WEBVTT - COVID After Two Years 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.880 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay, a daily with me. 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:20.920 Your girl Danielle Moody in quarantine in the home bunker, folks. 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:26.040 So while your girl was out on vacation, or dare 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.920 I say, before she actually got to take her vacation, 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:34.519 I contracted COVID for the very first time. And you know, 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.519 I have to tell you that the irony is not 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.240 lost on me. That of course I would get COVID 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:44.280 when I never take a vacation and then decide to 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:48.160 actually take one before midterm elections and the craziness of fall, 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.800 and then I would get it literally hours before I 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.200 was headed out for my trip. I will tell you, 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.040 as I do in my interview coming up with our 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:05.039 friend doctor Jonathan Metzel, that getting COVID wasn't for me, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:10.319 just about this symptom surrounding it, which thankfully mine have 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:13.520 been very mild. You'll probably hear me for the next, 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.679 you know, a couple of days, maybe the next a 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:20.319 week or so, seemingly a bit more nasally, maybe interrupted 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.240 by a coff or so. But I've been lucky, right 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:25.360 as we all know. I'm sure that there are many 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.319 of you that have contracted COVID. Or know somebody and 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.399 maybe you know, before we had the brilliance of science 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:35.560 and vaccines lost someone as I did to COVID. What 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.840 I will tell you is that my first feeling upon 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:46.679 knowing that I was positive was absolute, full fucking emotional breakdown, 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:53.320 Like I burst into tears, because for so long it's 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:58.080 like you are masking and dodging and washing hands and 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.400 you know, eating outdoors and thinking that you're doing all 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:06.480 of the quote unquote right things, and then poof, you know, 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.600 you feel like a failure, or at least that is 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.560 how I felt. You know, Jonathan will tell me later 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.280 that you know this is not like a moral failing. 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.560 COVID is highly transmissible, and even if you are doing 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.960 all of the right things, unless you're going to stay 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.800 in your bunker and never leave, you are going to 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.280 probably contract COVID because everyone else is not taking the 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.480 same precautions, is not doing all of the things that 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.120 they can do, and may not even be testing. And 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.960 so even if you are outdoors and you know, we 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:44.160 know that the latest version of COVID is highly transmissible 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.079 outdoors as well as indoors, and so it just sucks, 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.440 right like it brought up it has been bringing up 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.320 a lot of feelings for me around you know, isolation. 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:59.040 Thank God for technology is what I will say, because 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.040 I couldn't imagine going through COVID and not having access 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:08.359 to FaceTime and a computer and the television behind me, 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.720 and you know, but still, even with all of those 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:17.200 different tools, feeling really lonely. And it's not just the 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:21.800 sense of like fomo, it's just like this just real 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:26.840 deep sense of kind of sadness. And you know, well, 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.600 I'll get into this more in the conversation with Jonathan 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:34.080 and talking about the emotional as well as mental toll 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.880 that COVID has taken, you know, not just with my 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.040 own issue that I'm working through now, but obviously with 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.280 us as a country. And I realized that, like with 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.320 most things in life, just ignoring the fact that this 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.000 is happening, just ignoring how people are feeling, doesn't make 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:55.400 it go away. Earlier today I was watching a report, 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.640 you know, about the severe decline in mental health in 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.240 young people and little kids. I'm not just talking about 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.720 high schoolers. I'm talking about middle schoolers and elementary school 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.200 children and their complete decline in their mental health and 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.360 how this is yet another crisis on top of a crisis, 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:17.040 on top of a crisis. And the idea is that, 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.400 you know, particularly for young people, we want them to 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.480 grow up in a world and in a place where 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.760 they feel safe, because safety then allows us the ability 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.760 to dream. It's the foundation from which we build on. 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.080 But when we can't actually tell our kids that you're 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.240 going to be safe when you go to school, when 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.400 they see headlines each and every day of mass shootings 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.320 that are taking place in buildings that are just like theirs, 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.880 right when you know one year they're masking, one year 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.360 they're not. One minute it's remote learning for a little 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.920 bit that ends up being you know, for a year. 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.760 Another time school is being shut down for something else. 0:04:54.800 --> 0:05:00.440 So what I realize is that we have taken away anxiety, 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.919 has taken away this feeling of safety. Right And people 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.359 will say, well, safety is an illusion, but it's an 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:11.080 illusion that we wanted to protect for young people because 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.279 what does it mean to have generations of children growing 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.599 up into adolescence and then adulthood that have no sense 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.279 of security? How will they learn to navigate? What will 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.560 that mean for how we all engage with one another, 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.719 how we work, how we live? And I don't think 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.719 that we think often or hard enough about all the 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.160 ripple effects of what we've been living through and dealing 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.720 with over the past two plus years going on three 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.520 in a couple of months. So you know, I tell you, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.360 as somebody that has been spending the last well when 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:48.920 by the time that you listen to this, it will 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.440 be nine days and CDC says ten days, well, five 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.800 days of isolation and a mask and then five more 0:05:55.880 --> 0:06:00.320 days of masking. But being in the population, it fucks 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:04.400 with your mind, it really does, and it messes with 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.039 your emotions. And so you know, as I often say 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.760 to people, and I need to remind myself to have grace, 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.440 you know, to give myself grace if I tell you 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.360 some of the things that I had been doing. You know, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:23.479 I had doubled down, tripled down in meditation when after 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.080 the first day when I really had you know, just 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.719 like really tired, you know, pretty much had kind of 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.760 slept all day. And again at that point, I didn't 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.520 know that I had had COVID. I just had taken 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.080 Benadryl the night before and I took it late. And 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.560 you know, sometimes when I take over the counter sleep 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.280 medication or medication that have sleep beside effects to them. 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.200 I often feel weird the next day for a while, 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.400 which is why I try my best not to really 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.840 take those things and to use more so you know, 0:06:55.920 --> 0:07:00.479 home remedies or natural remedies. So I didn't put it 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.760 together until the following day. Then I would take the 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.160 test and I would find out that I had COVID. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.720 But you know, I continue to say that we are 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:14.680 going through and living in such absolutely extraordinary times that 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.040 if you aren't giving yourself grace or providing yourself with 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:22.080 grace and also for those around you, you know you 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.280 will lose it. You'll feel fucking crazy. And you know, 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.600 on the days that you are feeling crazy and want 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.080 to throw up your hands and want to scream, you know, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:34.040 do that right, like do whatever it is going to 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.040 allow you to be able to move through without ignoring 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.640 the they're there, right. And I think that for me, 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:46.040 it was recognizing that this is never going to end, 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.400 that we could, we did have an opportunity to get 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.000 rid of COVID, and we chose not to because of politics, 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.640 because of hate, because of lies, and because of bullshit, 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.200 and so you know, I am fearful for the long 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.960 term effects of what all of this means for us, 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.680 for our society, for how we live, for how we work, 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:10.720 and how our children develop over time into adults. I 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.760 think it will be really really interesting to see. So 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.480 coming up next my conversation with our friend and in 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:22.000 house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Hey, I'm David Plots of 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:27.080 Slates Political Gabfest. As another election season accelerates, it can 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.880 be tricky to sort through all the noise and the news. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.280 Each week on The Gapfest, John Dickerson, Emily Bathalona and 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.080 I decipher the headlines, break down the races, and tell 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:40.199 you what issues really matter. We do not always agree. 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.760 We definitely do not always agree, but we always deliver 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.480 thoughtful debate and we always have a good time. So 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:53.960 subscribe to Slates Political Gapfest, new episodes every Thursday. Hey there, 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.200 I want to tell you about another podcast I think 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.080 you'll love. The Brown Girls Guide to Politics, hosted by 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.720 a Shanty Goal, the president of Emerge BGG, is the 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:04.920 one stop shop for women of color who want to 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.840 hear and talk about the world of politics. Join Ashanti 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.439 this season as she talks to incredible women of color 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:12.880 who are changing the face of politics and tackling some 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.880 of the most important issues basing the United States, from 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.080 reproductive justice to voting rights, to climate change and more. 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:24.320 Tune in every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. Friends, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.800 I am very happy to be back with the first 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:34.080 show since my vacation and since the Labor Day holiday. 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.400 And there's nobody to return better with than our friend, 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:43.600 doctor Jonathan Metzel. I have bad news. I guess good 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.920 news and bad news. I guess to tell people, because folks, 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.720 you've all been wonderful why I have been away. And 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.200 guess what your friend got while she was on vacation. 0:09:54.360 --> 0:10:01.880 Jonathan covid for the very first time, after two years 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.560 of dodging this like a fucking whack a mole and 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:09.880 seemingly doing all of the right things, I will tell 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.640 you that I contracted COVID at an outdoor family party. 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:20.720 And you know, have had fairly mild symptoms. You know, 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.439 some days tired, you know, you know I have the 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.000 awful cough and all of those things. But I will 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.600 tell you that one of the first feelings that I had, Jonathan, 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:33.800 was of feeling like a failure, like a moral failing. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.720 Is is exactly how I felt, And you know, I'll 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.400 tell you that. Andrew was kind enough to tell me, 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.800 He's like, it's not a moral failing, Like it's it's 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:48.920 wildly transmittable right now. But that's how I felt. Is 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.440 that normal? Like do people tell you that when they 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:56.560 finally do get COVID that they feel like they're the 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:01.280 ones that have clearly done something wrong? Well, first, let 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:05.360 me just absolve you. Nobody knows how they got it. 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:11.160 Very often, and very often it's because other people are 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:12.839 nowhere near as careful as you. So you'd be the 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.880 most careful person in the world. And if you're going 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.040 to come out and socialize, you're dependent on other people. 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.840 And also the COVID now is so much more contagious 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:28.079 than you know, your grandfather's COVID, and so um and 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.439 so I would say that the choices like stay in 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.880 your basement forever, but if you're going to go out, 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:38.160 it's it's really you know, I wish I wish more people. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:39.800 There was a great study that just came out on 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.800 masks a couple of days ago in a big infectious 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:47.000 disease journal. If everybody masks, we wouldn't have a pandemic. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:51.480 It would be over period. So you know, that's not 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:53.800 the world we're living in. And so I just think 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.760 you've been so responsible, You've been so great, and so 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.560 number one, I'll say you did not do anything wrong 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.120 except for do everything right and then rejoin the world. 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.839 And so number one, please don't feel guilty. If you 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.560 feel guilty, call me. I won't charge you. You know, 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.880 it would be totally free. That's number one. Number two 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.880 is COVID messes with your brain, right, and so people 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.720 actually have emotional responses to getting COVID because it actually 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.520 crosses the blood brain barrier. And so people do have 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.960 emotional effects to COVID. And then number three is this 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.960 kind of anticipatory thing because like people like me and you, 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:37.840 we've been so careful, as you know, I got it 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:44.680 this summer, yep, and like I felt like I kept 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.520 thinking of like twenty eight days later the zombie movie 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.120 or something like that, and I felt like, oh, I'm 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.079 just one of those zombies. I feel like I would love, 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.160 you know. So it does create a lot of emotions, 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.800 especially if you've been worried and concerned about it, especially 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.280 if it's something you've been careful about. So I just 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.400 want to absolve you of any kind of bay. Thank 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:15.000 you really you really did not Yeah, that was my 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:20.040 agnostic um, my agnostic x um. But I would just 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.160 say you didn't do anything wrong. But but it's an 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:26.320 emotional time, especially because it's something we've been worried about 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.560 for years here. Yeah, I think that that what like 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.400 was it? It was so like I was in tears, 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.240 you know, I I how often am I taking these 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.880 at home tests. I'm taking the at home tests and 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.320 I know the drill and fifteen minutes later and boom, 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.760 it's negative. And I go about the rest of my day. 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.160 And it was like this time I took the test. 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.000 I looked down and I'm like, you have got to 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.120 be fucking kidding me, right, you know, I had a 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.079 I was I was literally leaving in five hours to 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.880 head to a trip with my friends, um, you know, 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.440 to go away, and I wanted to be extra careful, right. 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.240 I was feeling got it in New York. I got 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.959 it in New York. I was feeling, you know, I 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:13.640 had UM. I'd had a scratchy throat and I said, 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.280 you know, but allergies are going around, you know, allergies. 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.640 It's allergy season, and it's been really dry you know, 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.360 we're in a drought. It's been horribly dry in New York. 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:25.720 But I said, I want to be extra careful. I'm 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.120 about to get on public transportation. I'm about to travel 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.600 to go see my friends that have kids. And so 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.160 that's you know, I was taking the test. Nobody asked 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.760 me to take, you know, to take a test. That 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.560 was my personal responsibility. And so when it came back 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.440 and it said that it was positive, I like lost 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:46.240 my shit and was you know, and was hysterical. Um 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.080 and and so it is like there there is this 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:53.240 this extraordinary emotional build up. But can you just talk 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.640 a little bit more about the blood brain barrier and like, 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.720 you know, have have we have we disc just enough 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:06.000 not just the physical symptoms of COVID, but the actual 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:11.280 you know, emotional mental ones. Particularly when folks were talking 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.600 about brain fog. I have not experienced that, but again 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.840 that being something that is that is very real. Well, 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.440 I think we're learning a lot more now than we 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.960 used to. I mean, certainly that was Remember initially people 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.720 thought this was just a respiratory infection, and it was serious, 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.720 right because it was getting in people's lungs. And then 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.440 when the big oh, came, everybody thought, oh, well, it's 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.920 good because it's just an upper respiratory CHAC infection. But 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.800 the thing is, when viruses can cross the blood brain barrier, 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.760 it's kind of a membrane kind of deal that separates, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.760 like all the fluid that surrounds your brain and your 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:51.720 spinal cord from the rest of your body. And so 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.320 a lot of viruses can't do that, right, you think 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.960 about the flu you think about the cold. So the 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.720 viruses that do a cross that barrier, it can be 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.040 you know, it can be potentially serious if you think 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.320 about like herpes can cause encephalitis. There are different other 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:13.600 kinds of brain brain brain viruses and some quite quite 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.280 really serious. And so I think the minute we started 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.600 seeing COVID show hoping people's brains was a time where 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.800 people thought, you know, this thing is a little more 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:26.040 complicated of a molecule than we were expecting. And there's 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.960 been steady research since then. I will say that there's 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:34.360 a lot of research now on long COVID, and thankfully 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.760 it's not just all about medication. There's a lot of 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:41.120 stuff about diet and different kinds of brain exercises and 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.640 activity things. There's a whole kind of holistic approach. And 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.680 so I guess I would say that for people who 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.000 have long COVID, which sucks, there are a lot of 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.440 long COVID clinics now which there didn't used to be before, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.040 where people are looking in a much more serious way. 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:02.240 And conversely, I do kind of worry because people got 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:06.280 depressed after getting COVID, or confused or confused and frustrated 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.160 and depressed. And I think there was a wrong move 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.800 to just give anti depressense in the beginning because nobody 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.600 knew what was happening. So now the fact that this 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.800 is a bit more, um, this is a bit more Um, 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.199 you know, we just know a bit more about it 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.800 than than we did before. Um, So we'll see. But 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.080 I mean, I think if anybody's suffering long COVID, go 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.480 to a long COVID clinic, I guess is the message 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.400 and think about it holistically. But I guess the main 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.040 point is for something that does involve your brain. Um. 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.800 You know, it's not surprising that people have emotional effects 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:46.800 or cognitive effects. So Jonathan, you are in a tie, 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.600 which means that you are back on campus and at school. Um, 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:58.200 and no you don't and you are teaching a class 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:02.120 on pandemic and society. Tell us a bit about that, 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.399 and also, you know how how it's been being back 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:11.320 on campus. We have another virus that we haven't been 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.720 able to wrap our arms around him. Dare I say, 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:20.760 probably shouldn't monkey pocks. So how how are things going? Well, 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.119 I'm at Vanderbilt. I'll just put it out there, and 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.640 I would just say, first, the experience of COVID has 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.640 been that, like pretty much all other schools, many other 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.520 schools are many schools have just kind of given up. 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.480 The good thing about Vanderbilt is that you can They're 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.680 still doing testing. There's still a lot of awareness among 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:49.920 the students. But there's no mask requirement whatsoever. It's it's 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.600 um mask or not. Some students mask, many don't, and 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:55.720 it's hard to mask in college if a lot of 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.280 people aren't doing it. I'm just back. My class has 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.200 two hundreds toudents in it, and I'm teaching in a 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.040 big lecture hall and there's no airflow really in the room. 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.400 I opened up the backdoors today because there was no airflow. 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.840 I kind of freaked out, and then some other professor 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:12.919 came in and yelled at me. For making too much noise, 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:15.439 and then I had my students do the wave to 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:21.280 get back at him. But I would just say that there, 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:26.600 whereas last year, people were really you know, testing distancing, 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.680 and now, like many schools, they're just kind of letting 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.040 it go. Now. I'm I'm a little nervous about that, 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:38.840 to be honest again, because number one, long COVID's a crapshoot. 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.959 Number two, we don't know. We haven't opened college in 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.520 this way quite yet, and so it'll be interesting to see. 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.440 And there certainly are I'll just say, in a very 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.560 general sense, quite a high number of COVID cases at 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.600 the school. Faculty are getting it, a lot of students 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:58.200 are getting it. So a lot of people are getting 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.720 sick here. And I guess that it's the trade off 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:02.920 that a lot of places are making is we can't 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:07.159 stay shut down forever. It's weird. What I was lecturing 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:13.120 about today was the profound irony of like, like if 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:14.800 you went to a red state and said we're going 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.000 to go back to zoom education for middle school, people 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.240 would like light your tires on fire right away. But 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.600 college is still like there are all these like online 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.120 college degrees and stuff, like that now, so the same 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.960 as a technology that a lot of colleges are using. 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:32.639 So it'll it'll be interesting. I mean the class I 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.680 teach is called COVID and Society, and it's it's really 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:41.600 processing with two hundred students every Tuesday and Thursday, let's 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.199 let's imagine how the world is changing around us. So 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.600 we're doing a lot of thinking and talking about the 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.800 pandemic and it's it's great. The students really like having 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.800 an analysis of something that's happening right now. But I said, 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:54.720 like in the beginning, I don't know the answer. I 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.960 don't know where this is going. I wish I did. 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:01.880 It changes the dynamic of the class and so it's 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.400 a very meaningful class and it still feels that way. 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.119 But you know, we have no idea how where is 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.000 going to end up? You know, a question for you 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.320 what are some of the things you know, again, like 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.520 I'm not in my twenties right, so what are some 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:18.280 of the things that the students are bringing up that 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:23.800 for them has profoundly changed versus you know, how you 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.680 may have thought or how we may think that things 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:31.040 have changed for us. Well, today I did a class 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.159 on COVID and college, and the theme of the lecturer 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:39.120 was how has the pandemic changed how we think about college? 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.440 And I started the class talking about the GI Bill, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.160 and in the GI Bill at the end of World 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.439 War two, like it was like in exchange for you 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.800 risking your life and then doing the ultimate patriotic sacrifice, 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.000 going to defend the country, We're going to give you 0:21:55.600 --> 0:22:00.600 the pathway to middle class, which is a college education. 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:04.480 So the g I Bill, you know, signaled that college 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:10.560 was a form of patriotism really, and the sixties had 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.159 debates about politics and action on campus. And then I 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.480 and then I talked about a twenty fourteen study that 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:22.720 showed that college graduates, on average, ninety eight percent of 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.359 college graduates would make more hourly than non college graduates. 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.200 So college was seen as the great equalizer from a 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:34.640 socioeconomic and racial and gender perspective in terms of salary. 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.560 And then I said, how does this feel now? And 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.399 to a person, the students were like, I don't know, 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.320 college is really expensive now. There are other ways to 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:49.760 make money. There are other ways to they are better 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.879 ways to Like we know this guy who started to 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.679 start up or he's an influencer and he's making just 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:58.640 as much money. So I think there's been a real 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:02.359 conversation about what the value of colleges right now. And 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:04.760 so it's not the theme of the class isn't just 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:08.960 direct information about COVID, it's also like, how did it 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:12.399 change our perceptions about a bunch of other things? And 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:14.840 college is certainly one of them. And it's interesting that 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.639 a lot of the students were like, yeah, what what 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:19.320 does college mean? And I think the theme of the 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:21.680 lecture was college college is going to have to reinvent 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:27.000 itself right now to adopt to this new economy. You know, 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.760 it's funny because a couple of things are coming up 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:32.639 for me as you as you're saying that, which is one. 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:35.919 I think that for a lot of people, particularly you know, 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.760 working adults, professionals that we're working in offices, you know, 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:43.800 we have all been in a state of reimagining what 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:48.239 does work actually mean? Right I was actually having this 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:51.639 conversation with another friend of mine who works for a big, 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:56.440 you know, media company, and was saying that now they're 0:23:56.440 --> 0:23:58.960 getting ready to bring people back two and three days 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:03.280 a week in person, because the corporation feels like, you know, 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:06.280 we're a big family and you know, we should all 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:09.959 be together and be in these meetings together and you know, 0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:14.080 having camaraderie. And her response to that was, I actually 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:17.919 have a family and have friends. I don't need work 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:21.480 to be the environment for which I am building community in. 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:24.240