1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Finally will there be a 2 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: resolution in the case the mystery swirling around Hollywood star 3 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin. Interesting, this is always called the Alec Baldwin 4 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: homicide case. Why because he's the movie star. No one 5 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: ever seems to call it the Helena Hutchins case, the 6 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: beautiful young married mom that's dead leaving her son behind 7 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: to be raised without a mother. Why is it always 8 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: the Alec Baldwin case. And then, of course I call 9 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: this a two for one now when Alec Baldwin pulled 10 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: the trigger in even though he got on National TV 11 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: said he did not pull the trigger. Of course he 12 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: pulled the trigger. He needs to stop saying that and 13 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: come up with something different, like I pulled the trigger, 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: but I thought it was a fake bullet. Now that 15 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: I would believe. But to try to tell me I 16 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: didn't pull the trigger, that's going to paint him a 17 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: liar in front of the jury. But what I'm trying 18 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: to say is there was another person that was shot. 19 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: Remember the director Joel Susa, there's no charge at all 20 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: for his shooting. Well with me to make sense of 21 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: it all is an all star panel. But first, just 22 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: to as we say in court, refresh our recollections. Take 23 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: a listen to this nine one one call one. What's 24 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: the location of your emergency? We need a net. We 25 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: need an ambulance out Bonanza Creek Ranch right now. We 26 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: got two people shot on a movie set accidentally. He 27 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: said someone was shot. Two people accidentally shot? Add on 28 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: movie set? That Nanza Creek ranched it an act you 29 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: with medical desct you don't need up. Who are you calling? 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: Clear the roads? Donation publicational emergency. Financer Cree Grants will set. 31 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: Some people accidentally shot on a movie set by a 32 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: prop done. We need help immediately. Financer Cree Grant to 33 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: come on, say on the phone with me. We're gonna 34 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: get some help. Okay, okay, what is your name? Namy Mitchell, 35 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: Miss Mitchell? Want the phone number? You're calling some five ups? 36 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: Don't hang up? Okay, hold on just one second. It 37 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: sounds like somebody else is calling for soon and going 38 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: else is probably better, Mitch. Its good. Everybody should be. 39 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: We need some help of director in our camera man 40 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: as cramea woman is and during these minutes on nine 41 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: one one, Helena Hutchins life just slipped away. All this 42 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: on the scene of movie Rust. I mean, it's he grace. 43 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here 44 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and series XM one eleven. As they 45 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Hollywood star Alec Baldwin will not be charged 46 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: for shooting Rust director Joel Susa despite firing the gun, 47 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: because they're in that jurisdiction. It's no such thing as 48 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: an unintentional battery. Now, before we get started, when you 49 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: think of homicide, most people think of murder. There's several 50 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: different types of homicide. There's murder, felony murder, which is 51 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: when simply a death occurs during the commission of a felony. 52 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: You don't even have to mean to do it. Like 53 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: I'm robbing a bank and I say, Jackie, john't pull 54 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: out your gun and suggar happy jack Jackie, of course 55 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: does pull out a gun when I'm not looking and 56 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: shoots a bank teller. Well, guess what I'm charged with. 57 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: Felony murder because a death occurred while I was committing 58 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: a felony a bank robbery textbook felony murder. Then you've 59 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: got malice murder that is intentional murder with premeditation. Premeditation 60 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: can be in the blink of an eye, the time 61 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: it takes me to pull out a gun and pull 62 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: the trigger. That's premeditation. It doesn't have to be a 63 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: long drawn out plan like that. I try to poison 64 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: Jackie over there by putting a little arsenic in her 65 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: horrible coffee every morning, and then suddenly she heels over 66 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: and dies. Of course, that's premeditated murder. So now I've 67 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: implicated you in a murder and killed you in the 68 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: last five minutes. Then you've got a voluntary manslaughter that's 69 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: often called heat of passion. When you're so angry you 70 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: pull a gun and a jury kind of lets you 71 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: off with a lesser charge that usually gives you a 72 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: sentence of twenty And then we're down to Alec Baldwin's charge. 73 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: Unintentional murder, unintentional homicide, in voluntary manslaughter. That's what we're 74 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: looking at. However, again, this is quite the freebee. Baldo 75 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: will not be charged for shooting the director Joel Susan again, 76 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: as I said an All Star panel, to make sense 77 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: of what we know right now. But first I'm going 78 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: to go straight out to Alexis terres Chuck joining me 79 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: out of Hollywood crimoline dot Com investigative reporter. What are 80 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: the charges against Baldwin? So the first charge against him 81 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: is called involuntary manslaughter, and for this to be proved, 82 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: there must be underlying negligence. So what this means is, 83 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: under New Mexico's law, it's a fourth degree felony. It's 84 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: punishable by up to eighteen months in jail any five 85 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: thousand dollars funds. But what means that there has to 86 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: be for some reason that they didn't do something right. Now, 87 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: Alec was a producer on this movie, so he was 88 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: in charge of hiring all the people. So he hired 89 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: somebody who didn't do their job. That's his fault. That 90 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: could be the underlying negligence there. Okay, I'm sorry. It 91 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: sounds like you're completely claiming Balin has nothing to do 92 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: with it because he didn't hire everyone. Isn't he a 93 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: producer on this? Isn't he responsible for hiring? Yes, because 94 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: he did hire everyone, he is responsible for How about 95 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: the fact that he pulled the trigger. I'm sorry, I'm 96 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: just kind of hung up on that. I've got a 97 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: dead body, a little boy raised without a mother, and 98 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: he pulled the trigger, he says, he didn't pull the trigger. Okay, 99 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: you know, alexis little Maybe maybe little green men from 100 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: ours came down and went invisible. Maybe they pulled the trigger. Maybe, 101 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: but not probable, you know, but I've got this, uh, 102 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,799 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, hold on with me. Is Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, 103 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: author of Red Flag. She's at Wendy Patrick PhD dot 104 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 1: com and she's a star of Today with doctor Wendy KCBQ. Wendy, 105 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, I very rarely will argue for the defense, 106 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: But when you go into a trial, I think you'll 107 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: agree with me on this, and you're prosecuting a case, 108 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: you have to anticipate what the other side is going 109 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: to do. And we all know that accident is a 110 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: complete defense, just like self defense. It's a complete defense. 111 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: Of course, self defense is not an issue here, but 112 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: accident is a complete defense. And if Alec Baldwan can 113 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: persuade this jury, yes, I pulled the trigger, but I 114 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: thought it was full of fake bullets. It was supposed 115 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: to be a prop gun with prop pretend bullets. This 116 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: was an accident. If he can do that, he will win. 117 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, Yeah, you know, it's an interesting argument. Nancy, 118 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: because he's charged with those two involuntary mansload accounts in 119 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: the alternative count one of course requiring negligence counter requiring recklessness. 120 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: But you and I have been a trial. Both those 121 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: terms are ambiguous to jurors who may be so convinced 122 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: that both charges wanted to wear accidents, even though they'll 123 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: have the jury instructions talking about standard of care, how 124 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: everybody should have a duty to inspect the gun, whether 125 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: or not he's acting as a producer or as the 126 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: actor who pulled the trigger that fires the shot that 127 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: killed Helena. Both of the kinds of questions that are 128 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: tricky for juries to answer when you do have this 129 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: accident defense. So I agree, regardless of them having all 130 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: the technicalities of the law, it's still maybe a tough 131 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: case in that respect. Joining me as Paul Ze, former 132 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: police commander out New Mexico authors stop him from Killing 133 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: Them on Amazon, Kendall, Paul's like, it's great to have you. 134 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: What do you make of the defense that bald almost 135 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: surely raised that this was an accident or is he 136 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: going to try and climb he didn't pull the trigger, 137 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: which is crazy? Hello, Nancy, Well he's attempted to say 138 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: that he didn't pull the trigger on multiple occasions during 139 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: multiple interviews. The reality of guns don't fire themselves, and 140 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: in this case a single action firearm, the hammer has 141 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: to be pulled back and then you have to have 142 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: some sort of pressure or pull the trigger and drop 143 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: the hammer release it to fire the cartridge. So I 144 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: think that's a tough road for him to climb. You 145 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: know what, if he tries to tell this jury, I 146 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: didn't pull the trigger, they're going to hold that against him. 147 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: If he says, yes, okay, I pull the trigger, but 148 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: I thought it was a prop gun. Why he may 149 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: be precluded from saying that now because he has blabbed. 150 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: Ali Baba could not keep his yaps shut. He blabbed 151 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: on multiple outlets. Let's take a listen to our cut 152 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: twenty five A. This is him on the Quotema project. 153 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: Every single person on the set of the film knows 154 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: what happened. And the people that are talking loudest about 155 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: what happened respeculating about what happened. We're not on the 156 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: set of the film. The La Times, the Hollywood Reporter. 157 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: They talk on and on and on about what if this, 158 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: and what if that, and have dined out on this. 159 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: And the thing that they have in common is nobody 160 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: was there and everybody who was there. They know exactly 161 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: what happened. They know exactly who's to blame. Blah blah blah. Yeah, 162 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: and I think they will exactly leave the States when 163 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: is this crime stories with Nancy Grace. Every single person 164 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,599 Speaker 1: on the set of the film knows what happened. And 165 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: the people that are talking loudest about what happened, respeculating 166 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: about what happened, we're not on the set of the film. 167 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: The LA Times, the Hollywood Reporter, they talk on and 168 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: on and on about what if this and what if that, 169 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: and have dined out on this. And the thing that 170 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: they have in common is nobody was there and everybody 171 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: who was there. They know exactly what happened. They know 172 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: exactly who was to blame. Blah blah blah. What does 173 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: that mean? And Hollywood Reporter at LA Time so quote 174 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: dined out on this to Eliza's terres, chuck, what does 175 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: that mean? I think what Alex is saying is the 176 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: two most respected publications in Los Angeles are making money 177 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: off of him by saying they dined out and that 178 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: they just make money blaming him because he's a big star. 179 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: Because Alex is absolutely insistent that he is not to 180 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: blame in this situation. However, the thing is, the Hollywood 181 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: Reporter and the La Times spoke to people who were 182 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: on set. They're on the record, they've spoken to the FBI, 183 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: they've spoken to the investigators in New Mexico. So I 184 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: don't think that they are just making things up because 185 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: the reporter specifically wasn't on set when it happened. You 186 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: know what, it sounds like a lot of finger pointing 187 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: to me, Jack and said, sounds like, oh, the Hollywood Reporter, 188 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: or they're so evil the only times they're so evil, 189 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. They're making money off of me. He 190 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: needs to focus on Helena Hutchins. She's dead and he 191 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: pulled the trigger now with me. Guys, is an expert. 192 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: His name is Johannes kim Uno. He is a film 193 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: and safety expert for TV sets and film projects, CEO 194 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: and VIP of Star Network at vip starnetwork dot com. 195 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: He knows his way around a prop gun. So, Johannas Kimuno, 196 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut 197 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: twenty four. This is coming from Tina potel Kl. Now 198 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: why did he say that if he didn't know, if 199 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: he hadn't checked. The point is all of us were 200 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: told that everything was cool and you can relax, and 201 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: we're working with a gun that's safe taveraswa lubly. He 202 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: explained it to me effectively. That's exactly what can happen 203 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: if you pull a hammer back and let it go 204 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: if there's a live round. See, there's only one question 205 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: to ask her, who put a live round in the gun? 206 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: That's it. There is no other question to ask. Oh. Wow, 207 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: when he says it in the main voice, I guess 208 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: that means it's real. Well, apparently the local district attorney 209 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: doesn't agree with me. Johanna kim Wayno, Johannes, thank you 210 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: for being with us, Thank you so much. Sure, what 211 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: do you believe happened? Well, I think there was a 212 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: from even hearing that script just now that that take 213 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: most importantly, where's the checks and balance? Where's the oversight? 214 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: He mentions there that you know the firearm was checked, 215 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: that he believed that there was a dummy round, But 216 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: clearly from all the reports in the last year, and 217 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: a half of going back and forth and seeing what 218 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: alc Baldon said on many different statements that he made 219 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: both in my TV but also an interviews, the statement 220 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: to be made to the local police. It seems as 221 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: if there was little to no oversight on that set 222 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: all together, and whom as a producer, was fully responsible 223 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: for that overstay. Okay, you're saying that as a producer 224 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: on for instance, he's not just the actor. He was 225 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: an executive producer to my understanding, right Johanness, That's right. 226 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: So it's not just that he pulled a trigger, it's 227 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: also that he was kind of in charge of the 228 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: whole thing as the executive producer. Ninety When we look 229 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: at producers that are going to go to any state 230 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: and to make a film, they have to be responsible 231 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: for the entire production, and so looking at it from 232 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: both alcohols that being a producer also being responsible for 233 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: hiring the health and safety supervisors the entire department from 234 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: strat from A to B to see all the way around, 235 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: how there was clearly a lack of understanding of what 236 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: needed to happen to create a safe working condition. Take 237 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: a listen to the district attorney. He was the actor 238 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: that pulled the trigger, so certainly he's charged as an actor, 239 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: but also as a producer, he also had a duty 240 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: to make sure that the set was safe, and we 241 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: know from our investigation that there had been accidental misfires 242 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: prior to this, that there were people that were complaining 243 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: about safety on set, and so he should have been 244 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: aware that safety was an issue on set, and then 245 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: as an actor that day, he should have checked that gun, 246 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: checked those projectiles. You know, though, to doctor Gianni Pirelli 247 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: joining US board certified forensic psychologist, owner Perelli Clinical Forensic 248 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: Psychology and author of Firearms and Clinical Practice a hand 249 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: but for medical mental health professionals you can find him 250 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: a Gperelli dot com. Doctor Pirelli, thank you for being 251 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: with us. I'm still saying the jury is going to 252 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: be in a rock and a hard spot. I'll tell 253 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: you why. He is saying, I thought there was a blank. 254 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: I didn't realize there was a live round in there, 255 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: and I think the jury can't believe that. Now, if 256 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: he tries to lye and say I didn't pull the trigger, 257 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: he's going to lose all credibility. But I think they're 258 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: torn between a dead mom with a little boy and 259 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: husband left behind, and Alec Baldwin trying to lie his 260 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: way out of it if it's an accident. That's a 261 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: complete and total defense. And there's another layer that you know, 262 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: of course, as a forensic psychologist, you know occurs to 263 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: me because my involvement in a lot of these types 264 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: of matters. Not that unintentional firem deaths are very rare, 265 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: about one percent of all gun deaths. But you know 266 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: what occurs to me is he's also very shocked and 267 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: emotionally distraught, Okay, And that's another layer that the jury's 268 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: going to see as well, right because whether it's we 269 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: don't no one's really suggesting it's intentional. But I should 270 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: say that even an intentional shooting, you know, control traumatize someone, frankly, 271 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: in certain circumstances, but certainly an unintentional one can. And 272 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: when you see him looking terrible, frankly, you know, in 273 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: the interviews over the last year and a half with 274 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: he did a George Stephanopolis interview in December of twenty one, 275 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: and as to your point of his talking a lot, 276 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: he said I really can't wait, you know, and he 277 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: was crying multiple times and then you see many Instagram 278 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: posts about all kinds of things over this time. You know, 279 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: he's just you know, kind of always out there. I 280 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: guess as a celebrity that's his go to. But he's 281 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: also someone this is very interesting. He's also someone who 282 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: has openly spoke about this is before the shooting, in 283 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: the past, about having severe OCD, okay, and having a 284 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: troubled childhood. And so he's probably someone who's obsessive and 285 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: has intrusive thoughts at some level in addition to some 286 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: other issues. And so now you have somebody who has 287 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: very likely been traumatized at some level. Okay, Now he 288 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: also has to defend himself. And obviously I'm not to 289 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: take a position on you. You are the legal professionals here, 290 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: not me. But in terms of the mental health component, 291 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: remember that a jury is also going to potentially see 292 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: a very sympathetic figure in him. And you have the 293 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: complaints and counter complaints in the civil side of things, 294 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: and his wife's Instagram post. You know, you hear these 295 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: words agony, torture and all these kind of words that 296 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: are reflecting how he looks. Frankly, you know, he does 297 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: look that way. Now he's an actor, So maybe that 298 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: will be in their minds as well. I don't know, 299 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: but it's a little bit hard to fake. I mean, 300 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: two things can be true at the same time. He 301 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: could be guilty, that's a legal kind of concept, of course, 302 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: but he could also be traumatized, and so that's something 303 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: we have to pay attention to as well. And we 304 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: talk about the presentation in front of jurors. You know, 305 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: this is Wendy. Let me just say those are great points. 306 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: The issue is going to be how much of that 307 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: it's going to be admissible in the criminal case. All 308 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 1: that's going to go to sentencing if there's a conviction, 309 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: because it's been a a mitigation, But in terms of 310 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: his background and what he was feeling and what he 311 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: may have been doing in the past and pass trauma, 312 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: that probably won't be admissible. In terms of was he negligent, 313 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: was he reckless? Because the standard of care on the set, 314 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: that's probably going to come down to a battle of experts, 315 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: but it would probably also include what did he know, 316 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: what should he have known, and how should he have 317 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: handled that gun? He had a duty to ensure the 318 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: revolver was taked to handle. Those are the words from 319 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: the DA. So it's an interesting mix of the jury 320 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: may not know a lot of what they otherwise might 321 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: look at determine whether or not it's an accident, so 322 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: there'd be no criminal culpability. But don't you agree, Wendy. 323 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: If they if the jury believes it's an accident, that 324 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: is a complete defense, they would find it as a 325 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,959 Speaker 1: complete defense, whether or not they also found he may 326 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: have been reckless or negligent, whether or not that's like 327 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: a nullification issue. They would have to believe that he 328 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: didn't fall below the standard of care and that he 329 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: didn't have that type of a duty. It's going to 330 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: be really tricky, Nan, and that's one of the reasons 331 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: we rarely see these types of prosecutions. Well, you're right. 332 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,239 Speaker 1: Another thing. I believe it was doctor Gianni Parelli who 333 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: mentioned his wife Hilaria and her many many posts, the 334 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: constant discussion of how devastated they are. I don't know 335 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: with Helena Hutchins family grieving and mourning their act so 336 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: called agony pales in comparison to what Helena Hutchins family 337 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: is going through. As a matter of fact, speaking of 338 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: Helena Hutchins, which in my mind that's what the case 339 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: is all about. To doctor Jan gourneyatte renowned medical examiner 340 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: joining us out of Clark County, Doctor Gourneyatt, it's a 341 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: real honor to have you all with us. Thank you 342 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: for joining us. What did Helena Hutchins suffer at the 343 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: time of her shooting death. She suffered from obviously a 344 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: gunshot wound of the chest. And I'm going to go 345 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: back a little bit because I'm hearing about it being 346 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: an accident, and so I'm a purist as it comes 347 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: to manner of death. So in the manner of death 348 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: comes about, you know, the circumstances that led up to 349 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: someone's death. And in this case, it's between an accident 350 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: and a homicide. And so listening to the past dialogue 351 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: before I got on about if you know, Alec Balwin 352 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: can say that this is an accident, the jury believes 353 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: it's an accident. The medical examiner in this case ruled 354 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: the death meaning manner of death, as an accident. But 355 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: that's an opinion. And I and like I said, being 356 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: a purist, I would have ruled this case a homicide 357 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: because our definition is death at the hands of another. 358 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: We don't get into intent. We don't get into whether 359 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: it was a prop gun, whether they knew there was, 360 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: you know, a dummy bullet in it, or whatever. So 361 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: that might also play a role in how the jury 362 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: sees it, because the medical exam would ruled it an accident. Also, well, 363 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: doctor Gorniac, you're absolutely correct. Take a listen to the 364 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: district attorney. Just because it's an accident doesn't mean that 365 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: it's not criminal. Our involuntary manslaughter statute covers unintentional killings, 366 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: unintentional homicides. The rest of our homicide statues cover intentional 367 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: but unintentional means they didn't mean to do it, They 368 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: didn't have the intent to kill, but it happened anyway, 369 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: and it happened because of more than mere negligence, because 370 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: of the they didn't exercise due caution or circumspection, and 371 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: that's what happened here. If I could maneuver it this way, 372 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: I would always bring on the medical examiner, either first 373 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: if I laid a legal foundation for the medical exam 374 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: or testify, or last to work up to a big finale, 375 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: or to start with a bang. Because you just pointed 376 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: out something I don't believe I've heard any other expert analyze, 377 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: and that is the medical examiner in Helena Hutchin's case 378 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: ruled it an accident. And I was very surprised about that, 379 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: because the m E is not to make a legal decision, 380 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: but a medical decision. And as you said, doctor Gourniett, 381 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: you are a purist, and whenever someone dies at the 382 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: hand of the other, that's a homicide. So I was 383 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: also very surprised when I first read it. But the 384 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: reason I'm telling you about how I would put the 385 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: medical examiner to either begin or in the case because 386 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: I always found their testimony so powerful and knowledgeable. Plus, 387 00:23:54,520 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: gerars love doctors. You must know that doctor Gournett, with 388 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: this medical exam or state that it was an accident, 389 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: that's going to have a profound effect on the jury. 390 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Gorneyette, that is absolutely correct, because obviously, when we 391 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: do autopsies, and our job is to determine causing manner 392 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: that we just don't receive a body, right. We have 393 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: to know all the circumstances, including toxicology. You know, what 394 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: were the circumstances, you know, the gun this and this, 395 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: and sometimes we might even say that if the gun 396 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: quote unquote accidentally discharged, we would have the firearm interrogated 397 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: to see is that possible, right that was the weapon 398 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: malfunctioning and based on the information that I know, right, 399 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: you know, the trigger had to be pulled, whether someone 400 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: remembers pulling it or not, whether they did or did not, 401 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: that we can't prove or disprove their their thoughts, but 402 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: we can we would prove whether the firearm was a 403 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: you know, with functioning properly. And like I said, in 404 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: a case like this, I think in my seventeen year career, 405 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: I've called a firearm injury an accident twice out of all, right, 406 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: we I've even had, unfortunately a twelve year old shoot 407 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: heard nine year old brother quote unquote accidentally. But in 408 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: the pure sense that's death at the hands of another. 409 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: We don't whether you meant to do it with their 410 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: intention behind it. And then we leave the charges up 411 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: to law enforcement and prosecutors on how they want to 412 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: perceive that way. But this might be a difficult one 413 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: because you know, as a jury member might see, well, 414 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: the medical examiners said this is an accident exactly, But 415 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: how many accidents on the set amount to criminal negligence. 416 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: That's going to be the issue for the jury. Accidents happened, 417 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: but if they happen repeatedly on the same set, then 418 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: you're sacrificed. I think speed for safety. They're going to 419 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: think that it rise to the level of the duty 420 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: of care that was violated. So they may be able 421 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: to think back the prosecutor, the New Mexico prosecutor used 422 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: the word accident, But that doesn't mean that he's not 423 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: going to be found guilty because how many times do 424 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: you have to really compromise that safety standard to where 425 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: they're going to be able to say he should have 426 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: known that this was a dangerous set, or he should 427 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: have checked the gun. Guys, I want you to take 428 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut sixty eight. This is this 429 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: is from our forensic ko at the film sets. Armorer 430 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: Hannah Gutierez Read is the daughter of a well known 431 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: prop master fell Read. She's also facing the same charge 432 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: of involuntary manslaughter as Baldwin that includes the possible mandatory 433 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: five year sentence. Assistant director David Halls reached a plea agreement. 434 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: He will plead guilty to negligent use of a deadly 435 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: weapon and will face six months of probation back to 436 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: Johannes Chimwno, film and TV safety expert and VIP of 437 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: Star Network dot Com. Johannas again, thank you for being 438 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: with us. Now, if I had been trying this case, 439 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: I would have put both of these two on trial 440 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: together and let them stew in the same pot. Because 441 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: Baldwin is blaming her. Hannah Guttera's read. She was the 442 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: prop master, she was in charge of all the weapons, 443 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: the fake bullets. Was her responsibility to know there were 444 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: blanks in there. She's blaming him. He's the one that 445 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: pulled the trigger. I would absolutely let them stew together 446 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: in the same pot. What do you make of each 447 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: one of them pointing the finger at the other, Johannas well, Natcy, 448 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: I think there's going to be a lot that comes 449 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: from this in terms of discovery and going through the 450 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: entire process a trial, if you were to have both 451 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: events doing the same pot as you just mentioned, and 452 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: hearing many of the experts trime in on many aspects 453 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: of the case right now as it stands, but looking 454 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: prior to it, I heard the comment from one of 455 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: the experts on this call state the standard of care 456 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: and the standard of the environment based on the production, 457 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 1: and I think that's going to be an interesting look 458 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: at him. What are these standards and how do we 459 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: assess these standards based on the situation that's facing somebody 460 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: that Alina Hutchinson as well as many of the people 461 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: that were involved all the parties, whether it's Hannagatiers read, 462 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: whether it's Alec Baldwin as well as I don't think 463 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: anybody's mentioned their first assistant director, Swalloza. From my understanding, 464 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: he took a plete bill, So is he going to 465 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: be also brought in to testify against Alec Baldwin as 466 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: well as Hannacacier is read, well, put your honest I 467 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: think that's very possible. And all the people that Baldwin 468 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: was on TV talking about that they're the ones that 469 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: know what really happened, Well, guess what they they're going 470 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: to be state's witnesses. But speaking of Hannah Gutier's read, 471 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut seventy our friends at ABC. 472 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: This is a major, really significant finding here. When you 473 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: talk about Hannah Gautier as read for Starters, she was 474 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: just twenty four years old. It was her second time 475 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: serving as an armorer on a movie set and She 476 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: has said all along through her attorney that this was 477 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: simply Alec Baldwin's fault, point blank, that he pulled the trigger. 478 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: Of course, you know, in that now famous, infamous interview 479 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: that Alec Baldwin did with George Stephanopolis, he denied, he 480 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: disputed ever pulling the trigger. The FBI has now said 481 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: that based on their findings, that they have concluded that 482 00:29:50,640 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: the gun otherwise would not have fired. Crime stories with 483 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is a major, really significant finding here. 484 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: When you talk about Hannah gutierres read for Starters, she 485 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: was just twenty four years old. It was her second 486 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: time serving as an armorer on a movie set, and 487 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: she has said all along through her attorney that this 488 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: was simply Alec Baldwin's fault, point blank, that he pulled 489 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: the trigger. Of course, you know, in that now famous 490 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: infamous interview that Alec Baldwin did with George Stephanopolis, he denied, 491 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: he disputed ever pulling the trigger. The FBI has now 492 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: said that, based on their findings, that they have concluded 493 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: that the gun otherwise would not have fired. Okay, you 494 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: know what, all this I didn't pull the trigger business. 495 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: That's going to be squelched by the FBI, and Alexis 496 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: Terress chuck. He should never ballin, should never have gone 497 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: on TV and blamed. He should never have given interviews ever, 498 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: because everything he said can be played back to the 499 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: jury and him going I didn't pull the trigger, Well, 500 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: that makes him out a liar because the FBI says, yes, 501 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: you did. We tested not just a gun, but the 502 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: gun and somebody pulled the trigger. They did, and the 503 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: FBI said, with the hammer, they said it was in 504 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: the quarter and a half cock position. So he pulled 505 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: it back a little bit. And then the gun and 506 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: quote from the FBI report, it says could not be 507 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: made to fire without a pull of the trigger. And 508 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: so that's the FBI. This is what they do. Alec 509 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: Baldwin is an actor. He's very good at pretending to 510 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: have feelings about anything. So if he's crying or anything 511 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: else that you have to remember this is his job 512 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: that he has had won multiple awards for decades. Absolutely, 513 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,719 Speaker 1: and I gotta tell you I love him as an actor. 514 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: I don't care about him one way or the other. Politically, 515 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: I don't give a flying fig about what he thinks politically. 516 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: I don't know why celebrities always want to tell us 517 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,959 Speaker 1: what they think about politics while they're speaking from their 518 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: multimillion dollar mansion in Montecito or their penthouse in New York. 519 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: Don't care. But his acting is great, And speaking of that, 520 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: what effect will it have on this jury? Take a 521 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: list an hour cut seventy six from KOB four. Everybody's 522 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: been familiar with the Baldwin family for generations, right, Whether 523 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: you knew who Alec Baldwin was before the Rust movie 524 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: shooting or not, it seems safe to say everybody may 525 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: know who he is now, So how does this star 526 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: power affect a possible jury trial? And then it's a 527 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: little different situation because it's not just Santa Fe news 528 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: covering this NonStop. It's national news. So there's not really 529 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: another jurisdiction within the state that probably would be fairer 530 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: in terms of not having as much access to the 531 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: media or watching it or knowing the facts. Okay, to you, 532 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: Alexis Terrescha, crime online dot com investigative reporter, What about 533 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin's star power that's going to have a huge 534 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: effect on the jury. Although some of them may know 535 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: him more for his political leanings and may disagree or 536 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: agree with him, or he was known for playing Donald 537 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: Trump on Saturday Night Live. Okay, wait right there. I've 538 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: got three people sitting here, and every one of them 539 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: started laughing when you said that, three people from completely 540 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: different areas. One is from another country, and they all 541 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: smiled when you said that. So if they all know 542 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: about it, then somebody, at least one person on the 543 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: jury's going to know about it. And of course, Wendy Patrick, 544 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: California prosecutor, it doesn't matter if the jury's heart of 545 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin or even heard of this case. You don't 546 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: want somebody on the jury that's living under a rock 547 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: in the cave on the other side of the world. 548 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: That's right. All they have to do is agree that 549 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: they can make their decision based on the facts and 550 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: the evidence introduced at trial. But what about the star 551 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: power of the politics. Yeah, they don't go into politics, 552 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: probably in reverse order sometimes depending the fact that we 553 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: have a presidential election coming up that's gonna obviously be 554 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: an issue no matter where you move it, Nancy, we 555 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: could move it to the mood and you'd have three 556 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: people smiling. Nerd if that was Baldwin in this case. 557 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: It probably saw his recitations on Saturday Night Live. When 558 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: you have a case involving a star that has this 559 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: much reach and has this much popularity for so many years, 560 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: I mean, we've been watching him for decades, it's going 561 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: to be impossible to argue that there's any place you 562 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: could move it where he'd get a fairer trouble. And 563 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:06,919 Speaker 1: if we had it right in the jurisdiction where they're 564 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: familiar with it, I don't know what's the medical examiner. 565 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: I get someone stand and describes how Helena Hutchins suffered 566 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: and bled out, and you know, doctor Jane Gornia, I've 567 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: got a question. I remember when I got what I 568 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: thought was a terrible diagnosis from a doctor, and Praise 569 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: the Lord, it ended up being just fine. But all 570 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,959 Speaker 1: I could think about in those moments where my children John, 571 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: David and Lucy, so I thought about being raised without 572 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: a mother, and in those moments, that's what flashed into 573 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: my mind. And I find it really hard to believe 574 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: that as Helena Hutchins was bleeding out, she didn't think 575 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: about her child and her husband and her home, Like 576 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: why am I just not at home? Why am I 577 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: not with them? Well? I ever see them again as 578 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: her wife slipped away, and that that breaks my heart. 579 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 1: I think no juror is going to be impervious to that, right. 580 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: And and sometimes you know, as physicians we just speak 581 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: the science right, just what we're seeing. Um. But yeah, 582 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: that does play into my mind sometimes too, because these deaths, 583 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: most of the deaths that we deal with are not immediate. 584 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: So yes, there, I mean, she unfortunately is you know, 585 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: has been shot in the chest and she what we say, 586 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: is bleeding out. Um. The projectile also hit her spinal cord, 587 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 1: so she probably couldn't move her life. So not only 588 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: the fear you know that you're you're going through, um, 589 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: but also like you're you're pointing out what quote unquote 590 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: flashes before your eyes, like am I going to see 591 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: my kids again? My husband? You know? Is this life 592 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: in what people's minds, you know, go through at that point? 593 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 1: Is sometimes you rather not think about it. Oh, I 594 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: would much rather not think about it. Yep, guys, I 595 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: think it's all said perfectly by Mary Kormick Al Twice 596 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: the district attorney take a list of our cut eighty one. 597 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: There was such a lack of safety and safety standards 598 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: on that set that there were live rounds on set, 599 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: they were mixed in with regular dummy rounds. Nobody was 600 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: checking those, or at least they weren't checking them consistently, 601 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 1: and then they somehow got loaded into a gun handed 602 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: off to Alec Baldwin. He didn't check it, he didn't 603 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: do any of the things that he was supposed to 604 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: do to make sure that he was safe or that 605 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: anyone around him was safe, and then he pointed the 606 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: gun at Helena Hutchins and he pulled the trigger. Every 607 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: person that handles a gun has a duty to make 608 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: sure that if they are going to handle that gun 609 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: pointed at someone and pull the trigger, that it is 610 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: not going to fire a projectile and kill someone. And 611 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: this is really about justice for Elena Hutchins. We've talked 612 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,479 Speaker 1: to many actors, a list and otherwise that have said 613 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: that they always check their guns or they have someone 614 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: check it in front of them. So it's not an 615 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: actor doesn't get a free pass just because they're an actor. 616 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: And that's what's so important is that we're saying here 617 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: in New Mexico, everyone's equal under the law. Everyone has 618 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: to follow their duties and do what's right and take 619 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: that safety into account so that this doesn't ever happen again. 620 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: There you have, that's a whole opening statement right there. 621 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfals. Goodbye,