WEBVTT - The Cult of Policing, Part 2 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:09.560 Ah where it's us, the podcast that we are. It 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:15.200 could happen here behind the podcast bad stuff. It could 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:18.000 happen here, it is, it could happen here. Okay, Well 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.480 Part two of Why Police Are Occult? Thanks Garrison, Thanks 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.240 for doing the job. That is one of our jobs, certainly, 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:30.080 but apparently not mine. Alexander Williams back again, Um, Alexander, 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.919 how are you? How are you feeling good? Was your 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.120 life in a radically different place now than it was 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:42.880 when we ended part one? Oh? Yeah? Like no, Well 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.360 that's for the best, because anything that would change in 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.320 about the thirty seconds between these episodes probably would not 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.720 have been a positive change. You're letting the magic out. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:57.040 People are gonna know. Yeah, they should know already. Uh 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.120 So the next thing you've got here in terms of 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.399 characteristics that you saw inside the Police is the group 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.000 has a polarized US versus them mentality, which may cause 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:11.959 conflict with the wider society. Um. Yeah, and I I 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.399 think this is the one that like, yeah, we've all 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.160 we all kind of saw that one. Are you sure 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.800 about that one? I'm not convinced. Yeah, it was a 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:26.920 Eureka moment, right, Yeah, Um, I do think it's probably 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.640 worth a little bit of exploration about like what it 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:35.800 means emotionally to be told like I want to defund 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.720 or even abolish the police as a police officer, like 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:45.600 that's that's a um yeah, yeah. I remember the first 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.440 time that I heard that, the concept of it when 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:50.280 I was a cop. I think I was about five 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.240 years away from getting out, um and it blew my mind. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.600 It was it was like, I'm like, you don't know, 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:58.960 we don't have enough funding, Like how hell in the world? 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.600 But we can't you our job because in you know, 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.160 in our in my head, we're we're the thing holding 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:10.359 society up. If we're not here, everything falls apart and crumbles. Um. 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:12.600 So the idea of being told like we need to 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.160 defund the police for cops, it's it's an attack on 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.720 your values and your role in the world. It's also 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.520 attack on like your personal life because because your life 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.600 is police as well, right and and and it's and 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.240 it's like you're you. You've been talking a lot about 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.120 how the job becomes such a central part of your 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.600 identity that it's not even just attacking like your paycheck, 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.520 but it's attacking like your essence now as a person. 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.200 It is It's like if you've ever had a debate 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:45.239 with with an extremely like evangelical religious person, it's the 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:46.920 same as trying to tell a cop like, hey, you 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.800 don't actually hold society up. You're not exactly as important 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.760 as you think you are. Um. And like I said, like, 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:54.600 we don't get we don't get paid very much. Health 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.520 insurance usually isn't that good um our. Our unions that 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.240 we told as being the best usually pretty corrupt um. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.440 And they don't really go to bat for us and 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:06.200 get us the good health insurance and get us the 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.760 good pay. They get us just enough. And so when 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.240 a cop here's like, hey we defund the police, it's 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.320 like from our perspective, we think what we're hearing is 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.679 we don't appreciate you. We already think you get paid 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.800 too much. We we think of it less about like 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.520 the structure of law enforcement, and we think it personally 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.680 of like oh you don't think my kids should have dinner? Yeah, 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.440 And that's uh, I mean, yeah, of course that has 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.959 like of course it ends the way that we saw 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.600 it in you know, or at least it continues the 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.200 way we saw it continue last year, right, And and 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.080 it's I think it could help like people like us 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:44.840 are on one side of the line, and you know 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:46.240 the other people are on the other side of the 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.080 line still, and I think it could help people on 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.520 our side of the of the of the barricades to 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.400 understand just how willing these guys are to do things 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.880 and things that they wouldn't normally do, things that you 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.240 would never consider doing on your own, but for the 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:06.680 job and as an order, they'll do it because again, 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.960 it's part of their identity, and it's it's if you 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.280 know you're attacking me, you're also attacking my family. You're 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.600 you're It goes back to that grossman thing of being 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.400 We told a lot of um, no matter what you do, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.280 you go home tonight. So no matter what I do 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.800 on my shift, I go home tonight. It's better to 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:32.599 be judged by twelveth and carried by six. Yeah that one, Yeah, 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.200 I'm thinking of like the police of the riot line, 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.719 and yeah, you can see them being like middle aged 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.200 conservative dudes, like look at all these like fucking like 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.479 gay queer teenagers. Throws to fat me. Right, it's like 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.280 the specific thing you're like, oh you you like I'm 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.760 getting attacked by like the lowest of the low society. 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.919 I'm being attacked by like did like degenerates and like 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:58.280 this weird kind of scum. I'm actually what society should be. 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.960 The people that are fighting against me are like this 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.080 weird anti social thing, right, That's that's how it is 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:08.240 from their perspective. Um when almost an actuality. I've been 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.040 I've been slowly kind of appropriating that type of language 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.839 for when I see a cop do something horrible, I'm like, wow, 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.880 look at that, like anti social, violent freak, because you 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.719 can look at that language because it flips the way 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:25.080 we usually view like aesthetics when you know, because like 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.920 when you see someone do something quotably horribly violent but 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:29.960 they addressed in a uniform, it is it has the 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.720 appearance of being proper, but like, no, that actually still 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.920 is anti social and extremely violent. So I think flip, 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.240 I've been playing around with like flip flipping that language. 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.160 But you can definitely see it on the cops faces 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.480 when a whole bunch of like young queer as fun 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.960 people are throwing water bottles at them. Oh yeah, you can't. 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:49.960 And and the thing that the thing to remember about 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.680 most cops is they're there their ego is paper thin 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.360 their skin. They cannot take a joke, they cannot take 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.640 an insult. The the number of cops that I would see, 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:02.320 and I would argue that I saw some of the 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.440 worst worst behavior than on the streets, because because inside 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.840 the jail, you're you know, you're in your own little world. 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.119 You're inside these walls. The public can't see you unless 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.040 you're on camera and pre body cameras. You know where 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:17.320 all the cameras are. And I the the amount of 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.320 guys that like an inmate would call them like the 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.800 f slur or any other slur, and the cop would 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:29.960 just snap, we just lose their mind. And me and 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.160 another couple other guys being the only kind of cops 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:33.839 that would get in the guy's way and be like no. 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.080 And it was never we couldn't say no, that's wrong, 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:38.840 don't do that. It was always no, it's not worth it, 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.400 or no, you're gonna get in trouble, or no, you 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.160 know if you do that, he wins man. Because if 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:48.120 we said don't do that, it's wrong, we may have 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.400 we may have stopped that bad thing from happening, but 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:55.320 we have now marked ourselves as being, you know, potential apostates. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:02.320 Against the close. Um so yeah, that's yeah, calling them 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.760 names works. Six and stones do break coops bones, Like, 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.120 oh boy, it does work. Like in terms of if 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.840 if the goal is make them extremely angry, yes it 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:18.480 doesn't work. It's yeah, obviously. The next one you've got 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.760 is the leader. The leader is not accountable to any authorities, um, 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.000 which the police regulate and investigate themselves. That's one of 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.880 the most basic ones. But it does it kind of. 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.840 It does lead to this, Like it is interesting to 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.880 think about the way the Church of Scientology handles uh 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.160 misbehavior from its agents and the way that, like a 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.120 police department does. Because there's not a ton of daylight 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.960 betwixt the two. There's not listening to you the l 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.000 Ron episodes, anyone who hasn't listened to them, go back 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.800 and listen to them. They're fantastic, one of my favorites. 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.280 Um yeah, listening to that. And the way that they're 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:57.680 a little internalized security system was structured was very very 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.200 analog to exactly what happens law enforcement with their so 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:08.239 called policing themselves b s. Because god, they don't, they'll 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.160 do every little thing to manipulate the situation to have 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.360 the cop come out on top and not be in 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.800 trouble because who's gonna hold them responsible? That my own 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:21.480 guy at my own department's interviewing me. We've known each 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.080 other since we were kids, or I've known his dad, 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.320 or his dad's known me, or or he's you know, 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.760 related or whatever. It never works when the you know, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.480 the watchmen are watching themselves. It doesn't work. I don't 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.880 know how. We don't, well, I do know how, but 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.600 I really wish there was if we do have to 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:48.120 still have law enforcement civilian oversight with actual power, actual 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.000 authority to do. Yeah. That's that's the thing is that 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.920 everywhere and a lot of the times that's been try 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:58.280 to put into legislator, it doesn't. It's always like neutered. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:02.160 It's always like and like I've I've seen versions of 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:07.360 it pop up in Portland and it just never does anything. Yeah, 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.120 And that's I mean, obviously, the whole the question of 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:15.360 is to what extent can increasing civilian oversight UH solve problems? 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.560 To what extent is it like papering over them? Those 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.640 are all things worth discussing. Um. I think I want 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.480 to kind of keep us focused on the mindset that 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.000 that inflicates because that that's the thing that I don't 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.640 think people get in part because like most people who 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.240 are part of these abolitionous movements, most people who are 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.040 are on the sides that we are on this um 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.120 either probably don't know a police officer very well part 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.080 and certainly almost most of them have not been police officers. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:48.520 And I'm kind of wondering, what are you actually scared 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.800 of doing as a police officer, Like what what what 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:56.440 are you actually scared of in terms of like the blowback, 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.480 the fault, Like what what is it you actually get 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.240 worried about if it's not pissing off everyone else in 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:06.440 the city who wasn't a cop, you know. So Yeah, 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:08.840 what it comes down to is, uh, you know that 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.560 the the church of law, the Church of criminal justice, 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:16.400 and what they're scared of is so if I get 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:20.360 a dirty cop who's not blatantly doing something bad, like 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.680 he just he hit a guy too art or something, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.720 it's something that hasn't hit the news yet. Um, but 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.280 I have to morally, like ethically, on paper, I'm required 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.560 to have an I A division investigate these people. The 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.560 reason that in my head, when I was there and 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.720 being interviewed for these things, it's because you have to 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:45.280 hold up the infallibility of the law. It doesn't matter 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.760 what really happened. All that matters is what's in black 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.080 and white on paper in our files. If we ever 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.800 get audited by a federal body and we can say, look, 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.439 a bad thing happened, Yes, we investigated it. Here's what 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.920 Here were the results. And it's all about holding up 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:06.120 the infallibility of the law because if it really gets 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.840 out and cops really get in trouble for stuff like 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.880 some of the stuff that's been happening, where cops are 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:15.760 actually being convicted finally for doing terrible things, it erodes 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:20.000 the blind faith that the masses have in law enforcement. 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.200 Because I've heard people here in Utah, which is a 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.880 very conservative place, look at some of those shootings that 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:28.920 have happened where the cops have actually been found guilty, 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.920 and they've actually been like, oh wow, like I never 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.000 once thought a cop would do this, and it doesn't 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.040 sound like much, but in their head, that's that's a 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.640 seed that's setting in their consciousness. And that's that's the 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.959 whole point of the blue wall of silence and keeping 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:49.080 everything in the house is if everybody realizes that We're 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.560 just a little weird man behind a curtain. You know, 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:53.840 the Wizard of Oz doesn't work anymore. We have to 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:59.040 maintain this false image that we are infallible and we 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.480 know we know exactly what we're doing, and we are 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.480 taking care of you. You have to believe that, so 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:10.440 they'll do anything to maintain the lie. Wow. Yeah, that 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:15.280 makes sense. It's bleak, but it makes sense. Yeah, it 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:31.400 felt bleeping in there. This ties into kind of the 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.959 the role of like lying, right, and and and the 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:35.840 kind of the cult thing you're tying this into is 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.880 that like colts will often talk about how the things 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:41.640 the cult is doing are so important that you can 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.640 do terrible things to achieve them. Right. You see this 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.559 in the Church of Scientology and their dirty tricks programs. 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.920 Sent and On had its its version of this. Um 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:51.800 and you you've written here we are taught to lie 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.959 to get what we need. It's only true if it's 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.320 on tape or written down. As long as it looks good, 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:01.240 it is good. Um. And I uh mean, it made me, think, 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.559 among other things, of a guy I used to know 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:11.520 who became a local prosecutor um and eventually quit because 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.880 he kept being assured by police officers that like something 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.040 that they had put in like the charging document was true, 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.760 and then being unable to prove it in court. Um, 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:26.760 and it it pissed him off after a period of time. Um, 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:31.319 And I'm interested, like in the I'm sure like obviously 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.600 some fraction of people doing it are just like just 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:35.880 literally don't give a ship. But how does someone who 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:41.079 actually does have a moral compass and believe in the law. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.040 How does someone who really believes justify lying to screw 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:52.160 somebody over? Um, So asked the guy who was there, 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.439 who had morals, which is why I'm not there anymore. 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.000 I couldn't. And I actually got in trouble on a 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.720 couple of instances of everybody was going one way on 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.880 a story and I was going in the opposite direction. 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.880 And without using blatant terms, they use all the like 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.679 the little you know, legal legal fuckory terms to not 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:16.959 say what they're trying to say, but implying and getting 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:18.839 it across to you of like you need to get 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.560 on the same page, you need to tow the line, 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.440 you need to you need to get in here. And 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:29.240 I could never do it. I just I don't know, 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:31.520 that's just my moral fiber won't let me do that 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:35.360 kind of thing. Um. I once was told by a 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.520 lieutenant that I had my moral fiber was too high, 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.640 Like he literally told me, because you can't expect everyone 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.760 else to live up to your moral standards. And I'm like, dude, 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.920 we're we're supposed to be like a little bit above 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.760 the typical moral standard. We're supposed to be the example 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.800 of how you know, our civilians, our citizens are supposed 0:14:55.840 --> 0:15:01.280 to act. But it wasn't the truth. Yeah. I mean, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.280 my first I think kind of radicalizing thing very early 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.360 on was just like the fake drug scandal in Dallas 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.240 was realizing that like on a significant scale, uh, local 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.840 police had been planting ship on people in order to 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.720 charge them. People have gone to prison, which happens other 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.680 places too, But like, yeah, um, and I'm sure the 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.240 bulk of the work making something like that happen isn't 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.280 the people who are planting the fake drugs. The people 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.760 who realize that the department will look bad if it 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.120 gets out and then dedicate themselves to stopping it from 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.320 getting out even beyond because you have you know, X 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.600 number of people are willing to plant plant fake drugs 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.600 on a guy. But a much larger number of people 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.360 are willing to try to cover that up, so it's 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:46.080 not a problem. That's that's the thing I really appreciate about, Alex. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.480 You're framing of this in terms of like their main 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:51.800 or not one of the main motivations is not, you know, 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:57.000 actually doing the job itself. It's about it's about making 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.440 sure that their reality and by extension, what they everyone 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.680 else is a reality to be to stay the same 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.400 like they all of the effort into whether that be 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:09.200 lying for supposedly in their view, like moral reasons and 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.120 all this kind of work. It's it's it's it's to 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:15.200 maintain the specific version of reality. It's not it's not 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.880 actually for like like it's it's it's not for like 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.800 actually promoting what is like the law on the books 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.400 by any means. It's it's it's it's the it's the 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.160 thing like in hot Fuzz, it's for the greater good. 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.400 That's that's what that is. That is what they're trying 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.600 to That's what they're trying to do. So even if 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.320 they like it's, as long as their reality is maintained, 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.560 then you know, we have some semblance of like order 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:43.040 in the world, whether that be you know, this nostalgic, 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:48.200 semi like proto militaristic nationalist version of order. But that's 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.720 that's that's the thing that wants to be maintained. So 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.520 every every task, everything that they're doing isn't just a 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.080 simple task. It's all in the overall effort of maintaining 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:03.360 this like this perception. Um. And and that's a a 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:09.080 much more I think interesting way to think about police. Yeah, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.960 it really is. Uh, these guys in like in pill talk, 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:13.679 these guys would take the blue pill in a heartbeat, 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.080 and then they don't rest Morpheus for trying to deal drugs. 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.800 Like that's how dedicated these guys are to staying inside 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:24.159 this version of their reality. Now, um, I kind of 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.280 let's move on next to um, the next kind of 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.879 cult aspect, the leadership induces feelings of shame and or 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.360 guilt in order to influence and control members. And you're 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:38.320 talking you've looten down here, toxic masculinity and the warrior mindset. Yeah. Um, 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:40.520 do you have any kind of like case examples of 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.720 how that that actually looks of like kind of using 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.600 shame or guilt to people who aren't kind of in 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.200 the this quote quote unquote warrior mindset. Ah yeah, I 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.120 mean it happened a lot. Um. There was a lot 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.560 of Monday night quarterbacking that would happen, especially with the 0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:00.000 advent of like cameras and things becoming more popular. Uh 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.200 I loved my body camera. That was my little best friend. 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.920 But we would go you know, you go back and 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.160 you'd watch videos of incidents and things, and if somebody 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.320 wasn't like engaging fast enough, they would get roasted hard 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.199 like haze and you know, made fun of and mocked it. 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.960 And when you were in this, you know, we're a 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.960 family mindset, and you're you know, were we got each 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:22.720 other's backs and we only understand each other. And then 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.560 all of a sudden, you're on the outside because you 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:30.000 dared to have even a remotely moderate to liberal position 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.040 on anything, or you didn't jump in on the you know, 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.240 the the ass beating on something. You fast enough, they 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.400 turn on you fast. Like. The only thing I could 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.399 compare it to is like you know, every eighties and 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.640 like nineties military movie or or you know nerds movie 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:48.360 where people just haze the ship out of each other, 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.159 and it's that that dude brow. Everyone's got a our 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:58.240 wire sun tattoo on their bicep just rampant everywhere. I mean, 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.280 it permeated the whole place. It drove me that that 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:01.840 was one of the things that really drove me because 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.960 I've never been that kind of guy. I've always been 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.679 a a more of a a de escalation person and 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.360 a book reader. And then I think it helps explain 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.000 a lot why you see some of these videos where 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:16.480 it's just like, why did they go to zero to 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.679 tend from zero to tend so fast? Well, because somebody's 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:20.880 gonna make fun of them and call them names if 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.000 they don't go hard enough, fast enough on somebody when 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.439 they do certain things like and yeah, the zero to 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.280 a hundred thing also ties into that whole, that whole 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.919 hyper vigilance thing, that always being um a compressed spring. 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.439 And then it ties back into that warrior mindset of 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.840 like they tell you flat out like if anyone ever 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.120 attacks you, they're trying to kill you. It's it's there's 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:44.960 there's no ifans or, but you need to act like 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:46.560 they're trying to kill you, because it goes back to 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:48.480 the whole I'm going home at the end of the 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.520 shift kind of thing. And once once that's ingrained itself 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.560 into like your muscle memory, and that becomes the reflex 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.440 that becomes the thought that passes in front of your 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:02.600 mind when a critic incident happens. Then that's how you're 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:04.280 gonna act, and you're gonna do, and you're gonna go 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.200 from zero to a hundred because you're going to assume 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.960 that any little furtive movement movement which god, there's that language, 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.560 furtive movement, um, any little movement that someone makes, like 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:16.919 that's that's a green light. That's an excuse that I 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.600 can end whatever interaction I'm having with this person with 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:24.280 violence because they flinched enough where I think, Okay, I 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:29.960 got this. Yeah Jesus. Now one of the next ones 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:33.000 you have here is talking about recruitment, which obviously coult STU, 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:35.199 but also like it's a job and jobs do this 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.439 constantly recruiting. I'm kind of wondering because you've you've listed 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.159 here things like Explorer programs which are like r OTC 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.760 or the Boy Scouts kind of these different one of 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.240 which Kyle Rittenhouse did like ways in which kind of 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.800 people get onboarded. I'm wondering sort of what how you 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.439 see how you see police recruitment as a kind of 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.679 different in a fundamentally cult your way. Then you know, 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.600 every job has to bring in new people, right like, yeah, uh, 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.600 it's it's it didn't used to be this way. But 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.400 I think in the in the two thousands, especially when numbers, 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.640 staffing numbers really started to drop because it's I don't 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:11.320 know if they've just realized it wasn't worth it or 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:13.840 they found somewhere better to get paid. But employment has 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.320 gone down for law enforcement, and so recruitment goes up 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:20.720 in response. But now they have a more active role 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.160 in most places where it's almost on part with the military. 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.240 They'll go to job fairs, they go to high school 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.760 career days. Um, they didn't used to do that stuff. 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.520 And when they do, they'll they'll find someone to like 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.119 pull stuff out of the pulp culture zeitgeist. What we know? 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:41.199 What cool? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. What can we what can 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.000 we cash in on to try and draw these kids in, 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.240 because just like the military, cops are looking to pull 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:51.959 in disenfranchised kids who probably aren't going to go to college, 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.160 don't think it's an option, And here's this job. All 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:59.480 you need is a high school diploma, here's the health insurance. 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.840 Here's the tyrant package, which is trash. But you're seventeen, 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:04.320 you don't know that, you don't know how to read 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:12.440 all this, but it looks real goal yeah yeah, um yeah, yeah, 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:14.560 they explore stuff. I mean you're familiar with that. So 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:16.359 but yeah, they get little kids to go out and 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.080 you know, the little baby cops and it's I mean, 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:20.879 it's it's one of those things, like some of this 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:25.080 is so much deeper than even the the individual departments 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:27.560 or any choice made by the police, because like, as 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:29.040 a kid, some of the first toys I had were 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.640