Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always trying not to
Speaker 1: reach for quarterbacks.
Speaker 2: I'm Greg Rosenthal.
Speaker 1: I'm in the Chris Westling podcast studio, and I am
Speaker 1: joined by one of the best minds in the podcasting
Speaker 1: writing game. It's John Ledyard. He's got the Audibles and
Speaker 1: Analytics substack. He's got a great podcast with Ali Connolly. John,
Speaker 1: What is happening?
Speaker 3: Man? Not too much? Thank you for the kind words.
Speaker 3: First of all, always fun to be on here with
Speaker 3: you and talking some ball. I believe last time we
Speaker 3: talked we ranked in tiered tight ends. A lot of
Speaker 3: backlash for that, so I'm excited to I'm sure get
Speaker 3: no backlash for today's podcast.
Speaker 1: No, and I don't even know if we're gonna rank it.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk quarterback. So I've been not pimping but
Speaker 1: getting ready for this week now for a while saying,
Speaker 1: like you know, we're getting into the draft. It's been
Speaker 1: a slow process. I got the weekly show with Daniel Jeremiah.
Speaker 1: Audibles and Analytics is another one that people should check
Speaker 1: out with you and Ali, DJ and I are on Thursdays.
Speaker 1: But like now, it's go time. We are two and
Speaker 1: a half weeks out from the draft. Every day now
Speaker 1: is draft, and we're going to talk quarterbacks today and
Speaker 1: kind of keep it specifically two quarterbacks, and I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna put you and make you do a ranking, but
Speaker 1: we'll talk about good fits and we'll kind of order
Speaker 1: him in some sort of way. And I guess we
Speaker 1: might as well just start at the top now because
Speaker 1: we've talked draft. It's not like cam Ward has not
Speaker 1: come up on this show. But I don't I don't
Speaker 1: think we've dived deep into what makes him special? Kind
Speaker 1: of what was your journey with cam Ward as a
Speaker 1: prospect and where did you land in terms of like
Speaker 1: how special do you think he is?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the profile is weird right away, right twenty three
Speaker 3: year old rookie. He'll be three different schools, so you're
Speaker 3: already like, O, guess maybe it's red flag right now.
Speaker 1: One of the schools was Incarnate word, which yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Which is necessarily what you traditionally think of as the trajectory.
Speaker 3: But you know, the multiple school thing, you know we're
Speaker 3: starting to move with that's more normal. Three is still
Speaker 3: you know, being an older rookiees And I to be
Speaker 3: honest with you, Greg, like people just didn't talk about
Speaker 3: caim Ward like a special should be the top overall
Speaker 3: pick even the beginning of the season. So to say
Speaker 3: it's come out of nowhere isn't fair because he's been
Speaker 3: on the radar for everybody for a long time. We've
Speaker 3: known the skill set and the traits are interesting. I
Speaker 3: think this year he got better in some really key
Speaker 3: ways though, which makes him you know, he's my top quarterback.
Speaker 3: I think he's most people's top quarterback the NFL. Generally,
Speaker 3: everything we hear is, yeah, this guy's going first, and
Speaker 3: almost every team has him first, and it's not that
Speaker 3: close to in a tier by himself type of guy
Speaker 3: and in this class I think now. I think one
Speaker 3: of the things that it's really interesting is one of
Speaker 3: the things he did really poorly in the past was
Speaker 3: managed the pocket, and this is still an area of
Speaker 3: growth for him and where he needs to continue to
Speaker 3: grow in a lot. But I mean, his pressure to
Speaker 3: Zach Ray went down this year fifteen point nine percent
Speaker 3: was a big step in the right direction for him.
Speaker 3: So that just it's the ability to manage the game
Speaker 3: a little bit better now. His footwork he still need
Speaker 3: some work in terms of being able to set up
Speaker 3: the right way. This guy is so lax and the
Speaker 3: details sometimes and he can get away within the college
Speaker 3: ball and he might be able to do it some
Speaker 3: of the NFL. Some of these guys do do it
Speaker 3: in the NFL, and he's a pretty great arm. I
Speaker 3: don't think he's quite that special so from a talent perspective,
Speaker 3: so I do think he needs to continue to develop
Speaker 3: in those ways. But watching some of the processing stuff
Speaker 3: get faster, and the other key thing, I think he
Speaker 3: just throws to every spot on the field like he
Speaker 3: will throw in breakers with anticipation, which to me show
Speaker 3: there's a lot of development and growth there. He's playing
Speaker 3: a little bit of a step ahead right now, so
Speaker 3: encouraging signs in the right direction and some really key
Speaker 3: areas of quarterback play this past season where why I
Speaker 3: think he's really not only is easy the best in
Speaker 3: the class, but he's moving in the right direction.
Speaker 2: Right It is funny.
Speaker 1: I love the draft community, and yet you really don't
Speaker 1: know where these players are going to land until pretty
Speaker 1: late in the process. I remember RG three, there was
Speaker 1: no one saying that he was gonna be going top
Speaker 1: two until very late in that season, and not to
Speaker 1: pick on him. But I remember like a podcast episode
Speaker 1: Jim Naggy was on who knows more about these prospects
Speaker 1: than anyone? He was running the Senior Bowl for many years,
Speaker 1: and he was on with Mickshaye and he was talking
Speaker 1: in the middle of this season, Hey, don't count on
Speaker 1: cam Ward as a first round pick. Like the reason
Speaker 1: he went back to school was teams were telling Amy
Speaker 1: was a fifth or sixth round pick if he was
Speaker 1: going to come out last year. He actually wasn't even
Speaker 1: going to be invited to the Senior Bowl, which is
Speaker 1: crazy to think. And now he's the number one overall pick,
Speaker 1: and A, you don't know how a player is going
Speaker 1: to develop, and then B you don't really know how
Speaker 1: teams are going to look at him. And I think
Speaker 1: when they look at his tape from this season and
Speaker 1: I dove into it, there's so much to be excited about.
Speaker 1: I mean, putting a far of comparison on someone is crazy,
Speaker 1: but because he definitely doesn't have like that arm, but
Speaker 1: in terms of the taking the chances, but enough of
Speaker 1: a pocket fe like a better scrambler and athlete than
Speaker 1: he is, like a runner like you, than he's sort
Speaker 1: of being given credit for and just making it all happen.
Speaker 1: Like I'm in Like he's going to add a lot
Speaker 1: of value to my life, John, That's what I care
Speaker 1: most about. I think he's going to be box office
Speaker 1: and he's gonna be a fun player to watch. And
Speaker 1: that level of chill that you described in terms of
Speaker 1: how relax he is back there, I think there is
Speaker 1: there's some negatives to it, but there's some positives to
Speaker 1: it as well. He's certainly like not afraid of the
Speaker 1: pass rush, and I think he plays in such a
Speaker 1: relaxed way it makes you think at least that mentally,
Speaker 1: I think he's he's got a lot going on where
Speaker 1: the game is not too fast for him, certainly after
Speaker 1: all that college experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is everything's just
Speaker 3: sort of slowed down for him, Like he just feels
Speaker 3: more confident. Even from the beginning of the season to
Speaker 3: the end of the season. I think we saw that
Speaker 3: a lot, Like there was a lot of notable things
Speaker 3: in the early in the season where he was drifting
Speaker 3: around in the pocket, he was a little bit unsure
Speaker 3: planning on time, and then as the season went on,
Speaker 3: he was playing his best ball. He was getting the
Speaker 3: ball more on time. So there's definitely things to work on.
Speaker 3: This is not the most home run quarterback prospect that
Speaker 3: we've seen there by any stretch of the imagination. There
Speaker 3: are things that he needs to get better at. There
Speaker 3: is bus potential here even I would think I would say,
Speaker 3: I don't know that that's not what I'm betting on happening,
Speaker 3: But I think it's important to acknowledge that it's more
Speaker 3: possible here than it is with a lot of qb
Speaker 3: ones and other drafts. Not necessarily because this draft is
Speaker 3: so bad, just sort of because who Ward is as
Speaker 3: a player. There are some things about his game that
Speaker 3: I said have improved, but ultimately he will throw it
Speaker 3: to the other team at times, and he will take
Speaker 3: risks with the ball that he shouldn't, and those sorts
Speaker 3: of things combined with if the pocket stuff doesn't get better,
Speaker 3: because right now, he's getting the ball out on time more,
Speaker 3: he's not taking sacks more than he wants to, but
Speaker 3: he's still making some questionable decisions, and he's still not
Speaker 3: setting up properly all the time. His setup is really
Speaker 3: kind of all over the place terms how he throws.
Speaker 3: He doesn't mind drifting back and throwing off his back foot,
Speaker 3: and he and Sanders honestly have some similarities in their weaknesses.
Speaker 3: They're different in terms of their strengths, but in some
Speaker 3: terms of their weaknesses. Ward can get away with some
Speaker 3: of those messy footwork things a little bit, but I
Speaker 3: don't think, like I said, that it's going to be
Speaker 3: quite at that level where it's so special doesn't matter
Speaker 3: what his feet look like. I still think he needs
Speaker 3: to get better at some of those details. So and
Speaker 3: if he doesn't, it's the type of thing that could
Speaker 3: lead to like pretty big lapses in offense where he's
Speaker 3: not going to be able to be just to manage
Speaker 3: the situation type of player. He's going to be a
Speaker 3: baller and that's either gonna work or it isn't. And
Speaker 3: so there is some bust potential just in his profile
Speaker 3: as a player.
Speaker 1: Ray I'm trying to think of someone else that would
Speaker 1: just be described as as chill as he is.
Speaker 3: I mean, Sanders has some of sure.
Speaker 1: I mean Cam had a little bit of that that
Speaker 1: he was just so big that he sort of didn't
Speaker 1: care what was happening around it. Ryan Tannehill weirdly just
Speaker 1: was kind of chill back back there if he wanted,
Speaker 1: but not like the same, sort of like loose athlete.
Speaker 1: The thing is, if you're grading the flashes, you see
Speaker 1: it all. You do see anticipation. You do see him
Speaker 1: going through his reads. You see him kind of lock
Speaker 1: in and lock out in games. But that shows me like, Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe if the competition in the NFL, maybe he can
Speaker 1: lock in a little more consistency consistently. Let's think about
Speaker 1: the fit with the Titans, because I haven't really asked
Speaker 1: anyone about this or thought about it too much and
Speaker 1: don't think I'm the right person to give an answer
Speaker 1: for it. Him. With Brian Callahan, I feel like there
Speaker 1: hasn't been a lot of talk of like, Okay, how
Speaker 1: do you think that works? I'm not really sure what
Speaker 1: a Brian Callahan offense is, so that's part of the
Speaker 1: difficulty here. But how do you think, with what you
Speaker 1: know about Callahan and the Titans, like how that fits together?
Speaker 3: It's really interesting because Callahan, you know, was with Burrow
Speaker 3: and then got to Tennessee and not that surprisingly, I guess,
Speaker 3: but trying to run totally different stuff than what he
Speaker 3: ran with Burrow, Like it wouldn't look anything like the
Speaker 3: offense the Bengals run. Not that not that really anybody
Speaker 3: looks like the offense the Bengals ran. So he I
Speaker 3: really have no idea. Like he was with Will Levis
Speaker 3: and that didn't work, and so it was kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 3: it was more traditional stuff. I think my guess is
Speaker 3: that that would be I think the thing with Callian
Speaker 3: is he'll build the offense around the player and Ward.
Speaker 3: Obviously you didn't work under center, So is a lot
Speaker 3: of like gonna be a lot of gun stuff. I
Speaker 3: think will look just like a spread it around the
Speaker 3: yard and throw it around everywhere, like Joe Burrow did.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's in the cards. To me, that
Speaker 3: would be really surprising if they made it look just
Speaker 3: like that. Is word going to have to do some
Speaker 3: more traditional quarterback stuff that he hasn't done before. I
Speaker 3: don't know. This is the most unknown fit of a
Speaker 3: top team in quarterback that I can remember in a
Speaker 3: long time, because I don't know how the Titans even
Speaker 3: in so recently. I don't think people thought they thought
Speaker 3: of him this way. I don't know how they see him.
Speaker 3: I don't know what they see as being the best
Speaker 3: fit for him. I don't think anything Callahan's really done
Speaker 3: in the past the past year with the Titans or
Speaker 3: with the Bengals is going to be particularly Maybe I'll
Speaker 3: be wrong, but I think we don't think it's going
Speaker 3: to be particularly informative to us in terms of guessing
Speaker 3: what he'll look like, what it'll look like with cam Ward,
Speaker 3: other than to say I think there will be a
Speaker 3: lot of the gun elements, but I bet that there's
Speaker 3: some more. I mean, they ran a lot. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of RPOs in Miami's offense, like you know, I
Speaker 3: think there'll be some of that still in Tennessee's offense
Speaker 3: as well. But I am fascinated to know how much
Speaker 3: he's going to ask him Ward to be more traditional.
Speaker 3: Is there going to be dropback stuff? Is there going
Speaker 3: to be play action stuff where he goes under center
Speaker 3: and like right, I really don't know if that's part
Speaker 3: of it. That's going to be so amazing to see
Speaker 3: if Ward can do that, because there's a guy who's
Speaker 3: been three different places and transformed himself and changed and
Speaker 3: adapted over the years. But that would be at another
Speaker 3: leap for him right out of the gate.
Speaker 1: On paper, No, I mean meet him where he is,
Speaker 1: meet him where he is and build an offense around
Speaker 1: his strengths. And he was very good at the RPO stuff,
Speaker 1: and like I said, I think he'll be box office
Speaker 1: And then you keep adding that it's like it's like
Speaker 1: they did such a good job with Jayden and Daniels
Speaker 1: accentuating his strength. A very different player than Jade Daniels.
Speaker 1: He's gonna have a lot of turnovers. I mean, he
Speaker 1: just is as a rookie. But to me, I want
Speaker 1: a player that's gonna entertain me. And so maybe it's
Speaker 1: the Tennessee of it all, but he's there's like a
Speaker 1: little Cutler, Like I knew Cutler would entertain me as
Speaker 1: a pro and he absolutely did. And I think Ward
Speaker 1: might might end up fitting into that archetype of People
Speaker 1: have compared him a little bit to Jordan Love Either way, Like,
Speaker 1: I think he's going to be fun to watch and
Speaker 1: so he's going to be starting right away and hopefully
Speaker 1: they do meet him where he is.
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about Shoulder.
Speaker 1: So the consensus second quarterback in this class, but I
Speaker 1: think the differing opinions are mostly about do you just
Speaker 1: group Shoulder with Jackson Dart and Tyler Shuck and the
Speaker 1: rest of this crew as like kind of a second group.
Speaker 1: I know our friend Nate Tice does, for instance, he
Speaker 1: just thinks the rest of the group are varying levels
Speaker 1: of day two dart throws and shoulders in that group.
Speaker 1: Or do you kind of see him a tier above
Speaker 1: not really thinking about where he's going to go because
Speaker 1: he's almost certainly going to go in the first round somewhere,
Speaker 1: I think, but just more of the total evaluation because
Speaker 1: it's such a hard he's a tricky evaluation.
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 3: He's an interesting player. I think the player that he
Speaker 3: most compares to. We didn't talk about this too much
Speaker 3: with Ward, I think, but with Sanders, I think the
Speaker 3: player most compares to is brock Purty at his best,
Speaker 3: if he can be at his peak. I think they're
Speaker 3: both guys who take a little bit of time to
Speaker 3: make decisions. They have sort of a moxie about how
Speaker 3: they play and a confidence about how they play. They
Speaker 3: like to hold the ball. They aren't gonna be amazing
Speaker 3: testing athletes. I don't think aybody wants them to be like, oh,
Speaker 3: they're amazing, Like they're just so athletic and so springy,
Speaker 3: and twitchy, and but when it comes to functional mobility
Speaker 3: for their position, I think they both have enough. Party
Speaker 3: is probably a little more athletic than Sanders, I think,
Speaker 3: but I think they have enough to manage and to
Speaker 3: get by. They do some un orthodox things in terms
Speaker 3: of how they manage the pocket and playing on time,
Speaker 3: but they throw really accurate balls, and they throw and
Speaker 3: they throw despite not having great arms, they throw the
Speaker 3: ball well. So I think they're If Sanders can reach
Speaker 3: his peak, it'll be something like brock Purty. Now, brock
Speaker 3: Perry's in a great situation. He's got some of the
Speaker 3: best teammates in the entire NFL that certainly he got
Speaker 3: some of the best coaching in the league. All that
Speaker 3: is aided the profile and what he's see somewhere in
Speaker 3: that probably twelve to eighteen range as terms the best
Speaker 3: quarterbacks in the league somewhere in there. So maybe that's
Speaker 3: the ceiling for Sanders, But I see him pretty similar
Speaker 3: doubt Nate does it sounds like and just that thinking
Speaker 3: that at least he and Dart are really different, really different,
Speaker 3: but maybe the same tier. To me, Sanders is sharp mentally,
Speaker 3: whereas Dart, I think, continues to need to develop from
Speaker 3: the neck up. And with Sanders, I love that he
Speaker 3: looks like he's played quarterback for a long time and
Speaker 3: that part, yeah, is natural to him. The accuracy in
Speaker 3: the ball plays in a natural but I think that
Speaker 3: there's real concerns over his arm strength and his time
Speaker 3: to throw in the pocket, just how long it takes
Speaker 3: him to make decisions. He knows what to do. He
Speaker 3: just likes to play this like hero mentality ball, where
Speaker 3: he's probably gonna take shots and he doesn't mind getting
Speaker 3: hit at all and he'll just let himself get lined
Speaker 3: up and cleaned out in that way. Yeah, it reminds
Speaker 3: me of Cam Newton and that he would just take
Speaker 3: massive shots to make plays. So I think Sanders has
Speaker 3: some of that without really any of the physical tools that.
Speaker 1: Newton has right at some point that it's going to
Speaker 1: come back to get you just taking the types of
Speaker 1: hits that he did. And their offensive line was terrible overall,
Speaker 1: I mean it really was, especially at the tackles, but
Speaker 1: there were certainly plays where what you're talking about comes
Speaker 1: into play where he's the one really just inviting that
Speaker 1: pressure and he tries to be a playmaker and he's
Speaker 1: not a great playmaker. The best plays are definitely the
Speaker 1: ones that are in structure. It always worries me if
Speaker 1: you're betting on intangibles, and I just think it's such
Speaker 1: a hard evaluation because he's been coached the same way
Speaker 1: this whole time.
Speaker 2: He is a good quarterback.
Speaker 1: It's like, does Travis Hunter like even out like lifting
Speaker 1: him up because a lot of his long plays, Like
Speaker 1: Travis Hunter is making great plays on the ball on
Speaker 1: those plays. So to me, it's very difficult when you're
Speaker 1: betting on in tangibles. I do think he's gotten a
Speaker 1: bump from just it happens in some drafts, and it
Speaker 1: happens with some name value Occasionally, we'll have to wait
Speaker 1: till the draft actually happens. Occasionally, like the NFL sees
Speaker 1: him totally differently and we will be just talking about
Speaker 1: him falling down to the twenties. So it'd be interesting,
Speaker 1: by the way, with the forty nine ers, he was
Speaker 1: on the board for the forty nine ers, would they
Speaker 1: ever just like totally change course and be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're not going to give you that Conjack Brack pretty
Speaker 1: that would be fun.
Speaker 3: I don't think they would, But uh, I don't I'm
Speaker 3: surprised you with the Niners these days. They're pretty, they're
Speaker 3: wild and kind of I think one of the craziest
Speaker 3: things about Sanders' profile he is one of the highest UH.
Speaker 3: I think he was tenth highest in the nationwalks all
Speaker 3: college quarterbacks. An average time to throw this past year
Speaker 3: to three point one to two seconds. This is average
Speaker 3: time to throw. This is also one of the highest
Speaker 3: RPO in screen heavy offenses in the league. How do
Speaker 3: you end up with that time to throw in an
Speaker 3: offense that has this many RPOs and screens in it?
Speaker 3: I mean, the offense is painfully, painfully simple, painfully poorly constructed.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: They had playmakers of some of these wide out spots
Speaker 3: and they really let those guys rip. But this offense
Speaker 3: is I mean, he's going to get to the NFL
Speaker 3: and be like, are you kidding me? All this structural
Speaker 3: stuff could help me. I mean, no play action. There's
Speaker 3: just so little in terms of what would aid him
Speaker 3: as a quarterback other than just get it. There's a
Speaker 3: place where he just gets the ball out quickly. But
Speaker 3: in terms of downfield stuff, he created so much stuff
Speaker 3: in the athletes. They had created so much stuff on
Speaker 3: their own There just wasn't a lot of things that
Speaker 3: helped them get to big stuff in their offense. It
Speaker 3: was a lot of out of structure stuff and he
Speaker 3: deserves credit for that. And some of the average time
Speaker 3: to throw is that kind of stuff. Some of it
Speaker 3: is just like I'm not going to play on time,
Speaker 3: like I'm playing my way, I'm making a play and
Speaker 3: I just the biggest thing to me is if he
Speaker 3: was an unbelievable talent, I would be like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: cool with that, like that, I can roll with that.
Speaker 3: Because the arm, the ball just dies all the time
Speaker 3: down the field, but not distance distance throws. People confuse armstraight, No,
Speaker 3: he can't throw it far. As soon as he throws
Speaker 3: it far in the NFL, people and be like they
Speaker 3: were worried about his arm. This about velocity when we're
Speaker 3: talking about armstrang and he drive the ball. And that's
Speaker 3: what I think is really it just lacking on tape
Speaker 3: all the time. And you wish it wasn't the case
Speaker 3: because you really love the makeup of the player and
Speaker 3: the toughness, his desire to put the team on his
Speaker 3: back when he knew the system wasn't great. But I
Speaker 3: just don't think the tools will translate to playing that
Speaker 3: way in the NFL, and I don't know if he
Speaker 3: can continue to play and the like. In the pro game.
Speaker 3: They're gonna ask him to throw the middle of the
Speaker 3: field on time of anticipation way more than this offense
Speaker 3: did where he's playing outside the numbers a lot. That's
Speaker 3: just kind of an unknowl Like, he didn't throw there
Speaker 3: a lot, and so what is that going to look
Speaker 3: like at the pro level when the offense he's in
Speaker 3: has way more in terms of how it attacks the field,
Speaker 3: So it's going to stress defenses way more. But I
Speaker 3: think it's also gonna ask him to do some things
Speaker 3: that we didn't see in college.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the out of structure plays. You see the arm strength.
Speaker 1: That is a huge difference when you're watching Ward in
Speaker 1: him back to back, not that Ward is is Jordan
Speaker 1: Love in terms of just pure arm strength. But it's
Speaker 1: still a plus arm that gets it there. And you
Speaker 1: do see the ball die. There's a lot of contested catches,
Speaker 1: and that's from the pocket as well, whereas it's contested
Speaker 1: and you're kind of thinking, well, if it was someone
Speaker 1: else throwing, maybe it wouldn't be a contested catch a
Speaker 1: lot of tight throws for Sudar.
Speaker 2: And yet if you.
Speaker 1: Told me Andy Dalton with swag, like is an outcome,
Speaker 1: Like that's a good outcome for a late first round pick.
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton's had an incredible with that hair. He does
Speaker 1: have swag. Maybe early Andy Dallon, I should I should, right.
Speaker 1: So I've heard stories because I worked with Andrew Hawkins
Speaker 1: who was on those Bengals team, and he had aj Green,
Speaker 1: and he had who else was on that was? Who's
Speaker 1: Manzada on that t and Hawkins on that team, and
Speaker 1: they all respected the hell out of Andy Dalton. They
Speaker 1: all loved Dandy Dallton. So whether it was swag or not,
Speaker 1: he was he was a leader that that was and
Speaker 1: I and I think has got to give you that.
Speaker 1: So like, look if we're feeling like that's a four,
Speaker 1: But I don't think that's necessarily his floor. I think
Speaker 1: it could go in a number of directions because of
Speaker 1: those deep drops that you talked about with Camp two.
Speaker 1: Last thing on Shoudre is just kind of who who
Speaker 1: would you want to see him with. Let's say you're
Speaker 1: you are in his family and you it's not about
Speaker 1: the money in terms of the signing bonus. You just
Speaker 1: you just think I want him to land with the
Speaker 1: right system for him, Like is there a fit for
Speaker 1: for him or a few fits out there that you like.
Speaker 3: He's one that's it's multi layered right system wise to
Speaker 3: would he work best with his one question? And then
Speaker 3: personality wise, like would he work with the Giants?
Speaker 1: Just because he's like a big personality.
Speaker 3: I mean I think, yeah, I think he's a big personality.
Speaker 3: I think he's his own person like unique from a
Speaker 3: personality perspective, where like Brian Dable, like what is he
Speaker 3: is he going to be able to roll with? Like
Speaker 3: who Sanders is and just the way he communicates and
Speaker 3: all those sorts of things, Like I actually think of
Speaker 3: it as a positive for Sanders. I but I think
Speaker 3: the fit matters because he isn't just your you're And
Speaker 3: this is a good thing I think, and it can
Speaker 3: be a really good thing a traditional mold at this position.
Speaker 3: Will dab will be able to roll with that? I
Speaker 3: don't know. Maybe he will, and.
Speaker 2: He'd better be his careers on the line.
Speaker 1: He's had a lot of quarterbacks, to be fair to
Speaker 1: Brian Dabele, going back to college, going back to Tom
Speaker 1: Brady if you want to and Josh, you know, you
Speaker 1: got to think if they took him, they'd have the
Speaker 1: conviction that they're that they're going to make that work.
Speaker 1: And I think it's not like Shitter isn't gonna want
Speaker 1: to be coach start or anything like that. So personalityway
Speaker 1: wasn't less worried. It's more just like does that fit
Speaker 1: or where would he fit?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think, I mean Pittsburgh's an interesting one that's
Speaker 3: been talked about a lot. I think from a personality perspective,
Speaker 3: that's a great fit. That's hard for me to say
Speaker 3: anybody like Arthur Smith's offense would be very different for
Speaker 3: him from what he's run at Colorado.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: I think anything's going to be different, but that offense
Speaker 3: would require him to go under center. He would have
Speaker 3: to adjust to a lot of things. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of play action, a lot of shots like there are
Speaker 3: some things that could maybe work, but it would be
Speaker 3: a learning curve for him in some ways. Stefanski is
Speaker 3: one that I think in Cleveland would be interesting. He's
Speaker 3: kind of remade his offense a lot of different times,
Speaker 3: a lot of different ways for different players, So he
Speaker 3: has shown the desire to be flexible and me kind
Speaker 3: of meet who players are now. None of that worked
Speaker 3: with Sean Watson, and maybe mostly because he wasn't the
Speaker 3: player that he once was, so not the thing was
Speaker 3: going to work. But with Sanders, I think there is
Speaker 3: that ad layer of like, Okay, if this player is
Speaker 3: willing to buy in here and be a part of
Speaker 3: what we're doing, we'll change and we'll adapt the offense
Speaker 3: to fit like sort of things that he wants. So
Speaker 3: that's an interesting one to me. I don't think he's
Speaker 3: gonna go it too to Cleveland. I'm not exactly sure
Speaker 3: where he's gonna go. Before the Raiders got Gino Smith,
Speaker 3: I was actually kind of interested in that potential fit
Speaker 3: because I think he and Pete's personalities would also be
Speaker 3: really fun together and I would kind of love to
Speaker 3: see that. I have no idea how would go with
Speaker 3: Chip Kelly or what chip Kelly's even gonna run in
Speaker 3: the NFL, But so there's some interesting ones maybe, But
Speaker 3: I do think Cleveland, if it happens, maybe later in
Speaker 3: the draft. Like you say he's gonna go first Hunt,
Speaker 3: I think he will, but I'm maybe it's a trade
Speaker 3: back in I'm not totally convinced that there's a lot
Speaker 3: of teams that need him or value him. Maybe in
Speaker 3: the first round. Could he be the first pick in
Speaker 3: the second round? I mean, I would be interesting. Maybe unlikely,
Speaker 3: but it's possible.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I think the Rams are the floor.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way to know what the Rams
Speaker 1: are really thinking. I think he would. I think they're
Speaker 1: in the quarterback market in this draft class, and whether
Speaker 1: that's at twenty six or they have to move up.
Speaker 1: They've like moving up, but it's going to be tough
Speaker 1: for them to do so they gave up an extra
Speaker 1: they're missing a pick. They would be quite a luxury
Speaker 1: pick there at twenty six, but I could see it happening,
Speaker 1: and I think it'd be an interesting fit in that system.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and we've broken down the
Speaker 1: top two and we'll get into the rest of the
Speaker 1: quarterbacks right after this.
Speaker 2: Back on NFL Daily.
Speaker 1: And yeah, looking at John here, it does remind me
Speaker 1: of that Tight Ends ranking show, which in my head
Speaker 1: at the time was going to be the first of
Speaker 1: like an off season positional ranking show on around the NFL,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately that didn't happen.
Speaker 3: All my friends remind me all the time that I
Speaker 3: ruined everything.
Speaker 2: No, we had nothing to do with John Ledyard.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll do it again though in terms of the
Speaker 1: NFL daily off season programming. But I'm locked in on
Speaker 1: the draft while I have you on the show, though,
Speaker 1: I do like, you know, taking us off track a
Speaker 1: little bit. You do follow the Steelers pretty close, and
Speaker 1: you just talked about Arthur Smith, like who would really
Speaker 1: fit in Arthur Smith offense?
Speaker 2: And I do feel like there's a.
Speaker 1: Dichotomy between maybe how Arthur Smith gets talked about sometimes nationally,
Speaker 1: like he's still skating on some of those Titans offenses,
Speaker 1: which now are like a little bit in the rear
Speaker 1: view mirror, and like, what is Arthur Smith really in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five as someone that's that's breaking down the
Speaker 1: Steelers Because you do it on audibles and analytics, it's
Speaker 1: your substack, and you do that with Ali it's a
Speaker 1: great podcast, but you also do extra coverage on your
Speaker 1: own on the Steelers. So I am I'm curious where
Speaker 1: are we in the Arthur Smith experience because I'm getting
Speaker 1: more dubious by the year.
Speaker 2: I will say that, yeah.
Speaker 3: He's just not very good or very modern. I think
Speaker 3: is part of the problem, like that, you know, that's
Speaker 3: the thing. He thinks that the things he did in
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen are going to really succeed still in today's NFL,
Speaker 3: and it just changes too quickly, Like everything he's doing
Speaker 3: is outdated. I would even say it that tig it
Speaker 3: was close to being god like he had Derick Henry,
Speaker 3: like that's what he had and that guy was awesome,
Speaker 3: and they had some other thing. I mean, I think
Speaker 3: he I think they did a good job with what
Speaker 3: they had. But yeah, I mean that's not an offense
Speaker 3: that anybody's thinking, oh, you should replicate that in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five, and he's thinking that, like that's what he
Speaker 3: wants to replicate. So you know, the early down runs
Speaker 3: and lots of first down runs. He's the second and
Speaker 3: long run guy. The play sequencing is an issue, and
Speaker 3: then I think the passing offense. Honestly, he gets ver
Speaker 3: he gets heralded is a run game guy. But the
Speaker 3: run games have been bad for years. If you look
Speaker 3: ep A per play.
Speaker 1: Right, That's that's where my basic mind looks at. It's
Speaker 1: like the run game isn't happening. He had the people
Speaker 1: to do it even in Atlanta. Wasn't happening to the
Speaker 1: consistency that you would have wanted to, right, That's absolutely right.
Speaker 1: I'm curious who would fit I think would fit with that.
Speaker 1: That quarterback to me like, he's a guy that wants
Speaker 1: to go under center. He wants to run play action.
Speaker 1: He wants to rely on that part of it, which
Speaker 1: actually don't hate that part of it. I wish the
Speaker 1: play action was more threatening in terms of attack in
Speaker 1: the middle of the field, perhaps with a different quarterback.
Speaker 1: It would be first guy that comes to mind, obviously
Speaker 1: in this class. I think Will Howard would be really
Speaker 1: interesting to him. There would be some developmental stuff with
Speaker 1: other guys. I mean, but Jackson Dart and Will Howard
Speaker 1: are both guys that I think could be guys that
Speaker 1: if you're just saying who's the fit right now without
Speaker 1: needing a lot of molding or changing, both of those
Speaker 1: guys make sense.
Speaker 3: Have gone under center a little bit. There's some play
Speaker 3: action ability to them. They sort of have the thing
Speaker 3: with things that he looks for from a trades perspective.
Speaker 3: He wants to be able to get the ball out
Speaker 3: on the field. Will Howard is not a big armed guy.
Speaker 3: He threw the deep ball really well last year, and
Speaker 3: so and I think both are guys. Dart is a
Speaker 3: little bit more interesting. We could talk more about him
Speaker 3: in a second. But I think Howard's a guy at
Speaker 3: least that if he was there in the third round
Speaker 3: that he would see is this guy will do what
Speaker 3: I tell him to do. And Russ didn't necessarily do
Speaker 3: that last year all the time, and I think, you know,
Speaker 3: there's always tedgy with people arouse. I don't know how
Speaker 3: much that's overblown. Fields did and he liked Fields, but
Speaker 3: Fields like wasn't capable, Like, he wasn't comfortable, he wasn't consistent,
Speaker 3: and so I think he's looking for somebody who can
Speaker 3: do those things consistently and follow his modeled approach. Hilarious
Speaker 3: that they're looking at Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1: Right, I was gonna say, if you're looking for someone
Speaker 1: to do what is told Aaron Rodgers and Arthur Smith,
Speaker 1: that could be fun. I mean, they've both been paid
Speaker 1: contributors to McAfee. They've got that in common. They're both
Speaker 1: a little salty. It would be fun. Just from a
Speaker 1: content perspective. I'd be into that. And yes, Will Howard
Speaker 1: the Ohio State quarterback who will probably go in the
Speaker 1: middle rounds somewhere. His old coordinator, Chip Kelly is with
Speaker 1: the Raiders, so that's a connection that has been made
Speaker 1: and probably about the point in the draft where they'd
Speaker 1: think about taking a quarterback there. Let's talk Dart and
Speaker 1: maybe Howard too. But you mentioned Arthur Smith still trying
Speaker 1: to recreate the ideas that worked for him, like so
Speaker 1: well back six or seven years. That's like a life
Speaker 1: lesson thing too, like a there are authors that have
Speaker 1: two or three great books in them but that's all
Speaker 1: they have, or just even one great book in them,
Speaker 1: and that's all that have, and to me, it doesn't
Speaker 1: diminish how great that book was. And there's actors too
Speaker 1: that they have like a moment in time where they
Speaker 1: do what they did and it works amazingly for three
Speaker 1: to five years, but they're not going to go do
Speaker 1: anything else. And maybe maybe that is Arthur Smith a
Speaker 1: little bit. If you want to be a great all
Speaker 1: time coach, you have to be like Kyle shannoner McVeigh
Speaker 1: that within the box of what they do, or Belichick
Speaker 1: is always changing. The NFL is an evolutionary league. It
Speaker 1: is always changing. I think you guys do a really
Speaker 1: great job, you and Ali pointing how the league is
Speaker 1: changing on your podcast. But I don't know, Maybe Arthur
Speaker 1: Smith doesn't have a great second book.
Speaker 3: No, it's a good point. I think that could be true.
Speaker 3: In keeping with your analogy, maybe Derrick Henry was the
Speaker 3: star actor and Arthur Smith was the supporting action.
Speaker 1: Sure, maybe, sure, Pek Dereck Henry is a good place
Speaker 1: to start. Although it's certainly it was working and right.
Speaker 1: You know, I always have a soft spot for him
Speaker 1: because I always thought Ryan Tannehill in the right system
Speaker 1: was going to have a good career, and it took
Speaker 1: Arthur Smith to actually make it happen. So I thank
Speaker 1: Arthur for that. Let's talk Jackson Dart. Let's talk to
Speaker 1: Jackson Dart. Okay, there's been coms to like a jail
Speaker 1: and hurt. The thing about Dart and I put this
Speaker 1: to Daniel Jeremiah last week, but I'll put it to
Speaker 1: you too, Like there is a lot of projection there
Speaker 1: because what you don't see from him is some of
Speaker 1: the stuff you see from cam Ward and Shular Sanders,
Speaker 1: which is real quarterbacking. Like it it is just the
Speaker 1: things that they're going to ask him to do at
Speaker 1: the pro level in terms of going through his reads
Speaker 1: and anticipation in the middle of the field.
Speaker 2: There's not like a ton of that on his tape.
Speaker 1: So how do you when you're making the evaluation, work
Speaker 1: that into how you see him projecting forward?
Speaker 3: Yeah, an offense to found space a lot in ill
Speaker 3: miss spread offense ares lots of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: You know. Pro defenses are a lot better at just
Speaker 3: attacking and eliminating offenses like that, especially from pressure perspective,
Speaker 3: which they struggled with. Honestly, it almost too dark gets
Speaker 3: crushed a lot tons of mocks. Even this guy, I mean,
Speaker 3: he will throw while he's about to get just destroyed.
Speaker 3: All three of these top guys, like no issues with
Speaker 3: them at all in terms of the toughness and the
Speaker 3: ability to make a throw while they're about to get
Speaker 3: cleaned out. Like, these guys are all pretty tough, made
Speaker 3: of the right stuff mentally for sure, you know. So
Speaker 3: the concern with Dart really is almost ultimated. People say
Speaker 3: he's not an elite talent. I think his tape as
Speaker 3: a passer reminds me a little bit of Justin Herbert
Speaker 3: at Oregon who I did not find that impressive, to
Speaker 3: be honest with you. I thought there were physical tools
Speaker 3: and moments and throws, but consistency wise from a processing standpoint,
Speaker 3: getting the ball out accuracy, Like I thought, there were
Speaker 3: a lot of issues, and I see some of those
Speaker 3: issues with Dart too. You know, I don't know whether
Speaker 3: he'll make the jump that Herbert did at the next level.
Speaker 3: I think that that doesn't happen with everybody, but the
Speaker 3: because they were from the spread so often teams all, right,
Speaker 3: get the ball out before we clean out, and sometimes
Speaker 3: they did, sometimes they didn't. That made Dart speed up
Speaker 3: a little bit. There's a lot of times in which
Speaker 3: it's not necessarily playing fast. That maybe is the issue.
Speaker 3: I think it's more playing smart that's the issue. When
Speaker 3: the game script got to a point where he had
Speaker 3: to be the guy, it got pretty rough at times.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm a little bit scared of Jackson Dart
Speaker 3: because I just wonder, from the neck up, if there's
Speaker 3: enough right now to be able to win, Like he's
Speaker 3: the kind of guy where it could get to the
Speaker 3: league if teams haven't done their homework, or if they
Speaker 3: haven't it just isn't the same on the board as
Speaker 3: it is like when he gets in the in the
Speaker 3: building and is out on the field. I just wonder
Speaker 3: if it's gonna it could be too big for him
Speaker 3: and it could just be too fast for him, and
Speaker 3: I think that part could be paralyzing to him and
Speaker 3: some of the decision and the end of the Florida
Speaker 3: game is that it gets talked about, but it's legit
Speaker 3: like he's playing well that old game. He's rolling as
Speaker 3: soon as all right, you're the guy, go making drive,
Speaker 3: go win us the game. It's ugly, Greg, I mean,
Speaker 3: he's throwing the ball. The other team they dropped a
Speaker 3: couple of picks, like it's everything just make some down
Speaker 3: and falls apart. So you file those moments away. It's
Speaker 3: not the whole evaluation, but you think of it certainly.
Speaker 3: And I think he's I do think he's a good
Speaker 3: athlete too, and that part of it is the Hurts
Speaker 3: part that you mentioned. I think he can not a
Speaker 3: explosive guy like Hurts isn't that explosive, but has the
Speaker 3: ball carrying ability in the body armor. He's really stout
Speaker 3: in terms of his build. So there's some interesting things
Speaker 3: you can do with them. I'm not sure how long
Speaker 3: or if it's in the cards for him to be
Speaker 3: the guy for your team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you have a real vision for him. And
Speaker 1: I hate to be like, hey, he's not for me
Speaker 1: and then Sean McVay drafts him or something like that.
Speaker 1: It's like, clearly you are gonna have a vision for
Speaker 1: him if you take him. But him in particular, I
Speaker 1: feel like you would have had to done a lot
Speaker 1: of work with him in terms of the visits and
Speaker 1: really understanding what he's seen, because you don't see it.
Speaker 1: And I do knock him a little bit that he
Speaker 1: was in that same system for three years, so I
Speaker 1: want that. I want that thing to be mastered by
Speaker 1: the end of it. I want you to feel extremely
Speaker 1: comfortable and proficient and intelligent within that system by the
Speaker 1: end of it. And that's where I'm not really in
Speaker 1: on him. Whereas Shuder, You're saying, does he really have
Speaker 1: the athleticism to make up for what, you know, the
Speaker 1: style of play that he is And I get that,
Speaker 1: but I think you can see enough from the neck
Speaker 1: up that can I see him adjusting. I think Jackson
Speaker 1: Dart is like that, but to a lesser degree because
Speaker 1: he's obviously a good athlete. He's got some he's got
Speaker 1: a good arm, Like it's easy cheese out there. Like
Speaker 1: there's a couple of plays where he flips his hips
Speaker 1: and he's running to the left, and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's awesome, that's great. But it's a lot of just
Speaker 1: one read or else. And I guess if I'm going
Speaker 1: to have one thing that I'm not gonna just project
Speaker 1: totally forward, that's it because I don't see it. I'm
Speaker 1: not smart enough at least from what we're doing, to
Speaker 1: really project that forward. And so I think you'd have
Speaker 1: to really get to the heart of like why he
Speaker 1: did what he did, and that's stuff to do.
Speaker 2: From where we're sitting.
Speaker 3: His pocket positioning is really good and that gives me
Speaker 3: some hope for him. Whereas the other two guys, I
Speaker 3: think they drift around and they make things harder for
Speaker 3: their lines at times because of where they are in
Speaker 3: the pocket. I think Dart is pretty consistently in the
Speaker 3: right spot in the pocket. He will move up when
Speaker 3: he needs to. He actually is a pretty good feel
Speaker 3: for pressure. Now. He's still despite that, ended up getting
Speaker 3: sacked a lot, I think because he didn't know necessarily
Speaker 3: where to go at the ball or the picture changed.
Speaker 3: I think he knew pressure was coming. He turns, he
Speaker 3: takes the ball with him like it's not like he's
Speaker 3: surprised by the hit, but he just doesn't get it
Speaker 3: out as much as he should. And so that's he's
Speaker 3: over two years in a row with over nineteen percent
Speaker 3: pressure to sack rates and very few throwaways if you
Speaker 3: look at his amount of times he gets out and
Speaker 3: throws it away compared to the other guys. So those
Speaker 3: things are kind of where I say, like, I think
Speaker 3: the bus potential year is high, because if you are
Speaker 3: constantly taking sacks and you're not thinking fast enough to
Speaker 3: get the ball out on time in the NFL, then
Speaker 3: you're just gonna get benched, like or you're not ready
Speaker 3: to play yet. So in a lot of RPOs in
Speaker 3: this off and trade to a lot of stuff helping
Speaker 3: him kind of get the ball, he has flashes of it.
Speaker 3: There is a couple plays I think they had a
Speaker 3: fourth down conversion against Florida where he goes one, two,
Speaker 3: three and he hits a deep crosser for a tight
Speaker 3: window for a big play, and it's like, man, like,
Speaker 3: that's it, Like if you could just go, but he's
Speaker 3: he that's so far the exception. He will stare down
Speaker 3: guys and he will not move through. He'll look at
Speaker 3: one side of the field only and forget about the
Speaker 3: other side. And so I just think there's a long
Speaker 3: way to go with him in terms of and maybe
Speaker 3: not a long way to go, Like maybe it's happens
Speaker 3: more naturally once he gets out of the ole miss
Speaker 3: and he adds different coaching. But the fact that you,
Speaker 3: as you said, it didn't happen yet gives me some
Speaker 3: pause and some concern with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the ball location is okay. It's the same
Speaker 1: with Ward, it was just okay. Sometimes is a little off,
Speaker 1: like he's always maybe it's just the timing where it
Speaker 1: just feels like he's.
Speaker 2: A beat late.
Speaker 1: And when I was making the Sanders comparison, I was
Speaker 1: kind of like, you need something to maybe make up
Speaker 1: for this stuff, and everything seems good enough. He's not
Speaker 1: Jalen hurts it as a runner. I mean, he's a
Speaker 1: good runner, but he's not that brings us to Milroe. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I've only watched so many quarterbacks here, and Jalen
Speaker 1: Milroe would be my fourth of the ones that I watched.
Speaker 1: And it's because if you put Jalen Milroe in the NFL,
Speaker 1: well you are, We're putting him in the NFL. How
Speaker 1: many quarterbacks in the NFL are better runners right now?
Speaker 2: Right now?
Speaker 3: Like if yeah, Lamar Jaden Daniels maybe is comfortably smaller,
Speaker 3: so I mean you're more hired risk. Probably those guys
Speaker 3: were awesome. I think he's better than Hurts already as
Speaker 3: a runner.
Speaker 2: I mean Josh Allen Is.
Speaker 1: I often say that is Josh Allen run is the
Speaker 1: most efficient play in football. But in terms of like
Speaker 1: even Lamar Is is like step a lot slower maybe
Speaker 1: than he was, although he kind of had it all
Speaker 1: back this year.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So honestly, he might be like Jalen Miller oh
Speaker 1: day one, might be the best riding quarterback in the NFL.
Speaker 1: And damn Like that alone is enough for me to
Speaker 1: like him better than any other quarterback that I've watched
Speaker 1: in this class, cause like maybe we're like, could he
Speaker 1: be a better version of Taysom Hill? I would take
Speaker 1: that over maybe any other quarterback in this class. Just
Speaker 1: that as a baseline. I don't think you should underrate that.
Speaker 1: That is an amazing starting point, because my god, is
Speaker 1: he a special runner and we can talk about the
Speaker 1: drawbacks and it's why he's not gonna get taken in
Speaker 1: the first round. Where look, if his season had ended
Speaker 1: John after the first four games of the season because
Speaker 1: he got.
Speaker 2: Hurt or something like, where would he go?
Speaker 1: Do you think, by the way, like just answer that
Speaker 1: thought experiment, would he be a first round to pick? Then?
Speaker 3: I don't think so, just because of the vetting process.
Speaker 3: I think the wards so people get excited about him
Speaker 3: as a college player, and I think there's reason to
Speaker 3: be excited about him in the NFL too, But I
Speaker 3: wonder if the process would still bring out some of
Speaker 3: the warts in his game. And at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, teams once it's easy in the moment to
Speaker 3: get caught of me, Oh this guy's excited again, then
Speaker 3: teams have to be like, hold on a second. This
Speaker 3: guy had the highest like in the nation, like basically
Speaker 3: uncatchable throw rate, and like even like some of the
Speaker 3: passing stuff is.
Speaker 2: Okay, give me the other side of it, give me
Speaker 2: the other side of it. Then let's give me the
Speaker 2: other Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean he is like he is truly one of
Speaker 3: the most unbelievable athletes in the league at this position.
Speaker 3: And the size too. In the leadership too. I mean that,
Speaker 3: I think that the intangibles are great too. However, Yeah,
Speaker 3: the accuracy stuff is a real concern. He did play
Speaker 3: the position faster this year. I don't know if he
Speaker 3: played it better. In fact, he maybe didn't, and so
Speaker 3: maybe that's more of a concern. But he, I mean,
Speaker 3: he really improved time to throw in some of those
Speaker 3: sorts of things. The actress, he was still an issue
Speaker 3: I think at different levels of the field. Also, just
Speaker 3: the fundamentally the way he manages the pocket, the way
Speaker 3: he manages the game is really sporadic. It's hard to
Speaker 3: be to feel like you have a reliable sense of
Speaker 3: what he's going to do in a given player, given situation.
Speaker 3: So I think he's difficult to coach, especially at a
Speaker 3: level where coaches are gonna be like, this is what
Speaker 3: we do do it for the most part, not maybe
Speaker 3: not all the mocking him to Pittsburgh thing that's very
Speaker 3: common right now, did he meet with them? Who's in
Speaker 3: that meeting? All that kind stuff like that's happening with
Speaker 3: him right now. Like it's really funny because it would
Speaker 3: be such a Tomlin pick, like I loves the personality
Speaker 3: of the player, like and that's kind of stuff Tomlin
Speaker 3: gravitates for it. It'd be such a funny fit in
Speaker 3: the offense. So everybody's trying to figure out where he goes.
Speaker 3: The reason we keep bringing up the same couple of
Speaker 3: teams is there really are only a couple of teams
Speaker 3: that need a quarterback. So it's probably gonna be a
Speaker 3: surprise team that takes a couple of these guys. But
Speaker 3: teams really feel like, yeah, this class week, Bren don't
Speaker 3: get who we want or we're not get a guy
Speaker 3: who can play. So I think he could go to
Speaker 3: any team because it's just sort of like a raw
Speaker 3: canvas in terms of what you're working with and his
Speaker 3: approach I think is going to be really good, and
Speaker 3: you know, the Alabama thing plus the personality I think
Speaker 3: is everybody's Could he could he be our Jalen Hurt
Speaker 3: some more explosive? You know? Could that be the case?
Speaker 3: And that's probably the best case scenario.
Speaker 1: I'd say maybe for I mean that, yeah, that would
Speaker 1: be that would be incredible. I mean, he he is
Speaker 1: a next level athlete, and so I have a friend
Speaker 1: Ada Adam West, who you guys know if you listen
Speaker 1: to the show that Saints Block Party podcast. And by
Speaker 1: the way, he's been pumping up like dart to the Saints,
Speaker 1: like he would be excited about that, and they would
Speaker 1: be excited about that. I'm not liking that for anyone involved.
Speaker 1: But he was like, you're gonna love Milrow when you
Speaker 1: watch them, and of course I do, because how can
Speaker 1: you not be exciting watching him? And the thing I
Speaker 1: would just push back slightly on the passing, which is
Speaker 1: it's pretty erratic, it's pretty rare.
Speaker 2: There were legitimate spots.
Speaker 1: In his career where he had to make throws to
Speaker 1: win games and he made him. And so like, he's
Speaker 1: not gonna be a plus plus thrower and that's maybe
Speaker 1: gonna like limit his ceiling. But there were third and
Speaker 1: nine situations that he's playing Georgia this year and he
Speaker 1: has to make the throw and he did make them.
Speaker 1: So it's not like you're working with nothing as a thrower,
Speaker 1: and so I just it would have to be with
Speaker 1: the right fit, and it might be a third, fourth round.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you would take him early. It might
Speaker 1: be with a team like the Cardinals who don't need
Speaker 1: anything right now, but are just like, hey, maybe in
Speaker 1: a couple of years, Jalen Milroe would be an interesting option,
Speaker 1: like instead of Kyler.
Speaker 2: It might be like something like that.
Speaker 1: But if you're telling me he's starting out his career
Speaker 1: as like a plus like version of Taysom Hill or
Speaker 1: something that comes in for a little bit Sean, like,
Speaker 1: I'm buying that as a mid round pick, that would
Speaker 1: be kind of fun.
Speaker 3: Come on, John, as a mid round pick one hundred
Speaker 3: percent of yeah, like I would. I would be really
Speaker 3: in because there are a lot of things you're worth
Speaker 3: working with. And you said it like the big time
Speaker 3: throw rate. This guy really made a lot of high
Speaker 3: degree difficulty throws too. Hey, it isn't like he's never
Speaker 3: hit anybody on a pass or something like somebody gets
Speaker 3: talked about. I think the consistency at the position, which
Speaker 3: is I think the most underrated part of quarterback play
Speaker 3: is not the hind stuff with the consistency is where
Speaker 3: you really get concerned about him. Is that going to
Speaker 3: be able to evolve or grow in the NFL? But like,
Speaker 3: would you rather take a chance on somebody who's already
Speaker 3: as you said, starting from an unbelievable mobility perspective, or
Speaker 3: you know, we'll talk about him maybe a little bit.
Speaker 3: But like somebody like Tyler Shuck, who.
Speaker 2: Combine at all, it's all happening. It's all happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm not like I would have I would
Speaker 1: have Milroe ahead of Jackson dark Ultimate. Not that I
Speaker 1: get why why he in a generic board, but just
Speaker 1: that in the terms of ways that I think different
Speaker 1: people are gonna want to miss in different types of ways,
Speaker 1: I would be more comfortable missing with Milroe. I feel
Speaker 1: like Jackson Dart's giving me too much like Drew Locke
Speaker 1: vibes of the type of quarterback where it doesn't work.
Speaker 1: Whereas if you have a vision of how Milroe could work,
Speaker 1: all right, let's throw Shuck in here too. So Tyler
Speaker 1: Shuck an older prospect at Louisville. He was in the
Speaker 1: same prospect class as Trevor Lawrence, which is outrageous and
Speaker 1: Justin and Justin Fields too, right, he was in that
Speaker 1: class too, even though he came out a year later.
Speaker 1: And so that to me is a little bit of
Speaker 1: a knock.
Speaker 2: Give me, give me your Tyler Shuck thoughts, Give me
Speaker 2: your Tyler Shock.
Speaker 3: And yet yeah, seven college seasons, and yet he has
Speaker 3: four hundred less career dropbacks than Jackson Dart says way less,
Speaker 3: way less than Sanders and camp Ward. He only has
Speaker 3: one thousand, ninety five dropbacks and six cold seasons, was
Speaker 3: injured during that seventh. He is one of the oldest
Speaker 3: players in the class, as we mentioned, will be twenty
Speaker 3: six as a rookie. However, he's also one of the
Speaker 3: least experienced. That is a tough combination in a position
Speaker 3: where experience matters greatly. Now I will say this, there
Speaker 3: are some plays and this is why people like Tyler Schuck.
Speaker 3: Everything is textbook greg backfoot hits, ball comes out anticipation,
Speaker 3: throw middle of the field on a dig right in
Speaker 3: the zone window. It's beautiful. And that's where the coach
Speaker 3: people love Tyler Schuck, where they're like, this guy does
Speaker 3: exactly what I asked for her to do. He plays
Speaker 3: on time. This is great, and he's talented. It's not
Speaker 3: like he's not talented. He is very talented. He's not
Speaker 3: just like a system guy. Like there are some beautiful
Speaker 3: throws he can move like. He is talented. I do
Speaker 3: want to say that while I'm about to kill him.
Speaker 3: He is yet and he has a good enough arm,
Speaker 3: he size, he's dropbacks under center, all the stuff that
Speaker 3: you know that the coach, the coach, draft people and
Speaker 3: the coaches in the league are like, this guy, could
Speaker 3: we could get him in the system, he could be
Speaker 3: okay for us. Every coach thinks there's scheme is gonna
Speaker 3: be enough and if they can just get a player
Speaker 3: in THEO, they'll run the scheme, they'll be fine. The
Speaker 3: problem is he just can't create. He's not a creator whatsoever.
Speaker 3: Thirty one throwaways this season, super high number. He's improvement
Speaker 3: in taking sacks is notable. But two things. His lack
Speaker 3: of creation is an immense problem in my opinion, because
Speaker 3: in the NFL, you're gonna be under pressure. So when
Speaker 3: you can't create under pressure and you don't have any
Speaker 3: desire to either. He was trying to get the ball
Speaker 3: out of your end all the time. That's an issue
Speaker 3: because you're gonna be in situation. So yeah, if he
Speaker 3: gets in a game and everything goes perfect in that game,
Speaker 3: he could be like the player of the week or
Speaker 3: something like that type of guy. Next week they blitz
Speaker 3: him and he's in trouble, and what does this guy do.
Speaker 3: It's been hurt a million times right all over his tape. Greg.
Speaker 3: He's falling away at the top of his ten, twelve
Speaker 3: yards deep in the pocket. He's trying to get as
Speaker 3: far away from the defensive line as possible. Pressure gets
Speaker 3: through even in his vicinity, and he's falling off his platform.
Speaker 3: He's falling away from contact. The ball's dying on him,
Speaker 3: he's trying to throw it away, he's panicking, he's turning
Speaker 3: up and taking a sack. It's just I just don't
Speaker 3: think the negative I think the negatives are so bad
Speaker 3: with him that I just don't think it's ever gonna
Speaker 3: be consistent enough. In the NFL. He'll be a backup
Speaker 3: because if for a team that hopefully doesn't need to
Speaker 3: play him that often, but because I think he'll impress
Speaker 3: in all the ways that you impress until the bullet
Speaker 3: star flying, but once the bullets star flying, I just
Speaker 3: think there's too many issues like this. The bad stuff
Speaker 3: is going to be really bad. Even if, like on paper,
Speaker 3: it makes sense that this guy could do what we
Speaker 3: want him to do, but I just don't think when
Speaker 3: you get in the game, there's not that same level
Speaker 3: of aptitude and stressful situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to have a code at some point
Speaker 1: when you're evaluating these guys. What's your type, what do
Speaker 1: you like? And to me, it's pocket presence. It's the
Speaker 1: ability to not panic against pressure. Is probably the number
Speaker 1: one thing I'm most confident in my basic guys being
Speaker 1: able to recognize having watched all the quarterbacks that have
Speaker 1: coming into the league and then especially in the league,
Speaker 1: like just seeing that is the absolute number one thing
Speaker 1: that will unravel good quarterbacks, average quarterbacks, below average quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: It's what separates guys who have long careers. And that
Speaker 1: to me was just like a cross off for what
Speaker 1: you said, like the falling off, and I just didn't
Speaker 1: not my guy, It'll be someone's guy. Greg Goseell had
Speaker 1: him second, and I kind of get it. Where in
Speaker 1: this class after cam Ward, you could make the case of,
Speaker 1: depending on what you like, of six seven different types
Speaker 1: of guys. But in this case, I think we're right
Speaker 1: because I think it's just going to be a cross
Speaker 1: out for him in terms of being able to play
Speaker 1: against pressure. And we don't need to bury the kid.
Speaker 1: He is at ninety six in the consensus board, by
Speaker 1: the way, so he's some people probably have him even
Speaker 1: higher in that he might go second or third round.
Speaker 1: All right, of the rest of the guys, and we're
Speaker 1: going to wrap up here quickly, but I will give
Speaker 1: I just will give the floor to you those. I
Speaker 1: don't know if those are the consensus top five. We
Speaker 1: probably hit the consensus top four if Milroe's in that
Speaker 1: we mentioned Will Howard already, who could be a guy
Speaker 1: from Ohio State quinn Ewers. I feel like it's not
Speaker 1: been talked up throughout the process from Texas, but someone
Speaker 1: might like him. Dylan Gabriel from Oregon, Kyle McCord from Syracuse,
Speaker 1: Abe Riley Leonard, who who Nate Tice is still holding
Speaker 1: out like a little bit of hope for from Notre Dame.
Speaker 1: Is there any of the other quarterbacks that catch your
Speaker 1: eye the most, that you that you like or even
Speaker 1: just that you think you have something interesting to say
Speaker 1: about those guys?
Speaker 3: Well, McCord is probably the interesting one. I guess I'm
Speaker 3: not really high on them. I do like Will Howard
Speaker 3: a little bit. I think he belongings in this conversation.
Speaker 3: I will say that with with this kind of next group,
Speaker 3: But you know, I mean there's a real path to me,
Speaker 3: where Will Howard's better than Jackson Dart eventually in the league,
Speaker 3: and maybe Sanders too. I think like that's possible because
Speaker 3: those guys have some like potentially fatal flaws, and Will
Speaker 3: Howard doesn't have any of the like high end stuff
Speaker 3: they have, but it doesn't maybe have those fatal flaws.
Speaker 3: So you know, it's so much of this is fit
Speaker 3: with these guys. Once you get to limited players, you
Speaker 3: get you get into massive fit conversations and fit questions.
Speaker 3: So I wouldn't be offended by anybody who ranks these
Speaker 3: guys in the same tier. I think so everybody else
Speaker 3: to me after the Sanders shook, Dart Howard kind of
Speaker 3: group in and Milro probably being in there too. If
Speaker 3: you're just like upside, yeah, like he's not as polished
Speaker 3: maybe some of them yet, but upside he could easily
Speaker 3: be better than all those guys. If or not, it
Speaker 3: wouldn't happen easily.
Speaker 1: But you could disagree with me on my show, John,
Speaker 1: you can say that's a bad I'm just thinking want
Speaker 1: as a backup. He would be a fun backup, Like
Speaker 1: once you get him, you probably need about a year,
Speaker 1: but a fun backup that he gives you a different.
Speaker 2: Look for a couple of games. Anyways, I'll shut up
Speaker 2: about I.
Speaker 3: Know I would take Miller over Shuck for sure, and
Speaker 3: I would I think there's a real path to the
Speaker 3: other guys just not being good enough, and so I
Speaker 3: would be if the Steelers taken for whatever, I'll be
Speaker 3: really intrigued by that. Obviously the fit would be weird.
Speaker 3: Mccorda is the interesting one because I think he was
Speaker 3: just kind of an afterthought. He went to Syracuse and
Speaker 3: the numbers were better, but still people were talking about
Speaker 3: Now as you get closer and you start hearing people
Speaker 3: in the league talk, it's like, wait, you're gonna take
Speaker 3: this guy on the top one hundred? Is that?
Speaker 2: Oh? Okay?
Speaker 3: And he's a guy that can, like if you talk
Speaker 3: about Hydergow difficulty throws, he can make him. And he
Speaker 3: made it more of this past year at Syracuse than
Speaker 3: we even saw at Ohio State. It was interesting. It
Speaker 3: was it wasn't good enough to elevate the talent at
Speaker 3: Ohio State, but he didn't really need to write there's
Speaker 3: great talent there. So it was like, well, if he's
Speaker 3: not good enough with these guys, then he's not gonna
Speaker 3: be good enough Syracuse, and then he went to Syracuse
Speaker 3: and elevated the talent there. It was really it was
Speaker 3: very fascinating. So just to step in the right direction
Speaker 3: and the progress that he made, I think we'll have
Speaker 3: people intrigued because there's a big arm, not very mobile.
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of concerns he's going to
Speaker 3: throw the ball the other team all the time. And so,
Speaker 3: you know, Mitchell Trubisky's been a common comp for him,
Speaker 3: and I think it makes a lot of sense. Is
Speaker 3: there a world in which Trubisky could have turned down
Speaker 3: to a better prob I don't think so. Teams might
Speaker 3: think so. I'm not particularly high on McCord, but to me,
Speaker 3: he's more interesting than Gabriel or yours or some of
Speaker 3: those other guys that maybe are going to be talked
Speaker 3: about in this range of the draft.
Speaker 1: Well, he would certainly take Trubisky's career because he'd be
Speaker 1: a mid mid round pick that lasted in the league.
Speaker 1: Not that they would get the starts that that Trubisky
Speaker 1: got because of his draft status. I appreciate it. There's
Speaker 1: no need to try to force it is. It is
Speaker 1: a thing that happens with these drafts with the quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: The most notable recent example being twenty twenty two. Just
Speaker 1: looking at the consensus board, which it's it's funny to
Speaker 1: look back at now going into that draft, the consensus
Speaker 1: board among the draft Knicks had Malik Willis ten. He's
Speaker 1: on his second team and has found a great spot.
Speaker 1: Now he looks like one of the best backups in
Speaker 1: the league. But you know, he was at ten. Pickett
Speaker 1: was at fifteen, Ritter was at thirty one. He's on
Speaker 1: his third team. Kenny Pickett's on his third team. Matt Krall,
Speaker 1: who is now throwing the passes at the Common was
Speaker 1: thirty six. This is where it really got crazy. Howell
Speaker 1: was at forty six. Carson Strong was at seventy eight.
Speaker 1: So you don't need to just push up quarterbacks just
Speaker 1: because they're the quarterbacks. And it's not like there were
Speaker 1: you know, guys later in the draft other than Perty
Speaker 1: that that ended up making it happen.
Speaker 2: But Perty did make it happen.
Speaker 3: So the league. Wolves was my top quarterback that year
Speaker 3: and I think he was in the seventies on thee.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't need to force it. It is closer to
Speaker 1: one of those years I.
Speaker 3: Would say this class, I will say this is better.
Speaker 2: Than Oh yeah, it's way better. I agree with that.
Speaker 1: I think I think should have Sanders at worst is
Speaker 1: going to have a long career in the league. I'm
Speaker 1: excited about getting to watch cam Ward every Sunday. And
Speaker 1: then I do think Millroll's got a chance, and Dart
Speaker 1: certainly has a chance.
Speaker 2: In some of these other guys, they got a chance.
Speaker 1: John Ledyard, appreciate you coming on. Check out audibles and
Speaker 1: analytics with Ollie Connelly, any anything else you want you
Speaker 1: want to pump up, because look, if you're a Bucks fan,
Speaker 1: you're you're probably a lot of Bucks content, a lot
Speaker 1: of Steelers content, and then YouTube cover the entire league.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Bucks and Steelers content. Lots of NFL draft scouting
Speaker 3: reports going up right now on the site. Just published
Speaker 3: like five safety reports. Allie and I did in depth
Speaker 3: podcasts about the safety class and the running back class
Speaker 3: this week, and we went through our tiers and rankings
Speaker 3: and evaluations. So lots of those kind of fun conversations
Speaker 3: happening there. We'll get corners next week, We'll get linebackers
Speaker 3: coming up here soon. Finish this thing out strong, going
Speaker 3: into the draft. So yeah, people are interesting.
Speaker 1: You're not afraid to bury guys, you know, you just
Speaker 1: just bury him sometime. I guess it's the confidence that
Speaker 1: comes with like a jaw that's square. That John is
Speaker 1: posted here does burying these young men? No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1: I like the honesty. You guys talk like like the
Speaker 1: scout drave like the front offices talk. Yes, they're all
Speaker 1: doing the same thing. It makes sense. All right, that's
Speaker 1: it for today's show. Hit the Music, Eric.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: We got a big week, so I mentioned we're really
Speaker 1: zeroing in on draft coverage. We've got our first mock
Speaker 1: draft of draft season, maybe the last, probably the last,
Speaker 1: with Nate Tice coming up on our Tuesday show, so
Speaker 1: stay tuned for that one. We got DJ later in
Speaker 1: the week. We got a great week. A guess Nick
Speaker 1: Schuck coming up to football's back didn't land it