WEBVTT - Part Six: A Complete History of the Illuminati 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:06.120 Ah, Welcome back to the Conspiracy Cast with Robert Evans, 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:12.920 where every week I try to put irresponsibly out something 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:16.440 that sends a chunk of our listeners down a very 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.280 dark road. Now, Margaret, you were just telling us all 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:26.040 that you've been snowed in recently. Yeah, why why don't 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:28.240 you talk to me about that? Just a little bit? Okay, 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.520 it snows. I live rurally. I can only I can 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:33.960 get out with my you know, giant pickup truck or whatever, 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.240 but the mail can't cut up the driveway, the gravel road. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.720 So you you, you were, you were? You know what 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.199 happens when there's so much snow that it's difficult to 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.479 leave your house. How would you describe that state of affairs? 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.760 I love it. I'm a prepper. My house is completely 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.199 self sustaining even if the power out. I like, yeah, Margaret, 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:57.720 is it true that you secretly were in the United 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:03.400 States military and stole government documents? Oh, I'm snowed in. 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.480 That took a lot of setup. That was mostly failure, 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:23.000 but I know it in the end, was it was it? Really? Uh? Yep? 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.319 It sure was. I was surprised that you're you're sticking 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.160 to these like low level. I mean that stuff you 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.640 were just saying is true, but I'm surprised that you 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:36.440 haven't gotten into the real conspiracy about how gold is 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:41.920 actually corrosive and it destroys your brain if you're near 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:46.399 large quantities of it. Wow, Margaret, I mean, what's the 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.960 responsible thing to do then with all of your gold? 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.760 If you have it and you can feel it impacting 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:55.280 your brain, Robert, you should bury your gold. I think 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.000 that's too dangerous. I think people need to send their 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.520 gold to our po box and our actually trained a 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:07.040 romancers will will will decontaminate the gold, um, and and 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.560 find a safe place to bury it. We'll put the 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.680 Midas touch. That's right, that's our motto. Is this the 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.480 last episode of the series. This is the last episode 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.280 of the series. All right, we have to we have 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:19.440 to we have to get we have to get all 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:24.920 of all the last bits in now before him. That's right. Uh. 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.880 And speaking of ending, um, it's about to be the 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:33.240 end of Carrie's life. UM. Not a particularly long life. UM, 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.800 with the exception of Bob Wilson, Uh, none of like 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.840 the kind of most prominent early Discordians live crazy long life. 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.600 There's a couple of them that there's a lot of guys. 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.640 Yeah JFK still bouncing around down in Texas after fighting 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:52.200 that mummy. Yeah. Um yeah, so he's he's kind of 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.040 like the last years of his life he spends rambling 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.320 throughout the South and making zines in Atlanta's little Five 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.239 Points neighborhood. Um, one of the ways he gets by 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.120 kind of he never really makes a profit at it. 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:07.000 But like if you if you send him a dollar, 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.600 he will send you a bunch of random wall newspapers. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:12.919 And if you send him a letter saying I don't 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:14.800 have any money, he'll also send you a bunch of 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:19.040 random wall newspapers. Basically, if you send carry either currency 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.520 or anything else, he'll send you a bunch of his zines. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.280 And that's just he's kind of able to maintain a 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.600 marginal like living by doing that. We do but with gold. 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.120 If you send us gold, we will either send you 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.320 a zine or not. Yeah, one of those two things 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.120 will happen. And if you later encounter razine in like 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:42.040 a bar or something, just assume that was us too, YEA. 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:44.560 In that way, if you don't receive anything, you won't 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.560 feel ripped off. Now, the other thing that's happens in 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.360 this is that like again, all these kind of like 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.280 punk kids are coagulating in little five Points because it's 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.320 a place you can get by without having sort of 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.680 a very regular income. There's not like a lot of 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.480 attention from the local government on that part of down yet, 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.880 and all of these people, particularly a lot of young 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.200 punk ladies, find Carrie and kind of adopt him as 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:14.160 a guru. Um he should not be yes, um this 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.920 there there are some problems with this, these these young 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:21.240 women who call themselves the thorn Lyett's um. Because that's 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.760 not that's not good for Carrie. That's not the thing 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.480 what this guy's brain needs. UM. Now Again, Carrie never 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:33.000 seeks treatment in or help in any meaningful way. UM, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.719 and his conspiratorial beliefs continue to evolve. This starts with 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:38.520 kind of his anger at his ex wife, but it 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:41.760 eventually he becomes convinced that both her and every woman 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.400 that he has ever slept with, like every woman who 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.240 approaches him, who hits on him, are all part of 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.760 a conspiracy. They're all Nazis who were secretly sent over 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.360 to the United States to have sex with him and 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:58.520 breed a future fearer. UM. No, though he is. He 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.640 is just like fully solid into his own his own 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.840 hole that he does yeah, yeah, and you know that's 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:10.719 actually very sad. But it is also like the kid 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.920 on TikTok. There's a kid on TikTok who's like a 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.520 fan fiction kid who like does yeah, some sort of 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.200 part of nerd culture I'm not familiar with, but he 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.360 has convinced himself that he's the reincarnation of Adolph Hitler 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.479 and has gotten a like nose piercing that when his 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.000 Harris styled a certain way, he looks kind of like, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.640 honestly not a bad resemblance. And I'm gonna be again, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.600 to be totally fair, if Hitler was reincarnated, that's exactly 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:51.240 the kind of person he'd be in twenty twenty three. Robert, Yeah, 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.080 Robert can't take all the blame for that one. No, no, 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.200 get it, get get get ready for the six part 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.960 series on twink Hitler. Oh, that's that's going to be 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:06.520 more than six parts. Garrison Behind the Twinkler. We're just 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:11.120 launching a new weekly. Oh god, keeping up with him. Um. So, 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.919 one thing that seems undeniable is that Carrie's belief in 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.839 a conspiracy behind the JFK assassination only deepened with time. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:22.839 He came to be convinced that he was a central 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.440 part of the plot, and one of his last public 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.400 appearances was in nineteen ninety two on a TV show 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.360 called A Current Affair. We're gonna play a segment from 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.040 this let's just let's just watch this incredible piece of 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:42.320 nineteen nineties television starring our friend Carrie Thornley. He emerges 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.520 from the shadow, Okay, grim shadows that have cost up 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:49.599 all over a man with a frightening secret, a terrible boast. 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:55.400 I wanted to shooting. I wanted to assassinate him very much. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.400 You've just seen and heard a man called Carrie Thornley 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.440 use the exotic background of New Orleans as his headquarters 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.640 for a deranged plot to assassinate President John F. Kennedy's 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:11.120 one regret his good friend of marine buddy Lehi Voswald 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.400 got there before him. In fact, he was so close 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.440 to Oswald that he even read a book about him 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.920 before the assassination. Now again, listen to the words that 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.840 Terry Thornley and shot up. I wanted him dead. I 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:26.760 would have shot him myself. I would have stood there 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:28.520 with a rival and pulled the trigger if I'd had 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.680 the chance. Terry Thornley talked for the first time in 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:37.480 history about the hybrillest competition imaginable a rate to kill 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:41.960 President Kennedy, and Thornley wants the world to know he tried. 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.320 He's heart I told the Secret Service. I said, the 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.720 only reason I didn't kill him was because I wasn't 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:48.559 in the right place at the right time with a gun. 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.320 The world met Terry Thornley in the nineteen sixty four, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:56.200 So you see what's happened here at number one, Kerry. 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.960 It's moved on from like you know, I was mind 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:02.320 controlled to like I had my own plan to kill Kennedy, 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.800 and I was like fighting with Oswald to pull it off. 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.200 But what's really happening here, more than anything, is that 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.680 these like sleazy daytime TV fucks are using a very 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.760 sick man in order to make content, Like this is 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.880 his mustache. They stole his mustache. He does have like 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:23.800 an amish beard do, but that's pretty messed up, like 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.160 he's they it's very They're like framing all of this 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.000 almost like an episode of like Unsolved Mysteries. In between 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.160 as they cut through to like this footage of Carrie 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:36.920 walking down like a darkened street and everything. It's pretty exploitative. 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.240 But yeah, that's kind of like the last big public 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.839 thing that Carrie does. And I'm not one for conspiracy theories. 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.720 It is kind of sad. I'm not, you know, one 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:54.080 for conspiracies, but from just in order to be perfectly responsible, 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.079 I do think I need to show you both the 0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.880 logo for the show that he has his last appearance on. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.199 Oh it's a pyramid. It's a pyramid. Yeah, there's a 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:09.040 pyramid directly behind the current affair logo. So interesting. Interesting, 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.640 What a year was this? Um, this is nineteen ninety two, 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:14.920 So this is this is a year after after he 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.319 published zen Archy, which is kind of one of one 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.480 of a weirdly long lasting text that he wrote towards 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:25.320 the end of his life. Yeah. Um, and yeah, that's 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:27.840 that's kind of his last like TV type appearance, although 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:29.920 I think the last appearance he actually makes is right 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.920 before he passes on. He dies in ninety eight. Um, 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.280 a bunch of because Discordians were some of the very 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.040 first people on the Internet. We're talking like Usenet days, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.880 and like there were a bunch of different kind of 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.360 fan websites to Thornley and Bob Anton Wilson and all 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.560 all of these other guys, and one of them gets 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.480 him and like sits down with him and conducts a 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.600 live chat session interview where a bunch of Discordians around 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:56.800 the world are able to like ask him questions. And 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.440 I think it's one of the first times anyone had 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.560 done this. This is the late nineteen nine, so there's 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.040 not a lot of people who beat him to that 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.760 sort of thing. That is now like the language through 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:10.480 which fandoms are conducted, which is also interesting. I was 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:16.240 terminally online in the late nineties and I was telling 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.640 Garrison about this, that a lot of overlap with them 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.440 Discordian and especially like Church of SubGenius and all of 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.480 these sorts of things, and so it's just like that 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.320 just really tracks to me. And it was like these 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:31.240 like slightly older people who were like the cool weirdos 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.160 on the internet that I was like, whoa, look at 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.200 these cool weirdos on the Internet. I would go on 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:41.720 IRC chat and like, yeah, meet all these Discordians. Now. Unfortunately, 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.360 Carrie in the state that he's in, is not taking 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.560 He's not like visiting a doctor regularly, and he also 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:55.040 just doesn't have access to particularly good healthcare, and this 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.880 becomes particularly a problem when he gets evicted by the city. 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:00.959 They kind of like coming in clean house and Little 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:02.959 five Points and kick out a lot of like the 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.800 crusty radicals. And so he and a bunch of yeah 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.600 these kids all wind up sleeping in a very specific 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.840 forest in Atlanta, where he gets sick and is eventually 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:18.880 hospitalized and dies. Um. Wild. That happens in November of 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:23.000 nineteen ninety eight. He is sixty years old when this occurs. Um, 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:29.600 And uh, yeah, I think that's interesting. Um. And that's 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.800 the specific forest that is now being turned into copsody 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.080 as far as I can tell. Yeah, I mean it's 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.760 it's right outside a Little five Points. If if you 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:39.680 have more details on that, I could I could probably 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.480 confirm that, um, if he has not found them, but 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.719 I yeah, it's worth looking into because it I mean, 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.680 it is the Melanni Forest is just like a few 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.840 miles directly south from Little five Points. There is there's 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.000 a road that connects you straight from from a Little 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.079 five Points towards to that section of the forest. The 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.160 late eighties that we're sorry, in the late nineties. That 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.720 that would have been right right after the city shut 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.360 down that area of forest that operated as a prison farm. Um, 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.320 so that would have been it would kind of entered 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.760 its first stage of like not really being used for 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:19.600 anything for the next like twenty twenty years or so. Yeah. Um, yeah, 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.280 it's it's not a kind of thing I know exactly. 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:23.920 They just say, like the forest kind of near a 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.480 little five points but interesting. Yeah, it's kind of one 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.559 of the last places he spends any time. So he's 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.440 actually still living. I'm sorry this all making up conspiracy 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.880 things too much fun. Still living under the forest, and um, 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:37.680 I don't know where to go from there. If only 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.760 um obviously he is not a man who had an 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.760 easy life. The high Discordian leaders did not in general 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:49.079 have easy lives. Um. Greg Hill, as we've said, kind 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:53.040 of collapses mentally after his divorce from his wife. Um, 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.800 he gets a job. He eventually becomes a like upper 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:01.680 mid level executive at Bank of America. Oh that's well, yeah, 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.120 it's even sadder than that, because he will work as 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.720 a bank executive during the day and then for the 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.679 rest of his life he just comes home. He does 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.040 not interact with anyone and he drinks himself to death. 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:15.040 He drinks himself to death like it's a job. Yeah, 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:18.520 and that is that is how Greg Hill leaves the world. 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.400 Robert Anton Wilson lives the longest of the guys we've 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.959 been talking about, into the early two thousands. He is 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:31.199 a much healthier person. There are some like criticisms of him. 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.560 He kind of he has some like very specific critiques 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.239 of feminism that I think some people have uncharitably compared 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.040 to being an early men's rights advocate. That's not actually 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.120 what I mean. From one thing, his wife was a 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.760 fairly influential feminist activist in her day. He had a 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.240 lot of specific issues with specific things certain feminists were 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.440 saying that he criticized, but was not like anti woman 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.520 in any particular way. Now he is. He is a 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:00.840 guy in who's writing shit in the sixties and seventies, um, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.760 which falls over time, right, Like there's some misogyny you 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:07.680 can find in this early stuff. It also afferent, yeah, yeah, 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:09.400 at the time when a lot of the feminism is 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:13.160 specifically anti porn. Also yeah, yeah, he is someone who 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.280 changes over time. And nothing that I've seen of his 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.480 is like like hateful, you know, like, he's not like 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:20.680 a cool or a violent person. He's just you know, 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:22.280 if you if you go in and read a bunch 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.240 of his stuff, you'll find some stuff that doesn't age 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.600 well and some stuff that you disagree with, which is 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.280 going to be the case with everybody who thought of 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.240 things that were interesting at any point in history. Not me, 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:40.000 not not Margaret future actually hum yeah, and and not me. 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.080 You can find Maya. It's actually kind of a sequel 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.760 to zinn Anarchy. It's called put the lead back in 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.000 the gas tanks. Comma fuck them kids, And it's sort 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.520 of my manifesto. UM. And I think really people are 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.280 going to get a lot of good out of that. 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.400 I also think bicycle helmet should be illegal, So you know, 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:01.080 check that book out. Follow my five pillars of making 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:07.120 sure children don't graduate school at accelerated rates, um, all 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.040 good stuff. School zone speed limit should be fifty five 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.560 miles an hour. It's interesting because as we're kind of discussing, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.600 like the the end of the lives of these people, UM, 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.320 a few years before of a few years before Greg 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:26.400 Hill died, he gave an interview UM to loom Panics. Yeah, 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.760 he is like a was a publisher for both weird 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.000 left wing and right wing Esota Rica. Yeah. Yeah, yeah 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.600 that he he He talked about how, like his pen 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.280 name Maloclipse the younger he like described it as like 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.760 as like a spirit that like entered him and he 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:45.000 was he was, he was, he was, he was. He's 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.120 able to like channel writing through through the spear, which 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.040 is why he credited the work to to this to 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.840 to to this entity. But he also says that like, um, 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.600 that the entity kind of left him once. Yeah, once 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.120 Principia was writing, he kind of like it left and 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.520 like that. Yeah, part of him is like it like 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.960 disappeared over time. We'll actually talk a little bit more 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:10.840 about that in a second. I've got to call from him. 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:15.520 You'll find interesting, Oh awkward interjection. Robert forgot to do 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.520 the ad break back when he was supposed to. So 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.200 we're editing this in crudely, probably in the middle of 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.080 a sentence being spoken by Garrison, and we'll probably come 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.400 back from this ad break mid sentence spoken by Garrison, 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:36.160 just to fuck with him. But yeah, Bob Wilson is 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.040 the guy who kind of lives the longest and he 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.080 you know, the last years of his life are racked 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.240 with pain due to post polio syndrome, but he remains 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.080 extremely productive. And the thing that he has that that 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.480 I don't think really any of the others had, particularly 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.080 not Hillan Thornley. Bob Wilson is a weirdo. He's into 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.400 all this esoteric shit. He's also a professional, like a 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:59.360 professional writer who writes for a massive publication. He knows 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.240 how to pack gage ideas in ways to get a 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.760 lot of people to pay attention to them. And so 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.720 it's Bob Wilson. It's his work that's going to kind 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.720 of bring Discordianism to its widest audience and also have 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:16.119 the biggest long term cultural impact in mainstream conceptions of 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.920 the illuminati, because that's the thing that Wilson does the most. 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.880 That Wilson's work does the most. In nineteen seventy five, 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.120 Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shay, his fellow editor at Playboy, 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.160 start to publish a series of three novels, eventually known 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.679 as the Illuminatus Trilogy. The book is a very weird 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.200 piece of fiction. One of the things they're doing during 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.919 this is like every chapter, basically they switch off, and 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.880 so they were kind of trying to write each other 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.240 every chapter into a corner that the other couldn't get 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:50.439 out of. Assos. I know, it's it's not structured the 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.680 way most books are. The foundational premise is that all 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.119 conspiracy theories, even the conflicting ones, are true, and the 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.600 history of the world is largely determined by a secret 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.520 war waged between the all controlling Illuminati and the Discordians, 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.600 who are like the insurgents fighting against the Illuminati and 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.120 also are part of the Illuminati. It's a very it's 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.800 that kind of book. Um And again, one of the 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.800 things actually because like they're everyone is a double agent, right, 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.520 and like the Discordians are actually deeply enmeshed in the Illuminati. 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.520 One of the things that's happening here that Wilson is 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.679 talking about is the fact that if you were a 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.919 radical in the sixties, you came to the realization that 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.280 like a significant chunk of the people you organized with 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.640 were Feds, and so like that's one of the reasons 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.479 why all of this is like that's such a like 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.760 there's so many different like quadruple agents and stuff in 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.879 this in this series. Um, so it's just like working 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:45.359 for like mainstream publications Uh, yeah, you're you're critiquing capitalism 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.600 or participating capitalism. And I don't actually think that's like 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:52.000 bad obviously, but it's it's messy, and I could leave 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.360 you with that sort of sense of yeah, and it's 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.479 it's it's a very messy book. And so this is 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:03.280 a hugely influential book. You know, we'll talk about this 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.600 in a second, but like you, it's one of those 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:09.840 things that's influential in ways that are mostly not super visible, 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.960 because when people put hints and references to this stuff 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.840 in their work, they're often very coy about it. And 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.000 just because of how influential this was and sort of 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.240 conceptions of the illuminati and conspiracies, a lot of it's 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:26.720 faded into the background since then. But yeah, I want 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:28.080 to I think probably the best way of kind of 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:31.840 talking about the way this stuff works is the idea 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.680 of the twenty three enigma, which is a big thing 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:40.320 in the Illuminatis trilogy, and it's it's basically like one 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.240 of the things that Wilson does in this book is 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:46.120 he finds there's all these different specific dates in history 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.880 that are influential that involve the number twenty three. There's 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.120 a lot of like very specific fucked up historical shit 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.000 that happens in nineteen twenty three, and he'll he'll pull 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.520 all of these different dates in moments and stuff together, 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.919 because if you start listing enough stuff like that, the 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.280 kind of pattern recognition chunk of your brain lights up 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.439 and you start to attach a specific like significance to 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.800 the number twenty three. And so, like Wilson's kind of 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.240 goal here, this was another little way of bringing people 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.800 to Chapel perilyss is if you kind of like list 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.080 out all these different ways that the number twenty three 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.760 is significant in history, maybe people will start to question 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.719 whether or not the Illuminati is like picking spis you know, 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.440 is there a conspiracy that's doing certain things, that's carrying 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.439 out all these assassinations and revolutions on dates that have 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.200 a twenty three in them. Are they doing it because 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.120 like they're trying to signal to people what they're doing. 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.640 Is this some sort of message or is it just like, yeah, 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.800 you know, a bunch of like like, if there's enough 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:44.640 things happening in the world that if you like pull 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.120 out every significant event that happened on the twenty third 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.680 day of a month, you'll get a bunch of weird shit, right, 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.639 which is the where I tend to land on things. 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.520 But this kind of like works never one. If you 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.040 read the Illuminatus trilogy, you're going to wind up like 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.679 just noticing twenty three's forever, but also because of how 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.680 influential the books are, sit down and watch the fucking wire, right, 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.480 and see how many twenty threes you see on the 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:12.600 back of squad cars or in people's shirts and jackets. 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.400 Watch like any big show and keep an eye out 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:17.919 for the number twenty three, and you'll note that it 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.479 shows up more often than it seems like it should. 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.000 And is this just because Michael Jordan is a popular 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.760 basketball player? That's certainly some of it, or does a 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:29.000 lot of it have to do with the fact that 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.040 a bunch of the people who were making, particularly the 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:34.040 TV shows that were big in the late nineties early 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.720 two thousands, had been fans of this stuff and stuck 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.520 twenty threes into their work. Well, that's also the case. 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.640 And because of how effectively Bob does this, and how 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.200 many people pick up on this and start sticking twenty 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:49.440 threes into art and television and stuff, a conspiracy and 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.760 actual conspiracy develops over the number twenty three, that it's 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.760 somehow tied, you know, the secret society running the world, 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.200 which culminates in a two thousand and seven film starring 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:02.200 Jim Carrey titled twenty three. I've never even heard of 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.800 this movie. Oh yeah, it was, it was. It was 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:06.960 a big deal back in the day. I guess this 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:11.080 is like really lived under a rock. Yeah, But I mean, 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:13.840 the thing that Bob Wilson is doing is he's he's 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.280 basically taking advantage of the human brains gift for pattern recognition, 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:20.919 because it can kind of, for one thing, when you 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.199 get people locked into this pattern than when you reveal 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.480 things that have to do with like the number twenty three, 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:28.879 it feels like more of a reveal, Right, it just 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.240 kind of like works narratively. And also Bob Wilson liked 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:36.240 fucking with people, and this like had a clear impact, 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:38.520 but it also has kind of formed. This is the 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.200 baseline of a lot of the tactics that are used 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:45.600 by conspiracists today because the way that social media works, 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:49.120 if you can start like seeding in references to conspiracies 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.119 in a bunch of ways that go viral when people 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:54.520 start seeing all this shit popping up on their timeline, 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:56.159 and maybe it comes up on their timeline in a 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:58.560 moment that's particularly significant to them, and then they put 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:00.960 more weight into it. Like all of this stuff is 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:03.320 a lot easier to do. Bob had to draw you 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:07.080 in to a thousand page fiction book to like tweak 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:09.840 people's heads with this shit. Now you can do that 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:13.000 at scale using algorithms on Twitter and YouTube and shit. 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.679 And I'm saying people have it's like publicity stuff. It's like, 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.680 in publicity, you expect someone to not buy a product 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:22.760 until like the tenth time they hear it. And this 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.920 is this is true for fucking anarchists and radicals and whatever. Also, right, 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:29.320 like like if you're trying to sell a book or 0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:31.200 you're trying to get people to have interest in a book, 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:33.720 they're not going to do anything about it the first 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:35.880 several times they hear it. And so it is really 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:40.200 interesting that it's the same strategy. Yeah, and it's it's 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:43.800 the goal of my operation. Mind fuck Bob Wilson's goal. 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:46.080 And these guys are all folks who are on the left. 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.280 They're all people who are also activists. Is like to 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:53.560 kind of Robert Guffey, who's written a book called Operation 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:56.199 mind Fucking. Writes about this, summarizes the goal is like 0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:59.000 they want to break the trance that kept America at war, 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:02.000 blindly consuming and oblivious to its impact on the rest 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.439 of the world, destabilize the dominant cultural narrative through pranks 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:08.600 and confusion like that was essentially the goal. But as 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:11.879 Guffey notes, over the ensuing decades, it was the progressive 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:15.800 left whose ideas wound up being mainstreamed really from all 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:18.560 in the family onward. It was progressive values in fictional 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:21.480 TV maud to Mash Murphy Brown to the West Wing, 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:24.800 and as that became the dominant cultural narrative, Operation mind 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:27.960 fuck became a tool of the old right. And that 0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:31.679 is over time kind of what you see is as 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:34.160 a lot of the stuff, not all of it. Obviously 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:36.640 these guys are much more radical than the fucking West Wing. 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:40.359 But as some of this, like these attitudes towards um, 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:44.080 you know, militarism and shit, and and attitudes towards like, 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:48.960 you know, sexual liberation and u like that kind of stuff, 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:52.040 like radical political equality and whatnot, as those become more 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:59.159 mainstreamed them the it's like the toolbox loses its power 0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:02.120 for that side. Right, but becomes a more powerful tool 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:05.520 of the people who are now kind of the insurgents. Yeah, 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:08.439 and that's kind of the point that Guffey is making. 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:11.480 There's degrees to which I disagree with him, but I 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:13.679 think he's kind of like broadly looking at this in 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:16.760 a way that's that's that's useful. Well, So we don't 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:20.800 why we don't a sign, like we don't hold tactic 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:25.160 sacred is because like tactics themselves are applicable in certain 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:27.359 contexts and not another context and can be used by 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:29.480 all kinds of people. So if there's not a moral 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:32.720 weight attached to a tactic, then I don't feel bad 0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:35.600 if the right wing is using Operation mind fuck type stuff, 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:37.840 because of course they are, because if they're the underdogs, 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:40.200 that's what they'll use. Like, yeah, it's like I said, 0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:42.280 it's a gun on it on the table, right, Yeah, 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:44.240 that's what they've done, is they've built a gun and 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:46.800 they set it down on a table. Um. You know, 0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:48.720 they try they used it first, and we can. I 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:51.160 think it's you know, arguable, like the degree to which 0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:54.880 it was successful or not. Um. And I do think 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:59.080 it's interesting because one of the things, like we're trying 0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:01.520 both to talk about sort of the broader impact on 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:06.600 American politics and culture that the aftershocks of Operation mind 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:08.639 Fuck had. But the other story is the impact that 0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:12.280 it had on like conspiracy culture itself and even like 0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:14.960 the conception of the Illuminati. And this has a lot 0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:17.720 to do with the fact that, again, Robert Wilson and 0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:22.159 Robert Shay are both really good writers from like a 0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:25.679 capitalist standpoint in terms of their ability to write things 0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:29.240 that spread and can be sold, and this has led 0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:31.760 a lot of creators to adapt their work. They're also 0:26:32.320 --> 0:26:34.800 very influenced by HP Lovecraft, who was kind of an 0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:40.639 early creative commons advocate in a lot of ways, like 0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:42.639 they wouldn't have used those terms, but he was this 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:45.600 advocate of, like, yeah, people should be taking my stories 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.240 in this mythos that I've built in writing their own 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:51.320 stories in it. And that's also kind of the attitude 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:53.640 that Wilson and Shay seem to have towards a lot 0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:56.240 of this. And so a lot of people adapt versions 0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:59.800 of the Illuminatis trilogy. And this leads to in the 0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:03.639 early nineteen nineties when Kerry Thornley is going on that 0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:06.520 TV show to talk about how he was racing his 0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:10.240 buddy Oswald to kill Kennedy. A little Austin based pen 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.640 and paper game company called Steve Jackson Games makes a 0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:16.320 card game, and Steve Jackson Games makes a lot of 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.080 card games. They Munchkin is probably their biggest seller now. 0:27:19.280 --> 0:27:21.200 But they make a game in the early nineties called 0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:25.040 Illuminati New World Order, and it's based in part on 0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:27.840 the Illuminatis trilogy and in part on just like Shit 0:27:28.000 --> 0:27:32.040 in the News. And the nineteen ninety four edition of 0:27:32.040 --> 0:27:36.120 this game includes a card called Terrorist Nuke and Margaret 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:39.479 how she described that card. That is a picture of 0:27:39.520 --> 0:27:43.520 the World Trade Centers being blowed up, and not blowed 0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:46.640 up from the bottom, like, no, not from the bottom, 0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:52.160 from about where that plane hit it. Yeah, this card 0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:55.720 gives plus ten power or resistance your choice to any 0:27:55.800 --> 0:27:59.320 violent group you control with violent is capacitalized. Well, it 0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:02.960 certainly gave plus ten empower to the American government. There's 0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:05.800 another card. I forget what it's called, but it just 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:09.560 it shows the Pentagon exploding in a particular section and 0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:12.919 the way that the Pinnagonics. Yeah, I mean the band 0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:16.080 the Coup put out like them hanging out in front 0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:18.719 of some blowed up world towers like I think that 0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:21.960 week or some shit like it's just an idea whose 0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:26.080 time had Am I gonna finish that sentence? No, but 0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:29.920 certainly it was an image that many people had thought 0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:32.760 of before it happened. That is, like, there's even stuff 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:35.160 like in the Simpsons. There is there's stuff all over 0:28:35.920 --> 0:28:39.320 of things resembling nine to eleven that happened in like 0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:43.240 the two decades prior. I will say none of them 0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:46.800 quite as much as this reson. Yes, absolutely, it is 0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:51.640 a little striking yeah. Um. Now, the almost startling pressions 0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:53.920 of this card, and the fact that it came from 0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:56.800 a card game called Illuminati New World Order led to 0:28:56.920 --> 0:29:01.080 viral conspiracy theories that the actual Illuminated had faked the 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:03.840 nine to eleven attacks and used this card game as 0:29:03.880 --> 0:29:07.840 what Alex Jones called predictive programming to seat awareness of 0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:11.800 their crimes. The crowning moment of this particular conspiracy theory 0:29:11.800 --> 0:29:15.080 came when Osama bin Laden was assassinated in twenty eleven. 0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:18.320 The CIA gained access to his hard drive, and the 0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:21.120 contents of this hard drive are now all publicly available. 0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:25.920 They contain a PDF titled smoking Gun Proof that Illuminati 0:29:26.000 --> 0:29:28.960 planned terrible events many years ago to bring down our culture. 0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:31.920 The article that follows is an exhaustive dissection of the 0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:38.240 Illuminati card game on Osama Bin Laden's hard drive. Again, 0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:40.960 Steve Jackson's game must have made bank off of this. 0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:44.800 They were just sitting back being like, yeah, yeah. The 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:47.240 other thing that happens right around this time is they're 0:29:47.240 --> 0:29:50.480 making like a cyberpunk role playing game, which includes a 0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:54.680 bunch of hacking shit. And because the FBI, especially in 0:29:54.720 --> 0:29:58.240 the early nineties, is not very doesn't know anything about computers, 0:29:58.640 --> 0:30:02.160 they like freak Out and aid Steve Jackson games. So like, 0:30:02.240 --> 0:30:04.960 after this comes out, there's a massive federal raid on 0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:09.120 this gaming company. It's all a coincidence. I mean, this 0:30:09.760 --> 0:30:11.640 is and especially when this shit shows up on Ben 0:30:11.720 --> 0:30:14.040 Laden's hard drive, like this is a lot of people's 0:30:14.080 --> 0:30:17.120 chapel perilous moment, right Yeah, you're like, why how would 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:21.800 this be in his hard drive? And obviously there had drive. 0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:24.840 There was so much shit, including like all of the 0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:28.880 fucking Looney Tunes cartoons you could ever want um. But 0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:31.000 if you're if a part of your brain at any 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:33.240 point this went like, huh, I wonder if something we're 0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:36.200 just going on I mean you know, that's Operation mind 0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:41.800 Fuck working as intended. Um. Now, the Illuminatus Trilogy ironically 0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:45.120 made the Illuminati reel to millions of people. This is 0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:47.400 due in part to the relevance of the books themselves. 0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:51.040 In the late nineteen eighties, the Illuminatus Trilogy was made 0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:54.240 into a stage play, which was so popular it launched 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:57.760 the careers of Bill Night and Jim Broadbent. The Queen 0:30:57.800 --> 0:31:02.880 of England attended the opening. Um. It is a weirdly 0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:08.760 influential play. UM. So uh yeah, the Queen of England 0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:12.560 attends this play based on this ridiculous series of books. Um. 0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:15.760 And of course Illuminati imagery. We're just we're posting this 0:31:15.880 --> 0:31:18.720 on a day when like Elon Musk posted an Illuminati meme. 0:31:19.120 --> 0:31:22.480 Jay Z and Beyonce have incorporated Illuminati symbolism in that 0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:25.000 their acts, which have convinced a lot of people that 0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:29.440 they are, in fact in the Illuminati. Um. In twenty fifteen, 0:31:29.640 --> 0:31:33.280 research suggested that about half the US population believes in 0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.920 at least one conspiracy theory, and one of the most 0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:39.680 popular is the existence of the Illuminati. I suspect it's 0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:44.520 probably over half at this point. The QC theory a 0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:49.160 lot has happened to reality since twenty fifteen. And honestly, 0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:53.800 if you stopped happen, reality stopped existing. Yeah, well, I 0:31:53.840 --> 0:31:57.120 mean consensus reality took a big hit. We all there 0:31:57.120 --> 0:31:59.160 were It's almost like, you know, if you want to 0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:04.440 use society is like, uh, some fucking like worm traveling 0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:07.400 through the soil. We hit a rock and burst into 0:32:07.440 --> 0:32:10.960 pieces and like that's now You've got a bunch of 0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:13.800 little worms that formed out of the carcass of that 0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:16.520 big worm. And we're all tunneling in different directions and 0:32:17.480 --> 0:32:20.560 some of us have wound up in piles of shit. Huh, yeah, 0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:23.760 I know that maybe is better. I use it as 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:26.520 the like the way of understanding majority reality is like 0:32:26.520 --> 0:32:29.040 the ice is thicker where more people are and stuff, 0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:31.880 and like out on the edge is like where some 0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:34.320 of the more fringe things happens, and there's no value 0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:37.040 in something being fringe or not right, like much like 0:32:37.280 --> 0:32:41.200 Operation mind Fuck. It's like there's no value fucking people's heads. 0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:43.520 And so yeah, sometimes it just feels like we fucking 0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:47.280 the ice flow just split in half. Yeah, and this 0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:51.520 is um you know, obviously, like Q went on, conspiracy 0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:55.680 theory is a rebranded Illuminati conspiracy theory. They are taking 0:32:55.680 --> 0:32:58.400 the joke that these guys made about how the CIA 0:32:58.480 --> 0:33:00.560 and the Republican Party and the Democrat Party and the 0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:02.960 anarchists and YadA YadA, we're all, you know, part of 0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:06.600 the conspiracy together. The actors just taking universities, the people 0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:11.400 in the media. They even even even the current fucking 0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:15.840 stuff with like you know, the the the elites pushing 0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:18.720 gender ideology and all, like the antitrans stuff is just 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:21.000 is just another version of the Illuminati. Like it's all 0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:23.560 the same shit. And if any of those people would 0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:25.840 get my pronouns right, as if any of the people 0:33:25.880 --> 0:33:28.600 that they think are like controlling and trying to make 0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:32.680 everyone trans would like fucking get my pronouns right. Yeah. Well, 0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:37.040 and it's it's interesting too because um uh, what you 0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:39.960 actually kind of see here because it's not just the 0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:43.520 Discordians that like Discordian attitudes towards the Illuminati that have 0:33:43.560 --> 0:33:45.440 been taken up by Q and on. They're kind of 0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:48.400 merging the Discordian depiction of the Illuminati with the John 0:33:48.400 --> 0:33:51.760 Birch Society's depiction of the Illuminati. So like like that's 0:33:51.800 --> 0:33:53.640 really what you've seen happen here, which is such a 0:33:53.680 --> 0:33:55.800 strange thing, but I don't see any other way to 0:33:55.880 --> 0:34:00.400 kind of parse out the intellectual DNA of this movement. Um. Yeah. 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:03.440 And it's interesting because at this point, for one thing, 0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:05.920 some of the first people to recognize what was happening 0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:09.200 with the alt right and like what was happening kind 0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:12.440 of with all of these different social movements, these right 0:34:12.440 --> 0:34:15.040 wing social movements that have spread through conspiracies over the 0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:18.640 Internet were old Discordians, and a lot of these people 0:34:18.640 --> 0:34:20.399 have kind of come to the conclusion that not only 0:34:20.440 --> 0:34:23.279 did Operation mind Fuck fail in its initial noble goal, 0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:25.800 but it had been subverted and turned into a weapon. 0:34:25.800 --> 0:34:28.560 And I'm going to quote from Guffey here again. The 0:34:28.640 --> 0:34:31.800 parallels between the Discordian goddess Heiress and the Egyptian frog 0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:34.319 headed god Keck should be obvious. Both were created to 0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:37.880 represent the spirit of chaos, disruption, and anti authoritarianism, and 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:41.400 many Altright memes, Keck resembles Donald Trump with a froglike face. 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:44.520 Oddly enough, depicting Trump as a half human half reptilian 0:34:44.560 --> 0:34:46.680 hybrid is meant to be a compliment to the president. 0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:49.719 In the nineteen nineties, conspiracy theorist David Ike grew to 0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:52.480 fame by traveling around the world accusing various world leaders 0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:56.040 of being shape shifting reptilians in disguise. Today, Trump supporters 0:34:56.080 --> 0:34:58.279 clothe him in a reptilian form as a tribute they 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:00.920 perceive him to be a cold blooded agent of pure chaos. 0:35:01.920 --> 0:35:04.680 I was literally just looking up all of the stuff 0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:10.319 linking the peppe Keck thing to the Yeah, the entire 0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:12.840 way that Fortune was using this like specifically influenced by 0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:15.080 the operation mind folk stuff specifically influenced by like the 0:35:15.160 --> 0:35:19.239 chaos magic stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's fucked up and 0:35:19.239 --> 0:35:22.360 you're you're not gonna Obviously, the odds that Donald Trump 0:35:22.440 --> 0:35:25.440 himself knows any of this are basically zero, but the 0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:27.319 odds that there are people in his orbit who were 0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:29.200 aware of a lot of this history are quite a 0:35:29.200 --> 0:35:32.520 bit higher. And you're not going to find smoking guns here. Um. 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:35.120 But there there are some things that I've read over 0:35:35.160 --> 0:35:37.880 the years that set like send me back to that 0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:41.200 chap will paralless space. Um. I'm going to quote from 0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:43.000 an article in the Guardian, and this is from way 0:35:43.000 --> 0:35:45.560 back when the Cambridge Analytic a scandal broke, like if 0:35:45.560 --> 0:35:47.480 you can remember then, So this is this is an 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:52.000 article about the Cambridge Analytica scandal. As Wiley describes it, 0:35:52.040 --> 0:35:54.400 he was the gay Canadian vegan who somehow ended up 0:35:54.440 --> 0:35:58.960 creating quote Steve Bannon's psychological warfare mind fuck tool in 0:35:59.000 --> 0:36:02.439 twenty fourteen. Steve Bannon, then executive chairman of the alt 0:36:02.520 --> 0:36:05.560 right news network Bright Bart, was Whiley's boss, and Robert Mercer, 0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:08.160 the secret US hedge fund billionaire and Republican donor, was 0:36:08.200 --> 0:36:11.080 Cambridge Analytic as investor. And the idea they brought into 0:36:11.080 --> 0:36:13.480 being was to bring big data and social media to 0:36:13.520 --> 0:36:17.600 an established military methodology information operations, then turn it on 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:22.479 the US electorate. Now, is WHILEY using the term mind 0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:25.080 fuck just because that's the term that is most appropriate. 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:27.160 Is he using it because as the kind of guy 0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:29.520 who'd get this job, he's familiar with this history. Or 0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:30.920 is he using it because it's a term that he 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:33.479 heard around the office, And then why were the people 0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:35.360 using it? Like? Right? You can you can drive yourself 0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:39.080 into some interesting areas if you read too much into 0:36:39.440 --> 0:36:44.200 a fucking quote from a Guardian article where a guy 0:36:44.200 --> 0:36:46.319 happens to use the word mind fuck while talking about 0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:50.200 a psychological warfare tool. But I do that sometimes when 0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:52.239 I'm reading about the Illuminati at four in the morning. 0:36:52.239 --> 0:36:54.960 I mean, because you're in the chapel perilyss right now, 0:36:55.600 --> 0:37:00.200 almost permanently. Yeah. So, research in twenty sixteen by You're 0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:03.920 in Swammy, a psychology professor, suggests that conspiracy theory believers 0:37:03.920 --> 0:37:06.680 are more likely to be suffering from stressful life situations 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:09.600 than nonbelievers. And what I find interesting about this is 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:12.279 that the toolbox built by the Discordians, merged with the 0:37:12.360 --> 0:37:15.360 reach of social media, gives bad actors a way to 0:37:15.520 --> 0:37:19.200 create stressful life situations for millions of people, which draw 0:37:19.239 --> 0:37:22.280 them deeper into conspiracism while alienating them from their families 0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:24.919 and thus making them more vulnerable. Right, this is a good, 0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:26.680 big thing on qan on. A lot of people that 0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:29.520 fall into this are not are not actually like like 0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:31.440 they're actually doing fine. Like a lot of them are 0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:36.760 like suburban Republican moms who like are living life pretty good, 0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:40.839 but the invention of this conspiracy theory throws their life 0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:44.760 into shambles because they now like it creates these stressful 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:48.240 conditions that otherwise kind of well off and privileged people 0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:53.080 are already existing in. Yeah, and it's it's that that 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:55.279 is like part of you know, to the extent that 0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:59.920 you want to throw put blame on the original Discordians. 0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:04.800 Some of what makes this tool set so dangerous didn't 0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:08.239 exist when they invented it, right, Like, all of the 0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:10.880 stuff that has been done using kind of the basis 0:38:10.880 --> 0:38:15.760 they established wasn't possible back in the nineteen sixties. But yeah, 0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:18.399 it is worth noting though that, Like I just said that, 0:38:18.480 --> 0:38:21.960 But as Garrison brought up earlier, among the first Discordians, 0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:24.520 there was a pretty widespread understanding that they were at 0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:27.520 least potentially fiddling with something dangerous. And I'm going to 0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:30.680 quote from j. Mr Higgs here. Greg Hill was an 0:38:30.680 --> 0:38:33.840 atheist who intended Discordianism to be a satire of religion. 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:36.560 He certainly did not start out taking the idea of 0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:39.759 goddesses or spirit seriously. By the late seventies, however, he 0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:42.520 was convinced that his Discordian adventures had stirred up something 0:38:42.520 --> 0:38:44.759 that he was unable to explain. As he told his 0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:47.120 friend Margot Adler, if you do this type of thing 0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:49.640 well enough, it starts to work. I started out with 0:38:49.680 --> 0:38:51.880 the idea that all gods are an illusion. By an 0:38:51.960 --> 0:38:53.279 end I had learned that it is up to you 0:38:53.320 --> 0:38:55.600 to decide whether gods exist. And if you take the 0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:58.480 Goddess of Confusion seriously enough, it will send you through 0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:01.000 his profound and valid and metaphor physical trip as taking 0:39:01.000 --> 0:39:06.480 a god like yahweh seriously yep, yeah, I mean this 0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:09.200 is this is this is funny, just uh right. Right 0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:12.080 right before he started recording, this video came out of 0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:15.680 Charlie Kirk talking about how he got sick because some 0:39:16.200 --> 0:39:20.000 witches like like cursed him, and like, the first step 0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:22.440 for magic to be effective is that you have to 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:25.120 believe in the magic. So the fact that Charlie Kirk 0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:27.840 believes that witches can make him sick means that he 0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:30.360 has now opened up the possibility in his brain to 0:39:30.520 --> 0:39:33.319 get sick because of magic. So now people can do 0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:35.520 that and he's and he will get sick because this 0:39:35.600 --> 0:39:37.920 is how your brain works. Like this is like actual 0:39:38.080 --> 0:39:40.759 like science stuff with the placebo effect, with the no 0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:44.200 sebo effect. That the fact that he's decided that witches 0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:47.319 can can cause him physical damage means that whitches can 0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:50.680 now cause him physical damage. And because we have so 0:39:50.719 --> 0:39:54.160 many listeners to this podcast, and and I think there 0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:57.399 is a great stored potential in their mental energy. If 0:39:57.400 --> 0:39:59.160 you have some time today when you listen to this, 0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:03.799 everyone just think about giving Charlie Kirk Chlamydia. Let's all 0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:07.080 just let's all just work on that together psychically, just 0:40:07.160 --> 0:40:09.319 a little bit of a clap for old Charlie Kirk. 0:40:09.400 --> 0:40:11.200 I think we can do it. All you have to 0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:16.200 do is visualize his face getting smaller and smaller until 0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:26.600 until he develops a series of horrible rashes. So throughout 0:40:26.680 --> 0:40:30.239 the nineteen nineties, in particular, the tactics of the Discordians 0:40:30.320 --> 0:40:33.279 merged with things like the Situationists and groups like Up 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:36.440 against the Wall Motherfuckers, which had all kind of existed 0:40:36.480 --> 0:40:39.239 in the same period that the Discordians got started. One 0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:41.680 of the things that gives the Discordians longevity is that 0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:45.600 there are kind of follow up cults to the original cult, 0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:48.040 the Church of the SubGenius being the most well known 0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:51.719 that is basically rebranded Discordian. Bob Wilson is a part 0:40:51.760 --> 0:40:54.640 of it, and this kind of keeps a lot of 0:40:54.680 --> 0:40:56.760 like the stuff that they had been putting out relevant, 0:40:57.680 --> 0:41:00.239 and as a result, they have a big influence in 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:04.080 the spread of a widespread left wing cultural practice called 0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:07.840 culture jamming by anti consumerst activists in the nineteen nineties, 0:41:08.160 --> 0:41:11.560 well and speaking of anti consumerism and and and church 0:41:11.560 --> 0:41:13.600 at the SubGenius. One thing they put out was a 0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:19.319 lot of fake advertising, just like and just like, just 0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:21.759 like the fake ads. You're about to hear. Nothing you're 0:41:21.760 --> 0:41:24.160 about to hear is a real product. These are fake. 0:41:24.600 --> 0:41:27.680 The show is entirely supported by the CIA, working with 0:41:27.680 --> 0:41:30.719 the John Birch Society. Yea, all fake products, but you 0:41:30.840 --> 0:41:32.759 still have to listen. You still have to listen to 0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:35.160 them or also it won't work, so yeah, yeah, it'll 0:41:35.200 --> 0:41:44.160 break the illusion. All right, we're back. My favorite of 0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:47.040 those ads was the one where JFK was talking about 0:41:47.040 --> 0:41:49.839 his new podcast where he talks to celebrities. The Deep 0:41:49.880 --> 0:41:52.520 Fake JFK podcast is actually pretty good. It is. It 0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:55.440 is shocking how clear they make his voice, and it 0:41:55.880 --> 0:41:58.520 flows very consistently. A lot of AI voices are kind 0:41:58.520 --> 0:42:01.520 of junkie, but the deep Fake jaky voice is actually 0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:04.759 one of the better ones that I've heard. We should 0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:09.040 interview it about Kerry Thornley add a little bit in there. 0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:13.759 Cyber is way more confusing than I was led to 0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:16.720 believe by playing shadow when I was a kid. Well, 0:42:16.760 --> 0:42:19.000 it's part of this is actually part of why it's confusing. 0:42:19.200 --> 0:42:21.839 So the basic idea of culture jamming is that you 0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:25.040 repurpose and co opt symbols and figures of established power, 0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:28.000 turn them into memes, and use that to subvert capitalism. 0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:30.759 A good example of this would be the Billboard Liberation Front, 0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:34.120 who started hacking billboards in their terms in the nineteen seventies. 0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:36.279 One of my favorite pieces of their work is an 0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:39.000 AT and T billboard, which originally said AT and T 0:42:39.160 --> 0:42:43.239 works in more places, and the BLF added like NSA headquarters. 0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:47.560 The Billboard Liberation Front and other culture jammers influenced and 0:42:47.600 --> 0:42:50.759 inspired a lot of modern activists and artists, but you 0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:52.560 might note they seem to have made a lot less 0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:55.440 progress in their culture jamming than late adopters on the 0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:59.160 right wing. Since twenty fourteen, when Gamergate roared to life 0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:01.880 in a hail of me and repurposed bits of mass media, 0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:04.800 different once fringed chunks of the radical right have forced 0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:07.279 their way into the mainstream, often co opting not just 0:43:07.320 --> 0:43:10.600 the imagery of other artists like Pepe, but co opting 0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:13.680 actual people to spread their message. In fact, we have 0:43:13.719 --> 0:43:17.160 evidence that Adbusters, perhaps the premier clearing house of leftist 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:19.759 culture jamming up to the present day was used by 0:43:19.760 --> 0:43:22.280 the alt right as a textbook in their twenty fifteen 0:43:22.320 --> 0:43:25.799 two thousand and sixteen meme operations. Aaron Gallagher was one 0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:28.120 of the very first researchers on this beat. In a 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:31.160 medium right up titled alt Right Culture Jamming, she cites 0:43:31.200 --> 0:43:35.800 a September twenty fifteen Pole post read adbusters don't follow 0:43:35.800 --> 0:43:41.279 the left hard propaganda, but look at the examples. Yeah. Man, 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:45.040 that's so frustrating. Ah, it's deeply frustrating. I feel like 0:43:45.120 --> 0:43:51.799 the loss. I don't know, Margaret. I think the only 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:54.439 way it is through. We have to have to keep going, 0:43:54.960 --> 0:43:59.120 just keep posting harder. We're going to do it eventually. Sure. Yeah, 0:43:59.160 --> 0:44:03.239 it's one of two things. It's either earnestness or it's 0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:06.239 getting things weird enough and fucking with people's heads enough 0:44:06.280 --> 0:44:09.319 that we make everybody a furry. And then people are 0:44:09.320 --> 0:44:12.440 too busy trying to make you know, various genital sheaths 0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:15.080 for their furs suits to have a second civil war. 0:44:15.200 --> 0:44:18.640 But see, they will be earnestly looking for genital sheaths 0:44:18.640 --> 0:44:20.759 for their first suits. That is the strength of the 0:44:20.760 --> 0:44:23.960 furry movement. It is an earnest thing that everyone else 0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:27.120 views ironically. But this is this is something actually I've 0:44:27.120 --> 0:44:29.080 been thinking about a lot that the past week, and 0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:32.040 how these these tactics they do seem to be successful 0:44:32.120 --> 0:44:34.640 in the ways that the right uses them. The left 0:44:34.680 --> 0:44:37.080 and anarchists have seen success in these same tactics. But 0:44:37.640 --> 0:44:40.440 this this type of like in the last previously in 0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:43.399 our series, we talked about like a deternament versus recuperation, 0:44:43.719 --> 0:44:46.520 and how these these two things they're kind of they're 0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:48.640 kind of two sides of the same coin. Actually, like 0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:51.680 they're kind of they operate, they operate the same and 0:44:52.920 --> 0:44:55.520 they both and same thing with like culture jamming. They 0:44:55.560 --> 0:44:58.440 all do contribute to this like fracturing and this opening 0:44:58.480 --> 0:45:01.279 up of reality. But and what that does is that 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:05.160 it creates these brief windows of opportunity where like reality 0:45:05.200 --> 0:45:08.560 is extremely malleable and it can be shaped by collective 0:45:08.560 --> 0:45:12.440 groups of people. But yeah, so as these things are 0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:16.160 useful tactics for for creating these these areas of possibility 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:19.600 and these and these and these small windows um and 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:22.360 one of the kind of risks of using these tactics, 0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:24.520 and we kind of saw this with Occupied, We saw 0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:26.720 this with a few other kind of very very culture 0:45:26.800 --> 0:45:30.439 jamming based movements. Is that once this reality has been 0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:34.120 fractured in a specific way, if if if we don't 0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:37.080 win this battle, it can never be attacked in the 0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:39.000 same way. Again. It's like as if you're if you're 0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:41.160 going to use these culture jamming tactics as as a 0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:43.480 part of a diversity of tactics to kind of effect reality, 0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:47.560 to to open up these fractures once once they have 0:45:47.640 --> 0:45:50.919 been once they've been attacked, and if we lose this 0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:53.360 method of attack and this and the location of attack 0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:55.759 is going to be so much stronger than it was 0:45:56.560 --> 0:46:00.520 like pre the pre the fracture And it's when you're 0:46:00.520 --> 0:46:03.440 fighting the borg exactly. It's it's it's one of these 0:46:03.440 --> 0:46:05.239 things where you have to be very careful when using 0:46:05.280 --> 0:46:09.560 these tactics because you could inadvertently, you know, make make 0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:12.560 the attack surface actually you know, much harder in the 0:46:12.560 --> 0:46:16.319 future if you don't actually you know, succeed at your goal. Well, 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:19.040 it's it's the idea that like you have to think 0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:21.400 about some of this stuff like operation mind fuck the 0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:24.320 way that like a hacker would think of a zero 0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:26.920 day exploit. A zero day exploit is like basically a 0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:29.680 fuck up and code that can allow you like a 0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:32.719 method to get in and you know, access a thing 0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:35.560 that you're not supposed to access. But the instant you 0:46:35.680 --> 0:46:38.880 use it, the people who are responsible for defending whatever 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:41.080 it is you're hacking will know what you've done and 0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:44.200 fix it. So you can use a zero day once. Right, 0:46:44.520 --> 0:46:46.399 you have to be careful about when you deploy something 0:46:46.440 --> 0:46:48.719 like that. And also, yeah, like like you have this 0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:51.800 thing where it's like, okay, if where we perceive reality 0:46:51.960 --> 0:46:54.239 is going from a garrison, was saying earlier, if where 0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:56.760 we perceive reality is like kind of a a fixed point, 0:46:57.200 --> 0:46:59.120 and you want to move that, but it's a pin 0:46:59.320 --> 0:47:01.840 stuck in the political map. The pin is stuck in 0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:04.560 the political map, and everyone who wants to change it 0:47:04.840 --> 0:47:06.719 wants to pull the pin out of the map so 0:47:06.760 --> 0:47:09.959 it can be moved. And the pin is now out 0:47:09.960 --> 0:47:13.040 of the map. But the problem is that everyone now 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:15.160 can fight over the pin and move it, and so 0:47:15.239 --> 0:47:17.319 really you always want to pull the pin out of 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:19.839 the map when you're positioned to be the one who 0:47:19.880 --> 0:47:23.560 can move it instead of the other team. Yes, be 0:47:23.600 --> 0:47:27.480 fast on that shit. And it's one of those things 0:47:27.520 --> 0:47:31.640 obviously in terms of like determining bastardry. There's bastardry and 0:47:31.719 --> 0:47:34.600 Carrie's personal life. When it comes to what the Discordians 0:47:34.600 --> 0:47:36.560 were doing. I think it'd be a trap to fall 0:47:36.560 --> 0:47:39.279 into too much recrimination here. Now we know Carry in 0:47:39.360 --> 0:47:43.000 particular was a reckless guy. This was not not a 0:47:43.080 --> 0:47:47.359 reckless thing to do Operation mind fuck. That said, it's 0:47:47.400 --> 0:47:49.719 hard for me to blame an acid drenched young man 0:47:49.719 --> 0:47:52.239 and his friends for thinking that their extended joke about 0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:54.920 the John Birch Society would unleash a torrent of chaos 0:47:55.040 --> 0:47:57.759 upon the world, although I have to say Harris at 0:47:57.840 --> 0:48:03.000 least is surely pleased. Yeah, I mean, yeah, absolutely, they 0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:05.160 did exactly what they said that they were going to 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:07.760 try and do, and it worked. Yes, they got shocked 0:48:07.840 --> 0:48:12.040 that it worked. Yea. It is interesting to note that, 0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:15.120 whatever you want to say about their aims, the impact 0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:17.799 of the Discordian Society on global politics and the course 0:48:17.840 --> 0:48:21.880 of mankind far outweighs any other real secret society that 0:48:21.960 --> 0:48:25.000 I can name. Like, objectively, they had more of an 0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:30.680 impact on politics than the real Illuminati. They also succeeded 0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:34.080 in forcing their names into the story of the Illuminati forever, 0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:36.040 and as evidence of this, I want to read a 0:48:36.120 --> 0:48:39.359 quote to you from a wild Ass Illuminati conspiracy book 0:48:39.440 --> 0:48:42.200 by Jim Mars. It is critical at this point to 0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:47.280 understand that Illuminism is an ism, not unlike national socialism nazis. 0:48:47.080 --> 0:48:52.560 That's in parentheses communism, capitalism, and socialism. It is a 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:55.320 belief system that is not relegated to any one individual 0:48:55.440 --> 0:48:58.279 or group in any given period of time. The beneficial 0:48:58.360 --> 0:49:01.040 goals of the Illuminati, such as free from church dogma 0:49:01.120 --> 0:49:04.360 and government tyranny, lived on to modern times in France, America, 0:49:04.400 --> 0:49:07.319 and Russia. But the more sinister aspects of the order, 0:49:07.600 --> 0:49:11.080 such as inherent secrecy, duplicity, violence, and the drive for 0:49:11.200 --> 0:49:15.360 absolute power lived on too when unscrupulous men. Robert Anton 0:49:15.400 --> 0:49:19.160 Wilson opined, the one safe generalization one can make is 0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:22.919 that Wishop's intent to maintain secrecy has worked. No two 0:49:23.000 --> 0:49:26.319 students of illuminology have ever agreed totally about what the 0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:29.719 inner secret or purpose of the order actually was or is. 0:49:30.160 --> 0:49:33.279 As Wilson wants fancifully told a radio audience, maybe the 0:49:33.320 --> 0:49:35.640 secret of the Illuminati is that you don't know you're 0:49:35.680 --> 0:49:45.840 remember until it's too late to get out out. That 0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:48.760 that is such an interesting way to frame that though, Yeah, 0:49:49.719 --> 0:49:51.960 is that Robert coming out as in the Illuminati to 0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:54.799 us or is that Robert telling us that we're in 0:49:54.840 --> 0:50:02.160 it now? Hmm? Interesting? Interesting, Wow, it's a decision for 0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:04.920 everyone at home to make. That kind of just is 0:50:04.920 --> 0:50:07.359 like hindsight is twenty twenty though, Like, you don't know 0:50:07.440 --> 0:50:10.800 how much you're gonna affect history or like reality until 0:50:10.800 --> 0:50:13.759 it's already happened. And even still, I don't think Robert 0:50:13.800 --> 0:50:16.520 Aunton Wilson and the Discordian guys knew how much this 0:50:16.560 --> 0:50:19.239 stuff would be impacted because they all died in they 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:21.320 all died in the early two thousands, and this stuffs 0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:24.240 like kind of reached reached the peak of its power 0:50:24.520 --> 0:50:28.960 from twenty sixteen to like the present. Um, And yeah, 0:50:29.000 --> 0:50:33.399 that is that is a very a very concise way 0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:37.799 to to to frame membership of the Illuminati. I would yeah, 0:50:37.840 --> 0:50:41.479 I would love to die before I find out that 0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:50.839 my life's work fuels all of my ideological enemies. Yeah, 0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:53.920 that part's a bummer. I don't know. I think about 0:50:53.920 --> 0:50:57.719 it a couple of ways. Um. One of them is that, like, 0:50:59.000 --> 0:51:02.280 as I think about Robert Danton Wilson's ideas of reality 0:51:02.280 --> 0:51:05.520 tunnels and pan agnosticism. I kind of think that one 0:51:05.520 --> 0:51:09.040 of the healthier terms that social media has given us 0:51:09.160 --> 0:51:12.520 is the idea of headcanon, right, which initially came out 0:51:12.520 --> 0:51:14.239 of like the fan fiction universe as a way of 0:51:14.280 --> 0:51:16.320 talking about like, well, I'm deciding this is true about 0:51:16.320 --> 0:51:19.640 star Wars or whatever. But it's a term that gets 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:22.040 used more broadly by people on the Internet, and I 0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:25.239 think maybe even if you're talking about loopy stuff when 0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:28.719 you use it, the idea that this is canon that 0:51:28.840 --> 0:51:31.960 is inside my head as opposed to this is my 0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:36.040 view of reality is maybe in a subconscious way, an 0:51:36.120 --> 0:51:39.600 inherently healthier way to talk about shit. No, that's so true. 0:51:39.680 --> 0:51:45.759 I like that idea. Yeah, anyway, that's a more or 0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:49.560 less complete history of the Illuminati. Did I love that. 0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:53.200 The actual history of the Illuminati is like, there's this 0:51:53.280 --> 0:51:56.960 guy he wanted to be a nerd and that fucking 0:51:57.080 --> 0:52:00.000 Christians wouldn't let him, so he did some weird Christians 0:52:00.000 --> 0:52:03.600 and looking science shit, and that lasted for a little while, 0:52:04.160 --> 0:52:06.640 and then God struck one of them down, and now 0:52:06.680 --> 0:52:10.640 there's fucking pyramids on the dollar bill and reality TV 0:52:10.719 --> 0:52:15.520 Stars of the President. Yeah, it is kind of the 0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:19.320 story of like two different groups of well meaning nerds 0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:23.200 who like fucked around in order to try to make 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:26.040 the world a better place, but the only language they 0:52:26.040 --> 0:52:29.480 had was lies, and so a number of problems were 0:52:29.520 --> 0:52:34.600 created as a result. Yeah, and that's why, I mean, 0:52:34.760 --> 0:52:37.960 that's actually why I believe. I think that like jokes 0:52:38.000 --> 0:52:41.040 and lies and there's like some interesting and good shit 0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:43.680 that can be done through all this. But I think 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:46.319 that's why just like people being earnestly about what they're 0:52:46.320 --> 0:52:50.239 about feels like, yeah, much like headcannon as like a 0:52:50.280 --> 0:52:55.200 way to inure ourselves from this kind of nonsense. And 0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:57.640 I actually think we've been talking a lot about this, 0:52:57.760 --> 0:53:01.279 about how the different culture weapons that the left and 0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:03.719 the right use to kind of get around each other, 0:53:04.600 --> 0:53:07.680 that these are not static battle lines, and that tactics 0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:12.200 are adopted and altered and change over time. One of 0:53:12.239 --> 0:53:16.120 the things that made Trump potent, and that made you know, 0:53:16.160 --> 0:53:19.600 the alt right and the initial Trump movement potent, was 0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:22.759 in fact a kind of honesty, or at least authenticity, 0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:24.200 And I talk about that. I've talked about this a 0:53:24.239 --> 0:53:26.080 few times over my career. I had a series of 0:53:26.080 --> 0:53:29.480 interviews with a guy, Rick Wilson, who was an objectively 0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:32.960 unpleasant man in a lot of ways. He was one 0:53:33.000 --> 0:53:37.719 of the chief Republican like dirty tricks media guys. He 0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:39.840 did a lot of really ugly attack ads in the 0:53:39.840 --> 0:53:43.120 Obama era and then became an anti Trumper. But like 0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:44.879 one of the things he will he would point out 0:53:44.920 --> 0:53:46.680 when he was and this wasn't I was talking to 0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:49.520 him as the election was going on and we were 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:53.239 kind of analyzing the Clinton campaign's ads as he was like, 0:53:53.320 --> 0:53:55.680 these all feel like something somebody cooked up in a 0:53:55.760 --> 0:54:00.360 Madison Avenue ad agency, because they are and Trump bads 0:54:00.400 --> 0:54:02.680 feel like something some guy made on his computer at 0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:05.320 three in the morning after like slamming a bunch of monsters. 0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:09.760 And that's what worked about Trump. There's something authentic about 0:54:09.800 --> 0:54:14.040 that that like enraptured people because it felt more honest 0:54:14.160 --> 0:54:17.520 than the politicians we were used to. Um. It doesn't 0:54:17.520 --> 0:54:19.440 mean he was a fundamentally honest man, but there was 0:54:19.480 --> 0:54:23.759 a central honesty in his approach and like his willingness, 0:54:23.800 --> 0:54:26.200 his unwillingness to even like pretend that he felt bad 0:54:26.239 --> 0:54:29.400 for doing bad things. That was that was that was 0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:32.760 like this authenticity that was an effective weapon in their quarrel. 0:54:33.120 --> 0:54:36.440 And I think over the years they've gotten so up 0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:38.440 their own there's an extent to which I think they've 0:54:38.480 --> 0:54:42.920 gotten up their own asses about the you know, saying 0:54:42.960 --> 0:54:46.000 the quiet part, you know, and and uh and and 0:54:46.160 --> 0:54:49.600 kind of like wrapping their actual intents and layers of 0:54:49.640 --> 0:54:53.799 subversion and all of this fakery. And I think there's 0:54:53.800 --> 0:54:57.320 a degree to which that may have thrown people off 0:54:57.560 --> 0:55:00.360 who would have otherwise been appealed to them. And I 0:55:00.400 --> 0:55:02.680 think there's also kind of the period we're seeing right 0:55:02.719 --> 0:55:05.359 now from the right is where they're they're discarding these 0:55:05.400 --> 0:55:08.960 tactics and they're trying authenticity again in terms of like 0:55:09.080 --> 0:55:11.560 we're just going to straight up talk about wanting to 0:55:11.560 --> 0:55:14.840 erase transgender people from existence, we want to ban books, 0:55:14.880 --> 0:55:17.759 we want to make it illegal to learn, you know, 0:55:17.840 --> 0:55:20.680 take ap African American history, all this kind of shit, 0:55:20.840 --> 0:55:24.120 Like the mask is kind of off, and I think 0:55:24.200 --> 0:55:28.240 maybe they may be miscalculating, and we have some early 0:55:28.320 --> 0:55:30.920 signs that that may be the case, the degree to 0:55:30.960 --> 0:55:35.319 which that kind of authenticity is a selling point. And 0:55:35.400 --> 0:55:38.120 so yeah, Margaret, I think there's a good chance that 0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:41.000 you're right in terms of like what our response needs 0:55:41.000 --> 0:55:44.799 to actually be because they're showing their faces now and 0:55:45.760 --> 0:55:47.960 it's a pretty ugly one. So maybe this is the 0:55:48.000 --> 0:55:52.080 time to show ours rather than you know, trying to 0:55:53.480 --> 0:55:57.880 make our little illuminati and hide our enlightenment values from 0:55:57.880 --> 0:56:00.560 the people who can't possibly understand it well enough yet. 0:56:00.880 --> 0:56:04.400 I don't know. Yeah, And I think part of that 0:56:04.440 --> 0:56:09.120 has to do with like, um, you know, like many 0:56:09.160 --> 0:56:11.320 people listeners probably identifies liberals, but there's a sort of 0:56:11.400 --> 0:56:14.240 joke that everyone hates liberals basically from all other every 0:56:14.239 --> 0:56:18.400 other position and also possibly including the liberal position often. Yeah, 0:56:18.440 --> 0:56:19.840 And I think that a lot of it has to 0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:22.840 do with this, like having people be sort of wishy washy, 0:56:22.920 --> 0:56:25.960 or having people yeah, not quite say what they're about, 0:56:26.080 --> 0:56:30.000 you know, And I don't know, just being like yeah, 0:56:30.080 --> 0:56:35.239 I often see that you actually get more people not 0:56:35.320 --> 0:56:37.759 necessarily agreeing with you, but able to make their own 0:56:37.760 --> 0:56:40.000 decisions about where they agree with you and where they 0:56:40.000 --> 0:56:42.560 don't when you're just like, well, this is what I'm about. 0:56:43.560 --> 0:56:48.000 What are you about? You know, instead of being like, oh, yeah, totally, 0:56:48.040 --> 0:56:52.320 this is how I don't know? This like false. The 0:56:52.440 --> 0:56:55.600 problem the media has too, because, by at least according 0:56:55.600 --> 0:56:58.839 to Gallop, public trust in the media, about twenty three 0:56:58.840 --> 0:57:05.239 percent of the American copulation thinks that journalists are basically honestum, like, 0:57:05.680 --> 0:57:08.800 so people do not believe that the media is telling 0:57:08.800 --> 0:57:11.640 them the truth. Like this New York Times idea of 0:57:11.680 --> 0:57:15.759 like the importance of you know, honest, unbiased journalism. That 0:57:15.920 --> 0:57:17.600 is not a thing. And it's not a thing because 0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:20.560 no one believes you're unbiased. So the honest thing to 0:57:20.600 --> 0:57:22.720 do is not to be like, well, we can't have 0:57:22.760 --> 0:57:25.120 trains people reporting on trend or black people reporting on 0:57:25.160 --> 0:57:27.560 you know, issues that affect the black community because they're biased. 0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:30.800 Like no, just like have people report on shit and 0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:32.920 be honest about what they believe. If you're a fucking 0:57:32.960 --> 0:57:36.840 Marxist or a fucking conservative walking into you know, a 0:57:36.840 --> 0:57:40.439 protest or a movement or whatever, X tell people what 0:57:40.480 --> 0:57:43.360 you think about the world when you go to report 0:57:43.400 --> 0:57:45.440 on that thing. Obviously, Like if you're reporting on like 0:57:45.480 --> 0:57:48.760 a tornado, your ideology is not important. But I would 0:57:48.840 --> 0:57:52.240 much rather know, yeah, exactly, Yeah, that we don't need 0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:54.000 we don't need to We don't need to know that, 0:57:54.040 --> 0:57:57.040 you like, have a Marxist to take on the economy 0:57:57.160 --> 0:58:00.440 or whatever if your job is to report on a hurricane. 0:58:00.880 --> 0:58:03.120 Although maybe that'll influence the way you talk about like 0:58:03.200 --> 0:58:06.800 the but whatever how people handle it, let let I 0:58:06.840 --> 0:58:09.480 mean don't like it. It's this, it's the fact, Like 0:58:09.520 --> 0:58:11.920 the reason people don't trust the media. A big part 0:58:11.960 --> 0:58:15.880 of it is that you can't be an unbiased journalist. 0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:19.160 It's simply not a thing that exists in the same 0:58:19.200 --> 0:58:22.120 way that like, the very way you see the world 0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:24.800 and the way that it feels to you, even down 0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:28.480 to the way things taste, is impacted by your expectations. 0:58:28.760 --> 0:58:34.040 This is a biological reality that is undeniable. Your expectations, 0:58:34.160 --> 0:58:39.480 your personal biases. Everything including like how much sleep you've 0:58:39.480 --> 0:58:41.960 got the night before, changes the way you interact with 0:58:42.000 --> 0:58:44.640 physical reality, as is the things you believe. So it's 0:58:44.640 --> 0:58:48.280 actually fundamentally dishonest to pretend that you're coming at anything 0:58:48.320 --> 0:58:51.280 from some sort of point of objectivity. And everyone knows 0:58:51.320 --> 0:58:55.040 that at some level, which is why nobody trusts journalists. Right, 0:58:55.440 --> 0:58:59.680 That's my take, and we should work to like part 0:58:59.720 --> 0:59:01.880 of me open about her a biases is to also 0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:04.640 kind of like no, okay, Like my weak spot is 0:59:04.640 --> 0:59:07.440 that I want to believe that someone who calls themselves 0:59:07.440 --> 0:59:09.800 this or that label is fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, 0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:12.960 and so I should be aware of my own biases, 0:59:13.000 --> 0:59:16.480 even for myself, so I can move towards objectivity. I 0:59:16.520 --> 0:59:18.640 mean I have when I went into this. This is 0:59:18.640 --> 0:59:20.560 the second version of this that I've done. The first 0:59:20.560 --> 0:59:22.200 one was a much shorter version that we did as 0:59:22.240 --> 0:59:26.080 part of a live show, and it was much less 0:59:26.120 --> 0:59:29.760 complicated and towards the Discordians and delved into a lot 0:59:29.840 --> 0:59:32.360 less of this. And you know that's part of It's 0:59:32.400 --> 0:59:35.600 because these guys were my heroes when I was a 0:59:35.680 --> 0:59:38.760 very young man. Yeah, and I didn't want in a 0:59:38.760 --> 0:59:41.040 lot of ways to learn things like the fact that 0:59:41.120 --> 0:59:44.640 Carrie Thornley attempted to molest a young girl like that 0:59:44.800 --> 0:59:49.080 is an unpleasant thing to realize and have to adapt 0:59:49.160 --> 0:59:54.080 into because that, you know, that actually does mean something 0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:57.360 about the things that he believed. And one of the 0:59:57.400 --> 0:59:59.680 things that it means is that you should always be 0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:02.440 carefu all about how much you believe anything, right, because 1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:06.040 belief can lead you to some very frightening areas, even 1:00:06.080 --> 1:00:08.920 if even if that is a belief in the value 1:00:08.960 --> 1:00:12.760 of love and and you know, physical autonomy and stuff, right, 1:00:13.040 --> 1:00:15.960 Because that's how Carrie would describe the underpinning of the 1:00:16.000 --> 1:00:20.680 horrible thing that he did. Um and uh, yeah, I 1:00:20.720 --> 1:00:24.560 don't know. I think we've probably talked enough about this 1:00:24.680 --> 1:00:27.360 kind of stuff. Sure have or you guys want to 1:00:27.960 --> 1:00:33.400 plug anything stop doing the or have no no no. Yeah. Sophie. 1:00:33.480 --> 1:00:36.760 By the way, when you sent me that text last night, 1:00:37.240 --> 1:00:40.240 you know, saying saying that your your uber wouldn't pick 1:00:40.280 --> 1:00:42.480 you up outside of the senator's house and that you 1:00:42.560 --> 1:00:46.000 had a hot firearm, you had to discard. Um did 1:00:46.040 --> 1:00:49.680 you ever wind up getting that uber? Well, here's how 1:00:49.840 --> 1:00:53.000 we know your conspiracy is wrong. Would not take it uber? 1:00:53.040 --> 1:00:57.200 I would call your ass Yeah, you're going to say, 1:00:57.240 --> 1:01:00.520 would lift? This has all been an extent. Did add 1:01:00.520 --> 1:01:02.840 for lift? Lift? If you're going to carry out a 1:01:02.840 --> 1:01:07.120 political assassination, it had better be in a lift. Lift. 1:01:07.360 --> 1:01:11.680 We do not ask questions. Seriously, need to start offering 1:01:11.720 --> 1:01:14.760 that as something that we do here a lift. We 1:01:14.800 --> 1:01:17.160 make sure every one of our drivers has a hidden 1:01:17.240 --> 1:01:19.400 area in the car that you can police a hot 1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:28.640 firearm lift. We go the extra mile shop lift anyways, Garrison, 1:01:28.920 --> 1:01:35.480 Margaret Pluggables. If you want to look at my slightly 1:01:35.560 --> 1:01:39.600 unhinged ramblings about chaos magic, you can follow my Twitter 1:01:39.640 --> 1:01:44.920 account at Hungry bow Tie, as as as this is airing. 1:01:44.960 --> 1:01:47.280 I will probably probably be in Atlanta for the Week 1:01:47.320 --> 1:01:50.600 of Action, which is going on to defend the Force there. 1:01:51.440 --> 1:01:53.720 So if you want to support people in Atlanta, you 1:01:53.760 --> 1:01:59.000 can donate to the Atlanta Solidarity Fund. I would say 1:01:59.640 --> 1:02:02.560 I have two book novella series that came out a 1:02:02.560 --> 1:02:04.880 little while ago that called the Danielle Kane Series. The 1:02:04.880 --> 1:02:07.400 first ones The Lamb Will Slaughter the Lion. The second 1:02:07.440 --> 1:02:09.280 one is The Barrel Will Send What It May. They're 1:02:09.280 --> 1:02:13.080 both really short and they deal with more ggicals stuff 1:02:13.120 --> 1:02:16.120 and more stuff about how we shape reality than some 1:02:16.160 --> 1:02:19.240 of my other writings. So maybe you'll like them if 1:02:19.280 --> 1:02:21.520 you like this episode, and you can get them wherever 1:02:21.560 --> 1:02:26.080 books are sold. Yeah, read those books, because I have 1:02:26.200 --> 1:02:30.920 been using a series of fake, cutout social media accounts 1:02:31.040 --> 1:02:34.640 in order to harass and threaten Margaret into writing a 1:02:34.680 --> 1:02:39.160 third one. But it's not working, so help me out 1:02:39.160 --> 1:02:45.040 people anyway. This has been Behind the Bastards, a podcast 1:02:45.640 --> 1:02:50.800 about the Illuminati that also is the Illuminati. So whatever 1:02:50.960 --> 1:02:53.800 conspiracy you belief about me and my friends here on 1:02:53.840 --> 1:02:57.520 the show, it's probably real in some way. Happy twenty 1:02:57.640 --> 1:03:03.120 twenty three. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool 1:03:03.200 --> 1:03:06.080 Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media, visit our 1:03:06.120 --> 1:03:09.640 website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on 1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:13.280 the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.