WEBVTT - Parables of Sowing and Talents Ft. Andrew 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:11.520 Oh all right, well Joe started, I like these interests 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:15.160 of getting shorter every time we've bend it onto one syllable, 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:17.919 So there's not much we can go fee there. You 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:22.080 know what, an honest and honest man only needs one syllable, 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.159 sometimes less, sometimes half a syllable. We'll eventually get this 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:28.040 down to just grunts. That's really what I'm moving towards 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:32.520 is an entirely shouldn't we be moving towards like telepathy? Yeah, telepathy. 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:34.960 We don't even record a podcast where we just like 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.519 put up transmit the information instantaneously, just a blank audio 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:45.239 file that says, now, think about farming. I sa that 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:49.159 that sounds very Um, that sounds very sci fi. And 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:53.560 that's my way of doing a slick segue here, because 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.360 today we will be talking and I'm very excited to 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:00.800 talk about this. Um. She's one of my favorite authors. Um. 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.960 You know, I really enjoyed discussing The idea is present 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:09.959 in Huxley's work, but this one has a special place 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:11.720 in my heart. Today we'll be taking a look at 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.880 Octavia Butler's parable of the sewer and parable of the talents, 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:21.520 and the idea is present within. Yes, back at you 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:27.479 again with another podcast banger. But first of all, UM, Hi, 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:33.160 I'm Andrew UM sometimes known as st Andrew. I'm kind 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:38.880 of trying to rebrand as something else, still figuring that out, UM, 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.560 and you can find me on YouTube at st Andrewism. 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:48.040 But this episode is not about me and my branding. 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:54.040 This episode is about Octavia Butler bo and growing up 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:59.320 in segregation y America. She became an award winning sci 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.400 fi water UM with a lot of influences and a 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.760 lot of themes and ideas being covered in her work. 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.239 Considering the very white, male dominated scene that is sci fi, 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:12.880 the fact that she was able to not only break 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:18.160 into it but also presents some things that I haven't 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:25.320 been explored before, with angles that haven't really been explored before. UM. Really, 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:31.160 U has touched a lot of people. She was somewhat 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:35.720 after a futurist, but she was also very much UM. 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.440 A lot of her stories really blended UM. A lot 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.440 of people have a lot of different backgrounds and and 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:45.320 and histories, and she always managed to work aspects of 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.120 herself into her main characters. UM. She was a big 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:55.560 critic of hierarchies, which really draws me to her and UM. 0:02:55.720 --> 0:03:00.880 She also relatively has at times struggled with writer's block 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:06.280 and depression. She rode over two dozen essays, speeches, short stories, 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.480 and novels and her time on this earth. But unfortunately 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.240 she had a stroke and died in two thousand and six. 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.320 One of the or other two of the books that 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.239 have had the most of whos that have had the 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.600 most impact on me. And of course I haven't read 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:27.279 her entire bibliography yet, but I hope to get to it. 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:31.240 Um is part of the sewer right, and you know, 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.000 I think a lot of people have heard about it again, 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:37.920 a lot more relevance UM after you know, as kind 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.080 of patash. We continue to accelerate as you know, we 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:46.280 drew closer to the year that the book is set in, 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.720 and regard to the second book, as we had you know, 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:55.160 Trump come into office. Um. And I'll get into why 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.200 that's relevant in a bit. In the first book, just 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:03.880 to give a brief synopsis, global climate change and economic 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.840 crisis has let's a whole set of social crisis and 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.600 chaos in the early twenties. Um. The book is set 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:15.920 in California and they are struggling with pervasive water shortages 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.880 and masses of poor people will do basically anything to 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:26.080 live to see another day. Everybody is struggling, so basically today, 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:31.440 in this setting, fifteen year old Lauren Lamina lives inside 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:36.080 a gated community with her preacher father, family and neighbors, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:41.440 sheltered somewhat from the surrounding chaos. However, when we hear 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:43.480 gated community, now we think of, you know, like really 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:48.720 rich people, but in this case, gated community is just 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.919 like a regular community that had to put up a 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:56.560 bunch of walls to prevent like pyramid acts from like reading, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.159 it's like it's a suburb that used to be like 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.719 a well off suburb, but as things got worse, it 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.360 just turned into people hiding behind their walls because they 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.080 were scared of poor folks, right, Like it's there's an 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.839 element of it that almost reads like a slasher movie 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.640 in the opening of the book, which is one of 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:19.080 the things that's really compelling about it. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.960 they really Um. She really gets you invested in the setting, 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:27.200 in the character early on, and part of what really 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.760 gets you invested in Lauren as a protagonist is the 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:35.039 fact that she suffers from a unique vulnerability or strength, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.680 depending on how you look at it. Um oftentimes vulnerability, 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:44.560 and that is hyper empathy syndrome, which is basically but 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:50.520 she's able to feel others emotions, others pains. So when 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.680 others are very very sad, she feels very very sad. 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.799 When others are in pe and she feels that seame 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.919 excruciating pin um hm and so on and so forth. 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.840 And so she has to find sort of navigate this 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:10.800 chaosk food while dealing with this UM, with this um 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:16.760 disorder that she's struggling with. At the same time, though, 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.520 she's also navigating faith and the ideal of faith and 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:25.000 philosophy because her father is like a preacher and he 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:29.120 is the preacher of their little gated community, and so 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.520 she has grown up in the church, but she also 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.760 has found issues in UM, the religion that she grew 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.479 up in places where she thinks it is sort of 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.320 lead people a straight And that's kind of also what 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:47.000 is drawn me to Lauren as a character, because I too, 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.800 you know, have had to negotiate to navigate that whole 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:55.599 religious realm. And so that's basically the setting she's in 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.800 this community UM. It's chaos on the outside. She's not 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.520 gating her high per empathy syndrome, and she's also dealing 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.240 with the ideas of religion and change and so and 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.840 so forth. So as she's there um sort of thinking internally, 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.640 she's keeping this Juno and she's developing this new system 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.720 of thought which he calls earth Seed, and we're gonna 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:26.120 get into good Seed. But it basically shapes uh the 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:31.320 decisions that she makes and the outcome of both books, 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.360 and as well as how they progress throughout. The second 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.520 book places her in and really trying not to spoil, 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.160 which is difficult to do because the second book Lea 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.080 is directly after the first book and so and so forth. 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.800 But I'll try to speak in broad brushes because I 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.920 really think people should go and read it as blind 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:57.880 as possible. Um Lauren. Of course, eventually we will get 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.640 into spoilers, by the way, so I'll try to let 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.040 folks know when we get into that. But in the 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:08.880 second book, um Lauren is working on a community um 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:14.440 founded on her faith earth Seed, and they begin to 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:18.920 face persecution. I'll see after the election of this ultra 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:23.880 conservative president who vows to quote make America great again. 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.680 Being you know, a young black woman in a minority 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:34.440 religious faction in the United States of America. UM. Her 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:39.880 colony becomes a target of President Jared's reign of terror. UM. 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:45.920 And at the same time, Lauren's future daughter is navigating 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.280 the discovery of the mother that she didn't knew, that 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.319 she didn't know through the journals that her mother kept 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.439 through the years. And I think I'll leave it at that. 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.600 There are a lot of themes that you know, Butler 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:10.439 covers in these texts, UM, and in fact, I've seen 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.280 them described as but Lerian, which I would agree with, 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.360 because she covers them in other books of Who's as 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.920 well in different ways. UM. She talks about poverty and 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:24.240 slavery and freedom, just what perseverance. She navigates the this 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:29.280 idea of community and what community means, what how community 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:34.560 is both a balance of inclusion and exclusion at the 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:40.079 same time, and also the whole cycle of creation, destruction, 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:51.200 and rebirth that really defines human history right now, Well, 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:55.240 in that books, in the setting of that book, UM, 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:00.600 slavery has made a comeback more than it already has. 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.120 You know, you have these extreme forms of death slavery 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:09.600 and marital slavery, and probably even plantation slavery. UM. I 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.600 believe plantation slavery is mentioned in the second book. Um, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.880 and of course the slavery is inflicted upon the poor, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.880 particular a lot of company town style slavery right, where 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.480 people are like bonded, bound to a specific location because 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.600 of their employer, who protects them in this increasingly dangerous, 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:33.200 banded filled world. Yeah, exactly. And in this world, you know, 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:37.000 race remains a factor. Even though these books are written 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:43.400 in the eighties and nineties. I believe Parabolos overs three 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:50.560 and people right again like He's got or Butler has 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.160 a character using the same phrase. Trump would win the 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:59.199 president say, on, um, what is it twenty four years 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.760 before the start of his campaign. Um. Hard to overstate 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:05.559 the degree to which she was ahead of the curve 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.679 on a lot of things, because I mean, to be fair, 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:14.360 she knew America. You know, she grew up in segregation, 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:18.600 your America. She had to deal with her mother was 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.280 a domestic liberal, and so she had to go in 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.319 with her mother in these rich white families places through 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.520 the back door. Um. And you know, obviously that would 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:34.240 have shaped how she saw herself and herself in relation 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:40.120 to the wider world through to America as an idea, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:47.640 and so I think that as she's writing of this 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.360 you know, sort of horrific future, she's drawing a lot 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:56.880 from the horrific past, or rather America's horrific past, of 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:03.240 which her history is of heart. So Lauren, who is 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:08.360 in some ways Octavia but herself inside Um, spends a 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.720 lot of time in the book. In both books, allying 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:16.360 with people who are also minorities, who come from mixed backgrounds, 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:22.679 people who tend to be overlooked by the dominant Christian 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:30.680 religious right white um order, because I believe she finds 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:35.560 some sense of safety and strength in people who have 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:42.200 been so aligned slavery. Also ends up affecting Lawrence community too, 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.280 Um in many ways that I don't want to spoil. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:52.040 But despite it all, the theme of perseverance is really 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:59.440 what carries the story alone. Lauren ultimately is the archetype 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.679 of the persevera. You know, she preaches a sermon and 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.040 the importance of perseverance. She tries to get others to 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.800 see the importance of hard work, and she sticks to 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:14.880 her goals no matter what happens, and a lot happens 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:19.920 that would quite honestly discourage a lot of people, to 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:24.520 put it lightly, and yet she perseveres, and so let's 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:29.160 tie that in as well to American history. Particularly in 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.600 the first book, she ends up having to make a 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:38.200 journey north um to northern California, and throughout that journey, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.040 you know, she meets with other people and interacts with 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:47.280 the people, She makes allies and avoids enemies, and you 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.600 can honestly draw some parallels to the underground real Road. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.360 Of course it's not an exact one to one, but 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.400 in the sense of having to work with people along 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:02.079 the way to progress out of a terrible situation, a 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.680 hellish situation for the hoop, not the guarantee, but the 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.600 hoop of some form of salvation when you get to 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.920 the end of the journey. She doesn't do it to Lune. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.600 She does it with others um and that's kind of 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:20.560 what keeps her hoop alive. But it's not just externals. 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:24.480 She has a lot of intrinsic motivation to persevere, which 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:37.320 is driven by her philosophy. I mean, I think one 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.440 of the things, because there's there's a lot of meaning 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.600 and why she picks the parable of the sower in 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.560 the parable of the talents for and it's it's pretty 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.680 obvious and necessary next of the books, it's She's not 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.720 like hiding it under layers or anything. But one of 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.520 the things that in particular the second book deals with, um, 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.520 I mean in the first book to do a degree 0:14:55.680 --> 0:15:01.239 is kind of the the pointlessness of responding to dystopian 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.920 change in society by just like hunkering down in a 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.440 bunker and trying to hide from it and protect your 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.800 family like that. One of the reoccurring themes is the 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.160 degree to which that doesn't work. And one of the 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.640 things that's really interesting about this is a dystopian novel. 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:19.600 Um this is a novel that is, both of these 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.680 novels are kind of imagining the collapse of a lot 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.040 of aspects of American society, but it is not. At 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.240 no point does the United States really collapse in these books. 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.880 And and even like as much as authoritarianism is present, 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.480 at no point is the government completely taken over and 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.800 completely under the control of like a unified fascist regime 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.640 or anything. Like. Elections are still happen in company elections 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.640 going on the piece, but you know, you said have 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:52.120 to pay them to, you know, And and the the 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.400 like Christian death squad type things that are roaming around 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.800 are distinctly non state actors they have backing to as 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.840 an extent from the state. They're not really opposed by it, 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.160 but it's it's it's again, it's this thing that we 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:09.120 we are actually dealing with where collapse doesn't look like okay, 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.400 everything's fallen apart, and now it's whoever's got the strongest 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.960 group of buddies, who can who can you know, do 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:16.920 their best in the waste land. It's like no, no, no. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.280 It is about groups of people trying to navigate in 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:25.120 an increasingly dysfunctional state. And the only way to actually 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.160 survive that is um Survival is complicated, and it's never 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.560 as simple as just like picking a good farm to 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.120 hide on. You know that that's that's not going to 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.200 work out for you exactly. I just want to point 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.440 out as well, that's as just functional as things. People 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.040 are still going to work, not just the people who 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.480 are you know, in company talent or in debt bondage, 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.080 but even Lawrence father, you know, he takes his bike 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.240 every d and rides out into that chaos to go 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.120 on work for a weege to come back and to 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.200 try to support his family. And of course in this 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:01.320 kid community, we see that the attempts to see gated. 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:03.840 You know, it's also a few tile like the rich 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.520 have their high security communities and be able to escape 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:13.520 in helicopters when anything happens, but they have no security 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.160 even in this illusion of security and not huntering down 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.480 strategy they were taken wasn't working. In the first half 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:28.080 of the book really shows why. Yeah, it's um, it's 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.680 it's a it's a book about collapse by somebody who's 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:38.720 uh who, who grew up in a situation where her 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.000 her childhood had a lot of elements of the collapse 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:47.480 that many particularly like many folks are concerned about now, 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.320 Like that's what she grew up in was there's no 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:54.760 there's no protection, violence can come from all sides, and 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.119 it's random. Um, and you have no there are no 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.720 guarantees in this like world that you've come into, Which 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:03.800 is this thing that like people are freaking out about 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:08.359 now as we encounter kind of aspects of the the 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.159 world order that we had grown up with that we 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.199 feel like are falling apart. And I think the thing 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.000 that's so compelling about Butler is her books kind of 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.080 are coming from the perspective of someone for whom that 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:25.960 order and that world were never real. Yeah. Yeah, And 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.960 that's why her contributions to sci fi is so valuable, 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:30.960 you know, because all of these sci fi writes it's 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.200 just like regular privileged white Kays and you know, and 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.400 and they just come with that experience. And this isn't 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.120 often um repeated critique of sci fi. UM you see, 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.679 didn't tweet to themselves sometimes, where like a lot of 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:47.480 it is just like particularly like a literally did sci 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.040 fi is like whoa, what if the things that white 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.399 people did other people happen to white people? You know, 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.840 like this whole idea that these alien invasion um fears 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.640 an alien invasion story to just like what if clualism 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:08.439 but too white people to rich countries, you know. M hm. 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:14.119 Another part of the reason that the attempt to hunker 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:20.400 down and stuff and basically exclude others from their community 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.240 failed is because and Lauren rights this in her diary, 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:31.040 exclusion breeds resentment among the excluded. So even though Lawrence neighborhood, 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.199 while you know, gated and wall and stuff, was not 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.320 particularly rich, just the mere fact that they had those 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:45.240 walls up basically signaled to the outside world that they 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.840 had something to hide some sort of resources they wanted 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:52.119 to safeguard, even if the only thing they had to 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.280 safeguard with themselves because a lot of the members of 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:58.679 the community were you know, unemployed and extremely poor, that 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:03.760 alone sort of symbolized, uh sort of. It was sort 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:10.640 of a beacon um drawing people to eventually UM attack. 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:15.439 And that's a slight spoiler, but yeah, and you know, 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:21.840 despite the problems that exclusion and are causing, UM, Lauren 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:28.560 as she realizes that her community could not handle that approach. 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.400 Even then, as she's progressing your authors stuff and she's 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.720 to beating with herself, you know, who to bring into 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:44.760 her fold Exclusion and inclusion. They play a role, you know, Um, 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.560 she has to find form bonds and you know, stay safe. 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.720 But at the same time, the bonds that she forms 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:57.720 could put her in danger if she's betrayed or if 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:02.280 the people that she invests and end up being harmed 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:07.200 in some way, because the harm that they experience will 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:22.040 ultimately affect her as well. So, as Lauren is making 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.399 her way up Noah, she is continuing to wrestle with 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:31.080 this idea of inclusion and exclusion because as she's progressing 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.480 north in hopes of you know, building a community of 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:38.040 some kind, creating, joining, forming community or some kind. She's 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:46.119 also forming and establishing her religion. Like I mentioned before, 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:48.760 it played a major role in the community that she 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:53.000 came from, and in fact, novel points so that one 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.600 of the reasons people are attracted to, you know, religion, 0:21:55.680 --> 0:22:01.600 to Christianity in this chaotic time and in general, really 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:04.280 it's because it provides hope and hope in the form 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:08.840 of an afterlife, and hope is what people really really 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:14.119 need in these hellish twenties that they are dealing with. 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.800 The Lauren comes to realize that the hope and hope 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:23.720 and the afterlife ultimately isn't enough for the people that 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:28.080 have invested so much into it. Um one of the 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:34.199 people in the community, Um ends up despite being a 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:42.720 staunch believer that UM trigger warning by the way for suicide. Um, 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.800 despite being a strong believer that you know, suicide is 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.879 a sin and I was sending straight to hell. She 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:55.000 is so lost hope and can no longer trust in, 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.640 has been dealing with so much pain that she ends 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.560 up taking her own life. Yeah, and she takes her 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:03.800 own life, And as Lauren remarks, she takes her own 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:09.240 life knowing Um, or at least believing the pain hereafter, 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:13.679 and yet she finds it more of a reprieve than 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:20.719 the pain she was experiencing here now. And so as 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:25.200 Lauren is witnessing these things happening around her, Um is 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:33.119 dealing with, you know, loss and her baptism and her 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:39.000 father's commitment to the church, she is continuing to develop 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:42.600 the idea of earth Seed, and she begainst the contrast 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:48.800 earth Seed from christian with Christianity Um, and particularly in 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:53.359 the sense of how the two religions address hope and change. 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.240 In Christianity, you know, they have the hope Um of 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:03.480 the afterlife against this brutal life life now a life, 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:09.639 whereas earth Seed simply presents the central principle. God has changed. 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:14.480 That's the first principle of earth Seed. Second is that 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:19.000 shape God. So first you have to recognize and accept 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.920 that change is inevitable, often destructive, but you could also 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:26.560 recognize your poet to shape it Um. And so from 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:32.000 that comes the third principle, which has to to um 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:42.560 pursue the destiny, the destiny being the establishment of humanity 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:51.920 and other worlds. And to be quite honest, I am 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:55.840 as this is one aspect of the philosophy of hearths 0:24:55.880 --> 0:25:00.720 see that I think I diverge from Um Laura and 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:04.600 of course has a lot of focus on the heavens, 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:10.600 as in the cosmic heavens and scattering seed, which is, 0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:15.000 you know, humanity across you know, all these different planets, 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:20.600 establishing ourselves in different worlds. But I feel as though 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:25.960 the destiny is in a way once the destruction, I 0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:33.520 think it's it's a misplaced um, a misplaced who I guess. 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:36.679 I mean, there's that's kind of one of the points 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:39.720 of the book, right, because there's, especially in the second book, 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:43.320 there's a lot from the perspective of her daughter that 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:47.760 kind of shows how as as much her philosophy is 0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:52.280 a really understandable and in some ways admirable adaptation to 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:56.240 the completely fucked up times she was born into, it's 0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:59.080 also in the same way that a lot of other 0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:01.800 people's philosophy has become, you know, and that her parents 0:26:01.800 --> 0:26:05.240 and stuff are earlier in the first book, it's a 0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:09.960 way for her to kind of justify not paying attention 0:26:10.000 --> 0:26:12.600 to the people in her life and not not taking 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:15.040 proper care of them, because she's got this thing that's 0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:19.280 bigger than them, she works, and you really by the 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:21.679 by the end of the second book, you really have 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:24.439 to sort of contend with the fact that you know, 0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:29.040 you sort after grapple with how things with her daughter 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:36.520 would handle India. I guess I'll leave it at that. Um. Yeah, Yeah, 0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:41.280 that's part of it. I mean, she's so dedicated to 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:44.560 this cause, so this new religion of who um and 0:26:44.680 --> 0:26:47.359 you know she's recruiting people into it. You know, she's 0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:51.120 selling people leavest this hoop. You know that following its 0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:55.439 believe in the Destiny, eventually you know, space is going 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:57.920 to become the real life heaven. We could actually get 0:26:57.960 --> 0:27:00.680 out there and can you start for herself for ourselves? 0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:02.720 And that's part of it as well, part of the 0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:06.320 what idea of the Destiny is, you know, a fresh 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:09.960 stock for humanity, a sort of a maturation of humanity, 0:27:10.520 --> 0:27:14.080 This idea that you know, once humanity establishes itself in 0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:22.480 other wounds, that it would have grown up as a species. Yeah. 0:27:22.920 --> 0:27:26.080 And it's It's one of the things that I really 0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:28.800 respect about these books that I think a lesser writer 0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:31.800 wouldn't have been able to pull off, is that the 0:27:31.880 --> 0:27:34.639 degree without beating you in the head with it. You 0:27:34.960 --> 0:27:42.399 see her as first failed by the philosophies and ideologies 0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:48.040 of her parents generation and by the systems that people 0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:50.719 had gotten stuck in. She's very much a character who 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:52.399 grows up in a world where all the adults are 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:56.119 stuck UM essentially like a system that has become a 0:27:56.200 --> 0:28:00.480 death cult, and she has to figure out a way 0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:02.800 out of it. What she comes to believe in so 0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:05.399 much that in her own way, she becomes stuck in 0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:09.040 that new thing, and it renders her unable to see 0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:13.439 certain things that are important. And the book never portrays 0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:16.520 her as completely right or completely wrong, because that's just 0:28:16.640 --> 0:28:21.320 not how civilization works. Things just change over time. And 0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:26.040 you know, the the ideology that her parents and the 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:28.240 adults are all stuck in in the beginning of the 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:30.680 book is an ideology that worked to a degree at 0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:33.800 some point in the past. Um, which is just it, 0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:36.639 It's it's It does a really good job of of 0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.080