WEBVTT - Our Favorite Deadpool & Wolverine Team Ups (ft. Preeti Chhibber) 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:06.160 Warning. Today's episode contains spoilers for Deadpool and Wolverines, various 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.200 comic book appearances and team ups with each other and 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:14.600 with other characters, both in their own titles and guest appearances, 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:33.560 So be warned, be warned to be talking about that stuff. Hello, 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.239 my name is Jasonncepcion. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:37.680 And I'm Rosday Night, and welcome back to X. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:44.000 Ray Visions week long coverage of all things Pool that's 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.800 dead and Wolverine. Wilburne's in that. Don't forget mister Logan. 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.920 We're dropping episodes every single day leading up to the 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.680 release of Deadpool and Wolverine, covering everything from both characters 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:01.480 comics origins, to the long history of their respective film adaptations. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.240 In today's episode, it's a big, chunky omnibus, and we're 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:09.280 joined by Marvel Comics write Pretty Chibba to dive into 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.360 some of our favorite Deadpool and Wolverine team ups and 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.000 face offs in the Marvel Comics canon. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:16.679 Him. 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:20.959 Hey, it's so good to have you on the show. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:26.160 It's awesome. Let's get into it all right. Before we 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:30.600 get started, let's talk about what we think makes a 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:35.840 good Deadpool collab, a good Deadpool story, and a good 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:40.360 Deadpool team up. Pretty Any thoughts, yeah? 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:40.800 Pretty. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.760 I think having an understanding of balance is really important 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:50.080 with Deadpool because Deadpool can so easily He's so loud 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.680 but bastic. There's so many tricks you can use while 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.240 you're writing him that he could so easily overwhelm the narrative. 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.800 So you need to be able to like pull back 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.800 on that, which can be really hard when you're writing 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.960 such a fun character. So I feel like balance is 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.400 really important so both characters get to shine. 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.560 M h, Yeah, I definitely. I think that you're onto 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:16.720 something there. I think also, I am very much of 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.160 the mindset of like, I do love that straight man 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.880 Deadpool kind of combo. I think it really works. I 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.040 think that's why specifically people enjoy Logan and Deadpool, because 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.519 Logan's your cranky guy and he doesn't really you know. 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.160 Especially I think with X Men ninety seven we've really 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:35.960 gotten to see that side of him again, and I 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.520 think that version is what works so well. I also 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:44.200 think the balance is so key because you need Deadpool 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.960 to overwhelm the character in an interpersonal level, but not 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:53.400 overwhelm the reader exactly. So I'm thinking about how, like, 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.720 you know, Deadpool loves Spider Man, and he's just constantly 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:57.880 overwhelming Peter. 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.640 Parker with his crush and with his love and. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.120 And we've kind of seen touches of that in the 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:06.040 trailer where he's overwhelming Wolverine with his need for him 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.520 to be the best hero you've ever had. But you've 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.040 got to keep it so he doesn't just become annoying. 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.560 I think, Jason, what about you. 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.400 No, I think that's exactly right. I feel very much 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:19.880 the same way. Full disclosure, I'm not a huge Deadpool guy. 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:24.160 I have never really taken to his solo titles. But 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.800 Deadpool when that balance is hit and you'll see that 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.359 from my picks today, when you really hit that balance 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.359 with Deadpool, of him working together with other characters, I 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.720 think there's it's kind of magical. And to me, what 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:43.760 makes Deadpool fun but also difficult to balance is, you know, 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.600 in comics, stakes are always a problem. You're talking about 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:54.160 the media. Everybody comes back, nobody ever comes back right, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:58.600 everybody does right, and those that problem is exacerbated with 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.720 a character like Deadpool who cannot die seemingly no matter 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:03.480 what you do, and see that in the movies. But 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.640 I think What's interesting is the steaks with Deadpool and 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.320 with any satire are actually like personal to whoever you know, 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.280 whoever is reading or watching, and the stakes are this 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.200 because you know, Deadpool poses the question. The satire of 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.640 Deadpool poses the question of how dumb are you willing 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.280 to admit that comics are and still like them and 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:27.800 still like them? And the steaks are what if Deadpool 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.159 makes you feel like this is this entire exercise is 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.600 actually too dumb and you walk away? So you've got 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.720 to the balance there is can I make fun of 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.400 the thing I love and still love it? And when 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.680 Deadpool hits that balance, when the creators hit that balance, 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.440 it's particularly in a team context, it's really it's really 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.560 really cool. So I can't wait to talk about some 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.800 of our favorite team ups. Who wants to start? Who 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:54.839 wants to start throwing at a favorite deadpook? 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.440 Pretty? Do you have a favorite one to start with? 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:58.520 I do, and it's on. 0:04:58.839 --> 0:04:59.480 You know, it's funny. 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.000 When I was thinking about this, obviously in the lead 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.880 up to this recording, and the first one that came 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.760 to mind is not sort of your stereotypical funny like 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:13.000 viral Deadpool team up. It was Uncanny X Force. The 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:18.000 remember it's one of my favorite books. It's so dark, 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.280 but that I think is a testament to Deadpool as 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.360 a character who can't exist in that space as well 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.080 and be a little bit more on the darker, like 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:29.359 horror side of things. 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:30.120 Like I was. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.800 Remembering, I was like that scene where he's like feeding archangel, 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.000 like leaning over him, and I guess we can spoil her, 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:38.880 but he's like, you know, trying to help him survive 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:42.160 or like whatever it is, and it's horrific, but it's 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:46.159 still Deadpool, so there is this like sort of funny 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.599 level to it. It's extremely unsavory, we'll say. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:55.080 Test Yes, I think that's a great pick because also, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.400 like you know, the the right era of that comic 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.520 is someone who in the past. You know, I've critique 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.680 some of his other comics, but I do have to say, 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.920 when I was revisiting this stuff, I do think that's 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.880 one of the best X Men titles that we've ever gotten. 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:14.480 It's it's so good, it's so interesting. 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:19.000 It's so weird. It's so weird, weird in a. 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.640 Way that it feels like again, like some of the 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.560 best of this stuff, it's weird in a way that 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.039 feels in conversation with like what you talk about the 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.880 comic book shop, like what would happen in these scenarios, 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:37.359 Like what's the worst, possible, creepiest, weirdest version of like 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.039 an ex team and what would happen on it? And 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.240 I just think this is like not to hype him 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.400 up too much, but I mean it is almost as 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.000 good as like a Grant Morrison New. 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.240 X Men, Like I think it is that. I think 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:51.840 it has that. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.520 Much quality and I think that's a really great pick. 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.080 And I love that pic because I also feel like 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.320 it's if you read that, like our disc what is 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.719 really active. If people listen to this and they go 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:04.560 out and read that, it's going to be such a 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:08.919 different experience from all the other books that we recommend 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:09.560 to you today. 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.440 Let's start off strong, Yeah, Rosie won you go next? 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.320 Okay, So I'm going to go for if you like 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.760 Deadpool in the movies and you're like this guy, like 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.240 when did he really start being like that? Because it's 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.280 definitely not from like his first appearance, you know, in 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:28.040 like in your kind of your New Mutants. 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.520 Name, He's supposed to be like cool at first, he 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:31.760 was definitely supposed. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.520 To be cool so boring though, who wants that? 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.080 One of my favorite things that Aaron, our super producer, 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.480 picked out. So he was created by you know, Fabian 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:45.720 Ncenza and Rob Leifeld, in which I'm sure Rob would 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:47.320 hate it if he had me put it that way round, 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:48.920 but sorry, And. 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:51.920 It's he was basically. 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.200 Rob's version of like he wanted to do like Spider Man, 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.280 but with guns and swords, yes, you know, And it's like, 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.240 I think that that is really what he was in 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.160 those early days. But I think if you want to 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.640 read a Deadpool as you know him now, I really 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:12.000 think it's Daniel Way's Deadpool run with like Steve Dylon legendary, 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:16.040 Paca Medina legendary or not. That is where he gets 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.600 his third voice, which is basically kind of like his 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.480 Devil on his shoulder voice, and they argue with each 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:23.880 other and they talk to each other and it's constantly 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.480 breaking the fourth wall and it's totally silly, and honestly, 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:29.200 to a lot of people who haven't read a lot 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.200 of Deadpool comics, this one doesn't necessarily have that balance. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:33.920 Like by the end of reading this, you might be 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.040 like Deadpool is so annoying, but. 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.840 It does feature Wolverine. There were Wolverine. 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:44.000 Issues that the collections pull in. You get to see 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:49.160 that kind of original close to the first time. But 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:51.719 I'll recommend that one later. But I just think this 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.760 is a really important Deadpool text. Like when I used 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:56.360 to work in the comic book shop, this was the 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.280 one where when people came in and they said, I 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.120 want to read Deadpool, I love the video game, or 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.760 I'm really excited for the movie. This was always the 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.959 one where I'd say, I think this is where Deadpool 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.960 gains his his voice. 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:11.560 As we know him now. 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.559 Like when you read these comics, it feels like this 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.680 is what Ryan Reynolds is riffing on, and we do 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.120 get some good Wolverine Deadpool moments in that too. 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.560 Yeah, that's actually this was on my list as well, 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.160 specifically the X Men, like three. I think it's three 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.920 issues run somewhere in the middle there, because you know 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.120 we're saying earlier that Wolverine is often the straight man, 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.800 but I think he what's so great about the partnership 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.280 between Deadpool and Wolverine is he can sort of like 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.160 sync to Deadpool's level because it's Wolverine, right and in 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.920 this book, I love it because Cyclops is so angry, 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.520 so angry, and I love when Cyclops is angry and 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.959 like Wolverine just sort of being there as the voice 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.800 of like, ah, man, we gotta it's Deadpool, like relaxed, 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.960 we just got to do it. It's so wonderful. 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.160 I also guess, like something we didn't really talk about is, 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.240 you know, these are two characters who are immortal and 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.560 kind of different or almost near immortal in kind of 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.280 different ways. So I do think I like that note 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.640 that you say about Wolverine can lower himself to dead 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.160 pull at that point, and I think. 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:18.760 Sometimes it's probably because he's just bored of. 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.360 Being alive for so long, so he's probably actually like 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.000 really glad that there's someone who can just make a 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.960 dick joke or like do something stupid, like I think 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.040 Logan's probably been very bored of being the sensible one. 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:34.160 I completely agree. And there's also like a wonderful any 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:38.559 good Wolverine and Deadpool story has like a Tom and 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:46.080 Jury feel to it. Yes, and this story absolutely this 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.880 is very looney, chopping off each other's like arms instead 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:53.040 of stabbing each other all the time, and like decapitating 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.600 each other, like shoving their swords slash claws to each 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.040 other's brains. 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:01.880 Like and it feels very like an influence of what 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.200 we've seen on the trailers so far, where like the 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.439 two of them are just for Wolverine doesn't want to 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:09.200 team up with him, so he's just like, I'm just 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:13.600 gonna like put my clawes through you, like Tea was like, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.480 give me a hand, and he's just like stabs him 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:16.040 in the side. 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.360 So I think you're right, we're channeling. 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:33.760 That Looney Tunes energy for sure. Jason, what about you? 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.160 Well, first, I want to shout out on Kenny X Force, 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.520 which I absolutely adored when it was out. I think 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:49.280 the lineup Wolverine, Archangel, Deadpool, Santomex six, it's so so weird. 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.840 It was just delightful to see Phantom X get like 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.199 a starring role, like he's back in the mix. Incredible, 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.480 one of the weirdest characters ever invented. So I just 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:08.440 wonder so much, so wonderful family drama, and I love 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:12.120 that era. I love the Dad era of Wolverine has 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:16.280 been really fun to explore. I'm going to start with again, Uh, 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.679 you know, my bias is towards Deadpool in a kind 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.800 of larger team context. So I'm going to go with 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.320 the Messiah War crossover kind of referenced in Deadpool too. 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.440 And you hear Cable talk about Hope Hope being Hope 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.880 Summers the mutant Messiah, and in this story, Deadpool and 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.280 X Force and Cable travel to the future to try 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.480 and save Hope Summers, and it also acts as a 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:43.199 clever device to get Hope Summers aged up to the 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.679 to her early adulthood so she could actually start being 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:49.760 in fights and not be a little kid anymore. But 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:55.200 it has spoiler one of my favorite Deadpool stunts, which 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.960 is Deadpool trapped in a freezer for eight hundred years. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:02.000 So everybody has time trivel devices allows them to jump 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.240 to the future, right, but they only have a limited 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.440 number of them, so only some of them can jump 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.960 to the future. So Deadpool is like, well, I'll just wait. 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:19.200 He just sits there hundred years eating himself, like eating 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.520 and uh, and by the time they get him out, 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.880 he has gone fully insane, which is only marginally more 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.920 insane than than he already And it's just one of 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:36.160 my favorite little Deadpool bits. So that's I'll start with 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:36.520 that one. 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:37.800 That's really good stuff. 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.440 Pretty would you like to pick another one? Yeah? 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.000 So another one that I really love because I am 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.640 also a sucker for like bringing the supernatural into a 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.840 partnership is Wolverine Annual. I wrote this down Wolverine Annual 0:13:51.040 --> 0:14:00.320 number one. Yeah, like another one where Wolverine is sort 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.600 of like at Deadpool's level. I just love it because 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.560 there's this great likely you know, the premises Deadpool's been 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.480 hired to like assassinate this writer. 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:10.600 Yeah, it's like it's like an ass. 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.240 Just like an author. Wolverine's at the author signing to 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:20.320 get a book signed quote unquote for Kitty, and Deadpool's 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.080 hired to assassinate. It's absurd, and the author turns out 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:25.960 to be a were wolf and it's this whole thing, 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.160 but it's Wolverine's like there's something weird and going on, 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.800 and he just sort of like interrupts the entire thing 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.280 and they get they've been pulled into like were wolf 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:35.600 politics hijinks. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.040 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so good. 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.640 And it's like the funniest thing is this is like 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.680 really the last bastion of like the extreme nineties, Like 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.240 the Kava is so extreme, it's like everyone has like 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.640 fifty muscles on top of muscles. 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.480 And even though it is literally. 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.600 Most notable because Mark on Drinc home Wall McDaniel decided 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.359 they were going to do were. 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.000 Wolves, the it was just like grudge match with. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:03.680 Nah. 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.000 It's like no, it's like an author signing drama that 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.080 seems like a well of But this does lead to 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.720 a question that I wanted to ask you guys, which 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.880 is like, what is it about those. 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:20.360 Kind of extreme nineties characters and that extreme era and 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:21.200 the creators? 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.600 Like why does it still resonate with us? 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.280 I mean, we're still here, Robert Eifelt still an active creator, 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.640 Jim Lee obviously like runs DC. You know, what is 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.720 it about that era that was so kind of powerful 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.680 and still gets us coming back to these stories? 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.800 You know? For me, I think it was there was 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.720 a level of bomb bast for the for you know, 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:49.840 the nineties has been like retroactively criticized somewhat fairly, I 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.360 think for being like the tasteless version of comics, you know, 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:58.920 like oversize everything, oversized guns, fifty oversized kitanas, like all 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.080 that stuff. But I think the thing that comes through 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.040 is there was like an attitude and a no holds 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:11.560 barred kind of safeties off of like your creative imagination 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:17.200 kind of energy that has in the more corporate version 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.120 of Big two comics is hard to find. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:21.480 You know. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:26.920 It just seemed like really fun and Liefeld and Ncenza 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:31.160 like became rock stars off and many others became like 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:35.280 rock stars off of the energy they brought to the page. 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.360 And that feels like an era that for all of 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.880 its warts and shortcomings. You know, a lot of those 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:46.720 creators Liefeld included, who have became stars, would later say 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.680 decide that they needed to break away from the industry 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.720 as it existed in order to more adequately feel like 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.880 they were compensated for the things they're creating. That said, 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.640 that creative energy in retrospect feels kind of special, Like 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:06.119 you don't see that kind of just pure rough imagination 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.560 energy just like exploding off the page as much in 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.439 today's here, like it felt really exciting to open a 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.280 life felt comic in like nineteen ninety two, Like it 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.560 was like, whoa, I've different? What is this? This is 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.520 not following any of the rules, yes I have, you know, 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.640 like any of the artistic rules, any of the rules 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.720 about how you drug characters, any natomy rule, any anatomy rules. 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.520 But that felt really exciting, and I and and I 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.080 think there's a nostalgia for that. Pretty what do you think. 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.720 I would push back a little bit. Not everything in 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.520 the nineties worked for me. I think there is like 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.720 when you have the sort of like you can see 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.840 the joy someone is bringing to something and the excitement 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.960 in getting to do something weird and like you said, 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.000 bumbastic and all these things. I think you see actually 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.040 a lot of that, at least I'll speak from Marvels, 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.760 like from a Marvel perspective on Marvel Unlimited. 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:01.240 There a lot of that's true. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:02.960 You're doing really. 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.840 Fun and interesting things in sort of the webtoon format 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.439 that may not like get to the page, to the 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.679 printed page. So there is some of that. It's there's 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.160 so much more now also. 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:17.359 To purst through. 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.439 Then you know, it's just sort of exploded in terms 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:25.360 of the number of stories being told. So I think 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:30.200 that there's so much fun in what in a lot 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:31.960 of the books we got in the nineties that you 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.240 can still find in books happening today if you look 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.080 for it. And I think that's the key. 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.199 I actually think you've touched on something really interesting here, 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.439 because something that we don't really talk about, right is like, 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.680 this is the nineties the peak audience for comics, right 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.560 that are still seen as like teenagers now in that 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.520 era it's teenage boys, right, That's how they perceive it. 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.040 But we all know like other people love those comics too. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.080 But I'm thinking about that because pre what you're making, 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.040 the point off that I think actually connects these two 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.480 things is that in ya comics now, as we would 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:05.200 call them. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.000 That's where a lot of that energy is. 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:11.520 Whether it's unlimited, whether it's like you know, some cool, 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.760 amazing cartoonists like an Ingo zi Ukazu who he had 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:18.480 on recently, like that, when comics are tailored to a 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.479 teenage audience, there's almost like or a younger reader's audience. 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:23.760 There's like a freedom there that you don't have to 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.840 get as core cap in. And back then it wasn't 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.000 as specific. They weren't like, oh, they're drawing these comics. 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:34.480 But lest we not forget Rob liffeld I think was 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.719 like nineteen when he started drawing these comics. 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.840 You know, they actually were teenagers. Jim Lee was so young. 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.000 There's that very famous video that you can watch on 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.120 YouTube of Jim and Rob and they're with stan Lee 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.480 on stan Lee's kind of Creators, you know, little chat 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.840 show that he would do, and they're kind of designing 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.240 characters and you can just see that these are young people, 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:56.639 like brimming with their energy. 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:58.080 So I think that's a really. 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.880 Good way of looking at it. Like when comics, there's 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.960 something about making comics for young people that stopped people 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:07.520 being as worried about being. 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:08.200 Like so precise. 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:10.679 You know, I think a lot about Todd McFarland, who 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:15.000 I love, who Jimley is probably my top nineties like 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.240 comics dad, who I love, but like Todd is a 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:18.080 very close second. 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.359 But I always think about the capes. 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.520 Like Todd would draw these ridiculous takes, right, yeah, that 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.040 were just like no one would ever say. 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:27.880 That is how a cape behaves. 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:29.080 Move like that. 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:30.960 It doesn't move like that, but it doesn't matter because 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.280 when you're a kid, you're like, that is the coolest 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.400 cape I've read the scene. That's like the coolest thing 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.080 I've ever seen. And I think that, you know what, 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:43.640 as comics has grown and become like an academic study, 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:45.600 you know, the sixties was the first time we had 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.359 comics in college, but since then it's really now you 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.960 can study comics most places you have like comics winning 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.720 the Pulitzer Prize or being nominated for it. I think 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:59.080 that what these comics remind me of is like the 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.359 fun that you're allowed to have with them when it 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.920 doesn't have to be like like you said, I think 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.359 a lot about New Mutants ninety eight, because that was 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.280 a comic where like in they reprinted it when I 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:12.840 was working at the comic bookshop and everyone. 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.000 Was like, oh, Rob Eifeld, like he's so rubbish. 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.600 She can't draw shoes or whatever, he can't draw feet, 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.440 And I remember like opening the book and being like, no, 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.600 I'm sorry, this is like abstract like genius, Like if 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.480 you look at this, this is actually a really exciting, cool, 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.800 strange book that is so much more than just like 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.359 what somebody who's doing like an anatomy YouTube video and 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.320 saying like this is wrong and kind of there's an 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.520 energy there. I think that is is kind of like 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.679 so powerful. But I'm very glad you picked the Wolverine 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:50.840 Annual because anything with wear wolves I'm a big fan of. 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:51.280 Jason. 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.920 Yeah, that's a good come on, Jason's an, what's another 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:54.520 one of yours? 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:56.320