WEBVTT - Where Did Tech's Magic Go? feat. Alex Cranz and Michael Fisher 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:03.600 Al Zome Media. 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.880 Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed Zittron, 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:22.680 otherwise known today as Woke Joe Rogan. Good. We are 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.239 live kind of from the iHeartRadio studios in New York. Today. 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.280 I am joyed by mister Mobile himself, Michael Fisher, and 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.320 of course Alex Krantz from The Verge. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.680 Thank you for coming, thanks for having to be here, 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:34.599 Thanks for having us. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.320 So today is about where the magic's gone in tech. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:40.960 Got two great tech journalists with me and I myself 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.800 have done some writing on tech, I guess and the 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:45.600 Big Thing. And this kind of started actually from a 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:48.280 conversation between you and me, Michael, where it was about 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.040 kind of like what are we even looking at in 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.120 tech anymore? Why things aren't fun? Like what like it 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.600 feels like we've stopped getting the most fun thing I 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:58.320 have found is I'm actually gonna pull it out in 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.080 my pocket and there's no video, so you're never gonna know. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.800 Like this anchor charge, it's like thirty bugs. I mean, 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.280 that's a sick no. Like battery packs are cool, but 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.160 otherwise everything that comes out that's meant to be exciting, 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.440 like the Humane pin and the Rabbit are one which 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:14.720 obviously we're bad from the beginning. Sorry anyone who thought otherwise, 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.640 you were wrong, And like the Daylight tablet, which will 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:20.880 get to of course, these things just have turned out 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.240 to be just not even fun, not you can be 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.840 kind of shitty, but fun, like there's something you can 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:28.920 look at. Even some of the great tech failures, like 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.880 that weird frame that you could upload things to from 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:33.920 like twenty to fifteen, like a few of these weird 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.920 Indiegogo things, there was a cute weirdness to it, but 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.160 now it's just almost just nothing. 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:42.240 There's a lot of reasons for that. 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:42.920 There are. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:44.440 Yeah, I feel like there are like a lot of 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.840 compounding problems that have like that have deposited us here today. 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:49.440 But I will say that I think that there are 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.360 some of those examples you gave are still could have 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:55.760 been fun. I think I think Rabbit is still trying 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.160 to like salvage the situation and make it, say any work. 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:00.960 But I mean, and I think you know, it took 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.520 it took a giant swing, which was this this thing 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.800 that we've learned I think you shouldn't do at this point, 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.320 which is try to replace the smartphone call the smartphone 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.120 the enemy and say we're going to replace it with 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.760 this wearable thing. And when you deliver a product that's 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.000 so undercooked, I think that's the problem, Like when I 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:19.400 undercook can't even get there. 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.000 And I think also just everybody's in this big quest 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.880 to beat the smartphone, right, Like everybody wants to make 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:26.519 the next smartphone so they can make all the money 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:31.000 the way Apple did, and what is it? And so 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.320 they're all like, throw it at the wall? Is this it? 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:33.959 Yeah? 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.320 Even like you, I mean, I think you're right when 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:39.880 you say, like the rabbit and you look at these 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.240 AI devices and stuff where there feels like there's sort 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.760 of a mus cynicism. Yeah, to these products where you're like, oh, 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:47.520 you're just out here to make money. There's not like 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.959 something fun and exciting here. Like the Daylight Computer is 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.160 a good example. They're like, yeah, we're going to you know, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:54.359 make computing black and. 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.200 White, just just for the listeners. You might not know 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:57.400 about it. Can you describe the day loge? 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:58.360 Yeah, the Daylight Computer. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.520 You just reviewed it, right, Yeah, I just came off 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.200 the back of it. Yeah. It's like I think I 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.600 called it an ordinary Android tablet with an extraordinary display, 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.880 because the special thing about it is the display. And 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.640 David Pierce said, you know, yeah, like he thinks, uh, 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:15.280 this is this is a display company. This isn't necessarily 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:16.079 a consumer product. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:16.840 But what is it though? 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:21.040 It's like an LCD display that only does black and white. 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.200 Correct, And the special thing is that it has a 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.160 fast refresh rate that makes it very smooth. So when 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.600 you're manipulating it, it's like using a black It's like 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.560 using an iPad from the Fallout world, yeah right, where 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.680 it's also is Yeah. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.480 It's kind of like using an e ink Android tablet 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.720 if the e ink could go fast, right. 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.280 That's why I was excited about it. So what's bad 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:41.720 about it? 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.200 I mean the problem for me, fundamentally, I've used a 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.640 lot of Android e Ink tablets. I'm a nerd about 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.520 these things, and fundamentally the problem is they're built for 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.360 black and white, which is cool. The Internet isn't. Oh 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.280 so you're like, Okay, I'm going to download this app, 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:57.120 I can't see any of the buttons. 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.960 Cool, So they just did not prepare for people use 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:00.480 the device. 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.400 You can like, I mean. 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.360 That's true of the of those e readers. No, that 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.040 that is true, but I think daylight. Like to their credit, 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.880 they have come out and said, look, we don't want color. 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.080 You know, it's this very granola very like if you 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:13.960 watch the coverage of the. 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.360 Yeah, I've seen I've seen the Instagram ads. 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:18.760 Yeah, yeah, and like that is their pitch, that is 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.640 their whole thing is like, your screen is too colorful 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.440 and too addictive, and you should you should be able 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:28.719 to use your tablet outside in in daylight, and it 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:30.520 should function as you expect. You should be able to 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:32.080 do whatever you want. But at the end of the day, 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.359 ideally you're not, as you know, drawn into this vortex 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.440 of of of TikTok end list feeds because you know, 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.159 you don't want to watch YouTube on it. You do 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:43.200 someone the reading delivery, right, which which is a whole 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:44.840 industry now, isn't it right? 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.480 Like the light phone is another example where people are 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.880 just like, what if we took all the cool capabilities 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.920 of your phone and then like turned off a bunch 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:54.120 of it. 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.600 Yeah, I've seen the ads for that, that weird phone 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.039 where it's like, oh, we we block out all the 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.279 things you use your phone for, so the thing that 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.840 you wouldn't use your phone. It's just very confusing, and 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.800 I love posting. I love looking at my phone ninety 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:09.200 two hours a way. 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.480 You are an online. 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.440 I will die if I don't go online. But also 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.880 it doesn't feel like any of these companies. Same thing 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.080 with Rabbit, same thing with Daylight. It doesn't feel like 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.919 they've actually talked to a person, like an actual person, 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.800 like a normal person, someone who uses Facebook and Instagram 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.000 to talk to their friends or get a I spam 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.280 and someone who has like a regular job, someone who 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.520 isn't in tech at all, and just said what do 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.920 you think? And then when that person said, I don't know, 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.520 why do I have this? What do I do? They 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.640 should have gone, oh shit, I shouldn't have released it. 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:46.880 But it doesn't. It doesn't feel what Rabbit I think 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:48.719 is a separate thing because I think they're fully cynical. 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.240 I think that they just. 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.560 Don't give a shit. It has to be held out separately. 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.480 Out Daylight. It almost feels like they just focus the 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.800 simple people who chose to Well, but you were you 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.400 said there was there was something cynical about it, So yeah. 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.360 I mean I think for me, like I said, I've 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.240 used a lot of similar tablets to this. So when 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.640 they reached out and were like, hey, we have this device. 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.520 It's it's electronic paper. And they're very careful of saying 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.720 electronic paper, not eat ink, because that's like an actual 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.400 branded thing and eat ink will descend from the heavens 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.560 to just slap you down if you use it inappropriately. 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.160 And they said they're eat ink, and they they said 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.800 they were electronic paper, really cool refresh rate, and they 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.279 wanted to like do this whole daylight thing and the 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:31.960 warm light stuff, and I thought all of it. I 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.479 think the warm light stuff is very unproven science. That 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.599 is just what is where It's like, the idea is 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:40.560 if you look at an orange light before you go 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.760 to bed, that'll make you sleepy. Blue light wakes you 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.000 up and makes you just wasn't the case. 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.240 Yeah, that was bad timing for daylight for sure because 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.240 required came out with that thing. It's like, yeah, like, 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.960 all these studies are not conclusive and also some new 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.720 ones have proven very cool. Yeah, It's just. 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.839 Like and so that's also right, it's eight hundred dollars. 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.000 That's the problem for me. So here's the thing I 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.400 don't think the CEO is I had some time to 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.040 talk to the CEO and I in a vacuum in absentia. 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:10.760 I kind of was like, this guy's got to be 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:12.800 a Charlatan, right, he's got to be gone for a 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:13.360 cash grab. 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:14.360 What he is? 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.560 What my takeaway was is that no, he's he's a 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:20.000 he's a display nerd who really cares about making this 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:21.000 particular kind. 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:21.440 Of display tex. 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.440 He looks and the display is cool, and they like, 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.760 they didn't take an off the shelf component from Sharp, 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.000 which I also thought, and stuff it into a white 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:29.840 label Android tablet, which is what I thought they did. 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:36.600 Like this is that it's Android, but the hardware is 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:37.400 they built? 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.280 But did they make an effort with the software? 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.600 Yeah? The thing is that the devices they see that 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.640 you know, it's it's early. And this is the thing 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.480 we complain about with almost every product where it's like, yeah, 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.400 well this is just Niagara Lundren top of Android. But 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.880 we have all these ideas. I'm like, great delivery ideas 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:57.040 before I have a press like, aren't you It's very frustrating. 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.400 I wish I could do that with the bank. Yeah, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.040 I've got the money this month, However, right I will 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.840 one day and I'll have lots of it. Well, I 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:08.600 mean that's how I'm not sure. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.560 That's it called a credit card. And then the understanding is, okay, 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:14.920 you have to pay extra because you borrowed it. Whereas 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.520 these companies are like, hey, give us your money. We're 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:19.920 gonna give you a product. It's not going to be 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.360 a good product, but if you just wait, and I'm like, no, 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:26.200 you can pay me bad product, pay me to wait, 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:28.160 pay me to wait, right, Yeah. 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:29.880 I think the uncertain thing for me is like, it's 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.080 the price. The thing that for Daylight, if Daylight was 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.320 down at at you know, two hundred and three hundred bucks, 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:36.360 three hundred four hundred, put that in a premium and 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.360 I'm like, look, okay, it's an intentional product for a 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.280 very specific market and and that's that's great. So I 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:42.800 hit them on that a lot. I was like, you've 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.480 got to make me understand why this is seven hundred 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.679 and twenty nine dollars and to hear them tell it, 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:49.640 it's the work that went into the display, plus the 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.240 tiny you know, minimum water quantities they have to they 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:53.640 have to hit. 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:55.640 So it's like so it's basically, bitch, you gotta eat. 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.440 No. No, it's like to make it, maybe gonna make 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:00.520 a big margin on each tablet. That's the thing they're 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:02.480 like they are No, I assume that at least with 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:03.320 that from the factory. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:05.600 They just put in a lot of effort. And these 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.640 things are much more expensive to make than they have, 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:08.240 which one. 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.319 I can see that side of it now, Like I'm 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.240 on clicked, like I've gotten some experience with that, and 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:13.760 I'm like, okay, I get it. I don't know if 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.719 it's true. I'm not. I don't know enough to know. No, 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.880 eight hundred dollars, Yeah, that's right. Yeah, today the click 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.560 i phone is now a thousand dollars accessory. 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.120 Listeners at home. So Michael is using this case on 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.600 his on his iPhone. It's called a click size. It 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.720 is clicks for iPhone phone and this allows you to 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.000 type with your with your figure a nice click. 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:36.520 To it, got a little keyboard. 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:37.400 What does that cost? 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.240 This is one twenty nine or excuse me, one thirty 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.680 nine or one like it? I do like it. And 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.120 I'm not just saying that because I am I so founder. 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:46.040 I'm very biased. 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:50.400 You can't trust me, God damn it. So the thing 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.400 is with something like that is it actually feels useful 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.760 because people type stuff on their phone. Sometimes I'm just 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:59.439 like fucking around with that. Actually that's the word thing, 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:02.240 it's they feel like less fun things to fuck around 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.000 with these days, and that's something even like CS for 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.520 years has been like this. Everything. I'm sure next year 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.600 is just gonna be all AI again, but even the 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.400 years before it felt like they were less fun things. 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:20.400 There's the kind of exterior ring of security camera, toilet 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.600 light and dildo companies or from China, and they're raasally 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:28.280 they're called like the Shengzong Chang zong Dong romance company 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.840 and they sell eleven different products, many batteries, and they're 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.160 all the very nice people. Then you've got like the 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.440 cat litter company that always turns up. You've got the 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:38.800 Wi Fi grail company that always turns in, that one 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.400 folding machine, the one folding machine that will never launch. 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.920 But even then the folding machine are kind of like that. 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.560 It's like a folksy dumb product that will never launch. 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.719 But otherwise it's like where's the magic, Like when was 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:51.440 the last time we had something fun? 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.439 Even I mean, i CES is a weird one because 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.520 it is so I think most of the people coming 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.280 there are coming to sell things in American markets, right, 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.320 and if you don't need that, if you sell online, 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.800 you don't necessarily need to go to cees and have 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.000 that big presence. Because you don't. You can just sell 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:09.960 directly to the consumer. You can just skip it. And 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:11.560 we see that with stuff like like the stuff I'm 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.400 really into right now is I in Ao I think 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.560 is how you say it, which is like a gaming console. 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.720 It looks like a giant sidekick, right, yeah. 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.080 About one. It's called the I in Ao. It's a 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.920 y A n eo. I'm absolutely malacring the name A 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:31.640 y A n eo. The flip ds and this thing 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.720 is the dumbest, most fun thing I've used in a while. 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.480 It's like a steam Deck. But if the steam Deck 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.680 ran on Windows and therefore sucked. 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:42.800 Two screens, why do you enjoy it? 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.800 I think I like it because it's different. It's doing 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.880 something new, and there's like like, Okay, the software is garbage, 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.040 but that's kind of their fault because it's hard to 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.160 do software, and like you shouldn't launch things with garbage software. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.280 Steam Deck it's fine, but it's also cool because like 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.599 there's like it's just got a good display. There's like 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.920 a really good thought behind it, and it's like, you 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:06.840 know what, there's gonna be people who really really like 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:08.120 this thing and are going to have fun with it, 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:10.320 and it's mainly gonna be nerds who want to play 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.120 Nintendo DS ROMs. Yeah, and I'm like, yes, cool, I want. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.000 That feels like the first weird thing I've heard of 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:18.720 in it while other than like the Rabbit. 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.320 Yeah, And I think the ones that become a success 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.640 are like almost unavoidably not as weird. Like the thing 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.120 that jumps to my mind was, what's the last time 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.080 I was really impressed by something that I kept after 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:29.959 the review period or bought after the review period. It 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.760 was the Meta ray bands. It's like, wow, oh my god. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:35.960 They stuff really good speakers yeah, and a really and 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.480 a pretty good camera into sunglasses and a bunch of 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.480 AI stuff that you really shouldn't talk about, but yeah, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.720 it's like it's it's a really great accessory I've heard good. 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.679 Thing because they just they just work like on the 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.680 train a lot, yeah, and it just sounds good and 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:52.680 like everybody in the train car gets to listen to 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.000 my music with me. But then I sound really good 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.280 on phone call, so I don't. 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.400 Care how you can use some vocals. Yeah, so that's 0:12:58.480 --> 0:12:59.440 vergin on useful. 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.240 It is absolutely extremely useful. Except for Meta. 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:03.960 They make that. 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.560 They made it because they have like Meta has this 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:09.880 big vision for AR and VR, right, so they have 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.559 they have the whole the quest and all of that junk, 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:15.400 and then they were like, well, we need to do 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.719 AR stuff and we need to start normalizing what AR 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:19.080 is going to look like. So we're going to start with. 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.480 These glasses so you can't see anything in them, you can't. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.360 Know and so it's all audio. Bos was doing this 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.880 a couple of years ago. There's a few people who 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:29.440 have done this, and it's like, you know, when BOS 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.400 did it was a stupid concept and even the first 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.800 set of ray bands were really stupid. And then this 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.439 time the quality was just good enough where you're like, okay, 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.040 I get it now. How much of those they're like 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:39.960 two fifty or something? 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:41.960 Oh god, yeah, between two and three hundred and something. 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.280 They're fairly. It's one of those things where you're like, 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.040 I just got paid, I don't got any bills, do 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:48.520 anytime soon, Let's do. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.720 This, And they actually accomplished something that like a lot 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.040 of these AI companies that we've touched on earlier, have 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:54.880 tried to do and sort of failed to do, which 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:56.920 is get you out of your phone. So for me, 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.200 I don't know. Well, I'm a stupid influencer videot like 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.560 thirty percent of the time it's just bad. But like 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.959 I'm firing up the camera, right, That's why I got 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.680 my phone out, just to use the camera for something. Yeah, 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.320 and when you have a camera built into your glasses, 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:10.680 you can just literally hit a button on it. 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:12.480 And how the lens that you're looking at, well the 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.440 human and I is thirty five millimere right. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:15.559 Yeah, I have no I don't know what. I don't 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.640 remember what the spect what the perspective is. 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.280 Like, it's weird because it's off because. 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.520 Of New York Times. He does lovely videos of him 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.560 cooking using them. Oh Tony, he's got his berman's mount 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.360 and dog. But Bruno love Yeah, and he'll be like 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.680 talking to Bruno and like making stuff. He's got his name. 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.720 That's fun. I actually really enjoy that stuff. It feels 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.080 bad the meta is doing it though, like the idea, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.880 but also how it feels also weird that meta made 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:45.360 something good. I'm just very confused because all right. The 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.280 VR stuff with Quest, I know we're like ment to 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:52.080 like most people like, oh Quest is good. It isn't good. 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:56.520 I'm sorry. I'm very sorry. Casey, my very close friend, 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.280 Casey's gonna hear it's gonna get pissed off and get 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:04.040 a signal message the Quest's fine. But even the new one, 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.240 I still get sick. Yeah, I still feel weird. It 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.280 still doesn't go on my face. 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.720 Right. That's why they did the glasses is because they 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:12.880 know there's there's. 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.920 Kind of glasses. 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.520 I'm coming back to the glasses because they like they 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.280 did they did these headsets and everybody was like, oh wait, 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.720 this is not the future for AR and VR. People 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.680 look stupid. Like I saw my nephew come Like one day, 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:28.720 I went over and I'm visiting. I'm saying hi to everybody. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:29.960 I'm like, oh, where is he And they're like, oh, 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:31.520 he's upstairs. And I go upstairs and there's just a 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.400 little kid all alone in a room, like wagging the 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.840 sticks around. And that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.880 Like I wanted to give like I wanted to give 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.080 him a wedgie, right, And I'm like, that's that's a 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.320 bad response. For an aunt, just like put my hand 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.400 in my pocket and walk away. And and but that's 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:49.960 the way it is for everybody. And so they're like, Okay, 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:51.840 we got to do these glasses because if we do 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:56.240 these glasses, then that won't be as dumb and stupid looking. 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.440 And I should just give a shout out to a 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.080 company that not a lot of people remember, and I 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.320 bet you do, but we remember Focals by North. 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.240 I wonder the name. I don't remember what they did. 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.360 They shipped a pair of glasses that were very like 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.840 they were a little chunk here. They were obviously something 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.040 a little a little off about these glasses. Horrible display, 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.520 but no, but they had a display, and when you 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:18.840 put them on your face, all of a sudden, what 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.800 materialized in your vision was a little trom like heads 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:23.840 up display and you could see your text messages from 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.920 your phone. You could get drive driving directions, term by 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.640 turn directions, little points of interest things, and it was 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.520 like it was appearing in your eyeball. Of course, it 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.320 was very strange because when you're talking to somebody you'd 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.880 see it. They'd look kind of above your eyebrow, and 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.680 then you'd be like, are you are you checking your 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:38.520 messages while. 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.800 I'm talking to you. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.120 No, no, no, that's where you get the sunglass version, right. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.800 But like, this was a great idea. The technology was 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.160 very fascinating, and then, as often happens, they were purchased 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.320 by Google, and Google either mismanaged it or killed it, and. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.200 It killed it probably both. 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.520 Yeah, it's just brutal, I mean, and that was the 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.720 last time I felt like we were on the cusp 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:04.520 of maybe the next chapter of Personal Mobile Computer. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.480 I yeah, Google Glass look cool. I never got to 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.240 play with it. And I think Robert Scobel has done 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.840 a lot of bad things, But that weird picture of 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.960 him in the shower I genuinely of the show. So 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:21.320 list there's a really disgusting fellow called Robert Scobull, famous 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.600 for reasons I'm not actually sure. He kisses up to 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.399 Elon Musk now wants to marry his tesla. I believe 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.000 I haven't really checked that fact and its opinions, so 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.960 you can't sue me. So Robert Scobel took a picture 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:37.200 wearing his Google Glass while what looks like screaming in 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:44.160 the shower, and I mean, just. 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:44.879 A lot of people talked about that photo. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:50.520 It was very the inverse of pornography. But that moment 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.000 was really unfortunate because Google Glass was too expensive and 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:54.600 all that, and I don't think anyone should have ever 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.560 looked at it as the future arriving that day. But 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:58.879 the idea of a heads up displays cool. I think 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.440 heads up displays a cool think. Yeah, I don't agree 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:03.040 with thee. We need to get away from our phone's thing. 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:05.920 What we need is better society so that it's worth 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.080 looking away. Sam, that's the actual This is an escapism. 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:10.960 We made a tool to escape from the world. It 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.320 rules kind of ripping off Paris marks from tech one 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:14.920 save us there. He made a similar point about the 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.720 vision pro to distract us from real life, which is 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.640 a bit much, but he's not totally off Boom. It's 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.040 weird like heads up displays feel like a future. I 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.560 don't know if it's the big capital T, but that's 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:30.199 a way that they could be useful while getting us 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.760 away from constantly staring. Because there are times where I'd 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.440 like to walk through New York City and just listen 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.760 to music but also know where I'm going because I 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.480 don't ever and heads up display would be good. But 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.560 it's almost like they shouldn't be trying for fifteen years, 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.119 that they need to get to a completely different level 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:50.399 of chip plus display plus everything else and then do 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:51.400 it really well. 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.359 It's just because they are all so desperate to be 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:58.080 the next iPhone hyper like, like I love you know, 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.800 I think everybody in this room currently has an iPhone. 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.080 They're they're they're very good devices. Yeah, and everybody wants 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:06.560 to be the next one because then they get the 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.560 thirty percent lock in they get. They just all just 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.000 cultural cachet. Yeah, it just makes you the next big thing. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.160 And so Meta has been doing that. Google has been 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.680 doing that poorly. Uh, Samsung, you know a lot of 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.000 these people do it, and they all fail at it 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.679 because the text is not there yet, right, Like glasses, 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.719 You're not gonna get glasses until you have actually good displays. 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:28.000 They can also pass. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.560 Through and can turn off and make way with you. 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.040 And most importantly, that you don't look stupid wearing yes, Like, 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.840 if I want to give you a widge Weggie, you've 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.080 you've lost the plot. And I'm I'm liberal with the Wedgies. 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:48.520 So actually it's like a fact room the urge. 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:52.720 So with my song glasses on the entire time. You 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.440 would have to know, but I would, Well, then there 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.720 is half they take them off by the second pat. 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.480 You gonna get some of the details of the flames on. 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.680 Them, well guy Fieri moment. 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.400 So it feels like augmented reality is at least where 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.240 there could be fun now. Yeah, but it feels like 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.679 it's not twenty seven twenty fifteen when they had that 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.080 weird burst of them. It feels like they've all stepped 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:27.960 back for it, which sucks because it feels like we 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:29.600 actually need R and D money there. 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.240 Ye, yes, because I feel like that's the thing. The 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:34.600 point you were just making, Alex, is that the technology 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.600 needs to catch up to the aspiration, right, And we've 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:39.080 seen a lot of the stemo and again the most 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.239 promising one got bought and killed. Yeah, and I've never 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:42.040 seen anything get close. 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.200 I mean, I think I think the ray bands are close, 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:46.919 and they're planning apparently to put a lot more like 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.520 invest a lot more there, right Like they just this 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.440 week I think did a whole reorg the week we're 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.159 recording this, did a whole reorg of this of the 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:57.680 meta division. And so they're like Oculus, you go over 0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.520 here and you go over like an under an ad 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:04.199 sales guy who I don't remember the name, and then 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.720 the ray bands. They're like, Okay, this is like this 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.040 is our focus. They've they've got plans for some glasses 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.760 the next couple of years that are like much more involved. 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.600 We've heard like Google bought Vocal and we haven't heard 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:18.440 anything there and so it could be dead. But also 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.840 like everybody's talking about AR right now, so it feels 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:23.480 like maybe they're coming back. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.560 I think that. So I had an episode about this 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.320 rock calm bubble. Yeah, well, I think what they're doing 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.320 right now is freaking out because they don't have and 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:33.359 they all want to be the next iPhone. But what 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.400 they realize is there is no next iPhone right now. Yep, 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:38.600 there is no next Google or Facebook or anything. 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:39.720 So they're chasing AI. 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.159 That's the chasing AI. But come on, come on. 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:44.760 I was gonna say, you've done a very good job 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.480 in the past three weeks, so demonstrating on this very 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.840 show why AI is not as exciting. 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:52.320 But that's a good point to bring up. 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:52.600 Though. 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.200 How do you two feel about AI? 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.520 Well, I feel I'll say this details with what you 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.720 were just saying, I the company are not the only 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:05.399 ones desperate for the next iPhone. I am desperate anytime again. Pierce, 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.960 you know, wrote that little blurb about, you know, the 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:12.639 season of AI gadgets is here before any of the 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:14.359 Humane and Rabbit stuff came out, and I was like 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:17.280 crossing my fingers as somebody who covers the stuff and 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.240 as somebody who has loved the stuff for as long 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:23.080 as I can remember. I love the excitement of new 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:26.000 things coming out and introducing new possibilities, and I feel 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:30.000 like the AI. I have an increasingly severe grudge against 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:34.479 the AI bubble, the hype cycle for raising my hopes 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:36.639 actually putting some pretty cool hardware in my head. Say 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:38.840 what you want about the Humane payment. That hardware rocks 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.560 and then absolutely cutting its legs out from under it 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.600 because most of its functionality is based on an LLM 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:47.560 that you can't trust because it tells you the sun 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:49.800 is going to set forty minutes ago at eleven in 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:50.160 the morning. 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:52.720 Yeah, I think like AI is. You know, I'm super 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:55.000 excited about Apple Intelligence, mainly because I'm going to be 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:57.919 able to make the best ship posts to send my 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.320 friends because you can do image generation and it's hideous, 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:04.720 it's terrible looking, and I'm so excited to just troll people. 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:08.320 But otherwise, like you know, AI is one of those things, 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:11.360 like we've built lying machines, and as far as large 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:13.800 language models go, they're really bad at it, to the 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:15.960 point where Tim Cook's like, well, I wouldn't say one 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:19.639 hundred percent get it right, And I believe that's actually 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.880 a bad thing you to say, dude. And everybody's saying 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:24.440 that because they're like, don't worry about it, don't worry 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:27.280 about it. I Meanwhile, the researchers are like, actually, language 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.800 models aren't the thing. Don't you should worry about it. 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.800 But everybody's like, but we can make money now, and 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:35.560 so we can't well. 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:40.560 Jenson Wong wang when he's not serving PC gamers like me. 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:45.880 But that's the thing though, That's something he was saying 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:47.920 that Michael was actually kind of the impetus of us 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:50.800 being here today. Something in this show that people say, 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.120 people say about me all the time is oh, you're 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:55.680 just a pessimist, you and all this stuff. I love 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:57.600 this shit. Do you know how excited I am when 0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.000 I get a new dumb gadget I can mess around. 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:02.719 You've got a charger, I right here, anchor charger. I'm 0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:05.760 so excited. I got two, so I've got redundancy. So 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:08.720 happy with that stuff. I love my little gizmos and gadgets. 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.240 I love this stuff, and I haven't really had anything 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:13.159 to The steam deck was the last time I was 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:18.800 really like excited for and then excited after. Yeah, and kind. 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.480 Of the vision pro oh interesting, but it's. 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:25.240 Like there's always a but, and the butt is usually Yeah. 0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:27.720 But the people who made it, they didn't really give 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:30.199 it to real people. Yeah, they gave it to a 0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:33.280 focus group and it was a McKinsey one, so three 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:35.359 quarters of them were paid to say whatever they wanted 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:39.240 to hear and the rest didn't turn up. And it's 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.320 just frustrating because there was a time I think it's 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:44.200 just love the rock kombabb but there was a twenty 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:46.560 year period and we've got new stuff, new stuff, new stuff. 0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:49.520 Even the bad stuff was kind of funny. Yeah, even 0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:52.840 all this dorky indieg Go bullshit, like the Coolest Cooler 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:55.320 which had a speaker at a margerite. You knew that 0:24:55.400 --> 0:24:57.720 was never gonna work, but you kind of enjoyed them try. 0:24:57.880 --> 0:24:59.399 And then they scammed a bunch of people. That was 0:24:59.400 --> 0:24:59.920 also bad. 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:05.879 Yeah, but you stopped getting fun, like there wasn't something 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.480 to look forward to. But the vision pro reason I 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:11.560 brought it up is my first hour with it was 0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:15.280 so exciting, and then I realized that I had like 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:18.479 light bleeding in so I started fucking with it and 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:20.080 I couldn't get it on right, and I spent like 0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:22.600 another hour trying to make it work, and it just 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:24.719 turned out that like I didn't have the right size thing, 0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:27.920 which dramatically improved it, and I was using it fairly often. 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:30.639 I'm like, this is not there yet, but this is 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.280 different and cool and watching movies on its great. 0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:35.720 Then I tried to watch on a plane, how'd that go? 0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:40.160 I got a migrant and I have yet to finish June. 0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:43.320 People say this and Ultimore or whatever it is from 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.440 that to me all the time, but it's it's very 0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:50.240 strange because it almost doesn't feel like anyone's trying. 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:52.320 Yeah, well go ahead. 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:53.879 I was gonna say, like, the VR thing is a 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:57.400 weird one because it is so dependent on the person, right, 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:00.679 Like I had a friend who also just recently did 0:26:00.720 --> 0:26:03.520 a cross country flight, wore their vision pro, watched June 0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:07.080 and June two. Nice back to back and they were they. 0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:08.680 Loved it, absolute legends. 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:12.520 Yeah, whereas you would have presumably thrown up everywhere and. 0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:14.639 They would My head just felt like it would explode it. 0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:14.920 Yeah. 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:17.679 Uh and and and that's just because like your your 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:20.879 vestibular response is totally different than their vestibular response, and 0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.600 it's that's what's gonna happen there. And that's why VR 0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:26.320 is a dead end. And that's why Meta now has 0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:29.720 like been like you go over here, we tried. 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:32.399 It watchful hand of Baz, Yeah, we did that. 0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:34.440 What was it the Meta Quest pro was that? 0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:36.719 Was that the one where they had the Pro one 0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:37.359 they canceled? 0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:39.879 Yeah, where they released it and everybody's like this is 0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:40.800 garbage and they're like. 0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:42.800 Yeah, no, they released it. I think what it was 0:26:42.800 --> 0:26:44.080 was they released it at the same time as the 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:46.480 Quest two, which was like three hundred four hundred bucks. 0:26:46.480 --> 0:26:49.000 People like, this is pretty good. Yeah, Like the expectations 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:50.920 were low, and they're like, but what if you paid 0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:55.080 fourteen hundred dollars for something that wasn't as good? Yeah, 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:57.080 but it was more powerful? 0:26:57.119 --> 0:26:59.160 Well yeah, and that's you were saying a second ago, 0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:00.920 like it doesnt feel like people trying anymore. I think 0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:02.639 that's not it. I think people are trying at the 0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:07.840 wrong thing. Yes, former journalists should be become a journalist 0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:11.720 again because we miss him. David Ruddick was just complaining 0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:14.000 about this on LinkedIn and he was just like, you know, 0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:17.159 with respect to the product managers who I call my friend, Like, 0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:22.159 product managers are ruining the segment because and even you 0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:23.720 can take it out above the PMO. Like, it's like 0:27:23.840 --> 0:27:26.919 companies have realized that if they do enough marketing to 0:27:27.040 --> 0:27:29.640 create artificial demand, then that is a way to make 0:27:29.680 --> 0:27:31.240 money in the short term and you can keep the 0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:32.080 business growing. 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:34.040 Well, is that just what they believe is the case. 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:36.520 It may well be right for the long term. It's 0:27:36.520 --> 0:27:38.280 certainly not true. Yeah, but for the short term it 0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:40.359 may be you get spike and it feels like there's 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:42.600 ten times as much of that as there is for 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:44.679 every ten examples of that, there's one example of a 0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:47.080 company it's actually like, hey, we actually have a good idea. 0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:49.400 Maybe it's a little weird idea, but we think enough 0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:51.399 people buy it, will buy it and find delight in 0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:53.000 it that we can make a business out of it. Right, 0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:56.080 And if more people did that instead of like what, 0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:57.960 how can we make money and get out as quickly 0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:01.000 as possible, right then, I think we have those glory 0:28:01.080 --> 0:28:01.560 days if. 0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:03.680 You can make the money and get up by doing 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:07.359 some people want to buy it. It's just frustrating, true, Alex. 0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:11.040 It's are you enjoying any devices other than the strange 0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:12.000 north White steam deck? 0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:15.160 Yeah, the garbage steam deck that I'm not even gonna score, 0:28:15.240 --> 0:28:18.840 because you should buy it. It's it's it's not going 0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:20.840 to be good for most people, but it's so much 0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:23.879 fun to like fuck around with. I don't know, I 0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:25.400 like that's one of the reasons I got really into 0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:27.600 e ink because it felt like it was much closer 0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:30.080 to like There's felt like there was something there that 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:33.040 could be solved pretty quickly. But that was like five 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:35.680 or six years ago, and it hasn't happened. 0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:37.200 What's slowing it down. 0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:41.120 Because everybody wants to make money through vertical integration, so 0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:42.640 they're like, well, I don't want you to actually get 0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:44.760 anybody else's books on your device. I want you to 0:28:44.800 --> 0:28:45.440 get my books. 0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:47.680 So everyone wants to do a platform play, right. 0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:50.000 So everybody's doing a platform play. So it's it's money again, right, 0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:52.000 Like everybody's like I need all as much of the 0:28:52.040 --> 0:28:53.920 money as I can get to my little side. Because 0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:56.240 Apple did that and it worked really well for Apple. 0:28:56.600 --> 0:28:57.880 They never worked for anyone else. 0:28:59.240 --> 0:29:00.840 Well, I mean Amazon, it kind of works on. 0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:02.200 Amazon already had that scam going. 0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:03.880 Yeah, that's true, that's true. 0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:06.640 And you haven't seen that meaningful evolution in the kindle 0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:08.600 with such an the scribe in a long time. 0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:11.600 Which is insane garbage compared to a lot of the 0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:13.800 stuff because like China, and this is the other point 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.320 is there's a lot of innovation happening in China. A 0:29:16.480 --> 0:29:17.320 ton do you ever. 0:29:17.320 --> 0:29:17.920 Use the odin? 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:18.800 The odin? 0:29:19.120 --> 0:29:22.600 So there was this It's an Android gaming console before 0:29:22.600 --> 0:29:24.720 the Steam deck, so just to be clear, probably not 0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:28.040 as fun, but super fast. You could do PlayStation remote 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:30.720 on it, almost like predecessor to the PlayStation porter, which 0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:32.800 is literally just playing PlayStation and it was great. And 0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:34.560 what they did is a crazy idea. They were like, 0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:36.479 why don't we make it really easy to run the 0:29:36.520 --> 0:29:39.080 specific gaming apps you like? And what if we made 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:39.880 the buttons good? 0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:41.040 Yeah? 0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:41.840 And what are crazy? 0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:42.160 Like? 0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:44.360 Sold out? Indiegogo did really well. Comes out of China, 0:29:44.400 --> 0:29:49.040 and it's like this current sinophobic climate's fucking frustrating. Because 0:29:49.280 --> 0:29:52.080 let them in, please borrow the innovation from them. They 0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:55.280 seem China seems to be fucking trying with tech right. 0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:57.520 And one of the reasons they're trying because I kind 0:29:57.520 --> 0:29:59.440 of went down a rabbit hole with the eating thing 0:29:59.480 --> 0:30:01.520 where I was like, why is nobody trying this, Like 0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:03.760 you're getting all these really cool eat ink readers out 0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:07.400 of China and nothing here, And it was because we're 0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:09.880 so obsessed with that lock in. We're so obsessed with 0:30:09.920 --> 0:30:11.920 how do we build that bigger model. We don't want 0:30:11.920 --> 0:30:13.240 to just sell one thing. We want to sell you 0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:15.760 the services, We want to sell you the platform, and 0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:17.800 and America is just super hyper focused on that, where 0:30:17.880 --> 0:30:20.640 China's like, yeah, I mean I don't care who you use, well, 0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:21.520 I mean by our ship. 0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:24.040 I mean as they also have one monopoly. 0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:27.760 Yeah, yeah, it's like we all operate within this one. 0:30:28.120 --> 0:30:31.320 We're all controlled by ten Cent. But yeah, but it's 0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:34.760 frustrating because I feel like what it might also be 0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:36.600 is that they're like, how do we make the next 0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:39.160 trillion dollar company or billion dollar company? They're like, what 0:30:39.240 --> 0:30:41.000 if you made a fifty million dollar company? No? 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:43.800 Yeah, fuck that, Well you got you gotta you gotta 0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:47.040 get your your your investors right, you gotta get your stockholders, 0:30:47.040 --> 0:30:50.280 you gotta do all of that. And and apparently money 0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:53.360 is not free. People don't just give money away. 0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:56.440 Got to give one hundred million dollars to Adam Newman 0:30:56.520 --> 0:30:59.560 again so that you can make the next bad company. 0:30:59.840 --> 0:31:00.840 I think that happened. 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:02.640 It did. He got two hundred and fifty million dollars. 0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:04.560 Well, I just I want to fill that hard up. 0:31:05.000 --> 0:31:06.520 That sounds rate so good. 0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:08.520 Well, and like we I don't mean to keep bringing 0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:09.840 it back to humane, but that was the thing I 0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:11.720 kept saying in the Humane briefing. I was just like, guys, 0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:13.360 I know this is not what you want to hear, 0:31:13.560 --> 0:31:15.960 but this would be a great little accessory for the phone. 0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:17.400 You could still do a lot of cool things and 0:31:17.520 --> 0:31:19.440 have it linked to your phone, and then it wouldn't 0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:21.520 be well, a bunch of things would. 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:22.640 It did not work, but. 0:31:24.440 --> 0:31:26.520 You didn't catch on fire. That's that's exactly. 0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:27.160 I'm still here. 0:31:27.280 --> 0:31:27.960 You're still here. 0:31:28.480 --> 0:31:31.080 But like the it wasn't a bold enough vision. And 0:31:31.120 --> 0:31:33.600 they didn't say this, I assume this. It wasn't a 0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:35.800 bold enough vision one to get a bunch of people 0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:38.280 motivated to do because if you're replacing the smartphone. Big 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:40.560 quotes around that. Well, that's a that's a mission that's 0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:42.880 at least difficult. That's like a moonshot. And then B 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:45.400 you can't get enough investors excited to your point to 0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:47.440 give you all the all the money that you just 0:31:47.440 --> 0:31:48.160 want to put together. 0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:51.120 Just a note for listeners. That's the humane AI pin 0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:54.200 Google it. It's terrible. Seven one dollars twenty four dollars 0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:56.920 a month, just the basic thing. But the human was 0:31:56.960 --> 0:31:58.360 so weird though. And this is the thing that I 0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:00.640 will never understand and they will never tell me, is 0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:03.280 how did you put this out the door? How did 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:04.120 you look at this thing? 0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:04.400 Oh? 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:08.200 It overheats in two minutes? Oh chat GBT sometimes doesn't work. 0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:11.920 Basic shame. I mean I would not want to do it. 0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:12.880 I would be like. 0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:15.160 They kind of had to write like they they kind 0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:16.880 of hit their their point where it's like should to 0:32:16.920 --> 0:32:17.560 get off the pot? 0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:19.960 This is the question I don't know I asked that 0:32:20.000 --> 0:32:22.120 about it. It's just two x human is it rabbit? 0:32:22.160 --> 0:32:23.960 Cynical one believe. 0:32:24.040 --> 0:32:26.160 I think Rabbit had to launch before the what we 0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:27.720 all knew was gonna happen, which was Google was going 0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:29.560 to do us Apple was going to do. 0:32:30.320 --> 0:32:34.320 Yeah, people saw how it operated so that they could 0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:36.000 say this, it looks cool. 0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:37.560 Yeah, it does look cool. 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:41.600 He is on the board of teenage Engineering. He is 0:32:41.640 --> 0:32:43.880 on the board. This boys are sick. Okay, we're going 0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:44.720 to talk about the Rabbit. 0:32:45.080 --> 0:32:45.560 It's time. 0:32:45.960 --> 0:32:47.960 So those listeners who don't know about the rabbit. Is 0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:50.920 this two hundred dollars AI device and it claims to 0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:53.760 have something on it called a large Action model. Large 0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:56.240 Action Model claims it was trained on six hundred plus 0:32:56.280 --> 0:32:59.160 apps to distinctly control your raps, but for some reason 0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:01.520 it only launch with four or five. Turns out that 0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:04.800 when you ask the lamb to do something, it would 0:33:04.960 --> 0:33:07.360 sometimes just not work. Sometimes you would say or to 0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:11.719 me McDonald and it would go sorry, Uber isn't working. 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:14.760 And it turns out, due to some friendly hackers that 0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:17.200 it turned out that it isn't actually using a large 0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:20.520 action model. It's connected to playwright, a script thing. I'm 0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:22.840 sure more technical listeners are going to email me corrections. 0:33:22.880 --> 0:33:25.800 I'm very sorry. But in shut instead of running a 0:33:26.000 --> 0:33:29.600 large action model an actual AI thing, it was triggering 0:33:29.600 --> 0:33:33.520 scripts using chat GPT. Now I could do a whole 0:33:33.560 --> 0:33:35.719 episode in surprise. I haven't over the whole thing that 0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:38.600 there used to be an NFT company, but putting all 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:42.520 of the obvious horrible things aside, it just fucking sucks. Yeah, 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:46.880 it's just really bad in a way that is almost unbelievable. 0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:49.640 I recommend you going look. Dave three D did a 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:51.160 whole thing about it before it came out that was 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:54.719 very good. But go and look at Linuses and Linus. 0:33:54.760 --> 0:33:56.240 I know people have problems with him, but his the 0:33:56.240 --> 0:33:57.680 thing about the rabbit was great because it was mostly 0:33:57.760 --> 0:33:59.640 him trying stuff it not working, and it goes what 0:33:59.640 --> 0:34:01.920 what what, which was very entertaining. 0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:03.240 It's very funny. 0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:06.120 But it's just broken. 0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:06.560 Yeah. 0:34:06.640 --> 0:34:10.040 Yeah, and they raised another thirty two million dollars in March. 0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:13.760 It feels like I am living in a different universe 0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:14.279 to the. 0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:14.960 Rest of the world. 0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:17.560 I see this. It's bad. The YouTube's like, this is 0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:20.840 the worst thing I've ever used. Investorsla absolutely, Yeah. I 0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:22.160 need to get in on the shit now. 0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:22.839 Yeah. 0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:23.080 Yeah. 0:34:23.080 --> 0:34:25.279 Elon Musk has just sent them wrote them a check. 0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:28.600 He did not, to my knowledge, for write them a check. 0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:29.279 He wouldn't do that. 0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:30.720 It's an epic andvice device. 0:34:30.800 --> 0:34:33.080 Yeah, I don't think you're alone. I think there is 0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:35.680 a weird tension happening where we have Silicon Valley. We 0:34:35.719 --> 0:34:38.080 have all these investors in Silicon Valley who are all 0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:41.520 just desperate to make money and never took a single 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:45.600 history English course like any liberal arts. They think that's stupid. 0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:47.400 And then there's the rest of the world. Yeah, and 0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:49.440 these people are so focused on money they forget the 0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:51.160 rest of the world. They never touch grass. And so 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:52.680 they'll put on the vision pro and be like, this 0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:54.319 is going to change the face of computing, and not 0:34:54.360 --> 0:34:57.719 consider the billion of different other ways people use computers. 0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:03.799 Or they'll see the the rabbit with the worst name 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:07.280 on the planet. By the way, a majority of women 0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:09.400 I know the rabbit was coming. 0:35:09.160 --> 0:35:11.160 Out, was like, why gonna pay two hundred dollars for that? 0:35:11.760 --> 0:35:13.799 I got one in my drawer next to my bed. 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:16.960 What the hell, guys, I'm dying to know more about 0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:18.040 that weight. I didn't even put. 0:35:17.880 --> 0:35:20.480 That the rabbit is a very notorial, like that's that's 0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:23.040 a term for a whole type of sex toy that is. 0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:24.200 Yeah, I had no idea. 0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:26.080 Yeah, And so like when they were like, we've got 0:35:26.080 --> 0:35:28.399 the rabbit, and I was like, do you oh it's 0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:31.600 a different rat Like now bring out the ra You're like, whoa, 0:35:34.000 --> 0:35:36.160 what's happened to Cees? I knew you guys were doing 0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:37.080 sex text now. 0:35:36.960 --> 0:35:39.680 But wow, so I moved the thing away from c 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:43.560 That's depending on But I think I think that it 0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:45.480 is that that there's the kind of disconnection from the 0:35:45.520 --> 0:35:47.680 real world, but there's also I don't know if these 0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:49.359 people use stuff. I just don't. 0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:50.279 I don't think they do. 0:35:50.400 --> 0:35:53.560 I don't know if they use it. Like I really 0:35:53.600 --> 0:35:56.080 want to just get behind Marc Andreeson at one point 0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:57.960 and can't say the rest of that, but I mean, 0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:00.320 look over his shoulder and see the funds eyes on 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:03.120 his iPhone right like I want to see it because 0:36:03.280 --> 0:36:05.680 I don't think these people interact with the real world, 0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:08.480 will touch gross. But I also don't think they like 0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:11.000 I don't think well app vision pro is different because 0:36:11.000 --> 0:36:13.760 public company whatever. Yeah, but like the Rabbit, for example, 0:36:13.800 --> 0:36:16.239 I don't think they fucking can I like, these little 0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:17.120 pigs will buy this. 0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:19.640 Well, they'd already bought it, right like, like they announced 0:36:19.640 --> 0:36:21.960 the thing, they made these huge promises, they did a 0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:24.879 ton of pre sales, and then it came out and 0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:27.560 we haven't heard how the pre sales or how the 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:28.279 sales have. 0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:32.440 Hundred thousand units after Oh we don't they don't. 0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:34.120 Yeah, well, well, and I don't know what we're gonna 0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:35.600 hear about that, right, like we. 0:36:35.560 --> 0:36:39.120 Are not it's coming from I think, you know, I mean, 0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:43.239 if they I'm with you. I think there are dubious 0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:46.160 business motivations to a lot of this, right. But I 0:36:46.560 --> 0:36:48.839 can't help but think that if I was inside one 0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:51.440 of these organizations that I wouldn't look No, I know, 0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:53.239 I would have been caught up in it. I would 0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:54.560 have been caught up in the ambition. I would have 0:36:54.600 --> 0:36:56.840 been caught up in the promise, especially when you consider 0:36:56.880 --> 0:36:58.480 that the design process of a lot of this stuff 0:36:58.480 --> 0:37:00.160 goes back to the time where we were most of 0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:03.640 us are getting our first chance to interact with chat GPT, 0:37:03.760 --> 0:37:06.960 and I'm like to make me a text adventure in 0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:09.800 the style of Star Trek Deeps Race nine. Yeah, and 0:37:09.520 --> 0:37:12.200 it did it, And I was like, oh, oh my god. 0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:13.960 You know, I remember where I was when that happened. 0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:14.960 It was like the first time I put on a 0:37:15.040 --> 0:37:17.640 VR headset. I remember the first time I was actually 0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:19.120 blown away by AI. And if I was in an 0:37:19.160 --> 0:37:21.080 inside a company or a recently hybrid companies, like we're 0:37:21.080 --> 0:37:23.160 going to change the world with this tech. I think 0:37:23.200 --> 0:37:25.200 I would have I probably would have been on that 0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:28.200 boat for like a year before I started getting real 0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:29.799 internally by. 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:32.719 Chat GPT initially, yeah, yeah, I like for me, I 0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:34.399 used it, and it just reminded me of the aim 0:37:34.480 --> 0:37:38.040 bots from like I'm old here, I'm an apologies to 0:37:38.080 --> 0:37:40.640 the audience. I'm sure you're all twelve, Hi, why are 0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:41.040 you listening? 0:37:41.239 --> 0:37:42.000 Sure, I'm older than you. 0:37:42.200 --> 0:37:45.680 Yeah, we're old people. But the AIME bots, you'd go 0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:47.680 and you log in and you type and and type back, 0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:50.319 and then there's we've seen this so many times and 0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:50.839 this one I was. 0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:52.839 Like, Okay to Eliza, yeah, we're back to this. 0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:56.080 We're back to this, Like the pattern recognition and recreation 0:37:56.160 --> 0:37:59.360 machine has gotten just really really good, and I was like, 0:37:59.520 --> 0:37:59.959 that's fine. 0:38:00.560 --> 0:38:03.239 Yeah, that's kind of That's actually where I was as well, like, oh, 0:38:03.320 --> 0:38:05.440 you can do a text bace adventure, and I think 0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:08.600 i'd have heard that. I would have gone cool, all right, 0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:12.040 and just kind of just say because I run a 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:15.440 PR firm, yeah, I have clients in AI, but nothing 0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:18.680 that touches this show because I'm scared of that. And 0:38:18.719 --> 0:38:21.239 it's like it's a few clients night who have even 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:22.759 just do a I think that's the thing. I don't 0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:25.680 surprisingly enough AI companies aren't super excited to work with 0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.040 me when I'm talking about them actually having to do stuff. 0:38:28.520 --> 0:38:30.600 But it's like with chat GPT, for example. I know, 0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:34.080 I actually understand totally Michael, why you were excited like that. 0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:37.000 I can understand why others might have been excited by that. 0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:41.320 I just don't understand how they're still that way because 0:38:41.360 --> 0:38:43.280 nothing has happened. 0:38:43.400 --> 0:38:46.640 Money, honey, I guess, But I mean money is a 0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:47.920 very powerful driver. 0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:50.880 If you work for a financial institution. I get, But 0:38:51.000 --> 0:38:55.319 like gadgetw even just regular people don't seem excited. It's 0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:57.600 just so weird. It feels like living in two realities 0:38:57.600 --> 0:38:57.959 at once. 0:38:58.040 --> 0:38:58.759 Yeah. 0:38:58.800 --> 0:39:01.120 And like there was a sign that someone posted on 0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:05.640 blue Sky was like we put the AI in an 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:09.160 inn I p A. It was a Dell advert what. Yeah, 0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:12.120 I just I feel like I like it. I have 0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:15.240 a friend who is in a dot com boom company, yeah, 0:39:15.280 --> 0:39:18.160 like a textbook related one, and I'm really tempted to 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:20.680 call him and be like was it like this was 0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:22.919 it like this, and if he says yes, I'm gonna 0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:25.160 do nothing because I can't invest in anything now because 0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:29.080 I run a bloody podcast. I can't do anything. You 0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:31.359 can't short ship. It's like the big short. But Steve 0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:32.839 Goss just like, well, I'll just go home. 0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:35.640 I guess I think like we have to give give 0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:37.359 credit to the to the entire thing. First of all, 0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:40.440 the marketing approach to AI has been really frustrating because 0:39:40.440 --> 0:39:42.800 everything is a I know, stuff that was that existed 0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:46.560 before in its has been ported directly, unchanged and just 0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:49.719 rebranded as as AI, just much in the same way. 0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:51.560 I think somebody brought up to me at the at 0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:53.840 the John Deere event. I was just at could we 0:39:53.880 --> 0:39:55.200 will not be talking about okay? 0:39:56.200 --> 0:39:57.960 I had so many questions somebody brought up. 0:39:57.960 --> 0:39:59.560 I was like, yeah, it's like slapping a non GMO 0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:03.120 label on an unchanged box of weed. Things like. It's like, okay, well, 0:40:03.360 --> 0:40:06.000 AI is just being marketed much too aggressively, So you 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:08.200 have stuff stuck in here kind of getting caught in 0:40:08.200 --> 0:40:10.680 the in the flat. That's like, that's really useful, but 0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:13.640 it's it's these it's a seasoning that you put on 0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:16.800 something that is already used. Yeah, it's not in itself 0:40:16.840 --> 0:40:19.480 a self contained thing capable of driving a whole new 0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:23.240 range of especially gadgets, which again makes me very sad, 0:40:23.600 --> 0:40:25.880 because every time you would touch a new AI, I 0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:28.919 think the plot a the plod note, that little self 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:31.719 contained AI voice recorder was like, this is very cool. 0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:34.120 I wish it were an alternate universe in the year 0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:36.080 two thousand and I could actually get excited about this 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:38.320 because what this is is a feature that belongs in 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:41.160 the Google recorder And oh sorry, I just finished this 0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:43.560 video and that's exactly what Google built in to their 0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:45.480 recorder when that was done, and I. 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:48.520 Was like, okay, well home with that for now. 0:40:48.680 --> 0:40:50.839 Yeah, it's bummer pivots A. 0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:53.560 Yeah, everybody, I mean yeah, I think they're just going 0:40:53.640 --> 0:40:57.600 to pivot back and forth. Everybody's gonna be constantly oscillating 0:40:57.719 --> 0:41:01.799 until like something sticks because they're so desperate for that 0:41:01.880 --> 0:41:04.960 next thing. They're so eager that everybody's just looking for 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:07.960 the money. They know it somewhere and like right now 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.640 it is all in n video stock and they're hoping 0:41:10.640 --> 0:41:12.840 that it will somehow come to them at some point. 0:41:13.200 --> 0:41:15.560 Why not you, I don't know, It's like why not 0:41:15.560 --> 0:41:17.799 build some fucking hardware to put video stuff in. I 0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:19.759 realized those black bell chips aren't what we're talking about, 0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:22.480 But I don't know. It's almost as if no one 0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:24.279 wants to do the work in the middle. They're like, 0:41:24.400 --> 0:41:26.800 I've got an idea and I need to make a product. 0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:30.319 Can I skip the middle part? It's boring, it's expensive, 0:41:30.480 --> 0:41:32.360 it takes forever. I need to have this shit on 0:41:32.400 --> 0:41:34.080 the market in six months, and it can't be. And 0:41:34.880 --> 0:41:36.640 I it is the growth that all costs for rot 0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:39.000 economy ever in about one hundred times. But it's also 0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:41.720 frustrating because I actually think, if they put in the effort, 0:41:41.760 --> 0:41:44.160 this would be cool. When it comes to AI. Part 0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:46.279 of my frustration comes back to that thing we were 0:41:46.280 --> 0:41:49.880 saying earlier about how we've been let down, because I 0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:53.840 would actually love it if I could reliably tell my 0:41:53.920 --> 0:41:57.160 phone to take distinct actions. Send the calendar invite to 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:01.160 Alex and Michael, Yes, three pm at the iHeartRadio studio, 0:42:01.320 --> 0:42:04.480 and just fucking send it and it would know how 0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:06.719 maybe it goes. Do you want eastern a Pacific time? 0:42:06.960 --> 0:42:09.640 Or wait? I said, New York you already know. And 0:42:09.680 --> 0:42:11.560 it sends the invites and they find your emails. That 0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:14.839 would be useful. I wish in my regular email job 0:42:14.920 --> 0:42:17.600 I could have it through the spreadsheets and the documents. 0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:20.480 It can't, it can't actually do these things. Yeah, and 0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:22.960 this please make that the future. No, it isn't the future. 0:42:22.960 --> 0:42:24.880 We need to They can't even describe what it is. 0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:27.400 And it's just because it can't do that future yet, right, Like, 0:42:27.440 --> 0:42:30.480 there's the thing we have now. The thing that everybody 0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:34.520 got really excited about was they released GPT three point five. 0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:38.400 Everybody went, oh, crap, this can write this can write stuff, 0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:41.400 and it can write it not like garbage for once, 0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:44.279 and this is huge. And all of the researchers just 0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:46.080 roll their eyes because they'd seen this for ages. They 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:47.680 were like, yeah, it's a lare language bottle. That's what 0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:50.880 they do. They calm down, and everybody's like no, And 0:42:50.880 --> 0:42:54.239 then the downloads increased. The downloads increase, and everybody's like, wait, 0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:59.200 I think there's some money here, right, and let's just 0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:02.520 like rye, this hype just right into the ground as 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:04.120 long as we can write it, as long as we 0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:08.279 count until it gets it around. And that's pretty much 0:43:08.280 --> 0:43:11.960 what happened just right. 0:43:12.080 --> 0:43:14.239 Yeah, I'm trying to im like I'm still you know, 0:43:14.600 --> 0:43:17.440 I'm halfway between like the stuff that that we're all 0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:19.520 talking about and then the stuff that I see again 0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:22.239 in these little flashes of like what I'll be on 0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:24.520 a trip with and Kevin neither will be. I'll be like, 0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:26.040 what are you doing? He's like, well, I have a cold, 0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:28.480 so I can't do voiceover for my video. But I 0:43:28.560 --> 0:43:31.160 built a model of my own voice, so now all 0:43:31.160 --> 0:43:32.880 I have to do is type in something and script 0:43:32.880 --> 0:43:35.280 in the model in my voice reads into the audience. 0:43:35.320 --> 0:43:37.480 And I'm like, well that's useful. Cool, all right, Well 0:43:37.560 --> 0:43:40.560 you don't bookmark that like generative fill stuff where it's 0:43:40.560 --> 0:43:42.560 like it's not like I'm typing into mid journey, like 0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:46.400 make me a photo of a high turtle eating macaroni 0:43:46.400 --> 0:43:50.120 and cheese while watch. It's like, no, I mean that 0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:52.920 is yeah, but like when you wroteate a photo right 0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:54.440 in it and you have to fill in the stuff 0:43:54.480 --> 0:43:56.120 with with fake scenery just to make it look okay, 0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:58.360 so you can run a blog post, It's like that's useful. 0:43:58.400 --> 0:44:00.400 So there's these little a lot of. 0:44:00.400 --> 0:44:03.120 These smaller things that it could be super super useful, 0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:05.440 but that's not what they want to focus on because 0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:08.520 that takes actual work. That takes there's more development than 0:44:08.560 --> 0:44:09.040 need to happen. 0:44:09.360 --> 0:44:11.800 You're already big enough that you've bought whatever little company 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:13.680 came up with that, and you built like you're Adobe. 0:44:13.680 --> 0:44:14.800 You built it in a Photoshop. 0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:18.080 Yeah, so then everybody hates you because you're Adobe. 0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:20.640 I think it's almost like they are really good at 0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:24.400 features but terrible at products like these aren't useful because 0:44:24.440 --> 0:44:27.960 the actual user interface of phones is really good and 0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:31.680 also very bad. I will lose what I am doing 0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:34.919 on my phone sometimes. I have five hundred and eighty 0:44:34.960 --> 0:44:36.279 seven Safari taps up. 0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:38.160 That doesn't surprise because. 0:44:37.960 --> 0:44:41.400 The UX on there is so wonky and it's so 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:43.120 like it's not like on a computer where you have 0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:46.200 like like a Actually that was just like close crum 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:49.000 taps on my computer too. But I don't lose shit 0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:50.600 as much, but I still do on the computer. 0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:51.279 Yea. 0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:55.480 I I don't miss meetings because I generally forced myself 0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:58.120 to be on time, as I was not today, and 0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:02.560 it's the fact that I have to moderate so much 0:45:02.640 --> 0:45:04.960 of this stuff. Yeah, everyone's talking about AI. That really 0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:08.680 pisses me off. Why can the phone if AI is 0:45:08.719 --> 0:45:11.600 the goddamn future. Why are we so far from well. 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:13.960 The other part of that is the security in privacy, 0:45:14.000 --> 0:45:17.400 Like we just saw as we're recording this earlier today, 0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:20.000 Apple said, actually, a bunch of these features that we 0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:23.880 announced at WWDC, like Apple Intelligence, which is gonna make 0:45:23.960 --> 0:45:26.200 Siri like do a lot of the stuff we all 0:45:26.239 --> 0:45:29.640 want it to do. They're not coming to Europe because 0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:32.160 the DMA, and they're like, oh, you know, we're worried 0:45:32.239 --> 0:45:35.680 it's gonna like do something about the privacy. Recall is 0:45:35.719 --> 0:45:38.520 another example that was the Windows feature where it was like, 0:45:38.600 --> 0:45:41.359 what if we just to me. I was editing our 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:43.279 postport and I was like, this rules. I didn't even 0:45:43.280 --> 0:45:44.759 think about the security because I was like, oh, it's 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:46.279 going to take a picture and I'm just gonna know. 0:45:46.400 --> 0:45:48.080 And I'm like, I'd recently been trying to look for 0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:50.080 a text message from ten years ago. So it is 0:45:50.120 --> 0:45:53.920 feeling very like this is perfect for me specifically, and 0:45:53.920 --> 0:45:56.239 then everybody's like, this is the worst thing to ever 0:45:56.320 --> 0:45:57.879 happen in my life. 0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:02.240 What's great is they didn't actually solve the real problem, 0:46:02.280 --> 0:46:07.000 which was search searching for things. Spotlight is actually really good, yeah, 0:46:07.000 --> 0:46:09.440 but it's not good enough. No, it could just be 0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:11.680 a little bit better. Searching for stuff on your messages 0:46:11.719 --> 0:46:13.880 could be better. That would require them to make that better. 0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:16.160 They're like, no, if we just what we did, which 0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:18.879 is what we just call it, like, just wrote it down. Well, 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:21.440 just wrote down literally everything you've ever done, got. 0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:23.920 In a plain text file, and then we'll just use 0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:26.520 AI to train on that and it'll be great. Yeah, 0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:29.000 And I'm like, yeah, that is definitely a solution. 0:46:30.040 --> 0:46:32.880 It's reminding me of something. I switched to a text 0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:38.000 message provider like fifteen years ago, and I was intoxicated 0:46:38.040 --> 0:46:39.719 by the prospect of being able to search all of 0:46:39.719 --> 0:46:42.040 my text messages for all time, which took down a 0:46:42.080 --> 0:46:44.080 few times, and over the course of the past like 0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:48.399 two years, I've been like, I must delete that entire archive. Yeah, 0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:49.759 just a massive liability. 0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:52.120 I have all wait emails, but not my text Yeah. 0:46:52.239 --> 0:46:53.759 No, I keep all of them. Don't worry. 0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:56.000 I guess you and I will go down together. 0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:56.279 Yeah. 0:46:56.320 --> 0:46:57.960 Yeah, well I'm taking everybody. 0:46:58.160 --> 0:47:00.000 You're indicted in all kinds. 0:47:01.200 --> 0:47:03.480 Yeah, I hopefully please don't indict me. 0:47:04.760 --> 0:47:06.680 Please don't indict anyone who's on Better off line. 0:47:06.800 --> 0:47:07.520 Yeah, thank you. 0:47:07.600 --> 0:47:20.160 Request so. 0:47:20.280 --> 0:47:22.520 Returning from a commercial break that I'll announce next time. 0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:27.440 It's just I wonder if it's something to do with 0:47:27.480 --> 0:47:30.240 the venture capital climate, but not just that they don't 0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:34.160 want to invest in things that aren't going to grow huge, 0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:37.400 but also I think they're scared of hardware. They just 0:47:37.480 --> 0:47:41.160 the concept of hardware is expensive. It's expensive. But also, 0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:44.080 like you've been saying, there's not really a platform like 0:47:44.440 --> 0:47:46.799 there is if you own the hardware device, but you 0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:49.160 need to come up with some noxious way to charge 0:47:49.200 --> 0:47:49.719 them more. 0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:53.279 Yeah, everybody is obsessed with how do we get that 0:47:53.320 --> 0:47:56.200 extra that extra money right With the exception of some 0:47:56.360 --> 0:47:57.879 hardware in this room currently. 0:47:57.560 --> 0:48:02.879 Thank you very much that we just had an addrec. 0:48:05.360 --> 0:48:08.080 But for the most part, everybody is obsessed with us. 0:48:08.080 --> 0:48:09.560 When we saw those with video games, I think that's 0:48:09.600 --> 0:48:10.960 one of that was like one of the first ones 0:48:11.000 --> 0:48:13.480 we saw it with where they're like, what if we 0:48:13.600 --> 0:48:16.200 charge you just to play online with your friends even 0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:20.520 though it doesn't cost us anything to do that? Really well, 0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:21.240 I mean customer. 0:48:21.920 --> 0:48:25.000 I think it became with it became Jesus Christ began 0:48:25.239 --> 0:48:28.080 with the game. It was Moro wind or Oblivion that 0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:30.560 they had the horse armor. That was the big moment. 0:48:30.560 --> 0:48:33.800 They charged two ninety nine for some armor for your horse. 0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:34.879 Did you get it? No? 0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:38.399 Maybe the eldestcrolls online. But nevertheless, that was the moment 0:48:38.440 --> 0:48:39.879 when it but they were like uh. 0:48:40.680 --> 0:48:43.120 And then we got the more micro transactions. They're like, oh, 0:48:43.160 --> 0:48:45.840 do you want to do a cool little like handwave 0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:49.759 and destiny five dollars and I paid it, un like you, 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:52.520 I paid the five dollars. I was like, take my money, Bungee. 0:48:52.520 --> 0:48:53.000 I'm sorry. 0:48:53.560 --> 0:48:56.120 Since we're talking about old timey things. The first time 0:48:56.160 --> 0:48:59.640 I encountered this was with Napster, when Napster went legit. 0:49:00.000 --> 0:49:01.680 Do you remember that very brief moment. 0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:04.280 You were still with Napster when I went I moved. 0:49:04.120 --> 0:49:06.720 One to it? Nouse. You know I've done the linewired 0:49:06.760 --> 0:49:09.480 and because I ruined several computers. Yes, And then Napster 0:49:09.560 --> 0:49:11.680 comes out and it's like, hey, we're going legit. Just 0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:13.960 pay us this very affordable monthly fee and you get 0:49:13.960 --> 0:49:15.799 on limited music. I'm like great. And then I got 0:49:15.800 --> 0:49:17.759 to the part of the you know, front page. It's like, yeah, 0:49:17.800 --> 0:49:19.279 and if you ever stop paying us, you will lose 0:49:19.280 --> 0:49:21.960 access to all that music. I'm like, what, Yeah, it's 0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:24.000 two thousand and six, and what is this and. 0:49:23.920 --> 0:49:26.040 Now that's how Spotify works exactly? 0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:26.440 Yes? 0:49:26.600 --> 0:49:28.160 Now or do you have a free account? 0:49:28.280 --> 0:49:31.560 So yeah, I don't pay for Spotify neither. 0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:32.280 Because I'm an influence. 0:49:34.320 --> 0:49:35.359 I pay for Apple Music. 0:49:35.440 --> 0:49:37.439 I'm like, I really I get it through my my 0:49:37.440 --> 0:49:38.800 my phone bill for some reason. 0:49:39.239 --> 0:49:40.000 That's good. 0:49:40.280 --> 0:49:42.279 Yeah, it's great. So I'm like, I do I pay 0:49:42.320 --> 0:49:43.360 for it? But unclear? 0:49:43.600 --> 0:49:46.759 But it's just weird because it feels like there were 0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:50.400 very obvious problems that people have, Like phones are the 0:49:50.480 --> 0:49:53.000 whole stop using your phone thing is stupid. Can't you 0:49:53.000 --> 0:49:54.359 in the top list Thatt b I had a really 0:49:54.400 --> 0:49:55.839 good piece. It's like I love my phone. I love 0:49:55.840 --> 0:49:58.080 being on my phone. Yeah, the problem is there's too 0:49:58.160 --> 0:50:00.880 much shit in it and that doesn't Google I need 0:50:00.920 --> 0:50:02.840 you to search for me. You're also not good in it. 0:50:03.440 --> 0:50:07.160 But it's the I feel like they are selling us 0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:10.360 back the idea of interfaces, except they're not even doing it. 0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:13.480 They're not actually automating anything. That's the thing with the AI. 0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:15.480 That is the problem of AI other than all the 0:50:15.480 --> 0:50:18.719 other ones, which is it's not doing anything for me. 0:50:18.840 --> 0:50:22.279 What is it doing when even the Apple Intelligence thing. 0:50:22.320 --> 0:50:25.200 We just did an episode on Excited about the prospect 0:50:25.280 --> 0:50:28.200 of what they could do, but also they didn't actually 0:50:28.280 --> 0:50:32.000 say much Siri can do actions across multiplaps. 0:50:31.600 --> 0:50:34.440 And also it's not coming until well after launch, right. 0:50:34.800 --> 0:50:35.960 Is it Jesus Christ? 0:50:36.040 --> 0:50:38.160 Yeah? Or some of the features they were really like 0:50:38.400 --> 0:50:40.960 they weren't clear on which features are coming immediately, which 0:50:41.040 --> 0:50:41.359 or later. 0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:46.080 Just this obfiscation and it's almost I mean, because that 0:50:46.200 --> 0:50:48.000 was WWTC Google Io. 0:50:48.120 --> 0:50:51.279 We just finished this big developer conference season. And while 0:50:51.320 --> 0:50:54.200 it was ostensibly for developers and ostensibly for the rest 0:50:54.200 --> 0:50:57.040 of us, and it should have been developers, because never 0:50:57.160 --> 0:51:00.600 has the relationship between these platforms and developers more fraud 0:51:00.880 --> 0:51:02.799 the stuff that's happening in Europe with the DMA has 0:51:02.800 --> 0:51:05.920 made it really really difficult, and instead it was for 0:51:06.320 --> 0:51:09.319 investors and saying here, we've got we've got our AI 0:51:09.440 --> 0:51:11.120 thing too. We are in on the hype, and it's like, 0:51:11.160 --> 0:51:14.399 you don't have to be like we talked about I'm 0:51:14.400 --> 0:51:15.840 gonna do a little plug here. We talked about this 0:51:15.880 --> 0:51:21.359 on the Verge cast the verges Sorry, what what where? 0:51:21.400 --> 0:51:25.359 Where I sometimes talk about stuff too, And we talked 0:51:25.360 --> 0:51:27.439 about it over there, and it was really really clear 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:29.600 that they just they'd done this for the investors and 0:51:29.680 --> 0:51:32.239 if they hadn't been doing AI this year, and it 0:51:32.320 --> 0:51:34.120 was really clear that that was kind of bolted on. 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:37.120 Everybody would be talking about how stupid and dumb and 0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:39.960 delightful your phone looks because you can change the color 0:51:40.000 --> 0:51:42.920 on it now, right, Like you can change the user interface, 0:51:43.280 --> 0:51:45.640 and like there was these cool moments that happened and 0:51:45.680 --> 0:51:48.240 they just were like, no, no, no, forget that AI. 0:51:49.920 --> 0:51:52.040 Yeah go buck, No, no, man, that's it. I mean 0:51:52.040 --> 0:51:54.440 like it's that that And that has been the case 0:51:54.800 --> 0:51:56.719 since I got into this business. Right, It's like you 0:51:56.760 --> 0:51:58.919 go to a show and well, what's the theme this year? 0:51:59.000 --> 0:52:00.600 You know? And I think we saw seeds of this. 0:52:00.680 --> 0:52:03.799 Soone in twenty seventeen when Google first spent like half 0:52:03.840 --> 0:52:08.560 of Google io talking about bots. What are you doing here? 0:52:08.680 --> 0:52:10.719 I think it was the same year that Facebook when 0:52:10.719 --> 0:52:13.880 they did f eight was it fate? Oh, and they're like, 0:52:14.080 --> 0:52:18.799 we're going to revolutionize the world with chat bots in Facebook? 0:52:18.960 --> 0:52:19.200 Yeah? 0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:19.879 Where are those? 0:52:20.120 --> 0:52:24.320 M was the m assistant right with me? With Facebook? 0:52:26.760 --> 0:52:29.520 It was so fucking But it's always there's always that big, 0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:32.640 you know, overarching theme, and it's again to your point, 0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:35.040 yes it is to you know, curry favor with with 0:52:35.120 --> 0:52:37.600 investors and make sure no, Google's not being left behind. 0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:39.880 We can't afford to be seen as being left behind. 0:52:40.239 --> 0:52:43.239 And then you know, you get the search query that 0:52:43.320 --> 0:52:45.759 the glue on pizza stuff, the go eat rocks thing, 0:52:45.760 --> 0:52:47.279 and of course they've got the egg on their face 0:52:47.320 --> 0:52:51.000 now because and I cannot, for the life of me 0:52:51.120 --> 0:52:55.799 understand why no one internally said, hey, stop, let's let's 0:52:55.840 --> 0:52:57.040 actually because. 0:52:56.800 --> 0:52:59.040 Google is one of the biggest companies in the world 0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:00.520 and it is a nightmare to work in. 0:53:00.800 --> 0:53:01.319 I've heard that. 0:53:01.440 --> 0:53:01.640 Yeah. 0:53:01.680 --> 0:53:04.640 Tony Fidell, who built like Nest and all of that stuff, 0:53:04.680 --> 0:53:07.200 he wrote a book that was all about how he 0:53:07.719 --> 0:53:11.799 knows business and one of the really actually interesting parts 0:53:11.840 --> 0:53:14.200 in it is how his just relationship with Google collapsed 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:17.319 after he was Nest was acquired. They acquire Nest and 0:53:17.360 --> 0:53:20.919 then like immediately, you know, his boss is like, actually, 0:53:20.960 --> 0:53:22.520 I'm not your boss anymore. This guy over here is 0:53:22.560 --> 0:53:24.640 your boss. You're doing this. And then that guy's like, oh, 0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:27.200 actually you're doing this. And it was just constantly changing 0:53:27.200 --> 0:53:31.040 because it's such a big amorphous, right thing. Yeah, And 0:53:31.120 --> 0:53:33.360 like a lot of these companies are that way. Google's 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:35.680 probably the worst at it. Amazon's pretty bad at it. 0:53:35.719 --> 0:53:38.600 Apple is generally pretty good at it. Apple's whole thing 0:53:38.719 --> 0:53:41.480 is just like the culture of the place can sometimes 0:53:41.480 --> 0:53:44.759 get in the way. It's a cultish yeah uh, and 0:53:44.880 --> 0:53:46.719 Google is also a cult. But it's like what if 0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:49.680 we were like a big kind of disorganized there was. 0:53:49.640 --> 0:53:53.640 A run by show regular listeners, and now McKenzie graduate 0:53:54.280 --> 0:53:56.919 sound off as shy Well confuses me, is like Liz 0:53:56.960 --> 0:53:59.840 Reid has been there like decades such chief now, but 0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:02.719 so her boss is probably a ragavan who form ahead 0:54:02.719 --> 0:54:05.239 of ads who also used to run Yahoo. Please listen 0:54:05.320 --> 0:54:08.080 to the episode. Great episode, arguably the weirdest thing I 0:54:08.120 --> 0:54:11.080 ever discovered of them what I see in the era. Anyway, 0:54:12.200 --> 0:54:15.440 It's just it's frustrating as well, because you can they 0:54:15.520 --> 0:54:17.920 must have no shame, They must legitimately just be like 0:54:17.960 --> 0:54:20.960 who gives this ship? Like the only way you are 0:54:21.040 --> 0:54:25.239 able to release products this bad is when you just 0:54:25.560 --> 0:54:27.880 to your point, it was for investors, but now the 0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:31.000 company is for investors. Yeah, because I think that that 0:54:31.200 --> 0:54:32.800 is the rubicon that's being crossed. 0:54:32.840 --> 0:54:36.000 That's why like someone like Panos Ponee who's now at Amazon, 0:54:36.600 --> 0:54:40.600 or Steve Jobs had these like panas Pine used to 0:54:40.680 --> 0:54:44.080 ran the Surface department, ran all of the surface products 0:54:44.120 --> 0:54:45.440 at Microsoft for years. 0:54:45.560 --> 0:54:48.120 One of the most gifted presenters at press events. 0:54:48.280 --> 0:54:50.680 I mean, he knows how to present things favorite and 0:54:50.840 --> 0:54:53.239 he really understands how to build these things, and and 0:54:53.280 --> 0:54:54.960 it like, I think he made a real moment with 0:54:55.000 --> 0:54:57.200 the Surface because he cares about the products. And he's 0:54:57.200 --> 0:54:59.480 now at Amazon and they won't let me talk to him. 0:54:59.480 --> 0:55:02.239 And it's fine, I'm okay with it. But and that's 0:55:02.239 --> 0:55:04.120 because he's going and like, okay, we've got to fix 0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:06.560 Amazon's like product lineup, because. 0:55:06.320 --> 0:55:07.719 It's what if it was good? 0:55:07.840 --> 0:55:10.239 Yeah, what if it was good? And and and you 0:55:10.280 --> 0:55:12.600 see that and but those are the rare guys, right, 0:55:12.680 --> 0:55:15.440 Like the reason these people are so beloved is because 0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:18.520 they do care. Jony I have terrible ideas a lot 0:55:18.520 --> 0:55:20.480 of times. Apparently it was like his idea to put 0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:23.800 the eyes in the vision pro Oh really, yeah. 0:55:23.640 --> 0:55:29.279 It would be lies. Yeah, what if what if the 0:55:29.320 --> 0:55:30.280 watch was a triangle? 0:55:30.400 --> 0:55:30.720 No? 0:55:30.719 --> 0:55:33.560 No, that's the rest of it. 0:55:34.320 --> 0:55:36.520 By the way, I want to see Jony I. Apparently 0:55:36.520 --> 0:55:39.760 Sam Woman really badly wants to make a device with them. Yeah, honestly, 0:55:39.840 --> 0:55:41.719 give them as much money as they want. I will 0:55:41.840 --> 0:55:43.880 see what I want. I want to see the homomobile. 0:55:44.000 --> 0:55:46.279 Ask Gadget that these idiots past. 0:55:46.160 --> 0:55:49.040 Zero ports zero display. 0:55:48.360 --> 0:55:49.320 Call it the hexagon. 0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:51.520 You just think at it. 0:55:51.520 --> 0:55:54.520 It's a new new type of Bluetooth devices. You can 0:55:54.520 --> 0:55:55.640 connect your Bluetooth device. 0:55:56.080 --> 0:56:02.480 I think, oh, ship, it's it looks gorgeous, which is 0:56:03.160 --> 0:56:04.920 I'm fine if things look good, but if they just 0:56:04.960 --> 0:56:06.600 completely useless. 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:08.360 Cards Yeah, no, no, I mean and and But that 0:56:08.480 --> 0:56:10.120 was the thing is like he's kind of like a 0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:13.560 lesser example because he does have some bad ideas. He's 0:56:13.600 --> 0:56:16.840 so about the minimalism and weirdness that it goes to 0:56:17.040 --> 0:56:19.399 like somebody tell him no. But that's why Steve works. 0:56:19.440 --> 0:56:21.200 That's why or Steve Jobs works. I don't know if 0:56:21.200 --> 0:56:24.719 Steve jobs, he's dead. That's why Steve Jobs works. That's 0:56:24.719 --> 0:56:27.880 why that's why Panels work was because they can actually 0:56:27.880 --> 0:56:29.840 they actually care about the products. They actually want to 0:56:29.880 --> 0:56:32.040 make something good. And most of the time now, like 0:56:32.120 --> 0:56:35.200 Tim Cook, I'm sure he cares about the product because 0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:37.160 he is the CEO and he has to make money 0:56:37.200 --> 0:56:39.680 and and and please his investors and stuff. But he 0:56:39.800 --> 0:56:43.680 is a supply chains guy. 0:56:42.320 --> 0:56:44.799 Right, Like I also feel like Apples, laptops have been 0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:46.399 really good, their phones have been they have. 0:56:46.360 --> 0:56:49.040 Gotten They've gotten really good because everybody was like slagging 0:56:49.080 --> 0:56:52.200 on the laptops, being like their garbage. You haven't updated 0:56:52.239 --> 0:56:55.240 the MacBook Air, your most popular device in half a decade, 0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:58.240 do something, and they're like, oh, we we probably should. 0:56:58.440 --> 0:57:00.200 And then but they only really did it and they 0:57:00.239 --> 0:57:02.160 actually had you could put their own process. 0:57:01.880 --> 0:57:03.479 Which is right, and silicons great. 0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:07.640 That's the thing I think I'm my problem as I'm 0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:11.120 discovering in the middle of this conversation, I love this, 0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:12.960 this is good, is that my problem is not with 0:57:13.080 --> 0:57:16.240 the devices, because everyone who buys them, the millions of 0:57:16.240 --> 0:57:18.800 people who give Apple whatever it's three trillion dollars market 0:57:18.880 --> 0:57:21.480 cap or whatever it is right now, are very happy 0:57:21.720 --> 0:57:24.680 with them because they're very good products, and anytime they 0:57:24.720 --> 0:57:27.080 try something that I would like, Like, you know, for example, 0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:30.880 I thought the touch bar was kind of a fun idea. Yes, fun, 0:57:31.080 --> 0:57:33.840 but but it it creters and it's not supported in 0:57:33.840 --> 0:57:35.560 whatever you get this developer thing. But there are no 0:57:35.680 --> 0:57:38.800 options anymore for these types of products, Like your phone 0:57:38.840 --> 0:57:42.040 has to look like that. I'm pointing at Ed's iPhone fifty. 0:57:42.360 --> 0:57:44.120 Your phone has to look like that. And even if 0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:46.360 you go crazy and you make something that I really appreciate, 0:57:46.400 --> 0:57:47.960 like a foldable, which is one of the big reasons 0:57:48.000 --> 0:57:50.040 I still use Android phone because foldibles change the way 0:57:50.040 --> 0:57:52.000 I use phones and they're great. They still have to 0:57:52.120 --> 0:57:57.160 unfold into vaguely something that vaguely reminiscent of that rectangle. 0:57:57.320 --> 0:57:59.000 And a laptop, Oh my god, we just saw a 0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:02.640 Qualcomm you know, processors introduced into like I don't know, 0:58:02.720 --> 0:58:05.320 seventeen new laptops from a bunch of new new companies 0:58:05.480 --> 0:58:09.000 and they all look like the existing Intel powered laptops 0:58:09.000 --> 0:58:10.840 that they've been shipping forever. 0:58:10.800 --> 0:58:14.880 Because in most cases they just something I think. I 0:58:14.880 --> 0:58:18.000 think Microsoft and HP were like the only companies that 0:58:18.320 --> 0:58:19.040 do something. 0:58:18.800 --> 0:58:22.840 New, but even that's not new, like you can go asues. 0:58:23.040 --> 0:58:23.840 God bless them. 0:58:23.880 --> 0:58:26.600 They make these crazy, weird laptops with multiple screens. You 0:58:26.680 --> 0:58:29.320 get these foldable screens, and honestly, those do they're not 0:58:29.480 --> 0:58:32.760 just they're not gimmicks, like they change the way you 0:58:32.800 --> 0:58:34.960 compute it, and in some cases they are very very useful. 0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:37.160 But no one wanted to take a risk. No one 0:58:37.240 --> 0:58:40.000 wanted to take the affordance of all that space freed 0:58:40.080 --> 0:58:42.520 up by this arm based chip and like the reduction 0:58:42.560 --> 0:58:45.120 of fan size and everything. No, they're just everyone's just 0:58:45.240 --> 0:58:48.800 being very conservative because same reason that phone makers only 0:58:48.840 --> 0:58:51.320 make white and black phones in quantity, because that's all 0:58:51.440 --> 0:58:55.120 people buy. We make clicks in a very fetching yellow 0:58:55.120 --> 0:58:57.240 color and that's thirty percent of them or something like that, 0:58:57.280 --> 0:59:02.920 because those people want white a black and I get it, 0:59:02.960 --> 0:59:06.080 but I don't like it. I would encourage people to 0:59:06.440 --> 0:59:09.240 remember that fun can be a reason to consider a 0:59:09.240 --> 0:59:12.560 piece of technology. When did we decide that fun is 0:59:12.560 --> 0:59:15.920 not a priority in our in our like buying, when. 0:59:15.800 --> 0:59:19.960 We decided selling more products matter more than selling cool products? 0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:21.320 And shareholder supremacy? 0:59:21.520 --> 0:59:24.000 Yeah, like the business I agree with you both on 0:59:24.040 --> 0:59:26.120 the business side, but as consumers like when did when 0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:27.919 when did we just go like pick up a phone? 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:35.760 Like I don't know, maybe it's I think, I think 0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:36.240 that is you. 0:59:36.400 --> 0:59:38.160 I don't say this is a bad way. You're right, 0:59:38.440 --> 0:59:40.800 I understand what you feel that way. But it's their 0:59:40.880 --> 0:59:43.440 job to sell these things. It's their job to make 0:59:43.480 --> 0:59:48.280 these things us exactly like the two screen laptop is 0:59:48.280 --> 0:59:51.000 issues and Lenovo so these things are crazy, Like you've 0:59:51.000 --> 0:59:53.160 got the you've got the screen where your keyboard is, 0:59:53.520 --> 0:59:56.640 and then you have another screen. Make have a go 0:59:56.720 --> 0:59:59.479 at it, do a proper national campaign, make some weird 0:59:59.560 --> 1:00:02.520 choices for because that's not a mass device. But guess what, 1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:04.919 there are cool things you can do with it. Many 1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:08.000 people use two screens. Do a big enterprise push, do 1:00:08.040 --> 1:00:11.040 a big business push. When I see the ai IPA ad, 1:00:11.040 --> 1:00:13.800 that should be the double screen one's. And what's weird 1:00:13.880 --> 1:00:17.480 is like Dell, for example, that company was dog shit 1:00:17.600 --> 1:00:19.680 for a long time and now they're pretty good because 1:00:19.680 --> 1:00:23.040 they weren't. Why if we make good good computers, use 1:00:23.080 --> 1:00:25.000 our computers you see, Yeah they dogshit? Well if they 1:00:25.000 --> 1:00:28.320 were good nah. And it's just and I think it's 1:00:28.360 --> 1:00:32.240 this disconnection of the company from the product on both 1:00:32.240 --> 1:00:35.120 a business and just a culture level, like the people 1:00:35.200 --> 1:00:38.280 building things like it's so weird to me that Meta 1:00:38.360 --> 1:00:40.400 made the ray bands because all of the people who 1:00:40.440 --> 1:00:44.800 run Facebook now so it's Mark Zuckerberg. Javier Olivan Coo, 1:00:45.000 --> 1:00:50.080 you've got boz the ultimate growth, All costs, ass whole 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:55.520 every terrorist attacks are justifiable for growth. Literally he said that. Yeah, 1:00:55.560 --> 1:00:58.040 it's really grim thing. Alex Schultz form of growth guy. 1:00:58.080 --> 1:01:00.440 All these are growth people. I'm shocked that there's anyone 1:01:00.480 --> 1:01:03.320 building anything in Facebook other than the Torment Nexus and 1:01:03.360 --> 1:01:04.040 it's plugins. 1:01:04.240 --> 1:01:08.160 Well, that's because Mark said, build you have to build 1:01:08.200 --> 1:01:12.360 me a hardware because nobody wants nobody, like everybody hates 1:01:12.400 --> 1:01:14.760 us because we're terrible at software. You've got to go 1:01:14.800 --> 1:01:16.600 build me some cool hardware so I can get as 1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:17.840 far away from the phones as far. 1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:20.240 So I'm lot for only because you said he could 1:01:20.280 --> 1:01:22.960 build build me a hardware. But I could imagine Mark Zuckerberg, 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:25.440 just like his cold dead eyes looking build. 1:01:25.160 --> 1:01:28.880 Me a hard I assume that is exactly. It just leaves, yeah, 1:01:29.160 --> 1:01:30.800 killed it for me, slams the door. 1:01:31.360 --> 1:01:33.480 Honestly, I think if they brought back the HDC Chacha 1:01:33.520 --> 1:01:36.720 it would do pretty well. Read Chacha right, that was 1:01:36.760 --> 1:01:40.040 a physical quirity keyboard Android phone with a Facebook button 1:01:40.160 --> 1:01:42.400 on it that would let you directly share. 1:01:42.200 --> 1:01:43.040 Tens of them. 1:01:43.120 --> 1:01:45.960 So absolutely it could be the new minimalist phone for 1:01:45.960 --> 1:01:47.919 the Facebook friendly. It could be the boomer phone. 1:01:47.960 --> 1:01:51.040 Oh my god, that's the boomer phone. 1:01:49.960 --> 1:01:53.880 The Great Coal has one with just giant numbers. 1:01:54.480 --> 1:01:57.520 Still around, right, They're still around, owned. 1:01:57.240 --> 1:01:59.760 By like a private equity phone, so not for long yeah, 1:01:59.760 --> 1:02:02.120 I was, that's that's a they'll be sold to a 1:02:02.160 --> 1:02:04.520 barbecue company or so by a private equity. 1:02:04.600 --> 1:02:06.640 Marina will buy it next year. I don't worry about it. 1:02:06.960 --> 1:02:08.920 Great things. What's funny though, is that see yes with 1:02:09.000 --> 1:02:10.560 the grill stuff. So, as some of you may know, 1:02:10.640 --> 1:02:14.200 I make excellent barbecue at home, I do smokers. I 1:02:14.280 --> 1:02:15.880 admit I got in a little bit of trouble at 1:02:15.920 --> 1:02:18.240 ces lustmor Is there because I went up to these people. 1:02:18.240 --> 1:02:21.080 I start asking them grilling questions, not like being an ASO. 1:02:21.080 --> 1:02:23.240 I was like, so, how does this help with the cooking? 1:02:23.600 --> 1:02:23.800 Yeah? 1:02:23.880 --> 1:02:25.200 They're like, well, you see you go on the app 1:02:25.240 --> 1:02:31.960 and you can see recipes. Sure, but the device pause, Uh, 1:02:32.360 --> 1:02:34.360 well you can connect it and wife, I'm like, excellent, 1:02:34.440 --> 1:02:38.400 then what And that's because you can't really innovate that 1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:42.480 anymore other than the combustion thermometer, which is incredible. It's 1:02:42.520 --> 1:02:44.400 made by a guy who made a video a few 1:02:44.440 --> 1:02:46.520 years ago called your Raven is a Liar and it's 1:02:46.560 --> 1:02:49.000 got eight I'm not connected with this. It's just excellent. 1:02:49.040 --> 1:02:50.960 I have to has eight sensors in it so it 1:02:51.000 --> 1:02:54.360 can find the coldest point in your food. What like 1:02:55.280 --> 1:02:58.040 all my hate the various caters use me. I've got 1:02:58.040 --> 1:03:01.200 my detractors on these saying I don't like anything. The 1:03:01.200 --> 1:03:05.600 combustion thermotos excellent, is so good. I finally got my 1:03:05.640 --> 1:03:07.520 b F Ribs down with it. But that's the thing 1:03:07.680 --> 1:03:10.320 that one's a great example of solving an actual problem. 1:03:10.400 --> 1:03:12.520 That most people they use the thermometer, they don't know 1:03:12.520 --> 1:03:15.800 where to put it and they don't know if they're 1:03:15.840 --> 1:03:17.960 in the right place, and they're I personally and deeply 1:03:18.000 --> 1:03:20.600 anxious person so constant anxiety, which is great for a 1:03:20.600 --> 1:03:23.919 twelve hour cook. With this, it works, and it works 1:03:23.920 --> 1:03:25.800 really well, and there's not a bunch of other bullshit. 1:03:25.840 --> 1:03:27.440 It costs like one hundred and sixty nine bucks, so 1:03:27.440 --> 1:03:29.360 it's not cheap, but it solves a problem. 1:03:29.560 --> 1:03:29.880 Yeah. 1:03:30.040 --> 1:03:33.560 Now, it's like you think with all of this money 1:03:33.600 --> 1:03:36.400 in AI or AR or all these things, they solve 1:03:36.840 --> 1:03:40.360 a problem. We've had very similar problems for like ten years. 1:03:41.000 --> 1:03:43.640 I think part of it is a lot of these 1:03:43.680 --> 1:03:47.479 people do not they think they're solving a problem, right right, 1:03:47.480 --> 1:03:50.360 Like I think everybody in this room is probably good. 1:03:50.640 --> 1:03:53.840 We're good writers, right like. We all's part that's part 1:03:53.880 --> 1:03:55.919 of how we make our living. Like when you're doing 1:03:55.920 --> 1:04:00.680 a video, Yeah, you write the script like, we're good, Like, 1:04:00.760 --> 1:04:02.400 this is a skill we have and we can do. 1:04:02.480 --> 1:04:05.200 If somebody sends us a horrible text message, we will 1:04:05.240 --> 1:04:07.600 grow because we don't want to answer it emotionally, but 1:04:07.680 --> 1:04:11.000 we'll still respond, like and we'll respond the hell out 1:04:11.000 --> 1:04:15.040 of it. It will be real written, well written. But these 1:04:15.040 --> 1:04:18.120 people don't value that because they think that's just that's 1:04:18.160 --> 1:04:21.720 a thing they can surmount with AI, right, like, that's 1:04:21.920 --> 1:04:23.919 that is the thing for him. And I run into 1:04:23.920 --> 1:04:25.400 this like I was talking to a woman the other 1:04:25.440 --> 1:04:29.160 day who gave me the first legitimately good use for 1:04:29.240 --> 1:04:32.240 large language models. She had a really bad blind date 1:04:32.640 --> 1:04:35.360 and the guy sent her like a long, long email 1:04:35.800 --> 1:04:38.560 and she's like, read this email for me because I'm 1:04:38.560 --> 1:04:39.640 not going to read it because I don't want to 1:04:39.640 --> 1:04:42.280 go on another date with a guy. Then respond to 1:04:42.320 --> 1:04:45.480 it like politely saying saying no, I don't want to 1:04:45.480 --> 1:04:48.480 see you again. And I was like, you figured it 1:04:48.520 --> 1:04:50.400 out that because like if you did that to me 1:04:50.880 --> 1:04:54.920 at work, I would be furious. Blind date, Yes, go, yep. 1:04:54.880 --> 1:04:57.160 That's no that that you're right, and that is the 1:04:57.480 --> 1:05:00.640 more specifically than the only good example for like it's 1:05:00.640 --> 1:05:03.360 the only good version of that demo that every company 1:05:03.720 --> 1:05:07.760 insists on thinking. It was just like, who send a 1:05:07.800 --> 1:05:09.640 text to my wife and tell her that I'm going 1:05:09.680 --> 1:05:11.800 to be late for dinner? Now make me sound more 1:05:12.000 --> 1:05:14.600 sad about it? No, apologize, just text. 1:05:14.400 --> 1:05:16.240 Your wife you start. 1:05:17.360 --> 1:05:18.520 It's like more effort to do. 1:05:18.720 --> 1:05:19.760 It's ridiculous. 1:05:19.880 --> 1:05:21.280 And how do you even know what good is? You 1:05:21.320 --> 1:05:22.400 can't write right? Yeah? 1:05:22.800 --> 1:05:23.280 Exactly. 1:05:25.120 --> 1:05:27.439 And I must also say, just as a note, there 1:05:27.480 --> 1:05:30.400 are people out there who have like cook disorders and 1:05:30.480 --> 1:05:34.160 learning learning disability called dyspraxia for example. It's physical, but 1:05:34.200 --> 1:05:36.880 there are people with dyslexia. Those are not When I 1:05:36.960 --> 1:05:39.200 say you should be able to write email, just to 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:41.800 be really clear, not the people. I mean, you have 1:05:41.840 --> 1:05:44.760 an individualized problem. And I also must be clear, none 1:05:44.760 --> 1:05:47.160 of the AI companies give a rap fuck about you. 1:05:47.200 --> 1:05:49.160 They do not care that it's not You are not 1:05:49.200 --> 1:05:52.520 the person they are selling accessibility. They are selling to 1:05:52.560 --> 1:05:55.200 someone who does not exist that they made up right, Yeah, 1:05:55.280 --> 1:05:58.040 that is who it is. Because the rewrite stuff is crazy. 1:05:58.080 --> 1:06:01.760 And then the oh, I have these five ingredients in 1:06:01.800 --> 1:06:02.800 my kitchen. 1:06:02.960 --> 1:06:06.800 That's my favorite one. I'm like, ever happened to someone 1:06:07.120 --> 1:06:07.880 you just only have. 1:06:08.080 --> 1:06:10.440 I mean, no, you can't work out what you like 1:06:10.560 --> 1:06:13.640 unless you've got I've gone onion, one piece of ham, 1:06:14.320 --> 1:06:19.520 three knives of a cuman check GPT. Like what is 1:06:19.560 --> 1:06:21.200 the situation where you can't look at it and go 1:06:21.920 --> 1:06:24.320 all right, fine, Like I'll make a sandwich. 1:06:24.440 --> 1:06:28.320 Like because you're you're imagining what they imagine when they're 1:06:28.320 --> 1:06:31.200 doing this is themselves. They're just like looking in the 1:06:31.200 --> 1:06:32.800 mirror and they're being like, Okay, I put on my 1:06:32.840 --> 1:06:33.640 little padic. 1:06:33.440 --> 1:06:35.640 In your vest, I put on my clothes, put on. 1:06:35.520 --> 1:06:38.800 My little bluetooth headset. I haven't looked at my spouse 1:06:38.840 --> 1:06:42.760 in three weeks. I'm gonna have my assistant text them. 1:06:42.800 --> 1:06:46.040 Oh shit, my assistant got laid off. Okay, I really 1:06:46.120 --> 1:06:48.840 wish I had an AI assistant who could text them 1:06:49.080 --> 1:06:52.560 so that they don't leave me, because they probably. 1:06:52.160 --> 1:06:53.680 Because the divorce would be quite messy. 1:06:53.800 --> 1:06:56.000 Yeah, it would be expensive. They will take. 1:06:55.880 --> 1:06:57.520 All of my stock, but I don't care. 1:06:57.920 --> 1:07:01.200 So yeah, and like that, I mean, that is a gross, 1:07:01.240 --> 1:07:06.600 gross exaggeration. Are many of you lovely human being? Yeah, 1:07:06.760 --> 1:07:08.880 there are plenty of people who have lovely relationships there, 1:07:08.880 --> 1:07:10.800 but that is like the thing there. They are they 1:07:10.800 --> 1:07:14.720 are very cynically going after this one group who to 1:07:14.760 --> 1:07:17.080 your point earlier, they're not talking to real people. They're 1:07:17.080 --> 1:07:20.080 not going out to like fucking middle of nowhere rule 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:22.120 Nebraska and being like what do you think of this? 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:25.720 Because they'll be like can it connect to the internet? Yeah, 1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:27.880 it needs the internet to do everything? Cool. I can't 1:07:27.960 --> 1:07:30.240 use it at all because I don't have Internet. 1:07:30.560 --> 1:07:33.680 I wonder and I have a real question here, and like, 1:07:34.080 --> 1:07:37.320 is it that so many problems have already been solved 1:07:37.520 --> 1:07:40.120 that it's harder to find new ones, like or that 1:07:40.160 --> 1:07:42.200 the new ones we find are too niche and too 1:07:42.280 --> 1:07:45.560 narrow and too because you can't dedicate Google's resources to 1:07:45.640 --> 1:07:47.120 solving like a. 1:07:46.720 --> 1:07:51.160 Fixable problem is I would love to just say, fix 1:07:51.240 --> 1:07:53.560 my schedule for the week? Oh, I mean same, right, 1:07:53.680 --> 1:07:55.040 Like that should be easy. 1:07:55.320 --> 1:07:57.680 You shouldn't have been lying about this. I'm calling you 1:07:57.720 --> 1:08:01.080 out Motion, you ossholes, all right, you motherfuckers. I see 1:08:01.080 --> 1:08:05.440 you on Instagram every goddamn day. I've supercharged my adhday 1:08:05.440 --> 1:08:07.560 with motion. Fuck you, it's not how it works. You're 1:08:07.560 --> 1:08:10.160 a bunch of scumbag. I'm so sorry that's a little much, 1:08:10.240 --> 1:08:13.280 but you light I loaded your goddamn product, and it's 1:08:13.280 --> 1:08:15.120 like I'll rearrange your SCHEDULEM like go, and it just 1:08:16.080 --> 1:08:18.280 it like tries to like suggest I do something once 1:08:18.479 --> 1:08:20.519 like that does not work. What the fuck you do? 1:08:20.640 --> 1:08:22.439 And I just don't trust it anymore and it doesn't 1:08:22.439 --> 1:08:24.599 do it. And I cannot find any real users. I'm 1:08:24.640 --> 1:08:27.600 sure they exist, but that's the thing. It's that is 1:08:27.640 --> 1:08:30.080 a problem to be solved. But I also think you're 1:08:30.120 --> 1:08:34.320 right in the there are no big problems, right, I 1:08:34.320 --> 1:08:35.479 feel like no more lands to. 1:08:35.520 --> 1:08:39.400 Conker, tens of thousands of little problems and little niche 1:08:39.520 --> 1:08:41.559 like issues and certainly stuff that I run into every 1:08:41.600 --> 1:08:43.920 day that shouldn't be a problem. And Google Home is 1:08:43.960 --> 1:08:45.960 what you know, over a decade old, and those things 1:08:46.000 --> 1:08:50.120 are just absolutely trash. But like those are little things. 1:08:50.120 --> 1:08:51.880 There's one light in my room doesn't go off with 1:08:51.960 --> 1:08:54.680 the rest of it goes like no one's gonna Those 1:08:54.680 --> 1:08:58.320 are troubleshooting bug fixes. Like we were not doing this 1:08:58.320 --> 1:09:00.639 whole maps thing again. We're not. We're not saying like, hey, 1:09:00.760 --> 1:09:02.040 you know how it's hard to get around the city, 1:09:02.080 --> 1:09:03.200 or you know how you got to print out map 1:09:03.240 --> 1:09:06.479 quest directions, Like no, we drove down every road on 1:09:06.520 --> 1:09:08.800 the planet, and now you have Google Maps. Yeah. Like 1:09:09.400 --> 1:09:12.920 I feel like those big ambitious problems just don't don't 1:09:13.240 --> 1:09:14.599 obviously present themselves. 1:09:15.200 --> 1:09:16.760 We do need to go back to this idea that 1:09:16.760 --> 1:09:18.479 there are no more lands to conquer. It's the thing 1:09:18.479 --> 1:09:22.160 I've talked about before, that there are no more big problems. 1:09:22.640 --> 1:09:24.680 And I think we're finally maybe this is the first 1:09:24.720 --> 1:09:27.240 time in history we're really being made to reckon with 1:09:27.280 --> 1:09:31.320 the fact of how these companies make money because it 1:09:31.680 --> 1:09:34.040 consumers are perhaps dealing with a death by a thousand 1:09:34.120 --> 1:09:37.719 cuts right now. It's the ten ten million little problems 1:09:37.720 --> 1:09:41.000 we face, which are usually a response, sorry, a result 1:09:41.200 --> 1:09:44.840 of technical debt. It's just things built on top of things. 1:09:45.160 --> 1:09:47.320 People I've talked to inside of Google have said this, 1:09:47.600 --> 1:09:49.679 that they just build shit on top of other shit. 1:09:49.880 --> 1:09:53.240 Google Home one of the most evil apps of all times, 1:09:53.760 --> 1:09:57.000 invented by the devil to separate you from your thermostaff 1:09:57.400 --> 1:09:59.439 But that is a result of them being like, Okay, 1:09:59.439 --> 1:10:03.439 we've brought net Tony Foddell. Yeah, genius, genius guy. They've 1:10:03.479 --> 1:10:05.880 got these amazing They've revolutionized the smart I'm not sure 1:10:05.920 --> 1:10:08.559 if any of you remember when the Nest came in. 1:10:08.640 --> 1:10:10.760 That was a huge deal. You had this shitty honeywell 1:10:10.800 --> 1:10:12.800 thing and Nest actually worked and it worked, did exactly 1:10:12.880 --> 1:10:14.680 what you wanted to look. It looked cool, but it 1:10:14.720 --> 1:10:18.719 also very satisfying. And guess what, it worked. It actually worked, 1:10:18.960 --> 1:10:21.800 and they went, Wow. So we just bought Nest and 1:10:21.840 --> 1:10:24.760 they've got these cameras and they've got these thermostats and 1:10:24.760 --> 1:10:28.400 they work really well and the software pretty reliable. People 1:10:28.520 --> 1:10:33.639 like that, But we also have another app that people hate. 1:10:34.840 --> 1:10:37.880 What if we added the thing people liked to the 1:10:38.000 --> 1:10:41.960 thing people hate, then they will love it instead. I 1:10:42.160 --> 1:10:44.880 don't know what happened what actually happens to thing I'm 1:10:44.920 --> 1:10:49.040 just describing, which is someone from Google absorbed Nest and 1:10:49.080 --> 1:10:51.680 then said, you are run by Steve. Now don't know 1:10:51.680 --> 1:10:54.280 if it's or her name was Steve, but you are 1:10:54.320 --> 1:10:56.479 run by this department, and we'll build on top of it, 1:10:56.520 --> 1:10:58.920 will connect all the bits of Nest into this app, 1:10:58.920 --> 1:11:02.800 because we must have everything in one place. When you're 1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:08.160 not really solving problems other than company apps and making 1:11:08.200 --> 1:11:11.000 a feature work rather than a suite of things work. 1:11:11.400 --> 1:11:13.519 This is the result. And I think we're finally reaching 1:11:13.520 --> 1:11:15.920 a point where just there's not enough exciting stuff to 1:11:16.000 --> 1:11:19.680 hide from the fact that most computing experiences are cluttered 1:11:19.760 --> 1:11:22.639 and bad. Well that's many, many times of the day. 1:11:22.760 --> 1:11:25.320 That's for the fixes. Right, Like Google, I think we 1:11:25.320 --> 1:11:28.160 can all agree, is not doing great as far as 1:11:28.200 --> 1:11:30.080 like search goes right. Like you go and you search 1:11:30.160 --> 1:11:33.040 something on Google, it is so much worse. Now I'm 1:11:33.120 --> 1:11:38.800 using Cogy, the paid one. At the moment, it's like 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:42.840 it's interesting. I'm still trying it out, but it doesn't 1:11:42.880 --> 1:11:48.200 feel measurably worse, which is not great for Google. And 1:11:48.560 --> 1:11:50.519 that is something that could be solved and that would 1:11:50.520 --> 1:11:53.120 be a huge boot, right, Like, it is hard to 1:11:53.120 --> 1:11:55.960 find things, and these companies have all decided that they 1:11:55.960 --> 1:11:59.120 are going to solve it by just taking all of 1:11:59.160 --> 1:12:02.840 the content and then may maybe or maybe not accurately 1:12:02.840 --> 1:12:03.840 convey Google. 1:12:03.880 --> 1:12:07.320 I was like, and then you will be able to 1:12:07.400 --> 1:12:11.040 use such to find your UPS tracking number and it 1:12:11.080 --> 1:12:12.519 will tell it when you'll get to tell you, and 1:12:12.520 --> 1:12:13.960 then when you're trying to do a return, it will 1:12:13.960 --> 1:12:18.479 automatically generate that that could happen. Yeah, you know when 1:12:19.479 --> 1:12:20.640 it just movedy. 1:12:20.720 --> 1:12:25.439 Don't worry that. Yeah, there's a lot there are these 1:12:25.520 --> 1:12:29.240 useful things. They're nowhere close to ready and then they 1:12:29.240 --> 1:12:31.400 go and they promise them way too early, and then 1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:34.599 like AI is getting poisoned. There's so much really interesting 1:12:34.640 --> 1:12:36.720 things that could have paid for a while, and there 1:12:36.720 --> 1:12:40.040 has been for a very long time, and instead they're like, 1:12:40.080 --> 1:12:41.880 what if we just make a bunch of money by 1:12:41.920 --> 1:12:45.120 pushing lying bots out into the world and that won't 1:12:45.200 --> 1:12:47.479 backfire in any way, shape or form. And it's like, no, 1:12:47.560 --> 1:12:50.080 it's already backfiring, and it's just gonna get worse. Like Google, 1:12:50.160 --> 1:12:53.559 you shot yourself in the foot. Microsoft with being you 1:12:53.640 --> 1:12:55.760 shot yourself in the foot because you're like, what if 1:12:55.760 --> 1:12:58.360 we release these lying machines at the same time we 1:12:58.400 --> 1:13:02.080 have our garbage search engines that can't see the lies 1:13:02.240 --> 1:13:04.920 and it'll be fine. No, you've just made the web 1:13:05.400 --> 1:13:06.960 like almost impossible to navigate. 1:13:07.120 --> 1:13:09.280 And that one is very much like it was a 1:13:09.280 --> 1:13:11.320 way to sell cloud computer space. It was a way 1:13:11.360 --> 1:13:15.240 to promise the eternal growth machine could keep growing. But 1:13:15.320 --> 1:13:18.599 also like Search, I've done the episode that's a whole thing. 1:13:19.760 --> 1:13:22.320 It just feels like they're not building things for people 1:13:22.600 --> 1:13:25.719 like it. Really like if I worked on Google Search 1:13:25.800 --> 1:13:28.800 and I saw them launch that, I probably wouldn't quit. 1:13:28.840 --> 1:13:31.640 If I had a mortgage. But I would take my 1:13:31.680 --> 1:13:35.160 LinkedIn offline. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be associated with it. 1:13:35.160 --> 1:13:38.880 If you like, yeah, I deface the line vacations, Yeah, 1:13:38.920 --> 1:13:45.080 I would, yeah, vacation. But it's just someone like a 1:13:45.280 --> 1:13:47.439 in a sane society suned up. A shy would have 1:13:47.520 --> 1:13:53.080 been fired immediately, immediate. Liz sent off, Brabagar Ragavan would 1:13:53.080 --> 1:13:54.920 have been sent off. These people would have been fired, 1:13:55.320 --> 1:13:58.160 not just for but they've already not been fired for 1:13:58.160 --> 1:14:02.160 making search bad, but for publicly breaking the probably the 1:14:02.200 --> 1:14:06.559 biggest contribution tech has made ever, like at least in software, and. 1:14:06.560 --> 1:14:08.920 Instead it's like a little hiccup and they're like, don't worry. 1:14:08.960 --> 1:14:10.080 AI is going to fix this. 1:14:10.479 --> 1:14:13.880 Cow just AI is going to fix the AI pro 1:14:14.280 --> 1:14:15.439 how well, you know. 1:14:15.400 --> 1:14:16.920 That's the other part of it. They're like, well, AI 1:14:17.000 --> 1:14:19.439 will fix it because AI just needs to learn more stuff, 1:14:19.479 --> 1:14:21.479 and if it learns more stuff, we'll do that. Okay, 1:14:21.520 --> 1:14:23.080 but didn't you just there was just I think The 1:14:23.080 --> 1:14:25.960 Atlantic wrote a really great story about how they run 1:14:26.000 --> 1:14:29.040 out of stuff to tach the AI on and so 1:14:29.240 --> 1:14:31.439 they're like, what if we just make more machines that 1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:35.160 make a content from AI synthetic content data. 1:14:35.040 --> 1:14:37.080 So if you go back to the PKI episode, this 1:14:37.200 --> 1:14:39.400 is a big problem the synthetic data. And by the way, 1:14:39.680 --> 1:14:41.160 did you know that that will break them? 1:14:41.360 --> 1:14:43.120 Yeah, it's gonna be great. 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:46.680 Habsburg Gai is well. Jaythan Sadowski calls it one of 1:14:46.680 --> 1:14:49.280 the funniest terms ever. But it's so funny as well 1:14:49.320 --> 1:14:52.880 because there are so many times, there's so many things 1:14:52.920 --> 1:14:55.640 to fix, and just using the phone is kind of 1:14:55.640 --> 1:14:59.639 a ball Like it's it's like you have this click 1:14:59.760 --> 1:15:03.800 click keyboard company. I'm surprised that that didn't come out 1:15:03.880 --> 1:15:06.759 like one of the weird like not quite works for Apple, 1:15:06.760 --> 1:15:08.599 but seems to get all their revenue through the Apple store. 1:15:08.640 --> 1:15:10.680 Companies like these, these ones that have just kind of 1:15:10.720 --> 1:15:12.600 bubbled up and hung around in a good way. Like 1:15:12.640 --> 1:15:15.679 it's just solving a very specific knee. 1:15:14.720 --> 1:15:18.360 Right right, very like specific. 1:15:18.840 --> 1:15:20.599 There are plenty of people who don't like clickie, who 1:15:20.640 --> 1:15:22.840 want a clickie keyboard, people who like keyboards, like that's 1:15:22.880 --> 1:15:24.559 a thing that you can connect to a person who 1:15:24.840 --> 1:15:26.240 does not about. 1:15:26.680 --> 1:15:29.639 Kim Kardashian bowl one, right, that is famously a thing 1:15:29.760 --> 1:15:31.200 she loves. 1:15:31.200 --> 1:15:32.720 One of the first things I learned about being on 1:15:32.760 --> 1:15:34.160 the side of the business and I'm not allowed to 1:15:34.200 --> 1:15:38.479 talk about the customers stuff. Give me the permission. 1:15:39.120 --> 1:15:45.760 But yeah, I hear Henry clutching his clicks as his 1:15:45.880 --> 1:15:52.840 last words. Well, I like the device. No, it's it 1:15:52.920 --> 1:15:54.519 sucks as well. And getting back to something of saying 1:15:54.560 --> 1:15:57.519 earlier as well, I want to be excited about this 1:15:57.680 --> 1:16:00.559 stuff I loves. 1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:01.920 Is there anything you're excited about? 1:16:02.000 --> 1:16:04.600 Right? Yeah, that's a good like the steam Deck. The 1:16:04.720 --> 1:16:07.080 next I genuinely believe, and I know the o led 1:16:07.200 --> 1:16:10.360 was the second one. No, that's not what I'm talking about. 1:16:10.560 --> 1:16:14.400 Whenever they do the next steam Deck, I'm so excited 1:16:14.439 --> 1:16:14.760 for that. 1:16:14.800 --> 1:16:15.639 It's gonna be cool. 1:16:15.720 --> 1:16:17.800 I love the Steam Deck. I think it's one of 1:16:17.840 --> 1:16:21.040 the coolest things I've ever used. It is like a 1:16:21.160 --> 1:16:25.000 really great PC gaming console. PC gaming consoles, they've tried 1:16:25.040 --> 1:16:27.519 them a few times that never quite work, but this works. 1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:28.920 It's a bit too big. 1:16:30.240 --> 1:16:32.759 Play isn't great, but yeah, don't. 1:16:32.560 --> 1:16:36.479 Worry about it. It's cool and it's it's customizable in 1:16:36.520 --> 1:16:39.000 a way that you don't generally get with products nowadays, 1:16:39.080 --> 1:16:42.479 and it's just it's fun to use. Like that's that's 1:16:42.560 --> 1:16:43.000 what I got. 1:16:43.040 --> 1:16:43.120 Like. 1:16:43.320 --> 1:16:45.080 I got into the I in Ao, I got into 1:16:45.120 --> 1:16:48.280 these weird like Steam Deck replacements, because there's a place 1:16:48.280 --> 1:16:49.679 where I'm like, oh, something's happening. 1:16:49.800 --> 1:16:51.960 Yeah, game play is kind of immune from this, from 1:16:51.960 --> 1:16:53.960 this thing, because like you can go back to a 1:16:54.040 --> 1:16:57.000 Nintendo Sweat right now. I still love my switch and 1:16:57.520 --> 1:17:00.160 Razor kicks out a new gaming accessory every cees. You've 1:17:00.160 --> 1:17:02.840 got this crazy, ridiculous webcam that like most people don't 1:17:02.840 --> 1:17:05.680 need but streamers love, and the RGB nabled lights and 1:17:05.800 --> 1:17:07.600 stuff like that. There are a lot of gadgets to 1:17:07.600 --> 1:17:09.320 be had in the gaming world. I feel like if 1:17:09.360 --> 1:17:10.240 I were one. 1:17:10.160 --> 1:17:11.759 Beginning with e I'm completely blanking. 1:17:11.840 --> 1:17:17.240 They do the lights, El Gato, they make. 1:17:17.200 --> 1:17:23.280 Really good Dane producer there, it's Eato. They make great 1:17:23.280 --> 1:17:24.080 ship as well. 1:17:23.920 --> 1:17:26.200 And production gear and camera NERD's like, there are still 1:17:26.240 --> 1:17:28.840 gadgets out there for specific niches. 1:17:28.520 --> 1:17:29.360 But it's definitely niche. 1:17:29.760 --> 1:17:33.000 Yeah, they're also little professions, but they're like it's specialized gear. 1:17:33.080 --> 1:17:36.200 It's not really a gadget. There is just yeah, plan, 1:17:36.280 --> 1:17:37.040 I got this weird thing. 1:17:37.680 --> 1:17:41.240 There is something exciting happening where the normalization of photography 1:17:41.280 --> 1:17:43.880 written large is pretty magnificent. The photos I can take 1:17:43.880 --> 1:17:47.080 on my iPhone with portrait mode are not my ds 1:17:47.080 --> 1:17:48.960 A lot. I've got an Alpha three, I got a 1:17:49.080 --> 1:17:51.240 Canon five DS. I've done a lot of photography, got 1:17:51.280 --> 1:17:53.599 some nice glass too. And yeah, when I take them 1:17:53.600 --> 1:17:55.800 out and I get the right lighting, lighting, and I've 1:17:55.920 --> 1:17:57.800 I've made sure I do the settings. 1:17:57.479 --> 1:17:59.840 Right, you feel like you've earned. 1:17:59.320 --> 1:18:02.240 And I nailed and I nailed there. Sure it's great 1:18:02.800 --> 1:18:05.360 ninety eight percent. The other time, though, my phone's in 1:18:05.400 --> 1:18:07.080 my pocket and I can get a really good photo 1:18:07.280 --> 1:18:09.400 and it's easy. I can upload it somewhere, it's easy 1:18:09.439 --> 1:18:11.040 to share with a friend. I could do a little editing. 1:18:11.280 --> 1:18:13.560 I can make a podcast at home in my pajamas 1:18:13.600 --> 1:18:15.479 in Las Vegas. I can have it edited. There are 1:18:15.520 --> 1:18:19.280 actual things that happen that are so good in tech, 1:18:19.800 --> 1:18:23.840 and they see these things and they're like, shit, all right, 1:18:24.560 --> 1:18:27.559 what problems to humans happen? Like I don't I don't know, yah, 1:18:27.560 --> 1:18:29.559 And they go to their assistant and like, what problems 1:18:29.600 --> 1:18:31.280 do you have and they start talking like yeah, sure, 1:18:31.760 --> 1:18:35.040 And it's just it's frustrating because if the tech industry 1:18:35.080 --> 1:18:37.160 would realize this was happening, they actually have a lot 1:18:37.160 --> 1:18:40.840 of good stuff to do. The normalization of whatever professional 1:18:40.840 --> 1:18:43.200 things are. You can record a podcast that sounds really 1:18:43.240 --> 1:18:44.920 good from home now in a way that you couldn't 1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:45.439 four years ago. 1:18:45.840 --> 1:18:49.240 Absolutely. Yeah. Also, I think like some of this is 1:18:49.360 --> 1:18:51.680 just it is. I don't know if you want to 1:18:51.720 --> 1:18:54.840 call it, like I've victimless. Crime is not the word. 1:18:54.840 --> 1:18:57.800 It's like this was, this was, this was inevitable. Right 1:18:58.080 --> 1:19:00.479 when stuff got this good, and when when you got 1:19:00.520 --> 1:19:02.320 able to do those things that you just talked about 1:19:02.360 --> 1:19:04.519 on your phone, you have a production studio in your pocket, 1:19:04.920 --> 1:19:08.840 like we had to get here. There was there's no 1:19:08.880 --> 1:19:11.640 longer any reason for Motorola to make a phone that 1:19:11.760 --> 1:19:13.280 with double action hinges. 1:19:13.640 --> 1:19:16.360 Yeah, we figured it out. And the same thing happened 1:19:16.400 --> 1:19:19.000 in Hollywood, right like they were like, oh, superhero movies 1:19:19.080 --> 1:19:23.200 make money. What if we only did? And that was 1:19:23.200 --> 1:19:25.759 really cool for me, a superhero nerd for two days, 1:19:26.080 --> 1:19:26.439 and then. 1:19:26.320 --> 1:19:31.639 I was like, that's a really good example because they 1:19:31.720 --> 1:19:35.040 saw that superheroes did well. What they didn't realize was 1:19:35.400 --> 1:19:37.880 the movies were good and the actors were good in 1:19:37.920 --> 1:19:40.639 the roles. Iron Man didn't do well because people love 1:19:40.680 --> 1:19:43.240 the concept of Tony Stark. It's because Robert Downey Junior. 1:19:43.240 --> 1:19:45.560 Nobody I f icking knew who Tony Stark was whenever it 1:19:45.680 --> 1:19:46.040 came out. 1:19:47.880 --> 1:19:49.640 I don't know. I Guardian's the Galaxy was good, not 1:19:49.760 --> 1:19:52.160 because of Guardians of the Galaxy, but because the act 1:19:52.240 --> 1:19:55.680 is a very good that's excellent. Scimora like, yeah, I 1:19:55.760 --> 1:19:58.160 forget who plays pee Quill, but the guy from the Office, 1:19:58.520 --> 1:19:59.920 there's gonna be someone who's so pissed and. 1:20:01.080 --> 1:20:01.919 It wasn't incredible. 1:20:02.000 --> 1:20:04.080 The guy from the Office, I'm like a huge guyianso 1:20:04.080 --> 1:20:05.479 the gag because he found have a bunch of comic 1:20:05.600 --> 1:20:08.840 artwork from it. But they saw that, and that's why, Yes, 1:20:08.920 --> 1:20:11.800 there you go. I have the guy from that show 1:20:11.840 --> 1:20:18.120 with person Trace Williams. Yeah, treat Williams. Sorry. So the 1:20:18.240 --> 1:20:20.920 thing is they see that, and then they spilled out 1:20:20.920 --> 1:20:23.320 all these ship ones. They're like, what what don't you 1:20:23.520 --> 1:20:26.720 like about it? They're all three hours long. That's more 1:20:26.800 --> 1:20:28.920 superhero you fucking ingrades. 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:30.519 And just take your slop. 1:20:30.680 --> 1:20:32.560 You don't want your slot, take your slop. And I 1:20:32.600 --> 1:20:34.639 guess that maybe we are in tech slop era. 1:20:34.920 --> 1:20:36.160 We are in tech slop era. 1:20:36.400 --> 1:20:38.360 Oh no, we're actually in tech slop era. That's the 1:20:38.400 --> 1:20:39.760 title of this episode. 1:20:45.680 --> 1:20:48.120 But it is we're in this moment where it's like 1:20:48.640 --> 1:20:50.880 we they are more focused on their bottom line. They're 1:20:50.960 --> 1:20:53.960 more focused on pleasing people who don't care about the 1:20:54.000 --> 1:20:56.840 technology than actually making good technology. And there's there's a 1:20:56.880 --> 1:20:59.080 lot of good examples where that's not the case. We've 1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:01.320 talked about a lot of those here, but a lot 1:21:01.400 --> 1:21:04.320 of it is just garbage. And so for me, that's 1:21:04.320 --> 1:21:06.160 why I go and I mess with these steam deck 1:21:06.200 --> 1:21:09.240 competitors and eat ink devices because that's the areas where 1:21:09.280 --> 1:21:12.519 it feels like, yeah, there is the slop, like right now, 1:21:12.600 --> 1:21:16.160 and tell Panos does something about the Kindle garbage device. 1:21:16.560 --> 1:21:19.000 I do not want one in my house. Sorry to 1:21:19.080 --> 1:21:23.120 everyone at Amazon. Fix it. But these other Onyx books 1:21:23.200 --> 1:21:25.559 is making like really really cool interesting stuff here. It's 1:21:25.640 --> 1:21:28.479 not great yet, but they're trying. And every time, like 1:21:29.479 --> 1:21:32.040 I write a review, then the next thing comes out 1:21:32.040 --> 1:21:34.680 and it changes little and I'm like okay, then I 1:21:34.720 --> 1:21:36.840 feel very powerful, and then I just want to like 1:21:36.920 --> 1:21:39.040 write a hole like here's what I want actually from it, 1:21:39.160 --> 1:21:41.479 and then I'm worried that I'm got too close, I 1:21:41.560 --> 1:21:42.240 got too into it. 1:21:43.040 --> 1:21:45.680 It's funny though, that you're afraid to write that, right, 1:21:45.920 --> 1:21:48.759 just be like fix it, yeah, because like you're afraid 1:21:48.800 --> 1:21:50.840 the company would be mad when the company should. 1:21:51.080 --> 1:21:53.880 Like, yeah, no, then I'm no. I'm more afraid that, 1:21:53.960 --> 1:21:56.240 like I'm doing labor and not getting paid for it. 1:21:56.320 --> 1:21:57.600 I mean, I'm getting paid for it, but like. 1:21:57.800 --> 1:22:00.640 Right, the unpaid consulting check is not. 1:22:00.920 --> 1:22:02.599 Yeah it where's my consulting check now? 1:22:02.760 --> 1:22:04.519 But I wonder about the Actually, that's what I've been 1:22:04.560 --> 1:22:06.559 thinking about kind of weirdly for the past few minutes. 1:22:06.600 --> 1:22:09.200 It's just like, there is still obviously really good reporting 1:22:09.240 --> 1:22:11.760 out there. There are still really good gadget reviews out there, 1:22:11.840 --> 1:22:14.960 there's still people calling companies to account for for the 1:22:15.280 --> 1:22:17.240 the stuff we've been talking about for two hours. But 1:22:17.520 --> 1:22:23.080 I do wonder how much disruption is actually being introduced 1:22:23.240 --> 1:22:27.680 by this kind of like rise of influencer marketing that 1:22:27.800 --> 1:22:29.400 kind of like there's clouds the whole thing, and nobody 1:22:29.439 --> 1:22:31.559 can tell the difference. I found I started to find 1:22:31.600 --> 1:22:34.560 fifteen years or twelve years ago that people could not 1:22:34.880 --> 1:22:38.200 tell the difference between sponsored content and. 1:22:40.439 --> 1:22:42.519 Even when you lead in quite aggressively, yeah. 1:22:42.479 --> 1:22:45.919 Because well, oh, I'm like I tweet and someone replies 1:22:46.200 --> 1:22:48.880 asking a question that I've answered in the original tweet, 1:22:49.040 --> 1:22:51.160 you know, because nobody pays attention. It's it's it's it's 1:22:51.360 --> 1:22:53.640 an attention span problem that I don't I don't know. 1:22:54.680 --> 1:22:56.799 We could spend another two hours talking about the changes 1:22:57.560 --> 1:22:59.320 that would need to happen in the media world to 1:22:59.439 --> 1:23:03.360 actually kind of make it close to good, but I 1:23:03.400 --> 1:23:05.160 don't know that it would make a difference. Yeah, it's 1:23:05.240 --> 1:23:08.720 based on people's willingness to actually listen or ability to listen. 1:23:09.080 --> 1:23:11.200 It's wild how many times we'll put a review up 1:23:11.240 --> 1:23:13.639 and you know, the Vergeon, we do not accept units. 1:23:13.680 --> 1:23:16.680 We send them back after we review them. We've got 1:23:16.880 --> 1:23:20.559 very strict policy. Used to we wouldn't even eat food one. 1:23:22.720 --> 1:23:23.640 And I love it. 1:23:24.120 --> 1:23:27.560 And nowadays, like we get people being like, oh, you 1:23:27.800 --> 1:23:32.559 just spawn con for Apple, and I'm like, rude. I'm 1:23:32.560 --> 1:23:35.120 mainly just offended more than annoyed, because I'm just like, 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:38.200 but it's it's the same thing. There's this assumption that 1:23:38.320 --> 1:23:40.599 everyone has paid to play, and you see that even 1:23:40.600 --> 1:23:42.320 with PR, you get a lot of these younger PR 1:23:42.360 --> 1:23:44.160 people being like, hey, how much can we pay you 1:23:44.280 --> 1:23:47.559 to get our product on your site. I'm like, well, nothing, absolute, yeah, 1:23:51.000 --> 1:23:53.400 And it's it's shockingly common. 1:23:54.080 --> 1:23:56.240 Mark is running, you know, a really great review on 1:23:56.400 --> 1:23:59.160 MKBHD and then we have two weeks of discourse because 1:23:59.200 --> 1:24:01.600 somebody on Twitter with a large audience said, you know, 1:24:01.640 --> 1:24:05.080 I just don't think it's right that can kill a 1:24:05.400 --> 1:24:07.600 can kill a company, you know with this, with this 1:24:07.720 --> 1:24:10.280 thoughtless headline, I'm like, no, that's a review of a 1:24:10.360 --> 1:24:11.280 product that didn't. 1:24:13.040 --> 1:24:16.600 That's how this works. I think that there is a 1:24:16.800 --> 1:24:20.960 problem within the media, that there is a fear that 1:24:21.000 --> 1:24:23.280 if you step outside of the lines in gaming for 1:24:23.439 --> 1:24:26.240 good reason. I was in there before all of that 1:24:26.360 --> 1:24:28.920 horror show happens, and now it's those people you will 1:24:28.920 --> 1:24:32.080 actually get, especially so much worse for a woman. But 1:24:32.240 --> 1:24:36.240 in gadgets there's a fear of losing access. But I 1:24:36.360 --> 1:24:38.519 also think no one wants to say anything that's particularly 1:24:38.600 --> 1:24:41.720 different because I don't know what if they're wrong, And 1:24:41.800 --> 1:24:45.160 the answer is you've been wrong plenty of fucking times. 1:24:45.280 --> 1:24:48.519 Why stop now? Like, no one wants to make the 1:24:48.600 --> 1:24:51.599 step and say this sucks. I mentioned Dave three D earlier, 1:24:51.680 --> 1:24:54.200 great YouTube, Dave two D pardon us. 1:24:55.240 --> 1:24:57.360 I think three D is yeah, ten years from. 1:24:57.280 --> 1:25:01.120 Now there are And he did this thing about about 1:25:01.120 --> 1:25:03.920 the rabbit and about the pin, and he was just saying, 1:25:04.000 --> 1:25:07.080 what are these companies doing like, what is this? I 1:25:07.240 --> 1:25:10.160 looked around, really no one said that there was a 1:25:10.240 --> 1:25:12.360 thing in Bloomberg being like, so, why is it so 1:25:12.520 --> 1:25:14.040 good that you're doing this? It was like a month 1:25:14.120 --> 1:25:17.479 before it came out. It's just completely insane. And I 1:25:17.640 --> 1:25:22.320 understand that when you see the world, everyone's saying AI, 1:25:22.600 --> 1:25:25.000 everyone's saying this is gonna be big. Everyone's saying the 1:25:25.040 --> 1:25:29.800 same thing. It's scary to step out. But also my 1:25:29.920 --> 1:25:32.360 Keith Olbman, have you no shame? But it really is like, 1:25:33.760 --> 1:25:35.840 do you not want to just say what you see? 1:25:36.160 --> 1:25:38.920 If you believe this, I actually am fine with it. 1:25:39.280 --> 1:25:41.960 Please explain yourself because in the case of the rabbit, 1:25:42.080 --> 1:25:43.960 the case of the humane I know the argument is 1:25:44.000 --> 1:25:45.960 are it's just for affluent people. Whatever, It's still a 1:25:46.000 --> 1:25:49.160 lot of money. It's still who knows whether someone didn't 1:25:49.240 --> 1:25:51.479 actually save for the rabbit or save. 1:25:51.760 --> 1:25:52.320 A lot of people. 1:25:53.200 --> 1:25:55.559 Two hundred bucks isn't screw you if you think two 1:25:55.680 --> 1:25:58.439 hundred bucks isn't a lot. If that is your response 1:25:58.560 --> 1:26:02.560 to something as a justification for being shit, that's uncomfortable. 1:26:02.600 --> 1:26:05.240 I always said that wasn't an excuse, especially since it 1:26:05.320 --> 1:26:07.519 was being like compared directly to the to their humane 1:26:07.520 --> 1:26:09.559 and I'm like, well, yeah, it's cost less, but still 1:26:09.560 --> 1:26:09.880 doesn't do it. 1:26:09.920 --> 1:26:13.920 It wasna yeah, yeah, in fact, it did even much less. Yeah, 1:26:14.800 --> 1:26:17.120 and it's you can put an Android phone on it now. 1:26:17.400 --> 1:26:17.560 I know. 1:26:18.000 --> 1:26:20.000 I wanted to do that for my video. It didn't 1:26:20.000 --> 1:26:20.599 come out in the time. 1:26:20.920 --> 1:26:22.840 It's just frustrating that guy who was like, oh, he 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:26.080 killed the product. No, they killed the products. Marcus just 1:26:26.160 --> 1:26:27.840 said what was in front of him, right. 1:26:28.080 --> 1:26:28.280 Yeah. 1:26:28.360 --> 1:26:31.519 I had a friend, Sharie Smith, who would review laptops 1:26:31.560 --> 1:26:33.519 and sometimes she'd give him a bad score, and the 1:26:33.560 --> 1:26:35.200 companies would call and be like, well, wh why did 1:26:35.240 --> 1:26:36.760 you give us a bad store? And you made a 1:26:36.800 --> 1:26:39.439 bad product. Make a good product and I'll give you 1:26:39.520 --> 1:26:40.080 a good score. 1:26:40.280 --> 1:26:44.000 It's that easy just talking about this off air. It's 1:26:44.120 --> 1:26:47.040 just like, no, look, I will tell you why, and 1:26:47.120 --> 1:26:48.960 I'll take you through the process and oh, I've just 1:26:49.080 --> 1:26:50.439 narrated my whole video for you again. 1:26:50.600 --> 1:26:53.439 Just go and if I like it, I'm gonna lose 1:26:53.520 --> 1:26:56.000 my shit over this. I'll be emphatic about how much 1:26:56.000 --> 1:26:58.080 I like it. When I like something, I love it, 1:26:58.479 --> 1:27:00.439 I get into the guts. Val Use, how was I 1:27:00.560 --> 1:27:03.280 really enjoy it? And I wanted to do that again 1:27:03.360 --> 1:27:05.040 with take, like I actually really miss it. 1:27:05.120 --> 1:27:06.680 And I think people What people don't get is that 1:27:06.800 --> 1:27:09.840 that's actually that makes it easier. Like when I run 1:27:09.880 --> 1:27:12.560 a review, that's that's good. Yeah, it's great because I 1:27:12.640 --> 1:27:15.000 get to geek out the product. The product people are happy, 1:27:15.080 --> 1:27:17.240 which like I doesn't know what I do, but they're 1:27:17.240 --> 1:27:19.519 not yelling at me, and the commenters aren't aren't yelling 1:27:19.520 --> 1:27:21.240 at me either. You get the occasional like how much 1:27:21.280 --> 1:27:25.800 they padio for this, and like everyone else is just 1:27:25.880 --> 1:27:27.720 like oh yeah, yea, I was geeking out about this too. 1:27:27.720 --> 1:27:29.479 I'm glad it's not a dumpster fire. 1:27:29.680 --> 1:27:29.880 Yeah. 1:27:30.040 --> 1:27:32.880 Great, cool, it's it's much more of a hassle to 1:27:33.080 --> 1:27:33.760 do a bad review. 1:27:33.960 --> 1:27:36.320 Yeah, a bad review. I mean the Vergion. This year, 1:27:36.360 --> 1:27:39.880 we did three that were like lower than average, and 1:27:39.920 --> 1:27:42.680 people were like, what because we give the rabbit a 1:27:42.720 --> 1:27:44.000 really low score. I believe we give it like a 1:27:44.000 --> 1:27:46.040 three or or four. You know, we give it a 1:27:46.080 --> 1:27:48.040 three because the Humane Pin got a four because it 1:27:48.120 --> 1:27:51.320 did slightly more, and then the vision pro got a 1:27:51.360 --> 1:27:53.559 seven and we all joke now and say it probably 1:27:53.560 --> 1:27:55.880 should have wit a six. But but even then it 1:27:55.960 --> 1:27:58.320 was pretty like like the Vision pro actually still did 1:27:58.439 --> 1:27:59.120 the thing right. 1:27:59.240 --> 1:28:00.880 It was those moments. 1:28:01.520 --> 1:28:04.160 Yeah, but seven should be outlined. I'm just gonna say 1:28:04.240 --> 1:28:05.280 seven should be retired. 1:28:05.439 --> 1:28:10.840 Yeah, but you know, it's very uncommon in our space, 1:28:10.880 --> 1:28:12.120 and a lot of times if you are using the 1:28:12.160 --> 1:28:13.960 garbage products, you don't want to talk about them, and 1:28:14.280 --> 1:28:16.080 then you're using the mediocre products and you're like, how 1:28:16.120 --> 1:28:17.200 do I make that sound interesting? 1:28:17.240 --> 1:28:19.160 Oh my god, yes, now we're just talking. 1:28:20.120 --> 1:28:21.880 You're just over here talking about no no, no no, 1:28:22.080 --> 1:28:22.800 we have a great time. 1:28:22.840 --> 1:28:25.720 Sorry, no no, no, no, I'm hat that's why you're here. 1:28:26.520 --> 1:28:30.600 And so it's funny. I've been asked recently to do 1:28:30.760 --> 1:28:33.200 more review stuff. But that's the thing. It's like, what 1:28:33.360 --> 1:28:36.080 if I hate it? Man, just say you hate it. 1:28:36.200 --> 1:28:39.560 It'll be the most and I can do no. 1:28:39.680 --> 1:28:43.120 But I can absolutely rip something a pop. Also, do 1:28:43.240 --> 1:28:47.000 I want to like if it's like something I truly despise, fine, 1:28:47.080 --> 1:28:51.599 absolutely the injustice inside me. But it's like something that's 1:28:51.640 --> 1:28:54.280 just kind of shit, like a six out of ten 1:28:54.360 --> 1:28:56.000 review that sounds horrib. 1:28:55.960 --> 1:28:59.320 I mean I definitely. When I first I went from 1:28:59.400 --> 1:29:02.880 from one place that had a very kind of strict tone, 1:29:03.160 --> 1:29:04.519 and then I went to a place with a much 1:29:04.600 --> 1:29:07.840 looser tone, which was Gizmoto at that point owned by Gawker. 1:29:08.400 --> 1:29:10.640 And I started there and I was ready to go, 1:29:11.080 --> 1:29:13.840 and I got a product in and I think, I mean, 1:29:14.439 --> 1:29:16.360 I gave it a really bad review, and it was 1:29:16.400 --> 1:29:17.720 mainly because I was just I was like, it was 1:29:17.760 --> 1:29:20.280 not very good, and I was like, I'm gonna dig in. 1:29:20.920 --> 1:29:22.880 And it was the meanest thing I've ever written in 1:29:22.960 --> 1:29:24.800 my life. I even think about it now and I 1:29:24.880 --> 1:29:26.360 cringe a little bit because it was so mean, But 1:29:26.400 --> 1:29:28.560 it was also so fun to write. And you you 1:29:28.680 --> 1:29:30.439 get older and you learn and you temper things, and 1:29:30.520 --> 1:29:32.080 so you're like, well, maybe I don't need to compare 1:29:32.120 --> 1:29:33.800 it to like a baby dropped on its head and 1:29:33.840 --> 1:29:37.360 a target, Like maybe that is not appropriate. 1:29:37.640 --> 1:29:40.599 So we're approaching the end now. Yeah, So for both 1:29:40.640 --> 1:29:43.719 of you, what is actually something you really really really 1:29:43.800 --> 1:29:45.800 love in tech? There you go, everyone on Reddit you 1:29:45.840 --> 1:29:49.720 want something positive? Jeez, you got you mean, like like 1:29:49.880 --> 1:29:51.680 a gadget you just really really love. 1:29:51.800 --> 1:29:54.120 I have a question, like a currently available one or one. 1:29:54.040 --> 1:29:57.720 One that used the history of yea yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:29:58.040 --> 1:29:59.400 even from history. I don't mind. 1:30:00.120 --> 1:30:02.320 I will get I'll blend the two. I'll give you 1:30:02.360 --> 1:30:04.280 where I think a company really got something right and 1:30:04.320 --> 1:30:08.080 it didn't do very well. Motorola, as you know, revived 1:30:08.200 --> 1:30:10.360 the Razor for twenty nineteen. It brought back the Razor 1:30:10.360 --> 1:30:13.040 as a foldable Android phone, and it was pretty cool, 1:30:13.240 --> 1:30:15.360 but I had some stuff wrong with it. One of 1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:17.360 the greatest. Then the next year they brought out the 1:30:17.439 --> 1:30:20.400 Razor of twenty twenty, and I tell you, for somebody 1:30:20.479 --> 1:30:26.040 who is terminally nostalgic, this thing maintained the industrial design 1:30:26.080 --> 1:30:28.000 of one of the most famous phones of all time 1:30:28.920 --> 1:30:33.880 and concealed within it a really quite good Android phone 1:30:34.360 --> 1:30:36.080 with a bad camera because it's made by Motorola, but 1:30:36.120 --> 1:30:38.760 you know it's and it was very fragile in whatever, 1:30:38.840 --> 1:30:41.799 but it was beautiful. I still I very few gadgets 1:30:41.840 --> 1:30:43.519 that I don't just throw in a drawer or return 1:30:43.680 --> 1:30:45.360 or whatever. This one I didn't have the heart. It 1:30:45.479 --> 1:30:47.320 sits there on my shelf in the back. It's out 1:30:47.360 --> 1:30:50.040 of focus in most of my videos, and it's a masterpiece. 1:30:50.760 --> 1:30:53.840 And I love it when a company just absolutely nails it, 1:30:53.960 --> 1:30:55.760 and I hate it when it either doesn't have the 1:30:56.840 --> 1:30:59.679 ability to market it enough or it just doesn't capture 1:30:59.680 --> 1:31:01.639 the public imagination, and I don't think it did very well, 1:31:01.920 --> 1:31:05.600 but I loved it. Was the coolest, one of the 1:31:05.640 --> 1:31:06.559 coolest things I've ever reached. 1:31:06.600 --> 1:31:09.800 That was a cool fucking phone. Yeah, I think me 1:31:10.160 --> 1:31:14.040 right now, it's arc the browser. I recently switched to it. 1:31:14.160 --> 1:31:16.120 I won't shut up about it anywhere I go. So 1:31:16.240 --> 1:31:18.439 you guys have to listen to it too. You're talking 1:31:18.439 --> 1:31:21.160 about all your tabs earlier. I'm also a tab monster, 1:31:21.680 --> 1:31:25.639 and it just works. It better, like collates the stuff 1:31:25.680 --> 1:31:28.799 for me, so like it does the job. I waited 1:31:28.880 --> 1:31:31.080 like two years to use it, and now it's got 1:31:31.120 --> 1:31:32.760 a bunch of AI features that I think are kind 1:31:32.760 --> 1:31:35.280 of stupid, But you ignore the AI features and you 1:31:35.360 --> 1:31:38.080 just focus on the core product and it rules. And 1:31:38.200 --> 1:31:40.200 it just came out. The iPad version came out the 1:31:40.240 --> 1:31:41.040 week we're recording this. 1:31:41.200 --> 1:31:42.960 I've heard that a lot. I've heard a lot of people. 1:31:43.479 --> 1:31:45.040 It's one of those things where you do have to 1:31:45.080 --> 1:31:47.800 take a minute. It's not something immediately like I get it. 1:31:48.400 --> 1:31:49.679 You have to kind of sit with it a second 1:31:49.720 --> 1:31:50.840 because the first time I looked at it was like, 1:31:50.880 --> 1:31:53.639 this is stupid, and immediately all. 1:31:53.680 --> 1:31:55.400 Right, Well, from people find you Michael. 1:31:56.000 --> 1:31:58.160 If people can find me at Captain two Phones mostly 1:31:58.200 --> 1:32:00.559 on Threads, it's Captain the Number two Phones. I'm also 1:32:01.120 --> 1:32:04.000 still on X you know, I have No Choice and 1:32:04.200 --> 1:32:07.400 Instagram and I make your YouTube videos at the Mister Mobile. 1:32:08.120 --> 1:32:11.720 And you can find me at Alex Hcrans. I think 1:32:11.920 --> 1:32:14.800 on threads and Twitter exists, but I don't check it 1:32:14.920 --> 1:32:19.360 very often. It's also Alex Hcrans. And then I'm at 1:32:19.400 --> 1:32:21.599 the Verge. I write and edit at the Verge. I'm 1:32:21.640 --> 1:32:25.840 on the Verge cast every Friday and sometimes on Tuesdays. 1:32:26.560 --> 1:32:29.000 All Right, my name's ed Zychron you can find me 1:32:29.200 --> 1:32:32.879 a w W anyway. Sorry, you've been listening to Better Offline. 1:32:32.920 --> 1:32:36.240 We've been recording this in the beautiful iHeartRadio studios here 1:32:36.360 --> 1:32:39.160 in beautiful New York City. Daniel my producer, Thank you 1:32:39.240 --> 1:32:41.920 so much, Daniel. I'm calling this thing Better off Live. 1:32:42.080 --> 1:32:44.640 Now We're going to do this in multiple cities. I'm 1:32:44.680 --> 1:32:46.759 proud and happy that we did this. Thank you, Michael, 1:32:46.880 --> 1:32:48.560 thank you Alex. It's been one for and thank you 1:32:48.640 --> 1:32:59.040 all for listening. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. 1:32:59.320 --> 1:33:01.760 The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song 1:33:01.840 --> 1:33:04.479 is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music 1:33:04.520 --> 1:33:07.960 and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T 1:33:08.160 --> 1:33:11.800 T O S O W s Ki dot com. 1:33:12.560 --> 1:33:14.800 You can email me at easy at better offline dot 1:33:14.880 --> 1:33:17.120 com or visit better offline dot com to find more 1:33:17.160 --> 1:33:20.479 podcast links and of course, my newsletter. I also really 1:33:20.560 --> 1:33:22.760 recommend you go to chat dot where's youreaed dot at 1:33:22.840 --> 1:33:25.280 to visit the discord, and go to our slash. 1:33:25.040 --> 1:33:26.880 Better Offline to check out our reddit. 1:33:27.680 --> 1:33:30.920 Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a 1:33:30.960 --> 1:33:32.320 production of cool Zone Media. 1:33:32.520 --> 1:33:35.360 For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 1:33:35.400 --> 1:33:38.720 Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 1:33:38.800 --> 1:33:41.200 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.