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Speaker 1: Loka to Our Radio is a radiophonic novela, which.

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Speaker 2: Is just a very extra way of saying a podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm fiosa fem.

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Speaker 3: And I am Ma la munios.

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Speaker 2: We're podcasting through another Trump election year. We've been podcasting

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Speaker 2: through election years, a global pandemic, civic unrest, political controversies,

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Speaker 2: the Me Too movement, the rise of TikTok, and we

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Speaker 2: are still here.

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Speaker 3: We're not done telling stories.

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Speaker 1: We're still making podcasts. We're older, we're wiser, We're even

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Speaker 1: podcasting through a new decade of our lives.

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Speaker 2: Since twenty sixteen, we've been making locatrot Our Radio independently

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Speaker 2: until we joined iHeartMedia's Michael Dura Network in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: From Our Lips to Your Ears, Fall in love with

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Speaker 1: Locata Radio like you never have before.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Season nine, Love at First Listen, O.

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Speaker 1: La La Loka Motives. Welcome to Season nine of Loka

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Speaker 1: Thought Our Radio. I'm Viosa and I'm Mala. Loka Thought

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Speaker 1: Our Radio is a podcast dedicated to archiving our present

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Speaker 1: and shifting the culture forward. You're tuning in to Gapitlo

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Speaker 1: doses two oh six.

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Speaker 2: Last Time on Loka Thought Our Radio. We had our

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Speaker 2: biosa Vise and my last BA Labra segment episode. Make

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Speaker 2: sure to check it out and share with a friend.

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Speaker 1: Today, we have another amazing guest joining the show. Our

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Speaker 1: episode today will be highlighting astrology and how to use

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Speaker 1: it as a tool for social change, and we also

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Speaker 1: talk about power and some cults and it gets really good.

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Speaker 3: In my opinion, it's a deep one. It's a good one.

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Speaker 3: Do not stop listening.

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Speaker 1: So about our guests, Lisa Nakazawa. She's an Oakland based writer, producer, podcaster,

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Speaker 1: and astrologer. She is currently the host for Stars and

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Speaker 1: Stars with Issa, a weekly podcast where she sits with

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Speaker 1: the most talented artists and thinkers of our time. She

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Speaker 1: is going to talk to us about everything astrology and

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Speaker 1: like we said, how we can use it as a

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Speaker 1: tool for social change. Okay, Lisa, can you introduce yourself

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Speaker 1: to all of our listeners.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Hi, listeners, I'm Asa Akazala and I'm a host

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Speaker 4: of a new podcast called Stars and Stars of Lisa.

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Speaker 4: It's an astrology pod, and I'm also a practicing astrologer,

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Speaker 4: and i have an additional job where I'm the director

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Speaker 4: of Community Engagement at BEAYVAC Media, which stands for Bay

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Speaker 4: Area Video Coalition, and I've been at that organization for

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Speaker 4: over four years now and we help resource independent filmmakers.

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Speaker 2: Fabulous love it. So can you tell us about your

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Speaker 2: journey into astrology? When were you first drawn to the stars.

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Speaker 5: I feel like I need to pay y'all to help

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Speaker 5: me like tighten up my.

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Speaker 4: A journey to astrology because it's such a nonlinear journey,

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Speaker 4: and when I hear myself in interviews, I'm like, girl'll

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Speaker 4: tighten it up.

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Speaker 5: But the reality is like I always.

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Speaker 4: Had both an intrigue and repulsion dynam with spirituality growing up.

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Speaker 5: I love ritualistic spaces.

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Speaker 4: I remember growing up I would go to a church,

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Speaker 4: like a Protestant church with my family, and I just

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Speaker 4: loved having a ritualistic space, Like the actual environment was

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Speaker 4: really beautiful and just the structure felt so sacred.

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Speaker 5: But I was also politicized.

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Speaker 4: Really young, which just means that I came into like

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Speaker 4: a political understanding of the world really young, and so

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Speaker 4: of course became really aware very young how religion has

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Speaker 4: been used as an opia in a mechanism of control,

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Speaker 4: and so it was really hard for me to untether

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Speaker 4: spirituality from that history, and then later in life I

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Speaker 4: started to around, Like in my twenties, I started to

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Speaker 4: have girlfriends who are really into tarot in astrology, and

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Speaker 4: I feel like homegirls are always this all chemical space

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Speaker 4: of learning, especially when you graduate college and you start

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Speaker 4: learning together, and a lot of them, you know, would

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Speaker 4: talk about astrology here and there, and then I would

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Speaker 4: kind of do my own research, which was a big

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Speaker 4: theme in my life. And around twenty eighteen I started

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Speaker 4: getting really interested and just learning about it, which I

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Speaker 4: always encouraged people, right, like, digging into our curiosities is

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Speaker 4: not a commitment to a belief. It's just learning and

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Speaker 4: following where your curiosities are. And I find astrology. I

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Speaker 4: don't know how you all feel, but astrology, once you

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Speaker 4: scratch the surface, is really dense. And that really interested

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Speaker 4: me because I'm a big nerd, and so I was like, oh,

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Speaker 4: this is so cool. It's so complicated, and so I

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Speaker 4: started getting really into all the different houses. And when

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Speaker 4: I started to get into the houses and the more

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Speaker 4: complex start things of astrology, that's when my interest got

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Speaker 4: really pronounced. I think the horoscopic astrology kind of lost

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Speaker 4: me because I'm not really big into prescriptions or labels,

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Speaker 4: and so that actually was pretty off putting for me.

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Speaker 4: But then thinking about the cosmos as this gateway for

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Speaker 4: complexity was like, yes, I'm into that part, and then

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Speaker 4: I just what. I really went in on research on

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Speaker 4: my own and found some companions to help me, and

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Speaker 4: then I eventually started my own practice in like twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty with reading for clients, and then that really showed

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Speaker 4: me that I have a deep love for it. And

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Speaker 4: so it's again super hard to summarize, but yeah, I

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Speaker 4: think it just started with being curious very so far.

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Speaker 5: Yeah led me to a podcast very cool.

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Speaker 1: I love that so much, and I think that was

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Speaker 1: so concise and linears, So I think that you have

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Speaker 1: it down and I love that you mentioned you initially

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Speaker 1: mentioned there being a church, right and liking the ritual

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Speaker 1: aspect of it, and then you know, being politicized, and

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of us, a lot of our

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Speaker 1: listeners can identify with that. And I also feel that

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Speaker 1: that's why in my experience, queer people gravitate to astrology,

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Speaker 1: because if we've grown up in the church or we

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Speaker 1: grew up with some type of religious background, it's something

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Speaker 1: that we can find comfort in but we know that

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Speaker 1: that's not necessarily a place for us, and so we

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Speaker 1: gravitate to astrology because there's this like community based in there,

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Speaker 1: and there's this spirituality that we can tap into and

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Speaker 1: connect to. And that's one of my beliefs as to why,

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Speaker 1: like all the queers are into astrology, Right, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of like the ongoing joke, But I think there's actually

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Speaker 1: something really deep there. I think there's this like search

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Speaker 1: for belonging, this search for understanding ourselves and the cosmos.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really profound. Yeah, And I think queerness also

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Speaker 4: as like a political orientation, is always interested in like

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Speaker 4: troubling power, and so I think I think like the

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Speaker 4: way that I like to use astrology is in the

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Speaker 4: same spirit of that, where it's like, how can astrology

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Speaker 4: be I've been saying this phrase that I feel like

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Speaker 4: might not land for people, but like, how can astrology

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Speaker 4: help us unknow ourselves instead of being like another kind

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Speaker 4: of regime of like you're so that, which is very

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Speaker 4: fun and cute, but I think at times can also

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Speaker 4: be very not queer. If we're being honest, like, then

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Speaker 4: that can just make us better consumers and it can

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Speaker 4: get us so much deeper into consumer capitalism because now

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Speaker 4: astrology is so huge, like it arguably couldn't be bigger,

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Speaker 4: which has you know, I think it has some positive effects,

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Speaker 4: and then it also has the effects of Like I

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Speaker 4: think any spiritual worker right now who has a public

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Speaker 4: platform needs to be really on point because you can

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Speaker 4: easily pure spirituality.

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Speaker 5: Can be used against you right now.

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Speaker 4: So I think it's also a tricky time to be

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Speaker 4: a practitioner in public because of that.

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Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, We'll be right back.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think we want to get deeper into that

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Speaker 2: as the interview continues, And just I love how you

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Speaker 2: talk about the complexities and really digging deep into astrology

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Speaker 2: as a practice and what it all means. I feel

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Speaker 2: like a lot of people when they first hear about

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Speaker 2: or think about astrology, they think it's like woo woo

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Speaker 2: o wah, you know, we wah, like it could be right,

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Speaker 2: but it's also there's a science to it and it

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Speaker 2: can be a tool for social change. Can you talk

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Speaker 2: to us a little bit about like finding the core

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Speaker 2: of astrology and like it's many uses for humanity?

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Speaker 5: Totally?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think two things come to mind.

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Speaker 4: One is the Carl Sagan quote and he you know,

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Speaker 4: Carl Sagan was not an astrologer, not a believer, but

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Speaker 4: he has this quote I love invoking, which is the

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Speaker 4: nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the

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Speaker 4: iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies

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Speaker 4: were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are

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Speaker 4: made of star stuff. And I quote that because the

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Speaker 4: cosmos are not just a metaphor, we are actually made

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Speaker 4: of star stuff. And so I think that's always like

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Speaker 4: a compelling place to start for people who are really skeptical,

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Speaker 4: is that there's always an assumption that we're speaking at

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Speaker 4: this like really abstract metaphysical level, and we are and

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Speaker 4: we're not. And so I think at a base level

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Speaker 4: there's something really deep about acknowledging that we are not

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Speaker 4: just like, yeah, I guess a metaphor for the cosmos,

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Speaker 4: but we are them. And so that lack of separation

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Speaker 4: between us and the natural world, I think is itself

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Speaker 4: quite political. So I just wanted to start there. And

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Speaker 4: then also, yeah, I'm reading do either of you like

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Speaker 4: Prentice hemepill or.

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Speaker 1: No, not familiar, No tell us more.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're just an incredible like writer and author and organizer,

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Speaker 4: and they have this kind of similar background to me

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Speaker 4: in terms of I mean there, I don't want to

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Speaker 4: put us in the same breath, but like they have

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Speaker 4: the same background in the sense of being in organizing

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Speaker 4: and activist spaces and also in healing spaces, and I

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Speaker 4: think if you've been in both, sometimes you feel fractured

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Speaker 4: because you can feel like there's like, on the one hand,

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Speaker 4: political spaces can be really skeptical of healing spaces, like, no,

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Speaker 4: we need to contend with reality, we need to show

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Speaker 4: up here and now, and like they're really quick to

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Speaker 4: talk about spiritual bypassing, which is a phrase about like

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Speaker 4: don't use spirituality to cop out, like come, show up,

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Speaker 4: fight back, be here. And then often healing spaces, their

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Speaker 4: rhetoric is like or their retort rather is like if

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Speaker 4: we don't heal ourselves, we can't heal the world. And

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Speaker 4: I Prentice has a new book called What it Takes

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Speaker 4: to Heal, How Transforming Ourselves can Change the World, which

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Speaker 4: really kind of tackles the question you just pose, and

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Speaker 4: I really recommend it because it goes in depth on

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Speaker 4: this question. But I totally echo their premise, which is

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Speaker 4: this idea that they've come to understand, and I have

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Speaker 4: two in my lived experience that it's actually both social

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Speaker 4: transformation and personal transformation happening simultaneously. That's the key to

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Speaker 4: answer your question. That, to me is where the nexus lives. Like,

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Speaker 4: I really don't feel comfortable saying that astrology on its

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Speaker 4: own and as an isolated practice can really be like

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Speaker 4: a revolutionary tool. I think that would be quite an exaggeration,

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Speaker 4: and I think I've kind of made that claim accidentally before,

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Speaker 4: But I really think I'm in a stage of life

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Speaker 4: where I want to be more precise because I think

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Speaker 4: it really helps all of us in our practice. So

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Speaker 4: I think for me, it's like this, this this commitment

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Speaker 4: to both, like if we don't. And there's this quote

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Speaker 4: that I wrote that I thought was really concise, where

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Speaker 4: Apprentice says, oh time, I have come to understand that

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Speaker 4: social transformation, the push for more just systems and policies,

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Speaker 4: and personal transformation, healing our own trauma and reshaping our

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Speaker 4: relationships have to happen together, not one or the other,

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Speaker 4: but both. We neglect ourselves our own growth rush in

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Speaker 4: our rush to change what is external, and when we do,

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Speaker 4: we fracture and succumb to what we are unwilling to face.

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Speaker 5: And so if.

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Speaker 4: Anything, astrology is that tool that helps us face what

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Speaker 4: we are unwilling to And I think that astrology can

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Speaker 4: often be not just an individual tool, but a collective

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Speaker 4: one in the same way taro is, where it requires

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Speaker 4: participation from like a reader and a quarrent or a

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Speaker 4: group of homegirls or whatever it is, like, it can

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Speaker 4: be this collective tool. So I really want to emphasize

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Speaker 4: in this conversation that I think it requires both to

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Speaker 4: really be considered social transformation.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate the way that you bring in the

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Speaker 2: text and that nuance. I think that there's this pressure

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Speaker 2: if you are an activist or activists minded or socially

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Speaker 2: aware or in favor of more just systems, that there's

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Speaker 2: almost this pressure that everything that we're touching is like

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Speaker 2: in service of revolution or social justice, when it simply

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Speaker 2: cannot be the case that every single thing that we

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Speaker 2: do in touch is in service of social justice. So

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Speaker 2: I appreciate that you bringing that nuance in.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I really

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Speaker 4: like how you said that, and I do think that

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Speaker 4: you know something that.

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Speaker 5: Anyone who knows me well knows.

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Speaker 4: I'm really big into just being aware of what we're

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Speaker 4: arguing because I think what you just said kind of

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Speaker 4: releases some of that pressure. But I think if you're

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Speaker 4: gonna say this is a revolutionary tool, you need to

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Speaker 4: kind of elaborate on how that actually connects. And I

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Speaker 4: maybe people say that because they feel the pressure you're naming,

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Speaker 4: Like maybe people feel like they have to say that

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Speaker 4: on the internet or say that in all their interviews

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Speaker 4: because that's kind of the cachet of the day. And

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Speaker 4: I think that what you just said is kind of

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Speaker 4: reclaiming our right to have practices that don't ultimately always

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Speaker 4: end up being these revolutionary tools. But I do think

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Speaker 4: they have incredible potentiality. It's just I think we should

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Speaker 4: not exaggerate what that is because then we get kind of, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I think then it kind of like

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Speaker 4: undermines it ultimately totally totally.

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Speaker 2: And I think something else that we've seen is this

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Speaker 2: may be just tangentially related, but there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: like scammers who pretend to be astrologists and tarot card

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Speaker 2: readers and offer services, and they're sliding into dms and

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Speaker 2: pretending to be people they're not, and I think that

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Speaker 2: they do that also because there is a power in

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Speaker 2: what in the astrology and in the tarot, or else

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Speaker 2: they wouldn't be pretending.

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Speaker 3: To be those people, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 4: I know I don't have all these ideas fleshed out,

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Speaker 4: but it's interesting to think about, like the rebellion towards

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Speaker 4: Enlightenment philosophy and also God and like this kind of

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Speaker 4: orthodox religion, and then people looking for this kind of

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Speaker 4: alternate form of spirituality. But then we are living in

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Speaker 4: like a very isolated time. So people want to feel

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Speaker 4: surrendered and connected to something bigger than themselves, and that

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Speaker 4: is such a beautiful want, and yet it makes us

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Speaker 4: also extremely vulnerable. So I think that's just like a

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Speaker 4: paradox that I don't think I have to personally answer,

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Speaker 4: but it makes me want to be very ethical in

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Speaker 4: my practice because I can sense that vulnerability in myself.

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Speaker 5: I'm not above that.

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Speaker 4: Certainly, and I honored that part of me that wants

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Speaker 4: to be part of something vaster and more connected than

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Speaker 4: the narrow things that I've been told I should want

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Speaker 4: to identify as. So I think there's something pure and

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Speaker 4: beautiful at the center of that. But we have to

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Speaker 4: be honest that it also makes us so vulnerable to

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Speaker 4: scammers or another thing that I worry about is being

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Speaker 4: really vulnerable to like I don't trust myself, ESO, what

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Speaker 4: should I do?

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Speaker 5: Should I move? Should I break up with him?

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Speaker 3: Should I?

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Speaker 4: And it's like, oh, don't give anyone that power. That's right,

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Speaker 4: that's my personal opinion. That's a great point.

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Speaker 1: How do you address that with clients that come to

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Speaker 1: you for reading and you know, of course we have

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Speaker 1: the specific question, and then it can be a question

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Speaker 1: like exactly what you just said, like do I dump him?

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Speaker 3: Do I move?

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Speaker 1: Do I quit my job? And so then how do

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Speaker 1: you navigate knowing you have this power but also are

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Speaker 1: really trying to be ethical in the way that you

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Speaker 1: use it.

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Speaker 4: A lot of astrologers use pre materials or are really explicit,

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Speaker 4: especially like experienced astrologers use their website as a space

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Speaker 4: to kind of clarify and disclaim.

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Speaker 5: How they approach the practice.

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Speaker 4: And I really suggest that if you're looking for an

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Speaker 4: astrologer not to rush that process. Really find a good fit,

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Speaker 4: as if you were looking for a therapist or any

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Speaker 4: other teacher. Find out how they approach it, what their

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Speaker 4: actual like how system is like ask questions, you know,

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Speaker 4: make sure it's a good fit. And it's always a

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Speaker 4: great sign if an astrologer has testimonials, you know, like

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Speaker 4: kind of do your due diligence. You don't have to

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Speaker 4: be extra about it. But that's what I do, you know,

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Speaker 4: I try and provide testimonials. It's touch points of trust.

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Speaker 4: I try and disclaim that I'm not a predictive astrologer.

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Speaker 4: If in a reading, even though I've set all that

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Speaker 4: up top, those questions start to pop up.

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Speaker 5: I'm not rude about it.

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Speaker 4: I just try and gently, you know, kind of nudge

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Speaker 4: them back to their inner wisdom, which I think is

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Speaker 4: a you know, a talented practitioner. You almost leave a

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Speaker 4: session not thinking about me. It's like you leave being like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I kind of led myself to this decision, as opposed

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Speaker 4: to thinking, oh, Lisa's got the answers right. So it

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Speaker 4: happens all the time, and I try and just reframe

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Speaker 4: the session or the question so that the wisdom is

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Speaker 4: back within them, because I actually think when you do

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Speaker 4: astrology right, the most powerful thing about our birth chart

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Speaker 4: is that it's a map of something that already resides

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Speaker 4: within us. So in a capitalistic society where the whole

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Speaker 4: idea is to make us as vulnerable and inadequate as possible,

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Speaker 4: so that we need to constantly optimize, astrology can be

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Speaker 4: that antidote to optimization, which is there's already this inner

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Speaker 4: reserve of wisdom within you and resourcefulness, and if you

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Speaker 4: can tap into it, then you actually are powerful all along.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more of our interview with Lisa.

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Speaker 3: I love that so much.

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Speaker 1: And have you heard of like the red string theory?

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Speaker 5: I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: No. Is that what it's called, Mala where it's like

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Speaker 1: we've we've talked about this before online, you and I

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Speaker 1: let me let me refresh. Yeah, I think the red

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Speaker 1: string theory is like there's someone that was put in

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Speaker 1: your life and you meet them like at the point

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Speaker 1: that you were supposed to, but like maybe they were

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Speaker 1: in the background at some point in your life, right,

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Speaker 1: And so mal and I have discussed that about our

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Speaker 1: relationship and like how we we like grew up in

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Speaker 1: the same area we grew up. We actually have mutual

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Speaker 1: like gonna see that as like people that we know.

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Speaker 1: And then we ran cross country in high school, not together,

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Speaker 1: but we were like at these same places, and then

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Speaker 1: it took years for us to finally meet in person,

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Speaker 1: and so I feel like there's like that synergy there

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Speaker 1: right between us. We were able to build like a

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Speaker 1: business and a collaboration without knowing each other that well,

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Speaker 1: but there was, like I think a lot of trust already.

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Speaker 1: So we got this question the other day about a

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Speaker 1: sinistry reading and if we have ever had one, and

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Speaker 1: we haven't, and so I think we're like a little

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Speaker 1: interested in that, and I know we're not doing that

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Speaker 1: right now, but I just wanted to pose this question

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Speaker 1: to you, like how can people maybe use a sinistry

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Speaker 1: reading as a tool for like getting into collaborative partnerships

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Speaker 1: or like getting into relationships, and like how do we

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Speaker 1: really what do we do with that information? And what

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Speaker 1: is and what is a sinister I.

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Speaker 2: Had never I had never heard the word before, And

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Speaker 2: a listener asked us if we have had a sinistry

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Speaker 2: reading between the two of us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, first of all, that's such a beautiful story

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Speaker 4: or very moving and I love the idea of like

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Speaker 4: parallel lines that then meet. Yeah, so there's there's two

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Speaker 4: sinistry readings that I provide one, so sinistry can be

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Speaker 4: just simply defined as understanding how to birth charts interact,

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Speaker 4: so like the points of harmony, the points of tension.

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Speaker 4: But I want you to think of two distinct birth

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Speaker 4: charts interacting, so that would be like a sinistry chart reading.

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Speaker 4: So I would look at yours, I would look at yours,

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Speaker 4: and then I would look at how those individual charts interact.

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Speaker 5: Does that make sense? And like converse. A composite chart

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Speaker 5: is really cool.

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Speaker 4: To me because it's calculated by the midpoints of the

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Speaker 4: two charts, and it's essentially a birth chart for this

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Speaker 4: third thing, which is an embodied relationship. So it's a

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Speaker 4: birth chart for the relationship, and it's calculated simply through

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Speaker 4: the midpoints of your Sun Moon Venus Mars Mercury. And

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Speaker 4: the reason I love composite charts is because they're blended

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Speaker 4: energies and I've I've done a lot of couple readings,

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Speaker 4: which I am very obsessed with and I love. And

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Speaker 4: the reason I think composite charts are so poetic is

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Speaker 4: because it takes us out of kind of a both

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Speaker 4: a place of blame and a place of self overly

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Speaker 4: self knowing where it's this third creative act of our

394
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Speaker 4: combined energy, so we're less likely to be like, you're

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Speaker 4: so like that, I'm so always like this, which I

396
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Speaker 4: imagine couple's therapists deal with a lot, right, because we

397
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Speaker 4: all do that.

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Speaker 5: Like, yeah, you always you always do that. In our relationship.

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Speaker 4: It could be a friendship, a collaboration, like you get

400
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Speaker 4: stuck in the loop of like the narrative loops, I

401
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 4: always do this, we type each other yeah and ourselves right, Oh,

402
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Speaker 4: you're right, I'm always so angry or like, I'm always

403
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Speaker 4: so submissive. And I've found actually that narrative can be

404
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Speaker 4: both an opening and enclosure for me because I can

405
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Speaker 4: I can become super limited by my story. I'm like,

406
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Speaker 4: I'm always this, and I unfortunately am an always girl.

407
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Speaker 4: Like when i'm heighten, I'm like, you're always And so

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Speaker 4: I really just recommend composite charts too, because I think

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Speaker 4: there's something so creative about thinking about the blended energy

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Speaker 4: that is produced when two people come together. And I

411
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Speaker 4: think both are dope, but I just think there's something

412
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Speaker 4: so special and spiritual and sacred about thinking about the

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Speaker 4: embodiment of something that happens when two people interact.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well, I think we're convinced we need one. I

415
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Speaker 3: think we need one. We need a composite sinistry reading.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I would love to do it.

417
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Speaker 4: And that's cool because you know, I think to get

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Speaker 4: at one of the questions is like, I just think

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Speaker 4: there's something so if you make it more playful, there's

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Speaker 4: something that's really creative that starts to happen where you're

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Speaker 4: meaning making together, which I think is why I like

422
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Speaker 4: doing sinistry readings because it's two people and I get

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Speaker 4: to see them weave together, and I get to see

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Speaker 4: the compassion and kindness that usually comes up when one

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Speaker 4: person is more silent and stuck, and I see how

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Speaker 4: the other person is actually more likely to try and

427
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Speaker 4: like fill in the gaps as then judge them. And

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Speaker 4: so there's something about seeing holding again this point that's

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Speaker 4: going to maybe be a through line this conversation as ritual,

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Speaker 4: Like how cool is it that I get to just

431
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Speaker 4: hold this, create this container in space for two people

432
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Speaker 4: who already love each other to kind of like ask questions.

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Speaker 4: And it's not really about making bold statements, but just

434
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Speaker 4: being like, oh, like, if you think of this synistry

435
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Speaker 4: as like a topography of these two people's psyches, you

436
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 4: can just it's just like a cool poetic meaning making

437
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 4: of them being like, oh, that is a point of tension,

438
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 4: or like that is why we love each other. And

439
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 4: I think there's something really cool about understanding how we

440
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 4: have this shared energy. And then I don't know how

441
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 4: you all feel, but I think one of the powerful

442
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 4: things about therapy is that sometimes when we understand the

443
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 4: person we love is different from us, it actually helps

444
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 4: us be compassionate. Like, oh, because I love you, I

445
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 4: sometimes project that we are the same, but we're not.

446
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 4: So when I hear you tell me that. Like, one

447
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 4: thing that comes up in synatry readings all the time

448
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,479
Speaker 4: is how all of us have such different relationships to time,

449
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 4: Like some people view it as such a personal attack

450
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,239
Speaker 4: if their good friend comes late to things, and that

451
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 4: can actually as simple as that is, that can create

452
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 4: a lot of distrust and tension. And so time comes

453
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 4: up a lot in my conversations, and often with like

454
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 4: Neptunian charts, they're like, but why do you take it personally? Like,

455
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 4: my sense of time is not about disrespecting or devaluing you.

456
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 4: It's that like I follow, where I follow a spontaneity

457
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 4: that feeds me and it's like important for me to

458
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 4: feel safe to be able to follow that, and then

459
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 4: the other person is like a fixed rizing sign is like,

460
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 4: but that makes me feel like I can't rely on you,

461
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 4: and that makes me feel unsafe, And so then you

462
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 4: get to hear, oh, that makes her feel unsafe, you know,

463
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 4: Like it kind of gets you to think outside of

464
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 4: your assumptions and listen to how someone relates to time,

465
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 4: and then you get to decide what you want to

466
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 4: do with that. But I think it's it's an empathy

467
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 4: exercise and not assume that even the person you've been

468
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 4: married to for twenty years is a totally known entity.

469
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 5: I'm always like I'm on.

470
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 4: The ester parrel camp of like you're a mystery to yourself,

471
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 4: and the people in your life are a mystery to

472
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 4: you too, no matter how long.

473
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 5: You've known each other.

474
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 4: Like, if anything, maybe astrology can help people retain that

475
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 4: mystery because when I think I've known you for you know,

476
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 4: if I think that you're a known thing, then there's

477
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 4: gonna be a lot of judgment and assumption. So sinistry

478
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 4: readings are so cool for that because it's like, what

479
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 4: if we just create an element of surprise and like

480
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 4: that erotic comes back in or that curiosity comes back in,

481
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 4: which I think we all need right to like refresh

482
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 4: our our bonds.

483
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really like opening up a portal to like

484
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: continue dating each other or getting to know each other

485
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 2: again for the first time, which is very cool.

486
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to do it.

487
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 3: We have to do that. You can vince us we

488
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 3: need this.

489
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 5: I'm down.

490
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: I'm curious.

491
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: What are some common misconceptions that you have come across

492
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 2: or criticisms of a astrology in general or utilizing astrology

493
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 2: for some type of social change or greater good? And

494
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: then how do you address those criticisms?

495
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 5: Oh, great question.

496
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 4: I think one of the criticisms that's pretty common is

497
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 4: confirmation bias, Like if you tell me that I am,

498
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 4: then I think I am, and so then I become.

499
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 5: And that's fair.

500
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 4: Although again it's so it's so interesting and specific to

501
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 4: astrology because it's so dense and there's so many levels

502
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 4: to it. Like once you get into aspect astrology, which

503
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 4: is how the planets communicate, and you start looking at transits,

504
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 4: which is how the current sky interacts with your birth chart,

505
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 4: Like there's so so many points in my journey where

506
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 4: I wanted to not believe in it, you know, And

507
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 4: I always resent when people think faith is the static

508
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 4: fit thing, where it's like doubt can be part of

509
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 4: your love, doubt can be part of your practice, but

510
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 4: it's always just makes me laugh. Like I always say

511
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 4: the cosmos are the biggest troll because you'll look at

512
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 4: transits after the fact and be like, on that exact

513
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 4: day when like Saturn conjunct Mercury, like everyone's computers didn't work,

514
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 4: and like there was a certain kind of seriousness and

515
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 4: sobriety to the communication that was going out in your

516
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 4: life or in the world.

517
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 5: So I don't know.

518
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 4: I think for me, I'm very like understanding and willing

519
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 4: to engage skepticism.

520
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 5: But I think for me, I just find it bizarre when.

521
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 4: People are really rigid, like when people say, like that

522
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 4: is all ridiculous. I just don't relate to that kind

523
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 4: of like insistent that the entire thing is just make believe,

524
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 4: Like I don't really relate to that kind of level

525
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 4: of I don't know, you know, when people say hate

526
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 4: is a form of love, like that's how it comes

527
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 4: across to me, Like why are you so adamant that

528
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 4: astrology is bullshit, Like, I don't know, you seem really

529
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 4: into it in a way.

530
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, like lots of energy spent on the subject, like passion,

531
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: lots of feelings and opinions exactly.

532
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like a hater is just like a big fan

533
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 3: kind of a thing.

534
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 5: You got it, not me.

535
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 4: My home girl also always makes a joke that's so

536
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 4: funny for New Yorker's but she's like, y'all believe in

537
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 4: the Knicks.

538
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 3: So anything is possible.

539
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 5: So yeah, exactly, anything's possible.

540
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 4: Love that I don't I think like a controversial, interesting

541
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 4: one too that I was thinking about. That's maybe you're like,

542
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 4: this is totally on a tangent, But I think that

543
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 4: astrology for me feels more neutral than I once thought,

544
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 4: Like I wanted to offer some things that I don't

545
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 4: think people know, which is like Nancy Reagan was really

546
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 4: into astrology and used it a lot to make pretty

547
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 4: significant decisions in the White House. And so there has

548
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 4: been in like a gnarly history of astrology in right

549
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 4: wing politics and even in the Roman Empire, like a

550
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 4: lot of astronomers were used as kind of reinforcers or

551
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 4: like inscribers of fate for the powers that be. So

552
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 4: I think in terms of the second part of that

553
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 4: question is I would hesitate to say that astrology is

554
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 4: inherently anything because it has been used as like you know,

555
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 4: and I think you all illuminated why because it makes

556
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 4: people feel powerful. So of course people in power have

557
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 4: you know, used astrologers to kind of cement their power

558
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 4: or maybe that much power makes people feel fraudulent and

559
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: so they need to feel like it's inscribed by the

560
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 4: divine Like I don't know, I haven't been in those positions,

561
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 4: but it's an interesting correlation. Yeah, and so I would

562
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 4: just mythbust that astrology is inherently leftist or inherently anything interesting.

563
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 5: I think that.

564
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminds me we both went to Catholic schools,

565
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: and you know, there's this piece of like Catholic dogma

566
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: that the Catholic Church is basically the center of the

567
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: earth and therefore is the center of the universe and

568
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: is the one true religion. And I you know, this

569
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: is just coming up in talking about the Roman Empire,

570
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 2: and I mean, you know, the the Vatican and all

571
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: that stuff and literally situating the Church in the center

572
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: of the universe. And I'm sure that there were astrologers

573
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: back in the day that were there, you know, contributing

574
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: and coming up with this sort of ideology, and it

575
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: is something that's taught like in Catholic schools and in

576
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: Catholic teachings.

577
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 4: I did not know that, but it's making me think

578
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 4: of what is that new documentary. Maybe it's not new

579
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 4: about the TikTok church.

580
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, it's like a dance called slash Church.

581
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna lie.

582
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 4: It made me spiral for thirty minutes because it just

583
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 4: made me want to have nothing to do with spirituality

584
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 4: because again, it brought up my old fears that I

585
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 4: think are wise around. When people are vulnerable, this kind

586
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 4: of cult of something bigger than us takes over and suddenly,

587
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: if you're in the wrong hands, you can be you know,

588
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 4: devoting your entire financial life and like your entire psychological

589
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 4: truth to dogma and propaganda. And so there was thirty

590
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 4: minutes where I was taking an old shower and I

591
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 4: was like, oh, but for anyone, I forget the name

592
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 4: of the documentary, but essentially it's these young people get

593
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 4: exploited by this perch leader in LA and he well,

594
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 4: I don't want to give it away, but it's you know,

595
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 4: it's a very sinister ending where it's really actually quite

596
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 4: hard to hold these people accountable legally.

597
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 5: So I don't know.

598
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 3: Yep.

599
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: It's interesting because if you think about there's like this

600
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 1: kind of cultural like cross cultural joke, right of like

601
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: oh my THEO THEA spends like all their money on

602
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: like the when it und spiritual number, right, and it's

603
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: always like the quote spiritual stuff that becomes the joke.

604
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: But if we look at like the way we're indoctrinated

605
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: in like Western religions, like we don't give it that

606
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: same type of joke power, right, but it really is

607
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: the same thing, and there's a lot of power. There's

608
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: like not to offend anybody, but there is some like

609
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: cult like behavior. I'm not saying it's a cult es,

610
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: but there's a cult like behavior. And I remember, for

611
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: me one of my first times feeling that when I

612
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: was in Catholic school, I was in high school, we

613
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: would have church like weekly church, like in our auditorium

614
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: in our gym, and they would bring a priest. My

615
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: school would bring a priest to give a mass. And

616
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: I remember just sitting there and watching everybody recite the

617
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: prayer and then grow up and get the Eucharist. And

618
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: it was the very first time that I felt like,

619
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is cul tea. Yeah, and I

620
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: was only like sixteen seventeen maybe. And again I'm not

621
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: saying the Catholic Church is cult, but I am saying

622
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 1: that there are some cult like tendencies. Right, we go

623
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: and we eat like the eucharists the body and blood

624
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: of right and so so yeah, So I just think

625
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: there's this this need or there's this want to like

626
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: ascribe spirituality like any type of spirituality that's like non Christian, right,

627
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: this type of like culty vibes or this like scammer,

628
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: which is true, like there can be, but like also

629
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: that's the same for like traditional Western religions. And there's

630
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: like a blind a blind spot that we have that

631
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: we'd like choose to have. It's like this cognitive dissonance

632
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: that we have for like organized Western traditional religions.

633
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's super gendered. Like people think of

634
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 4: astrology as like a fem they like encoda as like

635
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 4: a feminine practice, and so it gets like severely stigmatized.

636
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 4: And I just don't think that that's particularly true right now,

637
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 4: But I do think throughout history, I mean, there's so many,

638
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 4: you know, examples of that, and I mean still to

639
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 4: this day, it's like such an easy target. Yeah, you know,

640
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 4: I think that's why for so many of us it

641
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 4: took so long to like be public with it, because

642
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: you're so aware of the scrutiny or of how easy

643
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 4: it is to call it silly, you know. But again,

644
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 4: it's like something that's gendered as a like a female

645
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 4: knowledge system.

646
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: And how how did it feel when you went like,

647
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: quote public, like I'm an astrologer? Scary?

648
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 5: That was scary, scary.

649
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 4: I mean, I definitely, like everything in my life, did

650
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 4: it in stages. But yeah, there was a whole period

651
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 4: where I would disclaim. I don't know if you ever

652
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 4: go through periods like that, but I always go through

653
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 4: these periods of disclaiming where I'm like, I mean, but

654
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 4: I already know it's and I don't do that anymore.

655
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 4: And it feels really great, you know, to stand in that.

656
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 4: But it took me a while, and I think it

657
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 4: was partially because I was wary for so many years

658
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 4: that it felt like am I betraying my own into

659
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 4: tuition or my own kind of scholarship or my commitment

660
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 4: to my values, and I think it's actually a deepening

661
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 4: of those values. But yeah, it's been a journey and

662
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 4: I think it's been really honestly, the coolest consequence of

663
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 4: it is that it's given permission to a lot of

664
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 4: people in my life who are similar to me, who

665
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 4: feel like it's embarrassing to be spiritual or it's embarrassing

666
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 4: to have any kind of faith. And so that was

667
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 4: a you know, when you're in your head, you can't

668
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 4: really predict those positive outcomes because you're so fixated on

669
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 4: the the fear based ones. Yeah, so I'm curious, I

670
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 4: have a related I have a question for you guys.

671
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 5: At some point, go for it.

672
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 3: Go for it.

673
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 4: No, just it was to the topic we were just having,

674
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 4: Like I'm kind of curious what you both think of

675
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,959
Speaker 4: Walter Mercalo, because I think it's interesting too to think

676
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 4: of this fine line that I'm undecided about where it's like,

677
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 4: on the one hand, horoscope astrology can be really can

678
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 4: feel really exploitative for folks who are always in need

679
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 4: of like a good word or some hope. But there's

680
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 4: also something that I think was kind of like I

681
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 4: hate to say the word pure, but like well intentioned

682
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 4: about Walter and like wanting to actually offer like a

683
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 4: glimmer of redemption to people.

684
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 5: So I'm kind of curious how.

685
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 4: You both think of like horoscope astrology and if there's

686
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 4: like something beautiful and simple about it, or if it's

687
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 4: kind of like potentially a pyramid scheme.

688
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 3: Interesting.

689
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: I have not thought of Walter Mercado in these ways,

690
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 2: but I would just jumping off of the like Catholicism

691
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: as a cult. I'll say it revelation, I'll say it exactly.

692
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 2: I'll say it. I've had this conversation with my mom,

693
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: who is a Catholic school teacher, you know, and like

694
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: I went to Catholic school for like nine years, and

695
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: I remember there was a conversation about a family that

696
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: went left their public school because they were teaching about

697
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: like gender identity and pronoun and discussions about like CIS

698
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: and trans people, and they didn't like that in their

699
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 2: public school, so they wanted to go to a Catholic school.

700
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: And my thing is like at our Catholic school, every year,

701
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 2: the students we recreate the Stations of the Cross, which

702
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: is the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and they.

703
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 5: Cast us so wild.

704
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 2: They cast children every year to play Ponch's Pilot and

705
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: the weeping women and Jesus, and then they crucify the

706
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,959
Speaker 2: child Christ. Not literally, but they crucify him in front

707
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: of the entire student body and congregation, and it's like

708
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: an honor, like, oh, my child is Jesus and he's

709
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: going to be crucified this year at the station of across.

710
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: So I'm like, you know what, it's kind of pick

711
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 2: your poison, like you're switching out one thing that you

712
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: think is bad for something.

713
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 3: Else that may be worse. I don't know, you know.

714
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 3: And so with someone like a Walter.

715
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: Mercado, I agree, Like, especially seeing the documentary about his life,

716
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think that he was enriched and

717
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: made super powerful as a result of his work. I

718
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: think that he became beloved. I think that a lot

719
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: of people felt comfort watching him and talking to him,

720
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: you know. And so I don't know, I think it's

721
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 2: sort of he seems to me very benign.

722
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there were people in his team that

723
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: saw a way that they could exploit his image, which

724
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: is exactly what happened, because you know, to that the

725
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: point the documentary gos referring to, we don't see what

726
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: the Mergalo living in luxury at the end of his life.

727
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: We don't see any of these riches that you may

728
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: have imagined for him. And so I think, going back

729
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: to what we're talking about the power, I think, like

730
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: I said, there were people in his team that saw

731
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: we can exploit his name, his image, his likeness because

732
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: people will believe him. People did right. And I also

733
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: I think beyond the horoscope, I think like there was

734
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: this very flamboyant, beautiful man on TV touching these Latino lives,

735
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: families that are notoriously conservative considering the time, and that

736
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: they were like listening to him, And I think that

737
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: alone represents so much and to me, like we'll always

738
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: be beautiful. And that's that's what I think of what

739
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: the Mercalo when I think of his like lasting, his

740
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: enduring legacy.

741
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's like the Latino like David Bowie meets like princes. Yeah,

742
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 4: the adornment, yes, yeah.

743
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: The show. Yeah.

744
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: You know, he's not not that different than a Juan Gabrielle,

745
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, where he was so beloved and reached this

746
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: like icon status. Very different of course in their craft,

747
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: but in the way that these like you know, assumed

748
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: queer men could would come into the LATINX culture homes

749
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: and be so beloved, I think is something like which

750
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: I think is why they're still talked about and studied now,

751
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: Like there's the phenomenon behind them is like really interesting

752
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: to a lot of people.

753
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 4: And a quick shout out to my executive producer Maria Garcia,

754
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 4: who just launched My Devil, which is a podcast on

755
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 4: Huanga Yeah and explores this very kind of thread or

756
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: inquiry of queerness.

757
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yes, but thank you for asking.

758
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had not necessarily thought too deeply about him,

759
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: and so for those who are not as familiar watch

760
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: the documentary.

761
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: It's very enlightening.

762
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 4: And I think I brought it up because there's so

763
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 4: much there's so much conversation in the last like five

764
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 4: to ten years around Manifestation, and so I think you

765
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 4: just when you were all speaking, I was thinking about

766
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 4: how he basically died in poverty and was exploited financially,

767
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 4: and so I think I'm just very, yeah, a little

768
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 4: bit wary about how we talk about Manifestation because I

769
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 4: think it I think for me, it stops being I

770
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 4: don't know, not innocent or benign. But it starts to

771
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 4: become troubling when you're promising people who don't have the

772
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: actual like resources, and you're kind of like saying, like

773
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 4: what you can be whatever you want to be. And

774
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 4: I think that's something that can scare me a little

775
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 4: bit about Catholicism and spiritual practice of like what are

776
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 4: we promising?

777
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, because I feel like everyone online

778
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: has been talking about manifestation, and I don't think that

779
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: everyone knows what they're talking about that are talking about it,

780
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 1: you know, and I don't claim to know that much either,

781
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: but I think I have like studied from people that do, and.

782
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 5: So would you think, yeah, I'm curious what you all

783
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 5: think of it?

784
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's like scam like behavior, like you

785
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 1: can't manifest your way out of systemic racism. I think

786
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: that's where my where I get like really upset, where

787
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, like sure, I can try to visualize

788
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 1: a better life for myself, but like you said, if

789
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm not given the resources to get out of maybe

790
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: this systemic poverty or whatever, you know, immigration system, so

791
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: many different things, like I can't actually manifest a green

792
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: card for myself. Sorry, I can't.

793
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 5: These are an amazing example.

794
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: You know, And so it puts I think what I

795
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: see right now with this like New Age spirituality is

796
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: like it's it continues to put the onus on the

797
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: individual again, manifest your way into a better life. And

798
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, we can like create a better mindset

799
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: for ourselves, but we can't like manifest ourselves out of poverty.

800
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: And so those are my thoughts on it.

801
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's I mean, that's a great Instagram reel right there.

802
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 5: I yeah, I love that.

803
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 4: And it's interesting when I really think of like manifestation

804
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 4: dovetailing with optimization, and I saw those kind of converge

805
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 4: in the last five years where it's all about how

806
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 4: to be the optimal you. And I really think the

807
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 4: highest ranking podcast youtubes right now are about morning routine

808
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 4: and like kind of like chat bro chats on like

809
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 4: how we can be our best selves. And I think

810
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 4: there's there's like a gendered version that's like that's manifestation

811
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 4: for like Cis Bros. And then I think it's just

812
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,439
Speaker 4: everything capitalism is customized for you. But all of it's

813
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 4: the same premise right around the onus is on you,

814
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 4: and you got to bootstrap your way to the ideal state,

815
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 4: because once you're in the ideal form, then you can

816
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 4: get the person you want, the job you want, the

817
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 4: life you want. Right. So it's like the way that

818
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 4: we're being sold that I think is like the algorithm

819
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 4: kind of organizes. But I think ultimately it's about the

820
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 4: same lie, which has been at the center of the

821
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 4: United States for as long as it's been founded. But

822
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 4: I think manifestation can work for folks if it's about,

823
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 4: like you said, smaller things that are like why do

824
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 4: I have so much anxiety? Or I think there's like

825
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 4: profound kind of mental shifts or like habit forming creations

826
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 4: that I think can be really really deep for people.

827
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 4: But I think we just need to be careful about

828
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 4: like what we think we're Yeah, what, I don't know.

829
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 4: Sometimes the way people talk about it, I worry people

830
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 4: think you can just like rub a crystal and like

831
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 4: get a new life or something.

832
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I'm like what.

833
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: I feel like the topic manifesting does so well and

834
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 2: the whole like, oh, delulu is the sululu?

835
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 3: Like what's that?

836
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 4: Oh?

837
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: Like being delusional is the solution? So on TikTok delusion

838
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 2: is delulu, Okay, so sometimes it's like Delulu is the sululu,

839
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: and so you should manifest like your life. And I

840
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: think that these ideas do so well on TikTok because well,

841
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 2: if you just manifest and you post three times a day,

842
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 2: then you're gonna go viral and you're gonna make money

843
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 2: on the creator fund and you can post a TikTok

844
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 2: shop and then you can quit your job.

845
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: Wow.

846
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 3: You know, Like, I think the concepts.

847
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: Work really well on the app because it encourages just

848
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 2: more use of the app for this this manifested reality

849
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: that you want for yourself.

850
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 5: Wait, break down. That was really that.

851
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, y'all are killing it. How do y'all like, how

852
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 4: do you tackle that? Because you've I was asking your

853
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 4: producer like how long. Look, I THOUGHTA has been around.

854
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 4: I was like impressed, how long you've been doing this?

855
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 4: And I'm a first time creator in the podcast space.

856
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 4: This is I'm only on month six, and so I'm curious,

857
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 4: like how you all navigate that in a very tangible

858
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 4: way because the algorithm is so fixed in terms of

859
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 4: what works. But then sometimes that algorithm is at odds

860
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 4: with your ethics and so like, but you're still people

861
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 4: who need an audience and believe in what you're doing

862
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 4: and really want to connect with people, So like, how

863
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 4: do you kind of walk that thin line.

864
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: We take these like viral things and we break them

865
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: down and we give them like a deeper analysis. Like

866
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 1: we talked about de Lulu and we were like, Okay,

867
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: remember when women were called hysterical and delusional? Like why

868
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: is this a cute trendy word right now? And like

869
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 1: let's talk about like actually the history of that. We

870
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: we did that for like Chradwives. We had an episode

871
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: on that like two years ago. And so it's not

872
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 1: necessarily avoiding the trends, but it's giving them our own

873
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: spin of like, Okay, this is trendy right now, but okay,

874
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: we're all we're operating under a system of capitalism, right,

875
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: and so these things are being fed to us on purpose. Okay,

876
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: how do we make a meeting out of them? And

877
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: how do we give it a deeper analysis that we

878
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: think our listeners would enjoy? Because I think at its core,

879
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: that's the storytelling we've been doing since twenty sixteen. We've

880
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: been taking these things that are maybe become mainstream or

881
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: become or are popular in our culture and LATINX communities,

882
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: and then we like spin it on its head and

883
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: are like, okay, think about it this way.

884
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. And we had jobs for the first six seven seasons,

885
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: full time jobs, like full time nine to five, you know,

886
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 2: the podcast. We were paying for things out of pocket

887
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: and working and living at home. We have had very

888
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: very few viral moments. We didn't like put out a

889
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 2: viral clip and then quit our jobs and now we're

890
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 2: living high on the hog. It was years of doing

891
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 2: both simultaneously, you know, and we could kind of like

892
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 2: dream big and like look ahead. But ultimately, I don't know,

893
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 2: there was really no man We weren't manifesting anything.

894
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 3: Oh, so like can we remember like manifesting.

895
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 5: I was so helpful to hear. Yeah.

896
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: Also when I hear manifests, like, Okay, I'm all for

897
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: the manifesting, like if it's in realistic ways, but I

898
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 1: also can't help but think.

899
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 3: Of like manifest destiny, and I'm like, yes.

900
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: You know, let's let's remember that, you know, because I

901
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: think there's a connection there.

902
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 3: There's got to be, you know.

903
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes that's the most powerful, simple way to question things.

904
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 4: It's like where the etymology? Where does this come from?

905
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 4: But I I really think it's so generous to tell

906
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 4: stories like that because it gets so demystified, and like,

907
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 4: when I look at your work, it's so impressive, and

908
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 4: I think it's really cool to see what you can

909
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 4: build sustainably over time through being consistent. But you also

910
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 4: have to tell people what it takes, because I think

911
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 4: that when people are not told what it takes, they

912
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 4: really internalize being a failure. And I see it happen

913
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 4: all the time, where it's like I'm not as good

914
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 4: or I'm not as charming, or I'm not as ex

915
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 4: as this person. And they don't have to be a celebrity.

916
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 4: They can be your friend that you pedestal. And that's

917
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 4: what I really worry is the cost of the bootstrap,

918
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 4: you know, mentality among a lot of other social costs,

919
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:33,959
Speaker 4: but one of them is that we all think we're

920
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 4: like inadequate because the mechanisms of success.

921
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 5: Are obscured on purpose. So it's like, oh, how did

922
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 5: the two.

923
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 4: Of them They must just like you said, they must

924
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 4: be riding high and then meanwhile, the two of you

925
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 4: are like nine to.

926
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 5: Five in it. Yeah, you know, that must be. That's hard,

927
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 5: that's a grind.

928
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was not anymore. But for the majority of

929
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: the show it was. It was we were working nine

930
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: to fives and doing what we could, and you know it, it.

931
00:47:59,000 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 3: Did get us here.

932
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: It was the hard work. But we didn't just like

933
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,919
Speaker 1: manifest it, you know. I mean in ways we did,

934
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: in ways we did because we talked about it, we

935
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: dreamt of it, we dreamed about it, but you know,

936
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: we didn't just like write it down and just like

937
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: it happened the next day.

938
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 3: Right right, right, right right.

939
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And before TikTok was invented, before reels, you know,

940
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 2: like viral video and such, it just wasn't part of the.

941
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: It wasn't part of our world.

942
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 3: It wasn't part of the building.

943
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So on this tip and continue with this conversation

944
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 2: and maybe like to help us kind of wrap up. So, yeah,

945
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: what are some challenges if you could even make some

946
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 2: predictions for us between astrology, social media, and young people

947
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: and our next generation of users and as social media

948
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 2: users and content creators and consumers and astrologers.

949
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that is a really nice segue.

950
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 4: I mean I think as an almost thirty eight year

951
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 4: old I kind of missed the train that I have

952
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 4: a lot of empathy for younger people who are they

953
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 4: call like digital natives, where they grew up through social media,

954
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 4: and so I'll never be able to understand what it's

955
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,760
Speaker 4: like to feel like social media is a very meaningful

956
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 4: place of community building, and it's something I try and

957
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 4: remember when I get all like anti mode and I'm like,

958
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 4: go outside, totally such grass.

959
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 5: How's your offline life, They're like.

960
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 3: Oh, you're so old. It's way more fluid than that.

961
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 5: I'm like, is it?

962
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 4: But I do worry about publicness and like exploding. And

963
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 4: I was actually thinking when you were talking about how

964
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 4: nice it is in a way to grow slowly and

965
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 4: have a really engaged following as opposed to becoming famous overnight.

966
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 4: And you know, for maybe really great reasons, you're either

967
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 4: like really talented at providing entertaining information, which there's so

968
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 4: many incredible gen z astrologers that I'm like, Wow, you

969
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 4: guys really know your stuff. You're so much better at

970
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 4: me that making knowledge like palatable and entertaining. But I

971
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,240
Speaker 4: think it's really you know, astrology is a slow learning process,

972
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 4: and I I've met like MultiGen astrologers who've been practicing

973
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 4: for thirty years and they see these young people getting

974
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 4: famous on TikTok overnight, and like they're not shaming them,

975
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 4: but they're worried about their mental health because you when

976
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 4: you put yourself and audition yourself for the role of expert,

977
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 4: there's a lot of pressure that comes with that, right,

978
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 4: Like what if I say the wrong thing, or what

979
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 4: if I predict something and someone takes my prediction really

980
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 4: seriously and then you know, there's all these questions. So

981
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 4: I think the cautionary tale for me is just like

982
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 4: maybe making it more socially acceptable to refute the expertise

983
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 4: thing and like just own what you know and then

984
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 4: you can be really playful about what you don't. But

985
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 4: I think all of us, no matter age or social

986
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 4: media status, should, like, I don't know, welcome that more

987
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 4: into our practice of saying I don't know, or saying

988
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 4: this is what I know right now, or this is

989
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 4: what I know from what I've researched, but just being

990
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 4: really specific about you know, your context. And I think

991
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 4: especially for young women, not feeling so much like ownership

992
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 4: or pressure to take on the world, like it's also

993
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 4: okay to log off. It's okay to stop things you started,

994
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 4: it's okay to change your mind, and so yeah, I

995
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 4: just I just worry about the mental health stuff, and

996
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 4: I worry about feeling pressure to always create content. I

997
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 4: don't know about you all, but I get fatigued by

998
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 4: making like one thing.

999
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, it's very tiring.

1000
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so I'm like wow, and like, you know,

1001
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 4: some people find so much energy from it, so it's

1002
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 4: no shade, But I just think that there must be

1003
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 4: something truly exhausting about feeling like you're constantly performing for

1004
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,720
Speaker 4: an audience and your money's.

1005
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 5: Tied up to it.

1006
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 4: Yep, that's complicated, right, because if you want to get

1007
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 4: the bag, then you got to be on. And so

1008
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 4: I just want young people to be able to be

1009
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 4: young people too and fuck up, yeah, and not owe

1010
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 4: anyone anything. So I think I specifically talk about young

1011
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 4: people a lot because that's honestly, who are some of

1012
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 4: the most talented astrologers of the day. So shout out

1013
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 4: to them. Keep being amazing, but also protect yourself.

1014
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and stay in school please.

1015
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I see, at least in the like Latino community,

1016
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: with the Latino influencers, I have seen a number who

1017
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 2: have gone super viral, and like there's been a lot

1018
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: of conversation about like why the number that are like

1019
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 2: didn't finish high school and like are not making plans

1020
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: to do so and or maybe haven't had like a

1021
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 2: real job, you know, and so like even if I

1022
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 2: have like little cousins who I want to be a singer.

1023
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: I want to be an artist. That's fabulous. And the

1024
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 2: most well rounded artists are always studying and stay in

1025
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: school and keep a job, you know, like do it,

1026
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: but take care of yourself in these other ways. You know.

1027
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 4: I love that, and I think again that's why I'm

1028
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 4: really yeah, just it was it was cool that you

1029
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 4: told us the whole backstory of your podcast, because I

1030
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 4: think one of the reasons that they say that is

1031
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 4: because they're seeing the incentives like I can make more money,

1032
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 4: I can do all this stuff by just being on TikTok.

1033
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 5: And it's like that's not the full truth.

1034
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we need to start telling the full truth.

1035
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 5: It's like all the it's like the way the.

1036
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 4: Violent ways that we can like accidentally, you know, encourage

1037
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 4: people to have disordered eating by being like I didn't

1038
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 4: get a surgery I drink water, like so many like

1039
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 4: famous celebrities have been.

1040
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 5: Like, I just drink a lot of water and you're like, no, what.

1041
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 3: Was in the water exactly?

1042
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:33,320
Speaker 5: That water's crazy.

1043
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 4: But I feel like the more we can be transparent,

1044
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 4: the more young people would make more complicated choices. But

1045
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 4: it's like if they're just like, oh, she's making all

1046
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 4: this money, of course they're not going to want to

1047
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 4: go to school.

1048
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: It all goes back to capitalism.

1049
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 2: Lisa, you have just been a revelation. You have given

1050
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 2: us so much to think about.

1051
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:54,399
Speaker 3: I've learned a.

1052
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: Lot same same. Thank you so much. This was so incredible,

1053
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: and this is the first time we actually have like

1054
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: a full like astrology dedicated episodes.

1055
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,439
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, thank you, thank you much.

1056
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much. This has been incredible.

1057
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 5: Thank you also. Yeah, so honored to be on.

1058
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 2: Can you let our listeners know where they can keep

1059
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 2: up with you and where they can tune in to

1060
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 2: Stars and Stars with Issa.

1061
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1062
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 4: So I am Isa, Naka is A and Aka on

1063
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 4: all platforms, and then my show is Stars and Stars

1064
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 4: of Lisa. We have weekly drops every Tuesday, and it's dope,

1065
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 4: you're gonna listen to me read artists birth charts, and

1066
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,879
Speaker 4: it's kind of like a hybrid between an astrology birth

1067
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 4: chart reading and an interview. And so if you're an

1068
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 4: astrology fan or not, there's something for you. And so

1069
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 4: you can find that everywhere you get podcasts.

1070
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: It's so good. The rock sane gay one.

1071
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 3: I need to tune into that one one.

1072
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's my favorite. Yes, yeah, And bio Acoma that's

1073
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 5: my favorite.

1074
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: Amazing, amazing. Well, thank you Loka mos for tuning into

1075
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: another episode of lok at Dora Radio. We'll catch you

1076
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 1: next time. Bessitos Loka do A Radio is executive produced

1077
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: by Viosa Fem and Mala Munios.

1078
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 2: Stephanie Franco is our producer.

1079
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: Story editing by Me.

1080
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 3: Diosa creative direction by me Mala.

1081
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: Look at A Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michael

1082
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:21,240
Speaker 1: Dura podcast Network.

1083
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 2: You can listen to Lokata Radio on the iHeartRadio app

1084
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.

1085
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,520
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1087
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1088
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1089
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