Speaker 1: It's a sad thing to say, but that's classic Andrew Cuomo. Um.
Speaker 1: A lot of people in New York state had received
Speaker 1: those phone calls. Uh, you know, the bullying is nothing new. UM,
Speaker 1: I believe Ron Kim, And it's very very sad. No
Speaker 1: public servant, no person who's telling the truth, should be
Speaker 1: treated that way. So this guy Ron Kim in New York,
Speaker 1: a Democrat who had come forward and you know, and
Speaker 1: and criticized the Andrew Cuomo's office for clearly lying about
Speaker 1: how many people they killed with their bad policy, says
Speaker 1: that Cuomo called him up and threatened to ruin him,
Speaker 1: and so he went, you know, on the record with
Speaker 1: that to the press. Cuomo came out and said I
Speaker 1: never said anything the same. And then a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of politicians came out yesterday, including that guy there. You
Speaker 1: just heard the freaking mayor of New York, build A Blasio, saying, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've all been on the end of that kind of
Speaker 1: bullying from Andrew Cuomo. I know I have, So I
Speaker 1: absolutely believe um. Mr Kim to me, I found that
Speaker 1: just stunning. So this guy and his family was able
Speaker 1: to run rough shot over New York for all these
Speaker 1: years treating people like this and keep it a secret
Speaker 1: moral less? How does it Scott been just a little
Speaker 1: bit of the feel of the mob? How does how
Speaker 1: do you? How does that stay secret all these years?
Speaker 1: Let's talk to Lan hit Chen. David and Diane Stephy,
Speaker 1: fellow in American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Institution,
Speaker 1: hosted the fabulous podcast Crossing Lines with Lan hit Chen.
Speaker 1: He joined us, now here are you, sir? I'm doing well,
Speaker 1: Good morning, gentlemen. I just wonder, in general the way
Speaker 1: politics works, what's the leverage the Cuomo family had over
Speaker 1: people to where they could treat people that way and
Speaker 1: have such enemies but still succeed. How does that even work? Well?
Speaker 1: You know, there's all saying power corrupts, and absolute power
Speaker 1: corrupts absolutely, and I think when you have a regime
Speaker 1: that's been a big part of state politics and a
Speaker 1: big part particularly the Democratic Party machinery. You know that
Speaker 1: the interesting part of this is that Cuomo is not
Speaker 1: beating up on Republicans, right, I mean, he does, he
Speaker 1: doesn't fair share that, but he's beating up on people
Speaker 1: in his own party, and he uses the leverage that
Speaker 1: he and his family have. He uses the fact that
Speaker 1: they have a tremendous amount of influence and state politics.
Speaker 1: And this goes to the problem with dynastic politics in
Speaker 1: our country, these dynasties that think they're entitled to stay
Speaker 1: in power. And it goes beyond that. It goes from
Speaker 1: dynastic power to the problem with one party rule when
Speaker 1: you have one party that's been in charge of a
Speaker 1: state for as long as Democrats have been in charge
Speaker 1: of New York. And by the way, it's not just
Speaker 1: a New York thing, it's an Illinois problem. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a California problem. When you have one party that's
Speaker 1: been in charge for as long as it has this
Speaker 1: is what you get. You get bullies, you get thugs,
Speaker 1: you get people like Andrew Cuomo. Andrew Cuomo's dad, Mario Cuomo,
Speaker 1: was governor, mayor governor back. Yeah, and and of course
Speaker 1: you know Cuomo's brothers on CNN every night. So it's
Speaker 1: it's not just politics, it's the politics media industrial complex
Speaker 1: in the state of New York that has perfected that
Speaker 1: has continued to to allow uh Andrew Cuomo to perpetrate
Speaker 1: the things he's been perpetrating. And you know the fact
Speaker 1: that these stories are just coming to light now. Really,
Speaker 1: no one should be surprised at his behavior. Well, I
Speaker 1: appreciate Jack being repulsed by that sort of politics, because
Speaker 1: it is repulsive. But as a guy who grew up
Speaker 1: right next to Mayor Daly's Chicago, the idea of brutal
Speaker 1: bullying and machine politics is pretty familiar. Hey, I understand
Speaker 1: there there are a lot of factions within New York politics.
Speaker 1: I'm not really hip to New York state of politics. Long,
Speaker 1: he do you know much about that? Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: follow it as closely, but I've heard that much from
Speaker 1: from from folks who I know out there to follow it.
Speaker 1: There's a you know, there's a Cuomo line. And and
Speaker 1: you'll remember, actually back in when Bill Clinton ran for president,
Speaker 1: a lot of people thought Cuomo was going to be
Speaker 1: the nominee of the Democratic Party that year, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be this you know, Arkansas, no name
Speaker 1: governor who nobody had ever heard of before. And it
Speaker 1: turns out, I mean, some of the stories go that
Speaker 1: Cuomo was brought down by some elements of the Democratic
Speaker 1: machine in his own state because there were elements of
Speaker 1: Cuomo who who weren't part of that Cuomo line who
Speaker 1: didn't like him and decided that they wanted to help
Speaker 1: take him out. So yeah, it gets pretty nasty out there.
Speaker 1: But you know, that's the thing these one party politics
Speaker 1: in states like New York in California. It can get
Speaker 1: pretty nasty within the Democratic Party in these states. That's interesting. Well,
Speaker 1: it's got to be about faction and personality because it's
Speaker 1: not about policy generally speaking, if you have one party rule.
Speaker 1: And obviously, and obviously they think are like de Blasio
Speaker 1: and others think Governor Cuomo has damaged enough that they
Speaker 1: can be honest. All of a sudden, the Blasio saying, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been on the other end of those phone calls
Speaker 1: many times. Everybody has well, and bear in mind, the
Speaker 1: Blasio and Cuomo hate each other. They they have had
Speaker 1: a difficult relationship for many years, and the Blasio and
Speaker 1: Cuomo have had a number of really awkward news conferences
Speaker 1: where they basically set each other lias sit next to
Speaker 1: each other like, you know, too passive aggressive, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: former spouses, and it's it's very, very, very awkward interaction
Speaker 1: between the two of them. A Lani channel, the Hoover
Speaker 1: Institution is on the line. Meanwhile, on the other coast
Speaker 1: you have lunkhead governor of California, Gavin Newsom, who it's
Speaker 1: looking like is going to be recalled. What do you
Speaker 1: make of that? Well, people are are upset with him,
Speaker 1: and you know, the funniest thing that I hear is
Speaker 1: when Newsom and his defenders argue that this is some
Speaker 1: Republican plot something. I know a lot of people who
Speaker 1: live in in my part of California is very progressive
Speaker 1: part of California otherwise, are very supportive of Democratic politicians
Speaker 1: and democratic politics who are just fed up with Gavin
Speaker 1: Newsom because of his incompetence. And it has to do
Speaker 1: with not being able to get done the basic blocking
Speaker 1: and tackling, you know, things like can you run a
Speaker 1: system that gets people who need unemployment compensation that compensation
Speaker 1: without giving money to a bunch of crooks? You know,
Speaker 1: can you actually administer a vaccine program that's not worse
Speaker 1: than the vaccine program that exists in you know, at
Speaker 1: least half of the other shape and you get the
Speaker 1: schools open, you know, instead of instead of bowing continuously
Speaker 1: to pressure from special interests, can you actually do what
Speaker 1: it takes you know, to grow up, actually lead and
Speaker 1: get the schools open so we can stop denying a
Speaker 1: generation of kids the education that they need and deserve.
Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff that really picks people off.
Speaker 1: And it's not a Republican thing. It's not a Republican
Speaker 1: thing at all. I think his incompetent stems from the
Speaker 1: fact that he's incompetent. Is that really what happens? Well, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the Eastern media elite just say he was damaged by
Speaker 1: dining at the French laundry during his own show down. Well,
Speaker 1: that absolutely was kind of a pivotal moment. But the
Speaker 1: the administration has done enough right for those of you
Speaker 1: who are listening in the rest of the country, the
Speaker 1: the Newsome administration has fumbled everything. Their list of victories
Speaker 1: is empty. They're still waiting for number one. Their dryer
Speaker 1: race board has the number one on it, nothing else.
Speaker 1: I was wondering, since since you've worked with you know,
Speaker 1: pretty successful candidates, you know, working on Marco Rubio's campaign
Speaker 1: and Ramy's campaign and stuff like that, how we identify
Speaker 1: these these these politicians early on and think that guy
Speaker 1: could be presidents someday and then we're so wrong. Like
Speaker 1: like Rick Perry was so not ready for the national stage,
Speaker 1: and Gavin Newsom was so not ready for the state stage,
Speaker 1: let alone the national stage. What goes on there with
Speaker 1: this the not recognizing what's underneath, the veneer of of
Speaker 1: looking presidential. Well, I don't think Gavin Newson was ready
Speaker 1: to be on the stage for a fourth grade class play,
Speaker 1: being on the stage to be considered a presid central candidate.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you're right. What happens is media hype develops.
Speaker 1: You know, you you've got a guy who's something that Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean people people think, oh, here's a guy who's
Speaker 1: reasonably good looking, he can string together a sentence and
Speaker 1: a coherent saw it every once in a while. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: let's make this guy president. And by the way, you know,
Speaker 1: Newsom has a tremendous amount of personal wealth, and I
Speaker 1: think that contributes to the conversation as well. Anytime you've
Speaker 1: got someone who gets into politics, who's reasonably successful at
Speaker 1: some level and also has a lot of cash, they think, oh,
Speaker 1: here's someone who could be president. And and really what
Speaker 1: it goes to is we need to do a much
Speaker 1: better job of evaluating what our leaders are and are
Speaker 1: not doing if if, if, if Newsom had not been
Speaker 1: confronted with crisis, he could have skated right through and
Speaker 1: who knows, he may have been a leading candidate for
Speaker 1: the president. What what what crisis does is it forces
Speaker 1: us to test our leaders, and it forces us to
Speaker 1: see who can lead and who can't. And Newsom has
Speaker 1: failed miserably at that task. And he's not the only one,
Speaker 1: by the way, Andrew Cuomo, We've talked about a few
Speaker 1: of the other governors who've done a horrible job. Uh.
Speaker 1: We really are able to see those who succeed and
Speaker 1: those who fail in a very real way. And it's
Speaker 1: an awful thing because people have suffered through this crisis.
Speaker 1: But it does allow us to see who who can
Speaker 1: lead and who can't. And I think that's a very
Speaker 1: very important part of this whole episode. We need to
Speaker 1: take from it. Well, now I'm gonna have to fist
Speaker 1: fight Jack during the commercials for bringing this up, but
Speaker 1: I'm ready to do it. I've been reading about Rhonda
Speaker 1: Santis in Florida. He's done a really good job speaking
Speaker 1: of governors, and people are starting to buzz about him.
Speaker 1: In any early take. You know him, deal know his
Speaker 1: act is is he one of those golden boys who
Speaker 1: is about to turn rusty or what? Do you think?
Speaker 1: I don't know him. Well, I've followed what he's done
Speaker 1: in Florida and and the answer is he's he's tried
Speaker 1: to follow what the scientists told him, but also his
Speaker 1: his instincts about what the state needs, what the state's
Speaker 1: kids needs, and what the state's businesses need. And they've
Speaker 1: tried to balance between, you know, trying being safe, keeping
Speaker 1: people safe, but also trying to get Florida reopened. And
Speaker 1: I think by and large he's done a pretty good job.
Speaker 1: You know, there's been some hiccups, but you know, that's
Speaker 1: one of those things where I'm sure Governor Desantus would say,
Speaker 1: look look at my record. Look at my record to
Speaker 1: determine if I'm ready to lead or not. And that's
Speaker 1: something I wish more politicians would say, is take a
Speaker 1: look at my record, not just the good parts, but
Speaker 1: but all of it, and make a decision based on
Speaker 1: everything I've done, do you think I'm worthy of leading
Speaker 1: or not? And you know what, not everything is gonna
Speaker 1: be good. But I'll bet you if you look at
Speaker 1: Ron de santiss record and you compare it to what
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom r Andrew Cuomo have done. Rohn de Santus
Speaker 1: comes out pretty favorably, you know, so I'll take I'll
Speaker 1: take that bet any day of the week. It's faint praise,
Speaker 1: but that might be the appropriate phrases we look for
Speaker 1: future leaders. Lani Chen David and Diane Stephie fellow in
Speaker 1: American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Institution, host of
Speaker 1: the podcast Crossing Lines with Lanchlan. He thanks a Milian,
Speaker 1: Always great to talk, great to do with you guys.
Speaker 1: Thank ye. I'm glad I brought any of that stuff
Speaker 1: up that there's some really interesting takes on that. Oh yeah, Lon,
Speaker 1: He's always just a terrific Are we maturing as a
Speaker 1: society to a point where maybe we can look past
Speaker 1: the well they look good on TV and have a
Speaker 1: clever line, So maybe they should be the most powerful
Speaker 1: person in the world based on that. Avery voters, Uh
Speaker 1: maybe a two thirds WI not a half whis He's
Speaker 1: absolutely right if there hadn't been a crisis, everything cruises
Speaker 1: along economies decent blah blah blah. Normal stories are in
Speaker 1: the news. Gavin easily cruises to top tier discussion among
Speaker 1: Democratic candidates, right, just based on BET's hole like adoration
Speaker 1: from the media. Didn't have to do anything, just just
Speaker 1: stood there and looked pretty or creepy, depending on who
Speaker 1: he has. And now he's going to get recalled as
Speaker 1: governor and his political career is over. Yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 1: know what it would be interesting, Well, it will be
Speaker 1: interesting to follow is California is so utterly corrupt and
Speaker 1: ungovernable and mobbed up in one party and the rest
Speaker 1: of it. I don't know if if God Almighty himself
Speaker 1: could be the successful governor of California, it may just
Speaker 1: be too big and messy and corrupt. I'm I'm still amazed.
Speaker 1: I know you grew up with corrupt politics, so you're
Speaker 1: you're not surprised by it. But that Andrew Cuomo could,
Speaker 1: in the modern era where people leak phone calls and
Speaker 1: texts and all kinds of stuff like that, still call
Speaker 1: up people and threaten them, just flat out threatened them
Speaker 1: and get away with it. I will lend your career.
Speaker 1: That's wild. Yeah, it's time's up to good. Thank God.
Speaker 1: In the whole Cuomo family, it would sound like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't teach you this as a kid, but the
Speaker 1: government is every bit as much forget about it. It
Speaker 1: is as it is, and I'm only Bill. You know,
Speaker 1: it's both forget about it.