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Speaker 1: Al Zome Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed Zittron,

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Speaker 2: otherwise known today as Woke Joe Rogan. Good. We are

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Speaker 2: live kind of from the iHeartRadio studios in New York. Today.

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Speaker 2: I am joyed by mister Mobile himself, Michael Fisher, and

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Speaker 2: of course Alex Krantz from The Verge.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming, thanks for having to be here,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having us.

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Speaker 2: So today is about where the magic's gone in tech.

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Speaker 2: Got two great tech journalists with me and I myself

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Speaker 2: have done some writing on tech, I guess and the

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Speaker 2: Big Thing. And this kind of started actually from a

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Speaker 2: conversation between you and me, Michael, where it was about

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Speaker 2: kind of like what are we even looking at in

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Speaker 2: tech anymore? Why things aren't fun? Like what like it

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Speaker 2: feels like we've stopped getting the most fun thing I

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Speaker 2: have found is I'm actually gonna pull it out in

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Speaker 2: my pocket and there's no video, so you're never gonna know.

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Speaker 2: Like this anchor charge, it's like thirty bugs. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's a sick no. Like battery packs are cool, but

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Speaker 2: otherwise everything that comes out that's meant to be exciting,

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Speaker 2: like the Humane pin and the Rabbit are one which

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Speaker 2: obviously we're bad from the beginning. Sorry anyone who thought otherwise,

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Speaker 2: you were wrong, And like the Daylight tablet, which will

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Speaker 2: get to of course, these things just have turned out

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Speaker 2: to be just not even fun, not you can be

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Speaker 2: kind of shitty, but fun, like there's something you can

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Speaker 2: look at. Even some of the great tech failures, like

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Speaker 2: that weird frame that you could upload things to from

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Speaker 2: like twenty to fifteen, like a few of these weird

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Speaker 2: Indiegogo things, there was a cute weirdness to it, but

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Speaker 2: now it's just almost just nothing.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of reasons for that.

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Speaker 4: There are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like there are like a lot of

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Speaker 1: compounding problems that have like that have deposited us here today.

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Speaker 1: But I will say that I think that there are

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Speaker 1: some of those examples you gave are still could have

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Speaker 1: been fun. I think I think Rabbit is still trying

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Speaker 1: to like salvage the situation and make it, say any work.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, and I think you know, it took

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Speaker 1: it took a giant swing, which was this this thing

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Speaker 1: that we've learned I think you shouldn't do at this point,

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Speaker 1: which is try to replace the smartphone call the smartphone

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Speaker 1: the enemy and say we're going to replace it with

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Speaker 1: this wearable thing. And when you deliver a product that's

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Speaker 1: so undercooked, I think that's the problem, Like when I

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Speaker 1: undercook can't even get there.

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Speaker 3: And I think also just everybody's in this big quest

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Speaker 3: to beat the smartphone, right, Like everybody wants to make

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Speaker 3: the next smartphone so they can make all the money

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Speaker 3: the way Apple did, and what is it? And so

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Speaker 3: they're all like, throw it at the wall? Is this it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Even like you, I mean, I think you're right when

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Speaker 3: you say, like the rabbit and you look at these

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Speaker 3: AI devices and stuff where there feels like there's sort

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Speaker 3: of a mus cynicism. Yeah, to these products where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you're just out here to make money. There's not like

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Speaker 3: something fun and exciting here. Like the Daylight Computer is

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Speaker 3: a good example. They're like, yeah, we're going to you know,

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Speaker 3: make computing black and.

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Speaker 2: White, just just for the listeners. You might not know

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Speaker 2: about it. Can you describe the day loge?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Daylight Computer.

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Speaker 1: You just reviewed it, right, Yeah, I just came off

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Speaker 1: the back of it. Yeah. It's like I think I

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Speaker 1: called it an ordinary Android tablet with an extraordinary display,

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Speaker 1: because the special thing about it is the display. And

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Speaker 1: David Pierce said, you know, yeah, like he thinks, uh,

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Speaker 1: this is this is a display company. This isn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: a consumer product.

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Speaker 2: But what is it though?

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Speaker 3: It's like an LCD display that only does black and white.

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Speaker 1: Correct, And the special thing is that it has a

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Speaker 1: fast refresh rate that makes it very smooth. So when

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Speaker 1: you're manipulating it, it's like using a black It's like

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Speaker 1: using an iPad from the Fallout world, yeah right, where

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Speaker 1: it's also is Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like using an e ink Android tablet

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Speaker 3: if the e ink could go fast, right.

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Speaker 2: That's why I was excited about it. So what's bad

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Speaker 2: about it?

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Speaker 3: I mean the problem for me, fundamentally, I've used a

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Speaker 3: lot of Android e Ink tablets. I'm a nerd about

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Speaker 3: these things, and fundamentally the problem is they're built for

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Speaker 3: black and white, which is cool. The Internet isn't. Oh

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Speaker 3: so you're like, Okay, I'm going to download this app,

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Speaker 3: I can't see any of the buttons.

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Speaker 2: Cool, So they just did not prepare for people use

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Speaker 2: the device.

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Speaker 3: You can like, I mean.

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Speaker 1: That's true of the of those e readers. No, that

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Speaker 1: that is true, but I think daylight. Like to their credit,

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Speaker 1: they have come out and said, look, we don't want color.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's this very granola very like if you

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Speaker 1: watch the coverage of the.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen I've seen the Instagram ads.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and like that is their pitch, that is

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Speaker 1: their whole thing is like, your screen is too colorful

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Speaker 1: and too addictive, and you should you should be able

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Speaker 1: to use your tablet outside in in daylight, and it

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Speaker 1: should function as you expect. You should be able to

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Speaker 1: do whatever you want. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: ideally you're not, as you know, drawn into this vortex

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Speaker 1: of of of TikTok end list feeds because you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to watch YouTube on it. You do

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Speaker 1: someone the reading delivery, right, which which is a whole

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Speaker 1: industry now, isn't it right?

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Speaker 3: Like the light phone is another example where people are

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Speaker 3: just like, what if we took all the cool capabilities

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Speaker 3: of your phone and then like turned off a bunch

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen the ads for that, that weird phone

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Speaker 2: where it's like, oh, we we block out all the

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Speaker 2: things you use your phone for, so the thing that

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Speaker 2: you wouldn't use your phone. It's just very confusing, and

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Speaker 2: I love posting. I love looking at my phone ninety

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Speaker 2: two hours a way.

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Speaker 3: You are an online.

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Speaker 2: I will die if I don't go online. But also

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Speaker 2: it doesn't feel like any of these companies. Same thing

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Speaker 2: with Rabbit, same thing with Daylight. It doesn't feel like

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Speaker 2: they've actually talked to a person, like an actual person,

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Speaker 2: like a normal person, someone who uses Facebook and Instagram

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Speaker 2: to talk to their friends or get a I spam

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Speaker 2: and someone who has like a regular job, someone who

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Speaker 2: isn't in tech at all, and just said what do

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Speaker 2: you think? And then when that person said, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: why do I have this? What do I do? They

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Speaker 2: should have gone, oh shit, I shouldn't have released it.

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Speaker 2: But it doesn't. It doesn't feel what Rabbit I think

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Speaker 2: is a separate thing because I think they're fully cynical.

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Speaker 2: I think that they just.

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Speaker 1: Don't give a shit. It has to be held out separately.

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Speaker 2: Out Daylight. It almost feels like they just focus the

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Speaker 2: simple people who chose to Well, but you were you

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Speaker 2: said there was there was something cynical about it, So yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean I think for me, like I said, I've

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Speaker 3: used a lot of similar tablets to this. So when

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Speaker 3: they reached out and were like, hey, we have this device.

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Speaker 3: It's it's electronic paper. And they're very careful of saying

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Speaker 3: electronic paper, not eat ink, because that's like an actual

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Speaker 3: branded thing and eat ink will descend from the heavens

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Speaker 3: to just slap you down if you use it inappropriately.

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Speaker 3: And they said they're eat ink, and they they said

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Speaker 3: they were electronic paper, really cool refresh rate, and they

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Speaker 3: wanted to like do this whole daylight thing and the

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Speaker 3: warm light stuff, and I thought all of it. I

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Speaker 3: think the warm light stuff is very unproven science. That

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Speaker 3: is just what is where It's like, the idea is

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Speaker 3: if you look at an orange light before you go

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Speaker 3: to bed, that'll make you sleepy. Blue light wakes you

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Speaker 3: up and makes you just wasn't the case.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was bad timing for daylight for sure because

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Speaker 1: required came out with that thing. It's like, yeah, like,

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Speaker 1: all these studies are not conclusive and also some new

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Speaker 1: ones have proven very cool. Yeah, It's just.

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Speaker 3: Like and so that's also right, it's eight hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: That's the problem for me. So here's the thing I

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Speaker 1: don't think the CEO is I had some time to

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Speaker 1: talk to the CEO and I in a vacuum in absentia.

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Speaker 1: I kind of was like, this guy's got to be

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Speaker 1: a Charlatan, right, he's got to be gone for a

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Speaker 1: cash grab.

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Speaker 2: What he is?

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Speaker 1: What my takeaway was is that no, he's he's a

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Speaker 1: he's a display nerd who really cares about making this

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Speaker 1: particular kind.

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Speaker 2: Of display tex.

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Speaker 1: He looks and the display is cool, and they like,

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Speaker 1: they didn't take an off the shelf component from Sharp,

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Speaker 1: which I also thought, and stuff it into a white

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Speaker 1: label Android tablet, which is what I thought they did.

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Speaker 3: Like this is that it's Android, but the hardware is

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Speaker 3: they built?

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Speaker 2: But did they make an effort with the software?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? The thing is that the devices they see that

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's early. And this is the thing

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Speaker 1: we complain about with almost every product where it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well this is just Niagara Lundren top of Android. But

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Speaker 1: we have all these ideas. I'm like, great delivery ideas

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Speaker 1: before I have a press like, aren't you It's very frustrating.

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Speaker 2: I wish I could do that with the bank. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've got the money this month, However, right I will

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Speaker 2: one day and I'll have lots of it. Well, I

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Speaker 2: mean that's how I'm not sure.

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Speaker 3: That's it called a credit card. And then the understanding is, okay,

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Speaker 3: you have to pay extra because you borrowed it. Whereas

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Speaker 3: these companies are like, hey, give us your money. We're

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Speaker 3: gonna give you a product. It's not going to be

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Speaker 3: a good product, but if you just wait, and I'm like, no,

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Speaker 3: you can pay me bad product, pay me to wait,

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Speaker 3: pay me to wait, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the uncertain thing for me is like, it's

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Speaker 1: the price. The thing that for Daylight, if Daylight was

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Speaker 1: down at at you know, two hundred and three hundred bucks,

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Speaker 1: three hundred four hundred, put that in a premium and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, look, okay, it's an intentional product for a

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Speaker 1: very specific market and and that's that's great. So I

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Speaker 1: hit them on that a lot. I was like, you've

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Speaker 1: got to make me understand why this is seven hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty nine dollars and to hear them tell it,

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Speaker 1: it's the work that went into the display, plus the

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Speaker 1: tiny you know, minimum water quantities they have to they

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Speaker 1: have to hit.

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Speaker 3: So it's like so it's basically, bitch, you gotta eat.

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Speaker 1: No. No, it's like to make it, maybe gonna make

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Speaker 1: a big margin on each tablet. That's the thing they're

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Speaker 1: like they are No, I assume that at least with

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Speaker 1: that from the factory.

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Speaker 3: They just put in a lot of effort. And these

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Speaker 3: things are much more expensive to make than they have,

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Speaker 3: which one.

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Speaker 1: I can see that side of it now, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: on clicked, like I've gotten some experience with that, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I get it. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's true. I'm not. I don't know enough to know. No,

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Speaker 1: eight hundred dollars, Yeah, that's right. Yeah, today the click

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Speaker 1: i phone is now a thousand dollars accessory.

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Speaker 2: Listeners at home. So Michael is using this case on

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Speaker 2: his on his iPhone. It's called a click size. It

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Speaker 2: is clicks for iPhone phone and this allows you to

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Speaker 2: type with your with your figure a nice click.

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Speaker 3: To it, got a little keyboard.

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Speaker 2: What does that cost?

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Speaker 1: This is one twenty nine or excuse me, one thirty

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Speaker 1: nine or one like it? I do like it. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not just saying that because I am I so founder.

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Speaker 1: I'm very biased.

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Speaker 2: You can't trust me, God damn it. So the thing

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Speaker 2: is with something like that is it actually feels useful

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Speaker 2: because people type stuff on their phone. Sometimes I'm just

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Speaker 2: like fucking around with that. Actually that's the word thing,

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Speaker 2: it's they feel like less fun things to fuck around

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Speaker 2: with these days, and that's something even like CS for

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Speaker 2: years has been like this. Everything. I'm sure next year

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Speaker 2: is just gonna be all AI again, but even the

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Speaker 2: years before it felt like they were less fun things.

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Speaker 2: There's the kind of exterior ring of security camera, toilet

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Speaker 2: light and dildo companies or from China, and they're raasally

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Speaker 2: they're called like the Shengzong Chang zong Dong romance company

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Speaker 2: and they sell eleven different products, many batteries, and they're

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Speaker 2: all the very nice people. Then you've got like the

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Speaker 2: cat litter company that always turns up. You've got the

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Speaker 2: Wi Fi grail company that always turns in, that one

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Speaker 2: folding machine, the one folding machine that will never launch.

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Speaker 2: But even then the folding machine are kind of like that.

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Speaker 2: It's like a folksy dumb product that will never launch.

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Speaker 2: But otherwise it's like where's the magic, Like when was

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Speaker 2: the last time we had something fun?

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Speaker 3: Even I mean, i CES is a weird one because

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Speaker 3: it is so I think most of the people coming

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Speaker 3: there are coming to sell things in American markets, right,

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Speaker 3: and if you don't need that, if you sell online,

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Speaker 3: you don't necessarily need to go to cees and have

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Speaker 3: that big presence. Because you don't. You can just sell

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Speaker 3: directly to the consumer. You can just skip it. And

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Speaker 3: we see that with stuff like like the stuff I'm

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Speaker 3: really into right now is I in Ao I think

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Speaker 3: is how you say it, which is like a gaming console.

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Speaker 1: It looks like a giant sidekick, right, yeah.

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Speaker 3: About one. It's called the I in Ao. It's a

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Speaker 3: y A n eo. I'm absolutely malacring the name A

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Speaker 3: y A n eo. The flip ds and this thing

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Speaker 3: is the dumbest, most fun thing I've used in a while.

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Speaker 3: It's like a steam Deck. But if the steam Deck

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Speaker 3: ran on Windows and therefore sucked.

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Speaker 2: Two screens, why do you enjoy it?

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Speaker 3: I think I like it because it's different. It's doing

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Speaker 3: something new, and there's like like, Okay, the software is garbage,

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Speaker 3: but that's kind of their fault because it's hard to

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Speaker 3: do software, and like you shouldn't launch things with garbage software.

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Speaker 3: Steam Deck it's fine, but it's also cool because like

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Speaker 3: there's like it's just got a good display. There's like

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Speaker 3: a really good thought behind it, and it's like, you

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Speaker 3: know what, there's gonna be people who really really like

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Speaker 3: this thing and are going to have fun with it,

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Speaker 3: and it's mainly gonna be nerds who want to play

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Speaker 3: Nintendo DS ROMs. Yeah, and I'm like, yes, cool, I want.

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Speaker 2: That feels like the first weird thing I've heard of

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Speaker 2: in it while other than like the Rabbit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the ones that become a success

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Speaker 1: are like almost unavoidably not as weird. Like the thing

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Speaker 1: that jumps to my mind was, what's the last time

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Speaker 1: I was really impressed by something that I kept after

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Speaker 1: the review period or bought after the review period. It

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Speaker 1: was the Meta ray bands. It's like, wow, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: They stuff really good speakers yeah, and a really and

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Speaker 1: a pretty good camera into sunglasses and a bunch of

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Speaker 1: AI stuff that you really shouldn't talk about, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's it's a really great accessory I've heard good.

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Speaker 3: Thing because they just they just work like on the

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Speaker 3: train a lot, yeah, and it just sounds good and

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Speaker 3: like everybody in the train car gets to listen to

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Speaker 3: my music with me. But then I sound really good

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Speaker 3: on phone call, so I don't.

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Speaker 2: Care how you can use some vocals. Yeah, so that's

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Speaker 2: vergin on useful.

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Speaker 3: It is absolutely extremely useful. Except for Meta.

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Speaker 2: They make that.

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Speaker 3: They made it because they have like Meta has this

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Speaker 3: big vision for AR and VR, right, so they have

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Speaker 3: they have the whole the quest and all of that junk,

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Speaker 3: and then they were like, well, we need to do

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Speaker 3: AR stuff and we need to start normalizing what AR

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Speaker 3: is going to look like. So we're going to start with.

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Speaker 2: These glasses so you can't see anything in them, you can't.

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Speaker 3: Know and so it's all audio. Bos was doing this

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Speaker 3: a couple of years ago. There's a few people who

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Speaker 3: have done this, and it's like, you know, when BOS

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Speaker 3: did it was a stupid concept and even the first

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Speaker 3: set of ray bands were really stupid. And then this

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Speaker 3: time the quality was just good enough where you're like, okay,

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Speaker 3: I get it now. How much of those they're like

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Speaker 3: two fifty or something?

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Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, between two and three hundred and something.

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Speaker 3: They're fairly. It's one of those things where you're like,

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Speaker 3: I just got paid, I don't got any bills, do

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Speaker 3: anytime soon, Let's do.

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Speaker 1: This, And they actually accomplished something that like a lot

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Speaker 1: of these AI companies that we've touched on earlier, have

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Speaker 1: tried to do and sort of failed to do, which

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Speaker 1: is get you out of your phone. So for me,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, I'm a stupid influencer videot like

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Speaker 1: thirty percent of the time it's just bad. But like

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Speaker 1: I'm firing up the camera, right, That's why I got

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Speaker 1: my phone out, just to use the camera for something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and when you have a camera built into your glasses,

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Speaker 1: you can just literally hit a button on it.

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Speaker 2: And how the lens that you're looking at, well the

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Speaker 2: human and I is thirty five millimere right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have no I don't know what. I don't

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Speaker 1: remember what the spect what the perspective is.

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Speaker 3: Like, it's weird because it's off because.

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Speaker 2: Of New York Times. He does lovely videos of him

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Speaker 2: cooking using them. Oh Tony, he's got his berman's mount

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00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 2: and dog. But Bruno love Yeah, and he'll be like

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00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 2: talking to Bruno and like making stuff. He's got his name.

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Speaker 2: That's fun. I actually really enjoy that stuff. It feels

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Speaker 2: bad the meta is doing it though, like the idea,

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Speaker 2: but also how it feels also weird that meta made

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Speaker 2: something good. I'm just very confused because all right. The

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Speaker 2: VR stuff with Quest, I know we're like ment to

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Speaker 2: like most people like, oh Quest is good. It isn't good.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm very sorry. Casey, my very close friend,

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Speaker 2: Casey's gonna hear it's gonna get pissed off and get

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00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 2: a signal message the Quest's fine. But even the new one,

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Speaker 2: I still get sick. Yeah, I still feel weird. It

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Speaker 2: still doesn't go on my face.

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Speaker 3: Right. That's why they did the glasses is because they

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Speaker 3: know there's there's.

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Speaker 2: Kind of glasses.

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Speaker 3: I'm coming back to the glasses because they like they

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Speaker 3: did they did these headsets and everybody was like, oh wait,

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Speaker 3: this is not the future for AR and VR. People

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Speaker 3: look stupid. Like I saw my nephew come Like one day,

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Speaker 3: I went over and I'm visiting. I'm saying hi to everybody.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, where is he And they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: he's upstairs. And I go upstairs and there's just a

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Speaker 3: little kid all alone in a room, like wagging the

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Speaker 3: sticks around. And that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

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Speaker 3: Like I wanted to give like I wanted to give

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Speaker 3: him a wedgie, right, And I'm like, that's that's a

365
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Speaker 3: bad response. For an aunt, just like put my hand

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Speaker 3: in my pocket and walk away. And and but that's

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Speaker 3: the way it is for everybody. And so they're like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we got to do these glasses because if we do

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Speaker 3: these glasses, then that won't be as dumb and stupid looking.

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Speaker 1: And I should just give a shout out to a

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Speaker 1: company that not a lot of people remember, and I

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00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,320
Speaker 1: bet you do, but we remember Focals by North.

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Speaker 2: I wonder the name. I don't remember what they did.

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Speaker 1: They shipped a pair of glasses that were very like

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Speaker 1: they were a little chunk here. They were obviously something

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Speaker 1: a little a little off about these glasses. Horrible display,

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Speaker 1: but no, but they had a display, and when you

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Speaker 1: put them on your face, all of a sudden, what

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00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,800
Speaker 1: materialized in your vision was a little trom like heads

380
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Speaker 1: up display and you could see your text messages from

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Speaker 1: your phone. You could get drive driving directions, term by

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Speaker 1: turn directions, little points of interest things, and it was

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Speaker 1: like it was appearing in your eyeball. Of course, it

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Speaker 1: was very strange because when you're talking to somebody you'd

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Speaker 1: see it. They'd look kind of above your eyebrow, and

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Speaker 1: then you'd be like, are you are you checking your

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Speaker 1: messages while.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking to you.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, that's where you get the sunglass version, right.

390
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Speaker 1: But like, this was a great idea. The technology was

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Speaker 1: very fascinating, and then, as often happens, they were purchased

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Speaker 1: by Google, and Google either mismanaged it or killed it, and.

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Speaker 2: It killed it probably both.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just brutal, I mean, and that was the

395
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Speaker 1: last time I felt like we were on the cusp

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Speaker 1: of maybe the next chapter of Personal Mobile Computer.

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Speaker 2: I yeah, Google Glass look cool. I never got to

398
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Speaker 2: play with it. And I think Robert Scobel has done

399
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 2: a lot of bad things, But that weird picture of

400
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Speaker 2: him in the shower I genuinely of the show. So

401
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 2: list there's a really disgusting fellow called Robert Scobull, famous

402
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 2: for reasons I'm not actually sure. He kisses up to

403
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,399
Speaker 2: Elon Musk now wants to marry his tesla. I believe

404
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 2: I haven't really checked that fact and its opinions, so

405
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,960
Speaker 2: you can't sue me. So Robert Scobel took a picture

406
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Speaker 2: wearing his Google Glass while what looks like screaming in

407
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Speaker 2: the shower, and I mean, just.

408
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 3: A lot of people talked about that photo.

409
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Speaker 2: It was very the inverse of pornography. But that moment

410
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 2: was really unfortunate because Google Glass was too expensive and

411
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 2: all that, and I don't think anyone should have ever

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Speaker 2: looked at it as the future arriving that day. But

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Speaker 2: the idea of a heads up displays cool. I think

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Speaker 2: heads up displays a cool think. Yeah, I don't agree

415
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Speaker 2: with thee. We need to get away from our phone's thing.

416
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,920
Speaker 2: What we need is better society so that it's worth

417
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Speaker 2: looking away. Sam, that's the actual This is an escapism.

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00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 2: We made a tool to escape from the world. It

419
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 2: rules kind of ripping off Paris marks from tech one

420
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 2: save us there. He made a similar point about the

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Speaker 2: vision pro to distract us from real life, which is

422
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,640
Speaker 2: a bit much, but he's not totally off Boom. It's

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Speaker 2: weird like heads up displays feel like a future. I

424
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Speaker 2: don't know if it's the big capital T, but that's

425
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,199
Speaker 2: a way that they could be useful while getting us

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Speaker 2: away from constantly staring. Because there are times where I'd

427
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,440
Speaker 2: like to walk through New York City and just listen

428
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 2: to music but also know where I'm going because I

429
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Speaker 2: don't ever and heads up display would be good. But

430
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Speaker 2: it's almost like they shouldn't be trying for fifteen years,

431
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Speaker 2: that they need to get to a completely different level

432
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Speaker 2: of chip plus display plus everything else and then do

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Speaker 2: it really well.

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Speaker 3: It's just because they are all so desperate to be

435
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 3: the next iPhone hyper like, like I love you know,

436
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 3: I think everybody in this room currently has an iPhone.

437
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 3: They're they're they're very good devices. Yeah, and everybody wants

438
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 3: to be the next one because then they get the

439
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 3: thirty percent lock in they get. They just all just

440
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 3: cultural cachet. Yeah, it just makes you the next big thing.

441
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 3: And so Meta has been doing that. Google has been

442
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 3: doing that poorly. Uh, Samsung, you know a lot of

443
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 3: these people do it, and they all fail at it

444
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,679
Speaker 3: because the text is not there yet, right, Like glasses,

445
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,719
Speaker 3: You're not gonna get glasses until you have actually good displays.

446
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 3: They can also pass.

447
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 2: Through and can turn off and make way with you.

448
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 3: And most importantly, that you don't look stupid wearing yes, Like,

449
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 3: if I want to give you a widge Weggie, you've

450
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 3: you've lost the plot. And I'm I'm liberal with the Wedgies.

451
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 3: So actually it's like a fact room the urge.

452
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 2: So with my song glasses on the entire time. You

453
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 2: would have to know, but I would, Well, then there

454
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 2: is half they take them off by the second pat.

455
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 1: You gonna get some of the details of the flames on.

456
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 3: Them, well guy Fieri moment.

457
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 2: So it feels like augmented reality is at least where

458
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 2: there could be fun now. Yeah, but it feels like

459
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,679
Speaker 2: it's not twenty seven twenty fifteen when they had that

460
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 2: weird burst of them. It feels like they've all stepped

461
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 2: back for it, which sucks because it feels like we

462
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 2: actually need R and D money there.

463
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: Ye, yes, because I feel like that's the thing. The

464
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: point you were just making, Alex, is that the technology

465
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: needs to catch up to the aspiration, right, And we've

466
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: seen a lot of the stemo and again the most

467
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,239
Speaker 1: promising one got bought and killed. Yeah, and I've never

468
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: seen anything get close.

469
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I think the ray bands are close,

470
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 3: and they're planning apparently to put a lot more like

471
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 3: invest a lot more there, right Like they just this

472
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 3: week I think did a whole reorg the week we're

473
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 3: recording this, did a whole reorg of this of the

474
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 3: meta division. And so they're like Oculus, you go over

475
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 3: here and you go over like an under an ad

476
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,199
Speaker 3: sales guy who I don't remember the name, and then

477
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 3: the ray bands. They're like, Okay, this is like this

478
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 3: is our focus. They've they've got plans for some glasses

479
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 3: the next couple of years that are like much more involved.

480
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 3: We've heard like Google bought Vocal and we haven't heard

481
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 3: anything there and so it could be dead. But also

482
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 3: like everybody's talking about AR right now, so it feels

483
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 3: like maybe they're coming back.

484
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 2: I think that. So I had an episode about this

485
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 2: rock calm bubble. Yeah, well, I think what they're doing

486
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 2: right now is freaking out because they don't have and

487
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 2: they all want to be the next iPhone. But what

488
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,400
Speaker 2: they realize is there is no next iPhone right now. Yep,

489
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 2: there is no next Google or Facebook or anything.

490
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 3: So they're chasing AI.

491
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 2: That's the chasing AI. But come on, come on.

492
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you've done a very good job

493
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: in the past three weeks, so demonstrating on this very

494
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: show why AI is not as exciting.

495
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 2: But that's a good point to bring up.

496
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: Though.

497
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 2: How do you two feel about AI?

498
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: Well, I feel I'll say this details with what you

499
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 1: were just saying, I the company are not the only

500
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 1: ones desperate for the next iPhone. I am desperate anytime again. Pierce,

501
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: you know, wrote that little blurb about, you know, the

502
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: season of AI gadgets is here before any of the

503
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: Humane and Rabbit stuff came out, and I was like

504
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: crossing my fingers as somebody who covers the stuff and

505
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: as somebody who has loved the stuff for as long

506
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: as I can remember. I love the excitement of new

507
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: things coming out and introducing new possibilities, and I feel

508
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: like the AI. I have an increasingly severe grudge against

509
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,479
Speaker 1: the AI bubble, the hype cycle for raising my hopes

510
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: actually putting some pretty cool hardware in my head. Say

511
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: what you want about the Humane payment. That hardware rocks

512
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: and then absolutely cutting its legs out from under it

513
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: because most of its functionality is based on an LLM

514
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: that you can't trust because it tells you the sun

515
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: is going to set forty minutes ago at eleven in

516
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: the morning.

517
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think like AI is. You know, I'm super

518
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 3: excited about Apple Intelligence, mainly because I'm going to be

519
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 3: able to make the best ship posts to send my

520
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 3: friends because you can do image generation and it's hideous,

521
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 3: it's terrible looking, and I'm so excited to just troll people.

522
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 3: But otherwise, like you know, AI is one of those things,

523
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 3: like we've built lying machines, and as far as large

524
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 3: language models go, they're really bad at it, to the

525
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 3: point where Tim Cook's like, well, I wouldn't say one

526
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 3: hundred percent get it right, And I believe that's actually

527
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 3: a bad thing you to say, dude. And everybody's saying

528
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 3: that because they're like, don't worry about it, don't worry

529
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: about it. I Meanwhile, the researchers are like, actually, language

530
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 3: models aren't the thing. Don't you should worry about it.

531
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: But everybody's like, but we can make money now, and

532
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 3: so we can't well.

533
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: Jenson Wong wang when he's not serving PC gamers like me.

534
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 2: But that's the thing though, That's something he was saying

535
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: that Michael was actually kind of the impetus of us

536
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: being here today. Something in this show that people say,

537
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 2: people say about me all the time is oh, you're

538
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 2: just a pessimist, you and all this stuff. I love

539
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 2: this shit. Do you know how excited I am when

540
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: I get a new dumb gadget I can mess around.

541
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,719
Speaker 2: You've got a charger, I right here, anchor charger. I'm

542
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: so excited. I got two, so I've got redundancy. So

543
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: happy with that stuff. I love my little gizmos and gadgets.

544
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: I love this stuff, and I haven't really had anything

545
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 2: to The steam deck was the last time I was

546
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: really like excited for and then excited after. Yeah, and kind.

547
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 3: Of the vision pro oh interesting, but it's.

548
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: Like there's always a but, and the butt is usually Yeah.

549
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: But the people who made it, they didn't really give

550
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 2: it to real people. Yeah, they gave it to a

551
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: focus group and it was a McKinsey one, so three

552
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: quarters of them were paid to say whatever they wanted

553
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 2: to hear and the rest didn't turn up. And it's

554
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 2: just frustrating because there was a time I think it's

555
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: just love the rock kombabb but there was a twenty

556
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: year period and we've got new stuff, new stuff, new stuff.

557
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: Even the bad stuff was kind of funny. Yeah, even

558
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: all this dorky indieg Go bullshit, like the Coolest Cooler

559
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: which had a speaker at a margerite. You knew that

560
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: was never gonna work, but you kind of enjoyed them try.

561
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: And then they scammed a bunch of people. That was

562
00:24:59,400 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: also bad.

563
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you stopped getting fun, like there wasn't something

564
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 5: to look forward to. But the vision pro reason I

565
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 5: brought it up is my first hour with it was

566
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 5: so exciting, and then I realized that I had like

567
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,479
Speaker 5: light bleeding in so I started fucking with it and

568
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 5: I couldn't get it on right, and I spent like

569
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 5: another hour trying to make it work, and it just

570
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 5: turned out that like I didn't have the right size thing,

571
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 5: which dramatically improved it, and I was using it fairly often.

572
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 5: I'm like, this is not there yet, but this is

573
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 5: different and cool and watching movies on its great.

574
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: Then I tried to watch on a plane, how'd that go?

575
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 2: I got a migrant and I have yet to finish June.

576
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: People say this and Ultimore or whatever it is from

577
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: that to me all the time, but it's it's very

578
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: strange because it almost doesn't feel like anyone's trying.

579
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, well go ahead.

580
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, like, the VR thing is a

581
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 3: weird one because it is so dependent on the person, right,

582
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 3: Like I had a friend who also just recently did

583
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: a cross country flight, wore their vision pro, watched June

584
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 3: and June two. Nice back to back and they were they.

585
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: Loved it, absolute legends.

586
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, whereas you would have presumably thrown up everywhere and.

587
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 2: They would My head just felt like it would explode it.

588
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

589
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 3: Uh and and and that's just because like your your

590
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 3: vestibular response is totally different than their vestibular response, and

591
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 3: it's that's what's gonna happen there. And that's why VR

592
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 3: is a dead end. And that's why Meta now has

593
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 3: like been like you go over here, we tried.

594
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 2: It watchful hand of Baz, Yeah, we did that.

595
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 3: What was it the Meta Quest pro was that?

596
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 2: Was that the one where they had the Pro one

597
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 2: they canceled?

598
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, where they released it and everybody's like this is

599
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 3: garbage and they're like.

600
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they released it. I think what it was

601
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: was they released it at the same time as the

602
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 2: Quest two, which was like three hundred four hundred bucks.

603
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: People like, this is pretty good. Yeah, Like the expectations

604
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 2: were low, and they're like, but what if you paid

605
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: fourteen hundred dollars for something that wasn't as good? Yeah,

606
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: but it was more powerful?

607
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and that's you were saying a second ago,

608
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: like it doesnt feel like people trying anymore. I think

609
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: that's not it. I think people are trying at the

610
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: wrong thing. Yes, former journalists should be become a journalist

611
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: again because we miss him. David Ruddick was just complaining

612
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: about this on LinkedIn and he was just like, you know,

613
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: with respect to the product managers who I call my friend, Like,

614
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: product managers are ruining the segment because and even you

615
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: can take it out above the PMO. Like, it's like

616
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: companies have realized that if they do enough marketing to

617
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: create artificial demand, then that is a way to make

618
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: money in the short term and you can keep the

619
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: business growing.

620
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: Well, is that just what they believe is the case.

621
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: It may well be right for the long term. It's

622
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: certainly not true. Yeah, but for the short term it

623
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: may be you get spike and it feels like there's

624
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: ten times as much of that as there is for

625
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: every ten examples of that, there's one example of a

626
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: company it's actually like, hey, we actually have a good idea.

627
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a little weird idea, but we think enough

628
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: people buy it, will buy it and find delight in

629
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: it that we can make a business out of it. Right,

630
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: And if more people did that instead of like what,

631
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: how can we make money and get out as quickly

632
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: as possible, right then, I think we have those glory

633
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: days if.

634
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 2: You can make the money and get up by doing

635
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: some people want to buy it. It's just frustrating, true, Alex.

636
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: It's are you enjoying any devices other than the strange

637
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: north White steam deck?

638
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, the garbage steam deck that I'm not even gonna score,

639
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 3: because you should buy it. It's it's it's not going

640
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: to be good for most people, but it's so much

641
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 3: fun to like fuck around with. I don't know, I

642
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 3: like that's one of the reasons I got really into

643
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: e ink because it felt like it was much closer

644
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 3: to like There's felt like there was something there that

645
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 3: could be solved pretty quickly. But that was like five

646
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 3: or six years ago, and it hasn't happened.

647
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: What's slowing it down.

648
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: Because everybody wants to make money through vertical integration, so

649
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 3: they're like, well, I don't want you to actually get

650
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 3: anybody else's books on your device. I want you to

651
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: get my books.

652
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: So everyone wants to do a platform play, right.

653
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 3: So everybody's doing a platform play. So it's it's money again, right,

654
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: Like everybody's like I need all as much of the

655
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 3: money as I can get to my little side. Because

656
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: Apple did that and it worked really well for Apple.

657
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: They never worked for anyone else.

658
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: Well, I mean Amazon, it kind of works on.

659
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: Amazon already had that scam going.

660
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, that's true.

661
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: And you haven't seen that meaningful evolution in the kindle

662
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: with such an the scribe in a long time.

663
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: Which is insane garbage compared to a lot of the

664
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 3: stuff because like China, and this is the other point

665
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 3: is there's a lot of innovation happening in China. A

666
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 3: ton do you ever.

667
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 2: Use the odin?

668
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 3: The odin?

669
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: So there was this It's an Android gaming console before

670
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 2: the Steam deck, so just to be clear, probably not

671
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: as fun, but super fast. You could do PlayStation remote

672
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: on it, almost like predecessor to the PlayStation porter, which

673
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: is literally just playing PlayStation and it was great. And

674
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: what they did is a crazy idea. They were like,

675
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 2: why don't we make it really easy to run the

676
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: specific gaming apps you like? And what if we made

677
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: the buttons good?

678
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

679
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: And what are crazy?

680
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: Like?

681
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: Sold out? Indiegogo did really well. Comes out of China,

682
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: and it's like this current sinophobic climate's fucking frustrating. Because

683
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: let them in, please borrow the innovation from them. They

684
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: seem China seems to be fucking trying with tech right.

685
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 3: And one of the reasons they're trying because I kind

686
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 3: of went down a rabbit hole with the eating thing

687
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: where I was like, why is nobody trying this, Like

688
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 3: you're getting all these really cool eat ink readers out

689
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 3: of China and nothing here, And it was because we're

690
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: so obsessed with that lock in. We're so obsessed with

691
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: how do we build that bigger model. We don't want

692
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: to just sell one thing. We want to sell you

693
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: the services, We want to sell you the platform, and

694
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 3: and America is just super hyper focused on that, where

695
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: China's like, yeah, I mean I don't care who you use, well,

696
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 3: I mean by our ship.

697
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: I mean as they also have one monopoly.

698
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's like we all operate within this one.

699
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: We're all controlled by ten Cent. But yeah, but it's

700
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: frustrating because I feel like what it might also be

701
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: is that they're like, how do we make the next

702
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: trillion dollar company or billion dollar company? They're like, what

703
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: if you made a fifty million dollar company? No?

704
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, fuck that, Well you got you gotta you gotta

705
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: get your your your investors right, you gotta get your stockholders,

706
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: you gotta do all of that. And and apparently money

707
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: is not free. People don't just give money away.

708
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: Got to give one hundred million dollars to Adam Newman

709
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: again so that you can make the next bad company.

710
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: I think that happened.

711
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: It did. He got two hundred and fifty million dollars.

712
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 3: Well, I just I want to fill that hard up.

713
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: That sounds rate so good.

714
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: Well, and like we I don't mean to keep bringing

715
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: it back to humane, but that was the thing I

716
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: kept saying in the Humane briefing. I was just like, guys,

717
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: I know this is not what you want to hear,

718
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: but this would be a great little accessory for the phone.

719
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: You could still do a lot of cool things and

720
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: have it linked to your phone, and then it wouldn't

721
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: be well, a bunch of things would.

722
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: It did not work, but.

723
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: You didn't catch on fire. That's that's exactly.

724
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: I'm still here.

725
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 3: You're still here.

726
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: But like the it wasn't a bold enough vision. And

727
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: they didn't say this, I assume this. It wasn't a

728
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: bold enough vision one to get a bunch of people

729
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: motivated to do because if you're replacing the smartphone. Big

730
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: quotes around that. Well, that's a that's a mission that's

731
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: at least difficult. That's like a moonshot. And then B

732
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: you can't get enough investors excited to your point to

733
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: give you all the all the money that you just

734
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: want to put together.

735
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: Just a note for listeners. That's the humane AI pin

736
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: Google it. It's terrible. Seven one dollars twenty four dollars

737
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: a month, just the basic thing. But the human was

738
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: so weird though. And this is the thing that I

739
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: will never understand and they will never tell me, is

740
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: how did you put this out the door? How did

741
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: you look at this thing?

742
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 3: Oh?

743
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: It overheats in two minutes? Oh chat GBT sometimes doesn't work.

744
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: Basic shame. I mean I would not want to do it.

745
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: I would be like.

746
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 3: They kind of had to write like they they kind

747
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: of hit their their point where it's like should to

748
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 3: get off the pot?

749
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: This is the question I don't know I asked that

750
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: about it. It's just two x human is it rabbit?

751
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 2: Cynical one believe.

752
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: I think Rabbit had to launch before the what we

753
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: all knew was gonna happen, which was Google was going

754
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: to do us Apple was going to do.

755
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, people saw how it operated so that they could

756
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: say this, it looks cool.

757
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does look cool.

758
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: He is on the board of teenage Engineering. He is

759
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: on the board. This boys are sick. Okay, we're going

760
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: to talk about the Rabbit.

761
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: It's time.

762
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: So those listeners who don't know about the rabbit. Is

763
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: this two hundred dollars AI device and it claims to

764
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: have something on it called a large Action model. Large

765
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 2: Action Model claims it was trained on six hundred plus

766
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: apps to distinctly control your raps, but for some reason

767
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: it only launch with four or five. Turns out that

768
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 2: when you ask the lamb to do something, it would

769
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: sometimes just not work. Sometimes you would say or to

770
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 2: me McDonald and it would go sorry, Uber isn't working.

771
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: And it turns out, due to some friendly hackers that

772
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: it turned out that it isn't actually using a large

773
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: action model. It's connected to playwright, a script thing. I'm

774
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: sure more technical listeners are going to email me corrections.

775
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: I'm very sorry. But in shut instead of running a

776
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: large action model an actual AI thing, it was triggering

777
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: scripts using chat GPT. Now I could do a whole

778
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,719
Speaker 2: episode in surprise. I haven't over the whole thing that

779
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: there used to be an NFT company, but putting all

780
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: of the obvious horrible things aside, it just fucking sucks. Yeah,

781
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: it's just really bad in a way that is almost unbelievable.

782
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: I recommend you going look. Dave three D did a

783
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: whole thing about it before it came out that was

784
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,719
Speaker 2: very good. But go and look at Linuses and Linus.

785
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: I know people have problems with him, but his the

786
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: thing about the rabbit was great because it was mostly

787
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: him trying stuff it not working, and it goes what

788
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: what what, which was very entertaining.

789
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: It's very funny.

790
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: But it's just broken.

791
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

792
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they raised another thirty two million dollars in March.

793
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 2: It feels like I am living in a different universe

794
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 2: to the.

795
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: Rest of the world.

796
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: I see this. It's bad. The YouTube's like, this is

797
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: the worst thing I've ever used. Investorsla absolutely, Yeah. I

798
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 2: need to get in on the shit now.

799
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

800
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

801
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 3: Elon Musk has just sent them wrote them a check.

802
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 3: He did not, to my knowledge, for write them a check.

803
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 3: He wouldn't do that.

804
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 2: It's an epic andvice device.

805
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think you're alone. I think there is

806
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 3: a weird tension happening where we have Silicon Valley. We

807
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: have all these investors in Silicon Valley who are all

808
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 3: just desperate to make money and never took a single

809
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 3: history English course like any liberal arts. They think that's stupid.

810
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 3: And then there's the rest of the world. Yeah, and

811
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: these people are so focused on money they forget the

812
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 3: rest of the world. They never touch grass. And so

813
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 3: they'll put on the vision pro and be like, this

814
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 3: is going to change the face of computing, and not

815
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 3: consider the billion of different other ways people use computers.

816
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 3: Or they'll see the the rabbit with the worst name

817
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 3: on the planet. By the way, a majority of women

818
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 3: I know the rabbit was coming.

819
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: Out, was like, why gonna pay two hundred dollars for that?

820
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 3: I got one in my drawer next to my bed.

821
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: What the hell, guys, I'm dying to know more about

822
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: that weight. I didn't even put.

823
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 3: That the rabbit is a very notorial, like that's that's

824
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: a term for a whole type of sex toy that is.

825
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had no idea.

826
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so like when they were like, we've got

827
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 3: the rabbit, and I was like, do you oh it's

828
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 3: a different rat Like now bring out the ra You're like, whoa,

829
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 3: what's happened to Cees? I knew you guys were doing

830
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 3: sex text now.

831
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: But wow, so I moved the thing away from c

832
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: That's depending on But I think I think that it

833
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: is that that there's the kind of disconnection from the

834
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: real world, but there's also I don't know if these

835
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 2: people use stuff. I just don't.

836
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 3: I don't think they do.

837
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if they use it. Like I really

838
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: want to just get behind Marc Andreeson at one point

839
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 2: and can't say the rest of that, but I mean,

840
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 2: look over his shoulder and see the funds eyes on

841
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: his iPhone right like I want to see it because

842
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: I don't think these people interact with the real world,

843
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: will touch gross. But I also don't think they like

844
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: I don't think well app vision pro is different because

845
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 2: public company whatever. Yeah, but like the Rabbit, for example,

846
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: I don't think they fucking can I like, these little

847
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: pigs will buy this.

848
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 3: Well, they'd already bought it, right like, like they announced

849
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 3: the thing, they made these huge promises, they did a

850
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 3: ton of pre sales, and then it came out and

851
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: we haven't heard how the pre sales or how the

852
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 3: sales have.

853
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 2: Hundred thousand units after Oh we don't they don't.

854
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, well, and I don't know what we're gonna

855
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 3: hear about that, right, like we.

856
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: Are not it's coming from I think, you know, I mean,

857
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: if they I'm with you. I think there are dubious

858
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: business motivations to a lot of this, right. But I

859
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: can't help but think that if I was inside one

860
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: of these organizations that I wouldn't look No, I know,

861
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: I would have been caught up in it. I would

862
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: have been caught up in the ambition. I would have

863
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: been caught up in the promise, especially when you consider

864
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: that the design process of a lot of this stuff

865
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: goes back to the time where we were most of

866
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: us are getting our first chance to interact with chat GPT,

867
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: and I'm like to make me a text adventure in

868
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: the style of Star Trek Deeps Race nine. Yeah, and

869
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: it did it, And I was like, oh, oh my god.

870
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: You know, I remember where I was when that happened.

871
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: It was like the first time I put on a

872
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: VR headset. I remember the first time I was actually

873
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: blown away by AI. And if I was in an

874
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: inside a company or a recently hybrid companies, like we're

875
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: going to change the world with this tech. I think

876
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: I would have I probably would have been on that

877
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: boat for like a year before I started getting real

878
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: internally by.

879
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 3: Chat GPT initially, yeah, yeah, I like for me, I

880
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 3: used it, and it just reminded me of the aim

881
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: bots from like I'm old here, I'm an apologies to

882
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: the audience. I'm sure you're all twelve, Hi, why are

883
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 3: you listening?

884
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: Sure, I'm older than you.

885
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're old people. But the AIME bots, you'd go

886
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: and you log in and you type and and type back,

887
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 3: and then there's we've seen this so many times and

888
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 3: this one I was.

889
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: Like, Okay to Eliza, yeah, we're back to this.

890
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: We're back to this, Like the pattern recognition and recreation

891
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 3: machine has gotten just really really good, and I was like,

892
00:37:59,520 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 3: that's fine.

893
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of That's actually where I was as well, like, oh,

894
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: you can do a text bace adventure, and I think

895
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: i'd have heard that. I would have gone cool, all right,

896
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: and just kind of just say because I run a

897
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 2: PR firm, yeah, I have clients in AI, but nothing

898
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: that touches this show because I'm scared of that. And

899
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: it's like it's a few clients night who have even

900
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 2: just do a I think that's the thing. I don't

901
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: surprisingly enough AI companies aren't super excited to work with

902
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: me when I'm talking about them actually having to do stuff.

903
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: But it's like with chat GPT, for example. I know,

904
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: I actually understand totally Michael, why you were excited like that.

905
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: I can understand why others might have been excited by that.

906
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 2: I just don't understand how they're still that way because

907
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 2: nothing has happened.

908
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 3: Money, honey, I guess, But I mean money is a

909
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 3: very powerful driver.

910
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 2: If you work for a financial institution. I get, But

911
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: like gadgetw even just regular people don't seem excited. It's

912
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: just so weird. It feels like living in two realities

913
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:57,959
Speaker 2: at once.

914
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

915
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: And like there was a sign that someone posted on

916
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: blue Sky was like we put the AI in an

917
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: inn I p A. It was a Dell advert what. Yeah,

918
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: I just I feel like I like it. I have

919
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 2: a friend who is in a dot com boom company, yeah,

920
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: like a textbook related one, and I'm really tempted to

921
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: call him and be like was it like this was

922
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 2: it like this, and if he says yes, I'm gonna

923
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 2: do nothing because I can't invest in anything now because

924
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: I run a bloody podcast. I can't do anything. You

925
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 2: can't short ship. It's like the big short. But Steve

926
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 2: Goss just like, well, I'll just go home.

927
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: I guess I think like we have to give give

928
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: credit to the to the entire thing. First of all,

929
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: the marketing approach to AI has been really frustrating because

930
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: everything is a I know, stuff that was that existed

931
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: before in its has been ported directly, unchanged and just

932
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: rebranded as as AI, just much in the same way.

933
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: I think somebody brought up to me at the at

934
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: the John Deere event. I was just at could we

935
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: will not be talking about okay?

936
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 3: I had so many questions somebody brought up.

937
00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, it's like slapping a non GMO

938
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: label on an unchanged box of weed. Things like. It's like, okay, well,

939
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: AI is just being marketed much too aggressively, So you

940
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: have stuff stuck in here kind of getting caught in

941
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: the in the flat. That's like, that's really useful, but

942
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: it's it's these it's a seasoning that you put on

943
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: something that is already used. Yeah, it's not in itself

944
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: a self contained thing capable of driving a whole new

945
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 1: range of especially gadgets, which again makes me very sad,

946
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: because every time you would touch a new AI, I

947
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 1: think the plot a the plod note, that little self

948
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: contained AI voice recorder was like, this is very cool.

949
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: I wish it were an alternate universe in the year

950
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: two thousand and I could actually get excited about this

951
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 1: because what this is is a feature that belongs in

952
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: the Google recorder And oh sorry, I just finished this

953
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: video and that's exactly what Google built in to their

954
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: recorder when that was done, and I.

955
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 2: Was like, okay, well home with that for now.

956
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's bummer pivots A.

957
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody, I mean yeah, I think they're just going

958
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: to pivot back and forth. Everybody's gonna be constantly oscillating

959
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 3: until like something sticks because they're so desperate for that

960
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 3: next thing. They're so eager that everybody's just looking for

961
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 3: the money. They know it somewhere and like right now

962
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 3: it is all in n video stock and they're hoping

963
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 3: that it will somehow come to them at some point.

964
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: Why not you, I don't know, It's like why not

965
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: build some fucking hardware to put video stuff in. I

966
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 2: realized those black bell chips aren't what we're talking about,

967
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: But I don't know. It's almost as if no one

968
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 2: wants to do the work in the middle. They're like,

969
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 2: I've got an idea and I need to make a product.

970
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: Can I skip the middle part? It's boring, it's expensive,

971
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 2: it takes forever. I need to have this shit on

972
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: the market in six months, and it can't be. And

973
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: I it is the growth that all costs for rot

974
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: economy ever in about one hundred times. But it's also

975
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 2: frustrating because I actually think, if they put in the effort,

976
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: this would be cool. When it comes to AI. Part

977
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: of my frustration comes back to that thing we were

978
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 2: saying earlier about how we've been let down, because I

979
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 2: would actually love it if I could reliably tell my

980
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: phone to take distinct actions. Send the calendar invite to

981
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: Alex and Michael, Yes, three pm at the iHeartRadio studio,

982
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: and just fucking send it and it would know how

983
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 2: maybe it goes. Do you want eastern a Pacific time?

984
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: Or wait? I said, New York you already know. And

985
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: it sends the invites and they find your emails. That

986
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 2: would be useful. I wish in my regular email job

987
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: I could have it through the spreadsheets and the documents.

988
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: It can't, it can't actually do these things. Yeah, and

989
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: this please make that the future. No, it isn't the future.

990
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 2: We need to They can't even describe what it is.

991
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 3: And it's just because it can't do that future yet, right, Like,

992
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 3: there's the thing we have now. The thing that everybody

993
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: got really excited about was they released GPT three point five.

994
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 3: Everybody went, oh, crap, this can write this can write stuff,

995
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 3: and it can write it not like garbage for once,

996
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 3: and this is huge. And all of the researchers just

997
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 3: roll their eyes because they'd seen this for ages. They

998
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 3: were like, yeah, it's a lare language bottle. That's what

999
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 3: they do. They calm down, and everybody's like no, And

1000
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 3: then the downloads increased. The downloads increase, and everybody's like, wait,

1001
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 3: I think there's some money here, right, and let's just

1002
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 3: like rye, this hype just right into the ground as

1003
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 3: long as we can write it, as long as we

1004
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 3: count until it gets it around. And that's pretty much

1005
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 3: what happened just right.

1006
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to im like I'm still you know,

1007
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: I'm halfway between like the stuff that that we're all

1008
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: talking about and then the stuff that I see again

1009
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: in these little flashes of like what I'll be on

1010
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: a trip with and Kevin neither will be. I'll be like,

1011
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: what are you doing? He's like, well, I have a cold,

1012
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: so I can't do voiceover for my video. But I

1013
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: built a model of my own voice, so now all

1014
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: I have to do is type in something and script

1015
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 1: in the model in my voice reads into the audience.

1016
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well that's useful. Cool, all right, Well

1017
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: you don't bookmark that like generative fill stuff where it's

1018
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: like it's not like I'm typing into mid journey, like

1019
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: make me a photo of a high turtle eating macaroni

1020
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: and cheese while watch. It's like, no, I mean that

1021
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: is yeah, but like when you wroteate a photo right

1022
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: in it and you have to fill in the stuff

1023
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: with with fake scenery just to make it look okay,

1024
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: so you can run a blog post, It's like that's useful.

1025
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: So there's these little a lot of.

1026
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 3: These smaller things that it could be super super useful,

1027
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 3: but that's not what they want to focus on because

1028
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 3: that takes actual work. That takes there's more development than

1029
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 3: need to happen.

1030
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: You're already big enough that you've bought whatever little company

1031
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: came up with that, and you built like you're Adobe.

1032
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 1: You built it in a Photoshop.

1033
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so then everybody hates you because you're Adobe.

1034
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: I think it's almost like they are really good at

1035
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 2: features but terrible at products like these aren't useful because

1036
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: the actual user interface of phones is really good and

1037
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: also very bad. I will lose what I am doing

1038
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 2: on my phone sometimes. I have five hundred and eighty

1039
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: seven Safari taps up.

1040
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 3: That doesn't surprise because.

1041
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: The UX on there is so wonky and it's so

1042
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: like it's not like on a computer where you have

1043
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 2: like like a Actually that was just like close crum

1044
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 2: taps on my computer too. But I don't lose shit

1045
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: as much, but I still do on the computer.

1046
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: Yea.

1047
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: I I don't miss meetings because I generally forced myself

1048
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: to be on time, as I was not today, and

1049
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: it's the fact that I have to moderate so much

1050
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 2: of this stuff. Yeah, everyone's talking about AI. That really

1051
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: pisses me off. Why can the phone if AI is

1052
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: the goddamn future. Why are we so far from well.

1053
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 3: The other part of that is the security in privacy,

1054
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 3: Like we just saw as we're recording this earlier today,

1055
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 3: Apple said, actually, a bunch of these features that we

1056
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 3: announced at WWDC, like Apple Intelligence, which is gonna make

1057
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 3: Siri like do a lot of the stuff we all

1058
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 3: want it to do. They're not coming to Europe because

1059
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 3: the DMA, and they're like, oh, you know, we're worried

1060
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 3: it's gonna like do something about the privacy. Recall is

1061
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 3: another example that was the Windows feature where it was like,

1062
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 3: what if we just to me. I was editing our

1063
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 3: postport and I was like, this rules. I didn't even

1064
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 3: think about the security because I was like, oh, it's

1065
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 3: going to take a picture and I'm just gonna know.

1066
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I'd recently been trying to look for

1067
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: a text message from ten years ago. So it is

1068
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 3: feeling very like this is perfect for me specifically, and

1069
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 3: then everybody's like, this is the worst thing to ever

1070
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 3: happen in my life.

1071
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 2: What's great is they didn't actually solve the real problem,

1072
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: which was search searching for things. Spotlight is actually really good, yeah,

1073
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 2: but it's not good enough. No, it could just be

1074
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: a little bit better. Searching for stuff on your messages

1075
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 2: could be better. That would require them to make that better.

1076
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: They're like, no, if we just what we did, which

1077
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 2: is what we just call it, like, just wrote it down. Well,

1078
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: just wrote down literally everything you've ever done, got.

1079
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 3: In a plain text file, and then we'll just use

1080
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: AI to train on that and it'll be great. Yeah,

1081
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, that is definitely a solution.

1082
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: It's reminding me of something. I switched to a text

1083
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: message provider like fifteen years ago, and I was intoxicated

1084
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: by the prospect of being able to search all of

1085
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: my text messages for all time, which took down a

1086
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: few times, and over the course of the past like

1087
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 1: two years, I've been like, I must delete that entire archive. Yeah,

1088
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: just a massive liability.

1089
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: I have all wait emails, but not my text Yeah.

1090
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 3: No, I keep all of them. Don't worry.

1091
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: I guess you and I will go down together.

1092
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1093
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I'm taking everybody.

1094
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: You're indicted in all kinds.

1095
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hopefully please don't indict me.

1096
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: Please don't indict anyone who's on Better off line.

1097
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.

1098
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 6: Request so.

1099
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: Returning from a commercial break that I'll announce next time.

1100
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 2: It's just I wonder if it's something to do with

1101
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,240
Speaker 2: the venture capital climate, but not just that they don't

1102
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: want to invest in things that aren't going to grow huge,

1103
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 2: but also I think they're scared of hardware. They just

1104
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 2: the concept of hardware is expensive. It's expensive. But also,

1105
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 2: like you've been saying, there's not really a platform like

1106
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 2: there is if you own the hardware device, but you

1107
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: need to come up with some noxious way to charge

1108
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 2: them more.

1109
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody is obsessed with how do we get that

1110
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 3: extra that extra money right With the exception of some

1111
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 3: hardware in this room currently.

1112
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 1: Thank you very much that we just had an addrec.

1113
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 3: But for the most part, everybody is obsessed with us.

1114
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 3: When we saw those with video games, I think that's

1115
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 3: one of that was like one of the first ones

1116
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 3: we saw it with where they're like, what if we

1117
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 3: charge you just to play online with your friends even

1118
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 3: though it doesn't cost us anything to do that? Really well,

1119
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 3: I mean customer.

1120
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: I think it became with it became Jesus Christ began

1121
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: with the game. It was Moro wind or Oblivion that

1122
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: they had the horse armor. That was the big moment.

1123
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 2: They charged two ninety nine for some armor for your horse.

1124
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:34,879
Speaker 3: Did you get it? No?

1125
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 2: Maybe the eldestcrolls online. But nevertheless, that was the moment

1126
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 2: when it but they were like uh.

1127
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 3: And then we got the more micro transactions. They're like, oh,

1128
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 3: do you want to do a cool little like handwave

1129
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 3: and destiny five dollars and I paid it, un like you,

1130
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 3: I paid the five dollars. I was like, take my money, Bungee.

1131
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

1132
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: Since we're talking about old timey things. The first time

1133
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: I encountered this was with Napster, when Napster went legit.

1134
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: Do you remember that very brief moment.

1135
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,280
Speaker 3: You were still with Napster when I went I moved.

1136
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 1: One to it? Nouse. You know I've done the linewired

1137
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: and because I ruined several computers. Yes, And then Napster

1138
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: comes out and it's like, hey, we're going legit. Just

1139
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: pay us this very affordable monthly fee and you get

1140
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: on limited music. I'm like great. And then I got

1141
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: to the part of the you know, front page. It's like, yeah,

1142
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: and if you ever stop paying us, you will lose

1143
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: access to all that music. I'm like, what, Yeah, it's

1144
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, and what is this and.

1145
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 3: Now that's how Spotify works exactly?

1146
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: Yes?

1147
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 2: Now or do you have a free account?

1148
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't pay for Spotify neither.

1149
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 1: Because I'm an influence.

1150
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 2: I pay for Apple Music.

1151
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,439
Speaker 3: I'm like, I really I get it through my my

1152
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 3: my phone bill for some reason.

1153
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: That's good.

1154
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great. So I'm like, I do I pay

1155
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 3: for it? But unclear?

1156
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 2: But it's just weird because it feels like there were

1157
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 2: very obvious problems that people have, Like phones are the

1158
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 2: whole stop using your phone thing is stupid. Can't you

1159
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 2: in the top list Thatt b I had a really

1160
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 2: good piece. It's like I love my phone. I love

1161
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 2: being on my phone. Yeah, the problem is there's too

1162
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: much shit in it and that doesn't Google I need

1163
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 2: you to search for me. You're also not good in it.

1164
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: But it's the I feel like they are selling us

1165
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 2: back the idea of interfaces, except they're not even doing it.

1166
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: They're not actually automating anything. That's the thing with the AI.

1167
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: That is the problem of AI other than all the

1168
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 2: other ones, which is it's not doing anything for me.

1169
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 2: What is it doing when even the Apple Intelligence thing.

1170
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 2: We just did an episode on Excited about the prospect

1171
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: of what they could do, but also they didn't actually

1172
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: say much Siri can do actions across multiplaps.

1173
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 3: And also it's not coming until well after launch, right.

1174
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 2: Is it Jesus Christ?

1175
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 3: Yeah? Or some of the features they were really like

1176
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 3: they weren't clear on which features are coming immediately, which

1177
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 3: or later.

1178
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 2: Just this obfiscation and it's almost I mean, because that

1179
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 2: was WWTC Google Io.

1180
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 3: We just finished this big developer conference season. And while

1181
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 3: it was ostensibly for developers and ostensibly for the rest

1182
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 3: of us, and it should have been developers, because never

1183
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 3: has the relationship between these platforms and developers more fraud

1184
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 3: the stuff that's happening in Europe with the DMA has

1185
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 3: made it really really difficult, and instead it was for

1186
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 3: investors and saying here, we've got we've got our AI

1187
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 3: thing too. We are in on the hype, and it's like,

1188
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 3: you don't have to be like we talked about I'm

1189
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 3: gonna do a little plug here. We talked about this

1190
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 3: on the Verge cast the verges Sorry, what what where?

1191
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 3: Where I sometimes talk about stuff too, And we talked

1192
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 3: about it over there, and it was really really clear

1193
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 3: that they just they'd done this for the investors and

1194
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 3: if they hadn't been doing AI this year, and it

1195
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 3: was really clear that that was kind of bolted on.

1196
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 3: Everybody would be talking about how stupid and dumb and

1197
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 3: delightful your phone looks because you can change the color

1198
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 3: on it now, right, Like you can change the user interface,

1199
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 3: and like there was these cool moments that happened and

1200
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,240
Speaker 3: they just were like, no, no, no, forget that AI.

1201
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: Yeah go buck, No, no, man, that's it. I mean

1202
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: like it's that that And that has been the case

1203
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: since I got into this business. Right, It's like you

1204
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 1: go to a show and well, what's the theme this year?

1205
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: You know? And I think we saw seeds of this.

1206
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: Soone in twenty seventeen when Google first spent like half

1207
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: of Google io talking about bots. What are you doing here?

1208
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 3: I think it was the same year that Facebook when

1209
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 3: they did f eight was it fate? Oh, and they're like,

1210
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 3: we're going to revolutionize the world with chat bots in Facebook?

1211
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1212
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 3: Where are those?

1213
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 2: M was the m assistant right with me? With Facebook?

1214
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: It was so fucking But it's always there's always that big,

1215
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, overarching theme, and it's again to your point,

1216
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: yes it is to you know, curry favor with with

1217
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: investors and make sure no, Google's not being left behind.

1218
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: We can't afford to be seen as being left behind.

1219
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: And then you know, you get the search query that

1220
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: the glue on pizza stuff, the go eat rocks thing,

1221
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: and of course they've got the egg on their face

1222
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: now because and I cannot, for the life of me

1223
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: understand why no one internally said, hey, stop, let's let's

1224
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: actually because.

1225
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 3: Google is one of the biggest companies in the world

1226
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 3: and it is a nightmare to work in.

1227
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: I've heard that.

1228
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1229
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 3: Tony Fidell, who built like Nest and all of that stuff,

1230
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 3: he wrote a book that was all about how he

1231
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 3: knows business and one of the really actually interesting parts

1232
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 3: in it is how his just relationship with Google collapsed

1233
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 3: after he was Nest was acquired. They acquire Nest and

1234
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,919
Speaker 3: then like immediately, you know, his boss is like, actually,

1235
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 3: I'm not your boss anymore. This guy over here is

1236
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 3: your boss. You're doing this. And then that guy's like, oh,

1237
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 3: actually you're doing this. And it was just constantly changing

1238
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 3: because it's such a big amorphous, right thing. Yeah, And

1239
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 3: like a lot of these companies are that way. Google's

1240
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 3: probably the worst at it. Amazon's pretty bad at it.

1241
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 3: Apple is generally pretty good at it. Apple's whole thing

1242
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 3: is just like the culture of the place can sometimes

1243
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 3: get in the way. It's a cultish yeah uh, and

1244
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 3: Google is also a cult. But it's like what if

1245
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 3: we were like a big kind of disorganized there was.

1246
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 2: A run by show regular listeners, and now McKenzie graduate

1247
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 2: sound off as shy Well confuses me, is like Liz

1248
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 2: Reid has been there like decades such chief now, but

1249
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 2: so her boss is probably a ragavan who form ahead

1250
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 2: of ads who also used to run Yahoo. Please listen

1251
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 2: to the episode. Great episode, arguably the weirdest thing I

1252
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 2: ever discovered of them what I see in the era. Anyway,

1253
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: It's just it's frustrating as well, because you can they

1254
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 2: must have no shame, They must legitimately just be like

1255
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 2: who gives this ship? Like the only way you are

1256
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 2: able to release products this bad is when you just

1257
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 2: to your point, it was for investors, but now the

1258
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 2: company is for investors. Yeah, because I think that that

1259
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 2: is the rubicon that's being crossed.

1260
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 3: That's why like someone like Panos Ponee who's now at Amazon,

1261
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 3: or Steve Jobs had these like panas Pine used to

1262
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 3: ran the Surface department, ran all of the surface products

1263
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 3: at Microsoft for years.

1264
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: One of the most gifted presenters at press events.

1265
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 3: I mean, he knows how to present things favorite and

1266
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 3: he really understands how to build these things, and and

1267
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 3: it like, I think he made a real moment with

1268
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 3: the Surface because he cares about the products. And he's

1269
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 3: now at Amazon and they won't let me talk to him.

1270
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 3: And it's fine, I'm okay with it. But and that's

1271
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 3: because he's going and like, okay, we've got to fix

1272
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 3: Amazon's like product lineup, because.

1273
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 2: It's what if it was good?

1274
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, what if it was good? And and and you

1275
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 3: see that and but those are the rare guys, right,

1276
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 3: Like the reason these people are so beloved is because

1277
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 3: they do care. Jony I have terrible ideas a lot

1278
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 3: of times. Apparently it was like his idea to put

1279
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 3: the eyes in the vision pro Oh really, yeah.

1280
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 2: It would be lies. Yeah, what if what if the

1281
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 2: watch was a triangle?

1282
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:30,720
Speaker 1: No?

1283
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 3: No, that's the rest of it.

1284
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 2: By the way, I want to see Jony I. Apparently

1285
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,760
Speaker 2: Sam Woman really badly wants to make a device with them. Yeah, honestly,

1286
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 2: give them as much money as they want. I will

1287
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 2: see what I want. I want to see the homomobile.

1288
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 2: Ask Gadget that these idiots past.

1289
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 3: Zero ports zero display.

1290
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 2: Call it the hexagon.

1291
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 3: You just think at it.

1292
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 2: It's a new new type of Bluetooth devices. You can

1293
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 2: connect your Bluetooth device.

1294
00:55:56,080 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 7: I think, oh, ship, it's it looks gorgeous, which is

1295
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 7: I'm fine if things look good, but if they just

1296
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 7: completely useless.

1297
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 3: Cards Yeah, no, no, I mean and and But that

1298
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 3: was the thing is like he's kind of like a

1299
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 3: lesser example because he does have some bad ideas. He's

1300
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 3: so about the minimalism and weirdness that it goes to

1301
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,399
Speaker 3: like somebody tell him no. But that's why Steve works.

1302
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 3: That's why or Steve Jobs works. I don't know if

1303
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 3: Steve jobs, he's dead. That's why Steve Jobs works. That's

1304
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 3: why that's why Panels work was because they can actually

1305
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 3: they actually care about the products. They actually want to

1306
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 3: make something good. And most of the time now, like

1307
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 3: Tim Cook, I'm sure he cares about the product because

1308
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 3: he is the CEO and he has to make money

1309
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 3: and and and please his investors and stuff. But he

1310
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 3: is a supply chains guy.

1311
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 2: Right, Like I also feel like Apples, laptops have been

1312
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 2: really good, their phones have been they have.

1313
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 3: Gotten They've gotten really good because everybody was like slagging

1314
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 3: on the laptops, being like their garbage. You haven't updated

1315
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,240
Speaker 3: the MacBook Air, your most popular device in half a decade,

1316
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 3: do something, and they're like, oh, we we probably should.

1317
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 3: And then but they only really did it and they

1318
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 3: actually had you could put their own process.

1319
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,479
Speaker 2: Which is right, and silicons great.

1320
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: That's the thing I think I'm my problem as I'm

1321
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: discovering in the middle of this conversation, I love this,

1322
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: this is good, is that my problem is not with

1323
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: the devices, because everyone who buys them, the millions of

1324
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: people who give Apple whatever it's three trillion dollars market

1325
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: cap or whatever it is right now, are very happy

1326
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: with them because they're very good products, and anytime they

1327
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: try something that I would like, Like, you know, for example,

1328
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: I thought the touch bar was kind of a fun idea. Yes, fun,

1329
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: but but it it creters and it's not supported in

1330
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: whatever you get this developer thing. But there are no

1331
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: options anymore for these types of products, Like your phone

1332
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: has to look like that. I'm pointing at Ed's iPhone fifty.

1333
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: Your phone has to look like that. And even if

1334
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: you go crazy and you make something that I really appreciate,

1335
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 1: like a foldable, which is one of the big reasons

1336
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: I still use Android phone because foldibles change the way

1337
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: I use phones and they're great. They still have to

1338
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: unfold into vaguely something that vaguely reminiscent of that rectangle.

1339
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: And a laptop, Oh my god, we just saw a

1340
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: Qualcomm you know, processors introduced into like I don't know,

1341
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: seventeen new laptops from a bunch of new new companies

1342
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: and they all look like the existing Intel powered laptops

1343
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: that they've been shipping forever.

1344
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 3: Because in most cases they just something I think. I

1345
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 3: think Microsoft and HP were like the only companies that

1346
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 3: do something.

1347
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: New, but even that's not new, like you can go asues.

1348
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: God bless them.

1349
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 4: They make these crazy, weird laptops with multiple screens. You

1350
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 4: get these foldable screens, and honestly, those do they're not

1351
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 4: just they're not gimmicks, like they change the way you

1352
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 4: compute it, and in some cases they are very very useful.

1353
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: But no one wanted to take a risk. No one

1354
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: wanted to take the affordance of all that space freed

1355
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: up by this arm based chip and like the reduction

1356
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: of fan size and everything. No, they're just everyone's just

1357
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: being very conservative because same reason that phone makers only

1358
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: make white and black phones in quantity, because that's all

1359
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: people buy. We make clicks in a very fetching yellow

1360
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: color and that's thirty percent of them or something like that,

1361
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: because those people want white a black and I get it,

1362
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: but I don't like it. I would encourage people to

1363
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: remember that fun can be a reason to consider a

1364
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: piece of technology. When did we decide that fun is

1365
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: not a priority in our in our like buying, when.

1366
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 3: We decided selling more products matter more than selling cool products?

1367
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 2: And shareholder supremacy?

1368
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the business I agree with you both on

1369
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: the business side, but as consumers like when did when

1370
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:27,919
Speaker 1: when did we just go like pick up a phone?

1371
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, maybe it's I think, I think

1372
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: that is you.

1373
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 2: I don't say this is a bad way. You're right,

1374
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 2: I understand what you feel that way. But it's their

1375
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 2: job to sell these things. It's their job to make

1376
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 2: these things us exactly like the two screen laptop is

1377
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 2: issues and Lenovo so these things are crazy, Like you've

1378
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 2: got the you've got the screen where your keyboard is,

1379
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 2: and then you have another screen. Make have a go

1380
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,479
Speaker 2: at it, do a proper national campaign, make some weird

1381
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 2: choices for because that's not a mass device. But guess what,

1382
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,919
Speaker 2: there are cool things you can do with it. Many

1383
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 2: people use two screens. Do a big enterprise push, do

1384
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 2: a big business push. When I see the ai IPA ad,

1385
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 2: that should be the double screen one's. And what's weird

1386
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 2: is like Dell, for example, that company was dog shit

1387
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 2: for a long time and now they're pretty good because

1388
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 2: they weren't. Why if we make good good computers, use

1389
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 2: our computers you see, Yeah they dogshit? Well if they

1390
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 2: were good nah. And it's just and I think it's

1391
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 2: this disconnection of the company from the product on both

1392
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 2: a business and just a culture level, like the people

1393
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 2: building things like it's so weird to me that Meta

1394
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: made the ray bands because all of the people who

1395
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 2: run Facebook now so it's Mark Zuckerberg. Javier Olivan Coo,

1396
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 2: you've got boz the ultimate growth, All costs, ass whole

1397
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 2: every terrorist attacks are justifiable for growth. Literally he said that. Yeah,

1398
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 2: it's really grim thing. Alex Schultz form of growth guy.

1399
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 2: All these are growth people. I'm shocked that there's anyone

1400
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: building anything in Facebook other than the Torment Nexus and

1401
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 2: it's plugins.

1402
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 3: Well, that's because Mark said, build you have to build

1403
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 3: me a hardware because nobody wants nobody, like everybody hates

1404
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 3: us because we're terrible at software. You've got to go

1405
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 3: build me some cool hardware so I can get as

1406
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 3: far away from the phones as far.

1407
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 2: So I'm lot for only because you said he could

1408
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 2: build build me a hardware. But I could imagine Mark Zuckerberg,

1409
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: just like his cold dead eyes looking build.

1410
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 3: Me a hard I assume that is exactly. It just leaves, yeah,

1411
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 3: killed it for me, slams the door.

1412
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: Honestly, I think if they brought back the HDC Chacha

1413
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: it would do pretty well. Read Chacha right, that was

1414
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: a physical quirity keyboard Android phone with a Facebook button

1415
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: on it that would let you directly share.

1416
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 2: Tens of them.

1417
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: So absolutely it could be the new minimalist phone for

1418
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:47,919
Speaker 1: the Facebook friendly. It could be the boomer phone.

1419
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's the boomer phone.

1420
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 2: The Great Coal has one with just giant numbers.

1421
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: Still around, right, They're still around, owned.

1422
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 2: By like a private equity phone, so not for long yeah,

1423
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 2: I was, that's that's a they'll be sold to a

1424
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 2: barbecue company or so by a private equity.

1425
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 3: Marina will buy it next year. I don't worry about it.

1426
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 2: Great things. What's funny though, is that see yes with

1427
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 2: the grill stuff. So, as some of you may know,

1428
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 2: I make excellent barbecue at home, I do smokers. I

1429
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 2: admit I got in a little bit of trouble at

1430
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 2: ces lustmor Is there because I went up to these people.

1431
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 2: I start asking them grilling questions, not like being an ASO.

1432
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 2: I was like, so, how does this help with the cooking?

1433
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1434
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 2: They're like, well, you see you go on the app

1435
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 2: and you can see recipes. Sure, but the device pause, Uh,

1436
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 2: well you can connect it and wife, I'm like, excellent,

1437
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 2: then what And that's because you can't really innovate that

1438
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 2: anymore other than the combustion thermometer, which is incredible. It's

1439
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 2: made by a guy who made a video a few

1440
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 2: years ago called your Raven is a Liar and it's

1441
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 2: got eight I'm not connected with this. It's just excellent.

1442
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 2: I have to has eight sensors in it so it

1443
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 2: can find the coldest point in your food. What like

1444
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 2: all my hate the various caters use me. I've got

1445
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 2: my detractors on these saying I don't like anything. The

1446
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 2: combustion thermotos excellent, is so good. I finally got my

1447
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 2: b F Ribs down with it. But that's the thing

1448
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 2: that one's a great example of solving an actual problem.

1449
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 2: That most people they use the thermometer, they don't know

1450
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 2: where to put it and they don't know if they're

1451
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 2: in the right place, and they're I personally and deeply

1452
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 2: anxious person so constant anxiety, which is great for a

1453
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,919
Speaker 2: twelve hour cook. With this, it works, and it works

1454
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 2: really well, and there's not a bunch of other bullshit.

1455
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 2: It costs like one hundred and sixty nine bucks, so

1456
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 2: it's not cheap, but it solves a problem.

1457
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1458
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 2: Now, it's like you think with all of this money

1459
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 2: in AI or AR or all these things, they solve

1460
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 2: a problem. We've had very similar problems for like ten years.

1461
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 3: I think part of it is a lot of these

1462
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:47,479
Speaker 3: people do not they think they're solving a problem, right right,

1463
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 3: Like I think everybody in this room is probably good.

1464
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 3: We're good writers, right like. We all's part that's part

1465
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:55,919
Speaker 3: of how we make our living. Like when you're doing

1466
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 3: a video, Yeah, you write the script like, we're good, Like,

1467
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 3: this is a skill we have and we can do.

1468
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 3: If somebody sends us a horrible text message, we will

1469
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 3: grow because we don't want to answer it emotionally, but

1470
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 3: we'll still respond, like and we'll respond the hell out

1471
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 3: of it. It will be real written, well written. But these

1472
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 3: people don't value that because they think that's just that's

1473
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 3: a thing they can surmount with AI, right, like, that's

1474
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:23,919
Speaker 3: that is the thing for him. And I run into

1475
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 3: this like I was talking to a woman the other

1476
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 3: day who gave me the first legitimately good use for

1477
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 3: large language models. She had a really bad blind date

1478
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 3: and the guy sent her like a long, long email

1479
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 3: and she's like, read this email for me because I'm

1480
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 3: not going to read it because I don't want to

1481
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 3: go on another date with a guy. Then respond to

1482
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 3: it like politely saying saying no, I don't want to

1483
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 3: see you again. And I was like, you figured it

1484
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 3: out that because like if you did that to me

1485
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 3: at work, I would be furious. Blind date, Yes, go, yep.

1486
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: That's no that that you're right, and that is the

1487
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 1: more specifically than the only good example for like it's

1488
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: the only good version of that demo that every company

1489
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: insists on thinking. It was just like, who send a

1490
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 1: text to my wife and tell her that I'm going

1491
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 1: to be late for dinner? Now make me sound more

1492
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: sad about it? No, apologize, just text.

1493
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 3: Your wife you start.

1494
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 2: It's like more effort to do.

1495
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous.

1496
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 2: And how do you even know what good is? You

1497
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 2: can't write right? Yeah?

1498
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: Exactly.

1499
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,439
Speaker 2: And I must also say, just as a note, there

1500
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 2: are people out there who have like cook disorders and

1501
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 2: learning learning disability called dyspraxia for example. It's physical, but

1502
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 2: there are people with dyslexia. Those are not When I

1503
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 2: say you should be able to write email, just to

1504
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 2: be really clear, not the people. I mean, you have

1505
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 2: an individualized problem. And I also must be clear, none

1506
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 2: of the AI companies give a rap fuck about you.

1507
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 2: They do not care that it's not You are not

1508
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 2: the person they are selling accessibility. They are selling to

1509
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 2: someone who does not exist that they made up right, Yeah,

1510
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 2: that is who it is. Because the rewrite stuff is crazy.

1511
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 2: And then the oh, I have these five ingredients in

1512
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 2: my kitchen.

1513
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 3: That's my favorite one. I'm like, ever happened to someone

1514
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 3: you just only have.

1515
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 2: I mean, no, you can't work out what you like

1516
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 2: unless you've got I've gone onion, one piece of ham,

1517
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 2: three knives of a cuman check GPT. Like what is

1518
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 2: the situation where you can't look at it and go

1519
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 2: all right, fine, Like I'll make a sandwich.

1520
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 3: Like because you're you're imagining what they imagine when they're

1521
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 3: doing this is themselves. They're just like looking in the

1522
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 3: mirror and they're being like, Okay, I put on my

1523
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 3: little padic.

1524
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 2: In your vest, I put on my clothes, put on.

1525
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 3: My little bluetooth headset. I haven't looked at my spouse

1526
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 3: in three weeks. I'm gonna have my assistant text them.

1527
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 3: Oh shit, my assistant got laid off. Okay, I really

1528
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 3: wish I had an AI assistant who could text them

1529
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 3: so that they don't leave me, because they probably.

1530
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 2: Because the divorce would be quite messy.

1531
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be expensive. They will take.

1532
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 2: All of my stock, but I don't care.

1533
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, and like that, I mean, that is a gross,

1534
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 3: gross exaggeration. Are many of you lovely human being? Yeah,

1535
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 3: there are plenty of people who have lovely relationships there,

1536
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 3: but that is like the thing there. They are they

1537
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 3: are very cynically going after this one group who to

1538
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 3: your point earlier, they're not talking to real people. They're

1539
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 3: not going out to like fucking middle of nowhere rule

1540
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 3: Nebraska and being like what do you think of this?

1541
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 3: Because they'll be like can it connect to the internet? Yeah,

1542
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 3: it needs the internet to do everything? Cool. I can't

1543
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 3: use it at all because I don't have Internet.

1544
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: I wonder and I have a real question here, and like,

1545
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 1: is it that so many problems have already been solved

1546
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 1: that it's harder to find new ones, like or that

1547
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: the new ones we find are too niche and too

1548
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: narrow and too because you can't dedicate Google's resources to

1549
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: solving like a.

1550
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 3: Fixable problem is I would love to just say, fix

1551
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 3: my schedule for the week? Oh, I mean same, right,

1552
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 3: Like that should be easy.

1553
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 2: You shouldn't have been lying about this. I'm calling you

1554
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 2: out Motion, you ossholes, all right, you motherfuckers. I see

1555
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 2: you on Instagram every goddamn day. I've supercharged my adhday

1556
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 2: with motion. Fuck you, it's not how it works. You're

1557
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 2: a bunch of scumbag. I'm so sorry that's a little much,

1558
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 2: but you light I loaded your goddamn product, and it's

1559
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 2: like I'll rearrange your SCHEDULEM like go, and it just

1560
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: it like tries to like suggest I do something once

1561
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 2: like that does not work. What the fuck you do?

1562
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 2: And I just don't trust it anymore and it doesn't

1563
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 2: do it. And I cannot find any real users. I'm

1564
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,600
Speaker 2: sure they exist, but that's the thing. It's that is

1565
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 2: a problem to be solved. But I also think you're

1566
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 2: right in the there are no big problems, right, I

1567
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 2: feel like no more lands to.

1568
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: Conker, tens of thousands of little problems and little niche

1569
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: like issues and certainly stuff that I run into every

1570
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 1: day that shouldn't be a problem. And Google Home is

1571
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 1: what you know, over a decade old, and those things

1572
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 1: are just absolutely trash. But like those are little things.

1573
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: There's one light in my room doesn't go off with

1574
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 1: the rest of it goes like no one's gonna Those

1575
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: are troubleshooting bug fixes. Like we were not doing this

1576
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:00,639
Speaker 1: whole maps thing again. We're not. We're not saying like, hey,

1577
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: you know how it's hard to get around the city,

1578
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 1: or you know how you got to print out map

1579
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 1: quest directions, Like no, we drove down every road on

1580
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: the planet, and now you have Google Maps. Yeah. Like

1581
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: I feel like those big ambitious problems just don't don't

1582
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 1: obviously present themselves.

1583
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 2: We do need to go back to this idea that

1584
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 2: there are no more lands to conquer. It's the thing

1585
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 2: I've talked about before, that there are no more big problems.

1586
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 2: And I think we're finally maybe this is the first

1587
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 2: time in history we're really being made to reckon with

1588
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 2: the fact of how these companies make money because it

1589
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 2: consumers are perhaps dealing with a death by a thousand

1590
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,719
Speaker 2: cuts right now. It's the ten ten million little problems

1591
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 2: we face, which are usually a response, sorry, a result

1592
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 2: of technical debt. It's just things built on top of things.

1593
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 2: People I've talked to inside of Google have said this,

1594
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 2: that they just build shit on top of other shit.

1595
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 2: Google Home one of the most evil apps of all times,

1596
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 2: invented by the devil to separate you from your thermostaff

1597
01:09:57,400 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 2: But that is a result of them being like, Okay,

1598
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 2: we've brought net Tony Foddell. Yeah, genius, genius guy. They've

1599
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 2: got these amazing They've revolutionized the smart I'm not sure

1600
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 2: if any of you remember when the Nest came in.

1601
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 2: That was a huge deal. You had this shitty honeywell

1602
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 2: thing and Nest actually worked and it worked, did exactly

1603
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 2: what you wanted to look. It looked cool, but it

1604
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,719
Speaker 2: also very satisfying. And guess what, it worked. It actually worked,

1605
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 2: and they went, Wow. So we just bought Nest and

1606
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 2: they've got these cameras and they've got these thermostats and

1607
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 2: they work really well and the software pretty reliable. People

1608
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 2: like that, But we also have another app that people hate.

1609
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 2: What if we added the thing people liked to the

1610
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 2: thing people hate, then they will love it instead. I

1611
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 2: don't know what happened what actually happens to thing I'm

1612
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 2: just describing, which is someone from Google absorbed Nest and

1613
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 2: then said, you are run by Steve. Now don't know

1614
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 2: if it's or her name was Steve, but you are

1615
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 2: run by this department, and we'll build on top of it,

1616
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 2: will connect all the bits of Nest into this app,

1617
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 2: because we must have everything in one place. When you're

1618
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 2: not really solving problems other than company apps and making

1619
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: a feature work rather than a suite of things work.

1620
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 2: This is the result. And I think we're finally reaching

1621
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 2: a point where just there's not enough exciting stuff to

1622
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 2: hide from the fact that most computing experiences are cluttered

1623
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 2: and bad. Well that's many, many times of the day.

1624
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 3: That's for the fixes. Right, Like Google, I think we

1625
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 3: can all agree, is not doing great as far as

1626
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 3: like search goes right. Like you go and you search

1627
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 3: something on Google, it is so much worse. Now I'm

1628
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 3: using Cogy, the paid one. At the moment, it's like

1629
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 3: it's interesting. I'm still trying it out, but it doesn't

1630
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 3: feel measurably worse, which is not great for Google. And

1631
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 3: that is something that could be solved and that would

1632
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 3: be a huge boot, right, Like, it is hard to

1633
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 3: find things, and these companies have all decided that they

1634
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 3: are going to solve it by just taking all of

1635
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 3: the content and then may maybe or maybe not accurately

1636
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:03,840
Speaker 3: convey Google.

1637
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 2: I was like, and then you will be able to

1638
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 2: use such to find your UPS tracking number and it

1639
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 2: will tell it when you'll get to tell you, and

1640
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 2: then when you're trying to do a return, it will

1641
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 2: automatically generate that that could happen. Yeah, you know when

1642
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 2: it just movedy.

1643
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 3: Don't worry that. Yeah, there's a lot there are these

1644
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 3: useful things. They're nowhere close to ready and then they

1645
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 3: go and they promise them way too early, and then

1646
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 3: like AI is getting poisoned. There's so much really interesting

1647
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 3: things that could have paid for a while, and there

1648
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 3: has been for a very long time, and instead they're like,

1649
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 3: what if we just make a bunch of money by

1650
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 3: pushing lying bots out into the world and that won't

1651
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 3: backfire in any way, shape or form. And it's like, no,

1652
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 3: it's already backfiring, and it's just gonna get worse. Like Google,

1653
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:53,559
Speaker 3: you shot yourself in the foot. Microsoft with being you

1654
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 3: shot yourself in the foot because you're like, what if

1655
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 3: we release these lying machines at the same time we

1656
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 3: have our garbage search engines that can't see the lies

1657
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 3: and it'll be fine. No, you've just made the web

1658
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 3: like almost impossible to navigate.

1659
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 2: And that one is very much like it was a

1660
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 2: way to sell cloud computer space. It was a way

1661
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 2: to promise the eternal growth machine could keep growing. But

1662
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 2: also like Search, I've done the episode that's a whole thing.

1663
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 2: It just feels like they're not building things for people

1664
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,719
Speaker 2: like it. Really like if I worked on Google Search

1665
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 2: and I saw them launch that, I probably wouldn't quit.

1666
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:31,640
Speaker 2: If I had a mortgage. But I would take my

1667
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 2: LinkedIn offline. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be associated with it.

1668
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 2: If you like, yeah, I deface the line vacations, Yeah,

1669
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 2: I would, yeah, vacation. But it's just someone like a

1670
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 2: in a sane society suned up. A shy would have

1671
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 2: been fired immediately, immediate. Liz sent off, Brabagar Ragavan would

1672
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 2: have been sent off. These people would have been fired,

1673
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 2: not just for but they've already not been fired for

1674
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 2: making search bad, but for publicly breaking the probably the

1675
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 2: biggest contribution tech has made ever, like at least in software, and.

1676
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:08,920
Speaker 3: Instead it's like a little hiccup and they're like, don't worry.

1677
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 3: AI is going to fix this.

1678
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,880
Speaker 2: Cow just AI is going to fix the AI pro

1679
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 2: how well, you know.

1680
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 3: That's the other part of it. They're like, well, AI

1681
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 3: will fix it because AI just needs to learn more stuff,

1682
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 3: and if it learns more stuff, we'll do that. Okay,

1683
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 3: but didn't you just there was just I think The

1684
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 3: Atlantic wrote a really great story about how they run

1685
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 3: out of stuff to tach the AI on and so

1686
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 3: they're like, what if we just make more machines that

1687
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 3: make a content from AI synthetic content data.

1688
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 2: So if you go back to the PKI episode, this

1689
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 2: is a big problem the synthetic data. And by the way,

1690
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 2: did you know that that will break them?

1691
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be great.

1692
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:46,680
Speaker 2: Habsburg Gai is well. Jaythan Sadowski calls it one of

1693
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 2: the funniest terms ever. But it's so funny as well

1694
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 2: because there are so many times, there's so many things

1695
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:55,640
Speaker 2: to fix, and just using the phone is kind of

1696
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:59,639
Speaker 2: a ball Like it's it's like you have this click

1697
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 2: click keyboard company. I'm surprised that that didn't come out

1698
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,759
Speaker 2: like one of the weird like not quite works for Apple,

1699
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:08,599
Speaker 2: but seems to get all their revenue through the Apple store.

1700
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 2: Companies like these, these ones that have just kind of

1701
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:12,600
Speaker 2: bubbled up and hung around in a good way. Like

1702
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 2: it's just solving a very specific knee.

1703
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 1: Right right, very like specific.

1704
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:20,599
Speaker 2: There are plenty of people who don't like clickie, who

1705
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:22,840
Speaker 2: want a clickie keyboard, people who like keyboards, like that's

1706
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 2: a thing that you can connect to a person who

1707
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 2: does not about.

1708
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,639
Speaker 3: Kim Kardashian bowl one, right, that is famously a thing

1709
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 3: she loves.

1710
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 1: One of the first things I learned about being on

1711
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: the side of the business and I'm not allowed to

1712
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 1: talk about the customers stuff. Give me the permission.

1713
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 2: But yeah, I hear Henry clutching his clicks as his

1714
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 2: last words. Well, I like the device. No, it's it

1715
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 2: sucks as well. And getting back to something of saying

1716
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 2: earlier as well, I want to be excited about this

1717
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 2: stuff I loves.

1718
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 3: Is there anything you're excited about?

1719
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,600
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, that's a good like the steam Deck. The

1720
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 2: next I genuinely believe, and I know the o led

1721
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 2: was the second one. No, that's not what I'm talking about.

1722
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 2: Whenever they do the next steam Deck, I'm so excited

1723
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 2: for that.

1724
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 3: It's gonna be cool.

1725
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 2: I love the Steam Deck. I think it's one of

1726
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 2: the coolest things I've ever used. It is like a

1727
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 2: really great PC gaming console. PC gaming consoles, they've tried

1728
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 2: them a few times that never quite work, but this works.

1729
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 2: It's a bit too big.

1730
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:32,759
Speaker 1: Play isn't great, but yeah, don't.

1731
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 3: Worry about it. It's cool and it's it's customizable in

1732
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 3: a way that you don't generally get with products nowadays,

1733
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 3: and it's just it's fun to use. Like that's that's

1734
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:43,000
Speaker 3: what I got.

1735
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 1: Like.

1736
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 3: I got into the I in Ao, I got into

1737
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 3: these weird like Steam Deck replacements, because there's a place

1738
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:49,679
Speaker 3: where I'm like, oh, something's happening.

1739
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, game play is kind of immune from this, from

1740
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: this thing, because like you can go back to a

1741
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 1: Nintendo Sweat right now. I still love my switch and

1742
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:00,160
Speaker 1: Razor kicks out a new gaming accessory every cees. You've

1743
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 1: got this crazy, ridiculous webcam that like most people don't

1744
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:05,680
Speaker 1: need but streamers love, and the RGB nabled lights and

1745
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:07,600
Speaker 1: stuff like that. There are a lot of gadgets to

1746
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 1: be had in the gaming world. I feel like if

1747
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 1: I were one.

1748
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:11,759
Speaker 2: Beginning with e I'm completely blanking.

1749
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 3: They do the lights, El Gato, they make.

1750
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 2: Really good Dane producer there, it's Eato. They make great

1751
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 2: ship as well.

1752
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 1: And production gear and camera NERD's like, there are still

1753
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: gadgets out there for specific niches.

1754
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:29,360
Speaker 3: But it's definitely niche.

1755
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're also little professions, but they're like it's specialized gear.

1756
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: It's not really a gadget. There is just yeah, plan,

1757
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: I got this weird thing.

1758
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 2: There is something exciting happening where the normalization of photography

1759
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 2: written large is pretty magnificent. The photos I can take

1760
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 2: on my iPhone with portrait mode are not my ds

1761
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 2: A lot. I've got an Alpha three, I got a

1762
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 2: Canon five DS. I've done a lot of photography, got

1763
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 2: some nice glass too. And yeah, when I take them

1764
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:55,800
Speaker 2: out and I get the right lighting, lighting, and I've

1765
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 2: I've made sure I do the settings.

1766
01:17:57,479 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 3: Right, you feel like you've earned.

1767
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 2: And I nailed and I nailed there. Sure it's great

1768
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 2: ninety eight percent. The other time, though, my phone's in

1769
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 2: my pocket and I can get a really good photo

1770
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:09,400
Speaker 2: and it's easy. I can upload it somewhere, it's easy

1771
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 2: to share with a friend. I could do a little editing.

1772
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:13,560
Speaker 2: I can make a podcast at home in my pajamas

1773
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 2: in Las Vegas. I can have it edited. There are

1774
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 2: actual things that happen that are so good in tech,

1775
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 2: and they see these things and they're like, shit, all right,

1776
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:27,559
Speaker 2: what problems to humans happen? Like I don't I don't know, yah,

1777
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 2: And they go to their assistant and like, what problems

1778
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 2: do you have and they start talking like yeah, sure,

1779
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 2: And it's just it's frustrating because if the tech industry

1780
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 2: would realize this was happening, they actually have a lot

1781
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 2: of good stuff to do. The normalization of whatever professional

1782
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 2: things are. You can record a podcast that sounds really

1783
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 2: good from home now in a way that you couldn't

1784
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:45,439
Speaker 2: four years ago.

1785
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah. Also, I think like some of this is

1786
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:51,680
Speaker 1: just it is. I don't know if you want to

1787
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 1: call it, like I've victimless. Crime is not the word.

1788
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:57,800
Speaker 1: It's like this was, this was, this was inevitable. Right

1789
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: when stuff got this good, and when when you got

1790
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 1: able to do those things that you just talked about

1791
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 1: on your phone, you have a production studio in your pocket,

1792
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 1: like we had to get here. There was there's no

1793
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,640
Speaker 1: longer any reason for Motorola to make a phone that

1794
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 1: with double action hinges.

1795
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, we figured it out. And the same thing happened

1796
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 3: in Hollywood, right like they were like, oh, superhero movies

1797
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 3: make money. What if we only did? And that was

1798
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:25,759
Speaker 3: really cool for me, a superhero nerd for two days,

1799
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:26,439
Speaker 3: and then.

1800
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:31,639
Speaker 2: I was like, that's a really good example because they

1801
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 2: saw that superheroes did well. What they didn't realize was

1802
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 2: the movies were good and the actors were good in

1803
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:40,639
Speaker 2: the roles. Iron Man didn't do well because people love

1804
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 2: the concept of Tony Stark. It's because Robert Downey Junior.

1805
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:45,560
Speaker 3: Nobody I f icking knew who Tony Stark was whenever it

1806
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 3: came out.

1807
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:49,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. I Guardian's the Galaxy was good, not

1808
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 2: because of Guardians of the Galaxy, but because the act

1809
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:55,680
Speaker 2: is a very good that's excellent. Scimora like, yeah, I

1810
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 2: forget who plays pee Quill, but the guy from the Office,

1811
01:19:58,520 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 2: there's gonna be someone who's so pissed and.

1812
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:01,919
Speaker 3: It wasn't incredible.

1813
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 2: The guy from the Office, I'm like a huge guyianso

1814
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:05,479
Speaker 2: the gag because he found have a bunch of comic

1815
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,840
Speaker 2: artwork from it. But they saw that, and that's why, Yes,

1816
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 2: there you go. I have the guy from that show

1817
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 2: with person Trace Williams. Yeah, treat Williams. Sorry. So the

1818
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 2: thing is they see that, and then they spilled out

1819
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 2: all these ship ones. They're like, what what don't you

1820
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,720
Speaker 2: like about it? They're all three hours long. That's more

1821
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 2: superhero you fucking ingrades.

1822
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 3: And just take your slop.

1823
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:32,560
Speaker 2: You don't want your slot, take your slop. And I

1824
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:34,639
Speaker 2: guess that maybe we are in tech slop era.

1825
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 3: We are in tech slop era.

1826
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 2: Oh no, we're actually in tech slop era. That's the

1827
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 2: title of this episode.

1828
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 3: But it is we're in this moment where it's like

1829
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:50,880
Speaker 3: we they are more focused on their bottom line. They're

1830
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:53,960
Speaker 3: more focused on pleasing people who don't care about the

1831
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 3: technology than actually making good technology. And there's there's a

1832
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 3: lot of good examples where that's not the case. We've

1833
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 3: talked about a lot of those here, but a lot

1834
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 3: of it is just garbage. And so for me, that's

1835
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 3: why I go and I mess with these steam deck

1836
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 3: competitors and eat ink devices because that's the areas where

1837
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 3: it feels like, yeah, there is the slop, like right now,

1838
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 3: and tell Panos does something about the Kindle garbage device.

1839
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,000
Speaker 3: I do not want one in my house. Sorry to

1840
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 3: everyone at Amazon. Fix it. But these other Onyx books

1841
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:25,559
Speaker 3: is making like really really cool interesting stuff here. It's

1842
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 3: not great yet, but they're trying. And every time, like

1843
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 3: I write a review, then the next thing comes out

1844
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,680
Speaker 3: and it changes little and I'm like okay, then I

1845
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:36,840
Speaker 3: feel very powerful, and then I just want to like

1846
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 3: write a hole like here's what I want actually from it,

1847
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 3: and then I'm worried that I'm got too close, I

1848
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 3: got too into it.

1849
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:45,680
Speaker 2: It's funny though, that you're afraid to write that, right,

1850
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:48,759
Speaker 2: just be like fix it, yeah, because like you're afraid

1851
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 2: the company would be mad when the company should.

1852
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, no, then I'm no. I'm more afraid that,

1853
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,240
Speaker 3: like I'm doing labor and not getting paid for it.

1854
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:57,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm getting paid for it, but like.

1855
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:00,640
Speaker 1: Right, the unpaid consulting check is not.

1856
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 3: Yeah it where's my consulting check now?

1857
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 1: But I wonder about the Actually, that's what I've been

1858
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:06,559
Speaker 1: thinking about kind of weirdly for the past few minutes.

1859
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 1: It's just like, there is still obviously really good reporting

1860
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,760
Speaker 1: out there. There are still really good gadget reviews out there,

1861
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 1: there's still people calling companies to account for for the

1862
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:17,240
Speaker 1: the stuff we've been talking about for two hours. But

1863
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 1: I do wonder how much disruption is actually being introduced

1864
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:27,680
Speaker 1: by this kind of like rise of influencer marketing that

1865
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:29,400
Speaker 1: kind of like there's clouds the whole thing, and nobody

1866
01:22:29,439 --> 01:22:31,559
Speaker 1: can tell the difference. I found I started to find

1867
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:34,560
Speaker 1: fifteen years or twelve years ago that people could not

1868
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 1: tell the difference between sponsored content and.

1869
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 2: Even when you lead in quite aggressively, yeah.

1870
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:45,919
Speaker 1: Because well, oh, I'm like I tweet and someone replies

1871
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: asking a question that I've answered in the original tweet,

1872
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:51,160
Speaker 1: you know, because nobody pays attention. It's it's it's it's

1873
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:53,640
Speaker 1: an attention span problem that I don't I don't know.

1874
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:56,799
Speaker 1: We could spend another two hours talking about the changes

1875
01:22:57,560 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 1: that would need to happen in the media world to

1876
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: actually kind of make it close to good, but I

1877
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:05,160
Speaker 1: don't know that it would make a difference. Yeah, it's

1878
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 1: based on people's willingness to actually listen or ability to listen.

1879
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:11,200
Speaker 3: It's wild how many times we'll put a review up

1880
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:13,639
Speaker 3: and you know, the Vergeon, we do not accept units.

1881
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:16,680
Speaker 3: We send them back after we review them. We've got

1882
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:20,559
Speaker 3: very strict policy. Used to we wouldn't even eat food one.

1883
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:23,640
Speaker 6: And I love it.

1884
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:27,560
Speaker 3: And nowadays, like we get people being like, oh, you

1885
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:32,559
Speaker 3: just spawn con for Apple, and I'm like, rude. I'm

1886
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 3: mainly just offended more than annoyed, because I'm just like,

1887
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 3: but it's it's the same thing. There's this assumption that

1888
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 3: everyone has paid to play, and you see that even

1889
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:42,320
Speaker 3: with PR, you get a lot of these younger PR

1890
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:44,160
Speaker 3: people being like, hey, how much can we pay you

1891
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:47,559
Speaker 3: to get our product on your site. I'm like, well, nothing, absolute, yeah,

1892
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 3: And it's it's shockingly common.

1893
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 1: Mark is running, you know, a really great review on

1894
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:59,160
Speaker 1: MKBHD and then we have two weeks of discourse because

1895
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 1: somebody on Twitter with a large audience said, you know,

1896
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 1: I just don't think it's right that can kill a

1897
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:07,600
Speaker 1: can kill a company, you know with this, with this

1898
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 1: thoughtless headline, I'm like, no, that's a review of a

1899
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 1: product that didn't.

1900
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:16,600
Speaker 2: That's how this works. I think that there is a

1901
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:20,960
Speaker 2: problem within the media, that there is a fear that

1902
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 2: if you step outside of the lines in gaming for

1903
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 2: good reason. I was in there before all of that

1904
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 2: horror show happens, and now it's those people you will

1905
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 2: actually get, especially so much worse for a woman. But

1906
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 2: in gadgets there's a fear of losing access. But I

1907
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 2: also think no one wants to say anything that's particularly

1908
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 2: different because I don't know what if they're wrong, And

1909
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:45,160
Speaker 2: the answer is you've been wrong plenty of fucking times.

1910
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:48,519
Speaker 2: Why stop now? Like, no one wants to make the

1911
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:51,599
Speaker 2: step and say this sucks. I mentioned Dave three D earlier,

1912
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 2: great YouTube, Dave two D pardon us.

1913
01:24:55,240 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 1: I think three D is yeah, ten years from.

1914
01:24:57,280 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 2: Now there are And he did this thing about about

1915
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 2: the rabbit and about the pin, and he was just saying,

1916
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 2: what are these companies doing like, what is this? I

1917
01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 2: looked around, really no one said that there was a

1918
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 2: thing in Bloomberg being like, so, why is it so

1919
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:14,040
Speaker 2: good that you're doing this? It was like a month

1920
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 2: before it came out. It's just completely insane. And I

1921
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 2: understand that when you see the world, everyone's saying AI,

1922
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:25,000
Speaker 2: everyone's saying this is gonna be big. Everyone's saying the

1923
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 2: same thing. It's scary to step out. But also my

1924
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 2: Keith Olbman, have you no shame? But it really is like,

1925
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:35,840
Speaker 2: do you not want to just say what you see?

1926
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:38,920
Speaker 2: If you believe this, I actually am fine with it.

1927
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:41,960
Speaker 2: Please explain yourself because in the case of the rabbit,

1928
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 2: the case of the humane I know the argument is

1929
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 2: are it's just for affluent people. Whatever, It's still a

1930
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,160
Speaker 2: lot of money. It's still who knows whether someone didn't

1931
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 2: actually save for the rabbit or save.

1932
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:52,320
Speaker 3: A lot of people.

1933
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 2: Two hundred bucks isn't screw you if you think two

1934
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 2: hundred bucks isn't a lot. If that is your response

1935
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:02,560
Speaker 2: to something as a justification for being shit, that's uncomfortable.

1936
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 1: I always said that wasn't an excuse, especially since it

1937
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 1: was being like compared directly to the to their humane

1938
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:09,559
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, yeah, it's cost less, but still

1939
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:09,880
Speaker 1: doesn't do it.

1940
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 3: It wasna yeah, yeah, in fact, it did even much less. Yeah,

1941
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 3: and it's you can put an Android phone on it now.

1942
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:17,560
Speaker 3: I know.

1943
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 1: I wanted to do that for my video. It didn't

1944
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:20,599
Speaker 1: come out in the time.

1945
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:22,840
Speaker 2: It's just frustrating that guy who was like, oh, he

1946
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:26,080
Speaker 2: killed the product. No, they killed the products. Marcus just

1947
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:27,840
Speaker 2: said what was in front of him, right.

1948
01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:28,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1949
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 3: I had a friend, Sharie Smith, who would review laptops

1950
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 3: and sometimes she'd give him a bad score, and the

1951
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:35,200
Speaker 3: companies would call and be like, well, wh why did

1952
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 3: you give us a bad store? And you made a

1953
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 3: bad product. Make a good product and I'll give you

1954
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 3: a good score.

1955
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 1: It's that easy just talking about this off air. It's

1956
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 1: just like, no, look, I will tell you why, and

1957
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:48,960
Speaker 1: I'll take you through the process and oh, I've just

1958
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 1: narrated my whole video for you again.

1959
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:53,439
Speaker 2: Just go and if I like it, I'm gonna lose

1960
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:56,000
Speaker 2: my shit over this. I'll be emphatic about how much

1961
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 2: I like it. When I like something, I love it,

1962
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 2: I get into the guts. Val Use, how was I

1963
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 2: really enjoy it? And I wanted to do that again

1964
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 2: with take, like I actually really miss it.

1965
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:06,680
Speaker 1: And I think people What people don't get is that

1966
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 1: that's actually that makes it easier. Like when I run

1967
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,560
Speaker 1: a review, that's that's good. Yeah, it's great because I

1968
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 1: get to geek out the product. The product people are happy,

1969
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 1: which like I doesn't know what I do, but they're

1970
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 1: not yelling at me, and the commenters aren't aren't yelling

1971
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 1: at me either. You get the occasional like how much

1972
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:25,800
Speaker 1: they padio for this, and like everyone else is just

1973
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:27,720
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, yea, I was geeking out about this too.

1974
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:29,479
Speaker 1: I'm glad it's not a dumpster fire.

1975
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1976
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:32,880
Speaker 1: Great, cool, it's it's much more of a hassle to

1977
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:33,760
Speaker 1: do a bad review.

1978
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, a bad review. I mean the Vergion. This year,

1979
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 3: we did three that were like lower than average, and

1980
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:42,680
Speaker 3: people were like, what because we give the rabbit a

1981
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 3: really low score. I believe we give it like a

1982
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 3: three or or four. You know, we give it a

1983
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 3: three because the Humane Pin got a four because it

1984
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:51,320
Speaker 3: did slightly more, and then the vision pro got a

1985
01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:53,559
Speaker 3: seven and we all joke now and say it probably

1986
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 3: should have wit a six. But but even then it

1987
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:58,320
Speaker 3: was pretty like like the Vision pro actually still did

1988
01:27:58,439 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 3: the thing right.

1989
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 2: It was those moments.

1990
01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but seven should be outlined. I'm just gonna say

1991
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 1: seven should be retired.

1992
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, it's very uncommon in our space,

1993
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 3: and a lot of times if you are using the

1994
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:13,960
Speaker 3: garbage products, you don't want to talk about them, and

1995
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 3: then you're using the mediocre products and you're like, how

1996
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:17,200
Speaker 3: do I make that sound interesting?

1997
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:19,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, now we're just talking.

1998
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:21,880
Speaker 3: You're just over here talking about no no, no no,

1999
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:22,800
Speaker 3: we have a great time.

2000
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:25,720
Speaker 2: Sorry, no no, no, no, I'm hat that's why you're here.

2001
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:30,600
Speaker 2: And so it's funny. I've been asked recently to do

2002
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 2: more review stuff. But that's the thing. It's like, what

2003
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 2: if I hate it? Man, just say you hate it.

2004
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:39,560
Speaker 1: It'll be the most and I can do no.

2005
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:43,120
Speaker 2: But I can absolutely rip something a pop. Also, do

2006
01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 2: I want to like if it's like something I truly despise, fine,

2007
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:51,599
Speaker 2: absolutely the injustice inside me. But it's like something that's

2008
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 2: just kind of shit, like a six out of ten

2009
01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 2: review that sounds horrib.

2010
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 3: I mean I definitely. When I first I went from

2011
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 3: from one place that had a very kind of strict tone,

2012
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 3: and then I went to a place with a much

2013
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 3: looser tone, which was Gizmoto at that point owned by Gawker.

2014
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:10,640
Speaker 3: And I started there and I was ready to go,

2015
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 3: and I got a product in and I think, I mean,

2016
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:16,360
Speaker 3: I gave it a really bad review, and it was

2017
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:17,720
Speaker 3: mainly because I was just I was like, it was

2018
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 3: not very good, and I was like, I'm gonna dig in.

2019
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 3: And it was the meanest thing I've ever written in

2020
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:24,800
Speaker 3: my life. I even think about it now and I

2021
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:26,360
Speaker 3: cringe a little bit because it was so mean, But

2022
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:28,560
Speaker 3: it was also so fun to write. And you you

2023
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:30,439
Speaker 3: get older and you learn and you temper things, and

2024
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 3: so you're like, well, maybe I don't need to compare

2025
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:33,800
Speaker 3: it to like a baby dropped on its head and

2026
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 3: a target, Like maybe that is not appropriate.

2027
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,599
Speaker 2: So we're approaching the end now. Yeah, So for both

2028
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:43,719
Speaker 2: of you, what is actually something you really really really

2029
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:45,800
Speaker 2: love in tech? There you go, everyone on Reddit you

2030
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:49,720
Speaker 2: want something positive? Jeez, you got you mean, like like

2031
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:51,680
Speaker 2: a gadget you just really really love.

2032
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 1: I have a question, like a currently available one or one.

2033
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:57,720
Speaker 2: One that used the history of yea yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

2034
01:29:58,040 --> 01:29:59,400
Speaker 2: even from history. I don't mind.

2035
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 1: I will get I'll blend the two. I'll give you

2036
01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 1: where I think a company really got something right and

2037
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 1: it didn't do very well. Motorola, as you know, revived

2038
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:10,360
Speaker 1: the Razor for twenty nineteen. It brought back the Razor

2039
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:13,040
Speaker 1: as a foldable Android phone, and it was pretty cool,

2040
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 1: but I had some stuff wrong with it. One of

2041
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 1: the greatest. Then the next year they brought out the

2042
01:30:17,439 --> 01:30:20,400
Speaker 1: Razor of twenty twenty, and I tell you, for somebody

2043
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:26,040
Speaker 1: who is terminally nostalgic, this thing maintained the industrial design

2044
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 1: of one of the most famous phones of all time

2045
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 1: and concealed within it a really quite good Android phone

2046
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:36,080
Speaker 1: with a bad camera because it's made by Motorola, but

2047
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:38,760
Speaker 1: you know it's and it was very fragile in whatever,

2048
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,799
Speaker 1: but it was beautiful. I still I very few gadgets

2049
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 1: that I don't just throw in a drawer or return

2050
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 1: or whatever. This one I didn't have the heart. It

2051
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:47,320
Speaker 1: sits there on my shelf in the back. It's out

2052
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 1: of focus in most of my videos, and it's a masterpiece.

2053
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:53,840
Speaker 1: And I love it when a company just absolutely nails it,

2054
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:55,760
Speaker 1: and I hate it when it either doesn't have the

2055
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,679
Speaker 1: ability to market it enough or it just doesn't capture

2056
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:01,639
Speaker 1: the public imagination, and I don't think it did very well,

2057
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:05,600
Speaker 1: but I loved it. Was the coolest, one of the

2058
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:06,559
Speaker 1: coolest things I've ever reached.

2059
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 3: That was a cool fucking phone. Yeah, I think me

2060
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:14,040
Speaker 3: right now, it's arc the browser. I recently switched to it.

2061
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:16,120
Speaker 3: I won't shut up about it anywhere I go. So

2062
01:31:16,240 --> 01:31:18,439
Speaker 3: you guys have to listen to it too. You're talking

2063
01:31:18,439 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 3: about all your tabs earlier. I'm also a tab monster,

2064
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:25,639
Speaker 3: and it just works. It better, like collates the stuff

2065
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:28,799
Speaker 3: for me, so like it does the job. I waited

2066
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:31,080
Speaker 3: like two years to use it, and now it's got

2067
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:32,760
Speaker 3: a bunch of AI features that I think are kind

2068
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:35,280
Speaker 3: of stupid, But you ignore the AI features and you

2069
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 3: just focus on the core product and it rules. And

2070
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:40,200
Speaker 3: it just came out. The iPad version came out the

2071
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 3: week we're recording this.

2072
01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:42,960
Speaker 1: I've heard that a lot. I've heard a lot of people.

2073
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:45,040
Speaker 3: It's one of those things where you do have to

2074
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 3: take a minute. It's not something immediately like I get it.

2075
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:49,679
Speaker 3: You have to kind of sit with it a second

2076
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:50,840
Speaker 3: because the first time I looked at it was like,

2077
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:53,639
Speaker 3: this is stupid, and immediately all.

2078
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 2: Right, Well, from people find you Michael.

2079
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,160
Speaker 1: If people can find me at Captain two Phones mostly

2080
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:00,559
Speaker 1: on Threads, it's Captain the Number two Phones. I'm also

2081
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 1: still on X you know, I have No Choice and

2082
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:07,400
Speaker 1: Instagram and I make your YouTube videos at the Mister Mobile.

2083
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 3: And you can find me at Alex Hcrans. I think

2084
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:14,800
Speaker 3: on threads and Twitter exists, but I don't check it

2085
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 3: very often. It's also Alex Hcrans. And then I'm at

2086
01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:21,599
Speaker 3: the Verge. I write and edit at the Verge. I'm

2087
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:25,840
Speaker 3: on the Verge cast every Friday and sometimes on Tuesdays.

2088
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,000
Speaker 2: All Right, my name's ed Zychron you can find me

2089
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:32,879
Speaker 2: a w W anyway. Sorry, you've been listening to Better Offline.

2090
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:36,240
Speaker 2: We've been recording this in the beautiful iHeartRadio studios here

2091
01:32:36,360 --> 01:32:39,160
Speaker 2: in beautiful New York City. Daniel my producer, Thank you

2092
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 2: so much, Daniel. I'm calling this thing Better off Live.

2093
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:44,640
Speaker 2: Now We're going to do this in multiple cities. I'm

2094
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:46,759
Speaker 2: proud and happy that we did this. Thank you, Michael,

2095
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:48,560
Speaker 2: thank you Alex. It's been one for and thank you

2096
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:59,040
Speaker 2: all for listening. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

2097
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:01,760
Speaker 2: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song

2098
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:04,479
Speaker 2: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music

2099
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 2: and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T

2100
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:11,800
Speaker 2: T O S O W s Ki dot com.

2101
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:14,800
Speaker 6: You can email me at easy at better offline dot

2102
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:17,120
Speaker 6: com or visit better offline dot com to find more

2103
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:20,479
Speaker 6: podcast links and of course, my newsletter. I also really

2104
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 6: recommend you go to chat dot where's youreaed dot at

2105
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:25,280
Speaker 6: to visit the discord, and go to our slash.

2106
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 2: Better Offline to check out our reddit.

2107
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,920
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a

2108
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media.

2109
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:35,360
Speaker 3: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

2110
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:38,720
Speaker 3: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

2111
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:41,200
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.