WEBVTT - 9 Sneaky Ways to Send a Message

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Part Time Genius, a production of Kaleidoscope

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<v Speaker 1>and iHeartRadio. Guess what give? What's that Mango? So, as

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I love spy stuff. I love detective stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>And as a kid, I was very into creating secret

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<v Speaker 1>codes and ridiculous ways to communicate to my friends and

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<v Speaker 1>stuff like that, like what exactly what are we talking about?

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<v Speaker 1>It was like secret knocks to get into a clubhouse,

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<v Speaker 1>or passwords or phrases sometimes code words for other people.

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<v Speaker 1>My friend Rajish made up this nonsensical language that was

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<v Speaker 1>honestly just goofy, and so it was funny phrases for

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<v Speaker 1>like passing the salt or pepper at the table and

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<v Speaker 1>things that would make our parents confused. And then I

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<v Speaker 1>had a friend later, this is more like sixth grade,

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<v Speaker 1>we came up with a way of writing and passing

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<v Speaker 1>notes that was really easy to write super quickly, but

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<v Speaker 1>really hard to decipher if a teacher or like another

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<v Speaker 1>kid found it. And so I was into that type

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff. It was just like fun to do. And

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<v Speaker 1>this week I was reading about one of the earliest

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<v Speaker 1>secret languages, and honestly, it might be the weirdest communication

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<v Speaker 1>method I've ever heard of, and not one I would

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<v Speaker 1>have ever schemed up. It is scalp tattoos sounds painful,

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<v Speaker 1>What is this? It definitely was, But sometimes you have

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<v Speaker 1>to deliver a message. So this goes back to the

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<v Speaker 1>fifth century VCE, when Isteos, the ruler of Malatas in

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<v Speaker 1>Anchi in Greece, needed to get a very sensitive message

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<v Speaker 1>to his buddy Aristogoros, and the message was maybe it's

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<v Speaker 1>time to revolt against the Persians. Right, he can't exactly

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<v Speaker 1>just send a courier with a scroll, because you know

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<v Speaker 1>there are Persians everywhere. So here's what he does. He

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<v Speaker 1>shaves the head of his most trusted servant, tattoos the

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<v Speaker 1>message right onto the scalp, and then waits and weeks later,

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<v Speaker 1>once the hair GRoWES back, the servant is sent off

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<v Speaker 1>to Malatos, and when he arrives, Arista Goas shaves the

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<v Speaker 1>poor guy's head again and boom, the revolt is on.

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<v Speaker 1>Is both ingenious and horrified totally, but I guess it

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<v Speaker 1>worked because the Germans apparently used it again in World

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<v Speaker 1>War Two, which is insane. Anyway. I like it because

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<v Speaker 1>it's like the ultimate don't shoot the messenger, and mainly

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<v Speaker 1>because you have to shave him first. But that is

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<v Speaker 1>the first of nine facts we've got today about secret languages,

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<v Speaker 1>So let's dive in. Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>Part Time Genius. I'm Munga Shiti there and Will is

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<v Speaker 1>out today, but I'm here with writer extraordinary Gabe Lucier

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<v Speaker 1>on the line.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, Gab, how's it going pretty good? How are you

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<v Speaker 2>doing well?

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<v Speaker 1>And of course, over in the corner, that's our wonderful

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<v Speaker 1>friend and producer Dylan Fagan, who is holding up two

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<v Speaker 1>giant que cards with random pictures of a banana, a biscuit. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>he's adding a few three squirrels on another one, which

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<v Speaker 1>I guess is a secret language of his own.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I honestly can't believe he said that on air.

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<v Speaker 2>That's pretty scandalous. I mean he added a tomato card.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh uh Okay, Yeah, I see what he's saying now.

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<v Speaker 2>That's actually really sweet, So thank you, Dylan.

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<v Speaker 1>I take it back. Yeah, Dylan's a sweetheart. Okay, enough

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<v Speaker 1>of that game. I mentioned I was into codes and

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<v Speaker 1>secret languages. Also at home, we spoke like this obscure

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<v Speaker 1>Indian dialect, so I practically had a secret language with

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<v Speaker 1>my parents. Anyway, But do you have any secret language experience? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>as a kid, I actually I used to talk out

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<v Speaker 1>of the side of my mouth, and so pretty much

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<v Speaker 1>only my family could understand what I was saying. They

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<v Speaker 1>kind of had to interpret it. So that was a

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<v Speaker 1>kind of secret language. I think it was more of

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<v Speaker 1>a nervous habit really, But which side? Let me see

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<v Speaker 1>if I can get back into the Yeah, it was

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<v Speaker 1>the right side. Also, my brother and I we tried

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<v Speaker 1>to teach ourselves pig Latin at one point, but we

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<v Speaker 1>could never really understand what the other word's saying, so

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't work out. I love it, so gave what

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<v Speaker 1>is your first fact today? All right?

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<v Speaker 2>So I am reasonably certain that neither of us have

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<v Speaker 2>scalp tattoos. I can't really tell, I guess until one

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<v Speaker 2>of us gets lice. But a little call back there.

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<v Speaker 2>But one ancient form of secret messaging that I bet

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<v Speaker 2>we've all tried before is writing with invisible ink. So

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<v Speaker 2>most of us discover this as kids writing with lemon

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<v Speaker 2>juice or vinegar and then holding the paper up to

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<v Speaker 2>a light bulb to make the letters appear. But when

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<v Speaker 2>the technique was developed in ancient Greece and Rome. It

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't a game. It was used for military and political espionage.

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<v Speaker 2>And the way it works is the acid weakens paper

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<v Speaker 2>fibers and reduces their burn temperature, so when you apply

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<v Speaker 2>heat to those areas, they turn brown faster than the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of the paper. You can also write with a

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<v Speaker 2>base ink like baking soda, and trigger a similar color

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<v Speaker 2>change by applying an acid.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's funny because on one hand it is

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<v Speaker 1>seriously clever, right, but it also seems like it would

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<v Speaker 1>only work the first few times, Like, once someone knows

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<v Speaker 1>the trick, it's much easier to check for a hidden messages,

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<v Speaker 1>I'd imagine.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, yeah, And by the time the American Revolution

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<v Speaker 2>rolled around, both sides were using invisible ink, and both

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<v Speaker 2>sides knew it. It became standard practice, you know, to

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<v Speaker 2>test intercepted messages with heat and acid, which kind of

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<v Speaker 2>made the whole thing pointless. Luckily, though, an amateur chemist

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<v Speaker 2>named James J was on the case. He developed a

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<v Speaker 2>formula for a new kind of ink, one that could

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<v Speaker 2>only be made visible by a specific corresponding chemical or reagent.

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<v Speaker 2>So no matter how much heat the British applied, the

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<v Speaker 2>invisible message would stay invisible. Once this ink was ready

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<v Speaker 2>to go, James teamed up with his more famous younger brother,

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<v Speaker 2>John Jay. Perhaps you've heard of it. Oh yeah, He

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<v Speaker 2>helped get the ink into George Washington's hands. So Washington

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<v Speaker 2>distributed it to spies in British occupied New York during

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<v Speaker 2>the war, and they used it to write messages on

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<v Speaker 2>blank pages of books. And despite being searched on multiple occasions,

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<v Speaker 2>none of this secret writing was ever discovered by the British.

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<v Speaker 1>That is incredible, And that's also incredible that John Jay

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<v Speaker 1>had a connection to this. I didn't even know you

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<v Speaker 1>had a brother, So what was in this secret formula?

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<v Speaker 2>Jay never revealed what was in the ink because writing

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<v Speaker 2>down the recipe would have been too dangerous. Fortunately, though,

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<v Speaker 2>some of the letters written in his invisible ink survived

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<v Speaker 2>the war, and in the nineteen thirties, a doctor named

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<v Speaker 2>Lodovic Bendixen studied those samples to determine the ink's composition.

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<v Speaker 2>Turns out it was made from the tannic acid of

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<v Speaker 2>gall nuts, which aren't nuts at all.

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<v Speaker 1>See when a wasp.

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<v Speaker 2>Blazed its eggs on the branches of an oak tree,

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<v Speaker 2>the tree defends itself by entombing the eggs inside a

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<v Speaker 2>big woody growth. And that's what a goal nut is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a wooden cocoon full of dead wasp eggs. That

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<v Speaker 2>is gross. I love it. I also love that like

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<v Speaker 2>it took to the nineteen thirties for people to figure

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<v Speaker 2>out what this was. You know, it's pretty amazing. But

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<v Speaker 2>what was it about the reagent that revealed ink?

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<v Speaker 1>Like? Do we ever find out what that was? And

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<v Speaker 1>was it as disgusting as a call nut? Because if so,

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<v Speaker 1>you can you can just not tell us. We did

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<v Speaker 1>find out, but don't worry. It was just an iron

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<v Speaker 1>supplement called ferris sulfate, which is often used to lower

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<v Speaker 1>the pH level and soil. It was a pretty obscure

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<v Speaker 1>pair of chemicals to put together. But that's exactly why

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<v Speaker 1>the British didn't figure it out.

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<v Speaker 2>Way to go, James, j right, Seriously, he's the lesser

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<v Speaker 2>j But I don't know we could make the case for.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway. What do you got next, Mago? Well, I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 1>take it to the Victorian area. And if you were

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<v Speaker 1>a fancy lady back then, you were actually fancy, by

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<v Speaker 1>which I mean, of course you didn't go anywhere without

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<v Speaker 1>an elaborate handheld fan, typically made of silk or fine parchment.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, you'd have different fans for different occasions, and

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<v Speaker 1>the one you took to church might have a Bible

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<v Speaker 1>scene painted on it, while the one you use for

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<v Speaker 1>parties would have a festive image of people dancing. Right. But,

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<v Speaker 1>according to a famous French fan maker, women also used

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<v Speaker 1>fans to send secret messages to their gentlemen admirers. For example,

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<v Speaker 1>if a woman held a fan in front of her

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<v Speaker 1>face with her right hand, that meant follow me. Twirling

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<v Speaker 1>the fan in her left hand meant we're being watched.

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<v Speaker 1>And perhaps my favorite, opening the fan and snapping it

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<v Speaker 1>shut meant you.

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<v Speaker 2>Are cruel, amazing. But how did the gentleman admirers understand

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<v Speaker 2>all this? Was there some kind of codebook you had

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<v Speaker 2>to buy. Yeah, so that's the thing that famous fan

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<v Speaker 2>maker I mentioned. His name was Jules de vell Roy

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<v Speaker 2>and he ran the family fan business with locations in

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<v Speaker 2>London and Paris. Now, during the French Revolution, the French

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<v Speaker 2>fan maker's guild had shut down and demand for fans

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<v Speaker 2>had dropped because you know, they were really the symbol

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<v Speaker 2>of the aristocracy. So many decades later, and this is

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<v Speaker 2>In the eighteen fifties, Jewels decides to make fans a

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<v Speaker 2>must have item again, and he publishes a pamphlet titled

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<v Speaker 2>The Language of the Fan, with a list of over

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<v Speaker 2>two dozen gestures and romantic meanings. And this is all

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<v Speaker 2>just a marketing play, but you got to give them credit.

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<v Speaker 2>The stunt worked sales took off, and devell Roy actually

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<v Speaker 2>became Queen Victoria's go to fan guy. Huh, So it

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<v Speaker 2>was all a hoax then, like the fancy Ladies weren't

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<v Speaker 2>sending secret messages via fan.

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<v Speaker 1>So first of all, let's call it marketing. Second, devell

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<v Speaker 1>Roy didn't invent that idea out of thin air. In

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<v Speaker 1>the seventeen hundreds, there were party games that involved fans

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<v Speaker 1>printed with like trivia questions on one side and answers

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<v Speaker 1>on the other. There were also some fans with the

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<v Speaker 1>letters of the alphabet in the fold, so you could

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<v Speaker 1>use them to spell out messages, and historians believe fans

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<v Speaker 1>may have been used in pre revolutionary France to display

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<v Speaker 1>political slogans. But none of this rose to the level

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<v Speaker 1>of an actual widespread messaging system that everyone was using. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>That part was all made up. On the other hand,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't really need a codebook to figure out what

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<v Speaker 1>it means. If someone flutters they're faning giggles, or if

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<v Speaker 1>they suddenly point their fan towards the door where their

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<v Speaker 1>angry father is running in through it, I think you

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much get the gist there. Yeah, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>So, as you know, I moved to Tennessee two years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>and one of the most unexpected pleasures about that has

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<v Speaker 2>been acquainting myself with the South's ubiquitous breakfast chain, the

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<v Speaker 2>waffle House. Are you familiar, of.

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<v Speaker 1>Course, I mean I went to school in North Carolina.

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<v Speaker 1>We lived in Atlanta for a bit. I took photos

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<v Speaker 1>of Ruby's first baby's first waffle house a milestone. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a traditional Southern milestones.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, you really can't miss them, I guess if

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<v Speaker 2>you drive through the South or the Midwest. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the food is standard diner. Fair waffles are obviously a

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<v Speaker 2>big draw, as are the hash browns, which you can

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<v Speaker 2>order at least eight different ways. But what really won

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<v Speaker 2>me over is the intensely complicated plate marking system that

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<v Speaker 2>the staff uses to keep track of orders. So, unlike

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<v Speaker 2>most restaurants, waffle House doesn't use a ticket system to

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<v Speaker 2>relay orders to the kitchen. Instead, servers call them out verbally,

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<v Speaker 2>and cooks immediately start marking plates with condiment packets and

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<v Speaker 2>little scraps of ingredients so they won't forget the specifics.

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<v Speaker 2>For example, if a customer wants a plane waffle, the

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<v Speaker 2>cook puts one packet of butter on the plate right

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<v Speaker 2>side up. For two waffles, they stack two packs of butter,

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<v Speaker 2>and for a pecan waffle, they flip the butter upside down.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd heard tell of like a system, but I haven't

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<v Speaker 1>actually like watched for it. I feel like I need

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<v Speaker 1>to look the next time there. But you know, it

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<v Speaker 1>sounds easy enough, I guess if you figure it out.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Yeah, I started with waffles because they're the simplest

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<v Speaker 2>the things spiral pretty.

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<v Speaker 1>Fast with the other items.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like, to signify a standard order of two eggs,

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<v Speaker 2>you put a right side up jelly packet on a plate.

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<v Speaker 2>But if a customer wants just one egg, then you've

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<v Speaker 2>got to put a ketchup packet underneath the jelly obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>And if they want three eggs, you put a mustard

0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.440
<v Speaker 2>packet underneath instead. Yeah, and it gets weirder from there. Actually,

0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.520
<v Speaker 2>the position and orientation of each item on the plate

0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.000
<v Speaker 2>communicates how the order should be prepared. So a jelly

0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.760
<v Speaker 2>packet at the bottom center of the plate means two

0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.040
<v Speaker 2>eggs scrambled, but for sunny side up the jelly goes

0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.160
<v Speaker 2>at the top center, and for regular fried eggs, the

0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 2>jelly goes in the middle of the plate, on the

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.439
<v Speaker 2>left hand side for over easy, middle for over medium,

0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>and right for over heart.

0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't know whether I'm dizzy from trying to like

0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.400
<v Speaker 1>keep up with it or hungry from hearing about all

0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.040
<v Speaker 1>these breakfast orders. But what if someone just wants like

0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.160
<v Speaker 1>toast with their eggs? Okay, So in.

0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.640
<v Speaker 2>That case, the cook would use a platter instead of

0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.360
<v Speaker 2>a plate, and the jelly packet pulls double duty by

0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.400
<v Speaker 2>indicating both the eggs and the toast. The jelly is

0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 2>placed right side up for white toast, upside down for wheat,

0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 2>and for raisin toast, just swap out the jelly for

0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:09.680
<v Speaker 2>a packet of apple butter. As for those famous hash browns,

0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.480
<v Speaker 2>they're indicated simply by sprinkling a few potato shreds at

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.360
<v Speaker 2>the top of the plate. And once you get into

0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.720
<v Speaker 2>omelets and breakfast sandwiches, things get complicated again, but I'll

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.480
<v Speaker 2>let you discover those for yourself. There's actually a twenty

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.120
<v Speaker 2>minute training video online that breaks down all the possible

0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.880
<v Speaker 2>permutations of the marker system, which every waffle House cook

0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:29.560
<v Speaker 2>has to learn.

0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, I am weirdly fascinating enough that I feel

0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.360
<v Speaker 1>like I would go watch that twenty minute video but

0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.640
<v Speaker 1>also recommend it. It doesn't it feel well, It feels

0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.880
<v Speaker 1>one like it should be playing in the background of parties.

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.160
<v Speaker 1>But yes, I haven't made a few people watch it.

0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.880
<v Speaker 1>But also like, wouldn't if you just so much easier

0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.120
<v Speaker 1>to write down the orders like every other restaurant.

0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah, sure, but I do kind of admire

0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.440
<v Speaker 2>how needlessly elaborate it is. It's a very Rube Goldberg

0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.079
<v Speaker 2>approach to to ordering breakfast.

0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I guess you know, waffle House already has

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:05.880
<v Speaker 1>endeared itself to people, and it makes it a little

0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.360
<v Speaker 1>more special. Okay, so we have to take a quick break,

0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.480
<v Speaker 1>but when we get back, we have four more weird

0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.440
<v Speaker 1>messaging techniques that everyone should maybe not learn, but hear

0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:33.640
<v Speaker 1>about it. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to part time Genius.

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.800
<v Speaker 1>We're talking about nine of the strangest, most elaborate ways

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.600
<v Speaker 1>of sending messages. But if you want to send us

0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.000
<v Speaker 1>a message, we have made it super easy. Just email

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 1>us at high Geniuses at gmail dot com. That's Hi, Geniuses,

0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.400
<v Speaker 1>or call our hotline at three oh two four oh

0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.720
<v Speaker 1>five five nine two five. You can ask us a question,

0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.480
<v Speaker 1>share an idea for a future episode, tell us what

0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.480
<v Speaker 1>you think of the show, tell us what you think

0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.200
<v Speaker 1>of waffle house. Whatever we want to hear from you.

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 1>So please get in touch. Okay, So, Gabe, here's one

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.200
<v Speaker 1>I like, mostly because of the name. Have you ever

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:13.200
<v Speaker 1>heard of Wigwag? I don't think I've had the pleasure. No, Well,

0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.040
<v Speaker 1>get excited. Wigwag goes back to the eighteen fifties and

0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.640
<v Speaker 1>it was invented by an Army surgeon. His name was

0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Albert J. Meyer. Meyer had actually done his doctoral thesis

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.520
<v Speaker 1>on a language for the hearing impaired. He'd been a

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.840
<v Speaker 1>telegraph operator in med school and later while stationed in Texas,

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 1>he thought, what if you could take the idea of

0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.600
<v Speaker 1>telegraph signals and do it visually, kind of like smoke signals.

0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 1>And so his solution was get one big flag and

0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 1>instead of semaphore, which uses two flags, wigwag just decided

0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:47.200
<v Speaker 1>to use one right, so you wag it left for

0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 1>one symbol, right for another, and you'd use repeating motions

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:54.040
<v Speaker 1>to make letters. So I was a wag left, T

0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.400
<v Speaker 1>was a wag right, and letter V was one left,

0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.760
<v Speaker 1>followed by three rights, which from a distance to people

0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.440
<v Speaker 1>who didn't speak, I'm sure either looked like you were

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.000
<v Speaker 1>trying to shoe bees or the world's saddest interpretive dance.

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I love that this is just as complicated as the

0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.880
<v Speaker 2>waffle house marker system. But was there just like one

0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 2>colored flag that they were using for this, or could

0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 2>you use any flag you had handy?

0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's actually a good question. The flags were square,

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.080
<v Speaker 1>and they could be red, white, or black, and basically

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 1>it was for whatever stood out against the background you

0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.640
<v Speaker 1>were against right. And this is in the eighteen fifties

0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.360
<v Speaker 1>into the eighteen sixties. So once the Union Army got

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.760
<v Speaker 1>serious about it, they actually built towers and used church

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 1>steeples so the messages could be seen for miles. And

0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.040
<v Speaker 1>there's a famous story where at Gettysburg, when the actual

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Signal Corps officer retreats, a Union soldier famously grabs a

0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.040
<v Speaker 1>bed sheet and just keeps waving. Of course, there was

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.640
<v Speaker 1>a hitch here because you know, both sides had trained

0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.520
<v Speaker 1>together before the war, so the Confederates actually knew the code,

0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 1>so the Union started using cipher dis to scramble their messages. Anyway,

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.359
<v Speaker 1>here's my favorite part. So after the war, Meyer's successor

0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.480
<v Speaker 1>publishes the entire code in a book and then he

0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:11.120
<v Speaker 1>gets fired for basically leaking state secrets. That is.

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.879
<v Speaker 2>It also just dawned on me that wigwag is probably

0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:14.959
<v Speaker 2>short for wiggle waggles.

0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, that's horrible.

0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.040
<v Speaker 2>So how long did wigwag last?

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.680
<v Speaker 1>It was around for a while, but by World War One,

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:24.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, standing in a field waving a big red

0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.119
<v Speaker 1>flag was basically making yourself a target. So the system

0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.520
<v Speaker 1>was retired in favor of Morse code. Okay, mango, there's

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.640
<v Speaker 1>a piece of paper on the table in front of you.

0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.040
<v Speaker 1>Don't worry about how it got there. Just take a

0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:37.280
<v Speaker 1>look at it and tell.

0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:37.879
<v Speaker 2>Me what you see.

0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.439
<v Speaker 1>Okay, got it. It's a normal sentence, typed up. It

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:46.640
<v Speaker 1>says we should do more episodes about peanuts. I've heard

0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:48.440
<v Speaker 1>this from you before. I know you love the peanuts.

0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>I love the peanuts, but Mary might kill us.

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, I still think you guys are wrong

0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.359
<v Speaker 2>about this, but I don't mean the words on the page.

0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.080
<v Speaker 1>Look closer, after.

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.679
<v Speaker 2>The words, what do you see, just the punctuation like

0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:06.119
<v Speaker 2>the period no memi zens bingo. Yes, except that's not

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.320
<v Speaker 2>a period at all, It's a micro dot. So this

0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.120
<v Speaker 2>is an incredible miniature messaging system that has its roots

0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:16.560
<v Speaker 2>in the Franco Prussian War of eighteen seventy. A Parisian

0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:21.280
<v Speaker 2>photographer named Renee de Grann invented microfilm, which allowed French

0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 2>troops to shrink messages onto tiny bits of film that

0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 2>could be flown out of occupied Paris by carrier pigeons.

0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.760
<v Speaker 2>So at the nineteen twenty five International Congress on Photography,

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.879
<v Speaker 2>an inventor named Emmanuel Goldberg took this idea further. He

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.240
<v Speaker 2>shrank a page of text to an area of about

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.840
<v Speaker 2>zero point zero one square millimeters. Wow, and at that

0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.480
<v Speaker 2>size you could print the entire Bible fifty times in

0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:49.480
<v Speaker 2>a single squirt inch. That is insane, I know. And

0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.480
<v Speaker 2>so Goldberg called his invention Mikrotz, which became known as

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 2>micro dots, and during World War Two and the Cold War,

0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.840
<v Speaker 2>micro dots played a huge role in secret communication spies

0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.800
<v Speaker 2>shrank thousands of documents and hid them in eyeglass frames, dolls,

0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.159
<v Speaker 2>book bindings, jewelry, even under their fingernails. And of course,

0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.760
<v Speaker 2>because the average micro dot was about the size of

0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.919
<v Speaker 2>a period, they'd sometimes adhere the dots to books and

0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.960
<v Speaker 2>newspapers where they just looked like, you know, part of

0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.000
<v Speaker 2>the printed page. And what's really impressive to me is

0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.320
<v Speaker 2>that they were doing all of this before computers. Oh yeah,

0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.120
<v Speaker 2>that's that's really fascinating. I mean, you think about that

0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.479
<v Speaker 2>as something that's so easy to do with computers, but

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.520
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't considered that this is like an elaborate old process.

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:34.640
<v Speaker 1>It's so much more work.

0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it could all be done with photography equipment today.

0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.640
<v Speaker 2>There were different techniques, some more sophisticated than others, and

0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.840
<v Speaker 2>along the way people did invent special cameras to generate

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.640
<v Speaker 2>micro dots. But even with a regular camera you could

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 2>do it. Basically, you'd photograph a document so it filled

0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.040
<v Speaker 2>a frame of film, develop that, then mount the negative

0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.680
<v Speaker 2>on black cardboard with a whole cutout so you could

0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.359
<v Speaker 2>light it from behind. That way the text on the

0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.719
<v Speaker 2>negative was visible. And finally you take a close up

0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.080
<v Speaker 2>photo of the negative, creating an image less than a

0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.159
<v Speaker 2>millimeter long, and in order to see what was on

0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:10.199
<v Speaker 2>the image, you just needed a microscope.

0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.359
<v Speaker 1>That is so cool. But right now, more than anything,

0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:15.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious what is in the micro dot that you made.

0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 2>It's a script for an episode about the greatest peanut

0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 2>strips in history. You know, it just incaded.

0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.920
<v Speaker 1>So I know, I told you about the secret language

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.600
<v Speaker 1>of fans and the marketing trick behind their sales, which

0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.480
<v Speaker 1>I love. But because I'm a little obsessed with how

0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.359
<v Speaker 1>repressed people were in the Victorian era, I've actually got

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.159
<v Speaker 1>another one from those times. Now. As we've alluded to,

0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.440
<v Speaker 1>social etiquette at the time was insanely strict. You basically

0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.920
<v Speaker 1>couldn't say I like you without you know, fainting into

0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.040
<v Speaker 1>a lace handkerchief, right. It was too much emotion, and

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 1>so they had their fans. But people also invented another workaround,

0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.359
<v Speaker 1>and that was floriography, aka the language of flowers, and

0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:58.280
<v Speaker 1>basically it let you send text messages with bouquets. Now,

0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.000
<v Speaker 1>men were particularly blunt about this. If they handed someone

0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.720
<v Speaker 1>a nosegay, which was a little mini bouquet, they were

0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:05.840
<v Speaker 1>basically trying to slid to your dms right, And so

0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.800
<v Speaker 1>there's the obvious. There's a red rose, which means I'm

0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.879
<v Speaker 1>in love with you, a yellow carnation which means I

0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:16.399
<v Speaker 1>disdain you, and buttercups, which means you're childish. So a

0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.920
<v Speaker 1>little negging perhaps there, but it gets more elaborate. Women

0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.159
<v Speaker 1>in high society would wear flowers in their hair, are

0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:26.320
<v Speaker 1>tucked into their gowns as accessories, but these were more coded.

0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.320
<v Speaker 1>A sweet pea meant thank you. If you pair it

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.640
<v Speaker 1>with zinias, suddenly you've opped it to thank you, dear

0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.520
<v Speaker 1>friend forever. If you add white lily's to the mix,

0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.880
<v Speaker 1>now you're saying thank you, dear friend forever. Also, I'm

0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.280
<v Speaker 1>pure and innocent, but not in a weird way.

0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.120
<v Speaker 2>That's a complicated sentence, especially to send through flowers.

0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.320
<v Speaker 1>I know. It feels like when Ruby was a kid

0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.040
<v Speaker 1>and would send out emojis to friends from my phone

0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.280
<v Speaker 1>and would just be a string of nonsense and people

0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.440
<v Speaker 1>would be trying to decode it, like what does twenty horses,

0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.520
<v Speaker 1>a few winks, arrows, gymnastics and an apple mean right?

0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Like total sense. But luckily for Victorians there was, like

0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.600
<v Speaker 1>the fans, a guidebook, the whole phenomena had started with

0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.639
<v Speaker 1>Charlotte de la Tour's eighteen nineteen book Li Language def Fleur,

0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:14.440
<v Speaker 1>which became a decoder ring basically for floral messages, and

0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.080
<v Speaker 1>the idea caught fire because at the time, when women

0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.040
<v Speaker 1>especially weren't encouraged to speak their minds, flowers became a

0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:22.600
<v Speaker 1>sly way of pushing back. Right. You could gossip, you

0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.480
<v Speaker 1>could flirt, you could dump someone, all while looking like

0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.680
<v Speaker 1>you were just accessorizing and playing your role. Men actually

0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:31.120
<v Speaker 1>found this useful as well, like there are cases where

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:34.040
<v Speaker 1>men would sneak more emotion into things, like if you

0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:36.879
<v Speaker 1>look at the wreaths that noble men and kings placed

0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.800
<v Speaker 1>on their mother's graves, historians have actually realized that there

0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.720
<v Speaker 1>are actually more layers of emotion and feeling woven into

0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:44.520
<v Speaker 1>the symbols when you look at the flowers and the

0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:47.439
<v Speaker 1>specific flowers that were pulled in. In one case, I know,

0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:49.760
<v Speaker 1>there was one king who they didn't think had a

0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:52.159
<v Speaker 1>very deep relationship with the mother, and they realized just

0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:55.400
<v Speaker 1>how much respect through the wreath, which is incredible. Yeah,

0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:59.560
<v Speaker 1>that's lovely. Anyway, the system was not perfect like emojis today.

0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:02.600
<v Speaker 1>Content that mattered a pink flower in Thailand could be trust.

0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.959
<v Speaker 1>In Japan, the same flower might mean health, and in Victoria.

0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 1>In London it might mean I'm into you, but chastely,

0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.880
<v Speaker 1>which is you know, confusing, but also the Victorian way.

0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:13.960
<v Speaker 2>I actually think, you know, we can bring this back.

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:18.200
<v Speaker 2>It's cool. But all right, this next one is something

0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:21.160
<v Speaker 2>that should probably stay forgotten. It is one of the

0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:25.359
<v Speaker 2>weirdest footnotes in the history of telecommunications, a little something

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:27.639
<v Speaker 2>called the psychic snail telegraph.

0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I feel like you're making this up, but I'm very

0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.200
<v Speaker 1>excited to hear more. Well, you know, sometimes the truth

0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:38.480
<v Speaker 1>really is stranger than fiction, and this is one of

0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>those cases. So in the eighteen fifties, a French occultist

0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:45.840
<v Speaker 1>named Jacques Benoit developed a theory that when two snails

0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:49.879
<v Speaker 1>made it, their exchange of fluids forged a telepathic bond

0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:53.000
<v Speaker 1>that would connect them across any distance. So if you

0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:56.480
<v Speaker 1>poked one snail, its mate would flinch as if it

0:23:56.520 --> 0:24:00.960
<v Speaker 1>had also been touched. So, in ben Wah's this kind

0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:04.679
<v Speaker 1>of sympathetic action at a distance was really no different

0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:08.159
<v Speaker 1>than electricity, and he figured that if those forces, you know,

0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:12.119
<v Speaker 1>electricity and magnetism, could be harnessed for telecommunications as they

0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 1>recently had been with a telegraph. Then maybe this animal

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:20.960
<v Speaker 1>magnetism could serve the same purpose. I mean, in one sense,

0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:24.440
<v Speaker 1>it sounds vaguely credible until you remember that snails are

0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 1>not psychic, you know.

0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that is kind of a sticking point, I guess,

0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:30.719
<v Speaker 2>but it didn't stop ben Wah from testing his theory.

0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.600
<v Speaker 2>In eighteen fifty one, he claimed to have devised a

0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 2>telegraph that would use the psychic link between twenty four

0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 2>pairs of snails to send messages from one side of

0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:43.199
<v Speaker 2>the world to the other. He even managed to smooth

0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:47.479
<v Speaker 2>talk a wealthy Parisian named Monsieur Triat into funding his

0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:50.960
<v Speaker 2>experiments and providing lodging and a stipend for him while

0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:53.560
<v Speaker 2>he worked on the machine, which I'm sure was money

0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:56.359
<v Speaker 2>well spent. But how is this supposed to work? So

0:24:56.400 --> 0:24:59.639
<v Speaker 2>the final build consisted of two paired sets of twenty

0:24:59.680 --> 0:25:02.679
<v Speaker 2>four snails each so forty eight snails total, which were

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.800
<v Speaker 2>glued to a pair of wooden boards alongside the letters

0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:08.760
<v Speaker 2>of the French alphabet. And the idea was that if

0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:11.280
<v Speaker 2>you pressed a snail on one board, its mate on

0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:14.400
<v Speaker 2>the other board would stick out its tentacles in response,

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:16.640
<v Speaker 2>and those are the little things on top of its head,

0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:20.000
<v Speaker 2>by the way. And just like regular telegraphs, this required

0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:22.800
<v Speaker 2>an operator on each end, one to send the message

0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:25.760
<v Speaker 2>and one to monitor the snail's movements to see which

0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:26.880
<v Speaker 2>letters had been pressed.

0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>There is something both fishy and gross about the psychic

0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:34.720
<v Speaker 1>snail telegraphy.

0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, you're not the only one to think that.

0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:39.879
<v Speaker 2>So after months of frustration and nothing to show for it,

0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Monsieur Triat demanded a demonstration, you know, to see where

0:25:43.520 --> 0:25:47.200
<v Speaker 2>all his money was going. Benoa agreed, but surprise, surprise,

0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:50.480
<v Speaker 2>it didn't go so well. During the trial, Benoa ran

0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:53.439
<v Speaker 2>back and forth to make sure the operators were reading

0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:57.080
<v Speaker 2>the snails correctly, so it was blatant cheating, and the

0:25:57.119 --> 0:26:01.800
<v Speaker 2>messages still wound up totally garbled. Triot called for a second,

0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:04.600
<v Speaker 2>more rigorous demonstration, but when the day of the second

0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:08.840
<v Speaker 2>test arrived, Benoah didn't show up. He never contacted Triot

0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.240
<v Speaker 2>again and died the next year. So it was all

0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:14.840
<v Speaker 2>a big scam. But it's fun to imagine a world

0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:18.200
<v Speaker 2>where ben Wah's vision became reality, Like he had plans

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:21.040
<v Speaker 2>to make personal snail telegraphs the size of a pocket

0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:23.960
<v Speaker 2>watch because there are snail species, you know, as small

0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:26.680
<v Speaker 2>as a pinhead, and if that had happened, we could

0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:32.920
<v Speaker 2>all be carrying around psychic snail telegraphs instead of smartphone.

0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:36.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But all right,

0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:39.879
<v Speaker 1>let's wrap this thing up with one last fact. So

0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:42.480
<v Speaker 1>over the summer we did an episode where we took

0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:46.120
<v Speaker 1>a virtual trip across Australia. Now I have never been

0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:49.119
<v Speaker 1>to Australia in real life, but that episode was so

0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:51.760
<v Speaker 1>much fun. I ended up doing some more reading about

0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:55.200
<v Speaker 1>the landown under and I learned about a fascinating tool

0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:57.200
<v Speaker 1>called message sticks.

0:26:57.040 --> 0:26:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Which I'm assuming is Aussie slang for post it notes.

0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Right. No, they're actual sticks, and they have an incredible

0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:07.000
<v Speaker 1>history that goes back centuries. So, as you may know,

0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:11.600
<v Speaker 1>Australia's Aboriginal people are considered the world's oldest continuous living culture,

0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:15.440
<v Speaker 1>and within that culture are hundreds of different nations. They

0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:18.359
<v Speaker 1>speak over two hundred and fifty languages eight hundred dialects,

0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:22.400
<v Speaker 1>and yet for hundreds even thousands of years, Indigenous people

0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:25.639
<v Speaker 1>were able to communicate with each other despite differences in

0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:28.919
<v Speaker 1>their spoken language and the challenges of traveling across remote

0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:33.920
<v Speaker 1>wilderness areas. So early European colonists witnessed thousands of First

0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:38.119
<v Speaker 1>Nations people gathering from hundreds of kilometers away, all arriving

0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:40.680
<v Speaker 1>at the same place at the same time, and they

0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:43.800
<v Speaker 1>just assumed it was telepathy, right, a little like your

0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:47.960
<v Speaker 1>snail telegraph. It was actually something simpler but just as impressive.

0:27:48.359 --> 0:27:51.679
<v Speaker 1>They had these carved wooden sticks inscribed with images that

0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:55.800
<v Speaker 1>gave precise instructions for meeting times and places, as well

0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:59.320
<v Speaker 1>as other important news. So the process begins with an

0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:01.960
<v Speaker 1>oral message that would be communicated to a messenger. As

0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:04.440
<v Speaker 1>the stick was carved. That way, the sender could explain

0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:06.560
<v Speaker 1>to the messenger how the symbols on the stick related

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:09.240
<v Speaker 1>to the message. Then the messenger carried the stick to

0:28:09.240 --> 0:28:12.400
<v Speaker 1>the recipient and repeated the oral message that he'd memorized.

0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:14.440
<v Speaker 1>So if there were any language barriers, the stick would

0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:17.320
<v Speaker 1>make sure that he points got through. If the recipient

0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:19.480
<v Speaker 1>wanted to send a message back, they'd repeat the process

0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:20.880
<v Speaker 1>before the messenger went home.

0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Have these message sticks been preserved in any way, It

0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:26.080
<v Speaker 2>seems like they'd be an amazing cultural record.

0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:29.439
<v Speaker 1>They have, and they are so. An anthropologist named Pierce

0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Kelly has created the Australian Message Stick Project, which tracks

0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:36.840
<v Speaker 1>down message sticks and museums and private collections. He actually

0:28:36.840 --> 0:28:40.000
<v Speaker 1>works closely with Indigenous elders to decode the meaning of

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:43.680
<v Speaker 1>their symbols, and oddly enough, there are people alive today

0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:46.480
<v Speaker 1>who understand the symbols because in some parts of Australia

0:28:46.640 --> 0:28:49.840
<v Speaker 1>message sticks were still in use until the nineteen eighties.

0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Plus many of the symbols refer to places and practices

0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:56.400
<v Speaker 1>that remain important to Aboriginal life. So in fact, according

0:28:56.400 --> 0:29:00.000
<v Speaker 1>to Kelly, there's been this message stick revival in Australia,

0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:04.400
<v Speaker 1>particularly for formal interactions between institutions. So while message stakes

0:29:04.400 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 1>are a connection to the past, they still have meaning

0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:09.960
<v Speaker 1>in the present, which I really love. Yeah, I love

0:29:10.000 --> 0:29:10.320
<v Speaker 1>that too.

0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:13.120
<v Speaker 2>It's you. You somehow made this a little heartwarming. So

0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:16.800
<v Speaker 2>think I think for that and floriography, you should probably

0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:17.840
<v Speaker 2>take the trophy this time.

0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:22.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't think I can because snail messaging is too gross.

0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:27.160
<v Speaker 1>And also the John j fact about that what was

0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:33.880
<v Speaker 1>it called something? Not? It was son nuts a new

0:29:34.160 --> 0:29:40.720
<v Speaker 1>scravel word. Shout out to John Jay and Monsieur Benoa. Awesome.

0:29:40.840 --> 0:29:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Well that does it for today's Nine Things episode of

0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:46.400
<v Speaker 1>part Time Juniors. I do want to thank our good

0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:48.920
<v Speaker 1>friends at CDM for letting us record here today. And

0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:52.240
<v Speaker 1>I know I mentioned this earlier, but we love communicating

0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:56.120
<v Speaker 1>with our fans, so send us your stories, ideas, messages, whatever.

0:29:56.560 --> 0:29:58.560
<v Speaker 1>We would love to play some of those messages on

0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:00.760
<v Speaker 1>the show. That number again and for the hotline is

0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:03.760
<v Speaker 1>three two four oh five five nine two five. But

0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:08.640
<v Speaker 1>from Will, Mary, Gabe, Dylan and myself, thank you so

0:30:08.760 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 1>much for listening. Part Time Genius is a production of

0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This show is hosted by Will Pearson

0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:33.480
<v Speaker 1>and Me Mongas Chatikler and research by our good pal

0:30:33.720 --> 0:30:37.640
<v Speaker 1>Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode was engineered and produced by

0:30:37.640 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 1>the wonderful Dylan Fagan with support from Tyler Klang. The

0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:44.880
<v Speaker 1>show is executive produced for iHeart by Katrina Norvell and

0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Ali Perry, with social media support from Sasha Gay, trustee

0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:53.240
<v Speaker 1>Dara Potts and Vine Shoory. For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope

0:30:53.280 --> 0:30:58.160
<v Speaker 1>and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:07.640
<v Speaker 1>you listen to your favorite shows.

0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:01.480
<v Speaker 2>The