WEBVTT - A Tipping Point 0:00:17.242 --> 0:00:30.362 Pushkin in twenty fifteen, Western Indonesia and Singapore were covered 0:00:30.402 --> 0:00:32.042 in toxic black smoke. 0:00:32.442 --> 0:00:35.321 They had family living in Singapore and they couldn't breathe 0:00:35.362 --> 0:00:38.922 for months. It was just billowing black beet smoke. 0:00:39.362 --> 0:00:42.682 Tim Sahai is a climate policy expert at Johns Hopkins. 0:00:42.802 --> 0:00:46.242 We talked to him last episode. Like everyone else living 0:00:46.282 --> 0:00:48.962 in Singapore at the time, his family was living in 0:00:49.042 --> 0:00:53.522 hazy smoke for months. Culprit wasn't a forest fire. It 0:00:53.682 --> 0:00:56.842 was well, in a way, kind of everything we've been 0:00:56.882 --> 0:01:01.562 talking about this season. The US had passed laws incentivizing 0:01:01.642 --> 0:01:05.161 corn ethanol, so all the corn that used to be 0:01:05.282 --> 0:01:08.842 used for corn oil in cooking was being used for 0:01:08.962 --> 0:01:14.362 ethanol instead. World needed a replacement for cheap cakes and cookies, 0:01:14.522 --> 0:01:17.601 and it found it in palm oil. Throughout the early 0:01:17.601 --> 0:01:21.841 two thousands, much of the rainforests of Borneo were replaced 0:01:21.842 --> 0:01:26.321 with palm oil plantations, and plantation owners would use fire 0:01:26.881 --> 0:01:30.642 to quickly clear the rainforests. Then that fire would spread 0:01:30.762 --> 0:01:35.441 to dried out peatland, which can burn underground for weeks. 0:01:36.161 --> 0:01:40.841 You ended up with vast underground peat fires in Indonesia 0:01:40.922 --> 0:01:43.282 that you just couldn't put out. You just couldn't put 0:01:43.282 --> 0:01:46.122 them out, so it is billowing it all out right, 0:01:46.202 --> 0:01:49.162 And a billion tons of CO two were produced. 0:01:49.402 --> 0:01:52.442 From June to October twenty fifteen, about two and a 0:01:52.482 --> 0:01:57.522 half million hectares of Indonesia burned. When Tim sees what's 0:01:57.522 --> 0:02:00.681 happening now with corn ethanol in the US and Brazil, 0:02:01.322 --> 0:02:04.562 he thinks about what his family members went through in Singapore. 0:02:05.202 --> 0:02:07.722 So if you grow soybean oil, for example, you grow 0:02:07.762 --> 0:02:11.242 corn oil and you say, okay, great, this thing is 0:02:11.282 --> 0:02:14.681 awesome and green, And now everybody starts to make sort 0:02:14.682 --> 0:02:18.281 of more corn oil, and that can sort of cause 0:02:18.282 --> 0:02:22.082 the displacement of land that was previously growing something else. 0:02:22.642 --> 0:02:24.602 And so then the question becomes, how do you count 0:02:24.682 --> 0:02:28.682 that displaced the amount of land into your accounting methods. 0:02:29.282 --> 0:02:32.762 Meaning there's a domino effect to growing more corn for fuel. 0:02:33.482 --> 0:02:37.082 In Mato Grosso, where Bruce Rastetter and his Brazilian business 0:02:37.122 --> 0:02:41.322 partners Marino Franz, Palo Franz and Miguel vas Ribero have 0:02:41.522 --> 0:02:45.682 driven a massive corn boom, we've seen displacement of a 0:02:45.762 --> 0:02:49.722 bunch of other kinds of agriculture and vegetation, not to 0:02:49.762 --> 0:02:53.442 mention a whole lot more pollution in the US, the 0:02:53.522 --> 0:02:58.362 Environmental Protection Agency used to require the business's account for 0:02:58.442 --> 0:03:02.602 this kind of impact. It was called land use and 0:03:02.722 --> 0:03:04.122 land use change. 0:03:04.442 --> 0:03:07.642 This sounds terribly dull, and everybody's as and eyes like 0:03:07.682 --> 0:03:10.962 you immediately glaze over. But you and I know that 0:03:11.122 --> 0:03:17.882 this has enormous, absolutely transformational, in fact, horrific impacts upon 0:03:17.922 --> 0:03:18.282 the world. 0:03:18.362 --> 0:03:18.522 Right. 0:03:18.522 --> 0:03:20.522 So, in the two thousand and seven sort of renewable 0:03:20.562 --> 0:03:24.162 fuel mandate, which is what created this enormous boom of 0:03:24.362 --> 0:03:26.762 corn ethanol in America, Well what happened. 0:03:29.042 --> 0:03:32.042 That's the renewable fuel standard that you heard Bruce Rastetter 0:03:32.202 --> 0:03:35.202 asking US politicians about in the last episode. 0:03:35.362 --> 0:03:38.762 Let's talk about the RFAs renewable fuels next subject. 0:03:38.882 --> 0:03:43.242 The RFAs, AAG industry backed politicians in the US Congress 0:03:43.402 --> 0:03:46.002 fought to get rid of the requirement to account for 0:03:46.162 --> 0:03:47.122 land use change. 0:03:47.722 --> 0:03:52.122 And the cheapest oil that was used for your cakes 0:03:52.122 --> 0:03:56.282 and for your cookies, you know, basically stopped becoming corn 0:03:56.322 --> 0:04:00.082 oil because corn oil prices went up, because CON's demand 0:04:00.202 --> 0:04:02.602 went up, and so well, what's going to be the 0:04:02.682 --> 0:04:06.722 cheapest oil became the question, and lo and behold that answer. 0:04:07.042 --> 0:04:12.002 Instead of corn oil became displaced into palm oil. And 0:04:12.282 --> 0:04:16.842 palm oil is one of the most horrifically like ecologically 0:04:16.962 --> 0:04:21.601 damaging things that happened was Indonesian rainforests were raised to 0:04:21.682 --> 0:04:24.882 the ground between two thousand and seven. In the next 0:04:24.882 --> 0:04:29.562 fifteen years in the forests of Sumatra Bonio, particularly Boneo, 0:04:30.002 --> 0:04:32.722 and those rainforests were raised to the ground and replaced 0:04:32.842 --> 0:04:39.442 with palm oil plantations. 0:04:40.322 --> 0:04:43.642 So the cornatinal boom in the US, driven by policies 0:04:43.682 --> 0:04:48.361 that industrial agg business lobbied for all under a giant 0:04:48.442 --> 0:04:53.042 green renewable fuels banner, increased the cost of food and 0:04:53.082 --> 0:04:57.322 created one of the world's biggest ecological disasters and carbon 0:04:57.362 --> 0:05:00.562 dioxide emitters in less than ten years. 0:05:01.122 --> 0:05:03.042 It's just like one of the most sort of shocking, 0:05:04.322 --> 0:05:08.002 shocking sort of features of what happens if you don't 0:05:08.122 --> 0:05:11.802 take into account that displaced land effect. 0:05:12.482 --> 0:05:17.402 Now agg businessmen are pushing for similar policies in Brazil. 0:05:17.722 --> 0:05:21.722 That's right, emmy. When the government started to regulate where sugar, cane, 0:05:21.762 --> 0:05:26.642 forth andol could be grown, corn ethanol entrepreneurs saw an opportunity. 0:05:27.242 --> 0:05:31.122 Here's Lucas Ferranci, the biologist at the National Institute for 0:05:31.202 --> 0:05:34.202 Amazonian Research that we heard from less. 0:05:34.002 --> 0:05:39.481 Time I think pretty seizing brachiv it is. 0:05:41.162 --> 0:05:43.962 People have to remember that one crop displaced is another 0:05:44.362 --> 0:05:47.082 to an area that will be deforested. We have a 0:05:47.122 --> 0:05:50.442 finite amount of land, and if we're introducing a new 0:05:50.482 --> 0:05:53.922 crop and all of the cops we have are expanding rapidly, 0:05:54.362 --> 0:05:56.322 where are the crops that made way for the sugar 0:05:56.402 --> 0:05:58.082 cane plantations going. 0:05:58.682 --> 0:06:01.962 Again, when policies or the market encouraged the expansion of 0:06:02.002 --> 0:06:05.802 a particular crop, that means whatever else was happening on 0:06:05.842 --> 0:06:09.762 that land that it expands to, whether it's undeveloped land 0:06:10.082 --> 0:06:13.042 or planted with a def fron crap is impacted. 0:06:14.082 --> 0:06:16.682 What does plantarstanage? Kind of just sugerical meceadus sponge? 0:06:17.282 --> 0:06:18.882 Who was all the scutures spam? 0:06:19.442 --> 0:06:22.882 When sugar cane plantations began to expand, some of the crops, 0:06:23.242 --> 0:06:27.762 especially livestock farming, expanded significantly, particularly at the border between 0:06:27.802 --> 0:06:31.842 the Serado and the Atlantic Forest, So there was massive deforestation. 0:06:32.562 --> 0:06:34.762 Then back in two thousand and eight, if I'm not mistaken, 0:06:35.162 --> 0:06:38.762 since sugar cane plantations were causing so much deforestation, a 0:06:38.882 --> 0:06:42.322 decree was issued by President Lula prohibiting their expansion into 0:06:42.362 --> 0:06:45.842 the Amazon and the pantanal. The intention was very good 0:06:45.922 --> 0:06:48.362 because it prevented high demand for a new crop from 0:06:48.442 --> 0:06:51.842 causing the degradation of that biome. However, the problem we 0:06:51.922 --> 0:06:54.242 need to remember is that the demand was for biofuels, 0:06:54.362 --> 0:06:57.322 not necessarily for sugar cane. We need a ban on 0:06:57.482 --> 0:07:00.202 crops for biofuel production in these biomes, not just on 0:07:00.362 --> 0:07:01.442 sugar cane crops. 0:07:07.442 --> 0:07:11.442 So a well intended environmental regulation led not all more 0:07:11.482 --> 0:07:15.482 deforestation to plant corn, but also to the embrace of 0:07:15.562 --> 0:07:19.242 a new type of ethanol that everyone already knew was 0:07:19.322 --> 0:07:20.002 less efficient. 0:07:22.802 --> 0:07:25.722 You meanone is. 0:07:25.682 --> 0:07:29.642 An advantageous for biofuel production. Sugar cane is much more efficient. 0:07:30.042 --> 0:07:32.722 Corn is only being used because of the band of sugarcane. 0:07:33.762 --> 0:07:37.082 That's right again, and why we've been focused on one 0:07:37.162 --> 0:07:40.362 particular company in their approach to this season. It is 0:07:40.482 --> 0:07:44.242 far from the only one. The problem is systemic. We've 0:07:44.282 --> 0:07:47.522 seen corn ethanol spread not just from the US to Brazil, 0:07:47.762 --> 0:07:50.442 but also from Brazil's middle est to other parts of 0:07:50.562 --> 0:07:53.802 the country. More than half the new corn ethanol plants 0:07:53.842 --> 0:07:58.002 being built in Brazil today are outside of Mattugrus. Green 0:07:58.122 --> 0:08:02.242 colonialism isn't green at all. Of course, it's just regular 0:08:02.442 --> 0:08:06.842 old colonialism with better marketing. But why has it been 0:08:06.922 --> 0:08:09.562 so easy for fake green solutions to take root and 0:08:09.682 --> 0:08:13.562 spread lip Sabrina with intercept to Brazil. 0:08:13.482 --> 0:08:18.002 And I'm Ami Westervelt with drilled Great question, Phillippe, especially 0:08:18.122 --> 0:08:22.442 since it's been far easier for these supposed solutions to 0:08:22.562 --> 0:08:27.602 take hold than real environmental solutions, even when there are 0:08:27.682 --> 0:08:30.762 so many examples of them causing new and sometimes worse 0:08:30.962 --> 0:08:32.802 environmental problems. 0:08:32.881 --> 0:08:37.122 Especially when those solutions like reducing consumption and energy use 0:08:37.682 --> 0:08:42.681 run counter to capitalism's model of endless growth. Today, in 0:08:42.842 --> 0:08:46.681 our final episode, the bigger systemic problem that Bruce and 0:08:46.801 --> 0:08:47.881 the guys represent. 0:08:48.681 --> 0:08:53.642 Welcome to the final episode of Carbon Cowboys, Cowboys after 0:08:53.681 --> 0:08:58.161 the break the three c's capitalism, colonialism, and climate change. 0:09:11.242 --> 0:09:16.242 Some political economists trace capitalism back to just the industrial Age, 0:09:16.482 --> 0:09:19.882 but in certain countries the US and Brazil, for example, 0:09:20.281 --> 0:09:23.761 you have to start earlier, and it starts with agriculture. 0:09:24.521 --> 0:09:29.281 In feudal Europe, a critical mass point was hit in 0:09:29.442 --> 0:09:32.841 the fourteenth century when the Little Ice Age arrived, and 0:09:32.962 --> 0:09:37.322 from there a great wave of peasant revolts defeated Europe's 0:09:37.482 --> 0:09:39.041 feudal ruling classes. 0:09:39.641 --> 0:09:43.202 That's environmental historian Jason Moore. He co authored the book 0:09:43.281 --> 0:09:46.201 A History of the World in Seven Cheap Things. It's 0:09:46.202 --> 0:09:50.441 about the way that capitalism has devalued nature and humanity. 0:09:51.041 --> 0:09:55.002 The Little Ice Age lasted from thirteen hundred to eighteen fifty. 0:09:55.602 --> 0:10:00.281 Scientists call it little because it only impacted the northern hemisphere, 0:10:00.401 --> 0:10:03.761 where temperatures dropped by a little more than half a degree. 0:10:04.442 --> 0:10:07.442 Side note that half a degree brought forth a complete 0:10:07.561 --> 0:10:11.482 societal revolution, So people who say a three or two 0:10:11.482 --> 0:10:14.162 of warming is no big deal might want to study 0:10:14.202 --> 0:10:14.762 this history. 0:10:15.561 --> 0:10:18.122 And to make a very long and complex story short, 0:10:19.082 --> 0:10:23.242 those ruling classes had to find a way to find 0:10:23.401 --> 0:10:25.721 riches and power because they have been defeated in the 0:10:25.761 --> 0:10:27.202 countryside of Western Europe. 0:10:27.921 --> 0:10:30.281 To do that, they had to look elsewhere, to other 0:10:30.362 --> 0:10:32.681 parts of the world where they might be able to 0:10:32.842 --> 0:10:38.002 acquire land and with it cheap labor. The Portuguese Empire, 0:10:38.161 --> 0:10:41.962 which eventually colonizes Brazil, is the first in the world 0:10:42.202 --> 0:10:46.202 to colonize land outside its realm, beginning with the island 0:10:46.362 --> 0:10:51.081 of Madera. The Spanish Empire reaches the Americas first and 0:10:51.242 --> 0:10:56.881 immediately begins capturing and enslaving indigenous people. More says there's 0:10:56.921 --> 0:10:59.921 a specific way they're able to justify this. 0:11:04.641 --> 0:11:08.162 Nature enters into the vernacular at this point to mean 0:11:08.681 --> 0:11:12.002 not human. And oh, by the way, most human beings 0:11:12.041 --> 0:11:14.322 who work for a living are put into the realm 0:11:14.362 --> 0:11:18.641 of nature. Women become the savages of Europe. As Sylvia 0:11:18.722 --> 0:11:24.521 Federici reminds us, the language of savagery, wildness, barbarism comes 0:11:24.801 --> 0:11:28.921 directly out of the English experience in Ireland, where the 0:11:29.041 --> 0:11:32.602 English learned how to practice genocide, which they then extend 0:11:33.082 --> 0:11:34.482 to the rest of the world. 0:11:34.602 --> 0:11:37.921 The Spaniards go and reorganize colonial Peru and then the 0:11:38.002 --> 0:11:41.562 process redefine indigenous peoples as naturalitis, as. 0:11:41.482 --> 0:11:42.161 Part of nature. 0:11:42.681 --> 0:11:44.722 So at this point that we get the whole man 0:11:44.881 --> 0:11:50.041 versus nature frameworks that we still hear from industrial agriculture today. 0:11:50.641 --> 0:11:54.321 This idea that it's man's job to dominate nature and 0:11:54.442 --> 0:11:55.281 extract from it. 0:11:55.722 --> 0:11:59.602 That message gets emphasized by religion. He is just one 0:11:59.681 --> 0:12:02.721 example from the preacher at the Baptist church in Sohizo, 0:12:02.921 --> 0:12:05.321 one of the towns near Lucas in mante Grosso. 0:12:10.242 --> 0:12:14.561 Then God's and let us make humankind in our image. 0:12:15.362 --> 0:12:16.482 They will be like us. 0:12:17.082 --> 0:12:21.561 They will rule repeat after me, they will rule over 0:12:21.641 --> 0:12:24.122 the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, 0:12:24.641 --> 0:12:28.281 over the domestic animals, over the wild animals, over all 0:12:28.561 --> 0:12:31.441 the creatures of the earth, and over the creatures that 0:12:31.641 --> 0:12:33.041 crawl on the ground. 0:12:33.962 --> 0:12:38.841 Right and Christianity intersects with not just colonialism and capitalism, 0:12:39.561 --> 0:12:43.482 but with the evolution of private property and agriculture too, 0:12:44.002 --> 0:12:47.482 helped along by the idea that Christians are more civilized 0:12:47.602 --> 0:12:50.042 and evolved than indigenous peoples. 0:12:50.801 --> 0:12:55.401 Right, the doctrine of Discovery gives Christians the right to 0:12:55.521 --> 0:12:58.602 take any land occupied by known Christians. 0:12:58.722 --> 0:13:02.962 And the philosophical musings of John Locke suggest that land 0:13:03.122 --> 0:13:07.082 should be owned by those who can improve it by 0:13:07.161 --> 0:13:10.922 doing things like cutting down trees, planting crops, raising animals, 0:13:11.122 --> 0:13:15.281 and building homes. This further justifies taking land from indigenous 0:13:15.322 --> 0:13:18.681 people because they quote unquote aren't using it, and from 0:13:18.722 --> 0:13:21.761 there it's just endless expansion. But at a certain point, 0:13:21.842 --> 0:13:28.201 colonists they run on a land. That happens in the 0:13:28.362 --> 0:13:31.082 US in the nineteen thirties between World. 0:13:30.921 --> 0:13:32.122 War One and World War Two, and that was the 0:13:32.202 --> 0:13:33.722 moment when there was no more. 0:13:33.722 --> 0:13:34.842 Land to sell. 0:13:35.281 --> 0:13:38.761 David Correa is a historical geographer at the University of 0:13:38.881 --> 0:13:42.722 New Mexico. He says, in this moment, just before World 0:13:42.761 --> 0:13:46.841 War Two, the US makes a turn toward industrialization because 0:13:46.921 --> 0:13:49.641 that's the only way to keep expanding once the physical 0:13:49.722 --> 0:13:52.761 option of more land is no longer available. 0:13:53.602 --> 0:13:57.961 So this is the age of new immigration restrictions, the 0:13:58.002 --> 0:14:02.402 industrialization of agriculture. It's the moment that like hybrid corn 0:14:02.561 --> 0:14:07.122 is is invented, which dramatically increases heels. 0:14:07.842 --> 0:14:11.641 Aha, there it is corn. So the very first steps 0:14:11.722 --> 0:14:15.961 the US takes in the direction of industrialized agriculture is 0:14:16.161 --> 0:14:17.281 in the cornfield. 0:14:17.881 --> 0:14:20.681 It's also like we can improve plants, we can improve people, right, 0:14:20.802 --> 0:14:23.162 so that this is the rise of eugenics. And their 0:14:23.242 --> 0:14:29.602 solution was convert the Sellar strategy of constant expansion into 0:14:30.602 --> 0:14:33.802 a different the same strategy, but like, but the expansion 0:14:33.802 --> 0:14:37.042 will happen like at a like a genetic level, so 0:14:37.162 --> 0:14:41.081 like we'll expand the genetic capacity of plants and the 0:14:41.202 --> 0:14:45.442 genetic capacity of people. So it's the same thing, an expansion. 0:14:45.681 --> 0:14:47.882 This is where the field of genetics is born. It 0:14:47.962 --> 0:14:52.522 actually starts in a cornfield where they're working on corn, 0:14:53.122 --> 0:14:55.602 so it's not an accident that it's a native crop. 0:14:56.681 --> 0:14:58.081 They focus all their energy on. 0:14:58.802 --> 0:15:02.601 First, you take indigenous land to improve it. Then you 0:15:02.722 --> 0:15:06.282 take an indigenous crop corn which had been grown by 0:15:06.362 --> 0:15:08.802 native people in what is now the United States for 0:15:09.002 --> 0:15:14.601 five thousand years before colonizers arrived, and modernize it. 0:15:17.602 --> 0:15:20.562 And you know what, Emmy, this sounds very familiar to us. 0:15:21.202 --> 0:15:24.962 In Brazil, agriculture has always been tied to two words, 0:15:25.482 --> 0:15:33.482 colonialism and exports. Another long and complicated story, but even 0:15:33.561 --> 0:15:37.162 since the Portuguese colonized the country, our economic cycles have 0:15:37.282 --> 0:15:41.242 been built around huge landholdings and monoculture crops looking to 0:15:41.362 --> 0:15:46.762 the international markets. The idea of agricultural modernization, though, the 0:15:46.882 --> 0:15:50.402 one that fascinates people like Bruce and his business partners, 0:15:50.882 --> 0:15:53.602 is much more recent. He took off in the late 0:15:53.802 --> 0:15:58.362 nineteen sixties, inspired, believe it or not, by the US model. 0:15:59.122 --> 0:16:04.122 That's when the machines arrived, along with pesticides, genetically modified seeds, 0:16:04.162 --> 0:16:05.602 and everything that came with them. 0:16:05.922 --> 0:16:09.441 Yes, exactly. So, when Bruce talks about what attracted him 0:16:09.482 --> 0:16:12.681 to Brazil, he always talked about how open the country 0:16:12.842 --> 0:16:15.122 is to US technology. 0:16:15.922 --> 0:16:19.602 Green colonialism is like the next phase of that expansion. 0:16:20.082 --> 0:16:20.922 It's a country that. 0:16:21.002 --> 0:16:24.122 Most readily accepts US technology outside. 0:16:23.681 --> 0:16:26.082 Of the US, Yeah, just through. 0:16:27.962 --> 0:16:32.081 It was the ecological destruction caused by colonialism that centuries ago, 0:16:32.282 --> 0:16:35.802 beginning in the seventeenth century, gave rise to a colonial 0:16:35.882 --> 0:16:38.122 concern for environmental preservations. 0:16:38.962 --> 0:16:42.522 Breno Bringo is a political science and sociology professor at 0:16:42.522 --> 0:16:45.962 the Institute of Social and Political Studies at the State 0:16:46.162 --> 0:16:49.602 University of Huge General and an editor of the book 0:16:49.722 --> 0:16:55.562 Green Colonialism, Volume one, Geo Politics and Social Ecological Transitions. 0:16:56.282 --> 0:16:59.162 He doesn't argue with the idea that the carbonization and 0:16:59.362 --> 0:17:03.522 energy transition are critical to addressing the climate crisis, but 0:17:03.681 --> 0:17:07.922 he says green colonialism isn't doing any of that as 0:17:08.002 --> 0:17:09.522 another fact of the colonialism. 0:17:10.322 --> 0:17:14.082 For distinic of green colonialism is essentially reproducing the dynamics 0:17:14.122 --> 0:17:18.121 of historical colonialism, seeking new social legismacy and the idea 0:17:18.242 --> 0:17:21.762 of decobonization, because who would be against decarbonization? 0:17:22.442 --> 0:17:24.082 That's the question, right. 0:17:24.202 --> 0:17:28.081 It's a genius way to justify a continued expansion but 0:17:28.402 --> 0:17:30.882 market it as something else, entirely. 0:17:30.841 --> 0:17:34.962 Exactly bringing your points out that when it just continues 0:17:35.002 --> 0:17:39.802 to commodify nature, this new green colonialism narrative is exactly 0:17:39.922 --> 0:17:43.962 the same as regular old colonialism condex is as. 0:17:44.682 --> 0:17:49.282 When decobonization primarily translates into corbon offset markets, investment in 0:17:49.361 --> 0:17:53.561 technologies that perpetuate in policies, or increased production of green 0:17:53.682 --> 0:17:57.881 raw materials without social justice and without environmental justice, it 0:17:57.962 --> 0:18:01.762 becomes a channel for accumulation and the reproduction of green colonialism. 0:18:03.002 --> 0:18:08.162 Sylvia Seki, an economist, geographer, and professor at University of Iowa, 0:18:08.482 --> 0:18:13.282 said something similar about how industrial AGGERG culture approaches sustainability 0:18:13.642 --> 0:18:14.282 in the US. 0:18:15.002 --> 0:18:17.561 The goal is just to farm the government. 0:18:17.882 --> 0:18:20.641 This is what these people excel at, really farming the 0:18:20.722 --> 0:18:23.002 government and just kind of like coming up with the 0:18:23.162 --> 0:18:23.962 narrative that. 0:18:24.081 --> 0:18:29.242 Will carry the day, right and then without any compunction, 0:18:29.962 --> 0:18:33.921 just switching to another narrative when the next narrative wins 0:18:33.962 --> 0:18:34.282 the day. 0:18:35.121 --> 0:18:38.002 And here we're going to come back to Bruce Rastetter. 0:18:39.002 --> 0:18:45.202 Rasstetter has clearly been instrumental in promoting and supporting and 0:18:45.882 --> 0:18:48.881 navigating and shaping the reinvention of. 0:18:48.922 --> 0:18:51.762 Ethanol and carbon capturing and storage. 0:18:51.841 --> 0:18:56.561 All these things are integral to this imagining of ethanol 0:18:56.722 --> 0:18:59.282 as a long term. 0:18:59.522 --> 0:19:04.242 Renewable, sustainable fuel. It's a putting lipstick on a. 0:19:04.282 --> 0:19:12.962 Pick looking and in fact fs fuel in sustainability. Bruce 0:19:13.081 --> 0:19:17.002 Raster's Brazilian company has been doing the same thing. In 0:19:17.081 --> 0:19:19.882 addition to helping to start both for the corn ethanol 0:19:19.962 --> 0:19:23.002 and carbon capture industries in Brazil and pushing for the 0:19:23.121 --> 0:19:26.361 policies that will help them grow, FS has been a 0:19:26.482 --> 0:19:29.082 pioneer in what are called green bones. 0:19:29.841 --> 0:19:34.321 Yes, green bonds really exploded when the Paris Agreement was 0:19:34.442 --> 0:19:38.482 signed in twenty fifteen. That agreement often gets pointed to 0:19:38.601 --> 0:19:41.242 as this great step forward for climate, and in some 0:19:41.361 --> 0:19:45.202 ways it was, but it also leaned really hard on 0:19:45.321 --> 0:19:49.081 the idea of involving the private sector more in solving climate, 0:19:49.722 --> 0:19:54.881 and especially on the idea that financializing environmental gains was 0:19:54.922 --> 0:19:58.081 going to be this huge lever of progress. We just 0:19:58.282 --> 0:20:02.401 needed to reform the carbon offsets and credit markets to 0:20:02.522 --> 0:20:06.361 make sure those gains were real. On the sidelines of Paris, 0:20:06.561 --> 0:20:10.601 Global investors even signed their own agreement called the Paris 0:20:10.682 --> 0:20:14.121 Green Bond Statement. I don't know about U Flepe, but 0:20:14.361 --> 0:20:17.882 I am. I'm not a big finance bro, No me neither. 0:20:18.361 --> 0:20:21.722 So we got up Vanessa Pajea, being at the Federal 0:20:21.841 --> 0:20:25.121 University of San Carlos, she wrote the whole paper on 0:20:25.282 --> 0:20:28.482 green bones in Brazoo, and she walked us through it. 0:20:31.442 --> 0:20:36.841 MAC want to. 0:20:36.882 --> 0:20:40.561 See a corporation, a government, or a branch of the 0:20:40.642 --> 0:20:43.762 government like a municipality or an agency. For example, the 0:20:43.841 --> 0:20:47.762 bndes needs money to carry out a certain activity, so 0:20:47.882 --> 0:20:51.202 it goes out to raise funds directly from investors. So 0:20:51.282 --> 0:20:54.522 it issues this document, this debt security, and then it's 0:20:54.561 --> 0:20:56.002 presented to these investors. 0:20:56.321 --> 0:20:57.361 So but why is it green? 0:20:57.601 --> 0:20:57.721 Right? 0:20:58.202 --> 0:21:01.962 It's green because it goes through certain stages to establish credibility. 0:21:02.482 --> 0:21:05.641 A green bond has to have its funds allocated exclusively 0:21:05.802 --> 0:21:09.242 to projects, activities, or even assets like a power plant 0:21:09.282 --> 0:21:12.442 for example, that will very ecological benefits. 0:21:12.522 --> 0:21:16.042 Right, So yeah, yeah, it has to be environmentally sustainable. 0:21:17.002 --> 0:21:21.161 Essa says. Part of Brazil's openness to US technology is 0:21:21.242 --> 0:21:26.121 that technological approaches are viewed by financial markets as things 0:21:26.242 --> 0:21:30.762 that stabilize agriculture and make it a good investment. There 0:21:30.802 --> 0:21:32.962 are a lot of variables in agriculture, right There are 0:21:33.242 --> 0:21:38.002 funguses and bugs and extreme weather. Chemicals and machines are 0:21:38.042 --> 0:21:42.081 seen as a way to control those variables. Today's version 0:21:42.242 --> 0:21:43.762 of the man versus nature thing. 0:21:44.402 --> 0:21:47.641 So the finance market in general created all these tools 0:21:47.722 --> 0:21:52.561 to support a certain type of modernized agriculture. That expansion 0:21:52.682 --> 0:21:56.561 that Koheia talking about, and the green bone markets provided 0:21:56.642 --> 0:21:58.602 the financing for green colonialism. 0:21:59.962 --> 0:22:00.401 We see this. 0:22:00.482 --> 0:22:03.122 Movement beginning in the early two thousands where we see 0:22:03.162 --> 0:22:06.441 how agreements are starting to emerge that aim to channel 0:22:06.561 --> 0:22:10.962 private capital into initiatives that can support sustainable development project. 0:22:11.321 --> 0:22:14.522 Right to issue a green bond, you have to go 0:22:14.722 --> 0:22:18.482 through four procedures. First, you write up a framework. 0:22:21.522 --> 0:22:24.722 The Brazilian government for example, has a framework. Yeah, and 0:22:24.841 --> 0:22:28.002 then in that framework they need to specify where they'll 0:22:28.042 --> 0:22:30.042 allocate the funds they'll receive and. 0:22:30.162 --> 0:22:32.002 It has to be for eligible projects. 0:22:32.442 --> 0:22:36.522 Then you have to describe the sustainability of the activities 0:22:36.642 --> 0:22:38.242 you'll use the green bond for. 0:22:41.561 --> 0:22:43.922 There's a third step that is how it will be 0:22:44.042 --> 0:22:47.282 monitored over time, right during the period it's receiving these 0:22:47.361 --> 0:22:51.002 green bond proceeds, this green bond money, this investment. 0:22:51.002 --> 0:22:55.321 But again monitored by the company which also reports on their. 0:22:55.282 --> 0:22:58.842 Progress e the points and think part. 0:23:00.242 --> 0:23:02.762 And then there's a fourth step, which is how they're 0:23:02.802 --> 0:23:06.202 going to you know, just close this data. So it's 0:23:06.482 --> 0:23:09.442 it's basically declaratory, right like I'm going to do this, 0:23:09.722 --> 0:23:11.802 then I'm going to do that I'm going to monitor 0:23:11.841 --> 0:23:13.682 it this way, and I'm going to report it that way. 0:23:14.922 --> 0:23:17.042 When they first came about in two thousand and seven 0:23:17.282 --> 0:23:20.242 and for around the first decade of their existence, green 0:23:20.321 --> 0:23:24.081 bonds were mostly issued by international development banks like the 0:23:24.162 --> 0:23:28.002 World Bank, But beginning in twenty sixteen, on the heels 0:23:28.121 --> 0:23:32.121 of the Paris Climate Accord, more corporations and governments started 0:23:32.121 --> 0:23:35.082 to get in on the action and the market exploded. 0:23:35.601 --> 0:23:38.402 By twenty twenty, the green bond market was approaching three 0:23:38.482 --> 0:23:42.162 hundred billion dollars, and just two years later, by twenty 0:23:42.242 --> 0:23:47.522 twenty two, it had ballooned to two trillion dollars. Various 0:23:47.561 --> 0:23:51.642 methods have been developed to verify the environmental gains funded 0:23:51.682 --> 0:23:54.722 by green bonds, and our friends at FS have embraced 0:23:54.722 --> 0:23:58.282 a lot of them, but Vanessa says it's more about 0:23:58.482 --> 0:24:03.922 paperwork and self reporting than actually verifying environmental. 0:24:03.402 --> 0:24:09.842 Benefits picon and as A as a davenas. 0:24:11.762 --> 0:24:13.682 The idea is that the government doesn't need to be 0:24:13.802 --> 0:24:17.282 involved in this regulation or verification process. It will self 0:24:17.402 --> 0:24:21.722 regulate by creating well dividing the stakeholders into different groups. 0:24:21.841 --> 0:24:25.762 Right the term they use is stakeholders, and they'll monitor 0:24:25.802 --> 0:24:28.561 each other in some way. So you have the issuer there, 0:24:28.722 --> 0:24:31.522 they're the first stakeholder. Then you have a second party, 0:24:31.601 --> 0:24:35.841 which are SPO's second Party Opinions, which are companies that 0:24:35.922 --> 0:24:39.962 provide consulting in the environmental engineering and management fields and 0:24:40.081 --> 0:24:42.962 they're the ones who will actually evaluate a green bond. 0:24:43.402 --> 0:24:46.042 And then you have third parties that are institutions for 0:24:46.162 --> 0:24:49.841 example like the CBI, the Climate Bonds Initiative, which are 0:24:50.361 --> 0:24:54.401 will generally nonprofit associations or organizations in the case of 0:24:54.482 --> 0:24:59.242 the CBI, where they create standards, so they establish benchmarks for. 0:24:59.321 --> 0:25:01.641 What is considered a sustainable activity. 0:25:01.882 --> 0:25:07.161 Right, so the verifications are really more about financial compliance 0:25:07.402 --> 0:25:10.121 than anything that's happening on the ground or in the 0:25:10.202 --> 0:25:14.682 atmosphere in Brazil. That means that things like land grabbing 0:25:14.922 --> 0:25:20.722 and excessive agrichemico used are not factored into the equation. Now, 0:25:21.121 --> 0:25:24.802 various actors in Brazil's government with close ties to agribusiness 0:25:24.962 --> 0:25:28.242 are trying to present the majority of agricultural production in 0:25:28.321 --> 0:25:29.162 Brazil as. 0:25:29.361 --> 0:25:37.002 Green sofa fraud and your. 0:25:36.922 --> 0:25:40.121 Problem main So a lot of things are going to 0:25:40.162 --> 0:25:43.482 get left out right, and the monitoring itself, well, since 0:25:43.522 --> 0:25:46.882 it's self regulating, it ends up being very declarative. So yeah, 0:25:46.882 --> 0:25:49.601 there won't be that level of care, Like no one 0:25:49.642 --> 0:25:51.682