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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. We are returning to you with a

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Speaker 1: classic episode. This is the first of a two part

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Speaker 1: series Famous Lost Tombs.

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Speaker 2: Do you guys remember this one?

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Speaker 3: Ah?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I could we forget the famous lost tomb of Djengis.

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Speaker 3: Khan and those other guys.

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Speaker 1: And those several other people, so many that this is

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Speaker 1: a two part episode. I think we're all a little

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Speaker 1: fuzzy on the exact details here, so we'll be exploring

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Speaker 1: it along with you. I can't wait to hear what

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Speaker 1: you think.

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Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 5: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 3: name is Nolan.

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Speaker 2: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 1: We are joined with our returning guest super producer, Casey

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Speaker 1: the Khan pegro Kh a n Yes, very important. Also,

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Speaker 1: most importantly, you are you. You are here that makes

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Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. Today's episode

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Speaker 1: is a bit of a rabbit hole for us. I

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Speaker 1: mean every episode's a bit of a rabbit hole for

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Speaker 1: everyone involved. But we have a little bit of backstory

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Speaker 1: here in a previous episode of this show, we explored

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Speaker 1: this strange, ongoing and likely doomed quest to find the

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Speaker 1: grave of Jengis Khan, and we also discovered that as

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Speaker 1: the correct pronunciation.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Genghis Khan is now Jengis Khan, like like Djenga,

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Speaker 3: like the game No No, No, that's Carl Tart.

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Speaker 1: And along the way, we learned that not only is

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Speaker 1: it's nearly impossible for anyone to find the cons actual

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Speaker 1: resting place, not only is it maybe possible that people

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Speaker 1: know where it is and will never share that information,

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Speaker 1: but we learned a lesson that Matt, you and I

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Speaker 1: learned years and years ago when we looked at lost civilizations,

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Speaker 1: and that is that this species on the whole is

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Speaker 1: just terrible at holding on to or remembering anything. We've

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Speaker 1: lost the location of tons of other immensely important historical figures.

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Speaker 1: And sure, sometimes that's through honest, boneheaded mistakes, moments of

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Speaker 1: instability and confusion as empires rise and fall, and in

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Speaker 1: some other cases it's on purpose, it's through purposeful obscucation.

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Speaker 1: But before we explore all the famous, incredibly crucial historical

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Speaker 1: figures who have disappeared from the modern day, we have to.

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Speaker 1: We have to admit that there's some deceptive number play

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Speaker 1: at work here. When you think about it, folks, most

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Speaker 1: people's tombs are lost. Over ninety percent of people's tombs

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Speaker 1: are lost in the big picture. But what do we

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Speaker 1: mean when we say that here are the facts.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's a combination of quite a few different factors.

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Speaker 4: But overall there are two really important things that really

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Speaker 4: are stick in the craw of your Laura Crofts of

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Speaker 4: the world.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: First, tombs were expensive, and honestly that's not any different today.

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Speaker 4: If you want like a fancy burial or some kind

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Speaker 4: of mausoleum or a plot. You know, land is scarce,

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Speaker 4: lots of people die. You know, it's quite an expense

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Speaker 4: unless you just want to let go the cheap route.

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Speaker 4: And even then you got to pay for a damn arn.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, funerals are a racket in this I can't recall

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Speaker 1: whether we've done an episode on this yet, but funerals

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Speaker 1: are very much a racket, at least in the West.

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Speaker 4: And you know, if your family is in the funereal business,

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Speaker 4: I know there's the whole notion that it is a comfort,

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Speaker 4: it is a service you are providing. That's one way

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Speaker 4: to look at it, but there is absolutely money to

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Speaker 4: be made, and people are often kind of swindled into

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Speaker 4: overpaying four things in memory of their loved one or

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Speaker 4: as some kind of tribute to them when I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It's it's the old Brenees thing that we talked about

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Speaker 3: in episode one. Guys create the need, well, yeah, create

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Speaker 3: the need and then don't be swayed. As the consumer

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Speaker 3: or the person going through some kind of traumatic emotional thing,

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Speaker 3: you can't be swayed by those pleas to your emotion.

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Speaker 4: So a point being this remains true today, but throughout

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Speaker 4: the course of history, the vast majority of people were

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Speaker 4: buried in much more modest structures, or in some cases

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Speaker 4: the body was just burned. That was back when you

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Speaker 4: could burn your own loved ones. Now you can't do

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Speaker 4: that anymore.

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Speaker 2: I mean you can't get hot. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair, man.

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Speaker 3: Geez, that smell really gives it away.

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Speaker 1: Or there were things like sky burial, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, where the funereal process becomes more important than

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Speaker 1: the physical resting site.

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Speaker 4: Isn't that kind of coming back. Isn't there such a

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Speaker 4: thing as like green burials or modern sky burials.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about modern sky burials, but green burials

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Speaker 1: are definitely huge. And in our home state of Georgia

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Speaker 1: here in the US, there is a nearby Catholic monastery

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Speaker 1: that practice that's one of the only two places I

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Speaker 1: believe in the United States that practices green burial. And

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Speaker 1: that's a good observation to know, because with green burial,

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Speaker 1: the idea is that ultimately everything involved in the burial,

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Speaker 1: from the box, to the wrappings around the corpse, to

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Speaker 1: the corpse itself will just become part of the.

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Speaker 4: Soil, leave no trace, no gravesite left behind.

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Speaker 1: And that's how many many people ended their lives, right.

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Speaker 1: They were maybe in some cultures, thrown into the sea,

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Speaker 1: were in some unfortunate places.

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Speaker 2: People just rotted where they fell, that's right.

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Speaker 4: And as we said a minute ago, there's also the

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Speaker 4: issue of scarcity of burial sites because there are just

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Speaker 4: so many people.

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Speaker 1: There are so many people, especially if we look over

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Speaker 1: the long term. All right, let's do something very cheerful

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Speaker 1: and dive into some of the death statistics, the statistics

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Speaker 1: of morbidity or fatalities. We were able to find, in

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Speaker 1: a very rough way, the number of people who have

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Speaker 1: died ever, Like, not from nineteen fifty on, not from

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Speaker 1: seventeen seventy, whatever on.

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Speaker 3: But it's up until twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 1: It's up until twenty fifteen. But I messed with the

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Speaker 1: math a little, oh okay, got it to twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 3: Oh awesome.

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Speaker 1: So, according to the Population Research Bureau, modern Homo sapiens,

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Speaker 1: meaning people who were more or less like all of

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Speaker 1: us listening now, are this hot, new fangled Homo sapien

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Speaker 1: stick to the earth about fifty thousand years ago, and

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Speaker 1: since then, more than one hundred and eight billion members

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Speaker 1: of our species have been born. That's a rough number

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Speaker 1: because again, we have virtually no demographic data for ninety

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Speaker 1: nine percent of the span of human existence. Forty nine

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Speaker 1: thousand years ago, people weren't like, hey, let's get the

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Speaker 1: tribe together and figure out everybody's average age, interest and

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Speaker 1: preference for you know, type of food, type of leisure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they weren't so much into analytics back then.

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Speaker 2: Surprisingly not these days.

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Speaker 3: We can't get enough of them, correct, but we did.

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Speaker 3: We did find a pretty accurate number, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Man.

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Speaker 1: If we do a little simple math, we can find

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Speaker 1: some astonishing things so let's take a fairly accurate number

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Speaker 1: of people living on the planet today. That's seven point

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Speaker 1: seven billion. Again very rough, because longtime listeners, if you

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Speaker 1: remember an Earth earlier episode, Matt, you actually pulled up

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Speaker 1: the world population clock and we looked at how many

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Speaker 1: people were born and died just in the forty five

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Speaker 1: minutes that we spent doing the episode.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember the exact number, but it was somewhere

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Speaker 3: around ten thousand that were added while we recorded the other.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that's true, that's true. So welcome if you're listening.

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Speaker 1: So all we have to do is a little bit

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Speaker 1: of subtraction. Take that seven point seven billion away from

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Speaker 1: the one hundred and eight billion who have ever been born,

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Speaker 1: and we arrive at this.

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Speaker 3: Number around one hundred billion, three hundred million human beings

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Speaker 3: that have died on this.

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Speaker 1: Planet overall, just on the in the course of this

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Speaker 1: ugly brutal thing called human life on Earth. And so

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Speaker 1: with this in mind, we can we can easily see

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Speaker 1: that we don't know where all one hundred billion, three

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Speaker 1: hundred million graves are, right, and many, many, many many

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Speaker 1: of those people didn't get a grave at all, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you said, no many were probably burned or disposed

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Speaker 1: of according to the cultural values or moray's of the time.

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Speaker 1: And when we think about this, it means it's reasonable

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Speaker 1: to assume that many people got lost in the historical shuffle.

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Speaker 1: As we said, empires rise, they changed names, the rulers

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Speaker 1: change families, names of cities change. It's Istanbul, not Constantinople.

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Speaker 1: And that's nobody's business, but it's sort of everybody's, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And not for nothing did Shelley write the poem Osymandias,

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Speaker 1: which is great?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, look on my works, ye mighty, and disperse

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Speaker 3: all of this sand, look at it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's a poem that I hope is familiar

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Speaker 1: with a lot of people. It's quoted to great effect

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Speaker 1: in the Ballad of Buster Scrut recently debuting on Netflix.

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Speaker 4: Oh, in the Super Bummer episode right, Super Bummer vignette.

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Speaker 2: But the guy does a great excerpt of it, he

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Speaker 2: really does. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I say this every time we bring up Ozzy Mandius.

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Speaker 3: It was my grandfather's favorite poem, and he would recite

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Speaker 3: it all the time because he was beautifully obsessed with

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Speaker 3: his own mortality, and he would just constantly talk about

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Speaker 3: Ozzy Mandias.

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Speaker 4: Were you ever like grandpa? You're kind of freaking me out.

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Speaker 3: No, it was this, I don't know. It was a

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Speaker 3: really charming thing about him in a weird way.

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Speaker 2: Did he have a good voice for it?

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Speaker 3: Oh he did.

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Speaker 4: My grandpa just drank and grunted.

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Speaker 1: Well, perhaps he was reciting something.

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Speaker 4: Too in his head was happening. He didn't share it

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Speaker 4: with me.

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Speaker 1: So so we know that. Unfortunately, we're never going to

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Speaker 1: find the resting place of most people on the planet.

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Speaker 1: That's that's just the way things have shaken out for

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Speaker 1: us so far. But what about the people who were

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Speaker 1: a big deal? This is interesting what you're saying, Matt,

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Speaker 1: about your grandfather having this fascinating obsession with his own mortality.

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Speaker 1: Because virtually every culture in our history, in one way

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Speaker 1: or another, venerates the dead. Death is up there with

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Speaker 1: birth one of the huge inexplicable things.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Tons of people personally believe that they know or have

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Speaker 1: an inkling of what happens, right, and some people agree

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Speaker 1: and many people don't. But no one has come up

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Speaker 1: with something that everyone can get on board with, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's this mystery, and we do our best to

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Speaker 1: honor or remember our loved ones, or in some cases

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Speaker 1: and some gory cases, to vilify the people we despise.

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Speaker 1: And each year hundreds of millions of people make pilgrimages

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Speaker 1: to one resting place or another. It could be like

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Speaker 1: Jim Morrison's grave in Europe, right, it could be. It

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Speaker 1: could be a resting place of lenin you know.

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Speaker 3: Or yeah, And it's usually a famous or powerful person,

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Speaker 3: or a famously powerful person, yes.

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Speaker 1: Yes, or a powerfully famous person. So it seems reasonable

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Speaker 1: then that, since since our species pays so much attention

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Speaker 1: to this, it seems reasonable to assume that we can

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Speaker 1: at least keep track of, if not everybody, the most

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Speaker 1: important people who ever lived.

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Speaker 4: Right, you'd think, of course, Nah, it turns out no, okay.

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Speaker 3: End of show, Well credits.

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Speaker 1: We'll tell you why this is the case after a

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 2: Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 1: Not even counting the normal people like you and I,

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Speaker 1: like everybody who's ever.

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Speaker 3: Lived, the over one hundred billion normal people.

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Speaker 1: Right right, we have lost tons and tons and tons

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Speaker 1: of incredibly influential historical figures over the ages. We can

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Speaker 1: divvy it up into a couple of rough categories. Spoiler alert,

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Speaker 1: we do not have the wherewithal to go into every

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Speaker 1: single famous person who has disappeared or been hidden from history,

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Speaker 1: but we can touch on some interesting stories that are

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Speaker 1: not Jengis Khan. We've got stories of misplaced corpses, stories

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Speaker 1: of rumored burial sites, and these are old, old rumors too,

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Speaker 1: as we'll find. And then we also have stories of

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Speaker 1: people who were purposely buried in secret.

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Speaker 3: So let's get let's get it started with all. Alexander

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Speaker 3: the Great, let's get it started in here. Yep, Alexander

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Speaker 3: the third of Macedon, Is that correct? Great?

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Speaker 4: Is that is a different way of saying Macedonia.

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Speaker 3: It became Messay's age Masadon. It was one of the

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Speaker 3: world's This this gentleman was one of the world's greatest

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Speaker 3: military minds. We've probably heard of him just from classes

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Speaker 3: way way back in the day. Maybe you're in one

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Speaker 3: right now listening to this. If so, shame on you

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Speaker 3: put your phone away.

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Speaker 4: Confused with our amazing cohort alex the Great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, But in this gentleman Alexander the Third's short life,

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Speaker 3: he established the largest empire the ancient world had ever

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Speaker 3: seen up to that point, and it lasted that way

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Speaker 3: for a while it was the Great Empire.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so weird when you read about these people.

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Speaker 1: His his moniker is not ironic. He was Alexander the Great.

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Speaker 1: It was not like a little John name. And I

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Speaker 1: think about conquerors like this every time I do something

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Speaker 1: really dumb, like this guy was died in his thirties,

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Speaker 1: took over most of the known world at the time,

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Speaker 1: and two weeks ago I fell asleep trying to put

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Speaker 1: on a pair of pants.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean. It makes you think, it.

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Speaker 3: Really really does.

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Speaker 4: I just recently learned, you know how much I love

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Speaker 4: acronym's goat Greatest of all time. Yeah, so he could

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Speaker 4: have been alex He's the original goat. Alexander the Goat.

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm gonna call him.

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Speaker 3: This is it, This is it. Well, here's the thing.

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Speaker 3: Alexander the Great was just a regular old guy doing

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Speaker 3: all this conquering with his giant armies, you know, his

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Speaker 3: numerous giant armies that roamed the planet.

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Speaker 1: Died feeling like a failure. Yeah, even though he did

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Speaker 1: name a city after himself.

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Speaker 4: Just goes to show, just goes to show. We all

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Speaker 4: have imposter syndrome. All of us. No matter what you know,

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Speaker 4: no matter how much you achieve, how much you conquer,

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Speaker 4: it's never enough unless you get right with yourself and

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Speaker 4: love yourself.

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Speaker 1: And so far everybody has died no matter what they do.

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Speaker 1: It turns out life is a terminal condition.

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Speaker 3: Except for that one guy. You remember that's a different

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Speaker 3: years ago or so. You remember we're talking about spatist

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Speaker 3: one guy. I can't remember his name, all right, So

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Speaker 3: oh and Henrietta lax Ah, there you go. Immortality via

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Speaker 3: cancer cells. Okay, So here's here's one of the big things.

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Speaker 3: It's not exactly known, or at least as debated, how

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Speaker 3: he died, but it is known when he died.

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Speaker 1: M Yeah, yeah, three twenty three BCE and Babylon. But

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Speaker 1: but you're raising an interesting point, Matt. We don't know

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Speaker 1: too much about how we died. Was it malaria, was

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Speaker 1: it poisoning? Was it West Nile virus. There's a somewhat idealized,

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Speaker 1: romanticized account that says he died of heartbreak.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's not a thing.

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Speaker 2: People have died of heartbreak.

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Speaker 4: They need to suck it up, and you know, start

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Speaker 4: going to the gym.

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Speaker 3: You know, you've got all this advice for these ancient people, they.

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Speaker 1: Really do in this time, in this time in human civilization,

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Speaker 1: just surviving was like being at the gym all the time.

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying, though, Like, you know, with everything

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Speaker 4: that was getting thrown at you, how are you gonna

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Speaker 4: die of a broken heart? That just sounds like giving

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Speaker 4: up to me.

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Speaker 2: That's surprisingly cold.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 4: Hey, listen, I've been through the ringer this year, okay,

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Speaker 4: last year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I see, I see what You're.

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Speaker 4: Come out the other side though, hear knew me.

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Speaker 1: What's that quote, be kind for everyone is facing I'll

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Speaker 1: do it again, be kind for everyone is facing a

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Speaker 1: great battle. It's one of Chuck Bryant's favorite quotes.

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Speaker 2: Actually, that's a good point.

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Speaker 4: It's also one of those things about being It's like

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Speaker 4: you could rephrase that to be nice to the person

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Speaker 4: everyone you meet, because they could be dealing with something

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Speaker 4: that you do not know.

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Speaker 3: About, yeah, or you know the golden rule, Just treat

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Speaker 3: them like you want to be treated.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So what happens?

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Speaker 1: So okay, So there's this idea debatable probably not true,

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Speaker 1: that he died of good old fashioned grief over the

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Speaker 1: death of his best friend ifestion.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I heard via the internet that the

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Speaker 3: h is silent, but I know Hefestianfestian expert.

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Speaker 1: So what happens though, like I, regardless of how he dies,

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Speaker 1: he dies around three twenty b CE.

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Speaker 2: So what happens after that, Well.

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Speaker 3: I mean his corpse. He's the guy that conquered most

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Speaker 3: of the world, at least in the known world, as

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Speaker 3: we said, and his body is going to be venerated

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Speaker 3: in some way in probably some you know, grandiose fashion.

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Speaker 3: That's just what's going to happen. No matter what. His

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Speaker 3: body's going to be an artifact for what comes after

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Speaker 3: him now that the leader is dead, because there's going

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Speaker 3: to be a power struggle, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because in this case, his body becomes

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Speaker 1: a symbol. In some ways, possessing his body gives an

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Speaker 1: implicit endorsement of your right to rule.

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Speaker 3: Almost like oh that is so strange treat it almost

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Speaker 3: has an air in a way, or being an heir

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Speaker 3: to it because you have it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, possession being nine tenths of the law, and

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Speaker 1: so on.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 1: So first his body's mummified and for two years it

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Speaker 1: lay in state in a golden sarcophagus, and eventually the

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Speaker 1: people were fighting about where he should be placed, where

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Speaker 1: he should be buried, make a decision, and they decide

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Speaker 1: to bury him in Greece, in the first capital of

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Speaker 1: the Macedonian kings, whoa in.

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Speaker 3: A place called Egay. And I again the Internet says

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Speaker 3: I should pronounce it that way. It's spelled ae Gae.

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Speaker 3: We're just going with it.

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Speaker 2: But the plan goes arise, isn't that correct? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? According to ancient sources, his his hearse that was

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Speaker 3: actually you know, his body was traveling in was hijacked

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Speaker 3: of all things near Damascus, and his corpse was taken

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Speaker 3: to Egypt, and it was first I guess it was

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Speaker 3: first taken to Memphis in Egypt, not the home of

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Speaker 3: the other king.

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Speaker 2: Right away before Elvis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then from there things start to get fuzzy. Sometime

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Speaker 1: between two ninety eight and two eighty three BCE, his

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Speaker 1: body is taken to Alexandria, the city we mentioned earlier

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Speaker 1: that he founded and named after himself, and then from

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Speaker 1: there he gets disinterred and put in at least two

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Speaker 1: other places, the most famous being a mausolem called the Soma.

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Speaker 4: The Soma which I believe is a isn't that an

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Speaker 4: herb that kind of makes you sleepy? And I think

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Speaker 4: there's a antipsychotic medication called Soma, or at least it's

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Speaker 4: some kind of Valium esque type drug.

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Speaker 1: It's a drug in Brave New World by Aldus Huxley.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly what I was thinking. Maybe it's not even real.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if the real drug was named after the

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Speaker 4: drug in Huxley, Because there really is a drug called Soma.

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Speaker 3: I think the real drug is a muscle relaxer. I

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Speaker 3: think you want to say, I've been prescribed it before

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Speaker 3: but didn't take it. It's also it's also a wonderful,

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Speaker 3: wonderful I like. I like using this word for this

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Speaker 3: horror game, like a psychological horror game.

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Speaker 4: It's also a quite good Smashing Pumpkins song from before

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Speaker 4: Billy Corgan lost his damn mind.

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Speaker 2: Is a brand name of a real drug.

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Speaker 3: It's Kara Sofra Doll. That's the one that is the

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Speaker 3: one to.

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Speaker 4: All that aside drugs, Smashing Pumpkins, imaginary drugs. This is

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Speaker 4: where in this mausoleum, the Soma the looting began, as

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Speaker 4: is wont to happen with graves. It's basically like a

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Speaker 4: big old target in the ground saying hey, free stuff, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: if you want to get your hands dirty and possibly

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Speaker 4: your soul.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, and you know, Alexander found himself or his body

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Speaker 3: at least inside a giant golden sarcophagus. I believe we

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Speaker 3: mentioned very inconspicuous. Yeah, and what do you do when

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Speaker 3: you have a giant thing made out of gold? You

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Speaker 3: melt it down, of course you do. And that happened,

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Speaker 3: but it got replaced with like a glass sarcophagus, or

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Speaker 3: at least a glass container or some kind of crystalline container,

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Speaker 3: which is fascinating to me. I really would have liked

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Speaker 3: to have seen that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's strange because you have to wonder did

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Speaker 1: they decide did they decide that gold, being you know,

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Speaker 1: a currency at times today, is decide that was just

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Speaker 1: asking for trouble to make another golden thing, and they decided, well,

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Speaker 1: glass is nice, and glass and crystal are expensive, but

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Speaker 1: no one will steal it to try to pay for things.

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Speaker 3: That I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And also,

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Speaker 3: you know, whoever is running the show now, you need

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Speaker 3: a lot of gold and money to pay for all

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Speaker 3: the war that you're waging, right, because we're empire building

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Speaker 3: here people. Yeah, I mean it's not cheap.

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Speaker 2: It's game on.

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Speaker 1: Even Cleopatra, who don't worry, shows up later in this story,

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Speaker 1: took gold from this tomb to pay for her war

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Speaker 1: against Octavian. There you go, and the things continued to

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Speaker 1: get worse, which is kind of the story of humanity.

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Speaker 4: Oh man, no question about it. In three sixty CE,

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Speaker 4: there were a series of unfortunate events that included warfare, rioting,

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Speaker 4: an earthquake, a tsunami. All of this threatened or possibly

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Speaker 4: even destroyed the tomb. By the time Saint John Chrysostom

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Speaker 4: visited in four hundred CE, the tomb was lost, and

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Speaker 4: ever since then no one has been able to find

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Speaker 4: the resting place of one of history's greatest conquerors.

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Speaker 3: And Alexander the Great rip is just out there somewhere.

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Speaker 3: His remains exist because it takes a long time for

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Speaker 3: bones in the human body to break down.

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Speaker 1: Yep, it's there, So traces of him may well be

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Speaker 1: somewhere in some form, right, but he is now Also,

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Speaker 1: it's fair to call him Alexander the Lost. Searches continue

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Speaker 1: for his remains or his tomb to date, but no

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Speaker 1: one has found it. One thing we can say, and

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Speaker 1: I don't want to sound too cynical about this, is

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Speaker 1: that this this makes a lot of careers. The search

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Speaker 1: for these sorts of lost sites can literally change the

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Speaker 1: course of human history. And so as we're speaking, if

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Speaker 1: you're an archaeologist or a budding archaeologist researching this or

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Speaker 1: something like this, we want to hear from you. Let

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Speaker 1: us know what your search, your particular search is, and

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Speaker 1: let us know what you think your fellow listeners would

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Speaker 1: be surprised to learn about it. In the meantime, let's

439
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: fast forward.

440
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 3: I just right here before we get into it. I

441
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 3: watched a movie with my wife last night, and I

442
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 3: couldn't tell you the name of it right now. It

443
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 3: just showed up on one of the streaming sites and

444
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: she had wanted to see it. It's all about this

445
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: woman who goes back to college with her daughter to

446
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: become an archaeologist, and I just happened. I had no

447
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: idea that that was the plot.

448
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 4: Is it a heartwarming rom com it?

449
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 3: I guess it's kind of bad, but.

450
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 2: It is a psychological thriller. No.

451
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 3: I couldn't even tell you who's in it or what

452
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 3: it was.

453
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 2: It was.

454
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 3: Not bird Bucks. Oh, I can't believe. I can't even

455
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 3: think of it right now.

456
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 2: Is it police Academy for that's what it was?

457
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: Okay, anyway, it just happened to have an archaeologist archaeology

458
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 3: B plot line that may be very happy nice.

459
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: It's fascinating. I have a subscription to Archaeology Magazine. Well, okay, look,

460
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: I mind it for possible episodes in the future. I'm

461
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: just gonna be honest.

462
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 4: I inexplicably have a subscription to Maxim. It just started coming.

463
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 4: I can't get it to stop.

464
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 1: I think that's something that happens in the magazine industry

465
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: that I'd love to look into, because I had a

466
00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 1: former girlfriend who inexplicably began receiving a subscribe to Moohair magazine,

467
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: and Moohair Magazine is a lifestyle fashion interest thing for

468
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: the Latino population in the US North America, I guess.

469
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: And we couldn't get them to stop sending it. Like

470
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: I emailed them. I sent an actual letter and they

471
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: still kept sending Moohair.

472
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 3: Wow.

473
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: As far as I know, you know, the my ex

474
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: and I are on good terms, so I could probably

475
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: write to her and ask her she might still be

476
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: getting mouhair like they locked it down.

477
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 2: There was no way out there.

478
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 4: It's like she's moved three times, still follows her wherever

479
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 4: she goes.

480
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have that with Rolling Stone. Somehow my wife

481
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 3: still gets Rolling Stone sent to our house. We have

482
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 3: not paid for that. I don't even know how long

483
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 3: we should look into this. This is actually I think

484
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: we might have just uncovered a new conspiracy. Is it

485
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: worth sending us these magazines for the advertising that we

486
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: are potentially looking at.

487
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 4: That just just to just claim circulation, right, just to

488
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 4: boost That's fine, I'm fine.

489
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 2: I love magazines.

490
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: I canceled a lot of subscriptions because we receive them

491
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: here at work and I read a ton of them.

492
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: But uh but anyway, yeah, but anyway that that may

493
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: well be a future episode. Tell us about the magazine

494
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: subscriptions that you are non consensually receiving, please, and and

495
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: we'll hatch this conspiracy with you if you need it.

496
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: It's a bit unethical, but if you have a subscription

497
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: that you want people to think you are non consensually receiving,

498
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: right to us, and we will totally pretend that you

499
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: are non consentually receiving it beautiful? Someone's like, no, I

500
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: hate a Horseback monthly.

501
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: So it's there's so many weird magazines. Yeah, gosh, okay, yeah,

502
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: we're going to do an episode on that.

503
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 3: Let's let's let's definitely do that. And let's also jump

504
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 3: forward to a really cool figure in history, mister Thomas Paine.

505
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: Yes, let's bring the pain, Matt. What's what's the gist

506
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: about this guy?

507
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 3: Well, he's an He's an Englishman, an England born political philosopher.

508
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: He's a writer. You certainly have heard about him. He

509
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 3: supported the revolutionary causes in both America and in Europe.

510
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 3: He's perhaps best known for the old seventeen seventy six

511
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 3: essay Common Sense, along with other works such as The

512
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 3: American Crisis, Rights of Man and the Age of Reason,

513
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 3: which is a really great read actually, and I didn't

514
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: expect it to be when I cracked that thing open.

515
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very readable.

516
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: It's strange because I think we sometimes have a stereotype

517
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: about things written in English in that period of time,

518
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: where they're going to be dry, and every sentence is

519
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: going to be three paragraphs long.

520
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: Yes, and you're not going to understand most of it.

521
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 4: Largely responsible for the philosophy behind enlightenment thinking and also

522
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 4: our monument buddies, the Georgia guidestones.

523
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

524
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 4: Pain in flies on those guys huge.

525
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 3: They were huge and up pain that is a weird

526
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: mixed accent. And again, my grandfather. The reason why I

527
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 3: read it is because my grandfather, old Papa, brought it,

528
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 3: brought it to my attention.

529
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: It's a it's a good read, you know, And I

530
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: know I know these the idea. There are certain trigger

531
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: words people here that make them not want to read things.

532
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: One of those is essay ye. The other is you know,

533
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: I think reason or rights. But he was writing to

534
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: communicate with the common people, you know what I mean.

535
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: He wasn't trying to do fancy acts of rhetorical gymnastics

536
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: or acrobatics. But eventually, despite all the great things that

537
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: he did, he also spoiler alert died.

538
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 3: Oh man, I was hoping it was going to go

539
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 3: the other way.

540
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: He's outside of the studio right now, Matt waiting to

541
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: talk to him.

542
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: I only wish.

543
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: About his multi level marketing scheme.

544
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 3: Oh god, it's kind of a good news bad news

545
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: es Central oils again Pain. So he died on June eighth,

546
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 3: eighteen nine, in New York City, and today he is

547
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: the only founding father that does not have an official

548
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: gravesite that you can go and visit. There Isn't that crazy?

549
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: I'm so surprised.

550
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 3: Why, let's talk about what happened.

551
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 4: Let's so, he was first buried in New Rochelle, New York,

552
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 4: on his farm after the Quakers refused him, in a

553
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 4: town that was very, very hostile towards this man.

554
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he criticized the Quakers during his lifetime for

555
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: their pacifism and for some of their other political beliefs.

556
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: That's right.

557
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 4: And in eighteen nineteen, a pain admirer named William Cobbett,

558
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 4: himself a Democrat, a Democratic advocate rather from England, saw

559
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: the disrespect that Paine received where he was buried and

560
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 4: decided to dig him up. Took it upon himself to

561
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 4: dig the man up. Just grabbed a shovel, just grabbed

562
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 4: a shovel, heartwise, the heart ones, that's true, and to

563
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 4: take him to England where he would be treated with

564
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 4: more respect. And he wanted to help spur the movement

565
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 4: for democracy there. So I guess he saw this as

566
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 4: sort of a symbolic act.

567
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, again, using a dead body for almost for definitely

568
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: a political reason, and.

569
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: Did it work.

570
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: Not really, There's still a monarchy in that area of

571
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: the world. There's a parliament, sure, yeah, a House of

572
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: lords and a House of Commons.

573
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: That should tell you what you need to know.

574
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: Well, here in the States we basically just have two

575
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 4: houses of lords. So at least I don't I don't know.

576
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 4: Isn't that kind of the same thing. The representative represented

577
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 4: the people, which would be the commons, and then the

578
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 4: senators are more like the lords.

579
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: Interesting, the senators on paper are also supposed to represent

580
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: the people.

581
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 3: That's fair, haha.

582
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:49,479
Speaker 1: Psych So, over the years, Pain's body was divided, it

583
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: was split, the bones were circulated across the planet. People

584
00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: were making relics of his remains, and now we have

585
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: we don't know where the bones are. We don't know

586
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: where pieces of this guy's body are. There's a Thomas

587
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: Pain foundation that has some of his hair and a

588
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: bit of his brain. They admit to owning that, but

589
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: there were unverified rumors that some of Thomas Pain's bones

590
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: were cut into get this guy's buttons and sold to

591
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: finance the revolution nice, But thing is kind of like

592
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: in the Middle Ages when people would unscrupulously sell, you know,

593
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: slivers of the Jesus the cross on which Jesus Christ

594
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: was crucified. There are enough slivers of that stuff to

595
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: make a forest essentially.

596
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 4: Or it's like those Passion of the Christ necklaces.

597
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, or any and all holy water ever.

598
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: Well, holy water, you can you could just make holy water.

599
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying.

600
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: Was it you we were having I was having this

601
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: conversation with somebody about hunting vampires. In vampire films, there's

602
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: almost always a priest, right, yeah, And the priest has

603
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: the ability to bless water, making it holy and therefore

604
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: dangerous for vampires. Why don't they just like bless a

605
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: water treatment system or like a storm or something just

606
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: a well, yeah, how does it work to start getting buckets?

607
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 2: Well?

608
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: Anyway, there, there you go, vampire producers, check out our show.

609
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: And now that now that the Universal Life Church of

610
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 3: California exists, literally all of us have a massive defense

611
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: of it against vampires because we can just get ordained

612
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 3: with in a few minutes.

613
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 4: Isn't that where your ordination is from?

614
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, and me as well exactly, it's the only

615
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 3: one that is not ordained. Yes, we've talked about this.

616
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 4: Let's get on this train, but I guess I got

617
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 4: to get on the ordained train.

618
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: Casey is ordained. Look at him, he's in he's in

619
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 3: three or four different sects that he's a minister for.

620
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: And I think a priest, a priestess, and what was

621
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 3: the other thing.

622
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 4: A shaman?

623
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: A mage? He's a mage. What are you making this up?

624
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: Yes?

625
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So.

626
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 1: Back to this idea of counterfeiting relics very common in

627
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: ancient days and surprisingly common still in the eighteen hundreds.

628
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: There were more buttons that were purportedly Thomas Paine's bones

629
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: that were sold than could have come from ten bodies.

630
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: You could build a jam band off the amount of

631
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: buttons sold, well, the skeletons of a jam band.

632
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want It makes you wonder who else was

633
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 3: in that jam band that ended up as a Thomas

634
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 3: pain button.

635
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 2: Yes. These were also the days of resurrection, then, weren't they.

636
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 4: Do you think that any of those are still around

637
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 4: and they're confirmed to be pain buttons around?

638
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: Yes? Confirmed?

639
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: No, because how could you, well you could there are

640
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: some forms of testing could you to verify it, because

641
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: there are rumors of a leg bone hanging in a

642
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: wall of a tavern in England, and then there are

643
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: other place that would be Thomas Pain rights large enough

644
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: sample where you could try to do some investigatory thing.

645
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 4: You could probably at least narrow down the timeframe and

646
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 4: the region.

647
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: Is that kind of what you're saying, right, You could

648
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: do some analyses that would indicate that there are also

649
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: some pieces that were claimed in Europe. It's possible that

650
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 1: the skull has been located in Wales and then later

651
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: moved to Australia, but to the point no testing has

652
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: confirmed this, and today it seems that Pain's remains are

653
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: largely scattered amidst various grizzly collections and some unscrupulous private collectors.

654
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 2: There are more of these people than you think. My friends.

655
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: Likely have pieces of Thomas Pain held in a secret

656
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: collection today, sort of the way that a particular secret

657
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: society here in the United States collects skulls that is wow,

658
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: creatively named the Skull and Bones.

659
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 2: By the way, that's who we're talking about.

660
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. Just sitting there, do you think maybe

661
00:35:59,320 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 3: they have it?

662
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: I don't know.

663
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, but you know what, honestly, I would

664
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: not be that surprised if they had.

665
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: A piece of it.

666
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 3: It would make so much sense. Oh yeah, that's Yale.

667
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 3: Oh dude, they totally have something in there. Hey. By

668
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 3: the way, twenty three and Me, if you're listening, just

669
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 3: whoever you.

670
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 2: Are, you are, I saw this news.

671
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 3: Just go ahead and just get on there and just

672
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 3: start just testing them bones especially, go to the skull

673
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 3: and bones first.

674
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: Oh then, I thought you were talking about the twenty

675
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: three a Me news that just came out now here

676
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: about what is?

677
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: Okay?

678
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: I super producers, could we get a breaking news sound cue?

679
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: So twenty three and Me has teamed up with a

680
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: drug manufacturer, pharmaceutical giant named.

681
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: Glaxo like Smith Klein.

682
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: Uh huh, Glaxo Smith Clin.

683
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: They're giving the they're giving away the DNA test results

684
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: of the five million something customers of twenty three and Me.

685
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: What Glaxos Smith Clein will use this data to create

686
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: research and create new drugs.

687
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

688
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: What called it called? It said it was going to happen.

689
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I gotta tell Jason, our executive producer,

690
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 3: because he totally just did that.

691
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: Well, go ahead and preemptively thank him for possibly contributing

692
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: to important medical research.

693
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 4: There you go, there you go against his will. Well,

694
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, he clicked the terms of service. You know,

695
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 4: once you do that, it's like you don't know what's

696
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 4: going to happen.

697
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 2: That's true.

698
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 3: That told us, They told us in their offices they

699
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 3: wouldn't do this.

700
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: So should we take a little break before we get

701
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 4: to rumored burial places?

702
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: Sounds good. Let's do it.

703
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 4: And we are back, as Matt would say, with no delay.

704
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 4: He said it once and I was taken by it.

705
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 4: I don't know what it means, but I like it

706
00:37:59,280 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 4: very much.

707
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can hear. This is a very dry track.

708
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: There aren't a lot of effects on it. Definitely no delay.

709
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 4: Also, it means that we're getting right to it. Rumored

710
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 4: burial places number one with a bullet on the list.

711
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 4: The Queen Nephrititi of ancient Egypt. She was a queen

712
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 4: of Egypt, the wife of the pharaoh Akanatan, who ruled

713
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 4: in the mid fourteenth century BCE. So before Nefertiti and Akanatan,

714
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 4: Egypt had been a polytheistic civilization worshiping an entire pantheon

715
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 4: of anthropomorphic animal deities, ranging from the crocodile god Sobek,

716
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 4: who was depicted often as a man with the head

717
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 4: of a crocodile, a staff in one hand and an

718
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 4: ank that Egyptian symboled a little loop with the cross

719
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 4: through it in the other, and with a weirdly a

720
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 4: giant golden temple acting as some sort of larger than

721
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 4: life crown sitting atop his scaly head. And then you

722
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 4: had like God's like Anubis, who has depicted the god

723
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 4: of the Dead, who has depicted very much the same

724
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 4: way as Sobec, was only with the head of a

725
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 4: jackal and a last no golden temple headpiece.

726
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love I love the idea of all the

727
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 3: gods being a person with a different animal head. That

728
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: is really I actually really like that. But here's the thing.

729
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 4: Akan Natan and his queen thought. This whole worshiping multiple

730
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 4: animal headed gods was for the literal birds, not not

731
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: to be confused with the ibis headed god of wisdom Thoth,

732
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 4: which is so fun to say Thoth. It's just I

733
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 4: got a thch on the front end and a thch

734
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 4: on the back end.

735
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I love that. I really do. Like EBIs

736
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 3: or what is it, Thoth is the god. I've seen

737
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 3: that in so many different places. Anyway, the Pharaoh thought

738
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 3: it would be a good, a better idea at least

739
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 3: to stick with. Just let's call it one god. This

740
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: will be easier. We can all, you know, know that

741
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 3: there's one singular force that we can worship. Let's say,

742
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 3: let's say the Sun, that giant orange thing that just

743
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 3: shoots light at us all the time and it makes

744
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 3: us warm and happy. That's a good thing to worship.

745
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: Let's do that seems legit.

746
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: It's important to note that the sun disc also known

747
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: as Attan, had already held a place in ancient Egyptian

748
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: religion and the state's way back to the Old Kingdom,

749
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: where it was worshiped as an aspect of the composite

750
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: god Raw A'mun Horus. And this is not to get

751
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: too into the weeds about it, but Raw represents the

752
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: daytime Sun I'mun, the son of the underworld Horus of course,

753
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: the rising Sun.

754
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,240
Speaker 3: I love the idea of a composite god.

755
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: That is so cool to me. It's really common in

756
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: the ancient world.

757
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but it's something we don't really think about everything.

758
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 4: Every god is kind of their own thing. Oh, although

759
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 4: it is kind of similar to the Trinity, like the Trinity, right.

760
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: The Monotheism. That's they didn't make that up out of

761
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: whole cloth.

762
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 4: Right, Monotheism being exactly where we're headed.

763
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: Right, So this is this is this is backstory that

764
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: we promise will deliver. So what what happens next? Because

765
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: you have to know this stuff about polytheism and monotheism, right.

766
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 4: Yes, Akannat and effort TD attempted with all their might

767
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 4: to obliterate all traces of we're gonna go Game of

768
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 4: Throne style and call them the old gods by defacing carvings, temples,

769
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 4: and hieroglyphics that depicted them.

770
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 3: And you know, this didn't go over so well with

771
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: you know, the general public that had been worshiping these

772
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 3: gods for so long.

773
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 4: That's right. And neither did it last particularly long, right, Bem.

774
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 2: That's right, it did not. It did not.

775
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: It wasn't as unsuccessful as New Coke when that came out,

776
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: but it was still pretty No, it was actually way

777
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 1: worse than New coke.

778
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 3: Or crystal pepsi.

779
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 4: Because I believe that Akinnatin rained for seventeen years, and

780
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 4: this whole worshiping the Sun god business came in about

781
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 4: three or four years into his reign, So that's kind

782
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 4: of a blip in ancient Egyptian history.

783
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: Right, And the people who came after Aka Natan did

784
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: their best to erase him and Nefertiti herself from official history.

785
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 2: And this is important.

786
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: So we don't talk about this as much as we

787
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: should in the modern day, but it is true that

788
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: the victors write the history textbooks you read, and they

789
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: are the ones who tell the stories of events in

790
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: the past.

791
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: And it is at least back.

792
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: Then, it was alarmingly easy to erase people from history,

793
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: and Stalin did it during his reign. These subsequent pharaohs

794
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 1: did it as well, and you can see why they

795
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: did it, whether or not you agree with them. It

796
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: is true that this could pose a clear and present

797
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: danger to their own legitimacy.

798
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, And Nefertiti went right along with this whole deal,

799
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 4: because she actually disappeared from the historical record before her

800
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 4: husband did, about twelve years into his so it's possible

801
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 4: that she might have died. There was a plague, as

802
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 4: we know, that swept through Egypt around this time. But

803
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 4: there are some Egyptologists who believe that she was actually

804
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 4: elevated to co regent and changed her name therefore kind

805
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 4: of slipped out of the historical record into a new role.

806
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 4: And then the name Nefertia disappeared, and she was named

807
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 4: something that sounded remarkably like Nefertiti. I can't remember exactly

808
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 4: what it was, but it was sort of a it

809
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 4: was almost like a permutation of the name Nefertiti. And

810
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 4: the thing is too, in a lot of the historical record,

811
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 4: or a lot of the depictions of she and her husband,

812
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 4: they were very much on the same level. She already

813
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 4: had a lot of power even before this possible elevation

814
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 4: to literal coregient like vice president or really I think

815
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 4: a co regent would be like fifty to fifty co ruler, right, oh, yeah,

816
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 4: so that's one possibility, But there's more. Many archaeologists believe

817
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 4: that she could have been buried in one of the

818
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 4: tombs of what's now called Amarna, which there's a new

819
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 4: capital city that Akanatan built during his reign.

820
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,959
Speaker 1: Whoa, right, Yeah, these tombs were plundered after Akinnaton's death,

821
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: so it is possible that never Titi could have been

822
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: reburied in the Valley of Kings. The thing is, people

823
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: will tell you that, no matter how much animosity there

824
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: was for her and her husband, no pharaoh would normally

825
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: deny a former ruler the burial accorded to their station,

826
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: even somebody that everybody hated, like Acnon.

827
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,919
Speaker 3: And here's something that we I don't think we've even

828
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 3: mentioned this yet. She had a very important steps on.

829
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 3: You may know himton Common Tuton Common, Yes, old king

830
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 3: Tut that we have discussed and before on this show

831
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 3: about the curse that existed for his tomb.

832
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I think inbreeding was the curse of

833
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: his lifetime. Have you seen the forensic analysis. Also, I

834
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: like to think of him as the originator of the

835
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: phrase tut tut.

836
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 3: There you go.

837
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan, like I like the single tut

838
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: that you do.

839
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 4: Ben. You said, that's very tout.

840
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: Yes, it is when something is very touch Yeah, when

841
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: something's touch well.

842
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 3: And the idea that she had such a famous and

843
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,760
Speaker 3: powerful son in law that perhaps her body was actually

844
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 3: you know, put in his tomb somewhere.

845
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 4: That's right. Not to mention the fact that he took

846
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 4: over after his father in law died, and he is

847
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 4: also the one that pretty much instantly started the process

848
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 4: of going back, taking Egypt back to the old polytheistic

849
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 4: ways and refurbishing all of those desecrated sites and monuments

850
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 4: and hieroglyphs and all of that business. But yes, you're

851
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 4: absolutely right this theory that Nephertiiti's body was possibly buried

852
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 4: in her son in law's tomb. There's one part of

853
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 4: it that is super interesting, is this idea that that

854
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 4: tomb may have actually been meant for Neffertiti in the

855
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 4: first place, but that Tutenkommon died unexpectedly quite young, the

856
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 4: boy king, right, because one piece of evidence behind this,

857
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 4: it's all it seems a little conjectury, but it's that

858
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 4: it was a much smaller tomb than some of the

859
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 4: other ones, and that if it was for a woman

860
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 4: they might have considered it diminutive less then, so they

861
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 4: might have made it smaller. But you could also argue

862
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 4: that it was for a boy, and that you could

863
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 4: say the same thing in that respect. But here's the thing.

864
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 4: This theory was put forth by an Egyptologist named Nicholas Reeve,

865
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 4: who's the director of the Amarna Royal Tombs Project. He

866
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 4: commissioned some radar scans of the site of Tuton Common's

867
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 4: tomb and they supposedly showed evidence of two secret chambers,

868
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 4: complete with masonry walls and quote, metallic and organic substances.

869
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 4: But there are other experts who aren't so sure that

870
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 4: this was definitive of what he wanted it to be.

871
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 3: Kind of yeah. And then of course, as soon as

872
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 3: a theory like that comes along, you've got somebody else

873
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 3: who comes along and says, well, I'm gonna do some scans,

874
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 3: and we're gonna or we're at least gonna relook at

875
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 3: the scans that we're done, see what we have here.

876
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 3: And according to this other group of scientists in this case,

877
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 3: it's Lawrence Conyers, who's at the University of Denver. He's

878
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 3: an anthropology professor. By the way, he's looking at these

879
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 3: scans and he's saying it, quote, it does not appear

880
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 3: that these GPR ground penetrating radar data have been processed

881
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 3: or that any of the so called anomalies are visible

882
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 3: in the raw data that are provided.

883
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,959
Speaker 4: This guy, by the way, I saw this in every

884
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 4: thing that cited this dude. He wrote the book on

885
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 4: ground penetrating Radar.

886
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 3: There you go. It's gonna make a joke about penetrating

887
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 3: the ground via that old poet laureate of the West.

888
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 3: But we'll go back to Let's go back to the

889
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 3: quote he says, My suggestion to those who are collecting

890
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 3: it is that they release the raw data for some

891
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 3: peer review by other GPR people before they allow the

892
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: antiquities people to hold a press conference about all the

893
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 3: riches that might be in these supposed tombs. That peer

894
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 3: review would cut down all the speculation and critiques that

895
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: have been going on around the email for the last

896
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 3: few days, as there might be, as there might be

897
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,240
Speaker 3: as many scientists who could reach a consensus in advance

898
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: of the speculation in the press.

899
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 4: This was in twenty sixteen, By the way, I was

900
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 4: not able to find any more recent updates to this.

901
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 4: But in twenty sixteen Egypt's Antiquities ministry refused to follow

902
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 4: Kanyer's advice or acknowledge another series of scans that were

903
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 4: carried out by National Geographic Or with their assistance, saying

904
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 4: they would independently test the site. Instead, Reeve and his

905
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 4: co author were allowed to present their findings unchallenged within

906
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 4: the Egyptology community in Egypt. So I don't know. Ben,

907
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 4: we were talking about this off air. It seems like

908
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 4: the ministry here is protecting their like what tourism kind

909
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 4: of booned this could produce. I'm confused as to why

910
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 4: they would be so secretive or not allow other perspectives

911
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 4: in this in this discussion.

912
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 3: Could it be grant money coming in from NGOs or

913
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 3: some other.

914
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: Thing, or it could be grant money, It could be

915
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 1: a unsc thing, It could be it could be any

916
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: number of things. We do know that in some cases,

917
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: state organizations like this are incentivized or incentive, depending on

918
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: which word you prefer, to preserve a certain status quo.

919
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: It happens. It happens as well in Central America and Mexico,

920
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: where in some cases some countries don't want a lost

921
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: site to be found because then they are responsible for

922
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: restoring and maintaining it. It also could, and this is

923
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: somewhat depressing, it could just be a matter of corruption.

924
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: They may have just not greased the right palms yet,

925
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: but they did allow him to like they just didn't respond, right.

926
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I mean they definitely did. It wasn't even

927
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 4: the father of GPR or whatever. He was just kind

928
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 4: of weighing in on this, and I think he was

929
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 4: even quoted at another time saying he was considering going and

930
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 4: conducting some tests himself, but he's glad he didn't because

931
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 4: the whole thing seems like a real debacle, and you know,

932
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 4: didn't want to fly halfway around the world to be

933
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 4: part of this kind of total ship show.

934
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 5: Now.

935
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 1: I know that as of twenty eighteen, professors were still

936
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: fighting over a three D image that was constructed of

937
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: someone who was presented as Neffer TD, a thirty four

938
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: hundred year old mummy that was identified as the younger lady.

939
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: But that was discovered back in eighteen ninety eight and

940
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: then TV producers got a hold of it.

941
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 2: So oh boy, yeah, so I had drama trusted well.

942
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 4: Point being is this is still a hotly contested issue,

943
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 4: and I think the backstory of this whole Neffer td

944
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 4: Akanatan situation is really interesting and kind of points to

945
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 4: how history can kind kind of obscure the truth, you know,

946
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 4: based on ideological disagreements.

947
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: And although you didn't hear it through the magic of editing,

948
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: we just had a break off air ourselves and we

949
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: hope that you are enjoying this episode. Because time got

950
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: a little bit ahead of us. We have more famous tombs,

951
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 1: but we are going to have to save those for

952
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: another day the second part of what has become a

953
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: two part episode. We will rejoin you next time as

954
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: we stay in Egypt and travel further throughout the ancient

955
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: and not so ancient world. In the meantime, we have

956
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: to ask, while you're waging on part two, what benefits

957
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: do you see these searches having for modern civilization? You know,

958
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: some people, oddly enough, I don't know about you, guys,

959
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: but this surprised me. Some people have argued, in a

960
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: very utilitarian way, we should just let the past die

961
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: and focus on the future. Why spend hundreds of thousands

962
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: or millions of dollars finding these long gone, long neglected

963
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: tombs when there are people starving, you know what I mean,

964
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 1: in the Middle World? Should we spend that money saving

965
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: the people who are alive instead of finding the venerated

966
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: corpses of people who have died.

967
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 3: Or you know, spend it on sending us all the mars.

968
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: There we go, There we go, in case Elon is

969
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: tuning in, And secondly, do you think it's possible that

970
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: someone alive today might know the location of one of

971
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: these graves or some of these remains? And if so,

972
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: why would they continue to keep it a secret?

973
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 3: Yeah? And have you ever come across bones that are

974
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 3: purportedly from Thomas Paine? We want to know about it.

975
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: Tell us about your buttons.

976
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 3: Don't send it to twenty three and meters I guess,

977
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 3: but you know, maybe send it to one of the

978
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 3: other ones. You think ancestry is clean so far.

979
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: I think it's an inevitable situation.

980
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 3: Well send it somewhere.

981
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: I also don't think it's necessarily bad. I mean, what

982
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: do you guys think?

983
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: This is valuable stuff? And we have episodes about that.

984
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 1: You can find them all on our website stuff they

985
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: don't want you to know, dot Com or wherever you

986
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: find your favorite podcast, and you can send us the

987
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 1: answers to those questions via. I mean, we're all over

988
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: the social needs right, We're on Instagram, Facebook.

989
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 3: Twitter, socialba ds, social needs.

990
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 2: Yes, social needs als and I pas yes.

991
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 3: As you said, conspiracy stuff on most conspiracy stuff show

992
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 3: on Instagram. Uh, if you want to maybe, well, there's

993
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 3: all those ways you can get a hold of us.

994
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 3: Check out here's where it gets crazy. That's our fait

995
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 3: one of our Facebook pages. It's our I guess more

996
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 3: of our member group that you have to join. The

997
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 3: only thing you have to know to get in is

998
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 3: our names. And it is so surprising how many people

999
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 3: get it so wrong when trying to join that page.

1000
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, Matt, but I really enjoy

1001
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: the thing is. Look, the question is, can you name

1002
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: the host of the show?

1003
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 2: You know?

1004
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, then Matt Nole, super producer, Paul or Casey. Thanks

1005
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: for coming, by the way, Casey. We also just for

1006
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: peak behind the curtain. If we think the answer is

1007
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: funny enough, if we actually laugh, we'll be like, ah

1008
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: go come on let them in.

1009
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1010
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 3: If we can tell it's an inside joke or something,

1011
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 3: they were like, okay, they know what's going on.

1012
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 2: What are some of the weird nicknames you guys saw?

1013
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 3: Mostly what I see is just strange pronunciations or writings

1014
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 3: of Nole's name, just really interesting.

1015
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 4: N O A L n O L E and you

1016
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 4: U L.

1017
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 2: I think I like that.

1018
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 4: That's a good one.

1019
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: There was also k n O W L.

1020
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's one of my favorite things I think.

1021
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: And so you can join the conversation with us, most

1022
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,959
Speaker 1: importantly with your fellow listeners and we we we drop

1023
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 1: by there too.

1024
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 3: Yeah oh yeah. And if you don't want to do that,

1025
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 3: and that's the end of this classic episode. If you

1026
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 3: have any thought or questions about this episode, you can

1027
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 3: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.

1028
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 3: One of the best is to give us a call.

1029
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 3: Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you

1030
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 3: don't want to do that, you can send us a

1031
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 3: good old fashioned email.

1032
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 5: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1033
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1034
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1035
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.