been a roller coaster 465 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: pretty much from the Arizona until today. It's been it's 466 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: been kind of crazy Ryan for me. Okay, let's let's 467 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: go to that first summer. Okay, first of all, I 468 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 1: know Dave, So Dave coach the Dakota Wizards, not just 469 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: in the cb A, coaching in the usb L, and like, 470 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: it's it's really interesting on how I'm I'm I'm very 471 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,719 Speaker 1: similar to you obviously, as you know, you know, my 472 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: dad was a college assistant college head coach. But then 473 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: you know, started to you know, the an a U 474 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: program and what he did, and I found fascinating is 475 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: he knew like basketball, as you know, and people are 476 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: listening to this pod now it's a it's a family, right, 477 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: and you know, if you don't know somebody you're coaching, 478 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: Tree knows somebody who knows somebody. But he had been 479 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: he had been around it so long he literally knew everybody. 480 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: And he was like all lobby team in the final four, 481 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: and he would place kids in college and somewhere along 482 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: the line, someone's like, hey, you know, you should probably 483 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: charge for this service. Like so I'm like you Like 484 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: I always thought, like, all right, well, I'm and play. 485 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: I want to try and make the NBA or play 486 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: in a different country every year, and then I want 487 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: to coach or maybe a broadcaster, and broadcasting thing just 488 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: kind of happened, you know, but I do. I'm I'm 489 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: I totally understand the idea of like I love basketball, 490 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: like I host the national radio show, but I love 491 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: basketball more than anything. I love being and just it's 492 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: it's hard, like sometimes the more successful you are in 493 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: a business, it pushes you away from the part of 494 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: the sport that you actually like. That's why I love 495 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: coaching kids or coaching teams on overseas trips or whatever. Okay, 496 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: so let's go to that first summer. Okay, so you 497 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: mentioned all these guys, and it's interesting. Obviously Brandon Roy, 498 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: injuries aside, became a tremendous NBA player. Um, it's crazy 499 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: that JJ Reddick is still playing right like crazy, because 500 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: early on in his career people would go like, wow, 501 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: he was really overdrafted, right going that high. And yet 502 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: you look at the longevity and how the game has 503 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: evolved some um, and then you look at Sheldon Williams, 504 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: and he was out of the league rather quickly. At 505 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: some of that is the evolution of the league. Some 506 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: of that is his lack of evolution as a player. 507 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: If you can remember back to that summer. And then 508 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: you got Jordan Farmer, who I loved as a player. 509 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: UM played in the league last in the league, but 510 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: didn't really stick his and he was a McDonald's All 511 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: American starting point guard at u c L, a very 512 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: good point guard. If you can remember back to those workouts, 513 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: did you could you and you're twenty three years old, 514 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: did you think at the time those guys careers would 515 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: play out as they did? Uh? You know, Brandon Roy 516 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: for sure, I mean it was so apparent in those 517 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: workouts that this this guy's special and he had legitimate 518 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: size and he had so much more burst than you realize. 519 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: I watched him on TV whatnot, and I had to 520 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: do sort of like a bunch of dummy defense on 521 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: him and he would just shake me out of my 522 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: shoes left and right. And he was so strong and 523 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: it was good with the ball. I mean, obviously, you 524 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: know his uh, you know, his knees didn't hold up, 525 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: his body didn't hold up, and that's why his career 526 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: was short. But I mean, what a great player. Uh 527 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,239 Speaker 1: and JJ I mean just you know, shooting translates, and 528 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: he's a really smart player. He was then he is 529 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: now uh and a worker. I think one thing that 530 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: was interesting with j j Uh and he and I 531 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: became really close during that time, is he told me 532 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: he didn't do anything in the weight room at Duke, 533 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: and so I think when he got to the NBA, 534 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: he really applied himself of getting his body together, and 535 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: I think that's one big part of what's helped him 536 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: stay stay in the league for so long. I'man obviously 537 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: shooting and understand the game and and sort of being 538 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: assuming the game is most important, but he's also take 539 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: care of his body's got so much stronger. I mean, 540 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: I think that at that point he's pretty physically weak. 541 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: And what you said about Sheldon, Um, you know, I 542 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: just don't think he translated as well as he was 543 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: sort of like a throwback big. I mean, he's like, 544 00:26:54,320 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, six eight six nine in the ninety in seventies. 545 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: Sheldy Williams is still playing in the NBA. Right, You're 546 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: collecting it, still collecting a check, starting fights off the bench, 547 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: you know, but you you gotta be out. You gotta 548 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: be able to move. He wasn't. If you're gonna be 549 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: a low post score, you gotta be able to be 550 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: a bucket every time. And then where do you stick 551 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: a guy defensively? And I and I and I think 552 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: that's a it's a great It's an interesting part about 553 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, your evaluations now, which is whether it's high 554 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: school evaluators or fans kids themselves, Like we just we 555 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: look at box scores or what a guy does with 556 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: the ball. But in the NBA, like, okay, Kenny guard anybody. 557 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: And then the next part, Kenny guard everybody. Right, there's 558 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: the two things because you have to your everybody. You're 559 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: gonna switch at some point in the NBA, kendyguard anybody, 560 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: and then kindyguard everybody, and then and then offensively, Now 561 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: can you shoot? And then obviously can you do all 562 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: the other things that are that are involved in Sheldon, 563 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, couldn't shoot and didn't really guard his guy 564 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: let alone, couldn't guard anybody else. I'm not trying to 565 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: be hyper critical. There's lots of guys like, right, he 566 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: didn't translate as well, You're absolutely right, So um okay, 567 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: so real quick on the agent business and that this 568 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: has been my This is I've always loved this part, 569 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: which is when you know you get in you gotta 570 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: get kids, and sometimes you know early do you have 571 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: to overpromise and then you end up under delivering like 572 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: the second round is always kids get drafted in the 573 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: second round and the agent gets fired, right, which is 574 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: like looking, you know, I told you you know anywhere 575 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: between twenty and forty you get drafted, you know forty five, 576 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: and I get I get fired and the second agent 577 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: comes in, swoops in and and you know where you 578 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: were drafted appropriately and he because is that is that 579 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: what chased you out of the business. What what I 580 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: mean there? There was a number of things, Yeah, recruiting, 581 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: I mean the whole landscape of the business. I mean 582 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: obviously a lot of it's come to line last few 583 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: years DEPBUI, investigation in the scheme and all that stuff, 584 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I mean growing up in a 585 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: basketball family, and not even just a basketball family, but 586 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: like a you know, a family that takes pride in 587 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: being ethical, I felt like a lot of pressure of uh, 588 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: you know, doing things the right way, and I learned 589 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: pretty quickly I was at a major disadvantage by doing 590 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: things by the book, uh, and that that war on 591 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: me over time. I mean I worked for a lot 592 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: of the big companies early on in my career and 593 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: gradually went to more boutique situations by design, just because 594 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: I felt it fitting my stoff, like you could have 595 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: a better opportunity of not getting your hands as dirty 596 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: and having some success. But after ten years and I 597 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: felt I was at a point where I understood the 598 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: business really well. I felt like I was very effective 599 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: as an agent as far as when I representing players, 600 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: I was getting smoked and recruiting though I just you know, 601 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: my client list wasn't growing at the same rate that 602 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: that I felt like I was improving as an agent. 603 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: And that's just that's a that's a hard pill to 604 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: swallow when you're not getting as much success as you 605 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: think you should be getting. Uh. And I just missed 606 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: being directly and ball to the basketball even though I 607 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: was talking basketball with my players and recruiting basketball players. 608 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: You know, it's different than evaluating players and talking about 609 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: it and or coaching guys and um. So there's a 610 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: combination of all those things, but all the negative aspects 611 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: that we're all aware of now, but the agency business, 612 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: those are probably the main things that drove me out. Okay, 613 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: but there are success stories, right who's the one guy 614 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: who you've had your greatest success stories? And agents who 615 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: mhm um, Well, I mean I think it wouldn't necessarily 616 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: be the big big names. I mean I think the 617 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: bigger the bigger names represent easier the job is, you know, 618 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: I mean, everybody you know talks about these super agents 619 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: that represent these top ten picks. Is the easiest job 620 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: in the world. All you gotta do is answer your 621 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: phone and say, yes, you know, um some of the 622 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: guys that I you know, when I first went on 623 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: completely on my own. Um. I signed two players that 624 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,719 Speaker 1: one undrafted and that weren't big names. I signed, Oh, 625 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: Lou Ashalout from Oregon and Clinton Chapman from Texas, and uh, 626 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, I thought, oh, who had a chance to 627 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: point the NBA went undrafted? But both those guys, um, 628 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, really bet on me. I was. I think 629 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: I was twenty six years old the time I'd started 630 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: a basketball division for a hockey agency. I was really 631 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: I had some you know, finances behind me as far 632 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: as allowing me travel and all that. But uh started started, 633 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: Uh started the basketball division without any clients. I had 634 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: left a group where we represent ten NBA players. Those 635 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: guys bet on me as a young guy, and that 636 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: they're still playing. I think the clintch haven't just wrapped 637 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: it up. They had great careers overseas and uh, they 638 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: really followed my plan and stuck with me the whole 639 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: time I was as an agent. That's those are my 640 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: best feel good stories, just because you know, we went 641 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: through it all together and really had success, you know, 642 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: you know, considering where they had come from. Yeah, it's interesting. 643 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: You know the other part is now and I know 644 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: the overseas. Game is changing and a lot of it's 645 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: a lot better and now obviously has a cell phone. 646 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: But I mean, I can't imagine like when you're twenty three, 647 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: your features Bologna're right, you have no cell phone. You're 648 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: going over there, coaches speaking a different language. You know 649 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: players or are you're you're you're younger than all the 650 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: players except for maybe the you know, a couple of 651 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: the juniors or whatever. Like I I've told this story. 652 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: I've told a bunch of different you know stories in 653 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: this pod. My my favorite one still is when I 654 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: flew to Russia. I landed in Moscow and I had 655 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: like no cell phone. I just a guy had a 656 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: sign that was written in Russian and had a basketball 657 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: on it, and I was got in his car and 658 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: I remember, I remember I was in his car where 659 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: I'm like fading in and out of the consciousness and 660 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: look it up and thinking, you know, if he decided 661 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: to like rob me and like leave me for dead, 662 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: and that nobody's gonna know for a month when I 663 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: was gonna know, be like what I'm to Godly, I 664 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: haven't heard from him in a while. I heard you 665 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: went to go play over seas somewhere. Uh, but it is, 666 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: it is. How did you man How hard was that 667 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: to manage your players overseas? You're young, not crazy experience. 668 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: They're calling you or emailing you on hotmail back in 669 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: the day. I mean, you're just out of the hotmail era. 670 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: How did you handle all of that? You know? It 671 00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: was hard? I mean, you know, once I got to 672 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: that point where I was, I was representing a lot 673 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: of players on my own. Uh My model was I 674 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: needed to sign a lot of players because I wanted 675 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: to sort of low overhead guys that I can get 676 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: relatively cheap and place them in good spots overseas and 677 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: build them up and just kind of stacked my chips 678 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: rather than you know how a lot of big agencies 679 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: were as far as signed big names and make a 680 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: bunch of money on a less amount of players. And 681 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: so I was having to manage a lot. And when 682 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: you have that many irons in the fire, that there's 683 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: gonna be some stuff that blows up in your face. 684 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean I said, you know, 685 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: I went went to coach in Italy as a twenty 686 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: three year old um and I got homesick, you know, 687 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: and and I had been I'd probably been a little 688 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: bit more well traveled at that point than a lot 689 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: of these kids that were going over as rookies. And um, 690 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of guys just weren't built 691 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: for that that world, being far from home and dealing 692 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: with the language bearers and the cultural differences and all 693 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: that and so um and a lot of times when 694 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,479 Speaker 1: when the kids unhappy, the agent gets blamed, whether it's 695 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: the agents fold or not. And so you know, you know, 696 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: it's funny a lot of parents and players now still 697 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: lean on me to help them, you know, select agents 698 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: or deal with agents and whatnot. And um, you know, 699 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: it's it's a crazy business because it's just to manage 700 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: the expectations. It's it's sometimes impossible, you know, because it's 701 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: just it's such an it's such an unprecedented thing for 702 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: these parents. These players understands that you tell them all 703 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: the all the things that they need to know or 704 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: you think they need to know. Um, you know, but 705 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: sometimes it's just a it's a shocker when they get 706 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,439 Speaker 1: out of how hard was it for you to help 707 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: a guy make a decision? Where like, look, I mean 708 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: because my first club, my was my second really, but um, 709 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: you know, I was with herberw Doy and Inner Performances 710 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: and they were huge, and they put together a club 711 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: team in two thousand because there were some changing rules, 712 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: and I end up not being able to play for 713 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: them because I didn't get my Israeli passport. So then 714 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: my first club was actually, uh, you're a greaton perm Russia. 715 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: We won the Russian Championship and that was a great experience. 716 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: But in hindsight, that should have been like my third year, right, 717 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: like my first year should have been Germany, you know, 718 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: with a mid level team where I could have the 719 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: ball and just go play, you know, and and maybe 720 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: not make as much money, not worried about the bonuses 721 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: and the championships. And it's it's to me like again, 722 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: like I and I'm sure you're you're you're you're not 723 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: in your head because you would get it, like you're 724 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: trying to convince not just the player, Hey take a 725 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: little less money because in the end, in five years 726 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: you could be playing in EuroLeague because you need to 727 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: learn the European game. You need to learn to live overseas, 728 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: need to learn to play with foreign players and playing 729 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: against men, and you need to kind of you know, 730 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: put up numbers, right, Frank, right, and those numbers aren't salary. 731 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: But we all come out thinking like I gotta make 732 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: some money. Now, like I gotta I gotta make some money. 733 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: How how how hard? What what's that like to manage? 734 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: From the agent side? No, extremely hard? And you're absolutely right. 735 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: I Mean one thing I always preached was this first year. 736 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: You know, you know, it's not deal where you you 737 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: don't look at the money. You need always look at 738 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: the money and any kind of business deals, but it 739 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: really needs the priority news to be we use this 740 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: as a stepping stone. One just kind of gets you, 741 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: kind of gets you warmed up the whole international basketball, 742 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: but also like you know, build up your market properly. 743 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,439 Speaker 1: Uh you know, and like you said, I mean going 744 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: to Russia as a young guy, that's that's a different animal. 745 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: I mean we're talking about Europe. There's Europe and then 746 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: there's Russia. I mean the lifestyle is harder. Um, you know, 747 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: I mean I would be hesitant to sent a young 748 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: guy that's not ready ready for for the European the 749 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: whole deal right off the bat. I mean, you know 750 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: a lot of times we'll look at we would look 751 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: at France, Germany and Belgium. I feel like the transition 752 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: would be a little easier for some of the younger 753 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: guys rather than going to Eastern Europe or places like 754 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: that where it's you know, the cultural differences are are 755 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: pretty dramatic. But yeah, it's it's uh, you know, it 756 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: felt like a never ending battle each year when when 757 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: we signed new rookies and by the time I got 758 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: out my last year is an agent. Um, the G 759 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: League it just got going with two way contracts and 760 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: affiliate player deals, which was a whole another struggle of 761 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: trying to convince guys not to chase the NBA and 762 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: start their career overseas. And uh, it's funny. I actually 763 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: had py Jaquan Lewis from the PCU that year. Um, 764 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: and you know, he's a borderlineing BA. I went undrafted 765 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: and we had we had like deals for him the 766 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: euro League and he turned it down to take an 767 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: affiliate player deal in the g LEAD, which I told 768 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: him not to, but I understood even needed to scratch 769 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: that itch as far as chasing chasing his dreams goes 770 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: the GAL he doesn't make much money for a year 771 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: and then it ends up in Europe the second year 772 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: for for deals that weren't nearly as good as we 773 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: got the rookie year. And so that's just kind of 774 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: an example of like it's all, it's all kind of screwing, 775 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: and it's it's really hard to tell these players and parents, 776 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, the right decision because they're going through it 777 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: for the first time, and you know, even if they 778 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: trust you, it's hard to it's hard to listen to 779 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: an agent about about big life decisions like that, just 780 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, kind of blindly. Yeah, Mass it's a great point, 781 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: like had Ja Kwan gone to the euro League and 782 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: then come back, he would have been better because he 783 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: would have shot the ball so well and understood the 784 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: spacing and the nuances of it. And well, you know, 785 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: it's funny I started to cut you off, as you know, 786 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: we so I wrote that contract from scratch, and uh, 787 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: you know who end up taking that job was the 788 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:07,800 Speaker 1: kid from Gonzaga, Um Nigel, which is the Nigel. So 789 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: he took that job and then the following year he 790 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: played in the NBA for the Jazz you know, And 791 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: so I was just kind of like, you know, it's 792 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: sort of sort of like one of those deals where 793 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: I like, hey, I told you so, you know I 794 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: just should taking that job. Yeah, No, it's it's it's 795 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: it's a hard okay, so babcock coot um, you launch 796 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: it and you do an unbelievable job in terms of 797 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: player evals. Um, what was your eval on LaMelo coming 798 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: into the year. Yes, I mean I fall LaMelo since 799 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: he's been in high school. Um, just like everybody else 800 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: has really and um, you know, he's sort of like 801 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: a mixed bag with him. I mean I love the size, 802 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: it's just natural playmaking ability. I mean the big concerns 803 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: where I mean in Australia, especially like his shot selection 804 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: and his lack of effort on defense. Uh, and just 805 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: sort of his his his whole stick of of know 806 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: being known as somewhat entitled. Those were the big holdups 807 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, so far in Charlotte, I mean 808 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: he's been great and from what I understand, you know, 809 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: talking to some coaches in the league, that he's playing hard, 810 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: he's been very coachable. I hope it lasts because I 811 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: mean he's got a ton of talent. I mean, he's 812 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: got star potential, and if he's able to kind of 813 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: get away from some of those, uh you know, concerns 814 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: and negatives. I mean, he could be a big time player. Yeah, 815 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I talked to the Warriors guys, 816 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: and I feel I feel bad because here's my take 817 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: on on the Warriors. What what not? Enough people in 818 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: my part of business have a are able to conceptualize this. Look, 819 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: Steph is great, okay, but he's he's very good with 820 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: the ball in his hands, but he's probably better without 821 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: the ball in his hands. And what they built, the 822 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: perfect team that they built was they had all these 823 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: they had all these multi and it's not just multi 824 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,919 Speaker 1: position guys because that's like an easy one. They had 825 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,320 Speaker 1: so many point what you know, Kevin Durants a point forward, 826 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: uh Draymond Green is a point forward, point center really 827 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: for them. Andrew Goodala's just to he played in the 828 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: five for them, but he can handle the ball. And 829 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: because he wasn't a great shooter, he came later in 830 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: his career he became very good. Pastor Sean Livingston was 831 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: the number one point guard in the country right like 832 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: you look. And even when they had Andrew Bogan, Like 833 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: Andrew Bog's a great passer, not just a great screener, 834 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: but a great passer. So it gave him the ability 835 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: to if he didn't have the basketball, just go and 836 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: move and we'll find you. And so the new construction 837 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 1: of that team they had without except with the steps 838 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: and Draymond, none of those guys. Like I'm not as 839 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: down on Andrew Wiggins as the rest of the world is, 840 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: but Andrew Wiggins is a wing. He is not. There 841 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: is no point in what he does um and the 842 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: same goes for I mean, so they drafted Wiseman, who 843 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: I think has a lot of talent potential. But I 844 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: look back and I think of how they like to 845 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 1: play it, and I understood, like the dad I think 846 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: scared him. I think the persona scared him. The lack 847 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: of playing hard and playing tough scared him. And I'm 848 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: sure Steve Kerr was just like that, not worth it. 849 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: But considering man like dude, kid can really see it, 850 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 1: can really pass and if he buys in size wise 851 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: a multi positional defender, like I kind of think they 852 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 1: missed even if just because not how good he could be, 853 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: but what it can do for Steph And that's what 854 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: and it's very early. I totally understand and he's played 855 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: professional basketball. Whison played three games in college. There's a 856 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: total curve there. I get it. But that's kind of 857 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: like a month in that's my hindsight. Yeah, I mean 858 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: I love Wiseman. I mean, so it's sort of sort 859 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,399 Speaker 1: of one of these things where it's just I think 860 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: he could be a high profile guy too. I mean 861 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: when it's all a sudden. I mean, he's he's so 862 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: big and fluid and he's already producing, you know, for 863 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: for a big guy at his age, is pretty impressive. 864 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: With mellow, I mean, I think the jury is still out. 865 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: I mean, he's definitely shown that that he's got start potential. 866 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: I mean we we all thought that. I mean his 867 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: playmaking abilities, passing ability, that was already there. Uh from 868 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: the outside looking on end, I don't think they're starting 869 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: to him on purpose. They're putting him on a leash 870 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: to keep him in check. I mean, what are things 871 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: gonna be like when he gets comfortable. Is he's still 872 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: going to defend and play hard to be coachable? Then, Um, 873 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: that's where I think the concern. Great point. You know, 874 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 1: it's still at least for me, it's still there, like 875 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: we're not we're not. You know, Charles not totally safe 876 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: here with this kid. They got to keep this in 877 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: the right direction and keep him on point, and hopefully 878 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: they're able to do it, because I mean, I'd love 879 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: to see him paximize's potential. And look, if we're if 880 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: we're being honest, one league, it ain't really there's some 881 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,839 Speaker 1: teams that haven't played, hadn't played since March, and there's 882 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: some teams that just got done playing like last week, right, 883 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: and so we have this disparity in it, and what 884 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,439 Speaker 1: not enough of us admit, when you're coming out the bench, 885 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,840 Speaker 1: you're playing against bench players, right, You're not played against stars. 886 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: And and I think being in Charlotte is a lot 887 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: is a good thing, Right, You're away from the bright 888 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: lights in the big city. And and and look, I'm 889 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,800 Speaker 1: interested to see how he handles like you are the 890 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: the fame and the attention, because because they only show 891 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: the highlights on Sports Center, right, they don't show the 892 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 1: defense possessions where he gives up or the miss finishes. Um. 893 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: What about Zion? What now we've we've seen him and 894 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: a year and a half. Um, obviously there's a draw, 895 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:28,280 Speaker 1: jaw dropping draw, jaw dropping amount of potential there. Um, 896 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: But I'm wondering where you are on Zion on if 897 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: he's going to achieve that because of the the game 898 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: things that hold him back to shooting, um, the you know, 899 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 1: his body and the injuries. If you were to give 900 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,439 Speaker 1: your honest evaluation, which that's what bab Cock who's does 901 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: on on Zion Williamson at this point in time, what 902 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: would it be. Yeah, I've always loved Zion. I mean 903 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: I loved him at Duke. I mean I had him 904 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: as the clear number one. I mean pretty much started 905 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: early in the season and that never wavered. I think 906 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,400 Speaker 1: the gets concerned for me, it's not as much the 907 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: outside shooting. Obviously, if he's able to kind of develop there, 908 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: that's a good thing. But even if he doesn't, I 909 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,280 Speaker 1: still think he's going to be an extremely effective player. 910 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,360 Speaker 1: The biggest concerns are his body and keeping his body healthy. 911 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he's obviously got the huge body type. 912 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 1: I mean keeping that weight down and you know, staying 913 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 1: staying fluid as an athlete and staying healthy and staying 914 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: on the floor. I think if he's able to do that, 915 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's gonna be one of the 916 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,919 Speaker 1: better players in the league probably probably for a long time. Um. 917 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: I think I think college basketball is changing dramatically. And um, 918 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,919 Speaker 1: outside of this pod, I don't know how many people 919 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 1: have admitted it, like because you're losing a couple of 920 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: the top kids a year now to the G League 921 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: select and that will continue. Now Kentucky and Duke are 922 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 1: fighting over maybe a little bit second tier, and I'm 923 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,359 Speaker 1: not trying to diminish those kids, right and then when 924 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna always lose a kid Cunningham because at Oklahoma 925 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: State you lose now of a sudden. Whereas you used 926 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: to be able to compete with older teams if you 927 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: had the top five kids in the country, when you 928 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 1: have fifteen to thirty five, you got It's very hard, 929 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 1: very hard, because now they're really young, and they're just 930 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 1: they're not They're not Anthony Davis, they're not Eric Bledsoe, 931 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,919 Speaker 1: they're not John wall they're not DeMarcus Cousins. It's it's 932 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 1: it's it's different. Um. Is that a fair assumption? That 933 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 1: is that a fair assessment that the Yeah, I agree, 934 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: I think it's Uh. I think you know, grassroots college, 935 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: these alternate options. I think that's just gonna get get 936 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: you become a bigger and bigger focal point as far 937 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: as guys translate, you know, transitions to the NBA and 938 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: all that, and um, you know, I think a lot 939 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 1: of these one and done type players are going to 940 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,839 Speaker 1: you know, keep doing these alternate options. I think there's 941 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 1: gonna be even more of them. It's what we're gonna 942 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: look at is college basketball is probably gonna be more 943 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 1: of a hotbed to go get good, solid players that 944 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,280 Speaker 1: have been groomed by the Jay Wrights and Tony Bennetts 945 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 1: and Io's. Uh you know as that are probably juniors 946 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: and seniors that are coming in that know how to 947 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: play that you could you know, plug and play as 948 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,400 Speaker 1: role players. Because I do think these guys that you know, 949 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: are marketable sevent eight year olds, they're probably gonna go 950 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,560 Speaker 1: get some money legally. Um, Luca Garza, what is he 951 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,839 Speaker 1: in the NBA? You know, he's he's such a tough 952 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: one because I mean he's such a stud in college. 953 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 1: I mean he's just he's been producing on such a 954 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,319 Speaker 1: high level. I just don't know if he translates that well. 955 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean we've got him at sixty right now, and 956 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,800 Speaker 1: our big board which I'm sure a lot of college 957 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: basketball fans would would go up in arms about. He's 958 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: just you know, his foot speed, it's just a big problem. 959 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you know the way the NBA's play right now, 960 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,280 Speaker 1: everything is so spread out, there's so many high picking roles. 961 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:41,440 Speaker 1: I just don't know if he could keep up. But 962 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: at the same time, and he's one of those guys 963 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: you don't want to bet against. I mean, he's just 964 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: he's such a tough kid and just he's just a winner. Um, 965 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: he's a challenge you want to evaluate. I told his dad, 966 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 1: I was like, can you tell Luca to stop wearing 967 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:59,399 Speaker 1: black shoes? It's actually stop wearing black sneakers. And he's 968 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,880 Speaker 1: like why. I go like, look, your son has a 969 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,240 Speaker 1: reputation of not having great feet. He's a great offensive player, 970 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 1: not having a great feet. When you wear black shoes, 971 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 1: it makes your feet look even slower, Like, please tell 972 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,840 Speaker 1: him to stop wearing But but yeah, it's it's a 973 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: hard one because he can and and and it's not 974 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: like you can't shoot. He's made himself into a very 975 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 1: good three point shooter. But it's what about the other 976 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: end of the floor. Um, you know, the scoring in 977 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 1: the post isn't as valuable. Uh and and and you know, 978 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: can you be as efficient offensively against better players, um, 979 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,920 Speaker 1: in a short period of time where you're not getting shots? Right? Like, 980 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: that's the real challenge there. It's not just can you 981 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: score against better players from further out? It's can you 982 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: do it in a you know, Now you've gotta come 983 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,319 Speaker 1: off the bench where you've been a starter, you know, 984 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,640 Speaker 1: and gotten twenty five shots. If you missed your first five, 985 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,200 Speaker 1: you're getting five more. That ain't the way it works 986 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: in the NBA. You missed your first five, Go sit, 987 00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 1: We'll talk to you in an hour and a half. 988 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,799 Speaker 1: Maybe we maybe needs you again. So it's it's a 989 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,279 Speaker 1: it's a hard one. What about Kate Cunningham early in 990 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: his his career? Um, who, First, what's your evail? And 991 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,319 Speaker 1: then too, do you have a comp that you like? Yeah, 992 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: I mean I've watched kde Uh you know, I live 993 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: in Denver, so I mean I'm able to hit the 994 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,319 Speaker 1: USA Basketball events, you know, really easily. And so I've 995 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,319 Speaker 1: watched them all those you know, different mini camps and 996 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,719 Speaker 1: stuff like that. And he's a stud, I mean, he's 997 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 1: he's he's so mature. You know, for for for his 998 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: age as a player's composure is great. I think, you know, 999 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,200 Speaker 1: it really makes good reads and decision making and um 1000 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,200 Speaker 1: and he's got great size and versatility. Uh, you know, 1001 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: sort of the comps for him kind of reminds me 1002 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:38,920 Speaker 1: of a guy we talked about a little earlier. He 1003 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 1: sort of reminds me of a mix between like a 1004 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,560 Speaker 1: Brandon Roy and like Luca don Chech. You know, he's 1005 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,480 Speaker 1: he's he's a big on ball guy. I think he 1006 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,560 Speaker 1: could you know, he's sort of categorized right now as 1007 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,200 Speaker 1: a point guard. I think you can use them in 1008 00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,280 Speaker 1: so many different ways, especially if he's able to continue 1009 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,279 Speaker 1: to develop his outside shooting. Um, you know, and it's 1010 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 1: we've got him as the number one guy right now. 1011 00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: Just you know, I think he's uh, you know, I 1012 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,320 Speaker 1: don't know if he's gonna ultimately be the best player 1013 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,000 Speaker 1: in this draft, but I do think he's a safe 1014 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,720 Speaker 1: pick of like, this guy is gonna be at least 1015 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 1: a pretty good good player. Who's the who's the one 1016 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: player who if somebody looks at your board they're most 1017 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:16,120 Speaker 1: surprised by. But you feel, you know, in that top fifteen, Brian, well, 1018 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we just did our first big 1019 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: board last week, and we did it strategically this late 1020 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,600 Speaker 1: because I mean we needed needed some time to catch up. 1021 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you know a big part of 1022 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,440 Speaker 1: everybody ask me, like, how's the pandemic affected your scouting? 1023 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,799 Speaker 1: And the biggest thing that it's affected is we missed 1024 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 1: all of April of doing I mean, I was all 1025 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,360 Speaker 1: set to go to McDonald's All American Game Hoops Summit, 1026 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: Order Brand Classic, Allen Iverson Classic, and that's all to 1027 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,360 Speaker 1: see the one and done before they step on campus, 1028 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,800 Speaker 1: and so we missed all that. Luckily, I do a 1029 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: lot of high school stuff, so I've seen all these kids. 1030 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:45,759 Speaker 1: But you know, we're gonna play a little a little 1031 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,239 Speaker 1: bit of a catch up. The one guy that I've 1032 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:50,839 Speaker 1: kind of gotten the most heat on that I've had 1033 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,319 Speaker 1: have so I think like eighteen or nineteen is uh 1034 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 1: is Drew Timmy from Gonzaga. And I think one of 1035 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,520 Speaker 1: the big arguments is, you know, even though I'm you know, 1036 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,120 Speaker 1: I'm in my mid thirties, I come from a background 1037 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,400 Speaker 1: similar to you where I've I've been trained as a 1038 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: scout by guys that are working in basins like the seventies, right, 1039 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,720 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm a little bit more old school traditional um, 1040 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: and I'm not as quick to say a big guys 1041 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: are are a dying breed and Timmy, to me, that 1042 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 1: guy just he's just got such a knack to put 1043 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 1: it in the hole. I don't care if he needs 1044 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,680 Speaker 1: to be, you know, a low post score. If he's 1045 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: getting his action the flow of the game, I think 1046 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,799 Speaker 1: the guy is gonna be a bucket the next next level. 1047 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,799 Speaker 1: And that's one guy that I think that people are 1048 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,399 Speaker 1: looking at and saying, hey, this is a slow white guy, 1049 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: like how's this guy fit? I think he's good enough 1050 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,040 Speaker 1: to translate to the NBA. Yeah, I think I think 1051 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,000 Speaker 1: he's also an easy teammate because he's not he's not 1052 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: not a pig. And playing with with with Jalen is 1053 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,359 Speaker 1: Jalen Suggs? Is he Jason Kidd? Who? Who is? Who 1054 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,600 Speaker 1: is he? To you? Yeah? I mean the guys that 1055 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,799 Speaker 1: that come to mind for me with him is, uh, 1056 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,440 Speaker 1: Jason Kidd, Darren Williams. I mean, you know, he's another guy. 1057 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,080 Speaker 1: Watched a lot of USA basketball events and I didn't 1058 00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,480 Speaker 1: see the point guard play at those events as much, 1059 00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,560 Speaker 1: and so I wasn't quite as high on him, but 1060 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,640 Speaker 1: man at the gate this year, he uh, he really 1061 00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,000 Speaker 1: negated those issues. I bet that kid is about as 1062 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,000 Speaker 1: true a point guard as it gets. And I mean 1063 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,080 Speaker 1: I think he's gonna give Ka to run for the money, 1064 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,320 Speaker 1: you know, possibly be the top point guard in the draft. 1065 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,520 Speaker 1: I agree. If somebody wants to to to become to 1066 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: to get all your stuff, how do they do it? 1067 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 1: Backguard coups dot com. I mean that that's our that's 1068 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 1: our main main spots. Uh. You know, we're doing a 1069 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:24,840 Speaker 1: ton of draft covers, a lot a lot of writing, 1070 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: and we're actually starting to uh scout some games. I mean, 1071 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,719 Speaker 1: I'm going to uh, we're gonna call route to today. 1072 00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,719 Speaker 1: I'm doing a high school tournament this weekend Arizona State 1073 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,759 Speaker 1: USC Saturday, boys the State wy Onming Monday, and I 1074 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,920 Speaker 1: got guys all over the country. So we're, uh, we're 1075 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,239 Speaker 1: getting after it. Hey, man, I appreciate your time. I 1076 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,799 Speaker 1: think you do a great job and your perspective, having 1077 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,440 Speaker 1: been a player, having been in a in a basketball family, 1078 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,799 Speaker 1: having been an agent, I think it's unique. And then 1079 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,560 Speaker 1: the ability to better in yourself and then when is 1080 00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: awesome awesome anytime you want to come on. You are 1081 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,880 Speaker 1: welcome here and I really appreciate your time. Thanks, I 1082 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 1: appreciate the cond words. And this is won I'm catching up, 1083 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,680 Speaker 1: but so let's get you touch for sure. Thanks Matt. 1084 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 1: All right, thanks to Matt. That was great stuff. Really 1085 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,040 Speaker 1: really you go to his website you want to check 1086 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,680 Speaker 1: out his analysis, and we had a good, uh good 1087 00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:21,919 Speaker 1: time conversation if you will. It is hard to watch 1088 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,560 Speaker 1: the NBA and make definitive statements about each one of 1089 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,920 Speaker 1: these players and each one of these teams, even college basketball, 1090 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,320 Speaker 1: right like you see I'm I'm I'm watching Wisconsin tonite 1091 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,719 Speaker 1: and they beat Louisville but like fifty, but Louisville didn't 1092 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,480 Speaker 1: have half their team and had to play their young kids. 1093 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,640 Speaker 1: And now that's Louisville's only lost in the year. Since 1094 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,560 Speaker 1: it's hard to tell like some of these teams in 1095 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,920 Speaker 1: the middle. Do I think the Big Ten is outstanding? Absolutely, 1096 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,880 Speaker 1: I'm not an idiot, But I also think some of 1097 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,799 Speaker 1: the other conferences didn't have has been returners, and so 1098 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,800 Speaker 1: early in the year, with less practice, less preseason games, 1099 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,960 Speaker 1: less of these tournaments, you're gonna see teams with more returners, 1100 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,440 Speaker 1: older players play better, and I do think that water 1101 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: does find its level once we get to to Worry March. 1102 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,400 Speaker 1: But it'll be interesting to see how much some of 1103 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,319 Speaker 1: those limited preseason games get held against it. Uh And 1104 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,920 Speaker 1: and once again you heard my philosophy with Matt agreed 1105 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,000 Speaker 1: with or maybe in my hypotheses for why I don't 1106 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,919 Speaker 1: think Duke or Kentucky is at the level that they've 1107 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,120 Speaker 1: been and maybe won't be at the level that they've 1108 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,359 Speaker 1: been if they continue to recruit those one and done 1109 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,080 Speaker 1: type of guys or the top level that want to 1110 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,680 Speaker 1: leave early, because the real guys that are that are 1111 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,280 Speaker 1: one and donners with a couple rare exceptions, are probably 1112 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,359 Speaker 1: going to that G League select team. All right, that's 1113 00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,319 Speaker 1: it for all ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball.