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Speaker 1: You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.

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Speaker 2: In October, I sat down at the River Cafe with

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Speaker 2: director Guillamo Del Toro for the first episode in a

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Speaker 2: new season of Ruthie's Table four. Forty guests later, season

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Speaker 2: four has come to an end, and we thought it

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Speaker 2: would be fun to look back at some of those conversations. Today,

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Speaker 2: we'll be hearing from Elton John, David Furnish so he

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Speaker 2: sailed Dona, Josh Brolin, Bella Freud, Alice Walters, and we'll

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Speaker 2: begin with Anthony Scarmucci, former White House communication director famously

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Speaker 2: for ten Days.

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Speaker 3: If you're ever having a bad day and you're listening

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Speaker 3: to this podcast, I want you to imagine my day

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Speaker 3: On the thirty first of July twenty seventeen, I got

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Speaker 3: I ask fire from the White House, blown into Pennsylvania Avenue,

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Speaker 3: skinned the live by the media, rolled in Margarita Sault,

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Speaker 3: and I was on the Santa Monica promenade and if

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Speaker 3: you've ever been out there at that open were promenade

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Speaker 3: on third and fourth Street. And my son at that

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Speaker 3: time he's thirty three now, but he was twenty five.

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Speaker 3: Then he put his arm around me, and he said, Dad,

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Speaker 3: are you going to be okay? It was the first

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Speaker 3: time in my life where my son was parenting me

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Speaker 3: as opposed to be parenting him. And I didn't really

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Speaker 3: remember the feeling if I was going to be okay

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Speaker 3: or not, but I remember what I said to him.

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Speaker 3: I said, yeah, I'm going to be okay. Watch what

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Speaker 3: I do with this. And I think it's very important

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Speaker 3: for kids to see their parents get through things, whatever

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Speaker 3: they may be, because then in their mind they have

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Speaker 3: space for their own failures, they have space for whatever

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Speaker 3: they come up short on in their lives where they

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Speaker 3: could say, Okay, well that's happened to my mom or

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Speaker 3: happened to my dad and they were able to get

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Speaker 3: through it. I can do.

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Speaker 2: What you described is one of the worst imaginable situations

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Speaker 2: of being fired. What was that? Tell me what that

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Speaker 2: was like?

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Speaker 3: First of all, First of all, I deserve to be fired.

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Speaker 3: We can talk about that too. Is you have to

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Speaker 3: be accountable. I should have never taken that job. I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is a joke inside the family. I mean, my

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Speaker 3: wife hates trust.

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Speaker 2: That's what the job was.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So I was the White House Communications director for eleven

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Speaker 3: days my I mean, my wife hates Donald Trump like

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Speaker 3: almost as much as Malania hates him. So I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's like way up here, and so I mean, and

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Speaker 3: she told me not to do it. And this is

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Speaker 3: a real cautionary tale. I did it for ego related reasons.

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Speaker 3: I had grown up in a blue collar family. I

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Speaker 3: went to Tufton Harvard Law School. I had started to

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Speaker 3: successful businesses, sold one in my late thirties, and so

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Speaker 3: I had some financial independence. And now I had a

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Speaker 3: chance to work for the American President. And the funny

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Speaker 3: thing about this is just a side of my bad

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Speaker 3: judgment or my immaturity. My mentor, who I totally respect,

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Speaker 3: is about ten years older than me, was given a

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Speaker 3: big job in the administration. And in December he called

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Speaker 3: me to say he wasn't taking it, and I said what,

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Speaker 3: And he said, no, I'm not going to take it.

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Speaker 3: I spent enough time with Trump to know that we're

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Speaker 3: like oil and water, and it's going to end badly

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Speaker 3: for me if I take the job. And my ego's

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Speaker 3: in the right place, and I'm not going to take

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Speaker 3: the job. But that wasn't me, Ruthie. I took the

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Speaker 3: job because my ego and my pride were driving me

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Speaker 3: to the notion that I was going to work in

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Speaker 3: the White House and help solve some problems and work

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Speaker 3: on policy and help people. I mean, it was a

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Speaker 3: little bit of idealism in there, but what there really

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Speaker 3: was was a lot of ego centers. It was filling

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Speaker 3: the self narrative of me, and it was quite detrimental.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Deersre and I almost got divorced. I missed

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Speaker 3: the birth of my fifth child I was in. It

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Speaker 3: still pains me to talk about it, but I'll share

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Speaker 3: it here. James was born on July twenty fourth, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: It was a Monday. I was with President Trump at

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Speaker 3: the Boy Scouts event in West Virginia. Deersre and I

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Speaker 3: were fighting. She was due on August eighth or ninth,

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Speaker 3: and she was delivering prematurely, a couple of weeks early.

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Speaker 3: And there's a sixty mile no fly zone around Air

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Speaker 3: Force One. So an Air Force one comes into an area,

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Speaker 3: they have fighter planes, but they also have you know,

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Speaker 3: you can't go over Air Force One. You can't fly

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Speaker 3: over that airspace. And so it was an impossibility to

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Speaker 3: get back to New York. So I missed the birth

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Speaker 3: with my son. So you have to imagine this week.

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Speaker 3: I'm working for President Trump. It is not going well

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Speaker 3: because there's a lot of internescent fighting in the White House.

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Speaker 3: Trump is doing things that a lot of us are

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Speaker 3: looking at same waves. I don't want to be involved

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Speaker 3: with that fighting with him. Then I get fired, almost divorced.

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Speaker 3: Missed the birth of my son. So again, if you're

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Speaker 3: having a bad weekend, he was having a bad week,

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Speaker 3: give me a call. I can tell you about a

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Speaker 3: really bad week. But we should take it back to food.

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Speaker 3: But I'm just saying, do you know I agree?

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Speaker 2: I know, I think. Okay, tell me who eats better,

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Speaker 2: the Democrats for the Republicans.

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Speaker 3: I had one meal with Trump in the White House

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Speaker 3: in the Blue Room.

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Speaker 2: Tell us it's like to eat.

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Speaker 3: It was on a Wednesday, and you know how I

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Speaker 3: know it was a Wednesday. Was only there for one Wednesday, kid,

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Speaker 3: so I know it was a Wednesday. So I had

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Speaker 3: beef Wellington. The son of a bitch is going to

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Speaker 3: lift the five hundred years old He eats well done

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Speaker 3: meat with ketchup. Okay, But the chef in the White

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Speaker 3: House was making a beef Wellington and he loved it.

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Speaker 3: I think he had it. You know, I probably had

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Speaker 3: like two out of five weekday nights, and so I

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Speaker 3: had beef Wellington with him in a salad.

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Speaker 2: What else did you mean with him?

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Speaker 3: You know he likes me at Hamburger's on the campaign.

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Speaker 3: Remember I did nine months of campagny with Trump, so

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Speaker 3: it was a tremendous amount of fast food. This guy

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Speaker 3: eats McDonald's French fries, quarter pounders with cheese, Jimmy John's

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Speaker 3: cold cotes.

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Speaker 2: They seemed to enjoy it. Does he sit there savoring

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Speaker 2: it or is it just getting the food down?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 3: No, no, he is a fast food maniac, by the way.

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Speaker 3: I mean he'll come off, come off the plane. Where

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Speaker 3: a campagny. He'd be like asking the cops where the

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Speaker 3: burger king went? And what do you want from burgeringh

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't want anything from.

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Speaker 2: Burg One of Zoe's Saldamia's mantras in life is feel

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Speaker 2: the fear and do it anyway? And what has it

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Speaker 2: she done? She dances, she acts, she sings, she speaks

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Speaker 2: several languages, and I think she loves to cook.

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Speaker 6: My family has been in New York since nineteen sixties

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Speaker 6: and I lived there until I was ten. From ten

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Speaker 6: to seventeen, I was in Dominican Republic. I went back

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Speaker 6: to when I was seventeen. My mom is working, my

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Speaker 6: stepdad is working, My sisters and I were finding our

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Speaker 6: afternoon sort of placements. I was working also on the

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Speaker 6: weekends at burger King and stop there.

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Speaker 2: What were you doing? I worked at Burger King And

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Speaker 2: what did you do there?

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Speaker 7: I did the drive through. You know, Hi, welcome to burging,

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Speaker 7: I take your order.

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Speaker 6: There is a lady from Guyanese, lady who is like

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Speaker 6: my and I just loved her accent. Welcome to bergecue

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Speaker 6: mate kioa. And I would I would like, I wasn't

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Speaker 6: making fun of her. I would just try to kind

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Speaker 6: of acquire this this accent because it was also like,

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Speaker 6: now that I'm back in New York, I'm reconnecting with

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Speaker 6: all these multicultures all over the place, and a lot

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Speaker 6: of a big part of them was connecting with other

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Speaker 6: Caribbean people. You know, we're from Spanish Antillas, so the

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Speaker 6: West Indies, eas English and Tillas and the British Islands

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Speaker 6: or whatever, like, we didn't really have that in Dominican Republic.

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Speaker 6: So now I'm connecting with Jamaicans, I'm connecting with people

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Speaker 6: from marou Ba, Saint Lucia, Grand Caman cool. But so

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Speaker 6: I I and Queens is definitely a very big West

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Speaker 6: Indian and so I was Brooklyn, West Indian melting pot.

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Speaker 6: So I was going bananas for the food.

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Speaker 7: It was so good.

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Speaker 6: And so I worked with a whole bunch of Caribbean people,

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Speaker 6: but we were from different parts than at Burriking and

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Speaker 6: it was fun. I feel like that's when my curiosity

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Speaker 6: over human being, behavior and who we are as people began.

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Speaker 2: I think a restaurant does teach you that. Absolutely. I

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Speaker 2: would say that, walk into a restaurant, look at the

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Speaker 2: tape of everybody having fun, and everybody has a story.

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Speaker 2: That's why. Absolutely.

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Speaker 6: And one of my managers was this woman who must

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Speaker 6: have been in her late thirties, but she drove to

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Speaker 6: work in a motorcycle. You know, she was just top

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Speaker 6: Can I get up up, Junior?

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Speaker 7: Like she would just talk like here. She just had

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Speaker 7: a way of talking.

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Speaker 6: And I just remember, I would like just doze off

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Speaker 6: observing people and hearing their accents. Because now I'm in

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Speaker 6: New York again, I'm getting to hear the world. Again,

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Speaker 6: my life was very multicultural. It was from the beginning.

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Speaker 6: I think growing up in New York, you're just around

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Speaker 6: just the world at all times. Pick a block and

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Speaker 6: you'll have like three continents and ten different countries and

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Speaker 6: you can eat, and I feel like you do get

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Speaker 6: to know people and communities through their food, And a

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Speaker 6: lot happens when you break bread with individuals you just

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Speaker 6: I don't know, there's an unspoken word that makes it

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Speaker 6: permissible for you to connect with people that look obviously different,

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Speaker 6: speak differently, smell differently from you, and yet through the

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Speaker 6: food that they're sharing with you, you get a piece

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Speaker 6: of who they are and vice versa. So New York

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Speaker 6: is that special still to this day for me.

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Speaker 2: Did you have Chinese food? Did you have any?

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Speaker 8: Oh?

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Speaker 7: My god?

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Speaker 2: Did you every Sunday?

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Speaker 6: Did you om Like the American families, they go like

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Speaker 6: every Sunday to like a diner and they'll have like pancakes.

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Speaker 6: Oh god, why would I start.

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Speaker 7: The day eating cake?

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Speaker 6: Like I don't you know, But but like I said,

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Speaker 6: I have a savory tooth. So we would wake up

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Speaker 6: and go either to Flushing in Queens, which is the

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Speaker 6: second biggest sort of like Chinatown Asian community outside of

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Speaker 6: Chinatown in downtown Manhattan, or we would just go to

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Speaker 6: Chinatown and we would.

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Speaker 2: Have dim sumthing.

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Speaker 6: You know, on Saturday nights you have Korean barbecue. Friday

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Speaker 6: nights you have Korean barbecue. Or or sometimes if my

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Speaker 6: family that was visiting from from Dominican Republic that are

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Speaker 6: half Dominican half Japanese, they were in town, we.

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Speaker 7: Would go have Shabu shabu, or you go.

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Speaker 6: You go to seventhiet Street in Roosevelt and you would

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Speaker 6: have like Indian food. That was our community there for

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Speaker 6: Indian food.

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Speaker 2: That shows a real curiosity that they really cared.

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Speaker 6: It was always through food, mind you, there was still

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Speaker 6: a simplicity. We didn't go any deeper than that. But

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Speaker 6: by the time I would meet someone that comes from

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Speaker 6: that part of the world, and if I've tried their

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Speaker 6: dish before, I felt like I already knew half of them.

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Speaker 6: Eating other world's foods feeds your curiosity and you do

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Speaker 6: remain open going Okay, so I know your dishes, some

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Speaker 6: of your dishes, like I want to know more about you.

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Speaker 2: We have good news. Ruthie's Table Before is launching on

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Speaker 2: YouTube throughout the summer we'll be posting some of our

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Speaker 2: favorite interviews across the series. To watch, go to YouTube

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Speaker 2: dot com. Slash hat symbol Ruthie's table four pod, an

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Speaker 2: open kitchen in the River Cafe, gives me the chance

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Speaker 2: to watch people having dinner with their children. David and

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Speaker 2: Elton uniquely engage with theirs, focused, listening, laughing, all four

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Speaker 2: in their own private world. Recently, sitting next to Elton

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Speaker 2: at a dinner in the River Cafe, we had no

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Speaker 2: small talk. We spoke immediately about Elton John Aids Foundation,

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Speaker 2: the polarized world we seem to be living in and

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Speaker 2: what we need to do as citizens. David and Elton

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Speaker 2: are activists. They registered their civil partnership in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and five on the first day it was legal in

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Speaker 2: the UK, leading the way for others to follow with

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Speaker 2: confidence and with pride.

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Speaker 9: I grew up after the war, so everything was.

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Speaker 2: All about early life.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 10: I was born in the council house. I lived with

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Speaker 10: my mother, my grandmother, because my father was away in

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Speaker 10: the Air Force.

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Speaker 2: Was it your mother's mother, Yes.

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Speaker 9: My grandmother. She was fantastic.

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Speaker 2: What was she like?

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Speaker 10: She was wonderful. She could cook anything and make it

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Speaker 10: taste incredible. I mean, basic ingredients were hard to get.

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Speaker 10: After all, we were russianed and bacon was partly a

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Speaker 10: no no. But she made I never remember a bad

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Speaker 10: meal or going hungry, and everything that was left over

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Speaker 10: she made into something else the next day.

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Speaker 9: And what I loved about her because I have the

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Speaker 9: biggest sweet tooth.

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Speaker 10: Her bread puddings and her apple pies, and her scones

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Speaker 10: or scones, and her victorious sponges.

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Speaker 9: Very simple. The kitchen was again, the coal cellar was

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Speaker 9: in the kitchen. It was you believe it.

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Speaker 10: The laundry was done on the stove in a boiler,

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Speaker 10: and we had a mangle to It was a very

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Speaker 10: basic upbringing. But I can never remember the smell of

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Speaker 10: cooking was always wonderful, and she could cook anything. I

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Speaker 10: fell in love with very basic, simple English food at

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Speaker 10: that point.

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Speaker 2: I think that a simple English food. As you talk

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Speaker 2: about bread pudding and apple pie, those are very They're

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Speaker 2: not easy to make, you know, And it's to do

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Speaker 2: with the ingredients and the method and the way you cook.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, and things like spotty digging cast it. I walk

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Speaker 10: into a restaurant, say in Yorkshire or something like that,

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Speaker 10: and sometimes they have things like that on the menu

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Speaker 10: to go Oh my God, which for me is just

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Speaker 10: a sheer delight. I always sometimes think that you go

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Speaker 10: to some john for instance, they have ecoes cakes, and

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Speaker 10: the Echoes cakes are incredible, and they sell it with

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Speaker 10: the cheese and it's just like wow, man from Heaven. Nowadays,

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Speaker 10: unfortunately I can't eat it because I'm semi diabetic. But

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Speaker 10: I do like those English stalwarts a lot too.

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Speaker 2: Well. Growing up, you had a mother and a grandmother

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Speaker 2: and the house and your father was where he was.

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Speaker 10: He was away in the Air Force in Aiden, and

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Speaker 10: so I didn't really see much for him.

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Speaker 9: So it was a woman's household.

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Speaker 10: My mom's sister, my aunt, was always there as well,

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Speaker 10: So I grew up with a bunch of women who

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Speaker 10: knew how to cook, which was great.

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Speaker 2: And you all sat down to meal every night together.

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Speaker 9: Yes, and we toasted our toast by the fire.

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Speaker 10: The thing about my grandmother was that because we had

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Speaker 10: a garden, we grew all our own produce because it

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Speaker 10: was so much cheaper, and my grandmother had green fingers,

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Speaker 10: so we always had fresh vegetables.

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Speaker 9: Hardly ever had processed peas.

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Speaker 10: I mean, the great advantage in those days that food

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Speaker 10: wasn't really you know, instant you did, no instant whips,

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Speaker 10: no instant.

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Speaker 9: There's mashed potato.

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Speaker 10: It was all genuinely from the garden, which was delicious. So,

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Speaker 10: I mean, I remember shelling the peas every Sunday morning.

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Speaker 10: That's that was like David, Sunday roast was very important

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Speaker 10: for the family gathering. So shelling the peas was one thing.

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Speaker 10: Peeling the potatoes with another broad being to another. So

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Speaker 10: we always had good produce because we couldn't afford to

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Speaker 10: buy them because you know, teams times were hard after

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Speaker 10: the war and the ruts, and we had a tiny

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Speaker 10: bottle of orange juice which you diluted and poured the

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Speaker 10: water into. But I never felt as if we were

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Speaker 10: missing anything.

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Speaker 2: It denied. Yeah, but neither of your mother's worked. They

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Speaker 2: didn't have to combine a career with cooking.

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Speaker 10: Your mother my mother worked all the time, and this

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Speaker 10: worked really really hard as well. And she worked in

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Speaker 10: the shop, she worked in a dairy, she worked at

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Speaker 10: the Air Force. She's always but she'd always come home

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Speaker 10: and make dinner. Yeah, she was very hard working woman,

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Speaker 10: but still cooked.

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Speaker 5: She raised Dalton as a single mom, and so you

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Speaker 5: know his ability to study and take lessons and learn

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Speaker 5: and everything. His mum worked very very hard providing for

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Speaker 5: the family to allow him to do that. That's what

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Speaker 5: got him on his path to be who he is today.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever go to restaurants?

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Speaker 10: The only time I remember going to a restaurant is

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Speaker 10: when I went to a Chinese restaurant in Harrow. We

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Speaker 10: lived in Pinna, and these restaurants suddenly became the rage.

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Speaker 10: Coffee bars were the rage before that, but we went

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Speaker 10: for Chinese meal. Was the first restaurant I can ever

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Speaker 10: remember going to, and it was just wow. We had

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Speaker 10: bean sprouts and it was just so delicious and it

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Speaker 10: was so exotic, and I remember I was so excited

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Speaker 10: to go to this Chinese restaurant.

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Speaker 9: There weren't many in the area.

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Speaker 10: One in Horrow, there wasn't certainly one in Pillar, but

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Speaker 10: it was just an incredible occasion. And that's the first

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Speaker 10: exotic food I ever really had. How old were you,

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Speaker 10: I don't know, eight nine maybe yeah?

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Speaker 8: And did you get a restaurant It was a very

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Speaker 8: very special tree. Yeah, because again it was expensive and

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Speaker 8: it was a big treat. What we never had was

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Speaker 8: fast food. But my mother was very anti fast food.

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Speaker 8: She just didn't didn't think it was good for us.

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Speaker 8: I think she was ahead of her time with that.

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Speaker 9: There wasn't any fast food when I grew up.

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Speaker 2: Fast food was spoiling the cases.

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Speaker 10: And I went to school there suddenly became There was

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Speaker 10: a Wimpy Bar when I was about fifteen. That's the

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Speaker 10: first fast food place I can remember.

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Speaker 4: My dad was more of a subservient type and my

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Speaker 4: mother was not. My mother just made things happen. She

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Speaker 4: was always making things happen, whether it was food, whether

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Speaker 4: it was whatever she was involved with. Was had a

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Speaker 4: high octane gasoline involved.

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Speaker 2: My friend Josh Brolin. So you describe Josh living on

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Speaker 2: a ranch early age, your mother taking you out of

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Speaker 2: an urban existence and into the wild, and that includes

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Speaker 2: animals and her passion for animals, her protection of animals.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell me a bit about what that was like.

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Speaker 4: As a drived out of La to a place called

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Speaker 4: Pastor Robos, California, which is about two hundred miles north

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Speaker 4: of Los Angeles. I think I was five at the time.

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Speaker 4: And she always had animals. Before that, she had cages

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Speaker 4: and so she had she ran a wildlife way station.

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Speaker 4: She would take animals who had illegally been taken out

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Speaker 4: of the wild, and she would have those people jailed,

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Speaker 4: and she would nurse those animals back to health if

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Speaker 4: they'd been defanged or declawed. She would find the most

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Speaker 4: habitable zoo. You know, she would find those lion country

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Speaker 4: safari type places. But you know, there were a lot

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Speaker 4: of There were wolves. My brother got sixty stitches in

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Speaker 4: his leg from a wolf. We clean the cages. There

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Speaker 4: were mountain lions. I have a picture right here. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you want me to show you the picture. I have

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Speaker 4: a picture of an adolescent mountain lion in my crib.

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Speaker 4: In my crib.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that you that you.

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Speaker 4: That's a mountain lion.

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Speaker 2: God.

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Speaker 4: I mean that if you look at every single picture

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Speaker 4: of me as a kid, if you swipe as my

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Speaker 4: face looks like it's the attempt to eat it off

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Speaker 4: has been had.

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Speaker 2: It makes me kind of crazy to think of that. No, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, this makes me crazy.

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Speaker 4: Oh it's insane. Yeah, it's insane. That's nothing.

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Speaker 2: And there was no protection for you. There was never

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Speaker 2: anybody around us said this case.

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Speaker 4: I would, and I don't victimize in my book. When

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Speaker 4: you read my book, I don't victimize myself, and I

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Speaker 4: don't feel victimized, but there is an indictment. I was

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Speaker 4: talking to Howard Stern about man. They said, you don't

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Speaker 4: indict your parents. They said, I do. The reality. Yes,

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Speaker 4: they're incredibly irresponsible because that was the least of it.

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Speaker 4: We had to clean those cages. You go in there

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Speaker 4: at eight years old and you have a rake and

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Speaker 4: you're looking at a wolf in the eye. But if

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Speaker 4: you look down too much, it's going to see you

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Speaker 4: as prey and weak. But if you if you confront

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Speaker 4: too much, it's going to see it as a confrontation

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Speaker 4: and attack.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember domestic life? Would you sit down to

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Speaker 2: meals with every food always on the table?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Always? That was the one thing. It's the one through

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Speaker 4: line that I remember in my childhood, because you know,

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Speaker 4: I'd wake up sometimes, my brother and I would wake

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Speaker 4: up three o'clock in the morning with my mother shaking

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Speaker 4: us and saying I want a waterburger, and then would drive,

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Speaker 4: you know, fifteen hundred miles with us in the car,

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Speaker 4: even though we.

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Speaker 2: Had school and fifteen.

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Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, fifteen hundred miles. My mother didn't fly. She

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Speaker 4: had she had been a stewardess. What is a Waterburger

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Speaker 4: Texan burger that started in Corpus Christie. It's like r

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Speaker 4: in and out Burger in America.

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Speaker 2: As it was the name of a brand and she

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Speaker 2: had a craving for it. That was it.

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Speaker 4: You'd get in the car and you'd be in the

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Speaker 4: car for four or five days.

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Speaker 2: What would that feel like?

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Speaker 9: It was? It was good.

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Speaker 4: There was something that was great about the adventure of it,

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Speaker 4: which I think is still in me my brother. It's

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Speaker 4: interesting because my brother didn't have it was my dad

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Speaker 4: describes the fight in him that that I had.

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Speaker 2: So she would with waking up at three and morning,

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Speaker 2: or having the animals that you describe so vividly in

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Speaker 2: your book. With a ranch. It was a kind of

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Speaker 2: structure of that. We would always sit down to a

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Speaker 2: meal or.

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Speaker 4: Always Yeah, that's why I say, that's the only kind

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Speaker 4: of domestic reality within our family. My dad was constantly

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Speaker 4: traveling because he was working. My mom was always looking

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Speaker 4: for something to do and something to kind of mix up,

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Speaker 4: and then there would be her cooking.

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Speaker 2: So describe her kitchen in the house.

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Speaker 4: The house was just put up for sale, so I

437
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Speaker 4: was able to see an actual picture because the ranch

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Speaker 4: is three miles from the ranch that we're on now. Okay,

439
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Speaker 4: so where I grew up is three miles away from

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Speaker 4: where our ranch is now.

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Speaker 2: Where is that.

442
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 4: Pastor Robles, California? Where is that Central Coast California?

443
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 2: How far from?

444
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 4: Four hours north of La three and a half hours

445
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 4: south of San Francisco. Yeah, Selina's valley, close to Steinbeck

446
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 4: Country and all that. But so I could see what

447
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 4: my memory was. But it's a very Spanish type, you know,

448
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 4: Spanish tiles, all handpicked by her. Yeah, and the stove

449
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 4: was always I always remember the flames, high flames and

450
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 4: the stove, and then I would get up. I don't

451
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 4: know why I started doing this. I'm thinking about it now.

452
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 4: I would get up on Saturdays usually, and I would

453
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 4: cook breakfast for my whole family. You're still making the flame,

454
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 4: the flame, the eggs over medium, over easy. I had

455
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 4: the toast, I had the bacon, I had biscuits sometimes.

456
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 4: But I don't know why. I don't know what it

457
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 4: was about. There was some meditating, obviously, I wanted to

458
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 4: please them. I loved the Maybe that was just me

459
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 4: trying to extend that thing, like you stay in bed

460
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 4: I'm going to take it together. Yeah, I'm going to

461
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 4: take care of you. It's funny, I haven't thought of that.

462
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 2: And so you think recipes or did you just instinctive? Please?

463
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 4: No, it was instinctive. It was always intinctive. And in

464
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 4: my kids, my older kids who are thirty six and

465
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 4: thirty one now, will tell you that I made either

466
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 4: the greatest food or the worst food that I would eat,

467
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 4: because if we were out at the ranch and it

468
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 4: was like, look, this is what we have, Like I

469
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 4: didn't go to the grocery store today, this is what

470
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 4: we have. So you have to experiment with what you have.

471
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 4: And sometimes that kind of experimenting would turn out brilliant,

472
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 4: and sometimes it would turn out like regurgitation. I remember

473
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 4: my daughter crying and saying, it tastes so bad. I'd go,

474
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 4: you have to eat it. Yeah, And I think that

475
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 4: was the kind of connective tissue I had of my

476
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 4: mother because the one time that my family was a

477
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 4: family family, the kind of family that you see and

478
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 4: leave it to beaver, even though it was as far

479
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 4: from leave it to beaver as you can imagine, was dinner.

480
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 4: And my mother always cooked. My mother cooked every day,

481
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 4: cooking was her thing. Cooking was her art, Cooking was

482
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 4: her canvas last.

483
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 2: Night and the amount of times that telephones were slammed

484
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 2: down or noise was made, or people running away, or

485
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 2: the anger or the fury or the that looking back

486
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 2: on that, yeah, you know, and then sitting down to

487
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: dinner with dinners calm though, which you kind of want

488
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: the food eating properly, or would they also be a

489
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 2: place for dramatic interest.

490
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 4: No, it wasn't. No, even the thing that you're that

491
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 4: you're referencing is the phone being slammed down and her

492
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,479
Speaker 4: throwing cups through a window at my dad and all that,

493
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 4: which was immediately followed by a breakfast. Immediately, I say,

494
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 4: I didn't even think that it didn't happen.

495
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: It was just breakfast.

496
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 4: We just went literally right back to this default of

497
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 4: you know, the semblance of normal, some normalcy. There was

498
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 4: nothing normal about it. Yeah, but when you look around

499
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 4: and everybody's kind of got this kind of gorgeous morning smile,

500
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 4: like like we were outside and vitamin D yeah, getting

501
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 4: ready for the day, and it's like, do you remember

502
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 4: what we were doing just like for the last four hours,

503
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 4: which was total insanity. And I think That's why when

504
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 4: I went out into the when I went out into

505
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 4: the world, it was that was the shock. The shock

506
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 4: wasn't what I was experiencing because I didn't know any different.

507
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 4: And then I got older and went out into the

508
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 4: world and started dealing with people on the level that

509
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 4: I had gotten used to, and then you see people reacting.

510
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 4: I think that's why I like being in Italy, because

511
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 4: I think people are just less they're more animated. Yeah,

512
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 4: it seems to vibe with how I was raised, without

513
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 4: the chaos, without ca Yeah.

514
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 2: My husband came for a very Italian family and he

515
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 2: they were you could he could stay out till five

516
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: in the morning, He could do everything that he wanted

517
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: to do. He didn't have to dress in a certain

518
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 2: he had to be home from meal times. That was us,

519
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 2: you know, that was the structure, you know. And Jake

520
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 2: Jilanov said he opened up his podcast saying that food

521
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: was the only functional thing in a dysfunctional family, you know.

522
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 2: And I know him and his parents and his sharans

523
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 2: and you know, but he said it as can I

524
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: say that. And he talked about going to the market

525
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: and I don't know. Westwood of Pacific Palisades with his

526
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 2: father and seeing seeing the food, and what about your

527
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: mother's dinners.

528
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 4: Her dinners were there was a lot of Mexican food,

529
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 4: there was a lot of Italian food, there was a

530
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 4: lot of Southern food. Did you think so? My mother

531
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 4: she learned at our ranch. Now we have an entire,

532
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 4: very large bookshelf of just her cookbooks.

533
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: I would love to see those sometimes.

534
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 4: Oh God, I love tell me about I mean, they're

535
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 4: all original cookbooks from decades. You know. I have in

536
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 4: the book too. Let me see if I can find it.

537
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 4: There's a thing that in the beginning.

538
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: She said that she introduced herself as in restaurants. She

539
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 2: would go into.

540
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 4: Restaurants, she would always end up in the kitchen, that she.

541
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 2: Would end up in the kitchen.

542
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 4: Always, yeah, always, I think that. Let's say a dusty

543
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 4: fires she made it, and the cook in the back,

544
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 4: a lanky twenty eight year old who didn't know that

545
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 4: he was her prey for the evening. She showed him

546
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 4: how to better stir the sauce. She made him hold

547
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 4: his hand over hers as they flipped a dish in

548
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 4: a pan. She asked him who his favorite country Western

549
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 4: singers were and if he had ever been to a

550
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 4: proper rodeo. He was toast As far as I was concerned,

551
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 4: I knew it was going to be a long night,

552
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 4: and that I might as well go back out into

553
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 4: that parking lot and see what I could find in

554
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 4: the desert beyond it. Parents of the bones we cut

555
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 4: our teeth on, But they never talk about the parents'

556
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 4: own teeth. They never talk about the bite you learned

557
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 4: to see coming. I dreamed about her last night, and

558
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 4: I awoke happy but sweating, because every moment with her

559
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 4: was exciting. I couldn't just go have a meal in

560
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 4: a restaurant. She had to take over the entire restaurant.

561
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 2: Did you find it exciting or sometimes embarrassing?

562
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 9: Both?

563
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: Yeah?

564
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think both, because why wouldn't it be embarrassing

565
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 4: as a child, you know, like, don't bring attention to us.

566
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 4: But then at the same time I could tell I mean,

567
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 4: it was like living with salvad Or Dolly. It was

568
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 4: like I remember hearing my dad saying I saw Salvador

569
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 4: Dolly running down the street. It was like running down

570
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 4: Lexington Avenue with a port chopped capon. It's like there's

571
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 4: just those people. Why him, Why did he do that. Yeah,

572
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 4: why did she do that? Why did he dress that way?

573
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 4: Why were they You know, somebody wears jeans and a

574
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 4: black T shirt every day, and somebody dresses in the

575
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 4: nicest dresses. They can get versace in this and that.

576
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 4: My mom just acted the way she was, unapologetically herself.

577
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 4: And there's light growing up on the ranch. When you

578
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 4: have to feed forty eight horses are fifty eight horses

579
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 4: every morning. When you're doing it, it sucks, it's horrible.

580
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 4: It's just labor. But when you look back on it,

581
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 4: you go thank God for that upbringing. Thank God I

582
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 4: had to get up and get out into the elements

583
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 4: every single morning before I went to school. It made

584
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 4: me who I am.

585
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 2: Whenever I'm with Bella Freud, which isn't often enough, I

586
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 2: always wish I could see more of her. She's in

587
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: fashion and I'm in food. A meal is a moment,

588
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: and an outfit changes daily. Right now, I'm wearing Fella's

589
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: iconic nineteen seventy sweater. A few years ago she created

590
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: an Nemesis sweater for the River Cafe, and one of

591
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: my most treasured possessions is Abella sweater, saying Bella, this

592
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 2: Fella that in our early years, Bella's father, Lucien Freud,

593
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: came almost every day to the River Cafe. When with Bella,

594
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: we were told never to interrupt, as this was their

595
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: precious time. Thank you, Ruthie. It's so nice to have

596
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: you here. And it is true you did come with

597
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: your dad.

598
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, and sometimes he do risk me away when I'm

599
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 11: here and I don't know.

600
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 7: I love it.

601
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 11: You beckon to me and say come here, and then

602
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 11: you stand behind a corner.

603
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 7: Are they talking?

604
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: What are they doing? In this world? We have to

605
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: talk or just talk about each other. What are your

606
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: memories of your dad coming here?

607
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 11: I remember we came here when it first started. We

608
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 11: jump in the car and then he drove very fast,

609
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 11: terribly terrifyingly. I'm very good at kind of masquerading a calmness,

610
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 11: and some of it's learnt from sitting next to him

611
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 11: while he drove in this petrifying way. He'd drive very

612
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 11: fast towards something and then swerve suddenly, so then we'd

613
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 11: arrive and.

614
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 7: Lived another moment. Great food.

615
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 11: And I remember he also used to come here with

616
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 11: Lee Barry and Lee used to learned all about food

617
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 11: from eating out with Dad and coming here and I

618
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 11: always remember this moment, him saying, yes, the poach pears

619
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 11: are very good.

620
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 7: It was so lovely.

621
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: I remember one day, Yeah, he came and we had

622
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: a sign on the door because we were painting the restaurant.

623
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: We closed for lunch. We only opened for lunch, and

624
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: I said, listen, I'm really really sorry that you know,

625
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: we're closed today, but I'll cook you something. And he said,

626
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: I have a better idea. I'm going to take you

627
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: out to lunch. And yeah, he took me to Kensington

628
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: Place and we had lunch. He was just fantastic. Yeah,

629
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: you know, spontaneous and kind and just caring and talking

630
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: to me and asking me about me, you know, and

631
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: it was very It was one of the great moments

632
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: of my life. Yeah, he was fun.

633
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 11: He was such a good company, and he made you

634
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 11: feel so special.

635
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: I used to come in those trousers with all over them,

636
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: and you know, he was great. It was exciting. It

637
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: was very interesting. You were saying that a lot of

638
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: your experience of eating with him was in restaurants.

639
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 11: I remember going because I lived in the country and

640
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 11: i'd comp to London and all my sort of encounters

641
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,239
Speaker 11: with him as I got to know him when I

642
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 11: was little were we used to go to marine IC's

643
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 11: when I was very small, and then he would take

644
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 11: us to this Greek restaurant in notting Hill. But it

645
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 11: was always a meeting to do with being in a

646
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 11: restaurant and the food. I would be quite nervous, so

647
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 11: the food was probably secondary, but that was the context.

648
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 11: And then you know, when i'd sit for him when

649
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 11: I moved to London when I was sixteen, we'd work

650
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 11: and have this break and zoom out, go somewhere very

651
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 11: fast and come back. But then sometimes he would cook.

652
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 11: Usually I would do a night painting, so I'd arrive

653
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 11: before the life painted at night and he would do.

654
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 7: So you'd have day sitters and night sitis.

655
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 11: And so he could work all the time and there'd

656
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 11: be like this wonderful routine of arriving. And he used

657
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 11: to have Lapsang soushong tea, so we'd have some tea

658
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 11: and then he would have things like liver pattern and stuff.

659
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 11: I mean, it was just from the local. You know,

660
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 11: it wasn't fancy or anything, but it was something that

661
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 11: actually tasted. It was delicious, and so it would always

662
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 11: be excited. There was almost nothing in his fridge too,

663
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 11: so between the two of them, but what there was

664
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 11: was really good. So we would sit around and talk

665
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 11: and read or whatever and have this tea and things,

666
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 11: and then we'd start working.

667
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: And what was that like for you at that point

668
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: you were sixty six? I'd sit there, would he talk

669
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: to you? Yeah?

670
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 7: And we always got on.

671
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 11: Even as a baby, we had a close relationship. But

672
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 11: it was really the start of me getting to know him.

673
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 11: And then it was nice to be able to do

674
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 11: something for him, which was sitting for him.

675
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 7: So I was good at that.

676
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: And he would talk to you and he would, yeah,

677
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: he would How long would they go on?

678
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 7: So the first session.

679
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 11: Would be an hour, and then it would be forty

680
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 11: five minutes. That's when I would get slightly uncomfortable, and

681
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 11: he'd say, would you like a break? And so we'd

682
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 11: have a after every forty five minutes, we'd have a break,

683
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 11: and he would talk a lot, And he must have

684
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 11: loved that it was to have your daughter sitting there

685
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 11: and to be working, and to be painting or drying,

686
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 11: and to have you there must have been very important

687
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 11: to him, don't you think.

688
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 7: Well, I suppose he could see that I was really invested.

689
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 7: I love sitting for him.

690
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 11: I was so interested in everything, and I learned, you know,

691
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 11: he like people I was interested in, like Jean Cocta

692
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 11: and Dagger Leven, all these people. And then he'd tell

693
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 11: me about Fat Swaller and I'd learn about things that.

694
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 7: I didn't know.

695
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 11: And he was playing music sometimes he had he had

696
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 11: a record player, and sometimes he'd put on Fat Swallow

697
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 11: or sometimes Johnny Cash.

698
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 2: He liked Cash.

699
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 11: And then we'd dance around the edge of the room

700
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 11: because he had this very nice carpet, so he'd say, oh,

701
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 11: careful of the carpet, and then we but.

702
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 7: We dance around the edge of it. It was not very.

703
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 11: Often, but sometimes. And then sometimes he would cook a grass.

704
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 11: He loved them.

705
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 2: He did like game that. Actually, it's interesting that you

706
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: say that, because I kind of remember in game season,

707
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: did at least have a grouse or a party.

708
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 11: Yeah, he'd get them from Alan's in Mount Street, which

709
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 11: I don't think exists anymore, but he could.

710
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

711
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 7: It was a really good cook and it was very simple.

712
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 11: He had a sort of crummy old cooker, and he

713
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 11: was very specific and particular about how things were, and

714
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 11: everything tasted amazing. And so it was exciting. And then

715
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 11: even if he made scrambled eggs, he would it would

716
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 11: just be completely delicious. And he had olive oil and

717
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 11: good salt and Perrier water he was It was the

718
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 11: first time I ever saw bottled water. And then he'd

719
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 11: have very very good wine and champagne sometimes and.

720
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 7: Would you like it, would you like a glass?

721
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 11: You know, everything was just it was like, you know,

722
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 11: somewhere between being in a squat and a top restaurant.

723
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 11: It was just all the sensation and the experience and

724
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 11: the tail. It was unforgettable. And so I've always been

725
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 11: more interested in that sort of condensed taste rather than

726
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 11: an abundance of food.

727
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: Imagine estate bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for the

728
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our subscription

729
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: is available for six or twelve months, with each oil

730
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with each delivery.

731
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: It's a perfect way to bring some River Cafe flavor

732
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: into your home, or to show someone you really care

733
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: for them with the gift. Visit our website shop the

734
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 2: Rivercafe dot co UK to place your order now. Alice,

735
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear your story of starting Chapanese, and

736
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 2: I know that it was a most part of your

737
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: activism as a president in the early sixties when the

738
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: United States was in the tumult of the free speech

739
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 2: movement of the Vietnam War and you were at Berkeley.

740
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 2: Tell me what really inspired you to start a restaurant.

741
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 12: Well, it began really in that free speech movement with

742
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 12: the leadership of Mario Savio, and he said said to

743
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 12: all of us, you need to visit other cultures, understand

744
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 12: the way people think around the world. And he said,

745
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 12: if you can, you should take off your junior year

746
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 12: and go to some other country. So I did. I

747
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 12: went to France in nineteen sixty five, and it really

748
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 12: did change my life, not just because of the food

749
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 12: that was so extraordinary, but because of the beauty of

750
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 12: the culture of France. I fell in love with Notre Dame,

751
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 12: sitting by the sand drinking a glass of wine. I

752
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 12: walked everywhere. I loved the farmer's markets. And I came

753
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 12: back home and I just said, I want to live

754
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 12: like the French. And I had friends who felt the

755
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 12: same way, and in our naive day, we thought, well,

756
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 12: maybe if we open a little French restaurant. The food

757
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 12: will come, and it.

758
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 2: Did it sure did. Did you have chefs who knew

759
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 2: how to do a meal for people who came in

760
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: at seven? Some people came in at nine, Some people

761
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: wanted fish, some people wanted how did you?

762
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 12: Did you know how to welc had one meant you.

763
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 12: I wanted it to be like the little restaurants in Paris,

764
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 12: where you ate things that you may not have ever

765
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 12: had before, that we could curate according to the season

766
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 12: and what we love to cook well strangely and over time.

767
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 12: And because it was very affordable, people liked it a lot,

768
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 12: and they came because it was in an old house,

769
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 12: and they came and they felt like they were eating

770
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 12: at home. And that is a really part of I

771
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 12: think my Monestsory training, which said that you need to

772
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 12: appeal to all of your senses because they are our

773
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 12: pathways into our minds. And so I wanted the restaurant

774
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 12: to smell good. I used to burn rosemary up in

775
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 12: front of the restaurants, so it smelled like the South

776
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 12: of France. And I knew that a fireplace in the

777
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 12: kitchen with given aroma. I knew that candles on the

778
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 12: table would be beautiful, but it was taste I was

779
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 12: looking for when I got back from France. I wanted

780
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 12: to eat and live like the French, and I didn't

781
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 12: find taste until I found the farmers.

782
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: When you say you wanted to eat like the French

783
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: age and shopped like the French shopped, can you tell

784
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: me about what that meant.

785
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 12: Well, it meant that you only ate food in season,

786
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 12: and only local food.

787
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 4: You know.

788
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 12: I fell in love with those wild strawberries in the hall,

789
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 12: and all of a sudden they were gone, and they said, oh,

790
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 12: you have to go up in the woods and pick them.

791
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 12: And I just didn't believe that people spent their time

792
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 12: doing that and bringing them down from the woods and

793
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 12: selling them to the restaurant tours. And of course at

794
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 12: the end that's what we did. We really bought the

795
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 12: food directly. And when we started doing that at Chipen's,

796
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 12: everybody in the state wanted to sell to us because

797
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 12: we left out the middleman.

798
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 2: Guermo del Toro in his extraordinary movies Pans Labermyth The

799
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 2: Shape of Water, Pinocchio takes us to his worlds. But

800
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: when he and I met in the River Cafe, my

801
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: world we started talking and we didn't really stop for

802
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: two hours. When our conversation moves to the really important

803
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: topic of the day, Ta Kila Gama asked for two bottles,

804
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: announcing he wanted to teach me the ultimate way to

805
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 2: experience his and my favorite drink. Can you just tell

806
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: me and everybody else what is tequila? What is the

807
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: definition of.

808
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 13: Well, it needs to come from the region build like

809
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 13: Champagne or Bordeaux, or it needs to come from the

810
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 13: region of Tequila, which is which is a town in Jalisco,

811
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 13: which is where I am from, you know. And the

812
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 13: agave plant which takes so long to grow, you know,

813
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 13: and you can harvest it. It takes so many years

814
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 13: to harvest it that the fields are very very large,

815
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 13: and it's a very fraud industry, the magay industry, because

816
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 13: the price goes incredibly off and incredibly down, and there's

817
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 13: a lot of fluctuation. And then they cook what they

818
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 13: call the pineapple, the heart of the plant, and they

819
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 13: cook it in some places, like many of the brands

820
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 13: that are now squeezing it, yeah, forcefully, you know. They

821
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 13: they just cook it fast, cook it, modern pressurize it.

822
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 13: Blah blah blah, but the really good tequila, they cook

823
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 13: it the same way with a traditional oven. They almost

824
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 13: caramelized it, and they.

825
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 2: Roasted roast yeah, and caramelized yeah.

826
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 13: And then and then obviously they have to extract the

827
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 13: juice from the plant. The heart of the plant gives

828
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 13: you that. And then it has to be aged and

829
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 13: it takes quite a bit. And depending on on how

830
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 13: long they aged and in what type of wood, that

831
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 13: gives the tequila characteristics.

832
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 2: So this is Fernando, Fernando, what do we serve in

833
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: the river cafe?

834
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 13: When you serve all the Bonehulu range, the Blanco, theo

835
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 13: and the nineteen forty two and Papatio blanco.

836
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 2: Okay, so what do we what is that one? This

837
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: is actually the first time I'm seeing this bottle.

838
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 9: I did some research.

839
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: I like it.

840
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 9: It's very woody, very very woody.

841
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: So name the tequila. What is it called? Okay? So

842
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: I found that this morning in my the telegraph I

843
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 2: think it was a telegraph of the Times did the

844
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: questionnaire with me, and they said what is your luxury?

845
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 2: I said, well, I have two luxuries. One is going

846
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 2: to museum when it's closed, because you have and the

847
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: other luxury is tequila. So I didn't get many museums.

848
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: But now when anybody comes to my house they bring

849
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 2: me tequila.

850
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 13: I thought it would be good to bring you things

851
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 13: from my hometown or my region to go with the tequila.

852
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 13: Somebody in, mister help. It's nice in the fruit jam,

853
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 13: it's sort of like a queen space, you know, but

854
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 13: it's made those several fruits. And again this is this

855
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 13: is from my region.

856
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 2: When we when we serve cheese, I like cheese as

857
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 2: it comes, but very often in it. So you'll find

858
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,240
Speaker 2: that a cheeseplate or cheeses will come with a jam

859
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 2: with the sweet, especially in the north of Italy. And

860
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: we we make our own. Yeah, we make a fig,

861
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 2: we make a quince, and we serve it with cheese,

862
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 2: don't we We have the cheese clap Okay, what about

863
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: the we have here the paste, the paste, and we

864
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 2: have the cheese. Tell me about the cheese. Well under order.

865
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 13: My favorite cheese in the world for me with with

866
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 13: what sweet thing is the Manchego, Because the Manchego to

867
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 13: me is like a milkshake. It's like really really milky,

868
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 13: is really really deserty. I'll think it with a cookie.

869
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 13: What I like is a combination of a very raw cookie,

870
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 13: you know, with a with the manchego and a little

871
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 13: bit of the paste.

872
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 9: Oh thank you. This is very nice.

873
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's strike, come on, try one a biscuit.

874
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 2: Let's get a biscuit. Yeah, I'm interested in their favorites.

875
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 2: These digestive biscuits. You wouldn't get these in Mexico, would you?

876
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 2: So what would you eat this with? Without it? This

877
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 2: is a very get a wheat cracker because he's in

878
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 2: sightly sweet.

879
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 13: They the maial with this on them, you'll see why.

880
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 5: I like it.

881
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 2: Okay, with this and with this. So I'm putting half

882
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: a digestive biscuit and now I'm going to put the

883
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 2: jam and then I'm going to take a good Oh

884
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 2: my god, oh my god.

885
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 13: Oh, Monday is Sunday and I'm seeing the Lord.

886
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: Life is good. Huh, this is really good.

887
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 9: This is your lucky day right now.

888
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 2: Fernando here with two hundred and thirty five people in

889
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: the restaurant working, but he's here with us like they

890
00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 2: can manage next week heading into the summer break, I'll

891
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 2: be back with more highlights from season four.

892
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: See you then, thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table

893
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: four in partnership with Montclair