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Speaker 1: Warning, this podcast candad spoilers for the finale of and

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Speaker 1: Or and some minor spoilers for the film Rogue one

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Speaker 1: Book of It. Hello, my name is Jason Cantepsion and

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Speaker 1: welcome to x ray Vision, the Cricket podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, it's the big and Or finale episode.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be discussing the and Or finale, and the

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Speaker 1: Airlock and the Hive Mind more and Or with Atlantic

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Speaker 1: staff writer Adam Sewer, who wrote a really really interesting

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Speaker 1: piece in The Atlantic about the show, and in nerd Out,

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Speaker 1: Liz theorizes about an and Or character's possible connection to

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Speaker 1: the Force And of course, if you want to jump around,

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Speaker 1: check the show notes for time stamps Enemy Today. She's

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Speaker 1: the only one that knows what happened on Canari. She

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Speaker 1: is a daughter of Ferris. She knows all about Sagarera's extremism,

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Speaker 1: but she's not gonna talk about it anywhere else but here.

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Speaker 1: She is the great, the powerful Rosie Night, Rosie, how

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Speaker 1: are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm good? Tell her it's true. I saw was right.

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Speaker 2: I just need to say that she was apologist. He

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Speaker 2: was always right.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about this at length because he continues

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Speaker 1: to write he was right early, he's still right, and

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Speaker 1: he will continue to be right. Yep, and he just

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Speaker 1: does not get the credit he deserves. How is your Thanksgiving?

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Speaker 2: It was a very good chill time. I ate food

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Speaker 2: with my friends and I watched a lot of movies

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Speaker 2: and worked on a very cool secret project. I can't

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Speaker 2: talk about proper break, but it was nice to just

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Speaker 2: be able to give slow down.

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Speaker 1: Can you give like one very very vague hint.

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Speaker 2: It is a comic book format. It's in the comic

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Speaker 2: book formats. That's the end I can give you. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I missed, I missed being hand talking to you. But

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Speaker 2: it was is nice to to just take some time

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Speaker 2: and nice to be able to like really dig in

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Speaker 2: to and Or and kind of watch it and take

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Speaker 2: in that unreal finale before we kind of dig into

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Speaker 2: it here.

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Speaker 1: I had I had family in town. Oh lovely went

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Speaker 1: all around. I baked bread. We realized that we realized

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Speaker 1: that one of our family members who had COVID like

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Speaker 1: two months ago and has been like, oh, my taste

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Speaker 1: hasn't come back. My taste hasn't come back stuff tastes weird.

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Speaker 1: We realized when they were here that what was going

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Speaker 1: on is their taste had come back at a certain point.

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Speaker 1: They're just eating bad food.

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Speaker 2: Where you will in La and you will eat some

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Speaker 2: food and you will know the flavors will be there

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Speaker 2: as soon as you know.

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Speaker 1: We like, ordered some Italian from Jonavitti's and and immediately

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Speaker 1: it was like this Pesto's delicious. Holy holy cow. Like

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Speaker 1: what looks like the taste is back, ladies, and that's wonderful.

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Speaker 1: I'll have it back. Okay, let's get into it. Let's

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Speaker 1: get into the andor finale. It's runoff time. Early voting

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Speaker 1: starts Monday, November twenty eighth for the December sixth election.

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Speaker 1: If you're a Georgia voter, head over to vote Save

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Speaker 1: America dot com to make your plan and if you

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Speaker 1: want to help out, no matter where you live, you

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Speaker 1: can donate and find remote and in person volunteer opportunities

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Speaker 1: to make sure the Warnock campaign as the resources it needs.

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Speaker 1: Fifty one senators means the difference between a true majority

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Speaker 1: or being faced with another two years of roadblocks like

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Speaker 1: problem Children, Kristen Cinema Boo and Joe Manchin Boo make

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Speaker 1: sure that every Georgia voter can make their voice heard

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Speaker 1: again at Vote Save America dot com. We're stepping out

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Speaker 1: of the airlock into the streets of Ferrik as the

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Speaker 1: mournful but also inspiring funeral March is playing, and we're

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Speaker 1: here to talk about the finale of and or Rix Road.

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Speaker 1: Written by Tony Gilroy, directed by Benjamin Karen gron Feryx.

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Speaker 1: It is the day of Marv's funeral. Deirdre arrives on planet.

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Speaker 1: She meets with all her imperial underlings, and you know,

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Speaker 1: takes a peek into Bix's cell through the porthole. Elsewhere,

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Speaker 1: Zen meets with Brasso after Brasso's shift, and Zen tells

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Speaker 1: Brasso that, hey, I just got to call from Cassian.

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Speaker 1: What that's right? I think Cassio Cassian's coming home. He

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Speaker 1: knows that Marva died. Meanwhile, the ISB is all over Ferix.

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Speaker 1: They're crawling all over the streets, keeping a very close

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Speaker 1: eye on Brasso. They're watching this this interaction happen. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: also watching this interaction happen is Synta of the al

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Speaker 1: Donnie Crue. They are waiting also for Cassian to show

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Speaker 1: up because they would like to kill Cassian and close

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Speaker 1: that loose end. Later, Nerchi, the Frexian junk dealer, who

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Speaker 1: is now informing to the ISB with absolute alacrity, is

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Speaker 1: giving up every He can't wait to give it all up,

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Speaker 1: wants to do it, wants to get off this this

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Speaker 1: dust bowl of a planet. Is meeting Zan for a

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Speaker 1: drink and he's like, you know, He's like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's got to be who's going to place Marva's Stone,

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Speaker 1: And that's got to be really eating at Cassian and

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Speaker 1: that's got to be so tough. And she is plays

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Speaker 1: this very very, very very candily because he can kind

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Speaker 1: of tell that Zan has some information. But then Nerchi

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Speaker 1: covers it up by saying, Hey, if you know anything,

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Speaker 1: keep it to yourself, don't tell me. But like can

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Speaker 1: tell by the way that Zan is like stewing over

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Speaker 1: his drink and clearly wants to say something that he

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Speaker 1: knows something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is a great bit of foreshadowing too.

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Speaker 2: Who will be there to place Marva's Stone. Don't worry.

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Speaker 2: The stone will come in use in one of the

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Speaker 2: most memorable scenes and you will see who places it

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Speaker 2: and where they place it, and it's so good because

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Speaker 2: that line just gets me.

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Speaker 1: Elsewhere, we see Wilman, who is the son of Solomon,

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Speaker 1: a man who was previously in the series tortured by

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Speaker 1: the ISB. We see him assembling some kind of device

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Speaker 1: which we take to be a bomb on Coruscant. Mon

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Speaker 1: is waiting in the limo for Paren. He gets in,

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Speaker 1: they go off to ride off together, and then Man

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Speaker 1: starts this argument with Paren where she confronts him about

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Speaker 1: his gambling. How long have you been doing it? I

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Speaker 1: can't believe you're gambling again. If you want to do that,

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Speaker 1: you know, go to Canto bite to do that, but

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Speaker 1: don't do that here, and don't lie to me about

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Speaker 1: it it and parents like, what the fuck are you

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Speaker 1: talking about?

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Speaker 2: Like why are you guying on about? He's like many

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Speaker 2: he does many things wrong, this man, But gambling is

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Speaker 2: doesn't seem like I kind.

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Speaker 1: Of clean that. I've cleaned that up. I haven't been gambling.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly not, on course not. Somebody is getting in

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Speaker 1: your ear. They're trying to tear you down by attacking me.

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Speaker 1: And anyway where would I get the money? And and

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Speaker 1: Mon Is like, that's the thing that scares me the most.

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Speaker 1: And of course all of this whole discussion is is

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Speaker 1: for the benefit of Clorus, who man knows their driver, Clorus,

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Speaker 1: who man knows it is an ISB agent slash informer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she's setting up her husband to basically take the

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Speaker 2: fall for whenever this audit comes around.

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Speaker 1: She's laying the right where my husband's My husband gambled

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Speaker 1: it away.

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Speaker 2: He gambled it away. And you know what, you know,

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Speaker 2: I didn't just come up with this as an excuse,

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Speaker 2: because didn't my driver. I tell you that six months

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Speaker 2: ago right now, And.

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Speaker 1: It's actually super super smart that said, we know there's

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Speaker 1: an and or season two, and you have to feel

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Speaker 1: that this is not a permanent fix. Like this will

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Speaker 1: buy her some time. Sure as they untangle this and

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Speaker 1: try to figure it out, maybe follow Parent around, you know,

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Speaker 1: like this will force the ICEP to spend some assets

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Speaker 1: on Parent and see if he is really gambling. But

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Speaker 1: ultimately the ISB will run this down and will figure

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Speaker 1: out that that's not.

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Speaker 2: Especially because even if they don't figure out what she's

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Speaker 2: actually been using the money for, they will know that

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Speaker 2: she got the loan from Davos. They will find that

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Speaker 2: out at some point and the question is how reliable

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Speaker 2: is that man now that their families are connected through

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Speaker 2: their children. Is he going to protect them? Will he

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Speaker 2: sell them one down the river? This could be I

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Speaker 2: think a big thread that we see in season two.

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Speaker 2: Does Mon get isolated from her wealthy family and her background,

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Speaker 2: then does that radicalize her or does she have to

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Speaker 2: just set allow people that she loves to protect us

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Speaker 2: status so that she can stay in that place for

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Speaker 2: spray a rebellion.

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Speaker 1: I wonder there is a great scene in the Great

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Speaker 1: Series Rebels. I want to say it's like season two

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Speaker 1: or three where Mon gives the speech that basically announces

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Speaker 1: that the rebellion exists.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: She gives that video speech where she's like, Hey, we

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Speaker 1: have to fight the Empire. I am denouncing the Emperor today,

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Speaker 1: I am resigning from the Senate. If you want to

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Speaker 1: fight the Empire, come meet us in space and let's

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Speaker 1: do that, and let's do this basically founding that the

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Speaker 1: foundational moment of the rebel alliance. I wonder if we

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Speaker 1: get a version, not like a retcon per se, but

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Speaker 1: if we see that from the other side, because that

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Speaker 1: would be pretty fun to I think see the Tony

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Speaker 1: Gilroy version of the monds Like.

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Speaker 2: That's why I was going to say, come out one.

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Speaker 2: We know how much the shows and the animated series

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Speaker 2: have kind of leant into each other and become very

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Speaker 2: and entwined, especially because Filoni's behind a lot of the

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Speaker 2: other live action shows. It will be very interesting as

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Speaker 2: we move forward towards the time that we know in

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Speaker 2: the main Star Wars timeline to see how those moments intersect,

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Speaker 2: and to see what Tony translates from Rebels and Clone

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Speaker 2: War was honestly shows that without which and are still

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Speaker 2: probably wouldn't exist because those shows were what made Star

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Speaker 2: Wars television a viable possibility. But like you say, it

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Speaker 2: would be fun to see Tony Gilroy translating some of

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Speaker 2: those moments from what many people still essentially see as

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Speaker 2: like a kid's TV show. In this the least kid's

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Speaker 2: friendly Star Wars show of all time. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Back on, feryx Vell meets her partner the safe house

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Speaker 1: since to updates vel about all the movements of the

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Speaker 1: ISB agents, various ISBA agents around town. They know they

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Speaker 1: have to be very careful. She is ready to kill

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Speaker 1: Cassian and or this.

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Speaker 2: She is a business. She is not about it, Santa

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Speaker 2: is about it.

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Speaker 1: She is ready to pop him to save the network

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Speaker 1: as soon as he shows his face. And yes, you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right. Vell throughout this episode and the previous episode

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Speaker 1: is really troubled by this. Whatever. She just gets a

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Speaker 1: vibe from Cassian, not to mention, he was really the

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Speaker 1: most competent member of the Al Dani, Like, they would

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Speaker 1: not have pulled it off if not for him, and

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Speaker 1: so the idea of double crossing him, stabbing him in

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Speaker 1: the back in order to keep him out of imperial

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Speaker 1: hands really really bothers her. You can you can really

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Speaker 1: really tell?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think as well, like the the privileged

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Speaker 2: background that she comes from, ASM's sista, she even though

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Speaker 2: she wants to leave it behind her, it is the

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Speaker 2: safety of it I think is drawing her back. She

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Speaker 2: wants to she did the Al Dannie, Wasn't that enough?

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Speaker 2: She doesn't really know that it's a continuous struggle, whereas

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Speaker 2: Cinta is very much in the mindset of like, I

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Speaker 2: will do what has to be done for as long

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Speaker 2: as it needs to be done. More of that Looth

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Speaker 2: in school absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Cassian arrives back on Ferris and he finds Clem's brick

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Speaker 1: in the streets. Marv's partner is essentially the man who

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Speaker 1: raised him as a father, and he remembers a moment

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Speaker 1: where Clem was teaching him to, you know, how to

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Speaker 1: clean salvage equipment. And there's this wonderful, like small moment

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Speaker 1: of like see, like most people wouldn't even look to

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Speaker 1: see what's actually underneath all of this stuff. And he's

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Speaker 1: thinking about that, and then he heads over to Bix's

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Speaker 1: shop and she's not there, but Pegla is there. And

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Speaker 1: it's from Peg that Cassian learns that Bix is in

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Speaker 1: the hands of the isb Cassian kind of a steel himself,

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Speaker 1: goes off and listens to some of Nemeck's manifesto and

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Speaker 1: it is elect It is truly like electrifying stuff, the

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff you can't believe that.

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Speaker 2: Shall we read it? I have it?

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Speaker 1: Yes, read it?

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Speaker 2: Okay. In Star Wars, there will be times when the

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Speaker 2: struggle seems impossible. I know this already alone, unsure, dwarfed

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Speaker 2: by the scale of the enemy. Remember this freedom is

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Speaker 2: a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random

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Speaker 2: acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There

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Speaker 2: are whole armies, battalions that have no idea that they

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Speaker 2: have already enlisted in the cause. Yeah, I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: incredible stuff, and the performance is so great, like it

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Speaker 2: just it's the first of two incredible speeches of this finale.

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Speaker 2: This one is my favorite. But it gets you so good.

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Speaker 1: It really just makes you think. Obviously, in recent years,

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Speaker 1: Man's role in the rebellion has been it was always

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Speaker 1: clear that she was incredibly important, but with Rebels and

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Speaker 1: Rogue One and some of the books and stuff like,

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Speaker 1: it's become clear what a pivotal character she was. And

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Speaker 1: then it's also clear that supporting her are people like

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Speaker 1: Nemeck who provided we're seeing a lot of the philosophical

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Speaker 1: framework for the struggle, and people like Marva who provided

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Speaker 1: a lot of like the emotional impetus and inspiration for

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Speaker 1: the struggle, who we just are never going to hear about.

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Speaker 1: They're certainly never going to get a medal. They are

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Speaker 1: not like revered heroes of the rebellion, and it is

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Speaker 1: really amazing to learn about them here. And also the

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Speaker 1: other thing I was thinking about is like that the

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Speaker 1: idea of like freedom, you know, being an organic and

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Speaker 1: natural idea that just springs up when you are restrained,

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Speaker 1: when you feel less free, you want to struggle against that.

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Speaker 1: That's natural. I've been thinking a lot about that with this,

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Speaker 1: with this story, and thinking a lot about how, you know,

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Speaker 1: something we talk about a lot, which is bad guys

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Speaker 1: don't think about themselves as bad guys. They think they're

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Speaker 1: doing good. I remember, you know, reading in any number

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Speaker 1: of histories of the Civil War, reading about how, for

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Speaker 1: you know, the Southern slavery class ahead of the Civil War,

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Speaker 1: freedom slavery was absolutely in line with their definition of

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Speaker 1: freedom because it meant freeing themselves from ever having to

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Speaker 1: do manual labor, which they saw as like work, not

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Speaker 1: befitting like gentlemen.

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Speaker 2: And and.

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Speaker 1: It just has me that that idea and Nemics manifesto

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Speaker 1: just has me thinking about how much these kind of

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Speaker 1: powerful but amorphous ideas like freedom oppression can be aimed

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Speaker 1: and reconstituted and targeted in a million different ways by

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Speaker 1: people who are really being sincere but are also like

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Speaker 1: completely diluted. Yeah, in the true meaning of the word

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Speaker 1: freedom or the nature of oppression. I mean, we're dealing

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Speaker 1: with a lot of that in our world today.

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Speaker 2: And I think there has been readings from certain different

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Speaker 2: groups of and or that supports their ideas of like

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Speaker 2: what freedom is to do with like January sixth and

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Speaker 2: stuff like that. What I love is the speech is

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Speaker 2: much longer, right, And there's this line that Nemic says

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Speaker 2: where he says, the imperial need for control is so

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Speaker 2: desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort,

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Speaker 2: It breaks, it leaks, Authority is brittle, and oppression is

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Speaker 2: the mask of fear. And I love that because that's

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Speaker 2: when it does that Tony Gilroy thing where there's this

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Speaker 2: vagary to it. But then you do the twist where

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Speaker 2: it's like we are talking about fascists here, and the

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Speaker 2: reason they want to oppress you, and the reason they

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Speaker 2: have to fight so hard to do it, and the

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Speaker 2: reason they need to be militarized and have weapons is

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Speaker 2: because it's so unnatural what they want for other people

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Speaker 2: to not be free, you know. And I love that idea,

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Speaker 2: and also, you know, talking about kind of the current

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Speaker 2: politics of what translates here. This is also very interesting

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Speaker 2: because one of the most regular talked about kind of

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Speaker 2: points about protests is something that people can't stop is

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Speaker 2: multiple tiny protests all over a city or a country.

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Speaker 2: If you have one big protest, it's easy to stop it.

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Speaker 2: If you have multiple rebellions or tiny gatherings, there are

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Speaker 2: never enough people to stop it. So it's very interesting

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Speaker 2: once again to see Tony Gilroy bring that contemporary idea

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Speaker 2: of protests and rebellion and put it into the context

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Speaker 2: of Star Wars.

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Speaker 1: Elsewhere, Deirdre is running her team through the ISB her

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Speaker 1: plan base, her action plan for Marve's funeral. They're going

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Speaker 1: to have Rickx Road covered from every angle, but no

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Speaker 1: snipers because Deirdre wants him taken alive. Okay, they need

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Speaker 1: a living witness, and that's a big deal. Now. I

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Speaker 1: think this is going to be something when we go

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Speaker 1: to season two that Deirdre is going to be called

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Speaker 1: to the carpet about. I think that I would expect

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Speaker 1: in season two that one Deirdre is going to blame

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Speaker 1: other people for the failure to uh to to grab

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Speaker 1: Cassie and or one and identify the contact. And two

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Speaker 1: she is going to be blamed herself for not having

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Speaker 1: enough lethal force ready to like put this whole thing down.

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Speaker 2: Which is really funny. She's not doing it because she's

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Speaker 2: some kind person who doesn't want to kill people. She

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Speaker 2: wants control and to understand the greater plans of the rebellion.

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Speaker 2: So she's like, well, we need people who know what's

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Speaker 2: going on, so I can torture them and ask them

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Speaker 2: what's going on. But it's probably going to be played

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Speaker 2: out because we've seen this misogynistic hierarchy within the empire.

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Speaker 2: It's probably going to be played out as if she's

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Speaker 2: a woman, she couldn't do what needed to be done,

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Speaker 2: she couldn't bring the lethal force to control the rebels.

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Speaker 1: Certainly, Blevin of the ISB is waiting in the wings

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Speaker 1: for the downfall of yes of Deirdre. We go to Corroussant,

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Speaker 1: go to ISB headquarters. Chlorus, the driver is informing Blevin

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Speaker 1: about this argument that mon and Paren had and they're

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out what does this mean. Then Blevin

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Speaker 1: is called away because the Kreeger raid is happening. The

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Speaker 1: Kreeger operation is happening right now, and the result of

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Speaker 1: that operation is Anton Kreeger and his entire crew of

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Speaker 1: f men thy men are gone. There there are no survivors,

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Speaker 1: no one to interrogate. Now Deirdre is pretty wound up

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Speaker 1: about this, and she is on the horn with major

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Speaker 1: part of Gas and she's like, you know, someone's got

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Speaker 1: to say that we're never going to unravel this thing

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Speaker 1: if we don't have someone to talk to. Somebody's got

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Speaker 1: to be in the room saying that. Part of is like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you don't get it. This is about uh, wiping the

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Speaker 1: taste of Aldanni out of the Emperor's mouth, because if

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Speaker 1: the Emperor is feeling anxious, none of us will be

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Speaker 1: able to do our jobs. So you you want prisoners,

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Speaker 1: You want to be able to have a conversation about

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Speaker 1: the way this operation is being run. Find the contact,

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Speaker 1: find Axis aka Luthen who they don't know who that

353
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Speaker 1: person is. Elsewhere the isb that is watching Brasso realize

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Speaker 1: they've been fooled. It's Brasso that they're watching hanging out

355
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Speaker 1: at Marv's. It's actually a Brasso double he Brasso himself

356
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Speaker 1: has slipped down into the sewers where he's meeting with Cassian.

357
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Speaker 1: Brasso tells Cassian that Marva wanted him to know that

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Speaker 1: none of this is his fault and that she loved him,

359
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Speaker 1: and very touchingly, she said she told Brasso to tell

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Speaker 1: Cassian that she loved him more than anything he could

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Speaker 1: ever do wrong, which is such a powerful, a powerfully

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Speaker 1: Star Wars sentiment in which, you know, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is a story in which we actively forgive people who

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Speaker 1: take part in the wiping out of planets and the

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Speaker 1: massacring of children, and so that is just a very

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Speaker 1: very Star Wars thing to utter. Brasso promises that he

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Speaker 1: will take care of Marva's stone, and boy does he. He doesn't.

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Speaker 2: He takes care of v and he uses it to

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Speaker 2: take care of business.

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Speaker 1: Luthen makes content with Vell just out on the street.

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Speaker 2: Also, yeah, wearing his fifth best. Yeah, he's not like

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Speaker 2: a black heerd. He's looking very villainous.

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Speaker 1: Let's can we talk about this, Yeah, Tony Gilroy, of

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Speaker 1: course from Rogue one even give us any Jedi in that.

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Speaker 1: But certainly we would assume that Chiroot is.

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Speaker 2: At least more sensitive.

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Speaker 1: I wonder, I mean, clearly, the robes make you think Jedi,

378
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Speaker 1: make you think sith. I wonder if lucent is one sensitive.

379
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Speaker 2: And the Kaiber crystal, he definitely has a connection to

380
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Speaker 2: the force, to the ideas of the Jedi, even if

381
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Speaker 2: the word are not is not being you know, uttered

382
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Speaker 2: and I know that our guest Adam here he has

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Speaker 2: some thoughts on that too that are quite like theory focused.

384
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Speaker 2: So but definitely the robes, they're meant to make you

385
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Speaker 2: think like, oh, I mean, he's wearing black robes, he's

386
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Speaker 2: got them over his face. Could just be a manifestation

387
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Speaker 2: of the way he sees himself. We know he sees

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Speaker 2: himself as the enemy, as someone who's fallen, who's done

389
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Speaker 2: these terrible things. But the Kaiber Crystal, you know, the

390
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Speaker 2: sky Kaiber. I'm thinking.

391
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Speaker 1: Maybe he's like a Jeda native.

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Speaker 2: I do want I wonder about you too. I wonder if

393
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Speaker 2: there's something some connection to that space or just maybe

394
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Speaker 2: a friend or a family member who was forced sensitive,

395
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Speaker 2: who was a Jedi, who knows. I'm very interested because

396
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Speaker 2: they really play into it in this episode with the

397
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Speaker 2: way that they dress Luthor, and we know that costuming

398
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Speaker 2: in Star Wars is really a coincidence. Lots of thought

399
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Speaker 2: goes into that.

400
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Speaker 1: So Luthen tells Velle that oh, this is perfect, that

401
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Speaker 1: there's so many isb here, and she's like, what the

402
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Speaker 1: fuck are you talking about? And he's like, listen, we

403
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Speaker 1: we don't have to hunt Cassi and we let them

404
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Speaker 1: do it, and then when they find him, we kill

405
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Speaker 1: him before they can take them away to interrogram. It's

406
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Speaker 1: very very easy. Now, let's go to the hotel where

407
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Speaker 1: we can wait them out. Then the bell tower starts

408
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: a clanging. It's the funeral. The funeral is starting. The

409
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Speaker 1: marching band, which has been warming up, now begins to

410
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Speaker 1: play their funeral dirge. The parade is moving slowly through

411
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Speaker 1: the streets. There is Brasso holding marve Stone in front

412
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Speaker 1: of him. B two Emo is rolling along with him,

413
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Speaker 1: various other notable figures from Ferrexian Society or i'll here.

414
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Speaker 1: Imperial officers are getting very very anxious. Any kind of

415
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Speaker 1: display of of of the people, any kind of mask gathering,

416
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Speaker 1: is a thing that they're just going to be very

417
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Speaker 1: very nervous about it.

418
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Speaker 2: And they're definitely starting to realize that they're outnumbered, which

419
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Speaker 2: is the way. There's always more people than that are

420
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: a practice. There's a reason just whether people are together

421
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Speaker 2: or not.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason they're building a death star, and that's

423
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Speaker 1: because they don't have enough people to put everywhere in

424
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Speaker 1: the galaxy. Cassian is watching all of this unfold from

425
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Speaker 1: his hiding space, and he spots Luthen in the crowd. Meanwhile,

426
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: Nurci makes who believes that he has found where Cassian

427
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Speaker 1: is hiding, and in fact he has makes contact with

428
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Speaker 1: his imperial Hando is like, okay, pretend to arrest me.

429
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Speaker 1: I'll take it, and he gets arrested, and then he's like, listen,

430
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Speaker 1: I know where Cassian is. I want double the reward

431
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: right now, and you get me off the planet immediately,

432
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: like no waiting, no passco, no next week, next month,

433
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: I want to go now. Deetra and the is bgoons.

434
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: They prepare to move in on Cassian's location, but again

435
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: Deetro's like, alive, alive, alive a lot? How many times

436
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: I had to say we take him alive? The funeral

437
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: parade stops Brasso and be moved to the head of

438
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: the column in her cell. There's this wonderful moment where

439
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: Bix is kind of like hearing the funeral music, and

440
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: she's like slowly kind of like stirring. Of course, she's

441
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: been like heavily traumatized by the torture she's been she's

442
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: been submitted to, and all of a sudden, the band

443
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: changes to like an upbeat marching number and the column

444
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: begins moving with a real purpose. Death troopers now are

445
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: closing in on Cassian's hiding place, but he's not there.

446
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: He slipped back into the sewers. And now the crowd

447
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: is chanting Stone and Sky, Stone and Sky, Stone and

448
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: Sky and then b pops a little hatch on the

449
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: top of his little head and begins to play a

450
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: hologram message which Marva recorded some time before she passed,

451
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: and she talks about how much she loves Feryx, the

452
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: culture of Farex, what makes it important Feryx's kind of

453
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: positioning in the Empire is this kind of like place

454
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: of salvage where they've all just kind of ignored the

455
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: Empire for all these years. Like they come and you know,

456
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: they do their business here, and then they leave and

457
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: we try to forget about it. And she says that

458
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: she wishes she had done it differently, that she can't

459
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: forget it about it anymore, and that she wants the

460
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: people of Pheryx to not ignore their feelings about the Empire.

461
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: They need to rise up, they need to resist the Empire.

462
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: She says, I want Ferris to continue. We've been sleeping,

463
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: we've had each other, and they left us alone. We

464
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: took their money and they ignored us. And then she says,

465
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: fight the empire, and then all of a sudden, the

466
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: imperial officers they step in to try and break this up,

467
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: and Bee gets overturned and when it's people, and when

468
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: people see be overturned, they fucking lose it.

469
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that's the funniest shit. Yeah, that I

470
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: want to go down in Song's history. Marva gives this

471
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 2: speech and she's really like, she's talking about all the

472
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: funerals she's seen. This is a place that's paved with

473
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: funeral stones because so many people have died, and every

474
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: time it made her a little bit more angry at

475
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 2: the Empire. But really, now she needs people to fight.

476
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: She gives this rousing speech and people are getting jostled,

477
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: they're Joscelyn.

478
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 4: But it's not until an imperial officer kicks over Bee.

479
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: How heck dare you?

480
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: Everyone's like, what the fuck? And will I need it

481
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: to go down in history that this rebellion on Pharik

482
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: is not because somebody put hands on B two Emo and.

483
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 5: Everyone was like absolutely not, yes, absolutely not, it's how

484
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 5: fucking dare you?

485
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Brasso, he's the most pissed. He just he runs

486
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 2: straight up there. He's got marves for your north Stone

487
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: and he's beautiful. He just bricks and Imperial office right

488
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: in the head, so beautiful, and it all kicks off.

489
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: Cassian is at the hotel. He finds Bicks. She's in

490
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: a terrible fucking state. Meanwhile, out in the street, the

491
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: Imperial shock Troopers, the Riot troopers are beginning to buckle.

492
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: And it's at that moment when it seems like it's

493
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: unclear whether the Empire is going to be able to

494
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: get control this situation or where the Riot is going

495
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 1: to break through that Willman hurls whatever it was he

496
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: was he was building it and indeed is a bomb,

497
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: and it explodes. Several stormtroopers go down. Their vehicle is

498
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: also damaged and there gets overturned. Their box of grenades

499
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: cooks off, and now more explosions are rocking the street,

500
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: and the storm troopers just open fire on the crowd.

501
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: They're being just like gunning everybody down. Brasso drags woman

502
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: to safety. Zan gets shot down. Rip Zan, who just

503
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: was a good friend to Cassian, was really holding it

504
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: down and never you know, had his own things going on.

505
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, made took necessary

506
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: risks to remain on the side of justice, and he

507
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: dies here along with what we can only assume to

508
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: be probably dozens of people in the explosion of the

509
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: ensuing gunfight. It's surely dozens and dozens of Fhrexians. We're

510
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: gunned down here. Meanwhile, Cinta is running around in the

511
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: streets in isbh and who kind of like figures out

512
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: that she's up to no good, stops her. She stabs

513
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: him to death. Cassian fights his way out of the hotel.

514
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: He sees that Nurci is probably killed in one of

515
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: the explosions that happened. Yeah, it's clear.

516
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: I have that feeling the classic like he could have,

517
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: because we see the explosion happen and we see him

518
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: get knocked down and he's laying down. He looks dead.

519
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: But I'm like, maybe he's not dead. This hasn't had

520
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 2: a great record of killing people other than black characters,

521
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: so I'm hoping maybe he's gone, like learn his lesson,

522
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: and but I think there's something to be said. You know,

523
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: I was on the La Comic Con podcast and Hector

524
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: Navarro said this really like thing that I thought was

525
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: really heartbreaking, but it really got me where I was like,

526
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: even the people trying to escape, who will do anything

527
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: to escape? If you side with the Empire, You're still

528
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: gonna die. That's like the most fucked up thing. So

529
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: like he tried, he betrayed his friends, and what for

530
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: to end up maybe dead on the floor. It's like

531
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 2: lots of deaths happening rip to a lot of people.

532
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: Not to mention, I mean this is jumping ahead, but

533
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: you have to assume that once the Empire gets control

534
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: of this situation, and by control that probably means hundreds,

535
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: if not thousands, gunned down, yeah, dead, hundreds if not thousands,

536
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: put in prison and interrogated. And then, as super producer

537
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: Saul is saying in the chat, martial law and an

538
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: occupation of significant size, you then wonder, like, what is

539
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: the state of Feryx when we come back in season two?

540
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: It is probably because even if it exists, right, if

541
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: they didn't use it as a test case for the

542
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: for the Death Star, which is not operational yet, does

543
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: in what state is it? If it even exists? That

544
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure will be heartbreaking As all this riot is

545
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: popping off, Deirdre gets clabbered by a rock. It's wonderful.

546
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: She goes down.

547
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: It looks like she's about to get torn apot by

548
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: the people of fer I really thought she was coming

549
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: to an end and oust feel very good about it.

550
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: I was feeling great about it until she is rescued

551
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: by our terrible friend Cyril Karn, who historide out here.

552
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: Uh and yeah, you know, I've seen people like frame

553
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: their quote unquote relationship as like Cyril is quote in

554
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: love with Deirdre.

555
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 6: He's not.

556
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: He's a star love.

557
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a star. This is a toxic relationship. He

558
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: is in He is just enamored with anyone who is

559
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: wielding power. He wants to feel power, power, and he

560
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: wants to be close to that. It's not necessarily about

561
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: Deirdre personally, it's about what she represents and he is

562
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: not a well man.

563
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: It's very it's going to be very interesting, slash scary

564
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: to see where that goes in season two, because he

565
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: pulls her aside, he saves her, and she's like, oh,

566
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: I guess I should say thank you, and she's sort

567
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: of still scared. But they're all close, pressed up together,

568
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: and this is going to be someone that she's gonna

569
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: have to trust I mean, how are they going to

570
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: get off Pheris? Is this going to be the kind

571
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: of situation where we start the second season straight afterwards?

572
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 2: Is there going to be a time jump if we

573
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: have to see them escape? There is a potential that

574
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: she's going to have to rely on Cyril. But we

575
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: know that Cyril is a horrible person and he's a

576
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: very toxic person from a very toxic household. He does

577
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: not respect women. I imagine that whatever that relationship becomes

578
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: in the future, it's not going to end well for

579
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: Deirdre because that's a man who he wants to be

580
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: close to power because he wants it, not because he respects.

581
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: How to mention you wonder again we're jumping ahead a

582
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: little bit to the conversation, but I do wonder if

583
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: Deirdre does undergo some sort of downfall because of her

584
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: failure and this whole fair.

585
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: Expert, would Cyril sell her out?

586
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: Would Cyril once sell her out? Or do they team

587
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: up to continue the investigation either on their own, or

588
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: does she or does she go to the ISBN say Hey,

589
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: this super super toxic weirdo really really helped me out

590
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: and he's really driven and maybe give him an ISB

591
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: application and I'll vouch for him.

592
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 2: So Chris just super producer. Chris just put in the

593
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: chat that Tony Rris is going to be like a

594
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: year time jump. So I actually, of all the options

595
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: that you just laid out there, I think it's very

596
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: likely that in a year we either see them in

597
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: two places, Cyril very high up in the ISB at

598
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,959
Speaker 2: Didra's side, or post that downfall, and they're both kind

599
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: of in this folly you do insane quest to take

600
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: down the rebels in a very violent, toxic way. So

601
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 2: either way, it's going to be interesting. I was rooting

602
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 2: for Deirdre to die, but I've never heard of her

603
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: in the later you know, I'll always be very happy

604
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: where I'm like in the future. I'm like, look, I

605
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: know the canon of Star Wars and guess who I

606
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: never heard of Ddra, So that just means I can

607
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: hope she dies.

608
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: She'll be dead, and you know she was certainly we

609
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 1: don't see her, you know, running around at the side

610
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: of Horse and Crenicks exactly.

611
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 2: Like you know what I'm saying. I'm like fingers crossed.

612
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: Okay, Luthan is watching the Riots from afar while Vell

613
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: and Sinta are packing up the safe house. They're preparing

614
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: to get off the planet as quickly as they can.

615
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: Cassian spirits Bicks to a ship which is going to

616
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: carry her, Brasso Be to Emo, Willman, and some others

617
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: to safety. Cassian says his goodbyes, give some advice to

618
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: the pilot, says, listen, as soon as you get over

619
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: the sea, you don't have your tracker on, you fucking

620
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: hit the afterburners. You're out of here. B is like what, Cassian,

621
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: I didn't get to to see you. And You're like, oh,

622
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 1: this is fucking heartbreaking. And then Cassian says, I know,

623
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: but I need you to hold things down here while

624
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: I go take care of business and be like, but

625
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: you always say that, And then Cassian is like, yeah,

626
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: but you always come through for me, don't you know you,

627
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: little bee? And it's wonderful. And I hope that B

628
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: is safe forever, even though we never hear much like Deirdre,

629
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: we have never heard of him before, and I hope

630
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: that he has saved somewhere me too.

631
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: And there's a really interesting moment where Cassian's like, I

632
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 2: promise I will come and find you and it's unclear

633
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 2: whether b doesn't really believe him understandably, but it's unclear

634
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: whether Bix is Lucid or not, because she then says

635
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: Cassian will come, Cassian will find us, but she says

636
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: it to Cassian as if she doesn't recognize him. So

637
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: it's a really interesting kind of heartbreaking moment, especially because

638
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,959
Speaker 2: of what we see him doing in the final scene

639
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 2: of the show.

640
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: I gotta say, also, some real boor Gullet parallels with

641
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: what happened to Bix, And you know what Borgullet is

642
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: able to do and does in fact in Rogue One.

643
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 2: Could what the babies are, Could they potentially be related

644
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: to Borgollet, like you.

645
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: Wonder if that is the last, the last of its kind,

646
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: you know. Then we go to Coruscant where Mon and

647
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: Paren are presenting their daughter Leda to the gangster Davos Skolden,

648
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: and his son is some sort of chandrillin match. This

649
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: is some sort of.

650
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: Pressing scenes in the show. This is a finale full

651
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: of depressing, sad moments, and yet this moment.

652
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: Seems you talk about sing Mon's.

653
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: Face and it's so horrified with what she is doing.

654
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 2: It is so gross.

655
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: You want to talk about ruthless like we were talking

656
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: about Luthen as ruthless, right, He's going here to kill

657
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: someone who has been very useful and beneficial to him

658
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:53,479
Speaker 1: and his mission, and will clearly sacrifice anyone in order

659
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: to keep the rebellion going, keep it safe, keep his

660
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: network from being being revealed. Man Mon. As scared as

661
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: she is, she's also tremendously ruthless and courageous. Just I mean,

662
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: first of all, setting up her husband to take some

663
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: kind of fall grim, offering up her daughter, who is

664
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, a little missed fascist Coruscant twenty twenty two,

665
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 1: offering her up to a gangster in order to keep

666
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: the rebellion you know, in money. She is an unbelievable

667
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: hero of the rebel alliance and the things to do

668
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: aret In.

669
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 2: She's much more similar to Luthan than she would have

670
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: in her own way, in her own scary like ex

671
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: extremely ruling class way, and the way that she just

672
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: sells it is so heartbreaking to see. She just knows

673
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 2: that she's doing something terrible that she does not agree with.

674
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: I would argue too, that she's even though you see

675
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: her fear in a much more present way than you

676
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: see Luthen's I think she's she is. I mean know,

677
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: Luthen calls himself a coward at various points, but I

678
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: think that her courage is so it's it's jaw dropping

679
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: because she is just completely exposed. She is surround like

680
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: her family would turn her in if they need.

681
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, her family loves so much privilege and money and

682
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: security and status from it. They just love it.

683
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: Luthen could get in his spy shuttle with you know,

684
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: his faked transponder codes and his various counter you know,

685
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: like countermeasures against imperial encroachment, and you know, jet off

686
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: to we would assume some safe house somewhere in the

687
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,919
Speaker 1: galaxy mon if it all goes badly, if it all

688
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: went sideways, which we know it won't from because you

689
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: know we've seen again we've seen well as we've seen

690
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: Roman Lucy way. But if it went sideways, can she

691
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 1: would she be able to get off course? On It's

692
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,919
Speaker 1: really unclear, Like she is just completely exposed. So like, uh,

693
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: kudos to man Mathma, a true hero of the rebellion. Elsewhere,

694
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: Cassian has broken onto into Luthen's ship and he and

695
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: Luthen arrives and Cassian confronts him, and Cassian gets Luthen

696
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: to admit, yes, I came to Pherrix to kill you. You

697
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: made it really hard to kill you. And Cassian's like, well,

698
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: I'm going to make it easy. There's a blaster right

699
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: there on the table, right next to you. And Lutherans like,

700
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: what the what is this? What is this? And Cassian's

701
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: like essentially says, I want to fight the Empire. If

702
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: you don't think you can trust me to fight the Empire,

703
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: then kill me right here. Yeah, kill me or take

704
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: me on or else take me on and let's fight together.

705
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: And Luthen smiles and realizes, Okay, this guy, Cassian, I

706
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: can trust and let's go fight. And then we get

707
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: the Stinger scene in which we discovered that the prisoners

708
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 1: of an Arcina five were assembling not just the death Star,

709
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: but crucially the super laser for the death Star, which

710
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: is you know, Galen Erso's uh project and masterpiece and

711
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: Ultimate Revenge. Also that his life's work is that.

712
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 2: Very ironic prison is building the thing that will eventually

713
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 2: lead the rebels to be able to get freedom for

714
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: the galaxy. And also we were right, we.

715
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: Did we were right, We were right, We were a

716
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: couple of things that have been on my mind ever

717
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: since watching you know, finishing the series number one, I

718
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: thought we were going back to Canari and we're going

719
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: to find out what happened to and Or's sister. I

720
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: guess that's probably on the on the table for season two.

721
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: Did you were you expecting that?

722
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: Were you thinking, Oh, Kerry, you know, I really wanted to,

723
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: because as I've said, like we've spoken about this before,

724
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: I do think that is one of the places that

725
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: the show did not deliver the kind of nuanced, interesting

726
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: context and conversation and representation that I think it did

727
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 2: so well in things like Narcina five or even just

728
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: like as the finale went on and we got to

729
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: see this textured, working class planet of Pherics. But I

730
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 2: think this is my hope, right, My hope is that

731
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: season two will focus on and Or finding his sister,

732
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: as in that will probably happen quite early, and I

733
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: would love to see his sister challenge what Marva did

734
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: and challenge his assimilation outside of Canari and kind of

735
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 2: the way that and make him just realize that there

736
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 2: was a set there was a part of that behavior

737
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: that even if it had good intentions, was actually quite

738
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 2: dangerous and and and and had a bad effect on him.

739
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 2: I think that really interesting way to bring that real

740
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: life analogy that we spoke of of indigenous children being

741
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: kidnapped and adopted, and giving it that same context as

742
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: a show that gave us a prison industrial complex slavery storyline.

743
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: You know. So I was surprised that there wasn't even

744
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: a tease of his sister. But maybe that, I hope

745
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: is because in season two they're gonna do something that's

746
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: just as complex and thoughtful as what we've seen in

747
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: this season.

748
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was I'd be interested to know what happened there,

749
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: and certainly I feel like I know the way that

750
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: it hits me the Marvel storyline, which is that, you know,

751
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: I think Marva and Clem thought they were doing something

752
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: really good. Definitely there right, they thought they were doing

753
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 1: something really positive. But also, you know, it's that thing

754
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: we talk about with perspective, where everybody thinks they're no

755
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: matter what they're doing, thinks that they're doing the right thing,

756
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: or at least is trying to act out in a

757
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: way that comports with their ideals about you know, justice

758
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: and right and wrong. But it's also clearly they kidnapped

759
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: a kid.

760
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, like flat out like you don't.

761
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: Know where his parents are, you don't know where his

762
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: family sister is, you don't know what the bonds that

763
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: he has with those people are. We don't know anything

764
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: about the culture of those people.

765
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 2: Like part of I think part of this is like

766
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: there was a really intense and in depth, long conversation

767
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 2: in our discord about this that lots of members took

768
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: part in, and I think something that really came up.

769
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: There was also something we saw in the early episodes.

770
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: There's a reason that we don't know any of that stuff,

771
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: and that's because from when he was a child, Marva

772
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 2: says she told him not to think about Canari, not

773
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: to tell people he was from Canari, not to even

774
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: remember Canari, don't talk about your sister. That in itself

775
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 2: reflects the way that Indigenous children in the past have

776
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: been violated by being forced to pretend that they are

777
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: not Indigenous to fit better into these like you know,

778
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: inverted commons schools and orphanages and stuff. I think that

779
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 2: that is a very interesting parallel that again I would

780
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: like to see explored because it's to do with intention

781
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: and impact. I believe Martha thought she was doing the

782
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 2: right thing. Yeah, but Cassie and lost that deep connection

783
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,479
Speaker 2: and it was It feels to me that the fact

784
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: that the sister was a driving force early on in

785
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: the season, but we haven't heard about her again really

786
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: as the season went on. I don't think that's because

787
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 2: he's replacing his sister with his found family. I'm hoping

788
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 2: it's because that will be a bigger arc in season two.

789
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: I mean, there were clues, there were hints at it

790
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: over the final two episodes where I thought, oh, we're

791
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 1: going to we're going to go back there and we're

792
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: going to find something out, but that never happened. Again.

793
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: I do expect that we're going to tie up that

794
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: loop certainly in season two, if not in some other

795
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: story form. Okay, Sagerera, you hear a lot about, you know,

796
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: in Clone Wars, elsewhere about it in Rogue One, certainly

797
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: about Sagerera's extremism, how the things that he does actually

798
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: hurt the rebellion because it drives a wedge between the

799
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: various factions who get who are kind of like reaching

800
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: across these various ideological lines in order to form the

801
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: rebel Alliance. He's just so out there, and I guess

802
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: the implication is violent that that people don't there are

803
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: is a significant faction of the rebel Alliance that doesn't

804
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: want him associated with the cause. At the same time,

805
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: I'm really struggling. I wonder if we're going to find

806
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 1: out what that is in season two, because I gotta say,

807
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: I'm Saw feels very tame right now. Like I'm not

808
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 1: saying that he is not a killer, but so is Luthan,

809
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: but so is Cassian, but so is Vel, but so

810
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,479
Speaker 1: is Syntha, but so is everybody that we've seen thus far,

811
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: and Saw it does not seem meaningfully out of step

812
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: with what anybody else is doing. And the only thing

813
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: that I see right now that is different, of course,

814
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: is you know, again, there's a lot to be revealed.

815
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: We would assume the only thing that really sets part

816
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: A Saw apart right now is the fact that he

817
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: was first. He was he before anybody was trying to

818
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: organize to resist the Empire. He was doing it and

819
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: saying that we should do it.

820
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: I wonder, So there's two routs. I think they can

821
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: go one. I think in a way, it's just quite

822
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: one of those funny narrative conundrums, because Tony Gilory in

823
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: this show at multiple points is like, just hit an

824
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 2: imperial cop with a brick. Yeah, just break out of prison.

825
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 2: Like he's putting for regards on the way, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

826
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 2: He's putting forward ideas that are radical, and a lot

827
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 2: of what we've seen in Star Wars before has been

828
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 2: that kind of that exavy of versus Meo style conundrum

829
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 2: of like the rebellion of mon Mothra, the rebellion Mafra

830
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 2: mon Mothma, the rebellion I got. I'm like, I know

831
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: George loves Godzilla.

832
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 5: It's probably not a coincidence, but you know, the rebellion

833
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 5: of of of being peaceful and money and being in

834
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 5: the Senate, we now know that that's actually fake.

835
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 2: There are not two versions of the rebellion. There's the

836
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: violence of the rebellion that has to happen to allow

837
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: mon Mothma to do the things that she wants to do.

838
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: What I would be interested in seeing will saw Guerrera

839
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 2: get the blame for Al Darni, is that what makes

840
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 2: mon So so scared of him and his techniques Because

841
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 2: she's scared of Al Darni and she would love to

842
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 2: not be connected to it, even though it's what she

843
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 2: is funding. I wonder if there's something around that where

844
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 2: Sore ends up actually getting blamed for the one thing

845
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: he didn't do, because the truth is he is the

846
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: one who told Lutheran don't go and kill Yeah Kriegez

847
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 2: people actually don't allow them, I mean, don't allow them

848
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 2: to die to keep the secret that's wrong. There's thirty

849
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 2: men that he does not believe in willful debts and

850
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: murdering people. He believes in doing what has to be done.

851
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 2: And now we're seeing him that is very much in

852
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: line with what Cassian feels or the show feels. So

853
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: it will be interesting to see if they expand on

854
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 2: what Saw allegedly did or if Saw ends up getting

855
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 2: the blame for something that the rebellion don't want to take.

856
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: So also feels like, you know, he reminds me of

857
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: a of a dynamic that happens in the real world,

858
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: which is a group of people you know, you know,

859
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: from a disenfranchised community or front with you know, real

860
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: roots and a lived experience that is maybe outside of

861
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: the mainstream, will say, hey, this thing is actually this

862
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: is like violent against our community. This is this is

863
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: this is the first step in like you know, uh

864
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: we see where this is actual violence being taken against Like,

865
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: this is where this is going. And oftentimes in the

866
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: real world, when those figures will speak up, people say, oh,

867
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,919
Speaker 1: that's fringe, you're being alarmist, YadA, YadA, YadA. I see

868
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: that as kind of happening with Saw. Who is again

869
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: who is early on was like the Empire, we gotta

870
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: fight the empire. This is Look how crazy this is?

871
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: Look how look how evil they're being and people being like,

872
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: no being there being alarmist, You're being a little crazy

873
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 1: about this. And I think it's very interesting that Saw

874
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: is branded an extremist by the quote unquote mainstream of

875
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: what will be the Rebel Alliance at a certain point

876
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: when within a few months of the raid on Scariff,

877
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: that mainstream of the rebel Alliance will absolutely green light

878
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: an operation that kills like what two million people on

879
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: the Death Star. You know, Like, it's just interesting how

880
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 1: somehow Saw is an extremist but blowing up the Death Star, which,

881
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 1: let me just go on record, that was the right

882
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: thing to do, the.

883
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: Right but there is ethical but conversation.

884
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: But well, like, however many people Saw killed, can it

885
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: possibly match up to how many people died in the

886
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: in the Battle of Yavon. So it's just very interesting

887
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: that at a certain point the mainstream of the rebel

888
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: alliance has come to a place where they're doing things

889
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: that are that if they would have been told half

890
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: a year previously what would occur at the Battle of

891
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: Yavin and elsewhere, they'd be like, that's crazy. We're not

892
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: going to do that. We're not going to kill three

893
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: million people like in a strike, We're not going to

894
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: like that. They will find themselves in a place where

895
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: that will just make sense. And I and I hope

896
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: that we get to see whatever it is that Saw

897
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: does to either get that kind of like label as

898
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: an extremist, or we get to see, you know, a

899
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: moment where he gets to say, well, I was I

900
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: was right?

901
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 3: Was I not right?

902
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: I wonder if, like in the realistic political allegories that

903
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 2: this show's building in, I wonder if the label of

904
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 2: extremist is just something they say about him because they

905
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: don't want people to respect him or realize he did

906
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 2: it first, you know, they they oh, you're an extremist

907
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: was an extremist. We can't listen to him, but this

908
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 2: was the man who laid the groundwork for what you

909
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 2: were doing. You just don't want to give him credit.

910
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: I will say. You know, like like a lot of

911
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: us on this Zoom, I watched Rogue one as soon

912
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: as I was done with and Or, and I think

913
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 1: that a lot of Saw's paranoia in that movie suddenly

914
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: just make it just makes a lot more sense. The

915
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: fact that you know the Kreeger reveal Luthen's Kreeger revealed

916
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: to him, and how his shock at realizing how willing

917
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: Luthen would be to like burn an entired network to

918
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: keep everything safe. It's easy to see how that experience,

919
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: not to mention whatever physical trauma he had undergone in

920
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: the intervening years, would result in the paranoia that we

921
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 1: see on Jetto where he's like, this is a setup,

922
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: isn't it the pilot You're trying to bait me into

923
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: going somewhere, and it's you can almost watching it. I

924
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: can almost see the wheels turning like this is like

925
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: Anton Kreeger. They're trying to set me up like Kreeger.

926
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: It suddenly all of a sudden really made sense.

927
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 2: That I will say I think is one of the

928
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:42,479
Speaker 2: absolute master strokes Tony Gilroy did with this show. He went,

929
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: he made Raguan and then he basically retroactively created a

930
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 2: prequel with and Or. Look, this sounds like what everyone

931
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 2: should do with the prequel, but it's not. It is

932
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: like a puzzle box where he takes tiny moments that

933
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 2: almost seem row away from and Or and expands on

934
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 2: them in a huge, huge sense. I mean having you know,

935
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: the droids that arrest and Or on the space Miami,

936
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,959
Speaker 2: little things like that. You know Adam will talk about

937
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 2: it later, but like he has a prison inside him

938
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 2: and he carries it with him everywhere he goes. We

939
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 2: now know what that means for Cassian saw Why would

940
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: he think it was a setup that's so specific, because

941
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 2: that is what Lutheran did with Krieger. Like, it's so

942
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 2: satisfying to feel the pieces click together. And if you

943
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 2: haven't gone back and watched Rogan after finishing and Or,

944
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: do it, because I guarantee you are going to feel

945
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 2: incredibly satisfied and very smartly. There is still a lot

946
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 2: of space left for Cassian to move in season two

947
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 2: to get to the person he is in Rogue one.

948
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 2: He is not that person now because of what happened

949
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 2: in season one, But we understand the person he is

950
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 2: in Rogue one a little bit better because of this season.

951
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely one last Saw thing, which is, you know, clearly,

952
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: when we see Saw in rogue one, he is he's

953
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: sucking on some sort of like oxygen tank that he

954
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,240
Speaker 1: needs because his lungs have been damaged. He's missing limbs.

955
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 1: He also doesn't seem to recognize Cassian, where certainly now

956
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: it could be in his state, his absolutely paranoid state

957
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: that he just doesn't remember that he knows this guy

958
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: or had met this guy, or been in the same

959
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: room as this guy. You know Luthan. I remember Luthen

960
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: saying that thing about Kreeger. He doesn't know me. Yes,

961
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: we've been in the same room, but he didn't know

962
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: who I was. It could have been a situation like

963
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 1: that yere where Saw has been around Cassian but didn't

964
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: know who, didn't recall exactly who he was. But I

965
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 1: wonder how they're going to play that in season two. One,

966
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: I would expect we're going to get more And two,

967
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 1: why is it that obviously Saw as a famous figure

968
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: and certainly in rebellion circles. But why is it that

969
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: Saw didn't seem to know who Cassian was?

970
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so I think this could tie into the journey

971
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 2: of Cassian over the next season. I wonder it's very sad,

972
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 2: it's very bleak, but I think it's probably quite likely.

973
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 2: I wonder if the way that Luthan sees Cassian as

974
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 2: being useful after that interaction. I wonder if Luthan is

975
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,760
Speaker 2: the one who trains Cassian to become that cold blooded

976
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 2: killer oh takes. And I wonder if the reason that

977
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 2: Soar and Cassian don't necessarily cross paths in any kind

978
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 2: of definitive way is because Cassian's life is as a killer,

979
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 2: as an assassin, as the person who will take out

980
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 2: those who needs to be taken out, which means that

981
00:56:54,960 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 2: he is essentially a specter. You know, he's not really

982
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 2: a presence in the rebellion because his role is to

983
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 2: take out the people who and I would assume that

984
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 2: would be very easy to get Cassian to do. If

985
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 2: you say, well, here are the people who destroyed Canari,

986
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 2: here are the people who did this thing that personally

987
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 2: hurt you. Here's an empire person who did something terrible.

988
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 2: Here's something and then then that's how you get to

989
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: the person in that first scene of roguean who can

990
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 2: just shoot the informer.

991
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: I let's talk about Luthen for a second, because he

992
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 1: gives that little smile when when you know, when Cassian

993
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: gives him the choice either shoot me down or take

994
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: me on. And but I I, you know, other pods

995
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: that I listened to have kind of you know, maybe

996
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: have have kind of placed Luthen in that same kind

997
00:57:55,560 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: of you know, framework of somebody who comes to the

998
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: light of like, oh, I've seen the error of my ways.

999
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have tried to kill Cassian. Maybe I'll do

1000
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: the rebellion differently. I didn't get that sension at all,

1001
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: the sense, especially considering what you mentioned that at the

1002
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: beginning of Roguan, Cassian is every bit what Luthen is

1003
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: now and will without any unction.

1004
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 2: He'll do it to the people to do it for him.

1005
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: He will, He has no compunction to just like cutting off,

1006
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, the head of you know, a loose thread,

1007
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: if that protects the network. I think I don't sense

1008
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: any kind of hesitation or or sorrow in Luthen. In fact,

1009
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: I think at the end of this Luthan is going

1010
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 1: to continue to be as ruthless as he has been.

1011
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: Like that is my sense from from this. Did you

1012
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: feel anything going to change his ways?

1013
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 2: I totally agree. I think you're on exactly the right part.

1014
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 2: I didn't see it that way at all. I saw

1015
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 2: his smile as he is incredibly satisfied because here is

1016
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 2: a person, this guy just like him, Yeah, will die.

1017
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 2: He's going to die or he's going to be in

1018
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 2: the rebellion. And actually what that really means is he's

1019
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 2: going to die being in the rebellion like Luthan. And

1020
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 2: obviously we see that Luthan's speech that becomes true for

1021
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 2: Cassian dying for the sunset you'll never get to see

1022
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 2: or the sunrise you'll never get to see. That is

1023
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 2: foreshadowing of Cassian and Jin dying on Scariff. And I

1024
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 2: think that what he's smiling about is to Luthan because

1025
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 2: of how ruthless he's become. All of this whole season

1026
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 2: was almost like a test. He didn't know he was

1027
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 2: testing Cassian, he was going to kill him. But then

1028
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 2: he comes is, Oh, here's somebody who will who is

1029
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 2: so desperate to be a part of this who so

1030
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 2: believes this is the right thing to do that he

1031
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,479
Speaker 2: will give me a blaster and tell me to kill

1032
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: him or make him a part of it. I think

1033
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,479
Speaker 2: Lutheran is just very happy to have someone else who's

1034
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 2: kind of as unhinged and committed to this as he is.

1035
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 2: And I think that Lutheran is a user as much

1036
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 2: as he's doing things for a greater good. And I

1037
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 2: think we will see that ruthlessness and exploitation translated to Cassian.

1038
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 2: I do believe my gut says Luthen probably will like

1039
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 2: in season two. This is not too Galaxy brain, but

1040
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 2: a little bit further along kind of theory. I think

1041
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 2: he will probably die saving Cassian. I think that will

1042
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 2: be his one moment of redemption. He sees that Cassian

1043
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 2: can continue this on and he sort of does something

1044
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: to stop Cassian dying. I think that is the only

1045
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 2: redemptive moment he may have. But I think that it

1046
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 2: is no coincidence that Cassian's ruthlessness at the beginning of

1047
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 2: Roguan is a direct reflection of Luthen's and I think

1048
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 2: that relationship over the next season is only going to

1049
01:00:58,040 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: get more terrible.

1050
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: I have a galaxy brain, I have a galaxy. I

1051
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: think Luthen saves Cassian somehow at that and to your point,

1052
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: that is the kind of Luthen redemption moment. But Cassian

1053
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,919
Speaker 1: is forced to kill Luthan, either to let him walk

1054
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 1: into an imperial trap, let him go down, or.

1055
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 2: I think that sounds very realistic, has.

1056
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: To kill him in order to keep him from falling

1057
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: into the Empire's hands. And I think it's gonna be

1058
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: a very tough decision, but I think that is how

1059
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: we get to the Cassian end. Or we see in

1060
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 1: rope who I think a guy in the he'll shoot

1061
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: a guy in the back, He'll kill Galen or So,

1062
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: even though the orders are we snatch Galen or So

1063
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: when somebody put you know it, takes him aside and goes, hey, listen,

1064
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: we're not actually going to rescue Galen or So. You

1065
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: fucking kill that guy this second you lay eyes on him.

1066
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: Who will happily kill Galen or So in the presence

1067
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: of his daughter, even though he's.

1068
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 2: Not connected with his human level, as.

1069
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: Long as that allows the rebellion to survive. I think

1070
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: that's my galaxy green tea.

1071
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: I think that's a really great call. I think Saul

1072
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 2: pointed this out. I totally agree. Lutheran would want it

1073
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 2: that way. He'd want it.

1074
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 1: That way, he would he would agree with it.

1075
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he would want it. He's probably given him the

1076
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 2: old kill me wink, you know, yeah, old like you

1077
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 2: can do it. But also, okay, so this is let's

1078
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 2: galaxy bring it up a little bit further. I wonder

1079
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 2: if there's some kind I wonder if the Sister arc

1080
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 2: and the Lutheran arc crossover in the way that the

1081
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 2: Empire or somebody gets hands on Cassian's sister and he

1082
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 2: has to betray and inverted Commas Luthan, but there's some

1083
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,439
Speaker 2: kind of agreement that's made. I wonder if those two

1084
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 2: sides of his life will be pitted against each other.

1085
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 2: I really hope the Sister arc does come into it

1086
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 2: next season and we're not just like she's just fridged,

1087
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 2: like oh sorry, she's there, like sorry to you. There's

1088
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 2: been too.

1089
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: Many there's been too many mentions of her for that

1090
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: to happen. Vell and sinto what do you think we

1091
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: see from the Aldanni crew going forward? And are they

1092
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: going to be active participants in this nascent version of

1093
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 1: the Rebel alliance.

1094
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 2: Sinta, Yes, I think she's going to become a big character.

1095
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 2: I have a big feeling that she's gonna be on

1096
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 2: alongside Cassian on that journey, maybe someone who he sees

1097
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 2: doing the things that he believes he has to do.

1098
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 2: I think Vell could be a very interesting character. To

1099
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 2: see mom oh my God through through Vell's eyes, and

1100
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 2: to see that the two sides of the rebellion, Lutheran's

1101
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 2: rebellion and mom Mofma's rebellion. I think Sinta and Vell

1102
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 2: could become kind of reflections of those two versions, because

1103
01:03:55,800 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 2: Vell's definitely getting tired of the brutal real of the rebellion.

1104
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 2: So I hope that we see both of them going

1105
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 2: forwards in season two.

1106
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: An amazing show, an incredible achievement. I understand why they're

1107
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: only doing one more season. Certainly when we talked to

1108
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: talk to Tony and he was like, well, a certain point,

1109
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: I was just like, what the fuck am I doing?

1110
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 2: This is why I do this, disting my life.

1111
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: So I'm very you know, like, I'm very grateful that

1112
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: he decided to do that again, to go through that

1113
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 1: process again. And I can't wait to see man. I

1114
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 1: can't wait to see how this leads us into Rogue one,

1115
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: the Battle of Yavin, and and on and on. Where

1116
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 1: do you put and or in your Star Wars pantheon?

1117
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: Who I am? I mean surprising no one. My favorite

1118
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 2: Star Wars is my favorite main canon Star Wars is

1119
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 2: returning the Jedi, because really, my favorite Star Wars is

1120
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,959
Speaker 2: like Batfandle like he Walks. I love those e Woks movies,

1121
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 2: and I love I love that stuff. That's my closest

1122
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 2: to my heart. So I'm a Jedi first person. It's

1123
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 2: really hard because it's the comparison of subjective nostalgia and

1124
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 2: love for these things and objective goodness. I would say,

1125
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 2: in objective goodness, this is as good as the best

1126
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 2: Star Wars, so it would be after that, I would say,

1127
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 2: in mind, it's probably around currently it would be like

1128
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 2: Jedi Rebels, Clone Wars and or.

1129
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: New Hope.

1130
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 2: But then again, you know, I love the Last Jedi,

1131
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 2: so sometimes that's my number one. So it's hard for me,

1132
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 2: but it's up there. I'll say it's up there. I

1133
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 2: can't say definitively a number based because there's too many

1134
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 2: Star Wars movies. I'll never forget seeing the Force awakens

1135
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 2: in a cinema at midnight with like a bunch of

1136
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 2: other people. That was like one of the best cinematic

1137
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 2: experiences of my life. I think The Last Jedi is

1138
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 2: a masterpiece, but this is up there. I think this

1139
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 2: is a subjectively include some of the best Star Wars

1140
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 2: storytelling of all time. The Knocking of Five stuff for

1141
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 2: me is that's some of my best form or storytelling. Ever.

1142
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: One thing I forgot to talk about, and we talk

1143
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 1: about a little bit with Adam, is there are other prisons,

1144
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: like for other other alien races. Right, Like they kept

1145
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 1: all the they were like, what's your homeworld? They kept

1146
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: all the humans with the humans. I would assume if

1147
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 1: they have wookies, they keep all the wookies with the

1148
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 1: wookies like we would. We should assume that, right that

1149
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 1: they're different the Empire across.

1150
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 2: Alien and humans. They know that's very dangerous. So I

1151
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 2: think as well season two prediction something that we I

1152
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 2: know we both want to see in season two more

1153
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 2: alien representation, different kinds of aliens, understanding why human supremacy

1154
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 2: is such a big part of the Empire, but also understanding,

1155
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 2: as we kind of talk about with Adam, that that

1156
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 2: is also probably a budget can strain, and we are

1157
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 2: very happy with what came out of that budget constraint

1158
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 2: because this show looks amazing and they committed to telling

1159
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 2: like a really incredible story.

1160
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: Okay, I have and Or. I think it would be

1161
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: tied for two. I have Rogue one and and Or

1162
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: to me, like, yes, you need both, right, So it's

1163
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: either so I have again sometimes, as I've said here,

1164
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: yeah is favorite, sometimes my favorite. But I'm gonna put

1165
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 1: Empire first. Okay, so Empire, Rogue one, Slash and or

1166
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: one A one B Rebels, a New Hope, and then

1167
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 1: probably Jedi.

1168
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1169
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: I love Return of the Jedi.

1170
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 4: I love It's hard because, like now there's so much

1171
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 4: Star Wars that it stops being an easy question because,

1172
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 4: like I would also say that the Last Jedi, even

1173
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 4: though it has like some really big flaws, I love

1174
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 4: a lot of the stuff that they did there.

1175
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 2: Like I wish that Finn had been more obviously a Jedi.

1176
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 2: I always believed him and Poe were both for sensitive,

1177
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 2: and we kind of get that in the third movie

1178
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 2: little bit. But I love this stuff with him and Rose.

1179
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: I think that that throne room fight is one of

1180
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 2: the coolest things that's ever been put to screen.

1181
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 1: It's the best lightsaber fight ever period.

1182
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 2: The idea of the democracy of the force and everybody

1183
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: can use it and it's not just some weird bloodline elitism.

1184
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 2: So that one for a long time after seeing it,

1185
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 2: that was my favorite. But there's so much that it's

1186
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 2: just hard. But this is up there definitely, and I

1187
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 2: think I feel very lucky to live in a time

1188
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,679
Speaker 2: where you can be like, oh, there's great Star Wars

1189
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 2: TV shows, and they're not just great for a Star

1190
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 2: Wars TV show, like Rebels and and or those are

1191
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 2: just great TV shows. Whether or not, I would say

1192
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 2: anyone who doesn't think they're into Star Wars should watch

1193
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 2: this show. I think it could just find such a

1194
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 2: huge audience, and I hope that people give it a try,

1195
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 2: even though I'm sure everyone who listens his podcasts probably

1196
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 2: loves Star Wars.

1197
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 1: Well. We've got more and or up next. In our

1198
01:08:54,320 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: conversation with Atlantic writer Adam Serwer, Crooked and do a

1199
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Speaker 1: which you should do. I'm going to stop here. I'm

1280
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,600
Speaker 1: going to kind of veer off of the script. You

1281
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 1: should do that, and I hope that it's affordable for

1282
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 1: you to do that, and I hope you have access

1283
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:48,439
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1284
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,880
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1285
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:55,000
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1286
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,280
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1287
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:01,760
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1288
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 1: this dumb banter from your dentist, and they're grinding on

1289
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 1: your teeth with the drill, and they got that little

1290
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 1: hook out and they're digging in your gums, and it's uncomfortable,

1291
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:14,880
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1292
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:16,680
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1293
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Speaker 1: and the whole thing, it's a whole rigamarole. Fortunately, now

1294
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1297
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1300
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1303
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 1: But what about the crannies, you say, also the crannies

1304
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,200
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1305
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1306
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1309
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1310
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1311
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1313
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1314
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1315
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Speaker 1: That's smile actives dot com slash x ray. Welcome to

1320
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: the High Mind, where we explore a topic in more

1321
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 1: detail with the help of expert guests, and this week

1322
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 1: we are thrilled to have Atlantic staff writer Adam Surwar

1323
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 1: join us to go even deeper into the politics of

1324
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 1: and Or and talk about his Star Wars origin story

1325
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 1: and more. Adam Serwer is a staff writer at The Atlantic,

1326
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 1: and he recently wrote a piece titled Star Wars Gets

1327
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: Political but not in the way you think. Adam covers

1328
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 1: a variety of topics, mostly on the political scene, justice, society, race, etc.

1329
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: And we're delighted to have him here on x ray

1330
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 1: Vision to talk about and Or. Adam, Thank you for

1331
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: joining us.

1332
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me.

1333
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 1: So I think we're both really interested to get your take,

1334
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: and also you know, we're fascinated by your piece as

1335
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 1: someone who is not really like into the granular conversations

1336
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 1: around Star Wars on a kind of a week to

1337
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 1: week project project level, to see like your what your

1338
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:00,639
Speaker 1: reaction to and or was you know, just.

1339
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 6: Okay, So how do you feel I need to clarify this?

1340
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:08,920
Speaker 6: So I'm not involved in those conversations, but I am

1341
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:13,599
Speaker 6: involved in the sense that I'm a hopeless Star Wars

1342
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 6: that I love.

1343
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:14,800
Speaker 1: To hear it.

1344
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 6: I think there was like a couple of years after

1345
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 6: the prequels where I kind of detached and just like

1346
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 6: wasn't interested, and then the Clone Wars cartoon brought me

1347
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 6: back in nice and you know, even even Rise of Skywalker,

1348
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 6: which is the worst thing that has ever happened to

1349
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 6: the franchise. It's worse than Find in Menace. It's worse,

1350
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 6: and I mean it is just the complete silence of

1351
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 6: anything to deal with that era of Star Wars. This

1352
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 6: sort of speaks for yourself. Even that did not stop

1353
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 6: me this time, because there's there's so much other stuff

1354
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:51,680
Speaker 6: that's good that they're doing and I think, you know,

1355
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 6: so I'm not. I don't write about it very much.

1356
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 6: I don't, you know, I'm not, you know, I don't.

1357
01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 6: I don't get like super involved in like the production

1358
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 6: details and stuff like. It's not it's not professionally it's

1359
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:05,160
Speaker 6: so except for every once in a while, It's not

1360
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 6: that I'm professionally absorbed them, but I do love this stuff.

1361
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 6: I will watch this about any Star Wars content you

1362
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 6: give me. I don't know why, I just I just

1363
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 6: really enjoyed. I think part of it is just that

1364
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 6: it is just it's flexibility, I mean, and I think

1365
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 6: that's one of the things about and Or is that

1366
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 6: the universe can contain so many different interpretations, you know.

1367
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 6: I think one of the things that people liked about

1368
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:36,680
Speaker 6: an earlier stage of the MCU, which is that it

1369
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 6: was very clear that in the Marvel Universe, you could

1370
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:41,759
Speaker 6: do something that was a completely different genre from something

1371
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 6: else and it would still like fit. And I think

1372
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 6: Star Wars is really like that, right, I mean, like,

1373
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 6: even if you look at Solo, which is one of

1374
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 6: the less celebrated installments, it's a heist movie, yeah, and

1375
01:18:51,200 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 6: it feels like a heist movie. And and that kind

1376
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 6: of genre flexibility, I think is you know, a meanable

1377
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:05,360
Speaker 6: to many different kinds of artists interpretations of which and

1378
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 6: Or is probably the best example of something. So we've

1379
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:12,240
Speaker 6: seen a Star Wars creaer do something completely different from

1380
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 6: everything that's come before while still feeling, at least to me,

1381
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:16,280
Speaker 6: very much like Star Wars.

1382
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so before we begin to andle then, as

1383
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,120
Speaker 2: a fan, I'd love to know, like, what's your origin

1384
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 2: with Star Wars? Where was the place that you first

1385
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 2: fell in love with it? And what's kind of kept

1386
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:27,839
Speaker 2: you hooked throughout?

1387
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,479
Speaker 6: I mean I was just I was just a little

1388
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 6: kid who you know, saw the movie when I was

1389
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 6: like five years old or something like that, and like,

1390
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:39,960
Speaker 6: you know, I love the whole series. And then you know,

1391
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 6: at some point you're like eight or something like that,

1392
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 6: and somebody's dad who has like you know, who's like

1393
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 6: a cool dad or something and likes to talk to

1394
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 6: about you know, X wing fighters and stuff with his kids,

1395
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 6: his kid's friends, he says something like, oh, did you

1396
01:19:55,439 --> 01:20:00,120
Speaker 6: ever notice that Star Wars one is episode four? And

1397
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 6: this observation just blows your mind and you're just like, wait, wait,

1398
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 6: a whole other story that we don't even know about,

1399
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 6: and and and and and nobody's seen it yet and

1400
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 6: what happened and like you know, and and and this

1401
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:16,200
Speaker 6: just sort of this is the moment where you're like, oh,

1402
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:20,559
Speaker 6: this universe is so huge that your imagination just runs

1403
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:22,759
Speaker 6: away with it, right, And like maybe you start reading

1404
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 6: novels or comic books or something like that, and it's

1405
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 6: just it's just, you know, I think that was definitely

1406
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 6: the moment for me where I where I sort of

1407
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:33,400
Speaker 6: you know, didn't just like it, but sort of fell

1408
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:33,960
Speaker 6: into the pit.

1409
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: So what do you think it is about?

1410
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 2: And or?

1411
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 5: And or?

1412
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 1: I think, as you noted in your piece and as

1413
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 1: many people are talking about, is really kind of the

1414
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: first project along with Rogan, to put some real meat

1415
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 1: on the kind of skeleton skeletal idea of rebellion that's

1416
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:57,559
Speaker 1: kind of alluded to and talked about but not really

1417
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,679
Speaker 1: uh explored in any kind of like de tailed way.

1418
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 1: What is it that uh makes this story feel like

1419
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:11,080
Speaker 1: Star Wars while also being seemingly like the most radical

1420
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:14,160
Speaker 1: take on what a rebellion in this world would mean.

1421
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 6: So I think, you know, obviously Star Wars no stranger

1422
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:22,679
Speaker 6: to political allegory, and when I wrote that piece, uh,

1423
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:25,000
Speaker 6: you know, my intention is not to say that this

1424
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 6: is the first time Star Wars has engaged in political allegory,

1425
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,599
Speaker 6: because that's obviously not Tree Lucas is you know, sort

1426
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:34,320
Speaker 6: of famously. But you know, I did this story where

1427
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,200
Speaker 6: you can the rebels are both America and the vietcom

1428
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 6: and the Empire is both America and the Soviet Union,

1429
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. And the Nazi like, the

1430
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 6: rebellion is every uh, you know, righteous insurgency that has

1431
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 6: ever existed, and the Empire is every evil regime that

1432
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:53,800
Speaker 6: has ever existed. And that that that's sort of you know,

1433
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:56,640
Speaker 6: that's always been there. But what's interesting about and Or

1434
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 6: and also about Rogue one, although I think it a

1435
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 6: very different way, is that they have an internal politics

1436
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:05,599
Speaker 6: that makes sense. I mean, I think this is something

1437
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 6: that you know, the difference between Rogue one and and Or, Uh,

1438
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,880
Speaker 6: to me is that Rogue one, the rebellion is very

1439
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 6: much religious. And and when you look at you know,

1440
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:19,360
Speaker 6: they talk a lot about the force. You know, obviously

1441
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 6: you have cheer praying. You know, the the rebels on

1442
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 6: the beach are saying for Jetta, uh. You know, when

1443
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 6: when they're attacking Scaiff, there's this talk about I mean,

1444
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 6: the huge backlash is that they destroyed a holy city

1445
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 6: and the empire is still violently secular in and Or,

1446
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 6: but the rebellion is not yet at least from what

1447
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 6: we see, is not like a religious institution. But that

1448
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 6: said there's something similar there, and that we have a

1449
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:54,439
Speaker 6: sense that there are ideological divisions in Rogue One. It's simple.

1450
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:58,880
Speaker 6: You know, they say Saw as an extremists, but but

1451
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 6: and Or really gives us. You know, you have Mom Mathma,

1452
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 6: who's sort of more establishment figure who's secretly, you know,

1453
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 6: funding an insurgency, but it's also sort of horrified by

1454
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:14,519
Speaker 6: the the actual violence that an insurgency requires. You have Saw,

1455
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:16,439
Speaker 6: who you know, gives us the sort of layer of

1456
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:17,800
Speaker 6: the land as far as like I'm not going to

1457
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,559
Speaker 6: work with somebody who tried to overthrow the Republic with

1458
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 6: the droid army, Like I'm just not going to do that.

1459
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 6: And you know, you have Luthan, who I think whose

1460
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:29,840
Speaker 6: ideological origins have been painted at in a way that

1461
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 6: I think the show very clearly wants you to think

1462
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 6: one thing, although he may not end up being that thing.

1463
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 6: I mean, I think the show is very clear that

1464
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 6: it wants you to think that Luthen is some kind

1465
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 6: of fallen Jedi. I mean, he shows up. I mean

1466
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 6: hopefully you know this is not spoilers, fear listeners, but yeah,

1467
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 6: he shows up like Sis brothers. He's like he's he's

1468
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 6: dressed like, you know, he's dressed like the fake me out,

1469
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,960
Speaker 6: sit outfit Skywalker is wearing in Return of the Jedi.

1470
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 6: So he's like, he's he's you know, the show wants

1471
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 6: us to think this. He has that sort of Chekhov's

1472
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,680
Speaker 6: walking stick that looks like alf you know what I mean.

1473
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:10,760
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean, the show wants us to think

1474
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:12,120
Speaker 6: that he's a jet I don't know that he is.

1475
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:13,920
Speaker 6: I don't know if that'll turn out to be the thing.

1476
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:17,960
Speaker 6: I don't know what his particular ideological origin is. But

1477
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:22,080
Speaker 6: the important thing is that there is there are ideological divisions.

1478
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:25,679
Speaker 6: There's this, you know, manifesto that one of the characters

1479
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 6: rights and or that and Or himself is uninterested in

1480
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 6: because he's uninterested in politics in the same way that

1481
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:33,680
Speaker 6: in Rogue one, she's like, you know, I don't have

1482
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 6: the luxury of political opinions, and she's kind of lying,

1483
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. She she she based on

1484
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:41,240
Speaker 6: her origin, she does have political opinions, but she has

1485
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 6: decided to reject them in favor of, you know, just

1486
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:46,800
Speaker 6: scraping out of a day to day existence, which is

1487
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:49,679
Speaker 6: what a lot of the people in and Or are doing.

1488
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,600
Speaker 6: And we don't see. And a big part of what

1489
01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:54,479
Speaker 6: people like about the show and what people like about

1490
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:56,400
Speaker 6: this portrayal of the universes that we see those people,

1491
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 6: these people who are aching out in an existence under

1492
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 6: an oppressive regime, not just the people who are sort

1493
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 6: of the heroes who are going to say to the galaxy.

1494
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, something from your piece that really spoke to me.

1495
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:11,439
Speaker 2: As where you say the series attempts to imagine and

1496
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:14,800
Speaker 2: internal politics of class, culture and ideology that motivates its

1497
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 2: principal characters and fictional institutions. I would say that it's

1498
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 2: quite easy to say that and Or is probably the

1499
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 2: first Star Wars that has really even delved into the

1500
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:28,920
Speaker 2: ideas of class. You know, The Last Jedi definitely wanted

1501
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 2: to touch on this idea of a democracy of the

1502
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:35,759
Speaker 2: force and how all different people from all different spaces.

1503
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 2: But and Or, like you said, it really delves into

1504
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:41,480
Speaker 2: kind of the politics of class and how it impacts

1505
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 2: the galaxy. Could you speak a little to that and

1506
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:46,639
Speaker 2: how effective you think it is in this series.

1507
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:50,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, you know Pheris, you know,

1508
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 6: Perix's working class planet. The people there are doing salvage

1509
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:57,720
Speaker 6: and so they're working with their hands. You know, the

1510
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:02,120
Speaker 6: empire is you know, you get a sense that the

1511
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 6: heights in the film, in the show provides the pretext

1512
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:09,320
Speaker 6: for the empire to engage in uh, you know, essentially

1513
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 6: prison slave labor to spee up. You know that that's

1514
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 6: not necessarily a question of uh, the utility of the repression,

1515
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 6: but the need to uh recruit a labor force, you know,

1516
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 6: the the you have you know things like you know,

1517
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:30,840
Speaker 6: Carn is not simply an ideologue. He is sort of

1518
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:34,120
Speaker 6: from a lower middle class family on Corroussant, like we

1519
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 6: never we can't see the sky from where Karn's apartment,

1520
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 6: mother's apartment is, right. It's a small apartment. It's a

1521
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:43,200
Speaker 6: kitchen at the dining room. You can see the stove

1522
01:26:43,240 --> 01:26:44,840
Speaker 6: from the dining room. You know what I mean. It's

1523
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 6: it's a small apartment. The neighbors are observing, you know,

1524
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:51,760
Speaker 6: they can hear uh. You know it's it's uh, you know,

1525
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 6: lower east side, New York City or something like that,

1526
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 6: you know, uh, eighty years ago. And and that that

1527
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 6: that kind of detail. And I think this is again

1528
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:02,599
Speaker 6: this on that the and Or does really well, is

1529
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 6: that it they've done their research about historical periods and

1530
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:12,400
Speaker 6: events in a way that allows them to remix them

1531
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:15,519
Speaker 6: in a way that they're recognizable, but also like they're

1532
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 6: not tracing them, you know what I mean, Like it's

1533
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 6: it still feels like Star Wars. It doesn't feel like

1534
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 6: you know, it doesn't really feel like New York City. Yeah,

1535
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 6: you know, the the the prison break, which you know,

1536
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:36,680
Speaker 6: like the events of the prison break really sound a

1537
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:40,240
Speaker 6: lot like the concentration camp uprising at Sobeople were in

1538
01:27:40,280 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 6: World War Two. But it but at the same time,

1539
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 6: it's not so close to it that you're like, oh,

1540
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 6: they just copied this.

1541
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they translate it into the world

1542
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:51,320
Speaker 2: of Star Wars in a way that feels organic.

1543
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 6: Right exactly. And you know, things like you know, Masma's daughter,

1544
01:27:57,320 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 6: you know, embracing you know, her plans religious traditions in

1545
01:28:03,160 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 6: a way that feels like an act of defiance, you know,

1546
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 6: not just towards her parents, but towards the empire, you know,

1547
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 6: which is again it is it is similarly violently secular

1548
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 6: right they do not have. They tolerate religion, but they

1549
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 6: see it as a privilege that they can take away,

1550
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 6: not as a right of the people under their control.

1551
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:25,680
Speaker 6: And so I think, you know, these are all things

1552
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 6: that are drawn from the I mean, and even when

1553
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:29,280
Speaker 6: you look at Rogue One, it's sort of a similar

1554
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:34,120
Speaker 6: like that film is a creature of this period, but

1555
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:36,920
Speaker 6: I think it is a not It is a very

1556
01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 6: clear sort of analogy to the War in Afghanistan in

1557
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 6: terms of this portrayal. It's like a space Afghanistan, but

1558
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 6: or the Western perception of the War in Afghanistan rather.

1559
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:51,520
Speaker 6: But the point is that it's taking these real world

1560
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:54,240
Speaker 6: events and remixing them in a way that makes sense

1561
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:56,800
Speaker 6: within the universe, and that gives the universe a sort

1562
01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 6: of realistic feel that you know, Star Wars is typically

1563
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:04,840
Speaker 6: not known Star Wars is a space offera, but it's

1564
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:07,599
Speaker 6: really a fantasy, right. It's almost like it's more it's

1565
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:10,720
Speaker 6: closer to Lord of the Rings than Star Trek in

1566
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:14,840
Speaker 6: some ways. And so I think, you know, the sci

1567
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:19,679
Speaker 6: fi aspects of and Or are there, like they're obviously present,

1568
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 6: you know, you but they are not the wheels around

1569
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 6: which the plot itself turns.

1570
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:30,040
Speaker 1: Necessarily because the show is so interested in like what

1571
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:35,240
Speaker 1: motivates people to rebel, what motivates a political movement. I

1572
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 1: wonder if you could if you have any thoughts about

1573
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:42,599
Speaker 1: how we interact, you know, as human beings with our

1574
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 1: political ideals. Is that a scaffolding that we then build

1575
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 1: our outlook on, or do people decide as I think,

1576
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, scheme the kind of Rapscallion a Donnie gang

1577
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:01,240
Speaker 1: member who then tries to get Cassie and to like

1578
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:04,160
Speaker 1: turn on the on the group and steal the money

1579
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:05,800
Speaker 1: he had. He had kind of won him to a

1580
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:08,240
Speaker 1: side by saying, oh, you know, they killed my brother

1581
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:10,760
Speaker 1: and here's why I turned against the empire, you know,

1582
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:15,320
Speaker 1: as is kind of alluded to by his character. People

1583
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:17,720
Speaker 1: make a decision that they're going to do something and

1584
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 1: then backfill this entire political ideology to fit that, like

1585
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 1: which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Do you

1586
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:27,919
Speaker 1: think in the way we interact with our political ideals?

1587
01:30:28,439 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 6: Well, I think one thing one of the things that

1588
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 6: I like about the show is that it is not

1589
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:36,240
Speaker 6: the characters make choices. Yeah, you know, Mam Mathma is

1590
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 6: from a particular social class and she makes the choice

1591
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 6: to rebell. Not everybody in her social circle is making

1592
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 6: that choice. In fact, most people are not making that choice.

1593
01:30:44,640 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 6: She she she views the rebellion through her own ideological lens.

1594
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:51,479
Speaker 6: You know, she's horrified by al Donnie, even though like

1595
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,439
Speaker 6: al Donnie is what she is. Funded. Yeah, you know,

1596
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 6: so her her class background, her privilege, she interprets the

1597
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:01,800
Speaker 6: rebellion through that, and obviously you know, we know what

1598
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:04,640
Speaker 6: happens with my mathma later if you're if you're a

1599
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 6: Star Wars fan, but you know the same thing, you

1600
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 6: know they're you know, Skiing is an example of someone

1601
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:14,640
Speaker 6: who is he believes because he and and Or are

1602
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 6: sort of from the same galactic underclass, that they're going

1603
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 6: to make the same decisions and that moment narratively, you know,

1604
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 6: and Or is not necessarily committing to the rebellion at

1605
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:29,240
Speaker 6: that moment. In fact, he's not. His plan is to

1606
01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:32,800
Speaker 6: take that loot and go to Space Miami and he

1607
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:36,640
Speaker 6: doesn't get a get a girl, and like you know,

1608
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:40,599
Speaker 6: enjoy the rest of his life. But he's not. He's

1609
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 6: also not going to betray the rebellion, of course, and

1610
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:47,559
Speaker 6: so you see, and similarly on pharyx Uh. You know,

1611
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:49,960
Speaker 6: there are people who make the choice to rebel, and

1612
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:52,320
Speaker 6: there are people who make the choices side with the empire,

1613
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 6: and you know, I think that's you know, the point

1614
01:31:57,160 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 6: of the show is that they're and I think something

1615
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:01,639
Speaker 6: to show as well is that you know, these these

1616
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:05,480
Speaker 6: class backgrounds, these cultural backgrounds, they matter. They shape our politics,

1617
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:09,920
Speaker 6: but we do make decisions for ourselves about how we

1618
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 6: interpret those experiences and how we choose to, you know,

1619
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:19,040
Speaker 6: how we choose to try and shape the world as

1620
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:21,120
Speaker 6: a result of them. And it's not just a question

1621
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:24,200
Speaker 6: of robotic you know, insert this background you can get

1622
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:24,960
Speaker 6: this politics.

1623
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:28,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for you as a Star Wars fan, you know,

1624
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:30,800
Speaker 2: we're talking about this on a really kind of deep

1625
01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:34,640
Speaker 2: political level, and like you said, Rogue One definitely was.

1626
01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:36,599
Speaker 2: There was a reason that a lot of Star Wars

1627
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:39,680
Speaker 2: fans loved it, which was, oh, well, this is this

1628
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:41,640
Speaker 2: is the people who have to die before you know,

1629
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 2: Luke and Layer can get a medal. Like, let's talk

1630
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 2: about that and what kind of expands on that exponentially.

1631
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:49,720
Speaker 2: But you know, even as a Star Wars fan, like

1632
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:54,240
Speaker 2: you said, inherently a political franchise, even though usually quite vague,

1633
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:57,639
Speaker 2: I found myself like incredibly surprised. And me and Jason

1634
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 2: have talked about this a lot. To see a a

1635
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:05,240
Speaker 2: prison slavery plot line and to get people on the

1636
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:08,200
Speaker 2: side of people who are in prison, who are being

1637
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 2: exploited for their labor, and then to cheer them on

1638
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 2: for a prison breakout, you know, for a riot and

1639
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:17,280
Speaker 2: to get people on their side. Were you surprised as

1640
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:19,200
Speaker 2: you were watching the show to see the kind of

1641
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 2: political analogs it was taking and the stories they decided

1642
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:22,719
Speaker 2: to tell.

1643
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, look, you know that the protagonist is

1644
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:31,639
Speaker 6: a character who's father is a black man who's killed

1645
01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:37,479
Speaker 6: by the cops. Like, you know, there's just you know,

1646
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 6: I think that, you know, because of my politics, I think,

1647
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:43,479
Speaker 6: you know, obviously I tend to see some of the

1648
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 6: more left wing and analogies in the story. I think

1649
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:47,680
Speaker 6: there are right wing ones. I mean, I think the

1650
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:51,920
Speaker 6: Empire's violence secularism is obviously you know, in keeping with

1651
01:33:53,120 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 6: you know, left wing, repressive, left wing regimes around the world.

1652
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 6: Or I don't think that's a mistake, or you know,

1653
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:06,599
Speaker 6: the they are drawn from a lot of Like I said,

1654
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:08,280
Speaker 6: they're drawing from a lot of sources. I don't think

1655
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:11,960
Speaker 6: I was surprised because Rogue One was so clearly playing

1656
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:16,920
Speaker 6: in those waters. I did not expect them to weave

1657
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:18,920
Speaker 6: them so skillfully into the story of the show. In

1658
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:21,480
Speaker 6: such a way that the show does not feel didactic

1659
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:24,920
Speaker 6: to me. You know, when you read out the sort

1660
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 6: of list of plot developments and character motivations and things

1661
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:34,519
Speaker 6: like that, it does feel very political. But in the

1662
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:38,240
Speaker 6: show it feels very organic. It does not feel like

1663
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:40,800
Speaker 6: you are being battered over the head with a particular

1664
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 6: political ideology. Now maybe, you know, maybe that's because I'm

1665
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:47,800
Speaker 6: you know, I'm a left to set a person, so

1666
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:52,760
Speaker 6: that's just I'm sympathetic, But I do think that I

1667
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:56,120
Speaker 6: do think that narratively that you know, it is a

1668
01:34:56,160 --> 01:35:01,160
Speaker 6: good show that just happens to have, you know, plot

1669
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:05,679
Speaker 6: points that illustrate a particular kind of politics, but they're

1670
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:07,320
Speaker 6: not the most important thing in the show. The most

1671
01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:10,200
Speaker 6: important thing in the show is that the narrative flows

1672
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:16,640
Speaker 6: organically and movingly and artistically, and it's not simply you know,

1673
01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:19,280
Speaker 6: battering you over the head with what to think. At

1674
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:21,200
Speaker 6: the same time, again, like look, you know, this is

1675
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:24,360
Speaker 6: Star Wars, like it's an anti imperial the story is

1676
01:35:24,360 --> 01:35:26,760
Speaker 6: always going to be antipol It doesn't matter who the who,

1677
01:35:27,160 --> 01:35:30,280
Speaker 6: you know, what form the empire takes, whether it's like

1678
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 6: fifty thousand years in the past or whatever, and it's

1679
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:35,839
Speaker 6: a sip empire, or it's you know, the galactic empire

1680
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 6: that we see in the original trilogy or the first

1681
01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:42,480
Speaker 6: Order we see in a sequel trilogy. You know that

1682
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:44,639
Speaker 6: that is always you know, in some sense, that kind

1683
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:48,679
Speaker 6: of rebellion is always that anti authoritarian politics is always

1684
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:49,719
Speaker 6: going to be President's story.

1685
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:54,360
Speaker 1: Something that Rosie and I have been really interested in

1686
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:59,000
Speaker 1: discussing and noting is like the seemingly very conscious human

1687
01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:02,400
Speaker 1: supremacy of this story. Star Wars is a you know,

1688
01:36:02,479 --> 01:36:05,000
Speaker 1: it's a story in a world, in a galaxy populated

1689
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:09,479
Speaker 1: by lots of different species and and droids, but this

1690
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:15,439
Speaker 1: is a story centered around humans, particularly empire. You don't

1691
01:36:15,640 --> 01:36:18,679
Speaker 1: see any droids at the highest levels of the decision

1692
01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:24,000
Speaker 1: making the ISB. You mostly see people and white people

1693
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:27,559
Speaker 1: and very few women. Even in this kind of like

1694
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:31,360
Speaker 1: nascent rebellion. You know, Sagerera has as a pretty in

1695
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:35,479
Speaker 1: graded crew. But that's it. I wonder if you might

1696
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:38,760
Speaker 1: expound on, you know, what, what do you think the

1697
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:44,839
Speaker 1: human supremacy of this story, you know, means to the story?

1698
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:48,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think you know, if you're a

1699
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:51,200
Speaker 6: Star Wars fan, there's a you know that there's a

1700
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 6: long time narrative narrative explanation for this, which is that

1701
01:36:57,760 --> 01:36:59,560
Speaker 6: you know, the Empire is racist. The Empire is the

1702
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:03,639
Speaker 6: humans a premicist organization. And you know in Rogue one

1703
01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:07,080
Speaker 6: you see you see more weird aliens fighting on the

1704
01:37:07,120 --> 01:37:12,120
Speaker 6: beach alongside the rebellion and here in and Or, uh,

1705
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:16,600
Speaker 6: you know, there is a conscious effort to portray the

1706
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:21,439
Speaker 6: protagonists as being sympathetic to droids and aliens in a

1707
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 6: way that the Empire is not. I mean, obviously B

1708
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:27,920
Speaker 6: two Emo is probably the most sympathetic non comic relief

1709
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:29,719
Speaker 6: portrayal of a droid we've ever seen.

1710
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's basically a very very sweet dog, very.

1711
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:37,160
Speaker 6: But and you know, some of that is in Rogue one,

1712
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:41,800
Speaker 6: you know, the the reprogram imperial droid whose name is

1713
01:37:42,439 --> 01:37:44,599
Speaker 6: wagon on k K T s O. Right. I mean,

1714
01:37:44,640 --> 01:37:48,880
Speaker 6: like you know when when he sacrifices himself, you know,

1715
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 6: and Or is upset he knows his friend is dead.

1716
01:37:52,360 --> 01:37:53,800
Speaker 6: I mean, he's so, but he's sort of at the

1717
01:37:53,800 --> 01:37:57,200
Speaker 6: same time he treats him like, you know, you're my droid,

1718
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:01,080
Speaker 6: where it's like B two Emo, there is that moment, uh,

1719
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:02,920
Speaker 6: you know where he's like, I don't want to leave

1720
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:06,200
Speaker 6: the house. Yeah, when and he's like, well, I'll stay

1721
01:38:06,200 --> 01:38:08,680
Speaker 6: with you, which is like, you know, a level of

1722
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 6: droids are people that I think we haven't seen before,

1723
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:18,439
Speaker 6: so which I think is like, you know, pulling in

1724
01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:20,920
Speaker 6: one of the more problematic threads of Star Wars, which

1725
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:24,240
Speaker 6: is that droids are you know, sort of slaves, but

1726
01:38:24,280 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 6: nobody ever really acknowledges that. But yeah, I mean, I think,

1727
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:31,360
Speaker 6: you know, we see you know, and then we we

1728
01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:33,680
Speaker 6: get that moment where they're escaping from the prison and

1729
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:36,360
Speaker 6: they're you know, they try to they try to hot

1730
01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:40,800
Speaker 6: wire the ship of two fishing aliens, and aliens could

1731
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 6: turn them in, but they don't instead because they're like, well,

1732
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:45,560
Speaker 6: we're not going to turn them into the Empire. The

1733
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:48,960
Speaker 6: Empire like we don't like those guys. Yeah, you know,

1734
01:38:49,040 --> 01:38:51,760
Speaker 6: I think I would expect, I mean, the two things

1735
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:56,600
Speaker 6: that you know, I expect from the second season of

1736
01:38:56,680 --> 01:38:59,879
Speaker 6: the show, other than a high body count or problem,

1737
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:04,920
Speaker 6: some explanation, like some further explanation of of like sort

1738
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:07,720
Speaker 6: of lay religion when it comes to the forest that

1739
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:12,280
Speaker 6: we saw on Rogue one, and probably like more dealing

1740
01:39:12,360 --> 01:39:14,599
Speaker 6: with aliens, although I think, you know, to some extent

1741
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:16,760
Speaker 6: even though there is a narrative explanation for why you

1742
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:19,840
Speaker 6: don't see so many aliens. You know, I think there's

1743
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 6: probably some budget constraints as well. I mean, I think

1744
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:25,120
Speaker 6: there's probably like one of the reasons and or looks

1745
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:28,880
Speaker 6: so good compared to some other Disney Plus series is

1746
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 6: there's a tremendously well done allocation of budget there where

1747
01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:37,040
Speaker 6: the story is done in such a way as to

1748
01:39:37,080 --> 01:39:40,479
Speaker 6: require a few moments of like crazy special effects, but

1749
01:39:40,600 --> 01:39:45,280
Speaker 6: not as many. You know, you don't have you know,

1750
01:39:45,560 --> 01:39:47,960
Speaker 6: you don't have two giant dragons fighting each other or

1751
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:51,040
Speaker 6: something like that. You know what I mean that this

1752
01:39:51,120 --> 01:39:53,920
Speaker 6: is a story that it's it's I mean like even

1753
01:39:53,960 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 6: you know, the sort of final episode like is like

1754
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:58,080
Speaker 6: a Shakespeare play where all the characters are on the

1755
01:39:58,080 --> 01:40:00,360
Speaker 6: stage at the same time. Like it's written sort of

1756
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:05,720
Speaker 6: like almost like a play, and so you know, it

1757
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:09,880
Speaker 6: does not require it didn't have. You know, there are

1758
01:40:10,120 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 6: a couple of moments, like you know, when when Luten

1759
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:15,040
Speaker 6: escapes in his ship that are like obviously, like we

1760
01:40:15,080 --> 01:40:16,760
Speaker 6: spend a lot of money on this and it was

1761
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:21,240
Speaker 6: very satisfying, but you know, I don't know how much

1762
01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:23,920
Speaker 6: of the lack of aliens is a question of budget

1763
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:26,679
Speaker 6: constraints or how much of it is a demand of narrative.

1764
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:28,920
Speaker 6: But you know, those are always you know, those are

1765
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:31,679
Speaker 6: conflicts that even shows that are fund about the mouse

1766
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 6: have to make.

1767
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and also as well, like those are the

1768
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:40,320
Speaker 2: confines of the budget can often birth really exciting things.

1769
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:43,200
Speaker 2: So I think the fact that it probably was driven

1770
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:45,439
Speaker 2: by a budget, but then it leads to people having

1771
01:40:45,479 --> 01:40:48,479
Speaker 2: conversations like this about whether it's deeper connected to the

1772
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:52,080
Speaker 2: narrative is part of kind of the wonder of these shows.

1773
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:55,439
Speaker 2: I mean, nobody expected a twelve episode Star Wars show

1774
01:40:55,479 --> 01:40:57,920
Speaker 2: to look so incredible because we all just assumed it

1775
01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:00,800
Speaker 2: was going to be the six episode budget stretched over

1776
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:04,599
Speaker 2: twelve episodes. So it's definitely a surprising tind of event.

1777
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:07,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it's like it's it's impossible, like how

1778
01:41:07,400 --> 01:41:10,360
Speaker 6: do you how do you explain how and or looks

1779
01:41:10,360 --> 01:41:13,000
Speaker 6: the way it does in Book of Boba Filix the

1780
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:14,720
Speaker 6: way it does, like how do you know what I mean?

1781
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:17,120
Speaker 6: Like it's this I mean even like let's just take

1782
01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:21,600
Speaker 6: away the sort of quality of the writing whatever, you know,

1783
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:24,320
Speaker 6: they these shows look completely different.

1784
01:41:24,439 --> 01:41:27,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, the production design of Pheryx is so textured, it

1785
01:41:27,439 --> 01:41:30,840
Speaker 2: feels so real. The finale really leans into that, and

1786
01:41:30,880 --> 01:41:34,080
Speaker 2: also extras I think that's the biggest thing. There's so

1787
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:36,240
Speaker 2: many people in and Or, but the Book of Boba

1788
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:41,320
Speaker 2: fairt everywhere you go, only six people live there. Doesn't

1789
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:41,800
Speaker 2: feel it.

1790
01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:43,920
Speaker 6: Feels it doesn't feel lived in. It feels like you're

1791
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:45,800
Speaker 6: you're you're looking at a set and I'm not even

1792
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:47,360
Speaker 6: I mean, at some point I was questioning, like, how

1793
01:41:47,439 --> 01:41:49,479
Speaker 6: much of the Spherics set has been used in like

1794
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:54,840
Speaker 6: other Star Wars shows. Yeah, it's and somehow it feels unrecognizable,

1795
01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:57,320
Speaker 6: like you're not like, oh, this is obviously most icily

1796
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:00,240
Speaker 6: you know that's that's not the reaction you have looking

1797
01:42:00,320 --> 01:42:03,720
Speaker 6: at Ferrex. You know consciously that this has probably been

1798
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:06,840
Speaker 6: used before, but it's not. It doesn't. It doesn't feel

1799
01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:08,880
Speaker 6: that way because of the way they do it.

1800
01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:12,200
Speaker 1: To your point, Rosie, I think part of this, another

1801
01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:14,840
Speaker 1: thing we've talked about in past discussions of the show

1802
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:18,400
Speaker 1: is this is really tales of the Jedi side, the

1803
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:21,759
Speaker 1: first depiction of mass protest in a Star Wars universe

1804
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:24,240
Speaker 1: that's real, kind of like Battleship potempk and feel of

1805
01:42:24,240 --> 01:42:29,840
Speaker 1: an uprising. You know, against impossible imperial odds. We've never

1806
01:42:29,880 --> 01:42:33,360
Speaker 1: seen that before in Star Wars, and it really packs

1807
01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:39,360
Speaker 1: a kind of emotional and very ambiguous political punch. You know,

1808
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:42,559
Speaker 1: who doesn't love freedom? You know, people people have crossed

1809
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:45,400
Speaker 1: the ideological spectrum love to talk about freedom. But yet

1810
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:48,599
Speaker 1: the I think part of why it looks so great

1811
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:53,720
Speaker 1: is look at all these people here that are protesting

1812
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:56,719
Speaker 1: against the empire. This is incredible to see.

1813
01:42:56,960 --> 01:42:59,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think Star Wars. I think that

1814
01:43:00,120 --> 01:43:02,240
Speaker 6: truth is that the politics of Star Wars were always

1815
01:43:02,280 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 6: the sort of you know, nineteenth century republicanism in a

1816
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:14,160
Speaker 6: way that was uncontroversial until recently. Yeah, when people started

1817
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:21,480
Speaker 6: you know, uh being like you know, romanticizing like Francoist

1818
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:25,479
Speaker 6: Spain or something like that. You know, this sort of

1819
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:30,240
Speaker 6: like weird neo falangism that you see amongst you know,

1820
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:37,479
Speaker 6: certain circles. But you know, I think I think to

1821
01:43:37,479 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 6: some extent, that shift in our own politics is really

1822
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:45,479
Speaker 6: the thing that's changed the most. You know, I think, uh,

1823
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:49,599
Speaker 6: you know, and or has like some reflections of our

1824
01:43:49,800 --> 01:43:54,360
Speaker 6: era in terms of you know, uh, mass incarceration, the

1825
01:43:55,240 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 6: issues that animated the George Floyd protests, you know, questions

1826
01:43:59,479 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 6: about uh, equal protection under the law. But I think

1827
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:09,160
Speaker 6: it's politics will not seem so radical to us were

1828
01:44:09,200 --> 01:44:12,479
Speaker 6: it not for our political context. I'm not sure that

1829
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:16,920
Speaker 6: it will feel that way necessarily to future generations. Yeah,

1830
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:20,439
Speaker 6: I mean, you know Star Wars itself, despite you know,

1831
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:23,519
Speaker 6: the original, despite sort of you know, Lucas saying well,

1832
01:44:23,640 --> 01:44:25,080
Speaker 6: you know, the rebels are kind of like the Viet

1833
01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:27,840
Speaker 6: Cong or whatever. You know, people didn't interpret it that

1834
01:44:27,880 --> 01:44:30,320
Speaker 6: way at the time. Like nobody, nobody who went to

1835
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:32,880
Speaker 6: see Star Wars in nineteen seventy seven. Not nobody, you know,

1836
01:44:32,880 --> 01:44:33,760
Speaker 6: I can't say that.

1837
01:44:33,680 --> 01:44:38,599
Speaker 1: But yes, the people that were queuing me and four

1838
01:44:38,640 --> 01:44:40,760
Speaker 1: times a day to watch the movie.

1839
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:43,560
Speaker 6: Right, people were like laser Stords and spacey you know,

1840
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:47,400
Speaker 6: and like the rebels are us obviously look at these

1841
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 6: British accents. Yeah, and that's that's another thing, like you know,

1842
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:56,320
Speaker 6: this sort of like strain of like irreligion in the Empire.

1843
01:44:56,439 --> 01:44:58,120
Speaker 6: It's like, you think about one of the best things

1844
01:44:58,120 --> 01:45:00,920
Speaker 6: that Star Wars does. It takes like little threat it's

1845
01:45:01,680 --> 01:45:04,120
Speaker 6: from from from previous installments and draws them out. So

1846
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:06,640
Speaker 6: you have, you know, the scene in the first in

1847
01:45:06,680 --> 01:45:09,439
Speaker 6: a New Hope, which is like you know, some imperial

1848
01:45:09,439 --> 01:45:12,560
Speaker 6: general saying to something you know, uh, you know, you

1849
01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:15,519
Speaker 6: don't frighten us with your source service ways, Lord Vader,

1850
01:45:15,600 --> 01:45:18,519
Speaker 6: your sad devotion to that ancient religion, you know, just

1851
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:21,839
Speaker 6: like contempt for faith that like you know, then spins

1852
01:45:21,880 --> 01:45:24,479
Speaker 6: into like everything we're talking about. Or like there's a

1853
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:28,000
Speaker 6: line in Rogue one where Cheiritt says something about and

1854
01:45:28,120 --> 01:45:30,120
Speaker 6: or or like this one has a prison in him

1855
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:32,320
Speaker 6: and he takes it with him wherever he goes. Like

1856
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:34,280
Speaker 6: now you look back at that line, Yeah, you're like

1857
01:45:34,439 --> 01:45:38,519
Speaker 6: a holy shit. And this is something that's I mean,

1858
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:40,479
Speaker 6: like you know, this is something that Star Wars does,

1859
01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:44,000
Speaker 6: Like you know that scene in In a New Hope

1860
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:46,840
Speaker 6: where Luke runs into the Millennium Falk and he has

1861
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 6: to abandon obi Wan, who you know it is, is

1862
01:45:50,040 --> 01:45:52,599
Speaker 6: about to be killed by Vader. You know, that's like

1863
01:45:52,920 --> 01:45:58,080
Speaker 6: the last the completion of Order sixty six, except you

1864
01:45:58,080 --> 01:46:00,680
Speaker 6: don't know that because it's nineteen seventy seven. But it's

1865
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:03,959
Speaker 6: like that scene where like a padawan has to abandon

1866
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:07,439
Speaker 6: his master who's being killed by the Empire like that.

1867
01:46:07,479 --> 01:46:10,160
Speaker 6: We've seen that replay over and over. Yeah, which is

1868
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:14,160
Speaker 6: self you know, which which you know, is it's like

1869
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:17,639
Speaker 6: you can retcon Star Wars in a way that makes

1870
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:20,160
Speaker 6: prior moments that were supposed to be one thing means

1871
01:46:20,200 --> 01:46:23,360
Speaker 6: something completely different and being emotionally resonant in a completely

1872
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:25,200
Speaker 6: different way. And it's something that I don't I'm not.

1873
01:46:25,360 --> 01:46:29,400
Speaker 6: It's hard to think of another genre or another you know,

1874
01:46:30,120 --> 01:46:34,160
Speaker 6: another universe in fictional universe in which that kind of

1875
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:36,120
Speaker 6: thing is really possible in the same way. I mean,

1876
01:46:36,160 --> 01:46:38,639
Speaker 6: other people try to do it. I won't mention any names,

1877
01:46:38,640 --> 01:46:40,200
Speaker 6: but other people have tried to do it in a

1878
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:43,280
Speaker 6: way that seems like hackey and like just you know,

1879
01:46:43,439 --> 01:46:47,360
Speaker 6: trying to preserve a particular brand's relevance for for for

1880
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:50,439
Speaker 6: a certain moment. But with this, it's like people take

1881
01:46:50,479 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 6: something like like Dave Filonia will take something that was

1882
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:56,519
Speaker 6: in the prequels, the original trilogy and spin it out

1883
01:46:56,600 --> 01:47:00,640
Speaker 6: into some narrative complexity that becomes wonderful. And that's and

1884
01:47:00,760 --> 01:47:03,320
Speaker 6: or sort of like that on a grand.

1885
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:06,160
Speaker 2: Scale, Yeah, you touched a little bit, I think as well.

1886
01:47:06,200 --> 01:47:10,639
Speaker 2: On the trajectory of Star Wars is quite unusual because

1887
01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:12,719
Speaker 2: for a long time it was kept alive by these

1888
01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:16,559
Speaker 2: you know, expanded universe. Now known as legends novels. So

1889
01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:18,920
Speaker 2: in that way, people have always been taking those little

1890
01:47:18,920 --> 01:47:21,320
Speaker 2: threads and expanding it out, whether it's a book about

1891
01:47:21,320 --> 01:47:24,599
Speaker 2: a character that you didn't realize could have this kind

1892
01:47:24,600 --> 01:47:28,280
Speaker 2: of complex interior life. And then that is now continued

1893
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:32,200
Speaker 2: in the way that new creators are taking things and

1894
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:36,400
Speaker 2: collaborating on old ideas to kind of keep the IP going.

1895
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:39,400
Speaker 2: But it's kind of one of the blessings of that

1896
01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:41,759
Speaker 2: constraint of, oh, we need to keep this IP alive,

1897
01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:43,760
Speaker 2: we need to keep people caring about it. You get

1898
01:47:43,760 --> 01:47:47,040
Speaker 2: creators who sometimes come in and see something like Tony

1899
01:47:47,080 --> 01:47:49,559
Speaker 2: Gilroy saw and the possibilities of this story to kind

1900
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:53,960
Speaker 2: of tell an entirely different to show an entirely different

1901
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:58,880
Speaker 2: version of what we've seen before. So you wrote your

1902
01:47:58,920 --> 01:48:02,439
Speaker 2: piece before this had ended. We are now post to

1903
01:48:02,560 --> 01:48:04,559
Speaker 2: the finale of and Or. How do you feel like

1904
01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:08,920
Speaker 2: the show hit looking Back is now that you've seen

1905
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:09,719
Speaker 2: the first season.

1906
01:48:12,400 --> 01:48:14,680
Speaker 6: I mean, look, it's it's obviously. I think it's one

1907
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:20,160
Speaker 6: of the best interpretations of this universe that we've ever

1908
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:23,160
Speaker 6: seen Artistically from a narrative perspective, I think it's tremendous,

1909
01:48:23,320 --> 01:48:26,639
Speaker 6: you know, just in terms of portraying what motivates someone

1910
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:31,400
Speaker 6: to be a rebel or to line up with the empire.

1911
01:48:32,160 --> 01:48:35,240
Speaker 6: I think that's just the question that you know, was

1912
01:48:35,280 --> 01:48:38,640
Speaker 6: not necessarily previously asked. I mean, I think or at

1913
01:48:38,720 --> 01:48:41,840
Speaker 6: least not asked and answered in a way that felt satisfying.

1914
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:45,800
Speaker 6: I mean, when you look at the prequels, you know,

1915
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:48,120
Speaker 6: this is sort of the point of the prequels was

1916
01:48:48,160 --> 01:48:51,200
Speaker 6: to say, this is how Darth Vader happened. Yeah, right,

1917
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:56,680
Speaker 6: And you know, the world building in the prequels was

1918
01:48:57,880 --> 01:49:00,760
Speaker 6: so good that it created a lot of potential, right,

1919
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:03,920
Speaker 6: but the ultimate narrative of how Darth Vader happened felt

1920
01:49:04,080 --> 01:49:06,320
Speaker 6: very unsatisfying for a lot of people. And then you

1921
01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:09,760
Speaker 6: had Clone Wars, you know, which really pulled it this

1922
01:49:09,880 --> 01:49:13,040
Speaker 6: thread and like portrayed it, like showed this like evolution

1923
01:49:13,240 --> 01:49:19,480
Speaker 6: of Anakin as someone who is like slowly being radicalized,

1924
01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:24,439
Speaker 6: so that between episode two and episode three, you know,

1925
01:49:24,520 --> 01:49:28,120
Speaker 6: Clone Wars gives a tale of how Anakin becomes more

1926
01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:32,839
Speaker 6: and more desperate and attached from you know, his own

1927
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:38,560
Speaker 6: self discipline so as to make himself vulnerable to Palpatine's manipulations,

1928
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:41,960
Speaker 6: and that so so again in the Grand Tradition, of

1929
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:45,240
Speaker 6: like Rogue one filling a giant Star Wars plot hole.

1930
01:49:45,320 --> 01:49:49,559
Speaker 6: Why would the Empire have a super weapon with such

1931
01:49:49,600 --> 01:49:52,120
Speaker 6: an easy way to destroy it? Like, I mean, that's

1932
01:49:52,160 --> 01:49:54,960
Speaker 6: what Rogue one is, right, it is a movie that

1933
01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:58,080
Speaker 6: is devoted Why did the Empire build something that you

1934
01:49:58,080 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 6: could destroy so easily with this like one loophole? And

1935
01:50:01,400 --> 01:50:03,960
Speaker 6: the answers, Oh, because this guy did it as like

1936
01:50:04,479 --> 01:50:08,559
Speaker 6: an act of ultimate revenge against the Empire, Like that's

1937
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:11,360
Speaker 6: you know, in the same grand tradition, Like how why

1938
01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:15,200
Speaker 6: does Anakin show up in episode three as like sort

1939
01:50:15,200 --> 01:50:18,760
Speaker 6: of a psychopath? And the answers, you know, he's been

1940
01:50:18,760 --> 01:50:22,200
Speaker 6: frustrated for the Jedi Order for years. They unfairly expelled

1941
01:50:22,200 --> 01:50:24,439
Speaker 6: his potwan they you know, there's all the stuff that

1942
01:50:24,920 --> 01:50:28,240
Speaker 6: gets filled in that helps make the narrative return make

1943
01:50:28,280 --> 01:50:30,599
Speaker 6: more sense. And I think and Or, you know, both

1944
01:50:30,680 --> 01:50:33,840
Speaker 6: Rogue one and and Or gives us that, well, what

1945
01:50:33,960 --> 01:50:38,320
Speaker 6: happened before episode four, you know what happened to get

1946
01:50:38,439 --> 01:50:40,599
Speaker 6: to how did how is the Rebellion build? It gives

1947
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:42,559
Speaker 6: us these answers in a way that I think is

1948
01:50:42,720 --> 01:50:50,439
Speaker 6: extremely satisfying, building on you know, not just the the

1949
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:54,240
Speaker 6: the not just the good parts of the old universe,

1950
01:50:54,280 --> 01:50:56,000
Speaker 6: but even the bad part. I mean, that's that's one

1951
01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:57,720
Speaker 6: of the great things is that you could take a

1952
01:50:57,720 --> 01:51:00,959
Speaker 6: plot hole as big as why is why is destroying

1953
01:51:00,960 --> 01:51:03,759
Speaker 6: the Death Star? So as easy as you know, shooting

1954
01:51:03,800 --> 01:51:07,600
Speaker 6: a torpedo into an exhaust port and spin like a

1955
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:11,160
Speaker 6: beautiful explanation out of it that is emotionally compelling, And

1956
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:13,240
Speaker 6: it's like again, it's this is a plot hole. This

1957
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:16,400
Speaker 6: is a you know, a flaw in the original storytelling,

1958
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:20,000
Speaker 6: and you know, and they somehow made a great story

1959
01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:22,639
Speaker 6: out of it, and that's you know, that's that's part

1960
01:51:22,680 --> 01:51:24,400
Speaker 6: of the magic of the universe for me.

1961
01:51:26,280 --> 01:51:29,200
Speaker 1: Adam, thank you so much for joining us. Do you

1962
01:51:29,200 --> 01:51:30,080
Speaker 1: have anything to plug?

1963
01:51:30,280 --> 01:51:32,960
Speaker 6: You know, I'll plug our World Cup newsletter right now.

1964
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:34,920
Speaker 6: The World Cup is going on. This is a whole

1965
01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:38,200
Speaker 6: other aspect of of my nerd life, but the World

1966
01:51:38,200 --> 01:51:40,639
Speaker 6: Cup is going on. Atlantic has a World Cup news letter,

1967
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:44,559
Speaker 6: The Great Game. I'm not the only person writing it.

1968
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:47,759
Speaker 6: There's a lot of other people writing great writers, Clint Smith,

1969
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:51,799
Speaker 6: Adam Harris, Frank Bower, and I highly recommend it, especially

1970
01:51:51,880 --> 01:51:56,679
Speaker 6: if you are not, uh, you know, a super soccer fan.

1971
01:51:56,760 --> 01:51:59,760
Speaker 6: This is like more for the people who tune into

1972
01:51:59,760 --> 01:52:03,320
Speaker 6: the World Cup every four years. And that's it. Thank

1973
01:52:03,360 --> 01:52:04,639
Speaker 6: you so much for having me on the show.

1974
01:52:05,040 --> 01:52:07,240
Speaker 1: One last thing do you want to this is your

1975
01:52:07,400 --> 01:52:10,920
Speaker 1: this is your opportunity, perfect opportunity to to talk trash

1976
01:52:10,920 --> 01:52:15,680
Speaker 1: about Chase Serrano, our mutual in a context that that

1977
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:18,920
Speaker 1: he that might get back to him. And then, uh so,

1978
01:52:19,880 --> 01:52:22,840
Speaker 1: any any burns, any roasts of Shay that you'd like

1979
01:52:22,920 --> 01:52:24,599
Speaker 1: to share on the program today.

1980
01:52:25,240 --> 01:52:27,200
Speaker 6: You know, if you had prepared me, I would have.

1981
01:52:27,280 --> 01:52:31,439
Speaker 6: I would have thought one up, made a Google docab,

1982
01:52:33,320 --> 01:52:34,920
Speaker 6: I would have made it. I would have made an

1983
01:52:34,920 --> 01:52:39,120
Speaker 6: Excel document with all my possible Shay zingers. But it's

1984
01:52:39,120 --> 01:52:42,400
Speaker 6: hard though, because we're both like, uh you know, we're

1985
01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:47,960
Speaker 6: both like bald, high little hobbits. So you know, it

1986
01:52:47,960 --> 01:52:49,479
Speaker 6: gets to like anything I said, what am I going

1987
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:51,360
Speaker 6: to say about Shaye that isn't also true about me?

1988
01:52:53,560 --> 01:52:55,360
Speaker 6: But yeah, I just so, I guess that'll kind of

1989
01:52:55,360 --> 01:52:58,360
Speaker 6: is my burn look like that? How about that?

1990
01:53:00,040 --> 01:53:03,040
Speaker 1: Adam? Thank you so much for joining us. Please take care, gosh, yeah,

1991
01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:11,040
Speaker 1: a great day.

1992
01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:12,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1993
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:15,320
Speaker 1: In today's nerd out, where you theorize about your favorite

1994
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:18,120
Speaker 1: fandoms and tell us what you love and why Liz

1995
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:22,360
Speaker 1: theorizes about the Big Man's possible force sensitive nature in

1996
01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:22,800
Speaker 1: and Or.

1997
01:53:23,160 --> 01:53:25,920
Speaker 3: Hey, everybody, friend of the program, Liz here with a

1998
01:53:25,960 --> 01:53:29,240
Speaker 3: wild and Or theory for you. I'm here to talk

1999
01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:32,960
Speaker 3: about the top ten ish reasons that I think that

2000
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:34,840
Speaker 3: the fourth sensitive.

2001
01:53:34,439 --> 01:53:37,400
Speaker 7: Character that we have been introduced to is Braso.

2002
01:53:37,920 --> 01:53:39,880
Speaker 3: Just gonna throw this out here off the top. I

2003
01:53:39,880 --> 01:53:42,599
Speaker 3: am obsessed with this show. It is the best Star

2004
01:53:42,640 --> 01:53:45,519
Speaker 3: Wars I have seen in years, maybe ever, I don't know.

2005
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:48,040
Speaker 3: Got to wait some time for that recency bias to clear,

2006
01:53:48,200 --> 01:53:51,160
Speaker 3: but I'm obsessed with it, and I'm obsessed with it,

2007
01:53:51,200 --> 01:53:55,400
Speaker 3: particularly because it does not follow the same Star Wars formulaic,

2008
01:53:55,920 --> 01:54:00,680
Speaker 3: space magic whatever heroes trope that we've all come to

2009
01:54:00,720 --> 01:54:01,280
Speaker 3: know and love.

2010
01:54:01,920 --> 01:54:06,800
Speaker 7: So I don't want or need a forced sensitive character necessarily.

2011
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:10,800
Speaker 3: However, there are some huge indicators that I've noticed and

2012
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:13,240
Speaker 3: I want to share them here, So right off the bat,

2013
01:54:13,320 --> 01:54:16,640
Speaker 3: number ten probably not the strongest, but hey, if you

2014
01:54:16,680 --> 01:54:19,439
Speaker 3: look at his outfit, he is wearing pretty much the

2015
01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:22,000
Speaker 3: same outfit as one of our other favorite Jedi as

2016
01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:22,559
Speaker 3: we Bridger.

2017
01:54:22,600 --> 01:54:23,080
Speaker 7: That's right.

2018
01:54:23,200 --> 01:54:27,800
Speaker 3: Take a look, folks, orange jumpsuit, kind of a weird thing,

2019
01:54:27,880 --> 01:54:30,040
Speaker 3: and He's also not wearing the same clothes as the.

2020
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:34,280
Speaker 7: Rest of his friends and his working group. Number nine.

2021
01:54:34,360 --> 01:54:35,720
Speaker 7: He is kind to droids.

2022
01:54:35,760 --> 01:54:40,120
Speaker 3: I know that that's not a uniquely Jedi characteristic. However,

2023
01:54:40,440 --> 01:54:44,440
Speaker 3: it is almost universally true within the Jedi that they

2024
01:54:44,480 --> 01:54:49,320
Speaker 3: are kind to droids and other sentient beings in ways

2025
01:54:49,360 --> 01:54:50,640
Speaker 3: that regular humans are not.

2026
01:54:51,720 --> 01:54:52,480
Speaker 7: Number eight.

2027
01:54:53,200 --> 01:54:56,360
Speaker 3: The word force is used incredibly sparingly in the show.

2028
01:54:56,440 --> 01:54:58,720
Speaker 3: I think just a handful of times, and one of

2029
01:54:58,760 --> 01:55:00,160
Speaker 3: those times is brus Oh.

2030
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:02,640
Speaker 7: Yes, he is relaying a message from Marva.

2031
01:55:02,640 --> 01:55:05,400
Speaker 3: However, you cannot ignore the fact that that word is

2032
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:08,280
Speaker 3: only used a handful of times, and one of those

2033
01:55:08,320 --> 01:55:10,360
Speaker 3: times is coming from this man's mouth.

2034
01:55:10,520 --> 01:55:11,240
Speaker 7: Number seven.

2035
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:18,200
Speaker 3: There is something so force poetic about using a brick

2036
01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:23,160
Speaker 3: made of an anti fascist loved one to beat fascists

2037
01:55:23,800 --> 01:55:25,200
Speaker 3: straight up period.

2038
01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:26,640
Speaker 7: Number six.

2039
01:55:27,120 --> 01:55:30,840
Speaker 3: He has an incredible sense of knowledge and timing that

2040
01:55:31,080 --> 01:55:34,040
Speaker 3: I think is a little suspect. For example, in episode three,

2041
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:37,760
Speaker 3: it's implied, or I inferred.

2042
01:55:37,400 --> 01:55:40,000
Speaker 7: That he is the one who tied the.

2043
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:43,839
Speaker 3: Corpos shipped down while they were trying to grab Cassian,

2044
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:46,880
Speaker 3: and he is the one who affixed that ship to it,

2045
01:55:47,320 --> 01:55:51,240
Speaker 3: causing the pilot to die. That pilot was the one

2046
01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:54,920
Speaker 3: who killed Tim. Now to be clear, fucked Tim. He

2047
01:55:55,240 --> 01:55:58,480
Speaker 3: fucking ratted on Cassie into the Corpos. All Corpos are

2048
01:55:58,520 --> 01:56:02,080
Speaker 3: bastards whatever whatever. Attim did not deserve to die like that.

2049
01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:03,560
Speaker 7: Fuck that Corpo.

2050
01:56:04,200 --> 01:56:07,920
Speaker 3: Awesome that Brosso seemed to know that this is the

2051
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:09,640
Speaker 3: dude and this is how to get him.

2052
01:56:10,160 --> 01:56:10,880
Speaker 7: Number five.

2053
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:15,240
Speaker 3: His sense of timing is also pretty incredible, thinking about

2054
01:56:15,280 --> 01:56:20,560
Speaker 3: the fact that he started that funeral with his own

2055
01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:24,160
Speaker 3: sort of motion. That funeral was supposed to take place

2056
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:27,880
Speaker 3: several hours after it it actually did, and the timing

2057
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:31,800
Speaker 3: ended up being such that all of the Imperial guards

2058
01:56:31,920 --> 01:56:35,600
Speaker 3: were away from the hotel when Cassie and needed them

2059
01:56:35,600 --> 01:56:37,960
Speaker 3: to be away so that he could rescue Bicks. Just

2060
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:42,440
Speaker 3: thrown out there, very coincidental timing. Number four. That man

2061
01:56:42,960 --> 01:56:45,600
Speaker 3: knows when to go and when to fight. Look at

2062
01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:48,720
Speaker 3: episode twelve. He is in the thick of that ride.

2063
01:56:48,720 --> 01:56:53,360
Speaker 3: He fucking started that ride rightfully. So how dare that

2064
01:56:53,520 --> 01:56:57,360
Speaker 3: Imperial piece of shit? Kick be too emo? My favorite

2065
01:56:57,440 --> 01:57:00,880
Speaker 3: joy they have maybe Chopper, but very's wrong contender for

2066
01:57:00,920 --> 01:57:04,760
Speaker 3: favor Droid. But he knows when it's time to go,

2067
01:57:05,200 --> 01:57:09,960
Speaker 3: And that's also a uniquely Jedi characteristic number three. Knows

2068
01:57:10,040 --> 01:57:14,960
Speaker 3: what people are doing and feeling. He knows that Cassian

2069
01:57:15,080 --> 01:57:17,160
Speaker 3: has turned a corner when he meets with him in

2070
01:57:17,240 --> 01:57:19,720
Speaker 3: that tunnel. He knows that he's going to go and

2071
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:22,880
Speaker 3: rescue Bicks. He knows that Cassian's not going.

2072
01:57:22,760 --> 01:57:23,480
Speaker 7: To go with them.

2073
01:57:23,520 --> 01:57:27,160
Speaker 3: At the end of episode twelve, he knows that Pegla

2074
01:57:27,240 --> 01:57:28,280
Speaker 3: is not going to go with them.

2075
01:57:28,320 --> 01:57:30,120
Speaker 7: He just seems to know things about people.

2076
01:57:30,120 --> 01:57:33,160
Speaker 3: I think that's very interesting because we don't know anything

2077
01:57:33,200 --> 01:57:35,720
Speaker 3: about him. We don't know where he came from, we

2078
01:57:35,800 --> 01:57:37,960
Speaker 3: don't know if he has family, we don't know what

2079
01:57:38,040 --> 01:57:39,120
Speaker 3: his background is like.

2080
01:57:39,280 --> 01:57:42,560
Speaker 7: And that also lends credit to the theory that he's

2081
01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:45,160
Speaker 7: for sensitive, because the question of course ariveses this man

2082
01:57:45,240 --> 01:57:46,480
Speaker 7: isn't like fifteen years old.

2083
01:57:47,080 --> 01:57:49,680
Speaker 3: Where were the Jedi when he was born? How come

2084
01:57:49,720 --> 01:57:52,960
Speaker 3: they didn't detect his forced sensitivity? If he's for sensitive, truly,

2085
01:57:53,240 --> 01:57:56,600
Speaker 3: we don't know anything about him, and Anakin didn't get detected,

2086
01:57:56,800 --> 01:57:59,040
Speaker 3: so there's a possibility that there are other Force users

2087
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:01,360
Speaker 3: out there that didn't get to We now come to

2088
01:58:02,000 --> 01:58:06,000
Speaker 3: probably the two biggest components to my theory. Number two,

2089
01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:10,120
Speaker 3: that man shook an Imperial detail to go and meet

2090
01:58:10,160 --> 01:58:13,160
Speaker 3: with the most wanted man on Ferris in episode twelve

2091
01:58:13,200 --> 01:58:18,920
Speaker 3: and give him vital information from Marba, basically bolstering him up,

2092
01:58:19,280 --> 01:58:21,560
Speaker 3: allowing him to go and be the hero that he

2093
01:58:21,640 --> 01:58:24,600
Speaker 3: needs to be for the day. I think that's pretty

2094
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:29,960
Speaker 3: Jedi and number one, the Imperials nicknamed him the big Man,

2095
01:58:30,600 --> 01:58:37,400
Speaker 3: this large target, calmly walked through heavy blaster fire to

2096
01:58:37,560 --> 01:58:42,360
Speaker 3: pull out Lill Pop and take him away from danger.

2097
01:58:43,280 --> 01:58:46,560
Speaker 3: Didn't get hit, didn't really even seem fluxed.

2098
01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:49,640
Speaker 7: That's to me pretty indicative.

2099
01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:50,520
Speaker 2: There we go.

2100
01:58:50,800 --> 01:58:54,360
Speaker 7: Those are my top ten. Fight me whatever you want

2101
01:58:54,360 --> 01:58:54,560
Speaker 7: to do.

2102
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:56,800
Speaker 3: But that's what I thought. I am going to close

2103
01:58:57,200 --> 01:58:59,880
Speaker 3: just gushing a little bit. Like I said at the top,

2104
01:59:00,280 --> 01:59:04,160
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with this show. It brings the Star Wars

2105
01:59:04,600 --> 01:59:07,560
Speaker 3: themes that I've been so desperate to see right to

2106
01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:09,440
Speaker 3: the forefront, without using any of the.

2107
01:59:09,440 --> 01:59:12,360
Speaker 7: Tropes that you know Star Wars has come to rely on.

2108
01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:17,320
Speaker 3: I am deeply invested in these characters, knowing that most

2109
01:59:17,360 --> 01:59:21,200
Speaker 3: of them are doomed, and I cannot wait for next season.

2110
01:59:22,080 --> 01:59:23,600
Speaker 7: I'm sure you guys are right there with me.

2111
01:59:24,240 --> 01:59:27,040
Speaker 1: Thanks Liz for submitting. Thank you everyone who's submitted to

2112
01:59:27,120 --> 01:59:29,600
Speaker 1: Nerd outs this year and stay tuned for the return

2113
01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:34,000
Speaker 1: of the segment in twenty twenty three. Huge thank you

2114
01:59:34,040 --> 01:59:37,960
Speaker 1: to Adam Sewerr and of course Rosy Knight, Rosie Plugs,

2115
01:59:38,000 --> 01:59:43,720
Speaker 1: Plugs Plugs, Can you give us one other very vague

2116
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:48,480
Speaker 1: clue about an upcoming secret project that you have?

2117
01:59:48,600 --> 01:59:50,840
Speaker 2: You know, I can actually say, because this is true

2118
01:59:50,840 --> 01:59:52,760
Speaker 2: of a few different things. Yes, I am working. The

2119
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:55,160
Speaker 2: project I'm working on at the moment also has art

2120
01:59:55,160 --> 01:59:58,280
Speaker 2: by the incredible Oliver Ono, so I can say that.

2121
01:59:58,320 --> 02:00:02,560
Speaker 2: So it's a ret and that's a couple of different things,

2122
02:00:02,560 --> 02:00:07,720
Speaker 2: So that's very exciting. Plugs Rosie marks. On Instagram you

2123
02:00:07,800 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 2: can find me and letterbox under the same thing. My

2124
02:00:12,720 --> 02:00:15,880
Speaker 2: biggest plug would be that we are going to be

2125
02:00:16,280 --> 02:00:19,240
Speaker 2: at We're gonna be La Comic Con. If you listen

2126
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:21,600
Speaker 2: to this on Friday, we will be there on Saturday,

2127
02:00:22,120 --> 02:00:22,880
Speaker 2: come and see us.

2128
02:00:22,880 --> 02:00:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm through.

2129
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:26,120
Speaker 2: We will be there tomorrow. It's going to be our

2130
02:00:26,160 --> 02:00:29,560
Speaker 2: first live comic com recording. You should come. It will

2131
02:00:29,560 --> 02:00:33,200
Speaker 2: be really fun and yeah, it we'll just be It

2132
02:00:33,240 --> 02:00:36,080
Speaker 2: will be a blast and eli Comicon's pray chill compared

2133
02:00:36,120 --> 02:00:37,640
Speaker 2: to the other comic cons.

2134
02:00:40,960 --> 02:00:44,520
Speaker 1: Catch our next episode on December ninth. Don't forget to

2135
02:00:44,520 --> 02:00:47,720
Speaker 1: subscribe to the show on YouTube and follow at xrvpod

2136
02:00:47,760 --> 02:00:50,600
Speaker 1: on Twitter who knows for how much longer, and check

2137
02:00:50,640 --> 02:00:53,040
Speaker 1: out the discord and me to hang out with other

2138
02:00:53,320 --> 02:00:56,240
Speaker 1: X ray Vision fans. Rosie and I are there. We

2139
02:00:56,280 --> 02:00:59,360
Speaker 1: are interacting and communicating with everybody there and it's really

2140
02:00:59,400 --> 02:01:03,520
Speaker 1: fun community. Of course, as Rosie said, La Comic Con

2141
02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:07,400
Speaker 1: tomorrow December third, Saturday, December third at eleven thirty am

2142
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:10,360
Speaker 1: and Room four h two come through and see us

2143
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:12,680
Speaker 1: five star reviews. We love them, we need them, We

2144
02:01:12,800 --> 02:01:15,760
Speaker 1: got to have them. Here's one from Hop Jake, a

2145
02:01:15,800 --> 02:01:17,840
Speaker 1: show I never missed. Jason and Rosie have such great

2146
02:01:17,880 --> 02:01:20,480
Speaker 1: chemistry together. When they make each other laugh, you can't

2147
02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:22,640
Speaker 1: help but smile as if you're all sitting at a

2148
02:01:22,680 --> 02:01:26,800
Speaker 1: table with friends nerding out. Thank you, Hop Jake, that's

2149
02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:29,760
Speaker 1: so awesome, and thanksgivings over. But we want to special

2150
02:01:29,760 --> 02:01:31,960
Speaker 1: thank you to everybody who's been listening to the pod

2151
02:01:32,480 --> 02:01:36,400
Speaker 1: and everybody who's been sharing your Spotify wraps. You're end

2152
02:01:36,800 --> 02:01:38,960
Speaker 1: wrap ups of all the stuff you've been listening to

2153
02:01:39,080 --> 02:01:42,240
Speaker 1: on that platform that have included X ray Vision and

2154
02:01:42,280 --> 02:01:44,560
Speaker 1: have tagged us in it. That's so nice of you.

2155
02:01:45,080 --> 02:01:47,760
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you. I wanted to quickly

2156
02:01:47,800 --> 02:01:52,240
Speaker 1: share a note with you about someone who's added a

2157
02:01:52,240 --> 02:01:56,960
Speaker 1: lot to X ray Vision. Brian Vasquez, who composed and

2158
02:01:57,000 --> 02:02:01,000
Speaker 1: produced the music x ray Vision to takeline to various

2159
02:02:01,000 --> 02:02:05,960
Speaker 1: other Cricket pods and also compose the interstitial music, has

2160
02:02:06,040 --> 02:02:09,560
Speaker 1: recently been diagnosed with leukemia. It's very unfortunate that we

2161
02:02:09,600 --> 02:02:15,080
Speaker 1: live in a country where people who fall ill then

2162
02:02:15,200 --> 02:02:18,240
Speaker 1: have to ask for money, but here we are. His

2163
02:02:18,400 --> 02:02:21,200
Speaker 1: family has set up a GoFundMe. If you want to

2164
02:02:21,280 --> 02:02:25,720
Speaker 1: support him and give best wishes to his family, you

2165
02:02:25,760 --> 02:02:29,360
Speaker 1: can find information about that on the show notes. We're

2166
02:02:29,360 --> 02:02:33,000
Speaker 1: wishing the best for Brian and he's in our thoughts.

2167
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:36,080
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show

2168
02:02:36,120 --> 02:02:37,840
Speaker 1: is produced by Chris Lord and Soul Rubin. The show

2169
02:02:37,880 --> 02:02:40,840
Speaker 1: is executive produced by myself and Sandy's Rhard Are editing

2170
02:02:40,840 --> 02:02:44,880
Speaker 1: and sound designers by Vascillis Fatopoulos, Dilon Villanueva and Matt

2171
02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:48,520
Speaker 1: Group provide video production support. Alex Rellaford handle social media.

2172
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:52,200
Speaker 1: Thank you Brian Vasquez for theme music. See you next time,

2173
02:02:52,480 --> 02:03:00,080
Speaker 1: everybody e