Speaker 1: Happy holidays everybody on Dan Horde and this is the
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast. This is it. Make no mistake where
Speaker 1: you are. This is it You'll go in no further addition,
Speaker 1: as we look ahead the Sunday season finale at Paul
Speaker 1: Brown Stadium between the one and fourteen Bengals and the
Speaker 1: six and nine Cleveland Browns. Coming up, we'll hear from
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton on what could be his final game in
Speaker 1: a Bengals uniform. Dave Lapham and I will weigh in
Speaker 1: on that. Plus, now that the Bengals have clinched the
Speaker 1: number one pick in the draft, we'll share some thoughts
Speaker 1: on the quarterback that many people expect Cincinnati to select
Speaker 1: Heisman Trophy winner Joe Burrow from LSU. And in this
Speaker 1: week's Know the Faux segment, we'll discuss the Browns and
Speaker 1: the future of first year head coach Freddie Kitchens with
Speaker 1: Zack Jackson, who covers the team for the Athletic All
Speaker 1: of that is straight ahead, but first, here's a quick
Speaker 1: reminder that you can add the latest edition of this
Speaker 1: podcast delivered rite to your phone, tablet, or computer by
Speaker 1: subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or pod Bean.
Speaker 1: It's the greatest thing since board games. In this high
Speaker 1: tech you can do anything on your phone world, sometimes
Speaker 1: it's nice to play a traditional board game. This Christmas,
Speaker 1: my son received a game called Ticket to Ride as
Speaker 1: a gift. There's a board with a big map of
Speaker 1: the US, some plastic train cars and cards. That's it.
Speaker 1: No joystick, no WiFi required. It's an old school board
Speaker 1: game and it's awesome. And I don't just say that
Speaker 1: because I dominated our family's first attempt to play. So
Speaker 1: here's to Monopoly, Scrabble, Munchkin, and all of the great
Speaker 1: board games out there that are awesome for the first
Speaker 1: few days after Christmas until they wind up in a
Speaker 1: closet until next Christmas. Now, let's get to Sunday's football
Speaker 1: game at Paul Brown Stadium. There's a real possibility that
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton will play in his one hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: seventh and final game in a Bengals uniform on Sunday.
Speaker 1: It's not definite. He's under contract for one more season
Speaker 1: at seventeen point five million dollars. And here are the possibilities. A.
Speaker 1: If the Bengals draft Joe Burrow or another quarterback Number
Speaker 1: one overall, they could keep Andy as a veteran mentor
Speaker 1: to help the rookies adjustment to the NFL B the
Speaker 1: Bengals select a QB number one overall and trade Dalton
Speaker 1: for a draft pick, which seems like the most likely
Speaker 1: outcome if they can get a good enough deal or
Speaker 1: see the Bengals could look at, say Chase Young is
Speaker 1: the only sure thing in the draft, and keep Dalton
Speaker 1: for at least one more season as the starting quarterback.
Speaker 1: If Sunday's game is and he's last in Orange and black,
Speaker 1: he'll leave quite a legacy. He's completed more passes and
Speaker 1: thrown more tds than any other quarterback in franchise history,
Speaker 1: and if he leads the Bengals to a win on Sunday,
Speaker 1: he'll have the highest winning percentage of any Bengals quarterback
Speaker 1: to start at least twenty five games. If the team
Speaker 1: loses on Sunday, Andy will fall to number two behind
Speaker 1: Ken Anderson. Andy and his wife jj have also been
Speaker 1: incredibly giving of their time and resources to needy families
Speaker 1: in the Cincinnati area through their foundation. Here's Andy on
Speaker 1: the potential of this being his final game as a
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Bengal. I understand the possibility of it. So I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll have to wait and see once the season's over
Speaker 1: and see see what happens. But it's obviously not my
Speaker 1: focus right now. Like I said, I understand the situation
Speaker 1: that that I'm in, and so I'm trying to go
Speaker 1: out and play a game I could play. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I want to finish this thing all the right way.
Speaker 1: I want to finish this thing off of a win
Speaker 1: for this team, and um, so doing everything I can
Speaker 1: to make sure we play well on Sunday. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: not the end of my career. Obviously, there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of Uh, a lot of our life has been
Speaker 1: here in Cincinnati. And again, we don't know what's going
Speaker 1: to happen. I don't know what's going to happen, and um,
Speaker 1: I have to wait and see after the season for
Speaker 1: all that to get handled. But um, you know, a
Speaker 1: big part of our life has been here, and um
Speaker 1: you know we've made Cincinnati our home and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we've grown up. My family's grown up together, JJ and
Speaker 1: I have. You know, it's been our whole merry life
Speaker 1: here like three kids. Like you said, so it's been
Speaker 1: the city has been a big part of our life.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of good people here in Cincinnati, and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that are willing to, you know,
Speaker 1: to help others. And I think, uh, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of once we started our foundation and kind of started
Speaker 1: some of the things that that we've been doing, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people that hopped on board just because
Speaker 1: they're they're willing to serve and willing to um, you know,
Speaker 1: give to those in need. And so I think there's
Speaker 1: an instant connection there. And then we're just trying to
Speaker 1: be as involved as we can and try to help
Speaker 1: out in so many different ways. And so, um, I think,
Speaker 1: I just you can't do it by yourself. You have
Speaker 1: to have support from a lot of people. And we've
Speaker 1: had a lot of support from the city. That was
Speaker 1: the one thing that that we wanted to do when
Speaker 1: we first got here, is we want to make sure
Speaker 1: that we were all in, and we were. We've been
Speaker 1: all in too since the day since we got here,
Speaker 1: and hopefully people see that, you know, I've I've received
Speaker 1: a lot of support throughout throughout my years here, and
Speaker 1: um again, we'll have to wait and see how this
Speaker 1: whole thing ends up. Badly enough, before Andy takes the
Speaker 1: field on Sunday, we could all be watching his successor
Speaker 1: on Saturday when LSU faces Oklahoma in the Peach Bowl,
Speaker 1: as Joe Burrow looks to lead the Tigers to the
Speaker 1: National Championship game against Ohio State or Clemson. This conversation
Speaker 1: with Dave Lapham, we start with the current favorite to
Speaker 1: be the number one pick in the twenty twenty NFL Draft.
Speaker 1: I am now thinking that I'm on the Joe Burrow train.
Speaker 1: The Heisman Trophy winning quarterback out of LSU. He completed
Speaker 1: seventy eight percent of his passes this year through for
Speaker 1: nearly five thousand yards, forty eight touchdown passes, six interceptions.
Speaker 1: He's a leader. The intangibles are off the charts. The
Speaker 1: one negative when you talk to football people that have
Speaker 1: seen him is that they say he has what they
Speaker 1: describe as an average plus arm. That's what's said about
Speaker 1: Joe Montana coming out. And note to Dame when he
Speaker 1: was drafting the third round, it was the arm strength
Speaker 1: was the question, not the football IQ, not the decision making.
Speaker 1: You know nothing from an intangible standpoint, but they were
Speaker 1: worried about his arm. And you know, when you talk
Speaker 1: to a lot of quarterbacks, quarterback coaches, people familiar with
Speaker 1: the position. The biggest thing is throwing with the anticipation
Speaker 1: and accuracy. You have to be a straight a player
Speaker 1: and his accuracy, my gosh, in the SEC to be
Speaker 1: completing almost eighty percent of year passes man to shives
Speaker 1: and uh so he has to be throwing with some
Speaker 1: anticipation to have those kind of completion numbers. So I
Speaker 1: think he might be one of those straight a Guys's
Speaker 1: got to do a little bit more. Look, you know,
Speaker 1: research into you know, how he plays. But the thing
Speaker 1: that every team that's having success now, not just the
Speaker 1: Jacksons of the world where there's you know, just one
Speaker 1: of those kind of guys, but quarterbacks that can extend
Speaker 1: and create plays and make it impossible for guys in
Speaker 1: the back end to cover long enough. The mahomes Is
Speaker 1: of the world, Aaron Rodgers, you know at his he's
Speaker 1: still doing it. Those guys that can do that get
Speaker 1: out of pocket and buy time, they're valuable in borrows athletic.
Speaker 1: He can do it. I mean, he's he's shown that
Speaker 1: in the SEC's spun away from people. He's not afraid to, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, step up in the pocket, climbed the pocket,
Speaker 1: hit a rush lane that's vacated, get yards he's got. Probably.
Speaker 1: I bet people are going to be surprised to see
Speaker 1: his times at the combine, how fast he is, and
Speaker 1: what his shuttle is and all those kind of things,
Speaker 1: because this guy's an All state basketball player. I mean,
Speaker 1: you do basketball. You know the athletes that are on
Speaker 1: basketball court. In my opinion, NBA players are the best
Speaker 1: athletes in the world and these guys are ridiculous, and
Speaker 1: you know, he's athletic, So I'm pretty much sold. I'm
Speaker 1: going to be very interested to see him Saturday night
Speaker 1: against Ohio State because all the people here in Ohio
Speaker 1: are going to be, you know, highly interested and keenly
Speaker 1: interested in that football game because they think sunrises and
Speaker 1: sets on Buckeyes offense, defense or whatever, see if the
Speaker 1: defense can do anything with Joe Burrow. We don't know
Speaker 1: for sure how things are going to play out next year,
Speaker 1: but it certainly feels like there's a strong possibility that
Speaker 1: this is going to be Andy Dalton's last game at
Speaker 1: the Bengals uniform. Yeah, it does. And you know, I
Speaker 1: think he's handled everything with class. No surprise there when
Speaker 1: he was raised right, He's a man of faith and
Speaker 1: his faith is the strongest thing in his life, obviously,
Speaker 1: and he does things the right way. And honestly, he's
Speaker 1: had a great career. I mean when you look at
Speaker 1: him leading the Bengal statistically in a lot of passing
Speaker 1: areas considering the quarterbacks that have been here, and I
Speaker 1: know it's different eras and throw the ball a heck
Speaker 1: of a lot more and all those things. But he's
Speaker 1: done a good job for this franchise on and off
Speaker 1: the football field. His foundation has had a huge impact
Speaker 1: here in the state of Ohio and in the state
Speaker 1: of Texas as well. So he's done He's done a
Speaker 1: lot of really unbelievable things, and you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a I'm sure it'll be bittersweet for him. And
Speaker 1: if they particularly if they go and beat the Cleveland
Speaker 1: Browns and he has a big game, and that that's
Speaker 1: what you hope for. You hope that goes out on
Speaker 1: the highest note possible. And you know, like about a
Speaker 1: three touchdown, three hundred yard performance, no interception is Baker
Speaker 1: Mayfield has some turnovers, he doesn't, they win the football
Speaker 1: and potentially rides off into the sunset, you know, in
Speaker 1: a very very positive way. I hope that works out
Speaker 1: for him, and that would be the Hollywood script as such,
Speaker 1: and I think he deserves that. So I'm hopeful that
Speaker 1: that it does turn out that way for him because
Speaker 1: he's given everything he's got, you know, to the organization.
Speaker 1: And I think he's as stunned as anybody that in
Speaker 1: training camp. Watching him operate in training camp when he
Speaker 1: had most of his bodies available to him, and even
Speaker 1: before that, no ta's and mini camps, I was like, man,
Speaker 1: this is gonna this offense fits and he Dalton skill set.
Speaker 1: AJ Green's gonna have a big year. I mean, all
Speaker 1: these guys are gonna have play well. Man just unfolded.
Speaker 1: The football gods couldn't have been more cruel this year,
Speaker 1: for sure. It's funny how things have gone with him
Speaker 1: during his first five years, when they went to the
Speaker 1: playoffs every season. In that in that fifth year where
Speaker 1: he was a legitimate MVP candidate, it seemed like people
Speaker 1: were like, he's good, He's not good enough. And now
Speaker 1: that it appears that it might be winding down, there's
Speaker 1: a different feeling among Bengals fans. Well, we had it
Speaker 1: pretty good. Yeah, it's careful what you wish for. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't really miss it until you really do miss it.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't really know what you have until
Speaker 1: you don't. All those things. Uh. Andy Dalton was amazing
Speaker 1: to me that when he first said when he lost
Speaker 1: his third game in a row one season as Bengal,
Speaker 1: it's like this new experience. But I've never lost there
Speaker 1: in a row at any level you sports, high school, college,
Speaker 1: in the NFL. I'm like, wow, when you think about that,
Speaker 1: and any in all sports that you're participated in, Devon
Speaker 1: never lost three games in a row. That tells you
Speaker 1: that you know, it's not every single time. It can't
Speaker 1: be the team. You must be a factor in the
Speaker 1: in the formula that all those teams were winners. And
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton is a is a winner. I mean his makeup,
Speaker 1: his personality, the way he lives his life. He lives
Speaker 1: his life as a winner, not a loser. Speaking of winning,
Speaker 1: what a win at the end of a what so
Speaker 1: far as a one and fourteen season really make much
Speaker 1: of a difference. It would in my mind, as you know,
Speaker 1: as a former player, particularly after a last week's game,
Speaker 1: to make the comeback they made and not to finish it.
Speaker 1: You'll never hear about it anymore. It doesn't go in
Speaker 1: the record book as biggest come from behind to tie
Speaker 1: and losing overtime. It's the biggest come from behind victory
Speaker 1: and franchise history, it's not the biggest come from behind
Speaker 1: to almost win. It just it'll disappear except for the
Speaker 1: guys that played in it, and you know, people that
Speaker 1: were around to watch it and listen to it and
Speaker 1: hear about it and everything else. It's it's gonna historically,
Speaker 1: it won't have a legacy like it would in a
Speaker 1: record book. So not going to make a record book.
Speaker 1: So you're you're kind of like you have a you know,
Speaker 1: a weird taste in your mouth that you did a
Speaker 1: lot of things well to turn a game that was
Speaker 1: lopsided into a game, but you didn't win that game.
Speaker 1: So I think if you can win a division game
Speaker 1: and snap to add ten game division losing streak franchise
Speaker 1: records twelve in a row, you're at ten. If you
Speaker 1: lose this one, you're in danger of tying the record
Speaker 1: in your first division contest next year. You would want
Speaker 1: to eliminate that. You'd want to get a division win
Speaker 1: at home, you know, and in the season on a
Speaker 1: high note. And it is true the one thing you
Speaker 1: do remember in the offseason, you remember your last game
Speaker 1: first before anything else, and then you'll start remembering other games,
Speaker 1: but the last game is your most recent memory. So
Speaker 1: if you can go out with a win, you know,
Speaker 1: against a team that was on the cover of sports
Speaker 1: illustration is supposed to be all this and that. And
Speaker 1: you don't want to be swept two years in a
Speaker 1: row by the Cleveland Browns. That hasn't happened for a while.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of reasons you want to win
Speaker 1: this football game, and not to mention the most important
Speaker 1: building momentum for next year. You asked Jack Taylor question
Speaker 1: the other day about his biggest lessons in his first
Speaker 1: year is the Bengals head coach, and he talked about,
Speaker 1: we've hired good people, now I have to empower them.
Speaker 1: Do you think that that's a really significant thing for
Speaker 1: him to have learned? I do you know, I think
Speaker 1: as a CEO's that's probably I think that was the
Speaker 1: best trait that Paul Brown had. In my mind, Paul
Speaker 1: Brown could have been president of the United States, could
Speaker 1: have been CEO of p and because he surrounded himself
Speaker 1: with good people that he felt could do their job,
Speaker 1: and then he let them do their job. So and
Speaker 1: then if you didn't do the job, he would not
Speaker 1: hesitate to make a move and replace you. But he
Speaker 1: hired you with the intent of I believe in you,
Speaker 1: you believe in me, I'm going to let you do
Speaker 1: your job. So I do think that that's a big,
Speaker 1: big thing for Zach, you know, to think about and
Speaker 1: improve upon and all those sort of things, and for
Speaker 1: him to mention that as a lesson, I think it's
Speaker 1: a very positive thing. Zach and this staff will get
Speaker 1: to coach the Senior Bowl in a few weeks. How
Speaker 1: helpful can that be? I think very you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can you can watch tape on on guys and
Speaker 1: you can, um you know, see the athletic abilities and everything,
Speaker 1: but you can't see the intangibles. You know, and you
Speaker 1: can hear about them. But sometimes they can be jaundice
Speaker 1: one way or the other, depending on you know, a
Speaker 1: guy may have rubbed somebody the wrong way at a
Speaker 1: very high level and that now all of a sudden
Speaker 1: unfairly so, and so his label does whatever now if
Speaker 1: it's a consensus opinion, you know that's the way it is.
Speaker 1: But um, there's nothing like getting firsthand evaluation that stuff
Speaker 1: and finding out what makes a guy tick and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, putting him in situations where you want to
Speaker 1: see how he's going to respond on the football field,
Speaker 1: off the football field, whatever those things may be. And um,
Speaker 1: you know you can you can learn a lot. You
Speaker 1: can learn a lot about not only the player, but
Speaker 1: the person. And I think that's the big key is, Um,
Speaker 1: the player shows up on tape, the person doesn't. So
Speaker 1: I think I think getting that that hands on, um,
Speaker 1: you know, introduction and evaluation of people is huge. The
Speaker 1: Bengals placed AJ Green on injured reserve finally, so he's
Speaker 1: not on the roster for the final game of the season. What,
Speaker 1: in your mind is the best case scenario where his
Speaker 1: future is concerned. Well, that's a good question, Dan, I
Speaker 1: mean it's I guess. I guess that. I think his
Speaker 1: biggest deal right now is adjusting to that hundred percent.
Speaker 1: That's a different hundred percent. So you know, from from
Speaker 1: the team's standpoint, you can understand, Well, if that's what
Speaker 1: you're struggling with. Mentally, we're going to have to see
Speaker 1: how you do adjust to that we're going to tag you.
Speaker 1: And AJ is not gonna like to be tagged, but
Speaker 1: I think you don't. He won't even have to dig
Speaker 1: deep down. I think he's going to understand. He won't
Speaker 1: like it, but I think he's going to have an
Speaker 1: understanding of why they're they're, you know, going to be
Speaker 1: feeling that that's the way they have to approach it
Speaker 1: um And you know, I just hope, I just hope
Speaker 1: that at some point in time makes his own decisions.
Speaker 1: You hire agents, they work for you. You You don't work
Speaker 1: for them, so and you hire them to do their job,
Speaker 1: but you still hire them. So ultimately they're they're advisors
Speaker 1: to you, they're they're consultants to you. There are all
Speaker 1: those kinds of things. But you make the decisions. So
Speaker 1: I wonder how as it all unfolds, the Aj Green
Speaker 1: that we all know and love. I wonder how how
Speaker 1: this is going to impact him, and there's decisions that
Speaker 1: he makes down the road. If in fact, he does
Speaker 1: get tagged, which I think is probably going to happen
Speaker 1: to me, it seems like tagging him and trading him
Speaker 1: might be more realistic than tagging him and holding on
Speaker 1: to him for one more year and hoping that he
Speaker 1: plays well, and then resigning him. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: the Bengals haven't shared their thoughts on that with any
Speaker 1: of us, but you could see a scenario where he's
Speaker 1: tagged and plays for another year and hopefully that sends
Speaker 1: everything back in the right direction. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: just keep going back to the thing that the wise
Speaker 1: old Paul Brown said, you don't trade a guy until
Speaker 1: you have a guy you know they can do it
Speaker 1: at least as well or better. They don't. They don't,
Speaker 1: So in my mind, I tag him to see if
Speaker 1: you know things can be worked out. You know who
Speaker 1: knows that. I guess you're hoping against hope a little bit.
Speaker 1: But to trade him when you have nobody on your
Speaker 1: roster that is close to what he gave you when
Speaker 1: he was AJ Green. That's the big thing. Nobody knows,
Speaker 1: you know, what is what's the new AJ Green? He
Speaker 1: doesn't know. He doesn't know what his new hundred percent is.
Speaker 1: So if he doesn't know, nobody else knows, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: So it is. It's a but even a even an
Speaker 1: eighty five percent AJ Green pretty damn special, because that
Speaker 1: guy is elite. I mean he he's is smooth and
Speaker 1: gifted and fluid an athlete has I've ever seen on
Speaker 1: any sport. Really, he does his job as effortlessly and easily.
Speaker 1: He's one of those guys where, oh man, he looks
Speaker 1: makes it look so easy and you know it's not.
Speaker 1: But he is so gifted. He makes it look like
Speaker 1: rolling out of bed, and it's far from that. It's
Speaker 1: just the opposite of that. So I don't I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily move him unless I have to, because I don't
Speaker 1: have anybody that can give me what he can give me.
Speaker 1: When it's aj Green Underrated Story of the Year, it's
Speaker 1: Week seventeen, it's Game sixteen, Tyler Eiford, We're playing every
Speaker 1: game this year. It is big, and I think, and
Speaker 1: this is something that AJ Green I think has to
Speaker 1: think about too, because the Bengals have Nick Cosgray is good.
Speaker 1: He knows what he's doing. And Nick Cosgray knows AJ
Speaker 1: Green's history, he knows his body. Look what he did
Speaker 1: for Tyler Eifford, many many rehabs. I mean, Tyler Eifford
Speaker 1: has spent more time with Dick Cosgary than any family
Speaker 1: member friend or anything. So to me, I honestly believe
Speaker 1: that part of your process when you're deciding, like Andrew,
Speaker 1: we're worth in the Rams full court press on Tyler Eiffort. Well,
Speaker 1: the Rams don't know Tyler Eiffort's medical history. The Bengals
Speaker 1: and Nick Cosgray do. Aj To me, that would be
Speaker 1: a factor. They they these guys here in Cincinnati know
Speaker 1: everything that I've gone through and reasons that that has
Speaker 1: happened this way, and to turn you back on all
Speaker 1: of that, I think is a little bit of a
Speaker 1: tough thing to do. So to me, that's that's the
Speaker 1: edge the Bengals do get and and the tipebreak they
Speaker 1: do get. Is that the history between the athlete and
Speaker 1: the and the rehab people, the training, all the you know,
Speaker 1: strength and conditions, everything that they were part of, I
Speaker 1: think is a factor. It would be for me, you know,
Speaker 1: and go somewhere and hey, how you doing so? And
Speaker 1: so you know, here's all my medical history. You know,
Speaker 1: all that is his pictures and all that. It's like
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl. The pictures tell you one thing, but
Speaker 1: you don't know. You haven't deal with the people like
Speaker 1: these guys have for years now for Tyler Eiffort and
Speaker 1: unfortunately years now, for not as many years, but years
Speaker 1: now for Aj Green. To me, there's something to that.
Speaker 1: And I don't know how big a factor it would
Speaker 1: be in AJ's decision making process, but I know it
Speaker 1: was a factor in Tyler's decision making process. You know.
Speaker 1: He's phrased it as the Bengal stood by me in
Speaker 1: the tough times and they let me do the rehab
Speaker 1: and all that, and they paid me the whole time.
Speaker 1: Same thing with Aj Green and Tyler Eiffort decided to stay.
Speaker 1: Maybe Aj Green will look at it similarly to the
Speaker 1: way Tyler Eiffort looked at it. Sometimes for a guy,
Speaker 1: all it takes is an opportunity. Last week, Darius Phillips
Speaker 1: wound up getting a lot of snaps because Will Jackson
Speaker 1: hurt his shoulder. He had an interception and three pass
Speaker 1: deflections after taking over at cornerback. They liked him, you know,
Speaker 1: as a cornerback, and they also liked his return skills
Speaker 1: and he's shown that right away. Darren Simmons really feels
Speaker 1: good about him back there returning kicks. At first, he
Speaker 1: was a little bit unsure about his hands, you know,
Speaker 1: securing the football the number one requirement. But man, he
Speaker 1: makes plays. The guy has got a nose for the football.
Speaker 1: He reads routes well, he gets his head turned to
Speaker 1: find the football. He seems to not have issues in
Speaker 1: that regard. Two interceptions in an abbreviated season. I mean
Speaker 1: he hasn't played that many football games, a little bit
Speaker 1: more than half the season, if I'm not mistaken, And
Speaker 1: he's got more interceptions than any cornerback has on the team.
Speaker 1: He's got the two interceptions and Jesse Bates has three.
Speaker 1: So Darius Phillips, when opportunity knocked, he has taken advantage
Speaker 1: of his snaps. And one of his you know, interceptions,
Speaker 1: was a huge play. I mean he took that sucker
Speaker 1: back twenty seven yards good field positions. So again, when
Speaker 1: he gets his hands on the ball, those return skills.
Speaker 1: You know, in my mind, at some point in time,
Speaker 1: he was probably pretty good running back at some level
Speaker 1: of football because he has great instincts in space. Two
Speaker 1: teams that have had very disappointing seasons will end the
Speaker 1: season on Sunday at Paul Brown Stadium. We know about
Speaker 1: the Bengals one and fourteen. The Brown's a disappointment largely
Speaker 1: because of the expectations going into this season. They were
Speaker 1: on the cover of Sports Illustrated. They were everybody's eight team.
Speaker 1: It seemed, well, they're gonna finish with a worse record
Speaker 1: this year than they did last year. They were seven
Speaker 1: eight and one last year. They're six and nine this
Speaker 1: year with one game to go, surprising a lot of people.
Speaker 1: But it just goes to show you the chemistry counts.
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about that. By all accounts, Nick Chubb
Speaker 1: is quiet, professional, team oriented, So I think that it's
Speaker 1: not an accident that he's got fourteen hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: three rushing yards. He just shuts up and does his
Speaker 1: job over five yards to carry eight touchdowns. I bet
Speaker 1: with Baker Mayfield everybody else not Huddles Charpen. Come on, Baker,
Speaker 1: I want the ball. I want the ball. What's going on?
Speaker 1: You know? Landry pro bowler eightyone catches over thousand yards
Speaker 1: five touchdowns. Odell Beckham Junior has been the center of
Speaker 1: many controversies. You know, Baker Mayfield calling throwing the training
Speaker 1: staff under the bus with respect to Baker, with respect
Speaker 1: to Odell Beckham Junior, an injury that was misdiagnosed and
Speaker 1: mistreated or whatever. I just think that too many big egos,
Speaker 1: you know, in that huddle. I think there's a tug
Speaker 1: of war for the football and Baker Mayfield. I think
Speaker 1: therefore fields pressure to distribute to football equally amongst all
Speaker 1: parties instead of just reading things out and playing football.
Speaker 1: Bottom line is it's it's not working. You know. I
Speaker 1: remember in the best team I ever played on, in
Speaker 1: the huddle, we had great players. You know, you look
Speaker 1: as Isaac Curtis, as Kenny Anderson's Danny Ross. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's Chris Collinsworth. When it was third and eight, it
Speaker 1: wasn't like Kenny, I need the ball. It was like
Speaker 1: what play we're gonna call? How are we going to
Speaker 1: get this first down? It wasn't about imy, It was
Speaker 1: about we us. And that's the way it's always going
Speaker 1: to be. With the teams that have great success, teams
Speaker 1: that struggle, it's im stuff. Last thing, how is Christmas
Speaker 1: with the grandkids? Phenomenal? Yeah? That was great. You know
Speaker 1: they're uh they're they're at the perfect age, the perfect
Speaker 1: age and uh yeah, so they met they talked with
Speaker 1: Santa and uh my granddaughter, you know, said, um, hell,
Speaker 1: your your reindeer really don't like cookies, do they? Santa
Speaker 1: Claus was no, but I like cookies a lot, so
Speaker 1: had to be cookies. And then she said, well what
Speaker 1: about carrots for the reindeer? And he said that would
Speaker 1: be perfect. So c squared cookies and carrots and Grandpa
Speaker 1: take a bite out of one of those carrots to
Speaker 1: make it look realistic. Oh yeah, there were, there were,
Speaker 1: There were signs made. Gabby, thanks very much for you know,
Speaker 1: the cookies and cart you know, Santa Santa wrote, wrote
Speaker 1: a nice little message, nice little sign left on the
Speaker 1: on the fireplace. Yeah, it was all good stuff. Down
Speaker 1: time for this week's No the Faux segment, as we
Speaker 1: take a closer look at the Cleveland brown It's a
Speaker 1: team that beat the Bengals twenty seven to nineteen just
Speaker 1: three games ago. We're joined by Zach Jackson, who covers
Speaker 1: the Browns for The Athletic and expect Sunday's game at
Speaker 1: Paul Brown Stadium to be Freddie Kitchen's final game as
Speaker 1: Cleveland's head coach. Well, I know what it looks like,
Speaker 1: I know what it feels like. We do this every
Speaker 1: other year, and you know if we'd have had this
Speaker 1: conversation even at Thanksgiving, which isn't that long ago, right,
Speaker 1: it's Christmas. I just said no, like this is just
Speaker 1: too much, too soon for a lot of people. A
Speaker 1: lot of little things went wrong, Like they're not going
Speaker 1: to do this again. Chasms have only owned the team
Speaker 1: for seven years and two months, right, but they're gonna
Speaker 1: do it. Freddie has not helped themselves at all. The
Speaker 1: game mismanagement, the overall presentation is awful, and it's just
Speaker 1: one thing after another. He lost five games by double
Speaker 1: digit points, you know, absolutely blown out three times, and
Speaker 1: then just going back to less Sunday, the sequence where
Speaker 1: you just don't have any feel for the situation and
Speaker 1: you let the Ravens, the hottest team in the league,
Speaker 1: go from having a miserable half where you flowed them
Speaker 1: down and made them struggle like few teams have, taking
Speaker 1: control of the game and winning it. And that's just
Speaker 1: the kind of management that gets you beat and if not,
Speaker 1: something that's going to be fixed. So yeah, I'll be
Speaker 1: shocked if Freddie's still the coach next Monday. Okay, as
Speaker 1: a follow up to that, there's rumor out there about
Speaker 1: Urban Meyer. You know, I don't know if urban Meyer's
Speaker 1: family would allow him to get back into coaching with
Speaker 1: his health the way it is and all the issues
Speaker 1: to go along with that. How about this off the waller,
Speaker 1: Marvin Lewis completes his AFC North in Cleveland. He's coached
Speaker 1: everywhere else but Cleveland, and when you think about it,
Speaker 1: part of a successful run in Pittsburgh, won a Super
Speaker 1: Bowl in Baltimore as defense according to the best defense ever,
Speaker 1: fewest points allowed in the sixteen game, stretching with Cincinnati,
Speaker 1: five straight Division A, five straight playoff appearances, a team
Speaker 1: record seven playoffs in sixteen years. Would Mark and Lewis
Speaker 1: be a potential candidate in Cleveland? Well, I think someone
Speaker 1: like Marvin would make sense. If Marvin's going to guys
Speaker 1: to be adults, right, you need somebody who's done it before.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a pretty appealing job now with
Speaker 1: the way the quarterback has struggled, and you know, just
Speaker 1: some of the overall immaturity issues, some of the things
Speaker 1: you're going to have to tackle here. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's not a wonderful job. There are huge questions, and
Speaker 1: especially if you know they're firing guys in one year again.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, the Browns has just they have
Speaker 1: just not been adults, from head coach to player all
Speaker 1: year long. It's just been one side show, one distraction,
Speaker 1: one immature, slash, embarrassing or all the above thing after
Speaker 1: the other lap. And it goes back to last year
Speaker 1: when they finally won the games, but they acted like
Speaker 1: they'd won fifteen of them, you know, and it just
Speaker 1: it kind of took off on that train. So you know,
Speaker 1: I won't be surprised if Marvin Get's interviews, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, where he is, what he's thinking, or or
Speaker 1: you know who all is going to be in the pool.
Speaker 1: As for urban Meyer, you know, urban Meyer's a football
Speaker 1: coach in a darn good one. Would he fit in
Speaker 1: the NFL um with, you know, because some of the
Speaker 1: things that he was best at an exceptional at in
Speaker 1: college are just not an NFL thing. And specifically here
Speaker 1: in Cleveland, I'm not sure urban Meyer and Got Dorsey
Speaker 1: co exists, you know, just like I'm not sure Josh
Speaker 1: McDaniels and John Dorsey co exists. So you know, I
Speaker 1: think that kind of limits the pool, assuming there's an
Speaker 1: opening starting next week. So in your mind Baker and
Speaker 1: Mayfield's sophomore slump. To put it kindly, is it because
Speaker 1: of Baker Mayfield? Because of too many egos for him
Speaker 1: to appease in terms of wanting the football? There's only
Speaker 1: one football, is it? Freddie Kitchens? Is it a combination
Speaker 1: of everything? Why is Baker Mayfield having the sophomore season
Speaker 1: he's having. Yeah, combination is the answer. He certainly takes
Speaker 1: to nurse some of the blands. There's just been no
Speaker 1: flow to the offense. You know, um route to get
Speaker 1: to get Baker going. Um. You know, Nick Chubb's gonna
Speaker 1: win the rushing title and might lead in attempts, but
Speaker 1: it still feels like they never really stuck to that.
Speaker 1: And Bakers are really good and they play action in
Speaker 1: rpo quarterback, but they're just a whole year long, every drive,
Speaker 1: every quarter kind of felt this jointed. It never felt
Speaker 1: like the Brown said, Okay, this is what we're gonna
Speaker 1: do and this is what we're good at, and if
Speaker 1: and when teams stop it or just do it, then
Speaker 1: then we strike at him. But going back to training camp,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, guys, Bakers through some of the most
Speaker 1: beautiful deep passes that I had seen and I just thought,
Speaker 1: you know, once this offense does figure out if tiece things,
Speaker 1: they're gonna tack, But there has been no vertical tasking game.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's sitting at six yards per tempt underneath it,
Speaker 1: I believe, and that just doesn't get it done. So
Speaker 1: I'm not totally writing him off because even in a
Speaker 1: small sample size that we have seen it, and we
Speaker 1: know that the reason the Browns picked him and believed
Speaker 1: in him is because of his accuracy and accuracy to
Speaker 1: me is king you know in today's NFL. But he
Speaker 1: has not been accurate, He has not played with his
Speaker 1: normal level of confidence, and as much as anything else,
Speaker 1: just then this goes to the accuracy, you know, just
Speaker 1: the six and eight yard passes that are in the
Speaker 1: right place that gives the guy a chance to get
Speaker 1: more yardage, let alone a lot more yardage. Right, we
Speaker 1: know jameson O'Dell are the kind of guys they can
Speaker 1: take that ten yard pass and turn it into thirty
Speaker 1: or ninety or we've seen the number of times we've
Speaker 1: seen it all year long. You can really count on
Speaker 1: one hand. We are visiting with Zack Jackson, he covers
Speaker 1: the Browns for the athletic. You can follow him on
Speaker 1: Twitter at Akron Jackson. The Browns have had a lot
Speaker 1: of head scratching things happen this year, from the Miles
Speaker 1: Garrett helmets swinging incident to the guy that got caught
Speaker 1: after death threats on Twitter. Explain this one to me Zach.
Speaker 1: Last week in their loss to the Ravens, Sheldon richards
Speaker 1: And gets a fifteen yard penalty during an injury time
Speaker 1: out because he refused to leave the opponent's sideline when
Speaker 1: the officials told him too. Is that accurate? The six
Speaker 1: wain Cleveland Browns got two fifteen yard penalties off but
Speaker 1: Bell taunting after a routine catch and runs and one
Speaker 1: for yes, refusing to leave an area during an injury
Speaker 1: timeout they got. The Browns used the time out on
Speaker 1: fourth down before ultimately deciding to punt early in the
Speaker 1: game and then late in the game. Yes, we're assessed
Speaker 1: the fifteen yard penalty during an injury timeout. It's the
Speaker 1: story of the year. You can't make it up. So
Speaker 1: Freddie got himself in a little pinch with the Pittsburgh
Speaker 1: started at sweater. Do you think he'll come to Cincinnati
Speaker 1: in a good Christmas sweater or what do you think
Speaker 1: he's gonna wear? Oh man, Yeah, it's we laugh because
Speaker 1: it's it's been that all along. I mean, this team
Speaker 1: is all on Instagram with how they dressed in their accessories,
Speaker 1: their headphones and their watches and all these things. Then
Speaker 1: hewear's that T shirt? You know? I just laughed when
Speaker 1: we talked about it on the podcast. Like the Ravens
Speaker 1: are in this historic win streak and Lamar spotted in
Speaker 1: a T shirt that says nobody cares work harder? Right,
Speaker 1: the Browns are the disappointment of the league, and Freddie
Speaker 1: spotted at the movie theater where in a pen Bridge
Speaker 1: started a T shirt Like, what's the difference than organizations?
Speaker 1: Will let's start there right right? Is the overwhelming feeling
Speaker 1: this year in Cleveland of opportunity lost? I mean, the
Speaker 1: Steelers lose Roethlisberger at the beginning of the season. The
Speaker 1: Bengals are in rebuild mode this year. There's obviously a
Speaker 1: lot of talent on the Browns, maybe not as much
Speaker 1: as people thought, But is that the vibe that they
Speaker 1: had a great opportunity and just botched it? Yeah? Absolutely, Dan,
Speaker 1: I mean they have arguably the win of the year.
Speaker 1: They beat the Ravens sixteen point. You know in Baltimore,
Speaker 1: the Ravens fans left that game with eight minutes left.
Speaker 1: Order on the final score is yeah, yeah, and you're right,
Speaker 1: like that is one of the things we kind of do.
Speaker 1: The apocy is was there as much talent, but no
Speaker 1: doubt it's opportunity loss because the Steelers lost for Roethlisberger.
Speaker 1: Even you know, going back three weeks to the second
Speaker 1: Brown Steelers, if the Browns just win that game, then
Speaker 1: they're in the wild card hunt and they lose the
Speaker 1: Duck Hodges, right, So yeah, yeah, they just like I said,
Speaker 1: they just never established that flow. And even when they
Speaker 1: started to play better in mid October through mid November,
Speaker 1: which is when good teams get good. And that's fine,
Speaker 1: you lots of teams historically have erased slow or puzzling starts, right,
Speaker 1: they just never could get to that next step offensively.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you this, even going back and I
Speaker 1: mentioned this earlier to the summer, when I saw I
Speaker 1: saw this coming a little bit, I didn't like to vibe.
Speaker 1: I didn't like the maturity yet like all that stuff.
Speaker 1: I just thought, well, they're gonna have enough offense that
Speaker 1: they're gonna be able to steal a game or two
Speaker 1: along the way and then eventually they'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: But they haven't. You know, they have not. The Ravens
Speaker 1: have not lost in their stadium that day, and the
Speaker 1: Browns haven't won a road game since. And it's just
Speaker 1: that's what a mature team does, is you just go
Speaker 1: on the road and win. And they lost the Brandon
Speaker 1: Allen in Denver, who was making his first NFL start,
Speaker 1: and they lost the Duck Hodges in Pittsburgh. And we
Speaker 1: all know Duck Hodges is an undrafted record. So watching
Speaker 1: tape getting ready for the first matchup with Cleveland, I thought,
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield, like, I think your point about never established
Speaker 1: an identity is right on, because to me, it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well I got the bottle Landry, I better get it
Speaker 1: to Beckham because he's gonna be he's gonna be pissed
Speaker 1: if I don't job I get Oh, I better get
Speaker 1: it to Hunt too. It's like, instead of just reading
Speaker 1: out plays and playing offense, he's like trying to you know,
Speaker 1: be the you know, the bargainer and divide a football
Speaker 1: four ways when there's only one football. It's like he
Speaker 1: seemed to be almost hindered by you know, too many,
Speaker 1: too many guys to try to get the football too.
Speaker 1: Is there anything to that? Yeah, I think a little bit,
Speaker 1: But I just think it's missed opportunities. You know, the
Speaker 1: first three weeks that Hunt came back, they were averaging
Speaker 1: seven yards of play with those two on the field together,
Speaker 1: you know, because he and just don't see it anymore.
Speaker 1: And then teams adjusted and the story as they got
Speaker 1: too cute. They're playing them together because almost like they
Speaker 1: know that, but then they're splitting them out. Like Nick
Speaker 1: Chubb is one of the three most gifted running backs
Speaker 1: in the league. What good is he doing over they're
Speaker 1: standing next to the Ravens sideline in a five wide formation?
Speaker 1: Are doing you know good? Put him in the backfield
Speaker 1: and give him the ball. You know. David Najoku, who
Speaker 1: is not a promising guy, but he is a first
Speaker 1: round player and his player that needed to develop has
Speaker 1: had a completely lost season. He had the injuries, and
Speaker 1: now he's been a healthy scratch. Rashard Higgins, who is
Speaker 1: not a physically gifted receiver, but it is a really
Speaker 1: one with Baker Mayfield that they really developed in Baker's
Speaker 1: first training camp has fallen totally out of the rotation.
Speaker 1: He refused to own a game he played. He caught
Speaker 1: the winning touchdown when they beat Buffalo, which is obviously
Speaker 1: a good win, but he has not even played more
Speaker 1: than five offensive snap since then. So it's just when
Speaker 1: I say disjointed lap, I'm actually not doing it justice.
Speaker 1: It's what you said with where the ball goes. It's
Speaker 1: what you said with where the ball is supposed to go.
Speaker 1: It's who's on the field, it's who's mad on the field,
Speaker 1: it's just everything, and it's just been maddening. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: you just it comes back to the overall team of
Speaker 1: this is a last year, because even if they would
Speaker 1: have just been a little bit better offensively and established
Speaker 1: a couple of things, then they could be playing for
Speaker 1: the playoffs now and they'd be the type of team
Speaker 1: with those two running backs that could really play with
Speaker 1: just about anybody in January. But instead it's just been
Speaker 1: off the field disasters and more disappointments and probably another
Speaker 1: coaching search. My final question for Zach Jackson, who covers
Speaker 1: the Browns for the Athletic Who and Who earlier in
Speaker 1: this interview, said he would not be surprised if Marvin
Speaker 1: Lewis got an interview to be the head coach of
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browl. Yes, I remember correctly, Zach that you
Speaker 1: are on the Josh McDaniels bandwagon. Is that would that
Speaker 1: be your first guy to talk to? Well? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just think because he definitely likes Baker. I mean, Baker's
Speaker 1: on the record saying that he thought he would be
Speaker 1: drafted by the Patriots Matthew Brown. Josh is a Northeast
Speaker 1: Ohio native, and Josh has been a head coach before,
Speaker 1: and he knows he's only getting one more chance. And
Speaker 1: I just think that checks a lot of boxes. I mean,
Speaker 1: of all this, Odell say, ergo, you know what happens
Speaker 1: with these two running backs who are a year or
Speaker 1: two up from their contracts. You know what is Miles
Speaker 1: Garrett's future, all this uncertainty. Baker's going to be here, right,
Speaker 1: You just drafted him number one two years ago. You
Speaker 1: need him to be good or you're going to be
Speaker 1: screwed again. So I just think that guy, as I
Speaker 1: look at the list, is the one that I would
Speaker 1: sit down with try to hammer out whatever differences, try
Speaker 1: to figure out you know where he is and what
Speaker 1: he thinks about this team and see if you could
Speaker 1: make it work, because I think he would come in
Speaker 1: with an all weather offense, with an understanding of what
Speaker 1: it takes to help the quarterback get to the next level,
Speaker 1: and you know really probably also and still some discipline.
Speaker 1: It's a team that for much of the year led
Speaker 1: the league and penalties by a wide margin. They've cleaned
Speaker 1: that up a little bit. But then we were just
Speaker 1: laughing about the fifteen yard or Durny injury time out.
Speaker 1: We laugh because we don't want to cry here. Finally,
Speaker 1: with Baker Mayfield, I mean, I know, I know the personality,
Speaker 1: the you know, the big personnel that fills a room
Speaker 1: as an attraction to Baker Mayfield, but when he threw
Speaker 1: the training staff under the bus, you know, with Beckham
Speaker 1: and saying a little bit too much. Obviously, Josh McDaniel
Speaker 1: is used to Tom Brady, you know, like and do
Speaker 1: you think Josh McDaniel or whoever the next head coach
Speaker 1: is is going to sit down with Baker Mayfield and say, hey, bro,
Speaker 1: how about editing, how about a little zipper action? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think so, I think, you know, I think it's
Speaker 1: all cute, and it's Baker is a wonderful story. Right,
Speaker 1: I've always been doubted and it's all great when it's
Speaker 1: going well. Well, this is the first time Texas Tech
Speaker 1: that he's faced any adversity and it's all not so cute, right,
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think he needs to grow up.
Speaker 1: I think organizationally, they need to grow up. And we'll see.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is about Baker Mayfield. This is about
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, Baker Mayfield being better in Baker Mayfield
Speaker 1: being the right guy, because that gives whoever the coaches
Speaker 1: and whoever the other guys are who we all know
Speaker 1: in this league are very dispensable and there will be
Speaker 1: tons to turn over. Baker's got to be the guy
Speaker 1: for the Browns will eventually get to where they're playing
Speaker 1: this game, to get to January and playing in January
Speaker 1: rather than having a coaching search every January, thanks to
Speaker 1: Zach Jackson. And that's going to do it for this
Speaker 1: episode of the podcast. If you haven't done so already,
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe, And if you have a minute,
Speaker 1: give it a rating or share a comment. Those five
Speaker 1: star ratings help more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Dan Horde and thanks for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast.