1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,920
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I Want Justice.

2
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,680
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace premieres March ninth, only on

3
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:20,480
Speaker 1: Fox Nation. Who knew that the grudge fest runs so

4
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,560
Speaker 1: deeply in the world of zoos and animal sanctuaries in

5
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:31,040
Speaker 1: our own country that are runs so deeply it leads

6
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 1: to hit men. Thousands of dollars exchanged in order to

7
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,840
Speaker 1: knock off rub out put the head and a jar

8
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:49,360
Speaker 1: of a famous animal rights activists who runs an animal sanctuary.

9
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,280
Speaker 1: As the jealousy, the greed, the envy, the hatred, the

10
00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 1: anger so intense they are willing to kill. We're talking

11
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:06,640
Speaker 1: about none other than the flamboyant Joe Exotic a ka Passage,

12
00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 1: a ka Shrevil. What is his real name and why

13
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:17,399
Speaker 1: would he demand Carol Baskin's head quote in a jar?

14
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,280
Speaker 1: His word's not mine? I Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

15
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:38,600
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A day at the zoo.

16
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,800
Speaker 1: That's a specialty with me and my twins, my husband.

17
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,320
Speaker 1: Every time we go to a different city, we go

18
00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,120
Speaker 1: to the zoo and it's awesome. I'll never forget the

19
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 1: zoo at the Bronx, their primates at the san Diego zoo.

20
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 1: It goes on and on. But I normally don't think

21
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 1: of hit men demanding somebody's head in a jar when

22
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 1: I think of taking the children to the zoo. But

23
00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:14,440
Speaker 1: all that has changed with the name Joe Exotic not

24
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,519
Speaker 1: his real name. I mean, see Grace, this is crime stories.

25
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation,

26
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,799
Speaker 1: at Sirius XM one eleven. Let's kick it off, Jackie

27
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,480
Speaker 1: roll that beautiful sound. A zookeeper with the prison for

28
00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 1: murder for hire. There are more captive tigers in the

29
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,920
Speaker 1: US than there are in the wild throughout the world.

30
00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:43,240
Speaker 1: They old people are nuts, man, They're all crazy. I'm

31
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,440
Speaker 1: sure y'all got a story to tell. Good afternoon, ladies

32
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,520
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. My name's Joe Exotic. In this society, it

33
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 1: was like a mythical character living out in the middle

34
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,120
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma who owned twelve hundred tigers and lions and

35
00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 1: bears and speaking good looking. I love the party and

36
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:08,520
Speaker 1: have fun. I don't think we're that flowing up today.

37
00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,919
Speaker 1: They have a heart than the soul in mind. I've

38
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,720
Speaker 1: learned from them. But Carol Basket and Kate saying I

39
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,480
Speaker 1: can't have these taggers if he ever had an animate

40
00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,760
Speaker 1: of his life, it was Carol Baskin Cool Cats and Kittens.

41
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,119
Speaker 1: It's Carol, a big cat. Rescue Carol. It's the mother

42
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 1: Teresa of cats. Sleeve will into the private possession of

43
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 1: these cats. This is my way of living and nobody's

44
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 1: gonna tell me any otherwise. Well, I don't know about that.

45
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,760
Speaker 1: What you're hearing right there is from Netflix Tiger King, Murder,

46
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,120
Speaker 1: Mayhem and Madness. Yeah, that's a show on Netflix, But

47
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the real world and how many dead

48
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,440
Speaker 1: bodies are going to pile up before this thing is

49
00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 1: all sorted out. Again, thank you for being with us,

50
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 1: with me and All Star Panel to figure out how

51
00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,720
Speaker 1: Murder and Mayhem finds its way into as we call it,

52
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 1: a zoo with me. Special guest the Sheriff of Hillsborough County, Florida,

53
00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:11,800
Speaker 1: Sheriff Chad Kronister, Doctor Gray Stafford, Director Conversation Director Conservation

54
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,560
Speaker 1: at Wildlife World Zoo formerly now author of Zoo Milty

55
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 1: Keeper Tales of Training with Positive Reinforcement. Just so you know,

56
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,120
Speaker 1: we're talking about Tiger's Gray Stafford and we'll get to

57
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:29,560
Speaker 1: that positive reinforcement later. Renowned defense Attorney Jason or Oceans

58
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,279
Speaker 1: joining me out of the New York jurisdiction. Bruce Johnson,

59
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:39,040
Speaker 1: ESP Investigations Master Sergeant, Region one Crime Scene Commander, Chicago

60
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 1: Metro Retired. Cheryl McCullum, Founder and Director of the Cold

61
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:48,400
Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, doctor Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst and Beverly Hills

62
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,359
Speaker 1: at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. But right now to

63
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:56,160
Speaker 1: the New York Post investigative reporter Michael Kaplan, I want

64
00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:01,600
Speaker 1: to start with you on who is Joe Exotic? Who

65
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,200
Speaker 1: is that? Well, you know, he's this guy that owns

66
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,080
Speaker 1: that he owned a roadside zoo where you were able

67
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 1: to go and pet you know, lying cubs, and you know,

68
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,280
Speaker 1: then he was doing his roadside magic show where he'd

69
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,200
Speaker 1: you know, show up at shopping malls to do the

70
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,320
Speaker 1: sort of cut rate Siegfried and Roy deal. You know,

71
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,160
Speaker 1: he had two husbands at once, and he m you know,

72
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 1: he was an interesting, colorful, weirdly charismatic guy. And he

73
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 1: developed his vendetta against this woman named Carol Baskin and

74
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,360
Speaker 1: wanted to have her murdered, and he hired one person

75
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,800
Speaker 1: to murder her, and that that did not whoa, whoa

76
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 1: whoa you get in the cart before the horse, Michael Kaplan,

77
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,599
Speaker 1: Let me figure this out. Joe Exotic is number one.

78
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 1: Not his real name, um? Correct, what's his real name?

79
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,760
Speaker 1: His real name is. His last name is um. His

80
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 1: last name is exactly thank you. But he's got a

81
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:07,159
Speaker 1: much longer name than that that hef the tongue. No,

82
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,640
Speaker 1: it really doesn't. And to Cheryl McCallum joining me a

83
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 1: cold case research institute, Cheryl, what can you tell me

84
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,840
Speaker 1: about his zoo? It's a private zoo, Nancy, where he

85
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 1: has these tiggers, he's got the bears, he's got monkeys,

86
00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,040
Speaker 1: he's got all these wonderful animals that people can come

87
00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,400
Speaker 1: and see. But it's his private property. It's his private zoo,

88
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,440
Speaker 1: a private zoo, you know. To you, doctor Gray Stafford,

89
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,440
Speaker 1: h what's the name of your podcast? It's called zoo Logic.

90
00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,719
Speaker 1: Thank you for asking, right, zoo Logic. And you were

91
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,880
Speaker 1: at Wildlife World Zoo. As a matter of fact, that's

92
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,440
Speaker 1: where I met you when I was out in Arizona

93
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,760
Speaker 1: covering the Jodi Aria's trial for months on end, and

94
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 1: I got a good look at that was a Wildlife

95
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,360
Speaker 1: World zoo. Was that a private zoo. It is own

96
00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:04,880
Speaker 1: privately for profit, but it is accredited by national trade associations. Okay, TMI,

97
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,720
Speaker 1: is it a private zoo? Because I'm trying to understand

98
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,560
Speaker 1: what's the difference between a private zoo and a public zoo. Well,

99
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,920
Speaker 1: very often it's just a matter of tax status. Zoos

100
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,680
Speaker 1: are held to I don't know about that. I don't

101
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 1: know about that because when I saw a Wildife World Zoo,

102
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,800
Speaker 1: it was and I loved it. By the way, it

103
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 1: was different from any zoo I had ever seen, such

104
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 1: as the Atlanta Zoo or the Bronx Zoo or the

105
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:36,440
Speaker 1: San Diego Zoo. It was very different in many many ways.

106
00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,200
Speaker 1: But let me get back to Joe Exotic. What does

107
00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 1: that mean a private zoo? In my mind, as a

108
00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,360
Speaker 1: former prosecutor, immediately tells me, there's not as much a

109
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 1: governmental regulation. That's actually not true because if they're open

110
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,480
Speaker 1: to the public, they're subject to USDA inspection. These are

111
00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,000
Speaker 1: random inspections, and so there's a minimum set of requirements

112
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,160
Speaker 1: under the MMA Welcome X that all dudes, if you're

113
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,240
Speaker 1: open to the public, are held to. Gotta do a

114
00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 1: little quick research here to you kaplan real name Joe

115
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:15,520
Speaker 1: Exotic aka Joseph Allen Muldonno Passage aka Joseph Shrivel. And

116
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 1: you know, to you, Jason Oceans, you're the defense attorney

117
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,440
Speaker 1: joining me. I like nothing better than to read an

118
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 1: indictment in front of the jury and read all the

119
00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 1: aliases of the defendant because very rarely does anybody on

120
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 1: the jury have more than one name. I mean I

121
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,200
Speaker 1: have one name. I think you have one name. But

122
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,200
Speaker 1: when somebody starts adopting different names and going by them,

123
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,640
Speaker 1: you gotta wonder why Joe Jason Oceans. Well, he's a performer,

124
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,440
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's a character live, you know, bigger

125
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 1: than life. That's what you do. You change your name

126
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,599
Speaker 1: when you're part of Hollywood. Yeah, of course, every no

127
00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,320
Speaker 1: one has their real name. But whatever thought of being

128
00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,960
Speaker 1: a zookeeper as being part of Hollywood. But okay, your interpretation,

129
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 1: not my red and roy. I mean that's the area

130
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:09,960
Speaker 1: you're trying to create. Take take us and our friends

131
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,000
Speaker 1: at kfo R. This is news for reporter speaking. Joseph

132
00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 1: Mauldenado Passage, better known as Oklahoma's Tiger Guy Joe Exotic

133
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 1: indicted by a federal grand jury Wednesday on two counts

134
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,760
Speaker 1: of hiring someone to commit murder. The former owner of

135
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: the Greater Winningwood Animal Park at twenty sixteen presidential hopeful

136
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 1: and most recently Oklahoma Libertarian guber tentorial candidate, I ain't

137
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,120
Speaker 1: got myer, I ain't changing the address, arrested by US

138
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,600
Speaker 1: Marshalls in Florida Friday. Current park owners say Maldenado Passage

139
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,960
Speaker 1: was kicked off the property months back and hasn't owned

140
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,680
Speaker 1: the zoo for several years. But it was several years ago,

141
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 1: beginning in February twenty fourteen, that, according to court documents,

142
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,880
Speaker 1: Mauldenado Passage began posting threats on Facebook and YouTube like

143
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:56,959
Speaker 1: this one. You want to know why you never never,

144
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:07,560
Speaker 1: never face to face. Never did you know that you

145
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,320
Speaker 1: were the subject of his possible clock. He's been threatening

146
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,520
Speaker 1: me for years, so there's no doubt in anybody's mind

147
00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:32,200
Speaker 1: who knows him that he intended to kill me. Crime

148
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about a guy

149
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,959
Speaker 1: called Joe Exotic. He named himself Joe Exotic, not his

150
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 1: real name, real name Shrivel, and he's a subject of

151
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,520
Speaker 1: a brand new Netflix hit called Tiger King Murder mayhem

152
00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 1: and madness. But it's real. It's not just a show

153
00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: a program on Netflix. This is real. You were just

154
00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:02,480
Speaker 1: hearing where Joe Exotic says never ever, ever, ever, ever.

155
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't know how many nevers, but bottom line, never

156
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 1: should Carol Baskin see Joe Exotic. It sounds like Nanny

157
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,760
Speaker 1: Nanny boo boo on the playground, But the reality is

158
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,040
Speaker 1: take a listen to part of the Netflix dot Take

159
00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 1: a listen to this. Joe brought it up several times.

160
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,080
Speaker 1: You know, anybody can kill the lady. I just put

161
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 1: it off. As you know, bullet. I came into office

162
00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,559
Speaker 1: one day and he's like, well, I got this crossbowt

163
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,000
Speaker 1: he can use this on her nature trail. Wherever she walks,

164
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,680
Speaker 1: You shoot her with this and nobody'd ever see it.

165
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the okay? You see me walking around

166
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 1: floor with a camouflage suit on. Okay, but a crossbow

167
00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,400
Speaker 1: give me a break. Alan Glover he's an old time

168
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,520
Speaker 1: employee of Jeff. Jeff knows him real well, supposely since

169
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,640
Speaker 1: he has a tear drop tattoo. He's killed somebody before. Well,

170
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,800
Speaker 1: Joe Cannery one day decide the blue. He says, you

171
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,679
Speaker 1: think Alan can kill somebody, I said, is you capable

172
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,880
Speaker 1: of it? I said, of course, who's not. I'll cut

173
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,120
Speaker 1: her head off for you if you want. And he's

174
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,080
Speaker 1: all into that, said you would you let me never

175
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,760
Speaker 1: bring it back? No, no, get rid of in the swamp. Okay,

176
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,240
Speaker 1: we'll do wow. Okay. So how did it suddenly go

177
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,440
Speaker 1: to dctor Bethany Marshall from making threats? As I said,

178
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,080
Speaker 1: it sounds like Nanny Nanny booboo on the playground. You

179
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:32,199
Speaker 1: better not ever ever, never, never, never times ten to infinity,

180
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 1: as I say to the twins, infinity see me face

181
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:41,240
Speaker 1: to face two actually speaking to someone about killing Carol

182
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 1: Baskin with a crossbow. First of all, hold on, let

183
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,200
Speaker 1: me lay the foundation. Michael Kaplan, who is Carol Baskin

184
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,160
Speaker 1: as it relates to Joe Exotic in a nutshell? In

185
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,240
Speaker 1: a nutshell? She owns a place called Big Cat Rescue,

186
00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,720
Speaker 1: which is designed to as an animal refuge, you know,

187
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,680
Speaker 1: for for big cats, for lions and tigers and the like.

188
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 1: And she is a big advocate against people who raise

189
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,920
Speaker 1: who have you know, zoos we can go and pet

190
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,440
Speaker 1: the cubs, because she believes that it's animal abuse. And

191
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,719
Speaker 1: she went after Joe and he didn't like it. He

192
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 1: has that's his whole business is based on being able

193
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,680
Speaker 1: to pet, you know, these cubs, and that's why people

194
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 1: go there. And she went after him, and to you,

195
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 1: doctor Gray Stafford of Zoologic podcast, Doctor Stafford, what was

196
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,040
Speaker 1: it that he, Joe Exotic, was doing that drove Carol Baskin,

197
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 1: the fairy Godmother to Cats so crazy. Well, party was

198
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,880
Speaker 1: that he was raising cubs and using them for photo

199
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,520
Speaker 1: opportunities when they're very young, very small, and raising a

200
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,959
Speaker 1: lot of money that way. And she didn't appreciate the

201
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,120
Speaker 1: uncontrolled breeding and the use of those animals from a

202
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,480
Speaker 1: welfare indpoint that Well, you know, that's a lot of

203
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,040
Speaker 1: big words. I think what you're saying, let me just

204
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 1: boil it down to regular people talk. He gets the

205
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 1: baby tigers and takes them out to malls and basically

206
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,160
Speaker 1: wherever anybody will pay him for photo ops. And then

207
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,000
Speaker 1: the baby tigers, I'm calling them babies. I'm sure you

208
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 1: have a zoological name for them that's proper. Then get

209
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 1: human germs that can make them ill, and they're treated

210
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,480
Speaker 1: more like have you ever seen Dumbo. Let's really break

211
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:34,920
Speaker 1: it down. Have you ever seen Dumbo. Great. Okay, well

212
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,320
Speaker 1: you need to refresh yourself with a new one, or

213
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 1: you've sent you've heard stories forget Walt Disney stories where

214
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:49,360
Speaker 1: animals are kept in chains and mistreated. She's worried about

215
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,840
Speaker 1: the way the tigers are treated. She doesn't want them

216
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: to be just a prop in a show. Is my

217
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 1: understanding of her anger toward him? Am I right or wrong?

218
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,840
Speaker 1: Tell me it won't my feelings? Well, I think she

219
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,280
Speaker 1: she had a personal alliance against him, but she has

220
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 1: been at a zoo for all of her public career.

221
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,640
Speaker 1: She actively works against modern zoos that do credible things,

222
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 1: not just people like Joe exot. Okay, we're getting off

223
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 1: on a tangent. Let's get out of the weeds and

224
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,520
Speaker 1: bat in the middle of the road. What was it

225
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:25,120
Speaker 1: about Joe Exotic? She hated in a nutshell, Gray Stafford,

226
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,920
Speaker 1: uncontrolled breeding and from her point of view, exploiting animals

227
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 1: from money. Got it? Thank you? You know what, once

228
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: you got your PhD, you really started talking a lot more.

229
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 1: But that's a whole other cannon worms. So another issue

230
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 1: happened to Michael Kaplan as it relates to Joe Exotic.

231
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: Carol Baskin sued him for what she discovered. She was

232
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,360
Speaker 1: going after him, and he didn't like it, so he

233
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 1: changed the name of his traveling show to be very

234
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,560
Speaker 1: similar to hers. I mean, her company is called Big

235
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 1: Cat Rescue, and his show had the words Big Cat

236
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,400
Speaker 1: Rescue it and the phone number was very similar to hers.

237
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,760
Speaker 1: And she sued him for copyright infringement. So she sues him.

238
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 1: She's going after him for the way she perceives he

239
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 1: treats the tigers the cats as you guys call them,

240
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,560
Speaker 1: and he doesn't like it. So to get back at her,

241
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,280
Speaker 1: he renames him your Word's not my Michael Kaplan New

242
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 1: York Post. He renames his show Big Cat, and it

243
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 1: makes her mad. Is she sues him for infringement on

244
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 1: the name of her wildlife sanctuary. I think that's the

245
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,760
Speaker 1: way it all goes down. Take a listen to this

246
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 1: from Netflix. Joe put a picture of her property and

247
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,840
Speaker 1: on Facebook and it said finally found where the bitch lives?

248
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 1: What are you doing? You know? What are you stupid?

249
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 1: I'd love to cute cat truth be told. It'd be

250
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,680
Speaker 1: better for the animal industry if Carol wasn't dead. Little

251
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 1: Hearts from the bottom. But he started to concern me

252
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 1: enough when I realized Joe's been gone for complete liability.

253
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 1: We're not done yet. We're still gonna dig up Carrol's ask.

254
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,159
Speaker 1: Before I'm done with this, I'm gonna have the bitches

255
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 1: add in a jar. Joe probably thought I was loyal

256
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,879
Speaker 1: to him and I would never turn on him. I

257
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,720
Speaker 1: told Lauren, I said, you know, I'm Colin James Garretson

258
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,919
Speaker 1: and I want to meet. So jeff Low decided, Hey,

259
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,119
Speaker 1: let's meet at Applebee's. Jeff Low claims Joe's doing all

260
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: this illegal stuff. He said, I wanted to get rid

261
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,040
Speaker 1: of that zoo. I want to get out of that headache.

262
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 1: And I said, call Carrol Baskin can tell her. For

263
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 1: half a million bucks, I will hand her Joe on

264
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,200
Speaker 1: a silver platter with all the crimes I know he's committed. Wow,

265
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,880
Speaker 1: we're hearing a lot. But the words that stuck out

266
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 1: in my mind that really made me sit up straight.

267
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 1: Sheriff Chad Kronister, or the sheriff of Hillsborough County, Florida,

268
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:55,120
Speaker 1: and Carol Baskin's sanctuary. There Sheriff, the words, I want

269
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 1: her head in a jar. Doesn't that sound a lot

270
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,119
Speaker 1: like a terroristic threat to you share you know, but

271
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 1: I tell you, if you watch the documentary, everyone on

272
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,240
Speaker 1: there is eccentric and complicated. But the sad part is

273
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 1: it's all real life. Now. I was just going to

274
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,640
Speaker 1: say that to you, Sheriff with me special gifts, Sheriff

275
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,879
Speaker 1: Chad Chronister, the elected sheriff there in Hillsborough County, Florida.

276
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 1: You know, Sheriff Chronister, again, thank you for being with us.

277
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,159
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say everybody in this

278
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,040
Speaker 1: scenario is eccentric. Well, that may well be true, but

279
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 1: calling for somebody's head in a jar goes beyond. It

280
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 1: crosses the line of eccentricity to a terroristic threat. What

281
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 1: exactly We've been talking about this a lot lately, terroristic

282
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 1: threats as it relates to coronavirus hoaxes and scares doctor.

283
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 1: Excuse me, Sheriff Chronister, When is something a terroristic threat

284
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,119
Speaker 1: as opposed to just bragging and boasting. Well, any with

285
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,360
Speaker 1: any type of threat, the same threshold remains. And that's

286
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,639
Speaker 1: when you take an overt act to carry out that threat.

287
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 1: That's what it becomes problematic. That's what it becomes criminal.

288
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: When you threaten it verbally or an email, text, a

289
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 1: phone call, and then you commit an overt act. It

290
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 1: can be sending an email, it can be leaving a

291
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: phone message when you actually start to do something about

292
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 1: the overt threat. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here. I have

293
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:40,480
Speaker 1: investigated and prosecuted literally thousands of felony cases. I have

294
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 1: covered literally thousands of cases of missing people, adults and children,

295
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 1: unsolved homicides, of violent crimes. My question is what can

296
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:56,200
Speaker 1: we do about it. I don't want to just sit

297
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 1: back and report on it. I want to take action,

298
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: and I know you must feel the same way. And

299
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: here is the news we have all worked so hard

300
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: to bring to you. Don't Be a Victim Fighting Back

301
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 1: against America's Crime Wave a brand new book you could

302
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,479
Speaker 1: pre order now go to crime online dot com. This

303
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 1: book is for everyone. It even includes how to stay

304
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 1: safe while you travel in hotels, if you're abroad, what

305
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: do you do to make sure you come home safely

306
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 1: to your family. Don't be a Victim Fighting Back against

307
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: America's Crime Wave available for pre order now crime online

308
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 1: dot Com. Pre order now and know that portions of

309
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: our proceeds goes to the National Center for Missing and

310
00:20:49,680 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 1: exploited children crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys were talking about,

311
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 1: as he titles himself, Joe Exotic. Take a listen to

312
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 1: our friends over at Netflix. I heard that Joe tried

313
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 1: to hire someone to kill Carol. He's been trying to

314
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: get somebody kill Carol for years, all right. When Jeff

315
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 1: came along, everybody thought Jeff was this multi millionaire and

316
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 1: had all this money and blah blah blah blah blah.

317
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 1: And whenever Jeff got around, Joe got a big head.

318
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:30,360
Speaker 1: And those two we're trying to eat Carroll wept. Why

319
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: are you so convinced of that? Because I was the

320
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: only one there. You were actually there. Yeah, the first

321
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 1: time I met and discussed the whole murder for hire.

322
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: We're sitting in on a meeting Joe's and his little

323
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: office back there. Difflos right here, and they were talking

324
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: about the easiest way to kill Carol. Youah, you cool.

325
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: Cassie Kitten sas Carroll for Big Cat Rescue. It was

326
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: a day where she was riding her bicycle down by

327
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 1: cycle path and she's riding with the wicked Witch of

328
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: the West, and Joe's his look at this bitch. She

329
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: rides this entire bike trail and there's nobody around. He says,

330
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: that's where you gotta hit her. That's where I gotta

331
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: get it. Let me take a shot from the bushes

332
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: and get her right there. Okay, out to you, Cheryl McCollum.

333
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 1: This is no longer just bragging. This is real. They're

334
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 1: taking a look at her bike trail where she walks

335
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: and bikes every day to pick out the location to

336
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: murder her. All because of this lawsuit, which I might

337
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: add she won about a million dollar verdict. So that

338
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: is starting to sound real based on what Sheriff Chad

339
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: Chronister just said. That's an overt act. You're not just

340
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 1: saying I want her head in a jar. You're saying,

341
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: let's pick out her bike path, this is where we

342
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: can kill her. They are plodding, they are planning, They

343
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,239
Speaker 1: are mapping this thing out. Joe is definitely looking at

344
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: you know, on Google Earth. He visited the place. He's

345
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: telling people what he wan't done to her, where he

346
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: wants it done to her, and they're talking about money

347
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: at the straight up murder for high You're right, as

348
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 1: you say, a straight up murder for a hire. Because

349
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: he's gone beyond just bragging about it. Listen to our

350
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: friends at Netflix, and then Jeff Low goes to Good

351
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: Work shows a bike path right by big Ter Rescue

352
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: and stuff, and he's like, oh, you go to sit

353
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 1: right here and then shoot her while she's riding a bike.

354
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: So Jeff Low knew more about this thematics than anything

355
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: that was because I was the only one smart enough

356
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: to bring up the picture on Google Earth and show

357
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: it to Travils. Travis says, I can shoot it from there.

358
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: I can shoot it from there, and Joe was like,

359
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: you're not shooting there because you're my husband and you're

360
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: you'll go to jail forever. I'm looking back. None of

361
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: that gone to mine. Commuter talked, Jeff Lowing knew now

362
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: now Joe talked about killing this woman. If it wasn't

363
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: a daily basis, it was definitely every week as well.

364
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: The bitch still lives another day and says, I'm I'll

365
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: find somebody. He just wasn't a show about it. You're

366
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: hearing our friends at Netflix in their new program Tiger King, Murder,

367
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: Mayhem and Maddness. That's a program. This is real. So

368
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: now to you joining us, Bruce Johnson. Bruce, owner ESP Investigations,

369
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: former crime scene commander in Chicago. Bruce, Now he's got

370
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: the route his call for her head in a jar,

371
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: and he's looked up the route for her murder on

372
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: Google Earth, and it's passing it over to a would

373
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: be hit man. That makes out a bona fidei terroristic threat,

374
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: does it not, Bruce? Yes, it does. But as the

375
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: sheriff mentioned earlier, there are many characters to this plot,

376
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: and a lot of the stuff that Carol was doing

377
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: was not one hundred percent innocent either. Number one, she

378
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: has a missing husband that wasn't fully investigated according to

379
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: the story. Number two, this guy Jess as a convicted

380
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: felon his partner that brought into the scene with the

381
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: drop tattoo Ona's eye, possibly into Conney. He's done a murder,

382
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: is his best is Jeff's best friend. So you got

383
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: this circle of people that are all, wait a minute,

384
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: you know, wait a minute, Bruce Johnson. Cheryl McCollum, founder

385
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: director of Cold Case Researches, did you trying to put

386
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: this thing back together again? Who do you think Joe

387
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: exotics going to hang around with nuns and priests and virgins.

388
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: Of course they're all eccentric, as you guys are saying,

389
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: that's certainly a euphemism putting perfume on the pig, and

390
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: nobody's in this with clean hands. But the reality is

391
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 1: we're talking about a murder plan, Cheryl, that is set

392
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: apart from all of the other eccentricities. Would you not agree?

393
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: I agree? And as my former prostitutor used to say,

394
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: swans don't swim in the sewer. If you are looking

395
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: for somebody to do something for you, look for her.

396
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: You're clearly going to go to the guy that you

397
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: think can pull it off, which used to be in

398
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: a gang, used to be in prison. That's who you're

399
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: going to go to. You know, I forgot. I used

400
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: to say that to juries until you reminded me. Suans

401
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: don't swim in a sewer. Well put, Cheryl McCollum, So

402
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: take a listen to this. As the murder for Higher

403
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: plot thickens. All I knew is Joe had already picked

404
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: out in Glover for the hit, so I told the

405
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: FBI lover was going to actually do it. Nobody at

406
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: the park knew about the undercover stuff, not even Jeff

407
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: Lowe I was sitting at my desk when the phone

408
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: rang and it was FBI. They felt there was an

409
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: effort by Joe to kill Carol. So when I'm told, well,

410
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: there's a credible threat, now, I'm like, there's been a

411
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: credible threat all of this time. You just caught onto

412
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: it in the last few days. We were aware of

413
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: this possibility. It's just that call seriously elevated this. We

414
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: reached out to miss Baskin and I want to say

415
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: November twenty seventeen, and this was at the point where

416
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: we'd heard some recorded phone calls and conversations between mister

417
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: Garrettson and mister Maldon Auto Passage indicating that there was

418
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: in fact a plot coming together. If mister Glover was

419
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 1: leaving to commit this murder, mister Garrettson would have knowledge

420
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: of that straight out to a New York Post investigative

421
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: reporter Michael Kaplan, Michael, how much money are we talking about?

422
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: How much did Joe Exotic aka shrivil Aka Passage offered

423
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: to pay? How much did he actually pay for the

424
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: hit on Carol Baskin They Godmother of Cats. It was

425
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars down payment. I think more to come

426
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: after the job was done. So this guy took the

427
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: three cats. Not that much, Kaplan, three grand. I can

428
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,479
Speaker 1: off you for three grand, don't do it. I mean,

429
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: you know you can max out your credit cards and

430
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: get that much. Okay, I won't. So he actually, though,

431
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: paid over several thousand dollars. How much did he actually

432
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: a handover for the hit? My understanding is it was

433
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: three grand. That's what he gave. I don't know what

434
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: the total sum was going to be, honestly, So that

435
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: was kind of like a down payment. Do you do

436
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: you remember the phrase layaway you'd give let's just pretend

437
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: Sears Roebuck, you know, fifteen dollars for your sweater, so

438
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: by Christmas time you could pay the whole thing off.

439
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: So he put up down three thousand dollars on the hit,

440
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: with the rest guaranteed after the murder. Is that the

441
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: way it worked, Michael Kaplan? I've never done it before,

442
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: but that's my understanding. Well, I think you get the

443
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: basic nuts and bolts of the whole thing. You know,

444
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: one thing that Carol Baskin, who we call today, doesn't

445
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: want to speak, and I'll tell you why later. Sheriff

446
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: Chad Kronister joining me special guests out of share. He's

447
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: the elected sheriff out of Hillsborough County, Florida. When she said, hey,

448
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: this has been happening for years, but you guys just

449
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: caught onto it. Well, had she ever made affordable complaint

450
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: to police about him and death threat? She did not.

451
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: We didn't have. We weren't working anything here on the

452
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: local level now because it was made over state lines.

453
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: It's my understanding that the Feds were involved with it,

454
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: but we were never notified of it here locally. I

455
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: mean Sheriff Chronister. I appreciate her fear that this has

456
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: been threats, had been going on for years, but then

457
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: suddenly stay, hey, you guys just caught onto it. Well,

458
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: you know what if you want the cops to know something,

459
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: that's why we have nine one one. We are talking

460
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: go heck Sheriff absolutely one percent, no different than any

461
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: other areas as a local law of course agency. If

462
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: we believe someone's life is an immediate fear of danger,

463
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: we're going to go there. We'll sign someone that that

464
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: person twenty four hours a day, so we're not going

465
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: to let any harm come to anybody, and to go

466
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: back to your question about how much he was supposed

467
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: to pay him five thousand dollars, he could only come

468
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: up with three. Well, I guess he better get right

469
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: back to them all with all those baby tiger cubs. Guys,

470
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: this guy did not make it a secret. He publicly

471
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: called for Carol Baskin, victim in this case head in

472
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: a jar. Well, that was not lost on a jury.

473
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at News nine Oklahoma City,

474
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: Sylvia Corkuel. We told you that he could take some

475
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: time in order for the jury to come back with

476
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: its verdict, seeing that there were nineteen counts. Ever, after

477
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: just three short hours, nearly four hours, a jury came

478
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: back finding Joseph Maldonado Passage guilty on all nineteen counts.

479
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: Two of those largest ones were the alleged use of

480
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: interstate commerce for murder for hire. They found him guilty

481
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: on those two charges. Remember one of them, he was

482
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: found guilty of paying an individual three thousand dollars in

483
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: order to commit that murder, a former employee, and he

484
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: was also accused of trying to pay an undercover FBI

485
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: agent money as well, though that money never exchanged hands.

486
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: The jury did find him guilty of those charges as

487
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: far as the rest of those charges are concerned something

488
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: that defense called paper crime, seeing that many of them

489
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: were what he considered to be citations. The jury also

490
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: found him guilty on all of those charges, all of

491
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: them surrounding animal crimes, the transport of these animals crime stories.

492
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, we are talking about the now conviction

493
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: of the so called Tiger King muldonno passage shrivil a

494
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: lot of different names. But remember not just the hit

495
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,239
Speaker 1: on Carol Baskin that he forked over thousands to get

496
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: a rival murdered. He hated her in a long time

497
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: grudge match, but also for killing tigers, for killing his

498
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: tigers allegedly to make room for more profitable animals. Nine

499
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: counts of that as well. But you know, you'd think

500
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: that his conviction would be the end of the story.

501
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: But it's not. The Fat Lady. The Fat Lady hasn't

502
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: sung yet. Take a listen to our friends at Netflix.

503
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: What a story. It's so wild, it must not be true.

504
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: That's the first thing people think. Oh, come on, that

505
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: can't be true. It's twenty years ago, cold case. Twenty

506
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: year old murders, don't get solved. Well, it all starts,

507
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: you know Kale Kale Baskin, who was Kale Lewis at

508
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: the time, was married to Don Lewis. Oh, but I

509
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: did see Don Lewis about maybe a month or so

510
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: before he disappeared, and he didn't mention to me that

511
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: he felt his life was in danger. There are so

512
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: many strange twists in that story you would have to

513
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: write books, volumes, and the stuff that went wrong there,

514
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: the lives that are there, all the circumstantial evidence. Somebody

515
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: and something too, Dona. There's a lot of stories about

516
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: Carol having some finger into it, but nobody can prove it.

517
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: In the last hours, the investigation into the disappearance of

518
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: Carol Baskin's husband has been reopened. Why and let me

519
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: stay at the get go. She has not been named

520
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: a suspect or a person of interest in her husband's disappearance.

521
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: First of all, you just heard about quote circumstantial evidence.

522
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: Take a listen one more time to our friends at Netflix.

523
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: Jack don Lewis was last seen on August the eighteenth.

524
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: He was reported missing on the nineteenth by his wife

525
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: at about one thirty in the afternoon. The detectives walked

526
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: the property and drove the property. Now you talking about

527
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: forty acres. Apparently there was nothing there that suggested that

528
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: they should pursue that area any further. Were aerial searches done,

529
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: we found nothing. Then after three or four days, we

530
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: found his van abandoned at an airport with the key

531
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: still in it, his briefcase in it, but no Don Lewis.

532
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: And it didn't make sense, like with what he said

533
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: to me, if you was truly wanting to disappear and

534
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: nobody know where you was at, would you leave your

535
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: van where you got in a plane to take off,

536
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want nobody to know you was in the plane,

537
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: because that's now a clue. Do you think it was planted?

538
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: I think someone else drove the van there. I don't

539
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: know if it was planted there, straight out to New

540
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: York Post investigative reporter Michael Kaplan, Who is Don and

541
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: when did he go missing? He is the first husband

542
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: of Carol Baskin and he went missing in it was

543
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, and he you know. She claims that

544
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: he had apparently he had tried to get a restraining

545
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: order on her. She claims he had Alzheimer's they were,

546
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, not doing great as a couple apparently, and

547
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 1: he was supposed to go on a trip to Central

548
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: America or South America, and his car was found at

549
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: the airport and he basically disappeared into thin air. He

550
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: was never heard from again, and he was apparently quite wealthy.

551
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: Trying to take in everything that you are telling me,

552
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: It's like drinking from a fire hydrant. Michael Calvin joining me,

553
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: investigative reporter, New York Post, my number one favorite newspaper

554
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: in the world. Michael, interesting that last thing you said

555
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: he was very, very wealthy. You know, it seems to me.

556
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: Sheriff Chad Kronister, our special guest, joining me, the elected

557
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: sheriff of Hillsborough County, Florida, where Carol Baskin's animal sanctuary

558
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: was house. Sheriff. It seems to me the first thing

559
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: you try to do is pull up surveillance video from

560
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 1: the parking deck at the airport and check airplane manifest

561
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: do you know. I don't know if you were sheriff

562
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: at that time, but was that done at the time

563
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: or was it believed he just took off so there's

564
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: no reason to investigate. And I wasn't sheriff at the time.

565
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: I've been here twenty eight years as a deputy. But

566
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: even back then, we did check that we checked all

567
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: passenger manifests. Nothing showed up for some reason. And I

568
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: don't completely understand why he had two passports. Neither one

569
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: of them were flagged as he left the country as well,

570
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 1: so even raising even greater Wait a minute, you said

571
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: two passports. Were they in the same name or did

572
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: he have an alias? He had an alias, so it

573
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: was under two different names. Is it with all these

574
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: people having aliases? Okay, so he has two passports that

575
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: you know all, but the fact that he's got two,

576
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: one with the real name, one with an alias. Was

577
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: it an alias or was it another derivation of his name?

578
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: Like I guess I could be Nancy Grace or Nancy

579
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: Lynch or Nancy Grace Lynch. I mean, was it a

580
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: derivation of his real name or was it really a

581
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: fake name on that second passport? Sheriff. Yeah, the easier

582
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: the changing up. Don Lewis Donald is his middle name,

583
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: so one was Jack, one was Don Lewis going by

584
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: two different names. Is Jack part of his real name?

585
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: It is? It's it's it's his real first name. Everyone

586
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: went he went by, he went by his middle names, Donald,

587
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: he went by Don. Okay, and no suggestion that there

588
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: was a third passport, or was there? I mean, you know,

589
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: when you don't know a horse, Cheryl McCollum, you know

590
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: the rest of that. Look at the trick record. He's

591
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: already got two passports, one first name one using second

592
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: name is primary name. But still airport surveillance should show something. Um,

593
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: what do you make of it's Cheryl McCollum. What do

594
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: we have to go on? Well again, Nancy, this is

595
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: a private airport, so it's a smaller airport. It's not

596
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: like he'd, you know, pulled into Hartsfield. Um this case,

597
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: whoa wait? You mean we're chartered planes, correct, and no

598
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: regular carries carriers like Delta or Southwestern, JetBlue, nothing like that.

599
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: Craig didn't need a ticket, Michael Caplan, you didn't tell

600
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: me that. Hello, I mean you can hop on a

601
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: private plane with your library card for Pete's sake. That's true,

602
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 1: that's true, spanky, spanky, Michael Caplan. But wait a minute,

603
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: here's another facet to the whole private plane. There are

604
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: so many less people they would know who came through

605
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: their IFB that day. They I mean, they're like little offices.

606
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: You park your car here, you go into a little office,

607
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: and the plane's right there. They would know if they

608
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: were shown a photo, wouldn't they, Shriff Sheriff Carnister, if

609
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: that person under whatever name was shown up with a

610
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: library card or a fake passport, wouldn't they Shareff, you're

611
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: you're one hundred percent correct. No one recognized them. You

612
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: have to remember two, we're back in nineteen ninety seven.

613
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: There was no surveillance video. We weren't that high tech.

614
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: There was no GPS, there was no cell phone, There

615
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: was no technological advancements that would have helped us today.

616
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: But again check and even private planes have to declare,

617
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: especially going out of the country, who's all that passenger

618
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: manifest there? There was none, no planes that he chartered

619
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 1: her anyways, anyone else chartered that had his name under

620
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: either of those two names? J and say leaving the

621
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: country during that during the time period his disappearance Sheriff chronist.

622
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: Or is it true that the disappearance of Carol Baskins

623
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: then husband has been reopened as an investigation? Well, it's

624
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: it's always been open let me just clarify that a

625
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: cold case is always open, but when you run in

626
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: a dead end. The last thing we did was back

627
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven, and I know I'm going to get

628
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: off face, was when we asked her to come in

629
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: and take a polygraph and she declined. And the year

630
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: before we took DNA samples from all Don Lewis's children

631
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: in case that body was ever recovered, it would be

632
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 1: interned in database when we would be able to track

633
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: it back that way to Cheryl McCollum, what's the theory

634
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: and again, Carol back skin, it's not a poy person

635
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: of interest or suspect. What's the theory? What's the Scuttlebut

636
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: out there from the show, the scuttlebutt is Carol killed

637
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: him and fed him to a tiger for insurance or

638
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: so that you know, he wouldn't take the retrain order

639
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: out against her and he wouldn't leave her because he

640
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: was wealthy. But again, what the sheriff is going to

641
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: have to do is start from ground zero. If there's

642
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: a way to pull the number on one tap, if

643
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: there's a way to look at her statements now versus

644
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: the statements that she made on the show. Did she

645
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: put up flowers? Did she look for him? Did she

646
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 1: call the first wife and beg for help? Did she

647
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: call the daughters and say, I cannot find your dad.

648
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: When did he go missing? Versus when did she reporting

649
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: He's got to build this whole case from ground zero. Well,

650
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: here's the deal, Cheryl McCollum, The love of money the

651
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: root of all evil. On the other hand, this theory

652
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: that she killed him and fed him to tigers, that

653
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 1: sounds like my last book, Murder in the Courthouse, where

654
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to give it away, but I will

655
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: tell you this. Somebody got hot dogs stuff down their

656
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: pants and pushed into the pool at Gator World, so

657
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: into the water. Now you'll have to read it to

658
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: find out the rest. But this sounds like some fantastical

659
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: plot somebody made up. You know what. There's got to

660
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: be more than just rumors, in uendo, gossip and scuttle butt.

661
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: And again, she is not a suspect, she is not

662
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: a person of interests. But I would like to know

663
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 1: what happened to that husband. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing

664
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,479
Speaker 1: off Goodbye friend,