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Speaker 1: A man now charged with holding a woman captive under

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Speaker 1: key and padlock for four years? Was there no missing

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Speaker 1: person's report, No neighbor realized what was going on. No

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Speaker 1: family called to say where is she holding a woman?

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Speaker 1: Kidnapped under padlock and key with chains and burglar bars

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Speaker 1: for four years. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation

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Speaker 1: and Sirius XM one eleven. First of all, take a

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Speaker 1: loadstar friends at Katie RK. She said. All the excess

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Speaker 1: to the trailer at seven hundred West Green's Road were blocked,

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Speaker 1: There were burglar bars on the windows and three handguns

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Speaker 1: found inside, and last night, after bull cutters didn't work

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Speaker 1: on the padlock, the fire department had to use power

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Speaker 1: tools to cut through the bars to gain entry to

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Speaker 1: get her out. According to quote records, that she was

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Speaker 1: able to use a phone to call for help while

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Speaker 1: Sigura was at work. She told deputies he held her

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Speaker 1: at gunpoint and threatened to kill her. Multiple cameras are

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Speaker 1: mounted on the home. Wow, let me take that apart

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Speaker 1: for just a moment. All the exits were blocked, burglar

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Speaker 1: bars on the windows, three handguns found inside, bowl cutters

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Speaker 1: wouldn't work to dissemble the padlock. The fire department had

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Speaker 1: to actually use power tools to cut through bars to

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Speaker 1: gain entry to get her out. Wow with me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of what we know

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Speaker 1: right now. But first I want to go out to

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Speaker 1: crime online dot Com investigative reporter Nicole Parton. Nicole, where

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Speaker 1: did this happen? Nancy? This was InHand Rs County, Texas,

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Speaker 1: a small suburb of Houston, out kind of out in

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Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere, a little bit in a mobile home,

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Speaker 1: in a trailer there, and there were neighbors that were close,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't have any really direct next door neighbors

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Speaker 1: like we do in some of the communities we live

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Speaker 1: in today. It's all took place in Texas, just a

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Speaker 1: little bit south of Houston. You know, it's amazing to

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Speaker 1: me that in a community no one had any idea

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Speaker 1: that anything was going on. But you know, straight out

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Speaker 1: to Daryl Cohen, a former prosecutor now veteran civil attorney

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Speaker 1: in the Atlanta Jurisdiction on Facebook, Daryl B. Cohen, Darrell

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Speaker 1: face a being with us. How many times have we

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Speaker 1: argued it to a jury as prosecutors there aren't a

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Speaker 1: witness because everything happened behind closed doors. This isn't the

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Speaker 1: kind of crime that happens at the corner of Main

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Speaker 1: Street and Broadway. There are no witnesses except the victim,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a rape or Chamela Station case. Well,

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Speaker 1: we have to argue that because that's the truth. If

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Speaker 1: this is the case that he did all of this,

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Speaker 1: he's not going to do it openly and notoriously. He's

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Speaker 1: going to do it behind locked doors, behind padlocks. And

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Speaker 1: he's got to do it this way because if someone

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Speaker 1: or someone's found out, here come the police. Yep, here

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Speaker 1: comes the popo. You know. I looked very carefully at

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Speaker 1: the crime scene, and many people would immediately ask, well,

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Speaker 1: why didn't she yell out the window through the burglar bars?

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Speaker 1: The windows are actually boarded up, Nicole Parton. If you

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Speaker 1: look at the windows, there's plyboard across the windows. There's

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Speaker 1: no way she could have yelled out, right. I noticed

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Speaker 1: that they were all the glass had been removed and

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Speaker 1: the windows were boarded up, and then the burglar bars

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Speaker 1: were placed. Also on the doors, there were multiple padlocks,

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Speaker 1: not just the doorlock that was locked from the outside,

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Speaker 1: but each exit to that mobile home was closed with

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Speaker 1: multiple padlocks on the exterior, which leads me to the

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Speaker 1: theory that if at trial he could ever claim, if

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Speaker 1: he would try the amount of defense, that this was consensual,

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Speaker 1: that she stayed there, then why why they have all

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Speaker 1: the padlocks. In fact, let me hear that from KTRK

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Speaker 1: one more time. I want to hear about all the

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Speaker 1: padlocks and the measures he had taken to keep this

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Speaker 1: victim trapped inside for four years. She said. All the

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Speaker 1: excess to the trailer at seven hundred West Green's Road

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Speaker 1: were blocked. There were burglar bars on the windows and

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Speaker 1: three handguns found inside, and last night, after bolt cutters

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Speaker 1: didn't work on the padlock, the fire department had to

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Speaker 1: use power tools to cut through the bars to gain

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Speaker 1: entry to get her out. According to quote records, that

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Speaker 1: she was able to use a phone to call for

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Speaker 1: help while he was at work. She told deputies he

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Speaker 1: held her at gunpoint and threatened to kill her. Multiple

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Speaker 1: cameras are mounted on the home. Guys, it may be

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Speaker 1: fantastical to imagine that a victim could be held against

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Speaker 1: her will for four years without being able to escape,

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Speaker 1: but it's not the first time. Let's go to our

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Speaker 1: cut thirteen. We all remember the case of J. C. Dugard.

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Speaker 1: Here she is speaking to our friend Diane Sawyer. A

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Speaker 1: great car pulls up, A man rolls down the window

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Speaker 1: and his hand shoots out and I just feel numb.

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Speaker 1: My whole body is tingly. I don't know what it's from.

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Speaker 1: She had been paralyzed by a stun gun. I lost

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Speaker 1: control of my bladder. I wasn't even embarrassed on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Sharp edges of a pine cone are the last thing

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Speaker 1: she touches before she comes to face down on the

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Speaker 1: floor in the backseat of a car. The man behind

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Speaker 1: the wheel is Philip Garrito, a convicted sex offender supposedly

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Speaker 1: monitored by parole officers and doctors, holding her down on

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Speaker 1: the floor as his wife Nancy. The district attorney believes

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Speaker 1: Nancy scouted this little girl for her husband as a

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Speaker 1: prize some monitoring, because we find out he and his

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Speaker 1: wife keep jac Diggard locked away for eighteen years. Listen

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Speaker 1: to Cup fourteen. He takes away the pink clothes she

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Speaker 1: dressed in that morning. The only thing she has left

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Speaker 1: is a little ring shaped like a butterfly. She will

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Speaker 1: hide from him for eighteen years. Blanket over her head.

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Speaker 1: He walks her through a small area of grass toward

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Speaker 1: a fence where an opening is concealed by a tarp

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Speaker 1: and hidden behind the fence and deranged collection of sheds

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Speaker 1: and storage units which the people monitoring Garrito would not search.

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Speaker 1: One of them tiny, completely soundproof. He leads her inside

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Speaker 1: and takes out handcuffs, said that they there were the

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Speaker 1: fuzzy kind, so they wouldn't hurt as bad. There was

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Speaker 1: a palette on the floor, and then he said he'd

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Speaker 1: be back later. This girl held over a decade, even

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Speaker 1: giving birth in that shed. And this is a guy

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Speaker 1: that was under federal monitoring. That's some monitoring when they

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Speaker 1: can't kind of find a kidnap victim in the backyard,

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Speaker 1: handcuffed in a shed. For Pete's sake, listen to more.

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Speaker 1: I try not to cry because I couldn't wipe him

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Speaker 1: away or you know, and the naked itchy And at

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Speaker 1: one point she made a note to remember the sound

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Speaker 1: of the train so it would help her mom find her.

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Speaker 1: I was so lonely. I felt so alone. Have you

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Speaker 1: seen Ja c Lee Dugard? And one twenty miles away

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Speaker 1: the mother who loves her and will never give up.

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Speaker 1: Goes on television to make her first plea, it's pretty young,

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Speaker 1: innocent child. Friends have been searching all day and evening

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Speaker 1: police started searching in the neighborhood. Police set up a

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Speaker 1: run block and go door to door. Her classmates are

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Speaker 1: out in the streets holding up signs and in the

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Speaker 1: case we're covering right now. I know it's hard for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people to take in that she could

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Speaker 1: have been held for four years, but that is in

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Speaker 1: fact the claim. And when you hear the way that

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Speaker 1: that home was barricaded, I mean, common sense tells you

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Speaker 1: that there was no way she could have escaped. And

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Speaker 1: if she was there consensually, then why all the barricades.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now is doctor Michelle Joy, forensic clinical

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Speaker 1: and academic psychiatrist, author of an illustrated history of the

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Speaker 1: insanity defense. Doctor Joy, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: What is the power trip someone must be on to

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Speaker 1: hold a human captive for years on end? I mean

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Speaker 1: that's exactly a rate. It's a power trip. And you

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Speaker 1: see that literally manifested through all of those things that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about, those padlocks, those barriers, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is all about controlling every single moment. So when we

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Speaker 1: think about someone not being able to escape, that's because

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Speaker 1: there's control of every single thing these women, these girls

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Speaker 1: do for every single moment of those years and deckies.

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Speaker 1: We're just thinking about this victim. We will not release

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Speaker 1: her name. She has not made it public yet, being

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Speaker 1: kept away for four years up. But what about that neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eight. This is Sherman

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Speaker 1: chow Khou. It's a quiet neighborhood of mobile homes on

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Speaker 1: the north side. But Wednesday night, Harris County chefs deputy's

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Speaker 1: the fire department converge on this home. I'll exit to

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Speaker 1: the trailer were locked. There were burglar bars on the women.

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Speaker 1: Three handguns were located. A woman inside called saying Abraham Bravo,

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Speaker 1: sagurafendant hit chop. The complainant locked inside a trailer for

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Speaker 1: a four years. You know that's another issue. Let me

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Speaker 1: go out to Kathy Griffin joining US, Houston based private investigator,

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Speaker 1: owner of Kate Griff Investigations, the largest female owned investigative

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Speaker 1: agency in the state of Texas. That's saying a lot, Kathy,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being with us. Kathy, It's interesting to me

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Speaker 1: that the neighbors never thought anything was wrong with all

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Speaker 1: those padlocks on the doors, of the burglar bars, the

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Speaker 1: windows boarded up. They never suspected anything. Do people just

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Speaker 1: not want to see what's right in front of them? Well, Nanthy,

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Speaker 1: you're right, and this is a mobile home park, so

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Speaker 1: people tend to keep to themselves. But I think in

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Speaker 1: this situation there's more questions than answers. Wait wait, wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: why do you say that about a mobile home park. Well,

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Speaker 1: because they're spaced out usually, and so there's not you

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Speaker 1: don't have right next door neighbors. You have them far away,

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Speaker 1: and people just kind of keep to themselves and sometimes

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Speaker 1: are there, sometimes they're not, and you just have a

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Speaker 1: tendency to mind your own business more. Okay, Kathy, for

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Speaker 1: the first time ever, I completely disagree with you. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that people in mobile home parks are different

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Speaker 1: from people in any other neighborhood. I don't think that

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Speaker 1: they want to fraternize any more or less with their

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Speaker 1: neighbors than in any other area. Okay, I think that

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Speaker 1: people in general, you're in your own life, well, unless

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Speaker 1: you're Gladys Kravitz, in your own life and you're not

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Speaker 1: looking around for the most part at people around you

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Speaker 1: and what they're doing. But one thing about a mobile

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Speaker 1: home park is that may be different is there's not

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Speaker 1: always a tree line or big bushes or shrubs between homes,

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Speaker 1: so you could actually see the home next to you,

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Speaker 1: probably a lot better than let's say a rural area

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Speaker 1: where there's big, huge spaces acres between homes or in

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Speaker 1: a suburb where people plant trees around their home. They

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Speaker 1: should have been able to see it even better. Kathy,

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Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. I just think there's more questions

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Speaker 1: than answers in this situation. Again, why did she find

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Speaker 1: a phone suddenly after four years? And if there were

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Speaker 1: guns in the house, why didn't she grab the gun

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Speaker 1: if she knew where they were or didn't, And you

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Speaker 1: know what did the inside of the trailer look like?

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Speaker 1: So it's the victim's fault. No, I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: the victim's fault. I just think you know, you have

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Speaker 1: people friends, friends, and neighbors saying that she was outside,

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Speaker 1: that they went on dates. I think things are going

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Speaker 1: to come out that they were in a relationship on

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Speaker 1: and off. No, this is not not a good relationship. Obviously.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy grace. Okay, let's analyze what we're

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Speaker 1: hearing right here with me a very special guest and Kathy,

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Speaker 1: please let me enjoy the one moment that I ever

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Speaker 1: disagree with you. Okay, Alicia Cosy Qvis is with me.

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Speaker 1: Alicia was abducted, kidnapped as a teen girl, and when

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Speaker 1: she tells the story, it always gives me a chill

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Speaker 1: down my spine. Alicia is now a safety expert. She's

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Speaker 1: a motivational speaker about how she has triumphed over evil.

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Speaker 1: She was this close to death while she was kidnapped

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Speaker 1: as a young girl, abused in every way, and now

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Speaker 1: triumph and she is a motivational speaker. When I think

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Speaker 1: of her story, it's very upsetting until you see her

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Speaker 1: and hear her speak and you see how she has

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Speaker 1: overcome this obstacle, this thing that happened to her. You

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Speaker 1: can find her at Alicia Project, Alicia project dot org

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Alicia Project. Alicia cosa kevict that could

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Speaker 1: be said about you two they had a relationship, because

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Speaker 1: you did have an online relationship at first with someone

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Speaker 1: you thought was a girl your own age. I think

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Speaker 1: it's very natural to look deeply at what we think

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Speaker 1: we know, we don't know all the facts. But the

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Speaker 1: issue with this particular case is that this was an

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Speaker 1: adult when the thirded, and when it's a child, there's

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Speaker 1: clearly no fault to the victim and there never should be,

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Speaker 1: no matter if the child went along willingly. And I'm

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Speaker 1: saying that with the grades of air quotes ever, but

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Speaker 1: in this case, it is easier for people to judge

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Speaker 1: and blame the victim and to make it seem like

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Speaker 1: the situation isn't as dark and evil as the victim

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Speaker 1: is claiming it to be. And the fact is that

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Speaker 1: we don't know because we weren't there. But we do

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Speaker 1: have to go with what the victim said because the

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Speaker 1: victim was and she's very lucky to be alive, and

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Speaker 1: often when somebody is held captives, there doesn't need to

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Speaker 1: be changed necessarily that the chains of fear are so

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Speaker 1: incredibly strong that maybe she did go on dates, Maybe

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Speaker 1: she did go out and try to make him happy

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Speaker 1: or please him, or he said I will let you

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Speaker 1: go if you come out with this. We don't know,

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Speaker 1: We don't know the mind games he played. He certainly

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Speaker 1: had local bounds, but he also almost certainly had mental

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Speaker 1: chain If she were, in fact how captives, which it

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Speaker 1: sounds like a terrible story that this poor woman was well.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Daryl Cohen, just look at the place. It's

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Speaker 1: like four knocks. If he wasn't holding something in there,

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Speaker 1: then why all of that, the padlocks, the plywood at

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Speaker 1: the windows, the burglar bars over the plywood. I mean

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Speaker 1: they had to bring out the fire department to cut

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Speaker 1: into the home. Darryl. That says a lot to me

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Speaker 1: that she's not there willingly, Nancy. None of this makes

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Speaker 1: any good sense. It makes bad sense. She was probably

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Speaker 1: there not willingly at all, but has been pointed out psychologically.

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Speaker 1: When she knew that there were guns, she knew that

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Speaker 1: she could not get out, she knew how the padlocks were.

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Speaker 1: She mentally was in chains, and mentally in chains can

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Speaker 1: be a lot worse and physically a change. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: to you about the evidence. Let me just check. Daryl

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Speaker 1: Cohen JD. Not Daryl Cohen MD. Psychiatrist like doctor Michelle Joy.

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Speaker 1: So as much as I appreciate your armchair psychiatry, I'm

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Speaker 1: just talking to you about the hard facts, and the

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Speaker 1: hard facts are this home is circled basically in chains,

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Speaker 1: burglar bars, padlogs. That tells me something that proves something

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Speaker 1: in my mind. Daryl Cohen, do you disagree with that?

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Speaker 1: I don't disagree with that, Nancy, But I also know

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Speaker 1: there are times he was out doing his tattooing, and

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Speaker 1: there were times he was out being a barber, and

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Speaker 1: so she could have perhaps tried to escape. Oh, Dear

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Speaker 1: Lord in Heaven, blame the victim? What is wrong with you? Man?

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Speaker 1: Don't you remember your days as a prosecutor? Not blaming

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Speaker 1: the victim. I am just merely saying that because she

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Speaker 1: was psychologically in change, she wasn't physically restoring. Your Lord

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Speaker 1: in Heaven, please helped me. There were all these guns

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Speaker 1: in the home. The home was clearly locked up like

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Speaker 1: Fort Knox. To me, that till that is corroboration for

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Speaker 1: what she's saying. You know what, Hold on just a

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Speaker 1: mount Back to Alicia Kozakavitch, Alicia, could you, as much

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Speaker 1: as you wish, tell us your story and during that

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Speaker 1: time did you entertain escaping? Go ahead. When I was

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Speaker 1: thirteen years old, I was groomed online by initial predator.

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Speaker 1: This was back in two thousand and two, and there

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Speaker 1: was no conversation surrounding internet safety really at the time,

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Speaker 1: so it was very easy to blame the victim. In

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Speaker 1: my case, we'll get to in the end of the part.

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Speaker 1: But he kidnapped me from Pittzurh Pennsylvania, took me to Virginia,

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Speaker 1: where I was held captive in his basement, dungeon and

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Speaker 1: raped and beaten and tortured, and I was rescued because

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Speaker 1: he had live streamed what he was doing to me

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Speaker 1: to other people online. I did think certainly about escape

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Speaker 1: at the same time. What I can tell you is

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Speaker 1: that escape is almost deaf. You have to choose, am

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Speaker 1: I going to risk my life in this moment? Or

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Speaker 1: can I just imply? Can I just breathe for a

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Speaker 1: moment and try to get to that next second, And

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Speaker 1: if I can get to that next second, I can

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Speaker 1: get to that next minute, and I can get that

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Speaker 1: next minute, maybe I get that next hour and day.

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Speaker 1: You were just trying to live moment by moment. An

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Speaker 1: escape isn't something that is so easy. It is in

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Speaker 1: the movies, and there are cases where it happened, but

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Speaker 1: when it is something that there is so much fear,

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Speaker 1: and also that she was quite potentially being hurt. In

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Speaker 1: my case, he had hurt me horribly? Why would he

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Speaker 1: not kill me? That threat was not something that I

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Speaker 1: didn't believe. He had had already hurt me so badly,

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Speaker 1: so how could I say that he wouldn't. And in

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Speaker 1: my case, victim blaming was outrageous because people couldn't understand

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Speaker 1: the Internet at the time and grooming and all of that.

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Speaker 1: We don't. It's easy to think we know so much

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Speaker 1: by reading books and textbooks, and it's so much more

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Speaker 1: living in experience and having that inside perspective, and we're well,

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Speaker 1: maybe here from the victim more. I'm really glad that

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Speaker 1: her name isn't out there. It's been wonderful to know

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Speaker 1: that she may be able to move on, and also

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Speaker 1: that this is in the hands of the prosecutors and

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Speaker 1: of the legal team, that it's going to be looked over,

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Speaker 1: and that it's not just being assumed one way or

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Speaker 1: another because she called her help or what have you.

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Speaker 1: So the other thing, too, I just wanted to point

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Speaker 1: out is that this look what I four years It

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Speaker 1: very likely happened during COVID and for that very reason alone,

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Speaker 1: people may not have been looking or noticing anything because

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Speaker 1: we were all stunck inside joining me is doctor Harvey

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Speaker 1: cast show Board certified Emergency cure physician, healthcare consultant, CEO

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Speaker 1: of chat GPT and healthcare author of Revolutionize your Health

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Speaker 1: and Fitness with chat gbt's Modern weight loss Tacks. You know,

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Speaker 1: doctor Castro, I really appreciate you being with us. Could

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Speaker 1: you tell me your thoughts on what the victim has

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Speaker 1: endured and what you would be most interested in in

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Speaker 1: this case? This is a tough one in the heartfelt

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Speaker 1: to the patient. One of the first things that comes

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Speaker 1: to mind immediately when they come into the emergency of

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Speaker 1: a patient like this, would want I would prefer to

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Speaker 1: have a female doctor taking care of the patient, just

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Speaker 1: because to be sensitive to her health immediately. What I'd

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Speaker 1: be very worried about is the malnutrition, dehydration and obviously

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Speaker 1: the pencils that I won't go into because we have

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Speaker 1: a psychiatrist or psychologists on the board here, But why

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Speaker 1: just give me a tidbit and then I'll ask her

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Speaker 1: what is it? Yeah, but on the mental side, there's

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Speaker 1: so many parts of that, just a post traumatic stress

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Speaker 1: disorder and then you know, obviously them feelings that sensory

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Speaker 1: deprivement to the point where they can't talk to other people,

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Speaker 1: and they're doing their coping mechanisms to just survive, and

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Speaker 1: so they've adapted their mind and bring to these horrible situations.

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Speaker 1: But as an ear doctor, the main thing I'd be

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Speaker 1: looking for is things that are unfortunately going to kill them.

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Speaker 1: So wrapped on my a lifes due to the dehydration

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Speaker 1: slow down, I'm just a j I'm sorry, I'm sorry. UM.

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Speaker 1: A lot of patients that unfortunately go through this get

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Speaker 1: deprivation from food and nutrition, just basic water. And often

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Speaker 1: these patients are so dehydrated that their kidneys basically can

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Speaker 1: shut down due to the dehydration, and they can get

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Speaker 1: so bad that their muscles will actually break down. And

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Speaker 1: that disease process itself is called rabdough. And so these

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Speaker 1: are some urgent, emergent situation things that I see in

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Speaker 1: the emergency room. The other thing, unfortunately, these patients are

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Speaker 1: in chains and often they can have sores, and these

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Speaker 1: sources can get infected and they can have obviously fungus

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Speaker 1: or infections, and sometimes these things are life threatening just

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Speaker 1: because that infection has gone so profound and they have

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Speaker 1: lack medical care. And in this situation for four years,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine there's some interesting medical things that you

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Speaker 1: would normally not think about. For example, if I put

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Speaker 1: someone in a dark room, your vision actually will become impaired.

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Speaker 1: You may have a near sighted this. If I take

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Speaker 1: you away from just sensory in general, you're hearing, actually

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Speaker 1: you'll start having hearing loss or a medical condition called tonitis,

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Speaker 1: and all it is is just this wringing of the ears.

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Speaker 1: But these are things that we actually see in patients.

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Speaker 1: Other interesting medical conditions that we really have to look

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Speaker 1: for is you would never think a person would have

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Speaker 1: hypertension or strokes, but this stress that puts a lot

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Speaker 1: of stress on their body. And so often we're finding

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Speaker 1: patients that you would never think they would have hypertension

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Speaker 1: or predisposed to stroke having strokes at an early age

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Speaker 1: because they've gotten over that they've had this tremendous, horrible

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Speaker 1: stress on their body. The other one that that's not

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Speaker 1: quite often bought us is just a respiratory infection due

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Speaker 1: to the poor quality that these patients. For example, this

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Speaker 1: patient was in confined and I would imagine they would

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Speaker 1: have poor air quality and indexis heat. That's one of

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Speaker 1: my personal worries that to basically was dehydrated. So all

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Speaker 1: these things from a medical point of view is what

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Speaker 1: I'd be looking for if this person came into the

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Speaker 1: emergency room. Now you mentioned unable to speak because of

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Speaker 1: through deprivation. I was thinking back on the House of Horrors,

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Speaker 1: the Turpin children, the couple they married, couple that kept

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Speaker 1: all of their children locked in. Some of them could

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Speaker 1: hardly even stand once they were rescued because they have

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Speaker 1: been chained to beds and in closets for so long. Doctor, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting because that happens muscle atrophy. Basically, your muscle

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Speaker 1: withers away because if you think about it, you're not

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Speaker 1: putting stress on your body, which is helping build your muscle,

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Speaker 1: and if you're just unfortunately chained and confined to a

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Speaker 1: small area, that's often what happened to bring it to

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Speaker 1: a modern or more recent not recent, but just an example,

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Speaker 1: when the astronauts first came out of the first spaceships,

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Speaker 1: they would come out crawling, and they would never videotape

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Speaker 1: those astronauts because they didn't want to show the public

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Speaker 1: that they were so much at muscle atrophy that they

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Speaker 1: couldn't walk. Wow, I had no idea about that. I

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Speaker 1: want to circle back to doctor Michelle Joy, forensic clinical

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Speaker 1: and academic psychiatrist, Doctor Joy, doctor Harvey Caster. I brought

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Speaker 1: up so many issues, but I also want to circle

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Speaker 1: back to something that I'm really familiar with, prosecuting by

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Speaker 1: day and being in volunteer at the batter Woman Center

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Speaker 1: by night for nearly ten years. Very often I was

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Speaker 1: listening to Alicia Kozakevitch's talks The Woman, and it's typically

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Speaker 1: a woman is so afraid being murdered, killed, or tortured

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Speaker 1: even worse than they are being that they stay. Even

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Speaker 1: if they had a chance to leave, they're so afraid

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Speaker 1: they don't do it. So there's that mind conditioning, that brainwashing,

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Speaker 1: and other people on the outsicho, well, why didn't she leave?

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Speaker 1: We cannot understand the mind of someone that has been

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Speaker 1: abused in that manner. So padlocks are no padlocks. She

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Speaker 1: may have been afraid for her life. I know this.

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Speaker 1: Nobody saw her for four years, and I hardly think

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Speaker 1: she signed up for that doctor exactly exactly. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's almost more surprising to me is that she maintained

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Speaker 1: this sense of hope enough to actually look for her

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Speaker 1: phone four years later, to make that call to have

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00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: the courage to do that, right, because we see people

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Speaker 1: in abusive relationships, like you said, without the padlocks, that

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Speaker 1: are afraid to leave because of threats even to career

428
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: or family or something like this. Plus we don't know

429
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: this might have been the first time that she tried,

430
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: It might have been the hundredth time that she tried, right,

431
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: So what I see here as a story of resilience,

432
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: someone that kept hope for four years. I mean, we

433
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: hear about psychological effects of just one day of threats,

434
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: of one day of having a gun pointed at you,

435
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: of an attempted kidnapping, right, but this was four years

436
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: of that, So to maintain any sense of hope to

437
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: push forward to the future asily she was saying, you know,

438
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: one minute, one hour, one day. That's what surprises me,

439
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: not that she didn't try, but that she still had

440
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: that courage after the four years, rather than just a

441
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: coping mechanism. We've talked about coping mechanisms a couple of times.

442
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: To even get through from one day to the next,

443
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: one of those coping mechanisms would have likely have been

444
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: to shut down just to not have hope, right, to

445
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: sit there, to not think about the next day, because

446
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: to get your hopes up and then be disappointed, to

447
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: get your hopes up and then be abused, that cycle

448
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: is so torturous that instead of being surprised that she

449
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: didn't or she might not have done these things, I'm

450
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: surprised that she still could do it, because I mean that,

451
00:28:51,280 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: to me is really strength and resilience and courage. Time

452
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. If you think it's fantastical that

453
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: someone could remain a prisoner in a home for four years,

454
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: what about ten years? Does the name Ariel Castro ring

455
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: a bell? It does in my mind. Take a listen

456
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: to our cut sixteen our friends at ABC. The posters

457
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 1: have been part of Cleveland's landscape for a decade, the

458
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: weathered or tattered ones replaced again and again by families

459
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: who refused to give up, who refused to stop praying

460
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: for a moment like this. Okay, yeah, what's going on there?

461
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: I thank you. I've been mossing for ten years and

462
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: I'm here. I'm right now. That is the voice of

463
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: Amanda Berry calling nine one one tonight. Ten years. Not

464
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: only her, but Castro had other women that he was holding,

465
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: kidnapped for years and take a Listen now to a neighbor,

466
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: Charles Robinson, and I look and they see this girl

467
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: and she's just going nuts on the door. So I'm like,

468
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: what's your problem? You stuck just opened the door, and

469
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: she says, I can't. He got it locked. And I

470
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: look how he has it. It's only enough to reach

471
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: her hand out to grab the mail and you know,

472
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: close the door and she we you know, naturally gonna

473
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: pride open. That didn't work, so we had to kick

474
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: open the bottom. Luckily on that door was aluminum. It

475
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: was cheap. She climbed out with her daughter. She went

476
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: to my house. We called nine one one. They had

477
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: to kick the door in. And it's not just one

478
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: victim being held for ten years. Listen to Bill Ware

479
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: about five minutes after the police got here, see that girl,

480
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: Amanda told the police. I ain't just the only ones.

481
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: It's some old girls up in that house. So what

482
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: egan went up there, you know, thirty forty deep and

483
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: when they came out was just astonishing. Inside the home,

484
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: they also found Georgina de Jesus, who also went missing

485
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: from this very neighborhood nine years ago, walking home from

486
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: a middle school. A few blocks from were a man

487
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: had disappeared, and they also found Michelle Knight, who went

488
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: missing in two thousand, but since she was twenty at

489
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: the time, didn't get as much attention as the younger girls.

490
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: And every day people would walk by the missing posters

491
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: and they were right there being held captive for ten years.

492
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: It's not as fantastical as you might think. But back

493
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: to our case. Take a listen to our cut one

494
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: our friends at KTRK tonight. The door at number one

495
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: forty seven is still chained. Burglar bars remained on some

496
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: of the windows and plywood covers the square that was

497
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: cut open last night. Investigators with the Harris County Sheriff's

498
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: Office alleged that this is where a woman had been

499
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: held captive for years. Next person up is Abraham Bravo.

500
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: Forty two year old Abraham Sagura is now charged with

501
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: her kidnapping and he has a defense, of course, take

502
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: a listen to what he has to say in court.

503
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: Segura spoke up during his first court hearing today, the

504
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: hearing officer having to explain that this setting was not

505
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: the right time for his defense. Probable cause was already

506
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: found for bond the state laid out the allegations that

507
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: had kept the complaint out block inside a trailer for

508
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: four years, many family for four years, and did you

509
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: hear the astonished question for how many years? How many years?

510
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: Back to Alicia Koza Keevitch four years and he heard

511
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: the astonishment in that question how many years? As if

512
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: they don't believe it, but it is entirely believable if

513
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: you've ever been in that situation like you, Alicia. Absolutely,

514
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: If it is somebody who doesn't have a choice as

515
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: far as being there, then it could be four days,

516
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: it could be four years, it could be ten years.

517
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: It's not up to the victim. Now we're going to

518
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: hear what I believe. The defense is going to take

519
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: a Listen to Sabia Rayford. The investigators telling us Sigura

520
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: and the woman were dating and a missing person's report

521
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: was never filed on the thing that they're saying about

522
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: him was not the famous. A friend of Segura says

523
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: she and her husband have been close friends with him

524
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: for twenty years. The reason that he asked the burglar

525
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 1: bars and all that stuff that you have seen up

526
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: there was because they try to rob him, you know,

527
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: before they tried to get his held before, so he's

528
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: trying to protect her and protect himself too. The judge

529
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: also ruling that Segura have no contact with the victim.

530
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: Ask for Segura, he is not a US citizen, so

531
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: he is facing deportation to Mexico. What about that, Daryl Cole,

532
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: and you're a defense attorney. He was afraid he'd be burgled.

533
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: That's why he needed padlocks so intense the fire department

534
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: had to come remove them. I think that he actually

535
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: should not even utter that defense to his lawyer because

536
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: that is a crock of you know what, I certainly do.

537
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: Take a listen to share Minchow. That's four years. But

538
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: neighbors have a very different story. She would go out, Yes,

539
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: they would go out together on Sunday. They went out

540
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 1: to wash his car. In fact, this neighboring friend, who

541
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: does not want her identity revealed, says, the two have

542
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: been a couple for years. Okay, so let me ask

543
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: our shrink, And I mean that in a loving and

544
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 1: caring way, Doctor Michelle Joy. Doctor Joy, if they're a couple,

545
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: why did she use a cell phone? Want you to

546
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: get her hands on one and call police to be

547
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: rescued exactly exactly, and I think we don't know what

548
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: we don't know yet. But again, if we even draw

549
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: parallels to, you know, as we've talked about a couple

550
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: of times, to relationships without padlocks, I think, I think

551
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: what we're going to see here is that there was

552
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: control in every sense. There was emotional, verbal, physical, possibly sexual, right,

553
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: and so this could have been the one second, the

554
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: one moment that she was able to escape. And even

555
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: if they went I mean, we we've we've seen cases

556
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: in the news over the decades. You know, captives go

557
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: to the grocery store together. Right, there's it's not even

558
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: a real psychiatric diagnosis, but we talk about Stockholm syndrome

559
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: or you know, you you have to almost start to

560
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: have feelings toward the captor. In this case, maybe that

561
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 1: didn't happen, but we have to, we have to make

562
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: make a face right towards the people that might see us,

563
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: because maybe maybe that they as Alicia said, maybe she

564
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: was threatened that she would be killed if she even

565
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: looked away from him, you know, when they were washing

566
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: the car. Right. There are so many potential, scary, serious

567
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: and realistic forms of control in this because again going

568
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: back to Alicia. If they've done this one thing, what

569
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: wouldn't they do right if even they had kept her

570
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: for one day, even if they had kidnapped her and

571
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: it had converted from a voluntary car ride to padlocks,

572
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: what wouldn't they do next? And I think that's what

573
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: we'll see, and what we've seen so often is that

574
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: this steer permits every single decision that the woman, like

575
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: you said, usually the woman makes or doesn't make to

576
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 1: act over those days, weeks, months, and years. To Crime

577
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter Nicole Pardon, is it true

578
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: that all the exits to the home were blocked? That's correct, Nancy.

579
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: Every exit to the home was blocked with multiple locks.

580
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: Multiple locks, not just one locks like we have on

581
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: our home or even a couple, but multiple locks, multiple

582
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: cameras he had set up around the home so that

583
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: he could see if someone tries to enter or exit

584
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: the home, as well as those burglar bars on the windows. Nancy,

585
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: I'm reminded of Elizabeth Smart. She was held captive, also

586
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: seen in public with her captors. Yet that poor girl

587
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 1: was kidnapped until she was finally found and set free.

588
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: Just because this victim may have been seen in public,

589
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 1: she was still held captive behind those locks and bars.

590
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: To Kathy Griffin, joining US, renowned Houston based private investigator

591
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: and owner of k Griff Investigations, Inc. The largest female

592
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: owned investigative agency in the entire state of Texas. I

593
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: see what you're saying, and as a former prosecutor, I

594
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: would have to take into account what you said earlier, Kathy,

595
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 1: about what the neighbors said and what the neighbors perceived,

596
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: so I could battle it and shoot it down. In

597
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: my case, in chief, the fact that she may have

598
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: ever left the home with him. If she did, I

599
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: don't know that she did, but if she did, it

600
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: could have given the appearance that she was there willingly. Kathy,

601
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree, and her family needs to come

602
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: into play as far as why didn't they file a

603
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: missing police report. There's also allegation to drug and mental

604
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: health issues, so I think there's more information that's going

605
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 1: to come out. Again. The bottom line, she is definitely

606
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: a victim. I'm not saying that she's not. I just

607
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of questions they need to be answered.

608
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there're gonna be a lot of questions guys,

609
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: it's not the first time this has ever happened. To

610
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut nineteen and our friend

611
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: Jessica More. Police say the woman met fifty seven year

612
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: old James Pario Junior in New Mexico, where she agreed

613
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: to give him a ride to Arizona. They made their

614
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: way to California, where she says their relationship took a

615
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: violent turn. Police say Perio physically assaulted her, took away

616
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: her phone and debit cards. Eventually they ended up at

617
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: this New Jersey gas station, ending what police call a

618
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: year long nightmare. He just kept repeating that you know

619
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: he's kemping against my will, and eventually the state troopers

620
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: did get there. Pario Junior has now been charged with

621
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: kidnapping and aggravated assault. New Jersey State Police are looking

622
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 1: into the possibility that he may have held other women

623
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: against their will in the past, in that case, holding

624
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 1: her for a year. Alicia Kozakevitch, who has lived through

625
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: a similar nightmare, a bit even worse because she was

626
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: just a little girl when she was taken against her will.

627
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,479
Speaker 1: What goes through your mind when the purps not there

628
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: and you're all alone, Well, when the perpetrator's not there.

629
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: It's often the first time you can think, at least

630
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: in my case, it was the first time that I

631
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: was with my thoughts, and none of those thoughts were good,

632
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: other than the hopeful ones that my parents and family

633
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: and hopefully law enforcement was looking for me. I held

634
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: on to that hope and if he was going to

635
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 1: kill me, very likely, and I wasn't going to have

636
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: many more days, if any. But if it had gone

637
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: on and on and on and on, that hope would

638
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: dwindle and dwindle and dwindle. And I know, even in

639
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: the short time that I was held captive, I started

640
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: to accept my death and that I wouldn't get out

641
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: of there, and that you do lose hope and that

642
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: you're back and forth on it, and you have to

643
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: start to really think about is this is this going

644
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: to be the end of my life? And is this

645
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: person going to kill me? Because they certainly can. How

646
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: long were you held hostage? Four days? I was rescued

647
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: on the fourth day, and it was believed that he

648
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: was going to quite possibly kill me that night. And

649
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: that was the thing too. Four years, four years, four years.

650
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: It's amazing that she survived this long perpetrators. We hear

651
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: these cases, but they certainly stick out. We can name

652
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: so many, We can name almost all of them, now,

653
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: that is exactly. But we can't sit here and probably

654
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: name all the murder cases. There are so many who

655
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: are held captive for such a brief amount of time,

656
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: and the person does not keep them. Guys, we are

657
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 1: waiting for the next court appearance, and we wait as

658
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: justice unfalls. Goodbye friend,