WEBVTT - Featuring Ben Barnes 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:05.200 Hi guys, and welcome back to this week's episode of 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.840 the Lesbi Real Podcast. I'm Sammy J. Today I got 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:12.000 to chat with Ben Barnes. He's an incredible actor. You 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.720 may have seen him in The West World, Shadow and Bone, 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:19.079 Chronicles of Narnia, and much more. Ben. Actually, you just 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:21.520 came out with an EP called Songs for You, and 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.600 I genuinely love this EP. It brings me happiness when 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.800 I listened to it. It is so soulful. Ben. If 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:29.960 you're listening, thank you so much for coming on my podcast. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:32.519 I really enjoyed this conversation, and I know all of 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:38.680 you will too. I hope you guys enjoy Ben. Welcome 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.760 to my podcast. I'm so excited we take it this out. 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.520 Thank you for having me, Sammy. I have to say 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:51.199 your EP, Songs for You, I'm obsessed. And I'm not 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:55.440 just saying that because here's the thing. When a lot 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.680 of people go into music, they generally do the basic 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:04.559 pop standard, nothing really original with it. But I got 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.920 some Michael Boublet vibes, I got a little bit of 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.080 Queen in there, and it's just it feeds my soul. 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.080 That is the best review I will ever get it 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.759 feeds my soul. That's what I was going for. Well, 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.880 you nailed it. That's what music does for me. Though. 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.480 I think growing up particularly like Queen is like the 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:28.080 sound of me being ten and twelve and fifteen and forty. 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.000 But also like all those like those like Ray, Charles 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.840 and James all that, all that kind of mood music 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:42.319 is like everything that I aspire to be and feel. 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.880 And I love all that wrap pack stuff as well, 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.000 Christmas music, all that, all of that stuff that's like 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.600 nourishes your soul, like you say, And so I was 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.120 just trying to I didn't quite know what my music 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.000 would exactly sound like. I didn't have an exact thing 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.720 in my head, but I knew I wanted to like 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.960 sprinkle a little bit of all of their gold dust 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.240 into my cauldron and see what was spat out the 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.200 other side. Yeah, well let's get into that. You almost 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.520 put up music like twenty years ago, and now you're 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.760 coming back around to it. Why didn't you then? And 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.200 what makes you go back to it now? Um? So, 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.200 I think it's a few things. When I was nineteen, 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.360 I signed to a music manager and I was singing 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.480 some jazz stuff and it didn't kind of pan out 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:29.880 the way that I hoped it would. It was the 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.080 very first year that any of those like Pop Idol 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:36.480 American Idol shows came out, and that just took over, 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.080 and that was the only music thing anyone was interested in, 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.280 and my dreams kind of slipped through my fingers like 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.119 sand and and I kind of got a bit disillusion 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:47.800 with it and thought, maybe this isn't what I'm supposed 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.120 to be doing. But I wasn't really writing my own stuff. 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:56.000 I was doing impressions of Sinatra that can Coal or 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.360 or Stevie Wonder or I would do tribute concerts and 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.359 soul nights and all those things when I was in 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.639 high school and stuff. But it was never like me, me, me, me, 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.840 And I didn't know like what I wanted to sound 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.919 like or what I really wanted to say. And and 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.480 I think after being kind of disillusioned like that, the 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.160 thought of writing my own songs and putting them out 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.280 just I got a little bit um. I think I 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.680 was just a little bit fearful of what the judgment 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:27.560 of that would be, not having complete confidence myself what 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:29.560 that would sound like. And if I did know what 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.440 it sounds like, sounded like what what would I want 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.360 to say? And I think it just takes some of 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.520 us sometimes a little bit longer to make good on 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.400 our deals with ourselves that think the promises we make 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.920 ourselves that will prioritize this or do this in our lives. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.360 And I think during the pandemic, I spent a lot 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.760 of time talking in my head to like the eight 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.520 year old version of myself saying I didn't who didn't 0:03:55.640 --> 0:04:00.520 like totally we all had these crises of identity. But 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.560 I was speaking to grand Pappy Barnes saying, like what 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:09.360 do I what do I? You know you're you're going 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.680 to regret not doing this in your life. There's no thing, 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.920 there's nothing to be afraid of, Like, there's nothing like 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:19.240 anyone who would judge it negatively. I'm not particularly interested 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.159 in those people in life. And it might put a 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.280 smile on someone's face. And honestly, two days after I 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.120 put out my first song, there was this There was 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.880 this video this I think it was a TikTok of 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.400 this girl dancing in her kitchen, smiling, spinning around listening 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.000 to my song, and I was like, this video alone 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.920 is worth making the album for. This is like I'm 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.440 so happy to watching this right now, and then people 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:45.880 were doing like pole dancing and like ice skating routines 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:50.240 to it, and like it's like talk about feed your soul, Like, yeah, 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:52.640 that did it for me. It's like you miss all 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.160 the shots you don't take. And I think putting yourself 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.480 out there can be really scary and vulnerable, especially as 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.080 an actor when people see you your different characters, you 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.800 haven't put yourself out there, and putting out your music 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.040 is putting yourself out there without any mask. What has 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.520 that been like stepping into yourself in this new time 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.320 of your life. Yeah, it's it's it's that's very astute. 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.120 And that's exactly you know. I feel like I've been 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.559 nudging myself towards this for the twenty years of my career, 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.400 where I look at a character and I try and 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.360 syringe pieces of myself into it, and I try and 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.080 make make those characters, even if they're like psycho killers 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.000 or like, you know, as far from me as you 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.840 could possibly get. I tried to find a little piece 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:41.159 of myself that I can just butter that toast with, 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.600 just to just to make it feel honest and grounded 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:49.720 and truthful. Um, but but I think it just it 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:54.120 just became time for me to offer something into the 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:58.320 world that was more innately and purely and authentically just 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:03.120 from me, um and about me, and and that's what 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.680 this and that's what this songs for you EP became. 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.320 And that's what's so beautiful. I feel like everyone came 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.440 to their own realization during the pandemic, whether that was 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.960 finding a new passion or coming across the passion that 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.279 they forgot they had. Was there a specific moment you're like, Okay, 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.040 I have to do music, or was it like a 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.480 continuing thing where you just kind of happened. I think 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.440 it's always been a continuing thing. Like I've always had 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:27.880 like notebooks that I've written, like little phrases people say, 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.120 or little things that rhyme in my head or something 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.320 I've read somewhere, and I'll often like type that on 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.880 my phone and then put it in a notebook. And um, 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.840 you know, I spent hours sitting at my little at 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.800 my piano there and kind of not that I really 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.000 know anything about music, but I'll just move my fingers 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.400 around until it sounds scrunchy to me, and it sounds 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.279 like a feeling that I've had, so it was a 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.960 little bit painstaking from that perspective, but um, yeah, it was. 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.440 As I say, it's it's always been something that I 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.960 wanted to do, but the pandemic really really sped up 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.400 and rushed through that feeling of if if not now, 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:06.840 when like, you don't want to regret not don't want 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.720 to regret not doing this, and so it just became 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.360 very clear to me and that was very freeing that 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.000 that really like released me. Like when you put out music, 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.360 it's called a release, and it feels like I've dropped something, 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.840 I've let go of this like expectation of myself to 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.840 do this, and you know, and the really beautiful thing 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:26.320 is no one can ever take it away from me, 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.600 like I am forever now a songwriter and a singer 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.160 and a musician. You have that title now. And I 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.680 think one of the great things about just like I 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.080 know that feeling, like for me, that's releasing the podcast. 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.800 When we're planning a season and it's releasing it, I'm like, 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.080 oh my god, Okay, it's out in the world. People 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.200 can interpret it in any way that you want, but 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.600 you did your job and that's all you can do. 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.880 And if you're happy with it. That's what matters. You 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:55.280 made this and no one can unmake it. Exactly exactly 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.960 where did your passion for music start? My passion enthusic 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.440 I think my dad probably he was playing. He would 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:05.400 play like all these seventies rock bands like the Stones 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.600 and the Beatles and the Who and the Eagles and 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.880 Queen and just all these brilliant bands. Would you know, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:12.680 when he was at home, he would be he would 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.800 be blasting those um. And so I think that's probably 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.600 where it started. And then I would like root around 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:19.680 in the back of his vinyls and find the and 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.720 find the raychels, and I'd find that, you know, the 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.760 rat pack stuff and like all of that stuff that 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.840 he had but didn't play as often. Um. And then 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.120 when I was just when I was in school, I 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:34.640 would play the drums in like big bands. My first 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.600 ever job, when I was fifteen, I played the drums 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:43.160 in a West End London production of Bugsy Malone. That's awesome. Um. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.520 And I've never honestly, I've done a lot of things 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.079 in my life that other people might think we're exciting, 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.400 but I've never felt cooler than when I would, like 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.200 in the middle of a class on like a Wednesday, 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.520 because we'd have a matinee at like eleven o'clock in 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:01.680 the morning. I stand up and be like, sorry, yeah, 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.480 I've got to go. I've got a job being a 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.920 drummer in the in the West end of you to 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.200 go be a musician right now, in the middle of 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.560 a class, to stand up and grab your drumsticks and 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:17.679 be like, peace out. I have never felt cooler than that. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.400 because I wasn't cool and I didn't feel seen and 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.320 I didn't feel like like I felt totally invisible, I 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.400 think when I was at school and so so I 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.960 think like, just to have that moment of saying this 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:30.720 is something that I do that you don't know about, 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.319 I felt really good. I totally agree high school was 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.120 not it for me. I am very glad to be 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.480 out of it. If you're in high school and you're listening, no, 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.679 it is temporary. It gets better. It gets so much better. 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:45.800 And I heard people say that to me, but I 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:48.360 didn't believe it, but I wish I did, because I 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.040 still don't understand those people who say, oh, yeah, school 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:52.959 was the best best days of my life. And I 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.600 can understand maybe if you were like the high school 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.079 quarterback and like you were the king of everything. I 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.120 can understand in high school though, like who wants to 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.400 peak and eyes? Well I don't, but I can understand 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.520 those people saying that was there there, you know they 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.959 remember it's really fondly or whatever. But but no, you're right, No, 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.120 I'm playing a long game here. I will say that 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.560 high school musical did me dirty because I thought going 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.959 into high school I would be like all these cute 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.520 boys and then no, it's like all these pre pubous 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.960 and eighth graders like all joining what you think. But 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.600 that's because when when you watch films when you're fifteen, 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:34.800 that those those actors are twenty five. Okay, why don't 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.920 people cast like the actual eight I don't know, but 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:42.040 I looked so young when I was seventeen, I looked 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.720 about fourteen, and so I could never have played the age. 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:47.760 And then when I was twenty five, I got cast 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.720 in this pilot on the c W called Split Decision, 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:53.719 which never made it to air. But it was kind 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:57.239 of like that movie Sliding Doors, like it's saw um 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.720 it saw like a girl's first day of high school 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.400 too different ways, and like depending on whether she sat 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.199 with the cool kids or like the nerds like it 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.200 would see how her life went. And I was I 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.960 was the jock, the quarterback. My name was Chris Kinkaid, 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.600 and I had like a like a letter's jacket. But 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:20.480 I was like twenty two or something out twenty three, 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.680 something like that. I can't quite remember, but I was 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.920 definitely thinking, Ah, now I'm cool enough to be seventeen. Yeah, 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.800 it's you know, you've said it so perfectly. That's the 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.280 thing about movies and TV shows. It just gives you 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:37.439 a false sense of what life is like in some ways. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.640 But you know, I will say something that I think 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.400 is super interesting is you've played a lot of villains. Um, 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.000 you don't seem like a very Yeah, you don't seem 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:49.240 like a very villainous person. You seem very nice. You 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.920 do look scary in her. But the thing is, I 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.160 think what's so interesting is in your more recent projects, 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.240 it's often in a very dystopian world. You know, it's 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.199 in a different universe and it's an escape. And music 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.760 does the same thing. So I'm curious what draws you 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:08.440 to kind of that escape bism to put your worries away, 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:12.240 whether that's in acting, or in music. So so I 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.040 think there's two things. One one is that I do 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.680 love that escapeist stuff and I'm just a big fan 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.079 of like fantasy stuff and it's just storytelling. I love 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.520 to escape into series and stuff. I am an unabashed 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:29.560 like binger of TV and movies. What's your best binge? 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:34.520 I mean everything, test me, I will. I mean, like 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.640 I just finished a good game, I haven't seen it yet. Well, 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.880 then I win because in the first, the first one 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:42.800 we've mentioned. Can I tell you why I think I 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.679 win this one? Because I watched Breaking Bad in nine days. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:51.920 Oh oh, I see what you mean by your best binge? Um, 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.520 six seasons over forty five minutes. It was my big 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:57.120 It was like the beginning of the pandemic. I was like, 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:58.839 I'm gonna do it. That is that is that is 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:05.360 actually that is actually credible. Um. Yeah, I'm impressed. I'm 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.440 trying to think what my best bringers are. I'm sure 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:12.200 I did some seasons of Um, what have I done 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.040 really quickly? I'm sure back in the day, I did 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.800 some seasons of twenty four or something like that very fast. 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:18.400 I'm sure. I'm sure I probably tried to do it 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:22.640 in twenty four hours and failed epically. But yeah, I've 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.440 definitely had a few of those. But I think so 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.720 I love all the escapism, but the main draw I 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.600 think of those things and the reason that I've sort 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.760 of been um I think anyway, I kind of found 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.160 myself this little niche of like villains but not really 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:45.120 villains like humans. Yeah you've answered my God, damn you, 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.439 damn samny j you you've answered my my answer before 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:51.920 I've done it. But yeah, I like my my quest 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.520 in life, whether it's songwriting or just like the way 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.200 I have friendships and the way I connect with people 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.880 is always about like trying to eat all the sides 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.200 of it and you know, just empathy and human and 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.240 and so when I see these characters, I'm like, Okay, 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.760 so on West World, my character, this guy's a douche bag. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.600 But why And then you find out in the second 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.280 season that actually he's had this very strange relationship with 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.640 his dad and doesn't feel like he's loved and is 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:21.840 acting out like a baby, you know, and we all 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.120 have this like Russian doll of ourselves, Like I think, 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.640 like the teenager, the strappy teenager that we were, and 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.560 the love that Russian dollar of yourselves. It's so right 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.880 like that, I see what you're saying though this you know, 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.560 the hangry baby and the strappy teenager, and then the 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.120 like adventurous twenty year old and the like you know, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.640 trying to be more majorre than you are thirty year old, 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.400 and then this slightly more together for your like, we 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.200 we gather these things together and they never go away. 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.320 And then when we're tired or or stressed or whatever, 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.640 like these these things like like they they kind of 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:58.680 come out on us. And I just think all people 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.360 have the power to be every thing and the capacity 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.880 to feel everything. And so when I get these villainous 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.960 kind of characters, I'm interested in telling those stories about hope. 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.240 And if I'm the obstacle, that's that's that's how I 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.960 fit into the story. But I want to find those 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:18.160 little ways that I can humanize. And you know, if 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:22.000 if the character is scary, where is where is he vulnerable? 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.760 And if the character is cold, what what can make 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:30.480 him feel warm? Um? You know, if the character is 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.760 is tense, where do we see those little moments of 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:34.920 him relax? You know, I think I think I'm always 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:36.680 trying to look at things from two sides, and I 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.640 think that's what I'm trying to do with my music 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.560 as well. It's very interesting. I'm in film school, by 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.400 the way, are you amazing? Yes, So I'm learning about 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.440 just directing camera and goes and all the stuff, and 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.360 I find it so fascinating the ways you can tell 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.920 a story and how you can do that without even words. 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.400 You can just do that through cinematography totally. What would 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:03.280 you say your most impactful moment you've had on set? 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:08.080 I think there's there are so many. Um. I think 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.040 it's always actually useful to think about the moments in 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.720 which you feel like you failed a bit, because then 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.560 you can look back and see how much you've grown. 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.080 And I think I think I remember being quite overwhelmed 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.720 on the first Narnia movie and looking at these incredible 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.600 sets and costumes and you know, stunt departments and you know, 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.040 hundreds of extras on horses, and it's just this overwhelmingly 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:31.120 wonderful life event for me. But I remember there was 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.800 a scene where I was supposed to be kind of 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:39.040 melancholy and the director sort of said, oh, what's your 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.640 sort of process to get into this? And I don't 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.840 know if I even really had one at that point, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.680 like I didn't know enough about what I was doing, 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.720 and I felt a little bit ashamed that I couldn't 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.280 sort of I wasn't giving them him what he wanted. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.400 And I think now, you know, fifteen years, twenty years 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.840 later or whatever, like I I've sort of pride myself 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:05.119 on being able to put myself into any situation and 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.800 feel any human emotion and convey that. Um, but it's 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.679 something that I've worked on really, really hard over a 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.080 long period of time. So I think, um, you know, 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.840 just being being challenged, I think is probably the key 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.080 moments where and and actually the kind of direction that 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.080 I love from a director is once they've sort of 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.679 once you've sort of gone a trust, if they'd just 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:31.160 come up to you and sort of say I don't 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.800 believe you. You know, it's just a very simple piece 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.840 of challenging direction because then you're like, Okay, in this take, 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:39.879 I must tell the truth, or in this take, I 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.239 must really listen to what they're saying, or something very 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.600 specific like that. I think if you take one thing 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.080 into the way that you're doing something, often like everything 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.639 else then just slots into place. Okay, we have to 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.840 take a quick break, but when we come back, I 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.320 want to talk more about acting, specifically the auditioning process, 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:07.639 your new EP, and much more will be right back. Yeah, 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.080 something that is very interesting they want to bring up 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:11.879 with you is I have a lot of friends that 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.520 are actors, and something that I've realized is the job 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:17.960 is auditioning, Like that is the full time job. And 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.520 then when you get cast, that's great, But the full 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.879 time job is auditioning and oftentimes rejection um and that 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.880 can be really hard, especially when it's constant, and if 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.480 you're in an industry when they're like thousands of you. Essentially, 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.200 how have you dealt with that throughout your career and 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.200 what advice do you have for people who are listening 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.080 that want to get into acting or are but they're 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.640 coming back with just rejections after audition and audition. I mean, 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.679 I think there's no way around that. You have to 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:45.720 develop a bit of a thick skin with it. And 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.600 it doesn't stop at auditions, you know. I there are 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:50.760 films that I did earlier in my Creator which the 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:55.280 response was so critical and negative and poisonous, and you 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:56.960 have to develop a bit of a thick skin and 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:01.320 remember why you love it, and remember why you keep pushing, 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.960 and remember why you you kind of hang in there. Um. 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:10.919 I think with auditions it's about reframing it to an 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.199 opportunity for you to show them what you would do 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:18.080 with this material. You look at these words, and remember 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.959 that only you'll only really ever get cast in anything 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.240 because you're you, not because of some magic tricks circus 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:27.360 trick that you'll pull off. Yes, maybe if you can 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.000 do a certain skill or do a certain accent, that 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.560 will help. But actually they've got something in mind when 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:35.840 you walk in. But everyone who watches you walk into 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:37.520 the room wants it to be you. They want to 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.880 find the person. So if you come in with all 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.560 of your you, all of your essence, all of like 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.600 what you took from these words and you it's a 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.840 it's an opportunity for you to present what you make 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.359 of of what you've read, basically, and and if you 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:56.480 leave that in there, then then you can never have 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.360 any regret about what you offered them. And if they 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:04.360 did choose it, it's you know, it's it's simply because 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:06.040 they had a different idea of what it was, not 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.600 because of anything you did or didn't do. Um. Trying 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.000 to please other people is never going to be the 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:13.920 way forward. It's going to be the thing that it's 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:15.840 going to be. Do it the way that you want 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.680 to do it. And if you keep doing that, eventually 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.840 someone that you know, someone will respond to that. It's 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.359 about you know, so it's about sort of authenticity. I 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.639 think something people people respond to something that feels honest. 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:30.800 But you know, there's no way around it. It's it's 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.640 an industry that you have to do, develop a little 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.800 bit of a thick skin and sort of somebody once 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.760 told me, you walk walk into the room, no, you know, 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.240 believing that that job is yours, and walk out of 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.760 the room knowing that it's not. And then it will 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.640 always be this like incredible surprise if you do get 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:51.960 the job, but you won't ever be like gutted to 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.040 your core. But having said that, there are always those 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.359 few jobs that you've auditioned for which you're just like, 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.520 how did I not get that job? Is there a 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:03.240 movie that you wish you were in? And if so, 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.800 what character what do you have played? It could be 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:10.520 a classic, it could be a more recent one. Oh 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.440 my god, there are some, I mean, I'm sure there 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.560 are I'm sure there are so many. Um, I will 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:17.199