Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to this week's episode of
Speaker 1: the Lesbi Real Podcast. I'm Sammy J. Today I got
Speaker 1: to chat with Ben Barnes. He's an incredible actor. You
Speaker 1: may have seen him in The West World, Shadow and Bone,
Speaker 1: Chronicles of Narnia, and much more. Ben. Actually, you just
Speaker 1: came out with an EP called Songs for You, and
Speaker 1: I genuinely love this EP. It brings me happiness when
Speaker 1: I listened to it. It is so soulful. Ben. If
Speaker 1: you're listening, thank you so much for coming on my podcast.
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed this conversation, and I know all of
Speaker 1: you will too. I hope you guys enjoy Ben. Welcome
Speaker 1: to my podcast. I'm so excited we take it this out.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, Sammy. I have to say
Speaker 1: your EP, Songs for You, I'm obsessed. And I'm not
Speaker 1: just saying that because here's the thing. When a lot
Speaker 1: of people go into music, they generally do the basic
Speaker 1: pop standard, nothing really original with it. But I got
Speaker 1: some Michael Boublet vibes, I got a little bit of
Speaker 1: Queen in there, and it's just it feeds my soul.
Speaker 1: That is the best review I will ever get it
Speaker 1: feeds my soul. That's what I was going for. Well,
Speaker 1: you nailed it. That's what music does for me. Though.
Speaker 1: I think growing up particularly like Queen is like the
Speaker 1: sound of me being ten and twelve and fifteen and forty.
Speaker 1: But also like all those like those like Ray, Charles
Speaker 1: and James all that, all that kind of mood music
Speaker 1: is like everything that I aspire to be and feel.
Speaker 1: And I love all that wrap pack stuff as well,
Speaker 1: Christmas music, all that, all of that stuff that's like
Speaker 1: nourishes your soul, like you say, And so I was
Speaker 1: just trying to I didn't quite know what my music
Speaker 1: would exactly sound like. I didn't have an exact thing
Speaker 1: in my head, but I knew I wanted to like
Speaker 1: sprinkle a little bit of all of their gold dust
Speaker 1: into my cauldron and see what was spat out the
Speaker 1: other side. Yeah, well let's get into that. You almost
Speaker 1: put up music like twenty years ago, and now you're
Speaker 1: coming back around to it. Why didn't you then? And
Speaker 1: what makes you go back to it now? Um? So,
Speaker 1: I think it's a few things. When I was nineteen,
Speaker 1: I signed to a music manager and I was singing
Speaker 1: some jazz stuff and it didn't kind of pan out
Speaker 1: the way that I hoped it would. It was the
Speaker 1: very first year that any of those like Pop Idol
Speaker 1: American Idol shows came out, and that just took over,
Speaker 1: and that was the only music thing anyone was interested in,
Speaker 1: and my dreams kind of slipped through my fingers like
Speaker 1: sand and and I kind of got a bit disillusion
Speaker 1: with it and thought, maybe this isn't what I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to be doing. But I wasn't really writing my own stuff.
Speaker 1: I was doing impressions of Sinatra that can Coal or
Speaker 1: or Stevie Wonder or I would do tribute concerts and
Speaker 1: soul nights and all those things when I was in
Speaker 1: high school and stuff. But it was never like me, me, me, me,
Speaker 1: And I didn't know like what I wanted to sound
Speaker 1: like or what I really wanted to say. And and
Speaker 1: I think after being kind of disillusioned like that, the
Speaker 1: thought of writing my own songs and putting them out
Speaker 1: just I got a little bit um. I think I
Speaker 1: was just a little bit fearful of what the judgment
Speaker 1: of that would be, not having complete confidence myself what
Speaker 1: that would sound like. And if I did know what
Speaker 1: it sounds like, sounded like what what would I want
Speaker 1: to say? And I think it just takes some of
Speaker 1: us sometimes a little bit longer to make good on
Speaker 1: our deals with ourselves that think the promises we make
Speaker 1: ourselves that will prioritize this or do this in our lives.
Speaker 1: And I think during the pandemic, I spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time talking in my head to like the eight
Speaker 1: year old version of myself saying I didn't who didn't
Speaker 1: like totally we all had these crises of identity. But
Speaker 1: I was speaking to grand Pappy Barnes saying, like what
Speaker 1: do I what do I? You know you're you're going
Speaker 1: to regret not doing this in your life. There's no thing,
Speaker 1: there's nothing to be afraid of, Like, there's nothing like
Speaker 1: anyone who would judge it negatively. I'm not particularly interested
Speaker 1: in those people in life. And it might put a
Speaker 1: smile on someone's face. And honestly, two days after I
Speaker 1: put out my first song, there was this There was
Speaker 1: this video this I think it was a TikTok of
Speaker 1: this girl dancing in her kitchen, smiling, spinning around listening
Speaker 1: to my song, and I was like, this video alone
Speaker 1: is worth making the album for. This is like I'm
Speaker 1: so happy to watching this right now, and then people
Speaker 1: were doing like pole dancing and like ice skating routines
Speaker 1: to it, and like it's like talk about feed your soul, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that did it for me. It's like you miss all
Speaker 1: the shots you don't take. And I think putting yourself
Speaker 1: out there can be really scary and vulnerable, especially as
Speaker 1: an actor when people see you your different characters, you
Speaker 1: haven't put yourself out there, and putting out your music
Speaker 1: is putting yourself out there without any mask. What has
Speaker 1: that been like stepping into yourself in this new time
Speaker 1: of your life. Yeah, it's it's it's that's very astute.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly you know. I feel like I've been
Speaker 1: nudging myself towards this for the twenty years of my career,
Speaker 1: where I look at a character and I try and
Speaker 1: syringe pieces of myself into it, and I try and
Speaker 1: make make those characters, even if they're like psycho killers
Speaker 1: or like, you know, as far from me as you
Speaker 1: could possibly get. I tried to find a little piece
Speaker 1: of myself that I can just butter that toast with,
Speaker 1: just to just to make it feel honest and grounded
Speaker 1: and truthful. Um, but but I think it just it
Speaker 1: just became time for me to offer something into the
Speaker 1: world that was more innately and purely and authentically just
Speaker 1: from me, um and about me, and and that's what
Speaker 1: this and that's what this songs for you EP became.
Speaker 1: And that's what's so beautiful. I feel like everyone came
Speaker 1: to their own realization during the pandemic, whether that was
Speaker 1: finding a new passion or coming across the passion that
Speaker 1: they forgot they had. Was there a specific moment you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have to do music, or was it like a
Speaker 1: continuing thing where you just kind of happened. I think
Speaker 1: it's always been a continuing thing. Like I've always had
Speaker 1: like notebooks that I've written, like little phrases people say,
Speaker 1: or little things that rhyme in my head or something
Speaker 1: I've read somewhere, and I'll often like type that on
Speaker 1: my phone and then put it in a notebook. And um,
Speaker 1: you know, I spent hours sitting at my little at
Speaker 1: my piano there and kind of not that I really
Speaker 1: know anything about music, but I'll just move my fingers
Speaker 1: around until it sounds scrunchy to me, and it sounds
Speaker 1: like a feeling that I've had, so it was a
Speaker 1: little bit painstaking from that perspective, but um, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: As I say, it's it's always been something that I
Speaker 1: wanted to do, but the pandemic really really sped up
Speaker 1: and rushed through that feeling of if if not now,
Speaker 1: when like, you don't want to regret not don't want
Speaker 1: to regret not doing this, and so it just became
Speaker 1: very clear to me and that was very freeing that
Speaker 1: that really like released me. Like when you put out music,
Speaker 1: it's called a release, and it feels like I've dropped something,
Speaker 1: I've let go of this like expectation of myself to
Speaker 1: do this, and you know, and the really beautiful thing
Speaker 1: is no one can ever take it away from me,
Speaker 1: like I am forever now a songwriter and a singer
Speaker 1: and a musician. You have that title now. And I
Speaker 1: think one of the great things about just like I
Speaker 1: know that feeling, like for me, that's releasing the podcast.
Speaker 1: When we're planning a season and it's releasing it, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Okay, it's out in the world. People
Speaker 1: can interpret it in any way that you want, but
Speaker 1: you did your job and that's all you can do.
Speaker 1: And if you're happy with it. That's what matters. You
Speaker 1: made this and no one can unmake it. Exactly exactly
Speaker 1: where did your passion for music start? My passion enthusic
Speaker 1: I think my dad probably he was playing. He would
Speaker 1: play like all these seventies rock bands like the Stones
Speaker 1: and the Beatles and the Who and the Eagles and
Speaker 1: Queen and just all these brilliant bands. Would you know,
Speaker 1: when he was at home, he would be he would
Speaker 1: be blasting those um. And so I think that's probably
Speaker 1: where it started. And then I would like root around
Speaker 1: in the back of his vinyls and find the and
Speaker 1: find the raychels, and I'd find that, you know, the
Speaker 1: rat pack stuff and like all of that stuff that
Speaker 1: he had but didn't play as often. Um. And then
Speaker 1: when I was just when I was in school, I
Speaker 1: would play the drums in like big bands. My first
Speaker 1: ever job, when I was fifteen, I played the drums
Speaker 1: in a West End London production of Bugsy Malone. That's awesome. Um.
Speaker 1: And I've never honestly, I've done a lot of things
Speaker 1: in my life that other people might think we're exciting,
Speaker 1: but I've never felt cooler than when I would, like
Speaker 1: in the middle of a class on like a Wednesday,
Speaker 1: because we'd have a matinee at like eleven o'clock in
Speaker 1: the morning. I stand up and be like, sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've got to go. I've got a job being a
Speaker 1: drummer in the in the West end of you to
Speaker 1: go be a musician right now, in the middle of
Speaker 1: a class, to stand up and grab your drumsticks and
Speaker 1: be like, peace out. I have never felt cooler than that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I wasn't cool and I didn't feel seen and
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like like I felt totally invisible, I
Speaker 1: think when I was at school and so so I
Speaker 1: think like, just to have that moment of saying this
Speaker 1: is something that I do that you don't know about,
Speaker 1: I felt really good. I totally agree high school was
Speaker 1: not it for me. I am very glad to be
Speaker 1: out of it. If you're in high school and you're listening, no,
Speaker 1: it is temporary. It gets better. It gets so much better.
Speaker 1: And I heard people say that to me, but I
Speaker 1: didn't believe it, but I wish I did, because I
Speaker 1: still don't understand those people who say, oh, yeah, school
Speaker 1: was the best best days of my life. And I
Speaker 1: can understand maybe if you were like the high school
Speaker 1: quarterback and like you were the king of everything. I
Speaker 1: can understand in high school though, like who wants to
Speaker 1: peak and eyes? Well I don't, but I can understand
Speaker 1: those people saying that was there there, you know they
Speaker 1: remember it's really fondly or whatever. But but no, you're right, No,
Speaker 1: I'm playing a long game here. I will say that
Speaker 1: high school musical did me dirty because I thought going
Speaker 1: into high school I would be like all these cute
Speaker 1: boys and then no, it's like all these pre pubous
Speaker 1: and eighth graders like all joining what you think. But
Speaker 1: that's because when when you watch films when you're fifteen,
Speaker 1: that those those actors are twenty five. Okay, why don't
Speaker 1: people cast like the actual eight I don't know, but
Speaker 1: I looked so young when I was seventeen, I looked
Speaker 1: about fourteen, and so I could never have played the age.
Speaker 1: And then when I was twenty five, I got cast
Speaker 1: in this pilot on the c W called Split Decision,
Speaker 1: which never made it to air. But it was kind
Speaker 1: of like that movie Sliding Doors, like it's saw um
Speaker 1: it saw like a girl's first day of high school
Speaker 1: too different ways, and like depending on whether she sat
Speaker 1: with the cool kids or like the nerds like it
Speaker 1: would see how her life went. And I was I
Speaker 1: was the jock, the quarterback. My name was Chris Kinkaid,
Speaker 1: and I had like a like a letter's jacket. But
Speaker 1: I was like twenty two or something out twenty three,
Speaker 1: something like that. I can't quite remember, but I was
Speaker 1: definitely thinking, Ah, now I'm cool enough to be seventeen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's you know, you've said it so perfectly. That's the
Speaker 1: thing about movies and TV shows. It just gives you
Speaker 1: a false sense of what life is like in some ways.
Speaker 1: But you know, I will say something that I think
Speaker 1: is super interesting is you've played a lot of villains. Um,
Speaker 1: you don't seem like a very Yeah, you don't seem
Speaker 1: like a very villainous person. You seem very nice. You
Speaker 1: do look scary in her. But the thing is, I
Speaker 1: think what's so interesting is in your more recent projects,
Speaker 1: it's often in a very dystopian world. You know, it's
Speaker 1: in a different universe and it's an escape. And music
Speaker 1: does the same thing. So I'm curious what draws you
Speaker 1: to kind of that escape bism to put your worries away,
Speaker 1: whether that's in acting, or in music. So so I
Speaker 1: think there's two things. One one is that I do
Speaker 1: love that escapeist stuff and I'm just a big fan
Speaker 1: of like fantasy stuff and it's just storytelling. I love
Speaker 1: to escape into series and stuff. I am an unabashed
Speaker 1: like binger of TV and movies. What's your best binge?
Speaker 1: I mean everything, test me, I will. I mean, like
Speaker 1: I just finished a good game, I haven't seen it yet. Well,
Speaker 1: then I win because in the first, the first one
Speaker 1: we've mentioned. Can I tell you why I think I
Speaker 1: win this one? Because I watched Breaking Bad in nine days.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, I see what you mean by your best binge? Um,
Speaker 1: six seasons over forty five minutes. It was my big
Speaker 1: It was like the beginning of the pandemic. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. That is that is that is
Speaker 1: actually that is actually credible. Um. Yeah, I'm impressed. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think what my best bringers are. I'm sure
Speaker 1: I did some seasons of Um, what have I done
Speaker 1: really quickly? I'm sure back in the day, I did
Speaker 1: some seasons of twenty four or something like that very fast.
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm sure I probably tried to do it
Speaker 1: in twenty four hours and failed epically. But yeah, I've
Speaker 1: definitely had a few of those. But I think so
Speaker 1: I love all the escapism, but the main draw I
Speaker 1: think of those things and the reason that I've sort
Speaker 1: of been um I think anyway, I kind of found
Speaker 1: myself this little niche of like villains but not really
Speaker 1: villains like humans. Yeah you've answered my God, damn you,
Speaker 1: damn samny j you you've answered my my answer before
Speaker 1: I've done it. But yeah, I like my my quest
Speaker 1: in life, whether it's songwriting or just like the way
Speaker 1: I have friendships and the way I connect with people
Speaker 1: is always about like trying to eat all the sides
Speaker 1: of it and you know, just empathy and human and
Speaker 1: and so when I see these characters, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so on West World, my character, this guy's a douche bag.
Speaker 1: But why And then you find out in the second
Speaker 1: season that actually he's had this very strange relationship with
Speaker 1: his dad and doesn't feel like he's loved and is
Speaker 1: acting out like a baby, you know, and we all
Speaker 1: have this like Russian doll of ourselves, Like I think,
Speaker 1: like the teenager, the strappy teenager that we were, and
Speaker 1: the love that Russian dollar of yourselves. It's so right
Speaker 1: like that, I see what you're saying though this you know,
Speaker 1: the hangry baby and the strappy teenager, and then the
Speaker 1: like adventurous twenty year old and the like you know,
Speaker 1: trying to be more majorre than you are thirty year old,
Speaker 1: and then this slightly more together for your like, we
Speaker 1: we gather these things together and they never go away.
Speaker 1: And then when we're tired or or stressed or whatever,
Speaker 1: like these these things like like they they kind of
Speaker 1: come out on us. And I just think all people
Speaker 1: have the power to be every thing and the capacity
Speaker 1: to feel everything. And so when I get these villainous
Speaker 1: kind of characters, I'm interested in telling those stories about hope.
Speaker 1: And if I'm the obstacle, that's that's that's how I
Speaker 1: fit into the story. But I want to find those
Speaker 1: little ways that I can humanize. And you know, if
Speaker 1: if the character is scary, where is where is he vulnerable?
Speaker 1: And if the character is cold, what what can make
Speaker 1: him feel warm? Um? You know, if the character is
Speaker 1: is tense, where do we see those little moments of
Speaker 1: him relax? You know, I think I think I'm always
Speaker 1: trying to look at things from two sides, and I
Speaker 1: think that's what I'm trying to do with my music
Speaker 1: as well. It's very interesting. I'm in film school, by
Speaker 1: the way, are you amazing? Yes, So I'm learning about
Speaker 1: just directing camera and goes and all the stuff, and
Speaker 1: I find it so fascinating the ways you can tell
Speaker 1: a story and how you can do that without even words.
Speaker 1: You can just do that through cinematography totally. What would
Speaker 1: you say your most impactful moment you've had on set?
Speaker 1: I think there's there are so many. Um. I think
Speaker 1: it's always actually useful to think about the moments in
Speaker 1: which you feel like you failed a bit, because then
Speaker 1: you can look back and see how much you've grown.
Speaker 1: And I think I think I remember being quite overwhelmed
Speaker 1: on the first Narnia movie and looking at these incredible
Speaker 1: sets and costumes and you know, stunt departments and you know,
Speaker 1: hundreds of extras on horses, and it's just this overwhelmingly
Speaker 1: wonderful life event for me. But I remember there was
Speaker 1: a scene where I was supposed to be kind of
Speaker 1: melancholy and the director sort of said, oh, what's your
Speaker 1: sort of process to get into this? And I don't
Speaker 1: know if I even really had one at that point,
Speaker 1: like I didn't know enough about what I was doing,
Speaker 1: and I felt a little bit ashamed that I couldn't
Speaker 1: sort of I wasn't giving them him what he wanted.
Speaker 1: And I think now, you know, fifteen years, twenty years
Speaker 1: later or whatever, like I I've sort of pride myself
Speaker 1: on being able to put myself into any situation and
Speaker 1: feel any human emotion and convey that. Um, but it's
Speaker 1: something that I've worked on really, really hard over a
Speaker 1: long period of time. So I think, um, you know,
Speaker 1: just being being challenged, I think is probably the key
Speaker 1: moments where and and actually the kind of direction that
Speaker 1: I love from a director is once they've sort of
Speaker 1: once you've sort of gone a trust, if they'd just
Speaker 1: come up to you and sort of say I don't
Speaker 1: believe you. You know, it's just a very simple piece
Speaker 1: of challenging direction because then you're like, Okay, in this take,
Speaker 1: I must tell the truth, or in this take, I
Speaker 1: must really listen to what they're saying, or something very
Speaker 1: specific like that. I think if you take one thing
Speaker 1: into the way that you're doing something, often like everything
Speaker 1: else then just slots into place. Okay, we have to
Speaker 1: take a quick break, but when we come back, I
Speaker 1: want to talk more about acting, specifically the auditioning process,
Speaker 1: your new EP, and much more will be right back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: something that is very interesting they want to bring up
Speaker 1: with you is I have a lot of friends that
Speaker 1: are actors, and something that I've realized is the job
Speaker 1: is auditioning, Like that is the full time job. And
Speaker 1: then when you get cast, that's great, But the full
Speaker 1: time job is auditioning and oftentimes rejection um and that
Speaker 1: can be really hard, especially when it's constant, and if
Speaker 1: you're in an industry when they're like thousands of you. Essentially,
Speaker 1: how have you dealt with that throughout your career and
Speaker 1: what advice do you have for people who are listening
Speaker 1: that want to get into acting or are but they're
Speaker 1: coming back with just rejections after audition and audition. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think there's no way around that. You have to
Speaker 1: develop a bit of a thick skin with it. And
Speaker 1: it doesn't stop at auditions, you know. I there are
Speaker 1: films that I did earlier in my Creator which the
Speaker 1: response was so critical and negative and poisonous, and you
Speaker 1: have to develop a bit of a thick skin and
Speaker 1: remember why you love it, and remember why you keep pushing,
Speaker 1: and remember why you you kind of hang in there. Um.
Speaker 1: I think with auditions it's about reframing it to an
Speaker 1: opportunity for you to show them what you would do
Speaker 1: with this material. You look at these words, and remember
Speaker 1: that only you'll only really ever get cast in anything
Speaker 1: because you're you, not because of some magic tricks circus
Speaker 1: trick that you'll pull off. Yes, maybe if you can
Speaker 1: do a certain skill or do a certain accent, that
Speaker 1: will help. But actually they've got something in mind when
Speaker 1: you walk in. But everyone who watches you walk into
Speaker 1: the room wants it to be you. They want to
Speaker 1: find the person. So if you come in with all
Speaker 1: of your you, all of your essence, all of like
Speaker 1: what you took from these words and you it's a
Speaker 1: it's an opportunity for you to present what you make
Speaker 1: of of what you've read, basically, and and if you
Speaker 1: leave that in there, then then you can never have
Speaker 1: any regret about what you offered them. And if they
Speaker 1: did choose it, it's you know, it's it's simply because
Speaker 1: they had a different idea of what it was, not
Speaker 1: because of anything you did or didn't do. Um. Trying
Speaker 1: to please other people is never going to be the
Speaker 1: way forward. It's going to be the thing that it's
Speaker 1: going to be. Do it the way that you want
Speaker 1: to do it. And if you keep doing that, eventually
Speaker 1: someone that you know, someone will respond to that. It's
Speaker 1: about you know, so it's about sort of authenticity. I
Speaker 1: think something people people respond to something that feels honest.
Speaker 1: But you know, there's no way around it. It's it's
Speaker 1: an industry that you have to do, develop a little
Speaker 1: bit of a thick skin and sort of somebody once
Speaker 1: told me, you walk walk into the room, no, you know,
Speaker 1: believing that that job is yours, and walk out of
Speaker 1: the room knowing that it's not. And then it will
Speaker 1: always be this like incredible surprise if you do get
Speaker 1: the job, but you won't ever be like gutted to
Speaker 1: your core. But having said that, there are always those
Speaker 1: few jobs that you've auditioned for which you're just like,
Speaker 1: how did I not get that job? Is there a
Speaker 1: movie that you wish you were in? And if so,
Speaker 1: what character what do you have played? It could be
Speaker 1: a classic, it could be a more recent one. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, there are some, I mean, I'm sure there
Speaker 1: are I'm sure there are so many. Um, I will
Speaker 1: tell you the one that I will tell you the
Speaker 1: one that stung for me many many, many years ago.
Speaker 1: I did about ten auditions for a film called Across
Speaker 1: the Universe, which was a Beatles movie, and Evan rachel
Speaker 1: Wood started it with Jim Sturgis and Evan rachel Wood
Speaker 1: then was in West World, and I remember telling her,
Speaker 1: you know, many many years later, like I wanted I
Speaker 1: wanted to be in that film with you so badly
Speaker 1: because it was singing Beetles and the Beatles too. It
Speaker 1: was singing Beatles songs in a movie. It was just unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And when I've done sort of ten auditions for it,
Speaker 1: it was just crushing to not get that one. Um
Speaker 1: but um, you know, so there are always going to
Speaker 1: be a few which kind of which kind of sting.
Speaker 1: But then you look at all the things you did
Speaker 1: do and the collectively made you who you are. It's,
Speaker 1: you know, do you think you're going to be prioritizing
Speaker 1: music over acting going forward? Are you going to find
Speaker 1: a balance between the two. So interesting you said prioritizing
Speaker 1: because that's actually one of the reasons I did it
Speaker 1: was because it was pointed out to me that your
Speaker 1: priorities are the things that you actually prioritize, not the
Speaker 1: things that you tell people are your priorities, because those
Speaker 1: are just like the ways you want to be seen, like,
Speaker 1: you know, because I remember some I said, oh, my
Speaker 1: priorities are you know, playing more music, My priorities are
Speaker 1: you know, having a family doing this at the end,
Speaker 1: and I think, and I think it might have been
Speaker 1: my mom who said, um, well, no, your priorities are
Speaker 1: your work and your friends and your family and those things,
Speaker 1: because those are the things that you actually spend all
Speaker 1: of your time on off and the other things are
Speaker 1: just like ways that you want to see yourself and
Speaker 1: the things that you aspire to spend more time on,
Speaker 1: but they're not your priorities. And that was a real
Speaker 1: like spin around moment for me of I need to
Speaker 1: start prioritizing the things that I think that I want
Speaker 1: to make my priorities. Otherwise they won't I'll let they
Speaker 1: you know, I'll look back and they won't have been
Speaker 1: my priorities. So I think that's an important word. You know,
Speaker 1: what you prioritize, But I think no, I mean I
Speaker 1: prioritize my my acting and my job and the thing
Speaker 1: that makes me feel like me. But but I love
Speaker 1: music so much and I always have and it's always
Speaker 1: been such a huge part of my life, just not
Speaker 1: in a sort of more public sharing kind of way,
Speaker 1: but I love that feeling of sharing it so far
Speaker 1: at least, and so I definitely want to do more
Speaker 1: of it and try and find a balance and try
Speaker 1: and find a way to keep keep doing it like this,
Speaker 1: because um, it feels, honestly, even just this, doing this
Speaker 1: chat with you now, like it feels so much better
Speaker 1: to be talking about the way I really see things,
Speaker 1: rather than a script that I didn't write and just
Speaker 1: promoting something because you have to, but something that you
Speaker 1: actually created, and that's what's so beautiful about it. Made
Speaker 1: yeah exactly. Okay, I have to ask, Yes, you're a
Speaker 1: very private person, which I think is so important, especially
Speaker 1: nowadays because everything is put out there sometimes too much,
Speaker 1: you could argue, and in your music it's very honest
Speaker 1: and heartfelt and authentic. What has that been like so far?
Speaker 1: Just a response and sharing your life and your thoughts
Speaker 1: and your feelings when you haven't had before. Well, I
Speaker 1: think part of it is by virtue of you know,
Speaker 1: when I was young, journalists would sort of say, if
Speaker 1: you want to be an actor, you have to answer
Speaker 1: these kind of questions about this that the other. And
Speaker 1: I think that it's really important to draw that personal
Speaker 1: line for yourself. And it's different for everyone, and that's
Speaker 1: actually completely okay, but different for everyone what you want
Speaker 1: to share about your life in the same way that
Speaker 1: everyone is in control of their own Instagram. You can
Speaker 1: pretend your life is as as cool and sexy as
Speaker 1: you like, but it might not make you very happy.
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, my mom is a
Speaker 1: is a you know, like a sex and relationship psychotherapist,
Speaker 1: and she was always you know, teaching the importance of
Speaker 1: having your kind of particularly romantic relationships, but even your
Speaker 1: like friendship and stuff. They're they're yours and they are
Speaker 1: you know, they are your support system when the world feels,
Speaker 1: you know, it should be you against the world, not
Speaker 1: not kind of you. If you offer up everything that
Speaker 1: you are publicly, then and then everything that you are
Speaker 1: publicly is up for scrutiny and up for criticism, and
Speaker 1: and then you've got nowhere to lean because they've all
Speaker 1: been a part of it. And I think that so
Speaker 1: that that became created to me quite early on. But actually,
Speaker 1: as I get older, I realized that, you know, ship,
Speaker 1: what you do with music is you share it. What
Speaker 1: you do with stories is you tell them and you
Speaker 1: share them. And I think that the things that have
Speaker 1: made me feel void and and and comforted in times
Speaker 1: when I've been low is realizing that everyone feels the
Speaker 1: same things pretty much. Um, the lows feel the same
Speaker 1: kind of low. You know, anger feels the same, guilt
Speaker 1: feels the same, misery feels the same for everyone. So
Speaker 1: so UM being able to understand that everyone feels those things,
Speaker 1: and everyone is confused, and everyone is like trying to
Speaker 1: see things from me, you know, other people's perspectives in
Speaker 1: the same way that struggle is the same. And I
Speaker 1: think that there's no I realized there is absolutely no
Speaker 1: harm in sharing a little bit more of that about
Speaker 1: myself and trying to be encouraging. And actually I'm a
Speaker 1: very hopeful person. So all my songs are have an
Speaker 1: element of hope in them, and so you know, to
Speaker 1: bring a bit of that hopefulness and joyfulness and soulfulness
Speaker 1: to my characters and also to the songs. If you
Speaker 1: can get someone dancing in the kitchen then or if
Speaker 1: you can get someone like crying to it with a
Speaker 1: cocoa because of something that's happened in their life, that's
Speaker 1: all good too. And I think that's one of the
Speaker 1: things that is so important and something that I unintentionally
Speaker 1: am trying to do with this podcast is that something
Speaker 1: I realized just starting is how the media has taken
Speaker 1: the human out of the person and how you read
Speaker 1: a headline and they become a figure that is on pedestal,
Speaker 1: but they're they don't cry, They're like, they're just not
Speaker 1: a human being with a heart and that bleeds. And
Speaker 1: I think that's what's so great about you sharing more
Speaker 1: with your music is that you're letting people back in
Speaker 1: on you that you are a human totally. And I
Speaker 1: want people to understand that because my humanness is actually
Speaker 1: probably I think the best thing about me, exactly like
Speaker 1: your flaws and everything it makes you you. Um, So
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind people sharing, sharing that and knowing that.
Speaker 1: But I can't begin to tell you how many people
Speaker 1: that I know personally that I've met that are in
Speaker 1: the public eye that are just so entirely misunderstood and
Speaker 1: so entirely misjudged by virtue of how people are keen
Speaker 1: to portray them because they feel a certain you know,
Speaker 1: if it's a narrative that people want to portray a
Speaker 1: narrative exactly. It's very rare that you come across someone
Speaker 1: in real life when you get to know them a
Speaker 1: little bit, whose humanity isn't front and center exactly. And
Speaker 1: I feel like that's one of the things I'm trying
Speaker 1: to do with this podcast. If one person listens to
Speaker 1: this really like we're all human and like that's okay,
Speaker 1: So it's you should embrace that. Well, you're already doing
Speaker 1: it because me and you were talking about it right now,
Speaker 1: and I love someone's listening. By the way, I saw
Speaker 1: an interview did in September, or someone brought up you
Speaker 1: about doing music, You're like, oh, I don't know, and
Speaker 1: then someone said about doing it. By the time you
Speaker 1: afford to, you're like, oh, then i'd have to get
Speaker 1: on that. You went on it, and you did it.
Speaker 1: I got on it, step on it. Yeah, I totally did.
Speaker 1: I think I may also have already been like toying
Speaker 1: with the idea when I said that, because that again,
Speaker 1: old me would have been very careful about that. But
Speaker 1: who's new Ben Barnes. Who's new Ben Barnes? The new Me?
Speaker 1: The new Ben Barnes is the most is the most me?
Speaker 1: Love that? Yeah? I think I just I feel I
Speaker 1: feel more me being like I don't feel necessarily like
Speaker 1: I have to be all things to all people, which
Speaker 1: I think is the thing that I have been a
Speaker 1: bit guilty of, like just just wanting to be exciting
Speaker 1: enough and funny enough and or you know, tough enough
Speaker 1: or whatever it is that I'm You know, when you
Speaker 1: play all these different types of characters, you kind of
Speaker 1: want to be those things for the people that saw
Speaker 1: you that way. Um, there's the person that I am
Speaker 1: on a Sunday underneath Hill, you know. Yeah, Okay, we
Speaker 1: have to take one more quick break, but when we
Speaker 1: come back, we'll dive into your new EP and much more.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back and we're back. As you know,
Speaker 1: I love your new EP. You know what my favorite
Speaker 1: song is? I don't, but I have to say, like,
Speaker 1: knowing what people's favorite one is and why it is
Speaker 1: like the thing that I'm most excited to find out.
Speaker 1: So hit me. Okay, So first song I listened to
Speaker 1: it is eleven eleven, which I love because I feel
Speaker 1: like it gets you and it puts you in a
Speaker 1: good mood. I feel like you can listen to it
Speaker 1: in different settings, whether you're in a car ride, whether
Speaker 1: you're just jamming out in your room. You can do
Speaker 1: it all. But I will say one song that I
Speaker 1: think I love, that I'm excited for people to hear,
Speaker 1: is not the end. Oh yeah, I think the lyrics
Speaker 1: and the melody are so beautiful. Oh good? What was
Speaker 1: the process in writing that one? So it's a few things.
Speaker 1: One my dad, when I was a kid, used to
Speaker 1: say to me that John Lennon quote about if it's
Speaker 1: not okay, sorry, everything will be okay in the end,
Speaker 1: and if it's not okay, it's not the end, which
Speaker 1: is like the typical John Lenning genius um. But at
Speaker 1: the root of it is this very simple, beautiful thing,
Speaker 1: which is basically like you know, taking someone's hand and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: are you okay? No, okay, it will get better. That's
Speaker 1: basically what you're saying, which is the best thing you
Speaker 1: can ever say to anyone, because it will change. Things
Speaker 1: will change inevitably. The only thing that we're sure of
Speaker 1: is that things will change. And then I was thinking
Speaker 1: through like all this like cliche life advice, and I
Speaker 1: was actually watching like some like I've seen the commercials
Speaker 1: that were like mocking people stitching those like live laugh
Speaker 1: long uh signs, which like the old Ladies have no
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know about TikTok, but it was
Speaker 1: on to Tell Vision. It was it was like a
Speaker 1: show I think that was mocking it and then m
Speaker 1: and I was like, do you know what though, when
Speaker 1: people tell you that stuff, they're trying to do a
Speaker 1: good thing. They're like trying to like be there for you.
Speaker 1: And even if it sounds like a cliche, like all
Speaker 1: of those phrases that we tell each other like you know,
Speaker 1: got there for a reason. And so I was like
Speaker 1: listening all of the cliches I could think of that
Speaker 1: we're like about support. I was like what if I
Speaker 1: what if I put these all in this song? Which
Speaker 1: I did, and then what if I try and reclaim
Speaker 1: this like live laugh love thing is like like I'm
Speaker 1: not going to say that to you, but like what
Speaker 1: if I put big like Gospelly backing vocals on it
Speaker 1: a vibe like good live love love, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: what if I make that sound like a bit vibe,
Speaker 1: and I put some organ and make it sound like
Speaker 1: a bit like Doobie Brothers. E What if I make
Speaker 1: give it a bit of that like some soul. What
Speaker 1: if it's one of those songs you can like put
Speaker 1: on in the morning and just go yeah, I would
Speaker 1: like that. Do that again and I go yeah. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I do that when I get I go wolf. It's
Speaker 1: kind of similar when I'm shocked. When I'm shocked, I
Speaker 1: go wolf. Yeah. I feel that I make a lot
Speaker 1: of sound effects. I'm realizing when I sit down, I'm
Speaker 1: like and I'm just realizing that comes out of my
Speaker 1: mouth and I don't even realize it. Well, you're not forty.
Speaker 1: When I sit down, I go. When I sit down,
Speaker 1: I go, I do that, And it's kind of concerning
Speaker 1: to me that I'm already doing them, like when I'm forty,
Speaker 1: what noises? Am I going to be making? Good ones?
Speaker 1: Good ones? Good ones? Is a correct answer? Thank you
Speaker 1: ten points for me. I think you should do Broadway,
Speaker 1: just thinking because it brings together acting, storytelling, music. Have
Speaker 1: we thought about this, Yes, we thought about it. But
Speaker 1: here's the next question, which maybe you can answer. What
Speaker 1: show should I be in because I do love musical stuff,
Speaker 1: like that's where I started off. Like with my teens,
Speaker 1: I would do that stuff. And I've done a full
Speaker 1: of professional ones when I was very early twenties, but
Speaker 1: I haven't touched it in so long, and but I
Speaker 1: would want it to be something really good. Okay, right
Speaker 1: off the bat. Three off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: One waitress. Okay, there's a great guy roll in it
Speaker 1: with some great soulful music in it. That is true.
Speaker 1: The doctor too. If you're into more of a storyline,
Speaker 1: I say dear of Vanhansen because that hits different. But
Speaker 1: am I going to play the dad? I mean, why not?
Speaker 1: He have some good songs to break in a glove
Speaker 1: if you know that, I do know that. But both
Speaker 1: of these, both of these roles are on stage for
Speaker 1: about twenty minutes. But here's the thing. I want to
Speaker 1: be in it. I want to be involved. If I'm
Speaker 1: doing something, I want to be involved. Would you ever
Speaker 1: make a musical? Yeah, maybe we should just write one.
Speaker 1: Maybe you should write one for me, Maybe you should
Speaker 1: write one together. Honestly, I think that'd be fun, because
Speaker 1: I think there's something about musicals that are so underrated
Speaker 1: nowadays from New York City to give context, but they're
Speaker 1: coming back. They're coming back with like like obviously like
Speaker 1: the with the movie movies of like Hamilton, Different in
Speaker 1: the Heights and you know, all of that stuff and
Speaker 1: into the words even um into the Woods. I love
Speaker 1: that musical. I would do that. I want to play
Speaker 1: the Prince and the Wolf both. Yeah. Both. It works
Speaker 1: really well when you do both, you know what, I
Speaker 1: something like eight shows a week. You're doing both characters
Speaker 1: that would deserve award. That's that's that's that's the way
Speaker 1: forward for sure. So what are you? What are you
Speaker 1: working on now? Yeah? I just finished something like two
Speaker 1: days ago, which is a new Netflix anthology horror show
Speaker 1: that Gmo del Toro has put together called The Cabinet
Speaker 1: of Curiosities, And every episode has like a different story
Speaker 1: in a different cast and they're all like horror stories.
Speaker 1: And I did one with Crispin Glover that is very creepy.
Speaker 1: And I always said I would never do horror because
Speaker 1: I am too scared and don't like being creepy. I
Speaker 1: don't like being creeped out. I don't mind like being shocked,
Speaker 1: and I don't mind thrillers. But I don't like feeling
Speaker 1: like creeped out. Yeah, but I was I couldn't say
Speaker 1: no to like give a dotur and this and the
Speaker 1: script was so cool, and I was like, and I
Speaker 1: got to play this this character over like sort of
Speaker 1: twenty five year period, so I was like, I have
Speaker 1: to do this, so that will be coming soon. See.
Speaker 1: Then now I'm torn because I hate horror, but now
Speaker 1: I want to see it. But you love me friends, now,
Speaker 1: so now I'm torn. Well just watch my episode. Okay,
Speaker 1: I will do that, and I will. It's very creepy
Speaker 1: and it is really disturbing and the ending is terrifying,
Speaker 1: so feel free to like, like, feel free to like,
Speaker 1: um message me sobbing at the end, going why do
Speaker 1: you maybe watch this? Okay? When is it? When is
Speaker 1: this coming out? Or is there I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but I'm sure next year a sure, But
Speaker 1: you know, I need to mentally prepare for it now
Speaker 1: that I know there's a thriller at the end, I'm okay, okay, fine,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? I was not fine
Speaker 1: shooting it. I was not fine. I knew what you
Speaker 1: scared shooting it. I was, honestly so I tried to
Speaker 1: trick myself by like I tried to trick myself. I
Speaker 1: would get the director lot to like play me creepy music,
Speaker 1: or like make banging sounds during takes, or like, and
Speaker 1: sometimes I wouldn't look at something. I would do the
Speaker 1: rehearsal with my eyes closed so that when they did
Speaker 1: the first take, I could look at something for the
Speaker 1: first time. And I try not to give it away.
Speaker 1: But in the end I did the rehearsal my eyes
Speaker 1: closed so that I could not look at something, and
Speaker 1: then when I saw it, I was genuinely, very very upset. See,
Speaker 1: I've I've heard horror more movies, like people on set
Speaker 1: being like, no, it wasn't scary, but you're telling me
Speaker 1: you were actually scared. Well, I am a sensitive soul.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, that's it doesn't surprise me. But you've
Speaker 1: played a lot. You have. You've had some gruesome deaths
Speaker 1: in your career. I have. I have heard some I
Speaker 1: do die a lot. You do. Now, why do we
Speaker 1: think that people want to kill me? Why do people
Speaker 1: want to kill me so much? I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think we need to explore that in one of your songs,
Speaker 1: My new my new album Why Did People Want to
Speaker 1: Kill Me So Much? It's a different genre. It's like
Speaker 1: a grunge metal, like some grunge metal add in with
Speaker 1: some nice orchestra. Yeah, but it's also a musical. I
Speaker 1: will say, I am so happy. Are Do you have
Speaker 1: any plans for when this EP comes out? Are you
Speaker 1: doing any celebration? Are you just going to be by
Speaker 1: your piano? But I haven't really thought about it, um,
Speaker 1: but I should definitely do something. I was away shooting
Speaker 1: when the when the first song came out, so I
Speaker 1: was celebrating on I was just celebrating on like Instagram,
Speaker 1: like watching all these other people celebrating me, which was
Speaker 1: so lovely because I owed so much of Why did
Speaker 1: it too? You know. I started putting covers and things
Speaker 1: on Instagram a few years ago, and people, you know,
Speaker 1: started off by saying like oh this you sound great,
Speaker 1: or like I really love this, please do more. And
Speaker 1: then in the end it was on Twitter. It was like,
Speaker 1: you know, where's the damn album you're sending me that?
Speaker 1: That was a great imitation of Twitter, thank you, and
Speaker 1: so that is that is my limitation of Twitter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then so then I was like, yeah, where is
Speaker 1: the damn album. I'm gonna make it. I got to
Speaker 1: do it, so I owe them a lot. I'll celebrate there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, hopefully I should do something in the actual
Speaker 1: real world. Are I are I r L see I
Speaker 1: know things I r L I know Internet things. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: just for future reference. If you know it, don't say
Speaker 1: you know it. And also, don't get it wrong till
Speaker 1: I saw a podcast before you, then get it right.
Speaker 1: If you ever need help with some like slang, just
Speaker 1: let me know and I will tell you what it means.
Speaker 1: I do that for a lot of people. Actually, right, great,
Speaker 1: I need I need that person in my life so badly. Well, then,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on my podcast. You're
Speaker 1: so welcome. Hopefully we can meet in person one day
Speaker 1: and not that would be brilliant. That would be ideal.
Speaker 1: Next time we do this, we'll do it in the studio.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it was so
Speaker 1: great to talk to you. Nobody still to thank you.
Speaker 1: You're so good at this. Thank you, Ben, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on my podcast. Again. I loved
Speaker 1: this conversation and I'm excited to meet you in person
Speaker 1: one day. Um, if you haven't. Please listen to and
Speaker 1: download songs for you. The CP is truly incredible. Anyways,
Speaker 1: don't forget to have follow Ben on social media. It's
Speaker 1: Ben Barnes. And follow me on Instagram and it's Sammy J.
Speaker 1: That's I T S S A M M, Y J
Speaker 1: A y E. And please subscribe to the podcast and
Speaker 1: leave a comment in a review because I always like
Speaker 1: to read. I read all of them, and I always
Speaker 1: like to see what people say, and I want your feedback.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoyed this week's episode and I
Speaker 1: will see you next week. By