WEBVTT - Andor Finale with Adam Serwer 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.760 Warning, this podcast candad spoilers for the finale of and 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:08.160 Or and some minor spoilers for the film Rogue one 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:27.880 Book of It. Hello, my name is Jason Cantepsion and 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:30.520 welcome to x ray Vision, the Cricket podcast, where we 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.760 dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:38.640 In this episode, it's the big and Or finale episode. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:40.879 We're gonna be discussing the and Or finale, and the 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.400 Airlock and the Hive Mind more and Or with Atlantic 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.879 staff writer Adam Sewer, who wrote a really really interesting 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.160 piece in The Atlantic about the show, and in nerd Out, 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:55.800 Liz theorizes about an and Or character's possible connection to 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:58.440 the Force And of course, if you want to jump around, 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.760 check the show notes for time stamps Enemy Today. She's 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.440 the only one that knows what happened on Canari. She 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:12.520 is a daughter of Ferris. She knows all about Sagarera's extremism, 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.280 but she's not gonna talk about it anywhere else but here. 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.160 She is the great, the powerful Rosie Night, Rosie, how 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:18.440 are you? 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.479 I'm good? Tell her it's true. I saw was right. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.960 I just need to say that she was apologist. He 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:25.679 was always right. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.399 We're gonna talk about this at length because he continues 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.920 to write he was right early, he's still right, and 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:34.440 he will continue to be right. Yep, and he just 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.280 does not get the credit he deserves. How is your Thanksgiving? 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.280 It was a very good chill time. I ate food 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.440 with my friends and I watched a lot of movies 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.040 and worked on a very cool secret project. I can't 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:52.000 talk about proper break, but it was nice to just 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:53.200 be able to give slow down. 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.280 Can you give like one very very vague hint. 0:01:56.400 --> 0:02:01.480 It is a comic book format. It's in the comic 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.560 book formats. That's the end I can give you. But yeah, 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:07.480 I missed, I missed being hand talking to you. But 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.760 it was is nice to to just take some time 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.960 and nice to be able to like really dig in 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.160 to and Or and kind of watch it and take 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:20.200 in that unreal finale before we kind of dig into 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:20.760 it here. 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:24.600 I had I had family in town. Oh lovely went 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:30.800 all around. I baked bread. We realized that we realized 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.680 that one of our family members who had COVID like 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.480 two months ago and has been like, oh, my taste 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.919 hasn't come back. My taste hasn't come back stuff tastes weird. 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.560 We realized when they were here that what was going 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.000 on is their taste had come back at a certain point. 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:48.040 They're just eating bad food. 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:52.480 Where you will in La and you will eat some 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.640 food and you will know the flavors will be there 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:56.240 as soon as you know. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.760 We like, ordered some Italian from Jonavitti's and and immediately 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.480 it was like this Pesto's delicious. Holy holy cow. Like 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.440 what looks like the taste is back, ladies, and that's wonderful. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.679 I'll have it back. Okay, let's get into it. Let's 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:15.800 get into the andor finale. It's runoff time. Early voting 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.639 starts Monday, November twenty eighth for the December sixth election. 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:20.920 If you're a Georgia voter, head over to vote Save 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:22.960 America dot com to make your plan and if you 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:24.600 want to help out, no matter where you live, you 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.920 can donate and find remote and in person volunteer opportunities 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.800 to make sure the Warnock campaign as the resources it needs. 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:34.040 Fifty one senators means the difference between a true majority 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.600 or being faced with another two years of roadblocks like 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.480 problem Children, Kristen Cinema Boo and Joe Manchin Boo make 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:42.880 sure that every Georgia voter can make their voice heard 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:56.400 again at Vote Save America dot com. We're stepping out 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:01.400 of the airlock into the streets of Ferrik as the 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:08.240 mournful but also inspiring funeral March is playing, and we're 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.840 here to talk about the finale of and or Rix Road. 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:15.560 Written by Tony Gilroy, directed by Benjamin Karen gron Feryx. 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:20.080 It is the day of Marv's funeral. Deirdre arrives on planet. 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.760 She meets with all her imperial underlings, and you know, 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.320 takes a peek into Bix's cell through the porthole. Elsewhere, 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:32.000 Zen meets with Brasso after Brasso's shift, and Zen tells 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.159 Brasso that, hey, I just got to call from Cassian. 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.960 What that's right? I think Cassio Cassian's coming home. He 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:43.039 knows that Marva died. Meanwhile, the ISB is all over Ferix. 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.679 They're crawling all over the streets, keeping a very close 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:52.080 eye on Brasso. They're watching this this interaction happen. Meanwhile, 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.960 also watching this interaction happen is Synta of the al 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.400 Donnie Crue. They are waiting also for Cassian to show 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:03.919 up because they would like to kill Cassian and close 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:10.279 that loose end. Later, Nerchi, the Frexian junk dealer, who 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:17.440 is now informing to the ISB with absolute alacrity, is 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.360 giving up every He can't wait to give it all up, 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.680 wants to do it, wants to get off this this 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.719 dust bowl of a planet. Is meeting Zan for a 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.240 drink and he's like, you know, He's like, oh, you know, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.680 it's got to be who's going to place Marva's Stone, 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.240 And that's got to be really eating at Cassian and 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:42.080 that's got to be so tough. And she is plays 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:49.080 this very very, very very candily because he can kind 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.600 of tell that Zan has some information. But then Nerchi 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:54.719 covers it up by saying, Hey, if you know anything, 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.039 keep it to yourself, don't tell me. But like can 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:01.159 tell by the way that Zan is like stewing over 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.440 his drink and clearly wants to say something that he 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:04.080 knows something. 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.520 Yeah, And this is a great bit of foreshadowing too. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.599 Who will be there to place Marva's Stone. Don't worry. 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.200 The stone will come in use in one of the 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.760 most memorable scenes and you will see who places it 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.159 and where they place it, and it's so good because 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:18.560 that line just gets me. 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:23.240 Elsewhere, we see Wilman, who is the son of Solomon, 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.960 a man who was previously in the series tortured by 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.960 the ISB. We see him assembling some kind of device 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:36.000 which we take to be a bomb on Coruscant. Mon 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.960 is waiting in the limo for Paren. He gets in, 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.040 they go off to ride off together, and then Man 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:49.599 starts this argument with Paren where she confronts him about 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:51.800 his gambling. How long have you been doing it? I 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.800 can't believe you're gambling again. If you want to do that, 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:57.680 you know, go to Canto bite to do that, but 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:59.839 don't do that here, and don't lie to me about 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:02.880 it it and parents like, what the fuck are you 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:03.599 talking about? 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.599 Like why are you guying on about? He's like many 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.159 he does many things wrong, this man, But gambling is 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:09.400 doesn't seem like I kind. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.360 Of clean that. I've cleaned that up. I haven't been gambling. 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.920 It's certainly not, on course not. Somebody is getting in 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.120 your ear. They're trying to tear you down by attacking me. 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.480 And anyway where would I get the money? And and 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.760 Mon Is like, that's the thing that scares me the most. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:29.920 And of course all of this whole discussion is is 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.880 for the benefit of Clorus, who man knows their driver, Clorus, 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.840 who man knows it is an ISB agent slash informer. 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.600 Yeah, she's setting up her husband to basically take the 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.120 fall for whenever this audit comes around. 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.520 She's laying the right where my husband's My husband gambled 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:47.920 it away. 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.080 He gambled it away. And you know what, you know, 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:51.840 I didn't just come up with this as an excuse, 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.080 because didn't my driver. I tell you that six months 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:55.920 ago right now, And. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.800 It's actually super super smart that said, we know there's 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.520 an and or season two, and you have to feel 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.120 that this is not a permanent fix. Like this will 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:11.600 buy her some time. Sure as they untangle this and 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.560 try to figure it out, maybe follow Parent around, you know, 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.880 like this will force the ICEP to spend some assets 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.040 on Parent and see if he is really gambling. But 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:26.119 ultimately the ISB will run this down and will figure 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:27.680 out that that's not. 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.280 Especially because even if they don't figure out what she's 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.800 actually been using the money for, they will know that 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.680 she got the loan from Davos. They will find that 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.679 out at some point and the question is how reliable 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:41.959 is that man now that their families are connected through 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.160 their children. Is he going to protect them? Will he 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.800 sell them one down the river? This could be I 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.280 think a big thread that we see in season two. 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:56.680 Does Mon get isolated from her wealthy family and her background, 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.200 then does that radicalize her or does she have to 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.200 just set allow people that she loves to protect us 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.199 status so that she can stay in that place for 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:07.280 spray a rebellion. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:14.439 I wonder there is a great scene in the Great 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.240 Series Rebels. I want to say it's like season two 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:21.599 or three where Mon gives the speech that basically announces 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:22.760 that the rebellion exists. 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:22.960 Right. 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.800 She gives that video speech where she's like, Hey, we 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.720 have to fight the Empire. I am denouncing the Emperor today, 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.360 I am resigning from the Senate. If you want to 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.800 fight the Empire, come meet us in space and let's 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.200 do that, and let's do this basically founding that the 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.120 foundational moment of the rebel alliance. I wonder if we 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:48.880 get a version, not like a retcon per se, but 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.040 if we see that from the other side, because that 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.040 would be pretty fun to I think see the Tony 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.199 Gilroy version of the monds Like. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:58.400 That's why I was going to say, come out one. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.600 We know how much the shows and the animated series 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.920 have kind of leant into each other and become very 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.920 and entwined, especially because Filoni's behind a lot of the 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.920 other live action shows. It will be very interesting as 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:19.640 we move forward towards the time that we know in 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:24.920 the main Star Wars timeline to see how those moments intersect, 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:29.679 and to see what Tony translates from Rebels and Clone 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.719 War was honestly shows that without which and are still 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.800 probably wouldn't exist because those shows were what made Star 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:40.000 Wars television a viable possibility. But like you say, it 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.400 would be fun to see Tony Gilroy translating some of 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.959 those moments from what many people still essentially see as 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.640 like a kid's TV show. In this the least kid's 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.960 friendly Star Wars show of all time. Yeah. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:57.120 Back on, feryx Vell meets her partner the safe house 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.520 since to updates vel about all the movements of the 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.520 ISB agents, various ISBA agents around town. They know they 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.520 have to be very careful. She is ready to kill 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:09.680 Cassian and or this. 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.480 She is a business. She is not about it, Santa 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:14.320 is about it. 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:18.319 She is ready to pop him to save the network 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.079 as soon as he shows his face. And yes, you're 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:26.080 absolutely right. Vell throughout this episode and the previous episode 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:32.200 is really troubled by this. Whatever. She just gets a 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:36.120 vibe from Cassian, not to mention, he was really the 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.080 most competent member of the Al Dani, Like, they would 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.640 not have pulled it off if not for him, and 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:46.120 so the idea of double crossing him, stabbing him in 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.000 the back in order to keep him out of imperial 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:52.839 hands really really bothers her. You can you can really 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:53.400 really tell? 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:57.280 Yeah, And I think as well, like the the privileged 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.720 background that she comes from, ASM's sista, she even though 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.040 she wants to leave it behind her, it is the 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.880 safety of it I think is drawing her back. She 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.200 wants to she did the Al Dannie, Wasn't that enough? 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.520 She doesn't really know that it's a continuous struggle, whereas 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.400 Cinta is very much in the mindset of like, I 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.120 will do what has to be done for as long 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:18.720 as it needs to be done. More of that Looth 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:20.960 in school absolutely. 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:29.480 Cassian arrives back on Ferris and he finds Clem's brick 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:34.520 in the streets. Marv's partner is essentially the man who 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.120 raised him as a father, and he remembers a moment 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.680 where Clem was teaching him to, you know, how to 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.679 clean salvage equipment. And there's this wonderful, like small moment 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.240 of like see, like most people wouldn't even look to 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:52.640 see what's actually underneath all of this stuff. And he's 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.520 thinking about that, and then he heads over to Bix's 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:59.280 shop and she's not there, but Pegla is there. And 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.600 it's from Peg that Cassian learns that Bix is in 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:09.320 the hands of the isb Cassian kind of a steel himself, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.960 goes off and listens to some of Nemeck's manifesto and 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.480 it is elect It is truly like electrifying stuff, the 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.320 kind of stuff you can't believe that. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:21.400 Shall we read it? I have it? 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:22.600 Yes, read it? 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.640 Okay. In Star Wars, there will be times when the 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:30.679 struggle seems impossible. I know this already alone, unsure, dwarfed 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.920 by the scale of the enemy. Remember this freedom is 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:38.840 a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.520 acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.920 are whole armies, battalions that have no idea that they 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.600 have already enlisted in the cause. Yeah, I mean, it's 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.880 incredible stuff, and the performance is so great, like it 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:56.240 just it's the first of two incredible speeches of this finale. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.880 This one is my favorite. But it gets you so good. 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.720 It really just makes you think. Obviously, in recent years, 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.880 Man's role in the rebellion has been it was always 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:14.200 clear that she was incredibly important, but with Rebels and 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:15.960 Rogue One and some of the books and stuff like, 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.440 it's become clear what a pivotal character she was. And 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:23.000 then it's also clear that supporting her are people like 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:27.960 Nemeck who provided we're seeing a lot of the philosophical 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.800 framework for the struggle, and people like Marva who provided 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:36.360 a lot of like the emotional impetus and inspiration for 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.800 the struggle, who we just are never going to hear about. 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.600 They're certainly never going to get a medal. They are 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.440 not like revered heroes of the rebellion, and it is 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.960 really amazing to learn about them here. And also the 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:52.600 other thing I was thinking about is like that the 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.840 idea of like freedom, you know, being an organic and 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.960 natural idea that just springs up when you are restrained, 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.720 when you feel less free, you want to struggle against that. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.840 That's natural. I've been thinking a lot about that with this, 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.120 with this story, and thinking a lot about how, you know, 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.320 something we talk about a lot, which is bad guys 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.360 don't think about themselves as bad guys. They think they're 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:22.560 doing good. I remember, you know, reading in any number 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.720 of histories of the Civil War, reading about how, for 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:32.160 you know, the Southern slavery class ahead of the Civil War, 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:38.600 freedom slavery was absolutely in line with their definition of 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.600 freedom because it meant freeing themselves from ever having to 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.800 do manual labor, which they saw as like work, not 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:47.240 befitting like gentlemen. 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:49.080 And and. 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:55.640 It just has me that that idea and Nemics manifesto 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:01.080 just has me thinking about how much these kind of 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:08.680 powerful but amorphous ideas like freedom oppression can be aimed 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:13.840 and reconstituted and targeted in a million different ways by 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.040 people who are really being sincere but are also like 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.400 completely diluted. Yeah, in the true meaning of the word 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:27.040 freedom or the nature of oppression. I mean, we're dealing 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:28.840 with a lot of that in our world today. 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.440 And I think there has been readings from certain different 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.400 groups of and or that supports their ideas of like 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.880 what freedom is to do with like January sixth and 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.560 stuff like that. What I love is the speech is 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.240 much longer, right, And there's this line that Nemic says 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.800 where he says, the imperial need for control is so 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:51.440 desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort, 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.840 It breaks, it leaks, Authority is brittle, and oppression is 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.680 the mask of fear. And I love that because that's 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.960 when it does that Tony Gilroy thing where there's this 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.320 vagary to it. But then you do the twist where 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.439 it's like we are talking about fascists here, and the 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.560 reason they want to oppress you, and the reason they 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.399 have to fight so hard to do it, and the 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.960 reason they need to be militarized and have weapons is 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.840 because it's so unnatural what they want for other people 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.640 to not be free, you know. And I love that idea, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.280 and also, you know, talking about kind of the current 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:27.480 politics of what translates here. This is also very interesting 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:31.439 because one of the most regular talked about kind of 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:36.679 points about protests is something that people can't stop is 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.520 multiple tiny protests all over a city or a country. 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.919 If you have one big protest, it's easy to stop it. 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.679 If you have multiple rebellions or tiny gatherings, there are 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.120 never enough people to stop it. So it's very interesting 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.280 once again to see Tony Gilroy bring that contemporary idea 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.119 of protests and rebellion and put it into the context 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:58.119 of Star Wars. 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:06.000 Elsewhere, Deirdre is running her team through the ISB her 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.760 plan base, her action plan for Marve's funeral. They're going 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.119 to have Rickx Road covered from every angle, but no 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:19.840 snipers because Deirdre wants him taken alive. Okay, they need 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:24.560 a living witness, and that's a big deal. Now. I 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.960 think this is going to be something when we go 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:32.040 to season two that Deirdre is going to be called 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.040 to the carpet about. I think that I would expect 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:39.680 in season two that one Deirdre is going to blame 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:44.399 other people for the failure to uh to to grab 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.880 Cassie and or one and identify the contact. And two 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.160 she is going to be blamed herself for not having 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:58.840 enough lethal force ready to like put this whole thing down. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.560 Which is really funny. She's not doing it because she's 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.080 some kind person who doesn't want to kill people. She 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.320 wants control and to understand the greater plans of the rebellion. 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.040 So she's like, well, we need people who know what's 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.240 going on, so I can torture them and ask them 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.560 what's going on. But it's probably going to be played 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.920 out because we've seen this misogynistic hierarchy within the empire. 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.080 It's probably going to be played out as if she's 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.240 a woman, she couldn't do what needed to be done, 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:29.120 she couldn't bring the lethal force to control the rebels. 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.440 Certainly, Blevin of the ISB is waiting in the wings 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:37.639 for the downfall of yes of Deirdre. We go to Corroussant, 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:42.680 go to ISB headquarters. Chlorus, the driver is informing Blevin 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.520 about this argument that mon and Paren had and they're 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.040 trying to figure out what does this mean. Then Blevin 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.560 is called away because the Kreeger raid is happening. The 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.199 Kreeger operation is happening right now, and the result of 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:59.320 that operation is Anton Kreeger and his entire crew of 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:05.680 f men thy men are gone. There there are no survivors, 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.919 no one to interrogate. Now Deirdre is pretty wound up 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.280 about this, and she is on the horn with major 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.560 part of Gas and she's like, you know, someone's got 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.160 to say that we're never going to unravel this thing 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:20.960 if we don't have someone to talk to. Somebody's got 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:22.920 to be in the room saying that. Part of is like, Okay, 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:28.240 you don't get it. This is about uh, wiping the 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.600 taste of Aldanni out of the Emperor's mouth, because if 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:38.760 the Emperor is feeling anxious, none of us will be 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:43.160 able to do our jobs. So you you want prisoners, 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.040 You want to be able to have a conversation about 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.639 the way this operation is being run. Find the contact, 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.919 find Axis aka Luthen who they don't know who that 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:58.320 person is. Elsewhere the isb that is watching Brasso realize 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:02.000 they've been fooled. It's Brasso that they're watching hanging out 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.560 at Marv's. It's actually a Brasso double he Brasso himself 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.200 has slipped down into the sewers where he's meeting with Cassian. 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.439 Brasso tells Cassian that Marva wanted him to know that 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.400 none of this is his fault and that she loved him, 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:20.359 and very touchingly, she said she told Brasso to tell 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.520 Cassian that she loved him more than anything he could 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.919 ever do wrong, which is such a powerful, a powerfully 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:32.679 Star Wars sentiment in which, you know, I mean, this 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.640 is a story in which we actively forgive people who 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.639 take part in the wiping out of planets and the 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:44.480 massacring of children, and so that is just a very 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:49.239 very Star Wars thing to utter. Brasso promises that he 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:53.600 will take care of Marva's stone, and boy does he. He doesn't. 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.480 He takes care of v and he uses it to 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:57.520 take care of business. 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:01.960 Luthen makes content with Vell just out on the street. 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:06.040 Also, yeah, wearing his fifth best. Yeah, he's not like 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.680 a black heerd. He's looking very villainous. 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:13.320 Let's can we talk about this, Yeah, Tony Gilroy, of 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:17.520 course from Rogue one even give us any Jedi in that. 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:23.920 But certainly we would assume that Chiroot is. 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:25.719 At least more sensitive. 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:32.000 I wonder, I mean, clearly, the robes make you think Jedi, 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:36.200 make you think sith. I wonder if lucent is one sensitive. 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:41.040 And the Kaiber crystal, he definitely has a connection to 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:43.600 the force, to the ideas of the Jedi, even if 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.720 the word are not is not being you know, uttered 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:49.720 and I know that our guest Adam here he has 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.600 some thoughts on that too that are quite like theory focused. 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:55.679 So but definitely the robes, they're meant to make you 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:59.240 think like, oh, I mean, he's wearing black robes, he's 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:02.360 got them over his face. Could just be a manifestation 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:04.399 of the way he sees himself. We know he sees 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:07.240 himself as the enemy, as someone who's fallen, who's done 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.840 these terrible things. But the Kaiber Crystal, you know, the 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.200 sky Kaiber. I'm thinking. 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:16.040 Maybe he's like a Jeda native. 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.320 I do want I wonder about you too. I wonder if 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:25.879 there's something some connection to that space or just maybe 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:28.400 a friend or a family member who was forced sensitive, 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:32.199 who was a Jedi, who knows. I'm very interested because 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.000 they really play into it in this episode with the 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:37.040 way that they dress Luthor, and we know that costuming 0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:40.160 in Star Wars is really a coincidence. Lots of thought 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:40.760 goes into that. 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:48.359 So Luthen tells Velle that oh, this is perfect, that 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:50.359 there's so many isb here, and she's like, what the 0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:53.520 fuck are you talking about? And he's like, listen, we 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.960 we don't have to hunt Cassi and we let them 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:58.680 do it, and then when they find him, we kill 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:01.640 him before they can take them away to interrogram. It's 0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:04.920 very very easy. Now, let's go to the hotel where 0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:08.800 we can wait them out. Then the bell tower starts 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:13.919 a clanging. It's the funeral. The funeral is starting. The 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:16.320 marching band, which has been warming up, now begins to 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:21.000 play their funeral dirge. The parade is moving slowly through 0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:24.680 the streets. There is Brasso holding marve Stone in front 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:28.000 of him. B two Emo is rolling along with him, 0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:32.960 various other notable figures from Ferrexian Society or i'll here. 0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:36.760 Imperial officers are getting very very anxious. Any kind of 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:42.879 display of of of the people, any kind of mask gathering, 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:45.080 is a thing that they're just going to be very 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:45.920 very nervous about it. 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:49.280 And they're definitely starting to realize that they're outnumbered, which 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:52.600 is the way. There's always more people than that are 0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:55.359 a practice. There's a reason just whether people are together 0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:55.720 or not. 0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:58.120 There's a reason they're building a death star, and that's 0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:02.119 because they don't have enough people to put everywhere in 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:06.440 the galaxy. Cassian is watching all of this unfold from 0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:10.000 his hiding space, and he spots Luthen in the crowd. Meanwhile, 0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:15.399 Nurci makes who believes that he has found where Cassian 0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:17.800 is hiding, and in fact he has makes contact with 0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:19.920 his imperial Hando is like, okay, pretend to arrest me. 0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:22.800 I'll take it, and he gets arrested, and then he's like, listen, 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:26.399 I know where Cassian is. I want double the reward 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:29.080 right now, and you get me off the planet immediately, 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:32.920 like no waiting, no passco, no next week, next month, 0:25:33.000 --> 0:25:35.680 I want to go now. Deetra and the is bgoons. 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:38.480 They prepare to move in on Cassian's location, but again 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.400 Deetro's like, alive, alive, alive a lot? How many times 0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:43.439 I had to say we take him alive? The funeral 0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:47.960 parade stops Brasso and be moved to the head of 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:51.760 the column in her cell. There's this wonderful moment where 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:54.879 Bix is kind of like hearing the funeral music, and 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:57.360 she's like slowly kind of like stirring. Of course, she's 0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:04.359 been like heavily traumatized by the torture she's been she's 0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:08.600 been submitted to, and all of a sudden, the band 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:11.320 changes to like an upbeat marching number and the column 0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:15.200 begins moving with a real purpose. Death troopers now are 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.480 closing in on Cassian's hiding place, but he's not there. 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:21.359 He slipped back into the sewers. And now the crowd 0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:24.199 is chanting Stone and Sky, Stone and Sky, Stone and 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:29.320 Sky and then b pops a little hatch on the 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.000 top of his little head and begins to play a 0:26:32.119 --> 0:26:38.000 hologram message which Marva recorded some time before she passed, 0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:40.800 and she talks about how much she loves Feryx, the 0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:45.399 culture of Farex, what makes it important Feryx's kind of 0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:48.159 positioning in the Empire is this kind of like place 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:51.520 of salvage where they've all just kind of ignored the 0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:54.840 Empire for all these years. Like they come and you know, 0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:56.560 they do their business here, and then they leave and 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:59.639 we try to forget about it. And she says that 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:02.359 she wishes she had done it differently, that she can't 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:04.960 forget it about it anymore, and that she wants the 0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:09.240 people of Pheryx to not ignore their feelings about the Empire. 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.600 They need to rise up, they need to resist the Empire. 0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:14.880 She says, I want Ferris to continue. We've been sleeping, 0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:17.520 we've had each other, and they left us alone. We 0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:20.320 took their money and they ignored us. And then she says, 0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:21.800 fight the empire, and then all of a sudden, the 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:25.440 imperial officers they step in to try and break this up, 0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:29.240 and Bee gets overturned and when it's people, and when 0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:32.320 people see be overturned, they fucking lose it. 0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:34.679 No, no, no, that's the funniest shit. Yeah, that I 0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:37.960 want to go down in Song's history. Marva gives this 0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:40.159 speech and she's really like, she's talking about all the 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:42.840 funerals she's seen. This is a place that's paved with 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:46.200 funeral stones because so many people have died, and every 0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:48.280 time it made her a little bit more angry at 0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:51.000 the Empire. But really, now she needs people to fight. 0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:53.560 She gives this rousing speech and people are getting jostled, 0:27:53.600 --> 0:27:54.320 they're Joscelyn. 0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:58.960 But it's not until an imperial officer kicks over Bee. 0:27:59.119 --> 0:28:00.840 How heck dare you? 0:28:01.040 --> 0:28:04.840 Everyone's like, what the fuck? And will I need it 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:07.720 to go down in history that this rebellion on Pharik 0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:10.480 is not because somebody put hands on B two Emo and. 0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:15.280 Everyone was like absolutely not, yes, absolutely not, it's how 0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:17.159 fucking dare you? 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:21.720 Yeah, Brasso, he's the most pissed. He just he runs 0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:24.200 straight up there. He's got marves for your north Stone 0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:27.760 and he's beautiful. He just bricks and Imperial office right 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:30.320 in the head, so beautiful, and it all kicks off. 0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:33.760 Cassian is at the hotel. He finds Bicks. She's in 0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:36.960 a terrible fucking state. Meanwhile, out in the street, the 0:28:37.000 --> 0:28:41.040 Imperial shock Troopers, the Riot troopers are beginning to buckle. 0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:44.840 And it's at that moment when it seems like it's 0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:46.560 unclear whether the Empire is going to be able to 0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:49.920 get control this situation or where the Riot is going 0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:53.959 to break through that Willman hurls whatever it was he 0:28:54.000 --> 0:28:56.640 was he was building it and indeed is a bomb, 0:28:56.720 --> 0:29:03.800 and it explodes. Several stormtroopers go down. Their vehicle is 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:08.800 also damaged and there gets overturned. Their box of grenades 0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:12.240 cooks off, and now more explosions are rocking the street, 0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:14.960 and the storm troopers just open fire on the crowd. 0:29:14.960 --> 0:29:18.800 They're being just like gunning everybody down. Brasso drags woman 0:29:18.880 --> 0:29:24.800 to safety. Zan gets shot down. Rip Zan, who just 0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:29.080 was a good friend to Cassian, was really holding it 0:29:29.120 --> 0:29:33.640 down and never you know, had his own things going on. 0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:36.920 But at the end of the day, made took necessary 0:29:37.040 --> 0:29:41.840 risks to remain on the side of justice, and he 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:45.160 dies here along with what we can only assume to 0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:48.040 be probably dozens of people in the explosion of the 0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:53.320 ensuing gunfight. It's surely dozens and dozens of Fhrexians. We're 0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:58.840 gunned down here. Meanwhile, Cinta is running around in the 0:29:58.920 --> 0:30:01.680 streets in isbh and who kind of like figures out 0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:05.360 that she's up to no good, stops her. She stabs 0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:08.640 him to death. Cassian fights his way out of the hotel. 0:30:08.680 --> 0:30:11.280 He sees that Nurci is probably killed in one of 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:13.120 the explosions that happened. Yeah, it's clear. 0:30:13.320 --> 0:30:15.840 I have that feeling the classic like he could have, 0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:18.080 because we see the explosion happen and we see him 0:30:18.080 --> 0:30:20.480 get knocked down and he's laying down. He looks dead. 0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:23.120 But I'm like, maybe he's not dead. This hasn't had 0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:26.240 a great record of killing people other than black characters, 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:28.920 so I'm hoping maybe he's gone, like learn his lesson, 0:30:29.000 --> 0:30:32.560 and but I think there's something to be said. You know, 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:35.640 I was on the La Comic Con podcast and Hector 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:38.600 Navarro said this really like thing that I thought was 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:40.800 really heartbreaking, but it really got me where I was like, 0:30:41.040 --> 0:30:43.200 even the people trying to escape, who will do anything 0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:45.320 to escape? If you side with the Empire, You're still 0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:48.360 gonna die. That's like the most fucked up thing. So 0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:50.440 like he tried, he betrayed his friends, and what for 0:30:50.920 --> 0:30:53.440 to end up maybe dead on the floor. It's like 0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:55.920 lots of deaths happening rip to a lot of people. 0:30:56.280 --> 0:31:00.120 Not to mention, I mean this is jumping ahead, but 0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:04.280 you have to assume that once the Empire gets control 0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:08.920 of this situation, and by control that probably means hundreds, 0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:13.640 if not thousands, gunned down, yeah, dead, hundreds if not thousands, 0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:18.240 put in prison and interrogated. And then, as super producer 0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:20.240 Saul is saying in the chat, martial law and an 0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:25.760 occupation of significant size, you then wonder, like, what is 0:31:25.800 --> 0:31:28.160 the state of Feryx when we come back in season two? 0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:31.360 It is probably because even if it exists, right, if 0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:34.560 they didn't use it as a test case for the 0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:39.960 for the Death Star, which is not operational yet, does 0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:44.400 in what state is it? If it even exists? That 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:50.600 I'm sure will be heartbreaking As all this riot is 0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:54.280 popping off, Deirdre gets clabbered by a rock. It's wonderful. 0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:55.080 She goes down. 0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:57.040 It looks like she's about to get torn apot by 0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:58.960 the people of fer I really thought she was coming 0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:00.960 to an end and oust feel very good about it. 0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:03.720 I was feeling great about it until she is rescued 0:32:03.760 --> 0:32:08.680 by our terrible friend Cyril Karn, who historide out here. 0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:14.160 Uh and yeah, you know, I've seen people like frame 0:32:15.120 --> 0:32:18.480 their quote unquote relationship as like Cyril is quote in 0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:20.560 love with Deirdre. 0:32:20.920 --> 0:32:21.240 He's not. 0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:22.720 He's a star love. 0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:26.280 Yeah, he's a star. This is a toxic relationship. He 0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:30.440 is in He is just enamored with anyone who is 0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:33.920 wielding power. He wants to feel power, power, and he 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:36.320 wants to be close to that. It's not necessarily about 0:32:36.640 --> 0:32:39.680 Deirdre personally, it's about what she represents and he is 0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:41.000 not a well man. 0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:44.880 It's very it's going to be very interesting, slash scary 0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:47.440 to see where that goes in season two, because he 0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:50.640 pulls her aside, he saves her, and she's like, oh, 0:32:50.720 --> 0:32:52.800 I guess I should say thank you, and she's sort 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:55.440 of still scared. But they're all close, pressed up together, 0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:57.440 and this is going to be someone that she's gonna 0:32:57.480 --> 0:32:59.040 have to trust I mean, how are they going to 0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:01.040 get off Pheris? Is this going to be the kind 0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:04.360 of situation where we start the second season straight afterwards? 0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:06.400 Is there going to be a time jump if we 0:33:06.480 --> 0:33:09.920 have to see them escape? There is a potential that 0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:12.400 she's going to have to rely on Cyril. But we 0:33:12.480 --> 0:33:15.960 know that Cyril is a horrible person and he's a 0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:18.520 very toxic person from a very toxic household. He does 0:33:18.560 --> 0:33:22.640 not respect women. I imagine that whatever that relationship becomes 0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:24.320 in the future, it's not going to end well for 0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:26.520 Deirdre because that's a man who he wants to be 0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:29.040 close to power because he wants it, not because he respects. 0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:32.320 How to mention you wonder again we're jumping ahead a 0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:34.800 little bit to the conversation, but I do wonder if 0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:40.280 Deirdre does undergo some sort of downfall because of her 0:33:40.320 --> 0:33:42.240 failure and this whole fair. 0:33:42.040 --> 0:33:44.040 Expert, would Cyril sell her out? 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:48.880 Would Cyril once sell her out? Or do they team 0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:54.160 up to continue the investigation either on their own, or 0:33:54.280 --> 0:33:58.000 does she or does she go to the ISBN say Hey, 0:33:58.120 --> 0:34:01.360 this super super toxic weirdo really really helped me out 0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:04.200 and he's really driven and maybe give him an ISB 0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:06.360 application and I'll vouch for him. 0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:09.840 So Chris just super producer. Chris just put in the 0:34:09.920 --> 0:34:12.400 chat that Tony Rris is going to be like a 0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:15.600 year time jump. So I actually, of all the options 0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:18.359 that you just laid out there, I think it's very 0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:20.840 likely that in a year we either see them in 0:34:20.840 --> 0:34:23.440 two places, Cyril very high up in the ISB at 0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:28.959 Didra's side, or post that downfall, and they're both kind 0:34:28.960 --> 0:34:34.799 of in this folly you do insane quest to take 0:34:34.880 --> 0:34:37.920 down the rebels in a very violent, toxic way. So 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:40.360 either way, it's going to be interesting. I was rooting 0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:44.839 for Deirdre to die, but I've never heard of her 0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:47.560 in the later you know, I'll always be very happy 0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:49.759 where I'm like in the future. I'm like, look, I 0:34:49.800 --> 0:34:51.759 know the canon of Star Wars and guess who I 0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:53.640 never heard of Ddra, So that just means I can 0:34:53.640 --> 0:34:54.279 hope she dies. 0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:59.319 She'll be dead, and you know she was certainly we 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:03.839 don't see her, you know, running around at the side 0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:06.200 of Horse and Crenicks exactly. 0:35:05.760 --> 0:35:07.800 Like you know what I'm saying. I'm like fingers crossed. 0:35:08.719 --> 0:35:12.399 Okay, Luthan is watching the Riots from afar while Vell 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:14.760 and Sinta are packing up the safe house. They're preparing 0:35:14.800 --> 0:35:16.640 to get off the planet as quickly as they can. 0:35:17.120 --> 0:35:20.800 Cassian spirits Bicks to a ship which is going to 0:35:20.840 --> 0:35:24.240 carry her, Brasso Be to Emo, Willman, and some others 0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:27.520 to safety. Cassian says his goodbyes, give some advice to 0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:29.640 the pilot, says, listen, as soon as you get over 0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:31.640 the sea, you don't have your tracker on, you fucking 0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:37.200 hit the afterburners. You're out of here. B is like what, Cassian, 0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:40.719 I didn't get to to see you. And You're like, oh, 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:44.359 this is fucking heartbreaking. And then Cassian says, I know, 0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:47.440 but I need you to hold things down here while 0:35:47.520 --> 0:35:50.640 I go take care of business and be like, but 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:53.759 you always say that, And then Cassian is like, yeah, 0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:56.120 but you always come through for me, don't you know you, 0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:59.320 little bee? And it's wonderful. And I hope that B 0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:03.920 is safe forever, even though we never hear much like Deirdre, 0:36:04.000 --> 0:36:06.360 we have never heard of him before, and I hope 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:08.359 that he has saved somewhere me too. 0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:11.560 And there's a really interesting moment where Cassian's like, I 0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:14.640 promise I will come and find you and it's unclear 0:36:15.080 --> 0:36:18.360 whether b doesn't really believe him understandably, but it's unclear 0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:21.560 whether Bix is Lucid or not, because she then says 0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:24.560 Cassian will come, Cassian will find us, but she says 0:36:24.560 --> 0:36:27.440 it to Cassian as if she doesn't recognize him. So 0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:31.440 it's a really interesting kind of heartbreaking moment, especially because 0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:33.959 of what we see him doing in the final scene 0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:34.399 of the show. 0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:39.319 I gotta say, also, some real boor Gullet parallels with 0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:44.080 what happened to Bix, And you know what Borgullet is 0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:46.759 able to do and does in fact in Rogue One. 0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:51.440 Could what the babies are, Could they potentially be related 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:53.080 to Borgollet, like you. 0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:58.680 Wonder if that is the last, the last of its kind, 0:36:59.080 --> 0:37:04.400 you know. Then we go to Coruscant where Mon and 0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:11.880 Paren are presenting their daughter Leda to the gangster Davos Skolden, 0:37:12.120 --> 0:37:16.440 and his son is some sort of chandrillin match. This 0:37:16.520 --> 0:37:17.120 is some sort of. 0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:23.120 Pressing scenes in the show. This is a finale full 0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:27.400 of depressing, sad moments, and yet this moment. 0:37:27.280 --> 0:37:30.160 Seems you talk about sing Mon's. 0:37:29.800 --> 0:37:33.440 Face and it's so horrified with what she is doing. 0:37:34.080 --> 0:37:35.760 It is so gross. 0:37:35.880 --> 0:37:38.319 You want to talk about ruthless like we were talking 0:37:38.320 --> 0:37:41.160 about Luthen as ruthless, right, He's going here to kill 0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:46.120 someone who has been very useful and beneficial to him 0:37:46.160 --> 0:37:53.479 and his mission, and will clearly sacrifice anyone in order 0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:57.399 to keep the rebellion going, keep it safe, keep his 0:37:57.480 --> 0:38:02.600 network from being being revealed. Man Mon. As scared as 0:38:02.640 --> 0:38:08.359 she is, she's also tremendously ruthless and courageous. Just I mean, 0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:11.440 first of all, setting up her husband to take some 0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:14.960 kind of fall grim, offering up her daughter, who is 0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:18.520 you know, a little missed fascist Coruscant twenty twenty two, 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:22.399 offering her up to a gangster in order to keep 0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:29.480 the rebellion you know, in money. She is an unbelievable 0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:33.440 hero of the rebel alliance and the things to do 0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:34.239 aret In. 0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:37.239 She's much more similar to Luthan than she would have 0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:43.120 in her own way, in her own scary like ex 0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:48.799 extremely ruling class way, and the way that she just 0:38:49.120 --> 0:38:56.560 sells it is so heartbreaking to see. She just knows 0:38:56.600 --> 0:38:59.440 that she's doing something terrible that she does not agree with. 0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:05.800 I would argue too, that she's even though you see 0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:09.239 her fear in a much more present way than you 0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:12.960 see Luthen's I think she's she is. I mean know, 0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:15.319 Luthen calls himself a coward at various points, but I 0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:21.600 think that her courage is so it's it's jaw dropping 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:25.279 because she is just completely exposed. She is surround like 0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:27.480 her family would turn her in if they need. 0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:33.680 Yeah, her family loves so much privilege and money and 0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:36.960 security and status from it. They just love it. 0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:40.319 Luthen could get in his spy shuttle with you know, 0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:45.400 his faked transponder codes and his various counter you know, 0:39:45.480 --> 0:39:50.040 like countermeasures against imperial encroachment, and you know, jet off 0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:52.480 to we would assume some safe house somewhere in the 0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:55.919 galaxy mon if it all goes badly, if it all 0:39:55.960 --> 0:39:58.799 went sideways, which we know it won't from because you 0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:00.560 know we've seen again we've seen well as we've seen 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:05.640 Roman Lucy way. But if it went sideways, can she 0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:07.799 would she be able to get off course? On It's 0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:11.919 really unclear, Like she is just completely exposed. So like, uh, 0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:18.400 kudos to man Mathma, a true hero of the rebellion. Elsewhere, 0:40:18.560 --> 0:40:23.520 Cassian has broken onto into Luthen's ship and he and 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:30.120 Luthen arrives and Cassian confronts him, and Cassian gets Luthen 0:40:30.200 --> 0:40:32.239 to admit, yes, I came to Pherrix to kill you. You 0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:35.920 made it really hard to kill you. And Cassian's like, well, 0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:37.799 I'm going to make it easy. There's a blaster right 0:40:37.840 --> 0:40:40.239 there on the table, right next to you. And Lutherans like, 0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:42.719 what the what is this? What is this? And Cassian's 0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:48.120 like essentially says, I want to fight the Empire. If 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:50.880 you don't think you can trust me to fight the Empire, 0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:53.759 then kill me right here. Yeah, kill me or take 0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:56.960 me on or else take me on and let's fight together. 0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:01.640 And Luthen smiles and realizes, Okay, this guy, Cassian, I 0:41:01.680 --> 0:41:05.000 can trust and let's go fight. And then we get 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:08.280 the Stinger scene in which we discovered that the prisoners 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.879 of an Arcina five were assembling not just the death Star, 0:41:12.480 --> 0:41:16.480 but crucially the super laser for the death Star, which 0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:23.640 is you know, Galen Erso's uh project and masterpiece and 0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:27.280 Ultimate Revenge. Also that his life's work is that. 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:31.680 Very ironic prison is building the thing that will eventually 0:41:31.800 --> 0:41:33.880 lead the rebels to be able to get freedom for 0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:36.239 the galaxy. And also we were right, we. 0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:39.640 Did we were right, We were right, We were a 0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:43.960 couple of things that have been on my mind ever 0:41:44.000 --> 0:41:49.000 since watching you know, finishing the series number one, I 0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:50.640 thought we were going back to Canari and we're going 0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:52.840 to find out what happened to and Or's sister. I 0:41:52.840 --> 0:41:56.600 guess that's probably on the on the table for season two. 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:57.800 Did you were you expecting that? 0:41:57.840 --> 0:42:01.040 Were you thinking, Oh, Kerry, you know, I really wanted to, 0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:03.040 because as I've said, like we've spoken about this before, 0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:05.920 I do think that is one of the places that 0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:08.960 the show did not deliver the kind of nuanced, interesting 0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:14.120 context and conversation and representation that I think it did 0:42:14.160 --> 0:42:17.279 so well in things like Narcina five or even just 0:42:17.320 --> 0:42:19.000 like as the finale went on and we got to 0:42:19.040 --> 0:42:22.960 see this textured, working class planet of Pherics. But I 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:26.799 think this is my hope, right, My hope is that 0:42:26.880 --> 0:42:29.880 season two will focus on and Or finding his sister, 0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:33.080 as in that will probably happen quite early, and I 0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:40.040 would love to see his sister challenge what Marva did 0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:47.040 and challenge his assimilation outside of Canari and kind of 0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:49.839 the way that and make him just realize that there 0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:52.320 was a set there was a part of that behavior 0:42:52.320 --> 0:42:55.080 that even if it had good intentions, was actually quite 0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:59.319 dangerous and and and and had a bad effect on him. 0:42:59.480 --> 0:43:02.399 I think that really interesting way to bring that real 0:43:02.440 --> 0:43:05.600 life analogy that we spoke of of indigenous children being 0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:09.680 kidnapped and adopted, and giving it that same context as 0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:15.080 a show that gave us a prison industrial complex slavery storyline. 0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:17.560 You know. So I was surprised that there wasn't even 0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:20.880 a tease of his sister. But maybe that, I hope 0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:23.600 is because in season two they're gonna do something that's 0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:26.440 just as complex and thoughtful as what we've seen in 0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:27.360 this season. 0:43:28.520 --> 0:43:32.440 Yeah, I was I'd be interested to know what happened there, 0:43:32.480 --> 0:43:38.239 and certainly I feel like I know the way that 0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:42.600 it hits me the Marvel storyline, which is that, you know, 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:45.800 I think Marva and Clem thought they were doing something 0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:48.440 really good. Definitely there right, they thought they were doing 0:43:48.480 --> 0:43:53.399 something really positive. But also, you know, it's that thing 0:43:53.440 --> 0:43:56.160 we talk about with perspective, where everybody thinks they're no 0:43:56.200 --> 0:43:59.560 matter what they're doing, thinks that they're doing the right thing, 0:43:59.640 --> 0:44:02.000 or at least is trying to act out in a 0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:06.080 way that comports with their ideals about you know, justice 0:44:06.160 --> 0:44:10.840 and right and wrong. But it's also clearly they kidnapped 0:44:10.840 --> 0:44:11.160 a kid. 0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:14.240 Yeah, and you know, like flat out like you don't. 0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:16.040 Know where his parents are, you don't know where his 0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:19.480 family sister is, you don't know what the bonds that 0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:21.800 he has with those people are. We don't know anything 0:44:21.800 --> 0:44:23.360 about the culture of those people. 0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:25.560 Like part of I think part of this is like 0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:31.000 there was a really intense and in depth, long conversation 0:44:31.080 --> 0:44:33.560 in our discord about this that lots of members took 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:36.040 part in, and I think something that really came up. 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:39.040 There was also something we saw in the early episodes. 0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:41.120 There's a reason that we don't know any of that stuff, 0:44:41.120 --> 0:44:43.680 and that's because from when he was a child, Marva 0:44:43.760 --> 0:44:46.520 says she told him not to think about Canari, not 0:44:46.560 --> 0:44:49.120 to tell people he was from Canari, not to even 0:44:49.360 --> 0:44:52.480 remember Canari, don't talk about your sister. That in itself 0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:59.160 reflects the way that Indigenous children in the past have 0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:02.040 been violated by being forced to pretend that they are 0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:05.120 not Indigenous to fit better into these like you know, 0:45:05.719 --> 0:45:10.000 inverted commons schools and orphanages and stuff. I think that 0:45:10.000 --> 0:45:13.760 that is a very interesting parallel that again I would 0:45:13.840 --> 0:45:16.680 like to see explored because it's to do with intention 0:45:16.760 --> 0:45:19.040 and impact. I believe Martha thought she was doing the 0:45:19.080 --> 0:45:22.320 right thing. Yeah, but Cassie and lost that deep connection 0:45:23.520 --> 0:45:27.479 and it was It feels to me that the fact 0:45:27.520 --> 0:45:29.560 that the sister was a driving force early on in 0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:31.880 the season, but we haven't heard about her again really 0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:35.080 as the season went on. I don't think that's because 0:45:35.120 --> 0:45:37.760 he's replacing his sister with his found family. I'm hoping 0:45:37.800 --> 0:45:40.759 it's because that will be a bigger arc in season two. 0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:43.640 I mean, there were clues, there were hints at it 0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:46.960 over the final two episodes where I thought, oh, we're 0:45:46.960 --> 0:45:48.359 going to we're going to go back there and we're 0:45:48.400 --> 0:45:52.000 going to find something out, but that never happened. Again. 0:45:52.040 --> 0:45:55.359 I do expect that we're going to tie up that 0:45:55.440 --> 0:45:59.759 loop certainly in season two, if not in some other 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:06.200 story form. Okay, Sagerera, you hear a lot about, you know, 0:46:06.239 --> 0:46:09.960 in Clone Wars, elsewhere about it in Rogue One, certainly 0:46:10.000 --> 0:46:17.880 about Sagerera's extremism, how the things that he does actually 0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:21.200 hurt the rebellion because it drives a wedge between the 0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:23.920 various factions who get who are kind of like reaching 0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:27.360 across these various ideological lines in order to form the 0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:30.760 rebel Alliance. He's just so out there, and I guess 0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:35.600 the implication is violent that that people don't there are 0:46:36.040 --> 0:46:38.080 is a significant faction of the rebel Alliance that doesn't 0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:40.120 want him associated with the cause. At the same time, 0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:43.799 I'm really struggling. I wonder if we're going to find 0:46:43.840 --> 0:46:46.360 out what that is in season two, because I gotta say, 0:46:47.400 --> 0:46:51.279 I'm Saw feels very tame right now. Like I'm not 0:46:51.320 --> 0:46:55.280 saying that he is not a killer, but so is Luthan, 0:46:55.600 --> 0:46:58.799 but so is Cassian, but so is Vel, but so 0:46:59.000 --> 0:47:02.479 is Syntha, but so is everybody that we've seen thus far, 0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:07.000 and Saw it does not seem meaningfully out of step 0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:11.799 with what anybody else is doing. And the only thing 0:47:12.080 --> 0:47:14.000 that I see right now that is different, of course, 0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:16.480 is you know, again, there's a lot to be revealed. 0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:19.560 We would assume the only thing that really sets part 0:47:19.840 --> 0:47:23.080 A Saw apart right now is the fact that he 0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:26.759 was first. He was he before anybody was trying to 0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:30.040 organize to resist the Empire. He was doing it and 0:47:30.080 --> 0:47:31.160 saying that we should do it. 0:47:31.520 --> 0:47:34.080 I wonder, So there's two routs. I think they can 0:47:34.120 --> 0:47:36.680 go one. I think in a way, it's just quite 0:47:37.000 --> 0:47:40.600 one of those funny narrative conundrums, because Tony Gilory in 0:47:40.719 --> 0:47:45.120 this show at multiple points is like, just hit an 0:47:45.120 --> 0:47:48.840 imperial cop with a brick. Yeah, just break out of prison. 0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:52.600 Like he's putting for regards on the way, Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:55.480 He's putting forward ideas that are radical, and a lot 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:57.440 of what we've seen in Star Wars before has been 0:47:57.480 --> 0:48:01.480 that kind of that exavy of versus Meo style conundrum 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:05.320 of like the rebellion of mon Mothra, the rebellion Mafra 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:10.719 mon Mothma, the rebellion I got. I'm like, I know 0:48:10.760 --> 0:48:11.920 George loves Godzilla. 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:16.680 It's probably not a coincidence, but you know, the rebellion 0:48:16.760 --> 0:48:21.120 of of of being peaceful and money and being in 0:48:21.160 --> 0:48:23.640 the Senate, we now know that that's actually fake. 0:48:23.719 --> 0:48:25.880 There are not two versions of the rebellion. There's the 0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:28.480 violence of the rebellion that has to happen to allow 0:48:28.560 --> 0:48:31.000 mon Mothma to do the things that she wants to do. 0:48:31.560 --> 0:48:35.520 What I would be interested in seeing will saw Guerrera 0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:39.719 get the blame for Al Darni, is that what makes 0:48:40.080 --> 0:48:44.399 mon So so scared of him and his techniques Because 0:48:44.400 --> 0:48:48.279 she's scared of Al Darni and she would love to 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:50.560 not be connected to it, even though it's what she 0:48:50.840 --> 0:48:55.480 is funding. I wonder if there's something around that where 0:48:55.520 --> 0:48:58.640 Sore ends up actually getting blamed for the one thing 0:48:58.680 --> 0:49:01.560 he didn't do, because the truth is he is the 0:49:01.600 --> 0:49:05.600 one who told Lutheran don't go and kill Yeah Kriegez 0:49:05.640 --> 0:49:08.359 people actually don't allow them, I mean, don't allow them 0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:11.160 to die to keep the secret that's wrong. There's thirty 0:49:11.200 --> 0:49:15.320 men that he does not believe in willful debts and 0:49:15.719 --> 0:49:18.040 murdering people. He believes in doing what has to be done. 0:49:18.440 --> 0:49:20.680 And now we're seeing him that is very much in 0:49:20.719 --> 0:49:23.680 line with what Cassian feels or the show feels. So 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:26.680 it will be interesting to see if they expand on 0:49:26.760 --> 0:49:29.359 what Saw allegedly did or if Saw ends up getting 0:49:29.400 --> 0:49:32.560 the blame for something that the rebellion don't want to take. 0:49:33.239 --> 0:49:37.560 So also feels like, you know, he reminds me of 0:49:37.600 --> 0:49:41.560 a of a dynamic that happens in the real world, 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:46.040 which is a group of people you know, you know, 0:49:46.200 --> 0:49:51.000 from a disenfranchised community or front with you know, real 0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:54.279 roots and a lived experience that is maybe outside of 0:49:54.280 --> 0:49:59.600 the mainstream, will say, hey, this thing is actually this 0:49:59.680 --> 0:50:03.319 is like violent against our community. This is this is 0:50:03.880 --> 0:50:07.480 this is the first step in like you know, uh 0:50:07.760 --> 0:50:10.480 we see where this is actual violence being taken against Like, 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:13.480 this is where this is going. And oftentimes in the 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:15.920 real world, when those figures will speak up, people say, oh, 0:50:15.920 --> 0:50:19.919 that's fringe, you're being alarmist, YadA, YadA, YadA. I see 0:50:19.960 --> 0:50:22.360 that as kind of happening with Saw. Who is again 0:50:22.440 --> 0:50:24.480 who is early on was like the Empire, we gotta 0:50:24.520 --> 0:50:26.920 fight the empire. This is Look how crazy this is? 0:50:27.560 --> 0:50:30.440 Look how look how evil they're being and people being like, 0:50:30.520 --> 0:50:33.799 no being there being alarmist, You're being a little crazy 0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:37.320 about this. And I think it's very interesting that Saw 0:50:37.480 --> 0:50:42.960 is branded an extremist by the quote unquote mainstream of 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:45.839 what will be the Rebel Alliance at a certain point 0:50:46.080 --> 0:50:52.360 when within a few months of the raid on Scariff, 0:50:53.080 --> 0:50:58.759 that mainstream of the rebel Alliance will absolutely green light 0:50:58.800 --> 0:51:01.319 an operation that kills like what two million people on 0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:04.680 the Death Star. You know, Like, it's just interesting how 0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:11.439 somehow Saw is an extremist but blowing up the Death Star, which, 0:51:11.800 --> 0:51:13.839 let me just go on record, that was the right 0:51:13.880 --> 0:51:16.600 thing to do, the. 0:51:16.600 --> 0:51:20.440 Right but there is ethical but conversation. 0:51:21.719 --> 0:51:26.120 But well, like, however many people Saw killed, can it 0:51:26.280 --> 0:51:28.880 possibly match up to how many people died in the 0:51:28.960 --> 0:51:31.560 in the Battle of Yavon. So it's just very interesting 0:51:31.600 --> 0:51:34.160 that at a certain point the mainstream of the rebel 0:51:34.160 --> 0:51:36.759 alliance has come to a place where they're doing things 0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:40.279 that are that if they would have been told half 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:43.759 a year previously what would occur at the Battle of 0:51:43.800 --> 0:51:46.319 Yavin and elsewhere, they'd be like, that's crazy. We're not 0:51:46.360 --> 0:51:48.279 going to do that. We're not going to kill three 0:51:48.320 --> 0:51:50.520 million people like in a strike, We're not going to 0:51:50.680 --> 0:51:54.600 like that. They will find themselves in a place where 0:51:54.719 --> 0:51:58.000 that will just make sense. And I and I hope 0:51:58.000 --> 0:52:01.799 that we get to see whatever it is that Saw 0:52:01.920 --> 0:52:04.560 does to either get that kind of like label as 0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:08.000 an extremist, or we get to see, you know, a 0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:11.080 moment where he gets to say, well, I was I 0:52:11.080 --> 0:52:11.440 was right? 0:52:11.960 --> 0:52:12.680 Was I not right? 0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:16.880 I wonder if, like in the realistic political allegories that 0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:19.040 this show's building in, I wonder if the label of 0:52:19.080 --> 0:52:22.400 extremist is just something they say about him because they 0:52:22.440 --> 0:52:24.520 don't want people to respect him or realize he did 0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:27.480 it first, you know, they they oh, you're an extremist 0:52:28.320 --> 0:52:29.960 was an extremist. We can't listen to him, but this 0:52:30.080 --> 0:52:32.360 was the man who laid the groundwork for what you 0:52:32.360 --> 0:52:33.880 were doing. You just don't want to give him credit. 0:52:34.560 --> 0:52:38.040 I will say. You know, like like a lot of 0:52:38.160 --> 0:52:40.319 us on this Zoom, I watched Rogue one as soon 0:52:40.360 --> 0:52:42.480 as I was done with and Or, and I think 0:52:42.520 --> 0:52:47.800 that a lot of Saw's paranoia in that movie suddenly 0:52:47.840 --> 0:52:50.160 just make it just makes a lot more sense. The 0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:53.920 fact that you know the Kreeger reveal Luthen's Kreeger revealed 0:52:54.000 --> 0:52:58.560 to him, and how his shock at realizing how willing 0:52:58.640 --> 0:53:01.680 Luthen would be to like burn an entired network to 0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:07.560 keep everything safe. It's easy to see how that experience, 0:53:07.920 --> 0:53:11.040 not to mention whatever physical trauma he had undergone in 0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:14.239 the intervening years, would result in the paranoia that we 0:53:14.320 --> 0:53:16.840 see on Jetto where he's like, this is a setup, 0:53:16.880 --> 0:53:20.200 isn't it the pilot You're trying to bait me into 0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:24.360 going somewhere, and it's you can almost watching it. I 0:53:24.360 --> 0:53:27.200 can almost see the wheels turning like this is like 0:53:27.280 --> 0:53:30.480 Anton Kreeger. They're trying to set me up like Kreeger. 0:53:30.840 --> 0:53:33.200 It suddenly all of a sudden really made sense. 0:53:33.080 --> 0:53:35.319 That I will say I think is one of the 0:53:35.600 --> 0:53:42.479 absolute master strokes Tony Gilroy did with this show. He went, 0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:50.040 he made Raguan and then he basically retroactively created a 0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:52.759 prequel with and Or. Look, this sounds like what everyone 0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:55.279 should do with the prequel, but it's not. It is 0:53:55.320 --> 0:53:59.080 like a puzzle box where he takes tiny moments that 0:53:59.200 --> 0:54:02.600 almost seem row away from and Or and expands on 0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:06.759 them in a huge, huge sense. I mean having you know, 0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:11.160 the droids that arrest and Or on the space Miami, 0:54:15.320 --> 0:54:18.959 little things like that. You know Adam will talk about 0:54:18.960 --> 0:54:22.000 it later, but like he has a prison inside him 0:54:22.000 --> 0:54:24.160 and he carries it with him everywhere he goes. We 0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:27.839 now know what that means for Cassian saw Why would 0:54:27.840 --> 0:54:30.440 he think it was a setup that's so specific, because 0:54:30.520 --> 0:54:34.759 that is what Lutheran did with Krieger. Like, it's so 0:54:35.680 --> 0:54:39.520 satisfying to feel the pieces click together. And if you 0:54:39.600 --> 0:54:43.040 haven't gone back and watched Rogan after finishing and Or, 0:54:43.280 --> 0:54:45.600 do it, because I guarantee you are going to feel 0:54:46.120 --> 0:54:50.680 incredibly satisfied and very smartly. There is still a lot 0:54:50.719 --> 0:54:55.839 of space left for Cassian to move in season two 0:54:57.160 --> 0:54:58.880 to get to the person he is in Rogue one. 0:54:58.960 --> 0:55:01.080 He is not that person now because of what happened 0:55:01.080 --> 0:55:03.880 in season one, But we understand the person he is 0:55:03.920 --> 0:55:07.600 in Rogue one a little bit better because of this season. 0:55:07.640 --> 0:55:12.760 Absolutely one last Saw thing, which is, you know, clearly, 0:55:13.120 --> 0:55:16.960 when we see Saw in rogue one, he is he's 0:55:17.040 --> 0:55:19.960 sucking on some sort of like oxygen tank that he 0:55:20.239 --> 0:55:23.240 needs because his lungs have been damaged. He's missing limbs. 0:55:24.440 --> 0:55:29.760 He also doesn't seem to recognize Cassian, where certainly now 0:55:29.840 --> 0:55:34.120 it could be in his state, his absolutely paranoid state 0:55:34.280 --> 0:55:36.960 that he just doesn't remember that he knows this guy 0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:38.359 or had met this guy, or been in the same 0:55:38.440 --> 0:55:41.520 room as this guy. You know Luthan. I remember Luthen 0:55:41.640 --> 0:55:44.759 saying that thing about Kreeger. He doesn't know me. Yes, 0:55:44.800 --> 0:55:46.279 we've been in the same room, but he didn't know 0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:48.160 who I was. It could have been a situation like 0:55:48.160 --> 0:55:51.720 that yere where Saw has been around Cassian but didn't 0:55:51.760 --> 0:55:54.719 know who, didn't recall exactly who he was. But I 0:55:54.800 --> 0:55:58.399 wonder how they're going to play that in season two. One, 0:55:58.440 --> 0:56:01.200 I would expect we're going to get more And two, 0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:07.800 why is it that obviously Saw as a famous figure 0:56:08.160 --> 0:56:11.279 and certainly in rebellion circles. But why is it that 0:56:11.600 --> 0:56:14.480 Saw didn't seem to know who Cassian was? 0:56:14.520 --> 0:56:17.240 Okay, so I think this could tie into the journey 0:56:17.239 --> 0:56:22.040 of Cassian over the next season. I wonder it's very sad, 0:56:22.080 --> 0:56:24.279 it's very bleak, but I think it's probably quite likely. 0:56:24.800 --> 0:56:29.359 I wonder if the way that Luthan sees Cassian as 0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:34.640 being useful after that interaction. I wonder if Luthan is 0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:37.760 the one who trains Cassian to become that cold blooded 0:56:37.840 --> 0:56:41.160 killer oh takes. And I wonder if the reason that 0:56:41.560 --> 0:56:46.359 Soar and Cassian don't necessarily cross paths in any kind 0:56:46.400 --> 0:56:50.600 of definitive way is because Cassian's life is as a killer, 0:56:50.640 --> 0:56:52.839 as an assassin, as the person who will take out 0:56:52.880 --> 0:56:54.920 those who needs to be taken out, which means that 0:56:54.960 --> 0:57:02.360 he is essentially a specter. You know, he's not really 0:57:02.440 --> 0:57:06.000 a presence in the rebellion because his role is to 0:57:06.080 --> 0:57:08.440 take out the people who and I would assume that 0:57:08.480 --> 0:57:10.680 would be very easy to get Cassian to do. If 0:57:10.719 --> 0:57:14.280 you say, well, here are the people who destroyed Canari, 0:57:14.600 --> 0:57:16.880 here are the people who did this thing that personally 0:57:16.960 --> 0:57:19.720 hurt you. Here's an empire person who did something terrible. 0:57:19.760 --> 0:57:21.920 Here's something and then then that's how you get to 0:57:21.960 --> 0:57:25.360 the person in that first scene of roguean who can 0:57:25.440 --> 0:57:27.480 just shoot the informer. 0:57:28.720 --> 0:57:34.440 I let's talk about Luthen for a second, because he 0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:37.560 gives that little smile when when you know, when Cassian 0:57:37.640 --> 0:57:39.360 gives him the choice either shoot me down or take 0:57:39.400 --> 0:57:46.680 me on. And but I I, you know, other pods 0:57:46.680 --> 0:57:51.320 that I listened to have kind of you know, maybe 0:57:51.440 --> 0:57:55.560 have have kind of placed Luthen in that same kind 0:57:55.560 --> 0:58:01.280 of you know, framework of somebody who comes to the 0:58:01.360 --> 0:58:03.960 light of like, oh, I've seen the error of my ways. 0:58:04.200 --> 0:58:08.680 I shouldn't have tried to kill Cassian. Maybe I'll do 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:11.320 the rebellion differently. I didn't get that sension at all, 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:14.680 the sense, especially considering what you mentioned that at the 0:58:14.720 --> 0:58:18.200 beginning of Roguan, Cassian is every bit what Luthen is 0:58:18.280 --> 0:58:22.040 now and will without any unction. 0:58:22.680 --> 0:58:24.720 He'll do it to the people to do it for him. 0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:28.040 He will, He has no compunction to just like cutting off, 0:58:29.120 --> 0:58:32.920 you know, the head of you know, a loose thread, 0:58:33.320 --> 0:58:38.480 if that protects the network. I think I don't sense 0:58:38.560 --> 0:58:44.080 any kind of hesitation or or sorrow in Luthen. In fact, 0:58:44.920 --> 0:58:46.760 I think at the end of this Luthan is going 0:58:46.760 --> 0:58:51.560 to continue to be as ruthless as he has been. 0:58:51.800 --> 0:58:54.840 Like that is my sense from from this. Did you 0:58:54.960 --> 0:58:57.760 feel anything going to change his ways? 0:58:57.960 --> 0:59:00.520 I totally agree. I think you're on exactly the right part. 0:59:00.600 --> 0:59:02.080 I didn't see it that way at all. I saw 0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:08.080 his smile as he is incredibly satisfied because here is 0:59:08.120 --> 0:59:13.120 a person, this guy just like him, Yeah, will die. 0:59:13.880 --> 0:59:15.360 He's going to die or he's going to be in 0:59:15.400 --> 0:59:17.840 the rebellion. And actually what that really means is he's 0:59:17.880 --> 0:59:20.240 going to die being in the rebellion like Luthan. And 0:59:20.280 --> 0:59:24.960 obviously we see that Luthan's speech that becomes true for 0:59:25.040 --> 0:59:27.960 Cassian dying for the sunset you'll never get to see 0:59:28.040 --> 0:59:29.600 or the sunrise you'll never get to see. That is 0:59:29.640 --> 0:59:35.200 foreshadowing of Cassian and Jin dying on Scariff. And I 0:59:35.280 --> 0:59:39.840 think that what he's smiling about is to Luthan because 0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:42.440 of how ruthless he's become. All of this whole season 0:59:42.480 --> 0:59:44.480 was almost like a test. He didn't know he was 0:59:44.520 --> 0:59:47.280 testing Cassian, he was going to kill him. But then 0:59:47.320 --> 0:59:50.400 he comes is, Oh, here's somebody who will who is 0:59:50.520 --> 0:59:52.720 so desperate to be a part of this who so 0:59:52.880 --> 0:59:55.000 believes this is the right thing to do that he 0:59:55.080 --> 0:59:57.479 will give me a blaster and tell me to kill 0:59:57.560 --> 1:00:00.440 him or make him a part of it. I think 1:00:00.680 --> 1:00:04.479 Lutheran is just very happy to have someone else who's 1:00:04.560 --> 1:00:08.880 kind of as unhinged and committed to this as he is. 1:00:09.160 --> 1:00:13.200 And I think that Lutheran is a user as much 1:00:13.240 --> 1:00:15.480 as he's doing things for a greater good. And I 1:00:15.480 --> 1:00:23.240 think we will see that ruthlessness and exploitation translated to Cassian. 1:00:23.360 --> 1:00:26.200 I do believe my gut says Luthen probably will like 1:00:26.560 --> 1:00:28.920 in season two. This is not too Galaxy brain, but 1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:31.320 a little bit further along kind of theory. I think 1:00:31.360 --> 1:00:34.640 he will probably die saving Cassian. I think that will 1:00:34.680 --> 1:00:37.640 be his one moment of redemption. He sees that Cassian 1:00:37.720 --> 1:00:40.240 can continue this on and he sort of does something 1:00:40.280 --> 1:00:42.840 to stop Cassian dying. I think that is the only 1:00:43.320 --> 1:00:46.600 redemptive moment he may have. But I think that it 1:00:46.720 --> 1:00:50.880 is no coincidence that Cassian's ruthlessness at the beginning of 1:00:50.960 --> 1:00:54.000 Roguan is a direct reflection of Luthen's and I think 1:00:54.040 --> 1:00:57.960 that relationship over the next season is only going to 1:00:58.040 --> 1:00:59.880 get more terrible. 1:01:00.600 --> 1:01:03.560 I have a galaxy brain, I have a galaxy. I 1:01:03.560 --> 1:01:11.360 think Luthen saves Cassian somehow at that and to your point, 1:01:11.360 --> 1:01:16.240 that is the kind of Luthen redemption moment. But Cassian 1:01:16.320 --> 1:01:19.919 is forced to kill Luthan, either to let him walk 1:01:20.000 --> 1:01:24.520 into an imperial trap, let him go down, or. 1:01:25.640 --> 1:01:28.120 I think that sounds very realistic, has. 1:01:28.000 --> 1:01:30.280 To kill him in order to keep him from falling 1:01:30.280 --> 1:01:32.320 into the Empire's hands. And I think it's gonna be 1:01:32.320 --> 1:01:37.520 a very tough decision, but I think that is how 1:01:37.560 --> 1:01:39.800 we get to the Cassian end. Or we see in 1:01:39.920 --> 1:01:44.040 rope who I think a guy in the he'll shoot 1:01:44.080 --> 1:01:46.720 a guy in the back, He'll kill Galen or So, 1:01:46.920 --> 1:01:49.600 even though the orders are we snatch Galen or So 1:01:49.680 --> 1:01:52.600 when somebody put you know it, takes him aside and goes, hey, listen, 1:01:52.640 --> 1:01:54.520 we're not actually going to rescue Galen or So. You 1:01:54.560 --> 1:01:56.720 fucking kill that guy this second you lay eyes on him. 1:01:56.840 --> 1:01:59.680 Who will happily kill Galen or So in the presence 1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:01.440 of his daughter, even though he's. 1:02:01.320 --> 1:02:04.280 Not connected with his human level, as. 1:02:04.240 --> 1:02:07.600 Long as that allows the rebellion to survive. I think 1:02:08.320 --> 1:02:09.600 that's my galaxy green tea. 1:02:09.760 --> 1:02:12.160 I think that's a really great call. I think Saul 1:02:12.240 --> 1:02:15.600 pointed this out. I totally agree. Lutheran would want it 1:02:15.600 --> 1:02:17.200 that way. He'd want it. 1:02:17.120 --> 1:02:19.360 That way, he would he would agree with it. 1:02:19.440 --> 1:02:21.240 Yeah, he would want it. He's probably given him the 1:02:21.240 --> 1:02:23.280 old kill me wink, you know, yeah, old like you 1:02:23.320 --> 1:02:25.320 can do it. But also, okay, so this is let's 1:02:25.320 --> 1:02:28.040 galaxy bring it up a little bit further. I wonder 1:02:28.080 --> 1:02:31.640 if there's some kind I wonder if the Sister arc 1:02:31.840 --> 1:02:35.320 and the Lutheran arc crossover in the way that the 1:02:35.440 --> 1:02:39.880 Empire or somebody gets hands on Cassian's sister and he 1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:43.160 has to betray and inverted Commas Luthan, but there's some 1:02:43.280 --> 1:02:45.439 kind of agreement that's made. I wonder if those two 1:02:45.480 --> 1:02:47.640 sides of his life will be pitted against each other. 1:02:48.200 --> 1:02:51.840 I really hope the Sister arc does come into it 1:02:51.960 --> 1:02:54.520 next season and we're not just like she's just fridged, 1:02:54.600 --> 1:02:57.600 like oh sorry, she's there, like sorry to you. There's 1:02:57.640 --> 1:02:58.080 been too. 1:02:57.920 --> 1:03:00.720 Many there's been too many mentions of her for that 1:03:00.760 --> 1:03:05.760 to happen. Vell and sinto what do you think we 1:03:05.840 --> 1:03:09.480 see from the Aldanni crew going forward? And are they 1:03:09.560 --> 1:03:15.520 going to be active participants in this nascent version of 1:03:15.560 --> 1:03:16.560 the Rebel alliance. 1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:19.960 Sinta, Yes, I think she's going to become a big character. 1:03:20.040 --> 1:03:23.040 I have a big feeling that she's gonna be on 1:03:23.360 --> 1:03:26.400 alongside Cassian on that journey, maybe someone who he sees 1:03:27.040 --> 1:03:29.200 doing the things that he believes he has to do. 1:03:30.280 --> 1:03:35.360 I think Vell could be a very interesting character. To 1:03:35.520 --> 1:03:44.440 see mom oh my God through through Vell's eyes, and 1:03:44.520 --> 1:03:48.000 to see that the two sides of the rebellion, Lutheran's 1:03:48.000 --> 1:03:50.840 rebellion and mom Mofma's rebellion. I think Sinta and Vell 1:03:51.600 --> 1:03:55.720 could become kind of reflections of those two versions, because 1:03:55.800 --> 1:04:01.160 Vell's definitely getting tired of the brutal real of the rebellion. 1:04:01.520 --> 1:04:03.880 So I hope that we see both of them going 1:04:03.920 --> 1:04:04.960 forwards in season two. 1:04:07.240 --> 1:04:13.160 An amazing show, an incredible achievement. I understand why they're 1:04:13.200 --> 1:04:16.480 only doing one more season. Certainly when we talked to 1:04:17.000 --> 1:04:20.120 talk to Tony and he was like, well, a certain point, 1:04:20.160 --> 1:04:21.640 I was just like, what the fuck am I doing? 1:04:21.800 --> 1:04:24.400 This is why I do this, disting my life. 1:04:24.800 --> 1:04:27.600 So I'm very you know, like, I'm very grateful that 1:04:27.640 --> 1:04:30.000 he decided to do that again, to go through that 1:04:30.040 --> 1:04:34.040 process again. And I can't wait to see man. I 1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:37.800 can't wait to see how this leads us into Rogue one, 1:04:38.280 --> 1:04:42.000 the Battle of Yavin, and and on and on. Where 1:04:42.040 --> 1:04:46.040 do you put and or in your Star Wars pantheon? 1:04:46.400 --> 1:04:51.600 Who I am? I mean surprising no one. My favorite 1:04:51.600 --> 1:04:55.720 Star Wars is my favorite main canon Star Wars is 1:04:55.720 --> 1:04:57.880 returning the Jedi, because really, my favorite Star Wars is 1:04:57.920 --> 1:05:00.959 like Batfandle like he Walks. I love those e Woks movies, 1:05:00.960 --> 1:05:03.800 and I love I love that stuff. That's my closest 1:05:03.800 --> 1:05:08.760 to my heart. So I'm a Jedi first person. It's 1:05:08.880 --> 1:05:13.840 really hard because it's the comparison of subjective nostalgia and 1:05:13.960 --> 1:05:17.120 love for these things and objective goodness. I would say, 1:05:17.120 --> 1:05:19.840 in objective goodness, this is as good as the best 1:05:19.840 --> 1:05:23.280 Star Wars, so it would be after that, I would say, 1:05:23.360 --> 1:05:28.440 in mind, it's probably around currently it would be like 1:05:30.240 --> 1:05:35.080 Jedi Rebels, Clone Wars and or. 1:05:36.680 --> 1:05:37.200 New Hope. 1:05:37.760 --> 1:05:39.280 But then again, you know, I love the Last Jedi, 1:05:39.360 --> 1:05:41.800 so sometimes that's my number one. So it's hard for me, 1:05:41.920 --> 1:05:43.640 but it's up there. I'll say it's up there. I 1:05:43.640 --> 1:05:46.880 can't say definitively a number based because there's too many 1:05:46.880 --> 1:05:50.120 Star Wars movies. I'll never forget seeing the Force awakens 1:05:50.120 --> 1:05:52.440 in a cinema at midnight with like a bunch of 1:05:52.480 --> 1:05:54.640 other people. That was like one of the best cinematic 1:05:54.680 --> 1:05:57.040 experiences of my life. I think The Last Jedi is 1:05:57.040 --> 1:05:59.280 a masterpiece, but this is up there. I think this 1:05:59.440 --> 1:06:03.960 is a subjectively include some of the best Star Wars 1:06:04.240 --> 1:06:06.360 storytelling of all time. The Knocking of Five stuff for 1:06:06.400 --> 1:06:10.280 me is that's some of my best form or storytelling. Ever. 1:06:12.240 --> 1:06:15.040 One thing I forgot to talk about, and we talk 1:06:15.080 --> 1:06:21.120 about a little bit with Adam, is there are other prisons, 1:06:21.560 --> 1:06:25.760 like for other other alien races. Right, Like they kept 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:27.560 all the they were like, what's your homeworld? They kept 1:06:27.560 --> 1:06:30.080 all the humans with the humans. I would assume if 1:06:30.080 --> 1:06:31.640 they have wookies, they keep all the wookies with the 1:06:31.640 --> 1:06:35.720 wookies like we would. We should assume that, right that 1:06:35.720 --> 1:06:39.480 they're different the Empire across. 1:06:39.160 --> 1:06:42.640 Alien and humans. They know that's very dangerous. So I 1:06:42.680 --> 1:06:45.240 think as well season two prediction something that we I 1:06:45.280 --> 1:06:47.240 know we both want to see in season two more 1:06:47.320 --> 1:06:53.520 alien representation, different kinds of aliens, understanding why human supremacy 1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:57.160 is such a big part of the Empire, but also understanding, 1:06:57.200 --> 1:06:58.720 as we kind of talk about with Adam, that that 1:06:58.840 --> 1:07:00.840 is also probably a budget can strain, and we are 1:07:00.920 --> 1:07:02.960 very happy with what came out of that budget constraint 1:07:03.000 --> 1:07:05.560 because this show looks amazing and they committed to telling 1:07:05.600 --> 1:07:06.920 like a really incredible story. 1:07:07.280 --> 1:07:09.960 Okay, I have and Or. I think it would be 1:07:10.360 --> 1:07:12.880 tied for two. I have Rogue one and and Or 1:07:12.960 --> 1:07:15.880 to me, like, yes, you need both, right, So it's 1:07:15.920 --> 1:07:20.200 either so I have again sometimes, as I've said here, 1:07:20.720 --> 1:07:24.320 yeah is favorite, sometimes my favorite. But I'm gonna put 1:07:24.360 --> 1:07:29.360 Empire first. Okay, so Empire, Rogue one, Slash and or 1:07:29.400 --> 1:07:36.680 one A one B Rebels, a New Hope, and then 1:07:36.720 --> 1:07:37.480 probably Jedi. 1:07:38.040 --> 1:07:38.240 Yeah. 1:07:38.240 --> 1:07:39.280 I love Return of the Jedi. 1:07:39.360 --> 1:07:42.480 I love It's hard because, like now there's so much 1:07:42.520 --> 1:07:45.000 Star Wars that it stops being an easy question because, 1:07:45.040 --> 1:07:48.400 like I would also say that the Last Jedi, even 1:07:48.440 --> 1:07:51.040 though it has like some really big flaws, I love 1:07:51.080 --> 1:07:52.640 a lot of the stuff that they did there. 1:07:53.160 --> 1:07:56.240 Like I wish that Finn had been more obviously a Jedi. 1:07:56.320 --> 1:07:58.440 I always believed him and Poe were both for sensitive, 1:07:58.480 --> 1:08:00.000 and we kind of get that in the third movie 1:07:59.880 --> 1:08:02.000 little bit. But I love this stuff with him and Rose. 1:08:02.240 --> 1:08:05.480 I think that that throne room fight is one of 1:08:05.520 --> 1:08:08.200 the coolest things that's ever been put to screen. 1:08:08.640 --> 1:08:11.560 It's the best lightsaber fight ever period. 1:08:11.880 --> 1:08:15.080 The idea of the democracy of the force and everybody 1:08:15.120 --> 1:08:18.280 can use it and it's not just some weird bloodline elitism. 1:08:18.680 --> 1:08:21.240 So that one for a long time after seeing it, 1:08:21.320 --> 1:08:23.920 that was my favorite. But there's so much that it's 1:08:24.000 --> 1:08:26.920 just hard. But this is up there definitely, and I 1:08:27.000 --> 1:08:29.880 think I feel very lucky to live in a time 1:08:29.920 --> 1:08:32.679 where you can be like, oh, there's great Star Wars 1:08:32.680 --> 1:08:35.080 TV shows, and they're not just great for a Star 1:08:35.120 --> 1:08:37.680 Wars TV show, like Rebels and and or those are 1:08:37.720 --> 1:08:40.920 just great TV shows. Whether or not, I would say 1:08:41.040 --> 1:08:43.680 anyone who doesn't think they're into Star Wars should watch 1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:45.519 this show. I think it could just find such a 1:08:45.600 --> 1:08:48.000 huge audience, and I hope that people give it a try, 1:08:48.040 --> 1:08:50.040 even though I'm sure everyone who listens his podcasts probably 1:08:50.080 --> 1:08:50.920 loves Star Wars. 1:08:51.840 --> 1:08:54.280 Well. We've got more and or up next. 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Welcome to 1:16:00.360 --> 1:16:02.320 the High Mind, where we explore a topic in more 1:16:02.320 --> 1:16:04.320 detail with the help of expert guests, and this week 1:16:04.320 --> 1:16:07.160 we are thrilled to have Atlantic staff writer Adam Surwar 1:16:07.760 --> 1:16:09.960 join us to go even deeper into the politics of 1:16:10.000 --> 1:16:13.040 and Or and talk about his Star Wars origin story 1:16:13.120 --> 1:16:16.000 and more. Adam Serwer is a staff writer at The Atlantic, 1:16:16.080 --> 1:16:18.519 and he recently wrote a piece titled Star Wars Gets 1:16:18.560 --> 1:16:22.040 Political but not in the way you think. Adam covers 1:16:22.560 --> 1:16:28.080 a variety of topics, mostly on the political scene, justice, society, race, etc. 1:16:28.320 --> 1:16:30.160 And we're delighted to have him here on x ray 1:16:30.200 --> 1:16:33.320 Vision to talk about and Or. Adam, Thank you for 1:16:33.439 --> 1:16:33.960 joining us. 1:16:34.720 --> 1:16:36.080 Thank you so much for having me. 1:16:36.560 --> 1:16:41.479 So I think we're both really interested to get your take, 1:16:41.840 --> 1:16:44.400 and also you know, we're fascinated by your piece as 1:16:44.439 --> 1:16:51.000 someone who is not really like into the granular conversations 1:16:51.080 --> 1:16:54.120 around Star Wars on a kind of a week to 1:16:54.160 --> 1:16:58.240 week project project level, to see like your what your 1:16:58.240 --> 1:17:00.639 reaction to and or was you know, just. 1:17:00.920 --> 1:17:04.000 Okay, So how do you feel I need to clarify this? 1:17:04.120 --> 1:17:08.920 So I'm not involved in those conversations, but I am 1:17:09.400 --> 1:17:13.599 involved in the sense that I'm a hopeless Star Wars 1:17:13.960 --> 1:17:14.479 that I love. 1:17:14.360 --> 1:17:14.800 To hear it. 1:17:16.240 --> 1:17:19.000 I think there was like a couple of years after 1:17:19.880 --> 1:17:22.720 the prequels where I kind of detached and just like 1:17:22.840 --> 1:17:26.040 wasn't interested, and then the Clone Wars cartoon brought me 1:17:26.080 --> 1:17:31.400 back in nice and you know, even even Rise of Skywalker, 1:17:31.479 --> 1:17:33.320 which is the worst thing that has ever happened to 1:17:33.360 --> 1:17:35.920 the franchise. It's worse than Find in Menace. It's worse, 1:17:36.000 --> 1:17:39.439 and I mean it is just the complete silence of 1:17:39.479 --> 1:17:41.800 anything to deal with that era of Star Wars. This 1:17:41.960 --> 1:17:44.960 sort of speaks for yourself. Even that did not stop 1:17:44.960 --> 1:17:47.280 me this time, because there's there's so much other stuff 1:17:47.320 --> 1:17:51.680 that's good that they're doing and I think, you know, 1:17:51.800 --> 1:17:54.360 so I'm not. I don't write about it very much. 1:17:54.520 --> 1:17:57.040 I don't, you know, I'm not, you know, I don't. 1:17:57.040 --> 1:17:58.920 I don't get like super involved in like the production 1:17:59.000 --> 1:18:02.639 details and stuff like. It's not it's not professionally it's 1:18:02.680 --> 1:18:05.160 so except for every once in a while, It's not 1:18:05.439 --> 1:18:09.559 that I'm professionally absorbed them, but I do love this stuff. 1:18:09.640 --> 1:18:12.320 I will watch this about any Star Wars content you 1:18:12.360 --> 1:18:16.200 give me. I don't know why, I just I just 1:18:16.200 --> 1:18:17.800 really enjoyed. I think part of it is just that 1:18:17.920 --> 1:18:21.000 it is just it's flexibility, I mean, and I think 1:18:21.000 --> 1:18:22.559 that's one of the things about and Or is that 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:30.160 the universe can contain so many different interpretations, you know. 1:18:30.240 --> 1:18:33.320 I think one of the things that people liked about 1:18:33.479 --> 1:18:36.680 an earlier stage of the MCU, which is that it 1:18:36.760 --> 1:18:39.160 was very clear that in the Marvel Universe, you could 1:18:39.160 --> 1:18:41.759 do something that was a completely different genre from something 1:18:41.800 --> 1:18:43.840 else and it would still like fit. And I think 1:18:43.880 --> 1:18:46.280 Star Wars is really like that, right, I mean, like, 1:18:46.360 --> 1:18:47.880 even if you look at Solo, which is one of 1:18:47.920 --> 1:18:51.160 the less celebrated installments, it's a heist movie, yeah, and 1:18:51.200 --> 1:18:54.200 it feels like a heist movie. And and that kind 1:18:54.240 --> 1:18:59.960 of genre flexibility, I think is you know, a meanable 1:19:00.160 --> 1:19:05.360 to many different kinds of artists interpretations of which and 1:19:05.560 --> 1:19:09.000 Or is probably the best example of something. So we've 1:19:09.000 --> 1:19:12.240 seen a Star Wars creaer do something completely different from 1:19:12.280 --> 1:19:14.960 everything that's come before while still feeling, at least to me, 1:19:15.160 --> 1:19:16.280 very much like Star Wars. 1:19:16.560 --> 1:19:18.840 Yeah, okay, so before we begin to andle then, as 1:19:18.880 --> 1:19:22.120 a fan, I'd love to know, like, what's your origin 1:19:22.240 --> 1:19:24.519 with Star Wars? Where was the place that you first 1:19:24.600 --> 1:19:26.240 fell in love with it? And what's kind of kept 1:19:26.280 --> 1:19:27.839 you hooked throughout? 1:19:27.960 --> 1:19:30.479 I mean I was just I was just a little 1:19:30.560 --> 1:19:33.880 kid who you know, saw the movie when I was 1:19:33.920 --> 1:19:36.320 like five years old or something like that, and like, 1:19:36.520 --> 1:19:39.960 you know, I love the whole series. And then you know, 1:19:40.040 --> 1:19:42.240 at some point you're like eight or something like that, 1:19:42.640 --> 1:19:46.760 and somebody's dad who has like you know, who's like 1:19:46.800 --> 1:19:48.760 a cool dad or something and likes to talk to 1:19:49.000 --> 1:19:52.280 about you know, X wing fighters and stuff with his kids, 1:19:52.320 --> 1:19:55.360 his kid's friends, he says something like, oh, did you 1:19:55.439 --> 1:20:00.120 ever notice that Star Wars one is episode four? And 1:20:00.160 --> 1:20:04.240 this observation just blows your mind and you're just like, wait, wait, 1:20:05.000 --> 1:20:07.920 a whole other story that we don't even know about, 1:20:08.400 --> 1:20:10.680 and and and and and nobody's seen it yet and 1:20:10.720 --> 1:20:12.960 what happened and like you know, and and and this 1:20:13.120 --> 1:20:16.200 just sort of this is the moment where you're like, oh, 1:20:16.320 --> 1:20:20.559 this universe is so huge that your imagination just runs 1:20:20.560 --> 1:20:22.759 away with it, right, And like maybe you start reading 1:20:22.800 --> 1:20:25.360 novels or comic books or something like that, and it's 1:20:25.400 --> 1:20:28.960 just it's just, you know, I think that was definitely 1:20:28.960 --> 1:20:31.000 the moment for me where I where I sort of 1:20:31.080 --> 1:20:33.400 you know, didn't just like it, but sort of fell 1:20:33.400 --> 1:20:33.960 into the pit. 1:20:34.640 --> 1:20:36.000 So what do you think it is about? 1:20:36.000 --> 1:20:36.240 And or? 1:20:36.320 --> 1:20:36.680 And or? 1:20:36.760 --> 1:20:39.479 I think, as you noted in your piece and as 1:20:39.520 --> 1:20:43.200 many people are talking about, is really kind of the 1:20:43.240 --> 1:20:47.000 first project along with Rogan, to put some real meat 1:20:47.240 --> 1:20:53.439 on the kind of skeleton skeletal idea of rebellion that's 1:20:53.520 --> 1:20:57.559 kind of alluded to and talked about but not really 1:20:57.920 --> 1:21:00.679 uh explored in any kind of like de tailed way. 1:21:01.600 --> 1:21:07.519 What is it that uh makes this story feel like 1:21:07.680 --> 1:21:11.080 Star Wars while also being seemingly like the most radical 1:21:11.200 --> 1:21:14.160 take on what a rebellion in this world would mean. 1:21:15.240 --> 1:21:19.519 So I think, you know, obviously Star Wars no stranger 1:21:19.560 --> 1:21:22.679 to political allegory, and when I wrote that piece, uh, 1:21:22.760 --> 1:21:25.000 you know, my intention is not to say that this 1:21:25.080 --> 1:21:27.519 is the first time Star Wars has engaged in political allegory, 1:21:27.560 --> 1:21:30.599 because that's obviously not Tree Lucas is you know, sort 1:21:30.600 --> 1:21:34.320 of famously. But you know, I did this story where 1:21:34.360 --> 1:21:37.200 you can the rebels are both America and the vietcom 1:21:37.640 --> 1:21:40.240 and the Empire is both America and the Soviet Union, 1:21:40.320 --> 1:21:42.880 you know what I mean. And the Nazi like, the 1:21:42.920 --> 1:21:47.360 rebellion is every uh, you know, righteous insurgency that has 1:21:47.400 --> 1:21:50.000 ever existed, and the Empire is every evil regime that 1:21:50.040 --> 1:21:53.800 has ever existed. And that that that's sort of you know, 1:21:53.920 --> 1:21:56.640 that's always been there. But what's interesting about and Or 1:21:56.880 --> 1:21:59.760 and also about Rogue one, although I think it a 1:21:59.840 --> 1:22:03.040 very different way, is that they have an internal politics 1:22:03.520 --> 1:22:05.599 that makes sense. I mean, I think this is something 1:22:05.640 --> 1:22:09.400 that you know, the difference between Rogue one and and Or, Uh, 1:22:09.800 --> 1:22:12.880 to me is that Rogue one, the rebellion is very 1:22:12.920 --> 1:22:17.519 much religious. And and when you look at you know, 1:22:17.560 --> 1:22:19.360 they talk a lot about the force. You know, obviously 1:22:19.400 --> 1:22:23.800 you have cheer praying. You know, the the rebels on 1:22:23.840 --> 1:22:26.880 the beach are saying for Jetta, uh. You know, when 1:22:26.880 --> 1:22:30.240 when they're attacking Scaiff, there's this talk about I mean, 1:22:30.479 --> 1:22:33.960 the huge backlash is that they destroyed a holy city 1:22:34.960 --> 1:22:38.960 and the empire is still violently secular in and Or, 1:22:39.800 --> 1:22:43.080 but the rebellion is not yet at least from what 1:22:43.120 --> 1:22:46.960 we see, is not like a religious institution. But that 1:22:47.040 --> 1:22:49.559 said there's something similar there, and that we have a 1:22:49.680 --> 1:22:54.439 sense that there are ideological divisions in Rogue One. It's simple. 1:22:54.479 --> 1:22:58.880 You know, they say Saw as an extremists, but but 1:23:00.120 --> 1:23:02.559 and Or really gives us. You know, you have Mom Mathma, 1:23:02.600 --> 1:23:05.400 who's sort of more establishment figure who's secretly, you know, 1:23:05.640 --> 1:23:09.160 funding an insurgency, but it's also sort of horrified by 1:23:09.200 --> 1:23:14.519 the the actual violence that an insurgency requires. You have Saw, 1:23:14.560 --> 1:23:16.439 who you know, gives us the sort of layer of 1:23:16.479 --> 1:23:17.800 the land as far as like I'm not going to 1:23:17.840 --> 1:23:20.559 work with somebody who tried to overthrow the Republic with 1:23:20.640 --> 1:23:22.760 the droid army, Like I'm just not going to do that. 1:23:24.400 --> 1:23:26.840 And you know, you have Luthan, who I think whose 1:23:26.880 --> 1:23:29.840 ideological origins have been painted at in a way that 1:23:29.880 --> 1:23:32.439 I think the show very clearly wants you to think 1:23:32.479 --> 1:23:35.320 one thing, although he may not end up being that thing. 1:23:35.320 --> 1:23:37.320 I mean, I think the show is very clear that 1:23:38.760 --> 1:23:41.120 it wants you to think that Luthen is some kind 1:23:41.120 --> 1:23:43.120 of fallen Jedi. I mean, he shows up. I mean 1:23:43.120 --> 1:23:46.080 hopefully you know this is not spoilers, fear listeners, but yeah, 1:23:46.080 --> 1:23:51.559 he shows up like Sis brothers. He's like he's he's 1:23:51.720 --> 1:23:54.920 dressed like, you know, he's dressed like the fake me out, 1:23:54.960 --> 1:23:58.960 sit outfit Skywalker is wearing in Return of the Jedi. 1:23:59.120 --> 1:24:03.280 So he's like, he's he's you know, the show wants 1:24:03.320 --> 1:24:06.000 us to think this. He has that sort of Chekhov's 1:24:06.040 --> 1:24:08.680 walking stick that looks like alf you know what I mean. 1:24:09.240 --> 1:24:10.760 I mean, I mean, the show wants us to think 1:24:10.760 --> 1:24:12.120 that he's a jet I don't know that he is. 1:24:12.200 --> 1:24:13.920 I don't know if that'll turn out to be the thing. 1:24:14.240 --> 1:24:17.960 I don't know what his particular ideological origin is. But 1:24:18.400 --> 1:24:22.080 the important thing is that there is there are ideological divisions. 1:24:22.080 --> 1:24:25.679 There's this, you know, manifesto that one of the characters 1:24:25.760 --> 1:24:28.120 rights and or that and Or himself is uninterested in 1:24:28.160 --> 1:24:30.519 because he's uninterested in politics in the same way that 1:24:31.040 --> 1:24:33.680 in Rogue one, she's like, you know, I don't have 1:24:33.720 --> 1:24:35.960 the luxury of political opinions, and she's kind of lying, 1:24:36.560 --> 1:24:38.240 you know what I mean. She she she based on 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:41.240 her origin, she does have political opinions, but she has 1:24:41.520 --> 1:24:44.960 decided to reject them in favor of, you know, just 1:24:45.000 --> 1:24:46.800 scraping out of a day to day existence, which is 1:24:46.840 --> 1:24:49.679 what a lot of the people in and Or are doing. 1:24:49.720 --> 1:24:52.600 And we don't see. And a big part of what 1:24:52.640 --> 1:24:54.479 people like about the show and what people like about 1:24:54.479 --> 1:24:56.400 this portrayal of the universes that we see those people, 1:24:57.240 --> 1:25:00.360 these people who are aching out in an existence under 1:25:00.760 --> 1:25:04.280 an oppressive regime, not just the people who are sort 1:25:04.280 --> 1:25:06.240 of the heroes who are going to say to the galaxy. 1:25:07.200 --> 1:25:09.160 Yeah, something from your piece that really spoke to me. 1:25:09.200 --> 1:25:11.439 As where you say the series attempts to imagine and 1:25:11.520 --> 1:25:14.800 internal politics of class, culture and ideology that motivates its 1:25:14.840 --> 1:25:19.040 principal characters and fictional institutions. I would say that it's 1:25:19.120 --> 1:25:22.479 quite easy to say that and Or is probably the 1:25:22.520 --> 1:25:25.479 first Star Wars that has really even delved into the 1:25:25.520 --> 1:25:28.920 ideas of class. You know, The Last Jedi definitely wanted 1:25:28.920 --> 1:25:33.280 to touch on this idea of a democracy of the 1:25:33.400 --> 1:25:35.759 force and how all different people from all different spaces. 1:25:35.760 --> 1:25:37.920 But and Or, like you said, it really delves into 1:25:38.320 --> 1:25:41.480 kind of the politics of class and how it impacts 1:25:42.000 --> 1:25:44.320 the galaxy. Could you speak a little to that and 1:25:44.520 --> 1:25:46.639 how effective you think it is in this series. 1:25:47.800 --> 1:25:50.640 Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, you know Pheris, you know, 1:25:50.680 --> 1:25:54.439 Perix's working class planet. The people there are doing salvage 1:25:54.439 --> 1:25:57.720 and so they're working with their hands. You know, the 1:25:57.760 --> 1:26:02.120 empire is you know, you get a sense that the 1:26:02.600 --> 1:26:05.479 heights in the film, in the show provides the pretext 1:26:05.560 --> 1:26:09.320 for the empire to engage in uh, you know, essentially 1:26:09.640 --> 1:26:13.280 prison slave labor to spee up. You know that that's 1:26:13.320 --> 1:26:18.240 not necessarily a question of uh, the utility of the repression, 1:26:18.320 --> 1:26:24.360 but the need to uh recruit a labor force, you know, 1:26:24.479 --> 1:26:27.680 the the you have you know things like you know, 1:26:27.800 --> 1:26:30.840 Carn is not simply an ideologue. He is sort of 1:26:31.080 --> 1:26:34.120 from a lower middle class family on Corroussant, like we 1:26:34.200 --> 1:26:37.280 never we can't see the sky from where Karn's apartment, 1:26:37.280 --> 1:26:39.920 mother's apartment is, right. It's a small apartment. It's a 1:26:40.000 --> 1:26:43.200 kitchen at the dining room. You can see the stove 1:26:43.240 --> 1:26:44.840 from the dining room. You know what I mean. It's 1:26:44.880 --> 1:26:48.240 it's a small apartment. The neighbors are observing, you know, 1:26:48.280 --> 1:26:51.760 they can hear uh. You know it's it's uh, you know, 1:26:51.800 --> 1:26:53.800 lower east side, New York City or something like that, 1:26:54.200 --> 1:26:58.160 you know, uh, eighty years ago. And and that that 1:26:58.280 --> 1:27:00.240 that kind of detail. And I think this is again 1:27:00.240 --> 1:27:02.599 this on that the and Or does really well, is 1:27:02.600 --> 1:27:08.519 that it they've done their research about historical periods and 1:27:08.560 --> 1:27:12.400 events in a way that allows them to remix them 1:27:12.400 --> 1:27:15.519 in a way that they're recognizable, but also like they're 1:27:15.560 --> 1:27:20.000 not tracing them, you know what I mean, Like it's 1:27:20.200 --> 1:27:23.080 it still feels like Star Wars. It doesn't feel like 1:27:23.960 --> 1:27:27.320 you know, it doesn't really feel like New York City. Yeah, 1:27:28.280 --> 1:27:32.960 you know, the the the prison break, which you know, 1:27:33.560 --> 1:27:36.680 like the events of the prison break really sound a 1:27:36.760 --> 1:27:40.240 lot like the concentration camp uprising at Sobeople were in 1:27:40.280 --> 1:27:43.400 World War Two. But it but at the same time, 1:27:43.439 --> 1:27:45.519 it's not so close to it that you're like, oh, 1:27:45.560 --> 1:27:46.599 they just copied this. 1:27:46.680 --> 1:27:49.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they translate it into the world 1:27:49.160 --> 1:27:51.320 of Star Wars in a way that feels organic. 1:27:51.320 --> 1:27:56.320 Right exactly. And you know, things like you know, Masma's daughter, 1:27:57.320 --> 1:28:03.120 you know, embracing you know, her plans religious traditions in 1:28:03.160 --> 1:28:06.320 a way that feels like an act of defiance, you know, 1:28:06.479 --> 1:28:10.400 not just towards her parents, but towards the empire, you know, 1:28:10.439 --> 1:28:13.240 which is again it is it is similarly violently secular 1:28:13.360 --> 1:28:17.000 right they do not have. They tolerate religion, but they 1:28:17.080 --> 1:28:18.880 see it as a privilege that they can take away, 1:28:19.040 --> 1:28:23.000 not as a right of the people under their control. 1:28:23.680 --> 1:28:25.680 And so I think, you know, these are all things 1:28:25.720 --> 1:28:27.400 that are drawn from the I mean, and even when 1:28:27.439 --> 1:28:29.280 you look at Rogue One, it's sort of a similar 1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:34.120 like that film is a creature of this period, but 1:28:34.200 --> 1:28:36.920 I think it is a not It is a very 1:28:36.960 --> 1:28:41.120 clear sort of analogy to the War in Afghanistan in 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:44.320 terms of this portrayal. It's like a space Afghanistan, but 1:28:44.960 --> 1:28:47.559 or the Western perception of the War in Afghanistan rather. 1:28:47.640 --> 1:28:51.520 But the point is that it's taking these real world 1:28:51.560 --> 1:28:54.240 events and remixing them in a way that makes sense 1:28:54.280 --> 1:28:56.800 within the universe, and that gives the universe a sort 1:28:56.800 --> 1:29:01.280 of realistic feel that you know, Star Wars is typically 1:29:01.320 --> 1:29:04.840 not known Star Wars is a space offera, but it's 1:29:04.840 --> 1:29:07.599 really a fantasy, right. It's almost like it's more it's 1:29:07.640 --> 1:29:10.720 closer to Lord of the Rings than Star Trek in 1:29:10.760 --> 1:29:14.840 some ways. And so I think, you know, the sci 1:29:14.880 --> 1:29:19.679 fi aspects of and Or are there, like they're obviously present, 1:29:19.760 --> 1:29:23.880 you know, you but they are not the wheels around 1:29:23.880 --> 1:29:25.240 which the plot itself turns. 1:29:25.280 --> 1:29:30.040 Necessarily because the show is so interested in like what 1:29:30.080 --> 1:29:35.240 motivates people to rebel, what motivates a political movement. I 1:29:35.320 --> 1:29:38.200 wonder if you could if you have any thoughts about 1:29:38.840 --> 1:29:42.599 how we interact, you know, as human beings with our 1:29:42.640 --> 1:29:46.880 political ideals. Is that a scaffolding that we then build 1:29:46.880 --> 1:29:51.120 our outlook on, or do people decide as I think, 1:29:52.040 --> 1:29:58.040 you know, scheme the kind of Rapscallion a Donnie gang 1:29:58.080 --> 1:30:01.240 member who then tries to get Cassie and to like 1:30:01.320 --> 1:30:04.160 turn on the on the group and steal the money 1:30:04.280 --> 1:30:05.800 he had. He had kind of won him to a 1:30:05.840 --> 1:30:08.240 side by saying, oh, you know, they killed my brother 1:30:08.439 --> 1:30:10.760 and here's why I turned against the empire, you know, 1:30:10.840 --> 1:30:15.320 as is kind of alluded to by his character. People 1:30:15.360 --> 1:30:17.720 make a decision that they're going to do something and 1:30:17.760 --> 1:30:22.000 then backfill this entire political ideology to fit that, like 1:30:22.439 --> 1:30:24.479 which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Do you 1:30:24.520 --> 1:30:27.919 think in the way we interact with our political ideals? 1:30:28.439 --> 1:30:29.840 Well, I think one thing one of the things that 1:30:29.880 --> 1:30:31.439 I like about the show is that it is not 1:30:32.680 --> 1:30:36.240 the characters make choices. Yeah, you know, Mam Mathma is 1:30:36.280 --> 1:30:38.599 from a particular social class and she makes the choice 1:30:38.600 --> 1:30:40.880 to rebell. Not everybody in her social circle is making 1:30:40.880 --> 1:30:44.519 that choice. In fact, most people are not making that choice. 1:30:44.640 --> 1:30:47.960 She she she views the rebellion through her own ideological lens. 1:30:48.000 --> 1:30:51.479 You know, she's horrified by al Donnie, even though like 1:30:51.520 --> 1:30:54.439 al Donnie is what she is. Funded. Yeah, you know, 1:30:54.479 --> 1:30:59.280 so her her class background, her privilege, she interprets the 1:30:59.320 --> 1:31:01.800 rebellion through that, and obviously you know, we know what 1:31:01.840 --> 1:31:04.640 happens with my mathma later if you're if you're a 1:31:04.680 --> 1:31:08.000 Star Wars fan, but you know the same thing, you 1:31:08.040 --> 1:31:11.080 know they're you know, Skiing is an example of someone 1:31:11.120 --> 1:31:14.640 who is he believes because he and and Or are 1:31:14.680 --> 1:31:18.320 sort of from the same galactic underclass, that they're going 1:31:18.400 --> 1:31:24.200 to make the same decisions and that moment narratively, you know, 1:31:24.280 --> 1:31:27.040 and Or is not necessarily committing to the rebellion at 1:31:27.040 --> 1:31:29.240 that moment. In fact, he's not. His plan is to 1:31:29.280 --> 1:31:32.800 take that loot and go to Space Miami and he 1:31:32.880 --> 1:31:36.640 doesn't get a get a girl, and like you know, 1:31:36.800 --> 1:31:40.599 enjoy the rest of his life. But he's not. He's 1:31:40.600 --> 1:31:43.920 also not going to betray the rebellion, of course, and 1:31:44.000 --> 1:31:47.559 so you see, and similarly on pharyx Uh. You know, 1:31:47.640 --> 1:31:49.960 there are people who make the choice to rebel, and 1:31:50.000 --> 1:31:52.320 there are people who make the choices side with the empire, 1:31:54.520 --> 1:31:57.120 and you know, I think that's you know, the point 1:31:57.160 --> 1:31:59.720 of the show is that they're and I think something 1:31:59.720 --> 1:32:01.639 to show as well is that you know, these these 1:32:01.760 --> 1:32:05.480 class backgrounds, these cultural backgrounds, they matter. They shape our politics, 1:32:06.439 --> 1:32:09.920 but we do make decisions for ourselves about how we 1:32:10.000 --> 1:32:14.760 interpret those experiences and how we choose to, you know, 1:32:15.600 --> 1:32:19.040 how we choose to try and shape the world as 1:32:19.040 --> 1:32:21.120 a result of them. And it's not just a question 1:32:21.200 --> 1:32:24.200 of robotic you know, insert this background you can get 1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:24.960 this politics. 1:32:26.000 --> 1:32:28.800 Yeah, and for you as a Star Wars fan, you know, 1:32:28.800 --> 1:32:30.800 we're talking about this on a really kind of deep 1:32:31.200 --> 1:32:34.640 political level, and like you said, Rogue One definitely was. 1:32:34.720 --> 1:32:36.599 There was a reason that a lot of Star Wars 1:32:36.640 --> 1:32:39.680 fans loved it, which was, oh, well, this is this 1:32:39.760 --> 1:32:41.640 is the people who have to die before you know, 1:32:41.720 --> 1:32:43.840 Luke and Layer can get a medal. Like, let's talk 1:32:43.880 --> 1:32:47.360 about that and what kind of expands on that exponentially. 1:32:47.720 --> 1:32:49.720 But you know, even as a Star Wars fan, like 1:32:49.720 --> 1:32:54.240 you said, inherently a political franchise, even though usually quite vague, 1:32:54.680 --> 1:32:57.639 I found myself like incredibly surprised. And me and Jason 1:32:57.640 --> 1:33:00.599 have talked about this a lot. To see a a 1:33:00.640 --> 1:33:05.240 prison slavery plot line and to get people on the 1:33:05.280 --> 1:33:08.200 side of people who are in prison, who are being 1:33:08.320 --> 1:33:10.519 exploited for their labor, and then to cheer them on 1:33:11.080 --> 1:33:14.320 for a prison breakout, you know, for a riot and 1:33:14.360 --> 1:33:17.280 to get people on their side. Were you surprised as 1:33:17.320 --> 1:33:19.200 you were watching the show to see the kind of 1:33:19.240 --> 1:33:22.280 political analogs it was taking and the stories they decided 1:33:22.320 --> 1:33:22.719 to tell. 1:33:24.040 --> 1:33:27.000 Yeah, I mean, look, you know that the protagonist is 1:33:28.080 --> 1:33:31.639 a character who's father is a black man who's killed 1:33:31.640 --> 1:33:37.479 by the cops. Like, you know, there's just you know, 1:33:38.120 --> 1:33:41.160 I think that, you know, because of my politics, I think, 1:33:41.280 --> 1:33:43.479 you know, obviously I tend to see some of the 1:33:43.479 --> 1:33:45.320 more left wing and analogies in the story. I think 1:33:45.320 --> 1:33:47.680 there are right wing ones. I mean, I think the 1:33:47.720 --> 1:33:51.920 Empire's violence secularism is obviously you know, in keeping with 1:33:53.120 --> 1:34:00.320 you know, left wing, repressive, left wing regimes around the world. 1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:03.000 Or I don't think that's a mistake, or you know, 1:34:03.120 --> 1:34:06.599 the they are drawn from a lot of Like I said, 1:34:06.640 --> 1:34:08.280 they're drawing from a lot of sources. I don't think 1:34:08.320 --> 1:34:11.960 I was surprised because Rogue One was so clearly playing 1:34:12.000 --> 1:34:16.920 in those waters. I did not expect them to weave 1:34:16.960 --> 1:34:18.920 them so skillfully into the story of the show. In 1:34:18.960 --> 1:34:21.480 such a way that the show does not feel didactic 1:34:21.600 --> 1:34:24.920 to me. You know, when you read out the sort 1:34:24.960 --> 1:34:30.760 of list of plot developments and character motivations and things 1:34:30.840 --> 1:34:34.519 like that, it does feel very political. But in the 1:34:34.560 --> 1:34:38.240 show it feels very organic. It does not feel like 1:34:38.320 --> 1:34:40.800 you are being battered over the head with a particular 1:34:40.960 --> 1:34:45.559 political ideology. Now maybe, you know, maybe that's because I'm 1:34:45.800 --> 1:34:47.800 you know, I'm a left to set a person, so 1:34:48.479 --> 1:34:52.760 that's just I'm sympathetic, But I do think that I 1:34:52.800 --> 1:34:56.120 do think that narratively that you know, it is a 1:34:56.160 --> 1:35:01.160 good show that just happens to have, you know, plot 1:35:01.200 --> 1:35:05.679 points that illustrate a particular kind of politics, but they're 1:35:05.720 --> 1:35:07.320 not the most important thing in the show. The most 1:35:07.320 --> 1:35:10.200 important thing in the show is that the narrative flows 1:35:11.800 --> 1:35:16.640 organically and movingly and artistically, and it's not simply you know, 1:35:17.080 --> 1:35:19.280 battering you over the head with what to think. At 1:35:19.280 --> 1:35:21.200 the same time, again, like look, you know, this is 1:35:21.240 --> 1:35:24.360 Star Wars, like it's an anti imperial the story is 1:35:24.360 --> 1:35:26.760 always going to be antipol It doesn't matter who the who, 1:35:27.160 --> 1:35:30.280 you know, what form the empire takes, whether it's like 1:35:30.360 --> 1:35:32.479 fifty thousand years in the past or whatever, and it's 1:35:32.520 --> 1:35:35.839 a sip empire, or it's you know, the galactic empire 1:35:35.840 --> 1:35:38.080 that we see in the original trilogy or the first 1:35:38.200 --> 1:35:42.480 Order we see in a sequel trilogy. You know that 1:35:42.479 --> 1:35:44.639 that is always you know, in some sense, that kind 1:35:44.680 --> 1:35:48.679 of rebellion is always that anti authoritarian politics is always 1:35:48.720 --> 1:35:49.719 going to be President's story. 1:35:51.080 --> 1:35:54.360 Something that Rosie and I have been really interested in 1:35:54.520 --> 1:35:59.000 discussing and noting is like the seemingly very conscious human 1:35:59.120 --> 1:36:02.400 supremacy of this story. Star Wars is a you know, 1:36:02.479 --> 1:36:05.000 it's a story in a world, in a galaxy populated 1:36:05.040 --> 1:36:09.479 by lots of different species and and droids, but this 1:36:09.560 --> 1:36:15.439 is a story centered around humans, particularly empire. You don't 1:36:15.640 --> 1:36:18.679 see any droids at the highest levels of the decision 1:36:18.680 --> 1:36:24.000 making the ISB. You mostly see people and white people 1:36:24.080 --> 1:36:27.559 and very few women. Even in this kind of like 1:36:27.680 --> 1:36:31.360 nascent rebellion. You know, Sagerera has as a pretty in 1:36:31.560 --> 1:36:35.479 graded crew. But that's it. I wonder if you might 1:36:36.240 --> 1:36:38.760 expound on, you know, what, what do you think the 1:36:39.320 --> 1:36:44.839 human supremacy of this story, you know, means to the story? 1:36:46.040 --> 1:36:48.640 Yeah, I mean I think you know, if you're a 1:36:48.680 --> 1:36:51.200 Star Wars fan, there's a you know that there's a 1:36:51.240 --> 1:36:57.559 long time narrative narrative explanation for this, which is that 1:36:57.760 --> 1:36:59.560 you know, the Empire is racist. The Empire is the 1:36:59.640 --> 1:37:03.639 humans a premicist organization. And you know in Rogue one 1:37:03.680 --> 1:37:07.080 you see you see more weird aliens fighting on the 1:37:07.120 --> 1:37:12.120 beach alongside the rebellion and here in and Or, uh, 1:37:12.560 --> 1:37:16.600 you know, there is a conscious effort to portray the 1:37:16.600 --> 1:37:21.439 protagonists as being sympathetic to droids and aliens in a 1:37:21.479 --> 1:37:24.080 way that the Empire is not. I mean, obviously B 1:37:24.160 --> 1:37:27.920 two Emo is probably the most sympathetic non comic relief 1:37:27.960 --> 1:37:29.719 portrayal of a droid we've ever seen. 1:37:29.880 --> 1:37:33.040 Yeah, he's basically a very very sweet dog, very. 1:37:35.080 --> 1:37:37.160 But and you know, some of that is in Rogue one, 1:37:38.000 --> 1:37:41.800 you know, the the reprogram imperial droid whose name is 1:37:42.439 --> 1:37:44.599 wagon on k K T s O. Right. I mean, 1:37:44.640 --> 1:37:48.880 like you know when when he sacrifices himself, you know, 1:37:48.960 --> 1:37:52.000 and Or is upset he knows his friend is dead. 1:37:52.360 --> 1:37:53.800 I mean, he's so, but he's sort of at the 1:37:53.800 --> 1:37:57.200 same time he treats him like, you know, you're my droid, 1:37:58.040 --> 1:38:01.080 where it's like B two Emo, there is that moment, uh, 1:38:01.160 --> 1:38:02.920 you know where he's like, I don't want to leave 1:38:02.960 --> 1:38:06.200 the house. Yeah, when and he's like, well, I'll stay 1:38:06.200 --> 1:38:08.680 with you, which is like, you know, a level of 1:38:10.120 --> 1:38:13.720 droids are people that I think we haven't seen before, 1:38:15.240 --> 1:38:18.439 so which I think is like, you know, pulling in 1:38:18.520 --> 1:38:20.920 one of the more problematic threads of Star Wars, which 1:38:20.960 --> 1:38:24.240 is that droids are you know, sort of slaves, but 1:38:24.280 --> 1:38:29.280 nobody ever really acknowledges that. But yeah, I mean, I think, 1:38:29.520 --> 1:38:31.360 you know, we see you know, and then we we 1:38:31.400 --> 1:38:33.680 get that moment where they're escaping from the prison and 1:38:33.720 --> 1:38:36.360 they're you know, they try to they try to hot 1:38:36.360 --> 1:38:40.800 wire the ship of two fishing aliens, and aliens could 1:38:41.160 --> 1:38:43.280 turn them in, but they don't instead because they're like, well, 1:38:43.400 --> 1:38:45.560 we're not going to turn them into the Empire. The 1:38:45.600 --> 1:38:48.960 Empire like we don't like those guys. Yeah, you know, 1:38:49.040 --> 1:38:51.760 I think I would expect, I mean, the two things 1:38:51.760 --> 1:38:56.600 that you know, I expect from the second season of 1:38:56.680 --> 1:38:59.879 the show, other than a high body count or problem, 1:39:00.320 --> 1:39:04.920 some explanation, like some further explanation of of like sort 1:39:04.920 --> 1:39:07.720 of lay religion when it comes to the forest that 1:39:07.840 --> 1:39:12.280 we saw on Rogue one, and probably like more dealing 1:39:12.360 --> 1:39:14.599 with aliens, although I think, you know, to some extent 1:39:14.840 --> 1:39:16.760 even though there is a narrative explanation for why you 1:39:16.800 --> 1:39:19.840 don't see so many aliens. You know, I think there's 1:39:19.840 --> 1:39:22.400 probably some budget constraints as well. I mean, I think 1:39:22.400 --> 1:39:25.120 there's probably like one of the reasons and or looks 1:39:25.160 --> 1:39:28.880 so good compared to some other Disney Plus series is 1:39:28.960 --> 1:39:33.880 there's a tremendously well done allocation of budget there where 1:39:35.240 --> 1:39:37.040 the story is done in such a way as to 1:39:37.080 --> 1:39:40.479 require a few moments of like crazy special effects, but 1:39:40.600 --> 1:39:45.280 not as many. You know, you don't have you know, 1:39:45.560 --> 1:39:47.960 you don't have two giant dragons fighting each other or 1:39:47.960 --> 1:39:51.040 something like that. You know what I mean that this 1:39:51.120 --> 1:39:53.920 is a story that it's it's I mean like even 1:39:53.960 --> 1:39:56.040 you know, the sort of final episode like is like 1:39:56.080 --> 1:39:58.080 a Shakespeare play where all the characters are on the 1:39:58.080 --> 1:40:00.360 stage at the same time. Like it's written sort of 1:40:00.439 --> 1:40:05.720 like almost like a play, and so you know, it 1:40:05.760 --> 1:40:09.880 does not require it didn't have. You know, there are 1:40:10.120 --> 1:40:12.960 a couple of moments, like you know, when when Luten 1:40:13.080 --> 1:40:15.040 escapes in his ship that are like obviously, like we 1:40:15.080 --> 1:40:16.760 spend a lot of money on this and it was 1:40:16.880 --> 1:40:21.240 very satisfying, but you know, I don't know how much 1:40:21.280 --> 1:40:23.920 of the lack of aliens is a question of budget 1:40:23.920 --> 1:40:26.679 constraints or how much of it is a demand of narrative. 1:40:26.800 --> 1:40:28.920 But you know, those are always you know, those are 1:40:28.960 --> 1:40:31.679 conflicts that even shows that are fund about the mouse 1:40:31.760 --> 1:40:32.120 have to make. 1:40:32.560 --> 1:40:35.040 Yeah. Yeah, and also as well, like those are the 1:40:35.600 --> 1:40:40.320 confines of the budget can often birth really exciting things. 1:40:40.360 --> 1:40:43.200 So I think the fact that it probably was driven 1:40:43.280 --> 1:40:45.439 by a budget, but then it leads to people having 1:40:45.479 --> 1:40:48.479 conversations like this about whether it's deeper connected to the 1:40:48.560 --> 1:40:52.080 narrative is part of kind of the wonder of these shows. 1:40:52.120 --> 1:40:55.439 I mean, nobody expected a twelve episode Star Wars show 1:40:55.479 --> 1:40:57.920 to look so incredible because we all just assumed it 1:40:57.960 --> 1:41:00.800 was going to be the six episode budget stretched over 1:41:00.840 --> 1:41:04.599 twelve episodes. So it's definitely a surprising tind of event. 1:41:04.720 --> 1:41:07.320 Yeah, I mean it's like it's it's impossible, like how 1:41:07.400 --> 1:41:10.360 do you how do you explain how and or looks 1:41:10.360 --> 1:41:13.000 the way it does in Book of Boba Filix the 1:41:13.000 --> 1:41:14.720 way it does, like how do you know what I mean? 1:41:14.800 --> 1:41:17.120 Like it's this I mean even like let's just take 1:41:17.160 --> 1:41:21.600 away the sort of quality of the writing whatever, you know, 1:41:21.920 --> 1:41:24.320 they these shows look completely different. 1:41:24.439 --> 1:41:27.439 Yeah, the production design of Pheryx is so textured, it 1:41:27.439 --> 1:41:30.840 feels so real. The finale really leans into that, and 1:41:30.880 --> 1:41:34.080 also extras I think that's the biggest thing. There's so 1:41:34.200 --> 1:41:36.240 many people in and Or, but the Book of Boba 1:41:36.320 --> 1:41:41.320 fairt everywhere you go, only six people live there. Doesn't 1:41:41.320 --> 1:41:41.800 feel it. 1:41:41.760 --> 1:41:43.920 Feels it doesn't feel lived in. It feels like you're 1:41:44.000 --> 1:41:45.800 you're you're looking at a set and I'm not even 1:41:45.960 --> 1:41:47.360 I mean, at some point I was questioning, like, how 1:41:47.439 --> 1:41:49.479 much of the Spherics set has been used in like 1:41:49.560 --> 1:41:54.840 other Star Wars shows. Yeah, it's and somehow it feels unrecognizable, 1:41:54.880 --> 1:41:57.320 like you're not like, oh, this is obviously most icily 1:41:58.000 --> 1:42:00.240 you know that's that's not the reaction you have looking 1:42:00.320 --> 1:42:03.720 at Ferrex. You know consciously that this has probably been 1:42:03.840 --> 1:42:06.840 used before, but it's not. It doesn't. It doesn't feel 1:42:06.880 --> 1:42:08.880 that way because of the way they do it. 1:42:09.560 --> 1:42:12.200 To your point, Rosie, I think part of this, another 1:42:12.240 --> 1:42:14.840 thing we've talked about in past discussions of the show 1:42:14.960 --> 1:42:18.400 is this is really tales of the Jedi side, the 1:42:18.439 --> 1:42:21.759 first depiction of mass protest in a Star Wars universe 1:42:21.760 --> 1:42:24.240 that's real, kind of like Battleship potempk and feel of 1:42:24.240 --> 1:42:29.840 an uprising. You know, against impossible imperial odds. We've never 1:42:29.880 --> 1:42:33.360 seen that before in Star Wars, and it really packs 1:42:33.360 --> 1:42:39.360 a kind of emotional and very ambiguous political punch. You know, 1:42:39.400 --> 1:42:42.559 who doesn't love freedom? You know, people people have crossed 1:42:42.560 --> 1:42:45.400 the ideological spectrum love to talk about freedom. But yet 1:42:45.680 --> 1:42:48.599 the I think part of why it looks so great 1:42:48.800 --> 1:42:53.720 is look at all these people here that are protesting 1:42:53.760 --> 1:42:56.719 against the empire. This is incredible to see. 1:42:56.960 --> 1:42:59.880 Yeah, I mean, I think Star Wars. I think that 1:43:00.120 --> 1:43:02.240 truth is that the politics of Star Wars were always 1:43:02.280 --> 1:43:09.040 the sort of you know, nineteenth century republicanism in a 1:43:09.120 --> 1:43:14.160 way that was uncontroversial until recently. Yeah, when people started 1:43:14.400 --> 1:43:21.480 you know, uh being like you know, romanticizing like Francoist 1:43:21.800 --> 1:43:25.479 Spain or something like that. You know, this sort of 1:43:25.520 --> 1:43:30.240 like weird neo falangism that you see amongst you know, 1:43:30.880 --> 1:43:37.479 certain circles. But you know, I think I think to 1:43:37.479 --> 1:43:42.040 some extent, that shift in our own politics is really 1:43:42.040 --> 1:43:45.479 the thing that's changed the most. You know, I think, uh, 1:43:45.640 --> 1:43:49.599 you know, and or has like some reflections of our 1:43:49.800 --> 1:43:54.360 era in terms of you know, uh, mass incarceration, the 1:43:55.240 --> 1:43:59.439 issues that animated the George Floyd protests, you know, questions 1:43:59.479 --> 1:44:04.160 about uh, equal protection under the law. But I think 1:44:04.280 --> 1:44:09.160 it's politics will not seem so radical to us were 1:44:09.200 --> 1:44:12.479 it not for our political context. I'm not sure that 1:44:12.520 --> 1:44:16.920 it will feel that way necessarily to future generations. Yeah, 1:44:16.960 --> 1:44:20.439 I mean, you know Star Wars itself, despite you know, 1:44:20.439 --> 1:44:23.519 the original, despite sort of you know, Lucas saying well, 1:44:23.640 --> 1:44:25.080 you know, the rebels are kind of like the Viet 1:44:25.080 --> 1:44:27.840 Cong or whatever. You know, people didn't interpret it that 1:44:27.880 --> 1:44:30.320 way at the time. Like nobody, nobody who went to 1:44:30.320 --> 1:44:32.880 see Star Wars in nineteen seventy seven. Not nobody, you know, 1:44:32.880 --> 1:44:33.760 I can't say that. 1:44:33.680 --> 1:44:38.599 But yes, the people that were queuing me and four 1:44:38.640 --> 1:44:40.760 times a day to watch the movie. 1:44:40.800 --> 1:44:43.560 Right, people were like laser Stords and spacey you know, 1:44:44.520 --> 1:44:47.400 and like the rebels are us obviously look at these 1:44:47.400 --> 1:44:53.880 British accents. Yeah, and that's that's another thing, like you know, 1:44:53.880 --> 1:44:56.320 this sort of like strain of like irreligion in the Empire. 1:44:56.439 --> 1:44:58.120 It's like, you think about one of the best things 1:44:58.120 --> 1:45:00.920 that Star Wars does. It takes like little threat it's 1:45:01.680 --> 1:45:04.120 from from from previous installments and draws them out. So 1:45:04.280 --> 1:45:06.640 you have, you know, the scene in the first in 1:45:06.680 --> 1:45:09.439 a New Hope, which is like you know, some imperial 1:45:09.439 --> 1:45:12.560 general saying to something you know, uh, you know, you 1:45:12.600 --> 1:45:15.519 don't frighten us with your source service ways, Lord Vader, 1:45:15.600 --> 1:45:18.519 your sad devotion to that ancient religion, you know, just 1:45:18.680 --> 1:45:21.839 like contempt for faith that like you know, then spins 1:45:21.880 --> 1:45:24.479 into like everything we're talking about. Or like there's a 1:45:24.520 --> 1:45:28.000 line in Rogue one where Cheiritt says something about and 1:45:28.120 --> 1:45:30.120 or or like this one has a prison in him 1:45:30.200 --> 1:45:32.320 and he takes it with him wherever he goes. Like 1:45:32.360 --> 1:45:34.280 now you look back at that line, Yeah, you're like 1:45:34.439 --> 1:45:38.519 a holy shit. And this is something that's I mean, 1:45:38.520 --> 1:45:40.479 like you know, this is something that Star Wars does, 1:45:40.560 --> 1:45:44.000 Like you know that scene in In a New Hope 1:45:44.000 --> 1:45:46.840 where Luke runs into the Millennium Falk and he has 1:45:46.920 --> 1:45:50.040 to abandon obi Wan, who you know it is, is 1:45:50.040 --> 1:45:52.599 about to be killed by Vader. You know, that's like 1:45:52.920 --> 1:45:58.080 the last the completion of Order sixty six, except you 1:45:58.080 --> 1:46:00.680 don't know that because it's nineteen seventy seven. But it's 1:46:00.680 --> 1:46:03.959 like that scene where like a padawan has to abandon 1:46:04.000 --> 1:46:07.439 his master who's being killed by the Empire like that. 1:46:07.479 --> 1:46:10.160 We've seen that replay over and over. Yeah, which is 1:46:10.200 --> 1:46:14.160 self you know, which which you know, is it's like 1:46:14.520 --> 1:46:17.639 you can retcon Star Wars in a way that makes 1:46:17.800 --> 1:46:20.160 prior moments that were supposed to be one thing means 1:46:20.200 --> 1:46:23.360 something completely different and being emotionally resonant in a completely 1:46:23.400 --> 1:46:25.200 different way. And it's something that I don't I'm not. 1:46:25.360 --> 1:46:29.400 It's hard to think of another genre or another you know, 1:46:30.120 --> 1:46:34.160 another universe in fictional universe in which that kind of 1:46:34.160 --> 1:46:36.120 thing is really possible in the same way. I mean, 1:46:36.160 --> 1:46:38.639 other people try to do it. I won't mention any names, 1:46:38.640 --> 1:46:40.200 but other people have tried to do it in a 1:46:40.200 --> 1:46:43.280 way that seems like hackey and like just you know, 1:46:43.439 --> 1:46:47.360 trying to preserve a particular brand's relevance for for for 1:46:47.400 --> 1:46:50.439 a certain moment. But with this, it's like people take 1:46:50.479 --> 1:46:53.960 something like like Dave Filonia will take something that was 1:46:54.000 --> 1:46:56.519 in the prequels, the original trilogy and spin it out 1:46:56.600 --> 1:47:00.640 into some narrative complexity that becomes wonderful. And that's and 1:47:00.760 --> 1:47:03.320 or sort of like that on a grand. 1:47:03.000 --> 1:47:06.160 Scale, Yeah, you touched a little bit, I think as well. 1:47:06.200 --> 1:47:10.639 On the trajectory of Star Wars is quite unusual because 1:47:10.640 --> 1:47:12.719 for a long time it was kept alive by these 1:47:12.920 --> 1:47:16.559 you know, expanded universe. Now known as legends novels. So 1:47:16.600 --> 1:47:18.920 in that way, people have always been taking those little 1:47:18.920 --> 1:47:21.320 threads and expanding it out, whether it's a book about 1:47:21.320 --> 1:47:24.599 a character that you didn't realize could have this kind 1:47:24.600 --> 1:47:28.280 of complex interior life. And then that is now continued 1:47:28.280 --> 1:47:32.200 in the way that new creators are taking things and 1:47:32.280 --> 1:47:36.400 collaborating on old ideas to kind of keep the IP going. 1:47:36.720 --> 1:47:39.400 But it's kind of one of the blessings of that 1:47:39.560 --> 1:47:41.759 constraint of, oh, we need to keep this IP alive, 1:47:41.840 --> 1:47:43.760 we need to keep people caring about it. You get 1:47:43.760 --> 1:47:47.040 creators who sometimes come in and see something like Tony 1:47:47.080 --> 1:47:49.559 Gilroy saw and the possibilities of this story to kind 1:47:49.600 --> 1:47:53.960 of tell an entirely different to show an entirely different 1:47:54.040 --> 1:47:58.880 version of what we've seen before. So you wrote your 1:47:58.920 --> 1:48:02.439 piece before this had ended. We are now post to 1:48:02.560 --> 1:48:04.559 the finale of and Or. How do you feel like 1:48:05.920 --> 1:48:08.920 the show hit looking Back is now that you've seen 1:48:08.960 --> 1:48:09.719 the first season. 1:48:12.400 --> 1:48:14.680 I mean, look, it's it's obviously. I think it's one 1:48:14.720 --> 1:48:20.160 of the best interpretations of this universe that we've ever 1:48:20.200 --> 1:48:23.160 seen Artistically from a narrative perspective, I think it's tremendous, 1:48:23.320 --> 1:48:26.639 you know, just in terms of portraying what motivates someone 1:48:26.720 --> 1:48:31.400 to be a rebel or to line up with the empire. 1:48:32.160 --> 1:48:35.240 I think that's just the question that you know, was 1:48:35.280 --> 1:48:38.640 not necessarily previously asked. I mean, I think or at 1:48:38.720 --> 1:48:41.840 least not asked and answered in a way that felt satisfying. 1:48:41.960 --> 1:48:45.800 I mean, when you look at the prequels, you know, 1:48:45.920 --> 1:48:48.120 this is sort of the point of the prequels was 1:48:48.160 --> 1:48:51.200 to say, this is how Darth Vader happened. Yeah, right, 1:48:52.520 --> 1:48:56.680 And you know, the world building in the prequels was 1:48:57.880 --> 1:49:00.760 so good that it created a lot of potential, right, 1:49:01.000 --> 1:49:03.920 but the ultimate narrative of how Darth Vader happened felt 1:49:04.080 --> 1:49:06.320 very unsatisfying for a lot of people. And then you 1:49:06.439 --> 1:49:09.760 had Clone Wars, you know, which really pulled it this 1:49:09.880 --> 1:49:13.040 thread and like portrayed it, like showed this like evolution 1:49:13.240 --> 1:49:19.480 of Anakin as someone who is like slowly being radicalized, 1:49:20.560 --> 1:49:24.439 so that between episode two and episode three, you know, 1:49:24.520 --> 1:49:28.120 Clone Wars gives a tale of how Anakin becomes more 1:49:28.160 --> 1:49:32.839 and more desperate and attached from you know, his own 1:49:32.920 --> 1:49:38.560 self discipline so as to make himself vulnerable to Palpatine's manipulations, 1:49:39.760 --> 1:49:41.960 and that so so again in the Grand Tradition, of 1:49:42.040 --> 1:49:45.240 like Rogue one filling a giant Star Wars plot hole. 1:49:45.320 --> 1:49:49.559 Why would the Empire have a super weapon with such 1:49:49.600 --> 1:49:52.120 an easy way to destroy it? Like, I mean, that's 1:49:52.160 --> 1:49:54.960 what Rogue one is, right, it is a movie that 1:49:55.080 --> 1:49:58.080 is devoted Why did the Empire build something that you 1:49:58.080 --> 1:50:01.360 could destroy so easily with this like one loophole? And 1:50:01.400 --> 1:50:03.960 the answers, Oh, because this guy did it as like 1:50:04.479 --> 1:50:08.559 an act of ultimate revenge against the Empire, Like that's 1:50:08.960 --> 1:50:11.360 you know, in the same grand tradition, Like how why 1:50:11.360 --> 1:50:15.200 does Anakin show up in episode three as like sort 1:50:15.200 --> 1:50:18.760 of a psychopath? And the answers, you know, he's been 1:50:18.760 --> 1:50:22.200 frustrated for the Jedi Order for years. They unfairly expelled 1:50:22.200 --> 1:50:24.439 his potwan they you know, there's all the stuff that 1:50:24.920 --> 1:50:28.240 gets filled in that helps make the narrative return make 1:50:28.280 --> 1:50:30.599 more sense. And I think and Or, you know, both 1:50:30.680 --> 1:50:33.840 Rogue one and and Or gives us that, well, what 1:50:33.960 --> 1:50:38.320 happened before episode four, you know what happened to get 1:50:38.439 --> 1:50:40.599 to how did how is the Rebellion build? It gives 1:50:40.680 --> 1:50:42.559 us these answers in a way that I think is 1:50:42.720 --> 1:50:50.439 extremely satisfying, building on you know, not just the the 1:50:50.800 --> 1:50:54.240 the not just the good parts of the old universe, 1:50:54.280 --> 1:50:56.000 but even the bad part. I mean, that's that's one 1:50:56.000 --> 1:50:57.720 of the great things is that you could take a 1:50:57.720 --> 1:51:00.959 plot hole as big as why is why is destroying 1:51:00.960 --> 1:51:03.759 the Death Star? So as easy as you know, shooting 1:51:03.800 --> 1:51:07.600 a torpedo into an exhaust port and spin like a 1:51:07.640 --> 1:51:11.160 beautiful explanation out of it that is emotionally compelling, And 1:51:11.200 --> 1:51:13.240 it's like again, it's this is a plot hole. This 1:51:13.280 --> 1:51:16.400 is a you know, a flaw in the original storytelling, 1:51:16.800 --> 1:51:20.000 and you know, and they somehow made a great story 1:51:20.040 --> 1:51:22.639 out of it, and that's you know, that's that's part 1:51:22.680 --> 1:51:24.400 of the magic of the universe for me. 1:51:26.280 --> 1:51:29.200 Adam, thank you so much for joining us. Do you 1:51:29.200 --> 1:51:30.080 have anything to plug? 1:51:30.280 --> 1:51:32.960 You know, I'll plug our World Cup newsletter right now. 1:51:33.000 --> 1:51:34.920 The World Cup is going on. This is a whole 1:51:34.960 --> 1:51:38.200 other aspect of of my nerd life, but the World 1:51:38.200 --> 1:51:40.639 Cup is going on. Atlantic has a World Cup news letter, 1:51:40.680 --> 1:51:44.559 The Great Game. I'm not the only person writing it. 1:51:44.840 --> 1:51:47.759 There's a lot of other people writing great writers, Clint Smith, 1:51:48.280 --> 1:51:51.799 Adam Harris, Frank Bower, and I highly recommend it, especially 1:51:51.880 --> 1:51:56.679 if you are not, uh, you know, a super soccer fan. 1:51:56.760 --> 1:51:59.760 This is like more for the people who tune into 1:51:59.760 --> 1:52:03.320 the World Cup every four years. And that's it. Thank 1:52:03.360 --> 1:52:04.639 you so much for having me on the show. 1:52:05.040 --> 1:52:07.240 One last thing do you want to this is your 1:52:07.400 --> 1:52:10.920 this is your opportunity, perfect opportunity to to talk trash 1:52:10.920 --> 1:52:15.680 about Chase Serrano, our mutual in a context that that 1:52:15.920 --> 1:52:18.920 he that might get back to him. And then, uh so, 1:52:19.880 --> 1:52:22.840 any any burns, any roasts of Shay that you'd like 1:52:22.920 --> 1:52:24.599 to share on the program today. 1:52:25.240 --> 1:52:27.200 You know, if you had prepared me, I would have. 1:52:27.280 --> 1:52:31.439 I would have thought one up, made a Google docab, 1:52:33.320 --> 1:52:34.920 I would have made it. I would have made an 1:52:34.920 --> 1:52:39.120 Excel document with all my possible Shay zingers. But it's 1:52:39.120 --> 1:52:42.400 hard though, because we're both like, uh you know, we're 1:52:42.400 --> 1:52:47.960 both like bald, high little hobbits. So you know, it 1:52:47.960 --> 1:52:49.479 gets to like anything I said, what am I going 1:52:49.520 --> 1:52:51.360 to say about Shaye that isn't also true about me? 1:52:53.560 --> 1:52:55.360 But yeah, I just so, I guess that'll kind of 1:52:55.360 --> 1:52:58.360 is my burn look like that? How about that? 1:53:00.040 --> 1:53:03.040 Adam? Thank you so much for joining us. Please take care, gosh, yeah, 1:53:03.080 --> 1:53:11.040 a great day. 1:53:11.960 --> 1:53:12.160 Yeah. 1:53:13.000 --> 1:53:15.320 In today's nerd out, where you theorize about your favorite 1:53:15.360 --> 1:53:18.120 fandoms and tell us what you love and why Liz 1:53:18.320 --> 1:53:22.360 theorizes about the Big Man's possible force sensitive nature in 1:53:22.439 --> 1:53:22.800 and Or. 1:53:23.160 --> 1:53:25.920 Hey, everybody, friend of the program, Liz here with a 1:53:25.960 --> 1:53:29.240 wild and Or theory for you. I'm here to talk 1:53:29.280 --> 1:53:32.960 about the top ten ish reasons that I think that 1:53:33.280 --> 1:53:34.840 the fourth sensitive. 1:53:34.439 --> 1:53:37.400 Character that we have been introduced to is Braso. 1:53:37.920 --> 1:53:39.880 Just gonna throw this out here off the top. I 1:53:39.880 --> 1:53:42.599 am obsessed with this show. It is the best Star 1:53:42.640 --> 1:53:45.519 Wars I have seen in years, maybe ever, I don't know. 1:53:45.680 --> 1:53:48.040 Got to wait some time for that recency bias to clear, 1:53:48.200 --> 1:53:51.160 but I'm obsessed with it, and I'm obsessed with it, 1:53:51.200 --> 1:53:55.400 particularly because it does not follow the same Star Wars formulaic, 1:53:55.920 --> 1:54:00.680 space magic whatever heroes trope that we've all come to 1:54:00.720 --> 1:54:01.280 know and love. 1:54:01.920 --> 1:54:06.800 So I don't want or need a forced sensitive character necessarily. 1:54:06.800 --> 1:54:10.800 However, there are some huge indicators that I've noticed and 1:54:10.800 --> 1:54:13.240 I want to share them here, So right off the bat, 1:54:13.320 --> 1:54:16.640 number ten probably not the strongest, but hey, if you 1:54:16.680 --> 1:54:19.439 look at his outfit, he is wearing pretty much the 1:54:19.479 --> 1:54:22.000 same outfit as one of our other favorite Jedi as 1:54:22.000 --> 1:54:22.559 we Bridger. 1:54:22.600 --> 1:54:23.080 That's right. 1:54:23.200 --> 1:54:27.800 Take a look, folks, orange jumpsuit, kind of a weird thing, 1:54:27.880 --> 1:54:30.040 and He's also not wearing the same clothes as the. 1:54:30.000 --> 1:54:34.280 Rest of his friends and his working group. Number nine. 1:54:34.360 --> 1:54:35.720 He is kind to droids. 1:54:35.760 --> 1:54:40.120 I know that that's not a uniquely Jedi characteristic. However, 1:54:40.440 --> 1:54:44.440 it is almost universally true within the Jedi that they 1:54:44.480 --> 1:54:49.320 are kind to droids and other sentient beings in ways 1:54:49.360 --> 1:54:50.640 that regular humans are not. 1:54:51.720 --> 1:54:52.480 Number eight. 1:54:53.200 --> 1:54:56.360 The word force is used incredibly sparingly in the show. 1:54:56.440 --> 1:54:58.720 I think just a handful of times, and one of 1:54:58.760 --> 1:55:00.160 those times is brus Oh. 1:55:00.400 --> 1:55:02.640 Yes, he is relaying a message from Marva. 1:55:02.640 --> 1:55:05.400 However, you cannot ignore the fact that that word is 1:55:05.440 --> 1:55:08.280 only used a handful of times, and one of those 1:55:08.320 --> 1:55:10.360 times is coming from this man's mouth. 1:55:10.520 --> 1:55:11.240 Number seven. 1:55:11.800 --> 1:55:18.200 There is something so force poetic about using a brick 1:55:18.560 --> 1:55:23.160 made of an anti fascist loved one to beat fascists 1:55:23.800 --> 1:55:25.200 straight up period. 1:55:25.840 --> 1:55:26.640 Number six. 1:55:27.120 --> 1:55:30.840 He has an incredible sense of knowledge and timing that 1:55:31.080 --> 1:55:34.040 I think is a little suspect. For example, in episode three, 1:55:34.840 --> 1:55:37.760 it's implied, or I inferred. 1:55:37.400 --> 1:55:40.000 That he is the one who tied the. 1:55:39.920 --> 1:55:43.839 Corpos shipped down while they were trying to grab Cassian, 1:55:44.040 --> 1:55:46.880 and he is the one who affixed that ship to it, 1:55:47.320 --> 1:55:51.240 causing the pilot to die. That pilot was the one 1:55:51.360 --> 1:55:54.920 who killed Tim. Now to be clear, fucked Tim. He 1:55:55.240 --> 1:55:58.480 fucking ratted on Cassie into the Corpos. All Corpos are 1:55:58.520 --> 1:56:02.080 bastards whatever whatever. Attim did not deserve to die like that. 1:56:02.640 --> 1:56:03.560 Fuck that Corpo. 1:56:04.200 --> 1:56:07.920 Awesome that Brosso seemed to know that this is the 1:56:08.000 --> 1:56:09.640 dude and this is how to get him. 1:56:10.160 --> 1:56:10.880 Number five. 1:56:11.480 --> 1:56:15.240 His sense of timing is also pretty incredible, thinking about 1:56:15.280 --> 1:56:20.560 the fact that he started that funeral with his own 1:56:20.880 --> 1:56:24.160 sort of motion. That funeral was supposed to take place 1:56:24.200 --> 1:56:27.880 several hours after it it actually did, and the timing 1:56:28.000 --> 1:56:31.800 ended up being such that all of the Imperial guards 1:56:31.920 --> 1:56:35.600 were away from the hotel when Cassie and needed them 1:56:35.600 --> 1:56:37.960 to be away so that he could rescue Bicks. Just 1:56:38.000 --> 1:56:42.440 thrown out there, very coincidental timing. Number four. That man 1:56:42.960 --> 1:56:45.600 knows when to go and when to fight. Look at 1:56:45.600 --> 1:56:48.720 episode twelve. He is in the thick of that ride. 1:56:48.720 --> 1:56:53.360 He fucking started that ride rightfully. So how dare that 1:56:53.520 --> 1:56:57.360 Imperial piece of shit? Kick be too emo? My favorite 1:56:57.440 --> 1:57:00.880 joy they have maybe Chopper, but very's wrong contender for 1:57:00.920 --> 1:57:04.760 favor Droid. But he knows when it's time to go, 1:57:05.200 --> 1:57:09.960 And that's also a uniquely Jedi characteristic number three. Knows 1:57:10.040 --> 1:57:14.960 what people are doing and feeling. He knows that Cassian 1:57:15.080 --> 1:57:17.160 has turned a corner when he meets with him in 1:57:17.240 --> 1:57:19.720 that tunnel. He knows that he's going to go and 1:57:19.760 --> 1:57:22.880 rescue Bicks. He knows that Cassian's not going. 1:57:22.760 --> 1:57:23.480 To go with them. 1:57:23.520 --> 1:57:27.160 At the end of episode twelve, he knows that Pegla 1:57:27.240 --> 1:57:28.280 is not going to go with them. 1:57:28.320 --> 1:57:30.120 He just seems to know things about people. 1:57:30.120 --> 1:57:33.160 I think that's very interesting because we don't know anything 1:57:33.200 --> 1:57:35.720 about him. We don't know where he came from, we 1:57:35.800 --> 1:57:37.960 don't know if he has family, we don't know what 1:57:38.040 --> 1:57:39.120 his background is like. 1:57:39.280 --> 1:57:42.560 And that also lends credit to the theory that he's 1:57:42.560 --> 1:57:45.160 for sensitive, because the question of course ariveses this man 1:57:45.240 --> 1:57:46.480 isn't like fifteen years old. 1:57:47.080 --> 1:57:49.680 Where were the Jedi when he was born? How come 1:57:49.720 --> 1:57:52.960 they didn't detect his forced sensitivity? If he's for sensitive, truly, 1:57:53.240 --> 1:57:56.600 we don't know anything about him, and Anakin didn't get detected, 1:57:56.800 --> 1:57:59.040 so there's a possibility that there are other Force users 1:57:59.040 --> 1:58:01.360 out there that didn't get to We now come to 1:58:02.000 --> 1:58:06.000 probably the two biggest components to my theory. Number two, 1:58:06.800 --> 1:58:10.120 that man shook an Imperial detail to go and meet 1:58:10.160 --> 1:58:13.160 with the most wanted man on Ferris in episode twelve 1:58:13.200 --> 1:58:18.920 and give him vital information from Marba, basically bolstering him up, 1:58:19.280 --> 1:58:21.560 allowing him to go and be the hero that he 1:58:21.640 --> 1:58:24.600 needs to be for the day. I think that's pretty 1:58:24.680 --> 1:58:29.960 Jedi and number one, the Imperials nicknamed him the big Man, 1:58:30.600 --> 1:58:37.400 this large target, calmly walked through heavy blaster fire to 1:58:37.560 --> 1:58:42.360 pull out Lill Pop and take him away from danger. 1:58:43.280 --> 1:58:46.560 Didn't get hit, didn't really even seem fluxed. 1:58:47.080 --> 1:58:49.640 That's to me pretty indicative. 1:58:49.920 --> 1:58:50.520 There we go. 1:58:50.800 --> 1:58:54.360 Those are my top ten. Fight me whatever you want 1:58:54.360 --> 1:58:54.560 to do. 1:58:54.800 --> 1:58:56.800 But that's what I thought. I am going to close 1:58:57.200 --> 1:58:59.880 just gushing a little bit. Like I said at the top, 1:59:00.280 --> 1:59:04.160 I'm obsessed with this show. It brings the Star Wars 1:59:04.600 --> 1:59:07.560 themes that I've been so desperate to see right to 1:59:07.600 --> 1:59:09.440 the forefront, without using any of the. 1:59:09.440 --> 1:59:12.360 Tropes that you know Star Wars has come to rely on. 1:59:12.960 --> 1:59:17.320 I am deeply invested in these characters, knowing that most 1:59:17.360 --> 1:59:21.200 of them are doomed, and I cannot wait for next season. 1:59:22.080 --> 1:59:23.600 I'm sure you guys are right there with me. 1:59:24.240 --> 1:59:27.040 Thanks Liz for submitting. Thank you everyone who's submitted to 1:59:27.120 --> 1:59:29.600 Nerd outs this year and stay tuned for the return 1:59:29.640 --> 1:59:34.000 of the segment in twenty twenty three. Huge thank you 1:59:34.040 --> 1:59:37.960 to Adam Sewerr and of course Rosy Knight, Rosie Plugs, 1:59:38.000 --> 1:59:43.720 Plugs Plugs, Can you give us one other very vague 1:59:43.960 --> 1:59:48.480 clue about an upcoming secret project that you have? 1:59:48.600 --> 1:59:50.840 You know, I can actually say, because this is true 1:59:50.840 --> 1:59:52.760 of a few different things. Yes, I am working. The 1:59:52.800 --> 1:59:55.160 project I'm working on at the moment also has art 1:59:55.160 --> 1:59:58.280 by the incredible Oliver Ono, so I can say that. 1:59:58.320 --> 2:00:02.560 So it's a ret and that's a couple of different things, 2:00:02.560 --> 2:00:07.720 So that's very exciting. Plugs Rosie marks. On Instagram you 2:00:07.800 --> 2:00:12.600 can find me and letterbox under the same thing. My 2:00:12.720 --> 2:00:15.880 biggest plug would be that we are going to be 2:00:16.280 --> 2:00:19.240 at We're gonna be La Comic Con. If you listen 2:00:19.280 --> 2:00:21.600 to this on Friday, we will be there on Saturday, 2:00:22.120 --> 2:00:22.880 come and see us. 2:00:22.880 --> 2:00:23.320 I'm through. 2:00:24.000 --> 2:00:26.120 We will be there tomorrow. It's going to be our 2:00:26.160 --> 2:00:29.560 first live comic com recording. You should come. It will 2:00:29.560 --> 2:00:33.200 be really fun and yeah, it we'll just be It 2:00:33.240 --> 2:00:36.080 will be a blast and eli Comicon's pray chill compared 2:00:36.120 --> 2:00:37.640 to the other comic cons. 2:00:40.960 --> 2:00:44.520 Catch our next episode on December ninth. Don't forget to 2:00:44.520 --> 2:00:47.720 subscribe to the show on YouTube and follow at xrvpod 2:00:47.760 --> 2:00:50.600 on Twitter who knows for how much longer, and check 2:00:50.640 --> 2:00:53.040 out the discord and me to hang out with other 2:00:53.320 --> 2:00:56.240 X ray Vision fans. Rosie and I are there. We 2:00:56.280 --> 2:00:59.360 are interacting and communicating with everybody there and it's really 2:00:59.400 --> 2:01:03.520 fun community. Of course, as Rosie said, La Comic Con 2:01:03.640 --> 2:01:07.400 tomorrow December third, Saturday, December third at eleven thirty am 2:01:07.520 --> 2:01:10.360 and Room four h two come through and see us 2:01:10.400 --> 2:01:12.680 five star reviews. We love them, we need them, We 2:01:12.800 --> 2:01:15.760 got to have them. Here's one from Hop Jake, a 2:01:15.800 --> 2:01:17.840 show I never missed. Jason and Rosie have such great 2:01:17.880 --> 2:01:20.480 chemistry together. When they make each other laugh, you can't 2:01:20.480 --> 2:01:22.640 help but smile as if you're all sitting at a 2:01:22.680 --> 2:01:26.800 table with friends nerding out. Thank you, Hop Jake, that's 2:01:26.800 --> 2:01:29.760 so awesome, and thanksgivings over. But we want to special 2:01:29.760 --> 2:01:31.960 thank you to everybody who's been listening to the pod 2:01:32.480 --> 2:01:36.400 and everybody who's been sharing your Spotify wraps. You're end 2:01:36.800 --> 2:01:38.960 wrap ups of all the stuff you've been listening to 2:01:39.080 --> 2:01:42.240 on that platform that have included X ray Vision and 2:01:42.280 --> 2:01:44.560 have tagged us in it. That's so nice of you. 2:01:45.080 --> 2:01:47.760 Thank you so much, thank you. I wanted to quickly 2:01:47.800 --> 2:01:52.240 share a note with you about someone who's added a 2:01:52.240 --> 2:01:56.960 lot to X ray Vision. Brian Vasquez, who composed and 2:01:57.000 --> 2:02:01.000 produced the music x ray Vision to takeline to various 2:02:01.000 --> 2:02:05.960 other Cricket pods and also compose the interstitial music, has 2:02:06.040 --> 2:02:09.560 recently been diagnosed with leukemia. It's very unfortunate that we 2:02:09.600 --> 2:02:15.080 live in a country where people who fall ill then 2:02:15.200 --> 2:02:18.240 have to ask for money, but here we are. His 2:02:18.400 --> 2:02:21.200 family has set up a GoFundMe. If you want to 2:02:21.280 --> 2:02:25.720 support him and give best wishes to his family, you 2:02:25.760 --> 2:02:29.360 can find information about that on the show notes. We're 2:02:29.360 --> 2:02:33.000 wishing the best for Brian and he's in our thoughts. 2:02:34.200 --> 2:02:36.080 X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show 2:02:36.120 --> 2:02:37.840 is produced by Chris Lord and Soul Rubin. The show 2:02:37.880 --> 2:02:40.840 is executive produced by myself and Sandy's Rhard Are editing 2:02:40.840 --> 2:02:44.880 and sound designers by Vascillis Fatopoulos, Dilon Villanueva and Matt 2:02:45.000 --> 2:02:48.520 Group provide video production support. Alex Rellaford handle social media. 2:02:48.560 --> 2:02:52.200 Thank you Brian Vasquez for theme music. See you next time, 2:02:52.480 --> 2:03:00.080 everybody e