WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 020621 Lesser-Known Moments in Black History 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.800 Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm host Ramsay's job. 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:05.920 They called me q Ward and that just so happens 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.119 to be my first initial in my last name. I 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.879 don't want to confuse some about it. What's up, Joah, 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:17.159 everything man? What's going on? Ah Man? I promised land this. 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:24.400 Indeed, so welcome to Black History Month. Are this is 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.360 our first Black History Month as a show, indeed, and 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:34.440 we're going to talk about it. The thing is, I 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:36.760 want to talk about some of the things that aren't 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.720 as widely known because you know, every year we hear about, 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.680 you know, doctor King, and we hear about, you know, 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:48.000 George Washington Carver making peanut butter, and you know, black 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.919 people invented stoplights and cotton gins and all this sort 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:55.280 of stuff. But there are some things that are part 0:00:55.360 --> 0:01:03.040 of the black African American call it legacy that aren't 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:09.720 as well known. But you know, people should know about them, 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.040 and people should be educated. You know. What happens is 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:17.600 a lot of times folks will kind of throw their 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.600 hands up when it comes to black folks. You know, 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.240 black folks are you know, they need to pull themselves up, 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.200 They need to figure out their own problems in their 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.240 community and so forth. And I get it. And if 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:29.679 you don't, if you don't have any deeper knowledge, that 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.360 sounds sensible. It sounds like, yeah, of course that makes sense. 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:37.399 But if you understand that, you know that those those 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.919 still waters run deep, and you know how deep it gets, 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.880 then perhaps you might find yourself being a bit more understanding, 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:53.840 empathetic and passionate, supportive, et cetera. And so in that spirit, 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:59.360 I would like to, you know, talk about some Black history. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:09.280 So I need to suggest to everyone that you know, 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.679 just like any anyone's history, any group of people, it's 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:17.240 not all pretty. Some of it is. It may be 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:22.280 difficult to revisit on today's show, one person in particular, 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:25.000 if we have enough time, we'll get to him. But 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.600 you know, some of the his legacy as far as 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.200 African Americans are concerned, is particularly troubling. But again I 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:36.440 think that it helps to as matter of fact, you 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:38.480 know what, we can talk about him now, you know, 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:45.720 so we'll start there. One of the things that's happening 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:50.880 in the world is that you know, everyone's getting vaccinated 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:53.520 for COVID nineteen. I just got my second vaccine, so 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:58.200 I am living the COVID free lifestyle. I'm mask off 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.919 COVID proofs as as future would suggest a mask off 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:07.320 out here. Uh No, I'm just joking. I still wear 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.720 my mask. But you know a lot of black folks 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:18.160 have been particularly concerned about getting that vaccine because of 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:25.160 a deep seated mistrust of the medical community and the 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:29.240 government by black folks. And you know, I do want 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.160 to talk about the Tuskegee experiments because you know, we 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.200 spent some time talking about that, and we said that 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:35.800 we peel back a few more layers when we had 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.680 the time. But I mentioned in that episode that it 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.280 actually goes back further than that. It goes back to 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:47.040 the beginning of black people in this country being used 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:54.800 as human guinea pigs. And so, you know, once upon 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:56.040 a time, as we all know, you used to be 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.200 able to buy people in this country. You could own 0:03:58.240 --> 0:03:59.560 them and they were your property. 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.680 Could did you buy a specific group of people? Could 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.160 you pick from any variety of people? 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.560 Was it just no? You could actually you could pick 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.040 from any variety of people, provided that they were black 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.800 African people. Okay, yeah, so you know, Henry Ford, you 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:16.920 can get any color as long as it's black. So 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.679 I think he got that from from slavery perhaps so. Anyway, 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:24.880 so today we're going to talk about or first rather, 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.680 we're going to talk about someone named James Marion Sims, 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:33.679 doctor James Marion Sims. So he's credited as the father, 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:40.120 the father of modern gynecology. He developed tools and surgical 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:45.279 techniques related to women's reproductive health. In eighteen seventy six 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.120 he was named president of the American Medical Association, and 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:53.240 in eighteen eighty he became president of the American Gynecological 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:58.279 Gynecological Society. Make sure I get that right, an organization 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.960 that he helped find found, so, you know, a man 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:10.240 who certainly provided a basis for you know, research in 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.160 women's studies. I think I have some some notes highlighted 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.760 where it suggests that once upon a time it was 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:23.760 not really ah in good taste to deal with women's 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:29.279 reproductive organs. It just was something that the medical community 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.919 didn't really take seriously, didn't really look into women's reproductive health. 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.560 And this guy kind of champion that, you know, he 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.960 just he peeped the weakness in the rap game and 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.680 sold it, you know, or in the vagina game in 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:49.800 this instance. So he the reason he was able to 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.800 get so much off in terms of research and so 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:57.839 much experimenting and studies and reports and things like that. 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:02.960 Written is because his research was conducted on the bodies 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.520 of enslaved Black Africans and he used them as medical 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:14.600 test subjects. And one thing that I have noted that 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.640 is still being brought up to this days, he experimented 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.120 on them without anesthesia. There's a there's a passage I 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.640 want to read in just a second, but that's something 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.880 that still perpetuates this day. I remember reading something maybe 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.520 a week ago, two weeks ago, something like that pertaining 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.719 to this deep seated mistrust that black folks have with 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:40.279 the medical community. And there was a doctor who was 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.479 not black, but this doctor's you know, he was under 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:48.320 the assumption that black people experienced pain at a lower 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.800 rate than white folks. And I wish I had earmarked it, 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:53.960 you know, but this, you know, and he was he 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.200 was well meaning, and he was educated. Of course, so 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.039 this guy's not out there doing the same things he 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:02.479 once did. But you know that it just goes to 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.920 show you how powerful myths can be, and how powerful 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.560 prejudice it and racism can be. You know, even if 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:14.560 you're not trying to cause harm to folks. You know, 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:17.840 if you take these certain things to be true and 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.720 you don't know any better and you don't have that perspective, 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.640 then you perpetuate that those racist beliefs, even if you 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:28.080 don't actively engage in hating people. Like if I don't 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:32.040 believe that dogs feel pain, and I kick dogs, you know, 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:33.840 or whatever it is I do to dogs and I 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.680 don't think that they feel pain, you know, then you 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.360 get you get what I'm saying there. But once you recognize, okay, 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:41.960 these dogs feel pain, it might change the way you 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:46.880 behave So of a terrible example, who wants to kick dogs? 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:51.200 But you know, I use dogs because oftentimes on this show, 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.480 we have to compare ourselves to dogs, because. 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:56.840 Unfavorably at that. 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:58.440 But a lot of times white folks will make a 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.000 big deal if something bad has happened into an. 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:04.720 We compare unfavorably to dogs, right sadly. 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:11.120 So, yes, this is one story about black history in 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.960 this country. A lot of the medical research that you 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:22.440 get the benefit of having and the experience and so forth, 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.200 the medicine that you enjoy, that research, a good amount 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:31.280 of it was conducted on enslaved black folks. You know, 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.480 this is before animal testing and before all the other 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:34.120 sort of stuff. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:34.360 You know. 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:36.439 So this is and this is around the time when 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:41.480 you see medicine go from just kind of being something 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.680 that you have to study for a year or two 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:45.520 and then you can become a doctor to something where 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.640 you have to like really really study and really know 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.240 what the human body is capable of. Is because during slavery, 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.200 you know, so much research was done, and in the 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.559 early nineteen hundreds there were things like the Teskegee experiments, 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.920 things like that that we know about, and many more 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.080 things that my assumption is that we don't know about, 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:09.319 we'll never know about, that were conducted on actual living 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.880 human beings. And as history has taught us, at least 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.200 in this country but largely around the world, the most 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:22.640 disposable human beings often are melanated. And so this guy 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.480 is just one of the people who is as I stated, 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:33.720 he celebrated as the father of you know, gynecology and 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.280 or modern gynecology. Like he invented a bunch of tools 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:42.440 that help you to get in there and you know, 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.719 get busy. In fact, I want to read one of 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:51.600 these passages here. He started off with no specific gynecological training. 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:57.760 Examining and treating female organs was widely considered offensive and unsavory. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:02.000 As I mentioned, his entry in treating women changed when 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.240 he was asked to help a patient who had fallen 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.760 off a horse and was suffering from pelvic and back pain. 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.800 To treat this woman's injury, Sims realized he needed to 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.760 look directly into her vagina. He positioned her on all fours, 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.600 leaning forward, and then used his fingers to help him 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.360 see inside. This discovery helped him developed a precursor to 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:26.240 the modern speculum. And then another example. This is in 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:27.839 the public domain too, by the way, so you can 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:34.800 look this up yourself. Brace yourself, all right. We know 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.400 three of the names of the female fistula patients from 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:43.199 Sims's own records, Lucy, Anarka, and Betsy. The first one 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.400 he operated on was eighteen year old Lucy. These were 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.120 slaves who eighteen year old Lucy, who had given birth 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.360 a few months prior and hadn't been able to control 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:57.760 her bladder since. During the procedure, patients were commonly naked 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.720 and asked to perch on their knees and bend forward 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:03.280 into their elbows, so their heads rested on their hands. 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.520 Lucy endured an hour long surgery, screaming and crying out 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.160 in pain as nearly a dozen other doctors watched. As 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:14.720 Sims later wrote, Lucy's agony was extreme. She became extremely 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.240 ill due to its controversial use of a sponge to 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.000 drain the urine away from the bladder, which led to 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.800 her which led her to contract blood poisoning. I thought 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:23.760 she was going to die. It took Lucy two to 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:29.480 three months to recover entirely from the effects of the operation. Again, slave, 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.520 no choice in the matter and no anesthesia. 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.319 The pain and screaming, I mean the screaming. Yeah, an 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.600 agony didn't give them the impression that maybe she felt pain. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:45.880 Funny how it works, right, Wow? You know, we understand 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:50.160 that there is a long history of people telling themselves 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.599 a separate story that is not based on the reality 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:55.680 of the world or the reality that they even see. 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:57.200 It could happen right in front of them, but if 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.679 they choose not to acknowledge it or see it, then 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.040 it may as will not be true. So you know, 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.520 this is how it goes. Fortunately, we have a show 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.600 called Civic Cipher and we're able to talk about that, 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:14.600 so I'll continue for a long time. Sin's fistular surgeries 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:19.480 were not successful. After thirty operations on one woman, a 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:24.520 seventeen year old enslaved woman named Anarka who was sorry, 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.960 who had a very traumatic labor and delivery, he finally 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:33.400 quote perfected his method after four years of experimentation. Afterwards, 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.440 he began to practice on white women using anesthesia, which 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.439 was new to the medical field at the time. And 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:42.520 then I'll spare the rest of this, but he goes 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:47.240 on to discuss how he experimented on enslaved children and 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.080 so forth. So happy Black history monk. 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.800 Happy. Interesting word choice. 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.640 Well, you know, it's I think it's important that we 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.280 discussed these things that we know about them. And you know, 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.200 there's good things and there's troubling things, and all of 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.080 it is history. All of it is there for public consumption, 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.160 and we need to know where we come from so 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.200 that history doesn't repeat itself, and it gives us an 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.840 idea of what to push for as we move forward. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.440 And so, you know, these stories certainly help frame where 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.800 we are, how we were treated, and give us a 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:34.200 baseline to demand what we deserve. Some folks make casts 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.160 for reparation. So you know, you got to and you 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.720 got to bear in mind that there's more than just 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.440 the impact that that might have on one or two 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:49.640 or three people. You know, there are generational psychological traumas 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.760 that are perpetuated for those who have read the Willie 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.600 Lynch Letter, regardless of whether or not you believe it 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.960 to be a first person account of what took place 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:08.200 or a work of fiction. The the logic and the 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.160 the reasoning is sound, and so those are the things 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.480 that you know, these things can can bring to life. 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.160 And so yeah, black history. Speaking of Black history, I 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.120 do want to take a moment before we move on 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.200 to give a shout out to somebody very very important 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:30.360 to me who has I believe made Black history. It 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.280 might be a you know, just a footnote or a small, little, 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.840 you know, paragraph in Black history, but I'll take it. 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:43.520 A very very very dear friend of mine recently was 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:50.960 named the official DJ for the Phoenix Suns, and I 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.720 wanted to take a moment to shout him out on 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:58.320 the radio because that's a tremendous accomplishment. It's a Black accomplishment, 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.160 and it's one more feather in our cap. 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:06.320 So congratulations to Q Ward, that's pretty dope. Congrats to 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:11.720 that fella as well. No, man, seriously, pretty cool. Yeah, 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:12.520 that's that's big. 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.680 So next time you guys go to a Sun's game, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.080 you'll hear Q on the turntables doing this thing. So 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:24.400 shout us automatic and automatic as well. All right, So 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:29.120 moving on some more black history for you. You know, as 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.040 I mentioned that we when we were initially talking about 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.800 the vaccine rollout, we didn't get a chance to go 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:42.400 into too much detail about the Tuskegee experiments, and so 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.640 I wanted to take some time today to explain exactly 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:52.280 what the Tuskegee experiments were, So allow me to read this. 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:57.160 The Tuskegee Experiment began in nineteen thirty two at a 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.680 time when there was no known treatment for syphlis, a 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.440 content ages venarial disease. After being recruited by the promise 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.080 of free medical care, six hundred African American men in 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:12.120 Macon County, Alabama were enrolled in the project, which aimed 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.880 to study the full progression of the disease. Participants were 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.520 primarily sharecroppers, and many had never before visited a doctor. 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:25.240 Doctors from the US Public Health Service were running the study. 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.240 That US stands for United States. 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:30.960 It was a government back study. Bill Clinton had to 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:35.280 apologize for this many years later, of course, but yeah, 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:41.440 nineteen thirty two, they recruited six hundred African American folks 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.880 to study the effects of syphilis. The quick and dirty 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.920 version of this is that these people were poor, limited 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:55.560 means black, the most disposable in society. These people were 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:02.160 deliberately intentionally infected with CISS and then given the treatment. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.160 And this is something that needs to be said, because 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:12.439 this is the most important component of this equation is 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.880 that they did not know that they were deliberately infected 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.560 with syphilis, and one told them that was what was 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:19.480 going to happen, is you know whatever, And this is 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:20.960 why the government ultimately wasn't in. 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:22.919 The pamphlet that they received when they signed up. 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:27.760 So what originally what they were getting treated for was 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:34.159 what they referred to as bad blood, right, and bad blood, 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.879 you know, was just a catch all term, you know, 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.000 anything that you know whatever. So if you got bad 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:41.800 blood or you think you have bad blood, you know, 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.080 come on down, we'll fix you up, and you know, 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:45.800 you can be a part of a medical study. And 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.000 then what they were doing was infecting them with syphilis 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:49.320 so that they could treat the syphilis. 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:51.200 Right, so. 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:59.720 You can imagine how that sort of scarring on the 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.200 But once this came out, once everyone knew about this, 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.040 then everything started looking suspect. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.040 You know, the distrust is earned. 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.280 Oh yeah, absolutely, it's not like you know. 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:11.360 Random paranoia. 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.880 Oh and then here's the crazy part. We're talking about history. 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:19.640 But you know, as I mentioned, there is still a 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:25.720 sizable disconnect between the medical community. Of course, we know 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:27.760 that there's a disconnect between the government and black people, 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.000 but the medical community and black people. As I mentioned, 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.399 there are doctors that are alive right now, practicing medicine 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:40.840 right now who have some idea that Black people are 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.240 fundamentally different in the way that we experience pain and 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.440 the way that we respond to treatment, and the way 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:47.920 that we articulate our pain. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:48.639 You know. 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.479 You know, if I say my leg hurts, you know 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.879 that it's not taking it seriously as often as someone 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.800 who is white. You know, this happens a lot with women. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.000 This is why more women died during childbirth and so forth. 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.720 You know, and these are all very googleable, and as 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.159 you know, Google does not cost money, so you know, 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.000 obviously I can't talk about everything on the show. But 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.480 just because this is black history doesn't mean that it's 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.360 not taking place today. And just because this has happened 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.639 in the past doesn't mean it is not still happening today. 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.760 And so, as you said, Q, the distrust is very 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:34.120 much earned. Now. Our challenges black people is to learn 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.199 how to trust, learn how to love, you know, and 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:37.679 so forth. Which is why it was so big on 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:38.760 getting that COVID. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:42.080 Vaccine nineteen thirties people. Because I think people hear about 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.920 the Tuskegee experiments and their mind is very long time ago. 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.639 My grandmother was almost an adult when this happened. My 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:51.560 grandmother is still alive, Like, I don't want this to 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.800 feel like it's five generations ago. 0:19:54.880 --> 0:20:01.159 Yeah. Well, the last person who was the last participant 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.480 of the Tuskegee experiments passed away in two thousand and four. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.120 Now bear in mind that syphilis that was deliberately injected 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.040 into these human beings wiped most of them out, and 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.720 then a lot of them died from other things, you know, 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:20.520 related to the disease. But yeah, so okay, let me 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:26.760 read on. So what does this say. The Associated Press 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:31.199 broke the story in July nineteen seventy two, forcing the 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.280 study to finally shut down. That means that the Tuskegee 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:38.040 experiments went from nineteen thirty two to nineteen seventy two. 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:45.000 So my mom was almost thirty when the experiment stopped. 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.400 I just want to keep keep your guy, keep giving 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.600 you guys some perspective on how recent this was. My mother, 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:58.720 not grandmother, So your mother twenty eight years old when 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.120 the Tuskegee experiments were finally shut down. 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.080 So you can imagine this was like like incredible, Like 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.600 this was like huge news, especially in the black community. 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.960 So that distrust in the seventies when this came out. 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.960 You know this, in the thirties, when they first started 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.080 doing the experience, no one knew what was happening. In 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.680 the seventies when everyone found out, which is again very 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.920 relatively speaking, that's modern history. There's people who were alive 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:27.919 that remember seeing that, Oh my god, they did what, 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.080 you know. And there's some people who are as educated 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:35.080 as we are that know how deep these roots go. 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:45.479 And so their distrust is valid, you know, or valid 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.760 is perhaps not the right word, but it's earned. Earned 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:55.200 is a better word. Right now, Again, we can't distrust everything, you. 0:21:55.160 --> 0:22:01.760 Know, but which is a kind of disturbing and growing problem. 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.840 We've went. We've gone from I don't really know to okay, 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:11.240 no facts are real. Yeah, and okay I won't I won't. Yeah, 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:11.520 we can't. 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:12.720 We can't go from one extreme. 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.439 Yeah, I know what, you won't derailist. But there's a 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.200 lot of people that look like us, that come from 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:20.520 where we come from, that are kind of preying on 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.960 that distrust exactly and using it as a catchall for 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:31.000 don't believe anything, nothing's real, everything is against you. Yeah, 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.080 and that's a tough place to operate from as well. 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:36.520 Just just operating in full out bad faith is. 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:38.440 Just not good. 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:46.720 So let's see, one hundred and twenty eight participants died 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:56.280 from syphilis, forty spouses had been diagnosed with it, and 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:58.880 the disease had been passed to nineteen children at birth. 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.600 People are still alive, some of them. As a result 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:08.320 of the Tuskege experiment, many African Americans developed lingering, deep 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:15.640 mistrust to public health officials and vaccines. During his apology, 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.600 oh yeah, oh yeah, Bill Clinton, when he was president, 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:23.720 he had to come and apologize. 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.200 He didn't have to, Well, I want to make sure 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:26.840 we say that. 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.679 That's fair, that's fair, But he did, and that is 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:31.280 an acknowledgment. 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:33.960 Yeah, he needed to, but didn't have to. 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:35.560 Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that no one's ever 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:39.040 going to apologize that's fair. But you know, he comes in, 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:44.600 he apologized for it. And what that does is it 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:49.720 makes people like us me and u Q who say 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:56.080 these things out loud look less crazy and less angry 0:23:56.160 --> 0:24:03.639 and less radical to folks that aren't as studied. Usually 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:07.280 they're white folks that feel like we should be very 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:13.359 happy with what we've been given and our station in life. Yeah, 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:15.440 and these are the sorts of people that would say 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.639 to us, well, you weren't in the Tuskegee experiment, so 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:20.000 what is the problem with that? 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:20.399 You know? 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.639 And and you know the e everything is wrong and 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:26.720 the world only looks the way that it looks to them, 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:28.399 you know, and if we don't see it their way, 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:32.840 then we're somehow wrong. And so by Clinton apologizing for this, 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:40.200 it allows us to live in a world where okay, 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:42.160 we both have to agree on the facts. We both 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:44.240 have to agree that this happened, and we have to 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:46.360 deal with the implications of that, because if the government 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:49.840 never even acknowledged it, much less apologize for it. Then 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.320 we again, we sound like crazy people to those people. 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:55.880 We sound like enemies to those people somehow, just by 0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:58.399 stating that the truth that the uh, you know, the 0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:00.800 first doctor we talked about, all his records are in 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:04.000 the public domain. Now this guy's all that stuff, though. 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:07.240 And it's important to point out as ignorant as some 0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:10.760 of these things may sound to us. We talked about 0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:13.919 on one of our shows, there's a it's either a 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:19.480 burning or a hanging photograph, and their families present at 0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:23.520 this picnic, it's important to point out by the very 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:26.359 nature of those people being there with their kids in 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:32.560 essence having a good time, some of them sincerely didn't 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:35.239