WEBVTT - The Science of False Memories 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:13.720 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.160 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. You know, Julie, 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.560 we are basically our memories. We are. We are a 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:25.360 stack of cards. In each card is a memory, and 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:27.600 they form who we are. That that alone can be 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:29.720 kind of tricky to wrap your your head around, and 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:31.720 and it is kind of a simplification. But but still 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.760 we are made up of memories where where all these 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.680 these uh these recollections of things that have happened, things 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.040 we've learned, and they form who we are. So the 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:45.479 idea that some of those memories are false memories is 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.960 really fascinating. Yeah, because it means that part of what 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:54.840 we are is not factual. It's a fabrication and and 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:56.560 and it's and even more to the point, it's one 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.200 thing if you build some fabrication into who you are. 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.320 I'm a support Yeah, yeah, I try and believe something 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.360 that's not real every day, something new, you know, uh 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.160 and uh and build it up to him at least 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:12.520 fifty fifty. But but but the idea that there are 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.640 parts of us that we think are true, that are false. 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.640 That's that's the really fascinating and or chilling thing. Yeah, 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:24.600 and uh, what we're talking about is specifically a book 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.840 called Seventh Sins of Memory by Daniel Schockter. And he 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:30.960 was on a panel that you saw at the World 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.560 Science Festival covering memory and what happens with memory? Yes, 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.040 in New York City. Uh, as it was. Yeah, it 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.520 was a fascinating talk. We referred to to some of 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:41.920 the stuff that was brought up in our previous episode 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:48.800 on on memory. What do we talk about? That's what 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.840 happens when you record as many podcasts. That's that's a yeah, 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.440 false recall there. But but but but Yeah, as we've 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.720 discussed before, memory is uh is not this perfect thing. 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.680 It is a they in a sense, you could say 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:03.840 that it's it's a flawed system. It would be more 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.240 accurate to just say a memory is ephemeral because a 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.839 lot of the flaws that are there are a part 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.200 of its operating system, Like we can't remember everything, so 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:16.359 you're gonna forget things, um and uh, and in memories 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:18.880 are we were always having to update information. So there's 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.680 a potential for disaster there. And I know that we've 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:25.079 talked about this before that when you have a particularly 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.240 strong memory that has to do with like saying nine eleven, right, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.720 you know, where were you on nine eleven, that your 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.240 potential for recall is actually hindered by the fact that 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.480 you're a magdala isn't on high alert your emotional center 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.840 of your brain, so your hypocampus is not necessarily really 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.359 accurately recording things at that moment because your amingdala is 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.880 kind of taking over. So that's just one example of how, um, 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.440 you know, you can come away from an experience having 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.200 really strong emotional feelings and saying, yes, I was there 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:55.799 and I was wearing this shirt and so on and 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:00.200 so forth, but um, you're actually hamstrung and your billy 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.480 to bring up those particular details, even if you feel 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.120 certain that that's the way it went down, right, and uh. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.480 And it's also important to stress that memory is a 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.840 rather complex system. It's not just a situation of oh, 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.040 here's the part of my brain that does memory, and 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:19.600 it's doing memory right now. There it goes it remembered 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.239 something and then wrote a new memory. Now we have 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.680 There are several different types of memory, and they're all 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.200 sort of working in a in a chorus and uh, 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.480 uh you know, I mean it's it's very much like 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:34.840 an orchestra scenario where no no particular instrument is playing 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.840 the tune that everything together creates the song that you're hearing. 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.080 So you have things like episodic memory for events, semantic 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.440 memory for facts in general knowledge, uh, priming memory for 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:49.240 unconscious activation of memories and reminders. Conditioning from that Pavlovian 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.640 experience where the dog here's the dinner bell and starts 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.280 salivating even though the meal hasn't members in it. Yeah, 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.240 and the priming one is something we're gonna talk about 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.120 a little bit too, But that one is interesting. What 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.400 you're saying is you're can meeting sort of unconscious memories, 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.520 ain't even really aware of of this database that you're 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.200 building up. So in his book, Shackter lays out what 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.280 he calls the seven Deadly Sins of memory, and uh, 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:12.880 it's a fascinating look at it. I mean there's some 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:17.800 bleed over between one and another, but uh, like the 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.880 three first that he goes through transience and that's just 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.880 basically I'm not going to remember, um, this fact from 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.800 ten years ago because my brain forgets things over time. 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.200 That's that's pretty simple. Like when you and and then 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.560 there's gonna be this uh basic absent mindedness. And this 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.280 is where you don't remember what somebody told you because 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.160 you were you know, involved in another task or you 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.680 were driving and uh, you suddenly got distracted. You say, 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:45.800 you're listening to this podcast while driving, and suddenly you 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:47.280 have to you have to deal with some sort of 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:51.600 near wreck experience. You're maybe hoping me not, but you're 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.160 probably not going to commit to memory, at least not 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.480 committed strongly. Um, whatever you're listening to on a podcast 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.160 or radio. Uh. Then there there's a also blocking And 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.520 this is what happens when you're like, oh, um, what 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.280 was the actor in the Yeah, the actor and the 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.280 thing which I do all the time, what was what 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:11.960 was that film with Val Kilmer in it where he 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:13.560 has a sword? You know that that kind of thing. 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:15.640 And you'll sit there and will be agonizing, you know 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.000 what was that person's name? And someone will be like 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:19.920 look it up an IMDb and you're like, no, I 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.320 have to think of myself. And for me, I'm always 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.800 like that guy that was wearing shoes and like never 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.880 giving anybody good clues and so from there he breaks 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:29.760 out some of the things that can happen. Some of 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.920 them are are sins that basically color memory, like suggestibility, 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.520 which is really fascinating his own right. This is this 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.080 is like, for instance, the scenario where um, the police 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.160 are grilling a witness to a crime and trying and 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.520 trying to find out like who is the who they 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.720 saw at the scene, and they will sometimes sometimes even 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.240 kind of unconsciously hint that this is the person you 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.920 should pick, so sort of like leading the witness leading 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.280 in the courtroom before, where it's like that line of 0:05:56.360 --> 0:06:00.240 questioning is really putting that idea in your head. Yeah, 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.200 like if I was to say, so, Julie, your favorite 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.080 food is pizza, right, well, yes it is actually yes. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:08.600 I mean that's kind of a horrible example, but but 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:10.920 I'm leading you. You know, It's like the the answers 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:12.640 and the question. The answer that I want is in 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.800 the question that I ask you, like cheese, like sauce? 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.280 Do I ever? And then there's also just persistence, which 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:21.640 is for instance, a traumatic memory that keeps showing up. 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.400 But the one that we're going to discuss in detail 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:28.160 today is misattribution. This is a particularly fascinating. This. This 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:33.440 is like memory distortion on steroids can be. Sometimes it 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:35.080 can be pretty simple, like a day to day thing. 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.960 There's a predictability factor that we rely on when we're 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:39.960 bringing up a memory, right, we're taking it out of 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.040 the drawer, and misattribution seems to fall prey to our 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.560 need to fit details into a framework right, even if 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.880 the pieces don't fit. Um. There's a kind of familiarity 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.560 that exists, right because you you have some of the 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.560 facts right, you have some of the facts wrong, but 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.400 your mind wants to try to square that and um, 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.720 so you know, even though it's it could be wrong, 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.920 it feels right to you because on some level you're 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.440 familiar with some of the details. And there a bunch 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.920 of examples of what misattribution can be. Like one of 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.240 the most most obvious ones would be an example of 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.360 where you try and remember, um, like where you met 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.120 somebody or a year and you end up the memory 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.760 is fine, except that there's a detail wrong in it, 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:25.440 or a couple of details wrong, and it's basically got 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.120 gotten a little mixed up, that your order has been 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.960 slightly mixed up. From the kitchen they bring they bring 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.600 you the burger you ordered, but they give you fries 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.120 instead of the side salad that you requested, right right. 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.120 So you actually recall something, but you might map it 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.640 to the wrong place or time or to the wrong person, 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.280 and then you've got an imagined event that you ascribe 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.640 to a reality. Which this is really fascinating, where we 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:54.400 end up remembering something as fact, like we remembering something 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.760 as action that we merely imagined or thought about doing. 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:00.880 And the great example of this is something happens to 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.480 me way too often, and that is where I'll leave 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.480 the house and I'll actually lock the door, but then 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.680 I'll check it again, double sure that I locked it, 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:11.640 or sometimes walked to the car and then walk back 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.400 and then check that I locked it again, which is 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.280 just unexcusable to come back for the third time. But 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.160 it's but I can't I can't remember if I thought 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.200 about locking it or I did lock it. The same 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.880 with the things like blowing out the candle in the 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.200 bathroom or turning off a burner. These are vital things 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:30.040 we need to do, and we're making the middle note, 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.120 do it, do it, do it, But then after the fact, 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:33.880 we can't remember did I just think about doing that? 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.319 Or did I actually do it? Did I imagine myself 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.800 doing it? And um, if you go on the World 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.000 Science Festival site, you'll actually see a clip of this 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.200 example in In the example, it's not necessarily the person 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.480 imagining themselves doing something or himself doing something, but it's 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:52.160 this clip of this guy talking about how for many 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:56.720 years he harbored this resentment against his cousin for ruining 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.600 his eighth birthday party by swinging the bat, the pinona, 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.520 all the candy out. So he sees his cousin at 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:06.400 some point, you know, a couple of years ago, he's 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.439 now an adult, and he says, remember that time that 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.880 you completely ruined my eighth birthday party? And his cousin says, 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.560 what are you talking about. I was away at summer 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.199 camp at your eighth birthday party. And he said that 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.800 he immediately realized that he had concocted this, this memory, 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:25.000 and it's just just like that. He thought, Oh, that's 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.920 completely right, this he was at summer camp. And I 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.480 think that's fascinating. And I know that there are examples 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.800 for myself that you know, I've done the same thing. Um, 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.760 And for whatever reason, our minds kind of conjure these 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:44.080 these alternate realities. These are these are basically um binding errors, 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.559 um binding failures. Even in memory binding and and again 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.400 they you basically have two kinds um I mean memory 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.920 binding is the is the gluing together of various components 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.920 of an experience into a whole. Is the bringing together 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.920 of the different um the saw had the main dish, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.959 the garnish, and the condiments into the complete order. And 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.600 in a binding failure, the the time that the event 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.040 occurs at the action or the object, et cetera, is 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.120 not bound to the particular time and place. And again 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.959 it can It can deal with with real events and 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.000 just sort of mix them around or imagined or just 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.319 purely thought about events. Yeah. Yeah, So that's really interesting 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.520 that you'd have to have that sort of sequential binding 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.559 in your head. Otherwise things kind of go awry if 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.000 you don't have that glue in place. In the books, 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.840 Actor describes an experiment where younger and older adults were 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.480 shown one object and then as to imagine a second object. 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.120 All right, So in the first case they had them imagine, say, 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.199 a magnifying glass. So that's easy to imagine, you know, 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:46.640 it's like a stick with a round thing. At the 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.000 top that you look through to see, you know. Um. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.840 And then they imagined that they saw that they actually 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.320 saw a magnifying class there it is, so the actual 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.040 object with it. And then they imagined a lollipop, and 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.280 a lollipop is also a stick with a own thing 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.120 at the top, but with an entirely different purpose. Um. 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.319 Then they also did a dissimilar thing where it was 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.920 like a screwdriver and a coat hanger. And when they 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.480 looked at at the results, they found that that older 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.439 adults were more likely to say they'd actually seen the lolly, 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.880 which yeah, But but they had a number of tests 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.760 subbosely that were actually said, yeah, I saw the law, 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.959 you showed it to me. So the examples of of 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.040 the thing we imagine in the thing we perceived becoming confused, 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.360 which is more it's more likely when there is some 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.880 sort of semantic link between the two. Yeah, yeah, Well, 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.079 and again there's that familiarity, right, it's the context, and 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.240 it gives a sort of fire to your convictions. And 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.000 you do see that more in the elderly, who rely 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.120 on that sense of familiarity to corroborate their memories, and 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:52.920 they have a harder time recalling specific recollections. You also 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.360 see this sometimes uh like the misuh the misattribution of 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.199 the source of a memory, and that this may have 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.000 happened to a number of you. Where are you So 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.120 you hear something from a friend and then you misremember 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.680 it as being something you saw on the news, which 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:09.599 can get you into some trouble sometime if you're you know, 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.600 in a dinner party and you're like, oh, yeah, such, 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.480 such and such, and then people were like, I don't 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.200 think that's right. I think you you may have got 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.559 the wrong You're like, no, I saw that on Fox News. 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.920 It must be true. Well, seeing I was thinking about that, 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.480 and I was thinking, that is why language is so 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.760 flawed for us. And of course it's great because it's 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.160 what we have to communicate with each other with. But 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.720 I was thinking, here's here's a good example of something 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.079 like the health care bill in the United States. This 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.120 conversation began to happen around it, and there are all 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.679 sorts of bits of information, information that's unleashed and and 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.240 some of that has been misremembered, intentionally or not. And 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.560 you have these conversations going on and it's being processed 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.920 by the public at large, and then mass confusion ensues 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.199 and you're talking about things like the death panels and 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.360 all that. Yeah, yeah, I really have any any any origin. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.240 In fact, it was more about people coloring the debate 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:07.640 with exaggerated ideas or just misconstruing information. And maybe they 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.280 weren't trying to do that intentionally, but I think it's 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.400 fascinating that you have this black and white document that exists, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.199 and yet the reality that's been created around it, or 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:20.599 had been created around I guess depending on how you 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.280 look at it, uh, is quite different from what the 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.640 actual document is. And a lot of this I think 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:31.000 again has there's that suggestibility factor and um this uh 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.800 also this the the wrong source, right, because you could 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.640 sit around in a dinner party and mistake what someone 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.160 might say at the table for fact that was you know, 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:46.120 reported Fox News or NBC, and so it just really 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.880 muddles the conversations that we have and the reality of 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.920 of um of what we're all looking at. You know. Yeah. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.800 Another possibility is that if you're watching say twenty four 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.880 hour news show, and you don't really end up in 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.360 remembering whether you heard something on an opinion based section 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.079 or um a more a factual news report. Um, you 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:07.559 know it's the same. Gonna go with a you know, 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.719 a newspaper did you get on the opinion page or 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.679 from the like the ap stories right? Or a blog 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:16.040 right that it's that a blog that's been researched and 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.160 documented or is it just someone's blog that says I 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.800 hate Monday's right. Well, I like in my own research 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.000 for articles, here at how stuff works. Like, sometimes I'll 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.040 find myself in a situation where and we'recalling a fact 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.560 from the research I've done, and I have to I 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.240 try to steer away from even looking at sources that 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.360 I that could potentially be problematic because ideally, like I've heard, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.840 like some people can argue that, say, a Wikipedia article 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.520 is a good starting place for legitimate research because even 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.200 though you you have to cast out on the article itself, 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:49.120 since anybody can update it and in quality varies sometimes 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.880 right in quality very significantly. There's some fine Wikipedia articles 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:55.320 out there, but then there are some that are just 0:14:55.480 --> 0:15:00.440 really incorrect, really flawed, or poorly written. So some people 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.360 say start there, then you know, use that as a 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.520 jumping off place for real research. But the problem there 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.560 is that you'll run across other facts you'll start putting 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.880 together an article or something, and then you'll put something 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.880 in and you'll misremember the source. So something you ended 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.720 up thinking is from say this New York Times article 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.760 or something published in a perior view journal is actually 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.760 from the Wikipedia article or a blog referring to one 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.280 of the uh, the primary sources and uh, and it 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.920 just gets confusing. So it's a topsy turvy world. All right, 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:33.640 we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.760 we're gonna look at a little something called a memory 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:40.440 conjunction error and how you and I could possibly be 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.280 ripping off things without us even knowing we're doing it. 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.560 This podcast is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.400 of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel. At Intel, we believe 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.520 curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. Join us at 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.280 curiosity dot com and explore the answers to life's questions. 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.480 And we're back. So memory conjunction air. This is another 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:11.800 fascinating aspect of misattribution UM where two memories are combined 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.760 into one. Generally, this is going to revolve around words 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.760 and faces and uh, and with with words especially, it's uh, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.640 it's important that there's some sort of semantic link there 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:26.800 is that the example of Varnish and Spaniel, and sometimes 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.040 people mistake that for Spanish. Right they've seen or they've 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:31.760 seen that sort of sequence and they think, oh, I 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.640 heard the word Spanish. Yeah, there's list of a semantic 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.440 link there, but more of a like a linguistic link. 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:38.960 I guess that's the sound of the words. You know, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.640 like you're you're You're probably not going to have a 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.200 memory conjunction error involving like two things that are completely different. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:48.440 But say you didn't know anything about wrap and you 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.080 were introduced, because it will it will actually like happen 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:53.320 with you know, people you're introduced to, Like if you're 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.120 in a in some sort of line of work or 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.000 just in your social life, find yourself meeting a lot 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.280 of new people, you may have a memory conjunction error 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.360 um when you try to recall information about them later, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.119 Like say you're introduced to Snoop Dogg and Little Wayne, 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.240 both rappers, and if you weren't familiar with them, you 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:13.480 might instead remember that you met one person like a 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:20.040 name like little Dog or you did it correctly or 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:24.000 a little Snoop Snoop or something yeah, so um and 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.960 But then even crazier is it can occur with faces 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.120 where you'll meet two people with similar faces and then 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.560 you'll commit to memory a face that is um a 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:38.600 combination of the two, which is so great, Yeah, and 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.160 so like that your mind would construct this third person 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.399 out of the two people. Like a lot of what 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.280 we're talking about with memory, it does raise some problematic 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.439 questions when the memory is important, because it's one thing 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.280 if you just met some people at a party and 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.040 then you get their names mixed up, or you know, 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.399 if it's some piddling thing you know where you you 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.280 accidentally say that you're, you know, the source of some 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.359 little news it was in New York Times when it 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:05.200 was really Washington Post or something. But when people's lives 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.560 are on the line, when you have criminal investigations and 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.920 witness testimonies. Yeah, And one of the best examples of 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:15.040 this is Donald Thompson, who is a memory researcher himself. Yeah, 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:20.000 Australian guy, and uh, he was arrested one morning in 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.480 connection with this rudal right, horrible saw it on this 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.440 lady who said, this is the guy, he was there, 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.880 this is the one arrested him. She was so sure 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.479 of it that police were actually able to track him 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.640 down by the way he looked right like she had 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.720 this idea of him cemented in her mind. Yeah, and 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:39.879 so they brought him in. But the thing is, Donald 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.359 Thompson had this just air tight alibi because he would 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.320 at the time of the attack, he was doing a 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:50.200 live TV interview and I ironically enough, he was talking 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.200 about the the the ephemeral nature of memory and about 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.000 false memories while this is going on. But the person 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.239 was like, no, that's him, this is the guy, that's right. 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.680 So while while she was being attacked, while she was 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.480 being raped, she was that that television program was on, 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.840 and she actually encoded his face onto the rapist face. Yeah, 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.560 it was a misastribution of of the face to the 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.800 wrong context or the wrong context to the right face, 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:20.159 which I mean, it's such a simple example of of this, uh, 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:22.760 but but just such a telling one. The idea that 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.399 she saw the face on the TV and then that 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.200 becomes the face fixed in the memory of the event. Well, 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.280 and then she had mentioned though that the big takeaway 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.119 from this is that I eye witness testimony is just 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.560 egregiously flawed. In the nineteen eighties, more than seventy five 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.960 thousand criminal trials per year were decided on the basis 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.560 of eyewitness testimony. This is from Daniel stractor Um who 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.600 wrote about this in several different articles. Uh. And then 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.040 another point that he likes to make is that in 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.800 an analysis of forty cases in which DNA exonerated wrongfully 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.800 imprisoned people, thirty six of them were put in the 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:05.240 clinker because of eyewitness testimony. So it's really one of 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.000 those things you need to back up and actually look 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.200 at the system and how it's conducted um eyewitness testimony 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.040 and UM and in fact, Janet Reno I believe tried 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.679 to reform this system and has to a certain degree. 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.359 And most police departments now when they do lineups, they 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.119 don't necessarily bring everybody in the room. Uh. And the 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.399 reason is is because even though you could have the 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.600 say someone um stole your wallet, even even if you 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.320 had the thief in that lineup, there could be someone 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.560 that looked a lot like that thief. In your mind 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.440 is misremembering and then uh fingering the other person who 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.639 is innocent because they look like the thief. So now 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:49.840 they're starting to take people in one at a time 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:51.800 so that your mind doesn't get too confused and you 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.120 can actually sort of fare it out, you know, yes 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:55.840 or no, is this the person that did it? But 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.640 even then, as we've discussed, the memory memory in them 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.960 is complex and flawed enough as it is, without the 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.960