WEBVTT - Ruthie's Table 4: Lynette Yiadom-Boakye 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.760 Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:11.280 Adami's Studios. If you were in London in November twenty twenty, 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.200 then you might have been as I was lucky to 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.520 go to see Fly in League with the Night, an 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:22.360 exhibition of paintings by Lynette Yadam Boochi, artist and writer, 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.080 a retrospective of seventy of her works from two thousand 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.520 and three to the present. It closed after two weeks 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.360 due to the pandemic, but is now on again, the 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:41.360 first time the Tate has shown an exhibition twice. Lynette 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.559 is a writer, a painter and also a magical baker. 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.160 Today we're sitting here in the River Cafe to talk 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:54.280 about food, words, paint, in other words, all the ingredients 0:00:54.320 --> 0:01:01.279 to make something like Lynette beautiful, cell and ed are 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.080 you going to read s? The recipe first, and the 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:09.440 recipe of chosen is Polenta almond and lemon cake serves 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:15.679 ten four hundred and fifty grams of unsalted butter, softened 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:21.639 four hundred and fifty grams of granulated sugar, four hundred 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:28.640 and fifty grams ground almonds, two teaspoons vanilla extract, six eggs. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.560 The finely grated zest of four lemons, the juice of 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:38.200 one lemon, two hundred and twenty five grams of polenta, 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:42.679 one and a half teaspoons of baking powder. Preheat the 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:47.720 oven to one hundred and sixty degrees centigrade. Butter and 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:52.720 line a thirty centimeter round and seven point five centimeter 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:58.120 deep cake pan with parchment paper. Beat the butter and 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:04.240 sugar together until pale and light. Stir in the ground 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:09.520 almonds and vanilla. Beat in the eggs one at a time. 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:15.359 Fold in the lemon, zest and juice, the blenta, baking powder, 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:22.000 and salt. Spoon into the prepared pan. Bake for forty 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:26.040 five to fifty minutes, or until the cake is set 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:32.160 and deep brown on top. Serve with crem fresh and berries. 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:39.919 I'd like to talk about being an artist and how 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.280 you eat. I think you're here a lot, which is 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:48.200 really nice, A fair bit, yeah, but I find that 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.840 I also I generally feel better if I don't eat 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.640 out a lot, so I don't. I don't tend to 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.160 eat out as much when I'm very, very busy when 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:03.480 I'm working, because it's it's so much. I just just 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.000 physically to regulate my own kind of sleep and everything 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.040 when I'm trying to get stuff done, having a certain 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.800 routine with what you're eating and the time you're eating 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.919 at like I can't eat late. Like for example, the 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.360 last couple of months, I've been working on a deadline 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.200 and um, but there's a dead a show. I have 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.280 a show. I have a show at the Googen Him 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:30.280 and Bill Bao the end of my beautiful building. Um, difficult, 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.960 complicated building, but wonderful. I like a lot of the 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:40.960 contemporary architecture museums. They're great for architecture, not great for 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:46.160 hanging stuff on the amazing building. Yeah and yeah. So 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.080 I've been really busy with that, and I've found that 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.600 by sticking with a with a kind of a bit 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.880 of a routine in terms of meals and certain times, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.880 I'm just able to get more done and get to 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.440 bet at a decent hour. It is solitary. Yeah, you know, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:05.040 I don't know if you have other people in the 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.440 studio with you. You have a jadline now, but other 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.800 days when you have a routine that is very structured, 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.640 so you can quite try to call you up and 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.000 say Lonett, let's go and have lunch. Would you say 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:21.760 I can't, so I probably say yes, yes, but I should, 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:26.000 I should really not answer the phone, but I I 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.400 normally so three days of the week, I'll get up 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:35.240 and train with a trainer online and like about sort 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:40.240 of training normally around eight o'clock and then breakfast and 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.920 then work. Yeah. Yeah, so and do you work straight 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:49.520 through you I stopped for lunch. What mornings painting wise 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.120 or studio wise tend to be a bit slow. I 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.080 take a while to get warmed up. Do you find 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.320 the solitude of the day something that you treasure and 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:00.920 you liked or do you like nighttime? Are you ready 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.800 to see It's funny by nighttime, I'm ready to see people, 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.200 But I also feel like during the day it's solitary. 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.200 But it's I'm so busy, I'm so in it, I 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.800 don't even I kind of forget. I couldn't have anyone there. 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:18.320 So yeah, too much work now. But yeah, And you 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.599 know you're going to one of the great cities for 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.320 food when you go to Bilbao because Sebastian is right 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.640 next door. Yeah, and they're fantastic restaurants there. Yeah, great 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:33.400 culture of food. Yeah. You travel, you find out about 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.600 where you're going to look into it first and explore 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:38.640 the food. Yeah, when I sent in the cities that 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:43.359 you've really liked food, really liked, so I think. I 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.640 mean I spent three months in Marseilla, three months on 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.440 the residency many years ago. The pastries there were out 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.320 of this world. I remember, the pastries were incredible there. 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.920 That was one. So back and forth to France quite 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:01.840 a lot for many years, and and many trips over 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.839 the years to the South of Spain as well, which 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.360 I can I have funny memories of eating there because 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.760 we always ate so late. Yes, the food I almost 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.320 don't remember it because I just remember feeling like we've 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.320 eaten too late and I don't feel very well. Yeah, 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:24.440 so at midnight. Yeah nothing. I don't know how people 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:29.479 do it. Indigestion, how you work the next day. Yeah, 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.240 I've really never understood it. Um. Yes, although a lot 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.360 of trips to the to the US, which of course 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:41.799 is just so much variety. But yeah, I do love 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.839 soul food in New York as well, just like going 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:52.080 to Harlem and having soul food and these really kind 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:57.560 of very down to earth, very chill, very relaxed diners 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.799 and eateries. There a lot of your friends are so yeah, yeah, 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.640 I got yeah, artists, curators, writers, that kind of thing. 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.479 Are you having any shows in New York? Not for 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:12.280 the foreseeable. There will be a US tour that I 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:17.320 can't really say much about yet. But a couple of 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.600 years time. Yeah, I was Richard. My husband had got 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.200 a prize in the University of Virginia and it's called 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.640 the Jefferson Prize. And I was washing my hands in 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.840 the bathroom and a woman came in and she was 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.960 just awarded the prize as well as the first African 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.360 American to graduate from law school. And I think it 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.960 probably was the sixties. It was horrifically late, and I 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.160 said to her. We started talking and I said, what 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:50.080 was harder being a black woman or being a woman 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.040 to get this prize? And she said, definitely a woman. 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.560 At that time, she said there was racism of course 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.280 in the South, that it was vile and it was strong, 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.440 but the antagonist for her being a woman. And I 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.400 was wondering about in the art world, what your experience, 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.040 you know, just to deviate from from food, what was 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:12.360 your experience of being a black woman in Britain as 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.080 a painter. I mean to be completely honest, it was. 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:22.280 It was very very odd in you know, because it 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.240 wasn't that not that long ago. But when I think 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:30.440 about when I first first was out of art school 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:37.400 completely and working away and kind of oblivious to certain 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:42.120 things because I never expected a career. I never went 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.600 into this expecting any kind of success or anything, because 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.679 you don't. It's it's a crazy path. It doesn't You're 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.760 not guaranteed anything. But thinking back to then, the level 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:59.360 of invisibility I had, like the fact that I remember 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:05.640 being at events and in situations or openings where I 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.120 would be completely invisible, like nobody would talk to me, 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.600 someone might try and hand me their coat, someone might 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.600 ask me to bring them a drink. That that was 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.200 my abiding memory of say, the period from two thousand 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:26.600 and three to maybe two twelve eleven, something like that. 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:31.120 And because I wasn't I mean, nobody really knew who 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.240 I was or I didn't really have a I mean, 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.280 in some way, I couldn't. I couldn't get arrested for 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.240 the first ten years of making work, which was actually 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.679 really liberating. I don't complain about that because it was 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.720 actually a really good time to get things done and 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:46.360 I was working regardless, I didn't really care, and I 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:51.000 had enough going on for me with different projects, really 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.720 important shows and things that I was involved in during 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:58.400 that time. That kept me very motivated, and I met 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.200 a lot of wonderful people, mostly US who were and 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:06.080 still are really big supporters of mine early on. But 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.840 it was in the more general art well and certainly 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:17.160 in the UK, that invisibility, that thing of being invisible, 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.959 of people turning their backs on you at dinner, of 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:25.840 not talking to you, of not being included in anything 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.400 because not just because people saw you was an issues 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:34.760 based artist or someone who was niche in a way 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.640 that they didn't want to engage with. That at some 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.960 points was difficult, that would that hurt in a certain way, 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:46.600 But at the time I can't say I really cared, 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.959 and that hasn't changed, If anything, it's increased. I really 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.160 don't care now. And the same people who would turn 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.480 their backs on me and asked me to take their 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:02.199 coats or completely ignore me in the seven two thousand 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.880 and six and now prostrating themselves on the floor to me, 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:08.640 which I still don't care about. I still don't care, 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.800 and I think that was that was That's been my 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:19.400 abiding mantra is, particularly when things have been really were 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.720 really difficult, or reached a crisis point in some way, 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.080 I realized, actually, all of this stuff, it doesn't really matter. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.080 That the thing that I've always really cared about was 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:33.080 the work I was doing, the people that I think with, 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:37.559 the people that I respect, the people that I work 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.960 with and who have always been big supporters of mine, 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.440 and I've been big supporters of theirs, and what we've 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.480 done together and built together was That's what matters these 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:54.280 kind of rather that a scene or a career on 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.920 art World has never ever mattered, It doesn't matter. It's 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.720 just it's it's ever been a concern of mine because 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:03.800 it was never mine. It was never something I was 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.400 a part of. So I kind of to answer your 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.800 question a very long winded sort of right, I didn't, Yeah, 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.880 I don't, I don't. Yeah, does it does it? If 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.319 it doesn't matter to you, doesn't matter that it matters 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.760 to other people experiencing it. So you know Edward's story 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.960 about walking into Vogue and you know, being told to 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.440 use the side entrance to deliver or something you know 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.520 that matters, and yeah, you know, And so there's a 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:36.359 sort of there is a political aspect to the invisibility 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.520 that is wrong. It's wrong, and it could be wrong 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.080 as a woman. You know, when you know we noticed, 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.000 you know, we know that we go to parties and 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.600 a certain kind of person or a young person that's ignored, 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.360 or a quiet person that's ignored, or a black person 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.920 that's ignored, or you know, somebody wearing the wrong dress. 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.440 It and it's great to have the confidence that that 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.880 is something that your work can see through. But then 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.319 for other people, yeah, you know who are experience, who 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.000 don't have that, it's yeah, no, it's really hard. And 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:10.600 I think that's why the things that get you through 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:12.800 when you're younger, or you're not as confident, or you 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:17.560 don't have the kind of agency will be that circle 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.480 of people or that circle of support that really even 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.280 you know, if it was even if it's your family, 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.240 even if it's your your partner or you know, you 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.480 need someone to turn to who can say, yeah, I 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:35.080 just saw that. Yeah I get it. I know. And 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.600 I think because these things still happen, It's not like 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.840 it doesn't happen to me anymore. It still does, you know. Still, 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.640 it's that classic thing when people before people know who 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.200 you are, they don't respect you. I have a problem 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.640 with that. It shouldn't matter who I am. I don't 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.800 I'm not someone who goes somewhere I don't believe in. 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.079 I don't see myself any differently than I did twenty 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:57.679 years ago. So I'm not going to go in somewhere 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.160 and say do you know where I am? Because that's 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.920 ridiculous to me. But I shouldn't have to anither anyone else. 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.760 And it's it's having it's that sense. I mean a 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:08.880 friend was telling me a story yesterday of something that 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:14.040 happened to them very similar that this, you know, being 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.120 followed around a store. I mean that that kind of thing. 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.440 You shouldn't have to go in and prove anything in 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:24.040 order to be respected, and that that's the difference. It's 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.280 I think, was it Nina Simone? You said, you know, 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:41.000 love us, will leave us alone. It's it's simple. What 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.040 do you make when you make cakes? You know, wow, everything, 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.440 But my favorite thing to bake is any type of 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:52.040 sponge cake because that was really I learned to bake 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:57.280 from my mum and she was she did a catering 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.840 course in the seventies and yeah, she's nurse she's very 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.560 busy work nights, as did my dad, both nurses, but 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.480 baking for her was just such a joy. She loved 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.560 doing it, and I used to love watching. So I 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.640 would stand or sit and just watch her do it intensely, 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:14.920 and I always wanted to help, and for many years 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.080 she wouldn't let me because I'd messed it up. But 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.600 just watching and watching and watching, and those little things 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.480 that just stay with you forever, like that. Never ever 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:27.640 ever opened the oven before a certain point, Yeah, because 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.080 I could never wait. I was really I wanted to 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:31.440 see it. I want to see it rise on what 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.560 was happening. And I would always panic and open the 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.080 oven and then it would sink. And it became a 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.680 kind of running joke that my cakes would always sink 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.000 because I was too impatient, and I'd always turn the 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.040 oven up too high. Yeah. Yeah, but a sponge is 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.600 really hard to make. Yeah, there's science, it's one of 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.960 the easiest, you know, recipes, but actually to make a 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.760 good sponge, as a town would your mother was she 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.400 was born in Ghana. She was born in Ghana. Yeah. Yeah, 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.200 she like, oh, she's amazing, she's wonderful, she does it. 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.200 She's she's my my hero. Did she come as a 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.040 young child here? No? No, no, she came in her twenties, 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.000 as did my dad. Well, my dad was a bit older, 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.640 but they came in the nineteen sixty They met and 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.960 Gharana married and Garner moved here to work as nurses 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.680 settled down and we all came along in the seventies. 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.120 There's three of us. I have two older brothers. So 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.400 going back to the early days, what was it like 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:28.520 growing up in your household if your parents were both 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.480 nurses and they were working. Ye? Did they work nights 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.800 and days or ships or did you nights? Yeah? So 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.040 there was always one of them home. Would you have 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.080 a family? Yeah? All around the table one thing I 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:45.680 mean we did. We did at the weekends more I guess, 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:47.040 and when they were both home than we'd all be 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.640 around the table. But weekends, I remember, breakfasts on the 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:56.600 Sunday were real everyone together. Oh omelets. My dad made 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:58.760 a very good omelet, a kind of everything, but the 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.960 kitchen sink over which was very good, very very good. 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.800 He used to put baked beans into the open instress, 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:10.639 which was bonkers, but yeah, it's really good. Would they 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.040 have cooked in Ghana? Do you think or did they really? 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.520 You know they both? I think they both always cooked 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.480 my dad. I mean we we we ate a lot 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.520 of gunny and food when I was a kid, like 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.280 foo food which I can't eat now I don't. I 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.480 don't like it anymore. I think the traditional way it's 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.840 made in Ghanna is with pounded Um. I'm going to 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:35.360 get this wrong. Cassava and plantain together and it's it's 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.560 pounded until it becomes like a big sort of Doughey 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.520 mass and you have it with with stew or soup 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:47.680 with meat and fish. Um, it's very heavy. And did 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:49.480 you grow up with other friends who were gunny and 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.679 it was there a community? Yeah? I mean we had 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.959 all of our my parents had a large sort of 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.600 network circle of friends. And where where was this in London? 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:05.760 South South? I remembered spending a lot of time in markets, supermarkets, shops. 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.760 My my dad used to go and buy his meat 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:16.760 like from the Hellal butchers, like because he was Muslim, 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.040 so he would always we always ate Hellal meat. And 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:25.680 one of my abiding memories was in Baalom before it gentrified, 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.320 before it became posh, when Balam was still a market 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:34.639 surrounded by some really odd shops here and there. Um, 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.440 I love I love Old Ballom. Old Ballam was quite magical, 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:41.199 but mostly because there was this my dad's favorite butcher 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:46.439 was in Ballom, and he would go in and inspect 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.720 all of the goats heads, like for the goat's head 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.720 souperies to make, and so each he'd be there, the 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.120 scull be picking up all these goats heads and it's 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.440 like my dad was inspecting the teeth. He's just looking 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:00.600 at the faces, looking at the eye. I just it 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.760 was so bonkers, but it became so normal. I mean, 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.600 I just were going in and inspecting goats heads with 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.359 my dad. Was a main memory of shopping with my dad. 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:14.119 And then we go to the market that was alongside 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:19.120 that butcher's where where they had like the yams, the plantains, everything, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.560 And there was a little guinny and food shop there 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:26.760 as well. I think it's long gone now. That sold 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:32.760 all of the pepper sauce and the dubiously acquired dried 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:37.080 fish that we were entirely short was legal. Yeah, it's 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.560 very good though, it's delicious, but I'm not sure. I mean, 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.520 it used to be very easy to bring a lot 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.679 of things in from Ghana like people I have a 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.080 you know, things like snails and you know, the dried 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.120 fish and everything, all these things that you can't really 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.480 get here. I think it's a lot harder. You know, 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.359 there's there's dogs at the airport and stuff to stop 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:04.320 your briefings. Really but yeah, but did you get to Yeah, yeah, 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:06.200 we went back a few times when I was when 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:08.919 I was young, and it was yeah. I mean the 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:13.600 markets there are extraordinary. I mean it's really um a 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:18.720 lot of action, possibly too much action for me, but yeah, 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.040 because my auntie actually worked and worked at one of 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.560 the markets, and I remember going to visit her there 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.800 and just yeah, it was extraordinary, really extraordinary. A lot 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.040 of noise, a lot of chaos. Well you only cakes 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.560 that you only made, were you allowed? When I was younger, 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.640 only cakes? Really, I don't think anyone trusted my cooking. 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:43.159 My my my dad was very particular. He's he passed 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.760 away twenty sixteen, but he was very particular about what 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.400 he would and wouldn't eat. So he could never get 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:52.399 his head around white sauce. And I think this is 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.639 kind of a guinny and male thing. White sauce is 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:00.200 somehow not correct to him. So anything. If I put 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:01.600 anything in front of him that had like a white 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.840 sorce I'd seem to remember once trying to give him 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:07.840 I'd made a fish pie or something, and my mom 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:09.840 liked my fish pie. She could eat my fish pie. 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.399 My dad just couldn't even look at something with a 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:19.440 white It had to be red or brown. So yeah, 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:21.680 but I did. I as I got older, I did 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.800 used to do things. I'd come and deer the roast, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.399 like we'd have like roast lamb or roast chicken, and 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:31.960 then if it burned, it was my fault. So I 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.600 used to like watch it religiously, and you know, take 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.560 it out and turn it and stuff. Did you paint 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:39.720 as a as a teenager? What did you know that? 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.920 I always made things. I always did things with my hands. 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:48.560 I always was always trying to make something, usually out 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.560 of cardboard or I mean drawing pictures. I did a 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:56.440 lot of drawing as a teenager. I started painting when 0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:02.000 I was on my foundation course encouraged. They did not 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.359 encourage it. I mean they could see what I was into. 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.800 I think my dad was just baffled by the whole thing. 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:11.159 My mom was far more tolerant in a way. She 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.200 used to sit for me a lot. I wish you 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:16.280 could find those paintings. Actually, I don't know. That must 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:19.120 be buried in my parents' house somewhere. I did lots 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:22.439 of paintings of my mum, Drawings of my mum um 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:26.200 pretty accurate, actually, I think. I think at that point 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:28.240 they thought maybe there was something in it, you know, 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:35.400 because I could get a likeness, and school was like, um, yeah, yeah, 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:38.840 there was a I remember my high school, my secondary 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:43.000 school had a very very good art and drama department. 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:45.919 They had converted a whole building into just art drama, 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:48.680 which I remember thinking it was amazing. It was brand 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.560 new at the time, and it was the early late eighties, 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:53.919 early nineties, but it was brand new and that was 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.320 kind of unheard of around there. And so you went 0:22:56.359 --> 0:23:00.280 to Falmouth. I went to Falmouth and then to the 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:05.400 Royal Academy, which was what was the difference was Foalnmouth 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:10.359 was Foalnmouth was very very calm. It's quite far away, 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.240 very far, very calm. I loved it. I had a 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:17.520 really good time there. It's amazing to be by the 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:21.600 water to study so in the somewhere that was just 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:25.320 so different to anywhere I'd ever been, so I was 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.200 born and raised in London, so it was I didn't 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:30.720 want to go anywhere that was a city because I 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:33.280 felt like I was in the city. You know, this 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:37.800 is London was so important to me. Yeah, it's where 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:41.440 it's kind of the end of the country in Cornwall, 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.359 which is I think the most. They do say that 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:48.400 it has more weather than anywhere else in the country. 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:54.320 They have percentage wise, more more of everything, more more weather, 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:56.600 they used to say that, but more weather in Cornwall 0:23:56.640 --> 0:24:00.159 than anywhere else in the country. And the climb it 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:02.960 was quite insane, like it would rain, it could rain 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:06.520 non stop for weeks on end, months on end, and 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:09.399 then it could be really tropical as well. It was 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.760 like the most tropical point. There were palm trees, sandy beaches. 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.359 It really does, or at least it did back then, 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.160 feel like paradise. It was still quite sort of cut 0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:20.480 off in the way that it felt because we didn't 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:24.040 have mobile phones and stuff yet there wasn't. I mean 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:25.920 a couple of people had one, but no one else did. 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:30.280 I'd been going to pay phones and stuff to make calls, 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:36.399 which seems odd now with one phone in the house. Yeah, 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:39.080 and it just had that nice feeling of being at 0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:41.600 the end of the of the earth. To me, it 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:43.640 felt like I was in the middle of nowhere, which 0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:49.280 was so liberating. With the tradition of painters, you know, yes, yeah, 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:53.440 and Nicholson, yeah, Yeatrick, Karen and York. Yeah, it was 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:57.359