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Speaker 1: Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode

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Speaker 1: was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey, what's up y'all?

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Speaker 1: This is Questlove And as you've noticed throughout June, we

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Speaker 1: are celebrating Black Music Month by releasing an episode every day,

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Speaker 1: So every day you're either going to hear a specially

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Speaker 1: pick QLs classic. Now we're part one, Part two, and

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Speaker 1: part three of my all time favorite QLs episode. This

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Speaker 1: is the legendary Jimmy Jam. What's up, y'all? This is

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Speaker 1: Questlove and this is QLs Classic. And this is the

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Speaker 1: second of our three part series with producer Jimmy Jam.

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Speaker 1: Last episode we explored his life in Minnesota and enjoining

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Speaker 1: the Group of Time and getting fired by Prince. And

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Speaker 1: now this episode we talk about working with artists like Charelle,

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Speaker 1: Alexander O'Neil, An Austin, New Edition, the SOS Band, the

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Speaker 1: Human Lead, and also Janet Jackson, all Top ten artists.

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Speaker 1: We also discussed the creative process in songwriting and producing

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Speaker 1: and becoming businessman.

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Speaker 2: This is a really, really great episode. I hope you enjoyed.

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Speaker 1: All Right, let's go, so obviously, you guys go to

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Speaker 1: get Alex back but how did Charelle?

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Speaker 2: We do? So yeah, so actually, yeah, so Charrell's the

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Speaker 2: next one. So Charrelle. You know, after sost band jumped off,

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Speaker 2: Clarence had signed Charrell. She was from Detroit. He said,

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Speaker 2: I signed this girl from Detroit. So she's kind of

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Speaker 2: young and raw, but I think you guys can do

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Speaker 2: something with or whatever whatever. I remember we met her

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Speaker 2: and we hung out with her, loved her, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I remember it was a reason we moved back.

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Speaker 2: Charrel was the reason we moved back to Minneapolis. We

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Speaker 2: were working in a studio. I don't remember what studio was,

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Speaker 2: but she had always done backup singing, not a lot

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Speaker 2: of lead singing, and it was just a very nervous thing.

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Speaker 2: We're always watching the clock, I can, you know, conckness

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Speaker 2: and of the of the budget, and it was just

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Speaker 2: this kind of pressure thing. So we knew these guys

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Speaker 2: in Minneapolis had a studio down their basement, and we said,

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Speaker 2: maybe we'll go back to Minneapolis and record. It'll be

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Speaker 2: like a less pressure and whatever whatever whatever. And I

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Speaker 2: remember the very first day we walked in the studio.

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Speaker 2: It was called Creation Audio and it was down the

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Speaker 2: basement of a little house. First song we did was

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Speaker 2: didn't mean to turn you on? Wow, And when that happened,

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Speaker 2: we were like, Terry just said, we need to just

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Speaker 2: move back to Minneapolis, because we can make music anywhere,

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Speaker 2: but we should just do it this kind of environment

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Speaker 2: where we can just create and not worry about the

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Speaker 2: high pressure, you know, the high prices of l a you.

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Speaker 1: Recorded in that basement. Yeah, okay, now I'm gonna start

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Speaker 1: with the creative process.

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Speaker 2: Okay, how does Jimmy jam on that synthesizer by the way,

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Speaker 2: on this various yeah that is that's didn't mean to

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Speaker 2: turn you on?

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Speaker 1: How does Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis construct a song?

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Speaker 1: Who does the lyrics, who does.

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Speaker 2: The There's a lot of different ways that it happened.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let's take I didn't mean because what I

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Speaker 1: really want to get into is that's the point. That's

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Speaker 1: the song that I felt that you really started coming

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Speaker 1: on your own as a drum programmer, especially assuming that

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Speaker 1: did you guys do your own remix edits and all

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Speaker 1: that stuff? Yes, okay, which also qlis listeners continues the

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Speaker 1: theory that all really masterful, great producers, awesome DJs. So

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Speaker 1: this is the doctor dre theory all over again? So,

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Speaker 1: because you're doing a lot of intricate stuff there, and

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Speaker 1: I was kind of saving this question for the Control album.

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Speaker 1: But who's teaching you? I mean, who's teaching you these

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Speaker 1: patches and these programming stuff? I mean I still barely

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Speaker 1: get past page three on the Drummer's Manual of any

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Speaker 1: drum machine I ever get, and there's no pro tols

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Speaker 1: and stuff. Are you editing and cutting tape? Or like,

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Speaker 1: what are you? How are you doing this stuff?

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Speaker 2: Well, a little bit of everything. So didn't mean to

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Speaker 2: turn you on though, is real simple. So the DMX,

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Speaker 2: that's a DMX drum machine, Yes he was, And so

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Speaker 2: I learned the DMX drum machine really from Leon Silvers.

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Speaker 2: He had one. He was He was one of the

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Speaker 2: people that just there was always a drum machine laying

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Speaker 2: around the studio. And he met a certain point he

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Speaker 2: made a transition where he would cut things with the

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Speaker 2: drum machine. But then the drummer from Lakeside and I

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Speaker 2: can't remember his name, was amazing. He would come back

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Speaker 2: in and play real drums because Leon still liked the

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Speaker 2: idea of real drums. But he had a metronome and

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Speaker 2: he could just lock right in. Not all drummers could

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Speaker 2: do that, could play with a drum machine, but he could.

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Speaker 2: But he always had one around. So I just would

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Speaker 2: always mess around with it. And so, uh, same thing

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Speaker 2: with the lin drum. Prince always had a line drummer around,

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Speaker 2: So I just would always mess My whole thing was

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Speaker 2: I would just pick up stuff and just start messing

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Speaker 2: around with it. And I think because I was a drummer,

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Speaker 2: it all just made sense to me. But I never

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Speaker 2: but and it's funny, you said you don't get past

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Speaker 2: uh page three. I never picked a manual up. I've

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Speaker 2: never read a drum machine manual in my life. Man bragged.

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Speaker 2: I'm not bragging. I just I just it doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 2: It's just kind of trial and errors. Just you just

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Speaker 2: kind of mess around and until you come up with

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Speaker 2: stuff that did make sense to me.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm asking because like even like in the bridge

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Speaker 1: of that song, like these these roles that you're programming, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the various handclaps yeah yeah, the s billets and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff towards the end, I'm assuming that that

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Speaker 1: stuff has to be pre programmed, as in your thinking,

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Speaker 1: in your head. Okay, four bars from the beginning or

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Speaker 1: even the beginning before this song starts again? And is

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Speaker 1: this without prote in the age of pro tools, now,

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Speaker 1: I could just punch anything in yes, one, and then

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Speaker 1: copy and paste and do whatever I please. But you

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Speaker 1: didn't have it then, So are you sitting there with

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Speaker 1: the map of the format of the song?

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Speaker 2: No? No, My thing was always I would always put

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Speaker 2: the drum beat down. That would always be the first thing.

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Speaker 2: And I knew that sometimes there was a format, like

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Speaker 2: I knew on that particular song. I kind of knew

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Speaker 2: what the format was in my mind. So but I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't ever program a song from start to finish on

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Speaker 2: the drum machine. I would physically put in a pattern

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Speaker 2: like the beginning of that song, which is just a handclaps.

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Speaker 2: I think that would be one pattern. Then i'd put

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Speaker 2: the next pattern in, which was the main you know,

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Speaker 2: whatever that was. Then the change was the booduct That

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Speaker 2: would be another thing. So turn the tape on, press play,

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Speaker 2: go to my thing. Then as the song's playing, I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking in my head, okay, now it sounds like it's

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Speaker 2: change here, and I just go to the change, and

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Speaker 2: then I go back to the main part and I

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Speaker 2: go to the change. Now. Most of the time it

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Speaker 2: worked pretty good because I kind of simpty, no, not

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Speaker 2: locked a simpty at all. I used to drive people. No,

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Speaker 2: I used to drive people crazy with that because me crazy,

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Speaker 2: because because engineers would get get it.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at Steve right now, like see I'm not alone, Steve.

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Speaker 2: Now. We'd send stuff out to get remixed, and they'd

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Speaker 2: always say, what's the simpty start time? And we go,

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Speaker 2: we don't know. You didn't lock the simpty, were just

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Speaker 2: just playing. You turned the tape on and you play,

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Speaker 2: and that that was the way we always did it

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Speaker 2: didn't mean to turn you out. Was interesting because that

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Speaker 2: song was very heavily influenced by the system. I can

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Speaker 2: see that the systems. The system did a lot of

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Speaker 2: that and that kind of stuff. The difference was they

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Speaker 2: hooked everything together so that it was sequenced, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't do that because I didn't know how to do that.

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Speaker 2: So I never sequenced. There was never a sequenced keyboard,

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Speaker 2: not even.

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Speaker 1: If you synthesize it work in your base work. No,

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Speaker 1: they're doing that by hand, by hand. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: eight minutes. Yeah, so song like innocent yo, Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: whole Innocent suite twelve minutes long.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Dallas twelve minutes playing for twelve minutes. And also

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Speaker 2: and that's and that's an interesting and and and Innocent

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Speaker 2: is an interesting one too, because that's one where we

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Speaker 2: put the drum part down first and then we had

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Speaker 2: to figure out what we were going to put on

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Speaker 2: top of it. You know, that made sense, but that

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Speaker 2: I got from Prince, because Prince would do that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, can you answer a question for me, even though

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you were, were you ever physically

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Speaker 1: there for time recordings no other than they or anything?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, because that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Like a song like the Walk, which is nine minutes,

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Speaker 1: how does he know and bar one seventy six? Mayris

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Speaker 1: we mother like that part? Like does he map out

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Speaker 1: even the dialogue? And no, you put the groove down.

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Speaker 1: So like literally on the Walk, it would basically be

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Speaker 1: him on the bass and Morris on the drums, and

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Speaker 1: they would just play for nine minutes. And so Prince

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Speaker 1: would kind of in his mind think, well, this might

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Speaker 1: be a verse, this might be a chorus, whatever, this

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Speaker 1: might be just a jam session whatever. Then there'll be

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Speaker 1: you listen to it.

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Speaker 2: Back, you put the chords over the top of it,

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Speaker 2: and then the little horn stabs and stuff you do

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Speaker 2: based on the breaks and some of that other stuff.

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Speaker 2: Like he knew, he didn't know what everything was gonna be.

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Speaker 2: You just kind of create it as it's going along

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Speaker 2: and let the drums and the bass line dictate what

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Speaker 2: you then put on top of it. So it's very

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Speaker 2: spot that's whether it's so spontaneous, because it literally was spontaneous.

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Speaker 2: Now you could go back and do it like if

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Speaker 2: you like, if there's a lick that Morris would do

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Speaker 2: a ko on the drums and then you'd hear it

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Speaker 2: and you'd go, oh, let's put a horn line on it.

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Speaker 1: Clin okay, okay, right.

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Speaker 2: But you just kind of took each piece of the

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Speaker 2: song until it was filled, until it was a full song.

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Speaker 2: So we kind of took See that's the thing, if

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Speaker 2: you think about it. We took a lot of lessons

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Speaker 2: from what Leon did, what Leon Silvers did, We took

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Speaker 2: a lot of lessons from what Prince did, and then

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Speaker 2: we took a lot of lessons from just listening to

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Speaker 2: records that were out and things that we liked and

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Speaker 2: just applied them to the way we record, you know,

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Speaker 2: but we had great teachers. I mean, we had great teachers.

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Speaker 2: There were great records. Not to mention all the records

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Speaker 2: growing up we listened to, you know, so you know

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Speaker 2: that to me is kind of the thing and so

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Speaker 2: for us. But I couldn't sequence. And that's the thing.

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Speaker 2: I never opened up a manual, so I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: I had a DM drum machine in ob eight. Okay,

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Speaker 2: they're supposed to talk to each other through the d SX,

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Speaker 2: which was the right segmen, we have a d s X.

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Speaker 1: Has never been never.

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Speaker 2: Been touched because I know how to hook it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I never knew how to hook it up. I I

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Speaker 2: and to that and tell you the only reason I

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Speaker 2: ever even started sequencing at all was one I had

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Speaker 2: a drum programmer, uh uh, or just a programmer in

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Speaker 2: general named Alex Richberg was from New York originally.

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Speaker 1: And wait, how do you know he.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And he was the one that got me

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Speaker 2: into well he was he was the one that really

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Speaker 2: started putting. We were talking earlier before we started the interview.

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Speaker 2: We were talking about how hip hop influenced R and B.

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Speaker 2: But he was a true hip hop head. That was

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Speaker 2: incorporated into our camp, which really he had the whole

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Speaker 2: kind of hip hop sensibility from the MPC. It's he

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Speaker 2: introduced me to the n PC drum machine and all

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Speaker 2: those things and the idea of that type of sampling

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Speaker 2: because I never sampled in a drum machine. I usually

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Speaker 2: just use like a little AMS sample or something like that.

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Speaker 2: So he was the one that really opened my mind

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Speaker 2: up to the incorporating hip hop into you know art

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Speaker 2: the way we did R and B records, particularly with Janet,

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Speaker 2: but with a lot of other you know acts too.

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Speaker 2: So he was a really important part. But up until

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Speaker 2: I met him, and that was, like you said, velvet

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Speaker 2: rop era so ninety seven, I guess or something like that,

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Speaker 2: I never And even after that, I remember he would

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Speaker 2: hook stuff up so it would be like ready for

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Speaker 2: a sequence, like what was the one that we did? Oh,

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Speaker 2: god till it's gone, God till it's gone. He hooked,

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Speaker 2: He hooked everything up together, and he said, make a record,

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Speaker 2: and don't do it in this box, don't do it

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Speaker 2: outside of the thing. And the reason the record sounds

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Speaker 2: the way it sounds is because I did the simplest

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Speaker 2: thing I could possibly do, which was called blunt blunt,

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Speaker 2: blunt bloom, right, because that's all I knew how to do.

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Speaker 2: And it was like okay, and I said, okay, here,

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Speaker 2: I got some men, Now what do we do now?

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Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, now we'll we'll make the song. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but you know what I'm saying. But that's why that

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Speaker 2: turned out like that. And literally, when that song was done,

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Speaker 2: I unplugged all that stuff and said, I'm not making

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Speaker 2: records like that no more.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't do it. You got a hit out of it,

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Speaker 2: got a hit out of it, and and and and

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Speaker 2: the only thing after that, and and and when I

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Speaker 2: discovered logic. See when when garage band came out, I thought, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is cute. But then when somebody said, oh logic,

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Speaker 2: it's like do you know how to we're garage band? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, that's when I said, oh, wait, okay, I

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Speaker 2: can do this. This is this makes sense to me

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Speaker 2: because he always used logic back in the day when

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Speaker 2: it was hard to use. So I said, oh, I

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Speaker 2: can figure this out. I know the theory of this.

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Speaker 2: But no, all of those records were all just played

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Speaker 2: by hand. Like I remember what was one we did.

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Speaker 2: Oh uh, I just heard it the other day. Tell

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Speaker 2: me Houston used to hotels. Yeah, but that's all right,

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Speaker 2: that's by hand, by hand, whole record. Just be good

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 1: That's not everything.

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Speaker 2: No no, no, no, that's all played, every all of

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Speaker 2: that stuff. Borrow.

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Speaker 1: That's a long that's long to be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I had but I had great chops then

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Speaker 2: because that stuff compared to what Prince had us going

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Speaker 2: through and rehearsal. See, Prince prepared me for all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: You know, Prince would have me uh like seven seven

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Speaker 2: seven that's famous. Well, I don't know if that's a

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Speaker 2: famous story. I told it to a bunch of people though.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're doing seven seven seven ninety three eleven

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Speaker 2: and my part was just doubling Terry's bassline, uh, with

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Speaker 2: this kind of ob eight sound right, and then I

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Speaker 2: do like a little string part and that was it.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So I remember we were rehearsing a song and Prince goes, Jimmy, jam,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing with your left hand? And I

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Speaker 2: said nothing, Prince, I was doing the baseline. He said,

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Speaker 2: he said you should done. He says, do the bassline,

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Speaker 2: but then you should do the chords with Monty oh,

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Speaker 2: and I said, well, it's not like that on the record,

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Speaker 2: and he says, it's got to be better than the

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Speaker 2: record that was always his Thing's got to be better

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Speaker 2: than the record. It's like, okay, cool. So now I'm like, right,

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Speaker 2: I'm cool, like cool. So we finished the song. He says,

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Speaker 2: what note are you singing on the course? And I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm not singing a note on the chorus. I said,

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Speaker 2: Monty singing, and Terry singing, and Jesse's singing, and then

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Speaker 2: Morris got the main note. Whatever, find a note? Like okay.

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Speaker 2: He says, got to be bigger than the record. It's like, okay,

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Speaker 2: bigger than the record. Okay, cool. Right, So now I'm

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Speaker 2: playing through the seven seven seven ninety three eleven. So

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Speaker 2: I'm singing, right, I'm good. We finish. He goes, why

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Speaker 2: aren't you doing the choreography? Jimmy, damn not gonna dance,

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Speaker 2: I said, Prince, I'm standing at the keyboard when I'm

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Speaker 2: supposed to. It's simple choreography. You should be able to

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Speaker 2: do it. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I'm like

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Speaker 2: doing so now I'm trying to do the like the

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Speaker 2: little four corner step was like, and I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: do my hands and I'm trying to sing the note,

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Speaker 2: and I'm frustrated. I'm just so pissed off. I cannot

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Speaker 2: do it right, and I'm just I'm pissed off. And

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Speaker 2: I think about it all night and I'm just pissed off.

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Speaker 2: So the next day we come back to rehearsal, he

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Speaker 2: says seven seven, seven ninety three eleven, and I'm just like, oh,

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Speaker 2: here we go. I start playing perfect by about the

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Speaker 2: fourth run through of it. Now I'm tipping my hat,

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Speaker 2: I'm taking my hand, my face. It became so easy.

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Speaker 2: And that taught me work ethic. That that was the

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Speaker 2: thing that taught me that he had a belief, like

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Speaker 2: a good coach, you can always do more. You can

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Speaker 2: always do more. You can't settle, you know. But he

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Speaker 2: saw that I could do more and push me to

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Speaker 2: do it. So from that moment on, all the stuff

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Speaker 2: in the studio where you can make a mistake and

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Speaker 2: who you know, whatever, But no, I mean that was

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Speaker 2: simple to play. To play ten minutes out of the

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Speaker 2: song was easy because forget about the rehearsals work.

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Speaker 1: Gad question, since you brought it up, has jelly Bean

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Speaker 1: ever played it proper once in these shows.

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Speaker 2: No, he can't, he can't play it. I've never heard

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Speaker 2: a drummer play it correctly. The drummer that plays that

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Speaker 2: the closest is is Morse. Wow. Really because yeah, because

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Speaker 2: Morris is a David Garibaldi fanatic guy and that yeah.

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Speaker 1: For our listeners that I haven't seen any other interviews,

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Speaker 1: we won't mention David Garibaldi. I guess principulled a Swiss

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Speaker 1: beat and just broke our hearts by using the stock program.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what number it was in the in

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Speaker 1: the drum? No?

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Speaker 2: I heard it was like it's one of the high ones,

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Speaker 2: like seventy seven or eighty something.

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Speaker 1: Or hero.

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Speaker 2: Do you still But it wasn't. No, it was different

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Speaker 2: different drummers. When different drummers had different beats in that

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Speaker 2: drum machine. Oh, that was That was part of the

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Speaker 2: whole kind of selling point of it was they gave

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Speaker 2: it to different drummers and different drummers programmed their own beats.

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Speaker 1: Do you still have the lin drum with those programs

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Speaker 1: in there?

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Speaker 2: It exists. I'm sure it exists, but we never had it.

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Speaker 2: That was always that was always Princess Okay, that was

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Speaker 2: always Princess, yeah one, but yeah, I know David Garabaldi,

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Speaker 2: but but but yeah, that was Morris's. Dude. If you

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Speaker 2: ever hear Morris play the drums, that's he can do

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Speaker 2: all of that tower of power stuff, like just crazy,

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Speaker 2: that's amazing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what a drum machine was at the time,

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Speaker 1: so I spent like all of eighty two doing the

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Speaker 1: hand claps and the drum machine. And someone told me

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Speaker 1: that's a drum machine. That was heartbroken because I thought

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Speaker 1: all that stuff was real. So you came back for Alex.

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Speaker 1: Was he happy to see you guys? Or was it

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Speaker 1: like it's about town? Well? No, it was actually working

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Speaker 1: at this Perkins restaurant.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so the Alex thing was so after Charrell. After

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Speaker 2: we did Charrell and Charrell was successful. The next artist

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Speaker 2: that uh Clarence brought us was a guy named Jeffrey Robinson.

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Speaker 2: And this guy was he's been stumped. Yeah, I don't think.

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Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think anybody ever heard of

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Speaker 2: him again, But and I don't even know where he

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Speaker 2: came from. We were in Minneapolis now at this point

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Speaker 2: because we'd kind of moved up and we were working

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Speaker 2: at this creation audio place we talked about earlier. So, uh, anyway,

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey comes to town. Nice looking guy. I remember he

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Speaker 2: had an ascot. He was very sophisticated in the whole

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Speaker 2: thing and whatever. Now we had already done the tracks.

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Speaker 2: We had already done, you know, if you were here

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Speaker 2: tonight and I think we had done that look at

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Speaker 2: us now and another track I can't remember. Do you

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Speaker 2: want to like I do? We had done those three

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Speaker 2: tracks with Montyextre more So we showed him the songs

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Speaker 2: and we said, okay, come on, there's what we're gonna do. Now.

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Speaker 2: We figure he's gonna come in and kill it, right.

379
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Speaker 2: So he comes in and his voice kind of he

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Speaker 2: had one of those voices with there's a real fast vibrido.

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Speaker 2: So everything was like everything, yeah, exactly, and it was

382
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Speaker 2: a little weird and we were like, okay, well whatever,

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Speaker 2: and he said, yeah, my voice is skipping. He said,

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Speaker 2: you know, we'll do it to anybody, have tea anybody,

385
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Speaker 2: you know whatever. So it's like, okay, tee. Whatever came

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Speaker 2: back the next day is the same thing came back

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Speaker 2: the next day, it was the same thing. So we

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Speaker 2: called Clarence and we said, Okay, this dude you sent

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Speaker 2: up here, I'm not sure.

390
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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 2: He's a nice looking dude, nice enough cat. I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm not really sure.

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Speaker 1: And so what do you want to do?

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Speaker 2: And we said, there's this guy named Alexander O'Neil and

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Speaker 2: he said, Alexander Neil was he irish? He said, no, Clarence,

396
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Speaker 2: he's a black dude. Man, I said, but you know

397
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Speaker 2: what kind of name was O'Neil for a black man?

398
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Speaker 2: I said, I don't know, Clarence, I said, but I said,

399
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Speaker 2: can we put him on the songs? And he said, yeah, yeah,

400
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Speaker 2: put him on there. I said, okay, cool. So he

401
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Speaker 2: went over to Alex's gig and Alex was finishing up

402
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Speaker 2: like one in the morning or whatever it was. And

403
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Speaker 2: we said, Alex, I said, we got these songs. I said,

404
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Speaker 2: can you come over and sing them?

405
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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: I can't remember when we did it that night or

407
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Speaker 2: the next day, but we like literally did the three

408
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Speaker 2: songs the next day. Like he sang them all the way,

409
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Speaker 2: just like that, like just sang them right. We sent

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Speaker 2: him to Clarence. Clarence said, who's this mother, brother, said

411
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Speaker 2: Alexander Neil. He said, man, he said bring him out here.

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Speaker 2: So we did. We brought it, got a plane, went

413
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Speaker 2: to l A. Clarence signed him on the spot.

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Speaker 1: Did you talk to Alex Versus and said, don't.

415
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Speaker 2: You know, I think I think he knew that. I

416
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Speaker 2: think he knew. We didn't have to say a thing.

417
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Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, but anyway, he got he got signed

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Speaker 2: off of that, and I don't know to this day

419
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Speaker 2: what happened to Jeffrey Robinson, but he was perfectly nice guy,

420
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Speaker 2: but he just he just didn't have it. So we

421
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Speaker 2: took those same songs, we added uh, you know, broken

422
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 2: heart can Mend and and and then we figured out

423
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 2: we knew from working with perfect album opener.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I love the nerve of you guys

425
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Speaker 1: starting out records albums with mid tempo stuff like I

426
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Speaker 1: would never thought to. Were you guys also sequencing the

427
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Speaker 1: records once you were.

428
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Speaker 2: Totally totally yeah. That was one of the great things

429
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 2: about doing records for Clarence because he totally let us.

430
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: We did the album opens out, really all the space, we.

431
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 2: Did all the we did all of the yeah, we

432
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 2: did all the all the that cover with the diner

433
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: and the whole thing. We did the video like we

434
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: conceptualized all of that stuff. I mean, obviously we had

435
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: people do it. I think a guy named Craig Rice

436
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 2: did the video. Who's does a bunch of stuff for stuff?

437
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 3: Now?

438
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 1: Right?

439
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,479
Speaker 2: Okay, he did the actually shot the video, but it

440
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: was all our concepts. I mean he basically just let

441
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 2: us do and so we got really got spoiled. I

442
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,679
Speaker 2: mean Clarence was amazing, you know, just because we told him.

443
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 2: Clarence had gone in a whole bunch of different things.

444
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: He was doing oil Company and he was doing all

445
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: these other different things, and we said, Clarence, you need

446
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 2: to be doing music and we're gonna make music fun

447
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 2: for you again, you know, because at a certain point

448
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 2: he wasn't having fun doing music, and we said, we're

449
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 2: gonna make music fun for you again. And I think

450
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 2: we did that well.

451
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: Who who opens an album with mid tempo stuff? Because

452
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: like even with SLS Band, I think no one's going

453
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: to love you opens up sands of time, sands the time. Yeah,

454
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: like that's a risk.

455
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 4: That was a jam though, because we kind of did

456
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 4: it with with what do you call it?

457
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: What's the string? Yeah, hanging on the string contemplating. Yeah,

458
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: but it's like.

459
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 2: Loos Ends totally by Nick Martinelli, biggest bier of all time.

460
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: No love los.

461
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: No my thing, my thing, my thing with Nick because actually,

462
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: you know, I've never met Nick Martinelli in my life.

463
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: He's just a name on a lighter note to me.

464
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 2: And I love hanging on a string and I love Loosens.

465
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: It was the fact that I remember I read they

466
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 2: were asked about it and they were like, oh, it

467
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 2: sounds nothing like, it doesn't have anything to do with it.

468
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 2: And I just was like, oh, come on, really, yeah,

469
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: that was the thing to me. It's like, come on, now,

470
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 2: I'm an admit that at least if I was influenced

471
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: by some I'm gonna throw it out like we just

472
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: like we just said, you're talking about the kick trom

473
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, the system man's.

474
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: I mean, but I'm saying, I mean, you know, you

475
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: could your lawyers just could have been stand by.

476
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I just I mean to me that

477
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 2: that was the thing with that. But no, the Lucien's

478
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 2: records were amazing, the fifty second Street records, I mean

479
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 2: a lot of that, I mean, and that's when we

480
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: knew that our influence wasn't just in America that it

481
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 2: was to the UK and it was like a whole

482
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: bunch of different places.

483
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: Wait, you didn't do tell me how you feel?

484
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 2: No, Nick Martinelli did that.

485
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 3: Did the BBQ bands Genie it's not hyr wish Is.

486
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 4: I don't know who did it. I mean they were

487
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 4: I think they were self produced.

488
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 3: I think bbqban bbn q ban because that always when

489
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 3: I first heard, I thought it was you guys.

490
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: Well the first see the first I don't know which record,

491
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 2: but the first ones were done by the guys that

492
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: did the Change record, which was the first ones, which

493
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 2: was a guy named Mario Malavesi and Jacques fred Petres.

494
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 2: They did the BBQ ban so because to me it

495
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: sounded like the Change record when I heard it. But yeah,

496
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 2: they were.

497
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 3: We got to get the change too at some point.

498
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, change was that was an interesting what was it?

499
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: Oh?

500
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 2: No, because we was. I heard you guys never got

501
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: paid for those times? That is that is correct? Well,

502
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: we did eventually it came out of somebody else's budget

503
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 2: though which I don't know remember who it was. But

504
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: but no, we did. We went over to Italy to

505
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 2: do the Change record. We were asked, you know, would

506
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 2: we like to produce the Change album and we said, yeah, we'd.

507
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: Love to from Italy.

508
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: The the No, the musicians are actually from America, from

509
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: the most New York musicians as a matter of fact.

510
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: But the guys that produced it, it was this Jacques

511
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 2: fred Petris and Mario MALAVESI. Uh, they were I don't

512
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 2: know whether they were Italian. I think we're French or

513
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: Italian or whatever. But the studio they recorded at was

514
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: in Italy. It was actually in Modina in Italy, home

515
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 2: of Ferrari, which I did. I didn't know back then.

516
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 2: I saw I saw we would pass by this place

517
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 2: it said Ferrari, and it didn't even dawn on me.

518
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: That's like the actual Ferrari place, because you know, one

519
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: hundred fifty dollars a week. I wasn't, you know, I

520
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 2: wasn't thinking about it Ferrari, but it was. It was

521
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 2: a great experience where there was a villa. I remember

522
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: the first day we got there, they had you know,

523
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: they cooked everything for you, they did everything right. So

524
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: the first day they brought out pasta right, and we're

525
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 2: grubbing and we kept saying yeah, more and more, and

526
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 2: they're like looking at me more and like yeah, yeah, yeah,

527
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: and we'd get done and we're like sitting back and

528
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 2: then they bring chicken and we're like aha. We didn't

529
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: know about the whole courses and the whole thing anyway,

530
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 2: but the change record it was cool and we did it.

531
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: It was like a farm in the middle of nowhere

532
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: in this villa. We were totally bored to death. We

533
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 2: would have really appreciated and I wish it would have

534
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 2: happened when were a little older, and we really would

535
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 2: have appreciated how cool of a situation it was. But

536
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: what it did is it introduced us to Otari tape

537
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 2: machines because they had Otari tape machines. Everybody had student

538
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 2: tape machines. Right this place had Otari and we loved

539
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 2: the machine and we thought, wow, this is a great machine.

540
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: So there's all kind of a little It's funny because

541
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: every story there's some little thing that has influenced or

542
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: something that we've done that's been significant, and that was

543
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: a significant thing for us to find those tape machines

544
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: because we couldn't afford a student tape machine. And when

545
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: we found those tape machines, we got a great relationship

546
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: with them and it turned out really well. There was

547
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: a guy in Change though named Timmy Allen who later

548
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 2: on Today and Our for Jive Records, but he was

549
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: the bass player. He wrote the song true Love and

550
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: he wrote on that album and a couple other things.

551
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 2: Could have been more talented guy, nicer guy, and uh.

552
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: That was a great experience making that record. And then

553
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 2: we mixed with Michael Brower in New York. And we

554
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: were always used to mixing like one song over a

555
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 2: day or two with Steve Hodge. Michael Brower was banging

556
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: out three songs a day. We were like, oh man,

557
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: I mean it was amazing. Yeah, but he was doing

558
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: all the Luther Vandraws mixes, and we wanted that Luther

559
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: Van Draws sound for the Change.

560
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Okay, Mike, were you did you see

561
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: the snare drum? He has Yogi's drum set from Never

562
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: Too Much. I'm trying to purchase it. Yeah he yeah,

563
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: he knocks him out. He also did Holler notes Private

564
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: Eye album and yeah, I'm trying to buy that the

565
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 1: Never Too Much. Matter of fact, I think searching, I

566
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: believe he said that everything that Luther's ever seen one.

567
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: That was that was a snare dr Yeah, that would

568
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: make sense, Yeah, trying to get it. That would make sense,

569
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: trying to get it.

570
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: So he knocked it out in three days.

571
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, three days.

572
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: We said, We said that these songs, three.

573
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: Songs a day, and I think there was nine songs

574
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: on the album and you were satisfied what it mixes? Yeah,

575
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: the mixes were great. I thought they were great. I was.

576
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: I was. We were just shocked because we we didn't know.

577
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: And that's when we kind of learned. The pace in

578
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: la versus the pace in New York. You know, it's

579
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: a whole different thing, and that that was one of

580
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: the ways we.

581
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: But can you trust it? I mean, have you how

582
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: many times do you have to recall a mix as

583
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: in in that day?

584
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: None, we'd recalled it none, No times that the that

585
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: was the mix. We very rarely recalled mixes. I mean

586
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: we once we got it to where we liked it,

587
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: we liked it. We very rarely recalled mixes. Okay, very rarely.

588
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: We would leave mistakes in there, and we would leave

589
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: you know, we'd get it to a certain point and

590
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: we just kind of feel like, you know, we'd always joke,

591
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: we go, okay, what five people aren't gonna buy the

592
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: record because of this thing that only we hear. It's

593
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: like does it feel good? And is it? Yeah, it's

594
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: it's good. And back then, mixing was very collaborative because

595
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: you know, you had to have four guys with their

596
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: fingers on the board and they weren't automated.

597
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: No, not the way there.

598
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: Well some of them were, but the one we were

599
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 2: working on in New York was not automated. So we

600
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: literally did the mixes and the one that we uh

601
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: even the ones that like we did at Creation Audio

602
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis, so Alexander O'Neil and Charrell and Shane well

603
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: with the recording of Change, although we mixed in New York,

604
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: but those records, no, it was all done people on

605
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: faders and everybody. Man, you know, somebody would be in

606
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: charge of the mutes and somebody would be in charge

607
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: of whatever. So it was a performance and it was

608
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: just about getting the best performance. It wasn't even about

609
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: recalling the mix. It was just making a great performance.

610
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: And I missed that that that was actually fun. I

611
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: enjoyed that part of it.

612
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,479
Speaker 3: Okay, talk about your early forais into hip hop. Okay,

613
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 3: let's talk about Captain Bad Times and the iced Teas Cold.

614
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. So those records were basically because we would hang

615
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: out at a studio in l A called Studio Masters,

616
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: and that was where Leon Silvers did a lot of

617
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: his records. And I remember there's this guy named Cletus

618
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: Robinson and he owned a record company called Saturn Records

619
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: as the exactly and this dude looks like lives like

620
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: his name sounds is how this.

621
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: Dude and.

622
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: This dude had I don't know he had this record

623
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: and he just said, man, you know, the track ain't

624
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: happening on you know, we need a track for this

625
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: you know, record and stuff. And we were like, okay, cool,

626
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: and we just moved into the ob eight and the

627
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: and the lin drum and just got down and you know,

628
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: once again, Bad Times is another perfect example of just

629
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: I just played that start to finish, the baseline, there's

630
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: nothing say quinst and just played it from start to finish,

631
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: and we didn't hear the singing and all that stuff

632
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: and the rap, which nobody really used the rap. Everybody

633
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: flipped it over to the right. But the girl's name

634
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: was Kim Ball and she was who was her story?

635
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: She was signed to a group that was signed to

636
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: United Artists. Remember the group Enchantment. Yes, okay, so she

637
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: was in Gloria, Yeah, Gloria, right, So she was involved

638
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: with somebody there, Mike maybe Michael Stokes, maybe his girlfriend

639
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: or or something. And uh, anyway, so they said this

640
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: girl kim Ball is gonna sing. We said, okay, great,

641
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: and we didn't hear it until it was actually done.

642
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: All we did was go in and put the little

643
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: track together for it, and we loved it. We were like,

644
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: oh man, this is funky. And we were trying to

645
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: make I was trying to make a D Trained record,

646
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 2: quite honestly, because because Hubert Eves was from Minnesota.

647
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: And I know.

648
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 4: What, Yeah, it makes sense now that you say it,

649
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 4: but I hear it from Chicago, but.

650
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: I don't know.

651
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

652
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: Well, we knew him from Minneapolis because I remember we

653
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: got a D Train record. I have no idea to

654
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: this day where it showed up, but it was on

655
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: our time tour bus and I remember seeing the record

656
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: and it said D Train and we all looked at

657
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: it and it was a white label, and we were like,

658
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: D Train, what the heck is D Train? And then

659
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: we started hearing the record, and I said, oh, this

660
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: is the record we got and I looked at it

661
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: and it was Hubert Eves and I said, oh, this

662
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: is Hubert E's record. And we just knew him from Minneapolis.

663
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: We were like, oh, there's Minneapolis boys. So we were

664
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: always you know, like happy and proud of the stuff

665
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: he did. So yeah, so I don't know, man, but yeah,

666
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: that was that. And and the same thing with the

667
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: Coldest Rap and that we didn't know we did the track.

668
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: It was one of those things where you know, we

669
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,239
Speaker 2: just kind of went in and did it. I think

670
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: we got five hundred bucks for it or something. And

671
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 2: that was and that was you didn't know they were

672
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: going to be a rap record. We didn't know what

673
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: they were going to be. It was just gonna be

674
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: it's just gonna be put put a track together, and

675
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: you know, it is what it is. I think we knew, yes,

676
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: I actually I do think we knew they were going

677
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: to be rap records, but we didn't know, you know,

678
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: iced Tea. We knew the names sort of Captain Rap.

679
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: I knew because he had done some other stuff. I

680
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: think I used to play one of his records even

681
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: before that. If I'm not mistaken. So I ran into

682
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: him by the way at the New Edition star ceremony.

683
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: He came up to me and he said we worked

684
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 2: together before, and I said we did. He said, yeah,

685
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: he said on that on that Bad Times, I was

686
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 2: the rapper on that. I said, oh, nice to meet you.

687
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 2: It's very funny, man. So yeah, but no, that that

688
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: was kind of our first, our first foray into hip hop,

689
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: and I had it as interesting. I remember I was

690
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 2: coming from American Music Awards or something, and uh it

691
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: was when Kid Rock was really jumping off huge and

692
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 2: I remember we were walking into a door at the

693
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 2: same time and Kit and he runs into me. Kid

694
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 2: Rock runs into me and he said, oh, Man, sorry,

695
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: sorry man. I said no, no, I'm sorry, man, after you?

696
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: After you? And he said, hey, man, Jimmy Jam And

697
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: I said, hey, what's up man? He goes, I can't

698
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: stand he.

699
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: Said.

700
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 2: I said, Man, you know that song? He said, Man,

701
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: I'm from Detroit, I know all of y'all shit. I said, okay, cool,

702
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: you know. So it was very cool man. But that

703
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: record to this day, Man, we were just in Japan

704
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: and Korea and they were talking about that record over there.

705
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 3: Where did those two records come in the timeline, like,

706
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: were those before.

707
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: We were Yeah, they're probably before SOSH, Yeah, before before

708
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: SOOS because it's probably we were still working like real

709
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 2: to real first climax stuff, Dynasty stuff. So this is

710
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: more of an eighty two type of thing, and SOS was.

711
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: More of a drum machine time.

712
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a distorted Oh you know, No, it wasn't

713
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: a lin drum. What the heck was that thing? That's

714
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: a great question question. I can't remember what the heck

715
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: it was. It was something so distorted and wrong.

716
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: No, it's right, right, right, I take it through that record,

717
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: but you're trying to figure out how you trying to

718
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: figure out what drummer scene you used for that?

719
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? What was that thing? It was whatever was laying

720
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: around that day at the studio. It wasn't anything that

721
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 2: we brought. It was whatever was laying around.

722
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I brought it. Now can I jump in nineteen

723
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: eighty six? Thank you?

724
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: It's a big Jim.

725
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 1: So, how's the idea even come up that Janet Jackson

726
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 1: wants to work with you guys?

727
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 2: Okay, so the story there is there was Okay, so

728
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: John McLean, who was an R guy at at m Records.

729
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: He had called us to work on Howard Johnson and

730
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: yep so, which so fine is one of the best

731
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: records of all time to me. I mean, this wasn't

732
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 2: quite an amazing record, but anyway, so this was like

733
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 2: the follow up album and they he called us and said,

734
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 2: you want to do some stuff on our Johns and

735
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: we said, yeah, yeah, that'd be cool. So anyway, we

736
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: did a couple of things on him. It didn't jump

737
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: off big or anything, but it was great working with him.

738
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 2: Very talented dude. And I remember we were really into

739
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: Steve Arrington at that point, and so we did this record,

740
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: called me yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it worked. So anyway,

741
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: so then the next thing he asked us did we

742
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: want to do? He said, hey, the girl an Atlantic

743
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 2: Star is going to make a solo album. Do you

744
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 2: want to work with Aaron Bryan Do you want to

745
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: work with her? And I said, oh, yeah, we love

746
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: Sharon Bryant. Yeah that was cool. So we you know,

747
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 2: we were like, okay, we're excited, We're ready to go.

748
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: So then we get a phone call and he goes

749
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: and we started working on tracks for her and stuff.

750
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: So he got a phone call and he just said, hey,

751
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know how to say this, but

752
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: you know, she doesn't really want to work with y' all.

753
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: She's got yeah, she's got another producer she wants to

754
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: work with her whatever. I guess her boyfriend or whoever

755
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: was at the time, right, So we were like so

756
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 2: we were like, okay, cool, you know, that's that's cool whatever,

757
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: And he said, man, he's not embarrassed, man, he said. So,

758
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: he said, what is it? Is there something else on it?

759
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 2: You know that that you would like to work on

760
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: for us, you know whatever? And we said, well, send

761
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 2: a roster. So they sent a roster and me and

762
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: Terry looked at the roster and we're going down the names,

763
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 2: and then Janet Jackson. We both stopped on Jana Jackson,

764
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: looked at each other and said Janet Jackson. So we

765
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: called John and we said, John, we want to do

766
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 2: Janet And he says, oh, okay, yeah, that's cool. How

767
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: many songs you want to do? Three? Four songs? I said, no,

768
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 2: we want to do the whole album? You do? Yeah?

769
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: Was that an even option back then? Because as far

770
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: as I know, we're illmatic esque productions A thing on

771
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: R and B records back then there are different producers,

772
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: I mean, the first two Jet albums. Okay, you're right,

773
00:38:58,800 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: you're right, you're right.

774
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 3: Speaking of uh, did you guys, did you guys choose

775
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 3: Janet because of Jesse working with her on the previous Jesse.

776
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: Jesse had yes, because what happened was we actually went

777
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: we're in a session with her on the first album

778
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: that Renee and Angela did half of it, and I

779
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: think Leon Silvers at the other half, and we were

780
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: actually in the session with her and actually, don't give

781
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: up this good thing. Yeah, don't give up this good thing.

782
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: And the one I loved was come, Come give your

783
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: love to me. Yeah, that was the one I loved.

784
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: And so we knew she was cool. She was big

785
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 2: fans of the time. She sat front row when we

786
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: played Long Beach when we couldn't play the form and

787
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: played Long but she sat front row with her mom,

788
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: and she came back after and met us and stuff.

789
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: She was so sweet and all that. So anyway, so

790
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: we knew already, we felt like we already kind of

791
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: had a little bit of a relationship with her. But

792
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: when Jesse did Fast Girls and that, we just thought, wow, Okay,

793
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: that's more, she's got like a little attitude to her

794
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: because we knew young she had an attitude because when

795
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 2: she was doing the whole May West thing and doing

796
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 2: the variety show stuff, she always had such a personality

797
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 2: and sassly right, So we were like, that's what needs

798
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: to be happening with her. To me, is that kind

799
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: of thing. So that's me and Terry were both thinking

800
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: that same thing. So that was kind of the idea.

801
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: So we said, Okay, cool, that's that's what we're gonna do.

802
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: That's what we'll do. And uh so we had a

803
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: meeting and I remember at the meeting it was her

804
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 2: dad and her and John and I remember they played

805
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 2: Heat of Heat by Patty Austin, which was the current

806
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: record we had just done.

807
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 5: And she because she has such the craziest as you

808
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 5: I wouldn't know.

809
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 2: That level, you know what though she it was funny.

810
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 2: We didn't know her well enough to know her sense

811
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: of humor. She did. She did those three songs in

812
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: like a day. Oh my god, we were sitting there.

813
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 2: She's because we booked three days. We figured we'll do

814
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 2: a song a day, and she tore through whatever. The

815
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: first song we did she tore through it that leads

816
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: in the background so fast, and me and Terry are

817
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: sitting there looking at each other, going, is there something

818
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 2: else to do? Patty? You want to do the next song? Yeah,

819
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: let's do it. Okay cool? And then we did it,

820
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 2: and then we were like, uh, okay, well we'll do

821
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 2: the next one tomorrow. I guess it's because we read unbelievable.

822
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: I never heard somebody sing that fast, But so we

823
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: didn't really get to know her, like, she had a

824
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: great personality, she was very nice. We were just too young,

825
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 2: nervous doing something for Quincy Jones. Oh my god, we're

826
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 2: trying to do string arrangements and we're trying to like, oh,

827
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: we got to impress Quincy because he's trusting us with

828
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 2: this at this point. Oh my god, yes, oh that's

829
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 2: Quincy Jones.

830
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: Man, Come on man, But y'all, mus I mean, at

831
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,959
Speaker 1: what point we all like, yeah, like, what point were

832
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 1: you like all right kiss my ass princes? Uh? Control? No?

833
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 2: Never, really, I don't I don't think we. I don't

834
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 2: think we've ever felt that way.

835
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: Because to me, were you in the audience the night

836
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: that he was telling you guys about I want to

837
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: hear this on your records. Yes, I mean I never

838
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: took it as a real insult. I just like, Okay,

839
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: he's giving you guys props, Like what did you.

840
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 2: I took it as an insult because, yeah, because he

841
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: he came by. He came by. I remember he drove

842
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: by my house right after the Control album came out,

843
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 2: and uh, he like threw the CD out the window

844
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 2: or did something you yeah.

845
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 4: You yeah, legendary.

846
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was. It was weird. And I remember

847
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: thinking that because right well, I realized my mom told me.

848
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: My mom was the one that would always say, you know,

849
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: when people do that, it means that they're really they're

850
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 2: jealous of you for something. And I'm going because I'm

851
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: always thinking to myself, how the hell is Prince jealous

852
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: of me? I said that dude is the most talented

853
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: dude ever in the history of people period. How is

854
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: he jealous of me? I can't even I nowhere near him.

855
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: Cause you're you're inside the bubble and couldn't be outside

856
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: to see it. But yeah, well that literally took over

857
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 1: black music.

858
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 2: No get I get the result of what it was,

859
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: but I never I never felt like I just felt

860
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: like we did our job like we like we set

861
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 2: out to do, like what the Control album, our whole

862
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: thing was and I think I've been quoting on this

863
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 2: a few times. In our neighborhood that we lived in

864
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: at the time there was in l because we were

865
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: we had still had a place in la and we

866
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 2: would drive up the street and you'd hear music blasting

867
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: out of everybody's homes, right, and we just wanted to

868
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 2: be that record that everybody was blasting out their home,

869
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: and so it had to be funky, it had to

870
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 2: be aggressive, it had to be loud. There was already,

871
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: I mean, females weren't really making those kinds of records.

872
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: Those records were all rap records or whatever, and we

873
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: wanted to make that kind of record because we felt

874
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: she had the attitude to pull it off. And so

875
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: that was the whole thing. And that so the one

876
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: of the best days of my life was actually when

877
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: the album came out, and I remember driving up that

878
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: same street and hearing that record blasting out of everybody's house.

879
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 2: And at that point, forget whether where we're at the

880
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: charts or where we're at it sales, I felt like

881
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 2: we did what we accomplished. I mean, we accomplished what

882
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 2: we set out to do, and I hadn't really felt

883
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: that way honestly as a producer. I never felt like

884
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 2: we The first record we did that actually turned out

885
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 2: in real life the way we heard it in our

886
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 2: heads was The Finest by the soos Man. Oh wow,

887
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 2: that record. We heard it in our heads because we

888
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: said we got to switch up from the eight h

889
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: eight thing. We did browed Love on that album, right,

890
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: because they said, because the record company is like, well,

891
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 2: you got to have another one that sounds like. We said, okay, fine,

892
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 2: we do, we'll do that, but we got yeah, but

893
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 2: asked for like a yes, yes they did. They did,

894
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 2: Yes they did. They said yeah, no they did. It

895
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: was and and so we were like, okay, yeah, we'll

896
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 2: do that, but that's not what we really hear for them.

897
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 2: And when we did The Finest, it was like in

898
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: our heads we were like, this is the cut for them,

899
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 2: like good boom boom boom.

900
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 4: It was about the space of that song. My favorite

901
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 4: part of that song is just the fact that it

902
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 4: stops right. That stops right, Well, that's the finest.

903
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's something about because that song is sophisticated,

904
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: And I always thought the saw the span was really sophisticated,

905
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: because even from taking your time to do it right,

906
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 2: you do not hearing songs that have Glockenspiel in it,

907
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. So that was the thing.

908
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 2: But that record actually came out the way we thought

909
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: it would. We wanted it to come out. What is

910
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: it about?

911
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: I think this is one of the first questions I

912
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: asked you on Twitter when I realized that that was

913
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: actually you.

914
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: Hey, I finally got verified by the way, Yeah, I

915
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: saw you. We did that.

916
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, okay, daun damn fun who.

917
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 2: Uh?

918
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: What is it about E flat? I know you said, like,

919
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the song calls for in my head,

920
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: that's what I make it. But I mean a lot

921
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: of your is there by design. Do you feel that

922
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: that that E flat minor is like the black the

923
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: black black key, like that experience?

924
00:46:59,200 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 2: No?

925
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: I mean some of you, your your best funk songs.

926
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: For what have you done for me lately? To the

927
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: finest two? You know a lot of your grittier, funkier

928
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: songs are done in that key, which I mean that

929
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: it allows you to just hit all the black keys

930
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: and not. It's never a wrong key, that's right. But

931
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: what what D minor was for James Brown? Almost feel

932
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: like E flat Well that I used to identify as

933
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder's key, but now that's the jam and Lewis

934
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: key to me, Like, is it something about or is

935
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: it just the singing as you pick their range is

936
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: strictly in that that particular or am I overthinking it?

937
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 2: Let's go with that. No, you're not over you're not

938
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 2: overthinking it. But the simple, the simple answer is because

939
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: it's a funky ass key. It's it's it's funky because

940
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 2: E traditionally was always the lowest note on a bass,

941
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 2: on a traditional bass, if you go one half step lower,

942
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: it's even funkier because it's all about just the lowness

943
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: of it. And it was something that a as a

944
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 2: keyboard player, say, bass player couldn't do that they could

945
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: tune down, I guess if they wanted to. But no,

946
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: the bass player couldn't go to E flat, but a

947
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: keyboard player could so because most of our stuff was

948
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 2: that's right.

949
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 1: All your E flat joints are a keyboard.

950
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 2: They're all key.

951
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, that makes sense. I don't know I I

952
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: have a personal disdain for for week E minor songs

953
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: like you know, because basically it's like, Okay, thank you

954
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: for letting me be myself. I'm taking Rhythm Nation for this.

955
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to insult. I'm just saying that that's

956
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: such a mountain climb. I feel like everybody that does

957
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: anything in an E minors like that, they're they're they're

958
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,439
Speaker 1: the mountain Fiji. The mount Fiji to them is thank

959
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: you for letting me be myself. Okay, I'm in here

960
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: from get the Funk out in my Face to all

961
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: those songs yes in that key, yes, which I mean

962
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: there's some cool ones like maybe Glide by Pleasure or

963
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, but I don't know. I'm not

964
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: a fan of funk bands that that do songs in

965
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: that key, right, And I know it's supposed to be

966
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: in that.

967
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: Key because it's easy to play, it's the lowest, but

968
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: it's also the lowest, it's the lowest, so it's just

969
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 2: it's kind of turns out to be the funkiest key.

970
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 2: But so the idea of going a half step lower

971
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: was always just something about it fakes an E flat

972
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 2: and I think fakes right, Yeah, and uh, I think

973
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 2: Encore is in E flat too. Ye, sure, they are,

974
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 2: Like a lot of your dance classics are in that key,

975
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: which I just think it's a funky key.

976
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: It is.

977
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 3: Before we get back to Janet and this is going

978
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 3: to circle back around, can we talk about the Secret?

979
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 2: Sure?

980
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 3: What was the secret? And where did all those songs

981
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 3: end up that we're going to be on that project?

982
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 2: Hah okay. So so when we were booted from the time,

983
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: the thing that people always ask were I was when

984
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: are you guys going to put another band together? And

985
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: our answer always was never, because we've already played with

986
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: the best band we could ever play with, So we're

987
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 2: never going to put a band together. However, we will

988
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 2: do a project and it'll be me and Terry and

989
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 2: we'll probably add Our fantasy at that time was to

990
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: add a guitar player girl, and we were going to

991
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 2: be called the Secret and we did. We started recording

992
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: tracks for what we thought was going to be a

993
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: secret album, probably around eighty four five something like that.

994
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: Some of those tracks have seen the light of day.

995
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: What have you done for Me lately? Was a secret track? WHOA,

996
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 2: there's another song on that same album called You Could

997
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 2: Be Mine. Yeah, that was a secret track and h

998
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 2: and as a matter of fact, I'll tell you, I'll

999
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 2: tell you that what have you done for me lately?

1000
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: In our story? So, we had done the album. The

1001
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 2: album was totally done. We sent it in. John McLain

1002
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 2: listened to it and as all in our people always say,

1003
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: I just need one more. And I'm like, going, John,

1004
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 2: you got control, you got nasty, you got When I

1005
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: think of you, I mean, you got your singles? Man,

1006
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: what do you need? I just need there's something more.

1007
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: I need one more. So anyway, you.

1008
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: Planned on a four to four eight song?

1009
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we were done. We thought we were good.

1010
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: In your mind? What was the fourth song on Satday?

1011
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 2: That I don't know because we didn't know because we

1012
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: hadn't at that point, we hadn't sequenced it. It was

1013
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 2: not sequenced. It was just that we just felt we

1014
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: were done. We got enough songs, were good.

1015
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: Okay, So did you record any extra or were those

1016
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: nine songs it?

1017
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 2: We did record? Actually extra? We recorded a song. Actually

1018
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: there was a guy named Hammy Uh that played with Yeah,

1019
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 2: it was with Real to Reel. He played with Real

1020
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 2: to Reel and He actually did a song called the

1021
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 2: Hungry for Your Love that we recorded with Janet's really good.

1022
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 2: It's it's very come give your love to me. It's

1023
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: kind of in that vain because we said, can we

1024
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 2: get a song that has that kind of you know,

1025
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 2: that kind of new wave pop type of thing.

1026
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, did he get replaced by he doesn't even know

1027
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: I'm alive?

1028
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 2: No, he doesn't even know I'm a live?

1029
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 1: Wait? Can I ask if we mentioned yeah? Can I guess?

1030
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: Was that the first song you guys worked? Yes, fucking

1031
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: I'm a genius. I gus, okay, thing you have a radio?

1032
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: Shut up, Steve, Okay, that's all I wanted to know.

1033
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: Steveson ship for three hours? How do you tell that

1034
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: was the first one? Like it just so so different.

1035
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 4: It just felt like but the thing I still feeling

1036
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 4: each other out, Like.

1037
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: He doesn't even know I'm alive is probably the only

1038
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: thing that's really close to like Bookie, Oh okay, Like

1039
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: that felt like it could be released in eighty three,

1040
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 1: like it could have been on one of the first

1041
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: two hours. I almost didn't believe you guys did it?

1042
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 1: And all right to slight confession. When I was working

1043
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: at music land at sam Goodies in high school, this

1044
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: cat named Spencer. Yeah, have me believe that he was

1045
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,959
Speaker 1: the Spencer Bernard that that song?

1046
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's great.

1047
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you just havn't worked with me. Yeah, I

1048
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: was gollable in high school. Okay, but yeah, it it

1049
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: fit for a reason. It's a like he doesn't even

1050
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 1: know I'm alive. Was I felt that was the blackest

1051
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: record as far as the two step barbecue boogie, like

1052
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: it felt like on the beat by the bb Q

1053
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: ban or that sort of thing. Whereas even though the

1054
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: other songs were relentlessly funky, Yeah, it was class and polished,

1055
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: and I felt that you guys are really planting your

1056
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: flag in Minneapolis and saying now we're the standard.

1057
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's a great bridge between you know, the

1058
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 3: songs and then the two songs and end the record too.

1059
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah well okay, so yeah, so you're absolutely right. It

1060
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 2: was the first song we did. And what and how

1061
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 2: it happened was when we knew we were going to

1062
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 2: record Janet Spencer Bernard and Lisa Keith were married. Ah,

1063
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 2: and uh so Spencer did production and writing and stuff

1064
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 2: for us. He had his own band called King's English

1065
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 2: that never ever saw the light of day, but was great,

1066
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 2: very title, very duran duranish, uh type type of stuff

1067
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 2: they were doing. Black dudes, White dudes is white white.

1068
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 2: Spencer's white making love.

1069
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: That's wow. Yeah, wait you completely her super Nerds? Yes

1070
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: you you finally I didn't know that.

1071
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 2: Yeah you should. Actually, her solo album is very good.

1072
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 2: It's very good. She's an amazing singer in the first time.

1073
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 2: I know.

1074
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 6: I'm just happy I know who she is. And she

1075
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:53,479
Speaker 6: sounds so black when she sings.

1076
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: That's hell yeah, because Janet is singing backgrounds on that, right.

1077
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: Lisa, they're singing, Yeah, that's Lisa's lead. Yeah, they're singing

1078
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: together on the background.

1079
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 1: Damn.

1080
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 2: Thought Lisa was like, so Lisa was like our backgrounds

1081
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 2: our background, secret weapon. Like she was on a ton

1082
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 2: of records if you remember the record, yes, yeah and

1083
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:18,720
Speaker 2: she yeah she's white.

1084
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, like Bobby call well.

1085
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 2: Yeah people records. Why should I cry known to him?

1086
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 2: That's her on that and uh, trying to think there's

1087
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: another one that she's pretty really prominent on too. Uh

1088
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 2: She's I'm blanking now, but no, she she was like

1089
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 2: the secret weapon.

1090
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: She used to that Heroin was that heroine Pillow as

1091
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,439
Speaker 1: well on her album. Was on that one.

1092
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 7: Yes, yeah Pillow, yep record, yep, Jesus Christ. Okay, so

1093
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 7: thank you very much. We only made eighty six.

1094
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he doesn't know him alive. Just to just

1095
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 2: wrap it up. Yes, So we said to them we're

1096
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 2: going to be doing Janna Jackson and if you guys

1097
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: got a song, do it. So they wrote it, she

1098
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 2: demoed it, and for us it was it became the

1099
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 2: song that when Janet came to town and we you know,

1100
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 2: the story is that we didn't do anything in the

1101
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 2: studio for like four or five days. It's absolutely true.

1102
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 2: She came, hung out, got to know her, talked, so

1103
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 2: that's important.

1104
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, research, research.

1105
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 6: Wasnner tonight.

1106
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 2: That was no, that was that was that was the

1107
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 2: key to that, and and and and so so truly

1108
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 2: she came. I mean, we went to movies, we went

1109
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: we hung out at the lakes because the lakes and

1110
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 2: Minnesota are amazing and in the summertime and this was

1111
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 2: like June, and uh, we just kind of hung out.

1112
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,479
Speaker 2: And then after about three or four days, she said,

1113
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 2: what are we going to start working? And we said, uh, well,

1114
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 2: we've already been working and we showed her the lyrics

1115
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: to Control Wow, and she said, oh wait, this is

1116
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 2: what we've been talking about, because she told us a

1117
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 2: whole story about leaving home and she's going to get

1118
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 2: her own place and this whole thing. And we just

1119
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 2: worked making mental notes and then Terry would go home

1120
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 2: and like jot notes down and stuff, and we started like, okay,

1121
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 2: let's figure this out. And so when once we said

1122
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: that to her and she says, well, wait, so the

1123
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 2: album's going to be like whatever we're thinking about, and

1124
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 2: like whatever, I think that's what the album's going to be.

1125
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,479
Speaker 2: And it's like yeah. It was like a light bulb

1126
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 2: win in her head. She was like, okay, well I

1127
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: want to talk about this and.

1128
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: I want to do this.

1129
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: I want to do I mean, it's like it was like,

1130
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: because think about her albums before. If we're all, Leon

1131
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 2: did a bunch of songs going and sing them, you know,

1132
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 2: Jesse did some songs going and singing. Jorgio Moroder did some,

1133
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 2: or people a lot of or whoever was going and

1134
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: sing them. I mean, that was it. We were actually

1135
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 2: asking her input and she and it was at a

1136
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 2: point where she really had something to say, and she

1137
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: didn't think of herself as a songwriter, and technically she

1138
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 2: probably wasn't technically a songwriter. But the idea is and

1139
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 2: what we talked about were what became the records?

1140
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: I mean the credit on the record.

1141
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, because the records wouldn't exist without her. We

1142
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 2: wouldn't write, we wouldn't write control without her.

1143
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 1: So what point are you guys actually in a room

1144
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: together as you three and writing songs on that album?

1145
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 2: Not at all?

1146
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: Okay?

1147
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 2: No, No, that album was sitting in a room like this,

1148
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 2: telling stories and like you would say something and we go,

1149
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 2: that's cool, and we write it down and then our

1150
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 2: wordsmiths sometimes who tell Terry is Terry's I call him

1151
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 2: lyric masters. See the rhyming dictionary up there.

1152
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're right.

1153
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 6: Okay, So did Nasty come from like a funny story,

1154
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 6: because I'm trying to figure out these are okay.

1155
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,919
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, nasty. Nasty came from one of the first

1156
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 2: days we were hanging around. So there there.

1157
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: Was a club James Debart's story.

1158
00:59:55,080 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 2: There there was a there was a club downtown Minneapolis.

1159
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: I can't remember what it was called, and we were

1160
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 2: all hanging out and we were actually we weren't even

1161
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 2: in the club. We were just kind of it was

1162
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 2: kind of in a building that was like an office building,

1163
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 2: so that you could just hang in the lobby. You

1164
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:14,479
Speaker 2: never had to really go in the club. You could

1165
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 2: just hang out, right, So we were all just kind

1166
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: of hanging out, and these guys came up and started

1167
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 2: talking to Janet and they were kind of saying some

1168
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 2: kind of interesting things to her. Right, so we're kind

1169
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 2: of watching, We're you know, we're just kind of watching.

1170
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 2: We're just not doing anything right, and she keeps looking

1171
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 2: over at us, like with the come over and help

1172
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 2: me look, and we just kind of stand there and

1173
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 2: we're just kind of looking at her. And then people

1174
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 2: start saying to us, I think those guys are bothering her,

1175
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:43,959
Speaker 2: why don't you you're gonna go over and say something.

1176
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 2: We're like, well, we ain't gonna let nothing that we

1177
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 2: got an eye on it. We're all good. So after

1178
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 2: about ten minutes or so, she comes over to us

1179
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 2: and she goes and she's funny because you got to

1180
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 2: remember it. She's like eight, I think, just a turn eighteen.

1181
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 2: At that time, it was still very sheltered, very like

1182
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 2: this little girl, and she said, did you see what

1183
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 2: those guys were doing? And we were like, well, they

1184
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 2: were talking to you, Oh my god, but the things

1185
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 2: they were saying, and oh my god, why didn't.

1186
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: You come over and help me?

1187
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 2: And Terry said, well, obviously you didn't need any help.

1188
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 2: You're standing right here right now, and she said, oh yeah,

1189
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 2: I guess that's right. So those kind of moments needed

1190
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 2: to happen for her to get to that. But she said,

1191
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 2: I don't like nasty boys. I don't like nasty something something,

1192
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 2: and Terry's like, okay, and that's it. I mean. So

1193
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 2: that was the way. So the hanging out part where

1194
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 2: we weren't working, we said to her, you know, we're

1195
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 2: already working.

1196
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: So we need a life experience for you to sing,

1197
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: to sing about it exactly, because that's what that was,

1198
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 1: what's gonna make the album. It's good and it's her, yeah,

1199
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: And and that was the whole thing. So he doesn't know.

1200
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 2: I'm alive was basically because it was already done when

1201
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 2: we went into the studio. We said, okay, we got

1202
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 2: a song for you, and we just went in and

1203
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 2: sang it. It was already demoed, it was already done,

1204
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 2: and that gave us our insight on what notes she

1205
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 2: could hit, what couldn't she hit, just all kinds of things.

1206
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 2: It's kind of right kind of mic to use on her.

1207
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 2: It was almost like the test ground for her, but

1208
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 2: also a song that we all liked. So from that

1209
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 2: point then everything else kind of jumped off from that.

1210
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 4: How did you Oh, I was gonna say my question

1211
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 4: for you about Janet her background vocals. You talked about

1212
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 4: how you were a big fan of American and all

1213
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 4: that stuff. To me, that was always her superpower, most

1214
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 4: so than even the dancing and all of that. Like,

1215
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 4: her background vocals was always amazing, Right, So did you

1216
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,959
Speaker 4: guys did you arrange it? Was it just by ear

1217
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 4: or as a keyboard player? Did you like actually play

1218
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 4: it out and say, okay, this is your note Janet?

1219
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 2: That with Janet I would always do. I would always

1220
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 2: have her sing the notes in the chord, which isn't

1221
01:02:55,640 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 2: the normal way to stack vocals, because what happens the course,

1222
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 2: when you're playing some amount of keyboard, you have notes

1223
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 2: that are dissonant to each other where they're right next

1224
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 2: to yeah, and it always singers are they can't hear that?

1225
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 2: Most of the time it throws them off to hear that,

1226
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 2: and so but we worked up over time. We worked

1227
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 2: up a thing where she would just trust me, like

1228
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 2: I'd give her a note and it would totally sound

1229
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:20,919
Speaker 2: so wrong, but.

1230
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 1: Without using great example, a great example, that's a great example,

1231
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: loves you as well. Yeah, oh Jesus Christ. Yeah yeah.

1232
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 2: So so that was the thing. But she would she

1233
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,479
Speaker 2: would just do it, and I got a certain point

1234
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 2: she would quit going. She wouldn't even say that doesn't

1235
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 2: sound right. I would just go trust me, and she goes, oh,

1236
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 2: I trust you, I know, and I'd be okay. And

1237
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 2: she also had the stamina where she would stay in

1238
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 2: there for hours and hours and hours, and we'd stack

1239
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 2: every note at least four times, so if it was

1240
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: a you know, four times that note at least yeah wait,

1241
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,959
Speaker 2: there's no pro tools though, well okay, so no, because

1242
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: we didn't start with forty we only had twenty four.

1243
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 2: So what we would do is you would make we

1244
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 2: would take the vocals, but everything would always get bounced

1245
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 2: down on the spot, so we would and it was

1246
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 2: it was always strategic, like you you could you could

1247
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 2: have we'd make a work, we'd make a work tape.

1248
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 2: Remember we're not going off of we're not using Simpty,

1249
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 2: all right, so we so you can. So you could

1250
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 2: do that. You could do the track and let's say

1251
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 2: you used I don't know, nineteen tracks or whatever. You

1252
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 2: could take those two tracks, bounce them to two, bounce

1253
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 2: them to two tracks, right, put them on to a

1254
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 2: half inch tape or whatever. Play the half inch tape

1255
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 2: back to the twenty four track, and now you have

1256
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 2: two tracks. Now that leaves you with twenty two tracks

1257
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 2: to work with technically twenty one because you couldn't go

1258
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 2: on the Simpty track and you weren't supposed to go

1259
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 2: to the track next to the Sempty twenty three. But

1260
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 2: we always he still did that rule. Yeah, we broke

1261
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 2: that rule. So anyway, so that would give us a thing.

1262
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 2: So if we did a harmony, so let's say we

1263
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 2: did sixteen tracks of a four part harmony four times

1264
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 2: sixteen tracks, we'd take that harm and he bounced it too,

1265
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 2: two tracks, so now it would just be a stereo mix.

1266
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 2: We couldn't change it, and we would always trust that

1267
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 2: it was good, that it was okay yea. And so

1268
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 2: it was great though, because you couldn't go back and

1269
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 2: do stuff, and normally the decision you made on the

1270
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 2: spot was always the best decision. It wasn't about going

1271
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 2: back and tweaking it and oh we should have done it.

1272
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: You know it has a song bit you in the

1273
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 1: ass during the mix down like a damn like h.

1274
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 2: No, actually not really. We had we had an engineer

1275
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 2: back in the day. We had an engine named Tavy

1276
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 2: Motet back when we were doing a song called Heartbreaker

1277
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 2: with Climax, which I'm not even sure of that song actually, yeah,

1278
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 2: I did come out. I think it did, but it

1279
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 2: was on one of those twenty four hour sessions. And

1280
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 2: he decided that he could spot RaSE something on the

1281
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 2: on the tape, on the master tape of a vocal thing,

1282
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 2: and we were like, no, it's okay, Tovy, we can

1283
01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 2: just mute it on the board. No, no, I can

1284
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 2: do it. I can do it. And so normally on

1285
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 2: tape what you do is you put the tape into

1286
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 2: the position and then you'd hit record, but you wouldn't

1287
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 2: go play the tape. You just hit record and just

1288
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 2: get rid of that one little spot. He said, no,

1289
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 2: I can do it on the fly. So it's like okay,

1290
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 2: And the word was the word was fresh.

1291
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: Let me get this ready.

1292
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 2: So the lyric was a heartbreaker, so fresh right, and

1293
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 2: then there was like a fresh click, so he said,

1294
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 2: I get rid of it. So he goes, we do

1295
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 2: it a heartbreaker, so fresh clicks. I missed it. It's okay, man,

1296
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 2: we can just mute it. No, no, I got it

1297
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 2: a heartbreaker, so fresh click. Oh man, I missed it again.

1298
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 2: Now it's okay, Tobby, really now I got it this

1299
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 2: time a heartbreaker. So I think I got it, and

1300
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 2: we're like, yeah, you got.

1301
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: It half of down.

1302
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 2: And it made us change the song so that instead

1303
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 2: of instead of it's saying that, it would say it

1304
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 2: every other time. Well, so we would just go U,

1305
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 2: I'm so good, I'm such a mess, and then we'd

1306
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 2: leave it blank. So I mean so no, but but

1307
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 2: you know that was a crazy mistake and that never

1308
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 2: happened again, and we never worked with Tabby again.

1309
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, wait, you just said something though, So

1310
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: if you really didn't believe in Sempty and weren't lining

1311
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 1: up stuff, then how did those cool summer mixes turn

1312
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: out so perfect?

1313
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 2: Because we would wild sync.

1314
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 4: I'm a DJ. I could hate you right now, man.

1315
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 4: So so it was Clive.

1316
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 2: The Cool Summer mix Yeah, the Cool Summer Mixes were fun.

1317
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: So hell yeah, they were fun.

1318
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we would so we would just take I

1319
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 2: usually would take like the eight oh eight or something

1320
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,439
Speaker 2: and I would just sink it. Like so, I would

1321
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 2: just have the eight o eight on a track or

1322
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 2: two tracks or whatever. I'd play the original tape right

1323
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,800
Speaker 2: and then I'd uh, and then I turned the drum

1324
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 2: machine on at the same time, I'd kind of adjust

1325
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 2: the speed. When it locked up, I'd hit record. When

1326
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 2: it drilled, i'd stop, and then we'd started up again,

1327
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 2: and when it hit and then I'd go in. So

1328
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 2: it just it just was a process. We had it.

1329
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 2: We had it down a DJ. Yeah, I was I

1330
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 2: can't do any of that stuff anymore, but but no,

1331
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 2: I can match.

1332
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 1: I can match.

1333
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 2: I can match that kind of stuff. And then we

1334
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 2: go back and then and then you know, just re

1335
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 2: record the keyboards and stuff on that. I'll tell you

1336
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 2: an interesting uh, I'm sorry, every story veers off. The

1337
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 2: Cool Summer Mixes is the reason we ended up working

1338
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 2: with George Michael. So when we did Monkey Monkey, if

1339
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,800
Speaker 2: you remember, he had Monkey on the album record right right,

1340
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,880
Speaker 2: and he called us, and he said, hey, I want

1341
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 2: you guys to do a remix a monkey and we

1342
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 2: said okay, cool, and we said, well what do you want?

1343
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 2: What are you looking for exactly? He said? He said, Okay,

1344
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 2: you know those cool summer mixes you do, He says,

1345
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 2: you know how you put chords on it, but it

1346
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 2: still stays funky. He said, that's what I was trying

1347
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 2: to do on that record, and every time I tried

1348
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 2: to put chords on it, it wouldn't be funky. And

1349
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 2: we were like, okay, yeah, cool summer xs. Okay, yeah, yeah,

1350
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 2: we got it. We can do that, right. So then

1351
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,640
Speaker 2: when he heard what we were doing, he said, oh no,

1352
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 2: I got to re sing it now. And so that's

1353
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 2: how it turned from a remix to a production, and

1354
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 2: that's how it ended up going. If you have the

1355
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 2: version of the album that was made after I don't

1356
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 2: know a million copies or however, they yeah, it had

1357
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 2: our version on it, because that was what he always

1358
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 2: envisioned the song as being.

1359
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:49,640
Speaker 1: And have you heard the Nasty Cool Summer mix they

1360
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 1: released it on the on the talking about the Herbal remix,

1361
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:03,799
Speaker 1: and I was talking about the diamond diamonds. Yeah, the twelve. Okay,

1362
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:08,679
Speaker 1: I'll totally like, yeah, yeah, anyway, yeah, damn this cool

1363
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: summer mix. Are there mixes that didn't see.

1364
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 2: The light of day that you guys did, No, I don't.

1365
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 2: I don't think so, so I think I mean we

1366
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 2: pretty much did them. We always do. I mean, I

1367
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 2: love doing it. It was always a lot of fun,

1368
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 2: and I always liked the idea of it was really

1369
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 2: two chains of thought, because sometimes remixes back in the day,

1370
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 2: your remix was just you know, the drums would be

1371
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 2: fatter or would it would literally be a remix where

1372
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 2: you wouldn't really be changing a lot, but just more

1373
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 2: the sounds echo here you do that.

1374
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: But I felt that was the best lesson you guys

1375
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:47,719
Speaker 1: learned from Prince, because the first time I heard someone

1376
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 1: totally like that little Corvette remix that totally, I was like, Oh,

1377
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: you put something in the relative minor and make it

1378
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 1: a whole new song, and that's sort of thing. And

1379
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 1: that's what you guys were doing to like those songs,

1380
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: like totally making them new again, right, which I thought, Okay, now,

1381
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: maybe she'll do this in concert that way and that

1382
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:09,639
Speaker 1: sort of thing.

1383
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 2: Sometimes she did, Actually sometimes she did, which was kind

1384
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 2: of cool, but no, I I enjoyed doing that. It

1385
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 2: was just a cool creative way of doing it. I

1386
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 2: remember we did, like one of my favorite ones was

1387
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 2: Crucial Edition.

1388
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, Yes remix, Yes, EDI re released, they just

1389
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 4: put out yep.

1390
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1391
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:34,679
Speaker 2: See, I like that kind of stuff. Was always really cool.

1392
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: That one where Ll wrote Mike Bivens rhyme and he

1393
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 1: gave him a shout out for the Okay, I have.

1394
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 3: Two things we need to talk about really quick. One, uh,

1395
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 3: my favorite remix you guys ever did was twelve inches

1396
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 3: Schrelle's Fragile Handle with Care with the extended percussion out,

1397
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 3: which is a gift from God, Thank you very much.

1398
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:55,679
Speaker 2: Second New Edition Heartbreak album.

1399
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 3: The interlude, what is what is Ralph saying your jam

1400
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 3: hit the button?

1401
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: Now?

1402
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 2: Okay, So what.

1403
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:08,440
Speaker 1: He's saying is.

1404
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:14,640
Speaker 2: He's saying the ALPS button, the Alps button, right, But

1405
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 2: what it actually is is the OX But that because

1406
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,800
Speaker 2: they never called it the OX button. They just knew

1407
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 2: in the APPS button, so they knew in the middle

1408
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 2: of the board there was the button that you pressed

1409
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,839
Speaker 2: when you wanted to hear it loud over the speakers

1410
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 2: whatever we were mixing, and there was this button and

1411
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 2: it said OX on it, and that was what it was.

1412
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:44,759
Speaker 2: You pressed that button and then everything came back loud

1413
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 2: and on the big speakers. So that was the whole thing.

1414
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,639
Speaker 2: So every record when we got done, they would say

1415
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 2: and it just turned into this kind of running thing.

1416
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 2: And we just said, oh, let's put that on on

1417
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 2: that on the record because it's just kind of funny.

1418
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 1: But you tops, but wait now, okay, okay, okay, I

1419
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: see now, I gotta hear.

1420
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 6: Jill Mike, don't even sweat it. Jim hit the button,

1421
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 6: No hit the album.

1422
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 2: So that's funny. But no, we we we love doing

1423
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 2: once again. That was an album. The great thing about

1424
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 2: that album we talked about Hearsaying. We didn't talk about it,

1425
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:29,560
Speaker 2: but we talked about it offline. Those records. We controlled

1426
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:34,679
Speaker 2: those records, the sequencing of the records, all of the songs,

1427
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 2: even if we didn't do them. We were like the

1428
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 2: executive producers. And so the ability to put to humanize

1429
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 2: those records by putting little things like that into it,

1430
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,799
Speaker 2: or the interludes on Hearsay where they're at a party,

1431
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:51,639
Speaker 2: and the whole thing. You know what I hate, Yes,

1432
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 2: I hate to be the bear bad news exactly. So

1433
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 2: I mean that to me was why those albums they

1434
01:13:57,240 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 2: were actual albums to me, and that I was always

1435
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 2: like a running concept exactly, and that was that was

1436
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 2: always the goal, and the sequencing was always really really important.

1437
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:10,799
Speaker 2: And at a certain point when everything became very piecemeal

1438
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 2: and you did your one song and you really had

1439
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 2: no say so. I I never liked the idea of that,

1440
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 2: but I mean it is what it is. You just

1441
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 2: do what you're You're asked to do two songs, so

1442
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 2: you do your two songs.

1443
01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 1: But I like the idea of I always wanted to

1444
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:27,360
Speaker 1: know why with the Human Leagues record, was it that

1445
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 1: concept not allowed to fly? Like? Was that more of

1446
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 1: a tug of war situation or just.

1447
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 2: Human League was interesting because there was a lot of uh,

1448
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:40,600
Speaker 2: well okay, So first of all, Human League was aw,

1449
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 2: you guys get the swing. They were they were up

1450
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 2: for anything. I mean that that. They were very cool,

1451
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 2: I must say, uh and phil Oki, particularly the lead singer,

1452
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 2: was amazing. Dude, amazing dude. You guys were there to

1453
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 2: do it or no, they flew to us. So it

1454
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 2: was weird. So you got these guys coming from England,

1455
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 2: not even London, England, but Sheffield, England, which is you know,

1456
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 2: small town coming to Minneapolis and the dead of Winner

1457
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,839
Speaker 2: to work with you know, two blokes, two black blokes,

1458
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:16,640
Speaker 2: I guess.

1459
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 1: You know.

1460
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 2: It was a bit of a culture shock, I guess,

1461
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:26,519
Speaker 2: I would say. And the underlying kind of elephant in

1462
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 2: the room that whole record was that Phil, the lead singer,

1463
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 2: was going out with one of the girls in the

1464
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 2: group and so I think it was Joe Anne, I

1465
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 2: think the darkhaired girl. Okay, So it set up this

1466
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 2: interesting thing because they had already written a bunch of

1467
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 2: the songs themselves and they just wanted us to produce

1468
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:50,599
Speaker 2: them and that was great, but then they wanted us

1469
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 2: to add our own songs to them, so it was like, okay, cool.

1470
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 2: And that was the first album that Steve Hodge actually

1471
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 2: engineered for us, because we engineered the Control album basically ourselves,

1472
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 2: and Steve kind of fixed it because we recorded it

1473
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 2: totally wrong when we did it, but he fixed it.

1474
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:10,920
Speaker 2: But he said, I'm gonna come up and show you

1475
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 2: guys how to record. So that Human League is actually

1476
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 2: sonically is probably one of our best stubs because it's

1477
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:19,919
Speaker 2: really done well. But the idea of creating was interesting

1478
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 2: because you know, we had the songs. They were down

1479
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:26,640
Speaker 2: with the songs, but in particular Human. Terry did the

1480
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 2: vocal on that song, produced a vocal on it, and

1481
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 2: it was like a week at least a week of

1482
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 2: every day because think about you almost have to unteach

1483
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 2: Phil how to sing, because Phil was always very robotic

1484
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:39,160
Speaker 2: and always very stiff.

1485
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:44,720
Speaker 1: And I'm saying you made them sound human, yeah, human.

1486
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 2: But that took It took a lot of so Terry,

1487
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 2: that was a Terry Lewis masterpiece to me. And I

1488
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 2: remember hearing the finished vocal and just going, man, that's amazing.

1489
01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 2: And I remember watching his face as he listened to

1490
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 2: because after he did vocal, than Terry comped the vocal

1491
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 2: and everything, and I remember watching his face and he

1492
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:08,720
Speaker 2: just was like amazed how we sounded right. And so

1493
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 2: we went and and when we did the backgrounds, actually

1494
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 2: the backgrounds on the song is Lisa Keith and Terry.

1495
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:18,680
Speaker 2: They're the ones that are doing the ooh human. It's

1496
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 2: a combination of those guys. Because Terry used to also

1497
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:22,719
Speaker 2: be mister background. We used to call him mister background.

1498
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 2: So anyway, I remember we played it and film was like, Wow,

1499
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 2: that's really good. We were all like, wow, that's great.

1500
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,439
Speaker 2: That sounds great. And I remember the girls being like,

1501
01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 2: who's that other girl singing on the track and we said, oh,

1502
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 2: it's h Yeah. We said, oh that's Lisa Keith.

1503
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:43,599
Speaker 1: Hmm.

1504
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:44,760
Speaker 2: Not sure. We like that.

1505
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 1: Not sure, we.

1506
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 2: Fancy that such and such and such and such what

1507
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 2: you know, we we didn't get a chance to sing,

1508
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:54,679
Speaker 2: and you know, whatever whatever whatever, and we were like, okay, well,

1509
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,240
Speaker 2: you know, we'll figure it out tomorrow or whatever whatever whatever.

1510
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 2: So they left and Terry was like, they can't sing

1511
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 2: this so and we're like, yeah, we know. I mean

1512
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 2: it's not that they couldn't sing, but for this particular

1513
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 2: song that texting them we're trying to do, it didn't fit.

1514
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 2: So that's when Terry came up with the idea, is

1515
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to give him a spoken part. That was

1516
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 2: the Olive Branch. So we're gonna do this. We're gonna

1517
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 2: do the spoken part. But before the Olive branch happened, Oh,

1518
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:30,000
Speaker 2: the next day, Phil. The next day, Phil came back

1519
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 2: to the studio and everybody was with him, but only

1520
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 2: he came in the room and he kind of walks

1521
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 2: in the room and he has this look on his

1522
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:42,599
Speaker 2: face and we said, what's up, Phil, how's it going.

1523
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 2: He says good, good, and uh, we said what's going on?

1524
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 2: And he goes, I just have to say that we're

1525
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:58,679
Speaker 2: against the other girl being on the track. And Terry

1526
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:02,080
Speaker 2: and I said huh, and he says, I just have

1527
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 2: to say we're against that other girl being on the track.

1528
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 2: So me and Terry look at each other and he

1529
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:24,840
Speaker 2: says it again. And then we said, oh, oh, okay,

1530
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:31,639
Speaker 2: you just have to say you're against the girl being

1531
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 2: on the track. And he says, yes, I have to say.

1532
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 2: I mean, we said we got you, we got you.

1533
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 2: Don't worry about it. We got it because we know

1534
01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 2: what went home. He went home with the girl, you know,

1535
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:45,320
Speaker 2: to the hotel and she was in his year all

1536
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:46,680
Speaker 2: night or whatever the heck it was.

1537
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:49,880
Speaker 1: They didn't get they didn't get smoking mirrors. Back then

1538
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 1: I would have known. I would have not known any

1539
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 1: different than you know.

1540
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,120
Speaker 2: So it was. It was very funny. So he did

1541
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:00,360
Speaker 2: his thing. It's like, okay, fill your off the hook.

1542
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 2: You told us what you needed to tell us, what

1543
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 2: she said, you tell that's great. We came in, Uh

1544
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:08,640
Speaker 2: we did you know, Terry showed the girl joeanned I

1545
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 2: think did the part, and she said, here you go,

1546
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 2: this is the part you're doing right, We're done with

1547
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 2: the song. Song's totally done. I don't know at that

1548
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,599
Speaker 2: point whether they beefed to the record company or whoever

1549
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 2: it was, and we just said okay, and we've I

1550
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:26,719
Speaker 2: don't think to this. I don't remember us ever ever

1551
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 2: doing this on any other project, certainly not to that point.

1552
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:34,160
Speaker 2: But we just said, here's our thing. The songs that

1553
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:38,160
Speaker 2: they brought that they did, they can mix them however

1554
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 2: the heck they want to do it. They got it.

1555
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:43,479
Speaker 2: The songs that we did were mixing exactly the way

1556
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:46,599
Speaker 2: we want them. And as far as human goes, if

1557
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 2: we don't get to do it the way we want

1558
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 2: to do it, we're just taking it off the record.

1559
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 2: And they were like, no, no, no, no, no, no,

1560
01:20:53,240 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 2: you really did hit the But but that might have

1561
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,880
Speaker 2: been the only time that that happened. And it was

1562
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 2: interesting because I've read some articles where Phil has talked

1563
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 2: about making the record now and he says we were

1564
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:11,760
Speaker 2: puppets and whatever. He has a whole different kind of

1565
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:15,000
Speaker 2: recollection of it than we do. And you know, Hey,

1566
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 2: that's the way, you know. But it's like you hired

1567
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:21,960
Speaker 2: us to make your record. You had made your record

1568
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:25,360
Speaker 2: basically as demos, and you wanted us to do it

1569
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 2: our way. So basically it was like taking what they

1570
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 2: did and then I would play the parts or I

1571
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:32,720
Speaker 2: would have them play the parts or whatever it was.

1572
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 2: But it was just you hired us. We did what

1573
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 2: you hired us to do. There was no puppet anything

1574
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:40,520
Speaker 2: to me, and that was the only.

1575
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:43,160
Speaker 1: So I can assume that they didn't write I Need

1576
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:45,599
Speaker 1: You Love It? Oh no, no, no, But did they

1577
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:47,799
Speaker 1: write the last song, the song that closes the record

1578
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:49,520
Speaker 1: nothing else even matters.

1579
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:53,679
Speaker 2: Or loves all the matter? Yea, we wrote did okay? Yeah?

1580
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 1: So yeah. But I was going to say, like, if

1581
01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:59,160
Speaker 1: you're given the Human League and you know their history,

1582
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,640
Speaker 1: it's it's very telling that you really brought them to

1583
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 1: your side of the fence, brought them down to our world,

1584
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:11,479
Speaker 1: as opposed to because I would have figured that you

1585
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:15,040
Speaker 1: guys would have been like all right, announced, all right.

1586
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:17,960
Speaker 1: So Prince's concept with the family was you wanna get

1587
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: some of that durand de Ram money, right, You didn't

1588
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:23,960
Speaker 1: think at one point like yo, now's really time for

1589
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:27,640
Speaker 1: us to show cash all the all the all the

1590
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:31,040
Speaker 1: Middle America, like all the Middle America AM radio shit

1591
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:34,479
Speaker 1: that we've learned, we can now use them as the

1592
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 1: calling card.

1593
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:39,720
Speaker 2: But no, because we didn't feel that they that was

1594
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 2: what they necessarily were. I mean, they had obviously big records,

1595
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:44,640
Speaker 2: but there was a reason that they had come to

1596
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:47,479
Speaker 2: us anyway. To me, even with the big records that

1597
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 2: they had, because I remember Fascination was one of my

1598
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:51,759
Speaker 2: I mean, Don't You Want Me was great, but Fascination

1599
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 2: was my record.

1600
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 1: I love that.

1601
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to me, the fact that they were coming

1602
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 2: to us was You're coming to us for a reason,

1603
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:00,760
Speaker 2: and it's not to make a pop radio it's to

1604
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:01,759
Speaker 2: make I'm.

1605
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:04,719
Speaker 1: Just saying, like a song like I Need You Loving.

1606
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1607
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:08,479
Speaker 1: You don't think Alex would have tore the ship out

1608
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:08,600
Speaker 1: of it?

1609
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 2: Of course he would have. Yeah, okay, yeah, I agree,

1610
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:15,080
Speaker 2: I agree with that. But it was fun. They listen,

1611
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:17,679
Speaker 2: they we played them stuff, and they picked the stuff

1612
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 2: they liked. They liked that song, they loved they loved

1613
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:21,960
Speaker 2: that record, and we like the idea of doing a

1614
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:24,000
Speaker 2: record like that on them because it's not the kind

1615
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 2: of record you would expect you know, to hear from them.

1616
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:29,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did not expect that.

1617
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:31,080
Speaker 1: Totally did not expect that.

1618
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 4: Me and Zoe we covered humans some years back on

1619
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:36,400
Speaker 4: the on our eighties record because.

1620
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:55,280
Speaker 1: That's right so with It's it's weird though, because it's

1621
01:23:55,320 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 1: like I felt like Control was your most important record,

1622
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:06,680
Speaker 1: but I actually feel like Heartbreak was your make or

1623
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:12,120
Speaker 1: break record, because what that allowed you to do was

1624
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:18,320
Speaker 1: really crossed the bridge into what young people you know

1625
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: are into, which you know, not even I don't even

1626
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 1: consider it as like, oh can jamn't lowis handle new

1627
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: jack swing, but more or less like the standard of it,

1628
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:34,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like it, I felt like

1629
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 1: that was a real make or break record for you

1630
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:43,879
Speaker 1: that allowed you to then grab folks that are even younger,

1631
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 1: Like did you see that did you even see that

1632
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:48,800
Speaker 1: as a challenge or was it just like, Okay, well

1633
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:50,400
Speaker 1: we're just getting new addition, And.

1634
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we just thought we'd just were just

1635
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:55,920
Speaker 2: do a new addition. Like it's like in the moment,

1636
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 2: I don't think it's easy to look back historically and

1637
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:02,600
Speaker 2: go and you know that that was some sort of

1638
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:04,559
Speaker 2: turning point. I mean, it was the first time that

1639
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 2: we really it was probably the first time we really

1640
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 2: adopted a lot of hip hop into what we were doing,

1641
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 2: or at least a lot of that kind of sound

1642
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:16,680
Speaker 2: and a lot of you know.

1643
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 1: Was it a discussion between you two, like, Okay, now

1644
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:23,680
Speaker 1: our straight up funk might be dated by eighty eight,

1645
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 1: eighty nine. We gotta figure out what's going on in

1646
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:30,000
Speaker 1: you Jack swing and that sort of thing, Like what

1647
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:31,840
Speaker 1: was your impression like when you first heard the Guy

1648
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 1: record and the Key Sweat record and love at.

1649
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:39,920
Speaker 2: First to listen, absolute love. Matter of fact, I remember

1650
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 2: having a conversation when the Key Sweat record came out.

1651
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:48,680
Speaker 2: I remember having a conversation with Babyface about that. We

1652
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 2: were at a club somewhere, and I remember we were

1653
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 2: talking about I said, man, you heard this dude, Key

1654
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 2: Sweat Man, and he was like, oh yeah, yeah, I

1655
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 2: love that record.

1656
01:25:57,640 --> 01:25:58,280
Speaker 1: I love that record.

1657
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 2: That record sounds like y'all's record because it's because it

1658
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 2: was if you if you think about it. To me,

1659
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 2: the New Jack Swing record, now, I don't know the

1660
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 2: first New Jack Swing record, but the first for me,

1661
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:09,759
Speaker 2: one of the first New Jack Swing records was actually

1662
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:17,960
Speaker 2: nasty and the kind of fluty string sound on that

1663
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,680
Speaker 2: to me, is what I won her was but they

1664
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:25,960
Speaker 2: were using Teddy was using more kids. Yeah, but that

1665
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 2: was that same thing. And I remember we were talking

1666
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 2: about that and and I remember Facer might have been

1667
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:35,280
Speaker 2: La said, well, you know, Keith's cool, but you know

1668
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:37,920
Speaker 2: who the real dude on that record is. This is

1669
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 2: this kid, Teddy Riley. He's like the dude. And we're like, oh, really,

1670
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:44,559
Speaker 2: who's it? He produced the record and we were like,

1671
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 2: oh shit, okay, So we went then out of Teddy

1672
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:51,600
Speaker 2: Riley quest at that point and trying to find you know,

1673
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:53,639
Speaker 2: other you know, more records that he had done because

1674
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 2: it was just still brand new. But that wasn't That

1675
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 2: was an amazing record, an amazing album two. I mean

1676
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 2: so yeah, No, we love that. We've always embraced pretty

1677
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:09,680
Speaker 2: much what's out there. We've never really had the attitude

1678
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 2: of I mean, we certainly have things we personally like

1679
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:14,679
Speaker 2: and don't like, but we've never had the attitude of.

1680
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:18,280
Speaker 1: You didn't scoff at some of the patches, like some

1681
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:23,960
Speaker 1: of those like Stanley Brown cheesy saxophone, like I think

1682
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:26,920
Speaker 1: of the saxophone like the greatest love of all. Yeah,

1683
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:31,240
Speaker 1: like like you weren't scoffing at some of the patches,

1684
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:34,720
Speaker 1: like all right, it was a little amateurish, you know.

1685
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:37,160
Speaker 2: No, well I don't think so.

1686
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:40,200
Speaker 1: I think patches were always classy.

1687
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:43,599
Speaker 2: Like you guys always use just presets though, right, Like, yeah,

1688
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:45,800
Speaker 2: I was. I was a big preset guy. I said

1689
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 2: in an article a long time ago and Keyboard magazine

1690
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 2: that somebody would give me a keyboard because because companies

1691
01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 2: would start was at that point where people would just

1692
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:57,840
Speaker 2: give us keyboards, right, and they go, man, this one's

1693
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 2: this one's great, man. And the great thing about it, this, man,

1694
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 2: you can really tweak the sounds. And I said, I

1695
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:06,559
Speaker 2: don't want to tweak sounds. Somebody's getting paid a bunch

1696
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:08,800
Speaker 2: of money to put really great sounds in this. I

1697
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:11,360
Speaker 2: shouldn't have to tweak it. I should go through the presets.

1698
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 2: And when I go through the presets and I don't

1699
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:17,599
Speaker 2: come up with a song idea, that keyboard is going back.

1700
01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:20,200
Speaker 2: You know, so if I get so, if I get

1701
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:25,040
Speaker 2: a keyboard, like so, we're you know. Uh. Probably one

1702
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:28,920
Speaker 2: of my favorite all time was in Sonic. And you know,

1703
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:32,639
Speaker 2: in Sonic's funny because in Sonic got no respect as

1704
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:38,840
Speaker 2: a keyboard company. Anne, but control the horn hits the

1705
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 2: horn hits Son. When I think of you, mirage the

1706
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 2: sound on Nasty, the goong goom going all that, mirage

1707
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 2: the little flutie sound on Nasty, mirage the Janet Jackson's signature.

1708
01:28:54,240 --> 01:28:56,080
Speaker 1: Really because I was really.

1709
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:01,680
Speaker 2: So, I said in an article I just mentioned, I said, oh, yeah,

1710
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 2: that's a mirage, like.

1711
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 1: I could have those noses.

1712
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're actually floppy. This because they're samples. They're floppy.

1713
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:10,639
Speaker 1: D'Angel probably got this.

1714
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:13,479
Speaker 2: Just wait for that.

1715
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 1: They're not bag yeah, can't right.

1716
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:17,759
Speaker 2: So I mean that was the thing. So that keyboard

1717
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:22,679
Speaker 2: inspired there would be wouldn't be nasty without that sound. Okay,

1718
01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 2: so these the keyboard inspired that sound. So I was

1719
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:28,720
Speaker 2: a sonic keyboard fan just from that. I remember they

1720
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:30,720
Speaker 2: sent us a whole bunch of other keyboards, but the

1721
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:32,760
Speaker 2: one they sent us was this keyboard called it I

1722
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 2: think it was called a MR seventy six And not

1723
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:41,720
Speaker 2: to skip around, but velvet rope. Ninety percent of that

1724
01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 2: is MR seventy six keyboard. The drum loops, all the

1725
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:50,639
Speaker 2: road sounds, all the the use, all the stock stuff.

1726
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 2: I use all the stock stuff, yes, because to me crazy, yeah,

1727
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 2: but the thing is to me is obviously and did

1728
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:01,360
Speaker 2: not and I can't diminished it. I mean I can't

1729
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:05,320
Speaker 2: not diminish it. I can't put enough importance on Steve

1730
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 2: Hodge mixed it. So Steve Hodge made it sound the

1731
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:11,439
Speaker 2: best that could sound. But a lot of stuff we

1732
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 2: talked about, Uh, let's see body that loves You we

1733
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,799
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier. I'm trying to think of another song anytime,

1734
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 2: any place. For instance. Part of it is the way

1735
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:26,679
Speaker 2: that you play the patches. You know, a sax patch

1736
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:31,040
Speaker 2: can sound totally cheesy if somebody plays it, if they

1737
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:33,080
Speaker 2: don't play it like a sax player, like I'll tell

1738
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:36,080
Speaker 2: you that one. I'll give you one. That's the way

1739
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 2: love goes. So the the guitar part that goes bank

1740
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:43,760
Speaker 2: bank bink right, No, it's a S three.

1741
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:49,280
Speaker 1: I don't even have a noise for that.

1742
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:50,759
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

1743
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:51,799
Speaker 1: This is all I got.

1744
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 2: My really Yeah. So, but but the way you play it,

1745
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 2: if you played like it, yeah, but if you play

1746
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,080
Speaker 2: it like a if you played like that's a keyboard,

1747
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:07,960
Speaker 2: yeah yeah. And so if you somebody, if you play

1748
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:10,880
Speaker 2: it like a guitar player would play it. And see

1749
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 2: that's where Terry would come in because Terry, if I

1750
01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 2: did something like that, He'd say, guitar wouldn't play it

1751
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:19,320
Speaker 2: like that, or bass player wouldn't play it like that.

1752
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 2: And so he always kept me so whenever I played

1753
01:31:22,200 --> 01:31:25,120
Speaker 2: him a track and I did like guitar, my little

1754
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:28,639
Speaker 2: fake guitar stuff on it, if he said, oh man,

1755
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,519
Speaker 2: who did you get to play guitar? I knew I

1756
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:34,840
Speaker 2: had something. So anytime any places one where there's kind

1757
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:37,960
Speaker 2: of sounds like a jazz guitar, this goes bl it

1758
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:45,519
Speaker 2: sounds like a like a.

1759
01:31:39,640 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 1: H I was thinking of Ronnie he just passed away. Yeah,

1760
01:31:49,080 --> 01:32:03,800
Speaker 1: oh no, no, not even Ronnie Foster from London told

1761
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 1: me from Damn you got us.

1762
01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:12,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ronnie Jordan's.

1763
01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 1: I don't know Ronnie Jordan's keep saying he passed away. Yeah.

1764
01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:28,439
Speaker 1: I thought, like, you guys have Ronnie Jordan or somebody that.

1765
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:32,600
Speaker 2: Know every like on that particular song. If I'm not mistaken,

1766
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:35,200
Speaker 2: I think every instrument on that song is from the

1767
01:32:35,200 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 2: same keyboard and it's all it's all uh, it's all

1768
01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:42,519
Speaker 2: stock sounds. I'll give you one more like that.

1769
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:51,439
Speaker 4: If no guitars on it, Wow, just think of the opening.

1770
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 1: The guitar. Okay, I can put the whaling guitar guitar. Okay,

1771
01:32:57,160 --> 01:33:00,439
Speaker 1: so you kind of you you mentioned something which tells

1772
01:33:00,479 --> 01:33:03,040
Speaker 1: me that there's still a level of respect between you two.

1773
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:09,680
Speaker 1: But what song have you two done and which it

1774
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:15,799
Speaker 1: could have gone to humanly confrontational levels? Have you two ever.

1775
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:18,479
Speaker 2: Argued Terry and I? Yes, No?

1776
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:19,200
Speaker 6: What?

1777
01:33:19,800 --> 01:33:21,400
Speaker 1: No? Have you ever ever this fought?

1778
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:26,719
Speaker 2: No, not even close. We haven't even raised We've never

1779
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:29,520
Speaker 2: we've never even raised our voices at anything.

1780
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:33,679
Speaker 1: At least passive aggressive, like we're passive aggressive, like POKEM

1781
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:34,719
Speaker 1: in the eye or anything.

1782
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:43,840
Speaker 2: No, we never have. It's you know, it's a it's

1783
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:48,360
Speaker 2: a unique relationship because it's over the years it's just

1784
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:52,680
Speaker 2: kind of evolved into. First of all, there's we're not

1785
01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:54,800
Speaker 2: joined at the hip. There's a thought that we're joined

1786
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:57,320
Speaker 2: at the hip and we do everything together. And I

1787
01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:00,680
Speaker 2: think if we did, there would probably be more of

1788
01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:02,720
Speaker 2: a you know, a friction or something that could just

1789
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 2: happen just because of being in proximity to somebody so much.

1790
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:12,200
Speaker 2: But we live different lives. We have you know for instance,

1791
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 2: uh I you know, well, here's a good example. I

1792
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:19,120
Speaker 2: do an interview, although Terry's actually under under the weather today,

1793
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:24,040
Speaker 2: but I like talking music in that and Terry does too,

1794
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 2: but not to the degree I do, you know, but

1795
01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:29,080
Speaker 2: it's what makes.

1796
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:30,920
Speaker 1: Me be out after an hour have this.

1797
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, he would have been. He would have

1798
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:36,160
Speaker 2: been long on long. He would have actually, he would

1799
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:43,160
Speaker 2: he would probably enjoy. Well, no, he wouldn't, but he

1800
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:47,479
Speaker 2: wouldn't no, no, but he he, he would enjoy. He

1801
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:49,400
Speaker 2: would enjoy talking to you, Like if we were at

1802
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:51,040
Speaker 2: dinner and we were just hanging out and having dinner

1803
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:53,720
Speaker 2: and talking, you guys, you guys would have a great

1804
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:57,840
Speaker 2: conversation with him. He because he's he's such an amazing mind,

1805
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 2: and also talking about his lyrics. See, the thing it's

1806
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:03,680
Speaker 2: great about lyrics with him is that part of the

1807
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:06,479
Speaker 2: beauty of a great lyricist is you can say what

1808
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 2: you need to say in a few words. And I'm

1809
01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:13,760
Speaker 2: very long winded. And so that's the reason I think

1810
01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:15,800
Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily that good at lyrics. I can say

1811
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:17,120
Speaker 2: what I want to say, but it just takes me

1812
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:21,559
Speaker 2: too many words to say it, Okay. And perfect example

1813
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:24,360
Speaker 2: is the Janet record of Living in the World they

1814
01:35:24,360 --> 01:35:28,680
Speaker 2: didn't make and we had been watching it looks like

1815
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:32,200
Speaker 2: the way CNN looks now pretty much honestly, but just

1816
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:35,519
Speaker 2: all kinds of just craziness in the world and school

1817
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:38,760
Speaker 2: shootings and just all kinds of stuff, and we just

1818
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:41,000
Speaker 2: felt like we got to do a song that addresses

1819
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 2: that that it's not the kid's fault. It's the world

1820
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:48,920
Speaker 2: that we've built as adults for the kids. Right, what

1821
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:53,040
Speaker 2: does that song need to be? So we're like, we

1822
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:54,840
Speaker 2: need Terry right is because it was just me and

1823
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:57,640
Speaker 2: Janet talking about it, and Terry was actually at the

1824
01:35:57,720 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 2: time at our then our new studio, putting you know,

1825
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 2: we were building it at the time. So Terry walks

1826
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:06,680
Speaker 2: in the door of our old play we're still at

1827
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:08,360
Speaker 2: our old place. He walks in the door with like

1828
01:36:08,439 --> 01:36:11,240
Speaker 2: carpet samples and all kinds of stuff. We're like, jam,

1829
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:12,880
Speaker 2: what do you think about the carpet sample and then

1830
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:15,280
Speaker 2: whatever whatever? No, no, Terry, we need lyrics, man, we

1831
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:18,400
Speaker 2: need lyrics. He said, okay, what's the concept? And I said, okay,

1832
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:22,080
Speaker 2: because man, these kids, man, parents are making the bad

1833
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:24,680
Speaker 2: decisions and the adults are making the bad decisions, and

1834
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 2: the kids pay for the mistakes that we make and

1835
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:29,200
Speaker 2: such and such, and I go into this big long

1836
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:31,679
Speaker 2: thing and Terry at the end of it, just goes

1837
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 2: living in the world they didn't make, walks into the

1838
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:37,680
Speaker 2: room ten minutes later, hands Jenet the lyrics and goes

1839
01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:42,880
Speaker 2: here you go wow, so damn yeah, so that's and

1840
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:50,519
Speaker 2: then he goes, no, which carpet stamps? And Terry's a

1841
01:36:50,560 --> 01:36:53,400
Speaker 2: really good multitasker too, so he could he could do that.

1842
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:55,760
Speaker 2: His brain could work like that. But that was the thing.

1843
01:36:56,280 --> 01:36:59,160
Speaker 2: But because we're not joined at the hip, and we

1844
01:36:59,240 --> 01:37:02,080
Speaker 2: each have things that we do really well. Even in

1845
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:07,280
Speaker 2: picking projects very much like picking uh, you know, what

1846
01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:10,439
Speaker 2: radio show to do for instance, or podcast or whatever,

1847
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:15,960
Speaker 2: whatever the decision is, sometimes we if we neither of

1848
01:37:16,040 --> 01:37:17,280
Speaker 2: us feel it, then it's just the no.

1849
01:37:17,880 --> 01:37:18,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1850
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:22,519
Speaker 2: If one of us feels it, then it's like, you know,

1851
01:37:22,600 --> 01:37:25,439
Speaker 2: we'll explain to the other why we feel good about it,

1852
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:30,200
Speaker 2: and we just kind of know now, you know. I

1853
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:34,120
Speaker 2: remember I mentioned your show to Terry, you know, three

1854
01:37:34,240 --> 01:37:36,679
Speaker 2: four or five months ago and stuff, and I said,

1855
01:37:36,680 --> 01:37:39,800
Speaker 2: you know, we should do quest Love show, you know whatever, whatever, whatever,

1856
01:37:40,360 --> 01:37:42,000
Speaker 2: what's the show about us? So it's just like it's

1857
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:44,200
Speaker 2: really good, it's really in depth, and you know, it's

1858
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:46,479
Speaker 2: kind of cool. He said, oh yeah, okay, yeah, it

1859
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:50,120
Speaker 2: sounds okay, it's interesting. You know, it's like here he goes,

1860
01:37:50,200 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 2: but I love I love quest Love. Yeah, okay, but

1861
01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:56,360
Speaker 2: not I love. I'll do it. I just I love

1862
01:37:56,479 --> 01:38:00,240
Speaker 2: quest Love. Okay. So cool, Okay, So I know that

1863
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:02,840
Speaker 2: going into it, it's like, okay, So then I'm like, okay,

1864
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:04,760
Speaker 2: is that something? But no, I I really want to

1865
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:06,479
Speaker 2: do it and and and I think it would be

1866
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:08,800
Speaker 2: interesting to do, would be a great conversation whatever. Okay,

1867
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:11,280
Speaker 2: So that's why. But we do projects the same way.

1868
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:15,760
Speaker 2: And I swear to God, there's there's there's people that

1869
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:19,800
Speaker 2: will swear to God that Terry does all the work

1870
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:23,800
Speaker 2: and I don't do a thing. And there's and there's

1871
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:27,080
Speaker 2: people that will swear that Terry doesn't do a thing.

1872
01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:35,040
Speaker 1: I feel like your pen and he's Teller, Like no, no, no,

1873
01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:38,080
Speaker 1: I think he doesn't work. But because we don't have

1874
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:42,600
Speaker 1: a gauge for his personality that I'm just trying to

1875
01:38:42,640 --> 01:38:45,280
Speaker 1: figure out. Okay, Pennah, Teller is an interesting and now

1876
01:38:45,400 --> 01:38:48,120
Speaker 1: I thought you were the lyrics guy because you talk

1877
01:38:48,200 --> 01:38:49,160
Speaker 1: the most of the two.

1878
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:54,680
Speaker 2: No, I'm not. I remember one of the songs I

1879
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:56,400
Speaker 2: actually did a lot of the lyrics song was just

1880
01:38:56,479 --> 01:38:59,200
Speaker 2: be good to me. And I remember thinking the whole

1881
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:01,559
Speaker 2: time I was writing it, this is way too long.

1882
01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:04,080
Speaker 1: And six minutes.

1883
01:39:04,160 --> 01:39:08,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that. I remember that, and and I remember.

1884
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:12,120
Speaker 2: It's funny because I also remember like Saturday Love, like

1885
01:39:12,240 --> 01:39:17,519
Speaker 2: I came up with the hook on that, and I

1886
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:20,719
Speaker 2: was like so embarrassed, like when I was at my house.

1887
01:39:21,200 --> 01:39:23,000
Speaker 2: And matter of fact, that the piano I wrote it

1888
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 2: on is the piano that's downstairs, which is also the

1889
01:39:25,520 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 2: Tenderlove piano, by the way, but I had it in

1890
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:31,559
Speaker 2: my little apartment. You know, I had my first little

1891
01:39:31,560 --> 01:39:33,280
Speaker 2: apartment stuff, so I had the piano in there, right.

1892
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:36,040
Speaker 2: So anyway, I write Saturday Love where I have the

1893
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:39,240
Speaker 2: chords and stuff, and I got the Sunday, Monday, Tuesday,

1894
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 2: and I'm jamming. I don't think, oh man, this is cool.

1895
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:44,280
Speaker 2: So I get to the studio and I'm like, Terry,

1896
01:39:44,320 --> 01:39:46,640
Speaker 2: I got the song man. He said, yeah, yeah, what

1897
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:50,120
Speaker 2: is it? And I said, it's like it's like the

1898
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:55,559
Speaker 2: days of the week. It's already sounded stupid now coming.

1899
01:39:55,400 --> 01:39:59,200
Speaker 8: Out of my mouth, well singing man, And I said, okay,

1900
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:05,840
Speaker 8: well it's like Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and he starts laughing.

1901
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,360
Speaker 2: He says, oh, that's funny. It's it's like Sesame Street.

1902
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:09,160
Speaker 2: I said yeah.

1903
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:10,840
Speaker 1: I said yeah, I.

1904
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:15,080
Speaker 2: Said, forget it, forget it, forget it anyway. He said, no, no, no,

1905
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:16,880
Speaker 2: it's cool. It's cool. I get it. I get it,

1906
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:19,080
Speaker 2: I get it. So anyway, we do the song. Here's

1907
01:40:19,160 --> 01:40:22,880
Speaker 2: what we how much we really didn't think a lot

1908
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:26,880
Speaker 2: of the song. The first and second lyrics.

1909
01:40:26,560 --> 01:40:30,560
Speaker 4: Exact same, exactly second verse, save the first.

1910
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:33,679
Speaker 1: Second verse, save the first damn.

1911
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:41,559
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, why did you freaking say.

1912
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:48,880
Speaker 1: It's the same it's lazy afternoon. Yeah, Well, we just didn't.

1913
01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:53,479
Speaker 1: We don't know how to write books. It's like, we

1914
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:56,960
Speaker 1: gotta turn this record in tomorrow, just repeat it over again.

1915
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:00,720
Speaker 2: So yeah, so that that was the thing. So that

1916
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:02,519
Speaker 2: was what we thought of it. And even when we

1917
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:05,280
Speaker 2: put it on the album, we were kind of like,

1918
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:08,479
Speaker 2: and we remember we released I Think You Look Good

1919
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:10,880
Speaker 2: to Me. It's the first single, and you Look Good

1920
01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:14,639
Speaker 2: to Me was doing well and it's moving up the charts,

1921
01:41:14,680 --> 01:41:17,200
Speaker 2: and it was everything was doing well. And I remember

1922
01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:19,519
Speaker 2: it got to about I don't know thirty or whatever,

1923
01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:23,200
Speaker 2: and it just kind of started slowing down and we

1924
01:41:23,320 --> 01:41:25,680
Speaker 2: were like going, what the hell is going on, and

1925
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:27,360
Speaker 2: so we called the record company. We said, well, what

1926
01:41:27,400 --> 01:41:29,599
Speaker 2: are we what's going on with the record And they said, hey, man,

1927
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:31,200
Speaker 2: everybody's jumping to this Saturday Love.

1928
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:35,320
Speaker 6: And I'm told you because I remember too. The challenge

1929
01:41:35,479 --> 01:41:37,400
Speaker 6: was if you could really get it in the right cadence,

1930
01:41:37,479 --> 01:41:39,519
Speaker 6: like you felt good about yourself. I remember the time

1931
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:42,560
Speaker 6: when I finally got I was like, yes, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.

1932
01:41:42,200 --> 01:41:46,080
Speaker 1: Wednesdayday, weren't you three? When that came didn't matter.

1933
01:41:46,360 --> 01:41:47,200
Speaker 6: I remember singing it up.

1934
01:41:47,560 --> 01:41:55,920
Speaker 2: It was accomplishment, which I've seen Cherrelle open up for

1935
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:56,760
Speaker 2: new addition once.

1936
01:41:57,160 --> 01:42:01,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Rick, Ran and Dan were like dog they were

1937
01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:06,680
Speaker 1: so freaking charismatic and their own Yes, how come Rick

1938
01:42:06,800 --> 01:42:09,000
Speaker 1: Rand and Dan were not their own group?

1939
01:42:09,240 --> 01:42:13,800
Speaker 2: They were who is? Rick Randon was like like you remember.

1940
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:17,200
Speaker 1: When Prince had his Jerome and the two bodyguards, like

1941
01:42:17,320 --> 01:42:21,800
Speaker 1: as his pips. She had her own pips and they

1942
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:24,880
Speaker 1: was like funky. They were like straight up like I

1943
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:26,040
Speaker 1: wanted them to be a group.

1944
01:42:26,240 --> 01:42:30,559
Speaker 2: They were a group. Wait, Rick Rannon, Dan, they were

1945
01:42:30,760 --> 01:42:34,280
Speaker 2: a group. They were a group. Recorded them? Uh, well,

1946
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 2: we started recording them. You produce the song for yes,

1947
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:44,719
Speaker 2: But tragically Ran Randy uh, died in a motorcycle accident.

1948
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:48,519
Speaker 2: He was Chelle's husband's I don't think they were married,

1949
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:49,960
Speaker 2: but certainly her boyfriend.

1950
01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:54,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Randy ran Oh, Randy who wrote That's Been to

1951
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:54,719
Speaker 1: Night for Jhanna.

1952
01:42:55,040 --> 01:42:58,360
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so he was so how do you know that?

1953
01:42:58,880 --> 01:43:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of my favorite album.

1954
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:06,200
Speaker 2: That's my job. I'm supposed to know. That's why I

1955
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:12,400
Speaker 2: got the redhead phones. But Randy, Randy was amazing. And

1956
01:43:12,479 --> 01:43:14,719
Speaker 2: I remember Charille introduced us.

1957
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 9: To him and uh, she said, yeah, I want you

1958
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:23,400
Speaker 9: to meet my boyfriend. Uh, this is Randy and he's

1959
01:43:23,400 --> 01:43:25,360
Speaker 9: got this group Rick Randon, Dan and whatever.

1960
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:25,719
Speaker 1: Whatever.

1961
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:27,519
Speaker 2: We said, Okay, cool, well we'll check him out. We'll

1962
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:29,720
Speaker 2: check him out. And then so when we did You

1963
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:31,320
Speaker 2: Look Good to Me, we put him in the video.

1964
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 2: We put Rick Randon on the video of You Look

1965
01:43:34,280 --> 01:43:37,320
Speaker 2: Good to Me. And the plan was that, yeah, we

1966
01:43:37,400 --> 01:43:38,800
Speaker 2: were going to make a record with him like that

1967
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:40,840
Speaker 2: was the next thing we were going to do.

1968
01:43:41,760 --> 01:43:43,679
Speaker 1: They were the first cats I ever seen do the snake.

1969
01:43:44,400 --> 01:43:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right.

1970
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:49,160
Speaker 1: The first time I seen that. Semo and Soul training

1971
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:50,479
Speaker 1: we all started doing that ship.

1972
01:43:51,080 --> 01:43:54,560
Speaker 2: No, they were they were crazy talented. Uh, as a

1973
01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:58,919
Speaker 2: group and uh, but but Randy as a writer and producer,

1974
01:43:59,320 --> 01:44:00,360
Speaker 2: he did a lot of songs.

1975
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:01,040
Speaker 1: He did h.

1976
01:44:03,200 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think I'm totally blanking, but he produced

1977
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:10,280
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of songs for us back

1978
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:14,120
Speaker 2: in the days. Very very talented, super nice dude. But

1979
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:16,840
Speaker 2: he got a motorcycle man. He just was, you know,

1980
01:44:17,040 --> 01:44:18,360
Speaker 2: and just a motorcycle accident.

1981
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:22,479
Speaker 4: I want to ask you about Perspective Records and like,

1982
01:44:22,840 --> 01:44:26,000
Speaker 4: how did when you guys first started, was Sounds of Blackness?

1983
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:27,800
Speaker 1: Y'all very first as.

1984
01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:30,280
Speaker 2: Yes, that was the very first, very first act, and

1985
01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:32,360
Speaker 2: it Sounds of Blackness was the story with them?

1986
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:44,679
Speaker 1: Was all forty of them signed that contract no a week? Yeah, yeah,

1987
01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:45,040
Speaker 1: that's right.

1988
01:44:49,560 --> 01:44:53,160
Speaker 2: You know. The ironic thing about that about that statement though,

1989
01:44:53,280 --> 01:44:55,839
Speaker 2: which is very true, and it's one of the reasons

1990
01:44:55,920 --> 01:45:03,160
Speaker 2: that we never criticized Prince's decision because you know, it's

1991
01:45:03,240 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 2: kind of like it's tough to criticize the boss if

1992
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:10,679
Speaker 2: you've never been a boss. And so we didn't agree

1993
01:45:10,720 --> 01:45:13,720
Speaker 2: with a lot of things that Prince did, but we

1994
01:45:13,880 --> 01:45:16,160
Speaker 2: were in the position we were in because of the

1995
01:45:16,240 --> 01:45:18,439
Speaker 2: things he did do or you know or whatever. Those

1996
01:45:18,479 --> 01:45:21,160
Speaker 2: decisions were we looked at where we were at and

1997
01:45:21,280 --> 01:45:25,040
Speaker 2: realized we wouldn't have been there without those decisions, even

1998
01:45:25,080 --> 01:45:28,600
Speaker 2: the decision to kick us out the group, which was

1999
01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:31,400
Speaker 2: the best decision. Yeah, he could have made for us,

2000
01:45:31,560 --> 01:45:33,400
Speaker 2: because we wouldn't have left the group on our own.

2001
01:45:33,479 --> 01:45:35,240
Speaker 2: It's like, no, we love being with the group, so

2002
01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:38,640
Speaker 2: you never knows, but yeah, you're absolutely right. That was that,

2003
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:41,800
Speaker 2: you know, sounds of Blackness, Like, that's an expensive group

2004
01:45:42,240 --> 01:45:44,639
Speaker 2: to get around, and we and we and we dug

2005
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:46,880
Speaker 2: in our pocket to do it because we believed in

2006
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:51,920
Speaker 2: what it was. Janet was. Actually, we took Janet to

2007
01:45:51,960 --> 01:45:55,600
Speaker 2: a show when we were working on Rhythm Nation, and

2008
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:58,000
Speaker 2: we took her to a show, and the whole show

2009
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:01,800
Speaker 2: she was nudging me because the whole thing about souns

2010
01:46:01,800 --> 01:46:04,240
Speaker 2: of Blackness, it was all celebrated all the different kinds

2011
01:46:04,280 --> 01:46:06,320
Speaker 2: of black music. It wasn't just it was gospel, but

2012
01:46:06,360 --> 01:46:08,920
Speaker 2: it was jazz, it was blues, it was everything. And

2013
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:11,920
Speaker 2: every time they'd launch into a different thing, she nudged

2014
01:46:11,960 --> 01:46:13,920
Speaker 2: me and go, oh, they're doing a jazz song. Oh

2015
01:46:13,960 --> 01:46:15,880
Speaker 2: they're doing a gospel song. Oh they're you know, And

2016
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:18,360
Speaker 2: it was like, yeah, Janet, that's what they do like

2017
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:20,880
Speaker 2: we knew them because we would play like on the

2018
01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:24,280
Speaker 2: same gigs as them, as flight Time, we would play

2019
01:46:24,400 --> 01:46:26,240
Speaker 2: like they were around that long. Yeah oh they yeah,

2020
01:46:26,280 --> 01:46:30,960
Speaker 2: they were around their Yeah that's right. Yeah, same members,

2021
01:46:31,080 --> 01:46:35,519
Speaker 2: same members, same same director and Nesby and as Gary Hines.

2022
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:39,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, the nice fro Yep, they were like, guys, it's

2023
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:42,240
Speaker 4: kind of like Ladiesmith Flack Mombazzo like they were.

2024
01:46:42,560 --> 01:46:45,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So so they they were around forever. So

2025
01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:48,240
Speaker 2: when we started the label and and so Janet said,

2026
01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:52,599
Speaker 2: she said, wow, you should sign them, and we thought, yeah,

2027
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:54,519
Speaker 2: we should. That's a good idea, we should sign it.

2028
01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:58,240
Speaker 2: And so I remember we talked to Gary after that

2029
01:46:58,320 --> 01:46:59,640
Speaker 2: show and we said, you know, we want to make

2030
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:02,400
Speaker 2: a record. You guys were starting a label. And our

2031
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:06,880
Speaker 2: theory was real simple to me, which was we wanted

2032
01:47:06,920 --> 01:47:10,680
Speaker 2: to build a big tall building. But in order to

2033
01:47:10,760 --> 01:47:13,000
Speaker 2: build a big tall building, you got to dig a foundation.

2034
01:47:13,680 --> 01:47:16,760
Speaker 2: And Sounds of Blackness was our foundation. And Terry would

2035
01:47:16,760 --> 01:47:19,920
Speaker 2: always say, you know, sometimes you got to give people

2036
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:23,160
Speaker 2: not what they want, but what they need, and they

2037
01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:25,920
Speaker 2: don't know they need it until they hear it, and

2038
01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:29,040
Speaker 2: then they go, oh man, I needed this, Yes, and

2039
01:47:29,120 --> 01:47:30,320
Speaker 2: that's what Sounds of Blackness was.

2040
01:47:30,400 --> 01:47:30,519
Speaker 1: Now.

2041
01:47:31,040 --> 01:47:33,200
Speaker 2: It was funny because there were you know, the business

2042
01:47:33,240 --> 01:47:35,840
Speaker 2: always comes into it. So we were at A and

2043
01:47:35,960 --> 01:47:42,400
Speaker 2: M Records, and I remember A and M was still

2044
01:47:42,479 --> 01:47:45,040
Speaker 2: her Alpert and Jerry Moss the original to A and

2045
01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:48,519
Speaker 2: M guys, right, And I remember doing the record, and

2046
01:47:48,640 --> 01:47:52,320
Speaker 2: I remember the A and M, the guys that were

2047
01:47:52,400 --> 01:47:55,640
Speaker 2: kind of running it at the time. They said we

2048
01:47:55,760 --> 01:47:57,519
Speaker 2: had them. I just think Sounds of Blackness was in

2049
01:47:57,600 --> 01:47:59,760
Speaker 2: I want to say Philadelphia. I want to say for

2050
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:06,000
Speaker 2: like like a conference or something. Maybe I am or something. Oh, yeah,

2051
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:08,759
Speaker 2: I am, okay. So we had them there for the conference.

2052
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:10,920
Speaker 2: So we said, and it wasn't the whole group. We

2053
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:13,360
Speaker 2: had a touring group. Okay, we had a touring group

2054
01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:17,080
Speaker 2: of twenty of twenty. So we said, let's we want

2055
01:48:17,120 --> 01:48:19,439
Speaker 2: to take them to New York and uh, you know,

2056
01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:21,759
Speaker 2: take them to some radio and do some stuff. Optimistic

2057
01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:24,400
Speaker 2: had just come out as a single and they were like, oh,

2058
01:48:24,400 --> 01:48:25,880
Speaker 2: you don't have a budget for it. There's no budget

2059
01:48:25,960 --> 01:48:27,920
Speaker 2: for that. And we're like, well, we're already in Philadelphia.

2060
01:48:28,040 --> 01:48:29,560
Speaker 2: It's like, let's just go up to New York. No,

2061
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:31,880
Speaker 2: it's no budget for it. So we're like okay. So

2062
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:33,920
Speaker 2: we just went in our pockets and just said, here,

2063
01:48:34,040 --> 01:48:35,880
Speaker 2: here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go to New York.

2064
01:48:36,520 --> 01:48:39,519
Speaker 2: And at the time, I can't remember. I think Frankie

2065
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:41,760
Speaker 2: might have still been to beat BLS at the time,

2066
01:48:42,120 --> 01:48:46,479
Speaker 2: I can't remember, right, And we just called the radio stations.

2067
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:48,320
Speaker 2: It's like, hey, it's Jam and Lewis. Can we bring

2068
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:50,640
Speaker 2: them group by? And everybody was like, yeah, yeah, bring them,

2069
01:48:50,760 --> 01:48:53,719
Speaker 2: bring them by. And we'd bring them to the station

2070
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:57,240
Speaker 2: and they'd sing and blow everybody away, and then we'd

2071
01:48:57,280 --> 01:48:59,080
Speaker 2: be like we think we'd be there for fifteen minutes,

2072
01:48:59,080 --> 01:49:01,880
Speaker 2: we'd be on there for two. Right, So we leave

2073
01:49:01,920 --> 01:49:03,840
Speaker 2: the station, the phones would all be lighting up and stuff,

2074
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:06,599
Speaker 2: and then we go to like what Sylvia's I think

2075
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 2: was the place back then, right, So we'd go to

2076
01:49:09,560 --> 01:49:13,320
Speaker 2: Sylvia's and we'd eat, you know, we'd feed everybody, but

2077
01:49:13,400 --> 01:49:16,840
Speaker 2: then they treat everybody to a show the chefs. We'd

2078
01:49:16,880 --> 01:49:20,080
Speaker 2: have the chefs and everybody come out and stuff. And right,

2079
01:49:21,080 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 2: So when we left New York and went back to

2080
01:49:23,840 --> 01:49:26,360
Speaker 2: well to Minneapolis, actually not to LA. When we back

2081
01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:31,800
Speaker 2: to Minneapolis the next week, the record got to like

2082
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:34,599
Speaker 2: I didn't know on both whatever the two outlets were

2083
01:49:34,600 --> 01:49:37,040
Speaker 2: at the time, We're both like sixty seventy spins a week,

2084
01:49:37,240 --> 01:49:42,320
Speaker 2: like huge, and they're all going, you know, all the

2085
01:49:42,400 --> 01:49:44,679
Speaker 2: marketing and all the people that they're going, what happened

2086
01:49:44,720 --> 01:49:46,720
Speaker 2: with this, what's going on with the Sounds of Blackness record?

2087
01:49:46,720 --> 01:49:48,000
Speaker 2: And I said, well, we took them to New York,

2088
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:52,519
Speaker 2: like we said, and you know they had that kind

2089
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:54,600
Speaker 2: of impact. We just need to get them out. So

2090
01:49:55,200 --> 01:50:03,840
Speaker 2: I remember Herb called me and he said, he said, hey, Jam,

2091
01:50:03,960 --> 01:50:08,439
Speaker 2: it's Herb. And I said, oh, Herb, I said, great news, man.

2092
01:50:08,840 --> 01:50:11,479
Speaker 2: I said, we're number one most added this Sounds a

2093
01:50:11,520 --> 01:50:14,479
Speaker 2: Blackness record and for this and that you know, we

2094
01:50:14,640 --> 01:50:16,920
Speaker 2: got this many spins and we got whatever whatever. And

2095
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:20,960
Speaker 2: Herb says, I didn't call it here, that bullshit. He said,

2096
01:50:21,040 --> 01:50:25,240
Speaker 2: I called to tell you that I am so proud

2097
01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:29,320
Speaker 2: to be associated with this record and you guys that

2098
01:50:29,479 --> 01:50:32,839
Speaker 2: you brought this gift to us at A and M Records.

2099
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:37,240
Speaker 2: And I was like wow, I said, okay, thanks man.

2100
01:50:37,479 --> 01:50:42,439
Speaker 2: He said that's it. So I called So. I called So.

2101
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:45,880
Speaker 2: I called his girl, his assistant, who is still his

2102
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:49,560
Speaker 2: assistant to this day, and I said, yeah, I just

2103
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:52,080
Speaker 2: got a call from herb about the record. I said,

2104
01:50:52,160 --> 01:50:54,000
Speaker 2: is he is he there? I just forgot I was

2105
01:50:54,040 --> 01:50:56,200
Speaker 2: going to say something to him, and she said, well,

2106
01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:58,160
Speaker 2: you know, it's the funny, funniest thing. You know. He

2107
01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:02,479
Speaker 2: drove into work, and I kept thinking, why isn't he

2108
01:51:02,560 --> 01:51:04,920
Speaker 2: coming in, Like he's just sitting in his car and

2109
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:08,040
Speaker 2: he was just listening to it. And then she said,

2110
01:51:08,160 --> 01:51:09,760
Speaker 2: and then when he came in, I could tell he

2111
01:51:09,800 --> 01:51:15,639
Speaker 2: had been crying, WHOA right? And I was like wow,

2112
01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:18,360
Speaker 2: I said, okay, I said, okay, well thanks, don't bother him,

2113
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:20,760
Speaker 2: you know, I said, it's all good. We spoke already whatever.

2114
01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:23,840
Speaker 2: She said, okay. But the fact that that record had

2115
01:51:23,960 --> 01:51:31,280
Speaker 2: that impact on him, it said so much about to

2116
01:51:31,400 --> 01:51:33,400
Speaker 2: me that we were doing the right thing, but also

2117
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:36,640
Speaker 2: that we were with the right partners who understood what

2118
01:51:36,760 --> 01:51:38,759
Speaker 2: it was we were trying to do in our vision

2119
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:40,400
Speaker 2: of what we wanted to do and what we wanted

2120
01:51:40,439 --> 01:51:45,320
Speaker 2: the record company to be. Unfortunately, PolyGram came in and

2121
01:51:45,360 --> 01:51:47,479
Speaker 2: bought him out, cashed him out for I don't know,

2122
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:50,080
Speaker 2: three hundred million or whatever the heck it was, and

2123
01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:53,040
Speaker 2: what I call the new A and M, which was

2124
01:51:53,320 --> 01:51:59,880
Speaker 2: Al Kafaro and Milt Olen came in, and honestly, Milt

2125
01:52:00,280 --> 01:52:04,639
Speaker 2: was just a numbers guy, business affairs guy, and everything

2126
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:09,679
Speaker 2: was about how much something costs whatever. And al bless

2127
01:52:09,760 --> 01:52:14,720
Speaker 2: his heart, was just a he inherited us, and he

2128
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:16,880
Speaker 2: looked at our deal and saw that our deal was

2129
01:52:16,920 --> 01:52:19,000
Speaker 2: against his bottom line because our deal was it was

2130
01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:21,439
Speaker 2: a huge deal because Herb and Jerry were like we

2131
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:23,599
Speaker 2: At first they say, we can't afford you. But then

2132
01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:26,000
Speaker 2: when they knew the PolyGram money was coming, they called

2133
01:52:26,040 --> 01:52:29,080
Speaker 2: and said we can afford you now, right. So it

2134
01:52:29,200 --> 01:52:33,599
Speaker 2: was cool, and but it never was the same, right

2135
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:36,479
Speaker 2: down to the Grammys. I remember that year at the Grammys,

2136
01:52:36,520 --> 01:52:39,080
Speaker 2: A and m Had they were in New York that year,

2137
01:52:39,120 --> 01:52:41,040
Speaker 2: and I remember A and m Had, I think the

2138
01:52:41,120 --> 01:52:44,120
Speaker 2: police are staying or whatever, and show Crow and they

2139
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:46,880
Speaker 2: had all these records that were up for awards. The

2140
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:48,960
Speaker 2: only one that won a Grammy that night was Sounds

2141
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:51,920
Speaker 2: of Blackness. And I remember running into Milt Olin on

2142
01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:55,439
Speaker 2: the in the elevator, you know, coming down the stairs somewhere,

2143
01:52:56,280 --> 01:52:59,599
Speaker 2: and and I said, hey, Milt. I said great night,

2144
01:52:59,720 --> 01:53:02,639
Speaker 2: huh And he said yeah, yeah, great for you guys.

2145
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:06,639
Speaker 2: And I said, what mean great for you. He said,

2146
01:53:06,640 --> 01:53:08,640
Speaker 2: oh great, it's great for you. Yeah you guys won,

2147
01:53:09,880 --> 01:53:12,519
Speaker 2: I said, well we want I thought we're partners. Oh yeah, yeah,

2148
01:53:12,560 --> 01:53:16,040
Speaker 2: yeah that's true. Yeah yeah, you're right. And I thought, man,

2149
01:53:16,120 --> 01:53:18,320
Speaker 2: I thought, okay, so here's where we're at now. We're

2150
01:53:18,360 --> 01:53:23,120
Speaker 2: from her calling me crying to this and it was doomed.

2151
01:53:23,640 --> 01:53:26,200
Speaker 2: It was doomed mid conditions. I mean, the records that

2152
01:53:26,240 --> 01:53:29,880
Speaker 2: were successful were successful despite you know, the folks that

2153
01:53:29,960 --> 01:53:30,439
Speaker 2: were there.

2154
01:53:30,760 --> 01:53:33,639
Speaker 6: As a Christmas record, this Sounds a Blackness?

2155
01:53:34,360 --> 01:53:36,280
Speaker 2: Did this? Yeah, sol Holiday? I mean, but once again,

2156
01:53:36,360 --> 01:53:38,080
Speaker 2: it's I mean, it was like all the things that

2157
01:53:38,160 --> 01:53:40,560
Speaker 2: we wanted to do, we just did them, but we

2158
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:48,680
Speaker 2: just reached who j no, because this was after that.

2159
01:53:49,040 --> 01:53:51,800
Speaker 2: This was this was see we're talking Janet went di

2160
01:53:51,920 --> 01:53:57,439
Speaker 2: virgin in ninety three Sounds of Blackness. We're ninety one.

2161
01:53:58,320 --> 01:54:01,240
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah. So but but that was part of

2162
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:06,760
Speaker 2: the problem is because we got asked why when we

2163
01:54:06,880 --> 01:54:11,360
Speaker 2: brought Sounds of Blackness. The question we were asked not

2164
01:54:11,439 --> 01:54:14,840
Speaker 2: by Herb and Jerry, who Herb obviously loved what we brought, right,

2165
01:54:16,120 --> 01:54:22,599
Speaker 2: but the al Cafaro milk Own regime ask we gave

2166
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:24,599
Speaker 2: you all this money, why didn't you bring us another

2167
01:54:24,680 --> 01:54:29,240
Speaker 2: Janet Jackson record, or bring us an act like Janet Jackson.

2168
01:54:29,320 --> 01:54:32,680
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, because we have a plan of

2169
01:54:32,880 --> 01:54:35,960
Speaker 2: what we're gonna do, We're gonna build that. I mean,

2170
01:54:36,040 --> 01:54:38,040
Speaker 2: just watch what we do. Just let us do our thing.

2171
01:54:38,120 --> 01:54:39,800
Speaker 2: We know what we're doing, at least we think we do.

2172
01:54:40,400 --> 01:54:42,440
Speaker 2: But we're gonna create some great records for you. And

2173
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:45,240
Speaker 2: so we did the we did the Sounds of Blackness record.

2174
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:47,720
Speaker 2: We follow that up with the Men Condition record, the

2175
01:54:47,880 --> 01:54:50,640
Speaker 2: very first one, the very first one. Yeah, meant to

2176
01:54:50,680 --> 01:54:55,680
Speaker 2: be meant so all listen to that record, said there's

2177
01:54:55,720 --> 01:55:00,040
Speaker 2: no hits on this record. We said, wow, okay, So

2178
01:55:00,120 --> 01:55:03,880
Speaker 2: we said okay, So Sheila Eldridge, who you guys probably know,

2179
01:55:04,840 --> 01:55:06,640
Speaker 2: So Sheila. We went to Sheila and we said, Sheila,

2180
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:08,520
Speaker 2: what can we do to drum up some support for

2181
01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:11,280
Speaker 2: we got this single coming out pretty Brown Eyes whatever,

2182
01:55:11,360 --> 01:55:13,920
Speaker 2: we're breaking my heart? And she said, oh, let's do

2183
01:55:14,040 --> 01:55:16,520
Speaker 2: a uh, let's go to the colleges in the DC

2184
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:19,520
Speaker 2: area and stuff and we'll do like a video contest

2185
01:55:19,560 --> 01:55:22,160
Speaker 2: and whoever comes up with the best video remember that.

2186
01:55:22,280 --> 01:55:24,320
Speaker 6: Yes, And it was a Howard Girl, the Howard Girl

2187
01:55:24,360 --> 01:55:26,560
Speaker 6: one yes, but not for the second single.

2188
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:31,560
Speaker 2: So that was the concept. So Terry went out with

2189
01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:34,120
Speaker 2: him in like a win of Bago, like he was

2190
01:55:34,160 --> 01:55:36,720
Speaker 2: staying at like hotels and didn't fax machines did didn't

2191
01:55:36,720 --> 01:55:38,840
Speaker 2: even have fax machines at the hotel. I'm like, hey, man,

2192
01:55:38,880 --> 01:55:40,760
Speaker 2: can I send the facts to you? Terry Man, I

2193
01:55:40,760 --> 01:55:43,360
Speaker 2: ain't no facts of this roach.

2194
01:55:43,280 --> 01:55:45,600
Speaker 1: Motel had the company, yeah, you know.

2195
01:55:46,120 --> 01:55:47,680
Speaker 2: So it was like one of those kinds of things.

2196
01:55:47,920 --> 01:55:49,560
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, I remember we're sitting in

2197
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:54,160
Speaker 2: a marketing meeting and uh, you know, everybody sitting around

2198
01:55:54,200 --> 01:55:58,560
Speaker 2: the table and everybody's talking about uh, you know, you

2199
01:55:58,760 --> 01:56:03,800
Speaker 2: name whatever Indie White act. You could sold one hundred

2200
01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:06,720
Speaker 2: copies somewhere. Oh we sold one hundred copies in Des Moines.

2201
01:56:07,240 --> 01:56:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah that's awesome. Yeah. And then we got sticks and

2202
01:56:10,920 --> 01:56:14,920
Speaker 2: Stones over here and they sold fifty copies in in

2203
01:56:15,200 --> 01:56:19,600
Speaker 2: uh you know, min not North Dakota. Oh that's awesome. Yeah,

2204
01:56:19,760 --> 01:56:23,480
Speaker 2: that's great. What do you guys got? End of the meeting,

2205
01:56:23,520 --> 01:56:26,560
Speaker 2: What do you guys got? And we said, okay, well

2206
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:32,240
Speaker 2: we have and the guy goes, oh my god, you

2207
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:35,600
Speaker 2: guys got seventy five spins at the pop station in DC.

2208
01:56:36,360 --> 01:56:38,000
Speaker 1: What is this song? Who is this grel?

2209
01:56:40,160 --> 01:56:43,200
Speaker 2: We're like, oh yeah, men, condition oh my god, this

2210
01:56:43,360 --> 01:56:46,600
Speaker 2: record is How did that happen? And I said, well,

2211
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:49,440
Speaker 2: Terry got in a Winnebago and we did a video

2212
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:52,960
Speaker 2: contest and they were like, oh my god. And the

2213
01:56:53,040 --> 01:56:54,720
Speaker 2: next thing you know, we had a top five pop

2214
01:56:54,840 --> 01:56:59,600
Speaker 2: record on the album with no hits. Literally we had

2215
01:56:59,680 --> 01:57:03,000
Speaker 2: to prove ourselves over and over and open. No matter

2216
01:57:03,040 --> 01:57:05,520
Speaker 2: what we did, we came up with a low key

2217
01:57:05,600 --> 01:57:08,120
Speaker 2: record next straight to number one on the R and

2218
01:57:08,200 --> 01:57:08,720
Speaker 2: B charts.

2219
01:57:09,800 --> 01:57:10,960
Speaker 1: That's that I got a thing for you.

2220
01:57:11,080 --> 01:57:11,880
Speaker 2: I got a thing for you.

2221
01:57:11,880 --> 01:57:15,400
Speaker 1: You know something now that you mention it the first

2222
01:57:15,440 --> 01:57:16,800
Speaker 1: do you remember the first time we met?

2223
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:18,000
Speaker 3: No?

2224
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:21,800
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, at college at that college out door.

2225
01:57:22,800 --> 01:57:26,200
Speaker 1: Hey, I forgot yes, yes, yes, what was the name

2226
01:57:26,280 --> 01:57:29,320
Speaker 1: India a little red boot? Yes?

2227
01:57:29,560 --> 01:57:34,640
Speaker 2: Uh Angel Angel, that's right, Yeah, I forgot that, you guys.

2228
01:57:34,720 --> 01:57:39,360
Speaker 1: And that's a thing when someone when the college promoters said, hey, Jimmy,

2229
01:57:39,400 --> 01:57:41,040
Speaker 1: Jamme and Terry Lewis out there, they want to know

2230
01:57:41,080 --> 01:57:42,920
Speaker 1: if they can open for you guys real quick, and

2231
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:48,440
Speaker 1: we like almost lost it life. Who that's like Jimmy,

2232
01:57:48,480 --> 01:57:51,200
Speaker 1: Jaime and Terry Lewis want to open for us, Like

2233
01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:53,960
Speaker 1: we totally didn't get the context that it was then,

2234
01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:57,880
Speaker 1: and I was just mind blowing that you guys were

2235
01:57:58,240 --> 01:58:04,880
Speaker 1: that accessible. You were like our idols, freaking promoting with

2236
01:58:05,040 --> 01:58:07,480
Speaker 1: your artists, Like I've never seen such a thing where

2237
01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:07,920
Speaker 1: it's like.

2238
01:58:08,880 --> 01:58:11,560
Speaker 2: You know, we were always big believers in that though,

2239
01:58:11,600 --> 01:58:14,320
Speaker 2: because even when we knew the perspective, we knew we

2240
01:58:14,440 --> 01:58:16,520
Speaker 2: were done in perspective, our deal was almost up.

2241
01:58:18,040 --> 01:58:19,920
Speaker 1: How was the deal? Was it like for a number

2242
01:58:20,080 --> 01:58:21,920
Speaker 1: of albums that tried to play with out.

2243
01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:23,960
Speaker 2: No, it was just it was just a number of years,

2244
01:58:23,960 --> 01:58:25,800
Speaker 2: and it kind of changed as it happened because when

2245
01:58:25,800 --> 01:58:27,640
Speaker 2: we first started, we went in just it was a

2246
01:58:27,720 --> 01:58:30,320
Speaker 2: joint venture and we went in and we basically were

2247
01:58:30,360 --> 01:58:32,880
Speaker 2: going to just release, you know, three records a year

2248
01:58:32,960 --> 01:58:35,720
Speaker 2: or whatever. That then turned in they were shutting the

2249
01:58:35,800 --> 01:58:38,040
Speaker 2: whole black music department down of A and M, there

2250
01:58:38,120 --> 01:58:40,000
Speaker 2: was a there was a whole thing where a lot

2251
01:58:40,040 --> 01:58:42,400
Speaker 2: of the companies started just losing the black music department.

2252
01:58:43,160 --> 01:58:44,760
Speaker 2: So what they said to us is, why don't you

2253
01:58:44,880 --> 01:58:47,320
Speaker 2: guys just take over the black music department, Which was

2254
01:58:47,360 --> 01:58:50,160
Speaker 2: great because we inherited the Berry White record, which nobody

2255
01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:54,040
Speaker 2: thought was a hit and yeah with a practice what

2256
01:58:54,080 --> 01:58:56,240
Speaker 2: you mention all that stuff right, And they said, oh,

2257
01:58:56,320 --> 01:58:58,120
Speaker 2: that's not a hit, and we like took it over.

2258
01:58:58,200 --> 01:58:59,960
Speaker 2: And the funny thing was we took the record over,

2259
01:59:00,200 --> 01:59:02,920
Speaker 2: but then when it record went number one, yeah it

2260
01:59:03,000 --> 01:59:04,800
Speaker 2: was a and m oh a and m yeah we

2261
01:59:04,920 --> 01:59:10,040
Speaker 2: did it and were going, okay, well we actually Champion

2262
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:13,440
Speaker 2: didn't work that song, but okay. Anyway, So as we

2263
01:59:13,560 --> 01:59:15,080
Speaker 2: got toward the end of the deal, we had this

2264
01:59:15,160 --> 01:59:19,160
Speaker 2: group called Solo. I discovered discovered them on the street

2265
01:59:19,160 --> 01:59:22,520
Speaker 2: corner of New York, actually fell in love with him,

2266
01:59:23,240 --> 01:59:26,720
Speaker 2: made the record, and that was the only record probably

2267
01:59:26,840 --> 01:59:29,600
Speaker 2: I would say on an m that they really I

2268
01:59:29,600 --> 01:59:34,160
Speaker 2: remember Al Kafaro coming to town and saying, we want

2269
01:59:34,240 --> 01:59:37,840
Speaker 2: you guys to stay, and we're going to show you

2270
01:59:38,040 --> 01:59:41,160
Speaker 2: what we can do with this solo record. And I

2271
01:59:41,200 --> 01:59:43,480
Speaker 2: think we ended up doing like eight hundred thousand units

2272
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:45,520
Speaker 2: on that record, so it was a very successful record.

2273
01:59:46,000 --> 01:59:48,560
Speaker 2: They actually got us our only time ever working with

2274
01:59:48,960 --> 01:59:52,960
Speaker 2: Hype Williams. We actually got a real video budget and

2275
01:59:53,160 --> 01:59:55,560
Speaker 2: you know all of those things. But what we knew

2276
01:59:55,600 --> 01:59:57,600
Speaker 2: we were leaving. So our whole thing was we had

2277
01:59:57,600 --> 02:00:00,480
Speaker 2: an an Nesby record, and we had had the Mint

2278
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:04,520
Speaker 2: record with UH, what kind of man would I?

2279
02:00:04,560 --> 02:00:06,720
Speaker 1: Definition? Definition?

2280
02:00:07,240 --> 02:00:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, definition of the band. So we had those records

2281
02:00:10,280 --> 02:00:12,320
Speaker 2: and we wanted to make sure that when we left,

2282
02:00:12,440 --> 02:00:15,880
Speaker 2: those records were set up as good as possible, Like

2283
02:00:15,960 --> 02:00:17,560
Speaker 2: we can get you to the goal line. You guys

2284
02:00:17,600 --> 02:00:18,880
Speaker 2: got to get it over because we're not going to

2285
02:00:18,920 --> 02:00:20,240
Speaker 2: be there, but we're going to get it as far

2286
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:24,760
Speaker 2: as we possibly can. And I remember we did. We

2287
02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:27,000
Speaker 2: wanted to go visit the branches, right because you know

2288
02:00:27,480 --> 02:00:29,520
Speaker 2: there's people that are working in these branches, because this

2289
02:00:29,640 --> 02:00:32,360
Speaker 2: is still in the the physical distribution, right, so you're

2290
02:00:32,400 --> 02:00:34,800
Speaker 2: taking records and stores, you're doing this right. Our whole

2291
02:00:34,840 --> 02:00:38,040
Speaker 2: thing was, man, let's go visit these people and we'll

2292
02:00:38,120 --> 02:00:40,800
Speaker 2: take mid Condition with us, and we'll take UH and

2293
02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:43,880
Speaker 2: Nesby with us. And well that's important. That was the

2294
02:00:44,040 --> 02:00:45,640
Speaker 2: it was the most important thing. Well they didn't think

2295
02:00:45,640 --> 02:00:48,560
Speaker 2: it was important. We thought it was important. So once again,

2296
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:51,400
Speaker 2: we financed it ourselves. We just did it ourselves. So

2297
02:00:51,640 --> 02:00:53,280
Speaker 2: what we did is we went we called the brand

2298
02:00:53,280 --> 02:00:55,080
Speaker 2: and the branches were like, what do you mean you

2299
02:00:55,160 --> 02:00:56,600
Speaker 2: want to bring them by? We said, we just want

2300
02:00:56,600 --> 02:00:58,280
Speaker 2: to bring them by, Like what time do you guys

2301
02:00:58,320 --> 02:01:00,200
Speaker 2: do lunch. You guys have like a lunch hours, you

2302
02:01:00,240 --> 02:01:01,960
Speaker 2: have like a lunch room or something, and they're like yeah,

2303
02:01:01,960 --> 02:01:04,000
Speaker 2: and I was like, okay, we're coming. So the employees

2304
02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:05,920
Speaker 2: would all be in there eating lunch. We'd all bust in.

2305
02:01:06,080 --> 02:01:08,440
Speaker 2: We'd go hey, we're jam and Lewis and whatever, and everybody.

2306
02:01:09,880 --> 02:01:15,200
Speaker 6: Started because started of course, because it was.

2307
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:17,320
Speaker 1: We did it too.

2308
02:01:17,880 --> 02:01:20,840
Speaker 2: It's important though to me it's important. It's like because

2309
02:01:20,840 --> 02:01:21,360
Speaker 2: how did you know?

2310
02:01:21,480 --> 02:01:22,160
Speaker 1: That was important?

2311
02:01:22,640 --> 02:01:24,960
Speaker 2: Because it was we were getting to the age of

2312
02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:29,000
Speaker 2: it was fax machines, the beginning of the internet was happening,

2313
02:01:29,080 --> 02:01:31,320
Speaker 2: the idea cell phones were beginning to happen. It was

2314
02:01:31,400 --> 02:01:34,480
Speaker 2: kind of the idea that you didn't you know, two

2315
02:01:34,560 --> 02:01:40,040
Speaker 2: way pages. It was the idea of personalization was out

2316
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:42,080
Speaker 2: of it, you know, where you weren't really spending personal

2317
02:01:42,160 --> 02:01:47,320
Speaker 2: time with people, and to me, that was getting lost.

2318
02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:50,720
Speaker 2: Plus there was kind of this thing where the stars

2319
02:01:50,800 --> 02:01:54,320
Speaker 2: were here, but the people really in the trenches that

2320
02:01:54,400 --> 02:01:57,640
Speaker 2: were doing the work were getting no respect. And as

2321
02:01:57,800 --> 02:01:59,960
Speaker 2: people that we felt always felt, we started in the trend.

2322
02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:02,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm the guy remember at a beginning of

2323
02:02:02,680 --> 02:02:04,520
Speaker 2: our thing, I'm at the record store telling the guy

2324
02:02:04,640 --> 02:02:07,600
Speaker 2: order our thousand of these and we can I'm putting

2325
02:02:07,680 --> 02:02:09,920
Speaker 2: up my little playlist thing and I'm doing.

2326
02:02:09,960 --> 02:02:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean, that was my thing.

2327
02:02:11,080 --> 02:02:13,240
Speaker 2: And Terry the same way. We were like entrepreneurs. We

2328
02:02:13,320 --> 02:02:15,000
Speaker 2: were like no, no, no, no, we got It's about

2329
02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:19,480
Speaker 2: the personal interaction where if I tell somebody this record's

2330
02:02:19,520 --> 02:02:21,800
Speaker 2: going to be a great record, they trust me because

2331
02:02:21,800 --> 02:02:23,720
Speaker 2: I'm looking in the eye and I'm saying this. So

2332
02:02:23,880 --> 02:02:27,120
Speaker 2: if we actually bring the talent to them when they're

2333
02:02:27,200 --> 02:02:31,200
Speaker 2: out there fussing with an account about you know, well

2334
02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:33,400
Speaker 2: we can only stock this many of them, and then

2335
02:02:33,520 --> 02:02:37,320
Speaker 2: you've actually met the person me. Yeah, it's like no, no, no,

2336
02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:39,960
Speaker 2: we met these people. They actually came. And what we

2337
02:02:40,040 --> 02:02:42,080
Speaker 2: would do is we'd visit the branch during the day

2338
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:44,720
Speaker 2: and then at night we would rent a club out

2339
02:02:44,920 --> 02:02:47,040
Speaker 2: and we'd have everybody come to the club and we'd

2340
02:02:47,080 --> 02:02:49,440
Speaker 2: invite you know, we'd say, bring your people right, and

2341
02:02:49,520 --> 02:02:51,800
Speaker 2: then we do like a full on performance. And we

2342
02:02:51,920 --> 02:02:54,240
Speaker 2: went to like about six or seven branches and we

2343
02:02:54,320 --> 02:02:58,880
Speaker 2: did that, and I remember the day or the week

2344
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:00,880
Speaker 2: we left. I remember what kind of man would I be?

2345
02:03:01,000 --> 02:03:03,920
Speaker 2: Was at number two? It was already set to go

2346
02:03:04,080 --> 02:03:05,800
Speaker 2: number one. We already had the spins. We knew we

2347
02:03:05,880 --> 02:03:09,320
Speaker 2: were sat there Anne's record. I can't remember where we

2348
02:03:09,360 --> 02:03:10,840
Speaker 2: were at with Anne, but she was like getting ready

2349
02:03:10,840 --> 02:03:13,160
Speaker 2: to go top ten Urban like she was. She was there.

2350
02:03:13,240 --> 02:03:15,960
Speaker 2: So we were good, and I remember we left and

2351
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:18,480
Speaker 2: I remember the next week when what kind of man

2352
02:03:18,520 --> 02:03:22,560
Speaker 2: would I be? When number one? I remember they called

2353
02:03:23,320 --> 02:03:26,840
Speaker 2: men because Stokely told me and they said, see what

2354
02:03:26,920 --> 02:03:28,520
Speaker 2: we can do now that jam and Lewis are out

2355
02:03:28,560 --> 02:03:39,040
Speaker 2: the way? Wow, I said so, and we were laughed

2356
02:03:39,040 --> 02:03:40,640
Speaker 2: and we were like because I mean, they were at

2357
02:03:40,680 --> 02:03:42,320
Speaker 2: a studio and we were laughing, and I said, okay,

2358
02:03:42,440 --> 02:03:44,440
Speaker 2: I said, well, just remember we were in the winnebego

2359
02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:48,080
Speaker 2: with y'all. So just just remember that when it came

2360
02:03:48,200 --> 02:03:51,200
Speaker 2: time to do their next video, they told him there

2361
02:03:51,280 --> 02:03:54,160
Speaker 2: was no budget for it. And they called us right

2362
02:03:54,240 --> 02:03:56,120
Speaker 2: up and they said, they just told us there's no

2363
02:03:56,160 --> 02:03:57,640
Speaker 2: budget for the video. And I said, yeah, they used

2364
02:03:57,640 --> 02:03:59,440
Speaker 2: to tell this that all the time. They said, well,

2365
02:03:59,440 --> 02:04:00,920
Speaker 2: our videos go made it. I said yeah, because we

2366
02:04:00,960 --> 02:04:02,600
Speaker 2: took the money out of our pocket of major videos.

2367
02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:06,800
Speaker 2: You know. So that's what we that's what we dealt with.

2368
02:04:07,200 --> 02:04:10,480
Speaker 2: And and you know, can I ask though? So we

2369
02:04:11,000 --> 02:04:14,040
Speaker 2: we did an episode with Babyface, and he explained that.

2370
02:04:15,560 --> 02:04:18,800
Speaker 1: The only way for the Face to really be successful

2371
02:04:18,920 --> 02:04:23,720
Speaker 1: was that those two had to separate, and you know,

2372
02:04:24,480 --> 02:04:30,600
Speaker 1: Antonio stopped producing and become full time CEO of the label.

2373
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2374
02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:35,120
Speaker 1: Was there at any point where you thought, Okay, I'm

2375
02:04:35,120 --> 02:04:37,480
Speaker 1: gonna handle all the music, or you handle all the

2376
02:04:37,600 --> 02:04:42,960
Speaker 1: music and I'm gonna go be Barry Gordy or or

2377
02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:44,640
Speaker 1: Clarence yeah president.

2378
02:04:45,120 --> 02:04:50,240
Speaker 2: Never? Yeah, never, because that would have been Terry. Terry

2379
02:04:50,280 --> 02:04:53,560
Speaker 2: would have been the Barry Gordy and he didn't want

2380
02:04:53,560 --> 02:04:56,560
Speaker 2: to do it. He liked doing music too much. He

2381
02:04:56,880 --> 02:04:59,840
Speaker 2: has the business mind and all of that to do,

2382
02:05:00,160 --> 02:05:01,880
Speaker 2: and he would sit on the marketing calls and sit

2383
02:05:01,960 --> 02:05:04,200
Speaker 2: on the promotion calls. I mean, it was great because

2384
02:05:04,240 --> 02:05:07,480
Speaker 2: we learned, I mean, when we inherited the music department,

2385
02:05:08,400 --> 02:05:12,840
Speaker 2: we learned every facet of the record company business, which

2386
02:05:12,960 --> 02:05:18,000
Speaker 2: was fantastic. That was great. But we talked about it.

2387
02:05:18,080 --> 02:05:20,680
Speaker 2: It was about one of the shortest conversations we probably

2388
02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:23,200
Speaker 2: ever had, and it's like, Terry, would you ever think

2389
02:05:23,240 --> 02:05:25,920
Speaker 2: that you would want to know? That's it? That was

2390
02:05:26,040 --> 02:05:29,160
Speaker 2: basically it. I mean that literally, that was basically the

2391
02:05:29,200 --> 02:05:31,440
Speaker 2: conversation because yeah, No, he had no interest in doing that.

2392
02:05:31,560 --> 02:05:34,840
Speaker 2: He loved making music too much, and so no, we

2393
02:05:34,960 --> 02:05:39,360
Speaker 2: never really had that that that conversation and talking about perspective.

2394
02:05:39,400 --> 02:05:42,400
Speaker 2: The thing. The thing I remember too that I always thought,

2395
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:44,760
Speaker 2: always felt very proud of and this includes La to

2396
02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:48,760
Speaker 2: this day when La talks about because the Face was

2397
02:05:49,160 --> 02:05:57,080
Speaker 2: very successful label, but La to this day says to me, like, man,

2398
02:05:57,200 --> 02:06:00,480
Speaker 2: y'all were like the label that everybody wanted to be

2399
02:06:01,280 --> 02:06:04,760
Speaker 2: because y'all had sounds of blackness, like you had like

2400
02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:08,280
Speaker 2: a real group that meant something, and you had, you know,

2401
02:06:08,400 --> 02:06:11,160
Speaker 2: men condition like a real band, like the last real

2402
02:06:11,280 --> 02:06:17,000
Speaker 2: band that was out there. And I remember that other

2403
02:06:17,160 --> 02:06:22,640
Speaker 2: companies would call for our stuff, like our promotion people

2404
02:06:22,680 --> 02:06:24,320
Speaker 2: and that, you know, would be like, hey, can you

2405
02:06:24,400 --> 02:06:26,240
Speaker 2: send me such and such and such a we go

2406
02:06:26,360 --> 02:06:28,680
Speaker 2: who's that? Oh that's so on so over at Atlantic

2407
02:06:28,840 --> 02:06:31,200
Speaker 2: or that's so and so over whatever, Like the other

2408
02:06:31,360 --> 02:06:34,920
Speaker 2: labels had more respect for our product than our own.

2409
02:06:37,160 --> 02:06:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. So, I mean it was it was a

2410
02:06:40,400 --> 02:06:42,360
Speaker 2: crazy time, and you know, but but it's you know,

2411
02:06:42,560 --> 02:06:45,200
Speaker 2: it's about partnership. You know, there's a reason me and

2412
02:06:45,280 --> 02:06:48,440
Speaker 2: Terry get along and and and we've been together for

2413
02:06:49,000 --> 02:06:51,880
Speaker 2: five known Terry for forty five years, and there's a

2414
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:57,000
Speaker 2: reason why. There's also a reason why a partnership with

2415
02:06:57,080 --> 02:06:59,600
Speaker 2: Herb and Jerry would have been great. We had a

2416
02:06:59,640 --> 02:07:01,880
Speaker 2: potent partnership that we thought we were gonna have with

2417
02:07:01,960 --> 02:07:04,480
Speaker 2: Doug Morris, and then Doug Morris got kicked way upstairs

2418
02:07:04,480 --> 02:07:07,440
Speaker 2: at Universal. But Doug Morris used to be like somebody

2419
02:07:07,480 --> 02:07:09,880
Speaker 2: we really vibed with. He had a piano in his office.

2420
02:07:10,400 --> 02:07:12,080
Speaker 2: He was great music music.

2421
02:07:12,760 --> 02:07:14,880
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that's what I didn't.

2422
02:07:15,160 --> 02:07:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he was, and that was the great that

2423
02:07:17,760 --> 02:07:20,360
Speaker 2: was cool. And when when when back when we mentioned

2424
02:07:21,160 --> 02:07:24,240
Speaker 2: a little red boat and when you talk about Angel Grant,

2425
02:07:25,360 --> 02:07:29,480
Speaker 2: that was when we did the label with Universal. That

2426
02:07:29,760 --> 02:07:32,040
Speaker 2: was the whole thing. That was Doug Morris's thing. And

2427
02:07:32,240 --> 02:07:34,960
Speaker 2: Doug loved Angel Grant and he said, I love this girl.

2428
02:07:35,760 --> 02:07:37,880
Speaker 2: I really get it. This is gonna be great. And

2429
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:39,600
Speaker 2: he would fly when he was flying from LA to

2430
02:07:39,680 --> 02:07:42,520
Speaker 2: New York. He'd stop through Minneapolis along the way, listened

2431
02:07:42,520 --> 02:07:43,680
Speaker 2: to the sessions, that.

2432
02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:44,240
Speaker 1: Kind of thing.

2433
02:07:44,320 --> 02:07:48,680
Speaker 2: So he was into it. Around the time the record

2434
02:07:48,800 --> 02:07:52,880
Speaker 2: came out, he got kicked way upstairs to the head right,

2435
02:07:52,960 --> 02:07:55,920
Speaker 2: because this whole thing was Universal was just a little

2436
02:07:55,960 --> 02:07:59,080
Speaker 2: boutique label. And his whole thing was I'm gonna show

2437
02:07:59,080 --> 02:08:00,880
Speaker 2: people how to make a lo this is how you're

2438
02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:02,360
Speaker 2: going to do a label, and so we were part

2439
02:08:02,400 --> 02:08:05,400
Speaker 2: of that kind of master plan that he had. So

2440
02:08:05,480 --> 02:08:07,840
Speaker 2: when that happened, all of a sudden, now we're dealing

2441
02:08:07,960 --> 02:08:12,480
Speaker 2: once again with the business affairs guy. No, it wasn't Monty.

2442
02:08:14,120 --> 02:08:16,640
Speaker 2: He was like the attorney and stuff. He like ran

2443
02:08:17,280 --> 02:08:20,800
Speaker 2: stuff for a while and it was super nice guy,

2444
02:08:20,880 --> 02:08:22,600
Speaker 2: but just no offense. He just wasn't the music guy.

2445
02:08:22,680 --> 02:08:24,280
Speaker 2: Like we got into it to be like with another

2446
02:08:24,360 --> 02:08:27,920
Speaker 2: music guy and that didn't happen. So, you know, it's

2447
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:30,320
Speaker 2: just trying to it's it's it's all about the partnerships

2448
02:08:30,360 --> 02:08:32,440
Speaker 2: and and and the relationships. At the end of the day,

2449
02:08:32,800 --> 02:08:34,800
Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter what the label is if if

2450
02:08:34,840 --> 02:08:37,120
Speaker 2: it's the right people in there. It's anywhere is a

2451
02:08:37,160 --> 02:08:40,880
Speaker 2: great home if it's the right people. But sometimes it's

2452
02:08:41,000 --> 02:08:45,400
Speaker 2: just not And then you find yourself, you know, you're

2453
02:08:45,520 --> 02:08:48,200
Speaker 2: just you just spinning your wheels basically because you're working

2454
02:08:48,240 --> 02:08:50,080
Speaker 2: really hard on something that you really believe in. But

2455
02:08:50,160 --> 02:08:53,480
Speaker 2: if the people aren't believing it with you, then nothing's

2456
02:08:53,480 --> 02:08:55,280
Speaker 2: going to happen with it doesn't really matter who you are.

2457
02:08:56,840 --> 02:08:59,440
Speaker 1: And that's it for part two of our Conversation with Jimmy.

2458
02:08:59,520 --> 02:09:01,960
Speaker 1: Jim thank you for tuning in. Guys. Join us next

2459
02:09:02,000 --> 02:09:05,280
Speaker 1: week for the third and final installment, Quest Love Supreme

2460
02:09:05,440 --> 02:09:11,400
Speaker 1: Flight Time Trilogy with Jimmy jam Quest Love Supreme is

2461
02:09:11,400 --> 02:09:15,280
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by

2462
02:09:15,440 --> 02:09:22,240
Speaker 1: the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

2463
02:09:22,280 --> 02:09:25,840
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

2464
02:09:25,880 --> 02:09:26,680
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.