1 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: At least one hundred and six people shot, fourteen of 2 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: them fatally. Police officers responding to gunshots and being met 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: with crowds hurling bottles at them. Seventeen shootings occurred and 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: twenty four people were injured. In the last twenty four hours. 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,159 Speaker 1: What was meant to be a celebration ended with a 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: one year old boy shot and killed. During the summer cookout. 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: Nine victims fatally shot tonight across four boroughs. In a 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: recent surge of violence in New York City, Homicide numbers 9 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: in the city of Milwaukee literally have doubled in twenty twenty. 10 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: This is now a third week in a row where 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: you have seen children shot and killed. Here, children as 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: young as ten years old, three years old, one year old, 13 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: and even this past week and a seven year old 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: shot and killed. Another deadly weekend on city streets. At 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: least nine people have died and forty more have been 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: rooted in shooting hi. This is new due to the virus. 17 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: I'm recording from home, so you may notice a difference 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: in audio quality on this episode of News World. Chaos 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: is in the streets of our American cities. Rioters cry 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: to defund the police while tearing our statues down. Shootings 21 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: are on the rise in Chicago, New York, Seattle, Los 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: Angeles and other major US cities. So how do we 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: stop this chaos? How do we restore law and order 24 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: and quell the cries to defund the police and instead 25 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: defend and support our men and women in blue. In 26 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, New York City police space similar chaos, 27 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: and they brought in a new New York City Police 28 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: commissioner who revitalized morale and cut crime, achieving the largest 29 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: crime declines in New York City's history. As Los Angeles 30 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: police chief from two thousand and two to two thousand 31 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: and nine, in a city known for its entrenched gang 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: culture and youth violence, he brought crime to historically low levels, 33 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: greatly improved race relations, and reached out to young people 34 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: with a range of innovative police progects. He is the 35 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: very person we need advice from it this morning, I'm 36 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: really pleased to welcome my guest, an old friend, William Bretton, 37 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: Executive Chairman of Risk Advisory at Tenniel. During a forty 38 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: six year career in law enforcement, he instituted progressive change 39 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: while leading six police departments, including seven years as chief 40 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: of the Los Angeles Police Department and two non consecutive 41 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: terms as the police commissioner in the City of New York. 42 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: He is the only person ever to lead the police 43 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: agencies of America's two largest cities. I'm really thrilled to 44 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: have Bill Broughton, who is I think one of the 45 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: great legends of policing in America, a man who really 46 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: developed an approach in New York and the nineties, took 47 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: it to Los Angeles as a really clear understanding of 48 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: how to preempt crime and of dramatically safer cities. Before 49 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: we get into the current crisis and what you were doing, 50 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: how you do it? Could you take just a couple 51 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: of minutes, because I've read your book, as you know, 52 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: you were very generous posted me in Los Angeles and 53 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: let me sit through a meeting of one of your 54 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: teams as they wrestled with planning and thinking. You somehow 55 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: either when you were the chief of the Subway Police 56 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: and then when you went back to Boston, somewhere in there, 57 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: you've got a notion of how you could organize activities 58 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: that would dramatically reduce the likelihood of crime, not so 59 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: much catching the criminals, but preempting the crime. How did 60 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: that all came about? This October fifteenth in Adverstry. Since 61 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: my appointment as a police officer in the Boston Police 62 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: depart in nineteen seventy in the middle of that extraordinarily 63 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: turbulent time in our history, coming out of the Civil 64 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: Rights movement, the assassination's President in Boston, and that same 65 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: year is we battled with the desegregation of public schools, 66 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: desegregation of public housing. So my rise from the magazine 67 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: Boston was during that very turbulent hour. But I've been 68 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: a strong supporter of adherent to the nine Principles of 69 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: policing aspilify Sir Robert Peel when he created Metropolitan Police 70 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: in London eighteen twenty nine, and the first of those 71 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: nine principles is the basic mission for which the police 72 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: exists is to prevent prying in disorder. I think those 73 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: words prevent trying to sort the most important words and 74 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: foundation of policing in the Western world. And I was 75 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: looking after be exposed to that concept in the mid seventies. 76 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: It's a young side and then lieutenant creating one of 77 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: the country's first neighborhood policing programs and very troubled crime 78 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: bring areas of Boston. Success in reducing crime and getting 79 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: corps involved with neighborhoods and neighborhood residents once again led 80 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: to my promotion in nineteen eighty after ten years of 81 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: Boston Police Department as the Superintendent in chief to try 82 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: and implement that sister citywide. So I also was exposed 83 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: to George Kelling and James Wilson, those two great individuals, 84 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: and the concept of broken windows quality of vice enforcement 85 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty two eighty three when they came out 86 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: with the famous Atlantic article. I had lived it in 87 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: the seventies and in resonated with me. And what resonated 88 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: with me was the importance of the idea of dealing 89 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: not only with crime major crime, violent crime, but at 90 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: the same time dealing with quality of life crime. There's 91 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: some called broken windows that Wilson and Kelling me Richard, 92 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: and in the seventies and eighties of America, we were 93 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: fighting a losing battle trying to deal with this major crime. 94 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: As we will be policing, we would be institutionalizing coupreds 95 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: of thousands of people coming out of our mental institutions, 96 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: creating an almost problem, and we still deal with fifty 97 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: years later, well intended intended consequences, and I came to 98 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: be a champion of the concept of dealing with both 99 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: at the same time, echoing Kelling and Wilson's incredibly articulate 100 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: and beautiful words and so coming into New Yarkhand City 101 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety is chief of the Transfer Police, four 102 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: thousand police officers for frolling the subways in the chaos 103 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: of New York City at that time, a lot of 104 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: what people were fearful of, not really recognize it was 105 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: what they saw every day, which would these signs of disorder. 106 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: Significant fairer asion would feed five thousand homeless people living 107 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: in the subways, begging and creating all types of disturbances, 108 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: and in the yearly few five millions of the arcas 109 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: is feeling unsafe in the system, which had at that 110 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: time a lot of crime. One hundred deaths every year 111 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: in the subway, twenty similar murders, average of sixty to 112 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: seventy crimes, haberies, assaults each day in the population of 113 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,119 Speaker 1: five millions. Meanwhile, on the streets, two thousand, two hundred 114 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: forty three murders, five thousand people shot, one hundred thousand robberies, 115 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: hundred thousand murgleis, hundred ten thousand stolen cars. But in 116 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: addition to all that serious crime was the chaos of 117 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: the graffiti, the aggressive begging and the squeegee pests that 118 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: have become so simvolid the science and tid windows, no 119 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: radio link time because at that time you were an 120 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: epidemic of stealing radios from CAUs so in some of 121 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: you that I am a strong adherent that the Royal 122 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: Police is not to just to respond to crime, not 123 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: to measure a response time, number of rests, number of appearances, 124 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: but importantly to prevent it, to find ways, and I 125 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: have found and the success I believe I had was 126 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: focusing on both issues at the same time and understanding 127 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: the links that uncontrolled societal behavior reach. The more significant 128 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: tolerance and opportunity more serious crime. A calm stat system, 129 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: the use of data and analytics to identify problems as 130 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: they were growing, so that you could try to prevent 131 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: them from growing initially, rather than waiting until they were 132 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: full scale. Econdemic time react intelligence, GATA crime statistics back 133 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: then every day Now you can gather them literally. If 134 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: the cops are taking reports and field rapid response, putting 135 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: cops on the dots, what is causing that increase in 136 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: crime or disorder affected tactics? And this is where the 137 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: concept of community policing, Now your partnership with the community 138 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: is essential. The police need to team up with the 139 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: neighborhood to identify one of their pride. Are they fearful 140 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: of disorder, a fearful of serious time? And then another 141 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: one of the nine principles or to our appeal, the 142 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: police and the community are one. They need to work together, 143 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: and if they work together, they can effectively not only 144 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: reduce trime to disorder, but they can develope coming back. 145 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: That sums up the foundation of our how I believe 146 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: we should police and going forward as we deal with 147 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: the turbulence in our society today. I still believe that 148 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: those founding principles of the nine Principles to our appeal 149 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: Kelly and Wilson and the wonderful writing and study that 150 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: they did that in those I still believe the way forward. 151 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: We're going to put the nine Principles on our show 152 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: page so people can get to them, because I understand it. 153 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: You basically developed a very data rich model that allowed 154 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: you to focus on sort of the hot spots of crime, 155 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: so you could think through how to create the possibilities 156 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: of crime occurring. I remember, in the one time you 157 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: allowed me to come out to Los Angeles and sit 158 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: through the planning session, they were looking at one particular 159 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: mall and how they could use police assets to just 160 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: literally eliminate the likelihood of a crime occurring. So you're 161 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: kind of preempting it, but you need the data in 162 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: order to preempt it. The story, which may be apocryphal, 163 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: is that when Juliani got elected and knew that stopping 164 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: crime was his number one test in terms of the 165 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: people of New York, that he asked each of the 166 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: applicants or the possibility to be commissioner whether or not 167 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: they could reduce crime and the other two gavement crimes 168 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: really beyond our control. And you said at least ten 169 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: percent the first year and actually did better than that. 170 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: Were you that confident because of your experience in Boston 171 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: and in the transit authority or why were you able 172 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: to sort of go out on that kind of a 173 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: limb with the normal model for people who had not 174 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: studied Wilson was to believe that you couldn't affect crime, 175 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: you could catch people where you couldn't really dramatically change it. 176 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: Were you surprised that it worked as well as it did, 177 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: because I think the New York's case, at least in 178 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 1: terms of example murders, the drop was astonishing and then 179 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: continued all the way through the Bloomberg mayorship had really 180 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: truly become a radically safer city. Was that a surprise 181 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: to you or to assume that was going to happen? 182 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: It was not a surprise. I had the benefit of 183 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: working for two years in the New York City transit system, 184 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 1: so I was coordinating and collaborating with the NYPD, which 185 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: I found to be an organization that was totally focused 186 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: on respawning to crime. After the fact, they were an 187 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: extraordinarily dysfunctional police department as it related to dealing with crime. 188 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: They were more focused on their interpretation and community policing 189 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: was on building relationships with the neighborhood and hoping that 190 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: better relationships would lead to crime reduction. My focus initially 191 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: was you had to get control of the crime first, 192 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: so you could make the streets safe for the neighborhood 193 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: residents to come out into those streets to engage and 194 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: interact with you and build up police legitimacies, the term 195 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: we use now and the idea of being able to 196 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: focus on the prevention of crime. Again, it goes back 197 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: to Sir Robert Peel, but it was what I learned 198 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: in the seventies in Boston neighborhood policing program in the 199 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: eighties in Boston heading up several police departments there, but 200 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: also in nineteen ninety I had the opportunity to be 201 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: exposed to Jack Maple, lieutenant and the Transfer police, who, 202 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: like myself, understood the importance of believing you could make 203 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: a difference. Both of us have log egos and we 204 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: really enjoy dealing with crises. And so when we sat 205 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: with Giuliani predicted that I would get crime down the 206 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: center the first year. I had no doubt of that 207 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: because the NYPD was doing such a poor job of 208 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: focusing on crime. They were focusing largely on community relations. 209 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: They were not gathering their crime information except reported a 210 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: couple of times a year to the FBI for the 211 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: annual crime report. They were not coordinating between their seventy 212 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: six precincts and their ten patrol bows, so there was 213 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: so much moon for improvement. Also, going back to my 214 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: experience and boss on the seventies, in my office, I 215 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: had huge maps on my wall of my police district, 216 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: and every night I would gather up all the reports 217 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: from the day, the fevers twenty four hours and put 218 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: dots on the map indicating different crimes robberies, rapes, murders, 219 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 1: and very quickly you'd start seeing clusters timely accurate intelligence. Secondly, 220 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: what I would then do is effectively direct police resources 221 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,119 Speaker 1: to that cluster, and I would give my offices detailed 222 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: information about what is happening in your sector, when is 223 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: it happening, and I want you to be in this 224 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: area at a certain time because you might be at 225 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: a detect a crime and progress you might be able 226 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: to prevent it from just your presence. And then lastly, 227 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: the idea of relentless follow up to continue mapping day 228 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: after day, month after month. So what I developed in 229 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: the seventies is what I brought to New York in 230 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: the nineties, and Jack Maple recognized it instantly, and out 231 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: of that came the concept of CompStat shot for computer 232 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: statistics timely accurate data. The idea of making police data driven, 233 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: but more importantly, holding the precinct command of three hundred 234 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: officers under his or her command accountable thought knowing what 235 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: was going on in their precinct, knowing what they were 236 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: doing to respond to it with the goal of stopping 237 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: it before it became ten to twenty incidents, and then 238 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: sharing in the CompStat meetings twice a week at headquarters 239 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: what were you doing, what's working, what's not So the 240 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: idea of transparency. Policing is a very closed society. Many respects, 241 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: comps don't even tell each other what's going on. CompStat 242 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: forced them to share, to be transparent and to be accountable. 243 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: So we brought accountability into play. And then Giuliani in 244 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: terms of the political leadership, willing to battle back against 245 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: all those that we're basically claiming that we were basically 246 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: doing it all wrong. Well, it was hard to argue 247 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: against the success rate that the largest crime declines in 248 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: the history of the city in nineteen ninety five, and 249 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: until recently, until January of this year, crime has gone 250 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: down in New York City for almost thirty straight years. 251 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: Think of that, for almost thirty straight years, and it 252 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: was only this year that re versed. For many years, 253 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: I always predicted that crime would never go up in 254 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: New York City again. Well, unfortunately, the politics, the pandemic, 255 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: so many things went wrong over the last six months 256 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: that I've been proven long because crime is going up, 257 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: not only in New York but unfortunately throughout the country. 258 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: At the moment, at least five children died in a 259 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: wave of gun violence in New York and Chicago alone. 260 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: Nearly one hundred and fifty people were shot Chicago may 261 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: or Lightwood. All of these forces are coming together at 262 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: the same time and making it very difficult the ecosystem 263 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: of public safety that isn't just law enforcement, but as 264 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: local community base, they too have really been hit hard. 265 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: If you could convince the Chicago politicians to retrain the 266 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: Chicago police force into a CompStat kind of approach, how 267 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: dramatically do you think you could affect the murder rate 268 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: in Chicago. Well, that process actually has been underway for 269 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: quite some time. A farmer, Sagan, who worked with me 270 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: in the LAPD, who helped work with me to develop 271 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: real time crime centup model. After New York's original real 272 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: time Crime center, which was the evolution of CompStat. Using 273 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: more and modern technology, we developed together a concept called 274 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: the evolution of policing from community policing into CompStat policing 275 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: into intelligence led policing right amount of the time at 276 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: nine eleven, where we began using intelligence and the ability 277 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: to gather data more quickly with improved computers than basically 278 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, that we moved into an error called precision policing. 279 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: And I wrote an article for the City Journal, the 280 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: Manhattan Institute Quarterly magazine on this which traced the history 281 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: of policing over the last fifty years and that evolution 282 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: where with precision we could identify within the larger population 283 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: the criminals that were committing the bulk of the population. 284 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: Ten percent of criminals commit basically about fifty percent of crime. 285 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: Ten percent of locations in the city are usually we're 286 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: about fifty percent of crime occur liquor store is being 287 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: held up, public housing developments, and there is an ability 288 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: with pocision to identify those locations, identify those people and 289 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: predict with growing certainty when crime might occur, and to 290 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: put your resources in there. Police leaders, you want to 291 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: have the right leaders. So the Chicago situation that you 292 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: reference a very from acting with most American major city 293 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: police chiefs and constant communication with him through Major City 294 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: Chiefs Association police executive research for him. So Dave Brown out, 295 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: there is a farmer chief in Dallas. He is wrestling 296 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: with each city like a human being is different. No 297 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: two are exactly alike. So you need a leader who 298 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: is good at diagnosing that city's particular illnesses. Chicago is 299 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: in some respects a basket case for everything that could 300 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: go wrong has gone wrong there in that you have 301 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: terribly lacked court systems. A prosecutor now, who's part of 302 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: the new wave of any of these prosecutors that are 303 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: being funded by the Open Society George sources Open Society 304 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: with the idea of pushing criminal justice reform. We need 305 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: criminal justice reform, but a lot of it's going too fast, 306 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: and Chicago is one of those examples. Too many people 307 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: coming out of prison too soon with inadequate supervision. So 308 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: Chicago has a whole mix of issues and despite best 309 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: efforts and including best efforts at Young Sage and I 310 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: talked about who developed that pocision policing program with me 311 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. He's been there advising that department for 312 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: several years. He's probably one of the top experts in 313 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: the country on CompStat and its evolution into predictive policing. 314 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: It's taking advantage about official intelligence and is still having 315 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: great difficulties there. And so what's going on in America 316 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: today is just think of all these major cities as 317 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: all these it's kind of like all these initiatives to 318 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: find a vaccine for coronavirus. Every one of these major cities, 319 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: whether it's Portland, Philadelphia, Boston, New York, they are all 320 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: basically peatree dishes in which police leaders, in some respects 321 00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 1: very capable leaders and others very poor, are wrestling with 322 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: variations of the disease. I'd like to think that in 323 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: my experience in all the departments I led, one of 324 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: I think my skills as I surround myself with very 325 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: smart people who I listened to the Jack Maples, the 326 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: world that John Timmody's Charlie Becks and using the CompStat model, 327 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: using the broken windows concept of dealing with crime, and 328 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: a sort at the same time that understanding how much 329 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: medicine needs to be applied to the patient does like 330 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: a doctor with the new vaccines, they're going to develop 331 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: those vaccines. Some of them may not work. Some of them, 332 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: like the first step in dealing with polio back on 333 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: the fifties, killed people. So the idea is as a 334 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: police chief trying to in my case, when I went 335 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: into New York recently twenty fourteen, could I safely reduce 336 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: some of the quality of life enforcement? Could I safely 337 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: reduce the number of people who are sending to jails? 338 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: Could I reduce summons is in favor of admonitions? Could 339 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: I reduce criminal summons in favor of civil summances? To 340 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: see if I could find a way where the patient 341 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: was responding well, meaning the community of New York, to 342 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: reduce medicine in my case, enforcement without a resultant resurgeant 343 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: of the virus. What we are seeing in New York, 344 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: and I think around the country as many of these 345 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: criminal justice reform movements have gone too fast, too large 346 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: a fashion in so many cities. We're seeing effectively the 347 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: crime virus, the disorder virus that we thought we had 348 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: corrected significantly in the nineties coming back. And now we 349 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: have a new generation of doctors trying to learn from 350 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: the successes of the past and modify it. To this 351 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: new virus that we're dealing with. And the new virus 352 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: is this idea of these demonstrations that well intended. I'm 353 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: a support of the criminal justice reform, but too quickly 354 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: get out of control, taken over by anarchists, taken by 355 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: demonstrators who are not demonstrating legitimately for our cause or 356 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: an issue. But are there really to go after government? 357 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: Go after police? And police unfortunately have become the pex 358 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: bad boy of government. So many responsibilities been put on 359 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: our shoulders as government has ineffectively dealt with them over 360 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: the years that policings may basically become the dumping ground 361 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: to fail. Government policies deal with the homeless, give it 362 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: the police. Can I deal with the narcotics problem, give 363 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: it to the police. Can deal with the emotionally disturbed? 364 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: Give it to the police. And we're understanding now that 365 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: the police can't. Basically we're general practitioners. Some of these 366 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: problems needs specialists. So as we're moving forward, we're getting 367 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: into the catchphrase of defund the police, which has become 368 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: the new buzzword. You know New York pretty doing well. 369 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: What do you think will be the impact of Dublasio's 370 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: both cutting a billion dollars from the budget and canceling 371 00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: the July class of eleven police. How does that affect 372 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: We're already seeing the effect of it in terms of 373 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: the impact on morality offices. The Police Union has been 374 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: coming out with full page ads in the New York 375 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: papers talking about the impact of all these cuts, And 376 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: if I could just briefly read a couple of lines 377 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: from that ad, you blame police officers in the street 378 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: for your quota to instalk question frisk policies. You decriminalize 379 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: public consumption of alcohol, public donation on reasonable noise. You 380 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: provold violent criminals, including cop killers, onto our streets. You 381 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: release half the population of Vicus Island the city jail. 382 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: You wanted us to enforce your social distancing regulations without 383 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: any guidance. That blamed us for the backlash and the 384 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: error coronavirus. That's another responsibility. Unfortunately, was early on dumped 385 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: on the police enforcing social distancing guidelines, even as they 386 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: wanted us to step away from stock, question and risk. 387 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: So on the one hand, they don't want us dealing 388 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: with social disorder. On the other hand, they now want 389 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: us to be as intruders or dealing with social distancing 390 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: once again, where government and government leadership is setting the 391 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: police up for confrontation. And so in the case of 392 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: New York with your reference, what we now have is 393 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: a demoralized police force, a dismayed police force, a derided 394 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: police force, a defunded police force, a diminished police force, 395 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: a depressed police force, and one that is significantly disengaged 396 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: from disorder. And it is a diminished police force and 397 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: transfers capacities and capabilities. And as recently as yesterday, the 398 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal had an article as part of the 399 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: budget crisis, the city is facing seven eight billion dollars 400 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: shortfall that was set of justification for the billion dollar 401 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: cut in the police budget. The city is no longer 402 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: going to spend funds on cleaning up graffiti, one of 403 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: the broken windows that George Kelling and I saw as 404 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: incredible signs of lack of control of government over neighborhoods. 405 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: You have that enrollent that you spend time in terms 406 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: of graffiti marrying even some of the most beautiful buildings 407 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: in the world. So can imagine what New York's will 408 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: look like in a year where they no longer clean 409 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: up graffiti on the highways and on buildings around the city. 410 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: The great mosaic that New York is looking like a 411 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: stained glass window in a church. Slowly they're breaking out 412 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: all those stained glass windows. That the police will no 413 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: longer be involved in homeless issues. Police increasingly not going 414 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 1: to be involved in dealing with emotionally disturbed responsibilities that 415 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: we've developed some skills at, but the problems have gotten 416 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: so immense and do require partnership with other government agencies. 417 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: So we have a major experiment underway in cities across America, 418 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: and we're going to see what the impact will be. 419 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: My own sense is one of pessimism, because I don't 420 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: think this idea of defunding the police, taking funds and 421 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: resources from the police to apply them elsewhere. I think 422 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: government is going to very quickly find that the police 423 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: were the most effective way to deal with these problems, 424 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: and at a time of budget crises, it's not the 425 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: time to be defunding the police. To the extent that, 426 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: with the exception of some radicals, most political leaders on 427 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: both sides of the aisle have run away from the 428 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: concept of taking money away from the police. And if 429 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: we think of the defund and saying catchy political phrase, 430 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: but it actually has four elements to it. There are 431 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: those that use the term to talk about reforming the police. Well, 432 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 1: that's what I am. I'm a police reformer and doing 433 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: it for fifty years. There are those who want to 434 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: dismantle the police, and we're going to see how that's 435 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: going to work out in Minneapolis. Those that want to 436 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: abolish the police, the file off super radical characters that 437 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: don't like government at all, induct to abolish government. And 438 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 1: then there is the defund the idea that a budget 439 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: crisis is going to be quite as some surgical reduction 440 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: of police responsibilities and money. So we've got a phenomenal 441 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: number of experiments underway around the country as all these 442 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: different ideas about what this defunding actually means, the alignment 443 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: of resources back to schools, back to health agencies. I'm 444 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: not optimistic about the success of a lot of these initiatives. 445 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: I will work, some clearly will not. But in the 446 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: short term, it's all happening too fast, and that's evidenced 447 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: by the rising crime in American cities and the rising disorder. 448 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: I keep going back to crime and disorder. The two 449 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: of them are linked and fifty years into this, the 450 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: country has still not learned that. I think three weekends ago, 451 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty two Americans were shot in one 452 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: weekend in New York and Chicago. But why do you 453 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: think it's so hard for people to figure out that 454 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: that ain't working? You know, Knude, I wish I had 455 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: the answers for that. We're caught up in this moment 456 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: in terms of the well intended effort to finally lacks 457 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: and increasingly now with the going Latino population, to fulfill 458 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: the promise of founding the idea of everybody equal before 459 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: the law, but the distortion of some of the reality 460 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: of life in the inner city, life in large areas, 461 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: life in minority communities. There's just too much churning. When 462 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: I talk about the churning, you certainly understand this, the 463 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: idea of not only in the midst of the racial 464 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: reform crisis, with the midst of the economic crisis, the 465 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: medical crises, the international crises, the tensions going even amount 466 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: of long time. As I've been alown for a long time, 467 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: and I thought, coming out of the seventies, I never 468 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: see the like of the sixties and seventies again. In 469 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: many respects. We're seeing it on steroids right now, and 470 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody has at this particular point in 471 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: time a clear idea of how to address all these issues. 472 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: And so in many cities a significant part of the population, 473 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: particularly a minority population. But what is different this time 474 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: than I think in previous times is what is thought 475 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: to be a racial justice issue for blocks and Latinos. 476 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: The huge numbers of whitead have turned out in these 477 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: demonstrations in New York. The majority of the people in 478 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: these demonstrations are white, younger people, the newer generation of millennials, 479 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: if you will. And where to their anger come from 480 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: around these issues, And that's something I don't think anybody 481 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: can figure it that this was like you were dealing 482 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: with an illness on the one hand, in terms of 483 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,719 Speaker 1: the blacks and Latinos and their grievances against the police, 484 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: and then when that began to erupt, all of a sudden, 485 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: out of seemingly nowhere came this new generation of whites, 486 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: younger people who are as angry as the police as 487 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: the blacks of Latinos. Where that came from, I think 488 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: is largely the impact of social media, something that we 489 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: didn't deal with in the seventies, eighties, nineties, began to 490 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: deal with in the twenty freeth century. And that's the 491 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: other storm, if you will, the turns all of this 492 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: social media, the fact that we are all connected every 493 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: day and we almost every day overdose on our respective issues, 494 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: all of us having a time keeping up with the 495 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: maelstone that's been created. It's doubly interesting to me because 496 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: you have, coming right off of demonstrations and looting and 497 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: buildings being burned down, you have the city council in 498 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: Minneapolis behaving as though none of that had happened. The 499 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: worst damage in the American city since the iOS in 500 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. The damage in Minneapolis is any respectsman under 501 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: plate largest damage from American city by any riot, with 502 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: the exception of Los Angeles. And the city council's reaction 503 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: is to decide they're going to replace the police department 504 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: with some kind of brand new, about to be invented 505 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: community public safety system, which strikes me as an invitation 506 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: for not just failure, but sort of a denial of 507 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: the reality that there are predators. And then you start 508 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: sending out unarmed people to deal with these folks. They're 509 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: just going to get killed. One of the reasons that 510 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: police had to be as assertive as they were in 511 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: the nineties was that the neighborhoods, neighborhood residents, neighborhood community 512 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: groups were not able to take on the drug gangs 513 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: that were so prevalent the York and other cities. And 514 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: it's unfortunate that in many cities, cities in particular, but 515 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: even it's the suburbs that gangs and other criminal elements 516 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: that the public as well intended, and as much as 517 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: they want to band together, still need the police to 518 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: effectively get control over a lot of these individuals. So Minneapolis, 519 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: I think, is going to be an abject as it 520 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: wrestles with the issues in large pot because they don't 521 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: recognize that they're not going to have the money despite 522 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: all their best intentions to effectively in their case. They 523 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: want to dismantle the police depot and take a lot 524 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: of functions away and create those functions elsewhere. That's extraordinarily costly, 525 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: and they don't have the money. In the meantime, they've 526 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: an incredibly demoralized police force that's going to be dealing 527 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: with still one of the highest crime rates in America. 528 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: I keep going back to my point about too much, 529 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: too soon. At another time, six months ago, before the 530 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: economic crisis we find ourselves in because of the pandemic, 531 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: a lot of these efforts could have potentially been undertaken 532 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: because we were financially as a country in much better 533 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: shape with best employment. That would have in basically modern times, 534 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: we would have been in a much better place to 535 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: undertake these efforts. Unfortunately, it took the crisis of the 536 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: George Floyd incident to bring about the societal turmoil we're in. 537 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: By trying how to address the changes that are being demanded, 538 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: they don't have the resources to do it, and by 539 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: diminishing the capabilities of the police at this time, and 540 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,239 Speaker 1: they're taking away all the modern tools. They don't want 541 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: us to use artificial intelligence, they don't want us to 542 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: use precision policing. They don't want us to use facial 543 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: recognition capability. They don't want us to do Jones because 544 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: we might spy on people. We're in a very tough place. 545 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: We are America will muddle through this one without great consequence, 546 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: and when we come out at the other end, that 547 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: hopefully so. I was getting a vaccine or vaccines for 548 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: the disease. Maybe we might also with all these experiments 549 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: going on in cities around America, we'll come up with 550 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: as we did in the early nineties with the concept 551 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: of community policing with federal funding that helped hundred thousand 552 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: more cops. With ideas such as comp set with a 553 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: number of very good mayors and good governors, number of 554 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: very good police leaders, in the nineties, we turned the 555 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: crime problem around. We reduced violent crime by over forty 556 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: percent in a few years. And in the seventies and 557 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: eighties we had given up hope that we could ever 558 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: do anything about reducing crime. So we remember Governor Coulmall 559 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: when I first started working with him as chief of 560 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: the Transfer Police, which at that time was heavily supported 561 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: by the state, and he was being touted as a 562 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: potential presidential candidate. And I remember where he was asked 563 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: about this growing crime problem in New York. And this 564 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: was at a time of twenty two hundred murders, five 565 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: thousand shootings. Subways thought to be so violent and unsafe. 566 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: Made a comments of the effect, and Fred Siegel talks 567 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: about this and as wonderful what the future once happened here? 568 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: The response I got to quomwell to that question was well, 569 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: maybe this is as good as it gets. You imagine 570 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety if we had felt that that was as 571 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: good as it was going to get twenty two hundred 572 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: and forty three murders in New York, we got a 573 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: down to about two hundred and seventy five over the 574 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: last couple of years. But coming back again, when I 575 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: take a look at what is going on in Argent, 576 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: who are these federal agents, unidentified and unmarked cars that 577 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: are raining down on the protesters board these people they 578 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: organized by and with the President of the United States. 579 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: Are there more of them? The use of stormtroopers under 580 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: the guise of law and order is a tactic that 581 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: is not appropriate to our country. In Portland, Oregon is 582 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: not out of control. To be sure, there are some 583 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: people who have strong feelings. I think this is abhorrent 584 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: and it's a clear political style. And ultimately, what I'm 585 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 1: worried about, and what others in my community are worried about, 586 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: is that Americans are going to be killed for doing 587 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: nothing other than standing up for American democratic principles. How 588 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: do you think the country should react when you have 589 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: a city government in Portland that has I think seven 590 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: consecutive weeks now of demonstrations and law breaking and attacks 591 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: on the federal courthouse and standing orders to the police 592 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: not to be doing anything effective about it. Portland's abasketis 593 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: has been for years. I think there's something about the 594 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: verified air and are gone in Washington, Seattle, Portland. Some 595 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: of the most significant disturbances in America over the last 596 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: twenty years have occurred in those two states in those cities, 597 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: whereas other American cities have had nothing near what they've 598 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: been experiencing over the last twenty years. There's something about 599 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: some elements of the population in Seattle and Portland, in 600 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: particular in Portland, tremendous tolerance for the so called quality 601 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: of life folk and windows issues that Kelly and Wilson 602 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: argue that if you didn't deal with those effectively, you'd 603 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: end up with both combination of high crime but also 604 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: the social disorder that we see that basically what's going 605 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: on is these demonstrations might start off as peaceful, but 606 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 1: they evolve very quickly into mob action because and are 607 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: now so many agitators, so many anarchists who are taking 608 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: advantage of these demonstrations to effectively come into broad daylight 609 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: and basically try to accomplish the goals, which is the 610 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,919 Speaker 1: dismantled government. Portland is one of those test cases where 611 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: night after night, where most of America has quieted down, 612 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,879 Speaker 1: they still have demonstrations, but they're buying large peaceful But 613 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: Portland is a special circumstance. The problem with Portland is 614 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 1: that many are watching it in the sense of if 615 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: the anarchists succeed in their efforts there, that might encourage 616 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: anarchists in other cities. Once again, who ended up being 617 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: so significant in some of the demonstrations we saw earlier 618 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: in the year in terms of the vandalism, the assaults 619 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: on police. What just happened in Chicago, Watching just on 620 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: the news this morning some of the videos of Chicago 621 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: police bicycle officers who without helmets instead of rocks, bottles 622 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: being thrown at them by what effectively was a mob 623 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,760 Speaker 1: of the police. Superintendent out there, Dave Brown, wonderful comments 624 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: from him. Mob action of the crowd or a a group 625 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: of demonstrators is not acceptable behavior. And what's happening in 626 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: Chicago over the last couple of nights, what's been happening 627 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: over the last several weeks in Portland. Is not demonstrations, 628 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: it's mob behavior. It is violence for the sake of violence. 629 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: It is excused to attack the police, and then when 630 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: police respawn to that violence being directed against them, then 631 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: that's pictured as basically police of use of force. I 632 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: can still remember standing on the steps of self Boston 633 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: High School on Father's Day with Bob Degrazi, the police commissioner, 634 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: and we were being stone by literally a thousand young 635 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 1: men fathers that were demonstrating and school busing, and where 636 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: it literally turned into haiyat. So I've been in receiving 637 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,280 Speaker 1: end of with a soft hat on and the bricks 638 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: and the bottles and literally thirty forty police trying to 639 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: protect the building with a thousand incredibly angry citizens basically 640 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: intent on causing you harm. So I've been there, and 641 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: I can understand the fear that it generates and how 642 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: quickly it can spin out of control. Doesn't the media 643 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: have some real responsiblity for refusing to report well, I 644 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: think in the sense of watching the media at the 645 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: moment that ilize the coverage has been significantly from my 646 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: perspective as a former police official and one who basically 647 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 1: watches it, maybe through police eyes oftentimes. I don't think 648 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: the coverage and a lot of American cities, a lot 649 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,760 Speaker 1: of the national coverage has been fair up until this point. 650 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: The media is almost brought into the idea that the 651 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: police are bad and all the good work that we 652 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: do day in and day out in times of crises 653 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: kind of lost sight of that. For example, the idea 654 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: a lot of these cities, I want to take school 655 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,919 Speaker 1: police out of the schools. The first time we have 656 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: a mass murder and an American school the police have 657 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: been taken out of it. Watch how quickly the sentiment 658 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 1: will change as who's going to end up responding to 659 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: that mass murder situation going to be the police who 660 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: were in the school at one time. We've been now 661 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: taken up because they were afraid that the police might 662 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: infect the students in an inappropriate way. The message that 663 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: is being sent by the city governments that police are 664 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: ought to be trusted, our young people can't interact with 665 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: the police. The whole idea in Los Angeles when I 666 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: was there was basically bringing young people. They have five 667 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: magnet schools there that had basically kids that would come 668 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: to school and uniform who wanted to be police officers. 669 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: Los Angeles is talking about doing away of those programs. 670 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: New York City they're trying to take the school police, 671 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,959 Speaker 1: who all unarmed, surveillance, vast majority of the African American women. 672 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: They're talking about taking them out of the schools. It 673 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 1: makes no sense, but the media, unfortunately in many respects 674 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: of many cities, have bought into this idea that the 675 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: police are bad and until we reform them, we're not 676 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: going to be poured on the good. And that's just 677 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 1: the way it is in America at the moment. And 678 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 1: you've been through an amazing amount of this. It's sort 679 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: of remarkable to think about how big a role you 680 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: played for over twenty years. When the process of writing 681 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,439 Speaker 1: a memoir turnaround was. When I left NYPD in ninety six, 682 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: I thought that was the end of my police career, 683 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: as I had never envisioned LA in two thousand and 684 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: two and then New York in twenty fourteen. What happened 685 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: in my case, fifty years of seeing the incredible reforms 686 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 1: that were made in a deeply flawed profession and institution 687 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: which I love dealing, the reforms are not being recognized. 688 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 1: It's like we're in an etch a sketch moment that 689 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: all the positive changes that myself and so many other 690 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: police leaders and so many corps work to make over 691 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 1: these last thirty forty years, it's been a very There's 692 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: so much of what is being called for that the 693 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: police need to do. Every one of those things is 694 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: being done in New York City, every one of them, 695 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: but everybody totally forgets all that the NYPD has been 696 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,479 Speaker 1: doing to deal with homeless, to deal with the mentally yield, 697 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: to deal with the drug addicted, to deal with racial tensions. 698 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,280 Speaker 1: It's a minority majority police department has a thousand Muslim 699 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,720 Speaker 1: officers as sixteen percent African American, has twenty almost twenty 700 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,759 Speaker 1: five percent female, has every sexual persuasion that in our 701 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 1: ranks out, they're not hiding, they're out, and all that's 702 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: been forgotten. And I just as somebody who's very proud 703 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,240 Speaker 1: but very conscious of the flaws in my former profession, 704 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: I just can't believe that how quickly the respect for 705 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: police has diminished. I talked earlier about these young white millennials. 706 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,479 Speaker 1: Where did their anger come from? Maybe for the fact 707 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: they weren't here in nineteen ninety when this city, in 708 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: this country, I knew it basically getting into politics was 709 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: going down the shoote, that we had given up on 710 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: the idea of dealing with crime effectively, and people like 711 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: myself of all my own harnt here that I always 712 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,320 Speaker 1: felt confident police could make a difference. And one of 713 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 1: the reasons we make a difference is because we focus 714 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,280 Speaker 1: on the cause of crime. There are many influences on crime. 715 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: We see a lot of them right now, joblessness, the economy, certainly, 716 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: the illness, the virus. But the cause of crime is 717 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: pure and simple. It's people. It's criminals or people a 718 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: moment of emotion and passion, and police can control that 719 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: behavior to change it. And that's what we began to 720 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: do in the nineties by stopping a lot of the 721 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:19,320 Speaker 1: street level crimes. We change behavior by controlling it. Challenges 722 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: to do it constitutionally, do it compassionately, do it consistently. 723 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: And were we perfect in that? We were not. We 724 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: may be over policed in certain areas. We maybe were 725 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,879 Speaker 1: not compassion enough, we were not consistent enough, but we 726 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: were trying in another effort that we made a great difference. 727 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: We're an imperfect institution. I worry at the moment that 728 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: so much of what they're demanding be done with the police, 729 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: we've already done. But it's as if nobody's paying attention. 730 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: If you go back to the murder rate and ninety three, 731 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: then come up to the president. The programs that you 732 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,439 Speaker 1: instituted have probably saved an access of twenty thousand MS 733 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: in New York cline of what seventeen hundred a year 734 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,839 Speaker 1: for the last twenty five years. It's really amazing. You've 735 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: had an amazing great Let me to say, I've often 736 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: told people, I guess for almost twenty years now that 737 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: if they read your book can turnaround and Juliani's book 738 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: on leadership, the amount they would learn about how you 739 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: can take a bureaucratic organization and re educate it and 740 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: move it to an entirely different standard and as a 741 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,839 Speaker 1: result have just a remarkable increase in effectiveness. It's great 742 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,359 Speaker 1: being with you. Will be a lot farther down the road, 743 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: won't we But thank you. This has been wonderful and 744 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: very educational. All the best of you. Thank you, and 745 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:55,439 Speaker 1: now I'll answer your questions. William from South Carolina asked 746 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: what can be done to overcome the fake news effect? 747 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: Of voters. There are three things. One to make sure 748 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: that the voters know it's fake news. That's part of 749 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 1: why we're doing an entire series now a podcast on 750 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: Shut Your Mouth, to point out just how far to 751 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: the left and how dishonest the fake news is. To 752 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: rely on the fact that things that are obvious and 753 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: real get through to people. So the fake news may 754 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,399 Speaker 1: not want to tell you about rioters and looters who 755 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: are bear carrying things down, but if you're watching the 756 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 1: TV and you're watching them tear things down, you get 757 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: the message no matter what the guy the left wing 758 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,040 Speaker 1: reporter standing there says. And three, you pick issues that 759 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: people care about, and you stay on them, and you 760 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: keep talking about them, and you break through despite the 761 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: fact that most of the reporters and most of the 762 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: editorial writers disagree with you deeply. It drives them crazy 763 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,720 Speaker 1: because the American people generally are aligned with moderate conservatism 764 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: and against left wing radicalism, and so all of these 765 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,399 Speaker 1: elite people turn out to be an elite in their 766 00:45:54,400 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 1: own brain, but not an elite in the country. Thank 767 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,839 Speaker 1: you to my guest William Bradon. You can read more 768 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: about restoring law and order in his book The Turnaround, 769 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: How America's top coop reversed the crime Epidemic on our 770 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 1: showpage at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced by 771 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,880 Speaker 1: Gaingwers three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producers de Wi Minors, 772 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 1: and our producer is Garnsey Slap. The artwork for the 773 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,479 Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Penney Special thanks to team 774 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: at Gingwish three sixty. Please email me with your questions 775 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 1: at Gingwish three sixty dot com slash questions. I'll answer 776 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,719 Speaker 1: them in future episodes. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I 777 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,520 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us 778 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 779 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: can learn where it's all about. You know. This is 780 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,959 Speaker 1: our one hundredth episode of Newtsworld. I want to thank 781 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 1: you for listening, for emailing me your questions, and for 782 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,319 Speaker 1: your great interest in the issues we all face as 783 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: a country. I'm new Gingwish. This is neutral