Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema.
Speaker 3: This is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick, and
Speaker 3: we've got something a little bit different for you today.
Speaker 3: Today on Weird House Cinema, we're going to be talking
Speaker 3: about The Viewing, directed by Panos Cosmodos, which is not
Speaker 3: a feature film, but an anthology episode in the twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two Netflix series Guermo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities. Rob,
Speaker 3: this was your pick. How did you end up bringing
Speaker 3: us into this zone?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I certainly, of modern directors, Panos is
Speaker 2: one of my favorite weird directors and certainly someone who's
Speaker 2: always been in the back of my mind with Weird
Speaker 2: House Cinema. I think one of the reasons I dig
Speaker 2: this selection so much, though, is that it kind of
Speaker 2: fills a vital gap in modern genre cinema. I don't
Speaker 2: know if this will make sense or if this is
Speaker 2: just like me thinking too long and hard about it,
Speaker 2: but I feel like this movie of the Viewing is
Speaker 2: in many ways like a B movie creature feature, only
Speaker 2: without the B movie budget limitations and with everything you know,
Speaker 2: some being somewhat subjected to a kind of like cinematic reduction,
Speaker 2: you know, and concentration of the flavors. As we've discussed
Speaker 2: on the show before, B movies of today, at least
Speaker 2: to me and I think to us to some degree,
Speaker 2: they lack the luster of those twentieth century B movies.
Speaker 2: And we've discussed some of the possible reasons why. You know,
Speaker 2: is it the technical proficiency or lack thereof sometimes in
Speaker 2: the B movies, Is it digital film and digital effects
Speaker 2: versus practical and film, or do these recent films just
Speaker 2: feel too contemporary.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of modern B movies are too
Speaker 3: self conscious and not distinctive enough. They kind of lack
Speaker 3: some of the character of the B movies of old
Speaker 3: and have a level of self consciousness that takes some
Speaker 3: of the fun out. Like I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 3: I've never gotten deep into the Sharknado series, but is like,
Speaker 3: I don't know how much of a drive I feel
Speaker 3: to watch Sharknado five, but I do kind of want
Speaker 3: to watch Jaws four again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned fun, and I think that's another key thing,
Speaker 2: like a lot of B movies from the past, that
Speaker 2: they are fun to watch this selection. The viewing is,
Speaker 2: at least to my taste, a very fun viewing experience.
Speaker 2: Every time I watch it, I laugh a little bit,
Speaker 2: I geek out over some of the visuals and the sounds,
Speaker 2: and I ponder over some of the strange choices that
Speaker 2: are made, and I think all of those things kind
Speaker 2: of match up with the sort of suite of experienperiences
Speaker 2: you tend to have with older B movies, though obviously
Speaker 2: to create this nowadays, you've got to spend a lot
Speaker 2: more money. You've got to throw in, you know, sort
Speaker 2: of a mixture of retro esthetics, absurdism in the case
Speaker 2: of Panos's film, certainly a heightened commitment to style. And
Speaker 2: I guess it's understandable when we don't see more films
Speaker 2: of this nature, because yeah, it's clearly expensive to generate.
Speaker 2: And I guess at the end of the day, there's
Speaker 2: kind of like a who is this for? Question?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't really know. I feel like
Speaker 3: his most recent feature film, Mandy, was moderately successful, was
Speaker 3: it not? Or am I wrong?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Mandy was was successful, at least
Speaker 2: as far as my understanding of its metrics go. You know,
Speaker 2: it had several different things that sort of propelled it
Speaker 2: and got people into theaters or certainly checking it out
Speaker 2: digitally later. Be it you know, the whole you know,
Speaker 2: cage rage aspect of it. You learned to see this
Speaker 2: really walked out performance from Nicolas Cage or certainly the
Speaker 2: face melting visuals and sounds of the picture. And also
Speaker 2: it had a very I guess, dependable subgenre styling to it.
Speaker 2: It is a revenge film, which is not my favorite
Speaker 2: genre of film, but it's something that you go into
Speaker 2: a movie like that you kind of know what sort
Speaker 2: of ride you're in for, and that helps propel you
Speaker 2: through it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so maybe the revenge film or other genre trappings
Speaker 3: might explain part of the success there. But I feel
Speaker 3: like there is an audience for Penos Cosmodos oh and
Speaker 3: for his style driven approach. I mean, so I've seen now,
Speaker 3: I guess, all of the major film projects of Penos Cosmotos.
Speaker 3: So he's done two features Beyond the Black Rainbow from
Speaker 3: twenty ten and Mandy from twenty eighteen, and this Cabinet
Speaker 3: of Curiosities episode. I've seen all three now and I
Speaker 3: don't know of anything else. He's really released. One thing
Speaker 3: I think they all have in common is that they
Speaker 3: are primarily texture driven rather than narrative driven. So whereas
Speaker 3: you assume most filmmaking projects start with the story idea,
Speaker 3: they start with a script or a story concept, and
Speaker 3: then they come up with the audio visual elements that
Speaker 3: are necessitated by that. They come up with sets and
Speaker 3: costumes and lighting schema and music and other visual and
Speaker 3: auditory motifs to serve and enrich the story. I think
Speaker 3: Panos's movies, I mean, I don't know about the process
Speaker 3: if it really works this way, but it feels like
Speaker 3: Panos's movies start with the texture. They start with maybe
Speaker 3: a vision of a room with sunken couches in a
Speaker 3: circle with a strange sort of pipe organ chandelier hanging
Speaker 3: above them, and a revolving table covered in lines of cocaine,
Speaker 3: surrounded by like mirrored orange radiance and AK forty seven
Speaker 3: silhouetted in gold light. And then there's a specific soundtrack
Speaker 3: to this. You can you know he's hearing it in
Speaker 3: his head. There's like a chord progression playing in a dark,
Speaker 3: saturated moge synthesize tone. Oh, and then you know, for
Speaker 3: another movie it's like I'm seeing a biker that's only
Speaker 3: in shadows, surrounded by pink light, covered head to toe
Speaker 3: in spikes like a puffer fish. But they're not spikes,
Speaker 3: they're made of rebar.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 3: And there's like a battle between two men wielding ten
Speaker 3: foot long chainsaws, and so forth and so forth, And
Speaker 3: it feels like they start with the images and the
Speaker 3: color palettes, the lighting, the music and all that, and
Speaker 3: they just kind of fill in a story or the
Speaker 3: suggestion of a story to link together all of that texture.
Speaker 3: I'd say, of the three things, maybe Mandy is the
Speaker 3: most story driven of his works, followed by this episode
Speaker 3: somewhere in the middle, and then beyond the Black Rainbow
Speaker 3: seems the least story driven in the most kind of
Speaker 3: texture driven. But in all cases it seems to me
Speaker 3: like the plot content is secondary to the sights and
Speaker 3: the sounds. And let me know in a minute if
Speaker 3: you disagree with that characterization. But I'll say, at least
Speaker 3: as far as my perception of his style goes, it's
Speaker 3: interesting to me that this is not the only film
Speaker 3: we've covered that feel like it operates this way. But
Speaker 3: in other cases, for one thing, no, it actually did
Speaker 3: operate that way in terms of how the film was made,
Speaker 3: and we know why, and it was because of ruthless
Speaker 3: concerns about budget and efficiency. So maybe Roger Corman says, oh,
Speaker 3: hot dog, we got some stock footage and some leftover
Speaker 3: sets and costumes from another movie. We got them on
Speaker 3: the cheap. Let's throw together a script that can use
Speaker 3: this footage of a rocket launching and these sparkly coats
Speaker 3: and this rented mansion in La and et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Panos's movies do not feel like this at all, to
Speaker 3: the extent that it is actually guided by an ethic
Speaker 3: of texture first, or production elements first, rather than story first.
Speaker 3: It feels like a result of a lavish, indulgent passion
Speaker 3: for the project, completely opposite from the sort of mercenary
Speaker 3: or efficiency focused attempt to wring every last drop of
Speaker 3: value out of your rentals and your commissions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a real commitment to vision, uh, with these pictures.
Speaker 2: And I love that it that it has thus far
Speaker 2: been sustained, because when Beyond the Black Rainbow came out,
Speaker 2: I loved it. You know, it's just a film you
Speaker 2: can just breathe in and and then came Mandy, and
Speaker 2: then came this, and and like each time, I'm afraid
Speaker 2: things are gonna get less weird, They're gonna maybe become
Speaker 2: more concerned with with these other aspects of cinematic storytelling.
Speaker 2: But but thus far, no, it's been it's been the weirdness,
Speaker 2: the visuals and the you know, the sites and sounds
Speaker 2: well beyond anything you've tested that come first.
Speaker 3: And to be clear, I don't know that this is
Speaker 3: how Panos operates. It's just that's how the product feels
Speaker 3: in the end. I mean, it's it's entirely possible. They
Speaker 3: do start with the script and then just something about
Speaker 3: the way, you know, the way he realizes the sights
Speaker 3: and sounds of that story are so strong they sort of,
Speaker 3: uh take take the pilot's chair in the actual viewing experience.
Speaker 3: But then this got me thinking about, well, what are
Speaker 3: the common themes in the narrative content the stories of
Speaker 3: Panos Cosmodosi's movies, And they seem to me to all
Speaker 3: represent a dual infatuation with, but also deep suspicion of
Speaker 3: the mini strands of the psychedelic and New Age American
Speaker 3: counterculture of the sixties and seventies. So you've got murderous
Speaker 3: cults of Manson type hippies. You've got demonic bikers that
Speaker 3: deal drugs from hell. You have utopian alternative healing institutions
Speaker 3: that turn into psychotic prisons, like the premise of Beyond
Speaker 3: the Black Rainbow is sort of like an Esslin Institute
Speaker 3: workshop took hostages and turned them into psychic assassins. You've
Speaker 3: got hallucinogen use that is portrayed with a kind of
Speaker 3: glamorous horror. It's a double edged sword. It's very alluring,
Speaker 3: but it also causes people to lose their minds and
Speaker 3: sometimes their souls. And the Viewing in particular has a
Speaker 3: character who seems to me to be modeled on personalities
Speaker 3: associated with the Stanford Research Institute, which we've talked about
Speaker 3: on the show before, but basically, you know, a sort
Speaker 3: of research program famous for claiming to have found scientific
Speaker 3: evidence of paranormal powers like telekinesis and remote viewing, sometimes
Speaker 3: associated with other figures in the broader New Age movement.
Speaker 3: And this character in the Viewing is explicitly portrayed as
Speaker 3: a Charlatan. And in general, it seems like Panos's vision
Speaker 3: is one that's like obsessed with these sort of hippie
Speaker 3: and new age concepts, but also views mind expansion in
Speaker 3: all its forms as something that is beautiful and appealing
Speaker 3: but often is a false promise that leads to suffering
Speaker 3: and chaos and destruction.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's very fair. I guess some
Speaker 2: of it is also probably rooted in an exploitation cinema,
Speaker 2: Like certainly when you think of Beyond the Black Rainbow,
Speaker 2: instantly reminded of Blue Sunshine, which is very much a
Speaker 2: you know, post hippies, sort of aging out hippies exploitation
Speaker 2: film about oh, well, you know that that acid you
Speaker 2: took years ago, Well, it turns out it'll make you
Speaker 2: into a bald psychopath. Now, so watch out and think
Speaker 2: twice about all the things you did ten or fifteen
Speaker 2: years ago.
Speaker 3: We may have to do Blue Sunshine one day on
Speaker 3: Weird House. One of my favorite aspects of it is that,
Speaker 3: if I remember right, doesn't all your hair fall off
Speaker 3: at once? Yes, it happens in an instant. It's like
Speaker 3: a wig that comes off. It's not gradual.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting film starring Zalman King.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I like that once it becomes clear in
Speaker 3: that movie that it's the acid that's turning people into
Speaker 3: to like kill zombies. Then you're trying to do a
Speaker 3: kind of detective thing of weight. Can we remember who
Speaker 3: took the acid at this party like twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The big difference between Blue Sunshine and the works
Speaker 2: of Panos because Monos, though, I think, is that Blue
Speaker 2: Sunshine doesn't really, as I recall, doesn't really do much
Speaker 2: to give you, like even a semi glamorous idea of
Speaker 2: what the psychedelic experience could be like, like not even
Speaker 2: like an exaggerated dreamlike cinematic quality to it. Whereas Panos
Speaker 2: is going to dip into both wells. As you said,
Speaker 2: you know, there's going to be something alluring and other
Speaker 2: worldly about it all, but also there's going to be
Speaker 2: this dark side.
Speaker 3: Though interestingly, at least to me, while the narrative content
Speaker 3: has this kind of tight obsession on like sixties and
Speaker 3: seventies hippie and new age themes, I feel like the
Speaker 3: texture that he's drawing from is time shifted a little
Speaker 3: bit later than that, like there's overlap, but it goes
Speaker 3: a little bit further into like the eighties, the kind
Speaker 3: of sights and sounds that he seems to be most
Speaker 3: sourcing from sort of a late seventies and eighties club
Speaker 3: lighting and synthesizer bath in a way, kind of a
Speaker 3: tech noir element.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you certainly know you're watching a Panosklausnato's film
Speaker 2: certainly thus far based to a large degree on the
Speaker 2: colors and the light and this like searing sense of
Speaker 2: the lights, like it's like the dead lights, you know,
Speaker 2: shining out of his pictures at you. I think some
Speaker 2: of these are called Panos flares. I think that's his.
Speaker 2: I think I picked it up somewhere. That's his name
Speaker 2: for some of these these flares you see in his films.
Speaker 3: I don't know specifically what that refers to, but there
Speaker 3: are very distinctive types of Panos shots, like he loves
Speaker 3: a car racing through the dark in the night with
Speaker 3: the dials illuminated glowing in the dark, and like synthesizer
Speaker 3: music playing, or like a character in silhouette just like
Speaker 3: just absolutely washed in colored light from behind so you
Speaker 3: can't really see their feature is you just see the
Speaker 3: outline and behind them it is like an orange sun
Speaker 3: or a pink son.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And another big aspect of is a certainly in
Speaker 2: play and Beyond the Black Rainbow, and also in play
Speaker 2: in this film to a large extent, is a kind
Speaker 2: of I would say, very like Queludian pacing at times,
Speaker 2: and I think maybe that can be that can maybe
Speaker 2: be a buried entry for some viewers who really want
Speaker 2: something that's gonna really snap and move quickly, Like things
Speaker 2: are not necessarily gonna move quickly in one of these films.
Speaker 2: It's gonna it's gonna be like a slow burning feeling.
Speaker 2: There's gonna be maybe some some some time spent like
Speaker 2: watching a weird character actor like calmly emote for a while,
Speaker 2: which which I love. But yeah, may not be everyone's
Speaker 2: cup of tea.
Speaker 3: Oh, I totally agree. No, that's another distinctive Panos thing.
Speaker 3: His films, I would say, in comprehensively lack momentum, both
Speaker 3: in terms of the overall plot and in terms of
Speaker 3: the moment to moment experience of the scenes. Like in
Speaker 3: the individual scenes, there's a lot of so like when
Speaker 3: characters are talking to each other, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: kind of stopping and starting dialogue. A lot of dialogue
Speaker 3: scenes do not really kind of like build an intensity
Speaker 3: and have an exchange of power, like you know, your
Speaker 3: dialogue writing coach would say, you're supposed to have, but
Speaker 3: they work in a totally different way. They're more just
Speaker 3: kind of painting a weird picture of interactions rather than
Speaker 3: escalating drama. That's not true of every scene, but that's
Speaker 3: very often true. And then I would say overall, yeah,
Speaker 3: there are the movies do build up towards something, but
Speaker 3: they don't have that kind of relentless, snowballing feeling where
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, I've got to see what happens in
Speaker 3: the next scene. You have to kind of like submit
Speaker 3: to one of these films and say like, I'm just
Speaker 3: ready for it, and I think it's a very fun
Speaker 3: and rewarding experience, but it Yeah, they don't pull you
Speaker 3: with that like Page Turner thriller quality, whatever the movie
Speaker 3: equivalent of that is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this this one. I have to say. When I
Speaker 2: saw it for the first time, I went in without
Speaker 2: I think even having seen a screenshot from it. I
Speaker 2: just I knew that it was Panelsco's mottos and that
Speaker 2: I was going to be on board for it, but
Speaker 2: not knowing anything about even what the plot was or
Speaker 2: what the viewing referred to it did feel very unsafe,
Speaker 2: you know, like I just really didn't know what kind
Speaker 2: of story this was going to be. And it's not
Speaker 2: entirely clear for a large portion of the runtime what
Speaker 2: kind of story it's going to ultimately be. It's not
Speaker 2: really into the last say, twelve minutes of the like
Speaker 2: just less than an hour runtime, that things really come
Speaker 2: to a head.
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of this thing is just character
Speaker 3: is doing drugs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. So yeah, that kind of brings me
Speaker 2: to my elevator pitch, is that this is essentially House
Speaker 2: on Haunted Hill, except instead of money and ghosts, it's
Speaker 2: drugs and face melting encounters.
Speaker 3: Now, Rob, is this one where you were saying that
Speaker 3: the trailer spoils the ending.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say the trailer spoils anything, per se. I
Speaker 2: just I kind of wanted for you something akin to
Speaker 2: my experience with it, where you didn't know exactly what
Speaker 2: was going to happen.
Speaker 3: Well, based on your recommendation, I did not watch the trailer.
Speaker 3: I just went in cold, and I'm glad I did.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I liked not knowing where it was going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is gonna be twenty five seconds of
Speaker 2: trailer audio. So if you want to skip it, skip
Speaker 2: ahead about twenty five seconds. Let's have a listen.
Speaker 1: What are your name?
Speaker 4: Tonight?
Speaker 2: I'm going to gift you an eight transcendence.
Speaker 3: At the greatest expense.
Speaker 4: Asmarizing all right now, if you would like to experience
Speaker 4: the viewing before we proceed with the discussion here well
Speaker 4: as of this recording, the only way to experience it
Speaker 4: is as the seventh episode of Germeal de Toro's Cabin
Speaker 4: of Curiosities, as you mentioned earlier, on the streaming platform Netflix.
Speaker 2: But I really hope it does get a physical release
Speaker 2: at some point, either on its own or as part
Speaker 2: of this series, which as we were just talking to
Speaker 2: JJ about, I think, I think it's it's rather good.
Speaker 2: It's it's varied, it has some has a couple of
Speaker 2: other high points as far as my taste go. And
Speaker 2: also I think there's there's a nice variety. Like some
Speaker 2: of the the episodes are more thoughtful and character driven.
Speaker 2: A couple of them are certainly more tales from the
Speaker 2: crypt ish in their you know, their basic structure. You know,
Speaker 2: here's a terrible person. He's become involved with some sort
Speaker 2: of supernatural element and he's going to get.
Speaker 3: His This is the only ups of this I've actually seen,
Speaker 3: so if I watch more, I may come back to
Speaker 3: it in October. Be good seasonal viewing. I don't know
Speaker 3: if they're going to do another one.
Speaker 2: I don't know that they've said one way or another.
Speaker 2: I think Del Toro has said that he's interested in
Speaker 2: heading it up, but I think I saw a quote
Speaker 2: where he's like, but if it doesn't happen, I'll also
Speaker 2: be a little bit relieved because it's a lot of work.
Speaker 2: So fingers crossed. All right, let's talk about the people
Speaker 2: involved here, So we'll start at the top here with
Speaker 2: Panos Cosmontos, the director and one of the writers on
Speaker 2: this piece. Born nineteen seventy four Italian Canadian film director
Speaker 2: and screenwriter. He's the son of director George P. Cosmotos,
Speaker 2: who lived nineteen forty one through two thousand and five,
Speaker 2: who himself gave us such weird films as nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: three's of Unknown Origin and nineteen eighty nine's Leviathan.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that connection until right before we came
Speaker 3: into record, but that'll come up again in a minute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's also he's he also brought to brought us
Speaker 2: some some mainstream action films like Rainbow Rambow, or rather
Speaker 2: First Blood Part two Rainbow. Yeah, Cobra from nineteen eighty six,
Speaker 2: that's another stallone, and Tombstone from nineteen ninety three, a
Speaker 2: popular Western. Panos, by the way, who would have been
Speaker 2: I think eighteen at the time, has a credit on
Speaker 2: that film some sort of like assistant video operator in
Speaker 2: the second unit. So, as we've been discussing, Panos's own
Speaker 2: writing and directing debut was twenty tens Beyond the Black Rainbow,
Speaker 2: followed by the Nicholas Cage helmed revenge horror movie Mandy.
Speaker 2: And then comes the Viewing, which I feel takes a
Speaker 2: slightly more absurdist approach and also dials down like the
Speaker 2: number of things he's trying to accomplish in the picture,
Speaker 2: while still going just all in and all out on
Speaker 2: its main set pieces.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, And this may just be in
Speaker 3: part due to its shorter run time, but the viewing
Speaker 3: takes us on fewer wild turns on the journey than
Speaker 3: his other two movies do, but the turns that are
Speaker 3: taken are just as wild. Yeah.
Speaker 2: As for his next film, I believe it is set
Speaker 2: to be something titled Necrocosm. I don't know that we
Speaker 2: really know anything about what this is going to consist of,
Speaker 2: except that it's supposedly going to be more of a
Speaker 2: sci fi film, so I'm excited to find out what
Speaker 2: it could possibly be. Now. His co writer on this
Speaker 2: is Aaron stuart On. I'm not sure about the dates
Speaker 2: for this writer, but he was one of the co
Speaker 2: writers of Mandy, alongside Panos and one Casper Kelly. He
Speaker 2: was also a staff writer on the twenty twenty two
Speaker 2: series The Witcher Blood Origin, and as a director, he
Speaker 2: directed a couple of Decembrist videos as well as a
Speaker 2: video for Death Cab for Qtie. Now getting into the
Speaker 2: cast here, yes, heading this up playing the character Lionel
Speaker 2: Lassiter is Peter Weller for nineteen forty seven American actor
Speaker 2: and director who's acting or goes all the way back
Speaker 2: into the early seventies and he's still active today. He
Speaker 2: started out on Broadway, then did some TV, did a
Speaker 2: little bit of film, and then starred in George P.
Speaker 2: Coosmatos's nineteen eighty three psychological thriller of unknown Origin, a
Speaker 2: movie I have not seen, but I've heard good things about.
Speaker 2: It's a psychological horror film about a man who becomes
Speaker 2: obsessed with killing a rat that's infesting his home.
Speaker 3: I don't know, that sounds like a premise of like
Speaker 3: a comedy. You know, this guy's like, oh, this rat's
Speaker 3: driving me crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's one of those those plots that
Speaker 2: could go either way, but anyway. So that was eighty
Speaker 2: threes of unknown origin. Then in nineteen eighty four he
Speaker 2: played the title role in the Adventures of Buckaro Bonzai
Speaker 2: Across the Eighth Dimension, which of course has a deliriously
Speaker 2: weird cast and is a well known weird cult film.
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty seven, he became RoboCop, a role he
Speaker 2: would play again in nineteen nineties RoboCop two. Other films
Speaker 2: of note, at least to us include the nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: nine underwater horror sci fi film Leviathan, which was also
Speaker 2: directed by George Picos Mottos, Cronenberg's Naked Lunch in ninety one,
Speaker 2: Screamers in ninety five that's based on a Philip K.
Speaker 2: Dick short story called Second Variety, and he's done more
Speaker 2: and more TV work in recent decades, including Sons of
Speaker 2: Anarchy star Trek Enterprise, He's done some Batman voiceover work,
Speaker 2: and as a TV director, he's been rather prolific there
Speaker 2: as well. Since the mid nineties, I believe, directed numerous
Speaker 2: episodes of such shows as Homicide, Life on the Street,
Speaker 2: Sons of Anarchy, and more.
Speaker 3: You know, I first came to love Peter Weller as
Speaker 3: RoboCop and as Buckery Bonzai, as well as in some
Speaker 3: relatively I think kind of cold performances in B movies,
Speaker 3: like you mentioned the eighty nine underwater horror thriller Leviathan,
Speaker 3: where in that movie, one of the things I remember
Speaker 3: is he wears a hat so stiff it should have
Speaker 3: still had the price tag stuck to it, Like, you know,
Speaker 3: he's playing this like underwater drill rig manager, but it's
Speaker 3: this hat that's like the brim has never once been
Speaker 3: gripped by a human hand. But yeah, in a lot
Speaker 3: of these movies I'm familiar with, he's you know, playing
Speaker 3: the handsome cool as a cucumber leading man. But in
Speaker 3: his later career, Peter Weller has really aged into a
Speaker 3: totally different kind of performer, a sort of reptilian character
Speaker 3: actor who if they were remaking the Super Mario Brothers
Speaker 3: movie today, in the style of the one with Bob Hoskins.
Speaker 3: I think Peter Weller would be an excellent choice to
Speaker 3: play Dennis Hopper's King Koopa. This man, he so easily
Speaker 3: inhabits the role of a character who has experienced beyond
Speaker 3: pleasure and pain, beyond good and evil, And you could
Speaker 3: easily make high quality Sawyer family furniture out of him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's really fun in this as an immoral, vampire
Speaker 2: esque rich, beyond conscious rec loose. It would be benefactor
Speaker 2: of artists and academics. It seems like a role he
Speaker 2: really gets to ease into and have a lot of
Speaker 2: fun with.
Speaker 3: He plays a living mummy who encourages you to sin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and but but very convincing and charismatic. And I
Speaker 2: think we're talking we're talking about this beforehand, Like how
Speaker 2: many actors today can can use the word daddy O
Speaker 2: in a fixture and it's still come off as cool.
Speaker 3: And suave, you know, oh yeah, you yeah.
Speaker 2: The comparison to Dennis Hopper, I think is key, Like
Speaker 2: this is a role you could it would have been
Speaker 2: a different line of lassiter, it would have had certainly
Speaker 2: it would have had a different energy to it, But
Speaker 2: Dennis Hopper could have played this role as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would have been a more high strong line Lassiter,
Speaker 3: I think, m huh, but yeah, I could see.
Speaker 2: That all right alone. Alassiter has an attendant. He has
Speaker 2: a couple of attendants, but he has a doctor that
Speaker 2: attends to him by the name of doctor Zara, played
Speaker 2: by Sophia Boutella born nineteen eighty two, French Algerian actress,
Speaker 2: dancer and model. If you're not sure who I'm talking about,
Speaker 2: if if you saw a picture of her, you would
Speaker 2: recognize her. She's been in twenty fourteen's Kingsman, The Secret Service,
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen Star Trek Beyond. I think she has a
Speaker 2: lot of makeup on in that one. She was in
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen's Atomic Blonde, and she was in twenty seventeens
Speaker 2: The Mummy, in which she plays the Mummy battling Tom Cruise.
Speaker 2: She's the Mummy in that Mummy movie.
Speaker 3: All right, yeah, so she's on posters in all Does
Speaker 3: she defeat Tom Cruise in the end?
Speaker 2: I hope so, yeah, yeah, I think so. I think
Speaker 2: she defeats him, wraps him up, stores him away, and
Speaker 2: takes over the world. I never saw it, but that's
Speaker 2: my assumption because they didn't do anything else with that series,
Speaker 2: so it must have wrapped up. She's also going to
Speaker 2: the star in Zack Snyder's upcoming sci fi film, Rebel Moon,
Speaker 2: and it looks like she's prominently featured on the posters
Speaker 2: for that. But in this she comes off like a
Speaker 2: total vampire, a total seductress. In fact, when I first
Speaker 2: started watching this, I just assumed that both Doctor Zara
Speaker 2: and Line Lassiter must be vampires. That must be where
Speaker 2: this episode is going. Turns out that's not the case,
Speaker 2: but there's still a vampire quality to these characters.
Speaker 3: Yeah. She has a clear fascination with power and evil
Speaker 3: that you can sort of almost like feel in her
Speaker 3: mouth when she talks about it.
Speaker 2: All right, We also have a character by the name
Speaker 2: of Randall Roth played by Eric Andre born nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: three American comedian, actor, and musician. Probably best known, I guess,
Speaker 2: depending on your age and you know what your interests are,
Speaker 2: but probably best known for Adult Swim's The Eric Andre
Speaker 2: Show or his role on the second season of HBO's
Speaker 2: The Righteous Gemstones. Oh yeah, but he's popped up in
Speaker 2: a lot of things. Over the years and else of
Speaker 2: course he has a stand that career. He does music.
Speaker 2: I think that I'm probably, like, not generally the target
Speaker 2: audience for his comedy, So I wasn't sure going into
Speaker 2: this film for the first time exactly what sort of
Speaker 2: performance we'd be in for. But I ultimately thought he
Speaker 2: was great in this. He's able to lean into the
Speaker 2: more absurd and energetic aspects of the script, like when
Speaker 2: this character is like screaming or running, you know, he
Speaker 2: does a great job with that. But I also thought
Speaker 2: he brought a lot of believability to the character in
Speaker 2: the quieter moments.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, maybe I am more the target audience of
Speaker 3: his comedy. I don't know. I kept expecting him to
Speaker 3: reply to Liona Lassiter saying I don't trust like that.
Speaker 3: It is always surprising to me to see Eric Andre
Speaker 3: in rolls where he's actually playing a scripted character. I
Speaker 3: guess because on the Eric Andre Show, his personality is
Speaker 3: like an extreme weather event. It's just totally uncontrollable and chaotic,
Speaker 3: and it seems hard to believe that he could actually
Speaker 3: just like say his line and being character. But of
Speaker 3: course he can, and he's quite good at it. I
Speaker 3: really really enjoyed him in season two of The Righteous Gemstones,
Speaker 3: and I think he's great here too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a real treat, all right. The next actor
Speaker 2: of note here, playing the character Charlotte G is Charlene
Speaker 2: Yee born nineteen eighty six American actor, comedian, musician, and writer.
Speaker 2: I believe they have improv and musical roots. Their first
Speaker 2: film role was two thousand and sevens Knocked Up from
Speaker 2: Judd Apatow, and they worked with him on some other
Speaker 2: projects as well. Their voice work includes such Cartoon Network
Speaker 2: shows as Steven Universe and We Bear Bears.
Speaker 3: I think this character is interesting because it is a
Speaker 3: very modest and socially awkward scientist character who is surrounded
Speaker 3: mostly by hedonists and other various siniesthetes.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. As we'll get to it, there's a
Speaker 2: part where everyone gets their favorite drink, and Charlotte's favorite
Speaker 2: drink is just a ginger ale. But I assume a
Speaker 2: really good one, like one of those that comes in
Speaker 2: a nice bottle and you know it doesn't have a
Speaker 2: lot of like crazy artificial sweeteners in it where you
Speaker 2: can really taste the ginger.
Speaker 3: I too, appreciate a high quality ginger Ale.
Speaker 2: But anyway, this, Yeah, this is a fun performance, adorable, awkward,
Speaker 2: believable in many many nice ways, like as we'll get
Speaker 2: into the dialogue in this at times I think has
Speaker 2: an intentional clunkiness to it. Yes, and it's interesting to
Speaker 2: see which performers are able to breathe more life into
Speaker 2: those lines and which and the ones that I'm not
Speaker 2: going to say can't but but don't perhaps due to
Speaker 2: artistic choices. So I tended to believe Charlotte is a
Speaker 2: character which I think pays off in the end. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: all right. We also have Steve Ag playing Guy Landon,
Speaker 2: who is kind of a grumpy caricature of a popular novelist.
Speaker 2: I don't know who in particular this might be patterned after. It.
Speaker 2: It's not Stephen King type character, but it's some sort
Speaker 2: of popular novelist who maybe is not putting out as
Speaker 2: successful of work as he did in previous years.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm trying to think what novelists in the seventies
Speaker 3: would be showing up on a lot of late night
Speaker 3: talk shows. Is this supposed to be Norman Mahler or something? Maybe?
Speaker 2: Maybe? So, Now Steve Age is an actor that's going
Speaker 2: to be familiar to a number of you. Born nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty nine, another noted comedic performer, best known to many
Speaker 2: for his recent work on some of the James Gunn
Speaker 2: DC shows and films. I haven't watched any of those,
Speaker 2: but I think he has a recurring character on those.
Speaker 2: I know him mostly from his role as Steve, one
Speaker 2: of the neighbors I believe, on the Sarah Silverman program
Speaker 2: that ran two thousand and seven through twenty ten. He's
Speaker 2: also done a lot of voice work as well, because
Speaker 2: very distinctive work, and like I say, is definitely a
Speaker 2: great comedic performer and can breathe a lot of life
Speaker 2: into a comedic role.
Speaker 3: He plays a role that conspicuously swears a lot.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, swears a lot, and I think ultimately has
Speaker 2: kind of like a B cinema feel to it, because yeah,
Speaker 2: this is a character. This is the character where the
Speaker 2: clunkier lines of dialogue feel intentionally clunky. Yes, but in
Speaker 2: a way that kind of works.
Speaker 3: He talks kind of like a like he was written
Speaker 3: to sound like a detective in a in a hack
Speaker 3: seventies cop movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely one of the performances in the film.
Speaker 2: Every time I watch it. I kind of like, I
Speaker 2: kind kind of think it over a lot, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: what is what is it about this this performance that like,
Speaker 2: why does it feel this way? You know? And and
Speaker 2: I kind of go back and forth onto what degree
Speaker 2: it works and I think I'm landing currently, Yeah, in
Speaker 2: the area that it that it absolutely works, but it
Speaker 2: is it's supposed to have this kind of B cinema
Speaker 2: clunkiness to it. Now. We also have a character the
Speaker 2: name of Targ Reinhardt played by Michael Fario, Canadian actor
Speaker 2: with extensive Shakespearean theater credits. His TV credits include Himlock Grove,
Speaker 2: Rain and Chucky The Child's Play TV series. He has
Speaker 2: a recurring role on that. Yeah, in this he's a
Speaker 2: fraudulent psychic. Was that what you would say?
Speaker 3: Psychic? And I think just sort of like New Age
Speaker 3: movement figure it seems so. The character is named targ Reindheart,
Speaker 3: and I think this absolutely must be named after Russell
Speaker 3: targ the American parapsychologist and physicist who was famous for
Speaker 3: being one of the researchers affiliated with the Stanford Research
Speaker 3: Institute trying to prove the validity of various paranormal phenomena
Speaker 3: like remote viewing. And so this character seems to me
Speaker 3: to be a caricature of first of all, like a
Speaker 3: combination of paranormal evangelists like targ and hal put Off
Speaker 3: and people, but also of their most famous subject, Uri Geller.
Speaker 2: Okay, absolutely, and I think there is some there's there's
Speaker 2: mention of bending spoons with with one's mind, yeah in
Speaker 2: this in this film. But yeah, this this is a
Speaker 2: very pompous and ridiculous, over the top character. It's clearly
Speaker 2: here mostly to just be mocked and for comedic effect,
Speaker 2: and u And is successful in that role.
Speaker 3: He multiple times is caught talking about that which he knows,
Speaker 3: not like he's trying to apply in on architecture and
Speaker 3: then like he doesn't actually know anything about architecture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of Guy Landon's lines are him just
Speaker 2: you know, poking fun or at or calling this character
Speaker 2: out on his bs. We also have a character named Hector,
Speaker 2: who we ultimately don't know much about. He has this
Speaker 2: great moment where it looks like he's going to tell
Speaker 2: us his story, but then he gets cut off and
Speaker 2: doesn't get to tell the story. But Hector is played
Speaker 2: by sad Sadiki Pakistan born actor with TV and film
Speaker 2: credits going back around two thousand seven. He's popped up
Speaker 2: on such shows as Nikita, Orphan, Black Star, Trek, Discovery,
Speaker 2: The Handmaid's Tale, and DC's Legends of Tomorrow.
Speaker 3: I like his vibe. I like ye. Hector has a
Speaker 3: lot of scenes of just kind of standing there looking
Speaker 3: at the rest of the cast and kind of gently
Speaker 3: smiling or nodding.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all.
Speaker 3: It's a good vibe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like I think low key, the best humorous
Speaker 2: character in the film. He's used very well.
Speaker 3: Wait does he the one driving the van when he
Speaker 3: tells everybody they have to stop talking and listen to
Speaker 3: the audio program?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I believe he is. All right now, mild spoiler,
Speaker 2: there will be a creature suit in this in this film,
Speaker 2: and the actor in that creature suit is Kevin Keppi,
Speaker 2: a six ' five character and creature actor whose credits
Speaker 2: include another installment of Cabinet of Curiosities and also the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two movie Smile, in which he plays a
Speaker 2: character credited as Nightmare Mom. So, like I said, I,
Speaker 2: if there's anybody that is in a creature suit in
Speaker 2: a picture, I always want to call him out because
Speaker 2: I get the impression. I'm not sure what all went
Speaker 2: into making the creature we see later in the film work,
Speaker 2: but it looks like there's some good physical performance at
Speaker 2: the heart of it.
Speaker 3: Well, you said six five character and creature actor. Did
Speaker 3: you mean this actor is six foot five inches or
Speaker 3: you are rating this person six out of five?
Speaker 2: No, he's six foot five so okay, he's based on
Speaker 2: the images I've seen of him, he's like a tall
Speaker 2: slender man, which you know, as we've seen it seems
Speaker 2: to work well for a lot of modern physical horror characters.
Speaker 2: Like back in the old day, in the gorilla suit days,
Speaker 2: which you really wanted was more of like a short,
Speaker 2: thick individual who could really occupy that gorilla suit. And
Speaker 2: then the gorilla suit still has a place in modern monsters,
Speaker 2: I think, but it seems like, you know, past few decades,
Speaker 2: some of the real standouts have been more of the
Speaker 2: that the tall, lanky sort. Finally getting to the music
Speaker 2: on this one, which is the music is always an
Speaker 2: important part of a Penos Cosmatos film. Beyond the Black
Speaker 2: Rainbow featured the work of Sonoia Caves, the solo project
Speaker 2: of Black Mountain synth player Jeremy Schmidt. Mandy featured one
Speaker 2: of the final scores of Johann Johansen, and this one
Speaker 2: is scored by experimental electronic artist Daniel Lopatin born nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty two. He also did the score for twenty nineteens
Speaker 2: Uncut Gems, which that's the Adam Sandler film that I
Speaker 2: thought was depressing but quite good and had a great,
Speaker 2: great score.
Speaker 3: It's a downer and it's highly stressful, but it's a
Speaker 3: great movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Lopattin also did twenty seventeens Good Time, twenty
Speaker 2: fifteens Partisan, and twenty thirteen's The Bling Ring. I think
Speaker 2: that was a Sofia Coppola film. And his main solo
Speaker 2: project is one O Trick Point Never or opn. I
Speaker 2: believe he's signed a warp. I'm not familiar with his discography,
Speaker 2: but but JJ is JJ chimed in here and and
Speaker 2: set a straight on how to pronounce this one O
Speaker 2: tricks point Never. I'm gonna have to have to check
Speaker 2: it out. I haven't. I haven't really checked anything out
Speaker 2: beyond his work for this particular film, but it's I
Speaker 2: feel like that the score for the viewing it has
Speaker 2: some nice range to it. At times there's kind of
Speaker 2: this like an Andy's tape loop kind of a thing
Speaker 2: going on, like some some looped flutes playing. Other times
Speaker 2: it's like a driving eighties pot feel, or other times,
Speaker 2: of course, it's glittering synths and much more.
Speaker 3: There's also just kind of an eighties bass club loop
Speaker 3: that plays a bit while they're they're hanging out on
Speaker 3: the couch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and then and and it's it's varied in
Speaker 2: part because this music also makes up the custom soundtrack
Speaker 2: that Lionel Lassiter has commissioned for for his house, so
Speaker 2: it's a lot of fun. Anyway. You can find a
Speaker 2: mash up of all of his music for the viewing
Speaker 2: in the track The Viewing Suite, which was released on
Speaker 2: the Cabinet of Curiosity soundtrack. You can stream that wherever
Speaker 2: you get your music.
Speaker 3: Did you ever get the sense that when Lionel Lassiter
Speaker 3: was bragging about the things he had people make for him,
Speaker 3: it was kind of like Panos was in the character
Speaker 3: bragging about the things he had people make for him
Speaker 3: for his movie His House.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess in a sense you could apply that
Speaker 2: to Panos, but also Gama del Toro. You know. Gama
Speaker 2: de Toros, you know, is well known for being sort
Speaker 2: of like the maestro at the center of the film,
Speaker 2: bringing on a lot of like very talented individuals to
Speaker 2: help craft you know, not only you know, the performance
Speaker 2: of the roles, but certainly like all the artistry, bringing
Speaker 2: in you know, well known illustrators and so forth to
Speaker 2: help bring something alive visually. So in a way, Lassiter
Speaker 2: is kind of like this darker vision of a Panel
Speaker 2: or a Guillermo. And in a way though that whereas
Speaker 2: whereas Panos and Gammon Adota are both trying to create
Speaker 2: something for the world to consume, Lionel Laster is creating
Speaker 2: something entirely for his own enjoyment at least. I mean,
Speaker 2: he also seems to want to you know, send people
Speaker 2: off in the world to do great things, but he
Speaker 2: also wants some things just for himself.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, I guess this is the part of
Speaker 3: the episode where we would normally talk about the plot.
Speaker 3: But as we talked about earlier, number one, Panos films
Speaker 3: are not especially plot driven, so I don't think this
Speaker 3: This doesn't feel like one where it really makes sense
Speaker 3: to me to recap the plot in minute detail. Maybe instead,
Speaker 3: I think we should like focus on the series of
Speaker 3: sets and set pieces that emerge in succession throughout the
Speaker 3: runtime and discuss how they're used.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have we don't have, Well, I said, we
Speaker 2: don't have very many set pieces in this film, but
Speaker 2: the ones that we do have are are pretty splendid
Speaker 2: and we get to spend a lot of time in them.
Speaker 3: Now, at the beginning, we get the characters before they
Speaker 3: go to Lassiter's mansion, gathering in a parking garage, so
Speaker 3: they all the all the main characters, the four main
Speaker 3: characters have been summoned to Lassiter's house house on Haunted
Speaker 3: Hills style with a formal invitation. They don't know each other,
Speaker 3: and they don't know him, though it seems they I
Speaker 3: think all know about him. He seems to have a
Speaker 3: reputation for being rich and powerful, though people don't know
Speaker 3: how he made his fortune.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there seems to be. They describe him as being
Speaker 2: someone that used to see on TV one assumes all
Speaker 2: the time, and now he's become more reclusive and more mysterious,
Speaker 2: and yeah, suddenly there's an invitation to attend a viewing
Speaker 2: at his fabulous Sandpiper House, which you get the impression
Speaker 2: is like the house itself is famous because it is,
Speaker 2: you know, no doubt, and you know, designed by some
Speaker 2: truly gifted architect and every aspect of it has been
Speaker 2: tailored to Linel Lasseter's a specific tastes.
Speaker 3: What do you think about setting the meeting of these
Speaker 3: characters in this dark parking garage at night? Something about
Speaker 3: that just seems like such a powerful allusion to films
Speaker 3: of the eighties that seemed to me very obsessed with
Speaker 3: the parking garage as a threatening atmosphere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess some of that is
Speaker 2: what post Watergate, right, that parking garages are where, you know, shadier,
Speaker 2: secretive dealings go on. The parking garage is also the
Speaker 2: it's the underworld that we have created to allow our
Speaker 2: vehicular obsession to take over everything. And it's it's interesting,
Speaker 2: this is the the main view we get of the
Speaker 2: outside world of this film. That we do get a
Speaker 2: wider view at the end of a city of the
Speaker 2: city scape, but the city scape is also going to
Speaker 2: be very parking deck esque, you know, like sort of
Speaker 2: just grimy, dismal, concrete, kind of a world devoid of flavor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we meet the characters they meet. I think
Speaker 3: it's when Charlotte the astrophysicist arrives and meets the other characters.
Speaker 3: They sort of introduce each other and they say, what
Speaker 3: do they all have in common? They don't know each other,
Speaker 3: but they say they've all been on late night talk shows.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh man, this just seems like so
Speaker 3: much in the Panos lane. This like seventies New Age lane.
Speaker 3: You're imagining people who would show up on a seventies
Speaker 3: late night talk show to talk about how they've you know,
Speaker 3: discovered psychic powers are real or something. I'm kind of
Speaker 3: imagining it's the show where they interview the TV set
Speaker 3: containing Professor Brian Oblivion and videodrome.
Speaker 2: So not even like a second or third guest on
Speaker 2: say Late Night with David Letterman back in the day,
Speaker 2: but like somebody you would see on some other strange
Speaker 2: talk show that is in the even later that comes
Speaker 2: on after Letterman.
Speaker 3: I don't even know if that's a real thing. I
Speaker 3: have an impression that it was that there were like weirder,
Speaker 3: sort of more off brand talk shows that would have
Speaker 3: the like really zany guests and everything. Back then, you know,
Speaker 3: you got your mainstream I don't know, Dick Cavit and stuff,
Speaker 3: and then you've got the stuff that comes on late
Speaker 3: at night. Is that even real? I don't know, but
Speaker 3: Panos has convinced me that's part of part of history.
Speaker 2: I think it may have been the case, especially in
Speaker 2: markets like LA and New York.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like what is in Ghostbusters too. Peter Vinkman runs
Speaker 3: a weird talk show, doesn't they And I feel like
Speaker 3: that must be sort of parodying something that existed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'd be interested to hear from folks who
Speaker 2: grew up in those media markets that can can speak
Speaker 2: to that. So anyway, these are these are characters who
Speaker 2: they're used to getting the invitation and accepting, apparently without
Speaker 2: really too much thought into the patter. And they have accepted,
Speaker 2: they say, yeah, I'll go to the Sam Piper House
Speaker 2: and neat line all asciter. And so the van has
Speaker 2: come to pick them up.
Speaker 3: Now the van is being driven by the character Hector,
Speaker 3: and this is the part where they're initially talking as
Speaker 3: they load into the back of the van and drive along.
Speaker 3: But at some point Hector tells them to stop talking
Speaker 3: and they have to listen to it. I think he
Speaker 3: calls it the audio program, but it's like the Lassetter
Speaker 3: has some music that they are specifically assigned to listen
Speaker 3: to on the on the right of the house, more
Speaker 3: synth music. And I don't know that I like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was kind of wondering if at one point
Speaker 2: it was going they were going to have like some
Speaker 2: Peter Weller voice over there and that was gonna be
Speaker 2: the audio program. Then they decided that the synth music
Speaker 2: work better. But yeah, at any rate, I like it.
Speaker 3: No, this is just that this is the music he
Speaker 3: wants them to listen to. And I think it's somewhere
Speaker 3: around here that we also first get our glimpse of
Speaker 3: Peter Weller's character Lionel Lasseter himself, where we see him
Speaker 3: in an environment just flooded with orange light, with his
Speaker 3: head almost looking kind of triangular, surrounded by wispy gray
Speaker 3: or white hair, and he looks like an absolute lizard,
Speaker 3: kind of a vampire, kind of a mummy. Or also
Speaker 3: I thought of a very specific movie analog, which is
Speaker 3: he looks like the witch in the Stan Winston movie Pumpkinhead.
Speaker 2: Hmmm. I think that's that's a strong possibility, because I mean,
Speaker 2: Panos loves his weird colored lights, but he also includes
Speaker 2: many homages to different films, and you know, this seems
Speaker 2: kind of like one of those sort of rub the
Speaker 2: fur films, certainly from the you know, the decades of
Speaker 2: interest to this filmmaker.
Speaker 3: And I think we've talked about on the show before
Speaker 3: that Pumpkinhead kind of has some shortcomings in terms of storytelling,
Speaker 3: but has some great visual flare. There are a lot
Speaker 3: of scenes with really excellent horror atmosphere and lighting and
Speaker 3: a good, tall, spindly creature that I think you could
Speaker 3: compare somewhat to this one later on.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good point. That's a good point.
Speaker 3: But anyway, so they are taken to the mansion, to
Speaker 3: the Sandpiper House, and they are summoned to this living
Speaker 3: room with a circle of sunken couches in the middle
Speaker 3: of the floor. And I think this room, I again
Speaker 3: just get the feeling that the vision of this room
Speaker 3: was a major reason this episode was made, so I
Speaker 3: think we should describe it in great detail. So it's,
Speaker 3: like I said, in the middle of the room, there
Speaker 3: is a table and it is surrounded by sunken couches
Speaker 3: with sort of leather what do you call that kind
Speaker 3: of stuffed leather backing. And then in the middle of
Speaker 3: the room there is a chandelier of sorts that looks
Speaker 3: like an inverted conical mound of organ pipes or maybe
Speaker 3: like a columnar basalt hanging from the ceiling, so the
Speaker 3: ceiling slopes inward toward it, and then it forms a
Speaker 3: kind of almost like a like a nozzle or a
Speaker 3: nipple in the middle of the ceiling of these like
Speaker 3: you know, pillars all around. On the floor, there is
Speaker 3: this decorative motif that's like these big U shaped bins
Speaker 3: like giant horseshoe magnets with long bars coming out. It
Speaker 3: seems kind of a maybe kind of an Art Deco
Speaker 3: suggestive design. And then the room is is a wash
Speaker 3: in gold and orange light. And then on the walls
Speaker 3: there are these back lit circular panels that have guns
Speaker 3: mounted in them. So there's like an AK forty seven
Speaker 3: that you only see in shadow because it's got gold
Speaker 3: light blasting from behind it.
Speaker 2: Yes, and yet there's a hint of Aztec architecture to
Speaker 2: the whole thing, isn't there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's that's what the character targ says. He's
Speaker 3: like musing about how it's as tech inspired or something,
Speaker 3: and is repeatedly called out for not knowing what he's
Speaker 3: talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this, this whole space is just splendid, like you
Speaker 2: when you first roll into it, and and as you
Speaker 2: roll into this this kind of a point of view shot,
Speaker 2: it feels like this is a space you're exploring in
Speaker 2: the film Baraka. You know, it feels otherworldly and kind
Speaker 2: of sacred. It also feels like maybe it should be
Speaker 2: on Iracus, you know it. Oh man, it's just such
Speaker 2: a strange and lovely set.
Speaker 3: Now when they first arrive, I think it's interesting that
Speaker 3: Lasseter's people start a succession of treats which are like
Speaker 3: it starts with a drink of choice for each person,
Speaker 3: but progresses into alcohol and drugs that there. It's like
Speaker 3: a it's almost like a tasting course of different sort
Speaker 3: of enticements for the mouth, most beverage based and then
Speaker 3: drug based. So the first thing that they see when
Speaker 3: they get there is they're asked to sit next to
Speaker 3: your favorite drink. So for Targ, it is a beer
Speaker 3: that he dubs superb, And I was thinking, is beer
Speaker 3: really Targ's drink? I don't know, But then The funniest
Speaker 3: one for me is landon sits down. He tastes something,
Speaker 3: he's like, wow, it's the perfect screwdriver.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is so strange because a screwdriver. I mean,
Speaker 2: if memory serves screwdrivers, just vodka and orange juice.
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, that's what it is. That's a I don't
Speaker 3: want to insult. I mean, you know, if people enjoy
Speaker 3: screwdriver or whatever, but I think of it that's a
Speaker 3: utility drink. That's something I think of, like, I don't
Speaker 3: know college students drinking. It's it's not usually the kind
Speaker 3: of thing where people would be like, oh, it's amazing,
Speaker 3: superb screwdriver.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's And I guess that's why it's so funny,
Speaker 2: because yeah, I don't even think the proportions are necessary
Speaker 2: for the screwdriver, like on a lark here. I went
Speaker 2: to Imbibe Magazine's website and I was like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna put in screwdriver and see if it comes up,
Speaker 2: because sometimes they have they'll still have some very simple
Speaker 2: classic drink cocktail cocktail recipes listed there, but nothing comes
Speaker 2: up for screwdriver. They're just like, get out of here,
Speaker 2: looking for a screwdriver on this website.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so there's that. But then also with the
Speaker 3: other characters get as interesting. Charlotte gets just a ginger ale.
Speaker 3: I think we mentioned that earlier. It says it's great
Speaker 3: ginger ale. And then for all there, Andre's character gets
Speaker 3: some Lapsong souchong tea. No, I don't know anything about that.
Speaker 3: But Robbie, do you have an opinion on what's the
Speaker 3: perfect Lapsong sou chong.
Speaker 2: This is not a tea I have any knowledge off,
Speaker 2: so I can't. I don't know. There are so many
Speaker 2: teas and I am only familiar with the very slim
Speaker 2: selection of them. But I do like the detail where
Speaker 2: he says it's just the right amount of honey as
Speaker 2: sweetener sore. They're their host line. Lassiter here seems to
Speaker 2: have just a supernatural knowledge of what their exact desires are.
Speaker 3: I just looked it up. It israel. Lapsung sou chong
Speaker 3: is a black tea made with camillia sinence sleeves, that
Speaker 3: is smoke dried over a pine wood fire, cold smoked.
Speaker 2: Hmm, well that sounds quite good. That yeah. Targs beer,
Speaker 2: He's like, it's it's a perfect beer.
Speaker 4: It's so cold.
Speaker 3: Okay, well anyway, but like I said, there's sort of
Speaker 3: a series. It's like it's like a tasting course menu,
Speaker 3: you know, there is a series of temptations. So after
Speaker 3: this they are treating, a lassitter comes out and he
Speaker 3: tells the story of this amazing whiskey from Japan that
Speaker 3: has survived bombings and earthquakes, and then they pour it
Speaker 3: for all of them, and uh, they put There's a
Speaker 3: detail about the table that you can just see as
Speaker 3: one of these like textural details that was was imagined
Speaker 3: early on that the outer rim of the table rotates around,
Speaker 3: so like doctor Zara pours these drinks, they just sort
Speaker 3: of like get rolled around the table to their recipient.
Speaker 2: I've also read the glasses they drink this whiskey from
Speaker 2: are supposedly the same glasses that we see in Blade Runner.
Speaker 3: Oh really, oh supposedly.
Speaker 2: I have not fact checked it, but it sounds appropriate.
Speaker 2: It sounds like the sort of detail that would be
Speaker 2: present in this film.
Speaker 3: Now, as the characters talk in these scenes, I thought
Speaker 3: that there was something different about the viewing compared to
Speaker 3: the two penes Cosmatos movies I've seen, which is that
Speaker 3: in this one there seem to be a kind of
Speaker 3: conscious attempt at anti realism in some of the acting
Speaker 3: and dialogue and characterization. Like this was not true of
Speaker 3: the two movies, but characters here sometimes speak like they
Speaker 3: are deliberately avoiding verisimilitude, if you know what I mean, Rob,
Speaker 3: there's a kind of like I found it enjoyable, but
Speaker 3: a kind of awkward, stiltedness and unnatural quality to the
Speaker 3: rhythm of some of the conversations that plays into the comedy.
Speaker 3: And this is not something I would say about either
Speaker 3: of Panos's movies, in which again, in those movies sometimes
Speaker 3: have an unreal quality, but it's more dream like, whereas
Speaker 3: this is more a kind of intentional B movie awkwardness.
Speaker 3: It seems like a unique choice here. I don't know
Speaker 3: what you think about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that seems to be part of
Speaker 2: the intention here, that, yeah, an intentional B movie awkwardness
Speaker 2: to at least some of the performances, And I you know,
Speaker 2: I think it might also you could also look at
Speaker 2: it from another direction too, and look at like this
Speaker 2: is ultimately a film about like people and their desires
Speaker 2: and the things that they are grasping for, questing after
Speaker 2: in life and two of the characters, really, the two
Speaker 2: that often feel the like the clunkiest are also the
Speaker 2: ones that are the most full of it, Target Landing,
Speaker 2: you know, they're Landon is just there to sort of
Speaker 2: like puff up his chest and take things out on Targ.
Speaker 2: Targ is there to sound brilliant and insightful certainly, you know,
Speaker 2: despite the fact that his whole identity is tied up
Speaker 2: in just a lie and just nonsense. And so those
Speaker 2: are the characters, Yeah, that stand out the most with
Speaker 2: this clunk equality.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, And it's interesting to see like how
Speaker 3: the characters behave in the scene, Like so as they're
Speaker 3: given you know, the drinks and the drugs and stuff.
Speaker 3: So it progresses from from this onto them smoking things
Speaker 3: and snorting things. And guy Landon's just like on board,
Speaker 3: he just wants it all, and it's interesting. Targ sort
Speaker 3: of tries to resist but then gives into it. Charlotte
Speaker 3: seems to not naturally have a very indulgent personality, but
Speaker 3: is also just curious in this situation. Whereas Roth is
Speaker 3: an interesting character because this is the Eric Andre character.
Speaker 3: He is trying to trying to resist the life of
Speaker 3: like he's trying to quit smoking. He's trying to resist
Speaker 3: the life of drugs and alcohol and all that that
Speaker 3: he is so accustomed to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he knows that that there's a line, and he
Speaker 2: crosses that line, he's not going to be able to
Speaker 2: control his consumption. But he has enough self control to
Speaker 2: sort of stay away from that line, or try to
Speaker 2: for most of the run time here.
Speaker 3: But also it's funny that throughout this there's this kind
Speaker 3: of puffery, people building themselves up, like Lasseter and Landon
Speaker 3: and these people trying to impress everyone else. Last, at
Speaker 3: one point he starts quoting proverbs to encourage everybody else
Speaker 3: to indulge. Like he says, every person has two lives,
Speaker 3: the person they were before and the person they were
Speaker 3: after they realized they only have one. I don't know
Speaker 3: if that's a real proverb, but.
Speaker 2: It sounds convincing coming from You're like, yeah, I guess
Speaker 2: I should have space cocaine. Because of course, the we
Speaker 2: learned that doctor Zaras like has this, you know, this,
Speaker 2: this kind of shady background is involved in essentially like
Speaker 2: mad blood science, and this this space cocaine that she's
Speaker 2: providing everyone with has like some it's like high grade
Speaker 2: and has some sort of like blue additive to it
Speaker 2: that is going to make everyone's experience perfect because ultimately,
Speaker 2: as we learn, Lassiter is here to yes, to pump
Speaker 2: everybody full of illicit substances, but also to encourage them
Speaker 2: and to get everybody synced up for a singular experience,
Speaker 2: the titular viewing of a particular object.
Speaker 3: And what is that viewing. Well, he gets them into
Speaker 3: the chamber to look at the obelisk. Now, I think
Speaker 3: there are a few rules of the chamber with the.
Speaker 2: Obelisk, or one rule, and that is there's no smoking
Speaker 2: in the obelisk chamber. We do learn this the hard way.
Speaker 2: But other than that, I think it's just whatever goes.
Speaker 2: You're allowed to touch the obelisk, apparently, and you're encouraged
Speaker 2: to look at it and to discuss your ideas concerning
Speaker 2: what it might be.
Speaker 3: Well, I like, how did I remember this correctly? That
Speaker 3: really there is no information on what the obelisk is
Speaker 3: or where it comes from? Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Lassitor tells us that he obtained it like at
Speaker 2: the ultimate cost and at great expense and so forth,
Speaker 2: that you know, but that's it. And when they ask him, like,
Speaker 2: what is it He's like, I have no idea. So
Speaker 2: it's a complete anomaly. There's no if. There's no discussion of,
Speaker 2: oh well this fell from the sky, or this was
Speaker 2: discovered you know, on the bottom of the ocean or
Speaker 2: in the deepest caverns of the Earth. No, here it is,
Speaker 2: I have obtained it. Take a look at it. You
Speaker 2: tell me what you think it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is zero information about it except here it is.
Speaker 3: I have it, and now you're looking at it.
Speaker 2: Tests that they've run have been inconclusive. You know, X
Speaker 2: rays tell them nothing. But for some reason they do
Speaker 2: have this idea that you should not smoke around it.
Speaker 3: That's just common sense. I mean, So, what is it.
Speaker 3: It's like a large black object with many different surfaces
Speaker 3: and indentations and projections. In a way, it looks almost
Speaker 3: like a bit of xenomorph biology.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's kind of a gieger S quality to it.
Speaker 2: But also it does look like some sort of strange rock.
Speaker 2: It looks like a space rock, and it's kind of
Speaker 2: described as such. And I think that's the if you
Speaker 2: had to guess, you might think, well, this fell from
Speaker 2: the sky. Clearly this is some sort of space object.
Speaker 2: And they start talking about it, and they have everyone's
Speaker 2: reaction to it is a little different, you know. Guy
Speaker 2: Landen is like, this is a rock. I'm done. I
Speaker 2: don't want to look at this thing where and I
Speaker 2: think most of the other characters, though, I begin to
Speaker 2: see that there is something special about this There is
Speaker 2: something that is that is sort of calling out to
Speaker 2: them from it.
Speaker 3: And then everything goes off the rails when eric Andre
Speaker 3: blows some cannabis smoke into it.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it kind of inhales the smoke and then yeah,
Speaker 2: things get really crazy really quickly. This is like the
Speaker 2: last twelve minutes of the picture. Here. It starts, there's
Speaker 2: sts clearly there's a psychic effect, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: eric Andre's character is like, I think I broke your rock, dude.
Speaker 2: And it starts crumbling, cracking open, and a strange substance
Speaker 2: is in the middle, some a creature, a substance, some
Speaker 2: sort of orange gelatinous form, and at this point it
Speaker 2: reminds one a lot of The Blob, especially the early
Speaker 2: scenes in both the original Blob and the remake, where
Speaker 2: this hard rocky substance cracks open and a Blob creature emerges,
Speaker 2: only instead of it being kind of like red, and
Speaker 2: this one is bright orange.
Speaker 3: It is a giant orange wax clam that then from
Speaker 3: which project a couple of the main features of it.
Speaker 3: These things that are like horns but sometimes don't appear
Speaker 3: to be rigid like. They morph between being flexible arms
Speaker 3: like the arms of an octopus, and then being like
Speaker 3: the rigid corkscrew horns of a mountain goat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like the horns of a ram or something. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It the monster in its varied forms. It definitely spoke
Speaker 2: to me in terms of the blob, the arc of
Speaker 2: the Covenant, the horns of Golgadarath, tentacles, slug antennae, and
Speaker 2: and yeah, some other elements as well, and at the
Speaker 2: whole time that the whole time though, and a lot
Speaker 2: of this is also due to you know, the sound design,
Speaker 2: the lighting, everything else, but the creature designed too. It
Speaker 2: feels completely under otherworldly with all without seeming too much
Speaker 2: like anything I've seen in other films. As we've discussed before,
Speaker 2: with modern monster movies, it can be kind of a sameness,
Speaker 2: kind of a built by committee quality to it, and
Speaker 2: this creature or whatever it is feels wholly different. And yeah,
Speaker 2: there's just a strong, like WTF feel for this entire encounter.
Speaker 3: Oh, but there's also so much melting to happen here.
Speaker 3: It's a melt to remember.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're scanning. Everybody gets scanned. Everyone in the
Speaker 2: room is scanned, and then some people start melting. One
Speaker 2: person's head explodes, and really, ultimately everyone is going to
Speaker 2: either melt, explode, be absorbed by orange slime, or run
Speaker 2: screaming for their lives.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and obviously we're deep into spoiler territory here. But
Speaker 3: in the end, it is Lasseter who is absorbed by
Speaker 3: the creature. So the creature like sort of slithers, it
Speaker 3: like wounds him psychically, and he collapses, is on the floor,
Speaker 3: And this is after it has melted Landing and targ
Speaker 3: and doctor Zara I think, And yeah, they all get
Speaker 3: melted by it or they explode, and then it goes
Speaker 3: up to Lasseter and it takes him within the mass
Speaker 3: of the wax and then he sort of I guess,
Speaker 3: becomes the scaffold or the skeleton for this creature to
Speaker 3: become vaguely humanoid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, becomes this. And this is where we get the
Speaker 2: creature suit, because we have a tall bipedal creature with
Speaker 2: kind of a zombifide face, and the two tentacles remain
Speaker 2: but on the shoulders, continuing to quest around as if
Speaker 2: continuing to sense and take in data.
Speaker 3: Then Charlotte and Roth they both escape. They make it out,
Speaker 3: though Roth stops to try to do more drugs on
Speaker 3: the way out, but they make it out. Oh, Hector
Speaker 3: comes in. He gets the gold Ak forty seven and
Speaker 3: tries to shoot the monster, but he is like zaz
Speaker 3: apped electrically and explodes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the creature clearly has just vast reservoirs of power.
Speaker 3: So we see our two survivors like get into an
Speaker 3: eighties or seventies sports car and then drive away and
Speaker 3: drive away with such acceleration that eric Andre's like face
Speaker 3: is rippling like in a wind tunnel. And then they
Speaker 3: they make it out. But then we see the creature
Speaker 3: with I guess Lassiter inside it. I don't know if
Speaker 3: Lassiter is thought to in some way still be alive
Speaker 3: and a part of this creature, or if it's just
Speaker 3: sort of like used him, like the thing does maybe
Speaker 3: as a as a format, as like a template. But
Speaker 3: now it walks out of the mansion and then we
Speaker 3: see it like walk into a sewer and then emerge
Speaker 3: out the other end of the sewer line walking into
Speaker 3: a big a big like aqueduct, a big what do
Speaker 3: you call it? Like the canals in LA, big concrete canal,
Speaker 3: drainage canal, and it just walks out into there and
Speaker 3: is now among.
Speaker 2: The Yeah, this kind of again, this kind of like
Speaker 2: concrete dismal version of LA. And immediately we begin to
Speaker 2: see lights start to go out in the city as
Speaker 2: if like it's immense energy and it's a like electrical
Speaker 2: disturbance is already knocking out power like just by like
Speaker 2: it doesn't It's hard to figure out what the creature
Speaker 2: thinks or wants to get out of this. Like, clearly
Speaker 2: it's going to destroy the world, there's no question about that.
Speaker 2: The question is does it want to destroy the world
Speaker 2: or is it just there to record the world, to
Speaker 2: sense the world and in doing so will inevitably destroy everything.
Speaker 3: Is there a reason for the differential fates of the characters,
Speaker 3: Like why do Landen, Zara, Lassiter and Rheinhardt melt or
Speaker 3: get absorbed or whatever? And why do Roth and z escape?
Speaker 3: Is it based on something about them individually? Does that
Speaker 3: mean something do those two in a sense refuse to
Speaker 3: look at the arc like Indian Marion. I couldn't really
Speaker 3: tell if there was anything like that, but I wonder
Speaker 3: if somebody out there has an interpretation of that sort.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to hear what folks think about this.
Speaker 2: The best I could come up with. And I also
Speaker 2: have to realize that there may be no reason to it.
Speaker 2: It may just have to do with likability of characters
Speaker 2: and or coolness of characters, like obviously Laster has to
Speaker 2: become the monster that sort of thing. But I was
Speaker 2: also thinking it might ultimately have to come down to
Speaker 2: desire and grasping. So the creature is an explorer, it's
Speaker 2: questing with its feelers. And so my read is that
Speaker 2: Land and Reinhart and Zara they're found wanting. There's something
Speaker 2: inauthentic about their relationship with the world and their desires
Speaker 2: in the world. Roth and Charlotte they desire too much,
Speaker 2: or perhaps their desires are very specific and therefore they're
Speaker 2: able to get away. But Lassiter, he's in the Goldilocks
Speaker 2: zone for some reason, perhaps because he has just overarching
Speaker 2: general interest in everything. So he's the perfect fit for
Speaker 2: something that has come to like experience slash record slash
Speaker 2: destroy the entire.
Speaker 3: World perfect it is canon now.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's the viewing and the lovely thing about
Speaker 2: the viewing, it's the whole picture is like going into
Speaker 2: the the the Obelisk Chamber. There's no smoking, and it's
Speaker 2: about like, what do you take out of it? What's
Speaker 2: your interpretation of what transpires? An interpretation is not entirely necessary,
Speaker 2: but you know, because it's ultimately a wild, weird ride
Speaker 2: that I enjoyed quite a bit. But yeah, it also
Speaker 2: raises questions and you might well wonder, well what comes next?
Speaker 2: And I like a nice open ended, strange, like weird
Speaker 2: ending like this where yeah, our main likable characters have escaped,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't seem like escape is in store for
Speaker 2: the world itself.
Speaker 3: Right, there's no smoking in the Obelisk Chamber, which is
Speaker 3: now the entire universe.
Speaker 2: Maybe in the sequel, he's just that the creatures going
Speaker 2: out to find more dope smoke. That's that's the whole plot.
Speaker 2: I'd be down for that.
Speaker 3: Right, all right, that's all I got on the viewing.
Speaker 2: All Right, Well, we're gonna go ahead and close it
Speaker 2: out here, but we'll remind you that Weird House Cinema
Speaker 2: occurs every Friday in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind
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Speaker 2: It's a lot of fun.
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