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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, But you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Oh boy, it's nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: but a day after it's you will be listening to

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Speaker 1: this on nine twelve, after you have um finished whatever

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Speaker 1: it is that you do on nine eleven either either

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Speaker 1: be sad or uh tell jokes or nothing at all. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's all fine. There's no wrong thing to do when

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about a day where a really fucked up

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Speaker 1: thing happened. But that's actually untrue. There is one wrong

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Speaker 1: thing to do, and we're going to talk about the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing today because most people, I think, I think

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Speaker 1: back to the day after nine eleven as oh, everybody

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Speaker 1: was like out of their minds with like grief and

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Speaker 1: fear and saying some really fucked up shit and generating

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Speaker 1: a kind of fury that acted as propulsion and justification

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Speaker 1: for a lot of very very bad things. Um. And

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Speaker 1: it's not in general a time that we should look

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Speaker 1: back on with particular pride or or certainly what's the

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Speaker 1: word I'm looking for here? Um, nostalgia? Everyone that is,

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Speaker 1: except for Glenn Beck. Um. Now, James, we've got James

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Speaker 1: do out here. Chris, Hey, Chris, what do you what

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Speaker 1: do y'all know about Glenn Beck? Because James, you are

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Speaker 1: This is controversial to say, but I think we should

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Speaker 1: rip a vand aid off British. Um. And Chris, you're

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Speaker 1: very young, so I'm wondering how much do you know

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Speaker 1: about Mr? Beck? He was like the my memory of him,

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Speaker 1: he was kind of like the well, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: or is not quite the right word, but he was

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Speaker 1: like he was like like the guy in sort of

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Speaker 1: like right wing ship head like punditry for a while.

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Speaker 1: My memory of him, he was like he was like

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Speaker 1: a slightly more put together Alex Jones, Like he had

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Speaker 1: like the weird pinboards and ship and like it is

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Speaker 1: this the right guy? Yeah, he's Alex Jones with a

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Speaker 1: budget in terms of kind of the space he fills. Um, James,

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Speaker 1: did you know, did you catch much of him. No,

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Speaker 1: So my engagement with Glenn Beck is mostly through like

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Speaker 1: teaching American history classes and trying to explain like the

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Speaker 1: explosion in lies and bullshit and hate that immediately follows

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Speaker 1: nine eleven. Yeah, and so no, they've never really heard

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Speaker 1: his stuff. Yeah, Glenn Beck, he's he's doing radio, ship

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Speaker 1: and stuff before nine eleven. By the time he actually

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Speaker 1: comes on the scene, it's a few years after nine

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Speaker 1: eleven and he gets a show on Fox News. Um

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Speaker 1: and Glenn Is. You know, I watched him every night.

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Speaker 1: My parents always watched him. My dad considered him to

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Speaker 1: be like a really good historian um, which is bleak

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Speaker 1: um a lot, but he was. He was He was

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Speaker 1: a unique sounding figure. So when Glenn Beck comes onto

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Speaker 1: the stage, right, the biggest dude in right wing media

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Speaker 1: is still Rush Limbaugh. But rush Is has kind of

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Speaker 1: taken a back seat in the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: especially right after nine eleven. Two guys like um, Sean

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Speaker 1: Hannity and Bill O'Riley, you know, and those are kind

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Speaker 1: they are kind of like they are powerhouses in right

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Speaker 1: wing media. And then you've got well those guys are

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Speaker 1: on TV. You've got this cast of people who are

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Speaker 1: like bargain Basement Discount Rush Limbaughs on the radio that

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Speaker 1: are all kind of waiting in the wings for their

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Speaker 1: chance to be the next big TV hero. UM. And

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Speaker 1: those guys include people like UM, UM, like Glenn Beck,

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Speaker 1: and also folks like Michael Savage. UM. There's a couple

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Speaker 1: of a lot of maniacs that you probably have not

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Speaker 1: heard of that we don't need to dredge up. But

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Speaker 1: Glenn Beck kind of sales out of the fever swamps

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Speaker 1: of the right wing media UM and gets a fucking

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Speaker 1: TV show on Fox News, and in very short order

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Speaker 1: he is the biggest fucking thing on the network. Fox

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Speaker 1: News is the most popular network in the country, and

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Speaker 1: Glenn Beck is their number one host. In two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: he's pulling in something like three million viewers a night.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, he's he's he's very very influential. UM. And

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Speaker 1: this is the point in time and two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: by the way, the other thing that's happened that's big

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Speaker 1: in right wing media circles is Barack Obama has been

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Speaker 1: elected president. Now, yeah, you've got Birtherism happening, But in general,

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Speaker 1: I think one good way to think about it is

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Speaker 1: that nine eleven super charges the right, but in a

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Speaker 1: very like populist way in a because there's this expectation,

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Speaker 1: like we talked about in the last episode, this expectation

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Speaker 1: that people are coming back to God because there's been

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Speaker 1: a big disaster, We're going to war, and war all

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Speaker 1: ways benefits you know, the conservatives in the in the

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Speaker 1: you know, the party, like we're gonna win this war

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Speaker 1: and that's gonna be huge for US. Um. And you

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Speaker 1: also have like just this this sense because Bush becomes

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Speaker 1: the most popular president anyone can remember having that the

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Speaker 1: type of history is with conservatism, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: immediate wake of nine eleven, and then that all goes

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Speaker 1: to ship because conservatives have terrible ideas for everything. Um

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Speaker 1: and they launched two disastrous wars, and by two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine there's not a lot of people who are

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Speaker 1: gonna like admit in public, No, I think we both

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Speaker 1: those wars were good ideas that were handled well right.

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Speaker 1: Even the people who were who were real bullish about

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Speaker 1: that stuff are like, well, you know, they didn't do

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Speaker 1: this right or that right, or it's impossible to win

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Speaker 1: in that part of the world. And you know, it

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Speaker 1: was that's the I heard different versions of that from

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Speaker 1: from different family members and stuff. But there's this this

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Speaker 1: real sense of aggrievement and in the wake of Bush,

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Speaker 1: like it's it's kind of taken for granted because about

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Speaker 1: how disastrous his his presidency had been. At um he

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Speaker 1: was not. You know, it's not going to be a

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Speaker 1: Republican who won that election. Um. But the fact that

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Speaker 1: it is Barack Obama, a black guy, they lose their

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Speaker 1: goddamn minds. I think they've been ready for I think

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Speaker 1: even they would have been fine with Hillary Clinton. Obviously

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Speaker 1: they would have liked gone nuts on her like they

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Speaker 1: did on Bill, but like I think they would have,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that would have caused them to go

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Speaker 1: crazy the way that Obama did. Um. It is it

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Speaker 1: is not wrong to compare the impact to nine eleven

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, because it's this massive shock

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Speaker 1: that shakes the center of their world that they view

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Speaker 1: as an attack, as an assault on like white middle

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Speaker 1: class Americans, and the shock waves of that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're still dealing with them. But one of the things

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Speaker 1: that's that's happening here is that after nine eleven they

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Speaker 1: had this sense that history is with us, momentum is

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Speaker 1: with us. And after Obama gets elected, you see the

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Speaker 1: conservative movement get much more insular and much more conspiratorial

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Speaker 1: and much more focused on like grievance and anger and

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Speaker 1: revenge um because they know they're nothing's going to bring

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Speaker 1: back the people. So there's there's kind of nothing but

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Speaker 1: but vengeance um. And Beck is the guy who's going

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Speaker 1: to tap most effectively into this feeling, this feeling of

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Speaker 1: fear and this need to feel like you're like you

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Speaker 1: were right after nine eleven when it felt like everything

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Speaker 1: was surging forward in the rights direction. And so in

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine he launches what he calls the We

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Speaker 1: Surround Them campaign. Now, the we in this I think

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Speaker 1: is supposed to be conservatives and them is the government.

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Speaker 1: But I think you can assume other you know, if

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Speaker 1: you think about the urban rural divide in this country,

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Speaker 1: there's another meaning to that sort of thing. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: this this is a series of segments and specials on

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Speaker 1: beck show that grew very popular, so popular, in fact,

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Speaker 1: that a lot of local right wing organizations start hosting

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Speaker 1: viewing parties. And this becomes like the earliest stirrings of

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Speaker 1: the Tea Party movement. Right all of these right wing

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Speaker 1: radio stations and stuff. These local talk radio stations and

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Speaker 1: other organizations are holding viewing parties for to watch Glenn

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Speaker 1: Beck talk about you know, his do his we surround

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Speaker 1: them act. And I'm gonna play a clip for you

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Speaker 1: now from one of these viewing parties. We're gonna play

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Speaker 1: a couple of clips. This is from one filmed by

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Speaker 1: a talk radio station in Fort Wayne, Georgia. Um and

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, it's it's it's something else, all right, So

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Speaker 1: I want to um, I want to play this for you.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a fascinating artifact. And how the radio

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Speaker 1: host chooses to introduce the event is noteworthy, as is

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Speaker 1: the man's appearance with six hundred six freaks watching Glenn

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Speaker 1: Beck on Fox News for nine project it's amazing. So well,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting to me. I think it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: worth going over a couple of things there because that's

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Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like a lot. But the fact that

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Speaker 1: he he describes the guy the people in there is

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Speaker 1: sick freaks and and and then like we're sick freaks,

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Speaker 1: but like kind of taking pride, and that that's what

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Speaker 1: he assumes Brules would call them for watching Glenn Beck.

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Speaker 1: You can see a shade in this of a lot

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Speaker 1: of liberals because they're dumb. We're taken by surprise when

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Speaker 1: like Hillary Clinton called Trump supporters a basket of the plurables,

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Speaker 1: and they immediately adopted that name for themselves. Now you

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Speaker 1: see the stirrings of it here right like this is

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Speaker 1: this is what the movements turned into. Um, you're taking

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Speaker 1: pride in the fact that you're outnumbered and and despised.

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Speaker 1: Also the project I'm intrigued. Oh yes, that's that is

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Speaker 1: that is coming. We're we're building to that. Um. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: we get some rock and guitar licks, just just some

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Speaker 1: some of the best preloaded writes, free guitar music I've

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Speaker 1: ever heard. And then we pan into this very full

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Speaker 1: conference room. There's like six people in this thing and

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Speaker 1: they are, as far as I can tell, all white. Um,

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Speaker 1: it is certain that the only people they talk to

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Speaker 1: when they do like because you know, the camera goes

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Speaker 1: around to get people's statements on the event, the only

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Speaker 1: people who are featured on camera are white, like a

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Speaker 1: hundred percent of them. And I'm gonna play a clip

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Speaker 1: from that now, good by, and I'm glad you're doing this.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to get our constitution back. I love you,

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Speaker 1: You're doing it. We're all behind you. Thank you. Land.

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Speaker 1: We are Jackie and Bill Better. We're from Angle, Indiana

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Speaker 1: and we would like to thank you that you are

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Speaker 1: helping us, we the people, to take back our America.

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Speaker 1: Thanks you're the man, Glan. What you're doing is great

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Speaker 1: for America. You're and encouragement that all of us were

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Speaker 1: fed up with the federal government. Now they were like,

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Speaker 1: it's impossible. I know video I have not seen since

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Speaker 1: I was James. James might die. Yeah, there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of extinct kinds of white guy in that video.

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Speaker 1: The very last of them died to COVID when they

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Speaker 1: cut a hole in the middle of their mask and

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Speaker 1: went to a Luby's. It's missed. Now here's the thing

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Speaker 1: I want to acknowledge something that is impossible to deny,

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Speaker 1: which is that the fact that we are laughing at

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Speaker 1: them in this way is part of why they got

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Speaker 1: so angry and put Trump in office right, part of

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Speaker 1: why liberal tears is a thing, part of why there's

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Speaker 1: so much focus on this desire of hurting the enemy. Um.

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Speaker 1: But also they just all look like impossibly American, like

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Speaker 1: like these people I used to see in Barcelona. From

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Speaker 1: a hundred yards away, people would be like, how do

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Speaker 1: you know in American? And like my friends would be like,

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Speaker 1: first of all, you've come dressed as a fucking tree

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Speaker 1: yourself and this book these are some of the people

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Speaker 1: who raised me. Are are not? You know, I grew

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Speaker 1: up around these people. I grew up with these people.

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Speaker 1: I am. I am of these people. Um, I think

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Speaker 1: I wear better shirts. But but but it is like

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Speaker 1: you you see in this these people who feel like

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of the thing they're communicating. Something has

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Speaker 1: gone wrong with the country. And the thing that's gone

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Speaker 1: wrong is they are looking out and people don't look

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Speaker 1: like them, and in fact, people are looking at them

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Speaker 1: like they look weird, and people are making fun of

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Speaker 1: their ways and their customs, and this has taken them

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Speaker 1: by surprise, and they're extremely angry about it and seeing

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Speaker 1: a black man as president, which is the least anyone

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Speaker 1: could look like them, right, Barack Obama many flaws two

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Speaker 1: thousand nine. There was not many cooler looking dudes than

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Speaker 1: Barack who Obama like and that you have to understand,

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Speaker 1: like the bar is so low here that like a

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Speaker 1: reasonably well dressed person is like dropping a nuclear weapon

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Speaker 1: on like six cavemen. It is. Yeah, yeah, OK. So

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Speaker 1: the show ends with Beck because they're watching Glenn Beck

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Speaker 1: on a fucking projector, and it ends with him near tears.

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Speaker 1: He would cry on his show, consly telling everybody there

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Speaker 1: that they were all going to meet back together in

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Speaker 1: six months to find some ways in which they've managed

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Speaker 1: to to to add some nine twelve energy to their lives.

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Speaker 1: And we'll get to this more. But the thing he's

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Speaker 1: saying is that the day after nine eleven, we were

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Speaker 1: the best version of ourselves as a country. Everyone was

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Speaker 1: so godly and so loving and so united. And that's

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Speaker 1: the thing that we need to get to deal with

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Speaker 1: the horror of Barack Obama being the president um and

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Speaker 1: obviously the other thing happening. I shouldn't. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be unfair here. It's not just that they're scared

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Speaker 1: about Barack Obama. This is two thousand nine. The economy

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Speaker 1: has just completely shadow fucking brick. The housing market is

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Speaker 1: through the goddamn floor. Some actually scary things are happening too.

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Speaker 1: It's just that they're kind of grafting all of them

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Speaker 1: onto the specter that is Obama. You know. Um anyway,

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So after this we pan out to widespread

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Speaker 1: applause in this very full room, and then we cut

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Speaker 1: two interviews. This time. I know everyone's gonna be really excited.

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Speaker 1: Here there's a baby. It's pretty cute. It's pretty it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty cute baby of the youngest Glenn Beck fans.

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Speaker 1: Look at that child has my reaction to this, it's

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Speaker 1: so funny. It's so funny. Look at this. Let's get

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Speaker 1: this baby's statement. Just shine it blinded with a light

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Speaker 1: until it weeps. Yeah, that's the good stuff. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: this this video has paused on a freeze frame of

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Speaker 1: a guy in a suit that when they talked to

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Speaker 1: this guy they call him the best dress. I'll just

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Speaker 1: play it, I will I will just play I wasn't

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Speaker 1: planning to play this, but I will play it. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: the best dress. Uh, guy here, did we have a

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Speaker 1: good time today? Why did you think of the presudation?

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Speaker 1: I thought it was nice and it's nice to get

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Speaker 1: together with great turnout. I know that so many people

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Speaker 1: still care, know that guy. Okay, that that that exact

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Speaker 1: kind of person was like the political class of like

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Speaker 1: the town I grew up in, Like these are the

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Speaker 1: people who were like like this is the guy? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the thing the things they get up to were

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Speaker 1: like like there was a guy who was taking money

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Speaker 1: from the sheriff's department to try to abolish the police

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Speaker 1: so that he could install the Sheriff's department as the

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Speaker 1: only law enforcement like division in this town. While he

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Speaker 1: tried to sell like, oh god, that that is a

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Speaker 1: kind of person night like he has he has some strong,

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Speaker 1: strong Republican city comptroller energy from for like a town,

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Speaker 1: for like a town of thirteen thousand people. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: dressed much like Ricky Gervais dressed in the original Office.

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Speaker 1: Yeah dump piece mean he is literally the guy Ricky

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Speaker 1: Gervais is making fun of. Yes, yeah he is. So.

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Speaker 1: Beck paired his message of government accountability, as he framed

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Speaker 1: it with and this is what we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: nine twelve project, which follows. We surround them with nine

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Speaker 1: principles and twelve values, which, if followed, would help bring

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Speaker 1: your heart back to the mythical nine twelve. This moment

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Speaker 1: in which America was was beautiful. This this we've gone

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Speaker 1: from the fifties, like there's this, there's this twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: year Golden Era to like, we had one great day

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Speaker 1: and if we could just get back to that, everything

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Speaker 1: will be fine. Um. So here's here's the nine value

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Speaker 1: or nine principles. Sorry, it's nine principles and twelve values.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hold me accountable if I fucked

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Speaker 1: this up in the future. The nine principles are Number one,

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Speaker 1: America is good. Number two, I believe in God and

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Speaker 1: he is the center of my life. Number three, I

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Speaker 1: must always try to be a more honest person than

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Speaker 1: I was yesterday. Number four. The family is sacred. My

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Speaker 1: spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.

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Speaker 1: And I say this a lot, but in the Roman Empire,

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Speaker 1: the father of the family used to be able to

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Speaker 1: execute his wife and children. And you're a fool if

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Speaker 1: you think that's not what these people want things to

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Speaker 1: be like. Um. Well, and there's slaves too, that's also invariable,

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Speaker 1: and the slaves are a critical aspect of this. Yes. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Number five, if you break the law, you pay the penalty.

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Speaker 1: Justice is blind and no one is above it. This is,

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Speaker 1: by the way, confusingly a reference to all the people

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Speaker 1: who lost their homes in the house and crash. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's what he's talking about. That they didn't. They didn't.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can't like bail people out. Um. Number six,

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Speaker 1: I have a right to life, liberty in the pursuit

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Speaker 1: of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

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Speaker 1: Number seven. I work hard for what I have and

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Speaker 1: I will share it with who I want to. Government

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Speaker 1: cannot force me to be charitable. Number eight. It is

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Speaker 1: not un American for me to disagree with authority or

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Speaker 1: to share my personal opinion. And number nine, the government

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Speaker 1: works for me. I do not answer to them. They

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Speaker 1: answer to me. Now that's fun. There's there's some interesting

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Speaker 1: things they're including. The government can't force me to be charitable,

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Speaker 1: you know I will, which like the side of that.

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Speaker 1: That is something that actually happened on nine twelve is

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people showed up and volunteered to, like

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Speaker 1: at great personal cost because many of them got sick

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Speaker 1: and died, to help pull bodies out of the rubble

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Speaker 1: and try to save people. Right, And that the government

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Speaker 1: literally did not need to tell people to do that

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Speaker 1: because a bunch of cops actually refused to go do

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Speaker 1: anything at all, And and the like the government, the

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Speaker 1: government knew about like like that the when when the

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Speaker 1: government did do something, it was they they put a

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Speaker 1: bunch of firefighters like inside of the range. It was

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Speaker 1: the dusk was toxic and then just fucking got them killed,

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Speaker 1: which and then spent the next we had to have

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Speaker 1: John fucking Stewart fight for them to get some kind

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Speaker 1: of recompense from the federal government, which credit where it's

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Speaker 1: due is a legitimately cool thing that he helped do.

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Speaker 1: But like, why did it fall upon the Daily Show

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Speaker 1: guy to share that the guy who's doing transphobic bits

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Speaker 1: at the same time. Yeah, yeah, Like it's kind of

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Speaker 1: didn't Ted Cruz vote against healthcare benefits for these people? Yeah? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: Which again it's very funny that like the government can't

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Speaker 1: force me to to to be charitable. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: what that actually ends with is people actually volunteering and

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Speaker 1: risking their lives and then the government, the conservatives in

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Speaker 1: the government callous lea voting to let them die in

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Speaker 1: agony because like, well, why should I have to pay? Oh,

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Speaker 1: you do was rescue people during our country's darkst hour?

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Speaker 1: Why should I have to pay? Like it's this, it's amazing. Shit. Um,

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Speaker 1: now that I'm sure you're curious about those twelve values,

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Speaker 1: they're really boring, Like it's boy, It's like boy scout ship.

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Speaker 1: It's like honesty, reverence, thrift, courage, Like it's not worth

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Speaker 1: focusing on the thing this entire time think I've been

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Speaker 1: thinking about. This is the exact naming scheme that like,

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Speaker 1: like if you just walked up to someone on the

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Speaker 1: street and like asked it, what what what are what

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Speaker 1: are the nine principles and twelve values? Like this? This

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Speaker 1: sounds exactly like like that. This sounds exactly like what

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Speaker 1: like a like a a a mid level like a

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Speaker 1: mid level Chinese bureaucrat would name their campaign to like

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Speaker 1: make sure the water restoration is done properly. Like it

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Speaker 1: is the exact naming scheme of like like campaign style

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Speaker 1: stuff and like fucking like post post vours China, I

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Speaker 1: mean well ended. And Beck is Yeah, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: to say about that and about Glenn Beck. But um,

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Speaker 1: you know, so I got that list of twelve principles

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Speaker 1: from Glenn Beck dot com. What I find interesting is

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Speaker 1: that the principles as are up on his website right now,

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Speaker 1: because this is a thing he still gets into every

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Speaker 1: now and again. Are somewhat different from the ones that

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Speaker 1: he debuted on the episode of his show in which

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Speaker 1: he introduced the nine twelve Project. And I found the

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Speaker 1: way he worded point eight point eight is it's not

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Speaker 1: un American for me to disagree with authority or to

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Speaker 1: share my personal opinion. I found the way he actually

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Speaker 1: worded that in the show very interesting, And I want

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Speaker 1: to play that for you now because it's it's quite

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Speaker 1: a bit different. Do you agree with this. It's not

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Speaker 1: Unamerican for anyone to disagree with my opinion, but my

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Speaker 1: opinion or others opinions maybe anti American. Anti American rhetoric

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Speaker 1: would be anything that's destructive to the Constitution and our

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Speaker 1: country as the Founders understood it, unless you want to

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Speaker 1: change that. There it is, Yeah, there we go, There

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Speaker 1: we go. That's the real good grievance. Yeah, yeah, I respect.

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Speaker 1: You're right to say anything unless you're disrespecting the Founders,

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Speaker 1: of course, which which case, Yeah, like swat teams will

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Speaker 1: convince immediately, etcetera, etcetera. We were we are reading the

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Speaker 1: wrench Moobs. Now. After introducing those principles, he asks his

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Speaker 1: audience to mail him personal photographs so he can put

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Speaker 1: them together into a big we surround them graphic, which

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Speaker 1: you can find if you really want to. Um, it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's if you want to get an idea of like

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Speaker 1: the people who are listening to Glenn Beck, that will

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Speaker 1: give it to you. Now here's what happens. Immediately after

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Speaker 1: he gives the email address for people to send this

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Speaker 1: to calm all right, the climate change people are pulling

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Speaker 1: a page from nazis what are your kids learning at school?

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Speaker 1: Perfect moment in American television. Yeah, it's it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: really incredible, right, it's. It's also it's also thing like

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Speaker 1: you couldn't do this any word, not because you not

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Speaker 1: not not actually because you can't say that about climate change,

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Speaker 1: but because if you tried to say that about the

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Speaker 1: Hitler youth people will get mad at you. Oh yeah no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you'll get in trouble. Oh yeah yeah, I hate the

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Speaker 1: youth defenders will be a day with very very pro environment.

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Speaker 1: I can hear Tucker Carlsson saying that, Yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: I just want to share with everyone that manned by

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Speaker 1: Number five by Bob the Builder hit the UK number

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Speaker 1: one spot on September twelve, two thousand and one. You

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Speaker 1: know what, you know what James never forget. And the

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Speaker 1: Queen was still alive, then she must have loved Mambo

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Speaker 1: number five. I bet there was a little bit of

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Speaker 1: Monica by her side, a little bit above the builder

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Speaker 1: in the queen, A little bit of Rita's all she needed,

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Speaker 1: um get it died very sad. So the nine twelve project,

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Speaker 1: as it kind of grew out of the weas around

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Speaker 1: Them campaign, if you kind of I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: found it written online. I can't exactly confirm this, but

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Speaker 1: it seems like it kind of started um when Beck

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Speaker 1: took a call on his talk radio show. And this

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Speaker 1: is a little bit of a couple of years earlier

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Speaker 1: from a guy named Ed in New Haven, Connecticut who

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Speaker 1: expressed feeling out numbered as a conservative on the American

429
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: political stage right. And that's that's really like what the

430
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: all of this kind of grew out of. It's this

431
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: response to the feeling like out numbered. Um. And I

432
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: think that's an important thing to understand if you're trying

433
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: to get to like the thing that the thing that

434
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: they want to go back to when they talk about

435
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: wanting to go back to nine isn't anything to do

436
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: with the actual terrorist attack. It's the fact that everyone

437
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: was so frightened that they unthinking Lee, uh, that they

438
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: unthinking Lee submitted to the right wing that was in

439
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: power at the time, right, Like like that it was.

440
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: That's what nine twelve is to them. Yeah, like it

441
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: it was. It was the last time conservatives were able

442
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: to like effectively cancel like mask cold, like they like

443
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: the only time cancel sulture has ever been real was

444
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: like the Dixie Chicks and could just do that like

445
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: if if you if you didn't start all of your concerts,

446
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: like if it's like my Miley Cyrus didn't go on

447
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: stage and like say something about the troops at the

448
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: beginning of a concert, like they would just destroy you

449
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: and you would never be heard from again. Yeah, it was.

450
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 1: It was literally, like legitimately scary to not be unthinkingly

451
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 1: pro America and like wildly so. And and that's what

452
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: they want to get back to, right, is that the

453
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: fear of actually questioning conservative hegemony. Um So, I want

454
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: to play a clip from the episode in which Glenn

455
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: Beck first introduces his nine twelve project to his audience

456
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: of millions on March fifteen, two thousand nine. Here's how

457
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: Here's how this introduction goes. Hello America, they're waiting. I'm

458
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: backstage right now at Fox. I'm getting ready to show

459
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 1: you that you are not alone. This Uh, this is

460
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: your country. You're still in control. But it seems today

461
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: like nobody gets it. Now that is a fascinatingly blatant

462
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: statement of white conservative supremacy. Right you, you're in charge,

463
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: but nobody gets it. They don't understand that you're supposed

464
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: to be running things right. Um, It's it's incredible how

465
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: blatant it is. But it also like you do have

466
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: to understand he's speaking to this real frustration. This is

467
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: like where we get Trump is these millions of people

468
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: are like, why don't they understand that we're supposed to

469
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: be in charge? Um, there's there's an incredibly I don't

470
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: know if you're going to get to this like later

471
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: there's the next video on the fucking YouTube thing is

472
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: from Vices. Glenn Beck is a conservative and exile. After

473
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: Trump chat a little bit about that at the end,

474
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: I'll do a whole Glenn Beck episode behind the Bastards,

475
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: But I really I want to keep digging into this

476
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna I'm gonna press play again here. You know,

477
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: you've lived your while life in a responsible way. You

478
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: didn't take out a loan that didn't require any kind

479
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: of per proof of income, yet now you're being forced

480
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: to bail those people out. You've been concerned about this

481
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: country through the last administration and this administration. If you're

482
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: like most people both administrations, it's not about politics. You

483
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: actually believe in something, and you thought for a while

484
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: they're your politicians did as well, and now you kind

485
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: of realize, well, maybe maybe they don't. When you come

486
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: home after a hard day at work, all you want

487
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: to do is put your feet up. All you want

488
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: to do is just relax and just watch a little

489
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: television catch up with what's happening in the world. But

490
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: every time you turn that television on, it just seems

491
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: like the whole world is spinning out of control. The war,

492
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: Islamic extremism, Europe on the bring even pirates now closer

493
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: to home. Mexico isn't safe for vacations or kids anymore.

494
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: Six thousand were killed or be headed on our border

495
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: just last year, and Phoenix now has the second highest

496
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: rate of kidnapping in the world. So there's a lot

497
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: going on there. But I think the thing that is

498
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: most fascinating to me is that like the way he

499
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: just me is like cartel violence. It's a problem because

500
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: it's not safe for our kids to vacation in Mexico anymore.

501
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: Mexico only exists for spring break. That all problems are

502
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: at their root about Americans, right, Like that's that's what's

503
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: going on here. Well, the other thing that's interesting to

504
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: me is like that he throws into like Europe under

505
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: siege thing, which was like like one of like the

506
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: big like fascist things in like that period, like word

507
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: for word, Europe under siege, like fortress Europe Ship. Yeah,

508
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: this is when Andy andy No started his like no

509
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: ghost zone. Yeah exactly. I think so right around here,

510
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit late, members of my family who

511
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: are extremely Caucasian living in some of those dog zones,

512
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: like I lived in Europe in this period. It's it's

513
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,479
Speaker 1: just so ridiculous. Yeah, and it's it's incoherent, like if

514
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: you look at the specifics of everything. Because he's yelling

515
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: about the financial crash because he has to be angry

516
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: with it because half of his market is terrified and

517
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: losing money or has have lost jobs and stuff as

518
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: a result of the crash. Um, But you can't. You

519
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: can't portray it as a problem of like corporations rapaciously

520
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: destroying and hollowing out the middle class. So instead the

521
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: problem is that like foreign there's a line in there

522
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: about how like foreign corporations are just treating Americans like

523
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: a market, which is like, well, how do Americans treat

524
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: everything like? Of course they treat them like a market.

525
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: It's capitalism. Um, it's not very coherent, But like, what

526
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: is coherent is this sense of grievance, right that we

527
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: have been we as Americans have been specifically wronged. Um,

528
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: we're not and and we as When he says americans,

529
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: obviously he's only referring to a specific kind of American. Um.

530
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna press play again here.

531
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: The forgotten man is you the voice that no one

532
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: seems to hear, just quietly saying, enforce the law, take

533
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: responsibility for yourself. You can't have it all. And anybody

534
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: who promised you that was a liar. Cren economic downturn,

535
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: worst economic crisis, worst month of job loss, Like something

536
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: is happening in America. Paradigm's about to change your friends

537
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: and neighbors. Republicans, Democrats, Independence, They're all beginning to wake

538
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: up and wonder how did this happen to us? M hm.

539
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, the words September two thousand and one just

540
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: hit the screen as soon as he finishes that. But

541
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: I mean, what you're seeing in that is like the

542
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: stirrings of what becomes Trump is um, you know, it's

543
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: it's very m h. And there's just like photos of

544
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: white people up on the left and right. Yeah, like

545
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: one of the most hideous like two columns I've ever

546
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: seen in a video. It's one and a half of

547
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 1: each king. Yeah, yeah, it's not done well. Their graphic

548
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: design was science had just simply had simply not advanced

549
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: to that level yet, like a people to understand this,

550
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: there are supposed to be three lines of pictures going

551
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: across the screen. The middle cut, Yeah, the middle line

552
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: is cut in half. The was half of one person's

553
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: face on each side of of of the screen. And

554
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: what they're what's being done here, What Beca is doing

555
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: here is he's trying to take the anger and like that.

556
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: People still felt about nine eleven and turn it kind

557
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: of towards in a different direction, right, because what it

558
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: actually happened on nine eleven was that a group of

559
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: terrorists had attacked the literal center of American capitalism UM

560
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: and of the American military industrial complex. Right. Those targets

561
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: were picked specifically because of what they were. UM. The

562
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: Twin Towers contained one tenth of all office space in Manhattan.

563
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 1: Their largest tenant was Morgan Stanley, which lost over eight

564
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: of its market value in the two thousand eight crash.

565
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: Worst yet in Beck size, the victims of the attacks

566
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: are all New Yorkers. Now, I don't know, if you're

567
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: not in the conservative media bubble, you may not get it,

568
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: but like New Yorkers, that was like a slur, Like

569
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: they literally like a slur to call somebody a New

570
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: Yorker values exactly. So Beck can't focus on the actual

571
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: victims of nine eleven because they are people that it

572
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: is in his best interest to train his audience to

573
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: to despise. So instead he focuses on how nine eleven

574
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: was basically an act of disrespect against the this forgotten man, right,

575
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: who's now kind of surging up like that's what he's

576
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,239
Speaker 1: doing here, right, that's what you have to do if

577
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: you're Glenn Beck, because again, you can't actually focus on

578
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: the real victims of this, which is why it's not

579
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: incoherent ideologically for conservatives to talk the way they do

580
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: about nine twelve and then vote not to help people

581
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: who were first responders and had their fucking lungs filled

582
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: with poison. Um. Yeah, it's good stuff. So obviously, because

583
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: Beck has to thread this needle, he focuses instead on

584
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: how the attack hit American prestige and confidence. I remember

585
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: how picture perfect the day was. It wasn't a cloud

586
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: in the sky, and America seemed invincible, and yet in

587
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: the blink of an eye that airplane appeared to hit

588
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: a little bit down the building, around the fifty or

589
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: six floor. Again, it's struck flush. The skies were filled

590
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: with black clouds, and our hearts were full of terror

591
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: and fears absolute disaster. We realized for the first time

592
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: how fragile we really were. Then something happened. So now

593
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: in September twelve, and the first image we see after

594
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: disaster and destruction is a group of firefighters holding a

595
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: gigantic American flag with roughly the footprint of a school bus. Right,

596
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 1: And this is this is good, right, this is and

597
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: also it's a it's interesting that this is what he

598
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: chooses as like the image of America, like rebounding from

599
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: this great defeat, as opposed to like, I don't know,

600
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: firefighters pulling people out of the rubble and saving their lives.

601
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: Like no, they got a big flag and say, you know,

602
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna be okay. It makes sense though, right, like

603
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: like the actual lives are unimportant. The thing that's important

604
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: to save is the image of America. It's the slag. Yeah,

605
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: this on the region. So yeah, well look yeah about us.

606
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna continue here. And we promised ourselves that we

607
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: would never forget on September twelfth, and for a short

608
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: time after that, we really promised ourselves that we would

609
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: focus on the things that were important our family, our friends,

610
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: the eternal principles that allowed America to become the world's

611
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: beacon of freedom. I can carry you out the arrested,

612
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: the wire and people are not the haling down. Well

613
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: here all of us now. I want to point out

614
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: here the choice of that clip. It's both because that

615
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: was a very famous speech that Bush gave that really

616
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: made his presidency in or at least the early part

617
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: of it. In a lot of ways, you could argue

618
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: that a significant amount of the the kind of the

619
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: political capital that he expended invading Iraq came from this

620
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 1: particular speech and generally how he handled the days after

621
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: the attacks. But it's interesting that they picked this because

622
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: it really is it's very much in line with this

623
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 1: this feeling and talking about the forgotten man, talking about

624
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: they're not listening to us, they don't know that we're

625
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 1: in trouble. What Bush is saying here is literal words

626
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: are um, I hear you, and the people who knocked

627
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: these towers down are going to hear you. Right you.

628
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: Your your anger will have a reaction in the world.

629
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: Right it will be met with fire and fury, right like?

630
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: That is that is the promise being made. And it's

631
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: this this undercurrent and everything Beck's doing here of the

632
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: thing that he is working with, the clay that he

633
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: is molding is the fact that these people don't feel

634
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: listened to and like and that they deserve to be

635
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: listened to, and that the when they're angry at something,

636
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: it should be hurt, right like. That's that's the undercurrent.

637
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: He's talking about family and togetherness, but like that's what

638
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: he's actually promising people. I'm really interested in this, Like,

639
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: like I don't this is probably like nine twelve or

640
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: wheneveryone he's getting this speech. I think I always come back.

641
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: It's weird given where conservatism has gone, right, and like

642
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: he's taken this in very much a clash of civilizations direction.

643
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: But like Bush was giving that, like Islam is the

644
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: fabric of America speeches that week he was speaking in

645
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,919
Speaker 1: mosques and two Muslims and being like that, like this

646
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: is not a clash of civilizations. Obviously, fucking he even

647
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: went and fucking killed millions of Muslims, right, most of

648
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: them innocent symbidians who had nothing to do with nearly

649
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: all of them, right, But yeah, it's just interesting that

650
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: like he's Bush who was giving this like this isn't

651
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: a clash of civilizations thing, and it's become a clash

652
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: of civilizations thing like eight years later, Yeah, yeah, and

653
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: it's become but in a very different way. Right, Because

654
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: one of the things that I think is happening here

655
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: is the problems that Americans, regular Americans are facing in

656
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, are this massive economic strife caused by

657
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: predatory lending, outright fraudulent business practices by major banks, the

658
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 1: fact that the legal system had been changed in order

659
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: to allow this massive con to go on, um, and

660
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: then it had been followed by this massive chrony capitalist

661
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: bailout that ignored regular working people. Glynn doesn't want his

662
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,959
Speaker 1: viewers to focus on all of that, right, because those

663
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: are his backers, right. But what so instead, what he's

664
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: doing is he's taking they feel disrespected and vulnerable because

665
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: they have been right now, there's unreasonable aspects to that,

666
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: but they have been disrespected by the people who are

667
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: stealing like all of the money in the country and

668
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: fucking them over too, and leaving their homes hollowed out,

669
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: piledicted waste lands. Um. But you can't focus on that.

670
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: The cure is, the cure that Beck offers them is

671
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: not materially improving anyone's conditions. It's not altering the systems

672
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 1: that people cannot prey upon others that way. It's by

673
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,959
Speaker 1: striking someone else. It's by striking back at that sense

674
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: of agreevement. Right, it's by this is what's going to

675
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: turn into owning the Libs, right, just hurting the left.

676
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: Conservatism now is purely about harming groups of people they

677
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,479
Speaker 1: view as opposed to them. Um, that's part of why

678
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: trans people are so focused on by the right right now,

679
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: is that it's the symbol of liberalism to them, and

680
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: they want to hurt that symbol. Right. This is this

681
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: is the answer Beck is offering, and it's going to

682
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: be adopted by the thought leaders of conservatism. We don't

683
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: need to focus on doing any Nothing can be done right,

684
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: Nothing can be done. The grift is running out, collapses coming.

685
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: All that we can do is redirect the anger they

686
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: feel it being fucked by us towards hurting other people.

687
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: That's that's the magic that Beck is pulling off here.

688
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. It's interesting too, I hope pretty well.

689
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: Like it's interesting to compare this, I think to like

690
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: both Reagan and um, like Reagan and Nixon, because this

691
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: is very very similar to Nixon talking about like the

692
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: silent majority and the stuff. But it's like those people

693
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: have an actual political project, like like Reagan, Reagan is

694
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: to trying to completely annihilate the welfare state and like,

695
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: you know, dude, like they have stuff they're trying to do.

696
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: But like post Bush was like, but but Bush was

697
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: the time they tried to like do stuff, and it's

698
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: like like Bush is so hated by this point that

699
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: like like even Glenn Beck at the beginning of this

700
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: is being like, well, we had concerns about the last

701
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: administration too, and I was like, well, yeah, because he's

702
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: like just by by every conceivable metric, just completely like

703
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: annihilated the United States. But yeah, it's like it's it's

704
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: this interesting thing that like, yeah, it's like like this

705
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: is the first time they've talked like this, But the

706
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: level of nihilism is just like so much like the

707
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: politics has been emptied of content to like such a

708
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: greater extent, and I think I think part of it

709
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: to also what's happening here is that like there's like

710
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: the like the the only thing left like for sort

711
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: of like the capitalist who are backing back, like the

712
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: only thing left for them that they could possibly win

713
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: is getting rid of Social Security and they kind of

714
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: like Obama gave him the chance to do it, and

715
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: they kind of like blew it. But like they don't

716
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: like this is like the ages like they they actually have,

717
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: Like they're there's like there's there's tax racils, like there's

718
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: not actually anything for them really to do, but they

719
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 1: still have to sort of like maintain this constant vigilance

720
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: against anyone even remotely trying to make the world better

721
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: by taking away some of their power. And I think

722
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: that's like another angle of why all of this is

723
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: just sort of like this like incredibly empty nihilism, because

724
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: that's like that that's the only politics you can have

725
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: to defending group people who have won. Yep. Yeah, well

726
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: that's a good note to end on. Um. I hope

727
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: you have all enjoyed getting to meet Glenn Beck in

728
00:39:43,920 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 1: the nine twelve project. I know I've enjoyed it. Uh, goodbye.

729
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: So I'm here today with Aria and an Aria. She

730
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 1: lives at the Eden House over there in Kenya and

731
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: is the chair of the management board at trans To

732
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: Rescue and has over forty years of trans rights activism,

733
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: and they're going to explain today a little bit of

734
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: what trans Rescue is, what Eden Houses, and the threats

735
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: and attacks that they've been facing in the last couple

736
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: of days here and so preps and you could explain

737
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: what Eden House is. And I think I really liked

738
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: in the website where you explain the difference between like

739
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,919
Speaker 1: a Heidie hole and a haven. So if you could

740
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: get into that, that that would be wonderful. Sure, um uh

741
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: Eden House is a uh there's a trans haven in

742
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: in Kenya. It's our primary mission is that we helped

743
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: trans people escape from dangerous places. That implies that we

744
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: help them go somewhere, because of course they have to

745
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: have a safe place to go too, which means we

746
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: often end up renting an apartment short term or doing

747
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: something like that while they get established in their new place.

748
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: The problem and of course that that was getting expensive

749
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: in Kenya where we can move a lot of people

750
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: because some areas of Kenya are quite dangerous, but the

751
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: major cities are not quite so dangerous, so we move

752
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: people into the major cities. But we were trying to

753
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 1: be efficient and save money and Uh we thought about

754
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: making a kind of temporary doss house or a place

755
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: with bunk beds to the ceiling and what have it.

756
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: But we realized that would still cost his money and

757
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be a very positive experience or affirming ex

758
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: variance for the folks living in it. And we realized

759
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: for that we could instead do a trans haven that

760
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: is a place where a person could come and if

761
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: they chose never leave live there the rest of the

762
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: life if they want. So when someone comes to Eden

763
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: House and expect to receive help to find some income

764
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: producing activity, and as time goes on, they will eventually

765
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: be expected to contribute to the running of the house.

766
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: Our plan is we just started a month ago, but

767
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: our plan is by about the end of the year

768
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: to have the house no longer be requiring funds from us,

769
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: and then we can do it again. Yeah, we have

770
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: space freight people. When we get up to eight and

771
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like it's going to bleed as dry,

772
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: we can do it again, and we can and in

773
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 1: the end we end up with something that I think

774
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: many trans people in any country would love to have,

775
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: because that's uh, you know, that's something as long as

776
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: I've been around, there have been many discussions of building

777
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: such places. Yeah, it's it's a very admirable project. And

778
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: I know Gary and I just used to be Tenacious

779
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: Unicorn Ranch I've been before, and it's really powerful to

780
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: see like how empowering those spaces are and how they

781
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: can help people. So I can see that you set

782
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: up in Kenya. Was there a reason that you picked Kenya?

783
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 1: It was that it was was a very large trans

784
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: community there or something that led you to uh frankly,

785
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 1: in in such places people often have um uh there

786
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: is the old queer Uh I know somebody who knows

787
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: somebody a lot uh system and people have kind of

788
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 1: webs of trust. And as a result, where we get

789
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: people coming from to ask us to move them, it's

790
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: very irregular. Uh. There are some countries we never hear from,

791
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: and we certainly know there are queer people there. We

792
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: know the conditions are bad and would you know, and

793
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: we'd be happy to move people, but we don't have

794
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: a lot of penetration. And others like Kenya, we're in

795
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: the network and people are telling giving each other, are

796
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: uh contact info. Um. Also we have some capabilities we

797
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: had built up kind of center there, so we decided

798
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: to focus on Kenya. Kenya is relatively easy to get

799
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 1: into as far as visas and so on, and so

800
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: um it's a place we can send people when they

801
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: when we might have trouble getting them into uh say

802
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: Europe or the United States. Um, we can with and

803
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: so we're perfectly happy to end up with. Lots of

804
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: folks would like to make the place attractive enough that

805
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: it's also a place that we even have people coming

806
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: who aren't particularly in immediate danger. We'd be We're working

807
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: from a philosophy of abundance that we want to grow

808
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 1: and we have a rule of we don't want to

809
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: make a place that we wouldn't want to live ourselves.

810
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: And honestly, Eden House is a nice place. It was

811
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:40,959
Speaker 1: the personal home of of a rather wealthy family. It's

812
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: looks nice. Sorry, would you maybe like to describe for

813
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: us at your experience at the house, what it's like

814
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: and how places like this are important so that people

815
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: can understand. Maybe if you could start with how you

816
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: became aware of the Eden House and that that this

817
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: was an option that was available to you. Okay, So

818
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: um I met um um. We got in touch with

819
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: Anne ali this uh this year, yes, Alicia around February generally,

820
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: if I'm not wrong, so um we if that was

821
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: before Eden was formed. So we really had a long

822
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: discussion on us moving from where we are. Were at

823
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: the coast and things were really really brutal at the

824
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: coast side of Kenya, like we were going a lot

825
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: of stress, even lost to one of our friends, and

826
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 1: um yeah, it wasn't really good it was really bad.

827
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, we had a discussion about moving to um

828
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: to Eden House and that it was a working progress.

829
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: So we took some time working on that. So eventually

830
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: it happened and so we came to Eden House and

831
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: it's a very beautiful place. I would agree with that. Um. Yeah,

832
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 1: and yeah, and also flew all the way to hear

833
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 1: because we were new here and there were some things

834
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: that we needed done. And yeah, we are three of

835
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: us currently in Eden House. UM. I got in touch

836
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: with Anne and the rest of the team. There was

837
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: dooris on board. Actually she's the person who was like

838
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, responsible for the Malindi team. And yeah, the

839
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: two sisters that I have like okay, they're my sisters

840
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: because we've been through a lot of help together. So yeah, um,

841
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: we come all away from Malindi. Also we are here

842
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 1: together and so far. Um when we got here, UM,

843
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: the place it's very beautiful, but just needed a little

844
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: you know here and their decoration and you know, clarifications

845
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: and modifying and you know, precusuals were by you know

846
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: putting on security lights and the security wires. Yeah, still

847
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: some things need to be upgraded, but you know, um,

848
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: we still need to resource for a lot so that

849
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 1: we can have something's being done by So far, so good.

850
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: Everything is good. I'd interject that we're trying to foster

851
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: a spirit of self sufficiency and so we've been Um,

852
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: we've got everybody to make the furniture. Yeah, the furniture

853
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: in the house has been made by the residents. And

854
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: we're starting some various sort of fundraising, you know, our

855
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: income activities. We're we've made a chicken coop and we're

856
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 1: in the process of getting chickens, getting chickens and and

857
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: uh sewing machine. And one of our residents is a

858
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: talented artists. We're going to set her up to have

859
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: a place to sell her artwork. Ah, that's the kind

860
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: of things we're doing. Thank you. Um all. Yeah, I'm

861
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 1: really curious, kind of on a day to day basis,

862
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: what are the things that you and the other people

863
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: who are at the Eden House do in order to

864
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: like protect yourself, like when you're going about town, when

865
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: you're doing errands. Um, is there like a degree of

866
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: operational security that you have to keep in mind? Yeah, Actually,

867
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: we have a rule whereby we don't go anywhere without

868
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: letting each other know, especially if we're going to a

869
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: long distance UM. Putting in mind, we are very new

870
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: into this area, so we don't know a lot of places.

871
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: So currently we are just in the house trying to

872
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,919
Speaker 1: get to understand a few things. Actually, we've been doing

873
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: um um the repairing we have. We have a chicken

874
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: coope at the back. It's kind of a small um

875
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 1: as a small place whereby we needed to fix some things.

876
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: So we've been working on that so that we have

877
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: the place ready for the chicken when they're ready to

878
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: come in and all. So for me, I've been um

879
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 1: going around to see at least allocate some few places

880
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 1: where by, you know, we can feel safe, like the hospitals.

881
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: I've been trying to get in touch with people like

882
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: around here. I haven't been easy, but at least now

883
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: I can say I can go to an hospital that

884
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: at least it's kind of familiar with me. Um. Yeah.

885
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: We also have a place where we buy what are

886
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: these things that the house supplies and all that stuff.

887
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: We're really trying as much as possible to like minimize

888
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: our moving around from places to places to draw attention.

889
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: So we're just trying to go with time and see

890
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: how people will accept us existing to these community, So

891
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: we don't want to bring any attentions whereby people who

892
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: start asking questions like you know, what's happening there? What's

893
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: not happening there? Yeah? Yeah, I noticed as well that

894
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: the house is to belong to a politician. It's right.

895
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: So I have some measures of sort of external physical

896
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: security as well, Yeah, which is good. Maybe we can

897
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 1: talk about I know, you can use a big country

898
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: and it differs vastly depending on where you are and

899
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 1: who you're with. How is the climate towards trans folks?

900
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: I haven't been in Kenya for probably ten fifteen years.

901
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: How is the climate towards trans people? Have things? Have

902
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: it become like a big topic like a culture war

903
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 1: thing recently or is it sort of can you explain?

904
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: But I guess what it's like. You're saying. It seems

905
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: like it can be really just to go outside, which

906
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: is pretty sad. Yeah, yeah, it is. That is to

907
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: go outside, you know, um here and Kenya um in

908
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: different sides of kind of like at the coast, okay,

909
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: taking example at the coast side from where I come from.

910
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: It's um it's really bad for the trans community because

911
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: now they're they're very transphobic and homophobic people that like

912
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: most of the transphobic and homophobic people come at the

913
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: coast side. Because these are people that tend to keep

914
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 1: their culture and religious like you know, more of more

915
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: of a key thing in in someone's life, more of

916
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: like they use, They use the Quran and the Bible

917
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: to Prinsius to crititize the trans people and the gay community.

918
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: So being in that area it's very very bad and

919
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: very very risky for trans community. Comparing to the other

920
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: side of Kenya, I wouldn't say it's not risky, but um,

921
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: their level of understanding of the trans community and the

922
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: gay community, it's um, it's more of an it's more

923
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 1: of an away that they're kind of confused, not sure

924
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: where to understand. But it depends with also the air

925
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: that you are you might find you end up. For example,

926
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: now we're eating house is like for the few for

927
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: the man that we've been here. The feedback that I

928
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: can say I have from the community around here is

929
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: there like more of people that are come and more

930
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: of people who are you are more of used to

931
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 1: their own personal things. They don't like, you know, put

932
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: their nose into the to the things that they're not

933
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: involved with, if you get what I mean. Um, in

934
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 1: other towns having new people, people who like you want

935
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: to know why they're there and don't you know all

936
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: that stuff. But in this town that we have, we

937
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: are in eating house. It's it's kind of safe in

938
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: a way that people are not putting their nose in

939
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: into us, like more of wanting to know about us

940
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: rather than they're welcoming us. Moreover, you know, the landlord

941
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: is kind of friendly. I would say that, Um, the

942
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: cubander cubander, it's more of a small grocery shops. So

943
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: the cubanders around here, the small grocers the show are

944
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: the people who are selling the you know, the groceries

945
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 1: and other stuff. They're friendly. I haven't, Um, I haven't

946
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: in carred or you know, engaged or seeing any trans

947
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,959
Speaker 1: abic or homophobic reaction towards demand that I've been here.

948
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: Most of the people here are much of welcoming. Like

949
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: I would say that. End up. Yeah, it's really different

950
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: from where I come from. Trust me, from the town

951
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: that I come from, you can't walk with makeup or

952
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: with anything that makes you look galish or anything that

953
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: makes you look resemble to the transgender or maybe gay

954
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: or something. It will be a bad thing for you

955
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: in the day. Yeah, a little bit of the geography

956
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: of Kenya. Remember that U on Kenus coast up in

957
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: the north uh is the border with Somalia and um,

958
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: so the culture naturally mixes over the border. And um

959
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: this is also an area where lots of folks are

960
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: coming over because of the political instability and Somalia, and

961
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: it's an area of al shabab uh terrorist activity. So

962
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: so makes particularly the north part of the coast rather

963
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: dangerous plighte Yeah, just if people are interested, I know,

964
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: like the State Department sort of has it do not

965
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: travel like north of Lama pretty much, so like people

966
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: can sit on the map, but yeah, there are certain

967
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: areas where risk would be higher. And fortunately talking of that,

968
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: like it it hasn't. There have been some attacks, right

969
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 1: threats against Eden House in the last couple of days.

970
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: So if either of you would like to explain exactly

971
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: what happened as far as you're comfortable, I think that

972
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 1: would be great. Yeah, let me explain, because I think

973
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm the right person to explain that. So, um there, there,

974
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: there there, Okay, this happened when Amazon around here. Actually

975
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: we had an attack and now one of the windows.

976
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: People people breaked into their house, not inside the house,

977
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: but instide the compound and they tried getting in the house.

978
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, thank god the place has secured doors and windows.

979
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: But they took off one of the glass from the

980
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: window and they tried to like they had a stick

981
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: that was was was holding um, yeah, a magnet on

982
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 1: the end. So they were trying to use the stick

983
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: with the magnet to pull out the keys so that

984
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: they can have and clear entrance into the house. But

985
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 1: thank god, we had removed the keys to where we

986
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: used we normally used to put and kept it to

987
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: somewhere else. So the kids that we are aware they

988
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 1: were targeting, they were only the keys to the meter

989
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:46,959
Speaker 1: box and the fridge, so they took those and yeah,

990
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: I presume they later realized that they wouldn't go through

991
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: with those because we're not the right kids. So the

992
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: next thing we wake up in the morning, the magnet

993
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: was down on the floor and we noticed that the

994
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: window had the piece of last missing. So that was

995
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 1: the first incident that happened. So we reported that to um,

996
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 1: to the to the landlord, and previous day before that happened.

997
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: Those neighborhood came by and they said that someone tried

998
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: to break into their apartment and they are kind of

999
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: curious because they never knew if people moved into this

1000
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 1: house or they just wanted to check in what was

1001
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: going on, and that we can we kind of get

1002
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: into like you know, know each other, and that they

1003
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: kind of gave us a warning and that's why we

1004
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: removed the kids. And the day when they came, they

1005
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: couldn't get in. So yeah, after I left, Now this

1006
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: is a recent incident. That then then the next night

1007
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: they came back and found a couple of broken whendows

1008
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: in the morning, like they tried to price some windows

1009
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: out and ended up breaking glass and gave up. But

1010
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's so. At the time, I think we

1011
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 1: all the start of this as ordinary, you know, theft activity,

1012
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: but it's pretty unclear. But this maybe more targeted attack. Yeah,

1013
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: and perhaps it's silly of me to even ask this,

1014
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: but could you speak of it on what kind of

1015
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: help you can expect from law enforcement? If any um,

1016
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: I would say, if any I would say, like you

1017
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: see the place where we are staying, from the law enforcement,

1018
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: I would expect that they put some like you know,

1019
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: the they have a name that they put that that

1020
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: that the lights that normally the government's supposed to supply,

1021
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: like you know, the what what do they call that

1022
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: these lights that they normally have to support from the MS. Yes,

1023
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: street lights. So the place that you're staying, there's no

1024
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: street lights. So if if if, if if a police

1025
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: was to ask me or you know, any security measures

1026
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: that were to be put, like, I would say that

1027
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: they put the street lights. Those would help at least

1028
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: there will be more lights for like you know, that

1029
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: should scare people away, even if those people are thieves

1030
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: or anything. You see. So, yeah, that was that's what

1031
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: I would say. Okay, yeah, and I know two people

1032
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: were hurt in the most recent sort of active question right, yes, yes,

1033
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: this was the day before yesterday. Okay, are they doing okay, yeah,

1034
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: they're fine actually, and one of them I helped myself, yes,

1035
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: and one of them I have my arm injured but

1036
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: not really deep. The other one is asleep. She had

1037
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: a really bad injured back stabbed and you know at

1038
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: the arm also catched. Yeah eight teachers at the back

1039
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: really bad. Yeah, sorry, yeah, that's not good at all. Okay,

1040
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: So that that's not great, have you since the attack

1041
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: is like an ongoing aggression against you and it's seems

1042
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: like someone's targeting the inn house, right, Um, if you

1043
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: ask me, I would say it's more of targeting the

1044
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: eating house, because, um, I don't understand why we would

1045
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: only be the only person, like the only people experiencing

1046
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: the same the same incident over and over like the

1047
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: next the next houses. They don't complain in such incidents

1048
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: like you know, like this guy literally if um, I'm

1049
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: just picturing the fact that we had to go out

1050
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: and you know, turn on the machine and we saw

1051
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: this guy and he just bumped into us with a

1052
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: knife and catching us home. So I'm just picturing if

1053
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: this guy was waiting for like I'm just seeing it,

1054
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: if he was waiting for more people to come so

1055
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: that they can attack coming inside the house. Why was

1056
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: even standing there in the first place? Because we found

1057
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: him there and he was like he came through me

1058
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 1: because I was the one who was in the front.

1059
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: So I just keep asking myself, like why was he

1060
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: standing there? What was he waiting for? Yeah? Yeah, And

1061
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: I point out that to get there, to get there,

1062
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: he had to climb a high stone wall topped with

1063
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: razor wire and get into position without triggering the motion detectors. Yeah,

1064
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: which is you know, not impossible to do, but it it was,

1065
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: but they keep coming back. Yeah. Yeah, So I'm sure

1066
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: people listening will be upset by this. Is there a

1067
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: way that people can like express the solidarity or support

1068
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: you financially? Yes, we need funds to keep running the house.

1069
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: And in fact, the guy escaped through a hole that

1070
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 1: was left only because we ran out of razor wire.

1071
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: We need funds to keep the project going. We need

1072
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: funds to also to support our primary work. We're continuing

1073
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: to get people out of places like Saudi Arabia. We

1074
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: have people, we have people who are kind of who

1075
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: are in mid travel right now, and we have other

1076
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: people in the high de holes in dangerous countries, and

1077
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: we want to move all those people, and we'd like

1078
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: to start right now. We're not even taking new folks

1079
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: on because we just have such a backlog. I'd very

1080
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: much like to fix that situation. Um, So, for all

1081
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: these reasons you know, we're doing. We're happy with what

1082
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: we're doing, but but we do need funds at the moment.

1083
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: Let's get into that a little bit. You know the

1084
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: we here is trans Rescue, right, yeah, yes, Trans Rescue

1085
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: is a nonprofit and you're based in Europe and you

1086
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: move trans people out of dangerous situations. That's correct. We're

1087
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: based in Um. We're based in the Netherlands. We're a

1088
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: A sticking, which is the U in the US that

1089
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: would be a five oh one C three. We're an

1090
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 1: A n B I qualified sticking, which basically is a

1091
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: five O one C three. Okay, And you were telling

1092
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: us before we started the cool that you think it

1093
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: costs you about euros to move each person? Is that right? Yeah,

1094
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: that's the average. Um. The average is probably slightly going

1095
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: down because of course, to move somebody into eden House

1096
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: from the coast might be as cheap as uh eighty

1097
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: bucks to send them a ticket and then a few

1098
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: hundred dollars of settling them in eden House. On the

1099
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: other hand, getting people out of Sawdy oftentimes means not

1100
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: only flying of them, but sometimes flying our own personnel

1101
01:03:55,160 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: in and out on UM often kind of crazy roots.

1102
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: So a person might find themselves a long way from

1103
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: either Saudi or where they're finally going to end up,

1104
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: and as a result, and then so yeah, we end

1105
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: up having to spend a lot on plane tickets and

1106
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: then we also sometimes this takes months, we play paperwork games. Um,

1107
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: we are not people smugglers, but but we certainly are

1108
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: helping people get to a country where they can actually

1109
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: claim asylum for the most part, which means, um, you

1110
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: know and successfully claim this aylum. And that often means

1111
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: manipulating edge cases in the international travel system. Yeah, yeah,

1112
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: that makes it of sense. I can see whether it

1113
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: would be expensive and complicated. Yes, So it's great that

1114
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: people can do an h that is there anything like

1115
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:01,919
Speaker 1: I noticed you asking before for some mutual aid help

1116
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: with your PR? Is that something you still need? Look

1117
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: at the things people can do, maybe they don't have

1118
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 1: the means today. We were a small organization, we're not

1119
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 1: very large, and we actually are just cranking up our

1120
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: PR operation. Um. We could use a press list, we

1121
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 1: could use We could also use amplification from organizations with

1122
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: more kind of online cloud. We're basically a little group

1123
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: of people and for two years we operated as an

1124
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 1: informal group of activists. We realized that was probably not

1125
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 1: ideal for this very serious work we're doing, and so

1126
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: last December we reorganized as a proper sticting, but yeah,

1127
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: help with boosting our signal at the moment would be

1128
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: very useful. Anyone who can, you know, can spread the

1129
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: word of what's happened and now, so we would be

1130
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 1: very much appreciative. Yeah, well we can definitely do that.

1131
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: Hopefully every facts come to It's just so people can

1132
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 1: find you. It's Trands Underscore Rescue on Twitter, It's trans

1133
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: Underscore Rescue on twitsure, it's Trands Rescued or dot org

1134
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: on the web. I will share that fundraising link when

1135
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: when this comes out. Are how have things been for

1136
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 1: you the last couple of days, Like I must be

1137
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: pretty rough, I imagine, not not feeling safe at the house. Yeah. Actually,

1138
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 1: actually the advice that we got from the landlord and

1139
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 1: the neighbor. There's a neighbor here, a lady. She came

1140
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 1: by and I have a NUMBI called her the day

1141
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 1: we had an incident and she came in the morning

1142
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 1: when he had a tough So she suggested that we

1143
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: shouldn't be going out late night and by time we

1144
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 1: make sure that all the doors are locked and yes,

1145
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: and stay safe inside in case of anything. She asked

1146
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: me to kla and also the landlord asked me if

1147
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: in case of anything, if I hear any movement or

1148
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: any suspicious thing happening outside the gates, I just give

1149
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 1: them a call. It's good. It's good to people are

1150
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: sticking up here in your commune. It's really good to

1151
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 1: hear really good. Yeah. Yeah, we appreciate that, and on

1152
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: their behalf, what y'all are doing is very important, and

1153
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 1: we're you know, sorry that you're encountering this kind of resistance,

1154
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 1: but we hope we can help at least get the

1155
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 1: message out about what you were doing it. I'm much

1156
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you, It's much appreciated. UM. I regret

1157
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: that we spent most of the time on security. I'm

1158
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:44,960
Speaker 1: more I'm excited about, uh, many of the positive things

1159
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 1: we're doing. We're you know, we're trying to set up

1160
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: h a place where trans people can live their lives

1161
01:07:52,160 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: and thrive and and have you know, normal lives. Uh yeah,

1162
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:05,439
Speaker 1: let's talk about that. Let's talk about like, how many

1163
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 1: people do you have at the eating house right now?

1164
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 1: If you're comfortable sharing that. Sure, we just opened, so

1165
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: we've got three people, We've got one more person who

1166
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: UM went back to settle kind of settle his affairs

1167
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: and we'll be moving in UM. And we have UM

1168
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: and we've got space for eight at the moment um.

1169
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: We've had a couple of other people on choir but

1170
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: but haven't like, aren't there yet. We're kind of excited

1171
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 1: by the space we've got because there's actually room around

1172
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: us to grow, So we're expecting to get to get bigger. Um. Yeah,

1173
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 1: I hope you do. And how many peoples trying to

1174
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 1: rescue you been able to help, like as an organization

1175
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:58,759
Speaker 1: overrule one way or the other, We've we've moved about

1176
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: two dozen people. Of that, roughly a half have been

1177
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: the serious kind of get people out of Saudi Arabia

1178
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: type moves. The others have been folks that we helped

1179
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 1: in sort of less dramatic ways. Okay, yeah, that's a

1180
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: it's a very meaningful contribution to a lot of people's lives.

1181
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 1: That is great. Yeah, I get you know, it's great. Uh,

1182
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: at least one person lives locally, and it's great to

1183
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: kind of occasionally have him over for dinner or you know,

1184
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,599
Speaker 1: and know that we got him out. Yeah, that must

1185
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: be really nice. And I think, yeah, it's important not

1186
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 1: to just center like hatred but also about success. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah,

1187
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: I love that and it's cool that, like you have

1188
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: plans to grow. I've seen that you have agricultural areas around,

1189
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,799
Speaker 1: so you're thinking of like growing some food around the house.

1190
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: And actually we have brought some poles. We have some

1191
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:04,639
Speaker 1: vegetables like spinach, cabbage, to me, atoes, green paper. Yes,

1192
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 1: did they did? The gardens survived the flood? Uh? We

1193
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: Actually I was about to tell you that. Actually when

1194
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 1: the water was coming in the old all the spinach

1195
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: went and lied down, and we were kind of worried.

1196
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:24,759
Speaker 1: But when it stopped, when the water stopped flowing down,

1197
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: the sun came out, they kind of started going straight.

1198
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: So I was much worried about that. But it's kind

1199
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: of freaking out because they all went down and were

1200
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 1: like they're dead. We have a drainage problem in front

1201
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 1: of the house and the recently there was a crrential

1202
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 1: rain is hard to kill things. I did not know

1203
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: about Kenya. It hails there. I did not expect. I

1204
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: did not like sort of imagine hail, but but it

1205
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 1: hailed several times while is there and everybody was cold

1206
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: while I was walking around. The T shirt Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1207
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 1: I can you add some of our best weather and

1208
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 1: can you for sure? Yeah? And looking at these pictures,

1209
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 1: it's great to see you guys are making your own

1210
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: furniture and doing all these things and really enjoying your

1211
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 1: time there as well as obviously we don't want to

1212
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: just focus on the threat. So hopefully you can go

1213
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 1: back to that. Hopefully people can support you. Area's onywhere

1214
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 1: online people can find you. Do you have a Instagram

1215
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: or Twitter or anything like that? Yeah? I do have

1216
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: a treat to account. My tutor handle is at rams

1217
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 1: hyphen area. How do you can you spell that out

1218
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: for us? At MS? Okay then hyphen lower, hyphen underscore, Yeah, yeah,

1219
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: underscore then are I guess? Okay? Great? Yeah? And it's

1220
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: for for yourself and is it if it just trans

1221
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 1: Rescue it's our personal one and thing else you'd like

1222
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: to my mail if someone wants to contact me, is

1223
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 1: Annie A N N I E at trans Rescue dot org. Okay, yeah,

1224
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 1: hopefully And um we have a contact form on the

1225
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 1: website as well if people are interested in talking with us. Um, okay, great.

1226
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you'd like to get to before

1227
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:28,680
Speaker 1: we finish up here? Yes, at on Fridays. We have

1228
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:33,720
Speaker 1: a m we have office hours. So if you're in

1229
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: a country like the UK or the US and you

1230
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 1: would just like some advice or to explore your options,

1231
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 1: that's another service we offer as well. Are happy to

1232
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 1: talk with you on video about that. When would those

1233
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: be there? It's six pm Central European summertime, okay, which

1234
01:12:56,280 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 1: I think works out to midday in the U s

1235
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 1: okay some parts of the US. Yeah, and your fingers

1236
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: primarily in English. Those are primarily in English. If you

1237
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 1: speak Arabic and or Farsi or Urdu, contact us. We

1238
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 1: can arrange to have somebody who speaks those languages talk

1239
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:28,959
Speaker 1: with you. We maintain a telegram group trans Rescue and

1240
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 1: if you get on there you can use machine translation

1241
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: and talk with us very well. And we have Arabic

1242
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:40,320
Speaker 1: speakers the monitor that. Yeah, hopefully people can take advance

1243
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 1: to that if they need it. Thank you so much

1244
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 1: for your time, Like our platform is here for you

1245
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 1: if you want to share anything else, If anything else happens,

1246
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 1: please let us know, and we really appreciate you taking

1247
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:54,559
Speaker 1: the time a hopefully thank you, Yeah, thank you, thank

1248
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 1: you so much. Al Right, Okay, goodbye everyone, thank you

1249
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 1: by thank you, Hey, welcome to it could happen here.

1250
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: This is Robert Evans, and this is a podcast about

1251
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 1: things calling apart. UH. And today we definitely have a

1252
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: thing's well, I don't know, hopefully not falling apart, but

1253
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:30,720
Speaker 1: certainly getting fucked up episode for you. UM, this is

1254
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 1: going to be better part of the world that probably

1255
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 1: fairly few Americans spend much time thinking about. UM. It's

1256
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 1: certainly a conflict that's kind of been lost in everything

1257
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 1: that's happening in Ukraine right now. UM. But Armenia and Azerbaijan,

1258
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 1: their neighbor have been at a state of more or

1259
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: less regular war since UM since longer than that. But

1260
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: this kind of latest wave of it started in UM.

1261
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,759
Speaker 1: It was over a breakaway real while what's often referred

1262
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 1: to as a breakaway region that both countries claimed and

1263
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,719
Speaker 1: that stayed kind of independent for a very long time

1264
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: until invasion by the Azeris in this area which is

1265
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 1: majority Armenian UM. And it was kind of a military

1266
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 1: disaster for the Armenian side. The war went very badly,

1267
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:20,759
Speaker 1: a lot of troops were killed, a lot of territory

1268
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: was taken, and ever since the Azeri military has been

1269
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 1: carrying out border strikes in and around areas that are

1270
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 1: kind of near their shared border with Armenia. UM. Over

1271
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: the last ten hours, as I record this, and and

1272
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you all on Monday UHT of September,

1273
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:43,599
Speaker 1: over the last about ten hours, UM, the Azeri military

1274
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: has launched a fairly unprecedented set of strikes within Armenian territory. UM.

1275
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:50,760
Speaker 1: So not just kind of hitting border areas, and not

1276
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:54,679
Speaker 1: just hitting military targets, but hitting cities, hitting civilian areas,

1277
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,879
Speaker 1: trying to move troops across the border. There's video evidence

1278
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 1: of this. UM. To talk about what's happening, what's been

1279
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 1: happening in the past, over the last couple of years,

1280
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: and what's happening now, UM, I'd like to welcome on

1281
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:09,679
Speaker 1: Joe Kasabian. Joe you will know from his podcast Lions

1282
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 1: Led by Donkeys, from his book The Hooligans of Kandahar,

1283
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: and a number of other books that I think we'll

1284
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,439
Speaker 1: talk about a little bit at the end here from

1285
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:20,360
Speaker 1: his appearances on the Behind the Bastard. Joe, you are

1286
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 1: an American citizen, but you're also Armenian and you're currently

1287
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: in our media. Yeah, UM, I moved here a couple

1288
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: of months ago permanently, UM citizenship is we kind of

1289
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: have like our own repatriation laws. But I'm still waiting

1290
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 1: on that. UM. And so to to go off a

1291
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 1: couple of things that you said, we've been at a

1292
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:42,719
Speaker 1: state of war effectively since the nineties when we first

1293
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 1: gained independence from the Soviet Union. UM. Without going into

1294
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 1: the incredibly complicated history of Nagano Karaba or Artsach Um

1295
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 1: art so still exists. They did not take all of

1296
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: it in UM. But Tony Tony was a military disaster

1297
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:05,720
Speaker 1: for Armenia unequivalably. So we lost over four thousand people. UM,

1298
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 1: huge swaths of territory where UH their population became the

1299
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 1: victims of a regional genocide. UM. There are no Armenians

1300
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 1: that have been confirmed to still be alive within that territory. UM.

1301
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: There's endless videos of a ZI troops beheading old men

1302
01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 1: and women and and destroying homes and cemeteries and churches. UM.

1303
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:32,840
Speaker 1: And ever since UH the war ended in a month

1304
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: has not gone by where UM either art Saw or

1305
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 1: Armenia itself has not been attacked. We've probably lost over

1306
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 1: a hundred soldiers since then. UM. These are kids, their conscripts.

1307
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,920
Speaker 1: We have UM military mandatory service here. UM, so these

1308
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,679
Speaker 1: are eighteen nineteen year old kids doing their two years

1309
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:53,759
Speaker 1: of service. On top of the civilians that are currently

1310
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 1: being bombed. We we don't know how many people are

1311
01:17:56,600 --> 01:18:04,640
Speaker 1: dead at the moment um. And it's UM, it's truly aggravating.

1312
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 1: I mean, Armenians live with this all the time. It's

1313
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 1: a sort of hanging over our heads. When this is

1314
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 1: going to happen. Um happened with unpress attended international support

1315
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 1: and not only support, but willing willingly ignoring it. Um.

1316
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,240
Speaker 1: I mean NATO powers helped as er by Jean Doulas, UM,

1317
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 1: Turkey and Israel Israel, Israeli drone designers literally test flew

1318
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 1: as suicide drone into Armenian soldiers to sell it. Um.

1319
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's honestly kind of I don't

1320
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 1: know what what to say about it other than that's

1321
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 1: it should be another thing that the world should be

1322
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 1: united against and they never will. No. I mean, it's

1323
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:57,719
Speaker 1: it's so frustrating. One of the things that I have

1324
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 1: had a lot of issue with because obviously I, as

1325
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:04,639
Speaker 1: you are, I'm supportive of Ukrainian people's attempts to so

1326
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 1: far quite successful attempts to stop Russia from taking over

1327
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,599
Speaker 1: their homes. Um. But one of the things that's happened

1328
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 1: alongside this is a kind of lionization of a specific

1329
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,800
Speaker 1: kind of Turkish drone, the bractar Um, which was particularly

1330
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 1: effective in the opening stages of the war, and military

1331
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 1: technology military equipment. Walks can argue as to whether that

1332
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 1: was due to Russian kind of tactical failures and operational failures,

1333
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 1: or whether it was due to new realities about how

1334
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,879
Speaker 1: drones function. But one of the things that was ignored

1335
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 1: in all of this kind of fetishization of this drone

1336
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: and people raising money to buy more of them, is

1337
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 1: that the drones were really combat tested for the first time,

1338
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:49,400
Speaker 1: massacring Armenians. UM. Yeah, and it's I try not to

1339
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 1: get too mad when I see stuff like that, because

1340
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:56,920
Speaker 1: I understand whether Ukrainians are happy, of course, and like, yeah,

1341
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:00,600
Speaker 1: I should point out unequivalently I support Ukraine's fight for independence,

1342
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 1: just like I wish people um supported ours UM and

1343
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 1: and the war. The wars effectively have the same kind

1344
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 1: of propaganda angle. Um. Obviously, before Russia invaded Ukraine, they're

1345
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 1: talking about you know, Denozi vacation or demilitarization. When when

1346
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,280
Speaker 1: you look at their speeches and the rhetoric, it's that

1347
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 1: they believe that Ukraine does not have the right to

1348
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 1: exist and that Ukrainians are either are Russian or they

1349
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: also should not exist. And that's effectively what we're looking at. Two. UM,

1350
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 1: this is why Armenians constantly compare what is happening now

1351
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 1: to nine um. Ashba Jean continuously says they want art

1352
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,080
Speaker 1: Sah or the Nogana Karabak, they they want it back.

1353
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:46,040
Speaker 1: But that's not what they're attacking right now. UM. If

1354
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 1: you look at the rhetoric of Aliev and his government

1355
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 1: going all the way back to the nineties when his

1356
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:55,440
Speaker 1: dad was in charge and a few other people. Um,

1357
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 1: their ideology is that Armenia is not a real state.

1358
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: They have claims over our capital Yerevan. They have they

1359
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 1: have claims over the south where they're invading right now,

1360
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:10,719
Speaker 1: and everywhere those soldiers go they wipe out the local

1361
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:15,520
Speaker 1: population of Armenians. There are no Armenian survivors and Hadrud

1362
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:17,439
Speaker 1: or Shushi or any of these other places they took

1363
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 1: in there, they do not exist. And ever since then,

1364
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 1: they've been purposely going through and destroying any evidence that

1365
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 1: Armenians ever lived there, which is ridiculous. Armenians have been

1366
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 1: living in these places since before Rome was fucking established. Yeah, um,

1367
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean, and this is obviously we're talking about the

1368
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:41,799
Speaker 1: Armenian genocide, which occurred during kind of the in concurrent

1369
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:45,600
Speaker 1: to the kind of late stages of World War One. UM,

1370
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:50,559
Speaker 1: and uh was unrecognized by the United States until what

1371
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 1: was that now, two years ago Joe yeah something finally

1372
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 1: became the first president, first US president, to recognize it.

1373
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 1: And and this is because we We've mentioned Turkey a

1374
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:02,040
Speaker 1: couple of times. There's a couple of reasons for this,

1375
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 1: but most of them boiled down to not wanting to

1376
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 1: piss up, piss off the Turkish government. Um. The Turkish

1377
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 1: government has strong attitudes that essentially everybody in Anatolia is

1378
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 1: Turkish and all. Yes, there were no Greeks, there were

1379
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:19,640
Speaker 1: no Kurds, there were no Army, and this has led to,

1380
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 1: I mean, it's led to ethnic cleansings and genocides against

1381
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 1: the Armenians and against the Kurds. One of the things

1382
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 1: that was being done in ro Java, UM that I

1383
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:30,960
Speaker 1: found so compelling was was an attempt to educate, an

1384
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:34,320
Speaker 1: attempt to buy the Kurds there to educate people who

1385
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 1: were joining the YPG about Kurdish complicity in the genocide

1386
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:41,880
Speaker 1: against Armenia because they recognize themselves as victims of the

1387
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 1: same thing. You know, starting I think you know all

1388
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:47,160
Speaker 1: of the it's hard to say starting in right, because

1389
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:50,120
Speaker 1: we're trying to talk about concurrent conference. They all go back.

1390
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: Everything's going back quite a while. You mentioned Ali of

1391
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 1: a little bit ago, and I don't want to talk

1392
01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:57,599
Speaker 1: about him. Um, we're talking about il Ham Aliev, who's

1393
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:00,960
Speaker 1: the current president of Azerbaijan, the worth uh and of

1394
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:03,800
Speaker 1: course the the son of the former leader, which is

1395
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 1: always a recipe for a good functional des Also his

1396
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:11,320
Speaker 1: wife as vice president. Yeah, and his wife is vice president,

1397
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 1: which is nice. It's just like it's just like house

1398
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 1: of cars. Yeah, he's the Kevin spacey. Um. His his

1399
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:25,240
Speaker 1: attitude and rhetoric towards Armenian in general is eliminationists at best. Um,

1400
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 1: like he's I mean, the country's put out stamps that

1401
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:34,760
Speaker 1: show Armenia being fumigated like dirt went during the height

1402
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:39,120
Speaker 1: of the pandemic, which like as a genocide scholar. You know, generally,

1403
01:23:39,160 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 1: when I see a picture of a place being gassed,

1404
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 1: I get suspicious. Um. Uh, they've talked, they've talked about

1405
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 1: how it was a good thing that in the nineties

1406
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 1: Armenians were driven from Buku and the Bukoprograms and a

1407
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:58,799
Speaker 1: few other places. Um, I mean weren't there like literally

1408
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: like some of those drop these arms shows and stuff

1409
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 1: like pieces of captured equipment with blood on it and stuff. Yeah,

1410
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:08,520
Speaker 1: and they also had, um honestly one of the weirdest,

1411
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:13,320
Speaker 1: like it's incredibly offensive and racist, uh, the these um

1412
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: caricatures of our of Armenian soldiers who like, at the

1413
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,960
Speaker 1: same time they're like racist towards Armenians but also vaguely

1414
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 1: anti Semitic, Like they looked like a character of a

1415
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 1: Jewish person to come out of their sturmer um with

1416
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,679
Speaker 1: like you know, and I understand how stereotypically people think

1417
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:34,720
Speaker 1: Armenians look in like these racist art where we have

1418
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,719
Speaker 1: you know, big hooked noses and big eyebrows and things

1419
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,800
Speaker 1: like that, which admittedly I know I meet both of

1420
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,880
Speaker 1: those personally, but that's besides the point of Like if

1421
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:46,679
Speaker 1: you look at the pictures and they were taken down

1422
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 1: because like even like Israel was like oh that's a

1423
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 1: bit much, and like they help that happen. Um. But

1424
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:56,240
Speaker 1: like also to talk you can't talk about as by

1425
01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:59,760
Speaker 1: genre without talking about Turkey because they have this ideology

1426
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:03,640
Speaker 1: that's like two people, one state. They do believe in

1427
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 1: like pan Turranism, especially urd iwan Um. I mean he's

1428
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:11,439
Speaker 1: been ever ever since, he's gone like full fascist, That's

1429
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:13,679
Speaker 1: something he's been hammering the drum on and like this

1430
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 1: is an extension of that. He's effectively a neo Ottomanist.

1431
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,200
Speaker 1: He wants to reunite the Oman Empire, which is fucking

1432
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 1: insane but also has real life things, you know, but

1433
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:27,760
Speaker 1: also to bring us, you know, to the conflict that

1434
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:30,519
Speaker 1: Americans are more focusing on. As we've talked about before,

1435
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 1: this is another similarity between what Russia is doing in

1436
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:35,879
Speaker 1: Ukraine and what is Erbajon and Turkey are doing in Armenia.

1437
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: They're both these kind of um redemptionist dreams of people

1438
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 1: who want to bring back some sort of lost imperial splendor,

1439
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 1: right and are are utilizing kind of the tactics that

1440
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:54,599
Speaker 1: the technics of genocide in order to try to make

1441
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 1: that happen. Yeah, I think for Turkey it's a lot

1442
01:25:57,400 --> 01:26:00,559
Speaker 1: of this lost splendor, especially as their economy, it's itself

1443
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 1: from mismanagement, and I think for Azerbaijan it's the other

1444
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:08,559
Speaker 1: way around. In the nineties, when we fought the first

1445
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:12,600
Speaker 1: car A bah War, Armenia one UM. I mean it

1446
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 1: wasn't from being military's military, militarily superior, having more money.

1447
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 1: It had to do with two largely unorganized forces in

1448
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:25,640
Speaker 1: the fallout of the Soviet Union, and Armenia end up winning. UM.

1449
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:28,439
Speaker 1: And ever since then, that loss has been something of

1450
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 1: like national It's like it's kind of like the national

1451
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,719
Speaker 1: mythos of Azebaijan, because before then Azerbaijan is a national

1452
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 1: identity simply didn't exist. It's relatively new UM. And that

1453
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 1: loss in that war became the defining moment. That's where UM,

1454
01:26:44,280 --> 01:26:49,200
Speaker 1: the lost Armenia was internalized and like it became school

1455
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 1: curriculum that Armenians were the were at fault for everything.

1456
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:55,759
Speaker 1: We're sub human, we've been compared to cockroaches. Like for instance,

1457
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 1: if you have, say my last name, you cannot legally

1458
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:01,679
Speaker 1: enter the country of Azebaijan. You cannot enter that country

1459
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 1: with an Armenian last name, it's racism, and fascism is

1460
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 1: state doctrine there. So when you know their oil production

1461
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,559
Speaker 1: kicked back up from after the war damages and after

1462
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 1: the fallout of the Soviet Union, on top of military

1463
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 1: reforms that have been lasting for thirty years, they're the

1464
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 1: ones on the up swing now, not Turkey in my opinion,

1465
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:26,679
Speaker 1: and it also helps their fighting someone like Armenia, which

1466
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:29,600
Speaker 1: no Armenians that we have military history and everything, but

1467
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 1: we have no fucking money, we have no natural resources,

1468
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:34,720
Speaker 1: we have no allies, we have no one's gonna air

1469
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 1: drop palettes of fucking high Mars and Yerevan like nobody's

1470
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:40,720
Speaker 1: coming to help us. We have a k S that

1471
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 1: fought in the First War, we have BMP ones that

1472
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:46,559
Speaker 1: have probably seen more combat than most people who are

1473
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 1: still alive, an armored personnel carrier. Essentially we we have nothing. Um.

1474
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: I'm not going to speak about the cape bills of

1475
01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:57,120
Speaker 1: the Armenian military, but like you can imagine what a

1476
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:00,479
Speaker 1: small landlocked country with a small population, not lot of money,

1477
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:04,960
Speaker 1: can field. It's not a lot. Um, Yeah, it's not

1478
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 1: a lot. And this kind of gets us to another

1479
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:09,200
Speaker 1: topic that has to be broached with this which is

1480
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:11,400
Speaker 1: kind of talking about the relationship of Russia to all

1481
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 1: this because one of the things that's very frustrating about

1482
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:19,880
Speaker 1: this conflict is that Americans particularly tend to want things

1483
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,719
Speaker 1: very simply. So you hear you've got a Russian client state,

1484
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:25,880
Speaker 1: which is how it is, not what Armenia is. I'm

1485
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 1: not saying that, Joe, obviously, but is how it's easy

1486
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 1: to especially like kind of in the boil out, sort

1487
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:33,479
Speaker 1: of break things out as it's like, Okay, you've got

1488
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:35,840
Speaker 1: this state backed by Russia and then you've got this

1489
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:38,400
Speaker 1: other state fighting that that's backed by Turkey. Well, Turkey's

1490
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:40,599
Speaker 1: part of NATO, they're part of, you know, the fight

1491
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:42,479
Speaker 1: against Russia, so they must be the good guys. And

1492
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: none of that's accurate. But I think it's I think

1493
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:48,360
Speaker 1: it's important to explain why. So, I mean, it's it's

1494
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:54,040
Speaker 1: really hard to explain Armenia and Russia's relationship other than imperialism. Um. Obviously,

1495
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:57,080
Speaker 1: Armenia has been conquered by countless countries throughout our fucking

1496
01:28:57,080 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 1: long history, but the most recent one being the Soviet Union,

1497
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:04,040
Speaker 1: which we did not join willingly. Um. And then after

1498
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:06,559
Speaker 1: the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation. Um,

1499
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 1: we're solidly within Russia's fear of influences by no active

1500
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:13,360
Speaker 1: choice of ours were members of the c tso were

1501
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 1: members of the Eurasian Economic Union, and neither of those

1502
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:18,679
Speaker 1: were by choice. We were strong armed into it because

1503
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:22,480
Speaker 1: there's no there's nothing else, there's no other option. Um.

1504
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: And as far as it goes, is is like the

1505
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 1: brotherly relationship or this client state. It would be exactly

1506
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:33,640
Speaker 1: like someone blaming Ukraine for what happened in Maidan, or

1507
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 1: blaming Ukraine for what happened in or what happened now

1508
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 1: because they're trying to get away from that. I mean,

1509
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:45,440
Speaker 1: we can't. We don't have the resources to do it.

1510
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 1: Just just for an example of how Armenia plays like

1511
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 1: tight ropes, this ship never once if we voted in

1512
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 1: favor of Russia during this war. We like they're like

1513
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 1: our representatives to the U n our our Ministry of

1514
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 1: Foreign Affairs are prime. This there is solidly neutral because

1515
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 1: that's the best he can do. Um. Right, you know

1516
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:09,599
Speaker 1: he's either voted against, uh, he's voted uh, he's abstained.

1517
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:11,800
Speaker 1: He's never voted for to support Russia during this war

1518
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:15,760
Speaker 1: at all. Um, Now, Obviously, back in there was a

1519
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 1: different Armenia. UM. We had a pro EU movement here

1520
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:22,439
Speaker 1: that was quite strong. This is before I lived here,

1521
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:26,680
Speaker 1: of course, UM that voted to declare our intentions to

1522
01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:28,719
Speaker 1: want to join the EU. I believe this is under

1523
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:34,920
Speaker 1: President Sergisan UM and it passed overwhelmingly in the popular vote,

1524
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:38,200
Speaker 1: because unlike the people invading us, we are a free

1525
01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:40,640
Speaker 1: and fair democracy with the freedom of speech and expression

1526
01:30:40,640 --> 01:30:42,679
Speaker 1: and everything else that people like to claim they want

1527
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:47,360
Speaker 1: to defend, but they don't UM. And after a five

1528
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:50,600
Speaker 1: minute meeting with Putin, it was gone. There's no more referendum,

1529
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:52,920
Speaker 1: and we decided not to join the EU anymore. But

1530
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:55,479
Speaker 1: we I mean the president. After that we had our

1531
01:30:55,560 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 1: Velvet Revolution which got rid of him UM and distance

1532
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:05,160
Speaker 1: ourselves from Russia as much as we realistically could so

1533
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:10,280
Speaker 1: inten I believe UH. For instance, Armenia UH kind of

1534
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:14,160
Speaker 1: slightly supported Russia when it came to annexing Crimea. And

1535
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:17,320
Speaker 1: now you can kind of see why the president was

1536
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:20,680
Speaker 1: a fucking stooge. That's not the case anymore. We now

1537
01:31:20,680 --> 01:31:23,160
Speaker 1: have a parliamentary system and as much as I am

1538
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:25,200
Speaker 1: not the biggest fan of Prime Minister or passion Yon,

1539
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:29,720
Speaker 1: He's not that guy. That's not like the Armenia is

1540
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:34,840
Speaker 1: a different world. Um. And I know, like like you said,

1541
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:37,000
Speaker 1: people really like to simplify these things. They want this

1542
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:39,000
Speaker 1: to be a team sport. They want this to be

1543
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:42,600
Speaker 1: NATO versus Russia, and you know, people like Belarus or

1544
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:45,719
Speaker 1: whoever else. But there's a there's a pretty big fucking

1545
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 1: difference here. We have not actively supported this war. There

1546
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:53,840
Speaker 1: has been anti war protests outside my fucking window since

1547
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 1: the war has started. Ukrainians have flooded here by the

1548
01:31:57,479 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 1: thousands and they have met nothing but Armenians who have

1549
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:02,479
Speaker 1: well come down with open arms. Russians have come too,

1550
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:04,320
Speaker 1: and we're not the biggest fans of them, but what

1551
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:09,320
Speaker 1: can you do about um. You know, like we're we're

1552
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:11,840
Speaker 1: solidly neutral in this and it's one of the things

1553
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 1: that fucking and I mean granted neutral government wise, people wise. Absolutely,

1554
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:19,240
Speaker 1: we're not neutral. Um. And one of the things that

1555
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 1: pisces me off the most is that people can see

1556
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:25,840
Speaker 1: the realities of the war in Ukraine where they can

1557
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:30,479
Speaker 1: see right through Russian propaganda when it's like demilitarization, denification, whatever,

1558
01:32:31,240 --> 01:32:33,920
Speaker 1: and they can see on its face that's complete and

1559
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:38,760
Speaker 1: utter bullshit. But like when because you know, Ukraine is

1560
01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:41,320
Speaker 1: fighting for their sovereignty, their independence, and the right to

1561
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:45,439
Speaker 1: exist that we all have, um, and when it comes

1562
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:48,679
Speaker 1: to us, we don't get that, like, oh, well, we're

1563
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:50,960
Speaker 1: calling for both sides a de escalate and maybe our

1564
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:54,120
Speaker 1: omnia shouldn't have started this. We haven't done anything. It

1565
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:57,599
Speaker 1: was fucking midnight last night and the South started being bombed.

1566
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:00,160
Speaker 1: What the fund is there to be de escalated? You

1567
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 1: can't deescalate self defense. So you have what is a

1568
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:08,160
Speaker 1: really uncomfortable situation and one that a lot of people

1569
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 1: don't like talking about the reality of because essentially, when

1570
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 1: you have a country like Azerbaijan that is insisting on

1571
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:17,920
Speaker 1: repeatedly violating the territory of its neighbor um and that

1572
01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:21,160
Speaker 1: has proven not just a willingness but an eagerness to

1573
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:24,440
Speaker 1: engage and engage in acts of ethnic cleansing and genocide,

1574
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:27,120
Speaker 1: you have two options for dealing with that other than

1575
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,640
Speaker 1: let them do it right. Option one is send in

1576
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 1: peacekeepers to stop the aggression. Now Russia has troops that

1577
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:39,519
Speaker 1: were called peacekeepers in the area. Um. You know, there's

1578
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:42,320
Speaker 1: you could debate prior to the invasion of Ukraine. How

1579
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 1: good they were at that job, um, but they certainly

1580
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 1: are not capable of doing it now. Um. So then

1581
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:51,599
Speaker 1: the question is, okay, who else? Who? What? Who else

1582
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:53,639
Speaker 1: is peacekeepers are gonna come in? Right? And if that's

1583
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:56,360
Speaker 1: not a realistic solution and you don't want to let

1584
01:33:56,680 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 1: Azerbaijan just do a genocide, then what you do issue

1585
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:04,800
Speaker 1: give them weapons Armenia weapons, not as people already doing

1586
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 1: that part unfortunately the US. Yeah, indeed, um. And again

1587
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:15,200
Speaker 1: there's this we're all kind of in terms of like

1588
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 1: the discourse around this in the United States living in

1589
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:20,559
Speaker 1: the shadow of the War on Terror, in which an

1590
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:25,360
Speaker 1: irresponsible quantity of weapons were handed out to an irresponsible

1591
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 1: variety of groups. Um, and many of them went to

1592
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:32,559
Speaker 1: bad ends in bad places. Um. The reality is that,

1593
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:35,240
Speaker 1: you know, we're sitting on a fucking stockpile of weapons

1594
01:34:35,240 --> 01:34:37,600
Speaker 1: here in the United States as tall as the sky

1595
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 1: and handing over a tiny percent of that. When people

1596
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:42,759
Speaker 1: talk about like that we're giving this much aid Ukraine,

1597
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:46,160
Speaker 1: We're not spending that much cash straight on ad Ukraine.

1598
01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 1: We're picking up ship we have in mothballs and we'll

1599
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:50,519
Speaker 1: we're handing it to them because we've spent all of

1600
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:54,559
Speaker 1: our treasure on on a pile of guns larger than

1601
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:57,519
Speaker 1: you can conceive of in terms of its actual size

1602
01:34:57,520 --> 01:35:01,040
Speaker 1: and weight. UM. And I don't know, like when when

1603
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:04,920
Speaker 1: I think about what is to be fucking done here realistically, UM,

1604
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 1: I would like for our Menia to have access to javelins.

1605
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:12,000
Speaker 1: And I'm send some stingers. Even. One of the things

1606
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,599
Speaker 1: that pisses me off is like, like you said, there's

1607
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:16,760
Speaker 1: two options here, you do nothing, and you're complicit in

1608
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:19,920
Speaker 1: a genocide. That's what this hits like. It's it's like

1609
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:24,720
Speaker 1: being silent and you know, um and in ninet, it's

1610
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:27,680
Speaker 1: being silent, in nineteen fifteen, it's being silent Rwanda, we

1611
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:30,000
Speaker 1: were silent during most of those things, and we saw

1612
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:34,200
Speaker 1: how they were, Like, there's only one way this fucking

1613
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 1: ends if we don't get guns, and that's with a

1614
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:39,759
Speaker 1: lot of dead Armenians. That that that and by supporting

1615
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:43,799
Speaker 1: Azerbaijan or sitting out that is what you explicitly support

1616
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 1: is thousands and thousands of dead civilians. Like that's the

1617
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:54,320
Speaker 1: only way this ends. And it is again and I

1618
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:56,600
Speaker 1: hate keep that. We keep going back to Ukraine, but

1619
01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,719
Speaker 1: it's relevant because it's the the the it's the conflict

1620
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:02,719
Speaker 1: that we're actually focusing on the people who are counter

1621
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:06,839
Speaker 1: on on anti side, providing weapons to the Ukrainian military

1622
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:09,800
Speaker 1: and make claims about corruption, which they could also make

1623
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:13,360
Speaker 1: about the Armenian government, um, and claims about you know,

1624
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:17,360
Speaker 1: arms trafficking and all that stuff. But so far and Ukraine,

1625
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:19,840
Speaker 1: by the way, is a country with a deeper history

1626
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:24,479
Speaker 1: of corruption, significantly in the Armenian government even um, we

1627
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:30,439
Speaker 1: haven't government is less corrupt than Ukraine's. Yeah, Um, you

1628
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:32,280
Speaker 1: haven't seen a ton of that happening. What you have

1629
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:35,360
Speaker 1: seen is the weapons that have been handed to them,

1630
01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:39,320
Speaker 1: blowing up invaders, tanks and aircraft. Um. And the sheer

1631
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:43,920
Speaker 1: quantity that has been destroyed is evidence that that weaponry

1632
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:46,320
Speaker 1: has been used pretty responsibly. And when you were talking

1633
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 1: about a group of people facing annihilation, I'm simply not

1634
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:52,799
Speaker 1: worried that they're going to sell their stingers to fucking

1635
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:56,040
Speaker 1: Isis or wherever are we going to sell them to Turkey?

1636
01:36:56,080 --> 01:37:01,760
Speaker 1: In one side the Georgia, that's actually fine, like you know,

1637
01:37:02,040 --> 01:37:06,160
Speaker 1: and that's I think people are fucking gutless. Um, you

1638
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:09,120
Speaker 1: saw this happen in February before they're in January, before

1639
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:12,280
Speaker 1: the war in Ukraine started, when people like, oh, weapons

1640
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:14,479
Speaker 1: are only gonna make it worse. No, they're fucking not.

1641
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:18,719
Speaker 1: You know what's worse than than an armed population defending

1642
01:37:18,760 --> 01:37:22,000
Speaker 1: itself is an unarmed one being murdered anyway. And we

1643
01:37:22,360 --> 01:37:26,000
Speaker 1: in case nobody paid attention, because they probably didn't, you

1644
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:28,120
Speaker 1: can go back and look at the video footage of

1645
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:31,920
Speaker 1: what happens to unarmed Armenians, and it's the same fucking

1646
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:34,800
Speaker 1: ship Isis did to yuz S. It's the same fucking

1647
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:36,920
Speaker 1: ship they did occurreds, and it's the same fucking ship

1648
01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 1: that will happen again if we do not get what

1649
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:41,640
Speaker 1: we need to defend ourselves. And I don't give a

1650
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:43,800
Speaker 1: funk if you don't like Russia. I don't fucking like

1651
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 1: Russia either. But it's the reality that we live in.

1652
01:37:46,479 --> 01:37:50,080
Speaker 1: If you're if you're fucking intelligent enough to realize the

1653
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:54,720
Speaker 1: diplomacy and geopolitics of how Ukraine ended up in the

1654
01:37:54,760 --> 01:37:57,040
Speaker 1: war that they're in now, you should understand why we

1655
01:37:57,080 --> 01:37:59,679
Speaker 1: are in the situation that we are into. You cannot

1656
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:03,760
Speaker 1: really sistickally believe we deserve what is happening unless you

1657
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:08,040
Speaker 1: also believe Ukraine deserves what's happening to them. It's impossible.

1658
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:14,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. This is obviously how could this not

1659
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:18,280
Speaker 1: be like emotional and and and it is just feeling

1660
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:21,559
Speaker 1: like I can't and it must be so much worse

1661
01:38:21,560 --> 01:38:25,680
Speaker 1: obviously just being there, but like this, this feeling of

1662
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:30,360
Speaker 1: a fucking train coming at you, and people aren't gonna

1663
01:38:30,479 --> 01:38:34,400
Speaker 1: do ship because there's this fucking problem with optic And

1664
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:36,200
Speaker 1: it's more complicated when we talk about I'm talking about

1665
01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:38,640
Speaker 1: we wanna talk about optics, I guess we're talking about discourse.

1666
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:41,880
Speaker 1: When it comes about like why politically the United States

1667
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:44,840
Speaker 1: is unlikely to do anything like what we've suggested, It's

1668
01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 1: more complicated than that, and a decent amount of it

1669
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:48,840
Speaker 1: comes down to the fact that we have what is it,

1670
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:53,559
Speaker 1: thirteen nuclear weapons stationed in Turkey right now, which land

1671
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:58,960
Speaker 1: stolen from Armenians from the genocide. Great stuff, America, well done,

1672
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:03,080
Speaker 1: We really knocked that out of the park. What is

1673
01:39:03,120 --> 01:39:05,920
Speaker 1: it that people can do to help outside of you know,

1674
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:08,680
Speaker 1: trying to become informed about the conflict, which I think

1675
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:10,640
Speaker 1: we can talk about some sources at the end of this.

1676
01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:13,519
Speaker 1: Are there places, you know, Red Cross style things that

1677
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:16,559
Speaker 1: people can donate to to help to the extent that

1678
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:19,760
Speaker 1: that's kind of a thing is helpful. Yeah, Um, I mean,

1679
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:25,040
Speaker 1: you know, generally crowdfunding for weapons systems is illegal unless

1680
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:29,040
Speaker 1: you're Ukraine nowadays, so I'm thinking more about medical. Um,

1681
01:39:29,160 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 1: the Armenian Red Cross is always a good option. They

1682
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:33,840
Speaker 1: helped a lot, and they still help now we still

1683
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:37,360
Speaker 1: have a ton of internally displaced people. Um. There's also

1684
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 1: the hind drum In Fund, which directly funds wounded servicemen

1685
01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:47,800
Speaker 1: because we really don't have a v A exactly here. Um.

1686
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:51,679
Speaker 1: There's quite a few other ones, but the the Armenian

1687
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:55,960
Speaker 1: Red Crosses of course the most reliable and easy to

1688
01:39:56,000 --> 01:39:57,559
Speaker 1: donate if you're in the West. For sure. You don't

1689
01:39:57,560 --> 01:40:00,519
Speaker 1: have to navigate any confusing Armenian language website. It's because

1690
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:03,839
Speaker 1: it's it's hard and mean, it isn't great with the internet,

1691
01:40:03,960 --> 01:40:08,439
Speaker 1: so like most of them don't have translations. Um, but

1692
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:12,800
Speaker 1: you know it's yeah, I understand I'm a little bit

1693
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:15,360
Speaker 1: more emotional than most people. Probably hear me on podcasts,

1694
01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:21,800
Speaker 1: but like, um, I'm mad, I'm mad, I'm fucking frustrated. Um,

1695
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 1: I don't know how much longer people can let this

1696
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:27,840
Speaker 1: kind of thing happen. Um, I hope the e use

1697
01:40:28,240 --> 01:40:31,120
Speaker 1: gas this winter is fucking worth it, because this is

1698
01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:33,720
Speaker 1: what you got. This is what that deal got us.

1699
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:36,679
Speaker 1: So I hope you're nice and warm in the fucking

1700
01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:39,240
Speaker 1: winter because we probably won't have power or we'll have

1701
01:40:39,439 --> 01:40:43,080
Speaker 1: more dead or whatever. But real glad you pivoted away

1702
01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:45,639
Speaker 1: from Russian gas and sign a deal. Fucking as Jean,

1703
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:51,479
Speaker 1: you spineless fox. And it's a I mean, it goes

1704
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:54,600
Speaker 1: it's the spinelessness is deeper than that, right, because the

1705
01:40:54,680 --> 01:40:57,920
Speaker 1: reason why the fucking gas crunch that led to that

1706
01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:01,799
Speaker 1: deal happened in the first place was among a number

1707
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:06,600
Speaker 1: of things, years of seeding to Russian government aggression in

1708
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:10,000
Speaker 1: places like Georgia, in the places like Ukraine, and you've

1709
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:12,639
Speaker 1: got that, you know, here you have the invasion by

1710
01:41:12,760 --> 01:41:15,920
Speaker 1: a Zerbaijan almost like two years ago now, and then

1711
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:21,920
Speaker 1: there's that and and no pushback. Right, this is this

1712
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:24,439
Speaker 1: is the thing is And this is not a popular

1713
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:26,679
Speaker 1: kind of thing to go to talk about on the left,

1714
01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:29,400
Speaker 1: but but it's true. If you want to pay attention

1715
01:41:29,439 --> 01:41:32,840
Speaker 1: to why why that whole World War two situation got

1716
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:36,760
Speaker 1: so goddamn bad, A big part of it is they're

1717
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:40,320
Speaker 1: not being any kind of effective rules based international order

1718
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:43,800
Speaker 1: to stop bigger countries or at least more aggressive ones,

1719
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:46,400
Speaker 1: from fucking with their neighbors. And one of the things

1720
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:48,640
Speaker 1: we were supposed to have learned from that war is

1721
01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:57,120
Speaker 1: that you don't let people do that. It's bad and right. Yeah, yeah,

1722
01:41:57,200 --> 01:41:59,280
Speaker 1: like it shouldn't be that hard. I don't care what

1723
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:01,679
Speaker 1: your politics is. I mean, everybody knows that we're both

1724
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:06,080
Speaker 1: very left wing. But when someone comes continuously fox with you,

1725
01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:08,360
Speaker 1: the only way to make them stop is by hitting

1726
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:10,439
Speaker 1: them in the goddamn face until they realize it's not

1727
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:14,599
Speaker 1: a good idea like this, Like diplomacy doesn't work when

1728
01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 1: one side only wants you dead. You can't debate my

1729
01:42:18,720 --> 01:42:21,080
Speaker 1: right to live, or my neighbor's right to live, or

1730
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:23,799
Speaker 1: these kids right to live. Very they're fucking schools bombed

1731
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:26,559
Speaker 1: right now, there's no debate to be had. You have

1732
01:42:26,680 --> 01:42:30,160
Speaker 1: to hit them until they fucking stop. There's like, I'm sorry,

1733
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:33,720
Speaker 1: there's not gonna be any de escalation of fucking genocide.

1734
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:37,320
Speaker 1: Like that's not how this works. People tend to get

1735
01:42:37,400 --> 01:42:41,760
Speaker 1: this in the immediate sense when you're talking about, you know,

1736
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:44,400
Speaker 1: some fucking bigot in front of you everybody everybody loves,

1737
01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:47,800
Speaker 1: you know, cheering on a video of some guy, you know,

1738
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 1: dropping a racial slur and getting knocked to the ground.

1739
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:55,599
Speaker 1: Obviously those are a lot of um. But the moral

1740
01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:58,800
Speaker 1: is that if you let assholes. The actual moral of

1741
01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:01,519
Speaker 1: like why it's important to punch Nazis in the face

1742
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:03,479
Speaker 1: when they're doing Nazi ship is that if you just

1743
01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:05,320
Speaker 1: let them do Nazi ship and you try to like

1744
01:43:05,360 --> 01:43:08,000
Speaker 1: appease them and calm them down, you'll often calm them

1745
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:09,800
Speaker 1: down here and there, and they're like, back off, but

1746
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:11,599
Speaker 1: they'll have gotten a little bit more, They'll have gotten

1747
01:43:11,600 --> 01:43:12,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of what they want, they'll have gotten

1748
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:15,639
Speaker 1: a little bit further, and they just keep making shit

1749
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:19,960
Speaker 1: worse until somebody actually does fucking drop them. And it's

1750
01:43:19,960 --> 01:43:25,160
Speaker 1: the same with you know. And again I I we

1751
01:43:25,200 --> 01:43:27,040
Speaker 1: just talked about with the great lesson of World War

1752
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:29,120
Speaker 1: two should have been and the thing that actually happens

1753
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:32,160
Speaker 1: the generation that took power in the United States and

1754
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:34,880
Speaker 1: in a lot of other Western countries after that, not

1755
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:37,479
Speaker 1: exclusively the West, but I think we're talking about our

1756
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:40,960
Speaker 1: our our people here, um immediately went and fucked around

1757
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:44,440
Speaker 1: and carried out acts of aggression all over the world. Um,

1758
01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:47,160
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean the basic lesson is bad. The

1759
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:50,400
Speaker 1: lesson is don't let pete. We should not have been

1760
01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:54,439
Speaker 1: allowed to do that, um, but we shouldn't like that

1761
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:56,880
Speaker 1: should not be a thing that the world accepts, Like

1762
01:43:56,960 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 1: the you can't just sit back and be like, oh,

1763
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 1: all that countries gonna go do a genocide now, but

1764
01:44:03,360 --> 01:44:06,320
Speaker 1: it's far away, so there's nothing to be done other

1765
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:08,760
Speaker 1: than continue to buy the oil of the people doing

1766
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:13,440
Speaker 1: the genocide and thereby fund the genocide. Right like it's

1767
01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:16,880
Speaker 1: it's fucking unconscionable, man like, and even if you want

1768
01:44:16,920 --> 01:44:18,559
Speaker 1: to look at this as like the West also fund

1769
01:44:18,600 --> 01:44:20,920
Speaker 1: around during the Couldar, which like, yeah, you know what,

1770
01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:24,800
Speaker 1: everybody did, you know, stop them? They didn't funk around

1771
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:27,040
Speaker 1: so much in Southeast Asia after the US got punched

1772
01:44:27,040 --> 01:44:30,280
Speaker 1: in the fucking face in Vietnam, did that? That's right? Yeah,

1773
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:33,320
Speaker 1: well it was a lot less. The shouldn't be this

1774
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:36,720
Speaker 1: fucking complicated. I don't I don't care what political ideology

1775
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:40,440
Speaker 1: you subscribe to, Like it's self defense, like it's collective

1776
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:44,240
Speaker 1: mutual self defense. When we need help, you give us

1777
01:44:44,240 --> 01:44:48,320
Speaker 1: fucking help. Like, yeah, it shouldn't be that fucking hard.

1778
01:44:48,800 --> 01:44:51,400
Speaker 1: I mean to be fair for for some people will

1779
01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:56,160
Speaker 1: never truly matter because they don't see countries like Armenia

1780
01:44:56,320 --> 01:44:59,200
Speaker 1: or countries like Azerbaijan is having agency to do their

1781
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:02,760
Speaker 1: own things and thrown things. Um. And if that is you,

1782
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:06,200
Speaker 1: I hope to see your house on scene end one day. Um.

1783
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:09,439
Speaker 1: But like you know that does there should be like

1784
01:45:09,479 --> 01:45:12,600
Speaker 1: that sounds like, um, like an old Russian curse, like me,

1785
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:16,679
Speaker 1: your house beyond the sea, and I believe it's from yeah, yeah,

1786
01:45:16,920 --> 01:45:19,360
Speaker 1: but I can imagine yes, some little old ladies saying

1787
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:22,639
Speaker 1: that to you. We we have the right to freedom

1788
01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:26,320
Speaker 1: as much as anyone else. And um, not only that

1789
01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:29,559
Speaker 1: we've achieved it. Like Armenia is a is a moderately

1790
01:45:29,640 --> 01:45:32,360
Speaker 1: progressive place. I mean, we're still working on some things.

1791
01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:35,479
Speaker 1: We have the freest democracy in the region. Um, we

1792
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:38,400
Speaker 1: have great standard of living for most people. Um, and

1793
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:41,639
Speaker 1: it was only getting better. This is a place has

1794
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:45,639
Speaker 1: freer and fairer elections, and virtually anyone else over here,

1795
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:49,719
Speaker 1: to include Russia, to include fucking Ukraine, to include Turkey,

1796
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:54,080
Speaker 1: to include all these places that people insists are worth defending.

1797
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:57,760
Speaker 1: I'm just curious why we're not like, why are like

1798
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:00,519
Speaker 1: why are Armenians less than what did we for fucking

1799
01:46:00,560 --> 01:46:05,600
Speaker 1: do to deserve this? It's it's incredibly depressing. Um. And

1800
01:46:05,760 --> 01:46:08,400
Speaker 1: maybe we're not the right shade of white. I don't.

1801
01:46:08,439 --> 01:46:12,760
Speaker 1: I don't fucking know anymore man Like it's it's it's

1802
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:17,599
Speaker 1: really weird to me. UM. Even like internationally geopolitically, you know,

1803
01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:21,799
Speaker 1: the Secretary of State Blincoln urged both sides of de escalate.

1804
01:46:21,960 --> 01:46:25,760
Speaker 1: Suck my fucking dick. What are we de escalating? They're

1805
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:31,439
Speaker 1: invading us? I would like to ask al Qaeda, would

1806
01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:33,640
Speaker 1: really like to ask the city of New York to

1807
01:46:33,760 --> 01:46:37,519
Speaker 1: de escalate when planes flew into the World Trade Center, like,

1808
01:46:38,200 --> 01:46:39,680
Speaker 1: get the funk out of here, Like, how do you

1809
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:46,720
Speaker 1: de escalate this? They're bombing cities like it's it's maddening, um,

1810
01:46:46,760 --> 01:46:48,759
Speaker 1: And it's not gonna end. It's not gonna end until

1811
01:46:48,760 --> 01:46:52,479
Speaker 1: someone fucking ends it. We can't. We We just had

1812
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:55,680
Speaker 1: a generationally destroying war two years ago that we have

1813
01:46:55,720 --> 01:46:59,400
Speaker 1: not recovered from. We have an entire society that's dealing

1814
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:04,000
Speaker 1: with various forms of PTSD. UM. We don't have the

1815
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:06,679
Speaker 1: the institutions to take care of all of the victims

1816
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:09,400
Speaker 1: from two years ago. UM. We didn't get any help

1817
01:47:09,400 --> 01:47:11,800
Speaker 1: that either, and we're not gonna get any help now.

1818
01:47:13,479 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 1: I uh yeah, you know, I think again, there's this,

1819
01:47:20,560 --> 01:47:24,920
Speaker 1: there's this tendency towards isolationism and the left brought on

1820
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:28,960
Speaker 1: by the Iraq War. But none of this, if nothing

1821
01:47:29,080 --> 01:47:31,680
Speaker 1: is done, if there's no international response to this, and

1822
01:47:31,680 --> 01:47:35,280
Speaker 1: if these areas aren't aren't stopped by you know, in

1823
01:47:35,640 --> 01:47:42,799
Speaker 1: auto cathonic resistance, um, then it won't stop with Armenia,

1824
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:45,920
Speaker 1: because violence of this sort never does. There's a there's

1825
01:47:45,960 --> 01:47:48,400
Speaker 1: a book I'm interested in your thoughts on it, actually, Joe,

1826
01:47:48,439 --> 01:47:50,760
Speaker 1: but I found it quite eliminating a number of years ago,

1827
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:53,639
Speaker 1: An Inconvenient Genocide by Adam hoss Child, which is about

1828
01:47:53,720 --> 01:47:57,479
Speaker 1: the Armenian genocide and its influence on Hitler, making the

1829
01:47:57,520 --> 01:48:02,639
Speaker 1: point that even though hit there never was anywhere close

1830
01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:05,439
Speaker 1: to Armenia, neither were any fucking German troops for that matter,

1831
01:48:05,479 --> 01:48:11,240
Speaker 1: particularly close Imperial German troops were, Oh well, yeah, we're

1832
01:48:11,280 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 1: we're very much in charge of a lot of different

1833
01:48:13,000 --> 01:48:17,400
Speaker 1: death squads. It's it's a it's a weird story. Hitler's

1834
01:48:17,479 --> 01:48:20,080
Speaker 1: Hitler's German. Of course, I apologize. I meant, I meant

1835
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:26,360
Speaker 1: the Yeah. But the point that Hoschild was making was

1836
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:31,040
Speaker 1: that Hitler was not engaged in the Armenian genocide, but

1837
01:48:31,120 --> 01:48:33,880
Speaker 1: he paid attention to it and the fact that the

1838
01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:38,120
Speaker 1: young Turks got away with it, um and and got

1839
01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:40,519
Speaker 1: to take that let take land that, as you pointed out,

1840
01:48:40,560 --> 01:48:43,880
Speaker 1: is currently occupied by some US nuclear war heads. Um

1841
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:47,000
Speaker 1: was was part of what emboldened him to do not

1842
01:48:47,080 --> 01:48:49,479
Speaker 1: just the Holocaust but everything he did in Europe. And

1843
01:48:49,479 --> 01:48:52,320
Speaker 1: there was a line specifically in reference to the Holocaust

1844
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:54,200
Speaker 1: from Hitler, but it was during this table talk that

1845
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:56,880
Speaker 1: was like essentially he was saying, well, of course we'll

1846
01:48:56,920 --> 01:48:59,559
Speaker 1: get away with it. Nobody remembers Armenians anymore. Yeah, it's

1847
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:04,560
Speaker 1: literally on the wall. Yeah. And that's the thing is

1848
01:49:04,600 --> 01:49:09,360
Speaker 1: like it goes back right, like everybody was saying, because

1849
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:12,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand the politics behind our sock are

1850
01:49:12,479 --> 01:49:15,080
Speaker 1: messy for people who are not from this region, and

1851
01:49:15,280 --> 01:49:17,360
Speaker 1: I'm I don't have enough time to go into them.

1852
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:22,640
Speaker 1: The majority of Armenian population that was given to Azerbaijan

1853
01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:27,720
Speaker 1: by the Soviet Union with absolutely no process, and they

1854
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:30,960
Speaker 1: attempted to vote to join Armenia while we were still

1855
01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:33,040
Speaker 1: in the Soviet Union, which is well within the rights

1856
01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:38,160
Speaker 1: according to the Soviet Unions constitution if such rights functionally existed,

1857
01:49:38,200 --> 01:49:41,320
Speaker 1: which they did not. Um, and that's what started the

1858
01:49:41,320 --> 01:49:45,560
Speaker 1: first war. But in every war has been about that

1859
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:49,160
Speaker 1: ever since, effectively, at least politically on its surface, because

1860
01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:53,320
Speaker 1: internationally is recognized as part of Azerbaijan, because they go

1861
01:49:53,400 --> 01:49:56,439
Speaker 1: off old Soviet maps for fucking reasons. I don't know.

1862
01:49:57,240 --> 01:50:01,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we can talk about Sikes Picaul, yeah exactly. Um,

1863
01:50:01,680 --> 01:50:04,760
Speaker 1: But like you know, in people were saying that, like, oh,

1864
01:50:04,840 --> 01:50:08,920
Speaker 1: if this will all end if Armenia simply gives up

1865
01:50:09,120 --> 01:50:12,519
Speaker 1: art Stock, which we don't claim art so nobody, I mean,

1866
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:15,840
Speaker 1: some some people do. The government does not. Um, we

1867
01:50:16,040 --> 01:50:19,160
Speaker 1: don't recognize it as an independent country either, which they

1868
01:50:19,160 --> 01:50:23,920
Speaker 1: themselves have declared themselves. It's it's messy, I understand, but um,

1869
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:26,560
Speaker 1: it's it's not within the Republic of Armenia to negotiate

1870
01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:29,120
Speaker 1: the non existence of the Republic of Artsch that is

1871
01:50:29,240 --> 01:50:32,160
Speaker 1: their right to self determination. That is politically what the

1872
01:50:32,160 --> 01:50:38,000
Speaker 1: government believes. Now they were saying, well, now that these

1873
01:50:38,080 --> 01:50:40,120
Speaker 1: areas have been taken over by age by John, we

1874
01:50:40,160 --> 01:50:42,559
Speaker 1: can finally move towards peace. There's fucking peace talks a

1875
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:48,440
Speaker 1: week ago that the Prime Minister pashaon Yan met with Aliev.

1876
01:50:48,520 --> 01:50:51,960
Speaker 1: I believe in Belgium. I'm not entirely sure they literally

1877
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:53,760
Speaker 1: met a week ago. Maybe it's two weeks ago, like

1878
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:56,920
Speaker 1: it was very recent. But the thing is every time

1879
01:50:57,600 --> 01:51:01,120
Speaker 1: this peace process starts again, this happens because it's not

1880
01:51:01,240 --> 01:51:04,439
Speaker 1: about Arsa, it's not about Nagano Karaba, it's not about

1881
01:51:04,439 --> 01:51:06,880
Speaker 1: any of these. It's it's about our right, our fundamental

1882
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:09,960
Speaker 1: right to exist. They do not believe in it, like

1883
01:51:10,080 --> 01:51:14,320
Speaker 1: it's not just like it wasn't about um Jews being

1884
01:51:14,360 --> 01:51:17,559
Speaker 1: involved in business. It wasn't about Jews marrying Germans. It

1885
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:21,800
Speaker 1: was about their fundamental right to exist. Like it's it's

1886
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:24,240
Speaker 1: all it is. It's the same can be said for Palestinians.

1887
01:51:24,320 --> 01:51:28,000
Speaker 1: This is this isn't about Palestinian I mean, thinking of

1888
01:51:28,040 --> 01:51:31,640
Speaker 1: which fucking Israelis are just just placing Armenians in Palestine

1889
01:51:31,680 --> 01:51:34,920
Speaker 1: as well. Like it's it's not about it's not about

1890
01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:38,400
Speaker 1: these these small little nibbles that they're taking. It's not

1891
01:51:38,479 --> 01:51:42,200
Speaker 1: about the freedom of movement. It's not about your right

1892
01:51:42,280 --> 01:51:44,840
Speaker 1: to date. Someone which came up recently is they made

1893
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:47,879
Speaker 1: some Israelila against that you have to declare your romantic

1894
01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:50,559
Speaker 1: intentions before you go into the West Bank or whatever. Like,

1895
01:51:50,800 --> 01:51:53,840
Speaker 1: it's not about those things. Those are maybe that'll make

1896
01:51:55,320 --> 01:51:57,719
Speaker 1: maybe that'll make it easier to get the the American

1897
01:51:57,800 --> 01:52:00,920
Speaker 1: leftists on this one. Right, No, no guy, Israel is

1898
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:05,800
Speaker 1: the bad the bad guys here we can genocide. Yet

1899
01:52:06,800 --> 01:52:10,760
Speaker 1: that's not entirely. He probably would. But the thing is

1900
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:13,040
Speaker 1: that it's not about these small nibbles. It's not about

1901
01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:14,960
Speaker 1: your right to do X or you're right to do why.

1902
01:52:15,040 --> 01:52:17,720
Speaker 1: It's not about art socks, right, the freedom, it's it's

1903
01:52:17,840 --> 01:52:22,000
Speaker 1: it's they don't believe you should exist, and they will

1904
01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:24,960
Speaker 1: take and take and take and take until you're fucking

1905
01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:28,000
Speaker 1: powerless and they can wipe you out. That is their goal.

1906
01:52:28,080 --> 01:52:30,599
Speaker 1: I mean, you can see that in Palestine, you can

1907
01:52:30,600 --> 01:52:33,920
Speaker 1: see that, in Arsa, you can see that increasingly in Armenia.

1908
01:52:33,960 --> 01:52:36,679
Speaker 1: You can see That's what Russia's goal was in Ukraine,

1909
01:52:36,760 --> 01:52:41,439
Speaker 1: it was Russia's goal in Georgia. It's how imperialism fucking works.

1910
01:52:41,520 --> 01:52:44,240
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to have an American flag or British

1911
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:46,360
Speaker 1: flag over it for that to be what it's called.

1912
01:52:46,680 --> 01:52:50,639
Speaker 1: It's genocidal imperialism. And like if if you're too dumb

1913
01:52:50,840 --> 01:52:52,840
Speaker 1: to fucking see that, I don't know what else to

1914
01:52:52,880 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 1: tell you, Like, I don't know how else do you

1915
01:52:56,280 --> 01:52:59,559
Speaker 1: need me to draw and fucking crayon? Like yeah, And

1916
01:52:59,720 --> 01:53:02,680
Speaker 1: I I think we're both getting angry here, primarily at

1917
01:53:02,920 --> 01:53:05,880
Speaker 1: groups of people who I don't believe are the primary

1918
01:53:06,160 --> 01:53:09,880
Speaker 1: listeners that will have on this, not necessarily but but

1919
01:53:09,880 --> 01:53:12,400
Speaker 1: but I get it, Like no, it's it's this constant

1920
01:53:12,439 --> 01:53:15,880
Speaker 1: fucking thing you have whenever there's a war anywhere, And

1921
01:53:15,960 --> 01:53:17,920
Speaker 1: you are like, well, what is the solution, Well, the

1922
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:22,320
Speaker 1: people who are the victims need to have access to weapons? Um. Yeah.

1923
01:53:22,400 --> 01:53:25,160
Speaker 1: And if you're and if you're saying, which I agree with,

1924
01:53:25,560 --> 01:53:28,880
Speaker 1: sending in US or whatever troops to ex country usually

1925
01:53:28,920 --> 01:53:30,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't work out, then what are what is the

1926
01:53:30,920 --> 01:53:34,920
Speaker 1: option give them fucking weapons? Yeah? And honestly, like what

1927
01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:38,160
Speaker 1: would make the situation worse if we had American soldiers here?

1928
01:53:39,240 --> 01:53:41,639
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I mean I just don't I just don't

1929
01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:48,000
Speaker 1: think that's a thing that logistically the US military can do. Well. Um,

1930
01:53:48,280 --> 01:53:52,599
Speaker 1: but like yeah, like there's some situations where, yes, military

1931
01:53:52,640 --> 01:53:57,080
Speaker 1: assistance could make a situation worse. Bad things will happen,

1932
01:53:57,240 --> 01:54:00,080
Speaker 1: You cannot deploy large amounts of weapons or soldiers to

1933
01:54:00,120 --> 01:54:04,719
Speaker 1: a specific area without there being some kind of negative effects. However,

1934
01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:08,960
Speaker 1: you have to realistically weigh the good and the bad. Yeah,

1935
01:54:09,280 --> 01:54:13,960
Speaker 1: the world military the Allies bombed Germany flat, but they

1936
01:54:13,960 --> 01:54:18,880
Speaker 1: stopped the fucking holocaust. Yeah, we blew up a fair

1937
01:54:18,920 --> 01:54:22,680
Speaker 1: amount of people in the nineties, we stopped the genocide,

1938
01:54:23,040 --> 01:54:25,680
Speaker 1: like we blew up the ship out of Isis, And

1939
01:54:25,680 --> 01:54:29,559
Speaker 1: there was also some civilian casualties, which fucking sucked quite

1940
01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:32,760
Speaker 1: a few. You stop the Azite genocide with the assistance

1941
01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:35,440
Speaker 1: of the PKK and and the YPG and the y PJ, Like,

1942
01:54:36,600 --> 01:54:42,440
Speaker 1: you cannot unleash military power without the acceptance that innocent

1943
01:54:42,480 --> 01:54:45,480
Speaker 1: people are going to die. The way that you weigh

1944
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:48,280
Speaker 1: that is more fucking people are going to die if

1945
01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:51,600
Speaker 1: you don't. That's that's I think the key of it,

1946
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:53,840
Speaker 1: and probably the point to close on is that it's

1947
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:57,640
Speaker 1: not a decision do we do we bring violence to

1948
01:54:57,680 --> 01:55:02,720
Speaker 1: this situation or not the situation. The question is how

1949
01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:05,880
Speaker 1: how lopsided will the violence be. Will the violence be

1950
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:12,240
Speaker 1: one state armed by its allies massacreing an under you know,

1951
01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:16,640
Speaker 1: equipped military, and then civilians until there's no one left

1952
01:55:16,640 --> 01:55:20,560
Speaker 1: of the people who inhabited that area. Um or will

1953
01:55:20,560 --> 01:55:23,160
Speaker 1: those people have the equipment to defend themselves? Like that?

1954
01:55:23,320 --> 01:55:26,280
Speaker 1: That's the question. There's no, there's no the situation. The

1955
01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:28,680
Speaker 1: only way for the situation to not be violent is

1956
01:55:28,720 --> 01:55:32,120
Speaker 1: for Zerbaijan to not do what they're doing right now.

1957
01:55:32,840 --> 01:55:36,120
Speaker 1: Um And hey, if if some sort of fucking diplomatic

1958
01:55:36,160 --> 01:55:39,680
Speaker 1: pressure works, I will I will be unbelievably psyched to

1959
01:55:39,760 --> 01:55:42,280
Speaker 1: eat both of our words in this if the fucking

1960
01:55:43,160 --> 01:55:45,560
Speaker 1: blinken manages to I don't. I don't. Yeah, I have

1961
01:55:45,600 --> 01:55:49,360
Speaker 1: no idea, like how how you actually have an impact here?

1962
01:55:49,400 --> 01:55:52,400
Speaker 1: But that would be lovely. I just don't think it's likely. Yeah,

1963
01:55:52,440 --> 01:55:54,640
Speaker 1: there's I mean, don't be wrong. There's a time for

1964
01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:57,800
Speaker 1: diplomacy in that time ends when troops attempt across the

1965
01:55:57,800 --> 01:56:00,440
Speaker 1: border or they start cluster bombing our cities. Like there's

1966
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:03,240
Speaker 1: there's a time for diplomacy and not that you can

1967
01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:06,400
Speaker 1: do two things at once. And and to be completely clear,

1968
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:08,520
Speaker 1: I'm not calling for like the hundred and first to

1969
01:56:08,600 --> 01:56:11,280
Speaker 1: fucking land in Yovan or whatever. Like, I don't want

1970
01:56:11,400 --> 01:56:13,800
Speaker 1: the American military to come here. We'll take care of ourselves,

1971
01:56:13,840 --> 01:56:17,280
Speaker 1: but we need the tools to do so. And the

1972
01:56:17,320 --> 01:56:21,240
Speaker 1: fact remains is like you can be vehemently against war.

1973
01:56:21,440 --> 01:56:23,960
Speaker 1: I know I am. I fought in them. They fucking suck.

1974
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:26,800
Speaker 1: I do not want war to happen to anybody, But

1975
01:56:27,400 --> 01:56:31,520
Speaker 1: when they when it comes, talking is over, or at

1976
01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:34,400
Speaker 1: least it it hits the back burner. Like there's negotiations

1977
01:56:34,440 --> 01:56:37,280
Speaker 1: going on in Ukraine and Russia that we don't hear about,

1978
01:56:37,640 --> 01:56:39,840
Speaker 1: but at the same time, Ukraine knows they have to

1979
01:56:39,880 --> 01:56:44,400
Speaker 1: continue doing violence in the meantime, Like you can't. You

1980
01:56:44,440 --> 01:56:46,680
Speaker 1: can't just like whoa, guys, let's just hit the brakes

1981
01:56:46,680 --> 01:56:49,560
Speaker 1: and let's like have a fucking peace conference in Belgium

1982
01:56:49,640 --> 01:56:53,720
Speaker 1: or whatever. Like Sun is being bombed, Gorgious is being bought,

1983
01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:56,240
Speaker 1: like our Meenians are dying, Like there's no words that

1984
01:56:56,280 --> 01:57:00,120
Speaker 1: will fix that, but we'll fix it as fucking artillery system,

1985
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:04,040
Speaker 1: high mars, GPS, guided weapons, fucking body armor. We don't

1986
01:57:04,040 --> 01:57:06,600
Speaker 1: even have first aid kits, Like there's there's there's things

1987
01:57:06,640 --> 01:57:11,760
Speaker 1: that we need that can happen in addition to political pressure,

1988
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:13,880
Speaker 1: because political pressure is great if we ever have it,

1989
01:57:14,320 --> 01:57:16,600
Speaker 1: but there needs to be something in the meantime, Like

1990
01:57:17,440 --> 01:57:22,000
Speaker 1: the Director of Doctors without borders. One time said, um,

1991
01:57:22,280 --> 01:57:24,800
Speaker 1: something that was incredibly controversial when he said, because he's

1992
01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:27,200
Speaker 1: a doctor and he runs you know, a charity. He said,

1993
01:57:28,040 --> 01:57:31,200
Speaker 1: you can't stop a genocide with doctors. And he meant

1994
01:57:31,200 --> 01:57:33,920
Speaker 1: that you need to give people fucking weapons because you

1995
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:36,120
Speaker 1: know there's like like we already said, and then I'll

1996
01:57:36,120 --> 01:57:40,000
Speaker 1: promise they'll stop talking. Um, there's two ways that this ends.

1997
01:57:41,200 --> 01:57:43,720
Speaker 1: We defend ourselves and we survive, or you sit by

1998
01:57:43,720 --> 01:57:46,680
Speaker 1: and you do nothing, and uh, there's thousands of more

1999
01:57:46,720 --> 01:57:49,560
Speaker 1: graves full of Armenians by the end of this. That's it.

2000
01:57:49,840 --> 01:57:52,000
Speaker 1: I mean, once upon a time the world said never again,

2001
01:57:52,120 --> 01:57:54,400
Speaker 1: and that ship has had a big fucking asterix next

2002
01:57:54,400 --> 01:57:56,960
Speaker 1: to it ever since. And people need to prove themselves.

2003
01:57:57,040 --> 01:58:00,320
Speaker 1: You need to fucking prove the words actually mean things.

2004
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:02,760
Speaker 1: If you want to defend democracies and ship like you

2005
01:58:02,760 --> 01:58:05,120
Speaker 1: do in Ukraine. I have a democracy for you to

2006
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:09,720
Speaker 1: defend and we need weapons. Yeah. I think that's as

2007
01:58:09,720 --> 01:58:11,720
Speaker 1: good a note as I need to end on joke

2008
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:16,720
Speaker 1: A sabian Um Host of Lions led by Donkeys, author

2009
01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:19,600
Speaker 1: of The Hooligans of Kandahar. You've got other bunch of

2010
01:58:19,600 --> 01:58:22,280
Speaker 1: other books that have come out now. Yeah, I have

2011
01:58:22,320 --> 01:58:25,080
Speaker 1: the Victory of Death series out if you enjoy military

2012
01:58:25,080 --> 01:58:27,600
Speaker 1: sci fi. Uh, and I have another one coming out

2013
01:58:27,680 --> 01:58:32,120
Speaker 1: in October called The Frontier Corps. You can preorder it now.

2014
01:58:32,320 --> 01:58:36,040
Speaker 1: Um if you look on my Twitter, um, you can

2015
01:58:36,280 --> 01:58:38,680
Speaker 1: find a link to preorder it. It's free if you

2016
01:58:38,760 --> 01:58:43,120
Speaker 1: have um Kindle unlimited, so you know, if for the book.

2017
01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:48,120
Speaker 1: Um so yeah. Also if you don't feel like giving

2018
01:58:48,160 --> 01:58:50,400
Speaker 1: me money, that's that's great to donate to the Armenian

2019
01:58:50,400 --> 01:58:56,080
Speaker 1: and Red Cross. They need it more than I do. Yeah. Um,

2020
01:58:56,120 --> 01:59:17,080
Speaker 1: all right, everybody, that's the episode. Um, alright, hey, welcome

2021
01:59:17,120 --> 01:59:20,800
Speaker 1: to it could happen here podcast. But things falling apart

2022
01:59:20,840 --> 01:59:25,400
Speaker 1: and putting them back together. And this is another Andrew episode.

2023
01:59:25,680 --> 01:59:29,880
Speaker 1: So hello Ulu, yes, greetings, we have we have we

2024
01:59:29,920 --> 01:59:34,480
Speaker 1: have Chris, we have James, we have myself, and we

2025
01:59:34,600 --> 01:59:38,120
Speaker 1: have Andrew obviously, who I'm going to hand the reins

2026
01:59:38,160 --> 01:59:43,880
Speaker 1: off to. Awesome, So hello again to another episode of

2027
01:59:45,480 --> 01:59:52,920
Speaker 1: me talking about different stuff. Um and quite fittingly, considering

2028
01:59:53,000 --> 01:59:58,520
Speaker 1: to these the d that Queen Elizabeth has passed into

2029
01:59:59,280 --> 02:00:02,160
Speaker 1: the pits of hell. Um, we are we are deeply

2030
02:00:02,280 --> 02:00:04,800
Speaker 1: as as a citizen under the Commonwealth, we are deeply

2031
02:00:04,840 --> 02:00:11,800
Speaker 1: saddened by the lost colleagues have reached out to me

2032
02:00:11,880 --> 02:00:18,720
Speaker 1: today and I am okay, guys, is so funny. Today

2033
02:00:18,760 --> 02:00:23,280
Speaker 1: we will be discussing a current member of the Commonwealth

2034
02:00:24,160 --> 02:00:30,520
Speaker 1: um one of quite a few twin island nations in

2035
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:36,000
Speaker 1: the Caribbean, that being Antigua and Barbuda, and more specifically Barbuda.

2036
02:00:36,880 --> 02:00:41,080
Speaker 1: Barbuda is an example of African resilience. It's an example

2037
02:00:41,120 --> 02:00:44,880
Speaker 1: of a society in touch with this environment. It's an

2038
02:00:44,920 --> 02:00:49,040
Speaker 1: example of the capability of the commons as an institution,

2039
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:56,120
Speaker 1: and it's an example of sticking it to the crown.

2040
02:00:56,800 --> 02:01:00,640
Speaker 1: To be quite honest as you, all right, I mean,

2041
02:01:00,920 --> 02:01:05,640
Speaker 1: I'm excited to learn more about that. How how yes, So,

2042
02:01:05,680 --> 02:01:08,800
Speaker 1: I don't think many people know about Bobuda and its history.

2043
02:01:08,920 --> 02:01:10,960
Speaker 1: I doubt most people could place it on a map,

2044
02:01:11,960 --> 02:01:22,520
Speaker 1: but it's it. It represents quite the interesting story. So

2045
02:01:22,640 --> 02:01:26,880
Speaker 1: to begin, I should probably explain what what is a Bobuda.

2046
02:01:27,920 --> 02:01:30,880
Speaker 1: Barbuda is an island located in the Eastern Caribbean, forming

2047
02:01:30,920 --> 02:01:33,680
Speaker 1: part of the sovereign state of Antigua and Barbuda. It's

2048
02:01:33,760 --> 02:01:36,280
Speaker 1: located north of the island of Antigua and it's part

2049
02:01:36,280 --> 02:01:39,560
Speaker 1: of the Leeward Islands for the West Indies. It comprises

2050
02:01:39,560 --> 02:01:44,720
Speaker 1: about sixty two square miles, so it is about sixty

2051
02:01:44,720 --> 02:01:48,960
Speaker 1: two square miles which is a hundred and sixty kilometers

2052
02:01:49,120 --> 02:01:53,240
Speaker 1: and it's one of the flattest islands in the Caribbean.

2053
02:01:53,600 --> 02:01:56,320
Speaker 1: It's soils are very shallow and in foods. Islands a

2054
02:01:56,480 --> 02:02:03,440
Speaker 1: very arid island with very little rainfall and very frequent routs.

2055
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:07,560
Speaker 1: Its scrub willderness is roamed by day and pigs and

2056
02:02:09,000 --> 02:02:12,720
Speaker 1: descendants of the animals that early European traders and settlers

2057
02:02:12,720 --> 02:02:16,240
Speaker 1: would have imported. It also has a pre settlement ever

2058
02:02:16,320 --> 02:02:21,320
Speaker 1: green woodland that consists of white cedar, turpentine and white wood,

2059
02:02:21,640 --> 02:02:26,480
Speaker 1: alongside columnar cactus and thorny shrubs and grassy glades and

2060
02:02:27,400 --> 02:02:32,000
Speaker 1: soils that have been another species that have grown up

2061
02:02:32,000 --> 02:02:36,120
Speaker 1: in soils that have been degraded by the clearance of

2062
02:02:37,440 --> 02:02:43,680
Speaker 1: charcoal burning and grazing and just general human activity. Most

2063
02:02:43,720 --> 02:02:47,680
Speaker 1: bob Udan's i would say engage in shifting cultivation, but

2064
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:51,560
Speaker 1: none of them are full time farmers. The countryside is

2065
02:02:52,200 --> 02:02:56,040
Speaker 1: mostly uninhabited because the law required that all barb Udans

2066
02:02:56,080 --> 02:02:58,920
Speaker 1: lived in or near the island's one village which is

2067
02:02:58,960 --> 02:03:05,200
Speaker 1: Quadrington and there, according to eleven census, there were roughly

2068
02:03:06,880 --> 02:03:09,840
Speaker 1: four people on the island. Of course, that has changed

2069
02:03:09,880 --> 02:03:14,960
Speaker 1: in recent times, and we'll get into that shortly. Barbuda

2070
02:03:15,240 --> 02:03:20,680
Speaker 1: is yet another example of a distinctive community emerging out

2071
02:03:20,720 --> 02:03:26,400
Speaker 1: of the colonial era that swept through the Caribbean. I've

2072
02:03:26,560 --> 02:03:29,920
Speaker 1: mentioned the Maroons before, the different marine communities that have

2073
02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:35,960
Speaker 1: existed on the different Caribbean islands and in Guyana and Surnam.

2074
02:03:36,040 --> 02:03:42,280
Speaker 1: But I think Bobuda and their story represents really the

2075
02:03:42,320 --> 02:03:49,360
Speaker 1: diversity of how colonialism manifested um in the region. Barbula's

2076
02:03:49,440 --> 02:03:53,840
Speaker 1: people have a sense of identity and attachment to locality

2077
02:03:54,960 --> 02:04:03,920
Speaker 1: that is I think very distinctive and very unique among

2078
02:04:04,360 --> 02:04:06,320
Speaker 1: people of the Caribbean. Not to say that the rest

2079
02:04:06,320 --> 02:04:09,720
Speaker 1: of us don't have a sense of identity or attachment locality,

2080
02:04:10,000 --> 02:04:17,120
Speaker 1: but their story and the tradition reaches back over two

2081
02:04:17,160 --> 02:04:27,520
Speaker 1: centuries of near independence and quite significant levels of autonomy,

2082
02:04:27,600 --> 02:04:31,800
Speaker 1: which was unheard of in most of the Caribbean due

2083
02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:36,480
Speaker 1: to the legacy of slavery. Representing a very close knit

2084
02:04:36,520 --> 02:04:40,040
Speaker 1: and traditional community probably runs approach to using and student

2085
02:04:40,080 --> 02:04:45,520
Speaker 1: the resources reflects that long legacy of isolation, of ecological

2086
02:04:45,560 --> 02:04:49,040
Speaker 1: constraint being on such a small island, of familial closeness,

2087
02:04:49,080 --> 02:04:53,560
Speaker 1: having such a small population, and of social interdependence. Considering

2088
02:04:53,640 --> 02:04:57,400
Speaker 1: the series of administrators that they had dealt with, and

2089
02:04:57,480 --> 02:05:01,800
Speaker 1: how each of those administrators neglect did or ignored them.

2090
02:05:01,960 --> 02:05:04,720
Speaker 1: Bob Dans, both whom and abroad, are still very much

2091
02:05:04,720 --> 02:05:09,800
Speaker 1: attached to their island because they have long held it

2092
02:05:09,880 --> 02:05:15,440
Speaker 1: in common. So we'll be diving into a brief history

2093
02:05:15,680 --> 02:05:21,360
Speaker 1: of exactly how they reached this point, what institutions they've

2094
02:05:21,360 --> 02:05:26,080
Speaker 1: developed for common ownership and community land use, and how

2095
02:05:26,160 --> 02:05:31,520
Speaker 1: emigration has played a role in that, and unfortunately, how

2096
02:05:32,360 --> 02:05:37,760
Speaker 1: the combination of Hurricane Irma and the doctrine and the

2097
02:05:37,800 --> 02:05:44,480
Speaker 1: shock doctrine have contributed to their current situation. So for

2098
02:05:44,560 --> 02:05:47,919
Speaker 1: more than two hundred years, from the late seventeenth century,

2099
02:05:48,320 --> 02:05:53,280
Speaker 1: Barbuda was leased by the crown to one family, the Cardringtons,

2100
02:05:54,240 --> 02:05:58,000
Speaker 1: hence the name of the village being Quadringtons. The originally

2101
02:05:58,080 --> 02:06:00,360
Speaker 1: c was a guy named Christopher Cauldring and he was

2102
02:06:00,400 --> 02:06:06,320
Speaker 1: the governor of the Leeward Islands and his ears lived

2103
02:06:06,320 --> 02:06:10,200
Speaker 1: in England, so they pretty much neglected it. After year died,

2104
02:06:12,280 --> 02:06:18,879
Speaker 1: Barbuda would have supplemented the lucrative sugar. States that Cardrickton

2105
02:06:19,000 --> 02:06:23,960
Speaker 1: had an antigua with timber and ground provisions and fish

2106
02:06:24,040 --> 02:06:30,400
Speaker 1: and livestock and draft animals. Barbuda, being surrounded by coral reefs,

2107
02:06:30,440 --> 02:06:33,040
Speaker 1: often had ships wrecked near the island, and so they

2108
02:06:33,080 --> 02:06:37,040
Speaker 1: also salvage resources from lewder ships and so as late

2109
02:06:37,080 --> 02:06:40,360
Speaker 1: as in the eighteen fifties, the Carrington's were getting four

2110
02:06:40,480 --> 02:06:43,560
Speaker 1: thousand pounds a year from Barbuda and stock, and three

2111
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:47,040
Speaker 1: hundred pounds a year from salvage in operations on the island.

2112
02:06:48,040 --> 02:06:52,120
Speaker 1: That's just over sixty three thousand pounds today per year.

2113
02:06:52,960 --> 02:06:55,960
Speaker 1: And it just demonstrats, of course, and even though they

2114
02:06:56,000 --> 02:07:03,280
Speaker 1: were more independent than most other slave people, because the

2115
02:07:03,320 --> 02:07:08,120
Speaker 1: island wasn't as profitable, they were still being exploited. Initially,

2116
02:07:09,200 --> 02:07:11,920
Speaker 1: the island was only worked by a few indentured whites,

2117
02:07:12,000 --> 02:07:16,000
Speaker 1: but then when enslaved people were brought in from Africa,

2118
02:07:16,200 --> 02:07:20,400
Speaker 1: the enslave population began to rise, and they began to

2119
02:07:20,480 --> 02:07:23,920
Speaker 1: establish that sort of culture and community that received to

2120
02:07:23,960 --> 02:07:28,280
Speaker 1: this day. Because they were neglected because the island was

2121
02:07:28,960 --> 02:07:32,600
Speaker 1: very little inhabited, they housed and they fed themselves through

2122
02:07:32,680 --> 02:07:37,320
Speaker 1: their own efforts, and we're basically spared of the rigors

2123
02:07:37,600 --> 02:07:43,320
Speaker 1: of the plantation regiment because of how unprofitable the island

2124
02:07:43,440 --> 02:07:48,120
Speaker 1: was because it's soils were so sandy and arid and unfertile.

2125
02:07:50,120 --> 02:07:55,280
Speaker 1: So between eighteen hundred and eighty two, being free in

2126
02:07:55,720 --> 02:07:59,320
Speaker 1: many respects, probably this population was able to rise from

2127
02:07:59,360 --> 02:08:02,600
Speaker 1: three dred to five hundred, and they are able to

2128
02:08:02,920 --> 02:08:08,600
Speaker 1: a cohesive creole community whose solidarity was able to thwart

2129
02:08:08,640 --> 02:08:14,360
Speaker 1: the efforts of local overseers and absentee proprietors to try

2130
02:08:14,400 --> 02:08:17,960
Speaker 1: to get them to labor on anti unites states or

2131
02:08:18,080 --> 02:08:21,840
Speaker 1: to get them to be more quote and quote productive

2132
02:08:22,600 --> 02:08:29,120
Speaker 1: um for their overseers. Because they had such a several

2133
02:08:29,240 --> 02:08:33,240
Speaker 1: hundred strong community on that island that had established itself

2134
02:08:33,600 --> 02:08:37,560
Speaker 1: for generations, no overseers, no manager, could just pull up

2135
02:08:37,560 --> 02:08:40,240
Speaker 1: in there and just say try and cooce them into

2136
02:08:40,280 --> 02:08:44,000
Speaker 1: doing what he wanted them to do. This is installed

2137
02:08:44,040 --> 02:08:45,760
Speaker 1: contrast to a lot of the other Criban islands, where

2138
02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:48,960
Speaker 1: managers and overseers had a lot more presence and a

2139
02:08:48,960 --> 02:08:52,480
Speaker 1: lot more power to destroy families, to split up communities,

2140
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:58,120
Speaker 1: to ferment divisions. Because the island just they basically neglected

2141
02:08:58,120 --> 02:09:01,520
Speaker 1: it and in that neglect, to advantage of that neglect,

2142
02:09:01,640 --> 02:09:04,680
Speaker 1: of the material conditions that created that neglect, to strengthen

2143
02:09:04,720 --> 02:09:09,600
Speaker 1: their community bonds and to strengthen their autonomy. As emancipation

2144
02:09:10,480 --> 02:09:17,120
Speaker 1: came around, car Drinton himself even was like, Wow, good

2145
02:09:17,120 --> 02:09:21,480
Speaker 1: for them pretty much because almost all of them, who were,

2146
02:09:21,520 --> 02:09:26,120
Speaker 1: like to quote him directly, one united family, so attached

2147
02:09:26,200 --> 02:09:29,240
Speaker 1: to bob Udell that force alone or extreme drought can

2148
02:09:29,280 --> 02:09:32,680
Speaker 1: alone take them from that island. In other words, as

2149
02:09:32,720 --> 02:09:37,280
Speaker 1: an exploit as a displaced indigenous African people, they reforged

2150
02:09:37,280 --> 02:09:40,400
Speaker 1: the connection to the new land that they inhabited and

2151
02:09:41,440 --> 02:09:44,920
Speaker 1: rooted themselves in that land. One one particular tradition they

2152
02:09:44,920 --> 02:09:47,600
Speaker 1: have is the burial of ones in Biblical code on

2153
02:09:47,640 --> 02:09:50,280
Speaker 1: the island itself, and so that's been going on for generations.

2154
02:09:50,280 --> 02:09:53,360
Speaker 1: With a new child is born and the Embiblical code

2155
02:09:53,440 --> 02:09:56,919
Speaker 1: is buried on the island. And so even Bobudens move abroad,

2156
02:09:57,000 --> 02:10:00,280
Speaker 1: they still have that strong tie to the island it's self.

2157
02:10:02,200 --> 02:10:06,040
Speaker 1: So after emancipation ruled around in eighteen three four, probably

2158
02:10:06,160 --> 02:10:09,000
Speaker 1: in life didn't change that much. That the transition from

2159
02:10:09,280 --> 02:10:13,960
Speaker 1: slavery to being free was not as abrupt or as

2160
02:10:14,040 --> 02:10:16,720
Speaker 1: consequential as it was in other parts of the Caribbean.

2161
02:10:17,320 --> 02:10:20,760
Speaker 1: They didn't become landowners, they didn't necessarily get any political

2162
02:10:20,760 --> 02:10:24,760
Speaker 1: power automatically because probably there was still being assigned to

2163
02:10:24,840 --> 02:10:31,240
Speaker 1: crown leases which had certain um agreements and contracts in

2164
02:10:31,280 --> 02:10:35,440
Speaker 1: place with the Crown, that kind of thing. But they

2165
02:10:35,440 --> 02:10:39,680
Speaker 1: were I mean, they were still being exploited, but things

2166
02:10:39,720 --> 02:10:42,440
Speaker 1: were a bit easier for them to transition compared to

2167
02:10:43,080 --> 02:10:47,480
Speaker 1: other places. In eighteen thirty five, agreements had secured probably

2168
02:10:47,480 --> 02:10:51,960
Speaker 1: the unemployment on conjuring turn empress enterprises at specific rates

2169
02:10:51,960 --> 02:10:56,200
Speaker 1: to pay. But after the contract had lapsed, it really

2170
02:10:56,200 --> 02:11:00,720
Speaker 1: revooted to a sort of relationship of of coersion. They

2171
02:11:00,760 --> 02:11:04,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't pay them, they wouldn't pay them their wages. They

2172
02:11:04,160 --> 02:11:07,920
Speaker 1: would take quote and quote ricalcutu and prob udans and

2173
02:11:08,480 --> 02:11:14,360
Speaker 1: transport them to Antigue and jails or plantations, and they

2174
02:11:14,400 --> 02:11:17,160
Speaker 1: would continue to just siphon off of the island. One

2175
02:11:17,200 --> 02:11:19,920
Speaker 1: of the only exports really on the island at the

2176
02:11:20,000 --> 02:11:29,200
Speaker 1: time was cattle, mostly for Carrington's estates and Antigua cattle, sheep,

2177
02:11:29,320 --> 02:11:32,800
Speaker 1: and firewood. And the people themselves were engaged in cultivating

2178
02:11:32,920 --> 02:11:39,520
Speaker 1: provisions yams, potatoes, corn, and supplying their own farmer history.

2179
02:11:39,560 --> 02:11:44,720
Speaker 1: They were including the necessities. So Abudans would continue with

2180
02:11:44,840 --> 02:11:49,440
Speaker 1: their different occupations, their hunting and they're fishing, their provision

2181
02:11:49,480 --> 02:11:52,560
Speaker 1: intending their cutting wood and put in charcoal and salvage

2182
02:11:52,560 --> 02:11:55,760
Speaker 1: and wrecks. Sometimes would they would be employed by proprietors

2183
02:11:55,760 --> 02:11:59,760
Speaker 1: with governments, but most times they either disregarded these authorities

2184
02:11:59,880 --> 02:12:03,400
Speaker 1: or acted in open defiance. And so as the state

2185
02:12:03,440 --> 02:12:08,240
Speaker 1: would often complain about bob Uduans and their disregard for

2186
02:12:09,320 --> 02:12:14,080
Speaker 1: the crowns property and the estates property, they would often

2187
02:12:14,120 --> 02:12:18,200
Speaker 1: be accused of poaching Cortinon's cattle, and so they will

2188
02:12:18,640 --> 02:12:21,840
Speaker 1: There was one attempt in particular to seize all their

2189
02:12:21,920 --> 02:12:26,120
Speaker 1: guns and send them off of the Ireland. And so

2190
02:12:26,160 --> 02:12:30,560
Speaker 1: when the government did step in and condemned Bobby Duns

2191
02:12:30,680 --> 02:12:35,440
Speaker 1: for you know, taking cattle when they wanted to take cattle,

2192
02:12:36,080 --> 02:12:41,160
Speaker 1: Bobby Duns basically pull an reverse card and demanded redress

2193
02:12:41,240 --> 02:12:46,840
Speaker 1: against interference with their livelihoods. They basically were like, I'll

2194
02:12:46,880 --> 02:12:51,040
Speaker 1: quote one petition that was written by Bob Dunces in

2195
02:12:51,080 --> 02:12:54,800
Speaker 1: eighteen we are deprived of the use of our firearms,

2196
02:12:54,840 --> 02:12:57,760
Speaker 1: where by most of us live in shooting any large fish,

2197
02:12:57,840 --> 02:13:00,720
Speaker 1: tootill or wild birds. We are told to take old licenses,

2198
02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:03,120
Speaker 1: yet if we are seen with a gun, not even shooting,

2199
02:13:03,360 --> 02:13:08,320
Speaker 1: we're taken before the Mages Street of Antigua and severely punished,

2200
02:13:08,440 --> 02:13:11,400
Speaker 1: punished for it. Our little gardens are gone to waste.

2201
02:13:11,480 --> 02:13:15,160
Speaker 1: And if such as still in a little cultivation was

2202
02:13:15,200 --> 02:13:17,720
Speaker 1: to be injured by weather and we by sickness are

2203
02:13:17,720 --> 02:13:20,960
Speaker 1: not able to have the fences repaired directly, it has taken.

2204
02:13:21,040 --> 02:13:23,280
Speaker 1: And Bruin say, our intention is willing to catch the

2205
02:13:23,280 --> 02:13:29,120
Speaker 1: wild beasts of Mr Cardrington's. Eventually, I guess the Cardring

2206
02:13:29,200 --> 02:13:36,280
Speaker 1: terms got tired of having to not profit as well

2207
02:13:36,320 --> 02:13:38,000
Speaker 1: as they could have, of having to deal with these

2208
02:13:38,040 --> 02:13:41,480
Speaker 1: independent people. Their relinquished on their least. In eighteen seventy

2209
02:13:41,520 --> 02:13:43,800
Speaker 1: they took all their horses and cattle of the island,

2210
02:13:44,280 --> 02:13:47,280
Speaker 1: leaving only the day and sheep because he currently round

2211
02:13:47,320 --> 02:13:51,120
Speaker 1: up day and sheep as effectively at that point, and

2212
02:13:51,160 --> 02:13:54,680
Speaker 1: they basically they left um. And I always find it

2213
02:13:54,720 --> 02:13:58,040
Speaker 1: interested when Europeans bring like a bunch of European animals

2214
02:13:58,080 --> 02:14:00,120
Speaker 1: wherever they go. It's like, let me just go and

2215
02:14:00,200 --> 02:14:02,280
Speaker 1: set up an estate here in a middle of no

2216
02:14:02,320 --> 02:14:04,920
Speaker 1: way and introduce a bunch of deer and sheep and

2217
02:14:05,040 --> 02:14:06,720
Speaker 1: rabbits and stuff. I mean, I think it happened in

2218
02:14:06,760 --> 02:14:09,120
Speaker 1: Australia as well. They just let a bunch of rabbish

2219
02:14:09,200 --> 02:14:12,040
Speaker 1: school loose just for hunting. It's like, oh, let me

2220
02:14:12,560 --> 02:14:18,880
Speaker 1: like get a hobby that's not shooting animals. But anyway,

2221
02:14:21,560 --> 02:14:24,720
Speaker 1: so because bubbly they were seen as unprofitable. Each lea

2222
02:14:24,840 --> 02:14:28,200
Speaker 1: see that you know, got their least from the Crown,

2223
02:14:29,000 --> 02:14:31,000
Speaker 1: got it its resources as much as they could and

2224
02:14:31,040 --> 02:14:37,640
Speaker 1: neglected its inhabitants. William and Robert Dougal of William and

2225
02:14:37,720 --> 02:14:41,400
Speaker 1: Robert Dougal's probably with the Island Company, never invested the

2226
02:14:41,440 --> 02:14:45,800
Speaker 1: annual one point five or one hundred pounds required by

2227
02:14:45,800 --> 02:14:49,000
Speaker 1: the least only seven hundred pounds rather than they promised.

2228
02:14:49,000 --> 02:14:53,000
Speaker 1: Six thousand worth of stock were introduced with Bailey. With Bailey,

2229
02:14:53,040 --> 02:14:57,160
Speaker 1: a score Pubulans employed as craeziers, and even though they

2230
02:14:57,720 --> 02:15:04,440
Speaker 1: allegedly attempted to plant u swetten, coffee, coola, cuckoo another fruits,

2231
02:15:05,400 --> 02:15:11,280
Speaker 1: they neglected that too, and eventually a derelict. Probably theo

2232
02:15:11,440 --> 02:15:13,360
Speaker 1: was forfeited to the Crown for a non payment of

2233
02:15:13,440 --> 02:15:18,600
Speaker 1: friend when a government official visited the island, we found

2234
02:15:18,760 --> 02:15:22,080
Speaker 1: the day were almost exterminated. The satin wood and log

2235
02:15:22,120 --> 02:15:25,440
Speaker 1: would be depleted, the cattle were famished, the fences would disrepair.

2236
02:15:26,120 --> 02:15:29,360
Speaker 1: They had four mens around up about on horses, ate

2237
02:15:29,400 --> 02:15:32,680
Speaker 1: a cattle and a bunch of cows, and the two

2238
02:15:32,720 --> 02:15:35,200
Speaker 1: products that existed on the island had long since become

2239
02:15:35,280 --> 02:15:39,080
Speaker 1: filthy and fariously overgrown, not only with bush but dense tickets.

2240
02:15:40,400 --> 02:15:44,480
Speaker 1: Dr Dougal's gunners also apparently had a really bad sense

2241
02:15:44,520 --> 02:15:48,000
Speaker 1: of aim because a lot of defences were just riddled

2242
02:15:48,000 --> 02:15:51,560
Speaker 1: with bullets. And so because the island and the people

2243
02:15:51,560 --> 02:15:54,720
Speaker 1: were starbed and degraded by the dow calls Um, the

2244
02:15:54,760 --> 02:16:01,800
Speaker 1: Colonial Office had you know, revoked their lease and basically

2245
02:16:01,800 --> 02:16:04,080
Speaker 1: excuse the few villagers who were taken some of the

2246
02:16:04,120 --> 02:16:12,040
Speaker 1: cattle for themselves. Babbulans had also protested the fact that

2247
02:16:12,320 --> 02:16:15,600
Speaker 1: whenever these leases would pull up on their island, they

2248
02:16:15,640 --> 02:16:20,520
Speaker 1: would always be taking their stock, closing their provision grounds,

2249
02:16:20,960 --> 02:16:26,640
Speaker 1: trying to evict them basically doing everything they could be

2250
02:16:26,840 --> 02:16:29,840
Speaker 1: hostile towards people on the island, and so only their

2251
02:16:29,920 --> 02:16:35,120
Speaker 1: own traditional hunting and farming and and stuff enabled Probbu

2252
02:16:35,200 --> 02:16:39,400
Speaker 1: Dans to survive of course, government being the government didn't

2253
02:16:39,400 --> 02:16:42,480
Speaker 1: really care what the people that much, so even though

2254
02:16:42,480 --> 02:16:46,840
Speaker 1: the lease holders were gone, didn't really get much out

2255
02:16:46,879 --> 02:16:51,119
Speaker 1: of it the people that is stain. After determination lease,

2256
02:16:52,200 --> 02:16:57,040
Speaker 1: the Cluonial government, the Leeward Islands Cluonial governments and Antigua

2257
02:16:57,160 --> 02:17:00,959
Speaker 1: basically took over the island and they established the Government

2258
02:17:01,000 --> 02:17:07,120
Speaker 1: stock Farm one some cotton plots in nineteen three UM.

2259
02:17:07,200 --> 02:17:10,240
Speaker 1: They gave some grants to pay for fencing and cutting

2260
02:17:10,240 --> 02:17:14,359
Speaker 1: wood and cotton experiments and cattle bud chases and mule breeding,

2261
02:17:14,480 --> 02:17:18,360
Speaker 1: and the Bobby runs took the government greens and lands

2262
02:17:18,360 --> 02:17:24,440
Speaker 1: with their own purposes and basically enclosed a portion of

2263
02:17:24,480 --> 02:17:30,039
Speaker 1: that land and left it for the government stock and

2264
02:17:30,120 --> 02:17:32,360
Speaker 1: left the rest of the pasture, the richest parts of

2265
02:17:32,360 --> 02:17:35,600
Speaker 1: the pasture for their own horses and cattle and donkeys.

2266
02:17:36,600 --> 02:17:40,120
Speaker 1: So while the government had to deal with like this

2267
02:17:40,720 --> 02:17:48,200
Speaker 1: small portion of land with like some very weak, insufficient meadow,

2268
02:17:49,120 --> 02:17:52,360
Speaker 1: the rest of the community was able to flourish with

2269
02:17:52,480 --> 02:17:56,480
Speaker 1: a nice, rich pasture for their cattle. And still despite

2270
02:17:56,520 --> 02:17:59,320
Speaker 1: that the stock farm, the Government stock farm, still flourished

2271
02:17:59,560 --> 02:18:02,560
Speaker 1: with during sixty whoses a hundred eight cattle and five

2272
02:18:02,720 --> 02:18:09,400
Speaker 1: mules and then the cotton surprisingly also became profitable on

2273
02:18:09,400 --> 02:18:14,520
Speaker 1: the island. Um I called a crop that really didn't flourish.

2274
02:18:14,560 --> 02:18:17,680
Speaker 1: They are told during slavery was now tating to pick up.

2275
02:18:17,840 --> 02:18:21,800
Speaker 1: In the beginning of the early twentie century. We began

2276
02:18:21,920 --> 02:18:25,039
Speaker 1: shipping caught note and employing a bunch of Barby Dan's

2277
02:18:25,120 --> 02:18:31,680
Speaker 1: and now Bobby there was being scheme is a superprofitable place. However,

2278
02:18:33,320 --> 02:18:36,959
Speaker 1: because of that cotton boom, Bobby Dan's were able to

2279
02:18:37,040 --> 02:18:39,720
Speaker 1: buy passage overseas, they were able to raise the standard

2280
02:18:39,760 --> 02:18:45,200
Speaker 1: of living, and it ended up causing a labor shortage

2281
02:18:46,800 --> 02:18:52,039
Speaker 1: that led to conflict. After a shipwreck off the island,

2282
02:18:53,879 --> 02:18:59,600
Speaker 1: the island manager went to check out what was going

2283
02:18:59,640 --> 02:19:02,880
Speaker 1: on with the salvage and and he caught a bunch

2284
02:19:02,879 --> 02:19:08,200
Speaker 1: of Bubu Dans salvage in but salvage and for their

2285
02:19:08,240 --> 02:19:10,879
Speaker 1: own profits instead of his profits. And so in retaliation,

2286
02:19:10,879 --> 02:19:14,760
Speaker 1: in retaliation for him trying to stop them from salvage

2287
02:19:14,760 --> 02:19:19,480
Speaker 1: and for themselves, the Bobby Duns burnt his boat and

2288
02:19:19,640 --> 02:19:24,560
Speaker 1: his wagon, and so in retaliation for that, the governor

2289
02:19:24,560 --> 02:19:28,760
Speaker 1: of Antigo started to impose these previously uninforced rents and

2290
02:19:28,879 --> 02:19:32,720
Speaker 1: cultivated plots. So like he wanted to charge like five

2291
02:19:32,720 --> 02:19:36,920
Speaker 1: shillings per equal per year, and he also doubled animal

2292
02:19:36,959 --> 02:19:44,840
Speaker 1: head taxes. And so by introducing these taxes, introducing these rents,

2293
02:19:45,120 --> 02:19:48,040
Speaker 1: the government's basically trying to get not just to punish

2294
02:19:48,040 --> 02:19:52,080
Speaker 1: the people for you know, daring to be free, but

2295
02:19:52,200 --> 02:19:55,520
Speaker 1: also trying to force them to work on their cotton plantation.

2296
02:19:57,280 --> 02:20:00,600
Speaker 1: Of course, Bob you Don's, having live so freely for

2297
02:20:00,640 --> 02:20:04,880
Speaker 1: so long, didn't want to work on these cotton plantations,

2298
02:20:05,080 --> 02:20:12,160
Speaker 1: especially not after slavery um. And so the people petitioned

2299
02:20:12,320 --> 02:20:16,440
Speaker 1: the crown against this kind of semi intentioned suitude that

2300
02:20:16,520 --> 02:20:23,200
Speaker 1: the governor was trying to introduce. And it seems that

2301
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:27,360
Speaker 1: mother nature was on their side because they want their case.

2302
02:20:27,840 --> 02:20:32,480
Speaker 1: Due to drought, all the crops were basically ruined by drought,

2303
02:20:33,520 --> 02:20:40,560
Speaker 1: cutting on cotton profits, um cutting on cattle profits, cuttling

2304
02:20:40,600 --> 02:20:45,520
Speaker 1: on crops on corn profits. And all this happened in

2305
02:20:45,600 --> 02:20:50,800
Speaker 1: nineteen six and then in Barbado was hit by a

2306
02:20:50,920 --> 02:20:56,920
Speaker 1: hurricane more severe than they've ever seen before. And so

2307
02:20:58,360 --> 02:21:02,560
Speaker 1: that brief period where Barbido as seen as strike and

2308
02:21:02,600 --> 02:21:06,120
Speaker 1: google for the government came to an end, and bob

2309
02:21:06,200 --> 02:21:09,920
Speaker 1: Udans continued to cling on to their customary modes, subsistence,

2310
02:21:10,280 --> 02:21:14,200
Speaker 1: of self reliance, of survival of their plots and their

2311
02:21:14,240 --> 02:21:17,800
Speaker 1: livestock and their fishing grounds, of continuing to be their

2312
02:21:17,800 --> 02:21:21,240
Speaker 1: own masters, because two d and fifty years of experience

2313
02:21:21,280 --> 02:21:25,640
Speaker 1: had taught them how unreliable and exploitative all these other

2314
02:21:25,680 --> 02:21:30,039
Speaker 1: alternatives that bosses non natives that the government was trying

2315
02:21:30,040 --> 02:21:36,560
Speaker 1: to introduce woo to them, and they learned that only

2316
02:21:36,640 --> 02:21:41,800
Speaker 1: ownership in common would guarantee their access and guarantee the

2317
02:21:41,879 --> 02:21:49,039
Speaker 1: protection of their island from environmental exploitation. As as we

2318
02:21:49,080 --> 02:21:53,480
Speaker 1: get to the interesting part, because they're already long thought

2319
02:21:53,560 --> 02:21:57,720
Speaker 1: to themselves as owners of the island, as possessing the

2320
02:21:57,760 --> 02:22:01,199
Speaker 1: island for themselves, even though on peep but it wasn't

2321
02:22:01,240 --> 02:22:04,680
Speaker 1: the case, even though on people they were being handled

2322
02:22:04,720 --> 02:22:08,280
Speaker 1: between the Crown and the different leaseholders. That the Crown

2323
02:22:08,360 --> 02:22:17,720
Speaker 1: would introduce Barbuda to Barbudaans, being so small, being so homogeneous,

2324
02:22:17,800 --> 02:22:23,920
Speaker 1: having such meager soils, having such strong and type connections

2325
02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:28,720
Speaker 1: and bonds, they saw it as all of theirs collectively.

2326
02:22:32,200 --> 02:22:38,119
Speaker 1: It wasn't like and when I say strong connections, family bonds,

2327
02:22:38,120 --> 02:22:41,360
Speaker 1: I don't mean it in the sense that some of

2328
02:22:41,360 --> 02:22:45,760
Speaker 1: the other in lands in the Caribbean, and was sort

2329
02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:49,039
Speaker 1: of puzzled out because in the Caribbean there are lands

2330
02:22:49,080 --> 02:22:51,640
Speaker 1: that are held by certain families and it passes down

2331
02:22:51,680 --> 02:22:56,080
Speaker 1: the family and going on for generations. But it wasn't

2332
02:22:56,080 --> 02:22:59,080
Speaker 1: this idea that all these particular families owned the land.

2333
02:22:59,080 --> 02:23:03,600
Speaker 1: It was that all of them together wound the land

2334
02:23:04,760 --> 02:23:15,400
Speaker 1: serious real communal land ownership. They'd used the land for generations,

2335
02:23:15,959 --> 02:23:22,080
Speaker 1: to raise ground provisions to hunt there and wild pigs,

2336
02:23:22,320 --> 02:23:26,279
Speaker 1: to keep goats and sheep, to keep cattle, to cut firewood,

2337
02:23:26,360 --> 02:23:29,760
Speaker 1: to fish, and so on. They had no documents and

2338
02:23:29,800 --> 02:23:31,680
Speaker 1: said that they had these collective rights on the island.

2339
02:23:31,680 --> 02:23:35,640
Speaker 1: And yet they all insisted with one voice the Barbuda

2340
02:23:35,879 --> 02:23:40,080
Speaker 1: was theirs. Healin no outsiders could tell them other wise.

2341
02:23:42,040 --> 02:23:47,320
Speaker 1: And furthermore, they had proven again and again and again

2342
02:23:48,520 --> 02:23:53,760
Speaker 1: that outside proprietors were powerless in the face of their

2343
02:23:53,800 --> 02:23:57,520
Speaker 1: attempts to run the island for themselves, because they would

2344
02:23:57,560 --> 02:24:01,520
Speaker 1: continue to graze the cattle wherever they wanted to graze

2345
02:24:01,520 --> 02:24:03,600
Speaker 1: their cattle. They will continue to fish wherever they wanted

2346
02:24:03,640 --> 02:24:08,040
Speaker 1: to fish, salvage whatever they wanted to salvage, cultivate wherever

2347
02:24:08,080 --> 02:24:13,160
Speaker 1: they wanted to cultivate. Who's gonna stop them, you know,

2348
02:24:13,680 --> 02:24:19,360
Speaker 1: clearly nobody. They couldn't even get outside. I couldn't even

2349
02:24:19,360 --> 02:24:25,240
Speaker 1: get like a rent out of prob you done so.

2350
02:24:25,280 --> 02:24:29,440
Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty Bobby Duns hadn't gotten legal entitlement roughly

2351
02:24:29,480 --> 02:24:35,720
Speaker 1: half of the island, and by three they controlled futually

2352
02:24:35,840 --> 02:24:44,160
Speaker 1: all of its resources, basically the facto unfortunately against their will. Honestly,

2353
02:24:46,240 --> 02:24:50,720
Speaker 1: Antigua and Barbuda were joined together by putting live in

2354
02:24:50,720 --> 02:24:54,640
Speaker 1: the strators, and so Antiguan Barbuda is the country that existity.

2355
02:24:55,200 --> 02:25:00,080
Speaker 1: But one of the primary concerns of Abudan's we're that

2356
02:25:00,160 --> 02:25:04,480
Speaker 1: they were able whether they be able to maintain soul ownership,

2357
02:25:05,080 --> 02:25:09,640
Speaker 1: soul control, soul compunal control over the lands of Barbuda.

2358
02:25:11,840 --> 02:25:14,879
Speaker 1: Land ownership has been an issue that bob Udon's have

2359
02:25:14,920 --> 02:25:17,520
Speaker 1: had with Antigua for a very very long time now,

2360
02:25:17,600 --> 02:25:23,000
Speaker 1: for decades now, and really all bob Udan's want is

2361
02:25:23,040 --> 02:25:29,160
Speaker 1: to maintain their common ownership for themselves alone, and so

2362
02:25:29,200 --> 02:25:33,480
Speaker 1: they have maintained that through the Barbudan Council defending the

2363
02:25:33,560 --> 02:25:37,320
Speaker 1: land and declaring that no land in Barbuda can be

2364
02:25:37,360 --> 02:25:42,160
Speaker 1: sold or developed without the permission of the Bubbudan Council.

2365
02:25:43,680 --> 02:25:46,720
Speaker 1: And so now to explain basically how common land use

2366
02:25:46,840 --> 02:25:52,120
Speaker 1: works in Barbuda, there are two distinctive and useful moods

2367
02:25:52,280 --> 02:25:56,560
Speaker 1: of land use. Shifting cultivation for provision grounds and open

2368
02:25:56,680 --> 02:26:01,520
Speaker 1: range pastured for livestock. Because there's oil is so weak,

2369
02:26:01,920 --> 02:26:05,920
Speaker 1: shifting cultivation is a necessity. And so after one or

2370
02:26:05,959 --> 02:26:09,920
Speaker 1: two years of planting exhaustive soil, they move their fencing,

2371
02:26:10,080 --> 02:26:13,920
Speaker 1: they move their grounds of between half an acre to

2372
02:26:14,080 --> 02:26:19,200
Speaker 1: two or three acres, and plants they are sweet potatoes, yams,

2373
02:26:20,200 --> 02:26:25,240
Speaker 1: me is, beans, pigeon ps, squash, peanuts, etcetera. Elsewhere. So

2374
02:26:25,400 --> 02:26:31,520
Speaker 1: the old land could you know, regenerate, but this constant

2375
02:26:31,520 --> 02:26:36,800
Speaker 1: cultivation is something that occurs. The grants really no permanent

2376
02:26:36,879 --> 02:26:41,400
Speaker 1: rights any one individual. You do have use rights. It

2377
02:26:41,480 --> 02:26:45,879
Speaker 1: is the principle of use of fruct over the area're cultivating,

2378
02:26:46,640 --> 02:26:52,000
Speaker 1: but you don't have permanent ownership over that piece of

2379
02:26:52,080 --> 02:26:56,120
Speaker 1: land that you're cultivating. And they have that system in

2380
02:26:56,160 --> 02:26:59,000
Speaker 1: place because they recognize living on the island for the

2381
02:26:59,120 --> 02:27:04,560
Speaker 1: generations that bob ut As ecology is extremely fragile, extremely

2382
02:27:04,600 --> 02:27:10,120
Speaker 1: limited um its resources are limited, and so they have

2383
02:27:10,240 --> 02:27:18,039
Speaker 1: to safeguard there um, the as sustenance for generations to come. Yeah,

2384
02:27:18,040 --> 02:27:23,119
Speaker 1: it's fascinating, Actually, it's really I didn't know anything about that. Yeah, yeah,

2385
02:27:23,160 --> 02:27:27,120
Speaker 1: it really is. Similarly with them with the slash and

2386
02:27:27,120 --> 02:27:30,680
Speaker 1: bloom cultivation, they also had the management of open range

2387
02:27:30,760 --> 02:27:40,160
Speaker 1: livestock being very much unrestricted. Um. They're actually feral cattle

2388
02:27:40,920 --> 02:27:43,360
Speaker 1: that exists on the island in addition to the more

2389
02:27:43,400 --> 02:27:47,359
Speaker 1: teamed and pen animals. Um. And so how they basically

2390
02:27:47,360 --> 02:27:50,000
Speaker 1: they allow all their animals, you know, mixed and mingo

2391
02:27:51,040 --> 02:27:56,480
Speaker 1: of different families and different individuals would have their specific

2392
02:27:56,520 --> 02:27:59,760
Speaker 1: cattle or horses or sheep or whatever a marked or branded.

2393
02:28:00,360 --> 02:28:04,840
Speaker 1: But for the most part, they they've maintained this sort

2394
02:28:04,840 --> 02:28:09,000
Speaker 1: of open range husbandry because it helps to sustain their unity.

2395
02:28:10,200 --> 02:28:13,360
Speaker 1: It helps to maintain their strengthen their social bonds and

2396
02:28:13,400 --> 02:28:19,600
Speaker 1: their community solidarity, to basically ensure that everyone has taken

2397
02:28:19,600 --> 02:28:26,080
Speaker 1: care of in a place that is so scant resources. Lastly,

2398
02:28:29,360 --> 02:28:32,560
Speaker 1: through one of the ways that they maintain in the

2399
02:28:32,560 --> 02:28:37,080
Speaker 1: balance of the island is through is through emigration. The

2400
02:28:37,240 --> 02:28:42,039
Speaker 1: population has basically stayed at that level because they've stayed

2401
02:28:42,040 --> 02:28:44,840
Speaker 1: within the limits of the resources they have on the

2402
02:28:44,879 --> 02:28:49,640
Speaker 1: island and so young, Bob, you don't have had to

2403
02:28:49,720 --> 02:28:57,560
Speaker 1: leave um the island, um while still maintaining their communal

2404
02:28:57,680 --> 02:29:01,680
Speaker 1: use rights to the land. And then eventually they would

2405
02:29:01,680 --> 02:29:07,720
Speaker 1: make remittances of money or resources and periodic returns that

2406
02:29:07,800 --> 02:29:14,320
Speaker 1: would help to introduce you know, healthcare resources and housing

2407
02:29:14,360 --> 02:29:18,160
Speaker 1: resources and education resources to the island. Just another day,

2408
02:29:18,320 --> 02:29:21,080
Speaker 1: like completely isolated from the outside world, living in this

2409
02:29:21,200 --> 02:29:24,360
Speaker 1: sort of bubble. They do still have that exchange going on.

2410
02:29:25,600 --> 02:29:29,240
Speaker 1: Most of the immigrants live in three primary communities, seeing

2411
02:29:29,320 --> 02:29:34,400
Speaker 1: John's Antigua of course, seeing as it's the neighbor. Um.

2412
02:29:34,440 --> 02:29:36,280
Speaker 1: A lot of them are in New York City, I

2413
02:29:36,320 --> 02:29:38,640
Speaker 1: mean a lot of Korean people in general New York City,

2414
02:29:38,720 --> 02:29:42,000
Speaker 1: but Bob Dan's are in New York City. And all

2415
02:29:42,040 --> 02:29:47,360
Speaker 1: of them also live in Britain in Leicester as part

2416
02:29:47,440 --> 02:29:49,880
Speaker 1: of the West Indian exodus that took place all the

2417
02:29:49,920 --> 02:29:58,880
Speaker 1: way back in the late nineteen fifties. Yeah, so sort

2418
02:29:58,920 --> 02:30:06,039
Speaker 1: of wrap things here. Um. Their communities and their solidarity

2419
02:30:06,240 --> 02:30:08,280
Speaker 1: have allowed them to cope with a harsh environment and

2420
02:30:08,400 --> 02:30:16,279
Speaker 1: to successfully navigate a succession of misinformed aloof sometimes actually

2421
02:30:16,320 --> 02:30:23,039
Speaker 1: hostile and mostly incompetent proprietors managers and administrators. Being so

2422
02:30:23,160 --> 02:30:26,200
Speaker 1: unified and holding themselves in solidarity, they have managed to

2423
02:30:26,280 --> 02:30:31,119
Speaker 1: maintain their traditional resource ownership, their communal land tenure, and

2424
02:30:31,400 --> 02:30:41,600
Speaker 1: their fragile ecology completely and totally UM rejecting the assocutions

2425
02:30:41,680 --> 02:30:45,840
Speaker 1: that the economist carried hard and made about the tragedy

2426
02:30:46,200 --> 02:30:49,640
Speaker 1: of the commons, it has not been a tragedy for

2427
02:30:49,720 --> 02:30:57,560
Speaker 1: what you've done. It has been a triumph until recently. Unfortunately,

2428
02:30:57,720 --> 02:31:05,360
Speaker 1: in September, how Urricane Uma damaged and destroyed of the

2429
02:31:05,400 --> 02:31:10,120
Speaker 1: islands buildings and infrastructure, and as a result, all of

2430
02:31:10,160 --> 02:31:14,440
Speaker 1: the island's inhabitants had to evacuate Antiguo, leaving Babbuda empty

2431
02:31:14,520 --> 02:31:19,840
Speaker 1: for the first time in hundreds of years wow, I

2432
02:31:19,879 --> 02:31:24,080
Speaker 1: mean two years later. By February, most of the residents

2433
02:31:24,080 --> 02:31:29,640
Speaker 1: have returned to the island. However, the Prime Minister of Antiguo,

2434
02:31:31,200 --> 02:31:36,920
Speaker 1: Gaston Alfonso Brown he's been leader since UM, has been

2435
02:31:36,959 --> 02:31:46,560
Speaker 1: making moves essentially to privatize Barbuda. His background before entering

2436
02:31:46,600 --> 02:31:52,800
Speaker 1: politics was being a banker and a businessman, and he

2437
02:31:52,879 --> 02:31:57,240
Speaker 1: seems to be employing the shock doctor and tactic of

2438
02:31:57,400 --> 02:32:07,760
Speaker 1: using environmental catastrophe and social displacement. Two accelerate capitalism. Essentially,

2439
02:32:08,440 --> 02:32:11,959
Speaker 1: after you know, hurricaneum I swept through Um and posted

2440
02:32:12,000 --> 02:32:20,240
Speaker 1: residents became homeless, communication systems came went went down Um

2441
02:32:20,320 --> 02:32:27,800
Speaker 1: and taking Bobulda God relief pounds of relief for Barbuda Um.

2442
02:32:27,800 --> 02:32:36,360
Speaker 1: That's not very much, not very much at all, Um.

2443
02:32:36,400 --> 02:32:40,520
Speaker 1: But it would take over a hundred million dollars to

2444
02:32:40,920 --> 02:32:45,400
Speaker 1: rebuild the homes in the infrastructure in barb udell Um,

2445
02:32:45,480 --> 02:32:48,560
Speaker 1: the old critical infrastructure that existed, the food supply, the medicine,

2446
02:32:48,600 --> 02:32:56,600
Speaker 1: the shelter, electricity, water, communications, waste management and as one

2447
02:32:56,640 --> 02:33:01,360
Speaker 1: person said, UM the directive take in Barbula's National Office

2448
02:33:01,360 --> 02:33:04,440
Speaker 1: of the Disaster Services film Melon. He said, in my

2449
02:33:04,480 --> 02:33:07,440
Speaker 1: twenty five years of disaster management, I've never seen something

2450
02:33:07,480 --> 02:33:10,560
Speaker 1: like this. It is optimistic to think anything like this

2451
02:33:10,800 --> 02:33:13,760
Speaker 1: be rebuilt in six months. They have to rebuild entirely

2452
02:33:14,520 --> 02:33:20,120
Speaker 1: all of their public utilities UM. And so essentially what

2453
02:33:22,200 --> 02:33:25,640
Speaker 1: Prime Minister Gaston or funds who Brown is trying to

2454
02:33:25,680 --> 02:33:36,119
Speaker 1: do is revoke communal landownership, allow the residents to buy

2455
02:33:36,200 --> 02:33:42,800
Speaker 1: some land and use the rest to basically introduce UM

2456
02:33:43,040 --> 02:33:52,840
Speaker 1: resorts and who tells and other to risk attractions to

2457
02:33:52,959 --> 02:33:57,840
Speaker 1: help fund the rebuilding efforts, but of course we know

2458
02:33:57,879 --> 02:34:00,760
Speaker 1: the way that money is actually going to go. And

2459
02:34:01,800 --> 02:34:05,800
Speaker 1: that's as far as I know about the situation. UM. Unfortunately,

2460
02:34:05,840 --> 02:34:11,640
Speaker 1: don't have any connections in Antihuan Barbuda yet. UM, But

2461
02:34:13,480 --> 02:34:16,520
Speaker 1: unfortunately that is what it's been going on in another

2462
02:34:16,560 --> 02:34:25,600
Speaker 1: example basically of disaster capitalism trying to cease and accumulates

2463
02:34:25,800 --> 02:34:34,840
Speaker 1: through violence and for exploitation as usual. I hope that

2464
02:34:34,879 --> 02:34:38,480
Speaker 1: you know, we've seen and been inspired by Barbula's efforts,

2465
02:34:38,520 --> 02:34:41,800
Speaker 1: and I hope that probably don't able to continue to

2466
02:34:41,800 --> 02:34:49,600
Speaker 1: prove themselves resilient in the face of this disaster. That's fascinating.

2467
02:34:49,840 --> 02:34:51,960
Speaker 1: And do you know, like I'm interested in these like

2468
02:34:52,040 --> 02:34:57,120
Speaker 1: diasporic communities like you said, there's one in Lester and stuff.

2469
02:34:57,200 --> 02:34:59,920
Speaker 1: It's like, do they still have like a very strong

2470
02:35:00,120 --> 02:35:04,320
Speaker 1: community coherents like when they when they go elsewhere and

2471
02:35:05,840 --> 02:35:07,960
Speaker 1: to like did like you said, they tend to gather

2472
02:35:08,040 --> 02:35:11,040
Speaker 1: in like certain spots. Be interested in like how those folks,

2473
02:35:11,760 --> 02:35:13,600
Speaker 1: I guess dealt with a very different life in like

2474
02:35:13,680 --> 02:35:20,600
Speaker 1: New York or Leicester or wherever right well, Um, like

2475
02:35:20,720 --> 02:35:24,640
Speaker 1: other Caribbean people who have emigrated, we do tend to

2476
02:35:24,720 --> 02:35:31,640
Speaker 1: concentrating cuittain places where we already have family connections. Um.

2477
02:35:31,680 --> 02:35:35,800
Speaker 1: I think most Scribbean people have at least a relative

2478
02:35:36,360 --> 02:35:42,560
Speaker 1: living abroad. Yeah, an uncle, a great uncle, second cousin,

2479
02:35:42,600 --> 02:35:49,119
Speaker 1: the cousin whatever. Um, And so it sort of builds

2480
02:35:49,160 --> 02:35:51,280
Speaker 1: from there. And so you try and be that, you

2481
02:35:51,360 --> 02:35:54,360
Speaker 1: create like a piece of home and sort of settle

2482
02:35:54,440 --> 02:35:57,240
Speaker 1: and concentrate in those areas and live in those areas

2483
02:35:57,280 --> 02:36:01,640
Speaker 1: and support each other in those areas. Yeah, and that,

2484
02:36:01,760 --> 02:36:05,680
Speaker 1: I would say helps with the adjustment. Yeah, yeah, that

2485
02:36:06,000 --> 02:36:09,400
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Um. So you can

2486
02:36:09,440 --> 02:36:14,320
Speaker 1: find me on YouTube dot com slash andrewism on patre

2487
02:36:14,360 --> 02:36:16,800
Speaker 1: dot com slash scene true, and on Twitter dot com

2488
02:36:16,879 --> 02:36:21,040
Speaker 1: slash on discore scene true. If you are Bob, you done,

2489
02:36:21,440 --> 02:36:22,800
Speaker 1: Please don't have you to reach out to me. I

2490
02:36:22,800 --> 02:36:24,680
Speaker 1: would love to learn more about the situation going on

2491
02:36:25,680 --> 02:36:46,920
Speaker 1: and wish all all the best solidarity. Who's dying today,

2492
02:36:46,959 --> 02:36:51,200
Speaker 1: it's Queen, it's the Queen. Well correction, she's not dying,

2493
02:36:51,400 --> 02:36:57,160
Speaker 1: she's she's dead. That ladies said. Yeah, very sad, obviously,

2494
02:36:58,520 --> 02:37:02,200
Speaker 1: very sad. Grieving punk us today brought to you by

2495
02:37:02,280 --> 02:37:04,600
Speaker 1: it could happen here. It's all of us. It's it's me,

2496
02:37:04,760 --> 02:37:08,160
Speaker 1: it's Get, it's Chris, it's Robert, and it's the ghost

2497
02:37:08,160 --> 02:37:10,440
Speaker 1: of the Queen. We're talking about the queen. She's dead,

2498
02:37:10,959 --> 02:37:15,480
Speaker 1: what's up with that? Yeah, she's real dead. Um, I

2499
02:37:15,520 --> 02:37:17,280
Speaker 1: haven't seen. You know what I haven't seen that I'm

2500
02:37:17,280 --> 02:37:20,680
Speaker 1: disappointed of is a new version of the Monty Python

2501
02:37:20,800 --> 02:37:24,520
Speaker 1: Dead Parrot sketch involving her corpse. And it's and it's

2502
02:37:24,640 --> 02:37:29,240
Speaker 1: fancy casket. Um, but that's still time, still time we

2503
02:37:29,280 --> 02:37:31,959
Speaker 1: can change that. Now. My question is, James, is that

2504
02:37:32,080 --> 02:37:35,959
Speaker 1: legal in the UK? Now? Absolutely not. No, you will

2505
02:37:36,000 --> 02:37:40,199
Speaker 1: get so arrested, not even arrested. This is the worst

2506
02:37:40,280 --> 02:37:42,920
Speaker 1: part people have just like I don't understand what the

2507
02:37:42,959 --> 02:37:45,160
Speaker 1: funk is wrong with people, but they have become volunteer

2508
02:37:45,200 --> 02:37:48,520
Speaker 1: cops to like defend a guy who's been credibly accused

2509
02:37:48,520 --> 02:37:52,800
Speaker 1: of peedophilia. I am disappointed in us. Do not be

2510
02:37:53,720 --> 02:37:57,320
Speaker 1: policing your fellow people for exercising some of the very

2511
02:37:57,320 --> 02:38:00,240
Speaker 1: few rights at the conservative well because everybody how taken

2512
02:38:00,240 --> 02:38:03,600
Speaker 1: away from them. Actually, but yeah, you've only let yourself down.

2513
02:38:03,760 --> 02:38:09,959
Speaker 1: I'm disappointed. Yeah, they they they really really hating anyone

2514
02:38:10,120 --> 02:38:14,360
Speaker 1: who is not thrilled about the monarchy. They're arresting people

2515
02:38:14,360 --> 02:38:18,280
Speaker 1: of having not my king signs. I see that Jetwood

2516
02:38:18,560 --> 02:38:21,840
Speaker 1: is taking it to the fascist state, which is great

2517
02:38:21,879 --> 02:38:25,400
Speaker 1: to see. But we're gonna be talking about the Queen

2518
02:38:26,000 --> 02:38:29,959
Speaker 1: or former former queen. Um I do want to do

2519
02:38:30,000 --> 02:38:32,800
Speaker 1: want a note that you know, the day the Queen died,

2520
02:38:33,440 --> 02:38:36,520
Speaker 1: a big wave of condolences came in, including from Domino's

2521
02:38:36,520 --> 02:38:40,920
Speaker 1: Pizza UK, which which if you don't understand, the Queen

2522
02:38:40,959 --> 02:38:43,880
Speaker 1: had a very deep relationship with Dominoes, so this this

2523
02:38:43,920 --> 02:38:46,920
Speaker 1: does mean a lot um they were, they were, they

2524
02:38:46,920 --> 02:38:51,840
Speaker 1: were lovers. Among those who posted their condolences was Hamilton's

2525
02:38:51,840 --> 02:38:58,000
Speaker 1: West End, the Britain the Britain r MT, which is

2526
02:38:58,000 --> 02:39:02,520
Speaker 1: like the British Railway unions their strike, which I think

2527
02:39:02,600 --> 02:39:04,959
Speaker 1: is the most pissed at coward thing I've ever seen.

2528
02:39:05,000 --> 02:39:08,680
Speaker 1: The union do. British Cycling suggested to people not go

2529
02:39:08,760 --> 02:39:10,959
Speaker 1: out for a bike ride during the time of the Queens.

2530
02:39:12,800 --> 02:39:19,080
Speaker 1: Are you fucking serious? My god? They're literally was deal

2531
02:39:19,160 --> 02:39:23,200
Speaker 1: with the closing food. I think the funniest one was

2532
02:39:23,640 --> 02:39:29,000
Speaker 1: Labs Rob posted everyone is deeply saddened by the passing

2533
02:39:29,000 --> 02:39:30,880
Speaker 1: of her. Madnesty in the Queen and we offer our

2534
02:39:30,879 --> 02:39:33,400
Speaker 1: sincere conduleces to the royal family. We joined together with

2535
02:39:33,480 --> 02:39:35,520
Speaker 1: the people of the United Kingdom and all around the

2536
02:39:35,520 --> 02:39:38,360
Speaker 1: world and mourning her loss, which they then which they

2537
02:39:38,400 --> 02:39:41,040
Speaker 1: then deleted an hour later. If there's one thing that

2538
02:39:41,240 --> 02:39:43,760
Speaker 1: Mrs rob is about, it's about people all though for

2539
02:39:43,800 --> 02:39:47,880
Speaker 1: the world, mourning the loss of monarchy, it's the main

2540
02:39:47,959 --> 02:39:52,840
Speaker 1: thing about it. So yeah, most of on Twitter was

2541
02:39:52,879 --> 02:39:57,840
Speaker 1: definitely was definitely split between these companies posting how they're

2542
02:39:57,879 --> 02:40:00,800
Speaker 1: so sad. That also a lot of people pretty pretty

2543
02:40:00,840 --> 02:40:02,840
Speaker 1: thrilled that the queen died, because it's kind of funny

2544
02:40:02,920 --> 02:40:07,200
Speaker 1: because we were all shocked by the nine year old

2545
02:40:07,200 --> 02:40:13,600
Speaker 1: woman who died. She was so young. It's she was.

2546
02:40:13,680 --> 02:40:16,080
Speaker 1: She was at an age that if you reversed her

2547
02:40:16,160 --> 02:40:18,960
Speaker 1: age and told me she had died, I still wouldn't

2548
02:40:18,959 --> 02:40:21,680
Speaker 1: have been surprised. Like she was at an age where

2549
02:40:21,720 --> 02:40:24,160
Speaker 1: like even if you flip the numbers, she's still all.

2550
02:40:24,560 --> 02:40:28,160
Speaker 1: She still Yeah, it's great to see the Telegraph today

2551
02:40:28,240 --> 02:40:31,920
Speaker 1: running a headline five mile Q to view Elizabeth's second coffin.

2552
02:40:32,040 --> 02:40:37,440
Speaker 1: We'll see horrible stories of suffering. This is a country

2553
02:40:37,640 --> 02:40:40,520
Speaker 1: where she said, will not be able to heat their

2554
02:40:40,560 --> 02:40:46,040
Speaker 1: homes this winter. It's a country an explosion in food insecurity,

2555
02:40:46,160 --> 02:40:48,920
Speaker 1: and this is what we're doing. It's like like the

2556
02:40:49,800 --> 02:40:52,800
Speaker 1: British like, okay, so the Crown did not call directly

2557
02:40:52,840 --> 02:40:56,480
Speaker 1: for a blood sacrifice. The British people are just bound

2558
02:40:56,520 --> 02:41:00,840
Speaker 1: and determined to have people die like they're like they're

2559
02:41:00,879 --> 02:41:04,520
Speaker 1: like they're lining up in the streets to sacrifice themselves

2560
02:41:04,920 --> 02:41:07,959
Speaker 1: for the dead. It is I mean, magical things don't

2561
02:41:07,959 --> 02:41:10,280
Speaker 1: do us all that way. There's some people sharing up

2562
02:41:10,280 --> 02:41:14,600
Speaker 1: with not my King signs and getting assaulted by mobs

2563
02:41:14,640 --> 02:41:21,199
Speaker 1: and people like regular as people. Yeah, yeah, most people

2564
02:41:21,240 --> 02:41:23,920
Speaker 1: are not that concerned. Most people are not like it's

2565
02:41:24,000 --> 02:41:26,040
Speaker 1: just like the Turfs in Britain. There are like a

2566
02:41:26,760 --> 02:41:29,720
Speaker 1: small minority of people who do nothing but tweet right

2567
02:41:29,760 --> 02:41:33,280
Speaker 1: for the Guardian, who misrepresent the opinions of most British

2568
02:41:33,320 --> 02:41:35,160
Speaker 1: people who are not that concerned. But like a lot

2569
02:41:35,160 --> 02:41:36,879
Speaker 1: of these British people do show up in person and

2570
02:41:36,920 --> 02:41:40,560
Speaker 1: like shut down like yes, it's it is not It

2571
02:41:40,680 --> 02:41:43,800
Speaker 1: is not the case that like there isn't widespread support

2572
02:41:43,840 --> 02:41:46,000
Speaker 1: for this kind of ship. It's just that it's it's

2573
02:41:46,040 --> 02:41:49,000
Speaker 1: not uniform and that's the people who do speak The

2574
02:41:49,000 --> 02:41:51,480
Speaker 1: people who do speak up also tend to get arrested,

2575
02:41:52,120 --> 02:41:54,760
Speaker 1: which its just like it's it's sort of amazing. It's like, okay,

2576
02:41:55,000 --> 02:41:58,880
Speaker 1: Britain got industrial capitalism before like any other country to Earth. Right,

2577
02:41:59,640 --> 02:42:03,480
Speaker 1: the boy Josie has one job. One job there. One

2578
02:42:03,600 --> 02:42:06,040
Speaker 1: job is to destroy feudalism. And they could even the

2579
02:42:06,080 --> 02:42:08,959
Speaker 1: British couldn't do it. They had they had the largest

2580
02:42:09,000 --> 02:42:12,040
Speaker 1: head start of any country on Earth, and they couldn't

2581
02:42:12,160 --> 02:42:16,440
Speaker 1: do it. It's incredible, it's miraculous. They were co opted

2582
02:42:16,560 --> 02:42:19,240
Speaker 1: into these few elites through things like the Great Reform Acts,

2583
02:42:19,240 --> 02:42:22,280
Speaker 1: which which used property as a proxy for land or

2584
02:42:22,440 --> 02:42:25,200
Speaker 1: capital as a proxy for land, and it's worked remarkably well.

2585
02:42:25,240 --> 02:42:27,360
Speaker 1: And now we just do false consciousness ship like this,

2586
02:42:28,160 --> 02:42:32,400
Speaker 1: Like how good is your false consciousness game? When people

2587
02:42:32,400 --> 02:42:35,840
Speaker 1: who can't heat their homes are sleeping on the street

2588
02:42:36,440 --> 02:42:40,440
Speaker 1: to say goodbye to presumably a billionaire who never cared

2589
02:42:40,480 --> 02:42:45,000
Speaker 1: about them. Yeah, it's like raculous. Yeah, you absolutely who

2590
02:42:45,120 --> 02:42:49,320
Speaker 1: was not equipped emotionally to have ever cared about them,

2591
02:42:49,560 --> 02:42:53,080
Speaker 1: who's soul would never have allowed her to care about them. Yeah,

2592
02:42:53,320 --> 02:42:55,520
Speaker 1: let's let's like you know, as as lots of people

2593
02:42:55,560 --> 02:42:59,080
Speaker 1: were romanticizing the monarchy and the queen and doing their

2594
02:42:59,120 --> 02:43:01,920
Speaker 1: like performative more nings. Obviously, there was a way of

2595
02:43:01,959 --> 02:43:04,800
Speaker 1: other people being like, hey, you know, the Royal family

2596
02:43:04,879 --> 02:43:07,560
Speaker 1: is kind of kind of sucked up. You know, they've

2597
02:43:07,560 --> 02:43:11,640
Speaker 1: stolen billions of dollars and jewels from countries like India

2598
02:43:11,800 --> 02:43:17,280
Speaker 1: and across South Africa. Um, they're continuing to benefit from

2599
02:43:17,800 --> 02:43:22,640
Speaker 1: Britain's history of colonialism. The earlier earlier this year, during

2600
02:43:22,680 --> 02:43:26,800
Speaker 1: the during the during the Queen's jubilee celebration, an old

2601
02:43:26,879 --> 02:43:31,720
Speaker 1: Kenyan revolutionary fighter used the used the the occasion to

2602
02:43:32,080 --> 02:43:34,640
Speaker 1: call for an explanation from the Queen for why she

2603
02:43:34,680 --> 02:43:39,600
Speaker 1: hasn't been compensated after being tortured with axes by British troops.

2604
02:43:40,680 --> 02:43:45,360
Speaker 1: Look at the Britain treated. We're stuff on this. I

2605
02:43:45,400 --> 02:43:47,240
Speaker 1: have stuff on this later for this episode. Actually, we're

2606
02:43:47,280 --> 02:43:51,200
Speaker 1: gonna be talking about that. Seventeen estimate found that the

2607
02:43:51,240 --> 02:43:54,760
Speaker 1: Royal family is estimated to be worth eighty eight billion

2608
02:43:54,800 --> 02:43:59,039
Speaker 1: dollars um. Yeah, and a lot of that's obviously not

2609
02:43:59,200 --> 02:44:01,440
Speaker 1: in straight cash, which is one of the ways like

2610
02:44:01,480 --> 02:44:04,080
Speaker 1: people are talking about, oh, Charles inherited half a billion, No,

2611
02:44:04,240 --> 02:44:09,360
Speaker 1: Charles billions of dollars. Like they own a lot of land, Yes,

2612
02:44:09,520 --> 02:44:12,720
Speaker 1: they own a huge amount of land. Um. Charles has

2613
02:44:12,760 --> 02:44:16,600
Speaker 1: his own real estate empire that he like created while

2614
02:44:16,680 --> 02:44:20,880
Speaker 1: he was waiting for his mom to fucking croak um.

2615
02:44:20,959 --> 02:44:24,040
Speaker 1: And they also have like a fortune and a really

2616
02:44:24,080 --> 02:44:27,080
Speaker 1: actually uncountable like you have to think about their wealth

2617
02:44:27,120 --> 02:44:30,080
Speaker 1: like the Vatican, Like there's no actual way, Like it's

2618
02:44:30,120 --> 02:44:33,560
Speaker 1: functionally limitless money because so much of what they own

2619
02:44:33,840 --> 02:44:37,240
Speaker 1: is like priceless antiquities, many of which were stolen from

2620
02:44:37,280 --> 02:44:40,640
Speaker 1: other people. Yeah. An it's hard to put a tangible number.

2621
02:44:40,640 --> 02:44:42,720
Speaker 1: And that's sort of their value and that sort of

2622
02:44:42,720 --> 02:44:45,120
Speaker 1: what if you want to go to celebrity status, Yes,

2623
02:44:45,440 --> 02:44:48,720
Speaker 1: what is that fucking diamond in the goddamn crown worth? Right?

2624
02:44:48,760 --> 02:44:51,119
Speaker 1: Like there's no real way to appraise that. Yeah. Well,

2625
02:44:51,160 --> 02:44:52,680
Speaker 1: and I want to point this out, like if they

2626
02:44:52,720 --> 02:44:55,119
Speaker 1: tried to sell the diamond, almost certainly what would happen

2627
02:44:55,280 --> 02:44:57,200
Speaker 1: is like the British people would give her three billion

2628
02:44:57,240 --> 02:45:00,280
Speaker 1: dollars and they give her the diamond back they crowd funded. Yeah,

2629
02:45:00,520 --> 02:45:03,080
Speaker 1: they'd stopped doing the subsidies for heating that they've just

2630
02:45:03,120 --> 02:45:05,240
Speaker 1: started doing and buy the diamond back. Here, let's talk

2631
02:45:05,280 --> 02:45:08,760
Speaker 1: about let's let's let's talk about the heating thing briefly

2632
02:45:08,800 --> 02:45:13,640
Speaker 1: because I think uh. An anchor on BBC was discussing

2633
02:45:13,680 --> 02:45:17,720
Speaker 1: how news of the Queen's passing basically interrupted all other

2634
02:45:17,800 --> 02:45:22,440
Speaker 1: news in the UK, UM including statements being given on

2635
02:45:22,600 --> 02:45:26,400
Speaker 1: the price increase in energy bills and the raising cost

2636
02:45:26,440 --> 02:45:30,000
Speaker 1: of living, um stating that that those topics, that the

2637
02:45:30,000 --> 02:45:32,560
Speaker 1: topics of cost of living and the rise of energy

2638
02:45:32,560 --> 02:45:36,480
Speaker 1: bills was quote insignificant. Now due to the gravity of

2639
02:45:36,480 --> 02:45:40,000
Speaker 1: this situation, we can we can insert this clip here

2640
02:45:40,000 --> 02:45:42,480
Speaker 1: I have I haven't saved for Daniel because it's just

2641
02:45:42,840 --> 02:45:46,960
Speaker 1: it's wild. Doctors in Scotland were concerned about the Queen's

2642
02:45:46,959 --> 02:45:50,160
Speaker 1: health coming um as liszt Trust was making a rather

2643
02:45:50,200 --> 02:45:55,640
Speaker 1: important statement concerning um the future of energy bills UM that,

2644
02:45:55,760 --> 02:45:59,640
Speaker 1: of course insignificant now given the gravity of the situation

2645
02:45:59,680 --> 02:46:04,000
Speaker 1: we see to be experiencing. An old lady died. She

2646
02:46:04,160 --> 02:46:06,560
Speaker 1: was not a very nice old lady. I've known old

2647
02:46:06,640 --> 02:46:09,080
Speaker 1: ladies who were nice that died, and I was sad.

2648
02:46:09,160 --> 02:46:11,400
Speaker 1: I've known old ladies who are night and not nice

2649
02:46:11,400 --> 02:46:14,240
Speaker 1: that died, and I didn't really care in any case,

2650
02:46:14,560 --> 02:46:17,879
Speaker 1: Like it's it's not it's not a big deal because

2651
02:46:17,879 --> 02:46:20,840
Speaker 1: old people like that's what human beings do when they

2652
02:46:20,879 --> 02:46:23,680
Speaker 1: reach ninety six is they die a lot of the time.

2653
02:46:23,760 --> 02:46:26,960
Speaker 1: And it's it's okay, Like it's okay. Queen would see it.

2654
02:46:27,040 --> 02:46:30,360
Speaker 1: Of everything about her, it's fine. Queen Elizabeth was the

2655
02:46:30,480 --> 02:46:34,920
Speaker 1: longest reigning monarch in the history of Britain. Yeah, probably

2656
02:46:35,040 --> 02:46:37,480
Speaker 1: close to the longest. And like maybe Ramsey is the

2657
02:46:37,480 --> 02:46:40,320
Speaker 1: fucking second is up there, like sixty nine years. You

2658
02:46:40,320 --> 02:46:43,000
Speaker 1: don't run into a lot of competition in terms of

2659
02:46:43,120 --> 02:46:53,920
Speaker 1: length of two Yeah, And it's worth a lot of

2660
02:46:53,920 --> 02:46:55,879
Speaker 1: old ladies going to die in Britain this winter because

2661
02:46:55,920 --> 02:47:00,080
Speaker 1: of the okay, And it's also worth knowing you the

2662
02:47:00,160 --> 02:47:02,360
Speaker 1: queen tried to use a bunch of state poverty money

2663
02:47:02,360 --> 02:47:04,960
Speaker 1: that was earmorged for schools, hospitals and low income families

2664
02:47:04,959 --> 02:47:10,280
Speaker 1: to pay bucking camp houses heating bill. Oh wow, Uh yeah,

2665
02:47:10,320 --> 02:47:13,480
Speaker 1: that's that's wild. That's great. Well, you wouldn't want an

2666
02:47:13,480 --> 02:47:15,640
Speaker 1: old woman like that to be out of out in

2667
02:47:15,640 --> 02:47:21,959
Speaker 1: the rain. Because I believe the Crown is States, and

2668
02:47:21,959 --> 02:47:23,760
Speaker 1: I'll have to check this real quickly. I believe the

2669
02:47:23,800 --> 02:47:26,800
Speaker 1: Crown of States did evict people during the COVID nineteen pandemic.

2670
02:47:26,879 --> 02:47:28,640
Speaker 1: Talking of old folks being kicked out into the rain

2671
02:47:31,840 --> 02:47:34,640
Speaker 1: and for for around two weeks after the queen's death,

2672
02:47:34,720 --> 02:47:37,760
Speaker 1: basically all of Britain kind of grinds to a halt um.

2673
02:47:38,080 --> 02:47:41,119
Speaker 1: It's which which would honestly one of the base parts

2674
02:47:41,120 --> 02:47:43,560
Speaker 1: about this is that this does potentially cost the UK

2675
02:47:43,680 --> 02:47:46,840
Speaker 1: economy billions of dollars because they just shut down for

2676
02:47:46,879 --> 02:47:51,840
Speaker 1: two weeks um. So this is like the equivalent of

2677
02:47:51,959 --> 02:47:54,480
Speaker 1: the boat getting stuck in the canal, just the queen dying.

2678
02:47:55,360 --> 02:47:56,680
Speaker 1: I do want to I do want to make a

2679
02:47:56,760 --> 02:48:01,240
Speaker 1: quick note for everybody. The longest reigning, very refiable monarch,

2680
02:48:01,800 --> 02:48:05,039
Speaker 1: according to this Wikipedia page that I just skimmed is

2681
02:48:05,080 --> 02:48:08,000
Speaker 1: so Boosa, the second of Swaziland, which was a British

2682
02:48:08,000 --> 02:48:12,359
Speaker 1: protectorate until nineteen sixty eight. He reigned from eighteen ninety

2683
02:48:12,480 --> 02:48:18,760
Speaker 1: nine to August of nineteen eighty two, two years. So

2684
02:48:19,280 --> 02:48:22,000
Speaker 1: you know what, Elizabeth, not that impressive. I am a

2685
02:48:22,080 --> 02:48:27,600
Speaker 1: Sabooza the second stand now absolute chad ship. The fact

2686
02:48:27,600 --> 02:48:29,520
Speaker 1: that he just snuffed it before he got to see

2687
02:48:29,520 --> 02:48:36,119
Speaker 1: a part tight end very yeah. That is m yeah, wow, yeah,

2688
02:48:36,160 --> 02:48:39,280
Speaker 1: it's just yeah. It's looking at some of the evictions

2689
02:48:39,320 --> 02:48:41,039
Speaker 1: of krown of states have done over the years. You

2690
02:48:41,040 --> 02:48:44,920
Speaker 1: can look it's pretty heartbreaking. Ship. Well luck luckily, Uh,

2691
02:48:45,280 --> 02:48:48,000
Speaker 1: the Queen actually did not die in Buckingham Palace. She

2692
02:48:48,120 --> 02:48:52,680
Speaker 1: died in a castle in Scotland. That's great because Buckingham

2693
02:48:52,720 --> 02:48:56,840
Speaker 1: Palace is a hideous monument of trash like the castle

2694
02:48:56,920 --> 02:49:02,199
Speaker 1: she died. It looks pretty cool that most of the Yeah,

2695
02:49:02,840 --> 02:49:05,480
Speaker 1: one thing you're supposed to get with a monarchy is

2696
02:49:05,520 --> 02:49:08,480
Speaker 1: like really rad looking castles. It is like neat the

2697
02:49:08,520 --> 02:49:13,760
Speaker 1: castles are cool, except for Buckingham Palace, which looks like yeah.

2698
02:49:14,000 --> 02:49:17,200
Speaker 1: So bucking a Palace is a building that dares you

2699
02:49:17,280 --> 02:49:19,320
Speaker 1: to go steal back all of the wealth if they

2700
02:49:19,320 --> 02:49:23,240
Speaker 1: stole from you to build it. So the plan for

2701
02:49:23,320 --> 02:49:26,360
Speaker 1: if the Queen died in this Scottish castle was called

2702
02:49:26,440 --> 02:49:32,400
Speaker 1: Operation Unicorn, which is wild. What is the unicorn? A

2703
02:49:32,959 --> 02:49:36,679
Speaker 1: ninety six year old woman dying is not a unicorn situation?

2704
02:49:36,920 --> 02:49:40,480
Speaker 1: Operations Squirrel or something more? How is this giving a

2705
02:49:40,520 --> 02:49:44,679
Speaker 1: couple of their third I don't get it, I I know, um,

2706
02:49:44,760 --> 02:49:48,200
Speaker 1: So the plan for this type of thing is so

2707
02:49:48,520 --> 02:49:51,800
Speaker 1: the queen died on last Thursday afternoon. It was announced

2708
02:49:51,879 --> 02:49:55,640
Speaker 1: the Friday following Friday morning. After the queen dies, Uh,

2709
02:49:55,720 --> 02:49:59,000
Speaker 1: they call Operation unicorn. They then call, they send like

2710
02:49:59,160 --> 02:50:03,120
Speaker 1: my emergency alerts all the British leaders, um, no, the

2711
02:50:04,040 --> 02:50:07,720
Speaker 1: new Prime Minister who was incredibly funny, um, and you know,

2712
02:50:07,800 --> 02:50:13,240
Speaker 1: all of all these people are notified and then press

2713
02:50:13,320 --> 02:50:17,640
Speaker 1: press gets notified that next morning as as as they did.

2714
02:50:18,440 --> 02:50:21,800
Speaker 1: So staff members in the castles and palaces all got

2715
02:50:21,840 --> 02:50:30,280
Speaker 1: sent home. Um. All parliamentary business gets postponed. Uh, every everything,

2716
02:50:30,440 --> 02:50:33,760
Speaker 1: everything shuts down, which means all of the stuff they

2717
02:50:33,760 --> 02:50:36,160
Speaker 1: were working on on energy bills gets shut down, like

2718
02:50:36,280 --> 02:50:38,480
Speaker 1: they were working on trying to figure out what the

2719
02:50:38,480 --> 02:50:41,120
Speaker 1: funk they're gonna do for this cost increase. All that

2720
02:50:41,160 --> 02:50:47,119
Speaker 1: gets shut down until late September. Um. So that's that's cool. Um.

2721
02:50:47,160 --> 02:50:49,320
Speaker 1: But no, this is actually kind of a unique thing

2722
02:50:49,360 --> 02:50:53,000
Speaker 1: because because of how long Elizabeth reigned, the last death

2723
02:50:53,040 --> 02:50:56,520
Speaker 1: of a monarch was in the fifties, so it's it's

2724
02:50:56,560 --> 02:50:58,880
Speaker 1: been a while since this has happened, so everyone's kind

2725
02:50:58,879 --> 02:51:02,000
Speaker 1: of rusty, like, no, like if we aren't as prepared

2726
02:51:02,440 --> 02:51:05,640
Speaker 1: for this, if if it's okay, My my hope is

2727
02:51:05,680 --> 02:51:08,119
Speaker 1: that we get a couple of we get people get

2728
02:51:08,120 --> 02:51:10,640
Speaker 1: a lot of experience with dead British monarchs in the

2729
02:51:10,680 --> 02:51:15,039
Speaker 1: next decade, King Charles the Third. I don't think we'll

2730
02:51:15,080 --> 02:51:18,280
Speaker 1: be around for too long. Yeah, I've seen that man's hands,

2731
02:51:18,320 --> 02:51:22,440
Speaker 1: and it's here's the thing. Every every time a monarch dies,

2732
02:51:22,480 --> 02:51:24,920
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's like a top down, rolling general strike.

2733
02:51:25,000 --> 02:51:26,440
Speaker 1: So if we get enough of them in a row,

2734
02:51:26,520 --> 02:51:30,080
Speaker 1: we can start doing serious damage to capital. By the way,

2735
02:51:30,520 --> 02:51:33,600
Speaker 1: quick quick note about the chad so Booza, the second

2736
02:51:33,680 --> 02:51:38,760
Speaker 1: of Swazi Land died, died with a thousand grandchildren. Oh

2737
02:51:38,800 --> 02:51:50,800
Speaker 1: my god. Wow, man and always pictured shirtless Elizabeth cannot compete. No,

2738
02:51:51,080 --> 02:51:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm fine without not being the case. Actually, I don't

2739
02:51:53,240 --> 02:51:57,240
Speaker 1: want to see any competion. Yeah, and he probably wasn't

2740
02:51:57,320 --> 02:52:00,160
Speaker 1: racist to any of their partners with no actually you

2741
02:52:00,160 --> 02:52:02,800
Speaker 1: can say about the real families. Here's a neat thing.

2742
02:52:02,959 --> 02:52:06,840
Speaker 1: He and he took all control of all non or

2743
02:52:06,920 --> 02:52:09,840
Speaker 1: of all Swazi land and mineral rights from non Swazi

2744
02:52:09,920 --> 02:52:13,879
Speaker 1: interests that had gained control during colonialism and indigenized all

2745
02:52:13,920 --> 02:52:16,320
Speaker 1: of that, which is dope. So there you go, So

2746
02:52:16,440 --> 02:52:21,160
Speaker 1: boost of the motherfucking second. Yeah, a god, king, I

2747
02:52:21,200 --> 02:52:22,800
Speaker 1: have to go and get injected with a small dose

2748
02:52:22,879 --> 02:52:26,120
Speaker 1: of a disease. Well, let's got everything, but injected in

2749
02:52:26,200 --> 02:52:30,200
Speaker 1: that Chris. Hey, Daniel's back, so let's take an ad break, um,

2750
02:52:30,560 --> 02:52:33,320
Speaker 1: and we'll be back to learn more about the Queen.

2751
02:52:33,480 --> 02:52:34,920
Speaker 1: You know what else will give you a small dose

2752
02:52:34,920 --> 02:52:37,720
Speaker 1: to a disease? That's right, that's right, Yes, these products

2753
02:52:37,760 --> 02:52:39,760
Speaker 1: and services. Yeah, I'll gonna say the Queen of England.

2754
02:52:39,840 --> 02:52:45,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, and we're back. So yeah, it's been a

2755
02:52:45,640 --> 02:52:49,560
Speaker 1: while since since the monarch died. Last time this happened

2756
02:52:49,600 --> 02:52:54,480
Speaker 1: in the fifties, mourners wore black arm bands to show

2757
02:52:54,480 --> 02:52:59,039
Speaker 1: respect for King George. That's the one who was like

2758
02:52:59,320 --> 02:53:02,000
Speaker 1: a big fan of Nazis. Right, But I don't I

2759
02:53:02,040 --> 02:53:04,400
Speaker 1: don't think we're gonna see so I don't think that

2760
02:53:04,440 --> 02:53:06,640
Speaker 1: tradition is going to continue. I doubt we're gonna see

2761
02:53:06,920 --> 02:53:10,600
Speaker 1: a wave of black arm vants. If anyone was going

2762
02:53:10,640 --> 02:53:14,720
Speaker 1: to do it, it would probably be the Anglos. Yeah,

2763
02:53:14,959 --> 02:53:18,200
Speaker 1: I I suppose so yeah, it's uh oh yeah, it

2764
02:53:18,240 --> 02:53:22,000
Speaker 1: was Edward, Edward the Eight who abdicated um and and

2765
02:53:22,040 --> 02:53:25,360
Speaker 1: then was replaced by the guy who you were talking about. Okay,

2766
02:53:25,400 --> 02:53:30,600
Speaker 1: that's the guy like Nazis, Edward the Eighth. So all all, all,

2767
02:53:30,640 --> 02:53:32,560
Speaker 1: all the UK flags are gonna be flown at at

2768
02:53:32,560 --> 02:53:35,440
Speaker 1: half masted until the day of the funeral, and then

2769
02:53:35,520 --> 02:53:36,920
Speaker 1: the day of the funeral is going to be a

2770
02:53:36,920 --> 02:53:40,880
Speaker 1: bank holiday as well. So that's pretty exciting. That's great.

2771
02:53:40,959 --> 02:53:46,960
Speaker 1: I hope that the poor get to eat sweetmeats or something. No, no, again,

2772
02:53:47,160 --> 02:53:51,440
Speaker 1: they're just they're just closing down almost all almost all businesses,

2773
02:53:51,680 --> 02:53:54,360
Speaker 1: almost all businesses in the Okay will close. The Stock

2774
02:53:54,400 --> 02:53:59,040
Speaker 1: Exchange is going to close. Um like on on following

2775
02:53:59,120 --> 02:54:03,600
Speaker 1: present a prince is Diana's death in the late nineties, uh, Britain.

2776
02:54:04,000 --> 02:54:07,160
Speaker 1: Business owners in Britain quote felt that they were quote

2777
02:54:07,520 --> 02:54:10,320
Speaker 1: forced to close their shops or canceled sporting sporting events

2778
02:54:10,320 --> 02:54:13,400
Speaker 1: the day of the funeral lest they feel the rage

2779
02:54:13,640 --> 02:54:19,080
Speaker 1: of the tear stained hordes outside unquote. Yeah, that's an

2780
02:54:19,080 --> 02:54:21,600
Speaker 1: incredible that is an incredibly funny way to talk about

2781
02:54:21,600 --> 02:54:24,160
Speaker 1: monarchist though, like, thank you, thank you, thank you the

2782
02:54:24,200 --> 02:54:29,160
Speaker 1: Guardian for that amazing quote. It's unbelievable, and at least

2783
02:54:29,200 --> 02:54:32,320
Speaker 1: with Diana, it was actually sad like she was a

2784
02:54:32,400 --> 02:54:35,920
Speaker 1: nice person who was badly treated in her life by

2785
02:54:35,959 --> 02:54:39,160
Speaker 1: the royal family and died tragically and young, as opposed

2786
02:54:39,200 --> 02:54:41,720
Speaker 1: to somebody who got everything they want from the day

2787
02:54:41,720 --> 02:54:46,600
Speaker 1: they were born. And died at So then currently they

2788
02:54:46,600 --> 02:54:52,400
Speaker 1: are assembling the quote Ascension Council to formally declare Prince

2789
02:54:52,480 --> 02:54:55,680
Speaker 1: Charles the King, which he's he's already known as King Charles,

2790
02:54:55,680 --> 02:54:58,480
Speaker 1: but you know there's the whole separate formal process. Yeah,

2791
02:54:58,480 --> 02:55:01,560
Speaker 1: because he could pick another name. Still he says he's not.

2792
02:55:01,720 --> 02:55:05,080
Speaker 1: He says he's Oh, he's confirmed. That good because kings

2793
02:55:05,200 --> 02:55:08,800
Speaker 1: king's Charles have a good history in the UK, they

2794
02:55:08,800 --> 02:55:14,000
Speaker 1: don't often get executed. So the Council will make the

2795
02:55:14,080 --> 02:55:17,760
Speaker 1: proclamation of ascension to be to be read on Proclamation

2796
02:55:17,840 --> 02:55:21,520
Speaker 1: Day will be which will be soon after the death um,

2797
02:55:21,560 --> 02:55:26,680
Speaker 1: and that'll be somewhere somewhere in a London. How did

2798
02:55:26,720 --> 02:55:29,640
Speaker 1: you still have all the ship? Like, there's so many

2799
02:55:29,680 --> 02:55:33,800
Speaker 1: weird rituals that they still do. Both houses of Parliament

2800
02:55:33,840 --> 02:55:38,600
Speaker 1: are suspended are suspended until after the official state funeral

2801
02:55:39,400 --> 02:55:42,879
Speaker 1: um and both and and all politicians have to wear

2802
02:55:43,000 --> 02:55:47,480
Speaker 1: new allegiance to the to the newly ascended monarch. This

2803
02:55:47,640 --> 02:55:51,200
Speaker 1: is really like genuinely the world's most pathetic ruling class. Like,

2804
02:55:51,280 --> 02:55:57,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, Jesus Christ, it's pretty funny. You have

2805
02:55:57,200 --> 02:56:01,119
Speaker 1: one job. Well, but also like back in the day

2806
02:56:01,280 --> 02:56:06,360
Speaker 1: before we had monarchs and capitalism. Whenever you know, you

2807
02:56:06,400 --> 02:56:08,800
Speaker 1: had a new coronation, whenever there was something big that

2808
02:56:08,840 --> 02:56:11,520
Speaker 1: happened with the monarchy, the thing they would do is

2809
02:56:11,560 --> 02:56:14,119
Speaker 1: make sure everybody had a shipload of food and nice stuff.

2810
02:56:14,200 --> 02:56:16,680
Speaker 1: The king would give it away. It's all over the world.

2811
02:56:16,720 --> 02:56:19,600
Speaker 1: Cultures would do this. Even you do. Yeah, it's what

2812
02:56:19,640 --> 02:56:21,640
Speaker 1: you do when you come to power. Because they were

2813
02:56:21,680 --> 02:56:24,200
Speaker 1: at least that scared of the people where it's like,

2814
02:56:24,200 --> 02:56:26,840
Speaker 1: all right, I gotta like do something to ring in

2815
02:56:26,840 --> 02:56:29,120
Speaker 1: this rain good so they don't start to wonder, why

2816
02:56:29,120 --> 02:56:30,960
Speaker 1: do we have a king now? So I'm gonna give

2817
02:56:31,000 --> 02:56:33,039
Speaker 1: him a bunch of fucking food and then they'll be like, oh,

2818
02:56:33,080 --> 02:56:34,640
Speaker 1: the king, he's the guy who gives us food every

2819
02:56:34,640 --> 02:56:37,640
Speaker 1: now and then. That's dope. It's amazing now that in

2820
02:56:37,800 --> 02:56:40,000
Speaker 1: the UK it's just like, all right, we've got a

2821
02:56:40,040 --> 02:56:42,240
Speaker 1: new monarch and the old one died, so you guys,

2822
02:56:42,280 --> 02:56:44,000
Speaker 1: a lot of you don't get to eat for a while.

2823
02:56:44,800 --> 02:56:49,400
Speaker 1: So King Charlie seventy three is the oldest person in

2824
02:56:49,440 --> 02:56:53,200
Speaker 1: British history to become king, which is I think a

2825
02:56:53,280 --> 02:56:58,000
Speaker 1: great side, very unsabosed the second of him. And then

2826
02:56:58,000 --> 02:57:01,760
Speaker 1: we're also getting a new queen. Technically, uh, the camella,

2827
02:57:01,920 --> 02:57:04,840
Speaker 1: the Duchess of Cornwall, which again all this sounds made

2828
02:57:04,920 --> 02:57:09,400
Speaker 1: up um is now is now the queen consort um.

2829
02:57:09,600 --> 02:57:14,720
Speaker 1: So that's exciting, that's thrilling. I'm I'm thrilled for a

2830
02:57:14,800 --> 02:57:22,360
Speaker 1: Queen Camilla. It is the Duchess of Cornwall or so

2831
02:57:23,080 --> 02:57:27,320
Speaker 1: and Queen Elizabeth's Queen Elizabeth's coffin is is being prepared

2832
02:57:27,440 --> 02:57:30,280
Speaker 1: to lie in state, meaning it will be presented from

2833
02:57:30,280 --> 02:57:32,640
Speaker 1: the public to view so they can cry on the coffin,

2834
02:57:32,680 --> 02:57:35,280
Speaker 1: which is pretty cool, or crying near the coffin. They

2835
02:57:35,320 --> 02:57:42,680
Speaker 1: don't want the poorest to get too close. So Booza

2836
02:57:42,760 --> 02:57:46,720
Speaker 1: the second turned swasey Land into a major asbestos ex border,

2837
02:57:47,160 --> 02:57:52,720
Speaker 1: which Queen Elizabeth also never did. So wait, so when when?

2838
02:57:52,760 --> 02:57:55,000
Speaker 1: When when the Queen dies, do they like from like?

2839
02:57:55,040 --> 02:57:57,280
Speaker 1: Do they like preserve her from Aldehide or whatever? Do

2840
02:57:57,280 --> 02:58:02,240
Speaker 1: they fancy they've some fancy ass ship because they were

2841
02:58:02,240 --> 02:58:06,560
Speaker 1: probably embalminger while she was alive, says her limbs stopped working,

2842
02:58:06,720 --> 02:58:10,000
Speaker 1: squirting some in. The Queen's body will lie in state

2843
02:58:10,080 --> 02:58:12,240
Speaker 1: until the day of the funeral, will then become a

2844
02:58:12,280 --> 02:58:15,000
Speaker 1: public holiday. There's at least a ten day morning period

2845
02:58:15,120 --> 02:58:18,680
Speaker 1: starting the day after her death, um, and then should

2846
02:58:18,680 --> 02:58:23,240
Speaker 1: be transported to win Westminster Abbey by gun carriage for

2847
02:58:23,280 --> 02:58:26,520
Speaker 1: the state funeral. And then after the funeral she'll be

2848
02:58:26,600 --> 02:58:30,680
Speaker 1: she'll be buried in the King George the Sixth Memorial Chapel.

2849
02:58:32,560 --> 02:58:37,720
Speaker 1: I believe her the body of her late husband, Prince Philip,

2850
02:58:37,840 --> 02:58:40,600
Speaker 1: who died last year, will be moved from the vault

2851
02:58:40,600 --> 02:58:43,959
Speaker 1: that he's currently at to beneath the chapel to join here.

2852
02:58:44,040 --> 02:58:48,520
Speaker 1: So that's pretty funny. Yeah, um, I don't have nothing

2853
02:58:48,560 --> 02:58:50,520
Speaker 1: to say about that other than it's funny that they've

2854
02:58:50,560 --> 02:58:53,760
Speaker 1: just got that dude in a fucking freezer. It's really funny.

2855
02:58:54,879 --> 02:58:59,720
Speaker 1: The new coordination will cost billions of pounds. Oh that's

2856
02:58:59,720 --> 02:59:02,000
Speaker 1: a good because England's like doing great right now. They've

2857
02:59:02,040 --> 02:59:04,560
Speaker 1: got plenty of money for all the necessities. You know,

2858
02:59:04,640 --> 02:59:08,920
Speaker 1: everything's been going well great, cost of livings really down,

2859
02:59:09,160 --> 02:59:12,200
Speaker 1: so it's it's a good idea to spend billions of

2860
02:59:12,200 --> 02:59:15,440
Speaker 1: dollars making a little death cult about this elderly woman

2861
02:59:15,680 --> 02:59:19,280
Speaker 1: that's just like the last like big royal wedding costs

2862
02:59:19,320 --> 02:59:22,720
Speaker 1: between one point two billion and six billion pounds, which

2863
02:59:22,760 --> 02:59:26,840
Speaker 1: is quite quite the quite the spectrum there one two

2864
02:59:26,840 --> 02:59:30,800
Speaker 1: to six billion. That's like, huh, I feel like at

2865
02:59:30,800 --> 02:59:33,400
Speaker 1: that point all money's fake. Like the cost of the

2866
02:59:33,400 --> 02:59:35,720
Speaker 1: coronation is expected to be similar, if not a little

2867
02:59:35,720 --> 02:59:38,280
Speaker 1: bit higher. Right, Yeah, you gotta you gotta spend a

2868
02:59:38,320 --> 02:59:43,280
Speaker 1: lot of money on a coronation for fucking Charles. Uh,

2869
02:59:43,440 --> 02:59:46,360
Speaker 1: so that you can, because that's what real countries do.

2870
02:59:46,480 --> 02:59:50,879
Speaker 1: In two, that's very real country ship. Speaking of money,

2871
02:59:51,280 --> 02:59:55,280
Speaker 1: new currency is already being printed, and in fact that

2872
02:59:55,280 --> 02:59:58,680
Speaker 1: that'll be cheap though, and in fact, uh, portraits of

2873
02:59:58,760 --> 03:00:02,440
Speaker 1: Charles have already been made on currency. There's like a

2874
03:00:02,520 --> 03:00:07,440
Speaker 1: reserve of money depicting the next king, just like it's

2875
03:00:07,480 --> 03:00:10,320
Speaker 1: being stored to like moving in from from when the

2876
03:00:10,400 --> 03:00:13,920
Speaker 1: queen died. It's like lots of this money saved. Just

2877
03:00:13,959 --> 03:00:16,000
Speaker 1: like how funny it would have been if, like six

2878
03:00:16,000 --> 03:00:18,320
Speaker 1: months before this happened, his seventy two year old ass

2879
03:00:18,360 --> 03:00:22,360
Speaker 1: had a heart attack. Have to like burn all that money.

2880
03:00:22,600 --> 03:00:24,879
Speaker 1: They're going to burn all that Charles bucks. He's not

2881
03:00:24,879 --> 03:00:30,680
Speaker 1: gonna be around long. Rice that Britain no longer has

2882
03:00:30,720 --> 03:00:35,560
Speaker 1: the world's reserve currency. Can you imagine? No, we we

2883
03:00:35,640 --> 03:00:40,640
Speaker 1: took on on this network on our various shows, we

2884
03:00:40,640 --> 03:00:43,199
Speaker 1: we spend a lot of time digging into ugly aspects

2885
03:00:43,200 --> 03:00:46,440
Speaker 1: of American history and American culture. But let's all celebrate

2886
03:00:46,480 --> 03:00:49,000
Speaker 1: one thing that I'm legitimately proud of, which is that

2887
03:00:49,120 --> 03:00:51,840
Speaker 1: a long time ago people here were like that seems

2888
03:00:51,840 --> 03:00:55,680
Speaker 1: stupid to let those that family run everything. Why are we?

2889
03:00:55,800 --> 03:00:57,760
Speaker 1: Why are we doing that? Let's get those fuckers out

2890
03:00:57,760 --> 03:01:00,720
Speaker 1: of here? Um, at least we did at although now

2891
03:01:00,720 --> 03:01:02,879
Speaker 1: a bunch of Americans are being fucking boot liquors too,

2892
03:01:03,000 --> 03:01:05,160
Speaker 1: and in Oregon and a bunch of other states, we're

2893
03:01:05,160 --> 03:01:07,240
Speaker 1: putting in these flags at half staff, which, like, you

2894
03:01:07,240 --> 03:01:10,800
Speaker 1: don't know why this country exists. This is the one

2895
03:01:10,920 --> 03:01:13,920
Speaker 1: based thing we did. Yeah. Like, like even the US,

2896
03:01:13,959 --> 03:01:17,400
Speaker 1: which I probably has the most murderous borgeoisie in human history,

2897
03:01:17,440 --> 03:01:20,400
Speaker 1: at least we did our burge Revolution, damnit. Like, at

2898
03:01:20,440 --> 03:01:24,040
Speaker 1: least we destroyed feudalism. So now we're gonna move on

2899
03:01:24,120 --> 03:01:27,720
Speaker 1: to the next segment of the show, entitled an Incomplete

2900
03:01:27,760 --> 03:01:32,520
Speaker 1: List of the politicians, warmongers, generals and otherwise bastards who

2901
03:01:32,600 --> 03:01:37,280
Speaker 1: Queenlis put the second bestowed awards. So I have I

2902
03:01:37,320 --> 03:01:40,640
Speaker 1: have quite the collection of people here. Um, let's let's

2903
03:01:40,640 --> 03:01:46,360
Speaker 1: start with Palestine. So Shimon Perez served as Prime Minister

2904
03:01:46,720 --> 03:01:50,000
Speaker 1: of of of Israel. He got a Nobel Peace Prize

2905
03:01:50,000 --> 03:01:53,800
Speaker 1: in like the nineties for intern key steal that like

2906
03:01:53,879 --> 03:01:55,800
Speaker 1: failed in in the long run to turn into a

2907
03:01:57,320 --> 03:02:01,320
Speaker 1: um for assassinated. No, I don't think. I don't think

2908
03:02:04,760 --> 03:02:06,840
Speaker 1: was the one who you could argue might have deserved

2909
03:02:07,080 --> 03:02:10,720
Speaker 1: an award. He's he. But Perez is kind of known

2910
03:02:10,760 --> 03:02:14,680
Speaker 1: as more of like, uh, a peaceable leader. He's like

2911
03:02:14,959 --> 03:02:19,080
Speaker 1: uh compared to some of his like colleagues, UM, you know,

2912
03:02:19,800 --> 03:02:22,680
Speaker 1: specifically with like the various ethnic cleansings that they do

2913
03:02:22,760 --> 03:02:25,400
Speaker 1: in Palestine. Perez is kind of seen as like the

2914
03:02:25,400 --> 03:02:28,680
Speaker 1: the good guy UM. And then in the mid nineties

2915
03:02:28,720 --> 03:02:31,600
Speaker 1: he was facing a major right wing backlash UM in

2916
03:02:31,720 --> 03:02:34,400
Speaker 1: his home over over the peace deal with the Palestinians

2917
03:02:34,800 --> 03:02:37,400
Speaker 1: UM and in the middle of an election campaign which

2918
03:02:37,400 --> 03:02:39,959
Speaker 1: he was kind of losing. So during this time he

2919
03:02:40,080 --> 03:02:44,959
Speaker 1: unleashed Operation Grapes of Wrath, which caused four dred thousand

2920
03:02:45,240 --> 03:02:47,880
Speaker 1: Lebanese to flee their homes, with almost eight hundred of

2921
03:02:48,200 --> 03:02:52,480
Speaker 1: them fleeing into a United Nations base in uh Kawana.

2922
03:02:52,600 --> 03:02:56,560
Speaker 1: I believe it's called UH in South and South Lebanon,

2923
03:02:57,120 --> 03:03:00,760
Speaker 1: and he didn't really stop there in order to kind

2924
03:03:00,760 --> 03:03:04,560
Speaker 1: of appease the right and Aldrezier calls it UH in

2925
03:03:05,040 --> 03:03:08,480
Speaker 1: an attempt to shore up his military credentials before a

2926
03:03:08,520 --> 03:03:11,480
Speaker 1: general election which he then lost to Benjamin Nett, not Yahoo.

2927
03:03:11,800 --> 03:03:14,880
Speaker 1: He ordered the army to strike this u n A shelter,

2928
03:03:15,400 --> 03:03:19,560
Speaker 1: killing a hundred and two civilians, mostly women and children.

2929
03:03:20,400 --> 03:03:23,240
Speaker 1: AH At the time of the attack, Peres said that

2930
03:03:23,360 --> 03:03:26,160
Speaker 1: in my opinion, everything was done according to clear logic

2931
03:03:26,240 --> 03:03:29,280
Speaker 1: and in a responsible way. I am at peace. UM.

2932
03:03:29,560 --> 03:03:31,920
Speaker 1: Perez said that the compound had been hit due to

2933
03:03:32,200 --> 03:03:36,000
Speaker 1: an incorrect targeting based on erroneous data, but the United

2934
03:03:36,040 --> 03:03:40,560
Speaker 1: Nations investigations found it unlikely that the shelling was unintentional

2935
03:03:41,240 --> 03:03:44,240
Speaker 1: because they were severing the area heavily beforehand. So he

2936
03:03:44,280 --> 03:03:46,680
Speaker 1: did he didn't. He did this massacre, killed like a

2937
03:03:46,800 --> 03:03:50,440
Speaker 1: hundred a hundred people to boost his polls for the

2938
03:03:50,520 --> 03:03:55,160
Speaker 1: right wingers in this election. UM November two, as an eight,

2939
03:03:55,320 --> 03:04:00,080
Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth awarded him with an honorary knighthood. He as

2940
03:04:00,120 --> 03:04:04,040
Speaker 1: knighted in the Grand Cross of the Order of St.

2941
03:04:04,120 --> 03:04:08,520
Speaker 1: Michael and St. George, and during his knighthood. Like that day,

2942
03:04:08,959 --> 03:04:13,240
Speaker 1: Perez spoke to the Queen about the escalating Israeli Palestine conflict,

2943
03:04:13,600 --> 03:04:17,160
Speaker 1: saying that quote, the British learned from the Bible, and

2944
03:04:17,320 --> 03:04:21,800
Speaker 1: we learned from the British democracy. Earlier that year, I

2945
03:04:21,879 --> 03:04:25,240
Speaker 1: d F launched Operation hot Winter, a military campaign targeting

2946
03:04:25,240 --> 03:04:27,280
Speaker 1: the Gaza Strip in response to a series of Homoss

2947
03:04:27,400 --> 03:04:32,000
Speaker 1: rockets that killed one forty seven year old Asraeli student

2948
03:04:32,560 --> 03:04:35,040
Speaker 1: um which that attack was in response to the I

2949
03:04:35,120 --> 03:04:37,480
Speaker 1: d S killing eight Home Mass members earlier that month.

2950
03:04:37,800 --> 03:04:40,480
Speaker 1: But during during the I d S Operation Hot Winter,

2951
03:04:41,200 --> 03:04:45,080
Speaker 1: one hundred and ten Palestinians were killed, fifty four of

2952
03:04:45,120 --> 03:04:48,440
Speaker 1: them were children. Uh. And then a month, just one

2953
03:04:48,480 --> 03:04:52,000
Speaker 1: month after Perez was knighted, the two Essanate Gazo War

2954
03:04:52,520 --> 03:04:54,959
Speaker 1: broke out, also known as the Gaza Massacre, and that

2955
03:04:55,000 --> 03:04:56,879
Speaker 1: was started by the I d F, who called it

2956
03:04:56,920 --> 03:05:01,000
Speaker 1: Operation cast lead a three week large scale military campaign

2957
03:05:01,000 --> 03:05:04,920
Speaker 1: in the Gaza Strip. The massacre resulted in uh in

2958
03:05:05,800 --> 03:05:11,039
Speaker 1: like one thousand and four hundred Palestinian deaths and thirteen

2959
03:05:11,440 --> 03:05:15,400
Speaker 1: Israeli deaths, four from friendly fire. Um so it's just

2960
03:05:15,520 --> 03:05:20,640
Speaker 1: a Massacreeah. Yeah. So that that that was like a

2961
03:05:20,680 --> 03:05:24,920
Speaker 1: few weeks after, after Queen Elizabeth knighted knighted the then

2962
03:05:25,000 --> 03:05:29,440
Speaker 1: President of of of of of Israel, who previously served

2963
03:05:29,480 --> 03:05:31,200
Speaker 1: as the Prime Minister, which is more of like a

2964
03:05:31,240 --> 03:05:34,360
Speaker 1: real rule. UM. Anyway, moving on to more fun people.

2965
03:05:35,120 --> 03:05:39,280
Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty nine, Queen Elizabeth awarded Ronald Reagan with an

2966
03:05:39,280 --> 03:05:45,880
Speaker 1: honorary knighthood. UM. Now, thankfully, the way honorary knight Knighthood's

2967
03:05:45,920 --> 03:05:49,280
Speaker 1: work is. You don't become a sir because sir is

2968
03:05:49,280 --> 03:05:53,119
Speaker 1: a title reserved for people from Britain. I'm not mistaken.

2969
03:05:53,200 --> 03:05:56,080
Speaker 1: You can't hold office in the United States if you

2970
03:05:56,160 --> 03:05:59,080
Speaker 1: are a knight. Oh I wouldn't. I think it's an

2971
03:05:59,120 --> 03:06:02,760
Speaker 1: old rule we have. Yeah, I reading something about that. Yeah, yeah, No,

2972
03:06:02,760 --> 03:06:05,400
Speaker 1: I think isn't it No, it's not in the Constitution,

2973
03:06:05,560 --> 03:06:09,880
Speaker 1: but there's something about Yeah, but it's a it's a

2974
03:06:10,360 --> 03:06:12,959
Speaker 1: even though you know, you can't become a sir because

2975
03:06:12,959 --> 03:06:15,720
Speaker 1: you're not from Britain. Um you okay, here we go.

2976
03:06:15,879 --> 03:06:19,119
Speaker 1: No title of nobility. This is Article one, Section nine

2977
03:06:19,160 --> 03:06:22,160
Speaker 1: closet of the Constitution is no constitution Yeah, no title

2978
03:06:22,200 --> 03:06:24,400
Speaker 1: of nobility shall be granted by the United States, and

2979
03:06:24,400 --> 03:06:27,080
Speaker 1: no person holding any office of profit or trust under

2980
03:06:27,120 --> 03:06:29,400
Speaker 1: them shall without the consent of the Congress, except of

2981
03:06:29,440 --> 03:06:32,640
Speaker 1: any present emolument, office, or title of any kind whatsoever,

2982
03:06:32,680 --> 03:06:36,520
Speaker 1: from any King, prince, or foreign state. Fascinating. Yeah, So,

2983
03:06:36,680 --> 03:06:39,200
Speaker 1: like again, the people who made this country, for all

2984
03:06:39,240 --> 03:06:42,200
Speaker 1: of their flaws, looked at the British monarchy and we're like,

2985
03:06:42,400 --> 03:06:51,320
Speaker 1: that's fucking nuts. Well, because because because Reagan was was

2986
03:06:51,480 --> 03:06:55,480
Speaker 1: night was received on airy nighthood. The one benefit he

2987
03:06:55,520 --> 03:06:58,640
Speaker 1: does get is that at dinner parties, Reagan was able

2988
03:06:58,720 --> 03:07:02,720
Speaker 1: to sit closer to the queen than the unknighted former presidents.

2989
03:07:03,440 --> 03:07:07,080
Speaker 1: That's good. I'm glad that we have to. Like, honestly,

2990
03:07:07,320 --> 03:07:13,280
Speaker 1: look again, I hate like like America flex shit, but

2991
03:07:13,360 --> 03:07:16,000
Speaker 1: I feel like any president of the US should be

2992
03:07:16,040 --> 03:07:18,680
Speaker 1: able to pull up Ryker style, flip a chair around,

2993
03:07:18,720 --> 03:07:20,560
Speaker 1: sit down next to you you, and say, look, we've been

2994
03:07:20,560 --> 03:07:23,360
Speaker 1: pulling your ass out of the fire for the last century. Like,

2995
03:07:23,440 --> 03:07:25,680
Speaker 1: you don't get to fucking make me sit somewhere. I'm

2996
03:07:25,720 --> 03:07:28,400
Speaker 1: the president of the United States and you're a doddering

2997
03:07:28,480 --> 03:07:32,240
Speaker 1: old queen of a fucking third rate power. Um. I

2998
03:07:32,280 --> 03:07:35,640
Speaker 1: hate that. I just went like, full fucking whatever they're

2999
03:07:35,720 --> 03:07:40,959
Speaker 1: But honestly, that's fucking ridiculous. It's like like maybe maybe

3000
03:07:41,000 --> 03:07:44,200
Speaker 1: maybe the only country ever that the US gets moral superiority.

3001
03:07:45,760 --> 03:07:48,879
Speaker 1: It's like, is the British Empire? Like don't you don't

3002
03:07:49,000 --> 03:07:54,440
Speaker 1: like what? Seriously, lady, unbelievable. One other president who was

3003
03:07:54,520 --> 03:07:58,879
Speaker 1: knighted was George H. W. Bush, who was knighted into

3004
03:07:59,320 --> 03:08:04,160
Speaker 1: the Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath. Well,

3005
03:08:04,879 --> 03:08:06,840
Speaker 1: he did look like he could use one a lot

3006
03:08:06,840 --> 03:08:12,600
Speaker 1: of the time, where a rarely awarded top order of knighthoods.

3007
03:08:13,000 --> 03:08:18,640
Speaker 1: I'm glad he got that. British officials said that the

3008
03:08:18,720 --> 03:08:22,720
Speaker 1: knighthood marked the close relationship between the Republican president and

3009
03:08:22,800 --> 03:08:27,560
Speaker 1: Britain's conservative government, particularly during the Gulf War. Um. Yeah,

3010
03:08:27,600 --> 03:08:30,440
Speaker 1: that was a real moment of of of trial and

3011
03:08:30,520 --> 03:08:34,040
Speaker 1: tragedy for the British royal family. They had they had

3012
03:08:34,040 --> 03:08:37,039
Speaker 1: to sit there and watch they were burned, conscripts alive,

3013
03:08:37,480 --> 03:08:40,520
Speaker 1: and they were really at risk there. I'm gonna quote

3014
03:08:40,520 --> 03:08:43,760
Speaker 1: from the book Royal Babylon by English poet and activist

3015
03:08:43,879 --> 03:08:48,080
Speaker 1: Heathcote Williams quote the fact that each US president's record,

3016
03:08:48,160 --> 03:08:51,400
Speaker 1: without exception, would earn them seats on the dock at

3017
03:08:51,480 --> 03:08:54,760
Speaker 1: Nuremberg or at the International Criminal Court on genocide charges

3018
03:08:55,080 --> 03:08:58,360
Speaker 1: doesn't deter the royal family from honoring them. For by

3019
03:08:58,480 --> 03:09:02,480
Speaker 1: an ironic twist, each US president morphs into George the Third,

3020
03:09:02,800 --> 03:09:06,440
Speaker 1: against whom their forebearers fought. Which is a nice and

3021
03:09:06,520 --> 03:09:10,360
Speaker 1: nice and nice little quote by by this this this English,

3022
03:09:10,400 --> 03:09:13,120
Speaker 1: this English writer and the pretty good book Royal Babylon

3023
03:09:13,160 --> 03:09:14,560
Speaker 1: if you want to if you want to learn about

3024
03:09:14,879 --> 03:09:17,879
Speaker 1: how fucked up the monarchy is, uh, this is a

3025
03:09:17,920 --> 03:09:22,520
Speaker 1: pretty a pretty fun book. Um, let's see who else

3026
03:09:22,600 --> 03:09:25,400
Speaker 1: who else should be? Uh, who else should be? Let's

3027
03:09:25,480 --> 03:09:32,080
Speaker 1: let's talk about Norman schwartz and Covs Schwartzkof. Norman Schwartzkof,

3028
03:09:32,120 --> 03:09:33,880
Speaker 1: he was the head of the He was the guy

3029
03:09:33,920 --> 03:09:38,480
Speaker 1: who actually like ran the Desert Storm campaign. Yes, he

3030
03:09:38,680 --> 03:09:42,920
Speaker 1: said that the dead iraqis quote warn't worth counting and

3031
03:09:43,040 --> 03:09:46,600
Speaker 1: among like casualties of war and that quote, I want

3032
03:09:46,680 --> 03:09:51,000
Speaker 1: every Iraqi soldier bleeding from every orifice. Yeah, it's uh,

3033
03:09:51,040 --> 03:09:53,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Schwartzkof was a guy who fought

3034
03:09:53,600 --> 03:09:56,800
Speaker 1: in Vietnam and took the loss hard, and I think

3035
03:09:56,959 --> 03:09:59,760
Speaker 1: he a big part of why, big part of what

3036
03:09:59,840 --> 03:10:02,360
Speaker 1: was going on with Desert Storm was a desire to

3037
03:10:02,400 --> 03:10:06,640
Speaker 1: quote unquote reclaim like our military pride by beating the

3038
03:10:06,640 --> 03:10:10,080
Speaker 1: ship out of a smaller country. Um, which is not

3039
03:10:10,160 --> 03:10:12,400
Speaker 1: to say that like I don't believe there was Like

3040
03:10:12,640 --> 03:10:15,320
Speaker 1: Iraq had invaded a neighbor and occupied it. That's bad,

3041
03:10:15,400 --> 03:10:17,840
Speaker 1: something should have been done. But the whole, the whole

3042
03:10:17,879 --> 03:10:21,400
Speaker 1: like masturbatory. I want all of their fucking conscript soldiers,

3043
03:10:21,400 --> 03:10:26,760
Speaker 1: these like teenage kids to die. Is is like sick lunacy,

3044
03:10:26,840 --> 03:10:29,879
Speaker 1: as was the masturbation over the anywhere whatever. We don't

3045
03:10:29,879 --> 03:10:32,480
Speaker 1: need to talk about the Gulf War here. He was anyway,

3046
03:10:32,760 --> 03:10:35,400
Speaker 1: he was. He also received a knighthood after all of

3047
03:10:35,400 --> 03:10:40,080
Speaker 1: that stuff, which is fun. Also, Elizabeth gave a knighthood

3048
03:10:40,280 --> 03:10:44,959
Speaker 1: to Colin Powell, Um, who facilitated, covered up, and justified

3049
03:10:45,160 --> 03:10:49,480
Speaker 1: many US war crimes in Vietnam. Hey hey, Garrison facilitated

3050
03:10:49,520 --> 03:10:56,800
Speaker 1: cover ups. Yes, yeah, most famously my Lie. Yes, the

3051
03:10:56,840 --> 03:10:59,520
Speaker 1: my Lie massacre is the biggest thing that he was

3052
03:10:59,840 --> 03:11:03,680
Speaker 1: that he was involved in. There were others. He also

3053
03:11:03,720 --> 03:11:06,360
Speaker 1: like that guy. I think he's like like the thing.

3054
03:11:06,360 --> 03:11:09,520
Speaker 1: I think it'sportant. He is probably the one person on

3055
03:11:09,680 --> 03:11:12,400
Speaker 1: earth in the Bush administration who could have stopped the

3056
03:11:12,400 --> 03:11:15,680
Speaker 1: Iraq war if he wanted to and he didn't like

3057
03:11:15,800 --> 03:11:18,120
Speaker 1: he he he knew that it was all bullshit, and

3058
03:11:18,120 --> 03:11:20,880
Speaker 1: he's like, nah, fuck it, let's do this. I'm gonna

3059
03:11:20,920 --> 03:11:24,040
Speaker 1: go lie to the U N. Quoting Powell, we burned

3060
03:11:24,120 --> 03:11:27,440
Speaker 1: down the thatched huts, starting the blaze with ronson and

3061
03:11:27,480 --> 03:11:31,280
Speaker 1: zippo lighters. Why were we torching houses and destroying crops?

3062
03:11:31,560 --> 03:11:34,320
Speaker 1: Ho Chi Ming said that his people were like the

3063
03:11:34,400 --> 03:11:37,760
Speaker 1: sea in which guerrillas swarm. We tried to solve the

3064
03:11:37,800 --> 03:11:41,320
Speaker 1: problem by making the whole sea uninhabitable. In the hard

3065
03:11:41,360 --> 03:11:43,200
Speaker 1: logic of war, what difference does it make if you

3066
03:11:43,240 --> 03:11:47,680
Speaker 1: shot your enemy or starved him to death? So anyway,

3067
03:11:47,959 --> 03:11:51,199
Speaker 1: best night, night night, Colin Powell. So true, So true,

3068
03:11:51,280 --> 03:11:56,760
Speaker 1: Buddy um probably the least problematic person among this list.

3069
03:11:55,959 --> 03:12:00,760
Speaker 1: In the Queen approved on an airing right hood to

3070
03:12:00,959 --> 03:12:04,640
Speaker 1: a former U. S Secretary of State. Uh with Henry

3071
03:12:05,120 --> 03:12:09,520
Speaker 1: kiss kiss Ainger Kissing Kissinger. Yeah, he was. He was

3072
03:12:09,560 --> 03:12:11,800
Speaker 1: just kind of a functionary, very not not a big deal.

3073
03:12:11,800 --> 03:12:14,280
Speaker 1: We should probably, I think, I think that's how it's pronounced.

3074
03:12:14,680 --> 03:12:18,680
Speaker 1: He was. He was appointed an Honoring Night Commander in

3075
03:12:18,760 --> 03:12:22,840
Speaker 1: the Most Distinguished Order of St. Michael and St. George.

3076
03:12:23,640 --> 03:12:31,640
Speaker 1: This is Christ's so funny. We must applaud the British

3077
03:12:31,640 --> 03:12:34,640
Speaker 1: for for for for honoring the most popular American in China.

3078
03:12:35,920 --> 03:12:41,800
Speaker 1: It's a very progressive decision for her. Yes Kissinger. Uh,

3079
03:12:42,160 --> 03:12:46,240
Speaker 1: I think a few of Kissinger's assistants also got unknighted.

3080
03:12:46,600 --> 03:12:53,400
Speaker 1: Uh Brent Scrollcroft scout Croft scout Croft, Um, he got

3081
03:12:53,480 --> 03:12:56,640
Speaker 1: he got knighted. Uh. I think people from the Iron

3082
03:12:56,720 --> 03:13:01,480
Speaker 1: contra drugs and arms affair stuff got knighted. H. There

3083
03:13:01,520 --> 03:13:04,960
Speaker 1: was a lot of like war criminal dudes got knighted

3084
03:13:05,000 --> 03:13:08,800
Speaker 1: in this in this like late nineties period. I wonder

3085
03:13:08,840 --> 03:13:12,720
Speaker 1: what was going on there also, Uh, j Edgar Hoover

3086
03:13:13,160 --> 03:13:20,160
Speaker 1: was was was knighted of, which is pretty funny. And

3087
03:13:20,200 --> 03:13:25,800
Speaker 1: then uh the the economic uh financier who endorsed uh

3088
03:13:26,400 --> 03:13:29,120
Speaker 1: really bad derivatives to make the housing bubble kind of

3089
03:13:29,160 --> 03:13:33,600
Speaker 1: blow up. Alan Greenspan another American. Oh he also green

3090
03:13:33,680 --> 03:13:38,920
Speaker 1: Span Like he's a horrible person. That that man, that

3091
03:13:39,080 --> 03:13:42,600
Speaker 1: man has killed more people than most generals. Like he

3092
03:13:42,760 --> 03:13:47,160
Speaker 1: has Oh boy, yeah he is. He is pretty bad. Um.

3093
03:13:48,080 --> 03:13:49,680
Speaker 1: I think I think we can do an ad break

3094
03:13:49,720 --> 03:13:51,760
Speaker 1: and then James is going to join us again. Uh

3095
03:13:51,879 --> 03:13:57,160
Speaker 1: to finish up by talking about Ireland and Kenya. Um,

3096
03:13:58,000 --> 03:14:02,000
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of stuff in Ireland and Kenya.

3097
03:14:02,959 --> 03:14:06,160
Speaker 1: So anyway, do you know who won't receive a knighthood

3098
03:14:06,200 --> 03:14:10,680
Speaker 1: by Queen Elizabeth? That's these products and services Because I

3099
03:14:10,760 --> 03:14:12,720
Speaker 1: was going to say Queen Elizabeth because she's too dead

3100
03:14:12,800 --> 03:14:16,000
Speaker 1: to take that's a joke. She can't give them a

3101
03:14:16,080 --> 03:14:20,360
Speaker 1: nighthead because she's dead. Here's the adds, very funny. Ah,

3102
03:14:20,520 --> 03:14:22,840
Speaker 1: we're back, and you know I need to keep the

3103
03:14:22,920 --> 03:14:26,280
Speaker 1: audience informed about important network business for cool Zone, so

3104
03:14:26,320 --> 03:14:28,640
Speaker 1: I want to let you all know that. As he

3105
03:14:28,760 --> 03:14:32,640
Speaker 1: was coming back from getting his shot, James texted us, all, Okay,

3106
03:14:32,760 --> 03:14:35,440
Speaker 1: I'll be on in one sex and there's a lot

3107
03:14:35,480 --> 03:14:38,080
Speaker 1: of jokes that we could make about that as as

3108
03:14:38,080 --> 03:14:40,000
Speaker 1: a network, and I'm not going to make them, but

3109
03:14:40,040 --> 03:14:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna urge you to make them yourself in your

3110
03:14:42,879 --> 03:14:45,520
Speaker 1: own heart and head and then tweet them to James.

3111
03:14:46,920 --> 03:14:50,040
Speaker 1: James is at, James is At, I write okay on Twitter,

3112
03:14:50,760 --> 03:14:53,440
Speaker 1: that's my Twitter handle. I wrote, okay, you can see

3113
03:14:53,440 --> 03:14:57,440
Speaker 1: a picture of me. That's anyway. Uh So we're not

3114
03:14:57,480 --> 03:15:02,240
Speaker 1: gonna talk about mainly me. Two places where British colonialism

3115
03:15:02,320 --> 03:15:07,120
Speaker 1: and imperialism had devastating effects under Queen Elizabeth and a

3116
03:15:07,200 --> 03:15:10,880
Speaker 1: few a few uh, pretty pretty evil people that that

3117
03:15:10,959 --> 03:15:15,480
Speaker 1: Elizabeth then also united. Uh who were doing who were

3118
03:15:15,520 --> 03:15:18,959
Speaker 1: like directly doing this British colonialism. Uh, let's talk about

3119
03:15:19,000 --> 03:15:22,640
Speaker 1: Kenya a little bit. So during the nineteen fifties, British

3120
03:15:22,680 --> 03:15:26,360
Speaker 1: tried to get control of lands in Kenya that they

3121
03:15:26,600 --> 03:15:28,640
Speaker 1: that they had violently. They were trying to trying to

3122
03:15:28,720 --> 03:15:31,879
Speaker 1: keep keep control of land that they had previously stolen. Um.

3123
03:15:32,480 --> 03:15:36,120
Speaker 1: Native Kenyans fought back in the Mau Mau uprising. Now

3124
03:15:36,240 --> 03:15:41,240
Speaker 1: has we've historians Historians have documented widespread torture by British forces,

3125
03:15:41,400 --> 03:15:46,400
Speaker 1: including crushing of testicles with pliers um and the internment

3126
03:15:46,680 --> 03:15:49,200
Speaker 1: of up to three d and twenty thousand people in

3127
03:15:49,320 --> 03:15:55,440
Speaker 1: concentration camps where they then endured slavery, starvation, murder and rape,

3128
03:15:56,120 --> 03:16:00,200
Speaker 1: rape with blunt objects. Um. Meanwhile, one point five lean

3129
03:16:00,280 --> 03:16:04,120
Speaker 1: Kenyans were confined to a network of detention camps and

3130
03:16:04,480 --> 03:16:10,720
Speaker 1: heavily patrolled villages, as documented by a historian Caroline Elkins

3131
03:16:10,840 --> 03:16:15,720
Speaker 1: in her Pulitzer wise winning Britain's gulog. So this this,

3132
03:16:15,879 --> 03:16:18,680
Speaker 1: this was all overseen by the Queen as the head

3133
03:16:18,720 --> 03:16:21,600
Speaker 1: of state and by the way, she was thirty one.

3134
03:16:21,640 --> 03:16:24,520
Speaker 1: At this point, you don't you don't get to say, well,

3135
03:16:24,640 --> 03:16:26,640
Speaker 1: she just come and you know, I was just listening

3136
03:16:26,680 --> 03:16:29,879
Speaker 1: to her advisors. At thirty one years old. You are young,

3137
03:16:30,120 --> 03:16:33,000
Speaker 1: but you are old enough to not be complicit in

3138
03:16:33,040 --> 03:16:35,920
Speaker 1: a genocide. Yeah, especially when you're the head of state. Like,

3139
03:16:36,000 --> 03:16:39,800
Speaker 1: come on, as the Queen of England, she had some leverage.

3140
03:16:40,520 --> 03:16:42,880
Speaker 1: She is not like, oh, you came at you worked,

3141
03:16:42,920 --> 03:16:46,920
Speaker 1: You were a tax collector in fucking South fucking Shire, England,

3142
03:16:47,000 --> 03:16:49,320
Speaker 1: and you happened to be in doing that job when

3143
03:16:49,360 --> 03:16:51,320
Speaker 1: the Mau Mau we're being suppressed. No, no, no, she

3144
03:16:51,480 --> 03:16:54,240
Speaker 1: was and she she she knew about stuff was going on,

3145
03:16:54,320 --> 03:16:57,560
Speaker 1: was heavily involved because she was giving out like she

3146
03:16:57,760 --> 03:17:01,199
Speaker 1: was working with people who were doing the like, agreed

3147
03:17:01,280 --> 03:17:05,720
Speaker 1: to things um. According to Kenya's biggest newspaper, The Daily Nation,

3148
03:17:06,440 --> 03:17:10,400
Speaker 1: a British policeman named Ian Henderson was known in Kenya

3149
03:17:10,560 --> 03:17:14,560
Speaker 1: as the torturer in chief and was the kind of

3150
03:17:14,840 --> 03:17:17,440
Speaker 1: the the guy behind preparing a whole bunch of bogus

3151
03:17:17,480 --> 03:17:21,240
Speaker 1: evidence in the nineteen fifty three trial where six leading

3152
03:17:21,360 --> 03:17:25,760
Speaker 1: Mao Mao Uprising figures were convicted UM, including the future

3153
03:17:25,920 --> 03:17:29,800
Speaker 1: first president of independent Kenya now Queenlis but the second

3154
03:17:30,000 --> 03:17:33,680
Speaker 1: honored Ian Henderson again the Torturer in Chief, with the

3155
03:17:33,800 --> 03:17:39,240
Speaker 1: George Medal, Britain's highest civilian award, in September of nineteen

3156
03:17:39,440 --> 03:17:43,200
Speaker 1: fifty four for his work in Kenya. Because this is important,

3157
03:17:43,240 --> 03:17:45,920
Speaker 1: Like he wasn't military, he was just a policeman, which

3158
03:17:45,959 --> 03:17:49,280
Speaker 1: is why he gets a civilian award. Um. But like

3159
03:17:49,480 --> 03:17:52,160
Speaker 1: she knew what was going on was giving out individual

3160
03:17:52,240 --> 03:17:56,320
Speaker 1: police officers awards for their roles in crushing the crushing

3161
03:17:56,560 --> 03:17:59,560
Speaker 1: these uh independent uprisings. You know who never would have

3162
03:17:59,640 --> 03:18:03,040
Speaker 1: done that is supposed of the second absolute clown. I

3163
03:18:03,680 --> 03:18:06,600
Speaker 1: I do not know enough of the second I don't

3164
03:18:06,640 --> 03:18:10,800
Speaker 1: know how he acquired one thousand grandchildren. I'm not look

3165
03:18:11,040 --> 03:18:13,480
Speaker 1: to be fair, there's probably some shady ship and so

3166
03:18:13,600 --> 03:18:17,040
Speaker 1: boost of the seconds rain. But the main thing he

3167
03:18:17,160 --> 03:18:21,720
Speaker 1: was known for was taking back control of Swaziland's indigenous industries,

3168
03:18:21,800 --> 03:18:25,080
Speaker 1: being a good neighbor to the other African countries once

3169
03:18:25,120 --> 03:18:28,240
Speaker 1: they gained their independence, and of course exporting a shipload

3170
03:18:28,280 --> 03:18:33,560
Speaker 1: of asbestos. So and any any other notes on on Kenya. Yeah,

3171
03:18:33,680 --> 03:18:36,160
Speaker 1: so just before I do want to like just briefly

3172
03:18:36,400 --> 03:18:39,800
Speaker 1: raised that, like elkins um it was that was a

3173
03:18:39,959 --> 03:18:43,080
Speaker 1: very unconventional and a very good book for young academic

3174
03:18:43,200 --> 03:18:45,200
Speaker 1: and she deserved a credit for writing it. In the

3175
03:18:45,360 --> 03:18:48,040
Speaker 1: process of writing that book and then trying to write

3176
03:18:48,040 --> 03:18:51,520
Speaker 1: her second book, obviously she dealt with a lot of

3177
03:18:51,520 --> 03:18:55,080
Speaker 1: backlash from rank her first book, she uncovered that Britain

3178
03:18:55,200 --> 03:19:01,439
Speaker 1: had hidden, classified, destroyed and refused to disclose a mountain

3179
03:19:01,520 --> 03:19:05,320
Speaker 1: of records about its colonial crimes in Kenya. And this

3180
03:19:05,520 --> 03:19:07,600
Speaker 1: is like an ongoing issue that goes on into the

3181
03:19:07,680 --> 03:19:10,720
Speaker 1: twenty teams that there were public records court cases about this.

3182
03:19:11,120 --> 03:19:14,480
Speaker 1: And it's so like we we can see that, like

3183
03:19:14,840 --> 03:19:16,520
Speaker 1: it's wrong to say that this is like a just

3184
03:19:16,760 --> 03:19:20,680
Speaker 1: a relic of another era, Right, Britain is has continued

3185
03:19:21,240 --> 03:19:24,200
Speaker 1: into this era. Like the ideology of the government from

3186
03:19:24,240 --> 03:19:27,039
Speaker 1: them to now is actually indistinguishable. Right, it's it's near

3187
03:19:27,080 --> 03:19:32,520
Speaker 1: liberal conservatives. They have continued to hide rather than face

3188
03:19:33,000 --> 03:19:36,240
Speaker 1: justice for these crimes. Right, rather than say sorry, rather

3189
03:19:36,240 --> 03:19:38,440
Speaker 1: than say what we did was wrong, they've tried to

3190
03:19:38,520 --> 03:19:41,920
Speaker 1: cover up this ship. And like we we need to

3191
03:19:42,200 --> 03:19:44,280
Speaker 1: remember that when we talk about like this is not

3192
03:19:44,360 --> 03:19:47,920
Speaker 1: a crime of the past, these are ongoing acts of genocide.

3193
03:19:47,920 --> 03:19:50,520
Speaker 1: And genocide denial that we keep doing. Yeah, as you mention,

3194
03:19:50,959 --> 03:19:53,520
Speaker 1: so I think we're talking on Operation Legacy als. Also

3195
03:19:53,560 --> 03:19:55,400
Speaker 1: there are a bunch of different instances of the British

3196
03:19:55,440 --> 03:19:58,320
Speaker 1: government like destroying other records. One of the other fun

3197
03:19:58,400 --> 03:19:59,920
Speaker 1: things they were covered they seen to have and cover

3198
03:20:00,080 --> 03:20:01,640
Speaker 1: ing up and we don't we don't know exactly what

3199
03:20:01,800 --> 03:20:03,480
Speaker 1: was in those records because again they were just like

3200
03:20:03,680 --> 03:20:07,039
Speaker 1: they were destroyed. Um. But one of the other things

3201
03:20:07,080 --> 03:20:09,400
Speaker 1: that was in this record is about a second time

3202
03:20:09,560 --> 03:20:11,840
Speaker 1: that that the UK put a bunch of people in

3203
03:20:11,879 --> 03:20:15,039
Speaker 1: concentration camps while Queen Elizabeth was president, which was they

3204
03:20:15,080 --> 03:20:17,080
Speaker 1: did this. They also did this in Malaysia. They put

3205
03:20:17,160 --> 03:20:20,000
Speaker 1: a million president. They did this. They did this in

3206
03:20:20,080 --> 03:20:23,640
Speaker 1: a film. Sorry she was while she was clown president,

3207
03:20:23,760 --> 03:20:27,400
Speaker 1: which is to say, just to say, Queen, we're gonna

3208
03:20:27,440 --> 03:20:31,400
Speaker 1: actually be talking about Malaysia in justice sac that was

3209
03:20:31,480 --> 03:20:38,000
Speaker 1: an emergency on awards. Yeah, so so uh Ian Henderson,

3210
03:20:38,160 --> 03:20:41,280
Speaker 1: the torture in chief who received this award obviously had

3211
03:20:41,320 --> 03:20:45,160
Speaker 1: to leave Kenya shortly after the fifties because things happened,

3212
03:20:45,680 --> 03:20:50,440
Speaker 1: um and then he got he got moved to Bahrain

3213
03:20:51,120 --> 03:20:54,760
Speaker 1: um and during a wave of pro independence revolts in Bahrain.

3214
03:20:55,160 --> 03:20:59,760
Speaker 1: In nineteen eight, h Henderson was appointed the head of

3215
03:20:59,879 --> 03:21:06,040
Speaker 1: the Secret Police and served as so until um and

3216
03:21:06,240 --> 03:21:08,520
Speaker 1: over the course of his tenure he became known as

3217
03:21:08,680 --> 03:21:14,200
Speaker 1: the Butcher of Bahrain, quoting the Guardian quote. During his time,

3218
03:21:14,480 --> 03:21:18,760
Speaker 1: his men allegedly detained and tortured thousands of anti government activists.

3219
03:21:19,120 --> 03:21:22,240
Speaker 1: Their activities are said to have included the ransacking of villages,

3220
03:21:22,600 --> 03:21:27,360
Speaker 1: sadistic sexual abuse, and using power drills to name prisoners.

3221
03:21:27,840 --> 03:21:30,840
Speaker 1: On many accasions, there have said to detain children without

3222
03:21:30,879 --> 03:21:34,280
Speaker 1: informing their parents, only to return them months later in

3223
03:21:34,440 --> 03:21:38,280
Speaker 1: body bags unquote. Yeah, and and the Barraine stuff. It's

3224
03:21:38,280 --> 03:21:42,080
Speaker 1: also worth mentioning like that never stopped like no, I

3225
03:21:42,160 --> 03:21:44,200
Speaker 1: mean it stopped being him in charge, but like like

3226
03:21:45,160 --> 03:21:49,000
Speaker 1: it only stopped him being in charge. Yeah, yeah, And

3227
03:21:49,080 --> 03:21:52,320
Speaker 1: and like in two thousand eleven there's another revolution against

3228
03:21:52,400 --> 03:21:55,440
Speaker 1: like the Bahraini barony like monarchy, and I mean it

3229
03:21:55,520 --> 03:21:57,600
Speaker 1: ended essentially with the Saudia's role tanks across the border.

3230
03:21:57,640 --> 03:21:58,920
Speaker 1: But one of the things that happened was that the

3231
03:21:58,920 --> 03:22:02,400
Speaker 1: British helped like the Bahraini government like hunt down dissidence.

3232
03:22:03,560 --> 03:22:05,720
Speaker 1: I just busted out my lecture on this hand slot

3233
03:22:05,760 --> 03:22:08,080
Speaker 1: park stuff. If we want to talk more about there

3234
03:22:08,120 --> 03:22:11,880
Speaker 1: were fifteen miles of files that they found hidden. I

3235
03:22:11,920 --> 03:22:14,760
Speaker 1: mean this that was That was also the case in Ireland,

3236
03:22:14,879 --> 03:22:18,000
Speaker 1: which we're going to talk about later, the odd file.

3237
03:22:18,200 --> 03:22:21,199
Speaker 1: I lose emails all the time. That's similar to fifteen

3238
03:22:21,280 --> 03:22:27,000
Speaker 1: miles of paperwork. So in nineteen four, Ian Henderson was

3239
03:22:27,160 --> 03:22:31,160
Speaker 1: awarded by Queen Elizabeth with a CBE for services to

3240
03:22:31,360 --> 03:22:34,480
Speaker 1: British interests in Bahrain and uh he also received a

3241
03:22:34,560 --> 03:22:38,400
Speaker 1: knighthood in the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire.

3242
03:22:39,040 --> 03:22:42,160
Speaker 1: So this this was after he was already known as

3243
03:22:42,240 --> 03:22:45,560
Speaker 1: the Butcher of Bahrain. This this is this, he's well

3244
03:22:45,600 --> 03:22:50,520
Speaker 1: into his tenure. He is torturing children, killing them, kidnapping them,

3245
03:22:51,040 --> 03:22:55,280
Speaker 1: maiming people. And that's when he gets knighthooded uh for

3246
03:22:55,480 --> 03:22:59,640
Speaker 1: his services to the British interests in Bahrain. UM. So yeah,

3247
03:22:59,760 --> 03:23:06,080
Speaker 1: that that's Ian Henderson. UM. Now. During Henderson's time in Kenya, UH,

3248
03:23:06,440 --> 03:23:08,680
Speaker 1: he was just a part of the small team that

3249
03:23:08,800 --> 03:23:13,120
Speaker 1: was developing a new form of counterinsurgency pseudo gangster tactics,

3250
03:23:13,600 --> 03:23:18,400
Speaker 1: UH kind of weaponizing like gang gang warfare for British interests. UH.

3251
03:23:18,760 --> 03:23:21,960
Speaker 1: The other person who was kind of running this operation

3252
03:23:22,560 --> 03:23:28,400
Speaker 1: was an Englishman named Frank Kinson. Um so he in

3253
03:23:28,760 --> 03:23:31,760
Speaker 1: uh he was also serving in Kenya UM and then

3254
03:23:31,879 --> 03:23:35,240
Speaker 1: on New Year's in nineteen fifty five, Kinson was awarded

3255
03:23:35,280 --> 03:23:40,520
Speaker 1: the British Military Cross in recognition of galleant and distinguished

3256
03:23:40,600 --> 03:23:44,560
Speaker 1: services in Kenya UM and three years later he gained

3257
03:23:44,600 --> 03:23:47,320
Speaker 1: a bar to that battle for his work in the

3258
03:23:48,000 --> 03:23:52,879
Speaker 1: UH Malaysian emergency quote unquote. So during Britain's brutal rule

3259
03:23:53,120 --> 03:23:57,680
Speaker 1: brutal war in Malaysia, um he he he played he

3260
03:23:57,800 --> 03:24:01,720
Speaker 1: played a part in the con tration camps which Chris mentioned.

3261
03:24:02,440 --> 03:24:06,959
Speaker 1: The process was known as vigilization as they forced people

3262
03:24:07,120 --> 03:24:10,600
Speaker 1: into these concentration camps all over the course of a famine.

3263
03:24:11,160 --> 03:24:14,280
Speaker 1: And they were invading Glasia to fund Britain's kind of

3264
03:24:14,320 --> 03:24:20,680
Speaker 1: post war reconstruction. Uh so he he was in Kenya Malaysia.

3265
03:24:21,600 --> 03:24:24,800
Speaker 1: He also went to Bahrain, just like Henderson did. He

3266
03:24:24,920 --> 03:24:28,800
Speaker 1: went to Yemen, Aiden and Cyprus, all places where the

3267
03:24:28,879 --> 03:24:32,960
Speaker 1: British state is uh known for doing the widespread use

3268
03:24:33,000 --> 03:24:36,520
Speaker 1: of torture. Um and then he went to North He

3269
03:24:36,560 --> 03:24:40,440
Speaker 1: went to Northern Ireland. Uh in not shocking turn of events,

3270
03:24:40,920 --> 03:24:44,440
Speaker 1: um he then was the professional head of the British

3271
03:24:44,560 --> 03:24:47,800
Speaker 1: Army during the Iraq War. Described Kinson as quote the

3272
03:24:47,959 --> 03:24:52,040
Speaker 1: sun around which the planets revolved, saying that quote he

3273
03:24:52,320 --> 03:24:55,320
Speaker 1: very much set the tone for the operational style in

3274
03:24:55,440 --> 03:25:04,080
Speaker 1: Belfast um the budd the notorious military Reaction Force the

3275
03:25:04,400 --> 03:25:08,800
Speaker 1: m r F, which was accused of being behind a

3276
03:25:08,959 --> 03:25:12,360
Speaker 1: string of illegal shootings of Catholic teenagers in the early seventies,

3277
03:25:13,000 --> 03:25:17,720
Speaker 1: was based at Kitson's headquarters outside Belfast, and one of

3278
03:25:17,800 --> 03:25:23,120
Speaker 1: the units under his command was nicknamed Kitson's Private Army UH.

3279
03:25:23,240 --> 03:25:27,120
Speaker 1: Its official name was one Pea. And these were the

3280
03:25:27,200 --> 03:25:31,080
Speaker 1: people that did bloody Sunday um So in nineteen seventy

3281
03:25:31,160 --> 03:25:35,080
Speaker 1: two in Dairy, fifteen thousand people gathered outside to protest

3282
03:25:35,160 --> 03:25:40,119
Speaker 1: against detention without trial. At ten past four, British paratroopers

3283
03:25:41,080 --> 03:25:44,160
Speaker 1: opened fire. Twenty eight people were shot, some in the

3284
03:25:44,240 --> 03:25:47,400
Speaker 1: back as they fled. Fourteen people were killed, seven of

3285
03:25:47,480 --> 03:25:51,240
Speaker 1: whom were teenagers, and it was Kitson's Private Army who

3286
03:25:51,360 --> 03:25:54,360
Speaker 1: fired all one d and eight shots UH in Dairy

3287
03:25:54,560 --> 03:25:58,040
Speaker 1: during winter of nineteen seventy two UH. One of the

3288
03:25:58,160 --> 03:26:02,320
Speaker 1: victims are the first teenager UH named Kevin. Seventeen years

3289
03:26:02,360 --> 03:26:04,440
Speaker 1: old he was shot from behind while trying to crawl

3290
03:26:04,520 --> 03:26:10,960
Speaker 1: to safety. Um. Yeah, anyway, Murphy massacre was at the

3291
03:26:11,040 --> 03:26:14,480
Speaker 1: same time as well. Like it's worth, people like these

3292
03:26:14,480 --> 03:26:16,520
Speaker 1: are very well documented things, so people that people can

3293
03:26:16,600 --> 03:26:18,360
Speaker 1: read about that we don't need to describe the detail.

3294
03:26:18,400 --> 03:26:25,080
Speaker 1: But so England in England Bad Elizabeth Queen. In nineteen

3295
03:26:25,160 --> 03:26:29,040
Speaker 1: seventy two, frank Kinson was knighted again same same year

3296
03:26:29,040 --> 03:26:31,480
Speaker 1: as the massacre, was knighted by the Queen for Galley

3297
03:26:31,480 --> 03:26:35,080
Speaker 1: into distinguished service in Northern Ireland and was promoted to

3298
03:26:35,520 --> 03:26:38,720
Speaker 1: Commander of the Order of the British Empire UM. A

3299
03:26:38,800 --> 03:26:41,360
Speaker 1: few years later he became a major general and the

3300
03:26:41,480 --> 03:26:45,520
Speaker 1: quote night Commander of the Order of the Bath again

3301
03:26:45,720 --> 03:26:48,480
Speaker 1: what is it? What is it? Is nice that he

3302
03:26:48,680 --> 03:26:51,480
Speaker 1: and former head of the CIA, George H. W. Bush

3303
03:26:51,560 --> 03:26:54,640
Speaker 1: got to hang out in their fancy club though these

3304
03:26:54,720 --> 03:26:59,879
Speaker 1: people are so fucked up. So later later Kitson serned

3305
03:26:59,879 --> 03:27:02,879
Speaker 1: as Commander in Chief of the UK Land Forces from

3306
03:27:03,080 --> 03:27:06,440
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two to nineteen eighty five and was the

3307
03:27:06,600 --> 03:27:10,720
Speaker 1: Aide the Look was the Aide de camp general to

3308
03:27:10,879 --> 03:27:14,960
Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth direct directly to Queen Elizabeth from nineteen eighty

3309
03:27:15,040 --> 03:27:20,360
Speaker 1: three to nineteen eighty five. So yeah, that's uh, that's fun.

3310
03:27:20,959 --> 03:27:22,760
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that the Order of the Bath is

3311
03:27:22,800 --> 03:27:26,080
Speaker 1: like a I believe that some of those other honors,

3312
03:27:26,200 --> 03:27:28,440
Speaker 1: that queen's honors that you've talked about, like I was

3313
03:27:28,520 --> 03:27:31,680
Speaker 1: selected by committee your pressper government. I'm not quite sure.

3314
03:27:31,720 --> 03:27:33,120
Speaker 1: The Order of the Bath is supposed to be like

3315
03:27:33,200 --> 03:27:38,200
Speaker 1: the personal the Queen's like specific selection. Yeah, yeah, and

3316
03:27:38,280 --> 03:27:40,199
Speaker 1: the sovereign is head of the Order of the Bath

3317
03:27:40,280 --> 03:27:43,680
Speaker 1: like it's like yours. It's the big it's the big

3318
03:27:43,800 --> 03:27:49,760
Speaker 1: diamond shape mail. You're tortured so dreadfully well, I'd love

3319
03:27:49,840 --> 03:27:54,000
Speaker 1: to give you this fancy award for jamming screwdrivers into

3320
03:27:54,120 --> 03:27:58,160
Speaker 1: children turning the ball. Who do you do? Go off

3321
03:27:58,280 --> 03:28:02,760
Speaker 1: to go breed another coal. That's the ghost of the

3322
03:28:02,800 --> 03:28:04,400
Speaker 1: queen you have promised you at the start of the episode.

3323
03:28:05,560 --> 03:28:10,320
Speaker 1: So through throughout the two thousands, Kinson remained a key

3324
03:28:10,320 --> 03:28:13,760
Speaker 1: advisor on U S military strategy during the wars in

3325
03:28:13,840 --> 03:28:17,480
Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan. There it's much that the US has

3326
03:28:17,520 --> 03:28:19,960
Speaker 1: done which is also wore crimes in torture in those wars.

3327
03:28:20,200 --> 03:28:22,200
Speaker 1: And we should also mention, Okay, there's there's a thing

3328
03:28:22,240 --> 03:28:24,320
Speaker 1: you'll get from insurgency nerds who were talking about the

3329
03:28:24,360 --> 03:28:27,320
Speaker 1: Mala like emergency quote unquote is like the one successful

3330
03:28:27,360 --> 03:28:30,080
Speaker 1: kind of insurgency, and that's just not true. Like they

3331
03:28:30,480 --> 03:28:33,240
Speaker 1: started again after they stopped in seconds. You can tell

3332
03:28:33,280 --> 03:28:35,000
Speaker 1: how well this went by the fact that that guy

3333
03:28:35,120 --> 03:28:36,840
Speaker 1: also was helping the U. S do a rock and

3334
03:28:36,840 --> 03:28:39,840
Speaker 1: Afghanistan and the only thing he's ever managed to accomplish

3335
03:28:39,920 --> 03:28:42,280
Speaker 1: is killing an enormous number of people. He doesn't it

3336
03:28:42,440 --> 03:28:45,040
Speaker 1: was just that he had dubs there. Yeah, he was

3337
03:28:45,480 --> 03:28:48,640
Speaker 1: in all those countries. He was heavily involved in Aiden

3338
03:28:48,680 --> 03:28:52,440
Speaker 1: and Yemen, which led to two thousand deaths between nineteen

3339
03:28:52,480 --> 03:28:56,600
Speaker 1: sixty two and nineteen seventy UM and and today British

3340
03:28:56,680 --> 03:29:01,160
Speaker 1: armies still continue the same This this the same process

3341
03:29:01,320 --> 03:29:07,080
Speaker 1: of of overseeing the bombing of Yemen. Um. So it's

3342
03:29:07,400 --> 03:29:10,039
Speaker 1: this isn't like me. There's definitely no one that US

3343
03:29:10,160 --> 03:29:14,040
Speaker 1: is innocent of. Just oh no, we're the ones arming

3344
03:29:14,680 --> 03:29:18,440
Speaker 1: h We need to Saudi coalition whatever you wanna call it.

3345
03:29:18,560 --> 03:29:21,720
Speaker 1: That's murdering people in Yemen. But I think doesn't have

3346
03:29:21,840 --> 03:29:24,600
Speaker 1: the capacity to to make as many bombs as the

3347
03:29:24,680 --> 03:29:27,440
Speaker 1: US is standing to Yemen. I would doubt. But all

3348
03:29:27,480 --> 03:29:29,480
Speaker 1: of these processes and all of these people are still

3349
03:29:29,560 --> 03:29:32,960
Speaker 1: continuing the same colonialism and the same yes, all of

3350
03:29:33,040 --> 03:29:35,000
Speaker 1: the same oppression. Like this isn't like this isn't like

3351
03:29:35,800 --> 03:29:38,720
Speaker 1: the past. It's it's an ongoing thing that the monarchy

3352
03:29:39,120 --> 03:29:42,480
Speaker 1: awards and perpetuates. They've had to downsize it a little

3353
03:29:42,480 --> 03:29:44,680
Speaker 1: bit because you know, it just doesn't work as well

3354
03:29:44,720 --> 03:29:46,440
Speaker 1: as it used to. And so the thing they decided

3355
03:29:46,480 --> 03:29:49,120
Speaker 1: to do to downsize it was stopped paying off the

3356
03:29:49,200 --> 03:29:52,600
Speaker 1: populace um and just start policing them harder. And but

3357
03:29:52,720 --> 03:29:57,520
Speaker 1: but the money has kept flowing to the royals. Yes, yeah,

3358
03:29:57,959 --> 03:30:01,560
Speaker 1: So anyway, in the Malay emergency, that Britain did pioneer

3359
03:30:01,640 --> 03:30:03,520
Speaker 1: the use of agent orange. So that's another gift that

3360
03:30:03,600 --> 03:30:06,520
Speaker 1: we've given to the people of the United States. Ah well,

3361
03:30:06,879 --> 03:30:10,520
Speaker 1: thank you James for that. Yeah, welcome anytime. It's that.

3362
03:30:10,720 --> 03:30:13,720
Speaker 1: It's t Cosey's with the Queen on It's stuff coolgies.

3363
03:30:14,240 --> 03:30:17,280
Speaker 1: You know. I wanna suggest if you are looking for

3364
03:30:17,360 --> 03:30:21,280
Speaker 1: a way to properly mourn Queen Elizabeth Um, maybe check

3365
03:30:21,320 --> 03:30:25,480
Speaker 1: out the film Churchill The Hollywood Years, a truly exceptional movie.

3366
03:30:25,560 --> 03:30:27,920
Speaker 1: If you just type it into Google and look around

3367
03:30:27,959 --> 03:30:30,520
Speaker 1: on YouTube you can find a full copy of it. Um.

3368
03:30:30,720 --> 03:30:34,160
Speaker 1: It features Christian Slater as Winston Churchill and Nev Campbell

3369
03:30:34,280 --> 03:30:37,360
Speaker 1: as the recently deceased Queen UM and I don't know

3370
03:30:37,440 --> 03:30:39,199
Speaker 1: who it is that they got to play her father,

3371
03:30:39,360 --> 03:30:42,440
Speaker 1: the former king, but he's he's basically a portrayed as

3372
03:30:42,520 --> 03:30:45,560
Speaker 1: like a drunk and also like every time there's a

3373
03:30:45,600 --> 03:30:48,560
Speaker 1: big fancy party, he's just constantly staring at everyone's drinks

3374
03:30:48,560 --> 03:30:51,360
Speaker 1: because he's angry that they're drinking is champagne because he's

3375
03:30:51,400 --> 03:30:55,880
Speaker 1: a big fucking uh spinthrift. Very funny, very good send

3376
03:30:55,959 --> 03:30:59,879
Speaker 1: up of the royal family. Um. Also, Heinrich Himler condu

3377
03:31:00,040 --> 03:31:03,120
Speaker 1: it's a Satanic wedding and by replacing a crucifix with

3378
03:31:03,160 --> 03:31:06,120
Speaker 1: a chicken, it's It's a good movie watch in real life,

3379
03:31:06,640 --> 03:31:09,160
Speaker 1: just like in real life. I'll also recommend you check

3380
03:31:09,200 --> 03:31:11,920
Speaker 1: out the book Royal Babylon. I was able to get

3381
03:31:11,959 --> 03:31:16,760
Speaker 1: it a free copy online through great methods. Um So anyway,

3382
03:31:16,840 --> 03:31:19,840
Speaker 1: yeah that if you want a nice, like poetic history

3383
03:31:19,920 --> 03:31:22,360
Speaker 1: of how the queen is sucked up and the monarchy sucks,

3384
03:31:22,760 --> 03:31:25,760
Speaker 1: Royal Babylon is a nice easy read. Did you get

3385
03:31:25,800 --> 03:31:28,959
Speaker 1: into the balls lion sisters as well. Did you do that? Now?

3386
03:31:29,720 --> 03:31:33,879
Speaker 1: These two people who were disabled, they are the Queen's cousins.

3387
03:31:34,080 --> 03:31:37,200
Speaker 1: They the royal family basically announced they were dead, but

3388
03:31:37,240 --> 03:31:41,520
Speaker 1: they weren't dead. And they lived in an institutional home

3389
03:31:41,640 --> 03:31:44,879
Speaker 1: for I think it was it was called the Royal

3390
03:31:44,959 --> 03:31:48,640
Speaker 1: Earth word Institution for Mental Defectives. Great. They lived there

3391
03:31:48,760 --> 03:31:51,720
Speaker 1: more or less anonymously, completely discerned by the family on

3392
03:31:51,840 --> 03:31:56,120
Speaker 1: a very small stipend until they died. And that is

3393
03:31:56,200 --> 03:31:59,440
Speaker 1: not a nice way to treat your cousins. Well, yeah,

3394
03:31:59,480 --> 03:32:05,560
Speaker 1: it's only sentence my opinion that monarchy is bad, bad

3395
03:32:06,200 --> 03:32:11,160
Speaker 1: something about FUCO and boomerangs and colonialism. Abolish the monarchy.

3396
03:32:11,360 --> 03:32:14,320
Speaker 1: It's always okay to celebrate the death of a king

3397
03:32:14,600 --> 03:32:18,840
Speaker 1: or queen. Um, doesn't matter who they are, doesn't matter

3398
03:32:18,959 --> 03:32:22,840
Speaker 1: how it happens. Um, it's bad for the concept of

3399
03:32:22,959 --> 03:32:26,840
Speaker 1: monarchy is the only thing more toxic than the concept

3400
03:32:26,959 --> 03:32:30,040
Speaker 1: of inherited wealth. Um. And both are deeply tied to

3401
03:32:30,160 --> 03:32:33,400
Speaker 1: each other. Uh. Fuck the Queen and fun all of

3402
03:32:33,440 --> 03:32:35,840
Speaker 1: her relatives, except for the ones who give up their

3403
03:32:36,080 --> 03:32:40,000
Speaker 1: their positions in power. Those people are are cool. Yeah,

3404
03:32:41,200 --> 03:32:44,480
Speaker 1: don't turn police people whose parents were killed by colonial

3405
03:32:44,560 --> 03:32:51,280
Speaker 1: regimes on Yeah yeah, and over overthrow the government of Britain. Yeah. Look,

3406
03:32:51,360 --> 03:32:54,959
Speaker 1: we always this podcast from the beginning has been directly

3407
03:32:55,080 --> 03:32:58,520
Speaker 1: in favor of an insurrection against the crown. The one

3408
03:32:58,560 --> 03:32:59,800
Speaker 1: thing that you do have to hand it to the

3409
03:33:00,240 --> 03:33:03,440
Speaker 1: for is seeing Liz Trust as Prime Minister and immediately dying,

3410
03:33:03,640 --> 03:33:11,000
Speaker 1: which is an appropriate response. I commute ritual suicide. And

3411
03:33:11,080 --> 03:33:15,280
Speaker 1: you know again, King Sebuto the second did destroy democracy

3412
03:33:15,440 --> 03:33:17,880
Speaker 1: in Swaziland, but then he replaced it with something that

3413
03:33:18,000 --> 03:33:20,879
Speaker 1: kind of sounds like democracy. And that's more than Queen

3414
03:33:20,920 --> 03:33:24,920
Speaker 1: Elizabeth did. We just started at point B something that

3415
03:33:25,080 --> 03:33:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of sounds I know, I know what King, I'm

3416
03:33:29,280 --> 03:33:32,600
Speaker 1: gonna stand in the future. All right, but well that's

3417
03:33:32,640 --> 03:33:34,640
Speaker 1: a T shirt I'll be getting you for Christmas. Thank you,

3418
03:33:37,320 --> 03:33:43,600
Speaker 1: short short lived King Charles the Third. Hey, We'll be

3419
03:33:43,680 --> 03:33:47,040
Speaker 1: back Monday with more episodes every week from now until

3420
03:33:47,080 --> 03:33:49,520
Speaker 1: the heat death of the universe. It could happen here

3421
03:33:49,560 --> 03:33:52,240
Speaker 1: as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts

3422
03:33:52,240 --> 03:33:54,800
Speaker 1: from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media

3423
03:33:54,920 --> 03:33:56,720
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the I Heart

3424
03:33:56,760 --> 03:33:59,720
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

3425
03:34:00,200 --> 03:34:02,280
Speaker 1: You can find sources for it could happen here. Updated

3426
03:34:02,400 --> 03:34:05,840
Speaker 1: monthly at cool Zone Media dot com Slash sources. Thanks

3427
03:34:05,879 --> 03:34:06,360
Speaker 1: for listening.