WEBVTT - Ep. 178: The Donnie Baker Story - Nightmare (Part 1) 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.720 After a ballgame one evening under a street lights. First 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:11.360 time I seen him. The first time I seen him, 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:13.760 I was one hundred percent sure he's two hundred inch deer, 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:15.720 which I'd never seen a while deer with two hundred 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:18.640 inch and still at that time wanted to kill this deer. 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:22.919 Right, we're slipping into the year twenty twenty four behind 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.599 the dull thwack of a bow string as a steel 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.000 tipped arrow arches into the throat patch of a two 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.920 hundred and four and four to eight inch drop time 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:38.840 Missouri whitetail buck. This might sound like a moment of celebration, 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.440 but you'd be mistaken if you thought that. For this archer, 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.760 it was the beginning of a nightmare. On this episode, 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.760 we're going to reveal the details of an egregious wildlife crime. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.560 But we won't be talking to the warden who cracked 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.280 the case or the property owner of where the buck 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.680 was poached. We're going to talk to the guy who's 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.080 squeak the trigger, who devised a plan to falsify the 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.640 location of the kill and decided the only thing that 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.440 he could do was live. We will meet the man who, 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.400 in two thousand and nine illegally killed a Boone and 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:18.880 Crockett class buck on the Fort Leonardwood Military base near Waynesville, Missouri. 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.080 It's a rare occurrence when someone is willing to open 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.440 up about their failures. But that's exactly why I was 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:30.600 intrigued by this story and this man, this poacher. However, 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:34.080 as the hackles of justice rise on your neck, I 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.800 want to raise a question of my own. How is 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:41.839 a society do we judge criminals? How do we decide 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.960 if we demand justice or extend mercy? How do we 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:50.320 decide who to forgive? Because it's clear that each situation 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.720 is treated differently, we'll learn that it has a lot 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:58.720 to do with how the accused apologize. I'm interested in 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:03.040 the metrics use to evaluate this story. We'll be talking 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.080 with an expert to learn more. But the answer of 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.520 this should be evident because you likely cast judgment and 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.840 forgiveness almost daily, and the answer will shine deeply into 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:18.080 our humanness, our value systems, and sometimes our own hypocrisy. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.640 And hey, if you want to hear all about and 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:25.840 I mean all about how poaching this giant deer went down, 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:28.160 then you're not going to want to miss this one. 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.520 To walk up on him and grab his antlers. You 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.600 should feel the most excitement you've ever had in your life, 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.040 other than like one of your kids being born or something. 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.440 And I kind of have the opposite feeling, and immediately 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:42.800 I thought, there's no way that I'm going to get 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:43.200 away with this. 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.520 My name is Clay Nukem, and this is the Bear 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:01.560 Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.280 for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:09.440 story of Americans who live their lives close to the land. 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:15.840 Presented by FHF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.360 fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:39.520 place as we explore. As I travel through central Missouri, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.839 stopping at gas stations, having lunch in a small town 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.880 catfish restaurant, I'm struck by how mid American this place is. 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.760 The geographic center of America is Lebanon, Kansas, but I'd 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.960 be tempted to think that it's Dixon, Missouri, which is 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.520 derned near the center of the show me state. And 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.240 I really like miss Zuri like the gouy center of 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.080 a cinnamon roll. The people are hospitable, genuine and modest. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:11.560 They seem more trusting than the exterior parts of America. 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.080 My trip up here started about a week prior. I'd 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:17.760 been contacted by a guy paying Brent and I a 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.800 much appreciated compliment when he slipped in a few sentences 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.479 that caught my attention like a mule when a feed 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.600 bucket rattles. He wrote, I killed a two hundred and 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.120 four inch buck on Fort Leonard Wood in two thousand 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.560 and nine. I let greed in the thought that I 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:36.920 had to kill him to be a man get the 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.080 best of me. A buddy of mine posted a picture 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.599 on a website and it blew up. Two weeks after 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.480 I killed him, I was arrested at work and things 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:52.880 got bad. The message continued on with more details, but 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.800 he insinuated that his life unraveled after the event in 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.880 the bigger way than the confiscations and fines instituted by 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.720 a government agency. Something about him and the story caught 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.640 my attention. It wasn't just the size of the buck, 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.880 but a rare genuineness in him. I caught the whiff 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.680 of a man who'd been through the ringer, and I 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.880 figured yet a unique angle on life. At first, I 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.320 didn't know what his motivation would be for talking, but 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.400 I was about to find out. In my next message, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.920 I asked if he'd be willing to tell this story publicly. 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.200 To my surprise, he said that he would. I want 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:36.560 you guys to meet Donnie Baker of Dixon, Missouri. He's 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:41.200 forty years old, a widower, a father of two teenage children. 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.560 He loves to run beagles and bowhunt, and by trade, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:49.280 he's a telecommunications technician. But before we meet Donnie, I 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.440 would like to strike a deal with you, the listener. 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:57.480 I'll tell you the story if you will keep in mind. 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.800 So all I'm asking you keep in mind that he 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.640 didn't have to tell us this one. He didn't have 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.480 to tell us about one of the worst moments in 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.200 his life. He didn't owe that to me or you. 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.880 He volunteered it. And in a way, he's putting himself 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:17.000 on public trial again. We're going to hear the case 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:21.320 and make a judgment. These events took place over fourteen 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.760 years ago, So our deal is that you just keep 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.799 that in mind. Now we're going to dive right into 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:34.880 the story with Donnie. Where do you think a good 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:36.040 place to start would be. 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.040 Probably about the first time I seen that, dear yeah, 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.479 would have been in two thousand and seven. I was 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.760 playing softball in Fort Leonard Wood and the guy that 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.880 ran the league on Fort Wood's name is John Clapp. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.360 After a ballgame, he hollered at means and I guess 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:56.080 they call it like a bird's nest or whatever. It's 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.280 a tower in between all the fields. He said, come 0:06:58.320 --> 0:06:59.479 up here, I want to show you something. When I 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.000 got up there, that buck was out there feeding. It 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.240 was a big mainframe ten and on its right beam 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:08.600 it had it just looked like a softball. It's a 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.440 big knot, and that's what they called it was softball. 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.680 The ballplayers that year, everybody had eventually seen it. The 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:16.680 deer was always down there by, and it was after dark, 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.960 you know, it was being illuminated by the ballfield lines. 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.360 And after I saw it, my wife and I were 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:27.679 dating at the time. We drove around many nights looking 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.120 for him and seeing him. Seeing him a few times 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.520 that year. He would have probably been closer to a 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:34.280 one hundred and fifty inch deer at that time. 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:42.440 This story begins with almost biblical vibes to me, like 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.360 when King David looked off the balcony and saw Bathsheba 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.520 bathing on the rooftop below. She was off limits married, 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.200 and David knew it that something took seed in David's 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.320 heart and he began to devise a plan to apprehend 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.160 the Contraband This isn't exact exactly the sequence of what 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:02.200 happened with Donnie. 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:03.000 It was a. 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:07.280 Different internal track towards violation, and as it turns out, 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:11.200 there are uncountable circuitous ways that can lead a man 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:15.760 to it. Fort Leonard Wood is a sixty one thousand 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.320 acre military base in central Missouri, near the towns of 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.240 Waynesville and Saint Roberts. It's about an hour northeast of 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:27.120 Springfield and two hours west of Saint Louis. It's open 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.120 to all kinds of hunting for people who have a 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.240 permit and take a training course. However, there are areas 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.440 where you cannot hunt, and this is important to remember. 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.760 Large sections of the base are off limits to hunting, 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.400 and everyone knows this. This is common for military bases 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.320 where the public is allowed to hunt. But what I 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.200 have not told you yet is that Donnie worked on 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.600 the base. He started the base's first archery pro shop, 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.960 owned by the military, designed to service the soldiers and 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.520 their families who wanted to bow hunt. Donnie was an insider, 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.280 and if you're like me, you probably just got your 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.320 justice and Judgment scorecard out and are keeping track of 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:16.280 the data points. And this tidbit is not favorable. When 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.880 you saw this deer, like what what were you thinking? 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:20.240 Were you thinking, I want to. 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.240 Kill us deer? Yeah, and at that time it really wasn't. 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.400 It moved a couple of times. It was close to 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.600 a hunting area. There was a few people hunting him there. 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.560 He was coming out of a legit hunting area and 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.960 I hunted that area. But honestly, when I went to hunting, 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:38.800 I'd say it was probably the tenth person to see 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.400 that deer. So when I went to that area to 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.480 hunt it, there was just looked like the Walmart parking lot. 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.679 You know, anybody see that deer would hunt it. And 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.400 it just took a little That was in the beginning 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.719 of season and that was it for him. So I'm 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.280 sure the pressure or whatever he went to wherever he hides, 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.080 Like what was your mind frame at that time in 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.720 your life? Would you have broken the law before? And 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.199 you would have thought I'd do whatever it takes to 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:08.040 kill that deer. I'm maybe, but he wasn't. I seen 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.080 the deer a couple times after that and probably could 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.920 have done something, but at the time, killing it wrong 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.599 it wasn't what I was trying to do. I'd like 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:20.560 to kill that deer right. Killing him illegally wasn't even 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:22.400 I really didn't consider it. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.720 I'm sitting on a brown cloth couch across from Donnie, 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:31.720 who's in a leather recliner in his comfortable, modest home 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.480 outside of Dixon. The room is full of handsome shoulder 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.640 mounted bucks killed by he and his son, most of 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.800 which are archery kills. I'd shaken this man's hand for 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.400 the first time all of thirty minutes before this conversation. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:51.400 I'm surprised by how comfortable he is telling me this story, 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.240 and by how much it seems like he's telling me 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:59.280 the real story. He isn't justifying his actions, he's not defensive, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.080 and for this, on my checklist, he gets some points 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:08.160 for genuineness. I'm mesmerized by every word of this story, 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.880 literally on the edge of my seat. But I'm also 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.679 looking into his soul, trying to discern if he's telling 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.080 me the truth, and I think he is. I ask 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.800 him for more details. In eight, i'd heard stories of 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:24.559 people seeing him, but I don't. I don't believe I 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.319 ever saw him in O eight. When O nine come 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:32.160 around summer of nine, everybody that hunts out there drives 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:33.800 around of an evening right at dark to see where 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:34.280 the deer are. 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:35.800 I mean, it's just just something you can do. There's 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:37.640 a lot of roads on Fort Wood and you can 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.560 find something to hunt like that and not lighting them 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.400 or anything, but just a dusk. And it's playing ball 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.559 at the time. One evening after ball, I make the 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.360 circle in an Army street. It's a street that connects 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.439 Nebraska and First Street, and after a ball game, one 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.360 evening under a street lights, first time I seen him. 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:58.880 And that'll play into some of this as well, that 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.880 that deer had seen a lot of people and it 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.560 wasn't as wild as as some deer. I'm sure the 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.959 first time I seen him, I was one hundred percent 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:09.800 sure he's two hundred inch deer, which I'd never seen 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.760 a wild deer with two hundred inch and still at 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:14.120 that time wanted to kill this deer. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:19.400 Right, He gets honesty points by telling me the deer 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:23.520 was accustomed to human presence. Often people leave out parts 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.960 of stories that are less flattering, adding in parts that 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.080 make them seem competent. I think I probably do that 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.360 a lot. Donnie didn't have to say that about the deer, 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.640 and the stakes also just got a bunch higher in 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.920 two thousand and nine, when the deer was now believed 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:44.480 to be over two hundred inches. I've seen pictures of 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:48.000 this buck. He's a mainframe ten point over twenty inches 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.800 wide with two dagger like four inch kickers coming off 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.160 the right base. He's got a big flyer off the 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.520 G two, which is the second time, and the cherry 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.320 on top is that he he's got a Grade A 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.599 American classic tenants drop time with a black lump on 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.280 the end. You know what I'm talking about if you 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:13.120 are a whitetail antler officionado. The left antler is a 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.520 typical five point side with a cluster of small drop 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.840 times just below the G two. The deer is a 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:24.040 jaw dropper, and for any serious whitetail hunter, the two 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.439 hundred inch mark is a pinnacle number that I'd guess 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.080 ninety nine percent of hunters will never even see a 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.840 deer that big in the woods much less kill one 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.839 and as a culture, we've been messing around with giving 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.960 cultural value to big antlers for over one hundred and 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.360 fifty years, so we know they make people do crazy things. 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.600 But here's an analogy for the uninformed to describe the situation. 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.439 Everybody sees money all the time that they don't have 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.080 permission to take, like when you see cash and a 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.800 cash register at the store, and hunters see bucks pretty 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.720 often that they don't have permission to take. So here's 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.440 an analogy. The difference between seeing a one hundred and 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.960 twenty five inch eight point, which would be a handsome 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.959 buck anywhere in the country, and seeing a two hundred 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.920 inch buck would be akin to seeing one hundred dollars 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.880 bill on the table, which would be the eight point, 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.440 next to a stack of one hundred thousand dollars cash, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.680 which would be the two hundred incher. It's a big divide, 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.080 But Donnie wasn't planning on taking the one hundred k 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.320 off the table. He planned to earn it fair and square, 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.040 and he had proven that in the previous years. But 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.160 so goes the plans of mice and men. And I 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.520 have a quick question for you. Just think about this 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:51.480 should the size of a buck matter in a poaching case? Secondly, 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.880 a more personal question, would you go easier on a 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.640 poacher that killed a basket rack eight point versus a 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.480 hundred hundred and fifty inch deer? And if you have 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.440 a clear answer, tell me why. Let's get back to 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.520 Donnie though. Here's a description of where the buck lived. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.760 Through the rest of the summer getting into the fall. See him, 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.640 I think, six times, always in the same place, on 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.720 the same street. What that deer done. He lived in 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.680 a little little block of brush behind a dining facility. 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.280 And this deer's in the place you could legally hunting. No, sir, 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.680 I never seen it in a legal hunting area. It 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.160 was one hundred percent no. It was a contonement area. 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.960 There was a running track there, dining facility, people parked 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.560 around there. I mean it was defined. I mean everybody 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.160 that hunts their nose, you cannot kill this. 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.920 So at that time, where you considering hunting it illegally? 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.520 No? At that time, I set cameras where I would 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.120 see deer leave that area going into hunting areas because 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.720 I knew, however he winted those hunting areas, he would 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.480 come back the same way. He was pretty calm deer. 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:56.920 And I don't know if I never did get a 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:58.920 picture of him, never did get a game camera picture 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.000 of you. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.040 At the time, Donnie was twenty six years old and 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.680 he was a solid white tailed bow hunter and an 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:10.040 archery expert. Remember he started the archery shop on the base. 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.640 He'd formulated a solid strategy to hunt this buck legally. However, 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:21.200 an early October evening drive would hijack his plan and 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.160 his character. And I've got a second question for you. 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:30.440 Does premeditated intent matter if the results are the same 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.800 a dead buck or a crime committed, Why does the 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.280 intent matter? Just think about it. But we're going to 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:43.560 go back now to the character hijack. Here's Donnie October 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:48.160 fourth of nine. I'd till through the day I was 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:49.960 allowed to shoot my bow. I could help people shoot, 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:51.400 and I go down the range take my bow and 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:52.720 help sight in their bows and stuff. 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.160 I'd shot my bone. I mean, I was dressed by 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.080 like I am here, in blue jeans and probably I'm 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.080 sure it was cool evening. I'd say, probably a camel hoodie. 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.600 I'd shot my bow a little bit. I was driving 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.280 a white Ford four door truck with a topper on it. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:08.960 I hit Army Streets soon as work was over, and 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:10.280 when I was going to drive down through their see 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.640 if I could see him. And as I'm driving down 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.600 Army Street and it's it's not quite dusk yet, there's 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.000 quite a bit of light. I looked to my left 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.560 and he's standing where I've seen him two or three times. 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:22.959 I thought, good grief. 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:28.520 This good grief moment combined a new trio of circumstances 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.600 that Donnie had yet to confront. He'd seen the buck 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:35.040 multiple times over the last two years and never attempted 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.359 to illegally kill it. However, this was the first time 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.720 he'd seen it. Number one during the archery season, number 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.399 two when he had a bow in the truck, and 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.400 number three it was now a two hundred inch deer 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.680 that was in striking distance standing in the ditch. It 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.480 was a one two three judo kick that knocked him 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.880 out cold. Every encounter up until this point had been 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:06.240 buffered by barriers Donnie was unwilling to cross. However, this 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:11.680 one was new. I think Biblical references are fair game 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.440 here because of the influence of Judeo Christian ideology and 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:20.240 American culture, whether you realize it or not. Early in 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.119 this ancient book, in Genesis chapter four, there's the story 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:28.440 of Cain who killed his brother Abel because of jealousy. 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.600 Prior to the murder, he was warned to watch out 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:36.880 for crouching sin. It reads, then the Lord said to Cain, 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.199 sin is crouching at your door. It desires to have you, 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.280 but you must rule over it. This is a really 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.800 fundamental and foundational aspect of human life that people have 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:51.639 to deal with whatever they want to call it. If 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.040 they want to call it sin evil doing something wrong, 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.760 like we all have this kind of code that we 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.439 live by in our cultures. The Bible it wasn't the 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.119 only book that talked about this, but it really helped 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:08.800 introduce it to civilization. Life is a series of unfolding opportunities, 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.320 often out of our control, but we are in control 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.960 of how we respond to those opportunities. But the age 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.840 old question is how much temptation can a person resist 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:24.439 until they break their declared value system, until they're unable 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.760 to rule over the power of the crouching evil. The 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.560 ancient philosopher Socrates exhorted people to know thyself, which he 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.439 was saying be aware of your limitations, be aware of 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:40.520 your motivations, and make educated adjustments to your life based 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.960 on this knowledge. The universal nature of the cane Able 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:49.080 story is profound because its application isn't just in murder, poaching, 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.800 or bank robbery. It's in the small decisions in our 0:19:52.880 --> 0:20:03.480 lives that no one else sees. Now we're back to 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.240 Donnie in the truck with this bow within striking distance 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:08.520 of a crouched lion. 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.439 So I drived in Nebraska, turned around, and when I 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.479 come back, I'm looking over there. Where he was at 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:16.640 was because he was seventy five to one hundred yards 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.240 off the road and he's nowhere to be seen. I thought, well, 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.800 he spooked and I turned to my left and he 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.280 was right in the road ditch on the north side 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.320 of the army, I mean right there. And that's when 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.400 I put it all together. There's a huge culvert there. 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.320 It's almost a concrete bridge. He wasn't crossing over the highway. 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:36.119 He was walking under it, so as I kind of 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:37.919 hit my brakes and it spooks him a little bit 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:39.840 and he hops down to the timber line. Well, when 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.199 he gets to the timberline, in front of him are 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.200 two really good bucks. It was a massive, huge eight 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.640 point with little bitty brow tines and a really nice ten. 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:50.639 So I pulled down. There's a running track there and 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:52.800 some porta potties. So I pulled down to those porta 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.040 potties and I thought, I thought I could kill it 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.840 deer right there. And like I said, it was just 0:20:58.280 --> 0:20:59.880 just kind of I don't know if you ever when 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:01.439 you was a kid shot at a bird on a 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.439 sitting in a tree or something, just kind of and 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.080 then when you do kill it, you think, oh man, 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.520 that's kind of what I went through there. But I 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.359 knew it was a non hunting area, so I grabbed 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:15.360 my bow and and just jeans and boots, and well 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.919 behind the porta potties up this little rise and there 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.199 was a big old red oak that had died and 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:21.920 fell over. And when I got to that red oak, 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:24.000 I was considering if I should hucker down there or 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.199 climb over it. And as I'm as, I'm contemplating that. 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:28.359 So I mean, at this point, you've made a decision, 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:29.879 You're legally kill this. 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.400 Yeah, And let me ask you this. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:38.879 I mean, I think every human has experienced a moral 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:43.040 dilemma of being given an opportunity that they know is 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.040 wrong and then not taking it. 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:46.040 Yeah, but then. 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:50.880 There's like this this suck, this drawl, something happens that 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:54.280 all of a sudden you cross into a red zone 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:56.320 and it's something flips. 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.720 Yeah, well was at this time, Clay I had I 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:02.359 had I'd had twenty two in my truck multiple times 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.480 from squirrel hunting when I'd seen this deer. You know, 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.960 if I had set out to poach this deer, I mean, 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.439 I could have shot it many times. But when I 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.360 saw that deer for the first time, I said, I've 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.879 got to kill that deer. I mean, he just felt 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.000 like that was almost a rite of passage for people 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:20.919 who think that I was a good quality bow hunters. 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:22.960 I was gonna have to kill this monster deer. 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:31.320 There's some profoundness in Donnie's honest, simple conclusion of his motivation. 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:34.439 He was a twenty six year old man hungry for 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.080 validation from the world around him, and killing a big 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:42.200 deer with his bow was a pathway to gain respect. 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.840 I get it. I remember when the picture of the 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.680 first decent deer that I killed hung on the wall 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.600 at the local bow shop, and I soaked up any 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:56.719 validation that I could get from anywhere. Validation for grand 0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.720 feats are important in a young man's life or a 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:03.800 young woman's life, but when they're stolen, the system is 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.439 cheated and it produces the opposite of what it's supposed to. 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:11.119