1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: January fourteenth, two thousand and nine, was an unremarkable day 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: at a daycare center in Lincolnshire, Illinois, until the afternoon 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: when a daycare provider named Melissa Kallyauzinski called out to 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: her coworkers for help. A sixteen month old boy in 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: her care had become unresponsive. Nine on one was called 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: CPR was performed, but the infant never regained consciousness. After 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: two autopsies, a forensic pathologist reported a rear skull fracture 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: and massive bleeding that he believed were caused by blunt 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: Ford's head drama, and after a fourteen hour interrogation, Melissa 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: told investigators what they wanted to hear, which sent her 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: away for thirty one years. But this is wrongful conviction. 12 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison, 13 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us 14 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: at eight three three two o seven four six sixty 15 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: six and tell us how these stories make you feel 16 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: and what you've done to help the cause, even if 17 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: it's something as simple as telling a friend or sharing 18 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: on social media, and you might just hear yourself in 19 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: a future episode. Call us eight three three two oh 20 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: seven four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. 21 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: I don't even know if I'm ready for this one, 22 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: because this case just hurts my heart. It's an incredible 23 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: story of a wonderful young woman who has been chewed 24 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: up and spit out by a system that is well 25 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: unfortunately designed to do just that. And I'm talking about 26 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: Lissa Kyle Yazinski. Melyssa, thanks for being here. I'm happy 27 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: you're here, but I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances. 28 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: Thank you for having. 29 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: Me and with Melissa today. Kathleen Zelner, as many of 30 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: you may know, one of the most accomplished criminal defense 31 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: appellent attorneys in the country. She's been responsible for dozens 32 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: of exonerations, including some you've heard about on the show 33 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: like Ryan Ferguson. Kathleen. I'm so excited that you're here. 34 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 3: Thank you. It's a great opportunity. 35 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: This case is one of the more obvious wrongful convictions 36 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: we've ever seen, and it involves a false confession, junk science, 37 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: corrupt practices, lying, compromised witnesses, and it goes downhill from there. 38 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: This is a thirty one year sentence of a young 39 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: woman who was working in I think what we could 40 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: all agree is a noble profession right doing daycare, and 41 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: she was almost certainly Is it fair to say, Kathleen, 42 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: she was convicted of a crime that never happened. 43 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: Yes, this is not a murder. This is just a 44 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 3: complet botched forensic case. 45 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: This case is similar to a shaken baby syndrome case, 46 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: in which a child succumbs to various complications that are 47 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: assigned both a violent cause and an assailant. The most 48 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: recent caregiver in this case, that's Melissa, who never even 49 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: got close to being in trouble before this incident, but 50 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: rather led a quiet life growing up in a loving 51 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,119 Speaker 1: family and a working class suburb of Chicago. 52 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 2: I grew up in Carpentersville. I mean, it's just your 53 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 2: typical suburban neighborhood. My parents' names are Paul and Shurrel. 54 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: Still live in the same house. I'm the youngest of five. 55 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: I have two older half brothers, my middle sister who's 56 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: a year older than me, and Crystal. Me and her 57 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: kind of did the same thing growing up. She babysat, 58 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: I babysat We Love Children. 59 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: Melissa got the chance to work at this daycare center. 60 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: It was called the Minnie Sabidi in Lincolnshire, which was 61 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: a relatively Affluich Chicago suburb. Right. 62 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: I ended up going to the Arlington Heights one for 63 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: majority of the time that I worked for many sube. 64 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: When I transferred to the one in Lincolnshire, my sister 65 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: was working there and my nephew was there. He was 66 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 2: just a baby. The children made my day. I didn't 67 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: even care if late I had baby pew coming. Yeah, 68 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: it smelled, but I mean I still loved what I did. 69 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: How this begins is that there was a young child 70 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: there named Benjamin Kingen. What do we know about the 71 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: pre existing conditions that now have come to life? 72 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: In October of two thousand and eight, Melissa hadn't even 73 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 3: started working there and there was an incident at the 74 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 3: daycare center. That incident was totally concealed from the parents. 75 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 3: It was not written up, the word was put out 76 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 3: by management. Nobody was to really talk about it. They 77 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 3: were playing a game and one of the teachers aides 78 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: had a plastic bat and was witnessed swinging the bat 79 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 3: and they were throwing this plastic ball and she accidentally 80 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: hit Ben in the back of the head. That manifested 81 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 3: itself in a really goose egg sized lump on his head, 82 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 3: But when he was taken to his pediatrician, the mother 83 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 3: didn't know the circumstances. She just thought maybe he was 84 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 3: a headbanger because he had some stomach problems, so he'd 85 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 3: throw himself back on the floor. So the mother had 86 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 3: no idea the severity of the blow, so when she 87 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 3: took him to a pediatrician, she minimized what happened, and 88 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 3: the pediatrician opted not to do a CT scan, But 89 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: that subdual heimatoma, that pre existing injury, was there all 90 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 3: those months and tragically resulted in his death from a 91 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 3: subsequent incident where he banged his head. 92 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: Pediatricians regularly monitor the height, weight, and the head circumference 93 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: of infants and toddlers. Before this incident in October two 94 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, both Ben and his twin sister's head 95 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: circumferences were in the fiftieth percentile. However, leading up to 96 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: the day of Ben's tragic passing, Ben's had rapidly expanded 97 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: into the ninety fifth percentile by January fourteenth, two thousand 98 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: and nine. 99 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, so January fourteenth of two thousand and nine. Ben's 100 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 3: mother brings him to the daycare center, but he has 101 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 3: been at home for two days and he's done some 102 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: projectile vomiting. He's lethargic, which is a classic sign of 103 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,559 Speaker 3: a head injury head trauma. She brings him in because 104 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: she thinks he's feeling better. And so Melissa noticed that 105 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: he seemed a little tired, but nothing that really stood 106 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 3: out to her. 107 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: I mean, it was just a normal, usual day. They 108 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 2: were playing most of the day, had snacked and lunch. 109 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 2: It was me and Nancy that day that afternoon, like 110 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: after nap, So just went to see my sister, my nephew. 111 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 3: Significantly, Melissa leaves the room and it's probably gone for 112 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 3: twenty minutes. The teacher's aide, Nancy Kallinger, who was in 113 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: the room before Melissa came back, she said that he'd 114 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 3: thrown himself back very forcefully and hit his head on 115 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 3: the floor before Melissa came back in the room. When 116 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 3: she returns, Ben is in his bouncy chair, and she 117 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: notices that he's not responding to his name, and then 118 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 3: just a minute or so later, she notices kind of 119 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 3: an orange colored foam coming out of his nose and 120 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 3: his mouth. 121 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. When I went over to him, he was just 122 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: in his chair. I went to go get help immediately 123 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: when I didn't get a respond, so I picked my 124 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: head out, left the door open, of course, and my 125 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: sister came running. 126 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 3: Her sister comes in another aid. They render CPR. So 127 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: Melissa is only back in that room for a couple 128 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 3: of minutes, and even the state pathologists testified well by 129 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: the time he was unresponsive, this injury had to have 130 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: occurred thirty minutes before or all the way up to 131 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 3: three hours. He could not go from being alert and 132 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 3: responsive to this almost comatose condition in the amount of 133 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 3: time that Melissa was in the room, so then nine 134 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 3: to one one is called. 135 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: Of course, we now know that a child can experience 136 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: potentially up to seventy two hours of lucidity after a 137 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: traumatic event before succumbing to the symptoms that can arise 138 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: from head trauma, for example intracranial and retinal bleeding as 139 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: well as brain swelling. And who knows what was going 140 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: on during the three days leading up to his tragic passing, 141 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: But if there was another injury in addition to the 142 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: one reported by Nancy Kalinger, it could have been as 143 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: innocuous as a short fall that could have caused a 144 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: rebleed of his previous head injury, and a slow, invisible 145 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: creep towards unconsciousness. 146 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 3: It was just chaos. 147 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 2: We took the kids next door back into the infant 148 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: room so the paramedics can do what they do, and 149 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: I was just following because it's like what happened. 150 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 3: He never regains consciousness. They take him in and he's 151 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 3: pronounced dead, and then an autopsies performed by doctor Choi. 152 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: There were two autopsies, right, which is unusual. 153 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 3: Yes, very In fact, the cases I've had where there's 154 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 3: actually not a murder, there's always two autopsies. So there's 155 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 3: the first one where the pathologist decides, well, the case 156 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: of death doesn't clear, it's undetermined. Then there's police pressure, 157 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: and then the second one. Suddenly there's a homicide. And 158 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 3: that's what happened in this case. Choi was pressured. 159 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like we didn't like the first conclusion, go 160 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: get us a different one. While doctor Choi was instructed 161 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: to do a second autopsy, detectives return to the Mini 162 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: Subie daycare to find Melissa. 163 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 3: I barely got. 164 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 2: Any sleep, but the next morning I went to work. 165 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: They were all there, and the way they took me out, 166 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: I had each detective basically standing side by side, super 167 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: close to me, and then I had one behind me, 168 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: and I remember Detective Hide telling me we need to 169 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: ask you some more things and we need you to 170 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 2: come with us. But I didn't feel like I had 171 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 2: a choice when they were surrounding me. 172 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: Melissa was eventually taken to Lincolnshire PD, where she endured 173 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: fourteen hours of interrogation without her parents or an attorney. 174 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: But importantly, there were other factors at play that made 175 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: Melissa more vulnerable to police pressure. 176 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: They got sexually assaulted back in two thousand and six, and. 177 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 3: She had a cute post traumatic stress. Her head was 178 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 3: covered with a blanket, so she was like super clausterphobic 179 00:10:54,240 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 3: and had PTSD. That condition was so bad that it 180 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 3: showed up years later when I just had doctor Westfall 181 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: from Yale forensic psychiatrist do a workup of Melissa, and 182 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: they reported back to me that she had unresolved PTSD. 183 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: They were tracing back to the sexual assault. Well, she 184 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 3: had reported it and the perpetrator had some connection to 185 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 3: the police department, and there were no charges brought against him. 186 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: In addition, subsequent IQ and verbal testing suggests that Melissa's 187 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: mental acuity also made her more susceptible to pressure from authority. Figures. 188 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, she's trapped in the room with these two officers 189 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 3: who are incredibly aggressive with her. They got her wedged 190 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 3: into this corner. And the thing I think that's most 191 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 3: striking to me in her interrogation that goes on for 192 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 3: hours is how many times she denies having done anything. 193 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: Nine at least that we've counted, right, seventy nine times 194 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: she says, no, I didn't do it. 195 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 2: I know I didn't do anything wrong. And it's just 196 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: so crazy because they keep pressing and pressing. They'll put 197 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: you in a little room and mat press and pressed 198 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: like the world is crushing you, and you can't get 199 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 2: out of it until you tell them what they want 200 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 2: to hear, because for people like me, there is no 201 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: right answer. They want their answer. 202 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 203 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 204 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 205 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. 206 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: During Melissa's interrogation, Joy is performing the second autopsy and 207 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 3: so the officers keep leaving the end interrogation to go 208 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 3: and talk to him, and that there's other officers present 209 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 3: at the autopsy, which they should actually never do that 210 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 3: because then the pathologist feels extremely pressured. 211 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: There were no cuts or obvious wounds or serious bruising, 212 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: but after the second autopsy, doctor Troy ruled Bend's death 213 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: a homicide. He said that there was intracranial bleeding followed 214 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: by something that appears to not have been supported by 215 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: the X rays, that Ben had a skull fracture from 216 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: blood for's ed trauma. 217 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: There's not a fracture that showed up on the clear 218 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 3: X rays, and there was bleeding. Doctor Troy, he can't 219 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 3: see that fracture on the X ray, but he thinks 220 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 3: he can see it visually. The whole history of the 221 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 3: prior injury that caused this potential for massive bleeding existed 222 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 3: in October and was undetected, and then he misses it 223 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 3: at autopsy and then gets fixated on what he thought 224 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 3: it was a skull fracture and that there had to 225 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 3: be this tremendous blow to Ben's head. Well, subsequent pathologist 226 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 3: have said no, no, that's an accessory suture. That's not 227 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 3: a skull fracture. There wasn't any tremendous blow to his 228 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 3: head accessories. 229 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: Skull sutures are developmental anomalies which typically occur while the 230 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: soft spots of a young child's skull solidified during the 231 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: first twenty four months. So while X rays are typically 232 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: a better assessment of fractures or sutures than the naked eye, 233 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: doctor Choi chose or was pressured to trust his naked 234 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: eye instead to assess the source of the intracranial bleeding. 235 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 3: There was fresh blood that it comes from the old injury. 236 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 3: It's very similar to the football player that has the concussion, 237 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 3: then goes back in and is playing and has a 238 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 3: slight head tap and suddenly he's dead. You've got an 239 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: aggravation of the underlying layers of the brain. In this case, 240 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: there was barachnoid subgalile bleeding, but it still wasn't massive bleeding, 241 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 3: and there was also old blood. So that's why doctor 242 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 3: Choi in the first autopsy, it wasn't clear at all 243 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 3: that this was a homicide. 244 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: There was no reason that a competent person in his 245 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: position could have or should have made these mistakes or again, 246 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: maybe they weren't mistakes. Maybe he was just cow tewing 247 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: to the men in blue that were in the room 248 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: with him, which, again, that's outrageous. It's fucking outrageous that 249 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: they're allowed to like bird dog this situation. Years later, 250 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: doctor Joy admitted that he missed the previous injury during 251 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: the autopsy, which should observed as a compelling explanation for 252 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: the bleeding, especially in the absence of any exterior injuries. 253 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: But the result of this faulty forensic exam was then 254 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: brought into the interrogation room. 255 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 3: So it's the classic read technique where you start out 256 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 3: she's denying, denying, denine. Then you tell her none of 257 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 3: that's true. You've just talked to the pathologists. He had 258 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 3: this horror head injury equivalent to being thrown off a 259 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 3: three story building. She was the one in the room 260 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 3: with him when he became unresponsive. It has to be her, 261 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 3: and they just keep pounding on her. 262 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: They were just like, let's just cut the bs, let's 263 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 2: cut to it. All of us are exhausters. Why don't 264 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: you just tell us so we can all go home. 265 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: I'm just wanted to get home, tell my parents what happened. 266 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: And go from there and like, Okay, they want to 267 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: hear what they want to hear, forget what I'm saying. 268 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 2: So that's why I said what I said. Everything they 269 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: said I said. 270 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 3: I would say eighty five percent of the interrogation is 271 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: them talking. They believe that she just snapped and threw 272 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 3: him down. They tell her exactly what to say. Did 273 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 3: they show her what to do? Like here, take this, 274 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 3: they gave her some little teddy bear. Throw that down 275 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: on the floor really hard. He's facing out and she 276 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 3: throws him on the floor. The problem is the injuries 277 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 3: in the back of the head. But once got it, 278 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 3: they ran with it and they're couching it in. If 279 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 3: you haven't done anything really wrong, you'll get to go home. 280 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 3: I mean, she actually leaves the interrogation and says, I've 281 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 3: got to get home to my puppy and I'm going 282 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: to warm the car up. 283 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 2: I literally thought I was going home to see my puppy. 284 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 2: I had my keys with the prestarter, I had my 285 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 2: phone in my hand. I was literally thought I was 286 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 2: going home to see my family and my dog. But 287 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 2: it was crazy when they took everything out of my hand. 288 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: Neither the false confession nor the atops who lined up 289 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: with reality. Yet Melissa has not seen the outside since 290 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: January fifteenth of two thousand and nine. 291 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 2: After everything had happened. I do remember being in the 292 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: back of a police card and saying I'm innocent. I 293 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: did not do this, and I kept calling them and 294 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: I kept telling them there is a big mistake, and 295 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 2: they were not listening to me. At hall, I felt 296 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: like this tiny little mouth because it's like I'm telling everybody, 297 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: like there's a big mistake. I did not do this, 298 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 2: And it was like a nightmare. There is a big mistake. 299 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: She immediately we can't at her story, but it doesn't matter. 300 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: You can't put that genie back in the bottle. So 301 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: was she able to bond out or was she stuck 302 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: in jail awaiting a trial that was two years away. 303 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 3: She never bonded out. She was stuck in jail and 304 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 3: the parents had come to me to do the trial. 305 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 3: But I was in the middle of Kevin Fox's appeal 306 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 3: from his civil rights verdict, and so I recommended a 307 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 3: very accomplished criminal defense attorney. Paul de Luca, who had 308 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 3: been a prosecutor in Cook County, has been a defense 309 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 3: attorney for years, has done dozens of death penalty cases 310 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 3: and all of that. And then he brought in another 311 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 3: attorney who was equally experienced, and they became the trial attorneys. 312 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 3: So Paul de Luca tried to get the confession tossed out, 313 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: and he brought in Richard Leo, and they did my 314 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 3: Q testing, verbal testing, and they did all the right things, 315 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 3: and the judge would not let any of that evidence in. 316 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 3: Remember this was in twenty eleven. He said that at 317 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 3: that point the case law was not strong enough to 318 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 3: justify letting in a false confession expert. So all that 319 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 3: workup was done her IQ. The problem with the verbal testing. 320 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 3: The one thing though that they knew about but they 321 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 3: didn't pursue. And Paul's a totally honest person. He's given 322 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 3: me an affidavit to this effect, was the sexual assault 323 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 3: and unresolved PTSD. Well, Paul de Luca knew that, but 324 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 3: you know, he was focused on Richard Leo and trying 325 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 3: to get all of that in. But they should have 326 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 3: done that. They simply did not know that that, combined 327 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: with her language impairments, was just fatal to her that day, 328 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 3: being in that room, in that corner with these people. 329 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: So, despite the science of false confessions as well as 330 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: how susceptible Melissa was to police pressure, her false statement 331 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: was admitted and the defense rebuttal evidence and the expert himself, 332 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: Richard Leo, were denied. Additionally, before her November twenty eleven trial, 333 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: Melissa's defense was provided with a digital image of Ben's 334 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: skull X ray. But you know how a file could 335 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: be saved in a different format which can affect the 336 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: quality of the content. Well, this image was so compressed 337 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: that it simply wasn't legible, leaving the defense experts at 338 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: a big disadvantage. Doctor Shaku Tease testified about both the 339 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: unreadable images as well as doctor Troy's shoddy work. 340 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 3: Doctor Troy didn't take samples of the skull fracture, They 341 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 3: didn't do the slides that he should have done, So 342 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 3: doctor Tease, she was saying there was no definite proof 343 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 3: of the fracture and the X rays were totally unreadable, 344 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 3: and she thought it could have been a suture. Ben 345 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 3: was only sixteen months old, so his skull was still 346 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 3: in that formative you know, where you have the little 347 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 3: soft spot and the skull is more vulnerable, and so anyway, 348 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 3: te said this could be an accessory suture that's part 349 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 3: of the final skull formation, and that Troy had just 350 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 3: mistaken it for a fracture. Then Paul di Luca brought 351 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 3: in doctor Leedsma, who's a renowned pediatric physician in Chicago, 352 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 3: and he tried to convince the jury this was a 353 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 3: rebleed of the prior injury. 354 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: The defense also called the other teacher's aide, Nancy Kalinger. 355 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 3: She claimed that she'd taken him to the changing table 356 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 3: and he didn't need his diaper change, and that she 357 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 3: set him down on the floor, and she claimed that 358 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 3: he and Melissa's not in the room, that he threw 359 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 3: himself back really forcefully. 360 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: Which directly supports the rebleed theory. Then the state presented 361 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: an alleged forensic pathologist named Manny Montez, who said that 362 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: he had felt the fracture with his own hands, which, 363 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: according to the recently resurfaced raw digital images of Ben's skull, 364 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: appears to have been a total fabrication. 365 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 3: Totalized Yes, So what happened was the state sprung doctor 366 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 3: Montes on the defense in rebuttal and it was very 367 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 3: unfortunate they didn't have a counter to Montes, but he 368 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 3: gave this Academy Award performance and his credentials. He was 369 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 3: never board certified. But he's the guy that comes in 370 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 3: and he's felt the skull and he's manipulated it and 371 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 3: tells the jury, oh my god, there's this through and 372 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 3: through fracture. That was a tremendous blow. So that's the 373 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 3: last thing the jury hears. 374 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: Prosecutors mentioned the skull fracture more than thirty times, so 375 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: they knew they had something that couldn't be beat. Right. 376 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: They probably had a meeting in the back room somewhere 377 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: and said, hey, just keep go after skull practice, skull fractors. 378 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: Keep hitting that point right, and you could probably they 379 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: could probably see the reaction in real time that the 380 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: jurors just probably wanted to throw up thinking about this 381 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: terribly violent act. So at the end of the day, 382 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: you've got lay people on the jury. There's competing medical experts. 383 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: It's almost like a toss up, and if it's a 384 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: toss up, they're going to default to. Well, it's easier 385 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: to reconcile the idea that something horrible was done by 386 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: a bad person as opposed to the idea that a 387 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: baby could have just died, because if that's true, then 388 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: your baby could just die. 389 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 3: I've done a lot of medical malpractice with parents who've 390 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 3: lost a child. I think when parents lose a child, 391 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 3: they tend to blame themselves. I think the mother who 392 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 3: may well have had a malpractice suit against the pediatrician 393 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 3: who didn't do the CT scan, in her mind, probably 394 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 3: blamed herself to some extent, although it was the pediatrician's fault. 395 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 3: So as you're saying, one thing that alleviates some of 396 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 3: that guilt is to have a clear bad guy, a 397 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 3: person you can blame this on, like this didn't have 398 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 3: anything to do with October. This had to do with 399 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 3: this young woman and her vile temper. 400 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 2: It was just heartbreaking with me, and then how these 401 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: people lied to them to make it look like something 402 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 2: when it isn't. You're qu in innocent personal ways. Thirty 403 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 2: one years my heart literally went up to my mouth 404 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 2: when I went to Duwai. It was scary a little bit, 405 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 2: and it was weird. I was with hermid with people 406 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 2: I did not know. But then eventually the women that 407 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: I met they made it easier and we kind of 408 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: stuck together and they kind of stuck up for me 409 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 2: to it wasn't as bad as what I thought it 410 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 2: was because I know that I'm not a troublemaker and 411 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 2: I don't cause albums. So by me staying quiet and 412 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 2: kind of saying to myself, which I did in the county, 413 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 2: I did here as well. So I was cautious that 414 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 2: everything I was doing it made things easier. And I 415 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 2: just remember Paul telling me that this is not over, 416 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 2: like you're not going to do thirty one years, it's 417 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 2: just the number. Don't stress out about this. And then 418 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 2: when they told me that Kathleen, when I got Kathleen 419 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 2: zelln there, I just kind of knew like I just 420 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: had to kind of suck it up my emotions and 421 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 2: set aside to be strong. 422 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 3: So our first involvement is in doing the direct appeal, 423 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 3: and we go to the second District, which is very conservative, 424 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 3: but we've got no rebuttal to the confession, and because 425 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 3: all of the evidence has been blocked by the trial judge, 426 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 3: and Illinois is still contemplating whether false confession expert should 427 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 3: be allowed to testify, and the first time that Illinois 428 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 3: allows that is in federal court. The Seventh Circuit in 429 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 3: the northern district, so the state courts are lagging behind. 430 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 3: So the court just pretty much does a knee jerk 431 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: sort of opinion. Know the proofs there beyond a reasonable doubt, 432 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 3: and I think we'd already started really reinvestigating, finding out 433 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 3: the history of the injury, talking to doctor Nancy Jones, 434 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 3: who was a renowned pathologist. She's now deceased, almost always 435 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,959 Speaker 3: for the state, and she's the one who thought it 436 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 3: was an access researcher. We got doctor Choi to recant 437 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: his testimony. Doctor Chroi retired. I'm not even sure if 438 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 3: he's still alive, but I had other cases with him, 439 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 3: things where he just made mistakes. We approached him and said, 440 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 3: my god, there's an underlying injury here that you missed 441 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 3: on autopsy. So he agreed, yeah, there was Gavin affidavit, 442 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 3: but he was always pressured by the state. They went 443 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 3: back and had him modify and say, well, I missed 444 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 3: it but it wasn't important. He just capitulated when pressure 445 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 3: was put on him. But anyway, Doctor Rudd then stepped 446 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 3: in discovered the tiff image. So when Paul de Luca 447 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 3: was representing Melissa, he was given these unreadable JPEG images 448 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 3: of the skull. It was practically like a black outline 449 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 3: of the head. There's no possible way you could have 450 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: detected whether there was a fracture there. That's why the 451 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 3: state then brought in and sandbagged him with doctor Montez. 452 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 3: That was very thought out. So doctor Rudd discovered that 453 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 3: on the corner's computer, other than the JPEG images, there 454 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 3: were these completely clear Tiff images, and the Tiff images 455 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 3: showed this beautiful picture of Ben's skull and there was 456 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 3: no fracture. Then we got a forensic computer expert, we 457 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 3: got the metadata and you could see that someone had 458 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 3: manipulated the images of the skull. 459 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: The Tiff images are the uncompressed raw digital images of 460 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: Ben's skull, which were vital to exposing doctor Joy's faulty opinion, 461 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: but were not made available to the defensive trial. Since then, 462 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: a forensic computer expert has proven that someone had to 463 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: have exported the crystal clear Tiff images as JPEGs, opened 464 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: them in a new program, and saved them at an 465 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: even lower bit rate, rendering them useless to another pathologist 466 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: who with them could have shown that there was no 467 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: through and through fracture, but rather that there were accessory 468 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: sutures as well as a rebleed of a previous injury. 469 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 3: They knew they'd pressured the pathologists. I mean, it was 470 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 3: so extreme. When doctor Rudd came along years later, doctor 471 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 3: Troy changed the death certificate to say it wasn't a homicide. 472 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 3: So the death certificate now does not say it was 473 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 3: a homicide. It says it was undetermined. 474 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: That's unfucking realize she's in prison for something that was 475 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: not a homicide. 476 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 3: So with all of that, we came back to Lake 477 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 3: County to the trial judge. The judge did everything to 478 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 3: try to ignore the new images that we discovered. He 479 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 3: accused our computer expert of manipulating the data. Nancy Jones 480 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: became critically ill with cancer. She died about a month 481 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 3: after there, and she was too ill to come in 482 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 3: and testify. So we brought in doctor Zimmermann, and he 483 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 3: was head of the National Trauma Abuse Council in the 484 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 3: United States, probably the leading expert in the country radiologist 485 00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 3: in detecting skull fractures that were the result of an 486 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 3: intentional act. He testified there wasn't a skull fracture. There 487 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 3: would never be a skull fracture. The tiff images were 488 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 3: clear there was no skull fracture, and that the confession 489 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: of the thing with the little Teddy Bear being thrown 490 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 3: down on his face did not match. The physical evidence 491 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 3: did not match. 492 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 2: Well. 493 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 3: The judge just thought he had better understanding of the 494 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 3: medicine and the radiology than doctor Zimmermann, so he just 495 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 3: wasn't going to consider his testimony. So back we go 496 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 3: to the appellate court. Now the judge couldn't get around 497 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 3: the fact that Melissa had confessed, and then she thought 498 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 3: it was a battle of the experts. They affirmed it. 499 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 3: So then we come back again. New state's attorney takes over. 500 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 3: He indicates he wants to meet with us, that they 501 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: have serious questions about Melissa's conviction based on the computer 502 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,239 Speaker 3: evidence we presented. I hire Saul Cassen, who looks at 503 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 3: the confession. 504 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: Of course, Saulcassen is one of the foremost experts in 505 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: the world on false confessions. 506 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 3: Sawcassen had tracked the case for years, so he thought 507 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 3: it was appalling. And then I hired the forensic psychiatrist 508 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 3: from Yale and we just started over. So the state 509 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 3: recommended a computer forensic company and said they would be 510 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 3: very comfortable with their findings. I had all the computer 511 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 3: analysis redone. They concluded my expert was spot on that 512 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 3: the images had been manipulated, and they went even further 513 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 3: and said they had been intentionally manipulated, that my expert 514 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 3: in no way had altered any data, and they completely 515 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 3: supported him. The experts from Yale have determined that the 516 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 3: sexual assault should have been a major part of the trial. 517 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 3: They've given me all of that information. And then of 518 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 3: course I have Nancy Jones, Affid David, and I have 519 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 3: an additional pathologist who's looked at said this was not 520 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 3: a murder. This was not a murder. This was a 521 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,239 Speaker 3: child who had a severe head injury in October. That's 522 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 3: why his head circumference increased so dramatically. This was not 523 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 3: a murder. So in looking at it, we don't feel 524 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 3: we'll get relief from the trial judge. It's the same 525 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 3: trial judge. We have an action pending in federal court, 526 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 3: but it's backlogged horribly. So we're going to go to 527 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 3: Governor Pritzker with a clemency petition. I think that's our 528 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 3: best avenue at this point. 529 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: The good news is you have one of the best governors, 530 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: and I believe that he will give this the attention 531 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,719 Speaker 1: it deserves. There's only one conclusion you can draw. I mean, 532 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: this entire case has collapsed like a house of cards. 533 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: There's nothing there. It's insane. So is there a call 534 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: to action? 535 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 3: I would encourage everyone to read our petition. I will 536 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 3: post it on our website Kathleen t Zelner dot com. 537 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 3: They'll be untached information in there for Governor Pritzker. If 538 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 3: people feel persuaded by it and feel there's been a 539 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 3: miscarriage of justice, I would strongly encourage them to write 540 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 3: directly to him. I think it would be enormously helpful. 541 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: Great, we'll put links in the episode description, and then 542 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: with that we're going to turn to closing arguments, my 543 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: favorite part of every episode, which is where I have 544 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: the honor to thank each of you for joining us 545 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: here on the show. And then I'm going to kick 546 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: back in my chair, turn my microphone off, leave my 547 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: headphones on, close my eyes, and just listen to anything 548 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: else you want to share with me and our wonderful audience. 549 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 3: So I would say to the audience that the way 550 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 3: I imagine and think about this case is I feel 551 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 3: as if I'm fighting for my daughter's life. He's about 552 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 3: the same age as Melissa. I believe in the history 553 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 3: of the cases I've had, I've had twenty three wrongful 554 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 3: convictions resolved. This is probably the worst one. And it's 555 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 3: hard to measure things, but I think it's because Melissa 556 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 3: is probably one of the best people I've ever met 557 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 3: in my life. She is a purely good person, and 558 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 3: I think anyone that looks at this case should be 559 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 3: outraged by the manipulation of the evidence to convict this 560 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 3: poor young girl of the murder of a child, and 561 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 3: the damage that's been done to her mentally. Having to 562 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 3: cope with this is indescribable. And so it doesn't matter 563 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 3: what I have to do. It does not matter how 564 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 3: long this battle takes. We are not going to stop 565 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 3: this battle. We are going to keep pounding on the 566 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 3: doors of justice till someone opens them. 567 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 2: If people are out there then know of my case. 568 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 2: There's still time to do support letters on my vhas 569 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 2: and basically just pray for me and my family and 570 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 2: the other family as well. With the supporters that I 571 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 2: hear from. It gives me strength and it helps me 572 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 2: to stay strong. So just hearing from people through my 573 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 2: family and then telling me and others is just very helpful. 574 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 2: The support is just very uplisting for me. I just 575 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: hope and pray that everything goes well, and I thank 576 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 2: everybody sold so much from the bottomary heart of hearing 577 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 2: this and hearing my story and seeing that I am 578 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 2: innocent and they wrongfully convict me, and I just I'm 579 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 2: just grateful for people that reach out. Thank you very much. 580 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 581 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 582 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on 583 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team, Connor 584 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive 585 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cleiburn. The music 586 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated 587 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all 588 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. 589 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: You can also follow me on Instagram at It's Jason Flahm. 590 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good Podcasts 591 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: in association with signal Company number one