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Speaker 1: Welcome Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, you, welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick, and we're bringing you a listener mail.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It's been a little while we've had some

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Speaker 1: great listener mail build up and so we are here

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Speaker 1: to share it with you and help us share the

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Speaker 1: listener mail love. We have as always Carney our mail bought. Uh, Carney,

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Speaker 1: say hi to the audience now. Carney. Uh, you know

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Speaker 1: he always listens into our topics and then of course

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Speaker 1: he feeds off of the listener mail and he you know,

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Speaker 1: he was really into our series on facial recognition software,

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Speaker 1: you know, because he is mostly software. But he was

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Speaker 1: also very interested in my question I raised about whether

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Speaker 1: dogs have faces. As we're a number of listeners. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's stirred up some I don't know, debate. I

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Speaker 1: guess you could say on online about whether dogs have faces.

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Speaker 1: Now mostly it's just people saying yes, I think dogs

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Speaker 1: have faces. And here's why, Um, I don't feel particularly

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Speaker 1: strongly about it myself. I just merely commented that I

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Speaker 1: just tend not to think of the front of a

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Speaker 1: dog's skull as being a face. I certainly see is

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Speaker 1: having eyes and a mouth and a nose and so forth.

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Speaker 1: But I still cannot believe this. This is the weirdest

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Speaker 1: thing you ever said. But it's not just dogs, it's

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Speaker 1: just you know, animals in general, um, that are not

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Speaker 1: human or nearly so at any rate. It apparently messed

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Speaker 1: with Carney a little bit as well, because now he

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Speaker 1: was obsessively going around scanning the fronts of dogs skulls

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Speaker 1: and trying to put together some sort of facial recognition

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Speaker 1: argument based off of that. Just wait till he gets

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Speaker 1: to the buck flower dog from Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's gonna really throw him for a curve,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. I gotta give shout out. Seth reminded us

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Speaker 1: of that one that is the best human face dog

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Speaker 1: of all time? Wasn't there one in there was like

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Speaker 1: a similar film from the seventies that had to do

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Speaker 1: with witchcraft, like alan Alda and It or something. Oh,

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Speaker 1: this is ringing bells. Yeah, I just looked it up.

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Speaker 1: It's called the Mephisto Waltz. I've never seen this one

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Speaker 1: looks really good. You know, I don't think I ever

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Speaker 1: saw it in its entirety either, but back when I

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Speaker 1: was watching a lot of Sci Fi Channel, back in

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Speaker 1: the old days of Sci Fi Channel, when they spelled

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Speaker 1: it correctly, um, they would hopeful for it with Siffycifia.

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Speaker 1: They would have a lot of promos for you know,

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Speaker 1: these films that they had the rights to show, and

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Speaker 1: one of them was The Mephisto Waltz and I think

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Speaker 1: they showed the the Faced Dog creature in that trailer

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Speaker 1: right in the middle of the Forever Night marathon. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I don't think they were showing Forever

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Speaker 1: Night at that point. This is back when they were

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Speaker 1: all about it was classic Doctor Who and also occasional

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Speaker 1: like shows like what Man I'm Manimal? Was that it

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Speaker 1: sequest I don't know, maybe se Quest definitely, Time Tunnel

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Speaker 1: shows like that, movies like Gargoyle Space was another one

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Speaker 1: that got a lot of play. So what was the

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Speaker 1: one with the car the car that could talk? Night Writer? Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember if Night Writers on there or not.

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Speaker 1: We'll stay tuned for the new podcast series Robert and

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Speaker 1: I are soon launching about classic sci Fi Channel programming.

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Speaker 1: I would love to do that podcast. I don't know

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Speaker 1: anyone else wants to listen to it. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I would make that in my free time. Uh No,

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Speaker 1: but today is about stuff to blow your mind, and

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Speaker 1: it is about stuff to blow your mind listener mail.

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Speaker 1: We Yeah, we received a lot of great stuff related

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Speaker 1: to the face recognition episodes, certainly, but also volcanoes was

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Speaker 1: a big topic. Yeah, a bunch of stuff. I guess

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Speaker 1: we could start by addressing one thing we got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of mail about. We may have brought this up

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Speaker 1: on the website before, but I figure here's a good

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Speaker 1: time to say. A lot of people have just emailed saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: where's your website? Or like, I'm looking for source lists

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Speaker 1: links that would be on the landing page for this episode.

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Speaker 1: Can you help me find them? Sorry, folks, our website

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Speaker 1: has been led off to the website Slaughterhouse. It is

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Speaker 1: no more. That's right. Yeah, and this I believe happened

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Speaker 1: for all the shows that you know that are in

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Speaker 1: the you know what was previously known as the Stuff Network.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, now, if you got to Stuff to Build

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Speaker 1: your Mind dot com, if you go to invention pod

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Speaker 1: dot com, or if you go to the websites for

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Speaker 1: shows like stuff you should know or stuff you missed

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Speaker 1: in history class, those will direct to i Heart listings

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Speaker 1: for that show. Right now, To be clear, we don't

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Speaker 1: want you to be alarmed. This doesn't mean anything about

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Speaker 1: the show itself. The show is not going away anything

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Speaker 1: like that. It's just my Heart doesn't have individual websites

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Speaker 1: for its podcasts, and they enforced that on our show

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Speaker 1: among all others. Now, and if you're looking for like

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Speaker 1: lists of resources that were used in a particular episode,

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Speaker 1: I guess the good news there is that we kind

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Speaker 1: of sucked at doing that anyway, especially recently, so there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of There wasn't a lot lost in

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Speaker 1: that regard. I think the ain thing that was that

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Speaker 1: was lost is that we had a you know, we

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Speaker 1: had a pretty good, uh, you know, searchable archive system

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Speaker 1: of past episodes. It was a good way to go

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Speaker 1: back and look at post past episodes. And there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of blog posts on there from over the years.

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Speaker 1: But I had not been actively blogging for you know,

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Speaker 1: at least a year, so um and no ongoing blogging

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Speaker 1: efforts were interrupted on that count. Oh and while the

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Speaker 1: website is no longer accessible. They assure us that it's

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Speaker 1: still somewhere in the dark space, and that means that,

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Speaker 1: for all we know, it could return in the future.

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Speaker 1: It's just not there right now. But if there's something particular,

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Speaker 1: something specific you were looking for, you can always just

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Speaker 1: email us and ask. And you know, if it's a

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Speaker 1: question about a source, we use like, hey, what was

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Speaker 1: that book you mentioned? How do you spelled that author's

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Speaker 1: last name? Uh, we can will generally be able to

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Speaker 1: get back to you and let you know, we'll do

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Speaker 1: our best right and likewise, if you're trying to remember,

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Speaker 1: like if you are thinking back to a blog post

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Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, what was that blog post? What

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Speaker 1: was that topic? Uh, you know, ask us via email

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Speaker 1: and you know, maybe we can fish that up for you.

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Speaker 1: You know, no promises, but uh, sometimes we can retrieve

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Speaker 1: that information certainly. So I guess it's time to jump

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Speaker 1: into the listener messages now. As always, we've got a

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Speaker 1: preface this by saying we're sorry. We get so much

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Speaker 1: wonderful mail. There is no way, uh in heck, for

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Speaker 1: us to read it all or even get close. This

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Speaker 1: will just have to be a small selection of messages,

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Speaker 1: but we appreciate all the mail we get. If your

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Speaker 1: message was not featured, please don't take it personally. Right

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Speaker 1: again and maybe you'll get on next time. But this

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Speaker 1: first message concerns our pair of episodes about the eruption

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Speaker 1: of Mount Vesuvius. This comes from Seth. Seth says, hi, there.

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Speaker 1: My name is Seth, and I'm a park ranger at

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Speaker 1: Mount Rainier National Park. Specifically, my job title is climbing ranger.

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Speaker 1: That means my duties include staffing the high camps and

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Speaker 1: climbing the mountain many times each spring and summer. I've

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Speaker 1: also worked for twelve years as a climbing guide on

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Speaker 1: Mountain Rainier and many other mountains all over the world,

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Speaker 1: including many of the ones on your list of volcanoes

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Speaker 1: at the end of Lessons of Vesuvius Part two. WHOA,

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time living, climbing, skiing, and

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Speaker 1: working on an active volcano, and so I really enjoyed

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Speaker 1: the Vesuvius series, although the description of the victims at

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Speaker 1: Pompeii and Herculaneum did give me serious pause. As I

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Speaker 1: work and live both on and near Mount Rainier. Yikes,

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Speaker 1: I would prefer my brain tissue to remain un vitrified.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I was also surprised that Mount Rainier did

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Speaker 1: not make your list of volcanoes with large populations living

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Speaker 1: in close proximity. It is the only decade volcano in

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Speaker 1: the continental USA, and there are millions of people that

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Speaker 1: would be affected if the volcano were to erupt. I

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Speaker 1: guess the main issue, though, is really the lahars that

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Speaker 1: would form from pyroclastic flows melting the largest glacier system

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Speaker 1: in the lower forty eight and scouring dirt, rock and

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Speaker 1: debris from the river valleys and carrying them all the

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Speaker 1: way to tide water, not the explosion of the volcano itself.

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Speaker 1: Your podcast really got me wondering why I have felt

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Speaker 1: drawn to this mountain. I've spent nearly twenty years climbing, skiing,

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Speaker 1: and working on it, and the steaming fumaroles, sulfur seeps,

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Speaker 1: and crater ice caves always inspire a sense of wonder

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Speaker 1: and awe, even after more than two hundred times climbing

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Speaker 1: the summit. I really enjoyed the episodes, so thanks for that.

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Speaker 1: I'm also really hoping you do one on the year

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Speaker 1: without a summer. As an avid skier, I would love

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Speaker 1: to have a year like that, just as long as

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Speaker 1: we don't have any boathouse situations. Best regards, Seth, Well,

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Speaker 1: thanks for getting in touch, Seth. The mention of Lahars

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Speaker 1: actually brings me back to something that we did talk

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Speaker 1: about in one of our Vesuvius episodes where we mentioned

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Speaker 1: the volcano Catla in Iceland, which is near the village

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Speaker 1: of vik Has down on the southern coast of Iceland,

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Speaker 1: and I was talking about how I had been there,

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Speaker 1: and Katla is in a similar situation to what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about there, the threat is not so much of

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Speaker 1: an explosive eruption like Vesuvius. The threat is changed by

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Speaker 1: the fact that the volcano there lies under this vast glacier.

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Speaker 1: So try to imagine what happens when a volcano erupts

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Speaker 1: under millions of tons of ice. The greatest danger from

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Speaker 1: eruptions here comes from Lahars again. You know, these these

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Speaker 1: floods of mud and water coming out of the glacier

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Speaker 1: system and from a yokolaps. Oh, these are the the

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Speaker 1: ice giants, right, Yeah, these are these outburst floods from glaciers. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, so like there might be a lake that

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Speaker 1: is fed by the flow off of a glacier as

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Speaker 1: it melts. But then suddenly lots of heat melts a

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Speaker 1: lot of glacial water, and that then the lake breaches

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Speaker 1: whatever container it's normally held in and there's rapid draining.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of times we don't even imagine properly

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Speaker 1: what the most destructive elements of a volcanic eruption would be.

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Speaker 1: And one of the funniest things is that people often think, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the danger of a volcanic eruption comes from flows of lava.

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Speaker 1: That's like one of the least dangers to worry about.

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Speaker 1: I mean, certainly, if you were in the position to

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Speaker 1: be affected by the flowing lava, it's dangerous. But but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's all these other factors, and ultimately it's in many

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Speaker 1: of the scenari as we mentioned, it's it's what happens

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Speaker 1: when then the population flees. Where are they going, what

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Speaker 1: are the what kind of conditions are in place for

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Speaker 1: them to actually evacuate the area. All right, here's another one.

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Speaker 1: This one comes to us from Derek Derek Rites. Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: just finished listening to Lessons of Vessuvious Part two and

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Speaker 1: had an experience to share my wife and I visit

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Speaker 1: Hawaii every few years, not as often as I'd like.

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Speaker 1: During one of our trips, we rented a house in

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Speaker 1: a community just outside of Pahoa on the Big Island.

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Speaker 1: It was fantastic. Later I learned that in two thousand eighteen,

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Speaker 1: several rifts opened not to even two ms away from

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Speaker 1: the house where we stayed. Needless to say, it is

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Speaker 1: long gone. During our twenty nineteen trip, I was excited

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Speaker 1: to see if I could estimate the location of our

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Speaker 1: former getaway by visiting the lava field. I certainly could

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Speaker 1: have located at using a GPS, But every place at

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Speaker 1: which the a road encountered the lava flow, there were

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Speaker 1: many signs warning that venturing into the area was both

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Speaker 1: dangerous and illegal. I read, what do you think he

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Speaker 1: should have the signs? Obey the sign? Having been to

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Speaker 1: volcano Volcano National Park. Don't be one of those people

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Speaker 1: who disregards the sign. I know, I okay, so you

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Speaker 1: did you know? Yes, obey the signs, do not cross

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Speaker 1: over into the dangerous area. But I'm one who constitutionally,

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Speaker 1: by nature, is drawn into areas that you are not

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Speaker 1: allowed to go into. Well, I understand that, yes, anyway,

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Speaker 1: he continues, I read that the area is still private property,

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Speaker 1: and walking out onto the lava would have been trespassing.

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Speaker 1: I was amazed at two other observations of the surrounding area.

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Speaker 1: One more than a year after the lava flow, there

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Speaker 1: are still areas of the field so hot that steam

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Speaker 1: pours from brakes in the crust. Too. I saw many

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Speaker 1: dozens of instances of trees already sprouting from the field,

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Speaker 1: tiny palm seedlings amidst the black landscape, taking keen advantage

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Speaker 1: of the lack of competition and nutrients. I'm sure really

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Speaker 1: which astounds me more the devastating destructive power or life

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Speaker 1: a blatant disregard for it. Thanks guys, keep up the

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Speaker 1: good work, Derek. That reminds me of the stories of

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Speaker 1: the forests pouring into the caldera on Vesuvius. Uh. Life

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Speaker 1: not only finds a way, life almost just kind of

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Speaker 1: gives a middle finger to the geologic danger. The I

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Speaker 1: have to drive him again though that you know, anyone

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Speaker 1: out there, if you have the opportunity to visit the

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Speaker 1: Big Island and go to Volcano National Park, uh or,

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Speaker 1: it's I just highly recommended. I went there once many

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Speaker 1: years ago, and I haven't had the chance to go

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Speaker 1: back yet, but I hope to because it's it's just

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's amazing experience to be able to walk

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Speaker 1: through these volcanic craters, uh, To to like look down

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Speaker 1: into a crater and see a complete rainbow below you

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Speaker 1: in the crater, or walk through a crater and see

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Speaker 1: the rainbow overhead and like pass beneath it and then

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Speaker 1: look back and see it behind you. And to interact

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Speaker 1: with these environments that you feel like you're in another world. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then to see either you know, direct signs or

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Speaker 1: these other signs of the you know, intense volcanic activity

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Speaker 1: of the living earth right there beneath you. It's it's

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Speaker 1: unlike anything else. Do you want to move on to

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Speaker 1: Karma Mudah? Yeah, let's move on to that, that wonderful,

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Speaker 1: warm feeling of Karma Muda. Okay, here come the warm fields.

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Speaker 1: This first message is from Helen. Helen says, high stuff

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Speaker 1: to blow your mind. Love. Your work keeps me entertained

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Speaker 1: and educated, and more importantly, indulges my intellectual curiosity in

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Speaker 1: a contained way. I won't know what that means. Contained

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Speaker 1: way within the limits of the podcast, episode The Limits

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Speaker 1: of Sanity. Helen says, the recent episode on Karma Muda

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Speaker 1: reminds me of another feeling which hasn't a direct English

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Speaker 1: language correlate. It's one of my three personal life principles.

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Speaker 1: A gope this is an ancient Greek word and is

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Speaker 1: usually interpreted in a Christian context, is godlike love. But

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Speaker 1: I was taught that it means unconditional love between humans,

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Speaker 1: which is reliant upon nothing except the shared existence. The

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Speaker 1: best example I can think of is showing love and

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Speaker 1: care and compassion for someone even when there is hate

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Speaker 1: between them, treating your enemies with respect and mercy simply

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Speaker 1: because they are also human. It's hard to do to

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Speaker 1: transcend the secondary feelings one has for another person, and

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Speaker 1: it sometimes seems futile and grudging. But having been on

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Speaker 1: the receiving end of it before, I can attest it's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that could make a difference in

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Speaker 1: a single person's life, So I try to practice it

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Speaker 1: where I can. Thanks again, don't ever stop making us think.

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Speaker 1: All right, here's another listener mail Lion comes to us

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Speaker 1: from Kelly. Also on Karma Muda, Kelly riots Hi, Robert

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Speaker 1: and Joe. I love the episode on Karma Muda. As

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Speaker 1: a musician and a music teacher, I have tried to

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Speaker 1: describe this emotion so often and can never quite find

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Speaker 1: the words for it. I recently got back into playing

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Speaker 1: with an ensemble, which I really missed. I would often

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Speaker 1: try to articulate what I love about playing with a

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Speaker 1: group that I couldn't get from playing alone, but I

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Speaker 1: never felt that my explanation captured exactly what I was feeling.

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Speaker 1: Listening to this episode, I realized that karma muta was

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Speaker 1: exactly what I was trying to convey. Creating music with

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Speaker 1: a group provides that sense of camaraderie, shared experiences, goose pumps,

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Speaker 1: and often quote a sudden upwelling of uncontrollable happiness to

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Speaker 1: use Joe's words. Even though I won't likely use the

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Speaker 1: term karma muda and everyday conversation, I do feel that

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Speaker 1: understanding the term actually has helped me understand the feeling better.

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Speaker 1: Thank you both for the hard work you put into

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Speaker 1: the podcast every week. That'st which is Kelly having played

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Speaker 1: in a band, I absolutely know what Kelly's talking about.

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Speaker 1: This feeling of like when when you kind of lock

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Speaker 1: in and suddenly everything's going right when you're playing music

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Speaker 1: with other people, especially, I feel like in improvising music,

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Speaker 1: like if there's a moment where you're improvising music with

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Speaker 1: other people and everybody like makes a change at the

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Speaker 1: same time. I'm it's like that sudden moment where you

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Speaker 1: you feel as if there's some kind of telepathy between

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Speaker 1: you and you can get goose bumps, the feeling in

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Speaker 1: the chest. It's very powerful. Interesting. I've never had that experience.

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Speaker 1: I was never like in a garage band or anything

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Speaker 1: like that, but but certainly in the more structured sense

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Speaker 1: of just the communal creation of music, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the high school band for example, and then UM

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Speaker 1: and occasionally like church choir, is that sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: like the community communal singing opportunities. I can very much

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Speaker 1: understand what Kelly is talking about here. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of music are I think, very strongly inherently

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Speaker 1: unifying whenever you perform with other people. Yeah, Okay. This

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Speaker 1: next message comes from Vicky. Vicky says, Dear Robert and Joe,

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Speaker 1: I've been listening to stuff Table in your mind since

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Speaker 1: and listening to inventions since it started. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: all the thought provoking topics. I really enjoyed the Kamma

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Speaker 1: Mudah show, and I wanted to add another reason why

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Speaker 1: someone might want a word for this feeling. Since the

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Speaker 1: feeling can be overwhelming to some of us, we can

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Speaker 1: disarm it a bit if we have a word. I

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Speaker 1: have a few personal experiences of creating a word for this. First,

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Speaker 1: when I was a teenager growing up in Wisconsin, my

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Speaker 1: dad and I were watching some kind of nature documentary

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Speaker 1: with baby animals surviving against odds, which created a strong

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Speaker 1: feeling of karma mudah. But I didn't want to cry.

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Speaker 1: I was a teenager, and I looked at my dad,

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Speaker 1: who was also trying not to cry. He was an

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Speaker 1: American man, and he said, it's heartwarming, and that made

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Speaker 1: us both laugh. After that, heartwarming was our secret code

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Speaker 1: for when we saw something that brought up those feelings

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Speaker 1: and we could laugh instead of crying. This is interesting

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Speaker 1: and the idea that that you're feeling that essentially the

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Speaker 1: Kama move to so strongly that it must be expressed.

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Speaker 1: There has to be an an outlet for it. It

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Speaker 1: reminds me of some of the I believe it was

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Speaker 1: a past episode I can't remember. I recorded this one

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Speaker 1: with you or maybe this was a Julie episode, but

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Speaker 1: about the desire to to bite a baby, because it's

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Speaker 1: so cute that this was with Julia. Okay, yeah, uh

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Speaker 1: and and as I recall, the argument here was, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're just so overcome with this feeling and it needs

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Speaker 1: out in some way, and like the best you can

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Speaker 1: sometimes do is to like reach out and like pinch

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Speaker 1: the child to just sort of deflate the overwhelming sense

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Speaker 1: of kama muda. And this sounds oddly similar. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, there's this we're feeling something, something is happening.

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Speaker 1: We have to say it. We have to transform it

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Speaker 1: into transfigure it into some other emotion, otherwise it's going

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Speaker 1: to destroy us. Yes. She tells another example about this

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Speaker 1: that I think is interesting. So this one also involves singing.

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Speaker 1: So she says, Now, I live in Tokyo. I've been

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Speaker 1: here for more than twenty five years, married to a

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Speaker 1: Japanese man. I belong to an association of quote foreign

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Speaker 1: wives women currently are formally partnered with a Japanese person,

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Speaker 1: and we gather once a year from all across Japan

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Speaker 1: for a weekend convention. It's always a great time, but

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Speaker 1: it always closes on Sunday morning with the ceremony where

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Speaker 1: everyone holds hands and sings a song written by one

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Speaker 1: of the members Total Karma Muda. I find it too overwhelming,

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Speaker 1: so several years back I started sneaking out just before

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Speaker 1: the singing, and I found several other women doing the

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Speaker 1: same thing. So now we plan it. We talk about

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Speaker 1: when to make our escape, a timely visit to the restroom,

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Speaker 1: for example, to avoid the singing. We all know what

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Speaker 1: the singing means. It's not the singing itself. I go

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Speaker 1: out to karaoke with some of these people. It's that

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Speaker 1: overwhelming feeling. Japanese has a word for that feeling, kendao,

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Speaker 1: literally emotions moving, and people use it fairly often in conversation.

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Speaker 1: When I first came here, I was surprised that people

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Speaker 1: would say in English that something had moved them, but

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Speaker 1: eventually I realized they were just translating the Japanese word uh.

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Speaker 1: And at the end, she recommends a video that invokes

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Speaker 1: mild Karma Muda. It's a promotional video made by the

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Speaker 1: Kanagawa Prefecture that involves a lot of people from the

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Speaker 1: area singing and dancing in costume. To this one pop song.

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Speaker 1: It is indeed extremely cute and very sweet. But this

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Speaker 1: is really interesting because she talks about all these these

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Speaker 1: multiple methods, both like having a kind of code word,

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Speaker 1: but then also having a kind of avoidance ritual, all

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Speaker 1: for avoiding situations that are going to cause that karma

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Speaker 1: muda reaction, the goose bumps, the tears, the you know,

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Speaker 1: the warmness in the chest, because sometimes it's too much,

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Speaker 1: and people do this strategically all the time. And like,

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Speaker 1: you know, even though the emotion of karma mudas described

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Speaker 1: as inherently pleasurable, even though it feels good, it represents

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Speaker 1: a loss of control. It can be frightening, embarrassing, It

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Speaker 1: can make you feel vulnerable. Yeah, I mean I can,

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Speaker 1: I can. I think I can relate to that sum

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Speaker 1: with movies because I certainly at times appreciate being moved

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Speaker 1: by a film, you know, uh, you know, the emotional

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Speaker 1: roller coaster of a of a good film, and if

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Speaker 1: it's done right, you don't feel manipulated. You know, you

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Speaker 1: feel as if you were you're actually actually engaging with

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Speaker 1: the picture. But then there are other times where you

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Speaker 1: just don't want to feel that, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: certainly don't want to feel like the filmmakers are trying

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Speaker 1: to manipulate you into having a particular emotional state. And

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Speaker 1: maybe that's one of the reasons I'm drawn to to

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Speaker 1: to bad films, is that that oftentimes you you can

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Speaker 1: be sure that you're probably not going to have a

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Speaker 1: strong emotional reaction unless it, I don't know, unless it's

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Speaker 1: to something that is, you know, done poorly and poor

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Speaker 1: done poorly in just the right way to evoke those

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Speaker 1: kind of emotions. And this is basically how I feel

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Speaker 1: when anyone makes like a current horror movie recommendation for

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Speaker 1: him and they're like, oh, you should see such and such.

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Speaker 1: Make you feel so bad, it's gonna be so shocking,

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Speaker 1: it's just really gonna tear you apart. And I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I think I'd rather just watch something with a rubber

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Speaker 1: monster costume. And you were just talking about your love

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Speaker 1: for the fly that's the king of genuine bad feelings. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I think the part of that is that I

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Speaker 1: saw it. I saw it at a at a point

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Speaker 1: in my life when I was more open to those

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Speaker 1: experiences where I was like, yes, let me watch some

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Speaker 1: challenging horror. I'm ready to be challenged and and uh

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Speaker 1: and so now you know it already has a warm

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Speaker 1: place in my heart. It's not going to shock me

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Speaker 1: with anything new. I mean, I maybe you know, when

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Speaker 1: you revisit a film, you always feel something. If it's

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Speaker 1: a good film, anyway, you feel something different, you find

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Speaker 1: new corners to it. But for the most part, I

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Speaker 1: know what I'm going to get um and and maybe

427
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I'm as I get older, I'm less inclined

428
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: to have that kind of vulnerable experience, especially with the

429
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: horror film, you know, because I don't know, it's like

430
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: the the horror film does not have my my best

431
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: interests at heart, necessarily just trying to hurt you. Yeah,

432
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 1: that's I think some films. I think a lot of

433
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: films like and granted this is a this is also

434
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 1: a risk with bad horror, you know, because it's sometimes

435
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: it's even worse right because they're struggling with the with

436
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: titanic feelings of like fee you're in hatred and and

437
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: uh and then so forth, like all these negative aspects

438
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: of of existence. And then sometimes the people managing all

439
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: of these feelings, you know, they don't have the the

440
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: storytelling or filmmaking. Um, expertise to really do it well.

441
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: So it's like going to a pharmacy and having somebody like, uh,

442
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: you know what, it could compile your spilling pills all

443
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: over you and it kills all over the place, and

444
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: then feeling like, oh, well, this is probably going to

445
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: poison me because they have no idea what they're doing.

446
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: They don't know how to dish out the appropriate dosage.

447
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: And you want you want the appropriate dosage of horror. Uh.

448
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's easier to air on underdosing yourself. Okay,

449
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: dogs don't have faces, and the movies are trying to

450
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: harm you. Well sometimes no, I mean I think you

451
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: could be right, You could be onto something there. But

452
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: you know what, Robert, I think this next this next

453
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: email is gonna put you in a vulnerable place and

454
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: make you feel something. All right, here we go. This

455
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: one comes to us from George. I was listening to

456
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: the Warm Feelings episode and was moderately skeptical of the sensation,

457
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,199
Speaker 1: which made me feel odd since I was hearing so

458
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: much evidence. The feeling was short lived due to the

459
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: explanation of the mooda scale. I perked up, knowing full

460
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: well the story. After the explanation. The mention of being

461
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: a wrestling fan did cause me to experience the feeling

462
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: in my chest and I felt an involuntary smile in

463
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: the sense of Cammoderie. Living in Orlando, I get the

464
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: chance to attend in XT television with around three hundred people,

465
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: and there is a special communal energy. As an aside,

466
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: I am thrilled to be seeing Great Mooda live this

467
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: April in Tampa. Thank you for the varied subjects and

468
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: depth of research and attention. Do you make my work

469
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: day that much better? George V Uh, Well, yeah, that's

470
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: that's awesome to hear. I I I think this is

471
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: a common experience with you know, with seeing uh say,

472
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 1: professional wrestling or any kind of like performance like this,

473
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: especially when you have a smaller the inside kind of

474
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: like tighten it, tighten nit group, Uh, you know, certainly

475
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: with three people and attendance at an inn x T taping. Uh.

476
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 1: You know, it makes sense that you would have this, uh,

477
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: this kind of reaction to it. You know, I naively

478
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: would have expected that wrestling falls more in the bad

479
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: movie category, where it's something that you can expect to

480
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 1: only engage you in a shallow way that it's kind

481
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: of funny and fun and you you wouldn't expect to

482
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: be deeply emotionally moved by it. I'm surprised how much

483
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: emotional investment people do seem to have in it. Well,

484
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: it's you can get very invested in an emotional experience

485
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: even if you know basically what's going to happen. Uh.

486
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: One example wrestling based that comes to mind to explain

487
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 1: this is I've seen people talk about Luca Libre in Mexico,

488
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: and I forget who was having this conversation, but one

489
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: side was like, well, I would get more into it,

490
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: but it's so predictable, like you know whether the good

491
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: guy or the bad guy is gonna win, and uh,

492
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: and then the other and compared it more to like

493
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: a passion play, you know, where the good guys win

494
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: for the same reasons that the good guys win in

495
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: myths and folk tales and so forth, And so you

496
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: have to think of it less as a like cinematic

497
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: presentation of a story and more of these you know,

498
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: these these tropes, these ideals coming together and battling each other,

499
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: and then the audience shares in the communal experience of this.

500
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: So it's I mean, it's it's the same with puppet

501
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: shows and shadow puppetry and various performances throughout history. In

502
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: that regard, don't be the guy hating on wrestling because

503
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: it's not realistic. Come on, well, like an example, a

504
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: fun example. Over the weekend I was in Uh, I

505
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: was at Universal Studios, Florida in the Harry Potter Land

506
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: with my family. My son's a big Harry Potter fan.

507
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: We're all Harry Potter fans. And they had like this

508
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: live performance puppet show of the story of the Three

509
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: brothers as is told in The Deathly Hallows. Uh. And

510
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's a it's a fun little story

511
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: like three adventurers and death and the gifts of death,

512
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 1: the older one, the you know, this is the magical Stone,

513
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: the invisibility cloak. And they so they're performing the story

514
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: for everybody. Everybody knows the story because they've they've either

515
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: read it, you know, or if they've seen the film. Uh.

516
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: And perhaps they've seen it earlier in the day because

517
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: they perform it like every half hour, so right, but

518
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: everybody gets into it, like part of it is knowing

519
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: the show you're about to see and uh. And there

520
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: was this kind of communal vibe to it. It was

521
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: pretty exciting, even though it is, you know, a performance

522
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: at a theme park. All right, Well, on that note,

523
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break, but when we

524
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: come back, we will explore some additional entries of listener mail.

525
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: Thank alright, we're back. We're moving on from Kama Muda

526
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: and getting into some divine territory. Right, so we're gonna

527
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: be talking about messages that came in after our is

528
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: Santa God episodes. Those were definitely a lot of fun. Again,

529
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: we know some people occasionally listen with their kids, so

530
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: the next few minutes will involve some frank discussion of

531
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: the jolliest of old elves. Just be warned there, that's right,

532
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: Skip ahead if you need to, all right, Taylor writes, Hi,

533
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: Robert and Joe Taylor again, writing from Salt Lake City,

534
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: to share my childhood experience of Santa in a Christian household.

535
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,479
Speaker 1: I grew up LDS or Mormon more colloquially, and Santa

536
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: did experience a mild induction into my childhood faith. I've

537
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: always been intensely curious, and even as a child, was

538
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: very concerned about establishing a consistent ideology for the universe.

539
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: So when I was four or five years old, I

540
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: wondered why Santa would need to keep watch when God

541
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: already knew everything that was going on. For context, my

542
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: family and I have have long since left the faith,

543
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: and my parents were never very fundamental about their beliefs.

544
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 1: When I presented my Santa dilimit to my parents, they

545
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: cunningly replied that God must have invested Santa with this

546
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: holiday responsibility, and I was delighted that God would be

547
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,719
Speaker 1: concerned with which transformers I received that year. My parents

548
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: never made any connection to the historical St. Nicholas, perhaps

549
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: because Mormonism is an American religion far removed from Catholicism,

550
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: perhaps because they weren't very interested in history back then,

551
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: and most likely because, as you say, they were Santa.

552
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: The belief was cemented when I stumbled across an esoteric

553
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: verse in King James version of the Bible Zachariah to six. Quote, Ho, Ho,

554
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: come forth and flee from the land of the north,

555
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: Saith the Lord, for I have spread you abroad as

556
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: the four winds of the heaven, Saith the Lord whoa

557
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: unquote between the Ho Ho the land of the north

558
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: and spread abroad as the Four winds. I was convinced

559
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: of Santa's divine investiture, never mind the context or the

560
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: rest of the surrounding versus. These revelations and a repeat

561
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: encounter with a Mall Santa sustained my fundamental belief in

562
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: the jolly old Elf for sever for more years, despite

563
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: my investigative nature. As for the Mall Santa, I ran

564
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: into him twice in a week, first at a grocery

565
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: store and then at a party organized by our congregation.

566
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: When I sat on Santa's lap at the church party,

567
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: he handily remembered what I'd asked him for days prior

568
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: to the grocery store, and that blew my little mind.

569
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: The possibility that this was a man with a particularly

570
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: gifted memory and not the literal Chris Kringle did not

571
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: cross my mind. For some years. I didn't believe that

572
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: every Mall Santa was the genuine article, but I thought

573
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: the fat Man must spice it up with some special appearances.

574
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: Happy holidays to you both, and thank you as always

575
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: for creating such genuinely engaging content. I haven't missed an

576
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: episode in years. Taylor, PS, I'm thrilled you enjoyed my

577
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: Pokemon email enough to share it that one must have

578
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: been a while back. Uh, this was great, And this

579
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: really connected with a lot of memories I have about

580
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: Santa beliefs as a kid, like trying to trying to

581
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: incorporate Santa into a Christian worldview and saying, Okay, God

582
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: already knows everything, but Santa all also knows everything. Santa

583
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: must sort of work for God. He's like maybe at

584
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: the level of the angels or something. I don't know,

585
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: it's weird, I you know, just despite growing up in

586
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, in a religious household and uh and certainly

587
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: hearing talk about God and church and so forth, I

588
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: don't think I have a really compared God with Santa.

589
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't really. I don't know. I'm not

590
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: sure what it was, but I never really thought too

591
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: long and hard about what their relationship with each other were.

592
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: In a way, I kind of maybe it was kind

593
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: of it was kind of like engaging with with separate worldviews.

594
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: Like when I was thinking about Santa, I was thinking

595
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: about like the Santa um uh, you know, version of

596
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: of reality. And then when I'm engaging with with with churches,

597
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: the church version of reality, and um, yeah, that's that's

598
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: the best I can figure on that on that count. Yeah,

599
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: I guess I was always trying to make sense of

600
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: it crammed together like Taylor, like putting it all in. Okay,

601
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: how does this fit? Um? I also remember this similar

602
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: feeling of like, Okay, I know not all of the

603
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: Santa's you see at the mall and everywhere can be

604
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: the real Santa, but I wonder if some of them

605
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: are like this, like Taylor saying, like occasionally the real

606
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: Santa shows up at the mall, but most of the

607
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: mall Santa's are fake. Yeah. Yeah. Becomes just such an

608
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: increasingly complex exercise when you're trying stitch that together. And

609
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: I guess that's part of the situation, right. Eventually you

610
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: just use there are just too many flaws, there are

611
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: too many plot holes and uh and certainly if you

612
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: pull out comes Razor out, then that's the end of it. Now.

613
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: This next email comes from our listener Arson, and it

614
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: concerns the question we asked in the Santa God episode,

615
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: like what would it take for a real Santa religion

616
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: to form, like an actual religion with Santa as a god?

617
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: You know, meant seriously in the way people's other gods

618
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: are meant seriously. Arson says, Hello, Robert and Joe. I

619
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: think I have a simple solution for how Santa Claus

620
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: could continue to inspire belief in adults. The first is

621
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: to change physical gifts wrapped with a label staying there

622
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: from Santa two gifts with less concrete origins. It's pretty

623
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: common in religions focused on a deity for people to

624
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: attribute fortunate things to various gods. This is also a

625
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: common way to scam people out of money, most notably

626
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: groups or individuals that request the person being scammed to

627
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: send increasing amounts of money with the promise that there

628
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: will be an exponential return on that investment. Even though

629
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: there is no real result, the person being scammed can

630
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: attribute their luck to the scam and thus their belief

631
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: in the ideas behind it can be strengthened. It would

632
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: not take much of a stretch to tell children who

633
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,239
Speaker 1: reach a certain age that adults do the work of

634
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: distributing gifts that Santa provides for in the form of

635
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: mysterious windfalls. This would have a basis in St. Nicholas history,

636
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: since he was said to give money to keep people

637
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: out of poverty and sin. The tradition some people have

638
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: of choosing one person to play Santa and hand out

639
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: gifts could work as a stepping stone for older children

640
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: who would be preparing to be agents of Santa themselves.

641
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: This would eliminate the need for Santa to have a

642
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: physical location and to workshop and helpers. He would only

643
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: need to mysteriously provide resources. This could also change the

644
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: equation about who receives presents. Naughty children might lead to

645
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: a family receiving less bounty during the holidays, so unfortunate

646
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: circumstances might be placed on children not being good enough. Hopefully,

647
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: though the blame would fall equally on everyone. In that case,

648
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: everyone in the house would have incentive to keep everyone

649
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: else in line. If the Elf on a shelf remained popular,

650
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: it could take a darker turn and mutate into one

651
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: of Santa's evil helpers. Another thing he is known for

652
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: is being a protector of children, which seems to be

653
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: one reason he survived various cultural and religious shifts. I

654
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 1: highly recommend listening to the episode of Our Fake History

655
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 1: where the host goes into detail about all of his variations.

656
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: In one instance, a child who had been abducted was

657
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: rescued by a flying St. Nicholas, who swooped in, grabbed

658
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 1: him by the hair, and deposited him with his family.

659
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: But St. Nicholas was also known as zealously disciplined bad children,

660
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: including beating them. His various helpers have been known to

661
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: enslave bad children or worse. I think it would be

662
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: easy for an adult, especially apparent, to buy more into

663
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: this myth because of how fragile children are. They might

664
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: not fear a child being physically carried off. But what

665
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: if these helpers had equally mysterious gifts to give? Was

666
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: that flu a fluke? Or was the child naughty? Does

667
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: my child have good enough grades or a clean enough

668
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: room to be on the good list? I can imagine

669
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: parents agonizing over this, especially if we end up in

670
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: a world where antibiotics stop working in superbugs reign supreme.

671
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: On that note, I hope you both have a wonderful

672
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: holiday season and a happy new year. Arson. Well, I'm

673
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: having a happy New Year and and and a good

674
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: holiday season, Thank you, Arson. I agree with the out

675
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: of this as as I think we sort of expressed

676
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: in the episodes. If Santa would have any chance of

677
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: actually becoming a god through cultural shifts over time. I

678
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: think one of the most important changes would have to be,

679
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: like Arson's talking about a trend toward abstraction and obscurity,

680
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: intangible gifts at unpredictable times rather than concrete toys on

681
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: Christmas Morning. But then it wouldn't be Santa. Is the thing? Like,

682
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: the part of the thing about Santa is that Santa

683
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: appeals to young minds who don't have a lot of

684
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: space for these intangibles. You know, they want the very tangible.

685
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 1: They want the gift that is visible under the tree,

686
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: that you can pick up, that you can hold, that

687
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: you can play with, the actual Santa whose lap you

688
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: can say you can sit on. And I feel like

689
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: the more abstract you make it, the more you make

690
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: it for adults, the less it will it will actually

691
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: resonate with the child, and then paradoxically, the less it

692
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: will then resonate with the backward looking adults. Well, but

693
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly why Arson's proposing this like progression

694
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: and right, where so adults play Santa and giving concrete

695
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: gifts to children that the children understand is coming from Santa.

696
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: And then there's a rite of passage. Whereas you grow

697
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: up you realize, oh, okay, the concrete gifts that the

698
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: children got, those were the you know, those were uh

699
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: from adults pretending to be Santa, sort of the priests

700
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: of Santa. The real Santa gives intangible benefits like health

701
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: and wealth and stuff to people, to adults who are good. Okay, Um, well,

702
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: I'll also say December is crazy and nobody has time

703
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: for this. This is this is too elaborate a con Uh,

704
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: it's enough to just do like the normal Santa thing. Oh,

705
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean people find room to do

706
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: the regular Santa thing in December and then do prosperity

707
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 1: gospel the rest of the year. I mean, yeah, I

708
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: guess so. And I know, I mean Arson makes some

709
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: good points. Maybe I'm just I'm just against the idea

710
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: of destroying the idea of Santa. So like, you know,

711
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: there's something pure about it. Let it, let it live

712
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: for the short time it can thrive. Well, I'll defend Arson.

713
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: I don't think Arson is suggesting this would be a

714
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: good thing to do. All right, here's another one. This

715
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: one comes to us from Mark. Hey, guys, absolutely love

716
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: your podcast. I'm a couple of weeks behind, and I

717
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: just finished your two episodes on whether Santa qualifies as

718
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: a god or not. A couple of things struck out

719
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: to me, namely the processed food gods. You touched on

720
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: the ridiculousness of the crunch wrap Supreme God as well

721
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: as the flying spaghetti Monster. It occurred to me that

722
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: both of those examples involved processed foods. I eat foods

723
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: that aren't found in nature. I know certain cultures have

724
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: gods that reside over certain foods, like rice gods and

725
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: Asian cultures. I was wondering if in your hours upon

726
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: days upon weeks of research you would come across other

727
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: gods constructed by humans. There are plenty of examples of

728
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: humans made items becoming animate or being possessed by spirits

729
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: in many cultures, but I don't recall ever hearing examples

730
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: of god's being handmade. Best regards, Mark, Yeah, the best

731
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 1: example I could think of the this fits more into

732
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: the first half of what you're talking about is the Sukamogami,

733
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: the tool gods from the Japanese legends that we talked about.

734
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: So these like tools that were cast out in the

735
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: New Year, um they would become animate but I don't

736
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: think they became You're mark you're sort of making a

737
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: distinction between gods that are, like, you know, powerful creator

738
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: type figures versus just kind of things that are inhabited

739
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: by minor spirits. And I think the Sukamogami were more

740
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: minor spirits. Yeah, like he's talking about, could you have

741
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: a situation where a major deity is a rock or

742
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: something to that effect or it well is is a

743
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: handmade thing? Is something made by humans? Like a major

744
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: deity is uh is a metal detector, or a major

745
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: deity is a sword. My my, my answer would be

746
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: would be two part. First of all, certainly nothing is

747
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: immediately coming to mind, though of course it could be

748
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: missing something. The other thing is that one of the problems,

749
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: or I guess one of the problems you get into

750
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 1: when you start asking this question about God's in various

751
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: belief systems is that you run into examples where God's

752
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: have multiple forms, right, they have multiple likenesses that ultimately

753
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: some up the uh, the the the larger and in

754
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: human quality of the god. Where so you it's conceivable

755
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: you might have a god that sometimes appears as say

756
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: a trident or as a sword, but inevitably that God

757
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 1: will also have other forms, if not within the same

758
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: belief system, than at least within the tradition of belief

759
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: in that entity. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think you're right.

760
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: There are tons of God's that can metaphorically or maybe

761
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: even literally take forms of human made objects. Uh, much

762
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: more often if you accept a metaphorical uses. I mean,

763
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: like Jesus says I am the door. He that enters

764
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: me will be saved and will go in and out

765
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: to pasture, you know. But like, um, that's obviously meant

766
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: as like a metaphor. It's just saying like it is

767
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: through me that something will happen. Right, Surely there are myths.

768
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: I didn't find any directly, but surely there are myths

769
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: of gods that have sort of anthropomorphic forms, generally appearing

770
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: in the forms of weapons. That's got to happen. Well, yeah,

771
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: it would be interesting to look into that more and

772
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: I look for specific examples of that. All right, we're

773
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: gonna take another break, but when we come back, we

774
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: are going to consider some facial recognition emails. Thank alright,

775
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: we're back, all right. So these messages came in response

776
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: to the facial recognition episodes. We did this first one.

777
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: It comes from Jim in New Jersey. Jim says, Robert

778
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: and Joe, I have several thoughts in your latest facial

779
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: recognition episodes. When I was a teenager, I would develop

780
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: a crush on a girl, but I was also too

781
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: shy and awkward to approach her. I noticed I had

782
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: a very difficult time recalling her face when she was

783
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: not around. I don't recall having this for anyone else.

784
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: I have no idea of the cause. I figured it

785
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: was a mental tick as I struggled to figure out dating.

786
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: That was kind of interesting. I think we talked in

787
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: the episode about the ideas of facial recognition maybe being

788
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: um easier in cases where you engage less emotionally with

789
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: the face. I wonder um, Jim says, advanced forward several decades.

790
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 1: One day, I was passing a coworker in the hall

791
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: and we stopped to chat. Her face disappeared. It was

792
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: replaced with something kind of shimmery. I looked away and

793
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: noticed it wasn't just her face, it was this. It

794
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: was my center field of vision. I had previously scheduled

795
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: an eye appointment soon after that, and I described it

796
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: to the doctor. She very casually said that I had

797
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: experienced an ocular migraine and that I should worry about it.

798
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: I think maybe Jim means I shouldn't worry about it.

799
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 1: Um she got them too. I've only had a handful since,

800
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: and they tend to go away in a minute or two.

801
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: Oliver Sacks had them as well and wrote of them. Finally,

802
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: your discussion of law enforcement using facial recognition software produced

803
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: a scene in my mind. I'm sure we've all seen

804
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: in crime drama movies and television. It's the trope of

805
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: the corkboard and the detective room with photos of the

806
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: suspects and lines connecting them. What if facial recognition software

807
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: could produce these Here's my thought. Facial recognition software finds

808
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: the suspects face and photos scraped off the web. There

809
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: will certainly be others faces in some of these photos.

810
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll be able to identify these faces, which

811
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: could lead to other photos with new faces, and more

812
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 1: photos with more faces. Each photo with multiple faces would

813
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 1: be a link establishing relationship of those in the photo.

814
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: More shared photos would increase the strength of that relationship. Eventually,

815
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: probably very quickly, a network of closely related individuals would

816
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: emerge the gang, so to speak. We already have clustering

817
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: algorithms that do this. We might even be able to

818
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 1: identify subclusters and hierarchies within the organization. I'm not sure

819
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: if I find this idea really interesting or really frightening.

820
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: Uh Jim in New Jersey, and Jim also says thanks.

821
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: I now have the Friends theme song repeating in my

822
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: head as an earworm. I think that comes from us

823
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: talking about Jennifer Aniston cells Ester, Jennifer Anderson Cellsis. Yeah,

824
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: and we talked a little bit about about about the

825
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: about sitcoms and the house. Sometimes the characterism sitcoms are

826
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 1: so familiar that they are like actual friends. Right, here's

827
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: another one when comes to us from Liam Liam Wrights. Hey,

828
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: Joe and Robert. First of all, love the show as

829
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: well as invention I made to jump over from stuff

830
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: you should know just over a year ago and have

831
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: smashed your catalog in that time. Both your intellectual insights

832
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: and tight research really does blow my mind. Just finished

833
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: listening to the three part facial recognition apps. I'm the

834
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: kind of person that usually takes the side of if

835
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: you have nothing to hide, who cares, mainly because trying

836
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: to stop technology seems futile, so just go with the

837
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: flow and try and enjoy the terrifying ride. At the

838
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: start of the first episode, I thought, man, what's the

839
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: big deal? But by the end I was fully aboard

840
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: the bannit until we figured this out, boat. I do

841
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 1: find it interesting to think that for half a century

842
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: or more we've been waiting and hoping for a personal

843
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: helper robot to clean in our homes and make our dinner.

844
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: But this would require facial recognition to be a thing

845
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: and work flawlessly. Now it looks like we were very

846
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: close to it being a reality. I find it a

847
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: little creepy to imagine to help a robot that could

848
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: recognize me, even with a partially covered face, nefarious government

849
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: taps into your domestic robots to be spies, and the

850
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: home the story rights itself. Anyway, keep it up. I

851
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: recommend your show to anyone standing nearby who says the

852
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: word podcast cheers Liam. So it sounds like we scared you.

853
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if we meant to scare you. I

854
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: guess we did mean to give you a fuller picture.

855
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, I mean, I guess we did intend

856
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: to scare people, at least, I mean I felt a

857
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: little scared after researching it. I mean part of it.

858
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: I think the importance of it is that there is

859
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: a lot in technology that we have that we're anxious about.

860
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: But this is an area where, like our cultural anxiety

861
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: around it, I don't think has generally speaking, has not

862
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: risen to the appropriate level. So, you know, whatever we

863
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: can do to to help you fear the things in

864
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: technology that you should fear more like this, and perhaps

865
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: a little less in other categories that you might have

866
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: been freaking out about, like this is one that we're

867
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 1: also at a point where some things can be done,

868
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: Some things can uh, some you know, restrictions can be

869
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: put in place. It's not necessarily too late. Yeah, this

870
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: is followed through in the next email. This comes from Kenna.

871
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: Kenna said, Hi, Robert and Josh. Oh, thanks Kenneth, thanks

872
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: a lot. It's okay. I understand. Well, you know, she

873
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: maybe she thinks you're Robert and I'm Josh, so it

874
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: could go either way. Hi, Robert and Josh. I just

875
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: listened to all your facial recognition episodes back to back,

876
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: and I think, uh, and I think the people arguing

877
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: for only restricting these sorts of technologies by the end

878
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: user legal agreement covered in episode three are missing a

879
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: very major point tech monopolies and coercive end user agreements,

880
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: wherein you have to agree to the term terms in

881
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 1: order to access a necessary service. We talked a little

882
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: bit about this, I think, when we talked about like

883
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: using facial recognition for payment, but can it continues? For example,

884
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: one of the earlier episodes mentioned using facial recognition to

885
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: compile medical records of livestock applied to cows. This seems

886
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: like a good idea, but if it were instituted as

887
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: part of your electronic medical records or as your real

888
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: idea for voting, opting in would be a requirement for

889
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: civic participation or access to healthcare. Extrapolate that to public

890
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: school access, receiving government unemployment or disability benefits, or citizenship

891
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: verification for employment, and you can quickly make facial recognition

892
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: not only an insidious tool of surveillance, but an extremely

893
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: insecure one, much like social security numbers are becoming as

894
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: we're required to give them out more and more often

895
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: to verify our identity, our credit, and the like. Love

896
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: the episodes. They really clarified the reasoning behind my instinctive

897
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: dread of this particular form of surveillance. Kenna very good points,

898
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 1: I think. All right, here's another one. This one comes

899
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: to us from Eli. Hey, they're a big fan of

900
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: the show. I just had to write in because when

901
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 1: Robert said that dogs don't have faces, I mentally did

902
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: a double take. If that makes sense. I actually lost

903
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: my train of thought. I was listening to the podcast

904
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 1: at work because I instantly was gripped by the question

905
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: do people not think dogs have faces? And it's just me?

906
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: And then when Joe laughed, it seemed that my world

907
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: was turning right side back up. Not that my experience

908
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: is representative of a larger swath of humanity, but as

909
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: I thought about it, I've never heard of someone who

910
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: doesn't consider dogs, cats, or birds birds to have faces.

911
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: Here shocked and newly shocked, and it just seems like

912
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: a bird has less of a face. Faces anyway, Eli

913
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: continues frequently, both my wife and sister will refer to

914
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: dogs faces as they interpret their emotions or when describing

915
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: how cute they are. So thanks for saying that you

916
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,479
Speaker 1: don't see it that way, Robert, because I had never

917
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: even suppose there was another way to see it. Keep

918
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: up the good work, Eli, you know, I share realized thoughts.

919
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: I know, seriously, I I don't see how you could

920
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: think dogs don't have faces. But I'm glad you don't.

921
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: I think that's very interesting. You have expanded my mind.

922
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: I mean that, Like I said, I'm not trying to

923
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: convince anybody of this um this way of thinking about

924
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: about faces. But if I were to, if there was

925
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: like a you know these kind of like um uh,

926
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, human identity tests that they give you sometimes,

927
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: like there'll be a grid of squares and you have

928
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: to highlight all the squares that have stop signs in them.

929
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: If I were presented with one of those, and you

930
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,879
Speaker 1: had like human faces and some and then you had

931
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: some pictures of like cats and dogs and the others,

932
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: and it says mark all the ones that have faces,

933
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: I guess I would fail that test and they would

934
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: consider me to be some sort of Internet scrying robot.

935
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: But no, that'd be good you You'd be sabotaging the

936
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: machine for our for our benefit in the long run. Okay, okay,

937
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: I think we should transition to talking about some feedback

938
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: we got on our episode on Band or Snatch, where

939
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: we talked a good bit about free will, whether this

940
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: concept makes any sense, how issues of it are highlighted by,

941
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: you know, the ways that technology may be accommodating our

942
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: preferences without us even knowing it. This first message comes

943
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: to us from Andreas. Andrea says, Hi, guys, on the

944
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: band or Snatch episode, you mentioned the possibility of movie

945
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: content to be specifically tailored to specific audiences, based on,

946
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: for example, their ideological or political profiles, and I think

947
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: you insinuated that this might be a positive experience for

948
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: the user, the underlying reasoning being, of course, that their

949
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: own world view is reinforced. To clarify, I definitely didn't

950
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: mean it would be positive, but I uh. We did

951
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: talk about how companies might assume that this would be

952
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: more palatable to a wider range of users, which I

953
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: think is probably true. That might be different than being

954
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: actually beneficial. Andreas continues to challenge this. I would posit

955
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,720
Speaker 1: the following two options, but with their own worldly consequences.

956
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 1: A human beings are inherently flawed, and that we instinctively

957
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: seek to reinforce our own beliefs and that technology will

958
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: inevitably drive us towards an increasingly polarized world of ideological bubbles.

959
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 1: This option would confirm your thesis on the Bandersnatch episode.

960
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: But there's another option. Be human beings are inherently flawed,

961
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 1: and that we have a longing and desire for stories

962
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: and legends to contain our own ideologies, and very importantly,

963
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: for those ideologies to be disseminated to and adopted by

964
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: more people, not to reinforce our own beliefs, but to

965
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: impose or bring those beliefs on others, perhaps with the

966
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: motivation of growing and strengthening the tribe with which we identify.

967
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: If B is true, assuming that the movie watching audience

968
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: is aware that the content they're watching is specifically tailored

969
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: to them, So again, this would be like you know,

970
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: you watch the movie and it just like there are

971
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: multiple versions of each scene filmed, where you can get

972
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: the version that that the computer thinks is most suitable

973
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: to your personality. Um, and they would arguably not find

974
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: any additional pleasure in watching a story with a worldview

975
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: consistent with their own, since they would know that it

976
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: was only themselves who got to see it, and that

977
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: their world view would not be disseminated to others who

978
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 1: disagreed with it. As an example, would you rather watch

979
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: a a political commentator on your favorite political TV channel

980
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: stating a point with which you agree, or be watched

981
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: the same political commentator go on a news show that

982
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: typically hosts different political views and make the same statements there.

983
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: In both cases, your world view is reinforced, but the

984
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: second option, it is also disseminated to people who disagree

985
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 1: with it. Uh and Andreas thinks that people will find

986
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: this much more satisfying. I think that we want to

987
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: see our beliefs reinforced, but only in so far as

988
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: they are communicated to others. Hence, the pleasure someone might

989
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: take in, for example, watching a strongman's speech in a movie,

990
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: does not solely come from the speech matching their belief

991
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: but from them agreeing with it and into more importantly,

992
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: knowing that others will hear this supposedly important speech. I

993
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 1: wonder what you think. Thanks for the great show, Andreas. Uh.

994
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: I think this makes a sort of good point. But

995
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: I think that these are both true to some extent,

996
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: because hearing statements we strongly already agree with is inherently pleasing.

997
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 1: For multiple reasons. For example, processing fluency. You know, we've

998
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: talked about this on the show before. We naturally find

999
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,280
Speaker 1: ideas all kinds of stimuli, not just statements about politics,

1000
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: but you know, art and stuff like that, more pleasing

1001
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: when we're more familiar with it, when it is easily

1002
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: processed by the brain, because the brain is lazy and

1003
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: it likes things that are easy to take in and

1004
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: make sense of. But then also, you know, there are

1005
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: other reasons why it might feel good, like creating a

1006
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 1: feeling of social inclusion. Uh. But I agree with Andreas

1007
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: that we also like the idea of statements we agree

1008
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: with being spread to others in the context of a

1009
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: fictional TV show. Um, you know, we're watching it for

1010
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: entertainment and relaxation. Usually I can see pure processing fluency

1011
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: advantage driving a big slice of the behavioral pie about

1012
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: how people would actually express their preferences. Yeah, you know,

1013
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: Andreas brings brings up some good points here. I feel

1014
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,320
Speaker 1: a little differently about the uh, you know, the the

1015
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: the possibility a versus possibility be because possibility be in

1016
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 1: which you know, your your favorite political commentator or whatever

1017
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: goes on a show and shares this idea with others.

1018
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: That sounds a lot like to put it in a

1019
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: like a film connotation, like a movie going connotation, like

1020
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 1: watching a film that you're into with a hostile audience

1021
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 1: and that does not sound pleasant to me. That sounds

1022
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 1: like something I would wish to avoid at all costs,

1023
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,720
Speaker 1: because I don't want I would prefer to enjoy something

1024
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: I like with like minded people that will also enjoy

1025
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: it and I and I I'm not one of those

1026
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: people that it's where I want to then see my

1027
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: the things I love like battered into other people like

1028
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: I would. I would like to share things that I

1029
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: like with other people that might be receptive to them.

1030
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 1: But I'm not going to stand around trying to convince

1031
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: somebody that say The Fly is a great movie if

1032
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: I know they're just not the type of person who

1033
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: likes this film. Well, here's a here's a counterpoint I'll

1034
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: give you. I have a very specific memory about a

1035
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: film with you know that could be interpreted in a

1036
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 1: political way and a seemingly hostile audience. I remember when

1037
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: I was in very conservative East Tennessee going to a

1038
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: movie theater and seeing Brokeback Mountain in the theater and

1039
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: I remember, specifically at the time, being concerned that there

1040
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: would be people who would be in the audience with

1041
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: like I don't know, with anti gay points of view,

1042
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: reacting in a hostile way to the film in the theater,

1043
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: and I remember early in the film there were some

1044
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: people around me who, you know, they weren't hostile, but

1045
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: they were kind of like snickering, like like the movie

1046
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: was funny. And then at the end some of those

1047
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: same people were walking out of the movie in tears,

1048
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: and that I don't know that that was an interesting

1049
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: experience because I felt like the movie um to to

1050
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: an audience of people who might not necessarily have been

1051
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 1: very sympathetic to the idea of of a romance between

1052
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: two men originally for some reason ended up in the

1053
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: theater watching this movie and then we're emotionally moved by it.

1054
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: I guess one of the things that they had that

1055
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 1: is most comforting about this scenario is that it comes

1056
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: down to the fact that there is there is a

1057
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: concrete version of this film. So if if anyone is

1058
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: won over by some aspect of it, they are still

1059
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 1: one over by the film Brokeback Mountain or or well

1060
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: whatever the you know, the specific film. Example is but

1061
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: you if we go into this like full future band

1062
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,359
Speaker 1: or snacks scenario, which I just to clarify again, I

1063
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: was not bringing that up in the episode because I

1064
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 1: was saying it's good. No, no, like yeah, like the

1065
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: bad thing about it would mean that it would mean

1066
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: nothing to say that you like a particular film exactly.

1067
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 1: Brokeback Mountain is different for everybody who views it based

1068
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: on their own pre existing uh, you know, religious or

1069
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: political viewpoint. Then it means absolutely nothing to say you

1070
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: like it because everybody will like it because the version

1071
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: they are served will be the version that matches their

1072
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: expectations and their values exactly. And I think that's a

1073
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: very good wrinkle. Yeah, I mean it would. It would

1074
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: totally change what it means to say that you that

1075
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: you liked a movie or that you liked a TV show.

1076
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 1: It would it would mean more like, you know, whatever

1077
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: version of this the machine put together for me because

1078
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: it thought I would like it, did indeed trigger my

1079
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: pleasure centers. It would not represent a statement that was

1080
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 1: applicable to anybody else's experience. And then how would people

1081
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: have hot takes on films anymore? Right? Well, that might

1082
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: be good but all right, here's another one. This one

1083
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: comes to us from m Cat m cat Rights. As

1084
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: you discussed in the Basilist episode, the free will of

1085
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: people are hard to predict, and I just wanted to

1086
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 1: put in my input on your band or Snatch episod

1087
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: it when I played through the episode of Bandersnatch, and

1088
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: I believe m Kat is talking about actually watching the

1089
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: episode of Black Mirrors. Yeah, I hated that they pushed

1090
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: me to only two choices. Every time a choice came up.

1091
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: As I played, I came up on the choice of

1092
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: watching one of two characters die on screen. I really

1093
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: didn't like it, so I chose a third option. Never prompted,

1094
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: I quit watching. I stopped the episode and never watched

1095
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: it again. I refused the two choices always put forth.

1096
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: I kind of felt heroic, feeling like I saved a

1097
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: life doing it. But I feel like you didn't even

1098
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: possibly think of this on the episode you recorded on

1099
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: the Bandersnatch. Personally, I hate being forced to an A

1100
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: or be choice. There's many ways to think about an option,

1101
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: but I feel like personally that people don't think outside

1102
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: the box. Hopefully someone else also said this to help

1103
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: think on the options, but also I love your podcast

1104
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: and you help my three year old son fall asleep

1105
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: with your calm voices. Plus I get to learn on

1106
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: the side. Thanks for your critical thinking skills, and I

1107
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: will always be a fan m cat. Yeah. Yeah, And

1108
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: certainly one always has the option of turning it off,

1109
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 1: which which is it's I think it's valuable to h

1110
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: to keep that in mind, is that you can always

1111
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: just reject the thing that you're you're interacting with. Like

1112
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: I actually had this conversation with my son recently because

1113
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: we were watching we happen to come come across like

1114
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 1: shortlisted films for Best Animated Short, uh, and we watched

1115
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: this one about this um these two stuffed animals that

1116
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,439
Speaker 1: live in a sushi restaurant, and it was really sad.

1117
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: It was like a sad, little little short and he

1118
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: didn't like it. It made him feel sad, and so

1119
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: I had to explain to it's like, well, you know,

1120
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: one of the things about about watching shows and you know,

1121
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: engaging with art is that if you don't ultimately don't

1122
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: like it, it's totally okay to just to not like it,

1123
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: to reject it and say I'm not gonna let this

1124
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: one you know, really be a part of my mind

1125
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: anymore than it has to be. Uh So, I mean

1126
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: that's kind of an over explanation of the obvious. But

1127
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: if you don't like it, uh yeah, turn it off.

1128
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: And I don't mean that starthily, but we have to

1129
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: we have to. I think sometimes we have to remember that,

1130
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: given especially given like how important media is in our culture,

1131
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: that it's okay to just opt out of things that uh,

1132
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: you know don't make us happy, and we should be

1133
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: doing a lot more opting out. Yeah, okay. To address

1134
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: one more thing in response to band or Snatch, I

1135
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,919
Speaker 1: just have to uh address a Taylor wrote in We're

1136
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: not going to read this one in full, but but

1137
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: Taylor mentions quote in the episode Joe remarks that interactive

1138
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,919
Speaker 1: storytelling in video games was a mostly failed device. I'll

1139
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 1: forgive you, Joe, because I know you aren't a big gamer,

1140
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: but this absolutely is not the case. Player driven narratives

1141
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: are hugely popular and Triple A and indie video game

1142
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 1: titles alike, and are arguably the most popular method of

1143
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: storytelling in video games. Um So, whatever I said here,

1144
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: I probably failed to communicate what I meant to communicate,

1145
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: which I was trying to refer back to the style

1146
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: of interactive movie games that were popular on CD ROM

1147
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: and laser disc in the nineties. Do you remember these, Robert, Yeah,

1148
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: where it's it's more in keeping with banner snatches, it's

1149
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: a movie. Yeah, Like, there were several like high profile

1150
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: ones that were like major flops that were widely criticized. Uh.

1151
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: When I when I do play modern video games, it's

1152
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: absolutely good story driven games that I like, I don't

1153
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: mess around with, you know, multiplayer games or whatever that

1154
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 1: stuff is. So yes, I am aware of, uh, like,

1155
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: narrative based video games, and we've talked about some on

1156
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 1: the show before, like Soma and things like that. So

1157
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I was inarticulate about that. I the

1158
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 1: ones I meant had failed had been the CD ROM

1159
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: interactive movies, which like, Yeah, basically, I think the point

1160
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: you and I were both trying to make is that

1161
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 1: this idea of a cinematic experience, like a purely cinematic

1162
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:59,439
Speaker 1: experience that is also subject to audience choices, has never

1163
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: full taken off, and certainly has never rivaled the more

1164
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,919
Speaker 1: traditional cinematic experience. Yeah, I think the narrative can work

1165
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: in a more consistently active experience like a video game.

1166
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I think one thing that's jarring about something

1167
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: like Band or Snatch or any of these interactive movies

1168
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: is that you're constantly being sort of jostled back and

1169
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 1: forth between experiencing it in a passive way and then

1170
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 1: suddenly having to engage. And that is just not It's

1171
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: not a very smooth experience. It's not it's not necessarily

1172
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: a very pleasurable experience. It's better to be more in

1173
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: the fully active mode consistently, or in the fully passive

1174
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: mode consistently. Either want to be a driver or a passenger,

1175
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: but you don't want to suddenly have to switch back

1176
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: and forth between the two. That's a that's a great metaphor. Yeah,

1177
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: Like what would it be like to be writing where

1178
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: you kept having to reach over and take the wheel

1179
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: every few miles? All right, let's get to a few

1180
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: more listener mails here. We have something that came in

1181
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: regarding our our tenth anniversary episode. This is the episode

1182
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: where Alison louder Milk, my original co host on the show,

1183
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: came back on board and we we all caught up

1184
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 1: about We've got everybody caught up about like what's going

1185
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: on with how Stuff Works? And uh the former stuff

1186
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: podcast like Stuff to Build your Mind. We talked about

1187
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 1: what How Stuff Works is up to, what Alison is

1188
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: up to, and reminist a little bit about the the

1189
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: early days of of podcasting and how stuff Works. Now.

1190
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: When I pasted these into our document here, I made

1191
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: some abridgements in all of them, so these won't be

1192
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 1: read in full, just a few comments from each. This

1193
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: first one comes from Jim are frequent correspondent Jim in

1194
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: New Jersey. He says, congratulations on ten years. I think

1195
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: I've been listening since episode one. I checked my sent

1196
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: email and as best I can tell, I've written to

1197
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: you seventy seven now seventy eight times, he says. The

1198
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: first time he wrote in was two thousand eleven. About

1199
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: whether mathematics is an invention or a discovery, he argued

1200
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 1: as kind of both, I think, he argued, it's kind

1201
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: of like the rules of chess. You know, like you

1202
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: can discover strategies, but you also like invent the rules

1203
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: to be with uh, And then Jim says, may you

1204
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: have many more years to educate and entertain us. Jim

1205
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 1: in New Jersey. Jim, Yeah, Jim has an ability there

1206
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: with the emails that we do not have because we've

1207
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: changed owners enough time and we've changed email addresses enough

1208
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: time that like I have no I have no access

1209
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 1: to the old emails anymore. Yeah, you can't, can't search

1210
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 1: all the way back, all right? This one comes to

1211
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: us from Nathan to Robert Allison, Julie and all the

1212
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 1: hosts who followed after. Thank you for being part of

1213
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: my life. Ten years ago, I finished a decade in

1214
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: the Army and got my first smartphone, where I found

1215
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: a podcast out. The first podcast I listened to was

1216
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: Quirks and Quarks, followed in a few weeks with Stuff

1217
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: in the Science Lab. Your show became so much more

1218
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 1: than I expected. For the next five years I listened

1219
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: and became a legitimately different person. Despite being interested in science.

1220
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: I was raised as a Young Earth creationist and had

1221
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: lots of barriers to scientific thinking that we're just a

1222
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: part of my learning. Your clear explanation of scientific ideas

1223
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 1: and your willingness to revel in not knowing everything was

1224
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: one of the most refreshing things I could have at

1225
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: that time. And then Nathan goes on to say, so

1226
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 1: some other nice things. But but that's the quick summary there.

1227
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: I will say, I think a strength of our show

1228
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: is that we revel in not knowing everything. Yes, yeah,

1229
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: um yeah. I think that that is important is to

1230
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: ye to realize that there's there's not just knowing and

1231
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 1: not knowing. There is there is the journey between the

1232
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 1: two and and certain the ultimate knowledge, ultimate whatever you know.

1233
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 1: It's like we're all on a on a continuing journey

1234
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 1: of exploration and self betterment. And uh, that's just we

1235
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,479
Speaker 1: that the more willing we are to accept that, I think,

1236
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 1: the more peaceful our lives are. Alright. This next message

1237
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: comes from Josh. Josh says, Hello, Robert and Joe and

1238
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: Christian two. I heard you guys mentioned on the tenth

1239
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: anniversary show how much you appreciate it when listeners tell

1240
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: you the show changed their lives. I thought you might

1241
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: appreciate my story. I'm currently an engineering PhD students studying

1242
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: how bacteria interact with engineered nano materials. A large part

1243
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,479
Speaker 1: of why I decided to pursue a PhD is because

1244
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 1: of the attitude towards science is a continuous quest for knowledge.

1245
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 1: Shows like Stuff to Blow Your Mind have imparted on me.

1246
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: I started listening to podcasts about four years ago, and

1247
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 1: while many shows have been added or cut from my feet,

1248
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: I've always kept stuff to blow your mind. Sincerely, Josh,

1249
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: oh that that that is that is really sweet to

1250
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: hear and and and certainly, yeah, we are super grateful

1251
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: of anyone who who hangs with the show or or

1252
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: even discovers as a new because there's just so much.

1253
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: There's so much out there today. There's so many podcasts.

1254
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: Every you know, every expert seems to have a podcast

1255
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: these days. Every celebrity has a podcast. There's so many

1256
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 1: wonderful shows and also just a lot of noise as well.

1257
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, we feel privileged anytime we listeners

1258
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 1: continue to keep us in their feet, and you know,

1259
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: we we don't take that lightly. We realized that that

1260
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 1: is the place that that has that has to be earned, alright.

1261
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 1: This one comes to us from Anne and writes in

1262
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: and says, Hi, Robert and Joe, congratulations on hitting ten

1263
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: years of the podcast. I've listened to nearly the entire archive.

1264
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: I just need to listen to the first two episodes,

1265
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: How Fighting Asteroids Works and Amazing Infestations, which were mentioned

1266
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,919
Speaker 1: in today's anniversary special Allison was a great blast from

1267
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 1: the past. Uh. And then she goes on to suggest

1268
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: that some day someday we should explore the concept of

1269
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: deja rev. Is it deja rev I don't know literally

1270
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: translating to already dreamed? Have we ever experienced it? I

1271
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 1: assume she means, um, if we've ever had a dream

1272
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: that we feel like we've we've dreamt before. I think

1273
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: it's the other way around. I think it's you ever

1274
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 1: have the experience. It's like deja vou. But instead of

1275
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 1: thinking I already did this, you think I dreamed this,

1276
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 1: I've absolutely had that experience. I remember feeling that very

1277
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: strongly as a child. I there's one that's stuck out

1278
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 1: in my mind where um, I was in the front

1279
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: yard playing with some friends and I was running around

1280
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 1: and I ran into a low lying branch like hit

1281
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 1: me in the eye. And I remember that at the

1282
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: time just having this powerful feeling of this just happened

1283
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 1: to me in a dream. I dreamed this entire scene

1284
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: with the branch in my eye and and all the

1285
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 1: people here. And I don't think that was true, but

1286
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,639
Speaker 1: it was a powerful sensation. I don't think I've ever

1287
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: experienced that. I think I certainly have situations where I

1288
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: certainly experienced deja vu, and I've certainly had dreams that

1289
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: I either remember or misremember having had before. But I've

1290
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 1: never I don't think I've ever experienced anything in life

1291
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: and and felt like it was a reenactment of something

1292
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 1: that occurred in a dream. I think that's something we

1293
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 1: could definitely come back to. Thank you man anyway, and

1294
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: says thank you for reading my email. I think this

1295
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: would be a great topic to cover on the show.

1296
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 1: Cheers to ten more years, and all right, it sounds good,

1297
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: ten more, put it down for ten more. All these

1298
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 1: people breaking my heart. Seriously, y'all out there are are

1299
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 1: so kind to get in touch with us with these

1300
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: words of encouragement, and uh it feels so nice, so

1301
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 1: so thank you, Thank you the listener. Absolutely, and hopefully

1302
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: in ten years, when Carney is the sole host of

1303
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: the show, Carney will have us back on to to

1304
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 1: reminisce about the old days. Occasionally he'll bring on our

1305
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: jarred heads like in Futurama and we can argue with

1306
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 1: the Richard Nixon head. I'm looking forward to les. Yeah,

1307
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: that'll be good. All right, Well, like I said, we

1308
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 1: receive a lot of listener mail and we we we

1309
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 1: we generally read it all. We don't have time to

1310
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 1: respond to it all, and we don't have time to

1311
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 1: share it all here. But just you know, be assured

1312
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,719
Speaker 1: that if you send it in, our eyeballs will linger

1313
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: over it. Uh. And you know, if you didn't know,

1314
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: if you're stuff didn't get read today, maybe we'll fit

1315
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: it in next time, because again we've just received so

1316
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 1: much great content in meantime, if you want to check

1317
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: out other episodes of stuff to blow your mind, perhaps

1318
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: you heard reference to an episode that you haven't listened

1319
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 1: to yet, Well you can go back and find it

1320
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 1: where you can. Where can you find the show. You

1321
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:13,320
Speaker 1: can find the show anywhere you get your podcasts, wherever

1322
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: that happens to be. Just help us out by subscribing,

1323
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 1: by rating, and by reviewing. Those are the things you

1324
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: can do that help out the show in the long run,

1325
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 1: and certainly right in because we would love to hear

1326
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 1: from you. Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio

1327
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 1: producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get

1328
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or

1329
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 1: any other to suggest topic for the future, just to

1330
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: say hello. You can email us at contact at stuff

1331
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow your

1332
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 1: Mind is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff works.

1333
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio is the iHeart

1334
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1335
01:10:53,840 --> 01:11:10,440
Speaker 1: favorite shows. Biddy Present point four point Far Far