WEBVTT - Black Music Month QLS Classic: Jimmy Jam Part 2 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:04.840 Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:10.320 was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey, what's up y'all? 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:14.360 This is Questlove And as you've noticed throughout June, we 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:19.840 are celebrating Black Music Month by releasing an episode every day, 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.480 So every day you're either going to hear a specially 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:28.200 pick QLs classic. Now we're part one, Part two, and 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:34.160 part three of my all time favorite QLs episode. This 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:41.760 is the legendary Jimmy Jam. What's up, y'all? This is 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.519 Questlove and this is QLs Classic. And this is the 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.879 second of our three part series with producer Jimmy Jam. 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.360 Last episode we explored his life in Minnesota and enjoining 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.600 the Group of Time and getting fired by Prince. And 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.480 now this episode we talk about working with artists like Charelle, 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:02.640 Alexander O'Neil, An Austin, New Edition, the SOS Band, the 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:07.160 Human Lead, and also Janet Jackson, all Top ten artists. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.040 We also discussed the creative process in songwriting and producing 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:12.560 and becoming businessman. 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.640 This is a really, really great episode. I hope you enjoyed. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:23.440 All Right, let's go, so obviously, you guys go to 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.039 get Alex back but how did Charelle? 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.640 We do? So yeah, so actually, yeah, so Charrell's the 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.920 next one. So Charrelle. You know, after sost band jumped off, 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.959 Clarence had signed Charrell. She was from Detroit. He said, 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.160 I signed this girl from Detroit. So she's kind of 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.240 young and raw, but I think you guys can do 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.120 something with or whatever whatever. I remember we met her 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.480 and we hung out with her, loved her, you know, 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.160 and I remember it was a reason we moved back. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.920 Charrel was the reason we moved back to Minneapolis. We 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.000 were working in a studio. I don't remember what studio was, 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.120 but she had always done backup singing, not a lot 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.880 of lead singing, and it was just a very nervous thing. 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:01.600 We're always watching the clock, I can, you know, conckness 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.400 and of the of the budget, and it was just 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:06.320 this kind of pressure thing. So we knew these guys 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.040 in Minneapolis had a studio down their basement, and we said, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.040 maybe we'll go back to Minneapolis and record. It'll be 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.760 like a less pressure and whatever whatever whatever. And I 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:17.919 remember the very first day we walked in the studio. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:19.519 It was called Creation Audio and it was down the 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.600 basement of a little house. First song we did was 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:28.160 didn't mean to turn you on? Wow, And when that happened, 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.280 we were like, Terry just said, we need to just 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.280 move back to Minneapolis, because we can make music anywhere, 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.800 but we should just do it this kind of environment 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.880 where we can just create and not worry about the 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.560 high pressure, you know, the high prices of l a you. 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.119 Recorded in that basement. Yeah, okay, now I'm gonna start 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:47.120 with the creative process. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:52.280 Okay, how does Jimmy jam on that synthesizer by the way, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:57.040 on this various yeah that is that's didn't mean to 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:57.440 turn you on? 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:03.120 How does Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis construct a song? 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:07.760 Who does the lyrics, who does. 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.320 The There's a lot of different ways that it happened. 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.919 Okay, So let's take I didn't mean because what I 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:17.160 really want to get into is that's the point. That's 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:21.760 the song that I felt that you really started coming 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.800 on your own as a drum programmer, especially assuming that 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:27.800 did you guys do your own remix edits and all 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:35.400 that stuff? Yes, okay, which also qlis listeners continues the 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:41.280 theory that all really masterful, great producers, awesome DJs. So 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.000 this is the doctor dre theory all over again? So, 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:46.920 because you're doing a lot of intricate stuff there, and 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.760 I was kind of saving this question for the Control album. 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:56.040 But who's teaching you? I mean, who's teaching you these 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:02.000 patches and these programming stuff? I mean I still barely 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.960 get past page three on the Drummer's Manual of any 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:09.160 drum machine I ever get, and there's no pro tols 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.640 and stuff. Are you editing and cutting tape? Or like, 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.200 what are you? How are you doing this stuff? 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.680 Well, a little bit of everything. So didn't mean to 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.359 turn you on though, is real simple. So the DMX, 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:21.840 that's a DMX drum machine, Yes he was, And so 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.000 I learned the DMX drum machine really from Leon Silvers. 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.520 He had one. He was He was one of the 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.400 people that just there was always a drum machine laying 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.599 around the studio. And he met a certain point he 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.359 made a transition where he would cut things with the 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:39.520 drum machine. But then the drummer from Lakeside and I 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.719 can't remember his name, was amazing. He would come back 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.720 in and play real drums because Leon still liked the 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.279 idea of real drums. But he had a metronome and 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.360 he could just lock right in. Not all drummers could 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.159 do that, could play with a drum machine, but he could. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.440 But he always had one around. So I just would 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:01.280 always mess around with it. And so, uh, same thing 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.320 with the lin drum. Prince always had a line drummer around, 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.600 So I just would always mess My whole thing was 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.559 I would just pick up stuff and just start messing 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.200 around with it. And I think because I was a drummer, 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.279 it all just made sense to me. But I never 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.480 but and it's funny, you said you don't get past 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.400 uh page three. I never picked a manual up. I've 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.640 never read a drum machine manual in my life. Man bragged. 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.240 I'm not bragging. I just I just it doesn't make sense. 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:26.839 It's just kind of trial and errors. Just you just 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.599 kind of mess around and until you come up with 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.760 stuff that did make sense to me. 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.440 Well, I'm asking because like even like in the bridge 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.520 of that song, like these these roles that you're programming, yeah, 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:46.440 and the various handclaps yeah yeah, the s billets and 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.800 all that stuff towards the end, I'm assuming that that 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.280 stuff has to be pre programmed, as in your thinking, 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.599 in your head. Okay, four bars from the beginning or 0:05:54.600 --> 0:06:00.279 even the beginning before this song starts again? And is 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.440 this without prote in the age of pro tools, now, 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.240 I could just punch anything in yes, one, and then 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.159 copy and paste and do whatever I please. But you 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:13.640 didn't have it then, So are you sitting there with 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:15.719 the map of the format of the song? 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:20.560 No? No, My thing was always I would always put 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.440 the drum beat down. That would always be the first thing. 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:27.479 And I knew that sometimes there was a format, like 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.520 I knew on that particular song. I kind of knew 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:36.560 what the format was in my mind. So but I 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.640 wouldn't ever program a song from start to finish on 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.200 the drum machine. I would physically put in a pattern 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.919 like the beginning of that song, which is just a handclaps. 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.880 I think that would be one pattern. Then i'd put 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:54.120 the next pattern in, which was the main you know, 0:06:54.160 --> 0:07:01.279 whatever that was. Then the change was the booduct That 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.680 would be another thing. So turn the tape on, press play, 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.520 go to my thing. Then as the song's playing, I'm 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:11.520 thinking in my head, okay, now it sounds like it's 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.440 change here, and I just go to the change, and 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.080 then I go back to the main part and I 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.600 go to the change. Now. Most of the time it 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.120 worked pretty good because I kind of simpty, no, not 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:28.560 locked a simpty at all. I used to drive people. No, 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.040 I used to drive people crazy with that because me crazy, 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:34.720 because because engineers would get get it. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.440 I'm looking at Steve right now, like see I'm not alone, Steve. 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.000 Now. We'd send stuff out to get remixed, and they'd 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:42.680 always say, what's the simpty start time? And we go, 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.400 we don't know. You didn't lock the simpty, were just 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.160 just playing. You turned the tape on and you play, 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.800 and that that was the way we always did it 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:52.640 didn't mean to turn you out. Was interesting because that 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:58.480 song was very heavily influenced by the system. I can 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.120 see that the systems. The system did a lot of 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.000 that and that kind of stuff. The difference was they 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.680 hooked everything together so that it was sequenced, and I 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.360 didn't do that because I didn't know how to do that. 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.240 So I never sequenced. There was never a sequenced keyboard, 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:12.760 not even. 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.520 If you synthesize it work in your base work. No, 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.560 they're doing that by hand, by hand. It sounds like 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.920 eight minutes. Yeah, so song like innocent yo, Yeah, the 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.360 whole Innocent suite twelve minutes long. 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:28.880 Yeah, Dallas twelve minutes playing for twelve minutes. And also 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.400 and that's and that's an interesting and and and Innocent 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.600 is an interesting one too, because that's one where we 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.719 put the drum part down first and then we had 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:39.400 to figure out what we were going to put on 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:43.640 top of it. You know, that made sense, but that 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.839 I got from Prince, because Prince would do that. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.760 Okay, can you answer a question for me, even though 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.280 I don't know if you were, were you ever physically 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:59.439 there for time recordings no other than they or anything? 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:01.720 Yeah? Yeah, yeah, because that's the thing. 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.280 Like a song like the Walk, which is nine minutes, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:10.280 how does he know and bar one seventy six? Mayris 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.280 we mother like that part? Like does he map out 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:17.480 even the dialogue? And no, you put the groove down. 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.120 So like literally on the Walk, it would basically be 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:27.000 him on the bass and Morris on the drums, and 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.920 they would just play for nine minutes. And so Prince 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:32.920 would kind of in his mind think, well, this might 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.520 be a verse, this might be a chorus, whatever, this 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.839 might be just a jam session whatever. Then there'll be 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:39.800 you listen to it. 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.839 Back, you put the chords over the top of it, 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.480 and then the little horn stabs and stuff you do 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.760 based on the breaks and some of that other stuff. 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.840 Like he knew, he didn't know what everything was gonna be. 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.000 You just kind of create it as it's going along 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.880 and let the drums and the bass line dictate what 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:58.960 you then put on top of it. So it's very 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.880 spot that's whether it's so spontaneous, because it literally was spontaneous. 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:04.280 Now you could go back and do it like if 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.560 you like, if there's a lick that Morris would do 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.680 a ko on the drums and then you'd hear it 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:13.679 and you'd go, oh, let's put a horn line on it. 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.360 Clin okay, okay, right. 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:18.520 But you just kind of took each piece of the 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.920 song until it was filled, until it was a full song. 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.320 So we kind of took See that's the thing, if 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:28.240 you think about it. We took a lot of lessons 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.800 from what Leon did, what Leon Silvers did, We took 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.440 a lot of lessons from what Prince did, and then 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.320 we took a lot of lessons from just listening to 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.640 records that were out and things that we liked and 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.320 just applied them to the way we record, you know, 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.680 but we had great teachers. I mean, we had great teachers. 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.080 There were great records. Not to mention all the records 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.760 growing up we listened to, you know, so you know 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.320 that to me is kind of the thing and so 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.760 for us. But I couldn't sequence. And that's the thing. 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:58.600 I never opened up a manual, so I didn't know. 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.320 I had a DM drum machine in ob eight. Okay, 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.079 they're supposed to talk to each other through the d SX, 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.120 which was the right segmen, we have a d s X. 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.720 Has never been never. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:10.240 Been touched because I know how to hook it. 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:11.400 I don't know. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.320 I never knew how to hook it up. I I 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.200 and to that and tell you the only reason I 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.640 ever even started sequencing at all was one I had 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.280 a drum programmer, uh uh, or just a programmer in 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:28.760 general named Alex Richberg was from New York originally. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.480 And wait, how do you know he. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.040 Yeah, yeah, And he was the one that got me 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.120 into well he was he was the one that really 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.440 started putting. We were talking earlier before we started the interview. 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.840 We were talking about how hip hop influenced R and B. 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:53.080 But he was a true hip hop head. That was 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.000 incorporated into our camp, which really he had the whole 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.320 kind of hip hop sensibility from the MPC. It's he 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.880 introduced me to the n PC drum machine and all 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:05.720 those things and the idea of that type of sampling 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.520 because I never sampled in a drum machine. I usually 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.640 just use like a little AMS sample or something like that. 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.160 So he was the one that really opened my mind 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:16.160 up to the incorporating hip hop into you know art 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:18.400 the way we did R and B records, particularly with Janet, 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.440 but with a lot of other you know acts too. 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.000 So he was a really important part. But up until 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.360 I met him, and that was, like you said, velvet 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.959 rop era so ninety seven, I guess or something like that, 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.040 I never And even after that, I remember he would 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.200 hook stuff up so it would be like ready for 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.520 a sequence, like what was the one that we did? Oh, 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.080 god till it's gone, God till it's gone. He hooked, 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.760 He hooked everything up together, and he said, make a record, 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:48.000 and don't do it in this box, don't do it 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.320 outside of the thing. And the reason the record sounds 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:55.040 the way it sounds is because I did the simplest 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.600 thing I could possibly do, which was called blunt blunt, 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:03.120 blunt bloom, right, because that's all I knew how to do. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.520 And it was like okay, and I said, okay, here, 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.120 I got some men, Now what do we do now? 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.720 And it's like, okay, now we'll we'll make the song. Yeah, 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:11.600 but you know what I'm saying. But that's why that 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.040 turned out like that. And literally, when that song was done, 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:15.920 I unplugged all that stuff and said, I'm not making 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:16.800 records like that no more. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:17.280 I couldn't. 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.520 I couldn't do it. You got a hit out of it, 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:21.439 got a hit out of it, and and and and 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.240 the only thing after that, and and and when I 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.640 discovered logic. See when when garage band came out, I thought, oh, 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.200 this is cute. But then when somebody said, oh logic, 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.199 it's like do you know how to we're garage band? Yeah, 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.880 but yeah, that's when I said, oh, wait, okay, I 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.280 can do this. This is this makes sense to me 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.760 because he always used logic back in the day when 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.480 it was hard to use. So I said, oh, I 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.160 can figure this out. I know the theory of this. 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.680 But no, all of those records were all just played 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.600 by hand. Like I remember what was one we did. 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.000 Oh uh, I just heard it the other day. Tell 0:13:55.000 --> 0:14:02.360 me Houston used to hotels. Yeah, but that's all right, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:07.319 that's by hand, by hand, whole record. Just be good 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:07.560 to me. 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:11.360 That's not everything. 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.200 No no, no, no, that's all played, every all of 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.280 that stuff. Borrow. 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.360 That's a long that's long to be. 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.480 Yeah, but I had but I had great chops then 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:26.120 because that stuff compared to what Prince had us going 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.800 through and rehearsal. See, Prince prepared me for all that stuff. 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.000 You know, Prince would have me uh like seven seven 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:34.680 seven that's famous. Well, I don't know if that's a 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.440 famous story. I told it to a bunch of people though. 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.400 You know, we're doing seven seven seven ninety three eleven 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:46.080 and my part was just doubling Terry's bassline, uh, with 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.480 this kind of ob eight sound right, and then I 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.080 do like a little string part and that was it. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:51.400 Right. 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.240 So I remember we were rehearsing a song and Prince goes, Jimmy, jam, 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:56.480 what are you doing with your left hand? And I 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.640 said nothing, Prince, I was doing the baseline. He said, 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.560 he said you should done. He says, do the bassline, 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.400 but then you should do the chords with Monty oh, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.320 and I said, well, it's not like that on the record, 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:08.520 and he says, it's got to be better than the 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.000 record that was always his Thing's got to be better 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:16.880 than the record. It's like, okay, cool. So now I'm like, right, 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.800 I'm cool, like cool. So we finished the song. He says, 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.840 what note are you singing on the course? And I said, 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.760 I'm not singing a note on the chorus. I said, 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.920 Monty singing, and Terry singing, and Jesse's singing, and then 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:34.680 Morris got the main note. Whatever, find a note? Like okay. 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:36.760 He says, got to be bigger than the record. It's like, okay, 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:38.840 bigger than the record. Okay, cool. Right, So now I'm 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.240 playing through the seven seven seven ninety three eleven. So 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.600 I'm singing, right, I'm good. We finish. He goes, why 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.760 aren't you doing the choreography? Jimmy, damn not gonna dance, 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.520 I said, Prince, I'm standing at the keyboard when I'm 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:54.520 supposed to. It's simple choreography. You should be able to 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.760 do it. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I'm like 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.560 doing so now I'm trying to do the like the 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.800 little four corner step was like, and I'm trying to 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:02.640 do my hands and I'm trying to sing the note, 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.080 and I'm frustrated. I'm just so pissed off. I cannot 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.880 do it right, and I'm just I'm pissed off. And 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:09.920 I think about it all night and I'm just pissed off. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.400 So the next day we come back to rehearsal, he 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.800 says seven seven, seven ninety three eleven, and I'm just like, oh, 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:21.440 here we go. I start playing perfect by about the 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.400 fourth run through of it. Now I'm tipping my hat, 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:32.360 I'm taking my hand, my face. It became so easy. 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.400 And that taught me work ethic. That that was the 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.960 thing that taught me that he had a belief, like 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.400 a good coach, you can always do more. You can 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.280 always do more. You can't settle, you know. But he 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:45.760 saw that I could do more and push me to 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.120 do it. So from that moment on, all the stuff 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:50.840 in the studio where you can make a mistake and 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.520 who you know, whatever, But no, I mean that was 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.480 simple to play. To play ten minutes out of the 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.120 song was easy because forget about the rehearsals work. 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.280 Gad question, since you brought it up, has jelly Bean 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.119 ever played it proper once in these shows. 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.680 No, he can't, he can't play it. I've never heard 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:08.879 a drummer play it correctly. The drummer that plays that 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.359 the closest is is Morse. Wow. Really because yeah, because 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:17.040 Morris is a David Garibaldi fanatic guy and that yeah. 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.760 For our listeners that I haven't seen any other interviews, 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:27.720 we won't mention David Garibaldi. I guess principulled a Swiss 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:33.680 beat and just broke our hearts by using the stock program. 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:35.879 Do you know what number it was in the in 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:36.679 the drum? No? 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.120 I heard it was like it's one of the high ones, 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.000 like seventy seven or eighty something. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:41.560 Or hero. 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.679 Do you still But it wasn't. No, it was different 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.320 different drummers. When different drummers had different beats in that 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.000 drum machine. Oh, that was That was part of the 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.160 whole kind of selling point of it was they gave 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.919 it to different drummers and different drummers programmed their own beats. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:18:00.919 Do you still have the lin drum with those programs 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:01.480 in there? 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.159 It exists. I'm sure it exists, but we never had it. 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.560 That was always that was always Princess Okay, that was 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.240 always Princess, yeah one, but yeah, I know David Garabaldi, 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.919 but but but yeah, that was Morris's. Dude. If you 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:17.639 ever hear Morris play the drums, that's he can do 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.040 all of that tower of power stuff, like just crazy, 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:21.760 that's amazing. Yeah. 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.200 I didn't know what a drum machine was at the time, 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.119 so I spent like all of eighty two doing the 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.000 hand claps and the drum machine. And someone told me 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.240 that's a drum machine. That was heartbroken because I thought 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.320 all that stuff was real. So you came back for Alex. 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.280 Was he happy to see you guys? Or was it 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.760 like it's about town? Well? No, it was actually working 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.480 at this Perkins restaurant. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.320 Okay, so the Alex thing was so after Charrell. After 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.719 we did Charrell and Charrell was successful. The next artist 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:02.480 that uh Clarence brought us was a guy named Jeffrey Robinson. 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:14.760 And this guy was he's been stumped. Yeah, I don't think. 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.879 I don't think. I don't think anybody ever heard of 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:19.560 him again, But and I don't even know where he 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.720 came from. We were in Minneapolis now at this point 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:23.560 because we'd kind of moved up and we were working 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:27.679 at this creation audio place we talked about earlier. So, uh, anyway, 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:32.840 Jeffrey comes to town. Nice looking guy. I remember he 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.600 had an ascot. He was very sophisticated in the whole 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.679 thing and whatever. Now we had already done the tracks. 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:40.600 We had already done, you know, if you were here 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.159 tonight and I think we had done that look at 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.280 us now and another track I can't remember. Do you 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:47.600 want to like I do? We had done those three 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:52.160 tracks with Montyextre more So we showed him the songs 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.160 and we said, okay, come on, there's what we're gonna do. Now. 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.840 We figure he's gonna come in and kill it, right. 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.119 So he comes in and his voice kind of he 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.880 had one of those voices with there's a real fast vibrido. 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:10.680 So everything was like everything, yeah, exactly, and it was 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.919 a little weird and we were like, okay, well whatever, 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:17.520 and he said, yeah, my voice is skipping. He said, 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.560 you know, we'll do it to anybody, have tea anybody, 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.880 you know whatever. So it's like, okay, tee. Whatever came 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.520 back the next day is the same thing came back 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.560 the next day, it was the same thing. So we 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.439 called Clarence and we said, Okay, this dude you sent 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:32.720 up here, I'm not sure. 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:32.920 Man. 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.080 He's a nice looking dude, nice enough cat. I said, 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:36.200 I'm not really sure. 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:38.119 And so what do you want to do? 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.520 And we said, there's this guy named Alexander O'Neil and 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:47.760 he said, Alexander Neil was he irish? He said, no, Clarence, 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:49.560 he's a black dude. Man, I said, but you know 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:51.720 what kind of name was O'Neil for a black man? 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:53.640 I said, I don't know, Clarence, I said, but I said, 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.040 can we put him on the songs? And he said, yeah, yeah, 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.119 put him on there. I said, okay, cool. So he 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.879 went over to Alex's gig and Alex was finishing up 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:03.760 like one in the morning or whatever it was. And 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.600 we said, Alex, I said, we got these songs. I said, 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:08.160 can you come over and sing them? 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:08.240 Like? 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:09.680 I can't remember when we did it that night or 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:11.560 the next day, but we like literally did the three 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.640 songs the next day. Like he sang them all the way, 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.360 just like that, like just sang them right. We sent 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:23.120 him to Clarence. Clarence said, who's this mother, brother, said 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:26.360 Alexander Neil. He said, man, he said bring him out here. 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.760 So we did. We brought it, got a plane, went 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.000 to l A. Clarence signed him on the spot. 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:38.200 Did you talk to Alex Versus and said, don't. 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:39.719 You know, I think I think he knew that. I 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:42.840 think he knew. We didn't have to say a thing. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.320 But anyway, Yeah, but anyway, he got he got signed 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:46.840 off of that, and I don't know to this day 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.800 what happened to Jeffrey Robinson, but he was perfectly nice guy, 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:51.439 but he just he just didn't have it. So we 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.639 took those same songs, we added uh, you know, broken 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.960 heart can Mend and and and then we figured out 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.359 we knew from working with perfect album opener. 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:04.520 By the way, I love the nerve of you guys 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:09.399 starting out records albums with mid tempo stuff like I 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.639 would never thought to. Were you guys also sequencing the 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:13.400 records once you were. 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:15.680 Totally totally yeah. That was one of the great things 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.440 about doing records for Clarence because he totally let us. 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.960 We did the album opens out, really all the space, we. 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.520 Did all the we did all of the yeah, we 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:27.920 did all the all the that cover with the diner 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.760 and the whole thing. We did the video like we 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:33.240 conceptualized all of that stuff. I mean, obviously we had 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:34.760 people do it. I think a guy named Craig Rice 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.040 did the video. Who's does a bunch of stuff for stuff? 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:37.159 Now? 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:37.400 Right? 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.479 Okay, he did the actually shot the video, but it 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:43.040 was all our concepts. I mean he basically just let 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:45.280 us do and so we got really got spoiled. I 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.679 mean Clarence was amazing, you know, just because we told him. 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:50.639 Clarence had gone in a whole bunch of different things. 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:52.520 He was doing oil Company and he was doing all 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:55.080 these other different things, and we said, Clarence, you need 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:57.920 to be doing music and we're gonna make music fun 0:22:57.960 --> 0:22:59.720 for you again, you know, because at a certain point 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:01.680 he wasn't having fun doing music, and we said, we're 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:03.880 gonna make music fun for you again. And I think 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:05.160 we did that well. 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.760 Who who opens an album with mid tempo stuff? Because 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.679 like even with SLS Band, I think no one's going 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:16.200 to love you opens up sands of time, sands the time. Yeah, 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:17.800 like that's a risk. 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:22.360 That was a jam though, because we kind of did 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:25.439 it with with what do you call it? 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:28.520 What's the string? Yeah, hanging on the string contemplating. Yeah, 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:29.240 but it's like. 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:35.400 Loos Ends totally by Nick Martinelli, biggest bier of all time. 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:36.960 No love los. 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:49.000 No my thing, my thing, my thing with Nick because actually, 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:51.440 you know, I've never met Nick Martinelli in my life. 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:53.320 He's just a name on a lighter note to me. 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:57.760 And I love hanging on a string and I love Loosens. 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:00.880 It was the fact that I remember I read they 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:02.439 were asked about it and they were like, oh, it 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:04.439 sounds nothing like, it doesn't have anything to do with it. 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:07.120 And I just was like, oh, come on, really, yeah, 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:09.280 that was the thing to me. It's like, come on, now, 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:12.200 I'm an admit that at least if I was influenced 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:14.280 by some I'm gonna throw it out like we just 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:17.080 like we just said, you're talking about the kick trom 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:18.920 I'm like, no, the system man's. 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:22.000 I mean, but I'm saying, I mean, you know, you 0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:26.480 could your lawyers just could have been stand by. 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:28.640 Yeah, I just I just I mean to me that 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:30.400 that was the thing with that. But no, the Lucien's 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:32.879 records were amazing, the fifty second Street records, I mean 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:34.399 a lot of that, I mean, and that's when we 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:38.800 knew that our influence wasn't just in America that it 0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:40.960 was to the UK and it was like a whole 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:41.960 bunch of different places. 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:45.080 Wait, you didn't do tell me how you feel? 0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:49.280 No, Nick Martinelli did that. 0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:57.480 Did the BBQ bands Genie it's not hyr wish Is. 0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:00.800 I don't know who did it. I mean they were 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:02.520 I think they were self produced. 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:05.919 I think bbqban bbn q ban because that always when 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:07.200 I first heard, I thought it was you guys. 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:09.800 Well the first see the first I don't know which record, 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:11.399 but the first ones were done by the guys that 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:15.480 did the Change record, which was the first ones, which 0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:19.440 was a guy named Mario Malavesi and Jacques fred Petres. 0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:22.639 They did the BBQ ban so because to me it 0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:26.440 sounded like the Change record when I heard it. But yeah, 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:26.880 they were. 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:28.880 We got to get the change too at some point. 0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:34.400 Yeah, change was that was an interesting what was it? 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:34.680 Oh? 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:37.919 No, because we was. I heard you guys never got 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:39.960 paid for those times? That is that is correct? Well, 0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:43.000 we did eventually it came out of somebody else's budget 0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:45.680 though which I don't know remember who it was. But 0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:48.399 but no, we did. We went over to Italy to 0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:50.520 do the Change record. We were asked, you know, would 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:52.680 we like to produce the Change album and we said, yeah, we'd. 0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:53.720 Love to from Italy. 0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:59.520 The the No, the musicians are actually from America, from 0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:01.800 the most New York musicians as a matter of fact. 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:05.240 But the guys that produced it, it was this Jacques 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:10.760 fred Petris and Mario MALAVESI. Uh, they were I don't 0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:12.679 know whether they were Italian. I think we're French or 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:16.040 Italian or whatever. But the studio they recorded at was 0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:19.280 in Italy. It was actually in Modina in Italy, home 0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:22.119 of Ferrari, which I did. I didn't know back then. 0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:24.640 I saw I saw we would pass by this place 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:26.439 it said Ferrari, and it didn't even dawn on me. 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:30.320 That's like the actual Ferrari place, because you know, one 0:26:30.400 --> 0:26:32.240 hundred fifty dollars a week. I wasn't, you know, I 0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:34.960 wasn't thinking about it Ferrari, but it was. It was 0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:37.399 a great experience where there was a villa. I remember 0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:39.080 the first day we got there, they had you know, 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:42.280 they cooked everything for you, they did everything right. So 0:26:42.320 --> 0:26:45.040 the first day they brought out pasta right, and we're 0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:47.440 grubbing and we kept saying yeah, more and more, and 0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:50.200 they're like looking at me more and like yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:52.280 and we'd get done and we're like sitting back and 0:26:52.280 --> 0:26:55.399 then they bring chicken and we're like aha. We didn't 0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:59.080 know about the whole courses and the whole thing anyway, 0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:01.560 but the change record it was cool and we did it. 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:03.240 It was like a farm in the middle of nowhere 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:06.800 in this villa. We were totally bored to death. We 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:08.680 would have really appreciated and I wish it would have 0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:10.440 happened when were a little older, and we really would 0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:13.199 have appreciated how cool of a situation it was. But 0:27:13.280 --> 0:27:17.000 what it did is it introduced us to Otari tape 0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:20.080 machines because they had Otari tape machines. Everybody had student 0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:23.440 tape machines. Right this place had Otari and we loved 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:25.440 the machine and we thought, wow, this is a great machine. 0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:28.440 So there's all kind of a little It's funny because 0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:33.119 every story there's some little thing that has influenced or 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:35.240 something that we've done that's been significant, and that was 0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:38.040 a significant thing for us to find those tape machines 0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:40.920 because we couldn't afford a student tape machine. And when 0:27:40.920 --> 0:27:43.320 we found those tape machines, we got a great relationship 0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:46.440 with them and it turned out really well. There was 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:50.160 a guy in Change though named Timmy Allen who later 0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:52.200 on Today and Our for Jive Records, but he was 0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:54.639 the bass player. He wrote the song true Love and 0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:56.960 he wrote on that album and a couple other things. 0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:01.399 Could have been more talented guy, nicer guy, and uh. 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.080 That was a great experience making that record. And then 0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:07.880 we mixed with Michael Brower in New York. And we 0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:11.720 were always used to mixing like one song over a 0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:16.679 day or two with Steve Hodge. Michael Brower was banging 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:19.520 out three songs a day. We were like, oh man, 0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:22.000 I mean it was amazing. Yeah, but he was doing 0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:24.600 all the Luther Vandraws mixes, and we wanted that Luther 0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:26.440 Van Draws sound for the Change. 0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:31.040 Oh my god, Okay, Mike, were you did you see 0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:37.240 the snare drum? He has Yogi's drum set from Never 0:28:37.280 --> 0:28:42.240 Too Much. I'm trying to purchase it. Yeah he yeah, 0:28:42.280 --> 0:28:45.880 he knocks him out. He also did Holler notes Private 0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:49.880 Eye album and yeah, I'm trying to buy that the 0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:55.959 Never Too Much. Matter of fact, I think searching, I 0:28:56.040 --> 0:29:02.120 believe he said that everything that Luther's ever seen one. 0:29:01.280 --> 0:29:03.760 That was that was a snare dr Yeah, that would 0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:06.200 make sense, Yeah, trying to get it. That would make sense, 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:06.840 trying to get it. 0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:09.440 So he knocked it out in three days. 0:29:10.040 --> 0:29:10.720 Yeah, three days. 0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:13.520 We said, We said that these songs, three. 0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:14.840 Songs a day, and I think there was nine songs 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:17.160 on the album and you were satisfied what it mixes? Yeah, 0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:19.360 the mixes were great. I thought they were great. I was. 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:21.800 I was. We were just shocked because we we didn't know. 0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:24.080 And that's when we kind of learned. The pace in 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:27.440 la versus the pace in New York. You know, it's 0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:30.040 a whole different thing, and that that was one of 0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:30.880 the ways we. 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:34.120 But can you trust it? I mean, have you how 0:29:34.120 --> 0:29:36.960 many times do you have to recall a mix as 0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:38.320 in in that day? 0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:41.120 None, we'd recalled it none, No times that the that 0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:45.240 was the mix. We very rarely recalled mixes. I mean 0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:47.000 we once we got it to where we liked it, 0:29:47.040 --> 0:29:52.800 we liked it. We very rarely recalled mixes. Okay, very rarely. 0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:56.120 We would leave mistakes in there, and we would leave 0:29:56.600 --> 0:29:58.000 you know, we'd get it to a certain point and 0:29:58.040 --> 0:30:01.000 we just kind of feel like, you know, we'd always joke, 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:02.960 we go, okay, what five people aren't gonna buy the 0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:05.280 record because of this thing that only we hear. It's 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:08.840 like does it feel good? And is it? Yeah, it's 0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:14.200 it's good. And back then, mixing was very collaborative because 0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:16.280 you know, you had to have four guys with their 0:30:16.320 --> 0:30:19.440 fingers on the board and they weren't automated. 0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:21.120 No, not the way there. 0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:23.120 Well some of them were, but the one we were 0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:25.760 working on in New York was not automated. So we 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:29.360 literally did the mixes and the one that we uh 0:30:29.440 --> 0:30:32.440 even the ones that like we did at Creation Audio 0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:36.600 in Minneapolis, so Alexander O'Neil and Charrell and Shane well 0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:38.720 with the recording of Change, although we mixed in New York, 0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:41.320 but those records, no, it was all done people on 0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:45.240 faders and everybody. Man, you know, somebody would be in 0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:47.440 charge of the mutes and somebody would be in charge 0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:50.720 of whatever. So it was a performance and it was 0:30:50.760 --> 0:30:52.960 just about getting the best performance. It wasn't even about 0:30:52.960 --> 0:30:55.280 recalling the mix. It was just making a great performance. 0:30:55.720 --> 0:30:57.800 And I missed that that that was actually fun. I 0:30:57.880 --> 0:30:58.920 enjoyed that part of it. 0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:02.479 Okay, talk about your early forais into hip hop. Okay, 0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:06.720 let's talk about Captain Bad Times and the iced Teas Cold. 0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:13.800 Yeah. So those records were basically because we would hang 0:31:13.840 --> 0:31:15.880 out at a studio in l A called Studio Masters, 0:31:15.880 --> 0:31:17.760 and that was where Leon Silvers did a lot of 0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:21.360 his records. And I remember there's this guy named Cletus 0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:24.960 Robinson and he owned a record company called Saturn Records 0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:31.360 as the exactly and this dude looks like lives like 0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:32.560 his name sounds is how this. 0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:34.080 Dude and. 0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:39.240 This dude had I don't know he had this record 0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:41.560 and he just said, man, you know, the track ain't 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:43.640 happening on you know, we need a track for this 0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.800 you know, record and stuff. And we were like, okay, cool, 0:31:46.960 --> 0:31:49.640 and we just moved into the ob eight and the 0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:54.240 and the lin drum and just got down and you know, 0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:57.000 once again, Bad Times is another perfect example of just 0:31:57.320 --> 0:31:59.480 I just played that start to finish, the baseline, there's 0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:02.720 nothing say quinst and just played it from start to finish, 0:32:02.880 --> 0:32:06.520 and we didn't hear the singing and all that stuff 0:32:06.560 --> 0:32:09.920 and the rap, which nobody really used the rap. Everybody 0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:13.160 flipped it over to the right. But the girl's name 0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:17.880 was Kim Ball and she was who was her story? 0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:19.880 She was signed to a group that was signed to 0:32:20.040 --> 0:32:25.280 United Artists. Remember the group Enchantment. Yes, okay, so she 0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:27.640 was in Gloria, Yeah, Gloria, right, So she was involved 0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:30.520 with somebody there, Mike maybe Michael Stokes, maybe his girlfriend 0:32:30.640 --> 0:32:34.200 or or something. And uh, anyway, so they said this 0:32:34.240 --> 0:32:36.000 girl kim Ball is gonna sing. We said, okay, great, 0:32:36.240 --> 0:32:38.160 and we didn't hear it until it was actually done. 0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:39.760 All we did was go in and put the little 0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:42.800 track together for it, and we loved it. We were like, 0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:45.120 oh man, this is funky. And we were trying to 0:32:45.160 --> 0:32:46.920 make I was trying to make a D Trained record, 0:32:47.000 --> 0:32:51.760 quite honestly, because because Hubert Eves was from Minnesota. 0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:52.120 And I know. 0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:57.440 What, Yeah, it makes sense now that you say it, 0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:00.240 but I hear it from Chicago, but. 0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:00.880 I don't know. 0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:01.760 That's amazing. 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:03.800 Well, we knew him from Minneapolis because I remember we 0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:06.040 got a D Train record. I have no idea to 0:33:06.080 --> 0:33:08.320 this day where it showed up, but it was on 0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:11.560 our time tour bus and I remember seeing the record 0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:13.040 and it said D Train and we all looked at 0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:14.520 it and it was a white label, and we were like, 0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:16.760 D Train, what the heck is D Train? And then 0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:19.520 we started hearing the record, and I said, oh, this 0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:21.040 is the record we got and I looked at it 0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:22.560 and it was Hubert Eves and I said, oh, this 0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:25.480 is Hubert E's record. And we just knew him from Minneapolis. 0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:27.080 We were like, oh, there's Minneapolis boys. So we were 0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:29.360 always you know, like happy and proud of the stuff 0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.400 he did. So yeah, so I don't know, man, but yeah, 0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:35.160 that was that. And and the same thing with the 0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:39.080 Coldest Rap and that we didn't know we did the track. 0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:41.080 It was one of those things where you know, we 0:33:41.120 --> 0:33:42.239 just kind of went in and did it. I think 0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:43.840 we got five hundred bucks for it or something. And 0:33:43.880 --> 0:33:45.760 that was and that was you didn't know they were 0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:47.080 going to be a rap record. We didn't know what 0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:48.520 they were going to be. It was just gonna be 0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:51.040 it's just gonna be put put a track together, and 0:33:51.800 --> 0:33:53.920 you know, it is what it is. I think we knew, yes, 0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:55.640 I actually I do think we knew they were going 0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:57.720 to be rap records, but we didn't know, you know, 0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:00.800 iced Tea. We knew the names sort of Captain Rap. 0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:03.640 I knew because he had done some other stuff. I 0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:05.880 think I used to play one of his records even 0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:09.520 before that. If I'm not mistaken. So I ran into 0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:12.799 him by the way at the New Edition star ceremony. 0:34:13.120 --> 0:34:15.000 He came up to me and he said we worked 0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:17.840 together before, and I said we did. He said, yeah, 0:34:18.000 --> 0:34:20.640 he said on that on that Bad Times, I was 0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:24.359 the rapper on that. I said, oh, nice to meet you. 0:34:25.400 --> 0:34:28.360 It's very funny, man. So yeah, but no, that that 0:34:28.480 --> 0:34:31.400 was kind of our first, our first foray into hip hop, 0:34:31.719 --> 0:34:35.520 and I had it as interesting. I remember I was 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:38.840 coming from American Music Awards or something, and uh it 0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:41.520 was when Kid Rock was really jumping off huge and 0:34:41.560 --> 0:34:43.600 I remember we were walking into a door at the 0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:47.399 same time and Kit and he runs into me. Kid 0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:49.839 Rock runs into me and he said, oh, Man, sorry, 0:34:49.880 --> 0:34:51.759 sorry man. I said no, no, I'm sorry, man, after you? 0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:57.040 After you? And he said, hey, man, Jimmy Jam And 0:34:57.080 --> 0:34:59.520 I said, hey, what's up man? He goes, I can't 0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:00.480 stand he. 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:06.480 Said. 0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:09.359 I said, Man, you know that song? He said, Man, 0:35:09.360 --> 0:35:13.200 I'm from Detroit, I know all of y'all shit. I said, okay, cool, 0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:16.120 you know. So it was very cool man. But that 0:35:16.160 --> 0:35:18.080 record to this day, Man, we were just in Japan 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:21.160 and Korea and they were talking about that record over there. 0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:23.160 Where did those two records come in the timeline, like, 0:35:23.200 --> 0:35:25.520 were those before. 0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:31.600 We were Yeah, they're probably before SOSH, Yeah, before before 0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:35.640 SOOS because it's probably we were still working like real 0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:39.360 to real first climax stuff, Dynasty stuff. So this is 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:42.200 more of an eighty two type of thing, and SOS was. 0:35:42.160 --> 0:35:45.680 More of a drum machine time. 0:35:45.800 --> 0:35:50.960 Yeah, it's a distorted Oh you know, No, it wasn't 0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:54.680 a lin drum. What the heck was that thing? That's 0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:57.000 a great question question. I can't remember what the heck 0:35:57.040 --> 0:35:59.680 it was. It was something so distorted and wrong. 0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:05.640 No, it's right, right, right, I take it through that record, 0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:07.640 but you're trying to figure out how you trying to 0:36:07.640 --> 0:36:10.400 figure out what drummer scene you used for that? 0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:13.640 Yeah? What was that thing? It was whatever was laying 0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:15.719 around that day at the studio. It wasn't anything that 0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:18.120 we brought. It was whatever was laying around. 0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:35.200 Yeah, I brought it. Now can I jump in nineteen 0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:36.520 eighty six? Thank you? 0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:37.759 It's a big Jim. 0:36:38.320 --> 0:36:43.800 So, how's the idea even come up that Janet Jackson 0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:44.839 wants to work with you guys? 0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:48.360 Okay, so the story there is there was Okay, so 0:36:48.440 --> 0:36:52.680 John McLean, who was an R guy at at m Records. 0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:58.680 He had called us to work on Howard Johnson and 0:36:59.200 --> 0:37:02.960 yep so, which so fine is one of the best 0:37:03.000 --> 0:37:05.000 records of all time to me. I mean, this wasn't 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:06.920 quite an amazing record, but anyway, so this was like 0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:10.359 the follow up album and they he called us and said, 0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:11.759 you want to do some stuff on our Johns and 0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:13.640 we said, yeah, yeah, that'd be cool. So anyway, we 0:37:13.680 --> 0:37:15.440 did a couple of things on him. It didn't jump 0:37:15.520 --> 0:37:17.640 off big or anything, but it was great working with him. 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:22.120 Very talented dude. And I remember we were really into 0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:24.400 Steve Arrington at that point, and so we did this record, 0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:31.759 called me yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it worked. So anyway, 0:37:32.800 --> 0:37:34.600 so then the next thing he asked us did we 0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:36.640 want to do? He said, hey, the girl an Atlantic 0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:38.320 Star is going to make a solo album. Do you 0:37:38.360 --> 0:37:40.239 want to work with Aaron Bryan Do you want to 0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:42.640 work with her? And I said, oh, yeah, we love 0:37:42.719 --> 0:37:48.040 Sharon Bryant. Yeah that was cool. So we you know, 0:37:48.239 --> 0:37:50.480 we were like, okay, we're excited, We're ready to go. 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:52.120 So then we get a phone call and he goes 0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:54.560 and we started working on tracks for her and stuff. 0:37:54.600 --> 0:37:57.080 So he got a phone call and he just said, hey, 0:37:57.120 --> 0:37:58.960 you know, I don't know how to say this, but 0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:00.640 you know, she doesn't really want to work with y' all. 0:38:01.760 --> 0:38:04.319 She's got yeah, she's got another producer she wants to 0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:06.400 work with her whatever. I guess her boyfriend or whoever 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:09.040 was at the time, right, So we were like so 0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:11.760 we were like, okay, cool, you know, that's that's cool whatever, 0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:14.040 And he said, man, he's not embarrassed, man, he said. So, 0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:16.319 he said, what is it? Is there something else on it? 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:17.880 You know that that you would like to work on 0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:20.040 for us, you know whatever? And we said, well, send 0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:22.960 a roster. So they sent a roster and me and 0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:25.120 Terry looked at the roster and we're going down the names, 0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:27.399 and then Janet Jackson. We both stopped on Jana Jackson, 0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:30.200 looked at each other and said Janet Jackson. So we 0:38:30.320 --> 0:38:31.880 called John and we said, John, we want to do 0:38:32.000 --> 0:38:35.400 Janet And he says, oh, okay, yeah, that's cool. How 0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:37.080 many songs you want to do? Three? Four songs? I said, no, 0:38:37.080 --> 0:38:41.200 we want to do the whole album? You do? Yeah? 0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:45.319 Was that an even option back then? Because as far 0:38:45.360 --> 0:38:51.640 as I know, we're illmatic esque productions A thing on 0:38:51.760 --> 0:38:54.960 R and B records back then there are different producers, 0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:58.759 I mean, the first two Jet albums. Okay, you're right, 0:38:58.800 --> 0:38:59.480 you're right, you're right. 0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:02.439 Speaking of uh, did you guys, did you guys choose 0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:06.200 Janet because of Jesse working with her on the previous Jesse. 0:39:06.080 --> 0:39:10.680 Jesse had yes, because what happened was we actually went 0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:15.360 we're in a session with her on the first album 0:39:15.400 --> 0:39:17.239 that Renee and Angela did half of it, and I 0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:20.120 think Leon Silvers at the other half, and we were 0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:23.000 actually in the session with her and actually, don't give 0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:26.319 up this good thing. Yeah, don't give up this good thing. 0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:28.480 And the one I loved was come, Come give your 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:30.200 love to me. Yeah, that was the one I loved. 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:33.239 And so we knew she was cool. She was big 0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:35.360 fans of the time. She sat front row when we 0:39:35.360 --> 0:39:37.480 played Long Beach when we couldn't play the form and 0:39:37.480 --> 0:39:39.520 played Long but she sat front row with her mom, 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:41.520 and she came back after and met us and stuff. 0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:44.520 She was so sweet and all that. So anyway, so 0:39:44.600 --> 0:39:47.480 we knew already, we felt like we already kind of 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:49.600 had a little bit of a relationship with her. But 0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:56.640 when Jesse did Fast Girls and that, we just thought, wow, Okay, 0:39:56.800 --> 0:39:59.719 that's more, she's got like a little attitude to her 0:39:59.719 --> 0:40:02.920 because we knew young she had an attitude because when 0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:04.839 she was doing the whole May West thing and doing 0:40:04.840 --> 0:40:08.280 the variety show stuff, she always had such a personality 0:40:08.440 --> 0:40:11.319 and sassly right, So we were like, that's what needs 0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:13.600 to be happening with her. To me, is that kind 0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:15.360 of thing. So that's me and Terry were both thinking 0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:17.200 that same thing. So that was kind of the idea. 0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:21.200 So we said, Okay, cool, that's that's what we're gonna do. 0:40:21.239 --> 0:40:23.680 That's what we'll do. And uh so we had a 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:26.480 meeting and I remember at the meeting it was her 0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:31.480 dad and her and John and I remember they played 0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:34.560 Heat of Heat by Patty Austin, which was the current 0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:36.640 record we had just done. 0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:46.480 And she because she has such the craziest as you 0:40:46.840 --> 0:40:47.680 I wouldn't know. 0:40:51.239 --> 0:40:55.320 That level, you know what though she it was funny. 0:40:55.400 --> 0:40:57.759 We didn't know her well enough to know her sense 0:40:57.800 --> 0:41:01.040 of humor. She did. She did those three songs in 0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:06.160 like a day. Oh my god, we were sitting there. 0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:08.440 She's because we booked three days. We figured we'll do 0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:11.239 a song a day, and she tore through whatever. The 0:41:11.280 --> 0:41:13.680 first song we did she tore through it that leads 0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:16.480 in the background so fast, and me and Terry are 0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:18.680 sitting there looking at each other, going, is there something 0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:21.839 else to do? Patty? You want to do the next song? Yeah, 0:41:21.920 --> 0:41:23.600 let's do it. Okay cool? And then we did it, 0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:27.759 and then we were like, uh, okay, well we'll do 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:31.839 the next one tomorrow. I guess it's because we read unbelievable. 0:41:31.880 --> 0:41:34.400 I never heard somebody sing that fast, But so we 0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:36.480 didn't really get to know her, like, she had a 0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:39.520 great personality, she was very nice. We were just too young, 0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:43.879 nervous doing something for Quincy Jones. Oh my god, we're 0:41:43.880 --> 0:41:47.239 trying to do string arrangements and we're trying to like, oh, 0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:49.640 we got to impress Quincy because he's trusting us with 0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:53.120 this at this point. Oh my god, yes, oh that's 0:41:53.200 --> 0:41:53.880 Quincy Jones. 0:41:53.880 --> 0:41:57.600 Man, Come on man, But y'all, mus I mean, at 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:01.959 what point we all like, yeah, like, what point were 0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:08.439 you like all right kiss my ass princes? Uh? Control? No? 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:10.399 Never, really, I don't I don't think we. I don't 0:42:10.440 --> 0:42:12.040 think we've ever felt that way. 0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:15.239 Because to me, were you in the audience the night 0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:18.080 that he was telling you guys about I want to 0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:22.839 hear this on your records. Yes, I mean I never 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:25.160 took it as a real insult. I just like, Okay, 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:27.640 he's giving you guys props, Like what did you. 0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:31.840 I took it as an insult because, yeah, because he 0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:35.239 he came by. He came by. I remember he drove 0:42:35.320 --> 0:42:40.200 by my house right after the Control album came out, 0:42:40.680 --> 0:42:43.240 and uh, he like threw the CD out the window 0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:45.520 or did something you yeah. 0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:49.799 You yeah, legendary. 0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:52.840 Yeah, so it was. It was weird. And I remember 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:56.680 thinking that because right well, I realized my mom told me. 0:42:56.880 --> 0:42:58.640 My mom was the one that would always say, you know, 0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:01.040 when people do that, it means that they're really they're 0:43:01.160 --> 0:43:03.680 jealous of you for something. And I'm going because I'm 0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:05.960 always thinking to myself, how the hell is Prince jealous 0:43:05.960 --> 0:43:09.080 of me? I said that dude is the most talented 0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:14.120 dude ever in the history of people period. How is 0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.080 he jealous of me? I can't even I nowhere near him. 0:43:18.400 --> 0:43:20.840 Cause you're you're inside the bubble and couldn't be outside 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:24.480 to see it. But yeah, well that literally took over 0:43:24.600 --> 0:43:25.240 black music. 0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:27.879 No get I get the result of what it was, 0:43:27.920 --> 0:43:30.480 but I never I never felt like I just felt 0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:33.200 like we did our job like we like we set 0:43:33.200 --> 0:43:35.399 out to do, like what the Control album, our whole 0:43:35.440 --> 0:43:37.279 thing was and I think I've been quoting on this 0:43:37.320 --> 0:43:39.960 a few times. In our neighborhood that we lived in 0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:43.120 at the time there was in l because we were 0:43:43.200 --> 0:43:46.160 we had still had a place in la and we 0:43:46.200 --> 0:43:49.800 would drive up the street and you'd hear music blasting 0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:54.040 out of everybody's homes, right, and we just wanted to 0:43:54.080 --> 0:43:56.399 be that record that everybody was blasting out their home, 0:43:57.320 --> 0:43:59.160 and so it had to be funky, it had to 0:43:59.200 --> 0:44:01.800 be aggressive, it had to be loud. There was already, 0:44:01.920 --> 0:44:05.080 I mean, females weren't really making those kinds of records. 0:44:05.120 --> 0:44:08.560 Those records were all rap records or whatever, and we 0:44:08.600 --> 0:44:10.600 wanted to make that kind of record because we felt 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:13.680 she had the attitude to pull it off. And so 0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:19.160 that was the whole thing. And that so the one 0:44:19.200 --> 0:44:21.440 of the best days of my life was actually when 0:44:21.480 --> 0:44:23.759 the album came out, and I remember driving up that 0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:27.640 same street and hearing that record blasting out of everybody's house. 0:44:28.200 --> 0:44:31.239 And at that point, forget whether where we're at the 0:44:31.320 --> 0:44:34.279 charts or where we're at it sales, I felt like 0:44:34.400 --> 0:44:36.920 we did what we accomplished. I mean, we accomplished what 0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:40.720 we set out to do, and I hadn't really felt 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:45.000 that way honestly as a producer. I never felt like 0:44:45.080 --> 0:44:47.399 we The first record we did that actually turned out 0:44:47.680 --> 0:44:50.359 in real life the way we heard it in our 0:44:50.400 --> 0:44:53.280 heads was The Finest by the soos Man. Oh wow, 0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:57.319 that record. We heard it in our heads because we 0:44:57.360 --> 0:44:59.040 said we got to switch up from the eight h 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:02.080 eight thing. We did browed Love on that album, right, 0:45:02.120 --> 0:45:03.920 because they said, because the record company is like, well, 0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:06.400 you got to have another one that sounds like. We said, okay, fine, 0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:10.840 we do, we'll do that, but we got yeah, but 0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:17.520 asked for like a yes, yes they did. They did, 0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:23.520 Yes they did. They said yeah, no they did. It 0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:26.000 was and and so we were like, okay, yeah, we'll 0:45:26.040 --> 0:45:29.919 do that, but that's not what we really hear for them. 0:45:30.040 --> 0:45:32.760 And when we did The Finest, it was like in 0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:37.520 our heads we were like, this is the cut for them, 0:45:37.760 --> 0:45:40.280 like good boom boom boom. 0:45:44.280 --> 0:45:47.280 It was about the space of that song. My favorite 0:45:47.280 --> 0:45:48.520 part of that song is just the fact that it 0:45:48.600 --> 0:45:53.960 stops right. That stops right, Well, that's the finest. 0:45:56.440 --> 0:45:59.279 Yeah, I mean, there's something about because that song is sophisticated, 0:45:59.280 --> 0:46:01.440 And I always thought the saw the span was really sophisticated, 0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:03.000 because even from taking your time to do it right, 0:46:03.320 --> 0:46:05.759 you do not hearing songs that have Glockenspiel in it, 0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:07.040 you know what I'm saying. So that was the thing. 0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:08.759 But that record actually came out the way we thought 0:46:08.800 --> 0:46:11.480 it would. We wanted it to come out. What is 0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:11.920 it about? 0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:13.960 I think this is one of the first questions I 0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:18.440 asked you on Twitter when I realized that that was 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:19.040 actually you. 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:22.799 Hey, I finally got verified by the way, Yeah, I 0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:24.920 saw you. We did that. 0:46:25.520 --> 0:46:29.680 Yeah, Okay, okay, daun damn fun who. 0:46:31.040 --> 0:46:31.840 Uh? 0:46:33.280 --> 0:46:38.920 What is it about E flat? I know you said, like, 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:41.480 you know, whatever the song calls for in my head, 0:46:41.880 --> 0:46:45.680 that's what I make it. But I mean a lot 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:50.080 of your is there by design. Do you feel that 0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:55.319 that that E flat minor is like the black the 0:46:55.360 --> 0:46:59.120 black black key, like that experience? 0:46:59.200 --> 0:46:59.239 No? 0:46:59.320 --> 0:47:01.400 I mean some of you, your your best funk songs. 0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:04.120 For what have you done for me lately? To the 0:47:04.160 --> 0:47:08.840 finest two? You know a lot of your grittier, funkier 0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:12.440 songs are done in that key, which I mean that 0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:14.960 it allows you to just hit all the black keys 0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:19.040 and not. It's never a wrong key, that's right. But 0:47:20.760 --> 0:47:23.800 what what D minor was for James Brown? Almost feel 0:47:23.880 --> 0:47:28.560 like E flat Well that I used to identify as 0:47:28.560 --> 0:47:32.800 Stevie Wonder's key, but now that's the jam and Lewis 0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:36.520 key to me, Like, is it something about or is 0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:40.360 it just the singing as you pick their range is 0:47:41.040 --> 0:47:46.680 strictly in that that particular or am I overthinking it? 0:47:50.080 --> 0:47:53.759 Let's go with that. No, you're not over you're not 0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:57.720 overthinking it. But the simple, the simple answer is because 0:47:57.760 --> 0:48:02.520 it's a funky ass key. It's it's it's funky because 0:48:03.440 --> 0:48:07.560 E traditionally was always the lowest note on a bass, 0:48:08.360 --> 0:48:12.280 on a traditional bass, if you go one half step lower, 0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:15.560 it's even funkier because it's all about just the lowness 0:48:15.600 --> 0:48:17.520 of it. And it was something that a as a 0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:20.640 keyboard player, say, bass player couldn't do that they could 0:48:20.680 --> 0:48:23.640 tune down, I guess if they wanted to. But no, 0:48:23.840 --> 0:48:26.239 the bass player couldn't go to E flat, but a 0:48:26.320 --> 0:48:28.960 keyboard player could so because most of our stuff was 0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:30.000 that's right. 0:48:30.040 --> 0:48:32.320 All your E flat joints are a keyboard. 0:48:32.200 --> 0:48:32.759 They're all key. 0:48:32.880 --> 0:48:37.960 Wow, Okay, that makes sense. I don't know I I 0:48:38.080 --> 0:48:47.320 have a personal disdain for for week E minor songs 0:48:47.719 --> 0:48:50.480 like you know, because basically it's like, Okay, thank you 0:48:50.520 --> 0:48:54.239 for letting me be myself. I'm taking Rhythm Nation for this. 0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:58.280 I'm not trying to insult. I'm just saying that that's 0:48:58.360 --> 0:49:02.120 such a mountain climb. I feel like everybody that does 0:49:03.080 --> 0:49:08.040 anything in an E minors like that, they're they're they're 0:49:08.080 --> 0:49:11.439 the mountain Fiji. The mount Fiji to them is thank 0:49:11.440 --> 0:49:14.200 you for letting me be myself. Okay, I'm in here 0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:16.960 from get the Funk out in my Face to all 0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:21.080 those songs yes in that key, yes, which I mean 0:49:21.120 --> 0:49:24.320 there's some cool ones like maybe Glide by Pleasure or 0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:29.120 that sort of thing, but I don't know. I'm not 0:49:29.840 --> 0:49:35.759 a fan of funk bands that that do songs in 0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:38.200 that key, right, And I know it's supposed to be 0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:38.480 in that. 0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:40.319 Key because it's easy to play, it's the lowest, but 0:49:40.360 --> 0:49:42.040 it's also the lowest, it's the lowest, so it's just 0:49:42.080 --> 0:49:44.880 it's kind of turns out to be the funkiest key. 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:47.320 But so the idea of going a half step lower 0:49:47.400 --> 0:49:51.120 was always just something about it fakes an E flat 0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:54.880 and I think fakes right, Yeah, and uh, I think 0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:57.720 Encore is in E flat too. Ye, sure, they are, 0:49:57.760 --> 0:50:00.120 Like a lot of your dance classics are in that key, 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:03.200 which I just think it's a funky key. 0:50:04.000 --> 0:50:04.319 It is. 0:50:05.000 --> 0:50:07.120 Before we get back to Janet and this is going 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:09.360 to circle back around, can we talk about the Secret? 0:50:10.040 --> 0:50:10.400 Sure? 0:50:11.080 --> 0:50:13.640 What was the secret? And where did all those songs 0:50:13.719 --> 0:50:15.800 end up that we're going to be on that project? 0:50:15.840 --> 0:50:22.279 Hah okay. So so when we were booted from the time, 0:50:22.400 --> 0:50:26.480 the thing that people always ask were I was when 0:50:26.480 --> 0:50:29.160 are you guys going to put another band together? And 0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:32.680 our answer always was never, because we've already played with 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:34.480 the best band we could ever play with, So we're 0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:37.239 never going to put a band together. However, we will 0:50:37.280 --> 0:50:40.600 do a project and it'll be me and Terry and 0:50:40.640 --> 0:50:43.400 we'll probably add Our fantasy at that time was to 0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:49.160 add a guitar player girl, and we were going to 0:50:49.200 --> 0:50:54.400 be called the Secret and we did. We started recording 0:50:54.480 --> 0:50:56.719 tracks for what we thought was going to be a 0:50:56.760 --> 0:51:01.520 secret album, probably around eighty four five something like that. 0:51:03.760 --> 0:51:05.640 Some of those tracks have seen the light of day. 0:51:06.600 --> 0:51:10.040 What have you done for Me lately? Was a secret track? WHOA, 0:51:12.040 --> 0:51:14.279 there's another song on that same album called You Could 0:51:14.280 --> 0:51:18.120 Be Mine. Yeah, that was a secret track and h 0:51:19.120 --> 0:51:20.839 and as a matter of fact, I'll tell you, I'll 0:51:20.840 --> 0:51:22.600 tell you that what have you done for me lately? 0:51:23.280 --> 0:51:26.520 In our story? So, we had done the album. The 0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:30.720 album was totally done. We sent it in. John McLain 0:51:30.840 --> 0:51:34.360 listened to it and as all in our people always say, 0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:39.000 I just need one more. And I'm like, going, John, 0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:41.719 you got control, you got nasty, you got When I 0:51:41.760 --> 0:51:43.560 think of you, I mean, you got your singles? Man, 0:51:43.680 --> 0:51:46.160 what do you need? I just need there's something more. 0:51:46.200 --> 0:51:47.960 I need one more. So anyway, you. 0:51:47.920 --> 0:51:50.279 Planned on a four to four eight song? 0:51:50.680 --> 0:51:53.360 Yeah, yeah, we were done. We thought we were good. 0:51:53.440 --> 0:51:58.440 In your mind? What was the fourth song on Satday? 0:51:58.600 --> 0:52:02.839 That I don't know because we didn't know because we 0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:05.160 hadn't at that point, we hadn't sequenced it. It was 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:07.719 not sequenced. It was just that we just felt we 0:52:07.719 --> 0:52:09.520 were done. We got enough songs, were good. 0:52:09.600 --> 0:52:11.719 Okay, So did you record any extra or were those 0:52:11.800 --> 0:52:12.480 nine songs it? 0:52:15.200 --> 0:52:18.360 We did record? Actually extra? We recorded a song. Actually 0:52:18.440 --> 0:52:26.000 there was a guy named Hammy Uh that played with Yeah, 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:28.600 it was with Real to Reel. He played with Real 0:52:28.640 --> 0:52:30.719 to Reel and He actually did a song called the 0:52:31.320 --> 0:52:35.080 Hungry for Your Love that we recorded with Janet's really good. 0:52:35.120 --> 0:52:37.640 It's it's very come give your love to me. It's 0:52:37.719 --> 0:52:39.600 kind of in that vain because we said, can we 0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:42.480 get a song that has that kind of you know, 0:52:42.880 --> 0:52:45.839 that kind of new wave pop type of thing. 0:52:46.200 --> 0:52:51.440 Yeah, did he get replaced by he doesn't even know 0:52:51.480 --> 0:52:51.920 I'm alive? 0:52:52.880 --> 0:52:54.600 No, he doesn't even know I'm a live? 0:52:54.800 --> 0:52:58.399 Wait? Can I ask if we mentioned yeah? Can I guess? 0:52:58.600 --> 0:53:01.560 Was that the first song you guys worked? Yes, fucking 0:53:01.640 --> 0:53:11.799 I'm a genius. I gus, okay, thing you have a radio? 0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:18.600 Shut up, Steve, Okay, that's all I wanted to know. 0:53:19.360 --> 0:53:22.319 Steveson ship for three hours? How do you tell that 0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:24.160 was the first one? Like it just so so different. 0:53:24.520 --> 0:53:27.200 It just felt like but the thing I still feeling 0:53:27.239 --> 0:53:28.640 each other out, Like. 0:53:29.040 --> 0:53:31.840 He doesn't even know I'm alive is probably the only 0:53:31.880 --> 0:53:35.480 thing that's really close to like Bookie, Oh okay, Like 0:53:35.960 --> 0:53:39.680 that felt like it could be released in eighty three, 0:53:40.120 --> 0:53:41.399 like it could have been on one of the first 0:53:41.440 --> 0:53:43.640 two hours. I almost didn't believe you guys did it? 0:53:43.719 --> 0:53:46.840 And all right to slight confession. When I was working 0:53:46.880 --> 0:53:51.600 at music land at sam Goodies in high school, this 0:53:51.760 --> 0:53:57.040 cat named Spencer. Yeah, have me believe that he was 0:53:57.120 --> 0:53:59.959 the Spencer Bernard that that song? 0:54:00.000 --> 0:54:01.120 Oh my god, that's great. 0:54:02.239 --> 0:54:04.080 Yeah, but you just havn't worked with me. Yeah, I 0:54:04.120 --> 0:54:10.440 was gollable in high school. Okay, but yeah, it it 0:54:10.640 --> 0:54:15.040 fit for a reason. It's a like he doesn't even 0:54:15.040 --> 0:54:19.239 know I'm alive. Was I felt that was the blackest 0:54:19.840 --> 0:54:23.440 record as far as the two step barbecue boogie, like 0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:26.239 it felt like on the beat by the bb Q 0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:31.040 ban or that sort of thing. Whereas even though the 0:54:31.120 --> 0:54:36.000 other songs were relentlessly funky, Yeah, it was class and polished, 0:54:36.040 --> 0:54:39.799 and I felt that you guys are really planting your 0:54:39.800 --> 0:54:42.520 flag in Minneapolis and saying now we're the standard. 0:54:42.840 --> 0:54:46.040 Yeah, and it's a great bridge between you know, the 0:54:46.080 --> 0:54:48.440 songs and then the two songs and end the record too. 0:54:48.520 --> 0:54:52.680 Yeah well okay, so yeah, so you're absolutely right. It 0:54:52.840 --> 0:54:55.520 was the first song we did. And what and how 0:54:55.560 --> 0:54:57.680 it happened was when we knew we were going to 0:54:57.719 --> 0:55:04.279 record Janet Spencer Bernard and Lisa Keith were married. Ah, 0:55:04.320 --> 0:55:07.880 and uh so Spencer did production and writing and stuff 0:55:07.920 --> 0:55:09.800 for us. He had his own band called King's English 0:55:10.520 --> 0:55:13.800 that never ever saw the light of day, but was great, 0:55:13.920 --> 0:55:18.480 very title, very duran duranish, uh type type of stuff 0:55:18.480 --> 0:55:22.640 they were doing. Black dudes, White dudes is white white. 0:55:22.640 --> 0:55:28.640 Spencer's white making love. 0:55:29.760 --> 0:55:39.560 That's wow. Yeah, wait you completely her super Nerds? Yes 0:55:39.680 --> 0:55:41.759 you you finally I didn't know that. 0:55:41.840 --> 0:55:45.120 Yeah you should. Actually, her solo album is very good. 0:55:45.600 --> 0:55:49.640 It's very good. She's an amazing singer in the first time. 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:50.279 I know. 0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:52.160 I'm just happy I know who she is. And she 0:55:52.320 --> 0:55:53.479 sounds so black when she sings. 0:55:53.480 --> 0:55:56.920 That's hell yeah, because Janet is singing backgrounds on that, right. 0:55:57.480 --> 0:56:00.000 Lisa, they're singing, Yeah, that's Lisa's lead. Yeah, they're singing 0:56:00.080 --> 0:56:01.000 together on the background. 0:56:01.160 --> 0:56:01.399 Damn. 0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:08.200 Thought Lisa was like, so Lisa was like our backgrounds 0:56:08.280 --> 0:56:11.640 our background, secret weapon. Like she was on a ton 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:17.480 of records if you remember the record, yes, yeah and 0:56:17.520 --> 0:56:18.720 she yeah she's white. 0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:22.360 Yeah, like Bobby call well. 0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:27.000 Yeah people records. Why should I cry known to him? 0:56:27.920 --> 0:56:31.600 That's her on that and uh, trying to think there's 0:56:31.640 --> 0:56:34.960 another one that she's pretty really prominent on too. Uh 0:56:35.120 --> 0:56:37.759 She's I'm blanking now, but no, she she was like 0:56:37.800 --> 0:56:38.560 the secret weapon. 0:56:38.600 --> 0:56:41.480 She used to that Heroin was that heroine Pillow as 0:56:41.520 --> 0:56:43.439 well on her album. Was on that one. 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:50.040 Yes, yeah Pillow, yep record, yep, Jesus Christ. Okay, so 0:56:50.520 --> 0:56:54.839 thank you very much. We only made eighty six. 0:56:54.920 --> 0:56:57.239 Yeah, so he doesn't know him alive. Just to just 0:56:57.280 --> 0:56:59.399 wrap it up. Yes, So we said to them we're 0:56:59.440 --> 0:57:03.040 going to be doing Janna Jackson and if you guys 0:57:03.080 --> 0:57:06.560 got a song, do it. So they wrote it, she 0:57:06.680 --> 0:57:11.400 demoed it, and for us it was it became the 0:57:11.520 --> 0:57:14.279 song that when Janet came to town and we you know, 0:57:14.320 --> 0:57:16.680 the story is that we didn't do anything in the 0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:19.320 studio for like four or five days. It's absolutely true. 0:57:20.760 --> 0:57:25.440 She came, hung out, got to know her, talked, so 0:57:25.520 --> 0:57:26.240 that's important. 0:57:26.560 --> 0:57:29.160 Yes, yeah, research, research. 0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:31.960 Wasnner tonight. 0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:38.680 That was no, that was that was that was the 0:57:38.760 --> 0:57:41.720 key to that, and and and and so so truly 0:57:42.400 --> 0:57:45.640 she came. I mean, we went to movies, we went 0:57:45.720 --> 0:57:47.280 we hung out at the lakes because the lakes and 0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:49.680 Minnesota are amazing and in the summertime and this was 0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:52.560 like June, and uh, we just kind of hung out. 0:57:52.600 --> 0:57:55.479 And then after about three or four days, she said, 0:57:55.680 --> 0:57:58.640 what are we going to start working? And we said, uh, well, 0:57:58.680 --> 0:58:01.040 we've already been working and we showed her the lyrics 0:58:01.080 --> 0:58:04.560 to Control Wow, and she said, oh wait, this is 0:58:04.600 --> 0:58:06.520 what we've been talking about, because she told us a 0:58:06.520 --> 0:58:08.480 whole story about leaving home and she's going to get 0:58:08.480 --> 0:58:10.800 her own place and this whole thing. And we just 0:58:10.920 --> 0:58:13.960 worked making mental notes and then Terry would go home 0:58:14.000 --> 0:58:17.040 and like jot notes down and stuff, and we started like, okay, 0:58:17.120 --> 0:58:20.760 let's figure this out. And so when once we said 0:58:20.800 --> 0:58:23.160 that to her and she says, well, wait, so the 0:58:23.200 --> 0:58:25.520 album's going to be like whatever we're thinking about, and 0:58:25.600 --> 0:58:27.600 like whatever, I think that's what the album's going to be. 0:58:27.640 --> 0:58:31.479 And it's like yeah. It was like a light bulb 0:58:31.480 --> 0:58:33.280 win in her head. She was like, okay, well I 0:58:33.360 --> 0:58:34.080 want to talk about this and. 0:58:34.080 --> 0:58:34.520 I want to do this. 0:58:34.560 --> 0:58:36.520 I want to do I mean, it's like it was like, 0:58:36.600 --> 0:58:40.280 because think about her albums before. If we're all, Leon 0:58:40.320 --> 0:58:43.080 did a bunch of songs going and sing them, you know, 0:58:43.160 --> 0:58:45.480 Jesse did some songs going and singing. Jorgio Moroder did some, 0:58:45.600 --> 0:58:47.000 or people a lot of or whoever was going and 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:49.080 sing them. I mean, that was it. We were actually 0:58:49.120 --> 0:58:50.920 asking her input and she and it was at a 0:58:50.960 --> 0:58:53.320 point where she really had something to say, and she 0:58:53.360 --> 0:58:56.600 didn't think of herself as a songwriter, and technically she 0:58:56.720 --> 0:59:00.600 probably wasn't technically a songwriter. But the idea is and 0:59:00.640 --> 0:59:03.640 what we talked about were what became the records? 0:59:03.840 --> 0:59:05.480 I mean the credit on the record. 0:59:05.520 --> 0:59:08.560 Oh absolutely, because the records wouldn't exist without her. We 0:59:08.560 --> 0:59:10.600 wouldn't write, we wouldn't write control without her. 0:59:10.840 --> 0:59:13.480 So what point are you guys actually in a room 0:59:13.480 --> 0:59:17.800 together as you three and writing songs on that album? 0:59:17.880 --> 0:59:18.360 Not at all? 0:59:18.520 --> 0:59:18.840 Okay? 0:59:19.000 --> 0:59:22.760 No, No, that album was sitting in a room like this, 0:59:22.960 --> 0:59:27.160 telling stories and like you would say something and we go, 0:59:27.640 --> 0:59:31.240 that's cool, and we write it down and then our 0:59:31.240 --> 0:59:37.920 wordsmiths sometimes who tell Terry is Terry's I call him 0:59:37.960 --> 0:59:39.960 lyric masters. See the rhyming dictionary up there. 0:59:42.120 --> 0:59:44.080 Oh my god, you're right. 0:59:44.200 --> 0:59:46.800 Okay, So did Nasty come from like a funny story, 0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:48.760 because I'm trying to figure out these are okay. 0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:50.919 Yes, okay, nasty. Nasty came from one of the first 0:59:51.000 --> 0:59:53.120 days we were hanging around. So there there. 0:59:53.080 --> 0:59:54.960 Was a club James Debart's story. 0:59:55.080 --> 1:00:01.560 There there was a there was a club downtown Minneapolis. 1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:03.840 I can't remember what it was called, and we were 1:00:03.840 --> 1:00:06.200 all hanging out and we were actually we weren't even 1:00:06.320 --> 1:00:07.840 in the club. We were just kind of it was 1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:10.960 kind of in a building that was like an office building, 1:00:10.960 --> 1:00:12.920 so that you could just hang in the lobby. You 1:00:12.960 --> 1:00:14.479 never had to really go in the club. You could 1:00:14.480 --> 1:00:17.240 just hang out, right, So we were all just kind 1:00:17.240 --> 1:00:21.280 of hanging out, and these guys came up and started 1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:25.320 talking to Janet and they were kind of saying some 1:00:25.400 --> 1:00:28.360 kind of interesting things to her. Right, so we're kind 1:00:28.360 --> 1:00:30.520 of watching, We're you know, we're just kind of watching. 1:00:30.560 --> 1:00:32.919 We're just not doing anything right, and she keeps looking 1:00:32.960 --> 1:00:35.280 over at us, like with the come over and help 1:00:35.360 --> 1:00:37.240 me look, and we just kind of stand there and 1:00:37.280 --> 1:00:38.960 we're just kind of looking at her. And then people 1:00:39.000 --> 1:00:42.200 start saying to us, I think those guys are bothering her, 1:00:42.240 --> 1:00:43.959 why don't you you're gonna go over and say something. 1:00:44.040 --> 1:00:45.640 We're like, well, we ain't gonna let nothing that we 1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:48.640 got an eye on it. We're all good. So after 1:00:48.640 --> 1:00:50.680 about ten minutes or so, she comes over to us 1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:53.120 and she goes and she's funny because you got to 1:00:53.120 --> 1:00:55.400 remember it. She's like eight, I think, just a turn eighteen. 1:00:55.440 --> 1:00:59.280 At that time, it was still very sheltered, very like 1:00:59.360 --> 1:01:02.880 this little girl, and she said, did you see what 1:01:02.920 --> 1:01:05.520 those guys were doing? And we were like, well, they 1:01:05.560 --> 1:01:08.120 were talking to you, Oh my god, but the things 1:01:08.120 --> 1:01:10.520 they were saying, and oh my god, why didn't. 1:01:10.280 --> 1:01:11.160 You come over and help me? 1:01:11.760 --> 1:01:14.640 And Terry said, well, obviously you didn't need any help. 1:01:14.680 --> 1:01:18.960 You're standing right here right now, and she said, oh yeah, 1:01:19.000 --> 1:01:24.280 I guess that's right. So those kind of moments needed 1:01:24.280 --> 1:01:26.840 to happen for her to get to that. But she said, 1:01:26.920 --> 1:01:31.080 I don't like nasty boys. I don't like nasty something something, 1:01:31.120 --> 1:01:34.680 and Terry's like, okay, and that's it. I mean. So 1:01:35.120 --> 1:01:37.280 that was the way. So the hanging out part where 1:01:37.280 --> 1:01:39.080 we weren't working, we said to her, you know, we're 1:01:39.080 --> 1:01:40.080 already working. 1:01:40.280 --> 1:01:42.720 So we need a life experience for you to sing, 1:01:43.240 --> 1:01:45.520 to sing about it exactly, because that's what that was, 1:01:45.560 --> 1:01:49.439 what's gonna make the album. It's good and it's her, yeah, 1:01:49.480 --> 1:01:52.480 And and that was the whole thing. So he doesn't know. 1:01:52.560 --> 1:01:56.520 I'm alive was basically because it was already done when 1:01:56.520 --> 1:01:58.320 we went into the studio. We said, okay, we got 1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:00.680 a song for you, and we just went in and 1:02:01.000 --> 1:02:03.080 sang it. It was already demoed, it was already done, 1:02:03.120 --> 1:02:05.480 and that gave us our insight on what notes she 1:02:05.520 --> 1:02:09.240 could hit, what couldn't she hit, just all kinds of things. 1:02:09.280 --> 1:02:11.000 It's kind of right kind of mic to use on her. 1:02:11.240 --> 1:02:14.600 It was almost like the test ground for her, but 1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:17.880 also a song that we all liked. So from that 1:02:17.960 --> 1:02:21.000 point then everything else kind of jumped off from that. 1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:25.000 How did you Oh, I was gonna say my question 1:02:25.120 --> 1:02:28.680 for you about Janet her background vocals. You talked about 1:02:28.680 --> 1:02:30.160 how you were a big fan of American and all 1:02:30.200 --> 1:02:33.560 that stuff. To me, that was always her superpower, most 1:02:33.560 --> 1:02:35.560 so than even the dancing and all of that. Like, 1:02:35.680 --> 1:02:41.480 her background vocals was always amazing, Right, So did you 1:02:41.520 --> 1:02:43.959 guys did you arrange it? Was it just by ear 1:02:44.200 --> 1:02:46.320 or as a keyboard player? Did you like actually play 1:02:46.360 --> 1:02:48.200 it out and say, okay, this is your note Janet? 1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:52.040 That with Janet I would always do. I would always 1:02:52.080 --> 1:02:55.440 have her sing the notes in the chord, which isn't 1:02:55.640 --> 1:03:00.000 the normal way to stack vocals, because what happens the course, 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:02.040 when you're playing some amount of keyboard, you have notes 1:03:02.080 --> 1:03:03.960 that are dissonant to each other where they're right next 1:03:04.000 --> 1:03:08.320 to yeah, and it always singers are they can't hear that? 1:03:08.480 --> 1:03:10.720 Most of the time it throws them off to hear that, 1:03:11.400 --> 1:03:15.880 and so but we worked up over time. We worked 1:03:15.920 --> 1:03:17.640 up a thing where she would just trust me, like 1:03:17.680 --> 1:03:19.600 I'd give her a note and it would totally sound 1:03:19.920 --> 1:03:20.919 so wrong, but. 1:03:22.640 --> 1:03:25.840 Without using great example, a great example, that's a great example, 1:03:26.480 --> 1:03:30.400 loves you as well. Yeah, oh Jesus Christ. Yeah yeah. 1:03:30.720 --> 1:03:33.360 So so that was the thing. But she would she 1:03:33.440 --> 1:03:35.479 would just do it, and I got a certain point 1:03:35.600 --> 1:03:38.040 she would quit going. She wouldn't even say that doesn't 1:03:38.080 --> 1:03:39.840 sound right. I would just go trust me, and she goes, oh, 1:03:39.840 --> 1:03:42.320 I trust you, I know, and I'd be okay. And 1:03:42.360 --> 1:03:44.600 she also had the stamina where she would stay in 1:03:44.680 --> 1:03:47.600 there for hours and hours and hours, and we'd stack 1:03:47.640 --> 1:03:50.440 every note at least four times, so if it was 1:03:50.440 --> 1:03:53.000 a you know, four times that note at least yeah wait, 1:03:53.320 --> 1:03:57.959 there's no pro tools though, well okay, so no, because 1:03:58.200 --> 1:04:00.000 we didn't start with forty we only had twenty four. 1:04:00.120 --> 1:04:03.760 So what we would do is you would make we 1:04:03.760 --> 1:04:06.520 would take the vocals, but everything would always get bounced 1:04:06.560 --> 1:04:10.040 down on the spot, so we would and it was 1:04:10.280 --> 1:04:13.280 it was always strategic, like you you could you could 1:04:13.360 --> 1:04:16.800 have we'd make a work, we'd make a work tape. 1:04:17.160 --> 1:04:20.320 Remember we're not going off of we're not using Simpty, 1:04:20.400 --> 1:04:23.640 all right, so we so you can. So you could 1:04:23.680 --> 1:04:26.520 do that. You could do the track and let's say 1:04:26.520 --> 1:04:29.120 you used I don't know, nineteen tracks or whatever. You 1:04:29.120 --> 1:04:31.600 could take those two tracks, bounce them to two, bounce 1:04:31.640 --> 1:04:35.000 them to two tracks, right, put them on to a 1:04:35.000 --> 1:04:37.080 half inch tape or whatever. Play the half inch tape 1:04:37.160 --> 1:04:40.440 back to the twenty four track, and now you have 1:04:40.480 --> 1:04:42.240 two tracks. Now that leaves you with twenty two tracks 1:04:42.240 --> 1:04:44.280 to work with technically twenty one because you couldn't go 1:04:44.280 --> 1:04:46.080 on the Simpty track and you weren't supposed to go 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:48.040 to the track next to the Sempty twenty three. But 1:04:48.120 --> 1:04:50.680 we always he still did that rule. Yeah, we broke 1:04:50.720 --> 1:04:53.160 that rule. So anyway, so that would give us a thing. 1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:54.640 So if we did a harmony, so let's say we 1:04:54.680 --> 1:04:58.080 did sixteen tracks of a four part harmony four times 1:04:58.640 --> 1:05:01.360 sixteen tracks, we'd take that harm and he bounced it too, 1:05:01.360 --> 1:05:03.600 two tracks, so now it would just be a stereo mix. 1:05:03.760 --> 1:05:07.880 We couldn't change it, and we would always trust that 1:05:07.960 --> 1:05:11.280 it was good, that it was okay yea. And so 1:05:12.040 --> 1:05:14.040 it was great though, because you couldn't go back and 1:05:14.080 --> 1:05:17.000 do stuff, and normally the decision you made on the 1:05:17.000 --> 1:05:20.040 spot was always the best decision. It wasn't about going 1:05:20.080 --> 1:05:21.760 back and tweaking it and oh we should have done it. 1:05:21.760 --> 1:05:23.200 You know it has a song bit you in the 1:05:23.280 --> 1:05:26.280 ass during the mix down like a damn like h. 1:05:26.520 --> 1:05:31.120 No, actually not really. We had we had an engineer 1:05:31.200 --> 1:05:33.520 back in the day. We had an engine named Tavy 1:05:33.800 --> 1:05:37.600 Motet back when we were doing a song called Heartbreaker 1:05:37.760 --> 1:05:40.600 with Climax, which I'm not even sure of that song actually, yeah, 1:05:40.600 --> 1:05:44.920 I did come out. I think it did, but it 1:05:44.960 --> 1:05:47.600 was on one of those twenty four hour sessions. And 1:05:47.640 --> 1:05:51.960 he decided that he could spot RaSE something on the 1:05:52.280 --> 1:05:54.840 on the tape, on the master tape of a vocal thing, 1:05:55.600 --> 1:05:57.720 and we were like, no, it's okay, Tovy, we can 1:05:57.800 --> 1:05:59.320 just mute it on the board. No, no, I can 1:05:59.360 --> 1:06:01.920 do it. I can do it. And so normally on 1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:04.120 tape what you do is you put the tape into 1:06:04.160 --> 1:06:06.080 the position and then you'd hit record, but you wouldn't 1:06:06.080 --> 1:06:08.120 go play the tape. You just hit record and just 1:06:08.200 --> 1:06:10.960 get rid of that one little spot. He said, no, 1:06:11.000 --> 1:06:13.280 I can do it on the fly. So it's like okay, 1:06:14.280 --> 1:06:17.600 And the word was the word was fresh. 1:06:17.240 --> 1:06:18.120 Let me get this ready. 1:06:21.880 --> 1:06:28.840 So the lyric was a heartbreaker, so fresh right, and 1:06:28.880 --> 1:06:31.320 then there was like a fresh click, so he said, 1:06:31.360 --> 1:06:33.920 I get rid of it. So he goes, we do 1:06:34.000 --> 1:06:39.680 it a heartbreaker, so fresh clicks. I missed it. It's okay, man, 1:06:40.160 --> 1:06:41.640 we can just mute it. No, no, I got it 1:06:42.080 --> 1:06:45.480 a heartbreaker, so fresh click. Oh man, I missed it again. 1:06:45.920 --> 1:06:48.120 Now it's okay, Tobby, really now I got it this 1:06:48.200 --> 1:06:56.480 time a heartbreaker. So I think I got it, and 1:06:56.520 --> 1:06:58.400 we're like, yeah, you got. 1:06:58.200 --> 1:07:01.120 It half of down. 1:07:01.560 --> 1:07:05.720 And it made us change the song so that instead 1:07:05.720 --> 1:07:08.320 of instead of it's saying that, it would say it 1:07:08.360 --> 1:07:10.680 every other time. Well, so we would just go U, 1:07:11.320 --> 1:07:14.360 I'm so good, I'm such a mess, and then we'd 1:07:14.440 --> 1:07:20.920 leave it blank. So I mean so no, but but 1:07:21.160 --> 1:07:22.920 you know that was a crazy mistake and that never 1:07:22.960 --> 1:07:24.680 happened again, and we never worked with Tabby again. 1:07:25.440 --> 1:07:28.840 Wait a minute, wait, you just said something though, So 1:07:30.120 --> 1:07:32.880 if you really didn't believe in Sempty and weren't lining 1:07:32.960 --> 1:07:37.560 up stuff, then how did those cool summer mixes turn 1:07:37.600 --> 1:07:39.400 out so perfect? 1:07:40.280 --> 1:07:41.840 Because we would wild sync. 1:07:42.280 --> 1:07:45.280 I'm a DJ. I could hate you right now, man. 1:07:46.600 --> 1:07:48.480 So so it was Clive. 1:07:48.320 --> 1:07:50.560 The Cool Summer mix Yeah, the Cool Summer Mixes were fun. 1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:52.080 So hell yeah, they were fun. 1:07:52.200 --> 1:07:54.360 Yeah, so we would so we would just take I 1:07:54.440 --> 1:07:56.360 usually would take like the eight oh eight or something 1:07:57.120 --> 1:07:59.439 and I would just sink it. Like so, I would 1:07:59.480 --> 1:08:00.960 just have the eight o eight on a track or 1:08:01.000 --> 1:08:04.520 two tracks or whatever. I'd play the original tape right 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:09.800 and then I'd uh, and then I turned the drum 1:08:09.840 --> 1:08:12.120 machine on at the same time, I'd kind of adjust 1:08:12.120 --> 1:08:16.320 the speed. When it locked up, I'd hit record. When 1:08:16.360 --> 1:08:20.040 it drilled, i'd stop, and then we'd started up again, 1:08:20.080 --> 1:08:22.200 and when it hit and then I'd go in. So 1:08:22.240 --> 1:08:24.080 it just it just was a process. We had it. 1:08:24.120 --> 1:08:29.600 We had it down a DJ. Yeah, I was I 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:32.439 can't do any of that stuff anymore, but but no, 1:08:32.520 --> 1:08:33.040 I can match. 1:08:33.120 --> 1:08:33.639 I can match. 1:08:33.720 --> 1:08:35.200 I can match that kind of stuff. And then we 1:08:35.360 --> 1:08:37.040 go back and then and then you know, just re 1:08:37.240 --> 1:08:41.640 record the keyboards and stuff on that. I'll tell you 1:08:41.640 --> 1:08:46.920 an interesting uh, I'm sorry, every story veers off. The 1:08:46.920 --> 1:08:48.880 Cool Summer Mixes is the reason we ended up working 1:08:48.880 --> 1:08:55.080 with George Michael. So when we did Monkey Monkey, if 1:08:55.120 --> 1:08:57.800 you remember, he had Monkey on the album record right right, 1:08:58.880 --> 1:09:01.880 and he called us, and he said, hey, I want 1:09:01.880 --> 1:09:03.720 you guys to do a remix a monkey and we 1:09:03.760 --> 1:09:06.439 said okay, cool, and we said, well what do you want? 1:09:06.479 --> 1:09:09.160 What are you looking for exactly? He said? He said, Okay, 1:09:09.200 --> 1:09:11.559 you know those cool summer mixes you do, He says, 1:09:11.600 --> 1:09:13.120 you know how you put chords on it, but it 1:09:13.160 --> 1:09:15.360 still stays funky. He said, that's what I was trying 1:09:15.360 --> 1:09:16.960 to do on that record, and every time I tried 1:09:16.960 --> 1:09:19.680 to put chords on it, it wouldn't be funky. And 1:09:19.720 --> 1:09:21.960 we were like, okay, yeah, cool summer xs. Okay, yeah, yeah, 1:09:21.960 --> 1:09:24.040 we got it. We can do that, right. So then 1:09:24.080 --> 1:09:26.640 when he heard what we were doing, he said, oh no, 1:09:26.720 --> 1:09:29.840 I got to re sing it now. And so that's 1:09:29.880 --> 1:09:32.800 how it turned from a remix to a production, and 1:09:32.840 --> 1:09:34.840 that's how it ended up going. If you have the 1:09:34.960 --> 1:09:37.280 version of the album that was made after I don't 1:09:37.320 --> 1:09:41.320 know a million copies or however, they yeah, it had 1:09:41.320 --> 1:09:43.160 our version on it, because that was what he always 1:09:43.240 --> 1:09:44.479 envisioned the song as being. 1:09:44.760 --> 1:09:49.640 And have you heard the Nasty Cool Summer mix they 1:09:49.760 --> 1:09:56.519 released it on the on the talking about the Herbal remix, 1:09:56.760 --> 1:10:03.799 and I was talking about the diamond diamonds. Yeah, the twelve. Okay, 1:10:03.960 --> 1:10:08.679 I'll totally like, yeah, yeah, anyway, yeah, damn this cool 1:10:08.680 --> 1:10:13.519 summer mix. Are there mixes that didn't see. 1:10:13.360 --> 1:10:18.240 The light of day that you guys did, No, I don't. 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:20.680 I don't think so, so I think I mean we 1:10:20.720 --> 1:10:22.599 pretty much did them. We always do. I mean, I 1:10:22.680 --> 1:10:24.519 love doing it. It was always a lot of fun, 1:10:24.640 --> 1:10:29.519 and I always liked the idea of it was really 1:10:29.560 --> 1:10:32.400 two chains of thought, because sometimes remixes back in the day, 1:10:32.400 --> 1:10:35.160 your remix was just you know, the drums would be 1:10:35.160 --> 1:10:37.400 fatter or would it would literally be a remix where 1:10:37.400 --> 1:10:39.599 you wouldn't really be changing a lot, but just more 1:10:40.120 --> 1:10:42.840 the sounds echo here you do that. 1:10:43.120 --> 1:10:45.240 But I felt that was the best lesson you guys 1:10:45.320 --> 1:10:47.719 learned from Prince, because the first time I heard someone 1:10:47.760 --> 1:10:53.599 totally like that little Corvette remix that totally, I was like, Oh, 1:10:53.640 --> 1:10:56.000 you put something in the relative minor and make it 1:10:56.160 --> 1:10:58.720 a whole new song, and that's sort of thing. And 1:10:58.720 --> 1:11:03.200 that's what you guys were doing to like those songs, 1:11:03.240 --> 1:11:07.000 like totally making them new again, right, which I thought, Okay, now, 1:11:07.000 --> 1:11:09.000 maybe she'll do this in concert that way and that 1:11:09.120 --> 1:11:09.639 sort of thing. 1:11:09.920 --> 1:11:12.479 Sometimes she did, Actually sometimes she did, which was kind 1:11:12.479 --> 1:11:15.880 of cool, but no, I I enjoyed doing that. It 1:11:15.960 --> 1:11:18.000 was just a cool creative way of doing it. I 1:11:18.040 --> 1:11:20.840 remember we did, like one of my favorite ones was 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:23.360 Crucial Edition. 1:11:24.120 --> 1:11:31.240 Yes, Yes, Yes remix, Yes, EDI re released, they just 1:11:31.240 --> 1:11:31.880 put out yep. 1:11:32.120 --> 1:11:32.320 Yeah. 1:11:32.360 --> 1:11:34.679 See, I like that kind of stuff. Was always really cool. 1:11:35.000 --> 1:11:37.760 That one where Ll wrote Mike Bivens rhyme and he 1:11:37.800 --> 1:11:39.800 gave him a shout out for the Okay, I have. 1:11:39.760 --> 1:11:42.400 Two things we need to talk about really quick. One, uh, 1:11:42.720 --> 1:11:45.439 my favorite remix you guys ever did was twelve inches 1:11:45.720 --> 1:11:48.920 Schrelle's Fragile Handle with Care with the extended percussion out, 1:11:49.320 --> 1:11:51.200 which is a gift from God, Thank you very much. 1:11:53.040 --> 1:11:55.679 Second New Edition Heartbreak album. 1:11:55.720 --> 1:11:59.639 The interlude, what is what is Ralph saying your jam 1:11:59.760 --> 1:12:01.040 hit the button? 1:12:01.520 --> 1:12:02.000 Now? 1:12:02.200 --> 1:12:04.280 Okay, So what. 1:12:04.160 --> 1:12:08.440 He's saying is. 1:12:08.760 --> 1:12:14.640 He's saying the ALPS button, the Alps button, right, But 1:12:15.120 --> 1:12:23.840 what it actually is is the OX But that because 1:12:23.880 --> 1:12:26.800 they never called it the OX button. They just knew 1:12:26.840 --> 1:12:29.519 in the APPS button, so they knew in the middle 1:12:30.600 --> 1:12:34.040 of the board there was the button that you pressed 1:12:34.160 --> 1:12:36.839 when you wanted to hear it loud over the speakers 1:12:37.360 --> 1:12:40.360 whatever we were mixing, and there was this button and 1:12:40.439 --> 1:12:42.400 it said OX on it, and that was what it was. 1:12:42.439 --> 1:12:44.759 You pressed that button and then everything came back loud 1:12:44.840 --> 1:12:47.800 and on the big speakers. So that was the whole thing. 1:12:47.840 --> 1:12:50.639 So every record when we got done, they would say 1:12:50.720 --> 1:12:52.800 and it just turned into this kind of running thing. 1:12:52.840 --> 1:12:55.120 And we just said, oh, let's put that on on 1:12:55.160 --> 1:12:57.320 that on the record because it's just kind of funny. 1:12:57.320 --> 1:13:03.559 But you tops, but wait now, okay, okay, okay, I 1:13:04.080 --> 1:13:05.880 see now, I gotta hear. 1:13:06.400 --> 1:13:09.880 Jill Mike, don't even sweat it. Jim hit the button, 1:13:10.280 --> 1:13:13.639 No hit the album. 1:13:16.640 --> 1:13:19.320 So that's funny. But no, we we we love doing 1:13:19.760 --> 1:13:22.960 once again. That was an album. The great thing about 1:13:23.120 --> 1:13:26.120 that album we talked about Hearsaying. We didn't talk about it, 1:13:26.160 --> 1:13:29.560 but we talked about it offline. Those records. We controlled 1:13:29.600 --> 1:13:34.679 those records, the sequencing of the records, all of the songs, 1:13:34.680 --> 1:13:36.200 even if we didn't do them. We were like the 1:13:36.240 --> 1:13:40.720 executive producers. And so the ability to put to humanize 1:13:40.760 --> 1:13:45.040 those records by putting little things like that into it, 1:13:46.120 --> 1:13:48.799 or the interludes on Hearsay where they're at a party, 1:13:48.840 --> 1:13:51.639 and the whole thing. You know what I hate, Yes, 1:13:51.680 --> 1:13:53.519 I hate to be the bear bad news exactly. So 1:13:53.640 --> 1:13:57.200 I mean that to me was why those albums they 1:13:57.240 --> 1:14:00.559 were actual albums to me, and that I was always 1:14:00.880 --> 1:14:03.160 like a running concept exactly, and that was that was 1:14:03.200 --> 1:14:06.960 always the goal, and the sequencing was always really really important. 1:14:07.000 --> 1:14:10.799 And at a certain point when everything became very piecemeal 1:14:10.840 --> 1:14:12.400 and you did your one song and you really had 1:14:12.400 --> 1:14:16.040 no say so. I I never liked the idea of that, 1:14:16.080 --> 1:14:17.559 but I mean it is what it is. You just 1:14:17.600 --> 1:14:19.120 do what you're You're asked to do two songs, so 1:14:19.200 --> 1:14:20.120 you do your two songs. 1:14:20.120 --> 1:14:22.479 But I like the idea of I always wanted to 1:14:22.479 --> 1:14:27.360 know why with the Human Leagues record, was it that 1:14:27.400 --> 1:14:29.920 concept not allowed to fly? Like? Was that more of 1:14:29.920 --> 1:14:31.720 a tug of war situation or just. 1:14:32.840 --> 1:14:37.519 Human League was interesting because there was a lot of uh, 1:14:37.680 --> 1:14:40.600 well okay, So first of all, Human League was aw, 1:14:40.800 --> 1:14:47.240 you guys get the swing. They were they were up 1:14:47.280 --> 1:14:49.559 for anything. I mean that that. They were very cool, 1:14:49.600 --> 1:14:53.080 I must say, uh and phil Oki, particularly the lead singer, 1:14:53.439 --> 1:14:58.040 was amazing. Dude, amazing dude. You guys were there to 1:14:58.080 --> 1:15:00.400 do it or no, they flew to us. So it 1:15:00.520 --> 1:15:04.320 was weird. So you got these guys coming from England, 1:15:04.360 --> 1:15:07.200 not even London, England, but Sheffield, England, which is you know, 1:15:07.880 --> 1:15:11.479 small town coming to Minneapolis and the dead of Winner 1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:15.839 to work with you know, two blokes, two black blokes, 1:15:15.880 --> 1:15:16.640 I guess. 1:15:17.000 --> 1:15:17.200 You know. 1:15:17.680 --> 1:15:20.080 It was a bit of a culture shock, I guess, 1:15:20.120 --> 1:15:26.519 I would say. And the underlying kind of elephant in 1:15:26.560 --> 1:15:30.479 the room that whole record was that Phil, the lead singer, 1:15:30.600 --> 1:15:32.640 was going out with one of the girls in the 1:15:32.720 --> 1:15:38.800 group and so I think it was Joe Anne, I 1:15:38.800 --> 1:15:43.360 think the darkhaired girl. Okay, So it set up this 1:15:43.479 --> 1:15:46.519 interesting thing because they had already written a bunch of 1:15:46.560 --> 1:15:48.599 the songs themselves and they just wanted us to produce 1:15:48.640 --> 1:15:50.599 them and that was great, but then they wanted us 1:15:50.600 --> 1:15:53.120 to add our own songs to them, so it was like, okay, cool. 1:15:53.800 --> 1:15:56.920 And that was the first album that Steve Hodge actually 1:15:57.040 --> 1:16:02.280 engineered for us, because we engineered the Control album basically ourselves, 1:16:04.240 --> 1:16:06.519 and Steve kind of fixed it because we recorded it 1:16:06.600 --> 1:16:09.479 totally wrong when we did it, but he fixed it. 1:16:09.520 --> 1:16:10.920 But he said, I'm gonna come up and show you 1:16:10.920 --> 1:16:13.320 guys how to record. So that Human League is actually 1:16:13.560 --> 1:16:16.040 sonically is probably one of our best stubs because it's 1:16:16.280 --> 1:16:19.919 really done well. But the idea of creating was interesting 1:16:20.000 --> 1:16:22.120 because you know, we had the songs. They were down 1:16:22.160 --> 1:16:26.640 with the songs, but in particular Human. Terry did the 1:16:26.680 --> 1:16:29.000 vocal on that song, produced a vocal on it, and 1:16:29.200 --> 1:16:31.439 it was like a week at least a week of 1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:35.040 every day because think about you almost have to unteach 1:16:35.080 --> 1:16:38.080 Phil how to sing, because Phil was always very robotic 1:16:38.120 --> 1:16:39.160 and always very stiff. 1:16:39.240 --> 1:16:44.720 And I'm saying you made them sound human, yeah, human. 1:16:45.760 --> 1:16:47.559 But that took It took a lot of so Terry, 1:16:47.600 --> 1:16:50.320 that was a Terry Lewis masterpiece to me. And I 1:16:50.360 --> 1:16:56.200 remember hearing the finished vocal and just going, man, that's amazing. 1:16:56.240 --> 1:16:59.000 And I remember watching his face as he listened to 1:16:59.200 --> 1:17:01.519 because after he did vocal, than Terry comped the vocal 1:17:01.560 --> 1:17:03.960 and everything, and I remember watching his face and he 1:17:04.120 --> 1:17:08.720 just was like amazed how we sounded right. And so 1:17:10.000 --> 1:17:11.840 we went and and when we did the backgrounds, actually 1:17:11.880 --> 1:17:15.960 the backgrounds on the song is Lisa Keith and Terry. 1:17:16.160 --> 1:17:18.680 They're the ones that are doing the ooh human. It's 1:17:18.680 --> 1:17:20.760 a combination of those guys. Because Terry used to also 1:17:20.800 --> 1:17:22.719 be mister background. We used to call him mister background. 1:17:23.160 --> 1:17:29.160 So anyway, I remember we played it and film was like, Wow, 1:17:29.200 --> 1:17:31.000 that's really good. We were all like, wow, that's great. 1:17:31.040 --> 1:17:33.439 That sounds great. And I remember the girls being like, 1:17:35.080 --> 1:17:39.160 who's that other girl singing on the track and we said, oh, 1:17:39.240 --> 1:17:41.920 it's h Yeah. We said, oh that's Lisa Keith. 1:17:43.360 --> 1:17:43.599 Hmm. 1:17:43.840 --> 1:17:44.760 Not sure. We like that. 1:17:45.720 --> 1:17:46.280 Not sure, we. 1:17:46.280 --> 1:17:48.880 Fancy that such and such and such and such what 1:17:49.240 --> 1:17:51.519 you know, we we didn't get a chance to sing, 1:17:51.560 --> 1:17:54.679 and you know, whatever whatever whatever, and we were like, okay, well, 1:17:54.680 --> 1:17:57.240 you know, we'll figure it out tomorrow or whatever whatever whatever. 1:17:57.360 --> 1:18:02.040 So they left and Terry was like, they can't sing 1:18:02.080 --> 1:18:04.880 this so and we're like, yeah, we know. I mean 1:18:04.920 --> 1:18:07.360 it's not that they couldn't sing, but for this particular 1:18:07.400 --> 1:18:09.880 song that texting them we're trying to do, it didn't fit. 1:18:11.360 --> 1:18:13.240 So that's when Terry came up with the idea, is 1:18:13.240 --> 1:18:17.240 I'm going to give him a spoken part. That was 1:18:18.360 --> 1:18:20.280 the Olive Branch. So we're gonna do this. We're gonna 1:18:20.280 --> 1:18:24.519 do the spoken part. But before the Olive branch happened, Oh, 1:18:24.760 --> 1:18:30.000 the next day, Phil. The next day, Phil came back 1:18:30.400 --> 1:18:34.160 to the studio and everybody was with him, but only 1:18:34.200 --> 1:18:38.120 he came in the room and he kind of walks 1:18:38.120 --> 1:18:39.680 in the room and he has this look on his 1:18:39.760 --> 1:18:42.599 face and we said, what's up, Phil, how's it going. 1:18:43.280 --> 1:18:47.200 He says good, good, and uh, we said what's going on? 1:18:48.040 --> 1:18:53.880 And he goes, I just have to say that we're 1:18:53.920 --> 1:18:58.679 against the other girl being on the track. And Terry 1:18:58.720 --> 1:19:02.080 and I said huh, and he says, I just have 1:19:02.120 --> 1:19:04.960 to say we're against that other girl being on the track. 1:19:13.560 --> 1:19:18.040 So me and Terry look at each other and he 1:19:18.080 --> 1:19:24.840 says it again. And then we said, oh, oh, okay, 1:19:26.880 --> 1:19:31.639 you just have to say you're against the girl being 1:19:31.640 --> 1:19:36.040 on the track. And he says, yes, I have to say. 1:19:36.360 --> 1:19:38.320 I mean, we said we got you, we got you. 1:19:38.360 --> 1:19:40.200 Don't worry about it. We got it because we know 1:19:40.240 --> 1:19:42.920 what went home. He went home with the girl, you know, 1:19:43.280 --> 1:19:45.320 to the hotel and she was in his year all 1:19:45.400 --> 1:19:46.680 night or whatever the heck it was. 1:19:47.080 --> 1:19:49.880 They didn't get they didn't get smoking mirrors. Back then 1:19:52.400 --> 1:19:54.479 I would have known. I would have not known any 1:19:54.520 --> 1:19:55.880 different than you know. 1:19:56.400 --> 1:19:58.120 So it was. It was very funny. So he did 1:19:58.120 --> 1:20:00.360 his thing. It's like, okay, fill your off the hook. 1:20:00.400 --> 1:20:01.920 You told us what you needed to tell us, what 1:20:01.960 --> 1:20:05.439 she said, you tell that's great. We came in, Uh 1:20:05.680 --> 1:20:08.640 we did you know, Terry showed the girl joeanned I 1:20:08.680 --> 1:20:10.320 think did the part, and she said, here you go, 1:20:10.479 --> 1:20:12.920 this is the part you're doing right, We're done with 1:20:12.960 --> 1:20:16.559 the song. Song's totally done. I don't know at that 1:20:16.600 --> 1:20:19.599 point whether they beefed to the record company or whoever 1:20:19.640 --> 1:20:24.120 it was, and we just said okay, and we've I 1:20:24.120 --> 1:20:26.719 don't think to this. I don't remember us ever ever 1:20:26.800 --> 1:20:29.360 doing this on any other project, certainly not to that point. 1:20:29.960 --> 1:20:34.160 But we just said, here's our thing. The songs that 1:20:34.520 --> 1:20:38.160 they brought that they did, they can mix them however 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:40.120 the heck they want to do it. They got it. 1:20:40.280 --> 1:20:43.479 The songs that we did were mixing exactly the way 1:20:43.520 --> 1:20:46.599 we want them. And as far as human goes, if 1:20:46.600 --> 1:20:48.200 we don't get to do it the way we want 1:20:48.240 --> 1:20:50.120 to do it, we're just taking it off the record. 1:20:50.439 --> 1:20:53.080 And they were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, 1:20:53.240 --> 1:21:01.840 you really did hit the But but that might have 1:21:01.920 --> 1:21:04.880 been the only time that that happened. And it was 1:21:04.880 --> 1:21:07.160 interesting because I've read some articles where Phil has talked 1:21:07.160 --> 1:21:09.080 about making the record now and he says we were 1:21:09.120 --> 1:21:11.760 puppets and whatever. He has a whole different kind of 1:21:11.800 --> 1:21:15.000 recollection of it than we do. And you know, Hey, 1:21:15.240 --> 1:21:18.400 that's the way, you know. But it's like you hired 1:21:18.479 --> 1:21:21.960 us to make your record. You had made your record 1:21:22.200 --> 1:21:25.360 basically as demos, and you wanted us to do it 1:21:25.400 --> 1:21:27.599 our way. So basically it was like taking what they 1:21:27.640 --> 1:21:30.240 did and then I would play the parts or I 1:21:30.240 --> 1:21:32.720 would have them play the parts or whatever it was. 1:21:32.760 --> 1:21:34.920 But it was just you hired us. We did what 1:21:34.960 --> 1:21:38.200 you hired us to do. There was no puppet anything 1:21:38.439 --> 1:21:40.520 to me, and that was the only. 1:21:41.200 --> 1:21:43.160 So I can assume that they didn't write I Need 1:21:43.200 --> 1:21:45.599 You Love It? Oh no, no, no, But did they 1:21:45.640 --> 1:21:47.799 write the last song, the song that closes the record 1:21:48.000 --> 1:21:49.520 nothing else even matters. 1:21:49.280 --> 1:21:53.679 Or loves all the matter? Yea, we wrote did okay? Yeah? 1:21:53.840 --> 1:21:56.519 So yeah. But I was going to say, like, if 1:21:56.560 --> 1:21:59.160 you're given the Human League and you know their history, 1:22:01.520 --> 1:22:04.640 it's it's very telling that you really brought them to 1:22:05.160 --> 1:22:07.840 your side of the fence, brought them down to our world, 1:22:08.120 --> 1:22:11.479 as opposed to because I would have figured that you 1:22:11.560 --> 1:22:15.040 guys would have been like all right, announced, all right. 1:22:15.120 --> 1:22:17.960 So Prince's concept with the family was you wanna get 1:22:18.000 --> 1:22:21.160 some of that durand de Ram money, right, You didn't 1:22:21.160 --> 1:22:23.960 think at one point like yo, now's really time for 1:22:24.040 --> 1:22:27.640 us to show cash all the all the all the 1:22:27.680 --> 1:22:31.040 Middle America, like all the Middle America AM radio shit 1:22:31.120 --> 1:22:34.479 that we've learned, we can now use them as the 1:22:34.560 --> 1:22:35.200 calling card. 1:22:35.439 --> 1:22:39.720 But no, because we didn't feel that they that was 1:22:39.800 --> 1:22:43.080 what they necessarily were. I mean, they had obviously big records, 1:22:43.080 --> 1:22:44.640 but there was a reason that they had come to 1:22:44.720 --> 1:22:47.479 us anyway. To me, even with the big records that 1:22:47.520 --> 1:22:49.960 they had, because I remember Fascination was one of my 1:22:50.080 --> 1:22:51.759 I mean, Don't You Want Me was great, but Fascination 1:22:51.920 --> 1:22:52.439 was my record. 1:22:52.479 --> 1:22:52.880 I love that. 1:22:53.160 --> 1:22:55.479 Yeah, So to me, the fact that they were coming 1:22:55.520 --> 1:22:57.639 to us was You're coming to us for a reason, 1:22:57.680 --> 1:23:00.760 and it's not to make a pop radio it's to 1:23:00.840 --> 1:23:01.759 make I'm. 1:23:01.600 --> 1:23:04.719 Just saying, like a song like I Need You Loving. 1:23:05.000 --> 1:23:06.040 Yeah. 1:23:06.520 --> 1:23:08.479 You don't think Alex would have tore the ship out 1:23:08.479 --> 1:23:08.600 of it? 1:23:09.680 --> 1:23:12.519 Of course he would have. Yeah, okay, yeah, I agree, 1:23:12.600 --> 1:23:15.080 I agree with that. But it was fun. They listen, 1:23:15.200 --> 1:23:17.679 they we played them stuff, and they picked the stuff 1:23:17.720 --> 1:23:20.040 they liked. They liked that song, they loved they loved 1:23:20.040 --> 1:23:21.960 that record, and we like the idea of doing a 1:23:22.040 --> 1:23:24.000 record like that on them because it's not the kind 1:23:24.040 --> 1:23:26.439 of record you would expect you know, to hear from them. 1:23:26.520 --> 1:23:29.719 Yeah, I did not expect that. 1:23:30.040 --> 1:23:31.080 Totally did not expect that. 1:23:31.439 --> 1:23:34.479 Me and Zoe we covered humans some years back on 1:23:34.520 --> 1:23:36.400 the on our eighties record because. 1:23:36.920 --> 1:23:55.280 That's right so with It's it's weird though, because it's 1:23:55.320 --> 1:24:01.400 like I felt like Control was your most important record, 1:24:02.479 --> 1:24:06.680 but I actually feel like Heartbreak was your make or 1:24:06.680 --> 1:24:12.120 break record, because what that allowed you to do was 1:24:12.240 --> 1:24:18.320 really crossed the bridge into what young people you know 1:24:19.000 --> 1:24:23.920 are into, which you know, not even I don't even 1:24:23.960 --> 1:24:27.040 consider it as like, oh can jamn't lowis handle new 1:24:27.120 --> 1:24:31.360 jack swing, but more or less like the standard of it, 1:24:31.520 --> 1:24:34.840 you know what I mean? Like it, I felt like 1:24:34.920 --> 1:24:37.280 that was a real make or break record for you 1:24:37.520 --> 1:24:43.879 that allowed you to then grab folks that are even younger, 1:24:43.920 --> 1:24:46.559 Like did you see that did you even see that 1:24:46.640 --> 1:24:48.800 as a challenge or was it just like, Okay, well 1:24:48.840 --> 1:24:50.400 we're just getting new addition, And. 1:24:51.760 --> 1:24:53.760 Yeah, I think we just thought we'd just were just 1:24:53.800 --> 1:24:55.920 do a new addition. Like it's like in the moment, 1:24:56.240 --> 1:24:58.880 I don't think it's easy to look back historically and 1:24:58.960 --> 1:25:02.600 go and you know that that was some sort of 1:25:02.600 --> 1:25:04.559 turning point. I mean, it was the first time that 1:25:04.640 --> 1:25:09.960 we really it was probably the first time we really 1:25:10.000 --> 1:25:13.080 adopted a lot of hip hop into what we were doing, 1:25:13.200 --> 1:25:15.200 or at least a lot of that kind of sound 1:25:15.320 --> 1:25:16.680 and a lot of you know. 1:25:16.840 --> 1:25:19.360 Was it a discussion between you two, like, Okay, now 1:25:20.040 --> 1:25:23.680 our straight up funk might be dated by eighty eight, 1:25:23.840 --> 1:25:27.519 eighty nine. We gotta figure out what's going on in 1:25:27.520 --> 1:25:30.000 you Jack swing and that sort of thing, Like what 1:25:30.080 --> 1:25:31.840 was your impression like when you first heard the Guy 1:25:31.920 --> 1:25:35.439 record and the Key Sweat record and love at. 1:25:35.320 --> 1:25:39.920 First to listen, absolute love. Matter of fact, I remember 1:25:39.960 --> 1:25:43.280 having a conversation when the Key Sweat record came out. 1:25:43.439 --> 1:25:48.680 I remember having a conversation with Babyface about that. We 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:52.400 were at a club somewhere, and I remember we were 1:25:52.400 --> 1:25:53.920 talking about I said, man, you heard this dude, Key 1:25:53.960 --> 1:25:57.000 Sweat Man, and he was like, oh yeah, yeah, I 1:25:57.040 --> 1:25:57.639 love that record. 1:25:57.640 --> 1:25:58.280 I love that record. 1:25:58.320 --> 1:26:01.000 That record sounds like y'all's record because it's because it 1:26:01.040 --> 1:26:03.160 was if you if you think about it. To me, 1:26:03.600 --> 1:26:05.400 the New Jack Swing record, now, I don't know the 1:26:05.400 --> 1:26:07.760 first New Jack Swing record, but the first for me, 1:26:07.840 --> 1:26:09.759 one of the first New Jack Swing records was actually 1:26:09.880 --> 1:26:17.960 nasty and the kind of fluty string sound on that 1:26:18.520 --> 1:26:21.680 to me, is what I won her was but they 1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:25.960 were using Teddy was using more kids. Yeah, but that 1:26:26.200 --> 1:26:29.360 was that same thing. And I remember we were talking 1:26:29.360 --> 1:26:31.880 about that and and I remember Facer might have been 1:26:32.040 --> 1:26:35.280 La said, well, you know, Keith's cool, but you know 1:26:35.320 --> 1:26:37.920 who the real dude on that record is. This is 1:26:37.960 --> 1:26:41.960 this kid, Teddy Riley. He's like the dude. And we're like, oh, really, 1:26:42.240 --> 1:26:44.559 who's it? He produced the record and we were like, 1:26:44.600 --> 1:26:47.840 oh shit, okay, So we went then out of Teddy 1:26:47.920 --> 1:26:51.600 Riley quest at that point and trying to find you know, 1:26:51.720 --> 1:26:53.639 other you know, more records that he had done because 1:26:53.720 --> 1:26:57.360 it was just still brand new. But that wasn't That 1:26:57.439 --> 1:27:00.880 was an amazing record, an amazing album two. I mean 1:27:01.560 --> 1:27:06.559 so yeah, No, we love that. We've always embraced pretty 1:27:06.640 --> 1:27:09.680 much what's out there. We've never really had the attitude 1:27:09.920 --> 1:27:12.479 of I mean, we certainly have things we personally like 1:27:12.560 --> 1:27:14.679 and don't like, but we've never had the attitude of. 1:27:14.800 --> 1:27:18.280 You didn't scoff at some of the patches, like some 1:27:18.320 --> 1:27:23.960 of those like Stanley Brown cheesy saxophone, like I think 1:27:24.000 --> 1:27:26.920 of the saxophone like the greatest love of all. Yeah, 1:27:27.200 --> 1:27:31.240 like like you weren't scoffing at some of the patches, 1:27:31.400 --> 1:27:34.720 like all right, it was a little amateurish, you know. 1:27:35.880 --> 1:27:37.160 No, well I don't think so. 1:27:37.240 --> 1:27:40.200 I think patches were always classy. 1:27:40.360 --> 1:27:43.599 Like you guys always use just presets though, right, Like, yeah, 1:27:43.640 --> 1:27:45.800 I was. I was a big preset guy. I said 1:27:45.840 --> 1:27:48.360 in an article a long time ago and Keyboard magazine 1:27:48.840 --> 1:27:52.120 that somebody would give me a keyboard because because companies 1:27:52.120 --> 1:27:54.439 would start was at that point where people would just 1:27:54.479 --> 1:27:57.840 give us keyboards, right, and they go, man, this one's 1:27:58.080 --> 1:28:00.320 this one's great, man. And the great thing about it, this, man, 1:28:00.360 --> 1:28:02.439 you can really tweak the sounds. And I said, I 1:28:02.479 --> 1:28:06.559 don't want to tweak sounds. Somebody's getting paid a bunch 1:28:06.600 --> 1:28:08.800 of money to put really great sounds in this. I 1:28:08.800 --> 1:28:11.360 shouldn't have to tweak it. I should go through the presets. 1:28:11.479 --> 1:28:14.639 And when I go through the presets and I don't 1:28:14.640 --> 1:28:17.599 come up with a song idea, that keyboard is going back. 1:28:18.280 --> 1:28:20.200 You know, so if I get so, if I get 1:28:20.200 --> 1:28:25.040 a keyboard, like so, we're you know. Uh. Probably one 1:28:25.080 --> 1:28:28.920 of my favorite all time was in Sonic. And you know, 1:28:28.960 --> 1:28:32.639 in Sonic's funny because in Sonic got no respect as 1:28:32.680 --> 1:28:38.840 a keyboard company. Anne, but control the horn hits the 1:28:38.880 --> 1:28:44.280 horn hits Son. When I think of you, mirage the 1:28:44.360 --> 1:28:48.280 sound on Nasty, the goong goom going all that, mirage 1:28:48.560 --> 1:28:53.160 the little flutie sound on Nasty, mirage the Janet Jackson's signature. 1:28:54.240 --> 1:28:56.080 Really because I was really. 1:28:58.120 --> 1:29:01.680 So, I said in an article I just mentioned, I said, oh, yeah, 1:29:01.720 --> 1:29:04.320 that's a mirage, like. 1:29:04.240 --> 1:29:05.479 I could have those noses. 1:29:05.560 --> 1:29:08.639 Yeah, they're actually floppy. This because they're samples. They're floppy. 1:29:09.520 --> 1:29:10.639 D'Angel probably got this. 1:29:13.000 --> 1:29:13.479 Just wait for that. 1:29:13.479 --> 1:29:15.120 They're not bag yeah, can't right. 1:29:15.640 --> 1:29:17.759 So I mean that was the thing. So that keyboard 1:29:17.800 --> 1:29:22.679 inspired there would be wouldn't be nasty without that sound. Okay, 1:29:22.720 --> 1:29:24.920 so these the keyboard inspired that sound. So I was 1:29:24.920 --> 1:29:28.720 a sonic keyboard fan just from that. I remember they 1:29:28.720 --> 1:29:30.720 sent us a whole bunch of other keyboards, but the 1:29:30.760 --> 1:29:32.760 one they sent us was this keyboard called it I 1:29:32.760 --> 1:29:37.000 think it was called a MR seventy six And not 1:29:37.120 --> 1:29:41.720 to skip around, but velvet rope. Ninety percent of that 1:29:41.920 --> 1:29:46.840 is MR seventy six keyboard. The drum loops, all the 1:29:46.920 --> 1:29:50.639 road sounds, all the the use, all the stock stuff. 1:29:50.840 --> 1:29:55.120 I use all the stock stuff, yes, because to me crazy, yeah, 1:29:55.120 --> 1:29:59.240 but the thing is to me is obviously and did 1:29:59.320 --> 1:30:01.360 not and I can't diminished it. I mean I can't 1:30:01.520 --> 1:30:05.320 not diminish it. I can't put enough importance on Steve 1:30:05.320 --> 1:30:08.400 Hodge mixed it. So Steve Hodge made it sound the 1:30:08.400 --> 1:30:11.439 best that could sound. But a lot of stuff we 1:30:11.520 --> 1:30:14.160 talked about, Uh, let's see body that loves You we 1:30:14.240 --> 1:30:16.799 mentioned earlier. I'm trying to think of another song anytime, 1:30:16.840 --> 1:30:21.040 any place. For instance. Part of it is the way 1:30:21.080 --> 1:30:26.679 that you play the patches. You know, a sax patch 1:30:26.720 --> 1:30:31.040 can sound totally cheesy if somebody plays it, if they 1:30:31.080 --> 1:30:33.080 don't play it like a sax player, like I'll tell 1:30:33.080 --> 1:30:36.080 you that one. I'll give you one. That's the way 1:30:36.120 --> 1:30:39.519 love goes. So the the guitar part that goes bank 1:30:39.680 --> 1:30:43.760 bank bink right, No, it's a S three. 1:30:47.800 --> 1:30:49.280 I don't even have a noise for that. 1:30:50.200 --> 1:30:50.759 I'm sorry. 1:30:50.920 --> 1:30:51.799 This is all I got. 1:30:54.920 --> 1:30:58.960 My really Yeah. So, but but the way you play it, 1:30:59.000 --> 1:31:00.880 if you played like it, yeah, but if you play 1:31:00.880 --> 1:31:03.080 it like a if you played like that's a keyboard, 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:07.960 yeah yeah. And so if you somebody, if you play 1:31:08.000 --> 1:31:10.880 it like a guitar player would play it. And see 1:31:10.880 --> 1:31:14.000 that's where Terry would come in because Terry, if I 1:31:14.080 --> 1:31:17.400 did something like that, He'd say, guitar wouldn't play it 1:31:17.439 --> 1:31:19.320 like that, or bass player wouldn't play it like that. 1:31:19.760 --> 1:31:22.160 And so he always kept me so whenever I played 1:31:22.200 --> 1:31:25.120 him a track and I did like guitar, my little 1:31:25.160 --> 1:31:28.639 fake guitar stuff on it, if he said, oh man, 1:31:28.680 --> 1:31:31.519 who did you get to play guitar? I knew I 1:31:31.560 --> 1:31:34.840 had something. So anytime any places one where there's kind 1:31:34.840 --> 1:31:37.960 of sounds like a jazz guitar, this goes bl it 1:31:38.000 --> 1:31:45.519 sounds like a like a. 1:31:39.640 --> 1:31:48.960 H I was thinking of Ronnie he just passed away. Yeah, 1:31:49.080 --> 1:32:03.800 oh no, no, not even Ronnie Foster from London told 1:32:03.840 --> 1:32:08.840 me from Damn you got us. 1:32:09.240 --> 1:32:12.240 Yeah, Ronnie Jordan's. 1:32:13.160 --> 1:32:24.479 I don't know Ronnie Jordan's keep saying he passed away. Yeah. 1:32:25.160 --> 1:32:28.439 I thought, like, you guys have Ronnie Jordan or somebody that. 1:32:28.920 --> 1:32:32.600 Know every like on that particular song. If I'm not mistaken, 1:32:32.720 --> 1:32:35.200 I think every instrument on that song is from the 1:32:35.200 --> 1:32:39.400 same keyboard and it's all it's all uh, it's all 1:32:39.400 --> 1:32:42.519 stock sounds. I'll give you one more like that. 1:32:42.720 --> 1:32:51.439 If no guitars on it, Wow, just think of the opening. 1:32:52.760 --> 1:32:57.080 The guitar. Okay, I can put the whaling guitar guitar. Okay, 1:32:57.160 --> 1:33:00.439 so you kind of you you mentioned something which tells 1:33:00.479 --> 1:33:03.040 me that there's still a level of respect between you two. 1:33:04.439 --> 1:33:09.680 But what song have you two done and which it 1:33:09.960 --> 1:33:15.799 could have gone to humanly confrontational levels? Have you two ever. 1:33:15.880 --> 1:33:18.479 Argued Terry and I? Yes, No? 1:33:18.960 --> 1:33:19.200 What? 1:33:19.800 --> 1:33:21.400 No? Have you ever ever this fought? 1:33:21.880 --> 1:33:26.719 No, not even close. We haven't even raised We've never 1:33:27.120 --> 1:33:29.520 we've never even raised our voices at anything. 1:33:29.520 --> 1:33:33.679 At least passive aggressive, like we're passive aggressive, like POKEM 1:33:33.720 --> 1:33:34.719 in the eye or anything. 1:33:39.640 --> 1:33:43.840 No, we never have. It's you know, it's a it's 1:33:43.840 --> 1:33:48.360 a unique relationship because it's over the years it's just 1:33:48.439 --> 1:33:52.680 kind of evolved into. First of all, there's we're not 1:33:52.760 --> 1:33:54.800 joined at the hip. There's a thought that we're joined 1:33:54.840 --> 1:33:57.320 at the hip and we do everything together. And I 1:33:57.360 --> 1:34:00.680 think if we did, there would probably be more of 1:34:00.720 --> 1:34:02.720 a you know, a friction or something that could just 1:34:02.760 --> 1:34:05.920 happen just because of being in proximity to somebody so much. 1:34:06.840 --> 1:34:12.200 But we live different lives. We have you know for instance, 1:34:13.760 --> 1:34:16.439 uh I you know, well, here's a good example. I 1:34:16.520 --> 1:34:19.120 do an interview, although Terry's actually under under the weather today, 1:34:19.120 --> 1:34:24.040 but I like talking music in that and Terry does too, 1:34:24.840 --> 1:34:28.040 but not to the degree I do, you know, but 1:34:28.160 --> 1:34:29.080 it's what makes. 1:34:28.880 --> 1:34:30.920 Me be out after an hour have this. 1:34:31.280 --> 1:34:32.720 Yeah, oh yeah, he would have been. He would have 1:34:32.720 --> 1:34:36.160 been long on long. He would have actually, he would 1:34:36.240 --> 1:34:43.160 he would probably enjoy. Well, no, he wouldn't, but he 1:34:43.160 --> 1:34:47.479 wouldn't no, no, but he he, he would enjoy. He 1:34:47.479 --> 1:34:49.400 would enjoy talking to you, Like if we were at 1:34:49.400 --> 1:34:51.040 dinner and we were just hanging out and having dinner 1:34:51.080 --> 1:34:53.720 and talking, you guys, you guys would have a great 1:34:53.760 --> 1:34:57.840 conversation with him. He because he's he's such an amazing mind, 1:34:58.400 --> 1:35:00.840 and also talking about his lyrics. See, the thing it's 1:35:00.880 --> 1:35:03.680 great about lyrics with him is that part of the 1:35:03.720 --> 1:35:06.479 beauty of a great lyricist is you can say what 1:35:06.560 --> 1:35:10.240 you need to say in a few words. And I'm 1:35:10.320 --> 1:35:13.760 very long winded. And so that's the reason I think 1:35:13.800 --> 1:35:15.800 I'm not necessarily that good at lyrics. I can say 1:35:15.800 --> 1:35:17.120 what I want to say, but it just takes me 1:35:17.160 --> 1:35:21.559 too many words to say it, Okay. And perfect example 1:35:21.800 --> 1:35:24.360 is the Janet record of Living in the World they 1:35:24.360 --> 1:35:28.680 didn't make and we had been watching it looks like 1:35:28.680 --> 1:35:32.200 the way CNN looks now pretty much honestly, but just 1:35:32.320 --> 1:35:35.519 all kinds of just craziness in the world and school 1:35:35.520 --> 1:35:38.760 shootings and just all kinds of stuff, and we just 1:35:38.760 --> 1:35:41.000 felt like we got to do a song that addresses 1:35:41.040 --> 1:35:45.080 that that it's not the kid's fault. It's the world 1:35:45.120 --> 1:35:48.920 that we've built as adults for the kids. Right, what 1:35:49.000 --> 1:35:53.040 does that song need to be? So we're like, we 1:35:53.080 --> 1:35:54.840 need Terry right is because it was just me and 1:35:54.920 --> 1:35:57.640 Janet talking about it, and Terry was actually at the 1:35:57.720 --> 1:36:02.040 time at our then our new studio, putting you know, 1:36:02.160 --> 1:36:05.120 we were building it at the time. So Terry walks 1:36:05.160 --> 1:36:06.680 in the door of our old play we're still at 1:36:06.720 --> 1:36:08.360 our old place. He walks in the door with like 1:36:08.439 --> 1:36:11.240 carpet samples and all kinds of stuff. We're like, jam, 1:36:11.280 --> 1:36:12.880 what do you think about the carpet sample and then 1:36:12.920 --> 1:36:15.280 whatever whatever? No, no, Terry, we need lyrics, man, we 1:36:15.320 --> 1:36:18.400 need lyrics. He said, okay, what's the concept? And I said, okay, 1:36:18.400 --> 1:36:22.080 because man, these kids, man, parents are making the bad 1:36:22.120 --> 1:36:24.680 decisions and the adults are making the bad decisions, and 1:36:24.720 --> 1:36:27.040 the kids pay for the mistakes that we make and 1:36:27.080 --> 1:36:29.200 such and such, and I go into this big long 1:36:29.400 --> 1:36:31.679 thing and Terry at the end of it, just goes 1:36:32.800 --> 1:36:35.439 living in the world they didn't make, walks into the 1:36:35.479 --> 1:36:37.680 room ten minutes later, hands Jenet the lyrics and goes 1:36:37.680 --> 1:36:42.880 here you go wow, so damn yeah, so that's and 1:36:42.920 --> 1:36:50.519 then he goes, no, which carpet stamps? And Terry's a 1:36:50.560 --> 1:36:53.400 really good multitasker too, so he could he could do that. 1:36:53.560 --> 1:36:55.760 His brain could work like that. But that was the thing. 1:36:56.280 --> 1:36:59.160 But because we're not joined at the hip, and we 1:36:59.240 --> 1:37:02.080 each have things that we do really well. Even in 1:37:02.160 --> 1:37:07.280 picking projects very much like picking uh, you know, what 1:37:07.680 --> 1:37:10.439 radio show to do for instance, or podcast or whatever, 1:37:10.680 --> 1:37:15.960 whatever the decision is, sometimes we if we neither of 1:37:16.040 --> 1:37:17.280 us feel it, then it's just the no. 1:37:17.880 --> 1:37:18.040 You know. 1:37:19.120 --> 1:37:22.519 If one of us feels it, then it's like, you know, 1:37:22.600 --> 1:37:25.439 we'll explain to the other why we feel good about it, 1:37:25.600 --> 1:37:30.200 and we just kind of know now, you know. I 1:37:30.320 --> 1:37:34.120 remember I mentioned your show to Terry, you know, three 1:37:34.240 --> 1:37:36.679 four or five months ago and stuff, and I said, 1:37:36.680 --> 1:37:39.800 you know, we should do quest Love show, you know whatever, whatever, whatever, 1:37:40.360 --> 1:37:42.000 what's the show about us? So it's just like it's 1:37:42.200 --> 1:37:44.200 really good, it's really in depth, and you know, it's 1:37:44.280 --> 1:37:46.479 kind of cool. He said, oh yeah, okay, yeah, it 1:37:46.560 --> 1:37:50.120 sounds okay, it's interesting. You know, it's like here he goes, 1:37:50.200 --> 1:37:53.479 but I love I love quest Love. Yeah, okay, but 1:37:54.080 --> 1:37:56.360 not I love. I'll do it. I just I love 1:37:56.479 --> 1:38:00.240 quest Love. Okay. So cool, Okay, So I know that 1:38:00.439 --> 1:38:02.840 going into it, it's like, okay, So then I'm like, okay, 1:38:02.960 --> 1:38:04.760 is that something? But no, I I really want to 1:38:04.800 --> 1:38:06.479 do it and and and I think it would be 1:38:06.720 --> 1:38:08.800 interesting to do, would be a great conversation whatever. Okay, 1:38:08.840 --> 1:38:11.280 So that's why. But we do projects the same way. 1:38:11.960 --> 1:38:15.760 And I swear to God, there's there's there's people that 1:38:16.000 --> 1:38:19.800 will swear to God that Terry does all the work 1:38:19.840 --> 1:38:23.800 and I don't do a thing. And there's and there's 1:38:23.840 --> 1:38:27.080 people that will swear that Terry doesn't do a thing. 1:38:27.439 --> 1:38:35.040 I feel like your pen and he's Teller, Like no, no, no, 1:38:35.600 --> 1:38:38.080 I think he doesn't work. But because we don't have 1:38:38.200 --> 1:38:42.600 a gauge for his personality that I'm just trying to 1:38:42.640 --> 1:38:45.280 figure out. Okay, Pennah, Teller is an interesting and now 1:38:45.400 --> 1:38:48.120 I thought you were the lyrics guy because you talk 1:38:48.200 --> 1:38:49.160 the most of the two. 1:38:50.200 --> 1:38:54.680 No, I'm not. I remember one of the songs I 1:38:54.760 --> 1:38:56.400 actually did a lot of the lyrics song was just 1:38:56.479 --> 1:38:59.200 be good to me. And I remember thinking the whole 1:38:59.240 --> 1:39:01.559 time I was writing it, this is way too long. 1:39:02.320 --> 1:39:04.080 And six minutes. 1:39:04.160 --> 1:39:08.679 Yeah, I remember that. I remember that, and and I remember. 1:39:09.320 --> 1:39:12.120 It's funny because I also remember like Saturday Love, like 1:39:12.240 --> 1:39:17.519 I came up with the hook on that, and I 1:39:17.840 --> 1:39:20.719 was like so embarrassed, like when I was at my house. 1:39:21.200 --> 1:39:23.000 And matter of fact, that the piano I wrote it 1:39:23.000 --> 1:39:25.000 on is the piano that's downstairs, which is also the 1:39:25.520 --> 1:39:29.320 Tenderlove piano, by the way, but I had it in 1:39:29.400 --> 1:39:31.559 my little apartment. You know, I had my first little 1:39:31.560 --> 1:39:33.280 apartment stuff, so I had the piano in there, right. 1:39:33.640 --> 1:39:36.040 So anyway, I write Saturday Love where I have the 1:39:36.360 --> 1:39:39.240 chords and stuff, and I got the Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, 1:39:39.479 --> 1:39:42.000 and I'm jamming. I don't think, oh man, this is cool. 1:39:42.520 --> 1:39:44.280 So I get to the studio and I'm like, Terry, 1:39:44.320 --> 1:39:46.640 I got the song man. He said, yeah, yeah, what 1:39:46.760 --> 1:39:50.120 is it? And I said, it's like it's like the 1:39:50.240 --> 1:39:55.559 days of the week. It's already sounded stupid now coming. 1:39:55.400 --> 1:39:59.200 Out of my mouth, well singing man, And I said, okay, 1:39:59.280 --> 1:40:05.840 well it's like Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and he starts laughing. 1:40:05.920 --> 1:40:08.360 He says, oh, that's funny. It's it's like Sesame Street. 1:40:08.400 --> 1:40:09.160 I said yeah. 1:40:09.240 --> 1:40:10.840 I said yeah, I. 1:40:10.920 --> 1:40:15.080 Said, forget it, forget it, forget it anyway. He said, no, no, no, 1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:16.880 it's cool. It's cool. I get it. I get it, 1:40:16.880 --> 1:40:19.080 I get it. So anyway, we do the song. Here's 1:40:19.160 --> 1:40:22.880 what we how much we really didn't think a lot 1:40:22.960 --> 1:40:26.880 of the song. The first and second lyrics. 1:40:26.560 --> 1:40:30.560 Exact same, exactly second verse, save the first. 1:40:31.800 --> 1:40:33.679 Second verse, save the first damn. 1:40:35.000 --> 1:40:41.559 Wow, yeah, why did you freaking say. 1:40:44.200 --> 1:40:48.880 It's the same it's lazy afternoon. Yeah, Well, we just didn't. 1:40:48.960 --> 1:40:53.479 We don't know how to write books. It's like, we 1:40:53.560 --> 1:40:56.960 gotta turn this record in tomorrow, just repeat it over again. 1:40:57.840 --> 1:41:00.720 So yeah, so that that was the thing. So that 1:41:00.960 --> 1:41:02.519 was what we thought of it. And even when we 1:41:02.600 --> 1:41:05.280 put it on the album, we were kind of like, 1:41:06.400 --> 1:41:08.479 and we remember we released I Think You Look Good 1:41:08.479 --> 1:41:10.880 to Me. It's the first single, and you Look Good 1:41:10.920 --> 1:41:14.639 to Me was doing well and it's moving up the charts, 1:41:14.680 --> 1:41:17.200 and it was everything was doing well. And I remember 1:41:17.240 --> 1:41:19.519 it got to about I don't know thirty or whatever, 1:41:20.040 --> 1:41:23.200 and it just kind of started slowing down and we 1:41:23.320 --> 1:41:25.680 were like going, what the hell is going on, and 1:41:25.800 --> 1:41:27.360 so we called the record company. We said, well, what 1:41:27.400 --> 1:41:29.599 are we what's going on with the record And they said, hey, man, 1:41:29.640 --> 1:41:31.200 everybody's jumping to this Saturday Love. 1:41:31.520 --> 1:41:35.320 And I'm told you because I remember too. The challenge 1:41:35.479 --> 1:41:37.400 was if you could really get it in the right cadence, 1:41:37.479 --> 1:41:39.519 like you felt good about yourself. I remember the time 1:41:39.560 --> 1:41:42.560 when I finally got I was like, yes, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. 1:41:42.200 --> 1:41:46.080 Wednesdayday, weren't you three? When that came didn't matter. 1:41:46.360 --> 1:41:47.200 I remember singing it up. 1:41:47.560 --> 1:41:55.920 It was accomplishment, which I've seen Cherrelle open up for 1:41:56.000 --> 1:41:56.760 new addition once. 1:41:57.160 --> 1:42:01.880 Yeah, Rick, Ran and Dan were like dog they were 1:42:02.040 --> 1:42:06.680 so freaking charismatic and their own Yes, how come Rick 1:42:06.800 --> 1:42:09.000 Rand and Dan were not their own group? 1:42:09.240 --> 1:42:13.800 They were who is? Rick Randon was like like you remember. 1:42:13.520 --> 1:42:17.200 When Prince had his Jerome and the two bodyguards, like 1:42:17.320 --> 1:42:21.800 as his pips. She had her own pips and they 1:42:21.920 --> 1:42:24.880 was like funky. They were like straight up like I 1:42:25.000 --> 1:42:26.040 wanted them to be a group. 1:42:26.240 --> 1:42:30.559 They were a group. Wait, Rick Rannon, Dan, they were 1:42:30.760 --> 1:42:34.280 a group. They were a group. Recorded them? Uh, well, 1:42:34.400 --> 1:42:38.479 we started recording them. You produce the song for yes, 1:42:38.760 --> 1:42:44.719 But tragically Ran Randy uh, died in a motorcycle accident. 1:42:44.880 --> 1:42:48.519 He was Chelle's husband's I don't think they were married, 1:42:48.560 --> 1:42:49.960 but certainly her boyfriend. 1:42:50.040 --> 1:42:54.080 Yeah, Randy ran Oh, Randy who wrote That's Been to 1:42:54.160 --> 1:42:54.719 Night for Jhanna. 1:42:55.040 --> 1:42:58.360 Yes, yeah, so he was so how do you know that? 1:42:58.880 --> 1:43:01.840 Yeah, that's one of my favorite album. 1:43:02.800 --> 1:43:06.200 That's my job. I'm supposed to know. That's why I 1:43:06.240 --> 1:43:12.400 got the redhead phones. But Randy, Randy was amazing. And 1:43:12.479 --> 1:43:14.719 I remember Charille introduced us. 1:43:14.640 --> 1:43:18.479 To him and uh, she said, yeah, I want you 1:43:18.520 --> 1:43:23.400 to meet my boyfriend. Uh, this is Randy and he's 1:43:23.400 --> 1:43:25.360 got this group Rick Randon, Dan and whatever. 1:43:25.439 --> 1:43:25.719 Whatever. 1:43:25.840 --> 1:43:27.519 We said, Okay, cool, well we'll check him out. We'll 1:43:27.600 --> 1:43:29.720 check him out. And then so when we did You 1:43:29.760 --> 1:43:31.320 Look Good to Me, we put him in the video. 1:43:31.880 --> 1:43:34.240 We put Rick Randon on the video of You Look 1:43:34.280 --> 1:43:37.320 Good to Me. And the plan was that, yeah, we 1:43:37.400 --> 1:43:38.800 were going to make a record with him like that 1:43:39.000 --> 1:43:40.840 was the next thing we were going to do. 1:43:41.760 --> 1:43:43.679 They were the first cats I ever seen do the snake. 1:43:44.400 --> 1:43:45.840 Yeah, that's right, that's right. 1:43:46.920 --> 1:43:49.160 The first time I seen that. Semo and Soul training 1:43:49.240 --> 1:43:50.479 we all started doing that ship. 1:43:51.080 --> 1:43:54.560 No, they were they were crazy talented. Uh, as a 1:43:54.640 --> 1:43:58.919 group and uh, but but Randy as a writer and producer, 1:43:59.320 --> 1:44:00.360 he did a lot of songs. 1:44:00.400 --> 1:44:01.040 He did h. 1:44:03.200 --> 1:44:07.280 I'm trying to think I'm totally blanking, but he produced 1:44:07.320 --> 1:44:10.280 a lot of a lot of songs for us back 1:44:10.320 --> 1:44:14.120 in the days. Very very talented, super nice dude. But 1:44:14.240 --> 1:44:16.840 he got a motorcycle man. He just was, you know, 1:44:17.040 --> 1:44:18.360 and just a motorcycle accident. 1:44:19.880 --> 1:44:22.479 I want to ask you about Perspective Records and like, 1:44:22.840 --> 1:44:26.000 how did when you guys first started, was Sounds of Blackness? 1:44:26.080 --> 1:44:27.800 Y'all very first as. 1:44:28.080 --> 1:44:30.280 Yes, that was the very first, very first act, and 1:44:30.400 --> 1:44:32.360 it Sounds of Blackness was the story with them? 1:44:32.600 --> 1:44:44.679 Was all forty of them signed that contract no a week? Yeah, yeah, 1:44:44.680 --> 1:44:45.040 that's right. 1:44:49.560 --> 1:44:53.160 You know. The ironic thing about that about that statement though, 1:44:53.280 --> 1:44:55.839 which is very true, and it's one of the reasons 1:44:55.920 --> 1:45:03.160 that we never criticized Prince's decision because you know, it's 1:45:03.240 --> 1:45:05.880 kind of like it's tough to criticize the boss if 1:45:05.920 --> 1:45:10.679 you've never been a boss. And so we didn't agree 1:45:10.720 --> 1:45:13.720 with a lot of things that Prince did, but we 1:45:13.880 --> 1:45:16.160 were in the position we were in because of the 1:45:16.240 --> 1:45:18.439 things he did do or you know or whatever. Those 1:45:18.479 --> 1:45:21.160 decisions were we looked at where we were at and 1:45:21.280 --> 1:45:25.040 realized we wouldn't have been there without those decisions, even 1:45:25.080 --> 1:45:28.600 the decision to kick us out the group, which was 1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:31.400 the best decision. Yeah, he could have made for us, 1:45:31.560 --> 1:45:33.400 because we wouldn't have left the group on our own. 1:45:33.479 --> 1:45:35.240 It's like, no, we love being with the group, so 1:45:36.080 --> 1:45:38.640 you never knows, but yeah, you're absolutely right. That was that, 1:45:38.960 --> 1:45:41.800 you know, sounds of Blackness, Like, that's an expensive group 1:45:42.240 --> 1:45:44.639 to get around, and we and we and we dug 1:45:44.680 --> 1:45:46.880 in our pocket to do it because we believed in 1:45:46.960 --> 1:45:51.920 what it was. Janet was. Actually, we took Janet to 1:45:51.960 --> 1:45:55.600 a show when we were working on Rhythm Nation, and 1:45:55.680 --> 1:45:58.000 we took her to a show, and the whole show 1:45:58.680 --> 1:46:01.800 she was nudging me because the whole thing about souns 1:46:01.800 --> 1:46:04.240 of Blackness, it was all celebrated all the different kinds 1:46:04.280 --> 1:46:06.320 of black music. It wasn't just it was gospel, but 1:46:06.360 --> 1:46:08.920 it was jazz, it was blues, it was everything. And 1:46:09.640 --> 1:46:11.920 every time they'd launch into a different thing, she nudged 1:46:11.960 --> 1:46:13.920 me and go, oh, they're doing a jazz song. Oh 1:46:13.960 --> 1:46:15.880 they're doing a gospel song. Oh they're you know, And 1:46:16.000 --> 1:46:18.360 it was like, yeah, Janet, that's what they do like 1:46:18.840 --> 1:46:20.880 we knew them because we would play like on the 1:46:20.920 --> 1:46:24.280 same gigs as them, as flight Time, we would play 1:46:24.400 --> 1:46:26.240 like they were around that long. Yeah oh they yeah, 1:46:26.280 --> 1:46:30.960 they were around their Yeah that's right. Yeah, same members, 1:46:31.080 --> 1:46:35.519 same members, same same director and Nesby and as Gary Hines. 1:46:35.680 --> 1:46:39.640 Yeah, the nice fro Yep, they were like, guys, it's 1:46:39.720 --> 1:46:42.240 kind of like Ladiesmith Flack Mombazzo like they were. 1:46:42.560 --> 1:46:45.280 Yeah, exactly. So so they they were around forever. So 1:46:45.439 --> 1:46:48.240 when we started the label and and so Janet said, 1:46:48.360 --> 1:46:52.599 she said, wow, you should sign them, and we thought, yeah, 1:46:52.680 --> 1:46:54.519 we should. That's a good idea, we should sign it. 1:46:55.320 --> 1:46:58.240 And so I remember we talked to Gary after that 1:46:58.320 --> 1:46:59.640 show and we said, you know, we want to make 1:46:59.680 --> 1:47:02.400 a record. You guys were starting a label. And our 1:47:02.479 --> 1:47:06.880 theory was real simple to me, which was we wanted 1:47:06.920 --> 1:47:10.680 to build a big tall building. But in order to 1:47:10.760 --> 1:47:13.000 build a big tall building, you got to dig a foundation. 1:47:13.680 --> 1:47:16.760 And Sounds of Blackness was our foundation. And Terry would 1:47:16.760 --> 1:47:19.920 always say, you know, sometimes you got to give people 1:47:20.760 --> 1:47:23.160 not what they want, but what they need, and they 1:47:23.200 --> 1:47:25.920 don't know they need it until they hear it, and 1:47:26.000 --> 1:47:29.040 then they go, oh man, I needed this, Yes, and 1:47:29.120 --> 1:47:30.320 that's what Sounds of Blackness was. 1:47:30.400 --> 1:47:30.519 Now. 1:47:31.040 --> 1:47:33.200 It was funny because there were you know, the business 1:47:33.240 --> 1:47:35.840 always comes into it. So we were at A and 1:47:35.960 --> 1:47:42.400 M Records, and I remember A and M was still 1:47:42.479 --> 1:47:45.040 her Alpert and Jerry Moss the original to A and 1:47:45.200 --> 1:47:48.519 M guys, right, And I remember doing the record, and 1:47:48.640 --> 1:47:52.320 I remember the A and M, the guys that were 1:47:52.400 --> 1:47:55.640 kind of running it at the time. They said we 1:47:55.760 --> 1:47:57.519 had them. I just think Sounds of Blackness was in 1:47:57.600 --> 1:47:59.760 I want to say Philadelphia. I want to say for 1:48:00.120 --> 1:48:06.000 like like a conference or something. Maybe I am or something. Oh, yeah, 1:48:06.000 --> 1:48:08.759 I am, okay. So we had them there for the conference. 1:48:08.800 --> 1:48:10.920 So we said, and it wasn't the whole group. We 1:48:11.000 --> 1:48:13.360 had a touring group. Okay, we had a touring group 1:48:13.400 --> 1:48:17.080 of twenty of twenty. So we said, let's we want 1:48:17.120 --> 1:48:19.439 to take them to New York and uh, you know, 1:48:19.680 --> 1:48:21.759 take them to some radio and do some stuff. Optimistic 1:48:21.800 --> 1:48:24.400 had just come out as a single and they were like, oh, 1:48:24.400 --> 1:48:25.880 you don't have a budget for it. There's no budget 1:48:25.960 --> 1:48:27.920 for that. And we're like, well, we're already in Philadelphia. 1:48:28.040 --> 1:48:29.560 It's like, let's just go up to New York. No, 1:48:29.680 --> 1:48:31.880 it's no budget for it. So we're like okay. So 1:48:32.000 --> 1:48:33.920 we just went in our pockets and just said, here, 1:48:34.040 --> 1:48:35.880 here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go to New York. 1:48:36.520 --> 1:48:39.519 And at the time, I can't remember. I think Frankie 1:48:39.560 --> 1:48:41.760 might have still been to beat BLS at the time, 1:48:42.120 --> 1:48:46.479 I can't remember, right, And we just called the radio stations. 1:48:46.560 --> 1:48:48.320 It's like, hey, it's Jam and Lewis. Can we bring 1:48:48.400 --> 1:48:50.640 them group by? And everybody was like, yeah, yeah, bring them, 1:48:50.760 --> 1:48:53.719 bring them by. And we'd bring them to the station 1:48:54.800 --> 1:48:57.240 and they'd sing and blow everybody away, and then we'd 1:48:57.280 --> 1:48:59.080 be like we think we'd be there for fifteen minutes, 1:48:59.080 --> 1:49:01.880 we'd be on there for two. Right, So we leave 1:49:01.920 --> 1:49:03.840 the station, the phones would all be lighting up and stuff, 1:49:03.840 --> 1:49:06.599 and then we go to like what Sylvia's I think 1:49:06.720 --> 1:49:09.439 was the place back then, right, So we'd go to 1:49:09.560 --> 1:49:13.320 Sylvia's and we'd eat, you know, we'd feed everybody, but 1:49:13.400 --> 1:49:16.840 then they treat everybody to a show the chefs. We'd 1:49:16.880 --> 1:49:20.080 have the chefs and everybody come out and stuff. And right, 1:49:21.080 --> 1:49:23.120 So when we left New York and went back to 1:49:23.840 --> 1:49:26.360 well to Minneapolis, actually not to LA. When we back 1:49:26.400 --> 1:49:31.800 to Minneapolis the next week, the record got to like 1:49:32.000 --> 1:49:34.599 I didn't know on both whatever the two outlets were 1:49:34.600 --> 1:49:37.040 at the time, We're both like sixty seventy spins a week, 1:49:37.240 --> 1:49:42.320 like huge, and they're all going, you know, all the 1:49:42.400 --> 1:49:44.679 marketing and all the people that they're going, what happened 1:49:44.720 --> 1:49:46.720 with this, what's going on with the Sounds of Blackness record? 1:49:46.720 --> 1:49:48.000 And I said, well, we took them to New York, 1:49:48.800 --> 1:49:52.519 like we said, and you know they had that kind 1:49:52.560 --> 1:49:54.600 of impact. We just need to get them out. So 1:49:55.200 --> 1:50:03.840 I remember Herb called me and he said, he said, hey, Jam, 1:50:03.960 --> 1:50:08.439 it's Herb. And I said, oh, Herb, I said, great news, man. 1:50:08.840 --> 1:50:11.479 I said, we're number one most added this Sounds a 1:50:11.520 --> 1:50:14.479 Blackness record and for this and that you know, we 1:50:14.640 --> 1:50:16.920 got this many spins and we got whatever whatever. And 1:50:17.000 --> 1:50:20.960 Herb says, I didn't call it here, that bullshit. He said, 1:50:21.040 --> 1:50:25.240 I called to tell you that I am so proud 1:50:25.840 --> 1:50:29.320 to be associated with this record and you guys that 1:50:29.479 --> 1:50:32.839 you brought this gift to us at A and M Records. 1:50:35.000 --> 1:50:37.240 And I was like wow, I said, okay, thanks man. 1:50:37.479 --> 1:50:42.439 He said that's it. So I called So. I called So. 1:50:42.600 --> 1:50:45.880 I called his girl, his assistant, who is still his 1:50:46.000 --> 1:50:49.560 assistant to this day, and I said, yeah, I just 1:50:49.600 --> 1:50:52.080 got a call from herb about the record. I said, 1:50:52.160 --> 1:50:54.000 is he is he there? I just forgot I was 1:50:54.040 --> 1:50:56.200 going to say something to him, and she said, well, 1:50:56.240 --> 1:50:58.160 you know, it's the funny, funniest thing. You know. He 1:50:58.280 --> 1:51:02.479 drove into work, and I kept thinking, why isn't he 1:51:02.560 --> 1:51:04.920 coming in, Like he's just sitting in his car and 1:51:05.000 --> 1:51:08.040 he was just listening to it. And then she said, 1:51:08.160 --> 1:51:09.760 and then when he came in, I could tell he 1:51:09.800 --> 1:51:15.639 had been crying, WHOA right? And I was like wow, 1:51:15.800 --> 1:51:18.360 I said, okay, I said, okay, well thanks, don't bother him, 1:51:18.400 --> 1:51:20.760 you know, I said, it's all good. We spoke already whatever. 1:51:21.240 --> 1:51:23.840 She said, okay. But the fact that that record had 1:51:23.960 --> 1:51:31.280 that impact on him, it said so much about to 1:51:31.400 --> 1:51:33.400 me that we were doing the right thing, but also 1:51:33.600 --> 1:51:36.640 that we were with the right partners who understood what 1:51:36.760 --> 1:51:38.759 it was we were trying to do in our vision 1:51:38.880 --> 1:51:40.400 of what we wanted to do and what we wanted 1:51:40.439 --> 1:51:45.320 the record company to be. Unfortunately, PolyGram came in and 1:51:45.360 --> 1:51:47.479 bought him out, cashed him out for I don't know, 1:51:47.520 --> 1:51:50.080 three hundred million or whatever the heck it was, and 1:51:50.600 --> 1:51:53.040 what I call the new A and M, which was 1:51:53.320 --> 1:51:59.880 Al Kafaro and Milt Olen came in, and honestly, Milt 1:52:00.280 --> 1:52:04.639 was just a numbers guy, business affairs guy, and everything 1:52:04.760 --> 1:52:09.679 was about how much something costs whatever. And al bless 1:52:09.760 --> 1:52:14.720 his heart, was just a he inherited us, and he 1:52:14.800 --> 1:52:16.880 looked at our deal and saw that our deal was 1:52:16.920 --> 1:52:19.000 against his bottom line because our deal was it was 1:52:19.040 --> 1:52:21.439 a huge deal because Herb and Jerry were like we 1:52:21.680 --> 1:52:23.599 At first they say, we can't afford you. But then 1:52:23.600 --> 1:52:26.000 when they knew the PolyGram money was coming, they called 1:52:26.040 --> 1:52:29.080 and said we can afford you now, right. So it 1:52:29.200 --> 1:52:33.599 was cool, and but it never was the same, right 1:52:33.720 --> 1:52:36.479 down to the Grammys. I remember that year at the Grammys, 1:52:36.520 --> 1:52:39.080 A and m Had they were in New York that year, 1:52:39.120 --> 1:52:41.040 and I remember A and m Had, I think the 1:52:41.120 --> 1:52:44.120 police are staying or whatever, and show Crow and they 1:52:44.200 --> 1:52:46.880 had all these records that were up for awards. The 1:52:47.080 --> 1:52:48.960 only one that won a Grammy that night was Sounds 1:52:48.960 --> 1:52:51.920 of Blackness. And I remember running into Milt Olin on 1:52:52.000 --> 1:52:55.439 the in the elevator, you know, coming down the stairs somewhere, 1:52:56.280 --> 1:52:59.599 and and I said, hey, Milt. I said great night, 1:52:59.720 --> 1:53:02.639 huh And he said yeah, yeah, great for you guys. 1:53:03.760 --> 1:53:06.639 And I said, what mean great for you. He said, 1:53:06.640 --> 1:53:08.640 oh great, it's great for you. Yeah you guys won, 1:53:09.880 --> 1:53:12.519 I said, well we want I thought we're partners. Oh yeah, yeah, 1:53:12.560 --> 1:53:16.040 yeah that's true. Yeah yeah, you're right. And I thought, man, 1:53:16.120 --> 1:53:18.320 I thought, okay, so here's where we're at now. We're 1:53:18.360 --> 1:53:23.120 from her calling me crying to this and it was doomed. 1:53:23.640 --> 1:53:26.200 It was doomed mid conditions. I mean, the records that 1:53:26.240 --> 1:53:29.880 were successful were successful despite you know, the folks that 1:53:29.960 --> 1:53:30.439 were there. 1:53:30.760 --> 1:53:33.639 As a Christmas record, this Sounds a Blackness? 1:53:34.360 --> 1:53:36.280 Did this? Yeah, sol Holiday? I mean, but once again, 1:53:36.360 --> 1:53:38.080 it's I mean, it was like all the things that 1:53:38.160 --> 1:53:40.560 we wanted to do, we just did them, but we 1:53:40.720 --> 1:53:48.680 just reached who j no, because this was after that. 1:53:49.040 --> 1:53:51.800 This was this was see we're talking Janet went di 1:53:51.920 --> 1:53:57.439 virgin in ninety three Sounds of Blackness. We're ninety one. 1:53:58.320 --> 1:54:01.240 Yeah right, yeah. So but but that was part of 1:54:01.280 --> 1:54:06.760 the problem is because we got asked why when we 1:54:06.880 --> 1:54:11.360 brought Sounds of Blackness. The question we were asked not 1:54:11.439 --> 1:54:14.840 by Herb and Jerry, who Herb obviously loved what we brought, right, 1:54:16.120 --> 1:54:22.599 but the al Cafaro milk Own regime ask we gave 1:54:22.640 --> 1:54:24.599 you all this money, why didn't you bring us another 1:54:24.680 --> 1:54:29.240 Janet Jackson record, or bring us an act like Janet Jackson. 1:54:29.320 --> 1:54:32.680 And it's like, well, because we have a plan of 1:54:32.880 --> 1:54:35.960 what we're gonna do, We're gonna build that. I mean, 1:54:36.040 --> 1:54:38.040 just watch what we do. Just let us do our thing. 1:54:38.120 --> 1:54:39.800 We know what we're doing, at least we think we do. 1:54:40.400 --> 1:54:42.440 But we're gonna create some great records for you. And 1:54:42.600 --> 1:54:45.240 so we did the we did the Sounds of Blackness record. 1:54:45.640 --> 1:54:47.720 We follow that up with the Men Condition record, the 1:54:47.880 --> 1:54:50.640 very first one, the very first one. Yeah, meant to 1:54:50.680 --> 1:54:55.680 be meant so all listen to that record, said there's 1:54:55.720 --> 1:55:00.040 no hits on this record. We said, wow, okay, So 1:55:00.120 --> 1:55:03.880 we said okay, So Sheila Eldridge, who you guys probably know, 1:55:04.840 --> 1:55:06.640 So Sheila. We went to Sheila and we said, Sheila, 1:55:06.720 --> 1:55:08.520 what can we do to drum up some support for 1:55:08.880 --> 1:55:11.280 we got this single coming out pretty Brown Eyes whatever, 1:55:11.360 --> 1:55:13.920 we're breaking my heart? And she said, oh, let's do 1:55:14.040 --> 1:55:16.520 a uh, let's go to the colleges in the DC 1:55:16.680 --> 1:55:19.520 area and stuff and we'll do like a video contest 1:55:19.560 --> 1:55:22.160 and whoever comes up with the best video remember that. 1:55:22.280 --> 1:55:24.320 Yes, And it was a Howard Girl, the Howard Girl 1:55:24.360 --> 1:55:26.560 one yes, but not for the second single. 1:55:29.760 --> 1:55:31.560 So that was the concept. So Terry went out with 1:55:31.680 --> 1:55:34.120 him in like a win of Bago, like he was 1:55:34.160 --> 1:55:36.720 staying at like hotels and didn't fax machines did didn't 1:55:36.720 --> 1:55:38.840 even have fax machines at the hotel. I'm like, hey, man, 1:55:38.880 --> 1:55:40.760 can I send the facts to you? Terry Man, I 1:55:40.760 --> 1:55:43.360 ain't no facts of this roach. 1:55:43.280 --> 1:55:45.600 Motel had the company, yeah, you know. 1:55:46.120 --> 1:55:47.680 So it was like one of those kinds of things. 1:55:47.920 --> 1:55:49.560 So all of a sudden, I remember we're sitting in 1:55:49.640 --> 1:55:54.160 a marketing meeting and uh, you know, everybody sitting around 1:55:54.200 --> 1:55:58.560 the table and everybody's talking about uh, you know, you 1:55:58.760 --> 1:56:03.800 name whatever Indie White act. You could sold one hundred 1:56:03.840 --> 1:56:06.720 copies somewhere. Oh we sold one hundred copies in Des Moines. 1:56:07.240 --> 1:56:10.840 Yeah that's awesome. Yeah. And then we got sticks and 1:56:10.920 --> 1:56:14.920 Stones over here and they sold fifty copies in in 1:56:15.200 --> 1:56:19.600 uh you know, min not North Dakota. Oh that's awesome. Yeah, 1:56:19.760 --> 1:56:23.480 that's great. What do you guys got? End of the meeting, 1:56:23.520 --> 1:56:26.560 What do you guys got? And we said, okay, well 1:56:27.360 --> 1:56:32.240 we have and the guy goes, oh my god, you 1:56:32.320 --> 1:56:35.600 guys got seventy five spins at the pop station in DC. 1:56:36.360 --> 1:56:38.000 What is this song? Who is this grel? 1:56:40.160 --> 1:56:43.200 We're like, oh yeah, men, condition oh my god, this 1:56:43.360 --> 1:56:46.600 record is How did that happen? And I said, well, 1:56:46.800 --> 1:56:49.440 Terry got in a Winnebago and we did a video 1:56:49.560 --> 1:56:52.960 contest and they were like, oh my god. And the 1:56:53.040 --> 1:56:54.720 next thing you know, we had a top five pop 1:56:54.840 --> 1:56:59.600 record on the album with no hits. Literally we had 1:56:59.680 --> 1:57:03.000 to prove ourselves over and over and open. No matter 1:57:03.040 --> 1:57:05.520 what we did, we came up with a low key 1:57:05.600 --> 1:57:08.120 record next straight to number one on the R and 1:57:08.200 --> 1:57:08.720 B charts. 1:57:09.800 --> 1:57:10.960 That's that I got a thing for you. 1:57:11.080 --> 1:57:11.880 I got a thing for you. 1:57:11.880 --> 1:57:15.400 You know something now that you mention it the first 1:57:15.440 --> 1:57:16.800 do you remember the first time we met? 1:57:17.960 --> 1:57:18.000 No? 1:57:18.560 --> 1:57:21.800 Oh, yes, at college at that college out door. 1:57:22.800 --> 1:57:26.200 Hey, I forgot yes, yes, yes, what was the name 1:57:26.280 --> 1:57:29.320 India a little red boot? Yes? 1:57:29.560 --> 1:57:34.640 Uh Angel Angel, that's right, Yeah, I forgot that, you guys. 1:57:34.720 --> 1:57:39.360 And that's a thing when someone when the college promoters said, hey, Jimmy, 1:57:39.400 --> 1:57:41.040 Jamme and Terry Lewis out there, they want to know 1:57:41.080 --> 1:57:42.920 if they can open for you guys real quick, and 1:57:43.120 --> 1:57:48.440 we like almost lost it life. Who that's like Jimmy, 1:57:48.480 --> 1:57:51.200 Jaime and Terry Lewis want to open for us, Like 1:57:51.400 --> 1:57:53.960 we totally didn't get the context that it was then, 1:57:55.040 --> 1:57:57.880 and I was just mind blowing that you guys were 1:57:58.240 --> 1:58:04.880 that accessible. You were like our idols, freaking promoting with 1:58:05.040 --> 1:58:07.480 your artists, Like I've never seen such a thing where 1:58:07.520 --> 1:58:07.920 it's like. 1:58:08.880 --> 1:58:11.560 You know, we were always big believers in that though, 1:58:11.600 --> 1:58:14.320 because even when we knew the perspective, we knew we 1:58:14.440 --> 1:58:16.520 were done in perspective, our deal was almost up. 1:58:18.040 --> 1:58:19.920 How was the deal? Was it like for a number 1:58:20.080 --> 1:58:21.920 of albums that tried to play with out. 1:58:22.120 --> 1:58:23.960 No, it was just it was just a number of years, 1:58:23.960 --> 1:58:25.800 and it kind of changed as it happened because when 1:58:25.800 --> 1:58:27.640 we first started, we went in just it was a 1:58:27.720 --> 1:58:30.320 joint venture and we went in and we basically were 1:58:30.360 --> 1:58:32.880 going to just release, you know, three records a year 1:58:32.960 --> 1:58:35.720 or whatever. That then turned in they were shutting the 1:58:35.800 --> 1:58:38.040 whole black music department down of A and M, there 1:58:38.120 --> 1:58:40.000 was a there was a whole thing where a lot 1:58:40.040 --> 1:58:42.400 of the companies started just losing the black music department. 1:58:43.160 --> 1:58:44.760 So what they said to us is, why don't you 1:58:44.880 --> 1:58:47.320 guys just take over the black music department, Which was 1:58:47.360 --> 1:58:50.160 great because we inherited the Berry White record, which nobody 1:58:50.200 --> 1:58:54.040 thought was a hit and yeah with a practice what 1:58:54.080 --> 1:58:56.240 you mention all that stuff right, And they said, oh, 1:58:56.320 --> 1:58:58.120 that's not a hit, and we like took it over. 1:58:58.200 --> 1:58:59.960 And the funny thing was we took the record over, 1:59:00.200 --> 1:59:02.920 but then when it record went number one, yeah it 1:59:03.000 --> 1:59:04.800 was a and m oh a and m yeah we 1:59:04.920 --> 1:59:10.040 did it and were going, okay, well we actually Champion 1:59:10.080 --> 1:59:13.440 didn't work that song, but okay. Anyway, So as we 1:59:13.560 --> 1:59:15.080 got toward the end of the deal, we had this 1:59:15.160 --> 1:59:19.160 group called Solo. I discovered discovered them on the street 1:59:19.160 --> 1:59:22.520 corner of New York, actually fell in love with him, 1:59:23.240 --> 1:59:26.720 made the record, and that was the only record probably 1:59:26.840 --> 1:59:29.600 I would say on an m that they really I 1:59:29.600 --> 1:59:34.160 remember Al Kafaro coming to town and saying, we want 1:59:34.240 --> 1:59:37.840 you guys to stay, and we're going to show you 1:59:38.040 --> 1:59:41.160 what we can do with this solo record. And I 1:59:41.200 --> 1:59:43.480 think we ended up doing like eight hundred thousand units 1:59:43.520 --> 1:59:45.520 on that record, so it was a very successful record. 1:59:46.000 --> 1:59:48.560 They actually got us our only time ever working with 1:59:48.960 --> 1:59:52.960 Hype Williams. We actually got a real video budget and 1:59:53.160 --> 1:59:55.560 you know all of those things. But what we knew 1:59:55.600 --> 1:59:57.600 we were leaving. So our whole thing was we had 1:59:57.600 --> 2:00:00.480 an an Nesby record, and we had had the Mint 2:00:00.560 --> 2:00:04.520 record with UH, what kind of man would I? 2:00:04.560 --> 2:00:06.720 Definition? Definition? 2:00:07.240 --> 2:00:10.160 Yeah, definition of the band. So we had those records 2:00:10.280 --> 2:00:12.320 and we wanted to make sure that when we left, 2:00:12.440 --> 2:00:15.880 those records were set up as good as possible, Like 2:00:15.960 --> 2:00:17.560 we can get you to the goal line. You guys 2:00:17.600 --> 2:00:18.880 got to get it over because we're not going to 2:00:18.920 --> 2:00:20.240 be there, but we're going to get it as far 2:00:20.320 --> 2:00:24.760 as we possibly can. And I remember we did. We 2:00:24.880 --> 2:00:27.000 wanted to go visit the branches, right because you know 2:00:27.480 --> 2:00:29.520 there's people that are working in these branches, because this 2:00:29.640 --> 2:00:32.360 is still in the the physical distribution, right, so you're 2:00:32.400 --> 2:00:34.800 taking records and stores, you're doing this right. Our whole 2:00:34.840 --> 2:00:38.040 thing was, man, let's go visit these people and we'll 2:00:38.120 --> 2:00:40.800 take mid Condition with us, and we'll take UH and 2:00:41.040 --> 2:00:43.880 Nesby with us. And well that's important. That was the 2:00:44.040 --> 2:00:45.640 it was the most important thing. Well they didn't think 2:00:45.640 --> 2:00:48.560 it was important. We thought it was important. So once again, 2:00:48.640 --> 2:00:51.400 we financed it ourselves. We just did it ourselves. So 2:00:51.640 --> 2:00:53.280 what we did is we went we called the brand 2:00:53.280 --> 2:00:55.080 and the branches were like, what do you mean you 2:00:55.160 --> 2:00:56.600 want to bring them by? We said, we just want 2:00:56.600 --> 2:00:58.280 to bring them by, Like what time do you guys 2:00:58.320 --> 2:01:00.200 do lunch. You guys have like a lunch hours, you 2:01:00.240 --> 2:01:01.960 have like a lunch room or something, and they're like yeah, 2:01:01.960 --> 2:01:04.000 and I was like, okay, we're coming. So the employees 2:01:04.000 --> 2:01:05.920 would all be in there eating lunch. We'd all bust in. 2:01:06.080 --> 2:01:08.440 We'd go hey, we're jam and Lewis and whatever, and everybody. 2:01:09.880 --> 2:01:15.200 Started because started of course, because it was. 2:01:16.800 --> 2:01:17.320 We did it too. 2:01:17.880 --> 2:01:20.840 It's important though to me it's important. It's like because 2:01:20.840 --> 2:01:21.360 how did you know? 2:01:21.480 --> 2:01:22.160 That was important? 2:01:22.640 --> 2:01:24.960 Because it was we were getting to the age of 2:01:25.920 --> 2:01:29.000 it was fax machines, the beginning of the internet was happening, 2:01:29.080 --> 2:01:31.320 the idea cell phones were beginning to happen. It was 2:01:31.400 --> 2:01:34.480 kind of the idea that you didn't you know, two 2:01:34.560 --> 2:01:40.040 way pages. It was the idea of personalization was out 2:01:40.080 --> 2:01:42.080 of it, you know, where you weren't really spending personal 2:01:42.160 --> 2:01:47.320 time with people, and to me, that was getting lost. 2:01:47.640 --> 2:01:50.720 Plus there was kind of this thing where the stars 2:01:50.800 --> 2:01:54.320 were here, but the people really in the trenches that 2:01:54.400 --> 2:01:57.640 were doing the work were getting no respect. And as 2:01:57.800 --> 2:01:59.960 people that we felt always felt, we started in the trend. 2:02:00.320 --> 2:02:02.600 I mean, I'm the guy remember at a beginning of 2:02:02.680 --> 2:02:04.520 our thing, I'm at the record store telling the guy 2:02:04.640 --> 2:02:07.600 order our thousand of these and we can I'm putting 2:02:07.680 --> 2:02:09.920 up my little playlist thing and I'm doing. 2:02:09.960 --> 2:02:11.000 I mean, that was my thing. 2:02:11.080 --> 2:02:13.240 And Terry the same way. We were like entrepreneurs. We 2:02:13.320 --> 2:02:15.000 were like no, no, no, no, we got It's about 2:02:15.040 --> 2:02:19.480 the personal interaction where if I tell somebody this record's 2:02:19.520 --> 2:02:21.800 going to be a great record, they trust me because 2:02:21.800 --> 2:02:23.720 I'm looking in the eye and I'm saying this. So 2:02:23.880 --> 2:02:27.120 if we actually bring the talent to them when they're 2:02:27.200 --> 2:02:31.200 out there fussing with an account about you know, well 2:02:31.280 --> 2:02:33.400 we can only stock this many of them, and then 2:02:33.520 --> 2:02:37.320 you've actually met the person me. Yeah, it's like no, no, no, 2:02:37.640 --> 2:02:39.960 we met these people. They actually came. And what we 2:02:40.040 --> 2:02:42.080 would do is we'd visit the branch during the day 2:02:43.000 --> 2:02:44.720 and then at night we would rent a club out 2:02:44.920 --> 2:02:47.040 and we'd have everybody come to the club and we'd 2:02:47.080 --> 2:02:49.440 invite you know, we'd say, bring your people right, and 2:02:49.520 --> 2:02:51.800 then we do like a full on performance. And we 2:02:51.920 --> 2:02:54.240 went to like about six or seven branches and we 2:02:54.320 --> 2:02:58.880 did that, and I remember the day or the week 2:02:59.000 --> 2:03:00.880 we left. I remember what kind of man would I be? 2:03:01.000 --> 2:03:03.920 Was at number two? It was already set to go 2:03:04.080 --> 2:03:05.800 number one. We already had the spins. We knew we 2:03:05.880 --> 2:03:09.320 were sat there Anne's record. I can't remember where we 2:03:09.360 --> 2:03:10.840 were at with Anne, but she was like getting ready 2:03:10.840 --> 2:03:13.160 to go top ten Urban like she was. She was there. 2:03:13.240 --> 2:03:15.960 So we were good, and I remember we left and 2:03:16.000 --> 2:03:18.480 I remember the next week when what kind of man 2:03:18.520 --> 2:03:22.560 would I be? When number one? I remember they called 2:03:23.320 --> 2:03:26.840 men because Stokely told me and they said, see what 2:03:26.920 --> 2:03:28.520 we can do now that jam and Lewis are out 2:03:28.560 --> 2:03:39.040 the way? Wow, I said so, and we were laughed 2:03:39.040 --> 2:03:40.640 and we were like because I mean, they were at 2:03:40.680 --> 2:03:42.320 a studio and we were laughing, and I said, okay, 2:03:42.440 --> 2:03:44.440 I said, well, just remember we were in the winnebego 2:03:44.560 --> 2:03:48.080 with y'all. So just just remember that when it came 2:03:48.200 --> 2:03:51.200 time to do their next video, they told him there 2:03:51.280 --> 2:03:54.160 was no budget for it. And they called us right 2:03:54.240 --> 2:03:56.120 up and they said, they just told us there's no 2:03:56.160 --> 2:03:57.640 budget for the video. And I said, yeah, they used 2:03:57.640 --> 2:03:59.440 to tell this that all the time. They said, well, 2:03:59.440 --> 2:04:00.920 our videos go made it. I said yeah, because we 2:04:00.960 --> 2:04:02.600 took the money out of our pocket of major videos. 2:04:03.440 --> 2:04:06.800 You know. So that's what we that's what we dealt with. 2:04:07.200 --> 2:04:10.480 And and you know, can I ask though? So we 2:04:11.000 --> 2:04:14.040 we did an episode with Babyface, and he explained that. 2:04:15.560 --> 2:04:18.800 The only way for the Face to really be successful 2:04:18.920 --> 2:04:23.720 was that those two had to separate, and you know, 2:04:24.480 --> 2:04:30.600 Antonio stopped producing and become full time CEO of the label. 2:04:31.000 --> 2:04:31.200 Yeah. 2:04:31.840 --> 2:04:35.120 Was there at any point where you thought, Okay, I'm 2:04:35.120 --> 2:04:37.480 gonna handle all the music, or you handle all the 2:04:37.600 --> 2:04:42.960 music and I'm gonna go be Barry Gordy or or 2:04:43.040 --> 2:04:44.640 Clarence yeah president. 2:04:45.120 --> 2:04:50.240 Never? Yeah, never, because that would have been Terry. Terry 2:04:50.280 --> 2:04:53.560 would have been the Barry Gordy and he didn't want 2:04:53.560 --> 2:04:56.560 to do it. He liked doing music too much. He 2:04:56.880 --> 2:04:59.840 has the business mind and all of that to do, 2:05:00.160 --> 2:05:01.880 and he would sit on the marketing calls and sit 2:05:01.960 --> 2:05:04.200 on the promotion calls. I mean, it was great because 2:05:04.240 --> 2:05:07.480 we learned, I mean, when we inherited the music department, 2:05:08.400 --> 2:05:12.840 we learned every facet of the record company business, which 2:05:12.960 --> 2:05:18.000 was fantastic. That was great. But we talked about it. 2:05:18.080 --> 2:05:20.680 It was about one of the shortest conversations we probably 2:05:20.760 --> 2:05:23.200 ever had, and it's like, Terry, would you ever think 2:05:23.240 --> 2:05:25.920 that you would want to know? That's it? That was 2:05:26.040 --> 2:05:29.160 basically it. I mean that literally, that was basically the 2:05:29.200 --> 2:05:31.440 conversation because yeah, No, he had no interest in doing that. 2:05:31.560 --> 2:05:34.840 He loved making music too much, and so no, we 2:05:34.960 --> 2:05:39.360 never really had that that that conversation and talking about perspective. 2:05:39.400 --> 2:05:42.400 The thing. The thing I remember too that I always thought, 2:05:42.520 --> 2:05:44.760 always felt very proud of and this includes La to 2:05:44.880 --> 2:05:48.760 this day when La talks about because the Face was 2:05:49.160 --> 2:05:57.080 very successful label, but La to this day says to me, like, man, 2:05:57.200 --> 2:06:00.480 y'all were like the label that everybody wanted to be 2:06:01.280 --> 2:06:04.760 because y'all had sounds of blackness, like you had like 2:06:04.920 --> 2:06:08.280 a real group that meant something, and you had, you know, 2:06:08.400 --> 2:06:11.160 men condition like a real band, like the last real 2:06:11.280 --> 2:06:17.000 band that was out there. And I remember that other 2:06:17.160 --> 2:06:22.640 companies would call for our stuff, like our promotion people 2:06:22.680 --> 2:06:24.320 and that, you know, would be like, hey, can you 2:06:24.400 --> 2:06:26.240 send me such and such and such a we go 2:06:26.360 --> 2:06:28.680 who's that? Oh that's so on so over at Atlantic 2:06:28.840 --> 2:06:31.200 or that's so and so over whatever, Like the other 2:06:31.360 --> 2:06:34.920 labels had more respect for our product than our own. 2:06:37.160 --> 2:06:40.320 Yeah exactly. So, I mean it was it was a 2:06:40.400 --> 2:06:42.360 crazy time, and you know, but but it's you know, 2:06:42.560 --> 2:06:45.200 it's about partnership. You know, there's a reason me and 2:06:45.280 --> 2:06:48.440 Terry get along and and and we've been together for 2:06:49.000 --> 2:06:51.880 five known Terry for forty five years, and there's a 2:06:51.960 --> 2:06:57.000 reason why. There's also a reason why a partnership with 2:06:57.080 --> 2:06:59.600 Herb and Jerry would have been great. We had a 2:06:59.640 --> 2:07:01.880 potent partnership that we thought we were gonna have with 2:07:01.960 --> 2:07:04.480 Doug Morris, and then Doug Morris got kicked way upstairs 2:07:04.480 --> 2:07:07.440 at Universal. But Doug Morris used to be like somebody 2:07:07.480 --> 2:07:09.880 we really vibed with. He had a piano in his office. 2:07:10.400 --> 2:07:12.080 He was great music music. 2:07:12.760 --> 2:07:14.880 Yes, yes, that's what I didn't. 2:07:15.160 --> 2:07:17.640 Yeah, no, he was, and that was the great that 2:07:17.760 --> 2:07:20.360 was cool. And when when when back when we mentioned 2:07:21.160 --> 2:07:24.240 a little red boat and when you talk about Angel Grant, 2:07:25.360 --> 2:07:29.480 that was when we did the label with Universal. That 2:07:29.760 --> 2:07:32.040 was the whole thing. That was Doug Morris's thing. And 2:07:32.240 --> 2:07:34.960 Doug loved Angel Grant and he said, I love this girl. 2:07:35.760 --> 2:07:37.880 I really get it. This is gonna be great. And 2:07:38.000 --> 2:07:39.600 he would fly when he was flying from LA to 2:07:39.680 --> 2:07:42.520 New York. He'd stop through Minneapolis along the way, listened 2:07:42.520 --> 2:07:43.680 to the sessions, that. 2:07:43.840 --> 2:07:44.240 Kind of thing. 2:07:44.320 --> 2:07:48.680 So he was into it. Around the time the record 2:07:48.800 --> 2:07:52.880 came out, he got kicked way upstairs to the head right, 2:07:52.960 --> 2:07:55.920 because this whole thing was Universal was just a little 2:07:55.960 --> 2:07:59.080 boutique label. And his whole thing was I'm gonna show 2:07:59.080 --> 2:08:00.880 people how to make a lo this is how you're 2:08:00.880 --> 2:08:02.360 going to do a label, and so we were part 2:08:02.400 --> 2:08:05.400 of that kind of master plan that he had. So 2:08:05.480 --> 2:08:07.840 when that happened, all of a sudden, now we're dealing 2:08:07.960 --> 2:08:12.480 once again with the business affairs guy. No, it wasn't Monty. 2:08:14.120 --> 2:08:16.640 He was like the attorney and stuff. He like ran 2:08:17.280 --> 2:08:20.800 stuff for a while and it was super nice guy, 2:08:20.880 --> 2:08:22.600 but just no offense. He just wasn't the music guy. 2:08:22.680 --> 2:08:24.280 Like we got into it to be like with another 2:08:24.360 --> 2:08:27.920 music guy and that didn't happen. So, you know, it's 2:08:28.000 --> 2:08:30.320 just trying to it's it's it's all about the partnerships 2:08:30.360 --> 2:08:32.440 and and and the relationships. At the end of the day, 2:08:32.800 --> 2:08:34.800 it doesn't really matter what the label is if if 2:08:34.840 --> 2:08:37.120 it's the right people in there. It's anywhere is a 2:08:37.160 --> 2:08:40.880 great home if it's the right people. But sometimes it's 2:08:41.000 --> 2:08:45.400 just not And then you find yourself, you know, you're 2:08:45.520 --> 2:08:48.200 just you just spinning your wheels basically because you're working 2:08:48.240 --> 2:08:50.080 really hard on something that you really believe in. But 2:08:50.160 --> 2:08:53.480 if the people aren't believing it with you, then nothing's 2:08:53.480 --> 2:08:55.280 going to happen with it doesn't really matter who you are. 2:08:56.840 --> 2:08:59.440 And that's it for part two of our Conversation with Jimmy. 2:08:59.520 --> 2:09:01.960 Jim thank you for tuning in. Guys. Join us next 2:09:02.000 --> 2:09:05.280 week for the third and final installment, Quest Love Supreme 2:09:05.440 --> 2:09:11.400 Flight Time Trilogy with Jimmy jam Quest Love Supreme is 2:09:11.400 --> 2:09:15.280 a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by 2:09:15.440 --> 2:09:22.240 the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 2:09:22.280 --> 2:09:25.840 the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 2:09:25.880 --> 2:09:26.680 your favorite shows.