1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: Ah where it's us, the podcast that we are. It 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: could happen here behind the podcast bad stuff. It could 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: happen here, it is, it could happen here. Okay, Well 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: Part two of Why Police Are Occult? Thanks Garrison, Thanks 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: for doing the job. That is one of our jobs, certainly, 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: but apparently not mine. Alexander Williams back again, Um, Alexander, 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: how are you? How are you feeling good? Was your 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: life in a radically different place now than it was 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: when we ended part one? Oh? Yeah? Like no, Well 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: that's for the best, because anything that would change in 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: about the thirty seconds between these episodes probably would not 12 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: have been a positive change. You're letting the magic out. 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: People are gonna know. Yeah, they should know already. Uh 14 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: So the next thing you've got here in terms of 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: characteristics that you saw inside the Police is the group 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: has a polarized US versus them mentality, which may cause 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: conflict with the wider society. Um. Yeah, and I I 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: think this is the one that like, yeah, we've all 19 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: we all kind of saw that one. Are you sure 20 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: about that one? I'm not convinced. Yeah, it was a 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: Eureka moment, right, Yeah, Um, I do think it's probably 22 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: worth a little bit of exploration about like what it 23 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: means emotionally to be told like I want to defund 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: or even abolish the police as a police officer, like 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: that's that's a um yeah, yeah. I remember the first 26 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: time that I heard that, the concept of it when 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: I was a cop. I think I was about five 28 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: years away from getting out, um and it blew my mind. 29 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: It was it was like, I'm like, you don't know, 30 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: we don't have enough funding, Like how hell in the world? 31 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: But we can't you our job because in you know, 32 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: in our in my head, we're we're the thing holding 33 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: society up. If we're not here, everything falls apart and crumbles. Um. 34 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: So the idea of being told like we need to 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: defund the police for cops, it's it's an attack on 36 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: your values and your role in the world. It's also 37 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: attack on like your personal life because because your life 38 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: is police as well, right and and and it's and 39 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: it's like you're you. You've been talking a lot about 40 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: how the job becomes such a central part of your 41 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: identity that it's not even just attacking like your paycheck, 42 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: but it's attacking like your essence now as a person. 43 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: It is It's like if you've ever had a debate 44 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 1: with with an extremely like evangelical religious person, it's the 45 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: same as trying to tell a cop like, hey, you 46 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: don't actually hold society up. You're not exactly as important 47 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: as you think you are. Um. And like I said, like, 48 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: we don't get we don't get paid very much. Health 49 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: insurance usually isn't that good um our. Our unions that 50 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: we told as being the best usually pretty corrupt um. 51 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: And they don't really go to bat for us and 52 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: get us the good health insurance and get us the 53 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: good pay. They get us just enough. And so when 54 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: a cop here's like, hey we defund the police, it's 55 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: like from our perspective, we think what we're hearing is 56 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: we don't appreciate you. We already think you get paid 57 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: too much. We we think of it less about like 58 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: the structure of law enforcement, and we think it personally 59 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: of like oh you don't think my kids should have dinner? Yeah, 60 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: And that's uh, I mean, yeah, of course that has 61 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 1: like of course it ends the way that we saw 62 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: it in you know, or at least it continues the 63 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: way we saw it continue last year, right, And and 64 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: it's I think it could help like people like us 65 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: are on one side of the line, and you know 66 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: the other people are on the other side of the 67 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: line still, and I think it could help people on 68 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: our side of the of the of the barricades to 69 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: understand just how willing these guys are to do things 70 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: and things that they wouldn't normally do, things that you 71 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: would never consider doing on your own, but for the 72 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: job and as an order, they'll do it because again, 73 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: it's part of their identity, and it's it's if you 74 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: know you're attacking me, you're also attacking my family. You're 75 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: you're It goes back to that grossman thing of being 76 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: We told a lot of um, no matter what you do, 77 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: you go home tonight. So no matter what I do 78 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: on my shift, I go home tonight. It's better to 79 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: be judged by twelveth and carried by six. Yeah that one, Yeah, 80 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of like the police of the riot line, 81 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: and yeah, you can see them being like middle aged 82 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: conservative dudes, like look at all these like fucking like 83 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: gay queer teenagers. Throws to fat me. Right, it's like 84 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: the specific thing you're like, oh you you like I'm 85 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: getting attacked by like the lowest of the low society. 86 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: I'm being attacked by like did like degenerates and like 87 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: this weird kind of scum. I'm actually what society should be. 88 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: The people that are fighting against me are like this 89 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: weird anti social thing, right, That's that's how it is 90 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: from their perspective. Um when almost an actuality. I've been 91 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: I've been slowly kind of appropriating that type of language 92 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: for when I see a cop do something horrible, I'm like, wow, 93 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: look at that, like anti social, violent freak, because you 94 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: can look at that language because it flips the way 95 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: we usually view like aesthetics when you know, because like 96 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: when you see someone do something quotably horribly violent but 97 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: they addressed in a uniform, it is it has the 98 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: appearance of being proper, but like, no, that actually still 99 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: is anti social and extremely violent. So I think flip, 100 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: I've been playing around with like flip flipping that language. 101 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: But you can definitely see it on the cops faces 102 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: when a whole bunch of like young queer as fun 103 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: people are throwing water bottles at them. Oh yeah, you can't. 104 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: And and the thing that the thing to remember about 105 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: most cops is they're there their ego is paper thin 106 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: their skin. They cannot take a joke, they cannot take 107 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: an insult. The the number of cops that I would see, 108 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: and I would argue that I saw some of the 109 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: worst worst behavior than on the streets, because because inside 110 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: the jail, you're you know, you're in your own little world. 111 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,119 Speaker 1: You're inside these walls. The public can't see you unless 112 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: you're on camera and pre body cameras. You know where 113 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: all the cameras are. And I the the amount of 114 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: guys that like an inmate would call them like the 115 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: f slur or any other slur, and the cop would 116 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: just snap, we just lose their mind. And me and 117 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: another couple other guys being the only kind of cops 118 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: that would get in the guy's way and be like no. 119 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: And it was never we couldn't say no, that's wrong, 120 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: don't do that. It was always no, it's not worth it, 121 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: or no, you're gonna get in trouble, or no, you 122 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: know if you do that, he wins man. Because if 123 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: we said don't do that, it's wrong, we may have 124 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: we may have stopped that bad thing from happening, but 125 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: we have now marked ourselves as being, you know, potential apostates. 126 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: Against the close. Um so yeah, that's yeah, calling them 127 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: names works. Six and stones do break coops bones, Like, 128 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: oh boy, it does work. Like in terms of if 129 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: if the goal is make them extremely angry, yes it 130 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: doesn't work. It's yeah, obviously. The next one you've got 131 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: is the leader. The leader is not accountable to any authorities, um, 132 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: which the police regulate and investigate themselves. That's one of 133 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: the most basic ones. But it does it kind of. 134 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: It does lead to this, Like it is interesting to 135 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: think about the way the Church of Scientology handles uh 136 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: misbehavior from its agents and the way that, like a 137 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: police department does. Because there's not a ton of daylight 138 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: betwixt the two. There's not listening to you the l 139 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: Ron episodes, anyone who hasn't listened to them, go back 140 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: and listen to them. They're fantastic, one of my favorites. 141 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: Um yeah, listening to that. And the way that they're 142 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: a little internalized security system was structured was very very 143 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: analog to exactly what happens law enforcement with their so 144 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:08,239 Speaker 1: called policing themselves b s. Because god, they don't, they'll 145 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: do every little thing to manipulate the situation to have 146 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: the cop come out on top and not be in 147 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: trouble because who's gonna hold them responsible? That my own 148 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: guy at my own department's interviewing me. We've known each 149 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: other since we were kids, or I've known his dad, 150 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: or his dad's known me, or or he's you know, 151 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: related or whatever. It never works when the you know, 152 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: the watchmen are watching themselves. It doesn't work. I don't 153 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: know how. We don't, well, I do know how, but 154 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: I really wish there was if we do have to 155 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: still have law enforcement civilian oversight with actual power, actual 156 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: authority to do. Yeah. That's that's the thing is that 157 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: everywhere and a lot of the times that's been try 158 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: to put into legislator, it doesn't. It's always like neutered. 159 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: It's always like and like I've I've seen versions of 160 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: it pop up in Portland and it just never does anything. Yeah, 161 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: And that's I mean, obviously, the whole the question of 162 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: is to what extent can increasing civilian oversight UH solve problems? 163 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: To what extent is it like papering over them? Those 164 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: are all things worth discussing. Um. I think I want 165 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: to kind of keep us focused on the mindset that 166 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: that inflicates because that that's the thing that I don't 167 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: think people get in part because like most people who 168 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: are part of these abolitionous movements, most people who are 169 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: are on the sides that we are on this um 170 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: either probably don't know a police officer very well part 171 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: and certainly almost most of them have not been police officers. 172 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: And I'm kind of wondering, what are you actually scared 173 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: of doing as a police officer, Like what what what 174 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: are you actually scared of in terms of like the blowback, 175 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: the fault, Like what what is it you actually get 176 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: worried about if it's not pissing off everyone else in 177 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: the city who wasn't a cop, you know. So Yeah, 178 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: what it comes down to is, uh, you know that 179 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: the the church of law, the Church of criminal justice, 180 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: and what they're scared of is so if I get 181 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: a dirty cop who's not blatantly doing something bad, like 182 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: he just he hit a guy too art or something, 183 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: it's something that hasn't hit the news yet. Um, but 184 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: I have to morally, like ethically, on paper, I'm required 185 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: to have an I A division investigate these people. The 186 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: reason that in my head, when I was there and 187 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: being interviewed for these things, it's because you have to 188 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: hold up the infallibility of the law. It doesn't matter 189 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: what really happened. All that matters is what's in black 190 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: and white on paper in our files. If we ever 191 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: get audited by a federal body and we can say, look, 192 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 1: a bad thing happened, Yes, we investigated it. Here's what 193 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: Here were the results. And it's all about holding up 194 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: the infallibility of the law because if it really gets 195 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: out and cops really get in trouble for stuff like 196 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: some of the stuff that's been happening, where cops are 197 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: actually being convicted finally for doing terrible things, it erodes 198 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: the blind faith that the masses have in law enforcement. 199 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: Because I've heard people here in Utah, which is a 200 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: very conservative place, look at some of those shootings that 201 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: have happened where the cops have actually been found guilty, 202 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: and they've actually been like, oh wow, like I never 203 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: once thought a cop would do this, and it doesn't 204 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: sound like much, but in their head, that's that's a 205 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: seed that's setting in their consciousness. And that's that's the 206 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 1: whole point of the blue wall of silence and keeping 207 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: everything in the house is if everybody realizes that We're 208 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: just a little weird man behind a curtain. You know, 209 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: the Wizard of Oz doesn't work anymore. We have to 210 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: maintain this false image that we are infallible and we 211 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: know we know exactly what we're doing, and we are 212 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: taking care of you. You have to believe that, so 213 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: they'll do anything to maintain the lie. Wow. Yeah, that 214 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: makes sense. It's bleak, but it makes sense. Yeah, it 215 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: felt bleeping in there. This ties into kind of the 216 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: the role of like lying, right, and and and the 217 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: kind of the cult thing you're tying this into is 218 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: that like colts will often talk about how the things 219 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: the cult is doing are so important that you can 220 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: do terrible things to achieve them. Right. You see this 221 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: in the Church of Scientology and their dirty tricks programs. 222 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: Sent and On had its its version of this. Um 223 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: and you you've written here we are taught to lie 224 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: to get what we need. It's only true if it's 225 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: on tape or written down. As long as it looks good, 226 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: it is good. Um. And I uh mean, it made me, think, 227 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: among other things, of a guy I used to know 228 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: who became a local prosecutor um and eventually quit because 229 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: he kept being assured by police officers that like something 230 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: that they had put in like the charging document was true, 231 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: and then being unable to prove it in court. Um, 232 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: and it it pissed him off after a period of time. Um, 233 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: And I'm interested, like in the I'm sure like obviously 234 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: some fraction of people doing it are just like just 235 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: literally don't give a ship. But how does someone who 236 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 1: actually does have a moral compass and believe in the law. 237 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: How does someone who really believes justify lying to screw 238 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: somebody over? Um, So asked the guy who was there, 239 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: who had morals, which is why I'm not there anymore. 240 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't. And I actually got in trouble on a 241 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: couple of instances of everybody was going one way on 242 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: a story and I was going in the opposite direction. 243 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: And without using blatant terms, they use all the like 244 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: the little you know, legal legal fuckory terms to not 245 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 1: say what they're trying to say, but implying and getting 246 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 1: it across to you of like you need to get 247 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: on the same page, you need to tow the line, 248 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: you need to you need to get in here. And 249 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: I could never do it. I just I don't know, 250 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: that's just my moral fiber won't let me do that 251 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um. I once was told by a 252 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: lieutenant that I had my moral fiber was too high, 253 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: Like he literally told me, because you can't expect everyone 254 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: else to live up to your moral standards. And I'm like, dude, 255 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: we're we're supposed to be like a little bit above 256 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: the typical moral standard. We're supposed to be the example 257 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: of how you know, our civilians, our citizens are supposed 258 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: to act. But it wasn't the truth. Yeah. I mean, 259 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: my first I think kind of radicalizing thing very early 260 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: on was just like the fake drug scandal in Dallas 261 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: was realizing that like on a significant scale, uh, local 262 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: police had been planting ship on people in order to 263 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: charge them. People have gone to prison, which happens other 264 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: places too, But like, yeah, um, and I'm sure the 265 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: bulk of the work making something like that happen isn't 266 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: the people who are planting the fake drugs. The people 267 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: who realize that the department will look bad if it 268 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: gets out and then dedicate themselves to stopping it from 269 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: getting out even beyond because you have you know, X 270 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: number of people are willing to plant plant fake drugs 271 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: on a guy. But a much larger number of people 272 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: are willing to try to cover that up, so it's 273 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: not a problem. That's that's the thing I really appreciate about, Alex. 274 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: You're framing of this in terms of like their main 275 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: or not one of the main motivations is not, you know, 276 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: actually doing the job itself. It's about it's about making 277 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: sure that their reality and by extension, what they everyone 278 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: else is a reality to be to stay the same 279 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: like they all of the effort into whether that be 280 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: lying for supposedly in their view, like moral reasons and 281 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: all this kind of work. It's it's it's it's to 282 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: maintain the specific version of reality. It's not it's not 283 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: actually for like like it's it's it's not for like 284 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: actually promoting what is like the law on the books 285 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: by any means. It's it's it's it's the it's the 286 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: thing like in hot Fuzz, it's for the greater good. 287 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: That's that's what that is. That is what they're trying 288 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: to That's what they're trying to do. So even if 289 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: they like it's, as long as their reality is maintained, 290 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: then you know, we have some semblance of like order 291 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: in the world, whether that be you know, this nostalgic, 292 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: semi like proto militaristic nationalist version of order. But that's 293 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: that's that's the thing that wants to be maintained. So 294 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: every every task, everything that they're doing isn't just a 295 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: simple task. It's all in the overall effort of maintaining 296 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: this like this perception. Um. And and that's a a 297 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: much more I think interesting way to think about police. Yeah, 298 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: it really is. Uh, these guys in like in pill talk, 299 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: these guys would take the blue pill in a heartbeat, 300 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: and then they don't rest Morpheus for trying to deal drugs. 301 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: Like that's how dedicated these guys are to staying inside 302 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: this version of their reality. Now, um, I kind of 303 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: let's move on next to um, the next kind of 304 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: cult aspect, the leadership induces feelings of shame and or 305 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: guilt in order to influence and control members. And you're 306 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: talking you've looten down here, toxic masculinity and the warrior mindset. Yeah. Um, 307 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: do you have any kind of like case examples of 308 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: how that that actually looks of like kind of using 309 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: shame or guilt to people who aren't kind of in 310 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: the this quote quote unquote warrior mindset. Ah yeah, I 311 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: mean it happened a lot. Um. There was a lot 312 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: of Monday night quarterbacking that would happen, especially with the 313 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: advent of like cameras and things becoming more popular. Uh 314 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: I loved my body camera. That was my little best friend. 315 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: But we would go you know, you go back and 316 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: you'd watch videos of incidents and things, and if somebody 317 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: wasn't like engaging fast enough, they would get roasted hard 318 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: like haze and you know, made fun of and mocked it. 319 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: And when you were in this, you know, we're a 320 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: family mindset, and you're you know, were we got each 321 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: other's backs and we only understand each other. And then 322 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're on the outside because you 323 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: dared to have even a remotely moderate to liberal position 324 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: on anything, or you didn't jump in on the you know, 325 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: the the ass beating on something. You fast enough, they 326 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: turn on you fast. Like. The only thing I could 327 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: compare it to is like you know, every eighties and 328 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: like nineties military movie or or you know nerds movie 329 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: where people just haze the ship out of each other, 330 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: and it's that that dude brow. Everyone's got a our 331 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: wire sun tattoo on their bicep just rampant everywhere. I mean, 332 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: it permeated the whole place. It drove me that that 333 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: was one of the things that really drove me because 334 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: I've never been that kind of guy. I've always been 335 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: a a more of a a de escalation person and 336 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: a book reader. And then I think it helps explain 337 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: a lot why you see some of these videos where 338 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: it's just like, why did they go to zero to 339 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: tend from zero to tend so fast? Well, because somebody's 340 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: gonna make fun of them and call them names if 341 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: they don't go hard enough, fast enough on somebody when 342 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: they do certain things like and yeah, the zero to 343 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: a hundred thing also ties into that whole, that whole 344 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: hyper vigilance thing, that always being um a compressed spring. 345 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 1: And then it ties back into that warrior mindset of 346 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: like they tell you flat out like if anyone ever 347 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: attacks you, they're trying to kill you. It's it's there's 348 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: there's no ifans or, but you need to act like 349 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: they're trying to kill you, because it goes back to 350 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: the whole I'm going home at the end of the 351 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: shift kind of thing. And once once that's ingrained itself 352 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: into like your muscle memory, and that becomes the reflex 353 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: that becomes the thought that passes in front of your 354 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: mind when a critic incident happens. Then that's how you're 355 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: gonna act, and you're gonna do, and you're gonna go 356 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: from zero to a hundred because you're going to assume 357 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: that any little furtive movement movement which god, there's that language, 358 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: furtive movement, um, any little movement that someone makes, like 359 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: that's that's a green light. That's an excuse that I 360 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: can end whatever interaction I'm having with this person with 361 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: violence because they flinched enough where I think, Okay, I 362 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: got this. Yeah Jesus. Now one of the next ones 363 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: you have here is talking about recruitment, which obviously coult STU, 364 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: but also like it's a job and jobs do this 365 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: constantly recruiting. I'm kind of wondering because you've you've listed 366 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: here things like Explorer programs which are like r OTC 367 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: or the Boy Scouts kind of these different one of 368 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: which Kyle Rittenhouse did like ways in which kind of 369 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: people get onboarded. I'm wondering sort of what how you 370 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: see how you see police recruitment as a kind of 371 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: different in a fundamentally cult your way. Then you know, 372 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: every job has to bring in new people, right like, yeah, uh, 373 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: it's it's it didn't used to be this way. But 374 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: I think in the in the two thousands, especially when numbers, 375 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: staffing numbers really started to drop because it's I don't 376 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: know if they've just realized it wasn't worth it or 377 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: they found somewhere better to get paid. But employment has 378 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: gone down for law enforcement, and so recruitment goes up 379 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: in response. But now they have a more active role 380 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: in most places where it's almost on part with the military. 381 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: They'll go to job fairs, they go to high school 382 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: career days. Um, they didn't used to do that stuff. 383 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: And when they do, they'll they'll find someone to like 384 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: pull stuff out of the pulp culture zeitgeist. What we know? 385 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: What cool? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. What can we what can 386 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: we cash in on to try and draw these kids in, 387 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: because just like the military, cops are looking to pull 388 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: in disenfranchised kids who probably aren't going to go to college, 389 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: don't think it's an option, And here's this job. All 390 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: you need is a high school diploma, here's the health insurance. 391 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: Here's the tyrant package, which is trash. But you're seventeen, 392 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: you don't know that, you don't know how to read 393 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: all this, but it looks real goal yeah yeah, um yeah, yeah, 394 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: they explore stuff. I mean you're familiar with that. So 395 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: but yeah, they get little kids to go out and 396 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, the little baby cops and it's I mean, 397 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: it's it's one of those things, like some of this 398 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: is so much deeper than even the the individual departments 399 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: or any choice made by the police, because like, as 400 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: a kid, some of the first toys I had were 401 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: cop toys, right, like everything every boy, I think, like, yes, 402 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: some of the first what you're gonna get badge a gun, 403 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna play detective, You're gonna be watching cops shows, 404 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: You're gonna be watching movies where cops are the and 405 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: that's I mean that that's a bigger subject than today. 406 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: But like, yeah, no, that is like the one of 407 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: the most prevalent forms of media that's instilled in young 408 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: uh boys. I guess yeah. You know what else is 409 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: instilled in young boys the love of capitalism and products 410 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: and specifically and services find a child and whisper the 411 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: names of our sponsor into their ears, preferably a child 412 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: that's yours hopefully know any child, any child throw something 413 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: so their parents look away and then leaned down and 414 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: whisper better. Hell, you know, only counts if you get caught. 415 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: We're back. Um. And your next point was the group 416 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: is preoccupied with making money, which is a huge thing 417 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: for cults. Um, not all of them. There are some, 418 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: like you know, there there are some cults that were 419 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: shall we say pure, um, but they're nearly all about 420 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: getting like hey man Manson just it was all about 421 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: the music, and the Heaven's Gate was a pure cult. Yeah, yeah, 422 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: Heaven's Gate. It certainly wasn't just the money for Heaven's 423 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: But yes, cops, cops have civil ascid forfeiture which they 424 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: just took a hundred thousand dollars from someone in Dallas 425 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: and the person did not get charged with anything, um, 426 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: which is usually the case. Yeah. But um, but I 427 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: mean yeah, like you have written here that like the 428 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: main the main way is just increasing their budget as 429 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: much as possible, which you have. Most police departments right 430 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: now have the biggest budget they've ever had. Um. Specifically 431 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: in like main cities we have, they're they're the most 432 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: funded department. Um in in for the whole city. There's 433 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: there's this there's this great gag in the opening episode 434 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: of a show called Ugly Americans that's about trying to 435 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: rere financialize the city's budget. And they have like a 436 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: social spending and a cop budget, and they take like 437 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: all of social spending and move it over and leave 438 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: this one tiny sliver and they're like, oh, there, that's better. 439 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: That will solve all the problems. Um it's it is 440 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: a better sketch than what I explaining. It just like 441 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: this sounds not funny, but the scotch is actually pretty good. 442 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: Not far off, but yes, and and it is and 443 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: it is relatively accurate in terms of just moving all 444 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: the funding from social programs over into law enforcement. Yeah. 445 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: So there's uh, you know, there's everyone gets their financial 446 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: different ways. There's county, there's stayed, there's there's city. But 447 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: a common thing that would happen was, uh, law enforcement 448 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: agencies would try to take anything that they could under 449 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: the umbrella of law enforcement. So if it was like, hey, 450 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: we want to have more you know, security equipment at 451 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: the high school, and then the cops will be like, 452 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: no, no no, no, no, no, give us that money. We'll 453 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: give you another another officer on campus. Or they want 454 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: to hire something for the part, you know, and we 455 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: want to install lights the city park to increase security. 456 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: No no no, no, no, no no. You just give us 457 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: that money. We'll make sure our guys patrol it more. 458 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So they actively try to just like coach 459 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: money from everybody else. Yeah. I mean, and you you 460 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: can see this in a lot of towns where like 461 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: the number one use of public funds is the police. 462 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's all over the country at this point. Um, yeah, 463 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Uh. So members are expected to devote 464 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: inordinate amounts of time to the group and group related activities. 465 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: Um yeah, because you have written here four years with 466 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: no days off, but scored a satisfactor, I was told 467 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: to put in more time outside of work. Yeah. So, 468 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: like I said, our emails were always sounds so much 469 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: like MLM shit. It is it is they they every 470 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: time you go in for an email, they neg you 471 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: like no matter what are Our scoring system was one 472 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: to ten. Um, nobody ever got higher than a six. Maybe. 473 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: I think I saw like one or two sevens in 474 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: my entire time there, And when I became a supervisor, 475 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: I asked the brass I'm like, hey, I want to 476 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: give this guy this this upper grade of like an 477 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: eight or nine. And he told me flatt because no, 478 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: we don't do that, Like, no one's allowed to get 479 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: higher this seven. And if you want a seven, you're 480 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: gonna have to like write a novel about how great 481 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: this person is to get them this rating. Um, it 482 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: was just yeah, it was. It was consistently just pinning 483 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: you down. The four years no dated off. So yeah, 484 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: I did, uh four years straight without calling it sick once, 485 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: like I took vacations. But um, when I went in 486 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: from I evail and he slides me a thing that 487 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: says it says attendance satisfactory, And I was like, what 488 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: are you talking about. I was like, I haven't taken 489 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: a day a sick day in four years. You know, 490 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: I have three kids. How do you think I managed that? 491 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: Like I've sacrificed to be here that much. And his 492 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: response was well like yeah, but I never see you 493 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: at barbecues, I never see you at the union meetings. 494 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,959 Speaker 1: I never see you at the fundraisers for the sheriff's reelection. 495 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: Even though it's blatantly against policy and illegal to do. 496 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: And I told him that. In his response was were 497 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: you gonna do telling me who you're gonna tell Jesus? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, 498 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: I mean who are you going to tell that? Yeah? 499 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: And it is. It's also just like this, It isolates 500 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: you from a or people. It stops you from knowing 501 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: folks that aren't cops. And it's yeah, it's a lot 502 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: like what your up line is gonna tell you if 503 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: you're selling mary kay and that that that that ties 504 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: into the that ties into the next point. UH members 505 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: are encouraged or required to live and or socialize only 506 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: with other group members. Um. And you say this is 507 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: like part of the hyper vigilance is isolation cycle. But 508 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: I also see this in terms of like something I 509 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: get into for fun is I join like a wife 510 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: of cops um Facebook groups just because it's fast just 511 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: to have all of just to have all of these 512 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: like cops spouses in a Facebook group, And it's super Yeah, 513 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: Like it's it's a really interesting like culture of like 514 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: just associating with other people on the job. You know, 515 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: there's like cop barbecues like you mentioned, and all this 516 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: kind of stuff where it's like we're the only ones 517 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: that can understand you. So we're gonna build like this, 518 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: like you know, force field around all of us and 519 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: we can be together as a family and keep out 520 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: everyone else because we're the ones that really know what's up. 521 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: Um yeah, it seems uh. I mean for some people 522 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,959 Speaker 1: who are really into it, I guess that is, you know, 523 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: that's how humans socialize in some ways. So you know, 524 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: for people who think being cops that are good and 525 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,959 Speaker 1: then quote unquote enjoy it, I'm sure they have a 526 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: decent time hanging out with their cop buddies, right, Um, 527 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: And I'm sure the cops spouse Facebook groups. I'm sure 528 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: they have a good time laughing about whatever viral video 529 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: there is of someone using too much force you know who, 530 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: who knows what? Like how how they actually think about 531 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: those types of very isolated environments, because you know, it's 532 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: it's about fend find you know, it's it's almost like 533 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,959 Speaker 1: it's it's extending out into like fandom rules where you're 534 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: associating with other people the same way fandoms work, which 535 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: is very just very similar to how cults work. Um. 536 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, it's an armed militant fandom and your 537 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: last point here, the most loyal members, the true believers field, 538 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: there could be no life outside the context of the group. 539 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: They believe there is no other way to be an 540 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave 541 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: or even consider leaving the group. Yeah, so I put 542 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: in the note of just self expectatory. But yeah, it's me. 543 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:25,719 Speaker 1: Quitting was weird. I knew I needed to do it, 544 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: but I I had a massive existential crisis of identity 545 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: and of of logistical things, but a lot of it 546 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,479 Speaker 1: was it was tied to my identity, and it was 547 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: it was letting go of something that was like a 548 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: core pillar of my personality, and it really freaked me out. 549 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: And I think that if I was more inside the group, 550 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: and I was more like one of the guys, a 551 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: golden boy or something like, I probably would have never left. 552 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: If I was, if I was getting that constant reinforcement 553 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: of the good boy feelings, I don't think I would 554 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: have quit. Um. But after I did quit, that actually 555 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: kicked off a cascade of people around my same age 556 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: and within my same seniority level in looking at their 557 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: job and looking at what it was doing to them 558 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: psychologically and physically and with their families and thinking to themselves, Oh, 559 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: I can leave that. That is how cult How that 560 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: is how leaving cults work. Yeah. Yeah. And so once 561 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: I left, a bunch of other guys were like, Oh, 562 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: I don't have to do this until I'm fifty five. 563 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: I can I can go start another career somewhere else, 564 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: I can go start another retirement plan at a different place. 565 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: And I just it felt great to see other people 566 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: tear away and do that. But at the same time, 567 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: I know for some of that it hurt mhm really 568 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: bad to to leave that behind because once you're once 569 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: you are out. Um, you are kind of out. Even 570 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: if you leave amicably like hey, I just want to 571 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: go do something else with my life, you're no longer 572 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: in those people's minds anymore because you're not part of 573 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: the team, you're not in the club, you're not in 574 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: the family anymore. You're that guy that used to be here. 575 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: And I guess kind of at the conclusion of this 576 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: and this is you know, when you when the question 577 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: is like, how do you de radicalize, get people out 578 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: of colts? How do you like No one has a 579 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: good answer to that. So I don't think we should 580 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: expect you to suddenly have like here's how to here's 581 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: how to convince everybody to stop doing this because we 582 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: can't do that for fucking Q and on, like de 583 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: radicalization of the people who say they're involved in it 584 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: are fucking drifting like it's it's it's a big mess 585 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: of a of a fucking field in the first place. 586 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: But I am wondering, do you have some insights in 587 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: the like, yeah, how then do we de radicalize these people? Uh? 588 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: Like I don't think there is Like I don't think 589 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: there is a cookie cutter answer for like pulling people out. Um, 590 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, we can't bag them in a white vand 591 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: and take them to a hotel. Uh. The only thing 592 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: I can think of it would actually change the culture 593 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: is a huge shift in our national culture around like 594 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: mental health and toxic masculinity and you know, wrapping your 595 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: identity into into your job because it's not just cops 596 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: that it's it's it's it's like that is that is 597 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: America now? That is that is like hustle culture. That 598 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: is what the idea of a career is. My name 599 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: is blank and I am a blank. Like that career. 600 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: Career comes from the word that means like careening, Like 601 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,959 Speaker 1: you are going full force into this thing. That is 602 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: that is what you are doing now. That is your existence, 603 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: is your career. You're going at it um. That is, 604 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: that is what this whole country is built on. Uh 605 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: So getting out of that for a lot of people, 606 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: for just regular jobs, it is difficult. Now adding on 607 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: the idea that you are the thing that holds society together, 608 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: that is that that has a whole other level of 609 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: complexity like psych logically for the person inside it um 610 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: because I'm sure like telemarketers, if you can get really 611 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 1: into it and make money, sure that can be a career. 612 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: But you know, you're not holding society together, and like 613 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 1: that's not that's not that's not a delusion that you have. 614 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: And nobody outside there's there's there's there's no thin telemarketing 615 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: line of supporting you. So it is it is different 616 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: for like police specifically, even more so than like firefighters 617 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: or like E. M. T. S Um. This particular fandom 618 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: that's developed around police and and and like the the 619 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: incredible self importance that they is that is cultivated um 620 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: to Yeah, like the idea of I'm doing this to 621 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: maintain reality is like a very like big thing to 622 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:57,439 Speaker 1: tell yourself and get getting out of that seems uh challenging. Yeah, 623 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: it really is. It's like it's almost it's almost worst 624 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: than most like churches in a sense because in this 625 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: version it's it's still materialized. It's it's yeah, it's it's 626 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: it's right in front of you. I can reach out 627 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: and touch it because I'm part of society. But if 628 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: I'm not here and we're not here, you know, anarchy 629 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: the bad guy the way people think the word means 630 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, everything's gonna catch fire, and the only reason 631 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: people are good to each other is because the law 632 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: makes them be that way and all that kind of 633 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: toxic bs. So the only thing I can think of 634 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: to be like to help de radicalize people is it's 635 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: almost like treating someone in your family that listens to 636 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: too much Q and on is to you know, if 637 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: you know a cop or you have a friend that 638 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 1: used to be a cop, and he ever like reaches 639 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: out to you, maybe with like kid gloves, kind of 640 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: be like, hey, how you doing just small things because 641 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: that could maybe lead to him putting them putting something 642 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: on their shelf, just like when people get out of 643 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: religions and things, they'll often reach out to people and 644 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: be like, hey, this is this is such a fucking 645 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: it kind of means something if he's going outside of 646 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: the group, and so yeah, maybe recognize that, Like you 647 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: have an opportunity. Yeah, if if a cop reaches out 648 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: to you, it's just like someone in a religious institution. 649 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: They're reaching out to you because they feel safe talking 650 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: to you, because you're not going to turn them in. 651 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: You're it's not gonna have any uh immediate impact on 652 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: their life right now. Yeah that makes sense. Um, all right, well, Alexander, 653 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: anything else you wanted to get into. I mean I 654 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: could talk about this kind of stuff for days and 655 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: days and hours and hours, the whole hyper vigilance cycle, 656 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: And like I said, I've read a bunch of books 657 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: on it. I really tried to get training on just 658 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,399 Speaker 1: the hyper vigilance cycle. Like, well, if you ask most 659 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: cops about hyper vigilance, they would just look at you 660 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: and be like, I don't even know what that means 661 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: what you're talking about, which is why I used to 662 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: I used to give this book, the Emotional Survival Bound 663 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: for law Enforcement. I would I gave it to new hires, 664 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: and some of those new hires didn't come back, and 665 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: I'm fine with that. Yeah that's good. Yeah. Some of 666 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: them look at it and we're like, no, I'm not 667 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: signing up for this because you you really don't know 668 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,839 Speaker 1: what you're signing up for the real stuff that you're 669 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: signing up for until you're in it. Yeah yeah, I 670 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: mean also like a cult um Yeah yeah, well all right, 671 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: Uh Alexander, thank you so much for coming on and 672 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: for sharing this with us. I think it's a useful 673 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: look behind the curtain um that that folks need um. 674 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: And this has been it could happen here. You can 675 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: find Garrison on the internet. Go go go track down 676 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 1: Garrison's fake Facebook account. You know what goes do that 677 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: you can't? You can? I I have I have made 678 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: up possible specifically for this reason, a cop wife group 679 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: with Harrison should be and Vanessa so we could discuss 680 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: our husband's careers. Hey, for all you know, you may 681 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: cause the de radicalization of a cop. Yeah, or Garrison 682 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: just gets really weirdly into role playing as the wife 683 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: of Like EOD episode is over, we are done, this 684 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: is I am pulling the plug. What could Happen Here 685 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: is a production of cool zone Media. Well more podcasts 686 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone media 687 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the I Heart 688 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 689 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could happen here, updated 690 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks 691 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: for listening.