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Speaker 1: Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode

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Speaker 1: was produced by the team at Pandora.

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Speaker 2: Hey, what's up y'all?

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Speaker 1: This is Questlove And as you noticed throughout June, we

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Speaker 1: are celebrating Black Music Month by releasing an episode every day.

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Speaker 2: So every day you're either going to hear a specially

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Speaker 2: pick QLs classic and on Wednesdays we're dropping new two

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Speaker 2: part episodes with Wade Brady and James Poyser, both of

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Speaker 2: which were filmed in studio, so make sure you also

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Speaker 2: watch us on YouTube. Now we're part one, Part two,

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Speaker 2: and part three of my all time favorite QLs episode.

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Speaker 2: This is the legendary Jimmy Jam. What's up y'all?

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Speaker 1: This is Questlove and this is QLs Classic, And this

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Speaker 1: is the second of our three part series with producer

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Jam. Last episode we explored his life in Minnesota

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Speaker 1: and enjoining the group at the time and getting fired

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Speaker 1: by Prince. And now this episode we talk about working

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Speaker 1: with artists like Charelle, Alexander O'Neil, Patty Austin, New Edition,

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Speaker 1: the SOS Band, the Human League, and also Jane.

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Speaker 2: Jackson, all Top ten artists.

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Speaker 3: We also discussed the creative process in songwriting and producing

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Speaker 3: and becoming businessman.

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Speaker 2: This is a really, really great episode. I hope you enjoyed.

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Speaker 2: All Right, let's go.

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Speaker 1: So obviously you guys go to get Alex back. But

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Speaker 1: how did Charelle?

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Speaker 2: We do? So?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so actually yeah, so Charelle's the next one. So Charrelle,

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Speaker 3: you know, after So West band jumped off, Clarence had

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Speaker 3: signed Charrell. She was from Detroit. He said, I signed

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Speaker 3: this girl from Detroit. So she's kind of young and raw,

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Speaker 3: but I think you guys could do something with or

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Speaker 3: whatever whatever. I remember we met her, we hung out

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Speaker 3: with her, loved her, you know, and I remember it

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Speaker 3: was a reason we moved back. Cherot was the reason

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Speaker 3: we moved back to Minneapolis. We were working in a studio.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember what studio was, but she had always

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Speaker 3: done backup singing, not a lot of lead singing, and

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Speaker 3: it was just a very nervous thing. We're always watching

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Speaker 3: the clock and you know, cockness and of the of

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Speaker 3: the budget, and it was just this kind of pressure thing.

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Speaker 3: So we knew these guys in Minneapolis had had a

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Speaker 3: studio down their basement, and we said, maybe we'll go

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Speaker 3: back to Minneapolis and record it'll be like a less

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Speaker 3: pressure and whatever, whatever, whatever. And I remember the very

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Speaker 3: first day we walked in the studio. It was called

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Speaker 3: Creation Audio and it was down the basement of a

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Speaker 3: little house. First song we did was didn't mean to

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Speaker 3: turn you on? Wow, And when that happened, we were like,

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Speaker 3: Terry just said, we need to just move back to

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Speaker 3: Minneapolis because we can make music anywhere, but we should

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Speaker 3: just do it this kind of environment where we can

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Speaker 3: just create and not worry about the high pressure, you know,

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Speaker 3: and the high prices.

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Speaker 2: Of la you recorded in that basement. Yeah, Okay, Now

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna start with the creative process.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how does Jimmy jim on that?

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Speaker 2: By the way, on this various yeah that is that

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Speaker 2: didn't mean to turn you on?

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Speaker 1: How does Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis construct a song?

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Speaker 2: Who does the lyrics, who does the There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of different ways that it happened.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's take I didn't mean because what I

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Speaker 1: really want to get into is that's the point.

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Speaker 2: That's the song that I felt that you.

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Speaker 1: Really started coming on your own as a drum programmer,

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Speaker 1: especially assuming that did you guys do your own remix

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Speaker 1: edits and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, which also.

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Speaker 1: Qlis listeners continues the theory that all really masterful, great producers,

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Speaker 1: awesome DJs. So this is the doctor dre theory all

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Speaker 1: over again. So, because you're doing a lot of intricate

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Speaker 1: stuff there, and I was kind of saying this question

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Speaker 1: for the Control album.

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Speaker 2: But who's teaching you? I mean, who's teaching you these patches.

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Speaker 1: And these programming stuff? I mean I still barely get

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Speaker 1: past page three on the Drummer's Manual of any drum

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Speaker 1: machine I ever get, and there's no pro tools and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Are you editing and cutting tape? Or like, what are you?

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Speaker 2: How are you doing this stuff?

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Speaker 3: Well, a little bit of everything. So didn't mean to

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Speaker 3: turn you on though, was real simple. So the DMX,

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Speaker 3: that's a DMX drum machine, Yes he was, And so

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Speaker 3: I learned the DMX drum machine really from Leon Silvers.

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Speaker 2: He had one.

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Speaker 3: He was he was one of the people that just

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Speaker 3: there was always a drum machine laying around the studio,

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Speaker 3: and he met a certain point he made a transition

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Speaker 3: where he would cut things with the drum machine. But

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Speaker 3: then the drummer from lakeside, and I can't remember his

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Speaker 3: name was amazing. He would come back in and play

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Speaker 3: real drums because because Leons still liked the idea of

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Speaker 3: real drums. But he had a metronome and he could

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Speaker 3: just lock right in. Not all drummers could do that,

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Speaker 3: could play with a drum machine, but he could. But

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Speaker 3: he always had one around, so I just would always

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Speaker 3: mess around with it. And so uh, same thing with

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Speaker 3: the lin drum. Prince always had a line drummer around,

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Speaker 3: So I just would always mess My whole thing was

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Speaker 3: I would just pick up stuff and just start messing

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Speaker 3: around with it. And I think because I was a drummer,

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Speaker 3: it all just made sense to me. But I never

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Speaker 3: but and it's funny, you said, you don't get past

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Speaker 3: h page three. I never picked a manual up. I've

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Speaker 3: never read a drum machine manual in my life.

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Speaker 2: Man bragged.

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Speaker 3: I'm not bragging. I just I just it doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 3: It's just kind of trial and errors. Just you just

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Speaker 3: kind of mess around and until you come up with

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Speaker 3: stuff that did make.

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Speaker 2: Sense to me.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm asking because like even like in the bridge

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Speaker 1: of that song, like these these roles that you're programming yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the various handclaps, yeah yeah, the s billets and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff towards the end. I'm assuming that that

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Speaker 1: stuff has to be pre programmed, as in your thinking

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Speaker 1: in your head. Okay, four of bars from the beginning

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Speaker 1: or even the beginning before this song starts, Like again,

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Speaker 1: is this without pro in the age of pro tools? Now,

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Speaker 1: I could just punch anything in, yes, one, and then

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Speaker 1: copy and paste and do whatever I please. But you

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Speaker 1: didn't have it then, right, So are you sitting there

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Speaker 1: with the map of the format of the song?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: No, My thing was always I would always put the

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Speaker 3: drum beat down. That would always be the first thing.

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Speaker 3: And I knew that sometimes there was a format, like

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Speaker 3: I knew on that particular song, I kind of knew

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Speaker 3: what the format was in my mind. So but I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't ever program a song from start to finish on

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Speaker 3: the drum machine. I would physically put in a pattern

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Speaker 3: like the beginning of that song, which is just a handclaps.

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Speaker 3: I think that would be one pattern. Then I'd put

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Speaker 3: the next pattern in, which was the main you know,

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Speaker 3: whatever that was. Then the change was the boom boom,

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Speaker 3: That would be another thing. So turn the tape on

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Speaker 3: press play, go to my thing. Then as the song's playing,

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking in my head, okay, now it sounds like

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Speaker 3: it's change here, and I just go to the change

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Speaker 3: and then I go back to the main part and

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Speaker 3: I go to the change.

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Speaker 2: Now, most of the time it worked pretty good because empty.

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Speaker 3: No not locked to Simpty at all. I used to

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Speaker 3: drive people, know, No, I used to drive people crazy

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Speaker 3: with that because crazy because because engineers would get get it.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at Steve right now, like, see, I'm not alone, Steve. No.

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Speaker 3: We'd send stuff out to get remixed, and they'd always say,

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Speaker 3: what's the SIMPTY start time?

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Speaker 2: And we go, we don't know.

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Speaker 3: It didn't lock the Simpty were just just play. You

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Speaker 3: turn the tape on and you play, and that that

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Speaker 3: was the way we always did. It didn't mean.

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Speaker 2: To turn you out.

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Speaker 3: Was interesting because that song was very heavily influenced by

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Speaker 3: the system.

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Speaker 2: I can see that the systems.

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Speaker 3: The system did a lot of that and that kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff. The difference was they hooked everything together so

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Speaker 3: that it was sequenced, and I didn't do that because

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Speaker 3: I didn't know how to do that. So I never sequenced.

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Speaker 3: There was never a sequenced keyboard.

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Speaker 1: Not even if you synthesize it work and your base

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Speaker 1: were No, they're doing that by hand, by hand. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like a minute yeah song like Innocent Yo, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the whole Innocent suite twelve minutes long.

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Speaker 3: Yeahs twelve minutes playing for twelve minutes. And and also

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Speaker 3: and that's and that's an interesting and and and Innocent

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Speaker 3: is an interesting one too, because that's one where we

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Speaker 3: put the drum part down first, and then we had

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Speaker 3: to figure out what we were.

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Speaker 2: Going to put on top of it.

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Speaker 3: You know, that made sense, But that I got from Prince,

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Speaker 3: because Prince would do that.

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Speaker 2: Can you ask you a question for me?

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Speaker 1: Even though I don't know if you were, Were you

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Speaker 1: ever physically there.

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Speaker 2: For time recordings? No other than they sing or anything? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Like a song like the Walk, which is nine minutes,

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Speaker 1: how does he know? And bar one seventy six Mayor's

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Speaker 1: wait mother like that part? Like does he map out

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Speaker 1: even the dialogue?

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Speaker 3: And no, you put the groove down, so like literally

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Speaker 3: on the Walk, it would basically be him on the

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Speaker 3: bass and Morris on the drums and they would just

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Speaker 3: play for nine minutes. And so Prince would kind of

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Speaker 3: in his mind think, well, this might be a verse,

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Speaker 3: this might be a chorus, whatever, this might be just

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Speaker 3: a jam session whatever. Then there'll be you listen to

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Speaker 3: it back, you put the chords over the top of it,

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Speaker 3: and then the little horn stabs and stuff you do

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Speaker 3: based on the breaks and some of that other stuff.

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Speaker 3: He knew, he didn't know what everything was gonna be.

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Speaker 3: You just kind of created as it's going along and

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Speaker 3: let the drums and the bass line dictate what you

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Speaker 3: then put on top of it. So it's very spontanous.

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Speaker 3: Whether it sounds so spontaneous because it literally was spontaneous.

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Speaker 3: Now you could go back and do it like if

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Speaker 3: you like, if there's a lick that Morris would do

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Speaker 3: a ko on the drums and then you'd hear it

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Speaker 3: and you go, oh, let's put a horn line on it.

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Speaker 2: Cling okay, okay, right.

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Speaker 3: But you just kind of took each piece of the

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Speaker 3: song until it was filled, until it was a full song.

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Speaker 3: So we kind of took See that's the thing, if

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Speaker 3: you think about it, we took a lot of lessons

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Speaker 3: from what Leon did, what Leon Silvers did. We took

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Speaker 3: a lot of lessons from what Prince did, and then

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Speaker 3: we took a lot of lessons from just listening to

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Speaker 3: records that were out and things that we liked, and

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Speaker 3: just applied them to the way we record.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: But we had great teachers. I mean, we had great teachers.

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Speaker 3: There were great records. Not to mention all the records

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Speaker 3: growing up we listen into, you know, so you know

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Speaker 3: that to me, it is kind of the thing and

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Speaker 3: so for us.

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Speaker 2: But I I couldn't sequence. And that's the thing.

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Speaker 3: I never opened up emanual, So I didn't know. I

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Speaker 3: had a d m X drum machine in ob eight. Okay,

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Speaker 3: they're supposed to talk to each other through the d SX,

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Speaker 3: which was the right sequence.

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Speaker 2: We have a d s X has never been never

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Speaker 2: been touched because I know how to hook it. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. I never knew how to hook it up.

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Speaker 3: I I and to that and tell you the only

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Speaker 3: reason I ever even started sequencing at all was one

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Speaker 3: I had a drum programmer, uh uh, or just a

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Speaker 3: programmer in general named Alex Richberg.

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Speaker 2: It was from New York originally, and wait, how do

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Speaker 2: you know?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and he was the one that got me

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Speaker 3: into well he was he was the one that really

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Speaker 3: started putting. We were talking earlier before we started the interview.

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Speaker 3: We were talking about how hip hop influenced R and B.

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Speaker 3: But he was a true hip hop head that was

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Speaker 3: incorporated into our camp, which really he had the whole

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Speaker 3: kind of hip hop sensibility from the MPC. That's he

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Speaker 3: introduced me to the NPC drum machine and all those

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Speaker 3: things and the idea of that type of sampling because

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Speaker 3: I never sampled in a drum machine. I usually just

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Speaker 3: used like a little AMS sample or something like that.

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Speaker 3: So he was the one that really opened my mind

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Speaker 3: up to the incorporating hip hop into you know art

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Speaker 3: the way we did R and B records, particularly with Janet,

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Speaker 3: but with a lot of other you know acts too.

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Speaker 3: So he was a really important part. But up until

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Speaker 3: I met him, and that was, like you said, Velvet

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Speaker 3: rope era so ninety seven, I guess or something like that.

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Speaker 3: I never And even after that, I remember he would

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Speaker 3: hook stuff up so it would be like ready for

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Speaker 3: to sequence, Like what was the one that we did? Oh,

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Speaker 3: god till it's gone, God till it's gone. He hooked,

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Speaker 3: He hooked everything up together, and he said make a

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Speaker 3: record and don't do it in this box, don't do

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Speaker 3: it outside of the thing. And the reason the record

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Speaker 3: sounds the way it sounds, it's because I did the

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Speaker 3: simplest thing I could possibly do, which was called blunt blunt,

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Speaker 3: blunt blunt, right, because that's all I knew how to do.

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Speaker 3: And it was like okay, and I said, okay, here,

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Speaker 3: I got some men, Now what do we do now?

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Speaker 3: And it's like, okay, now we'll We'll make the song. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but you know what I'm saying. But that's why that

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Speaker 3: turned out like that. And literally, when that song was done,

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Speaker 3: I unplugged all that stuff and said, I'm not making

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Speaker 3: records like that no more.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't. I couldn't do it.

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Speaker 3: You got a hit out of it, got a hit

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Speaker 3: out of it, and and and and the only thing

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Speaker 3: after that and and and when I discovered logic. See

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Speaker 3: when when garage band came out, I thought, oh, this

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Speaker 3: is cute. But then when somebody said, oh, logic, it's like,

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Speaker 3: do you know how to work garage band?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: But that's when I said, oh, wait, okay, I can

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Speaker 3: do this. This is this makes sense to me because

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Speaker 3: he always used logic back in the day when it

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Speaker 3: was hard to use. So I said, oh, I can

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Speaker 3: figure this out. I know the theory of this. But no,

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Speaker 3: all of those records all just played by hand. Like

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Speaker 3: I remember what was one we did. Oh, I just

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Speaker 3: heard it the other day. Tell me Houston used to hotel. Yeah,

283
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Speaker 3: but that's all.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's by hand, by hand, whole record. Just be

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Speaker 2: good to me.

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Speaker 3: That's not no, no, no no, that's all played every

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Speaker 3: all of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Borrow, that's a long that's long to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I had but I had great chops then

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Speaker 3: because that stuff compared to what Prince had us going

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Speaker 3: through and rehearsal. See, Prince prepared me for all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: You know, Prince would have me uh like seven seven

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Speaker 3: seven that's famous. Well, I don't know if that's a

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Speaker 3: famous story. I told it to a bunch of people though.

295
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Speaker 3: You know, we're doing seven seven seven ninety three eleven

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Speaker 3: and my part was just doubling Terry's uh basseline uh

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Speaker 3: with this kind of ob eight sound right, and then

298
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Speaker 3: I'd do like a little string part and that was it.

299
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Speaker 2: Right.

300
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Speaker 3: So I remember we were rehearsing a song and Prince goes,

301
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Speaker 3: Jimmy jam, what are you doing with your left hand

302
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Speaker 3: and I said nothing, Prince, I was doing the bassline.

303
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Speaker 3: He said, he said you should done. He says, do

304
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Speaker 3: the bassline, but then you should do the chords with

305
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Speaker 3: Monty oh. And I said, well, it's not like that

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Speaker 3: on the record. And he says, it's got to be

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Speaker 3: better than the record. That was always his Thing's got

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Speaker 3: to be better than the record. It's like, okay, cool.

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Speaker 3: So now I'm like, right, I'm cool, like cool.

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Speaker 2: So we finished the song. He says, what note are

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Speaker 2: you singing on the course?

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Speaker 3: And I said, I'm not singing a note on the chorus.

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Speaker 3: I said, Monty singing, and Terry singing, and Jesse's singing,

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Speaker 3: and then Morris got the main note. Whatever, find a note?

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Speaker 2: Like okay.

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Speaker 3: He says, got to be bigger than the record. He's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: bigger than the record. Okay, cool. Right, So now I'm

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Speaker 3: playing through the seven seven seven ninety three eleven.

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Speaker 2: So I'm singing right, I'm good. We finish.

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Speaker 3: He goes, why aren't you doing the choreography, Jimmy dam

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna dance, I said, Prince, I'm standing at

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Speaker 3: the keyboard. What I'm supposed to It's simple choreography, you

323
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Speaker 3: should be able to do it. So I'm like, okay, cool.

324
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Speaker 3: So I'm like doing so. Now I'm trying to do

325
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 3: the like the little four corner steps, and I'm trying

326
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Speaker 3: to do my hands and I'm trying to sing the note,

327
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Speaker 3: and I'm frustrated. I'm just so pissed off. I cannot

328
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Speaker 3: do it right. And I'm just I'm pissed off. And

329
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Speaker 3: I think about it all night and I'm just pissed off.

330
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Speaker 3: So the next day we come back to rehearsal. He

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Speaker 3: says seven seven seven ninety three eleven, and I'm just like, oh,

332
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Speaker 3: here we go. I start playing perfect by about the

333
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 3: fourth run through of it. Now I'm tipping my hat,

334
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:43,560
Speaker 3: I'm taking my hand, wiping my face. It became so easy.

335
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Speaker 3: And that taught me work ethic. That that was the

336
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 3: thing that taught me that he had a belief, like

337
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 3: a good coach, you can always do more. You can

338
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 3: always do more. You can't settle you, you know. But

339
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 3: he saw that I could do more and push me

340
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Speaker 3: to do it. So from that moment on, all stuff

341
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 3: in the studio where you can make a mistake and

342
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 3: who you know, whatever, But no, I mean that was

343
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,880
Speaker 3: simple to play. To play ten minutes out of the song

344
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 3: was easy because forget about the rehearsals working fad.

345
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Speaker 1: Question since you brought it up, Yeah, has jelly Bean

346
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 1: ever played it proper once in these shows?

347
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 3: No, he can't. He can't play it. I've never heard

348
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 3: a drummer play it correctly. The drummer that plays that

349
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Speaker 3: the closest is is Morse Wow. Really because yeah, because

350
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Speaker 3: Morris is a David Garibaldi fanatic guy and that Yeah.

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Speaker 1: For our listeners that haven't seen any other interviews, we

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Speaker 1: won't mention.

353
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Speaker 2: David Garibaldi.

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00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,919
Speaker 1: I guess principled a Swiss beat and just broke our

355
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 1: hearts by using the stock program.

356
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Speaker 2: Do you know what number it was in the in

357
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:47,879
Speaker 2: the drum No?

358
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 3: I heard it was like it's one of the high ones,

359
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,160
Speaker 3: like seventy seven or eighty something or.

360
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,120
Speaker 2: Program still, but it wasn't.

361
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,800
Speaker 3: No, it was different different drummers. When different drummers had

362
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,600
Speaker 3: different beats in that drummer shap oh, that was that

363
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,439
Speaker 3: was part of the whole kind of selling point of

364
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 3: it was they gave it to different drummers, and different

365
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,119
Speaker 3: drummers program their own beats.

366
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 1: Do you still have the drum with those programs in there.

367
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 2: It exists.

368
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,359
Speaker 3: I'm sure it exists, but we we never had it.

369
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,359
Speaker 3: That was always that was always Princess. That was always Princess.

370
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,720
Speaker 3: Yeah one, but yeah, I know David Garabaldi, but but

371
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 3: but yeah, that was Morris's.

372
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:23,880
Speaker 2: Dude.

373
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,440
Speaker 3: If you ever hear Morris play the drums, that's he

374
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,479
Speaker 3: can do all of that tower of power stuff, like

375
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 3: just crazy, it's amazing.

376
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

377
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Speaker 1: I didn't know what a drum machine was at the time,

378
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 1: so I spent like all of eighty two doing the

379
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,199
Speaker 1: hand claps and the drum machine. And someone told me

380
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,400
Speaker 1: that's a drum machine. That was heartbroken because I thought

381
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,040
Speaker 1: all that stuff was real.

382
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Speaker 2: So you came back for Alex. Was he happy to

383
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,120
Speaker 2: see you guys? Or was it like it's about town?

384
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,679
Speaker 1: Well, no, it was at working at this Perkins restaurant.

385
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 3: Okay, So the Alex thing was so after Charrell, after

386
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,919
Speaker 3: we did Cherrell and Charrell was successful. The next artist

387
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 3: that Clarence brought us was a guy named Jeffrey Robinson.

388
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 3: And this guy was.

389
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 2: He's been stumped.

390
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think. I don't think. I don't think

391
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 3: anybody ever heard of him again. But and I don't

392
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 3: even know where he came from. We were in Minneapolis

393
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 3: now at this point because we'd kind of moved up

394
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 3: and we were working at this creation audio place we

395
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 3: talked about earlier.

396
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,120
Speaker 2: So, uh, anyway, Jeffrey comes to town. Nice looking guy.

397
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,639
Speaker 2: I remember he had an ascot. He was very.

398
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 3: Sophisticated in the whole thing and whatever. Now we had

399
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 3: already done the tracks. We had already done you know,

400
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,479
Speaker 3: if you were here tonight, and I think we had

401
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 3: done that. Look at us now in another track I

402
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 3: can't remember. Do you want to like I do? We

403
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 3: had done those three tracks with Monteex Baltimore. So we

404
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 3: showed him the songs and we said, okay, come on,

405
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 3: here's what we're gonna do.

406
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 2: Now.

407
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 3: We figure he's going to come in and kill it, right.

408
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 3: So he comes in and his voice cond of he

409
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 3: had one of those voices with there's a real fast vibrido.

410
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 3: So everything was like everything, yeah, exactly, and it was

411
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 3: a little weird and we were like, okay, well whatever,

412
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 3: and he said, yeah, my voice is skipping. He said,

413
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,679
Speaker 3: you know, we'll do it to anybody, have tea anybody,

414
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 3: you know whatever. So it's like, okay, te whatever came

415
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 3: back the next day is the same thing came back

416
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 3: the next day it was the same thing. So we

417
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,639
Speaker 3: called Clarence and we said, Okay, this dude you sent

418
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,160
Speaker 3: up here, I'm not sure, man. He's a nice looking dude,

419
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 3: nice enough cat. I said, I'm not really sure. And

420
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 3: so what do you want to do? And we said,

421
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 3: there's this guy named Alexander O'Neil and he said, hu,

422
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 3: Alexander o' neil was he irish.

423
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 2: He said, no, Clarence, he's a black dude, man.

424
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 3: And I said, but you know what, God the name

425
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 3: was O'Neil for a black man, I said, I don't know, Clarence,

426
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 3: I said, but I said, can we put him on

427
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 3: the songs?

428
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 2: And he said, yeah, yeah, put him on there. I said, okay, cool.

429
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 3: So he went over to Alex's gig and Alex was

430
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,479
Speaker 3: finishing up like one in the morning or whatever it was,

431
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 3: and we said, Alex, I said, we got these songs.

432
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,439
Speaker 3: I said, can you come over and sing them? Like?

433
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 3: I can't remember when we did it that night or

434
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 3: the next day, but we like literally did the three

435
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 3: songs the next day, like he sang them all the

436
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 3: way just like that, like just sang them right. We

437
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 3: sent him to Clarence. Clarence said, who's this mother brother,

438
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,199
Speaker 3: said Alexander Neil. He said, man, he said, bring him

439
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 3: out here. So we did. We brought it, got a plane,

440
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 3: went to La Clarence signed him on the spot.

441
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 1: Did you talk to alex Versus and said, don't.

442
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 2: You know, I think I think he knew got that.

443
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 2: I think he knew. Yeah. We didn't have to say

444
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 2: a thing, but anyway.

445
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, but anyway he got he got signed off of that,

446
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 3: and I don't know to this day what happened to

447
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Robinson, but he was perfectly nice guy, but he

448
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 3: just he just didn't have it. So we took those

449
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 3: same songs, we added uh, you know, broken Heart can

450
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 3: Mend and and and then we figured out we knew

451
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 3: from working with perfect album opening.

452
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: By the way, I love the nerve of you guys

453
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: starting out records albums with mid tempo stuff like I

454
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: would never thought to were you guys also sequencing the

455
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: records once.

456
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 2: Were totally Yeah.

457
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 3: That was one of the great things about doing records

458
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 3: for Clarence because he totally let us. We did the

459
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 3: album opens out really all the space, We did all

460
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: the we did all of the Yeah, we did all

461
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 3: the all the that cover with the diner and the

462
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,239
Speaker 3: whole thing. We did the video, like we conceptualized all

463
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 3: of that stuff. I mean, obviously we have people do it.

464
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 3: I think a guy named Craig Rice did the video.

465
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 3: Who's does a bunch of stuff for HB stuff? Now right, Okay,

466
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 3: he did the actually shot the video, but it was

467
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 3: all our concepts. I mean he basically just let us

468
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 3: do and so we got really got spoiled. I mean

469
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 3: Clarence was amazing, you know, just because we told him.

470
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 3: Clarence had gone in a whole bunch of different things.

471
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,719
Speaker 3: He was doing oil company and he was doing all

472
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 3: these other different things, and we said, Clarence, you need

473
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 3: to be doing music and we're gonna make music fun

474
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 3: for you again, you know, because at a certain point

475
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: he wasn't having fun doing music, and we said, we're

476
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 3: gonna make music fun for you again.

477
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 2: And I think we did that. Well.

478
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: Who who opens an album with mid tempo stuff? Because

479
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: like even with sl S Band, I think no.

480
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 2: One's going to love you opens up sands the time,

481
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 2: Sands the time. Yeah, like that's a risk.

482
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 4: Knowing that was the jam though, because we kind of did.

483
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 2: It with with what do you call it? What's the string? Yeah,

484
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 2: hanging on the string, contemplating.

485
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's like loos ends totally. Yeah, Nick Martinelli,

486
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 3: biggest bier of all time.

487
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: No love lo.

488
00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: No, my thing, my thing, my thing with Nick because actual,

489
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 3: you know, I've never met Nick Martinelli in my life.

490
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 3: He's just a name on a liner note to me.

491
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 3: And I love hanging on string and I love loose sins.

492
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 3: It was the fact that I remember I read they

493
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 3: were asked about it and they were like, oh, it

494
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: sounds nothing like, it doesn't have anything to do with it.

495
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: And I just was like, oh, come on, really, yeah,

496
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 2: that was the thing to me.

497
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 3: It's like, come on now, I'm an admit that at

498
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 3: least if I was influenced by some I'm gonna throw

499
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 3: it out like we just like we just said, you're

500
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 3: talking about the kick drum.

501
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, the system, man's I.

502
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: Mean, but I'm saying, I mean, you know, you could

503
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: your lawyers just could have been.

504
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: Stand by.

505
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I just I mean to me that

506
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 3: that was the thing with that. But no, the Luciens

507
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: Records were amazing, the fifty second Street Records. I mean

508
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: a lot of that, I mean, and that's when we

509
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 3: knew that our influence wasn't just in America, that it

510
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 3: was to the UK and it was like a whole

511
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 3: bunch of different places.

512
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 2: Wait, you didn't do tell me how you feel? No,

513
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: Nick Martinelli did that.

514
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 4: Did BBQ Band's genie it's not uh yo, which is

515
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 4: I don't know who did it they were. I think

516
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 4: they were self produced. I think bbqban bbn q ban

517
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 4: because that always when I first heard, I thought it

518
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 4: was you guys.

519
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 3: Well the first see the first I don't know which record,

520
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 3: but the first ones were done by the guys that

521
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 3: did the Change record, which was the first ones, which

522
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: was a guy named Mario Malavesi and Jacques fred Petres.

523
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 3: They did the BBQ band so because to me it

524
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 3: sounded like the Change record when I heard it, But yeah,

525
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: they were.

526
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 5: We got to get the Change too at some point.

527
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Change was that was an interesting what was it?

528
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: Oh?

529
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 3: No, because we was I heard you guys never got

530
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 3: paid for those somethings, that is that is correct? Well

531
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: we did eventually it came out of somebody else's budget though,

532
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 3: which I don't know remember who it was, but but no,

533
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 3: we did. We went over to Italy to do the

534
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: Change record. We were asked, you know, would we like

535
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 3: to produce the Change album and we said, yeah, we'd.

536
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 2: Love to from Italy.

537
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 3: The the no, the musicians are actually from America, from

538
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 3: mostly New York musicians as a matter of fact. But

539
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 3: the guys that produced it, it was this is Jacques

540
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 3: fred Petris and Mario MALAVESI uh, they were I don't

541
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: know whether they were Italian. I think we're French or

542
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 3: Italian or whatever. But the studio they recorded at was

543
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 3: in Italy. It was actually in Modena in Italy, home

544
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 3: of Ferrari, which I did.

545
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: I didn't know back then.

546
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: I saw, I saw we would pass by this place

547
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 3: it said Ferrari, and it didn't even dawn on me.

548
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 3: That's like the actual Ferrari place, because you know, one

549
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 3: hundred fifty dollars a week.

550
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: I wasn't, you know, I wasn't thinking about it Ferrari,

551
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 2: but it was.

552
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 3: It was a great experience where there was a villa.

553
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 3: I remember the first day we got there, they had

554
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 3: you know, they cooked everything for you.

555
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 2: They did everything right.

556
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 3: So the first day they brought out pasta. Right, we're grubbing,

557
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 3: and we kept saying yeah, more and more, and they're

558
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 3: like looking at me more like yeah, yeah, yeah, And

559
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 3: we get done and we're like sitting back and then

560
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 3: they bring chicken and we're like, we didn't know about

561
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: the whole courses and the whole thing anyway, but the

562
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: change record was cool and we did it. It was

563
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 3: like a farm in the middle of nowhere in this villa.

564
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 3: We were totally bored to death. We would have really appreciated,

565
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 3: and I wish it would have happened when were a

566
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: little older, and we really would have appreciated how cool

567
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 3: of a situation it was. But what it did is

568
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 3: it introduced us to Otari tape machines because they had

569
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 3: Otari tape machines. Everybody had student tape machines. Right this

570
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 3: place had Otari and we loved the machine and we thought, wow,

571
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 3: this is a great machine. So there's all kind of

572
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 3: a little It's funny because every story there's some little thing

573
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 3: that has influenced or something that we've done that's been significant,

574
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 3: and that was a significant thing for us to find

575
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 3: those tape machines because we couldn't afford a student tape machine, right,

576
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: And when we found those tape machines, we got a

577
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 3: great relationship with them and it turned out really well.

578
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 3: There was a guy in Change though named Timmy Allen

579
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 3: who later on Today and R for Jive Records, but

580
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 3: he was the bass player. He wrote the song true

581
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: Love and he wrote on that album.

582
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 2: And a couple other things.

583
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 3: Could have been more talented guy, nicer guy, and uh.

584
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 3: That was a great experience making that record. And then

585
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: we mixed with Michael Brower in New York. And we

586
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 3: were always used to mixing like one song over a

587
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: day or two with Steve Hodge. Michael Brower was banging

588
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: out three songs a day. We were like, oh man,

589
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: I mean it was amazing. Yeah, but he was doing

590
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 3: all the Luther Van Draws mixes and we wanted that

591
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 3: Luther van Draws sound for the Change.

592
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Okay, Mike, were you did you see

593
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: the snare drum? He has Yogi's drum set from Never

594
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: Too Much. I'm trying to purchase it. Yeah he yeah,

595
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: he knocks him out. He also did Hollero's Private Eye

596
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: album and yeah, I'm trying to buy that the never

597
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: too much.

598
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: Matter of fact, I think searching.

599
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: I believe he said that everything that Luther's ever singing

600
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: one that was that was a yeah, that would make sense, Yeah,

601
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: trying to get it.

602
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: That would make sense, trying to get it. So he

603
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: knocked it out in three days. Yeah, three days, we said,

604
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: We said that three songs, three songs.

605
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: A day, and I think there was nine songs on

606
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: the album. And you were satisfied with what it. Mixes, Yeah,

607
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: the mixes were great. I thought they were great. I was,

608
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 3: I was. We were just shocked because we we didn't know.

609
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 3: And that's when we kind of learned the pace in

610
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: la versus the pace in New York. You know, it's

611
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 3: a whole different thing, and that that was one of

612
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: the ways we.

613
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: But can you trust it?

614
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: I mean, have you how many times do you have

615
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: to recall a mix as in.

616
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: In that day?

617
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: None we recalled it. None, No times that that was

618
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 3: the mix. We very rarely recalled mixes. I mean we

619
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 3: once we got it to where we liked it, we

620
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: liked it. We very rare recalled mixes. Okay, very rarely.

621
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 3: We would leave mistakes in there, and we would leave

622
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: you know, we'd get it to a certain point and

623
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 3: we just kind of feel like, you know, we'd always joke,

624
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: we go, okay, what five people aren't gonna buy the

625
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: record because of this thing that only we hear.

626
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: It's like does it feel good? And is it? Yeah,

627
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: it's it's good.

628
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 3: And back then, mixing was very collaborative because you know,

629
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 3: you had to have four guys with their fingers on

630
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: the board and they weren't automated.

631
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: No, not the way there.

632
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 3: Well some of them were, but the one we were

633
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: working on in New York was not automated. So we

634
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 3: literally did the mixes and and the one that we

635
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: uh even the ones that like we did at Creation

636
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: Audio in Minneapolis, so Alexander O'Neil and Charrell and Shane

637
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: well with the recording of Change, although we mixed in

638
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 3: New York, but those records, know, they was all done

639
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 3: people on faders and everybody man. You know, somebody would

640
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: be in charge of the mutes and somebody would be

641
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 3: in charge of whatever. So it was a performance and

642
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 3: it was just about getting the best performance. It wasn't

643
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: even about recalling the mix. It was just making a

644
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 3: great performance. And I missed that that that was actually fun.

645
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 3: I enjoyed that part of it.

646
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 6: Okay, well let's talk about your early forais into hip hop. Okay,

647
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 6: let's talk about Captain Times, yeah and the Iced Tea's Cold.

648
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

649
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: So those records were basically because we would hang out

650
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 3: at a studio in l A called Studio Masters, and

651
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: that was where Leon Silvers did a lot of his records.

652
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 3: And I remember there's this guy named Cletus Robinson and

653
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 3: he owned a record company called Saturn Records as the

654
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 3: exactly and this dude looks like lives like his name

655
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 3: sounds is how.

656
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: This dude and.

657
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: This dude had I don't know he had this record

658
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: and he just said, man, you know, the track ain't

659
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 3: happening on you know, we need a track for this

660
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 3: you know, record and stuff. And we were like, okay, cool,

661
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: and we just moved into the eight and the and

662
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 3: the lin drum and just got down and you know,

663
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,239
Speaker 3: once again, Bad Times is another perfect example of just

664
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 3: I just played that start to finish, the baseline, there's

665
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 3: nothing sequenced, and just played it from start to finish,

666
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 3: and we didn't hear the singing and all that stuff

667
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: and the rap, which nobody really used the rap everybody flipped.

668
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: It over to the right.

669
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,719
Speaker 3: But the girl's name was Kim Ball and she was

670
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 3: who was her story? She was signed to a group

671
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: that was signed to United Artists. Remember the group Enchantment. Yes, okay,

672
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 3: so she was in yeah, Gloria right. So she was

673
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 3: involved with somebody there, Mike maybe Michael Stokes, maybe his

674
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: girlfriend or or something. And uh, anyway, so they said

675
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: this girl kim Ball is gonna sing. We said, okay, great,

676
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 3: and we didn't hear it until it was actually done.

677
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 3: All we did was go in and put the little

678
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 3: track together for it, and we loved it. We were like,

679
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: oh man, this is funky. And we were trying to

680
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 3: make I was trying to make a D Trained record,

681
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: quite honestly, because because Hubert Eves was from Minnesota and.

682
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: I did not know, well what, yeah.

683
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 4: It makes sense now that you say it, but I

684
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 4: hear it from Chicago, but.

685
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's amazing.

686
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 3: Well, we knew Hi from Minneapolis because I remember we

687
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: got a D Train record. I have no idea to

688
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 3: this day where it showed up, but it was on

689
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: our time tour bus and I remember seeing the record

690
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 3: and it said D Train and we all looked at

691
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 3: it and it was a white label and we were like,

692
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,959
Speaker 3: D Train, What the heck is D Train? And then

693
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: we started hearing the record and I said, oh, this

694
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 3: is the record we got And I looked at it

695
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 3: and it was Hubert Eves and I said, oh, this

696
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 3: is Hubert E's record. And we just knew him from Minneapolis.

697
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 3: We were like, oh, there's Minneapolis boys. So we were

698
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 3: always you know, like happy and proud of the stuff

699
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: he did. So yeah, so I don't know, man, but yeah,

700
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: that was that. And and the same thing with the

701
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: Coldest Rap and that we didn't know we did the track.

702
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 3: It was one of those things where you know, we

703
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: just kind of went in and did it. I think

704
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 3: we got five hundred bucks for it or something.

705
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: And that was and that was didn't know they were

706
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: going to be a rap record. We didn't know what

707
00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: they were going to be.

708
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 3: It was just going to be it's gonna be put

709
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 3: put a track together, and you know, it is what

710
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 3: it is. I think we knew, yes, I actually I

711
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: do think we knew they were gonna be rap records,

712
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 3: but we didn't know, you know, Iced Tea. We knew

713
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 3: the names sort of Captain Rap. I knew because he

714
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 3: had done some other stuff. I think I used to

715
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: play one of his records even before that, if I'm

716
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 3: not mistaken. So I ran into him by the way

717
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 3: at the New Edition Star ceremony. He came up to

718
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 3: me and he said we worked together before, and I

719
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 3: said we did. He said, yeah, he said on that

720
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: on that Bad Times, I was the rapper on that.

721
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 3: I said, oh, that is nice to meet you.

722
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: It's very funny man.

723
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, but no, that that was kind of our

724
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: first our first for ran into hip hop, and I

725
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 3: had it as interesting.

726
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 2: I remember I was coming from.

727
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 3: American Music Awards or something, and uh it was when

728
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: Kid Rock was really jumping off huge and I remember

729
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 3: we were walking into a door at the same time

730
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 3: and Kit and uh, he runs into me. Kid Rock

731
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 3: runs into me and he said, oh, Man, sorry, sorry man.

732
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 3: I said no, no, I'm sorry, man, after you?

733
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 2: After you?

734
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 3: And he said, hey, man, Jimmy Jam And I said, hey.

735
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 2: What's up man? He goes, I can't stand he said.

736
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: I said, man, you know that song? He said, Man,

737
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 3: I'm from Detroit know all of y'all shit. I said, okay, cool,

738
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 3: you know. So it was very cool man, But that

739
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 3: record to this day, Man, we were just in Japan

740
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: and Korea and they were.

741
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 6: Talking about that record over there. Where did those two

742
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 6: records come in the timeline? Like, were those before we were?

743
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're probably before SOSH, Yeah, before before so OS

744
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 3: because it's probably we were still working like real to

745
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 3: real first climax stuff, dynasty stuff. So this is more

746
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 3: of an eighty two type of thing, and SOS was.

747
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 2: More of a machine bedtime.

748
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a distorted Oh you know, No, it wasn't

749
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 3: a line drum. What the heck was that thing? That's

750
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: a great question question. I can't remember what the heck

751
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 3: it was. It was something so distorted and wrong.

752
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: No, it's right, right, right, I.

753
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: Take it through that record, But you're trying to figure

754
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: out how you trying to figure out what drummer scene

755
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: you used for that?

756
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

757
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 3: What was that thing? It was whatever was laying around

758
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: that day at the studio. It wasn't anything that we brought.

759
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 3: It was whatever was laying around.

760
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I brought it. Now can I jump in nineteen

761
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,959
Speaker 2: eighty six? Thank you? It's a big Jim.

762
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: So, how's the idea even come up that Janet Jackson

763
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: wants to work with you guys.

764
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: Okay, So the story there is there was Okay, so

765
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: John mc lane, who was a R guy at A

766
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 3: M Records, he had called us to work on Howard

767
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 3: Johnson and uh yep, so which so fun is one

768
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 3: of the best records of all time to me. I mean,

769
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 3: this wasn't quite an amazing record, but anyway, so this

770
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: was like the follow up album and they he called

771
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 3: us and said, you want to do some stuff on

772
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 3: our Johns and we said, yeah, yeah, that'd be cool.

773
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 3: So anyway, we did a couple of things on him.

774
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: It didn't jump off big or anything, but it was

775
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 3: great working with him.

776
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 2: Very talented dude.

777
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: And I remember we were really into Steve Arrington at

778
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 3: that point, and so we did this record called n Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.

779
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: It worked.

780
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: So anyway, so then the next thing he asked us

781
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 3: did we want to do? He said, Hey, the girl

782
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 3: an Atlantic star is going to make a solo album.

783
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 3: Do you want to work ban? Do you want to

784
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 3: work with her? And I said, oh, yeah, we love

785
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 3: Sharon Bryant. Yeah that was cool. So we you know,

786
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 3: we were like, okay, we're excited, we know, we're ready

787
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 3: to go. So then we get a phone call and

788
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 3: he goes and we started working on tracks for her

789
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 3: and stuff. So and he got a phone call and

790
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 3: he just said, hey, you know, I don't know how

791
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: to say this, but you know, she doesn't really want

792
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 3: to work with y'all. Got yeah, she's got another producer.

793
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: She wants to work with her whatever. I guess her

794
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: boyfriend or whoever was at the time, right, So we

795
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 3: were like, so we were like, okay, cool, you know,

796
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 3: that's that's cool whatever, And he said, man, he's not embarrassed, man,

797
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 3: he said. So he said, what is it? Is there

798
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 3: something else on it? You know that you would like

799
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 3: to work on for us, you know whatever? And we said, well,

800
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 3: send a roster. So they sent a roster and me

801
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: and Terry looked at the roster and we're going down

802
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 3: the names, and then Janet Jackson. We both stopped on

803
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 3: Jana Jackson and looked at each other and said Janet Jackson.

804
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 3: So we called John and we said John, we want

805
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: to do Janet. And he says, oh, okay, yeah, that's cool.

806
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 3: How many songs you want to do?

807
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: Three? Four songs? I said, no, we want to do

808
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 2: the whole album. You do. Yeah, was that even option

809
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 2: back then?

810
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 1: Because as far as I know, we're ill man esque

811
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: productions a thing on R and B Records.

812
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: Back then there were different producers.

813
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 5: I mean the first two albums.

814
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: Okay, you're right, you're right, you're right.

815
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 6: Speaking of uh, did you guys, did you guys choose

816
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 6: Janet because of Jesse working with her on the previous Jesse.

817
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 3: Jesse had yes, because what happened was we actually went

818
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 3: we're in a session with her on the first album

819
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 3: that Renee and Angela did half of it and I

820
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 3: think Leon Silvers at the other half, and we were

821
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 3: actually in the session with her and actually, don't give

822
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: up this good thing. Yeah, don't give up this good thing.

823
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: And the one I loved was come come give your

824
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 3: love to me. Yeah, that was the one I loved.

825
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 3: And so we knew she was cool. She was big

826
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 3: fans of the time. She sat front row and we

827
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: played Long Beach when we couldn't play the Forum and

828
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 3: played Long but she sat front row with her mom

829
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 3: and she came back after and met us and stuff.

830
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 3: She was so sweet and all that. So anyway, so

831
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 3: we knew already, we felt like we already kind of

832
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 3: had a little bit of a relationship with there. But

833
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 3: when Jesse did Fast Girls and that, we just thought, wow, Okay,

834
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 3: that's more. She's got like a little attitude to her

835
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: because we knew young she had an attitude because when

836
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 3: she was doing the whole May West thing and doing

837
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: the variety show stuff, she always had such a personality

838
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 3: and sassy, right, So we were like, that's what needs

839
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 3: to be happening with her to me, is that kind

840
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 3: of thing. So that's what me and Terry were both

841
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 3: thinking that same thing. So that was kind of the idea.

842
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 3: So we said, Okay, cool, that's that's what we're gonna do.

843
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: That's what we'll do.

844
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 2: And so we had a meeting and I remember at

845
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: the meeting.

846
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 3: It was her dad and her and John and I

847
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 3: remember they played Heat of Heat by Patty Austin, which

848
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 3: was the current record.

849
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 2: We had just done. And she because she has such

850
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 2: the craziest as you I wouldn't know.

851
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 3: How to go that level, you know what, though she

852
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 3: it was funny. We didn't know her well enough to

853
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 3: know her sense of humor.

854
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, she did.

855
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 3: She did those three songs in like a day. Oh

856
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: my god. We were sitting there. She's because we booked

857
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 3: three days. We figured we'll do a song a day,

858
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 3: and she tore through whatever. The first song we did,

859
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 3: she tore through it the leads in the background so fast,

860
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 3: and me and Terry are sitting there looking at each other, going,

861
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: is there something else to do?

862
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 2: Patty? You want to do the next song? Yeah, let's

863
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: do it. Okay cool?

864
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 3: And then we did it, and then we were like, uh, okay,

865
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 3: well we'll do the next one to marrow.

866
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 2: I guess it's.

867
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 3: Because we read unbelievable. I never heard somebody sing that fast.

868
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 3: But so we didn't really get to know her, like,

869
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 3: she had a great personality, she was very nice. We

870
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 3: were just too young, nervous doing something for Quincy Jones.

871
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 3: Oh my god, we're trying to do string arrangements and

872
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: we're trying to like, oh, we got to impress Quincy

873
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 3: because he trusting us with this even at this point,

874
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yes that's Quincy Jones.

875
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: Man. Come on, But.

876
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: I mean, at what point we all like we jam? Yeah,

877
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: like one point, were you like, all right, kiss my

878
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: ass princes?

879
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: Uh? Control? No?

880
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 3: Never, really, I don't I don't think we I don't

881
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 3: think we've ever felt that way, because.

882
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: To me, were you in the audience the night that

883
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: he was telling you guys about I want to hear

884
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: this on your records?

885
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I never took it as a real insult.

886
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: I just like, Okay, he's giving you guys props, like,

887
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 1: what did you.

888
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 3: I took it as an insult because, yeah, because he

889
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 3: he came by. He came by. I remember he drove

890
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 3: by my house right after the Control album came out,

891
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 3: and uh, he like threw the CD out the window

892
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 3: or did something you yeah.

893
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 2: You yeah, legendary.

894
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was. It was weird and I remember

895
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 3: thinking that because I used to like it. Right well,

896
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 3: I realized my mom told me. My mom was the

897
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 3: one that would always say, you know, when people do that,

898
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 3: it means that they're really they're jealous of you for something.

899
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 3: And I'm going because I'm always thinking to myself, how

900
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 3: the hell is Prince jealous of me? I said that

901
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 3: dude is the most talented dude ever in the history

902
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 3: of people period. How is he jealous of me? I

903
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 3: can't even I'm nowhere near him.

904
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: Because you're you're inside the bubble and couldn't be outside

905
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: to see it. But yeah, well that literally took over

906
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: black music.

907
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: No.

908
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: I get, I get the result of what it was,

909
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 3: but I never I never felt like I just felt

910
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 3: like we did our job, like we like we set

911
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 3: out to do, Like what the Control album, our whole

912
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: thing was. And I think I've been quoted on this

913
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 3: a few times. In our neighborhood that we lived in

914
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 3: at the time, there was in l because we were

915
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: we were we had a still had a place in

916
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 3: LA and we would drive up the street and you'd

917
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 3: hear music blasting out of everybody's homes, right, and we

918
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 3: just wanted to be that record that everybody was blasting

919
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 3: out their home, and so it had to be funky,

920
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 3: it had to be aggressive, it had to be loud.

921
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 3: There was already, I mean, females weren't really making those

922
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 3: kinds of records. Those records were all rap records or whatever.

923
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 3: And we wanted to make that kind of record because

924
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 3: we felt she had the attitude to pull it off.

925
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 3: And so that was the whole thing.

926
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 2: And so.

927
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 3: One of the best days of my life was actually

928
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 3: when the album came out, and I remember driving up

929
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 3: that same street and hearing that record blasting out of

930
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 3: everybody's house, and at that point, forget whether where we're

931
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: at the charts or where we're at at sales. I

932
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 3: felt like we did what we accomplished. I mean, we

933
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 3: accomplished what we set out to do, and I hadn't

934
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 3: really felt that way honestly as a producer. I never

935
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 3: felt like we The first record we did that actually

936
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 3: turned out in real life the way we heard it

937
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 3: in our heads was The Finest by the s O

938
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 3: s Oh Wow.

939
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 2: That record.

940
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 3: We heard it in our heads because we said we

941
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 3: got to switch up from the eight oh eight thing

942
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 3: we did browed love on that album, right, because they

943
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 3: said because the record company is like, well, you got

944
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 3: to have another one that sounds like and we said, okay, fine,

945
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 3: we do, We'll do that. But we got yeah, but

946
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 3: asked for like a yes, yes they did.

947
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 2: They did, Yes they did. They said you got yeah,

948
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: No they did.

949
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 3: It was and and so we were like, okay, yeah,

950
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 3: we'll do that, but that's not what we really hear

951
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 3: for them. And when we did The Finest, it was

952
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 3: like in our heads we were like, this is the

953
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 3: cut for them, like good boom boom, boom boom.

954
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: It was about the space of that song. My favorite

955
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 2: part of that song is just the fact that it's

956
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 2: right stops right.

957
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 5: Well, that's the finest.

958
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's something about see because that song sophisticated.

959
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 3: I always thought the s O S band was really

960
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 3: sophisticated because even from taking your time to do it right,

961
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 3: you're not hearing songs that have Glockenspiel in it, you

962
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. So that was the thing. But

963
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 3: that record actually came out the way we thought it would.

964
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 3: We wanted it to come out.

965
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: What is it about?

966
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: I think this is one of the first questions I

967
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: asked you on Twitter when I realized that that was

968
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: actually you.

969
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 3: Hey, I finally got verified by the way, Yeah, I

970
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 3: saw you. We did that really Yeah, Okay, okay, damn funk.

971
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: Uh What is it about E flat? I know you said, like,

972
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the song calls for in my head,

973
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: that's what I make it.

974
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 2: But I mean a lot of your is there by this.

975
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: Do you feel that that that E flat minor is

976
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: like the Black the Black Black Key, like that experience? No,

977
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: I mean some of your your your best funk songs.

978
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: For what have you done for me lately to the

979
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: finest two. You know a lot of your grittier, funkier

980
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: songs are done in that key, which I mean that

981
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: it allows you to just hit all the black keys

982
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: and not it's never a wrong.

983
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: Key, that's right. But what what D minor was for

984
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: James Brown?

985
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: Almost feel like E flat Well that I used to

986
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: identify as Stevie Wonder's key, but now that's the jam

987
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: and Lewis key to me, Like, is it something about

988
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:48,919
Speaker 1: or is it just the singers you pick?

989
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 2: Their range is strictly in that that particular or am

990
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 2: I overthinking it problem? Let's go with that. I dont no,

991
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: you're not over You're not overthinking it.

992
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 3: But the simple, the simple answer is because it's a

993
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 3: funky ass key. It's it's it's funky because E traditionally

994
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 3: was always the lowest note on a bass, on a

995
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 3: traditional bass, if you go one half step lower, it's

996
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 3: even funkier because it's all about just the lowness of it,

997
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 3: and it was something that a key, as a keyboard player,

998
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 3: see bass player couldn't do that. They could tune down,

999
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 3: I guess if they wanted to, but no, the bass

1000
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 3: player couldn't go to E flat. But a keyboard player

1001
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 3: could so because most of our stuff was that's right.

1002
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: All your E flat joints are a keyboard. They're all

1003
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 2: key Wow, Okay, that makes sense. I don't know.

1004
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: I I have a personal disdain for for week E

1005
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 1: minor songs like you know, because basically it's like, okay,

1006
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: thank you for letting me be myself.

1007
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 2: I'm taking rhythmation out of this. I'm not trying to insult.

1008
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that that's such a mountain to climb.

1009
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: I feel like everybody that does anything in an E

1010
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: minors like that, they're they're they're the mountain Fiji, the

1011
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: mounta Fiji to them is thank you for letting me

1012
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: be myself. Okay, I'm in here from get the Funk

1013
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: out my Face to all those songs yes in that key, yes,

1014
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: which I mean there's some cool ones like maybe Glide

1015
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: by Pleasure or that sort of thing, but I don't know.

1016
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: I'm not a fan of funk bands that.

1017
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: That do songs in that key. Right, And I know

1018
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be in that key because it's easy

1019
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: to play.

1020
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 3: It's the lowest, but it's also the lowest. It's the lowest,

1021
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 3: so it's just it kind of turns out to be

1022
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: the funkiest key. But so the idea of going a

1023
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 3: half step lower was always just something about it fakes

1024
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 3: an E flat and I think fakes right. Yeah, And

1025
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 3: I think Encore is in e flat too.

1026
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, they are like a lot of your dance

1027
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: classics are in the key, which I just think it's

1028
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: a funky key.

1029
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 6: It is before we get back to Janet, and this

1030
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 6: is going to circle back around, can we talk about

1031
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 6: the Secret?

1032
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: Sure?

1033
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 6: What was the secret? And where did all those songs

1034
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 6: end up that we're going to be on that project?

1035
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 2: Hah okay?

1036
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,479
Speaker 3: So when we so when we were booted from the time,

1037
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 3: the thing that people always ask were I was when

1038
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 3: are you guys going to put another band together? And

1039
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 3: our answer always was never, because we've already played with

1040
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 3: the best band we could ever play with, So we're

1041
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 3: never going to put a band together. However, we will

1042
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 3: do a project and it'll be me and Terry and

1043
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: we'll probably add Our fantasy at that time was to

1044
00:50:54,640 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 3: add a guitar player girl, and we were going to

1045
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 3: be called The Secret, and we did. We started recording

1046
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 3: tracks for what we thought was going to be a

1047
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 3: secret album, probably around eighty four, eighty five, something like that.

1048
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 3: Some of those tracks have seen the light of day.

1049
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 3: What Have You Done for Me Lately was a secret track. Whoa,

1050
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 3: there's another song on that same album called You.

1051
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: Could Be Mine. Yeah, that was a secret track.

1052
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 3: And as a matter of fact, I'll tell you, I'll

1053
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 3: tell you that what have You Done for Me Lately?

1054
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 3: In our story. So, we had done the album. The

1055
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 3: album was totally done. We sent it in. John McClain

1056
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 3: listened to it and as all in our people always

1057
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 3: say I just need one more, and I'm like, going, John,

1058
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 3: you got control, you got nasty, you got what I

1059
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 3: think of you. I mean, you got your singles. Man,

1060
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 3: what do you need? I just need there's something more.

1061
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 3: I need one more. So anyway, you planned on a

1062
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 3: four four eight song? Yeah, yeah, we were done. We

1063
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 3: thought we were good.

1064
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: In your mind? What was the fourth song on sad Ay?

1065
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 3: That I don't know because we didn't know because we

1066
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 3: hadn't at that point, we hadn't sequenced it. It was

1067
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 3: not sequenced. It was just that we just felt we

1068
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 3: were done. We got enough, songs were good.

1069
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 6: Okay, So did you record any extra or were those

1070
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 6: nine songs it.

1071
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 3: We did record actually extra we recorded a song. Actually

1072
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 3: there was a guy named Hammy Uh that played with Yeah,

1073
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 3: it was with Real to Reel. He played with Real

1074
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 3: to Reel and he actually did a song called the

1075
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 3: Hungry for Your Love that we recorded with Janet.

1076
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 2: It's really good.

1077
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 3: It's it's very come give your love to me. It's

1078
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 3: kind of been that vain because we said, can we

1079
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 3: get a song that has that kind of you know,

1080
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 3: that kind of new wave pop type of thing.

1081
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly didn't get replaced by he doesn't even know

1082
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 1: my life.

1083
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 2: No, he doesn't even know I'm alive. Can I askfore

1084
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 2: you mentioned? Yeah? Can I guess? Was that the first

1085
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: song you guys worked on? Yes, fucking I'm a genius,

1086
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: Gus okay, thing you have a radio sh.

1087
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 4: Shut up, Steve, Okay, that's all I wanted to know,

1088
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 4: steveson ship for three hours?

1089
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: How do you tell that was the first one?

1090
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 4: Like it just sounds so different from it just felt like,

1091
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 4: but the thing is still filling each other out, Like

1092
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 4: he doesn't even know I'm alive is probably the only

1093
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 4: thing that's really close to like Bookie. Oh okay, Like

1094
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 4: that felt like it could be released in eighty three.

1095
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: Like it could have been on one of the first

1096
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 2: two hours.

1097
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 1: I almost didn't believe you guys did it. And all

1098
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: right to slight confession. When I was working at music

1099
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: Land at sam Goodies in high school, this cat named Spencer, Yeah,

1100
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: have me believe that he was the Spencer Bernard that song?

1101
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 2: My god, that's great. Yeah, but you just having to

1102
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 2: work with me. Yeah, I was gullible in high school.

1103
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: Okay, but yeah, it it fit for a reason. It's

1104
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: a like he doesn't even know why I'm alive was

1105
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 1: I felt that was the blackest record as far as

1106
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: the two step barbecue boogie, like it felt like on

1107
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: the beat by the bb Q ban or that sort

1108
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: of thing, whereas even though the other songs were relentlessly funky, Yeah,

1109
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: it was class and polished, and I felt that you

1110
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: guys are really planting your flag in Minneapolis and saying

1111
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:53,720
Speaker 1: now we're the standard.

1112
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's a great bridge between you know, the

1113
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 6: songs and then the two songs and end the record too.

1114
00:54:59,680 --> 00:54:59,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1115
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 3: Well okay, so yeah, so you're absolutely right. It was

1116
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 3: the first song we did, and what and how it

1117
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 3: happened was when we knew we were going to record

1118
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 3: Janet Spencer, Bernard uh and Lisa Keith were married.

1119
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: Ah and uh.

1120
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 3: So Spencer did production and writing and stuff for us.

1121
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 3: He had his own band called King's English that never

1122
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 3: ever saw the light of day, but was great, very

1123
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 3: very Duran, Duranish type type of stuff.

1124
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: They were doing.

1125
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 3: White dudes is white, white, Spencer's white.

1126
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 2: That's yeah. Wait, you completely her.

1127
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: Super Yes you you finally I didn't know that.

1128
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 3: Yeah you should. Actually, her solo album is very good.

1129
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 3: It's very good. She's an amazing singer and.

1130
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 2: The first time. No, I'm just happy I know she is.

1131
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 2: And she sounds so black when she sings. That's hell yeah,

1132
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: because Janet is singing backgrounds on that, right.

1133
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 3: Yea, Lisa they're singing, Yeah, that's Lisa's lead. Yeah, they're

1134
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 3: singing together on the background.

1135
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 2: Damn thought Lisa was like.

1136
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 3: So Lisa was like our backgrounds our background, secret weapon.

1137
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 3: Like she was on a ton of records, if you

1138
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 3: remember the criticized yes.

1139
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah and yeah she's white.

1140
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, like Bobby call well.

1141
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 3: Yeah records. Why should I cry known to him? That's

1142
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 3: her on that And uh, I'm trying to think there's

1143
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 3: another one that she's pretty really prominent on too. Uh

1144
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 3: she's I'm blanking now, but no, she she was like

1145
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:49,720
Speaker 3: the secret weapon.

1146
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 2: She was used to that heroin. Was that heroine Pillow

1147
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,919
Speaker 2: as well on her album was on that one. Yes,

1148
00:56:55,160 --> 00:57:01,879
Speaker 2: yeah Pillow, yep record, yep, Jesus Christ. Okay, so thank

1149
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 2: you very much.

1150
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 5: We only made eighty six.

1151
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so so he doesn't know him alive. Just to

1152
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,439
Speaker 3: just wrap it up. Yes, So we said to them,

1153
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 3: we're gonna be doing Janna Jackson and if you guys

1154
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 3: got a song, do it. So they wrote it, she

1155
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 3: demoed it, and for us it was it became the

1156
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 3: song that when Janet came to town and we you know,

1157
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 3: the story is that we didn't do anything in the

1158
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,439
Speaker 3: studio for like four or five days. It's absolutely true.

1159
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 2: She came, hung out, got to know her, talked, so

1160
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 2: that's important. Yes, yeah, research research, that was to dinner tonight.

1161
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 2: That was.

1162
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 3: No, that was that was that was the key to

1163
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 3: that and and and and so so truly she came.

1164
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 3: I mean, we went to movies, we went we hung

1165
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 3: out at the lakes because the lakes and Minnesota are

1166
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 3: amazing and in summer time and this was like June,

1167
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 3: and we just kind of hung on and then after

1168
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 3: about three or four days, she said, when are we

1169
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 3: going to start working? Yeah, and we said, uh, well,

1170
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 3: we've already been working and we showed her the lyrics

1171
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 3: to Control Wow, and she said, oh wait, this is

1172
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 3: what we've been talking about, because she told us a

1173
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 3: whole story about leaving home and she's going to get

1174
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 3: her own place and this whole thing. And we just

1175
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 3: worked making mental notes and then Terry would go home

1176
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 3: and like jot notes down and stuff, and we started like, okay,

1177
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 3: let's figure this out. And so when once we said

1178
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 3: that to her and she says, well, wait, so the

1179
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 3: album's going to be like whatever we're thinking about, and

1180
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 3: like whatever, I think that's what the album's going to be.

1181
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 3: And it's like yeah, it was like a light bulb

1182
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 3: win in her head. She was like, Okay, well I

1183
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 3: want to talk about this and I want to do this,

1184
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 3: I want to do I mean, it's like it was

1185
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 3: like because think about her albums before and we're all

1186
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 3: Leon did a bunch of songs going and sing them,

1187
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 3: you know, Jesse did some songs going and singing.

1188
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 2: Jojio Moroder did some or people, a lot of whoever

1189
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 2: was going and sing them. I mean, that was it.

1190
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 3: We were actually asking her input and she and it

1191
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 3: was at a point where she really had something to

1192
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 3: say and she didn't think of herself as a songwriter

1193
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 3: and technically she probably wasn't technically a songwriter. But the

1194
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 3: ideas and what we talked about were what became the records.

1195
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: I mean the credit on the record.

1196
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, because the records wouldn't exist without her. We

1197
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 3: wouldn't write, we wouldn't write control without her.

1198
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: So what point are you guys actually in a room

1199
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: together as U three and writing songs.

1200
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 2: On that album? Not at all?

1201
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 3: Okay, No, No, that album was sitting in a room

1202
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 3: like this, telling stories and like you would say something

1203
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:38,479
Speaker 3: and we go.

1204
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 2: That's cool, and we write it down.

1205
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 3: And then our wordsmith's sometimes who's oh tell Terry's Terry's

1206
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 3: Terry's I call him lyric masters.

1207
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 5: See the rhyming dictionary up there.

1208
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're right.

1209
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 7: Okay, So did Nasty come from like a funny story,

1210
00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 7: because I'm trying to figure out these are okay.

1211
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 2: Yes, nasty.

1212
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 3: Nasty came from one of the first days we were

1213
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 3: hanging around so there were there was.

1214
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: A club James Debart's story.

1215
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 3: There there was a there was a club downtown Minneapolis.

1216
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 3: I can't remember what it was called. And we were

1217
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 3: all hanging out and we were actually we weren't even

1218
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 3: in the club. We were just kind of it was

1219
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 3: kind of in a building, uh that was like an

1220
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 3: office building, so that you could just hang in the lobby.

1221
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 3: You never had to really go in the club. You

1222
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 3: could just hang out, right, So we were all just

1223
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 3: kind of hanging out, and these guys came up and

1224
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 3: started talking to Janet, and uh, they were kind of

1225
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 3: saying some kind of interesting things to her. Right, So

1226
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 3: we're kind of watching. We're you know, we're just kind

1227
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 3: of watching. We're just not doing anything right, and she

1228
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 3: keeps looking over at us, like would come over and

1229
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 3: help me look, and we just kind of stand there

1230
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 3: and we're just kind of looking at her. And then

1231
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 3: people start saying to us, I think those guys are

1232
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 3: bothering her, Why don't you you're gonna go over and

1233
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 3: say something.

1234
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 2: We're like, well, we ain't gonna let nothing that we

1235
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:58,479
Speaker 2: got an eye on it. We're all good.

1236
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 3: So after ten minutes or so, she comes over to us,

1237
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 3: and she goes and she's funny because you got to

1238
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 3: remember it. So she's like eight, I think, just to

1239
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 3: turn eighteen. At that time, it was still very sheltered,

1240
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 3: very like this little girl. And she said, did you

1241
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 3: see what those guys were doing? And we were like, well,

1242
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 3: they were talking to you, Oh my.

1243
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 2: God, but the things they were saying, and oh my god,

1244
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 2: why didn't you come over and help me?

1245
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 3: And Terry said, well, obviously you didn't need any help.

1246
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 3: You're not standing right here right now. And she said,

1247
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I guess that's right. So those kind of

1248
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 3: moments needed to happen for her to get to that.

1249
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 3: But she said, I don't like nasty boys. I don't

1250
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 3: like nasty something something, and Terry's like, okay.

1251
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:46,919
Speaker 2: And that's it. I mean. So that was the way.

1252
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 3: So the hanging out part where we weren't working, we

1253
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 3: said to her, you know, we're already working.

1254
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,919
Speaker 2: So we need a life experience for you to sing,

1255
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 2: to sing about.

1256
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 3: It exactly, because that's what that was. What's gonna make

1257
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 3: the album believable, It's gonna her yeah, And and that

1258
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 3: was the whole thing. So he doesn't know I'm alive,

1259
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 3: was basically because it was already done. When we went

1260
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 3: into the studio, we said, okay, we got a song free,

1261
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 3: and we just went in and sang it. It was

1262
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 3: already demoed, it was already done, and that gave us

1263
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 3: our insight on what note she could hit, what couldn't

1264
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 3: she hit, just all kinds of things, the kind of

1265
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 3: right kind of mic to use on her. It was

1266
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 3: almost like the test ground for her, but also a

1267
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 3: song that we all liked. So from that point then

1268
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 3: everything else kind of jumped off from that.

1269
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 4: How did you, Oh, I was gonna say my question

1270
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 4: for you about Janet her background vocals. You talked about

1271
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 4: how you were a big fan of America and all

1272
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 4: that stuff. To me, that was always her superpower, more

1273
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 4: so than even the dancing and all of that. Like,

1274
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 4: her background vocals was always amazing, Right, So did you

1275
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 4: guys did you arrange it? Was it just by ear

1276
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 4: or as a keyboard player? Did you like actually play

1277
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 4: it out and say, okay, this is your note, Janet?

1278
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 3: That would with Janet I would always do. I would

1279
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 3: always have her sing the notes in the chord, which

1280
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 3: isn't the normal way to stack vocals because what happens.

1281
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 3: Of course, when you're playing amount of keyboard, you have

1282
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 3: notes that are dissonant to each other where they're right

1283
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 3: next to.

1284
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 2: It, and it always singers are they can't hear that.

1285
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 3: Most of the time. It throws them off to hear that.

1286
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 3: And so but we worked up over time, we worked

1287
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 3: up a thing where she would just trust me, like

1288
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 3: I'd give her a note.

1289
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 2: And it would totally sound so wrong.

1290
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 6: But.

1291
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: Without using great example, A great example, that's a great example.

1292
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,919
Speaker 2: Loves you as well, yeah, oh Jesus Christ.

1293
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, So so that was the thing. But she would

1294
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 3: she would just do it, and I got a certain

1295
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 3: point she would quit going. She wouldn't even say that

1296
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 3: doesn't sound right. I would just go trust me, and

1297
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 3: she goes, oh I trust you, I know, and I'd

1298
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 3: be okay. And she also had the stamina where she

1299
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 3: would stay in there for hours and hours and hours,

1300
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 3: and we'd stack every note at least four times.

1301
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 2: So if it was a you know, there were times

1302
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 2: that note at least yeah. Wait, there's no pro tools though,

1303
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 2: well okay, so.

1304
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 3: No, because we didn't start with forty we only had

1305
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 3: twenty four. So what we would do is you would

1306
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 3: make we would take the vocals, but everything would always

1307
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 3: get bounced down on the spot. So we would and

1308
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 3: it was it was always strategic, like you you could,

1309
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 3: you could have we'd make a work we'd make a

1310
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 3: work tape. Remember we're not going off of we're not

1311
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 3: using Simpty, all right, so we so you can, So

1312
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 3: you could do that.

1313
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 2: You could do the track.

1314
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 3: And let's say you used I don't know, nineteen tracks

1315
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 3: or whatever. You could take those two tracks, bounce them

1316
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 3: to two, bounce them to two tracks, right, put them

1317
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 3: on to a half inch tape or whatever. Play the

1318
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 3: half inch tape back to the twenty four track, and

1319
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 3: now you have two tracks. Now that leaves you with

1320
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 3: twenty two tracks to work with technically twenty one because

1321
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 3: you couldn't go on the Simpty track and you weren't

1322
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 3: supposed to go to the track next to the Sempty

1323
01:04:58,440 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 3: twenty three.

1324
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 2: But we always he still did that rule.

1325
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, we broke that rule. So anyway, so that would

1326
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 3: give us a thing. So if we did a harmony,

1327
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 3: so let's say we did sixteen tracks of a four

1328
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 3: part harmony, four times sixteen tracks, we'd take that harmony,

1329
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 3: bounced it too, two tracks. So now it would just

1330
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 3: be a stereo mix. We couldn't change it, and we

1331
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 3: would always trust that it was good, that it was

1332
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 3: okay yea. And so it was great though, because you

1333
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 3: couldn't go back and do stuff, and normally the decision

1334
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 3: you made on the spot was always the best decision.

1335
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 3: It wasn't about going back and tweaking it and oh

1336
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 3: we should have done it.

1337
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 2: You know, it has a song bit you in the

1338
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 2: ass during the mix down, like a damn like uh.

1339
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 3: No, actually not not really. We had we had an

1340
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 3: engineer back in the day. We had an engine named

1341
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 3: Tavey Mote back when we were doing a song called

1342
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 3: Heartbreaker with Climax, which I'm not even sure of that

1343
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 3: song actually, yeah, I did come out.

1344
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 2: I think it did, but.

1345
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 3: It was on one of those twenty four hour sessions.

1346
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 3: And he decided that he could spot RaSE something on

1347
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 3: the tape on the master tape of a vocal thing,

1348
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 3: and we were like, no, it's okay, Tobby, we can

1349
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 3: just mute it on the board.

1350
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 2: No, no, I can do it. I can do it.

1351
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 3: And so normally on tape what you do is you

1352
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 3: put the tape into the position and then you'd hit record.

1353
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 3: But you wouldn't go play the tape, you just hit

1354
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 3: record and just get rid of that one little spot.

1355
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 3: He said, no, I can do it on the fly.

1356
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 3: So it's like okay, And the word was the word.

1357
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 2: Was fresh, let me get this ready. So the lyric.

1358
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 3: Was a heartbreaker, so fresh right, and then there was

1359
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 3: like a fresh click, so he said, I get rid

1360
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 3: of it. So he goes, we do it a heartbreaker,

1361
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 3: so fresh click. I missed it. It's okay, man, we

1362
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 3: can just mute it. No, no, I got it a heartbreaker

1363
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 3: so fresh click.

1364
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 2: Ah, man, I missed it again.

1365
01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 3: Now it's okay, Tobby, really now I got it this

1366
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 3: time our break, So.

1367
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 2: I think I think I got it, and we're like, yeah,

1368
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 2: you got it half of words.

1369
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 3: And it made us change the song so that instead

1370
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 3: of instead of it's saying that, it would say it

1371
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 3: every other time. Well, so we would just go U,

1372
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 3: I'm so good, I'm such a mess, and then we'd

1373
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 3: leave it blank. So I mean, so no. But but

1374
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 3: you know that was a crazy mistake and that never

1375
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 3: happened again, and we never worked with Taby again.

1376
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, wait, you just said something though, So

1377
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 1: if you really didn't believe in Sempty and weren't lining

1378
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: up stuff. Then how did those cool summer mixes turn

1379
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: out so perfect?

1380
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 2: Because we would wild sync.

1381
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 3: I'm a DJ, I can hate you right now, man,

1382
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 3: So so it was Clive the mix. Yeah, the cool

1383
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 3: summer mixes were fun, so hell yeah, we were fun. Yeah,

1384
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 3: so we would. So we would just take I usually

1385
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 3: would take like the eight o eight or something, and

1386
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 3: I would just sink it like so, I would just

1387
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 3: have the eight o eight on a track or two

1388
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 3: tracks or whatever. I'd play the original tape right and

1389
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 3: then I'd uh, and then I turned the drum machine

1390
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,799
Speaker 3: on at the same time. I'd kind of adjust the speed.

1391
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 3: When it locked up, i'd hit record. When it drilled,

1392
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 3: i'd stop and then we'd started up again, and when

1393
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 3: it hit and then I'd go in.

1394
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 2: So it just it just was a process. We had it.

1395
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 2: We had it down a DJ. Yeah, I was I

1396
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 2: can't do any of that stuff anymore, but but no,

1397
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 2: I can match.

1398
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 3: I can match. I can match that kind of stuff.

1399
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 3: And then we go back and then and then you know,

1400
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 3: just re record the keyboards and stuff on that. I'll

1401
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 3: tell you an interesting uh, I'm sorry, every story veers

1402
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 3: off the cool summer mixes is the reason we ended

1403
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:00,799
Speaker 3: up working with George Michael.

1404
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:03,480
Speaker 2: So when we did Monkey.

1405
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 3: Monkey, if you remember, he had Monkey on the album,

1406
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 3: the record right right, and he called us and he said, hey,

1407
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,679
Speaker 3: I want you guys to do a remix of Monkey

1408
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 3: and we said, okay, cool, and we said, well, what

1409
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:17,639
Speaker 3: do you want?

1410
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 2: What are you looking for exactly? He said?

1411
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 3: He said, Okay, you know those cool summer mixes you do.

1412
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 3: He says, you know how you put chords on it,

1413
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 3: but it still stays funky. He said, that's what I

1414
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 3: was trying to do on that record, and every time

1415
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 3: I tried to put chords on it, it wouldn't be funky.

1416
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 3: And we were like, okay, yeah, cool summers, Okay, yeah, yeah,

1417
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 3: we got it.

1418
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 2: We can do that, right.

1419
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 3: So then when he heard what we were doing, he said,

1420
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 3: oh no, I got to re sing it now. And

1421
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 3: so that's how it turned from a remix to a production,

1422
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 3: and that's how it ended up going. If you have

1423
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 3: the version of the album that was made after I

1424
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 3: don't know a million copies or however, they yeah, it

1425
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 3: had our version on it, because that was what he

1426
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 3: always envisioned the song as being and have.

1427
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 2: You heard the Nasty Cool Summer mix.

1428
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:06,759
Speaker 4: I mean they released it on the on the talking about.

1429
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,520
Speaker 1: The Herb remix and I was talking about the Diamond

1430
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 1: Diamonds Nasty.

1431
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 2: Yeah twelve Okay, totally.

1432
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, anyway, yeah damn this cool Summer mix.

1433
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 1: Are there mixes that didn't see the light of day

1434
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: that you guys did?

1435
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 3: No? I don't. I don't think so. So I think

1436
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 3: I mean we pretty much did them. We always do.

1437
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 3: I mean, I love doing it. It was always a

1438
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 3: lot of fun, and I always liked the idea of

1439
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 3: it was really two chains of thought because sometimes remixes

1440
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 3: back in the day, your remix was just you know,

1441
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,719
Speaker 3: the drums would be fatter or which it would literally

1442
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 3: be a remix where you wouldn't really be changing a lot,

1443
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 3: but just more the sounds you echo here, you do that.

1444
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 2: But I felt that was the.

1445
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 1: Best lesson you guys learned from Prince because the first

1446
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 1: time I heard someone totally like that little Corvette remix

1447
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: that totally, I was like, Oh, you put something in

1448
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: the relative minor and make it a whole new song,

1449
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,679
Speaker 1: and that's sort of thing, and that's what you guys

1450
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: were doing to like those songs, like totally making them

1451
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 1: new again, right, which I thought, Okay, now, maybe she'll

1452
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 1: do this in concert that way and that sort of thing.

1453
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 2: Sometimes she did, actually sometimes she did, which was kind

1454
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 2: of cool.

1455
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 3: But no, I I enjoyed doing that. It was just

1456
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 3: a cool creative way of doing it. I remember we did.

1457
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 3: Like one of my favorite ones was Crucial Addition Yes.

1458
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 4: Yes, yes remix, Yeah yesh re released.

1459
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 3: They just put out yep. Yeah see, I like that

1460
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. Was always really cool.

1461
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 2: That one where Ll wrote Mike Bivens rhyme and he

1462
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 2: gave him a shout out for Okay, I have.

1463
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:53,599
Speaker 6: Two things we need to talk about really quickly. One, uh,

1464
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 6: my favorite remix you guys ever did was were twelve

1465
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,959
Speaker 6: inches Schrelle's Fragile Handle with Care with the extended percussion.

1466
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 6: This is a gift from God, Thank you very much.

1467
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 6: Second new Edition Heartbreak album. The interlude, What is what

1468
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 6: is Ralph saying? Yo, jam hit the button?

1469
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 2: Now?

1470
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:22,679
Speaker 3: Okay, so what he's saying is he's saying the Alps button,

1471
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 3: the Alps button, right, But what it actually is is

1472
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 3: the OX But it sounded like that because they never

1473
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 3: called it the OX button. They just knew in the

1474
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 3: ALPS button, so they knew in the middle of the

1475
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:45,720
Speaker 3: board there was the button that you pressed when you

1476
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 3: wanted to hear it loud over the speakers whatever we

1477
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 3: were mixing, and there was this button and it said

1478
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 3: OX on it, and that was what it was. You

1479
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 3: pressed that button and then everything came back loud and

1480
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 3: on the big speakers. So that was the whole thing.

1481
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 3: So every record, when we got done, they would say

1482
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 3: and then just turned into this kind of running thing,

1483
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 3: and we just said, oh, let's put that on that

1484
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 3: on the record because it's just kind of funny.

1485
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 2: But yeah, I figure that wait now, okay, okay, okay,

1486
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 2: I see now I gotta hear Jill, Mike don't even

1487
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 2: sweat it. Jim hit the out button. So that's funny.

1488
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 2: But no, we we we love doing once again. That

1489
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 2: was an album.

1490
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 3: The great thing about that album we talked about hearsay.

1491
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 3: We didn't talk about it, but we talked about it offline.

1492
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 3: Those records. We controlled those records, the sequencing of the records,

1493
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 3: all of the songs, even if we didn't do them.

1494
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 3: We were like the executive producers, and so the ability

1495
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:54,639
Speaker 3: to put to humanize those records by putting little things

1496
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 3: like that into it, or the interludes on Hearsay where

1497
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 3: they're at a party.

1498
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 2: And the whole thing. You know, Yes, I hate to

1499
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 2: be the bear of bad news exactly.

1500
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 3: So I mean that to me was why those albums

1501
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:11,759
Speaker 3: they were actual albums to me. And that was always

1502
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 3: like a running concept exactly, and that was that was

1503
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 3: always the goal, and the sequencing was always really really important.

1504
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 3: And at a certain point when everything became very piecemeal

1505
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:23,559
Speaker 3: and you did your one song and you really had

1506
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 3: no say so. I I never liked the idea of that,

1507
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 3: but I mean it is what it is.

1508
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 2: You just do what you're You're asked to do two songs,

1509
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 2: so you do your two songs.

1510
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:33,640
Speaker 1: But I like the idea of I always wanted to

1511
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 1: know why with the Human League's record, was it that

1512
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 1: concept not allowed to fly?

1513
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:42,600
Speaker 2: Like? Was that more of a tug a war situation or.

1514
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 3: Just Human League was interesting because there was a lot

1515
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 3: of uh, well okay, So first of all, Human League

1516
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 3: was a.

1517
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 2: Guys get the swing. They were they were up for anything.

1518
01:14:59,000 --> 01:14:59,640
Speaker 2: I mean that that.

1519
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:02,799
Speaker 3: They were very cool, I must say, uh and Phil Okie,

1520
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 3: particularly the lead singer was amazing, dude, amazing dude. You

1521
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 3: guys were there to do it or no, they flew

1522
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 3: to us, Okay, So it was weird. So you got

1523
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 3: these guys coming from England, not even London, England, but Sheffield, England,

1524
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 3: which is you know, small town coming to Minneapolis and

1525
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 3: the dead of winner. Uh to work with you know,

1526
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 3: two blokes, two black blokes, I guess, uh, you know,

1527
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 3: it was a bit of a culture shock, I guess,

1528
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:37,599
Speaker 3: I would say. And Uh, the underlying kind of elephant

1529
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 3: in the room that whole record was that Phil the

1530
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 3: lead singer, was going out with one of the girls

1531
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:44,440
Speaker 3: in the group.

1532
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 2: And so I think it was Joe Anne, I think

1533
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 2: the darkhaired girl.

1534
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 5: Okay.

1535
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:55,720
Speaker 3: So it set up this interesting thing because they had

1536
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 3: already written a bunch of the songs themselves and they

1537
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 3: just wanted us to produce them and that was great,

1538
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 3: but then they wanted us to add our own songs

1539
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 3: to him. So it was like, okay, cool.

1540
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 2: And uh.

1541
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:08,880
Speaker 3: That was the first album that Steve Hodge actually engineered

1542
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,480
Speaker 3: for us, because we engineered the Control album basically ourselves,

1543
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,720
Speaker 3: and Steve kind of fixed it because we recorded it

1544
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:20,559
Speaker 3: totally wrong. When we did it, but he fixed it.

1545
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 3: But he said, I'm gonna come up and show you

1546
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 3: guys how to record. So that Human League is actually

1547
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,240
Speaker 3: sonically is probably one of our best albums because it's

1548
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 3: really done well. But the idea of creating was interesting

1549
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 3: because you know, we had the songs. They were down

1550
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 3: with the songs, but in particular Human Terry did the

1551
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 3: vocal on that song, produced a vocal on it, and

1552
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,640
Speaker 3: it was like a week at least a week of

1553
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 3: every day because think about you almost have to unteach

1554
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 3: Phil how to sing because Phil was always very robotic

1555
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 3: and always very stiff.

1556
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 1: And you know what I'm saying, you made them sound human, yea, yeah, human.

1557
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 2: But that took.

1558
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 3: It took a lot of so Terry, that was a

1559
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 3: Terry Lewis masterpiece to me. And I remember hearing the

1560
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:07,560
Speaker 3: finished vocal and just going, man, that's amazing. And I

1561
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 3: remember watching his face as he listened to because after

1562
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 3: he did the vocal, then Terry comped the vocal and everything,

1563
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:15,720
Speaker 3: and I remember watching his face and he just was

1564
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 3: like amazed how we sounded right. And so we went

1565
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:23,640
Speaker 3: and when we did the backgrounds, actually the backgrounds on

1566
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 3: the song is Lisa Keith and Terry. They're the ones

1567
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,560
Speaker 3: that are doing the ooh human. That's a combination of

1568
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:32,719
Speaker 3: those guys. Because Terry used to also be mister background.

1569
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 3: He used to call him mister background. So anyway, I

1570
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,559
Speaker 3: remember we played it and philm was like, Wow, that's

1571
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 3: really good. We were all like, wow, that's great. That

1572
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 3: sounds great. And I remember the girls being like, who's

1573
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 3: that other girl singing on the track and we said, oh,

1574
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 3: it's yeah. We said, oh that's Lisa Keith.

1575
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 7: Hmm.

1576
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 2: Not sure. We like that.

1577
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 3: Not sure, we fancy that such and such and such

1578
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 3: and such, you know, we we didn't get a chance

1579
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 3: to sing, and you know, whatever whatever whatever. And we

1580
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 3: were like, okay, well, you know, we'll figure it out

1581
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:11,320
Speaker 3: tomorrow or whatever whatever whatever. So they left and Terry

1582
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 3: was like, they can't sing this and so and we're like, yeah,

1583
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 3: we know. I mean, it's not that they couldn't sing,

1584
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 3: but for this particular song that texting them we're trying

1585
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:23,519
Speaker 3: to do, it didn't fit. So that's when Terry came

1586
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:25,080
Speaker 3: up with the idea, is I'm going to give him

1587
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:30,559
Speaker 3: a spoken part that was the olive branch. So we're

1588
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 3: gonna do this, we're gonna do the spoken part. But

1589
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 3: before the olive branch happened. Oh, the next day Phil.

1590
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 3: The next day, Phil came back to the studio and uh,

1591
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 3: everybody was with him, but only he came in the

1592
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 3: room and he kind of walks in the room and

1593
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:52,720
Speaker 3: he has this look on his face and we said,

1594
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:55,559
Speaker 3: what's up, Phil, how's it going. He says good, good,

1595
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 3: and uh, we said what's going on? And he goes,

1596
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:05,880
Speaker 3: I just have to say that we're against the other

1597
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 3: girl being on the track. And Terry and I said huh,

1598
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:14,799
Speaker 3: and he says, I just have to say we're against

1599
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 3: that other girl being on the track. So me and

1600
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 3: Terry look at each other and he says it again.

1601
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:39,679
Speaker 3: And then we said, oh, oh, okay, you just have

1602
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 3: to say you're against the girl being on the track.

1603
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 3: And he says, yes, I have to say. I mean

1604
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 3: we said we got you, we got you. Don't worry

1605
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,040
Speaker 3: about it. We got it because we know what went home?

1606
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 3: He went home with the girl, you know, to the hotel,

1607
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 3: and she was in his year all night or whatever

1608
01:19:57,200 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 3: the heck it was.

1609
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 1: They didn't get a smoke. Then no, I would have known.

1610
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,080
Speaker 1: I would have not known any different than you know.

1611
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 3: It was very funny. So he did his thing. It's like, okay,

1612
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 3: fill you're off the hook. You told us what you

1613
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 3: needed to tell us. What she said, you tell that's great.

1614
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 3: We came in, uh we did you know? Terry showed

1615
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:21,160
Speaker 3: the girl joeanned I think did the part and she said,

1616
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:22,880
Speaker 3: here you go, this is the part you're doing right,

1617
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 3: We're done with the song. Song's totally done. I don't

1618
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,759
Speaker 3: know at that point whether they beefed to the record

1619
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:34,479
Speaker 3: company or whoever it was, and we just said okay,

1620
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 3: and we've I don't think to this. I don't remember

1621
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:39,719
Speaker 3: us ever ever doing this on any other project, certainly

1622
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 3: not to that point. But we just said, here's our thing.

1623
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:48,479
Speaker 3: The songs that they brought that they did, they can

1624
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 3: mix them however the heck they want to do it.

1625
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 2: They got it.

1626
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:54,679
Speaker 3: The songs that we did were mixing exactly the way

1627
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:57,800
Speaker 3: we want them, and as far as human goes, if

1628
01:20:57,800 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 3: we don't get to do it the way we want

1629
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 3: to do it, we're just taking it off the record.

1630
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 3: And they were like, no, no, no, no, no, no,

1631
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:05,720
Speaker 3: you really did hit the but.

1632
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:14,559
Speaker 2: But that might have been the only time that that happened.

1633
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,760
Speaker 3: And it was interesting because I've read some articles where

1634
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:19,800
Speaker 3: Phil has talked about making the record now and he

1635
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 3: says we were puppets and whatever. He has a whole

1636
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 3: different kind of recollection of it than we do, and

1637
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 3: you know, hey, that's the way, you know. But it's

1638
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 3: like you hired us to make your record. You had

1639
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 3: made your record basically as demos, and you wanted us

1640
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 3: to do it our way. So basically it was like

1641
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 3: taking what they did and then I would play the

1642
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 3: parts or I would have them play the parts or

1643
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 3: whatever it was. But it was just you hired us,

1644
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 3: We did what you hired us to do. There was

1645
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:51,720
Speaker 3: no puppet anything to me. And that was the only.

1646
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 1: So I can assume that they didn't write I Need

1647
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 1: You Love, Oh no, no no, But did they write

1648
01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:59,479
Speaker 1: the last song, the song that closes the record? Nothing

1649
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: else even matters or a yeah, okay, yeah, so yeah.

1650
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 1: But I was gonna say, like, if you're given the

1651
01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:13,679
Speaker 1: Human League and you know their history, it's it's very

1652
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 1: telling that you really brought them to your side of.

1653
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:18,840
Speaker 5: The fence, brought them down to our.

1654
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 1: World, as opposed to because I would have figured that

1655
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: you guys would have been like all right, announced, all right.

1656
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:29,160
Speaker 1: So Prince's concept with the family was you wanna get

1657
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 1: some of that Duran Durram money, right. You didn't think

1658
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 1: at one point like, yo, now's really time for us

1659
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:38,720
Speaker 1: to show cash me off all the all the all

1660
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: the Middle America, like all the Middle America am radio

1661
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:45,559
Speaker 1: shit that we've learned, we can now use them as

1662
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 1: the calling card.

1663
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:50,920
Speaker 3: But no, because we didn't feel that they that was

1664
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 3: what they necessarily were. I mean, they had obviously big records,

1665
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:55,800
Speaker 3: but there was a reason that they had come to

1666
01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:58,680
Speaker 3: us anyway to me, even with the big records that

1667
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 3: they had, because I remember Fascination was one of my

1668
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:02,919
Speaker 3: I mean, Don't You Want Me was great, but Fascination

1669
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 3: was my record.

1670
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 2: I love that.

1671
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 3: So to me, the fact that they were coming to

1672
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 3: us was you're coming to us for a reason, and

1673
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:12,400
Speaker 3: it's not to make a pop radio it's to make.

1674
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like a song like I Need You Loving.

1675
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:19,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't think Alex would have tore the ship

1676
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 1: out of it?

1677
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:23,719
Speaker 3: Of course he would have. Yeah, Okay, yeah, I agree,

1678
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 3: I agree with that. But it was fun. They listen,

1679
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 3: they we played them stuff and they picked the stuff

1680
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 3: they like, they liked that song, they loved they loved

1681
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 3: that record, and we like the idea of doing a

1682
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 3: record like that on them because it's not the kind

1683
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 3: of record you would expect, you know, to hear from them.

1684
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did not expect that. Totally did not expect that.

1685
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:45,680
Speaker 4: Me and Zoe we covered Humans some years back on

1686
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:47,600
Speaker 4: the on our eighties record because.

1687
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:48,759
Speaker 2: That's right.

1688
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:08,719
Speaker 1: So with It's weird though, because it's like I felt

1689
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 1: like Control was your most important record, but I actually

1690
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 1: feel like Heartbreak was your make or break record because

1691
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:21,759
Speaker 1: what that allowed you to do.

1692
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:24,320
Speaker 2: Was really crossed the.

1693
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 1: Bridge into what young people were you know, are into,

1694
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:35,640
Speaker 1: which you know, not even I don't even consider it

1695
01:24:35,680 --> 01:24:38,800
Speaker 1: as like, oh can jam and Lewis handle new Jack Swing?

1696
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:42,800
Speaker 1: But more or less like the standard of it, you

1697
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:46,280
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like it, I felt like that

1698
01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:48,800
Speaker 1: was a real make or break record for you that

1699
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 1: allowed you to then grab folks that are even younger,

1700
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:57,760
Speaker 1: like did you see that? Did you even see that

1701
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 1: as a challenge or was it just like, Okay, well

1702
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:01,599
Speaker 1: we're just getting new addition, and.

1703
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:04,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we just thought we just were just

1704
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 3: do a new addition. Like it's like in the moment.

1705
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:10,080
Speaker 3: I don't think it's easy to look back historically and

1706
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:13,760
Speaker 3: go and you know that that was some sort of

1707
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:15,760
Speaker 3: turning point. I mean, it was the first time that

1708
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 3: we really it was probably the first time we really

1709
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:24,280
Speaker 3: adopted a lot of hip hop into what we were doing,

1710
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 3: or at least a lot of that kind of sound

1711
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 3: and a lot of.

1712
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 1: You know, was it a discussion between you two, like, Okay,

1713
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:34,679
Speaker 1: now our straight up funk might be dated by eighty

1714
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:38,559
Speaker 1: eight eighty nine. We gotta figure out what's going on

1715
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:40,400
Speaker 1: in New Jack Swing and that sort of thing, Like

1716
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:42,800
Speaker 1: what was your impression like when you first heard the

1717
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 1: Guy record and the Key Sweat record and.

1718
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:50,719
Speaker 3: Love at first to listen, absolute love. Matter of fact,

1719
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 3: I remember having a conversation when the Key Sweat record

1720
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:59,680
Speaker 3: came out. I remember having a conversation with Babyface about that.

1721
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:03,479
Speaker 3: We were at a club somewhere and I remember we

1722
01:26:03,479 --> 01:26:04,960
Speaker 3: were talking about it. I said, Man, you heard this dude,

1723
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:08,200
Speaker 3: Keith Sweatman, And he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I

1724
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 3: love that record. I love that record. That record sounds

1725
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 3: like y'all's record because it sounds because it was if

1726
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,080
Speaker 3: you think about it, to me, the New Jack Swing record. Now,

1727
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:17,759
Speaker 3: I don't know what the first new Jack Swing record,

1728
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:19,680
Speaker 3: but the first for me, one of the first New

1729
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:25,400
Speaker 3: Jack Swing records was actually nasty and the kind of

1730
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 3: fluty string sound on that to me is what I

1731
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:36,840
Speaker 3: want her was. But they were using Teddy was using more. Yeah,

1732
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 3: but that was that same thing. And I remember we

1733
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 3: were talking about that, and I remember Facer might have

1734
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 3: been La said, well, you know, Keith's cool, but you

1735
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:48,720
Speaker 3: know who the real dude on that record is. This

1736
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 3: is this kid, Teddy Riley. He's like the dude. And

1737
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 3: we're like, oh, really, who's it? Oh he produced the record,

1738
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:58,320
Speaker 3: and we were like, oh shit, okay. So we went

1739
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:01,519
Speaker 3: then out of Teddy Riley quest at that point and

1740
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:04,080
Speaker 3: trying to find you know, other you know, more records

1741
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:06,520
Speaker 3: that he had done because it was just still brand new.

1742
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 3: But that was that was an amazing record, an amazing

1743
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:14,200
Speaker 3: album too. I mean, so yeah, no, we love that.

1744
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 3: We've always embraced pretty much what's out there. We've never

1745
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:22,640
Speaker 3: really had the attitude of I mean, we certainly have

1746
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:24,840
Speaker 3: things we personally like and don't like, but we've never

1747
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:25,880
Speaker 3: had the attitude of.

1748
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 1: You didn't scoff at some of the patches like some

1749
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 1: of those like Stanley Brown cheesy saxophone, like I think.

1750
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 2: Of the saxophone like the greatest love of all.

1751
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:42,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like like you weren't scoffing at some of the patches, like.

1752
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 2: All right, it was a little amateurist, you know. No,

1753
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 2: well I don't think so. I think patches were always classy.

1754
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:54,800
Speaker 3: Like you guys always use just presets though, right, Like, yeah,

1755
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:56,400
Speaker 3: I was. I was a big preset guy.

1756
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 2: Mie.

1757
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:58,600
Speaker 3: I said in an article a long time ago and

1758
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 3: Keyboard magazine that somebody would give me a keyboard because

1759
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,040
Speaker 3: because the companies would start was at that point where

1760
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 3: people would just give us keyboards, right, and they go, man,

1761
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 3: this one's this one's great, man. And the great thing

1762
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 3: about it is, man, you can really tweak the sounds.

1763
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:16,839
Speaker 3: And I said, I don't want to tweak sounds. Somebody's

1764
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:19,040
Speaker 3: getting paid a bunch of money to put really great

1765
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:21,160
Speaker 3: sounds in this. I shouldn't have to tweak it. I

1766
01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 3: should go through the presets. And when I go through

1767
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 3: the presets and I don't come up with a song idea,

1768
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:28,800
Speaker 3: that keyboard is going back.

1769
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:29,680
Speaker 2: You know.

1770
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 3: So if I get so, if I get a keyboard,

1771
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 3: like so we're you know, uh, probably one of my

1772
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:40,280
Speaker 3: favorite all time was in Sonic. And you know, in

1773
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 3: Sonic's funny because in Sonic got no respect as a

1774
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:50,280
Speaker 3: keyboard company. Anne, but control the horn hits the horn

1775
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:53,920
Speaker 3: hits Son. When I think of you for a mirage,

1776
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:59,480
Speaker 3: the sound on Nasty, the goo goo going on that mirage,

1777
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:04,360
Speaker 3: the little fluty sound on Nasty mirage, the Janet Jackson's signature.

1778
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:08,680
Speaker 2: Really because I was really the barage.

1779
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 3: So I said in an article I just mentioned, I said,

1780
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:13,960
Speaker 3: oh yeah, that's a mirage.

1781
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:16,599
Speaker 2: Pset, like I could have those noises.

1782
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:19,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're actually floppy this because they're samples. They're floppy.

1783
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:24,680
Speaker 2: D'Angel probably got this. Just wait for that.

1784
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:27,720
Speaker 3: They're not bad, yeah right, So I mean that was

1785
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:31,040
Speaker 3: the thing. So that keyboard inspired there would be wouldn't

1786
01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 3: be nasty without that sound. Okay, so these the keyboard

1787
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:37,240
Speaker 3: inspired that sound. So I was in a Sonic keyboard

1788
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 3: fan just from that. I remember they sent us a

1789
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 3: whole bunch of other keyboards, but the one they sent

1790
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 3: us was this keyboard called I think it was called

1791
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:49,519
Speaker 3: an MR seventy six and not to skip around, but

1792
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 3: velvet rope.

1793
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 2: Ninety percent of that.

1794
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 3: Is Mr seventy six keyboard, the drum loops, all the

1795
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 3: road sounds, all the you use, all the stock stuff.

1796
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 3: I use all the stock stuff, yes, because to me crazy, Yeah.

1797
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:10,200
Speaker 3: But the thing is to me is and obviously and

1798
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 3: did not and I can't diminish it. I mean I

1799
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 3: can't not diminish it. I can't put enough importance on

1800
01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 3: Steve Hodge mixed it. So Steve Hodge made it sound

1801
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:21,640
Speaker 3: the best that could sound. But a lot of stuff

1802
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:25,240
Speaker 3: we talked about, Uh, let's see body that loves you

1803
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 3: we mentioned earlier. I'm trying to think of another song anytime,

1804
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:32,200
Speaker 3: any place, for instance. Part of it is the way

1805
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 3: that you play the patches. You know, a sax patch

1806
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 3: can sound totally cheesy if somebody plays it, if they

1807
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 3: don't play it like a sax player, Like I'll tell

1808
01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:44,680
Speaker 3: you that one.

1809
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,800
Speaker 2: I'll have to give you one. That's the way love goes.

1810
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 2: So the the guitar part that.

1811
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:58,240
Speaker 3: Goes bank bink right, No, it's a S three.

1812
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,920
Speaker 1: I don't even have an always say that I'm sorry,

1813
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:07,960
Speaker 1: this is all I got, my god really yeah.

1814
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:10,400
Speaker 3: So, but but the way you play it, if you

1815
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:12,320
Speaker 3: play like it, yeah, but if you play it like

1816
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:13,799
Speaker 3: a if you played like that's.

1817
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 2: A keyboard, yeah yeah.

1818
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 3: And so if you somebody, if you play it like

1819
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:22,400
Speaker 3: a guitar player would play it. And see that's where

1820
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:25,880
Speaker 3: Terry would come in, because Terry, if I did something

1821
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:28,760
Speaker 3: like that, he'd say, guitar wouldn't play it like that,

1822
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:31,280
Speaker 3: or bass player wouldn't play it like that. And so

1823
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:33,600
Speaker 3: he always kept me. So whenever I played him a

1824
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,920
Speaker 3: track and I did like guitar, my little fake guitar

1825
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:40,320
Speaker 3: stuff on it, if he said, oh man, who did

1826
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 3: you get to play guitar?

1827
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:43,280
Speaker 2: I knew I had something.

1828
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:46,080
Speaker 3: So anytime any places one where there's it kind of

1829
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:49,160
Speaker 3: sounds like a jazz guitar. This guy goes plute, it

1830
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 3: sounds like a like a.

1831
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:55,640
Speaker 2: Uh Wes Montgomery. I was thinking of Ronnie.

1832
01:31:56,920 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 1: He just passed away it. No, no, no, not even

1833
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:15,920
Speaker 1: Ronnie Foster. He's from London, he told me from.

1834
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:27,639
Speaker 2: Damn Yeah, Ronnie Jordan's. I don't know Ronnie Jordan's keep

1835
01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:37,559
Speaker 2: saying he passed away. Yeah. I thought, like, you guys

1836
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:39,639
Speaker 2: have Ronnie Jordan's or somebody that.

1837
01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:43,800
Speaker 3: Know every like on that particular song. If I'm not mistaken,

1838
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,400
Speaker 3: I think every instrument on that song is from the

1839
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:50,599
Speaker 3: same keyboard and it's all it's all uh, it's all

1840
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:54,120
Speaker 3: stock sounds. I'll give you one more like that. If

1841
01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:55,640
Speaker 3: no guitars on it.

1842
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:02,559
Speaker 4: Wow, just think of the opening.

1843
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:06,960
Speaker 2: No guitar okay, I can put the whaling guitar.

1844
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 5: Guitar okay.

1845
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:11,639
Speaker 3: So you kind of you you mentioned something which tells

1846
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:14,240
Speaker 3: me that there's still a level of respect between you two.

1847
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,960
Speaker 2: But what song have you two done and which.

1848
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:25,839
Speaker 1: It could have gone to humanly confrontational levels?

1849
01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:29,639
Speaker 2: Have you t ever argued Terry and I Yes, No,

1850
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 2: what No? Have you ever ever this far?

1851
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:37,880
Speaker 3: No, not even close. We haven't even raised We've never

1852
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:40,400
Speaker 3: we've never even raised our voices at any.

1853
01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:44,879
Speaker 1: At least passive aggressive, like we're passive aggressive, like POKEM

1854
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:45,920
Speaker 1: in the eye or anything.

1855
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:52,559
Speaker 2: No, we never have.

1856
01:33:53,840 --> 01:33:56,559
Speaker 3: It's you know, it's a it's a unique relationship because

1857
01:33:57,640 --> 01:34:01,160
Speaker 3: it's over the years it's just kind of evolved into.

1858
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:04,639
Speaker 3: First of all, there's we're not joined at the hip.

1859
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:07,120
Speaker 3: There's a thought that were joined at the hip and

1860
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:09,320
Speaker 3: we do everything together, and I think if we did,

1861
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:12,640
Speaker 3: there would probably be more of a you know, a

1862
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:15,040
Speaker 3: friction or something that could just happen just because of

1863
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 3: being in proximity to somebody so much. But we live

1864
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:26,800
Speaker 3: different lives. We have, you know, for instance, I you know, well,

1865
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:28,880
Speaker 3: here's a good example. I do an interview, although Terry's

1866
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:32,840
Speaker 3: actually under under the weather today. But I like talking

1867
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:36,559
Speaker 3: music in that and Terry does too, but not to

1868
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:40,200
Speaker 3: the degree I do, you know, But it's what makes me.

1869
01:34:40,240 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 2: Be out after an hour have this. Yeah, oh yeah,

1870
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:45,280
Speaker 2: he would have been. He would have been long on long.

1871
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:51,080
Speaker 3: He would have actually, he would he would probably enjoy. Well, no,

1872
01:34:51,320 --> 01:34:57,360
Speaker 3: he wouldn't, but he would no, but he he, he

1873
01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:00,320
Speaker 3: would enjoy. He would enjoy talking to you if we

1874
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:01,800
Speaker 3: were at dinner and we were just hanging out and

1875
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:04,920
Speaker 3: having dinner and talking, you guys would have a great

1876
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:09,000
Speaker 3: conversation with him. He because he's such an amazing mind,

1877
01:35:09,600 --> 01:35:11,200
Speaker 3: and also talking about his lyrics.

1878
01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:11,519
Speaker 2: See.

1879
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:13,760
Speaker 3: The thing it's great about lyrics with him is that

1880
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:17,040
Speaker 3: part of the beauty of a great lyricist is you

1881
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,599
Speaker 3: can say what you need to say in a few words.

1882
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:24,639
Speaker 3: And I'm very long winded, and so that's the reason

1883
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:26,560
Speaker 3: I think I'm not necessarily that good at lyrics. I

1884
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 3: can say what I want to say, but it just

1885
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 3: takes me too many words to say it, okay. And

1886
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:34,640
Speaker 3: a perfect example is the Janet record of Living in

1887
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:38,599
Speaker 3: the World they didn't make, and we had been watching

1888
01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:41,240
Speaker 3: it looks like the way see it looks now pretty

1889
01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 3: much honestly, but just all kinds of just craziness in

1890
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:48,719
Speaker 3: the world and school shootings and just all kinds of stuff,

1891
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:50,840
Speaker 3: and we just felt like we got to do a

1892
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 3: song that addresses that that it's not the kid's fault,

1893
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:58,160
Speaker 3: it's the world that we've built as adults for the kids.

1894
01:35:58,280 --> 01:36:04,000
Speaker 2: Right, what does that song need to be? So we're like,

1895
01:36:04,120 --> 01:36:05,240
Speaker 2: we need Terry, right.

1896
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 3: Because it was just me and Janet talking about it,

1897
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:10,639
Speaker 3: and Terry was actually at the time at our then

1898
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:14,040
Speaker 3: our new studio putting you know, we were building it

1899
01:36:14,160 --> 01:36:16,880
Speaker 3: at the time. So Terry walks in the door of

1900
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:18,439
Speaker 3: our old play we're still at our old place. He

1901
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:20,680
Speaker 3: walks in the door with like carpet samples and all

1902
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:22,840
Speaker 3: kinds of stuff. We're like, jan what do you think

1903
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:25,519
Speaker 3: about the carpet sample and then whatever whatever? No, no, Terry,

1904
01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:27,960
Speaker 3: we need lyrics, man, we need lyrics. He said, okay,

1905
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:30,599
Speaker 3: what's the concept? And I said okay, because man, these kids,

1906
01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:34,519
Speaker 3: man parents are making the bad decisions, and the adults

1907
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:36,600
Speaker 3: are making the bad decisions, and the kids pay for

1908
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 3: the mistakes that we make and such and such, and

1909
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:41,880
Speaker 3: I go into this big long thing, and Terry at

1910
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:44,599
Speaker 3: the end of it just goes living in the world

1911
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:47,559
Speaker 3: they didn't make, walks into the room ten minutes later,

1912
01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:50,400
Speaker 3: hands Jenet the lyrics and goes here you go wow,

1913
01:36:50,880 --> 01:36:55,280
Speaker 3: so damn yeah, so that's and then he goes no,

1914
01:36:55,360 --> 01:37:01,720
Speaker 3: which Carpet staw no and s And Terry is a

1915
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:04,600
Speaker 3: really good multitasker too, so he could he could do that.

1916
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:05,640
Speaker 3: His brain could work like that.

1917
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:06,960
Speaker 2: But that was the thing.

1918
01:37:07,479 --> 01:37:10,360
Speaker 3: But because we're not joined at the hip, and we

1919
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 3: each have things that we do really well. Even in

1920
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:19,120
Speaker 3: picking projects very much like picking you know, what radio

1921
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:22,200
Speaker 3: show to do, for instance, or podcast or whatever, whatever

1922
01:37:22,479 --> 01:37:27,360
Speaker 3: the decision is, sometimes we if we neither of us

1923
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:30,479
Speaker 3: feel it, then it's just a no, you know. If

1924
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:33,680
Speaker 3: one of us feels it, then it's like, you know,

1925
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:36,640
Speaker 3: we'll explain to the other why we feel good about it,

1926
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 3: and we just kind of know now, you know. I

1927
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:45,320
Speaker 3: remember I mentioned your show to Terry, you know, three

1928
01:37:45,439 --> 01:37:47,840
Speaker 3: four or five months ago and stuff, and I said,

1929
01:37:47,880 --> 01:37:51,000
Speaker 3: you know we should do Questlo show, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever,

1930
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 3: you know, what's the show about us? So it's just

1931
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:55,000
Speaker 3: like it's really good, it's really in depth, and you know,

1932
01:37:55,080 --> 01:37:57,599
Speaker 3: it's kind of cool. He said, oh yeah, okay, yeah,

1933
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 3: it sounds okay, it's interesting. You know, it's like here

1934
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:04,360
Speaker 3: he goes, but I love I love quest Love. Yeah, okay,

1935
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:07,360
Speaker 3: but not I love I'll do it. I just I

1936
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:08,080
Speaker 3: love quest Love.

1937
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:08,360
Speaker 2: Okay.

1938
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:12,200
Speaker 3: So cool, Okay, so I know that going into it,

1939
01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:14,200
Speaker 3: it's like okay, no, So then I'm like, okay, is

1940
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:16,160
Speaker 3: that something? But no, I I really want to do it,

1941
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:18,320
Speaker 3: and I and I think it would be interesting to

1942
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:20,080
Speaker 3: do it, would be a great conversation whatever. Okay, So

1943
01:38:20,439 --> 01:38:23,160
Speaker 3: that's why. But we do projects the same way. And

1944
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:27,400
Speaker 3: I swear to God, there's there's there's people that will

1945
01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:31,040
Speaker 3: swear to God that Terry does all the work and

1946
01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:35,240
Speaker 3: I don't do a thing. And there's and there's people

1947
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:38,280
Speaker 3: that will swear that Terry doesn't do a thing.

1948
01:38:38,640 --> 01:38:46,240
Speaker 2: I feel like your pen and he's teller, like no, no, no,

1949
01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:47,760
Speaker 2: I think he doesn't work.

1950
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:50,920
Speaker 1: But because we don't have a gauge for his personality

1951
01:38:52,240 --> 01:38:55,639
Speaker 1: that I'm just trying to figure out. Okay, Penna Teller

1952
01:38:55,720 --> 01:38:57,479
Speaker 1: is an interesting and now I thought you were the

1953
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:00,360
Speaker 1: lyrics guy because you talk to the most of the two.

1954
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 3: Right, No, I'm not, I'm not. I remember one of

1955
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:07,120
Speaker 3: the songs I actually did a lot of the lyrics.

1956
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:09,559
Speaker 3: Song was just be good to Me. And I remember

1957
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:11,720
Speaker 3: thinking the whole time I was writing it, this is

1958
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:12,679
Speaker 3: way too long.

1959
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:16,840
Speaker 2: And six minutes. Yeah, I remember that.

1960
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:21,000
Speaker 3: I remember that, and and I remember it was funny

1961
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:23,680
Speaker 3: because I also remember like Saturday Love, like I came

1962
01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:29,439
Speaker 3: up with the hook on that, and I was like

1963
01:39:29,760 --> 01:39:32,400
Speaker 3: so embarrassed, like when I was at my house. And

1964
01:39:32,520 --> 01:39:34,240
Speaker 3: matter of fact, that the piano I wrote it on

1965
01:39:34,439 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 3: is the piano that's downstairs, which is also the Tenderlove piano,

1966
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:41,320
Speaker 3: by the way, But I had it in my little apartment.

1967
01:39:41,640 --> 01:39:43,400
Speaker 3: You know, I had my first little apartment stuff, so

1968
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:44,280
Speaker 3: I had the piano in there.

1969
01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 2: Right.

1970
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:47,240
Speaker 3: So anyway, I write Saturday Love where I have the

1971
01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:50,439
Speaker 3: chords and stuff, and I got the Sunday Monday Tuesday,

1972
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:53,200
Speaker 3: and I'm jamming. I don't think, oh man, this is cool.

1973
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:55,479
Speaker 3: So I get to the studio and I'm like, Terry,

1974
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:57,840
Speaker 3: I got the song, man, He said, yeah, yeah, what

1975
01:39:57,960 --> 01:39:58,080
Speaker 3: is it.

1976
01:39:58,640 --> 01:40:01,680
Speaker 2: And I said, it's like it's like the days of

1977
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:06,800
Speaker 2: the week. It's already sounded stupid now coming out of

1978
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:10,599
Speaker 2: my mouth, well singing man. And I said, okay, well

1979
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:17,680
Speaker 2: it's like Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. And he starts laughing. He says, oh,

1980
01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:19,559
Speaker 2: that's funny. It's it's like Sesame Street.

1981
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:20,360
Speaker 1: I said yeah.

1982
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:23,920
Speaker 2: I said yeah, I said, forget it, forget it, forget

1983
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:27,160
Speaker 2: it anyway. He said no, no, no, it's cool. It's cool.

1984
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:28,360
Speaker 2: I get it, I get it, I get it.

1985
01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:31,040
Speaker 3: So anyway, we do the song. Here's what we how

1986
01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:34,639
Speaker 3: much we really didn't think a lot of the song.

1987
01:40:36,040 --> 01:40:38,080
Speaker 3: The first and second lyrics.

1988
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:43,880
Speaker 2: Zach same exactly, second verse, the first second verse save

1989
01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:52,519
Speaker 2: the first damn. Wow, yeah, why did you freaking see

1990
01:40:55,400 --> 01:41:00,240
Speaker 2: it's the same, it's lazy afternoon. We just didn't we

1991
01:41:00,280 --> 01:41:04,840
Speaker 2: don't know how to write hooks. It's like we got

1992
01:41:04,920 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 2: to turn this record in tomorrow, just repeat it over again.

1993
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, so that that was the thing. So that

1994
01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:12,920
Speaker 2: was what we thought of it.

1995
01:41:13,120 --> 01:41:15,720
Speaker 3: And even when we put it on the album, we

1996
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:19,040
Speaker 3: were kind of like, and we remember we released I

1997
01:41:19,080 --> 01:41:20,719
Speaker 3: Think you Look Good to Me. It's the first single,

1998
01:41:21,439 --> 01:41:24,400
Speaker 3: and you look good to me, was doing well and

1999
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:26,880
Speaker 3: it's moving up the charts, and it was everything was

2000
01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:29,360
Speaker 3: doing well. And I remember it got to about I

2001
01:41:29,439 --> 01:41:32,000
Speaker 3: don't know thirty or whatever, and it just kind of

2002
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:33,280
Speaker 3: started slowing down.

2003
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:36,720
Speaker 2: And we were like going, what the hell is going on?

2004
01:41:36,840 --> 01:41:38,120
Speaker 2: And so we called the record company.

2005
01:41:38,120 --> 01:41:39,280
Speaker 3: We said, well, what are we what's going on with

2006
01:41:39,360 --> 01:41:41,640
Speaker 3: the record And they said, hey, man, everybody's jumping to

2007
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:42,360
Speaker 3: this Saturday Love.

2008
01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:45,640
Speaker 7: And I'm like, I told you because I remember too.

2009
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:47,800
Speaker 7: The challenge was if you could really get it in

2010
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:49,519
Speaker 7: the right cadence, like you felt.

2011
01:41:49,320 --> 01:41:50,040
Speaker 2: Good about yourself.

2012
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:54,719
Speaker 7: I remember the time when I finally got I was like, yes, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Sday.

2013
01:41:55,320 --> 01:41:56,599
Speaker 2: Weren't you three when that came?

2014
01:41:56,800 --> 01:41:58,200
Speaker 7: Didn't remember singing?

2015
01:41:58,200 --> 01:42:06,479
Speaker 2: It was accomplished. Speaking of which, uh, I've seen Cherrell

2016
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 2: open up for Nu Distion once. Yeah.

2017
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:13,280
Speaker 1: Rick Rand and Dan were like dog They were so

2018
01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:18,280
Speaker 1: freaking charismatic and their own How come Rick Rand and

2019
01:42:18,400 --> 01:42:19,040
Speaker 1: Dan were not.

2020
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:21,120
Speaker 2: Their own group? They were who is?

2021
01:42:21,200 --> 01:42:25,400
Speaker 1: Rick Randon was like like you remember when Prince had

2022
01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:29,240
Speaker 1: his Jerome and the two bodyguards like as his pips.

2023
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:33,719
Speaker 2: She had her own pips and they was like funky.

2024
01:42:34,040 --> 01:42:36,720
Speaker 2: They were like straight up like I wanted them to

2025
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:37,240
Speaker 2: be a group.

2026
01:42:37,439 --> 01:42:41,760
Speaker 3: They were a group. Wait, Rick Rannon Dan, they were

2027
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 3: a group. They were a group recorded them. Uh well,

2028
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:49,639
Speaker 3: we started recording them. You produce the song for Rick, Yes,

2029
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:52,040
Speaker 3: But tragically.

2030
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:55,880
Speaker 2: Ran Randy uh died in a motorcycle accident.

2031
01:42:56,040 --> 01:42:59,719
Speaker 3: He was Charuelle's husband's I don't think they were married,

2032
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:01,160
Speaker 3: but her boyfriend.

2033
01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Randy ran Oh, Randy who wrote That's Been to

2034
01:43:05,360 --> 01:43:08,240
Speaker 2: Night for Johnna Gill. Yes. Yeah, so he was so

2035
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:12,400
Speaker 2: rand you know that. Yeah, one of my favorite albums.

2036
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:15,439
Speaker 2: I love that album. That's my job. I'm supposed to know.

2037
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:18,400
Speaker 2: That's why I got the redhead phones.

2038
01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:25,599
Speaker 3: When Randy Randy was amazing. And I remember Charelle introduced

2039
01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:29,080
Speaker 3: us to him and uh she said.

2040
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want you to meet my boyfriend. Uh, this

2041
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:35,840
Speaker 2: is Randy and he's got this group Rick Randon Dan

2042
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:38,240
Speaker 2: and whatever. Whatever. We said, Okay, cool, Well we'll check

2043
01:43:38,320 --> 01:43:39,240
Speaker 2: him out. We'll check him out.

2044
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:41,479
Speaker 3: And then so when we did You Look Good to Me,

2045
01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:43,920
Speaker 3: we put him in the video. We put Rick Randon

2046
01:43:44,120 --> 01:43:46,640
Speaker 3: on the video of You Look Good to Me. And

2047
01:43:47,080 --> 01:43:49,040
Speaker 3: the plan was that, yeah, we were going to make

2048
01:43:49,080 --> 01:43:51,320
Speaker 3: a record with him, like that was the next thing

2049
01:43:51,400 --> 01:43:52,040
Speaker 3: we were going to do.

2050
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:54,840
Speaker 2: They were the first cats I ever seen do the snake.

2051
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, that's right, the first time I seen

2052
01:43:59,040 --> 01:44:01,400
Speaker 1: that scene, and so training we all started doing this.

2053
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:05,760
Speaker 3: No, they were they were crazy talented. Uh as a

2054
01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:10,120
Speaker 3: group and uh. But but Randy as a writer and producer,

2055
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:14,559
Speaker 3: he did a lot of songs. He did Uh, I'm

2056
01:44:14,560 --> 01:44:18,519
Speaker 3: trying to think I'm totally blanking, but he produced a

2057
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:21,519
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of songs for us back in

2058
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:25,320
Speaker 3: the day. Was very, very talented, super nice dude. But

2059
01:44:25,439 --> 01:44:28,040
Speaker 3: he got a motorcycle man, he just was, you know,

2060
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:29,559
Speaker 3: and just a motorcycle accident.

2061
01:44:30,360 --> 01:44:33,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to ask you about Perspective Records and like,

2062
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 4: how did when you guys first started was Sounds of Blackness?

2063
01:44:37,240 --> 01:44:40,840
Speaker 3: You'll very first as Yes, that was very first, very

2064
01:44:40,920 --> 01:44:43,200
Speaker 3: first act and it Sounds of Blackness was the story

2065
01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:43,559
Speaker 3: with them?

2066
01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:52,719
Speaker 2: Was all forty of them signed that contract one hundred

2067
01:44:53,400 --> 01:45:00,920
Speaker 2: a week. Yeah, yeah, that's right. You know.

2068
01:45:01,080 --> 01:45:04,679
Speaker 3: The ironic thing about that about that statement though, which

2069
01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:07,160
Speaker 3: is very true, and it's one of the reasons that

2070
01:45:07,400 --> 01:45:14,559
Speaker 3: we never criticize Prince's decision because you know, it's kind

2071
01:45:14,600 --> 01:45:17,240
Speaker 3: of like, it's tough to criticize the boss if you've

2072
01:45:17,320 --> 01:45:18,080
Speaker 3: never been a boss.

2073
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:19,160
Speaker 2: And so.

2074
01:45:21,240 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 3: We didn't agree with a lot of things that Prince did,

2075
01:45:23,520 --> 01:45:27,200
Speaker 3: but we were in the position we were in because

2076
01:45:27,240 --> 01:45:29,080
Speaker 3: of the things he did do or you know, or

2077
01:45:29,120 --> 01:45:31,960
Speaker 3: whatever those decisions were. We looked at where we were

2078
01:45:32,040 --> 01:45:35,200
Speaker 3: at and realized we wouldn't have been there without those decisions,

2079
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:39,639
Speaker 3: even the decision to kick us out the group, which

2080
01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:42,599
Speaker 3: was the best decision, Yeah, he could have made for us,

2081
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:44,599
Speaker 3: because we wouldn't have left the group on our own.

2082
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 3: It's like, no, we love being with the group, so

2083
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 3: you never knows, but yeah, you're absolutely right. That was that,

2084
01:45:50,160 --> 01:45:53,000
Speaker 3: you know, Sounds of Blackness, Like, that's an expensive group

2085
01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:56,080
Speaker 3: to get around, and we and we dug in our

2086
01:45:56,120 --> 01:45:58,560
Speaker 3: pocket to do it because we believed in what it was.

2087
01:46:00,120 --> 01:46:01,600
Speaker 2: Janet was.

2088
01:46:01,720 --> 01:46:03,840
Speaker 3: Actually, we took Janet to a show when we were

2089
01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:07,800
Speaker 3: working on uh Rhythma, and we took her to a show,

2090
01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:12,240
Speaker 3: and the whole show she was nudging me because the

2091
01:46:12,280 --> 01:46:14,639
Speaker 3: whole thing about Sounds of Blackness, it was all celebrated

2092
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:16,600
Speaker 3: all the different kinds of black music. It wasn't just

2093
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:18,679
Speaker 3: it was gospel, but it was jazz, it was blues,

2094
01:46:18,720 --> 01:46:22,080
Speaker 3: it was everything, and every time they'd launch into a

2095
01:46:22,120 --> 01:46:23,920
Speaker 3: different thing, she nudged me and go, oh they're doing

2096
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:26,120
Speaker 3: a jazz song. Oh they're doing a gospel song.

2097
01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:28,559
Speaker 2: Oh they're you know. And it was like, yeah, Janet,

2098
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:29,160
Speaker 2: that's what they do.

2099
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:31,920
Speaker 3: Like we knew them because we would play like on

2100
01:46:32,000 --> 01:46:35,679
Speaker 3: the same gigs as them, as flight Time, we would play.

2101
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:37,439
Speaker 2: Like they were around that long. Yeah oh they yeah,

2102
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:40,599
Speaker 2: they were around the s Yeah that's right.

2103
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:44,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, same members, same members, same same director and Nesby

2104
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:46,679
Speaker 3: and as Gary Hines.

2105
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:49,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, they a nice fro Yep.

2106
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:52,479
Speaker 4: They were like, guys, it's kind of like Ladiesmith Black Mombazzo,

2107
01:46:52,640 --> 01:46:53,800
Speaker 4: like they were well.

2108
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

2109
01:46:54,479 --> 01:46:56,880
Speaker 3: So so they they were around forever. So when we

2110
01:46:57,040 --> 01:47:00,360
Speaker 3: started the label and and so Janet said, she said, wow,

2111
01:47:00,439 --> 01:47:04,240
Speaker 3: you should sign them, and we thought, yeah, we should.

2112
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:07,920
Speaker 3: That's a good idea, we should sign it. And so

2113
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:09,800
Speaker 3: I remember we talked to Gary after that show and

2114
01:47:09,880 --> 01:47:11,240
Speaker 3: we said, you know, we want to make a record

2115
01:47:11,240 --> 01:47:13,960
Speaker 3: with you. Guys were starting a label. And our theory

2116
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:18,160
Speaker 3: was real simple to me, which was we wanted to

2117
01:47:18,280 --> 01:47:22,160
Speaker 3: build a big tall building. But in order to build

2118
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:24,200
Speaker 3: a big tall building, you got to dig a foundation,

2119
01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:27,920
Speaker 3: and Sounds of Blackness was our foundation. And Terry would

2120
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:31,120
Speaker 3: always say, you know, sometimes you got to give people

2121
01:47:31,960 --> 01:47:34,360
Speaker 3: not what they want, but what they need, and they

2122
01:47:34,400 --> 01:47:37,120
Speaker 3: don't know they need it until they hear it, and

2123
01:47:37,160 --> 01:47:38,600
Speaker 3: then they go, oh man, I needed this.

2124
01:47:39,479 --> 01:47:41,720
Speaker 2: Yes, And that's what Sounds of Blackness was. Now.

2125
01:47:42,240 --> 01:47:44,400
Speaker 3: It was funny because there were you know, the business

2126
01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:47,040
Speaker 3: always comes into it. So we were at A and

2127
01:47:47,160 --> 01:47:53,599
Speaker 3: M Records, and I remember A and M was still

2128
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 3: her Abalpert and Jerry Moss the original to A and

2129
01:47:56,400 --> 01:47:59,680
Speaker 3: M guys, right, and I remember doing the record, and

2130
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:03,519
Speaker 3: I remember the A and M, the guys that were

2131
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:06,800
Speaker 3: kind of running it at the time. They said we

2132
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:08,840
Speaker 3: had them. I stink Sounds of Blackness was in I

2133
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:11,280
Speaker 3: want to say Philadelphia. I want to say for like

2134
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:16,479
Speaker 3: like a conference or something. Maybe I am or something.

2135
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:18,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I am. Okay.

2136
01:48:18,520 --> 01:48:20,599
Speaker 3: So we had them there for the conference. So we said,

2137
01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:23,599
Speaker 3: and it wasn't the whole group. We had a touring group. Okay,

2138
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:26,400
Speaker 3: we had a touring group of twenty of twenty. So

2139
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:29,040
Speaker 3: we said, let's we want to take them to New

2140
01:48:29,120 --> 01:48:31,920
Speaker 3: York and you know, take them to some radio and

2141
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,080
Speaker 3: do some stuff. Optimistic had just come out as a single,

2142
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:36,280
Speaker 3: and they were like, oh, you don't have a budget

2143
01:48:36,320 --> 01:48:37,880
Speaker 3: for it. There's no budget for that. And we're like, well,

2144
01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:40,080
Speaker 3: we're already in Philadelphia. I's like, let's just go up

2145
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:42,280
Speaker 3: to New York. No, it's no budget for it. So

2146
01:48:42,360 --> 01:48:44,439
Speaker 3: we're like okay. So we just went in our pockets

2147
01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:46,000
Speaker 3: and just said here, here's what we're going to do.

2148
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 3: We're gonna go to New York. And at the time,

2149
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:51,320
Speaker 3: I can't remember. I think Frankie might have still been

2150
01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:54,880
Speaker 3: to beat BLS at the time, I can't remember, right,

2151
01:48:55,640 --> 01:48:58,160
Speaker 3: And we just called the radio stations. It's like, hey,

2152
01:48:58,160 --> 01:49:00,280
Speaker 3: it's Jam and Lewis. Can we bring a group And

2153
01:49:00,320 --> 01:49:04,000
Speaker 3: everybody was like, yeah, yeah, bring them by. And we'd

2154
01:49:04,040 --> 01:49:07,280
Speaker 3: bring them to the station and they'd sing and blow

2155
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:09,240
Speaker 3: everybody away, and then we'd be like we think we'd

2156
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:10,920
Speaker 3: be there for fifteen minutes. We'd be on there for

2157
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:13,880
Speaker 3: two hours, right, So we leave the station, the phones

2158
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:15,280
Speaker 3: would all be lighting up and stuff, and then we

2159
01:49:15,400 --> 01:49:18,320
Speaker 3: go to like what Sylvia's I think was the place

2160
01:49:18,400 --> 01:49:21,720
Speaker 3: back then, right, So we'd go to Sylvia's and we'd

2161
01:49:21,880 --> 01:49:24,720
Speaker 3: and we'd eat, you know, we'd feed everybody. But then

2162
01:49:24,760 --> 01:49:28,120
Speaker 3: they treat everybody to a show the chefs. We'd have

2163
01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:31,280
Speaker 3: the chefs and everybody come out and stuff. And right,

2164
01:49:32,240 --> 01:49:34,280
Speaker 3: So when we left New York and went back to

2165
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:37,559
Speaker 3: well to Minneapolis, actually not to LA. When we back

2166
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:43,000
Speaker 3: to Minneapolis the next week, the record got to like

2167
01:49:43,160 --> 01:49:45,760
Speaker 3: I didn't know on both whatever the two outlets were

2168
01:49:45,800 --> 01:49:48,240
Speaker 3: at the time, We're both like sixty seventy spins a week,

2169
01:49:48,439 --> 01:49:53,519
Speaker 3: like huge, and they're all going, you know, all the

2170
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:55,880
Speaker 3: marketing and all the people that they're going, what happened

2171
01:49:55,880 --> 01:49:57,920
Speaker 3: with this? What's going on with the Sounds of Blackness record?

2172
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:00,120
Speaker 3: I said, well, we took them to New York, like

2173
01:50:00,200 --> 01:50:04,160
Speaker 3: we said, and you know they have that kind of impact.

2174
01:50:04,240 --> 01:50:05,240
Speaker 3: We just need to get them out.

2175
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:15,040
Speaker 2: So I remember Herb called me and he said he said, hey, Jam,

2176
01:50:15,160 --> 01:50:19,599
Speaker 2: it's Herb And I said, oh, Herb, I said, great news, man.

2177
01:50:20,040 --> 01:50:22,680
Speaker 3: I said, we're number one most added this Sounds a

2178
01:50:22,680 --> 01:50:25,680
Speaker 3: Blackness record and for this and that you know, we

2179
01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:28,120
Speaker 3: got this many spins and we got whatever whatever. And

2180
01:50:28,200 --> 01:50:32,160
Speaker 3: Herb says, I didn't call it here that bullshit. He said,

2181
01:50:32,240 --> 01:50:36,400
Speaker 3: I called to tell you that I am so proud

2182
01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:40,519
Speaker 3: to be associated with this record, and you guys that

2183
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:44,040
Speaker 3: you brought this gift to us at A and M Records,

2184
01:50:46,160 --> 01:50:48,439
Speaker 3: And I was like wow, I said, okay, thanks man,

2185
01:50:48,680 --> 01:50:49,280
Speaker 3: he said, that's it.

2186
01:50:50,479 --> 01:50:53,640
Speaker 2: So I called SO. I called SO.

2187
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:57,080
Speaker 3: I called his girl, his assistant, who is still his

2188
01:50:57,160 --> 01:51:00,760
Speaker 3: assistant to this day, and I said, yeah, I just

2189
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 3: got a call from herb about the record.

2190
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:04,120
Speaker 2: I said, is he is he there?

2191
01:51:04,240 --> 01:51:06,120
Speaker 3: I just forgot I was going to say something to him,

2192
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:08,920
Speaker 3: and she said, well, you know, it's the funny, funniest thing.

2193
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:09,200
Speaker 2: You know.

2194
01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:13,599
Speaker 3: He drove into work and I kept thinking, why isn't

2195
01:51:13,600 --> 01:51:15,880
Speaker 3: he coming in, Like he's just sitting in his car

2196
01:51:16,080 --> 01:51:17,240
Speaker 3: and he was just listening to it.

2197
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 2: And then she said and then when he came in,

2198
01:51:20,439 --> 01:51:21,559
Speaker 2: I could tell he had been crying.

2199
01:51:23,800 --> 01:51:27,639
Speaker 3: WHOA right? And I was like wow, I said okay.

2200
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:29,680
Speaker 3: I said, okay, well thanks, don't bother him, you know,

2201
01:51:29,920 --> 01:51:33,000
Speaker 3: I said, it's all good. We spoke already whatever. She said, okay.

2202
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:38,439
Speaker 3: But the fact that that record had that impact on him,

2203
01:51:40,080 --> 01:51:43,240
Speaker 3: it said so much about to me that we were

2204
01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:45,400
Speaker 3: doing the right thing, but also that we were with

2205
01:51:45,560 --> 01:51:48,760
Speaker 3: the right partners who understood what it was we were

2206
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:50,719
Speaker 3: trying to do in our vision of what we wanted

2207
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:54,440
Speaker 3: to do and what we wanted the record company to be. Unfortunately,

2208
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,280
Speaker 3: PolyGram came in and bought him out, cashed him out

2209
01:51:58,280 --> 01:52:00,240
Speaker 3: for I don't know, three hundred million or whatever he was,

2210
01:52:01,240 --> 01:52:04,040
Speaker 3: and what I call the new A and M, which

2211
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:10,080
Speaker 3: was Al Kafaro and Milt Olan came in and honestly,

2212
01:52:10,880 --> 01:52:15,240
Speaker 3: Milt was just a numbers guy, business affairs guy, and

2213
01:52:15,479 --> 01:52:19,760
Speaker 3: everything was about how much something costs whatever. And al

2214
01:52:20,600 --> 01:52:25,760
Speaker 3: bless his heart, was just a He inherited us, and

2215
01:52:25,840 --> 01:52:27,880
Speaker 3: he looked at our deal and saw that our deal

2216
01:52:28,040 --> 01:52:30,040
Speaker 3: was against his bottom line because our deal was it

2217
01:52:30,160 --> 01:52:32,479
Speaker 3: was a huge deal because Herb and Jerry were like

2218
01:52:32,600 --> 01:52:34,600
Speaker 3: we At first, they say, we can't afford you. But

2219
01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:36,920
Speaker 3: then when they knew the PolyGram money was coming, they

2220
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:38,360
Speaker 3: called and said we can afford you now.

2221
01:52:38,960 --> 01:52:39,120
Speaker 2: Right.

2222
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:43,479
Speaker 3: So it was cool and but it never was the

2223
01:52:43,560 --> 01:52:47,040
Speaker 3: same right down to the Grammys. I remember that year

2224
01:52:47,160 --> 01:52:49,720
Speaker 3: the Grammys. A and M had They were in New

2225
01:52:49,800 --> 01:52:51,400
Speaker 3: York that year and I remember A and M had,

2226
01:52:51,840 --> 01:52:53,960
Speaker 3: I think the police are staying or whatever, and show

2227
01:52:54,080 --> 01:52:56,800
Speaker 3: Crow and they had all these records that were up

2228
01:52:56,880 --> 01:52:59,479
Speaker 3: for awards. The only one that won a Grammy that

2229
01:52:59,560 --> 01:53:02,639
Speaker 3: night was the Blackness and I remember running into Milt

2230
01:53:02,680 --> 01:53:05,800
Speaker 3: Olan on the in the elevator, you know, coming down

2231
01:53:05,840 --> 01:53:09,479
Speaker 3: the stairs somewhere and uh and I said, hey, Milk,

2232
01:53:10,080 --> 01:53:13,080
Speaker 3: I said, great night, huh and he said, yeah, yeah,

2233
01:53:13,120 --> 01:53:16,800
Speaker 3: great for you guys. And I said, what do you

2234
01:53:16,840 --> 01:53:18,840
Speaker 3: mean great for you? He said, oh, great, it's great

2235
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:21,479
Speaker 3: for you. Yeah, you guys want And I said, well

2236
01:53:21,560 --> 01:53:23,920
Speaker 3: we want. I thought, we're partners. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

2237
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:27,240
Speaker 3: that's true. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And I thought, man,

2238
01:53:27,320 --> 01:53:29,519
Speaker 3: I thought, okay, so here's where we're at now. We're

2239
01:53:29,520 --> 01:53:31,480
Speaker 3: from her calling me crying.

2240
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:36,599
Speaker 2: To this and it was doomed. It was doomed mid conditions.

2241
01:53:36,600 --> 01:53:39,320
Speaker 3: I mean, the records that were successful were successful despite

2242
01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:41,479
Speaker 3: you know, the folks that were there.

2243
01:53:41,960 --> 01:53:43,000
Speaker 7: As a Christmas record.

2244
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:46,840
Speaker 3: This sounds a blast, this yeah, soul holiday, I mean,

2245
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:48,840
Speaker 3: but once again it's I mean, it was like all

2246
01:53:48,880 --> 01:53:50,680
Speaker 3: the things that we wanted to do, we just did them,

2247
01:53:51,560 --> 01:54:00,280
Speaker 3: but we who no, because this was after that. This

2248
01:54:00,520 --> 01:54:04,760
Speaker 3: was see we're talking Janet wo Divirgin in ninety three

2249
01:54:06,040 --> 01:54:11,880
Speaker 3: Sounds of Blackness. We're ninety one. So but but that

2250
01:54:12,080 --> 01:54:15,559
Speaker 3: was part of the problem is because we got asked

2251
01:54:16,280 --> 01:54:20,000
Speaker 3: why when we brought Sounds of Blackness. The question we

2252
01:54:20,120 --> 01:54:24,839
Speaker 3: were asked, not by Herb and Jerry, who Herb obviously

2253
01:54:24,880 --> 01:54:29,960
Speaker 3: loved what we brought, right, but the Al Cafaro milk

2254
01:54:30,160 --> 01:54:34,800
Speaker 3: Own regime ask we gave you all this money, why

2255
01:54:34,840 --> 01:54:38,840
Speaker 3: didn't you bring us another Janet Jackson record or bring

2256
01:54:38,960 --> 01:54:42,240
Speaker 3: us an act like Jana Jackson. And it's like, well,

2257
01:54:42,360 --> 01:54:44,840
Speaker 3: because we have a plan of what we're gonna do,

2258
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:47,960
Speaker 3: We're gonna build that. I mean, just watch what we do.

2259
01:54:48,240 --> 01:54:50,040
Speaker 3: Just let us do our thing. We know what we're doing,

2260
01:54:50,120 --> 01:54:52,320
Speaker 3: at least we think we do. But we're gonna create

2261
01:54:52,360 --> 01:54:54,480
Speaker 3: some great records for you. And so we did the

2262
01:54:55,120 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 3: we did the Sounds of Blackness record. We follow that

2263
01:54:57,440 --> 01:54:59,640
Speaker 3: up with the Men Condition record, the very first one,

2264
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:04,800
Speaker 3: first one, Yeah, meant to be meant so I'll listen

2265
01:55:04,840 --> 01:55:07,880
Speaker 3: to that record. Said there's no hits on this record.

2266
01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:13,839
Speaker 3: We said, wow, okay, So we said okay, So Sheila Eldridge,

2267
01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:16,920
Speaker 3: who you guys probably know, So Sheila. We went to

2268
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:18,520
Speaker 3: Sheila and we said, Sheila, what can we do to

2269
01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:21,040
Speaker 3: drum up some support for we got this single coming

2270
01:55:21,080 --> 01:55:23,800
Speaker 3: out pretty Brown Eyes whatever, we're breaking my heart? And

2271
01:55:23,880 --> 01:55:26,440
Speaker 3: she said, oh, let's do a uh, let's go to

2272
01:55:26,520 --> 01:55:28,880
Speaker 3: the colleges in the DC area and stuff, and we'll

2273
01:55:28,920 --> 01:55:31,560
Speaker 3: do like a video contest and whoever comes up with

2274
01:55:31,640 --> 01:55:33,360
Speaker 3: the video remember that.

2275
01:55:33,480 --> 01:55:35,520
Speaker 7: Yes, And it was a Howard Girl, the Howard Girl

2276
01:55:35,560 --> 01:55:38,400
Speaker 7: one yes, yes, but not for the second single for it.

2277
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:41,880
Speaker 2: So that was the concept.

2278
01:55:41,960 --> 01:55:43,640
Speaker 3: So Terry went out with him in like a win

2279
01:55:43,720 --> 01:55:46,440
Speaker 3: of Bago, like he was staying at like hotels and

2280
01:55:46,480 --> 01:55:47,520
Speaker 3: didn't the fax machines.

2281
01:55:47,560 --> 01:55:49,160
Speaker 2: They didn't even have fax machine at the hotel.

2282
01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:51,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, hey, man, can I send the facts to you,

2283
01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:55,160
Speaker 3: Terry Man, I ain't no facts of this roach motel.

2284
01:55:55,600 --> 01:55:56,760
Speaker 2: At the company. Yeah, you know.

2285
01:55:57,320 --> 01:55:58,880
Speaker 3: So it was like one of those kinds of things.

2286
01:55:59,120 --> 01:56:00,760
Speaker 3: So all of a sudden, I remember we're sitting in

2287
01:56:00,800 --> 01:56:05,440
Speaker 3: the marketing meeting and you know, everybody's sitting around the

2288
01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:10,680
Speaker 3: table and everybody's talking about you know, you name whatever

2289
01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:16,280
Speaker 3: Indie White act. You could sold one hundred copies somewhere. Oh,

2290
01:56:16,360 --> 01:56:20,360
Speaker 3: we sold one hundred copies in Des Moines. Yeah that's awesome. Yeah,

2291
01:56:20,400 --> 01:56:23,000
Speaker 3: and then we got sticks and Stones over here and

2292
01:56:23,080 --> 01:56:27,080
Speaker 3: they sold fifty copies in the in uh, you know,

2293
01:56:27,560 --> 01:56:28,560
Speaker 3: min not North Dakota.

2294
01:56:28,680 --> 01:56:31,440
Speaker 2: Oh that's awesome. Yeah, that's great.

2295
01:56:32,480 --> 01:56:34,760
Speaker 3: What do you guys got end of the meeting, what

2296
01:56:34,840 --> 01:56:38,600
Speaker 3: do you guys got And we said, okay, well we

2297
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:43,760
Speaker 3: have and the guy goes, oh my god, you guys

2298
01:56:43,800 --> 01:56:46,800
Speaker 3: got seventy five spins at the pop station in DC.

2299
01:56:47,560 --> 01:56:51,640
Speaker 2: What is this song? Who is this great? We're like,

2300
01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:52,440
Speaker 2: oh yeah, men.

2301
01:56:52,440 --> 01:56:56,480
Speaker 3: Condition oh my god, this record is How'd that happen?

2302
01:56:57,240 --> 01:56:59,520
Speaker 3: And I said, well, Terry got in a Winnebago and

2303
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:02,520
Speaker 3: we did a video contest and they were like, oh

2304
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:05,000
Speaker 3: my god. And the next thing you know, we had

2305
01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:10,360
Speaker 3: a top five pop record on the album with no hits. Literally,

2306
01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:13,760
Speaker 3: we had to prove ourselves over and over and over.

2307
01:57:13,880 --> 01:57:16,320
Speaker 3: No matter what we did, we came up with a

2308
01:57:16,360 --> 01:57:19,120
Speaker 3: low key record next straight to number one on the

2309
01:57:19,200 --> 01:57:19,920
Speaker 3: R and B charts.

2310
01:57:21,000 --> 01:57:21,280
Speaker 5: That's that.

2311
01:57:21,400 --> 01:57:22,800
Speaker 2: I got a thing for you. I got a thing

2312
01:57:22,920 --> 01:57:25,200
Speaker 2: for you. You know something now that you mention it.

2313
01:57:26,160 --> 01:57:29,200
Speaker 2: The first do you remember the first time we met? No?

2314
01:57:29,760 --> 01:57:34,160
Speaker 2: Oh yes, at college at that college out door. Hey,

2315
01:57:34,200 --> 01:57:37,800
Speaker 2: I forgot yes, yes, yes, what was the name India

2316
01:57:38,840 --> 01:57:44,080
Speaker 2: little Red Boot? Yes? Uh, Angel Angel, that's right, Yeah,

2317
01:57:44,160 --> 01:57:45,840
Speaker 2: I forgot that, you guys.

2318
01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:49,200
Speaker 1: And that's a thing when someone when the college promoters said, hey,

2319
01:57:50,240 --> 01:57:52,160
Speaker 1: Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis out there, they want to

2320
01:57:52,200 --> 01:57:53,880
Speaker 1: know if they can open for you guys real quick,

2321
01:57:54,080 --> 01:57:59,600
Speaker 1: and we almost lost it life. Who that's like Jimmy

2322
01:57:59,680 --> 01:58:03,440
Speaker 1: Jammin's lows want to open for us, Like we totally

2323
01:58:03,560 --> 01:58:07,000
Speaker 1: didn't get the context that it was then, and I

2324
01:58:07,160 --> 01:58:10,240
Speaker 1: was just mind blown that you guys were that accessible.

2325
01:58:10,360 --> 01:58:16,920
Speaker 1: You were like, are idols freaking promoting with your artists,

2326
01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:18,879
Speaker 1: Like I've never seen such a thing where.

2327
01:58:18,720 --> 01:58:22,360
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, we were always big believers in

2328
01:58:22,440 --> 01:58:25,080
Speaker 3: that though, because even when we knew the perspective, we

2329
01:58:25,200 --> 01:58:27,720
Speaker 3: knew we were done in perspective, our deal was almost up.

2330
01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:31,120
Speaker 2: How was the deal? Was it like for a number

2331
01:58:31,240 --> 01:58:33,720
Speaker 2: of albums that tried to play with out No, it was.

2332
01:58:33,760 --> 01:58:35,320
Speaker 3: Just it was just a number of years, and it

2333
01:58:35,440 --> 01:58:37,760
Speaker 3: kind of changed as it happened because when we first started,

2334
01:58:37,840 --> 01:58:40,040
Speaker 3: we went in just it was a joint venture and

2335
01:58:40,160 --> 01:58:42,520
Speaker 3: we went in and we basically were going to just release,

2336
01:58:42,840 --> 01:58:45,560
Speaker 3: you know, three records a year or whatever. That then

2337
01:58:45,680 --> 01:58:48,280
Speaker 3: turned in they were shutting the whole black music department

2338
01:58:48,360 --> 01:58:49,880
Speaker 3: down of A and M. There was a there was

2339
01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:52,000
Speaker 3: a whole thing where a lot of the companies started

2340
01:58:52,080 --> 01:58:55,040
Speaker 3: just losing the black music department. So what they said

2341
01:58:55,080 --> 01:58:57,160
Speaker 3: to us is, why don't you guys just take over

2342
01:58:57,240 --> 01:58:59,839
Speaker 3: the black music department, which was great because we inherited

2343
01:58:59,880 --> 01:59:02,040
Speaker 3: the Very White record, which nobody thought was a hit

2344
01:59:03,160 --> 01:59:05,840
Speaker 3: and uh yeah with a practice what you mention all

2345
01:59:05,840 --> 01:59:08,120
Speaker 3: that stuff right? And they said, oh, that's not a hit,

2346
01:59:08,240 --> 01:59:10,040
Speaker 3: and we like took it over. And the funny thing

2347
01:59:10,160 --> 01:59:11,880
Speaker 3: was we took the record over, but then when a

2348
01:59:11,960 --> 01:59:14,720
Speaker 3: record went number one, yeah it was a and m

2349
01:59:14,880 --> 01:59:18,520
Speaker 3: oh a and m yeah we did it, and we're going, okay,

2350
01:59:18,760 --> 01:59:22,880
Speaker 3: well we actually Champion didn't work that song, but okay. Anyway,

2351
01:59:22,960 --> 01:59:25,840
Speaker 3: so as we got toward the end of the deal,

2352
01:59:25,920 --> 01:59:29,920
Speaker 3: we had this group called Solo. I discovered discovered a

2353
01:59:29,960 --> 01:59:33,360
Speaker 3: Mona Street corner in New York, actually fell in love

2354
01:59:33,440 --> 01:59:36,840
Speaker 3: with him, made the record, and that was the only

2355
01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:40,320
Speaker 3: record probably I would say on an m that they

2356
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:45,040
Speaker 3: really I remember Alcafaro coming to town and saying, we

2357
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:49,000
Speaker 3: want you guys to stay and we're going to show

2358
01:59:49,000 --> 01:59:52,200
Speaker 3: you what we can do with this solo record. And

2359
01:59:52,320 --> 01:59:54,160
Speaker 3: I think we ended up doing like eight hundred thousand

2360
01:59:54,360 --> 01:59:56,720
Speaker 3: units on that record, so it was a very successful record.

2361
01:59:57,160 --> 01:59:59,720
Speaker 3: They actually got us our only time ever working with

2362
02:00:00,160 --> 02:00:04,160
Speaker 3: Hype Williams. We actually got a real video budget and

2363
02:00:04,360 --> 02:00:06,760
Speaker 3: you know, all of those things. But what we knew

2364
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:08,800
Speaker 3: we were leaving. So our whole thing was we had

2365
02:00:08,800 --> 02:00:12,320
Speaker 3: an an Nesby record, and we had the Mint record.

2366
02:00:12,160 --> 02:00:19,040
Speaker 2: With uh what kind of man would I definition? Definition

2367
02:00:19,160 --> 02:00:19,520
Speaker 2: of the band?

2368
02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:22,400
Speaker 3: So we had those records and we wanted to make

2369
02:00:22,480 --> 02:00:24,800
Speaker 3: sure that when we left, those records were set up

2370
02:00:25,080 --> 02:00:27,800
Speaker 3: as good as possible, like we can get you to

2371
02:00:27,880 --> 02:00:29,360
Speaker 3: the goal line, you guys got to get it over

2372
02:00:29,400 --> 02:00:30,800
Speaker 3: because we're not going to be there, but we're going

2373
02:00:30,880 --> 02:00:33,120
Speaker 3: to get it as far as we possibly can. And

2374
02:00:33,320 --> 02:00:37,360
Speaker 3: I remember we did we wanted to go visit the branches,

2375
02:00:37,480 --> 02:00:39,800
Speaker 3: right because you know there's people that are working in

2376
02:00:39,840 --> 02:00:43,120
Speaker 3: these branches, because this is still in the the physical distribution, right,

2377
02:00:43,240 --> 02:00:45,400
Speaker 3: so you're taking records to stores, you're doing this right.

2378
02:00:45,640 --> 02:00:48,080
Speaker 3: Our whole thing was, man, let's go visit these people,

2379
02:00:48,880 --> 02:00:51,440
Speaker 3: and we'll take mid Condition with us, and we'll take

2380
02:00:51,640 --> 02:00:52,880
Speaker 3: UH and Nesby with us.

2381
02:00:52,880 --> 02:00:55,480
Speaker 2: And well that's important. That was the it was the

2382
02:00:55,560 --> 02:00:57,440
Speaker 2: most important thing. Well they didn't think it was important.

2383
02:00:58,280 --> 02:01:00,120
Speaker 2: We thought it was important. So once again we've I

2384
02:01:00,160 --> 02:01:01,680
Speaker 2: asked ourselves. We just did it ourselves.

2385
02:01:02,560 --> 02:01:04,200
Speaker 3: So what we did is we went We called the

2386
02:01:04,240 --> 02:01:06,200
Speaker 3: brand and the branches were like, what do you mean

2387
02:01:06,240 --> 02:01:07,600
Speaker 3: you want to bring them by? We said, we just

2388
02:01:07,640 --> 02:01:09,200
Speaker 3: want to bring them by. Like what time do you

2389
02:01:09,240 --> 02:01:11,000
Speaker 3: guys do lunch? You guys have like a lunch hour

2390
02:01:11,080 --> 02:01:12,520
Speaker 3: or something, you have like a lunch room or something,

2391
02:01:12,520 --> 02:01:13,480
Speaker 3: and they're like yeah, And I was like.

2392
02:01:13,480 --> 02:01:14,080
Speaker 2: Okay, we're coming.

2393
02:01:14,560 --> 02:01:16,360
Speaker 3: So the employees would all be in there eating lunch,

2394
02:01:16,400 --> 02:01:18,120
Speaker 3: we'd all bust in. We'd go, hey, we're jam and

2395
02:01:18,200 --> 02:01:19,040
Speaker 3: Lewis and whatever.

2396
02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:19,640
Speaker 2: And everybody.

2397
02:01:21,040 --> 02:01:24,680
Speaker 7: Started because started doing of course.

2398
02:01:25,120 --> 02:01:29,200
Speaker 2: Of course, because it was we did it too. It's

2399
02:01:29,280 --> 02:01:32,160
Speaker 2: important though to me it's important. It's like because how

2400
02:01:32,200 --> 02:01:33,360
Speaker 2: did you know? That was important?

2401
02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:36,160
Speaker 3: Because it was we were getting to the age of

2402
02:01:37,120 --> 02:01:40,200
Speaker 3: it was fax machines, the beginning of the Internet was happening.

2403
02:01:40,280 --> 02:01:42,360
Speaker 3: The idea of cell phones were beginning to happen. It

2404
02:01:42,440 --> 02:01:45,120
Speaker 3: was kind of the idea that you didn't you know,

2405
02:01:45,520 --> 02:01:51,040
Speaker 3: two way pages. It was the idea of personalization was

2406
02:01:51,080 --> 02:01:52,880
Speaker 3: out of it, you know, where you weren't really spending

2407
02:01:52,920 --> 02:01:58,520
Speaker 3: personal time with people, and to me, that was getting lost.

2408
02:01:58,840 --> 02:02:01,360
Speaker 3: Plus there was it's kind of this thing where the

2409
02:02:01,480 --> 02:02:05,400
Speaker 3: stars were here, but the people really in the trenches

2410
02:02:05,480 --> 02:02:07,840
Speaker 3: that were doing the work were getting no respect. And

2411
02:02:08,680 --> 02:02:10,880
Speaker 3: as people that we felt always felt we started in

2412
02:02:10,960 --> 02:02:11,440
Speaker 3: the trenches.

2413
02:02:11,520 --> 02:02:12,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm the guy.

2414
02:02:12,760 --> 02:02:14,680
Speaker 3: Remember at the beginning of our thing, I'm at the

2415
02:02:14,720 --> 02:02:16,840
Speaker 3: record store telling the guy order our thousand of these

2416
02:02:17,400 --> 02:02:20,400
Speaker 3: and we can I'm putting up my little playlist thing

2417
02:02:20,440 --> 02:02:22,320
Speaker 3: and I'm doing I mean, that was my thing, and

2418
02:02:22,400 --> 02:02:24,640
Speaker 3: Terry the same way. We were like entrepreneurs. We were

2419
02:02:24,680 --> 02:02:26,280
Speaker 3: like no, no, no, no, we got It's about the

2420
02:02:26,320 --> 02:02:30,800
Speaker 3: personal interaction where if I tell somebody this record's going

2421
02:02:30,880 --> 02:02:33,120
Speaker 3: to be a great record, they trust me because I'm

2422
02:02:33,120 --> 02:02:35,200
Speaker 3: looking in the eye and I'm saying this. So if

2423
02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:38,600
Speaker 3: we actually bring the talent to them when they're out

2424
02:02:38,680 --> 02:02:42,480
Speaker 3: there fussing with an account about you know, well we

2425
02:02:42,560 --> 02:02:45,280
Speaker 3: can only stock this many of them, and you've actually

2426
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:48,520
Speaker 3: met the person me, Yeah, it's like no, no, no,

2427
02:02:48,800 --> 02:02:49,960
Speaker 3: we met these people.

2428
02:02:50,040 --> 02:02:52,440
Speaker 2: They actually came. And what we would do is we'd visit.

2429
02:02:52,320 --> 02:02:54,920
Speaker 3: The branch during the day and then at night we

2430
02:02:54,920 --> 02:02:57,360
Speaker 3: would rent a club out and we'd have everybody come

2431
02:02:57,440 --> 02:02:59,160
Speaker 3: to the club and we'd invite you know, we'd say,

2432
02:02:59,200 --> 02:03:01,360
Speaker 3: bring your people, right, and then we do like a

2433
02:03:01,440 --> 02:03:04,360
Speaker 3: full on performance and we went to like about six

2434
02:03:04,520 --> 02:03:08,120
Speaker 3: or seven branches and we did that, and I remember

2435
02:03:08,480 --> 02:03:11,200
Speaker 3: the day or the week we left. I remember, what

2436
02:03:11,320 --> 02:03:12,920
Speaker 3: kind of man would I be? Was at number two?

2437
02:03:14,200 --> 02:03:16,080
Speaker 3: It was already set to go number one. We already

2438
02:03:16,080 --> 02:03:16,600
Speaker 3: had the spins.

2439
02:03:16,640 --> 02:03:16,960
Speaker 2: We knew.

2440
02:03:16,960 --> 02:03:20,440
Speaker 3: We were sat there Anne's record. I can't remember where

2441
02:03:20,440 --> 02:03:21,840
Speaker 3: we were at with Anne, but she was like getting

2442
02:03:21,840 --> 02:03:23,880
Speaker 3: ready to go top ten Urban like she was. She

2443
02:03:24,040 --> 02:03:27,080
Speaker 3: was there, So we were good. And I remember we left,

2444
02:03:27,120 --> 02:03:29,480
Speaker 3: and I remember the next week when what kind of

2445
02:03:29,520 --> 02:03:33,160
Speaker 3: man would I be? When number one? I remember they

2446
02:03:33,400 --> 02:03:37,920
Speaker 3: called Mint because Stokely told me and they said, see

2447
02:03:37,960 --> 02:03:39,680
Speaker 3: what we can do now the jam and Lewis.

2448
02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:40,000
Speaker 2: Are off the way.

2449
02:03:40,320 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 3: Wow, I said so and we were laughed and we

2450
02:03:50,480 --> 02:03:52,280
Speaker 3: were like because I remember they were at a studio

2451
02:03:52,280 --> 02:03:54,080
Speaker 3: and we were laughing, and I said, okay, I said, well,

2452
02:03:54,200 --> 02:03:56,720
Speaker 3: just remember we were in the winnebego with y'all, So

2453
02:03:57,160 --> 02:03:59,760
Speaker 3: just just remember that when it came time to do

2454
02:03:59,880 --> 02:04:03,080
Speaker 3: that next video, they told him there was no budget

2455
02:04:03,160 --> 02:04:06,120
Speaker 3: for it. And they called us right up and they said,

2456
02:04:06,520 --> 02:04:08,000
Speaker 3: they just told us there's no budget for the video.

2457
02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:09,240
Speaker 3: And I said, yeah, they used to tell us that

2458
02:04:09,320 --> 02:04:11,440
Speaker 3: all the time. They said well, our videos got made.

2459
02:04:11,440 --> 02:04:12,680
Speaker 3: I said, yeah, because we took the money out of

2460
02:04:12,680 --> 02:04:13,800
Speaker 3: our pocket and major videos.

2461
02:04:14,640 --> 02:04:14,800
Speaker 5: You know.

2462
02:04:15,560 --> 02:04:18,000
Speaker 2: So that's what we that's what we dealt with.

2463
02:04:18,400 --> 02:04:21,680
Speaker 1: And and you know, can I ask though, so we

2464
02:04:22,160 --> 02:04:25,200
Speaker 1: we did an episode with Babyface and he explained that

2465
02:04:26,720 --> 02:04:30,000
Speaker 1: the only way for le Face to really be successful

2466
02:04:30,120 --> 02:04:34,920
Speaker 1: was that those two had to separate. And you know,

2467
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:41,800
Speaker 1: Antonio stopped producing and become full time CEO of the label.

2468
02:04:42,200 --> 02:04:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2469
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:46,280
Speaker 1: Was there at any point where you thought, Okay, I'm

2470
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:48,640
Speaker 1: gonna handle all the music or you handle all the

2471
02:04:48,760 --> 02:04:52,680
Speaker 1: music and I'm gonna go be Barry Gordy.

2472
02:04:53,360 --> 02:04:55,839
Speaker 2: Or Clarence Yeah president.

2473
02:04:56,320 --> 02:05:01,440
Speaker 3: Never, Yeah, never, because that would have been Terry. Terry

2474
02:05:01,440 --> 02:05:04,720
Speaker 3: would have been the Barry Gordy. And he didn't want

2475
02:05:04,760 --> 02:05:07,760
Speaker 3: to do it. He liked doing music too much. He

2476
02:05:08,040 --> 02:05:11,240
Speaker 3: has the business mind and all of that to do it,

2477
02:05:11,280 --> 02:05:13,080
Speaker 3: and he would sit on the marketing calls and sit

2478
02:05:13,160 --> 02:05:15,400
Speaker 3: on the promotion calls. I mean it was great because

2479
02:05:15,440 --> 02:05:18,680
Speaker 3: we learned. I mean, when we inherited the music department,

2480
02:05:19,600 --> 02:05:24,040
Speaker 3: we learned every facet of the record company business, which

2481
02:05:24,160 --> 02:05:29,200
Speaker 3: was fantastic. That was great. But we talked about it.

2482
02:05:29,280 --> 02:05:31,880
Speaker 3: It was about one of the shortest conversations we probably

2483
02:05:31,960 --> 02:05:34,400
Speaker 3: ever had. And it's like, Terry, would you ever think

2484
02:05:34,440 --> 02:05:35,240
Speaker 3: that you would want to know?

2485
02:05:36,040 --> 02:05:37,760
Speaker 2: That's it? That was basically it.

2486
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:41,360
Speaker 3: I mean that literally, that was basically the conversation because yeah, no,

2487
02:05:41,440 --> 02:05:43,360
Speaker 3: he had no interest in doing that. He loved making

2488
02:05:43,440 --> 02:05:46,840
Speaker 3: music too much, and so no, we never really had that.

2489
02:05:47,120 --> 02:05:51,200
Speaker 3: That conversation and talking about perspective the thing. The thing

2490
02:05:51,280 --> 02:05:54,480
Speaker 3: I remember too that I always thought, always felt very

2491
02:05:54,480 --> 02:05:57,960
Speaker 3: proud of and this includes La to this day when

2492
02:05:58,080 --> 02:06:02,440
Speaker 3: La talks about because the Face was very successful label,

2493
02:06:03,920 --> 02:06:08,240
Speaker 3: but La to this day says to me, like, man,

2494
02:06:08,400 --> 02:06:11,680
Speaker 3: y'all were like the label that everybody wanted to be

2495
02:06:12,480 --> 02:06:15,960
Speaker 3: because y'all had sounds of blackness, like you had like

2496
02:06:16,120 --> 02:06:19,480
Speaker 3: a real group that meant something, and you had, you know,

2497
02:06:19,600 --> 02:06:22,360
Speaker 3: men condition like a real band, like the last real

2498
02:06:22,480 --> 02:06:23,360
Speaker 3: band that.

2499
02:06:23,520 --> 02:06:26,200
Speaker 2: Was out there. And I remember.

2500
02:06:27,400 --> 02:06:32,960
Speaker 3: That other companies would call for our stuff, like our

2501
02:06:33,080 --> 02:06:35,280
Speaker 3: promotion people and that you know, would be like, hey,

2502
02:06:35,320 --> 02:06:36,880
Speaker 3: can you send me such and such and such as

2503
02:06:37,240 --> 02:06:39,360
Speaker 3: we go who's that? Oh that's so on so over

2504
02:06:39,360 --> 02:06:41,600
Speaker 3: at Atlantic or that's so and so over whatever, Like

2505
02:06:41,760 --> 02:06:45,640
Speaker 3: the other labels had more respect for our product than

2506
02:06:45,720 --> 02:06:46,120
Speaker 3: our own.

2507
02:06:48,360 --> 02:06:49,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

2508
02:06:49,960 --> 02:06:52,200
Speaker 3: So, I mean, it was it was a crazy time

2509
02:06:52,280 --> 02:06:54,720
Speaker 3: and you know, but but it's you know, it's about partnership.

2510
02:06:54,800 --> 02:06:57,160
Speaker 3: You know, there's a reason me and Terry get along

2511
02:06:57,760 --> 02:07:00,600
Speaker 3: and and and we've been together for for I've known

2512
02:07:00,720 --> 02:07:03,680
Speaker 3: term for forty five years, and there's a reason why.

2513
02:07:04,360 --> 02:07:08,560
Speaker 3: There's also a reason why a partnership with Herb and

2514
02:07:08,640 --> 02:07:11,879
Speaker 3: Jerry would have been great. We had a potential partnership

2515
02:07:12,040 --> 02:07:13,640
Speaker 3: that we thought we were gonna have with Doug Morris,

2516
02:07:13,680 --> 02:07:16,320
Speaker 3: and then Doug Morris got kicked way upstairs at Universal.

2517
02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:19,040
Speaker 3: But Doug Morris used to be like somebody we really

2518
02:07:19,120 --> 02:07:21,600
Speaker 3: vibed with. He had a piano in his office. He

2519
02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:26,120
Speaker 3: was great music's music. Yes, yes, that's what I didn't know.

2520
02:07:26,360 --> 02:07:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, he was And that was the great.

2521
02:07:28,760 --> 02:07:29,360
Speaker 2: That was cool.

2522
02:07:29,360 --> 02:07:32,840
Speaker 3: And when when back when we mentioned a little red

2523
02:07:32,920 --> 02:07:37,120
Speaker 3: boat and when you talk about Angel Grant, that was

2524
02:07:37,280 --> 02:07:41,080
Speaker 3: when we did the label with Universal. That was the

2525
02:07:41,160 --> 02:07:44,000
Speaker 3: whole thing. That was Doug Morris's thing. And Doug loved

2526
02:07:44,040 --> 02:07:47,000
Speaker 3: Angel Grant and he said, I love this girl. I

2527
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:49,080
Speaker 3: really get it. This is going to be great. And

2528
02:07:49,200 --> 02:07:50,800
Speaker 3: he would fly when he was flying from LA to

2529
02:07:50,880 --> 02:07:53,720
Speaker 3: New York, he'd stop through Minneapolis along the way, listened

2530
02:07:53,720 --> 02:07:53,920
Speaker 3: to the.

2531
02:07:53,960 --> 02:07:56,280
Speaker 2: Sessions, that kind of thing. So he was into it.

2532
02:07:58,720 --> 02:08:01,600
Speaker 3: Around the time the record came came out, he got

2533
02:08:01,720 --> 02:08:04,760
Speaker 3: kicked way upstairs to the head right because this whole

2534
02:08:04,800 --> 02:08:08,800
Speaker 3: thing was Universal was just a little boutique label, and

2535
02:08:09,000 --> 02:08:10,760
Speaker 3: his whole thing was I'm gonna show people how to

2536
02:08:10,840 --> 02:08:12,360
Speaker 3: make a label. This is how you're going to do

2537
02:08:12,400 --> 02:08:14,200
Speaker 3: a label. And so we were part of that kind

2538
02:08:14,240 --> 02:08:17,360
Speaker 3: of master plan that he had. So when that happened,

2539
02:08:17,360 --> 02:08:19,800
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, now we're dealing once again with

2540
02:08:19,960 --> 02:08:25,520
Speaker 3: the business affairs guy. No, it wasn't Monty. He was

2541
02:08:25,760 --> 02:08:28,840
Speaker 3: like the attorney and stuff. He like ran stuff for

2542
02:08:28,880 --> 02:08:32,240
Speaker 3: a while and it was super nice guy, but just

2543
02:08:32,320 --> 02:08:34,000
Speaker 3: no offense. He just wasn't the music guy. Like we

2544
02:08:34,080 --> 02:08:36,000
Speaker 3: got into it to be like with another music guy

2545
02:08:36,760 --> 02:08:39,560
Speaker 3: and that didn't happen. So, you know, it's just trying

2546
02:08:39,600 --> 02:08:41,760
Speaker 3: to it's it's it's all about the partnerships and and

2547
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:44,040
Speaker 3: and the relationships. At the end of the day, it

2548
02:08:44,080 --> 02:08:46,160
Speaker 3: doesn't really matter what the label is if if it's

2549
02:08:46,200 --> 02:08:48,600
Speaker 3: the right people in there, it's anywhere as a great

2550
02:08:48,800 --> 02:08:50,440
Speaker 3: home if it's the right people.

2551
02:08:50,520 --> 02:08:53,760
Speaker 2: But sometimes it's just not and then you find yourself.

2552
02:08:55,720 --> 02:08:58,760
Speaker 3: You know, you're just you just spinning your wheels basically

2553
02:08:58,800 --> 02:09:00,720
Speaker 3: because you're working really hard on something that you really

2554
02:09:00,760 --> 02:09:03,400
Speaker 3: believe in. But if the people aren't believing it with you,

2555
02:09:03,560 --> 02:09:06,200
Speaker 3: then nothing's gonna happen with it doesn't really matter who

2556
02:09:06,280 --> 02:09:06,480
Speaker 3: you are.

2557
02:09:08,040 --> 02:09:10,240
Speaker 2: And that's it for part two of our conversation with

2558
02:09:10,400 --> 02:09:12,280
Speaker 2: Jimmy Jam. Thank you for tuning in. Guys.

2559
02:09:12,600 --> 02:09:15,080
Speaker 1: Join us next week for the third and final installment,

2560
02:09:15,600 --> 02:09:21,760
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme. Flight Time Trilogy with Jimmy Jam. Quest

2561
02:09:21,840 --> 02:09:25,760
Speaker 1: Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode

2562
02:09:25,880 --> 02:09:32,160
Speaker 1: was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts

2563
02:09:32,200 --> 02:09:36,520
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

2564
02:09:36,600 --> 02:09:37,880
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.